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David Berkowitz - The Son of Sam Full Interview — Transcript

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0:02i'm really um
0:04i'm thankful for this opportunity to
0:06share a lot of things you know over the
0:08years
0:09because the case the so-called son of
0:11sam case was very high profile and
0:15was reported around the world
0:17and and you know so many people got
0:20involved in the thing uh there's been so
0:22many misunderstandings and
0:24misinformation that have come down over
0:25the years
0:27but i just want to tell my story in my
0:29own words and this is david talking i'm
0:31just talking now to share what's on my
0:33heart what's on my mind
0:35to bring clarity to certain things i
0:37can't talk about everything i don't want
0:39to talk about the crimes specifically
0:43there's no reason to that's all been
0:45discussed before anybody who wants to
0:48learn about them can go on in the
0:50internet or whatever and
0:51watch whatever they watch just read
0:53whatever they read but for me
0:55this is my story this is david talking
0:59uh
1:00again 39 years in prison and i'm i'm
1:02sharing my heart now
1:04and you can take a leave whatever i say
1:06but um
1:07i was born in 1953
1:10in brooklyn new york and uh of course i
1:13didn't know it at the time but i was uh
1:16adopted i was adopted at birth uh by a
1:19jewish couple nathan and pearl berkowitz
1:22who lived in the bronx and the bronx is
1:24where i grew up even though i was born
1:26in brooklyn uh
1:28several days or a week after i was born
1:30while i was in the hospital in brooklyn
1:32you know my adoptive parents of course
1:35picked me up this was all pre-arranged
1:37and they took me to their home in the
1:39bronx where i grew up
1:41my birth parents i later learned i
1:43didn't find this out till many many
1:44years later actually when i was in my
1:46early 20s
1:47that my birth parents my mother's name
1:50was rebecca broder she was a from a re
1:55religious jewish family uh
1:58living you know growing up in brooklyn
2:00and my dad's name was joseph kleinman he
2:03was a uh
2:06also a jewish man and who had a family
2:08of his own
2:10my birth mother at
2:13um
2:14this is before i was born my birth
2:16mother had
2:19at the advice of the family not to she
2:21married a gentile
2:22guy back then in in i guess the 1940s
2:26and when this happened and again this is
2:28before i was born
2:30the rule of thumb was you you married
2:31your own kind and especially if you come
2:34from a
2:35conservative jewish family her i guess
2:37parents were you know
2:39from europe they immigrated with so many
2:42others they immigrated from hungary
2:44to to the united states
2:46when she was started dating an italian
2:48guy and it was a gentile the family was
2:52very upset but she knows he is a straw a
2:55head strong woman she married him anyway
2:58and
2:59they opened up a fish store in what was
3:01then williamsburg brooklyn it was
3:03falco's fish market
3:05and uh they ended up having a child who
3:08later i would learn would be my half
3:09sister roslyn now i wasn't even born yet
3:12so this is well before my time but i'm
3:14giving you the background and anyway uh
3:17within a about a year or so after they
3:19married and after
3:21uh betty gave birth to to my half-sister
3:25rosalind this fellow tony took off with
3:27another woman and was never seen or
3:29heard from since
3:31the store the little store went out of
3:33business and my mother was left to fend
3:35for herself
3:37uh some of the families stuck with stuck
3:39with her other family members rejected
3:42her because she had betrayed the family
3:44she was the
3:45proverbial black sheep of the family
3:48having married a gentile guy and upset
3:50her parents and made her parents sick
3:52and on and on the typical story that
3:54happens all the time you know it's not
3:55something shocking and it you know but
3:58it's sad
3:59anyway she she tried to fend for herself
4:02she had an apartment she kept a small
4:05modest apartment in brooklyn and she
4:07kept
4:08the name of her husband falco because
4:10she was still legally married even
4:12though by this time he had been gone for
4:1410 years
4:15because he had abandoned her she had to
4:18have income in some way so she was
4:20living on welfare and trying to raise
4:22her daughter as best as she could she
4:24was a loving mom a sweet person
4:26and there was a real struggle for her
4:29over time she met a man
4:31by the name of you know mr kleinman
4:33who
4:34saw that she was single and living alone
4:37and
4:38one thing led to another and they ended
4:40up uh having like an affair
4:43it's a common thing
4:45and uh but he had his own family and
4:47this affair lasted
4:49more than 20 years actually and the
4:51family act families actually knew about
4:53it they eventually met the wit the wife
4:56met the
4:57the uh mistress and it was all very
4:59bizarre kind of like a peyton place type
5:02uh
5:03drama you know a soap opera drama but um
5:06over time over a number of years is this
5:09relationship continued
5:11uh betty my mom she got pregnant with me
5:15and so when she told she told
5:18her
5:19her uh
5:22paramour you know her her lover joe he
5:24was a nice guy he was a hard-working guy
5:26he had his own family his family was
5:28doing very well he provided for
5:30everybody
5:31he was providing for her financially
5:33because she was my mom was struggling
5:36raising her daughter
5:39betty told him joe i'm pregnant
5:42well
5:43to make a long story short he told her
5:45listen
5:46i don't want a child we're not going to
5:48live with this you know you put the
5:50child up for adoption and that was the
5:52thing back then we're going back into
5:53the early 1950s this was the way society
5:57went back then this was the custom
5:59you you have a child out of wedlock
6:02it's a shameful thing
6:04by society's standards and the family
6:06standards and so she had the burden of
6:09of
6:10trying to figure out what to do with me
6:12uh come to find out
6:14she had a lot of heated arguments with
6:16joe while i was still in her womb she
6:19had a lot of heated arguments with joe
6:21because you know he would not budge he
6:23was stubborn and said uh
6:25no we're not having a child you know you
6:27get rid of this child and you put him up
6:29for adoption because that was a common
6:31thing back then
6:32so she found out that first of all that
6:35to an uh an intermediary a couple
6:38that knew her in her neighborhood they
6:41told her listen we happen to know of a
6:43jewish family in the bronx a couple in
6:45the bronx who were looking for a child
6:48they they're
6:49they were in their 40s at the time my
6:51adoptive parents and she my birth mother
6:54was also about 40 years old when i was
6:56born she was about 42 if i remember
6:58correctly which is a little unusual to
7:01have a child that late at life but
7:03anyway
7:04she they somehow hooked up through an
7:06intermediary she didn't really meet them
7:08but they kind of just through the
7:10intermediary just a caring woman who
7:13tried to
7:14be like a matchmaker she um worked
7:16things out and so the agreement was that
7:19when when
7:20betty was getting ready to give birth to
7:22me she would go to the hospital
7:24and
7:25i would be born and then of course she
7:27would have to leave and then at a later
7:30time a few days later a week later
7:32whatever was pre-arranged the other
7:34couple my adoptive
7:36parents would would pick me up and
7:37that's what happened but but prior to
7:39that
7:41uh prior to that
7:43uh
7:44betty and joe as i was the story is told
7:47to me later
7:48had a lot of battles over me while i was
7:52still in my mother's womb and in 1978
7:56after i was arrested
7:58my
7:59mother gave a story to a reporter which
8:02came out in good housekeeping it was a
8:04lengthy story and it was the story was
8:07titled
8:08first time ever the startling story of
8:11son of sam's real mother and it's my
8:15mother betty falco's story that was she
8:18still carried her her married name even
8:20though tony was long gone and she had a
8:22maiden name broder you know uh but uh
8:27she told the story of how um
8:31she and and joe used to argue and fight
8:34and one day she got so angry she she
8:37jumped on on joe's back i was was
8:39punching him now i want this child i
8:41want to keep this child i want to keep
8:43this job and there was tension and and
8:45the point i'm getting at uh is that
8:50i
8:51years later
8:53i learned that um
8:55through this couple through this book
8:56that was given to me uh called god's
8:59power to change by uh john loren and
9:02paula sanford some friends just got me
9:05this book out of the blue i wasn't
9:06familiar with these people
9:08but
9:09they deal with um i kind of like
9:11deliverances and and people that are
9:13oppressed with you know
9:15by by um
9:17dark spirits and people go through
9:18struggles depression they get they get
9:20behind the nuts and bolts of of why
9:22these things happen and in a chapter
9:25called death wishes i don't have time to
9:27read everything in a chapter called
9:29death wishes it it they they've
9:33people have discovered that even when a
9:36child is in the womb
9:38the child can sense certain things that
9:40are going on loud noises that can sense
9:42rejection it can sense emotional trauma
9:45that the child is not just growing in
9:47there passively but is is aware of the
9:50surroundings it could be aware of
9:52agitate agitating surroundings or happy
9:55surroundings peace and serenity or or
9:57noise and conflict and this affects the
10:00child's development even in the womb
10:02these scientific scientific studies that
10:04have proven this that
10:07you know life doesn't just begin when
10:09the child leaves its mother's womb but
10:11even in the in the stages of development
10:14you know and maybe in the second half of
10:15the pregnancy the child developing in
10:17the womb becomes more aware but if a
10:20person goes if a child goes through a
10:22lot of trauma
10:24even while it's in the womb it has an
10:27effect on the individual and one of the
10:30things it's um
10:33let me just let's read this i think
10:34people would find this absolutely
10:36fascinating i just want to read a few
10:38portions from the book it says in homes
10:40where children are long for and love
10:43reception
10:45begins to heal first frights and nauseas
10:48even in the womb when traumas surround
10:51and invade the womb
10:53fighting bickering loud noises and
10:56hurtful emotions the spirit of the child
10:59cannot overcome the nausea of general
11:02defilement we all suffer by being in in
11:06this second world and then it talks
11:08about
11:09a child that you're dealing with
11:11rejection grows up with death wishes
11:14have always does self-sabotaging
11:16behaviors and things like that so i
11:18believe
11:19and and this is not an excuse for
11:21anything that happened but i believe
11:22that even when i was in the womb
11:25i began to experience trauma that
11:27affected me later in life
11:29now as i was uh
11:31taken home by the berkowitzes and these
11:33were beautiful loving parents you
11:35couldn't ask for a better better parents
11:37than the berkowitz's
11:40when i was about four or five and i
11:42lived in the bronx on on stratford
11:44avenue in the sound view section that's
11:46where i grew up
11:48uh i don't know what the reason why but
11:50i remember being in the living room
11:52and my parents wanted to talk to me
11:54about something serious so i remember i
11:57was kind of nervous and i was sitting
11:58there i was about four or five years old
12:00at the time
12:01and that's when my dad
12:03told me and my mom was looking sitting
12:05on the sofa looking on and my dad was
12:07standing up about
12:09five or six feet away from me and i was
12:11sitting on a chair or whatever
12:13and my dad says we want you to know that
12:16david you were adopted
12:18and i thought to myself okay and i
12:21didn't really i'm i don't really know
12:22what that is and and they explained that
12:25uh
12:26when you were born
12:28your mom died while giving giving birth
12:31to you
12:32and that your dad
12:34realizing he couldn't take care of you
12:36put you up for adoption and so when we
12:38found out that you were available for
12:40adoption
12:42we made the arrangements to adopt you
12:44and we brought you home to us
12:46i remember feeling very numb
12:48and and very shocked because i'm trying
12:50to process all this and again i was just
12:53a little child and i had a lot of
12:55questions i asked about my dad who's my
12:57dad where's my dad and who was my mother
13:00and they said they were very
13:02nice and sweet and soft-spoken i
13:04remember the serious looks on their
13:06faces and they said
13:08david we we don't know we just know that
13:10your mother died while giving birth to
13:12you
13:13and that you know
13:14we took you in because we love you when
13:16we wanted the son and you're our son and
13:18we're glad to have you here and while i
13:20received all that
13:23a part of me as a child thought
13:26my mom died while giving birth
13:28i'm saying
13:30what did i do wrong
13:31did i do something that i made i mean i
13:34don't understand i didn't understand
13:35what how child birth really worked
13:37except that a woman carried a child in
13:39the womb and then eventually the child
13:41came out because i'm only like four or
13:43five
13:44and i'm thinking
13:46my mom died
13:49i must have killed her
13:51what did i do wrong did i maybe i asked
13:54like did i hurt her did it hurt my mom
13:56did i kick her did i come out wrong did
13:59something i scratch her that i poke her
14:02you know what happened he said no no no
14:03no these things happen these things
14:05happen it's just a tragedy don't you
14:07know but i was like
14:09i remember thinking
14:12oh
14:13yes can't be i don't understand i hurt
14:15my mother i don't even know who she was
14:17i mean i had no choice about the matter
14:19but
14:20so over the years
14:22i lived with the thought that somehow
14:25some way
14:27because my mother died while giving
14:29birth to me
14:31that i was responsible for her death i
14:34couldn't fully comprehend these things
14:36at the time
14:37but this is where i was at
14:40you know mentally and emotionally
14:43and i grew up thinking oh my goodness
14:46my mom died because of me i'm a bad boy
14:49look at me i killed my mother i did
14:51something wrong
14:52and
14:53then
14:54um
14:56when he said to me my parents told me
14:57you know my dad didn't want me i felt
15:00like oh there's there's my dad is out
15:02there is it there's a father somewhere
15:04who who's maybe thinking about me maybe
15:07he he wishes he changed his mind he
15:09really wants me to come to him or maybe
15:11he's angry at me and he hates me because
