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Derrick Hamilton: From Wrongful Conviction to Justice Advocate — Transcript

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0:02[Applause]
0:11[Music]
0:18[Applause]
0:23[Music]
0:27Right. This is what's up.
0:32[Music]
0:40[Music]
0:42Got to be.
0:43[Music]
0:59Open cell 13. Open your
1:03mouth. Spread your
1:06legs.
1:08Clear. Let's go.
1:10[Music]
1:29What up? What up? You already know it's
1:30your boy Pistol P. Welcome back to Dog
1:32of the Yard. Today we got Derek Hamilton
1:35in the building from the family and
1:37friends were only convicted. He was let
1:39go on January
1:412015 by the King County District
1:44Attorney's office. Uh they exonerated
1:48him and ever since he been home, he's
1:50been doing great in his I mean brother's
1:53been working. I mean, I'm ready to get
1:55up with him, but today we got him. And
1:57it's a blessing to have this brother on
1:59my show, on his platform. And with that
2:01being said, let's get right to it, man.
2:03Derek, you already know, wrongly
2:05convicted. Dog in the
2:10yard. What up? What up? You already know
2:12it's your boy Pistol P. Welcome back to
2:14Dog in the Y'all. And today we got Derek
2:16in the building. What's up, Derek? Man,
2:18my brother. Thanks for having me, bro.
2:20Friends and families, by the way. Yes,
2:21family and friends, y'all. Um, it's a
2:23pleasure having you, my brother. I
2:24appreciate you, you know, taking the
2:25time to come out. You know, I know y
2:27busy working on y working on a lot of
2:29people's lives. Yes. You know what I'm
2:31saying? And, um, but before we get into
2:33all that, all the good stuff you've been
2:35doing and all the blessings you've been
2:37creating out here for a lot of people,
2:39um, a lot of brothers, um, tell me a
2:42little bit about yourself, your
2:43upbringing. I know you from Brooklyn.
2:45Yes. Best. Born and raised. Best. Best.
2:47Okay. Okay. That's where, uh, uh, uh,
2:50Pat's from. Shout out to Pat Poo. Yes.
2:52Yes. Shout it out. Yeah. So, but uh a
2:55little bit of your upbringing, your
2:56siblings, how how was you know, how was
2:58your upbringing and what led you to to
3:00to you know, to go to jail to get
3:02yourself caught up? Sure. So, as you
3:04said, I was born in Brooklyn. Um you
3:07know, I grew up in uh public school. I
3:09really originally was in Bushwick. Um
3:11and then my family was middle class. You
3:13know, I was going to public school and
3:15some poverty stricken matters happened
3:18when I was about 8 years old. Uh my
3:20parents moved from Bushwick to Beverson
3:23section of Brooklyn to a housing
3:24project, Lafayette Garden housing
3:26project. And once I got to the projects,
3:28it was totally different. Um if you had
3:30a basketball, if you had a pair of
3:31sneakers or jacket, you had to fight for
3:33that, right? Um and I had five brothers
3:35and sisters, um we would always get
3:37into, you know, family fights with
3:39different people in the projects, man.
3:40And and you know, even you know, at that
3:43time, either you being bullied or
3:45standing up for yourself. Um, and after
3:47a while with me, I was fighting and
3:49fighting and fighting, man. And once you
3:51beat the bully in so many ways, you
3:52become that bully, right? You take on
3:54that mentality. I was always a smart
3:55guy. Um, getting good grades in school,
3:58but I became a product of my
3:59environment, right? Right. Um, you know,
4:01protecting, uh, family members and
4:03friends in the neighborhood, man. And,
4:05and it got to the point where uh, one
4:08day I bought a gun. All right. Cuz I
4:10couldn't beat all of the older guys.
4:11They was tougher than me and bigger than
4:12me, man. Guys was fighting like crazy
4:14when I was coming up. Um and and when I
4:17first got my hand on the weapon, man,
4:18and and I fired it and see how afraid
4:20these people were, I was like, "Oh, I
4:22got their number now." Right? And and
4:24this false sense of power, right? This
4:26coward in me cuz I just should have
4:28fought, right? Once I got a weapon, I
4:30became um um abuser in a sense, man.
4:33Like, all right, you guys think y'all
4:35tough now. I can level the playing field
4:36in my mind, you know, and I was young
4:38and I didn't understand the difference
4:40between reputation and character, right?
4:42M so you you going on this rep, you want
4:44this rep. And I just got lost in it,
4:46man. I'm running around with cruel guys
4:48in Brooklyn. We robbing people. Um we
4:50doing crimes. We starting Italians that
4:52got number spots and Cubans that got
4:54number spots because this is our
4:56neighborhood. Right. In the process of
4:58doing all of this, um I got on the
5:00police officer's radar, right? They
5:02started saying this young kids running
5:03around with a gun. How old you was? I
5:05was like 17, 16 at that time. Um, and
5:08they start stopping me, searching me,
5:10and, you know, harassing me because
5:12they've had I'm shooting a gun out here
5:13in these streets. Um, and one day around
5:171983, I have been 17 years old, hanging
5:19out with some older guys. Um, a robbery
5:22happened. Um, a bread truck driver gets
5:24shot and killed in my neighborhood. Um,
5:27the police officers is investigating.
5:29It's a white male that got killed and
5:30they taking this serious. Um, I'm in a
5:33rent car. They pull me over one day. Uh,
5:35I fake like it ain't me, Sam. My
5:37brother, whatever, let me go. Um, long
5:39story short, the individuals that
5:41actually committed the murder got
5:43stopped by the cops and told them that
5:44they loaned me their car to do the
5:48shooting. And of course, the police
5:49believed it because I was a young
5:50knucklehead running around, had this
5:52reputation as being a shooter, it up a
5:54couple times, fact. So, they arrested
5:56me. Um, and they charged me with the
5:58murder of an individual by the name of
6:00James Wolf. And I'm 17 years old. And
6:03I'm like, what the [ __ ] You know, like,
6:06how did this happen? You know, I never
6:07expected this to be too far, right?
6:09Definitely went too far. And I know I
6:11didn't kill a guy, right? So, I knew I
6:13didn't kill him, right? And I'm like,
6:15all right, well, the truth going to come
6:16out. You know, the truth is going to
6:17come out. Ain't no way in the world I'm
6:18going to get back. I didn't do it. So,
6:21and in the course of being arrested for
6:22that, I also had about three or four
6:24other cases that I did do. Um, uh,
6:27robbery that I might two or three
6:28robberies that I had that I did do. Um,
6:30so I'm on Rikers Island with these four
6:32or five cases. Oh, so so you went to you
6:34was already on the island. They locked
6:36me up uh for the murder. And then I
6:38start getting other cases that people
6:39would say, "Oh, this guy robbed me."
6:41Yeah. Cases that I did, you know, and
6:42and rightfully so. So, you know, I'm 17
6:45years old, she's 74, young, wild,
6:47running around. How was that going over
6:49the bridge for the first time? It was It
6:51was like unbelievable, man. You know,
6:53cuz you hear stories at that time. I'm
6:56scared to death. This is my first time
6:57coming through. Yeah. Um, but you know,
6:59once I got in and I came through
7:01previously on other cases got bailed
7:04out. Um, but now I see what it's really
7:07like. You know, police correction
7:08officers whooping your ass when you get
7:10in the beef with another prisoner. They
7:11beating you. Um, you know, beating the
7:14hell out you. Um, and there's nobody to
7:16run to. Like there's no family. There's
7:18no, you got to handle this. You got to
7:20become a man real fast. Um, and then,
7:24um, I started going to Lolaburg. You
7:26know, speaking of my moms and my pops,
7:27they're like, "Listen, man. You got
7:29yourself in this [ __ ] You better figure
7:31it out. You know, you better start going
7:33to the law library, man. You better you
7:34better do something. Told you, man, that
7:37you know, you was going the wrong way."
