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Corey DeAngelis: The School Choice Moment — Transcript

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0:00the funding should follow the child
0:01after all education funding is supposed
0:03to be meant for educating children not
0:05for propping up and protecting a
0:06particular institution whether it's
0:08public or private
0:13[Music]
0:15welcome back to the kevin roberts show
0:16where all we do is try to save america
0:19and this week we are saving america by
0:21saving america's schools but really put
0:24a better way we're saving america's
0:26children from america's school system in
0:29particular the teachers unions that's a
0:31way of saying that i'm extraordinarily
0:33excited to have as my guest this week a
0:36long time friend of mine both in policy
0:39work professional work and that's dr
0:40corey deangelis corey thanks for joining
0:42me hey thank you so much for having me
0:44so one more mention to our audience here
0:46who are watching this is going to be a
0:48high energy episode because of you
0:50all right that's right that's right so
0:52we're excited because in all of the time
0:55that
0:56we've been working on public policy i
0:58know i'm in public policy because of
1:00education policy and i know that's the
1:02case for you that we've never seen the
1:04opportunity that is in front of us am i
1:06mistaken uh no you're absolutely correct
1:08we're seeing the biggest victories we've
1:10ever seen when it comes to educational
1:12freedom and school choice just last
1:14month arizona passed the most expansive
1:16education savings account program in the
1:18nation every single family regardless of
1:20income regardless of background will be
1:22able to take their kids taxpayer-funded
1:25state level education dollars to the
1:26education providers of their choosing
1:28happens to be about seven thousand
1:29dollars in arizona you can take it to
1:31the public school if you want you can go
1:33to a private school charter school or
1:35home-based education option arizona just
1:37cemented itself as the number one state
1:39for educational freedom the gold
1:41standard of school choice policy and i
1:43hope this encourages other states
1:45particularly red states to get into some
1:47friendly competition to empower all
1:49families to choose the best education
1:51providers for their kids and that's just
1:53one of the victories we have so much to
1:54talk about when it comes to the year of
1:56school choice last year victories at the
1:59supreme court uh the wind is at our
2:01backs that's right and and then that
2:03proverbial overton window which those of
2:05us who do policy for a living referred
2:08to as as that metaphor that allows us to
2:10know what's feasible
2:12never has more been feasible in the
2:14world of education reform and that's
2:16really what you and i are going to talk
2:17about in fact we're going to have a very
2:19hard time jamming all of that into 45
2:22minutes we're gonna do it and i'm so
2:23excited about that i even forgot to say
2:25who you work for american federation for
2:27children uh yeah um
2:29senior fellow at the american federation
2:30for children and again it's it's good to
2:32be on the podcast with you and this time
2:34in person as opposed to via zoom yeah
2:36that's right so being a southerner i
2:38always like to know people's story
2:40because it lets me know and my simple
2:42way of thinking where to put them and
2:44you and i as we've done some battle
2:46together that is shoulder to shoulder
2:48particularly in texas
2:50have talked about your story that is how
2:52you got into education reform but i
2:55think it's really important for our
2:56audience to hear that those who are
2:58watching or listening who are active on
3:00social media know that you are the tip
3:03of the spear for the education reform
3:04movement and i really do mean that and
3:06i'm grateful to you for that but we of
3:09course have some folks who aren't there
3:10and would i think really be inspired by
3:12how you got to do what you're doing so
3:14actually i like to think of myself as a
3:16southerner as well even though i don't
3:17have the accent even though and as well
3:19i live here in the swamp in dc have been
3:21here for quite a while now but i grew up
3:23in texas in san antonio where i went to
3:26government schools the entire time so if
3:28i make any mistakes on this podcast
3:29that's probably why
3:31but now to be real i i attended a magnet
3:33school which is still run by the
3:35district but it's a school of choice and
3:36it's a step in the right direction
3:38uh and i felt like that had a positive
3:40impact on my life trajectory it was
3:42actually located on the same physical
3:44campus as my residentially assigned
3:46government-run school
3:48and i saw a night and day difference in
3:49the opportunities that were available to
3:51me
3:52during my time in high school so i would
3:53like more families to have access to
3:55educational opportunities but it
3:56shouldn't be limited to schools that are
3:58run by the government your child's
4:00education dollar should follow you to
4:01any provider of the service whether it's
4:03run by the district a charter school a
4:06private entity or whether it's a home
4:08based education option like a micro
4:10school or for expenses like
4:12private tutoring the funding should
4:14follow the child after all education
4:15funding is supposed to be meant for
4:17educating children not for propping up
4:19and protecting a particular institution
4:20whether it's public or private well
4:22that's well said and and we're going to
4:25to get back to that wonderful claim you
4:26just made but i think it's really
4:28important especially for skeptics of
4:30your position to know that you're coming
4:33at this
4:34never having spent a day in a private
4:36school right you you
4:37did nor have i other than running a
4:40couple
4:41you went to university of texas san
4:42antonio studied business administration
4:44then economics did your phd in education
4:47policy the university of arkansas right
4:48yeah and that that's also part of my
4:50story as well is why i'm so interested
4:51in education reform during my bachelor's
4:53and master's in economics the light bulb
4:55went off in my head which is the problem
4:57with monopolies and the biggest monopoly
4:59we have is the government-run school
5:01system or at least one of the most
5:02problematic because it's dealing with
5:04the education of our children and when
5:06you have monopolies you don't have a
5:07strong incentive to do the right thing
5:08for your customers and to spend
5:10additional funding wisely and we see
5:12that play out decade after decade in the
5:14government-run school system in the