15:13he's you you killed my wife you know how
15:16did you do that you stupid kid i'm gonna
15:18get you and i'm thinking
15:20he might hunt me down and try you
15:22remember i'm just five six seven years
15:24old growing up well to make a long story
15:26short this started a period of
15:30really bad behavior problems for me
15:32first of all i was born i i didn't know
15:35till i was
15:36already in prison and much later in life
15:38i was born with add you know attention
15:41deficit disorder and hyperactivity
15:43disorder i was a wild energetic out of
15:46control kid throwing my toys around
15:49running up and down the room and um
15:52growing up at my i was a uh a thorn in
15:55the flesh to my parents i drove them
15:56crazy i'd be up at five o'clock in the
15:58morning
15:59come out of bed go to my toy box pull
16:02out all my toys wake up my parents what
16:04are you doing up so early i just
16:05couldn't sleep i was always running
16:07around and and that was the story of my
16:09life and uh
16:11in school i because that add was not
16:14really recognized at the time it was
16:16just seen as a behavioral disorder
16:19i was constantly being constantly
16:20getting in trouble in school i was a
16:22terrible student disruptive loud running
16:25up and down
16:26i had so much energy that when school
16:28ended every day at three o'clock when i
16:30was in public school 77 in the bronx
16:33that's not the school is still there but
16:35it goes by a different name now
16:37when i
16:38i would take my books and run home about
16:41five blocks to my house run as fast as i
16:44could i had so much energy in fact one
16:46day i even got hit by a car running
16:48across the intersection of westchester
16:50manor avenue because the light changed
16:52and i was so busy running that the car
16:54hit me and it bumped me and i flew up in
16:55the air turned out i was okay but i mean
16:58my add got me into so much trouble and
17:01made school a living hell i hated school
17:04it seemed like some of the teachers
17:05hated me i was a disciplinary problem uh
17:09one of the teachers wanted to leave me
17:11back and my mother had when i was in
17:12third grade my mother had to go to
17:14school and plead
17:16with the school officials to give me
17:18another chance and they they overruled
17:20the teacher and they allowed me to go to
17:22the fourth grade on a trial basis and i
17:25somehow struggle with the help of my
17:27parents
17:28my adoptive parents to finish public
17:30school then go on into junior high
17:32school
17:32where my mom my adoptive mother will die
17:35not too long after that from cancer
17:40i remember all the struggles i had now
17:42not only in school but my behaviors but
17:45the things i did
17:48the the wild tantrums i had when i was a
17:50kid was like a force would come in me
17:52and i would i would throw myself on the
17:54floor and and and have like these wild
17:57fits break up furniture i broke all my
17:59toys every time i got a new toy within a
18:01few weeks it was broken everything i did
18:03had a self-destructive death wish type
18:07uh behavior pattern to it and of course
18:09no one could ever understand why school
18:11officials when i was in public school
18:13they told my parents listen
18:15you got a problem child here i don't
18:17know what their exact words were but
18:19they met with them in private and said
18:21listen you have to take your child to a
18:23child psychologist if you want your
18:24child to finish school and stay in this
18:27public school
18:28mr mrs berkowitz you have to get try to
18:31get them help so they made arrangements
18:33for me to see a child psychologist and
18:35for two years every saturday afternoon i
18:37hated it on my day off from school my
18:40mom had to take me to manhattan to talk
18:42to a child psychologist by the name of
18:45mrs sosnoff well an elderly lady who was
18:48a nice lady but of course she's no
18:49longer alive and i remember going there
18:53the sessions lasted about an hour
18:56every saturday during school school year
19:00and uh
19:01to try to iron out you know what was
19:03causing me all the problems and of
19:05course nothing was ever accomplished
19:07nothing was ever done but it satisfied
19:09to school officials that okay they're
19:11making an effort and and in the end
19:13eventually i managed to finish public
19:15school sixth grade went into seventh
19:17grade in junior high school and and on
19:19to high school and it really was my dad
19:22i had so many learning disabilities
19:24because i couldn't focus or concentrate
19:26in school i just couldn't
19:28you know i
19:29managed to hang in there but i mean i
19:32was truant a lot because i couldn't
19:33stand sitting in that classroom
19:36and when i was in high school i was
19:37truant a lot because by that time my mom
19:39had my adoptive mother had died and
19:43my dad was at work all the time so i was
19:45a lock locked uh latch key kid i had my
19:48own keys and you know i was 13 14
19:51managing on my own
19:53and uh
19:54anyway it was it was a struggle and i
19:56look back it says
19:58all the times i had periods of
20:00tremendous depression all the times i
20:02would think of of killing myself and
20:04there were times i would look out the
20:05window we lived on the sixth floor and
20:08from my window i could see for miles and
20:10miles it was really a great place to
20:12live in this part of the bronx
20:14and
20:16i could never understand why i was still
20:18like that it wasn't until years later
20:20when i finally understood
20:23you know
20:24that's it i mean it was like a time of
20:26enlightenment which just the light went
20:27off and i began to as i grew older and
20:30reflected on things
20:32i lived with false guilt i was punishing
20:36myself at all my self behavior paths my
20:39self-destructive and self-sabotaging
20:41behavior patterns were because i thought
20:45that i had somehow done something wrong
20:48and caused my mother to die while giving
20:50birth to me so i grew up with this
20:53tremendous self sense of guilt
20:56that
20:57the woman who brought me into the world
20:59somehow i caused her to to die because
21:02that's a tremendous traumatic thing for
21:05a child to be told at age four or five
21:08hey your mom died while giving birth to
21:10you now my parents later on i spoke to
21:12my dad about it and we we talked and we
21:15you know i'm just kind of going through
21:16things very quickly now but
21:18we talked about it and you know my my
21:20parents my adoptive parents meant well
21:22that's what the experts told them to say
21:25to a child you know adoption was common
21:27back then when kids are born out of
21:29wedlock
21:30and
21:31when you ever gonna talk to your child
21:33about adoption they're gonna obviously
21:35have questions the standard answer was
21:38your mom died on giving birth they never
21:40these so-called experts never thought of
21:42the guilt that they would lay up on an
21:45individual by telling them something
21:46like that and i had no conception of
21:48what's going on so little did i know
21:51everything all the reckless things i was
21:53so accident prone i mean i tripped over
21:56everything i crashed into everything i
21:58fell down steps around i rode my bike
22:00off the curb i did all kinds of stuff
22:03and you know it never dawned on me this
22:05this was like a suicide wish this was a
22:08death wish in action my life was one big
22:10death wish
22:11and uh i mean i had many good times
22:13growing up
22:14and a lot of times you know with friends
22:16and everything but there was always that
22:19demon of of of of guilt hanging over me
22:22crushing my spirit oppressing me causing
22:24me to do things that i'd always get in
22:26trouble just when i started to do good
22:28in school i'd find some reason to mess
22:30up just when i was behaving i'd get into
22:33a fight with another kid in the block
22:36anything to mess myself up and i wasn't
22:38doing this consciously but it was a
22:40i
22:41a sense of i have to punish myself i
22:44didn't consciously think that but this
22:46was going on in my subconscious
22:48i don't deserve to live
22:50i don't deserve to live this is my life
22:53is you know i just always putting myself
22:55in predicaments where and this was like
22:58to assuage my guilt which i didn't even
23:00know i had but that was a part of my
23:02life that was such a big part of my life
23:04and so anyway
23:06that was i believe
23:09you know
23:10that spiritually speaking that this type
23:13of
23:14the things that i experienced
23:16the
23:17rejection and the
23:20confusion and the misinformation opened
23:23the door to to
23:25the entry of like demonic control in my
23:28life because as a child i i did a lot of
23:30weird things i craved the darkness i
23:32used to crawl under my bed sometimes for
23:35hours hiding in the dark i used to
23:37tunnel my way into the closet one of the
23:40uh clothing closets and just hide there
23:42my mom used to think i was outside
23:44playing and i'd be it just in the dark
23:46and i you know all my suicidal thoughts
23:49all my
23:50wishes to die thinking about death now i
23:53understand that this was probably all
23:56clustered around that well years later
23:58um after i got out of the army i did
24:02um i found out that there was an
24:05organization
24:06uh called alma adoptees liberty movement
24:10association and uh anyway they help
24:13people to try to lo that have been
24:15adopted to try to locate
24:17their parents or their families and vice
24:20versa they help those who put children
24:22up for adoption and years later want to
24:24find out how those kids are doing they
24:26also so it was a it was a very
24:29interesting group and i went to some of
24:31their meetings and i remember going
24:32there the first time we met in manhattan
24:35and i just have to go through this
24:36quickly i wish i could explain in more
24:38detail but there's time limitations
24:41nevertheless i i joined this group and i
24:43was got out after i got out of the army
24:46because i was searching for my roots by
24:47this time my dad had moved to florida
24:50and all had although i had aunts and
24:52uncles in in other places out in long
24:55island i i never saw them very much so i
24:58was pretty much on my own and um
25:02working as a security guard and just
25:04trying to make ends meet going to going
25:06to college on the g on
25:09the gi bill because i was an army
25:10veteran at this time having finished
25:12three years in the army and being
25:14honorably discharged
25:16anyway
25:19i started to look up
25:21at that the advice of these people
25:23how to find my original birth
25:25certificate which was sealed by the
25:27court and they found out a way to get
25:30to
25:31do that and when i came i came across in
25:34records in manhattan in new york city
25:36the office of bureau of births and
25:39deaths this big big building i went
25:42through there searching searching
25:44searching like a detective and finally i
25:46found the name david richard falco and
25:49when i looked at that name and i was
25:50about maybe 22 at the time 21 i said
25:53wait a minute that's not a jewish name
25:55david richard falco i mean it should be
25:57richard david falcon or richard david
25:58falco's that's not a jewish name so i
26:00told my dad about it i called my dad in
26:02florida said dad listen
26:04i explained what happened i says i want
26:06to know the truth
26:08what am i doing with the name richard
26:09david falco that's not a jewish name who
26:11am i and my dad you were very nice my
26:14dad and i had a good relationship he
26:16told me he says david
26:18here's what happened you were born out
26:20of wedlock and you know
26:22that was hidden at the time and and and
26:25he he
26:26he sent me
26:27the original birth certificate he kept
26:30it in a safe deposit box all those years
26:33so he sent me the original birth
26:34certificate and when i saw the name
26:37falco i was
26:38able to begin my search
26:40when i found out my mother was alive see
26:43originally i was going to think about
26:45maybe trying to find my dad
26:47but
26:48i didn't because i didn't think my
26:49mother was alive then i found out she
26:51never died after all that was just that
26:53was a lie
26:54you know they meant well but that was a
26:56lie and so anyway i i found her
26:59and uh
27:00it's a long story how that happened
27:02and we had a beautiful beautiful meeting
27:05uh unfortunately the media
27:08uh
27:09turned that around to make and people in
27:11the media have said oh it was a terrible
27:13reunion we didn't get along nothing
27:15could be further than the truth we had a
27:17love for one another this was
27:19my mom betty i'm talking about my birth
27:21mother and you know having met her for
27:23the first time when i was about you know
27:2521 22 and finding out i had a half
27:28sister too named roslyn i just i got
27:32she had nieces and and uh uh
27:35her husband and i suddenly had a family
27:38this was the most beautiful thing these
27:40were the sweetest people my mom was the
27:42sweetest lady she was so apologetic she
27:44said listen you know i was just
27:46struggling and i say hey that's okay she
27:48told me the whole story this is how i
27:49know about
27:51joe and the struggles she had you know
27:53carrying me and things like that but i
27:56turned out you know everything turned
27:58out to be okay
28:00the crimes that happened later had
28:01nothing whatsoever to do with her this
28:03was just
28:04psychologists and college professors and
28:07all these so-called experts putting
28:09their opinions into things and making
28:12things seem like
28:13this way when they really would not
28:17unfortunately i was going through many
28:20struggles um i got into some some i was
28:24lonely looking for friends peers i got
28:26into satanism and i always had struggles
28:29with depressions and things so i was
28:31very open and vulnerable and in my um
28:35in the story that my mother uh gave in
28:371978 this is my birth mother i know it
28:40gets a little confusing
28:43it shows it shows something that i i
28:45never saw in myself before and that was
28:48how i was breaking down mentally this
28:50was at the time now of the crimes this
28:52is
28:52when the crimes had started and things
28:55were going on i believe that i was not
28:58only oppressed by the devil so to speak
29:01but also had very serious you know
29:03mental health issues and because um
29:06now this is going back in in
29:081977 76 77
29:11uh
29:12this is just from the article just read
29:14a little bit
29:15shortly after they became acquainted
29:18uh that's me and my sister and mother
29:21you know my birth fam i found my birth
29:22family nat berkowitz called roslyn
29:25rossen was my half-sister a very
