Coonrod Catches Watts in a Lie — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:06there was no note or anything by the
2. 0:08wedding ring
3. 0:10would you say her last name was there
4. 0:12was no note or anything by the wedding
5. 0:14ring
6. 0:15hello and welcome to true crime rocket
7. 0:18science the most authentic voice
8. 0:19in true crime in this episode we are
9. 0:22going to look at
10. 0:23uh kunrod catching watson a lie
11. 0:26and you know if you thinking that
12. 0:30that's really no big deal you know
13. 0:31watchers telling a lot of lies he was
14. 0:34lying all the time catching him out in a
15. 0:38lie really isn't
16. 0:40kind of rocket science then i'd be
17. 0:42inclined to agree with you
18. 0:43what what we're actually going to be
19. 0:45looking at conrad doesn't actually
20. 0:47realize he's caught watching him live
21. 0:49but he has
22. 0:50and from the clip that i've played i've
23. 0:54sort of provided a clue so i wonder
24. 0:56whether you know what what that refers
25. 0:58to
26. 0:59so before we get to that i'm going to be
27. 1:02starting
28. 1:03a a timeline countdown
29. 1:07of the jonbenet ramsey case and i will
30. 1:10let you know at the end of this episode
31. 1:13uh when that will start so before we get
32. 1:16to that
33. 1:16uh and before we get to this episode if
34. 1:19you haven't subscribed
35. 1:20to this channel please do like share
36. 1:22leave a comment
37. 1:23and let's get started
38. 1:26so in this episode we're going to look
39. 1:28at really two
40. 1:31almost counter sort of
41. 1:34almost polar opposites and
42. 1:38in a kind of a sense so on the on the
43. 1:42one hand
44. 1:43we what i want to sort of just direct
45. 1:45your attention to
46. 1:46again it's not really rocket science to
47. 1:49sort of um
48. 1:50catch chris watts telling a lie he told
49. 1:52lots and lots and lots of lies
50. 1:54right but what i want to do instead is
51. 1:58to show you
52. 1:59how criminals slip away
53. 2:03when people aren't paying attention and
54. 2:06so
55. 2:07when you think about that clip that that
56. 2:10we heard right in the beginning of this
57. 2:11episode
58. 2:13as he sort of walks away he sort of
59. 2:15walks into the bedroom
60. 2:16coonrod says something like and there
61. 2:19wasn't a no to anything
62. 2:21and what's answer something like no he
63. 2:23sort of matters no
64. 2:26and what is kind of
65. 2:29ironic in that situation is that nicole
66. 2:32atkinson is standing sort of right
67. 2:34beside him
68. 2:34when that happens she's kind of in the
69. 2:38loft area
70. 2:39and kunai sort of walks away now i'll
71. 2:41tell you why this is significant
72. 2:43it's significant because shanann did
73. 2:45actually write a note
74. 2:47right the question or the issue that
75. 2:50kunrod is sort of
76. 2:52testing her is kind of around the
77. 2:55leaving of the wedding ring
78. 2:58right um chris watts is sort of saying
79. 3:00that shenan
80. 3:01left the wedding ring behind and that
81. 3:03was her way of saying i'm done with this
82. 3:05marriage right
83. 3:06which wasn't true but that was what he
84. 3:08was trying to
85. 3:10he was trying to put words into
86. 3:12shanann's mouth right
87. 3:13he was trying to steal her story he was
88. 3:16trying to
89. 3:18you know make cover up the reality of
90. 3:22what is going on
91. 3:24but it was within that kind of context
92. 3:26within the context of
93. 3:28leaving a message with the ring
94. 3:31that conrad sort of wondered well didn't
95. 3:34she maybe leave a note as well didn't
96. 3:35she sort of
97. 3:36express her intentions and
98. 3:40i think most of us would say the same
99. 3:42thing no well she didn't shanann didn't
100. 3:44leave a note
101. 3:47but she did shenand did leave chris
102. 3:50watts a note
103. 3:51on the
104. 3:55between the 9th and the 10th of august
105. 3:57so she left it
106. 3:58she left it on the kitchen counter i
107. 4:00think on the morning of the 10th of
108. 4:02august
109. 4:03the morning that she left for arizona
110. 4:06right and i'm not going to go through
111. 4:09the contents of the note but
112. 4:10that note basically ends off with a very