5:16united states for example according to
5:18national center for education statistics
5:20data between 1970 and about
5:222019 the latest data we have available
5:25we've increased per pupil education
5:27expenditures in the government school
5:29system nationwide by about 152 percent
5:32after adjusting for inflation the
5:34outcomes haven't gotten 152 percent
5:36better and uh teacher pay is actually
5:38only increased by a fraction of that
5:40amount only by about 11
5:42in real terms so when you hear teachers
5:44complaining that they that they're
5:46having to dig into their pockets to pay
5:48for supplies each year i actually do
5:49feel kind of bad for them but the
5:51problem isn't with their competition in
5:52terms of private and charter schools the
5:54problem is that their employer happens
5:56to be a massive geographic monopoly that
5:58has no incentive to spend money wisely
6:01or to treat their employees well either
6:04so there's a lot a lot of benefit that
6:06can be had through competition through
6:08school choice and it's not just the
6:11families who can benefit it's the
6:12teachers who can benefit too there have
6:14actually been five studies i've seen on
6:16the topic all five of them finding
6:18statistically significant positive
6:19effects of private and charter school
6:21competition on the teacher salaries in
6:23the public school system so this is a
6:26win-win solution
6:27and it really
6:30the only
6:31people that have a problem with it are
6:32the teachers union bosses who don't have
6:34the same incentives as the actual
6:36teachers on the ground and then just one
6:39more piece about my story i did the phd
6:41at the university of arkansas under a
6:43few great education researchers one of
6:45them being at the heritage foundation
6:47now jay green
6:48but also patrick wolf and dr bob moranto
6:51who are great dissertation advisors but
6:54my studies there the first one linked
6:56private school choice in milwaukee to
6:59crime reduction later on in life and
7:01that kind of thrust me into the national
7:03conversation on school choice and the
7:05bulk of my research since then has
7:07focused on non-academic benefits of
7:09school choice whether it it's in terms
7:11of crime reduction reductions in teenage
7:14pregnancies improvements in satisfaction
7:16and safety and just happiness of the
7:19children being there and from what this
7:20is also plays into the story of what
7:22we're seeing today
7:24families when their schools were closed
7:26woke up because they saw that their
7:28schools weren't just educating or they
7:30weren't even doing that all that well
7:31but they were indoctrinating kids and so
7:34this
7:35values-based uh alignment with between
7:39families and schools is a part of the
7:41conversation that we've seen over the
7:42past couple of years the teachers unions
7:44have overplayed their hand parents have
7:46woken up and they're pushing back they
7:48felt powerless in 2020 and 2021 and they
7:52don't want their kids to to be
7:53indoctrinated to hate them when they
7:55grow up so these families have mobilized
7:57they're pushing back at the school
7:58boards they're pushing back and going to
8:00vote at the ballot box
8:02and that's swaying politicians to do the
8:04right thing and listen to them to fund
8:06students as opposed to systems and we'll
8:09get into the the political consequences
8:12of this which we the way you and i think
8:14will lead to policy consequences but
8:17i sort of have to move chronologically
8:19in my own thinking and so when i hear
8:21someone like you or my colleague and our
8:23mutual friend dr jay green
8:25talk about all these statistics and the
8:27correlations that that y'all have been
8:29able to prove
8:30of course i know that those are credible
8:32claims
8:34you all have your your policy opponents
8:36but no one has been able to assail your
8:38work on the on the matter of research
8:40credibility so those are uncontested
8:42claims but this is the point corey i
8:44then think about well how can we
8:45translate that
8:47into policy wins and at least for me
8:50the easiest way is to think about you
8:52know what's what's that hypothetical
8:54picture
8:56where all of that's coming to bear and i
8:58think you touched on it which is
9:00a mom or a dad but i think especially a
9:03single mom
9:05during covid
9:06she has to continue to work if if her
9:08employer is saying work from home she
9:10still has to work her child or children
9:13are in the room next door are in the
9:14same room on a different computer which
9:16may she may in fact had to go by before
9:19the school district could even move
9:21and then she realizes not only is their
9:23indoctrination she's largely apolitical
9:25like most americans doesn't mean they're
9:26dumb it just means that they're actually
9:28smart they're not paying a lot of
9:29attention to what goes on in dc but they
9:32don't have time to fight the
9:34indoctrination but they do
9:37because the greatest love someone knows
9:38is for their child
9:40and then she realizes oh my gosh not
9:42only is their indoctrination they're not
9:44teaching my child math or reading or
9:47writing and
9:49then of course inspired she's this is
9:51where i'm really getting to the punch
9:53line she tries to penetrate the
9:55bureaucracy of her local school district
9:58and that's where the statistic you
9:59mentioned about
10:01inflation-adjusted spending from 1970 to
10:042019 increasing 152 percent but for
10:08example teacher pay just 11
10:10all of that almost all of that has gone
10:12to administrative bloat that's not a
10:14conservative screed that affects that
10:16mom in american families and and it
10:19seems as if
10:20conservatives or for that matter just
10:22education reformers regardless of their
10:24political ideology
10:26finally have understood how to make
10:28those connections
10:30is that what we're seeing on on the
10:32ground politically yeah it's a parent
10:34revolution and for far too long in k-12
10:36education the only special interests
10:38were the teachers unions superintendent
10:40unions the employee unions but now
10:42finally there's a new special interest
10:44group in town parents and they aren't
10:45going away anytime soon and they're
10:48going and they're going to fight for the
10:49right to educate their kids as they see
10:51fit harder than anyone will ever fight
10:52to take that right away from them so
10:54we've seen a lot of victories lately but
10:56i'm optimistic that that momentum is
10:58going to continue going forward because
11:00again parents aren't going to forget
11:02what they saw in 2020 and they're
11:05they're they're they've woken up and
11:07they're never going to sleep ever again
11:09even though the school is open those
