Crush Your Next Job Interview in English — Transcript

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1. 0:00Hey, what's up? Stephanie the English
2. 0:01coach here from englishfulltime.com.
3. 0:04Today, I have my brother Eric with me.
4. 0:06We are going to do a conversation in
5. 0:08English at normal regular everyday speed
6. 0:11for you to practice your listening
7. 0:13skills. And we're also going to talk
8. 0:15about something really interesting
9. 0:17because he recently conducted some
10. 0:19interviews with some guys from India.
11. 0:22And as soon as he started telling me the
12. 0:24story a while back, I was like, "Wait,
13. 0:26save this. I want you to share it on my
14. 0:28YouTube channel." So, he actually hasn't
15. 0:30even told me the full story yet. So,
16. 0:33anyways, we're not going to slow down.
17. 0:34Try to keep up. This is full immersion,
18. 0:37okay?
19. 0:37>> [laughter]
20. 0:38>> So, with that said, go ahead and
21. 0:39introduce yourself.
22. 0:40>> Hi everyone. I'm Eric. I am a IT and
23. 0:44cybersecurity specialist. So, I help
24. 0:46companies get their internal IT and
25. 0:49cybersecurity operations up to speed.
26. 0:52>> Wow, you sure into that.
27. 0:54>> I did. [laughter]
28. 0:55I did. We don't need to elaborate
29. 0:56further.
30. 0:57>> We practiced and he actually had this
31. 0:59really long detailed like my eyes were
32. 1:02glazing over
33. 1:03>> [laughter]
34. 1:04>> and I was like, "I think we lost
35. 1:05everybody. Let's try again."
36. 1:07It's like, "You did good, Eric. You did
37. 1:09good."
38. 1:09>> IT and cybersecurity is what I do. If
39. 1:12you want to know more,
40. 1:14>> [laughter]
41. 1:14>> that's another conversation, I suppose.
42. 1:16>> Yeah, he's smart. There we go. Enough
43. 1:19said. No, okay.
44. 1:20So, let's back up a little bit. Let's
45. 1:22talk about your job, your position right
46. 1:24now because I remember when you first
47. 1:26got into this, you were like a guy who
48. 1:28was doing tickets.
49. 1:29>> Yeah, I was a SOC analyst. A security
50. 1:32operations center analyst.
51. 1:34>> So, you know, like a complaint would
52. 1:35come in, right?
53. 1:38>> A complaint? Sometimes a complaint. We
54. 1:41call them tickets.
55. 1:42>> Yeah, every ticket you told me about was
56. 1:44like a complaint.
57. 1:45>> Oh, because those were the interesting
58. 1:46story ones. But, most of what I did was
59. 1:48very rudimentary.
60. 1:50>> Okay, so like customer support?
61. 1:52>> It was specifically security. So, most
62. 1:55of the tickets we were getting were
63. 1:57either people submitting, "Hey, I think
64. 2:00email is suspicious. Can you look into
65. 2:02it for me? Or it was one of our tools
66. 2:05sending it like hey, this alert
67. 2:06triggered and you might want to look
68. 2:08into, you know, X, Y, and Z on the
69. 2:10network and we would conduct our
70. 2:11investigations and document it.
71. 2:13>> Okay, so before you were a lowly ticket
72. 2:15boy.
73. 2:16>> [laughter]
74. 2:17>> And now
75. 2:17>> I think the name of the position was
76. 2:20like IT security professional level one.
77. 2:23Okay, lowly ticket boy. [laughter]
78. 2:26>> Okay, what I mean is this is
79. 2:27entry-level. What I'm trying to do is
80. 2:29make a comparison. You're not there
81. 2:31anymore.
82. 2:31>> Yeah, I understand.
83. 2:33>> [laughter]
84. 2:33>> Okay, so now you are a CISO something or
85. 2:36other.
86. 2:37>> A chief information security officer,
87. 2:39which is means that I'm in charge of the
88. 2:40entire security program at the the
89. 2:42companies that I work for.
90. 2:43>> Yeah, so now you have people under you
91. 2:45and those are the ticket boys. I'm just
92. 2:47kidding. I should stop calling them
93. 2:49that.
94. 2:50I'm just kidding, okay? I'm just
95. 2:52kidding. Okay, so now you have other
96. 2:54people what we should maybe I should
97. 2:55make this a little more professional.
98. 2:56What do you think?
99. 2:57>> It's fun.
100. 2:58>> [laughter]
101. 2:58>> It's fun with me. I'll have you know
102. 3:01that I have girls on my team, too.
103. 3:03>> Okay, no, I know, I know. Okay, so
104. 3:05anyways, anyways, so now you have people
105. 3:08working under you. Um you have a whole
106. 3:10team. You are actually doing the
107. 3:13security for multiple companies.
108. 3:15>> Yeah.