29:27beautiful loving woman and he said he oh
29:31the article said he's he felt strongly
29:33that david needed psychiatric help he
29:36had seen david standing in front of a
29:38mirror pounding his head is his head
29:41with his hands he begged rosalind to see
29:44if she could get her brother to go for
29:46help you're talking about me
29:49roslyn tried but was unable to convince
29:52david to get therapy so she offered to
29:54go with him if that would make it easier
29:57but his response was always the same i
30:00tried it and they can't help me i don't
30:03like talking to them soon after that nat
30:06berkowitz called her again with an even
30:08more urgent problem he was upset because
30:11david had just called and told him that
30:14he was going to the doctor that he was
30:16going to die there was something wrong
30:18with his head so here's my adoptive
30:21father in desperation reaching out to my
30:24half-sister whom he never met they just
30:25spoke over the phone he reached out to
30:28her because he was so alarmed at my
30:29behavior and this is going back you know
30:3240 years
30:34when i was about 20 by this time 23
30:37uh 23 years old and uh
30:40the article went on to say roslyn was
30:42stunned she had heard nothing about this
30:45from from richard that's me they called
30:47me richard
30:48she called richard immediately and asked
30:51what is this about your head richard
30:54that's me
30:55yeah yeah i i probably have a tumor or
30:58something i don't have too long to live
31:00i'm i'm going to go to the doctor
31:02rosalind asked if there was any way she
31:05could help no no he assured her that's
31:08me and there was no further discussion
31:10see my birth family called me richard
31:13because they knew me as richard david
31:14falco but my adoptive family call me
31:17david and you know so that's why it's a
31:20little confusing the the changing of the
31:22names and then it goes on to say
31:25then there was the phone conversation
31:27rosalind had with richard when he really
31:30seemed out of it my sister was saying
31:32he's you know i seem so out of it he was
31:35sort of giggling i asked him what was
31:37the matter he said oh nothing they're
31:40out to get me but they're not going to
31:42get me i said who was out to get you he
31:45said people just people i think my phone
31:48is bugged i even think they bugged my
31:51car they're out to get me they're gonna
31:53get me again i asked who what makes you
31:56say this just people just people and he
32:00said
32:00that's me talking that i have to go now
32:03rosten assumed that i was it was just
32:05high on something and and then the
32:07article goes on and on but it shows me
32:09with something i couldn't even see
32:11myself how irrational i had become how
32:13really schizophrenic
32:15and depressive and really my life was
32:18spiraling out of control mentally
32:21spiritually uh i believe
32:24the reasons for this i was under
32:25increasing degrees of demonic control
32:28because at the time i was reading the
32:30satanic bible i was
32:33i went to a park near where i lived in
32:35yonkers i went uh
32:38against wisdom to move to yonkers in the
32:40first place to be near this park called
32:42unto meyer park where i had some friends
32:44there that were into ritual ritual
32:46occultic stuff the park it's a long
32:49story but that park was was dedicated to
32:52to occult uh
32:53to occult things
32:55the owner of the park was once a member
32:57of the golden dawn he was
33:00the man who once owned the park before
33:02it became a city park it was his
33:04personal property his huge beautiful
33:06place with with all kinds of statues and
33:09all kinds of things you know dedicated
33:11to occult occultic stuff
33:14um unto meyer park uh was owned by
33:16samuel uttermeier who was also rubbed
33:19shoulders with alastair crowley well
33:22alex crowley was one of the most evil
33:23men who ever lived the father of
33:25satanism and all on and on well anyway
33:27to make a long story short my life was
33:29really coming apart i was my personality
33:32was disintegrating i began to get be
33:34controlled by other entities that i
33:36opened myself up for but i had a
33:38propensity for that all my life because
33:40of the experiences i had in childhood
33:43the trauma and everything it did open up
33:45the door to demonic strongholds being
33:47set up in my life and so anyway
33:49um the crimes happened there was a
33:52tragedy i was uh arrested
33:55and i was so glad to finally be arrested
33:58because i was in such a state of torment
34:00my life was truly a mess i was i was
34:02able to work and function outwardly but
34:05inwardly
34:06i was just in turmoil and i i was not i
34:09believe in my right mind
34:11um
34:12when i was arrested uh you know the
34:15police asked me or your son is sam i
34:17said
34:18well yes and i was very respectful to
34:21them you know interestingly how the
34:22story changes over time and you see all
34:25these embellishments that come in uh one
34:28of the things that keep getting said
34:29over and over again is whenever this
34:33thing is repeated which is a lot often
34:35when i was first arrested you know the
34:37police asked me you know
34:39are you uh son of sam and i said yes
34:43and i was you know very cooperative and
34:45respectful to them but but i never said
34:47so what took you so long
34:49and over and over again you read
34:51articles and all these professors and
34:54all these people always say they say oh
34:56berkowitz said well so what took you so
34:57long as if i were teasing them but uh
35:00if i would had done that
35:03they would have beat me up pretty good
35:05because i would have been just you know
35:06you can't mouth off to an office like a
35:08wise guy and they would have slapped me
35:10around the fact that everything went so
35:12you know peacefully showed that i nev i
35:14never said that in fact i asked a friend
35:17again maury terry a journalist who had
35:20been following the case from the very
35:22beginning i said maury could you please
35:24check to see from early reports that are
35:26in the papers or in the media if i
35:29actually said so what took you so long
35:31he checked and got back to me a few
35:32weeks later and says no that's not
35:34recorded anywhere that's just an
35:36embellishment that happened and it it it
35:38may sound like a minor thing like so
35:40what's the big deal of that one sentence
35:42but it changes the whole the whole
35:44picture um
35:46it made me look like some kind of smart
35:48smart alec or something like that
35:50another misconception that has come is
35:53the is the so-called mona lisa smile
35:56because uh there were
35:57you know pictures of me taken by the
35:59media and i had like a smirk on my face
36:01so why is he have the smirk
36:03and
36:04it's it's the reason was because i was
36:07uh
36:08i was embarrassed and i was afraid i
36:11mean i was i was arrested and it was it
36:13was a nightmare you know
36:15getting fingerprinted getting booked
36:17going to police headquarters where i was
36:19grilled by detectives for hours and
36:21hours it seemed like the whole day
36:23when they took me out of the precinct in
36:27in brooklyn and they brought me before
36:29the public they did this thing called
36:31the perp walk where
36:33they were you know they walked you
36:34through the streets they purposely
36:35walked around the block so everybody
36:37could look at your face
36:39that was that's still being done today
36:41and there's a lot of issues with that
36:43but nevertheless they took me on the
36:44so-called perp walk but the detectives
36:46but this time there was nothing but
36:48hysteria in the city it was a time of
36:50bedlam and
36:52the detectives told me listen we're
36:54gonna we gotta walk you we gotta walk
36:56you around we're gonna take you into
36:58another van to take you to police
36:59headquarters i was in brooklyn at the
37:01time so they took they said listen the
37:03place is mobbed with people you stay
37:06with us
37:07we think someone's going to try to maybe
37:09shoot you or something like that if we
37:11push you to the ground don't resist just
37:12fall to the ground now i'm i'm terrified
37:15because i don't know i don't know what's
37:16happening i've never experienced
37:18anything like this before i've already
37:19been up for hours without sleep without
37:22anything to eat so they take me out of
37:24the building and into this mob of
37:26nothing but flash bulbs i'd never seen
37:28so many people mostly media people
37:31crowding around it seemed like by the
37:32hundreds if i remember correctly my mind
37:34was in a fog but i still remember and
37:37they were watching me around the block
37:39and i felt it was just snapping pictures
37:41like crazy and yelling at me and people
37:43were screaming in the background
37:45reporters 20 at the time were asking me
37:47questions and i'm like i felt so
37:51embarrassed and plus i was so scared
37:53that one of the things especially men do
37:56when they're embarrassed by something
37:58they
37:59they kind of like smile like you know
38:01you do something dumb and
38:03some people would react oh man i'm so
38:05sorry other times i'll be like oh man i
38:07messed up so
38:09in
38:10it was just a natural reaction to to
38:13have like a spark on my face but it
38:15wasn't but the media and you know other
38:19people have took that the wrong way to
38:21this very day there's because they made
38:23it look like i'm laughing at people but
38:25i wasn't i was really just so
38:27overwhelmed with everything that
38:28happened so embarrassed so confused and
38:31i was afraid that i would you know i
38:33just when you're afraid sometimes you
38:35you smile so okay you know
38:37whatever and
38:39that picture has stuck with me all these
38:42years but it was just another
38:43misconception not that it means anything
38:46but it just shows you how easy it is to
38:49to look at something and get the wrong
38:51impression and all these talking head
38:53experts for to this very day
38:56comment on this say oh this oh that and
38:58you know what it was it was really about
39:00nothing but it it just
39:03that's the way it it it ended you know
39:05so anyway
39:07you know here i am today
39:09all these years later uh
39:13ten years into my prison sentence given
39:15my life to jesus christ
39:17and my life has never been the same
39:19since
39:20uh
39:22the lord god has been with me
39:24uh i grew up in the bronx it was a it
39:26was a great place to grow up even though
39:28i had a lot of a lot of childhood
39:30childhood depression and traumas and bad
39:33experiences in school
39:35uh i was a rough rough kid in the
39:38neighborhood always fighting
39:39but i had friends
39:41i i did good i managed i had a loving
39:44family my adoptive parents always stuck
39:47with me
39:48and you know um i survived i survived i
39:51i think the bronx was the greatest place
39:53to live because uh for my window i could
39:56see for miles i lived on the sixth floor
39:59and i could see from miles and sometimes
40:02i could stick my head out the window
40:04and look down the street on stratford
40:06avenue where i lived and i could see
40:08across the long island sound which is a
40:11a big body of water separating the bronx
40:14from from queens and at night i used to
40:17be able to see the lights from shea
40:18stadium where the new york mets played
40:20the lights would when they had a home
40:22game the lights would go up into the sky
40:24and i remember always looking at that i
40:26was like a real baseball fan growing up
40:28with the yankees and the mets and things
40:30like that i had like in many ways a
40:32normal childhood so
40:35i have a lot of good memories i rode my
40:37bike everywhere
40:38for miles and miles
40:41my bike helped me to keep my sanity and
40:42work off all that the hyperactive i mean
40:45i'll be pedaling my bike from morning
40:47till night so
40:49my life was had its ups and downs
40:51bittersweet adventures and things like
40:53that and tragedy too you know
40:56you know
40:59you know one another misconception is of
41:02course the big story about the dog the
41:05the talking dog first of all as i shared
41:08in
41:09uh
41:10the article that my mother gave to the
41:13good housekeeping back in 1978 where my
41:16sister also spoke
41:17uh
41:18and i had a lot of you know mental
41:21health issues i really was losing my
41:23mind i had become schizophrenic
41:26and uh i believe that was
41:28a result of the demons that were really
41:31inside of me and working and i opened
41:33myself up to
41:35but i had mental health issues all my
41:36life and behavioral issues all my life
41:38including the attention deficit disorder
41:41and hyperactivity which back then as a
41:43child you know wasn't even recognized
41:45you were just i was just seen as a
41:46nuisance and a disciplinary problem and
41:49somebody for teachers to scream at
41:51because of things which i couldn't
41:52control i'm sorry i just couldn't
41:54control that stuff but nevertheless
41:57my mental health began to deteriorate
41:59and at times i was hallucinating and i
42:01did during some occultic rituals use lsd
42:05as well as drink some wine so i had some
42:07maybe after effects of that and i used
42:09lsd when i was in the army too not to
42:11make excuses but this was at the time
42:14some of the things i was dealing with as
42:16as a young man you know just trying to
42:18make it in life
42:19and and just trying to survive and just
42:21doing things that young men usually do
42:24sometimes without thinking you know um
42:30it
42:31because because of the of of of of the
42:34satanism
42:35one of the deities that i used to pay
42:37homage to
42:39was a deity by the name of sauwan
42:41sauwan which i used to call samhain
42:44spelled s-a-m-h-a-i-n
42:46samhain he was a druid druidic deity of
42:50druids which
42:52demanded human sacrifice
42:54and
42:55because i used to seek communication
42:57with this this demonic entity as as dumb
43:00and crazy as it sounds i you know this i
43:02i regret this this was a nightmare but
43:04at the time that's what i was doing so i
43:06was calling upon this
43:08demonic entity this druid spirit and
43:13it was like he was reaching out to me in
43:16my mind
43:17i was really
43:19felt i was really getting messages from
43:20him i was reading literature uh from a
43:24church called the the process church of
43:26final judgment i was
43:28using some of that literature which was
43:30calling on uh to start anarchy and and
43:34try to bring in the end of the world so
43:35so that jesus could come back it was a
43:37whole mix of twisted philosophy but
43:41it was something that was i believe
43:43demonically energized the teachings
43:46which i was reading from also the
43:48satanic the satanic bible and other
43:51things i was trying to do