11:10problems are still there and parents
11:13like you said
11:14care about their kids more than anybody
11:16else they are a stronger special
11:18interest than any employee union will
11:20ever be
11:22so we're going to get in again to the
11:24the
11:24political consequences but let's sort of
11:26set out the policy agenda based on those
11:29realities based on your research based
11:30on what we know from parents who are
11:33really behind this parent revolution
11:35what are the steps to the policy reform
11:38at the state level and also the federal
11:39level if any
11:41yeah you can pass a school choice bill
11:43at the state level that's typically how
11:44it's done and we've seen most victories
11:47in red states recently but 31 states
11:49already have some form of private school
11:51choice initiatives what most states are
11:53pushing recently is something called an
11:55education savings account program which
11:57is what arizona just passed the biggest
11:59most expensive esa program in the nation
12:02but the basic way that that that bears
12:04out is that if you want to keep your
12:06public school you can keep your public
12:08school if you like your public school
12:09you can keep your public school and the
12:11full funding would follow that your
12:13child to that institution but if not
12:15about half that funding typically it's
12:17the state level portion will follow your
12:18child to an education savings account
12:21some states like new hampshire got
12:24they they called theirs education
12:25freedom accounts because you know live
12:27free or die out there in new hampshire
12:29but you can take that to a private
12:31school to pay for tuition and fees you
12:32could use it for a charter school for
12:35uh home-based educational opportunities
12:37or any other approved education expenses
12:40it's the purest form of funding students
12:42not systems it's funding the student
12:44directly empowering parents to choose
12:47and the way that that works out is you
12:48know you typically have a bill that
12:50starts in the house or the senate in
12:52this at the state level and they pass it
12:54through uh each chamber goes to the
12:57governor to sign and then
12:59there you go then it has to be
13:00implemented on the ground but that's
13:02basically how this works out and parents
13:04have been rallying around these bills
13:07to push for real reform and politicians
13:09have been listening to them particularly
13:12because at this moment in time to come
13:14out against parental rights in education
13:16is emerging as a form of political
13:18suicide i mean we saw this happen with
13:21terry mcauliffe in virginia he said i
13:23don't think parents should be telling
13:24schools what they should teach and it's
13:25like dude are you serious after the
13:27school closures in your state of
13:29virginia one of the worst states for
13:31reopening schools parents weren't having
13:33it
13:34and he just quadrupled down on his
13:36anti-parent rhetoric and glenn younkin
13:38was smart he cracked the code at getting
13:41republicans to win on the issue of
13:42education instead of backing off of the
13:44issue glenn younkin leaned into it and
13:47started to understand that voters don't
13:50want to hear that right now and it's
13:52deeply unpopular this whole it takes a
13:54village uh mentality that your kids
13:56belong to the government or that parent
13:58shouldn't have a say that is an
14:00indefensible position especially in 22
14:032022 after the school closures after the
14:05indoctrination that has been happening
14:07in the schools
14:08and uh terry mcauliffe was in a catch-22
14:11situation if you would have come out for
14:12parental rights well then his boss randy
14:14weingarten of the aft would have been
14:15mad at him so instead he had randy
14:17weingarten stumping for him the night
14:18before the election that was the nail in
14:21the coffin moment for some voters who
14:23went on cnn a mom
14:25virginia mom
14:27used that quote that that was a nail in
14:28the coffin moment for her and we've
14:30since seen two polls just last month
14:33find that republicans for the first time
14:35ever that i've seen
14:36be up on the issue of education and both
14:39of the polls were commissioned by
14:40left-leaning groups one of them being
14:42the teachers union randy weingarten's
14:44own union talk about a epic self owned
14:47to commission a poll to show republicans
14:49up on education by one point and then
14:52the democrats for education reform found
14:55republicans up on the issue of education
14:57by three points and now you might say oh
14:59that's only one to three points but look
15:01at historically speaking gallup for
15:03example in 2017 found democrats up on
15:05the issue of education by 19 points so
15:08that's a a double digit you know
15:1120-point swing
15:12in the direction towards republicans
15:14this is a golden opportunity for
15:16republicans on the issue of education if
15:18they're smart they'll follow the
15:19blueprint laid out by by glenn younkin
15:21and support parental rights and
15:23education and it's hard to underscore
15:25how important that polling is
15:28to my knowledge i could be wrong i
15:30didn't check this before recording but i
15:32to my knowledge even in the two prior
15:35heady days of conservative education
15:38reform the late 80s under secretary
15:40bennett and about 20 years ago under
15:43george w bush now we have some problems
15:46uh all all respect intended to those
15:48those luminaries about the federal
15:50government taking such a large role but
15:51the point is if you looked at gallup and
15:53pew polls then
15:55conservatives were just trying to close
15:56the gap in terms of trust on that and
15:59all of that to say because we're not
16:00here to talk about polls is that that's
16:02a symptom of what you and i know has
16:04been going on in homes and in classrooms
16:07for decades now and it seems as if
16:10americans are now fed up with all of
16:13this very generous funding that
16:15americans give to public schools not
16:18quite being for naught but it certainly
16:20is not helping kids no i mean you look
16:23at the trends over time we throw more
16:24and more money at the problem without
16:26seeing that the real
16:28issue is is deeper than that you can't
16:30just throw more money in a problem
16:31without fixing the system itself and
16:33expect things to get any better the
16:35money's wasted year after year it goes
16:37towards administrative bloat and
16:38staffing surges
16:39which are great for uh teachers union
16:42bosses like randy weingarten who make
16:43over 560 000 a year according to the
16:46latest data that i've seen because more
16:48dues paying members more it means more
