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Detectives Question Road Rage Shooter | Nicholas Carrasquillo Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00I didn't want someone
0:03to die because of it.
0:06>> Do you think he needed to die?
0:08>> I don't think anyone necessarily.
0:12>> Disclaimer: This video is for commentary
0:14and educational purposes only. All
0:17individuals are presumed innocent until
0:19proven guilty in a court of law. Any
0:21footage used in this video is obtained
0:22through public records and falls under
0:24fair use for the purpose of reporting,
0:26analysis, and public interest. On the
0:29morning of January 22nd, 2024, traffic
0:33moved steadily along East Colonial Drive
0:35in Orlando, Florida. It was just after
0:386:20 a.m. and commuters were making
0:40their way to work as the day was just
0:42beginning. Somewhere along that stretch
0:44of road, two drivers crossed paths.
0:46According to investigators, the
0:48encounter began as a traffic dispute.
0:50One vehicle allegedly cut off another.
0:53Horns were sounded, lights flashed. The
0:56tension followed both drivers as they
0:57approached a red light near Lake Baldwin
0:59Lane. When the light turned green, one
1:02of the vehicles did not immediately
1:04move. Seconds later, a gunshot rang out.
1:07Investigators say the driver behind
1:09retrieved a firearm from his vehicle and
1:11fired. Multiple shots followed, striking
1:13the vehicle ahead. Inside that car was
1:16David Alexander Sly, who was hit by
1:18gunfire, including a shot to the head.
1:21His vehicle then left the roadway and
1:23crashed into a pole near a Best Buy.
1:26Emergency responders arrived and
1:28transported Sly to a nearby hospital
1:30where he was pronounced dead. Police
1:32quickly began searching for the driver
1:34involved in the shooting. Within hours,
1:36investigators identified Nicholas
1:38Cariscillo as the suspect in the deadly
1:41road rage incident. Later that day,
1:43detectives brought him in for
1:44questioning. This is the interrogation
1:46of Nicholas Cariskillo.
1:48>> Well, it's kind of a crappy question, I
1:49guess. Come on in.
1:54>> Hi, John.
1:55>> Nicholas.
1:56>> Nicholas. Yes.
1:57>> Forest.
1:58>> Forest.
1:59>> Um, we're with the Orlando Police
2:01Department. We're investigating
2:03everything that happened today. Okay.
2:04>> Yes, sir.
2:06>> Just real quick,
2:08everything we discuss and he's going to
2:11take a lot of notes. I'm going to kind
2:12of write down little things here and
2:14there as we talk about it. But before we
2:16go into anything, because this is a
2:18criminal investigation, I do have to
2:20read your rights. You understand that?
2:21>> Yes, sir.
2:22>> Okay.
2:23>> You have the right to remain silent. Do
2:24you understand?
2:25>> Yes, sir.
2:25>> Anything you say may be used against you
2:27in court. Do you understand?
2:28>> Yes, sir.
2:29>> You have the right to talk to a lawyer
2:30before and during questioning. Do you
2:31understand?
2:32>> Yes, sir.
2:33>> If you cannot afford a lawyer and want
2:34one, one will be provided for you before
2:36question without charge. Do you
2:37understand?
2:38>> Yes, sir.
2:38>> Has anyone threatened you or promised
2:40you anything to get you to talk to me?
2:42>> No, sir.
2:43Sir, you clear you understand your
2:45rights?
2:45>> Yes, sir.
2:46>> Okay.
2:54>> Nick.
2:55>> Nicholas.
2:55>> How do you spell it?
2:56>> N I C H O L A S.
2:59>> Middle name.
3:00>> No middle name. Last name. Kasio. C A R
3:04R A S Q U I L L O.
3:11What's your date of birth, sir?
3:14>> 1218
3:151997.
3:19>> Current address,
3:28>> Orlando, Florida.
3:32>> 32807.
3:35>> Was that a house or an apartment?
3:37>> It's a townhouse.
3:38>> Townhouse. Okay. And what's a good
3:40contact phone number for you?
3:48>> Okay. Is that your phone?
3:49>> Yes, sir.
3:49>> All right. Do you have any other phones?
3:51>> Uh, the only other one I remember is my
3:53father's.
4:00>> Okay. But you only have one phone?
4:02>> Yes, sir.
4:03>> Okay.
4:06>> What's your uh email address? Uh, my
4:09first name Nicholas.
4:12N I C H O L A S. Period. Last name C A R
4:17R A S Q U I L L O.
4:30>> All right.
4:33>> What you do for work?
4:35>> Um, I work with my father. I do
4:37landscaping.
4:38>> Nice.
4:38>> Two, three days a week. Just a little
4:40something.
4:41>> Yeah. How long you been doing that?
4:42>> Um,
4:45probably about 3 years. A little bit
4:48after I got out.
4:49>> Nice. You like it?
4:50>> Um, yes. Family business. I worked with
4:54him a little bit before. Okay.
4:56>> In high school.
4:57>> Cool.
4:57>> So, it's kind of like picking up where I
5:00left off.
5:00>> Where'd you go to school?
5:01>> Uh, I went to Evans High School.
5:03>> Nice. All right. So, you're local.
5:05You're from Orlando?
5:06>> Yes. All my family lives here.
5:08>> Nice.
5:10>> Relax a little bit. You don't have to
5:11sit your hands up here. You can do your
5:13best just to kind of take a deep breath
5:15and relax. If you want to sit back,
5:16relax and just if you just relax, okay?
5:20You don't have to I don't I want you
5:22just to We're going to have a
5:23conversation about what happened today.
5:24I know you got some water right here.
5:26You want a snack or something?
5:28>> Okay.
5:28>> Okay.
5:29>> Thank you.
5:29>> All right. So, the easiest way to go
5:33about this is just tell me what
5:35happened.
5:36>> Um,
5:38so pretty much I don't know if you guys
5:41were there where the vehicle was found
5:43afterwards.
5:44>> We have We have been there.
5:45>> Okay. So, I talk with my hands.
5:47>> That's fine. You're totally fine, man.
5:49>> If this is the road and this is where we
5:51found him, we were at the light prior.
5:54>> So, you were on Colonial.
5:56>> Yes, sir.
5:57>> Okay. So, probably
6:00200 meters before he found the vehicle.
6:02>> Okay.
6:02>> Max,
6:04>> you said the light fire. So, that was uh
6:05Lake Baldwin Lane, I believe it is,
6:07>> I believe. So,
6:08>> okay.
6:09>> Um,
6:11so the full story, as I remember, I was
6:14in the far left lane.
6:16Um,
6:18and I just seen a car pull out. Well,
6:21there was a red light, so I was slowing
6:24down and a car cut across two lanes,
6:27stopped like not really straight, but in
6:30front of me.
6:31>> Okay.
6:31>> So, I didn't have to slam my brakes. I
6:33just had to step my step on them a
6:35little harder.
6:37Um, so
6:38>> you were you were driving still at the
6:39time,
6:39>> right? Slowing down for the red light uh
6:42over here.
6:42>> Okay. Um there was probably like two
6:46cars in front of him. So three cars
6:49total in front of me before the light.
6:52Um
6:54and
6:56yeah, it's not heavy traffic, but
6:58moderate traffic. A lot of people going
7:00to work, I guess. Um,
7:03from there, um, yeah, when I, um, slam
7:07my not slam when I press my brakes
7:10harder, I go ahead, I flash him with my
7:11light and I tap my horn and like an
7:15indicator like by the way he pulled in
7:17front of somebody.
7:20And then from there, like he got visibly
7:23upset. like Lord, his window, his car
7:25was still at an angle cuz he didn't have
7:28enough space to straighten out. Um, so
7:32because of that, he was able to see me
7:33clearly.
7:34>> Do you remember what kind of car this
7:36was?
7:37>> It was a white car. Uh, sedan.
7:39>> Okay.
7:40>> Four-door.
7:43>> Um, white or cream.
7:47Then from there,
7:52what happened?
7:55Pretty much that was it until the light
7:57turned green, which was very shortly
8:00after, maybe another 3 or 4 seconds
8:02after I honked my horn. And then from
8:04then, he lowered his window. Um, his
8:07driver's side window.
8:09>> Um, my driver's side window doesn't
8:11work. So, I opened my door kind of,
8:14well, not open. like kind of cracked it
8:16open like four or five inches to kind of
8:18hear
8:21and um
8:24yeah from there
8:27he probably yelled something like like
8:30dummy or something and I probably
8:31something like dummy. I don't remember
8:32the exact words. Um
8:36then from there
8:38I was like drive. I said get out of the
8:42road the lights green.
8:45And
8:46I guess we were both a little heated at
8:48the point already. So he didn't listen.
8:51So at that point the traffic on the
8:54right side's already moving. So I'm at a
8:57point where I can't move now. He's
8:59>> in front of me at an angle.
9:02Um, but he's pretty much all in that
9:05lane. He's just taking up the old way.
9:07Um, but he's not in the other lane.
9:11And from there, I pull out my firearm. I
9:15reach for it. Um, the glove box.
9:20I
9:22whenever I'm driving, I do tend to keep
9:24the magazine already in the firearm, but
9:26no, um,
9:28no bullet in the chamber.
9:32And so I did point it at him. I said,
9:34"Get out of the road, drive." He said,
9:37"Shoot me." I said, "Get out of the
9:38road, drive." It was a back and forth
9:40for maybe
9:44felt longer, but maybe five or six
9:46seconds, 7 seconds. Um, from there, I
9:50fired one shot at the ground pretty much
9:53to see his response, if he's going to
9:56drive off or what.
9:59Um, and I was pretty much trying to pay
10:02attention to him and the lights of his
10:05vehicle as well as possible to see if,
10:08excuse me, see if I see reverse or take
10:11his foot off the brakes or anything to
10:13go forward.
10:15And um, I noticed some shuffling in the
10:17front and then he went to lean out the
10:20window again and then that's when I
10:22fired an additional I want to say four
10:25rounds and maybe a
10:29one and a half two second time span. It
10:32was pretty fast. Okay.
10:35>> From there, I tried to drive off as
10:38safely forward as I could.
10:41Um, and I did probably went down, not
10:46even a light, but I did a Uturn. I just
10:50wanted to make sure I was out of danger.
10:52I wasn't sure what was going on.
10:56I did a U-turn and I pulled back into
10:58the the parking lot just after and
11:02during that time I parked
11:04called my father real quick. I called my
11:07lady real quick just to let him know
11:12like there's no just driving away from
11:14this.
11:16So that um while I was on the phone with
11:20my girlfriend, I called my father first.
11:23I heard the sirens. So, I was like,
11:25"Okay, like I got to go." So, I went on
11:28ahead and make sure that I cleared the
11:30firearm. I put it on the passenger seat
11:32with the magazine next to it. Um,
11:38from there, I grabbed my wallet, my
11:40phone, a vape.
11:42Um, I turned my car off, I locked it,
11:47and I was walking towards the officers
11:49from there. And pretty much when I got
11:53to them, I said it was me. The firearms
11:56on the passenger seat. It's unloaded.
12:00And from there, I pretty much got down
12:02on the ground and got arrested.
12:06>> Okay.
12:08Um,
12:09let's go back and we're going to kind of
12:12break down the whole thing um little by
12:14little. Okay. So, where are you going to
12:18when you're driving? Where are you
12:19headed to?
12:20>> So, I'm going from home to my
12:23grandmother's house in Oakidge. That is
12:25where my father's shop is kind of. It's
12:28where he keeps his work van in the
12:30trailer.
12:31>> Um,
12:32>> is this a route you normally take going
12:34there?
12:34>> This is Yes. My regular route. Um,
12:37>> pretty much about three days a week.
12:39Sometimes four, sometimes two.
12:41>> Okay. Um, as you're coming up to the
12:45intersection, you see the red light?
12:48Yes, sir.
12:48>> Okay.
12:49>> So, I was already slowing down.
12:50>> So, you're already slowing down. Where
12:52does the car come from?
12:56>> From the far right lane.
12:58>> So,
12:59>> there's
13:00>> Did it come out of a parking lot or was
13:01it like in the same going the same
13:02direction you already know?
13:03>> Uh going the same direction. I remember
13:07whenever I I'm about to apply my brakes,
13:10I try to glance my mirrors as quick as
13:12possible. I seen the car moving over
13:16pretty much from the lane beside me to
13:18the far right side lane
13:21and I'm like, okay, like I can prepare
13:22to slow down now. No one's behind me
13:24directly. Um,
13:27and I guess during that time there must
13:30be an SUV or something. I don't see him
13:31cutting across.
13:32>> Okay.
13:33>> So that's when I have to kind of slow
13:36down faster, not slam my brakes, but
13:39press them harder. So the movement from
13:42his vehicle, the direction it came from,
13:44it was like a Was it a turn signal? Was
13:46there just a sudden view?
13:49>> No turn signal. I think he was
13:52>> honestly I think he was more looking at
13:54the cars than the light. And when they
13:56stopped, he was probably trying to avoid
13:58an accident. I don't know.
14:00>> And but it was in a sudden abrupt
14:02movement in front of you.
14:03>> Yes, sir.
14:03>> And that that caused you to
14:06>> uh flash my light. It caused you to stop
14:08faster than you normally were going to.
14:11>> Almost like a quick stop, emergency
14:14stop. Okay.
14:14>> But I didn't fully press the brakes
14:17completely.
14:19>> You didn't crash into him?
14:20>> No, sir. Okay.
14:21>> I was able to stop.
14:22>> How far do you think you were away from
14:25where his car was? Like the driver side?
14:27>> Yeah. The front end of my car to the
14:29back end of his. Um
14:34that's have been
14:37fairly reasonable maybe
14:407 ft or 10 pretty quick like I I was
14:45able to keep a maintain almost a car's
14:47length.
14:48>> So
14:49to say a an average car length distance
14:53away from his car.
14:55>> Yeah. Just just under but almost. Yeah.
