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Diane Downs 2020 Parole Hearing Audio │ Part 1: Programming, Work History, Disciplinary Record — Transcript

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0:19All right. I'm chairperson of the Orian
0:21Parole Board. My name is Michael Shu and
0:24we are ready to get started. Okay.
0:27Um, just to start, let me make sure. Are
0:30you Elizabeth Diane DS?
0:33Yes, I am. Do you know what if your
0:36Oregon SID number is 6546106?
0:43Yes.
0:43Okay. And did you receive the board's uh
0:47packet and notice of rights at least 14
0:49days ago?
0:52Yes, I did.
0:54Thank you. Uh once again, I'm board
0:56chairperson Michael Shu. I would also
0:58like to introduce the other board
1:00members who are present at your hearing
1:02today. Uh we have on the panel today
1:05board member Patty Crest.
1:09Uh
1:09good morning
1:10board member James Taylor.
1:13Good morning
1:15board member Greta Lowry.
1:18Good morning everyone.
1:19And also board member John Bailey.
1:24Good morning.
1:25Good morning.
1:27Um I'd also like to introduce our
1:30visitors today.
1:32Um we have
1:35um joining you I don't think you can see
1:37them but they are listening in to this
1:40call currently. We have from the Lane
1:42County District Attorney's Office,
1:44Deputy District Attorney Joanne Miller.
1:48Uh I believe your brother James
1:50Frederickson is also attending via the
1:52phone. Desiree Frederickson.
1:55Yep. I'm here.
1:57Thank you. Desire Frederickson, niece of
2:00uh you, is also on the phone.
2:05We have Ann Jagger, who is an interested
2:07party, and Doug Welch, also an
2:10interested party, listening in via the
2:13phone.
2:15Uh, it's my understanding that we also
2:17have other members of the public
2:19listening in as well.
2:23Um
2:25I I don't know who all of those u
2:28members of the public are but I'm told
2:30that it's about 20 people who are
2:32listening in. Okay.
2:35Okay.
2:39I also want to make sure that before we
2:42we begin I cover all the materials that
2:44you have submitted to the board. Um I
2:47have materials received from you
2:51or your brother. Um they are dated
2:54August 24th, September 1st, September
2:588th, September 14th. Those are all the
3:00dates that the board received those
3:02materials and we have reviewed them. We
3:05also have an email from your brother
3:06dated September 18th, 2020 and le
3:10letters of support from James
3:12Frederickson
3:14um and Desiree.
3:18We also have in the materials a letter
3:21of opposition to parole and a request
3:24for extended deferral
3:27for Elizabeth Diane DS from the Lane
3:29County's District's Attorney's Office.
3:32and they attached a transcript of your
3:342010 hearing.
3:37Is that your understanding, Miss Downs,
3:39of all the information that you
3:41submitted
3:43um
3:44as well as information that other
3:46parties have submitted?
3:49Yes.
3:50All right. Thank you.
3:52I just want to start by be by telling
3:55you also what this hearing will be
3:58about. This is time set for your parole
4:01consideration hearing. It's a hearing to
4:04decide whether the board finds that you
4:06are no longer dangerous or finds that
4:09you remain dangerous but that you can't
4:11be adequately controlled with
4:12supervision and treatment or finds that
4:15you are dangerous and will defer your
4:17parole consideration date further.
4:23We have received from the Department of
4:24Corrections an institutional report that
4:27is dated June 2nd, 2020, prepared by
4:30counselor K. Williams, and reviewed and
4:33approved by the director of the Oregon
4:35Department of Corrections, Colette
4:37Peters.
4:39Have you read that report?
4:42Yes, I have.
4:43Thank you. We also ordered and you
4:45participated in a psychological
4:47evaluation for today's hearing prepared
4:50by Dr. Gton dated August 17th, 2020. Did
4:54you have a chance to read Dr. Gton's
4:56report?
4:58Yes, I did.
5:00I also want to give you a road map of
5:03how this hearing will look like. Um, we
5:07will take turns asking you questions and
5:09I will be leading this hearing. We'll
5:12start by asking you about any
5:14programming that you've participated in,
5:17um, your work history.
5:19I do want to spend some time talking
5:21about your health.
5:23Then we'll talk in depth about the
5:25psychological report authored by Dr.
5:27Gton.
5:30We'll spend some time talking about your
5:31past criminal conduct. And we'll end by
5:35talking about any plans you might have
5:38if you are released.
5:42Um, I also just want to warn everybody
5:44on the call and also you as a wellness
5:46downs that because we are doing this
5:48through
5:50um, Skype, there are times where we will
5:53lose connection. If that's the case,
5:56typically we can establish a
5:59reconnection within a minute or so. Um,
6:03so if we do lose connection, just be
6:05patient with us as we try to get you
6:08back on our screens.
6:11If we do lose connection, I will pause
6:13the hearing while the collect the
6:16connection is lost and then we'll just
6:18start back up where we left off before
6:20the connection got disrupted. Okay.
6:24Yes.
6:24I don't know that it will, but I just
6:26want to warn everybody that that's what
6:27will happen if we do get disrupted.
6:32All right. So, with that, um, I think
6:35the board will begin asking you some
6:36questions. All right. Are you are you
6:38ready?
6:40All right.
6:40All right. So, let's start off by
6:43talking about your, uh, programming, if
6:46any, that you've participated in the
6:47institution.
6:49So, are have there been programs down
6:51there in California that you've
6:53participated in?
6:56um programs such as uh mental health
7:00programs, self-help programs, school
7:02programs, all programs.
7:05Yeah. Why don't we start with um mental
7:07health if you've participated in any?
7:10Okay. Uh mental health programs. I've
7:14been seen by Dr. Shoi, uh Dr. Rossi.
7:18Um I spent time when across the street
7:23uh Dr. Rossi was a geriatric psych and I
7:28lived in the elder dorm and so we saw
7:31each other every day. She and I started
7:33a crochet program to help um the elders.
7:37Uh learning a new skill is something
7:40that helps derail Alzheimer's. And so we
7:44started a crochet program to help the
7:46the ladies um learn a new skill. So she
7:50and I worked really closely hand in
7:52hand. Um I wouldn't say that it was
7:55necessarily psychiatric treatment but
7:59she is she was a psych that's she lived
8:03and breathed her her her craft. So
8:06everything that I said and did she would
8:08say so how did that make you feel? So
8:11kind of it was continual uh care. Um, I
8:16took they have something here called
8:19LTOP. Um, it's
8:23it's kind of an organized there are
8:25classes, criminal thinking, um, things
8:30like that. And so they're classes that
8:32you take for weeks. They're it's weeks
8:34long and you go uh two or three times a
8:38week. And they're it's kind it's a
8:42federally funded program as far as I
8:44know. They have real psychiatrists and
8:47psychologists and sociologists that come
8:49in and teach these classes. And there we
8:53have groups of 12 12 inmates and the the
8:57um sponsor and we work together. We ask
9:02each other questions. Uh trust me, an
9:04inmate's going to ask you questions that
9:06a real person isn't going to ask you.
9:08So, it's a very in-depth program and
9:12that's pretty much the extent of the
9:15psychiatric
9:17psych. Okay, thank you. You mentioned
9:20psych.
9:22You mentioned that part of the class is
9:25to teach you about criminal thinking.
9:28Can you elaborate a little bit more
9:30about that?
9:32Oh, yes. Um, criminal thinking is
9:36anything that deviates from the norm.