109. 3:16>> So recently you did some interviews and
110. 3:21now tell me about that because you came
111. 3:23to me and you're like, "Oh my gosh,
112. 3:24Steph, you will not believe this. Like
113. 3:26these people were using AI. Their
114. 3:28interviews were terrible.
115. 3:31Um so what happened?"
116. 3:32>> Yes, it got to a point where one person
117. 3:34is not enough to build a cybersecurity
118. 3:36program at a company. What you get to a
119. 3:38company large enough for small
120. 3:40companies, you can do it with one
121. 3:41person, but once you're at like three or
122. 3:43400, 500 people, you need a team uh to
123. 3:46be doing this. You either need to get a
124. 3:47team outside or you need to build an
125. 3:49in-house team. So I got the approval and
126. 3:51the budget to build an in-house team.
127. 3:52And so then I set out looking for what I
128. 3:55needed. So I needed somebody for
129. 3:57compliance. I needed a security
130. 3:59operations lead. I needed a couple of
131. 4:01people to do the IT operations because
132. 4:03we do both IT and security operations on
133. 4:05my team.
134. 4:06And so after I got the approval in the
135. 4:08budget, I needed to design the
136. 4:09interviews first of all for what I was
137. 4:11looking for. Just design the job
138. 4:13descriptions, the interview format, and
139. 4:15then go out and conduct the interviews.
140. 4:18So I wrote the job descriptions
141. 4:20>> Mhm.
142. 4:20>> based on our company's needs. So for
143. 4:22compliance, we needed somebody that
144. 4:24could lead us through different
145. 4:25compliance certifications like SOC 2,
146. 4:28ISO 27001.
147. 4:30Those are just security frameworks that
148. 4:32are used for compliance benchmarks for
149. 4:35companies when they want to be
150. 4:36compliant.
151. 4:36>> So basically, whoever applied for the
152. 4:38job needed to have knowledge of those
153. 4:40things and be able to do those things.
154. 4:42>> Right, but I wasn't just looking for
155. 4:43knowledge of those things because
156. 4:45knowledge of the specific frameworks, as
157. 4:48those are called,
158. 4:50you could learn it in a couple of weeks.
159. 4:52And so I knew this going into the
160. 4:54interviews. And this is my own personal
161. 4:56philosophy on work is that the
162. 4:58technicals can actually be learned
163. 5:00relatively quickly. A particular tool or
164. 5:03coding language, once you know how to
165. 5:06code, right? And now everyone codes with
166. 5:08AI, but you know, back in the day when
167. 5:10we used to code in languages by hand,
168. 5:12>> years ago.
169. 5:13>> in the Stone Ages, basically.
170. 5:15>> [laughter]
171. 5:16>> Translating from a one language to
172. 5:18another language was not that difficult,
173. 5:21not that much of it. So once you learn
174. 5:22one language, going from one language to
175. 5:24another language
176. 5:25similar to learning a um languages the
177. 5:28way that you do. You know, once you know
178. 5:29>> Spanish.
179. 5:30>> Yeah. Any language in the Spanish
180. 5:32family, the Romance languages like
181. 5:33Italian, French, right?
182. 5:35>> Right. Learning your first language, or
183. 5:36not your first, but your second language
184. 5:38I would say is the hardest. And then
185. 5:39after that you're like, "Oh, now I know
186. 5:40how to learn languages." And it gets
187. 5:42easier.
188. 5:43>> Yeah, exactly. So we have the same sort
189. 5:45of thing in um
190. 5:47in IT. So I had to design these
191. 5:51interviews in such a way um that
192. 5:54captured
193. 5:55not just the technicals, but judgment.
194. 5:59And that's kind of a tricky thing to do.
195. 6:01>> Like how do you interview someone to see
196. 6:03how what judgment calls they would make
197. 6:05and what decisions they would make,
198. 6:07their problem-solving abilities.
199. 6:09>> Exactly. So, in what I what I do,
200. 6:11nothing is scripted, much like this
201. 6:13interview.
202. 6:14Uh
203. 6:15>> So, wait, say that again. What you
204. 6:16>> Nothing I do is scripted.
205. 6:18>> On the interviews?
206. 6:19>> On um in my job. So, every day it's a
207. 6:24different set of challenges that are
208. 6:26very and and problems that arise that
209. 6:29like I don't have playbooks for
210. 6:31everything that comes across my desk.
211. 6:33>> Mhm.
212. 6:33>> And I have to be able to react on the
213. 6:35fly and make judgment calls on very
214. 6:38nuanced decisions where I have
215. 6:40incomplete information, and there's also
216. 6:44um sometimes there's personalities to
217. 6:46navigate as well.
218. 6:48>> And so, I have to
219. 6:50with incomplete information and using my
220. 6:52own judgment and experience, make calls.
