Crypto: Inside the world of tech billionaires | The Global Story — Transcript

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1. 0:00Are you ready to be governed by an
2. 0:01algorithm or maybe a CEO monarch?
3. 0:05A new class of tech billionaires hopes
4. 0:08that cryptocurrency will upend the
5. 0:10global financial system, replace
6. 0:12democracy, and even reshape
7. 0:15nation-states.
8. 0:17Are we entering the era of the crypto
9. 0:19billionaire takeover? And what could
10. 0:22that mean for the rest of us? From the
11. 0:24BBC, I'm Tristan Redman in London, and
12. 0:27welcome to the global story on YouTube.
13. 0:35You've been doing some reporting on
14. 0:37billionaires who are amassing enormous
15. 0:40amounts of
16. 0:41power and money via cryptocurrency.
17. 0:43You've made a documentary
18. 0:45for the BBC called Tech Billionaire
19. 0:48Takeover. And in the film, you spent
20. 0:51quite a bit of time with this
21. 0:52individual, Justin Sun. Who is he?
22. 0:54>> So, Justin Sun is a Chinese crypto
23. 0:58billionaire. He is worth 8 and 1/2
24. 1:00billion dollars. He's perhaps most known
25. 1:02for eating that 6 and 1/2 million-dollar
26. 1:04banana. But really, the way he's made
27. 1:07his wealth is through the crypto
28. 1:08platform Tron, which is one of the
29. 1:10biggest crypto platforms in the world.
30. 1:12Tron is what is known as a blockchain,
31. 1:14which is a very complicated and kind of
32. 1:15mysterious bit of technology, but it is
33. 1:18essentially a decentralized
34. 1:20encrypted
35. 1:22software network
36. 1:24that is not ruled over by one bank, one
37. 1:27authority, one person, but rather exists
38. 1:30on many computers all across the world.
39. 1:33And it's where you can buy and sell
40. 1:35crypto.
41. 1:36>> Okay, so roughly speaking,
42. 1:37cryptocurrency if cryptocurrency is
43. 1:39cash, blockchain is where you keep the
44. 1:42cash. Roughly speaking, a bank. Is that
45. 1:45right?
46. 1:45>> Um sort of. It It's It's um
47. 1:49It's so difficult to explain the
48. 1:51blockchain. It's sort of like a um
49. 1:56It's a digital ledger that contains data
50. 2:00and that data is essentially
51. 2:01transactions.
52. 2:03For example, I this person moves this
53. 2:06amount of crypto to this from this
54. 2:07wallet crypto wallet to that crypto
55. 2:09wallet. All which is to say, it's a
56. 2:10decentralized form of banking
57. 2:12essentially.
58. 2:12>> Which is which is ultra-secure
59. 2:15in the ether in no one particular place.
60. 2:18>> Yes.
61. 2:19>> Um and crucially
62. 2:21uh is not attached to your name. It
63. 2:23exists independent of people, right?
64. 2:26>> Tron processes around
65. 2:28over $20
66. 2:30worth of transactions every day.
67. 2:33Um
68. 2:34Now,
69. 2:35the other significant thing about Justin
70. 2:37Sun is he is in business with the Trump
71. 2:40family. So, he was the initial lead
72. 2:43investor in the Trump family's most
73. 2:46profitable crypto venture, World Liberty
74. 2:49Financial.
75. 2:51And that is despite having
76. 2:55several very serious um you know,
77. 2:58controversies.
78. 2:59He is someone who was accused of fraud,
79. 3:02market manipulation,
80. 3:04um of running the crypto platform Tron,
81. 3:07which sees the most the highest volume
82. 3:11of illicit transactions. This is a
83. 3:13platform that was allegedly used by
84. 3:15mafia organizations, drug traffickers,
85. 3:17by Hamas, by Hezbollah.
86. 3:19And the guy who runs that platform is
87. 3:22the lead investor in the Trump's main
88. 3:24crypto business.