113. 4:14awkward message which is
114. 4:17i will sort of love you always you know
115. 4:20i'm never going to give up on us
116. 4:22and that doesn't match chris what's the
117. 4:24story
118. 4:25and that is why it's a lie so it's a lie
119. 4:27that shannon didn't leave a note
120. 4:30and you know what could if watch was
121. 4:33innocent what could have said yeah she
122. 4:35did leave a note
123. 4:36and and show him the note show him the
124. 4:38two pages
125. 4:40i mean where was that note what happened
126. 4:41to the note that's
127. 4:43one of the little mysteries of this case
128. 4:45what happened to the note that shenan
129. 4:47gave to him
130. 4:49and so the question is was it
131. 4:51photographed is the note that is in the
132. 4:54netflix documentary
133. 4:55also the photograph note if so
134. 4:59where is the actual note what happened
135. 5:01to it did what sort of burn it
136. 5:03in the barbecue that he made did he
137. 5:06tear it up and just throw it kind of in
138. 5:08the garbage
139. 5:09did he sort of ball it into a
140. 5:13you know a ball of paper and who knows
141. 5:16you know just throw it out
142. 5:18what happened to it it would be
143. 5:19interesting to know but
144. 5:21what i'm trying to say to you is you
145. 5:23know the other side is also
146. 5:25if nicole atkinson had said something at
147. 5:28that point
148. 5:30that would have made things quite
149. 5:32interesting as well just on that simple
150. 5:33question
151. 5:34she didn't leave a note to anything
152. 5:37i don't know whether nicole atkinson
153. 5:39knew about the note
154. 5:42what i do know is in the
155. 5:46i call it the um atkinson transcript but
156. 5:49it's basically the
157. 5:50i think it's 72 pages where agent
158. 5:54zentner
159. 5:56talks to nicole atkinson
160. 6:00at her work i think it was at night on
161. 6:04the tuesday i think it was sort of
162. 6:07around about
163. 6:09around about this the time that watts is
164. 6:11being interrogated by
165. 6:13coda before use miranda's also on
166. 6:16tuesday night
167. 6:17in any event uh greg zentner
168. 6:20interviewed her and during this
169. 6:23interview
170. 6:24she did mention something about a letter
171. 6:26and so there's a quote from that
172. 6:27interview
173. 6:28it's from page 1662
174. 6:32so near the end of the discussion
175. 6:35and nicole atkinson said and she told us
176. 6:38she was going to write him a letter over
177. 6:40the weekend
178. 6:41whether she did or not there's a book
179. 6:43that was in her purse it's a green book
180. 6:45and it says like some quote on the front
181. 6:47of it
182. 6:48so i don't know if there was a letter in
183. 6:50there that she started to write to him
184. 6:52or if she was writing stuff down and
185. 6:55like things she could change or she done
186. 6:57wrong or what not
187. 6:58but she had that book with her the whole
188. 7:00weekend it was a notebook
189. 7:02like a binded notebook it's like mint
190. 7:04mint green and for the life of me i
191. 7:06can't remember what it says on it
192. 7:08on the front of it and then she goes on
193. 7:10to say she had
194. 7:11the whole weekend and she was writing in
195. 7:13it off and on
196. 7:14so i don't know if that but but that was
197. 7:17at the house with him
198. 7:19so it is possible that the draft
199. 7:24of the letter because we know that from
200. 7:27the netflix documentary that
201. 7:29shenan wrote kind of a rough draft and
202. 7:31then she actually
203. 7:32rewrote it and just did it sort of
204. 7:35better
205. 7:36i don't know where she wrote the rough
206. 7:38draft i do know that the paper
207. 7:40the margins of the the draft and the the
208. 7:44final letter
209. 7:45seem to be from different sources from
210. 7:47different paper
211. 7:48so i don't know but it's possible that
212. 7:51if the draft was done in this notebook
213. 7:54that it would still have been in there
214. 7:55it's also possible she may have put some
215. 7:57of her thoughts in the notebook
216. 8:00but the flip side of that is
217. 8:03she may have just used that notebook to
218. 8:04record sort of
