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Dead Lucky: Life After Death on Mount Everest | Lincoln Hall | Talks at Google — Transcript

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0:04Hi everyone and welcome to today's
0:06authors at Google event. Our first
0:07authors at Google event. Today we have
0:09one to follow also in Seville at noon.
0:11Um it's a great pleasure to have Lincoln
0:13Hall with us today. I'll keep this short
0:14since we're starting a little late.
0:16Lincoln is the author of two books
0:18previously, including White Limbo, the
0:21account of the first Australian team
0:23effort to climb Mount Everest, and most
0:25recently, um, Dead Lucky, which we'll be
0:28handing out after the talk to those of
0:30you from the front to the back. So, if
0:33you want to adjust your seat quickly and
0:35move towards the front, um, that would
0:37be much appreciated. For those of you
0:40way in the back, um, Dead
0:43Lucky is Lincoln's account of an
0:48experience on Mount Everest in 2006. Um,
0:51when he was climbing to the summit and
0:54then on the descent, I believe he
0:57suffered from altitude sickness
0:59and lost consciousness and was left for
1:02dead on the mountain and was found alive
1:06the next day. And I think we've had a
1:10number of, you know, pretty incredible
1:12stories from the speakers we've had over
1:13the years, but perhaps none more
1:14incredible or dramatic than the one
1:16you'll hear from from Lincoln today. And
1:18I will let him tell the rest of it. Um,
1:21it he'll be talking and giving a
1:23presentation for about 20 minutes or so,
1:25and then we'll be taking questions from
1:26the audience. If you do have a question,
1:28please make sure that you make your way
1:30over to the microphone here to ask it.
1:32Um, also you can, you know, if you guys
1:35way in the back don't want to make your
1:36way to the front, which it seems you
1:37don't, um, I'll pass this around as
1:40well. Um, we are recording for YouTube
1:42as usual and we're also broadcasting
1:44this to 5 VC sites over the across the
1:47country. Um, so with those instructions,
1:50please join me in welcoming Lincoln Hall
1:52to Google
1:56today. Uh, yes. Well, good morning
1:59everyone. Uh it I must say I never
2:02thought I'd end up in the uh the Google
2:04complex but um I have to say it's very
2:07colorful. Uh and after I guess 15
2:10minutes here I can't really comment on
2:11much more than that except it seems like
2:13a very relaxed place. And in fact,
2:15strangely, when you go to Everest,
2:19uh it can be a very relaxed place. And
2:23uh that's because I guess when you put
2:25together a big expedition and uh I mean
2:28your life depends on getting it right,
2:31all your planning and all your
2:32preparations and all the other stuff you
2:34have to do to to put your life in order
2:36for the two months you're going to be
2:38away. I mean, if you know you're going
2:40to die in advance, you don't have to
2:41worry about all that stuff. But I didn't
2:43know that. But um so when you get to
2:47base camp finally uh
2:49uh you know things things you can just
2:52forget about everything else and get on
2:54with having a great adventure. And I
2:56guess that in life so often we have work
2:59issues we have to deal with. We might
3:00have family issues, relationship issues,
3:02money issues. Uh we've got too much
3:04money, we don't know what to do with it,
3:06that kind of thing. um you know there's
3:08always a overlapping uh projects and
3:13possibilities and problems and I mean
3:16there are on mountains as well but the
3:18thing about climbing a mountain is you
3:20have got one objective that you focus on
3:22for the duration of that expedition and
3:24it's a very clear objective u people
3:26think it's getting to the top well
3:27actually that's only half of it it's
3:29coming back down it's getting up the
3:31mountain to some extent at least and uh
3:34getting down alive and hopefully tagging
3:36the summit on on the way. So, I'll
3:39basically start with pressing the wrong
3:40button like that and then I'll go to the
3:43correct
3:44button. Okay. So, here I am in uh
3:47Everest 2006 just on the glacia just
3:49introducing myself uh somewhat and uh
3:54but the expedition I guess the fun
3:55starts in Catmandeue. Catmandeue I lived
3:58there in when I was in my 20s working as
4:00a trekking guide. It's one of my
4:02favorite uh places in the world. What
4:04what happens here is you um this this
4:08restaurant that I'm looking down on, I'm
4:09on the roof of our hotel. Uh that
4:11restaurant's called the Rum Doodle and
4:12if you've climbed Everest, you can uh
4:14you get to eat there for free. So that's
4:16a very big incentive to get to the
4:18top. Anyway, uh so uh but uh we arrived
4:23there in April, which is the sort of
4:25optimum time for
4:27uh for climbing Everest. the the catman
4:30is is is very hot and muggy and not
4:34really the best time to be there. So, it
4:37was quite a uh uh a pleasure to hop into
4:40these mini buses and drive through this
4:42huge clif in the Himalaya and up onto
4:43the Tibetan plateau. Uh and this is uh I
4:47guess the first decent view that we got
4:49of uh Everest on the on the drive across
4:52the plateau. Uh it's basically a 3-day
4:54drive. We made it a bit longer cuz we
4:56stopped to acclimatize along the way.
4:58The base camp uh the base camp for on
5:02Everest on the north side is uh around
5:0417,000 ft. So if you just drive up there
5:07and then try and uh get into some
5:10serious u uh physical uh activity,
5:13you'll get into some serious death
5:15scenarios because it really is a
5:16dangerous altitude just to go up to
5:18directly. So you've really got to time
5:20your
5:21approach. Yeah. So that's um you can
5:24really see that uh ever sticks up above
5:26everything else, which is what you'd
5:28hope given it's the highest mountain in
5:30the world. Um and here's our base camp.