221. 6:55Sometimes these calls affect the whole
222. 6:56company, you know, the the way that we
223. 6:58have to make these decisions. And it's
224. 7:01important that when I make those calls,
225. 7:04I I have the right framework. I I'm
226. 7:06deciding for the right framework. So,
227. 7:07when I'm conducting these interviews,
228. 7:09I'm also looking for somebody that can
229. 7:12also
230. 7:13think with incomplete information and
231. 7:17work through like "Hey, what do I know?
232. 7:20What do I not know? How can I find out
233. 7:23what I don't know? What missing pieces
234. 7:25do I need to put in place before I can
235. 7:27make a decision and have that decision
236. 7:29be effective and I can defend that
237. 7:31position?"
238. 7:31>> Yeah, and without needing you for every
239. 7:33last thing.
240. 7:34>> And without needing me for every last
241. 7:35thing. That's That's important as well.
242. 7:37I I'm trying to be able to delegate to
243. 7:39to these people. These are These are not
244. 7:41just entry-level positions. These are
245. 7:43leaders. These are like deputies that I
246. 7:45need on my team to be able to take care
247. 7:47of certain aspects of the security
248. 7:49program without my direct oversight on
249. 7:51everything that they're doing.
250. 7:53>> Mhm. Yeah.
251. 7:54>> So, I designed the interviews using AI
252. 7:57and using these as prompts, and the
253. 8:00focus uh and the core philosophy of the
254. 8:03interview was demonstrated competence
255. 8:06and critical decision-making and
256. 8:09technical understanding as a secondary.
257. 8:12So, kind of taking it for granted,
258. 8:14here's here's what it would look like in
259. 8:16practicality. So, for example, for the
260. 8:17compliance interview, I would just
261. 8:19assume they were familiar with the
262. 8:21frameworks, but I don't want them to
263. 8:23talk about what are the elements of the
264. 8:25framework. I want them to tell me, "What
265. 8:27did you do when you needed to implement
266. 8:29this framework and then there was an
267. 8:31engineer that was giving you a hard
268. 8:33time." That was kind of the question
269. 8:34that I asked because that just assumes
270. 8:37that they they know what the framework
271. 8:38is, but I want to see what it looked
272. 8:40like in action. And I was also aware at
273. 8:43this time, I know that people were using
274. 8:45AI in interviews, and I wanted to
275. 8:47construct my interview in such a way to
276. 8:49catch cheaters.
277. 8:50>> Uh-huh.
278. 8:50>> So, this this was actually intentional
279. 8:52on my part. All of the questions were
280. 8:54framed that you needed to respond with a
281. 8:57personal narrative. I was asking the
282. 8:59person, "What did you do in this
283. 9:01situation? Or what would you do in this
284. 9:03hypothetical situation? Tell me how you
285. 9:05implemented this, right?" All of the
286. 9:07questions were um
287. 9:08>> So, I mean, to me like that actually
288. 9:10seems like very like every interview
289. 9:13should be framed like this because it's
290. 9:14not a test. It's not like in high school
291. 9:17or college when they're just testing,
292. 9:18"Do you know this information?" The test
293. 9:20is
294. 9:21you have this information, you've had
295. 9:23this information, how did you work with
296. 9:25it? How did you implement it? How did
297. 9:27you problem-solve with it? Because that
298. 9:28speaks to your actual ability. And when
299. 9:31we're on the job, it's not just about
300. 9:32knowing something, it's about how do you
301. 9:34use that information to get a job done
302. 9:36and get it done well.
303. 9:37>> You would be surprised at some of the
304. 9:39interviews that I've gone through.
305. 9:41>> With like other people interviewing you?
306. 9:42>> Other people interviewing me. Not
307. 9:43interviews that I conducted.
308. 9:45>> Oh.
309. 9:45>> I've interviewed for a lot of positions
310. 9:47and some very large organizations as
311. 9:51well, where the interviews were asking
312. 9:53me a question a technical question,
313. 9:56right? That was a simple Google search
314. 9:58away. Like if I wanted to, I could have
315. 10:00had another screen, just Google the
316. 10:03answer, and reported directly the
317. 10:06answer. And like
318. 10:07My philosophy on interviews is a little
319. 10:09bit different than that.
320. 10:10>> Yeah.
321. 10:10>> Right? Uh I don't want to ask you
322. 10:12something that you can just Google and
323. 10:15you will get the right answer, right?
324. 10:17Anyone can do that and that's not
325. 10:19demonstrated competence, that's
326. 10:21demonstrating you know how to use
327. 10:22Google. Yeah. And anyone can do that
328. 10:24these days. You know, we have a very
329. 10:26tech-savvy workforce. So, for me it was
330. 10:29important it's not just the ability to
331. 10:31just go and find information, but how do
332. 10:34you apply that information in very real
333. 10:37scenarios that you'll find yourself in
334. 10:39on the job.
335. 10:40>> Yeah. So, tell me about like how were
336. 10:42you able to detect that some people were
337. 10:44using AI and they weren't really
338. 10:46speaking from their own experience or
339. 10:49they didn't have deep answers. How did
340. 10:51you detect that?