219. 8:06aphorisms from the thrive conference and
220. 8:08sort of
221. 8:09motivational things it may not have had
222. 8:11much to do with her personal life i
223. 8:13could be wrong
224. 8:14i'm just saying that this is what she
225. 8:15was saying
226. 8:17the bottom line here is that nicole
227. 8:19atkinson did have
228. 8:20some knowledge that um
229. 8:28she was aware that shenanig told them
230. 8:30that that
231. 8:31she was going to write him a letter over
232. 8:33the weekend now she may have assumed
233. 8:36that that that was still going to happen
234. 8:38in other words she was going to give him
235. 8:40the letter either on monday
236. 8:44or when she got back she may not have
237. 8:46known that
238. 8:47shenan had already given him the letter
239. 8:49given him the note
240. 8:51or she may have misunderstood it is i
241. 8:54think
242. 8:55kind of significant that nicole didn't
243. 8:58really say anything
244. 9:00in other words when kunrod said there
245. 9:02was no no to anything and but then
246. 9:04unfortunately walks away
247. 9:06that was an opportunity for nicole to
248. 9:08say something about the letter
249. 9:10and um again you might say well where's
250. 9:13all of this going you know it doesn't
251. 9:14really matter it doesn't matter because
252. 9:16if they had found that letter if they'd
253. 9:19also look for the letter on shanann's
254. 9:20phone and i think they probably did find
255. 9:23the letter on her phone anyway i think
256. 9:26that is what they
257. 9:27found on her phone when they did a quick
258. 9:30analysis on it
259. 9:32they were able to find it and read it
260. 9:33and that told them everything as well
261. 9:35that told them and i don't think chris
262. 9:37watts knew this i don't think he was
263. 9:39aware
264. 9:40that they could have read the letter
265. 9:42that she wrote to them
266. 9:43on her phone and seen that she didn't
267. 9:46intend to leave him
268. 9:47she wasn't unhappily married she was
269. 9:51at the end still declaring her love and
270. 9:55her commitment and investment
271. 9:57in the relationship with him right so
272. 10:00that's the one side of it
273. 10:02so what i'm what i'm just in summary
274. 10:04what i'm kind of getting at is that
275. 10:06[ __ ] rod was completely on the right
276. 10:08track there
277. 10:09and in a way he threw the tile on his
278. 10:12own question he sort of
279. 10:13he sort of turned his back on what and
280. 10:17nicole atkinson as he walked into the
281. 10:18bedroom and was just saying
282. 10:20well there was no no to anything and
283. 10:22they or chris watch had to do a sort of
284. 10:24murmur
285. 10:25no of course there was and
286. 10:28there's nicole atkinson standing there
287. 10:31but she's probably thinking
288. 10:34i don't know whether chris watts has
289. 10:35done anything i don't know whether
290. 10:37and that's the other side it doesn't
291. 10:39necessarily mean
292. 10:41uh but all i'm saying is it is important
293. 10:43to to
294. 10:44for witnesses to mention everything they
295. 10:47know
296. 10:47because it can mean a lot and it can
297. 10:50change the course of an investigation
298. 10:53so that is the one side of the story the
299. 10:55other side of the story
300. 10:56is where kunright goes next door
301. 10:59and he talks to trunastic and they
302. 11:02view the video footage and then chris
303. 11:05watts exits the scene
304. 11:07and then between the two of them um
305. 11:11nasty sort of intimates that
306. 11:14that chris watts isn't acting right and
307. 11:16that he's very suspicious
308. 11:18and now it's also difficult to know how
309. 11:20much of trunasite's
310. 11:22testimony to rely on because he later
311. 11:25kind of recanted some of it he said well
312. 11:28you know maybe i was exaggerating or
313. 11:29those weren't the words he used but
314. 11:31he said something like i don't know if
315. 11:33they were arguing any more than anyone
316. 11:35else would argue
317. 11:37in any event what is quite interesting
318. 11:39is although trustnastic was correct
319. 11:42and he was right about what didn't load