5:33Now that might look like, you know, a
5:36lot of people's base camp, but that is
5:37actually our base camp. The little tents
5:40off in the background are uh are other
5:42other encampments. Uh I was part of a
5:46fourperson Australian team. There were
5:47two of us uh working in a uh making a
5:50film of the other two people who were
5:52climbing. But we joined this big Russian
5:54expedition and there were about 20
5:55climbers and there were other people who
5:57were trekking and it was a huge uh a
6:00huge um a huge thing. Now you guys
6:04probably reckon you've got some pretty
6:05high-tech stuff here. I'm sure you do.
6:08But this um I don't know if you can you
6:11don't know if you can see that pointer
6:12there, but um that little thing that
6:14looks like a rope is actually a hose
6:16because I'm up on the marine wall and um
6:19behind me there's a big well not that
6:21big. It's probably a lake about the size
6:23of this room actually. And it's quite
6:25deep, this beautiful clear water. And
6:27they got a hose going down the slope and
6:29across to the kitchen tent, which is
6:31that sort of um tent that looks like uh
6:34a Monopoly um you know, the Monopoly
6:37houses. Yeah, that's the kitchen tent.
6:39Anyway, and then uh right over the
6:42furthest um the furthest tent is the
6:44sauna. Russians love sauners. They sort
6:46of they get in there um turn on the gas
6:49uh get really hot and then they roll
6:50around in the snow. So uh uh so this is
6:55very sophisticated. I never had it
6:56running water at a on an expedition
6:59before. Uh uh the the flip side that
7:01sorry the downside is that in the
7:03morning the hoses are frozen. So you
7:05have to do all your uh washing and so on
7:07and uh saunering in the afternoon.
7:09Anyway, so there's plenty to do at base
7:10camp. And this was a very new thing for
7:12me to be on a a giant expedition like
7:15this. all the other expeditions I've
7:16I've the optimum size is four to six
7:18people as far as I'm concerned and
7:20that's the the kind of ex expeditions
7:22that I've put together. So it was quite
7:24different from this
7:25one. Uh acclimatization is vital not
7:29only to success but also to survival.
7:31And what the main thing that happens is
7:35well your body you I guess the part of
7:38your brain that you don't know that
7:40you're not aware there's a part of your
7:42brain that does stuff that you're not
7:43aware of it doing and that's managing
7:44all your all your physiological
7:46processes. Well, when you're in a low
7:48oxygen environment you
7:51uh your body decides to generate a whole
7:54bunch of um red blood cells which it
7:56which it does and that takes about a
7:57month. Uh so you've got a plenty of time
8:00to to wander up the glaciers and in fact
8:02from the base camp to the uh advanced
8:05base camp's actually 14 km sorry 14
8:08miles. Uh so that's quite a long height
8:11hike at those heights. And we did this a
8:13few times to acclimatize. This is the uh
8:16wa that's wrong. That should be
8:19uh it's not 27,000 ft. That's uh should
8:23be um
8:25uh that should be 21,000 ft. Yeah, not
8:2827,000 ft. Yes, I think I must have been
8:31talking to someone when I did that.
8:33Anyway, uh so this is the advanced base
8:35camp at 21,000 ft. And uh that's
8:38actually higher even if it's 21,000 ft,
8:42it's still higher than pretty well all
8:43the other mountains around. That's
8:45Everest in the background and uh still a
8:48fair distance away and still a long way
8:50above. Uh and what's happening here is
8:52the Sherpers are are performing a puja,
8:54a ceremony to sort of uh to show respect
8:58for the gods of the mountain. Now, you
9:00get some really amazing um uh views of
9:03Everest with these amazing clouds here,
9:05but but if you were up there where those
9:08clouds are, well, you wouldn't be there
9:09for long cuz this is incredibly strong
9:11winds and you'd probably get blown off
9:12the mountain. So, it might look very
9:14pretty, but it can also be very
9:16dangerous. And uh I mean this is a just
9:20a one of the many memorials at base
9:22camp, a reminder of the people who died
9:24there. This is perhaps the most famous
9:26death, George Mallerie who died along
9:28with uh Andrew Irvin back in 1924. And
9:31there was there's never been any
9:33conclusive um
9:36just anything conclusive about whether
9:39they reached the summit or not. I tend
9:40to think that they didn't, but um it's
9:42one of those untold mysteries that uh
9:45people kept keep investigating. So uh so
9:49you can see how death might happen. This
9:50is up at around 25,000 ft. And this poor
9:54guy is trying is just looking uh away
9:56from his tent trying to forget that the
9:58thing's just totally been destroyed by
9:59the wind. Uh and then uh and this is uh
10:03the one of the the highest camp and you
10:05can see there that uh well that's not
10:09really providing you much in the way of
10:10shelter. So it might be very beautiful
10:12and all that sort of stuff but the
10:14elements are ferocious. And what of
10:16course you can't see is what the lack of
10:17oxygen does to you. Even if you're using
10:20oxygen equipment, it is still very uh
10:22it's still very hard work. So uh yeah,
10:25we go up and down the glacia. Uh that's
10:27the northeast ridge of Everest we're
10:28sort of heading towards and we turn off
10:30into where we had our advanced base
10:32camp. Uh and then it became time to go
10:34above advanced base camp and onto the
10:36mountain itself. And this is the the
10:38climb up to the north pole. It's about
10:40two 2,000 ft up from the glacia. And
10:43just at the top of the glacia, the top
10:45of the north pole slope is a um this big
10:47creasse. And uh and there's a we've got
10:50some ladders tied across there. and and
10:52that's the sort of uh um if you want to
10:56beat the others to the top, you just
10:57pull the ladders away.
10:59Um but uh uh it doesn't get quite that
11:02bad. But this is the camp at the North
11:03Pole. It's like a village, 23,000 ft. I
11:06mean, that's sort of a ridiculous place
11:07to have so many people. It just uh I
11:10remember the first time I went to that
11:11height, it was you know it was it felt
11:14like uh I was already at the world's
11:16highest mountain but I guess things
11:18changed as there's better technology in
11:20terms of oxygen in terms of
11:22understanding of phys high altitude
11:23physiology
11:25uh and nutrition and things like that.
