Dennis Rader interview — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00[Music]
2. 0:00hello you have a prepaid call from
3. 0:03Dennis L reader an inmate at Kansas
4. 0:06Department of Corrections to accept this
5. 0:09call press or save
6. 0:12when you went before judge Waller and he
7. 0:15asked you to talk about the details of
8. 0:17all the crimes what was what were you
9. 0:19thinking what was that like for you well
10. 0:22I guess I want to be sure
11. 0:23to know what happened and people were
12. 0:25aghast that I would go like that whoa
13. 0:28it's like I was putting on a show or
14. 0:29something were you feeling anything when
15. 0:31that was happening was I just unloaded
16. 0:35maybe the wave a pressure valve I guess
17. 0:37okay
18. 0:39why did you want to put your story out
19. 0:42there
20. 0:43the main thing is
21. 0:45you have to help understand a dark mind
22. 0:48you know I lived a normal life you gotta
23. 0:50had a real dark mind
24. 0:52and that's the 54 000 question
25. 0:57why did I do that
26. 0:59so your fantasy life was more important
27. 1:02to you than your real life it sounds
28. 1:04like
29. 1:05well I guess in the degree it was the
30. 1:08fantasy world was always right there you
31. 1:10know not very far away I could switch
32. 1:12gears and move into one and move out of
33. 1:15the other very quickly
34. 1:17I would love it that you could just get
35. 1:19some of this stuff off your chest your
36. 1:22health is declining and I think it'd be
37. 1:24really great for you to be able to just
38. 1:26say what you need to say
39. 1:29is that okay with you
40. 1:31yeah I think so
41. 1:34so good morning hello Dennis
42. 1:37I'm in Wichita haven't been here since
43. 1:392016. oh
44. 1:41are you ready to go
45. 1:44okay
46. 1:47okay
47. 1:51nervous okay
48. 1:54so what's your cell like
49. 2:01the Optometry has cracked and I looked
50. 2:04through that and I look for figures I'm
51. 2:06going to look for Eyes First and that's
52. 2:08what I usually spot the ice and then I I
53. 2:11probably draw hundreds and hundreds of
54. 2:13those things off before
55. 2:18I call them Escape monsters
56. 2:21is that why you call yourself a cave
57. 2:23monster
58. 2:24yeah people call me a monster I guess I
59. 2:27am sort of a monster but basically a
60. 2:29doctor and with Dr Jekyll and Dr Hyde
61. 2:33what were you anticipating when you
62. 2:36thought about getting married what were
63. 2:38you anticipating being as a husband well
64. 2:41I think the main thing on man is love I
65. 2:43was really in love with my wife and I
66. 2:46still am I I still have one memories but
67. 2:49they should not thinking like any man we
68. 2:50fall in love we don't really have any
69. 2:52other thoughts except we want to
70. 2:54eventually we don't marry that that
71. 2:56married your person that you've met
72. 2:57falling in love with
73. 3:00you got a job at Cessna which you loved
74. 3:03right and then and then you were laid
75. 3:06off how did what was that like for you
76. 3:09oh that was a tremendous
77. 3:18tremendous but why would that why would
78. 3:21getting laid off get you to the point
79. 3:23where you want to break in someone's
80. 3:25house
81. 3:26frustrated with the system
82. 3:30so I had an opportunity for that evening
83. 3:33and that's basically going on a crowd
84. 3:36and broke in my first home
85. 3:41that person wasn't involved in your
86. 3:44layoff why would you pick someone like
87. 3:46that to take out your frustration on
88. 3:50basically I wanted to say something like
89. 3:53this deviant
90. 3:54you know that was a way to relieve my
91. 3:56frustration did it work
92. 3:58Oh no I got worse
93. 4:00I started on this dark side a long time
94. 4:04before that and the volcano was finally
95. 4:06starting to erupt I turned the
96. 4:09temperature up in the house so that
97. 4:11would mess up their body heat
98. 4:12temperatures
99. 4:14I did things like that
