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Cruel Justice Episode 23: Kwame Ajamu and Hannah Kubbins Discuss Death Penalty Abolition in Ohio — Transcript

by Witness To Innocence · 6,310 words · 1,077 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:02hello everyone
0:03uh it's a great 2020s
0:062021 starting off this year uh we have a
0:10lot
0:10of uh interesting people lining up for
0:13this year's shows you know before last
0:16year we had to search for people
0:18but now we at the point of we are
0:20actually getting some
0:21um a lot of people involved with some
0:24great information
0:26so today i want to welcome everybody
0:28back to another episode i think this
0:30episode 25
0:31yes we have made it to episode 25 of
0:34crude
0:35justice and power by witness the
0:37innocent hosted by yours truly herman
0:39lindsey for those that don't know
0:41on florida's 23rd death row exoneree
0:45uh i'm also the secretary of board of
0:47witness to innocent
0:49but the great thing about the show today
0:51we actually have the chairman of the
0:54board here again
0:56but this time he's going to actually
0:59host the show and i will be like the
1:02co-host
1:03so what i mean uh
1:07but first let me introduce a great uh
1:10no matter of fact i'll let you introduce
1:12uh quebec quebec
1:14welcome to being your host well thank
1:16you for allowing me
1:17on your platform as such as everyone
1:21know i am kwame you come john
1:23john the chairman of witness stance
1:26um with me today is uh my
1:30extraordinary uh colleague from aussie
1:33that is ohio wants to stop executions
1:36hannah coogans
1:37uh hannah say hello right quick
1:40hey everyone thank you uh and uh we will
1:43be discussing
1:44uh ohio's uh points here
1:48uh to eradicate uh capital punishment
1:51um there is a lot of things going on in
1:54the great state of ohio
1:57despite you know so many people not
1:59wanting this to happen
2:01we are moving forward with a campaign
2:03that we hope should have
2:05great responses and really really really
2:09good
2:09um ending here in uh
2:13capital punishment in the state of ohio
2:15we did
2:16just recently do a news interview with
2:19our state representatives um nikki
2:23antonio and steve hoffman who are
2:26pushing the bill
2:27um house bill to eradicate
2:31capital punishment were you going to say
2:33something there
2:35uh to eradicate uh capital punishment
2:37and uh
2:38it is a a combined effort of uh
2:41bipartisans with uh both
2:43sides of the aisle finally we can cheer
2:46that on finally
2:47and uh it is a strong bipartisan support
2:50uh effort that's being made
2:52uh towards uh this event uh we hope
2:55very very soon to be successful and uh
2:58in the near future
3:00if uh god willing uh witness the
3:03innocent and honestly will be
3:05there to see these things come on to
3:07federation
3:08um i want to uh at this time just
3:11mention right quickly
3:12uh our um mobility
3:16here in um this campaign uh it is
3:19everywhere
3:20um and uh the greatest part about it is
3:23that most recently
3:24uh witness to innocence has been uh
3:27privileged with being able to be
3:29um interviewed and videotaped by
3:32national geographic magazine to which uh
3:35we will be
3:36uh coming out in march and our uh
3:39the first time ever um humans and
3:42uh capital punishment have been a theme
3:45in
3:46this magazine and we're delighted to
3:50over the fact that we will also use
3:54all of these uh measures in our
3:56campaigns and procedures
3:58uh hannes i want to ask you um
4:02about aussie and our combined efforts
4:05um if you will from a legislative uh
4:09standpoint yeah would it be helpful to
4:11give some background on the organization
4:13before jumping
4:14into legislative stuff absolutely yeah
4:17so ohio wants to stop executions uh otzi
4:20for short was founded in the 80s and
4:22they were
4:22founded as a response to the punishment
4:25you know potentially coming back to the
4:26state
4:27so obviously at the time there were
4:29there's no
4:30room to do any legislative action to
4:32repeal because they were just talking
4:33about bringing it back
4:34so for a while it was very much a
4:36volunteer based um you know vigil
4:38holding protest hosting
4:40organization that did a lot of great
4:41work in the community as time went on
4:44um we were able to work with the
4:46legislature to implement and work on
4:48some reforms to the system because
4:49repeal still was not very
4:51much a possibility so for example
4:54one of these reforms was uh signed into
4:57law in january by governor dewine it was
4:59it is a bill that will exempt
5:01individuals with serious mental illness
5:03death sentence going forward