7:39Um, so I wound up going to trial. Um,
7:42and the murder case was the first trial
7:44that I ever had. Uh, during the course
7:46of the trial, uh, a witness came in and
7:49called my lawyer out in the hallway, uh,
7:51and her name was Patricia Lee. I
7:52remember to the day and said, "Listen,
7:55I'm not going to testify. Um, the cops
7:57made me identify your client and said
8:00that he committed this crime and I'm not
8:02coming in the lie. I'm not going to do
8:04that." U, my lawyer came in the
8:05courtroom and put that on the record and
8:07told the judge some person came in the
8:08hallway and said that they made her go
8:11to the grand jury in line. My client,
8:14they brought the witness in. She took
8:15the stand and said exactly that, that
8:17police officers took her to the
8:18precinct, told her, "You going to say
8:20this or threaten her." She said it. She
8:22went to grand jury and said it. Say she
8:23refused to testify. You You would
8:25thought that was it right there. I knew
8:26it was it. Like the judge told the
8:28prosecutor, he said, "Listen, I'm giving
8:30y'all to tomorrow to come with something
8:33cuz if not, I'm dismissing this murder
8:35case." Right. We come back the next day.
8:38Judge changed his mind. He says he
8:40thought about this all night and it
8:42troubled him and he felt that me or
8:44somebody acting for me had got to the
8:47witness and made her refuse to testify
8:49at the trial. Now, mind you, I'm 17
8:51years old. I don't got no ability to get
8:54to know witness. I'm a kid, right? I
8:56don't even know if she exists, right? I
8:58don't even know what the evidence is or
9:00the discovery is the next day. That's
9:01correct. The next day, uh, so he ruled
9:03that he was going to allow her grand
9:05jury testimony to be admitted at my
9:08trial as evidence-in-chief and that I
9:10had forfeited my right to confront her.
9:13So, we can't even call her and ask her
9:14any questions of what she told us. He
9:16says, "No." So, I was convicted. Um, and
9:19I was sentenced to 25 years of life at
9:2118 years old. Um, and this is my first
9:24brush with the criminal justice system.
9:26Um, and I began studying law every
9:28single day, man. I was in the law
9:30library every single day because a
9:32lawyer I had, uh, big up to Candace
9:34Kurts, had pulled me to the side and
9:36said, "Young man, get your head out your
9:37ass. I want you to read these cases and
9:39see what they're really doing to you.
9:40They're railroading your hand. I want
9:42you to understand what's happening." So,
9:43she was a blessing to me. Um, and I just
9:45started going to the law library every
9:47single day, studying law, learning law,
9:49learning law. Um, and unfortunately for
9:51me, in six years, I got a reversal um,
9:54by the appellet division second
9:56department who overturned that
9:57conviction, found that the judge was
9:59wrong, that there was no evidence
10:01whatsoever to establish that me or
10:02anybody acting for me, had threatened
10:04this witness, and he was wrong in
10:06admitting that evidence against me and
10:08denying me the right to confront the
10:09witness. Uh, so in six and a half years,
10:13uh, I went up with 32 and a half of
10:14life. I got out in six and a half years.
10:16Um, and I got back, man. I got back on
10:18the street in my neighborhood and I felt
10:20like that's a blessing, man. Everything
10:22is good. Six and a half years. I had a
10:2432 and a half year sentence, man. Um, I
10:27got a reversal when I came home. Um, and
10:29you put that work in. You got yourself
10:31home. I worked hard. I worked really
10:33hard. Yeah, you work hard, you know. So,
10:34when I got out, things have changed, you
10:36know. It was a crack era now. Um when I
10:39left it wasn't a crackout. Yeah. What
10:41what year was that? I left in ' 83. 823
10:4483 and I came home in '89. Um it was at
10:47the heights of of all kind of stuff
10:49going on, man. And I was shocked. It was
10:51like a you know, you see older parents,
10:54man. People that you respected now.
10:56Yeah. Um cracked out of their mind, man.
10:58And it was just a culture shock for me.
11:00Um and I had moved to New Haven,
11:03Connecticut at the time. Um, and I was
11:05down there, you know, doing a little
11:06hustling like everybody else. And um,
11:10one day I got a phone call that said
11:13that detectives had went to my
11:15girlfriend house in Brooklyn looking for
11:17me. And I'm like, looking for me? It was
11:19like, yeah. They said, "You wanted for a
11:20murder?" I'm like, "A murder?" So I
11:23called my lawyer that I previously had.
11:25And he said, "Look, if they arrest you,
11:28then call me." He said, "If they don't
11:29arrest you, just keep doing what you
11:31doing." So I continue with my work. I
11:33was opening a unisex salon at that time
11:35in New Haven. One day cops walked in.
11:39They arrested me for murder in New
11:41Haven. In New Haven, extradited me back
11:43to New York and I found out that it was
11:45regarding that Daniel Cash, which I had
11:47already heard what they were looking for
11:49me for. Um, and I'm like, this can't be
11:51true. Cuz everybody in the neighborhood
11:52knew who killed the guy. Um, it was well
11:55rumored who killed the guy. Um, and I
11:57was just again shocked like, damn. Like
12:01now the first time I admit that I was
12:04doing all kind of crazy stuff and I can
12:05understand. Yeah. Yeah. You wasn't
12:06angel. Right. Right. Right. The second
12:08time I wasn't even in Brooklyn. I was in
12:10New Haven at this point in time and I'm
12:11like, you know how the hell this
12:13happened. Right. So I was arrested. Um I
12:16was brought to King's County again,
12:18Brooklyn. Um and I stayed in there eight
12:20months for another trial. Um and I was
12:24convicted. Um and what was your state of
12:27mind though? Like that [ __ ] must have
12:29been complicated, difficult. What was
12:31going through your mind coming home? You
12:33just got yourself out of jail after 6
12:35years and a half from from a from a body
12:37that you didn't come in. And now here
12:39you go again. You know, and the bad part
12:43was your mind like [ __ ] up, man. The
12:45rest was mindboggling, right? When they
12:47came and and put the cuffs on me and I'm
12:48in that New Haven and I'm like, it was
12:51March again. It was March of of 1992.
12:54The first one was March of 1983. March
12:57is not the month. March wasn't my month,
12:58right? I'm like, "What the hell?" Right?
13:00So, you know, and and I'm in there and
13:03I'm like, "Wow, man." And I believed in
13:05the system because I got a reversal,
13:08right? I actually did six and a half
13:10years and got out. So, I'm saying this
13:11time it's definitely going to establish
13:13that I didn't commit this murder. It's
13:14going to be clear I'm going to get out
13:15like this. Yeah. It's going to be super
13:18clear. That didn't happen. Um 8 months
13:22to a year, which otherwise, I begin
13:24trial. Um, and a witness comes in and
13:27says that person that I know um, comes
13:30in and says that I killed her boyfriend.
13:32She said, "I came to the door and ask
13:34her where he was." She said, "Right
13:36here." That I pulled out a gun and
13:37started shooting and shooting and
13:38shooting and murdered him. Um, right
13:41before our eyes. And I'm sitting here
13:44like, I know this person like, and I see
13:47how she came in dressed. Something
13:50happened. Like, what the hell happened?
13:51You know, in my mind, like, what made
13:53this person come in and just lie? like
13:55and I'm speaking to her prior to this
13:56and all that. She like, "Yo, they tried
13:57to get me go to the grand jury. They got
13:58me lied. I'm knowing all the facts
14:00already, but I'm like, she comes in to
14:03say
14:03this." So, the jury believes her that
14:07she seen me kill her boyfriend. They
14:08bring a detective in by the name of
14:10Louisis Scarcella. And this detective
14:12says he known me my entire life, that I
14:15was a killer, that I killed people all
14:17my life. He got the jury believing I'm
14:19this dangerous person. And they find me
14:21guilty after three days of deliberating.
14:22They draw a crazy picture. threw a very
14:24crazy picture. Um, so after my
14:27conviction, I'm going through the
14:29discovery. I'm going through the
14:30paperwork now. This is in 1992. 92. I'm
14:33going through the paperwork that they
14:34gave my lawyer during the trial. And I
14:37find a statement. Uh, it has this
14:39witness name in parenthesis, Drew Smith.
