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Detectives Question the Motive Behind the Murder | Jeffrey Scullin Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00Disclaimer. This video is for commentary
0:02and educational purposes only. All
0:04individuals are presumed innocent until
0:07proven guilty in a court of law. Any
0:09footage used in this video is obtained
0:11through public records and falls under
0:13fair use for the purpose of reporting,
0:15analysis, and public interest. In the
0:17second part of Jeffrey's interrogation,
0:19Sergeant Cvatus joins the room and asks
0:21if anything has changed. Jeffrey
0:23describes returning to the house with
0:25Anna and his father, even pointing out a
0:27hole in a kitchen cabinet. Detectives
0:30push him to walk through the night
0:31again. How he tried keys, rang the
0:34doorbell, and eventually enter with
0:35Bruce as Kyle slowly came downstairs.
0:38Upstairs, Jeffree claims he found
0:40Melinda face down, shook her foot to
0:42check for a response, and told others
0:44not to touch anything while calling 911.
0:48But investigators challenge him on the
0:49details, questioning his movements
0:51around the garage and patio, why he
0:53never knocked despite seeing a car
0:55outside, and pointing to gaps in his
0:57timeline of texts, calls, and trips for
0:59gas. As the inconsistencies mount,
1:02detectives tell Jeffree he's under
1:04arrest for Melinda's murder. They read
1:06him his rights, cuff him, and continue
1:08the questioning. Even in custody,
1:10Jeffrey insists he's innocent, saying
1:12he'd never harm anyone. But detectives
1:15press harder, pointing to the blood, the
1:17locks, and the timeline, telling him the
1:20evidence points to him. This part of the
1:22interview ends with Jeffree still
1:24denying responsibility, while detectives
1:26make it clear they don't believe his
1:28story.
1:32>> Okay.
1:34All right.
1:36Appreciate that.
1:39>> So, if you need to use a restroom, just
1:41let me know anytime. Okay.
1:42>> Yeah.
1:43>> Okay. Let's uh let's see where we stand.
1:47Let's look at our We use an algorithm.
1:50>> I'm allowed to look at
1:50>> Oh, yeah. I want you to look. I want to
1:52show you the stuff. There's no magic.
1:54There's no uh there's no magic uh
1:58scoring. Do the scoring here. This is
2:00the scoring we use. Uh this is the
2:04algorithm. Okay. You have probability of
2:0899.9. You have a significant reaction.
2:10Let me see what are the questions you're
2:11having issues on. Okay.
2:13>> Five and seven. Did you Okay. Okay.
2:16Well, let's take a look at the charts
2:18and see. I want to see.
2:20>> What was I having reaction?
2:22>> You're having reactions to these red
2:24questions uh which are the causing the
2:27injuries and inj and injuries knowing
2:30for sure. I want to take a look at the
2:32chart and
2:36very large response here. Not so large
2:39here. Some there.
2:46>> Oh yeah. Here. Through the roof. This
2:48one. Okay. And last one here.
2:54There. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, that puts
2:58you right here. We're We're at this
3:00point. Let me put this
3:08You're at this point right here. Okay.
3:11So, we're in the yellow category and uh
3:13yellow and that means it's a cautionary
3:14zone, meaning I didn't see any issues on
3:16the psychological uh aspects, meaning
3:20this is my opinion. uh that you're not a
3:22person who is uh this is a habitual
3:26serial kind of thing that you're a kind
3:27of person who enjoys hurting somebody or
3:29doing something like something like
3:31that. Um did you cause those injuries?
3:33Yeah, absolutely you cause those
3:34injuries. Um now what I want to do is
3:37get an understanding of why it happened.
3:39That's what we need to do is what
3:43happened? What caused it? What did
3:45Melinda do uh that that that caused a
3:48response from you? what did you do? But
3:51and what we want to do is try to get an
3:53understanding first and foremost that
3:56there's there was no plan. It's not an
3:58intentional thing. This is
4:01very much an isolated situation
4:04that we want to move forward on. And we
4:06want to be able to verify for first and
4:08foremost it's not intentional. Meaning
4:11there was no grand plan. I'm going to go
4:13out and do something to something that
4:14that something happened that caused a
4:17reaction out of you. She said something,
4:19she did something. Um um you know or
4:25there's a lot of things, you know, uh
4:27let me think here.
4:29And so what I want to do is be able to
4:32move us towards this verification test
4:34first and foremost to show that it's not
4:37an intentional thing because the
4:38intentional thing kind of goes into the
4:41uh you know the the psychological issues
4:44where you know somebody plans something
4:46out
4:48somebody who who enjoys what they're
4:49doing and we don't want that. Um, what
4:53happened? What what was the what was the
4:55what was it? We call it the nexus point.
4:57What was it that caused a reaction out
4:59of you? Was it something she said,
5:01something she did? Did she belittle you?
5:04Uh, combined with all this what?
5:07>> No, sorry. Keep going.
5:10You know, uh I was thinking uh you know,
5:12with all the stress with the wedding and
5:14the situation,
5:16um obviously she did something that that
5:19caused her reaction. Um did she attack
5:22you?
5:23>> Did you get attacked?
5:24>> I didn't attack. I talked to her, but I
5:32never been good with time or anything
5:33like that, but I don't think I
5:38>> Well, let's talk about that knife that
5:40they found. I never even touched it.
5:41That I've probably touched it twice or
5:45in the past year.
5:46>> Well, that's DNA. That's,
5:50you know, I'm not going to say
5:52indisputable, but it's like one in a,
5:53you know, I don't know the numbers, but
5:55it's like one in a billion.
5:56>> No, I'm just saying I never
5:59>> What did she do?
6:02>> Oh, I didn't even I don't even know.
6:04>> Well, let me ask this question. Did you
6:07intentionally
6:08plan to hurt her? Was there a plan?
6:11>> It happened. And what I'm trying to
6:13figure out is why it happened and to
6:16make sure that it wasn't a cold
6:17calculated thing. I don't want people to
6:19draw
6:20>> never hurt anybody.
6:22>> Okay, perfect. I would never hurt
6:23anybody intentionally. So, what caused
6:27it? What did she say or do?
6:34I don't even remember doing anything.
6:40>> That knife was in the bag.
6:43>> Okay. In the bag.
6:45>> And there were guns in the bag.
6:46>> Yeah. But I never
6:50What did she do? Was the bag with you or
6:52was it in the premise? It
6:54>> was in the house downstairs.
6:56>> Okay.
6:58And downstairs is where you live,
7:00>> right?
7:00>> Yeah, that's where we stay.
7:02>> Okay. So, were you did you have did you
7:05have the knife and gun upstairs and then
7:08she said things or said something and a
7:10reaction? I mean,
7:11>> I don't carry those around. They stay
7:14they stay or downstairs,
7:16>> right?
7:17>> Or downstairs,
7:18>> right?
7:19>> I recognize the knife, but
7:21>> Right.
7:24Well, let's talk about
7:27we know what happened. Okay, let's talk
7:30about why and and try to get an
7:32understanding to because you said
7:33yourself and I'm going to write this
7:34down. I never
7:38intentionally
7:40hurt her. Okay. I didn't I don't
7:48I
7:50so so for us to move forward
7:55let's let's try to assess that
7:58intentional hurting you know I never
8:01intentionally tried to hurt her so that
8:03still doesn't mean you know we all make
8:05mistakes we all can we all have trigger
8:07points lot of stress I mean you're
8:09getting married you have a baby you're
8:11living with the in-law Pause. She can be
8:14a little hyperritical at times.
8:16>> Yes, but I would never do that. It would
8:18never
8:19>> Well, you would never intentionally do
8:21that, right?
8:23>> Right.
8:24>> Would never hurt anybody. It would never
8:26hurt anybody.
8:26>> Right. But it did. And And that's why I
8:30don't believe your intention was ever to
8:32hurt her,
8:33>> you know? But you did react. And what
8:37I'm trying to do is let's work through
8:39it together to get a better
8:40understanding cuz the evidence is the
8:43evidence. I mean the knife, the DNA,
8:46uh the timelines, even your own family,
8:49Aunt Jenny and others, the gas station
8:52thing, you know,
8:56help. Let's let's let's create a
8:58truthful timeline, the most truthful
9:01timeline that you can recall. And let's
9:03let people let's people let's let people
9:06know this. I never intentionally hurt
9:10anyone. I never intentionally. It
9:12happened.
9:13>> I never I never said I heard her. I said
9:14I never would intentionally hurt anyone.
9:16>> Okay. Well, you also said I never
9:18intentionally hurt her and I would never
9:20and I would also never hurt anybody.
9:23>> Unfortunately, the situation I you know
9:26what I would love to make it go away.
9:29I would love to make it go away, but we
9:32can't.
9:34Um, and the way we move forward is
9:39helping everybody understand what's
9:42going on. Okay? I mean, you have Anna,
9:45you love Anna, you have a daughter,
9:47okay? You want to maintain a
9:50relationship. You want to maintain a
9:52relationship for the rest of your life
9:54with your daughter. You want to maintain
9:57a a relationship with Hannah. How do we
10:00do that in this scenario, in this
10:03situation by being truthful,
10:07telling them, hey, this is this was a
10:10mistake. I never intentionally hurt
10:12anybody. It would never be in my mind. I
10:15don't know why it happened. I reacted
10:18and I'm sorry. I want to move forward
10:21and I want and I want to I want people
10:23to understand. You don't want people to
10:26draw the worst case scenario. Oh, well,
10:28he must be a psychopath. That lady got
10:30stabbed all those times or or or he must
10:34be, you know, some monster. You're not a
10:36monster. I could You know why you're not
10:37a monster? Cuz I'm going to tell you,
10:39I've been an agent for 28 years and I've
10:42seen some monsters. You're not one of
10:43those people. Okay. Uh
10:47did a mistake happen? Yeah, it did
10:49happen.
10:51Did you do that? Yeah. I I have to I
10:53have to be honest with you. Yeah, you
10:54did. And it clearly shows that. The
10:56evidence clearly shows it. But what I'm
10:58trying to do is go here and I want to I
11:01want to do verification that it was not
11:04an intentional thing. It was not a
11:06planned thing. This wasn't a a grand
11:09scheme. Uh you're not some, you know,
11:12deviant that that that gets off on
11:14something like this. I think what you
11:16know, you have all the marriage stress
11:20going on. I I'm married. I I know it's
11:22stressful. You got a brand new baby who
11:25you love dearly. You got a wife or a
11:30fiance and you're living with the
11:32in-laws and and and sometimes you know
11:37you know they everybody makes the jokes
11:39on the mother-in-law. But you know what?
11:41A lot of times it's true. You know, as
11:44we talked about earlier, you know,
11:46they're they can be a little picky. They
11:47can be you got all this stress going on.
11:49You're you're currently unemployed. you
11:51got all this stress coming on. Maybe she
11:54said something derogatory about your
11:56family or about the wedding plans or
11:59about you as a as a man, you know, uh or
12:02you as a person. And and and what I'm
12:05trying to figure out is what is the
12:07trigger blame? And then
12:09that it wasn't intentional.
12:12So the the first and foremost thing I
12:16would like us to start with is
12:19it was not intentional. It was not an
12:21intentional thing. Meaning it's not a
12:24pre-planned thing.
12:27>> Yeah.
12:28>> Okay. If I gave you a test on that
12:31>> test on what
12:32>> on did you intentionally hurt her? Would
12:34you pass that?
12:36>> Yeah. I don't I don't understand. He
12:40said he said he checked the one
12:42detective checked where I went, but I
12:44remember getting gas. I remember
12:49>> well
12:52the the uh film
12:55I don't want to get in because I'm not
12:57as privy with that aspects of it but you
13:00know I don't want to argue the the gas
13:02station but the film doesn't show you
13:04there ever okay but that's not the
13:08concern you know and Jeie says no he
13:11didn't get there till 6:00 I don't care
13:13about the time frame I don't care about
13:15any of that, okay? You know, I care
13:19about you and I care about helping me so
13:23I can let people know this is a
13:25non-intentional thing. This is a guy who
13:28made a mistake. He's got a daughter who
13:30he loves very much. He's got a fiance
13:34that he loves very much. He spoke highly
13:37of the family. He spoke highly of his
13:39own family. But something happened.
