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David Milgaard wrongful murder conviction: Who Killed Gail Miller? (1990) - The Fifth Estate — Transcript

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0:02the body was found January 31st 1969
0:08exactly one year later David Milgard was
0:11sentenced for the crime he was 17 years
0:14old what was your reaction when they
0:16came back and they said guilty I turned
0:20around and I saw my father it was very
0:23big Matt and I just seen him look
0:27completely weak and that scared me more
0:30than anything else
0:31I think I've ever seen in my life the
0:35sentence was prison for life and for 20
0:38years now Milgard has been serving it
0:40he's grown up behind bars from a
0:43frightened teenager into an angry man
0:45angry because from the first day he
0:48walked into prison Milgard has
0:50maintained his innocence through two
0:52appeals that were rejected through two
0:54escapes that failed he has always said
0:57he was a victim of circumstance and a
0:59small town that was demanding a
1:01conviction the newspapers are just
1:03talking blood rape everybody's up in the
1:07air about it do you think they were just
1:09desperate to convict somebody and you
1:12happen to be it saskatoon was desperate
1:15to convict somebody and they did convict
1:18me yes
1:21what follows is a recreation of the
1:24Crown's case the transcript says Milgard
1:27arrived in Saskatoon the morning of the
1:29murder he was with two friends on the
1:31way from Regina to Vancouver where he
1:34admits they were hoping to buy drugs
1:37they weren't angels two years earlier
1:40Milgard spent time in a reformatory
1:42after he was picked up for joyriding but
1:44he had no criminal record his friend Ron
1:48Wilson however had just gotten out of
1:50jail it was his car they were riding in
1:53that day accompanied by Nicole John a
1:55girl Milgard says he met in a Regina
1:58Park the crown says it was about 6:30 in
2:03the morning when the three drove into
2:04town looking for the house of another
2:06friend of mill guards Albert could drain
2:11but Milgard had only been there once
2:13before and they got lost they came
2:16across a woman in a black coat and asked
2:18for directions but she couldn't help
2:20them
2:24as they attempted to turn around the car
2:26got stuck on some ice when they couldn't
2:30push it out the crown says Wilson and
2:32Milgard went for help
2:34Milgard in the direction of the woman
2:36they'd just seen
2:39according to the crown that woman was
2:42Gayle Miller a 20 year old nursing
2:44assistant on her way to work she was
2:46last seen alive that morning at her home
2:48at quarter to seven at ten past seven
2:52Milgard was seen but it was here at a
2:55motel several miles away from the
2:57neighborhood he had stopped to get a map
2:59by that time the crown says he had
3:02already killed Gayle Miller stabbed her
3:0414 times and left her body in a lane 21
3:09years after Gail Miller's body was found
3:11in this alley there are still questions
3:13about David Mill guards convictions at
3:15the time of his trial there was little
3:17physical evidence to implicate him no
3:19fingerprints no footprints no
3:21eyewitnesses on top of that there were
3:23questions about timings according to the
3:26testimony Milgard had only between 10
3:28and 20 minutes to find Gayle Millers
3:30rape and murder her and get out of the
3:32neighborhood
3:34there were questions - about mill guards
3:37behavior that morning after getting the
3:39map he and his friends returned to the
3:41neighborhood stopping to help another
3:43car in trouble if Mill guard had just
3:46killed someone you might expect he'd be
3:48nervous
3:48agitated but the people he helped say no
3:52he was polite he was observant and just
3:57seemed like a nice fella no so there was
3:59to it Alecia Dan Chuck and her husband
4:02Walter testified at the trial he looked
4:04like a very nice fella he was calm and
4:07he didn't look nervous or anything at
4:09that time just just a nice kid
4:14in the end what put Milgard behind bars
4:17was the testimony of his three friends
4:19when police first questioned them all
4:21three denied any knowledge of the murder
4:23none of them said anything to implicate
4:26Milgard but then one by one their
4:29stories changed first
4:33was Albert katraine three weeks after he
4:36was questioned he went back to police
4:38and told him that when Milgard finally
4:40arrived at his house that morning there
4:42was blood on his shirt and pants
4:44katraine later collected two thousand
4:47dollars that had been offered as a
4:48reward the Knicks story to change was
4:52Ron Wilson's after repeated police
4:55questioning he too said he saw blood on
4:57mill guard what's more he'd seen him
5:00with a paring knife one that matched the
5:02description of the murder weapon in a
5:04written statement he went further still
5:06saying that later in the trip in Calgary
5:09Milgard told him he'd quote hit a girl
5:11in Saskatoon grabbed her purse jabbed
5:14her with a knife but thought she'd be
5:16okay but the most damning evidence came
5:20from Nicole John again after repeated