5:05um so that was a great first step but
5:07over the last two years i've been having
5:09conversations with members of the
5:10general assembly along with
5:12this coalition we've built here and i
5:15think that
5:16a lot of folks in the movement um they
5:19used to think this way that the right
5:20was in favor of keeping capital
5:22punishment and the left was opposed to
5:23it
5:24but as kwami alluded to this has got
5:26unprecedented bipartisan support
5:28uh we're living in a very divi divisive
5:31political climate in this country right
5:33but the left right everyone in between
5:35can look at the system and agree that it
5:37is irreparable it is irreparably flawed
5:40um it convicts innocent people all the
5:42time
5:43you know it i know death penalty info
5:45center just came out with
5:47their special report on the innocence
5:48epidemic which was was that
5:50coordinated with the national geographic
5:52um story was that all kind of
5:54like uh yes yes yes okay i thought they
5:57had come out like around the same time
5:59if not the same day
6:00but anyway that report discovered that
6:02ohio is home to two additional death row
6:05exonerees
6:06charles toliver and then um i'm so sorry
6:09the last name is pearson can you remind
6:10me
6:11yeah thomas pearson and charles caliber
6:13okay thank you
6:14um so that that moves our our exoneree
6:17number up to 11 which means for
6:19every five executions in the state of
6:21ohio there's been one exoneration
6:22because we've um carried out 56
6:24executions since the reading statement
6:26of the policy
6:27so you know that this repeal bill has
6:31been introduced several times before
6:32it's been
6:34introduced and championed by senator
6:35antonio and her colleagues over the
6:38years but this is different this is real
6:40people are fed up with this system they
6:43know it's not working they know it's not
6:44worth retaining
6:45it's not keeping communities safe it's
6:47harming murder victim family members
6:49and convicting innocent people all the
6:50time and so
6:53you know we see the support in the
6:54legislature and that's also extending to
6:56the to public opinion
6:57we did a poll last winter
7:01and asked the question of folks you know
7:03do you prefer
7:05the death penalty or life without the
7:07possibility of parole
7:09for folks who have committed aggravated
7:10murder and almost 60 percent of folks
7:12who were polled said that they support
7:14a life without the possibility of parole
7:16punishment when given those two
7:17options so i think what we're seeing
7:21here is a result of
7:22decades worth of work and educating the
7:24public and educating the legislature on
7:26why this system is so broken
7:28and people finally get it um i'll stop
7:31there and see if you have other
7:32questions because i feel like i've been
7:34rambling a little bit
7:35so no this is great and actually it's a
7:37segue for me to speak about how
7:40for the last three years uh inside of
7:44my organization witnessing innocent i
7:46have been slowly incorporating an
7:49ideology of
7:50each one teach one and so with
7:54uh having met jennifer pryor and
7:57annoying of her her responsibilities
8:01there at aussie
8:02i was thinking that somewhere down the
8:04line we could uh
8:06get together and merge with this
8:08ideology and her
8:10constant um uh battering there
8:13as you would um in the community because
8:17i know that she is very
8:18uh very responsible in that area and so
8:22i'm thinking that maybe
8:23uh at some point we can merge and have
8:25this um just ideologically spread out
8:27even more uh
8:28like a bigger uh community initiative um
8:32one of the things that um is so
8:35frightening about the work that we do
8:37is um if whenever there is a possibility
8:40of there not being
8:41enough education uh behind us in the
8:44community
8:44you know if we uh have to go and uh
8:48always always uh look for a source of
8:51educational
8:52uh resources for the community it slows
8:56down the process of us
8:57uh tallying forward um and so i'm
9:00thinking that
9:00maybe we can make this in a joint effort
9:03you know to
9:04at the same time that we are in the
9:06trenches
9:07we can also be in the libraries at the
9:10schools on town halls
9:12speaking with the community as well as
9:14we do with
9:16our state representatives and in my case
9:19um
9:20the prosecutorial um
9:23climates that would have us when we come
9:24in with our a and j
9:26um organizational work uh uh
9:29shops and so i think that you know you
9:32know if we can make that happen
9:33it would be just a little bit more
9:35smooth to say of course this is just my
9:37one
9:38one uh person uh uh way of thinking