13:42Okay? something uncontrollable happened.
13:45Now, is this, you know, because I can
13:48guarantee you what some people are
13:50saying or thinking, "Oh gosh, he's got
13:52to be the monster. He's got to be Jack
13:54the Ripper. He's got to be the worst
13:55thing in the whole world." We don't want
13:57people to say that. If that's not true,
14:00and I honestly don't believe it. I don't
14:02believe you are that kind of guy. And I
14:03don't believe you ever would be that
14:04guy.
14:06Did you have a bad night that night?
14:08Yes. Did you cause those injuries? Yes.
14:10I don't know why. help me understand
14:13why. And then then what I want to do is
14:15I want to test you on that. Okay?
14:18Because that way I'm just not taking oh
14:20well, you know, hey, you're the social
14:22you're the social worker. You want to
14:23believe everybody. Well, yes and no.
14:26But, you know, but I do believe people
14:28and I seek goodness in you. Okay.
14:34Was it was it just the stress of the uh
14:37uh the combination of of of the wedding
14:40and the money and and
14:44what did what did she do? What did she
14:46do to cause this?
14:47>> I don't I didn't get any
14:51there's no nothing. She was fine. I
14:53don't
14:54>> I don't understand. No.
14:58>> What don't you understand?
15:01I don't
15:02>> because
15:05you caused those injuries, okay? You
15:08know, you caused those injuries,
15:10>> the stabbing, the shooting. I don't know
15:13why they happened, okay? And let let me
15:16tell you what fear is. I want you to
15:18listen to this. Fear. F A R. False
15:23expectations appearing real. Okay? And
15:26that's just not some psycho babble. That
15:28really is. Um, people get scared. You
15:31made a mistake. I hope you made a
15:33mistake. I pray to God it was only a
15:35mistake. I pray to God you're not one of
15:38these intentional people. Okay. Um, I
15:41don't know. It can be a mistake.
15:46I'm going to write that here. Or it may
15:49be an intentional thing.
15:53That's where the verification test is
15:57going to help us. Just like before, just
16:00like on this stuff, it clearly shows
16:02that. The evidence clearly shows that. I
16:05don't care about any of that stuff. I
16:07want to know what kind of person you
16:09are, you know? And when we make
16:12mistakes, what do we do? We try to move
16:15forward. Life isn't we're not defined by
16:19one single day in our life. were defined
16:22by the totality. Do you want a
16:24relationship with your daughter? Do you
16:26want a relationship with Anna?
16:28>> I don't understand. What I don't
16:30understand is I don't
16:32>> What's that?
16:33>> I don't understand. I don't I don't
16:35remember
16:36>> Okay.
16:37>> doing anything. I don't
16:38>> Okay. So, you Okay.
16:40>> I went
16:40>> So, I don't remember. Hang on. I don't
16:43remember hurting her. Okay. Let's Let's
16:46talk about that.
16:48>> I don't
16:49>> Okay. Have you ever experienced
16:51blackouts before?
16:55>> I don't know. I don't but I don't
16:58>> I mean is is this something caused
17:02quite a large reaction? So when you say
17:06I don't remember hurting her. Okay.
17:09Well, do you do you ever have other
17:12Remember I asked you about your mental
17:13health? Did you ever have other
17:14experiences where you just wake up and
17:16you don't know? Sometimes I I do talk to
17:18people and they go, I I just woke up and
17:20here I am naked and there was a gun and
17:22there was a knife and there was drugs
17:24and I don't know what was going on, you
17:26know. And I understand that.
17:27>> Never I never touch those knives. Those
17:30knives are just there. I've never I've
17:32never touched them.
17:33>> That one knife was used to was used to
17:36stab her. The DNA is on that.
17:38>> I think and it's your knife
17:40>> once, but I've never used it.
17:42>> Right. Well,
17:43>> something like this
17:44>> and and it was in your truck that you
17:47had control over.
17:51>> Okay. So,
17:53let's go back mistake intentionally. I
17:57don't believe that you would ever
17:59intentionally hurt anybody.
18:01You don't seem like that kind of guy.
18:03Matter of fact, I watched your lies lit
18:06up light up when you were talking about
18:07your daughter. I've watched how you
18:10smiled, how you're very proud, her
18:12intelligence, one, two, three, ABC. How
18:16how she can be devious. That's a proud
18:19father. And and I'm and I was and I'm
18:23happy to see that in you. Okay.
18:29We have you have to be we have to be
18:32strong together. You we need to know,
18:36you know, are you intentional? Is it
18:38mistake? You know, we don't want
18:41somebody to say, "Well, my gosh, we
18:44don't want to do the monster thing."
18:49Okay. Um cuz it happens, you know, and
18:54the big thing is,
18:57and only, you know, what was the cause?
19:00Was it Was it something she said?
19:02>> She didn't say anything to me. She never
19:04said anything to me. Well, something
19:07caused a reaction.
19:09>> Did you do you ever have Let me ask you
19:11a question.
19:13>> Do you ever have moments where you just
19:15just act out on somebody? Have you ever
19:18just gone crazy on somebody?
19:23>> I don't know. I don't think so.
19:27>> Okay. No. Have you ever have acts where
19:29you just physically attack somebody?
19:32Acted out. Okay. Right. So anytime and
19:35and just like regular people or normal
19:38people something causes that. Okay. And
19:42you know what it is generally there's a
19:45red line. There's a red sign a red line
19:47that all of us have and it's usually
19:50some form of disrespect. That's where
19:53anger is. The emotional background of
19:55anger is somebody is you're being
19:59deprived of something that you should
20:01rightfully have and that's what creates
20:02anger. That's why we have anger. Anger
20:04is a is a it's a it's a mechanism of who
20:07and what we are. And when you when a
20:10person pushes you to the point where
20:13they're showing you disrespect or
20:15they're showing you uh uh condemnation
20:18or uh uh they're being arrogant
20:22that can push a person that can create
20:25anger that can create a response.
20:27Now, something caused that you to have
20:30that response, and that's what I
20:32ultimately want to test on because I
20:34don't believe you're the kind of guy
20:36that would intentionally just
20:37cold-heartedly, very coldly just go hurt
20:40somebody. I don't think you are that
20:42kind of person. I think if you get
20:44pushed, if somebody pushes you hard
20:47enough and is disrespectful enough that
20:49you're going to respond. And that's
20:51that's what I believe happened because
20:53that's the impetus of what anger is and
20:55what anger causes people to do.
20:59Maybe it wasn't her. Maybe maybe
21:01something was going on, you know. Uh um
21:05maybe I don't know. Um
21:09but
21:11it's you and her at the house and Kyle
21:13at the house. Okay. Kyle's off in his
21:15room where he always always is, right?
21:20Yeah, the lines up there.
21:23>> Okay. So, it's between you and her.
21:26There's some dialogue. There's something
21:28going on that that resulted in you doing
21:32this.
21:32>> And what I'm trying to get an
21:34understanding is what can we test on to
21:37be able to show the best in you, not not
21:40the worst.
21:46I don't understand left. She came home
21:50and left.
21:54>> Ultimately, you left, but she was not in
21:58the same condition as when she came.
22:00>> Okay. That that didn't happen. You
22:03didn't go to Aunt Genie's till post
22:07Well, according to Aunt Genie, I don't
22:08and I don't know specifically, somewhere
22:10around six o'clock. Okay.
22:13something happened in that time frame
22:17and and
22:24that's what we need to understand
22:30and you're the only person with the
22:32answer. But what I what I'm what I'm
22:35begging you and helping you try to
22:38understand is don't let people think
22:40it's an intentional thing.
22:42Don't do that to your your future wife.
22:45Don't do that to your daughter. You're
22:48not that kind of person.
22:50Okay? Unfortunately, you're in this
22:52situation. Okay? You know, I'm very
22:56sorry that you're in that situation.
23:00Let's let people know the truth.
23:03What is it that caused the reaction?
23:05>> I don't know. I don't know. I don't even
23:08remember. I remember leaving and I
23:10remember
23:11>> Okay. around losing gas. But he he says
23:14there's no there's no way of me being
23:16there. I'm so confused about it all.
23:20>> Well,
23:21when you say you're confused, what does
23:23that mean? Cuz you said I don't remember
23:26hurting her. I don't remember leaving
23:27the house.
23:29>> You're saying I did.
23:41Well, you know it. This is not who you
23:46are. This is not the person you are.
23:49This is not the defining moment of who
23:51you are and what you are. Is this part
23:54of your life? Yes. Can you ever go away
23:57from it? No. It is always going to be a
24:00part of your life. The only thing that
24:02you can do is reconcile with it. Try to
24:05understand it.
24:07Let people know that you love. Let them
24:10know the truth.
24:12Let them know the truth. Let Anna know
24:15the truth. Let Aurora know the truth.
24:20Hey, your dad made a mistake.
24:23>> You know, this is not something. This is
24:26not who I am.
24:28you know on one given day October was it
24:3222nd or 23rd
24:35this this happened
24:38that is not who I am I want a
24:42relationship here I'm going to look at
24:43that data
24:48>> 23rd
24:50October 23rd
24:53in a whole lifetime
24:58is not who you are.
25:03Is it part of you? Yeah. It's one day in
25:05your life. Right now, you're going to
25:08define the rest of your life.
25:11And that's why I want to
25:15hope to put your best foot forward. And
25:18the only way we put your best foot
25:20forward is by telling the truth. Okay?
25:24And the only way that's the only way
25:26you're going to do Oh, you're a horrible
25:28Excuse me. You're a horrible liar.
25:30Meaning when we do the test, meaning
25:33it's because you're not. That's right.
25:35That's right. Because generally you're
25:36an honest person. You're a good person.
25:39Okay.
25:41>> October 23rd.
25:43I'd love to take that day away. I'd like
25:45to make that day always go away.
25:48I want to move us towards here, but
25:51we're somewhere in here. mistake. It's
25:54non-intentional issue or you know some
26:00people will say, "Hey, we got all the
26:02evidence. We got the DNA. Uh we got
26:06records showing that he wasn't where he
26:07said he was. We got family members, his
26:10own family members telling us, oh no, he
26:11never showed up till this time frame. He
26:13did this." You know, um and I'll tell
26:16you what, I bet you got scared as hell.
26:19I bet you got scared as hell.
26:22And and and and I'll tell you the truth.
26:25I'll bet you sent the I bet you sent
26:27Bruce an email saying go to uh the
26:29Kettle Brew or whatever that restaurant
26:32is. I'm saying you did, but I'm just
26:34telling you, you know what?
26:35>> You know what that shows?
26:37>> That shows a scared guy. That would show
26:39a guy that's just scared to hell. You
26:41know what? Oh my god, I made a mistake.
26:44You know, this this is my future. This
26:47is my wife's mother. She's generally a
26:49good person. I just couldn't take
26:52something that was said or something
26:54that she did and that's what I want to
26:57test on because you know what if I can
27:00test on it then it backs you otherwise
27:04you know people can draw whatever
27:07conclusions they want and we don't want
27:10that we want you to have a relationship
27:12with your daughter we want you to have a
27:15relationship with Anna
27:18when you and Anna like
27:21you kiss and make up,
27:23>> right? And and and I kind of, you know,
27:26I'm kind of metaphorically saying it's
27:28the same thing. Obviously, this isn't
27:30quite the same thing, but the mechanisms
27:33towards reconciliation for who you are
27:35as a person. Don't ever stop.
27:39You make mistakes. Hey, I made a
27:42mistake. I want to move forward. You
27:45know, I don't like I don't like it. This
27:48is not who I am. I'm scared of the
27:50future. I want us to have a future
27:52together. I'm deathly afraid of that.
27:55That's fine. But you can't run from it.
27:57You can't hide from it.