341. 10:52>> It was actually really easy and I was
342. 10:54surprised at how how effective this was
343. 10:57because all of the questions were
344. 11:00constructed as answer from personal
345. 11:02narrative.
346. 11:03Well, first of all, there's the eyes.
347. 11:05>> [laughter]
348. 11:06>> The eyes don't lie.
349. 11:07>> Let me tell you about the eyes, okay?
350. 11:10When you when you're doing a video
351. 11:12interview kind of kind of like this and
352. 11:15you see somebody's eyes going over the
353. 11:18top and going like a typewriter, ding
354. 11:20ding,
355. 11:22>> [laughter]
356. 11:22>> you can see that they are reading the
357. 11:24answer first of all. That was my first
358. 11:27visual cue.
359. 11:28>> giveaway.
360. 11:29>> Like I understand if they're not making
361. 11:31eye contact because the camera is at a
362. 11:33weird place in laptops, right? But this
363. 11:35was a visual I could see their eyes
364. 11:37moving in a reading pattern
365. 11:39>> Wow.
366. 11:40>> across the top and it was so obvious to
367. 11:42me and distracting in the interview.
368. 11:44>> Cuz you're trying to connect. You need
369. 11:46eye contact.
370. 11:46>> You're trying to connect. I was trying
371. 11:48to make eye contact to look at them
372. 11:51um and get a feel for how what they were
373. 11:53like as a person
374. 11:55and it's I was you know, [snorts] the
375. 11:58eyes were avoiding me all the time.
376. 11:59[laughter] They were just reading.
377. 12:00>> Eric's over there like
378. 12:02>> Yeah, I'm trying to I was trying to make
379. 12:03make eye contact. I could not do it. And
380. 12:05then I feel oh, they're reading. And the
381. 12:07other dead giveaway was everybody knows
382. 12:10how AI answers
383. 12:12these things. Like I have a a thing now
384. 12:14where like I can tell almost what AI is
385. 12:17being used when I see like posts on
386. 12:19LinkedIn, right?
387. 12:20Every other post these days is just a
388. 12:23straight Claude output or a ChatGPT
389. 12:26output. And I can tell the difference
390. 12:27between the AIs cuz I use them on the
391. 12:29regular. So, I know when there's just
392. 12:33raw output being spat out by a prompt
393. 12:37versus genuine human thought going into
394. 12:39it.
395. 12:39>> It's called AI slop. And yes, it is a
396. 12:42dead giveaway that you didn't do your
397. 12:44own thinking. You had AI do your
398. 12:46thinking for you. And people lose
399. 12:48respect when they see that because it's
400. 12:50just like no, we want to hear your
401. 12:52thoughts. So, just a tip here, what I do
402. 12:54if I ever need AI for help with anything
403. 12:56is I'll write my own idea and then I'll
404. 12:58check it with AI and be like, "Hey,
405. 13:00don't take out my voice. Make sure my
406. 13:03voice stays intact. I want this to sound
407. 13:05like me, not like polished AI."
408. 13:08>> Yeah. We're like M dashes that are all
409. 13:10over the place. And I I had to tell my
410. 13:12AI one point. I'm like, "Nobody writes
411. 13:14with M dashes. What are you doing?"
412. 13:16Like, do you see this out in the wild?
413. 13:19>> So, you can add skills to your AI to
414. 13:22have it check. I think there's one
415. 13:23called like humanizer or something like
416. 13:25that. And that can check your you know,
417. 13:27your output and stuff like that. But, it
418. 13:29is true. We're in a new era. Everyone is
419. 13:31using AI. And now for my viewers and
420. 13:33subscribers, it's like, "Ooh, AI is
421. 13:35great because now finally I can present
422. 13:37my English as being correct and clear."
423. 13:41But, the thing that everyone needs to be
424. 13:42aware of is that not only will it be
425. 13:44correct and clear, but it will erase
426. 13:45your voice. Like, before you've even
427. 13:47finished developing your voice in
428. 13:49English, it's already erasing it. So,
429. 13:51just be really careful of that and don't
430. 13:54allow it to erase your voice, especially
431. 13:56because what sounds good and clear to
432. 13:57you to us sounds like, "Oh my gosh,
433. 14:00that's AI." Like, that is totally AI.
434. 14:02Did they even think that through or did
435. 14:04they just have a prompt think for them?
436. 14:06And you don't want that reputation of
437. 14:09being somebody that doesn't do their own
438. 14:11thinking because Well, I mean, I hope
439. 14:13you don't.
440. 14:14>> [laughter]
441. 14:15>> I don't.
442. 14:16>> I mean, yeah, you also have to think
443. 14:18like what is an interview, right?
444. 14:19>> Exactly.