11:27So what happens is the yaks go up and
11:29down the valley. They take supplies up
11:32and they bring rubbish down. And you can
11:33see Everest, the 14 mi further up the
11:36valley with the wind blowing off the
11:38top. So, uh, uh, we went from, um, the
11:42North Pole, we went and we pushed up
11:44that, uh, that snowy ridge a little way
11:47to, um, to acclimatize climatize a bit
11:49more, went up to about 24,000 and then
11:52headed back down. And then it became
11:54time to actually go for the summit
11:56itself. Uh but what happened there was
11:59and that's actually the North Pole, but
12:01what happened there was that um one of
12:04the uh uh people that I was filming had
12:07a severe breathing difficulty and it's
12:10hard enough to breathe without having a
12:11you know a problem with it and uh so he
12:14had to turn back uh and his part he was
12:18climbing with his father actually and
12:19his father actually then managed to
12:21twist his ankle really badly. So they so
12:23they went home. Uh well, they didn't go
12:26home immediately. They went down to base
12:27camp. Anyway, so this gave me the
12:29opportunity to uh to put away my camera
12:32and just go for the summit myself, which
12:34is what I did with sort of everyone's
12:37blessing. Now I had
12:40um uh yes, so I've sort of skipped the
12:43intermediate part. We've now up at
12:4425,000 ft, which is our camp 2. And what
12:48uh uh it looks quite precarious there.
12:50And we're obviously fair way up in the
12:52sky already, but this next shot shows
12:54the actual slope on the north face. Now,
12:56in terms of rock climbing, that's not
12:58really steep, but it's it's actually
13:00very precarious because what you have is
13:02all this uh I mean, if you think of
13:03roofing tiles, they sort of slant down
13:05like that and shingles, they slant down,
13:07and the idea is it sheds the water off
13:08the roof. Whereas, um with here, you've
13:12got the rock strutter going down like
13:13that. And it's almost like it's designed
13:14to shed the climbers off the mountain,
13:16particularly when you got this loose
13:18shale and then you've only got an inch
13:19or two of snow on that rock. So, it's
13:22very easy, very easy for your boot to
13:24slip uh on that snow through the rocks.
13:27And uh so you that's why I'm only coming
13:29from uh that uh tent just a bit further
13:32up to this tent where the photo's taken
13:34and I've got all my climbing gear on
13:35because uh if I didn't have my iceax on,
13:37I might not be able to stop if I
13:39slipped. So, very precarious. Now, this
13:41is our our highest camp at 27,000 ft.
13:44And and um you can see that's really not
13:47an ideal tent site. And what's happened
13:49there, the Sherpers have just got a
13:51whole lot of these slabs of rock and uh
13:53uh have just tried to make a a sort of
13:56some kind of flatter area. I wouldn't
13:59say level. And then they pitch the tent
14:01and then uh and then they uh then they
14:04put the rope over the tent and tie it to
14:06one of those rocks. And then they cover
14:08that rock with snow so you can't see how
14:09insecure the anchor is. But
14:12um but anyway, that's that's uh it's not
14:15a real not a huge issue because you
14:17actually don't sleep in this camp. So
14:18why why on earth do you have a tent that
14:20you don't sleep in? Well, maybe maybe
14:22the weather goes bad, so you do need
14:24shelter. Uh and you do need some time to
14:26rest cuz what happens here is it's a
14:28very long way from this camp. Same camp,
14:30different view. see Everest up in the
14:32distance, but that's uh about 1,500 ft
14:36higher to the summit, but it's also over
14:39a mile horizontally. So, it's
14:42um so it's a very long summit day, and
14:45by the time that you get to the summit,
14:46you're going to be exhausted. Uh you'll
14:48be dehydrated, you'll be uh uh
14:51exhausted, you'll be struggling with the
14:52shortage of oxygen even when you're
14:54using oxygen. Uh you wouldn't have slept
14:56much over the last few days just cuz you
14:57can't sleep at those high altitudes. So,
14:59you're pretty well wasted when you're on
15:01the top and you're only halfway there.
15:02You got to get down. So, the the
15:04strategy that's been developed is you
15:06start climbing at midnight. Uh get to
15:08the summit early, you know, sometime in
15:09the morning. So, you've got the whole
15:11day to get down. And so, that's why you
15:14don't actually sleep in that tent
15:15because you just lie down there for a
15:17few hours and then get up and start
15:18climbing at midnight. Uh so, I didn't
15:21take any mo any photos in the dark. I
15:23mean, uh uh and if they did, they
15:25wouldn't be worth showing anyway really.
15:27But um yeah, this is I guess the first
15:30light of day and the sun obviously isn't
15:31up yet, but Everest pokes up into the it
15:34pokes up into the sky a long way and you
15:36can just see the glow in the distance
15:38and then this uh light um on the Canon
15:42face which is about a 10,000 ft drop off
15:44there and that's the summit. Well, it's
15:47not quite the summit actually the the
15:49actual highest points about 100 ft or
15:52200 ft along the ridge. Uh but I knew
15:55that so it wasn't such a huge blow uh
15:59when I got there. Uh now I've let the
16:01cat out of the bag that I've actually
16:02got there. But anyway, um that's not
16:04even the interesting part.
16:06So obviously it got lighter as the day
16:09went on. So this is probably I don't
16:10know about 7:00 in the morning, maybe a
16:13bit earlier and looking down on Mount
16:15Maloo, which is the fifth highest
16:16mountain in the world. I was on this
16:18peak in uh 1999 as a cameraman. But now
16:21I was looking down on it and I knew that
16:23we would get to the summit. And sure
16:25enough, uh, a couple of hours further
16:27on, uh, here we are on top. Well, here I
16:31am taking a photo and you can see some
16:33of those prayer flags there looking down
16:34on Changy. Uh, uh, it was a perfect day.