27:58>> Trying to run
27:59>> because where are you right now? You're
28:02sitting in an orange jumpsuit. Okay.
28:05Why? Because all the evidence is there.
28:09There's guys up there that say, "Why you
28:11would you even spend your time talking
28:12to that guy? Who gives a damn? They got
28:15all the evidence in the world. Did you
28:17see what happened? You know, and you're
28:19like, wait a minute, that's not the
28:21global person. Maybe that's a social
28:23worker in me. Maybe that's a person who
28:25cares. Maybe that's a person who sees
28:28the goodness in you. I do and other
28:30people do. Anna does.
28:35What I'd like us to do at the end of the
28:37night, write a letter to Anna. Tell her
28:40you're sorry. Explain it. You don't have
28:43to go into graphic detail, but tell her
28:46this is not who you are.
28:48>> I don't remember doing anything. I
28:50remember leaving and getting gas.
28:53I don't understand.
28:55>> Right. I don't remember. I understand.
28:57>> I don't understand.
28:58>> Well, let's talk about blackouts then. I
29:01don't remember uh hurting her. I don't
29:04remember leaving the house. So,
29:07>> I I left the house, though. I left the
29:09house and she walked in like any other
29:10day. You did leave the house. You didn't
29:14leave the house with her
29:16how she walked in without any injuries.
29:19That did not happen. When you left that
29:22house, she was injured.
29:27And ultimately, she perished from that.
29:31And I'm not saying that's what I want to
29:33show. Look,
29:35I did something. It was wrong. I made a
29:38mistake. This is what happened. Help
29:40people understand. Don't let people draw
29:44the worst case scenario with you. That's
29:47not who you are. That's not the kind of
29:50son that your father raised.
29:53That's not who your mother raised.
29:56That's not who your daughter has as a
29:58father.
30:01I don't understand.
30:05I
30:06left. I
30:07>> You did leave. You did leave that house.
30:09You're You're absolutely correct. You
30:12did not leave with her in the same way
30:14that she left when she came in.
30:16>> When I left, she was yelling something
30:18at Kyle, though. I don't That's what I
30:21don't understand. They They said they
30:23never did any of my stuff.
30:25I don't understand.
30:27>> No, you did not leave that house. And
30:29I'm not being confrontational with you,
30:31but I have to be honest. You did not
30:32leave that house with her non-injury.
30:35The knife was in your car. The knife is
30:38her DNA.
30:40>> It's your knife. You told the detectives
30:43it's your knife. You had access to
30:45knives. You had access to guns. I'm not
30:47saying you had What I'm trying to do is
30:51this is my sole goal is to knock out an
30:54intentional. I intentionally went to
30:57hurt that woman. I intentionally went to
30:59kill that woman. I intentionally because
31:00I have so much hatred. That's what
31:02people want to think. You know why?
31:05Because it's easy. You know what they
31:06can do? Slam the door. That guy's a
31:10freaking monster. Oh, he's Ariel Castro.
31:13Oh, I would never do that. I would never
31:16think that way. Oh my god. What kind
31:18What is wrong with that guy? That's easy
31:21for people to do that. You know why? Cuz
31:24any given day, any one of us can make
31:27them the same mistake.
31:29Any single one of us can do the same
31:31could have the same day. We all say we
31:33wouldn't. We all say we wouldn't. So,
31:36let me tell you something. If you grew
31:38up in a certain part of the neighborhood
31:40with certain types of parents and
31:42certain economic conditions, would you
31:44be a PhD or maybe would you be doing
31:47something else? Well, I know people, oh,
31:49I would never do that. None of us can
31:51ever say that. By the grace of God, go I
31:55meaning any one of us at any time can
31:59have a bad day, can make a mistake, can
32:01do something that we regret.
32:04But how do we move forward? How do we We
32:08don't want people to be able to do the
32:10easy thing.
32:12Hell with him. Goodbye. Good riddens.
32:16You know that guy was horrible. No, it's
32:18not. You got a daughter. You have that
32:21daughter you have to take care of. You
32:23have a daughter that you're going to
32:24have to talk to. Okay.
32:27You You love her. I know you love her. I
32:30saw your face.
32:33I know you love her.
32:35>> Is it What are you gonna How are you
32:38going to explain it to your daughter?
32:40I'll tell you how you're going to
32:41explain it to your daughter. Dad made a
32:43mistake. I'm sorry. I regret it for the
32:46rest of my life. It's not who I am. I
32:50want a relationship. I want you to
32:52understand me. This is not who I am.
32:56This is one day in my life.
32:59Okay.
33:00>> How do we help me help H help me
33:04understand so we can communicate that to
33:06her? That's something you're going to
33:08ultimately communicate to her. I don't
33:10know. I don't I don't I'm so confused.
33:16>> What are you confused about?
33:17>> I don't I don't remember doing that.
33:21>> Okay.
33:21>> I don't even remember putting that out.
33:23>> I don't remember. Okay. I don't remember
33:25doing that. It was I don't even It
33:28wasn't in the truck. Not that much.
33:30>> Okay.
33:31>> Well, you said earlier was it was
33:32downstairs. The guns and the knives were
33:34downstairs, right? That's what you said
33:36earlier.
33:37>> Yes.
33:38>> Okay.
33:41So, let's do this.
33:44Sometimes
33:46it's it's it's okay to close your eyes,
33:49sit back, and go through that awful
33:53experience. And I I don't mean to make
33:56you go through it, but you have to go
33:58through it. And go through it in your
34:00mind. Close your eyes and what do you
34:03smell? What do you hear? What do you
34:06feel? What what does everything feel
34:09like? Uh, you know, what are the sounds
34:12that you're hearing? And then slowly,
34:15let's work ourselves back to to
34:20something was said that process that
34:22caused you either to go downstairs and
34:24get that or you had it with you. Maybe
34:26you were cleaning it or you had it with
34:28you at that moment and think about it
34:32from all your emotions from your eyes.
34:34What did you see from your what did you
34:36smell? You know, what did you hear? What
34:39did you touch with your hands, with your
34:41feet, with your body?
34:44What did you what was inside going on in
34:47your heart when that when that situation
34:50that caused that anger? What was that?
34:53Think about that and just just close
34:56your eyes and just think about it and
34:58and then let's work our ways back
35:00through it. Okay. So, what was a
35:04situation that happened that caused the
35:07reaction?
35:10>> What did she say?
35:12When we talked, she was she was just
35:15fine. She was laughing about the baby.
35:16We never really talked about anything.
35:21>> Well, something
35:21>> she left to her doctor
35:23>> and then she came back.
35:25>> Yeah.
35:26>> Okay. And then something happened.
35:30Something caused your reaction. What was
35:33that something that caused that
35:35reaction? Let's start there.
35:39>> Everything we talked about was like
35:41normal stuff. It was just a
35:44>> go to the anger. What caused the anger?
35:47What caused the rage?
35:48>> I don't remember.
35:50I don't know.
35:51>> Okay. I don't remember.
35:53>> I don't know.
35:56Then I remember that knife being
35:59downstairs in the bag,
36:02but I don't Okay.
36:05>> I took it out of the truck and put it
36:07right back.
36:08>> Okay.
36:10and and then ultimately you ended up
36:12putting it back in the truck
36:16cuz it didn't walk there by itself. And
36:18I'm not being, you know, condescending
36:19or anything. And uh, you know, unless
36:22you told somebody to put it there,
36:24unless you gave it to somebody and I I
36:26don't believe you're the kind of guy
36:27that would do that.
36:30>> No one was with me.
36:32>> Let's Let's do this. Go back to when you
36:34put the knife in the truck and then
36:36let's try to work our way back from that
36:39angle. Truck.
36:42Truck.
36:47>> Silverado.
36:52Truck.
37:05What were you thinking? Oh my. Were you
37:07what were you thinking when you were
37:08putting that knife back into the truck?
37:10Oh my god, what have I done?
37:13>> I don't remember back in the truck. I
37:15remember taking it out.
37:16>> Okay.
37:17>> The night before.
37:18>> Okay.
37:19>> Along with like two others.
37:22>> Okay.
37:22>> And putting them all in the bag.
37:26>> So that would be on a Sunday then.
37:29>> Yes.
37:29>> You put put it in with the guns. Is that
37:32the bag you're talking about?
37:35I think so. Yeah. In there.
37:38>> Okay. The bag with the guns.
37:43>> And then you told me earlier that that
37:45same bag was downstairs.
37:47>> Was downstairs
37:49>> in in your living quarters?
37:52>> Yeah.
37:53>> Okay.
37:56I just set it down there.
37:59>> Didn't touch it.
38:00>> Yeah.
38:01>> And then
38:08went to sleep.
38:13Got up,
38:17watched the baby, played with the baby.
38:21>> Yeah.
38:21>> Watching Army played with her
38:25>> her little piano thing.
38:26>> I understand.
38:36Then Malcolm. So we talked about the
38:38baby.
38:38>> Sure. And she goes to her doctor's
38:40appointment.
38:42>> Yes.
38:42>> Okay.
38:43>> All been verified off the bus,
38:45>> right?
38:47>> Kyle ran upstairs like normal.
38:51>> And
38:54she came home,
38:55>> right?
38:56>> And I was getting ready to leave. Let's
38:59stop there because that's when it all
39:01happens. Okay, let's let's stop that.
39:05She comes home and maybe she's in a bad
39:08mood. I don't know what happened with
39:10her at the doctor. I don't know if they
39:12stuck a needle in her. I don't know, you
39:14know, but something has maybe she maybe
39:17she's taking on a bad day, you know,
39:19maybe she's grumping at you. Maybe she's
39:21being, as you said earlier to me, that
39:24she would have, you know, snippy
39:26comments.
39:27And you know what? Those think great
39:30after a while. And with all the other
39:32stresses going on, the marriage, the
39:35baby, the unemployment, the stress, the
39:39pressure, you know, and
39:44something is said.
39:49the $6,500 for the hall. Did you ever
39:52get it from your mom?
39:54>> No, I was going to cancel my IRA to get
39:58most of it back. Like 5,600
40:01something
40:02>> to pay back to pay the hall cuz you
40:04didn't have the money.
40:06>> Yes. And then the rest would
40:08>> a little bit from my mom and the rest
40:09for my savings.
40:10>> Right. So it was my understanding you
40:13were supposed to get the 6,500 from your
40:16mom. Could she make some comments about
40:18your mom or your family or your your
40:21family's financial situation that caused
40:24the anger?
40:28>> Is it possible that she made some
40:29disparaging remarks that caused some
40:31frustration and anger on your part?
40:39>> I remember leaving. You left. I I'll
40:43guarantee you did leave cuz your aunt
40:45Genie says you left or says you came to
40:48the house.
40:50You weren't there at little after 3 or
40:53I'm sorry uh the gas station thing and
40:56the and the gas and stuff.
40:58>> I remember that.
41:00>> You know what Bruce told me? Well, he
41:01didn't tell me. Uh you know what he
41:03said?
41:04>> He said when I left Applebees, he was
41:07filling up the car with the gas. You
41:09know what he told me? He got the gas
41:10from my dad's garage. His dad's garage.
41:16>> I never went to my dad's.
41:17>> Right. I know. I don't know where you
41:19went.
41:21When we ultimately find out tonight,
41:23then we're going to test on it. But the
41:26first and foremost thing that I want to
41:28be testing on is the intention. That's
41:32the first and foremost. That's the big
41:34question that the prosecutor wants to
41:36know. Is this guy somebody that is going
41:38to be doing this again? Is this an
41:40isolated situation? Is this a guy that
41:43made a mistake? There's a lot of reasons
41:45people make mistakes. And what I'm
41:47trying to do is I want to show them who
41:51you are as a person,
41:53but only you can share that. Only us
41:56working together. I want to be able to
41:59show
42:01the truth.
42:08What are you most scared of?
42:11>> Never see my daughter again.
42:13>> Exactly. Okay, let's talk about that
42:15then. Let's talk about that. Um, that's
42:18a very fair thing to be scared of. Okay.