9:38Uh, for instance, sticking a biscuit in
9:41your bra before you leave the chow hall
9:43is criminal thinking because you're not
9:45supposed to take food out of the chow
9:47hall. And it might seem minor, but it
9:49made us aware that there are so many
9:52things we do on a daily basis. Parking
9:54in a handicapped
9:56um parking lot, parking spot when you're
9:59not handicapped, that's criminal
10:01thinking. And so it made us look deeper
10:04into ourselves, things that we might
10:06excuse as, well, what's the big deal? It
10:08is a big deal because it sets a pattern
10:11for how you view bigger things in life.
10:15So that's criminal thinking actually
10:17makes you sit and think about every
10:19single thing that you do during the day.
10:23Is that appropriate? Is that socially
10:25acceptable or is it unacceptable? might
10:28not seem little to you, but it might be
10:29something that's really big to somebody
10:31else. And every little stone adds up to
10:33one big landslide.
10:36So,
10:40thank you.
10:42And any other types of programming that
10:44you've participated in?
10:48Um,
10:50I've taken like vocational classes
10:58uh related to what types of vocation?
11:03I've uh taken the computer class hoping
11:06because I know the world out there has
11:08changed a lot in 36 and 37 years. Uh I
11:12took a computer class to try to
11:14understand computers better. Um I took
11:17an electronics class because it actually
11:20goes with the computer class. you're
11:22going to spend $500 to have a guy come
11:24out and replace a cable that you can
11:26replace for $20. So, I took the
11:27electronics class to go handinhand with
11:30the computer class. Uh after that, I
11:33took the carpentry class. Um finished
11:36all these classes and that's pretty much
11:39all they had. So, then I went into um
11:42skills training which was plant
11:44operations.
11:49Okay. Thank you.
11:51Um, anything else that we should be
11:52aware of that you've taken um,
11:56regarding programming?
11:59Well, in plant operations, it's kind of
12:02a craft school. I mean, you learn to be
12:04a plumber, an electrician, a painter.
12:08Um, and I spent probably two years in
12:13that. So, I learned a lot of skills.
12:17skills that that I didn't know before,
12:19skills that I got pretty good at.
12:24Okay.
12:31What did you find most rewarding about
12:32the programming or classes that you've
12:34taken?
12:40I would say most rewarding. Well, it
12:44depends on which kind of rewarding.
12:45emotionally rewarding LTOP because in
12:48that class there was no judgment. You
12:51could literally say there's a lot of
12:53things that I'm not allowed to talk
12:55about in prison because I'm quote
12:58unquote Diane DS. I can't talk about my
13:01children. I I can't talk about anything
13:04that that is
13:07uh emotional for me because I always
13:10have to maintain an image of strength.
13:15And in LTOP there was no judgment. We
13:18that was just one of the rules of the of
13:20the class. And so you I was able to
13:23speak about things that I wasn't able to
13:26speak that I can't speak about in
13:27general population. So emotionally that
13:30was rewarding. Um
13:34I I enjoy physical work. So PLO ops was
13:37physically rewarding for me. Uh I worked
13:41for IDL inmate day labor. I was a ditch
13:44digger. I loved it. I can I can slam I
13:47can literally put
13:50uh industrial strength pipe in the
13:52ground. That's what I learned. I'm I
13:56could work for CALR
13:58and I enjoyed that physically. I I enjoy
14:01the labor. So, it I
14:05I guess that's it. I guess those are the
14:07two things that I enjoy the most.
14:08Gardening is for the soul. I garden just
14:11as a as a hobby. Um we have in this
14:14prison we have trees, flowers, plants,
14:17shrubs, and spiritually I enjoy that
14:21because that's where you get to commune
14:23with the big guy upstairs and really
14:27search your soul. So spiritually I enjoy
14:30landscaping.
14:36How long ago did you take Ltop? Is that
14:39what it's called? L I we're here in
14:41Oregon, so I'm not familiar with all the
14:43names of the programs down in
14:45California.
14:47Yes. L T O P. Uh I was in LTOP for close
14:53to a year. Close to a year.
14:56When was this?
14:59Um two years ago.
15:04Uh the the group has been deactivated.
15:09Um, it's become something else and I
15:12can't remember. They have another name
15:13for it now and it's under a different
15:15program. I I can't remember the name.
15:18Okay.
15:19But if you call anybody here, they'll
15:20know what LTOP is. In fact, the new
15:22program they kind of still call LTOP
15:24because it's sort of the same um format.
15:29Got it.
15:31All right. Um, I don't have any further
15:34questions for you about programming. Do
15:37the other board members have any
15:38questions? Let's start with Miss Crest.
15:45Uh, Miss Towns, is there any program
15:47that you're currently at this time
15:49involved in?
15:51Um, crocheting, we didn't talk about
15:53that. Those are volunteer programs. Um,
15:55we're locked down right now. CO's CO's
15:59real and CO, you see my little mask
16:02here? and uh we're pretty much locked
16:05down most of the time and so I'm still
16:08able to crochet. I'm still able to
16:10landscape.
16:12Um we still do um volunteer help. There
16:15are people in the unit that are able to
16:17take um their schooling through um uh
16:22correspondence. Uh the teachers bring
16:24their classes on Fridays and pick them
16:27up on Fridays and so I help tutor in
16:29between that. So, those are the programs
16:30that I'm involved in right now. I am
16:33still assigned to uh bicycle
16:37refurbishing. Um the sheriff's
16:40department brings the bicycles that are
16:43when they do raids of places, drug
16:46houses and stuff and they find bicycles
16:48that have been stolen. They take them to
16:50the police department. They wait 60 days
16:53for somebody to come claim them. If they
16:55don't, then they bring them to us and
16:57different prisons around the valley. We
16:59re restore them, fix them, um, and we
17:04give them to children at Christmas time.
17:06So, I'm still assigned to that program,
17:09but until we're able to go back to work,
17:13they're
17:15I am confined to my unit for the most
17:18part.
17:19So, it's just volunteerism is all I do.
17:23So, my next question is, what does your
17:25typical day look like?
17:29I crochet a lot. Um, a lot. I've
17:34crocheted probably 300 blankets. Um,
17:37they're for the Lionus program. It's for
17:40children. Some of some of the blankets
17:42go to children that are born to their
17:44mothers were in the slave trade for
17:47prostitution. Some when they have
17:49hurricanes, some of our blankets go to
17:51the children of uh hurricane victims. So
17:55I do a lot of crocheting. Uh I do a lot
17:58of studying. Um
18:02just uh it studying I I don't know it
18:06probably doesn't mean much to anybody
18:08else but it keeps the mind active and it
18:12poses question. I study history. It
18:14poses questions. Well how would I feel
18:16if I was living in those days? Um so
18:23thank you. Those are my questions.
18:26Board member Taylor.
18:31Yes. Uh, thank you,
18:33Miss DS. I do want to commend you on
18:35getting your AA degree. It's been some
18:38time, but that is a major accomplishment
18:41within the institution. So, I want to
18:43congratulate you on that. It's noted in
18:46your packet that you did complete a
18:4912-week program called From the Inside
18:52Out Relationships.
18:54Can you tell the board about that
18:56program and what you got out of that?
19:01That program is um it's sponsored by
19:06there was an associate warden across the
19:08street. After she retired, she brought
19:10that program to this prison. Um it helps
19:14with anger management. Um um violence uh
19:18it their classes. What did I get out of
19:21it? Um it made me more aware that
19:27for for example grief I thought I had
19:31put grief on hold all these years
19:34because I don't sit around crying.