320. 11:44tools is also right that
321. 11:46it was strange that what went to so much
322. 11:48trouble to back
323. 11:49he didn't just back his truck up the the
324. 11:51driveway he backed it
325. 11:53right up the driveway where that little
326. 11:56section at the back
327. 11:57was obscured by the little section of
328. 12:00wall
329. 12:02and i think that is quite significant he
330. 12:03didn't just back it up
331. 12:05and that's something he noted the other
332. 12:06thing he noted was that
333. 12:08he
334. 12:12was swaying from left to right he was
335. 12:15talking a lot he was a guy who usually
336. 12:16didn't say very much
337. 12:18but in terms of his actual behavior he
338. 12:20said chris watts never
339. 12:22backs his truck up and he doesn't take
340. 12:25he doesn't put a lot into his truck it's
341. 12:26usually like
342. 12:27he would say something like a water
343. 12:29container um
344. 12:32a bag that that he says looked like it
345. 12:34was carrying a notebook computer
346. 12:36and um maybe a lunch box or something
347. 12:40but in other words he wouldn't really
348. 12:42need to take more than one or two trips
349. 12:45and so this was very unusual and i think
350. 12:48that is a
351. 12:49issue that the police and witnesses face
352. 12:52is the ability of people to express
353. 12:56themselves in words in english
354. 12:59in a way that clearly captures what they
355. 13:03know
356. 13:04and what is strange about the situation
357. 13:07so anyway let's listen to that little
358. 13:09section where trunasic is explaining
359. 13:12why he thinks what's his behavior is
360. 13:14suspicious
361. 13:15and then kunrod actually says well
362. 13:18it
363. 13:33he never talks so the fact that he's
364. 13:35over here blabbing his mouth makes me
365. 13:37kind of suspicious
366. 13:39yeah but i mean you put yourself in his
367. 13:41situation oh i agree
368. 13:43you know anyone's going to be nervous he
369. 13:44don't know what to do
370. 13:46no i agree but i'm just saying the way
371. 13:48he told you three times what he brought
372. 13:51with him why is he telling you exactly
373. 13:52what he brought with him
374. 13:53instead of saying oh they didn't see
375. 13:55anybody out here he didn't see anybody
376. 13:57doing anything
377. 13:58you know what i'm saying why is he so
378. 14:00worried about you knowing what he's
379. 14:02carrying out
380. 14:03that's all i'm saying
381. 14:07what's that he's talking to him right
382. 14:11now okay
383. 14:13so what you can also pick up in this is
384. 14:15that once chris watts has
385. 14:17left nathaniel to nastich's
386. 14:21lounge once he's not there anymore
387. 14:25they start sort of
388. 14:29talking about him behind his back being
389. 14:32suspicious or whatever they talk about
390. 14:35and
391. 14:35it's it's gymnastics sort of doing it um
392. 14:39nicole atkinson in a way to a credit
393. 14:42doesn't really say very much
394. 14:44and nicholas is also there and he also
395. 14:46makes a few comments about
396. 14:48backing up i say to a credit because
397. 14:54um in in a sense
398. 14:58we've all got to remember with everybody
399. 14:59it's innocent until proven guilty
400. 15:02and i think when chris watts was
401. 15:04standing there
402. 15:06um that is maybe a time even for a lay
403. 15:09witness to say you don't seem to be
404. 15:11acting right
405. 15:13there's nothing wrong with that in a
406. 15:14situation like that with the police
407. 15:16to say why are you acting so weird
408. 15:18you're sort of moving
409. 15:20in in other words in front of the police
410. 15:21when you say something like that
411. 15:23then he's got to defend himself and he's
412. 15:25got to explain his behavior and in this
413. 15:28case
414. 15:28he was guilty but
415. 15:32bear in mind obviously we have the
416. 15:33benefit of hindsight
417. 15:35and we know the situation now i think
418. 15:37for most people in a situation where you
419. 15:39don't know
420. 15:40the outcome and it's somebody maybe that
421. 15:42you don't know that well
422. 15:46that that is involved with someone maybe
423. 15:47that you do know that well
