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Diane Downs and Old Mohawk Road Part 1 — Transcript

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0:02Welcome back to Shadows in the Pines
0:04with your hosts Dan and Becca.
0:09Hey there folks. This episode of Shadows
0:11in the Pines is brought to you by Crime
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0:56>> Hey there listeners. Before we begin,
0:59please be advised that the following
1:01episode may contain discussions of
1:03violence, sexual assault, abuse, murder,
1:07and crimes against children. Some of the
1:10details described may be graphic,
1:13disturbing, emotionally overwhelming, or
1:16triggering for certain listeners.
1:19Please take care of yourself while
1:21listening. Make sure you're in the right
1:23headsp space before continuing and know
1:26that it's always okay to pause the
1:28episode, skip it entirely, or come back
1:31another time. Your mental well-being
1:34will always matter more than the show.
1:37Listener discretion is strongly advised.
1:41Lane County, Oregon, is beautiful in a
1:44way that can feel almost isolating once
1:47the sun goes down.
1:48The roads outside Springfield start
1:50thinning out into long dark stretches
1:53bordered by trees. Gravel pulloffs, old
1:57fences, patches of field disappearing
1:59into blackness. At night, headlights
2:03become their own little world out there.
2:06You stop seeing towns, stop seeing
2:08people. Eventually, it's just road,
2:12darkness, and whatever happens to be
2:15sitting in front of you inside the car.
2:18And on the night of May 19th, 1983,
2:21one car moved through that darkness,
2:24carrying three children home. An
2:268-year-old girl, a 7-year-old girl, a
2:30three-year-old little boy. By the end of
2:33the night, one of those children would
2:35be dead. The other two would barely
2:38survive. And a story told on a dark
2:41rural road outside Springfield would
2:44divide investigators, reporters, and the
2:47entire country for years afterward.
2:50Because almost immediately, the case
2:53stopped feeling simple. The interviews
2:56felt strange. The details kept shifting.
3:00And somewhere underneath the media
3:02attention, the courtroom footage, and
3:05the arguments people still have about
3:07this case decades later, there were
3:10still three children trapped inside a
3:12car on old Mohawk Road with nowhere to
3:15go. And even now, all these years later,
3:19people still go back to that road trying
3:22to figure out what really happened there
3:24that night.
3:48Hey baby.
3:51Heat. Heat.
4:26I don't know. A lot of people when
4:29something traumatic happens to them,
4:31they suppress it immediately. I kept
4:34those memories because I knew that I was
4:37the only person that was going to be
4:38able to tell them what happened when we
4:39got to the hospital. And when I got
4:41there, the first thing I said was, "Call
4:43the doctor." Second thing was the blood
4:45type. Third thing was call the cops
4:47because they've got to they've got to
4:49find him. And so I had to remember as
4:52much as I could remember. When this man
4:55shot my daughter, my first reaction was
4:57to snap back to my childhood to the pain
5:00that had happened to me back then, my
5:03marriage, my entrapment by society. This
5:06man was bigger than me. He was stronger
5:07than me. He had more power because he
5:09had a gun. He was in control and I was
5:12not. And I had there was nothing I could
5:14do. And I stood there and I looked at
5:16Christy reaching and the blood that just
5:20kept gushing out of her mouth and and I
5:24what do you do?
5:26>> You just stand there trapped and then
5:29and then the gun kept firing and firing
5:31and firing and it it it made it was
5:34monotonous. It just kept going. It was
5:36like a slow motion picture.
5:40And then he swung around towards me and
5:42I and this is something that I did not
5:44recall when I was explaining to the cops
5:47because there it was it wasn't like a
5:49movie when I was telling him. I was
5:50telling them what happened the important
5:52details. He shot my kids. I pushed him.
5:53I ran and when he swung around, he was
5:57pointing when he swung around. It hit
5:59the tips of my fingers. The gun hit the
6:01tips of my fingers and that snapped me
6:02and I went, "Wait a minute. I'm not
6:05trapped by society. I don't care if he
6:07is bigger. If I stand here and I say,
6:11"Yeah, here. Take the keys. I mean,
6:13there's nothing I can do. You win
6:14because you have the gun. My kids are
6:16going to die." And I'm not going to let
6:19my kids die. And so, instead of giving
6:21him the keys, I fainted throwing the
6:24keys.
6:26He did not take time to point the gun
6:28and shoot me, obviously, because he
6:30would have shot me the same way he did
6:31the kids. When he was swinging in the
6:34direction of the keys, firing the gun,
6:36he hit my arm.
6:39Everybody says you sure were lucky.
6:41Well, I don't feel very lucky. I
6:43couldn't tie my damn shoes for about two
6:45months. It is very painful. It is still
6:47painful. I have a steel plate on my arm.
6:49I will for a year and a half. The the
6:52scar is going to be there forever. I'm
6:54going to remember that night for the
6:55rest of my life whether I want to or
6:56not. I don't think I was very lucky. I
6:59think my kids were lucky. If I had been
7:01shot the way they were, we all would
7:02have died.
7:05>> I don't know.
7:06A lot of people when something dramatic
7:09happens to them, they suppress it
7:10immediately.
7:11>> What continues to play.
7:15>> And what we just listened to
7:17>> is a clip of
7:20Diane DS
7:23>> kind of recounting
7:25how her and her children were attacked
7:30on this night.
7:32It's
7:33>> now
7:33>> that's crazy.
7:36Whether or not you believe her story,
7:39what you clearly hear in this interview
7:42>> is that her children are shot.
7:44>> Correct.
7:46>> And what is concerning for her is that
7:50she wasn't able to tie her shoes for two
7:52months.
7:54>> Not not that her children were shot.
7:57>> And the whole interview is so [ __ ]
8:01batshit [ __ ] crazy.
8:03like she like you're telling me like
8:05like the this guy this bushyhaired
8:07stranger is firing at you and your
8:09children
8:10>> over and over again monotonously she
8:13says
8:14>> yeah yeah
8:15>> and yeah she has all this time to think
8:17like oh wait I'm not a victim of society
8:21>> I wouldn't think that you're getting
8:23shot at you wouldn't think that I would
8:24think oh my god my kids I need to
8:26protect them
8:29>> now
8:31that's just a taste
8:34That that's just like the uh shaku.
8:38>> Oh yeah, there you go.
8:39>> of this entire thing because she goes on
8:41Oprah. She's on [ __ ] Donnie Hugh.
8:44>> She gives a lot of interviews.
8:47>> Oh, cuz this was in the 80s. Yeah.
8:49>> Story kind of changes here and there.
8:52Mostly stays the same.
8:54>> Yeah.
8:55>> And she maintains it the entire time.
8:57But
8:58>> Mhm. Uh,
9:00we're going to talk about this case.
9:02>> It just sounds so bizarre
9:04>> because this happens in Oregon.
9:06>> Oh,
9:07>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
9:08>> Oh, yeah. I said that. Yeah. Lane
9:09County, yeah.
9:10>> Yep.
9:11>> Oh my god. All I can think of is she's
9:14not crying.
9:16>> No.
9:16>> In that,
9:17>> right?
9:18>> I
9:19>> It's [ __ ] weird.
9:21>> Yeah. I would be so inconsolable if
9:24someone were to do that to my kids.
9:25Listen, after you guys listen to uh this
9:28case,
9:30>> go to Tik Tok or YouTube and watch some
9:33of the interviews. Like
9:36>> she goes on Oprah and she gets into it
9:40on like on the Oprah show with [ __ ]
9:43Ann Rule.
9:44>> What?
9:45>> Yeah.
9:46>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Ann Rule like
9:48basically puts her in her place.
9:51>> I want to go watch it now.
9:53>> It's [ __ ] hilarious.
9:56So, listen before we start, I don't
9:58know,
9:59>> like I know what I said last time
10:02>> that we were going to take a break from
10:03doing the multi-part episodes,
10:06>> but this one is crazy and it's super
10:08long
10:09>> and
10:10we either do a two-hour show or we split
10:13it in two. So, we'll see how we feel.
10:15>> Yeah, let's see how we feel.
10:18And uh yeah, if it goes to
10:22>> I'll put the the Ann rule
10:26>> versus Diane Bounds on Oprah
10:30>> clip
10:32in the next episode.
10:36>> Oh god.
10:37>> Oh.
10:38>> So this basically just love this b this
10:40lady basically just loves attention.
10:43Okay.
10:44>> Okay. That's the little preamble.
10:47>> She loves attention. Okay, I'll remember
10:49that
10:49>> preamble to the case. But before we get
10:51started, holy [ __ ] we're [ __ ] so
10:54close to Crime Con.
10:55>> I know.
10:56>> We're so close to Crime Con.
10:58>> I know. I'm so excited.
11:01>> It's
11:02>> going to be absolutely [ __ ] amazing.
11:05>> Mhm.
11:06>> Can you even believe it?
11:07>> I know.
11:08>> All the people that are going to be
11:09there.
11:09>> I know. I am so excited.
11:10>> I can't even think of one of them off
11:12the top of my head. No, I'm
11:13>> Paul is on.
11:14>> Oh my god. I'm just going to be like the
11:18whole entire time like, "Hey, did you
11:19see that person?" You know,
11:20>> fangirling.
11:21>> Yes.
11:22>> That's awesome.
11:23>> Yes, that's what I'll be doing.
11:24>> Hell yeah. It's uh your birthday is two
11:28days away.
11:29>> Yes. Yes, it is. And then your
11:30>> Crime Con's three.
11:33We We leave in three days.
11:34>> Uhhuh. And then what happens?
11:36>> And then And then it's my birthday.
11:40>> Yes.
11:40>> And [ __ ] yeah. It'll be a good time.
11:42>> Yeah, it's going to be awesome.
11:44>> There are worst ways to spend your 50th
11:46birthday.
11:48>> Behind bars, I think, would be bad. Like
11:50jail bars. Not like Yeah.
11:52>> No. If you're you need to be in front of
11:54the bar.
11:55>> Yeah.
11:57>> And not on the bar. This is not coyote
11:59ugly.
12:00>> No.
12:01>> No.
12:02>> So,
12:04yes, we're very excited about that. Mhm.
12:06>> Let's talk about this uh this insane
12:10>> This lady's [ __ ] crazy.
12:14>> Yeah.
12:15>> So,
12:16>> from what I saw on the
12:17>> Yeah, she's
12:20Yeah.
12:20>> Mhm.
12:21>> Uh
12:25yeah. Oh, you'll see. It's [ __ ]
12:30>> I can barely I can barely get started
12:32because she's so [ __ ] wacky. like
12:36the the thoughts are uh going faster
12:38than my mouth can.
