YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Death Investigator: What Dead Bodies Reveal About Murder | Barbara Butcher | FO575 Raj Shamani

Death Investigator: What Dead Bodies Reveal About Murder | Barbara Butcher | FO575 Raj Shamani — Transcript

by Raj Shamani · 20,796 words · 3,668 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00A man [music] who had a wife he was
0:02crazy about, but he was wildly jealous.
0:05And one day they were coming into the
0:06apartment building and there was a
0:08building manager. And she looked at him
0:10and said, "Oh, hello." And they went
0:12into the house and he went insane. He
0:14started screaming. He thought she was
0:16flirting. And so
0:18he stabbed her [screaming] so many times
0:21that there was blood on the ceiling, the
0:23walls, the floors. Yeah.
0:26He had stabbed her, I don't know, 80
0:28times.
0:30There was nothing left to stab.
0:32>> Can a dead body move or like make sound?
0:35>> It's happened to me.
0:36>> Really?
0:37>> Yeah. Because even after they're dead,
0:39they still hold those gases inside them.
0:42Now, there's a story that there was a
0:43rookie cop and they said to him, um, you
0:46know, you're going to sit and guard this
0:47body. And he's sitting there and he's
0:49very afraid. And then, as the body
0:52jerked a little,
0:54it moved and then it made a sound like
1:00He got so frightened that he shot it
1:03twice.
1:06>> Tell me the moment you walk into a death
1:08scene, what do you first look at?
1:10>> I don't look at the body first. I stand
1:13at the doorway and I take in the
1:15totality of the scene. Now I'll start
1:18examining the body. I'll look for a stab
1:20wound or a gunshot wound. I'll look
1:22under the fingernails and see is there
1:24flesh or hair or blood because someone
1:26was fighting for their life. Now, when a
1:29dead person lays on the floor like this,
1:31on their back, the blood settles down
1:34through gravity. But, [music] if I go in
1:35there and see that the his back is all
1:37purple and yet his left side has it's
1:40like red blood, I know he was originally
1:43on his side and then [music] they when
1:45he died and then they put him on his
1:46back. I know when a body's been moved.
1:50>> There's no accurate specific way to
1:52actually find out what time a person
1:54died.
1:55>> Not unless somebody saw it. You know, in
1:57movies you just see that somebody would
1:58come out and they tell that this person
2:01died XYZ time.
2:02>> Lie. It's a lie.
2:05>> How do killers fool?
2:06>> Mhm, they can fool us.
2:08>> Tell me three smartest way that somebody
2:10has fooled you.
2:12>> Now, then I'd have to kill you because
2:14you'd know the secrets.
2:20>> What's the weirdest object that you've
2:22seen that somebody has used for killing?
2:26>> Well,
2:27>> What are the biggest mistakes murderers
2:29make?
2:30>> Thinking that they won't get caught.
2:33>> You've experienced thousands of deaths.
2:35What do you think? What's the best way
2:37to die?
2:38>> In your sleep.
2:39Absolutely.
2:42>> Are there signs that somebody will turn
2:44into a killer?
2:47I'm excited. I'm nervous. I'm a little
2:50bit scared.
2:57I have a small favor to ask you. I need
2:59you to subscribe to our channel. The
3:01more subscribers we have, the better and
3:04bigger guests we can bring and provide
3:06you more value through these
3:08conversations. And the full audio
3:10experience of this show is also
3:12available on Spotify where you can
3:14follow us and listen to the new episodes
3:16as well. You know that feeling when you
3:18need to send just one small thing to a
3:20customer or another business?
3:23That's when you realize how hard it is
3:25to find a reliable transport partner.
3:27And most transport options charge you
3:30way too much for small goods. That's why
3:33I use Porter. Their two-wheelers can
3:35carry up to 20 kg. And for things that
3:38need a little more space and care,
3:40Porter scooter is available with the
3:42same 20 kg capacity.
3:44The best part is that it's affordable
3:47and there's no negotiating. What you see
3:49on the app is exactly what you pay. So,
3:52whatever you need to send, Porter makes
3:54it simple and stress-free. To know more
3:57about our title sponsor, Porter, and
3:59their services, check out the link in
4:00the description below.
4:06And I'm very fascinated to do something
4:07like this with you because I've never
4:09done
4:10I've never met a death investigator.
4:14>> [laughter]
4:15>> I'm [gasps]
4:16I'm excited. I'm nervous.
4:18>> Don't be nervous.
4:19>> I'm a little bit scared.
4:21>> Really?
4:21>> Yeah.
4:22>> Why?
4:22>> I don't know. I just
4:24everything you will say, I'll have
4:26visuals in my head.
4:28>> Yeah.
4:29Yeah.
4:29>> That scares me.
4:32>> Well,
4:34I can assure you of one thing.
4:37The safest people in the world are dead
4:39people.
4:40They will not hurt you in any way.
4:43However, you're right. Seeing some of
4:45the ways they die is absolutely
4:47horrible.
4:48>> So, I was going through your work, okay,
4:51and I found out that
4:53you've investigated more than 5,500
4:55deaths.
4:56>> That's right.
4:57>> You've spent two decades reading bodies
5:00and crime scenes.
5:02>> Yeah.
5:02>> And you've seen suicide, murders,
5:05accidents, personal revenge, disasters
5:08up close.
5:10>> I have.
5:11>> And then you say that
5:13after going through all this work,
5:15you've realized that death tells you the
5:17stories which living beings can't.
5:20>> That's right.
5:21>> Welcome on figuring out Barbara Butcher.
5:24>> [laughter]
5:25>> Thank you so much. I am pleased to be
5:28here.
5:28>> It's my pleasure. If someone's watching
5:30you for the first time and they have no
5:31clue what you do.
5:33>> Okay, I'll tell you.
5:34>> So, tell them what is death investigator
5:37and what will people learn by the end of
5:40this podcast.
5:41>> Okay.
5:43A death investigator, um,
5:45in the United States, anyway,
5:47we have a we have two systems, coroner
5:50system and medical examiner system. And
5:53each of those systems is charged with
5:56investigating deaths, in particular
5:59violent deaths, suicides, accidents,
6:02things like that. And homicides, of
6:04course. We also have to look at natural
6:07deaths. So, if an elderly woman dies
6:10alone in her apartment, we have to go
6:12make sure that nothing bad happened.
6:15So, what's the purpose of that? Well,
6:18for one thing, it's for justice.
6:20>> Mhm.
6:20>> So, if someone is murdered,
6:24we want to know who did it and why and
6:27so that we can catch them.
6:29We want to prevent that person from
6:31committing any more homicides.
6:34So,
6:36you would think, oh, well, why don't you
6:38just do an autopsy? The forensic
6:40pathologist does an autopsy and in
6:43looking at that body, they see the cause
6:46of death. So, suppose the man on the
6:48table has a gunshot wound to the head.
6:51Fine, cause of death is gunshot wound,
6:53but what is the manner? Was it a
6:55homicide, a suicide, or an accident?
6:58That's my job.
7:00>> Mhm.
7:00>> The death investigator goes to the scene
7:03and takes in the entire context.
7:07What is the room like? What is his life
7:09like? Where is the evidence? Is there
7:11blood spatter on walls? Are there bullet
7:14marks on the ceiling? And what does the
7:16body tell me? We could get into that
7:18more deeply later.
7:20But,
7:21everything I'm doing there is to find
7:24out how did this death arise?
7:27So,
7:28if I go into a room,
7:31as I have, and seen a young woman
7:33clutching an automatic weapon and
7:35there's a close-contact
7:37gunshot wound to her head with abrasion
7:40ring, the gunpowder into the wound. I
7:43know it's close contact
7:46and
7:47if I get a good story from her friends
7:50or neighbors like, "Oh my god, I tried
7:52to stop her."
7:54Then I know it's likely a suicide. Now,
7:57this one case I'm thinking of was
7:59terrible.
8:00Um a young woman said to her friend,
8:02"I'm going to kill myself. I can't stand
8:05it anymore."
8:06Her boyfriend left and she was
8:07heartbroken.
8:10So, the friend said, "Give me that gun."
8:12And took it away from her and the girl
8:14said, "No, no, give it back to me. I
8:16promise I won't do it."
8:18So,
8:20the woman, her friend, pulled out the
8:23chamber and gave it back to her. She
8:27didn't realize there was one round of
8:29ammunition still in the barrel.
8:33So, when the girl took it,
8:35there was still a bullet and she shot
8:37herself in the head.
8:39Now, that's a clear suicide. I have an
8:41upset witness. I have everything I need
8:43to see right in front of me.
8:46But then,
8:48I go to another case out on [snorts]
8:50Houston Street in New York.
8:52And there's a group of young men, 17, 18
8:55years old and they're shaking. They're
8:57so frightened and their friend lies dead
8:59on the ground in the middle of the
9:00avenue.
9:02And they said that he had just gotten a
9:06new gun, his very first gun. It was a
9:08Saturday night special, which is like a
9:11.32 revolver, very cheap, flimsy.
9:15And that morning he was showing them
9:18tricks like a cowboy. He was spinning
9:21the gun
9:22on his finger and it hit the he it flew
9:25off, hit the ground
9:27and shot him straight between the eyes.
9:30So, his first shot was his best shot and
9:34his last shot.
9:36Now, can you imagine
9:38a thing like that, how they could
9:39happen? So, it was an accident. Now, of
9:42course, we don't really believe that
9:44right from the beginning.
9:45We think, "No, they're just making this
9:47story up."
9:48But, I saw on the pavement, on the
9:50sidewalk, a little piece of concrete
9:53that was chipped and the little dust of
9:56it on the on the hammer.
9:58So, I knew the gun had hit just that
10:01way. And his friends were were crying
10:03and shaking. They couldn't make this
10:05story up.
10:07Um so, I said, "This is definitely an
10:09accident." And then, about 2 hours
10:11later, a guy came by, a truck driver,
10:14and said, "I was going to work this
10:15morning, and I saw this kid playing with
10:17the gun." So, that cemented it.
10:21But, if it's a homicide, now I have to
10:23get a whole 'nother set of
10:26of evidence, of facts, of um
10:30um
10:32Yeah, now I'm not just looking to see
10:35what is the manner of death, I'm looking
10:37to see who did it, when did they do it,
10:39why did they do it. And I'll see that in
10:42the scene and in the body.
10:44So,
10:45what I do, I investigate the scene, I
10:47work with the police closely,
10:49but it's an independent investigation,
10:51cuz we might have differences sometimes.
10:53You know, they say, "No, that's not a
10:54murder, Barbara. Come on, come on."
10:56>> [laughter]
10:58>> Yes, it is.
11:00So,
11:01uh
11:02once I gather all that evidence and do
11:04all my photographs of the scene, my
11:06measurements,
11:07I write a report and take it to the
11:10forensic pathologist who's going to do
11:12the autopsy the next day. Then, they're
11:15now doing an informed autopsy. They say,
11:18"Oh, yeah, gunshot wound, manner of
11:20death, homicide."
11:22And then, we you know, we give the
11:23police all the information we've
11:25gathered, so that they can better
11:27investigate and find the person.
11:30That's my job.
11:32>> It's
11:34it can be fascinating and it can be very
11:36daunting.
11:37>> Yes, absolutely.
11:40>> Depends on what kind of perspective
11:41you're looking at from. But, tell me the
11:43moment you walk into a death scene.
11:46>> Okay.
11:48>> What do you first look at?
11:50Like in the first 30 seconds
11:52>> Mhm.
11:52>> what is that you're trying to find out
11:56and where do you actually look at where
11:59which most of the world would actually
12:01ignore?
12:02>> It's a very good question.
12:04I don't look at the body first. In fact,
12:07I stand at the doorway, just inside, and
12:11I take in the totality of the scene, the
12:14feeling of the room, the zeitgeist, the
12:17atmosphere. I want to see what what kind
12:21of person is this, what kind of life,
12:23what kind of home.
12:24Like I said, I want to see how they
12:26live.
12:27And
12:28so taking in the entire scene and then
12:31I'll put on my booties and, you know,
12:33Tyvek covers and all that.
12:35And go around the perimeter, taking my
12:38photographs of everything all around.
12:42Then I zero in on the body. I do my
12:45photographs, the overalls, but I haven't
12:48touched it yet. What I wait to do is now
12:51crime scene, they're doing fingerprints
12:53and things like that.
12:55>> I say, "All right, guys, I'm ready." I
12:56bring them over. Now I'll start
12:58examining the body. I'll open the shirt
13:01and look for a stab wound or a gunshot
13:03wound. I'll look under the fingernails
13:05and see is there flesh or hair or blood
13:08because someone was fighting for their
13:10life.
13:11Um
13:12I will determine the time of death,
13:16which is an art as much as it is a
13:18science. You have the
13:20rigor mortis, the stiffening of the
13:23body.
13:24And that happens over a period of, oh,
13:27eight eight hours. The body becomes more
13:30and more stiff. First, the small
13:31muscles, like the jaw and fingers, then
13:34the larger muscles, like the legs.
13:37After about eight to 10 hours, that body
13:39is so rigid that if you lifted it up, it
13:43would not bend.
13:45So, if I see someone fully rigid like
13:48that,
13:49that's about eight hours ago.
13:51Now, I look at the lividity. That's the
13:53settling of the blood.
13:55When a dead person lays on the floor
13:58like this, on their back, the blood
14:00settles down through gravity.
14:03And it stays there for a while, and then
14:06after about eight to 10 hours, it
14:08becomes fixed. Like you can't move it.
14:11But, if I go in there and see that the
14:13his back is all purple,
14:16and yet his left side has it's like red
14:20blood,
14:21a little bit lighter, I know he was
14:24originally on his side and then they
14:26when he died and then they put him on
14:27his back. I know when a body's been
14:29moved. There is. So, now
14:32that takes a certain amount of time.
14:34Then I take the body temperature. The
14:36body loses about 1 and 1/2° of
14:40temperature every hour.
14:42Uh Fahrenheit. So,
14:44in a room of the average, oh, 70 72°,
14:49I take the temperature of the air, then
14:52the temperature of the body. Usually a
14:54rectal temperature is most accurate.
14:56>> [snorts]
14:57>> And now I divide. So, if the body
15:00started out roughly 98 and is now 90,
15:05that means they've lost 8° of
15:07temperature.
15:09Divide by 1.5.
15:11>> Mhm.
15:12>> That's each degree you lose is 1.5 per
15:14hour. And now I come out with What does
15:17that come out to? 5 6 hours, whatever
15:19the math is.
15:21So, is that enough? No.
15:23>> No.
15:23>> Because
15:26common sense. You have to have common
15:28sense. So, one day, I'm a brand new
15:31investigator,
15:33and I go into a a room where a elderly
15:36old old man has died, and his whole
15:38family is there, and they're so upset.
15:40He is the beloved patriarch of this
15:43family.
15:45And they're all crying, and I I said,
15:47"All right, I'm going to go examine
15:48him."
15:49And I did. And when I came out, they
15:51said, "Could you tell us what time he
15:53died? Because we'd like to have a
15:55special church service at that time." I
15:58said, "All right." And I went back in,
15:59and I just recalculated. Yes, yes, yes.
16:03All right. Three take away the seven,
16:04four times 18, you know. And I came out,
16:07and I said, "He died right around
16:09midnight."
16:10>> [snorts and laughter]
16:10>> "No. No, I spoke to him at midnight. I
16:13spoke to him at 12:30."
16:16And I was like, "Oh my god, I forgot the
16:18most important question. When was the
16:20last time anyone spoke to him alive or
16:23saw him alive?"
16:25Because these these calculations, they
16:28have great variability.
16:30>> Mhm.
16:30>> Great variability. It's a lot of
16:32interpretations. So,
16:34>> See?
16:35>> After that, I learned ask the right
16:37question.
16:39If there's no one to ask, you can also
16:40do things like look at the newspapers.
16:44If the newspapers are on the front of
16:46the house, not picked up yet, it says
16:48Saturday, Sunday,
16:50he probably died Friday.
16:52If he had food delivered, there's a
16:54receipt on it
16:55with the timestamp, right? So, you we
16:58use common sense.
17:00>> So, there's no accurate, specific way to
17:03actually find out what time a person
17:05died.
17:06>> Not unless somebody saw it.
17:08If we have it on videotape, yes. If
17:10someone saw it.
17:11>> Because in movies, you just see that
17:13hey, like somebody would come out, and
17:16they would tell that this person died
17:18XYZ time.
17:19>> That lie, it's a lie. That's where I get
17:21very irritated with some shows.
17:24Um
17:25some of the true crime shows, they they
17:27have a
17:28or even the fictional ones.