42:22How do you how do you take control of
42:24the situation? Can you change the past?
42:29Can you change the past?
42:30>> No.
42:31>> No. Exactly. I can't change the past.
42:33There's things in my life that I've done
42:35that I've regret and I'll regret to the
42:37last day of my life. But you know what?
42:40What do people do when they make
42:41decisions they regret? They don't want
42:44to go back there. Okay? They say, "What?
42:48I'm sorry. I did make a mistake." Okay?
42:53You can't make a person forgive you, but
42:56you can give them everything, the every
42:58opportunity. You can never quit on them.
43:02Okay. And that's what you need to do
43:05with your daughter. You need to give her
43:07the truth. You need never quit on her.
43:11You will be able to see her. You will be
43:13involved with her in her life. But if
43:16you alienate Anna,
43:18I you know, I can't control Anna. You
43:21owe Anna the same thing. You've got to
43:24tell her the truth. You've got to level
43:26with her. You got to tell her what what
43:29went on and and why. You know,
43:33you know, if if it's something so
43:35callous that you that I hated Melinda
43:38and I planned out for weeks to kill her
43:40and then I killed her. Well, yeah, I
43:43don't think Anna's going to be forgiven
43:45of that. I don't think a lot of people
43:46would be,
43:48but
43:50as I believe this is a mistake. This is
43:53an isolated situation. An argument insur
43:57ensured
43:59something happened that caused a
44:00reaction. Something inside of you that
44:03said, "I've had enough of this. I'm
44:05tired of being disrespected." And you
44:07reacted. It wasn't the best day. It
44:10wasn't the best thing to do,
44:12but tell people. Tell people. Let them
44:15know the truth that you're a human
44:17being.
44:19How How can we tell Anna? How do we tell
44:22Laura?
44:25You know how we do it? We start with
44:26you. You You tell them. You tell them
44:29the truth. And we're going to we're
44:31going to write a letter to them. Well,
44:33I'm going to have you write a letter to
44:34your daughter and your wife and telling
44:36them the truth.
44:39>> I don't remember though. I don't know
44:41what
44:44I know that stuff is downstairs,
44:46>> right? You don't have any psychological
44:48issues. You've never had any blackouts
44:51in your life.
44:54>> What do you think Anna's gonna say and
44:56react in that?
44:57>> I don't know. Probably call me,
45:00>> right?
45:01>> Right.
45:01>> But I don't.
45:02>> Yeah, you do. You do. Remember, you're
45:06you're the only person who does. Do you
45:08know why you know? You know detail. And
45:11let me tell you exactly why you know so
45:13much detail. Because you're not a kind
45:15of guy that does this over and over and
45:17over. I've met people who robbed
45:19hundreds of banks and guess what? They
45:22don't remember all the details because
45:24they can't because they robbed hundreds
45:26and hundreds of banks. You know what?
45:27They have pathological issues. That's
45:31just who they are. But I know somebody
45:34who
45:35made a mistake. They'll remember it
45:38every day and they'll tell me it haunts
45:40me every day of my life. But I'm not
45:42going to let it control me. I'm moving
45:44forward.
45:46I was honest about it. I want people to
45:49know, hey, you can be in this situation,
45:52too. I'm moving forward
45:55because you know why? It's not who they
45:57are. And it's burned in their memory.
45:59It's burned in who they are. They'll
46:02remember every detail for the rest of
46:04their life because it's the only time
46:05it's going to ever happen in their life.
46:09And and you know all the details. You
46:13have them intimately in the thing.
46:15You're afraid. I get it. I understand.
46:18False ex expectations appearing real.
46:21The false expectation is I'm never going
46:23to see Aurora again. I'm never going to
46:24see Anna again. Is that a possibility? I
46:27can't say that it's not. I I I would lie
46:30to you. And that if I said, "Oh, no.
46:32That's everything's going to be peachy."
46:34No. You know, you got a big roadblock.
46:36Okay. How do you get around that
46:38roadblock? Over it, through it, under
46:40it. There's only one way. By being
46:43truthful. And you got to be truthful to
46:47Anna and you have to be truthful to your
46:50daughter. That's the kind of man you
46:52are. That's the kind of father you are
46:55and that's the kind of husband you are.
46:56That's and that's the kind of son that
46:58you were raised to be.
47:00>> You know,
47:01you weren't your your son your father
47:04raised you to be strong. Okay? Didn't
47:08raise you to be a liar. didn't raise you
47:12to run away from things, you know.
47:17You're not that kind of person,
47:19are you?
47:22>> Okay.
47:23Tell me what happened.
47:26>> You do know. Let me think, sir.
47:29>> Okay. Okay.
47:38Hang
47:42on.
48:17This is what I I want us to do tonight.
48:20I want you to write a letter to your
48:23father to Anna to daughter
48:26with Aurora.
48:28A U R
48:31How do you How do you spell her? O R
48:34>> O A.
48:36>> Yeah.
48:36>> Okay.
48:37>> I'm sorry. O R A
48:39>> O R A.
48:41>> Oh yeah.
48:42>> To Aurora
48:56because you are a combination of all
48:59that.
49:01your father, your mother, you're a
49:04husband, fiance, husband. You're taking
49:08responsibility for your child. You love
49:10your child. You didn't run away. You
49:13didn't say, "Take care of it yourself.
49:15You pay for it. Go have an abortion."
49:18You didn't do any of that. There's a lot
49:20of people that would.
49:22That tells a lot about you. Okay?
49:30See,
49:32when you have fear of false expectations
49:35appearing real, you make that a big
49:37hurdle. Well, I'm never going to have
49:38Aurora. I'm never going to have Anna. My
49:41parents are going to be disappointed.
49:44Yeah, they're going to be frustrated.
49:45They're going to be angry. They're going
49:47to be mad.
49:49But that doesn't mean they can't
49:51forgive. And they will.
49:54But you have to start with yourself. You
49:56have to forgive yourself. How you do
49:58that is by what?
50:01Telling somebody you're sorry. Hey, I
50:03made a mistake. That's who we are as
50:05human beings. That's what separates us
50:08from the animals.
50:11And and I'm not talking about animal
50:13animals. I'm talking people animals
50:16because there are some of those people
50:18like that.
50:20You're not one of those people. You're
50:23not an animal person.
50:26You're a person who loves, a person who
50:29cares, a person who gets joy
50:34of being with his daughter, a person who
50:37wants to be and the foremost thing that
50:39you articulated to me was concern for
50:42your daughter. Then how do you show your
50:46daughter
50:48by standing up and being the father, the
50:51husband, and the man that you are? Hey,
50:53here's what happened. Here's what
50:56happened.
50:59>> Okay.
51:00>> Okay. Well, let's talk about it.
51:03>> I don't understand.
51:05Okay.
51:06>> I remember
51:07>> I remember walking out and I walked back
51:09in or something. I think I don't know. I
51:11don't know what happened. I was so
51:13confused about it.
51:14>> Okay. So, you walked walked out. Maybe
51:18there were statements made and you
51:20walked out just like you normally did,
51:23but something was said that caused such
51:26a reaction or so much anger or
51:27frustration or humiliation.
51:31>> Maybe she threatened to do the same
51:34thing.
51:35>> I'm not going to let you.
51:36>> I remember walking outside and leave and
51:39getting ready to leave.
51:42>> I don't understand.
51:46Did she threaten to end the marriage or
51:49stop the marriage? I don't
51:51>> and stop you from having access to
51:53Aurora and Hannah.
51:56>> I don't know.
51:57>> Because as a mining, when somebody
51:59threatens the people we most care, you
52:02can respond to that. But I remember
52:05walking out leaving.
52:07>> Okay.
52:09>> Just walking out. She was yelling out to
52:12Kyle.
52:14getting in the car and that's
52:18that's I remember I remember remember
52:20getting in the car.
52:22>> So Melinda's yelling at Kyle. You're
52:24walking out.
52:27>> I remember.
52:29>> Well,
52:32she you did not leave that house with
52:34her. What was she yelling to Kyle?
52:37>> To get his shoes on or something like
52:39that,
52:40>> right? Why? He gets undressed. He stands
52:44up upstairs and gets undressed and
52:46stuff.
52:47>> Okay.
52:50>> Could she have been yelling to Kyle for
52:51help?
52:53>> For help
52:53>> or assistance?
52:56>> What do you mean?
52:58>> Because of the situation, the fight that
53:00you guys got into.
53:03>> No, she said shoes.
53:05>> Okay. Okay.
53:06>> It was outside.
53:08>> Okay.
53:09She you did not leave that house with
53:12her
53:14not physically changed.
53:17>> I'm not sure.
53:18>> She came into the house with no stab
53:20wounds or not being wounded with a
53:23gunshot. When you left the house, she
53:27had stab wounds and she had a gunshots
53:30or gunshot or gunshots. I don't know how
53:32many.
53:39I'm not sure what happened. I'm not
53:41sure.
53:41>> Okay. I'm not sure.
53:42>> So,
53:44>> well, let's talk about it. Let's think
53:46about it.
53:48>> I remember walking out.
53:50>> Okay. You walked out after the
53:52encounter.
53:53>> I remember.
53:56>> I don't know.
53:59>> You do know. So,
54:01>> you do know. You absolutely know. And
54:04you know why you know? Because you're
54:05never going to forget that day for the
54:07rest of your life. Do you know why?
54:09Because you're not a pathological
54:11killer. You're not a person who plans
54:15out, premeditates out, thinks about
54:18nothing but hurting people and could
54:20care less. You know what that is? That's
54:22a psychopath. Psychopaths have no
54:24feelings for people. You're not that.
54:28You're not a monster. You're not that.
54:31Are you a guy that made a mistake?
54:34Yeah,
54:37I made a mistake.
54:39It happens.
54:41Does that define who you are as a
54:43person? No, it doesn't.
54:51How do you define who you are? By being
54:54truthful. Letting Hannah, letting your
54:58beloved daughter know the truth.
55:05Not making a spectacle of yourself, not
55:07making putting any more pressure on them
55:12and helping them.
55:16And you know, by helping them, you know
55:18who else you help?
55:20You help you.
55:23Because you know what? They're still
55:25going to love you.
55:28They're not going to be happy with you,
55:30but they're still going to love you.
55:38Can I have a minute to myself?
55:40>> Sure.
55:41>> Okay. I'm going to walk out for a few
55:42minutes. Okay.
55:47Do you want something more to eat or
55:49drink?
55:50>> No, thank you.
55:51>> Okay. I'm going to give you about 5
55:52minutes. Okay. Dude, am I allowed to
55:55have like an Advil? Is there any or is
55:57I'm not allowed to?
55:58>> Let me see what is allowed in this
56:01facility for prescription medic for
56:04non-prescription medication.
56:05>> Okay, I'll be right back.
56:06>> Just hurts really bad.
56:07>> Okay, think about it. Talk about it. Get
56:10your head straight and we'll we'll come
56:11back and work on those letters.
56:15Let me see if I can see one of the
56:16detectives or somebody.
56:31I I'll ask you guys here. Can we get
56:34some motin or
56:40Okay, I got some. Is this okay?
56:43They said it was okay.
56:55You okay? My head's coming.
56:57>> Yeah.
56:59Well, I'm glad you got that food in you
57:01then.
57:05Okay.
57:09What What are we What are we going to
57:10say? What do you What do you What do we
57:13want to say to Aurora? What do we want
57:15to say to Anna? Let's tell them. Let's
57:18let's let's draft let's do let's do a
57:20letter to them and let them know what
57:22happened and why
57:28I'm not a great typhist. So you you
57:30dictate then I I'll have you double
57:32correct it.
57:34>> Yeah, I'm probably just as good as you.
57:36Okay. Okay.
57:44What do you do? Dear
57:47uh dear Anna
57:50Aurora.
57:52>> Okay. Dear Aurora. Okay. Okay. I want to
57:55make sure I spell her name. A U R O R A.
58:01>> Is that it?
58:02>> Yeah.
58:03>> Okay.
