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YouTube2Text → Transcripts → DAY THREE Ex Girlfriend Cathryn Mellender and Her Mom Dulce Testify! Chandler Halderson Trial

DAY THREE Ex Girlfriend Cathryn Mellender and Her Mom Dulce Testify! Chandler Halderson Trial — Transcript

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0:00if you haven't yet hit the Subscribe
0:02like and
0:04[Music]
0:24share hello everyone and welcome back to
0:26another live stream with me gizz this is
0:28Grizzly True Crime and are we ready for
0:30day three of the Chandler halderson
0:33trial it's a 10day trial it took place
0:35in January of
0:372022 the crime was committed where
0:3923-year-old Chandler halderson murdered
0:41his parents and dismembered them on July
0:431st of 2021 so the trial actually
0:46happened pretty quickly after the crime
0:48right yes so we've been watching this
0:50trial together for the first time as a
0:52community even though it's a trial from
0:54the past thank you to everyone who's
0:56been here I'm glad that you guys are me
0:57sending me emails and there's lots of
0:58comments as well and all the live
1:00streams and I'm glad that you're
1:01enjoying the time with me uh before we
1:03get to the new year of course we're
1:04going to be going for 10 days straight
1:06this is day three out of 10 and we'll
1:08watch the verdict and the sentencing
1:09together as well all right everyone so
1:11here is the judge judge Highland are we
1:13ready okay let's put the sound on for
1:15you and here we go I appreciate it very
1:18much um I wanted to uh and I must I
1:22appreciate it very much um I wanted to
1:25uh and I must once again Ask whether
1:27anyone in between the time I saw you you
1:30uh at the end of the day yesterday and
1:32this morning U Were exposed
1:34intentionally or unintentionally to any
1:37information about the case participated
1:38in or had discussions or were
1:41overhearing discussions about the case
1:43or sought any information via any media
1:46whatsoever I see no hands thank you very
1:49much we're going to proceed today then
1:51um with the state's case in Chief
1:53attorney Brown St call D say
1:55melander miss melander good morning good
1:58morning thank you um I have to ask you
2:00two questions first I didn't hear myself
2:03I don't know if the court reporter heard
2:04did you say yes to the oath that you
2:06swore oh I did thank you I say yes thank
2:09you with the masks and and with the
2:12being nervous I'm sure it's it was hard
2:13to tell I wanted to make sure the record
2:15reflected that secondly you just took
2:17off your mask are you comfortable and do
2:19you think you can safely and responsibly
2:21testify without wearing a mask um I just
2:24feel like they won't hear me then I
2:27appreciate that and if you can do so if
2:29if if you're okay being unmasked we will
2:31all except for whoever's asking
2:33questions be unmasked so we have this is
2:36going to be such a good day of trial if
2:38you've never seen it before lucky you
2:41this is a great trial with great
2:42detective work excellent prosecutors I
2:45mean such a nice judge as well shame the
2:48defense they don't have much to work
2:49with but they're trying their best okay
2:52and so this is Chandler holders
2:54girlfriend at the time her name is cat
2:56or Katherine melinder it's her mother
2:59okay okay so that is who is on the stand
3:02now that layer of protection if that's
3:04all right with you please proceed
3:06without your mask on and I'll I'll
3:09remask myself as I'm not going to do any
3:11more talking attorney Brown all right
3:13good morning what we're going to start
3:14with is I'm going to have you tell us
3:15your name and spell it out because the
3:17court report is writing everything down
3:19um my name is
3:21Dolce doul melander and d u l c e m e l
3:26l e n d e r and DL say do you have a
3:30daughter named Katherine yes I do and
3:32does she go by the name cat yes and uh
3:36for for a while uh back last year and
3:39maybe a little before was cat dating
3:41someone named Chandler halderson yes and
3:44um you got to know Chandler halderson
3:46pretty well yourself didn't you yes yes
3:49um approximately and it's okay if it's
3:52just kind of a range how long do you
3:53think your daughter was dating Chandler
3:55around two years okay and um you would
3:58see Chandler pretty frequently yeah yeah
4:02kind of yes okay um so there's this
4:05thing we're going to do now where the
4:07judge in one second is going to have
4:08everyone that is wearing a mask take
4:10them off just briefly that's over here
4:11and I'm going to ask you do you see
4:13Chandler in the courtroom so wait one
4:16just a pause I saw some people had
4:18questions in the comments of like wait
4:20what is this mask thing about obviously
4:22it was during the pandemic when this
4:23trial happen so everybody's wearing
4:24masks and when the judge says can you
4:27all just you know say remove your mask
4:29for one two two three put it back on
4:31okay health concerns but then also so
4:33that they could see Chandler alderson's
4:35face for a second and be like yep I
4:37recognize him that's him right so they
4:38can point him out so far everyone's
4:40pointed him out except one guy's like I
4:42don't know man I didn't see him Spacey
4:44Dove thank you so much one second I
4:47would ask if everyone who's not in the
4:49jury box would lower their mask for the
4:51count of three so that the witness can
4:53observe everyone's faces 1 two 3 go
4:56ahead and replace your masks please M
4:58meler do you see Chandler in the court
4:59room yes can you tell me where he's
5:01sitting and kind of describe what his
5:02clothes are today
5:04um he's with in a uh blue tight and kind
5:09of
5:11white and is he sitting to my left over
5:14here yes I'd ask to reflect
5:16identification it will
5:21um your daughter um in the course of
5:25dating Chandler um sometimes stayed with
5:27you and sometimes she had her own
5:28apartment right yeah yes okay um and
5:32what types of things would you do where
5:34you would see Chandler while they were
5:36dating
5:38um he will cook I we will cook or we
5:42will be order
5:45um uh BDubs BDubs Buffalo Wild Wings yes
5:50yes okay um BDubs I remember watching
5:53this for the first time thinking what
5:54what are be dubs oh like like like hot
5:58wings Buffalo White Wild Wings I think
6:00he said so like chicken wings right
6:02Barbara North said looking very spiffy
6:04and professional today in that gray
6:05jacket love those new specs I'll thank
6:06you so much if you're an OG you might
6:09remember these spectacles okay let's
6:12keep going shame this is like as I say
6:15this trial happened within six months of
6:17the crime so even for chanda's
6:19girlfriend at the time to come to terms
6:21with that before the trial started there
6:22were jail calls that are out there they
6:24are out there okay on YouTube and all
6:25over the place between cat and Chandler
6:28leading up to the trial and she was
6:29really just trying to process like how
6:32did he do this because remember he
6:34invited the girlfriend over for the
6:35weekend they went to uh Do's Partners
6:39farm and hung out and yet Chandler
6:43simultaneously were doing very Sinister
6:45things that they couldn't have compreh
6:46they couldn't have even imagined that he
6:48was doing that so can you imagine how
6:50traumatizing it must be to just sit here
6:526 months later and be like okay I'm
6:54testifying at this trial and it's
6:56literally it's the worst thank you
6:57everyone for the stickers I always pop
6:59them on the screen and they normally
7:00type to you as well if we don't want to
7:02interrupt so thank you so much and would
7:03you see them every day or every week or
7:06a couple times a
7:07month
7:09um
7:12oh well we oh repeat that question again
7:16how often would you see
7:18him uh often when when Katherine wasn't
7:21home
7:22yes um were you aware from Chandler if
7:25he had a job um back in in 2021 before
7:29all this
7:30happened um he was working at
7:34[Music]
7:37um oh what is the name of that can you
7:40give me a second yeah just where did he
7:42tell you he was working cuz we know now
7:44it was a lie he was
7:46working at the swimming
7:49[Music]
7:50um I think he was at DNR or it yeah do
7:55you know what he was doing for them um
7:57well he's a good swimmer so
8:00he was uh he was in
8:03call
8:05to I don't know to to rescue to see
8:08something on the waters I I I really but
8:11it was something with the DNR I remember
8:14he would get called to to rescues and
8:16things like that yes yes yes very I I
8:19think it was very yeah yeah at some
8:21point did Chandler get another job that
8:23you were aware of oh yes um I took yes
8:27tell me about what job was that that was
8:30American Family Insurance and um what
8:33sticks out to you about remembering
8:34about Chandler working at American
8:36Family
8:37Insurance um well I took him out to eat
8:42because he he he got the job but he was
8:46a he had people a group of people they
8:50were put it on for
8:53him um I yes so you took him out to eat
8:56when he got the job yes um where did you
8:59go to eat
9:00oh Mexican rosz he he likes the
9:06tacos can you imagine like shame the
9:10family took him out for a meal to
9:12celebrate that he got the job that he
9:14never got like he that's how far he went
9:17along with all of his Liars I mean what
9:20a cover life he was living really it was
9:21just video gaming at home it sounds like
9:23but he was pretending to have a job at
9:25American Insurance and then he pretended
9:27that he got a job at SpaceX and that he
9:29was going to move to Florida with Do's
9:32uh daughter you know At first she was
9:33like a little worried like what you you
9:36you're going to move to Florida okay
9:39with this boyfriend even though she she
9:41liked Chandler you know yeah can can you
9:44imagine now again in hindsight being
9:46like what so that meal that celebration
9:47we had like thinking back on that memory
9:49and realizing it was a complete lie um
9:52and was this kind of a A celebratory
9:54dinner did people dress up and things
9:55like that yeah he was dressed up really
9:58nice and
10:00did Mr halderson or did Chandler tell
10:01you tell you about the job that he was
10:03getting at American Family
10:06Insurance uh briefly even was something
10:09about computers you know he's a computer
10:12guy sure and he was dating your daughter
10:14at this time oh yeah oh yeah um were you
10:17happy that your daughter's boyfriend had
10:18a
10:19job uh yes was that important to you
10:23object yes overruled the the answer can
10:26stand um what did that mean no it was
10:30all legal nonsense we'll just it's all
10:33it's all right so after
10:35the time you take him out to celebrate
10:38getting the American Family job um you
10:40get Mexican food um did chamra ever talk
10:43to you much about his job at American
10:44Family
10:46Insurance yeah he was working at home
10:49okay that's about
10:52it um did you know anything about
10:55exactly what he was
10:56doing yes computers did you know yeah
11:00sorry go ahead go ahead I think it was
11:02just computers and
11:06um also
11:09I yeah I think it was just computers
11:12okay thinking back to that um that
11:15dinner where you were celebrating him
11:17getting the job at American Family if if
11:19you had to give us kind of an
11:20approximate time do you know when that
11:26was I think it was
11:32afternoon midafternoon maybe I don't
11:35quite remember what time of the
11:37year oh do you know if it was in the
11:40spring do you remember at all it's okay
11:42if you don't no I don't remember okay uh
11:46who all went to that dinner just him and
11:48I oh okay you two together yes okay I I
11:52asked him to meet me there whose idea
11:55was it to go out mine and uh because he
11:58had gotten the job yes
11:59and you paid for dinner I would imagine
12:01yes yes yeah he he he couldn't even
12:05offer to pay right he had a fake job and
12:07they weren't paying him damn it uh X Ys
12:13genx says oh Chand I don't know if
12:14you've seen the interrogation uh that
12:16reminded me that tomorrow on day four I
12:18think that's the day we're going to see
12:19the police uh video interrogation the
12:23police video interview of chander
12:25halderson I'm sure many of us have seen
12:27it before I've seen it a few times can't
12:28wait to watch it with you again or
12:30actually for the first time together but
12:32I can't wait to watch that with you
12:34which yeah I think it features tomorrow
12:36so I hope to see you tomorrow for the
12:38last day of 2024 also welcome to all my
12:41moderators patrons members all
12:43subscribers any locals in chat this case
12:46happened in Wisconsin so if you're from
12:48Wisconsin let us know as well welcome to
12:50you and of course any family and friends
12:53of the victims Bart and Christa holders
12:55Bart was 50 years old and Christa was 53
12:58years old when they son shot them and
13:01dismembered them I mean well um all
13:04speculatively because it seemed like he
13:07was about to be confronted about all his
13:09lies cuz his dad had found out oh my
13:11word you weren't really going to college
13:12you didn't have that job wow that's all
13:15fake he was about to confront him with
13:18all of that and take him to a meeting at
13:20the college and Chandler killed his
13:23father and I think his mother was
13:25probably collateral damage you know
13:27thinking oh well I killed my dad now
13:30mom can you get me some soda and then
13:31when she gets home he kills her too it's
13:33just it's unbelievable what Chand hon
13:35did um so other than knowing he worked
13:38on some computer stuff and for American
13:40family did you know anything else about
13:42that job
13:44really well he wanted to do the solar
13:47panels but I don't know
13:50um I don't know the American family was
13:55getting him for the solar P panels but I
13:57know he was very good in computers sure
14:02was Chandler around this time was he
14:04going to school anywhere while he was
14:06working at American
14:08family
14:09um he was having um he was doing a
14:15credit um because he he was going to
14:21W so he was he he was needed a credit to
14:25go to ww I think I think because C
14:29friends I I yeah I think did Chandler
14:32talk to you much about going to school
14:34and what classes he was taking no no um
14:38it was one class that he needed for
14:40gradu for to graduate he was about to
14:42graduate um I I I think so
14:48okay
14:50um going into kind of the late spring of
14:54last year so may and then into June
14:56maybe the summer into July just before
14:58everything started that bad happened did
15:02Chandler get a new job somewhere else in
15:04the country your honor yes I'm sorry but
15:07can we approach real quick okay we're
15:10going to have a conversation that nobody
15:12else can hear so we use this white noise
15:16or we
15:17teleport that white noise was pretty
15:19terrible I'm GL we don't have to sit
15:21through that live for the trial o it was
15:23like like so loud obviously I would have
15:25muted it for you guys but damn so yeah
15:28we def fluff we teleport the trial
15:30footage we have today is 5 hours and 3
15:33minutes after all the defluffing which
15:34means taking out the lunch break the
15:36coffee breaks and long pauses and some
15:38of the paper flapping okay so here we go
15:40did Chandler ever talk to you about
15:43getting another job somewhere else in
15:44country sometime this past
15:47year um yes and where was that job um in
15:52Florida do you know what he would be
15:54doing or where he be working um he was
15:57supposed to be get samp
15:59s um but I don't know of
16:03what
16:05but but he was going to Florida Florida
16:09yeah did he tell you what company it
16:13was
16:15um you know the very pricey
16:21cars um or
16:24Tesla is a very pricey car I don't know
16:27the the name of the car
16:29is it what what type of car is it oh
16:32like $50,000 car is it Tesla Tesla
16:37yes but um I think Tesla has another
16:43company that is from
16:46Tesla I don't remember the name I'm
16:49sorry did Chandler share with you he was
16:52telling the world he was going to go
16:54work for Elon Musk okay he got a job at
16:57SpaceX but damn man then he fell down
16:59the stairs and had this huge concussion
17:01which was also a lie he sprained his
17:02neck a little bit we'll hear from the
17:04doctor as well but it's like oh my word
17:07his legs weren't working he said he
17:09needed a colostomy back he
17:11needed someone to drive him like he
17:15needed a neck brace that was also a lie
17:17I mean really took his lies very very
17:19far sure and I know he Shar a lot with
17:22your daughter but I'm asking kind of
17:24what you knew
17:25just did he share with you any details
17:28about what this was what do he was going
17:32to get those samples and he also was
17:37working for um the solar panels too
17:40because I think they has something to do
17:42it's kind of an engineering job or
17:44something like that yeah the job in
17:46Florida was yes yes did he tell you you
17:50personally if you'd be making more money
17:52or less
17:54money but he says that he will be have a
17:58good a good job it really good money
18:02yeah did Chandler ever talk to you about
18:05where he was going he had got house
18:07anything um it was an apartment that he
18:10showed me how did he show you um in in
18:15in his uh cell
18:17phone um did he say he had a car or
18:20anything like that um
18:23yes um yes tell me what you knew about
18:27that from ch um
18:29well Katherine has my
18:32car and I I say that you know Catherine
18:37is you guys need a car take my car and
18:40the we were the three of us we were
18:42talking
18:44about
18:45um about the car in the
18:48apartment
18:55and okay there was a moment to pause
18:57quickly Mimi if you are subscribed which
18:59is 100% free you are a Grizzly that's
19:02all you got to do you don't have to be a
19:03member you don't have to join patreon I
19:04mean that's wonderful if you do but you
19:06don't have to just subscribe and then
19:08you're a Grizzly thank you so much for
19:10your
19:11sticker I'm sorry it's just a bed
19:16um
19:19and he um he says there is cars over
19:24there they are very cheap because um
19:29because older
19:32people they're they're kind of they
19:35don't drive anymore or their pass and
19:38then they have cars in there so he was
19:41ordering car the car and I I say that I
19:45will sign my car for they can sell it
19:49and then can buy maybe two
19:51cars oh and then he was he will say oh
19:55we will we will I will taking care of it
19:58she mentioned your daughter was your
20:02daughter
20:04yes
20:07and did sh talk to you about
20:11that uh the day that he brought
20:13Catherine home because she have um an
20:16injury in her back he
20:20did he basically asked me your
20:23permission yeah what did you think about
20:26that I was very worried
20:32why she's my only
20:35daughter I was
20:38uncertain you
20:42uncertain
20:43yes I'm going to start asking your
20:46questions about kind of the Fourth of
20:48July week okay you remember the Fourth
20:49of July weekend I would imagine last
20:51year oh yes yes um on the fourth of July
20:57weekend there were some plans to get
20:59together right Catherine and chander and
21:01other people right
21:03yes um you um we're living here in
21:07Madison at a time right yes but um is it
21:13your your fiance yes Crest yes has a
21:17farm kind of in a rural area of danger
21:20right
21:20yes so it's crest's Farm you're engaged
21:23with us yes we got engaged in May in May
21:28yes
21:30and Crest lives in that farm with
21:33her elderly
21:36yes you go
21:38out I live part time there
21:41yes
21:43judge sorry again but can we
21:51approach
21:53um
21:56well we have a swimm swimming pool and
22:01you know we ask is they want to swim
22:03think can swim or just eat and yeah
22:08where were you going to have this get
22:10together oh at the
22:11farm yeah can you tell the jury a little
22:14bit about what does
22:17it do I have to face them fa me but do
22:23pull the microphone a little bit closer
22:24cuz the the fans are seem fairly noisy
22:27right now go ahead
22:30um it's like a paradise it's
22:35peaceful it's
22:37green and it's flowers that you don't
22:40see it's just it's just
22:44beautiful so the 4th of July weekend who
22:47all went to the
22:52for Chandler Catherine
22:56James uh one of James
22:59friend Chris Michael and Papa and
23:05me did chamber talk at all at the 4th of
23:09July get together
23:12about having suffered any of injuries
23:16inuries things of that I beg your pardon
23:19sure did Chand tell you around that time
23:21about suffering any sort of concussion
23:23or had injury oh we we we know I knew
23:27that he have he had a
23:29concussion
23:31um yeah he he
23:34fell shame but he didn't have a
23:36concussion I think it'll take a while to
23:38really process everything and all the
23:40time that they knew Chandler and to try
23:43to differentiate well what was real and
23:46what was a lie because so much turned
23:49out to be a
23:50lie and was chanler acting the same or
23:54differently than usual on the 4th of
23:57July he he was he was kind of
24:02okay
24:05quiet
24:07um but yeah he was sitting in the table
24:10with the other kids
24:13so what types of things did you do that
24:16day um we ate and um we were waiting
24:21that the kids will be going and ju the
24:24pool and then when in Ju the pool
24:26actually um
24:31just just happy that the kids wer
24:35home the kids used the pool yeah yeah
24:39Catherine Katherine and um and James
24:42friend used the pool
24:45yes so for anyone wondering where was
24:47this paradise that she speaks of right
24:49it was her partner Crescent lasai we're
24:53going to see Crescent on the take the
24:54stand as well and all the observations
24:56of what Chandler was doing when he was
24:58there
24:59which we now know in hindsight he was
25:03disposing his parents well his dad's
25:07torso like human remains that is just
25:10and pretending to just want to be there
25:12for a swim and hanging out with
25:15them but doing that at the same time but
25:17the area where the crime happened was in
25:20DeForest Wisconsin in this really nice
25:23Community Oak Circle is uh where it was
25:25the Forest Wisconsin and yesterday we
25:27saw lots of neighbors testify and I
25:29think they're all Grizzlies they were so
25:31observant they saw something they said
25:33something they took pictures they had
25:35all the ring cam available for the
25:36police like sure download it all it was
25:39really great so if you miss day two it's
25:40all time stamped for you as all the days
25:42will be day one and two are already time
25:43stamped obviously after the stream I go
25:45and time stamp everything for you right
25:46but now that was DeForest Wisconsin and
25:49where this area was Do's Partners Farm
25:53which does look very beautiful they're
25:56going to show us some maps and things
25:57later as well it was in Cottage Grove
25:59Wisconsin so a little drive for
26:03Chandler I I don't know if Chandler got
26:06into the pool but I think Chandler
26:08always was cleaning the the de breath
26:12yeah cleaning the pool yeah he
26:19yeah the next day do you know CH went
26:22back to the farm July 5th which would be
26:24on
26:25Monday yes and how how did you become
26:29aware that CH went back
26:31to because Catherine text
26:36me did you go to the
26:40farm I fly to the farm
26:43yes why you why you fly to the farm so
26:46fast
26:50um I was just
26:53worry
26:56um uh
27:02can I have one
27:04minute there's another bottle of water
27:07oh I know
27:09are do you want
27:11to
27:12um yes do you need a
27:17break yes
27:20okay do you do you think uh that you
27:23need more than just a few moments
27:25outside of the courtroom
27:28just a just a few minutes right now I'll
27:31go ahead and excuse the witness don't
27:32talk about your testimony with anyone
27:34but you can go back to where Miss Brown
27:36is in the
27:41vestibule go right this way you forgot
27:44your mask I'll grab it
27:58[Music]
28:03if it's all right with the jury we'll
28:05just stay you can stand up if you need
28:07to or or stretch um but I think if we
28:10excuse ourselves
28:12and uh additional time as you know
28:14better than I how long it can take by
28:17the
28:18driveway because and so we teleported
28:21okay look at my you guys some of you
28:23know this cup of tea I have a giant cup
28:26of tea I'm just showing it to you I'm at
28:28meting it's huge okay because the minute
28:30I lift it and take it so people like oh
28:31my word look at her mug it's a huge cup
28:34of tea okay um my fiance
28:40sometimes is a big farm so sometimes she
28:44just like to be
28:47with um just no top sure in the pool
28:54um to go to the pool J he just he might
29:00prior to by himself alone without
29:10cat so the better question is do you
29:13know if Chandler usually went out there
29:14by himself oh no so here's Chandler
29:18halderson did he usually go out there by
29:20himself oh no oh bu he did that day
29:23remember they celebrated together on the
29:244th of July we'll hear more about it as
29:26they go through this timeline but then
29:27he went by himself which kind of cot
29:29everyone of God like why is he here by
29:31himself oh no he just wants to use the
29:32pool again meanwhile he had a a Ben in
29:37the back of the
29:38vehicle and his father's torso and all
29:41the tools that he used as well well I
29:43don't know if all but tools that he used
29:45to dismember his parents that he also
29:46put on the property and he also hid the
29:49weapon the SKS rifle on the property
29:52like used his girlfriend's mother's
29:56fiance's property y to stash all the
30:00tools the weapon and then also his
30:02father's remains I mean
30:05wow no Chandler will never go to the
30:08farm without
30:09Catherine so this would have been the
30:11first time that you're aware of yes okay
30:15um so you you drive out to the farm you
30:17flew out there I think you said yes
30:19because I was worried that Chandler will
30:21be had the [ __ ] of his life see and my
30:24partner right um when you get there
30:29um do you talk to your partner
30:32Crest
30:34um when I got there it was Chandler and
30:39Chris talking on the porch you know what
30:43they were talking about did you overhear
30:44it um well I opened the door
30:48and and Chandler looks like sad kind of
30:53sleepy like you know those like I don't
30:59know he does he did not look okay to me
31:03but I didn't hear what what they went
31:06talking
31:10until Chris says there
31:13was some
31:15news okay there was some news uh do you
31:19know what the news was did Chandler did
31:20you hear Chandler talk about
31:22it what was that news that
31:26uh they he didn't got a
31:29job which job they one in Florida okay
31:33do you know why he didn't get that
31:35job um because he couldn't um he was
31:40supposed to be be there but his brother
31:44got sick so he couldn't go and the the
31:48next time he
31:50fell and couldn't
31:53go and uh I think they couldn't hold the
31:57job anymore because he can't go he
32:00couldn't fly to
32:02Florida okay because of the the fall mhm
32:07okay the concussion his concussion was
32:10was was really bad okay
32:14um what did Chandler ask to do or what
32:17happened next at the farm well we were
32:20very supportive we were
32:24like you know he lost he lost a good job
32:28and I was worried about he putting on
32:31money for the for the apartment
32:34and
32:38um we're trying to Chris and I were
32:42trying to to find out how can we help
32:45him to because he look really really
32:53like down and
32:58um did you all stay together or did some
33:01point Chandler go somewhere else on the
33:02farm um we we were talking and then
33:06after that he he basically basically
33:10excused himself to go
33:13swimming okay and did he go by himself
33:16or did you go with him at that point no
33:18he he went by himself okay what did you
33:21incest you while Chandler was swimming
33:23we were trying to figure it out how to
33:25help them how to to help him he just got
33:30a concussion I was very upset with
33:32Christa
33:34because
33:36um why why she was in to taking him that
33:41day he has a doctor's
33:44appointment you thought his mom should
33:45have been there yeah so uh we were
33:48talking
33:49about um I I as a mom you know I was
33:54very upset with his mom right um how
33:59long at some point did you go to down to
34:01the pool to check on Chandler with with
34:04yeah that yeah we
34:07were I was asking Chris to what we're
34:10going to have for dinner I bring chicken
34:12and she was very upset and um yeah it
34:16was it was a
34:17while how long do you think it was
34:20before you went down to check on on
34:22Chandler at the
34:24pool I don't know probably
34:28half an hour maybe or a little bit
34:30longer
34:32because I don't I don't know I'm sorry
34:35that's okay but did you go did you go
34:37alone or did you and cres go together no
34:39we go we go together oh yeah of course
34:42so while they were sitting at a table
34:45trying to figure out how they can help
34:46Chandler shame poor Chandler you know
34:50didn't get that job at SpaceX in the end
34:52well he never was going to get it right
34:54but while they were sitting there
34:55thinking up ways to help him
34:58he was backing his I think he was
35:01driving his dad's vehicle wasn't he he
35:02was backing the vehicle into the wooded
35:04area on that property when he's
35:07pretending to go for a
35:08swim and
35:10then leaving his Dad's remains out there
35:15and then driving the car back and then
35:17being like ooh can I swim I mean they
35:19will forever be haunted by that you will
35:21hear them describe the swimming today as
35:24well remember he was supposedly a star
35:27swi he was apparently very good
35:30so yeah we'll hear the type of swimming
35:32he did that day and how did how did you
35:35get down to that area
35:38um we use
35:40a a little
35:42car um where we mold the lawn a lawn
35:47mower yeah a lawn mower so I basically
35:50inherit the lmow that Papa used to use
35:54and so we you know like a two granny is
35:58going to you you were both on the lawn
36:00mower yes okay yes um and did you drive
36:05down toward the
36:06pool
36:08um well we yes we we drove to the pool
36:12yes tell me about where you went as you
36:14were
36:15driving what do you mean yeah where did
36:17you go first when you started driving
36:19down to the
36:20pool um well we went to to the pool it's
36:25in a little Hill so we went
36:28and we didn't
36:29see chanler swimming we didn't see
36:32anything so we went we
36:36turn right and you know we we saw the
36:42card and I thought he was
36:43asleeping where was the car in relation
36:47to the pool was it close or farther
36:50away oh would it help if I showed you a
36:53map oh yes a photo sure or a photo yeah
36:55I have a huge photo of the farm oh okay
36:59I'm G to show you I told you it was big
37:02it's number 57 is that the
37:05farm from above from like an
37:12airplane
37:17um yes um that is the shed
37:21mhm
37:23um yeah so the house you cannot see it
37:26because it's is a lot of trees sure but
37:30can I point it yeah so here's what I'll
37:32do does this look to be uh like what the
37:34farm would look would have looked like
37:35back in July except for all of these
37:37police cars that are kind of involved
37:38but otherwise is this what the farm
37:40looked like yes all right I'll move 57
37:42into evidence any objections no
37:43objection it is received it may be
37:45published all right I'm going to move
37:46this a little bit closer to you okay
37:49okay
37:52and you can stand up if you'd like how
37:54about if if you could could you point um
37:57where's the driveway meet the road
37:58where's the entrance to the to the farm
38:01um right over here follow it all the way
38:04down and right there all right I'll hold
38:08on to
38:11this and where's the house can you point
38:14to that oh right you can kind of see the
38:16roof yes that is the house this CH and
38:20where's the pool that we're talking
38:22about okay now if you could um kind of
38:25standing off to the side so these folks
38:27can see you um if you could point to
38:31maybe just take your finger and and
38:33Trace the way that you drove down to the
38:34pool on that
38:36lawnmower um we
38:39drove okay and the pool is here where
38:42did you say you saw a Chandler's car oh
38:46um about right here okay and you said
38:49you you thought he was sleeping yeah
38:51that the the back of the car the one was
38:56open so I thought
38:58okay and did did you drive your your
39:02lawnmower did you you folks drive over
39:04by that car to look in and what did you
39:07see
39:09um I
39:11saw I I saw something that was a little
39:15bit metal like you know when you put a a
39:19car and it's like a little a
39:23ramp yeah like a little ramp okay like a
39:26gray and uh bill you want to move the
39:29mic it's really difficult to hear sure y
39:32um how about you take a seat real quick
39:33and we'll we'll keep asking question
39:34while we're moving let me just reflect
39:36for the record that the if you think of
39:39the upper half of the picture and the
39:41middle of the upper half the witness
39:42indicated that the road uh from the um
39:46exess road to the driveway to the house
39:49is in the upper middle portion of the
39:52half you can see a small amount of
39:54roadway she traced her finger through
39:56the woods demonstrating that the houses
39:59within the wooded area in that upper
40:01quadrant identified the swimming pool as
40:04a round shape and indicated that the
40:08driving uh with herself and Crest on the
40:11lawn mower was from uh the area
40:14approximately where the house was down
40:15to the back of the shed and indicated
40:18that the vehicle of Mr H um halderson
40:23was lower into the lower half of the
40:26picture um um
40:28approximately where you can see some
40:31unidentified objects that don't appear
40:33to be cars is that accurate Cil that
40:36that's fair well why don't why don't you
40:38if you could one more time uh point to
40:40where Mr alderson's car was when you
40:42drove down there that's the part I
40:44couldn't see as
40:46clearly um it was right over here all
40:50right and so we'll just say that is uh
40:54approximately uh 3 in below the barn on
40:58the photograph I mean he was pretty far
41:00from the pool so the pool is right
41:02behind her head here and you know he's
41:06like I'm going for a swim meanwhile
41:09they're like where is Chandler and they
41:11take the lawn mower they go out here and
41:13they see his car all the way down here
41:15he actually backed it into the woods
41:16here and he'd also put uh Tools in like
41:20an old oil
41:21drum you know so they're like what is he
41:24doing over there and after that I think
41:26he was just is wearing board shorts
41:28after that he's like oh now he's going
41:29to go swim sure if only they knew what
41:32he was really up to there okay and in
41:34between the cars and the other items if
41:37you were to split that distance kind of
41:39at a uh at an intersection between a
41:42line south south of South if you view
41:45North as the top of the picture of the
41:47barn intersecting with a line between
41:49those white cars and the other objects
41:52that's F all right you can any problem
41:55with that description Council no all
41:56right thank you and we have to do that
41:58because we're typing out the court
41:59record so when we point to things the
42:01judge will describe what they are
42:03sometimes and the judge does that so
42:05well right describing things for the
42:07record and also for us right just just
42:11recapping wait wait so what we're
42:12looking at now is which is very good um
42:15so you saw the car you said the back was
42:18open and you saw maybe a ramp type thing
42:21did you see Chandler in that car um no
42:25sorry no you're fine
42:29um no no
42:32um oh I'm sorry there we go sorry no
42:37Chandler wasn't in the car no at that
42:40time when you're Chandler you're looking
42:41at the car did you see where Chandler
42:43was right then no did you know where
42:46Chandler was no okay
42:50um what did you and Crest do what she
42:53was
42:55upset and I said well
42:59um I'm going to object at this
43:02point I'm sorry object to possible
43:05hearsay that may come out I'm sorry hear
43:09possible hearsay that may come out what
43:12I'm sorry attorney Brown will rephrase
43:15the question to make sure he's asking uh
43:17what you thought or said sure um and you
43:20know Crest is going to testify next
43:22right oh in this case so the jury is
43:24only going to hear from you now and then
43:25Crest next so anything she said we'll
43:27hear from her but but what did you and
43:29Crest do at that time not what was said
43:31but what did you do we went to the pool
43:34okay um you jumped in the pool yeah okay
43:38um was it just you and Crest in the pool
43:41yeah mhm at some point while you were in
43:44the pool um did you see Chandler or
43:46figure out where Chandler was um no he
43:49was coming to the pool okay you saw him
43:53mhm
43:55um if you could I'm going to have you
43:57stand up um and point to where is the
44:00first where did you see Chandler coming
44:02from the first time you saw him while
44:03you were in the
44:05pool okay all
44:08right
44:11right okay and did you see where he'd
44:13come from before
44:14that okay I'll note the witness just
44:17pointed to the right of the barn
44:19essentially that's
44:22fine thank you that does appear to be
44:24accurate Council this is the Barn
44:27obviously not the house the house is
44:28somewhere in the tree liners they said
44:29here's a road somewhere in here I think
44:32this is the barn this is the pool and
44:35yeah Chanda was back here in the woods
44:37for the defense agrees perfect we have
44:39the uh what you pointed to reflected
44:42accurately in the record thank you okay
44:44what did Chandler
44:46do you saw him coming where did he go or
44:49what did he
44:51do
44:53he he asks is he wants to is he he can
44:57get in the pool with
44:59us and what did what did you
45:03say I was
45:08like I
45:11I I was like no no but I say it myself
45:18no why
45:45because Chris didn't