100. 4:16do you remember where you spotted her
101. 4:19but it's probably when I took my wife to
102. 4:22work
103. 4:24this is the weather now and there's a
104. 4:27lot of ice and snow a lot of times you
105. 4:29didn't like to drive on that
106. 4:31so I wasn't at work at that time I was
107. 4:33probably in that area where the hotel
108. 4:35was lived and then saw her and the kids
109. 4:37go to school one day so that I thought
110. 4:39well this might be it or reference
111. 4:42fantasy victim would become real
112. 4:45basically I just focused on that all the
113. 4:48time I was up in the neighborhood I
114. 4:50checked on that house
115. 4:51but saying after another
116. 4:53what was your plan what did you think
117. 4:55you're going to do that day
118. 4:57I had a war that picked out Northwest of
119. 5:02Wichita
120. 5:03that I was going to take her and kidnap
121. 5:05her
122. 5:07probably anger
123. 5:10people carols are going to mess up the
124. 5:12whole formula he wasn't supposed to be
125. 5:14there he was
126. 5:16they had a fence all the way around
127. 5:19I hadn't looked over the side of the
128. 5:21fence
129. 5:22all of a sudden their dog prints all
130. 5:24with me
131. 5:26didn't think about that
132. 5:28but Earl had to do something
133. 5:30that was teed up too much
134. 5:33but about that time I reached down
135. 5:36with my headers
136. 5:39got the phone line
137. 5:42remember the cube you know it's a big
138. 5:44guy bad guy
139. 5:46that's some early father and husband to
140. 5:49my family
141. 5:51I worked at church I worked at Scouts
142. 5:54there's there's the Dark Side of Me
143. 5:59and that's a very strong
144. 6:02did you think you would do it again did
145. 6:04you think it would that's it I'm done
146. 6:06it's out of my system or did you think I
147. 6:09that wasn't there for a while I guess
148. 6:11you call cold station
149. 6:13where it starts building it okay
150. 6:18for a while and then it wears off and
151. 6:21then they're ready to go at it again
152. 6:24you did hear that on the radio when it
153. 6:28happened
154. 6:36to the 400 of my employer's daughters I
155. 6:39had a station wagon
156. 6:40I always had a crush on her
157. 6:43and I love setting the front seat and
158. 6:46she always wore a skirt
159. 6:48and it was on the radio and I heard that
160. 6:52when I found out that they were tied up
161. 6:55that's that's what we're going to do
162. 6:58that went back to the bondage thing
163. 7:02after the oteros the Catherine bright
164. 7:05murdered wasn't very long afterward
165. 7:08didn't you think that was risky
166. 7:10[Music]
167. 7:21but she played into the uh some of the
168. 7:24magazines on scene you know a purple
169. 7:26Towing after cohes and this
170. 7:29I saw her one day in her house people I
171. 7:32thought well this might be all right I
172. 7:34mean he's coming from somewhere at that
173. 7:35time of the day and I'm in between
174. 7:38classes so that's a possibility
175. 7:42when you had picked out uh Catherine
176. 7:45bright how long did how long did you
177. 7:48watch her before you decided to act
178. 7:53ress for a while to see whether that
179. 7:55would cost me anyhow if you could come
180. 7:57home in the afternoon
181. 7:58so I thought well all I have to do is
182. 8:01break in and be waiting for it when she
183. 8:03comes in so I took the picture probably
184. 8:05another month
185. 8:08he panicked and I just out of here
186. 8:13stupidness I stabbed her
187. 8:16and I didn't I didn't like to use a
188. 8:18knife I really did
189. 8:20but then secondly he ran out of the
190. 8:23place
191. 8:25the doors wide open
192. 8:27so I just saw him running down the porch
193. 8:29and heading out on the road
194. 8:32those are just total mass
195. 8:36[Music]
196. 8:37when did you first feel like you were a
197. 8:40serial killer
198. 8:43um
199. 8:43uh probably after
200. 8:45um
201. 8:50when did you think of a barn for the