12:40>> Oh, okay. I know. I totally get that.
12:42Yeah.
12:43>> Let me take a deep breath.
12:45>> Yeah.
12:48>> And we'll begin.
12:51All right. So, we're talking about Diane
12:52DS this week.
12:53>> Mhm. This happens in Oregon, but before
12:57uh Oregon ever enters the picture,
13:00before this awful, awful shooting
13:03>> and before any of these interviews that
13:06people do remember because this was
13:08huge.
13:09>> I wish I could remember. I
13:12>> It must not have been on my radar. Do
13:13you know what I mean?
13:14>> Yeah. Uh before any of that, her early
13:19life is already complicated enough that
13:22investigators later spend years trying
13:24to figure out what parts of Diane were
13:26real and what parts were basically
13:28performance
13:31>> because
13:32>> that's messed up.
13:33>> Mhm. Because people did not walk away
13:36from her with one consistent impression.
13:41Like like even years before the case,
13:44some people thought she was warm and
13:45funny and outgoing. Other people thought
13:48she could be manipulative and
13:50emotionally cold. And then other people
13:53described her as deeply insecure
13:55underneath everything else.
13:57And uh
14:00we I mean weird like it would apply to
14:02anybody really, but weirdly uh
14:05all those descriptions kind of fit her
14:09depending on what period of her life
14:11that we're looking at.
14:13>> H
14:14>> if that makes sense.
14:16>> I think it'll make more sense once we
14:18find out more about her.
14:19>> Yeah. So Diane is actually born
14:22Elizabeth
14:25Diane Frederickson.
14:26>> Oh, okay. where the name comes out.
14:28>> Yeah.
14:29>> Okay.
14:30>> On August 7th, 1955 in Phoenix, Arizona,
14:35and she's the oldest of four children,
14:38uh, strict Baptist family, conservative
14:41household, very rule oriented,
14:44and, uh, of course, the more you dig
14:46into that kind of family dynamic, the
14:48more it sounds emotionally rigid, uh,
14:51kind of more than openly chaotic.
14:55Her father Wesley,
15:01>> I love that show.
15:02>> Uh,
15:04worked uh as an engineer and her mother
15:07Willadine.
15:08>> Willine.
15:09>> That's a [ __ ] hell of a name, right?
15:11Willine. It's not two. It's not Willine
15:14like Paulyine. It's Willadine.
15:16>> All one word.
15:17>> Like Beyonce.
15:24Well, it kind of sounds like a a name
15:26that you would have that beans like I
15:28take no nonsense, you know.
15:30>> Oh, yeah. For sure. I I imagine her
15:33immediately with like one of those way
15:35too tight
15:37dress type things.
15:38>> Oh. Mhm.
15:39>> Too tight around the waist. Hair too
15:42tight in a bun.
15:44>> A little high.
15:45>> Just walking around with like one of
15:47those sticks.
15:48>> Yeah.
15:48>> Slapping it against her wrist. Yeah. Or
15:51palm. Oh my god.
15:53Yeah, Willadine. Yeah, she didn't [ __ ]
15:56around.
15:57>> Oh,
15:58>> and yeah, they were heavily involved in
16:00church and uh
16:03like that old chestnut. You know how it
16:05goes. We talk about it a lot.
16:07>> We do.
16:07>> There are certain patterns and I think
16:10that in true crime there there's a lot
16:12of stereotypes in just the genre of
16:15like, okay,
16:19this killer did this, this, and this. Oh
16:21yeah, I bet he grew up in an overly
16:23religious household where his mom was
16:26strict as [ __ ] and probably watched him
16:28[ __ ]
16:29wiggle his ding-ding from from time to
16:32time. You know what I mean?
16:33>> Yeah.
16:33>> And then now that you mention you just
16:36got three out of four of them, right?
16:40>> Oh my god.
16:42>> It's true.
16:43>> It's true. Yeah.
16:44>> Don't be so strict, people.
16:47>> So yeah, let your kids live.
16:50>> Yeah. Pray the moment. Good lord.
16:52>> Anyways, we're not trying to tell you
16:54how to parent.
16:55>> No. No. God,
16:56>> you do you. And Diane will do Diane and
16:59we'll see how that works out for her.
17:01>> Yeah, I know. I want to know more.
17:04>> So, this weirdo described
17:08feeling emotionally disconnected from
17:10her parents pretty early on.
17:12And later in life, especially after this
17:15case kind of becomes national news,
17:17Diane accuses her father of sexually
17:19abusing her uh beginning around when she
17:23was 12 years old. Now, of course, her
17:26father completely denies
17:29the allegation. There's never been any
17:32kind of independent evidence proving
17:35that it happened. So, we're not going to
17:37state that it's factual. No, no,
17:40>> we're just going to say that that's what
17:42she was claiming.
17:43>> Mhm.
17:45>> Sounds convenient.
17:46>> I mean, she claims a lot of things.
17:50So,
17:52and uh she re she I mean, she kind of
17:55would
17:57really kick that [ __ ] dead horse for
17:59a while after.
18:01>> Oh, kind of like, well, this happened to
18:02me or me.
18:03>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is
18:07>> so now whether the allegations are true
18:10or not uh one thing that becomes obvious
18:13really early with Diane is that she
18:15seems desperate for validation and
18:17attention almost constantly.
18:21Now uh
18:24not necessarily affection attention.
18:28So when you start looking at her life
18:31kind of from that viewpoint, a lot of
18:33her behavior
18:35kind of starts making more sense.
18:37>> And it's not excusable by any means, but
18:40it it's a little bit easier to
18:41understand,
18:43>> right? Like a pay attention to me, see
18:45what I can do. Look what I've done.
18:46>> Right?
18:48So, uh, as a teenager, she kind of
18:51seemed to gravitate towards intensity
18:54constantly,
18:56and most of that would be, uh, attention
18:59from boys.
19:01>> Wow.
19:02>> And attention from her friends and
19:04attention from whoever really happened
19:06to be around her at the time.
19:08>> Oh, okay. Okay. Now, some of these
19:11people that went to high school with her
19:13described her as someone who could be
19:15really magnetic when she wanted to be
19:18funny, energetic, good at making people
19:21focus on her. She liked flirtation. She
19:24liked emotional reactions and she liked
19:26feeling admired.
19:30So, by the time she's
19:33late teen kind of, she's pretty much
19:36pushing hard against her parents and the
19:39environment that she's growing up in.
19:42And she stops going by Elizabeth
19:45and starts calling herself Peter
19:47McNeely.
19:50>> She may.
19:52She starts calling herself Diane.
19:54>> Oh, that's such a rebellious teenage
19:56thing to do. You know what I mean?
19:58>> Right. Yeah.
19:59>> I mean, it could have been worse, but
20:01how many years that middle name?
20:02>> I That's what I was just about to say.
20:04It's weird that uh
20:07>> because you're right. Usually, it's far
20:09more rebellious.
20:10>> Yeah. Like, call me.
20:13>> Well, I don't want to have to sign
20:15things differently.
20:17>> I'm too lazy for that.
20:19>> Just call me Diane.
20:20>> Well, just drop the first name. Yeah.
20:21>> [ __ ] you, mom.
20:25>> I always hated Elizabeth. Yeah.
20:27>> Yeah. But the point in that is that
20:30she's she's constantly trying to
20:32reinvent herself, this woman,
20:34>> like throughout her entire life, from
20:36from childhood through adulthood.
20:40She
20:41>> Oh, for the attention,
20:43>> right?
20:44>> Okay.
20:44>> I wonder if it's a syndrome.
20:46>> Oh, did you just stumble across
20:48something?
20:50>> No, I think it's got to be. Right. I'm
20:52sure that we're just not aware of it.
20:54But like someone who uh
20:56>> like the personality type where they
20:58constantly need the next thing
21:02>> like nothing's ever good enough. You
21:03know what I mean? Like
21:05>> the house and the car and the boat and
21:07all that's not good enough because now
21:08they need to go on vacation and well
21:10that place wasn't cool enough so now
21:12let's go do this. You know what I mean?
21:14>> Yeah. Something more on edge, newer
21:16oneuping.
21:17>> Yeah. So that's the type of personality
21:19she is. Oh, that just makes me sad.
21:22>> Yeah. Like what's next? What's next?
21:25>> Wow.
21:25>> Yeah. She's not your moment. She's Yeah.
21:27She's not good at living in the moment.
21:29This one.
21:30>> That kind of breaks my heart.
21:33>> Yeah. So, when she's 14,
21:38she starts dating a dude named Steve
21:42>> DS.
21:43>> And Steve's a little bit older and he
21:45lives nearby.
21:47And Diane's parents absolutely hate
21:50their relationship immediately.
21:53But what do you think that does?
21:56>> Oh, you don't like him, mom and dad? I
21:58love him.
21:59>> Yeah. It just mostly drives her closer
22:02towards him.
22:04>> Now,
22:06Steve himself is pretty much Diane's
22:08opposite in
22:11every way. He's quiet. He's steady. He's
22:14patient. He's not especially dramatic.
22:17So, when you kind of when you read about
22:19the two of them together, it kind of
22:20feels like one of those relationships
22:21where one person's constantly
22:24like the tornado and the other person's
22:26just trying to keep the [ __ ] blinds
22:29on the house and then cleaning up the
22:31mess afterwards.
22:32>> That would be so exhausting,
22:33>> right?
22:34>> Oh my god.
22:35>> Yeah. He's just trying to stabilize
22:37[ __ ]
22:38>> More power to him.
22:39>> Yeah.
22:41So, he eventually joins the Navy.
22:47>> She's kind of funny. I put up with this
22:49chaos, but now I'm going to go join the
22:50Navy where we've got rules and
22:52regulations and
22:53>> Yeah. Yeah.
22:54>> So, I totally get it.
22:55>> Right. So, now the and she heads to uh
22:58Pacific Coast Baptist Bible College in
23:00Orange County, California.
23:03>> Okay. So, they're not together.
23:07But the whole thing of her being in the
23:10Bible college falls apart really [ __ ]
23:12quickly because she only lasts around a
23:14year before the school [ __ ] kicks her
23:16out.
23:16>> They kicked her out.
23:17>> Yeah. For what administrators describe
23:19as uh promiscuous behavior.
23:23Boom. Kaboom.
23:26Well, hey there, Johnny with the
23:28glasses. You want to study under the
23:30tree?
23:39That's my very awful impression of a
23:42promiscuous woman.
23:48>> It is awful.
23:49>> It was great.
23:52My god.
23:55>> Well, Stevie Buckworm, is that a ruler
23:57in your pocket or you just happy to see
23:59me?
24:01That's a roller.
24:09Bring me out back. I got to clap these.