17:30They have a a medical examiner who shows
17:32up on the scene, a forensic pathologist.
17:35Well, first of all, what did she do?
17:37Leave the autopsy table to come to this
17:39death scene?
17:40What about her work? She has three cases
17:43to do.
17:44And she comes in and she looks at the
17:46body a couple of times and then she
17:48pokes her finger in something and says,
17:50"That looks like a 9-mm."
17:52What?
17:53What did What did you stick your finger
17:55in the hole and measure it?
17:57And then they say, uh yeah, dead about
18:00uh I'd say about 4:30-ish, 4:30 this
18:03afternoon.
18:05Why?
18:06Was there a bullet hole through his
18:07watch and it stopped at 4:30?
18:10Right. [laughter]
18:11>> [snorts]
18:12>> So, the the the shows get it all wrong.
18:15Now, my show, the death investigator,
18:17we're very very careful to do everything
18:20and explain everything accurately.
18:22There's no magic tricks.
18:24So,
18:26I've been thinking for years there must
18:28be a way to design an app
18:30>> Mhm.
18:30>> that will take body temperature, ambient
18:33temperature,
18:35pictures of the lividity, estimates of
18:37the and calculate it all and and says,
18:40you know, 11:45 a.m. You know,
18:43so far, nothing.
18:44>> Nothing. There's no like accurate
18:46formula.
18:46>> No, there isn't. It's
18:48>> It's a guess.
18:49>> It's a guess.
18:50>> How close can you be? Like, how close
18:52can you get to accurate time of death
18:54just by investigating?
18:56>> Just by using all those factors.
18:59>> And can you actually probably go to
19:02autopsy
19:04lab and take blood sample or tissue
19:06sample and then actually predict
19:09that time?
19:10>> they've tried.
19:11>> No.
19:11>> In fact, uh a lot of scientists and
19:14researchers have tried using the
19:15potassium levels of the eyeball. We draw
19:18the fluid out
19:20and estimate did the potassium shift
19:24into the cells into the fluid. No.
19:27>> Nothing works then.
19:27>> So, everything is an estimate and I
19:30never say anymore
19:32uh
19:332:00 p.m. I say sometime between noon
19:38maybe 4:00. I give you a 4-hour window.
19:41Yeah.
19:42>> And even that
19:44you know, can you can be fooled. Now,
19:46one thing that fools you is when cops
19:48come in and fooled around with things.
19:50So,
19:52sometimes I come into an apartment and
19:54it's freezing cold and I said, "Why is
19:56it so cold in here?" Oh, we opened all
19:58the windows because it smelled. I'm
20:00like, "Wait a minute, guys. How am I
20:02going to figure out body temperature
20:04now? You just ruined everything." And
20:06they're like, "Well, Barbara, it was hot
20:07in here so and smelly."
20:10>> [snorts]
20:10>> So, we have to be very careful with
20:12those things and that's one of the first
20:13questions I ask. What has changed since
20:16you got here between that time and my
20:18time?
20:19>> Mhm.
20:19>> And if they say, "Well, we opened the
20:21windows, we moved the body." Oh, no, no,
20:23no, no.
20:24>> Then the whole matter is gone.
20:26>> It's then it's all messed up.
20:28>> How do you make sure like
20:31to roll a body to investigate without
20:34even ruining it?
20:36>> Without ruining my evidence? It's not
20:38easy. Uh first of all, I don't want to
20:40strip the clothes off cuz sometimes
20:43there is evidence on the clothing you
20:45don't want to lose.
20:46For instance, I had a man who was shot
20:49on the street
20:51and
20:53the guy who shot him said, "No, he was
20:55running toward me and I shot him."
20:59And then when I look at his jacket, the
21:01collar has a little bit of a
21:04bullet the bullet came through the
21:06jacket. But then I look on his arm,
21:10there's a bullet hole here.
21:12I'm like, wait a second. Let me line
21:14these up.
21:15>> Mhm.
21:16>> And here's what happened.
21:18>> He was shot.
21:19>> He was going like this. It went through
21:21here, through here, past the collar and
21:24into his neck. And I could line it up
21:26perfectly. So no, he wasn't coming at
21:28you. He was going like this. Please, no.
21:30>> Mhm.
21:31>> Right? So
21:33So that's very important. Don't mess up
21:35your evidence. Now, I do need to see
21:38their back, obviously. So I'm careful
21:40not to mess up the clothes. Um I'm also
21:43careful about bullets that might pop
21:45out.
21:46>> Mhm.
21:46>> Sometimes you turn a body and there's a
21:49bullet in the hole in the front and at
21:52the back it's just at the edge of the
21:54skin and you turn it over and it pops
21:56out. That's not good.
21:58Um so when I turn it, it's just very,
22:02very gently. And I don't remove the
22:05clothes. I just peek up underneath. When
22:07we get them in the autopsy room, I can
22:09tell a lot more.
22:11But so why would I want to see the
22:13gunshot hole? Why do I need to see that?
22:16Well, if you think about the physics of
22:19bullets, ballistics,
22:21when the bullet goes through the flesh,
22:24it leaves a little abrasion ring. You
22:27know, the skin stretches inwards, very
22:29flexible. So as the bullet goes in, it
22:32pulls the skin and makes a little
22:34abrasion, right? A little ring.
22:37Now, if it's a straight-on shot, it'll
22:40be perfectly circular.
22:42If the person is shot from up here,
22:45as they're standing,
22:47it's going to have an angle where the
22:50abrasion ring will be greater at the top
22:52or at the bottom, meaning shot from
22:54below, shot from above, or shot from the
22:57side.
22:58So if you're really careful with this
23:01and you you look for the bullet impact
23:03marks on the walls, I can tell you where
23:06the shooter was standing.
23:08And I can tell you the position of the
23:10victim.
23:11But it's very important to know where
23:12was that shooter.
23:14If they were right up close, then I'll
23:16see gunpowder in the wound. I'll see the
23:20the fouling, which is the greasy smoke
23:23that comes out of the barrel.
23:25So, if I see the little stipples of
23:28gunpowder burned into the face,
23:30I know it was about oh, maybe 8 in, 10
23:33in,
23:34something like that. Any further, and it
23:36falls to the ground.
23:37But now, if I see I don't see any
23:40stippling gunpowder, but I see the
23:42greasy smoke around it, I know they were
23:45standing back just a little, but they
23:47were still quite close.
23:49So, I can tell you so many things just
23:52by looking at that wound.
23:54>> Interesting. I want you to demonstrate
23:56on me.
23:58How can you roll a body without actually
24:00disturbing the evidence? Can you do that
24:02little body demonstration? I'll just lay
24:04down.
24:04>> Now, if a person is is stiff, it's
24:07easier. But see, that's why I tell you,
24:09be dead weight, totally relaxed. Okay,
24:11dead weight, nice and easy, just breathe
24:14deeply.
24:15So, what I do, in order to turn a person
24:17over,
24:18>> [snorts]
24:19>> carefully place this leg over that one.
24:22Okay?
24:23Then,
24:25this arm at the shoulder,
24:28just like that. Now, all I have to do,
24:31two fingers under the hips and the
24:33shoulder,
24:34>> [clears throat]
24:35>> and he rolls right over. You see, I do
24:37it gently, so that there's no evidence
24:39lost. I don't move any clothing,
24:41anything like that.
24:43Goes right over. Now, I'll examine here,
24:46under the shirt. Perhaps I'll check the
24:48legs if there's any trauma.
24:50But it's easy, right? So, even a small
24:52woman can roll over a heavy man.
24:55>> There's this question, because you said
24:56someone
24:58you can look at a bullet mark and find
25:01out whether it was hit from close or
25:03far, right? Yeah. Can you also tell
25:06the relationship or the kind of
25:11motive behind death just by the distance
25:14of the shoot?
25:19>> To a certain extent, yes. So if it's a
25:23contact wound,
25:25then we know you know either suicide or
25:28or execution style. You come up to
25:31someone, put the gun against their head,
25:33you're going to get everything I just
25:35spoke about but the gunpowder will be
25:37inside the wound and there'll be like a
25:39stamp
25:41like
25:42if a gun barrel has a little notch at
25:44the top, I'll see that because the bang
25:48hits the skin.
25:50Now I know what it was and this happened
25:52in a case I did on my show the Carnegie
25:54Deli massacre.
25:56The the guy who was arrested said, "Oh
25:58no, it went off accidentally. I was
26:01holding the gun
26:03and I was shaking so bad and I I got
26:05nervous and it went off." No, it didn't
26:07you lying dog.
26:09I know because what I see on the head, I
26:13see the contact. You were perfectly
26:15steady. So don't cry to me.
26:18I'm very harsh about these things.
26:20>> [laughter]
26:22>> But have you ever seen that someone
26:24who's very close and they're closely
26:26related?
26:28Do they shoot from close or do they
26:30shoot from far?
26:31Because if sometime it's if it's a
26:33revenge or like a business killing or
26:35like a drug killing, they usually it's
26:36very close. It's not from far away
26:38because they want to make sure that the
26:39person's dead.
26:40>> Yeah, I mean a sniper is very
26:42impersonal.
26:44So
26:46I know it might have been far off but I
26:49can't say how far because after just
26:51let's say,
26:524-5 ft away,
26:54now there's nothing for me to see. So,
26:57he could be 5 ft or 100 yd with a good
27:00sniper bullet. But, I will notice
27:02something about the book bullet, it will
27:04have to be
27:05a rifled a rifle or automatic weapon
27:09kind of thing.
27:10Um So, yeah, that's an interesting
27:12thing. For me, there are basically two
27:15kinds of homicide. One is business and
27:19the other is um
27:23personal. Personal. And there's also the
27:26ones that are done for fun, too, like
27:28serial killers, but that's another
27:30category.
27:31>> [gasps]
27:31>> I don't even like speaking or thinking
27:33about it. However,
27:35if it's a business killing, it's very
27:37efficient. You walk in, shoot him in the
27:39head, and walk away. There's no DNA,
27:41there's no contact, there's nothing, no
27:43fingerprints, even. It's business.
27:46Now,
27:47if
27:48I see that the body is
27:51stabbed multiple times, punched, beaten,
27:55especially at the face,
27:57um
27:58beaten, stabbed, strangled, shot, that's
28:01so personal. That's the killing of rage.
28:05So, I know it's someone who knows them.
28:08Um
28:09and someone who has such huge anger
28:13toward this person. Could be revenge.
28:16Uh could be love.
28:20And one of the most brutal killings I
28:21ever saw
28:23was a man who had a wife he was crazy
28:27about. She was a pretty little woman,
28:29all nice little jewelry, and
28:32you know, she dressed up nicely. I saw
28:34pictures of her in the house, and he
28:36loved her insanely.
28:38But, he was wildly jealous.
28:40And one day, they were coming into the
28:42apartment building, and there was the
28:44building manager, the super, was in the
28:46hallway, and she looked at him and said,
28:49"Oh, hello." Nodded at him, and they
28:50went into the house. And he went insane.
28:53He started screaming. The neighbors
28:55could hear.
28:56"Why are you talking to him?"
28:58He thought she was flirting
29:00with the building guy.
29:03And so, this is the saddest thing.
29:05He stabbed her so many times that there
29:09was blood on the ceiling, on the walls,
29:11the floors. Yeah.
29:13>> Just because she talked, nothing else.
29:15>> Yes, because he was so jealous.
29:18To him
29:18>> in that one incident, after that one
29:20incident
29:21>> That's it.
29:22That's it. He was always insanely
29:24jealous and watched her all the time.
29:26But all the neighbors, they said, "Oh,
29:28he loved her insanely. He worshipped
29:30her."
29:31Well,
29:32when something happened, when he saw her
29:35look at another man, he went psychotic.
29:39He suddenly saw, "I'm losing her."
29:41And he lost his mind.
29:43And he stabbed her. And the broom was
29:46horrible. It was horrible. It was just
29:48blood everywhere. And this poor little
29:50woman,
29:51all she did was say hello.
29:54And the guy jumped out a window. It was
29:56only the second story. And we got
29:59bloodhounds
30:00who tracked to her blood. And they
30:03caught him in the park, uh up in Inwood.
30:06Um you know, just running through with
30:08the the bloodhounds that the the what we
30:10call them, they actually not bloodhounds
30:12anymore, they're German Shepherds, but
30:14they're
30:15you know, they're police dogs.
30:17And they um they found him very quickly
30:19because he was covered in her blood.
30:22So,
30:24that gets me so confused.
30:27I've loved people pretty strongly,
30:30but never like that. [laughter]
30:32>> That's not love. That's obsession.
30:34That's psychotic behavior.
30:36>> Yeah. Yeah, it's obsession. It's not
30:38really love. It's complete obsession.
30:40>> killed
30:40just by like shooting her.
30:43>> No, no, no. He wanted to punish her for
30:45breaking his heart. His heart was
30:47probably broken. When he somehow the way
30:50he saw it in his psychosis, in his
30:53insanity,
30:54was that that was her lover and and and
30:58she was leaving him.
31:00And the pain and the fear were so great
31:02that he had to destroy her, not just
31:04kill her, but destroy her.
31:06>> And did he tell
31:08tell this that she he wanted to destroy
31:10her and what all did he do?
31:11>> When they caught him, he said, "Yeah, I
31:13just
31:14>> he do like can you
31:15>> Oh, how he killed her? Oh, he stabbed
31:18her so many times. And you know, when
31:19you stab the carotid arteries or cut
31:22them, the blood sprays. It's high
31:25pressure. It sprays up onto the walls.
31:28And then if you keep stabbing someone,
31:31every time you go in,
31:33you hit blood. And when you pull the
31:35knife back, the blood flings or casts
31:38off the knife.
31:40And lands on the walls or even the
31:42ceiling.
31:43So, he had stabbed her I don't know 80
31:46times, something so ridiculous. There
31:48was nothing left to stab.
31:51So,
31:52the it it it it was just the bloodiest
31:54scene I've ever seen in my life.
31:56And the poor woman, uh I hope she died
31:58very quickly.
32:00Because this was just
32:03But he told the police, "She looked at
32:05the building super. I knew she was
32:08having an affair with him." And they're
32:10like, "What?"
32:12So, of course, you know,
32:13>> We'll
32:14We'll get to this mindset of serial
32:16killers and things in a while. So, when
32:18you're at the crime scene, other than
32:21the body, what is the most important
32:23thing?
32:25>> The witnesses.
32:27The witnesses
32:30Sometimes they lie. Sometimes they tell
32:32the truth. Sometimes they exaggerate.
32:35But most times you can get a straight
32:37story out of someone because they're in
32:39shock.
32:40If they come into the room and see their
32:43brother laying dead on the floor, it's
32:45like, "My god." And now,
32:48if the police ask them, "What did you
32:49hear?"
32:51"I don't know. I thought he was jumping
32:52on the floor. I heard something loud."
32:55Um
32:56"What time was this?" "Well, it was
32:582:00, and I know because I was my my new
33:01show just started on the TV."
33:04Those things help.
33:06The body tells To me, the body doesn't
33:09lie. The body tells you what is there.
33:13Then the scene, of course,
33:15was the Was the uh room ransacked? Were
33:18they looking for something to steal,
33:20jewelry or money? Or
33:23was it a fake crime scene, which I see a
33:25lot?
33:26>> What do you mean by fake crime scene?
33:27>> Well, they want to make it look like it
33:30was burglars coming in to steal. So,
33:33they'll pull all the drawers out of the
33:35bureaus and chests, and maybe they'll
33:37throw some clothes around, but it looks
33:40fake. We call it a staged crime scene.
33:43Cuz they make it look like it was a
33:45robbery, but no, it isn't.
33:48>> Oh, somebody killed it inside.
33:49>> Yeah, somebody just came in and killed
33:51him and said, "I'll make this look like
33:52robbers."
33:54So, sometimes, um and the best way you
33:56can tell that is you see the room, all
33:58the things thrown around, but then
34:00there's a box in one of the drawers, and
34:03there's a bracelet in it, a gold
34:05bracelet. So, why didn't he take that?
34:07>> Mm.
34:08>> I had one like that recently where um
34:11it was
34:12something like I think it was $16,000
34:17in a coat jacket in a coat pocket.
34:20And all the They went through and they
34:22just opened the drawers and threw some
34:23clothes around to make it look like a
34:25burglary. They didn't even take the
34:27money. So, that's pretty damn stupid.
34:30Um
34:32you know, you see in movies all these
34:33very brilliant criminals who pull off
34:35these
34:37you know, heists. They rob a casino or a
34:40bank or whatever.
34:42Um but people who come in to murder
34:44somebody, they're not very bright.