16:50revenues for the union so they can push
16:52their political nonsense i mean uh the
16:54aft's campaign contributions in 2022
16:57according to to open secrets website
17:00suggest that 99.997
17:04percent of the aft campaign
17:06contributions have gone to democrats as
17:08opposed to republicans in 2022 they're a
17:10political apparatus they're not about
17:12education they're about indoctrination
17:14and so much of the public has woken up
17:17to the nonsense that's happening in the
17:19public schools and also with the
17:20teachers unions which is not the same
17:22thing as the individual teachers right
17:25and so
17:26let's say someone's listening or
17:28watching this and
17:30they say okay corey i i agree with you
17:33and yet it seems as if your policy
17:35prescription
17:36would take money away from the public
17:38schools make the situation worse
17:41how would you respond to that devil's
17:42advocate question the money doesn't
17:43belong to the government schools
17:45education funding is meant for educating
17:47children not for propping up and
17:48protecting a particular institution
17:50whether it's public or private and by
17:52the way why would giving families a
17:54choice defund your public schools if
17:56they're doing a good job they won't lose
17:57any kids at all so you're essentially
17:59telling on yourself when you suggest
18:01that
18:02giving families a choice will lead to a
18:03mass exodus from your schools i think
18:05there are a lot of great public schools
18:06i have confidence in the public school
18:08system to compete the people making this
18:10argument don't have any confidence
18:12whatsoever in the public schools so
18:14they're the ones that are anti-public
18:15school not our side but at the end of
18:17the day the money doesn't belong to the
18:20schools and you should be able to choose
18:22your public schools if you like and oh
18:24by the way like i mentioned earlier in
18:25arizona the public schools spend about
18:2713 14 000 per kid the amount that
18:30follows the child is only about half
18:32again because it's only the state level
18:34portion it's about 7 000 so what happens
18:36in the public schools is they get to
18:37keep thousands of dollars the local and
18:39federal funding for students are no
18:41longer educating so on a per pupil basis
18:44instead of having 13 or 14 000 they
18:46might even have 15 or 16 000 per student
18:49based on how many students are leaving
18:51in what other industry does this happen
18:53i mean just imagine if you stop shopping
18:55at i don't know harris teeter or safeway
18:57and you wanted to go to trader joe's and
18:59safeway got to keep half your grocery
19:01funding in perpetuity that'd be a good
19:02deal for safeway uh
19:05and similarly this is a good deal for
19:07the public schools that you get to keep
19:08any money at all for students are no
19:10longer educating and last point i'll
19:12make on that this is that school choice
19:13is a rising tide that lifts all boats 25
19:16of 28 studies on the topic find
19:17statistically significant positive
19:19effects of private school choice
19:20competition on the outcomes in the
19:23public schools so we have so much
19:24evidence on that there's also a
19:25peer-reviewed meta-analysis from ut
19:27austin researchers for example
19:30getting all the effect sizes together
19:32still finding in this journal article in
19:352019 in a journal called educational
19:37policy
19:38statistically significant overall
19:39positive effects of private school
19:41choice competition on the outcomes of
19:42the students in the public schools this
19:45is again a win-win situation unless
19:47you're randy weingarten and and to
19:49underscore that and i think you were
19:51you're a part of the episode i'm about
19:52to recount in 2017 in the texas
19:56legislative session
19:57many of us across the education reform
20:00movement
20:01you
20:02we at the texas public policy foundation
20:04heritage was involved our mutual friends
20:06lindsey burke and jay green and others
20:08on this special needs education savings
20:10account bill and i and i mentioned this
20:12to people in the audience who may not be
20:14specialists in this because it's telling
20:16about how protective and territorial the
20:19teachers union is the way that bill was
20:21constructed to cut to the chase was that
20:23there would be the state allotment the
20:25state funding of students that would
20:27follow those students if in fact they
20:29had a special need seem like a slam dunk
20:31from the standpoint of charity right if
20:33nothing else but
20:35it kept the the existing school district
20:37where those students were not just whole
20:40but a 10 plus up to sort of sort of like
20:43a political giveaway right those of us
20:45on the reform side said whatever it
20:46takes to help these million kids
20:49but they rejected it and they stopped
20:51that bill from getting passed this is
20:52endemic of what happens in state
20:54legislatures all the time well it's
20:55because they want power and power isn't
20:57just in money but it's also in being
21:00able to control other people's children
21:01and that's a problem and this is what's
21:03coming out uh with the virginia
21:04governor's race with other uh
21:07democratic politicians essentially
21:09stepping in over and over again across
21:11the country is it's it's a battle of who
21:13do the kids belong to does the the is
21:16the community responsible of determining
21:18what what the education of the child
21:20looks like or are parents the primary
21:22decision makers when it comes to their
21:23kids education republicans are are of
21:25the the latter issue in in general
21:28nationwide and i think that's why we're
21:29seeing republicans up on the issue of
21:31education because your kids don't belong
21:33to the government parents are the best
21:35decision makers they know and care more
21:37about their kids
21:38educational outcomes than anybody else
21:40and they certainly know more about their
21:42kids than bureaucrats sitting in offices
21:44hundreds of miles away
21:46so
21:47polling on the research has been good
21:49the research is there the the model
21:51legislation is there
21:53and what has not been there at least to
21:55the extent that it is and this this is
21:57evident if you just look at primary
21:59elections and states this summer is that
22:02voters of course are aware too so give
22:04us some examples these are i want to be
22:06clear
22:07neither endorsements from you nor
22:08endorsements for me these are things
22:10that have happened in the past and we're
22:12just looking at the data and understand
22:14that there is an emerging consensus
22:16among state legislators in a number of