24:12>> Whatever the promiscuous behavior is,
24:15>> I mean, draw your own conclusions.
24:17>> It's a Bible college. You probably
24:18didn't have to do a whole lot. Yeah.
24:20>> Right. And
24:22probably some butt stuff. Who knows?
24:34You never know.
24:36>> It's Bible college. I'm saying
24:39>> and we don't we don't know. So,
24:41>> no,
24:42>> that's what we're choosing to go with on
24:43the show.
24:44>> There you go.
24:44>> You you you listeners at home can, you
24:46know, maybe something weirder. Maybe
24:48she's sitting on balloons. Who knows?
24:52>> What whatever whatever your kink is.
24:55We're not here to judge.
25:04So, she's promiscuous and they kick her
25:07out and that word ends up attached to
25:11Diane constantly. Are you okay? She's
25:15laughing so hard.
25:17>> Hey, now this is supposed to be serious.
25:19It is.
25:20>> Sorry.
25:21>> People's lives are at stake.
25:30Oh, sorry guys.
25:33>> Deep breath.
25:36>> You like the butt stuff? That was funny.
25:39>> Okay, stop it. I'm supposed to be
25:41serious right now.
25:44Okay. Poor Da. She gets kicked out
25:46because
25:47>> she's kicked out. She's being
25:49promiscuous.
25:50>> That's right. A year. Wow. Beyond that,
25:52she's also being u manipulative and
25:55seductive.
25:57>> It sounds a little
25:58>> cuz it's back in the day, you know what
25:59I mean? And these these are uptight
26:01[ __ ] old white dudes, right?
26:03>> That are like, "Oh my goodness, she's
26:05showing bare shoulder. Get her the [ __ ]
26:07out of here." So, it could have been
26:08something as simple as that. You know
26:09what I mean?
26:10>> That's true. That's true. Like, yeah.
26:14>> You know, she's showing knee,
26:15>> right? Exactly. I'm just going to say if
26:17your dress wasn't long enough or your
26:18skirt.
26:19>> Exactly. So,
26:20>> or she wore pants when she wasn't
26:22supposed to,
26:23>> right?
26:24>> But also, it is California, so I mean,
26:26you'd think there'd be a little bit of
26:28leeway, so who knows,
26:29>> right?
26:29>> I say it's somewhere in between
26:32>> the super strict nunlike behavior.
26:36>> Yeah. And
26:37>> Yeah. Yeah.
26:37>> Yeah.
26:38>> So,
26:40>> anyways,
26:41>> we digress. Sorry, guys.
26:45>> Yeah. Uh, so she gets kicked out.
26:48>> Mhm. And uh after a while she reconnects
26:52with Steve
26:54and eventually they get married in
26:57November of 1973.
27:00>> Oh wow.
27:00>> And for a little bit it, you know, it
27:03looks a little bit normal. They're a
27:05>> young married couple trying to build a
27:07life together, trying to figure out
27:08adulthood,
27:10trying to figure out how to make money
27:11stretch for bills, you know,
27:15>> and uh but their their early married
27:19life
27:21sounds
27:24very stressful immediately because
27:27Steve's working constantly, money is
27:28very tight,
27:31and uh
27:34they have
27:36three kids.
27:40>> Wow.
27:41>> Now, Christiey's born in 1974.
27:45>> So, not long after they got married,
27:47>> right?
27:47>> Mhm.
27:49>> Cheryl in 1976.
27:51>> Good year.
27:52>> Very good year. And then, uh, they have
27:56a son, Danny, born in 1979.
27:59Oh,
28:00>> okay.
28:00>> So,
28:02I skip forward a little bit.
28:05naturally things they got their
28:06honeymoon phase.
28:08>> Yes.
28:09>> Till about the time Danny's born.
28:13>> And by the time he comes along,
28:17the marriage is kind of deteriorating.
28:19Uh
28:21>> that's kind of sad.
28:22>> Pretty badly.
28:25>> Because there are affairs.
28:28>> Oh.
28:28>> And in other stuff, you know, that's
28:30common in most relationships. arguments,
28:32you know, some jealousy, money problems,
28:35>> and uh
28:38but the the affairs.
28:41>> Now, after Cheryl is born, do you
28:44remember which one Cheryl is?
28:45>> She's the middle one.
28:46>> She's the middle one. Number two. Yeah.
28:48>> Yeah. So, after she's born, old Stevie
28:51boy is like, I don't want any more
28:52goddamn kids.
28:53>> Mhm.
28:54>> And he goes and he gets a vasectomy.
28:56>> Wait.
28:57>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
29:00So when she becomes pregnant with Danny,
29:04Steve catches on pretty quick that the
29:06kid's not his
29:08>> and his wife's a [ __ ] [ __ ]
29:11>> And she's [ __ ] out in the
29:13neighborhood huring it up with her
29:14[ __ ] [ __ ] friends.
29:17>> They're [ __ ] [ __ ] friends.
29:21>> That's a horse club.
29:23>> Yeah. No, you can't put the hard O on
29:25it.
29:26>> Uhhuh.
29:27>> You got to say who. Cuz if you say
29:29[ __ ]
29:33it sounds degrading. But [ __ ]
29:37it's fun. It's casual. It's loose. Hey,
29:40she's having fun. She's a [ __ ]
29:46>> Good lord, you made me snort.
29:53>> So, but he doesn't leave, of course,
29:56because he's a good dude. Mhm.
29:58>> He's like, "All right, I forgive you.
30:00I'm going stay."
30:01>> Yeah.
30:02>> Which says a lot about him because uh
30:05most people like almost everybody
30:07described him exactly the same way.
30:09Patient to a fault.
30:11>> So he's quiet, he's stable, and he's the
30:13one like we said, you know, cleaning up
30:14the mess, trying to hold the marriage
30:16together, even after, you know, [ __ ]
30:19most people would have probably already
30:20walked away from this [ __ ]
30:22>> Like, nope, done.
30:23>> I didn't sign up for this type of crazy.
30:25>> I'm out. Exactly.
30:28>> Keep them kids.
30:31>> So by 1980,
30:34uh, their marriage finally collapses
30:36into divorce.
30:39And by this time, she's 25 years old.
30:41She's got three young children, very
30:44little stability,
30:46and a
30:48life that kind of already feels like
30:49it's moving in 10 different directions
30:51at once.
30:53>> Well, yeah. You mean you've got three
30:55young kids. You're going to be like,
30:58"Which way am I going?" Yeah.
30:59>> She probably know what to [ __ ] do.
31:01>> No.
31:02>> So, she's divorced, 25, three kids.
31:07>> So, young.
31:08>> Yeah. and uh
31:14you know she's going through different
31:15jobs, living in different apartments,
31:17bouncing between her relationships,
31:21>> but Steve's pretty still he's pretty
31:23involved with the kids still after the
31:25divorce.
31:25>> Oh, good.
31:26>> Which is good. Yeah. So, even though the
31:28marriage itself is over,
31:31>> at least they have dad, you know what I
31:33mean?
31:33>> Yeah. Yeah. But it also means that, you
31:35know, just because it's over and he's
31:37he's around, it doesn't mean that the
31:38emotional tension between the two of
31:40them uh has disappeared.
31:43>> Oh, I imagine not.
31:44>> You know what I mean?
31:45>> Yeah.
31:46>> So, uh she is also pretty [ __ ]
31:50restless
31:52all the goddamn time during these years.
31:55>> Like calm, routine domestic life never
31:58really seems to satisfy her for very
32:01long. Like I said in the beginning, she
32:03always seems to need something else
32:05happening somewhere.
32:06>> Like whether it's some new relationship,
32:09>> some new excitement,
32:11>> or, you know, just some new emotional in
32:15some new emotional intensity.
32:19>> Sitting just ahead of wherever the [ __ ]
32:21she's currently sitting at,
32:23>> you know?
32:24>> That's weighted emo. Yeah.
32:26>> So
32:27>> I imagine that's where shopping
32:28addictions come from. You know what I
32:30mean?
32:30>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.
32:33>> So, uh, now somewhere in this period,
32:39this [ __ ] wackadoo becomes heavily
32:43interested in surrogate pregnancy
32:44programs.
32:46>> Wait, wait, wait, wait.
32:48>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:50>> She's got three.
32:51>> Uhhuh.
32:52>> She's she's not in a relationship that
32:56we that we're aware of. And she's like,
32:58>> "Hey, come rent my uterus." Like,
33:00really? You know what would be a good
33:01idea? I should have another kid. But I
33:04don't I'm not going to keep it. I'm
33:06going to essentially like sell it to
33:10these people.
33:13>> That's insane. I can't
33:14>> not sell it. That sounds bad because
33:16surrogacy is a valid program.
33:18>> Yes.
33:18>> That's used by a lot of people that
33:20cannot have children by themselves.
33:22>> Yes.
33:23>> And uh it's very respectful.
33:26Respectable.
33:27>> Yeah. It's it's it's marvelous. I
33:30>> unfortunately just like anything else it
33:32can be abused.
33:33>> Yeah.
33:34>> Which I mean I guess I can't really say
33:36that that's what she does but she takes
33:38advantage of it and I I mean I guess I
33:41can't really even say that
33:44>> because it's a thing like she was able
33:47and fertile.
33:48>> Yes.
33:49>> So essentially and this is the 80s. The
33:51[ __ ] was weird back then. You know what
33:53I mean?
33:53>> Yeah. It was pretty
33:55>> but it was also a lot of [ __ ] money.
33:57I think it was like upwards of $70,000.
34:00Like between 30 and $70,000 depending on
34:04where the said baby was going. You know
34:06what I mean?
34:07>> Okay. Okay.
34:08>> If you're tracking what I'm putting
34:09down.
34:10>> I do.
34:10>> And uh
34:13uh so that's a lot of money.
34:15>> That is.
34:16>> So I'm sure
34:17>> cuz you're you know
34:18>> I'll give her the benefit of the doubt
34:19and I'm sure she's thinking, "Okay, how
34:21the [ __ ] am I going to pay for the kids
34:22I got?"
34:23>> Right? I'm going to do this and then at
34:25least we'll have some money,
34:26>> right?
34:27>> So,
34:28>> oh my god, that would have been a little
34:29hard to explain though. Like, yeah,
34:31mommy's carrying a baby, but it's not
34:32going to live with us.
34:33>> Yeah. Well, she almost doesn't get to do
34:35it because she uh applies multiple times
34:38and initially like fails miserably the
34:42psychological screening process. Oh,
34:48>> eventually she does succeed.
34:52But
34:53>> wow. I'm I'm over here wondering what
34:55the psychological process is.