16:39Um, not much space on the very highest
16:41point actually. And uh so uh I mean if
16:45these are the three sharpers I was with,
16:46if id moved back to take the photo any
16:49broader, I would have to toppled off. So
16:51I decided just to take quite a tight
16:53shot. And uh it looks like it could be
16:55down on the beach, but actually it is on
16:57the top of Everest. And uh so we there
17:00was another crew coming up so we wanted
17:03to not have some kind of high altitude
17:04roadblock situation. So or gridlock. So,
17:07so we came down, uh, the four of us and
17:10this other team went up and we just
17:12pulled off to the side here. This is
17:13Darwa took this photo of me. We had a
17:16drink, fresh oxygen bottle, and it
17:17seemed like we had the whole day in
17:19which to get down to a comfortable camp.
17:21However, on this snowy slope, it sort of
17:24gets a bit steeper, but as we went down
17:25this snowy slope, I just got this
17:26incredible feeling of lethargy and
17:29exhaustion. And I expected to be tired,
17:31but this just seemed a bit much. And it
17:33got to the point where I just simply
17:35passed out. Now I don't remember exactly
17:38what happened after that but the
17:39sherpers have told me and I've what what
17:41happened was I had been stricken by
17:44cereble cerebral edema which is um
17:48retention of fluid within your skull and
17:50uh what happens there is it puts
17:52pressure on your brain and your brain
17:53stops working it basically you go crazy
17:56I've rescued someone with with cereal
17:58cerebral edema on on another mountain
18:00and uh he was just he was just
18:03aggressively uncooperative he wanted to
18:06just lie in the snow muttering nonsense.
18:08We had to drag him down and we couldn't
18:10do much of that at a time because he was
18:11a big guy. And um but when we got him
18:14down 2,000 ft, he just really started to
18:16get his health back. Health well he used
18:18to he was recovering and the next day
18:20when we got him right down he was he was
18:22totally fine. But unfortunately in my
18:24case well not only well what the what I
18:29did was uh I wasn't just being
18:31uncooperative. I was trying to go back
18:32up the mountain. I wanted to jump off
18:34the mountain. There were apparently
18:36there were three black women up there up
18:38the mountain. That's why I wanted to go
18:40up there. And um and I was also I was I
18:44I was also I mean think about three
18:45black women. They're going to go in
18:47different directions. So um actually
18:49they wouldn't you could either go up or
18:50down or off. I suppose that's three
18:52different directions. Anyway, uh the
18:54Sherpers unfortunately had seen this
18:56sort of crazy stuff before and they they
19:00clipped a rope onto me and just pulled
19:02me down like a bulock that doesn't want
19:03to be castrated and and luckily they
19:07stopped me from jumping off the side of
19:08the mountain. But I did keep pulling my
19:10oxygen mask off. They are uncomfortable
19:12and they do get in the way of what you
19:14can't see your feet very well. But I was
19:15obviously uh had just gone delirious.
19:19And the thing is, it was a it was a
19:2119-hour day from the time we left the
19:24that top camp till we got to where I
19:27could move no further
19:29because the descent I mean the idea is
19:32you conserve your energy and and I'd
19:35obviously burnt all this energy in my
19:36craziness. So I was only capable of
19:39getting down to 8 uh to uh to 28,000 ft
19:44which is only 1,000 ft below the summit.
19:46It's it's but as you saw it's quite a
19:47long horizontal distance. So that was
19:50where I died. Uh uh Pembbo, one of the
19:53sherpers, um who was suffering some snow
19:56blindness and had a wounded um uh leg
20:00where I I I sort of kicked him with my
20:02krampons accidentally. And uh krampons
20:05being the spiky things you put on your
20:06boots to stop them your boots slipping
20:08in the snow. So Pembber was in a bad way
20:10and he said he he was going to go down,
20:11but I'd have to stay here and the other
20:13sherpers would be there. And I wanted to
20:15say to him, well, Pember, no, look, the
20:16way I do it when I'm exhausted on a
20:18mountain, I have a little rest and then
20:20I get down a few hundred feet or 50
20:22feet, 100 feet, whatever I can manage,
20:24then I have another rest and then I do
20:26another 100 ft or so. And then
20:30um and then then I that's how I get off
20:32the mountain. But unfortunately, I was
20:34so exhausted that I had those words in
20:36my head, but I couldn't speak I couldn't
20:39speak a word. So So that was that
20:41really. And uh so Pem went off and Dory
20:44and then the the other two Sherpers uh
20:47stayed with me and they watched the
20:48signs of life go from my body which they
20:50did. Uh no breath, no pulse, poke in the
20:53eye, no response. Um yeah, so uh there
20:57was radio communication between the
20:59Sherpers and Alex, the expedition leader
21:01down at 21,000 ft. And uh and ultimately
21:06after 2 hours of there being no sign of
21:08recovery from me just staring glassy
21:10eyed up into space um lying down there
21:14in the snow. They told Alex told the
21:16sherpers to leave me uh to save
21:18themselves. But he did give the uh he
21:21did request that the sherpers cover me
21:23in stones as some kind of bur burial,
21:26some kind of sort of respectful uh
21:27goodbye really since they had no
21:29flowers. But um but luckily there were
21:32no stones. I mean, if I had been covered
21:33in stones, I'm sure that when I did
21:35start to recover, well, I wouldn't have
21:37been able to shrug those rocks off. So,
21:38um so that was
21:41lucky. Uh
21:43so, so there I was alone. This the the
21:47the sherpers did go down uh and as the
21:52as Alex had requested and
21:55uh and I was just lying there, but then
21:58I started to experience some
22:00hallucinations. Um but all of them
22:04carried had the element of a sense of
22:06hope and uh and all of them had a
22:10message of of waiting. I just needed to
22:13stay where I was and wait and we would
22:15see what would happen and I would see
22:17what would happen. Now uh and then
22:21uh one hallucination led to the next and
22:26uh and then suddenly I found myself
22:29totally lucid middle of the night, pitch
22:31black, incredibly cold, this huge draft
22:35of cold wind coming from somewhere very
22:36close. So I knew I knew I was on the the
22:39precipice right on the edge of
22:40something. I I didn't know I was totally
22:42disoriented. I knew I was somewhere way
22:44high on Everest, but I didn't know which
22:46particular spot. I felt around. I was
22:48trying to feel my pack, which had a
22:50light in it and had some warm drink in a
22:52in a in a flask. And I couldn't find it.