89. 3:25>> Tron denies these allegations and um
90. 3:28says that it has innovated new
91. 3:30technologies to allow law enforcement to
92. 3:32crack down on illicit transactions on
93. 3:34the blockchain and has seen a decline in
94. 3:36illicit volume. So, back in 2020 under
95. 3:41President Biden, the US financial
96. 3:43regulator, the Securities and Exchange
97. 3:44Commission, the SEC, began to turn its
98. 3:47eye towards crypto. Um they claimed it
99. 3:49was rife with fraud and criminality and
100. 3:51they began investigating people.
101. 3:53Um one of the people they investigated
102. 3:55was Justin Sun.
103. 3:57Um the SEC charged him with fraud,
104. 3:59claiming he manipulated the price of his
105. 4:00tokens and hid payments to celebrities
106. 4:02who promoted them to the public. So,
107. 4:04Sun's being investigated.
108. 4:06Then, Trump was elected, and shortly
109. 4:08afterwards, Sun invested in the Trump
110. 4:11family crypto project World of Wire
111. 4:12Financial.
112. 4:13Shortly after that, the SEC, which was
113. 4:16now staffed by Trump with
114. 4:20crypto-friendly
115. 4:21appointees,
116. 4:23um filed a joint motion with Sun's
117. 4:25lawyers to pause the investigation into
118. 4:28him.
119. 4:29And within a year, the case was
120. 4:30dismissed along with a lot of other
121. 4:31cases
122. 4:33around crypto. Some people have pointed
123. 4:34specifically to the timing of the SEC
124. 4:38investigation being paused being around
125. 4:40the time that you invested heavily in
126. 4:42the Trump family crypto projects.
127. 4:44>> Yes.
128. 4:44>> What is your response to
129. 4:47those allegations about the kind of
130. 4:48coincidence of that timing?
131. 4:51But he can say that, right?
132. 4:53>> Yeah, no no comments. Yeah. No no
133. 4:55comment on uh
134. 4:57the current case. Yeah.
135. 4:58>> It's worth saying that Justin Sun denies
136. 5:01those allegations. Um
137. 5:04that the Securities and Exchange
138. 5:06Commission case against him
139. 5:09has been dismissed, and also that he
140. 5:13says that Tron is now leading the way in
141. 5:16creating new technological innovations
142. 5:18to
143. 5:19combat illicit crypto transactions, and
144. 5:21that they've seen a huge decline. But,
145. 5:24uh those controversies are there, and
146. 5:25they didn't stop the Trump family from
147. 5:27accepting him as the the lead investor
148. 5:29in their crypto project.
149. 5:30>> Why would people who are into the
150. 5:32blockchain
151. 5:34want to hide or obfuscate what they were
152. 5:37doing with their money?
153. 5:40>> That's a really good question.
154. 5:42Um
155. 5:43the one of the main appeals of
156. 5:45cryptocurrency is that
157. 5:48no one can see whose money it is, um
158. 5:51which means it's harder to tax, it's
159. 5:53harder to regulate. Um you know, it's
160. 5:55traceable. Your public uh
161. 5:59kind of encrypted encrypted key is is
162. 6:01traceable and visible on the blockchain,
163. 6:03but the private key, the the you behind
164. 6:05that is invisible.
165. 6:07Um it has been used, you know, trillions
166. 6:11of of of cryptocurrency have been used
167. 6:12by criminal organizations, by terrorist
168. 6:14organizations. Um but you know, there
169. 6:16are other reasons why people want to use
170. 6:18crypto. It's quicker than uh bank
171. 6:21transaction.
172. 6:22Um
173. 6:24a lot of people want to A lot of people
174. 6:27see the banking industry as kind of
175. 6:29corrupt or unfair, and they see crypto
176. 6:32as a way to liberate us from that.
177. 6:34Um that certainly is something that the
178. 6:37Trump family says, and when they
179. 6:39advertise their reason for creating
180. 6:41World Liberty Financial.
181. 6:42>> Once we did get political, which we got
182. 6:44quite political, we woke up one morning
183. 6:46and had 300 bank accounts just
184. 6:48eliminated.
185. 6:48>> Donald Trump Jr., who you know, you you
186. 6:50can see a bit of him in my film,
187. 6:52uh he often talks about how his family,
188. 6:54the Trump family, were de-banked um when
189. 6:57they became political, which uh you
190. 6:59know, isn't really true. I I don't think
191. 7:01anyone would believe that the Trumps
192. 7:02can't like have a bank account, right?