34:46>> Mhm.
34:47>> So, they might know a couple of things
34:49to do, wipe off my fingerprints, things
34:51like that.
34:52Don't eat any food because I'll leave
34:54DNA behind. [laughter]
34:57>> [gasps]
34:57[sighs]
34:58>> Oh.
34:58>> What What if you have to point out let's
35:00say three things, three specific things
35:02without the body
35:03which is a must
35:06when you enter a crime scene. You want
35:08to make a list that these are three
35:09things I will watch.
35:10>> Mhm. [clears throat] Beside the body,
35:12beside what's on the body.
35:14>> Which will tell you a lot about how the
35:16person lived and how person died.
35:18>> Okay. Well, number one is
35:21evidence of human contact. So, DNA and
35:25fingerprints. So, how do I know what's
35:28DNA and what's fingerprints? Well, um
35:31suppose we have a bloody scene. Person's
35:34been killed and there's blood all
35:36around. Now, I walked down the hallway
35:39toward the bathroom
35:41and I see some blood drops on the floor.
35:44That's not from the body. How did they
35:47get there?
35:48So, when
35:50when a perpetrator stabs someone, very
35:52often they cut themselves because as you
35:55push the knife down like this,
35:58sometimes it hits bone and it goes
36:00upward and cuts your hand. See?
36:03So, now you have to go to the bathroom
36:05and wash it off and you know, wrap it up
36:08in a band-aid.
36:10But you're going to leave one little
36:11drop of blood on the floor. And we just
36:14did a case like that in my show, one
36:16drop of blood. Isn't that amazing? But
36:19you have to look for these things. You
36:21can't walk in and say, "Oh, yeah, guy
36:22stabbed. That's that. All right." No, I
36:25have to go
36:26throughout the house. I have to know
36:29everything,
36:30especially any point of human contact.
36:33So, if I see a telephone, I know crime
36:36scene is going to want to you know,
36:37check that for fingerprints. The
36:39doorknob.
36:41And they're very careful about
36:43doorknobs, right? They might wear a
36:44glove or use a towel to open it. But
36:47they forget that when they come in, they
36:49touched the door sill as they pushed it
36:53open. Not touching the knob, but they're
36:55touching the door sill. So, that's where
36:58we look for prints.
36:59So, human contact number one, DNA
37:03and fingerprints. Um next is
37:07>> [gasps]
37:07>> I would say
37:09>> [sighs]
37:10>> the appearance of the house
37:13as to whether or not it was something
37:17that was a real burglary with things are
37:19missing or a fake staged scene.
37:23And in that house, what does that person
37:27have
37:28that may have been important?
37:31So, suppose there's a scientist
37:34working on a very important project for
37:36the government. And we come in
37:39and we see that he's been shot
37:41and we don't see any prints anywhere,
37:43nothing.
37:45But his computer's missing. All
37:47scientists have at least one computer,
37:49right? If that computer is missing
37:53then I know this was a
37:55a business job. This was something high
37:59level.
38:00This is something where they wanted to
38:02get some piece of information that he
38:05had.
38:06So, it's not just what's there that
38:09you're looking for, it's what's not
38:11there.
38:12>> There you go.
38:14This should actually be a class. We
38:16should record this and use it to teach
38:18people.
38:19Giving you all my secrets.
38:21>> [laughter]
38:22>> I want to ask you for more secrets.
38:24>> Mhm.
38:25>> How do you know actually what happens
38:27once once the
38:30once somebody dies? Like minute after
38:32minute, what happens to the body? How
38:34does it decay?
38:36What happens 6 hours later, 24 hours
38:39later? What happens to the body?
38:40>> Good question.
38:42Um
38:44when death is immediate like
38:47let's say a gunshot to the head through
38:49and through
38:50immediately dead. Fall to the ground.
38:53They will not really bleed that much,
38:56but they will leak. Because they died
38:58instantly, the heart is no longer
39:01pumping out blood. So, it'll leak from
39:03the head. There'll be a good amount
39:05around them.
39:06Um
39:07and then as that blood leaves
39:11there are
39:13things that happen inside us that
39:16uh
39:16>> [sighs]
39:17>> I guess the best
39:19It's like being digested by our own
39:22bodies. We have enzymes inside us.
39:25And as the body dies, those enzymes just
39:28digest what's there.
39:30The cell walls. And so, fluids begin to
39:34leak out from the nose.
39:36Um so, now we have blood, we have
39:39fluids. Now
39:41>> Is that what livor mortis is?
39:43>> No, that's what that's just the ordinary
39:45process of a dead body. Starts to digest
39:48itself
39:49and to decompose so it can return to the
39:52earth.
39:53And you know, [clears throat] which is a
39:54very good idea.
39:57So, as that's happening, there are
39:59bacteria
40:00in our gut abdomen and the intestines
40:03that normally
40:05our body keeps in check. They don't grow
40:07too much, but they grow just enough so
40:09that they can help us with digestion.
40:12When they're not when now they're free
40:15to do whatever they want. They start
40:17digesting, eating up
40:20the internal
40:21the internal organs of the body. And
40:23when they do that, it causes gases to
40:26form.
40:27So,
40:28in the first, let's say, 1 hour, we get
40:31the little bit of fluid leaking, we get
40:33the
40:33oozing of blood, and now we get the
40:36digestion of the body.
40:39And as that happens, the gases build up,
40:43and over a period of time, let's say,
40:46well, it depends on the weather, too. If
40:48it's very hot, it goes faster. If it's
40:50cold, it's like refrigeration, slows the
40:53bacteria down.
40:55So, the gases form, and the body begins
40:58to
40:59swell.
41:01And it's not a pretty thing, okay? In
41:03fact, it's horrifying.
41:07As the abdomen swells, the eyelids
41:09swells, anything
41:11that's soft in the body, the gases will
41:14start to come.
41:16Then, the skin will begin to rot.
41:20Okay? Now, we have not just blood
41:23and this the inner fluids, the plasmas,
41:25now we have
41:27green, horrible things.
41:30And this is the point where the smell is
41:33so overwhelmingly bad, there is no way I
41:37can describe it. I have tried.
41:39There is nothing that describes that
41:41smell. It's so horrible.
41:45And that's to me, that's like a signal,
41:47like stay away,
41:48>> [laughter]
41:48>> you know?
41:49It's bad things here.
41:51Like a warning, almost.
41:53Um
41:54so then the body goes through all these
41:56it's like wet decomposition.
42:00On the other hand, suppose you die in a
42:01desert.
42:03You bleed a little bit, but do fluids
42:05leak out? No.
42:07In fact, the bacteria start doing their
42:09little actions, they start digesting
42:12things, but then they get so dried out
42:14from the hot dry sun
42:17that they can't even work anymore.
42:19There's no fluids for them. So, now the
42:22body shrinks down.
42:24All the water leaves it, and we're about
42:2660% water. So, the water leaves it, and
42:29then little animals come and they eat
42:31whatever's left. So, now what do you
42:33have? A skeleton
42:35with some leathery-like skin over it.
42:39So,
42:40that's out in the desert more. But, I
42:43did have a case on the Lower East Side
42:45here. Do you know New York?
42:46>> Yeah.
42:47>> Yeah, okay.
42:48So, back in the '70s and '80s, early
42:51'90s, we had squat buildings. They were
42:53abandoned, no one wanted them. So,
42:55people would go in and live there.
42:57They'd steal electricity from the
42:59streetlights,
43:01and they'd go out and get food and live
43:03in these little places. And we came upon
43:06a man
43:07um the someone wanted to buy the
43:09building. They're looking in the room,
43:10and there's a man laying on the bed, but
43:12he's just a skeleton
43:14with a little bit of raggedy clothing,
43:17and like it looked like leaves, like
43:20autumn leaves.
43:21>> [gasps]
43:22>> But, it was more like leather.
43:24And I'm looking at him, and I noticed
43:26that all his internal organs are gone.
43:29And I said to the police officer, "Well,
43:31that's interesting. Why do you think
43:33they're completely gone? We still have
43:34skin."
43:36He said, "Well, because it's very cold
43:38here. There's no heat. So, the rats
43:40burrowed inside and ate up all the
43:43organs so they could stay warm in
43:45there."
43:46Wow. So,
43:49what we had left is just skin and bones.
43:53Now, can I tell how long he was there?
43:55All I can say is a long time. But, I
43:58can't tell you if that was 3 weeks or 5
44:00months.
44:02So,
44:03that's what happens to a body. The I
44:06believe that the body wants to return to
44:09the earth as an organic substance.
44:12Um
44:15I personally
44:17would like to be buried and become a
44:19tree.
44:20There are certain cemeteries I've heard
44:22about and they dig a hole, put you in a
44:24burlap sack and drop you in like
44:26crumbled up, not too much space and they
44:28plant a very nice tree over you. I would
44:31love to go like that.
44:33>> We did that with my dog.
44:35>> Did you? Oh, that's so nice.
44:37>> There's a tree
44:39and every time we look at that tree, we
44:40just miss him.
44:42>> Yeah. Yeah.
44:43>> And and we feel like there's a belief
44:45that he's there.
44:46>> Oh, he is. He's in that tree. Isn't that
44:49a wonderful thing?
44:50>> Yeah.
44:51>> Yeah, I'd love it if people came by and
44:53sat by my tree,
44:55>> [laughter]
44:56>> had picnics, you know, keep me company.
45:00>> [laughter]
45:01>> See, you said something that you can't
45:03describe
45:05how that smelled. If you have to, let's
45:07say try. What does death smell like?
45:11>> Hm.
45:14Regular death
45:16just, you know, not rotted, like a
45:18fairly fresh body. It just smells kind
45:20of earthy, organic,
45:23warm,
45:25like an old grandma.
45:27You know, when their skin is just kind
45:29of soft and their bodies are just kind
45:31of little and they smell a certain way,
45:34like kind of stale.
45:37It's just the smell of a human being,
45:40but without any hormones, without
45:42anything like that. But then when they
45:44rot, when they decompose, let's see.
45:47If you took
45:49feces, dog and human, put them in a
45:52blender,
45:54added strawberry ice cream,
45:57honey, garlic,
46:00hm, what else?
46:04Rotten
46:06ground from the woods cuz there's an
46:09earthy smell, too. Like, you know,
46:10decomposed leaves.
46:13Put that in there, blend it up, and
46:16smell that. It won't smell anything near
46:19as bad as a decomposed body.
46:22>> That was quite accurate.
46:24>> Isn't it? [laughter]
46:24>> I could
46:25somehow I could sniff it for some no
46:27reason.
46:29>> It's funny, isn't it? But, it's true.
46:31Even as bad as that would be,
46:34it's still not as bad as a rotting,
46:36decomposed body.
46:38Um
46:40you know, I worked in Thailand after the
46:42tsunami.
46:43>> Mhm.
46:44>> The Christmas tsunami of 2000 What was
46:46it? 2004.
46:48And um
46:51they as they recovered bodies, you know,
46:53they just
46:54they took them to the temples.
46:56And they just lined everyone up on the
46:58ground, and in the hot sun and the
47:00humidity was god awful.
47:03Um those bodies just decomposed, and the
47:06smell was
47:09you know, you you learn to breathe
47:10differently. It's like
47:12>> [clears throat]
47:12>> little gasps
47:14through your mouth because you don't
47:16want [laughter] to
47:17And there's nothing you can do to stop
47:18it. Some people say, "Oh, use Vicks
47:20Vapor Rub or menthol. Put it under your
47:22nose." No, that makes you hate the smell
47:25of menthol.
47:26>> Oh, yeah.
47:26>> There's nothing you can do. So,
47:29we smelled that for a long time. Um they
47:32even tried to use dry ice
47:34to put all over the bodies, but that
47:36made it worse because now they were wet.
47:39Um but, I have a picture of that. It's
47:42ghostly, just ghostly.
47:44Really awful.
47:46That was a very, very, very tragic
47:48thing. Um
47:50yeah, it's hard to get out of my mind.
47:52>> Yeah. Can
47:53can a dead body
47:55move or like make sounds, or have its
47:59eyes what partly open.
48:02Or feels like it's breathing.
48:04>> It's happened to me. It's very scary.
48:07>> Really?
48:08>> Yeah, because even after they're dead,
48:10really dead,
48:12um
48:14there's still all those gases inside
48:16them.
48:17So, I was called to the scene where they
48:19had a um
48:20a cargo van
48:21>> Mhm.
48:22>> full of junk, and in the back was a man
48:24who was dead. Big heavy man.
48:27And I
48:29climbed through the junk, I poked my way
48:31in, I found him, and he was decomposing.
48:33It was awful.
48:35And as I went to I moved him so I could
48:38see him, and he went
48:41And it was the gases escaping through
48:43his throat. But I screamed.
48:46And I ran out of the van, and I jumped
48:48into the arms of a police officer who
48:50was laughing like hell. He said, "What
48:52happened, Barbara? Did he come alive?" I
48:54said, "But he's he groaned at me."
48:57>> [laughter]
48:58>> Actually, he
49:00like that.
49:01I was never so scared in my life.
49:04Now, there's a story which I think is
49:06probably not really true, but police
49:09have been telling it for many years,
49:11that there was a rookie cop, brand new
49:13on the job,
49:15and they said to him, um you know,
49:16"You're going to sit and guard this body
49:18until Barbara, the investigator, gets
49:20here."
49:21And he's sitting there, and he's very
49:23afraid, very afraid. It's a little
49:25studio apartment, it's right there in
49:27front of him.
49:28And then, as the body starts to
49:32go like that, it jerked a little. I'm
49:34not sure why. Like maybe the rigor
49:37mortis, I don't know. But it may He said
49:39it moved, and then it made a sound.
49:43Like
49:45the gas.
49:46He got so frightened that he shot it
49:49twice.
49:53He thought it was like a zombie and he
49:56actually shot the dead body.
49:59>> [snorts]
49:59>> So, what did they do? Well, of course,
50:01they took him off the police department.
50:03He didn't have the kind of, you know,
50:06stomach that you need for this business,
50:07but can you imagine the fear?
50:10>> Yeah.
50:10>> And then there was one that came alive.
50:13Uh one of the guys I worked with, Kenny,
50:16he went to the scene of a woman
50:19who had taken pills to commit suicide.
50:22She's laying on the floor
50:24and, you know, the ambulance had already
50:26come, pronounced her dead.
50:28And she's just laying there very pale,
50:30dead.
50:31And he started examining her, opened her
50:35shirt and looking in her mouth,
50:37and she popped her eyes open.
50:39She was actually still alive.
50:42What happened is her heart rate She took
50:45Valium, I think it was. Her heart rate
50:47rate got so slow, so very, very slow.
50:52And the ambulance guys were probably in
50:54a hurry.
50:55>> Mhm.
50:55>> They're like, "Oh, they checked the
50:57pulse. I don't feel anything."
50:59Pulse was just too hard to feel because
51:02her heart was barely beating.
51:05And she was barely breathing.
51:07So,
51:09poor Kenny, he almost peed himself. I
51:11mean, I think he actually did, but he
51:13just didn't want to tell us.
51:15>> [laughter]
51:15>> You know, he jumped back and she was
51:17actually alive. So, they called the
51:19ambulance back again.
51:21And and and Kenny said, "What happened,
51:23guys? You know, like
51:24you couldn't do it right the first time.
51:26Tell me now that she's dead." They said,
51:28"No, she's alive."
51:30They ran her to the hospital and tried
51:32to save her, but then she died the next
51:34day.
51:35But can you imagine alive, dead, alive?
51:38Poor Kenny, he was so traumatized from
51:41that.
51:42>> But they couldn't save her?
51:44>> No, though she was too far gone. She was
51:46really in a coma. Um the eyes popping
51:49open was probably more of a reflex than
51:51anything, but she was alive when he
51:53moved her.
51:55Sad, huh?
51:56>> And then how do you know that it whether
51:58it's
51:59a suicide or a homicide? Somebody
52:04choked someone to death, somebody and
52:06then hang them to make it look like it's
52:08suicide. Like how do you know the
52:10differences between
52:12a murder and a suicide? There must be
52:14>> Well, probably
52:15>> forensic science. The best example is
52:16hanging.
52:18We could use that to demonstrate.
52:20Um
52:22when people hang themselves,
52:25they don't really need to stand up on a
52:27chair and jump off. That's not how it
52:29works.
52:30Uh you know, it's not high enough. It's
52:32not going to break your neck.
52:34But the thing about hanging is that or
52:37or strangulation with with hands,
52:42if
52:44you put someone
52:46uh let's say like the suicide of Lauren
52:50What was her name? Mick Jagger's
52:51girlfriend.