202. 8:52elaborate torture devices
203. 8:55I'm back from grade school
204. 8:58that's when I first started
205. 9:01it happened when we were playing Cowboys
206. 9:03and Indians we would tie each other up
207. 9:06in a silo and I got sexually excited
208. 9:10when I'm ready to fight up or even
209. 9:13better when somebody else is playing
210. 9:16later on I came up with my sexual
211. 9:19fantasy about the silos
212. 9:21did you pay attention to the news
213. 9:23coverage afterward
214. 9:30s
215. 9:35that he came to the police
216. 9:37I looked at that and I said whoa that's
217. 9:39pretty close
218. 9:42what gave you that idea that you should
219. 9:44have a name and how did you come up with
220. 9:46it
221. 9:47I've been reading books like The Boston
222. 9:49Strangler and basically I did mind the
223. 9:52people the other Killers didn't name
224. 9:54themselves
225. 9:56no they picked up
226. 9:58or the police and I thought I'd be a
227. 10:00little different I'd go ahead and name
228. 10:01my own name
229. 10:15factor x has been an overall Drive even
230. 10:19today if I see something on TV or a
231. 10:21picture or start thinking about the old
232. 10:24times of fantasy I still get that
233. 10:26feeling you know that sexual feelings I
234. 10:28really do okay I can't it's just still
235. 10:31there
236. 10:38[Music]
237. 10:44when do you think that started for you
238. 10:56let me take you back to your childhood
239. 10:59you you haven't talked very much even to
240. 11:01me about your father and your sense of
241. 11:04your father
242. 11:05okay
243. 11:07oh there's lunch oh I'm sorry
244. 11:12what do you have baloney they kind of
245. 11:19well I mean feel free to to eat while
246. 11:22you're talking if you if you think you
247. 11:24can do both I don't want you to to waste
248. 11:26that so let's go back to your childhood
249. 11:37uh you work two jobs Moonlighting and he
250. 11:41was just a busy man would you say would
251. 11:43you say you were close to him growing up
252. 11:45then yeah I was closer to probably him
253. 11:48to Mom but uh they were both good
254. 11:51parents
255. 11:53my mom she was vacuuming the living room
256. 11:56and under one of the sofas she got a
257. 11:59drink caught him on the spring
258. 12:02and you can reach it with your other
259. 12:04hand
260. 12:05because she was hurting so she asked me
261. 12:07to go for help
262. 12:09that image of her being a terror and
263. 12:12kind of held is prolonged me into
264. 12:15whatever my dark side
265. 12:17[Music]
266. 12:20I did start to abuse Farm cats
267. 12:24now build a box I'm going to cut out the
268. 12:26top of it just for a cat head
269. 12:29and then I get some milk
270. 12:32and wait till one would get in there and
271. 12:36I pull the string the box to drop over
272. 12:39and let's stick his head up through the
273. 12:41hole
274. 12:42and I had a nice Fork
275. 12:44I never knew that
276. 12:46why did you like hanging cats
277. 12:49there was some sexual excitement there
278. 12:51to see them hung
279. 12:54my fifth grade teacher she was a real
280. 12:57dominating female and she used to pick
281. 13:00on weaklings like me
282. 13:03but anyway she became my first fantasy
283. 13:06victim
284. 13:07I would sneak out and do some window
285. 13:10peeking and so I catch her occasionally
286. 13:12in her bedroom that Forum I had my first
287. 13:15sexual outlet and he wasn't
288. 13:19it wasn't normal because it wasn't with
289. 13:21the female it was me tying myself up in
290. 13:23a in a head roll against defense and I
291. 13:26had this weird feeling
292. 13:28and whoa what was this what happened
293. 13:32you create that again I had to use quasi
294. 13:37I used to like to go to people's closets
295. 13:39mess around in their Chester doors and
296. 13:41stuff and buying nylon socks and panties
297. 13:44and things of that nature that would
298. 13:46steal them
299. 13:47and that was kind of exciting so no one