14:57>> So you said seven to 10 initially. So
15:00somewhere in between that 7 to 10 foot
15:01maybe a car length. I don't know what
15:02the average car length is but
15:04>> somewhere kind of in that distance.
15:06>> You weren't like right up
15:08>> to
15:08>> No, I I made sure to press my brakes and
15:11give adequate spacing.
15:13>> Did it cause anything in your car that
15:15to like fly forward and fall over or
15:17anything cuz you had to hit the brakes
15:18so hard?
15:18>> Some stuff like I keep my sweater like
15:22passenger seat, little water bottles and
15:24stuff. But I mean I hear stuff moving
15:27around. I mean, my car is kind of a mess
15:29in general.
15:30>> Mine is, too. I get it. But like, did
15:32any of those things like fall off the
15:33seat because you hit your brakes so hard
15:35or anything like that?
15:36>> Yeah, my my sweater was on the ground.
15:39Um,
15:40>> as far as the back seat goes, I I it it
15:43was so like so much happening. I I
15:48honestly didn't pay much attention to
15:50it.
15:50>> Well, it's okay. It's okay. I
15:51understand. I just trying to get a
15:53picture in my mind of like how hard you
15:55had to hit the brakes. You know what I'm
15:57saying? Um, but it was obviously enough
15:59that you didn't get right up and hit
16:01them and you were at least seven to 10
16:03feet away from them.
16:04>> Right. We were
16:07the roads at 45. I was probably going 40
16:10when I saw it turn yellow to red. I was
16:12probably going 30,
16:1625, 30. He pulls in front and I kind of
16:19stop as quick as I can. Not too heavy,
16:22not going too fast. So, it wasn't the
16:25most dramatic stop. Okay. So, at what
16:29point do you kind of flash your lights
16:31and hit your horn?
16:33>> So,
16:35right after I press my brakes, I try to
16:38flash um just to kind of like indicate
16:41like, oh, by the way, you pulled in
16:42front of someone like
16:44>> try not to stop so quick even though I
16:46know like
16:47>> we're coming up to a red light so he has
16:49to anyway.
16:51Um, yeah. So, I flash and then I tap my
16:54horn maybe less than half a second.
16:58>> Were the cars ahead of you already
17:01stopped? The cars that he got behind?
17:03>> Yes.
17:04>> So, those cars were already stopped.
17:05>> Yes, sir.
17:06>> And then he got behind those cars. You
17:08had to stop a little bit harder
17:11>> um
17:12>> in order to avoid
17:13>> to avoid hitting him is what you're
17:14saying. But you were able to stop at
17:15least 7 10 feet away from them
17:17>> from what I can remember. Yes.
17:19>> Okay. And then from there, you're saying
17:22that you flash your lights and kind of
17:23hit your horn real quick like, "Hey, you
17:25cut me off."
17:26>> Yes, sir.
17:27>> Okay. Um,
17:29at that point in time, what did what was
17:31his immediate reaction?
17:33>> His immediate reaction was to lower his
17:36window.
17:36>> Okay. So, his driver's window was up
17:38initially.
17:39>> Yes, sir.
17:40>> And then he lowers it and he did what?
17:42>> He I mean, he started saying something,
17:45but my driver's side window doesn't
17:47work. I had my music on a little bit so
17:50I didn't really hear what he said until
17:52I had like cracked my door to kind of
17:54see what was going on.
17:55>> But you knew like you knew he was
17:57yelling something back at you or saying
17:59something back.
17:59>> Yeah. Well, yeah. Cuz his car was kind
18:01of at an angle,
18:02>> right?
18:03>> So, because of that, when he turned for
18:05his mirror, it was almost
18:08almost kind of like how you're looking
18:10at me a little bit.
18:11>> So, if I'm if if you're like if I'm like
18:13if you're in your car and I'm like in
18:14his car, he just kind of like looks back
18:16at you like this,
18:17>> right? and then says something to you,
18:19>> right?
18:19>> Okay. And that causes because you can't
18:21hear them. You open your door.
18:22>> I lower Yeah. I lower my music. I crack
18:24my door probably four or five inches.
18:27Like a little something. Not enough for
18:29my head to stick out, but enough for
18:31like me to have my ear on the side.
18:34Um during this time, like I said, I
18:36can't fully remember. Um I doubt he
18:39cursed. I I don't think he did. It was
18:41honestly just little
18:44>> adjectives. I call cursing adjectives.
18:46Let's be real. Um, people would curse
18:48all the time. Um, did you curse at him?
18:50Did he curse at you?
18:52>> Um, honestly, I don't think either of us
18:54cursed at anyone.
18:55>> Okay.
18:55>> Oh, excuse me. Sorry. I got
18:57>> Okay.
18:58>> Um, I don't think either of us cursed at
19:01anyone, honestly. I think it was mostly
19:03like like shouting.
19:05>> Just a lot of back and forth yelling.
19:06>> Yeah.
19:07>> All right. So, the yelling's going back
19:09and forth. Are you seated in your car?
19:11>> Yes.
19:12>> Okay. Where was your gun at initially?
19:15Where was it
19:15>> initially? It was in my glove box.
19:17>> So, your glove box is closed?
19:19>> Yes, sir.
19:20>> And the gun is inside there?
19:21>> Yes.
19:22>> There's two magazines.
19:24>> Yes, sir.
19:25>> All right. Um, was a magazine in the
19:28gun?
19:28>> One was. Yes.
19:29>> Okay. Where was the other one at?
19:30>> The other one was
19:33like if this is where your radio is,
19:36there's the cup holders just in front of
19:39the cup holders, not necessarily the
19:41center console.
19:42>> Okay, I got you. towards the front
19:44there's a little dam.
19:46>> So you're yelling back and forth. He's
19:49yelling at you, you're yelling at him.
19:51You've had your door opened a little
19:53bit.
19:54>> Um,
19:55so from when I opened my door,
19:59I can't give an exact time frame.
20:00>> It's okay.
20:02>> Um, it's probably back and forth for
20:05maybe 10 or 15 seconds. Um, feels like a
20:09long time. Um,
20:13>> had traffic started to move when you
20:14guys were yelling?
20:16>> Um,
20:16>> or was it still stopped?
20:19>> It started to move before I grabbed my
20:23firearm.
20:24>> Okay.
20:24>> So, when we started yelling initially,
20:27no. But maybe about
20:298 seconds into that, the light changed
20:31or 5 seconds into that, the light had
20:33changed. The light wasn't red for very
20:35long. And um yeah, for another like five
20:40or six seconds, it's kind of like
20:44a little back and forth. During this
20:46time, I say, "Get out of the road."
20:49He says, "No." So then I reached for the
20:51firearm and I
20:53>> So what what made you reach for your
20:56firearm at that point?
20:58>> Well, cuz at this point I had no way
21:00around him.
21:02>> Okay.
21:03>> And
21:03>> were the cars behind you still?
21:05Um, I don't know if there was a car
21:08directly behind me, but there was cars
21:09moving beside me. Okay.
21:11>> On your right side?
21:12>> Yes, sir. We were both in the far left
21:15lane. Um, both essentially stopping
21:18traffic
21:19>> and you tell them to get out of the way
21:20or get moving or whatever. Yes.
21:22>> What makes you reach for the firearm?
21:24>> When when I feel like I'm kind of like
21:28jammed up at the green light.
21:30>> Okay. Um, I just
21:36like not my instinct, but like something
21:38felt off about like someone not wanting
21:42to drive forward essentially like almost
21:45like a trap feeling.
21:46>> Okay. Um,
21:49was he still seated in his car when you
21:51got your firearm out?
21:53>> Um, yes.
21:54>> Okay.
21:54>> And I was still seated as well.
21:58And then you said you pointed your
21:59firearm at you.
22:00>> And during that time when I went to for
22:02it, I
22:04>> Are you right-hand or left-handed? I'm
22:06sorry.
22:06>> I'm right-handed.
22:07>> Okay.
22:07>> Um, so I put my foot on the brake
22:11and at this time
22:14I step kind of
22:18Yeah, I kind of step out. So, if this is
22:20the driver's seat,
22:24>> kind of have my on the brake and I kind
22:27of step like this.
22:28>> Okay. Where's the gun at right now?
22:30>> Right now, it's in the sand.
22:31>> So, it's in your right hand. You have
22:33your right foot on the brake and you're
22:34kind of left foot on the on the road and
22:37you're kind of standing in the doorway
22:38partially at the car. Partially car.
22:40>> Yes, sir.
22:41>> Okay. So, the gun's in your right hand.
22:42What do you do next?
22:43>> During this time, if this is the person,
22:46I point out here.
22:48>> Okay. on the floor just before maybe 3
22:52ft away from the car.
22:53>> Okay.
22:54>> Um and during that time I say drive
22:58or no I don't say drive. I say get out
23:00of here
23:01>> or get out of the road.
23:03>> Okay.
23:03>> Get out of the road. Um
23:06and then from there
23:09he started just screaming, "Shoot me,
23:12shoot me." I say, "Get out of the road."
23:14And we're pretty much just yelling that
23:17over each other at that point.
23:19Um, and then I show him I pull the
23:22firearm to the side so I can show him
23:24putting uh locking and loading
23:27essentially.
23:28>> So So it you're telling him to drive
23:30down the road and then you rack it so it
23:32loads a a bullet into the chamber,
23:34>> right? Essentially to I'm trying to like
23:37demonstrate escalation of force.
23:40>> Like all right, we use verbal. Now I'm
23:42showing the firearm. I'm showing you
23:44it's an armed firearm.
23:47And then from there, um, he's still
23:51being rowdy. Um, so at that point, I
23:54fire one into the ground.
23:57>> Okay. Right before his car.
23:58>> Yes. Probably about I pull down a little
24:01extra. So if I was 3 feet in front, at
24:03that point it's probably five.
24:05>> Okay.
24:06>> Um to really assess like his response.
24:10What are we doing from here? like
24:14I don't want to shoot anybody, you know.
24:16>> I understand.
24:17>> Um
24:19and from there after I put the uh the
24:22warning shot into the ground, I um
24:28yeah, I just kind of watch to see what
24:30he does. He he reaches back into his car
24:34and I'm like, "Okay, I'm trying to read
24:36lights. I'm trying to see, you know, if
24:39the body's coming back this, you know,
24:41facing my direction, see what's going
24:43on.
24:44But at this point, I'm like, I know for
24:47a fact he sees there are no cars in
24:48front of him. He can at least
24:52go.
24:53This is probably It's pretty fast. It
24:58was maybe a total like
25:013 4 seconds between the warning shot,
25:04maybe five, and then the actual shot was
25:08honestly pretty quick.
25:10Um
25:12because in that time, so I fired the
25:15warning shot,
25:17I seen him reach back in his car, either
25:20I'm assuming to flip the car to drive or
25:22to do whatever the case might be. And
25:25then it wasn't until I don't see any of
25:27the lights change and I see him come
25:29back for the window that I'm like, "Oh,
25:31this is a threat for sure." Like, he
25:34knows I have a firearm, but he's still
25:36not like leaving. That's not his plan.
25:39So, I assume he's going to shoot me.
25:42Like, I'm trapped. I can't escape. I
25:44can't
25:45essentially he has the upper ground.
25:49Um, if he does have something that I
25:51can't see. Um because my whole point is
25:54like I'm letting you know what
25:56everything I'm doing.
25:57>> Yeah.
25:59>> Um from there, yeah, after I fire the
26:03rounds, I try to drive around
26:06and I probably get down less than a
26:11quarter mile.
26:12>> I can get some tissues if you need some.
26:15>> Uh yeah, I'm okay for now.
26:18>> Okay. Um,
26:20so I get down maybe a/4 mile. I honestly
26:24think less. And I turn back down towards
26:28the intersection where it happened. And
26:32just before the intersection, I turn
26:34into um
26:37I'm going to say it's a Best Buy.
26:39>> It's a Best Buy right there.
26:40>> Best Buy parking lot.
26:42And I try to park,
26:46excuse me, essentially where
26:51I try to position myself to where my
26:53driver my driver's side wasn't facing
26:56him. I'm not sure if he was injured or
26:58yet injured yet or not, but my first
27:02thing was
27:04fire a gun, you kind of got to claim it.
27:08>> That's the That's the right thing to do.
27:09>> Yeah. I mean, as many cameras as there
27:11are, there's no point in running. Um,
27:15so I come back around. I see an older
27:18man. At this point, I told you I parked.
27:21I grabbed my
27:24>> Yeah, you talked about that stuff. I
27:26just want to I I'm trying to keep up and
27:28ask certain questions and that pop in my
27:30mind as we're we're talking. And I don't
27:31mean to cut you off and I'm sorry. No,
27:33>> you're fine.
27:33>> Um, but I just want to kind of go back
27:34to the part is it what's the lighting
27:37conditions? What's the sun? in the all
27:40is it dark?
27:40>> At the time of this happening, I want to
27:43say I leave my house
27:46>> at
27:486:05 to 6:10.
27:50>> At the time
27:51>> that this happened, it's um maybe 6:20
27:56and it's pretty dark before the sun
27:59starts to
28:01>> Were your headlights on?
28:03>> Yes, sir. Um, initially it was just my
28:07regular lights, just your day drives.
28:10And then when I put my high beams on,
28:13>> you had your high beams on when he's in
28:14front of you
28:15>> during that entire altercation.
28:17>> So you could see him like you could see
28:19him with your bright lights.
28:20>> Yes, sir.
28:21>> Okay. Um,
28:23did you see did he get out of the car at
28:25all?
28:25>> He did not get out of the car.
28:28>> Okay. He just put the window down.
28:30>> Yeah. So, he already put the window down
28:33essentially when I had tapped the horn
28:35and flashed.
28:37Um, he probably had it down like
28:40majority of the way, like 80% and then
28:44at some point it probably went down the
28:46other little bit. I honestly didn't
28:47notice when it went down the other
28:49little bit, but um
28:52>> during that whole time, so you're able
28:53to clearly with his window down, you're
28:56able when your bright lights are on,
28:57you're able to clearly see him.