34:57>> You can have a weird surgery done if you
34:58ask enough doctors. You know what I
35:00mean? So,
35:01>> that's true. That's true.
35:03>> So, yeah, she uh she does end up going
35:07through with it. She carries the kid to
35:09term, gives birth in 1982, signs away
35:12her parental rights, and receives a
35:14hefty payment for the arrangement,
35:17>> and then starts talking about doing it
35:19again not long afterwards.
35:21>> Oh, give your body a little time.
35:24>> Yeah.
35:24>> Oh my god. But I mean, if that is a
35:27great way to provide for your kids, then
35:29totally understand that. And you know,
35:32>> right?
35:33So, uh, people around her at this time
35:37described her as someone who seemed
35:39deeply drawn toward emotional attachment
35:42and attention, but also strangely
35:43inconsistent inconsistent once ordinary
35:46responsibility entered the picture.
35:49Now, she wasn't openly cruel or openly
35:51abusive, just emotionally unpredictable.
35:58>> Oh. Oh, okay. Okay.
36:01>> Yeah. So, I mean,
36:04>> she's kind of sounding like a
36:07manic.
36:08>> I know, right?
36:09>> Okay.
36:09>> A little bit bipolar, maybe. Who knows?
36:12>> Oh,
36:13>> emotionally unpredictable is a good
36:14term, though. So, we'll go with that.
36:16And uh but but yeah, I mean, she's a
36:19surrogate. That's not really working
36:20out.
36:21>> Mhm.
36:22>> It does a little bit, but she still
36:23needs a job.
36:25>> Yeah. So, I mean the she goes and she
36:27gets a job, the best place an
36:29emotionally unstable individual can at
36:32the US post office.
36:35>> I expected you to say strip club, but
36:44joking.
36:47>> Oh my god.
36:48>> Sorry. Post carriers. Postal carriers.
36:53>> Yeah. Oh my god. It's funny.
36:55>> It is funny.
36:56>> So, yeah. She goes and she gets a job at
36:58the post office in Arizona, which is
37:01where she meets Robert Nickerbacher.
37:04>> I like that last name.
37:05>> Yeah.
37:07>> Nickabaka.
37:08>> So, he enters the picture, but most
37:10people just call him Nick.
37:13>> Yeah. Now, uh Nick's not such a good
37:17dude.
37:19>> Oh.
37:19>> Cuz Nick's married.
37:21>> What?
37:22>> Yeah. And Diane's divorced, which is
37:24fine,
37:25>> right?
37:26>> But the two of them start having an
37:27affair while they're working together.
37:29>> Oh,
37:30>> yeah. And uh pretty much every
37:34later interview about this relationship,
37:37everyone said that
37:40uh she was emotionally attached to him
37:44like immediately, like almost alarmingly
37:47fast.
37:48>> Oh, that's not good.
37:50>> Right. Uh she would call constantly
37:54wanting to spend time together
37:56constantly talking about future plans
37:58constantly.
37:59>> Buddy's married,
38:00>> right?
38:01>> So, and she's doesn't see that as a
38:04stumbling block.
38:05>> Yeah. No, Diane's going to get hers.
38:08So, you know, and at first the
38:11relationship probably feels exciting for
38:12both of them. You know, it's secret.
38:14It's a little workplace affair. They're
38:16sneaking around and all that. But
38:20as it does, it deteriorates
38:23>> and over time the emotional balance
38:24between the two of them starts uh
38:26shifting pretty dramatically because of
38:29course Diane is getting more emotionally
38:31invested as time goes on and Nick is
38:34doing the opposite.
38:36>> Kind of trying to take a step back.
38:38>> Yeah. Kind of like, whoa, wait, what am
38:40I doing? I'm married. Yeah, that was
38:42fun, but
38:44>> Yeah. And the deeper Diane falls into
38:46this relationship, the more emotionally
38:48centered Nick seems to become in her
38:50life.
38:52And uh yeah,
38:56now he's trying to
39:00create emotional distance.
39:02>> Mhm.
39:04And according to him, like he himself,
39:07Nick, later on, one of the biggest
39:08issues in their relationship was the
39:10reality of Dian's life outside the
39:13affair, which of course is the children.
39:16>> Oh. Oh, okay.
39:18>> Because Nick didn't want an instant
39:20family. Instant family being I'm dating
39:24you. You have kids. Now we're a family.
39:27>> Yeah. I didn't get to partake in any of
39:30the other parts of
39:32>> creating said family.
39:33>> Right.
39:35>> So, it's just kind of instant. He wanted
39:38no part of it,
39:39>> which is his prerogative, right? You
39:41know what I mean? It's not for
39:42everybody.
39:43>> Correct. Correct. And uh
39:47the more serious that she would push to
39:50want the relationship to become more
39:53serious, the harder
39:56he pushed that not
39:59like the opposite. You know what I mean?
40:01>> Yeah.
40:02>> And uh she did not handle the emotional
40:06uh rejection at all well at all.
40:11>> She just couldn't walk away. So her
40:14usual thing is like if someone uh like
40:17started pulling away from her,
40:19>> she would just push harder towards them
40:21instead.
40:22>> Oh,
40:22>> like instead of giving them space, more
40:24calls, more pressure, more attempts to
40:26reconnect.
40:29>> And uh so eventually Nick's like, "Fuck
40:33this.
40:35I'm out."
40:36>> Does Does he get a restraining order?
40:38>> Yeah.
40:39>> Good.
40:40>> Probably. I that's probably what it
40:42would take for it. Sounds like it
40:44anyway.
40:45>> Good luck.
40:45>> Now,
40:47Diane doesn't seem emotionally prepared
40:49to let go of this at all.
40:51>> Mhm.
40:51>> And I mean, if anything, she seems to
40:54become more emotionally fixated
40:56the further away he gets.
41:00>> Oh, that's just sad,
41:01>> right?
41:01>> That is just sad.
41:02>> Yeah.
41:04>> Read the room, Diane.
41:05>> Yeah.
41:06>> Come on.
41:06>> So, eventually she's like, "Fuck it. I'm
41:10going to move to Oregon.
41:13And she does this in 1983.
41:16>> Does she have family?
41:18>> Um, no. I don't think so. I think she's
41:20just trying to start over.
41:22>> Oh, okay.
41:23>> She doesn't move into a new state, new
41:25surroundings. Uh, just trying to rebuild
41:28her, you know, life after a divorce.
41:31>> Yeah. Well, like you had said, she was
41:33trying to reinvent herself through
41:35throughout her lifetime. So,
41:37>> that makes sense.
41:38>> Which she does a lot. Mhm.
41:40>> But uh emotionally she never really
41:43seems to leave Arizona behind at all
41:45because she's still completely wrapped
41:46up in Nick. She still calls him
41:48constantly
41:50and you know tries to figure out ways to
41:53reconnect with him.
41:54>> Well, that's expensive.
41:56>> Yeah.
41:57Now of Yeah. Long distance, right? Long
42:00distance in the [ __ ] 80s,
42:02>> right?
42:02>> Before 1800 collect.
42:05Yeah.
42:06Got to wait for 6:00 p.m. so I can make
42:09the better call. Yeah.
42:11>> Oh man. Remember those? Like you had to
42:13hit like star and then there was like a
42:15like some kind of [ __ ] long code like
42:18star
42:19>> 2317999
42:21for lower rates.
42:22>> Yes. Yes, I remember. Yeah.
42:26>> Oh my god.
42:27>> That shit's crazy.
42:29>> I'm glad we don't have to deal with that
42:30anymore.
42:31The only [ __ ] place you see landline
42:33anymore is like a business.
42:35>> Oh, that's true.
42:36>> Right.
42:37>> Yeah.
42:38>> Like
42:40when's the last time you heard someone
42:42like like, "Oh, I have to go buy a new
42:44house phone."
42:47>> I had one for a very, very long time. We
42:50just
42:50>> That's barely a section in Walmart
42:52anymore. Like home phones.
42:55>> Oh yeah. You know, I wonder if if like
43:00people in um nursing homes and stuff, I
43:03wonder if kids like set up like a real
43:05phone like that for their for their
43:07family members when they go in. I wonder
43:09I don't know. I just digressed.
43:10>> Wait, what?
43:11>> Like if you you're sending your grandma
43:13and grandpa into a nursing home. Like I
43:16wonder if they give them a landline.
43:18>> Oh. Oh. In the place probably. Yeah. Cuz
43:21they're old.
43:22>> Yeah.
43:22>> And that's what they know.
43:23>> Yeah. It's a familiar thing. That'll
43:25probably be phased out at some point,
43:27too, though.
43:28>> Yeah. Cuz they're going to be
43:29>> You're like, "You're going to stick
43:30grandma."
43:31>> Yeah.
43:32>> And like, "Here's your iPad."
43:34>> Yeah. Yeah. Grandma, you don't download
43:39anything. Grandma,
43:41we're going to put child instead of
43:43child blocks.
43:44>> Here's your iPad and the card that
43:45contains your food credits.
43:51>> If you need help, push the button on the
43:53wall.
43:55A robot will be along to steal your
43:57medicine.
44:01>> Robots. Oh my god.
44:04>> Sorry, tangent. Sorry, guys.
44:07>> So, yeah, she's uh she's up in Oregon.
44:10>> Mhm.
44:10>> But she's still pining after Nick.
44:13>> Mhm.
44:14>> So, uh
44:15>> God, poor heartbroken gal.
44:17>> Yeah. Now, she's up there and she's
44:19trying to adjust to her new life, but
44:20her emotional state seems to keep
44:22getting more unstable.
44:25because all she can seem to focus on is
44:29wanting this relationship with Nick and
44:32it's hanging over everything.
44:33>> Mhm. The obsession.
44:35>> Yeah.
44:36>> Yeah. Poor gal. So, uh,
44:41yeah, she's trying to function normal
44:44life,
44:46you know, kids still being kids.
44:51And, uh, you know, like like you said,
44:55she might be a little bit bipolar cuz
44:56one day she sounds upbeat, the next
44:58she's kind of devastated, one minute
45:00she's talking about moving forward with
45:02her life, the next she's back to
45:03obsessing over her failed relationship
45:06with Nick.
45:08So,
45:10by the spring of 1983, everything
45:12underneath this woman's life is kind of
45:14unstable.
45:16>> She's overwhelmed.
45:19Money is tight and uh
45:24the kids are still right there.
45:27>> Mhm. And she doesn't have anybody there
45:29to help her.
45:30>> Right.
45:32>> Then May 19th arrives. Mhm.
45:36>> So May 19th, 1983 is a Thursday night,
45:38and Diane has all three kids with her in
45:40a car. Christy, Cheryl, and Danny.
45:43>> Mhm.