43:53uh at that time of my life of searching
43:56and everything
43:57these things became very real it was
43:59hard to distinguish
44:01reality from from from that and you know
44:04still struggling to make a living and
44:05work and pay bills and
44:07even though i was getting further and
44:08further behind
44:10when i was arrested i only had 65
44:11dollars to my name so i was on a
44:13collision course with death
44:15um
44:17also
44:18uh
44:20concerning the the so-called dog
44:22um
44:24after i i came to the prison because
44:27that became a big thing you know they
44:28said the the media and everything went
44:30wild the dog made him do it harvey the
44:33dog which was a neighbor's dog named
44:35harvey
44:36had nothing to do with the the uh
44:40the
44:41the crimes it had nothing to do with the
44:43crimes but the media
44:45somehow i you know i don't know they
44:47made it made it like that dog was
44:49talking to me this or that there was a
44:51time of a lot of confusion but i was
44:53trying to let people know in a
44:54roundabout way away it was my fault too
44:58but i was trying to let people know
45:00sam said the dog's name was not sam it
45:03was named harvey
45:04samhain
45:06sarwin was the deity that was
45:08communicating with me and people could
45:11never make that distinction because they
45:12had no understanding of spiritual things
45:14and i couldn't explain it clearly myself
45:16my mind was a mess so that's how that
45:18whole thing started and when i got to
45:20prison uh you know when you when you're
45:22a new person in prison especially when
45:24you have a high profile case like i did
45:26you know a lot of the guards a lot of
45:28the inmates would tease you you know you
45:30have that time kind of thing initiation
45:32phase where you're new jack coming into
45:34prison i came to prison uh with multiple
45:37life sentences
45:38i went to attica prison one of the most
45:41dangerous infamous prisons in the united
45:43states because uh
45:45about seven or eight years earlier they
45:46had a major riot where over 40 people
45:49were killed and so it had a terrible
45:51reputation and and it was a a difficult
45:54atmosphere and so i took a lot of
45:56ribbing from people about the dog
45:58sometimes guys would make blocking
45:59noises some of the guards even just
46:02teasing me would make blocking noises go
46:03oh and you know it's stupid
46:06childish stuff but that's you know how
46:08it is in that kind of life
46:10any but it used to bother me so much and
46:12i got into a few fights over that
46:15and uh
46:17one day i just i said
46:19thinking that
46:20it was kind of like a magical thinking i
46:22think that i was thinking that if i just
46:24said oh
46:25there was no real talking talk or
46:26anything like that that all the
46:29everything would just go away so i i
46:32said that to somebody who wrote that to
46:34somebody in the media and
46:36um
46:37it made it like the whole story was made
46:39up but it wasn't i can't i it wasn't
46:42really
46:43made up i mean i there was an actual
46:45demon by the name of samhain
46:48that that i was communicating with i
46:51regret to say that sounds very dumb but
46:53at the time i really believed that stuff
46:55you know and i was really brainwashed
46:57and and i believe i was under a degree
46:59of hypnotic control this is not to make
47:01an excuse for anything but at the time
47:03of my life that's how messed up i was i
47:05still even in my
47:06even when i was an addict i still had
47:08some occult books and i was practicing
47:10rituals of myself very dumb and foolish
47:12things but that's what i was doing uh in
47:15my ignorance and in my rebellion and
47:17just trying to survive i only wanted to
47:19survive so i figured that by saying oh
47:21there was no dog i just made the whole
47:22thing up the whole thing would go away
47:26but really it was confusion to begin
47:28with because there really wasn't a dog
47:30it was a demon but no one was able to
47:33make that distinction and so for years
47:35and even till today there's been a lot
47:37of misconceptions about that and it'll
47:39probably always be there because it's
47:40too complicated to figure out people
47:42listen thinking oh yeah sure i just you
47:45know but that's the way it was it was
47:47just a
47:48um
47:49a lot of confusion yeah
47:52so the dog parking wasn't had nothing to
47:54do with anything well it was annoying at
47:56times because
47:57but it was annoying at times but it you
47:59know it wore me down but the barking dog
48:03wore me down and now at times it was
48:04annoying and uh
48:07but that that i'm sorry so tell us that
48:10it was your neighbor that had a parking
48:12dog
48:12well there was a number of them this is
48:14this has been a thing even going back to
48:16the bronx but it that the
48:18the the barking dork had nothing to do
48:21with the crimes that was just uh
48:24once i got into that media cycle of
48:26whatever just got built up to some
48:28dramatic thing when really it was just
48:29uh the two stories got mixed together
48:32yeah right right my communication with
48:34demons back and forth which uh i was
48:37under a spell
48:38and again it's not to make any excuses
48:40for anything but that's the way the
48:42state of my mind was at the time and
48:44then the actual marking of neighbors
48:46dogs which was annoying but that was
48:48something altogether different and it
48:50just melded together in one ball of
48:52confusion and it's been that way ever
48:53since a ball of confusion and people
48:55don't know what to make of it but you
48:57know it's not a big issue anymore i mean
49:00it's just nothing really it's about
49:01nothing but i don't know for some reason
49:04people become obsessed they lock into
49:05that dog thing and then and movies have
49:08been made up about it and all kinds of
49:11books novels crime novels have that you
49:13know so that's just part of the history
49:15that's be there forever but the reality
49:18is that had nothing to do with the
49:20crimes that i was
49:21communicating i'm sorry to say with with
49:24demonic entities and my ignorance and my
49:26foolishness and i was getting messages i
49:29thought i was getting messages in my
49:30mind
49:32you know from from these entities and so
49:34forth and so
49:35that was
49:37the real deal and that's you know
49:42well i had you know even as a
49:45child as you know i've always been
49:47fascinated with like
49:48dark things
49:49and uh
49:51i believe that because uh the
49:53experiences i had the traumas i went
49:55through as a child thinking i caused the
49:57death of my mother
49:59uh thinking that i have a father out
50:01there who hated me because i took his
50:03wife's life somehow did something dumb
50:06and on and on and self-punishment and
50:08all these cravings for darkness and and
50:12um
50:13you know that that followed me all my
50:15all my life even as an adult
50:18i was
50:19as a teenager and then even as an adult
50:21i was fascinated by certain horror
50:23movies rosemary's baby and other things
50:26all seemed to
50:28i was always drawn to those things and
50:30it was um
50:32you know coming to prison the same thing
50:33i still had my occult literature and i
50:36was just really a lost a lot lost lonely
50:38soul
50:39and 10 years into my prison sentences
50:42i'm i'm struggling you know to survive
50:44day by day along comes his fellow
50:48ricky ricky
50:50and a younger man and he approaches me
50:54one day while i'm walking in the prison
50:55yard
50:56and he says
50:58you know hey um your name's dave right
51:01and i said yeah he says well my name's
51:03ricky and i'd like to introduce myself i
51:05said yeah so what's going on i looked at
51:07him suspiciously because in prison
51:09environment
51:10guys that don't know each other usually
51:12don't just walk up to one another it's
51:14just a way of life in the prison and he
51:17said listen
51:18i i know i know about your case and
51:20everything but i i i
51:23would like to just tell you that jesus
51:25christ loves you and he's got a plan of
51:26purpose for your life
51:28and i said yeah i was like skeptical i
51:29said okay i've heard that before but
51:31there's no way god could love me i've
51:33done too many things that are bad too
51:34many things that are evil there's no way
51:36god could forgive me he says no david
51:38you're wrong god
51:40wants to forgive you and he's he sent me
51:42here to tell you that and he's got a
51:43plan of purpose for your life i'm
51:46thinking like oh really and he said yeah
51:48he said well listen i see you sometimes
51:50work out with the weights and sometimes
51:52you walk around i'd like to just be your
51:54friend and maybe we can hang out
51:55together you know i'm new here and uh he
51:58had been doing time
52:00prior you know in other prisons but he
52:02was transferred here so uh he seemed
52:04like a nice guy and before you knew we
52:06were hanging out together and we'd walk
52:08the yard together and he began to tell
52:11me as the days went by that he was a
52:13christian that he gave his life to jesus
52:15while he was locked up in another
52:17facility
52:18and uh
52:20he would share a little of the
52:21scriptures with me a little bit about
52:22his life but we just you know piled
52:24around walked around
52:26and um
52:27and then he gave me a pocket bible and
52:29he told me dave i know you're jewish so
52:32maybe you'd like to read the psalms it
52:33was a gideon pocket testament which
52:36which had the psalms in the back so you
52:38had the new testament and the psalms and
52:40he says look i know you're jewish and i
52:42think you'd like to read the psalms and
52:45i so
52:46uh i started to read them and i started
52:48to read about king david
52:50and because i like to read and i started
52:52reading about king david and i saw all
52:54the struggles king david went on with
52:56his life the pain crying out to god and
52:59i kind of started to relate to that
53:02because i'm going through so much pain
53:03and trauma and uh
53:05and the story is so my story is so
53:07involved so complex you could never tell
53:09it in one sitting it would take days
53:11weeks months to
53:12unravel the whole thing
53:14i'm
53:15reading the psalms sometimes at night
53:17before i go to sleep and i find i start
53:19to cry
53:20you know
53:21and my and i don't know why but then one
53:24day after i've known ricky maybe a month
53:28maybe a little longer
53:30because this was a long time ago now
53:31this was over 25 years ago now
53:34um
53:36i was reading psalm 34
53:38and i read the scripture verse 6 where
53:40it says this poor man cried
53:42and hurt him and saved him out of all
53:44his troubles and suddenly once again it
53:46was around midnight i was alone in my
53:48cell with my little reading lamp on
53:50and i read that psalm and i started to
53:52cry
53:53and i
53:55i just shut off my light because i
53:56didn't want any of the other inmates in
53:58the gallery to see me crying and i was
54:00getting all in individual cells
54:02and i had this tremendous
54:04they got this tremendous urge to get
54:06down on my knees
54:08and to talk to god
54:10and so i did in the darkness of my cell
54:13i got down on my knees on the concrete
54:15floor a cold concrete floor
54:18and i like a little kid i put my hands
54:20on the on the bunk at the
54:22typical prison bunk bed
54:24and i just began to pull my heart out to
54:26the lord and i was crying like a baby
54:29but i was talking quietly because i
54:30didn't want anyone else to hear me but i
54:31was pouring my heart out to the lord and
54:33i was telling saying god jesus whoever
54:36you are
54:37i'm so sorry for everything that
54:38happened i i i hurt so many people i
54:41hurt my family and i brought so much
54:44pain to people and on and on i just
54:45poured my heart out to him you know
54:48crying as if i was crying for my mother
54:51when she died
54:52and
54:54maybe i was on my knees 20 minutes a
54:55half hour
54:57i don't know and then i got up off my
54:59knees and i felt like a tremendous load
55:01had lifted off me and and i just got on
55:04my
55:05bunk on top of my bunk and staring at
55:08the ceiling for a while and i drifted
55:09off to sleep next morning i woke up and
55:12went about my business going out to
55:14breakfast the doors open and start the
55:16usual day in prison
55:18and um
55:21uh a couple of days later i met i meet
55:23my friend rick in the in the yard
55:25and because we live in different cell
55:27blocks so we could only meet when we
55:28have yard time recreation time in the
55:30yard and we'd hang out and talk and
55:32maybe lift weights or walk around
55:34and so we would that day we were sitting
55:36on a bench at the end of the yard
55:38and we're just sitting there talking and
55:40i says hey ricky guess what i did the
55:42other day and he said what'd you do i
55:44said well remember how you've been
55:46telling me you know to ask jesus to
55:48forgive me of my sins and to come into
55:50my heart and things like that he goes
55:52yeah i said well i did that
55:54and he looked at me he was like shocked
55:55he goes
55:56you what and i was i was surprised by
55:59his reactions i said well you know you
56:00told me that to
56:02that i should ask jesus to forgive me of
56:04my sins that i should put my trust in
56:06him and things like that and i said i
56:09did and he says are you serious he was
56:11so excited i i are you you tell on the
56:14level and i said well yeah yeah what's
56:16the big deal he says oh man he jumped up
56:18and he jumped off the bench he started
56:20to jump up and down like a kid screaming
56:23hallelujah praise the lord i was so
56:25embarrassed i said rich what are you
56:26doing what are you doing he says dave
56:28don't you understand you know what this
56:30means i said what does it mean he says
56:31you've been born again you've been born
56:34again i said i have he says yeah yeah
56:37and i didn't know what was going on he
56:39was so excited he said listen i know you
56:41don't understand it right now but one
56:43day you'll understand all these things
56:45he says you got jesus in your heart now
56:48and you you want my words your life is
56:50never going to be the same so i says uh
56:52okay but you know he was right i mean i
56:55couldn't i started to read the bible i
56:58couldn't put it down i started to go to
57:00the chapel and the chaplain gave me a
57:01whole bible he knew it all the new
57:03testament was like a study bible as a
57:05gift brand new study bible and i just
57:07couldn't put the bible down i would read
57:09it every chance i got whenever i'd come
57:11for my work assignment wherever i had
57:13free time and i was in my cell i'd open
57:15up my bible and read and it really
57:17started a whole new life i met
57:20other men in the chapel who you know you