19:38I'm angry. I'm frustrated. And I found
19:41out that's part of grief. That's one of
19:43the one of the stages of grief. And I'm
19:46just stuck in it because I'm not allowed
19:47to process, which is another word that I
19:50learned in these programs. So, what did
19:52I learn from it? I learned that it's
19:54okay to feel angry, but it's not okay to
19:57stay angry. You need to find out what it
19:59is that makes you angry and move past
20:01that. And what makes me angry is
20:05not being able to process. And so I have
20:08found people that I feel safe enough to
20:10process with. One is the associate
20:12warden from across the street. Um other
20:15LTOPS um the inside out helped me open
20:19up during LTOP. It wasn't just that we
20:22had permission in LTOP to speak freely,
20:25but I felt I gave myself permission. And
20:28so I learned from inside out that it's
20:32okay to reach out to somebody else. I
20:33don't have to fix everything myself. I
20:35don't have to be okay all the time by
20:37myself. It's okay to go to somebody else
20:40and say, "Look, I don't get this there.
20:43I'm confused about this. I don't
20:45understand this. I feel pain. I feel
20:47grief. I feel sorrow. I feel whatever I
20:50feel. It's okay to feel those things."
20:53And to share it with somebody who's on
20:54the outside of my pain that can say, "I
20:58get what you're saying. Have you looked
21:00at it this way?" It's like no I didn't.
21:05And so basically it was a the class and
21:10there were several classes but it's more
21:12of a looking inside your soul. So yeah
21:17sometimes um individuals may find
21:19themselves getting angry when there's no
21:22one around to talk to. So, did you learn
21:26any skills that you could employ if you
21:31were alone or with someone else and you
21:34got angry? How could you
21:36spiral?
21:37Yeah.
21:37Yes. How what skills did you learn to
21:39not allow you to spiral?
21:41Yes. Uh mostly is stop. Just stop. You
21:47have control over your own anger. When
21:49you get angry and lose control, you give
21:52someone else permission to take control
21:53of you. So just stop.
21:58Figure out what it is that makes you
21:59angry. Figure out on a level from 1 to
22:0110. Is it really that important? Is it
22:04going to matter 10 years from now? Um
22:09basically just stop, meditate, go inside
22:13yourself and figure it out because
22:15usually the anger is you. It's not
22:17somebody else making you angry. It's you
22:19making you angry or me making me angry.
22:22So figure it out. What is it about the
22:24situation that I'm allowing myself to be
22:27that way and just plain stop?
22:36Now, there was a class that you took on
22:39in 2016
22:42called victim management.
22:46I'm not sure if you recall that class.
22:48Yeah.
22:49But talk to the board about what that
22:52class entailed.
22:56It's called victim impact actually. And
22:59uh
23:02basically it's it teaches us
23:06to step inside the victim's shoes. Uh we
23:09saw lots of videos of um people that had
23:14been victimized, uh robberies,
23:17uh family members that were killed, uh
23:20rapes, and we we watch these videos and
23:23we would discuss among ourselves and and
23:25sometimes it would be a crime that
23:28someone in the room had been convicted
23:31of. And so we would they would talk
23:33about what their
23:36how did how does it make you feel to
23:38know that Mrs. X lost her husband the
23:42same way that you took someone's
23:45husband? And so it it put us in the
23:50shoes of the victim.
23:52Um,
23:54we were trying to There are a lot of
23:57prisons who allow the victims to come to
24:00the prison and have one-on- ons with
24:02their victimizers
24:04and in controlled situations. And Elto
24:08was trying to work that out with the
24:09prisons so that this could happen for
24:12the victims as much as for the inmates
24:15because sometimes in the abstract it's
24:20it's not as impactful
24:23as
24:24if one of these squares here was one of
24:27my children.
24:29That
24:32that would be powerful.
24:36I mean, you're I respect your position.
24:40I respect the the job that you have to
24:42do, but you're also kind of seeing it
24:46from the outside. You're not seeing it
24:49from Christy's and Danny's point of
24:50view.
24:52And so it we were trying to work it out
24:56with the prisons so that some of the
24:59girls, my children are are in Oregon.
25:01That was never going to be a
25:02possibility. but trying to work it out
25:05so that some of the
25:07people the prisoners will be able to see
25:10their victims
25:12even on a screen like this so that they
25:14would be able to listen to the victims
25:17shout at them and say I'm angry I hate
25:20you
25:22so that we would finally be able talking
25:26to you is meaningfulish
25:29but not nearly as impactful as if you
25:32were Daniel or Christie, that would be
25:36massive.
25:38That would
25:40dig to the soul. Those are the things
25:43that we learned in victim impact is that
25:46those people, Mrs. X, we feel her pain.
25:52But if Mrs. X had been Christy or Daniel
25:55and we were able to sort of transpose
26:02Mrs. X into
26:05ED Daniel or whomever. So that's what we
26:09got out of it was basically being able
26:11to put ourselves in a victim's place.
26:16And and there's more than just the
26:18victim. My parents were victims. the
26:21district attorney was a victim. The the
26:24media was a victim. There's because
26:28those are all people that had to bear
26:31witness and feel.
26:35So that's what was those were the things
26:38that we learned in that class.
26:41And this was kind of a difficult
26:43question. And I wasn't really intending
26:44to ask you, but since you were talking
26:46about victims and how difficult it is,
26:49you know, obviously you were accused and
26:52convicted of, you know, murdering your
26:54child and attempted murder of your other
26:56children. So with those dynamics, I
27:00would assume that was much more
27:02difficult for you to
27:04put yourself in the victim's position
27:08since you were the mother of the
27:09children.
27:11Yes. That's why
27:17that's why we were hoping to be able to
27:21even to communicate by Skype.
27:29I cannot put myself in Christiey's place
27:32or Daniel's place.
27:34But if Chrissy or Daniel were sitting
27:36here, I would be able to say things to
27:40them that would seem
27:43irrelevant to you. I mean, yes,
27:46I would say I was sorry, but it wouldn't
27:49but if if they were sitting there, it
27:51wouldn't be just I'm sorry. It would be
27:52from the soul. I'm sorry. If if I knew
27:56that Christy and Daddy were be going to
27:58be able to to see this, if that was part
28:02of this, I would have something to say
28:05to them for them. But more than that, I
28:09would want to know what they had to say.
28:12Like, do you hate me? You have a right
28:14to hate me. Do you do you never want to
28:18forgive me? You have a right to never
28:19want
28:21to never want to forgive me ever in
28:23life. They have a right and I want them
28:27to know they have that right that I'm
28:31not too sorry if I could take it back.
28:36I would take everything back. I was
28:38stupid. I was a foolish woman. I lived a
28:41careless life. I thought I was putting
28:44my children first because I took them
28:46everywhere with me. But when you live a
28:48foolish, careless life and you take your
28:50children with you, I I was always
28:53physically combative with my ex-husband.
28:55I could fight. My three my
28:59three-year-old couldn't fight. Well,
29:01right that I had to take him somewhere
29:04to take him someplace that he couldn't
29:06fight. Yeah, I could fight. He Cheryl
29:09couldn't fight. Christy couldn't fight.
29:12It was foolish and stupid of me to take
29:16them into my careless, foolish life. I
29:20was wrong. They have a right to be angry
29:23at me. They have a right to hate me. And
29:26I wouldn't even try to change their
29:28minds.