445. 14:20>> An interview is I am the person who
446. 14:24needs a job filled and I there's a
447. 14:26specific skill set and ability to make
448. 14:29certain decisions and in the interview I
449. 14:31need to be able to evaluate that you are
450. 14:33capable of filling this role for me,
451. 14:36right? Anybody can go and read a prompt
452. 14:38from AI, but like when you are in that
453. 14:41hot seat, when you are in that position,
454. 14:42especially leadership positions, when
455. 14:44you're in that position and you need to
456. 14:46make a judgement call, I have to be able
457. 14:49to see that you can be trusted with that
458. 14:50judgement call.
459. 14:51>> Mhm.
460. 14:51>> And this not withstanding, the fact that
461. 14:54somebody's using AI in a deceptive
462. 14:56manner in an interview is already a red
463. 14:58flag for judgement calls because it
464. 15:01demonstrates a lack of integrity and so
465. 15:03that already like when I when I saw that
466. 15:06I was like ooh, like if if you're going
467. 15:09to not be honest with me about who you
468. 15:11are because that's that's really what
469. 15:13using AI to replace your voice is is
470. 15:16you're not answering those questions,
471. 15:18the AI is answering your those questions
472. 15:20and when you're doing so in a deceptive
473. 15:21manner, so in an interview where
474. 15:23somebody is asking you a question and
475. 15:25you're answering from
476. 15:27>> Mhm.
477. 15:27>> the AI, that's deception and that
478. 15:29doesn't bode well for the interview.
479. 15:31>> Yeah, and I think for me personally, if
480. 15:33I were to do any kind of interview with
481. 15:35anything, I honestly think AI would slow
482. 15:37me down because my brain my brain thinks
483. 15:40faster than AI. Like the amount of time
484. 15:43you know, and I trust my own words more
485. 15:46and the way I can articulate thoughts, I
486. 15:48trust my own voice and my own way of
487. 15:50expressing way more than I would trust
488. 15:52AI to express things for me. Like no,
489. 15:54thank you. Whenever I have AI do a
490. 15:56project for me, like I'm constantly
491. 15:58having to correct it. I'm constantly
492. 16:00having to be like, no, it's not like
493. 16:01that or stop saying like that. And some
494. 16:03people just take that raw output and
495. 16:05they go, okay, this is it and it's like,
496. 16:07oof, no, you know? So, what I would
497. 16:10encourage everyone to do is get to a
498. 16:12level where you can trust your voice and
499. 16:14express yourself because at the end of
500. 16:16the day, the person interviewing you,
501. 16:18first of all, they want you to be the
502. 16:19one. They They don't want to interview
503. 16:2120 people. It's exhausting to have to
504. 16:23interview so many people. So, if they
505. 16:24can get the right person on the first
506. 16:27interview, like that's amazing. So, they
507. 16:29want you to be that person, and I know
508. 16:31that sometimes, especially if English is
509. 16:33not your native language, you can feel
510. 16:34like, "Oh, but like I'm not good
511. 16:36enough." or whatever, but I feel like
512. 16:39having an accent or messing up your
513. 16:42grammar or whatever it is,
514. 16:43mispronouncing a few words is okay if
515. 16:46you can still demonstrate that that raw
516. 16:49knowledge and experience is there.
517. 16:51Wouldn't you agree? Like
518. 16:52>> Oh, absolutely.
519. 16:53>> Yeah, like we can work through an
520. 16:55accent. We can work through
521. 16:57mispronunciations or grammar, but what
522. 16:59we can't work through is you don't even
523. 17:01have the experience or the
524. 17:02understanding. And the problem is, what
525. 17:05if you do have the experience and the
526. 17:06understanding, but you're selling
527. 17:08yourself short by using AI and making it
528. 17:10look like you don't know what you're
529. 17:11talking about?
530. 17:11>> Right.
531. 17:12>> Cuz you're just reading an answer rather
532. 17:14than saying like, "Well, I went through
533. 17:16this and this is what happened."
534. 17:17>> Yeah.
535. 17:17>> Okay.
536. 17:18>> And and and that was the that was the
537. 17:19key was the answering was in the third
538. 17:22person.
539. 17:23>> Really?
540. 17:23>> Yeah.
541. 17:24>> What?
542. 17:24>> Because the AI answers as an AI. It
543. 17:27doesn't answer as a
544. 17:29>> So, you would
545. 17:29>> It can't It answer with a personal
546. 17:31narrative because the AI doesn't have
547. 17:33any personal narrative.
548. 17:34>> So, how would they have How would that
549. 17:36How would that work? Give me an example.
550. 17:37>> Oh, so again, that that same question.
551. 17:39Like, "Tell me when you needed a control
552. 17:42to be implemented and there was an
553. 17:44engineer or a business leader that was
554. 17:46giving you a hard time. How did you work
555. 17:48through that relationship?" And so, the
556. 17:50answer comes through uh when there is a
557. 17:52disagreement between an engineer and the
558. 17:55compliance professional, it is important
559. 17:57that everybody's voices are heard. Uh
560. 17:59leadership should be involved.
561. 18:02Right.