57:22know glad to see me and welcome me and
57:25i began to fellowship with other
57:26christians who were fellow inmates like
57:28myself
57:29and met the chaplain and spoke with him
57:32and prayed with him and
57:35the rest is history more than about 27
57:3828 years have gone by since i was on my
57:41knees that one night asking jesus to
57:43forgive me and to come into my life not
57:45even sure what i was saying
57:47you know
57:48not even sure what would happen
57:50and uh ricky was right well shortly
57:53after that a few months after that you
57:55know ricky and i used to go to the
57:56chapel together but he transferred out
57:58one day i went to the yard and i didn't
58:00see him we were supposed to meet in the
58:02yard after our work assignments were
58:03done he wasn't there so i asked a couple
58:06of friends from his cell block hey you
58:08guys said ricky this old man ricky left
58:10the day before on a transfer he's gone i
58:13said oh man i couldn't believe it
58:15because he was almost finished with his
58:17time he was only doing a 10 year
58:18sentence and only had a brief period of
58:20time left to do so he went down to a
58:23medium security facility to finish up
58:25his last year or whatever and i never
58:28saw him again but his words have always
58:30rung true
58:31i look back today
58:33the testimony of what god has done in my
58:35life has really gone to so many places
58:38throughout the world i've met friends
58:40from all walks of life
58:42my testimony has gone to many prisons
58:44and jails giving giving men and women
58:48a hope you know that that god forgives
58:51sins that he does redeem people that
58:53even if you're in prison god will not
58:55reject you that he's come to seek and
58:57save those who were lost
58:59and that he's not willing in any should
59:01perish but that all should come to
59:02repentance and god's hands of mercy is
59:05stretched wide open god says come to me
59:07all you that labored a heavy laden i'll
59:09give you rest and i realized i went
59:11through life
59:12without any rest i had no peace of mind
59:15my life was a story of again you know
59:17triumph and tragedy pain and and
59:20everything and uh
59:22even though i had a lot of adventures in
59:24life and a lot of did a lot of good
59:25things there was still a lot of bad but
59:27i never had that peace i was a restless
59:29soul i was a lost and lonely soul
59:32and
59:34never felt like i really belonged
59:35anywhere never felt that i had a real
59:37family and
59:39self-destructive
59:40behavior patterns and all that stuff
59:42that i carried from childhood was always
59:45always self-sabotaging whatever i was
59:47doing but finally i began to have peace
59:50i began to have joy my life began to
59:52change for the better and now i look
59:54back
59:55at all that happened and you know i
59:56tried my best in this interview with
59:58this brief period of time to explain
1:00:00everything i realize it's just too big
1:00:02of a story and probably
1:00:04need to
1:00:05you know can't can't really unravel
1:00:08everything and the lord says david
1:00:10forget about it don't even look back you
1:00:12know just keep your hands
1:00:14to the plow so to speak and just go
1:00:16forward he says i have i have made all
1:00:19things new in your life and i just like
1:00:21to read a couple of scriptures that are
1:00:22so meaningful to me uh over the years
1:00:26that have brought me so much
1:00:27encouragement and one of them is um
1:00:30in jeremiah chapter 29
1:00:33um
1:00:35uh
1:00:36which verse beginning at verse 11
1:00:38jeremiah 29 beginning in verse 11 which
1:00:41says for i know the thoughts that i
1:00:43think toward you says the lord thoughts
1:00:46of peace and not of evil to give you a
1:00:50expected and to give you hope and
1:00:52expected end
1:00:53and
1:00:54then shall you call upon me and ye shall
1:00:57go and pray unto me and i will hearken
1:00:59unto you and you shall seek me and find
1:01:02me when you search for me with all your
1:01:03heart and i will be found by you says
1:01:06the lord and i will turn away your
1:01:08captivity and even though he was talking
1:01:10to the israelites specifically back then
1:01:12i believe this promise is for every
1:01:14person that calls upon the name of the
1:01:16lord be they jew or gentile or whatever
1:01:18nation they come from because the bible
1:01:20says whosoever shall call upon the name
1:01:22of the lord shall be saved and so
1:01:27god brought me out of captivity the same
1:01:29promise that he promised to the
1:01:31israelites he promises to every man and
1:01:33woman throughout the ages of time
1:01:35whoever puts their trust in the lord
1:01:37jesus christ not only are they going to
1:01:39be receive forgiveness of sins but
1:01:41they're going to start a whole new life
1:01:43because the bible says in ii corinthians
1:01:455 17 therefore if any man be in christ
1:01:49he's a new creation all things have
1:01:52passed away behold all things have
1:01:54become new and truly the old things even
1:01:57though i still have memories of them in
1:01:59god's eyes those all things have passed
1:02:02away another scripture that i love so
1:02:04much that has brought me so much comfort
1:02:07and it's so very special for me also in
1:02:09the old testament um is in micah chapter
1:02:13seven it's a little maybe a little known
1:02:15passage to some but micah chapter 7
1:02:18verses 18 to 20 it's one of the most
1:02:21beautiful scriptures that uh someone
1:02:23like me could ever ever read and it says
1:02:26as follows
1:02:28who is a god like unto thee that pardons
1:02:31iniquity and passes by the transgression
1:02:34of the remnant of his heritage
1:02:36he that's the lord retains not his anger
1:02:39forever because he delights in mercy
1:02:43he will turn again he will have
1:02:45compassion on us he will subdue our
1:02:48iniquities and will cast all their sins
1:02:51into the depths of the sea
1:02:53and thou will perform the truth to jacob
1:02:56and the mercy to abraham which thou has
1:02:59sworn to our fathers from days of old
1:03:02and basically what that's saying is god
1:03:04is saying to say to me he's saying to
1:03:07you he's saying to everybody that that
1:03:10that puts their trust in the lord jesus
1:03:12christ he says
1:03:14i delight in showing mercy so all your
1:03:17sins all your iniquities i'm throwing
1:03:19them into the sea and they will never be
1:03:21remembered anymore for someone like me
1:03:24with such a
1:03:26a bad background that brings tremendous
1:03:28comfort comfort and hope yeah
1:03:31that brings tremendous comfort and hope
1:03:33and i can go on and on this is just just
1:03:35a few uh a small amount of scriptures
1:03:37that that i have that
1:03:40you know people would just
1:03:41i mean they're so beautiful they're so
1:03:43powerful they're so they're so full of
1:03:45hope and everything and um
1:03:48and also another one is lamentations
1:03:52this is written by the prophet jeremiah
1:03:54it's right after the book of jeremiah in
1:03:56the old testament it's lamentations
1:03:58chapter 3 verses 21-26
1:04:02some of the most beautiful verses
1:04:04passage of scripture a person can ever
1:04:06read
1:04:07this i recall to mind therefore have i
1:04:10hope
1:04:11it is of the lord's mercies that we are
1:04:13not consumed because his compassions
1:04:16fail not
1:04:18they are new every morning great is thy
1:04:21faithfulness
1:04:22the lord is my portion says my soul
1:04:25therefore i will hope in him
1:04:28the lord is good unto those that wait
1:04:30for him to though to the soul that seeks
1:04:34him it is good that a man should both
1:04:36hope and quietly wait for the salvation
1:04:39of the lord and here we see the same
1:04:41thing that we read in micah that that
1:04:42god is a god of compassion because it
1:04:45said that in micah chapter 7 and we read
1:04:49here also that he delights in mercy and
1:04:51that he's
1:04:53it's good you know he's
1:04:55his compassions never fail it's good for
1:04:57the soul and and god has been good to my
1:05:00soul god has been good to my soul so
1:05:02these are scriptures that i use over and
1:05:05over to comfort encouraging myself as
1:05:07well as others because i share my faith
1:05:10with other men in here and uh
1:05:13god has given me a whole new life
1:05:15you give me a hold of life there's so
1:05:17much more i wish i could share
1:05:19uh but uh what about that last one uh
1:05:22you know the future what's the future oh
1:05:24you're hoping you know what what's the
1:05:26future about
1:05:28thank you
1:05:32okay here please
1:05:33okay this is something
1:05:37uh
1:05:38you know you know one of the ways i
1:05:40spend my time is i do a lot of writing
1:05:42i'm a prolific writer i have a
1:05:45typewriter
1:05:46but even with penn i i do a lot of
1:05:48writing i have an online journal i uh
1:05:52write messages for churches youth groups
1:05:54things like that so and i've been doing
1:05:56that for years and uh
1:05:58earlier today and i was thinking about
1:06:00this interview that i was going to do
1:06:02here
1:06:03and i just put these words together on
1:06:05my typewriter and typed them up right
1:06:07after breakfast this morning and it's
1:06:09called going back in time
1:06:12and it it talks about
1:06:14really
1:06:15my future hope desires and dreams and
1:06:19i just want to i'd just like to just
1:06:21read this i just because i wrote this
1:06:23just this morning
1:06:25november 10th 2015 8 45 am
1:06:28going back in time
1:06:30i wish i could go back to my childhood
1:06:32days i wish i could begin my life all
1:06:35over again this time wiser and more
1:06:38aware of life and the complexities of
1:06:41life reflecting on things my life has
1:06:44been too complicated much of what i
1:06:47experienced in life even since childhood
1:06:50has made me sad and weary but it is all
1:06:53in the past and now by the grace of god
1:06:57it is time to move forward i know in my
1:06:59heart that good days are here now and
1:07:02better days are ahead because god is
1:07:05with me and all my sins and wrongdoings
1:07:08and failings are
1:07:10as christians often say quote under the
1:07:13blood of jesus
1:07:14end quote
1:07:15truly my life is a tale of two cities a
1:07:19life of pain
1:07:20torment guilt and anguish
1:07:23yet a life of triumph hope and
1:07:25forgiveness
1:07:26for me
1:07:27god has made all things go
1:07:30all things new for me god has made all
1:07:32things new as the populist scripture
1:07:35verse declares
1:07:37weeping may endure for a night
1:07:39but joy
1:07:40comes in the morning
1:07:42psalm 30 verse 5
1:07:44you know
1:07:45this is a new season in my life you know
1:07:48a time to go
1:07:49to keep going forward by the grace of
1:07:51god
1:07:52to thank god for his mercy to know that
1:07:55really it's it's by his mercy grace that
1:07:58my life did not end prematurely i could
1:08:01have died when
1:08:03uh i did a lot of wild things as a kid
1:08:05you know jumping through subway cars and
1:08:08running up and down the streets i was
1:08:09pretty wild running through rooftops
1:08:11over rooftops
1:08:13doing things
1:08:14the kids adventurous kids in the bronx
1:08:16used to do
1:08:17and i could have died when the police
1:08:19surrounded me with guns pointed at me
1:08:21from every direction
1:08:23one move and they and they could have i
1:08:25should have been blown into eternity i
1:08:27could have died when another inmate
1:08:28tried to slash my throat uh back in 1979
1:08:32just just to make a name for himself and
1:08:34that was one of my the best prison
1:08:36experiences i ever had and um
1:08:39i you know i could have lost my life to
1:08:41do sickness disease or whatever else but
1:08:43the lord kept me alive for a purpose i
1:08:45got the chance to make peace with nisa
1:08:48moskowitz and for a time
1:08:50we were corresponding and she wanted to
1:08:52start a whole new thing on forgiveness
1:08:54and healing for the whole nation it
1:08:56never worked out that way but god saw
1:08:58the intentions of her heart i believe he
1:09:00he recognized that you know and uh so
1:09:04i've had a lifetime of experiences good
1:09:06and bad horrific and sad yet yet
1:09:09something's joyous and wonderful
1:09:13i'm very active in sharing my faith
1:09:16in writing spiritual things and i want
1:09:19to continue to do that reach this whole
1:09:21nation
1:09:22with the news that jesus christ loves
1:09:24people that he truly has a plan a
1:09:26purpose for their life he wants them to
1:09:29give him all their sins
1:09:31and he will forgive them of those sins
1:09:33and cleanse them and give them a whole
1:09:35new life of redemption and hope a little
1:09:37life that will have a lot of
1:09:38difficulties and challenges because as a
1:09:40christian i experienced a lot of
1:09:42struggles and day-to-day
1:09:44you know
1:09:45testings of my faith and everything
1:09:47which is normal but god
1:09:49keeps me on course and
1:09:51i know my hope is that one day i see the
1:09:54lord jesus christ face to face i'm going
1:09:56to look into his eyes and say thank you
1:09:58jesus thank you so much for saving a
1:10:01wretch like me
1:10:02you know and then my message has always
1:10:04been that if he could do it for someone
1:10:06like me who was one of the chief of
1:10:08sinners he could do it for anybody who
1:10:10just put their trust in him
1:10:16from time to time you know because
1:10:17people ask about the situation with
1:10:20parole
1:10:21when i was sentenced in three different
1:10:23counties there was queens brooklyn and
1:10:25the bronx in new york city three
1:10:27different counties
1:10:28uh i was given multiple life sentences
1:10:31by all the different judges and one of
1:10:33the judges said to me that we're going
1:10:36to give you a sentence that's going to
1:10:38hopefully you're going to take your last
1:10:40dying breath in prison at the time i was
1:10:43just a lost soul i didn't care my life
1:10:45was a mess i was really in a bad frame
1:10:48of mind and and uh
1:10:51you know so i
1:10:52went through that it was all like a fog
1:10:55and he ended up coming to prison but as
1:10:57it turned out the way the laws work
1:10:59they were not really allowed to sentence
1:11:01me to consecutive sentences at the time
1:11:03because that was not as of yet on the
1:11:05books so it it it consolidated by itself
1:11:09into one 25 year to life sentence
1:11:12and which means that because it's one 25
1:11:16year life sentence even though the judge
1:11:18judges specified otherwise the
1:11:20limitations of the law at the time
1:11:23made it consolidated everything so in
1:11:26other words if there were six life
1:11:27sentences it became one
1:11:30just on paper just in a legal sense
1:11:34so
1:11:35but because of that
1:11:36after 25 years
1:11:38i went to the first parole board of 25