300. 13:50ever caught you or complained that
301. 13:52things were missing no no I was real
302. 13:55careful
303. 13:57once you knew who you were going to
304. 14:00Target what did that feel like to you
305. 14:02well it's kind of like the uh the Big
306. 14:05Game Hunter I guess you'd say he's got
307. 14:07the the Target or is that the animal any
308. 14:10any sights and he's done this is going
309. 14:13to be it
310. 14:16I think it locked my head one day
311. 14:19I had to come up with some kind of
312. 14:20nickname because a lot of times you can
313. 14:23name on a boat or the oil man they
314. 14:25always
315. 14:26clean their oil wells
316. 14:28I was all geared up to do something and
317. 14:31it didn't happen at project green where
318. 14:33the girls were home but I think I went
319. 14:35to a couple other houses just knocked on
320. 14:37the door so I was in the mood
321. 14:39so that was random but the opportunity
322. 14:42struck and I already had to plan what I
323. 14:44was going to do and there was the
324. 14:46opportunity so I latched on to it having
325. 14:49the children there in Shirley bayan's
326. 14:51house did that bother you at all
327. 15:02you've got any aircraft shooting you
328. 15:04down but your main focus is to drop the
329. 15:06bombs on what they want you to drop the
330. 15:08bombs on nothing else matters
331. 15:11much more Focus
332. 15:13weren't you worried about what might
333. 15:15happen with them
334. 15:25just one of those things I just didn't
335. 15:26do
336. 15:28a little bit too far
337. 15:30I think even serial killers probably has
338. 15:32some kind of tattoos
339. 15:34yeah that was mine
340. 15:36I would not write a female
341. 15:39that I use cold hitches on hands or on
342. 15:42feet that's a very hard not to get a
343. 15:45none basically you want that knot comes
344. 15:47to his Peak there's no way you can get
345. 15:49out of that so that was probably my
346. 15:51favorite knot but the other one was uh
347. 15:53tie a knot on the end of the line and
348. 15:56make a slip knot
349. 15:58how long had you been studying other
350. 16:00serial killers
351. 16:02well
352. 16:10the models Harvey glattman yeah
353. 16:16you enjoyed the look of fear on your
354. 16:19victim's face
355. 16:21well yes uh it's sort of a sexual
356. 16:23arousement with Fox things went pretty
357. 16:26smooth and everything and although her
358. 16:29face now
359. 16:30it's just the idea that I had done it is
360. 16:33all I needed it's like my mom when her
361. 16:36finger was caught in that the couch she
362. 16:38was struggling
363. 16:40after the incident then I had time to
364. 16:43quickly go through some of her stuff and
365. 16:45I took some of her nicer clothes or
366. 16:47clips and stockings and things of that
367. 16:49nature and my tokens
368. 16:52here I go home and my wife's there you
369. 16:55know so I had to make up a story it was
370. 16:58running a little late we were having car
371. 17:00trouble at that time so that's not just
372. 17:02blamed it on the car but when I made the
373. 17:04phone call about fox fox thing had
374. 17:07already happened and there was nothing
375. 17:08nothing about it and that's probably
376. 17:11kind of like a cat and mouse thing I
377. 17:13went ahead and used the phone stupid I
378. 17:15was so afraid that someone would ID that
379. 17:18say well I know that voice well that's
380. 17:20Dennis Rader
381. 17:22when they finally announced that there
382. 17:24was a serial killer on the loose in
383. 17:26Wichita what what was that like for you
384. 17:28it was a pretty
385. 17:33wow they finally recognized me you know
386. 17:36as a felt kind of coffee at that time I
387. 17:39guess you would say
388. 17:42you always had the tripod
389. 17:45and so I ripped that up and well behold
390. 17:48I could take pictures of myself
391. 17:50and then what I had was a squeegee ball
392. 17:52because basically you ran the core board