28:59>> Yes, sir. Okay.
29:01>> Did you see any weapons at all? Did you
29:03see him with a weapon at all? Not don't
29:04presume.
29:05>> No. No. I I didn't saw I definitely did
29:08not see anything in anyone's hands only
29:10because I mean from where I'm looking.
29:13Yes. You know his chair.
29:15>> Yeah. Don't assume any of that. I just
29:16want to know if you saw
29:18>> No.
29:18>> If he produced a gun, if he produced a
29:20knife, a stick, a bat, any of that kind
29:23of stuff. Did you see any of that kind
29:24of thing? That's what I'm asking.
29:29Um, as far as my memory goes, I didn't
29:32see anything. I just saw from what I
29:37remember in that short time, I saw him
29:39turn.
29:40>> Did he turn left or turn his right?
29:42That's
29:42>> uh initially. So,
29:44>> he's
29:45>> he's initially facing left.
29:47>> Okay.
29:47>> Then he kind of goes right into the
29:49vehicle. Okay.
29:50>> And then this is when I think that he's
29:52either messing with his shift or
29:54whatever the case might be. I don't
29:56know. I'm not assuming.
29:58>> Um,
29:59>> well, it's it's what it's what you're
30:00perceiving in your mind is what I'm
30:02trying to get at. You didn't see a
30:03weapon, but I just want to understand
30:05what you see him do.
30:07>> What I see
30:10>> when he goes in and then reaches back
30:14towards his window to my direction, um,
30:18his left side.
30:22I don't see any of the lights change, so
30:24I know he didn't mess with his uh
30:27shifter, so I assume he grabbed
30:29something.
30:30>> Okay. So,
30:34you fired the warning shot.
30:36>> Yes, sir.
30:36>> He turns to his right inside the car.
30:38>> Yes, sir. And then
30:40>> he comes back left. You didn't see a
30:42weapon.
30:43>> When he turns back left, you just you
30:44didn't see a weapon again?
30:47>> Not that I can remember, sir. Yeah.
30:49>> And then that's when you shot the next
30:52How many times was it?
30:53>> I want to say four.
30:54>> Okay.
30:57>> Did he drive away after that or did you
30:59drive around him?
31:00>> I drove
31:02away.
31:04He followed shortly after, but he I mean
31:09I was honestly trying to drive fast.
31:13I wasn't sure what was going to happen
31:14if he followed me. So I tried to get
31:16some distance and then turned back
31:17around to the scene.
31:19Okay.
31:19>> Um, not to essentially flee.
31:22>> No, I understand. Did you go around the
31:24right side of him or did you go into the
31:26left turn lane and go around that way?
31:28>> I went into the left turn lane cuz at
31:31this point it was clear.
31:33>> Okay. Were there cars when this whole
31:35thing was going on? Were there cars in
31:36the left turn lane next to you?
31:37>> There were there was one or two cars. I
31:40want to say it was just one that was
31:42also already stopped with the other
31:44light uh cars at the light. Um, when the
31:47light turned green, it was green for
31:51the left turn lane and then these other
31:53three lanes
31:54>> and all that flushed out.
31:55>> Correct.
31:56>> But he was still in front of you,
31:58>> right?
31:58>> Okay. Um, questions.
32:01>> Yeah. Could you describe the person that
32:03was in the car? Um,
32:06from what I seen,
32:09probably around my skin color, maybe a
32:11little bit darker,
32:15maybe 5'9, 510. He was seated for most
32:19of the time, maybe
32:22190. Pretty average build. Um,
32:28>> you're talking about a male, female,
32:30>> male. Okay.
32:31>> Um, like he was probably
32:35around 30 years old, maybe a little
32:37younger, a little older. Okay.
32:41>> Um, you said, backing up that you called
32:45your father and a girlfriend.
32:47>> Yes, sir.
32:48>> You did that from your phone?
32:49>> Yes, sir.
32:50>> Okay. What kind of phone do you have?
32:52>> Uh, an iPhone,
32:55I think, like 14.
32:58>> What's the new one? Uh, if it's the
33:01newest one, then one older than the
33:03newest one.
33:04>> And then you called your father first.
33:07>> My father first because I was supposed
33:09to be meeting up with him for work and I
33:12was letting him know that I'm, you know,
33:14going to be doing that essentially.
33:16>> Okay.
33:18And then you called your is it your
33:21girlfriend, wife? What is that?
33:23>> Girlfriend. We We have a house together.
33:27>> Okay.
33:28>> Soon, right? hopefully soon to be live.
33:31>> Okay.
33:32>> Did you call anyone else?
33:34>> Um, no. When I was on the phone with my
33:37girlfriend, I heard the sirens and at
33:40that point, you know, just
33:43try to get to them, honestly.
33:46>> Okay. Um,
33:48>> didn't want to have anyone like waiting
33:49or looking around or I wasn't trying to
33:53build any.
33:54>> I gota I know I get pretty upset. I'm
33:57originally from New York. When people
33:59cut me off, it's very irritating.
34:02What was your mindset during that
34:04initially?
34:04>> Um, initially pretty calm. I had already
34:08texted my father when I had left the
34:10house.
34:11>> Um, normally I try to leave at 6. Like I
34:13said, I left a few minutes after 6. Um,
34:15so I was just saying like, "Hey, I'm
34:17going to be a little bit late."
34:18>> Sure.
34:18>> He's like, "That's fine. I'm on my way
34:21too. Like, I'm not there yet."
34:24So, at this point, I'm pretty much doing
34:26my regular cruise,
34:28>> normal day stuff.
34:29>> Yes, sir. Um,
34:33and yeah, when that happened, it was
34:35pretty much like talking about when he
34:37actually cuts you off.
34:38>> Yeah. When he actually cut me off, um, I
34:41wasn't necessarily a it was more like an
34:43indication.
34:44>> Mhm. What kind of got me a little bit
34:46more bothered was like
34:52not like you didn't take responsibility,
34:55but to me it's too easy to like crack
34:57your window like, "Oh, my bad." And I
34:59would have been like, "You're good,
35:00>> right?"
35:01>> Um, but you can
35:06you can kind of tell he was he was
35:08driving aggressive, being aggressive.
35:11>> Yeah.
35:12you off.
35:14All right. I piss you off.
35:16>> Not really. Honestly, I I don't care
35:19about
35:19>> I get mad. That's why I was wondering.
35:22All right. Um
35:25you said he he cracked his window or was
35:27it all the way down?
35:28>> Um so when he pulls in front um when I
35:31flash and
35:32>> tie my horn, he brings it like probably
35:3480 90% of the way down. Like looks like
35:37he meant to bring it all the way down.
35:39And then I think at some point, I'm not
35:41sure when, he brought it the rest of the
35:43way down.
35:44>> Okay. Were any other of windows down?
35:52>> Not on the
35:55uh driver's side.
35:56>> Okay. So, just his driver window all the
35:59way down.
36:00>> Correct.
36:00>> Okay.
36:02All right. Um,
36:07you said you felt trapped, right?
36:09>> Yes, sir.
36:10>> Okay.
36:12Is this
36:15>> when you're out of the car or when
36:16you're in the car?
36:18>> So,
36:21cuz obviously the situation's evolving
36:23around it.
36:23>> When I'm in the car, at first,
36:26>> he's pretty much fine. The light turns
36:28green. It's okay when the light turns
36:29green
36:30>> because I know he's looking at me. He
36:32doesn't know the lights are in green.
36:33>> Gotcha.
36:34>> So that's why at this point I'm like,
36:36"All right, bro." Like pretty much we're
36:38done. Like get out of the road. Like
36:40time to drive.
36:41>> Now, are you out of the car when this is
36:43happening? When the light turns green.
36:45>> Um when the light turns green, my door's
36:47cracked, but I'm still seated.
36:48>> Okay.
36:50>> Um and at this point talking through the
36:53door with it like four or five inches
36:56open.
36:56>> Yeah.
36:56>> Um
36:57>> and his windows all the way down and you
36:59could see his face.
37:00>> Yeah. Um, honestly, my window would be
37:03down to if it worked.
37:04>> I got you. Okay. How long do you think
37:07the light was green before you got out
37:09of the car?
37:12>> Maybe.
37:18>> Like 7 secondsish.
37:21>> Okay. Before you get out of the car, do
37:25you grab your gun?
37:27>> Yes.
37:28>> Okay. So, you have your gun. And what
37:30hand was that in?
37:31>> That was in my right hand.
37:32>> Okay. When you get out of the car, you
37:35could see the gun right away.
37:37>> No. Um, so when I get out, I stand um
37:41foot on brake
37:43>> pretty much. This is the driver's seat.
37:45>> Sure.
37:46>> Just off side of it. Um,
37:47>> like are you hiding it behind your leg
37:49for protection or what are we?
37:51>> So, initially it's just kind of hanging
37:54beside me.
37:55>> Sure. Um, I know he can't see it just
37:57because it's on my uh dashboard,
38:00>> right? So, he's you're not all the way
38:02out of the car yet,
38:03>> right? And at this point, I stand and
38:06this is when
38:08get out of the road. I say get out of
38:10the road.
38:10>> Now, is your door cracked? Like, if I
38:12could demonstrate like this and you're
38:14still in like the frame of the car and
38:17the door like get out of the road. Okay.
38:19>> At what point do you do you leave that
38:21area?
38:22>> No. So I'm in that area until I sit back
38:25down.
38:26>> So I'm in that area
38:27>> saying you're right there.
38:28>> Correct. So from the this kind of
38:32posture with the door open.
38:34>> Okay.
38:34>> Somewhat.
38:35>> I gotcha. All right.
38:37>> Um
38:38>> so he can't see the gun yet is what
38:41you're saying.
38:41>> Correct.
38:42>> I gotcha. Okay. And that's when you say
38:46>> um so it's pretty much uh I'm saying
38:49like get out of the road. Get out of the
38:51road. What is he saying back to you?
38:54>> I can't fully remember until
38:57>> Is he speaking English? A different
38:59language?
39:00>> It's English.
39:00>> It's English.
39:01>> Yes, sir.
39:01>> Okay.
39:04>> Right. Cuz we have a lot of different
39:05people in Orlando. That's why I asked. I
39:07wasn't trying to be funny. No.
39:08>> So, you don't remember his responses
39:10whether they were positive, negative?
39:12>> They were definitely negative. Um,
39:14>> like what? Can you give an example?
39:22So I don't think he was using like f
39:24bombs. I think he's like what the hell
39:27is your problem? Like what?
39:28>> Yeah.
39:28>> Like what you got going on kind of
39:30thing, but
39:31>> saying this to you?
39:33>> Correct.
39:33>> Okay, I got you.
39:34>> I don't think he's actually using like I
39:36said the fbomb.
39:37>> Yeah.
39:38>> But that energy
39:41like
39:41>> I feel like his aura is off,
39:43>> right? Is
39:43>> that what you're saying? Okay.
39:46>> All right. Um,
39:49now at this point, right, you're
39:50standing, you're still standing up.
39:52>> Yes, sir.
39:54>> And this is when other cars are moving.
39:56>> Now it's a green light.
39:57>> Now it's a green light.
39:59>> If you would have sat back down at this
40:01point, could you have driven around him
40:03to the left?
40:05>> At this point, I was a little bit scared
40:08because at this point, I did already
40:10show a firearm and
40:12>> Okay, so you showed it to him.
40:14So yeah, when I stand up with the door
40:16cracked, initially it's down. I say,
40:18"Get out of the road. Get out of the
40:20road."
40:21>> After doing that for
40:24>> five, six seconds.
40:25>> Yep.
40:26>> At that point, I do point the fire um um
40:29to the ground in front of him.
40:32>> Okay.
40:32>> Two, three feet in front of the car.
40:33>> So he sees
40:34>> That's when you loaded it and pointed
40:35it. Correct.
40:36>> No, I pointed it first.
40:38>> Okay.
40:38>> Um then he's he was yelling, "Shoot me."
40:41I'm yelling, "Get out of the road."
40:43Okay.
40:43>> Um each probably three times.
40:46>> Okay.
40:46>> Um and then from there I kind of turn it
40:49to the side.
40:50>> Okay.
40:50>> At this point right there,
40:53>> it sounds like you tried to give him
40:55every opportunity to drive.
40:57>> Right.
40:58>> So now at this point, are there any cars
41:00to the left? Are you would you have been
41:02able to get in the car and like because
41:04we don't know what he's doing,
41:05>> right? As far
41:06>> trying to visualize. Would you have been
41:08able to get in that left lane and like
41:10drive around him? I that is how I got
41:14out of there by taking that left arm.
41:16>> So is there enough space without hitting
41:18his car is what I'm asking.
41:19>> There is what I feared was the posture
41:23of his car.
41:24>> If I were to essentially go around it
41:27feel like he would
41:28>> pinch me in and kind of keep me trapped
41:30there.
41:31>> Now what about to the right?
41:33>> There was still flowing traffic at that
41:34time.
41:35>> Okay. If there wasn't flowing traffic,
41:37would you have enough space without
41:39hitting his car? Yes, I was able to stop
41:42decent enough pretty good turn radius.
41:44It's a small car.
41:45>> Gotcha.
41:46>> Um, if traffic permitted,
41:50I would have been able to go right.
41:51>> Okay, I gotcha. Um, earlier to use your
41:56word, I think you said something like
41:57rowdy. He's acting rowdy. What is that?
42:00>> Yeah. Um, so
42:04on top of like looking to the side, his
42:06vehicle shaking a lot because I kind of
42:09he's doing a lot of movement in his
42:11chair.
42:11>> Sure.
42:12>> So like a lot of back and forth. Um, but
42:15yeah, his foot on the brake,
42:18excuse me, the car parked.
42:21Um, but like pretty much just the
42:24rocking back and forth and like to turn
42:26around and stuff like
42:28>> you can tell you just see the whole
42:30vehicle move in a lot.
