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Debate With Arnab: Sonia Gandhi Becomes Citizen In 1983, But Voter in 1980! — Transcript

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0:08Refreshing.
0:18>> From the Republic Media Network
0:20headquarters, it's time for Arnab Gowami
0:23on the debate.
0:54Arnav Gowami on the debate.
1:00Tonight we must on the nation's sharpest
1:02opinion agree to debate one of the
1:06biggest and potentially
1:11one of the most unavoidable questions in
1:15Indian politics today.
1:18Did Sonia Gandhi
1:21get her name put in the electoral roles
1:24of India while she was still an Italian
1:27citizen?
1:29This is a question the Congress party
1:31has dodged for 45 years. A question that
1:34the Delhi court, a Delhi court has now
1:36forced open. And what is the question?
1:40The question is around Sonia Gandhi,
1:44an Italian citizen,
1:47ending up on India's electoral role in
1:501980,
1:52three full years before she applied and
1:54became an Indian citizen in 1983.
1:59So how can you get your name in an
2:01electoral role in India if you're an
2:03Italian citizen?
2:06What has happened is that on 21st
2:08September 2026 that is this Monday,
2:12special judge Vishal Gogna of the Rouse
2:14Avenue courts in Delhi, right set aside
2:19the order dated 11th September 2025
2:22passed by the additional chief judicial
2:24magistrate Webhav Churasia.
2:28Now earlier on 11th September 2025, Web
2:33of Chasia had dismissed a complaint
2:36filed by advocate Vikas Tripati vice
2:39president of the Central Delhi Cordbar
2:41Association seeking an FIR and
2:45investigation over alleged voter role
2:47forgery.
2:49Voter role forgery in the Vikas party
2:52versus Sonia Gandhi case. If you haven't
2:55heard about this case, this is the time
2:56to read up about it. Now, this Monday,
3:00Justice Gogna set aside that order by
3:03calling the previous order quote
3:06perverse and improper
3:09a quote non-speaking order on the
3:12question of disclosure of a cognisable
3:15offense unquote by Sonia Gandhi.
3:19What is making things complicated for
3:21Sonia Gandhi is that judge Gogna has
3:23ordered a fresh hearing.
3:26He says the nation wants to know was a
3:27cognisable offense committed.
3:30What documents forged to put a foreign
3:33citizen at that time? Sonia Gandhi a
3:37foreign citizen an Italian citizen on
3:41India's voter role.
3:44Let me give you the facts today in case
3:46you are shocked. Remember everything I'm
3:48telling you is opin not opinion. These
3:51are facts. Here are the facts.
3:54Sonia Gandhi is born in Italy.
3:59She's born as Antonia the Mino in Italy
4:04around 1945 1946.
4:07She marries Rajiv Gandhi in 1968 and
4:10then moves to India.
4:13Her
4:14mother-in-law is the prime minister of
4:16India. She lives in one subdarang road,
4:19the official residence of the prime
4:22minister of India.
4:24But she does not take Indian
4:25citizenship. She remains an Italian.
4:28In fact, she remains an Italian citizen
4:31not for one, not for two, not for five,
4:33not for 10. She remains an Italian
4:35citizen for a decade and a half, 15
4:38years.
4:41She does not take Indian citizenship.
4:43She did not take Indian citizenship
4:45until the 30th of April 1983. These are
4:49facts I'm telling you ladies and
4:51gentlemen.
4:53Congressman, there is no point getting
4:55angry. These are facts. This is on
4:57judicial record. Now the Alabad High
5:00Court has noted the facts. The Supreme
5:02Court of India has noted the facts.
5:06Sonia Gandhi got citizenship under
5:09section 51c of the citizenship act 1955.
5:13The date she gets is 30th April 1983.
5:18So you will say what is the problem? It
5:20is her choice. She wanted to remain an
5:22Italian citizen. Okay. The problem is in
5:25the document that I have with me.
5:29I have a document here.
5:31This document is from 1980.
5:35The electoral roles of New Delhi
5:37parliamentary constituency were revised.
5:40The qualifying date 1st of January 1980.
5:43And what do we find?
5:46We find Sonia Gandhi's name at serial
5:48number 388 polling station 145 address
5:52one subdarang road on the voter list.
5:58So an Italian citizen called Sonia
6:00Gandhi Antonia Dam the Mino is on the
6:02voter list in India. Who are the other
6:06names in that address?
6:09Who are the other names in that address?
6:12Ladies and gentlemen, Indra Gandhi,
6:15Prime Minister of India. Then 64 years
6:18old Rajiv Gandhi
6:22right
6:23son of Firos Gandhi 37 years old. Sanjay
6:26Gandhi 35 years old. Sonia Gandhi then
6:2935 years old and Maneka Gandhi then 28
6:32years old.