5:23questioning she corroborated the story
5:25about the knife then she claimed to have
5:28seen the whole thing
5:30when the two boys went for help that
5:32morning John was left in the car
5:34she says she watched as Milgard dragged
5:37a woman into the alley and stabbed her
5:39with a knife at that point she says she
5:42ran both Kudrin and Wilson said that you
5:48had blood on your clothes did you
5:50I had no blood on my clothes both Wilson
5:53and John said you had a paring knife
5:54that you have a paring knife no tearing
5:57later John says she saw you stab a woman
6:00did you stab him
6:02I never stabbed a woman in fact by the
6:05time Nicole John took a stand at the
6:07trial she could no longer say he'd
6:09stabbed a woman either she refused to
6:12repeat what she told police in her
6:13statement and when she was asked about
6:15it she said she couldn't remember
6:17Milgard maintains it's proof she was
6:19intimidated by police and now 20 years
6:22after the trial there are new doubts
6:24about the other witnesses their
6:26credibility and how police treated them
6:29shortly after the trial Albert could
6:32reign ended up in the hospital it was
6:34the beginning of what his family says
6:36has been a long series of emotional
6:38problems and even today he remembers the
6:41stress I used to spit blood every five
6:43minutes all day long I started getting
6:47ulcers and spitting blood every five
6:49minutes I just scoff and spit -
6:51nevertheless Guidry stands by his story
6:54of seeing blood on mill guard but it now
6:57appears that in the days before the
6:59trial could drain was seeing a lot of
7:01things visions in which David mill guard
7:04was a snake for instance that's
7:06according to his brother Dennis who now
7:08wonders if cod range should have been
7:10called as a witness at all to me you
7:14know III don't know I don't know how
7:17much weight you can give to somebody
7:19that's emotionally destroyed
7:24and since then Ron Wilson has come
7:27forward to say his testimony shouldn't
7:29be given any weight either because he
7:31lied the Fifth Estate has obtained a
7:34copy of a statement he made to the
7:35Justice Department in July in it he says
7:38he lied about seeing blood on mill
7:40guards clothes lied about mill guard
7:43having a paring knife and as for the
7:45conversation in which mill guard
7:47supposedly told them he'd hit a girl in
7:49Saskatoon Wilson now calls that quote
7:51[ __ ] he says at the time he was
7:55questioned he was messed up on drugs and
7:57police took advantage of that to plant a
8:00story in his statement to the Justice
8:02Department Wilson says he was coerced
8:05quote I was scared that if they weren't
8:07going to charge David with this they
8:09were going to charge me we'd like to ask
8:12you about David mill guard well today
8:19none of the officers involved in the
8:21original investigation will talk
8:23publicly not even the man Ron Wilson
8:25accuses of coercion privately though
8:28retired detective Edie Carr's says he
8:30did nothing wrong
8:31and he welcomes a judicial review
8:35and the review is what David Milgard and
8:39his mother have been fighting for
8:43Minister
8:45listen to me
8:47[Music]
8:50three in a tireless campaign that began
8:55the day her son went to jail Joyce
8:57Milgard has played publicist and
8:59detective but it's not made her popular
9:02with the police or the woman who will
9:04decide her son's fate just as Minister
9:06Kim Campbell refuses to speak with her
9:08directly
9:09verax I'm sorry it's madam if you want
9:11your if you want your son to have a fair
9:13hearing don't approach me for some
9:14answers I'm doing what I have to do if
9:18they've done a proper investigation in
9:20the first place none of this would be
9:22happening today a case in point for
9:25years ago mrs. mill guard found Deb Hall
9:28a witness to a crucial part of the
9:30Crown's case who the police had never
9:33talked to a few weeks before Mill guard
9:36was arrested Hall attended a party in a
9:38motel room a party at which the crown
9:40says Milgard re-enacted the crime that
9:44information came from two witnesses
9:46Craig Melnick and George laptop both of
9:49whom were facing charges at the time
9:56what a story about the Miller murder
9:59come on the news somebody started
10:01teasing the guard by then was known to
10:03be a suspect
10:04according to lap Chuck and Melnick mill
10:07guard then jumped up grabbed a pillow
10:09and began stabbing it with his fist yes
10:12I stabbed her lap Chuck quoted him as
10:14saying I killed her I stabbed her 14
10:17times and then she died he was fluffing
10:21it so he was doing Nessun sort of thing
10:25and then he flipped it behind his back
10:27then so Deb Hall remembers it but she
10:30didn't testify as he what she didn't
10:32even know until 10 years later that mill
10:34guard had been convicted she still
10:36thinks he was joking absolutely hundred
10:39percent positive he was not serious
10:40myself it would have scared me I would
10:43have been out of there like that was lit
10:45on fire and I didn't take anything over
10:48at all
10:48Deb Hall was the first weapon in mill