22:55And uh and I realized one of the reasons
22:57I couldn't find it was that um my
23:00fingers were frostbitten so I couldn't
23:01feel anything. And the other reason I
23:03couldn't find it cuz it wasn't there. I
23:05worked later I worked out that the
23:06Sherpers had taken that with me because
23:08I was, you know, because I was dead. I
23:10didn't need my pack. and it might have
23:11had some uh sentimental uh things in it
23:14that for my family or or whatever. So
23:16there I was with nothing in the
23:19open. It would have been so easy to die.
23:21In fact, I was I felt certain I was
23:23going to die. The the hypothermia, the
23:25hypoxia, the c cerebral edema,
23:27exhaustion, dehydration. I mean, it's
23:30just a total death sentence. And uh
23:33so but I guess over 30 years of
23:35mountaineering, I remember the first
23:37time I gave up.
23:39Well, I got in a situation, a dangerous
23:41situation. Didn't look like there was
23:42any way out of it. This was in New
23:43Zealand. 20-hour day in the dark,
23:45thinking this is it. And I sat down and
23:47I gave up. And then my climbing friend
23:49said, "We might be able to get down
23:51here." And we did. We managed to get off
23:53the mountain. And I thought, "Well, wow.
23:55I'm never going to give up again." And
23:57that that commitment never to give up. I
23:59had to exert that uh uh that um never
24:05giving up response on quite a few
24:07mountain situations, but this was by far
24:09the toughest because there actually
24:11seemed to be no way out. But I knew
24:13that, you know, the only way you're
24:15going to get anywhere is if you try. I
24:16mean, you know, what's what's the point
24:17of just sitting there and waiting to
24:19die? So, I I realized that the what I
24:21could do um was to
24:24uh just get through the night somehow.
24:27And the big motivator for that was the
24:32uh coming back to my family. I mean I
24:35always come back to my family. Once I
24:37had a family, my style of climbing I did
24:39became a lot more cautious. I turned
24:41back from a lot of mountains. But here I
24:43was in the sort of uh the worst possible
24:47situation. But I just had to get back to
24:49my family. And so it was an incredible
24:52uh effort just to given that I was so
24:56exhausted and my brain was hardly
24:57working for me to concentrate strongly
25:00enough on my physical body. And that's
25:03what I decided to do. I've just got to
25:05focus on my body and be aware of my
25:06body. And if I'm aware of my body, my w
25:08my mind won't float off and I won't just
25:10drift into death. But then I sat there
25:13and I found that I couldn't really focus
25:14on my body. So, I had to to do a
25:16different thing and that was I started
25:18to uh to um to just sort of rock from
25:21side to side. I had my my fingers in my
25:24armpits uh cuz of the frostbite. It
25:26didn't really warm them up, just cooled
25:27my armpits. But anyway, that's where
25:28they were. And so I rocked from side to
25:30side and that felt quite good. At least
25:32I was doing something. But then that got
25:34quite hypnotic and I I thought, well,
25:36here I'm going to drift off anyway. So
25:37then I rocked backwards and forwards.
25:39And then I found that rotating like this
25:41and going like that. And if that got
25:43hypnotic, I'd go the other way. And and
25:46in that process, my all my mind could
25:48could do was focus on that that
25:51that keeping that movement going. I'd
25:54actually even forgot about what had
25:56happened to me. And I wasn't even really
25:58thinking about the present because I
26:00mean what sorry I wasn't really thinking
26:01about the future because all I was
26:04trying I knew that all I had to do was
26:06just keep keep involved in this moving
26:09of my body and changing those movements
26:11around and it was a sort of a timeless
26:14experience. Uh but ultimately uh it
26:17really paid off because the next morning
26:19I mean my plan was you know when the sun
26:22comes up I'll be able to see where I am.
26:24I'll be able to see if the cell, you
26:25know, what the next step could possibly
26:27be. I didn't know if I'd get to that
26:29next step, but you don't know what the
26:30next step's going to be until you unless
26:32you try. So, so the next morning,
26:36uh, you know, it's another perfect day
26:39and four climbers came up from, uh, from
26:43down the mountain and, um, they were
26:46heading from the summit and they saw me.
26:49They'd been told to expect to find my
26:51body and not to be too shocked by it.
26:53Well, they were shocked because well,
26:54firstly, I greeted them with uh so I
26:57forgot to change the images here, but um
27:01that's okay. So, um yeah, they were
27:04shocked
27:06because I mean they certainly didn't
27:08expect me to be be alive. The Russians
27:11uh needed a lot of convincing um as well
27:15when the when the word got out. But the
27:17the way I greeted them was with these
27:18words here. or I imagine you're
27:19surprised to see me here, which might
27:21seem like a strange thing to to to say
27:23when when uh you're close to death, but
27:25I think the reason I did say that was
27:29because, you know, I wasn't thinking
27:31about what had gone before behi before
27:33and I wasn't thinking about what was
27:35coming ahead. I was just thinking about
27:37just being where I was. And uh so that's
27:40why I gave this sort of fairly casual if
27:42somewhat eloquent um reply or not or
27:45greeting to them. Uh and initially they
27:47thought I was in much better shape that
27:48I than I was but they quickly
27:50established that I wasn't. Uh the Dan
27:52Mazour who is a the leader of the team
27:54he he was a American guide um uh he sort
27:58of tried to establish where I was.