45:44>> 8, seven, and three. Little kids.
45:47>> Yeah.
45:49>> So
45:51earlier that evening, Diane had been in
45:55the Marola area visiting a friend named
45:58Heather and Heather's husband.
46:01So, this is not Diane leaving some
46:04crowded public place and immediately
46:06going straight home. There's movement
46:08first. There's visiting. There's, you
46:10know, the normal little end of day stuff
46:12that probably feels completely ordinary
46:13to the kids sitting in the car.
46:15>> Right. Right. Like this is just what we
46:17do.
46:18>> Yeah.
46:19And uh
46:22by the time she's driving outside
46:24Springfield, the kids are sleeping in
46:26the car, or at least according to the
46:29account that she gives later,
46:31>> right?
46:32>> And instead of taking the most direct
46:34route home, she decides
46:37I'm I'm going to take Old Mohawk Road.
46:41>> Oh, maybe to let the kids sleep a little
46:42longer.
46:43>> Yeah.
46:44>> Now, she would say that the this little
46:46detour was for sightseeing.
46:49in the middle of the night. Okay.
46:52>> There's not a lot to see,
46:55>> right? Exactly. Strange word.
46:57>> Yeah.
46:57>> Yeah. Because, like I said, it's late at
46:59night and
47:00>> unless there was a clear sky and she
47:01just wanted a better view of the star
47:03island.
47:03>> Maybe. Who knows? It is rural Lane
47:05County like you said and it is dark,
47:08>> right? But Old Mohawk Road is not a
47:11bright scenic overlook where you pull
47:12off with three little kids and
47:16look at anything really.
47:18>> No,
47:18>> it's a rural road outside town.
47:22>> Well, that's an odd choice.
47:24>> Yeah.
47:27>> So,
47:29uh
47:32the kids are asleep.
47:34There's the And according to Diane's
47:37account, she sees a man near the road
47:40trying to flag her down as she's
47:42driving.
47:43Okay.
47:44>> Oh. Oh, that don't that's so scary.
47:46>> And this is where her where this is
47:49where her story begins. Okay. The story
47:54that she's going to tell.
47:56>> Okay.
47:57>> Now, she says she stops the car.
48:01Why?
48:02>> You're single white. I don't care if
48:04you're white. I don't care. You're a
48:05single woman. You got kids. Don't stop
48:07the car.
48:09Don't stop the car.
48:11>> Yeah.
48:12>> I You're
48:14okay. Sorry.
48:18>> So, yeah. I I mean, don't do it. It's a
48:20bad idea. And you got your kids with
48:22you.
48:22>> Yeah.
48:22>> And you don't know this dude?
48:24>> No.
48:24>> You don't [ __ ] know this dude?
48:26>> No. This is scary.
48:29>> So, uh, but she's like, "Yeah, this
48:31seems like a good idea. I'm going to
48:32pull over.
48:34see what this guy wants. He's flagging
48:36me down.
48:38And she So, she stops. She says, "The
48:41man comes up to her and she describes
48:45him as a bushyhaired stranger, a white
48:49man in his late 20s with dark, shaggy
48:52hair, stubbly
48:55like five:00 shadow."
48:57>> Okay.
48:57>> A denim jacket with an offcolor shirt.
49:02Okay.
49:04>> Now, it's the kind of description that
49:06sounds specific enough to kind of
49:08picture in your head.
49:09>> Yeah.
49:10>> But not specific enough that anyone can
49:12easily go find
49:15this person.
49:16>> Oh, well, yeah. I mean, the area that
49:18you're in, it's logging community. So,
49:21you probably just described a lot of
49:22people you'd see at the grocery store.
49:25>> Exactly.
49:25>> Oh my god. So, she says that this man,
49:28this bushy-haired stranger
49:31>> wants the keys
49:34and there's some kind of confrontation,
49:37which we hear in a clip
49:39>> that I played.
49:40>> Yeah.
49:41>> She refuses because like you heard her
49:44say, she refuses to be a victim of
49:46society.
49:50>> Yeah. Trying to figure out how
49:51societyy's fitting.
49:53>> Yeah. So the situation escalates and
49:55then according to Diane, he reaches into
49:57the car and just starts shooting.
50:00>> That's the story she tells.
50:04>> Where did the
50:06>> Okay, now let's just stay inside her
50:09version for just a second and before we
50:12even get into what detectives later do
50:14with it,
50:16>> the scene she's describing is [ __ ]
50:18horrible
50:19>> because her kids are uh they're asleep
50:21in the [ __ ] car. Yeah.
50:23>> And suddenly there's a stranger at the
50:25driver's side window with a gun. And
50:26there's no time for these kids to
50:28process anything. No time to understand
50:30who he is, why the car is stopped, why
50:32there's voices raised,
50:34>> right?
50:35>> Or why there's anything wrong. And then
50:37he just starts firing.
50:38>> It's just scary as hell.
50:40>> Now, Cheryl is struck twice in the
50:43chest.
50:45>> She's the seven-year-old.
50:46>> Mhm.
50:48>> Christy is shot in the chest and the
50:50arm.
50:51And uh Danny is shot and the bullet
50:56damages his spine. It's [ __ ] three
50:59years old, mind you.
51:00>> Oh my god.
51:01>> Now Diane is wounded in the left
51:03forearm.
51:06>> Okay. Sorry, I'm raising it like she
51:08would have been trying to block it from
51:10the window.
51:10>> Yeah. Yeah.
51:11>> Okay. So she says that
51:17now initially she says that the man
51:20throws the keys
51:22and then in another time she says that
51:24she throw right in the clip we played
51:27>> she says she fains throwing the keys to
51:30confuse him and he's just firing the gun
51:33as he like apparently he's [ __ ]
51:35[ __ ]
51:37>> and he like it's like throwing the shoe
51:40in [ __ ] Austin Powers like huh
51:42like to just sh the bad guy. Let me go
51:44investigate that. You know what I mean?
51:45Like and he's just firing wild wildly at
51:48the keys as they go flying off like no
51:51>> in the middle of the night.
51:52>> Yeah.
51:54>> So
51:55>> like I said, the story changes a lot.
51:58>> Okay.
51:59>> And the details shift depending on the
52:02the telling of it. So the cleanest way
52:04is to say that in her in her account,
52:06the keys are no longer where she can
52:08immediately use them.
52:11Okay.
52:12>> Okay. So, like Okay.
52:13>> And in the in in the interview with the
52:16police, she says that she has to search
52:18for them
52:20>> in the darkness before she can leave.
52:23Again, not what she says in the clip.
52:26>> No.
52:27>> Which is why part of the reason I wanted
52:29to play it
52:31because the smuggness
52:33>> of it.
52:34>> Like your children are shot
52:37>> and
52:37>> and this is her this is her. Yeah. Okay.
52:42Now,
52:44so there's the stretch of time, however
52:46long it really is.
52:47>> Mhm.
52:48>> Where the kids are inside the car after
52:50the shooting,
52:53you know.
52:54>> Yeah.
52:55>> And she's outside moving around the car
52:57trying to locate the keys.
53:01>> Where's the guy
53:02>> right
53:04now?
53:07Cheryl's wounds are catastrophic.
53:15>> They're very, very bad.
53:16>> Yeah.
53:18>> Uh
53:20she won't survive.
53:21>> Oh,
53:23>> Christiey's injuries are serious enough
53:24that the blood loss and trauma uh is
53:27going to cause her to have a stroke
53:30>> at the age of eight.
53:31>> Yes.
53:32>> Oh god.
53:34And Danny's injury is so severe that
53:37it's going to leave him paralyzed from
53:39the waist down.
53:41>> Oh my god. At the age of three.
53:42>> Now, none of this is fully known yet on
53:45Old Mohawk Road, but that's the severity
53:48of what has just happened.
53:50>> Oh my god, those poor babies.
53:52>> So, eventually Diane says she finds
53:54these [ __ ] keys,
53:56gets back into the car, and starts
53:59driving immediately towards McKenzie
54:01Wilmet Hospital in Springfield. Okay.
54:05>> Now, this drive is not just a bridge
54:07between a shooting and a hospital. It's
54:10and it's kind of its own part of the
54:11horror
54:13because now she's driving with three
54:16children in the car who
54:17>> they're bleeding.
54:18>> They're not just injured. They're
54:19[ __ ] like they're critically wounded.
54:22>> Yeah.
54:23>> Uh Cheryl is dying.
54:26>> Christy is alive but badly hurt. And
54:28Danny is alive but badly hurt.
54:31And
54:35Christy
54:38later described hearing Cheryl making
54:40choking sounds in the back seat which is
54:42[ __ ] heartbreaking.
54:43>> Oh my god. Yeah.
54:46>> Uh
54:49>> I can imag Yeah.
54:51>> And she's not just she's not just the
54:53name on our page here. She's the
54:55sevenyear-old child in the back seat
54:57that is still alive for part of this
54:59drive.
55:01That is horrible.
55:01>> And her sister can hear her dying
55:04>> dying. That is horrible.
55:06>> And Diane's driving. The only [ __ ]
55:08adult in the car. So she she says she ch
55:11she [ __ ] scares this guy off or he
55:13just [ __ ] runs off after he's decided
55:15he has [ __ ] shot them up enough
55:18randomly.
55:21You know what I mean? So he's gone. Hm.
55:28>> So,
55:30they get to the hospital
55:32>> a little before uh 11 p.m. She pulls up
55:36into the emergency entrance and she's
55:38laying on the horn.
55:40>> Mhm.
55:41>> Uh hospital staff hear the horn. They
55:43come out and and they immed, you know,
55:45they immediately they're like, "Fuck,
55:47this isn't a normal emergency." Uh there
55:49there's three children shot inside the
55:51car. one of them already beyond saving
55:53or close to it and the the other two are
55:56barely alive.
55:57>> And their mother is standing there with
56:00the gunshot wound to her arm telling
56:02them a stranger did it on a dark road
56:04outside town.
56:07>> So
56:10yeah, so you know it's things start
56:14going pretty fast. The doctors and
56:15nurses come out. They they you know they
56:17get the kids out. They have to figure
56:18out who's breathing, who needs surgery,
56:20who can who can be saved,
56:22>> right?
56:23>> Uh, unfortunately, Cheryl, the
56:26seven-year-old, is pronounced dead on
56:27arrival.
56:29>> Oh, poor baby.
56:30>> Uh, Christy and Danny are still alive,
56:32but barely. Uh,
56:35and you you got Diane here [ __ ]
56:37making everything worse. There's so much
56:40>> because she just insists on uh
56:44weirdly repeating the story about this
56:47guy over and over again to these people
56:49in the hospital.
56:53>> That is odd cuz you
56:54>> Yeah.