42:31>> Yeah.
42:31>> Going on.
42:32>> When you when you did the demonstration
42:34of him turning, what parts of his body
42:38could you see?
42:39>> So, when he turned,
42:41>> I'm talking specifically when you've got
42:42the gun out already and everything else.
42:43So, when I already have one in the
42:45chamber,
42:46um, when he turns, I can see his face,
42:51his torso.
42:53I can see
42:57I can't see his right hand. I want to
42:59say it's on either on the steering wheel
43:00or down, but at this point, I don't know
43:03where it is.
43:04>> Um, and I can't see his left arm. I want
43:07to say because the car, the um the seat
43:10and everything. But what I do see is his
43:13face and his torso pretty much from he's
43:17a little taller than me. So like here
43:19up. Okay.
43:20>> And and that's at the that's at the
43:21point where you've already got the gun
43:22pointed at him.
43:23>> Correct. After I've both before and
43:27after the warning shot essentially
43:29because he was postured that way prior
43:32to the warning shot and then after going
43:34back into the vehicle facing back left.
43:37So, at any time though, could you
43:42could you see his hands throughout the
43:44interaction ever?
43:45>> No. Um, at one point I might have seen
43:48his right hand. Um, just talking.
43:51Probably flicked me off for some. I
43:53honestly wasn't paying attention. Didn't
43:54look like anything.
43:57>> All right.
44:00>> My stomach's on it, too. Um,
44:04what would I cut you off? I'm sorry. Two
44:06questions that pop in my mind. What
44:07would have happened if you didn't shoot?
44:12>> I
44:15if you got back in your car and just
44:17tried to drive away.
44:17>> If I tried to drive away, I felt like
44:20either I would have been followed or I
44:22would have been stopped before I could
44:24actually get away.
44:26So essentially, if I were to if traffic
44:30were to have cleared on the right, I
44:32feel like if I were to go right, he was
44:34going to follow me.
44:35and
44:41lit um with cameras.
44:45Um but I everything in my like bones
44:50were telling me if I went left, his car
44:52is already facing left. He's just going
44:54to pull forward.
44:57He
44:59wasn't uh not giving up, but backing
45:03off.
45:07I'm just trying to make sure I
45:08understand what's making you think that.
45:10Why are you thinking that? What What are
45:13his actions that are making you think
45:15that if you try to drive away without
45:17getting your gun out? We just say try to
45:18drive away. What What are you seeing?
45:21What What is he presenting that's making
45:23you feel that way? He's
45:27I'm gonna I'm g stick with the word
45:30rowdy because I don't want to say
45:33hostile. I mean, it gets to a point
45:35where it feels hostile, but initially,
45:38like I said, I the word I would use is
45:40rowdy.
45:41>> Mhm.
45:42>> Um,
45:45>> yeah.
45:46>> Do you think if he would have given him
45:48more time that he would have driven
45:50away?
45:51>> No.
45:52>> No.
45:54Why
45:56>> his eyes
45:58something? It
46:03it
46:04the energy
46:07it didn't look like he would have kept
46:09it pushing essentially.
46:11>> Were you scared?
46:12>> Absolutely.
46:14>> Do you think he was scared?
46:16>> Absolutely. I like I said that's why
46:20initially when he was facing me
46:24I don't expect him to see the green
46:26light you know what I mean he's looking
46:28at me um probably doesn't want to turn
46:31his back away from me but when
46:36I started to fear the most is when I
46:39knew I physically saw him posture his
46:42body and head forward
46:44>> Mhm. and had an opportunity
46:48to like flee or to essentially just keep
46:52driving.
46:54Um, that felt like my last safe clear
46:58shot to
47:03like keep it driving like I can move
47:05around like we should be good at this
47:06point. Um, but when he started to turn
47:11back, I knew it
47:16it was to continue.
47:18>> Have you ever had a gun pointed at you?
47:21>> Yes.
47:22>> Really?
47:22>> Yes, sir.
47:23>> How many times in your life have you had
47:25that happen?
47:26>> Um,
47:28on a serious situation, over five.
47:31>> Five.
47:32>> I deployed.
47:34>> Oh, okay.
47:35>> Okay. What branch?
47:37>> Uh, army.
47:40Okay.
47:41>> So, since you've been back in the
47:43States?
47:43>> Yes, sir.
47:45>> Reing that question. Have you ever had a
47:47gun pointed at you?
47:48>> Since being back?
47:51>> No.
47:52>> Okay. So, outside the army, you haven't
47:54had a weapon pointed at you in the
47:56military. I was in the Marine Corps. So,
47:58I I It's a little different. I've had a
48:00firearm pointed at me once before and
48:03then the few times in the military and
48:05then since
48:08>> the reason I'm asking that and obviously
48:12military is different,
48:14what kind of feelings would that produce
48:17for you when a firearms pointed at you?
48:20>> Obviously fear. Um
48:23you don't want to move much.
48:26>> Mhm.
48:27Um, which is why I try to make it clear
48:30like what I am demanding is that you
48:33drive,
48:33>> right?
48:34>> Do you think this guy was scared? Do you
48:38think he was just didn't know what was
48:40going on? That's why I'm asking if he
48:42was verbalizing anything to you cuz in
48:46normal life, right, outside like the
48:48military, law enforcement, these things,
48:50it's I would consider it a little bit
48:51abnormal to have a gun pointed.
48:53>> Absolutely. Just just call it what it
48:55is.
48:56So, I'm trying to, you know, is this guy
48:59in a panic or is he still talking to
49:02you? That's what we're trying to
49:04perceive here.
49:04>> He appears very coherent. He's saying
49:08lots of words, but after the firearm was
49:11pointed, it was mostly shoot me.
49:14>> Really? Shoot me.
49:15>> Huh? That's like an abnormal response,
49:18too.
49:19>> Right. Which is what was so alarming to
49:21me. It felt like he
49:26really didn't care what happened.
49:29>> Think maybe he was just trying to call
49:30your bluff
49:31>> possibly.
49:32>> You're trying to see if you would
49:33actually shoot him,
49:34>> right? Which is why I was trying to
49:36demonstrate the escalation of force like
49:38but now there's a round in the chamber
49:40or a round chambered.
49:42>> I don't like it.
49:44>> Um
49:46like this is you know it's almost to say
49:49like this is more serious
49:52>> kind of like uh the rules of engagement.
49:54in the military, right?
49:55>> Correct.
49:57>> So, you're showing him like, "Hey, I do
50:00have a gun." Now, you're pointing that
50:02gun at him. Like, and what's he doing?
50:06Is he still saying stuff to you?
50:08>> Yes.
50:09>> Like,
50:10>> he gets louder once I point the firearm.
50:12Actually,
50:12>> so the gun's pointed at him, he's
50:14getting louder. You're like, "Let me
50:16show you." I rack it.
50:18>> Right. And yeah, when I do, I pull it a
50:20little bit to the side to kind of
50:23make it more exaggerated to like make it
50:26obvious what's happening. Yeah,
50:28>> essentially.
50:29>> But
50:31still hasn't
50:33you still can't see his hands. He still
50:34hasn't pointed a weapon at you that you
50:35know of yet though, right?
50:37>> Correct.
50:37>> Okay.
50:39But you're at that point you're
50:41>> I'm at a place where Oh, go ahead.
50:44Sorry. At the point you've racked it,
50:45you've pointed it back at them and you
50:47feel now your feelings are what now?
50:48What's going on?
50:50>> Starting almost to swell like to
50:55it's starting to feel more urgent.
50:57>> Okay.
50:58>> Um like what's happening? I'm starting
51:02to feel like I'm having less and less
51:04time to be able to react. Like it's
51:08starting to get more serious essentially
51:11every second or two that go on.
51:15When you point the gun at him, what are
51:17you expecting him to do
51:19>> on initially to freeze? Uh that I feel
51:23is the most natural response,
51:25>> the fight or flight thing. So you think
51:26he's going to freeze up and like then
51:29what
51:31what's the goal of that if he's going to
51:33freeze up?
51:34>> The Well, that's why it was uh to me
51:38more lengthy. It wasn't just all in a
51:40matter of 3 4 seconds. It was
51:43essentially to let him know all I'm
51:45asking is for you to get out of the
51:47road, get out of the way. That's all
51:50that I want. We go on about our days.
51:54Um,
51:58sorry.
51:59>> I could see this brings a lot of emotion
52:02out in you. I would feel the same way.
52:05Do you feel like you did something
52:07wrong?
52:08Um,
52:09>> you could be honest, like it's it's
52:11highly emotional, man. You're, you know,
52:13firing shots at someone.
52:15>> I'm feeling everywhere. I mean, part of
52:18me feels like
52:22you needed to stay safe and part of me
52:24feels like
52:27I took myself away from my family.
52:30>> What do you mean by that?
52:32Well,
52:36my thing is, like I said prior, um, you
52:38fire, you shoot a gun, you pretty much
52:42got to deal with the consequences.
52:43That's the rules.
52:45I know
52:49I honestly would have preferred if
52:50everything was on camera.
52:53Um, it feels like it'd be that much
52:56easier. could be more black and white,
52:58but I know that whenever something like
53:01this happens,
53:03things are up in the air for me a little
53:05bit. Even in the case of self-defense,
53:08>> like, do you feel like you did something
53:10wrong?
53:12That's You could be honest.
53:17>> I feel like I didn't want to hurt
53:19somebody and that did happen.
53:23It feels wrong, but it feels like it was
53:27necessary.
53:29>> Why?
53:32>> Cuz at the time, my fear for my life.
53:38>> Do you think he was in fear for his
53:40life?
53:41>> They would be fair to Yes.
53:44>> Okay.
53:46Um,
53:47you said you, using your words, you
53:50fired about four shots. Yes.
53:52>> After the warning shot.
53:53>> After the warning to the ground.
53:55>> What did you want to have happen with
53:56those four shots?
53:58>> Honestly,
54:02I wanted to meme.
54:06>> What does that mean?
54:07>> Um, not to kill, not to
54:11to
54:13like cause any serious damage. I just
54:16wanted to make sure I was safe.
54:22You're a military guy, right?
54:23>> Yes, sir.
54:24>> When you're shooting on target, are you
54:27trying to kill someone or maim someone?
54:30>> Depends on the target.
54:31>> Are you that good of a shot?
54:36>> I
54:37>> cuz I sure as hell am not.
54:38>> I'm not. No.
54:40>> Okay. I'm asking and this is why we just
54:43want full transparency and honesty here.
54:47What are your intentions with those four
54:49shots?
54:52Because I know when I'm aiming at
54:53someone, if I'm in fear, I have a
54:57certain intention at that point. That's
55:00what I'm asking you. I just want full
55:02honesty.
55:03>> Full honesty. I
55:06I felt like I needed one bullet to hit
55:09him for me to get away.
55:11>> Okay.
55:12to do what with that bullet?
55:17>> To stop him from from essentially making
55:20me feel trapped
55:21>> or chased.
55:23I I never want to kill anybody. That's
55:28that's not what I'm in it for.
55:30>> Do you feel like you needed to kill this
55:32guy to be safe?
55:34>> I feel like I needed to
55:42with what I had. I felt like I did
55:44everything I could to feel safe,
55:47>> right?
55:48>> And it all felt necessary.
55:51>> Okay.
55:55>> Your first shot, you said you aimed for
55:57the ground short of his car.
55:59>> Yes, sir.
56:00>> What were you aiming at on the last four
56:02shots?
56:03>> Um, so essentially the
56:09bottom panel of the car like the
56:14if a car is 5t tall the bottom two and
56:17two two and a half ft.
56:19>> So like the door area
56:20>> waist and legs
56:22>> waist and legs. So when you're aim
56:25pointing the gun at him when you're
56:28aiming at him your goal is to hit
56:32you said waist and legs.
56:33>> Yeah. I don't want to get torso
56:35honestly. Okay. Were they four well-
56:41aimed one like bang aim bang or they
56:44just four rapid?
56:45>> They were four rapid.
56:46>> Okay.
56:49Going back to your military, did you
56:51shoot a gun? I mean, yeah, we all shot
56:53guns from the military, but did you
56:54shoot pistols or rifles only? What' you
56:56shoot?
56:56>> Um, so
56:59mostly
57:01rifle and light machine guns. So I did
57:04M4 SA 240.
57:06>> What was your MOS in the in the army?
57:08>> 11 Bravo. Infantry.
57:10>> Infantry. Okay.
57:11>> Um I have experience with shotguns and
57:15pistols, but less than that of rifles
57:20and the machine guns.
57:22>> How long did you spend in the army?
57:24>> Uh three and a half years.
57:26>> Your first contract.
57:27>> Yeah, you're contract. Um, so your
57:30training was boot camp and bear with me
57:33because I don't know the army's terms of
57:35infantry training.
57:36>> Um, so
57:37>> I think it is.
57:38>> Yeah. So essentially one of the weird
57:40things about the infantry is they bunch
57:43it together. They bunch your like a
57:45school and basic.
57:47>> Okay. So you go to basic and then you
57:49immediately go to a school,
57:50>> right? Well, it's a it's all in the same
57:52place, but it's an extended. Um, so
57:55instead of the regular, I want to say it
57:57was 10 weeks for basic, they had
57:59additional.
58:01>> And you've shot obviously the M16 or
58:04whatever when you were in.
58:06>> Sorry, I was the M16 A2 when I was in
58:08with iron sights, but hey, that's there.
58:10>> Um,
58:12the A4 the you said the what other
58:15weapons, rifles, machine guns?
58:17>> M249, the saw.
58:18>> The 240,
58:20>> the golf.
58:22>> Okay. Um and then the pistol training
58:25you had, you had some pistol training,
58:27>> some
58:28um enough to essentially qualify and
58:32carry on deployment
58:34>> and then did a few qualifications there.
58:38Um zero not
58:42like Yeah.
58:43>> And then since you got out, how long ago
58:46did you get out? I got out in
58:50November of 2020.