9:42uh but i i also think that uh
9:45having the ability to lean on each other
9:48is what
9:49uh constitute uh the fabric and support
9:52for lack of a better word yes sir herman
9:56i want to bring to mind that uh
10:00we just introduced this bill and uh
10:02seminar bill in florida
10:04and you know i've i've talked to a
10:07couple of people in different states
10:09and right now they're looking at the
10:11fact that ohio
10:13is accomplishing this bill you know as
10:16y'all is the front leader y'all
10:18y'all them is one of the most greatest
10:21things
10:22and one of the things everybody is
10:24sitting back for
10:25like for instance here in florida to
10:28deal with pushing our bill
10:30is we're looking at what was done in
10:33ohio
10:34and and and what was the most
10:38successful uh points to be made to get
10:41this
10:42where it is now
10:45um you go ahead and well let me say this
10:48first hannah and then you could bring it
10:50home because i think you would have a
10:51more powerful point um but i think that
10:55uh the steadfastness of of first and
10:58foremost um
10:59those two uh founding uh senators of
11:02this bill
11:03uh nikki antonio and steve huffman
11:06is to be uh you know reckoned with um
11:09they never gave up uh you know um i can
11:12go back as far as 2011 and i believe uh
11:15senator antonio's you know trying to
11:18push forth the bill to end capital
11:20punishment in the state of ohio
11:21uh and then the fact that in in
11:25uh the masses realizing uh how
11:28frutal this um this whole policy is
11:31anyway of you know waiting 40 30 20
11:3415 years to execute someone and then you
11:37find out the two people is is innocent
11:39in the same pod
11:40um has taken a toll on you know our
11:43societal
11:44uh moral compass so to speak
11:47and and so now the numbers where uh
11:50at one time what for the capital
11:52punishment have flipped and now they're
11:54opposing capital punishment and i think
11:57that it is the steadfastnessness
11:59uh as well as all of the parlay that got
12:02us
12:02uh to this a very strong bipartisan
12:05uh support system just my opinion
12:08yeah and speak um specifically to the
12:10smi bill because that's that's what you
12:12all are doing in florida now right
12:13you're pursuing the
12:14mental illness exemption so that bill
12:17took a while to get through about five
12:18or six years and i think um
12:20to speak to kwame's point a little more
12:22it absolutely has to do with the um
12:24perseverance and the tenacity of folks
12:26who are pushing this through
12:28but i think that this is a very core
12:31aspect of the work that we do and it's
12:33education education is
12:34always the first step because support
12:36for the death penalty is a mile wide and
12:38an inch deep once you get folks in a
12:39room and talk about the issues they
12:41start to realize oh this is like
12:43horrible policy this does not make sense
12:45it's not worth retaining so i think that
12:48constant education of both the community
12:51and of the legislature was really what
12:53got the job done
12:55um and i think that bill was was
12:58particularly
12:59you know challenging just because you're
13:01talking about two pretty controversial
13:03things right you're talking about the
13:04death penalty and you're talking about
13:05mental
13:06health um and there are still so
13:09there's still so much stigma around
13:11around mental health and how we
13:12um treat and care for folks with
13:16severe mental illness so it was
13:18definitely an uphill battle but i think
13:20just the constant
13:21um education and reiterating of of why
13:25we need this because a lot of the
13:26pushback had to do with well don't we
13:28have
13:29um you know not guilty by reason of
13:30insanity well they're two very different
13:32things
13:32as if you you know take a closer look at
13:34it but um does that answer your question
13:36about the smi
13:37bill
13:41yes herman yes uh it does you know um
13:46you know i know we're covered around
13:48things are very difficult
13:50for uh the challenges but i see that
13:53y'all got the job done
13:55um kwame um
14:00that's just opinion question with this
14:04bill intact and and i want people to
14:06understand the most important
14:08part about it you know for instance we
14:10had lisa montgomery on the federal level
14:13you know and she had a great mental
14:16illness and you know there's
14:20many others and now that's innocent and
14:23as
14:24actually if you take the ones that
14:27is innocent out and then you take the
14:29ones
14:30that actually have mental problems i
14:33don't think you have many
14:35people left on death row and now
14:39you're saying that are just guilty