29:37And yet they're not here. In California,
29:40the victims come, they come to the
29:43hearings, they get to say, "I hate you."
29:46That doesn't happen here.
29:48My words are are for Chucka Community
29:51College. Who cares? They don't care.
29:54They just want something to gossip about
29:55later. My children have a right to say
30:00what they want to say to me. My children
30:02have a right to to see that I am I am so
30:05sorry. My heart is broken every single
30:08day. only I can't tell people that in
30:10population
30:12because they don't care first of all
30:14they just want to gossip too.
30:18I'm sorry. What was the question?
30:22I mean, I think you've answered it, but
30:24you know, my my last question before I
30:26turn it over to the other board members
30:28is um you know, you've taken some
30:32programming, but the record show and I
30:35want to make sure I'm not incorrect, but
30:38from 1996
30:42to 2008, which is a 12-ear period,
30:46you weren't you weren't involved in any
30:48programming at all, at least any formal
30:50programming. I know there were some
30:53transfers and some other things, but
30:54could you tell the board why you elected
30:56not to participate in programs for 12
30:59years?
31:01There were no programs. There were no
31:04programs offered all the programs that
31:05we have here. Inmates started and um
31:10staff members, I was across the street
31:11at VSPW, inmates started the programs
31:15and they worked with the associate
31:17warden to bring outsiders in. Uh that's
31:21when they started the SAP program which
31:23was for drug offenders. But because they
31:25brought the SAP program into the
31:27facility in 19
31:3199
31:33or 2000, that's when the facility
31:36started being more open to having more
31:38rehabilitative programs. And so when the
31:41st when the inmates would uh work with
31:44people on the outside to bring programs
31:47in um cyros um free the heart different
31:50programs it was the inmates that started
31:53the programs and so there weren't any up
31:55until that part there there just weren't
31:57any.
32:00And the last question I promise is um
32:04you know the the purpose of programming
32:08as you can understand is to allow the
32:11individual to become a better person
32:15than they were when they entered the
32:17institution
32:18to
32:20learn and understand what kind of person
32:22they were.
32:25hopefully transgress through the issues
32:28they had and come out on the other end a
32:31better person. So for you, you know,
32:34after, you know, 35 plus years,
32:40can you say that you're a better person
32:44at this end of the journey than you were
32:46when you entered the institutions?
32:51I know I'm a better person if for no
32:54other reason than that. I know that I
32:57was a foolish, careless woman. And I'm
33:00not anymore. I'm older. I'm more
33:05experienced.
33:06Believe it or not, living with criminals
33:08gives you a a real insight into
33:12what a whole lot of the real world is
33:14like out there. Now, um I
33:19I would I think now before I act,
33:24um
33:25I've had to think before I act. Like I
33:27said, in prison, I'm not allowed to
33:31feel or express certain things without
33:34retribution from inmates. And so I think
33:40before I act I I
33:43about everything.
33:45You think about what you wear. You think
33:47about how you wear your hair. It's it
33:50seems ridiculous to you, but it's a
33:53lifestyle in here. And so when you think
33:56about something as simple as how do you
33:57wear your hair before you leave your
33:59unit? What kind of shoes are you wearing
34:02before you leave your unit?
34:04It makes you think about everything.
34:08And so that's what I didn't do before. I
34:10didn't think about anything. I I just
34:14lived
34:15uh free spirit um by the by the cuff.
34:20And that's what caused
34:23me to make bad choices cuz I wasn't
34:25making choices. I was just bouncing
34:27around. So I believe that my programming
34:30the the classes that I've taken and even
34:34just working in plant operations because
34:37in plant operations we have to go to
34:39every yard and you're dealing with a
34:41whole different set of people. They have
34:43four different yards here and they're
34:45like four different cities. They
34:48literally have their own flavor, their
34:50own attitudes, their own kind of of
34:53inmates. And so every time you go to a
34:57different yard to work, you're dealing
34:59with a whole different crew of people
35:03and
35:05you think before you go. You you make
35:08plans. You don't just bop in and bop
35:11out. And so I think everything that I've
35:13done in prison has made me a better
35:16person because I think now,
35:20which I wasn't doing before.
35:24Thank you board membershu. That's all I
35:26have. Board member Lowry.
35:36[Music]
35:38Uhoh. We lost him.
35:40I'm back. Can you hear me, Miss Stones?
35:43I can hear you. I There you go. I got
35:46this whole I got this whole big black
35:49thing here. And so you're really little,
35:51but I can see you. So if I I am not
35:53looking into the camera, you're right
35:55there. So Okay.
35:57Okay. That's just fine. We're used to
35:59that at this point. Okay. So I just I
36:02have some um I guess I I want to push
36:06back a little bit on something that you
36:07just talked about with board member
36:09Taylor. He said, "Why didn't you take
36:10any programs during this 12-ear period
36:12of time?" And you said, "There were no
36:14programs offered. I didn't take any
36:16programs because there were no
36:17programs." Then you explained to us um
36:21how all the programs were created by all
36:24the adults in custody and really cobbled
36:26it together. Um so I want I want to read
36:29something to you from the institutional
36:31report and then kind of talk about it a
36:34little bit. So institutional report page
36:3672 of the board packet says Miss Downs
36:39escape history has been severe during
36:40her 36-year incarceration. Miss D has
36:43physically escaped from a secure
36:44perimeter fence, planned three escape
36:46attempts, and was found in possession of
36:48an escape device. Due to this behavior,
36:50she has extended periods of special
36:52housing placement and was therefore
36:54ineligible to participate in
36:56programming. In August 1993, Miss Downs
36:59was transferred to California and placed
37:00in their maximum special housing unit.
37:02She received three major disciplinary
37:04actions while housed in SHU. As a result
37:07of her special housing assignment, she
37:09was not able to participate in
37:11programming or work assignments. From
37:141996 to 2008, Miss Downs had not
37:16participated in any educational,
37:18vocational, self-help, or clubs while in
37:21general population,
37:23even though program availability options
37:25included NAA, parenting education,
37:28substance abuse classes, medication
37:30classes, meditation classes, anger
37:32management, vocational programs. Um,
37:35Miss D also received three disciplinary
37:37sanctions during these years. At times,
37:40Miss Down refused to appear for these
37:41program reviews. And then it follows up
37:44with during a telephonic interview in
37:462008. She was questioned about her
37:48program and work history. Miss DS
37:51expressed that she has not taken any
37:52programs because quote there was no
37:54benefit to me. Miss Downs says she reads
37:56and studies politics and human nature.
37:59Um, Miss Downs said, quote, "If the
38:01parole board had wanted you to take
38:02programs, they should have stated that
38:04earlier." Miss Downs also reported that
38:06Oregon law guidelines do not show that
38:08programs are necessary to satisfy the
38:10parole board. She further added, "If I
38:12was in Oregon, this would not be
38:14required of me." So,
38:18my re of that is not there were no
38:21programs offered. I didn't take any
38:22because there were no. It seems to me
38:24that you weren't eligible for programs
38:25due to your own behavior and choices for
38:27an extended period of time and that
38:29frankly you didn't seem interested in
38:32taking them and you didn't have to
38:34impress the parole board by taking them.
38:35You didn't think it wasn't required of
38:37you. It seemed like you had no internal
38:38driver to want to engage in reform. So
38:41my ultimate question after all of that
38:43preamble is when did you really start
38:47willfully engaging in programming and
38:49reformation activities? When did your
38:51attitude change?