52:52All she did was tie a scarf around her
52:54neck,
52:55kneel on the floor, and attach the scarf
52:58to the doorknob. She had to just lean
53:00forward, and what it did is it
53:03compressed the veins, the
53:06the big jugular veins here. They're very
53:08soft.
53:10If you strangle someone and cut off the
53:12airway, it's a horrible death. And you
53:15can't get any air. It's painful.
53:18If you cut off the carotid arteries,
53:21which are strong,
53:23the person will pass out, they won't
53:25have any air, and they'll die. But if
53:27you just compress the jugular veins,
53:30very soft, just enough to close them.
53:32Now, you keep getting air,
53:35you keep getting blood in your head, but
53:36it can't get out. So it builds up and
53:39up, and it actually feels good as they
53:41black out. And we know this because
53:44people do it as a sexual play.
53:48Mhm. I won't tell you how cuz I don't
53:50ever want [laughter] you to think about
53:52this.
53:54Yes, that's how people do. Now,
53:56>> Like they black out, they do it for some
53:58pleasure.
53:59>> Yes, yes. Because it makes your head go
54:01like wow, wow, wow.
54:03Yeah.
54:04>> And if you do it long enough, then you
54:05can die.
54:05>> Yeah, if you you know, what they usually
54:07do. This is called autoerotic
54:09asphyxiation.
54:10>> What do you What is it called?
54:12>> Autoerotic asphyxiation. You smother
54:14yourself during masturbation or sex with
54:18somebody.
54:19Um
54:20what they usually do is they'll put
54:23something around their neck
54:24and they'll tie it around their finger
54:27so that when they pass out, the finger
54:30the hand drops and the ligature opens
54:33up. But it doesn't always work.
54:37And there I come over. Oh, hello.
54:39He's got pictures of you know, naked
54:42women and and
54:43lubricants and things and he's hanging
54:46and everyone says, "Oh no, it's a
54:48suicide." No, it's not. It was a bad boy
54:51game.
54:53See?
54:53>> It was an accident.
54:54>> Yeah, it was an accident. He was having
54:56a good time with it
54:58and he died.
54:59>> And is it like is it a big thing like a
55:02lot of people do this?
55:03>> Um kind of a lot, yeah. A lot of famous
55:06people have died that way.
55:08>> Then they choke themselves to the point
55:10that they black out.
55:11>> Yeah.
55:12And then when they pass out, you know,
55:15it loosens. That does not always work.
55:17It gets stuck. And then you just black
55:20out and the next thing you know, you're
55:21dead.
55:22Now, how about a murder? What happens is
55:25they're either going to use their hands
55:27or a ligature.
55:29So,
55:31if they use their hands, you'll see
55:33prints, bruising all over the neck and
55:36you can even tell the size of their
55:37hands. If they use a ligature, like
55:40let's say a an extension cord, an
55:42electric wire,
55:43it's usual that they'll go behind the
55:45victim,
55:47put the ligature around,
55:49cross it over and pull upwards like
55:52this. So now I see the mark. The mark of
55:55the wire is here, goes up, crosses
55:58[snorts] over in the back leaving a
56:00blank part in the skin,
56:03and it's very deep because they're
56:05pulling hard.
56:08That's a homicide. Now suppose they did
56:11that,
56:12and then they hang them to make it look
56:14like a suicide.
56:16Well, it's very hard to lift a dead
56:19body,
56:20you know?
56:21Um usually takes two people to do that.
56:24But if it's a little small person, maybe
56:26they could.
56:28So they're already dead, you tie a noose
56:30around their neck, throw it over the
56:32pipe, haul them up,
56:35tie it off. But now what did you forget?
56:38The positioning.
56:40When you do that with someone, it
56:42usually goes the rope will go up this
56:44way,
56:45right?
56:46But no, you look on the neck and you see
56:48the marks of ligature strangulation at
56:51the back.
56:53So there are no secrets from me.
56:56I can tell what you did.
56:58>> And maybe there are two different there
56:59are two signs as well.
57:01>> Sure, there could be two
57:02>> Because it would be very difficult to
57:04accurately just give a sign at like mark
57:06at the exact position where you've
57:07killed them.
57:08>> Sure.
57:09>> What would be?
57:09>> Yeah, exactly. You you you know there's
57:12a mark here, but now you use a rope cuz
57:14it's stronger. Not a little scarf, no.
57:17Or not a piece of little wire, you got
57:19to get them up there.
57:21You see? So
57:23I
57:24have only known in my personal cases one
57:29where um
57:30a handyman strangled a woman with a you
57:33know he
57:34choked her with a ligature and then
57:36hanged her.
57:37But she was a small woman, he was a big
57:39man.
57:40And it was obvious right from the
57:42beginning.
57:43She did not die by hanging. She died by
57:45being strangled. Very sad.
57:48>> But how do killers fool?
57:50>> Mhm, they can fool us. They do.
57:52>> How?
57:53>> time.
57:53>> Tell me three smartest way that somebody
57:56has fooled you.
57:57>> Now then I'd have to kill you because
57:59you know the secrets.
58:02>> [laughter]
58:02>> Tell me the ones which are out there.
58:03>> Okay, the ones that are probably
58:05>> me the one which can be used.
58:07>> Okay, [laughter] no I won't do that. I
58:08won't do that.
58:09>> Yeah, I don't want people to have random
58:11ideas.
58:12>> Yeah.
58:12>> Tell me the ones you have you've gotten
58:14it like you've gotten it but it was
58:16difficult.
58:16>> Mhm, let's see.
58:21Oh.
58:23Well, let me see. He got away with that
58:25one.
58:28You know, I can't think of anything
58:30except the robbery, you know, ransacking
58:33and making it staging a crime scene.
58:36>> True.
58:36>> [gasps]
58:38>> However, oh oh wait a minute.
58:40When they make it look
58:42like there was a sexual assault, okay?
58:45>> Mhm.
58:46>> So
58:48if we come in and see that a woman or a
58:50man has been sexually assaulted, there
58:52are signs obviously. You know, it's very
58:54traumatic.
58:56But if a person, let's say a woman is
58:58laying on the floor
59:00and it appears that she's like her arms
59:03are out, legs are out, she's naked.
59:06And so this perpetrator wants to make it
59:08look like it's a sexual assault.
59:11But the perpetrator is a woman.
59:14Mhm.
59:17Now, when you come in and see it looks
59:19like someone's been raped,
59:21you're thinking man, right?
59:24Suppose it was a woman that came in,
59:27strangled the victim, laid her out,
59:30stripped the clothes, and made it look
59:32like rape.
59:34Then you're thinking of a man.
59:36See?
59:37But now, fortunately, most women do not
59:41kill like that.
59:44Women who kill,
59:46it's either someone attacking their
59:48children, their husband who has been
59:50beating them for years.
59:52Um
59:54You know, it's more personal.
59:55>> Is it rare that a woman is killing other
59:57women another woman?
59:58>> Oh, sure.
1:00:00Sure.
1:00:00>> It's not very common.
1:00:01>> I've never No, not at all. Not common at
1:00:03all. I
1:00:03>> killing another man is common because of
1:00:05business,
1:00:06>> Yeah.
1:00:07>> because of revenge, because of
1:00:09hierarchy, because of
1:00:10>> Yeah.
1:00:11>> cheating and all of that.
1:00:12>> Sure. Business, business cheating.
1:00:15Um 80%
1:00:17>> killing like women are not killing
1:00:18another woman because of let's say
1:00:20cheating scandal with her husband or
1:00:22something.
1:00:23>> I've heard of it, but I've never seen
1:00:25it.
1:00:26No, I've seen women
1:00:28kill their husbands or have him killed.
1:00:31I've seen women when we know some the
1:00:34woman who killed her little children in
1:00:36a psychotic episode of postpartum
1:00:39psychosis.
1:00:41Um
1:00:42So, women can kill children, yes. They
1:00:45kill men.
1:00:47I can't think of another case. I've
1:00:49never seen one where a woman killed a
1:00:51woman.
1:00:52>> [snorts]
1:00:53>> Um
1:00:53>> Interesting. Why Why do you think so?
1:00:56>> Well, the main reason might be Suppose
1:01:00you loved your husband, very happy, and
1:01:03a woman came in and seduced him and took
1:01:05him away. Who should you kill? The woman
1:01:08or your husband?
1:01:10Your husband, of course.
1:01:11>> No one.
1:01:12>> Yeah. Yeah, no. Yes, thank you.
1:01:14>> [laughter]
1:01:14>> I forgot that part. No one. Please don't
1:01:17kill anybody. We're going to catch you.
1:01:18>> Yeah.
1:01:19>> And you're going to be punished for
1:01:20life.
1:01:21>> In your head, both.
1:01:22>> Yeah.
1:01:23>> In reality, no one.
1:01:24>> Yeah.
1:01:25>> So, um yeah,
1:01:27if that's the case, if they're so angry
1:01:30and so hurt, they're going to kill the
1:01:32husband.
1:01:33And you know, God, I've got
1:01:36two cases like that. We talked about
1:01:38Well, you'll see them in my show. But,
1:01:40uh
1:01:41yeah, where the woman really got
1:01:43revenge.
1:01:44>> So, do you think first would they try to
1:01:46stage a sexual assault? That's how they
1:01:48try to fool.
1:01:49>> Sure. That's one
1:01:50>> second way of fooling.
1:01:52>> Um faking a hanging.
1:01:54Oh, wait a second. There is something
1:01:55else.
1:01:57Altering the time of death. A man was
1:02:00known as a hustler.
1:02:02Um he had a little studio apartment, and
1:02:06men used to come in and have sex with
1:02:08him, and he'd get paid.
1:02:09And he was popular, so there was a lot
1:02:11of business.
1:02:12>> Hustler as in like a
1:02:13>> Popular as in like a lot of people came
1:02:16to be with him and paid money.
1:02:18>> Hustler
1:02:19>> Hustler. Oh, yeah, hustler, a man.
1:02:21>> A hustler is a man who will
1:02:24pick up other men for money. It's a form
1:02:27of prostitution, of sex work.
1:02:30Um
1:02:31and
1:02:32usually, these so-called hustlers are
1:02:35men who say they are straight,
1:02:37>> Mhm.
1:02:38>> but they just want to mess around, try
1:02:40something different.
1:02:42And then,
1:02:44sometimes, when they see the victim,
1:02:47then they see the hustler, and they're
1:02:49giving him money, they the hustlers give
1:02:51I mean, the
1:02:52the victim is giving the hustler money,
1:02:54and they're looking in his eyes, and
1:02:56suddenly, a hatred comes over him. He
1:02:59has horrible disgust for what he's just
1:03:02done. He can't admit that he has
1:03:05homosexual urges. He can't.
1:03:08It would be too awful.
1:03:09>> Because the straight man is going to
1:03:11this guy, the straight man can't
1:03:12actually
1:03:13>> Exactly.
1:03:14>> accept it.
1:03:14>> That's That's He can't accept what he
1:03:16just did. So, what does he do? He beats
1:03:19in the face
1:03:21of the guy who he paid
1:03:23because he doesn't want him looking at
1:03:25him.
1:03:26It's called internalized homophobia or
1:03:30homophobic rage.
1:03:32>> How can he do it by his own will and
1:03:35consent?
1:03:36>> but there's something psychotic about
1:03:38them.
1:03:39I've got a couple of these and it's very
1:03:40sad.
1:03:41In fact, when I walk into an apartment
1:03:43and it's extremely well decorated and
1:03:46you know, the victim may be on the
1:03:48floor,
1:03:49nicely dressed, beautiful home,
1:03:51and then I see that his face has been
1:03:54bashed in with a a vase or something or
1:03:57a baseball bat and he's dead.
1:03:59That's first thing I think of is who did
1:04:01he meet in a bar?
1:04:03Who did he pay for sex today?
1:04:06Um and usually it's true.
1:04:09So,
1:04:10this guy,
1:04:12he had his customers
1:04:14and the neighbors said, you know, there
1:04:15were always people in and out about
1:04:17every 2 hours.
1:04:18>> Mhm.
1:04:18>> And he worked a lot.
1:04:21And we came there because there was a
1:04:23fire in the room in the apartment. The
1:04:25fire department got there, they saw it
1:04:27was very smoky, there was flames around
1:04:29the bed on a bureau. They put it out and
1:04:32I came in.
1:04:33Laying on the bed is a man who is
1:04:36um has been obviously stabbed
1:04:39and you know, his face has been beaten,
1:04:41he's been stabbed in the chest.
1:04:43And um
1:04:45the reason the fire started is that the
1:04:47bureau at the foot of the bed had big
1:04:50candles on it
1:04:51and little candles and they were all lit
1:04:55and they were the drawers were opened
1:04:58and the candles were placed at the edge
1:05:00of the drawer so that as they melted
1:05:02down, eventually it would set fire to
1:05:05the clothes.
1:05:06So, now, how can I establish the time of
1:05:09death? If I can get a reasonable
1:05:12estimate of time of death, we know who
1:05:15was there because there's videos in the
1:05:18hallway, right?
1:05:20So, who was it?
1:05:22There were two guys who came between
1:05:24noon and four.
1:05:27Which one is it?
1:05:28I don't know because now he's been
1:05:31smoked. The temperature's all wrong. I
1:05:34don't know what time he died.
1:05:36This person, this perpetrator, set it up
1:05:39very cleverly
1:05:41so that
1:05:43he stabbed him and then he set fires.
1:05:47>> Yeah.
1:05:47>> But just enough so that he could get out
1:05:49safely and they were slow fires. They
1:05:51were smoky.
1:05:53So, when I
1:05:55got the man out in the hall to examine
1:05:57him,
1:05:58his skin was like yellow, leathery
1:06:01because the heat was slow. It like baked
1:06:04the skin.
1:06:05Um I couldn't tell rigor mortis because
1:06:08the firemen had moved him.
1:06:10And you know, so that breaks it up. Um I
1:06:13couldn't tell algor algor mortis because
1:06:15he had been rolled all around and every
1:06:17part of him was covered in smoke.
1:06:20And it was very a bit of early
1:06:22decomposition,
1:06:23which is skin slippage.
1:06:26Sometimes after you die, the skin
1:06:28becomes loose and if you pull it, it
1:06:31will actually come off.
1:06:33So, I saw on his lower legs that the
1:06:36skin had come off. Was that because he
1:06:39was there a long time? No, it's because
1:06:41the firemen pulled him out by his legs.
1:06:45And their rough gloves
1:06:47made the cooked skin
1:06:49come off.
1:06:51So, I couldn't tell what time he died.
1:06:53Nobody could.
1:06:54>> And were you able to catch the guy?
1:06:56>> No.
1:06:57No.
1:06:59In this country, about 60% of homicides
1:07:02are solved.
1:07:03>> Only 60?
1:07:04>> Only 60%. Now,
1:07:0640% of
1:07:08killers they're out there.
1:07:11And nobody there look after them. That's
1:07:13right.
1:07:14>> In the most powerful country in the
1:07:15world.
1:07:16>> That's right.
1:07:17This most powerful country has very
1:07:20uneven resources.
1:07:22In New York City, it's hard not to get
1:07:25caught. You're going to get caught
1:07:26because we have everything. We have the
1:07:28best DNA labs, the best detectives, the
1:07:31best, you know, crime scene unit.
1:07:33>> Yeah, there's surveillance there's a
1:07:35bunch of things.
1:07:36>> Right. Right. Now, when you go out to
1:07:37the Wisconsin, the Dakotas,
1:07:41where they don't have maybe they only
1:07:43have one forensic pathologist for the
1:07:45state or the county.
1:07:47In New York, we have 15. We have 45
1:07:50investigators, see?
1:07:53Out in the country, in order to get DNA
1:07:55done, they have to have a budget for it.
1:07:57They have to send it to to a state lab.
1:08:01Um
1:08:02and they don't have the experience.
1:08:04You know, if they get
1:08:06Uh I was working with one guy the other
1:08:08day who's only had one homicide in 9
1:08:10years.
1:08:11And he's a homicide detective. I said,
1:08:13"What else do you do?" He said, "Well,
1:08:15you know, I help out." So [laughter]
1:08:18Can you imagine one homicide in 9 years?
1:08:21I've got 680 in 10 years, you know. So
1:08:24um it's pretty it it's it's very uneven.
1:08:27So it's it's kind of easy if you do it
1:08:30out in the desert, out in the the
1:08:32plains,
1:08:34you're going to have a better chance of
1:08:35getting away with it. Not in New York,
1:08:37not in Baltimore, Chicago, Miami,
1:08:40Los Angeles. Nah.
