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Confidence Expert: The Quiet Habit Behind Self-Belief You Can’t Fake | Dr. Shadé Zahrai — Transcript

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0:00If someone was to listen to our podcast
0:01today,
0:02what would they overcome and what skills
0:04would they build?
0:05>> So, this is essentially going to be a
0:07masterclass on self-doubt, but not only
0:10what it is, actually determining for
0:12yourself what are the drivers of your
0:15self-doubt. Because we think self-doubt
0:16is just one big blob of worry and
0:18anxiety and insecurity, but when we look
0:20at decades worth of literature, my own
0:23research over the past 5 years, we've
0:25distilled it down to four main drivers.
0:28And so, if you're able to determine,
0:30"Okay, where am I on these drivers?
0:32Which one is really propelling my
0:33self-doubt?" That allows you to then
0:35determine what you need to do to move
0:37through it. As you said, self-doubt
0:39doesn't necessarily disappear with
0:41achievement, it doesn't disappear as you
0:43advance in your career, it just scales
0:45with responsibility. But, the real
0:46measure of someone's success and
0:48happiness is if they can hear the voice
0:50of self-doubt and still move forward
0:52anyway.
0:53>> Yeah.
0:53>> And so, what I want to help everyone
0:54listening with today is to determine
0:57which of the drivers of their self-doubt
0:59is taking the driver's seat and then
1:01exactly what they need to do to move
1:03through it. So, they can get the
1:04connection they want, the success they
1:06want, the performance that they want,
1:07and create the life that they want.
1:09>> I love it. Let's Let's talk about the
1:10four drivers because I'm fascinated now
1:12as well to
1:13>> Let's do it.
1:13>> to discover which Which ones I've been
1:15dealing with.
1:15>> Yes. We can actually diagnose your doubt
1:17profile
1:18>> dive in.
1:18>> So, the first thing we need to do is
1:20rewind a little bit.
1:21How did we come across these four
1:22drivers? So, we've been working with
1:24leaders and teams across organizations
1:26for the last 5 to 10 years. That's tens
1:29of thousands of people. And we found
1:31that again, no matter where someone was
1:32at on their journey, they were hearing
1:34this voice of doubt. And it would sound
1:36different and it would look different.
1:38But, then we wanted to know, "Okay,
1:39specifically what is driving this?"
1:42And we need to bring it back to
1:43something called your self-image.
1:45Let me tell you about a study that was
1:46conducted in the '70s and it opens your
1:49mind as to the power of the self-image
1:51that we have about ourselves and how
1:53that keeps repeating throughout our
1:55lives.
1:56So, in the 1970s, a psychology professor
1:58by the name of Robert Kleck from
2:00Dartmouth, he conducted this fascinating
2:02experiment where he brought people
2:04together, he split them into groups, and
2:06with one group he drew a scar on their
2:07face from their right ear to the side of
2:11their mouth. Big ugly scar, and he let
2:13them see themselves in a hand mirror.
2:15Then he sends
2:16the groups out to have conversation with
2:18strangers, right? So, you have one group
2:20that has a scar, another group has no
2:22scar.
2:23After the conversations, they come back,
2:25and they report on how they felt the
2:26conversation went. The group with the
2:28scar overwhelmingly reported that they
2:31felt judged, it was tense, the other
2:34person was distant because of the scar.
2:37But here is where it gets really
2:38interesting. If we we rewind just a
2:41little bit, right before the researcher
2:43sent them out into these conversations,
2:45he applied moisturizing cream to the
2:46scar, so they just seen themselves in
2:48the mirror. He then applies this cream,
2:50but he doesn't tell them that he's
2:52removing the scar.
2:53>> Wow.
2:54>> So, now they have no scar on their face,
2:56but they believe that they do.
2:59They go into these conversations
3:00believing, expecting they will be
3:03treated badly, poorly, judged, and
3:06that's what they experienced.
3:07>> Wow.
3:08>> It's wild. When you think about the
3:10implications for us in our lives,
3:12okay, it may not be a physical scar, but
3:14we all have beliefs or expectations
3:16about ourselves based on how we see
3:19ourselves, our self-image, and then
3:21we're going to notice things that
3:23reinforce it because of how the brain is
3:25wired.