193. 7:04Um but that's one of the reasons they
194. 7:06supposedly created World Liberty
195. 7:08Financial.
196. 7:09>> The idea of de-banking uh
197. 7:13Trumps aside is a phenomenon which
198. 7:15exists, and it it was very interesting
199. 7:17to me to learn that uh it is linked to
200. 7:20the right that the the rise of supposed
201. 7:23de-banking is also linked to the rise of
202. 7:25crypto, that it's seen as an
203. 7:27alternative, which
204. 7:28was not something I was familiar with
205. 7:30before. But what does the Trump family
206. 7:33want from Justin Sun? What Justin Sun?
207. 7:36Why do they have such a close
208. 7:37relationship?
209. 7:38>> can say is that Justin Sun was the
210. 7:41initial lead investor in World Liberty
211. 7:43Financial. Now, what World Liberty
212. 7:45Financial does is it its main thing is
213. 7:49minting a cryptocurrency product called
214. 7:52USD1, which is what's known as a
215. 7:54stablecoin, a cryptocurrency product
216. 7:57that is theoretically linked to the US
217. 8:00dollar. One USD1 is worth one one US
218. 8:03dollar.
219. 8:04The Trump family has made around 2.3
220. 8:07billion dollars off of their crypto
221. 8:10ventures. Mhm. Billion with a B.
222. 8:12>> Okay.
223. 8:15>> This is an unprecedented
224. 8:18you know, speed at which one family has
225. 8:20gained wealth. The World Liberty
226. 8:22Financial is about as direct of a way as
227. 8:25you can give money to the Trump family.
228. 8:28>> Well, the White House has denied that
229. 8:30President Donald Trump is profiting from
230. 8:32his presidency, but what is Donald
231. 8:35Trump's actual relationship between
232. 8:38What is his actual relationship
233. 8:40with this company World Liberty
234. 8:43Financial, as we can understand it?
235. 8:45>> it's owned by his family trust, of which
236. 8:47he is a beneficiary. So,
237. 8:49um
238. 8:51I mean, that is unprecedented for a
239. 8:53president. I mean, some presidents would
240. 8:54tend to put their money or their assets
241. 8:56in a blind trust.
242. 8:58But, you know, the the reason that this
243. 9:00is an issue is because
244. 9:03uh
245. 9:04there are decisions that that that that
246. 9:07the president could undertake or that
247. 9:08people could undertake around the
248. 9:10president um that could financially
249. 9:13benefit his family trust. Anna Kelly, a
250. 9:15representative for President Donald
251. 9:16Trump, said of my film that this is the
252. 9:19same tired narrative that Democrats have
253. 9:21pushed against President Trump, his
254. 9:22family, and his administration for a
255. 9:23decade. President Trump only acts in the
256. 9:26best interests of the American public.
257. 9:27There are no conflicts of interest.
258. 9:30>> Okay, so there is a huge amount of
259. 9:31money, it would appear,
260. 9:33to be made right now if you either
261. 9:37devise a cryptocurrency of some
262. 9:40description or if like Justin Sun you
263. 9:42are in more of a kind of management the
264. 9:45blockchain side of things.
265. 9:48Justin Sun has himself acquired a huge
266. 9:50amount of wealth. He's invested some of
267. 9:53that in the this Trump family venture.
268. 9:57But he is not just a tech billionaire.
269. 10:00He's also a politician. I understand
270. 10:02he's Prime Minister of a small
271. 10:05micronation called Liberland.
272. 10:08>> We've seen we've seen how politicians
273. 10:10can benefit from from crypto. But what
274. 10:13do the the crypto world want in return?
275. 10:15What do these tech billionaires want in
276. 10:16return? Well, a lot of them want to
277. 10:19rewrite the rules of how we govern
278. 10:21society. And Justin Sun believes and
279. 10:24this will get us to the micronation
280. 10:26story.