28:00Djangu Sherpa I mean where I was in my
28:02mind um uh and Djangu Sherper was tied
28:06me onto the rope. I mean I hadn't been
28:07tied onto the rope that was nearby cuz I
28:09was a body. I mean I would only get on
28:10the way I'd only be in the way if I was
28:12a body tied to the rope. So they'd left
28:14me just bleeding off to the side there.
28:16So they tied me under the rope. Um which
28:18is a vote of confidence. And uh and then
28:21um uh Miles Osborne, you know, gave me
28:25something to drink. Uh um Dan and um
28:28Andrew Brashet, Canadian guy who's
28:30actually on Everest. He's climbing
28:31Everest right now. Actually, hopes to
28:32climb it on get to the summit on Friday.
28:34Um he uh uh he was taking photos and
28:38they were also radioing trying to
28:40contact our camp to let them know I was
28:42alive. Finally the message got through.
28:44It took 4 hours or so for some sherpers
28:47of from our expedition who were lower
28:50down at a camp lower down packing up at
28:53the end of the season packing the camps
28:55up. They came up with fresh o fresh
28:56fresh oxygen for me and I uh um once
29:01that came I was then able to to get down
29:04the mountain under my own steam. I mean
29:06it was an inc it was the hardest day of
29:07my life really. I guess the night was
29:09pretty hard but at least I was sitting
29:10down. But here I I I was exhausted. I
29:14was totally drained and um I but there
29:18was gravity on my side and the there was
29:20a much of the snow slope was easy to
29:22descend and sometimes I'd tumble a bit
29:24and gain a few distance a few uh a few
29:26uh uh feet that way. The first time I
29:29did that, I took out the sherper in
29:30front of me. So uh they fixed that
29:33problem by putting me in the front. So I
29:35didn't take any of them out. But yeah,
29:37but and it got to the point where
29:38obviously I had to have a rest. So, I'd
29:40sit in the snow and then I couldn't get
29:42up and and so then the next time I had a
29:44rest, I didn't want to sit down because
29:46I knew how hard it was to get up. It was
29:47just hell, actually. And I finally got
29:49down to the camp at 23,000 ft at about 8
29:52or 9:00 in the dark. And uh and the next
29:56day it was down to base camp. Uh and it
29:58was uh this is where I was sitting for
30:02the night with my hand just that's the
30:04uh the sort of uh 8 or 9,000 foot drop
30:06down the canchum face right there. and
30:08I'm not tied on to anything. So, it's uh
30:10it is pretty remarkable uh that I'm
30:13alive. Um cuz if I had fallen off there,
30:15it doesn't matter how many uh how much I
30:17was watching my body, I was going to be
30:18dead. Um so, it's no I mean, there's a
30:22good reason why I call my book Dead
30:23Lucky. So, where I spent the night and
30:26where those other guys uh stopped to
30:29help me was where that cloud patch is up
30:31near the summit up at 28,000 ft with the
30:34summit being just over 29,000.
30:37that. So there's over, you know, it's
30:39virtually a mile and a half of descent
30:41vertically uh of height gain, height,
30:44height loss that they had to get through
30:46to to get down to the advanced base
30:48camp. And uh you know, the sun sort of
30:52set as they got into the to the north to
30:55the camp on the North Pole. And uh and
30:58then it was actually I felt so much
31:01better after getting some a good amount
31:03of oxygen oxygen in into me during the
31:06night. and uh and back down to base camp
31:08and the expedition doctor Andre um uh
31:12who's from Siberia has treated 300 cases
31:14of frostbite knew exactly what he was
31:16doing and and looked after me very well.
31:18Uh and I was determined to walk down to
31:20the base camp because I was going to get
31:22back to my family but of course that was
31:23very unrealistic. I had a whole toe of
31:25frostbitten as well which I hadn't
31:27really realized at that point and uh so
31:29what happened well this is a bit of
31:31high-tech for you. They'll deliver
31:33anywhere. I don't know. You probably
31:34don't use them, but
31:36um yeah. So, um but they not they not
31:39only deliver computers, they also
31:40deliver people. Um and this is a yak.
31:43And uh I mean it was uh it was pretty
31:46uncomfortable. I actually lost about
31:49oh 35 lb of weight and a lot of it was
31:53muscle. Your muscle gets metabolized. So
31:56I actually had no flesh at all on my
31:57butt. So, um, and this is a cargo saddle
32:00for carrying loads. And there's a little
32:02mattress on there. And I it was very
32:04uncomfortable, but it was actually an
32:06amazingly, uh, luxurious feeling to to
32:09go those 14 miles down the valley
32:11without, um, any effort. And I had this
32:14nice big warm yak because of the black.
32:17It was nice and warm. I could just lie
32:18forward and and enjoy the journey. But I
32:21knew I'd never get it back through
32:22Australian quarantine. So, I had to
32:24leave it behind. So, back at base camp,
32:27um, back at base camp, uh, you know,
32:30immediately I actually had my first meal
32:32in God knows how long. And, uh, but I
32:35wasn't allowed to drink very much
32:36because I was so dehydrated, I had to
32:38just take it in in small amounts and I
32:40just wanted to drink a bath full of
32:41water, but the doctor wouldn't let me.
32:43Uh, we didn't have a bath anyway. We
32:45only had the sauna. But, um, yeah. So,
32:48then it was hopped onto a hopped into a
32:50into a Land Cruiser, pretty beat up Land
32:52Cruiser, and two days of solid driving.