58:52>> November 2020. So, three years and a
58:55couple months.
58:57>> Um, have you shot a pistol? Done any
59:00training with a pistol? Gone to a range
59:01or anything with your pistol?
59:03>> I've been to a range twice.
59:07Round started to get expensive.
59:09>> Okay.
59:10>> So, I kind of chilled out. Um, but then
59:13my uncle owned some property in St.
59:16cloud area. Um, Narusi, I don't know if
59:18anyone's familiar.
59:20>> Um,
59:22and it's like a lot of farmland, so we
59:25would practice on his land as well. He's
59:28got
59:30like two rifles and some pistols, but
59:32he's got a board and everything to keep
59:36off his property.
59:38>> The um
59:40the pistol you have, did you shoot that
59:41at the range or at your
59:43>> at the range? Um, I did not bring it to
59:45my uncle's property. I did shoot at the
59:47range.
59:48>> Um, about how many rounds you think you
59:50you personally have shot with that
59:52weapon.
59:53>> With that one in particular,
1:00:00maybe
1:00:02maybe 100. Um, probably closer to 70.
1:00:06>> So, you're familiar with it,
1:00:08>> right?
1:00:09>> Do you know how to to shoot it? Were you
1:00:11hitting your target? Um,
1:00:13>> for the most part,
1:00:14>> for the most part, it's been a little
1:00:17minute at this point. It's for
1:00:18self-defense.
1:00:20>> Okay. What kind of caliber is it?
1:00:22>> Uh, it's a 45.
1:00:24>> What type of gun is it?
1:00:25>> It's a s I want to say it's a six saw,
1:00:30but I think it's a
1:00:33an XDX
1:00:3645.
1:00:38I know that they only had it for like
1:00:40three years and they pretty much
1:00:41discontinued it.
1:00:44>> You bought it from
1:00:45>> Yes, on post.
1:00:46>> Okay.
1:00:47>> On on the base?
1:00:48>> Yes, sir.
1:00:48>> Oh, cool. All right.
1:00:51>> Did you get a good deal for it?
1:00:53>> Um
1:00:54they probably saved like 60 70 bucks and
1:00:57it came.
1:00:58>> It's a deal for
1:00:58>> 60 70 bucks. That's launch bag.
1:01:00>> Yeah. I mean box ammunition. There you
1:01:03go. That's the day at the range.
1:01:06Um,
1:01:07>> ever been to jail, prison, anything like
1:01:09that?
1:01:10>> No, sir.
1:01:10>> Ever been arrested?
1:01:12>> No, sir.
1:01:14>> Okay. Are you um
1:01:18What kind of discharge did you have from
1:01:19the military?
1:01:20>> Honorable.
1:01:21>> Honorable served your time. Honorably
1:01:23discharged.
1:01:24>> Yes, sir.
1:01:24>> Um did you go have you seen the VA for
1:01:27any PTSD? Any injuries that I can't see?
1:01:31>> Um and that kind of stuff?
1:01:32>> Yes. Um, a lot of it's physical stuff.
1:01:37Shoulders, back, knees, um,
1:01:39>> from getting shot or like falling and
1:01:42carrying all the crap we carried. And
1:01:43>> the wear and tear,
1:01:44>> the beating up your body.
1:01:45>> Yeah, for the most part. Um,
1:01:49and I did have a TBI.
1:01:55That was pretty much
1:01:56>> traumatic brain injuries, not just
1:01:58something small. Well, according to
1:02:00them, they put minor traumatic brain
1:02:02injury,
1:02:03>> then that's sounds ridiculous.
1:02:05>> Call me crazy, man.
1:02:06>> That sounds like keeping him at 90%.
1:02:08>> So, you get disability from the uh the
1:02:10army.
1:02:11>> Yes, sir.
1:02:11>> 90%.
1:02:12>> Yes, sir.
1:02:12>> Based on what you just said, I So, if
1:02:16you don't mind me asking, I mean, what
1:02:17happened? How'd that happen?
1:02:18>> Um,
1:02:21uh, really wear and tear. Um,
1:02:24>> on the brain.
1:02:25>> Oh, that that that Sorry, I thought you
1:02:26meant the 90%
1:02:28Uh,
1:02:29>> that's a pretty good portion.
1:02:30>> Um,
1:02:32so
1:02:35they didn't really pinpoint one thing.
1:02:38It was kind of like a series of things.
1:02:40I was in a striker accident. Um,
1:02:44>> striker those big like
1:02:46>> Yeah, like uh eight wheels on each side
1:02:49kind of thing. It's almost a tank, but
1:02:51it's a little smaller.
1:02:53>> Um,
1:02:53>> when you say accident, what do I mean?
1:02:55like a car accident or
1:02:57>> Yeah. So, we were in the back half of it
1:02:59and um we were driving probably
1:03:0230k
1:03:04and then we got sideswiped at 25 by
1:03:08another striker
1:03:09>> on the range.
1:03:11>> Yeah, we had a few guys get concussions
1:03:14with the helmets on still.
1:03:16>> Okay.
1:03:18Um,
1:03:19so that was back in at the beginning of
1:03:232018 or the end of 17. I want to say the
1:03:25end of 17.
1:03:27Um, I had done um some combives during
1:03:32my time there.
1:03:34Um,
1:03:36I tried to compete a little bit. Did
1:03:38okay. Also got hit pretty hard a few
1:03:42times. Um, didn't know when to tap
1:03:44sometimes. So, I know that I've gone to
1:03:47sleep a few times, if you will.
1:03:49>> You did some mixed martial arts kind of
1:03:51stuff, military style,
1:03:52>> right? Um, and other than that, I was in
1:03:56a pedestrian
1:03:58vehicle accident. I was hit by a car in
1:04:01a parking lot.
1:04:03>> Okay.
1:04:03>> And at that point, I um I fell back and
1:04:07hit my head, too. But I kind of rolled
1:04:10with it. So, it
1:04:13>> Oh, that was when you were in the army.
1:04:14Yeah.
1:04:16>> Okay.
1:04:17>> Wow.
1:04:18>> How old are you?
1:04:19>> 26.
1:04:20>> Okay.
1:04:21>> Still young, man.
1:04:22>> Yeah.
1:04:23>> Um, just to backtrack a little, I'm
1:04:25trying to understand something.
1:04:28You said you wanted to maim. Is that the
1:04:31word you used? Maim guy.
1:04:33>> Yeah. I don't know if that's the right
1:04:34word. Um, essentially like
1:04:40to to slow him down.
1:04:42>> To stop him. nonlethal,
1:04:45if you will.
1:04:47>> Okay.
1:04:50Were you worried that he would have a
1:04:52weapon?
1:04:53>> Yes.
1:04:54>> Okay. If you were trying to slow him
1:04:57down, right, and he did have a weapon,
1:05:02don't you think he would have been able
1:05:04to potentially start shooting back at
1:05:07you? Don't you think that would have
1:05:08been a problem?
1:05:10>> Yes and no. I think that if he didn't
1:05:13have it on his person on his lap
1:05:16essentially, if it was say in his glove
1:05:18box, um if he had to put a magazine in,
1:05:21if he had to lock and load, these are
1:05:23all things that, you know, I'm not sure.
1:05:26So, in my head, when he didn't reach for
1:05:29the shifter when he turned back in after
1:05:32the shifter,
1:05:34>> no.
1:05:34>> Okay.
1:05:35>> But I I can just tell the lights didn't
1:05:37change.
1:05:37>> Did you see brake lights the whole time?
1:05:39>> Yes.
1:05:39>> So, his brake lights were on? Yes.
1:05:41>> Like his foot was on a brake.
1:05:45>> I
1:05:47I want to say yes.
1:05:49>> You know, tail lights are a certain
1:05:51level and brake lights are the third
1:05:52brake light and all the really bright
1:05:54lights,
1:05:54>> right? I want to say it was all the
1:05:56really bright lights. Like it was on the
1:05:58on the brake but in the drive.
1:06:03>> Okay.
1:06:03>> Does he ever straighten his car out?
1:06:06>> No.
1:06:08So if he was still on that angle.
1:06:10>> Yes, sir.
1:06:14>> Okay. So you fire the four shots.
1:06:19Does he start to drive away before,
1:06:21after, during?
1:06:22>> Um
1:06:24during that time I go to sit down.
1:06:28>> You already shot. Now you're sitting
1:06:30down,
1:06:30>> right?
1:06:30>> Okay. Um, I look for probably two
1:06:35seconds as I'm going to put the car into
1:06:38drive and when I go to
1:06:43essentially drive off to the left, I see
1:06:45him also moving forward but slower.
1:06:48>> So, you drive around to the left.
1:06:51>> Yes. And then come back into the
1:06:53intersection.
1:06:53>> Were you afraid that if you drove around
1:06:55to the left that he would cut you off
1:06:57again? initially, but I kind of figured
1:07:00I had the element of surprise or that
1:07:03>> because now you shot him or shot at him,
1:07:06>> right?
1:07:06>> Okay.
1:07:08>> So, I figured he's not necessarily
1:07:10focused on trapping me.
1:07:13>> Okay.
1:07:14>> More so, he'd be focused on getting away
1:07:16himself.
1:07:16>> As you drive around him, did you see him
1:07:19again as you're driving and passing him?
1:07:21>> Um, I I'm looking kind of straight. I
1:07:26look over briefly. M sure.
1:07:28>> Um,
1:07:30but I I don't see much. Um, I really
1:07:34don't see like I don't see any blood. I
1:07:36don't see anything like that.
1:07:38>> Mhm.
1:07:38>> So I
1:07:39>> Did you see him?
1:07:40>> I saw him still. Yes.
1:07:42>> What was his demeanor? Was he still
1:07:44talking?
1:07:44>> He was essentially
1:07:49um kind of like watching me.
1:07:53>> He was still looking out the window.
1:07:54>> Yeah. This was his driver's seat.
1:07:57Um, I want to say he was like this. So,
1:08:01in his driver's seat.
1:08:02>> Yeah.
1:08:03>> But looking kind of to the left.
1:08:06>> Okay. Do you think you hit him?
1:08:08>> Um,
1:08:10I saw blood on his car when we drove off
1:08:13on the way here. I know.
1:08:15>> Well, at the time at the time you're
1:08:18driving around him through the left turn
1:08:20lane in front of his car.
1:08:22>> I I don't know. Um,
1:08:26I figured I might have hit his leg or
1:08:27something. Um, whatever the case is, I
1:08:30try to park some distance away from his
1:08:32vehicle until
1:08:34>> Sure.
1:08:34>> officers arrive and they essentially
1:08:36have the situation.
1:08:38>> Why' you come back?
1:08:40If he had a weapon, wouldn't you be
1:08:43worried that he would re-engage with
1:08:45you?
1:08:46>> At the time, I I didn't want to like
1:08:48flee. I I didn't want to be running away
1:08:51from law enforcement. I
1:08:54kind of panicked and turned back
1:08:56honestly.
1:08:57>> Yeah.
1:08:58>> Yeah. I I I just Yeah. I couldn't be on
1:09:03the run or anything like that.
1:09:05>> Why would you be on the run if you
1:09:06didn't do anything wrong?
1:09:09>> Fleeing is a crime.
1:09:13>> So, you come back.
1:09:15Were cops there already or was it just
1:09:17the car
1:09:18>> at the time? Um,
1:09:21I see lights
1:09:25down the road when I'm turning into left
1:09:29into Best Buy.
1:09:31>> The cops are not there yet.
1:09:33>> Not there yet. No.
1:09:35>> So, if this guy had a weapon, would he
1:09:37have known what your car looks like?
1:09:40>> I don't think so.
1:09:42>> You don't think he saw your car?
1:09:45>> Um, I know he saw the front of my car
1:09:47and he saw me.
1:09:48>> Okay. But excuse me. Like I said, I had
1:09:51my uh high beams on.
1:09:53>> Mhm.
1:09:53>> And I was behind him for the most part.
1:09:56So I think
1:09:58I think that it would have been kind of
1:10:00hard for him to see.
1:10:01>> Sure.
1:10:02>> During So during when you're backing up
1:10:05a little bit more, at what point do your
1:10:06high beams go on? Is that during that
1:10:08whole altercation with him?
1:10:11>> Um
1:10:12so when I go to when he pulls in
1:10:16>> Yeah. I turn them on and the high beams
1:10:19stay on from there.
1:10:20>> Could he see you clearly, you think? Or
1:10:23was that helping you because he's got
1:10:26light in his face?
1:10:27>> Um, I think it might have been a little
1:10:29harder for him to see me, which is why I
1:10:31try to be very uh
1:10:35not dramatic with my movements, but
1:10:38essentially try to make everything look
1:10:40as clear as possible.
1:10:42>> I got you. To give yourself little
1:10:44advantages here and there. That makes
1:10:47sense.
1:10:49Okay.
1:10:51You call your dad first. And is that
1:10:54from the phone number you gave us?
1:11:00>> Okay.
1:11:04>> And your dad's phone number
1:11:06>> is the one beside it.
1:11:10>> What did you tell your dad? I told him,
1:11:14"I
1:11:16I shot my gun. I'm at the Best Buy."
1:11:22And he kind of panicked. He's like,
1:11:24"What's going on?
1:11:26I need to call Destiny, which is my
1:11:29girlfriend's name."
1:11:30>> Okay. And she lives with you right now?
1:11:33>> Yes, sir.
1:11:34>> And that's the address you gave us?
1:11:37>> Yes.
1:11:41Okay. U So, you hang up the phone with
1:11:45your dad or he hangs up with you?
1:11:47>> I think I hang up on him.
1:11:49>> Okay. And then who do you call?
1:11:51>> Then I call Destiny. She doesn't answer.
1:11:54I want to say she's asleep.
1:11:58I
1:11:58>> talk to her at all.
1:11:59>> Yes.
1:12:00>> Okay.
1:12:01>> Uh so I I called uh back like when she
1:12:05didn't answer in the first three rings,
1:12:07it didn't go to voicemail. I hung up and
1:12:09I called again.