6:34Remember this is Sonia Gandhi's name.
6:36Sonia Gandhi is then an Italian citizen
6:39but she's on an Indian voter list. This
6:42is the issue here. There is no point if
6:45the Congress party says we are
6:46beingounded. This is wrong. Was a crime
6:49committed?
6:51Was the law broken? And what does the
6:54law say?
6:56The law says under article 326 of the
6:59Indian constitution section 16 of the
7:02representation of people's act 1950
7:04clearly says only an Indian citizen can
7:07be registered as a voter.
7:10A non-citizen is disqualified period. No
7:12ambiguity no gray area. Sonia Gandhi was
7:14a Italian citizen in 1980. Yes it had
7:19been 12 years since she had come to
7:20India but she was by choice an Italian
7:23citizen. You may be surprised how is she
7:26in the prime minister's why did she not
7:28take Indian citizenship I don't know
7:29it's a personal choice she chose to
7:32remain an Italian citizen till 1983
7:36she was Italian
7:38then the question comes was Sonia Gandhi
7:41therefore an Indian citizen 1980 no
7:44prime of essay she was an Italian
7:46citizen was her name on the voter list
7:49in 1990 allegedly yes serial number 388
7:53unless this document can be proven
7:55wrong. This is a substantial allegation
7:57against her which raises therefore five
8:00serious questions. Remember all of these
8:02are allegations. One, did Sonia Gandhi
8:04therefore commit the grievous crime of
8:06violating India's electoral rules? Is
8:09the document that is being shown around
8:11true or false?
8:14Was she a citizen of India only in 1983
8:18but her name was in the voter list in
8:201980?
8:22Was she not an Italian citizen in 1980?
8:25Are we wrong? Can she prove no, I was an
8:27Italian citizen? In which case, the case
8:29falls flat. Otherwise, it's a serious
8:31case. And is this therefore a very very
8:35sinister and worrying case
8:39of electoral malpractice?
8:43The nation wants to know. Let's debate.
8:49Sonia Gandhi water role controversy is
8:52back in the spotlight.
8:56The case centers on an alleged electoral
8:59role entry from 1980.
9:02According to the complaint, Sonia
9:04Gandhi's name appeared in the New Delhi
9:06constituency electoral role in 1980.
9:10The complaint further alleges that her
9:13name was deleted in 1982 and appeared
9:16again in 1983.
9:19the EO when Sonia Gandhi acquired Indian
9:22citizenship to be precise April 30th
9:251983.
9:28The central question raised before the
9:30court. How could her name have appeared
9:32on the electoral role before she
9:34acquired Indian citizenship?
9:37The complaint also alleged the use of
9:39forge documents.
9:41A magistrate had earlier rejected the
9:44police seeking an FIR and police
9:46investigation.
9:48However, the Sessions Court has now set
9:50aside that order.
9:53The court also called the September 25
9:56order non-speaking and lacking
9:59appropriate reasoning.
10:02The BJP has questioned how Sonia
10:04Gandhi's name could appear on the
10:07electoral roles before she became an
10:10Indian citizen.
10:111980
10:16Petition
10:181980
10:20Gandhi
10:22Hindustan
10:28Gandhi
10:301980
10:37forgery of documents
10:421983 Congress
10:54The court has remanded the matter back
10:56to the magistrate to pass a reasoned
10:59order after hearing fresh arguments.
11:14Abishek
11:16is with me here today. My colleague and
11:19senior executive editor of the network.
11:21Kabishek you know prami when I look at
11:24this case we go to the debate we have
11:26Sudan Chutradi of BJP Kumari of TDP
11:30praala Priyanka Kakar of Ahmedadmi party
11:32Abhasadra of Samwadi party Ratnakatra
11:34party of Congress and in support of
11:37Sonia Gandhi Pularo so we have a wide
11:39variety of participants here today uh
11:42what are the what is the core issue why
11:44this has become so major what is the
11:47what is the fundamental issue the BJP is
11:49trying to raise and is this become a
11:51particular vulnerability
11:53for Sonia Gandhi entire Congress
11:55ecosystem.
11:56>> Well, you you know you mentioned in your
11:58NSO whether the case stands or not. I
12:00would say the case actually stands and
12:02on a solid footing. Okay.
12:04>> Now you have in front of you the
12:05electoral role list the the the slip
12:07that is called from 1980.
12:10>> Yeah.
12:10>> It shows Sonia Gandhi as there enrolled
12:14as a voter.
12:15>> Yes.
12:16>> He became a citizen in 1983.
12:18>> Yeah.
12:18>> It's a fact not denied by the Congress
12:20party. not denied by the Gandhi family.