1:08:41>> Nah.
1:08:42>> Nah. But I mean, we still don't get all
1:08:44of them.
1:08:44>> Yeah. I was just going to point out like
1:08:46some shootings and things which have
1:08:48happened
1:08:48>> Yeah.
1:08:49>> in California and New York as well.
1:08:51>> Sure.
1:08:51>> And
1:08:52they've not been caught. Nobody know
1:08:54where
1:08:55>> Yeah.
1:08:55>> No Nobody has any clue where are these
1:08:58guys.
1:08:58>> clue. Right. Like
1:09:00>> And they've done it open out there in
1:09:02public and nobody knows.
1:09:03>> That's right. They walked down the
1:09:05street, shot somebody, and they drove
1:09:06away.
1:09:07>> Exactly.
1:09:07>> Yeah.
1:09:08>> How is that possible?
1:09:11>> You know, even in New York that happens,
1:09:13a drive-by shooting.
1:09:16These kids in gangs, you know,
1:09:19they have nothing, so they take risks,
1:09:23bad risks.
1:09:25>> [gasps]
1:09:25>> They think, "I want to live the life of
1:09:27a drug dealer. Even if I die by 30, at
1:09:29least I'll have a car, clothes,
1:09:31diamonds, money, girls."
1:09:33That's not how it works. You usually get
1:09:35killed pretty quickly.
1:09:37But these guys, you know, they get a
1:09:39couple of teenagers in a car, they'll
1:09:41drive past a
1:09:42a place where there's old people hanging
1:09:44around, and they're looking for someone
1:09:47who's their enemy.
1:09:48And they shoot into the crowd, and they
1:09:50shoot a couple of people
1:09:52cuz they're not very good at shooting.
1:09:55And they shoot people, and they kill
1:09:56them, and they drive away. And in the
1:09:58shock and horror,
1:10:00not everybody knows to look for the
1:10:02license plate, and sometimes that's a
1:10:04stolen car.
1:10:06You see? So,
1:10:08those
1:10:09sometimes don't get solved. However, now
1:10:12in New York, we not only have video
1:10:14cameras everywhere,
1:10:16we also have something um
1:10:19I'm not even sure what they call it, but
1:10:20if a gunshot is heard, it alerts the
1:10:23police department. A gunshot has a very
1:10:25particular sound.
1:10:27>> Mhm.
1:10:27>> And I know this because it happened to
1:10:29me.
1:10:30I was living up in Harlem,
1:10:33and I was walking across the street
1:10:36at to the subway, and suddenly, ping
1:10:39ping, I heard the crack of gunfire, and
1:10:42the bullets hit the building corner in
1:10:45front of me, passed about 10 ft in front
1:10:48of my eyes, and I was like, "Shit." And
1:10:50I hit the ground, right? And another
1:10:52[clears throat] woman was there. I
1:10:53yelled, "Hit the ground." And we both
1:10:54got down to the ground. We crawled
1:10:56toward the subway. I was furious. I had
1:10:59a nice outfit on.
1:11:00And
1:11:02there was three gunshots, right? Two of
1:11:03them hit the building. The other one No
1:11:05one was killed. But I was so angry. I
1:11:07called the police department. What the
1:11:09hell was that?
1:11:10And they said, "Well, you know how these
1:11:12gangs are. They start shooting at each
1:11:14other, but it wasn't They weren't aiming
1:11:16at you, so"
1:11:18I said, "Wait a minute. I don't care.
1:11:19I don't care if no one was killed. They
1:11:21were still firing a gun, and there's a
1:11:23playground just half a block away."
1:11:26So they're like, "Oh, no, no. We're
1:11:27going to find them. We'll get them on
1:11:28the video cameras." But my god.
1:11:31So but here's the thing. Police
1:11:33responded immediately. I didn't even
1:11:35have to dial 911.
1:11:38Soon as the ping ping ping, they hear
1:11:40it. They have sensors.
1:11:42Maybe they call them listeners. I don't
1:11:44know.
1:11:44>> That's a good thing.
1:11:45>> Yeah, but police in New York have great
1:11:47technology. Really good. So don't come
1:11:50over here to kill anybody anybody, you
1:11:52know.
1:11:52>> [laughter]
1:11:54>> No person.
1:11:56>> Do you Can you look at a body
1:11:59and
1:12:00actually tell that if the person has
1:12:02died peacefully or was it a violent
1:12:05death?
1:12:06>> You know, it's very hard to tell.
1:12:08Um
1:12:10because
1:12:12even if a person is being badly hurt,
1:12:17you know, strangled or something or
1:12:19stabbed, and their face in that moment
1:12:22might be, you know, screaming or the
1:12:24eyes are open. When you die, everything
1:12:27kind of relaxes.
1:12:28You know, it just goes
1:12:30Your face falls. Everything just falls.
1:12:32So I really can't tell
1:12:35um
1:12:36if they died peacefully or not.
1:12:39Now, you know, I had a little old lady.
1:12:42She was dead in the bed,
1:12:44and we went over because, you know, she
1:12:46was alone.
1:12:48And there was medicine on the nightstand
1:12:50for heart disease. She was old.
1:12:52And normally, a little lady like that
1:12:55would be laying in the bed peacefully
1:12:57with the covers on her, but there was
1:12:58something funny. The covers were pulled.
1:13:02They were messed up.
1:13:04And
1:13:05her drawers were open.
1:13:07There was nothing in them to steal, but
1:13:10they looked like they had been searched,
1:13:12not just tossed out.
1:13:14And we found out that a neighbor's son
1:13:17had gone in there and strangled her. But
1:13:21what he did really was smother her. Now,
1:13:23how did we know that? Because if you
1:13:25hold your hand
1:13:27like that over somebody's mouth,
1:13:29particularly an older person or a child,
1:13:31they go like this to get away. And when
1:13:33they do, it leaves abrasions. Their
1:13:36teeth
1:13:37abrade the inside of the lip.
1:13:40You lift up the lip and you see it. And
1:13:43you're like, wait a minute, she was
1:13:44smothered. Yeah.
1:13:46And that little fren- it's called a
1:13:48frenulum, a little web of tissue that
1:13:50holds your lip to the gums, that can
1:13:52sometimes tear if you're doing that.
1:13:56See?
1:13:57So many things to know.
1:13:58>> Yeah. I I I have some pictures to show
1:14:01you. They're all blood spatter.
1:14:03>> Okay.
1:14:03>> Uh can you tell me what happened where?
1:14:05Because every blood stain is going to
1:14:09tell you a different story, right?
1:14:10>> All right. Well, that's You You're
1:14:13You're You're catching me by surprise
1:14:15here.
1:14:17All right.
1:14:18This is blood swipe. All right, it's
1:14:20been it's something came across a little
1:14:23pool of blood
1:14:24and drew it in a line.
1:14:26>> Okay.
1:14:27>> Okay, uh this is interesting. Now, blood
1:14:29drops, we can tell a lot about them. If
1:14:31it's straight down like that, it means
1:14:34it fell
1:14:35straight and round.
1:14:37But when it's like this,
1:14:39this means that the drop
1:14:41was moving. Okay, but in this this is a
1:14:44kind of a strange one. It looks more to
1:14:46me like someone took a drop of blood and
1:14:49then smeared that way.
1:14:52But now, if I see it Let me see if you
1:14:54have any of these.
1:14:55>> All right.
1:14:56>> Oh, here. Blood spatter. Okay. Oh, this
1:14:58is called drip.
1:15:00Okay? So, blood splashed here and
1:15:03dripped straight down.
1:15:05This
1:15:07Ah, this is blood spatter.
1:15:10Now,
1:15:11this is interesting. Now Now you can see
1:15:13the movement I'm talking about.
1:15:16When a person is running and the bloody
1:15:19knife is dripping,
1:15:21you'll see the blood will hit the ground
1:15:24and then it will streak that way.
1:15:27And it will leave like a little tail.
1:15:30And that tail points you in the
1:15:31direction that the person was moving.
1:15:34See? So, you can see that here. You can
1:15:36see the blood moved.
1:15:38A drop and then it smeared.
1:15:40>> Mhm. So, this is like mostly a knife
1:15:42killing, are you telling me?
1:15:43>> Uh it's not It's not You can't be sure.
1:15:46It could be also a hammer.
1:15:48You know, when you hit somebody with a
1:15:49piece of wood or a baseball bat, it
1:15:51splashes up just like that.
1:15:54Um
1:15:56All right. Yeah, this is pretty much
1:15:57straight down blood drip.
1:15:59>> Mhm.
1:16:00What's this?
1:16:03>> Oh, look at that mess.
1:16:06Hm.
1:16:08This looks like something that was
1:16:09faked.
1:16:11>> Faked?
1:16:12>> Faked. Yeah, this doesn't look real.
1:16:15This doesn't look like a real crime
1:16:16scene.
1:16:17>> Someone tried to
1:16:19>> Yeah, it looks like someone was flinging
1:16:22Like how could it be so even flinging
1:16:25blood and then it drips down.
1:16:26>> Can't be like multiple stabs, no?
1:16:29>> No, no, they wouldn't Is this the wall?
1:16:31I think this is a cinder block wall,
1:16:32right?
1:16:33>> Mhm. Yeah.
1:16:34>> This doesn't look like anything that
1:16:36I've seen.
1:16:38No, it looks fake.
1:16:39>> It's a fake story.
1:16:40>> Oh, like they were like they were doing
1:16:42a test for the police here. Interpret
1:16:44this.
1:16:45You know, and they they did it.
1:16:47>> But they're trying to mess it up and
1:16:49like
1:16:50they're trying to mess it up on purpose.
1:16:52>> Yeah. Like splashing it. Yeah. What does
1:16:55this say?
1:16:56Oh.
1:16:58High velocity blood spatter.
1:17:01When
1:17:03a clot of blood or like let's say a got
1:17:06from a gunshot
1:17:08push out pieces of the brain.
1:17:11When they hit, it's high velocity. So
1:17:14they spray out
1:17:16all around, right? One single bit of
1:17:19tissue, brain matter, or a blood clot
1:17:23traveling at a high speed.
1:17:25>> This one.
1:17:29>> Can't even tell what this is.
1:17:32Is this a pipe? No.
1:17:39I don't even know what that is.
1:17:41Looks like a pipe.
1:17:42>> They're doing it around so that I can
1:17:43see from this side. Like from that side.
1:17:45So that
1:17:46>> Mhm.
1:17:50Oh, it's the muzzle. Okay. Yeah,
1:17:53[clears throat] here we have the muzzle
1:17:55and as the projectile went in is
1:17:58probably got shot a shotgun.
1:18:01The blood [clears throat] blows back.
1:18:03Yeah.
1:18:04>> So what does that mean?
1:18:05>> Splashes back. Just means close contact,
1:18:07close range.
1:18:08>> Is it somebody shot it? Somebody
1:18:11>> So somebody shoots let's say the
1:18:14abdomen.
1:18:15When it goes in, like a gunshot will
1:18:18from a from [clears throat] a shotgun
1:18:21it some will splash back and go into the
1:18:23gun.
1:18:26Yeah.
1:18:27>> And what's this?
1:18:29>> Oh.
1:18:31Oh, this could be fling or cast off.
1:18:33What they call it now. You know, when
1:18:35you pull the you hit with a bat, makes
1:18:38blood, you come back for more and the
1:18:40blood casts off onto the wall.
1:18:43>> This is like second or third?
1:18:45>> First. Oh, say yeah, second strike. All
1:18:48right, you're right. Yeah, that's what
1:18:49that looks like.
1:18:50>> And what's this? Like these are two
1:18:51different types of blood.
1:18:52>> Mhm. No, this is drying blood.
1:18:56Um
1:18:57Oh, see here?
1:18:59The blood here's a big pool of it, but
1:19:03the blood has different components to
1:19:05it, more liquid like plasma, the more
1:19:07solid like red blood cells. So, it
1:19:10separates. See here we have all the
1:19:12blood and here is the plasma, which is
1:19:15orange and yellow.
1:19:17It just separates away from the rest of
1:19:20the blood.
1:19:21Just simple physics. This here, this
1:19:24part is more dried.
1:19:26This, I don't know.
1:19:29Looks like somebody cooked it.
1:19:32>> Looks like clot?
1:19:33>> Yeah, it's all but the blackness of it,
1:19:36either very old or someone
1:19:39heated it up.
1:19:40>> Um do you think it is because the blood
1:19:43was just lying there for like long time?
1:19:45>> It's Yeah, I mean it's it's this is a
1:19:48very This is clotting like you'd
1:19:49normally see. This is a very old
1:19:51clotting of blood. It's all dried up.
1:19:53>> Just like weeks?
1:19:55>> Yeah.
1:19:55>> What is the tiniest clue that you've
1:19:58seen
1:19:59that completely changed your
1:20:01investigation
1:20:02or what completely changed about a death
1:20:06that you used to believe?
1:20:08>> Mhm.
1:20:18Mhm, that's [clears throat] a very good
1:20:19question.
1:20:21Well,
1:20:24Oh, how about this?
1:20:27A woman is stabbed to death, brutally
1:20:29stabbed.
1:20:31There's no sign of forced entry.
1:20:34Looks like someone was just able to walk
1:20:36in or she let someone in
1:20:39because she knew them. All right. And
1:20:41now I'm feeling I'm thinking of family.
1:20:45And so I have to explore the family with
1:20:47the police. Who are they? You know, did
1:20:49she have any fights with her sisters or
1:20:50aunts or husband, anybody?
1:20:53Someone she knew came in there and
1:20:55stabbed her.
1:20:57Now then I also see that her face has
1:20:59been punched, punched repeatedly.
1:21:04But I don't see
1:21:05big knuckle punches. You know, when you
1:21:07smash somebody in the face, you can see
1:21:10the individual knuckles sometimes. This
1:21:13looks more like
1:21:15like
1:21:17this.
1:21:19Right? Like it's a softer strike.
1:21:22And who hits like that? A woman, not a
1:21:25man.
1:21:28So
1:21:29that gives me another clue. Somebody it
1:21:31might be a woman.
1:21:33Then
1:21:36I see that
1:21:38there is
1:21:39a big butcher knife, a big kitchen
1:21:42knife, 10 inches
1:21:44on the hallway, in the hallway outside
1:21:46the bedroom where she is dead.
1:21:49Hmm, that's probably the murder weapon.
1:21:51And now I go into the kitchen and I see
1:21:53that there's one of those blocks that
1:21:55you put your knives in.
1:21:57And sure enough, there's the missing
1:21:59one. There's the big one.
1:22:01Uh but I'm looking at it and there's
1:22:02something wrong. It's not bloody enough.
1:22:08First of all, what am I thinking? It's a
1:22:10weapon of opportunity. The person who
1:22:13killed her probably didn't go there to
1:22:16kill her. They had a fight of some kind
1:22:19because if she was just going to murder
1:22:21her
1:22:23why not bring your own knife? Why not
1:22:25bring a gun? Why not And why beat her
1:22:27face?
1:22:28Probably started arguing
1:22:31and start punching her, hitting her.
1:22:34And then you're like, "Oh my god.
1:22:36Uh she saw me. I can't leave her alive.
1:22:39She's unconscious,
1:22:41but she'll tell everybody I'll go to
1:22:43jail.
1:22:44I better kill her. All right, let me see
1:22:46what we got in the kitchen here." And
1:22:48they're looking at the knives. They say,
1:22:50"Well, I'll try this one."
1:22:52But when I see that big knife in the
1:22:54hole, A it's not bloody enough. It
1:22:56should be soaked for all these stab
1:22:58wounds. And when I look at the stab
1:23:01wounds, I can tell the size of the
1:23:03knife.
1:23:04If it's a little skinny stab wound, it's
1:23:07probably like a a little um kitchen
1:23:10knife.
1:23:11If it's a big wide one, more like a
1:23:13butcher's knife.
1:23:15But these are different. They have a
1:23:18little edge, like we call it a scalloped
1:23:21edge. It's not a clean slice. It's like
1:23:24little waves. And what does that tell
1:23:27you?
1:23:28Steak knife. A serrated edge knife.
1:23:32Now I go back to the kitchen and I see,
1:23:34"Okay, in that block there's only one
1:23:36big knife missing." But
1:23:38I look on the side of the counter is
1:23:41another like um
1:23:43what do you call it? Piece of pottery
1:23:45and it has more knives in it, like just
1:23:47junk knives.
1:23:49What's in there? Couple of steak knives.
1:23:53Hmm, that means she probably used a
1:23:56steak knife.
1:23:58>> [gasps]
1:23:58>> So then why
1:24:01And by the way, there were five steak
1:24:03knives left. Usually they come in a set
1:24:05of six, okay?