14:42And the statement says that she told the
14:45police immediately when they came to the
14:46scene that she was around a corner at a
14:50store, and when she came back, she saw
14:52her boyfriend dead. So the first time
14:54I'm saying, "Is this her?" Um, and I
14:58send an investigator out and they come
15:01back and see, "Yo, this is her." They go
15:03down south and they see, and she says,
15:04"Yes, I told the cops I never saw this
15:07crime." She says, "And I've been saying
15:08this forever, but they locked me up,
15:10beat me up, told me if I didn't come in
15:13and say this guy committed the murder, I
15:14was going to jail myself. I was on
15:16parole. Uh, the guy that died was a
15:19known felon, and they said I was going
15:21to jail for messing with him. has
15:22threatened to take her kids away and all
15:24the rest of that. Um, so I made a
15:26motion, a prosay motion before the judge
15:28before I was sentenced and I said,
15:30"Listen, I got a document here and this
15:32detective never testified at my trial.
15:33He was the arresting officer." Um, had
15:35the jury knew that this witness first
15:37told the cops she didn't see nothing.
15:39The results of the proceeding within a
15:40different This is the only witness that
15:42accused me. Now, we know that she wasn't
15:43even present when the murder happened.
15:45So, the judge screams on the prosecutor
15:47and says, "I want to know what the truth
15:48is. Did she see the murder or she didn't
15:50see the murder?" The prosecutor said,
15:52"Well, she made the statement saying she
15:54didn't see the murder." Our position is
15:56that she's seen it. Well, the judge
15:57said, "Well, I want to call her back in
15:59and I want to question her about the
16:01statement." We got a statement from an
16:02investigator saying she recaned. She
16:04said, "None of these things is true."
16:06Said, "I want to know what's the truth.
16:07Did she see it or she didn't see it?"
16:09The prosecutor like, "Well, I don't want
16:10to call her back." He says, "Well, if
16:12you don't call her back, I'm giving them
16:13a new trial. Let the jury hear this new
16:16evidence that he got. What do you think
16:17they would do if they hear it?" They
16:19call her back and she comes in and
16:21identify the detective Louisis Garcella
16:24as the person who threatened her who
16:25told her she was going to jail that said
16:28he made me do this. He said it's like a
16:30play. He told me everything to say and
16:32said Juel if you don't say this you're
16:34going to jail. The problem with telling
16:36a lie when you talk about murder is that
16:39the ballistics evidence and the science
16:41got to match, right? So her story that
16:43she saw me come to the door and shoot
16:45her boyfriend right before eyes didn't
16:47match because he wasn't shot there. He
16:49was shot outside in the street with two
16:51different guns, not one. So ballistics
16:54showed that two different guns shot this
16:57guy. And the first 911 call to the
16:59precinct said three male blacks fleing
17:01the red car was a murderous. She said we
17:03came and left on foot. Um so our story
17:06just didn't pan out. Um, despite all of
17:08this evidence that we had establishing
17:10that I didn't commit the crime, a judge
17:12didn't sentence me for a whole year. He
17:14kept saying, "I can't give this guy 15
17:16years or 25 years. If we now know this
17:19witness didn't see the crime," he said,
17:21"I'm just speaking out loud. We give him
17:22a new trial." He don't walk out. One
17:25day, he came in and just changed his
17:26mind. He said that he think that I
17:31manipulated this evidence that I'm a I
17:33have a string and I'm I'm a master
17:35puppeteer. He said, "That's pulling the
17:37strings and everybody is is doing what I
17:39want them to do." The problem with that
17:41was that I used a detective, his memo
17:43book. This was his evidence, right? He
17:46came in and said this. Um, so, um, I
17:50went upstate. I was sentenced to 25
17:52years of life in this case. Um, and
17:54again, I blew trial and again, I was
17:57back in the law library, man. Fouling
18:00every motion. That must have been
18:01mental, man. A mental. You lucky you
18:04still stay You stay insane. You stayed
18:05good. [ __ ] That must have been
18:08exhausted mentally. That was the most,
18:11you know, riding taking that bus back
18:13upstate, man. You know, was the most it
18:16was the most painful riot experience in
18:19the world, man. Because now, you know,
18:21you're like, "What the [ __ ] I'm back to
18:24this [ __ ] you know." And um, you know,
18:27I got back up at the first place sent me
18:29back to Clinton Correctional Facility.
18:31Um, and it was like painful, man. like
18:33you like and people like, "Oh, what's
18:36up, bro?" You like, "Man, man." You
18:38know, so I immediately got back in the
18:39law library. Um start studying again and
18:42studying again and studying again and I
18:45became even better uh than I originally
18:47was in law. I start helping other people
18:49get out. Um Julio Acad was one of the
18:52guys I helped get out. He's where uh 50
18:54Cent got his name from um because he
18:58Julio had killed the real 50 Cent from
19:00Brooklyn. He was convicted of that
19:02murder. I got him reversal. Um, so I was
19:04starting to make a name for myself, man.
19:06Getting people out, uh, prison and
19:08winning cases. But ultimately, every
19:11motion I filed, even though I got
19:12hearings, I was denied. Uh, the
19:14prosecutor would go to the judge and
19:16say, "He's a bad guy, that you better
19:18let this guy out, he's a criminal, you
19:20know, and they would they would
19:22prejudice the way the judges would think
19:24about me." Um, just just based on that,
19:26they deny your [ __ ] Based on that,
19:28judges believe that public safety,
19:30right? If a judge think that you a bad
19:32guy, forget about it. Cuz no judge want
19:34to sign his name on something for you
19:35and you go out and kill somebody or you
19:37harm somebody. That's the end of their
19:38career, right? Um and they elected the
19:40elected officials in New York. So judges
19:43were were afraid um to let me out
19:45because the hype um that the prosecutor
19:48just put my name. Um and ultimately
19:50every motion that I filed, even though
19:52the judge would agree in principle, I
19:54can throw this case out. The evidence
19:56proves this. It's on the record. He
19:57would deny me. Uh in 2009
20:01uh after 21 years in prison or something
20:04like that, 19 years in prison, um I
20:06began going to the parole board because
20:08I had got a previous six-year credit
20:11from my previous bid. So even though I
20:12got sentenced to 25 life, they gave me
20:15six years credit from my previous bid
20:17under something called the Richardson
20:18law. So I learned that, I applied for
20:20it, they gave it to me. So I started
20:22going to the parole board in 19 years um
20:25in 2009. At that point, I had several
20:30evidentiary hammers. I had a pile of
20:32evidence that established that I was
20:33innocent. I knew who the real killers
20:35were. I knew everything. Um, and I start
20:38presenting this evidence to the parole
20:40board. And I said, "Look, I'm innocent,
20:42man. I got all the evidence to prove
20:43him." And I said, "In fact, the judge in
20:45my case said it over and over again. He
20:47can throw the case out that the case was
20:49weak." And I gave them tons of evidence
20:52and said, "I can't have a parole hearing
20:54that a guilty person has, right? I need
20:56one that gives the innocence person the
20:59chance to prove their case. And they
21:00kept saying, "No, we don't do that." Um,
21:02that's not the that's not what does,
21:04right? They says, "No." So, when I
21:06challenged them under 259 seat executive
21:08law and I filed the 1983 civil rights
21:11lawsuit against them and argued that if
21:13I were to go ahead with my parole
21:14hearing that I would be prejudic, there'
21:16be irreparable harm, right? That they're
21:19going to look at me as a guilty person.