393. 17:55to your hand and then somewhere I hit
394. 17:57the ball when I was in my pictures and I
395. 17:59just squeezed that ball and the follower
396. 18:01hit slick I used to cross-dressing and
397. 18:03tying myself up as a sexual fantasy like
398. 18:06like I was the victim
399. 18:08I knew they would say something about it
400. 18:10on TV you know BTK sent us a letter that
401. 18:14was an extremely big high I can tell you
402. 18:16that why do you think you wanted this
403. 18:19recognition
404. 18:21along my childhood I've always felt like
405. 18:23I was an underdog
406. 18:25and that
407. 18:27somewhere along the lines of getting a
408. 18:28high in recognition I think it's like
409. 18:30the movie stars and Sage people they see
410. 18:33the picture of a newspaper or a story
411. 18:35about them I think they get a rushed on
412. 18:37that while you were in school you were
413. 18:41also committing your own crimes were you
414. 18:44listening for things that would help you
415. 18:48yes I was very careful with the
416. 18:50forensics I basically my fingerprints
417. 18:55it's kind of were rubber closed ones
418. 18:58that you use when you're washing dishes
419. 19:00one of the people that went to our
420. 19:02church worked with drocks so he
421. 19:05eventually figured out one of my
422. 19:07original letters came from the coffee
423. 19:09from WSU he was not sharp enough that
424. 19:12whoa
425. 19:13after I found that out whatever I caught
426. 19:15the guy didn't send that in I went to
427. 19:17different copies before I sit at it
428. 19:19after you knew that they had traced your
429. 19:22xeroxing to Wichita State to scare you
430. 19:27that they were closing in on you
431. 19:29it did
432. 19:30not prepared for the police to come
433. 19:32knocking on the door
434. 19:37there was times when I thought they were
435. 19:40closing in and I would
436. 19:42hang around and kind of clean up a
437. 19:44little bit
438. 19:46I had hidey holes here there to get some
439. 19:49cabinets at home that I could heighten
440. 19:51up in
441. 19:52the shed
442. 19:55I've had no barns
443. 19:59underneath the house across the space
444. 20:05you got Wichita all in a frenzy over a
445. 20:08serial killer and then you went quiet
446. 20:10what were you doing
447. 20:13right
448. 20:18yeah
449. 20:19and graduated in 79. so there was
450. 20:22another factor I
451. 20:26think
452. 20:29that stuff
453. 20:30never completely stopped
454. 20:33basically collecting detecting magazines
455. 20:35and sketches and Slick cars and three
456. 20:38with like that continued
457. 20:40started
458. 20:44[Music]
459. 20:47with a sexy frizzy
460. 20:49by doing bondage a lot of times I have
461. 20:53pictures of the girls and go through
462. 20:55they have a lamb out
463. 20:57rearrange them look at them
464. 21:00or bring things out from the hiding
465. 21:02holes of my collection that I got from
466. 21:04victims
467. 21:06I bought a nice big suitcase
468. 21:09and I had a lock on it no one else
469. 21:13packing up and ready to go out of town I
470. 21:16would take enough of those things with
471. 21:18me when Paul was at work and I had time
472. 21:22off I would wash all the stuff clean it
473. 21:24all up and try it out and I was trying
474. 21:25to be real careful I didn't leave
475. 21:27anything in there and then I hide that
476. 21:29back in my regular closet my wife taught
477. 21:32me twice and
478. 21:34and what she was really upset and I was
479. 21:37upset that I got caught she just told me
480. 21:39this is it you ever do the skin and ever
481. 21:41catch you we're gonna leave that don't
482. 21:43take the kids we're gonna divorce you
483. 21:45guys we'll make sure that would never
484. 21:48happen again
485. 21:51there was a time where you thought about
486. 21:53suicide
487. 21:58I I just felt to a point where
488. 22:01maybe with the man upstairs or something
489. 22:04with the family
490. 22:06God thought the time has come