424. 15:49are you going to know everything
425. 15:53kind of in in a moment and the answer is
426. 15:56no you're going to be quite cautious
427. 15:58about what you say
428. 15:59and you're going to be quite careful
429. 16:00about what
430. 16:02you don't know for sure and of course
431. 16:06the perpetrator in this case chris watts
432. 16:09is going to use what you don't know to
433. 16:11his advantage
434. 16:13right and um
435. 16:16how the lord works is the law does give
436. 16:18you the benefit of the doubt until
437. 16:20anything is proved right
438. 16:23so the purpose of this episode is really
439. 16:26to show you
440. 16:27how things can slip away for example
441. 16:31in terms of the the note that was
442. 16:34actually written
443. 16:36and
444. 16:39nicole atkinson did sort of know about
445. 16:42it now obviously it's no train smash
446. 16:44law enforcement did eventually find out
447. 16:46about it fortunately
448. 16:48in terms of this case shenan
449. 16:50photographed it but
450. 16:51it it could easily have been something
451. 16:53that could have been completely lost
452. 16:54shenan could have written the note not
453. 16:57told anyone
454. 16:59and what could have taken the note and
455. 17:01destroyed it and
456. 17:02we would never have known about it right
457. 17:05i do think
458. 17:06her writing that note which in a way
459. 17:09exonerated herself
460. 17:11um you know the note also shows her
461. 17:14commitment for children for the whole
462. 17:16family
463. 17:17she didn't know that she was going to be
464. 17:19implicated in his little story
465. 17:22but it is interesting that she wrote a
466. 17:24note and apparently he also wrote a note
467. 17:26he wrote a note apparently when he
468. 17:28visited his family
469. 17:30saying if she does something and i mean
470. 17:32i think that's also very interesting
471. 17:33because why didn't ronnie
472. 17:35produce that note when ever
473. 17:39i mean why was that no not produced
474. 17:42that's another note where one can ask
475. 17:44well what's the story about
476. 17:45behind that anyway i'm not going to take
477. 17:47things further than that
478. 17:50there are a couple of you have been
479. 17:51talking about the
480. 17:53does that make sense shirt that has been
481. 17:57showing a couple of times on in various
482. 18:00episodes and
483. 18:01a couple of you've been saying well i'd
484. 18:03buy that shirt kind of thing well
485. 18:05the good news is um those shirts
486. 18:08are available on teespring so i'll put a
487. 18:12link for that
488. 18:12in the uh in the description
489. 18:16according to teespring if you order now
490. 18:20it will be you will get it by christmas
491. 18:23and so there are some really nice shirts
492. 18:26in different colors with does that make
493. 18:28sense on it as well as
494. 18:30leggings socks and and whatnot so so
495. 18:33head on over there if you're interested
496. 18:35um it's a great way of supporting me and
497. 18:37this channel
498. 18:38and and if you do support me i would
499. 18:40really appreciate it in terms
500. 18:42of jonbenet ramsay the
501. 18:45timeline countdown starts
502. 18:48the 10th of december so from the 10th of
503. 18:51december
504. 18:52i'll be taking you through the
505. 18:54chronology of the
506. 18:55jonbenet ramsey case um you know
507. 18:58in chronological order but also in real
508. 19:01time
509. 19:02and you're going to see how that kind of
510. 19:04changes the case
511. 19:06in a big way there's quite a lot to
512. 19:09to talk to you about the timeline and
513. 19:12you know
514. 19:12starting on the 10th of december is kind
515. 19:14of an arbitrary date one could really
516. 19:16start anywhere
517. 19:17because there's just so much in terms of
518. 19:19that timeline
519. 19:20that the family dynamics in the ramsey
520. 19:23case or are really quite complicated
521. 19:26anyway that is my story uh thank you
522. 19:29guys for listening
523. 19:30for those who've subscribed recently
524. 19:32thank you and welcome to the channel
525. 19:34and i'll see you guys next time
526. 19:52[Music]
527. 20:29you