1:12:10>> Mhm.
1:12:11>> Um,
1:12:13and
1:12:15then I want to say while that was
1:12:16ringing, I texted her.
1:12:19>> What' you text her?
1:12:21>> I said
1:12:23um I think I said
1:12:28SOS. It's serious.
1:12:30>> Okay.
1:12:30>> Essentially like
1:12:33if you're seeing this actually wake up.
1:12:35It's not just me texting you to say,
1:12:36"Hey, what's up?"
1:12:37>> Right.
1:12:38Um,
1:12:40and while I'm sending the text, I don't
1:12:44even know if she reads it. Yeah, she
1:12:45calls back.
1:12:46>> Okay. And what did you have that
1:12:49conversation?
1:12:50>> I said the cops are on the way. I'm at
1:12:53Best Buy down the road. She said where?
1:12:55I said on Colonial, right by the house
1:12:58um across from the hair store where she
1:13:01gets her hair from the place across the
1:13:03street.
1:13:03>> Okay. Um,
1:13:06I was like, "The cops are here. I got to
1:13:08go."
1:13:10>> Did she say anything back to you?
1:13:12>> Um,
1:13:16I think she said, "Hey," at first and
1:13:19then I kind of
1:13:22word vomited.
1:13:23>> Like, I just started talking and then
1:13:26I'm go.
1:13:27>> Okay. So, you see the cops pull up?
1:13:30>> Yes, sir. I I want to say I see two
1:13:33vehicles.
1:13:34>> Okay. Um
1:13:35>> can you describe them?
1:13:38>> Um I see
1:13:40if I parked here and his car is here.
1:13:45There was an older man with a gray truck
1:13:48up here.
1:13:49>> Okay.
1:13:50>> A little further. Um
1:13:54this scene when I get out of my car, I
1:13:56see the man in the with the beard and
1:13:59the gray truck around here.
1:14:01And I see the vehicle. I see
1:14:06I want to say two officers.
1:14:10One or two officers. I can't remember.
1:14:12>> And what were they doing?
1:14:14>> They were by the passenger door. They I
1:14:16want to say they were just walking up to
1:14:18it.
1:14:19>> Okay.
1:14:20>> Um
1:14:22and as they do that, I'm walking not on
1:14:25the sidewalk, uh further in in the
1:14:27grass.
1:14:29Um, at this point I have my keys, my
1:14:33wallet, my phone's in my pocket,
1:14:36and a vape. Um,
1:14:41then from there, I'm walking down. Um,
1:14:47>> I want to say one of these officers, uh,
1:14:50radio.
1:14:52>> Walking down. What does that mean? Where
1:14:53are you walking? Um I'm I had parked in
1:14:57the parking lot of the Best Buy and uh
1:15:00pretty much all these vehicles are uh on
1:15:02the side of the road.
1:15:04>> Mhm.
1:15:04>> But they're in that uh last right lane.
1:15:08Um so there's grass, sidewalk, and then
1:15:12more grass before um
1:15:16it was a building um on that corner.
1:15:18>> Okay.
1:15:19>> So I was walking pretty much between the
1:15:21sidewalk and the building. Um
1:15:24but pretty close to the sidewalk and in
1:15:27the light and everything. Um try to stay
1:15:30visible.
1:15:32Um
1:15:34and then at the time
1:15:36I want to say an officer phone like
1:15:39radios or says to another officer,
1:15:43um you got one
1:15:46coming your way or coming up on you or
1:15:48something. I was the one. So, at that
1:15:50point, I had stopped, waited for him to
1:15:52see me, and at that point, I mean, he
1:15:56kind of was walking towards me. Um,
1:16:02I'll just say he points his gun, says,
1:16:05"Get on the ground." Or he says, "Get on
1:16:07the ground." I get on the ground.
1:16:11I'm laying like this. I want to say he
1:16:13says, "If you reach for anything, I'll
1:16:14shoot." And I said, I want to say I
1:16:17said, "Yes, sir.
1:16:19and he was
1:16:22pretty much right here straight on, a
1:16:24little bit offset.
1:16:26And another officer came around from my
1:16:29left, put my hands behind my back.
1:16:32>> Um,
1:16:34at that point, um, yeah, I had the
1:16:39handcuffs on.
1:16:41I told him my keys and my wallet was
1:16:43there with my identification.
1:16:46And then I said that the firearm was on
1:16:49the passenger seat. It's um now you can
1:16:53lock it back so you can check
1:16:55everything. Magazine on the side.
1:16:59>> Um
1:17:01>> right. the
1:17:05so the total time I want to try and get
1:17:08out here is from the time he pulls in
1:17:11front of you until the time you drive
1:17:14around to go away about approximately
1:17:17how long do you think that that whole
1:17:19time was?
1:17:21>> Um
1:17:22>> I only asked because you said like three
1:17:24or four seconds here five or seven
1:17:25seconds I'm trying to get an idea like a
1:17:27full um
1:17:34Probably somewhere between
1:17:3830 and 40 seconds.
1:17:41>> Okay. So, somewhere between 30 and 40
1:17:43seconds from the time he pulls in front
1:17:45of you to the time you're finally able
1:17:46to drive or
1:17:47>> No, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Um, a little
1:17:50bit over a minute. Um,
1:17:55>> maybe closer to like minute, minute and
1:17:58a half.
1:17:59>> Okay. Let's look then let's break it
1:18:00down like this then. So he pulls in
1:18:02front of you. How quickly do you flash
1:18:03your lights and then honk your horn?
1:18:05>> Um almost immediately after I'm uh I
1:18:10press my brakes harder. Um
1:18:15maybe like
1:18:18two seconds after applying my brakes. I
1:18:21>> I do that sometimes too and it's almost
1:18:23it's like hey I'm right here you know
1:18:24>> right? So it's almost simultaneously to
1:18:27their actions than I do it,
1:18:28>> right? It's just after
1:18:30>> So like a few seconds.
1:18:31>> Yeah. One or two.
1:18:32>> Then how quickly does he put his window
1:18:34down and start saying something to you?
1:18:36>> Um so that wasn't immediate. Um
1:18:41at first I'm assuming that he's like
1:18:45listening to music and just kind of
1:18:47vibing essentially.
1:18:49>> Um and then after that I want to say at
1:18:52that point it's probably
1:18:58Maybe another three second, two, three
1:19:01seconds after the horn and everything
1:19:03that he rolls his window down.
1:19:05>> So, he would have he would have
1:19:06acknowledged the horn and the lights,
1:19:09but it would have took him a couple
1:19:10seconds to,
1:19:11>> right? It wasn't like as I'm doing it,
1:19:12he's pressing it down, but it wasn't a
1:19:15whole lot longer after.
1:19:16>> But it was clear he acknowledged it. So,
1:19:17it was only a few seconds,
1:19:19>> right? So, we're looking at like
1:19:21somewhere in the ballpark of like six to
1:19:24seven seconds roughly till he's putting
1:19:26his window down,
1:19:26>> right?
1:19:27>> Okay. Um, once the window's down, how's
1:19:30how long before you open your door a
1:19:32little bit just to like hear what he's
1:19:33saying? Like,
1:19:34>> um, so he got a few words out um before
1:19:37I I like cracked my door. Um,
1:19:42probably another like 3 seconds kind of
1:19:44like me noticing him talking 3 4 seconds
1:19:47like I'm going on for a little bit.
1:19:49>> I'm doing I'm just trying to keep track
1:19:50of the numbers. So, we're right about 10
1:19:52to 11 seconds right now.
1:19:54>> I got you.
1:19:54>> So, that's and that's when you open your
1:19:56door, right?
1:19:57>> And you're communicating back now. So,
1:19:58about 10 seconds roughly has gone by,
1:20:00>> right?
1:20:01>> Okay. How long do you think you guys are
1:20:03communicating before you actually grab
1:20:05your firearm? So, at this point, um,
1:20:08we're both saying a little nonsense. Um,
1:20:22I'm sorry. I um we're both talking a
1:20:25little nonsense
1:20:27and then from when I crack the window I
1:20:30say
1:20:33probably like, "All right, dummy.
1:20:36Whatever." Um that's probably only like
1:20:39two seconds before the light changes. So
1:20:42when I open the door, crack the door,
1:20:44it's probably like another two or three
1:20:46seconds the light changes.
1:20:48>> Mhm.
1:20:48>> Um
1:20:49>> So you're already you cracked the door.
1:20:51So it's like 10 seconds is what? 10 to
1:20:5311 seconds is where we're at is you're
1:20:55at and you've opened the door a little
1:20:56bit and you're you're back and forth
1:20:57with each other. That's where we're at
1:20:59right now,
1:20:59>> right? So
1:21:00>> I'm not worried about the line. I'm
1:21:01worried about about how long before you
1:21:03grab your gun. So the doors open, the
1:21:06verbal exchange is happening.
1:21:08>> Yes.
1:21:09>> How long before you grab your gun?
1:21:10>> Um
1:21:12so
1:21:14what caused me to grab my firearm was
1:21:17the light changing and it kind of
1:21:19already being there for a minute. So it
1:21:22from that conversation or from cracking
1:21:25the door to grabbing the firearm
1:21:30maybe
1:21:3420 seconds give or take like 5 seconds
1:21:38just to crack and like kind of talk a
1:21:40little bit and another
1:21:43five seconds of like going ahead and
1:21:47then like
1:21:49kind of like take another like 3 seconds
1:21:51to kind of get back in, grab, situate.
1:21:54That's another like four, five, 6
1:21:56seconds. So, probably say 20 from that
1:21:59point.
1:22:00>> Okay. So, if we'll add that to the 10.
1:22:01So, we're at 30 seconds and you have the
1:22:03gun in your hand at this point.
1:22:04>> Correct.
1:22:05>> Okay. So,
1:22:08you said 2 seconds after you open your
1:22:10door a little bit, the light turned
1:22:12green.
1:22:13>> Yeah. Like two, three, four seconds.
1:22:15Like a few seconds after. Yeah.
1:22:19How long between the light turning green
1:22:23and you grabbing the gun roughly?
1:22:26Because you said two, four, five. So,
1:22:28>> yeah, it was probably about 10 seconds
1:22:31or 8 to 10 seconds from that point.
1:22:34>> Okay.
1:22:35>> Um, probably closer to 10 just because
1:22:38of sitting back down.
1:22:39>> You say sitting back down.
1:22:41>> Had you gotten out initially?
1:22:43>> No, no, no. You're right. You're right.
1:22:45I'm just sitting leaning. Um,
1:22:48then from there, yeah, that's why it was
1:22:50so immediate. I reach over, I grab, and
1:22:52then I'm kind of like fumbling with the
1:22:55magazine for a second.
1:22:57>> Okay. So,
1:22:57>> that it's in there, but I'm I was
1:23:02What was I doing?
1:23:04Honestly, I grabbed it. Yeah. And the
1:23:08magazine was already in there. It was on
1:23:10safe. There was nothing in the chamber.
1:23:12I just grab it. Um,
1:23:16pop it, reach over,
1:23:18sit, lean forward.
1:23:23Um,
1:23:27yeah, a few seconds.
1:23:32So, from the time, follow me. We're at
1:23:3510 seconds where the doors open and you
1:23:37start the exchange,
1:23:38>> right? Then you said it's about 20
1:23:40seconds and then you grab your gun. And
1:23:43then are you in that 20 seconds include
1:23:45you standing up out of the car or is
1:23:46that include you just grabbing the gun?
1:23:49>> And that that includes
1:23:57>> I'm just trying to figure out how
1:23:58quickly this all transpired. So
1:24:00>> um yeah, I'm trying to remember if I
1:24:02stood up to yell before um stand up once
1:24:05you had your gun in your hand.
1:24:10Yes.
1:24:10>> Okay. So, is it is it is it safe to say
1:24:14>> between 30 and 35 seconds from the time
1:24:17he pulls in front of you to the time
1:24:18you're outside your car with your gun in
1:24:19your hand?
1:24:20>> Right.
1:24:20>> Is that safe to say?
1:24:22>> Uh, that feels about right. Oh,
1:24:24>> okay.
1:24:25>> Yeah.
1:24:25>> So, I'm just I'm just So, it's safe to
1:24:28say between 30 and 35 seconds from the
1:24:29time he pulls in front of you by the
1:24:31time you're already outside your car
1:24:32with your gun in your hand. Okay.
1:24:34>> How quickly do you point the gun at him?
1:24:37So from me standing
1:24:41and me kind of
1:24:44meeting up pointed to the ground.
1:24:50Um maybe another like two or three
1:24:53seconds. It's like at the point I make
1:24:56sure the car's like my foot's on the
1:24:58brake heavy enough. crack the door and
1:25:02then kind of point between say the door
1:25:05and the the rest of the car right there
1:25:09like that um to the ground in front of
1:25:11him. So that probably is 3 seconds
1:25:15maybe.
1:25:16>> Okay. So it's safe to say about
1:25:1835
1:25:20to 38 seconds
1:25:22>> or by the time you're pointing the gun
1:25:23at the ground right in front of them.
1:25:24>> Right.
1:25:25>> Do you immediately shoot or do you give
1:25:27it a couple more seconds?
1:25:28>> Um at this point we're talking.
1:25:29>> Okay. So, this is where I say, "Get out
1:25:33of the road." And get out of the road.
1:25:36He's saying, "Shoot me." Um, pretty much
1:25:40if you're going to point, do it. But
1:25:41he's just saying, "Shoot me." Over and
1:25:43over again. Um, I'm like, "Get out of
1:25:45the road. Get out of the road." We're
1:25:47going back and forth. That goes on for
1:25:50maybe
1:25:5310 to like 13 seconds.
1:25:56>> Okay. Okay. So, if I'm doing the math,
1:25:57I'm at like in the ballpark of 45 to
1:26:00maybe 48 seconds, maybe.
1:26:02>> Yeah, give or take. 4550.