12:21So obviously this is an anomaly. This is
12:24electoral malpractice. Now the only
12:25technicality is whether Sonia Gandhi
12:28also voted because remember uh just
12:30because the name is there in the voters
12:32list does not primize prove that you
12:34have voted. So that's the only
12:36technicality but the first
12:38>> but it is still a malpractice.
12:39>> It is for sure a malpractice and
12:41>> that you got your name in the voters
12:42list when you were an Italian citizen.
12:44>> Yes. And that's not allowed. That should
12:46not have happened. And remember the
12:47those were the heydays. Indra Gandhi had
12:49just returned after uh
12:50>> she was prime minister.
12:51>> She was prime minister again after 1977
12:54Jantaa experiment and uh uh the Gandhis
12:58perhaps thought that they can get away
12:59with everything just like they could get
13:00away with.
13:01>> Are you saying the crime is also that of
13:03the prime minister of India then prime
13:05minister of India Indra Gandhi who
13:07allowed her daughter-in-law
13:10to her name to be put on the electoral
13:13roles while knowing that she was an
13:14Italian citizen. It's not possible that
13:16the prime minister's house and the prime
13:18minister's office and the defense media
13:20at that time would not have known the
13:21dhabar as it was
13:22>> this is this is then big let's pick this
13:24up right now uh ratnakarti just very
13:28briefly very briefly
13:30let's address the issue
13:34the issue is her name is in the
13:37electoral roles in the national capital
13:41of Delhi we have the polling station
13:42number the year the date the name
13:47right and the serial numbers
13:50which means this is a very big crime if
13:53it is true if it is not true why does
13:55Sonia Gandhi's office or the congress
13:57not deny it
14:00>> hey Dr. For me this is a subjudice
14:04matter and you Abishek Kapoor or Sudhani
14:08or anyone else on this panel doesn't
14:11have any right
14:13to draw any conclusion
14:16because earlier there was a different
14:18order and now the case has been handed
14:20back to the ACGM again to rehear it
14:26without a mandate or clear-cut
14:28instruction do this or do that. So this
14:32is a subjugus case. I would like to
14:34advise Mr. Thrivedi and VJP to in the
14:38meantime find out whether Javal Aru was
14:41a bonafide uh resident and citizen of
14:44India in 1952 or not. Why did he become
14:48the prime minister had he been a I mean
14:52the citizen of Laha or Islam? They
14:53should find out about this. This is the
14:56proper thing. In the meantime, they must
14:58find out whether Javal Lanu was a
15:01bonafideed citizen or not. That would be
15:04a major issue. And how does Sonia Gandhi
15:08was a citizen or not or justify the
15:12rapes in Jammu, Bihar?
15:16Three rapes, five rapes in 2 months, six
15:20rape in UP, rising prices today the you
15:25know the wholesale price of onion jumped
15:28to 135%.
15:32135%. How did this justify? Let the
15:35court come with come with an order and
15:38the Congress and the agreed party and
15:40the party who is defending will do it.
15:42Just
15:43>> I feel that despite coming to you first
15:46in the debate
15:49Dr. Thank you and I would like to now
15:51bring in the Sudanui.
15:54>> See one minute one minute one don't get
15:56worked up. I would I would like to now
15:59bring in Sudhanui.
16:01I just want to say here to everyone
16:02watching the program tonight, this is
16:04not a laughing matter. It is a very
16:06serious matter. I'm not laughing to
16:08Ratnakarati. I would like to say that I
16:10know the law better than you. I know the
16:13law better than you. I know I'm well
16:15within my rights to raise the question.
16:17So don't try to intimidate. Uh the fact
16:20is that the judiciary
16:24nothing else. You are trying to do a
16:26monkey trial here. Nothing else.
16:28>> Can I tell you one thing? I have no
16:30intention to pressurize the judiciary
16:32but I am a firm believer in bringing
16:35issues before through the media among
16:38the people. I've even told the chief
16:39justice of India sir I do believe in the
16:41media said it
16:43>> okay now now Sudhanui Sudanchu Sudhanui
16:46this was the state
16:48>> G can I have a very very civilized and
16:50sane and calm reasonable uh rational
16:54tell me how I am not univilized how do
16:57you feel that I'm not
16:58>> this is the problem Abhishek you know
17:00what happens is
17:02I am the most mature person on the
17:04screen right now but when others become
17:07immature people say why don't I am
17:09presently the most calm, patient and
17:11mature person on this
17:14told me. Thank you sir.
17:23Congress
17:40Now listen to me.
17:47Okay, Sudhani.
17:49Uh why is this a big issue? One, why are
17:52you are you raising it now? Why are you
17:54doing a national level press conference
17:56on this issue? And and do you do you
18:00really think that you can proceed
18:02against Sonia Gandhi or uh and file
18:05criminal charges against her for this?