14:41criminals guilty
14:49and i think that's one of the things
14:51that
14:52politicians look at is things like that
14:56you know and what the public think
14:58but as she said education is the key
15:01and that's what we're a firm believer
15:03here at witness to innocent
15:04and that's what we do we try to go
15:06around and we try to educate people on
15:09what's going on but how would this
15:12bill help someone like
15:15um that have been through so much abuse
15:19and trauma today that clicked
15:21and decided you know at the
15:25last moment just snap
15:28so that that is the point of the bill
15:31right
15:31um because i want people to understand
15:36that this bill is not to say uh
15:40we're trying to protect uh someone we're
15:43trying to address
15:44actual issue exactly
15:48and and that is that is the point as as
15:51i say
15:51uh because the um the
15:55presence of the bill is is like you said
15:57not to exonerate because of guilt or
15:59innocence
16:00but a matter of fact and the matter of
16:03fact being that
16:04this person uh male or female black or
16:06white
16:07young or old and especially uh young
16:11uh is has been victimized themselves
16:13mentally
16:14uh has has been bankrupt uh emotionally
16:18you know and has been put a cinder in in
16:22terms of their um uh whole
16:25uh mental psychic and so um
16:28yeah um you have men and women who have
16:31committed atrocious
16:33crimes uh against society um
16:36but it is these men and women who have
16:39committed these crimes
16:40based on uh i take you back to right
16:43when i went to prison i was in prison
16:45with um
16:47the uh saint valentine's day murderer
16:50um you know he heard voices from the
16:53car in the backyard that sent him in the
16:55house to kill 11 people
16:57you know um who am i or you
17:01uh someone who considers ourselves a
17:04somewhat sound mind um
17:08to question whether or not um that
17:11person believed that
17:12you know we live and die believing lies
17:14man to be a truth in our mind and our
17:16heart
17:17so you're getting into a psychic
17:19something that's way
17:20beyond actually your abilities to
17:23to measure and so these people are yeah
17:27they messed up they've been victimized
17:30either sexually
17:31some have been victimized mentally
17:34physically sexually emotionally
17:36spiritually some have been uh just
17:39locked in cages in the basement in the
17:41dark
17:42you know and then they're released you
17:44see all the time just with a with a dog
17:46which i don't believe in keeping pets
17:48for that reason
17:49but with a dog kept on the chain in the
17:51backyard the minute that chain
17:53breaks for whatever reason you may not
17:55see the dog no more just running through
17:56the neighborhood you know
17:58either biting people or chasing cars so
18:01yeah the psychic change um
18:04and it continues to do so uh i'm i'm a
18:07victim you are a victim herman
18:09of having been isolated and and put into
18:12uh
18:12such a very headless situation where
18:16nothing was there but uh your mentality
18:18and
18:19it was challenged so you know that um
18:22when it's further and there are people
18:24who are far beyond
18:26the mental states and capacities of
18:28which we have suffered
18:29um there is a problem a challenging
18:32problem and i don't think that you
18:33should put that person to death
18:35i really don't think you should try to
18:37help them ease
18:38the turmoil that's going on within
18:39themselves yeah
18:41and so when we were um you know getting
18:43that smi bill through the legislature we
18:45kept emphasizing that these folks need
18:47need treatment not a death sentence and
18:49so with this bill
18:51um there's a pre-trial hearing that
18:53would determine whether or not someone
18:55did suffer from a serious mental illness
18:56at the time the crime was committed
18:59and if it's determined that they do have
19:00serious mental illness then
19:02death penalty is off the table so that's
19:04how the bill is going to operate here
19:07and
19:07though it took a while to get it through
19:09the legislature i think it was really
19:10important that it did take that time
19:12because sitting in committee hearings
19:14um the death penalty as as a whole as a
19:17as a flawed system kept coming up as a
19:19discussion
19:20so you know there were questions about
19:23well you know if this is retroactive
19:25then why you know
19:26we're going to be putting victims
19:27through like more pain if folks can seek
19:29some sort of relief
19:30and it just brings up the fact that like
19:33well if we didn't have the death penalty
19:35you know folks who are left behind after