45:47have clothes on the top she didn't have
45:51a top on okay um did Chandler
45:57what happened next did did Chandler go
45:59away did he get in the pool what
46:00happened he got in the pool
46:03okay so he was getting in that pool no
46:06matter
46:06what and it is just so vile to think of
46:10what he was doing he wanted to rinse
46:12himself
46:13off you know after dealing with these
46:17Dad's remains you know so he really
46:18wanted to get in that pool with them can
46:20you imagine how scary that would be now
46:22for them to think about in hindsight and
46:24they're like no can I can I join you no
46:27he's like I'm getting in I mean wow yeah
46:31zero regard for anyone else or anyone
46:34else's boundaries what did Chandler do
46:37once he got in the
46:39pool he was just uh he was
46:47looking he he was
46:51looking
46:53to to the Horizon okay
46:57and he was was he in the water yes how
47:00was he what was he doing in the water
47:02physically was he moving around was he
47:04swimming he was like going under the
47:06water and you know put it on water on
47:09his body and you know so that is not how
47:14swimmers usually would swim people can
47:15get in and you know just splash a bit of
47:18water but Chanda was a
47:19swimmer for most of his life that's not
47:23normal I'm basing that obviously on my
47:24swimming experience as well but I've
47:26never seen a swi jump into a pool and be
47:28like ooh let me just wash my shoulders
47:29and my hands a little bit okay rinsing
47:32myself off we know now why he was doing
47:34it but that was a big red flag his
47:36behavior was oh man and yeah Becky B
47:39says bathing himself yes rinsing
47:43evidence bathing
47:46himself you're making those motions on
47:48your arm and this is one of those weird
47:50things because we have to type down
47:51everything that's happening how would
47:52you describe what he was doing when you
47:54when you put your hands on your arms um
47:56like he was you know put it on water you
48:00know when you put water and
48:03okay so staring off kind of through that
48:06field toward the Horizon and and
48:08um yes because
48:12creis
48:13czes behind me and I put my body to kind
48:18of Shield
48:19her and but Chandler was looking to the
48:25Horizon okay and then he turned around
48:27and then he was getting in the more on
48:30the water and you know he was
48:33like on the water like okay was he
48:37saying
48:39anything
48:40um not
48:43much the water was nice and warm
48:47but did you did you or Crest ask
48:51Chandler where he had been
48:57objection to the form of the
49:01question sustained you can repe did
49:03Chandler tell you I wonder if they got a
49:06new pool like after that you know I just
49:09those memories must be so
49:11terrible just thinking about that and as
49:15DOL described it what a paradise what a
49:17beautiful farm with all these like
49:19berries and it was like Lush and green
49:21obviously in summer then and they had
49:22this pool and the barn and it really
49:24looks like a beautiful property and he
49:26just
49:27tainted that a little bit I hope not I
49:29hope they are able to overcome that
49:32somehow
49:33right where he had
49:36been no I thought he was he went for a
49:39walk CU he wasn't in the car he was
49:41walking that is what I thought that is
49:43what I thought that's what I say to
49:46Chris now I'm going to ask you a
49:48question if you don't remember that's
49:49okay but when Chandler was walking
49:51toward the pool and right before he got
49:53in did he still have all his clothes on
49:55or did he have some of his clothes off
50:02he had his short
50:04son and he didn't he didn't have his I
50:08think his shirt was off okay I I yeah I
50:12think so okay so tell me if I'm I'm
50:15remembering this correctly so he you see
50:17him walking coming from next to the barn
50:20and as you see him he's wearing his
50:22shorts but not his shirt he gets in the
50:25pool he stares off kind of toward the
50:27Horizon and he is splashing water onto
50:31himself yes yes okay um did he tell you
50:36anything at all about what he was going
50:38to do next or what his plans were that
50:40day yes he was um he was going to my
50:44place because Katherine was making his
50:48favorite and we asked what was his
50:51favorite and he says McDonald's he said
50:55he's going to go get McDonald's
50:56McDonald's and I say Katherine is a lazy
50:59she should not make
51:01McDonald's you thought your daughter
51:03would cook something better like yeah I
51:06mean then always cook good food in the
51:08house
51:10sure um how long were you in the pool
51:13with Chandler you and Crest and Chandler
51:15how long did that last I don't know
51:19probably
51:21um I don't remember how long but I mean
51:25we were still you know I
51:29think maybe 15 minutes maybe do you know
51:35how it ended did everyone get out at the
51:37same time or did no how did it end with
51:39Chandler at being there uh Chandler
51:41after Chandler you know went and swim
51:45for a little bit he but he didn't
51:49swim because he didn't even wet his
51:52hair
51:54um after he w and just to splatch
51:57himself then he get out of the pool
52:01and
52:03um and then I feel more comfortable and
52:10so CH Chandler left at that point um
52:17yes so he used them and left he went it
52:20to do what he was going to do and left
52:23okay bye just wow well he has to go back
52:26to pick up his car sure and did you see
52:31him after that or did you leave at that
52:33point after he got his car um no he just
52:36went got his card and then drove off and
52:39he we just waited wave him we was very
52:42happy that he
52:43was he came but which was a strange that
52:47it's strange because Katherine wasn't
52:49with him but
52:53okay at any point the day before the 4th
52:57of July when you were out there or this
52:59day the July 5th Monday so Sunday or
53:01Monday when you see Chandler does he
53:03tell you that his parents are anywhere
53:07at a cabin or anything like that um yes
53:11he he says they were they were going up
53:15north they all they were went up
53:17north um but that was that was Sunday
53:22okay they already left and I already
53:25knew because
53:28was um yeah I already
53:33know did Chandler
53:35ever Mellow Yellow says I'm a swimmer
53:38swimmers always wet their hair if
53:39they're going to swim exactly you would
53:40want to dive under you would want to
53:42swim I mean he's so used to swimming you
53:43don't stand there washing yourself off
53:46like that I don't think so that's not
53:48normal swimmer Behavior okay so o that
53:52just it sounds so creepy express any
53:54concern to you about where his parents
53:56were that he was worried about them at
54:04all he look he looked worried yeah he
54:09looked
54:11worri but did he say anything about that
54:13or just looked worried
54:17um no he didn't he didn't say too much
54:20about
54:22it but on Tuesday that was different
54:26right
54:29um and then and we're going to go there
54:31in one second but one more question
54:32about the July 4th and July 5th when you
54:35see Chandler out at the farm would you
54:37describe the way he was acting his
54:39behavior objection
54:42leading we'll hear the whole question
54:44would you describe his Rea his his
54:47behavior or the way he was acting was
54:49that normal for Chandler was it
54:51different than usual it was a little bit
54:54different okay what do you mean on the
54:55Sunday
54:57yeah let's talk about Sunday or even
54:58Monday the next day what do you mean by
55:00different
55:03um Sunday when he was he was kind of
55:08okay and uh with with the kids because
55:12the kids sit down in that in the in the
55:15same table and they were
55:18interacting but for some reason Chandler
55:21was you know a little bit
55:24more um
55:27quiet in a
55:30way uh but I yeah he was and he looked
55:36kind of also a
55:38sleepy on the 4th of July uh yeah what
55:42about the next day TI um he would have
55:44been tired off to everything he was up
55:46to right that he got up to that weekend
55:48um the next day
55:52um I'm sorry I just I just thought the
55:56Chandler was so depressed that he
56:00probably took his mom's pills because
56:02she had cancer
56:04so
56:08oh what may we approach okay hold on one
56:12second we're going to talk
56:13again the poor lady when it's like
56:15objection she like what did I do don't
56:17worry everything's okay little bit of
56:20sidebar um I'm going to ask the question
56:22a different way sometimes when we do
56:24that I'll I'll rephrase the question
56:25meaning I'll ask a different way um
56:28you've talked to police a lot in this
56:30case right and told them what happened
56:32right um fair to say that you described
56:35that that day the 5th when Chandler was
56:37out there that he was acting kind of um
56:40Dopey and and just way different than
56:43usual maybe right okay um now after this
56:47day is is over and Chandler leaves
56:50that's the fifth so you saw him on July
56:524th Fourth of July everyone's out July
56:545th he's out using the pool
56:56um you see him a couple days later right
56:59mhm tell me about that the next day
57:03yeah well it was Tuesday so we have beat
57:06ups sure is that your normal
57:08thing yeah you have some Buffalo Wild
57:11Wings that day yeah um that's a family
57:14thing um yes Chandler Chandler James and
57:18Katherine and I will like bit up so we
57:21always buy what my son likes what
57:25Katherine likes what Chandler likes and
57:27what I like and it's just is just the
57:30four of us and that was on Tuesday yes
57:33because it's by one get one free isn't
57:34it um I think so yeah I think so too um
57:40J and you've mentioned James a couple
57:41times James is your son yes okay that's
57:44correct um and this was at your house
57:47yes okay um did Chandler say anything
57:50and again I'm only looking for things
57:52Chandler said to you not James or
57:54Catherine they're you know that's a
57:56different thing um but did Chandler say
57:58anything to you um when you guys were
58:01doing the Buffalo Wild Wings night about
58:03his parents or where they were he was
58:05just worried because his parents wasn't
58:07he wasn't here from his parents yet okay
58:11did he did you tell you anything more
58:13about
58:15that no okay um how was he acting on
58:19this day quick pause Carrie that's a
58:22good reminder yes please be kind dosia
58:24has been through so very much and she's
58:25so so nervous and English isn't her
58:27first language she's doing incredibly
58:29we're in International Space here and we
58:31don't snark at Witnesses in Trials if
58:34you want to get snorky do it a
58:37chender okay so let's carry
58:39on
58:42Tire sad in a way maybe okay um at some
58:48at some point did you find out that Bart
58:51and Christ halderson were missing like
58:52that people were looking for them and
58:54they didn't know where they were
58:57well
58:58[Music]
58:59um two times it was brought up that that
59:05they were missing and on Tuesday I
59:08questioned
59:10myself how they
59:13missing
59:15and I I question
59:18saying I will say that I didn't hear
59:20from my parents or
59:24I my parents has hasn't called me or I
59:29would not say missing unless I know they
59:33were missing okay um and I know other
59:38people may have but did you personally
59:40talk to Chandler about filing a police
59:42report or what to do about his parents
59:44missing like what actions he should take
59:46no okay um did you know Barton Christal
59:49halderson very well
59:51yourself no I just know what Chandler
59:55told me okay okay yeah in Ka a course
59:58sure yeah okay um I'm going to take a
1:00:01break now for just one second so if you
1:00:03want to get a drink of water um but
1:00:05it'll just be about 30 seconds
1:00:08okay can I can
1:00:10I sure Council the witness would like to
1:00:14use the restroom so I'm going to excuse
1:00:16her to go do that as you consult and
1:00:18then she'll come right back all right uh
1:00:21attorney Vera did the defense wish to
1:00:23engage in cross-examination at this time
1:00:26yes thank
1:00:27you would you prefer if I call you dul
1:00:30or um Miss
1:00:33bander D okay um I promise I'm not as
1:00:37scary as I make it seem right now
1:00:39sometimes I just have to tell Bill not
1:00:40to do things and that's what we're doing
1:00:42okay um so I just have a couple
1:00:44questions for
1:00:46you and I know you may not like this
1:00:50topic but I just want to clear up some
1:00:52points when you were talking about Crest
1:00:55and the farm and in the pool she was
1:00:58topless correct yes
1:01:02and it it makes you uncomfortable
1:01:05correct talking about it very um so when
1:01:10we saw you that was just you being
1:01:13uncomfortable about Crest being topless
1:01:15and Chandler having to see that
1:01:20correct both both the fact that she was
1:01:23she was topless and the fact that
1:01:25Chandler had to see no that the fact
1:01:29that she was stopless and the Chandler
1:01:32came in the pool gotcha okay but as far
1:01:36as Chandler making you feel
1:01:39uncomfortable that's not something that
1:01:41you were feeling personally it was just
1:01:43the situation with Crest being
1:01:48topless and let let me ask it this way
1:01:51that day yeah how's that for a leading
1:01:53question it wasn't Chandler that made
1:01:55you feel uncomfortable at all right it
1:01:57was your girlfriend or fiance he was
1:01:59topless right that's what made you
1:02:01uncomfortable huh shame that's a leading
1:02:04question mhm you could just say why were
1:02:07you feeling uncomfortable the Chandler
1:02:10make you uncomfortable obviously it's a
1:02:11defense attorney she's not going to ask
1:02:13that yes little bit yes indeed in the
1:02:16pool on the fifth it was just a weird
1:02:19situation is that
1:02:21fair um it was very weird the whole
1:02:25thing the whole thing yeah Chandler was
1:02:28acting Dopey I think that's what the DA
1:02:33used yes but
1:02:36also I know Chandler that he is very
1:02:39polite so I was like kind of surprised
1:02:43how there he went in the
1:02:45pool when Chris was stopless and he make
1:02:50me uncomfortable for that and that makes
1:02:52total sense I would I would react that
1:02:54way too m mhm walked right into that one
1:02:57defense
1:02:58attorney no it was Chandler he's usually
1:03:01very polite and he made me uncomfortable
1:03:03cuz he was just like getting in the pool
1:03:05where clearly their faces were like
1:03:08no don't do that read the room like you
1:03:11always do Chazzy no he didn't he's just
1:03:13like I'm going in no matter what um now
1:03:16as far as your interactions with
1:03:19Chandler go um you mentioned that you
1:03:23took him out to dinner uh it was and
1:03:26dinner it was more like lunch I I think
1:03:29I say it was Midday okay yeah okay so
1:03:32you took him out for lunch and it was
1:03:34just you and him right yes yeah um was
1:03:36that the first time you had interactions
1:03:39with Chandler where it was just you and
1:03:41him yes um and most of the times he's
1:03:45with with cat correct
1:03:49yes um and you also mentioned something
1:03:52about um whenever it's him and cat and
1:03:56you you guys cook is that
1:03:59correct D cook yeah Chandler is yes does
1:04:04Chandler help out um Chandler likes to
1:04:07make good salmon so yeah Catherine and
1:04:10Chandler they then cook leave a mess but
1:04:15yeah as they do yeah so they cook you
1:04:17take advantage but then you have to
1:04:18clean that fair um well I have to clean
1:04:22yeah is the food worth it at least I is
1:04:26the food worth the
1:04:28cleaning sorry is the food worth the
1:04:30cleaning that you have to do oh yes
1:04:33Chandler is a good cook and I have the
1:04:36same problem you do or sometimes I need
1:04:37to speak into the mic so that's why I'm
1:04:39sitting down right now okay um so in
1:04:43general your interactions with Chandler
1:04:46and Cat they're good
1:04:50yes in some ways yes um and and Chandler
1:04:54is a quiet person correct yes um and
1:04:59we'll see your daughter later but she
1:05:01brings out some of Chandler's funniness
1:05:05if you
1:05:06will um yes he he can be funny he can be
1:05:11funny but normally he's just quiet he's
1:05:13he's a quiet guy
1:05:17um I think is when when they were
1:05:20together I mean that he was he was kind
1:05:22of funny yeah he was yeah
1:05:29yeah and a way you know yeah I mean yes
1:05:33we're we're all funny in a way I get
1:05:34that yeah yeah um you know I don't have
1:05:37any other questions for you thank you so
1:05:39much any redirect it sounds like he
1:05:41wasn't very funny huh he was funny in a
1:05:45way may this witness be excused and
1:05:47released excused okay you're excused
1:05:51from testifying any further today or at
1:05:53least this morning but the state is
1:05:56maintaining you under subpoena which
1:05:57means you can't discuss your testimony
1:05:59with anyone else and they'll let you
1:06:01know when you're released from the
1:06:03subpoena itself all right thank you and
1:06:06you can take the water with you thank
1:06:08you very
1:06:09much yeah I don't have no water oh if
1:06:11it's all gone that's fine
1:06:13too state of state of Wisconsin calls
1:06:16Crescent
1:06:20lasai good morning morning so now we're
1:06:23going to hear from do's partner Crescent
1:06:26lasai such a beautiful name Crescent
1:06:28lasai isn't that such a cool name St
1:06:31like we're all funny in a
1:06:33way shame that defy didn't know what to
1:06:36say back yeah we're all funny in a way I
1:06:37get that no more questions for you like
1:06:40oh wow sorry I also didn't update the
1:06:41banner I realized now I didn't say
1:06:43cross- examination I was so busy
1:06:45watching it's just like o this is
1:06:46awkward okay if you believe you can do
1:06:49so safely and responsibly testifying
1:06:51without a mask would be our preference
1:06:53would that be something you could uh
1:06:55feel that you could do today uh no all
1:06:57right if you prefer to maintain your
1:07:00mask I understand pull the microphone
1:07:02much closer because it does muffle our
1:07:04sound naturally okay and if I have
1:07:07trouble hearing you and I'm really close
1:07:09to you I'll ask you to do even closer
1:07:11just so everybody who's a little further
1:07:12away can hear and as you can hear the
1:07:14blowers are on this morning so it
1:07:17muffles sound a little bit thank you
1:07:19please proceed attorney Raymond thank
1:07:21you could you please State your full
1:07:23name both first and last for the record
1:07:25and and then spell both your first and
1:07:27last name Crescent lasai c r e s e n t l
1:07:33apostrophe s
1:07:36Ai and Miss lasai um do you know
1:07:39somebody by the name of Dolce Mander yes
1:07:42I do how do you know her uh she's my
1:07:45girlfriend okay and uh does she refer to
1:07:48you often as crust yes everyone mostly
1:07:51does and you can as
1:07:53well and do you know somebody by the
1:07:55name of Catherine Mander yes I do how do
1:07:59you know her uh I know her through doy
1:08:02she's her daughter okay and through
1:08:05Catherine or cat did you become
1:08:08acquainted with somebody by the name of
1:08:09Chandler halderson yes and I'd ask the
1:08:13judge will probably ask everyone to
1:08:14remove their masks besides you and the
1:08:17jury um but could you see Mr holders
1:08:19Chandler in the courtroom today yes I do
1:08:22as you look at the faces I'll ask
1:08:23everyone not in the jury box to lower
1:08:25their mask and then replace their mask
1:08:28please go ahead and answer the question
1:08:30if you could yes could you just let us
1:08:32know where he's seated and perhaps the
1:08:34color of his shirt well he's sitting
1:08:36over across the room over there he's got
1:08:39a blue tie on okay i' ask the record to
1:08:42reflect that the witness has identified
1:08:43the defendant it shall so there was cr's
1:08:48um Crescent besze property that they
1:08:50were referring to and they showed us on
1:08:51the map and it was in Cottage Grove or
1:08:54it is in cottage Grove I don't know if
1:08:55she's still there or not it's in Cottage
1:08:57Grove Wisconsin and that's where
1:08:59Chandler went on the 4th of July uh
1:09:02during the day and then remember in the
1:09:03evening he went to Christ's co-workers
1:09:05house Dan's house and then on the fifth
1:09:07he went back by himself which kind of
1:09:09caught you know Chris of guard of like
1:09:11why is he here again by himself it's one
1:09:14of those can I use your pool to help
1:09:16with my injury sure and then he just
1:09:18takes full advantage of that like oh
1:09:20damn okay you here you are Again by
1:09:22yourself selling your legs work and you
1:09:24could drive buddy
1:09:26but can you imagine how pissed off she
1:09:28must be that he used her property like
1:09:31that stashed tools that he used to
1:09:34dismember his parents' remains with
1:09:37stashed his Dad's remains in the woods
1:09:41right there close to the barn right in
1:09:43the wood wooded area there on her
1:09:45property and just you know took
1:09:48advantage of their kindness they sitting
1:09:50there figuring out how could we help
1:09:51this guy I mean and then got in the pool
1:09:54as well she she must really be quite
1:09:57pissed off right okay so it's also
1:10:01rumored so I don't know I have no
1:10:03confirmation on this but it's rumored
1:10:05that this relationship between DOL and
1:10:08Chris they were engaged that they
1:10:10separated that they did it didn't last
1:10:11because of this Devastation the Chandler
1:10:13caused and I also read yesterday uh
1:10:16which again it's rumored it's
1:10:17speculative it's like from Reddit and
1:10:19Facebook and things like that so just
1:10:20take it with a grain of salt but I read
1:10:23that Mitch ch's brother had actually
1:10:25moved out of state he had to start all
1:10:27over I think he's in Illinois or
1:10:29something and he got married and within
1:10:32a month or so after this trial he got
1:10:35divorced I mean Chandler just he ruined
1:10:37so many lives he took his parents' lives
1:10:40and he ruined and so many lives and
1:10:42traumatized so many people it's really
1:10:45sad
1:10:48okay what sort of relationship did you
1:10:51have with
1:10:53Chandler in June
1:10:55or so of
1:10:582021 this year yes well well last year
1:11:02technically because it's January but yes
1:11:04true yeah um well you know I didn't
1:11:06spend a whole lot of time with
1:11:08Chandler you know to know him through
1:11:10Catherine mostly most of the times I saw
1:11:13them were either get togethers or or
1:11:15through her okay and roughly where do
1:11:20you live uh in Cottage Grove in the town
1:11:23in a rural part of Cottage Grove
1:11:25yes
1:11:27okay and just while I approach you I'm
1:11:30going to put my mask on thank you
1:11:34nobody's ever complained I was
1:11:38quiet I'm going to show you what's been
1:11:40marked and
1:11:44received as exhibit
1:11:4757 is this an overhead picture of your
1:11:50property in Cottage
1:11:53Grove yes it is okay okay um so your
1:11:58house you can barely see the roof right
1:12:00there is that correct that's correct
1:12:01it's in the wooded area okay and that's
1:12:03like the top half almost right in the
1:12:06middle of exhibit 57 and this is a barn
1:12:09or a shed yeah it's an old tobacco shed
1:12:12okay and right here this is a pool yes
1:12:16okay and all of this wooded area is that
1:12:19your property yes and there's more
1:12:22property over here that's not shown true
1:12:25what is on that property you mean the
1:12:28part that's unseen it's um it's all
1:12:31grassy area it's in a a CRP program
1:12:34atide program so it's just for wildlife
1:12:37so it's like wild
1:12:39flowers some people might describe it as
1:12:41like a Brier like little bushes yeah
1:12:44there can be there's actually wild
1:12:45raspberries and things that can grow in
1:12:46there right
1:12:55before July 4th weekend how many times
1:12:58approximately had Chandler been out to
1:13:00your
1:13:02property I couldn't say exactly I could
1:13:04give you an estimate sure an estimate is
1:13:06just fine like 10 or 12 times maybe okay
1:13:10um and did he ever come out there prior
1:13:12to the July 4th weekend by himself or
1:13:15was he always with somebody else he
1:13:17always was with someone else he'd never
1:13:18come out there alone before that I'm
1:13:20aware of okay and generally I assume
1:13:23that was his girlfriend cat yeah she was
1:13:26always with him
1:13:32okay
1:13:34and prior to July 4th weekend what
1:13:38understanding did you have as far as
1:13:40what Chandler did for a
1:13:43living well what I understood is he'
1:13:45gotten a job at American family as he
1:13:48was working there as far as I
1:13:53knew and did do you have any
1:13:56understanding is if he was attending
1:13:57school or not um I wasn't I knew he had
1:14:00been in school but I I didn't know if he
1:14:02was going to school recently but I knew
1:14:05he was in school he was getting ready to
1:14:08graduate
1:14:10okay um do you see Chand Chandler
1:14:13halderson over the July 4th weekend yes
1:14:17and what day did you see them on Sunday
1:14:22so July 4th itself yes
1:14:26um how did Mr halderson behave on that
1:14:30day well he kind of seemed a little lot
1:14:34not like hisself that can you describe
1:14:37that what do you mean by
1:14:39that um he just seemed kind of off
1:14:46like kind of weird actually
1:14:49okay um I mean I remember asking him how
1:14:53he felt you know cuz I just he just kind
1:14:55of seemed okay you asked him how he felt
1:14:58what it what did you remember how he
1:15:00responded yeah he just said oh you know
1:15:03I'm I'm I'm doing okay or I'm doing the
1:15:06best that I can and cuz he um had an
1:15:10accident he's fell down the stairs or
1:15:11something so I thought maybe it was
1:15:13because of the accident that he was
1:15:14acting off sure was he displaying any
1:15:17physical symptoms on July 4th not that I
1:15:20not that I saw no okay um was he wearing
1:15:24a neck bracelet all on July 4th when you
1:15:26saw him
1:15:28no um did he act in any way that he
1:15:31seemed like disabled um did he have any
1:15:35trouble walking or anything like that no
1:15:38I didn't notice that
1:15:41okay um did you have any one-on-one
1:15:44conversations with Chandler on July 4th
1:15:47yes tell me about
1:15:50that well shortly after um he was done
1:15:54eating kids were sitting at the table in
1:15:56my family room and they had gotten up
1:16:00and I was kind of walking towards the
1:16:02kitchen and he approached me and asked
1:16:03me if he could have my phone number my
1:16:06personal phone number um CU he wanted to
1:16:09know if he could come and use the
1:16:10pool okay did you give them your number
1:16:13yeah I gave them my cell number and I
1:16:15also gave them my my landline okay cuz I
1:16:18don't always answer my cell phone and I
1:16:19don't have voicemail on my cell phone
1:16:22okay did you guys um have any further
1:16:24disc discussion on that day I I don't
1:16:27recall
1:16:30okay um so obviously prior to July 4th
1:16:35he didn't have your number to your
1:16:36knowledge not to my knowledge I didn't
1:16:38give it to him okay and in all fairness
1:16:41when you hung out with Chandler prior to
1:16:44July 4th it was always with other people
1:16:47yes namely um Dolce and her family
1:16:50correct
1:16:52okay as of July 4th did you have any
1:16:56knowledge about the whereabouts of
1:16:58Chandler's parents no I I didn't even
1:17:00know their names okay did you know
1:17:03whether or not did had you heard any
1:17:05stories or anything about them being
1:17:07missing at this point no
1:17:10okay
1:17:12um let's fast forward to the next day
1:17:15Monday July 5th did you have any
1:17:17interactions with Chandler on Monday
1:17:21July 5th
1:17:22yes um what what's the first interaction
1:17:26you had with Chandler on that day oh the
1:17:29first interaction was I opened up my
1:17:33window I you know I live in a twostory
1:17:35and I saw a car in my driveway came in
1:17:39from outside to get a drink of water and
1:17:41I saw a car and it didn't recognize the
1:17:43car and someone was standing in my
1:17:45driveway and it was it was
1:17:47Chandler so I opened the window cuz he
1:17:49was kind of standing holding his phone
1:17:51and and looking around and so I opened
1:17:54the window window and I said are asked
1:17:56him if he was
1:17:57okay and he said yeah and I said oh I
1:18:00said are you here to use the pool and he
1:18:02said yeah would that be all right and I
1:18:04said yeah sure were you expecting
1:18:06Chandler that day no
1:18:10okay all right so do you remember about
1:18:14what time he showed up to use your pool
1:18:16just approximate if you remember it was
1:18:18it was in the afternoon I just remember
1:18:20coming in it was really hot that day I
1:18:21was working on a project and so I came
1:18:23in to get a drink of water so it was
1:18:25probably midaf afternoon-ish I would say
1:18:29okay and what was Chandler like when
1:18:32when you talk to him right there um
1:18:34about using the pool was there anything
1:18:37noteworthy you mean when he was in the
1:18:39driveway yeah well he just looked a
1:18:42little kind of baced out a little bit
1:18:44you know sure that's why I was kind you
1:18:46know because he kept looking looking
1:18:48around and holding his phone and you
1:18:52know yeah checking that signal checking
1:18:54those security
1:18:56cameras we saw some of the Ring cam
1:18:59videos was it yesterday yesterday day
1:19:01two so if you didn't see that I've time
1:19:03stamped all of those for you as well my
1:19:04word it's just
1:19:06like rings the doorbell hello like oh
1:19:10that's not creepy the way just stands
1:19:11there hi so you got in your surveillance
1:19:15cameras how do they work what can they
1:19:16see can they see my house
1:19:18H like I said I was just a little
1:19:21startled because I'm like who's who's
1:19:22here you know sure your property is
1:19:25pretty remote yeah it is and your
1:19:28property just to clear things up is in
1:19:30Dame County Wisconsin correct
1:19:33okay um so what happened after you told
1:19:36Chandler he could use the
1:19:38pool um well he drove
1:19:42up you know cuz if you come I live on a
1:19:45hill and when you come to the driveway
1:19:47it's kind of in the middle of the hill
1:19:49and so you have to drive further up the
1:19:50hill to where the pool is so he he drove
1:19:54up there
1:19:57okay um did you see at this time when he
1:20:00was going to use the pool did you see at
1:20:04this time where he parked no no I did
1:20:08not see where he had parked at that time
1:20:09okay all right so he do you guys have
1:20:12any further discussion before he goes to
1:20:16use the
1:20:17pool um he he did come down to where I
1:20:22was working on my project which was
1:20:23putting on a ramp on my deck I was
1:20:26putting a ramp so that my father and my
1:20:28brother could get up and down the the
1:20:30deck in their on the scooter in the
1:20:33wheelchairs okay and so when I was
1:20:36working on that he'd come down was he
1:20:39come there's a hill that comes leads
1:20:42down to my house and need'd come walking
1:20:44down that hill and then we had a
1:20:48conversation what did you guys talk
1:20:51about well um he was telling me about
1:20:57his accident he said he was at a
1:20:59doctor's appointment and so he was
1:21:02talking to me about what the doctor had
1:21:04said and what was going on did he tell
1:21:06you when that appointment had
1:21:07been I don't remember okay um what did
1:21:12he say
1:21:14occurred well he told me that he had
1:21:16like damaged and I asked him where and
1:21:20he said in this area of his head in the
1:21:23back of his head and all right so you
1:21:25you put your hand right above the top of
1:21:28your neck back here yeah okay the back
1:21:30of his head and he did he elaborate on
1:21:33what that damage was well he said it
1:21:36wasn't good that they might have to do
1:21:38some surgery or something and that he
1:21:40said he was having trouble like with
1:21:43numbers and he said he got lost he had
1:21:45to use a GPS he's just like said his
1:21:49mind was kind of messed up and wasn't
1:21:51thinking so
1:21:52well okay
1:21:56did you guys discuss anything besides
1:21:58just his physical health uh yeah I I
1:22:02asked him you know how basically how he
1:22:04was you know overall doing and about his
1:22:07job cuz he said he had was getting a new
1:22:10job in Florida and I asked him about
1:22:12that and like was what did he say well
1:22:15he said that he probably wasn't going to
1:22:17get the job that some manager told him
1:22:19that it wasn't going to work out because
1:22:21of his injury that he wasn't able to
1:22:23work
1:22:25and then I'd asked him about maybe he
1:22:26could go back to American family and he
1:22:28said no he didn't he said that wouldn't
1:22:32happen he wouldn't be able to do that so
1:22:33he seemed concerned about you know maybe
1:22:37not having a job and what was he going
1:22:38to kind of do and I asked him you know
1:22:42would he talk to his parents you know
1:22:43maybe could he talk to them or you know
1:22:46things like that just to try to reassure
1:22:47him because he just seemed upset about
1:22:49this news that he had gotten from the
1:22:51doctor sure and what did he respond to
1:22:55that to what to to I'm sorry to talk to
1:22:58the idea of talking to his parents about
1:23:00his job and health and he said no
1:23:02they're they're still up north and and I
1:23:05just says well you know maybe it would
1:23:07help you to talk to him and his response
1:23:09is he says no they'll just be mad and
1:23:12which seemed odd to me why his parents
1:23:14would be upset with him that he was hurt
1:23:16and couldn't work you know it just
1:23:19seemed odd to me okay um how long do you
1:23:24think this conversation took took
1:23:27place I don't know maybe 20 minutes or
1:23:30so I'm not sure all right um what
1:23:33happened after the
1:23:35conversation well I think I'm trying to
1:23:37remember dolage showed up um she'd come
1:23:40I wasn't expecting her but she had come
1:23:42to the house and she came through the
1:23:45house we were sitting on the deck and
1:23:46she came and was like what's going on
1:23:48and I said oh well I'm just chatting
1:23:51with Chandler here and and I guess he
1:23:54doesn't have such good news and then she
1:23:56came out and sat down and asked what was
1:23:59going on and then we started to kind of
1:24:01go back over what him and I had talked
1:24:04about to explain to her what was
1:24:06happening sure and the jury's already
1:24:08had the opportunity to hear from Dolce
1:24:10so I I don't need you to repeat anything
1:24:12that she said okay but what kind of
1:24:14happened next in the events of well then
1:24:16he went to go use the pool cuz before
1:24:19he'd come down and I'd asked him you
1:24:21know how was the pool he didn't answer
1:24:23and and so he went said he was going to
1:24:27go back to use the pool and then dosy
1:24:30and I continued to talk because we just
1:24:32felt something was a little odd you know
1:24:35so we were concerned and her and I had a
1:24:37conversation about him of what was going
1:24:39on okay and then what happened after
1:24:41that well I kind of got irritated it was
1:24:44so hot and I wanted to go swimming and I
1:24:46was waiting for him to be done using the
1:24:48pool so I could go jump in the pool and
1:24:52so I was getting imp
1:24:55waiting you know wondering what was
1:24:57taking him so long so I said look I I'm
1:25:00I'm going to go get in the pool I'm I'm
1:25:02I'm done you know I'm hot and I'm tired
1:25:05and I I want to go cool off and she said
1:25:07okay so she went to go get her suit and
1:25:10then her and I I have this little riding
1:25:13lawnmower and so we got on the riding
1:25:15lawnmower to go up to tell them hey
1:25:17we're going to go swimming now and when
1:25:20we got up there he wasn't in the pool
1:25:23and there the cover was still on the
1:25:24pool and okay so hold on the the pool
1:25:27has a cover yeah I have like a like a
1:25:29solar it heats up it helps get the water
1:25:32warm so it just lays flat on the top
1:25:35sure so it's got like little bubble and
1:25:37obviously you have to remove said cover
1:25:39to get into the pool yeah there's times
1:25:41I got lazy where I could fold it over
1:25:42just to get in but I usually like to
1:25:44take it off so I could have the whole
1:25:45was it folded over so somebody could get
1:25:47in at all no all right so the covers on
1:25:52the pool is Chandler and site when
1:25:54you're over by the pool no okay and just
1:25:59is exhibit 57 here's the pool the round
1:26:02blue this is an aerial photo so it
1:26:05almost just looks like a DOT right
1:26:07that's the pool area okay so what do you
1:26:09do next well when we drove up and I
1:26:12could you could kind of see no one was
1:26:14in the pool and I didn't see I was
1:26:17looking for him and then I when I look
1:26:19to my right when we came up the hill I
1:26:22had the doors open in the shed
1:26:25and I could see through the
1:26:27shed that his car was parked on the
1:26:29other side of the shed all right can you
1:26:31can you approach exhibit 57 here and
1:26:34kind of point to where you saw
1:26:35Chandler's
1:26:38vehicle we came up there's a hill here
1:26:41and we came up and you could see through
1:26:43the doors car was parked right about
1:26:46here okay thank you
1:26:48so he was parked kind of near this is
1:26:51some wood and an oil drum yeah there's a
1:26:55pile of Timber logs and then it's like
1:26:58my scrap junk pile for metal and things
1:27:00fair and it's kind of near the wooded
1:27:03line here okay all right
1:27:07so I'm not the best estimator judge I
1:27:10would say 4 in south of the barn maybe 1
1:27:14inch above the oil tank on exhibit 57 is
1:27:18the area that the witness pointed that
1:27:19seems to be a fair description yes okay
1:27:21I'm going to have you sit down just so
1:27:22we can hear you nice and loud on that
1:27:25microphone
1:27:26okay um so what do you do you see his oh
1:27:29well hold on one second can do remember
1:27:32what kind of vehicle he was driving that
1:27:33day it was like a little station wagon
1:27:36like a hatchback I okay it might have