18:10Uh the type of logic which uh G tried to
18:15give they are not just flimsy and
18:17ridiculous rather than he tried to make
18:19a of himself. As far as the issue
18:22is concerned, it's concerned with the
18:24one of the senior most politicians of
18:26the country who de facto ruled this
18:28country for about 10 10 years. And as
18:31far as the issue is concerned, it's not
18:33just the issue of one voter was there or
18:35not. This is not a technical issue. It
18:38is a very serious constitutional, moral
18:41and legal issue that how the Indian
18:44system has been made captive and what
18:47would have been the consequences if
18:50there someone else would have been there
18:52an ordinary person.
18:58If their government would have been
18:59there, they would have gone to make a
19:02constitutional amendment retrospectively
19:05like Sonia Gandhi when she has to resign
19:07in 2006 on the issue of office of profit
19:11because first Congress tried to target
19:13Ja Bachchan on the issue of office of
19:15profit because of some post given by the
19:17UP government because that was nothing
19:19but the personal animosity with Gandhi
19:22family and then suddenly
19:24This chairperson of the national
19:26advisory council has also fallen under
19:29the category of uh office of profit.
19:33Then what happened in the meantime when
19:36she went again for elect being elected
19:39as MP from Ryber in the meantime
19:41government of India amended the
19:43constitution
19:45from the retrospective aspect and taken
19:48the office of profit outside it.
20:031983
20:05Sanja Gandhi.
20:08Rajiv Gandhi was reluctant to join the
20:10politics but after a gate drill of
20:12persuasion and pressure he accepted that
20:16in 1982 he became member of parliament
20:19and after that he became designated
20:21successor of throne
20:29then I think the part the family would
20:31have thought now it is incumbent on the
20:34part of Sonia Gandhi to get the
20:35citizenship
20:44She has given an affidavit. Sir, let me
20:46complete one sentence. Uh, no. She has
20:49given an affidavit that she was having a
20:51degree from Cambridge. And then what
20:54happened when investigation was done?
20:57They said, "No, no, it was a Cambridge C
21:00school English. She's speaking school on
21:02the Cambridge street. It was a
21:03typography error.
21:122004. Sir just four instances
21:162004 she has sacrificed the post of
21:19prime ministership but we all remember
21:21in April 1999 after the fall of Waj
21:25government by just one vote Sonia G came
21:27out of and in front of Rashadi Bhan her
21:30bite is available we are having 272. So
21:33she was having all the aspiration to
21:35become the prime minister and
21:37subsequently as it was projected by the
21:39congressman that she denounced the power
21:42but she became cabinet minister and the
21:44rank of cabinet minister under the prime
21:46minister
21:49cabinet minister. So this is the history
21:51of congress party
21:53nothing new about it.
21:55>> We know it. It is not a history sir. One
21:58thing you have to tell me
21:59>> this is one of the five instances.
22:01>> No no no. July 25th, 2026, Justice Gome
22:05said, "Why are you bringing this 50-y
22:07old case before me? This is a
22:10limitations case." He said it. This no
22:13law in the books today will allow this
22:17case because they give another
22:19limitation. Why have you taken up such a
22:22case? Why 1984 case have been reopened
22:26or not? Couldn't you find anything?
22:32It's not the BJP that has taken up. It's
22:34it's it's the court which has taken up
22:36Polaro. It's the court which has
22:38>> shown us some regard. You should have
22:39shown us some regard that into this.
22:42>> No, no, listen just because it's it's
22:45important that I mention the court's the
22:47court's reasons of why it has ordered a
22:51reopening of the case. You know, uh let
22:53me just just quickly read it.
22:55>> Yeah. The court's concern was primarily
22:57with the manner in which the magistrate
22:59dealt with the complaint. Right. The
23:02special judge Vishal Gogna has described
23:05the earlier order as non-speaking. The
23:08sessions court the magistrate had not
23:11the court has said that the magistrate
23:13had not properly examined the
23:15allegations disclosed whether they were
23:18they constituted a cognisable offense or
23:20not. Instead had focused on the issue of
23:23citizenship. You know Sonia Gandhi did
23:26become citizen in 1983 but how come her
23:30name was in the electoral role in 1980
23:33that's the issue which the court or the
23:35magistrate's court did not look into and
23:37that's why this has been reopened now
23:40also it's a case of double geoperty
23:42because as I saw through the facts 1980
23:45her name is there in the list 1982 it
23:49gets removed 1983 it comes back again
23:52now the catch is Sonia Gandhi becomes
23:56citizen of the country on April 30th of
23:591983 Pularo
24:02and Ratnakatripati but the cut off date
24:06for that year's electoral role revision
24:09was January 1, 1983 which means still
24:13her name and the electoral roles came in
24:15even before she became citizen second
24:17time also and that's where the double
24:21geop party is and that's something with
24:23the Congress party and the Gandhi family
24:25has to explain.