21:21Um and the federal court judge at that
21:24time uh was told that look it's
21:27premature that he's putting the the
21:30carrot before the horse. He's coming in
21:32and saying what's going to happen at a
21:33hearing when he never had it. Let him
21:35have the hearing. If he get hit or they
21:38look at him that way then we come back
21:39and deal with it. So after two years of
21:41fighting I had the hearing went back and
21:44um the parole board hit me with two
21:47years. They said take two years. So in
21:49the interim of that, let me just tell
21:50you a little bit what was going on in
21:52prison. Um at during that period of time
21:56when uh around about 2009, I went to
21:58Auburn Correctional Facility uh from um
22:02Shianga Box. And when I got to Auburn
22:05box, I learned that a couple of friends
22:07that I knew over the years from Rikers
22:08Island and upstate was in Auburn law
22:11library. And there was a guy by the name
22:13of Fat Danny, Danny Rencon, who worked
22:16the law library at that time with Nelson
22:18Cruz and others. And they would I would
22:21send down for books from the shoe from
22:23special housing and they would send them
22:25back up to me, put a little note, you
22:26when you get out, I want you to come
22:27work at the library with us or whatever.
22:29So when I got out the box, I went down
22:31to to um population and that Danny got
22:34me a job in the law library and they had
22:36something called an actual innocence
22:38team. in um they had guys who were
22:41saying they was innocent that would meet
22:43in the law library and try to help each
22:44other out. So when I got out of the box,
22:46I began working there with them and I
22:49began sharing knowledge that I had
22:50obtained over the years uh about
22:53wrongful convictions about uh innocence
22:56and about how to get around what was
22:58called procedural bars in the
23:00postconviction realm. Let me explain
23:02what that mean a little bit. So when you
23:03file a postconviction motion, any time
23:05you convicted for a crime and your
23:07sentence, that's postconviction. It's
23:09after your conviction. The conviction
23:11consists of your sentence and your and
23:13your trial, right? That's your
23:15conviction. So you got to file
23:16postconviction motions. In the motion,
23:18there was things that said if you could
23:20have filed this motion earlier, we're
23:22going to deny it. If you didn't do this,
23:24if you didn't do that, we're going to
23:24deny it. So there's a lot of procedures
23:26to kick you out of the courtroom. So
23:27they was denying our motions on
23:29procedures. They was never reaching to
23:30the merits of our claim. So, like me,
23:32I've had evidence proving I was in New
23:34Haven, Connecticut. Alib, hotel
23:36receipts, police officers, everybody
23:38that say, "Well, I was at New Haven when
23:40this murder happened." Um, guys like
23:42Danny had voluminous evidence, man.
23:45Informant said he wasn't there when the
23:46quad murder happened. Right. So, there's
23:48a lot of evidence all of us had to prove
23:50our innocence. Um, Shabbaka Shakur was
23:52another guy that was there. um and he
23:54had alibi evidence and we would sit
23:56around the law library and say, "Damn,
23:58we got all this evidence and judges is
24:00just throwing our evidence in the
24:01garbage." We got to come together and
24:03figure out a way to let society know
24:06what's happening to us. So, we start
24:08putting our families together and we
24:10build an organization called Family
24:12Friends of the Romans Convicted and we
24:14start sending our family members down to
24:16city hall while in prison in Auburn.
24:17Okay. So we we contacted a guy by the
24:19name of Lonnie Surrey, a PR guy shout to
24:22Lani and he would organize our families
24:24and they had the first rally outside of
24:26city hall um to bring attention to it
24:28and it got a lot of press and my case
24:32was featured in the Daily News at that
24:35time and it says inmate would be free if
24:37the court just hear his witnesses. So I
24:40used that to go to the parole board the
24:42next prince with a nice parole package
24:45and they looked at all the evidence
24:48finally and said look man sad what
24:50happened to you. Um despite the fact
24:53that you was on parole when this crime
24:55happened, despite the fact that you did
24:5810 years in special housing unit, there
25:00is a lot of evidence here to establish
25:02that you're innocent. Um and they they
25:04said, "Look, we're going to give you a
25:06shot. we wish you well in getting out
25:08and proving your innocence, man. But if
25:10you come back, it's over. Um, and let me
25:13go. Um, and that was 2011.
25:16Blessed. And when I left, I promised
25:20Danny, I promised Shabbaka Shako,
25:22Richard Rosario, um, Wayman Aaron,
25:25Sherman Adams, all those guys that was a
25:28part of this unit that we had, this
25:30movement, Nelson Cruz, that when I get
25:32out, I'm going to do everything I can to
25:34get you guys out, bring attention to
25:36this wrongful convention thing. So, I
25:37joined, I ran with the organization,
25:40started going everywhere. I immediately
25:42uh joined a coalition to get rid of
25:45Charles Hines, who was the Brooklyn DA
25:47at that time. Um he was one of the most
25:50corrupt guys I know. And we was able to
25:53kick him out and get a guy by the name
25:55of Kenneth Thompson elected uh as a
25:58Brooklyn DA. Uh we used to be knocking
26:00on project doors, man, in the hood. And
26:02they were like, "Man, what the [ __ ] you
26:03mean vote for a DA?" But I ain't going
26:05for no DA was lock us up. And we had to
26:07teach them that DA did more than just
26:09lock people up, right? Uh, and we got
26:11him in and he kept his word and he put a
26:13unit together. He promised that if he
26:15get elected, he would put a conviction
26:17review unit together that goes back and
26:19look at all these wrongful convictions
26:22and and and see if they was actually
26:24systemically racist, if they were just
26:26railroading blacks and Hispanics in
26:27Brooklyn. So, when he got in uh four
26:30months later, we rallied against him
26:32because he was taking too long and he
26:34began looking at these convictions. Uh,
26:36and my detective Lewis Garcella at the
26:38time was one of the people who I had
26:41went to the New York Times and
26:42complained about. Uh, and I spoke to a
26:45reporter by the name of Francis Rollers
26:47there cuz she asked, she said, "Why
26:49would people be afraid of cops? Are you
26:50kidding me? They frame people every
26:52day." I said, "My detective frame
26:54somebody in two weeks. It's going to be
26:56in the news." I said, "I don't know the
26:58guy name because a lawyer had came to me
27:00and said, look, I was speaking to the DA
27:01about your case and I asked him why they
27:03wouldn't reverse it." He says, "But
27:05there's somebody I can't tell you the
27:06name yet." He told me, he said, "But in
27:07two weeks, that same detective that
27:09locked you up, they going to let
27:11somebody out that he framed." He said,
27:13"Who's your lawyer?" I told him my
27:14lawyer was. Two weeks later, it's in the
27:16New York Times. David Ranter was a guy
27:18name that they framed. And it was all
27:21over the news that the detective that
27:23framed me framed David Rant. So, the
27:26reporter comes back to me and said,
27:28"Hey, you told me you had evidence that
27:30this cop did it to a lot of other
27:32people. Do you got those evidence? you
27:33got I gave a list of people and all of
27:35the evidence and she got the Brooklyn
27:37DA's office at that time, Charles Hines,
27:40to look at 50 convictions, including
27:42mines. Um, luckily for us, he got kicked
27:45out. Uh, Ken came in, I told you, put
27:47this unit together. And Ken reversed 22
27:51convictions in two years. Wow. And said
27:53there was a systemic racist problem in
27:55Brooklyn. Um, and he was going to change
27:57the way that they operated. Um, and that
28:00began a a a wave in New York City where
28:03in every district attorney's office,
28:05they have these units now that go back
28:07and look at wrongful convictions. And to
28:09the date, there's hundreds of people.
28:11So, they have this now. They have it in
28:13everyone. Brooklyn, Bronze, Queens,
28:14Staten Island. That's great. Uh, and you
28:17know, they doing good work uh in some of
28:19them on these particular cases, but it
28:21was our hard work and and and grassroots
28:24effort that got the DA out, the new one
28:25in. Mhm. Um so since that point in time
28:30uh we began working on um educating the
28:33public about wrongful convictions. What
28:36causes them? How does it happen? Yes.
28:38Right. A lot of people just don't
28:39understand you mean cops got it wrong.