19:37a heinous crime
19:38can mourn peacefully and they don't have
19:40to keep waiting and waiting years and
19:42years for an execution that
19:44most of the time doesn't even happen so
19:47um it's it's good to see that uh you all
19:49are doing that work in florida too
19:50because i think it's it sparked a lot of
19:52important conversations and it got us to
19:53where we are today which is
19:55in the position to repeal ohio's death
19:57penalty with by
19:58bipartisan support in both the house and
20:00the senate
20:01absolutely you know one of the reasons i
20:04like this bill
20:05is because you know i i know
20:10we we talk about the issues in the um
20:13uh justice systems you know we always
20:16talk about the issues the
20:17justice system but you know one of the
20:20things i like to bring
20:21out is society at some point society
20:24have to take
20:25step up take responsibility and and
20:28one of the reasons i say that is because
20:31you know
20:31i don't i don't want nobody to
20:33misunderstand what i'm saying
20:34because i'm just using this example but
20:37anytime it's a child
20:39or elderly woman or a certain type of
20:42victim involved in a crime
20:44a person really don't get a fair trial
20:46because the
20:47hearing with the media going on
20:50you know uh when they go through trial
20:53the victim picture is sitting up on a
20:55big screen
20:56tv and the fact that uh most people in
20:59society feel like
21:01just because the police caught this
21:03person that
21:04they actually committed the crime they
21:06did to this
21:08particular like victim say for instance
21:10a child so it's very hard to get a fair
21:12trial because
21:13it's been plenty cases now that uh uh
21:17uh a case has been overturned where
21:21is the very episodes uh of these very
21:23type of cases
21:24has been in effect so
21:28this i said that to say this it is
21:31even more difficult now for people
21:34in society to understand that some of
21:37these crimes are happening
21:38through a person that went through so
21:41much dramatic
21:43trauma in their life until
21:46they don't lead us now and they have to
21:49understand it's a difference
21:50between a person with common sense
21:54uh going on and applying a crime
21:57to a person that it has so much trauma
22:00built up inside of them
22:02and so much mental illness that has
22:04never been addressed
22:05and they just snapped and
22:08actually committed a crime and people
22:10need a society
22:12it's a it's a very thin line but people
22:15need to understand
22:16the difference between that so they can
22:19understand
22:20that here we're fighting for the
22:22military illness
22:24we're not fighting for the those that
22:27just
22:27you know play not guilty yes we we do
22:30believe that
22:31you know the death penalty should not be
22:33intact period
22:34you know and that's because we believe
22:37on the right to preserve human life
22:39but society has to step up
22:43and understand the difference between
22:46the mental
22:47state of a person the mental state
22:51and and you know it's like
22:54when we was going through it aquaman
22:57you know it we might have had
23:00sense and because we were wrongfully
23:05convicted
23:06now we got so much trauma because we
23:08don't been in top ain't no
23:09in the jail cell how many people that we
23:11knew actually
23:12got executed from these people and we
23:14wonder if they was innocent
23:16and then how many people on there now
23:20it hurts because we can't get in there
23:22and pull them out
23:23when it's a strong pocket i mean look at
23:25julius jones case
23:27let you rock and read case you know how
23:30you think us
23:30people that's been exonerated feel
23:33trying to fight for these people we
23:34can't go in there and pull them out
23:35that's adding more trauma because
23:37it's connection
23:41so you know our military illness
23:45which is normally called what pspts
23:50you know i suffer from depression you
23:53know and things like that but you have
23:55people that's out there
23:56that has not been able to uh
24:00uh address their immune mental illness
24:04you know and a lot of officers don't
24:06even know how to deal with cases with
24:08uh uh mental illness like
24:12we had a case down here frankly he
24:15didn't even have an
24:16iq to know and they don't talk them into
24:18confession
24:20and this is how they treated our mental
24:22illness
24:23so now society we need to step up and
24:25protect these one
24:27that has that mental illness because a
24:29lot of times
24:30us as society has filled them
24:34better yeah we have to we have to step
24:37up in our
24:38educational processes this this is