22:18states that education reform is a top
22:20issue yeah there's a lot of examples i
22:22already went over the general election
22:23results from virginia terry mcauliffe
22:26being the anti-parent candidate we had
22:28examples from the national school boards
22:30association at a national level they
22:32said they colluded with the biden
22:33administration and sent a letter to the
22:35department of justice implying that some
22:37parents should be investigated for
22:38domestic terrorism that caused a fierce
22:41backlash from parents and that caused 26
22:45states in the last half a year or so to
22:48pull out of the national school boards
22:49association we might as well rename that
22:51organization to i don't know the
22:53regional school boards association the
22:56on the west coast school of california
22:58polled as well so
23:00um
23:00they essentially imploded and it's their
23:02own fault and it's glorious this should
23:04be a message to politicians and
23:06organizations that you can't abuse
23:08parental rights and education anymore
23:10parents aren't going to stand for that
23:11for it and they're going to push back
23:13and they're never going to sit down and
23:15shut up no matter how many times members
23:17of the establishment try to label them
23:18as domestic terrorists but when it comes
23:20to political elections in the primaries
23:23as well uh candidates supported by the
23:25american federation for children action
23:27fund for example the latest numbers that
23:29i've seen is that 79 percent of the
23:31candidates supported by the american
23:32federation for children action fund and
23:34state affiliates have won their primary
23:36elections and not just easy races also
23:38incumbents losing their seats one great
23:40example is from iowa for example the the
23:43governor of iowa kim reynolds is a
23:45staunch supporter of educational freedom
23:46i'd say one of the best if not the best
23:49education governors when it comes to
23:51securing and pushing for and actually
23:54fighting to get
23:55school choice policies passed
23:57their senate just this this past year
24:00passed a education savings account
24:03program which is a great form of school
24:04choice it's i would say the purest form
24:06of funding students not systems and they
24:09had all republicans vote in favor of the
24:12legislation except for one uh all yeah
24:14all republicans but one joined the
24:16democrats and it easily passed the iowa
24:18senate iowa house is 60 percent
24:20republican 60 of the 100 house seats are
24:22republican they couldn't get it done
24:24this year for whatever reason
24:26and governor reynolds kept the
24:29legislature past the 100-day mark which
24:31is something that isn't done very often
24:33in the state of iowa
24:35and
24:36fought really hard to get her
24:38preferred education savings account bill
24:42passed the house couldn't do it so she
24:43went out and said you know what i'm
24:45going to endorse some people in the
24:46primaries she endorsed nine candidates
24:49and on most of those races school choice
24:51was the clear defining law dividing line
24:54and eight and and eight of those nine uh
24:57uh races that were endorsed by
25:01governor kim reynolds won those races so
25:03it looks like iowa all eyes on iowa next
25:05session it appears that they're going to
25:07be able to pass an education savings
25:09account bill next year and the question
25:11isn't whether they're going to do it
25:12it's how big and how far they're going
25:14to go hopefully they
25:16follow in the footsteps of governor doug
25:18ducey and the arizona legislature which
25:20passed again the gold standard of
25:22education freedom every single family is
25:24eligible we already fund education for
25:26every single kid every single child
25:28regardless of income regardless of
25:30background is guaranteed a
25:31taxpayer-funded education well that same
25:34funding should follow the child to
25:35wherever they want to go regardless of
25:37their background
25:38and
25:39look in arizona they were able to get it
25:41done with one's seat majorities
25:44for republicans in the house and the
25:46senate so if you can do it in a state
25:48like arizona which is more purplish that
25:51just has a one seat majority in the
25:52house and senate and if you're a
25:54republican state in particular a red
25:55state like texas or oklahoma you should
25:58be able to get the same thing done
26:00this coming session and empower all
26:02families to choose the best education
26:04for their kids and at the end of the day
26:06there's other things that could be done
26:07to tweak the system but the only way to
26:10truly secure parental rights in
26:12education is to fund students directly
26:15empower families to choose
26:17and then they can get into a school that
26:19best aligns with their values and meets
26:20their child's needs in other ways
26:23because at the end of the day uh if you
26:25need an exit option and the other
26:27accountability mechanisms don't work
26:29families need that exit option and
26:30bottom-up accountability is the
26:32strongest form of accountability that
26:34exists in education just as with any
26:36other good or service
26:38so in addition to all of this good news
26:41there was another really vital part of
26:43this recipe of of this emerging success
26:46and it came from the us supreme court
26:48with the main decision explain why
26:50that's so important both in substance
26:51but also politically at the state
26:53legislative level yeah so this is the
26:54carson v makin decision that just came
26:56out in june of 2022 uh it was a ruling
27:00in favor of parental rights and
27:01education i'd say it's a victory for
27:02religious liberties and just school
27:04choice in general and the opinion of the
27:07court they made it clear that school
27:09choice is not an issue with the
27:10so-called separation of church and state
27:13which is not found in the u.s
27:14constitution it's more about the
27:16government establishment establishing a
27:18religion so they were more talking about
27:20the establishment clause which has been
27:22clear with with uh supreme court
27:24president for about two decades now
27:26since the zellman v simmons-harris case
27:29in 2002 that had to do with an ohio
27:31voucher program but the long story short
27:33is school choice has nothing no problem
27:35with the establishment clause for the
27:36same reason that pell grants do not
27:38violate the establishment clause and the
27:40same thing with the gi bill same thing
27:41with pre-k programs with all these
27:43initiatives taxpayer funding goes to the
27:45family or the student and then they can
27:47choose a public or private religious or