491. 22:10basically stalking somebody else
492. 22:13I got another person of a setup forms
493. 22:17in this
494. 22:19because I'm going to take somebody's
495. 22:21life again
496. 22:28you put a loaded 357 in your mouth
497. 22:37like when you didn't pull the trigger
498. 22:39and you put the gun down then what then
499. 22:41what went to your mind ah
500. 22:44I guess I check it out
501. 22:49well it sounds like you gave it a lot of
502. 22:51thought was that about having regrets
503. 22:54and or remorse
504. 22:56building could agree one time I was more
505. 22:59religious knowing him now I thought well
506. 23:02gosh if indeed Kevin doesn't exist what
507. 23:04will my grandparate say to me while I'm
508. 23:06doing all this
509. 23:07but my concept on religion right now is
510. 23:11a lot different than you should be okay
511. 23:14remember the dream you sent to me
512. 23:17I want to read that back to you and see
513. 23:19if you have anything to say about it do
514. 23:22you mind
515. 23:24okay so the dream was about a boxcar
516. 23:28and here's what you wrote
517. 23:32one end had an old-fashioned Barber Shop
518. 23:35like my grandpa cook had
519. 23:38in my dream I'm working on a letter to
520. 23:41you
521. 23:42so it is spread out on the table
522. 23:45I get my call number for a haircut and
523. 23:48realize there is too much stuff left out
524. 23:50for eyes to see
525. 23:52so I walk back to put it into my black
526. 23:55briefcase
527. 23:57then the alarm clock goes off in my
528. 23:59dream and I'm trying to shut it off and
529. 24:01at the same time two police officers
530. 24:04come in one Taps me on the shoulder and
531. 24:07says we know you did more than ten
532. 24:11then I awake to find out the real alarm
533. 24:14clock is buzzing away
534. 24:20I've always really wondered about that
535. 24:24dream and what it meant and it sounded
536. 24:26like you met some very dark things
537. 24:29it does
538. 24:32the dream this is a dream you had and
539. 24:35you wrote it to me what do you think it
540. 24:37means
541. 24:40you're clearly protecting secrets in
542. 24:43this dream and it is related to your BTK
543. 24:47activities I'm really curious about what
544. 24:51else there is that you want would want
545. 24:53to tell me
546. 24:56um well
547. 24:57[Music]
548. 25:02foreign
549. 25:05this dream is related to your BTK
550. 25:09activities and it is something that
551. 25:11you're writing to me but you don't want
552. 25:13other people to find it
553. 25:16I kind of recall a little bit about the
554. 25:19writing that unless you don't recall in
555. 25:21detail
556. 25:23but basically uh
557. 25:25as I told the police
558. 25:28can
559. 25:29candidate
560. 25:30[Music]
561. 25:32okay well let's let's continue this
562. 25:35thinking about this conversation and if
563. 25:38you do have things uh so that you could
564. 25:40write down that would be great
565. 25:43I will do that for you okay
566. 25:52she's usually on the front yard changing
567. 25:55her flowers
568. 25:56that was a long wait I had to wait a
569. 25:58long time in the closet
570. 26:02before he left
571. 26:05he left and then he went to bed
572. 26:08you think you could participate in
573. 26:11church activities
574. 26:12while at the same time harming other
575. 26:15people
576. 26:17didn't it seem to violate what you
577. 26:20believed
578. 26:29that terrible
579. 26:32but I haven't had any well I guess you
580. 26:34would call real bondage type pictures of
581. 26:37a female
582. 26:38but when you first decided to use a room
583. 26:42in the church to bring a body to dress
584. 26:47to take pictures of did it seem weird
585. 26:52like why would you even think of using
586. 26:55the church no
587. 27:02no it's pacing those are opportunities
588. 27:05that I had to really look for my next
589. 27:07victim was around lunchtime that I would
590. 27:09drive over there and eat and then I'd