1:24:07So,
1:24:09one was out on the counter cuz she was
1:24:10chopping up a salad.
1:24:12Um four were in the jar and one's
1:24:15missing.
1:24:16>> Mhm.
1:24:16>> So, but I think
1:24:19is that you know, why wouldn't she hide
1:24:21that big knife? Why'd she leave it right
1:24:23there on the floor?
1:24:25Well, to make us think that some big man
1:24:28came in and grabbed a big knife and
1:24:30stabbed her? I mean, what's the
1:24:33what's the thinking there? Well, the
1:24:35truth is there is no thinking. They
1:24:37don't know what the hell they're doing.
1:24:38So, what really was the weapon was the
1:24:40steak knife and she took it with her.
1:24:43And I say she, right?
1:24:46>> A woman killing another woman.
1:24:47>> That's what I think, yeah. I believe,
1:24:50you know, they said, "Oh, it must be the
1:24:51handyman across the street." I said,
1:24:52"No, something's telling me woman."
1:24:55Okay? And that's probably the punches
1:24:57like this.
1:24:58>> That's why you were saying that
1:25:00men don't kill like this.
1:25:02>> No, men men don't stab like that. And
1:25:05but when they're going to beat someone's
1:25:06face in, I don't know if you've ever
1:25:08been in a fight, I hope not.
1:25:09>> Never.
1:25:10>> But you know, they do like this. They
1:25:11punch, punch, punch with the hard
1:25:13knuckles.
1:25:14Women might go like this in a fit of
1:25:17rage, like they're arguing. So, maybe
1:25:20it's two sisters, they're like
1:25:22you know, you oh, you slept with my
1:25:23husband. You know what I mean? Something
1:25:25like that?
1:25:26So, she's pounding, punching, punching.
1:25:29And she's like, "Oh, damn it, I got to
1:25:30kill her."
1:25:32I can't let her tell everybody that I
1:25:34beat her to death.
1:25:35>> Yeah.
1:25:36>> So, yeah. What's That's right. That was
1:25:39the woman-on-woman killing.
1:25:41>> And
1:25:43what's the weirdest
1:25:45object
1:25:46that you've seen that
1:25:48somebody's used for killing?
1:25:53>> A fireplace tool. And you know, in
1:25:56fireplaces that we have here, you get
1:25:59like a little set of tools.
1:26:01They're usually black iron and there's
1:26:03like a poker.
1:26:04>> Okay.
1:26:05>> There's a hook to move the logs around.
1:26:08And there's also something I'm not even
1:26:10quite sure what it's there for, but it's
1:26:13a long thick rod and at the end there's
1:26:15two like little curved forks.
1:26:19So,
1:26:20when I saw on this guy's head, he had
1:26:23been hit multiple times with probably
1:26:25the fire poker, but there was a pattern
1:26:28of these two little curved hooks.
1:26:32And that one was not in the fireplace
1:26:35set.
1:26:36So, I figure the killer used a fire
1:26:38iron.
1:26:39Fire hook, yeah, fire iron. Used the one
1:26:42that had the hooks on it, beat him in
1:26:44the head, and then took it away.
1:26:46>> Have you seen I was reading somewhere
1:26:48that
1:26:49you have seen
1:26:52Satanic rituals.
1:26:54>> Oh, yeah.
1:26:55>> What are they like?
1:26:57>> Um what I've seen is I don't think they
1:27:00were Satanic rituals. I think they were
1:27:04um
1:27:05this Yoruba
1:27:06>> Mhm.
1:27:07>> things that are done. It's Afro-Cuban.
1:27:10Um there are different religions and
1:27:13spiritual beliefs that use sacrifice.
1:27:17Usually a dog
1:27:18or an animal where they
1:27:21>> But what did you did you see? Have you
1:27:23seen it?
1:27:23>> I've seen them in a very interesting
1:27:25place.
1:27:26In New York, there was a woman named
1:27:28Irene Silverman.
1:27:30>> Mhm.
1:27:30>> She was very wealthy, and she was very
1:27:33very nice. So, two a mother and her son
1:27:37came to Mrs. Silverman's home and said,
1:27:39"We have no place to live. Could you
1:27:41help us? You know, we're my job I got
1:27:44fired. My son came to stay with me. Now
1:27:46we have no home. And we'll help you.
1:27:48We'll clean the house. We'll take care
1:27:50of things." Sure, come on in.
1:27:52>> Yeah.
1:27:53>> And they came in, and then they
1:27:55realized, "Well, this is a pretty good
1:27:58job.
1:27:59We could have this house if we wanted
1:28:01it. We could have her money, her jewels.
1:28:03We could have everything."
1:28:05And they were a couple of grifters.
1:28:07Grifters are con men.
1:28:09>> Mhm.
1:28:09>> And this woman and her son,
1:28:13um, Sante and Kenneth Kimes,
1:28:16they, uh,
1:28:18she disappeared suddenly. And suddenly
1:28:20they were owning her house and
1:28:22everything in it.
1:28:23So, when the relatives called the
1:28:25police,
1:28:26couldn't find Mrs. Silverman anywhere.
1:28:29I got a call from a psychic
1:28:31>> Mhm.
1:28:32>> who said, "Barbara, I think I know where
1:28:33she is.
1:28:35There's a big field out in New Jersey
1:28:38and I think she might be out there. I
1:28:40just have a strong feeling."
1:28:42I said, "All right, I'll go, you know,
1:28:44we'll go out there. Not a Saturday, what
1:28:46the hell?"
1:28:48>> [clears throat]
1:28:49>> Now, what am I looking for when I'm
1:28:50looking in a field for a buried body?
1:28:53Well, first of all, when you dig a a
1:28:56grave, put the person in, and put the
1:28:58dirt on top, the dirt settles, right? As
1:29:01the air gets compressed out,
1:29:05it settles. Now, you're going to see a
1:29:07dip in the ground.
1:29:08>> Okay.
1:29:09>> And if it's been there for a while,
1:29:12you're going to see that if there's old
1:29:13grass and weeds
1:29:15over that area, the grass will be much
1:29:18greener because it has the fertilizer of
1:29:21the body.
1:29:22So, I'm looking around for that. And now
1:29:24the psychic has like a a tool and she's
1:29:28going around looking for the magnetic
1:29:31pulsations of the earth
1:29:34to tell her where the body is.
1:29:36>> [laughter]
1:29:37>> And you know, it's like, "Okay,
1:29:38whatever." But then, we come upon con-
1:29:41we come upon some railroad tracks
1:29:44and they're abandoned.
1:29:46And on those railroad tracks is the
1:29:49skull of a dog,
1:29:51a bowl with clotted blood in it,
1:29:54feathers, [snorts]
1:29:56um, a cross, like a crucifix,
1:30:00and oh, little bi- bits of what look
1:30:03like like a dried heart,
1:30:06like a heart from an animal
1:30:08and I believe that was a santeria
1:30:11ritual.
1:30:13And
1:30:14that was scary.
1:30:16To be out there looking for a body and
1:30:18seeing this strange little ritual set up
1:30:20in the middle of a railroad track.
1:30:23I had a really hard time with that. I
1:30:26thought, "My God, what if
1:30:28the people who killed her were like
1:30:30putting a spell on someone?" I don't
1:30:32know.
1:30:33Anyway, they never found Mrs.
1:30:35Silverman's body.
1:30:37They believe that the house next door
1:30:39that was being built that she was in the
1:30:42foundation and cement was poured on top
1:30:44of her. That's what they believe, but
1:30:47how are we going to prove it? We'd have
1:30:49to take down a whole building.
1:30:50>> Do you do you believe in ghosts and
1:30:52stuff?
1:30:52>> You know, generally speaking, I don't
1:30:55believe in ghosts. However, in my
1:30:57family, there is an absolute ghost in my
1:31:00great-grandmother's home where my mother
1:31:02grew up.
1:31:04Um my mother was a little girl. She'd
1:31:07sleep upstairs in this old house.
1:31:09And at night she would hear people
1:31:12crying and fighting, a man and a woman,
1:31:14a long way off.
1:31:17And then
1:31:18when we were kids, as we got older, you
1:31:20know, she used to say to my my
1:31:21great-grandmother, "What is that?" She
1:31:23said, "Oh, it's nothing, people
1:31:24fighting."
1:31:25Then when I got older, as kids we used
1:31:27to play there and we'd go up the stairs
1:31:29and we when we got to the stair landing
1:31:33your belly your belly sinks and it's a
1:31:35cold feeling. So, we'd run very fast
1:31:38right through.
1:31:39And I asked my mother about it and she
1:31:42asked her grand her grandmother again.
1:31:45And she finally told her that my
1:31:47great-uncle Al
1:31:50was very very jealous of his beautiful
1:31:52wife Cora.
1:31:53And he thought that she was flirting
1:31:56with a young man who worked in the
1:31:57grocery store.
1:31:59And they were fighting and crying.
1:32:02and
1:32:03there was a loud shot heard,
1:32:06and someone ran upstairs and found Al
1:32:09dead on the on the stair landing. Cora
1:32:12was nowhere to be found. So, they
1:32:15assumed that she had run away with this
1:32:18young man that she was interested in, or
1:32:20he thought she was interested in.
1:32:23So, they had the funeral downstairs, as
1:32:26we used to do in those days, and the
1:32:29body was in the casket, and everyone was
1:32:31talking about where did Cora go? Did she
1:32:34go back to Italy?
1:32:36And um
1:32:38then some workmen went upstairs to fix a
1:32:41furnace in that room,
1:32:43and they screamed
1:32:45because hidden behind the little
1:32:48furnace, the heater, was the body of a
1:32:50young woman stuffed into a trunk, and
1:32:53her arm was hanging out.
1:32:55And it was Cora.
1:32:58So, what my uncle Al did was shoot her,
1:33:02put her in the trunk, and then shoot
1:33:04himself.
1:33:06And
1:33:07you [clears throat] can hear those
1:33:08noises there, and you can feel the cold
1:33:11even today. Even today. So, how can I
1:33:14not think that there might be something
1:33:17to it? Maybe.
1:33:19>> But, do you think you hear them because
1:33:22you can imagine because you have lived
1:33:24that,
1:33:25not because the ghost is still there?
1:33:30>> I think that metaphysically, what I
1:33:33believe is that
1:33:35our bodies are matter, and that what
1:33:38makes us alive, which gives us you know,
1:33:40we call it a soul, it's energy. It's
1:33:43universal energy that comes from the
1:33:45great source.
1:33:47And
1:33:48when we die, the energy just leaves and
1:33:50goes back to the source, and that's
1:33:52that.
1:33:53However, if there is something so
1:33:55painful, so emotional, so
1:33:58horrifying [gasps]
1:33:59that the soul is blocked somehow from
1:34:02leaving?
1:34:04Perhaps that's what we're sensing there,
1:34:06that little bit of energy on the
1:34:07stairway.
1:34:09>> Yeah, that's that's what they say in our
1:34:11religion as well.
1:34:12>> Oh, no kidding, yeah?
1:34:13>> Yeah, like if
1:34:15there's an unfinished business of the
1:34:17soul, the soul stays there.
1:34:19>> Mhm.
1:34:20>> It'll find its way
1:34:22and it'll keep suffering until it finds
1:34:24its way to actually finish the work or
1:34:26the purpose why it was there on
1:34:29why there was life.
1:34:30>> Wow.
1:34:30>> And then once you have finished [snorts]
1:34:32that purpose, you've achieved that
1:34:33purpose, then you actually get free. Or
1:34:36else you keep suffering.
1:34:38>> I wonder if I could go there and help
1:34:39them
1:34:41to get over there
1:34:43to get over their pain and let go and go
1:34:45back to
1:34:47the source.
1:34:49And perhaps they'll come back in other
1:34:50pieces or other people.
1:34:53Uh or maybe they'll break through the
1:34:55cycle of reincarnation.
1:34:56>> Yeah, you believe in reincarnation and
1:34:59stuff?
1:34:59>> Well, I believe that when a new body is
1:35:01born, that another packet of energy
1:35:04comes into that baby as they're born.
1:35:08And makes it alive. So,
1:35:11sometimes
1:35:12that whole packet might contain
1:35:15the
1:35:17the the memories, the thoughts, the
1:35:19feelings of someone who died before.
1:35:21Sometimes it's a little tiny bit of that
1:35:23packet cuz they all get mixed up.
1:35:26So, there are some people who can talk
1:35:29about a life and describe it from 50
1:35:32years ago before they were born. They
1:35:34say, "Oh, that was my life." I know a
1:35:37little boy,
1:35:39uh at 5 years old, we were having dinner
1:35:41with his parents
1:35:42and
1:35:44he suddenly started crying and said,
1:35:47"Mama, when I come back, I want to come
1:35:50back into this family." And she said,
1:35:53"What?" He said, "Yeah, I I want to come
1:35:55back in your stomach. I I want to come
1:35:58to this family again." And he was really
1:36:00upset. And she said, "Of course you can
1:36:03come back here."
1:36:04And he was like, "Mama, please promise
1:36:07me I can come to this family." Well, he
1:36:09scared the hell out of me.
1:36:11Because the emotion was so real and I
1:36:14could see
1:36:15that he wasn't making this up. He was
1:36:17just a little boy.
1:36:19So,
1:36:20yeah.
1:36:22And of course that scares me because my
1:36:24life is so wonderful now. It's had its
1:36:26ups and downs, [laughter]
1:36:28but
1:36:29and things have been tough, but each of
1:36:31those things taught me something and now
1:36:33I've come to a place of peace.
1:36:36As much as I can hold on to that
1:36:38because, you know, the world is going
1:36:40crazy. But, um
1:36:43I wouldn't mind coming back.
1:36:45Maybe as a French woman.
1:36:47>> [laughter]
1:36:50>> That would be fun.
1:36:51>> Does it ever happen that a family killed
1:36:54some family member?
1:36:56They make it look like it's normal.
1:36:58>> Mhm.
1:36:59>> And then they [clears throat] close the
1:37:00shut like they close the case because
1:37:03nobody's actually complaining to police.
1:37:05>> That's right.
1:37:06>> Does that happen a lot?
1:37:07>> Sure it does.
1:37:09>> The state or the police is not like,
1:37:11"Hey, no, we need to investigate and
1:37:12figure out." Or they're like, "Let it be
1:37:14if the family doesn't object."
1:37:16>> Well, here's what happens. There was a
1:37:18case I had
1:37:20where
1:37:21um two men lived with their old mother.
1:37:27And uh she died at home.
1:37:30And uh they called the
1:37:33uh the ambulance who pronounced her dead
1:37:35and they called her family doctor and
1:37:37said, "Look, Mom died in her sleep last
1:37:39night."
1:37:41And the family doctor said, "Yes, I'm
1:37:42not surprised. So, I'll sign a death
1:37:44certificate." Nobody called us, right?
1:37:48So, they buried her in New Jersey in a
1:37:51grave
1:37:52very quickly and then they had her
1:37:54inheritance.
1:37:56Then, we got some calls to the police
1:38:00when neighbors were saying, "Look, I
1:38:02know that lady just died, but her sons,
1:38:05they used to hit her.
1:38:07She always had bruises.
1:38:10She always had something wrong. She was
1:38:12always injured.
1:38:14She could barely walk out of the house.
1:38:17It was very and the police
1:38:19[clears throat] were like, "Well, you
1:38:20know, I mean, this is
1:38:23can you give us anything more specific?"
1:38:25Well, yeah, one time she had her arm in
1:38:27a sling. I think it was broken.
1:38:30And so, it got to a point where these
1:38:32people gave so much information that the
1:38:34police called us and said, "Look, we
1:38:36think you should dig up her grave and
1:38:38let's have a look."
1:38:40Right? And we did.
1:38:42Now, this poor lady,
1:38:44was she buried in a nice burial robe?
1:38:46No, she was in a dirty old house dress
1:38:49and torn underwear as if they just threw
1:38:51her in the cheapest coffin they could
1:38:53find and buried her.
1:38:55They said closed casket, nobody nobody
1:38:58sees her.
1:38:59We dug her up and she did have injuries
1:39:02all over. Bruises, old healed broken
1:39:06bones.
1:39:08>> [gasps]
1:39:08>> I believe
1:39:10that they actually beat her.
1:39:13But,
1:39:14can I prove it? Maybe she fell down a
1:39:17lot.
1:39:19And that's what the son said. Oh, she
1:39:21was always hurting herself, always
1:39:22falling down.
1:39:24But to me,
1:39:25the kicker was the fact that they just
1:39:28threw her in the grave
1:39:30without even putting her in a decent
1:39:31dress.