562. 18:02>> Like so vanilla. Oh my gosh.
563. 18:05>> answer. It's like It's the right answer,
564. 18:08but it's not You're not telling me a
565. 18:09story about something that happened to
566. 18:11you.
567. 18:11>> Yeah, and everybody should have a story
568. 18:13like that. That's not a hard story to
569. 18:15Yeah.
570. 18:16>> not a hard story to come up with. Oh,
571. 18:17let me tell you. One time, you know,
572. 18:19this And And the thing too is with on
573. 18:21the interview you're able to build
574. 18:23rapport.
575. 18:23>> Yeah.
576. 18:24>> You can tell stories. You can talk about
577. 18:26>> fun.
578. 18:26>> some of the drama that happened in your
579. 18:28last and like why it drove you crazy and
580. 18:30how what you had to navigate. You're
581. 18:32showing that you're human. And it's so
582. 18:35weird. A lot of people I think when they
583. 18:36think of interviews, they go into this
584. 18:38like box where they're like, I have to
585. 18:40wear a tie and I have to speak a certain
586. 18:42way and and they become less and less
587. 18:44human. And it's like, okay, the more
588. 18:46human you are actually, the more you can
589. 18:48connect with people in an interview, the
590. 18:50better chance you have of getting a
591. 18:52second interview or getting the job cuz
592. 18:54at the end of the day people are working
593. 18:55with people. We're not working with
594. 18:56>> And even doing the job.
595. 18:58>> Yeah.
596. 18:58>> And even doing the job. Working with
597. 19:00people is one of the things we're
598. 19:01looking for. So, that's
599. 19:03>> Because the interview is step one. If
600. 19:04you get hired, they have to work with
601. 19:06you every day. And
602. 19:07>> It's true. That's what happens.
603. 19:08>> Yeah. Like this so you have to present
604. 19:10who you really are and telling stories
605. 19:13and sharing personal experience is an
606. 19:15excellent way to connect. So, it's
607. 19:17actually really sad that people are
608. 19:20basically losing opportunities because
609. 19:22they're using AI. And the ironic thing
610. 19:24is they think they're doing the right
611. 19:26thing or the best thing. And it's like,
612. 19:28no. And yeah.
613. 19:30>> To to be fair, not everybody conducts
614. 19:32interviews this way. This was something
615. 19:34that I developed because of my own
616. 19:36philosophy on this and my own bad
617. 19:38experiences with the interviews where I
618. 19:40was asked really technical questions
619. 19:42that like could have been Googled and I
620. 19:44was like, what what are we doing here?
621. 19:46>> Yeah. Like
622. 19:47>> It it it it had no points to me to to do
623. 19:50that. Like anybody can do that. But
624. 19:52you're you're absolutely right that the
625. 19:54we're working with people. And so,
626. 19:56starting on step one in the interview
627. 19:58process demonstrating that you are a
628. 20:00relatable person is something that I was
629. 20:03actively looking for and I wanted to see
630. 20:05actually. In fact, the people that did
631. 20:07well in the interviews, they didn't have
632. 20:10necessarily perfect answers to the
633. 20:11questions. What they had were real
634. 20:13answers to the questions. Like not AI.
635. 20:16I actually what they they would tell me
636. 20:18I actually went through something like
637. 20:19this and
638. 20:21I had this one guy that was really
639. 20:23difficult to work with. I I had a a
640. 20:25control that was really difficult to
641. 20:26implement and I just had to, you know, I
642. 20:29involved leadership. We had multiple
643. 20:32meetings and to try to understand his
644. 20:34point of view so that we work together.
645. 20:36I'm like, that's a great story because
646. 20:38that's something that happens everywhere
647. 20:41where you have to work with other people
648. 20:43and negotiate with them in order to get
649. 20:45something done
650. 20:46>> Mhm.
651. 20:46>> and it's messy. The the way that it
652. 20:49happens is messy. And so when I ask
653. 20:51these questions, I'm not expecting like
654. 20:53a pol- if the word I the word that comes
655. 20:55to mind is sterile,
656. 20:56>> Mhm.
657. 20:57>> right? It's like a doctor's office.
658. 20:59Everything is absolutely clean and
659. 21:01devoid of um microscopic life, bacteria.
660. 21:04>> Mhm.
661. 21:04>> [laughter]
662. 21:05>> Like devoid of life, right?
663. 21:07>> Which is interesting because that's what
664. 21:08a lot of people think they need to
665. 21:10achieve in an interview and it's like
666. 21:12actually no, you don't have to be
667. 21:13perfect. You have to be human and you
668. 21:15have to show that you have experience
669. 21:17and that you know what you're talking
670. 21:18about and life is messy. Relationships
671. 21:21can be messy, work environments can be
672. 21:23messy and we have to navigate that and
673. 21:26everybody knows and so when you also
674. 21:28have to think when you're doing an
675. 21:29interview, you're interviewing somewhere
676. 21:31someone higher up, they have very likely
677. 21:33been in your position so they know
678. 21:35exactly what it's like. And so by
679. 21:38talking about your real experiences,
680. 21:40they're going to be like, yep, been
681. 21:41there, done that.