58:05Um
58:07I'm so sorry. Uh, you know, I love you
58:10very much. Um,
58:13I remember being mad. I just don't
58:15remember doing anything else.
58:16>> Okay. Well, I remember being mad. Let's
58:19talk about that. Well, let's talk about
58:23Let's talk about the mad and that'll
58:25help us. That'll bring us back further
58:27or that'll bring us back closer. What
58:30were you mad about? What was the
58:31discussion about? Was she trying to stop
58:34the wedding? Trying to remove you?
58:36Trying to take you from the house?
58:39And that would have been a problem if
58:41she had all the way there. It would have
58:42just left.
58:44>> I know that. But
58:47>> I don't know what what it was.
58:49>> What What is it that caused you to be
58:50mad at that time?
58:53>> It was fine.
58:57I'm sorry. I'm very confused.
58:59>> No, that's okay. Cuz cuz you said, "Hey,
59:02I remember I was mad." Okay. And I said,
59:03"Okay, let's talk about the mad. What
59:06what was the reason you were mad?
59:09>> I don't know.
59:11I don't know. Okay.
59:24Okay. Uh, in reference to Aurora, dear
59:28Aurora,
59:30I love you very much. Do you want to
59:33tell her how you feel?
59:34>> Yeah. Okay.
59:37I love you
59:39so much. Is that fair?
59:42>> Yes.
59:42>> Okay.
59:46>> Do you want to tell her that you love
59:48her mother, too?
59:49>> Yes.
59:50>> Okay. I love your mother
59:56so much.
1:00:06Do you want to apologize? I'm so sorry.
1:00:09>> You don't want to apologize?
1:00:11>> Oh, I do.
1:00:12>> Okay. I think I did do something bad.
1:00:15>> I just can't move.
1:00:16>> Okay. Well, how about we phrase it that
1:00:18way and we and we'll talk about it. I am
1:00:22so sorry for doing
1:00:27something bad.
1:00:33and let's let's let's talk about that or
1:00:36let's think about that and and
1:00:40proverate on it. We So here's what we
1:00:43have so far.
1:00:45I dear Aurora, I love you so much. Is
1:00:48that fair?
1:00:48>> Yeah.
1:00:49>> Okay. I love your mother so much.
1:00:53>> Is that fair?
1:00:54>> Okay. I'm so sorry for doing something
1:00:56bad.
1:00:57>> I'm sorry the lights hurt my eyes.
1:00:59>> Okay. I don't know if we can dim.
1:01:01>> I don't think we can. I don't think you
1:01:02care.
1:01:03>> Um, I'm so sorry for doing something
1:01:05bad. Is that fair?
1:01:08>> Yeah.
1:01:09>> Okay. Okay.
1:01:11>> Well, let's talk about the bad thing.
1:01:14>> I remember you being mad, but I don't
1:01:16know.
1:01:16>> Okay, then. Let me put that down. I was
1:01:19mad.
1:01:22>> I don't know.
1:01:22>> I was mad.
1:01:25>> That stuff was downstairs.
1:01:28>> Let me ask a question. Are you a mad
1:01:30person? Are you a person that's always
1:01:32mad?
1:01:33>> No.
1:01:33>> Okay. Would you like me to say to her,
1:01:36"I was mad, but this is not who I am."
1:01:42>> Is that fair? Is that a fair
1:01:43representation? Yes.
1:01:45>> Okay. I was mad, but this is
1:01:50who
1:01:52I am.
1:01:57I want you to know
1:02:00me. You know, I'm thinking of explaining
1:02:02it to her. I want you to know
1:02:06this is not who I am and I love you very
1:02:08much. Is it would that be fair?
1:02:11>> Yes.
1:02:12>> Okay.
1:02:13>> Okay.
1:02:14>> I want you to know
1:02:16that you are my whole world.
1:02:18>> Okay.
1:02:24Oh god.
1:02:27Okay.
1:02:32And I Okay. So, I love you so much. I
1:02:35love your mother so much. I'm so sorry
1:02:38for doing something bad. I was mad, but
1:02:40this is not who I am. I want you
1:02:45to know
1:02:48you are
1:02:52my whole world.
1:02:55my whole world.
1:02:57>> Is that fair?
1:02:58>> Yeah.
1:02:58>> Okay. Um I'm telling
1:03:04you, we had an argument. There was an
1:03:08argument.
1:03:08>> We were arguing. I don't
1:03:10>> Okay.
1:03:11>> I don't understand. It's
1:03:13>> okay. It's fine. We'll get it worked
1:03:15out.
1:03:19Thought
1:03:24that knife was in the bag downstairs. I
1:03:27don't
1:03:30know what's going on. I really don't.
1:03:32I'm so confused.
1:03:37Look,
1:03:38how do we how do we want to tell Aurora?
1:03:40I mean, I I'm not going to, you know,
1:03:43we'll we'll talk about the details
1:03:45ourselves, but I, you know, I don't
1:03:47think you have to tell Aurora all the
1:03:49details. Um, let's just stick with
1:03:52Aurora's letter. I love you so much. I
1:03:54love your mother so much. I'm so sorry
1:03:56for doing something bad. I was mad, but
1:03:58this is not who I am. I want you to know
1:04:02you are my whole life.
1:04:05How about How about her grandma,
1:04:07Melinda? I love Melinda. I made a
1:04:09mistake.
1:04:11You know, I I you know, people make
1:04:14mistake.
1:04:15>> I don't remember going back inside. I
1:04:17don't
1:04:17>> What's that?
1:04:19>> I remember walking outside, but I don't
1:04:21remember going back inside. I'm so
1:04:23>> I don't understand it. I don't
1:04:24understand.
1:04:27But I never put that knife in the trunk.
1:04:29I don't get it. I don't understand.
1:04:34Well,
1:04:37just just from a
1:04:40>> an evidence standpoint, a time frame
1:04:42standpoint,
1:04:46>> you did put the knife in there. You did
1:04:48cause the injuries.
1:04:50>> You you you were at the places. Now, I
1:04:53understand that sometimes we may want to
1:04:55block them out because they're painful,
1:04:57you know, but I think it's important to
1:05:00know that you didn't have
1:05:03hatred for Melinda or Bruce, their
1:05:06grandma, cuz she's got to love her
1:05:07grandma. She didn't love your mother,
1:05:10>> right? She loves your mother. She Did
1:05:13she love Melinda, too?
1:05:15>> Yeah.
1:05:15>> Okay. Okay. And I I think it's important
1:05:18that you you tell her, "Hey,
1:05:21I loved Melinda as you did. It was it
1:05:24was just a mistake." Is that a fair
1:05:27representation?
1:05:30>> Yeah.
1:05:31>> Okay. Okay. Write that down. I love
1:05:37I loved
1:05:40Melinda
1:05:42just like you.
1:05:46I made a mistake.
1:05:53Okay.
1:06:01I love you so much. I love your mother
1:06:04so much. I'm so sorry for doing
1:06:06something bad. I was mad. But this is
1:06:09not who I am. I want you to know you are
1:06:12my whole world. I love Melinda just like
1:06:15you.
1:06:18I made a mistake because that that's a
1:06:20fair representation so far, right?
1:06:44When you say I don't remember, a lot of
1:06:47times what that is is is being scared.
1:06:51>> I don't understand.
1:06:55I remember going to the cast. I remember
1:06:57doing that, but I go there. If I go
1:07:00there, go there. I don't understand.
1:07:02>> Well, put it this way. You might have
1:07:05actually gone there, but you didn't go
1:07:07in the time frame you said you did when
1:07:09with the police
1:07:13just like when you said you went to your
1:07:15aunt Jenny's, you weren't in that time
1:07:17frame that you were there.
1:07:20And when you said that Melinda came home
1:07:22around a little after 3, that's not
1:07:26true. They already verified that through
1:07:28the doctor's office. She ain't get out
1:07:30of there till it's like 3:40.
1:07:32>> 3:40.
1:07:34So, I don't know the exact time, but it
1:07:36could be 3:45, could be 3:38, but she
1:07:40get they verified all that through the
1:07:42doctor's office.
1:07:44>> So, so
1:07:46you know, and uh getting to the uh the
1:07:51apple leaf, the knife, the DNA.
1:07:56Okay, let's not I'm not worried about
1:07:59that stuff. There's nothing you can do
1:08:01to change any of that.
1:08:04I I wish I wish there is something that
1:08:06we could do to change that. There's
1:08:08nothing that you can do to change any of
1:08:10that. Those are historical facts. They
1:08:13will never change. The only thing that
1:08:16you can change is how your daughter's
1:08:19going to feel about you, how your wife
1:08:23is going to feel about you, how your
1:08:25father is going to feel about you, how
1:08:27your mother's going to feel about you,
1:08:29how Bruce and his family are going to
1:08:31feel about you.
1:08:35That's what you can change. And we're
1:08:38going to do that tonight. We're going to
1:08:40change that tonight. We're going to let
1:08:42them know the truth.
1:08:44>> Okay.
1:08:45>> Okay. Okay. Let's talk about
1:08:49what the mad thing was.
1:08:51>> I don't know. I don't I remember what
1:08:54was outside.
1:09:11What?
1:09:11>> I said I'm sorry I bumped your foot
1:09:13there.
1:09:17>> I don't remember what's going on.
1:09:20>> Right. I don't remember what was going
1:09:21on.
1:09:22>> Okay. I don't
1:09:24>> You know why? at times because
1:09:27psychologically we want to block things
1:09:29out
1:09:31>> cuz it's not who you are. It's not the
1:09:34kind of person you are.
1:09:36>> You're never going to be that kind of
1:09:37person.
1:09:38>> I thought I'd left.
1:09:49I don't know.
1:09:51You do know. Do you know why you know?
1:09:54because
1:09:56this is a very
1:09:58isolated thing in your life that's never
1:10:01happened before. And I will guarantee
1:10:03you, you will never ever forget it.
1:10:08>> It's like your first car. You know, it's
1:10:11a bad analogy, but people remember the
1:10:14first times of everything and anything.
1:10:17Your first kiss,
1:10:20maybe your first encounter with a woman,
1:10:22you want to get
1:10:24first
1:10:26interaction, you know, with a new car.
1:10:28Do you know why I remember that? Because
1:10:30it's the first time. You absolutely do
1:10:33remember everything.
1:10:38>> The biggest hurdle you have to overcome
1:10:41is the fear, the false expectations
1:10:44appearing real. If I tell everybody the
1:10:47complete truth, then oh my gosh, you
1:10:50know, I'm never going to see this. I'm
1:10:52not. That's not true. That's not true.
1:10:54You know, everybody will hate me.
1:10:56Everybody will think I'm a monster. No,
1:10:58that's not true. By not telling the
1:11:01truth, you will make people hate you.
1:11:06You will make people think maybe that
1:11:08guy is a monster. He is a monster. Who
1:11:10could do something like that? He He has
1:11:12to be a monster. It's not. You're a
1:11:15human being.
1:11:16>> I don't understand is I never There are
1:11:17never any bullets in there. I
1:11:20understand.
1:11:21>> Well, she was shot.
1:11:22Sh.
1:11:24>> I didn't have any. I don't think I did.
1:11:27>> Well, look, I'm sorry. What?
1:11:32>> She left. When she came in, she didn't
1:11:34have any bullet wounds in her. When she
1:11:37came in, she didn't have any stab wounds
1:11:38in her. When you left, she had the stab
1:11:41wounds. She had the the shots, the
1:11:43wounds. She had the stab and the
1:11:45shooting wounds. Okay. Maybe you didn't
1:11:47even recognize You know what? Maybe you
1:11:50didn't even recognize that there was
1:11:52bullets in the gun. Maybe it was an
1:11:53accidental shooting. You know, people
1:11:55get mad. They point things. They shoot.