27:49non-religious provider you can take your
27:51pell grant funding for example which is
27:53public taxpayer money to notre dame you
27:55can take it to a religious university
27:57and no one has any issue with that no
27:58one says a word about it and the reason
28:00that it doesn't violate the
28:02establishment clause is because again
28:03the funding goes to the family and the
28:05or the student and they they have a
28:07choice to take it to religious or
28:08non-religious institutions the same
28:10thing is the case with school choice so
28:13this should embolden families to fight
28:15back
28:16even harder and it should embolden
28:18politicians to feel encouraged to push
28:21for school choice and not have to worry
28:23about arguments from the other side we
28:24have tons of supreme court precedent now
28:26that school choice is permissible under
28:28the u.s constitution and carson b macon
28:30actually took it a step further because
28:33it had to do with whether a state could
28:34discriminate against religious families
28:36in schools participating in school
28:38choice programs which should have
28:40already been clear in the 2020 case
28:42which was
28:43v montana
28:44they which they ruled that the quote is
28:46something along the lines uh from chief
28:48justice john roberts that a state need
28:51not subsidize
28:52private education but once it decides to
28:54do so it cannot exclude schools solely
28:57because they are religious something
28:58along those lines and maine was doing
29:00that they had a program that was a
29:02school choice program and when it was
29:04first started in the late 1700s it's
29:06called a town tuition program if you
29:08didn't have a government school in your
29:10area you could take a voucher
29:11essentially to a another government-run
29:13school in a different area or you could
29:15take it to a private school religious or
29:16non-religious but in 1981 they changed
29:20the law to exclude religious schools and
29:22then you could only take the funding to
29:23a public
29:25pla school in another place or you could
29:27take it to a private non-religious
29:29school they were discriminating its
29:31religious schools and families it flew
29:33in the face of the espinoza v montana
29:35decision so
29:37school choice advocates were seeing
29:38carson be making as a slam dunk all
29:41along but it also just goes to show
29:43that politicians should have nothing to
29:45worry about when it comes to empowering
29:47parents since they should push as hard
29:48as possible this coming session and hey
29:51our friends out in texas i've heard at a
29:53campaign event from governor gabit that
29:56we're going to see the
29:58the swiftest strongest push for school
30:01choice in texas history so let's get it
30:03done things are a lot different than
30:05what they were back in 2017 texas
30:07republican primary voters for example 88
30:10of them on the primary ballot in march
30:112022
30:13uh said that they support the school
30:15choice proposition which is a huge surge
30:17in support since i last saw it on the
30:19texas primary ballot for republicans
30:21which was 2018 it jumped nine percentage
30:24points in support up to 88 percent
30:27of texas republican primary voters who
30:29have woken up and who truly support
30:32educational freedom it's time for
30:33legislators in states like texas to to
30:36get the job done like they did in
30:37arizona and if you're
30:40someone in a state whether it's texas or
30:42another state where your legislature
30:44will be considering
30:46education freedom options
30:48you've given us a great menu of of how
30:50to message on these issues particularly
30:52those myths that that legislators and
30:55some defenders hold up about funding
30:57about public funding of religious quote
31:00unquote religious schools for example so
31:02it seems as if just strategically there
31:06there really isn't any ground left to
31:08stand on if
31:10for anyone but especially a right of
31:11center legislator and you've been
31:13opposed to school choice yeah exactly
31:16and this has emerged as a political
31:18litmus test issue for gop primary voters
31:21and we've seen victories when it comes
31:22to school choice in the republican
31:24primaries in texas for example and in so
31:27many other states school choices on the
31:29republican party platform in texas
31:31nationally in other states as well
31:33primary voters when it comes to
31:35republicans are highly supportive of
31:37school choice policies and in texas
31:40the gop just voted on their legislative
31:43priorities and school choice made the
31:44top eight legislative priorities for
31:46this session so i'm i've got all eyes on
31:48iowa i've got eyes on texas as well i've
31:50seen some great leadership from governor
31:52abbott the most forceful endorsement of
31:54school choice that i've seen him make in
31:56may of 2020 where he said that the state
31:58funding should follow all children to
32:00whether it's a public school private
32:02school or charter school which includes
32:04obviously a private school choice
32:06initiative which could be a voucher
32:07program or an education savings account
32:09initiative so i'm looking forward to
32:11that but look this shouldn't be a
32:12partisan issue when you look at the
32:14arguments for school choice
32:16this is an equalizer this is con this
32:18leads to more competition it's a win for
32:21students teachers at the same time it's
32:23a win for parental rights and education
32:25which is super popular right now this is
32:28probably why republicans are up on the
32:30issue of education hopefully democrats
32:33come along get on board and make this a
32:34non-partisan issue because their
32:36constituents support it you look at the
32:37latest real clear opinion research
32:39polling nationwide for example finding
32:41that 72 percent of americans in 2022
32:45support school choice and there was
32:46super majority support in that same poll
32:49among democrats republicans and
32:51independents this should not be a
32:53partisan issue
32:54and
32:56at the end of the day whether we like to
32:57admit it or not the most advantage in
33:00society already have school choice
33:02they're already at least more likely to
33:04have the resources to live in
33:05neighborhoods that happen to be to be
33:07assigned to the best quote unquote
33:09public schools and they're more likely
33:11at least to be able to afford to pay a
33:13pocket for private school tuition and
33:14fees so funding students directly allows
33:18more families to access educational
33:19opportunities so in that sense again
33:22school choice is an equalizer and we
33:24should put politics aside and stop
33:26listening to the teachers unions and