682. 21:42>> Yeah.
683. 21:42>> I can relate, you know, I know what it's
684. 21:44like, you know, so
685. 21:46>> Um when we were lovely ticket boys.
686. 21:48>> [laughter]
687. 21:52>> Ticket girls and boys.
688. 21:54>> ticket girls and [laughter] boys.
689. 21:55>> Um okay, so I think you told me,
690. 21:56speaking of ticket girls, I think you
691. 21:58told me there was a woman actually that
692. 22:00did very well in the interview.
693. 22:01>> Yes.
694. 22:02>> So talk to us about her. What did she
695. 22:03do?
696. 22:04>> She answered everything with personal
697. 22:07narrative. And I And again, the answers
698. 22:10weren't polished necessarily, but she
699. 22:12also asked clarifying questions. And
700. 22:14this was This was like as soon as she
701. 22:17asked a couple of clarifying questions,
702. 22:19I was like,
703. 22:21like, this is what you're looking for in
704. 22:23these jobs because when you ask somebody
705. 22:26a question and they immediately jump to
706. 22:27an answer they're like, "Oh, I know. Do
707. 22:29this."
708. 22:30>> Mhm.
709. 22:31>> You're almost always wrong because the
710. 22:34the questions that we deal with in
711. 22:37security and IT
712. 22:39it's not a single variable that you're
713. 22:40solving for. There it is
714. 22:43sometimes 10, 20 different variables in
715. 22:46play at once. And if you jump to an
716. 22:49answer without solving for all those
717. 22:51variables, you're going to get the wrong
718. 22:53answer. So somebody who asks clarifying
719. 22:56questions and is like, "Hey, when you
720. 22:58say this, is this already in place? Do
721. 23:01we have this tool available to us? Is
722. 23:04this document or policy already enforced
723. 23:07or does it yet need to be created?" She
724. 23:09was asking questions like this was my
725. 23:11compliance interview.
726. 23:13And I knew exactly where she was asking
727. 23:15these questions but these are exactly
728. 23:17the questions you need to ask before you
729. 23:19answer the question. And then when she
730. 23:20would answer the question, she would
731. 23:22answer the question
732. 23:24correctly based on the frameworks that
733. 23:26were assumed and also with the correct
734. 23:29logical decision-making after
735. 23:31establishing we have this in place, we
736. 23:33don't have this in place, we have this
737. 23:34in place, we have we don't have this in
738. 23:36place. She was able to order what needed
739. 23:38to happen first, what needed to happen
740. 23:40next and it was just like a dream come
741. 23:43true in the interview.
742. 23:44>> Somebody who think.
743. 23:45>> That's that's what you want as a leader.
744. 23:49Is you want somebody that can get a
745. 23:52problem and solve it themselves.
746. 23:54>> Yeah, so this is called critical
747. 23:56thinking and actually asking clarifying
748. 23:58questions is a hallmark of somebody who
749. 24:00is a critical thinker. And when we're
750. 24:02not critical thinking, right? When we're
751. 24:04not doing that or we should be, it's
752. 24:06like you get a question and you just
753. 24:08answer it without thinking about other
754. 24:10possible solutions and what could
755. 24:12possibly affect this. And I think one of
756. 24:14the problems is that people think that
757. 24:17there's this expectation that to show
758. 24:20intelligence you have to be able to
759. 24:21answer immediately. And that's actually
760. 24:23not a hallmark of intelligence. A
761. 24:25hallmark of intelligence is well, hang
762. 24:27on, hold on, let's back up, let's
763. 24:29analyze this from this angle, let's talk
764. 24:30about this. Well, what if this other
765. 24:32thing were to happen? That is critical
766. 24:33thinking. So, you're analyzing all the
767. 24:35different possibilities and what things
768. 24:37are going to affect other things. And
769. 24:39this is how we have to think, right? And
770. 24:41this is what leadership is going to be
771. 24:43looking for. They are looking for
772. 24:44critical thinkers. So, when you're in an
773. 24:45interview, it is not bad to ask
774. 24:48questions. In fact, it's like as you
775. 24:50just said, it's really good. And I also
776. 24:51want to confirm because I have a friend
777. 24:53and mentor who is a CTO.
778. 24:55>> that stand for?
779. 24:56>> Uh Chief Technology Officer.
780. 24:58>> Okay. Yeah, so he's a CTO. He's been a
781. 25:00CTO for I don't know how many decades.