1:27:38been a Subaru I'm not sure okay um do
1:27:41you know was the hatch open closed
1:27:43something else the back hatch the back
1:27:46was open okay um all right so that's
1:27:49where you observe the car the back hatch
1:27:52or if you're not a car person like me
1:27:54you say the trunk was open what do you
1:27:57do well yeah cuz uh we go and he's not
1:27:59in the pool and we see the car and then
1:28:02I'm like what the heck is going what is
1:28:03he doing and and I said well I'm going
1:28:06to go over and and doy was like we were
1:28:09like what's he doing you know what is
1:28:11going on Sir so we drove over to see if
1:28:15he was in the back of the car was he
1:28:17sleeping what was he what was he doing
1:28:18was he smoking weed or something we
1:28:20didn't know so uh we drove over there
1:28:24there and with the mower and approached
1:28:26and I drove to the back of the car cuz
1:28:29the back end was backed towards me okay
1:28:33so the back end was facing closer to the
1:28:35barn or the oil drum to the to the to
1:28:37the towards me the front end was facing
1:28:40the shed oh towards you right now yes
1:28:43towards okay so towards the woods
1:28:45towards the Woodline facing way trunk
1:28:48hatches up so I drove we drove in the
1:28:51mower and drove to the back of the car
1:28:53cuz I thought maybe he was in the back
1:28:54of the car taking a nap or I don't know
1:28:58and we look in there and there wasn't
1:28:59anything in the car that we could see
1:29:03okay and at this point you see the car
1:29:05it's empty or it's there's no Chandler
1:29:08in it uh do you see Chandler anywhere on
1:29:10your property no cuz then we stopped and
1:29:12we're like what the heck we're looking
1:29:13around where what's he doing where is he
1:29:16and you know doy was kind of upset at
1:29:18that moment cuz she's thinking maybe
1:29:20he's doing drugs or something she was
1:29:22really upset thinking he's doing drugs
1:29:24or something what the hell is he doing
1:29:26so I said I don't know but I'm done I'm
1:29:28going to get in the pool I just was hot
1:29:30and irritated and just didn't want to
1:29:31deal with it and so I said I'm going to
1:29:33the pool so we left and drove and parked
1:29:36the mower by the pool okay so you took
1:29:38your mower drove back over by the pool
1:29:41and parked and then proceeded and got in
1:29:43the pool
1:29:45okay oh I paus it just the wrong moment
1:29:47that pool is just that little dot behind
1:29:49your Beach BMP says where is the pool
1:29:51it's one of those above the ground pools
1:29:53you know the those round above the
1:29:54ground pools with a little cover on it
1:29:56so it's not like you're looking for a
1:29:57giant pool when you see it it's just a
1:29:59little round pool so you're in the did
1:30:02the pool I'm like did you see it okay
1:30:04wait wait wait we go back to just there
1:30:08okay wait I'll show you we left and
1:30:09drove and park the mower by the pool
1:30:11okay so you took this is the pool right
1:30:14here you can see my curser right here
1:30:18okay your mower drove back over by the
1:30:22pool and parked and then proceed didn't
1:30:24got in the pool okay so you're in the
1:30:27pool um when is the next time you see
1:30:31Chandler do you want me to show you on
1:30:33that absolutely I would love
1:30:38that why don't you do it and then I'll
1:30:40say it again so it's in the
1:30:42mic
1:30:44um I we were in the
1:30:48pool and I would say it was
1:30:51approximately in this area he was
1:30:54walking this way towards us coming
1:30:57towards us I thought maybe he was going
1:31:00to the car but then he pass the car and
1:31:03kept coming towards us okay so why don't
1:31:05you sit and I'll try to say it again in
1:31:08the mic so you saw him you kind of
1:31:10pointed there's some white I don't know
1:31:12what that is it might be oh those are
1:31:14old beehives Pro I got a bunch of
1:31:16beehives that I I cleaning out my shed
1:31:18and I they were old and I just threw
1:31:20them out there okay was he kind of
1:31:22coming from that area yeah he was
1:31:24walking like that direction like towards
1:31:26that way yeah coming way right and his
1:31:28car was here but he walked past his car
1:31:31you said yes and then walked over by the
1:31:34pool right okay do you remember what he
1:31:36was
1:31:37wearing um like baggy shorts um he he
1:31:43had a shirt on I thought before and when
1:31:45he came back he didn't have a shirt so
1:31:47when he was approaching the pool coming
1:31:48out of the wooded area no shirt right
1:31:51okay
1:31:54all right so he's approaching the pool
1:31:55does he actually get up to the pool yeah
1:31:58he came up to the pool and I said hey
1:32:01Chandler I don't have my I don't have a
1:32:02shirt on sure cuz I I go shirtless in my
1:32:06pool that's kind of why I was waiting
1:32:07for him to leave cuz I wanted to have
1:32:08the Privacy to get in my pool
1:32:11sure okay um you tell him you don't have
1:32:14a shirt on what happens next and he said
1:32:18well if it would be all right I'd like
1:32:19to get in the pool I'm I'm kind of
1:32:21sticky and I'm hot and I remember
1:32:24looking at Dolce because I want to be
1:32:25respectful and I'm I said well I don't
1:32:27have a problem with it Dolce if you
1:32:30don't and she just kind of was Shrugged
1:32:32and you know I kind of could tell she
1:32:34didn't really like it but she just kind
1:32:36of turned and was sort of like
1:32:38whatever and so I said okay and so then
1:32:40I kind of turned and he got in the pool
1:32:43and he went
1:32:45to the east side of the pool and we kind
1:32:48of went to the west side of the
1:32:50pool okay and was he actively swimming
1:32:53or no he just kind of dipped up and down
1:32:56and kind of was like washing you know
1:33:00like himself off he said it was kind of
1:33:03Scratchy on his walk and was itchy and
1:33:07sticky so he was kind of like you did oh
1:33:10no no no no and we know now why but
1:33:14itchy and sticky he just been dealing
1:33:17with human
1:33:18remains oh man he's just like ooh so
1:33:21itchy and sticky let me get in
1:33:24even though you guys don't really like
1:33:25it I'm getting in and let me wash myself
1:33:27off oh know emotion with your hands and
1:33:30you said the word wash like dunk down
1:33:32and then he'd kind of like you know be
1:33:34doing like this and dunk down and kind
1:33:37of okay kind of washing him self rinsing
1:33:40himself off yeah and
1:33:42then and it was odd because he just
1:33:45seemed really different when he he got
1:33:48in the pool from when he was talking to
1:33:51us before different how
1:33:55well he seemed more Lucid like he just
1:33:57seemed more
1:33:59present did you say present or Pleasant
1:34:02present like focused thank you you're
1:34:09welcome okay what happened next well
1:34:13then do was starting to ask him
1:34:16questions cuz I think she was concerned
1:34:18maybe he was doing some drugs and I
1:34:21think she just wanted to sort of
1:34:24see if he was so she started asking him
1:34:27questions and things like that to see
1:34:30how he would respond because while he
1:34:33was gone and we were in the pool that's
1:34:34what she spoke to me mostly about is
1:34:36what's going on with him I'm worried I
1:34:38don't know why he's AC in this way
1:34:41what's he doing and so just to clear
1:34:43this up though no paraphernalia or any
1:34:46evidence of drugs was ever not ever and
1:34:49he admitted we that was one of the
1:34:51questions she says if you're doing drugs
1:34:53Channel I'm telling you right now that's
1:34:55a deal breaker and if you ever come and
1:34:57he said I will never ever bring drugs
1:34:59drugs to the house or I don't jce M
1:35:03remains isn't that I mean he was just
1:35:05there like don't worry I will never
1:35:07bring I'm saying it for YouTube
1:35:08substances to the house I will never do
1:35:11that you don't have to worry about it
1:35:12but like imagine now in hindsight
1:35:14thinking well what did he bring to the
1:35:16house
1:35:18SS and like all kinds of tools that he
1:35:21used to dismember his parents remains
1:35:23with
1:35:24what and his dad's torso and a bin and a
1:35:28tarp and he also put a bag of like
1:35:30bloody rags in the b in front of the
1:35:32house as
1:35:33well wow and he's just like never never
1:35:36I would never bring substances you don't
1:35:38have to worry about that wow do drugs he
1:35:41you know she I just wanted to clear that
1:35:43yeah she confronted him about that okay
1:35:46uh what happens
1:35:47next well we just started talking you
1:35:50know she was worried like where was he
1:35:52going to stay because he he thought he
1:35:54lost his job and she was offered to say
1:35:58he could stay maybe at their her house
1:36:00in town for a while if you needed to
1:36:03pardon me I have to interrupt here this
1:36:04is all here saying uh agreed I'll I'll
1:36:07go ahead and ask to um rephrase the
1:36:10question and uh um those those last
1:36:14responses fall in that category outside
1:36:17of specifics of the conversation
1:36:21um how long was Chandler in the
1:36:25pool oh maybe maybe 15 minutes is
1:36:29roughly all right um and at some point
1:36:32does he get out of the pool first or do
1:36:34you uh he got out first he he was said
1:36:37he was in a hurry he had to go that
1:36:40Catherine was getting dinner or
1:36:41something and so he was like on a
1:36:44mission and had to like let's go and and
1:36:47that and he got out and went to the car
1:36:50and drove off okay and his car that he
1:36:53went to was over there by the oil tank
1:36:55near the wood line
1:36:57right all right I just want to back up
1:37:00here a second um you said at first when
1:37:03you first talked with him on the deck
1:37:05when you were working on a project with
1:37:07Dolce he then left to supposedly go
1:37:10swimming and then you didn't see him
1:37:12until he walked out of the Woodline
1:37:14later about what was the time gap
1:37:17between there between the time he said
1:37:19I'm going to go to the pool and the time
1:37:22he actually went to the pool
1:37:25the first time or the second time or all
1:37:28together all together so the time he's
1:37:30he's you were on the deck working on
1:37:32your project and he showed up and the
1:37:34time he left he from the time he left
1:37:37you at the deck area until you saw him
1:37:39walk out of the wooded area about what
1:37:42was the time frame in
1:37:45there I'm I'm guesstimating you know
1:37:49maybe 45 minutes an hourish maybe okay I
1:37:52it's it's a guest
1:37:54okay it was a while like it just see to
1:37:56me it seemed forever cuz I wanted to get
1:37:58in the pool sure so it just seemed like
1:38:00a long
1:38:04time and then after he got out of the
1:38:06pool he got into his vehicle and drove
1:38:08away yeah now later that day did you
1:38:12find out that he actually had attempted
1:38:15to contact you prior to coming to your
1:38:17property yeah later um I remember seeing
1:38:21the message was blinking on my my
1:38:25landline and so I I pressed it and then
1:38:29a name came up and I didn't know what
1:38:30the I didn't recognize the name and then
1:38:33I heard Chandler's voice so he had left
1:38:36me a message but I didn't realize it
1:38:39until after he'd come and gone and I
1:38:41listened to it later so he left you a
1:38:43message or a voicemail yeah and saying
1:38:45he wanted to come and what could he come
1:38:47and use the pool and did you turn that
1:38:50message or or voicemail over to the
1:38:52damee county sheriff sh's office yes I
1:38:54did and did you turn over a true and
1:38:56accurate copy of that message yes it's
1:38:58still on my it's still on there right
1:39:00now okay I would at this time move
1:39:03exhibit 64 into evidence no objection it
1:39:07is
1:39:13received and I would ask to publish the
1:39:16message to the jury you may
1:39:39this is supposed to be going on
1:39:42okay the um the screen in front of you
1:39:45shows what the jury's seeing no all
1:39:48right thank you that's right there Hi CH
1:39:51this is Chandler
1:39:54um I just got back with some pretty
1:39:57terrible news from my doctor so I was
1:40:01wondering if I could come
1:40:03by I don't know take a couple laps to
1:40:06the pool or hang out something
1:40:10I'm not having the most ideal day I
1:40:16suppose well call me back 920 838 4549
1:40:23thank you
1:40:27bye Monday
1:40:30425
1:40:33p.m. and this was message 116
1:40:42yeah
1:40:46okay on July 7th the next day that
1:40:49Tuesday do you receive any communication
1:40:52from Chandler
1:40:54not directly from Chandler no but I I'd
1:40:57heard otherwise that he was trying to
1:40:59come out and I was having trouble with
1:41:02my phone for some reason wasn't working
1:41:04my landline and I
1:41:05was kind of feeling stressed and didn't
1:41:08really want to deal with anybody at the
1:41:10the farm that day all right and so did
1:41:12Chandler end up coming out on the 7th
1:41:16no or I'm sorry that's the yeah the
1:41:19seventh okay um
1:41:23later in the course of this
1:41:25investigation um various items were
1:41:28found at on your property um that you
1:41:31were married aware of is that
1:41:33fair
1:41:43yes let me inquire Council I think I
1:41:46think the jury entered at 8:45 we're a
1:41:51little over 90 minutes long this might
1:41:53be a good moment to break sure that's
1:41:55just because we're moving into another
1:41:56subject area and we still have cross
1:41:58examination I don't want to tax
1:42:00everybody further uh then about 90
1:42:03minutes plus 10 so we'll take our
1:42:05morning break at this point ladies and
1:42:06gentlemen and we'll come back in 15
1:42:08minutes all R for the
1:42:12jury quick sip of tea or coffee and we
1:42:15are back we're just teleported right
1:42:18through that break okay so we just keep
1:42:20going now with the testimony Jordan said
1:42:23people lie not to disappoint their
1:42:24parents uh who does this to their
1:42:27parents instead of coming clean it's
1:42:29never worth all of this what the hell
1:42:31could have been the outcome if you had
1:42:32just confessed to them we heard
1:42:34yesterday from Christ's best friend that
1:42:37you know the the ch's parents did
1:42:41anything and everything for their sons
1:42:43they would have helped him that's what
1:42:45she said she thinks that if he had just
1:42:46come clean with everything they would
1:42:47have helped him through it you know but
1:42:50instead look what he did oh my
1:42:53goodness attorney Raymond thank you um
1:42:57Crest I'm going to approach you and show
1:42:59you a series of pictures of things found
1:43:02on your property and talk to you about
1:43:05those and we're going to have testimony
1:43:07about this later but exhibit
1:43:0958 um is a garbage can found in the
1:43:12woods uh did you keep a rubber made or
1:43:15black rubber garbage can in your Woods
1:43:19[Music]
1:43:20no and exhibit 59 is that what is that a
1:43:24picture of um that's an old uh I don't
1:43:28know if it's fuel oil or gas it's for
1:43:30scrap and just haven't took it to the
1:43:33salvage yard yet okay um did you keep
1:43:36any tools in exhibit 59 in there yes
1:43:42no what is pitcher
1:43:4560 um that's the entrance to my driveway
1:43:49and I don't recognize the car there's a
1:43:52bag and that's where I keep my Recycling
1:43:54and my trash and that bag appears to be
1:43:57a Target bag um I think so I'm not sure
1:44:01and 61 is a closeup above the same
1:44:07right and 62 and 63 are some items that
1:44:13were found in that Target bag did those
1:44:15items belong to your house no did you uh
1:44:20throw those items away no and and your
1:44:23father is 94 you said yes only other
1:44:26person that lives there right well my
1:44:28brother what he was assisted living at
1:44:30the time okay um so your father it would
1:44:34take great effort to go and throw
1:44:36anything away outside he no he
1:44:40couldn't State at this time would move
1:44:44exhibits 58 through 63 into evidence any
1:44:48objection none they are received and I
1:44:52will ask you about about these in a
1:44:54minute but if you want to just look
1:44:55through those in the meantime I'm going
1:44:57to publish 58 to
1:45:0463 and Miss willai uh the little screen
1:45:08in front of you will have what I'm
1:45:09showing you the J par is working on that
1:45:12that second group of photos that I
1:45:14showed you how would you describe those
1:45:16as a
1:45:18grp there's a group this is my the
1:45:21tobacco shed that you called the Barn
1:45:23it's the
1:45:24shed looks better now though why does it
1:45:28look better now well be oh yeah because
1:45:32I cleaned it out I got a big dumpster
1:45:34been meaning to do it for some years
1:45:37now I didn't get through it cuz I got a
1:45:39little upset there for a
1:45:41second um but 66 through 70 are pictures
1:45:46of your barn before you cleaned it out
1:45:48that's correct um and 71 through 74
1:45:52pictures of something that you later
1:45:53found in your barn during the cleanout
1:45:55that's right okay I would move to admit
1:45:59pictures 66 through 74 any objection no
1:46:03your honor they are received while you
1:46:05have identified the exhibits and
1:46:08testified about them uh the ability to
1:46:10publish them to the jury requires the
1:46:12state to go through them with you again
1:46:14but with the jury able to see those
1:46:15photos at this time okay thank you know
1:46:18it's never perfect because of the glare
1:46:20but um CR the this is the garbage can
1:46:24picture exhibit 58 that I showed you
1:46:26that was found in the woods but it was
1:46:28not yours
1:46:31no and how would you describe exhibit 59
1:46:35it's an old fuel tank that's been
1:46:37sitting there for a while we going to
1:46:39take it to salvage and you have to cut a
1:46:40hole in there so that they know you
1:46:42don't fill it with concrete or something
1:46:43so they want to look in there okay um
1:46:46and again you didn't keep anything such
1:46:48as tools inside it no
1:46:53and exhibit
1:46:5760 uh is that a picture at the end of
1:46:59your driveway
1:47:01right um and is this where you keep the
1:47:04garbage cans yeah that's where I put the
1:47:06trash and the recycling now during the
1:47:09time of this in the first week of July
1:47:12um did you have an experience of your
1:47:14garbage cans being
1:47:16moved no not that I'm aware of I don't
1:47:19you know I don't
1:47:20recall I don't even know if I took tra
1:47:23out that week okay um so you do not
1:47:26recall a day when they may have been at
1:47:28the road and then somebody put them
1:47:30back no I'm not aware of that but that
1:47:33could have happened you know just
1:47:34meaning because DOL say sometimes like
1:47:36if the trash is out and she goes out
1:47:38sometimes she'll put it back and I don't
1:47:40know about it that could have happened I
1:47:41don't know sure fair enough um but
1:47:43there's a Target bag here do you
1:47:45normally keep your trash outside of your
1:47:47garbage cans no I would I would have put
1:47:50it in the trash all right that's exhibit
1:47:5360 exhibit
1:47:5861 uh just a closeup of exhibit 60
1:48:04right all right and then I showed you
1:48:06exhibit 62 stuff that was found inside
1:48:08of that tet bag um some Rags with the
1:48:13substance on them did you throw away
1:48:14those Rags
1:48:17no and exhibit 63 just them separated
1:48:21out
1:48:27yeah that must have been from his toe
1:48:28injury
1:48:30Right Moving On exhibit 66 how would you
1:48:34describe exhibit 66 well that's the
1:48:37north side of my
1:48:40shed and my little lawn
1:48:43mower okay and exhibit 67 yeah it's just
1:48:48showing you the entrance there on the
1:48:50north side
1:48:57exhibit
1:48:5868 yep that's the the messy messy
1:49:08shed uh exhibit 69 more the same
1:49:19right exhibit 70 there's an item here
1:49:24along the back wall kind of BU some
1:49:27boards um yeah there's there's a bird
1:49:29bath there can you tell it all from this
1:49:32angle what was behind the bird bath um
1:49:35well there's a rifle
1:49:36there and at some point you discover a
1:49:40rifle in your barn
1:49:43yes do you keep guns in your barn not
1:49:47normally my dad sometimes he keep a
1:49:49pellet gun up there but he hasn't been
1:49:50walking for a few years so
1:49:53so what did you do when you well first
1:49:55off when did you first see this guy well
1:49:58I was organizing along the wall you know
1:50:01like I say I was cleaning out my shed
1:50:03and I wanted to go through these like
1:50:06garden tools cuz I you know making sure
1:50:08I still use them were they broken when I
1:50:10was going to throw them away so I would
1:50:13and then I was organizing putting Lumber
1:50:14where the lumber goes of recycling where
1:50:16the recycling goes and so I lifted up a
1:50:19board and I saw a barrel of a gun and I
1:50:22I thought huh right away I thought
1:50:25what's my dad what what the heck is he
1:50:26got his pellet gun over here so I I
1:50:30picked it up by the barrel and looked at
1:50:32it and I I right away recognized it
1:50:34wasn't a gun that I'd ever saw or seen
1:50:37ever before and just to be clear for the
1:50:40jury this gun before you lifted it up
1:50:43was behind a board yes it was behind us
1:50:45a bunch of there was like maybe four or
1:50:47five different boards there okay so upon
1:50:50realizing you don't know where this gun
1:50:52came from what do you do well first
1:50:55thing is I just felt sort of this sick
1:50:57feeling and I set it back down and then
1:50:59I went to ask my father just to make
1:51:02sure that he didn't know about any gun
1:51:05in the shed and I went and asked and he
1:51:07said well what does it look like or
1:51:09whatever and I said well Dad I'm just
1:51:11going to call the police and then I
1:51:13called Christa the head of the the
1:51:17investigation she left me a number and I
1:51:20I called her and spoke with her and told
1:51:22her what found and she told me that she
1:51:24was going to send somebody
1:51:26out okay and do you remember roughly
1:51:30what month or oh it was um it was in the
1:51:34middle of October is because I had I I
1:51:36wanted to clean out the shed earlier but
1:51:39police were there for so long I my
1:51:41raspberry started so it was after the
1:51:43raspberries were done which is was
1:51:45sometime in the middle of middle end of
1:51:47October is okay all right so it was a
1:51:50few months later yes okay
1:51:53I'm going to show you exhibit
1:51:5871 is that a picture of the gun that you
1:52:01found in your
1:52:03barn it's kind of a
1:52:05glare oh I'm sorry it is glare yeah
1:52:09that's the rifle that they believed he
1:52:11used to murder his parents with it was
1:52:14an SKS rifle so I mean he wasn't just in
1:52:18the woods back there he was also in cr's
1:52:22shed hiding the murder
1:52:24weapon on that day July 5th of 2021 he
1:52:28was arrested by July 8th but chis had
1:52:30only found this I mean until then they
1:52:32may have really wondered where is the
1:52:33murder
1:52:35weapon well she found this in her shed
1:52:38in October of
1:52:422021 it it looks to be okay do you want
1:52:46to look at the actual photo yeah that
1:52:48would be can do that helpful but it
1:52:51looks
1:53:02similar yes Miss Raymond if you want to
1:53:05show that to the jury as you walk back
1:53:07towards the
1:53:13Elmo bless you EX
1:53:24and exhibit
1:53:2672 let's see if I be a little
1:53:29better that's just the closeup of the
1:53:33same
1:53:37yes and then I actually will publish 73
1:53:41and
1:53:4574 so did the police then in October
1:53:49after you found the gun come and
1:53:51retrieve the gun
1:53:59yes
1:54:01and in July when Chandler was on your
1:54:05farm um did you have your barn or your
1:54:07shed locked at all
1:54:12no no further questions cross
1:54:15examination thank you good morning
1:54:20hi picking up where you just just left
1:54:23off do you ever lock or close up that
1:54:28shed or Barn I haven't for some years
1:54:31when I used to go to Florida in the
1:54:33winter I would close it and lock it but
1:54:35I haven't been there for a while so no
1:54:40and is it fair to say that before you
1:54:43got the garbage bin and did the major
1:54:45cleaning of the shed you didn't know
1:54:48exactly every item that was in there
1:54:51right
1:54:52no not every single item
1:54:55no and you testified that there was a
1:54:58delay in getting the garbage bin and
1:55:01cleaning out that shed because the
1:55:02police were there for a while that's
1:55:05correct how long were they there in
1:55:08possession of your property or on your
1:55:12property seemed like forever um a couple
1:55:15of weeks at least maybe maybe longer and
1:55:19they had closed off that area to you
1:55:23yes they I mean they got kind of upset
1:55:26every time I come up with a lawn mower
1:55:27because I couldn't even mow my lawn and
1:55:30it was frustrating so but they pretty
1:55:32much kept me by my house they didn't
1:55:35really want me anywhere around and was
1:55:37it your understanding that they were
1:55:39searching that area at that time yeah
1:55:42they were searching my whole property
1:55:44they served me with a a
1:55:51warrant now moving back in time a little
1:55:54bit to 4th of July weekend um I think I
1:55:58heard you testified that uh Chandler
1:56:00halderson was not acting like himself is
1:56:03that right that's correct and it was for
1:56:08that that observation that you and dual
1:56:12say might have thought oh is he doing
1:56:14some drugs is that right that yeah was
1:56:18it was a question cuz we couldn't figure
1:56:20out why he seemed a little off
1:56:23and you had never seen him like that
1:56:25before right no and normally he's sort
1:56:28of a a quiet nerdy kid right yeah that's
1:56:32a good
1:56:33description that's all the questions I
1:56:35have thank you can redirect no your
1:56:38honor may miss lasai be excused at this
1:56:41time she's excused but not released
1:56:43correct that means that uh you're still
1:56:46under the subpoena with which you've
1:56:48been served so you can't discuss your
1:56:49testimony with anyone but you're excused
1:56:51unless recalled by the state at any time
1:56:54you can stay in touch with them thank
1:56:55you very much have a good rest of your
1:56:57day see you detective you anticipated my
1:57:00question if you're willing and able and
1:57:03we're on to the next witness I'm sure a
1:57:05lot of you who have never watched the
1:57:06trial which when I did a poll on day one
1:57:09it was like 61% had never seen this
1:57:12trial before and about 20% had seen it
1:57:16or heard about the case but didn't watch
1:57:17the whole trial and then obviously about
1:57:2019% or so had seen the trial and we're
1:57:23watching it again together I've also
1:57:25seen the trial but I'm so glad to be
1:57:26watching it with all of you when I
1:57:28initially covered this trial um just
1:57:30with little videos and things that I was
1:57:31trying to do I was trying to keep up
1:57:33with the trial there were
1:57:3430,000 Grizzlies so you know that that
1:57:38was not the format to do it I can't I
1:57:40couldn't I hadn't covered a trial before
1:57:42so Leticia Stout's trial was my first
1:57:44trial I ever covered on this channel and
1:57:45I'm so so grateful that we can watch
1:57:47this one together because I don't know
1:57:49about you but I had fomo at the time
1:57:51meaning like come on we need to watch it
1:57:53together but I as I say I hadn't covered
1:57:55i' never covered a trial before so now
1:57:57we know how and now we are watching it
1:58:00together 350,000 Grizzlies later can you
1:58:03believe it so thank you all for being
1:58:04here I see the same question over and
1:58:06over again nightbot is answering those
1:58:07questions this trial happened in January
1:58:10of 2022 that's why they're wearing masks
1:58:12it's a past trial that we are watching
1:58:13for the first time together so thank you
1:58:15to all 4,000 of you that are here that's
1:58:18amazing okay so what I think you're all
1:58:21anticipating is what I was trying to say
1:58:23the ex-girlfriend you right the chander
1:58:26well ex-girlfriend at that point she's
1:58:28going to testify on this day day three
1:58:31so I'm looking forward to watching her
1:58:32testimony with you as well that's coming
1:58:34up but first you know they make us wait
1:58:36there's other Witnesses for us to get to
1:58:38detectives doctors we just heard from
1:58:41Katherine the girlfriend of the times
1:58:43mother and her partner as well and I
1:58:46mean that I don't know if you heard it
1:58:48for the first time you're never going to
1:58:49forget that testimony right what
1:58:51Chandler was doing on cr's property oh
1:58:54man okay so just by the way this is a
1:58:5610day trial and we're going to be
1:58:58watching all of it without a break okay
1:59:01you have plans for New Year now you do
1:59:03if you didn't have plans now you do I'll
1:59:05see you on the 31st I'll see you on the
1:59:061st and I think we'll go until about the
1:59:08sixth and we'll also watch the verdict
1:59:10and sentencing together to safely and
1:59:12responsibly testify without a mask
1:59:14please do so thank you attorney Brown
1:59:16good afternoon please State and spell
1:59:17your name for the jury it's Brent bstock
1:59:21b r n n t b a v e r s t o c k what do
1:59:26you do for a living sir I'm a detective
1:59:29with the D County Sheriff's Office uh in
1:59:31your role as a detective with the D
1:59:32County Sheriff's Office were you asked
1:59:33to follow up in the investigation of two
1:59:35missing people Bart halderson and Christ
1:59:37halderson in the early part of July of
1:59:392021 yes uh initially what was your role
1:59:42in the investigation uh I was not
1:59:44initially a part of the uh first
1:59:47response to it however um maybe shortly
1:59:51before noon on July 8th uh detective
1:59:53Lizz Allen came to my office uh she said
1:59:56she had uh just had a phone call uh with
1:59:59the mother of Katherine melander who was
2:00:01the girlfriend of Chandler halderson um
2:00:04and during that phone call um she had
2:00:07intended to do initially just a a phone
2:00:09interview just just kind of get some
2:00:10background information but some things
2:00:12on that phone call alerted her to
2:00:14believe that we needed to follow up with
2:00:16a uh in-person interview uh so she came
2:00:19to my office and asked me to to sit in
2:00:21on that interview because we try to
2:00:22interview people you know with at least
2:00:24two detectives there to support each
2:00:26other sure and was that with uh Dolce
2:00:29that was with Dolce correct and um just
2:00:32briefly if you could describe dolce's
2:00:34kind of emotional state during some of
2:00:35that
2:00:36interview um well we got to the location
2:00:39where we agreed to interview her um
2:00:41which is she was in the middle of some
2:00:43classes uh trying to improve her
2:00:46education um and we sat in a a side
2:00:49little conference room and she was
2:00:52emotionally distraught um
2:00:54she kind of had this look of fear and
2:00:57panic in her eyes Okay um now they've
2:01:01testified so we're not going to talk
2:01:02much about that interview um but at some
2:01:04point do you end up uh going to a farm
2:01:06that you thought might have been visited
2:01:08by Chandler halderson over the Fourth of
2:01:09July weekend and leading into the next
2:01:11week yeah based upon our interviews with
2:01:14them um uh we determined we needed to
2:01:17get out to that farm right away and
2:01:19search it sure um I think it's been
2:01:21disced described as being near Cottage
2:01:23Grove but kind of in a rural area of
2:01:25Dane County that sound fair to you yes
2:01:27the entire location of that farm is that
2:01:29here in Dane County Wisconsin yes it is
2:01:31and it fairly remote yeah uh had you
2:01:34ever been there before no um if you
2:01:36could describe the farm just in general
2:01:38to us sure
2:01:40um uh well it's uh probably 30 to 40
2:01:44acres uh a lot of it is wooded uh the
2:01:47house sits in a wooded area um there's a
2:01:51um driveway that goes up from the road
2:01:54um that kind of turns off to where the
2:01:55house is and then if you kept going
2:01:57straight on that it would turn into a
2:01:59gravel and then up into the grassy area
2:02:02would be where like the the back shed
2:02:04was and the pool and The
2:02:06Raspberries did you personally yourself
2:02:08walk out there with Crest or Dolce or
2:02:11anybody yes I did who was with
2:02:13you um well I had first gone there um
2:02:17responded out there pretty quickly um
2:02:21there were a lot of red flags that
2:02:22popped up during my interview uh with
2:02:25with crescent and um I called to the
2:02:28command post uh to detective Sims I
2:02:31talked to her and I'm like I need some
2:02:32more people we need to get out here we
2:02:33need to search this place right away um
2:02:36but we were pretty stretched inin at
2:02:38that point we had sent a team up to uh a
2:02:41team was uh headed up to the cabin to uh
2:02:43do some more investigation up there I'm
2:02:46like we need some more people um we need
2:02:49to get out there and search it uh so
2:02:52she was able
2:02:53to uh provide at least another detective
2:02:55detective Tim blank along with me and uh
2:02:58detective Liz Allen and then while I was
2:03:00on the way I contacted uh Barry man from
2:03:03the D County medical examiner's office
2:03:05and asked him to respond with his caver
2:03:06dog to help us do the search sure um I
2:03:10got there and nobody was there I had
2:03:12expected uh cres and du say to meet me
2:03:16to beat me there so I went to the house
2:03:18knocked on the door and nobody answered
2:03:20and I got worried that they may want and
2:03:21started searching on their own so I went
2:03:24up
2:03:25there
2:03:27um I went up into the grassy area like
2:03:30can see you have a photo of uh the farm
2:03:33there um so I could see whether or not
2:03:35anybody was back by there and uh you
2:03:39know I noticed you know during
2:03:41my contact with uh Crest she did talk
2:03:44that she had recently seen vultures uh
2:03:47circling over the property your I'm
2:03:49going to J us here say sure
2:03:52sustained did you yourself at some point
2:03:54see some birds uh over the woods yes and
2:03:57what were those birds uh turkey vultures
2:04:00and did that raise red flags to you oh
2:04:03yeah why um you know most birds really
2:04:07don't have a sense of smell except for
2:04:09turkey vultures um turkey vultures
2:04:12actually you when the body when a body
2:04:15or an animal or creature dies uh starts
2:04:19going through some some changes the
2:04:21microorganisms on there start producing
2:04:23different gases and it eminates an odor
2:04:26U turkey vultures can smell that um and
2:04:28when they do they'll start circling the
2:04:30area to locate where it's coming from
2:04:32and were those turkey vultures over the
2:04:34wooded area at the farm when I got there
2:04:37yeah okay um did you find Crest and
2:04:40Dolce as you walked back there um
2:04:43eventually I walked up there I didn't
2:04:45see them and then dul or Crest came out
2:04:47of the back sliding patio door and met
2:04:50me um
2:04:52and then um I asked her if she could
2:04:55show me again where she had seen
2:04:57Chandler um back by the woods um and we
2:05:00walked back up to the um to the area of
2:05:04the shed and she showed me when you say
2:05:08she showed you did she Point physically
2:05:10yes she did all right and so what I'm
2:05:12going to have you do and because she's
2:05:13already testified you can't say what she
2:05:14said but you you saw her point at a
2:05:17location yes can you please stand up for
2:05:19one second and point on that map to the
2:05:21location that CR pointed out to you as
2:05:23where she saw Chandler sure thank
2:05:26[Music]
2:05:28you I ask her to tell me exactly where
2:05:31she had seen the vehicle parked um we
2:05:34walked up and came over this area she
2:05:36said the vehicle was parked in this area
2:05:39then uh she said that when she first saw
2:05:42Chandler coming out of you're on
2:05:44objection hear say again I'm sorry I
2:05:47missed the part of the objection it was
2:05:48hear say again about what someone told
2:05:51him sustain and maybe I'll ask a better
2:05:53question um when she physically herself
2:05:56pointed at a location where she saw
2:05:58Chandler coming out of the woods where
2:05:59was that location we were standing right
2:06:02about here okay she pointed back okay
2:06:05physically put her hand up and pointed
2:06:07yes okay thank you you can take a seat
2:06:08it's very difficult to see because
2:06:10obviously they pointing way we can't see
2:06:12so you know what I'm going to do I'm
2:06:14going to do a little map time for you
2:06:15now
2:06:16[Music]
2:06:28[Music]
2:06:37okay so here's a little map so that we
2:06:39can actually see what the heck is going
2:06:41on because they keep pointing down there
2:06:44and like we can't see that area so this
2:06:47is cr's property and it is in well I
2:06:51don't know if she lives anymore I'm not
2:06:52I'm only sharing public information per
2:06:54the map that they just showed this is a
2:06:56disclaimer for YouTube okay not giving
2:06:58any way any details doxing anyone this
2:07:01is the map that they're showing at a
2:07:02trial that we are busy studying as a
2:07:04community okay so this is the pool as
2:07:07you can see there there's the pool
2:07:09here's that uh that
2:07:11Barn okay the house you know they drive
2:07:15in they drive in here as they show they
2:07:18keep pointing to that as well and the
2:07:19house is here you could like see
2:07:22sort of the roof there okay so they
2:07:24would drive that little lawn mower out
2:07:26to get to the pool you see my pointer
2:07:28right okay and where Chandler was so
2:07:33when they showed like this we can't see
2:07:35really Beyond here so when they show it
2:07:39Chandler was literally all the way down
2:07:43down here down
2:07:44here like this guy right well somewhere
2:07:48here along this wood line he went into
2:07:50this wooded area
2:07:53to dispose of his father's torso and a
2:07:57bin and a
2:07:59tarp so later in this trial on this day
2:08:01they actually do the court feed showed