24:40hannah equal did as well this is uh
24:42what's very very important and a large
24:46element of what's missing as well um
24:49as long as we can um
24:54valley forward so to speak um
24:57it's fine but we have to educate as well
25:01um you know we have to it's very
25:04important
25:06that was very passionate brother i have
25:08a question for him
25:10with covert you know i could see you
25:13know even though you're doing your hair
25:14and
25:15you just relax um what is it with this
25:18hair
25:20i don't know that's the most common joke
25:23you know with women you can do there
25:24don't
25:25mess with the weight do the hair you
25:27know uh
25:28but anyway uh
25:32i i've um
25:35on this road for the difficult uh
25:37challenge as
25:38you have already been uh through to
25:42to get through especially with kova if
25:45i was that asked for um
25:48some advice uh for instance
25:52we're pushing this bill in florida and
25:54we're
25:55starting the campaign to back it up what
25:59what um points
26:02or advice would you give me to
26:05to get this to be a successful bill
26:08where uh here in florida
26:12sure um the thing about the death
26:16penalty is that
26:17we're on the right side of history you
26:19know we have the facts we have the data
26:21we have the numbers we have the stories
26:23all of those things are on our side
26:25right
26:25so i think keeping that in mind and just
26:27reinforcing those and and
26:29you know ramping up the the grassroots
26:31engagement and
26:32organizing um educating we know we
26:34talked about that at length already i
26:36think those are
26:37um all great things to keep in mind just
26:40remembering that we are right on this
26:42and we are going to win on this issue
26:44whether it's smi or full out abolition
26:47um i think we're gonna accomplish both
26:49personally but
26:50um does that help at all i know that's
26:53kind of like broad
26:54but um yeah
26:57i mean i mean me personally i could
27:00understand
27:01um where are you going with this but
27:06what i guess what i'm more looking at is
27:08see one of the things i like to do on
27:10this show
27:10is let people quite understand this
27:13process because
27:14a lot of people don't understand this
27:16process the hard work you do
27:17behind it and it's like that so
27:22you know i was for me that's cool
27:26but i was like
27:29i can i can give you more concrete
27:31examples
27:32if that's helpful it's for the people
27:34it's for the people it's like
27:36you know it's for the people to
27:38understand because you know
27:39someone like yourself or i can go in and
27:42we can
27:43do a lot of things if not we we know how
27:45to put things together to
27:47to create this uh happening but i think
27:50people
27:51uh need to understand the hard work that
27:54that's behind it and um the
27:58maybe some of the pros and cons you know
28:01i mean if that's not too much that'd be
28:02accidental no i'm just trying to figure
28:05out this way to answer this so straight
28:08up
28:08um if folks want to see this happen i'm
28:11thinking of like the grassroots right
28:12now community members people in the
28:14community
28:14your legislators need to hear from you
28:16and there are folks in the state of
28:17florida that are doing this work and
28:19trying to get this through
28:20so absolutely make sure to support those
28:23organizations that are doing the work
28:25and call your legislators host
28:26a virtual event with your local
28:28organization with wti
28:30um tell your you know spread the word
28:33you know to your friends your community
28:34members things like that
28:36um i think that's a good start is to
28:39just get connected with those
28:40organizations in the state and then they
28:42can kind of guide you as to what works
28:43best
28:44in their legislature um i mean
28:48in ohio we have a kind of a multi all
28:51the
28:51all the campaigns that have you know
28:52repealed the death penalty have a
28:53multi-faceted
28:55campaign and so we've been really
28:56focusing on mobilizing um
28:59people who have lost loved ones to
29:00murder and getting and getting their
29:01stories out there because
29:03at the end of the day it's not about me
29:05it's about the folks who have been
29:06impacted by this and we want to elevate
29:07those impacted voices
29:09so tapping into those networks and
29:10making sure that they're being heard
29:12um talking to members of uh law
29:15enforcement current and former
29:17um who maybe have you know changed their
29:20mind on the issue and getting them to
29:21have those conversations with with
29:23decision makers and lawmakers
29:24um but i i could go on about the
29:27different folks you could mobilize