1:11:41years
1:11:42which is because it's 25 year-to-life
1:11:44sentence
1:11:45and the parole board of course has
1:11:47authority to keep hitting you with more
1:11:49time
1:11:51giving you more time if they feel you're
1:11:53not eligible for release now of course
1:11:55in my case because everything was so
1:11:57extreme and the case is so serious you
1:12:00know they will keep hitting me and
1:12:01sometimes i went to the parole board and
1:12:03sometimes i didn't but anyway it would
1:12:06have made no difference but i sent them
1:12:08i written them letters you know
1:12:10apologizing and my letters were very
1:12:12remorseful they took note of that
1:12:14and they took note of the fact that i'm
1:12:16doing well in prison today and so forth
1:12:18but because of the seriousness nature of
1:12:20the crime they keep giving me more time
1:12:23and i have another pro board coming up
1:12:25which is every two years as a matter of
1:12:27routine but i feel that i didn't go to
1:12:30the last one and i don't believe i
1:12:32should go to this one uh i've accepted
1:12:36uh
1:12:37my uh sentence i've come to terms with
1:12:40everything and you know
1:12:42my fellow inmates you know meaning well
1:12:44because they like me they the guys in
1:12:46here like me i'm just one of the fellows
1:12:49you know and they try to encourage me
1:12:50says dave you need to go to the parole
1:12:52board you need you need to give it a
1:12:53shot you never know you never know i
1:12:55understand what they're saying and they
1:12:56and they mean well and technically
1:12:59i could go not that would make any
1:13:01difference i could go but
1:13:03i feel that
1:13:06um i have to think of not myself because
1:13:10sure i would love to get out of prison
1:13:11that would be my hope and dream i have a
1:13:13lot of good plan plans if i would ever
1:13:15get out of prison i would try to go all
1:13:17over churches youth group groups sharing
1:13:20my testimony juvenile detention centers
1:13:22trying to reach young people on and on
1:13:25if i had an opportunity to um
1:13:28to to get out one day that would be of
1:13:30course i'm thinking in my own mind that
1:13:31would be a wonderful thing because i
1:13:32have so many good plans good wonderful
1:13:35plans
1:13:36to touch this world for christ and to
1:13:38give up messages of hope as well as give
1:13:41young people a cautionary tale but all
1:13:43that aside i have to look at you know
1:13:46the victims of the crime and the fact
1:13:48that
1:13:49these people wherever they are and
1:13:51whoever they are i don't know i'm not in
1:13:53contact with any of them and i'm not
1:13:55allowed to be but i always have to think
1:13:57how would how do they see things
1:14:00as a christian i'm taught you know from
1:14:02the scriptures to put others first to
1:14:04consider others better than yourselves
1:14:06and better than yourself and to think of
1:14:08yourself last
1:14:10think of others first in the world
1:14:12it's usually me myself and i and others
1:14:15second but see
1:14:17christ has taught me to to
1:14:19to
1:14:20value and respect other people even
1:14:22above myself and and as
1:14:25i think about this i'm thinking
1:14:27these these these people are some of
1:14:29them are still
1:14:30around some of the parents who've lost a
1:14:32loved one and or siblings that are still
1:14:35around
1:14:36and
1:14:37i know that such a thing would really
1:14:39upset them would really just it bother
1:14:42probably bothers them agitates them and
1:14:44i
1:14:45say well you know i can't i can't do
1:14:48anything to cause these people any more
1:14:50pain or heartache or grief so let me
1:14:51just
1:14:52deal
1:14:53accept the sentence
1:14:55realize i as much as i wish i could go
1:14:57back and change things i cannot
1:14:59i know that god has forgiven me even if
1:15:02people have not and and now by the grace
1:15:04of god i'm moving on with my life parole
1:15:06is not even an issue anymore i mean it
1:15:08comes up in the media because there's
1:15:11always a scheduled hearing every two
1:15:12years and that'll probably go on
1:15:14indefinitely but i've already come made
1:15:17peace with the whole matter i said you
1:15:19know what my life is in god's hands and
1:15:21i'm
1:15:23by the grace of god i'm doing a lot of
1:15:24good things positive things today
1:15:27you know let me be thankful for that and
1:15:30uh i don't want to do anything that
1:15:31would cause any of the
1:15:33families or the surviving victims who
1:15:36were injured any more pain any more
1:15:39suffering you know let them live their
1:15:42lives as best as they could and let them
1:15:45have the satisfaction of knowing you
1:15:47know i'm not going anywhere i'm not
1:15:48going to bother you you know
1:15:51that type of thing i think that's the
1:15:53best way i think that's taking the
1:15:54higher road even though by rights i
1:15:57could try to get parole i can go to the
1:16:00parole board every every couple of years
1:16:02whenever they have their hearings i can
1:16:04come with all paperwork
1:16:06letters of support those things i have
1:16:09never done i have never asked any
1:16:11christian anybody or any church pastor
1:16:14or anything to just to uh
1:16:17for letters of support or things like i
1:16:19don't believe in doing that that's fine
1:16:20for other
1:16:21men that want to you know do that but i
1:16:23feel god is leading me to just
1:16:25just let things be as much as possible
1:16:28you know and i i feel that gives
1:16:30those people more peace and that's
1:16:32what's important it's not my feelings
1:16:34it's not my wants but their wants and
1:16:36desire and if it gives them more peace
1:16:39to to to see me
1:16:41still locked up then i want them to have
1:16:44that peace if i can give them that much
1:16:46i'll give them that much i don't want to
1:16:48have to to worry
1:16:50be in agitation have emotional pain and
1:16:52trauma or wondering oh is he gonna get
1:16:55out and you know this no
1:16:58like jesus said to the storm you know
1:17:00peace be still relax i'm not going
1:17:03anywhere
1:17:04that's it
1:17:07i feel that was the higher road higher
1:17:09road to take
1:17:10you know
1:17:14well in prison you know because now i've
1:17:16been as i said in prison for 39 years
1:17:19and i'll probably be in prison for many
1:17:21many more years prob maybe for the rest
1:17:23of my life
1:17:25or unless jesus comes and takes me out
1:17:27of here um
1:17:29i'm facing you know many more years of
1:17:31incarceration and i'll talk about that
1:17:34in a minute but one of the
1:17:36earlier experiences i had when i came to
1:17:38prison i mentioned earlier about how
1:17:40guys used to tease me about the dog and
1:17:43things like that and i tried to just end
1:17:45that by saying oh there there was none
1:17:46of that it was just a lot of
1:17:47misconceptions but one day
1:17:50in 1979 is what often happens in prison
1:17:53especially in the maximum security
1:17:55prisons is violent inmate to inmate
1:17:57violence which of course is a common
1:17:59thing and so one inmate whatever reason
1:18:02i guess to make a name for himself uh he
1:18:05fashioned a razor to some kind of stick
1:18:08or something and reached through the
1:18:10bars when i was doing my my porter's
1:18:13work i was like a custodian and i was
1:18:16mopping and cleaning and i got near his
1:18:18bars and he reached out and he slashed
1:18:20my throat and it turns out he opened up
1:18:23the whole
1:18:24side with the razor the razor was buried
1:18:26to the hill practically and opened up
1:18:29the whole side of the left side of my
1:18:32neck and next thing you know so i got
1:18:34this gaping hole in my neck and i'm like
1:18:36i'm on the gallery i'm like at this time
1:18:38i was about i think about 26 years old
1:18:4025 26 years old i was a new jack i'd
1:18:43only been in prison for maybe a couple
1:18:44of years at the most so i
1:18:47i i was i was like okay i i
1:18:50i didn't feel any pain just a little
1:18:52sting it was very unusual experience and
1:18:55i realized oh man this guy really cut me
1:18:57because i put my fingers there and my
1:18:58fingers went right inside
1:19:00inside the neck i know it sounds gross
1:19:02but that's the whole side of my neck
1:19:04opened up so i walk out to where the
1:19:06officers are sitting because they have
1:19:08their little control booth there where
1:19:09they look through the windows to watch
1:19:11down the galleries and i'm standing
1:19:14there says listen uh i've been cut and i
1:19:17actually had a smile kind of like a
1:19:18smile on my face and says hey i guess
1:19:20somebody doesn't like me and the office
1:19:22is like oh my goodness so
1:19:25they walk me across prison grounds to
1:19:27the uh infirmary i have to go to
1:19:29infirmary now to be stitched up because
1:19:31i've got this massive wound
1:19:33and the office is like in a state of
1:19:35shock so this one officer was officer
1:19:37montgomery
1:19:39he walks alongside me and we we go to if
1:19:41we go down the steps down the steps
1:19:44outside into the other building to walk
1:19:46me through and there's other inmates in
1:19:47the hallway who see me you know they
1:19:49know they know me because we're they're
1:19:51working in the same building as me i
1:19:53said oh my god dave what happened to you
1:19:55is that someone tried to take me out you
1:19:57know
1:19:57and a typical prison thing you know and
1:20:01i walked all the way to the infirmary i
1:20:03didn't lose that much blood amazingly
1:20:05and i sat down in on the
1:20:08table there you know the the doctor when
1:20:10the doctor examines you and the doctor
1:20:12comes out and looks at me and says oh
1:20:14man
1:20:15and he's looking at the wound he's got
1:20:16to stitch you up i was fully conscious i
1:20:19as i said i didn't lose much blood even
1:20:21though the whole side of my neck was
1:20:22opened up and he says i can't believe
1:20:25they missed you he missed your carotid
1:20:27artery because it was he saw i guess you
1:20:29could see all the veins in the mate that
1:20:31particular artery right there he says
1:20:33they missed your carotid artery he said
1:20:34i don't know how he did that he's mad
1:20:36you wouldn't even be standing be here
1:20:38right now if he hit you that oh yeah and
1:20:40i'm like i'm like joking with him well
1:20:42you know and he stitches me up
1:20:45and then i they put me in the infirmary
1:20:47because we have to keep you for about a
1:20:48week or so i stayed about a week because
1:20:51they thought the possibility of
1:20:52infection it was a pretty gross and
1:20:55serious wound but because i didn't lose
1:20:58any blood you know i was fine they
1:20:59didn't have to take me to the outside
1:21:01hospital they that that the prison
1:21:03hospital in attica is like a mass unit
1:21:05because guys come in every day with stab
1:21:07wounds cuts this that that's prison life
1:21:10so i was just another one of the wounded
1:21:12walking wounded you know
1:21:14and um
1:21:16while i was in the hospital
1:21:18you know the the state police
1:21:20and uh
1:21:22whoever else other law enforcement
1:21:24agencies
1:21:25would come into the room i was in
1:21:27because they had to interrogate me to
1:21:28find out you know who did this
1:21:30and um
1:21:32you know back then i was young but i
1:21:34i knew about the prison code
1:21:37and so i i
1:21:39they spent hours trying to get me to
1:21:40talk and you know i wouldn't tell them
1:21:43who did it you know
1:21:44and um
1:21:46after about a week
1:21:48they let me out i was healing up you
1:21:50know they took the stitches out and i
1:21:52went back to work just where where i was
1:21:54before
1:21:55but the interesting thing that happened
1:21:57was after after that
1:22:00when the inmates saw that i stood by
1:22:02ground i wouldn't squee a quarter coat
1:22:04squeal or rat on the guy that did it
1:22:08they gave me i earned a lot of respect
1:22:11so word went out throughout the whole
1:22:12prison that dave
1:22:15is a stand-up guy
1:22:16and in other words that was my test it
1:22:18wasn't something i expected or wanted
1:22:21but it turned out to be a test
1:22:23and it it proved something to the men
1:22:25that you know i could do my time and be
1:22:27a man i know it sounds almost silly and
1:22:29petty but that was the code back then
1:22:32you you lived and died by your
1:22:33reputation in prison you know if you had
1:22:35a bad reputation you you had a tough
1:22:38tough way to go if you had a good
1:22:40reputation as a stand-up guy you
1:22:42wouldn't snitch on anybody and minding
1:22:43your business you were cool so i i
1:22:46became like to many of the guys someone
1:22:49they could say
1:22:50we could trust him he's one of us you
1:22:53know he's not going to talk when under
1:22:55pressure i know it sounds trivial and
1:22:57almost silly but in in the minds of the
1:23:00prisoners my fellow prisoners and my
1:23:02peers that was a big deal so it put me
1:23:05up to a whole new level of trust and
1:23:07respect within the facility and in the
1:23:10end i could look back all these years
1:23:12later even though it was literally a
1:23:14close brush with death because by this
1:23:17man just somehow
1:23:19missed that that artery um
1:23:23i uh it turned out to my benefit till
1:23:26this till this very day guys have
1:23:28respect for me because of that one
1:23:30incident
1:23:31is it sounds kind of silly you have to
1:23:33live that way but that's just the way
1:23:35the inmate code is so that was uh
1:23:39some one of the ways that
1:23:42even though it was a bad thing good came
1:23:44out of it i can't explain that but god's
1:23:46mercy was on me
1:23:51okay well my name is david
1:23:53david berkowitz and i'm currently in
1:23:56prison
1:23:57doing
1:23:58multiple life sentences
1:24:00for a series of murders which happened
1:24:02back in 1976 1977
1:24:06i've been incarcerated for 39 years
1:24:09approaching the 40-year mark
1:24:11and my story really is a story of
1:24:16tragedy
1:24:17and triumph it's a story of a lot of
1:24:19hurt and pain
1:24:21but
1:24:22thanks to god a lot of peace and
1:24:24forgiveness and i've seen over the years
1:24:27many miracles that have happened in my
1:24:29life
1:24:30uh in the life of uh
1:24:33some of the people that were hurt by
1:24:35this tragedy
1:24:36and uh
1:24:38as a as a christian in prison i've seen
1:24:41god do many wonderful things in the
1:24:42lives of of of the prisoners here
1:24:44reuniting them with their family members
1:24:47uh helping them to deal with guilt
1:24:49issues and all the things that i'm
1:24:50dealing with myself so i've been there
1:24:53and done that and and suffered along
1:24:56with them but this story is really
1:24:58although there are some very sad parts
1:25:00to my story
1:25:02i believe that it's a story of