591. 27:12watch a washer place from my car
592. 27:15yeah use my rest of the telephone man I
593. 27:18had the part hat on and the little
594. 27:20symbol I stuck on it and some gears that
595. 27:23looked like telephone gear you know in
596. 27:25my hands
597. 27:27didn't you know that her husband was
598. 27:29coming home
599. 27:31she mentioned it
600. 27:38mentions around noon time so that was a
601. 27:40big risk that my focus was on her
602. 27:46ever think about
603. 27:48what it would be like for you if
604. 27:51somebody entered your home and did
605. 27:54something like that to your wife
606. 28:00protect my my wife or my kids but I mean
607. 28:03what if you found her dead murdered what
608. 28:06would that have been like for you
609. 28:08oh that would have been very upsetting
610. 28:10it's like Revenge has come back only
611. 28:13well I was building I guess twerk what I
612. 28:16call the perfect the perfect murder she
613. 28:19thought the car had run into her house
614. 28:23what if you stepped out of that door
615. 28:25with a shotgun
616. 28:27I did it all over poor good Lord my wife
617. 28:31my kids my family's friends are gonna
618. 28:33know all about it here I am caught like
619. 28:35a rat and a trap and I had like 55
620. 28:39projects people were pretty close to
621. 28:43meeting the hands of death
622. 28:46didn't happen what were you doing in
623. 28:49those years when nothing was really
624. 28:50happening
625. 28:54get a lot of things for them do a lot of
626. 28:58things with the community
627. 28:59I worked in church
628. 29:01you know working seat out okay but if I
629. 29:05wasn't real busy then I would go out on
630. 29:07a prowling
631. 29:08let me look for my next victim
632. 29:10so basically projects
633. 29:13did you feel like you were in control of
634. 29:15your urges then
635. 29:23part of the excitement is be able to do
636. 29:26to Hunts
637. 29:27[Music]
638. 29:29so I have a report from a woman named
639. 29:33Cheryl she said she talked with you at
640. 29:36the blackout Lounge
641. 29:41more notches on my gun at that time
642. 29:45so I was in the mood I've had other
643. 29:47things that hit my head kit head roll
644. 29:49tape so I had two guns couple knives I
645. 29:53was gonna do something
646. 29:55I was at the heights of my uh eruption
647. 30:01so it was thumbs up what's next
648. 30:06it was totally consultative
649. 30:09I didn't know exactly who lived in that
650. 30:12house because I followed her son home
651. 30:14that time
652. 30:17did you like being a compliance officer
653. 30:28a little bit known
654. 30:30letting people know that now we're still
655. 30:32around
656. 30:35to die in prison or moved out of the
657. 30:37area
658. 30:38or basically just passed away
659. 30:41when Ken landwer did a press conference
660. 30:44about you what was that like for you
661. 30:47well that was pretty high
662. 30:52still exist in our community so be
663. 30:55careful
664. 30:57oh fuel day with Captain Mouse something
665. 31:00fun
666. 31:02why did you decide to send the BTK story
667. 31:05to the TV station
668. 31:07that I wanted to be pleased for the
669. 31:09general population know that yeah there
670. 31:11might be some more you know I mean it's
671. 31:13not right off the sunset there might be
672. 31:15some more
673. 31:17I was wondering because you were so
674. 31:20attuned to Media at that time whether
675. 31:23you ever considered a media person as a
676. 31:28project uh not really not
677. 31:34the I think central would really worry
678. 31:36that maybe I was after her but I really
679. 31:38didn't have her inside
680. 31:41at all we're using them to get things
681. 31:43done and that was the main purpose
682. 31:46what about driving into the Home Depot
683. 31:49parking lot and do you think they'd have
684. 31:51a surveillance camera
685. 31:53well or I get my incident work put that
686. 31:57stuff in the back of the pickup
687. 31:58there wasn't any cameras mounted on the