281. 10:27Justin Sun believes like many other tech
282. 10:30billionaires believe that the government
283. 10:32the system of government we now have a
284. 10:34democracy is outdated and can be
285. 10:37replaced with the blockchain, the
286. 10:39technology that underwrites
287. 10:40cryptocurrency. So laws, voting,
288. 10:44governance could all be transactions
289. 10:46that are automatically undertaken via
290. 10:49the computer code that makes up the
291. 10:52blockchain. And that is how Justin Sun
292. 10:55was elected the Prime Minister of a
293. 10:58small libertarian micronation called
294. 11:01Liberland which exists on a disputed
295. 11:05spit of land between Serbia and Croatia
296. 11:07in the middle of the Danube River.
297. 11:09>> Okay, so how what how big is Liberland
298. 11:12and and who lives there?
299. 11:13>> Liberland is is tiny.
300. 11:16It has but it has about 200 companies
301. 11:18registered.
302. 11:20Uh
303. 11:21the president Vit
304. 11:24Vit Jedlička he essentially founded it
305. 11:27because he's a tech libertarian.
306. 11:29>> We're building the first decentralized
307. 11:31autonomous government and also the
308. 11:33freest country in the world.
309. 11:35>> Um there are no taxes in Liberland.
310. 11:38Um
311. 11:39but and there you know, there are a few
312. 11:41permanent settlers on that spit of land,
313. 11:43but the the main kind of citizens of
314. 11:45Liberland they they struggle to visit it
315. 11:48because
316. 11:49>> the conditions for visiting Liberland
317. 11:51from Croatian side because I've got this
318. 11:535-year ban from Croatia.
319. 11:55>> In fact, the Croatian police have often
320. 11:57gone in and kind of destroyed their
321. 11:59encampment a few times. This is the
322. 12:01problem with starting a tiny new
323. 12:03country. You sometimes have to contend
324. 12:05with like proper bigger countries with
325. 12:07like police and military and stuff. And
326. 12:09that's what's happening to Liberland.
327. 12:11But Liberland is really it exists more
328. 12:13in the blockchain than it does in the
329. 12:14physical world. You know, that spit of
330. 12:16land is what's called a physical node.
331. 12:18>> Mhm.
332. 12:19>> But it's really a digital country, if
333. 12:22you will. Um and
334. 12:24a lot of these tech billionaires think
335. 12:25that we will all live in digital
336. 12:26countries in the future. That And And we
337. 12:28can get into that in a little bit, but
338. 12:30how was Justin Sun elected on the
339. 12:31blockchain? He was elected through a
340. 12:34crypto token called Liberland Merits.
341. 12:38>> The elections are every 3 months.
342. 12:39They're taking place on blockchain.
343. 12:41>> Mhm.
344. 12:41>> And the president is elected with
345. 12:44merits. So, the people that have more
346. 12:46merits are able to have more say in who
347. 12:49is going to be in the leadership of the
348. 12:50country.
349. 12:51>> And can you purchase Liberland Merits?
350. 12:54>> Yes. Yes.
351. 12:54>> What that means is the more you buy, the
352. 12:57more voting power you have.
353. 12:58>> Okay, so the wealthier you are, the more
354. 13:01influence you have on how your home is
355. 13:02governed.
356. 13:03>> Exactly, which is arguably the case
357. 13:05already in Western democracies. It's
358. 13:06just that in this case, it's literally
359. 13:08written into the constitution and the
360. 13:09computer code of this country.
361. 13:11>> Mhm. So, it's um it's not one person,
362. 13:14one vote. It's
363. 13:16uh
364. 13:17>> One token.
365. 13:17>> 1 million dollars, 1 million votes.
366. 13:20>> Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
367. 13:22>> Okay. Well, I mean, I have to I mean,
368. 13:24this sounds like a pretty dystopian view
369. 13:27the future, especially if these are
370. 13:29ethereal places, not really
371. 13:32real places. You know, if I think of
372. 13:33governance, it might be um
373. 13:35you know, uh
374. 13:37a health service sort of fixing a
375. 13:39ingrown toenail or um educating my
376. 13:42daughter or whatever. How is blockchain
377. 13:45going to do those things?
378. 13:46>> Yeah, so this is a really good question.