38:52[Music]
38:54I was close A custody close A up until
38:59the year 2000. Uh oh, she's gone. Can
39:01she hear me?
39:04I can hear you.
39:06Okay, you're gone. That's why I'm
39:07asking. Um, I was close a custody up
39:10until the year 2000.
39:13As close a custody, I was I was confined
39:16to the yard. All the vocational classes
39:19were behind work change.
39:23I don't know how to describe it except
39:25every yard is
39:28has a gate on both ends.
39:31In order to go to vocational classes and
39:33different programs, you have to go
39:35through the the work change.
39:39I can't close custody. Can't go back
39:42there. So, I literally did not have
39:45access to them. I there was nothing that
39:48I could do even if I requested it. In
39:50fact, I did request I was escorted by an
39:53officer to go to go see one of the the
39:56teachers back there and she says as soon
39:58as you get off close a custody then you
40:00can come back here. So I literally
40:03couldn't I don't care what the report
40:05says.
40:07I couldn't up until the year 2000 I
40:10couldn't. As far as the other AA and NA
40:14they were on the other side of the gate
40:16also closed custody. They're at night
40:18time. Um, close custody, close a cannot
40:22leave your cell after 400 p.m. This is
40:24where this it's not like this anymore,
40:26but back in the day when this was all
40:28happening, I could not leave my cell
40:31after 4:00 count, 4:30 count. I could go
40:34to Chiao and had to come back. So all
40:36the programs that they offered were on
40:39the east gate over in visiting at 7 at
40:437:00 p.m. I could not go or it was
40:46during the day on the west gate on the
40:48other side of work change and I could
40:50not go. I literally could not take any
40:54classes. There's
40:57you can check with the warden back in
40:59the day but that's really the truth. The
41:02classes that we began teaching each
41:04other started in you asked when when I
41:08when I be when I became involved with
41:11programs. The classes we started
41:13teaching each other were probably I was
41:16in D1
41:18during the honor dorm period. So that
41:21was about 2005.
41:23But they were classes that you didn't
41:25get a chrono. So you don't have anything
41:26in your file.
41:28um they weren't taught by um
41:33psychiatrists or psychologists. Those
41:36classes didn't begin until
41:39200
41:41Well, when No, we didn't even have
41:43classes then. Really? We didn't have
41:47staff sponsored classes up until about
41:50200
41:5515
41:5714. That's when we started having staff
41:59sponsored classes.
42:01So I became close B custody in 2000 in
42:06the year 2000 and I was able to go
42:08through work change but by that time the
42:11reason they took me off close A custody
42:12is because they needed me to be a clerk.
42:15So as a clerk I was locked in for two
42:18years as a clerk and I couldn't take any
42:20vocational classes because institutional
42:22need. There you go.
42:26Okay. So you just said um I don't care
42:28what the report says. So is it your I
42:30guess opinion that the institutional
42:32report that we got is inaccurate as to
42:36your programming history and your
42:37attitude.
42:40My attitude was probably frustrated
42:42because I was trying to explain
42:44something to somebody that wasn't
42:46understanding
42:47how it works here in Oregon, here in
42:50California, and that she kept trying to
42:54make me comply with her view of
42:58what just wasn't real. I mean, I
43:01explained to you about the gates, closed
43:03custody, but it's nothing that if you're
43:06not here, it's harder for you to
43:09visualize it.
43:12And I was frustrated. This is before my
43:14program. This is before my classes. This
43:17is before I learned how to deal with my
43:19frustration.
43:21So now, I took the time to explain all
43:25the procedures to you. Back then, I
43:28didn't
43:34Uh, thank you. Uh, Mr. Bailey,
43:38thank you. Um, Miss Downs, you talked a
43:40little bit about the criminal thinking,
43:43um, programming that you engaged in and
43:45what you got out of that programming.
43:47Um, and you know, my question for you
43:50is, what did you learn about your own
43:52criminal thinking from some of your own
43:54decisions
43:56that have been negative or have resulted
43:58in trouble for you? Um, what did you
44:01learn about your own thinking? What what
44:02was the thinking that was driving some
44:04of those decisions for yourself?
44:07[Music]
44:10Wow. Um
44:14I guess
44:17min minimizing I know that's a word you
44:20guys use a lot but it's something that
44:21we also use. Um if you were to
44:27try to use an example
44:29taking stuff out of the chow hall that's
44:32so minimizing um trying to make
44:34something that seems small in my own
44:38life. Um,
44:41I had wooden shelves in my locker.
44:44That's not legal.
44:46But it organized everything. And so I
44:48was able to say, "Yes, but when they
44:50search my cell, everything is organized
44:53and so therefore it makes it easier for
44:54them." So justifying
44:58it seems ridiculous to you, but the
45:02shelves were illegal. They came and did
45:03a big search. They took my shelves
45:06because they were illegal. I was annoyed
45:09by that and at the same time I
45:11immediately because I'd already taken
45:13the class I said well they weren't your
45:15shells to begin with they were illegal
45:18and so
45:21as far as like
45:24I didn't think I had criminal thinking
45:27everybody does everybody does trust me
45:31if you took the class you would know
45:33everybody little things little things
45:35like
45:37calling during work is criminal
45:39thinking. You're stealing from your
45:41boss. And so it what I learned about
45:46myself is that I was able before the
45:50class I was able to justify little
45:53things because it didn't really affect
45:56anybody. The shells didn't hurt anybody.
45:58The shells help staff. I justified the
46:02shells helped staff during searches.
46:05That's how I viewed it. Now I don't have
46:08shelves. Everything's just all piled in
46:10there, which makes it harder for the
46:14staff when they search. But it's legal
46:16now. So I would say as far as my own
46:19criminal thinking, I no longer think
46:21that little things don't matter.
46:23Everything matters. Everything. Because
46:26two or three or four little things
46:27become a big thing. And pretty soon it's
46:29a pattern. It's a behavior. Then it's
46:32like it's always okay to take something
46:34out of the chow hall. It's always okay
46:36to run out the front door just to go say
46:38hi to a friend, even though you're not
46:40supposed to walk out the front door.
46:42That's all criminal thinking. And so it
46:45made me more aware that some of the
46:48things that I did that I thought were
46:49silly
46:52weren't they're not there's a reason
46:54that you're not supposed to do them.
46:56Whether you like it or not, there's a
46:58reason for it. If everybody ran out the
47:00front door just to go say hi to a
47:02friend,
47:04people get shanked, staff lose control,
47:09um there's a riot on the yard and they
47:11don't understand what happened. So
47:13there's a reason for rules and there's a
47:15reason no matter how silly you think
47:17they are. So
47:20there you go.
47:24Okay. Thank you. Um that was the only
47:26question I had. and I'll turn it back
47:27over to Chair Shu.
47:35M Downs, um let's talk about your work
47:37history. Um looks like
47:41at least from the report that we got,
47:44your current job is plant operations,
47:48maintenance, and repair.
47:50Is that still what you're doing?
47:53Yes, refurbishing bicycles. We actually
47:56work on the staff bicycles also, but our
47:59main goal is to refurbish broken
48:03bicycles to give to the children at at
48:06Christmas time.
48:09Okay. And I see recently,
48:13I think about 3 years ago, you were a
48:14yard worker. Is that correct?
48:18Yes. Uh uh groundskeeping. It was
48:20landscaping. Groundskeeping. Yeah. Plant
48:23operations. Yes.
48:26Um
48:31so looks like recently most of the work
48:34has been
48:36um you know related to to work to
48:41physical work. Have you held positions
48:44that are more clerical?