28:41How does this happen? Right. How does
28:43identification go wrong? Um and we began
28:46looking at how and what we can do to
28:51change false identifications. And we
28:53began working with the Innocence
28:54Project, Rebecca Brown, and others to
28:57change the law that dealt with
29:00um what they call identification
29:03procedures. So what happens now is that
29:05the cop who makes the arrest is not
29:07involved in identification procedures
29:09whatsoever. So he's not there to tell a
29:11witness, pick out number two, or suggest
29:13to them in some way who's the person
29:15that should be picked out the lineup. So
29:17now what they do is something called a
29:18double blind lineup. They put a cop that
29:21has nothing to do with it, that don't
29:22know anything about the case. He's just
29:24doing identification procedures. That's
29:25true. Um, and there's no more of this
29:27showing a photograph before the lineup,
29:30right? So now when you go to line up,
29:32you know that the person you going to
29:33pick out is the person you saw in the
29:34photograph. These are things the cops
29:36used to do over and over again. Suggest
29:38to the witness who to pick out. So we
29:41found ways to limit that all together.
29:43Stop it. And then we talk about false
29:45confessions. um where cops used to hold
29:49people in the precinct a day or two,
29:51question them, stress them out, and then
29:53get them to confess the things they
29:55didn't do after they told them all about
29:57the crime. So, you might come in and
29:59say, "Hey, man, I don't know about this
30:00crime. I didn't do it." And the cop
30:02would tell you all the narrative. Oh,
30:03you know, they got shot with a gun.
30:05Uhhuh. The codefendant said you did this
30:07or you did that. And they telling you
30:08everything about it. After two ladies
30:10said, "Look, you know, order to get out
30:12of here, you got to confess, man. You're
30:14not going anywhere. You're going to be
30:15here." And a lot of weak people or
30:17people that just psychologically
30:18impaired or just can't stand those
30:21torturous conditions. Yeah. They
30:24confess. They confess. Yeah. Um so now
30:26what we got going is we saying that from
30:28the moment that a person is in police
30:30custody, he should be on video, right?
30:33And now if the cops say that the guy
30:35confessed, we can see the circumstances
30:36which made him confess, right? Not just
30:39taking the video at the last minute
30:41after all the other things happened that
30:43nobody know about. So we we worked on
30:45that. Uh we also moved to change how
30:49junk science was used uh in cases,
30:52right? They would come with fingerprints
30:54and tell a jury that this is 100% my
30:58print or your print without doubt.
30:59There's no scientific evidence that
31:02could refute that, which is not true.
31:04Right? Because fingerprints has now been
31:06proven not to be that accurate as they
31:08once said. So now you got to tell them
31:10what the error rate could be. Right.
31:12Right. there can be an error of this or
31:13that. It's not 100%. Um, and we also
31:17worked on discovery bills, making sure
31:20that when a person is arrested that the
31:22discovery, the information that the
31:24police have is turned over to their
31:25lawyer immediately. In my case, had we
31:28had that document where she first told
31:30the cops she didn't see the crime at
31:32all, I wouldn't have been convicted.
31:34Right? They didn't turn it over to the
31:35EVA trial. When our resources was gone,
31:38we was in trial mode, not investigation
31:39mode anymore, and we couldn't find out
31:42that it was the same person. Um, so we
31:44worked on changing the discovery laws
31:46and we did it in the name of Khalif
31:48Browder, uh, who individual that spent
31:50three years in prison for a crime he
31:52didn't commit. Um, got out and wound up
31:54hanging himself, killing himself. Oh,
31:56yeah. Because he was in special housing
31:57unit and all that. It messed his mental.
31:59It messed his mental. Yeah. So we did it
32:01we did it in in his name and we called
32:03it the blindfall law to we made
32:05discovery be turned over now within a
32:07certain time frame if not the sanction
32:09is dismissing the case. Uh so we worked
32:12on a lot of different um campaigns to
32:15try to make the the level of the playing
32:17field and to stop some of the things
32:19that was identified in wrongfully
32:21convicting people and educate the public
32:23about it because you going to be on
32:24juries. So, you need to know that
32:26prosecutors are not all that honest. Um,
32:28and what to look for. Um, and another
32:31thing that that that you know we do and
32:33we've been doing was actually working on
32:35wrongfully conviction cases, getting
32:37people out of prison who was innocent.
32:39Um, and some of the cases that I worked
32:40on, one is Wayne Martin. He had life in
32:43prison uh and he got out about six years
32:46ago. But the most memorable case uh is a
32:49guy in Louisiana by the name of Vincent
32:51Simmons. Vincent was locked up for 44
32:54years. Uh, shout out to Justin Bonis, a
32:56lawyer that worked on the case. Um, and
32:59when Justin got the letter, he was like,
33:01"Listen, man, we got a case um of a guy
33:04that was accused of raping two white
33:06girls in Louisiana." And me being, you
33:09know, ex, you know, prisoner and saying
33:11rape, man, I I don't know if, you know,
33:13I want to work on that case, man. You
33:14know, and Justin is a lawyer that bought
33:15from South Jersey. We won a lot of cases
33:17together and like, listen, man, this guy
33:19didn't do it. take a look at it. So, we
33:22began looking at the evidence, we seen
33:24that one of the females still had a
33:26hyman intact, that she wasn't raped at
33:28all. Uh, and then we got into the fact
33:31that when the cops arrested him, when he
33:34wouldn't confess, they shot him in the
33:36stomach, and they put him in a lineup
33:38with shackles on. He was the only person
33:39in the lineup with shackles on. And we
33:41got deeper and deeper in the case, and
33:43we saw that's crazy that that that
33:45Vincent was innocent, and we realized
33:47that who the real rapists were. It was
33:50her own cousin that was raping the whole
33:51family and we found some some stuff from
33:53the sister on Facebook saying it's
33:55messed up. He got that black man in jail
33:57for something he didn't do. So, we start
33:59finding more and more layers of evidence
34:01to establish that Vincent was innocent.
34:03We went down to Louisiana and after
34:05two-year battle, we got the judge to
34:07agree that he was innocent and got him
34:09out after 44 years. The brother came out
34:1270ome years old. Um, you know, and it's
34:15cases like that, man. That is he still
34:17alive? He's still alive. you know, he's
34:19out in uh Houston, Texas now. Um, you
34:22know, but but you know, look, 44 years,
34:24man, in Angola, you know, and Angola,
34:26one of the worst prisons in the world,
34:28you know, and and look, we we continue
34:31to, you know, fight now to change prison
34:33reform. Uh, I don't know if you know
34:35about the Brooks murder by the
34:37correction officers in Mari Correctional
34:40Facility, Round of Brooks, man. So, that
34:42just happened uh November. Uh, it's been
34:45happening, man. It's been happening
34:47forever, you know. So when we heard
34:49about that, we immediately got on the
34:50ground um and went down to Third Avenue
34:54and and protested big against the
34:56governor um asking for these cops to be
34:58arrested. Um it took them 84 days to do
35:01it, but we was on their neck. Um we was
35:04in the courtroom when indictment was
35:05announced and broke about them getting
35:07bail and being let right out. Um and we
35:09working now um to change um you know how
35:13the culture the whole culture of prison
35:16is crazy. Yeah. the whole culture, you
35:18know, so we're looking to change that
35:19culture, right? We're looking to to
35:21really the whole process, you know, like
35:23you know, everything is back, right? And
35:25then their unions is so strong they set
35:27the narrative, right? They struck, they
35:30went on strike because we was in their
35:32ass, right? And they start saying things
35:34like their lives are in jeopardy. And
35:37I'm saying to the governor and people
35:39that were
35:40listening, 150 prisoners died last year,
35:44right? 31% of them was 40 and under. Not
35:47one correction officer died who life is
35:49in jeopardy. It's definitely not theirs,
35:52right? It's definitely not their lives.
35:53So they set this narrative to make the
35:56public think that their lives is in
35:58danger, that they need more help. No.
36:01And my position was they strike fire all
36:03of them bastards cuz all they going to
36:04do is go back and murder people, right?
36:07Um two months later, what did they do?