379. 13:47So,
380. 13:49in theory,
381. 13:50um if
382. 13:52the government's budget is on the
383. 13:55blockchain
384. 13:57and we vote on the blockchain with our
385. 13:59tokens to allocate $50,000 of government
386. 14:02budget to building a bridge, then that
387. 14:05money would automatically be allocated
388. 14:09to
389. 14:10building a bridge. But then you're
390. 14:11right, then the question is, "Okay, but
391. 14:12who builds the bridge?" So, well, you
392. 14:13well, maybe we could vote on which
393. 14:14contractor builds the bridge, right? But
394. 14:16then you still need a company and people
395. 14:19building that bridge or or or, you know,
396. 14:22implementing this stuff. And this is why
397. 14:25this technology I think ultimately
398. 14:27doesn't work cuz it it it ultimately
399. 14:29relies on human beings and people to
400. 14:31implement it. And and already you see,
401. 14:34in Liberland, they have like, you know,
402. 14:36politicians with titles like the
403. 14:38Minister for the Interior and stuff. So,
404. 14:41it it the idea that the technology could
405. 14:44basically replace all of government,
406. 14:45replace all of laws, replace the banking
407. 14:46system is one that everyone seems very
408. 14:49excited about in Silicon Valley.
409. 14:50>> Okay. I mean, what's the ideology that's
410. 14:54at the root of all of this? If you're
411. 14:56Justin Sun, Prime Minister of Liberland
412. 14:58or or whatever title you might happen to
413. 15:00have given yourself,
414. 15:02what kind of world do you envision? What
415. 15:05are you trying to build?
416. 15:07>> Well, one thing you that
417. 15:10people should know about the tech
418. 15:11billionaires that I've met and and the
419. 15:14millionaire tech millionaires I've
420. 15:15interacted with is
421. 15:17they
422. 15:18yes, many of them are cozying up to the
423. 15:19Trump administration. Yes, some of them
424. 15:21are cozying up to Ni- Nigel Farage as
425. 15:23well.
426. 15:24Um
427. 15:25they
428. 15:27see Trump and his office and the
429. 15:29government as kind of fleeting and
430. 15:31ephemeral and and not really
431. 15:33they're not going to be there for a long
432. 15:34time. They see themselves as the ones
433. 15:37with the real power. They see themselves
434. 15:38as the ones defining the future,
435. 15:40governing the future. And they would
436. 15:42like to replace the kind of what they
437. 15:45see as inefficient bureaucratic
438. 15:46human-led um
439. 15:49uh systems of government with a
440. 15:51technology-based one. And um
441. 15:54one in which
442. 15:56uh
443. 15:57the individual freedom the individual's
444. 15:59freedom is paramount. And no
445. 16:02institution, bank, or or government can
446. 16:04can kind of take your money from you,
447. 16:06your rights from you. But the ideas get
448. 16:08weirder and weirder. I mean, we can talk
449. 16:10about Curtis Yarvin.
450. 16:11>> Uh-huh.
451. 16:11>> Obviously, it's in these institutional
452. 16:13meritocratic structures with these
453. 16:16ancient brand [music] names.
454. 16:17Right?
455. 16:18>> And we saved the bulk of the chapter for
456. 16:19Vance.
457. 16:20>> Absolutely. So, actually, the amount
458. 16:22that he has is not actually very high.
459. 16:24>> Curtis Yarvin is an interesting
460. 16:26character, isn't he? He's a name that
461. 16:27I've I've heard um floating around.
462. 16:30>> Curtis Yarvin is a very famous
463. 16:34neoreactionary thinker. He looks a bit
464. 16:37like Joey Ramone. He has like long black
465. 16:38hair and like a leather jacket and
466. 16:40>> The punk singer.
467. 16:41>> Yeah. Yeah, he sing he kind of he he
468. 16:43speaks in these
469. 16:44sort of circuitous
470. 16:47rambling um like kind of rants about
471. 16:51philosophy and history and it's a little
472. 16:54bit like if you've ever been to the
473. 16:55stone circle at Glastonbury at like 4:00
474. 16:57a.m. the kind of things that people
475. 16:59speak to you.
476. 16:59>> I don't know what you're talking about.