24:26>> What what brilliantly put what is the
24:28court asking? Priyanka uh and and
24:32Abasar,
24:34what is the court asking? First, let us
24:36make it very clear that Sonia Gandhi's
24:39lawyer has been given the opportunity to
24:41argue. During the arguments, the judge
24:44asks Sonia Gandhi's lawyer, "How will
24:47you bypass the issue that Sonia Gandhi
24:52became a voter prior to becoming a
24:54citizen in 1983?" You cannot avoid that
24:58question.
24:59>> Yeah,
25:00>> this is the worst case of nepotism if
25:03true. And the critical point is the
25:06court did not itself order an FIR but it
25:09held that the power to consider such a
25:12request under section 1753 of the
25:14Parhyan Sanita rests with the
25:16magistrate. The magistrate must now pass
25:18a reasoned speaking order after hearing
25:20the complainant and the Delhi police. So
25:24this is a very wellargued case. You
25:25can't say Sonia Gandhi did not get a
25:27chance. The beauty of our system is we
25:30give a chance to everyone.
25:32But look at the seriousness of the
25:34matter. Italian citizen
25:37puts her name in the electoral roles
25:39>> twice. Twice.
25:42And let me tell you, I don't want to
25:45scare anyone, but section 337 of the BNS
25:49deals specifically with forgery of court
25:51records, public registers or government
25:52issued identity documents. And the bail
25:55status is nonvailable. So let's look at
25:57the seriousness of this also. Right?
25:59>> No, no, no, no, no. Don't get excited.
26:01This
26:02One small point.
26:03>> So you know what forgery means?
26:06>> No. See, it can't be.
26:07>> You know what forgery potentially means?
26:09>> Transferred. Criminal liability can't be
26:11transferred. She has nothing to do with
26:13it.
26:16Priyanka she's his argument is Sonia
26:18Gandhi can go and say my sec my my my
26:23mother mother-in-law was prime minister.
26:25Her secretary put my name did not ask
26:26me. The question is did she reap the
26:28benefits of having her name in the
26:30electoral loss? A B did she vote?
26:33Priyanka.
26:38>> Good evening to everyone and Bakup.
26:39There are certain legal as well as
26:42factual issues that I see in this
26:44debate. I mean, leave them aside. I'm
26:47saying if there was a fraud committed
26:48and if the case is opened after 46 years
26:50and there's an anomaly, it should be
26:52tested. Not an issue. But then we have
26:54to compare what the current BJP
26:55government has done with the laws. You
26:57see the election commissioner and the
26:58chief election commissioner. Now I have
27:00complete immunity from criminal and
27:02civil laws.
27:10They are not liable for anything. This
27:12is a very serious anomaly I would call
27:15it because you know maybe 50 years later
27:17you could implicate Ganesh Kumar in the
27:20criminal offenses. Anil Masi protect
27:22maybe 50 years later somebody could wake
27:24up and put a case on Ganesh Kumar and
27:27then he should be punished. But BJP has
27:29given complete immunity to that. I don't
27:31agree with that. So you see we're
27:33talking about an era where where it was
27:35no voters should be left behind to an
27:37era where most voters should be
27:40opposition votes should be deleted from
27:41the electoral list. 13 cr votes have
27:44been deleted. I think these are very
27:45pressing issue. I also think that BJP is
27:47trying to change the narrative because
27:50you know this issue does not connect
27:51with the Gen Z. We tell the BJP even if
27:53it's a good issue even if you know the
27:55even if it passes all the legal and all
27:57the factual
27:59difficulties obstacles that will come in
28:01this case and the magistrate has to pass
28:02a reasoned order at best which is a very
28:04normal routine thing sometimes it so
28:06happens that the orders are not speaking
28:08and the matters are remanded back and
28:09they have to pass a speaking order and
28:11they might again he might again dismiss
28:12this that is a very big possibility
28:14because there are many legal and fact
28:16I'm repeating this because I cannot say
28:18this enough that there are many legal
28:20and factual issues in this
28:20>> so you supporting Sonia Gandhi. What is
28:23important is no no I'm not I'm saying if
28:27there's a fraud committed I'm very glad
28:28that the case is over taken up after 46
28:30years but I'm saying that similarly
28:34>> you are saying that you are saying that
28:35irrespective of the facts of the case
28:37even if Sonia Gandhi was Italian when
28:39her name was in the electoral roles this
28:41issue is not important because Jenzi
28:43will not uh it won't matter to Jenzi
28:46>> so you are saying Jenzi does not care if
28:48an Italian votes in India
28:50>> what I'm saying you know you know very
28:51well what I've said
28:52>> or is qualified I am saying they're
28:53trying to digress the issue through
28:55this. I've I know
28:56>> digress from what?