36:09They killed another young man, 22 years
36:11old, had a fiveyear uh sentence in the
36:14facility across the street from Marcy
36:16where the first one happened. Right. So,
36:18you know, we've been fighting it to kind
36:20of like change that whole culture. Um,
36:22we got a couple of bills out with
36:23Senator Salazar that we supporting. Um,
36:25and we actually uh having a few more rid
36:28up, man. So, that you know, one, we want
36:30transparency, right? Uh, we want the
36:32attorney general to stop representing
36:35these prison guards that's abusive. If I
36:38file a lawsuit when I'm in jail and I
36:39says, "Officer John Edwards, bust me in
36:42my head." The attorney general shouldn't
36:43be defending them, right? States
36:46attorney, why are you defending somebody
36:47that abused me that beat me up? You the
36:50state's attorney. That don't make any
36:51sense. You spend taxpayers dollars to
36:53perpetrate these correction officers
36:55assaulting people. So, we're trying to
36:57change that as well. And we trying to
36:59make him more accountable. Right? If I
37:01pop off on a correction officer, bust
37:03him in his head, I get a new charge.
37:05Mhm. If he pop off on me, nothing
37:07happens. Right. How can that be? Right.
37:09He's the one with the civil service
37:11badge. He's the one that's supposed to
37:12uphold the law. Absolutely. Right. You
37:14supposed to punish him first to set the
37:16example. So, we trying to change that
37:18narrative as well and say, "Look, you
37:20know, we want these people held
37:21accountable. We don't want to wait till
37:23somebody's murdered that they got to be
37:25charged. Want the attorney general to do
37:27a job and stop defending them. Want the
37:29governor to call a spade a spade uh and
37:32tell all those unions it's over. Now you
37:34had however many years it was in doing
37:36that [ __ ] to my people. We're not
37:37allowing you to do it no more. So that's
37:39one of the coalitions you probably hear
37:40about that we on. Um but you know our
37:43job man is really just to give people
37:45who don't have a voice a voice.
37:47Absolutely. And I mentioned uh Fat
37:48Danny, Danny Ranc earlier, right? Shout
37:50out to Fat Danny. Shout out to Fat Danny
37:52of ours, you know. And you know Danny
37:54has a case like I had. Um he's convicted
37:57him of a quad murder. They said he
37:59killed four people. was a part of a crew
38:01that killed four people.
38:04Um, there was an informant in a federal
38:07case that told the FBI that Fat Danny
38:10had nothing to do with it. He wasn't
38:11driving the car, who actually was. Um,
38:14the family members of the deceased says
38:17Danny had nothing to do with it. All of
38:19the codefendants that's convicted in the
38:21murders said Danny had nothing to do
38:23with it. And in fact, the cop that
38:25framed him, uh, Teans, has went on done
38:29a lot of legal stuff in the police
38:30department, but he was having sex with
38:34the one of the females in the Morales
38:36family um was in their weddings and all
38:38that, the witnesses against him. Um, and
38:40he used them in three different murders,
38:42right? And every time the son would say
38:44he was going to the store to get milk
38:46when a murder happened. He so happened
38:48to be going to the store to get milk. um
38:50Danny cases in the Manhattan uh district
38:52attorney's office in that unit that I
38:54told you we got developed uh from that
38:56point uh criminal review criminal review
38:58unit and they had it for over three
39:00years. It's been sitting there despite
39:03all of the evidence that he didn't do
39:04it. It's just sitting there uh because
39:06Bragg and all due respect to him is just
39:08not a courageous prosecutor. Um Terry
39:11Rosenblot who he has elected to be his
39:13chief is not a courageous prosecutor. Um
39:16and and and you know we gonna keep
39:18fighting man. Uh shout out to Glen
39:21Garber his lawyer as well to Danny get
39:23out and we planning on uh doing a rally
39:26soon outside of Manhattan on behalf of
39:29Danny because enough is enough. Yeah.
39:31Right. This guy got over 30 years in.
39:33Yeah. 32 years in murder he didn't do.
39:35It's clear he didn't commit these quad
39:37murders. It's overwhelming evidence.
39:38Anybody that was involved has went on
39:40record to say he didn't do it. So these
39:42are the type of challenges we take on.
39:44Um, we fight him to the end. We fight
39:46him to the end, man. We don't walk away
39:47from a brother. We gonna fight that one.
39:48We got to get Danny out. We got to get
39:50Danny out, man. You know. Yeah. It's not
39:53That's not It's just not it. And as far
39:56as prison reform, did y'all implement
39:58anything as in regards to like uh
40:01getting cameras for the for the CEOs to
40:03have cameras inside like on a certain
40:05point at least on the receiving room. I
40:07know they probably can't have it
40:08throughout the whole facility, right?
40:09But to to you know our our our worst
40:12times which is like when you get to you
40:14get to com stop, you get to these jails
40:17and they put you they put your head on
40:18the wall for half an hour and just abuse
40:21you for life for no reason. For no
40:23reason. [ __ ] is crazy. Like and you see
40:25how you just said that that's the norm,
40:28right? The public don't know that. That
40:29that's the norm. Oh, that's the norm. We
40:31can all talk about it. We can all talk
40:32about We all with which with with it's
40:35like a it's like a underworld between us
40:38brothers that been convicted and been up
40:39top of North. Yes. We could all talk
40:41about what we go through when we go to
40:43certain facilities. Yes. Yes. And it's
40:45like a norm. It's a norm. Not knowing
40:48that that's not really It was never
40:50supposed to be like that. It was never
40:51designed to be that way. The tension
40:53that the correction officers create.
40:55Yeah. Right. They create that tension.
40:57Of course. Right. Immediately when you
40:59get off the bus, they create that
41:00tension soon as they look at your
41:01number. Yes. they talk they they only
41:03they on you they on you right and these
41:05are the people that's been entrusted
41:07with rehabilitating people right so we
41:09got to change that so yes we've the
41:11governor has has put millions of dollars
41:13in to make sure that body cams are in
41:16every facility right and you got to
41:18remember the officers I mean the
41:20officers that killed uh Mr. Brooks,
41:23Ronald Brooks
41:25had body cams on. They thought they was
41:28off. So if if it wasn't for these body
41:32cams and and being able to see how they
41:34brutalized this young man, choked him,
41:36kicked him and beat him. Another one, it
41:38would have been just another one
41:39unreported. Unreported. They always say
41:41it's unreported how he died. Right. And
41:43that's another problem. We saying that
41:45we want independent medical examiners on
41:47every murder that happened now, right?
41:49We want to know how you unreported.
41:50You're a medical examiner in the county.
41:52Of course, you don't want to tell on
41:53your cousin. And these little counties
41:55with these prisons, everybody know
41:56everybody. They all family. They're all
41:58related. They're all related, right? So,
42:00you can't get justice in those little
42:02towns because they all racist. They all
42:04don't like blacks and Hispanics, right?
42:06And they feel that they can do what they
42:08want to do with us. Nobody going to do
42:09anything to them uh because of the
42:11jurisdiction in their house. Right.
42:12Right. So, we working on changing that.
42:14Um, of course we working on getting as
42:17visual as we possibly can, but more than
42:19anything working on getting these guys
42:20out, right? Second look at, right? If a
42:24guy has been in prison 15, 10 years, got
42:27immaculate record doing the right thing,
42:29he should get a chance to petition to a
42:31judge and say, "Your honor, like I'm
42:33rehabilitated. This is the things that
42:35I'm doing." And let a judge decide
42:36should he go to parole. Let the parole
42:39board decide if he should get out.