2:08:03pictures of the Torso and please don't
2:08:06worry I'm not going to be showing that I
2:08:07have blowed that out of course for us I
2:08:09don't show anything graphic like that
2:08:11not because I know someone will be here
2:08:13we're all adults we can see it we can
2:08:15handle it well out of respect for the
2:08:17victims and their family I don't show
2:08:19things like that and also to abide by
2:08:21YouTube tubes PG-13 Community guidelines
2:08:24okay so when you're not you know the the
2:08:28media showing this and you're just one
2:08:30little YouTuber yeah that could get you
2:08:32in big trouble and we don't want that so
2:08:33I don't show it um but they they they go
2:08:37into this wooded area this is where they
2:08:38saw those turkey vultures they said just
2:08:40flying around here and they're like Wow
2:08:42Let's go in there and I mean they could
2:08:45not believe what they found so Chandler
2:08:47was far from the pool is the point if
2:08:49you see the house here and he's like I'm
2:08:50going to go for a swim and then he goes
2:08:52out here like to the pool the pool cover
2:08:54is not taken off he goes at some point
2:08:57he Parks the vehicle around here just
2:08:58before this Barn okay with the the back
2:09:02facing this way facing south so then he
2:09:06could take the bin out of the the
2:09:07vehicle I would assume and roll it down
2:09:09and into the woods and then leave the
2:09:11bin there his father's torso
2:09:14what and then go back into the barn and
2:09:17put the rifle in there and then
2:09:18somewhere around here it's a little
2:09:20blurry but around here is an old oil
2:09:23drum and then he put all the tools that
2:09:25he well I don't know all he put many
2:09:26tools that he used to dismember his
2:09:29parents remains he put the tools in
2:09:30there how do they know that cuz there
2:09:32was the parents DNA on the tools there
2:09:35was still some blood on the tools like
2:09:38oh my goodness so yeah this is the
2:09:40little Prairie as I think Dave in chat
2:09:43told us a prairie a meadow like property
2:09:46right okay so that's the map time that
2:09:48we've done and it's in Cottage Grove
2:09:50which is about
2:09:5216 to 20 miles from where Chandler lived
2:09:55in the forest all right now let's go
2:09:57back to the map see now now we can at
2:10:00least visualize when they when they're
2:10:02showing that he went like down this way
2:10:03now at least we can visualize that he
2:10:05went down into the woods there I hope
2:10:07that was helpful let's keep going do you
2:10:10want to describe that for the record
2:10:11Council I will uh I I would say that the
2:10:14witness uh just pointed to uh toward the
2:10:17wood line approximately uh a foot uh
2:10:21below that Barn where the barn is
2:10:24council's nodding in agreement so I
2:10:26think that's fair to say um at that
2:10:29point what did you
2:10:31do um well my partners hadn't arrived
2:10:34yet so I asked for Crest to to go back
2:10:37and wait in the house and I told that my
2:10:38partners would be here soon and we'd
2:10:39start doing our search returned back to
2:10:42the driveway and detective blank and
2:10:44detective Allen uh had uh arrived
2:10:47shortly thereafter and then uh we went
2:10:49back up to that area and we started
2:10:50looking around so I'm going to ask you
2:10:52what you you saw first when you got down
2:10:55to that area all these I'll pause for a
2:10:58second I apologize for for maybe being
2:10:59sprad at there all of these vehicles in
2:11:01the photograph those are related to law
2:11:03enforcement and the investigation
2:11:04correct correct there were not a bunch
2:11:06of vehicles parked out there when you
2:11:07were there no were there any Vehicles
2:11:09parked out there other than law
2:11:11enforcement
2:11:11vehicles uh there's one vehicle parked
2:11:14inside the shed but not visible I think
2:11:16from that photograph understood as you
2:11:19got over toward uh let's say that junk
2:11:21pile um before the grass gets longer
2:11:24there did you see any signs that a car
2:11:26had been over there yes what did you see
2:11:29well detective blank pointed it out
2:11:30first uh he pointed over and he said
2:11:33well looks like car's driven through the
2:11:34Tall Grass over here like yeah it does
2:11:38so we went over there and uh we saw
2:11:39there were two tracks of the taller
2:11:41grass the grass is probably about you
2:11:44know waist high uh you can see the two
2:11:47track marks that go back along the
2:11:48parallel with the wood line there
2:11:51okay and uh at that point or shortly
2:11:55thereafter
2:11:56uh you and other detectives began maybe
2:11:59searching a little bit closer into where
2:12:01those tire tracks went yeah we began to
2:12:03follow them um they went back uh
2:12:07probably about to an area where uh there
2:12:11were some some white wooden boxes that
2:12:13are old beehives they just kind of
2:12:15stored along the the the tree line and
2:12:18that's before you entered the woods
2:12:19correct that's before we entered the
2:12:20woods okay so we're going to pause there
2:12:22and I'm going to have you look at a
2:12:23couple of exhibits first so we're all on
2:12:25the same page exhibits 75 uh through 81
2:12:29I just page through those and give me
2:12:30just uh in general what am I looking at
2:12:32there okay uh 75 is the driveway
2:12:37entrance uh for the um the residents to
2:12:41the
2:12:42farm okay you can keep going okay uh 76
2:12:47is just going up further along the
2:12:49driveway you can see it starts to split
2:12:50at the end there uh this little angle to
2:12:53the right here goes towards the house
2:12:55and the one to that continues straight
2:12:57on is the one that continues to where it
2:12:59becomes gravel and goes up towards the
2:13:03field um here's where if you were take
2:13:05that little fork in the driveway and go
2:13:07right you would see the
2:13:10house that's number
2:13:1377 number 78 is
2:13:17the the back side of the house but if
2:13:20you drive in uh to the driveway so the
2:13:24garage would be on the right side of
2:13:27this picture so this is this would be
2:13:29facing back towards um like the pool
2:13:33area sure that's number
2:13:3678 79 is the gravel driveway where the
2:13:39paved portion turns into gravel and then
2:13:41continues up towards the
2:13:42pool okay that's 79 80 80 is uh after
2:13:47the the gravel driveway ends and we're
2:13:50now heading the it's just the grassy
2:13:52area to where the uh you see the
2:13:54raspberry um Garden here and then the
2:13:57pool
2:13:59okay and then
2:14:0181 uh this is the area in which
2:14:06um
2:14:10uh Crescent had uh pointed out to me
2:14:13that the vehicle had parked and she
2:14:15actually noted out that these tire marks
2:14:18here in the grass gor I'm going to
2:14:19object again as you're saying sustained
2:14:22sure and but is 81 that area that was
2:14:23pointed out correct all right I'll take
2:14:25those exhibits I'll move to publish U 75
2:14:29through 81 I think they haven't been
2:14:30moved into evidence yet oh mov into
2:14:32evidence objection they are received you
2:14:34may public and if you could put the HDMI
2:14:362 on I'm going to display these off my
2:14:37computer so there's no
2:14:41glare um exhibit number 75 we're looking
2:14:44at the driveway coming from the street
2:14:45up to the house is that correct that is
2:14:48correct we'll just page through these 76
2:14:50that that's that driveway going up right
2:14:52before the split correct 77 coming up
2:14:56toward the house yep that's the split to
2:14:59the right um looking at the
2:15:01house 78 a view of the house correct
2:15:04that's the lawnmower we might have heard
2:15:05about people driving around yes and uh
2:15:08if we're looking at this house um uh
2:15:12Beyond it is the pool and the shed and
2:15:14that grassy area correct uh if you were
2:15:17standing at that patio door and looking
2:15:19away from the house would be the pool
2:15:20okay
2:15:2279 the gravel driveway as it goes up
2:15:24toward the pool in that area
2:15:27correct 80 uh now we're we're up kind of
2:15:30in that grass area yep that's where the
2:15:32gravel ends and it it's just the open
2:15:35area and 81 I think you describe this as
2:15:38generally kind of the start of the area
2:15:40that was pointed out to you yeah it's
2:15:42the mod area just to the south of the uh
2:15:46Big Shed sure uh I'm going to do this a
2:15:49little bit differently now I'm going to
2:15:50show you what's been mared in this case
2:15:51is exhibits number 82 through 107 just
2:15:54by yourself page through those and the
2:15:56question at the end is going to be are
2:15:58these photographs of essentially that
2:16:00area leading up uh to what you found and
2:16:03the items that you found in the woods
2:16:04I'm going to ask you and then we're
2:16:05going to look at them all together okay
2:16:06okay so you can just look through those
2:16:07and let me know if that's what we're
2:16:08looking
2:16:10at question uh are those photographs of
2:16:14leading out to the area that was pointed
2:16:15out to you and then ultimately your
2:16:17search into the woods and maybe what you
2:16:18found yes they are P true true and
2:16:21accurate to the best of your knowledge
2:16:23yes they are I would move 82 through 107
2:16:25no objection they are received all right
2:16:27we're going to do this together we're
2:16:28going to walk through them um so you see
2:16:32um and detective you you can see the
2:16:35same exhibit on the computer monitor if
2:16:37you wish to and that might help pick up
2:16:39the microphone better as we go through
2:16:40this so we'll start with 82 what are we
2:16:42looking at there and what did you
2:16:43personally observe when you were out
2:16:46there so there's the mowed section of
2:16:48the grass which is just south of the
2:16:50barn um there's a you know a stack of
2:16:53old logs sitting there but to the right
2:16:56is where we could see what appeared to
2:16:57be two uh tire marks going into the
2:16:59deeper grass did you follow those tire
2:17:01marks yes I
2:17:05did excuse me 83 of just a different
2:17:09view of those tire marks y 84 what are
2:17:13we looking at
2:17:14there uh just a continuation of the tire
2:17:16marks
2:17:18um where the
2:17:21tire marks
2:17:23end um there was another area of
2:17:26depressed
2:17:27grass um which would been if you're
2:17:30looking at the two tire marks um where
2:17:33they stop there's another area of
2:17:36depressed grass and all different
2:17:37directions at the end of it um sitting
2:17:40right there okay we'll go to 85 this is
2:17:45maybe looking more into the woods at
2:17:46this point yeah so you're standing near
2:17:50where all that grass grass was padded
2:17:52down at the end of the tire marks in the
2:17:53grass you look over and you can see uh
2:17:57more of the grass is like pressed down
2:17:59uh heading towards the woods and uh was
2:18:02that you know we're seeing it on a
2:18:03photograph but I'll say I'll ask you
2:18:05because you were out there was it
2:18:06apparent to you that this was an area
2:18:07that had been walked through or trampled
2:18:09in some way by someone or something yes
2:18:13and did you follow it yes I did okay and
2:18:15so you entered the woods right there
2:18:17correct all right we're going to pause
2:18:18one second on this big blowup if you
2:18:20could just stand stand up for one second
2:18:21and point to the jury on exhibit number
2:18:2357 where you cut into the woods all
2:18:26right for the record the witness um ran
2:18:28his hands essentially down the wood line
2:18:30from the junk pile uh to the the
2:18:32beehives and then uh drug them into the
2:18:34woods okay rtion very good 86 uh
2:18:39photograph of that trampled
2:18:43area 87 what are we looking at
2:18:46there so uh picture doesn't show it as
2:18:50much but there's uh again you can see
2:18:53the vegetation in the in the ground
2:18:56there but it was very directional as far
2:18:58as this area to see like this
2:19:00log um the vegetation had been trampled
2:19:04down so it's hard to tell from this
2:19:07picture but there's actually a downward
2:19:08slope here you know if if the trees
2:19:10weren't here it would be a good little
2:19:11sleding Hill for little kids but there's
2:19:13like a downward slope that goes down
2:19:15into you can see like a little brush
2:19:19pile uh down there
2:19:21okay 88 what are we looking at there uh
2:19:24more of the trampled grass that goes to
2:19:26this log uh that goes
2:19:28across um and then you can see they get
2:19:32the green moss on the log but there's
2:19:34areas where the the green moss had been
2:19:37uh scraped off as
2:19:39if uh something had scraped it off did
2:19:42you notice anything ultimately beyond
2:19:44that log at this
2:19:47point yeah um the pile of sticks on the
2:19:50other side of the log and there was just
2:19:52something
2:19:53that wasn't natural under the sticks did
2:19:58you go check it
2:20:00out yeah I got as close as I had
2:20:06to 89 of photo just moving a little bit
2:20:10closer yep again you see the scrapes on
2:20:13the log there um I just under the Moss
2:20:16and then um you can see the pile of
2:20:20sticks there there and there's something
2:20:21underneath it um couldn't quite tell
2:20:25what it was right away
2:20:27so I stepped over the log and got a
2:20:29little bit of a closer
2:20:31look and what did you
2:20:35find I didn't know what it was at first
2:20:37um what do you mean by
2:20:39that it
2:20:41just it took me a while the process what
2:20:44I was seeing you know
2:20:46it um
2:20:49then it was became obvious that I was
2:20:52looking at a human torso okay so we're
2:20:56going to move in a little bit closer to
2:20:57photograph
2:20:5990 I don't know if that's what they
2:21:01thought they're going to find there
2:21:02right they're like okay so we followed
2:21:04the tracks somebody drove here Chandler
2:21:07was doing something weird I know it was
2:21:10at that point a homicide investigation
2:21:11but
2:21:12damn you know like going there and then
2:21:16being like what is that and taking a
2:21:19moment to say I don't know what that is
2:21:21and then
2:21:22realizing it's Bart's torso I mean so
2:21:26yes I blocked it out so now we're just
2:21:28going to hear some audio for a little
2:21:29bit here but they show it a lot and
2:21:32again we're starting to maybe be able to
2:21:33see that what you saw that there yes
2:21:37under those
2:21:38sticks
2:21:41okay going to
2:21:4391 a different view of kind of looking
2:21:45at through those
2:21:48sticks yeah and that this is about the
2:21:51view that I had
2:21:54um you could see um the flesh colored
2:21:57skin on the right uh and the the belt um
2:22:03and
2:22:04pants and a a black rope attached to it
2:22:08notice uh you can see the Rope coming
2:22:10out uh from the bottom of the stick
2:22:13pile okay we're going to go to the next
2:22:15photo which is
2:22:1692 just a closeup of under those sticks
2:22:20yes
2:22:21at this point Council I will caution and
2:22:24remind the jurors that um obviously at
2:22:26some point these photographs will become
2:22:29more explicit as necessary for the
2:22:32state's casein Chief and um I just
2:22:35remind you to observe them for whatever
2:22:37length of time you believe is necessary
2:22:39as a juror to do your job if anyone
2:22:41needs a pause we'll be happy to do that
2:22:43and I know attorney brown or other
2:22:46Council if they're using any of these
2:22:47photos will alert you every time the
2:22:49photo is going to change so that if you
2:22:51have diverted your gaze you'll know to
2:22:53look back to see the next photo please
2:22:55continue thank you okay we'll go to the
2:22:58next photo
2:22:5993 what are we looking at there um
2:23:03that's the rope that um was attached to
2:23:05the
2:23:08body is the rope in the upper right hand
2:23:11corner no it's all throughout the
2:23:12picture there I don't know if you can
2:23:14see from your angle but okay thank you
2:23:15it's all throughout the picture there
2:23:17thank you coiled up like a snake photo
2:23:20which is
2:23:2294 now we're briefly goingon to turn
2:23:24away but what is that that's a garbage
2:23:27can and uh where was that in relation to
2:23:30the
2:23:31Torso uh so in relation to so this is
2:23:35back up closer to the top of the hill um
2:23:38off to the right out of picture would be
2:23:41where the uh uh beehive boxes
2:23:44were okay and that tarp was out there
2:23:48around the time you found the Torso or
2:23:50that that that garbage can the garbage
2:23:52can was there there was the tarp was
2:23:53inside of it excuse me and then is this
2:23:55a closeup exhibit number 95 yes okay now
2:24:00moving back obviously Number 96 we're
2:24:03back to looking at that pile of sticks
2:24:06correct correct we're looking at the
2:24:08human torso underneath the uh pile of
2:24:11sticks was it a considerable pile of of
2:24:14debris on top of the Torso if you could
2:24:16describe it any way you could you know
2:24:17it wasn't natural to it it it looked
2:24:19like it had been ulated and placed on
2:24:21top um it there wasn't another pile of
2:24:25sticks nearby similarly um it mostly a
2:24:28collection of of dead wood that was
2:24:31placed on top okay the next photo um is
2:24:35number 97 just looking at it from a
2:24:38different angle yeah there you can see
2:24:41the belts with the rope tied around the
2:24:43waist okay um so the Rope was both off
2:24:46to the side and we we saw you saw it
2:24:48around the waist correct okay
2:24:51um number 98 what am I looking at
2:24:57there um you're looking at the Torso uh
2:25:00with
2:25:01uh I believe that's going to be the uh
2:25:04most obvious sign would be like the
2:25:07right shoulder with the arm severed off
2:25:09the head
2:25:11missing okay we'll go to the next photo
2:25:14which is
2:25:1699 what are we looking at there at the
2:25:19upper shoulders of of the back of the
2:25:23Torso going to go to the next photo it's
2:25:26100 what are we looking at there uh you
2:25:29can see the back of the Torso um again
2:25:32you see the the belt and the pants the
2:25:35rope tied around the waist you can see
2:25:37the the back hair is uh pretty visible
2:25:41okay now I know we're looking at these
2:25:42all at once but um I think you mentioned
2:25:45earlier on on the way out to the the
2:25:47property knowing what you had heard
2:25:49you'd already called Dr or you'd already
2:25:50called Barry man who's the director of
2:25:52the medical examiner's office at some
2:25:54point other people ared during this
2:25:56search right from the medical examiner's
2:25:57office and things of that sort yes okay
2:26:00and while we're looking at them all in
2:26:01one group um there was a removal of the
2:26:04debris at some points over the Torso um
2:26:06kind of supervised by everyone who was
2:26:08out there making sure it was done
2:26:09correctly correct okay so the next photo
2:26:12we're going to start to see um what that
2:26:14looked like maybe after some of the
2:26:16debris was removed okay um we're going
2:26:17to go to photograph 101
2:26:21and just describe that if you could for
2:26:22the record again it's the the Torso we
2:26:25found however um all the branches have
2:26:28been removed from the top of
2:26:30it okay
2:26:34um was that the position it was in after
2:26:36all the branches were removed yes okay
2:26:40and I think you testified previously
2:26:42that that the the limbs and were severed
2:26:45in the head um a couple different views
2:26:48of that exist in terms of photographs
2:26:50so we're going to go to exhibit number
2:26:53102 I don't think it'll be much longer
2:26:55than I'm blocking it out so just hang in
2:26:57there for those of you are impatient
2:26:58like what are we looking at I know
2:26:59there's a lot of visual doners here this
2:27:01is not something we want to see or if
2:27:03you do want to see it yes on the
2:27:05original Court feeds you will see it
2:27:07it's a it's still out there it's still
2:27:09up there survived YouTube's rules damn
2:27:12but also whether there were YouTube
2:27:14rules or not I wouldn't show it on my
2:27:16channel and is that a a different
2:27:19View yes it is
2:27:23okay now anatomically um standing how
2:27:27the body is is it facing down if the if
2:27:30the head were still present would it be
2:27:32facing down are we looking at that
2:27:33person's back yes the chest would be
2:27:36toward the ground at this point back is
2:27:38facing upward okay we're going to go to
2:27:40the next photograph which is
2:27:43103 and what is
2:27:45that that is a
2:27:47u a defect in the in the back which
2:27:51would
2:27:52indicate um at least from the number of
2:27:54times that I've seen it personally that
2:27:57they uh there was a wound there okay
2:28:01consistent with a bullet wound yeah I'm
2:28:04going to object at this point as to
2:28:06foundation and um expertise so that's
2:28:11how they know that they were shot but
2:28:13they actually don't have confirmation
2:28:15that Crystal was shot
2:28:18they they investigation speculated so
2:28:22but they only ever found his mother's
2:28:26legs and then his father's torso was out
2:28:29in this area on cr's property and they
2:28:31found some over just over 103 fragments
2:28:35of human bones in the fireplace in the
2:28:39ash trap of the fireplace as well so but
2:28:42how absolutely horrifying they don't
2:28:44know exactly what happened to Christa
2:28:46because they only found her legs and
2:28:48there was not in this area there was
2:28:49actually in an area where he likeed to
2:28:51go swimming on the Wisconsin River I'll
2:28:56sustain I think the the description of a
2:28:59defect is is appropriate based upon what
2:29:02we have as a foundation sure we'll hear
2:29:04from the medical examiners later um
2:29:06detective but I'm going to go back one
2:29:07photograph to 102 um is that defect
2:29:09present in that photograph as well yes
2:29:11it is and if you could just physic again
2:29:13you know how it works with court we're
2:29:14taking a record could you describe
2:29:16physically on the the Torso where that
2:29:17defect is on that person uh in the
2:29:20center of the back um probably you
2:29:23[Music]
2:29:25know8 inches above the Belt Line okay so
2:29:2968 Ines understood we'll go back to 103
2:29:32which we've already looked at um we're
2:29:34going to look at the next
2:29:35photograph just 104 what are we looking
2:29:38at
2:29:38[Music]
2:29:41there we're looking at um what would be
2:29:44the the the buttocks of the
2:29:46Torso the belt and uh the pants which uh
2:29:51had been looked appeared to have been
2:29:53cut uh at the top left of the
2:29:55screen um as well as some red staining
2:29:59uh along the pants and the Rope again
2:30:03tighter on the
2:30:04waist um and we go to number 105 here we
2:30:09see someone uh manipulating uh that
2:30:11clothing um someone involved in the
2:30:13investigation obviously yes okay um what
2:30:17are we looking at there
2:30:21um looking at the uh the upper portion
2:30:24of the pants where the
2:30:29um uh what would be just underneath the
2:30:32back of the belt to where the pants meet
2:30:34that the uh fabric had um began to
2:30:39tear
2:30:41um obviously the the Torso needed to be
2:30:44removed from the from the area it was in
2:30:46and taken somewhere else yes uh that was
2:30:48done by the medical examiner correct
2:30:51doctors came out and and helped with
2:30:52that yes um in the process of doing that
2:30:55part of what happens is the Torso moved
2:30:57from maybe where it is onto a bag or a
2:30:59sheet something of that sort right for
2:31:02transport uh it would be uh placed into
2:31:05a sealed in my experience every time
2:31:08we've done it it's it's always placed
2:31:09into a what would we call a body bag um
2:31:13sometimes different size bags are used
2:31:15uh but yeah it would be for to preserve
2:31:17anything that was on it and to transport
2:31:19it okay and that was done in this case
2:31:21yes I'm going to show the next exhibit
2:31:24106 um is that the beginnings of that
2:31:26process of rolling the Torso over and
2:31:28and maybe onto a more sterile surface
2:31:30yes okay and now we're looking at the
2:31:33front of that torso
2:31:40correct and I'm going to go to the last
2:31:41exhibit uh 107 after the Torso was
2:31:44rolled over um something was found
2:31:46underneath
2:31:47it black item corre
2:31:50yeah you could see it um even when the
2:31:53Torso it was sticking out from
2:31:54underneath it um it was
2:31:56a black T-shirt uh you can
2:32:00see um the many
2:32:03uh uh maggots that were crawling around
2:32:06the shirt and around the uh the wounds
2:32:08on the Torso okay judge can we shut this
2:32:10off thank you um couple of questions
2:32:13about that um you ended you said that
2:32:16there were some some maggots and things
2:32:18of that sort were insects um and and the
2:32:21natural processes beginning to become a
2:32:23problem for that torso in your
2:32:24observation become a problem for the
2:32:26Torso in terms of the deterioration of
2:32:28the Torso were there insects and things
2:32:29of that sort around well typically we'll
2:32:31call in a forensic entomologist um but
2:32:33the yeah it's part of the decomposition
2:32:35process when a uh a any animal or any
2:32:40living tissue is exposed to the elements
2:32:43flies will come they'll lay their eggs
2:32:45within a certain amount of time those
2:32:46eggs will hatch into maggots and the
2:32:47maggots will feed and uh begin to
2:32:49consume um and uh continue on with the
2:32:53process of breaking down the body okay
2:32:56um can you imagine being on jury duty in
2:32:59this trial already with opening
2:33:01statements you're like what he's accused
2:33:05of doing what and then you have to see
2:33:06all of this evidence I mean I don't
2:33:08think that this was his plan his
2:33:10original plan I think that he could he
2:33:12thought he could use the fireplace at
2:33:14the home to you know incinerate The
2:33:17Remains he had a measuring tape next to
2:33:18the the fireplace and he was trying very
2:33:20hard for many hours to keep that fire
2:33:23going but he probably realized this is
2:33:25not going to work this will just so then
2:33:28he must have clearly had to come up with
2:33:29another plan quickly cuz he already had
2:33:32plans for the 4th of July to go to ch's
2:33:35property so he probably thought aha so
2:33:37I'm going to go there have some lunch
2:33:40okay and then ask if I can come back to
2:33:42use the pool and there his plan went
2:33:44he's just like I'll just scatter their
2:33:47remains cuz he scattered them all over
2:33:49the place right it wasn't just on chry's
2:33:51property and as I say they only found
2:33:54Christ's
2:33:55legs we're we're coming to an end but
2:33:57fair to say that while you may have been
2:34:00the first one to come upon this a lot of
2:34:02people ultimately descended on this farm
2:34:04and got involved in the investigation at
2:34:05that point yes okay and in fact we're
2:34:07probably going to hear from you again in
2:34:08this case aren't
2:34:10we probably I would think so okay I have
2:34:12no further questions for now for the
2:34:14detective cross- examination nothing for
2:34:16now thank you may the witness be excused
2:34:19but not released
2:34:20yes thank you so much detective thank
2:34:22you have a good remainder of your day
2:34:24sir attorney Brown uh I think it would
2:34:26be a fair place to break uh for
2:34:31lunch did you open your lunch boxes
2:34:33close them lunch is over okay in a
2:34:37second lunch was over we teleported
2:34:39right through that okay so they went to
2:34:42lunch and now they're back can you
2:34:44imagine going to lunch after that that
2:34:47must have been very difficult okay
2:34:50I'm sure that took everybody's appetite
2:34:51away seeing those pictures hearing the
2:34:54details I mean you know Chandler must
2:34:57have been so on edge getting to C's
2:34:59property knowing there's a bin in the
2:35:02back of the vehicle which I think it was
2:35:05his dad's vehicle that he was driving
2:35:06the Suburu Subaru okay and and with
2:35:09remains in it he must have been so on
2:35:12edge right and then afterwards when they
2:35:14said hm when he got in the pool he
2:35:16seemed different like focused more calm
2:35:20as well yeah he was probably feeling
2:35:22very relieved like my plan worked out it
2:35:24all worked out I just wonder if his plan
2:35:27was also to leave the bin out there was
2:35:29that the whole plan or what because we
2:35:32saw he cleaned up a lot that basement
2:35:35was cleaned a lot the chest freezer was
2:35:37cleaned as well
2:35:39so yeah he can clean I just think he
2:35:42would have probably thought at that
2:35:43point I can't wheel this bin back to the
2:35:46the car then they're really going to ask
2:35:48what happened you could only risk to to
2:35:50will it out into the woods and that's it
2:35:52he just left the bin right
2:35:54there
2:35:55[Music]
2:35:57okay and with the both case detectives
2:36:01if you return to the stands if you're
2:36:02still um able and willing to testify
2:36:05without a mask I won't engage in the the
2:36:07question with you thank
2:36:09you thank you thank
2:36:11you so detective Sims I assume your name
2:36:14is still spelled the same as yesterday
2:36:16yes it is okay um so we won't go through
2:36:19that again um in the course of this
2:36:22investigation were various warrants and
2:36:25subpoenas written yes they were um and
2:36:28what is the purpose of a warrant or a
2:36:31subpoena uh depending on the type um
2:36:33we're looking for records um from
2:36:35companies or businesses um for example
2:36:38cell phone companies um medical records
2:36:42uh things of that sort okay um basically
2:36:46telling them they have to turn over
2:36:48whatever you wrote this Suba for that's
2:36:51correct okay um and were such records
2:36:54written to uh a local healthare and
2:36:58hospitals in the area yes okay
2:37:01specifically for the defendants records
2:37:03that's correct
2:37:05okay I'm going to show
2:37:07you what has been marked as exhibit
2:37:14494 what is exhibit
2:37:17494 um it is a
2:37:20subpoena and return for the UW Health
2:37:24records of Chandler
2:37:26halderson and does that appear to be a
2:37:28true and accurate copy of that
2:37:30subpoena yes it does I at this time I
2:37:33would move exhibit 494 into evidence any
2:37:36objection none it is received and of
2:37:38course A lot of it is just legal mumbo
2:37:40jumbo but I have um noted with a pink
2:37:44tab there a paragraph It's on page 1347
2:37:48of discovery for councel would you just
2:37:51read to the jury this paragraph what
2:37:54specifically UW Health was court ordered
2:37:58to provide your office with sure uh
2:38:01certified copies of medical records
2:38:03pertaining to Chandler M halderson maale
2:38:06white date of birth 3:15 1998 more
2:38:11specifically a complete copy of the
2:38:12official medical records to include
2:38:15outpatient notes all discharge summaries
2:38:18all pathology report reports and all
2:38:20Clinic summaries x-ray EKG and lab
2:38:23reports collected and created by U
2:38:26health pertaining to the alderson's
2:38:29examination on or around June 17th
2:38:322021 and any follow-up treatment as a
2:38:35result of a head injury all right so you
2:38:38asked for the records for that day that
2:38:40he went into the ER but also for any
2:38:43followup appointments that's correct did
2:38:46you receive records from ww health for
2:38:49the day he was seen at the ER yes we did
2:38:52did you receive any records for any
2:38:54follow-up appointments uh we did not
2:38:57okay but they were court ordered to
2:38:59provide them had any follow-up
2:39:01appointments occurred that's
2:39:06correct I'm now going to show you what
2:39:08has been marked as exhibits 492 and
2:39:12493 what are those two exhibits what is
2:39:15492 first
2:39:20492 um is a document um from W Health
2:39:25including a certification of medical
2:39:27records from ciox
2:39:30health and it is the health records from
2:39:33UW in regards to Patient Chandler Merson
2:39:38for treatment he received um on June
2:39:4117th
2:39:4420121 and does that appear to be a true
2:39:46and accurate copy of what you received
2:39:48from w Health in response to your court
2:39:51order yes it does um and what is
2:39:54document
2:39:56493 uh 493 is a ciox health
2:40:00certification of medical records for
2:40:02Chandler halderson uh certifying the
2:40:05records that we received um ciox health
2:40:08is a records management company that
2:40:10manages the records for w so they read
2:40:13the they are the ones who received the
2:40:15subpoenas and they output or answer the
2:40:17subpoenas and send you the court ordered
2:40:20records that's correct at this time I
2:40:23would move exhibits 493 and 492 into
2:40:26evidence any objection no objection they
2:40:28are received and I'm of course not going
2:40:30to put these on the overhead because
2:40:31they're very small print but I am going
2:40:34to ask on page 1207 or page 10 of the
2:40:37medical records um I'm going to ask that
2:40:40you just read this paragraph for the
2:40:43jury and which exhibit I'm sorry that is
2:40:45on 492 thank you on arrival the p
2:40:49patient presented as above and was
2:40:51promptly evaluated by this provider vs
2:40:55Victor Sam were reviewed which were re
2:40:58reassuring exam notable for midline C2
2:41:02C3 tenderness to
2:41:04palpation patient was promptly provided
2:41:07a cervical collar obtain
2:41:10CT head and CT cervical spine both of
2:41:14which were negative given the patient
2:41:16remains in midline excuse me remains
2:41:18with mid line cervical spine tenderness
2:41:22palpation was placed in a PMT Paul Mary
2:41:26Tom collar patient likely suffered a
2:41:29mild concussion we did discuss signs or
2:41:32symptoms that would warrant immediate
2:41:34return to the emergency department for
2:41:36which patient verbalized understanding
2:41:39patient was provided concussion protocol
2:41:42for home in addition to prescription for
2:41:45Zofran for nausea patient and patient
2:41:49father were in agreement with treatment
2:41:51plan was subsequently discharged
2:41:57home stable condition with Neurosurgical
2:42:00followup in four to 6 weeks for repeat
2:42:03evaluation of his cervical spine I have
2:42:06no further questions for this witness at
2:42:07this time cross
2:42:09examination detective Sims as far as a
2:42:12subpoena goes that was directly to U
2:42:15Hospital
2:42:16correct um can I at the document again
2:42:19it was U health
2:42:22um there's just multiple um hospitals W
2:42:25Hospitals and Clinics and let me ask a
2:42:27better question sure no other subpoenas
2:42:29to any other hospitals in Madison were
2:42:31sent out correct that's correct thank
2:42:35you any redirect no detective thank you
2:42:38you may return to the to your seat good
2:42:42afternoon doctor good afternoon I take
2:42:44it from your here's the doctor yes let's
2:42:47hear about all these
2:42:49as Kathleen said career destroying
2:42:51injuries tell us doctor how bad was it
2:42:56title you work in healthcare if if your
2:42:58preference is and if you believe you
2:43:00should remain masked while testifying um
2:43:04I I have no problem with that if you
2:43:05believe you can safely and responsibly
2:43:07not wear your mask and testify I leave
2:43:09you that choice yes sir I'm comfortable
2:43:12removing it if that's the Court's
2:43:13preference that is that is the
2:43:14preference and that would be wonderful
2:43:16thank you I'm also going to ask that you
2:43:18move that mic a little closer yes
2:43:22ma'am good afternoon could you please
2:43:24State both your first and last name and
2:43:26spell them for the record absolutely uh
2:43:29my name is Michael m i c h a l ler l h m
2:43:34eii
2:43:36ER how are you employed uh I an
2:43:39Emergency Physician at the University of
2:43:41Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics okay were
2:43:45you employed as such in June of 2021 yes
2:43:48ma'am
2:43:50um and you're an ER physician so you
2:43:52have a MD uh yes ma'am that's correct
2:43:54okay um and I assume as an ER physician
2:43:58you see lots of
2:44:00patients uh yes that's correct and I
2:44:03assume you do not remember all the
2:44:04details of every visit unfortunately no
2:44:07okay so I believe it might even still be
2:44:10up there so I was waiting for all these
2:44:13comments roaring titty says roaring
2:44:16titty I like saying your your username
2:44:18he's handsome he he he right Jenna says
2:44:21he's cute I know how you Grizzlies get
2:44:24okay when there's a beautiful witness on
2:44:25the stand or handsome in this case okay
2:44:28now pay attention let's hear about these
2:44:30look at Chandler's face yeah he's about
2:44:32to call out another lie he just like
2:44:35what he's always got this like very
2:44:37obviously Blank Stare mhm yeah they're
2:44:40just about to call that one out doctor
2:44:42would it assists you to have a certified
2:44:44medical record of the visit with the
2:44:47patient we're going to discuss today in
2:44:48order order to testify yes thank you and
2:44:51I'm also going to show you what has been
2:44:52marked as exhibit
2:44:54491 how would you identify exhibit
2:44:57491 uh this looks like my CV my
2:45:00curriculum vay all right and for people
2:45:02that aren't in the science or Academia
2:45:05is that a fancy way to say resume yes
2:45:06ma'am it is okay and that includes all
2:45:09your training coring where you went to
2:45:12med school other trainings you have
2:45:14participated in that's correct move
2:45:17exhibit 491 and to evidence at this time
2:45:20any objection no objection it is
2:45:23received so on June 17th of 2021 did you
2:45:27in fact see a patient named Chandler
2:45:29halderson uh yes ma'am I did um do you
2:45:33have any independent before you look at
2:45:35the the certified medical record do you
2:45:37have any independent recollection of
2:45:39that
2:45:40visit um prior to being contacted by The
2:45:43subpoena I did not have any recollection
2:45:44of the visit no okay so feel free to um
2:45:48review and look at the certified medical