3:25>> Mhm.
3:26>> Confirmation bias, selective attention.
3:28Your brain is wired to magnify what you
3:30focus on. So, if you're going into your
3:32life, into your conversations, into your
3:35meetings, into your work believing that
3:37you're not worthy, that you're not
3:39capable, that you don't deserve it,
3:41you're going to notice things that
3:42reinforce that, and it's only going to
3:44make you feel worse.
3:46So, we know that about self-image. So,
3:47the first question to ask ourselves is
3:49what are these invisible scars that we
3:50are carrying throughout our lives.
3:53How can we become more aware of them?
3:55So then my next question is great. So
3:57that's the power of self-image.
3:59And self-image drives our self-doubt.
4:02But how do you measure self-image? If I
4:04were to ask you Jay, what do you think
4:05your self-image is? You might share
4:07something and then I'd ask someone else,
4:09what do you think your self-image is?
4:10And they might share something else. We
4:12need to determine if something is
4:13measurable so we can determine what it
4:15is. And when we look at over 50 years
4:18worth of research, this is when we find
4:20that yes, there's a lot of information
4:22out there, but it really comes down to
4:24just four dimensions of how we see
4:27ourselves. And when these four things
4:30come together, that shapes our
4:31self-image, it shapes how we interact
4:34with the world. Not only that,
4:36these four things that actually have
4:38their base in our personality, they have
4:41been shown through meta-analyses of over
4:42100 studies to predict our success, our
4:46job performance, our career
4:48satisfaction, how happy we are in our
4:51life and our relationships, and it all
4:52comes down to these four things.
4:55And I could not believe it when I came
4:56across it. So let me tell you what these
4:58four things are because essentially
4:59these four things drive our self-image,
5:02which then drives our self-doubt when
5:04they're weak.
5:05So the very, very first one, the first
5:07driver of your self-doubt which shapes
5:09your self-image, is what we call
5:11acceptance, self-acceptance.
5:14It relates to this personality trait of
5:16self-esteem. So how you see yourself in
5:19terms of your value and your worth.
5:22Now if you don't accept yourself, it
5:24shows up in four painfully familiar
5:26habits.
5:27The first one is what we call the
5:28pressure to prove.
5:30You feel like you constantly have to
5:32prove yourself through your work,
5:34through your performance.
5:36You have to prove that you are of value
5:37to other people so you seek their
5:39validation and their praise. And when
5:41you don't get it, it becomes this
5:43automatic switch and you need to win it
5:45back.
5:46>> Mhm. That's the first. The second one is
5:49what we call the shrinking syndrome. So,
5:51this is where someone might
5:53be afraid of success
5:55because they don't accept who they are
5:58and therefore they're afraid of what
5:59will happen if something amazing happens
6:02to them because deep down they don't
6:03feel like they deserve it. So, then they
6:05try and sabotage before they get there.
6:07The third is what we call the
6:09Schadenfreude cycle.
6:11And the Schadenfreude cycle, you may
6:13have heard of it, it's a German term.
6:15It's that moment when you see someone
6:16else fail and you suddenly feel really
6:18good about yourself.
6:19>> Mhm.
6:20>> You feel a little bit better about
6:21yourself. You enjoy other people's
6:23failures.
6:24This is a sign that you do not accept
6:26yourself.
6:27>> Wow.
6:27>> Your self-esteem is suffering.
6:30And then the fourth pattern that we see
6:31here is of course that endless need for
6:33approval.
6:34We need other people to like us, to
6:36validate us. We might become codependent
6:39in our relationships. We say yes when we
6:41really want to say no. We wear masks and
6:43contort ourselves to better suit the
6:46people around us, but in doing so we
6:48lose ourselves.
6:49>> Mhm.
6:49>> So, that is the first and the in my view
6:52the most foundational, acceptance.
6:55>> And as I'm learning about it from you,
6:57it feels like that starts so early
7:00and you're just carrying it for all
7:02these years and then you become aware of
7:05it when
7:06you're starting to apply for a job or
7:08you're wanting to put yourself forward
7:09for a promotion or you're trying to find
7:12the relationship of your dreams and all
7:13of a sudden now you're like, "Whoa, why
7:15do I feel this way?" And I can imagine a
7:17lot of our listeners right now are
7:19sitting here going, "Shadae, I do all of
7:21those four things."