33:28start to listen to parents and do the
33:29right thing it's really that simple and
33:31and if we look at the consequences of
33:35everything you've mentioned politically
33:37in a place like texas
33:38one of the key issues that's driving a
33:40realignment
33:42of hispanic voters into the center right
33:44coalition
33:46and and you've been tracking this for
33:47years i have as well this is not a
33:49surprise to us
33:50is the reality that the public school
33:53system does not provide equality of
33:55opportunity among all of the noble
33:57things that the ideals of this republic
34:00promise
34:01at the top of the list is equality of
34:03opportunity which is especially noble
34:05given how pluralistic how diverse our
34:08society is i mean this is something that
34:10every american this ideal every american
34:12should be proud of by the way they
34:14aren't because our schools of course
34:15don't like to teach it we're going to
34:16come to that in a minute but the the
34:19political left in this country
34:21continues to be beholden to the teachers
34:23union at their political peril and it
34:25will be very interesting to see after
34:28this election cycle where all of this is
34:30really really clear the realignment that
34:32happens on their side
34:34i think it's going to become a
34:35non-partisan issue i don't know how long
34:37it's going to take but the path towards
34:39it is
34:40it could actually be
34:42bipartisanship through hyper
34:45partisanship so once republicans take
34:47the blueprint of glen younkin and lean
34:50into this it's going to be so
34:51politically damaging for democrats look
34:54i mean this already happened before
34:55covet in in 2018 with desantis in his
34:58gubernatorial victory he won
35:01as a according to a wall street journal
35:03opinion piece because of school choice
35:05moms
35:06florida already had a thriving tax
35:08credit scholarship program where a lot
35:10of low-income families were already
35:11using it
35:13and uh
35:14he didn't win by a huge margin and if
35:17you looked at the demographics of the
35:19people who voted for him um it
35:22uh the the wall street journal opinion
35:24piece writer claimed that school choice
35:26moms tipped the governor's race in
35:28florida and a piece of that that's
35:30important that i missed is that his
35:32opponent uh was in favor of getting rid
35:34of the tax credit scholarship program so
35:36you can essentially
35:38look you're you're trying to take away a
35:40benefit from a low-income family that
35:43makes education and school choice a
35:45higher
35:45uh
35:46voting issue and so
35:49in the medium or long term this could
35:51turn into a bipartisan or nonpartisan
35:53issue and i think that's the way it
35:55should be done i don't think it should
35:57come to that i think that this should
35:59just happen this this coming year people
36:01should wake up but the reality is that
36:03politics are a lot more messy than that
36:05and it has a lot of times politics have
36:07nothing to do with logic and a lot more
36:09to do with power dynamics and the way to
36:11make this bipartisan going forward could
36:13be republicans making it so politically
36:16disastrous for democrats to come out
36:18against parental rights and education
36:19where they'll have no choice but to
36:21finally support parents yeah i mean that
36:24just to be really blunt about it the
36:26political left has put their own
36:28political power
36:30well ahead the well-being of students
36:32and and the way that looks in a campaign
36:35is that they they want to prevent
36:37education reformers from having a
36:39constituency they do that by blocking
36:41even these rather modest education
36:44freedom initiatives right and so what
36:46makes me think about that is the florida
36:47example had florida not had that tax
36:50credit scholarship program had not there
36:52been been constituents of that that is
36:55low-income families most of them of
36:56color whose
36:58students their children were benefiting
37:00from this ron desantis probably wouldn't
37:02be the governor of florida and i think
37:04that there's a very strong parallel to
37:07texas generally and we're not going to
37:09swerve into the gubernatorial race there
37:11but it'll be very interesting to see
37:13the candidate who's left of center for
37:15governor in texas be on the defensive on
37:17this issue because it really is at a
37:19step with where the vast majority of
37:22texans which gets into another uh reason
37:24that this could be politically
37:25profitable for republicans in particular
37:27one it's just a good idea
37:29and two um the wins the political winds
37:31have shifted parents support school
37:33choice it's politically damaging to come
37:35out against parental rights and
37:37education you had the lieutenant
37:38governor candidate in texas on the
37:40democratic side call parents vouchers
37:43vultures essentially he said vouchers
37:45are for vultures
37:46imagine calling low-income kids trapped
37:48in failing government schools vultures
37:50he pretty much told terry mcauliffe hey
37:52hold up hold my beer and i'm going to
37:54one-up you on this by coming out against
37:56parents and and students stuck in
37:57failing schools but the other kind of
37:59piece of this that i didn't really talk
38:01about much today is that
38:03there are a lot of political hypocrites
38:06when it comes to school choice who sent
38:08their own kids to private school or even
38:10attended private schools themselves
38:12which
38:13is is an issue at play in the texas
38:15governor's race uh where you have the
38:17democratic candidate who benefited from
38:20having a private school education and
38:21that's great i'm glad he had that
38:23opportunity but at the same time why
38:25fight against uh less advantaged
38:27families from having that kind of
38:28opportunity at the same time yeah it's
38:30it's yet another example in a long line
38:32of examples
38:34of the political left especially
38:37showing how elitist they are and not
38:39wanting people who don't come from the
38:41means they do and nothing wrong with
38:42that this is america it's great that
38:44there are people of wealth but they
38:46don't want the equality of opportunity
38:48it really is not a republican or
38:50democrat thing it's us versus them one
38:52is non-stop logical inconsistencies too
38:55yet the same people who support funding
38:56students directly for higher education
38:58and pre-k and funding people directly
39:00when it comes to groceries and health
39:03care but then they oppose it only when
39:04it comes to those in between years of
39:06k-12 education and you like the only way
39:09to bridge that apparent logical
39:10inconsistency is to understand that