1:26:04>> 45 to 50 seconds. Okay.
1:26:06>> Um,
1:26:07>> then the then that's when the first shot
1:26:09happens. Or is that when you rack the
1:26:10gun?
1:26:11>> That's when I turn and rack the gun and
1:26:13then there's another maybe
1:26:18four seconds of that same back and forth
1:26:22almost like he was unfazed. Did you ever
1:26:25tell him
1:26:27if you don't move I'm going to shoot
1:26:28you?
1:26:31>> I
1:26:32>> He's saying shoot me. Shoot me.
1:26:34>> What? Are you saying anything like that
1:26:36to him?
1:26:37>> No. Uh I don't
1:26:40recall saying anything.
1:26:42>> You're talking about escalating the the
1:26:44the force.
1:26:47So that includes a verbal threat. I
1:26:50mean, just presenting is one thing,
1:26:52right? But telling him, "Hey, you you
1:26:54don't leave, I'm going to shoot you." Do
1:26:55you ever do you ever say that?
1:26:57>> Um,
1:26:59I say,
1:27:02"Get out of the road.
1:27:06Leave. Get out of the road. Get out of
1:27:09the road.
1:27:21If if you said it, you said it is what
1:27:23it is. Because I mean, you're presenting
1:27:24it telling you're presenting it with a a
1:27:26visual like, "Hey, get out of the road.
1:27:29If you don't leave, here's my gun. I can
1:27:31shoot you. I've racked it and now
1:27:32there's a gun. There's a bullet in
1:27:33chamber." I mean, if you said it, you've
1:27:35already done everything presented it.
1:27:37Did you say it?
1:27:39>> Um,
1:27:39>> just to kind of get
1:27:40>> I
1:27:41>> that point across.
1:27:42>> One of those moments that I wish I had
1:27:44it on camera. I'm I can't I don't want
1:27:46to lie to you. I can't give an on a
1:27:48definite answer.
1:27:50Well, I
1:27:56I want to say yes,
1:27:58I did,
1:28:04but I'm a little fuzzy.
1:28:07>> Okay. So,
1:28:10going back to the military, you said you
1:28:12had guns pointed at you before.
1:28:14>> Yes, sir.
1:28:15>> When those guns were pointed at you and
1:28:17you pointed a gun back? No. Um
1:28:22uh yes and no. Yes and no. Um so part of
1:28:26it was what we did there was
1:28:31>> Were they other army? Were they
1:28:32combatants or were they fellow soldiers?
1:28:35>> It was uh it was like Afghan military or
1:28:38Afghan uh
1:28:38>> So if they pointed a gun at you, would
1:28:40you point a gun and give them commands,
1:28:41drop your weapons or I'll shoot you?
1:28:43>> Um well, we kind of read off the body
1:28:46language a lot. So if
1:28:49>> body language is pretty simple if
1:28:51somebody's pointing a gun at me
1:28:54>> kind of uh they always keep their finger
1:28:57on the trigger. So it's not the trigger
1:28:59discipline of having it on the uh
1:29:01outside of the well. Um and then they
1:29:04would often times kind of just posture
1:29:07themselves towards you.
1:29:09And it doesn't feel threatening. It
1:29:12doesn't really look too threatening, but
1:29:14at the end of the day, there's a finger
1:29:15on the trigger while the gun's pointed
1:29:17at you.
1:29:18>> I'd be upset.
1:29:19>> I'd be
1:29:20>> right. So, at that point, um,
1:29:23we're also
1:29:26kind of trying to keep it somewhat
1:29:27friendly. So, before just like everyone
1:29:29just pointing guns at everyone. It's
1:29:31more a matter of like say this is the
1:29:33firearm, you have it kind of pointed
1:29:34towards me. I'd be like, "All right."
1:29:36Like, start a conversation. Um, because
1:29:39I know we're supposed to be friendlies.
1:29:41Okay. Like I I what I'm trying to get at
1:29:44is you're you're visualizing by way of
1:29:48the firearm in your hand putting the
1:29:50round in the chamber. Are you
1:29:52verbalizing
1:29:54anything to him as to what would happen
1:29:56if he didn't move?
1:30:00>> Um
1:30:00>> you're telling him to drive, get out of
1:30:02the road.
1:30:04>> I
1:30:07I want to say Yeah.
1:30:11Look, it is I mean with the scheme of
1:30:14everything that's going on right now,
1:30:15you've you've gotten a firearm out,
1:30:18you've gotten out of your car, you've
1:30:19loaded it, you've pointed it at them,
1:30:21you pointed at the at the road right in
1:30:22front of them.
1:30:25I mean, there's all the visualizations.
1:30:28What's the verbalization is all I was
1:30:30getting at. So, you you shoot a round
1:30:32off. Okay. And I think we were at 45 to
1:30:3550 seconds roughly.
1:30:37>> Yeah.
1:30:37>> When that that's safe to say when the
1:30:39the round the first round gets fired,
1:30:40>> I believe. So, yes.
1:30:41>> Okay. Um, do you say anything else? Do
1:30:44you say something then like
1:30:46>> uh once again I say get out of the road.
1:30:50>> That was kind of almost on like repeat.
1:30:54I just was saying that a lot of the
1:30:56time. Get out of the road. Get out of
1:30:58here.
1:31:00Do do you at that point verbalize get
1:31:02out of here, I'm going to shoot you?
1:31:05>> At that point,
1:31:08>> I know I didn't say it.
1:31:10>> Okay. Well, how quickly before the next
1:31:12four shots were fired?
1:31:15>> Another,
1:31:19like I said, maybe 4 seconds.
1:31:22>> Okay. So, we'll just say 54 seconds. Um,
1:31:25and they were rapid like bang bang bang
1:31:29bang bang, that kind of thing.
1:31:32>> Um, I want to say it was a little bit
1:31:35faster than that. But yeah, they were
1:31:37>> so four rounds and like two seconds
1:31:40maybe like bang bang bang bang.
1:31:42>> Yeah, that sounds close to right.
1:31:45>> Yeah.
1:31:47>> Um,
1:31:49and then
1:31:52did his car move at all at that point?
1:31:54at the slightest little bit once you
1:31:56shot
1:31:56>> I can't remember. I know I was trying to
1:31:59accelerate fast.
1:32:02>> So the last four rounds are shot. You
1:32:05immediately jump in the car,
1:32:07>> right? Yeah. I sit down. Um
1:32:11honestly, I don't think I put my seat
1:32:13belt back on. I just
1:32:16>> move.
1:32:17>> You just But immediately got back in.
1:32:19Gun still in hand.
1:32:21>> Gun on the passenger seat. on the
1:32:23passenger seat and then drove around
1:32:25them.
1:32:26>> Kept the car in drive in case I have to
1:32:28move at any point.
1:32:30>> So based on what you said, we're right
1:32:33about
1:32:34>> a minute to a minute and 5 seconds. It
1:32:37sounds like from the moment he gets in
1:32:40front of you to the moment you're
1:32:40driving around him finally about a
1:32:42minute to a minute and five seconds is
1:32:44what it sounds like. That would that be
1:32:47fair?
1:32:48>> I I I believe so.
1:32:52Um,
1:32:54okay.
1:32:57>> Um,
1:32:59how many rounds are in the magazine in
1:33:01the gun?
1:33:03>> Um,
1:33:05I want to say it either holds five or
1:33:08six.
1:33:09>> Okay. Was it Did you have
1:33:13>> six rounds in?
1:33:14>> I like to keep one round less than full.
1:33:18>> Okay. um the spring. So there it was
1:33:22just a lot of unnecessary tension.
1:33:25>> Did you empty a magazine completely when
1:33:28you were shooting?
1:33:30>> I want to say I didn't.
1:33:33>> Were both mag You said two magazines.
1:33:35>> One was untouched.
1:33:37>> Was there any rounds in that one?
1:33:39>> Yes.
1:33:40>> Okay.
1:33:41So you had two magazines and how much
1:33:43how many rounds were in each magazine?
1:33:46>> There's one in the gun and there's one
1:33:47outside of the gun. Correct.
1:33:49>> Okay.
1:33:50>> Um,
1:33:52one holds five or six, one holds six or
1:33:55seven.
1:33:56>> Which one was in the gun?
1:33:57>> The one I want to say that holds
1:34:01five or six.
1:34:02>> Okay.
1:34:03>> Yeah.
1:34:07But both of them did have bullets in
1:34:08them.
1:34:09>> Yes, sir.
1:34:09>> Okay. Okay.
1:34:13>> Um, back to the phone thing real quick.
1:34:16Did you do anything else on your phone
1:34:19after the shooting besides call your
1:34:21dad, call your girlfriend, and text? Did
1:34:24you look up anything?
1:34:25>> Um, I did go um I texted my father my
1:34:30location real quick.
1:34:31>> Okay. Did you do anything else? Music?
1:34:36>> Music was playing. I remember lowering
1:34:39the radio immediately. Um,
1:34:42>> on the phone though.
1:34:43>> On the phone? No.
1:34:44>> No. Just those things. Okay. Did you
1:34:47take any pictures, video?
1:34:49>> No.
1:34:50>> Nothing like that. Okay.
1:34:53>> Did you Google anything? No. Okay.
1:34:59>> Um
1:35:01I've got to I got to backtrack. I just
1:35:02thought of something.
1:35:04So, you guys are talking to each other,
1:35:06right?
1:35:07>> Right.
1:35:08>> Do you think he saw the light turn green
1:35:11initially?
1:35:12>> No.
1:35:13>> No. That that's why I was saying I I
1:35:15don't think he did um
1:35:17>> because he's focused on you
1:35:18>> on me. Correct.
1:35:19>> So he doesn't even know the light is
1:35:21green because you guys are talking or
1:35:23whatever you want to call it.
1:35:26>> Is that accurate?
1:35:27>> Um I believe so. Yeah. And then from
1:35:30there um that's when I start stressing
1:35:34to get out of the road.
1:35:36>> Mhm.
1:35:36>> Cuz that's still looking at you
1:35:40>> primarily. Yes.
1:35:41>> Right. So, he's not looking at the
1:35:43light. He's looking at you because he's
1:35:45more concerned about whatever talking to
1:35:48you or engaging in a verbal argument. Is
1:35:51that accurate?
1:35:52>> Right.
1:35:52>> Okay. So, now you start telling him,
1:35:54>> "Go get out of the road. Get out of
1:35:56here. Get out of the road."
1:35:58>> Okay. Now, listen. When I'm pissed, even
1:36:01in my job, right, and I've been in
1:36:03serious encounters, I consider myself a
1:36:06pretty calm guy. That's all you're
1:36:08saying to him? Because I'd be like,
1:36:09"Look, mother, you need to get out of
1:36:12the road." kind of thing because I talk
1:36:13like that,
1:36:14>> right? Um,
1:36:14>> you know what I mean?
1:36:17>> You could be honest. We need to know
1:36:18exactly what's being said there. There's
1:36:20no
1:36:21>> nothing wrong with cursing at somebody
1:36:24at this point,
1:36:25>> right? Yeah. Um, honestly, I I have like
1:36:28a potty mouth, if you will. I just don't
1:36:31think there were too many curse words
1:36:32exchanged.
1:36:33>> Yeah. And it doesn't matter is what I'm
1:36:34saying, you know,
1:36:36>> because I know how I act when I'm in
1:36:38high stress situations and it comes out.
1:36:41That's why we're asking like what
1:36:42exactly was said.
1:36:43>> Yeah.
1:36:44>> The sailor's mouth, you know, that's
1:36:45what they call it.
1:36:46>> Right. That's what I'm saying. I I I am
1:36:48oneas. Um but I don't remember either of
1:36:54us
1:36:55really.
1:36:55>> Okay. But you do remember him saying,
1:36:58"Shoot me."
1:36:59>> Yes. Multiple times.
1:37:02Huh? But you don't remember anything
1:37:04else he's saying?
1:37:11>> It was a lot happening now.
1:37:13>> Okay. Did he ever threaten you like
1:37:15verbally?
1:37:16>> Um
1:37:19I don't know.
1:37:22>> But you specifically remember, "Shoot
1:37:23me, shoot me, shoot me, shoot me, shoot
1:37:25me." But
1:37:29nothing else he was saying.
1:37:33Um, correct. Yeah, I can't remember too
1:37:36much anything else you were saying.
1:37:42>> Do you think
1:37:44if you didn't honk your horn and flash
1:37:47your lights, he would have just driven
1:37:49off?
1:37:51>> Um, I think so.
1:37:54>> Okay. I was just curious. You never know
1:37:57how these things go.
1:38:01Do you think you escalated the
1:38:02situation?
1:38:04You could be honest.
1:38:05>> Um saw that. No,
1:38:07>> I wasn't escalating. I think I was
1:38:09letting him uh I was trying to make him
1:38:12aware of what was happening.
1:38:14>> Right.
1:38:15>> Um
1:38:16then I think
1:38:17>> Do you think he meant to cut you off?
1:38:20>> Um me in particular, no. Did he mean to
1:38:23make that move? I believe so.
1:38:26>> Okay. Like I knew he wanted to get in
1:38:29front of my car. He doesn't know who I
1:38:31am.
1:38:31>> Right. Okay.
1:38:36>> Going back to him getting in front of
1:38:37your car, you really don't know where
1:38:39exactly he came from.
1:38:42>> Um I want to say
1:38:46two lane uh the far right. I say but I
1:38:49say that because you don't know if he
1:38:50didn't come out of that parking lot
1:38:52that's right there or if he did
1:38:54literally for whatever crazy reason go
1:38:56from the far right lane the number three
1:38:58lane all the way over to the number one
1:38:59lane. You don't really know exactly
1:39:02where he would have come from.
1:39:05>> Well, I know it wasn't the parking lot
1:39:07because I've seen when I went to go
1:39:09press my brakes, I kind of seen the
1:39:11headlights and my uh mirrors working
1:39:14their way around the road.
1:39:15>> Okay. Did it come up like really fast?