48:50Ye yes every time they get a chance they
48:53make me a cleric.
48:54Okay. Can you tell us can you tell us
48:56about your experience as a clerk?
49:00Yes, I was a clerk for the counselors.
49:04Um I was a clerk for a teacher uh which
49:08involved uh tutoring which involved
49:11teaching. Uh that's why they pulled me
49:13as a clerk in education because of my
49:15college degree. That was my first clerk
49:18position. That's when they took me off
49:19close A custody and made me close B
49:21because they needed me. Um, I'm not
49:26saying I'm special. Don't go there with
49:28it. I'm just saying they needed somebody
49:30that could not just do paperwork, but
49:33they could teach. And so they pulled me.
49:36Um, I was a clerk at the watch office
49:39for the custody captain.
49:42[Music]
49:45I think that's it. I think that's all
49:46the clerking I've done.
49:50Okay. Um, those are all my questions for
49:53you about your work history. Do the
49:55other board members have questions?
49:57Sorry, did you have something else you
49:58wanted to say?
50:00I was a clerk in plant operations. Sorry
50:02about that. I was a clerk in plant
50:04operations in between being a painter
50:07and groundskeeper. Also, uh just before
50:10I went to uh the bicycle refurbishing, I
50:14actually worked inmate day labor as a um
50:17ditch digger. I was literally a ditch
50:21digger. So, and I mean 10 foot deep, 5
50:26foot wide. I was a ditch digger. So,
50:31all right. Thank you. Uh Miss Crest, do
50:32you have any questions about employment
50:34history?
50:36No questions on this topic. Thank you,
50:39Mr. Taylor.
50:43Uh, no questions on this topic. Thank
50:44you,
50:46Miss Lowry.
50:48No questions. Thank you,
50:49Mr. Bailey.
50:52No questions on this topic for me
50:54either.
50:54Okay,
50:56Miss Downs, before we get to the
50:58psychological evaluation, I do want to
51:00take some time to talk about your
51:02disciplinary history and violation
51:05record.
51:06um while you've been in several
51:08institutions.
51:10Um I don't see any
51:14violations since 2006. So I do want to
51:17commend you for that. Um I will say
51:23in your violation history, the thing
51:26that stands out most to me is your
51:29escape attempts.
51:32So, can you tell me how many attempts
51:34you've made to escape various
51:36institutions?
51:42One.
51:44And it wasn't an attempt. I escaped. I
51:46escaped. 1987. July 11th, 1987.
51:53All right. 1987. And that was the Oregon
51:56Women's Correctional Center.
51:59Yes.
52:02Can you tell us what was your thinking
52:06at the time
52:08that
52:10um allowed you to escape from the Oregon
52:14Women's Correctional Center?
52:18Yes.
52:20I
52:22had just gotten my appeal back from the
52:24parole uh from the uh uh court of
52:26appeals and they denied they um
52:32uh they awed me affirmed without
52:35opinion. They didn't give a reason. I
52:37just lost without a reason. My attorney,
52:40Howard Collins, said, "Well, that's it.
52:42Your appeal's over. We're done." I
52:46didn't know that I had another level. I
52:48didn't I was very very inexperienced. I
52:52didn't know I could gone to the next
52:54level of appeal. And so
52:58at the very same time there was somebody
53:00that said that they found a suspect in
53:04my case and that person had talked to
53:07Lane County and
53:10Lane County said case closed. We don't
53:14we're not interested in finding him. And
53:17so since I had
53:21I had lost my appeal, I had no more
53:23hope. The only hope that I had was in
53:26finding the person who committed the
53:29crime. And
53:33so
53:36in order to understand the mind of an
53:38escapee,
53:42you really have to live inside prison.
53:46You can't
53:47you can imagine what it's like on the
53:50outside, but a person doesn't escape
53:52from prison unless they're willing to
53:54die doing it. Prison has to be so the
53:59situation, it doesn't have to be prison.
54:01The situation that they're in has to be
54:03so terrible that they would rather be
54:06dead than continue as they are because
54:10you could get shot going over the fence.
54:13It's the same reason that women stay
54:14with abusers for so long. They have to
54:17reach a point of rather being dead
54:20fleeing from him. And that's where I
54:24was. I would rather
54:27I didn't I was at the point that I
54:28didn't even care if I got shot going
54:30over the fence. That's how bad it was.
54:35And I've never felt that way. I've never
54:37felt that
54:39desperate or
54:43hurt or alone again. I just haven't.
54:53Okay. And Miss Downs, you said that's
54:55been your only escape.
55:00Yes.
55:02So, your history shows that you've
55:05attempted to escape several other times.
55:09So, I want to ask you about your 1989
55:12disciplinary action for attempt or
55:15planning to escape from the New Jersey
55:17Department of Corrections.
55:20Can you explain to me
55:23uh why you received that disciplinary
55:26action?
55:291989, a man named Robert Siver came to
55:33visit me. He wanted to marry me. I
55:36didn't want to marry him. He wanted his
55:40friend wanted me to sign a contract with
55:43Mottown Pictures for a movie. I don't
55:45want a movie made. I don't want anything
55:47to do with the media. I didn't want a
55:49book made. He wanted me to sign a
55:52contract. I wouldn't. So, he wanted to
55:54marry me so that he could sell my
55:56contract as my husband. I said, "No, I
56:00don't want a movie made. I don't want
56:01anything to do with the media." So, he
56:04went to the he called his friend. His
56:08friend, he came back and I know this cuz
56:10he said it in the visit. He said, "My
56:13friend says that I've been ordered home
56:15and it's over. If you don't marry me
56:17today, it's out of my hands." I said,
56:20"I'm not going to marry you." He walked
56:23out, went straight to
56:26investigative services. I don't remember
56:28what they called it back there. They
56:29call it ISU here. He went to
56:31investigative services, said I was
56:33planning to escape. They came, cuffed me
56:36up, took me to ADS, told me that I was
56:39planning to escape. I said I wasn't.
56:42They said he said I said make him take a
56:45polygraph because I'm not. I'm going to
56:47court. This was in May of ' 89. I was
56:50going to court. I was on the calendar to
56:52go to court in September of '89 for uh
56:56my postconviction relief hearing.
57:00Being on the outside of the fence would
57:02not have allowed me to go to court and
57:03have my name cleared. It was more
57:05important to me back then to have my
57:07name cleared. Not so much anymore. Not
57:10worried about it.
57:12But he went to ISU. I told ISU, "Do a
57:18polygraph." He did a polygraph. He
57:21failed the polygraph. He was lying. But
57:24I was already an ads and it was
57:26convenient for them. So they convicted
57:28me. They brought the prosecutor in. They
57:31took me out of my cell one day, put me
57:33in a room like this with a phone and it
57:36was the district attorney for that
57:38county. He asked me a bunch of questions
57:42about the escape. I answered his
57:45questions. I sat in the room for a
57:47minute. didn't know if they knew that I
57:50was done because there was nobody like
57:53an officer sitting with me. So, I got
57:56up, opened the door, walked into the
57:58hall, and heard the same man that I'd
58:00been on the phone with. I heard his
58:02voice, and I looked to my left. He was
58:04at the he was at the officer's cage. He
58:07had been using their phone in house to
58:10talk to me and I heard him tell them
58:13tell the warden, "This woman is not
58:16planning to escape. I have no reason to
58:19prosecute her. You've given me no reason
58:21to believe she's planning to escape. I
58:24thought to myself, great. This is over.