1:11:57They act like, you know, metaphorically
1:11:59they're speaking, "Oh, sometimes I'd
1:12:00like to shoot you." And maybe it was an
1:12:02accident. And then it was like, "Oh my
1:12:04gosh, what have I done?" You know, and
1:12:06then, you know, frustration kicks in. Is
1:12:10that what happened? Was it, you know,
1:12:12you got mad and you pointed with Once
1:12:14again, it comes back to the
1:12:15non-intentional. I didn't even know
1:12:17there were bullets in the gun when I
1:12:18shot it. And the next thing I know,
1:12:20she's falling down. And now I'm
1:12:22panicking, but I don't. And maybe maybe
1:12:25that's what the stabs are. Maybe they
1:12:27were a cover up for that. I don't know.
1:12:29That's scared. That's being afraid. It's
1:12:31okay to be afraid.
1:12:33It shows you're a human being. It shows
1:12:36the difference. You know, difference
1:12:37between right and wrong. And you
1:12:39realize, oh my gosh, this is a mistake.
1:12:41This is not who I am.
1:12:43There's nothing wrong with that. That's
1:12:46who we are. And that's what we need to
1:12:49show Aurora that you're a human being
1:12:52who loves her very much
1:12:58cuz you want to say to her, "Look,
1:13:00honey, dad made a mistake
1:13:04and he wanted to correct it
1:13:05immediately."
1:13:07And I'll even show you is on that day
1:13:09when I went down and talked with them, I
1:13:11told the truth. And that's what you need
1:13:13to always do.
1:13:16And that's what I'm going to teach you
1:13:17in your life to do. I'm not going to
1:13:20give you idle words to live by. I'm
1:13:23going to be the man that I am and show
1:13:25you because that's just like you're a
1:13:27man with your hands. You You like seeing
1:13:31with your hands. You like doing with
1:13:33your hands. You're going to be doing the
1:13:35same thing with your actions.
1:13:38You're not going to be one of these
1:13:39talking mouthpieces that show, "Don't do
1:13:42as I do, just say it. Just do as I say.
1:13:45You're not You're not that kind of guy,
1:13:47right?
1:13:49>> Good.
1:13:54I'm so
1:13:56>> Did you When you pointed that gun at
1:13:58her,
1:14:00did you know there were bullets in it?
1:14:02>> I don't even remember having a gun, sir.
1:14:06>> No, she was shot.
1:14:09>> I can't dispute that. And And I'm not
1:14:11trying to be flippant on it. But we have
1:14:14to talk honest. Okay? You have to talk
1:14:17honest. If you didn't know there were
1:14:19bullets in there, let us know that. Hey,
1:14:23I was mad. I metaphorically I picked up
1:14:25the gun. You know, I've just shown her
1:14:27that I was frustrated and I didn't real
1:14:30and it went off. Okay? You know why?
1:14:32Because we get mad and we don't always
1:14:35control it. It's called a sympathetic
1:14:36response.
1:14:39It's part of your nervous system.
1:14:44Did you know there were bullets in the
1:14:45gun?
1:14:48I don't know. I don't Okay.
1:14:56>> Did it surprise you when you pulled the
1:14:58trigger and it just went off? Did it
1:15:00shock the hell out of you?
1:15:01>> I don't remember that. I remember coming
1:15:03back inside. I remember walking outside.
1:15:07I just walking into the house. was mad
1:15:09at me.
1:15:10>> Cuz you were mad,
1:15:10>> right? I don't know.
1:15:12>> Because I don't
1:15:14>> I walked in.
1:15:16>> I don't remember what happened.
1:15:20>> I'm scared.
1:15:22>> I don't
1:15:28Oh my god. So, I walked in and h in and
1:15:32outside the house. I was scared. I was
1:15:35mad.
1:15:41The only way we move forward is by
1:15:43addressing the issue. In the psychology
1:15:46side of the house, they have a
1:15:47statement.
1:15:49You have to feel to heal.
1:15:53>> You know what that means?
1:15:54>> No.
1:15:54>> That means you have to go back and tell
1:15:57the truth. And you know what? You know
1:15:59what the truth will help will will cause
1:16:01you to do? To feel the pain. You have to
1:16:05feel the healing. I'm so confused.
1:16:10>> You're mad. Something's going in. You're
1:16:13walking in and out of the house. Every
1:16:15guy has done it. Gets frustrated, gets
1:16:18angry, and something gets said. And
1:16:22maybe you didn't know there was bullets
1:16:23in the gun.
1:16:25>> I don't know that. Only you really know
1:16:26that. Or maybe you did and you didn't
1:16:28think, "Hey, I'm just going to shoot
1:16:29next to her or I'm going to shoot off to
1:16:31the side. You know, I'm just going to
1:16:33scare her. I'm just sick and tired of
1:16:34being demeaned."
1:16:36I would never point the gun. I just
1:16:39don't know. I don't know what they did.
1:16:41I don't
1:16:43really.
1:16:44>> Okay. Well, as you said, I walked in and
1:16:48out of the house numerous times.
1:16:52I was mad and scared
1:16:56was
1:16:58it's because what happened was which
1:17:00caused you to be scared and it's cuz you
1:17:02were mad is what caused the action to
1:17:05happen.
1:17:07That's the driving thing.
1:17:10Being mad causes an action.
1:17:14Those gunshots, those stab wounds, and
1:17:16it creates what? A realization of what?
1:17:19Oh my gosh. What have I done? This is
1:17:22not who I am. This is not how I'm
1:17:25raising my daughter. This is not the
1:17:27husband I want to be. This is not the
1:17:29son-in-law I want to be. But I can't
1:17:32change the past. There's nothing I can
1:17:35do to change that. So you So the choices
1:17:39are we talk through it, we try to
1:17:42understand or we try to run away. But
1:17:44running away isn't going anywhere. It
1:17:47will absolutely not serve you. It will
1:17:50not serve Aurora. It will not serve
1:17:53Anna.
1:17:55It's not going to serve your
1:17:56relationship.
1:17:58There's only one thing that you can do
1:18:00that will serve them. That's by being
1:18:03truthful.
1:18:04Being truthful and right and finishing
1:18:07this letter
1:18:11with I love you, Dad,
1:18:14because that's what you are.
1:18:24All I remember is walking into the
1:18:26house. I don't know what happened next,
1:18:28>> right?
1:18:29>> Well, we know you were mad and at times
1:18:33you were scared. Okay. Usually scared is
1:18:36a realization of what? Something
1:18:39happened. I pushed something. I did
1:18:41something and it makes us frightened. So
1:18:44some action caused you to be frightened.
1:18:49And what is the action that resulted?
1:18:52She was stabbed. She was shot. Okay,
1:18:55that's the action that caused you to be
1:18:57scared. Do you know why you were scared?
1:19:00Cuz you're not a psychopath. You're not
1:19:02a monster. You're not somebody who
1:19:04doesn't care about anybody.
1:19:06You're somebody who does just the
1:19:08opposite. And it would scare everybody
1:19:10because you do. You have a wonderful uh
1:19:13uh fiance. You have an outstanding
1:19:16daughter.
1:19:18You have parents who love you. I'm not
1:19:20saying that it's always the easiest
1:19:21life. You have family-in-law
1:19:25who's taken you in the last two years,
1:19:28you know, but you know what? You stood
1:19:30up. You impregnated her daughter, their
1:19:33daughter. You love her. You care about
1:19:35her. Don't let that die.
1:19:39Don't Don't Don't let that. And there's
1:19:42only one way that you can do that.
1:19:45That's by telling them the truth. You
1:19:48owe them the truth.
1:19:50Okay? Think of the pain they're in right
1:19:53now because they don't know. They're
1:19:55wondering what happened. What happened?
1:19:58What Anna, did I marry a monster? What's
1:20:00going on? Tell her the truth. She
1:20:03deserves the truth. If you really love
1:20:06her, like you say, if she is the light
1:20:09of your life,
1:20:12don't you think she has the right to
1:20:13know?
1:20:15>> I don't know what happened.
1:20:16>> You do know what happened. You
1:20:18absolutely know what happened.
1:20:21>> You were mad. Mad caused this action.
1:20:25Then you were scared. As you said, I
1:20:28walked out of the house a number of
1:20:30times. I was mad. I was scared.
1:20:35Well, you get mad for a reason. Mad
1:20:38causes a reaction. The reaction was a
1:20:42stabbing, a shooting, these injuries.
1:20:45Scared is, "Oh my gosh, you know, I
1:20:49can't believe I did this. This is not
1:20:51who I am. It's not who you are.
1:21:00Here,
1:21:05[Music]
1:21:07let me save your letter.
1:21:18How do we want to tell Aurora? How do
1:21:21you want to tell her? You're her father.
1:21:25Don't understand.
1:21:28Do you want to tell her? I don't
1:21:30understand what I did. I'm sorry.
1:21:33>> No, I don't understand why I can't.
1:21:39I don't understand.
1:21:42>> You can remember. You know,
1:21:46I remember walking.
1:21:57>> You understand? I I I understand what
1:22:00you're saying, but you do. You don't
1:22:04because you know why I know that?
1:22:06Because you're not a person that would
1:22:08habitually do something like this.
1:22:10>> What does habitually mean? I'm sorry.
1:22:11>> It's a continuous process. They always
1:22:13do it. They're pathological. They uh
1:22:16it's a serial matter. You know, I'm a
1:22:19mean, horrible person. I like to hurt
1:22:21people. And this is a continuation. I I
1:22:24I injure animals. I I'm emotionally
1:22:26abusive as a husband, as a father. Uh
1:22:29you know, I I use prostitutes. I use
1:22:32drugs. I take money from the family to
1:22:35do what? For my own pleasure. I don't
1:22:37care. That's a habitual offender. That's
1:22:39an habitual emotional abuser. You're not
1:22:42that.
1:22:49>> I understand. Oh god.
1:23:11How do we tell?
1:23:13How do we How do you want me to tell
1:23:16her?
1:23:20I love you so much. I love your mother
1:23:22so much. I'm so sorry for doing
1:23:24something bad. I was mad. But this is
1:23:27not who I am. I want you to know you are
1:23:30my whole world. I love I loved Melinda
1:23:34just like I just like you. I made a
1:23:37mistake.
1:23:41This mistake is not who I am. Do you
1:23:44want me to tell her that?
1:24:01Do you want to ask her for forgiveness?
1:24:04>> I don't remember hurting her.
1:24:06>> No. Aurora. Aurora.
1:24:09>> Do you want to ask Aurora's forgiveness?
1:24:11Cuz she's going to get frustrated and
1:24:12angry when she at a certain age. Why dad
1:24:15do that?
1:24:19And you know what she's going to have?
1:24:21She's going to have this letter.
1:24:24Look, my dad told me he made a mistake.
1:24:29He asked me for my forgiveness.
1:24:32And you know what? You're going to be
1:24:35always in communication, if not with her
1:24:37at some point. I don't know.
1:24:40>> Do you want me to write down? I ask you
1:24:43for your forgiveness.
1:24:45I know you may not understand at this
1:24:46point,
1:24:48but you will as you grow.
1:24:52Is that fair?
1:24:55Yeah. Okay. Write that down.
1:24:59I ask you for your forgiveness.
1:25:07I know you
1:25:11don't
1:25:12understand
1:25:15understand
1:25:18>> right now.
1:25:22But as you grow,
1:25:28so will my love.
1:25:32Okay. Tell me, tell me if this is
1:25:34adequate for your feelings. It says
1:25:37here, "This this mistake is not who I
1:25:40am. I ask you for your forgiveness. I
1:25:43know you don't understand right now, but
1:25:46as you
1:25:48as you grow,
1:25:53so does my love."
1:25:56>> What's that?
1:25:57>> Is that fair?
1:25:59>> Yeah.
1:25:59>> Okay.
1:26:03I don't remember what happened. I don't
1:26:06remember what happened after that.
1:26:07>> Oh,
1:26:12>> you're at the house. You're mad. You
1:26:16said you were mad. Okay. And then you're
1:26:19in and out of the house and then you and
1:26:22then you're scared.
1:26:24Okay.
1:26:26So, that's when that happened.