32:55uh down to the Tibetan border and then
32:56finally to Candeu. And here I am in the
32:59clinic and that's Dr. Andre. Um uh he's
33:03got a very dry sense of humor. He he if
33:05he ever gives up medicine, he could get
33:06a job as a bad guy in a James Bond
33:08movie. But um and that's Dr. Dr. P. You
33:12can see my um black toe there. Well, you
33:15uh I wear these pointy shoes to make my
33:16feet look big. Um and uh and the black
33:20fingers which uh I no longer have but I
33:22do have a black digital presenter um
33:25which is very useful. So yeah so I was
33:28there for about a week. I mean they they
33:29couldn't work out why I was alive so
33:31they were a bit nervous about me flying
33:32just because there's a bit of lower air
33:34pressure as well but they decided that
33:36you know well he's been dead anyway so
33:38we'll just see how we go. And uh uh um
33:42yeah and so every day I mean again it
33:44was still stick and hotty stick and
33:46hotty hot and sticky in catmandeue. The
33:49monsoon hadn't broken yet. Uh the and so
33:52it was a lot of germs and a lot of there
33:54was a big danger of my blisters bursting
33:56and getting infected. So every day I was
33:57in here for about an hour and it became
33:59almost like a ritual for me to have my
34:01dressings changed. The media sort of
34:03really like the stories of dead now I'm
34:05dead now I'm not that kind of thing. Um
34:07not that they come up very often. So
34:09these these amazing survival stories,
34:11well these people came across from
34:12London to do the do a dine special on my
34:16my experience and um but then that was
34:20great. But what I was more interested in
34:21was thanking the people who had helped
34:23save my life. Uh Alex is the uh the
34:27balding guy there, the exhibition
34:28leader. Um four of the sherpers there
34:30were the ones who helped me down. The
34:32others just wanted to be in the picture.
34:33Um, actually, no, that's not that's not
34:35that's not fair because they were
34:36actually uh Alex put them on standby in
34:39case they had to try and get get up
34:41there and bring me down on a stretcher
34:42or something like that, but luckily they
34:43didn't have to do that. So, this was a
34:45fantastic thing to be back in Cmenu and
34:47to be able to say thank you to them for
34:50what they did to uh to save my life. But
34:52it wasn't wasn't just the Sherpers who
34:54did bring me down to that 28,000 point
34:56uh 28,000 ft where from where where I
34:59met these guys. The guy with the with
35:01the uh hat on there is Dan Mazour. Uh
35:04and that's um uh on the end there is
35:07Andrew Brash, the Canadian guy, and
35:08that's his wife, Jen, and me in the
35:10middle. Uh and I also caught up with
35:12Miles Osborne, who was the uh the other
35:16uh uh the other Westerner, and here's
35:18Jang Boo Sherper, the the guy who
35:19actually tied me onto the rope. So, it
35:21was fantastic to be able to to say thank
35:23you to them. But not only that, but to
35:25apologize for me stealing their summit
35:27chances. I mean they gave up their
35:30u chance to reach the summit because the
35:334 hours they waited for the oxygen to
35:35come up to me with those other two
35:36sherpers. Um that meant they no longer
35:40had oxygen to do a to safely reach the
35:42summit and back. They judged that there
35:43just wasn't enough oxygen and they
35:45didn't want to risk it. So I apologized
35:48to them for for stealing that and they
35:50they basically were really disappointed
35:52but they they did come back and say well
35:53thank you and really you know the summit
35:55will still be there and uh and if once
35:57you're dead you're dead well so they
35:59say. Um, and uh, and as I say, Andrew
36:04Brash, well, maybe I didn't say it, but
36:05Andrew Brash is actually on Everest now.
36:08And uh, so the, you know, it's always
36:11there if you want to go back. And, and
36:12this was my second Everest expedition,
36:15so I don't think it's going away in a
36:18hurry. So, yeah, it was uh, it really is
36:22an
36:22incredibly beautiful place. It's uh it
36:26was uh the summit was is obviously a
36:29major goal but in fact I didn't even
36:30think about the summit for
36:33um probably a couple of months
36:35afterwards really because my recovery
36:37was was very uh very slow and um long
36:41and uh this is the sort of the worst
36:44part of it where my frost bit what you
36:46do this is 4 and 1/2 months afterwards
36:48and um this is a message from my fingers
36:51saying okay it's time for amputation but
36:53you just got to wait till there's
36:54maximum healing and these fingers are
36:57ready to leave the mother ship really.
36:59And uh uh this is um you know 6 months
37:02later. I've got a few little um uh bit
37:06of damage on the end of my fingers there
37:07cuz I just been rock climbing and uh so
37:11my surgeon reckons rock climbing is
37:12really good for my fingers cuz they're
37:14pretty stiff and putting my body weight
37:16on them is a good thing to do and it's
37:18also good for my spirit. So, uh, I mean,
37:20all's well that ends well. And I'd just
37:22like to sort of, I guess, change
37:23activities and and just say something
37:25about, um, Yogi Barer, the famous, uh,
37:30baseball player, who said, uh, uh, 90%
37:34of hitting is, uh, uh, physical. Uh, the
37:38other 50% is mental. And that and that's
37:41good for joke, but it also has a real a
37:43real meaning uh in my context because
37:46really I did need 140% of what I had
37:48available to get off the mountain. Um
37:51but then uh but then it wasn't a a run
37:54around the baseball diamond. I was that
37:56wasn't my home run. My home run was was
37:58back to the family that uh had been the
38:00the motivation to get me off and down
38:04and back home. So thank you very much.
38:06We've got time for a uh a few questions
38:09if we could.
38:17Hi. Um I was I was curious what uh do
38:20you have any ill feeling towards the
38:21sherpers that left you? And what did
38:22they say when they saw you alive
38:24afterwards? Bugger. We're busted now.
38:27No. No, they didn't say that. Um uh no,
38:31I don't have any resentment. I mean, in
38:33fact, when uh when I did get down to
38:35base camp, some of the the sherpers were
38:37packing up stuff and um uh but Pembber
38:40came and and I, you know, I was just so
38:42pleased to to uh to see him. I gave him
38:45a big hug. He's only about this high.
38:47And um
38:48uh and I apologized to him really for
38:51what I'd put them through. And cuz they
38:54nearly died as well. And he was just
38:56saying, "Look, it's okay. You're safe."