688. 32:00flight pole so I knew that there was any
689. 32:02cameras it would be an existence
690. 32:04and I wouldn't be very
691. 32:07mainly just a person
692. 32:09yeah that wasn't really too nervous
693. 32:11about it I sell a lot of stuff to the
694. 32:14mail and didn't have any feedback or any
695. 32:16feedback from it
696. 32:18I guess I got confidence that they were
697. 32:20sort of buddies or something or friends
698. 32:23I kind of had a little bonding with land
699. 32:26where I think I kind of belonged with
700. 32:27him this letter is from BTK and we
701. 32:30thought they were wanting to play cat
702. 32:31and mouse and we wish they were
703. 32:34but I thought they would be truthful
704. 32:37the floppy was it just a test file on it
705. 32:40or was there anything else on it
706. 32:48this is a test
707. 32:52were you worried about getting caught
708. 32:54during this time that they might Trace
709. 32:56something back to you
710. 33:03they would have had to say that what 30
711. 33:05years
712. 33:07but they also had the DNA sample from
713. 33:09Fox
714. 33:10Hank wagonally she has some scraping
715. 33:13stories or fingernail for me because we
716. 33:15did fight
717. 33:17let's talk about when you did get caught
718. 33:20it was a huge effort what was that like
719. 33:23to be in the middle of it
720. 33:31they're all lined up on the street and I
721. 33:33thought what are they there for could it
722. 33:35be me and then as soon as they appeared
723. 33:37in the mirror you mirror my new bottle I
724. 33:41couldn't figure out how they knew
725. 33:42I first thought the major connection
726. 33:44when I dropped off my flopping in a
727. 33:48mailbox and that looked really threw me
728. 33:50because how can you hear me that was no
729. 33:51camera for anything right
730. 33:53I thought I could do
731. 33:55I could do that and talk to or Mr
732. 33:56lawnmower
733. 33:57you know why you're going downtown and I
734. 33:59said I've got an idea I think that
735. 34:01kicked it off right there
736. 34:10well that's it's okay
737. 34:12yeah you're right
738. 34:15I'm sure if you like
739. 34:20because I was trying to catch you
740. 34:23when you ask them to tell you if the
741. 34:26flopping could be traced why did you
742. 34:27trust them I like the scouts always be
743. 34:30truthful not just but trustful that they
744. 34:33have declared war on me and Wars are not
745. 34:35nice things
746. 34:37I actually felt like they should have
747. 34:39given me more respect I guess to playing
748. 34:41her cat and mouse game
749. 34:43why did you finally confess during the
750. 34:46interrogation I talked about the DNA so
751. 34:49nowhere along the line
752. 34:52so that was the final wing
753. 34:54I was comfortable with anything else to
754. 34:56do to be honest
755. 34:59a lot of time of a spelling just because
756. 35:01I think was writing something to the
757. 35:03church or something and I was using her
758. 35:04computer
759. 35:05whoa
760. 35:13I said yeah I've always been bad on
761. 35:15spelling
762. 35:16when you were arrested did it occur to
763. 35:20you that people who looked up to you
764. 35:22were how they were going to feel about
765. 35:24that devastated I can't believe that you
766. 35:27know wow Dennis has been arrested what
767. 35:30what happened how yeah you know I'm sure
768. 35:32that crooks are mine it was a very very
769. 35:35depressed on that you know that well
770. 35:39first of all I didn't think I was able
771. 35:40to get arrested so you know you just
772. 35:41keep going and keep going so you never
773. 35:43think that would ever happen pretty soon
774. 35:45I'll be a black hole I won't be here and
775. 35:47be gone
776. 35:49yeah I've accumulated a lot of deaths a
777. 35:51lot of hurt
778. 35:53and shame on my family everything and
779. 35:55it's kind of like things have been
780. 35:57sucked into me or I'm basically in a
781. 35:59black hole