58:27That's why the prosecutor did not charge
58:29me with escape in New Jersey because I
58:32wasn't. He had no evidence that I was.
58:35They took me back to ADS and I did hear
58:38ads. I was found guilty of planning to
58:40escape even though Robert Siver failed
58:44the polygraph and even though the
58:46district attorney said you have no
58:48reason to believe she's escaped that
58:50she's planning to escape and neither do
58:51I.
58:53There you go. I can't tell you why
58:56that's on my record, but it's definitely
58:58been a blight. It has
59:00So So are you saying Mr. Siver planned
59:02it all by himself or did he get help
59:04from you in planning the escape?
59:08He wasn't planning to escape either. He
59:10was planning to make some money selling
59:12the the escape story. He took the escape
59:15story back and he gave it to his friend
59:17John John Stevens. And John Stevens sold
59:20the story for $10,000.
59:23Cuz the record says Mr. Siver turned
59:26over numerous items including tapes,
59:28letters, and transcripts MS had given
59:31him via the mail wanting him to purchase
59:33in preparation for an escape. Is that
59:37not true?
59:39That is not true. And I that tape
59:42recording
59:44I hope somebody still has that tape
59:46recording because I really want to do a
59:47voice analysis. That's whatever tape
59:49recording. They never gave me a tape
59:51recording. I have no idea what's on the
59:53tape recording, but it certainly isn't
59:55me on the tape recording.
59:58Okay. And let's move on and talk about
1:00:00your 91
1:00:03um disciplinary action for attempt or
1:00:06planned escape also in New Jersey.
1:00:10Uh looks like a cell search. They found
1:00:12a altered light blue jumpsuit, assorted
1:00:15buttons, three yards of black fabric,
1:00:18black pouch or purse that was fashioned
1:00:21out of black fabric using a cardboard
1:00:24type material.
1:00:26Can you explain to us um what that
1:00:30disciplinary action was about from your
1:00:32perspective?
1:00:35I was charged with possessing a light
1:00:38blue denim fabric
1:00:40and black purse,
1:00:43all of which was legal and came through
1:00:45the visiting center. Um again, you'd
1:00:49have to be in New Jersey. It's not
1:00:50anything like Oregon. Trust and believe
1:00:52New Jersey is nothing like Oregon. But
1:00:55all those things came through
1:00:58the visiting center. I received them.
1:01:01I'd had them for 2 years
1:01:04and they used that light blue denim
1:01:07material and said that I was going to
1:01:10make that I was going to make a navy
1:01:14blue polyester
1:01:17officer's uniform.
1:01:19There's no way to do that. There's it.
1:01:21It's inconceivable that light blue denim
1:01:25as written in the 115 or DR
1:01:29is going to ever turn into navy blue
1:01:31polyester.
1:01:33And it was a jumpsuit. It was a little
1:01:35bitty jumpsuit. The officers wear long
1:01:37pants that go down to their ankles.
1:01:39There wouldn't The jumpsuit was halfway
1:01:42was thigh high. It was a one piece
1:01:46jumpsuit from the shoulder to the
1:01:47thighs.
1:01:49But if you hadn't been there, if you
1:01:51hadn't seen it, you put it in my record
1:01:54and there it is forever and it looks
1:01:57legitimate.
1:01:59But it's not. It's just not.
1:02:09Okay. And then I there was another
1:02:13incident from 94 I believe this time in
1:02:17California.
1:02:19Um, they re search of your cell revealed
1:02:22mortar and cocking from the area around
1:02:25the cell window had been peeled or
1:02:26chipped away. Do you recall that
1:02:28incident?
1:02:31Oh, yes, I do. Because I was in ASEG.
1:02:35I was moved from cell to because of the
1:02:38escape and the alleged attempted
1:02:41escapes. They moved me from cell to cell
1:02:44every 3 months.
1:02:46Officer Molina took me to a cell on the
1:02:50upper tier. And
1:02:53the first thing that we do when we go in
1:02:54a cell is inspect it for repairs. What
1:02:57needs to be done? Does the sink work?
1:02:59Does the toilet work? Does the light
1:03:00work? Well, as I'm standing there and
1:03:02she's uncuffing me through the port,
1:03:04through the food court, I said, "Molina,
1:03:07there's caulking missing from this
1:03:09window." She said, "What?" And so she
1:03:12cuffed me back up, pulled me out, she
1:03:14went and looked at it and she goes, "All
1:03:15right." So she made a work order and she
1:03:18wrote it in red because it was a window.
1:03:22She put it she sent the work order in.
1:03:24Nobody ever came to fix it, but she put
1:03:26a copy of the work order in a file right
1:03:28by the officer's um by the sergeant's
1:03:32door.
1:03:34An officer came in about
1:03:37two months later and when he pulled me
1:03:39out for shower, they searched the cell
1:03:41and he saw the caulking. So he wrote me
1:03:43a DR for
1:03:47um planning for actually he didn't write
1:03:50it for planning to escape. He wrote it
1:03:51for for removing caulking from the
1:03:53window. I don't think he wrote it
1:03:54planning an escape. I think it was just
1:03:56damaging state property. I can't I
1:03:58honestly can't remember what he wrote it
1:03:59for. And I was found guilty. I appealed
1:04:02it all the way to Sacramento. Sacramento
1:04:06because and because I asked him, "Go get
1:04:08the report. It's right in that box right
1:04:10there. It's literally 6 ft away. Go get
1:04:14the report. You're going to see that
1:04:15Molina wrote that down. I didn't do it.
1:04:17I didn't damage the window. Molina saw
1:04:20that it was there. She put in a work
1:04:21order." He said, "I don't have to." And
1:04:24he didn't. That was the sergeant. I
1:04:26can't remember his name. It's on the
1:04:27report. So, I appealed it to Sacramento.
1:04:30Sacramento overturned it because there
1:04:32was evidence that the he refused to take
1:04:35into consideration. They sent it back. A
1:04:37lieutenant heard me. The lieutenant
1:04:39said, "What is this about?" I told him
1:04:42exactly what I just told you. He said,
1:04:44"Where's this report?" I said, "Right
1:04:46there in that box." He goes, "Sit here."
1:04:48He didn't have to leave my sight. He
1:04:50walked over to the It's a box like a
1:04:53file cabinet on wheels. Walked over,
1:04:56pulled it out. He goes, "This is in red.
1:04:58How did he miss this in red?" I said he
1:05:00didn't look at it. He goes, "Not
1:05:03guilty." Well, they're supposed to
1:05:05remove that from your file when you're
1:05:07found not guilty. Apparently, they
1:05:09haven't. So, there you go. That's that
1:05:12story. There's a He did write a 128. He
1:05:16included the 128. It's somewhere. It was
1:05:18one year later. It was 9 months. It took
1:05:209 months to get that far. So, if that
1:05:22was in March, it would be 9 months
1:05:26later. There's a 128 in there which is
1:05:29anformational chrono that said that that
1:05:32um 115 was removed from my file. It's in
1:05:35there somewhere. And I know that because
1:05:37the 2008 board and I had the same
1:05:40discussion and the 2008 board, Miss
1:05:43Baker leaped through and she said, "Oh
1:05:45yes, here it is." So I know it's in
1:05:47there somewhere if I don't know where,
1:05:49but Miss Baker found it. So it's there
1:05:51somewhere.
1:05:53So, Miss Downs, uh, let me ask you this.