28:57>> No, I've not spoken so simply.
29:01There's so many pressing issues.
29:04It's still burning. It's been more than
29:05two years. For example,
29:16>> I don't know if you're smarter than
29:17this. You're smarter than this and you
29:19know, so I'm just making a point. I am
29:22making a point.
29:23>> What? What? What? Tell me.
29:24>> Yes. I'm making a point that I am I am
29:27very happy about the fact I'm very happy
29:29about the fact that a fraud can be
29:31investigated after 50 years. But BJP has
29:34removed this provision from the existing
29:36laws and Ganesh Kumar's fraud will will
29:40go unpunished. That is what that is the
29:42point.
29:42>> I'll let Sudan respond. Imagine if
29:44>> I I I'll let
29:46>> any example of Ganesh Kumar putting a
29:48foreign national in the voters list.
29:50>> If there was if he want then we should
29:52put it out. If there is a case of Ganesh
29:54Kumar
29:54>> there was a Brazilian model.
29:55>> So Matthew Matthew Vandai should come
29:57out of come out of jail and vote in
29:59Chandi
30:02and you will be okay with it.
30:04>> Arnavu
30:06is on the debate. I think he wants to
30:07make a comeback
30:11as as far as
30:17as far as the present election
30:18commission of India and the electoral
30:20process of India is concerned to the
30:23utmost discomfort of our opponents they
30:26used to cherish and chest thumping on
30:28the issue of US President Trump. Now
30:31Trump had said that the Indian electoral
30:33system is very significant and very
30:35robust and the US should try to adopt
30:38this even they were communicating with
30:39the election commission of India because
30:41you were giving legitimacy to Trump. So
30:44now and as far as these type of logics
30:46which were given
30:53Gandhi 1983
30:56citizenship because she was having in
30:59mind smash patriarchy
31:01I will not like to follow my husband's
31:04house. Why I should follow the husband's
31:07country citizenship? I will not follow
31:10the patriarchy. She might be having
31:12something in her mind.
31:15That's why she took 15 years to come out
31:17of those things and entered into the
31:20patriarchy. And she didn't only change
31:23her surname, she changed the first name
31:25also.
31:28But as far as the technical aspect is
31:30concerned, it is very clear and serious
31:34that the prime minister of India, their
31:38own family was having an illegal
31:41unauthorized voter list.
31:47Foreign voters
31:56victory margin
32:03three times more than Rahul Gandhi's
32:05margin. Why? Because Assam CMT Vishu
32:08Sharma has said that Dubir is like a
32:10mini Bangladesh which has seen the
32:12biggest demographic change in the last
32:15couple of decades because of the foreign
32:17infiltrators and 2024 Congress leaders
32:21have written article in Bangladeshi
32:23newspaper Daily Star that Modi has to
32:25go. Why they were writing to Bangladeshi
32:28newspaper foreign
32:31the Congress party established by a
32:33foreigner Alen October for first 15
32:36years there were several Congress
32:38presidents who were foreigners like
32:40Alfred Robe William Venburn George
32:43Cartel and and several others so now
32:46it's very simple they can have a
32:49foreigner can have the citizenship
32:51foreign foreigner was having the
32:52presidentship and even they are getting
32:54the biggest
32:56victory margin from that area which is
32:58under serious suspicion that how many
33:01foreigners and foreign voters are there
33:04I don't think that in the present
33:06context of the Brazilian model
33:08>> the Brazilian model example
33:11>> Abhishek what is the the Brazilian model
33:14example is raised by Priyanka
33:16>> in that case arguing on vote chory the
33:19Congress party says that a Brazilian
33:21model's name is in the electoral roles
33:24This was Rahul Gandhi said on stage, how
33:26can a Brazilian be in the electoral
33:28roles
33:30equally? It can be argued.
33:34How did an Italian get into the
33:35electoral roles?
33:43But no one was punished.
33:48This is going to get very interesting.
33:49Yeah. Pardon me.
33:51>> Yeah. On the here we are talking about a
33:54person who has been a de facto prime
33:57minister of this country for 10 years
34:00and this is a very serious crime she had
34:03committed. See for any person to get
34:06enrolled as a voter in this country they
34:09have to fill a form called as form six.
34:14This has been there right from 1950 when
34:17election commission got into existence.