56:56So, by the time police start hearing
56:58Dian's version of this [ __ ] they're not
57:00hearing it in a calm room with clean
57:03notes and time to think. They're hearing
57:04it in the middle of a hospital emergency
57:06with children being worked on, staff
57:08moving everywhere, you know what I mean?
57:10>> Complete chaos.
57:12>> And she's giving them the first version,
57:16the first version of a story that is
57:18going to become the center of this
57:21entire [ __ ] investigation.
57:24>> Oh my god. It
57:27I don't know if I'm going to be able to
57:28keep them all straight,
57:30>> right?
57:32Cuz right now I want to be like, "So
57:34which one was the first one?" The first
57:35one where she threw the keys.
57:38>> Yeah.
57:39>> And then he ran away and she got out of
57:41the car to find them so she could
57:45drive the kids to the hospital.
57:46>> It's [ __ ] up, right? It's [ __ ]
57:48crazy. It's bonkers.
57:49>> It's
57:51It's those soap opera.
57:54>> Yeah.
57:56>> Oh, it's poor babies. It's all I can
57:59think of.
57:59>> Right.
58:01So, while doctors are working on Christy
58:05and Danny inside the hospital, police
58:08start showing up
58:11>> and they're going to they're they're
58:13starting to piece together what what
58:15Diane is claiming happened on Old Mohawk
58:18Road.
58:20>> And at first, of course, it sounds
58:21horrifying,
58:22>> but you know, probably kind of possible.
58:26random roadside encounter, stranger with
58:28a gun, mother and children attacked. You
58:30know that that's the framework
58:32everybody's operating under initially,
58:34>> right? He could have been high on
58:35something or you know [ __ ] stranger
58:38shit's happened.
58:39>> Yeah.
58:40>> Okay. Lunatic with a 38 sounds very
58:42[ __ ] uh
58:43>> Yeah, could have been a trans
58:46>> Oh. Oh god.
58:47>> Yeah.
58:48>> Wow. That was a [ __ ] weird noise.
58:51>> Uh that was a pretty low airplane there.
58:52Yeah, that probably picked up on our
58:55podcast. Sorry for the vibrations. The
58:58aliens are invading. It's time.
59:02>> Little gray men.
59:03>> Pull your loved ones close, listeners.
59:06It's time.
59:10>> So, yeah, that that's the story they're
59:12operating off of and that's what they
59:13have to go off of. So, they head out
59:15toward Old Moahawk Road. Yeah. That very
59:18same night trying to lock the scene down
59:20before anything gets disturbed.
59:22And once they get out there, of course,
59:25the first thing that they notice is just
59:27how isolated parts of that road actually
59:29are at night.
59:32>> Oh, I can Yeah, cuz
59:34>> like there's nothing
59:35>> different in the day.
59:36>> Yeah. There's no like convenience
59:38stores. It's dark like quiet stretches
59:41of road.
59:42>> Street lamps. Yeah.
59:43>> Yeah. So, and she said this guy fled on
59:47foot. So, where'd he [ __ ] go? You
59:49know what I mean? Like,
59:50>> right.
59:50>> Where'd he go? How do you get there?
59:52>> It's just so scary. That's so scary.
59:56>> So, meanwhile, back at the hospital,
59:59>> this [ __ ] keeps [ __ ] running her
1:00:01mouth, giving anyone who will listen the
1:00:04same description of this shooter and
1:00:07telling this story. Like, he's a white
1:00:10male with bushy hair, late 20s, denim
1:00:12jacket, says he wanted the keys, says
1:00:14there was a confrontation, says he shot
1:00:16the children.
1:00:18I'm surprised that they didn't like give
1:00:19her some drugs to like make her sleep or
1:00:23something,
1:00:23>> right? Or shut her the [ __ ] up.
1:00:24>> Yeah.
1:00:26So now, one thing that immediately
1:00:27started bothering uh a few of the
1:00:30investigators is the timeline involving
1:00:32the drive to the hospital because once
1:00:34they began kind of estimating the
1:00:37distances and reconstructing the route,
1:00:40>> uh questions kind of start forming about
1:00:42how long it appeared to take Diane to
1:00:44reach McKenzie Wilmet Hospital after the
1:00:47shooting.
1:00:49And this kind of becomes one of the
1:00:51earliest cracks in the story.
1:00:55>> Huh.
1:00:55>> Now, not enough by itself to accuse her
1:00:57of anything. No,
1:00:58>> not even close.
1:01:00>> But enough that detectives start looking
1:01:03harder at details instead of treating
1:01:05the scene like an obvious random
1:01:08roadside attack.
1:01:10>> Huh, that's quite the shift.
1:01:12>> Yeah. Now, meanwhile, there's two
1:01:15children still fighting for their lives
1:01:17inside this hospital. while all this is
1:01:19going down.
1:01:22>> So, I mean,
1:01:25one of them is about going to have a
1:01:27stroke because of her injuries, and one
1:01:28of them is never going to walk again.
1:01:30>> Yeah.
1:01:32>> So,
1:01:32>> God, that's heartbreaking.
1:01:34>> Exactly. And I say that because the
1:01:37emotional atmosphere around the case,
1:01:38the first night is already really,
1:01:41really [ __ ] overwhelming.
1:01:42>> Cuz one child's already dead
1:01:44>> and the other two are very, very
1:01:46seriously injured. And then this this
1:01:49[ __ ] is running around not helping
1:01:50anything, claiming there's a stranger
1:01:53ambushing people on dark roads outside
1:01:55of the town.
1:02:00>> Yeah, I know, right?
1:02:01>> Why isn't she just like broken down into
1:02:04a heap?
1:02:04>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:05>> Just balling cuz one of them
1:02:06>> Very good question.
1:02:07>> Like
1:02:09>> Well, like you heard in the clip, she's
1:02:11because she is emotionless. She's not
1:02:13worried about uh the fact that her
1:02:15children were just attacked. One of them
1:02:17is dead.
1:02:18>> Oh, that's right. Remember her
1:02:19>> pain in the ass for her because she's
1:02:21not going to have trouble. She's going
1:02:22to have trouble tying her shoes for two
1:02:24months and she's going to have to have
1:02:25that plate in her arm for about two
1:02:27years. Remember?
1:02:28>> And her children were lucky.
1:02:29>> Yeah.
1:02:30>> Oh my god.
1:02:32>> So, yeah, the little details uh started
1:02:36to bother people.
1:02:37>> Mhm. For example,
1:02:40investigators looking at the scene
1:02:42noticed that there doesn't appear to be
1:02:46any evidence of Diane aggressively
1:02:48speeding away from danger after the
1:02:50shooting.
1:02:52>> Come again.
1:02:52>> Like there's no peel out.
1:02:55>> Oh, what? There's no evidence of her
1:03:00like having sped away
1:03:02>> because she was just attacked, mind you,
1:03:04and she's trying to get these kids to
1:03:05the hospital. And there is no evidence
1:03:07that she fled the scene with any kind of
1:03:10urgency whatsoever.
1:03:13>> Okay.
1:03:15>> Oh, that just
1:03:17>> so that I mean that stands out because
1:03:19most people after a stranger just opens
1:03:21fire into your car full of children
1:03:22would probably drive like a [ __ ]
1:03:24maniac trying to get help. Yeah, you
1:03:26would be.
1:03:28>> Then there's her injury.
1:03:30>> Mhm.
1:03:30>> The a gunshot wound to her arm is
1:03:32relatively minor compared to what the
1:03:34[ __ ] just happened to her kids.
1:03:37>> Yeah. It doesn't line up,
1:03:38>> right? And again, none of these things,
1:03:40you know, alone prove anything.
1:03:42>> But when you look at them together, you
1:03:44you know, it kind of slowly starts
1:03:45shifting from find the stranger
1:03:47immediately into uh we need to look at
1:03:50every possibility here.
1:03:52>> God, God, I'm not an investigator. Okay,
1:03:54Frank. Why don't you hit Crispy Cream?
1:03:57No staples. Get some notebooks. Shit's
1:04:00not adding up. Mark, you want in on
1:04:03this?
1:04:04>> Oh my god. No, I'm sorry. I'm I'm still
1:04:07just thinking about the kids and how
1:04:09horrific. That's just
1:04:11>> right now. Meanwhile, Diane is becoming
1:04:14the center of media attention almost
1:04:16immediately, too, because you know, the
1:04:18news shows up, the story's horrifying.
1:04:20Young mother, three children. Well,
1:04:22she's an attention
1:04:23>> attacked on a [ __ ] rural road.
1:04:26>> And the reporters start circling. They
1:04:29start circling the case very quickly,
1:04:32>> especially when she Diane continues
1:04:35repeating the same [ __ ] over and over
1:04:38again about this dude out on Old Mohawk
1:04:41Road.
1:04:43>> So, she's kind of creating this like uh
1:04:46what what's the word I'm looking for?
1:04:50Like she's she's creating this monster,
1:04:52if you will, that now everybody is going
1:04:54to be on the lookout for.
1:04:56>> Yeah.
1:04:57>> You know.
1:04:57>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much.
1:04:59Yeah.
1:05:00>> Here's your ultimate strange danger.
1:05:02>> You know what the [ __ ] she's doing
1:05:03really is wasting [ __ ] resources.
1:05:07That's what she's doing.
1:05:09>> Oh, that [ __ ]
1:05:10>> Yeah. So, I say that because, you know,
1:05:16once detectives start really going
1:05:18through Diane's version of events,
1:05:21>> the problems don't hit all at once, you
1:05:23know, and smaller stuff first. Little
1:05:26details that keep bothering people
1:05:28>> after they look back over the notes
1:05:30again.
1:05:31>> Mhm.
1:05:32>> And
1:05:35you, you know, like I said, one of the
1:05:36first major issues was the route and how
1:05:39long it took. So they go out and they
1:05:41start physically driving the route
1:05:43themselves,
1:05:44>> okay,
1:05:44>> and timing it,
1:05:46>> you know, looking at the distance, how
1:05:47long it realistically should have taken
1:05:49to get from the shooting scene back into
1:05:51Springfield.
1:05:52>> Okay.
1:05:53>> And the more they work through that, the
1:05:55more uncomfortable they start getting
1:05:57with it.
1:05:58>> Oh.
1:05:59>> Especially because Cheryl's injuries
1:06:01were so severe.
1:06:03>> Yeah. I mean, my I would have been out
1:06:06of hell.
1:06:07>> Exactly. Okay, so if you're sitting
1:06:08there believing that your children are
1:06:09dying in the back seat, most people are
1:06:11probably driving completely out of their
1:06:13[ __ ] minds trying to get to the
1:06:15hospital. They're running lights,
1:06:16they're flying through intersections,
1:06:18tires screaming, pure [ __ ] panic,
1:06:20right?