10:51guards arsenal against the Justice
10:52Department since then his lawyers have
10:55collected to forensic opinions that
10:57criticized the evidence police used to
10:59build a case against him
11:01combine that with Ron Wilson's
11:03recantation and Hirsch Walsh says the
11:05conviction should not be allowed to
11:07stand but the whole story in a courtroom
11:11setting now before 12 people and there
11:13isn't a shred of a case against David
11:16Miller if justice minister Kim Campbell
11:19decides to reopen the Melgar case she
11:21has two options she can order a retrial
11:24or she can refer to an appeal court for
11:26a decision either way the test becomes
11:29is there a reasonable doubt david
11:31Milgard is innocent that's what he has
11:34to prove he doesn't have to prove who
11:36really killed Gail Miller but the fact
11:38is someone did and now the mill guard
11:41camp thinks they know who that is
11:45last March an anonymous phone tip led
11:48Joyce mill guard to this woman her name
11:50is Linda Fisher and for many years now
11:52she too has believed in David mill
11:55guards innocence the evidence to me
11:58points more to Larry with his record
12:01Larry is Larry Earl Fisher the man Linda
12:04was married to for three turbulent years
12:06in the late 60s in 1970 Fisher was
12:10arrested in Winnipeg on charges of rape
12:12and soon confessed to four previous
12:14sexual assaults three of them had turns
12:17out took place in Saskatoon on the
12:23morning Gail Miller was murdered David
12:25Milgard and his friends were looking for
12:27a house in Saskatoon the house of
12:29Alberta drain this was it a block and a
12:33half away from where Gail Miller's body
12:35was found but the code rains weren't the
12:38only tenants in the house back then
12:40there was an apartment in the basement
12:42and in 1969 it was occupied by Larry
12:46Fisher and his wife today
12:49Linda Fisher has vivid memories of the
12:52morning of the murder she and Larry were
12:54having yet another fight she says when a
12:56news report came on the radio in the
12:58heat of the moment she accused him of
13:00murdering Gail Miller well Larry you
13:03probably it was probably you that killed
13:07the Nerds and what was his reaction when
13:09you accused him boy just what he just
13:11looked at me and its color just drain
13:13you just stopped he quit arguing and
13:15and he he just looked like like like he
13:19was caught
13:21did you kill Gail Miller no I did not
13:23there nothing to do with that death this
13:28is Larry Fischer today he first went to
13:30jail in 1971 he's still here because
13:33when he was let out in 1980 he raped and
13:36almost killed another woman unlike his
13:39ex-wife he says he doesn't remember the
13:41morning Gail Miller was killed not the
13:43murder nor the accusation it seems
13:48strange that a wife would say to her
13:50husband I think you killed a woman and
13:51yet you don't remember know those sorts
13:57of things were said every day in your
13:58house Christ everything happened in our
14:02house in a statement she gave to a
14:05private investigator Linda Fisher says
14:07the other thing that makes her suspect
14:09her former husband is the fact that Gail
14:11Miller was killed with a knife and did
14:15you use knives when you committed those
14:17assaults not all of them how many of
14:20them I referred out about two maybe
14:25three and what kind of knife did you use
14:28just about any type I could use did you
14:31ever use a paring knife in any of those
14:32other results you use the one in
14:34Winnipeg and Winnipeg is this the facts
14:37add up to a very damning picture first
14:40of all you have a history of brutal
14:42rapes in some cases you did use a knife
14:44and then you lived a block and a half
14:46away from where Gail Miller's body was
14:48found doesn't that make you a logical
14:50suspect I fully agree with you but the
14:54cops have already had my name for 21
14:56years now if they had some concrete
14:58evidence why didn't they charge me 21
15:01years ago
15:02Linda Fisher says it's because they
15:05didn't do their homework ten years ago
15:07she went to police with her suspicions
15:09she never heard from them again
15:11do you believe he's guilty I may feel
15:14he's guilty but I don't want to say the
15:17man's guilty I know and I don't know it
15:18may be because of my own situation 20
15:23years later David Milgard knows that one
15:25way
15:26another his situation is about to change
15:28if the minister reopens his case there
15:31is hope if not he will remain in his
15:34cell at the mercy of the parole board
15:36since 1960 there have been hundreds of
15:39applications to the minister but only 14
15:42have been reopened and in only six of
15:44those where the charges dropped the odds
15:47are against him but Milgard continues to
15:50hope what's the most you're helping for
15:52most I'm hoping for somebody comes up to
15:55me and says David I've got a phone call
15:57a decision has been made
15:59they've exonerated you go home that's
16:03the best snack could happen for me

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