2:45:50record um I think it's helpful for the
2:45:52court just to know if you're looking at
2:45:54the record when you are
2:45:57sure so do you know about what time of
2:46:00day you saw Mr halderson on June 17th uh
2:46:04I believe it was around noon okay um and
2:46:08what symptoms did he report or where did
2:46:10he report
2:46:12to um I don't think I understand where
2:46:14did he report sure I'm sorry uh you work
2:46:17for the W system there's more than one W
2:46:19Hospital in right uh that day I was
2:46:22working out at the emergency department
2:46:24at the uh the W hospital at the American
2:46:27Center also known as Tac okay and that's
2:46:29way out on the east side east side
2:46:31correct um and did Mr halderson present
2:46:35there in the ER uh yes that's correct he
2:46:38self-presented okay and did had you met
2:46:40him before this day uh I don't believe
2:46:43so no okay what symptoms did he present
2:46:46with um I believe he was complaining of
2:46:49uh some pain to his head and his right
2:46:51ribs after a reported fall down some
2:46:54stairs so what did you a reported fall
2:46:57down the stairs does the doctor believe
2:46:59him what about his major head injury his
2:47:03legs not working he said that you said
2:47:06he needed surgery you do in your
2:47:09treatment um so uh in the emergency
2:47:12department we have an attending
2:47:14physician who's responsible for all
2:47:16patients that present to the Ed um we
2:47:18also have a team of physician assistants
2:47:20who we work with um at that time my
2:47:23physician assistant went and evaluated
2:47:25the patient first um he came up with a
2:47:28treatment plan we discussed it I
2:47:30evaluated the patient afterwards and
2:47:32agreed on the plan um and then got some
2:47:35Imaging okay what Imaging did you get we
2:47:38got we got a CT scan a CAT scan of his
2:47:41head and his sepy in his cervical spine
2:47:44and what if anything did that Imaging
2:47:46reveal uh those images were reported as
2:47:49being negative without
2:47:51abnormality did you perform any other
2:47:54tests um so he had a physical exam
2:47:57during which the PA and I both did uh an
2:48:00abbreviated physical exam looking for
2:48:02any signs of injury um we did discuss
2:48:06with the patient a potential X-ray of
2:48:08his ribs because he was having some
2:48:09right-sided chest tenderness um at that
2:48:12time the patient declined the additional
2:48:14Imaging and I think at that about that
2:48:16time we closed the encounter
2:48:21did you run any other sort of tests such
2:48:23as blood tests or anything like that uh
2:48:26I would need to refer back I don't
2:48:28recall yeah and I didn't mean that as a
2:48:31trick question in any way yes ma'am um
2:48:34so
2:48:37I this looks different than the one we
2:48:39usually have
2:48:41um typically uh we will get some
2:48:44screening blood work on patients as well
2:48:46I don't have that information in the
2:48:48front on my mind I'll have to review
2:48:49here
2:48:50quickly well actually let me just ask
2:48:53perhaps a more precise question when
2:48:55somebody comes
2:48:57in uh with and self-reports a fall maybe
2:49:00has some bruising um is there any test
2:49:03that you can do to determine yes they
2:49:06have a
2:49:07concussion uh no ma'am unfortunately a
2:49:10concussion is a clinical um diagnosis
2:49:14it's usually a rule out by testing for
2:49:16other conditions such as skull fractures
2:49:18bleeding around the brain um things of
2:49:20that nature and when we don't find those
2:49:23there's not really a good blood test or
2:49:25an imaging test that definitively
2:49:26diagnosis a
2:49:27concussion so if I showed up in your ER
2:49:30today and told you I fell my head hurts
2:49:35I hit my
2:49:36head would I be diagnosed with a
2:49:39concussion a head injury alone is
2:49:42typically not enough to get a diagnosis
2:49:44of concussion um usually there are some
2:49:46symptoms that go along with it um I have
2:49:49um photophobia so bright lights bother
2:49:52me loud noises bother me um looking at a
2:49:55computer screen or a television is
2:49:57difficult sometimes people will complain
2:49:59of difficulty concentrating nausea some
2:50:02of those symptoms so generally it is the
2:50:05combination of a head strike with some
2:50:07other clinical symptoms or complaints
2:50:09that will give a diagnosis of a
2:50:11concussion and those symptoms again are
2:50:13self-report symptoms that's correct
2:50:15they're not symptoms that you can
2:50:17actually look at cells or look at
2:50:19Imaging and say yep you have nausea
2:50:22that's correct and what was the all
2:50:25after you did the Imaging what was sort
2:50:26of the take-home plan or continued care
2:50:29plan for Mr
2:50:30halderson uh the take-home plan was
2:50:33conservative management um so we
2:50:35generally have patients with mild to
2:50:37moderate concussions managed with um
2:50:40Tylenol ibuprofen over the counter meds
2:50:43occasionally we'll give a prescription
2:50:45for an anti edic or an anti-nausea
2:50:48medications that they can drink plenty
2:50:50of fluids and stay well hydrated um I
2:50:53believe for this case uh the patient had
2:50:55some um residual neck pain uh so he was
2:50:59given a collar to go home with for
2:51:00support with instruction to followup
2:51:02with his primary care physician and with
2:51:05the spying team that was on call uh is
2:51:07it unusual for you to hand out a neck
2:51:09brace or a neck collar with somebody who
2:51:12says hey my neck is hurting uh no ma'am
2:51:14it is not unusual at all okay um and you
2:51:17said uh diagnosis of a mild or moderate
2:51:20concussion what in this case did you um
2:51:24diagnose Mr halderson with uh I believe
2:51:27he was diagnosed as having a mild
2:51:29concussion um and I believe in the notes
2:51:32it reported him as having just a a chi a
2:51:35close head injury so a non-specific
2:51:38diagnosis um did
2:51:41you in his presentation of uh to you did
2:51:45he State whether or not he had taken
2:51:47anything for the pain he was
2:51:50experiencing uh I do not recall that
2:51:52information off the top of my head I
2:51:54would have to review the notes do you
2:51:55mind reviewing the notes sure um so I do
2:51:59not have that information in my addendum
2:52:02at the bottom he may have reported that
2:52:03information to either the nurse or the
2:52:06PA who saw him um but I did not
2:52:08personally take any of that information
2:52:10okay thank you um and you said you had
2:52:13provided a net collar what instructions
2:52:15if any did you give him concerning that
2:52:17net collar
2:52:19uh yes ma'am so when we have someone
2:52:21with persistent pain but negative
2:52:23Imaging they go home with a what's
2:52:25called a PMT collar it's a soft collar
2:52:28that gives support To The Head and the
2:52:29neck um and in general they're
2:52:31instructed to follow up with their
2:52:33primary care physici and a spine
2:52:35physician if they're continuing to have
2:52:37pain or symptoms um generally in the
2:52:39four to six week period um I will say
2:52:42that many times patients have
2:52:45Improvement of their symptoms before so
2:52:47they'll self- remove their collar and
2:52:48they may or may not present later
2:52:50followup at any point did you give Mr
2:52:52halderson directions that he had to wear
2:52:54it for a certain amount of
2:52:55time uh I did not specifically give him
2:52:58that information no
2:53:02okay at any point in time during your
2:53:05visit with Mr
2:53:06halderson did you tell him he was going
2:53:09to experience
2:53:11paralysis uh no ma'am at any point
2:53:14during your time with Mr halderson did
2:53:17you tell him that he had a break
2:53:19bleed uh no ma'am at any point during
2:53:22your appointment with Mr halderson did
2:53:24you at any point tell him that he had a
2:53:26brain
2:53:27aneurysm uh no ma'am um at any point did
2:53:31you tell him that he had nerve
2:53:34damage I don't believe so no ma'am at
2:53:37any point did you tell him he had a
2:53:39spinal
2:53:40injury uh no I don't believe so at any
2:53:43point did you advise him that he should
2:53:46not fly in an airplane
2:53:49uh no ma'am at any point did you tell
2:53:52him that he should not
2:53:54drive uh I don't believe so no at any
2:53:58point did you ever say that he shouldn't
2:53:59drive long
2:54:01distances no ma'am at any point did you
2:54:04tell him that he had a hematoma in his
2:54:06brain I know ma'am I did not at any
2:54:09point did you tell him that he would
2:54:11have an inability to use his legs in a
2:54:14normal manner uh no ma'am at any point
2:54:18did you tell him because of his mild
2:54:20concussion that he was going to have to
2:54:22have a colostomy bag uh no ma'am and
2:54:25just to be clear that's a bag for poop
2:54:28that's
2:54:28correct at any point in time did you
2:54:32have to drill a hole into his head uh no
2:54:35ma'am at any point in time did you tell
2:54:37him that he was going to have to have
2:54:38surgery where a hole would be drilled in
2:54:39his head uh no
2:54:42ma'am I like this doctor's reaction he's
2:54:45starting to smile because it's so
2:54:47ridiculous um no ma'am let's just
2:54:50clarify that's a bag for poop why did
2:54:53that need to be clarified okay cool good
2:54:55to know good
2:54:57to no further questions cross
2:55:00examination thank you good afternoon
2:55:02doctor hello um I don't have a lapel mic
2:55:05so I'm just going to stay seated that's
2:55:07okay with you yes
2:55:09ma'am now you did diagnose Chandler
2:55:12halderson with a mild concussion right
2:55:15that's
2:55:16correct and you can diagnose someone
2:55:18with a concussion even though the
2:55:20Imaging didn't show any abnormalities
2:55:23correct that's
2:55:24correct when you diagnose someone with a
2:55:27concussion close in time to when uh the
2:55:32injury or the the hit to the brain
2:55:35happens um symptoms can either improve
2:55:38or get worse after that moment in time
2:55:41correct that's correct so when they
2:55:44leave the
2:55:45ER sometimes people get better sometimes
2:55:48times people experience ongoing or more
2:55:50symptoms correct yes ma'am and when Mr
2:55:53halderson was leaving the ER he was
2:55:55given a sheet of instructions of things
2:55:57to watch for correct I believe so
2:56:01yes on that sheet would have been things
2:56:04such as uh blurred vision
2:56:06correct I I believe so yes increasing um
2:56:10pain in the head increasing headaches
2:56:13correct yes uh weakness in his
2:56:16extremities correct
2:56:20yes and you wouldn't know whether these
2:56:23things actually happened or not unless
2:56:24the patient reports back to you correct
2:56:27that is correct but he would be told to
2:56:29be on alert for these things if they
2:56:32happened correct yes ma'am and to
2:56:35generally rest and avoid stimulation in
2:56:39order to improve his concussion symptoms
2:56:41correct that is
2:56:44correct things like uh avoid Bright
2:56:47Lights correct
2:56:49uh yes ma'am screens yes um video games
2:56:54things like that correct that's correct
2:56:58and really one of the treatments for a
2:57:00concussion is just to sit in a you know
2:57:03darkened room and really not do anything
2:57:05with your brain
2:57:07correct uh rest is generally one of the
2:57:09recommendations yes now don't do
2:57:12anything with your brain well he did
2:57:15that and also he didn't rest he murdered
2:57:17and remember his parents
2:57:19so yes just to clarify wow I know these
2:57:23are compartmentalized questions for this
2:57:25doctor as a result of his visit you did
2:57:28prescribe him some medication correct uh
2:57:31that is correct for nausea yes and what
2:57:34was that uh it's a medication called
2:57:37onanon it's also known as Zofran uh it's
2:57:41an anti-nausea
2:57:42medication he had reported uh feeling
2:57:46like he was going to throw up correct I
2:57:47believe so yes and that's why you would
2:57:49prescribe him that medication yes ma'am
2:57:52it's also um to help prevent um
2:57:55dehydration so sometimes people will get
2:57:57dehydrated their headache will get worse
2:57:59and so we like them to stay hydrated so
2:58:02sometimes it's a um a preventative
2:58:05measure as
2:58:06well and just to be clear when someone
2:58:09reports that they have a a headache
2:58:14um as Miss Raymond asked you there's no
2:58:18test flood test or something like that
2:58:20that can confirm what the person is
2:58:22telling you right uh I don't believe so
2:58:26no now when he presented in the ER that
2:58:29day um wanted to ask you what this
2:58:34means patient remains with midline
2:58:37cervical spine
2:58:38tenderness
2:58:40palpation what do those words
2:58:42mean um so as part of the physical exam
2:58:46when we are examining a patient we will
2:58:48actually press on the um spinus process
2:58:51over the middle of their neck um he had
2:58:54tenderness on presentation which was a
2:58:57big part of the reason why we got the CT
2:58:59scan to begin with um and on
2:59:01reassessment after the negative Imaging
2:59:03we reassess the patient he still had
2:59:06persistent pain in the midline there um
2:59:08which is not a direct indicator of an
2:59:10injury but it does say we should keep
2:59:12the collar on for uh
2:59:15safety and when he left with the collar
2:59:17that that day you testified that there
2:59:20was no set time he was supposed to wear
2:59:22the collar or you didn't give him a set
2:59:24number of days to wear the collar is
2:59:26that right I don't believe so no the
2:59:28instructions were to follow up with his
2:59:30primary care physician and with our
2:59:31spine doctor and that was in 4 to six
2:59:34weeks generally that's the time frame
2:59:37that they recommend um my I can't recall
2:59:40specifically for this case but I
2:59:42generally encourage patients to to call
2:59:45if they're continuing to have any
2:59:46symptoms after they go home that's it
2:59:48thank you redirect uh just a couple
2:59:51quick
2:59:52questions doctor with
2:59:54self-report um symptoms such as nausea
2:59:57or headache is the information you
2:59:59receive from the patient only as good as
3:00:02the accuracy or honesty of that
3:00:05information um I'm not sure that I
3:00:08totally follow the question sure if a
3:00:10patient lies to you and says my arm
3:00:13hurts or my head hurts is that
3:00:16information useful to you if it is in
3:00:18fact a
3:00:20lie um I tend to take my patients at
3:00:24their word um I think that if I get into
3:00:27trying to second guess them it gets to
3:00:29be my job gets too complicated um so
3:00:31when patients present symptoms I
3:00:33generally take them unless I have
3:00:35something to um prove or disprove I take
3:00:38them at their word sure um but my
3:00:42question is not how you interpret the
3:00:44information as far as scientifically or
3:00:47medically accurate is it only valuable
3:00:49in as much as as it is
3:00:51true uh yes I assume that it's true and
3:00:55that's how it's medically relevant okay
3:00:57thank you thank you may the doctor be
3:00:59excused and released yes thank you so
3:01:02much for your time sir you're excused
3:01:03from you um no we object he needs to
3:01:06stay for just a little bit longer
3:01:09subpoena and released from the same good
3:01:11rest of your thank you morning well good
3:01:13afternoon sorry U Miss melander first
3:01:16let me ask you because I was preoccupied
3:01:19and here we are the moment that those
3:01:22who have never seen this trial have been
3:01:24waiting for this is Catherine melander
3:01:28she was chander Hon's girlfriend at the
3:01:30time yeah there police interviews and
3:01:33everything we're going to have to go
3:01:34through at some point they're out there
3:01:36but we've never watched them together
3:01:37but sure like what a shock to her well
3:01:41like he did what but he but he invited
3:01:44me over and just realizing all that so
3:01:45now I think it must be very difficult to
3:01:48be here on the stand on this day I mean
3:01:50this was only six months after the crime
3:01:52it must be just imagine trying to
3:01:54process that like what your boyfriend
3:01:57did oh my goodness okay are we ready
3:01:59everyone here we go if you've already
3:02:00seen the trial before don't worry many
3:02:02of us have uh so have I but I'm so glad
3:02:05we can watch this together for the first
3:02:06time so here we go to watch cat
3:02:09melander's testimony didn't here did you
3:02:11verbally answer yes to the oath yes
3:02:14thank you secondly um are you in a
3:02:16position where you believe you can say L
3:02:18and responsibly testify without wearing
3:02:20a mask no you need to wear your mask in
3:02:23order to uh believe you can protect
3:02:26yourself from I mean from the virus and
3:02:29and safety concerns all right then sh
3:02:33the judge is like maybe you could remove
3:02:35your mind I won't force you to to not I
3:02:38won't force you to take off your mask if
3:02:39you if you believe that is true thank
3:02:41you all right you work in the healthcare
3:02:43field do you not I do okay okay could
3:02:46you please State and spell spell your
3:02:48name for us uh Katherine melander c a t
3:02:52h r y n melander m e l l e n d e r ask
3:02:57you to grab the base of the microphone
3:02:58and pull it really close because the
3:03:00fans are on that creates a level of
3:03:02noise your voice is on the softer side
3:03:04and you have a mask so okay being up
3:03:06really close to it we'll make sure we
3:03:08can all hear thank you go ready you go
3:03:10by cat correct correct can I call you
3:03:12cat today yes please okay um cat um how
3:03:16old are you I'm 21 years years of age
3:03:19and um do you live here in in the
3:03:21Madison area I do live in the Madison
3:03:23area okay and do you know someone named
3:03:25Chandler hollers I do how do you know
3:03:27Chandler we were in a relationship okay
3:03:30um at this point um something's going to
3:03:32happen the judge is going to ask
3:03:33everyone out here to lower their mask
3:03:35and I'm going to ask you if you see
3:03:36Chandler in the courtroom it's one of
3:03:38the strange things we're going to do so
3:03:39the judge will go don't say anything
3:03:40until everybody has remask if everyone
3:03:42can lower their masks for a count of
3:03:44three one everybody within the courtroom
3:03:47uh accept in the jury box 1 2 3 replace
3:03:50your masks is Chandler in the room here
3:03:52today yes can you tell me where he's
3:03:53sitting and describe what he's wearing
3:03:56it's over there with a blue tie and a
3:03:58blazer i' ask record to reflect the
3:04:00identification of the defendant it shall
3:04:01thank you uh when did you first uh begin
3:04:04your relationship with Chandler um in
3:04:07August
3:04:082019 um and how did you meet uh we met
3:04:12through a
3:04:13friend um what was Chandler kind of what
3:04:16was going on in his life when you first
3:04:17first met what was he doing with his
3:04:19life um he was attending college he was
3:04:23living at home and preparing to move
3:04:24into an
3:04:26apartment um dog sitting quite
3:04:30often and where were you in life what
3:04:32were you up to when you first met back
3:04:33in
3:04:342019 uh when I first met Chandler
3:04:37I was going to school as well um part of
3:04:41student Senate doing shows um in the
3:04:45theater Department
3:04:48what types of things did you and
3:04:50Chandler do in your relationship did you
3:04:52go on a lot of dates together uh yeah we
3:04:55would um grab dinners um have movie
3:04:59dates just sit at home and watch
3:05:01movies um go on walks quite often play
3:05:06with the dogs um that was a big thing we
3:05:08loved playing first be with the
3:05:10dogs um start shows together sure
3:05:16um around 2019 and 2020 and then um
3:05:21obviously um into this year a little bit
3:05:23or into last year 2021 um how would you
3:05:26and Chandler communicate um with each
3:05:28other just by calling each other or were
3:05:30there other things too um we would talk
3:05:33on Snapchat text FaceTime and call quite
3:05:36often okay um would you also um so it's
3:05:41text Snapchat call FaceTime mhm would
3:05:45sometimes you start communicating about
3:05:47a subject on one and then switch to
3:05:49another and then switch back yes um fair
3:05:52to say you communicated or you texted a
3:05:55lot with Chandler yes um
3:05:59and you've seen in this case probably at
3:06:02some point printouts of even just a
3:06:04couple of days of your text messages
3:06:05which are hundreds of pages long right
3:06:07yes
3:06:09okay did you have any sort of
3:06:11relationship with um Chandler's family
3:06:14yes um let's start um with his brother
3:06:17Mitchell um did you know Mitchell I did
3:06:19know Mitchell tell me about your
3:06:20relationship with Mitchell um I would
3:06:24hang out with him at the family events
3:06:26uh be it like a dinner or for the
3:06:29holidays um we had a game night at his
3:06:32home once with Caitlyn and chanler and
3:06:34myself um usually see him during family
3:06:39events um what about um let's start with
3:06:42Bart did you have a relationship or how
3:06:44how did you know Bart
3:06:45halderson I uh knew Mr ERS through
3:06:48Chandler
3:06:50um I would be at their home quite often
3:06:53and he would
3:06:58um he would uh show me fishing
3:07:03tips or if I was cooking uh him and Mrs
3:07:07hollers would be in the kitchen and we
3:07:09would have game nights quite
3:07:11often and we would also um play Mario
3:07:15Kart together a lot okay
3:07:21I have
3:07:32aief what about Christa could you tell
3:07:34me about your relationship with Christa
3:07:36holders Mrs holders and I we would text
3:07:40often
3:07:41about what we're doing in our lives and
3:07:44talk about the dogs and Chandler and
3:07:47like
3:07:50we would talk about recipes and food we
3:07:53want to try and if I was cooking them
3:07:56something from uh my culture she would
3:08:00always be excited and we talk about it
3:08:02and always talk about game nights and
3:08:05wanting to do a girlish trip to
3:08:07Disneyland
3:08:08together with her I and Caitlyn okay
3:08:13um you texted often with Miss yes I did
3:08:17um positive relationship a good
3:08:19relationship yeah did you like her I did
3:08:23like Miss holders a lot did you like Mr
3:08:25holders yes I did um were you over you
3:08:29were over at the halderson home quite a
3:08:31bit very often yes and that's uh over in
3:08:33Windsor Oak Spring Circle I'm GNA to
3:08:37leing I'm sorry that's fine I'll sure
3:08:41where questions we withdraw the question
3:08:44and I'll ask it again whereabouts did
3:08:46the halderson live they lived in Windsor
3:08:52um past
3:08:54[Music]
3:08:55um that big church I don't know the road
3:08:58of it but it was past the big church
3:09:01right by a
3:09:03pond um when you were over at the the
3:09:06house um did you mostly stick in one
3:09:08spot or did you kind of treat it like
3:09:10your own home go wherever you needed to
3:09:11go I would go wherever I needed to go
3:09:14within reason okay back in um
3:09:19June of this year just before maybe
3:09:22everything that we're going to talk
3:09:22about happen um were you over at the
3:09:24halderson home and had an occasion to
3:09:26maybe go in the basement yes um why did
3:09:28you go in the basement while you were
3:09:29over there I went into the basement to
3:09:32grab um ice cream and soda to make root
3:09:35beer floats with Mr and Mrs holders and
3:09:37Chandler and this is sometime in when is
3:09:39it June okay um and where we why are we
3:09:44going to the basement to grab those
3:09:45items were there where were they were in
3:09:47the basement they were in the basement
3:09:48in the freezer okay the halderson had a
3:09:51freezer in the
3:09:53basement there's leading questions going
3:09:56on uh I'll sustain go ahead and phrase
3:09:59carefully tell me about uh what freezers
3:10:01the halderson
3:10:03had they had um a chest freezer and then
3:10:07a tall one kind of like a fridge but it
3:10:10was just a freezer okay and did you have
3:10:13an occasion ever to go in the chest
3:10:14freezer yes uh and what types of things
3:10:17were in there uh mostly fish
3:10:20specifically
3:10:21salmon
3:10:23veggies
3:10:25um sometimes they'd keep ice bags in
3:10:27there was it full yes uh the other
3:10:31freezer did you have occasions to go in
3:10:32that on occasion uh just once okay and
3:10:36was it being used in full yes okay is
3:10:40there a screen on in front of you right
3:10:42now yes okay I'm going to show you
3:10:44exhibit 21's been received into evidence
3:10:46in this case
3:10:51I think we went too far
3:10:53judge there was a happy medium there in
3:10:55a
3:10:56second no that's what we
3:11:06discussed is the Elmo
3:11:14on there we go um there's a little bit
3:11:17of a glare on that but is that um looked
3:11:20to be the alderson's basement or
3:11:21something else yes it's the halderson
3:11:24basement and that chest freezer that's
3:11:27open right there is that the chest
3:11:28freezer that you had been in previously
3:11:30yes and was it full when you saw it in
3:11:32June yes um was it sitting like that
3:11:35open when you saw it last no
3:11:38okay was it in that General location
3:11:41when you saw it last
3:11:56yes in your relationship with Chandler
3:12:00um was there a lot of discussion about
3:12:02um
3:12:06money yes um was it important to you
3:12:10that whoever you were dating have a job
3:12:13or going to school or something yes can
3:12:16you tell me why that would be
3:12:21important
3:12:24um just think being
3:12:27self-sufficient okay it's either in
3:12:30school or working okay um as far as you
3:12:35knew in
3:12:372020 and this year even 2021 let's say
3:12:40the spring of last year um was Chandler
3:12:44going to school yes did he talk talk
3:12:47about that with you yes what did you
3:12:49know about where Chandler was going to
3:12:51school and what he was
3:12:53doing he was
3:12:56um taking classes
3:12:59online through MATC for
3:13:03WW and it was for an IT
3:13:06degree would Chandler talk a lot about
3:13:09school with
3:13:11you often um what kind of things would
3:13:14you talk about
3:13:17when we'd have tests
3:13:19or homework that we were
3:13:22doing going into in this year did did he
3:13:25ever show you any sort of like work he
3:13:27was doing for school any projects things
3:13:28like that um he showed me some coding he
3:13:31was doing once for a
3:13:36class um he's like look at this coding
3:13:39I'm doing he wasn't really he dropped
3:13:42out shame and he really strung her along
3:13:44too with all his lies I mean she
3:13:47completely bought that he got this job
3:13:49at SpaceX and that he got them an
3:13:51apartment and they're going to move
3:13:53there together this must have been
3:13:56really I mean it's an understatement
3:13:59shocking for her to find out what he
3:14:01really
3:14:03did you said he was going online did
3:14:06Chandler ever physically go there as far
3:14:07as you
3:14:09knew for a
3:14:13class I don't remember
3:14:18um this spring going into the summer
3:14:21prior to everything happening did you
3:14:23believe Chandler was going to
3:14:25MATC yes did you ever see um his grades
3:14:29did you ever share his grades with you
3:14:30or transcripts or anything like
3:14:33that no he didn't show
3:14:36me um do you know how close he was to
3:14:40graduating uh one class away I believed
3:14:49did you and Chandler ever talk about um
3:14:52him working with the police at all with
3:14:54scuba diving or anything like
3:15:00that with the DNR sure tell me about
3:15:04that
3:15:06um he told me he would scuba die for the
3:15:09DNR and
3:15:10then sometimes help out the police
3:15:12through the DNR did he say what he would
3:15:15do for them like specifically
3:15:18scuba
3:15:19diving look in the lakes for
3:15:23stuff was this like a a job or a
3:15:25volunteer thing what was your
3:15:27understanding from
3:15:28Chandler I believe it was a
3:15:31job and did he have this throughout the
3:15:34time you were
3:15:36dating during the
3:15:41summer were there ever times where
3:15:43Chandler would go to that job as far as
3:15:46you knew or need to schedule time to be
3:15:47there yes um how would that come up he
3:15:51would just tell me he had to be on call
3:15:54days and we couldn't hang out those days
3:15:57or he would only have select time to
3:16:00hang out or else he'd be on
3:16:03call so there'd be times you couldn't
3:16:06hang out because he would say he was on
3:16:07call mhm how often would that come up in
3:16:10your
3:16:11relationship I don't remember okay but
3:16:15it came up it did okay
3:16:17did you ever see Chandler with any sort
3:16:19of scuba diving equipment oxygen tanks
3:16:22those flippers that people put on
3:16:24anything like
3:16:26that
3:16:31no did you believe he worked at a this
3:16:34dive team job back at that time
3:16:39yes um at some point in the past year
3:16:43and a half or so did Chandler get a job
3:16:45uh with American family Insurance yes
3:16:49and um what did Chandler tell you about
3:16:51that or what did you know about what he
3:16:52was
3:16:54doing um that it was an internship to
3:16:59help graduate through school
3:17:02and he'd be doing um stuff with solar
3:17:06panels and laying up plans for companies
3:17:09going through American family and such
3:17:13okay so an internship was it eventually
3:17:16a job or something else a where he got
3:17:18paid a paid internship I believe
3:17:22okay did he ever show you any of his
3:17:24work that he was working
3:17:26on he showed me a plan on a whiteboard
3:17:30that he was drawing up when you say a
3:17:32whiteboard what do you mean by
3:17:34that like a whiteboard that you hang up
3:17:36in your home or see in school
3:17:40okay and what was on that whiteboard
3:17:42that he was showing you if you remember
3:17:45um a building thing and where they
3:17:48wanted to place the solar panels and how
3:17:52by highway so it would be a safety
3:17:55hazard for the direction they want to
3:17:56point it in because of the angle of the
3:17:59sun could be blinding the
3:18:02drivers okay did you seem excited about
3:18:05this project when he was talking to you
3:18:06about it yes
3:18:09okay um did Chandler have any issues
3:18:12with pay at American Family Insurance
3:18:14and getting his paychecks yes tell me
3:18:16what you know about that from
3:18:18Chandler
3:18:20um
3:18:22that uh there was something going on
3:18:25with who American family would go
3:18:28through for payment that it
3:18:31just the check went to the wrong address
3:18:34and then it had to be cancelled and then
3:18:37he tried setting up for direct deposit
3:18:39and something happened with that and
3:18:41then the amount that they had to pay him
3:18:44was too much so they didn't believe they
3:18:47some of that amount of money and
3:18:49then just wasn't getting to him um
3:18:53because of this issue or maybe others
3:18:55were there times in your relationship
3:18:56where it didn't seem like Chandler had a
3:18:58lot of
3:18:59money yes um um when you all went out to
3:19:04get food or something along those lines
3:19:06would it be more common for you to pay
3:19:08or for him to pay or or how would that
3:19:09work for me to pay okay
3:19:15um yeah
3:19:17sure one second I'll tell you before
3:19:20yeah
3:19:23um you might not have some specific
3:19:25dates and that's totally okay but do you
3:19:27know approximately kind of the time
3:19:30period Chandler was working at American
3:19:31Family
3:19:35Insurance
3:19:38believe January
3:19:42until spring okay
3:19:47um kind of the same questions before
3:19:49with MATC when I ask you about
3:19:51transcripts regarding American Family
3:19:53Insurance did you ever see any um
3:19:55documents pay stubs uh contracts HR
3:19:58stuff anything with like the logo of
3:20:00American family kind of around Chandler
3:20:02or in his bedroom or anything like that
3:20:04I did not and in that time period you
3:20:08were dating um 2020 and
3:20:112021 while he said he had this stuff did
3:20:13you believe he was working at American
3:20:14Family Insurance yes I did okay
3:20:18at some point going into 2021 so just
3:20:21last year before the summer did it
3:20:23appear that Chandler had gotten a new
3:20:24job or was in the process of getting a
3:20:25new job yes and um where was that job
3:20:31at the company or the location what was
3:20:34the company SpaceX okay um so what's
3:20:38going to happen now is the attorneys and
3:20:39I are going to talk to the judge for one
3:20:41second so some weird white noise is
3:20:42going to come on be a good second to
3:20:43take a drink of water if you want but
3:20:45it's going to be about one minute okay
3:20:47how did you first learn that Chandler
3:20:50was going to work at
3:20:53SpaceX he mentioned it while we
3:20:57were on a call okay um did you have an
3:21:03interview yes okay I want to show you
3:21:05what's been marked as this case in this
3:21:06case as
3:21:07exhibits
3:21:09506 um but I want you to look at that
3:21:12for a second and um just quickly you'll
3:21:15notice we've redacted some things we
3:21:17redacted you've seen this type of
3:21:18exhibit before correct correct and we've
3:21:21redacted your phone number out of this
3:21:22have we not yes okay um Chandler saved
3:21:25in your phone as as kind of a name what
3:21:28is that name hubby and that's just
3:21:30something you would call them yes okay
3:21:33um but are these messages with Chandler
3:21:35and you looks like back in May of this
3:21:37year yes okay and what is the first one
3:21:41that Chandler says I have a good feeling
3:21:44about space X okay I'll move 506 and
3:21:46evidence any objection you guys are like
3:21:49SpaceX yes he lied that he got a great
3:21:53job at
3:21:55SpaceX and that he was going to he
3:21:58really embellished how much he was going
3:22:00to get paid that he got an apartment for
3:22:02them they're going to move there they're
3:22:03going to have this great life like oh
3:22:06my subject to what was said on the
3:22:09record it is re come on that screen okay
3:22:11so we're going to talk about some of
3:22:12them um just real quick because it's the
3:22:15first one that we're going to do that
3:22:16looks like this
3:22:18um your phone was was taken by the
3:22:21police and downloaded in the course of
3:22:23this investigation correct correct
3:22:33okay so we're going to try to get the
3:22:35lighting just right and that might be
3:22:36the trick right there um so in the blue
3:22:39here that's Chandler correct correct I
3:22:41have a good feeling about SpaceX and if
3:22:43we're looking at it the date on these
3:22:46messages uh is down there it's also
3:22:49right there but this one I'll read out
3:22:51loud just cuz it's uh bit hard to see
3:22:55we're at the 23rd of May of
3:23:012020 you say I'm proud of
3:23:10you what does Chandler say there thanks
3:23:14I hope I get a job and you say um me too
3:23:19um in general were you hoping Chandler
3:23:22got this job yes why he seemed excited
3:23:27about it a lot of pay a lot of pay did
3:23:31Chandler ever tell you how much money
3:23:33he'd be making at
3:23:35SpaceX around 800,000 800,000 eight
3:23:39sorry I apologize 80,000 80,000 okay so
3:23:43after you say me too we're still on the
3:23:4523rd
3:23:47he says I'll be
3:23:54happy and you respond I'll be very happy
3:23:57for you
3:23:59too you get the money you want the job
3:24:02you want right you were happy for him
3:24:07[Music]
3:24:11correct you talked a little bit and
3:24:13we're going to flip through some of
3:24:14these that that maybe aren't super
3:24:15relevant as we talked you texted a lot
3:24:18um but you're talking about the location
3:24:20and the money and and Chandler says can
3:24:22you read that one for
3:24:24us but I'll be happy with
3:24:26money and you say maybe they'll transfer
3:24:29you in a couple years was there any
3:24:30discussion about that around that
3:24:33time yes um and what was that discussion
3:24:36about maybe transferring or where this
3:24:37job
3:24:39was the job was in Florida okay and that
3:24:43would take you to Florida as well
3:24:45correct okay was it your intention to
3:24:48move with
3:24:49Chandler
3:24:51yes and on May 24th he sends you this
3:24:56message what does it say I have a
3:24:59follow-up interview for Florida
3:25:07tomorrow and as that kind of approached
3:25:11um on the 25th now of May you're saying
3:25:15tell me kind of in an ex exaggerated
3:25:16fashion but just tell me what's going on
3:25:20yes and what does Chandler say shoot
3:25:23sorry I got the
3:25:25job and you say congrat can you believe
3:25:28that tell me what's going on he's like
3:25:30oh shoot sorry got the job I mean as if
3:25:35if you really got the job you wouldn't
3:25:37forget to tell your girlfriend oh shoot
3:25:41sorry I got the job and then she's like
3:25:45congratulations chman
3:25:57congratulations you have a discussion
3:25:59about the job in general and eventually
3:26:03Chandler the same day 25th what does he
3:26:06say to you I have training next week
3:26:09over the computer and I leave June 11th
3:26:12and start on June 14th okay
3:26:21you and Chandler discuss perhaps I think
3:26:24you said that you were going to move
3:26:25with them eventually right correct was
3:26:27it going to be right away or were you
3:26:28going to wait a couple weeks wait a
3:26:30couple weeks
3:26:32okay and what does Chandler text you on
3:26:35the
3:26:3625th I'll come back every other weekend
3:26:38hun and what else and I can send you
3:26:42money till your lease is up and you move
3:26:44in with me
3:26:50how is he going to send her money how is
3:26:52he getting this apartment in Florida
3:26:54unless it's premeditated murder I mean
3:26:56is that what's happening although I
3:26:58think the pressure started you know he
3:27:00started feeling pressure cuz like oh
3:27:02crap people are going to figure out my
3:27:03liars and his dad did you know he was
3:27:06about to confront him about that but I
3:27:08wonder if he was like how would he go
3:27:11through with his plan
3:27:16the text messages that day um end with
3:27:20Chandler sending you a couple messages
3:27:21can you read the first one if you're
3:27:23positive you want to be with me for the
3:27:25long run was that in relation to you