1:05:56In the four instances that you were
1:05:59documented
1:06:01as escaping or attempting to escape,
1:06:05um, and I've heard your version of it,
1:06:07but my question for you is, do you think
1:06:11through those instances,
1:06:13do you think you exhibited
1:06:16criminal thinking?
1:06:20Oh, definitely.
1:06:22Definitely with my escape.
1:06:25Oh yeah.
1:06:26What about what about the 89 incident
1:06:29with Mr. Siver?
1:06:33Criminal thinking with Mr. Siver?
1:06:39No.
1:06:42Okay.
1:06:43And what about the 90 the other incident
1:06:46in New Jersey and the incident in
1:06:48California?
1:06:5291.
1:06:59No, because everything I possess was
1:07:01something that I was allowed to possess.
1:07:03We were allowed to uh
1:07:07change our clothing. I just I really
1:07:10wish you knew how things were in New
1:07:12Jersey.
1:07:14You could,
1:07:17if my mom wanted to bring a pot roast in
1:07:19a pan, she would bring it to the
1:07:21visiting center and they would bring it
1:07:22to me. If she wanted to bring me a
1:07:25needle and thread and material, I could
1:07:27make anything that I wanted. It was it
1:07:29was just done. That's it was allowed.
1:07:31That's what you were allowed to do. So,
1:07:33no, no criminal thinking. Um, in 1994
1:07:38when I with the C the destroyed caulking
1:07:41definitely no because I told Molina
1:07:44immediately I didn't wait around see if
1:07:46my head would fit through the window
1:07:48which by the way your head won't fit
1:07:49through that window. I don't care if you
1:07:50took all the caulking out. The window is
1:07:533 in wide. So nobody's head is going to
1:07:56fit through that. So as soon as I saw
1:07:59the caulking the handcuffs weren't even
1:08:01off me. I said, "Molina, there's cocking
1:08:03in this window that's missing a big old
1:08:05chunk of it." And she pulled me out,
1:08:08looked at it. So, no, it wasn't even
1:08:10like I waited to see, you know, if I
1:08:12could do anything. No. So, no.
1:08:15Okay. Those are all the questions I have
1:08:18for you about your disciplinary actions.
1:08:20Um, let me ask the board members if they
1:08:22have any questions for you. Miss Press.
1:08:27No questions. Thank you,
1:08:29Mr. Taylor.
1:08:34Give me the only comment I have or
1:08:36question is in 2006 it was reported that
1:08:39for a 20-day period you refused
1:08:44to report to your work assignment and
1:08:47although it wasn't written up as a DR
1:08:49per se. Can you um explain to the board
1:08:51your reasoning for not reporting?
1:08:55Yes.
1:09:01You're you're Mr. Taylor, so you're not
1:09:03the one who manages prisons. There's
1:09:05another man who manages prisons.
1:09:08That's not me.
1:09:09Okay, you need to talk to him because
1:09:12I'm going to tell you some things about
1:09:13prison that are pretty nasty. I worked
1:09:16in the PL in the the watch office and
1:09:19there were two other clerks in there
1:09:20that worked with actually one clerk and
1:09:22one porter. I was I worked for the
1:09:25captain.
1:09:27The lieutenant's clerk, the watch
1:09:28commander's clerk, wanted her girlfriend
1:09:30to work there. The only way that she
1:09:33could get her girlfriend to work there
1:09:34is if I quit. So, I asked the watch
1:09:37commander if I could quit. He said,
1:09:39"No." I said, "Your clerk wants her
1:09:42girlfriend in here." He goes, "I know
1:09:43that."
1:09:45I said, "I need to quit because she
1:09:49wants her girlfriend."
1:09:51No. So they brought up a bully
1:09:55up there every single day to sit in
1:09:57there and harass me every single day.
1:10:03All day long to sit because the the
1:10:06clerk's office isn't in the watch
1:10:08office. It's in the program office. So
1:10:10she would sneak in the back door and sit
1:10:12there all day long. And nobody ever
1:10:14bothered the clerks. Nobody ever came to
1:10:16check the clerks because we had a phone.
1:10:18If you need the clerk, you get on the
1:10:19phone and say, "I need you in my
1:10:20office." So, it was just her, me, her
1:10:24bully wasn't even that wasn't even her
1:10:26girlfriend. Her bully and the porter.
1:10:28The porter would leave because the
1:10:30porter didn't want to have anything to
1:10:31do with it all day long. This went on
1:10:35for two weeks. And I finally and I told
1:10:38the cat watch commander, I cannot be in
1:10:41this job.
1:10:43Tough.
1:10:45So, I decided it was worth the 115 just
1:10:48not to show up for work. It was either
1:10:50that or eventually the bully was
1:10:52eventually going to because the bully
1:10:54was a stud broad and by my not backing
1:10:58down I was challenging her stud license
1:11:02and this girl has some serious criminal
1:11:05thinking. I wish you knew I wish you
1:11:07knew her serious criminal thinking in
1:11:10this one. she it eventually starts to
1:11:13feel like
1:11:16this fem is making her look bad, she
1:11:20will turn to violence. She had a long
1:11:22history of violence. And so I decided I
1:11:24was either going to get beat up or have
1:11:27to beat somebody up or get or refuse to
1:11:31work. Either way, I was going to get a
1:11:34DR. So I took the higher road and didn't
1:11:38go to work. So, I didn't go to work for
1:11:40two weeks. That's how unimportant my job
1:11:43was. I didn't go to work for two weeks.
1:11:45And so, finally, the the um CO, the
1:11:50correctional officer that worked for the
1:11:52watch commander or the sergeant
1:11:55actually, he was directly under the
1:11:56sergeant came to my cell one day and
1:11:58said, "Downs, what's really going on?" I
1:12:02said, and I told explained it to him. He
1:12:03goes, "Yeah, I know. We we've been
1:12:05watching." Well, you didn't do anything
1:12:08about it. He goes, "Well, we want to see
1:12:09what you would do." I said, "Well, this
1:12:10is what I'm doing. Give me a 115." He
1:12:12goes, "I'm not going to write you a 115.
1:12:14You're being threatened, but I'm going
1:12:15to have to unassign you." And somebody
1:12:19else wrote the 115 anyway. So, there you
1:12:21go. That's That's why I didn't go to
1:12:24work. And before that, my last 115 was
1:12:271998 or DR. You guys call them DRS was
1:12:311998.
1:12:33So,
1:12:36thank you, Boru. Thank you, Miss DS.
1:12:39Miss Lowry,
1:12:40you're welcome.
1:12:41Uh, no questions on discipline.
1:12:44Uh, Mr. Bailey,
1:12:47no questions for me on this topic
1:12:49either. Thank you.
1:12:51Okay, Miss Towns. Um before we move on
1:12:54to talk about the psychological report
1:12:56and there will be a lot to talk about
1:12:58with the report, I just want to make
1:13:01sure that I take regular breaks so that
1:13:03everybody can have a chance to stretch
1:13:05their legs, get some water or use the
1:13:08restroom if they need to. So with that
1:13:10in mind, um before we move on, I will um
1:13:15take a break. Uh let's make it a
1:13:1810-minute break. So we will come back on
1:13:20the record at 10:10.
1:13:26Thank you.

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This page contains the full transcript of Diane Downs 2020 Parole Hearing Audio │ Part 1: Programming, Work History, Disciplinary Record by 𝐃𝐈𝐀𝐍𝐄 𝐃𝐎𝐖𝐍𝐒 𝐓𝐕, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 10,273 words across 1,608 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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