1:26:30That's when the fight or uh the
1:26:33situation happened with Melinda, you
1:26:35know, that's when she got shot or
1:26:38stabbed and everything else was after
1:26:41being mad. What I want to do is even go
1:26:44before the mad. What is what was the
1:26:47cause
1:26:49in your understanding of being mad? What
1:26:52did she do? Was she trying to cancel the
1:26:54marriage? Was she trying to tell you you
1:26:58were gonna not be a good father or a
1:27:00good husband? Was she making some
1:27:02derogatory comments about you or your
1:27:05family? Something happened.
1:27:09>> Cuz I don't want people to say, "Oh,
1:27:12he's a cold-blooded killer." I don't
1:27:14believe that at all.
1:27:16>> That's not you, is it?
1:27:19>> Okay.
1:27:26I was getting ready.
1:27:30I was super pissed off. I was throwing
1:27:32stuff.
1:27:33>> Okay.
1:27:34>> I thought I was pissed off.
1:27:36>> Okay.
1:27:37>> I thought I was I was throwing things.
1:27:42>> I could have swore it was there. I don't
1:27:46understand it.
1:27:47>> What's happened?
1:27:48>> I was pissed off. I was throwing things.
1:27:51No, I was throwing things in the bag.
1:27:52The baby bag. I was trying to make the
1:27:54baby bags.
1:27:56>> Okay.
1:27:57>> But I don't the baby bag.
1:28:00>> I thought
1:28:04I was pissed. I was throwing things in a
1:28:06baby bag.
1:28:08It And you know what? You're adequately
1:28:12explaining your anger. You know, I was
1:28:15pissed off. I was throwing things in. I
1:28:17know. I I can see that in my head right
1:28:19now. putting things in. God darn it. I'm
1:28:21getting the freak out of here. You know,
1:28:23you wanted to leave, but something was
1:28:26said
1:28:29that caused a reaction, you know, uh,
1:28:32and maybe you went and put the put the
1:28:34baby in the car. Maybe you did. You put
1:28:37your stuff in the car and then something
1:28:39was said and you came back in and in in
1:28:42a momentary point of insanity or a
1:28:46momentary loss of control.
1:28:50you know,
1:28:52with no intention of hurting or killing,
1:28:54but just to shut her up or stop the pain
1:28:58that she's causing.
1:29:06>> You clearly explained that you were mad
1:29:11and and this is very, you know, this I
1:29:14was pissed off. That lets me know
1:29:16exactly what you feel. I know exactly
1:29:19which as you are as a as a husband, as a
1:29:22father. You know, I was throwing things
1:29:25in the bag. Let me tell you something.
1:29:28There's a few times I've been really
1:29:29angry with my wife and I'm leaving the
1:29:32house.
1:29:33>> You know what she said to me a couple of
1:29:34times?
1:29:35>> Mhm.
1:29:35>> Oh, sure. That's a really grown-up
1:29:37response. What does that do? That stops
1:29:40me in my track. And you know what that
1:29:42does worse? It makes me more mad. And
1:29:46you know what I responded sometimes
1:29:47with?
1:29:48>> So, so you think that's going to
1:29:50freaking make me not want to leave you,
1:29:53not want to get out of the house because
1:29:56you just now want to try to control my
1:29:58emotional state? Sometimes women do
1:30:01that.
1:30:05And
1:30:06if Melinda was like that, let us know.
1:30:11There's nothing wrong with saying what
1:30:14she did. It doesn't make you any less of
1:30:17a man, any less of a father, any less of
1:30:20a husband by letting her daughter or her
1:30:23granddaughter know, hey, look, you know,
1:30:27she did this. That doesn't justify my
1:30:30response. That's why I'm writing this
1:30:32letter to let you know how sorry I am,
1:30:34but this is the real facts of the
1:30:36situation.
1:30:39We had a blowout. We had a knockdown.
1:30:41And I overreacted. And I'm so sorry for
1:30:44that.
1:31:12I don't know.
1:31:15Well, let's talk about the things we do
1:31:17know for sure. I'm at the house. I'm
1:31:21mad. I'm pissed. I'm trying to go in and
1:31:24out. I'm throwing things in the diaper
1:31:27bag. And then I'm scared.
1:31:32I don't think
1:31:35What's that?
1:31:40I don't know. I don't think I would do
1:31:42that. But it's
1:31:47right.
1:31:48>> You wouldn't normally do that, but in
1:31:51this situation because of this, things
1:31:55just don't happen out of the blue.
1:31:57Meaning meaning um you don't just you
1:32:02just don't just wake up and everything's
1:32:04all peachy keen and said I'm gonna go
1:32:05stab somebody. I'm gonna go shoot
1:32:07somebody. You don't just do that.
1:32:09There's a reason why some things
1:32:10happened. I'm not saying your response
1:32:13was the best response in the world. I'm
1:32:15not saying that. I'm saying just like
1:32:18you said
1:32:19I was pissed off. I was throwing things
1:32:23in the baby bag.
1:32:25That shows me your emotional state. And
1:32:28you know what happens when we get really
1:32:29angry and really frustrated? Sometimes
1:32:31we do stupid things. And that's what I
1:32:34want to be able to show is, hey, this
1:32:36was a stupid thing. It wasn't an
1:32:39intentional action. It wasn't a
1:32:41pre-planned meditated thing.
1:32:44I don't want people to think that. They
1:32:48want to think that.
1:32:50You know, some people actually
1:32:52articulate him, hey, maybe he concocted
1:32:56all these burglaries the year before
1:32:58because he's been thinking about this
1:32:59for a year and a half,
1:33:01>> right? I remember someone being there. I
1:33:04don't understand.
1:33:05>> That's okay. The whole point, the whole
1:33:08point is we don't want people to control
1:33:12the situation. We don't want to make it
1:33:15easy for people to judge you, to condemn
1:33:18you.
1:33:19We want to show the real you. We want to
1:33:22show the real picture. And the real
1:33:24picture is there was an argument. There
1:33:28was something that was said to you that
1:33:30made you pissed. That made you throw
1:33:32things into that baby bag that made you
1:33:35come and go out of the house.
1:33:37Things that kept she kept saying and
1:33:39kept doing.
1:33:41And you made a bad choice. It wasn't the
1:33:44best choice. We have to be honest about
1:33:47that. you know, you wouldn't be sitting
1:33:48here otherwise. Okay? So, but what we
1:33:52don't want is we don't want other people
1:33:55to control
1:33:58what your daughter thinks of you,
1:34:01what your fiance thinks of you, what
1:34:04your mom and dad think of you. We don't
1:34:06want that.
1:34:08And you know who can control that? You.
1:34:12You're the only one. And how do you do
1:34:14that?
1:34:16One word.
1:34:18>> Being what? Starts with a T.
1:34:21>> No.
1:34:23>> By being truthful. Exactly.
1:34:26I don't understand this. I remember so
1:34:28vividly going to the gas station. Going
1:34:31to that
1:34:32>> I don't Let's not talk. I don't care
1:34:34about the gas station. What we need to
1:34:37talk about is what happened in that
1:34:39house.
1:34:41That's just ancillary stuff.
1:34:44That's just other stuff. We don't need
1:34:47to talk about DNA on the knife. You can
1:34:50talk about DNA all you want. That still
1:34:52doesn't explain what happened in the
1:34:54house. That doesn't help people
1:34:56understand to be able to differentiate
1:34:58between
1:35:00cold, calculated, purposeful thing or
1:35:02something that got out of hand.
1:35:05So gas station, DNA, time records,
1:35:09that's jury. They can play with that all
1:35:11they want.
1:35:13What they don't know is why it happened.
1:35:17And and
1:35:19this is the opportunity that we have
1:35:21together to talk about why it's going to
1:35:23happen,
1:35:26why it did happen.
1:35:29Because this is this is one of the only
1:35:31opportunities that you'll have to talk
1:35:34to somebody about it.
1:35:39God. And that's why it's important for
1:35:43love of your daughter. You love your
1:35:44daughter, right?
1:35:45>> Yes, I do.
1:35:46>> Okay. You love your wife.
1:35:48>> Okay.
1:35:49>> By letting them know now
1:35:52what happened and why.
1:35:55You don't have to get into graphic
1:35:56details.
1:35:58>> I don't
1:36:00understand.
1:36:04>> You were mad. You were pissed. Something
1:36:07Melinda did, right?
1:36:12I think so. Yes.
1:36:13>> Okay. Okay.
1:36:15So,
1:36:18okay. I'm going to write down Melinda
1:36:20caused me to be mad
1:36:25and be pissed.
1:36:28But how how do you want me to say that
1:36:30to Aurora? Uh, this was a mistake.
1:36:33That's not who I am. I ask your
1:36:34forgiveness.
1:36:36I know you don't understand right now,
1:36:38but as you grow, as you grow, you will.
1:36:42>> Is that fair?
1:36:44>> Yes.
1:36:45>> Okay.
1:36:48Um,
1:36:54I'm I'm not blaming I'm not blaming
1:36:57Melinda,
1:36:58but she caused me to be so angry
1:37:02or so mad and pissed and that's what
1:37:05caused this. Is that a fair?
1:37:08>> No.
1:37:10>> Okay. Well, you you told me earlier
1:37:13caused caused me to be mad and pissed.
1:37:24How about this? Um, I want you to know
1:37:27the truth. I got angry. I I got I got
1:37:31upset by what Molind did. That doesn't
1:37:35justify my actions.
1:37:37It lets her know the truth though,
1:37:39right?
1:37:42Is that fair?
1:37:45>> What's that?
1:37:50>> Did you get You got angry because what
1:37:52she did, right? That's what you said to
1:37:55me.
1:37:55>> Yeah.
1:37:56>> Is that fair to tell Aurora that?
1:37:59>> Yeah. Okay. Okay.
1:38:03I got upset
1:38:07by what
1:38:09Melinda.
1:38:12>> What would you rather have me say?
1:38:14Melinda said or Melinda did?
1:38:16>> I don't know what happened. I don't know
1:38:18what you know.
1:38:20>> Well, she did something that caused you,
1:38:22as you said, to be become pissed off, to
1:38:25be angry, mad, and pissed.
1:38:29And we need to let Aurora know that.
1:38:33If that's the truth.
1:38:35>> It is, but I thought it was God. But I'm
1:38:40so confused.
1:38:41>> Okay. I got upset by what Melinda said
1:38:45or did.
1:38:50>> Which is more representative that you
1:38:51would want to tell Aurora?
1:38:55>> I don't know. I don't know what was
1:38:57said. I'm so confused.
1:39:00>> Okay. So it was said I don't know what
1:39:03was said. I don't remember what was
1:39:04said.
1:39:06Okay. So it was the words that caused
1:39:10the anger, not she didn't do she didn't
1:39:12attack you, did she? Or maybe she did.
1:39:15That's an action. That's what I'm trying
1:39:17to differentiate. Did she do something
1:39:19or is it just the words? Words are very
1:39:21painful. Words are way more cutting.
1:39:25Broken bone. You know the old saying,
1:39:26sticks and stones break my bones but
1:39:28words will never hurt me. That's a bunch
1:39:30of garbage because I've broken bones in
1:39:33my body and guess what? They've all
1:39:34healed back. But I can remember back all
1:39:37the way to fourth and fifth and sixth
1:39:38grade and being chastised or laughed at
1:39:41or ridiculed.
1:39:43That's an emotional pain that never goes
1:39:45away.
1:39:47Sometimes I actually chuckle to myself
1:39:49thinking, I can't believe you freaking
1:39:51still remember that. Grow the hell up.
1:39:55But it's it's who we are because
1:39:57emotional pain is very painful.
1:40:00>> I can't remember
1:40:05trying to trying to
1:40:06>> That's fine. That's fine.
1:40:11>> So, sure. Okay. So, how how do you want
1:40:15to say to me uh to Aurora? I got upset
1:40:19by Melinda's words. Is that fair?
1:40:23I don't know if it was words though. I
1:40:25can't.
1:40:26>> Okay.
1:40:27>> Well, look, I'll put down words.
1:40:30>> I don't know what's wrong.