3:27:27moving with him yes and he says what
3:27:32last cuz if you're not then I don't
3:27:34think you should
3:27:39[Music]
3:27:50did the topic of you and Chandler moving
3:27:52to Florida
3:27:54um is that like something you talked
3:27:56about a lot
3:27:59yes um were you excited about that yes
3:28:02did you tell your family yes you tell
3:28:05your friends
3:28:09yes I'm going show you what's been
3:28:11marked in this
3:28:13case exhibit number 507
3:28:16can you tell me what that
3:28:18is a screenshot of the SpaceX location
3:28:21in Florida and was this taken off your
3:28:23phone yes why'd you take that
3:28:26screenshot I was curious about the
3:28:28location of the company okay what's
3:28:32exhibit number
3:28:34508 a screenshot from Zillow of homes in
3:28:38Titusville Florida okay and it's a
3:28:41screenshot but there's something else in
3:28:43that screenshot in the top right corner
3:28:44what is that ch
3:28:46um how does this happen this is on your
3:28:48phone you're taking a screenshot yes are
3:28:50you FaceTiming at this time yes and are
3:28:52you looking up what are you looking up
3:28:54there homes for sale in Titusville
3:28:57Florida yes I'm sure it's been marked as
3:28:59exhibit 9 what's
3:29:01that a pool and was this another one of
3:29:05the homes you were looking up yes when
3:29:08you took these screenshots when you were
3:29:09FaceTiming with your boyfriend at the
3:29:11time did you believe that you were
3:29:14possibly going to be moving Florida and
3:29:16buying maybe buying a home or renting an
3:29:18apartment things of that sort yes fair
3:29:20to say these homes you were looking up
3:29:21weren't cheap either no did you think
3:29:24you'd be having some money available to
3:29:25you yes all right I'll move 507 508 509
3:29:29in evidence any objection no they I
3:29:31received they may be published just
3:29:34briefly this is exhibit number 507 I
3:29:37just showed you this is what we were
3:29:38talking about we said that you you took
3:29:39a screenshot of just where SpaceX was
3:29:43yes okay did you know prior to Chandler
3:29:45talking about it that they had a
3:29:46location in Florida no
3:29:50okay exhibit
3:29:53number
3:29:55508 we're looking at a
3:29:58$699,000 home in Florida and you're kind
3:30:01of on the phone with Chandler and is
3:30:03this what a FaceTime looks like when
3:30:04you're kind of browsing other apps while
3:30:06you're on FaceTime yes and so that is
3:30:08that Chandler in the top right yes you
3:30:11were were you talking to him about this
3:30:13at the time yes okay i showing you
3:30:16exhibit 509 here we're looking at a pool
3:30:20of another home is that Chandler in the
3:30:22top right yes and same thing you were
3:30:25talking to him about moving to Florida
3:30:36yes what kind of conversations did you
3:30:38personally have not with other people
3:30:40said but what did what were you telling
3:30:41your family your mom your brother about
3:30:44the plan
3:30:49Chandler would move down to Florida and
3:30:50start
3:30:51working I would go um at the end of
3:30:55August after my lease
3:30:57ended and I celebrated my birthday in
3:31:01Madison and Titusville isn't too far
3:31:07from um where Disneyland is
3:31:11and I was looking at Pharmacy schools in
3:31:14Florida as well
3:31:17did you talk to your friends about this
3:31:18plan yes
3:31:21um was there any discussion of
3:31:23Transportation or cars or things like
3:31:25that once you got down to Florida yes
3:31:27tell me about
3:31:28that Chandler um had a car lined up for
3:31:31when he got down there already and I was
3:31:34going to drive my car
3:31:37down
3:31:39um did you ever invite your friends um
3:31:43that were close to you and say like hey
3:31:44you can come down and visit when were
3:31:46down there yes um what kind of things
3:31:48did you talk to him about
3:31:51doing going to Disneyland um Universal
3:31:56Studios going
3:31:59fishing I think we saw in one of those
3:32:01prior texts that the SpaceX job was
3:32:04supposed to begin mid June um was that
3:32:08your understanding of the
3:32:09timing yes around the time it was
3:32:12supposed to start did something happen
3:32:13that caused a delay yes yes what
3:32:18happened Mitch went to the hospital
3:32:21Chandler's brother mhm um and he he's
3:32:24testified and told everyone kind of
3:32:26about it but in general what was your
3:32:27understanding of what was going on
3:32:30um his sugar levels were very high and
3:32:34he had to be there for a couple days
3:32:37okay what did Chandler if did he tell
3:32:40you anything about why that whether that
3:32:41was going to delay SpaceX or what what
3:32:43the relationship between those two
3:32:45things are Mitchell illness in
3:32:48SpaceX he didn't want to leave while
3:32:51Mitch was
3:32:53Ill um Mitch was in the hospital for a
3:32:56couple days yes okay um at that point
3:33:01did chanandler tell you or did you know
3:33:03of any time he was supposed to now start
3:33:11SpaceX I don't remember okay was it
3:33:14delayed yes
3:33:16um
3:33:17after Mitchell's hospitalization did
3:33:20anything else happen that caused a delay
3:33:21in
3:33:23SpaceX I ended up going
3:33:26to the um urgent care as well and then
3:33:31Chandler fell okay Chandler was in the
3:33:34hospital yes okay um what did you know
3:33:37about Chandler
3:33:40falling he um was running and slipped uh
3:33:45down the stairs
3:33:47and then fell pretty hard and hit his
3:33:52head um did Chandler talk to you about
3:33:55his injury yes um what kind of symptoms
3:33:58was he reporting that he was feeling
3:34:00after that
3:34:02fall
3:34:04um tingles in his legs
3:34:08um stivity to
3:34:11light uh severe headaches
3:34:19weakness um was Chandler able to
3:34:23physically do normal things around that
3:34:26time no what do you mean by that he had
3:34:30a hard time lifting things and quite
3:34:33often would get
3:34:35laded could he carry heavy things from
3:34:38what you observed or
3:34:39knew no um could he drive long distances
3:34:43things of that sort
3:34:46no um was he able to
3:34:48travel no um why do you know that or why
3:34:51do you say that um because of the headit
3:34:55jury and wearing the neck brace okay let
3:34:59me show you a couple exhibits
3:35:02marked these questions must be really
3:35:04uncomfortable because obviously by now
3:35:06she would have figured out all of that
3:35:08was a lie you know but it's kind of
3:35:12almost almost present tense question
3:35:14like did you you know so you knew that
3:35:16he got the job or that he had the job at
3:35:18American Insurance you got to go all the
3:35:19way back there mentally and be like yep
3:35:22you got to relive that then well she's
3:35:23got to relive the moment where she's
3:35:25like come on what I'm so excited we're
3:35:26moving to Florida he's going to work at
3:35:28SpaceX and then all these delays shame
3:35:31just first it's his brother's fault you
3:35:34know brother's in the hospital that's
3:35:36the delay and then later it's like
3:35:38whoops Chan's got his own concussion he
3:35:42said so you know that caused him to lose
3:35:44the job
3:35:46just stringing poor uh cat along oh my
3:35:50welcome to everyone from recovery
3:35:52addict 511 tell me what 511
3:35:56is Chandler in the emergency room okay
3:36:00and uh kind of got his hat over his head
3:36:02there yes who sent you did you see this
3:36:04photo eventually yes how'd you get that
3:36:07photo
3:36:09um it was sent to me do you know who
3:36:11sent it to you
3:36:16I believe it was Chandler or his mother
3:36:18okay what's
3:36:22512 chanler with Mr hollers and Mitch
3:36:25during the Father's Day brunch okay he's
3:36:28wearing the collar there yes 513 um
3:36:32another photo of Chandler in the collar
3:36:34yes right move 5 11 12 and 13 and
3:36:38evidence any objection no objections it
3:36:40is they are received they may be
3:36:43published thank you judge just so we're
3:36:45all looking the same thing you said this
3:36:46is a photograph that was uh sent to you
3:36:49Chandler in the hospital
3:36:525'11 correct correct sorry we got to do
3:36:55it twice kind of that's how it works 512
3:36:58um photograph of that's Chandler on the
3:37:01left side correct correct and then the
3:37:04middle is that Mr halderson correct and
3:37:07on the right is that Mitchell correct
3:37:09and that's where is that photo taken do
3:37:11you know in the living room by by the
3:37:14kitchen okay
3:37:16in 513 another photograph of Chandler
3:37:19wearing that neck brace correct
3:37:26okay what were you aware of in terms of
3:37:29like what the prognosis was for his
3:37:31injuries like what was going to happen
3:37:33to him or what was going
3:37:35on he had a
3:37:37concussion um lights of like sensitivity
3:37:41and um tingling in his legs
3:37:47um was it going to get
3:37:57better I guess at this point I'm going
3:37:59to object I need you to use I withdraw
3:38:03the question the defensive J did
3:38:04Chandler tell you if he was going to get
3:38:06better or the symptoms were improving
3:38:07around that time
3:38:11no was there any discussion about how
3:38:13the concussion and the injury was going
3:38:15to
3:38:17SpaceX he wouldn't be able to travel
3:38:20down there tell me about anything you
3:38:22remember about that type of
3:38:28[Music]
3:38:30discussion can you be more specific
3:38:32please yeah what did Chandler
3:38:33specifically tell you about why he
3:38:35couldn't
3:38:36travel um because he was um wearing the
3:38:40neck brace and he had a concussion so he
3:38:43shouldn't be flying
3:38:47um same question as before about
3:38:49American family and MATC did you ever
3:38:52see anything around Chandler's room on
3:38:54his phone any documents records with the
3:38:57SpaceX or Tesla logo or anything like
3:39:00that no um talked a little bit about
3:39:04houses and things of that sort were you
3:39:06aware at any point if Chandler had
3:39:08rented an
3:39:09apartment yes and tell me about
3:39:13that um it was a two bedroom
3:39:18apartment and he put a down payment for
3:39:21it
3:39:23uh and there's a little dog park so I
3:39:25could bring my dog Chewbacca down
3:39:29okay how did you know about this
3:39:31apartment uh Chandler sent me a link
3:39:35okay um did he tell you whether he was
3:39:37just looking at her if he had actually
3:39:38rented it that he rented it did you
3:39:42yourself see a lease of any sort no did
3:39:45you ever sign a lease
3:39:50no is your only connection with this
3:39:52department is looking at the listing
3:39:54that was sent to you
3:40:05correct we're going to start talking
3:40:07about events starting on June 30th and
3:40:10kind of all the way through July 8th at
3:40:11this point um and I think I'm going to
3:40:13let some of your messages guide our our
3:40:15conversation so I'm going to be walking
3:40:17back and forth quite a bit um but to
3:40:20show you what's been marked in this case
3:40:22is exhibit number
3:40:2654 just briefly could you just page
3:40:28through that and tell us kind of what
3:40:30dates these text messages are from
3:40:46they're all on June 30th June 30th of
3:40:492021 right correct all right and these
3:40:52are the messages between you and
3:40:53Chandler correct I'll move 514 into
3:40:56evidence any
3:40:58objection I'll bring up the same
3:41:00objection from the side bar but
3:41:01otherwise no all right and based upon
3:41:03the same o this will be interesting June
3:41:0630th of 2021 he murdered his parents on
3:41:08July 1st of 2021 between 3: and 5:00
3:41:11p.m. his dad just after 3:00 p.m. and
3:41:14his mom they believe shortly after she
3:41:15got home uh so she got home just after
3:41:195: uhhuh so really they should say
3:41:21between 3:00 and 5:30 p.m. or 3: and 6
3:41:24p.m. something like that but what is he
3:41:26going to say on June 30th let's hear it
3:41:29to his girlfriend ruling they are
3:41:31received and they may be shown I'm going
3:41:33to start showing them and I'm going to
3:41:34ask for some context because we're
3:41:35picking up obviously in the middle of of
3:41:36thousands of pages of of messages maybe
3:41:39but the first message is um a message
3:41:41from you um to be honest it's getting to
3:41:44the point where where I want to text
3:41:45your mom directly what was this about on
3:41:47June 30th 3:18 in the
3:41:51afternoon about him uh being grounded
3:41:54and not being able to see me or hang
3:41:57out what was your understanding at that
3:41:59time of what was going on from Chandler
3:42:00what did he tell you he was he was
3:42:03grounded yes okay
3:42:06um were you wanting to see him yes and
3:42:10what did he tell you about whether he
3:42:11could see you or not
3:42:15he
3:42:17couldn't because of
3:42:19what because I wasn't allowed over okay
3:42:23uh you communicated with Christa a lot
3:42:25right yes um when you say that was
3:42:28Chandler telling you that or did you
3:42:30actually hear that from Christa or Bart
3:42:32from Chandler
3:42:34okay and you say it's getting to the
3:42:36point where I want I text your mom
3:42:38directly and Chandler says can you read
3:42:41that for me it's fine B that'll only
3:42:43piss them off more
3:42:46and what does he say this weekend will
3:42:48be great that weekend was the Fourth of
3:42:50July weekend coming up right
3:42:58correct you say now we're still June
3:43:0030th we're about 3:19 in the afternoon
3:43:02you say
3:43:04okay and he says what thanks
3:43:08though and then on June
3:43:1030th you send this message
3:43:13next what does that say say we're not
3:43:16going to the cabin right um so in the
3:43:20realm of messages where the cabin the
3:43:22first time the Jerry seen that how did
3:43:24this come up or what was going on where
3:43:25you sent this
3:43:29message I was under the impression that
3:43:31Mr and Mrs holders were going up to a
3:43:33cabin for the 4th of July
3:43:36weekend um was that conversations or
3:43:39like over the phone or in person you'd
3:43:41had with Chandler or was that over the
3:43:43phone okay
3:43:48and you ask we're not going to the cabin
3:43:50are
3:43:50we what does Chandler say
3:43:54no you say I can ask if we can go to the
3:43:57farm right correct and that ended up
3:44:00coming to fruition you did that yes
3:44:05okay can you read that last message you
3:44:08sent that way we can say my mom can care
3:44:11for you since they have a lot of stuff
3:44:13here that they use for Mike and papa
3:44:17um your mom and tress testified um who
3:44:21are Mike and papa in general and what
3:44:22did that mean that there was stuff there
3:44:24for them Mike is uh cr's brother and
3:44:28papa is her
3:44:29father uh papa is elderly he is over 90
3:44:34years of
3:44:35age and um Mike is wheelchair
3:44:39bound and needs help going to the
3:44:42restroom and overall my mom helps take
3:44:44care of that
3:44:47okay what kind of stuff were you talking
3:44:48about that there was stuff
3:44:52there
3:44:54Walkers
3:44:57um if you
3:44:58needed um one of
3:45:01those stools that you put over the
3:45:04toilet so an elderly person can sit down
3:45:07or they don't have to squat so low since
3:45:09it's hard for their
3:45:10knees um
3:45:16okay was it your impression that
3:45:18Chandler would be assisted by some of
3:45:20those
3:45:41things no why did you say that there was
3:45:44stuff there for
3:45:46them so we'd be able to hang out since
3:45:49his mom's was very concerned about um
3:45:52his injury
3:45:57okay the next day Thursday July 1
3:46:03um you work that
3:46:08day can you repeat the date sure
3:46:10Thursday July 1st so before the 4th of
3:46:12July weekend correct you have a a normal
3:46:15job normal type of hours right correct
3:46:18weekdays correct okay hopefully just
3:46:21weekdays right showing you what's been
3:46:24marked is exhibit number um 516 and I
3:46:27know it might be in a different form
3:46:29than usual but in general do you have an
3:46:30idea of what that
3:46:33is yes what is that Snapchat messages
3:46:37and who are they
3:46:39with Chandler and chanders um to the
3:46:43best you can I know these are people
3:46:45make up names but what was Chandler's
3:46:46Snapchat name chazel dazzle chazel
3:46:49dazzle and chazel Dazzle that's what he
3:46:52called himself on
3:46:55Snapchat that's why we say Chazzy boy
3:46:57sometimes Chandler holders oh my chazel
3:47:01Dazzle 23 years old on Snapchat chz
3:47:04desel there he was significant parts of
3:47:07this are redacted out um in the course
3:47:09of sending Snapchats sometimes you send
3:47:12just in general people are sending
3:47:13pictures back and forth and part of what
3:47:15we done in this we've done in this case
3:47:16is just redact any photographs that we
3:47:18really thought we could right corre kept
3:47:21one on though just to prove that's you
3:47:22right yes okay um is
3:47:265:16 um Snapchat messages between July
3:47:301st and July 7th between you and
3:47:33Chandler correct all right I'll move 516
3:47:36into evidence any objection same
3:47:38objection as a uh I'm going to take you
3:47:40guys with me I'm still here I'm still
3:47:42here okay I'm just taking myself off
3:47:43camera I'm going to quick feed the cats
3:47:45and stretch my legs I'll be right back
3:47:47messages same ruling that it is received
3:47:50may be
3:47:51published I need you to tell us about
3:47:53Snapchat I don't know what everyone's
3:47:55understanding is uh everyone's of
3:47:56different ages some people have a
3:47:57Snapchat some people don't um just in
3:48:00general what is Snapchat Snapchat is a
3:48:03social media app where you can send
3:48:05photos with titles or um you can send
3:48:09messages through the chat part of the
3:48:12app and what is one of the features of
3:48:14Snapchat chat that it's primarily known
3:48:16for that text messages maybe
3:48:20aren't they aren't generally saved they
3:48:23delete right correct okay um is there a
3:48:27way to manually save messages or photos
3:48:29on Snapchat yes and is it easy or is it
3:48:34hard I find it easy what do you
3:48:38do you hold down the text and you select
3:48:41save and if you save the message uh if
3:48:45you're communicating right now with
3:48:46Snapchat with one of your friends and
3:48:48they send you a snap if you click on it
3:48:50and look and do nothing that message
3:48:52will delete
3:48:54right sometimes okay but if you you
3:48:58could manually save it right by putting
3:49:00your finger down and saving it correct
3:49:02or if you change the settings to delete
3:49:04within 24 hours
3:49:07right sometimes when you snapped with
3:49:09Chandler one or both of you uh would
3:49:12save the messages correct and those
3:49:15messages are what we're looking at here
3:49:17right correct
3:49:22[Music]
3:49:23okay would you say Snapchat is your
3:49:26primary form of communication with
3:49:29Chandler one of them okay
3:49:33so I'm going to display 516 and we'll
3:49:37start going through some things here in
3:49:38a second but we talked about we left one
3:49:41photograph on just to prove uh that's
3:49:43you right correct
3:49:45okay and we'll redact the rest and when
3:49:47for obvious reasons we don't want
3:49:50everything coming out
3:49:53but on July
3:49:591st of 2021 at
3:50:03711 um you get a message right from
3:50:08Chandler correct what does it say how do
3:50:11you sleep and you say I slept good how
3:50:14did you sleep sleep and how does he
3:50:16respond I hardly slept
3:50:21okay he gives you kind of a emoji face
3:50:25you say I'm sorry B why can you read
3:50:29Chandler's message back to
3:50:30you after you say
3:50:33why I don't know stuff hasn't really
3:50:36been going well for me lately so I'm
3:50:38trying to plan for the next thing to
3:50:39[ __ ] me over okay
3:50:46after
3:50:47that Chandler sends another message and
3:50:51we'll try to get the right spot and can
3:50:54you read
3:50:56that yeah I just had a great future
3:50:59planned and it's falling apart okay and
3:51:02you say no it's not you're going to be
3:51:04okay you're reassuring them right
3:51:11correct you respond you're going to go
3:51:13to Florida
3:51:16you even said it's probably probs just
3:51:19the brace probably just the brace right
3:51:22correct he says
3:51:27thanks you say of
3:51:29course I love you and I'm here to keep
3:51:32your booty in check
3:51:34correct now we're up to 7:55 in the
3:51:37morning right after you say that M
3:51:40Chandler say back to
3:51:43you there's bit of a glare sure thank
3:51:47you will you leave me even if it doesn't
3:51:49work worded bad but you
3:51:53understand you respond no I
3:51:56wouldn't and he
3:51:59says I won't stop
3:52:03trying
3:52:07okay you say like Florida would be so
3:52:10dope and like nice but I'm not dating
3:52:11you for money I love you tons
3:52:16correct what does he say I love you a
3:52:19ton too by the way I'm not giving up I'm
3:52:21just
3:52:23worried you say don't
3:52:27worry love don't be worried love it'll
3:52:30work
3:52:31out correct and he says thank you
3:52:36be you say of
3:52:39course now we're up to 8:30 he says you
3:52:42help me a ton
3:52:45right correct okay
3:52:49um other than these messages the
3:52:51Snapchat morning or Snapchat messages
3:52:53that morning were you in Chandler
3:52:54communicating by phone or anything else
3:52:56around 7:30 into 8:30 in the morning on
3:52:58July 1st of 2021 that you remember I
3:53:01don't remember okay um now that's a a
3:53:04week day and I think you said you were
3:53:05working that day correct about what time
3:53:08do you go to work
3:53:158:30 since I was working
3:53:18close
3:53:19Okay um and if you had to work at 8:30
3:53:22is that what time you would leave or
3:53:23what time you'd get there I have to be
3:53:26clocked in by 8:30 okay um what time
3:53:31would you have to leave where you're
3:53:32staying then to get to uh work by
3:53:388:30
3:53:40around 8:00 8:10
3:53:46okay when you're at work um I think we
3:53:49all maybe send an occasional message or
3:53:50two but are you frequently on your phone
3:53:52a lot at work or only when you just have
3:53:54a
3:53:55second when I have a minute okay do you
3:53:58have a busy job I do
3:54:06okay at some point that day you and
3:54:08Chandler switch back to texting as well
3:54:10right correct okay I'm showing you what
3:54:12been marked in this case is exhibit
3:54:13number 5 15
3:54:17um just look at a message can you tell
3:54:19me what date these messages are July 1st
3:54:2220121 all right and this appear to be
3:54:25couple pages of me text messages between
3:54:27you two correct all right I'll move 515
3:54:30into evidence any objection other than
3:54:32the standing objection no they are
3:54:35received and they may be published
3:54:49all right maybe try one more light on
3:54:50Judge we'll see if we can't get
3:54:54this that that's worse than ever well
3:54:57there we go all right uh can you see
3:54:59that cat or no correct I can okay um I'm
3:55:04going to try on my end to fix things up
3:55:06a little bit um starts with just you
3:55:09talking and
3:55:11eventually there's a message from
3:55:13Chandler
3:55:15at on the 1st at 1:02 p.m. and I'll move
3:55:18it down so it's out of the light but can
3:55:20you tell me what that message says 1:02
3:55:23p.m. we're going to hear it now they
3:55:25believe that he murdered Bart halderson
3:55:28just after 300 p.m. so this like 2 hours
3:55:30before he murdered his father and then
3:55:34Christa when she got
3:55:36home sorry forgot to tell you but Mom
3:55:38did okay you hanging out with us all
3:55:40weekend sorry and I think I said
3:55:41Chandler I met you right did you send
3:55:44that message or to Chandler I did okay
3:55:47your mom okayed you guys hanging out
3:55:49correct was that at the farm and and
3:55:51things like that correct
3:55:55okay Chandler responds
3:56:00awesome
3:56:01and what do you say back to him yeah so
3:56:05convince your parents hard and that was
3:56:08at
3:56:11103 on the first what did you mean by
3:56:13that convince your parents
3:56:16hard I meant to convince his parents to
3:56:19let us hang out okay why would he need
3:56:22to convince his parents based on what
3:56:23you knew at the time what was going on
3:56:26um he wasn't able to hang out around
3:56:29that
3:56:30time okay and then at 103 just after
3:56:38that Chandler sends you a message what
3:56:40does that say I overheard that they
3:56:43might go to the cabin with their friends
3:56:45but
3:56:46IDK now we can't see that but damn
3:56:51before the murd I overheard that they
3:56:53might be going to the cabin this weekend
3:56:56but I don't
3:56:58know yeah cuz at that point Bart had
3:57:01said are you ready I'm ready where you
3:57:03are you know because he was like we're
3:57:04going to have a meeting with that
3:57:07college that Chandler was faking going
3:57:08to that whole time with all the fake
3:57:10emails there was one real email in there
3:57:12from Omar job and so Bart had called
3:57:16Omar and his last words that we recorded
3:57:18with that'll be it then because he tried
3:57:21to figure out if Chanda was really
3:57:22attending college and you know where is
3:57:24his uh certificates and everything and
3:57:27then he found out he wasn't even he
3:57:29wasn't going there he was like okay well
3:57:32we're going to have a meeting so that
3:57:33day at 300
3:57:35p.m. around the time bot was murdered
3:57:38they were supposed to be at that college
3:57:40to have a meeting so this is so Premed
3:57:44ated at this time saying I overheard
3:57:47they might be going to the cabin this
3:57:49weekend his story already started there
3:57:51you know 90 2 hours to 90 90 minutes to
3:57:542 hours before he murdered his
3:57:58dead so that was kind of following up on
3:58:01the possibility of the cabin from
3:58:03yesterday on the 30th there it's kind of
3:58:05more conclusive correct
3:58:12okay what's what time did you get off
3:58:14work what time you get off work
3:58:15generally or what do if you know what
3:58:17time did you get off that day
3:58:275:00 when you get home that day do you
3:58:29remember what you
3:58:36did I don't remember
3:58:40okay you and tanler FaceTime a lot yes
3:58:44kind of a weird question but I have to
3:58:45ask did you sometimes FaceTime when you
3:58:47guys were showering yes okay
3:58:51um sometimes you take screenshots of
3:58:54Chandler yes you took a lot of
3:58:57screenshots in your phone didn't you yes
3:58:59I'm showing you it's been marked in this
3:59:00cases 517 is that one of those
3:59:03screenshots yes did you take that that
3:59:06night sometime after you got home from
3:59:08work um while FaceTiming with a Chandler
3:59:11yes okay we'll move 517 into evidence
3:59:13any objection no objection it's not a
3:59:15new photograph to not Fort I'm sorry it
3:59:18it's it's above the the waist oh
3:59:20understood it is received it maybe and
3:59:23just briefly that's kind of the FaceTime
3:59:26setup but that's
3:59:28Chandler and the background does that
3:59:31appear to be the shower at the halderson
3:59:33home yes okay can't forget that picture
3:59:36huh they have a big shower in that house
3:59:41yes and it's Chandler looking into his
3:59:44phone and you sna the
3:59:45screenshot pardon you sna that
3:59:47screenshot yes
3:59:53okay did you have any plans to hang out
3:59:56with Chandler that night as far as you
3:59:58remember not that night okay but you
4:00:00were communicating a lot so that would
4:00:02be him in the shower after he murdered
4:00:04his parents because as after as she got
4:00:06home from work is what she was saying so
4:00:08he's they're FaceTiming he's in the show
4:00:10and him looking down like that at the
4:00:12camera m yeah he just murdered both both
4:00:14these
4:00:16parents like that picture is Haunting in
4:00:19hindsight right
4:00:26correct later that night at some point
4:00:29Jud if you could turn the lights on just
4:00:30briefly for the
4:00:34coolness here's some additional messages
4:00:37um around 8:30 at night Chandler sends
4:00:39you um um a couple of messages could you
4:00:43just there's one with an emoji but could
4:00:45you read out the two that have texts uh
4:00:47baby I need you baby I need you yes did
4:00:51you know what that was in reference
4:00:54to I don't recall okay um
4:00:59and later there's discussion of him
4:01:02looking at your Snapchat location and
4:01:04wondering where you
4:01:11were correct okay
4:01:14and I think I said 8 but it's a military
4:01:16time so that would be 6:30ish or so okay
4:01:20which exhibit were those in Council sure
4:01:22was referencing exhibit 5:116 thank you
4:01:26after so around 6:30 or so when Chandler
4:01:29sends you the message baby I need you um
4:01:32do you recall talking to him after that
4:01:34verbally on the phone
4:01:44[Music]
4:01:46I I don't
4:01:49recall now we talk I think I mentioned
4:01:52something about Snapchat locations does
4:01:54another feature of Snapchat have
4:01:56anything to do with your
4:01:59location can you repeat that yeah is
4:02:01there a location feature on Snapchat
4:02:03with your friends that you can look at
4:02:04their location correct yes can you tell
4:02:06us about that um you can select certain
4:02:09friends to view your location or anyone
4:02:12who is on your friends list can view
4:02:15it um in your and Chandler's
4:02:18relationship was that something you did
4:02:20with each other correct um and was it
4:02:24reciprocal both of you did that correct
4:02:27um when this was going on during your
4:02:30relationship was it your intention that
4:02:32anytime You' open SnapChat you in theory
4:02:34be able to see exactly where he was
4:02:36correct and him the same for you correct
4:02:39okay
4:02:44did were you aware at all of what
4:02:45Chandler's plans were the night of the
4:02:47first when you were either FaceTiming
4:02:49while he was in the shower or any
4:02:50conversation he talk it all about what
4:02:52he was doing that
4:02:55night thought he would be taking care of
4:02:58the dogs
4:02:59and was going to make
4:03:02dinner did did he mention or do you
4:03:04recall if he said anything about where
4:03:06his parents were on that day he said
4:03:09they were doing a grocery pickup okay
4:03:14may I have a break you may this is a
4:03:17good time to take a break I think we can
4:03:19we're approaching I try to do them every
4:03:2190 minutes and we're pretty close to
4:03:22that and sometimes the after lunch break
4:03:25uh can come a little bit earlier and be
4:03:27be wise so let's take 10 minutes uh both
4:03:29for the jury and for the witness and the
4:03:31parties um Randy all right for the jury
4:03:35continue with the examination please
4:03:38chanler stretching his neck there yeah
4:03:40yeah yeah let's take a break
4:03:41mhm yeah all right well I think that we
4:03:44left off uh we're still on Thursday July
4:03:481st going into the evening uh we looked
4:03:50at the the FaceTime Snapchat you took
4:03:53then um maybe some snaps that sent were
4:03:55sent to you baby I need you things of
4:03:57that sort right okay correct um and I I
4:04:01think my last question to you or in the
4:04:03last couple of questions was um did you
4:04:05know what Chandler was going to be doing
4:04:07that
4:04:08night I don't recall um but you weren't
4:04:11with him I was not with him um around
4:04:15that time um a couple things were going
4:04:18on I guess according to your testimony
4:04:19so far Chandler was was grounded in some
4:04:22respect correct did you have any
4:04:25knowledge from Chandler about how long
4:04:27he was grounded for or the duration of
4:04:29that no just that we weren't allowed to
4:04:32hang out okay so the weekend and the
4:04:35parents being gone was going to change
4:04:37that yes these physical symptoms that we
4:04:41talked about with Chandler um and the
4:04:44concussion um I think you'd mentioned
4:04:46maybe kind of having some leg issues and
4:04:49couldn't lift things things of that sort
4:04:51correct were those all going on on that
4:04:53date as far as you knew correct
4:04:56okay I'm going to show you what's been
4:04:57marked in this case is exhibit
4:05:01number
4:05:07518
4:05:11519 520
4:05:15I'll direct your attention to the top
4:05:16right of
4:05:17that
4:05:21521
4:05:24522
4:05:27523 and
4:05:29524
4:05:31um in general are these photos of
4:05:34chamber yes um and what action is he
4:05:38performing in these
4:05:39photos carrying large bags of ice
4:05:45and to your knowledge based on all of
4:05:48your conversations and observations of
4:05:49Chandler um on July 1st of
4:05:532021 um was this activity the carrying
4:05:57of ice was that inconsistent with with
4:05:59what you knew as physical limitations to
4:06:01be correct there's two bags right yes
4:06:05and at one point they're both even in
4:06:06one hand right yes okay I'm going to set
4:06:09these exhibits aside for now we're not
4:06:11going to receive them into evidence just
4:06:12yet
4:06:19so if those photographs were taken the
4:06:21night of July 1st that would be
4:06:23surprising to you
4:06:26yes going into the next day the day
4:06:29before the the weekend I guess so now
4:06:31we're into um July 2nd which is a Friday
4:06:35um did you work as normal that day yes
4:06:38um and kind of as as before um maybe
4:06:42messaging with throughout the day yes
4:06:45okay
4:06:47um what were your general plans that
4:06:50Friday do you
4:06:53recall um to stop at Target stop at my
4:06:58apartment stop at my mom's home and then
4:07:00go to Chandler's okay and what were you
4:07:02and Chandler going to do um hang out
4:07:06okay have a
4:07:08sleepover um were you excited about this
4:07:11yes how long it it been at that time
4:07:13that Chandler had been in this being
4:07:14kind of grounded state where you hadn't
4:07:16seen him a
4:07:19lot about two weeks
4:07:24okay as you left work that day um did
4:07:28you have to go to Target to pick some
4:07:30stuff up yes um what were you picking up
4:07:33in general
4:07:43maybe I'll ask a better question is it
4:07:45groceries yes okay I'm show you it's
4:07:47been marked as exhibit 525 what is
4:07:50that pork chops oat milk cheese sure is
4:07:54this from uh the hildale target yes um
4:07:58do you do the pickup set Target or do
4:08:00you go in and and Shop I do the pickups
4:08:04okay so like a lot of people during
4:08:05covid you've done the the pickup thing
4:08:07where you order ahead correct okay I'll
4:08:10move 525 in evidence any objection no it
4:08:14is received it may be published not
4:08:16crazy exciting for everyone but there
4:08:18it's the hildale targets picked up at
4:08:20529 um hildale here in Madison kind of
4:08:23down University Avenue right correct all
4:08:25right got a couple things some pork
4:08:28chops some oat milk some cheese normal
4:08:32stuff right correct but but you didn't
4:08:34stop there you went to another Target
4:08:35didn't you yes uh how does that work
4:08:38that you end up at two Targets in the
4:08:39same
4:08:40day if something isn't available at one
4:08:42target I will order it at another and
4:08:44then go pick it up from there okay so
4:08:46you went to multiple targets correct and
4:08:48so there we see Madison East Target at
4:08:51637 right correct you got a watermelon
4:08:55yep
4:08:57awesome were you taking these things
4:08:59over to the harderson
4:09:01house some of them yes and when you pick
4:09:05things up at Target um you've done this
4:09:07a lot I would imagine very often um do
4:09:11they put any sort of stickers or
4:09:12markings on the bag to indicate this is
4:09:14for you yes um what in general just
4:09:17describe what goes on those bags it is a
4:09:20barcode for them to scan after they
4:09:22received my order and it has my first
4:09:24initial and last name okay I'm going to
4:09:28why the asking that because there was a
4:09:30Target bag remember that they found
4:09:32outside of cr's property you know near
4:09:35the the bins
4:09:37there um like the trash bins yeah that
4:09:41was that was the target bag with her
4:09:44name still with the receipts and
4:09:45everything from the pickup attached to
4:09:48it but inside the bag were a lot of
4:09:51bloody Rags so remember Chandler taken a
4:09:54whole bunch of stuff over to ch's
4:09:56property especially on July 5th of 2021
4:09:59he murdered his parents on July 1st and
4:10:03so included in the stuff that he took
4:10:05over it was a Target bag yes the one
4:10:09that uh cat had picked up from taret
4:10:11right with groceries he used that bag
4:10:14put bloody rags in left it in the front
4:10:15of the property he also uh put his you
4:10:19know all the tools and things that he
4:10:20used to dismember his parents in an old
4:10:23like oil drum there as well and of
4:10:25course also the bin and his father's
4:10:27torso so I mean that was also so
4:10:33reckless some people speculate was he
4:10:35trying to frame cat or what you know you
4:10:38just never know what he was trying to do
4:10:40um by just using that bag with her name
4:10:43on it and everything tell you to Mark in
4:10:45this case is exhibit number
4:10:48526 maybe some more messages um but take
4:10:50a look at that do that appear to be text
4:10:52messages between you and Chandler there
4:10:54that day on the 2nd uh July 2nd correct
4:10:57starting in the
4:10:59morning yes okay I'll move 526 in
4:11:02evidence subject to the standing
4:11:04objection it is
4:11:07received and so in fact kind of first
4:11:10thing maybe you say him that day is you
4:11:11got to go to both Target for your
4:11:13groceries yep that's
4:11:169:23 then you're going to take some of
4:11:18them to your mom's yes tell me just real
4:11:21quick and we're not going to talk about
4:11:22addresses but General living situation
4:11:24at the time back in July of of last year
4:11:27um did you live with your mom no did you
4:11:31have an apartment yes and would you
4:11:33sometimes stay at your apartment yes
4:11:36sometimes at your mom's mhm
4:11:40okay Chandler says okay at
4:11:459:23 and then on July 2nd at 9: in the
4:11:48morning after you talk about Target can
4:11:50you read that message from Chandler to
4:11:52you don't rush I have tons of chores
4:11:55they are having me
4:11:58do you say
4:12:01okay and then you talk about what you're
4:12:02having for dinner maybe Burgers maybe
4:12:05chili yes
4:12:08okay he says oh my goodness this is now
4:12:11July 2nd remember he murdered his par
4:12:13on July 1st between 3: and 6:00 p.m.