42:40That's great. Right. And then we also
42:42working on the 55 and elder bill. Uh
42:44shout out to rap uh Hamza and you know
42:47this is their bill uh says that guys age
42:50out at a certain age right 55 and over
42:53these guys are not coming out here man
42:55most of them to commit a crime you know
42:57and we saying they should too should
42:59have an opportunity to go to parole
43:00board let a parole board decide whether
43:03or not they should get a shot to come
43:04home or not. Yeah. So, so there's some
43:07bills that's out um that we working on,
43:09man. To try to get out earlier because
43:11there a lot of brothers in there that's
43:12been in jail for a long time. Yes. And
43:14they old and they ain't coming home
43:16doing nothing but just a good job and
43:19live the rest of the 20some years they
43:20got left. You know what I mean? You know
43:22what I mean? Whatever they, you know,
43:23God bless, but that's just the truth,
43:25right? And um I think that's a great
43:27bill. I think I think everything y is
43:29great, man. Yeah. So, that's some of the
43:30initiatives that we supporting. Um, and
43:34you know, we got there's another one
43:36called challenging the wrong conviction
43:37act. So, one of the things that I did
43:40when I was in prison, and I told you
43:43about the procedure bars of the
43:45postconviction statue that was keeping a
43:47lot of people in prison. Yeah. In my
43:49case, for the first time in New York
43:51history in 2014, people versus Hamilton,
43:54the appellet division, second department
43:56ruled that that can't happen anymore.
43:58They said innocent people should have a
44:01forum to be heard irrespective of any
44:04procedure rule. They said procedure
44:07should never throw innocence out. So
44:09they said that long as you meet a
44:11certain criteria with the evidence of
44:13innocence, judges must give you a
44:14hearing. So that opened the doors for a
44:16lot of other people to be able to get in
44:18that was innocent. Yeah. The problem
44:20with the with the with the rule is the
44:23court of
44:24appeals later on modified it that says
44:26okay only if you want to trial. So if a
44:29person pled guilty and evidence come out
44:32now that he's innocent and he only pled
44:34because he was afraid of going to trial
44:36and being convicted that he can't come
44:38in and argue. So he moving to change the
44:40law on that as well on some court of
44:43challenging wrong for conviction act.
44:44[ __ ] I fall under that. You know what I
44:45mean? I was a scared young man was
44:48afraid. Mhm. I was like I was out there
44:50getting in trouble just like you was
44:52involving all kind of [ __ ] Right. Cuz
44:55that's all we was doing. Robbing and
44:56stealing. Hey
44:59every thinking nothing. That's right.
45:02Then got caught for something I didn't
45:03do. Right. And I ain't doing man. That
45:06[ __ ] really [ __ ] me up. I was like
45:07what I know I did all this and I know I
45:09wasn't an angel. Right. That's karma.
45:12Right. But I'm like damn right. I wasn't
45:15no way around when this incident
45:17happened. Mhm. And um I think that's
45:20great, man. I think that's that's a
45:21great thing, you know. So, we definitely
45:23trying to get that passed as well. Um
45:26and we continue to to like be active in
45:28the community. We got a town hall coming
45:29up in Brooklyn uh tomorrow on notion and
45:33dean of the church and we stay in
45:35communication with the community, man.
45:37Letting them know that together we make
45:39change, man. You know, if we don't
45:42tackle this system together, then we
45:45[ __ ] man. We [ __ ] I love everything
45:46y Local elections is the most important.
45:49Yeah. People don't realize that they
45:50worry about Trump, right? And Trump is
45:52not going to do much in New York City.
45:54We got to worry about who our local
45:56prosecutor is, who our mayor is, who our
45:58assemblyman is, who our burough
45:59president is, what's really what's
46:00really affecting us, right? On a
46:02dayto-day
46:03basis somewhere else, right? Right.
46:05Right. Right. He's in Washington DC in
46:07Florida. Absolutely. Right. We need to
46:08make sure terrorism and all that and all
46:10that. We got to make sure our elected
46:12officials right here got our best
46:14interest. making sure I can start from
46:16the community. It start from the
46:17community, man. Start from right there.
46:19Well, I want you, Derek. I want I want
46:20you I want to just uh point out that I
46:23love everything you guys are doing, man.
46:25Thank you. And you could definitely
46:26count me in. Thank you. You know, I I do
46:28a lot of, you know, a lot of work in
46:30regards with a lot of brothers, you
46:31know, going back to the prison in the
46:33jail system in our city, you know,
46:35Rakers Island. Yes. But I would
46:38definitely would love to, you know, one
46:40million% anything that you could use me
46:41for. Anything you could you could always
46:43count on me, you could reach out to CK
46:46manager be like, "Yo, Pete, we need
46:48Pistol here. We need him to be involved
46:50in this. This is big and and I'm there."
46:52Like, thank you, brother. Thank you. And
46:54the platform,
46:56in the yard, this is this is the reason
46:57this is created because this platform is
46:59for us. Yes. So for things like what
47:02you're doing with the brother, the great
47:03work that you're doing. So with that
47:05being said, anything that you could do
47:08in regards to having a commercial done,
47:10right? You you more no charge here. You
47:13know what I'm saying? We ain't doing no
47:15This is not anybody else giving me
47:17sponsors. Got you. This is for us. I got
47:19you. So if you create a a commercial and
47:22fit it in, you could contact CK, get it
47:24get a nice commercial of what you're
47:27doing with all your information and how
47:28the contact to make your what you're
47:30doing bigger and greater. Yes, I would
47:33love to have that. and I'mma place it on
47:34my um dog in the yard channel. We
47:37definitely do that, brother. You know
47:38what I'm saying? So, every time my
47:39episodes come up, it's there. It'll come
47:41up. It's there. Every time my episodes
47:43come up, your information how with with
47:46the contact for those love friends and
47:48family, they got they their loved ones
47:49in prison with, you know, with they do
47:52due to crime and they they want to reach
47:53out, they'll be able to reach out to you
47:54guys or anything anything that's going
47:56on that we might be able to help them
47:58with and assist them with. Appreciate
47:59that. You know what I'm saying? So, let
48:00me just tell you another one of my my my
48:03jobs if I should say. Um, again, another
48:06one of college. Um, all I got is a GED.
48:10Um, I studied law over 30 years. Um, I
48:14work in the Cardoo School of Law. Um, we
48:18teach forensic science and I lead a
48:20field clinic and supervised four lawyers
48:23and a bunch of students to work on
48:25actual innocence cases. the resources at
48:27this college are way more than the
48:30nonforprofit organization. So, we able
48:32to reach many more cases uh through this
48:35college setting than anything else. But
48:37I say that to say to the young brothers
48:40and sisters, man, coming up, you know
48:43that whatever it is, man, that you dream
48:46of doing or find a passion to do, you
48:48can do. Like I'm in rooms with people
48:51that got doctor's degrees, master's
48:53degrees, and everything else. And when
48:55they talk about the accolades, I start
48:56out by saying I got a GED. But
48:59everything I say is just as important as
49:01what they say. Absolutely. Um knowledge,
49:04you know, is is is is knowledge, right?
49:07It's powerful. Absolutely. So no matter
49:08no matter what your degrees are, pick a
49:10book up, man. Always educate yourself.
49:13I'm selftaught. Everything I ever
49:14learned is from picking a book up and
49:16finding the time to read it. um not
49:18going to institutions. In fact, you
49:20know, I love schools. I think the
49:21schools are very good, but I think also
49:24it indoctrinates you how you think
49:25sometimes you're not strong enough to
49:28have your own will. So, I believe in the
49:29miseducation of a negro by Carter G.
49:32Woodson. That's right. Right. That we
49:34can educate ourselves, man, to be
49:36whatever it is we want to be. Right.
49:38School ain't for everybody. Yeah. Right.
49:40School ain't for everybody. Some people
49:41going to be entrepreneurs, man, or or
49:43come out and and be whatever. But just
49:46don't give up on yourself, man. You
49:48know, know that you got a voice, man.
49:49That you perfect, man. That God made you
49:52in a way that you could do anything it
49:53is you want to do. That's fact. And
49:55don't be limited, man. We change the
49:56world. I mean, it's proven. It's right
49:59here. You know, you know, it's in the
50:02flesh right here. Living proof right
50:04here. I mean, person with no education.
50:07That's right. You know, turn around and
50:08change his life. Going back, giving back
50:10to our community, right? going back to
50:12our our brothers that's in in lock down
50:14right now that needs that chat that that
50:16that I needed when I was in jail. You
50:18know what I mean? So they could get on
50:19the right path and get with contact with
50:21their lawyers and whatever they need in
50:23the system and all that with all that.