29:28and get involved but i do think it
29:30starts with making sure you're
29:31supporting your local
29:32um organization that's fighting to
29:34repeal the death penalty and they can
29:36they can help you from there and you do
29:38have some really smart and capable folks
29:39working down there in that state to get
29:40this done
29:41so um does that give you more of a
29:43concrete
29:44uh help or yeah i mean yeah yeah
29:47that's this is great that's great thank
29:49you uh
29:52kawaii
29:54here you know chairman of board
29:58you know uh you're doing a lot of great
30:01things
30:01and you're part of something that
30:05a lot of states are looking up to
30:09right now uh um
30:12everybody sitting back on this waiting
30:14on this deal was waiting on this
30:16building
30:17wanting to know what is done in ohio
30:21and you know uh we talked we even talked
30:24uh
30:24at one of the court meetings where we
30:26were saying
30:27we need to get more done in ohio
30:30and as soon as we talked about that here
30:33it is
30:34three years later you got a successful
30:37bill
30:37going through how do you feel
30:41about that work coming from uh
30:45exonery perspective
30:48i'm elated uh i i actually can't wait to
30:52put my little piece in our uh newspaper
30:56to tell everybody in the organization
30:58how i feel
30:59uh yeah i'm elated um as you know herman
31:02ever since
31:03um the first day that i came to witness
31:06anderson i've i've always felt that
31:09witnesses should be in a certain place
31:11in this abolitionist movement
31:13and um if given opportunity uh
31:17that i could direct you to that place i
31:19think that um
31:20not just through my source of leadership
31:24but the effect that
31:25we were able to incorporate um in all
31:29former deaf role survivor
31:32leadership with uh kirk bloodsworth
31:35and yourself being the secretary as well
31:38in the board of trustees
31:40um that we were able to make this
31:43more successful than i even imagined and
31:46so you know i'm i'm very very proud of
31:49that
31:49and uh to aussie and uh hannah
31:53and her coming into this position as
31:56director i also
31:57am proud to have been a part of that
31:59growth there because i watched her too
32:02come into um this position and i know
32:05that uh
32:07we have joined very powerful for this
32:09this is emotional for me
32:11but i know that we have come a long way
32:14uh
32:14together and seeing this through and
32:16it's like you know like cuddling my own
32:18little kid yeah
32:19because i'm very very very happy about
32:22this
32:23is he holding up the tissue
32:27i need no give you this one i can read
32:30to get one but
32:31i'll hold that okay if i can um add on
32:34if that's okay thank you kwami um
32:36that's your kind words um it's really
32:40cool for me to
32:41be in this position because i started
32:42with the organization as an intern
32:44in my senior year of college and joined
32:46the staff right after i graduated
32:48and that was in like the summer spring
32:50summer of 2017 and ohio was just ramping
32:53up executions again after the moratorium
32:55from the dennis mcguire
32:56uh botched execution and so i
33:00kind of entered this job as like a trial
33:02by fire and
33:03i'm kind of exiting it in that same
33:05manner and it feels really good to know
33:07that we're gonna see this through and
33:08we're gonna get it done um
33:10absolutely yeah well i want to say
33:13congratulations to both of you alone
33:16and all the people that are part of your
33:18team and
33:20giving this support all these ones in
33:22the
33:23and things like that um you know it's
33:26it's things
33:28you know it's so it's so great to be
33:30part of what you call
33:32history you know because these movements
33:35and these bills
33:36are are considered history and
33:39you know i never thought that i would be
33:42a part of things that
33:44became history until i started doing
33:47this
33:47this type of work but you know
33:51is people for instance as you just said
33:55you
33:56came in as an intern and i'm sure when
33:58you came in there
34:00you know you just found this interesting
34:03and then it turned into a passion uh
34:06a passion to fight and passion to get
34:08involved
34:09and that's what people uh fail to
34:11understand
34:12when they come to these events and
34:14things like that and they ask
34:16what can i do what can i do to help and
34:18we tell them support you know
34:20your local organizations you know things
34:22like that and someone walk out of the
34:24room and don't do it
34:26but some of them get involved and when
34:28they get involved they come
34:30some of the top fighters some of the top