1:25:04forgiveness and hope and triumph and
1:25:07that ultimately uh whoever
1:25:09hears me speak now or watches this
1:25:13that they will take away something
1:25:15that they never some insight that they
1:25:17never knew before about
1:25:19childhood struggles
1:25:21growing up
1:25:22overwhelmed with periods of depression
1:25:25and self-destructive behaviors as well
1:25:28as struck you know my adolescent
1:25:30struggles as well as the good things
1:25:31that happen because i really had a life
1:25:34of
1:25:34growing up as a kid in the bronx i
1:25:37really had a life of adventure there and
1:25:39many good experiences as well as bad
1:25:41ones so it's a it's a bittersweet story
1:25:43it's like a tale of two cities and so
1:25:46this is really what i want to share and
1:25:48i i really don't know uh how to begin
1:25:51except to say well i guess i'm beginning
1:25:53right now come to think of it but um i'd
1:25:55like to begin by sharing uh a series
1:25:59some portions of some letters i received
1:26:02a number of years ago back in
1:26:042001 2002
1:26:08from a woman who lost her daughter
1:26:11in the last of the so-called son of sam
1:26:13shootings
1:26:15that
1:26:16this young woman stacy moskowitz
1:26:19tragically lost her life
1:26:21in 1977
1:26:23and
1:26:26of course after i was arrested there was
1:26:29tremendous hostility towards me from the
1:26:31public and of course from the families
1:26:33of victims and so forth and that's
1:26:34perfectly understandable
1:26:37over the years though
1:26:38as i moved on with my life having come
1:26:41to prison and going through the whole
1:26:43this whole ordeal
1:26:45it was always on my heart especially
1:26:48after i became a christian myself
1:26:50to to somehow
1:26:52reach out
1:26:53to the people i had heard in the past i
1:26:55heard in my time of ignorance and uh
1:26:59and i i said god make a way for me to
1:27:01just let these people know whoever they
1:27:04are and wherever they are you know how
1:27:06sorry i am for what had happened and uh
1:27:10and how i you know pray for them and
1:27:11hope that as much as possible
1:27:14they can heal from this of course no one
1:27:16ever fully heals from from losing a
1:27:17loved one especially losing somebody in
1:27:20a crime during a crime of violence
1:27:22nevertheless that was always one of my
1:27:26highest prayers that somehow i could
1:27:27make peace with at least somebody from
1:27:30that time of my past who was tragic was
1:27:33hurt greatly and over the years uh
1:27:36thanks to a
1:27:38well of course it was god god that did
1:27:40this but also i thank
1:27:42a journalist by the name of maury terry
1:27:44who was used by god i believe to help me
1:27:48to reach out to this one particular
1:27:50a person this is mrs moskowitz nisa
1:27:53moskowitz whose daughter stacy was
1:27:57killed in that in that last shooting and
1:28:00it was a dream come true because contact
1:28:02was made through some friends in georgia
1:28:05who had been a christian couple in
1:28:07georgia who might were friends of mine
1:28:09and reached out to her and established a
1:28:12friendship and eventually i was able to
1:28:14write to mrs moskowitz denisa she always
1:28:17wanted to be called nisa
1:28:19and so i was able to write to her and we
1:28:22developed a correspondence and we even
1:28:24spoke on the phone on a handful of
1:28:27occasions and it was a time of great
1:28:29healing and everything and really this
1:28:31was a miracle of god if you think about
1:28:33how miraculous this is it's not
1:28:35something to be taken lightly it doesn't
1:28:37happen every day where uh the mother of
1:28:41a murder victim
1:28:42would would forgive
1:28:44uh you know the person in prison but
1:28:46this is exactly what happened and i just
1:28:48want to share
1:28:50uh
1:28:51a couple of
1:28:52a couple of i have a bunch of her
1:28:54letters and plus more that i didn't
1:28:56bring this is the correspondence i had
1:28:58with nisa this these are all letters to
1:29:00me over the time we corresponded i i
1:29:03sent her maybe a dozen or so letters
1:29:06maybe a few more than that
1:29:08and uh
1:29:09but these are some of the letters she
1:29:11sent me and i just want to read portions
1:29:13of them because uh they're so nice this
1:29:16letter was undated but it's around the
1:29:18year 2001 2002
1:29:21and she says here i'm i'm really
1:29:24i really am sorry it took so long to
1:29:26answer your letter
1:29:28and then in another one this is dated
1:29:30december 6 2001
1:29:33uh mrs moskowitz says here
1:29:35david as i told you before
1:29:38i don't hate you anymore
1:29:41all it got me is
1:29:43sickness
1:29:44and i don't want that anymore
1:29:47i have let
1:29:48i have a lot of love in my heart
1:29:51even and i even forgive you and when i
1:29:54got these you know these letters it was
1:29:56just mind-boggling to be in my prison
1:29:58cell opening the mail and reading
1:30:00letters like this and then she goes on
1:30:03to say in this letter
1:30:04uh i am sorry about my handwriting it is
1:30:07really bad it really it is this is i had
1:30:09to underline this stuff because i'd
1:30:11never find it otherwise but i can't help
1:30:13it thank you and your friends for
1:30:16praying for me
1:30:18or i need all the prayers i can get
1:30:22and then in another letter this is dated
1:30:24december first first uh deception
1:30:27december 21st 2001
1:30:30she says dear david i hope this finds
1:30:32you in good health i am also glad you
1:30:36told your father about us being friends
1:30:39and talking to each other davey
1:30:41you have to call me more often as there
1:30:45are things i have to talk to you about
1:30:48and uh and another beautiful letter
1:30:51dated november 18th
1:30:532001
1:30:54she said betty that's the
1:30:57woman who reached out to her that's a
1:30:59friend of mine betty and her husband rex
1:31:01betty told me you liked the letter i
1:31:03sent you
1:31:04that
1:31:06it really made you feel good davey if
1:31:09there's any way you can call
1:31:12please do so
1:31:13i am doing
1:31:15some praying here even as i write this i
1:31:18know there is is a chance for us to be
1:31:21friends it is up to you you have you
1:31:24have my phone number so please use it
1:31:27and actually we did call a number of
1:31:29times
1:31:30and in a letter dated january 3rd
1:31:332002
1:31:35she said i felt great talking to you
1:31:37today
1:31:39and uh in another another letter that's
1:31:41let's see these other letters that are
1:31:43undated
1:31:45uh she said to me david
1:31:47you in your own way
1:31:51and is a gift is a gift from god
1:31:54and uh and then she went on to say
1:31:57with us david it is going to take time
1:32:00and patience getting to know one another
1:32:03would also like to talk to you over the
1:32:06phone
1:32:07sometimes the phone is easier to talk
1:32:10again this is up to you and here's my
1:32:12phone number and she told me what time
1:32:15to call in the morning is the best and
1:32:17so forth and as i read these things you
1:32:20know
1:32:20as our relationship kind of uh blossomed
1:32:24to an extent it was really just
1:32:26something i i could never stop thanking
1:32:28the lord enough that here was this woman
1:32:30who was so badly injured
1:32:32and eve and
1:32:34lost her daughter much earlier through
1:32:36accident
1:32:37and then she had three daughters and a
1:32:40husband
1:32:41her husband had passed away
1:32:44uh after two of the daughters had died
1:32:46she lost her younger daughter then of
1:32:48course in 1977 she lost her older
1:32:51daughter stacy but she had a middle
1:32:53daughter named ricky a very beautiful
1:32:55and attractive woman who had gotten very
1:32:57sick and had some kind of wasting
1:32:59disease and and did pass away
1:33:02leaving missus mrs moskowitz nissa
1:33:05with with nobody in her in her life she
1:33:07was living in florida at the time with
1:33:09this correspondence was going on
1:33:12and uh she said davey and this is this
1:33:15is this is so poignant and so touching
1:33:17she said davey
1:33:19you and i have a big job ahead of us
1:33:22we are going to teach people how to heal
1:33:25and forgive people
1:33:27you and
1:33:29you
1:33:30and i know some
1:33:32what it takes that it may take years but
1:33:35when people see it
1:33:37and and and see you and i united as
1:33:41friends i know in my heart we will be
1:33:44doing a truly wonderful thing
1:33:48look at all the uh healings we can do
1:33:51this is what i'm saying i'm believing i
1:33:54said i can't believe this here's this
1:33:56woman who should be so angry and want to
1:33:58hate me forever and and in the past she
1:34:01expressed nothing but rabid hatred for
1:34:04me and justifiably so but look what god
1:34:07has done this is a miracle she says we
1:34:09need to team up and and let people know
1:34:12about this forgiveness thing so that
1:34:13others could be healed and learn how to
1:34:15forgive and i'm saying oh god this is
1:34:18like mind-boggling and she says look at
1:34:21all the healings we can do i can even it
1:34:24could it could even happen to your pals
1:34:27in jail it could happen to anyone any
1:34:30time wow that was encouraging and then
1:34:33one last letter here
1:34:36thank you davey you are really trying to
1:34:38make me happy
1:34:40i have not felt this way in years
1:34:43thank you again for making my dreams
1:34:45come true
1:34:47you are giving me back my kids
1:34:50i could
1:34:52love i can love you for that alone and
1:34:55you will see all the good stuff we are
1:34:58going to do just remember davey we are
1:35:01going to start a trend
1:35:05and a good one at that
1:35:07after all these year after all these
1:35:10years
1:35:11we will start a good trend i believe
1:35:13that with all my heart i know i am
1:35:16smiling on the inside you are truly
1:35:18making me very happy and then she said
1:35:21um
1:35:22love nisa
1:35:24unless she adds think of all the good
1:35:26things
1:35:27as you can do
1:35:29you will show people that if i could
1:35:32forgive you
1:35:33why not other people forgiving each
1:35:36other and
1:35:38our correspondence went on for a while
1:35:40and we were supposed to one day beat
1:35:42hopefully we were going to meet here in
1:35:44the prison
1:35:45unfortunately a media person got
1:35:48involved in that and wanted to film the
1:35:50event happening live
1:35:51and you know commercialize it and
1:35:53sensationalize it uh i
1:35:58immediately disagreed to do that i felt
1:36:00that if if neesa and i
1:36:02were going to meet that it would be just
1:36:04private
1:36:05in the visiting room just the two of us
1:36:08and maybe some of your friends to be
1:36:10there just to support
1:36:12but that it would not be a thing for the
1:36:14media you know not be something to
1:36:16commercialize or sensationalize
1:36:19they had promised her you know she was
1:36:21living hand-to-mouth on social security
1:36:23she was very sick at the time she passed
1:36:25away shortly after this i think in 2005
1:36:29or 2006 she passed away with cancer and
1:36:32my friends spent time with her they
1:36:34actually traveled out to georgia to
1:36:35visit with her
1:36:37and
1:36:38then she was gone we never got to be
1:36:40and she was disappointed in that because
1:36:43someone who wanted to do this had
1:36:44promised her a lot of money but i felt
1:36:47that still it was the wrong thing to do
1:36:50and i declined and she was upset with
1:36:52that but um nevertheless
1:36:56i believe in a heart she forgave me and
1:36:58she had wonderful hopes that we could
1:37:00start a trend and uh well that's just a
1:37:03miracle that's something that happened
1:37:04in my life that's one of many true
1:37:06miracles that i thank god for that
1:37:11one of the things i i love to do and
1:37:13always like to do was was write i'm just
1:37:15a prolific writer
1:37:17and
1:37:19i spend a lot of time in my cell when i
1:37:21have free moments but i'm not in the
1:37:22chapel or at work or whatever i i try to
1:37:26get some writing done usually writing
1:37:28letters to individuals to encourage them
1:37:31sometimes writing letters to churches
1:37:32and youth groups
1:37:34i also have an online journal rise and
1:37:37shine.org
1:37:40and
1:37:41which is run by a friend i don't have
1:37:43internet access or anything like that
1:37:45but sometimes i'll send my writings to
1:37:48this person and they'll put it online
1:37:50because they feel it you know touches a
1:37:52lot of lives and people from all over
1:37:54the world actually read that we had
1:37:56visitors from from the middle east and
1:37:58africa and china it's really amazing
1:38:01that the site's been there for a number
1:38:02of years since 2005 actually
1:38:05and
1:38:07so i love i love writing a journal
1:38:10even prior to that
1:38:12i would send out some of my writings to
1:38:14friends
1:38:15and over time friends would come and
1:38:18david you know these these things need
1:38:19to be in a book and i was just writing
1:38:21for enjoyment and also because these are
1:38:24things god put in my heart to write
1:38:26about certain things different subjects
1:38:28and or spiritual messages or whatever
1:38:31mixture of all these things and i and i
1:38:34my attitude was well if god wants me to
1:38:38to put these in a book form i'll have to
1:38:40send somebody my way to do that because
1:38:42i have no idea how to do that i never
1:38:44even thought about that well over time
1:38:47another friend did find somebody who was
1:38:48a book publisher and approached me a
1:38:51christian man and offered to put some of
1:38:54my journal entries into book form
1:38:56not for me to profit i think take
1:38:58nothing from that but
1:39:00but
1:39:01it was it was just for
1:39:03to reach people
1:39:05with the writing so that i said well let
1:39:07the lord's will be done and a book
1:39:09called son of hope
1:39:10prison journal volume one was was
1:39:12released uh i think about 2005. although
1:39:16the publisher kind of dropped the ball
1:39:18it's not really available anymore but i
1:39:19continue to write my online journal and
1:39:22i stay busy with that and uh
1:39:25just reaching people and but i would um
1:39:28this is something uh i'd like to just
1:39:30kind of maybe
1:39:32read you know what you can put in at
1:39:34some point or use um i wrote this um
1:39:37this is a little separate than the
1:39:39journal thing but it's it's i guess part
1:39:40of the journal
1:39:42uh i wrote this this morning uh prior to
1:39:44this interview and
1:39:46because i i love writing and these
1:39:48thoughts came to my mind and i know that
1:39:50in the intensity of the interview i'd
1:39:52forget these things i wanted to make
1:39:53sure that i had i said this uh it's
1:39:56titled story of tragedy and triumph
1:39:59sorrow and hope
1:40:01november 10th 2015.