38:58And and there was I had no resentment at
39:00all. I mean the worst possible thing
39:01would have been if I had survived as I
39:04did and and they had died
39:06which could have happened. That would
39:08have been the worst possible thing. So
39:09no
39:10resentment. Yeah. And they did their
39:12best. Yeah. And it was good enough.
39:15Yeah.
39:17Yeah. So in 2004 I tried to get to
39:21Everest base camp but due to trouble in
39:23Nepal I had to move to Ken Chunga and
39:25the whole expedition had to read into
39:26thin air. who are intimately familiar
39:28with your story when we were on the
39:30mountain and I was in Kilimanjaro 2
39:32years ago. So one thing I've noticed
39:33among the climbing fraternity is without
39:35these
39:36sherpas nobody none of us would actually
39:39be up there. We'd be dead in 3 days. But
39:42uh the sherpas almost seem to be very
39:45anonymous in the whole climbing
39:46fraternity. All the glory g goes to the
39:49uh climbers especially the western
39:51climbers who come and climb these
39:52mountains. Do you have any comments
39:54about that? Uh well yeah it can be
39:57perceived that way. Unfortunately the
40:00the way that mountaineering's gone is
40:02that um there are a lot more you know
40:04big commercial expeditions and um I mean
40:07I worked as a trekking guide for years.
40:09I speak well I speak very bad Nepali
40:11actually but um I you know I have you
40:13know very good friends who are sherpers
40:14and other Nepalese um tribal groups as
40:18well.
40:20the there there actually is quite a lot
40:22of recognition amongst the climbing
40:24community but I think when there's
40:26um uh in these big guided expeditions
40:29and a bit like our one even uh with the
40:32Russians I mean the sherpers had a
40:34because it's such a big operation
40:35they're they're putting up the ropes and
40:37the camps and they're busy with that
40:39they're busy with with the logistical
40:41side of it while the climbers the
40:43western climbers are busy busy
40:44acclimatizing so there isn't the
40:46interaction which has been a very
40:48special part on all the other
40:49expeditions I've been on. I've never
40:50been on a an organized expedition like
40:52this before. I've been on 10 major
40:54expeditions and I've always been the
40:56organizer of them and and with sherpers
40:59that we work with. I mean who are who
41:01are friends and so it it is it is quite
41:03different. So that dynamic has changed.
41:06Uh but um I think that they they are
41:09certainly very well respected by as a
41:11trekking guide, you know.
41:14Um everyone comes back with just with
41:17praise for the Sherpers because they uh
41:20I think we perhaps have too much comfort
41:22in our lives and uh the Sherpers, you
41:25know, where they they're born up at 12,
41:2713, 14,000 ft. It's a pretty harsh
41:29environment and they just learn to get
41:31on with what they need to do when they
41:32have a very a fantastic uh attitude to
41:36life. It does even if it's unc you know
41:38if it's a
41:39uh you can um I think their attitude is
41:44very inspiring and they're able to to I
41:46wouldn't say be happy all the time but
41:48they just get on with what they are
41:50doing and there's satisfaction in that
41:52and that's why they're so effective high
41:54on the mountain and they're not looking
41:56for they're not looking for accolades
41:58really.
42:00Um but uh you know they certainly the
42:02climb the Everest climbers the sherpers
42:04some of them have climbed Everest 10
42:05times. I mean they're they're national
42:07heroes. It's just I guess we in the west
42:10don't hear about that. Yeah.
42:17[Music]
42:20Do you feel a pull back to ever you go
42:23back?
42:24Well, I'm actually a director of the
42:27Australian Himalayan Foundation, which
42:28is a I guess a fairly small
42:30organization. It's only 6 years old, but
42:33I'll certainly go back in that capacity.
42:35Um, I have no uh pull to go back to
42:39Everest. I I was actually on Everest
42:41climbing without oxygen in 1984. It was
42:43a new route without oxygen. Uh, I pulled
42:46back from the summit because I felt it
42:47was too dangerous for me. Uh, two of the
42:50guys got to the top. I mean, I've I've
42:51climbed a lot of mountains and I think,
42:52you know, this was such a close shave. I
42:54just don't want to risk that kind of
42:56thing again. I'll be among the
42:58mountains. I might climb some easier
42:59mountains, but I certainly won't go into
43:01those really big dangerous ones. Yeah.
43:03We have time for one more question.
43:05Uh-huh. Thanks. Um, you described
43:08cerebral edema, uh, how that caused you
43:12to go into into death. Um was there any
43:15explanation on what on how you were able
43:17to snap out of it or what caused these
43:19hallucinations or uh not really but my
43:23um
43:26uh my book agent's husband is actually
43:28was a a professor was a head of
43:31psychiatry at one of the major hospitals
43:32in Sydney and I talked to him a lot
43:35about that and uh uh about my mental
43:38state and what he he can't understand
43:40why I'm alive but Uh what he determined
43:45was that I my c cerebral edema was sort
43:48of was I was was sort
43:52of would the the the intensity of it
43:56would would fade and then it would then
43:58it would come up again and that's really
44:00not how it happened. So I don't know why
44:02but there was a another doctor from the
44:04c the Sydney University uh who works for
44:08the center of the mind who who put
44:10forward the possibility that emotion can
44:13actually uh
44:16um change your physiological
44:18circumstances and basically I mean it
44:20was that love for my family that need to
44:22get back to my family that perhaps may
44:24have been able to overpower the cerebral
44:28edema. So uh I mean this is statistical
44:32sample of one. So you know you you know
44:33it's just a theory really but uh I mean
44:36the mind's a lot what I realize is that
44:38the possibilities of what the mind can
44:40do are far greater than what I had
44:43experienced before. So it was losing the
44:46fingers wasn't worth the summit but all
44:47the other insights that I've have have
44:49certainly been worthwhile.
44:52Lincoln Hall thank you so much for
44:53joining us today. Thank you Rick. It's a
44:55pleasure. Thank you.

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