477. 17:01I would never
478. 17:02>> [laughter]
479. 17:03>> It's It's actually You can imagine it's
480. 17:05that it's that kind of rambling except
481. 17:08except this is also someone who has
482. 17:11garnered the respect of Peter Thiel, um
483. 17:13one of the richest people in the world.
484. 17:15They have praised this guy. What does he
485. 17:17think? He thinks that democracy is
486. 17:18outdated
487. 17:20and that we should replace it with
488. 17:23something more akin to a kind of
489. 17:26corporate monarchy where these tech bros
490. 17:29that we've been talking about are
491. 17:30actually our kings.
492. 17:33>> I would define it as unaccountable
493. 17:35monarchy.
494. 17:35>> It sort of centers around this notion
495. 17:37that democracy has failed that like the
496. 17:39will of the people has not been
497. 17:41successfully enacted by democracy. It's
498. 17:42it's inefficient. Um and therefore what
499. 17:46we really need is essentially a more
500. 17:48like an enlightened monarch or as he
501. 17:50calls it a a kind of CEO king. Um
502. 17:54and that society in in the future should
503. 17:56be run as a kind of series as he calls a
504. 18:00patchwork of almost city-states where
505. 18:03each one of them is actually more like a
506. 18:05corporation than a country and it's has
507. 18:08customers rather than citizens and they
508. 18:10compete for citizens like you a company
509. 18:12would compete for customers. And you
510. 18:14could switch countries like you might
511. 18:16switch gym memberships for example if
512. 18:17one offers something more than you like
513. 18:19the other one.
514. 18:20And instead of and and and these
515. 18:22companies would be run by
516. 18:25hereditary monarchs who are held
517. 18:26accountable by a kind of shareholder
518. 18:29aristocracy a board who have shares in
519. 18:31this country.
520. 18:33And he believes this would be a better
521. 18:35way to run society because corporations
522. 18:38are more successful than than
523. 18:39governments.
524. 18:40>> Okay. So Mr. Yarvin
525. 18:42>> Yeah.
526. 18:43>> Uh his name is remarkable. His name
527. 18:45makes him sound like a country music
528. 18:46singer from the 1970s. Um Mr. Yarvin um
529. 18:51is not anti-elitist. He doesn't want to
530. 18:54uh wipe away and get rid of the elites
531. 18:57all together. He just wants to replace
532. 18:58them with another group of elites if I
533. 19:01understand correctly who conveniently
534. 19:02enough for tech billionaires are
535. 19:05>> are them.
536. 19:05>> are tech billionaires. Um but what does
537. 19:07that mean for you know the kind of um
538. 19:10rank and file people like me who are not
539. 19:13tech billionaires, who's Where's my say
540. 19:15in all of this?
541. 19:16>> If in in Curtis Yarvin's society?
542. 19:19>> Yeah.
543. 19:20>> Well, you don't know what you want.
544. 19:22That's what he would say. So, I mean,
545. 19:23like the the the masses
546. 19:26um
547. 19:27often do not know what they want or they
548. 19:29what they want isn't enacted by
549. 19:31democracy. Someone who might know what
550. 19:33you want better than you is an
551. 19:35enlightened CEO monarch, someone who's
552. 19:38smarter than you, someone like
553. 19:40billionaire.
554. 19:40>> Mhm. Justin Sun, who is a real-life tech
555. 19:43billionaire, um
556. 19:45does he believe in this kind of stuff?
557. 19:49>> Justin Sun believes that
558. 19:51uh
559. 19:52the government should be replaced by
560. 19:55technology.
561. 19:56The important thing is
562. 19:59he believes that the Trump
563. 20:00administration is helping enact this
564. 20:02vision. He believes that the Trump
565. 20:03administration is at least helping him
566. 20:05enact his vision of replacing money with
567. 20:07crypto, replacing the banking system
568. 20:08with the blockchain.
569. 20:10But what he really wants is to replace
570. 20:12every aspect of government with the
571. 20:13blockchain.