34:20>> In form six, in form six or it is
34:24required for a person who wants to
34:26enroll as a voter to declare that he or
34:30she is a citizen of India. You have a
34:33column in form six where you have to
34:35declare that I am a citizen of India and
34:38you have to sign. It is only after you
34:41declare that you are a citizen of India
34:44and you sign on the form six that you
34:46are enrolled as a voter in this country.
34:49So if Sonia Gandhi's name appeared in
34:53voter number 388 of polling station 145
34:58then it is only after she had signed
35:00this form six. It is not that any
35:02secretary can fill her name and you know
35:05get it into the voter list. So Sonia
35:08Gandhi deliberately gave a false
35:11declaration on form six and she is
35:13punishable today. She has to be punished
35:17as per the section 31 of representation
35:19of people's act 1950. She is punishable
35:23as per BNS. She is punishable because
35:26she had given a false declaration on
35:29form six. The issues the case is very
35:32simple here. So Sonia Gandhi cannot
35:35escape today because she had given a
35:38false declaration not once but twice. In
35:401980 February 1983 her name again
35:43appeared in voter number 236 of polling
35:46station 140 of the Tuklra booth. So it
35:49is not once but twice that she had given
35:52a false declaration even before becoming
35:54a citizen of India. How can she sign
35:57this form six stating that she is a
35:59citizen of India?
36:02So it is a very grave crime that Sonia
36:03Gandhi had committed and she has to be
36:05punished and all these things will come
36:07out in the open. And the second thing is
36:10Ornab for 15 years she never wanted to
36:14be a
36:15>> the BJP has been in been in power for 12
36:17years
36:19>> or more than 12 years. The why have you
36:21woken up now? No see it is now the court
36:26now which has you know given this these
36:28instructions and which has asked to
36:30reopen this case and now this has case
36:32has come out in the open and it has to
36:35be investigated now
36:36>> and all these facts
36:38>> okay come out in the open and she has to
36:40be punished
36:40>> now now guys this is going to get
36:42controversial right I find I'm asking
36:44tonight have two versus four with two
36:47debaters on one side Sudhanu and Patabir
36:50Kumari have they won the debate
36:52Abbas in terms of facts not not bland
36:56denials they come armed with facts today
36:59what counter do you have if any of your
37:02of the of the supreme leader of your
37:04alliance party
37:06>> well Mr. Gowami a fresh hearing is not a
37:10conviction it's not even an FIR that has
37:12been ordered by the honorable court
37:14there has been no evidence that the
37:16court has confirmed that Mrs. Sonia
37:18Gandhi has forged any document. The
37:20question here is
37:21>> knowing that she's a public figure, why
37:23is the Congress not issuing a denial?
37:25>> 17 years.
37:26>> Congress is saying,
37:27>> Congress is saying wait. Congress is
37:29saying it's a stale case. It is not
37:33denying. It is not denying. Why is it
37:36not denying?
37:37>> No, no. I am saying that the Bharti
37:39Jantaa party has been in power for more
37:41than 17 and a half years. Batal G was
37:44their prime minister for 5 years, 13
37:46months, 30 days. Then 12 12 and a half
37:48year Mr. Modi has been the prime
37:50minister of India. For so long they
37:52couldn't provide evidence to the court
37:54that Mrs. Sona Gandhi could be
37:56convicted. The question is there has
37:58been no evidence. Where is the original
38:00application of form six through which
38:03allegedly Mrs. Sona Gandhi has become
38:05the voter in 1980. Where is the
38:07evidence? The court can decide the
38:09matter based on the evidence which have
38:11been provided to court.
38:13The next stage abas that's the next
38:16stage abas that stage can come if an
38:19investigation is ordered and FIR is
38:21registered which has not happened yet
38:23the court could come for 43 years 43
38:27years a person has been citizen of this
38:29country she's almost 80 now 43 years you
38:33couldn't find an FIR now in 26 you are
38:36dis then as a corerary you should not be
38:39objecting if an F is filed now difficult
38:42then as a corary you should not be
38:43objecting if if an F is filed now the
38:46law is not applicable and there is a
38:48political argument you know the
38:50Brazilian model did not come and vote
38:52the Brazilian model did not by herself
38:55put her name or it was not a it was
38:59a picture there and it was flagged it
39:03was flagged by the Hana chief electoral
39:06officer that the Congress party which is
39:08making a press conference of it did not
39:10bring it to the notice when they could
39:12have democrat No, no, no. When when
39:13Rahul Gandhi was talking about electoral
39:16malpractice, he said, "How is a
39:18Brazilian model in the electoral list,
39:21she's a Brazilian model
39:22>> and she was not
39:24Sonia Gandhi was
39:25>> Sonia Gandhi was an Italian citizen? How
39:28is her name if that no you are now you
39:31can't say you object to Brazilians but
39:33you're okay to Italians?"