1:39:18Yeah.
1:39:19>> I mean,
1:39:22if I'm going 2025, he's probably going
1:39:243540.
1:39:26>> Okay.
1:39:26>> I mean, fast for where we were at the
1:39:28light, but not necessarily speeding at
1:39:32that point.
1:39:35>> You ever have any traffic tickets
1:39:36yourself? Sill question, but it's
1:39:39>> worth asking.
1:39:41>> I
1:39:43might have.
1:39:46I haven't paid any traffic tickets. I
1:39:48don't think
1:39:48>> I'm just asking. I mean, I look it all
1:39:50up anyway. This doesn't matter. I mean,
1:39:52I know I've had a couple of my years.
1:39:54>> Um,
1:39:55>> when I was in the military,
1:39:57>> actually, I got my car after I got out,
1:39:59so I think I avoided myself a good
1:40:01amount of trouble.
1:40:04>> I was already sober by that point. But,
1:40:07um,
1:40:08>> sober.
1:40:09>> Yeah. I I used to have a problem with
1:40:11drinking. Um
1:40:14early 2018 mostly I got scared cuz I was
1:40:18going to have a surgery for my shoulder
1:40:20and I was like, "Okay, let me chill out
1:40:23with, you know, dipping all the stuff
1:40:26that I was doing."
1:40:27>> Was the military giving you pills and
1:40:28stuff too for the pain?
1:40:30>> Um
1:40:32mostly ibuprofen. Um
1:40:33>> 800s.
1:40:34>> AS
1:40:36pills. Um, I don't know what the color
1:40:38they were when you they were orange when
1:40:40I was in
1:40:42>> I'm not sure. I know that the the A
1:40:44androids ibuprofen were white. Um, the
1:40:47other ones that they would give, they
1:40:50would normally give like a Tylenol to go
1:40:53with it or
1:40:54>> you um, so you had a an alcohol
1:40:58problem. Is that safe to say when you
1:41:00were in the military in 2018?
1:41:02>> Um, pretty much from
1:41:082018 to the beginning,
1:41:11say January of 2019 is when I quit
1:41:16drinking. And then after a year, um, I
1:41:20allow myself to have like wine here and
1:41:22there and stuff, but must pretty much
1:41:25stay away from hard liquor.
1:41:27>> Okay. Do you are you using any
1:41:28medication illegal or otherwise? Um,
1:41:31>> legal for anything like
1:41:34>> So, I have
1:41:36allergy medication. I have
1:41:39>> I'm talking about like, do you have a
1:41:40medical marijuana card?
1:41:41>> Yes.
1:41:42>> Okay. Do you smoke marijuana
1:41:45on a prescription level? Daily,
1:41:47routinely, every morning, every evening?
1:41:49I mean,
1:41:49>> on a prescription level, um, more like
1:41:56night times, uh, to sleep.
1:41:58>> Okay. Um, what about personal use
1:42:01outside of what the prescription is?
1:42:03>> Um, I try not to. I honestly get a lot
1:42:06of like ointments and topicals
1:42:09>> for joint pain and such. Um,
1:42:11>> does it work?
1:42:13>> Yeah, surprisingly. Um, depending
1:42:17great for like your back and stuff, um,
1:42:20your hips, but when it comes to like
1:42:22knees and ankles, it's hit or miss. It's
1:42:26>> pretty much the same as Icy or Tiger
1:42:28>> Wong. Okay. Um any other drugs
1:42:32illegalized?
1:42:33>> No.
1:42:34>> Cocaine, heroin, molly, fentanyl, any
1:42:36that kind of crazy.
1:42:38>> Um when's the last time you used
1:42:40marijuana?
1:42:41>> The last time I used marijuana was two
1:42:43nights ago.
1:42:44>> Okay.
1:42:45>> When's the last time you drank alcohol?
1:42:47>> The last time I drank alcohol was
1:42:55little minute. Um,
1:42:56>> it's been more than a day or two.
1:42:58>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:42:59>> So, it's safe to say that you
1:43:01>> Yes, sir.
1:43:02>> Okay. So, you're not impaired by
1:43:04alcohol, drugs, um, prescription
1:43:06otherwise, that kind of stuff. You have
1:43:07a safe.
1:43:09>> I mean, nicotine. That's it.
1:43:12>> Dip or smoke?
1:43:13>> Um, at this point, I'm just vaping. I
1:43:16quit the other two.
1:43:19>> Two questions real quick. Did you see
1:43:21anyone else in his car?
1:43:23>> No.
1:43:25>> Do you think there was anyone else in
1:43:26his car?
1:43:27>> I I was almost certain there wasn't
1:43:30anybody else in the car.
1:43:31>> Okay. Are you supposed to carry a
1:43:33firearm while you have a medical
1:43:35marijuana card?
1:43:40>> I
1:43:43know that you're not allowed to purchase
1:43:44one while you have the medical marijuana
1:43:47card. I know that much for sure.
1:43:50But this was from a previous purchase.
1:43:52Um I know while under the influence you
1:43:55can't possess the firearm can't drive
1:43:58kind of thing. Um I'm not sure as far as
1:44:02well
1:44:04just in general if you're allowed to.
1:44:08>> And your medical marijuana car is still
1:44:09good up to date.
1:44:10>> Yes, sir.
1:44:12>> And you got from the dispensary how long
1:44:14ago?
1:44:15>> Um
1:44:16>> cuz we could look that up. Did you get
1:44:17it from the street or the dispenser?
1:44:19>> So, I got it from a doctor.
1:44:20>> So, an actual doctor. Okay.
1:44:21>> Yes, sir.
1:44:23>> Okay.
1:44:24>> Um, and it was initially prescribed
1:44:33I want to say mid uh
1:44:39probably almost two years ago.
1:44:41>> All right. 2021.
1:44:43>> Yes, sir.
1:44:45The doctor went over all the paperwork
1:44:48with regards to that.
1:44:49>> Yes.
1:44:50>> You signed whatever you had to sign.
1:44:52>> Yes, sir.
1:44:55>> You remember the doctor who prescribed
1:44:56it?
1:44:58>> No, it's in my email. And if I were to
1:45:02log in to my uh account,
1:45:04>> I think it's on the cards, too.
1:45:06>> Okay.
1:45:06>> Mhm.
1:45:09>> Okay. Any questions?
1:45:11>> I do not.
1:45:11>> All right. We're going to step out for a
1:45:12few minutes. Um just to type and um like
1:45:16I have your wallet and stuff like that
1:45:17and oh um while we're talking
1:45:21be honest with you I am taking your
1:45:22phone for right now. I have to.
1:45:24>> Yeah, absolutely.
1:45:25>> Um do you mind you don't have to give it
1:45:28to me, but do you mind giving me the
1:45:30passcode? It makes it a little bit
1:45:31easier to get into it with the search
1:45:33warrant and search it again. You don't
1:45:36have to, but I'm just asking if you
1:45:37don't mind.
1:45:38>> I've got nothing to hide. Um
1:45:42uh what's it called? 072517.
1:45:50>> 072517. Was that a date of some sign?
1:45:53>> Yeah, that's when I uh sworn that was my
1:45:56first day of ASIC or something like
1:45:57that.
1:45:58>> Okay. July 25th, 2017.
1:46:01>> All right. All right. Give us a few
1:46:03minutes and then we will be back and uh
1:46:06let you know what's going on. Okay.
1:46:08>> Yes, sir. Um,
1:46:10>> yeah, ask. If you got a question, ask,
1:46:12man. I I'll answer whatever I can.
1:46:14>> I can
1:46:16I'm
1:46:19>> I actually
1:46:22Is is the guy okay?
1:46:24Is
1:46:25>> he is not He is dead.
1:46:28That's the truth.
1:46:32>> Okay.
1:46:33>> Yes, sir.
1:46:34>> Um, give us a quick second though. Do
1:46:36you want some more water? uh snack or
1:46:39something.
1:46:41Water and tissue maybe
1:46:48question.
1:46:53Um you had mentioned your your military
1:46:55time um and the Afghans being
1:46:59undisiplined with their weapons like
1:47:00they are um and
1:47:05on purpose or accidentally pointing guns
1:47:07at you with their fingers on the trigger
1:47:10and you just came back with how you
1:47:15made them move their guns or whatever.
1:47:24Can I have a minute, please?
1:47:26>> We'll sit here and listen. Yeah, take
1:47:29your time.
1:47:48Um
1:47:50so in the example I had used
1:47:53um you see
1:47:55this is the fire um that was
1:47:59accidentally been pointed at me. Um,
1:48:03I would normally try to initiate some
1:48:06sort of conversation, show my hands, try
1:48:09to talk,
1:48:11kind of like let him like, hey, I'm not
1:48:14a threat, but also like are you a
1:48:16threat?
1:48:18Um,
1:48:20and so just like be talking and I would
1:48:23either, you know, kind of move it and,
1:48:26you know, just start some conversation
1:48:28or even like say it to you and I
1:48:32position myself beside them to kind of
1:48:34get myself out of the the barrel,
1:48:38>> the line of fire,
1:48:39>> right? Um,
1:48:42and pretty much just like just kind of
1:48:45show them on my gun like how to put the
1:48:48fire the weapon on safe or something
1:48:50just so I can kind of get closer inspect
1:48:52theirs as well. Um,
1:48:56different things depending on the
1:48:58situation.
1:49:01>> Roughly when what year was that when
1:49:02that that kind of thing happened?
1:49:04>> 2018.
1:49:06>> 2018.
1:49:08So, what what has changed between 2018
1:49:10when you would um just kind of casually
1:49:14move their weapon off to the side
1:49:17so you could step away from it so you
1:49:18weren't having a gun pointed at you with
1:49:20somebody's finger on the trigger to
1:49:23now 5 years later where you're
1:49:27getting out of a car and pointing a gun
1:49:28at somebody and then ultimately shooting
1:49:31them within a minute. What What has
1:49:34changed in your life? What has changed
1:49:35to make that happen?
1:49:38fear. Um
1:49:41probably
1:49:43um
1:49:45I probably need more time to think on
1:49:48it, but
1:49:51um one of the things I was saying before
1:49:54with the SA Afghan army, um we knew that
1:49:59we were supposed to be allies even
1:50:01though there were some
1:50:04like green on blues and different
1:50:06things. um
1:50:09uh we were supposed to be allies. So
1:50:12when we were training together, it
1:50:15almost felt like we were training them
1:50:18whereas
1:50:21I don't know who's my ally
1:50:25today.
1:50:27So essentially just allies. One isn't
1:50:31you think is an ally and the other one
1:50:33you just don't know is an ally or not.
1:50:34>> Right? So that makes you go from
1:50:36casually moving the firearm out of the
1:50:38way to pulling a gun out, pointing at
1:50:40them, and shooting them.
1:50:43>> Um, yes and no. Uh, there's more in
1:50:47between.
1:50:50Um,
1:50:56>> I'm just trying to understand that's
1:50:58that's quite a bit different, you know.
1:51:02>> Yeah.
1:51:02>> Like day to night, you know, black to
1:51:04white. That's quite a bit different
1:51:06here. Just I'm on your side to bang bang
1:51:10bang bang bang.
1:51:13So I'm just trying to understand what
1:51:16what has transpired to make that change.
1:51:22So far you said allies
1:51:25also knowing what I know and knowing
1:51:27what I and not knowing what I don't. Um
1:51:31in Afghanistan I had protection
1:51:35and I had helmets, I had mask, I had I
1:51:38mean um plates
1:51:41also there I was able to see his full
1:51:44body. Um it's daytime. Um whenever we're
1:51:48doing most of our missions in
1:51:49Afghanistan,
1:51:51uh better visibility just, you know, you
1:51:54have a lot more people around us. It's
1:51:58It's a different environment
1:52:01entirely.
1:52:04>> Are you sorry now knowing the outcome of
1:52:07what happened today?
1:52:10>> Yeah. I mean, I I don't want I never
1:52:13wanted that to happen.
1:52:16I wanted to feel safe. I didn't want
1:52:20someone
1:52:22died because of it.
1:52:25Do you think he needed to die?
1:52:27>> I don't think anyone necessar
1:52:31I don't think that he necessarily needed
1:52:34to die. I think
1:52:41poorly aim shot.
1:52:50All right, good. um to sit tight for a
1:52:53little while longer and I'll let you
1:52:54know what's going on. Right.
1:52:59>> After the interrogation, investigators
1:53:01continued building the case using
1:53:03physical evidence, surveillance audio,
1:53:06witness statements, and the timeline of
1:53:09events from the morning of January 22nd,
1:53:112024.
1:53:13Prosecutors argued that Nicholas
1:53:14Kerasqueilo escalated a brief road rage
1:53:16encounter by retrieving a firearm and
1:53:18firing multiple shots into an occupied
1:53:20vehicle. striking David Alexander Sly
1:53:23and causing his death. On March 20th,
1:53:262025, a jury found Nicholas Kerkillo
1:53:29guilty of seconddegree murder and
1:53:31shooting into an occupied vehicle. On
1:53:33May 8th, 2025, the court sentenced him
1:53:36to 50 years in prison for seconddegree
1:53:38murder and 15 years for shooting into an
1:53:40occupied vehicle to be served
1:53:42concurrently for a total sentence of 50
1:53:44years. According to Florida Department
1:53:47of Corrections records, Caris Gillow is
1:53:49currently serving his sentence in state
1:53:51custody with a projected release date of
1:53:54December 2074.
1:53:56The confrontation lasted less than a
1:53:58minute, but investigators determined
1:54:00that in those seconds, a traffic dispute
1:54:02turned into a fatal shooting, one that
1:54:04ended David Alexander Sly's life and led
1:54:07to decades in prison for Nicholas
1:54:08Cariso.
1:54:10If you found this video informative,
1:54:12please consider leaving a like and
1:54:13subscribing to the channel as it really
1:54:15helps support our work and allows us to
1:54:17continue covering important stories like
1:54:19this one. Thank you.

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