572. 20:15And so
573. 20:17I think we need to start thinking about
574. 20:19not just how is this wave of money from
575. 20:22the world of crypto affecting our
576. 20:23politics? And it is a wave of money, by
577. 20:25the way, because just in looking at the
578. 20:27last election cycle in the US, for
579. 20:28example,
580. 20:29um
581. 20:30the crypto industry um contributed
582. 20:33around $238 million, which surpassed the
583. 20:37fossil fuel industry, making the crypto
584. 20:39industry now the
585. 20:40most powerful lobby in the United
586. 20:42States.
587. 20:43Um that that wave of money is clearly
588. 20:45affecting our politics, but what do
589. 20:47those people want in return?
590. 20:49And when you dig into it, the ideas that
591. 20:52you find often lead to wealth and power
592. 20:55flowing directly into the hands of the
593. 20:58people who are already the wealthiest
594. 21:00and who control the technology.
595. 21:01>> What's the future that tech
596. 21:03billionaires, and you've met a few of
597. 21:05them on this journey you've been on.
598. 21:06What's the future that they envision
599. 21:09for poor saps like you and me, Matt?
600. 21:12>> Their idea is that money will be
601. 21:16replaced by crypto. Your job will be
602. 21:18replaced by AI.
603. 21:20Um and uh you'll essentially live on
604. 21:23some form of universal basic income,
605. 21:25which is doled out by
606. 21:27you know, if there's no taxes, where
607. 21:28does that money come from?
608. 21:30I mean, yeah, but you'll be you'll be
609. 21:32given some kind of like just income just
610. 21:34to be alive by the uh by the blockchain,
611. 21:37by whatever, you know.
612. 21:39>> So, the blockchain would be the ultimate
613. 21:40provider
614. 21:42in a way.
615. 21:42>> Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
616. 21:44>> You spend quite a lot of time in this
617. 21:46world, Matt. So, maybe
618. 21:48you're blasé about it, but some of this
619. 21:51does sound uh somewhat dystopian.
620. 21:54What kind of impact does it have on you
621. 21:57when you've spent so much time digging
622. 21:59into it?
623. 22:00>> The main sense that I get is like
624. 22:05how far removed from reality the
625. 22:08wealthiest and in some ways smartest
626. 22:12in terms of a technology type of
627. 22:14smartness people are. They really do
628. 22:16believe that their brains are superior
629. 22:21and that like, you know,
630. 22:23they should and could run the world
631. 22:26better. They they really are onto
632. 22:28something that's
633. 22:30um left the realm of
634. 22:32of a business
635. 22:34uh or technology advancement and entered
636. 22:36the realm of a kind of spiritual
637. 22:38semi-spiritual movement. They believe
638. 22:40that they really are accomplishing the
639. 22:41most incredible thing in history.
640. 22:43And um
641. 22:45I think it's quite funny seeing it from
642. 22:47outside perspective because you realize
643. 22:48that they don't have one foot in
644. 22:49reality. They're only surrounded by
645. 22:51people who
646. 22:52are either trying to get money from them
647. 22:54or who work for them
648. 22:56or there to support them. So, no one's
649. 22:58in there being like, "What What hell are
650. 23:00you talking about?" And I think a lot of
651. 23:01them saw me because I'm a journalist,
652. 23:03I'm not trying to get money out of them.
653. 23:05That was like a really rare moment for
654. 23:06them to meet someone who they almost
655. 23:09were able to open up to like a friend in
656. 23:11a way cuz they finally there was someone
657. 23:13who's like isn't sucking up to them, you
658. 23:15know?
659. 23:16>> Tech billionaires get lonely, too.
660. 23:18>> Yeah. Yeah. Maybe more than us.
661. 23:20>> Matt, thank you so much. I'm not sure I
662. 23:22found that reassuring and comforting as
663. 23:24far as the future is concerned, but I
664. 23:26was a story I think I probably needed to
665. 23:27hear. Thank you so much.
666. 23:28>> Thank you. Thanks.
667. 23:30>> That was Matt Shea, journalist and
668. 23:32presenter of the new BBC documentary,
669. 23:35The Tech Billionaire Takeover. And
670. 23:38that's it for this episode of The Global
671. 23:39Story. We're also an audio podcast. You
672. 23:42can find us on bbc.com or wherever you
673. 23:45listen. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see
674. 23:46you again tomorrow. Cheerio.