1:06:20>> Oh yeah.
1:06:21>> But they say that her drive didn't
1:06:23really reflect that kind of urgency at
1:06:26all.
1:06:28>> Oh my god.
1:06:29>> Okay. Now, at the same time, they're
1:06:32also
1:06:33processing her car because they take
1:06:35this [ __ ] in for evidence.
1:06:37>> Oh, yeah. A gun's been fired inside that
1:06:39car,
1:06:39>> right? So, once they start looking
1:06:41closely at the inside of her Nissan,
1:06:44things start feeling off there, too. The
1:06:47gunshots, the seating positions, the
1:06:49trajectories,
1:06:52>> the physical layout inside of the car,
1:06:54none of it immediately screams, "Diane
1:06:56did this."
1:06:57It's not like detectives walk up to the
1:06:59vehicle and suddenly solve the case in
1:07:00five minutes. You know what I mean? But
1:07:02little by little, they stop looking at
1:07:03the shooting like a straightforward
1:07:04roadside attack and start looking at it,
1:07:07you know,
1:07:10a little more accusatory.
1:07:14>> Oh, kind of like when a spouse dies,
1:07:17they look at the other one.
1:07:19>> She's sticking with her story.
1:07:22Now,
1:07:23outside the investigation, this case is
1:07:27exploding publicly
1:07:29>> because, you know, like I said, it's
1:07:30this horrifying story.
1:07:31>> It is.
1:07:33>> Dead little girl, you know, three kids
1:07:35attacked, young mother, dark road.
1:07:37>> Yeah.
1:07:38>> It's this is [ __ ] the [ __ ] that they
1:07:40make movies out of in the 80s.
1:07:42>> This is a nightmare for every mom in the
1:07:4480s. Yeah, absolutely. So publicly,
1:07:47there's a lot of sympathy pouring
1:07:50towards Diane during these early days.
1:07:54>> Okay, now that's the public.
1:07:56>> But behind closed doors, detectives are
1:07:58like, "Fuck." Uhhuh. They're like, "I
1:08:01don't know, Frank.
1:08:02>> Something isn't out of
1:08:03>> something." Yeah. Something smells fishy
1:08:05here. Huh.
1:08:07>> So,
1:08:09uh, because the robbery part of the
1:08:12story keeps bothering them, too.
1:08:15If somebody wanted a car,
1:08:17>> why shoot the kids,
1:08:19>> right? Why not just pull the driver out?
1:08:21>> Yeah. You know, if he wanted the keys,
1:08:24why would you keep firing into the
1:08:25vehicle?
1:08:27Why does, you know, why does the entire
1:08:29thing feel so personal?
1:08:31And then there's her injury also, you
1:08:33know, like like obviously being shot at
1:08:37all is traumatic.
1:08:38>> Yes.
1:08:39>> But they're looking at the fact that her
1:08:40wound is much less severe than the
1:08:42injuries suffered by her children.
1:08:46Which is odd because if you think that
1:08:47she was trying to use herself as a
1:08:49shield.
1:08:49>> Yeah. Very odd. Yeah.
1:08:51>> And again, none of these things alone
1:08:53prove anything, but together they kind
1:08:55of start to stack up.
1:08:56>> The timeline feels wrong, parts of the
1:08:58scene feel wrong, the shooting itself
1:09:00feels wrong. H.
1:09:02>> So,
1:09:05>> while the public is still largely
1:09:06focused on the kind of horrifying
1:09:08stranger story,
1:09:10>> the detectives are uh starting to spend
1:09:13more and more time looking directly at
1:09:15Diane.
1:09:17>> Oh.
1:09:18>> And they're getting increasingly more
1:09:20and more uncomfortable.
1:09:22>> Oh.
1:09:23>> Because she's becoming a massive public
1:09:25figure. And this is happening like very
1:09:28quickly, like almost overnight,
1:09:30>> which is crazy for that time, you know,
1:09:32that decade cuz there's no
1:09:34>> Yeah. I mean, it explodes across Oregon
1:09:37uh in a matter of days and then
1:09:39nationally, like not long after.
1:09:44>> Wow.
1:09:44>> And then once people actually start
1:09:46seeing her on television, the
1:09:48fascination with her becomes immediate.
1:09:52And not just because of the crime itself
1:09:53either, but because of Diane personally,
1:09:55the way she would talk during
1:09:57interviews, the way she uh sometimes
1:10:00smiles unexpectedly.
1:10:02>> What?
1:10:03>> Yeah. The way she could sound emotional
1:10:05in one moment and strangely calm the
1:10:07next. And uh this is kind of where the
1:10:10case starts dividing people because if
1:10:11you go back and watch these interviews,
1:10:14different people walk away with
1:10:15completely different reactions to her.
1:10:17Like some people see a traumatized
1:10:19mother trying to survive the worst thing
1:10:21imaginable while being shoved in front
1:10:24of cameras constantly and other people
1:10:26watch the exact same footage and
1:10:28immediately feel like something's off.
1:10:31>> Wow. Perspectives.
1:10:34>> Yeah. And that that split basically
1:10:35follows Diane through this entire case
1:10:37from this point forward because uh she
1:10:40doesn't behave the way people expect
1:10:42grieving mothers to behave on
1:10:43television.
1:10:44>> Oh, you said that. Grieving mothers.
1:10:46Yeah.
1:10:46>> Uhhuh. You I I would expect
1:10:49>> Yeah.
1:10:50>> tears,
1:10:51>> something different. Yeah.
1:10:52>> Or
1:10:53>> So, there are moments where she laughs
1:10:55nervously, uh moments where she smiles,
1:10:58moments where she seems more focused on
1:11:00describing herself and what happened to
1:11:03her than what happened to the children.
1:11:06And we just heard that firsthand in that
1:11:09[ __ ] clip we played.
1:11:10>> Mhm. Yeah.
1:11:11>> Now, obviously, trauma affects people
1:11:13differently.
1:11:14>> Mhm.
1:11:14>> And the detectives know that, too. Mhm.
1:11:16>> And you can't arrest somebody because
1:11:18they cried the wrong way or smiled at
1:11:20the wrong moment during an interview.
1:11:22>> Damn it.
1:11:23>> Right.
1:11:25But at the same time, they're already
1:11:27uncomfortable with with her story.
1:11:29>> Like something's hinky.
1:11:31>> Yeah. So now they're watching these
1:11:32interviews while also trying to
1:11:34reconcile the physical evidence from Old
1:11:37Mohawk Road.
1:11:38>> Okay.
1:11:39>> But the media attention around this
1:11:41[ __ ] just keeps growing.
1:11:43>> That's got to be putting some pressure
1:11:44on,
1:11:44>> right? I mean, reporters are [ __ ]
1:11:46everywhere. I mean, everywhere. They're
1:11:48outside the hospital, outside her
1:11:50apartment, outside police buildings.
1:11:52>> Jesus.
1:11:53>> Yeah. And people across Oregon are
1:11:56following updates about uh Christy and
1:11:58Danny constantly because, you know, both
1:12:00the surviving children are still in
1:12:01terrible condition during this time.
1:12:03>> Yeah.
1:12:04>> Uh Danny's paralyzed.
1:12:06>> Yeah. And I mean, so while the children
1:12:10are still fighting through all of this
1:12:12medically, Diane is [ __ ] sitting for
1:12:14interviews,
1:12:16she's not at the hospital at her [ __ ]
1:12:18children's side, which is where you
1:12:20think a [ __ ] mother would be.
1:12:23>> Like, [ __ ] no. Like, you know what I
1:12:25mean? Like,
1:12:26>> my child's in the [ __ ] hospital. I'm
1:12:28not eating. I'm not sleeping. I'm not
1:12:29[ __ ] leaving her goddamn side until
1:12:32she [ __ ] wakes up and I know she's
1:12:34okay.
1:12:34>> Yeah.
1:12:35The last thing I'm doing is going on
1:12:37[ __ ] Oprah with her big ass
1:12:39[ __ ] head [ __ ] talking to her
1:12:42about [ __ ]
1:12:43>> No. No. Every parent,
1:12:45>> man. You remember how often Oprah would
1:12:47change
1:12:48>> back then? She was [ __ ] big. She was
1:12:50small. She was big. She was small.
1:12:52Sometimes her [ __ ] head was huge.
1:12:54Sometimes her hair was huge.
1:12:56>> She's weird.
1:12:56>> Hair was huge a lot.
1:12:57>> She was weird. Yeah.
1:12:59>> A lot. Sometimes with
1:13:01>> I love big Oprah. I don't like skinny
1:13:02Oprah. I like big Oprah. She was warm
1:13:04and inviting and I like the show much
1:13:06better.
1:13:07>> Like when she pulled out that red wagon
1:13:11full of fat.
1:13:13>> Yeah. I think the first words out of my
1:13:16mom's mouth were somewhat to feed her.
1:13:17>> Right. But my point is is that she's not
1:13:20behaving the way you think that a
1:13:22grieving mother would or should be
1:13:25behaving.
1:13:26>> Right. Okay.
1:13:27>> Right.
1:13:29So, you know, and now, uh,
1:13:34she keeps talking about this guy and she
1:13:37keeps circling back to him.
1:13:40>> She's Yeah, she's kind of obsessed about
1:13:42this.
1:13:42>> Yeah.
1:13:44So,
1:13:46uh, another thing that detectives start
1:13:49learning during this period of poking
1:13:52around is just how emotionally central
1:13:54Nick
1:13:56still is in Diane's life, even after the
1:13:58shooting.
1:13:59>> Oh.
1:14:00>> Because Diane keeps talking about him.
1:14:02>> Oh. And once investigators eventually
1:14:04learned that Nick had already told Diane
1:14:06he did not want a relationship involving
1:14:09the children,
1:14:12the entire case [ __ ] changes for
1:14:14them.
1:14:17>> Not solved, not obvious,
1:14:20>> but they're like, "Okay, this is
1:14:22different."
1:14:23>> They're like, "Interesting."
1:14:25>> She won't shut the [ __ ] up about this
1:14:27guy. It just so happens he said, "Hey, I
1:14:30don't want a relationship with you
1:14:32because you have kids."
1:14:33>> Oh,
1:14:34>> and then the kids are attacked.
1:14:38>> That's so shitty.
1:14:39>> So now they're no longer only looking at
1:14:43physical evidence and timeline problems.
1:14:45They're also looking at Diane
1:14:46emotionally. The collapse of the
1:14:48relationship, her fixation on Nick, the
1:14:50fact that people around her repeatedly
1:14:52described somebody who didn't handle
1:14:54rejection well at all. M.