4:12:17okay and
4:12:18then that night you see the fireplace
4:12:22going and then on the second in the
4:12:25morning he's like don't rush they have
4:12:27me doing a bunch of
4:12:29chores they he's deceased parents like
4:12:32in hindsight it's so scary he's like
4:12:34don't rush hey I got to I got to do a
4:12:35lot of chores lot of cleaning up to do
4:12:48talk more about what you're going to
4:12:49have for dinner he says I don't know
4:12:50what would you
4:12:51like
4:12:54um and you say depends on how long we
4:12:56see each other talking about in general
4:12:58what you're going to do and what you're
4:12:59going to eat you read what Chandler sent
4:13:01you on the 2nd of July at just before
4:13:0510: in the morning at
4:13:069:58 we could do dinner tonight and you
4:13:09can come over in the morning again and
4:13:10stay till Sunday night okay um did that
4:13:14message strike you as odd of coming over
4:13:17leaving and coming
4:13:21back
4:13:23yes yeah he couldn't risk it like you
4:13:25can come over for dinner but then you go
4:13:29come back in the morning
4:13:34okay
4:13:37what because I was already going to be
4:13:39there and I thought our plan was for the
4:13:40whole weekend okay so he
4:13:45says did you could come over for dinner
4:13:48and then the in between what's not
4:13:50written but your impression was you'd
4:13:52leave and then come back the next
4:13:54day can you say that a little louder
4:13:56please sure was it your impression from
4:13:58this message that Chandler was telling
4:14:00you that you would leave that night and
4:14:02come back the next morning correct okay
4:14:05so he says
4:14:07that and then he he says like dinner
4:14:12plus the sex to you right yeah
4:14:16okay and you ask him why leave and come
4:14:20back if I'm just going to
4:14:24say and can you read Chandler's
4:14:28response so I can get some chores
4:14:32done did you know what chores he was
4:14:35talking about at this time
4:14:45I don't
4:15:03recall let me show you Stefan that's so
4:15:06crazy stepan says just imagine he's
4:15:08texting that with his dead parents in
4:15:10the basement
4:15:13and anticipating well actually that he
4:15:16was already
4:15:17busy you know dismembering them and all
4:15:20of that so he's like yeah you can't stay
4:15:22over on Saturday night because I just I
4:15:24got to do more chores you can come for
4:15:27dinner go back home and you come back on
4:15:29Sunday morning she's like why chores
4:15:33which really was cleaning up a crime
4:15:35scene another
4:15:38exhibit marked 527 in this case
4:15:44just in general do those appear to be
4:15:45more text messages between the two of
4:15:47you on July
4:15:492nd yes I'll move 527 into
4:15:52evidence any objection no objection they
4:15:56are received they may be
4:15:59published considerable discussion about
4:16:02what you're going to eat yes
4:16:04toppings you're going to check some
4:16:07buns there's talk of all the burger
4:16:10ingredients you're talking about food
4:16:11right correct
4:16:16[Music]
4:16:18at
4:16:2012:14 I
4:16:21mean remind me to check the Buns though
4:16:24I don't think they're talking about food
4:16:26at that point anymore no I don't think
4:16:27so sir but okay Chandler send you this
4:16:29message what does that
4:16:32say we set for this we just need ice um
4:16:36do you know what you needed ice
4:16:40for Chandler likes ice in his drinks or
4:16:43sometimes
4:16:44we put it in a pool for the
4:16:47dogs did you buy ice and take it to the
4:17:07house I don't remember at the moment do
4:17:09you remember if that day when you went
4:17:11over you put ice in a pool for the dogs
4:17:13or anything like
4:17:14that
4:17:16no and just after that Chandler sends
4:17:20you another message can you read that
4:17:23and now hydrogen peroxide because I
4:17:25stepped on
4:17:26glass is that the first you had heard
4:17:28about any sort of
4:17:30injury
4:17:32yes now after this message was sent did
4:17:35did you are we looking at the whole
4:17:37communication or was there like a phone
4:17:38call or anything like that or is this
4:17:40all you knew
4:17:46I don't
4:17:56remember you respond more talk about
4:17:59groceries I'll bring spicy cheese and
4:18:00pickled
4:18:01jalapenos yes okay
4:18:06and again and I apologize no one likes
4:18:09to see their messages probably on a
4:18:10giant screen but just in general you say
4:18:12n Jesus you're kind of just making a
4:18:14joke that you'll bring Jesus with you
4:18:17yep okay um Chandler responds at 12:16
4:18:22yes
4:18:23please but then quickly follows up can
4:18:26you read that last message but for real
4:18:29if your mom has an extra bottle that
4:18:31would be great it a Swiffer Wet jet
4:18:34extra bottle and were you was your
4:18:36belief that he's referring to hydrogen
4:18:37peroxide correct okay yeah he's got to
4:18:40do those chores he's like hey bring
4:18:43dinner and hydrogen peroxide and a
4:18:47Swiffer okay because I hurt my
4:18:52toe you respond almost immediately we
4:18:55have both he says thanks and be the end
4:19:00of exhibit
4:19:02527 um had Chandler ever asked you to
4:19:05bring hydrogen peroxide over before as
4:19:07far as you remember not that I remember
4:19:15did you in fact bring him hydrogen
4:19:17peroxide yes um where'd you get it from
4:19:21my mom's house took her bottle yes um
4:19:25and uh what about a Swiffer mop from my
4:19:28mom's house you took that to Chandler's
4:19:30yes PR sure it's been marked in this
4:19:32case it's exhibit number
4:19:34528 what is that my mom's home that's
4:19:39your mom's yes and is that the Swiffer
4:19:41yes is that the one you took chanders
4:19:43yes all right I'll move 528 evidence any
4:19:46objection no objection it is received it
4:19:49may be published not anything
4:19:52spectacular but police eventually came
4:19:55over and asked where the Swiffer was and
4:19:57that's where it was and they took a
4:19:57picture right yep okay the bottle of
4:20:01hydrogen peroxide and the Swiffer go
4:20:03with you as you're kind of making your
4:20:05way from Target to Target to your moms
4:20:06and then the chamers that night right
4:20:08correct okay
4:20:13when you get over
4:20:14to um Chandler's house do you take the
4:20:17bags of groceries inside or do they go
4:20:19inside at some point yes and the
4:20:21hydrogen peroxide yes and the Swiffer
4:20:24yes um when you first go in the house
4:20:27that day um did you notice anything
4:20:32off there was a smoky smell
4:20:37okay did Chandler tell you more about
4:20:40did he explain why there was a smoky
4:20:41smell
4:20:43because he was um playing catch with
4:20:45Rizzo in the house and the glass
4:20:48shattered in the
4:20:50fireplace and so the smell got into the
4:20:53home Rizzo is a dog right correct the
4:20:56Border coli how did okay but why why was
4:20:59he making why was the fireplace going in
4:21:02July did Chandler say the glass broke
4:21:04with the dog he was throwing the ball in
4:21:07the house okay um did you look into that
4:21:10any further did you go over to that
4:21:11fireplace and poke around
4:21:13no was there in fact a glass panel
4:21:15broken on
4:21:16it
4:21:21yes you stayed the night there that that
4:21:23night right correct where did you all
4:21:26sleep on the couches pushed together and
4:21:30where were those in the
4:21:32house in the lower living room by the
4:21:35fireplace around this time Chandler had
4:21:38a bedroom right yes had a bed yes did he
4:21:42explain to you while you were sleeping
4:21:43in a kind of like a fort living
4:21:46room to be with the dogs and watch TV on
4:21:49the bigger screen had you ever done that
4:21:51before in staying at Chandler's house no
4:21:55um damn so that lower level not the
4:21:57basement the lower level Lounge area
4:22:00where he made the couch Fort yes at 23
4:22:02years old he did that okay made a couch
4:22:04Fort he invited his girlfriend over and
4:22:06you know they're going to hang out and
4:22:07watch movies and things
4:22:09so it's right there by the fireplace
4:22:13that is just like using her you know so
4:22:16that if anyone ask questions he can use
4:22:19the whole the dog broke the the glass
4:22:21panel thing and then also yeah Smoky
4:22:24smell if that wasn't gone by the time
4:22:26the police would be there if in his mind
4:22:28he's probably thinking if the police
4:22:30ever asked questions well he had his
4:22:31girlfriend over they had a romantic
4:22:34night so just thinking about how he used
4:22:38people it's very
4:22:41scary at the time did it strike you as
4:22:44odd no okay that room you slept in in
4:22:49kind of the couch Fort pushed together
4:22:51the jury seen it by the way they seen a
4:22:53photographs and a video um that was in
4:22:55the same room as the fireplace that had
4:22:56the broken panel right yes it was near
4:22:59the bathroom as well right objection was
4:23:02it near the
4:23:03questions you may answer that question
4:23:06the objection the question was rephrased
4:23:08in light of the
4:23:10objection can you repeat it please what
4:23:12was it near the bathroom where you were
4:23:13sleeping yes
4:23:17okay that
4:23:19[Music]
4:23:23night do you recall anything unique or
4:23:25special about sleeping or it was it kind
4:23:27of a normal night other than the
4:23:32floor the girls the dogs Rizzo and Izzy
4:23:36were R up because of the fireworks
4:23:45is there a TV in that room yes were you
4:23:47watching TV as you went to sleep yes do
4:23:50you have do you know whether Chandler
4:23:53slept at all that night or do you not
4:23:57know I don't know
4:24:06okay while you were with Chandler that
4:24:08night did he say anything about where
4:24:09his parents were just hold on hold on
4:24:11damn fought right by that fireplace and
4:24:14the poor dogs were riled up from the
4:24:16fireworks yes but also what Chandler did
4:24:19in the home
4:24:20right they would have been a little bit
4:24:23anxious from the fireworks but those
4:24:26poor dogs were in the home that whole
4:24:29time when chand's murdering his parents
4:24:31and doing chores AKA dismembering his
4:24:34parents and trying to burn their remains
4:24:36in the
4:24:37fireplace that is so scary those poor
4:24:40dogs as well
4:24:43up north at their
4:24:47cabin had you ever been to the cabin
4:24:49before
4:24:53no what did you know about the
4:24:56cabin Mrs alderson's father built it um
4:25:00there's a Skool on the
4:25:02outside it's by a
4:25:05lake um and they'd go up there often
4:25:08whether to change the window panes or do
4:25:11work on on
4:25:14it um now you stayed there that night
4:25:18stayed in the the couch Fort thing in
4:25:20the fireplace room um the next day did
4:25:23you um stay there or did you leave I
4:25:26left um early very early okay um camera
4:25:32showed you leaving about 6:55 would that
4:25:34be about right yes okay
4:25:38um and that day um
4:25:44you and Chandler continued texting a
4:25:46little bit right yes
4:26:01okay and I apologize I just found one
4:26:04more set of messages I wanted to talk
4:26:06about from the night before just before
4:26:07you got to the house and you were doing
4:26:10the target pickups exhibit 529 is had a
4:26:12series of messages kind of after you got
4:26:14off
4:26:17work yes all right I'll move 529 into
4:26:19evidence any um objection other than the
4:26:22standing objection no they are received
4:26:25my apologies for for just going
4:26:27backwards just a second but before you
4:26:28got to chanders the night before uh with
4:26:31the
4:26:33groceries 5:20 you tell them you're
4:26:35going to keep your clothes in your
4:26:37car and
4:26:39Chandler again says something about
4:26:42peroxide can you read that
4:26:44message okay I do kind of need the
4:26:46swifter and peroxide and stuff okay so
4:26:49that's the third time that day he had
4:26:50texted you about peroxide to bring it
4:26:53right
4:27:03yes so the next day you wake up
4:27:06early and you leave before 7
4:27:10and think you said you communication
4:27:12with Chandler all day I'll show you
4:27:14exhibit number
4:27:16531 is that a series of messages ending
4:27:19on the last one on the second and then
4:27:20starting again on the
4:27:24third yes okay I'm showing you it's Mark
4:27:27this 530 um just in general what is that
4:27:31photograph Chandler walking
4:27:34into Fleet Farm you know that
4:27:38location yes okay I'll move 531 and 53
4:27:42in evidence any objection it's like
4:27:45chanler went to Fleet Farm to buy the
4:27:47tarp and you know a few other things but
4:27:49no didn't want to buy the hydron
4:27:51peroxide you know he knows about those
4:27:53Walmart lists huh does he watch any True
4:27:56Crime he's like o I can't buy that let
4:27:58me ask my girlfriend to bring that you
4:28:00bring the cleaning supplies I'm just
4:28:01going to go buy a tarp mm other than the
4:28:04standing objection um can we approach
4:28:06real quick
4:28:07sure it was a Saturday now we're into
4:28:10July 3rd
4:28:12my plans for the day yeah what was your
4:28:14general General
4:28:15plans
4:28:18um go to my mom's hang out with the dogs
4:28:21uh Chewbacca and
4:28:23muffin um see my brother and have
4:28:27Chandler come over
4:28:29later and that night what were you going
4:28:31to
4:28:32do see the fireworks with my brother
4:28:42that day when you left were you aware of
4:28:44what Chandler's plans were to do chores
4:28:48um he had mentioned chores a couple
4:28:50times what what was your understanding
4:28:52of chores did he tell
4:28:54you I don't
4:28:58remember going to show
4:29:00you actually I already did 531s received
4:29:03in evidence at this
4:29:06point yes okay you're texting Chandler
4:29:09in the morning um
4:29:13first one 7:32 you say breakfast burrito
4:29:17what was this in reference to uh what we
4:29:19were going to eat when he came over
4:29:21later okay something you you're going to
4:29:23make or something like that yes
4:29:26okay can you read his message for
4:29:29us sounds good I'm doing [ __ ] kind of
4:29:32slowly to be honest I'm kind of sore
4:29:35okay it's at 7:46
4:29:42you say I could have helped you this
4:29:44morning yes what was that in reference
4:29:46to doing his chores okay did he ask you
4:29:50to help him
4:29:52no and um why did you send that message
4:29:55that you would have helped
4:29:58him since I thought um he was having a
4:30:02hard time with his legs and the injury I
4:30:06could have helped him get it done easier
4:30:08and it would have been as hard for him
4:30:12response uh 7:47 can you read his
4:30:15response yeah I know I'll be right back
4:30:18going to the
4:30:21dump you read your response to that at
4:30:267:48 B did you Lo the card by yourself
4:30:28you can barely walk I should have at
4:30:30least helped you with
4:30:32that Chandler tell you what he was
4:30:34taking to the
4:30:38dump I don't remember okay
4:30:42at some point he texts you though at
4:30:457:49 what does he say never mind it's
4:30:50closed and you reference it's the
4:30:52holiday weekend correct
4:31:12at some point um there's a series of
4:31:15messages from you and and then this one
4:31:17comes at uh 8:38 what do you say there
4:31:21hey did you pass out that's a question
4:31:24mark why would you send a message like
4:31:26that or why did you send a message like
4:31:28that I was worried because of the head
4:31:32in jury if he's overexerting himself he
4:31:34might push himself too hard and pass out
4:31:36okay and you had sent him a series of
4:31:40messages that he hadn't responded
4:31:44to correct
4:31:55correct
4:31:57now by the way if you're watching live
4:31:59with me it's December 13th of uh
4:32:032024 and damn there's there's about
4:32:065,100 people here thank you so much all
4:32:08for being here we'll be here tomorrow
4:32:10too so if you don't have plans for the
4:32:1231st we'll be here and we'll be on the
4:32:131st whether you're tired or not come and
4:32:16tune in and watch with us cuz it's a
4:32:1810day trial so thanks all for being here
4:32:21please like and share so others can also
4:32:22find
4:32:24us that
4:32:26morning when you
4:32:29left the house
4:32:32early you you you've already testified
4:32:34that he was going to do chores and then
4:32:36there was some text about the dump um
4:32:38did Mr halderson say he was going
4:32:39anywhere else that you knew of that
4:32:40morning
4:32:46not at that time did he say anything to
4:32:49you uh about going to Fleet Farm that
4:32:52kind of farm supply store up near
4:32:54Windsor that morning not that I recall
4:32:58um did you know he was going there
4:33:02no I'll move to display 530 you
4:33:10may Zach Chandler walking in the Fleet
4:33:12Farm
4:33:14yes and if that was a screenshot of a
4:33:17video taken that morning just after you
4:33:20left um you don't know anything about
4:33:22why you'd be there right no okay
4:33:45at some point that
4:33:46day after you left um did you notice
4:33:50that Chandler was in a did you look at a
4:33:52Snapchat map to look at where he was yes
4:33:56and did you become worried or concerned
4:33:58in some way yes showing it's been marked
4:34:00as exhibit number
4:34:02532 what is
4:34:04that a screenshot of Chandler by the
4:34:07Wisconsin River okay and how's he
4:34:09labeled what's his name there hubby and
4:34:11what time is
4:34:13that 8:58 okay I think previously I said
4:34:16the second I meant the the third we're
4:34:18we're now in the Saturday but was this
4:34:20taken on Saturday morning yes okay why
4:34:23did you take this screenshot of
4:34:24Chandler's
4:34:28location I didn't know why he was there
4:34:30and so I was curious did you know where
4:34:32this location
4:34:34was
4:34:35yes and how did you know where this
4:34:37location was I've been there before with
4:34:40Chandler
4:34:42tell us about
4:34:43it
4:34:45um it's a little spot where we can park
4:34:47our Park our car and walk down to the
4:34:51Wisconsin River for
4:34:53swimming how many times do you think
4:34:55you've been
4:35:03there two or three
4:35:08times no move to publish 5:32 you
4:35:14so this is important that he went on
4:35:17they said on Saturday morning which
4:35:18would be July 3rd based on cat's
4:35:21Snapchat she could see that he was out
4:35:24near the Wisconsin River an area where
4:35:26he liked to go swimming and where they'd
4:35:27been swimming
4:35:28before thinking like what is he doing
4:35:31there well what he was doing there was
4:35:34um disposing of his mother's legs that's
4:35:37all they found out there was his
4:35:39mother's legs and it's is based on this
4:35:42SnapChat if they didn't have if she
4:35:44didn't take this screenshot because she
4:35:46thought it was a bit weird where he was
4:35:49they wouldn't have no they wouldn't have
4:35:51known to check there so she helped the
4:35:53investigation a lot to find at least
4:35:55some of Christa but that is very sad
4:35:58they haven't found ever the rest of
4:36:01Christa was it
4:36:03received okay is this that screenshot
4:36:07yes
4:36:10and that's the location right
4:36:18yes what did you do um when you when you
4:36:22saw
4:36:23that pardon yeah what did you do when
4:36:27you saw that location um did you you
4:36:29took a screenshot did you do anything
4:36:31else with that
4:36:32information I asked him what he was
4:36:34doing there
4:36:36okay and what did he
4:36:40respond he was going to pick up CBD and
4:36:44he was passing through
4:36:46there um he's passing
4:36:50through was he Meandering who sounds
4:36:53like Stefan Stones there if you don't
4:36:54know who Stefan Stones is you might want
4:36:56to check out my madelin sto case
4:36:58playlist start there because oh my so oh
4:37:03he's going to pick up some CBD oil or
4:37:05CBD and okay just passing by sh this guy
4:37:09can lie just like that um did you did
4:37:11you try to call him yes okay did were
4:37:14you able to talk to
4:37:15him yes okay do you recall anything else
4:37:19from that conversation about what he
4:37:20said or why he was where he
4:37:23was um he was picking up CBD for the
4:37:27pain
4:37:28um he don't want to tell me that he was
4:37:31picking up CBD because he was scared I
4:37:33was going to be disappointed in him
4:37:46and around that time that you took that
4:37:49screenshot was that when all of these
4:37:50messages were being sent that we looked
4:37:52at in this exhibit where no one was
4:37:54responding to
4:37:57you ending with hey did you pass
4:38:10out I was before I took the screenshot
4:38:13right same same morning though same
4:38:15morning yes were you having trouble
4:38:18communicating with Chandler that morning
4:38:20between 8 and 9 essentially yes
4:38:32okay prior to well I said a different
4:38:35way when was the last time you were at
4:38:37that location that out by the Wisconsin
4:38:39River with Chandler approximately
4:38:49that summer with um his friend Smith is
4:38:52that Andrew Smith I don't know his first
4:38:55name he always just went by Smith okay
4:38:58um how did what was your understanding
4:38:59of how Chandler knew this Smith guy uh
4:39:02they were video game
4:39:07Buddies the video game buddy is the one
4:39:09who gifted Chanda holda with the SKS
4:39:12rifle because they played first person
4:39:14shooter games a lot online together so
4:39:16when they met up in the summer you know
4:39:19it sounds like they went swimming there
4:39:21yeah that's the friend and we will see
4:39:23him on the stand at some point as well I
4:39:25don't think that's today um the rest of
4:39:28that day um July 3rd I think you had
4:39:31mentioned that there was some plans to
4:39:33meet up later fireworks something like
4:39:35that yes um tell me about that you went
4:39:37to some fireworks yes I went to see
4:39:40fireworks with my brother and friend of
4:39:41his did Chandler go with you no did you
4:39:44see Chandler again that
4:39:48day yes he stopped by to eat and we
4:39:52watched some TV together and then he
4:39:55left before my brother came home okay
4:39:57was that your house or your mom's house
4:39:59my mom's home okay um how was he acting
4:40:02that
4:40:06day
4:40:08tired
4:40:10um EX
4:40:13usted did you ask him about that being
4:40:27tired I don't remember
4:40:31okay that night after Chandler left her
4:40:33house and you went to the fireworks did
4:40:35you see each other again that night no I
4:40:38stayed at my mom's home and Chandler was
4:40:41not with you no did you know what his
4:40:44plans were did he tell you what he was
4:40:45going to do that
4:40:46night take care of the dogs because they
4:40:49get riled up with fireworks
4:40:54and do more
4:40:57chores this night or any of the nights
4:41:00we're talking about in question from
4:41:02that whole kind of week period from the
4:41:0430th till um the 8th of July but
4:41:09specifically this night do you know of
4:41:11any reason or did Chandler mention
4:41:12anything to you about a reason to go up
4:41:15near the Wisconsin River at night near
4:41:17Portage no um
4:41:21and was there ever in in your mind did
4:41:24you ever know of any plan for Chandler
4:41:26late at night 10 or even later to be up
4:41:29in that area
4:41:33no next day the 4th of July um you slept
4:41:37at your mom's Chandler slept at his
4:41:38house 4th of July what's the general
4:41:40plan that day for
4:41:42you
4:41:44um to grab breakfast with my brother's
4:41:48friend
4:41:50um have Chandler come over so we could
4:41:53all go to the farm do some shopping with
4:41:57my brother and his friend and then that
4:42:00night go back to
4:42:02Chandler's okay there was a plan to go
4:42:05to the farm yes um who all went to the
4:42:09farm that day for the 4th of July
4:42:13uh Chandler myself my brother and his
4:42:16friend all went but my mother Crest and
4:42:19Mike and papa were there as
4:42:21well when you got to the farm um did you
4:42:24were you with Chandler most of the time
4:42:26yes um did you walk around the property
4:42:29at all yes but not very far since he
4:42:33couldn't
4:42:34walk what kind of things did you talk
4:42:36about while you and Chandler were
4:42:37walking whatever distance you did around
4:42:39the property
4:42:42um about how far back the property goes
4:42:46which I talk about often with
4:42:48people
4:42:50um the wild
4:42:55flowers when you say how far back the
4:42:57property goes what do you mean by that
4:43:01um whenever I bring people there I
4:43:03generally point out where our property
4:43:06line
4:43:08ends to your knowledge had Chandler ever
4:43:10been there alone
4:43:14not before
4:43:16then and had he been there often with
4:43:18you um prior to this
4:43:24yes that night the 4th of July um you're
4:43:29at the farm what type of things do you
4:43:30do in general at the farm that night um
4:43:34we walk to the chicken Coupe to see the
4:43:37chickens um we
4:43:41ate with my
4:43:42family we did a little walk up to um the
4:43:47pool and then we later swam in the
4:43:50pool did Chandler get in the pool
4:43:54yes and um how late would you if you had
4:43:58to guess how late were you at the the
4:44:00farm that
4:44:01night I don't recall the
4:44:05time did you leave at some point and go
4:44:07somewhere else yes um where'd you go um
4:44:12I um drove my brother's friend back to
4:44:15our home with
4:44:16Chandler um and uh by home I mean my
4:44:21mom's home um and he left and I picked
4:44:26up my clothes okay and um where was
4:44:30where did you sleep that
4:44:34night is this Sunday the 4th sure this
4:44:37is the 4th of July yep Sunday I slept at
4:44:39Jam's home that night okay so you say
4:44:42you picked up your clothes what do you
4:44:43mean by that I started a load of laundry
4:44:46at my mom's home and it was left in the
4:44:48wash and I brought it to chanders to dry
4:44:50it in his
4:44:52dryer and in Chandler's home uh where's
4:44:55the laundry at the laundry room is right
4:44:58next to his room which is on the upper
4:45:00story where his parents room and the
4:45:02guest uh room
4:45:04is did you and Chandler do anything else
4:45:06that night once you got back over to the
4:45:07halderson
4:45:09place we put my clothes in the dryer and
4:45:11then went to his mom's cooworker
4:45:14home Dan what' you do there uh lit off
4:45:19some
4:45:22fireworks anything unique happened
4:45:25lighting off fireworks or is that just a
4:45:26normal
4:45:28thing normal for the fourth
4:45:32um Chandler burn himself at
4:45:36all not that I remember do you remember
4:45:39at any point Chandler burning himself
4:45:40the entire weekend or week you were with
4:45:43him he said when he was making burgers
4:45:46for me he burned it on the grill did you
4:45:48see that or is that what he just said
4:45:51pardon did you see that happen or just
4:45:53know what he said that's what he
4:45:56said oh we know he wouldn't have burned
4:45:58himself Making burgers on the grill more
4:46:02like there at the fireplace mhm which I
4:46:06hope you guys are following by now I
4:46:08don't have to keep repeating the
4:46:09timeline right burned himself on the
4:46:15fireplace that night um did you sleep in
4:46:18the couch for it again or some somewhere
4:46:19else on the bed in his room okay why was
4:46:23there any discussion with Chandler about
4:46:25why now it's okay to sleep in the bed
4:46:26versus on the couch Fort the couch was
4:46:28bothering my back okay um that night um
4:46:34was it a peaceful night sleep and both
4:46:36in the bed or or was it Restless a
4:46:38little bit it was Restless tell me about
4:46:41that
4:46:42um the dogs were freaking out with the
4:46:45fireworks at one point Izzy the older
4:46:48dog who's around 15 fell down the
4:46:50stairs
4:46:52um and it was hard to keep them calm
4:46:55with all the fireworks going off what
4:46:57did Chandler do when the dog fell down
4:46:59the stairs uh when she fell down the
4:47:02stairs he laid down with her and was
4:47:05making sure she was okay and petting her
4:47:08okay um were you asleep at that time in
4:47:10in his room no I wasn't asleep okay um
4:47:15were you and Chandler about how long was
4:47:17Chandler away from you that night while
4:47:18you guys were sleeping well where you
4:47:20were in his room excuse
4:47:22me can you say that a little louder Yeah
4:47:24you mentioned that Chandler went
4:47:26downstairs uh with the dog about how
4:47:29long of a period was he away from you
4:47:31dealing with
4:47:32that I don't know
4:47:39okay what were your plans the next
4:47:42day to go to work back to Monday so now
4:47:46it's a weekday right yes okay
4:47:50um so you woke up and
4:47:52you left for work early I would imagine
4:47:55yes
4:48:01okay going to show you an
4:48:03exhibit marked in this case is
4:48:08533 this appear to be the text messages
4:48:10some of them between you and Chandler
4:48:12that day Monday July
4:48:175th yes okay I'll move 533 into
4:48:21evidence any objection other than the
4:48:23standing objection they are received
4:48:25they may be
4:48:30published um I'm going to go to the
4:48:32second page um in general you're texting
4:48:35about work life your work frustrations
4:48:38maybe yes okay
4:48:41and at that point as far as you knew um
4:48:44were you going to be at this job that
4:48:46you were at um long
4:48:48term I was under the impression I would
4:48:51leave in August and where were you going
4:48:53to go down to Florida okay
4:48:571130 on the 5th what does Chandler text
4:49:00you don't piss them off till we know for
4:49:03sure we are
4:49:06moving and you respond I
4:49:08won't correct
4:49:16he says
4:49:18okay you say something else you say
4:49:20Greyhound isn't too expensive for a trip
4:49:22to Titusville you say that at 11:46 on
4:49:25the 5ifth what is that
4:49:27about um since Chandler expressed he
4:49:31couldn't fly down to Titusville we were
4:49:34looking at alternatives for him to go
4:49:36and I looked at gr Hound prices okay you
4:49:40say we were looking at Alternatives who
4:49:42was who was more so looking at
4:49:43Alternatives you or him me you
4:49:48yes you say Greyhound isn't too
4:49:51expensive no pressure just saying
4:49:56correct you read what shammer
4:49:59says Nope 870 for a straight
4:50:03shot to
4:50:05Orlando you respond what all this
4:50:09occurring just before the noon hour on
4:50:11Monday then Chandler says Uber is 200 to
4:50:15Titusville meaning the Greyhound plus
4:50:17the Uber
4:50:21um and you say it was 240 to go straight
4:50:23to Titusville what are you looking at
4:50:24when you're doing this um I was looking
4:50:27at the Greyhound
4:50:30website so you thought it'd be about 240
4:50:33bucks what Chandler text
4:50:35you so like a grand to get there with
4:50:38not much of my stuff
4:50:43you respond WTF where am I or he
4:50:46responds what WTF where am I
4:50:48looking And you say you're very off
4:50:52essentially is what that message means
4:50:53right yes
4:50:57okay okay ass this
4:51:06response around this time you were
4:51:09looking up how Chandler could get to
4:51:11Florida right yes show exhibit number
4:51:13534 in this case what is that it's a
4:51:17screenshot of the Greyhound website of
4:51:19me looking up a trip to Titusville for
4:51:21Madison and you took the screenshot yes
4:51:24did you send this to Chandler yes okay
4:51:26and that was in the middle of those text
4:51:27messages right yes move 534 in
4:51:31evidence any objection can we approach
4:51:35sure
4:51:42sis don't like that the white noise
4:51:45sound there oh my goodness it can be so
4:51:46loud we have just under an hour about 55
4:51:50minutes left of the trial footage for
4:51:52today in case you are
4:52:00wondering
4:52:01okay show exhibit
4:52:03number
4:52:05pressure
4:52:07wait and you say it was 24 I went too
4:52:09far back am I looking yes your way off
4:52:14you're on a break there you go but we're
4:52:16in the afternoon and you text me you
4:52:18read that last
4:52:20one text me when you get to your
4:52:22appointment and we're about 1:30 aren't
4:52:24we
4:52:28yes Chandler says yes
4:52:33[Music]
4:52:37dear then series of messages starting
4:52:41at 1:40 uh you say mhm
4:52:46essentially 1:40 again I love you it's
4:52:50going to be
4:52:54okay can you read what Chandler
4:52:57says either way you and me are going to
4:53:00be
4:53:02happy you say very
4:53:04true and then at 2:00 2:01 exactly uh
4:53:08Chandler says what made it a bit ago and
4:53:11checked in what was your understanding
4:53:13of where he had gone to um the location
4:53:17that I had screenshotted for his
4:53:19appointment and why again did you take
4:53:21the screenshot for Chandler's
4:53:22appointment um because I was trying to
4:53:25leave work early to be able to take him
4:53:27myself okay but you you didn't take him
4:53:30that day did you
4:53:32no so I'm showing I'll move to publish
4:53:35535 if I haven't you may
4:53:39okay you look looked up W Health on
4:53:41Science Drive correct how did you get
4:53:44this location or how did you know this
4:53:45was the location you'd be going
4:53:47to chanler told me it was on Science
4:53:54[Applause]
4:53:56Drive that point after he says he made
4:53:59it checked in uh at just after two what
4:54:01does he say be right
4:54:03back you say you got
4:54:07this yeah
4:54:17you ask him about what you're doing
4:54:19later 219 but then Chandler sends you a
4:54:21message what does that
4:54:25say just need you to know cuz I have
4:54:27horrible reception
4:54:30okay then it was sent again does that
4:54:33look
4:54:35right yes okay and just read that again
4:54:37if you could I just need you to know cuz
4:54:39I have horrible
4:54:50reception your understanding at that
4:54:52time is that he was at the W Health
4:54:54Hospital on Science Drive or the clinic
4:54:57correct you respond
4:55:00okay um then what do you say
4:55:04there do they not I meant to say do they
4:55:07not have Wi-Fi okay
4:55:11what do you say after that we can snap
4:55:13if that's easier why would that be
4:55:16easier because um they generally have
4:55:19Wi-Fi at all W health clinics and so if
4:55:22he doesn't have reception on his phone
4:55:23we could still snap with the
4:55:26Wi-Fi now we're talking about text
4:55:29you're texting and now you're texting
4:55:30about snapping but in the realm of this
4:55:33conversation a couple questions when
4:55:35you're texting someone um just on the
4:55:37normal app Apple iPhone and you're
4:55:39texting someone
4:55:41absent something crazy you're not seeing
4:55:43their location at least in your
4:55:45experience right on the Apple location
4:55:48in these text messages this isn't how
4:55:49you looked at where Chandler's location
4:55:51is right it was Snapchat correct okay so
4:55:55if someone in your experience wasn't on
4:55:59Snapchat or able to use Snapchat because
4:56:01they didn't have Wi-Fi or a signal would
4:56:03you be able to tell where their location
4:56:04is
4:56:08no can you turn off on Snapchat the
4:56:13ability of someone to see your location
4:56:19yes at 2:23 after arriving at the doctor
4:56:22what does Chandler say to you no
4:56:24connection to even load
4:56:27Snapchat and no
4:56:31Wi-Fi but I can still get your IM
4:56:33messages
4:56:40no connection to even load
4:56:42Snapchat and no
4:56:49Wi-fi that make sense to
4:56:53you the texts or that he'd be able to
4:56:56get messages but wasn't getting Wi-Fi or
4:56:58didn't have any service for
4:57:00Snapchat
4:57:02no generally in your relationship with
4:57:05Chandler or anyone else that you've been
4:57:07involved with or any of your Snapchat
4:57:09friends that you follow their location
4:57:11um are you generally able to see their
4:57:12location when they're in normal cities
4:57:14like Madison yes and you work in the
4:57:18healthcare field right I do generally
4:57:21Wi-Fi available at most of those places
4:57:26yes in fact what do you say to Chandler
4:57:29at 224 weird they all have
4:57:32it have
4:57:34it but maybe it's your carrier
4:57:41what does Chandler
4:57:42say I'll try and get it on I'll try and
4:57:46get it
4:57:52on some of those messages were
4:57:54duplicates do you know if they were sent
4:57:56twice or they were just received
4:58:01twice I'll ask a better question um that
4:58:05last one where there were duplicate
4:58:07messages two in a row
4:58:10I'll try to get it on I'll try to get it
4:58:12on um one possibility is someone
4:58:15actually wrote that message out sent it
4:58:17and there was some glitch in the system
4:58:20and it got sent to us right
4:58:23objection speculation and lack of
4:58:26foundation I think the witness has
4:58:28testified to some electronic Savvy
4:58:30enough that I think I'll let the
4:58:31question be asked and answered if she
4:58:33can I like the way the judge I like the
4:58:37way the judge says that so politely
4:58:40sure is one possibility of that same
4:58:41message coming through twice that there
4:58:43was maybe a glitch in the system or
4:58:44someone was in bad service area and the
4:58:46message just went through twice yes is
4:58:49another possibility that someone
4:58:50actually wrote that out and sent it
4:58:51twice
4:58:53purposefully yes
4:59:00um so at 3:25 maybe an hour into this
4:59:05after the bad service Chandler text you
4:59:07can you read these for me hi hun
4:59:10heading
4:59:12home they took an x-ray and a CT scan
4:59:15nothing bad on the
4:59:20X-ray oh nothing
4:59:23bad nothing bad on the X-ray I'm all
4:59:25good oh but I thought you lost your job
4:59:27over all of that that you needed surgery
4:59:30and so many other
4:59:33things at that point um I think you
4:59:36testified you didn't Drive Chandler to
4:59:38the doctor's appointment no did you
4:59:40Facetime with him while he was
4:59:43there at the appointment
4:59:46yeah not that I remember uh and you did
4:59:49you see his location his Snapchat
4:59:51location was he at any doctor's
4:59:52appointment that you could
4:59:54tell not that I saw okay and so kind of
4:59:58like I asked you before with the jobs
5:00:00and the School absent what Chandler was
5:00:03telling you did you have any indication
5:00:05that he in fact was at any doctor's
5:00:07appointment do you know for
5:00:08sure no
5:00:15but after Chandler says nothing bad on
5:00:16the X-ray just read kind of what you
5:00:19responded a
5:00:21Florida and what' you say let me see
5:00:24face um what does that mean to you guys
5:00:28um generally when we miss each other
5:00:30we'll ask to see face which means we'll
5:00:32send each other snapshot of our face
5:00:36okay after you guys to see his face how
5:00:38does Cham respond
5:00:41CT scan
5:00:47hun you ask him what was on it no bad
5:00:51news can you read his response to you
5:00:53they haven't determined anything both
5:00:55with my legs like they were and all I
5:00:58got to wait to hear what they
5:01:07determined you read your first response
5:01:09to that
5:01:11I mean it's all I can do is shake my
5:01:13head I'm just like I don't know like all
5:01:15the lies of this guy made up oh my
5:01:16goodness soreness and stiffness is
5:01:18normal after Whiplash and an
5:01:21accident and the next one especially
5:01:24with how much your F wouldn't let you
5:01:25move around your house what did this
5:01:27message mean why did you say
5:01:30that
5:01:32um he was at the time staying in the
5:01:36basement because there was darker it was
5:01:39a darker room
5:01:40cuz he had sensitivity to the light and
5:01:42his mom didn't want him doing much
5:01:44because she was really concerned
5:01:46about him you know hurting himself or
5:01:50maybe passing out lifting things so he
5:01:53just generally stayed in
5:01:55there um what you knew about his
5:01:58restrictions in the house was that just
5:02:00from what chanler told you yes okay did
5:02:04you ever have a conversation with
5:02:05Christa about that no
5:02:16you read his response at
5:02:183:28 no need to be worried just got to
5:02:21wait and next one FaceTime when you get
5:02:29off shortly there later or thereafter
5:02:32you say so we're not worried and read
5:02:35his response for us if you could I am
5:02:38meaning he's worried yes
5:02:40and your
5:02:42response they're sure you're
5:02:55fine you just could read your messages
5:02:58to him at this point starting at
5:03:003:29
5:03:02what snap me
5:03:05back sir
5:03:11are you okay what does he say
5:03:14sorry you say are you
5:03:20okay what are these me messages did you
5:03:22know what was going on you were sending
5:03:23them a series of messages did you have
5:03:25any idea of why he wasn't getting back
5:03:26to
5:03:28you not that I
5:03:30recall okay um when you say snap me back
5:03:34even though maybe we didn't see it does
5:03:35that indicate maybe you did you send a
5:03:36snap to him around that time
5:03:41sorry did you respond pardon did you
5:03:44send a snap to him around that time is
5:03:45that why you said snap me
5:03:51back I don't recall if I sent one then
5:03:54or if I sent one earlier in the day and
5:03:56he just wasn't sending it
5:03:58back at 4:19 on Monday July
5:04:045th you read what Chandler sent to
5:04:07you I think so I'm calling cra I need
5:04:10some time up at the
5:04:12water and you say Okay correct um what's
5:04:17that in reference to just so everyone's
5:04:19on the same
5:04:20page
5:04:22um so that he can go up to the farm and
5:04:25uh use the pool okay did you go with him
5:04:29that Monday to the farm no I did not why
5:04:35not I
5:04:37just was going to be at home
5:04:42did
5:04:45you again I think you already testify
5:04:47that Chandler hadn't been out there by
5:04:49himself before um to the farm but did
5:04:52you overhear any sort of conversations
5:04:54with Chandler the day prior perhaps
5:04:56asking to come
5:05:02out yes and who are those con who's
5:05:06having that conversation what people my
5:05:08mom and crest
5:05:12okay did you talk to Chandler in your
5:05:15recollection do you have any