1:40:30>> Hang on. Hang on. Words and then or
1:40:34actions and I'll underline it to say we
1:40:36need to talk. We need to ultimately make
1:40:38a a call. Or it could be it could
1:40:39actually be both.
1:40:43But we'll we'll when we proofread it and
1:40:45get it better before we sign it, we'll
1:40:47uh we'll get a better understanding. I
1:40:49got upset by
1:40:52Melinda's words
1:40:55by
1:40:59>> okay by Melinda's
1:41:03uh words or actions and then I'll
1:41:06underline it so we can uh decide what we
1:41:08need to do which best represents the
1:41:11truth.
1:41:13God
1:41:16Here's
1:41:30what here's what we got so far.
1:41:33I love you so much. I love your mother
1:41:36so much. I'm so sorry for doing
1:41:38something bad. I was mad, but this is
1:41:42not who I am. I want you to know you are
1:41:45my whole world. I love Melinda just like
1:41:48you. I made a mistake. This mistake is
1:41:51not who I am. I ask you for your
1:41:54forgiveness. I know you don't understand
1:41:57right now, but as you grow, you will. I
1:42:00got upset by Melinda's words or I just I
1:42:03got to underline that because I'm not
1:42:05sure.
1:42:08>> I don't understand why. I know.
1:42:11>> Well, it's not easy. Okay. It's not who
1:42:15you are and you're still honestly you're
1:42:19afraid of that. I get it. I don't want I
1:42:22wouldn't want somebody to think, "Oh my
1:42:23gosh, I don't want people to think I'm a
1:42:25monster. I don't want my daughter to
1:42:27think I'm a monster."
1:42:31I'll guarant the way you stop your
1:42:33daughter from thinking you're a monster
1:42:35or letting anybody pollute her mind is
1:42:38by telling her the truth because she'll
1:42:41always know. She'll always have this cuz
1:42:45there's always going to be an [ __ ]
1:42:46out there or a jerk or somebody who's
1:42:49going to make fun of her or make fun of
1:42:51your family or make or make some snide
1:42:53remark because that's what kids do.
1:42:57You can stop that by telling her the
1:43:00truth. Now, by not telling her the
1:43:03truth, you're subjecting her to that
1:43:06doubt
1:43:08that other people want to put in her
1:43:10mind, that want to contaminate her mind
1:43:12with
1:43:15that want to put that emotional pain on
1:43:18her. You have the ability to stop that
1:43:23by doing one thing, telling the truth.
1:43:32me up. I am telling the truth. I just
1:43:34came from
1:43:36I told her.
1:43:39>> You know why that's not true?
1:43:43>> But and and I'm not I'm not being a jerk
1:43:44to you. Do you know why that's not true?
1:43:46>> No.
1:43:48>> Because your psychophysological response
1:43:50doesn't show that at all.
1:43:53>> I don't understand.
1:43:58Look at this.
1:44:02>> Look at this. Number five. Did you cause
1:44:04any of those any of Melinda's injuries?
1:44:07Look at that huge response.
1:44:10That's because you remember. That's the
1:44:12only reason you had those kind of
1:44:13responses. Hang on. Things go off
1:44:20again. Look at this response. It's
1:44:23humongous.
1:44:25That's because you respond.
1:44:27That's because you remember. Because
1:44:30your body's saying when that question
1:44:32was, "Did you cause any of Melinda's
1:44:35injuries?" Your body's going, "Excuse my
1:44:37language. Oh, now I've got to go back
1:44:40and think about that horrible day, that
1:44:43horrible situation."
1:44:47And it and in the in the polygraph
1:44:49world, what bothers a person, it stays
1:44:52with a person. Look at this. You got a
1:44:55huge response.
1:44:56>> It's not because you don't remember. I
1:44:59>> You absolutely do remember cuz it was a
1:45:02horrific day. It was the worst day in
1:45:05your life. You know why it's the worst
1:45:08day in your life? Because it's not who
1:45:10you are.
1:45:20What's that?
1:45:21>> I left the house. But I don't
1:45:25know.
1:45:35>> You know,
1:45:37you know.
1:45:47Sometimes when people make mistakes,
1:45:51they want to try to minimize it.
1:45:57They want to, you know, that's a normal
1:46:01part of who we are.
1:46:05You know, I want to cover it up. I wish
1:46:07it would go away. Part of that comes
1:46:10from a person wishing it would go away.
1:46:12Another part of it comes from a
1:46:14diabolical person who would say I'm
1:46:17trying to cover this up so I can do this
1:46:19again.
1:46:21So sometimes
1:46:23you know
1:46:25but only the only truthful people the
1:46:28only way people truly know is be being
1:46:30truthful. Other otherwise you leave
1:46:33yourself sitting out with well then he
1:46:36did this to cover this up then he did
1:46:38this to cover this up.
1:46:40And then he did this and and a matter of
1:46:42fact, I bet you he called the husband
1:46:44and set the husband up to go over there
1:46:46because he was trying to figure out what
1:46:48it was going to go on or how we could
1:46:49get rid of something. You know, that
1:46:51would be a diabolical person. Yeah. That
1:46:55doesn't mean or you know what that could
1:46:57be? A person who's in panic mode. A
1:47:00person who's never done this in his life
1:47:02before
1:47:03is just freaking out. Oh my god, what
1:47:06happened here? This is not who I am.
1:47:09This is not me. I have a daughter. I'm
1:47:11supposed to get married. My life is
1:47:13changing dramatically.
1:47:15You know, and inside your head is going
1:47:18freaking crazy. Just like your your
1:47:21physiology on the charts goes crazy.
1:47:27Which person
1:47:28>> should stay quiet and don't let me
1:47:30control here. Never heard someone like
1:47:32that purpose.
1:47:34>> Exactly.
1:47:37Let's tell Aurora that
1:47:41Aurora
1:47:44having trouble remembering things.
1:47:48>> We're getting there.
1:47:49>> I would never
1:47:52purposely
1:47:55hurt Melinda
1:47:59like like that.
1:48:02Is that fair?
1:48:06Okay. And that's why it was a mistake.
1:48:11It was not planned out.
1:48:14Tell her that. Tell her the truth.
1:48:18I got mad. I overreacted.
1:48:22I did. As you said, I'm sorry for doing
1:48:24something bad. I got mad.
1:48:32I didn't mean for her to die. I didn't
1:48:35mean for her to get hurt.
1:48:37Is that true?
1:48:40What?
1:48:41>> You You would never mean for Melinda to
1:48:44die or to get hurt, right?
1:48:46>> No.
1:48:46>> Okay. Well, here, Aurora.
1:48:49I never I would never purposely hurt
1:48:54I would never purposely hurt Melinda
1:48:56like that.
1:48:59>> I never intended her to die.
1:49:03Is that fair? Okay. I never
1:49:08intended
1:49:10her to die.
1:49:32Well,
1:49:33I I don't know if you want to put this
1:49:35part in there. Ultimately, we got to
1:49:36talk about this part and and we can't,
1:49:39you know, between you and I, we can. I
1:49:41don't know if you want to put this word
1:49:42Aurora because it might be a little too
1:49:44graphic is, you know, about the
1:49:46stabbings or the shootings, you know, we
1:49:49have to address that so we can move
1:49:51forward. Hey, look, you know, obviously
1:49:54you were angry. I get it. Uh, it caused
1:49:57you never had any intention for her to
1:50:00show. It's not a premeditated thing.
1:50:02It's not a planned out thing. You know,
1:50:05I got mad
1:50:07and I shot and stabbed her or I shot her
1:50:10or I stabbed her or I pulled out a gun.
1:50:12I didn't think there was any bullets in
1:50:13it and then I and and then it did and it
1:50:16went off. You know, I didn't realize it
1:50:18went off and it did. Sometimes we don't
1:50:20feel, you know, the trigger. You know, I
1:50:22don't know what kind of trigger pull
1:50:24those weapons have or the weapon had. It
1:50:27could have a, you know, you ever you
1:50:28ever fire a weapon with a two or three
1:50:30pound trigger pull or less.
1:50:33It's freaking hair trigger,
1:50:34>> you know. And if people don't have a lot
1:50:36of good shooting discipline, you can put
1:50:39a lot of pressure on very quickly, you
1:50:41know, in a what
1:50:44agitated, frustrated, angry moment.
1:50:52I never intended to to shoot her.
1:50:58Maybe the gun just popped. It just went
1:51:00off. It It went off because ultimately
1:51:03you pulled the trigger. You and I both
1:51:04know that. But if your intention was not
1:51:07to shoot her, I was just so mad when I
1:51:09grabbed the gun. It went off and I
1:51:13didn't plan on shooting her.
1:51:17Then let her know that
1:51:19Melinda got shot. That's never going to
1:51:21go away. That's never going to change.
1:51:27Tell her the truth.
1:51:32Is that a fair representation?
1:51:36>> Yes.
1:51:36>> Okay.
1:51:37>> So, when I got mad and I didn't intend
1:51:41to shoot or the gun just it just went
1:51:43off, is that Do you want me to tell? Is
1:51:45that is is that how you want me to
1:51:47phrase it to her?
1:51:52>> I'm sorry. What?
1:51:54>> I said, "Is that how you want me to
1:51:55phrase it to Aurora?"
1:51:57When I shot her, I didn't mean I didn't
1:52:00intend to shoot her. It just went on.
1:52:04Probably because I was so mad and didn't
1:52:06realize it.
1:52:08Is that fair
1:52:11or
1:52:12>> It was an intentional thing.
1:52:15Okay. Okay. Here. Let me let me make
1:52:18this. Okay. When I shot a moment,
1:52:28I didn't realize
1:52:31it
1:52:32because
1:52:34I was so mad.
1:52:38I put down this uh based on our
1:52:40discussion. When I shot Melinda, I
1:52:42didn't realize it because I was so mad.
1:52:45Meaning
1:52:46>> I never intended.
1:52:49I You know, and tell her that I never
1:52:52intended to kill her.
1:52:53>> I don't know though. I don't know.
1:52:55>> You You don't know if you intended to
1:52:57kill her.
1:52:57>> No, I never would hurt her.
1:52:59>> Okay.
1:53:00>> I'm just saying I don't know what
1:53:02happened.
1:53:03>> Well, we talked. We talked. You said
1:53:06when I shot her or I didn't I didn't
1:53:10realize it went off
1:53:13as opposed to intentionally shooting
1:53:15her.
1:53:16>> I can't remember what I did.
1:53:19>> Okay.
1:53:21Well, I'll tell you what. Let me give
1:53:22you a few seconds here cuz I have to use
1:53:24the boy's room. You do you need the
1:53:26boy's room?
1:53:27>> Uh, no. You okay? Okay. I want you to
1:53:31think about the shooting because let's
1:53:33let's get that let's get that taken care
1:53:34of. You know, because we don't want
1:53:36people to think unless it's the truth,
1:53:39you know, I purposely went out and shot
1:53:41her. Yeah, I was so mad. I want uh I I I
1:53:46was so mad that I didn't realize the gun
1:53:49went off. Okay, that's because you're so
1:53:51mad. I still Two things I want you to
1:53:54think about. The shooting. Let's talk
1:53:56about that. Get that. Was it was the
1:53:58shooting go off and be are you when
1:54:01you're pointing the gun are you saying
1:54:03you know I'm so mad I'm going to shoot
1:54:04her or I'm just so mad and I didn't
1:54:07realize the gun went off cuz you didn't
1:54:09realize your own strength and the and
1:54:11the adrenaline and everything going on.
1:54:13But I also want to talk about what
1:54:14caused the whole situation. People need
1:54:17to understand that because we haven't
1:54:19addressed that yet. And if we don't
1:54:21address it, you know, we don't want wild
1:54:24speculation.
1:54:26Does that make sense? Two things. Okay.
1:54:29>> Yeah.
1:54:29>> Okay. I'm going to take a a small break.
1:54:31I'll be right back.
1:54:33>> I just have to use the boys room.
1:54:40>> Let me see here.
1:54:46>> See if the detective's there.
1:55:01Oh, thank you.

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