1:14:57>> And the more they dig into Diane's life
1:14:59leading up to May 19th, the harder it
1:15:01becomes for them to shake the feeling
1:15:02that whatever happened on Old Mohawk
1:15:04Road may not have involved this stranger
1:15:07at all.
1:15:09>> Wait, what?
1:15:13>> So,
1:15:16okay. Question.
1:15:17>> Yeah.
1:15:18>> What does Nick look like? Do we know
1:15:21>> what does Nick look like? just
1:15:24>> Oh, that's not at all what I thought you
1:15:25said.
1:15:26>> Oh, no. No, Nick. And I think No.
1:15:29>> What's his dick look like?
1:15:30>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't
1:15:32care.
1:15:33>> Let's find out.
1:15:33>> That's not important to the story.
1:15:35>> It's a spotted burrito.
1:15:39Past your prime. Are you Jesus?
1:15:44>> Well, no, cuz
1:15:46Okay,
1:15:48>> but that's that's where my mind just
1:15:49went. It was like, "Oh my god, what does
1:15:51Nick look like if he's the one who said,
1:15:53"I don't want to
1:15:55>> have this automatic family."
1:15:57>> Yeah.
1:15:57>> But he was married,
1:15:59>> right?
1:15:59>> Yeah. Exactly. I I
1:16:01>> You know, I I I meant to look that up,
1:16:03too. I meant to look to see if uh if his
1:16:06wife ever figured
1:16:09it out,
1:16:11>> but uh for Yeah, I wonder how public
1:16:13Diane was saying his name like media
1:16:17wise or
1:16:18>> Yeah. So, uh, here's what he looks like.
1:16:21>> Oh, okay.
1:16:22>> Kind of a normal looking dude. And I'll
1:16:24I'll put pictures on the Instagram.
1:16:26>> Looks just very average.
1:16:28>> Uh, he's dead now.
1:16:30>> Oh, may you rest in peace.
1:16:32>> Yeah. And Yeah. So,
1:16:36>> I was just curious if if the description
1:16:39that she was giving about this strange
1:16:40man coming up demanding the keys and
1:16:42then shooting everyone
1:16:46because of her obsession with him if she
1:16:49was just like this is,
1:16:52you know, what he looked like or did he
1:16:55really hunt her down or, you know, I
1:16:57don't know.
1:17:00>> So, um, actually
1:17:03>> Yeah. So,
1:17:05I said it may not have involved a
1:17:08stranger at all. Boom. Boom. Boom.
1:17:10>> Yeah.
1:17:11>> And you know what? I think we're going
1:17:13to leave you guys on a cliffhanger.
1:17:16>> I like it.
1:17:18>> Because uh realistically speaking, there
1:17:20is probably about an hour and 20 minutes
1:17:24left of show.
1:17:26>> Oh my goodness.
1:17:27>> Of this case to tell.
1:17:29>> I think this is a good place to tell.
1:17:31and we have been at it for about an hour
1:17:34and 20 minutes. So, I think one more
1:17:36time,
1:17:38even though I don't really agree with
1:17:40it, we'll do uh we're going to have to
1:17:42turn this into a two-parter.
1:17:44>> Mhm.
1:17:44>> And we will record the second part of
1:17:47this immediately
1:17:49and set it to autopublish so that you
1:17:51guys have something to listen to while
1:17:54we are at CrabCon. And then our
1:17:56immediate episode, the week after that,
1:18:00>> will be a non-traditional episode where
1:18:02we talk about our adventure at Crime Con
1:18:04and what we saw and all the juicy things
1:18:07that we learned and all the excitement
1:18:10>> and uh we'll talk about that for a whole
1:18:13episode.
1:18:13>> That's going to be awesome.
1:18:14>> And then we'll get back on track.
1:18:15>> Mhm.
1:18:17>> So, um
1:18:19>> cliffhanger
1:18:20>> Patreon
1:18:22again. uh no Patreon episode this last
1:18:25Friday.
1:18:27We're uh in the process of I'm trying to
1:18:30tinker with it a little bit.
1:18:33>> Full disclosure, Patreon weeks are very
1:18:35hard on me.
1:18:36>> Yes.
1:18:37>> Because it's doubling down on Gruesome
1:18:40>> and it's a lot of work.
1:18:42>> Yeah. So
1:18:43>> that's two separate stories.
1:18:44>> Yeah. So sometimes
1:18:47having to do the Patreon episode,
1:18:51it honestly [ __ ] with my flow for
1:18:53getting uh new episodes of the regular
1:18:56show done and then I fall behind. So
1:19:00>> that is why and but rest assured those
1:19:04of you who are uh paying to be a Patreon
1:19:06member,
1:19:07>> new episodes are coming again. Please be
1:19:10patient with us as we uh work to improve
1:19:14the Patreon experience.
1:19:16>> Yes, absolutely.
1:19:17>> And I I'll tell you this, the price that
1:19:19you pay for it is going down also.
1:19:23>> I'm going to try to make it more
1:19:24accessible to more people.
1:19:25>> Marvelous. Oh, that's so awesome. I like
1:19:27that.
1:19:27>> Yeah.
1:19:28>> Yay.
1:19:29>> So, there's that.
1:19:30>> Uh
1:19:32what else?
1:19:35What else? What else?
1:19:36>> I can't think of anything. I mean, I
1:19:39can't wait to do a little mini pints
1:19:42episode about uh
1:19:45>> Oh, yeah. Do you want to tell them?
1:19:48>> I think so. Let me give them a little
1:19:49>> Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Pre uh honk
1:19:52your horn.
1:19:53>> Toot your horn.
1:19:55>> I will I will toot their
1:19:57>> Yeah, because it's a it's a good one.
1:19:58>> Um I'm super excited. and been looking
1:20:00into the extraterrestrial highway. And
1:20:03since we're going to be so close, be to
1:20:06hopefully, knock on wood, that we get to
1:20:08uh drive part of that, go see some
1:20:10things firsthand. And that is uh that's
1:20:14what I want to tell you stories about,
1:20:16you know, and being able to be there
1:20:17firstand too is going to be exciting for
1:20:19me. It's outside the Pacific Northwest,
1:20:22which is uh
1:20:24>> is this the whole niche of our show, but
1:20:28we're a Pacific Northwest podcast going
1:20:31to a true crime convention and this is
1:20:33part of the trip that we're
1:20:36>> taking. Yeah, it's part of the
1:20:37experience. So,
1:20:38>> and it's weird and odd to
1:20:39>> You should do a mini pines. Yeah. It
1:20:41fits in your
1:20:43>> my genre.
1:20:44>> In your genre. So, I say do it.
1:20:47>> Why not? I'm excited about it. Hell
1:20:49yeah. What? And the listeners will be
1:20:51excited to hear it.
1:20:52>> I think so. I can't Ah, I'm so excited.
1:20:55I can't wait.
1:20:56>> Yeah.
1:20:58>> So, that's this week's episode. The
1:21:00start of [ __ ] this crazy [ __ ]
1:21:04>> I know. I'm so glad that we're going to
1:21:06record and then, you know,
1:21:08>> this will work out good actually because
1:21:09I really do want to play that clip of uh
1:21:12Ann Rule
1:21:14>> versus Diane DS on this next episode.
1:21:18I'm so excited.
1:21:19>> Oh, it's
1:21:21>> I I can't wait to hear exactly what has
1:21:24happened. So,
1:21:25>> yeah, like there is, you know, like had
1:21:28this happened like had what happened
1:21:33>> if you take it out of that timeline and
1:21:35put it present day.
1:21:36>> Oh my god.
1:21:37>> Holy [ __ ] The the
1:21:42>> Yeah.
1:21:43>> It'd be crazy.
1:21:44>> Oh my god. It'd be so much more viral
1:21:46than it was cuz when I tell you like the
1:21:48like people were obsessed with this
1:21:49woman,
1:21:51>> she was it's
1:21:52>> crazy.
1:21:54>> Almost weirdly like uh you know how
1:21:56women were obsessed with Bundy.
1:21:58>> Like they didn't give a [ __ ] that he
1:22:00killed people. No.
1:22:00>> Like it could have been them. They did
1:22:02not give a [ __ ] because he was charming
1:22:05and he was cute and they looked past all
1:22:08that. And that's kind of almost what
1:22:10people do with this woman.
1:22:12>> Like they're like no. Like Yeah. Like
1:22:15>> that makes Oh,
1:22:17>> and the the second the second episode of
1:22:20this is going to infuriate you.
1:22:24>> Okay.
1:22:25>> [ __ ] infuriate you. And it involves
1:22:27Duran Duran,
1:22:31>> but it ain't their fault.
1:22:32>> No, it's not their fault. Oh my god.
1:22:36>> So, that's something to look forward to.
1:22:39>> Yeah.
1:22:40>> That's the hook that'll bring them back
1:22:41for the next episode. But I wonder what
1:22:43what possibly could Duran Duran have to
1:22:45do with this?
1:22:46>> You'll never
1:22:47>> tune in next week to find out.
1:22:54>> So
1:22:56I believe that is all we have for you
1:22:58this week.
1:22:59>> Thanks for listening.
1:23:00>> Thanks for listening and uh join us
1:23:03again next week.
1:23:06>> Like what you just heard? Be sure to
1:23:08check out our social media pages and
1:23:09like, follow, subscribe, and share us on
1:23:12Tik Tok at Shadowsinthepines on
1:23:14Instagram and Facebook at
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1:23:18Or feel free to email the show at
1:23:19[email protected].
1:23:22And of course, if you want exclusive
1:23:24bonus episodes, be sure to join the
1:23:26inner circle on our Patreon at
1:23:28patreon.com/shadowsinthepines.
1:23:31Thanks for listening.
1:23:33Hey
1:23:35listeners, need a break? If you're
1:23:38looking to step away from the heavier
1:23:40cases for a bit, be sure to check out
1:23:42our pallet cleansing mini pines episodes
1:23:44hosted by Becca. No murder, just
1:23:47history, haunts, and strange stories
1:23:50from all across the Pacific Northwest.
1:23:52It's the same eerie atmosphere you love,
1:23:54just a little lighter, a little weirder,
1:23:57and sometimes even a little fun. New
1:23:59Mini Pines episodes drop every other
1:24:01Friday at 8:00 p.m. Pacific Standard
1:24:04Time. So, if you're not quite ready to
1:24:06leave the woods, but you want something
1:24:08a little different, tune in to Mini
1:24:10Pines right here on Shadows in the
1:24:12Pines. Because even without the
1:24:14darkness, the pines still have stories
1:24:17to tell.
1:24:54Natalie.

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