5:05:15recollection if you talked to Chandler
5:05:17while he was on his way out to the farm
5:05:19yes um what was he talking
5:05:22about
5:05:26um about how he wants to use the pool
5:05:30and if I knew if Crest was home
5:05:33and uh if I could get a hold of her
5:05:40did you see Chandler that night after he
5:05:42left the farm yes where at my mom's home
5:05:47um did you say anything to you or do you
5:05:49remember anything about that
5:05:55night
5:05:56um I remember
5:05:59him telling me he lost the job at
5:06:03SpaceX um
5:06:17did you say why he lost the job at
5:06:20SpaceX
5:06:22um he said
5:06:25uh while he was working after the injury
5:06:28they found a lot of errors with what he
5:06:31was doing and he was like a page long or
5:06:34something like that and so they were
5:06:36letting him go okay when you say let him
5:06:39go were you under the impression that
5:06:41Chandler had actually started working at
5:06:43SpaceX yes and remotely or how did that
5:06:47work remotely okay but he was told you
5:06:51he was losing that job that day yes um
5:06:56did he talk to you about his doctor's
5:06:57appointment that day yes what did he say
5:07:00about that um he was going to have
5:07:04lifelong leg numbness lifelong leg
5:07:07numbness yes I'm going need you to pull
5:07:09that microphone just a little bit closer
5:07:10the fans start to go
5:07:13lifelong lifelong leg numbness wow okay
5:07:17Julie said he is a con artist and fooled
5:07:19not only her but everyone else including
5:07:21his parents for quite a while yes
5:07:25um anything else about the doctor's
5:07:28appointment or what they told him
5:07:41not that I can recall at this moment
5:07:43okay how was he acting when he told you
5:07:44he'd lost the jaob at
5:07:46SpaceX
5:07:48um
5:07:51sad just down
5:07:56okay now in another matter at any point
5:08:00around this time so now we're
5:08:02into Monday going into
5:08:05Tuesday Chandler mentioned anything
5:08:07about where his parents were
5:08:16um that they still weren't home and that
5:08:20they were probably still up at the cabin
5:08:26okay did you have any impression or were
5:08:28you told from Chandler when they were
5:08:29coming back from the cabin um either
5:08:33Monday or Tuesday morning okay for sure
5:08:36it's been marked in this case is exhibit
5:08:37number 537
5:08:40first couple of me messages on there um
5:08:42do that appear to be now we're into
5:08:44Tuesday July 6 messages between you and
5:08:46Chandler yes okay I'll move 537 into
5:08:49evidence and ask to publish it any
5:08:51objection no 537 is received and may be
5:09:01published on July 6 2021 around
5:09:059: now we're to Tuesday in the afternoon
5:09:08what do you say to him parents home H
5:09:10what did that mean to you are your
5:09:12parents home had you discussed with
5:09:14Chandler like where your parents before
5:09:16this message was sent was this a
5:09:17follow-up or was this the first kind of
5:09:19time you were asking followup okay and
5:09:21was that like a verbal conversation
5:09:23where you were asking them where they
5:09:24were yes okay what did he told you what
5:09:26did he tell you in that verbal
5:09:28conversation um there's poor reception
5:09:31up north and by the cabin so that's why
5:09:35he had been hearing from them okay so
5:09:38you say parents home
5:09:40go ahead and read Chandler's response uh
5:09:42905
5:09:44no what do you say text Mitch Mitch is
5:09:48his brother correct why' you think you
5:09:50should text
5:09:52Mitch um his parents still weren't home
5:09:56at the time they said they would be and
5:09:59he wasn't receiving many messages from
5:10:01his um mother that weekend and that was
5:10:04highly unusual since she texts quite
5:10:07often tell me about that you say um when
5:10:11when Christa or Bart would be away from
5:10:13Chandler you were with Chandler a lot of
5:10:15these times when they'd be away
5:10:17right uh would Christa be in
5:10:20communication with Chandler yes how
5:10:23frequently uh very frequently always
5:10:25asking what our plans are
5:10:28or just asking how we're doing um
5:10:32letting us know what she's doing sending
5:10:34pictures of the
5:10:36dogs would it be unusual
5:10:39for Christa to go a number of days
5:10:41without contacting Chandler in your
5:10:43experience of being around Chandler very
5:10:48unusual um were you growing concerned at
5:10:50any point yes tell me about that
5:10:54um like I said he wasn't hearing from
5:10:57his mother and usually when they're up
5:11:00north um she'll send photos to the cabin
5:11:03or the
5:11:04lake um especially if they're doing
5:11:07something like maybe I'll get like a
5:11:09little text
5:11:11but her not checking in with um Chandler
5:11:15was out of the ordinary
5:11:18and he wasn't hearing from her then
5:11:20maybe Mitch heard from his mother
5:11:22because she usually texts them both
5:11:27frequently the that Tuesday um the 6th
5:11:32now uh you worked that day normal day
5:11:34yes okay um and other than the messages
5:11:38maybe we talked about with Chandler did
5:11:40you spend a lot of time with Chandler
5:11:41that day in the evening okay what'd you
5:11:44do in the evening um he came over to uh
5:11:48my mom's house because on Tuesdays we do
5:11:52uh buffo Wild Wings the BOGO uh deal on
5:11:56their traditional wings and we watch
5:11:59Legally
5:12:00Blonde
5:12:03okay now the next day going into the 7th
5:12:07now we're on to Wednesday show you it's
5:12:09been marked in this case is exhibit
5:12:10number 538 series of messages on that
5:12:13day between you and
5:12:17Chandler yes that yes yes sorry answer
5:12:20verbally and then 540 just more messages
5:12:23that day but in a different exhibit yes
5:12:26okay I'll move 538 and 540 into evidence
5:12:30any objection other than the standing
5:12:31objection no objection you're honor they
5:12:33are received and may be published um
5:12:36before I show the messages in general
5:12:38what was the plan that Wednesday was
5:12:39that a work day for you that Wednesday
5:12:41yeah yes it was a work day for me
5:12:47okay let show you exhibit number
5:12:52538 some point you ask 538 you ask
5:12:55Chandler where are you going something
5:12:57like that yes
5:13:00okay he says what farm but no one here
5:13:04so leaving okay when you said Farm what
5:13:06was your understanding of where he was
5:13:07or where he was going um the Family
5:13:10Farm where you'd been on the 4th of July
5:13:13yes and where Chandler had been on the
5:13:14fifth yes
5:13:17okay you kind of invite him to swim if
5:13:19he needs to yes what he went back there
5:13:22on the
5:13:23seventh oh my so on the 5th remember
5:13:27they went to this farm cr's farm on July
5:13:294th but that was like for lunch you know
5:13:32Chandler scoping out the area asking cat
5:13:34to do like a walk around the property
5:13:36let's go see the chicken Coupe I think
5:13:38he was scoping out the area then he went
5:13:39back by himself on July 5th and that's
5:13:42when he disposed of his father's torso
5:13:44and tools and the murder weapon the
5:13:47rifle and a bag of bloody Rags July 5th
5:13:51right he had not reported his parents
5:13:53missing yet that was on July 7th so in
5:13:56between he's like you know going to the
5:13:58doctor and losing his SpaceX job and all
5:14:01of that and being Ultra sad and
5:14:03tired but like damn he said on July 7th
5:14:06as we saw the July 7th
5:14:09he that he was that no one's there and
5:14:11so he's leaving and cat says well you
5:14:13can go swim July 7th was a
5:14:17Wednesday that was the day did he not
5:14:19report his parents missing on the 7th I
5:14:21think so but he went back there oh that
5:14:24is so Eerie what was he planning to
5:14:35do there's a message with with no
5:14:38content there there um at
5:14:4110:16 Chandler texts you what does he
5:14:43say I feel
5:14:45weird you say
5:14:48what you say why
5:14:54yes 1054 what does Chandler say sorry
5:14:58I'm stressed
5:15:00hun I'm sure he was you say it's
5:15:03okay you can swim if you need to
5:15:15do you know if Chandler ended up at the
5:15:16farm that
5:15:18day pardon do you know if Chandler ended
5:15:21up out at the farm that
5:15:23day um yes by the texts
5:15:28okay
5:15:30and
5:15:33um do you know how long he stayed or
5:15:35what he did
5:15:36there no were you with him
5:15:40no
5:15:44um were you in communication with anyone
5:15:46else about Chandler going out to the
5:15:47farm that
5:15:58day can I ask a better question were you
5:16:02texting with your mom about that yes
5:16:05okay
5:16:10did you go out to the farm that
5:16:12day Wednesday on Wednesday the 7th no
5:16:17um after the 4th of July that weekend in
5:16:21general um remember earlier when I asked
5:16:23you about um the target pickups you did
5:16:26and the things you brought to Chandler
5:16:28for the cookout yes um did you ever take
5:16:31those Target bags out to the
5:16:33farm no okay um would that be something
5:16:37you would ever do is bring your your
5:16:38guard garage out to the farm and throw
5:16:39it away in a garbage can out there no
5:16:42okay I'm going to show you it's been
5:16:44marked in this case is exhibit
5:16:47number 538 in general if you just tell
5:16:50me what that is what it looks
5:16:52like the garbage bins on the farm and a
5:16:55Target
5:16:57bag it's five or 159 sorry that was 158
5:17:01this is 159 what is that the inside of
5:17:03the bin and these are garbage bins
5:17:05you've seen before while you're out
5:17:06there yes okay
5:17:09160 what does that look
5:17:11like a Target
5:17:14bag I asked you earlier were there
5:17:17labels on those bags that you get when
5:17:19you do grocery pickups
5:17:22yes what is
5:17:25161 um my target uh pickup number with
5:17:30my uh first initial last name and the
5:17:33date okay and that date is July 1st
5:17:37correct okay
5:17:43show you exibit 164 um is that just a
5:17:47little bit more of an overview of that
5:17:48Target bag you guys are so funny you're
5:17:51like what who's sniffing unfortunately
5:17:53the prosecutor I didn't make it sniffle
5:17:55free I think that would have taken hours
5:17:58can you imagine yes okay 165 same thing
5:18:03is that what it is yes 166
5:18:09yes
5:18:11167 yes okay those are all appear to be
5:18:15what they appear to be the target bags
5:18:17that you picked up on the first those
5:18:18Target pickups yes
5:18:23okay I would
5:18:27move
5:18:29158
5:18:33159 160
5:18:36161 164
5:18:40165 166 and 167 in evidence any
5:18:44objection no obje objection thank
5:18:47you they are received they may be
5:18:52published 158 those are the garbage bins
5:18:54at the farm correct and I think you
5:18:58described what was in front of it but
5:18:59what did that appear to be a Target bag
5:19:02okay there
5:19:02158 159 what are we looking at there the
5:19:06inside of the bin
5:19:10160 what are we looking at there Target
5:19:14bag I'll jump around a bit 167 is that
5:19:18just a close-up of the target bag
5:19:20correct I think we had a few of those
5:19:23166
5:19:25165 but in 164 another close-up of the
5:19:30bag where I'm pointing at the bottom of
5:19:32the photograph is that one of those
5:19:33labels yes it is and in 161 is that a
5:19:37close-up of that label yes it is okay
5:19:41when it says date put on hold is that
5:19:43the date you ordered it yep the date I
5:19:46uh ordered it
5:19:48okay cat did you dump off that Target
5:19:52bag out at the farm no
5:19:56um if the
5:19:58bag inside of
5:20:00it had
5:20:03Rags that were covered in a red
5:20:05substance would you know do you know
5:20:07anything about that
5:20:09no do you know where it would have come
5:20:11from no where would that bag have been
5:20:14last in in your
5:20:17knowledge the hollers
5:20:27resident I mean the
5:20:30Betrayal again that's an understatement
5:20:32but the Betrayal I think it it's taken
5:20:35her a long time to process it you know
5:20:38so but just to be like wait what so I
5:20:41brought I brought groceries and dinner
5:20:43and everything you asked for but then
5:20:44you Ed the bag to put all these bloody
5:20:46rags in and then just Chuck it out at
5:20:49cr's property with my name on it damn
5:20:52that must be
5:21:03infuriating and you have no you have any
5:21:05knowledge at all of how whatever was in
5:21:08that bag got in that
5:21:09bag no
5:21:13[Music]
5:21:16okay so around that time that Chandler
5:21:19said he was going back out to the farm
5:21:21he was stressed I think you identified
5:21:23540 which was another set of messages
5:21:25from that same day if I haven't on move
5:21:27540 into
5:21:29evidence I think that you have okay and
5:21:33which day if you can restate the day
5:21:35sure so we're now we're on the the
5:21:36seventh thank you
5:21:41can you read the first message we have
5:21:43on here from Chandler on the 7th around
5:21:4511:22 going to
5:21:48police what does he say next can I have
5:21:50$5 for a soda and
5:21:55chips oh
5:21:57my the SpaceX guy okay but he lost his
5:22:00job at that point okay but can I have $5
5:22:02for soda and
5:22:04chips asking his girlfriend what
5:22:11and what did you respond I don't have $5
5:22:14B
5:22:16okay going to
5:22:19police around that time was there a
5:22:21discussion again of why he was going to
5:22:22the
5:22:23police yes to report his parents missing
5:22:27okay at this point what did he told you
5:22:29about his parents being missing so they
5:22:31you knew they were scheduled to come
5:22:32back but what did you learn since that
5:22:34would cause Chandler to go to the
5:22:36police um his mom had an appoint uh
5:22:40appointment for her
5:22:42cancer and um it was uh very important
5:22:46so it was very unusual for her to miss
5:22:52that um did you have a conversation with
5:22:55Chandler about whether he should or
5:22:57shouldn't make a missing person's report
5:22:59for his parents yes what did you tell
5:23:02him I said he should they've been gone
5:23:06for so long and he hasn't heard from
5:23:07them
5:23:09did he say anything about what was going
5:23:10into his decision on whether to report
5:23:12them missing or not report them missing
5:23:18yet can you repeat that sure did
5:23:21Chandler tell you anything about why he
5:23:23hadn't made a missing person report at
5:23:24that
5:23:27time like until then like why that day
5:23:31yeah because
5:23:33um he thought they were just running lay
5:23:36and
5:23:38the deciding factor to report them
5:23:40missing was his mom missing that
5:23:41appointment okay now the next day July
5:23:458th Thursday um you were supposed to go
5:23:48to work right correct um that night the
5:23:52police had been involved in in
5:23:54Chandler's house and and talking to
5:23:56people right correct were you one of
5:23:58those people talked to by the
5:24:00police on Thursday
5:24:05yeah sure can you restate the question I
5:24:08apologize no no you're doing great did
5:24:10you go with Chandler to report his
5:24:11parents missing I did not go with him to
5:24:13report them missing okay do you know
5:24:16were you over at Chandler's house when
5:24:17the police came over that
5:24:20night on Wednesday yeah I was not there
5:24:23okay the next day um you went to work
5:24:26and and tell me about work that day um I
5:24:31was uh very emotional and upset
5:24:35and just very distraught and I
5:24:39just um I just couldn't be there because
5:24:42I was really worried about his parents
5:24:45and so
5:24:47um I talked to my bosses about leaving
5:24:49early so I could go go be at the house
5:24:53with Chandler and wait until
5:24:56we but but how long did you make it at
5:24:58work that day before you left I was
5:25:00there Max 30 40 minutes okay and where
5:25:04did you go after you
5:25:07left I um I am stopped at my mom's home
5:25:11to grab groceries so I could go to the
5:25:14house and cook for Chandler while we
5:25:16waited
5:25:18okay when you got to the house um was
5:25:22anyone else
5:25:24there uh what when I pulled up uh
5:25:28Chandler was outside talking to um
5:25:32reporters at any point did any other
5:25:35members of of Chandler's family show up
5:25:37at the house yes who uh Mitch and his
5:25:41fiance um did Mitch stay outside or did
5:25:43he come in uh he came in the home and
5:25:47what had Mitch you
5:25:50um he uh walked around the house
5:25:54um trying to see if there was anything
5:25:57that Chandler maybe missed about his
5:25:58parents
5:26:00leaving as Mitch walked around the house
5:26:03what did shamer do
5:26:05um he followed him
5:26:10followed her
5:26:16yes later that day you were asked to go
5:26:18to the police station down here downtown
5:26:21right yeah yes yeah and uh was Chandler
5:26:25asked to do the same yes you were
5:26:28brought down here by the police right
5:26:31yes were you in the same car or
5:26:33different cars when they brought you
5:26:34down here I was in a
5:26:39you doing
5:26:41okay I was in a different squad car than
5:26:43Chandler okay um did you go into an
5:26:47interview room with the police yes I did
5:26:50and um did they ask you questions yes do
5:26:54you know about how long you were down
5:26:55here that
5:26:56night a couple hours did you answer all
5:26:59of their questions yes at that point um
5:27:04and I'm asking about what your mindset
5:27:06was at the time um did you believe that
5:27:10you or Chandler had done anything wrong
5:27:12at that point no okay were you emotional
5:27:16during emotional during that interview
5:27:19yes um how do you express your emotions
5:27:23sometimes I cry a lot or if I get too
5:27:28anxious um or emotional I start
5:27:31vomiting those things were happening
5:27:34that night yeah police asked at times to
5:27:38at your your phone and and photographs
5:27:41and things of that
5:27:43sort pardon and did you show them
5:27:46anything they wanted to see anything
5:27:48they wanted yeah I gave to them why was
5:27:50it important to you to cooperate at that
5:27:53time because I I I just believed his
5:27:58parents were
5:28:00missing and I just want them to be phone
5:28:10so you can tell us if you need a break
5:28:12or if you want to keep going I'm almost
5:28:13done but it's up to you well you can
5:28:15keep going
5:28:17okay
5:28:20um were there any of the police
5:28:23questions that you would not
5:28:26answer not that I can recall um and did
5:28:30the police contact you after that night
5:28:32to talk again yes and did you fully
5:28:36cooperate and speak with them that time
5:28:38yes and several times law enforcement
5:28:42and other people have contacted you to
5:28:44speak about this and have you cooperated
5:28:47all of those times yes you've met with
5:28:49me personally a couple of times correct
5:28:53yes have you always in the course of of
5:28:56this investigation done your best to
5:28:58tell the absolute truth of what happened
5:29:00yes
5:29:02okay now I I I'm almost done and and I
5:29:06have to ask I'm going ask a couple
5:29:07questions I hope you appreciate why I'm
5:29:09asking
5:29:12him were you the person who was with
5:29:15Chandler the most
5:29:17from let's say the 1 July 1st all the
5:29:21way through when you were in the police
5:29:23station getting interviewed on the eth
5:29:25were you maybe the person that at least
5:29:26in your knowledge were you the person
5:29:28who was maybe with them the most yes and
5:29:30were you the person who other than
5:29:32Chandler was in based on your knowledge
5:29:34in the halderson home the most yes
5:29:39prior to eventually being told what
5:29:41happened by police and and perhaps the
5:29:44defense investigators or myself
5:29:47um um did you
5:29:50know that Barton Crystal halderson had
5:29:55died
5:29:57no cat did you have absolutely anything
5:30:00to do with cleaning anything up or their
5:30:04disappearance no
5:30:09no further questions okay okay I think
5:30:12we should take a break before
5:30:13cross-examination we've been um Here for
5:30:16a Good close to hour and 15 minutes um
5:30:19and I I certainly we can't break for the
5:30:22day at this point in time we finish with
5:30:24there'll be a cross-examination and then
5:30:26they'll break for the day of course
5:30:27we're just going to teleport right
5:30:28through this afternoon afternoon break
5:30:31as well depending on what time it is for
5:30:33you so here we go we've still got about
5:30:37uh just less than 20 minutes left of the
5:30:39trial footage for today uh with this
5:30:41witness for everyone's convenience but
5:30:42let's take a 10-minute break all right
5:30:45for the jury cross-examination attorney
5:30:48Vera thank
5:30:50you Cat is it okay if I call you cat yes
5:30:55I just have a couple questions for you
5:30:56so I won't keep you here super long um
5:30:59we saw a lot of screenshots and pictures
5:31:02that you provided law
5:31:03enforcement um It's Not Unusual for you
5:31:06to take screen shots and have a lot of
5:31:09pictures of your activities correct no
5:31:12and we're just focusing on a particular
5:31:15time frame but as far as photographs and
5:31:17screenshots that's about what you do any
5:31:21other month any other week correct
5:31:24correct um I want to take you back to
5:31:26the halderson household for a little bit
5:31:29you've probably been there about at
5:31:31least a dozen times is that fair yes
5:31:34probably more mhm so you're familiar
5:31:37with the layout of the home yes and
5:31:39you're probably familiar with how the
5:31:41halderson kept the home yes um so you're
5:31:45familiar with the fact that they didn't
5:31:48have an AC unit correct correct um and
5:31:53this summer was particularly hot correct
5:31:56correct um so when you were around
5:31:57during the summer it wasn't unusual for
5:32:00them to have their windows open Not
5:32:02Unusual at all um they were also doing
5:32:05renovations around that time correct
5:32:08correct um we've seen a couple pictures
5:32:10of the home and there
5:32:12were what all refer to as blankets that
5:32:16were covering some of the furniture
5:32:18That's Not Unusual correct not at all
5:32:21and do you know why the blankets were
5:32:23there um Miss halderson likes protecting
5:32:26the couches from the dogs cuz they would
5:32:28jump on there especially once coming
5:32:31outside um so that was probably
5:32:33something that was kept year round
5:32:36throughout the house the blankets on on
5:32:37the couches yeah correct thank you um
5:32:41now as far as time you spent with the
5:32:45halderson it sounded like you you spent
5:32:47a lot of time with them there as a a
5:32:50family if you will correct correct um so
5:32:53you've probably had a couple meals with
5:32:55them correct and would you agree with me
5:32:58that the halderson Chandler Brett and
5:33:00Christa enjoyed cold
5:33:03beverages correct and they um you
5:33:07mentioned during your direct that in one
5:33:10of the freezers there was a bag of ice
5:33:13correct it's not unusual for them to
5:33:15have bags of ice in their
5:33:17household no it's not unusual and is
5:33:20that because there was um a broken ice
5:33:23maker or did they even have an ice
5:33:25maker um the ice maker in the fridge in
5:33:30the kitchen U was always broken and they
5:33:33had um a tiny ice maker a little
5:33:36portable one but it it uh it was slow at
5:33:39making ice so sometimes um Chandler
5:33:42would go get some ice from Quick Trip I
5:33:44think that was the nearest place correct
5:33:46and sometimes Crystal would do that too
5:33:48correct maybe even Bart
5:33:54correct you mentioned the dogs and we've
5:33:57kind of heard about the dogs for a bit
5:34:00um so the halderson had two dogs correct
5:34:03yes Rizo and Izzy um and
5:34:07a couple of times we've heard that maybe
5:34:10perhaps they were kept in the garage
5:34:12when people were coming over in your
5:34:15experience would you describe the dogs
5:34:18and maybe one in particular as
5:34:21anxious yes maybe jumpy yes bit afraid
5:34:27yes and that was was it both of the dogs
5:34:29or just one dog uh Rizzo Rizzo and she's
5:34:32the oldest one or the youngest one the
5:34:34youngest um and that was just her
5:34:36personality correct correct did she was
5:34:39she nice with you did she approach
5:34:42you it took her a long time but yes but
5:34:46eventually she warmed up to you yes
5:34:50and in particular around this time
5:34:54because it's 4th of July there were a
5:34:55lot of fireworks going off correct
5:34:58correct and that just made her anxious
5:35:00getting is worse correct and as far as
5:35:04the dogs go Chandler Loved These dogs
5:35:07correct
5:35:08correct he took good care of these dogs
5:35:11correct you mentioned that I I think it
5:35:13was Izzy that fell down the stairs and
5:35:15he he stayed with her to make sure she
5:35:17was okay or was that the other dog Rizzo
5:35:19uh it was Izzy who
5:35:21fell and as far as Chandler goes you
5:35:24would agree with me that he's generally
5:35:26a quiet individual correct reserved
5:35:31correct you probably bring out more of
5:35:33his
5:35:35personality correct um we also saw a lot
5:35:38of pictures that you two took together
5:35:40was that something that you did often
5:35:43correct and you would also agree with me
5:35:46that he's a pretty nerdy guy correct he
5:35:49loves Star Wars correct did you already
5:35:52have Chewbacca before met you met
5:35:54Chandler or did he help you out with
5:35:56that I got Chewbacca about 3 weeks after
5:36:00dating Chandler but I named him so you
5:36:03guys had a bond with that with Star Wars
5:36:05yes uh I had an action figure collection
5:36:07that he liked I have no further
5:36:10questions for you thank you any
5:36:15redirect um I don't know if that helped
5:36:18chanda's case at all those questions did
5:36:21it I don't know sorry I can't keep up
5:36:23with all your questions you guys there's
5:36:25so many questions in chat I'm like whoa
5:36:28I will try to answer them as we go uh
5:36:31silly pick welcome okay let's go we've
5:36:34got just about 10 minutes left can I
5:36:36approach briefly sure take long you
5:36:39mentioned the um haers had a small ice
5:36:43machine in their
5:36:44home yes
5:36:47um how much when you say small what do
5:36:50you mean by that like what how quickly
5:36:51would it produce
5:36:53ice
5:36:55um maybe
5:36:58like about three of these wi and maybe
5:37:03three stats it was it was
5:37:05um not that big
5:37:08and um it created little ice cubes that
5:37:10you would just scoop and put in your
5:37:12drink and you would have to constantly
5:37:14add water to keep it going sure um the
5:37:20July 1st or or July 2nd um around that
5:37:24time you said the holders sometimes
5:37:26would buy ice though if they needed more
5:37:29yes what around that time do you know of
5:37:32any reason why Chandler would have
5:37:33needed 20 or more pounds of ice more
5:37:36than what was be able to be produced at
5:37:37the house in that ice
5:37:42maker can you repeat that right do you
5:37:45know of any reason that Chandler uh for
5:37:48his own purposes would have needed 20 or
5:37:49more pounds of ice around July 1st this
5:37:53year not that I can think of no okay and
5:37:56around that time you had brought a bag
5:37:57of ice to the house too right yes
5:38:02okay so there was the ice maker there's
5:38:04the bag you brought bought and then if I
5:38:07ask you if Chandler had bought two more
5:38:10bags there's a lot of ice in the house
5:38:11around that time yes no further
5:38:14questions and I'll just note for the
5:38:16record that I think it's fair that's
5:38:18pretty sus
5:38:19obviously was like that's a lot of ice
5:38:22just all of a sudden which he didn't
5:38:24normally do to say the dimensions was
5:38:26approximately a foot by a foot cube is
5:38:29what I'm gathering from my angle of of
5:38:31view any problem with that no anything
5:38:35uh any dispute with that from the
5:38:37defense no may this witness be excused
5:38:40she is excused is she released from her
5:38:42subpoena she is not all right that means
5:38:44miss that you are finished testifying
5:38:47here today but you're still under the
5:38:48state's subpoena and the defense if the
5:38:50defense has one and that you can't
5:38:53discuss your testimony with anyone and
5:38:55you'll have to wait to find out from the
5:38:58party subpoenaing you when you're
5:39:00released or whether you're being
5:39:01recalled all right thank you so much for
5:39:03your time you can go ahead and exit
5:39:05they'll take one more Witness
5:39:08good afternoon sir if if you are willing
5:39:10and believe you can do so safely and
5:39:11responsibly testifying without a mask
5:39:13would be our preference thank you go
5:39:16ahead good afternoon uh you're our last
5:39:18witness for the day but uh can you state
5:39:19and spell your name Timothy t m o t h y
5:39:25blank b l a n ke and Mr blank what do
5:39:29you do for a living I'm a detective for
5:39:31the Dane County Sheriff's Office how
5:39:32long have you been in that role I've
5:39:34been a detective since 2014
5:39:36[Music]
5:39:39and how long have you been in law
5:39:41enforcement since
5:39:442004 uh were you asked to assist in the
5:39:47missing person's investigation to Barton
5:39:49Chris halderson that turned into a
5:39:50homicide investigation at some point yes
5:39:52sir if you had to summarize generally
5:39:55what your role has been in this
5:39:56investigation uh what has it been I've
5:39:59had various aspects in the investigation
5:40:01including assisting with digital friends
5:40:04Acquisitions interviewing Witnesses
5:40:09um and helping compile
5:40:12information I think the jury just heard
5:40:14from a young woman by the name of cat uh
5:40:16were you involved in her interviews uh
5:40:18somewhat yes you're one of the
5:40:20detectives who conducted them yes uh at
5:40:22all times was cat Cooperative with you
5:40:25yes okay I'm showing you what been
5:40:26marked in this case is exhibit number
5:40:28120 um just briefly what is that that is
5:40:32my curriculum
5:40:35V your role as a detective with the D
5:40:37County Sheriff's departments are you
5:40:38frequently called upon to uh conduct
5:40:41investigations into electronics and and
5:40:43computer technology and things of that
5:40:44sort yes um and what type of training do
5:40:47you have in that
5:40:48area I'm certified in multiple uh
5:40:51disciplines and electronic um I'm sorry
5:40:53digital forensic tools including the
5:40:55celebrate Eed 4pc software celebrate
5:40:59physical
5:41:00analyzer um and bur for digital
5:41:03forensics of
5:41:05automobiles um we may hear from multiple
5:41:07times during this trial uh but it's
5:41:09first time I think the word sellbrite
5:41:10has been mentioned what is sellbrite
5:41:13selbite is a company that provides a
5:41:15number of software solutions to law
5:41:17enforcement the defense industry the in
5:41:20um government intelligence agencies as
5:41:22well as the private sector uh for
5:41:24acquiring and analyzing Digital
5:41:26Data and um for a large part just Dane
5:41:30County Sheriff's Department as well as
5:41:32other police agencies employ some of
5:41:33sellbrite services yes and specifically
5:41:37one one of their services involving the
5:41:38downloads of phones email accounts
5:41:40things of that sort yes um just give us
5:41:43a basic overview if I gave you my phone
5:41:45and I gave you my password um what would
5:41:46celbrate do to it the celbrate ufed 4pc
5:41:50program would be used to acquire data
5:41:52from the phone it essentially makes a
5:41:53copy of the phone in a forensically
5:41:55sound manner to prevent any alteration
5:41:58of the data okay
5:42:01um if a lay person were to use the
5:42:05phrase the police download my phone or
5:42:07they mirrored my phone is what they're
5:42:09referring to as a cellbreak download yes
5:42:11okay I just picked up a random exhibit
5:42:13it doesn't really matter it's exhibit
5:42:15540 um what does that appear to
5:42:18be that appears to be a text
5:42:20conversation obtained from a CBR okay um
5:42:24does sellbrite have different ways you
5:42:25can view the messages or view the
5:42:27communications within the software yes
5:42:30um one of those ways is this very
5:42:33pleasant way to see it correct yes and
5:42:36what's the way what's this referred to
5:42:38in in your industry conversation View
5:42:40and what's the other way uh there's a
5:42:42timeline option there's a few others
5:42:44sure so if I display 540 which is
5:42:47already in evidence um messages that
5:42:50we've already looked at um this is the
5:42:52conversation view um that's the product
5:42:55of sellbrite from the raw data it
5:42:57downloads from phones yes okay can
5:43:00sellbrite be utilized in other aspects
5:43:02or is it just phones uh no it's a can be
5:43:06utilized for a number of options uh what
5:43:08other types of services communication
5:43:11methods things of that sort can cellb be
5:43:12used for uh sellbrite can be used for um
5:43:15acquiring data from thumb drives um
5:43:18other electronic storage methods uh we
5:43:21can actually obtain data from drones um
5:43:24we can also use it to analyze data um
5:43:26provided to us by a number of um
5:43:28Electronic Services I'm sorry internet
5:43:30service providers such as Google
5:43:32Facebook Apple in the course of this
5:43:35case were you asked to do uh just that
5:43:37in in a variety of different fashions
5:43:39for different devices and services using
5:43:41sellbrite software yes okay have you
5:43:44found that software to be um a good tool
5:43:48and an accurate tool to download the
5:43:49contents of either those providers email
5:43:51accounts or Google or phones have you
5:43:54found that to be accurate and a and a
5:43:56solid tool for law enforcement to use
5:43:58yes and do you have any problems with it
5:44:00yourself
5:44:01[Music]
5:44:03no you said you had numerous
5:44:05involvements in this case different
5:44:07things at some point were you asked to
5:44:09meet with the defendant's brother a
5:44:11young man by the name of Mitchell
5:44:12halderson regarding a DNA sample yes
5:44:14okay um and did you obtain a DNA sample
5:44:17from him yes I did in a homicide
5:44:19investigation is DNA are DNA samples
5:44:21taken from a variety of people yes um
5:44:23for what purposes that can be for a
5:44:25number of purposes it can be to identify
5:44:27a suspect but it can also be to
5:44:29eliminate someone from involvement in a
5:44:30crime um it can also be used to identify
5:44:34um other people's involvement in other
5:44:37aspects of the crime sure um and did you
5:44:41talk to Mitchell about getting a DNA
5:44:42sample yes and did he provide one to you
5:44:45yes he did show it's been marked in this
5:44:46case is exhibit number
5:44:48361 what does that appear to be that
5:44:51would be the Buckle swabs that I took
5:44:52from Mitchell halderson okay because of
5:44:55the Cadence and where you're testifying
5:44:56in this case it's probably the first
5:44:57time anyone's used heard the phrase
5:44:58buckle swab what is a buckle
5:45:00swab that's a swab taken from the mouth
5:45:02of a suspect of a person we're obtaining
5:45:05it from and you took it yourself yes I
5:45:08did how do you take a buckle swab from
5:45:10someone uh the first step is to um place
5:45:14a mask over my own mouth to prevent any
5:45:16of my own DNA from contaminating the
5:45:18sample and also to wear latex gloves
5:45:20which are provided in that
5:45:22kit we then have the person we're
5:45:25obtaining the sample from um take a
5:45:27drink of water and Swit it around in
5:45:28their mouth to remove any residual um
5:45:31DNA that might be in their mouth from
5:45:32another person um then two swabs are
5:45:36taken um for approximately 30 seconds
5:45:38each on um each side of the inside of
5:45:41the person's cheeks um using a cotton
5:45:43swab attached to a wooden stick
5:45:45essentially a long Q-tip okay after I
5:45:49was going to ask what is the most recent
5:45:52Buckle swap that we saw together
5:45:55Grizzlies do you remember CU I just
5:45:58remember the side profile of the
5:46:01defendant now convicted opening his
5:46:03mouth like it was like oh my okay
5:46:08that was Joseph Faso if you did not see
5:46:11the Joseph Faso trial with us go and
5:46:13check it out all the trials that I've
5:46:15done on this channel the first one was
5:46:16latia star everything's time stamped for
5:46:18you so it's easy to just navigate to
5:46:21what you want to see right that trial
5:46:23was quite something especially when he
5:46:25took the stand do you take a buckle swab
5:46:27from a suspect and we can use um
5:46:29Mitchell halderson as the example uh
5:46:31what do you do with it at that point I
5:46:33retain custody and control of it I then
5:46:35allow it to drive for a minimum of 24
5:46:37hours before uh packaging it and uh is
5:46:42it sealed at that point yes and where
5:46:44are those generally kept in the day
5:46:46County Sheriff's Office evidence room
5:46:48and are those frequently transported to
5:46:50a certain location for testing at some
5:46:51point yes and what's that location the
5:46:53Wisconsin State Crime Lab uh anything
5:46:55about uh Mitchell alderson's Buckle swab
5:46:58or DNA sample different than the normal
5:47:00process for you not at all
5:47:03okay if I haven't already done so I'll
5:47:05move 361 into evidence and we'll just
5:47:07leave that there for now any objection
5:47:09no objection it's received in one of
5:47:12your you mentioned that you interviewed
5:47:14um cat and one of those interviews do
5:47:16you become aware that this was a
5:47:18screenshot exhibit 532 that she had
5:47:20taken of a location of Chandler
5:47:22halderson yes and did she provide this
5:47:24to you I believe so yes at some point
5:47:27were you and other sheriff's deputies
5:47:29just using the streets on here able to
5:47:31match that up to a real location in the
5:47:32real
5:47:35world we able to figure out where the
5:47:37was yes and where was it it's in the
5:47:40town of rockberry um just across the
5:47:42Wisconsin River from the Sock City Pria
5:47:45Sac area Okay um have you been out to
5:47:48that property no I haven't okay and
5:47:51you're aware that sheriff's deputies
5:47:53later searched that property yes and I'm
5:47:56going to show what's been marked briefly
5:48:00as 55 it's been received into evidence
5:48:03uh does that appear to be the area that
5:48:05was snap or screen shot it by cat and
5:48:07provided to you during that interview I
5:48:09don't recognize that area I haven't seen
5:48:11it myself sure give you one second
5:48:16[Music]
5:48:19here just to match it up if you look at
5:48:22532 this was the screenshot she provided
5:48:24to you mhm and is there a little island
5:48:26in the middle of the river right there
5:48:28yes all right and there's it's a rural
5:48:30area with a town across the way yes okay
5:48:38the area where he disposed of his
5:48:40mother's legs sure no further questions
5:48:44for now cross examination at this
5:48:48time no thank you may this witness be
5:48:50excused but not released yes thank you
5:48:53so much
5:48:56detective ladies and gentlemen it is
5:48:58almost quarter to 5 and I think that's a
5:49:01good point for us to end
5:49:03today and that's it everyone it's done I
5:49:06didn't want to like I def fluffed as you
5:49:09know so I didn't even leave in you know
5:49:11when it's like don't watch any media you
5:49:14know don't read anything all of that all
5:49:16of that I just chopped it out for us so
5:49:20we can watch the trial efficiently I
5:49:22hope that you as Grim as the topic is
5:49:24enjoyed day three of this trial with me
5:49:26tomorrow we meet again for day four I
5:49:29unfortunately haven't set it up yet that
5:49:31was my mistake I'm going to set it up
5:49:33right now so in the next 15 minutes or
5:49:36so because sometimes I fiddle fiddle
5:49:38with a thumbnail to make it nice for you
5:49:40okay so in about 15 minutes come back to
5:49:42my channel and find day four and you can
5:49:45click notify me I know it will be
5:49:47December 31st when we are watching it
5:49:49but we're going to be watching it
5:49:51together I think it's a slightly shorter
5:49:52day on day four as well and it will
5:49:54include watching chander alderson's
5:49:56police video interview and I've got some
5:49:59good quality for you uh so that we can
5:50:01watch that at some point we'll watch cat
5:50:03U melander's police interviews as well
5:50:05it's not part of the trial but I do plan
5:50:07on watching that with you guys at some
5:50:09point okay so thank you so much everyone
5:50:11for being here thank you for all the
5:50:12support if you haven't yet subscribed
5:50:14it's free once you subscribe you're a
5:50:16Grizzly you want to be a Grizzly that's
5:50:18part of the community all you got to do
5:50:19is subscribe uh thanks also to all the
5:50:22patrons members everyone thank you mods
5:50:24oh my goodness the mods are working hard
5:50:26and to Grizzly cat for helping out today
5:50:28as well to mod thank you everyone I'll
5:50:30see you all tomorrow okay day four last
5:50:33day of the year if someone asks you do
5:50:35you have plans for for tomorrow yes I do
5:50:38actually I'm very busy someone actually
5:50:40asked me today at like a little
5:50:43Bakery so what are you guys doing for
5:50:45New Year's I'm like I'm covering a trial
5:50:47okay I'm very busy so was like okay so I
5:50:50look forward to being with you tomorrow
5:50:52on the last day of
5:50:542024 thanks everyone and I'm going to do
5:50:57set up day four I'm going to do the time
5:50:58stamps for you and I will see you then
5:51:00for day four bye everyone
5:51:07h
5:51:17[Music]
5:51:22[Music]
5:51:34[Music]
5:51:41[Music]
5:51:46[Music]
5:51:52[Music]
5:52:01[Music]

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