34:32leaders in
34:33this fight you know even forming other
34:36organizations or taking parts of the
34:38organization
34:39but i do encourage people to actually
34:42get involved i mean we even have
34:44entertainers get involved now
34:46you know we have the actors the singers
34:49rappers
34:51of all natures you know
34:54because this is a very very serious
34:56fight
34:58so we're coming down to the end of time
35:01winding up and i know we can go on
35:03forever for uh on this
35:04uh i know i can't i can do justice every
35:07day
35:08but craven won't sign for it so
35:12i have to do it just
35:15no but uh you know before we leave i
35:18would
35:19like to say do you have any comments
35:21that you would like to say
35:23to the people out there our fans
35:27um i would say well kwame i know that um
35:29wti and ohio we're working together to
35:32put up an action on your website
35:33um to contact legislators so that should
35:36be up sometime this week or next so we
35:38will definitely be making that
35:39available on our social media and on our
35:41membership list so
35:43um if you want to if you're in ohio and
35:45want to be involved
35:46uh head over to our website or or email
35:49me hannah at otzi.org it's my first name
35:51pretty simple
35:52um and that's the best way to stay
35:54informed and to be
35:56part of this moment in history so i
35:58think that's
35:59that's what i want to just say is
36:00encourage folks to get involved because
36:02um it's an exciting time to be involved
36:04in it for sure
36:07um question you got anything else to say
36:13so i i would just you know leave us with
36:15the uh
36:16age-old thought you know what goes up
36:19stays up when you're getting up
36:20so let's get up and stay up and make
36:23this happen
36:24yeah that's our motto uh so we have a
36:28little slide before i go
36:29so i'm just talking myself out of the
36:31slide
36:32uh this slide is just a slot of
36:35information
36:37um it should appear on the board in
36:40just a second
36:45bingo so
36:51kwame as the host of as the host of the
36:54show
36:55you have the responsibility of giving
36:58out the information
37:00that owes us out thank you for joining
37:04us ladies and gentlemen
37:06learn more about osley at oxy.org
37:09read more about kwame's story witness to
37:11the innocent.org
37:13the single post kwame yajama connect
37:16with herman lindsey
37:17h lindsay at witness to innocent.org
37:21support wti wti.org
37:24slash donate follow artsy social
37:29social media in the way there herman i
37:32gotta move you
37:33twitter at ohio stop executions
37:37facebook at ohio stop executions
37:41follow us on social media twitter at wti
37:45usa
37:46facebook at witness to innocence
37:48instagram at windows dennisons
37:50i even been on the ground myself to
37:52check that out
37:56it's cool that's cool so with that being
37:59said you know
38:00uh i thank everybody for uh i hate that
38:04we're not
38:04really live yet but because we're having
38:07some technical difficulties with
38:08pre-recording
38:10uh because i used to love watching the
38:13uh the little questions coming up
38:18yeah equipment you was all into it all
38:21the time so
38:22absolutely every day so
38:25you know seeing people uh respond
38:29but if you do have any questions or
38:32anything
38:33welcome email us at or uh with
38:35sinister.org
38:37um we have a great staff we will get the
38:40message
38:41uh pass it on and so i'm gonna be back
38:44in touch with you
38:45but until next episode um
38:49i want to thank everybody for joining me
38:51on
38:52a crew justice empowered by witness
38:54innocent
38:55with our special guest today the
38:57chairman of the best special host today
39:00um
39:03yes hannah and i want to thank uh
39:07executive director kirk grubworth
39:10chairman of boy
39:10kwame and all the other board members uh
39:14for making this happen
39:15i want to thank my staff they put
39:17together this
39:18this you know i never realized having a
39:22show would take so much you know it's so
39:25much goes on behind it
39:27you know i thought you could just get in
39:29front of a camera and just
39:32you know and things like that but um
39:35with chloe allison jenny
39:37trisha carroll my staff members they do
39:39a whole lot beyond it and
39:42get us the research and everything so i
39:44want to thank my staff for
39:46for uh making this show what it is too
39:50and i want to say bye to everyone
39:53absolutely thank you for having us
39:56hannah
39:57thank you so much for coming yeah thanks
39:59for having me it's great seeing you both
40:01hope you're done see you later

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