39:11there's a difference in power dynamics
39:13that choice is the norm for the most
39:15part with higher education pre-k and
39:16everything else but choice threatens an
39:18entrenched special interest which
39:19overwhelmingly donates to one party over
39:21the other only when it comes to those in
39:23between years of k-12 education so the
39:26status quo of course the monopoly fights
39:28as hard as possible against any change
39:30to the status quo uh even if that means
39:32trapping low-income kids and failing
39:33schools and the other kind of hypocrisy
39:36or logical inconsistency
39:38is that the same people
39:40who say that you know taxpayers should
39:42cover
39:43free college for everyone or free pre-k
39:45for everyone starting at third grade or
39:47at the the year uh three years of age or
39:50the same people who support student loan
39:52forgiveness for everyone having the
39:54taxpayer foot the bill they're the same
39:56ones who will say you already have
39:58school choice you can just
40:00you ha you can choose a private school
40:02today you can just pay for it out of
40:03pocket like i did
40:05it's easy and cheap right yeah mary
40:07antoinette would have would be proud let
40:09them eat cake the poor people can just
40:12they should just be able to pay for
40:13private school already that they can do
40:15that right it's like that's not a
40:17feasible option for everybody today and
40:19oh by the way
40:20this is funds that are already being
40:22allocated so it's a limited government
40:25proposal but it's also an equalizer at
40:27the same time and that it empowers more
40:29families to choose it's just that uh the
40:32teachers unions aren't really happy
40:33about it because they want to keep their
40:35gravy train going they think that
40:37they're that your kids and the education
40:39dollars meant for educating them belong
40:41to their government institutions and
40:43that's a completely backwards way of
40:44thinking about things it is i think
40:46they're wars of the state we'll probably
40:47have to save that for another episode
40:49because we have waning time and i want
40:50to be sure and ask you this question
40:53because it's one that in the years we've
40:55been doing some work together we haven't
40:57really talked about so i'm very curious
40:59about your answer and it's this it's a
41:00little bit of a crystal ball question
41:02and so
41:04we're going to have a lot of policy
41:05success on education freedom over the
41:07next year
41:08and that's going to breed an opportunity
41:11it's going to create an opportunity for
41:13americans to i think live through a
41:15golden age of american education because
41:18this being on the cusp of breaking this
41:21monopoly of the radical left and the
41:24teachers unions and all these associate
41:26superintendents
41:28is an example that in spite of all of
41:30america's challenges it's still america
41:33and you can be the little guy and you
41:34can still win this is the point corey
41:36when that happens then we're gonna have
41:38an opportunity as a people to rebuild
41:41institutions in the image of our
41:44philosophical disposition i don't mean
41:45conservative i mean pro-american i mean
41:48common sense what do those institutions
41:50look like whether they be schools
41:52for elementary kids or universities
41:55am i in other words on the right track
41:56and being so optimistic
41:59yeah i think you're on the right track
42:00this is one area that we can win it's
42:01the silver lining of covetous people
42:03have put it so many times before it's
42:05woken up individuals and if we went on
42:07the issue of education a lot of the
42:09other problems sort themselves out
42:12um when you have less socialist
42:14indoctrination happening in the
42:15classroom
42:16those same students will be less likely
42:18to vote for big government when they
42:19grow up and so even if you're not super
42:22thrilled about education reform and
42:23that's not your pet policy well this
42:26will have ripple effects on your
42:27policies if you're a free market uh
42:30solutions based individual so everybody
42:32should care about educational freedom
42:34even if your kids aren't currently in a
42:35failing government school or even if you
42:37don't have kids at all this has effects
42:39on the rest of society altogether and i
42:42am super optimistic going forward again
42:43parents have woken up they're the new
42:45special interest group in town and we
42:47are going to free families from the
42:48depraved clutches of the power hungry
42:51teachers unions once and for all and
42:53there's nothing that they can do about
42:55it because parents care about their kids
42:57more than anybody else and they're going
42:59to fight as hard as possible
43:02right now and going forward they've
43:04woken up they're never going back to
43:06sleep
43:07and
43:08that makes me feel good everybody should
43:10be uh happy about where we're at with
43:12the progress we've made on educational
43:14freedom so if someone's watching or
43:17listening to this and they say man the
43:19general of the education freedom
43:21movement corey deangelis is someone i
43:24want to follow how do they get involved
43:26what do you need them to do so that we
43:27can get this ball across the finish line
43:28you always follow me on twitter it's at
43:30deangelis corey i'm probably on there
43:32too much um so at d'angelis quarry on
43:34twitter but also if you want to help us
43:35in the fight for education freedom you
43:37can go to education
43:39educationfreedompledge.com where you can
43:40follow different bills that are
43:42happening in your state so you can rally
43:44around bills that promote parental
43:46rights in education or school choice in
43:48general again that's
43:50educationfreedompledge.com before we
43:52thank you for having me yeah thank you
43:53so much kevin
43:55well my friends as i told you this would
43:57be a great episode we're taking back
43:59america we're doing that with smiles on
44:00our faces because we know that america's
44:03millions of school children deserve this
44:05from us
44:06thanks for tuning in thanks for for
44:07being such a great subscriber to this
44:10show and by the way if you aren't a
44:11subscriber you just happen to listen to
44:13this for the first time please click
44:15subscribe take care we'll see you next
44:17time
44:23[Music]
44:31you

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This page contains the full transcript of Corey DeAngelis: The School Choice Moment by The Kevin Roberts Show, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 8,533 words across 1,335 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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