782. 25:02And he said the same thing cuz he also
783. 25:03conducts interviews and sometimes we
784. 25:05talk and he rants about, "Oh, the
785. 25:07interviews and what hell Like, why don't
786. 25:09people know how to do this?" And that's
787. 25:11one of the things. He's like, "When I
788. 25:12ask a question, ask me a question. Let's
789. 25:14talk about it. Let's dive into it. Let's
790. 25:16solve it together. Like, I'm trying to
791. 25:17see how you think. Like, I'm not just
792. 25:20testing what you know. Like, I want to
793. 25:23because on the job, you're going to have
794. 25:25problems and you're going to have to
795. 25:26solve them together. And you're going to
796. 25:27have to talk about possible solutions.
797. 25:29You're going to have to dissect things.
798. 25:31You have to think critically. And so,
799. 25:33the perfect place to show your critical
800. 25:35thinking skills is in the interview. So,
801. 25:38show up with questions to ask them.
802. 25:40Clarify when they say something and
803. 25:42you're not sure. Like, don't just invent
804. 25:44something to try to appear intelligent.
805. 25:47Your intelligence will show through by
806. 25:48how you talk about the situation.
807. 25:51>> Right. Couldn't have said it better
808. 25:52myself. That's [laughter] That's
809. 25:53absolutely true. Everything you said.
810. 25:55>> Yeah. Okay, cool. I feel like we could
811. 25:58talk forever about this, but we all
812. 25:59already gave some good insight here. And
813. 26:02we talked really fast, so
814. 26:04That was good. This is This is a regular
815. 26:06speed conversation. Did it feel fast to
816. 26:08you at all?
817. 26:10>> I think this is our normal talking.
818. 26:11>> This is our normal talk. Yeah.
819. 26:12>> We both had a little a little bit of
820. 26:13coffee earlier, so you know, there's a
821. 26:14little bit of that going on.
822. 26:16>> Yeah. So, what what we need to know from
823. 26:17you guys in the comments. One, did you
824. 26:19still understand me cuz I get a lot of
825. 26:21comments on my videos saying like, "Why
826. 26:23do I understand you so well? And I don't
827. 26:26understand other people." So, I want to
828. 26:27know, do you still understand me when I
829. 26:28speak at this rate? And what do you
830. 26:31think of Eric? He's cool, huh?
831. 26:32>> [laughter]
832. 26:33>> Do you want him to come back for more
833. 26:34conversations? Let us know.
834. 26:36>> Yep.
835. 26:36>> Tell us something you learned in the
836. 26:38comments. Uh what else?
837. 26:41>> Don't use AI in your interviews.
838. 26:42>> Don't use AI. Okay, uh
839. 26:43>> Please.
840. 26:44>> Like the video if you learned something.
841. 26:46Subscribe to the channel. What else do
842. 26:48we say?
843. 26:48>> You're in good hands. Uh she's great.
844. 26:51>> Oh, thank [laughter] you. Thank you.
845. 26:53You know what I will say? I will say
846. 26:54that when I hear you speak, and I've
847. 26:56known this about you, I do have a way of
848. 26:59speaking that is, I would say, simpler
849. 27:01compared to you. So, I don't know. I'd
850. 27:03have to analyze it more. I'm not sure if
851. 27:05it's your sentence structure. You tend
852. 27:06to use more higher-level words than I
853. 27:09do.
854. 27:09>> I use a lot of technical jargon.
855. 27:11>> Well, technical jargon related to your
856. 27:12work, but also when you're not even
857. 27:14talking about your work, you're just
858. 27:15expressing yourself in general. Like, I
859. 27:17just noticed this about you. You tend to
860. 27:19use more, like, higher-level words, you
861. 27:22know? There's probably a word for that.
862. 27:24And I'm just saying higher-level, but
863. 27:25I'm sure there's a a better word. But,
864. 27:27like, this is something also about my
865. 27:28speech. I think I just like
866. 27:30communicating at this level because I
867. 27:33feel like it well, it comes naturally to
868. 27:35me. I'm not as smart as he is. I'm just
869. 27:37>> No, I It's has nothing to to do with
870. 27:40intelligence. It's a learned behavior
871. 27:42because I speak to engineers and
872. 27:45business leaders all day, every day. And
873. 27:48there's just certain things that we talk
874. 27:50about and certain
875. 27:52language that we use that it that
876. 27:54vernacular just becomes
877. 27:56>> Yeah.
878. 27:56>> normal.
879. 27:57>> But, I will say you used to be like this
880. 27:58even when you were in high school, you
881. 28:00were in college. Um
882. 28:02>> big words.
883. 28:03>> Yeah. So, it could just be that. It
884. 28:05could just be like you like big words
885. 28:06and you like use big words and you like
886. 28:08using them. And
887. 28:10>> big words and I cannot lie.
888. 28:11>> [laughter]
889. 28:12>> Let us know in the comments if you know
890. 28:14what he's referencing.
891. 28:17Um anyways, uh yeah. So,
892. 28:21this is Eric. He's awesome. And thank
893. 28:24you for watching our video.
894. 28:26>> Bye, everyone.
895. 28:26>> Bye.