1:40:04i think the bronx was the greatest place
1:40:06to live and grow up in
1:40:08it was lively exciting challenging and
1:40:11at times scary and so much more this is
1:40:14where i grew up in the bronx new york
1:40:15city a boy growing up in the bronx could
1:40:18experience many things some good some
1:40:21not so good the streets of the borough
1:40:24were filled with energy a mixture of fun
1:40:26and danger from my bedroom window i
1:40:29could see for miles i could see the
1:40:32lights of what was then shea stadium
1:40:34whenever the new york mets played night
1:40:36games in town
1:40:37softball little league baseball stick
1:40:40ball curved ball flag football and
1:40:43flipping baseball cards my three speed
1:40:46english racer was my dear companion i
1:40:49rode on my bike night and day i pedaled
1:40:51hundreds of miles on my bikes and this
1:40:54was is not an exaggeration the streets
1:40:57of the bronx
1:40:58were teamed with people the roof of my
1:41:01apartment building in in sound view was
1:41:03a hangout for heroin addicts stores were
1:41:06everywhere ice cream trucks visited my
1:41:09street every summer the bronx was the
1:41:11greatest and in my mind it always will
1:41:14be
1:41:15that's where i grew up i grew up in the
1:41:17south view section of the bronx and
1:41:19anyone familiar with that area it was a
1:41:21really rough and tumble hot scramble
1:41:23area filled with housing projects
1:41:26working class to poor people a very high
1:41:29crime area in fact some uh in the 1980s
1:41:33it was uh when the crack epidemic
1:41:35ravaged the city uh it was one
1:41:39the soundview section of the bronx which
1:41:40was the 43rd precinct police precinct
1:41:43had like one of the highest murder rates
1:41:46in the nation and it was that's where i
1:41:47grew up it was a wild it was a wild
1:41:50exciting and adventurous neighborhood it
1:41:53was parts of it was scary i had my good
1:41:55times my bad times i had my friends i
1:41:58was very uh
1:41:59athletic you know with my energy i was
1:42:02playing all kinds of ball and we'd play
1:42:04in the streets
1:42:06the ice cube trucks would come by every
1:42:08summer you know mr softy and good humor
1:42:10bungalow bar it was an adventure i mean
1:42:13i i think i grew up in the greatest
1:42:15place in the world in fact i thank god
1:42:18that um
1:42:19i was adopted even though my parents you
1:42:22know i had hardships because my my
1:42:24adoptive parents meaning well told me my
1:42:27mom died while giving birth
1:42:30giving birth to me which
1:42:32the ex the so-called child experts said
1:42:34to do at the time and i even though i
1:42:36had my struggles looking back
1:42:38my life was so much better because i was
1:42:41adopted
1:42:42my birth mother was a was a wonderful
1:42:44sweet lady but she would have had to
1:42:46raise me alone because my birth father
1:42:49didn't want to have anything to do with
1:42:50me
1:42:51you know and she always was was short of
1:42:54money and struggling to get by so i
1:42:57never would have had the clothing the
1:42:59bicycle my little weight set that
1:43:01weightlifting said that all everything
1:43:03the adoptive parents my adoptive parents
1:43:06lavished on me because i was their only
1:43:08child i was the love the hope the joy
1:43:11these were wonderful people and because
1:43:13my adoptive parents you know they were
1:43:15in in their 40s when they adopted me
1:43:18they waited so long to adopt a child i
1:43:20mean i got treated extra special they
1:43:22spoiled me but in a good way you know
1:43:24and i love them for that and my dad was
1:43:27there to nurture me and keep me in line
1:43:29because i was really a behavioral
1:43:31problem he was the one who pushed me
1:43:33through school because i would have
1:43:34dropped out i needed tutoring after
1:43:37school tutoring because i had problems
1:43:38with my study studies that was all the
1:43:41attention deficit disorder that was back
1:43:43then seen as as as just being a dumb a
1:43:46dumbbell when really i was very i think
1:43:49i was very smart in many ways i could
1:43:51write real good today i grad ended up
1:43:54even though i was in prison at the time
1:43:56i ended up graduating college i have a
1:43:58degree now a college degree now which i
1:44:00got while in prison
1:44:02and on and on so
1:44:04god has allowed me to have a life a good
1:44:06uh
1:44:07under these difficult circumstances
1:44:09allow me to have a good life even though
1:44:11prison life is very hard they're good
1:44:14sides of it too
1:44:15being a christian and being able to
1:44:16serve the lord i feel like i'm a
1:44:18missionary living in a foreign land
1:44:20because i'm here
1:44:22in a tough spot representing jesus
1:44:24christ but looking back
1:44:26my adoptive i mean could be my birth
1:44:29mother would have never been able to
1:44:30give me
1:44:32all of the
1:44:33things that not just material things but
1:44:36just the attention the time and
1:44:37everything that my my my adoptive
1:44:40parents gave me they they were wonderful
1:44:42parents and so i i really consider
1:44:45myself a blessed person at one time i
1:44:48thought that my birth was a curse that i
1:44:50didn't deserve to live i had that death
1:44:52wish i had self-destructive behavior
1:44:54patterns because of all the false guilt
1:44:56and now
1:44:58i could see
1:45:00that i had the best of both worlds i had
1:45:02two mothers who loved me i had my mother
1:45:04pearl
1:45:05and had my mother betty
1:45:07and they were always by my side even
1:45:09when i messed up
1:45:11um
1:45:12my mother my adoptive mother pearl died
1:45:14when i was 14 which was really set me
1:45:17off on a course even worse than i was
1:45:19and it was kind of part of my downfall
1:45:22with truancy and
1:45:24running the streets and things like that
1:45:26as a teenager i was 14. and then of
1:45:29course after i was incarcerated my my
1:45:31birth mother died too back in the 80s
1:45:33and i missed them both very much and i i
1:45:36had the blessings of having two nice
1:45:37families i had the berkowitz family and
1:45:40now that i had up my birth mother's
1:45:43family my
1:45:44sister and my nieces and i i miss them
1:45:48and loved them very much i'm out of long
1:45:49since out of contact and strange with
1:45:51them because it's understandable they
1:45:54they just couldn't take what happened
1:45:55and it was too much for them to deal
1:45:57with i i've lost everything you know
1:45:59coming in once physical sense
1:46:02in an emotional sense i lost everything
1:46:03coming to prison because
1:46:06uh other than my debt my dad my adoptive
1:46:09father nathan was the only one who stuck
1:46:12with me all the years of incarceration
1:46:14and he's passed away
1:46:16and
1:46:17the other family you know they're
1:46:18they're all gone so i mean
1:46:20um i paid a big price but
1:46:24i'm living with hope now and i really
1:46:25had the best of both worlds i look back
1:46:27and see my childhood as as a overall a
1:46:30great experiences in spite of the pain
1:46:33there was there was great things you
1:46:34know
1:46:36running the streets
1:46:38that's a lot of fun the bronx was filled
1:46:40with with fun you know and i just
1:46:43you know thank god for the life that
1:46:46i mean i wish it turned out better i
1:46:47wish these things never happened but in
1:46:49spite of that
1:46:50uh when i leave this earth
1:46:52i'm believing the earth with a lot of
1:46:53good memories a lot of precious good
1:46:56memories and good times growing up in
1:46:58the in the pedaling my bike all over the
1:47:01place castle hill classic point all the
1:47:04things that maybe don't people don't
1:47:06don't even know where that is well
1:47:09you know i stratford avenue was a great
1:47:12great place to grow up i lived in the
1:47:14sixth floor tenement building the top
1:47:15floor and as i said from my window as a
1:47:18kid i could see for miles and miles all
1:47:20throughout the neighborhood
1:47:21and a lot of great great adventures a
1:47:24lot of experiences yeah it was a
1:47:27high crime area wild area but
1:47:30my parents made a home for me and i'm
1:47:32thankful i'm thankful for everything
1:47:34that i experienced that was good i
1:47:36experienced many good things in life
1:47:38people would know that because they just
1:47:40focus on the crimes and but you know i'm
1:47:42not going to allow my life to be defined
1:47:45by the crimes that happen during that
1:47:47very difficult time in my life when i
1:47:49was not in my right mind
1:47:51um
1:47:52and where i had all the influences
1:47:54people influencing me too
1:47:56with the satanism and things like that
1:47:59you know that was a tragic period
1:48:01i was at a vulnerable time getting out
1:48:04of the army and all my friends that i
1:48:06knew
1:48:06before i went to the army had all got
1:48:08moved on got married so i was kind of
1:48:10like the odd man out
1:48:12and uh
1:48:14i was just lonely and searching for my
1:48:16place in the world and and fell into a
1:48:19lot of hard times
1:48:21but uh i'm a survivor i mean god has
1:48:23brought me all this way and he didn't
1:48:25bring me all this way for nothing and i
1:48:28believe that god had his hand on my life
1:48:30even before i was born
1:48:33i may have been born out of wedlock
1:48:35people make a big deal out of it it's no
1:48:37big deal to me anymore
1:48:39because as i said i thank god for
1:48:40everything that happened to me because
1:48:41it's all worked out for the good in the
1:48:43long run
1:48:44but god has given me um
1:48:48god
1:48:48knew i was coming one day and he
1:48:51welcomed me into this world so even if
1:48:53my birth
1:48:55father joe
1:48:56didn't want me
1:48:58god wanted me and and so
1:49:02the story in some way has a happy ending
1:49:05it's a happy ending yeah

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