1:39:33So,
1:39:34I feel
1:39:36like, yeah,
1:39:37they hurt her and she died from that.
1:39:40Who can prove it, though?
1:39:41>> Nobody. Nobody. It's hard. I hate those
1:39:44cases.
1:39:45>> Usually when somebody kills somebody the
1:39:48murderers, what are the biggest mistakes
1:39:51murderers make?
1:39:52>> Hm, thinking that they won't get caught.
1:39:55They think they're so smart sometimes.
1:39:57Oh, going to wear gloves so that um
1:40:01I don't leave any fingerprints. Yeah.
1:40:03I'm going to clean up all the blood.
1:40:05I'll use ammonia. Yeah, ammonia is good
1:40:08for cleaning up blood.
1:40:09Well, they're wrong on two counts. One
1:40:13the inside if you use a glove like a
1:40:16dishwashing glove to kill and you're
1:40:18killing someone and then you just take
1:40:21off the gloves, rinse the the blood off,
1:40:23and put them in the sink I can go inside
1:40:26that glove and get your DNA.
1:40:29That's number one. Number two, ammonia
1:40:32does not kill blood. It doesn't kill
1:40:35DNA. Right? It cleans it up, but there's
1:40:38still traces. So, the crime scene unit
1:40:41will bring in alternate light sources,
1:40:43special lights that they can shine on
1:40:45the wall. They spray a a thing called uh
1:40:48luminol, and that makes the blood shine
1:40:51like fluoresce, and we can see the blood
1:40:54on the wall or the blood on the guy's
1:40:56shoes. So, yeah, they think they're
1:40:58smart. They Oh, I know how to cover up a
1:41:00murder. No, you don't.
1:41:02>> You cannot smart them.
1:41:03>> That's right. That's right. And the
1:41:04police, the crime scene unit, they know
1:41:07every trick.
1:41:08>> Hm.
1:41:09>> Mhm.
1:41:09>> And if you have to draw um let's say if
1:41:12I give you this to draw
1:41:15what are the four biggest categories or
1:41:18what are the four biggest reasons why
1:41:19people kill?
1:41:20Are there four
1:41:21>> the four biggest reasons why they kill?
1:41:23>> Yeah, so what would be those?
1:41:24>> Okay.
1:41:29Okay.
1:41:32Money.
1:41:38Hate.
1:41:42Revenge.
1:41:58Check.
1:41:59>> What is it? Money hate.
1:42:01>> Money and business.
1:42:03All right.
1:42:03>> Okay. Hate revenge.
1:42:05>> Hate, you know, like I don't like
1:42:06foreigners. I'm going to I'm going to go
1:42:09shoot them. You know how these young
1:42:10crazy people do this?
1:42:11>> Really?
1:42:12>> Yeah.
1:42:13>> They just want to kill, let's say
1:42:14>> Yeah, yeah. Remember that kid who went
1:42:16into a demonstration? I think it was
1:42:18Palestinian people. He just started
1:42:20shooting at people.
1:42:22They kill out of hate
1:42:24because they're frightened of
1:42:26foreign people.
1:42:27>> Is it because of race, color?
1:42:29>> Yeah, race, color, religion, being gay,
1:42:32any of those things. Yeah.
1:42:34>> Okay.
1:42:36>> Revenge.
1:42:38>> This is personal.
1:42:39>> Your husband has cheated on you
1:42:41and he's been doing it for a long time.
1:42:44He made a fool out of you. All right,
1:42:46I'm going to hire a couple of guys to
1:42:47come and kill him.
1:42:49And then, here's a big one.
1:42:52A man's cheating on his wife.
1:42:55He finds, you know,
1:42:57she's been boring to him.
1:43:00He's getting older. He wants to have
1:43:02young women.
1:43:04And then he falls in love with a young
1:43:05woman.
1:43:06And now he wants to get a divorce, but
1:43:09he doesn't want his wife and children to
1:43:10have his money.
1:43:12So, what should he do? Hmm.
1:43:14Let's see. Either I could give her child
1:43:17support and pay her alimony, or if I
1:43:20could get rid of her, then I keep all my
1:43:23money and my girlfriend and I can go get
1:43:26married.
1:43:27That happens a lot.
1:43:29>> Is that a big reason you have put it in
1:43:30the top four?
1:43:32>> Yeah, well.
1:43:33What else is there? What other reasons
1:43:34can you think of to kill people?
1:43:36>> that is a big reason. It happens a lot.
1:43:38>> Sure. Look at these American shows. Uh
1:43:41look at like Scott Peterson. Um
1:43:44all these these things where the
1:43:47the wife, they say she commits suicide.
1:43:50And then everything starts to look
1:43:52funny. And then when you begin
1:43:53investigating, you find out he has a
1:43:55girlfriend.
1:43:56Then you go talk to the girlfriend, and
1:43:58she's frightened. She knows if this man
1:44:01she loves killed his wife, he could kill
1:44:05her.
1:44:06>> Yeah.
1:44:07So, they tell the story.
1:44:09>> So, if if you had to point out, let's
1:44:11say out of 100 deaths, hm what would be
1:44:16how many would be this this rough
1:44:17estimation?
1:44:18>> on the year. Now, when I first started
1:44:20out in the business in 1992,
1:44:23we were getting about 2,400 homicides
1:44:26every year just in New York City.
1:44:29So,
1:44:31about 70% of them were business.
1:44:34>> Drugs.
1:44:35>> drugs. That was the crack epidemic. That
1:44:37was, you know, drugs were driving people
1:44:39crazy. There was all those uh
1:44:41you know, the cocaine wars, all that
1:44:44stuff. So, it was business. And they are
1:44:45very very hard to solve
1:44:48because it's two unknown guys. One
1:44:50shoots the other one,
1:44:51kills him.
1:44:52Then the victim, his brother comes and
1:44:55shoots other members of the gang. And it
1:44:57goes back and forth, and they're killing
1:44:59each other left and right. That was the
1:45:01big majority.
1:45:02Then the personal killings, you know,
1:45:05husband wants to get rid of his wife.
1:45:08Yeah.
1:45:09Kills her. That's That would probably be
1:45:11number two is the personal. Or like
1:45:14someone broke your heart.
1:45:16You got to strangle her.
1:45:18>> What about today?
1:45:19>> Hm?
1:45:20>> What would it be like today?
1:45:22>> You know, I don't really know right now.
1:45:24This This hardly any homicides in New
1:45:26York, maybe 300, 350.
1:45:30So
1:45:31some of them are like oh, the hate, like
1:45:33the guy Luigi who allegedly
1:45:37you know, shot a man who's a working in
1:45:40a pharmaceutical company. He hates him.
1:45:42I'm just going to shoot him on the
1:45:43street.
1:45:44Um
1:45:45>> Today the hate would be the biggest?
1:45:48>> Not the biggest, no.
1:45:49>> Out of all four, which one like what
1:45:51would be scenario like today?
1:45:52>> Hm.
1:45:53>> Would be like top four?
1:45:55>> The top two would be money and business
1:45:59and the personal, you know, between a
1:46:02couple or people in a family.
1:46:05Revenge is not that much. And hate
1:46:10it doesn't happen that much in New York,
1:46:12certainly. So it's kind of hard to give
1:46:14you a breakdown, but I'd say the two
1:46:16major ones
1:46:17>> This and this.
1:46:18>> Money and business and then personal,
1:46:20jealousy, love, wanting to get rid of
1:46:23your family so that you can go live with
1:46:25a mistress on the Caribbean island.
1:46:28>> [laughter]
1:46:30>> How do they live after doing this?
1:46:32>> I don't know.
1:46:34Because, you know, you see them, they
1:46:35get arrested.
1:46:37They go to trial and they're found
1:46:39guilty and now they're going to be in
1:46:42jail for the rest of their lives. These
1:46:44these guys like only 40 years old.
1:46:47And that's it. Your life is over. Why
1:46:50don't you just pay your the damn money?
1:46:53Pay for your children's education. Pay
1:46:55for your wife who helped you build your
1:46:56business.
1:46:58It's just money.
1:47:00>> I did.
1:47:01Are there signs that somebody will turn
1:47:03into a killer?
1:47:06>> Rage.
1:47:08You know, these these personal killings
1:47:11the
1:47:12I think a lot of times if they're done
1:47:14in a psychotic rage, like he just you
1:47:17can't stand it anymore and you kill
1:47:18someone.
1:47:20And um
1:47:22that would be a person who was
1:47:25known to be rageful. Have temper I you
1:47:28know have attacks of
1:47:30anger and rage or beat their wife or
1:47:33beat their husband. Some women hit their
1:47:35husbands, yeah.
1:47:36Yeah, so they have rage. I don't know
1:47:39why, but it's part of their
1:47:40psychological makeup.
1:47:43>> Do you have you spent enough time in New
1:47:45York understanding deaths?
1:47:47>> All my life.
1:47:49>> So
1:47:49if I show you a map of New York, can you
1:47:52tell me what kind of neighborhoods will
1:47:54have what kind of homicides or deaths?
1:47:57>> No.
1:47:57>> No?
1:47:58>> I can tell you what neighborhoods have
1:47:59the most homicides.
1:48:01>> Okay.
1:48:02>> That would be
1:48:04um in Brooklyn.
1:48:05>> If I show you this
1:48:06>> Certain neighborhoods in Brooklyn.
1:48:08>> Let's see.
1:48:09>> You're going to make me draw things.
1:48:11>> For this.
1:48:12>> You can all right.
1:48:13>> it out.
1:48:14>> Okay, let's see. In Brooklyn, I I would
1:48:16say that East New York has a good
1:48:18number.
1:48:19>> Why?
1:48:19>> Crown Heights Heights because there's
1:48:21still poor people that live there.
1:48:24Uh there's still people that you know
1:48:26sell drugs. Um but you know what's
1:48:28interesting is that Brooklyn is really
1:48:30changing and it's now in many ways more
1:48:32expensive than Manhattan.
1:48:35Now as more young people move there,
1:48:37young people with money, it gets
1:48:38gentrified and then the poor people are
1:48:41pushed out. And then they go do
1:48:43homicides elsewhere.
1:48:44In Manhattan, it would probably be up
1:48:46here in the 34th precinct. That used to
1:48:49be the most homicides in Manhattan. I
1:48:52don't know what it is now. And then in
1:48:54the Bronx, it would be scattered around
1:48:56places like
1:48:58>> [gasps]
1:48:58>> oh what used to be the maybe it still is
1:49:02um the market area. With trucks coming
1:49:05in and out delivering food and meat and
1:49:07things like that and people used to rob
1:49:09them rob the truck drivers. There used
1:49:11to be prostitutes down there and then
1:49:14they were easy to kill.
1:49:16>> That's Staten Island and Queens?
1:49:17>> No, Staten Island, nothing. Nothing.
1:49:20>> Queens?
1:49:21>> Queens, maybe a few, but they'd be
1:49:23personal.
1:49:24>> They won't be like
1:49:25>> No, they won't be like crazy, you know,
1:49:27drug drug things. But, you know, in
1:49:30Brooklyn around the projects
1:49:33you know, the the housing areas where
1:49:35there's government housing
1:49:37you know, that's where you get kids with
1:49:39guns, like just shooting at each other
1:49:42and they hit innocent people.
1:49:44You know? So, but it's so hard to tell
1:49:47if you only have 350 homicides. Like,
1:49:50what are the statistics?
1:49:52>> But, what's the most unsafe area today?
1:49:54Which one is the most un- unsafe area in
1:49:56New York?
1:49:57>> Oh. You know what? I couldn't say
1:49:59because there aren't really many areas
1:50:01left.
1:50:02>> Still, if you had to still point out
1:50:03like there's still there is some left.
1:50:06>> There actually is not any county or town
1:50:10or area that I could point to. It's more
1:50:12scattered now. There's nothing. It's
1:50:15just everywhere. Just in any country in
1:50:17this world
1:50:19you can have areas where crazy people
1:50:21just go out and kill someone. Or look at
1:50:24the school shooters. My God. My God. Why
1:50:27is that happening?
1:50:29That is one of the strangest phenomena
1:50:31I've ever seen.
1:50:33>> And it's happening left, right, center.
1:50:34You keep hearing about
1:50:36almost every state.
1:50:38>> Yeah.
1:50:38>> Like California.
1:50:40>> Mhm.
1:50:41>> I mean, and you would assume that
1:50:43California is safe and it's rich and
1:50:45it's great.
1:50:46>> It Yeah, like Connecticut.
1:50:48>> Yeah.
1:50:48>> A very wealthy town, nice schools,
1:50:51little children
1:50:53and some guy Dylan, whatever his name
1:50:55was. We don't even say their names
1:50:57anymore because they should disappear
1:50:58from history.
1:51:00Goes in there with a gun and just starts
1:51:02shooting little children.
1:51:05And then, what did they do? They killed
1:51:07themselves.
1:51:09And I say, "Wait a minute. If you're
1:51:10going to kill yourself, please, just do
1:51:12it.
1:51:13Why do you need to take other people
1:51:15with you?
1:51:17Well, there's a reason, because they're
1:51:19angry.
1:51:20They are
1:51:22young, teenage boys who are confused and
1:51:26lonely
1:51:27and frightened
1:51:29and they take a few drugs, even just
1:51:32smoking pot, and it makes them worse.
1:51:34And they start to think everyone in the
1:51:35world is against them.
1:51:38And they get darker and darker in their
1:51:40minds. And they're so angry. They feel
1:51:42like the world is against me. Why don't
1:51:44people be nice to me?
1:51:47Well, because you act like a lunatic.
1:51:49You walk around the school in black
1:51:50clothes with, you know, hoods on and
1:51:54and then they just go and shoot
1:51:56children. It's because they are enraged
1:51:59with anger and unhappiness.
1:52:02>> Your first suicide case that you
1:52:04investigated
1:52:05was about an angry man.
1:52:08>> Oh, yes.
1:52:10>> And you were about to kill yourself.
1:52:11>> Oh my god, that was the craziest case.
1:52:14Yeah, that's the first what story in the
1:52:17book.
1:52:18Um
1:52:19this man, uh I was called. They said,
1:52:21"Uh there's a suicide. There's a guy
1:52:23hanging in his apartment." And it was
1:52:25late at night, and I went over there,
1:52:27and um all the lights were out. The cops
1:52:30said, "Well, I think the electricity was
1:52:33turned off. Probably he didn't pay his
1:52:35bills." Very dark. He had a flashlight,
1:52:37and I had a flashlight. So, you know, I
1:52:40go in and look at the guy, and it's just
1:52:42a heavy
1:52:43man, white man, very pale.
1:52:46And he's just hanging from a pipe.
1:52:49Um nothing unusual.
1:52:52Uh you know, his feet were touching the
1:52:53ground because it stretches the rope. He
1:52:55just
1:52:57cut off blood supply.
1:53:00And the apartment was so sad and lonely
1:53:03looking. It just had stacks of dirty old
1:53:06newspapers.
1:53:07The sheets on the bed were filthy.
1:53:10The the
1:53:12furniture was just old and dirty, and it
1:53:15just looked awful. Even the windows were
1:53:17just covered with filthy old shades.
1:53:20And it was dark in there.
1:53:23And um you know, the cop I was teasing
1:53:26him. I said, "Where are the detectives?"
1:53:28He said, "Well, you know, they came here
1:53:29earlier
1:53:30and then they said, 'Oh, it's a
1:53:32suicide.' And they left."
1:53:34I said, "Well, that's not very nice. I
1:53:36wanted to come up and hang around with
1:53:37the guys and, you know, talk about the
1:53:39case."
1:53:40So, um I went in there and I looked
1:53:42around and everything appeared to be
1:53:44like a suicide. Now, I'm taking pictures
1:53:47and back then in '92, '93, we used
1:53:50Polaroid cameras, all right? Before
1:53:52digital.
1:53:53So, I take my pictures. The flashlight
1:53:56lights the flash lights up the body.
1:54:00And I went back to my office. Okay.
1:54:02Now,
1:54:03the strange thing was that I had had an
1:54:06operation on my hand. I was using a saw
1:54:09and I cut through the tendons.
1:54:12And so, my hand was in a cast. I
1:54:15couldn't use it.
1:54:16Normally, what I would do before I left
1:54:19was to cut the guy down.
1:54:22I would hold the rope and then very
1:54:24carefully cut above my hand and let him
1:54:27I mean, I couldn't ease him down, but I
1:54:29could let him down a little easier.
1:54:31Just, you know,
1:54:32didn't break his head.
1:54:34Um but I couldn't do it this time
1:54:36because my hand was in a cast.