50:24So and my yo man, listen man, this is
50:27it's only God's work, man. It's God's
50:29work, brother. You know what I'm saying?
50:30But you got to but it got to come from
50:32here. It got to be a passion. You got to
50:33put you got to be a passion. You got to
50:35be able to want it. You got to be able
50:36to want it. You got to be able to want.
50:38You know what I'm saying? And I And I
50:39love I love that, man. Um, you mentioned
50:41that you spent a lot of time in the box.
50:42I want to have been what was the what
50:44was the uh I did listen I did 10 years
50:47in in special housing unit man. Seven
50:49straight uh then three more. Um again
50:52man you know I was litigator right. So I
50:54would write up everything. I would I
50:55would litigate. I would sue all the
50:57cards or whatever. And in retaliation
50:59they would just keep me in the box set
51:01me up right. Every time I give him urine
51:04it was dirty. It was marijuana in the
51:05urine every single time. When I gave him
51:07water it was marijuana in the urine no
51:08matter what. Right. It was no justice,
51:12no violence. 10 years um for dirty
51:15urines, man. 10 years. Right. Today, the
51:18Hall Act prohibits that, right? Says you
51:20can't lock somebody up in segregation uh
51:23when he's not a threat to the safety and
51:25security of the facility, right? How do
51:27you do that? So, you know, today they
51:28can't do it anymore, but when I was
51:30there, man, they was giving guys years
51:32and years in special housing unit for
51:34nonviolent offenses, you know, and you
51:37know, the box was terrible. guys
51:39throwing shits, banging all day, making
51:41noise. So, the object was to drive you
51:43insane. The reason why they would put
51:45you in there is for you to lose your
51:46sanity, right? They was getting off on a
51:49dis- minded gods. They love to see
51:51blacks and Hispanics come out uh, you
51:53know, crazy, bugged out. They figure
51:55they accomplish something. Uh, God
51:57bless each other. Yeah. You know, but
52:00God bless me, man, to come out stronger.
52:02Absolutely. And being able to But I seen
52:05a lot, man, seeing guys poke their own
52:06eyeballs out, hang up. Yeah. Yeah. You
52:08know, all of that in there, man. It's a
52:10great umbrella. Oh, yeah. Of course.
52:11They know why, you know, mental health
52:12is important. Oh, man. You know, so
52:14that's, you know, you know, brothers
52:16come out of there picking up cigarette
52:17buzzing. Absolutely. And then they want
52:19to know why we got a stigma against
52:21mental health. Yeah. Because we seen
52:23people overmedicated, of course. God
52:25going in, you think he r come out
52:27shaking now, his hands can't stop
52:28moving, he's trembling, picking up
52:29cigarette butts. How did that help him
52:31going to mental health? It made him
52:32worse. So, you know, our experiences
52:35gives us, you know, reason to have pause
52:38when you talk about mental health. But
52:39I'm here to say to to anybody, man,
52:41that's leaving prison, right? Get
52:43diagnosed, man. Don't be afraid, man.
52:45Yeah. Don't be afraid. Mental health.
52:47Mental health is important. Yeah. You
52:48got to go, man. If you feel that you
52:50need it, don't be ashamed, right? Get
52:52it. It's okay cuz only you got to deal
52:53with yourself. That's right. You know
52:55what I'm saying? Live with yourself. You
52:56know what I'm saying? Ain't nobody else,
52:57your friends, your family. At the end of
52:59the day, you're going to wind up going
53:00to sleep by yourself. That's right. And
53:02it's going to be that moment where you
53:03you might need that help. You going to
53:04need it, man. We in a different time.
53:07That's right. I tell brothers all the
53:08time, we in a different time. Go out and
53:10get the help, man. That don't make you
53:11less of a man. That's right. Don't make
53:13Don't think for young brothers out
53:14there, oh man, they going to make they
53:16going to, you know, full they going to
53:18make jokes about me going No, man.
53:20That's right. Let them make jokes. Yeah.
53:22Let them make jokes, but you getting the
53:23help that you need. That's right. Don't
53:25let the joke be on you. Absolutely. You
53:26know what I mean? You wind up back in
53:28prison because you had a mental health
53:29episode. Absolutely. Oh, that you could
53:30have cured, man. I usually ask uh my my
53:32my guests about prison reform. You know,
53:35in this case, you know, I mean, you
53:37doing everything else that has to do
53:38with prison reform, you know? You know
53:40what I mean? I think that terminology,
53:42you know, look, I think that society
53:45owes people to get out of prison a lot,
53:47right? Until they begin to recognize
53:49that, right, and treat human beings like
53:52human beings, right? And I say to people
53:54when I'm in the room, right, because I
53:56always believe that the people closer to
53:57the problem is closer to the solution,
53:59right? Right. And they got people that
54:00never been to prison, got their own
54:02idea. I'm saying, "No, let's hear from
54:03the people that been there." They'll
54:04tell you what they need. Yes. Right.
54:06Housing, jobs, right? How does a person
54:08work 20 years in DMV, right, in prison
54:11and get out and can't get a job? DMV
54:14won't hire him, right? But he made
54:15license plates, so they worked for 20
54:17years. We got to change that whole
54:19mentality, man. We got to realize that
54:21you talking about Mexicans work hard.
54:23People from different these guys in
54:25prison work hard. Work hard, too. Give
54:27them a job. You going to see how hard
54:28they work. Absolutely. You know,
54:30everybody just need that opportunity.
54:31They need that opportunity, too. That's
54:33it. And we could work as as as hard as
54:35you see every other culture works. Yeah.
54:38You know, don't be afraid. That's what
54:40it's about. Don't be afraid. You know
54:42what I mean? Yeah. Derek, man, I want to
54:44thank you so much. Thanks for having me,
54:45brother. I appreciate you. I like the
54:47work that you doing. Yeah, man. To
54:49always have you anytime you want.
54:51Definitely. You know, you're more than
54:52welcome to come up here, dog in the
54:53yard, your platform, you know what I
54:55mean? For the brothers, man, to to to
54:57let it out. definitely saying to give it
54:59knowledge for these young brothers out
55:00there and all that, man. Keep up the
55:02good work, man. I love what you do, man.
55:04Anything you do, I definitely I'm here.
55:06I'm supportive. Anything you need, you
55:08can call me the the the Fat Danny. Uh
55:10Ratty, we going to do that. Let's do
55:12that. Um I want to make sure that you
55:14anywhere you want to elevate your
55:17program and everything that you do. You
55:19want to do a commercial, have it have it
55:20attached to dog in the yard. Yes. Reach
55:23out to CTK. All you got to do is just
55:25get it done. Make or not. here. Help you
55:27get it done. Make it make it official on
55:29camera and we put it up there on my
55:31website and anybody in the whole world
55:32can see it. They can get the information
55:34they need for those that that need it.
55:36We appreciate it, brother. We appreciate
55:37it, man. And with that, man, go ahead.
55:39What else you got to say, man? Free fat
55:40Danny, man. That's it. Free Fat Danny.
55:42Know, man. You already know. It's your
55:43boy Pistol Pete dog in the yard. Thank
55:45you, D. Yes, brother. Thanks for having
55:47me. Family and friends. Yes. Family and
55:49friends, y'all. All right. You already
55:50know it's your boy.
55:54What up? What up? Welcome back to Dog in
55:56the Yard with your boy Pistol P. First
55:58and foremost, I want to thank Derek for
56:00coming through. Appreciate you, man. I
56:02love what you're doing out there. Uh
56:04your family, your friends, Ry convicted.
56:06I mean, y'all moving as I see her to
56:09this date. You guys are got exonerated
56:12like 16 brothers, you know, and um it's
56:15big. Keep doing the great work. I'm
56:18ready to catch up with you. And you
56:20already know I'm here. The platform is
56:22here. Dog in the yard is here. Anytime
56:24you ready to come back, you already
56:26know. Your boy pistol dog of the y'all.

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