39:36The logic is
39:38Brazilians cannot be but Italians can
39:41be.
39:42It is up to the court to decide who the
39:44court is going. So let the court let the
39:46court decide. Don't deny we we can't do
39:48TV is on the debate. Sudanchu Sudanchu
39:52this is this is hugely controvers
39:56which the our opponents are giving.
40:00It's a very amusing logics they are
40:02trying to give. He's saying that where
40:04is the original form six? The matter is
40:07whenever it will be investigated then
40:09the government will have to produce the
40:11record as has been said. But if he are
40:13saying that the original form six is not
40:15avail not available then it becomes a
40:18more severe issue that even without form
40:21six somebody has become the voter. What
40:24type of logic you are trying to give and
40:27>> instead of making your case strong you
40:29are further hitting on your own leg by
40:32giving this
40:34>> allegation on somebody
40:35>> who was the chidar in 1980 who was the
40:38chidar in 1980 using that logic
40:42>> to present in front of the court
40:51was never reluctant in assuming any
40:53political place here because she took 15
40:56years to acquire the citizenship
41:00December 1997
41:03otherwise politics
41:06after the sad demise of Rajiv Gandhi
41:08instead of she would have become the
41:10prime minister.
41:18She was never interested. First not
41:21interested in becoming the Indian
41:22citizen. Then she was not interested in
41:25assuming the leadership of Congress
41:26party. Then she was not interested and
41:28in what circumstances
41:31she decided to enter into politics in
41:33December 1997. And one more thing I
41:36would say in what circumstances
41:39that during the budget session of 1999
41:42after government has passed through the
41:44budget session the no confidence was
41:46brought because during budget session
41:48you can easily put down the government
41:50by any uh financial bill but after all
41:53financial bills were clear there are so
41:55many things that may come after 10 15
41:57years when some declassified documents
41:59will come then I think so many things
42:01may erupt. What is on the page is very
42:04clear that there was not only reluctance
42:07but there was some const going on at the
42:11time and it has to be upon by the court
42:14and I pressure
42:18and I coming under pressure from callers
42:20who saying
42:28the punishment up to seven years it's
42:31You first of
42:46person
43:03And now the year is celebrating the
43:05leadership of mine
43:09youth parliamentarians.
43:22I would like to state on record one
43:24minute that that smiti is a selfmade
43:28self-made professional. She is one of
43:31the leading leading entrepreneurs in the
43:34media sector of the country. She is also
43:37she has also been a very well- reggarded
43:39well- reggarded actor and you are
43:42jealous of her because unlike
43:54Priyanka
43:58degree.
44:3511 close people do not know whether they
44:38are citizen of India or not because of
44:41Ganesh Kumar because of your party and
44:44you are saying Gandhi 1980 1983
45:06There are 11 cr people who are either
45:10immigrants or illegal people here. So
45:14when are you throwing them backation?
45:17>> Do we have time? How can I answer?
45:20We have one minute. One minute on the
45:21debate. Two calls.
45:24They do not know what
45:42That we can understand as far as the
45:44technical aspect is concerned.
46:10You are allowed to argue not to heckle.
46:15You used to be a very civilized man
46:16earlier. Thank you.
46:28Russian cardific
46:40please. Audio control
46:46in Kerala. The election has happened and
46:49Shashi Tarur on record had said that the
46:52sir has helped Congress in Kerala
46:54because the vogus voters which has been
46:57entered into the voter list by the
46:59communist party has been deleted
47:03municipal corporation election
47:06elections it was conducted by the Kerala
47:09government by the Kerala state election
47:11commission we won and have you found any
47:15difference in the electoral roles which
47:17you used in the municipal corporation as
47:20well as it was used in the lockab
47:24then how you are blaming first and last
47:26caller Girish Mishra
47:28>> Hyderabad
47:29Girish quickly 10 seconds
47:31>> can I go ahead can I go ahead
47:32>> 10 seconds go ahead do it I feel very
47:35pity about this Congress and their
47:37supporters just because he said old
47:40chory the leader of opposition always
47:43said old jury where is his old from
47:46where did it Hey, no more time. Okay,
47:48Girish, Girish, this big this big this
47:50this is controversial. I think it will
47:52become bigger. Abhishek, I thank you for
47:54joining the segment tonight at 9:00.
47:56Priyanka, everyone, Abbas, Ratakar Gi,
47:58Pulara, Patabi and Sudan Chutradi, of
48:01course, thank you very much. Ladies and
48:03gentlemen, this is a current court case,
48:05but I always believe that cases may be
48:08in court, but there's also a court of
48:11public opinion, isn't there? I'll see
48:13you soon. Good night and goodbye.
48:35Gina
48:36refreshing swad

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