1:54:39So, I told the cop, "All right, I'll
1:54:40send the morgue wagon and the guys will
1:54:43cut him down. But please tell them to
1:54:46make sure they cut way above the
1:54:47ligature." All right. And I left. I get
1:54:51back to my office and I'm looking at the
1:54:52pictures and I'm writing up my reports.
1:54:54And I see something interesting. In the
1:54:57flash of the camera,
1:54:58I see that what he's hanged himself with
1:55:01is one of those big outdoor
1:55:03extension cords. They're orange. Very
1:55:06hard, very tough. That's a good thing to
1:55:08hang yourself with. It works.
1:55:10But here's the funny thing. Right next
1:55:12to the body on the wall,
1:55:14the end of that cord was plugged into
1:55:17the wall.
1:55:18I'm like, wait a minute. Why is that
1:55:20plugged in? There's no electricity in
1:55:23the house, right?
1:55:26Then I realized, wait a minute. I think
1:55:29he faked this. What he did, well, I
1:55:32called the cop and I said, "Look, don't
1:55:33let anybody touch the body. Don't cut
1:55:35it."
1:55:36He said, "What's the matter?" I said,
1:55:37"Just go Do me a favor. Turn the light
1:55:40bulbs. Screw them in and see if they're
1:55:42loose."
1:55:43He goes and does it, and yes, there
1:55:45really is electricity.
1:55:47But this guy took out the bulbs or left
1:55:50them so loose that they didn't work to
1:55:52make it look like there was no
1:55:53electricity. And then when he plugged
1:55:55himself in before hanging,
1:55:58knowing that whoever cut him down might
1:56:01get a deadly electrocution shock.
1:56:05But why didn't I get shocked? Because I
1:56:07didn't cut him down. And why didn't I
1:56:09cut him down? Because I
1:56:11cut my hand with a saw. You see how the
1:56:13the powers of the universe work?
1:56:16Sometimes a bad thing happens to you for
1:56:18a good reason.
1:56:20So, I was thinking, "Why on earth would
1:56:24this guy want to do that? Why don't you
1:56:26If you have to kill yourself, okay, but
1:56:29why try to hurt someone else?"
1:56:31Because they're angry.
1:56:34They're so unhappy, and no one pays
1:56:36attention to them. No one loves them. No
1:56:38one is their friend. They're lonely.
1:56:41And they get so angry, all right, I'm
1:56:43taking somebody else with me. And that's
1:56:45how I feel about those school shooters.
1:56:48So enraged. I'm going to make other
1:56:51people suffer the way I do.
1:56:53The parents of these children are going
1:56:55to suffer.
1:56:57Then there's the peaceful suicides.
1:56:59Someone who has a broken heart, just
1:57:01can't bear the pain anymore. They take
1:57:04pills, they drink some liquor, and they
1:57:06go to sleep.
1:57:08And then like people who
1:57:10who jump off buildings, land in the
1:57:13street with a huge noise, and
1:57:16could possibly hurt someone on the
1:57:17ground, hit them.
1:57:20They're saying something. Hey, look at
1:57:23me. Look at me. I'm in pain.
1:57:26And this one case I did,
1:57:30the young woman who killed herself was a
1:57:33student at Juilliard, a music student. I
1:57:36think it was violin.
1:57:38And she wrote a note. She said, "Dear
1:57:40and honorable parents, I am so sorry
1:57:44that I did not make first chair for the
1:57:46violin.
1:57:48I have let you down. I am so sorry and
1:57:51ashamed.
1:57:53Have a nice day."
1:57:55And then her name.
1:57:56"Have a nice day."
1:57:58>> [laughter]
1:57:59>> That is passive aggressive anger.
1:58:03She was so angry at them.
1:58:05[clears throat]
1:58:06She let them down just because she
1:58:07wasn't the best violinist. So, she
1:58:10killed herself,
1:58:12but she made them feel like
1:58:16Right?
1:58:17>> After investigating all these deaths and
1:58:19going through certain experiences,
1:58:22and
1:58:24modern
1:58:25you've experienced thousands of deaths.
1:58:28What do you think? What's the best way
1:58:30to die?
1:58:32>> In your sleep.
1:58:33Absolutely. If you can just go to sleep
1:58:36next to somebody you love after a fine
1:58:39dinner, a good evening,
1:58:42cuddled up, and you just die quietly.
1:58:45>> And then the person you love will be
1:58:46traumatized for life.
1:58:47>> Exactly. Right. They wake up because
1:58:49you're cold, and they're like, "Ah, my
1:58:50god." But here's something I used to
1:58:52think about. I know I don't want to die
1:58:55because I'm having a very, very good
1:58:56life. I want to enjoy it.
1:58:59But in times when I was just depressed
1:59:01or you know, things were bad, I'd think,
1:59:04"I wish that I was 95 years old walking
1:59:08down the street and someone shoots me in
1:59:10the back of the head and I die
1:59:12instantly."
1:59:13And then
1:59:15there would be a big story in the
1:59:16newspaper.
1:59:18"Vibrant, lively woman dies in her
1:59:21prime, shot brutally, murdered in the
1:59:24streets. Lovely, wonderful woman."
1:59:28Because if you get sick and you lay
1:59:30around in bed and it takes you 8 months
1:59:32to die and everybody's like, "Oh my god,
1:59:34we got to take care of her every day."
1:59:36>> [laughter]
1:59:37>> That's a drag. But if you go out
1:59:39dramatically with a big bang,
1:59:42then it's like, "Wow, everybody notices.
1:59:45Poor Barbara, oh my god, she was so
1:59:47wonderful."
1:59:48>> [laughter]
1:59:49>> I love how lively you are talking about
1:59:52death and like making up scenarios and
1:59:55imaginations. Like another day at work.
1:59:57>> It is, yeah.
1:59:59Because I don't mind being around dead
2:00:02people. Now, let me tell you the truth,
2:00:04though.
2:00:05That many of the cases I saw were so
2:00:08bad, so tragic, so brutal that they
2:00:11crushed my soul.
2:00:14How can you do this work and still have
2:00:17your heart?
2:00:18Well, when I walked into a scene and it
2:00:21was just awful, like a child dying or
2:00:23something like that, being murdered,
2:00:26the shock is very bad. And you're like,
2:00:29"No." But what you have to do is drop
2:00:32the curtain. Drop a shield.
2:00:35You have to stop your emotions because
2:00:38you're no good. You can't do your work
2:00:40if you're all feeling, "Oh my god, this
2:00:42poor child." I must be perfect at my
2:00:46work for the victim
2:00:48and for the family.
2:00:50So, I close it down and do my work
2:00:53precisely.
2:00:55I don't miss anything.
2:00:57Now,
2:00:58hopefully, when the day ends, you can go
2:01:01home and lift that shield up and be with
2:01:03your family.
2:01:05Mhm, you know what? After a couple of
2:01:07years, you just can't.
2:01:09>> Do you lose empathy and love and
2:01:13just lose your little feeling
2:01:16when you do certain kind of work like
2:01:18this?
2:01:19Like do you become emotionless? Do you
2:01:21Do you feel numb?
2:01:22>> Not emotionless, but shut down. Yeah,
2:01:25for many years, especially after 9/11.
2:01:29Now, that was
2:01:30tragedy and trauma. It's huge tragedy.
2:01:33And to have to work down there and
2:01:36find the remains of these people and oh,
2:01:39the work was just so awful and it was so
2:01:41frightening because Americans always
2:01:43think, well, we're so safe, we're so
2:01:45powerful. No, we're not.
2:01:48And
2:01:49so
2:01:51>> [sighs and gasps]
2:01:52>> I was completely shut down for a long
2:01:54time. I couldn't keep a relationship.
2:01:57I couldn't speak.
2:01:58Because I'd come home
2:02:02and I was thinking of all the horrible
2:02:03things I'd seen that day and then my
2:02:05partner says, "Oh, look, we're going to
2:02:07have to paint this kitchen. I can't
2:02:08stand this color anymore. Maybe on
2:02:10Saturday you could we could paint." And
2:02:12I'm like, "Oh my god, please don't talk
2:02:14to me about paint.
2:02:16Please don't talk to me about me booking
2:02:18a vacation in Florida. I can't think."
2:02:23I can't. And it's so unfair to the
2:02:25people we love
2:02:27because we're gone.
2:02:29>> Yeah.
2:02:29>> Now,
2:02:31why do I not feel like that anymore?
2:02:33Because I had very, very good therapy
2:02:36through the World Trade Center Health
2:02:37Program.
2:02:39Great therapy.
2:02:40I have a brilliant therapist
2:02:43and um
2:02:45we work on all these traumas until
2:02:48they can fade to the back of my mind and
2:02:50I don't have to think of them every day.
2:02:53So, now I enjoy life completely. I love,
2:02:58I live, I play, I have friends.
2:03:01I enjoy every minute
2:03:04of every day.
2:03:05>> That's amazing.
2:03:06>> It's a gift.
2:03:08>> What can people learn from your work?
2:03:11>> Hm.
2:03:13A couple of things. I think, you know,
2:03:16like the books, the title is What the
2:03:19Dead Know.
2:03:21And what I mean about that is a couple
2:03:23of things. One is they know how they
2:03:25really died and I hope that they will
2:03:28tell me because they know the story of
2:03:30what happened at the end.
2:03:32And I try to read that story by
2:03:34examining the body and the scene.
2:03:37But the other thing they know
2:03:40is the moment of infinite regret.
2:03:45If you're dying and it takes a few
2:03:47minutes,
2:03:48you think, "Oh, this is it.
2:03:51Why didn't I play more? Why did I work
2:03:55all the time?
2:03:57Why didn't I play with my children? Why
2:03:59did I yell at them to clean their rooms
2:04:01all the time? What difference did it
2:04:03make?
2:04:04Instead of cleaning their rooms, we
2:04:06should have been outside throwing a
2:04:07ball.
2:04:09I worried so much about the little
2:04:11things. I paid too much attention to the
2:04:14wrong things. Nobody ever died and said,
2:04:17'Oh, I wish I worked more.'
2:04:19No, they say, 'I wish I had spent more
2:04:21time with people I love.'
2:04:23So, I try to remember that every day.
2:04:27I have my moment of gratitude.
2:04:30Thank you for another day. Thank you to
2:04:32the universe, to the God, to the higher
2:04:34power, whatever you believe in.
2:04:37And thank you for the gift of today, of
2:04:40life.
2:04:41Thank you for the ability to walk. I'm
2:04:43so happy that I can walk and see and
2:04:45hear and taste. What a gift.
2:04:48>> Yeah. It is.
2:04:49>> I'm in an age now where it counts, you
2:04:52know.
2:04:54So,
2:04:55I hope people learn that that you're
2:04:57going to be you know, the death rate is
2:04:58now 100%. Every single person's going to
2:05:01die,
2:05:02you know.
2:05:03>> [laughter and gasps]
2:05:04>> So,
2:05:05I just I believe in the gratitude of
2:05:07every day.
2:05:09>> We all should.
2:05:09>> Yeah.
2:05:10>> And what is one thing that
2:05:14people don't want to hear about death?
2:05:16>> Why don't they want to hear? Because
2:05:17it's they're afraid. Nobody wants to
2:05:19think about their
2:05:20>> What is one thing that they don't want
2:05:21to know about death?
2:05:22>> They don't want to know?
2:05:24Mhm.
2:05:29I think everybody has a belief of maybe
2:05:32there's a heaven or a hell.
2:05:35I think that nobody wants to believe
2:05:38that there is nothing.
2:05:41That's scary to think that
2:05:43I mean, many religions believe that.
2:05:45This is one life, that's it. When you're
2:05:46gone, you're gone.
2:05:48That there is no chance to return to the
2:05:50universal light or the source of energy.
2:05:54There's no chance to
2:05:57come back.
2:05:58There's no chance for anything because
2:06:01it ends and that's it.
2:06:04That's That's sad to think about. It's
2:06:06scary. No, I want to keep going.
2:06:09But I believe that I will. So, I don't
2:06:13fear death.
2:06:14>> What is one advice that nobody should
2:06:16follow?
2:06:17>> [snorts]
2:06:17[laughter]
2:06:18>> Put yourself first.
2:06:20People say, "Oh, oh, take care of number
2:06:22one. Take care of yourself before
2:06:24anybody else." No, that's a that's an
2:06:26empty way of life.
2:06:29We are a global society. We're this
2:06:32nation is This world is now global.
2:06:36If a child in Africa is hungry,
2:06:39it's going to affect me, my karma,
2:06:42[snorts] my life, my reincarnation, my
2:06:45happiness.
2:06:48I don't think that I should just look
2:06:50out for number one. I think I should
2:06:52look out for the people I love and the
2:06:55people I come across in the world who
2:06:57maybe I can help. Can I stop starvation
2:06:59in Africa? No.
2:07:01But can I feed a guy who's, you know,
2:07:03sitting on the sidewalk, doesn't have
2:07:05any money for food? I'm not going to
2:07:07hand him money
2:07:09cuz he might use buy cigarettes.
2:07:12>> [clears throat]
2:07:12>> But I'll go into the restaurant with him
2:07:14and say, "Here, give this guy a meal.
2:07:16I'm paying it for it."
2:07:18That's a little thing to do that has a
2:07:20big impact.
2:07:21See?
2:07:22>> That's beautiful. That's a beautiful
2:07:24thing to say.
2:07:25>> Yeah. So, but we all should look out for
2:07:26each other.
2:07:27>> And the last thing is
2:07:29what is the personal cost that you've
2:07:32paid
2:07:33to become a death investigator?
2:07:37>> There is a personal cost. There is the
2:07:39cost of
2:07:41having shut down from my emotions for so
2:07:43very long, the relationships I lost, the
2:07:46friends I lost because I wasn't there
2:07:49emotionally.
2:07:52There is some health issues from 9/11,
2:07:56of course, but they're manageable.
2:07:59Um
2:08:01but probably the biggest cost is the
2:08:03loss of innocence.
2:08:07I know things that people should never
2:08:10know.
2:08:12I hope that no one ever has to see the
2:08:15things I've seen.
2:08:17Uh so many times I wish I wish I had
2:08:20never seen that.
2:08:22So,
2:08:24I hope everyone
2:08:25gets to live a life of beauty, love,
2:08:28creativity, and joy.
2:08:31If you want to be a death investigator,
2:08:32get ready cuz it's going to be rough.
2:08:35>> [laughter]
2:08:36>> Thank you so much for sharing
2:08:37>> Thank you, Raj.
2:08:38>> stories.
2:08:39>> Oh, thank you. It was a pleasure
2:08:41speaking with you.
2:08:42>> It was pleasure to have you here. You're
2:08:43a fierce woman with amazing storytelling
2:08:47skills and a lot of courage which I
2:08:50believe
2:08:52rarely somebody has. I've never seen
2:08:55that.
2:08:55>> Hi, [music]
2:08:56I'm Laura
2:08:57>> Nice to meet you.
2:08:58>> Nice to meet you.
2:08:59>> Glad you are with us Laura. How are you
2:09:00doing?
2:09:01You are an excellent storyteller.
2:09:02>> Thank you.
2:09:03>> I really enjoyed like the way you
2:09:05explain things. It's
2:09:08quite interesting.
2:09:09>> Well, you know, it's become my salvation
2:09:11because after spending [music] nearly 25
2:09:14years in death, despair, and destruction
2:09:19now I want to do things that are more
2:09:21creative, more
2:09:23more light.
2:09:25>> [music]
2:09:25>> And so, it's telling stories for me. You
2:09:28might wonder, why is a nice woman
2:09:30[music] like me doing such a horrible
2:09:32job?
2:09:34Because it's important to me and I feel
2:09:36[music] like if you can do it and nobody
2:09:39else can, then you should.
2:09:41And I can do it.
2:09:43For some reason
2:09:45I am not
2:09:46frightened by dead people. I don't mind
2:09:48being around them, not at all.
2:09:51They're very safe. It's living people
2:09:54who scare me, not dead people, you know.
2:09:56>> [laughter]
2:09:57>> Thank you for watching this episode till
2:09:59the end. We would love to know what you
2:10:01liked or disliked about this episode and
2:10:04which guest you would like to see on the
2:10:06show. Let us know in the comments. Your
2:10:08feedback help us improve and make every
2:10:11episode a little better. I'll see you
2:10:13next time. Until then, keep figuring
2:10:15out.
2:10:24>> Mhm.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Death Investigator: What Dead Bodies Reveal About Murder | Barbara Butcher | FO575 Raj Shamani by Raj Shamani, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 20,796 words across 3,668 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.