7:22>> That's me.
7:22>> Yeah, that's me. And so, if someone's
7:25listening right now and they're saying,
7:26"Shadae J, that's me. I do all four of
7:29those things. I have no idea. Do I have
7:31to stop doing those things? Do I have to
7:34So, I self-acceptance, that is the issue
7:36that I'm having. I don't accept myself
7:38according to your four measures.
7:40Where do I even begin to go? What
7:42questions should I be asking from that
7:44point?
7:45>> So, I love how you mentioned that we
7:46develop this early in life. Let's start
7:48there, and then we'll go to how we can
7:49start to break the the attachment that
7:51we have to this. So, generally this
7:53sense of acceptance that we have
7:54develops in the first
7:56three to four years.
7:58Initially, it's based on the response we
8:00get from our parents, our primary
8:01caregivers, and then it also develops
8:04based on whether we feel that we get the
8:06emotional support and the nurturing that
8:08we need.
8:10If you feel like you constantly have to
8:12earn your parents' attention or
8:15do something exciting to get them to pay
8:17attention to you, then we develop this
8:18belief that I must perform to be worthy.
8:22It can also happen later in life when a
8:24parent says to you or compares your
8:26report card, your grades, to a sibling.
8:29Or makes you feel like you're only of
8:31value when you're winning an award or
8:34coming first in the swimming
8:37competition that you're in.
8:38The race. So, we develop these really
8:40early on, and you know, we do need to
8:42acknowledge so much of who we are as a
8:43result of those early experiences. That
8:45doesn't mean we are a prisoner to that,
8:47and it doesn't mean that we should be
8:49blaming
8:50that environment and our parents and our
8:53you know, the caregivers that we had. We
8:54need to acknowledge that they were doing
8:56the best that they could with what they
8:57knew at the time. We have this beautiful
8:59ability of taking ownership of our
9:01lives, which actually comes down to the
9:02third pillar, which we'll get to, which
9:04allows us to, as you said, become aware
9:06of these patterns. So often, Jay, and if
9:09you're listening, you may find that you
9:11have not been aware of these things, and
9:13it's only when you listen to sessions
9:15like this, conversations like this, when
9:17you read a book, where you suddenly
9:18start to almost self-diagnose and
9:20realize, uh-oh, this is me.
9:23See that as a really positive thing,
9:25because you're identifying that you are
9:27part of this experience as opposed to
9:29just this is who I am.
9:31So, that's a really positive thing. So,
9:32what do we do if we identify, okay, I'm
9:34really struggling with acceptance?
9:37The very first thing is to acknowledge
9:38that you are not your thoughts and you
9:40are not your beliefs.
9:42Beliefs are simply just a repeated
9:44pattern of thought that has happened so
9:45many times in our brain that it becomes
9:48a default. It's just a really, really
9:50fast process neural pathway.
9:52And in the same way that a belief is
9:53formed early in our lives, we can
9:56override that belief. Yes, it takes
9:58time. Yes, it takes repetition. Yes, it
10:00takes practice.
10:02But we have the ability to do that
10:04through conscious choice.
10:05And so the moment you start noticing
10:08that you're feeling insecure, those
10:10thoughts come into your mind, I can't do
10:11this, I don't deserve this, I'm not
10:13enough. That's the key phrase for
10:15someone who lacks acceptance. I'm not
10:17enough. So I must prove that I'm enough.
10:19I must earn
10:21that feeling from other people. I must
10:22chase it through achievement.
10:24The moment you notice that,
10:26consciously re-engage the prefrontal
10:28part of your brain.
10:30This is how you re-engage attention and
10:32say to yourself, hold on.
10:34I don't need to believe that thought. I
10:35don't need to believe that belief.
10:38Remind yourself that I have value.
10:41I am of value. And one of the simplest
10:44hacks that you can use in those moments
10:46is to stop thinking about yourself.
10:49I know that sounds really odd to say,
10:50but when we are suffering with a lack of
10:52self-acceptance, it's always I, me, my.
10:55How do they see me?
10:57How am I coming across?
10:59What am I doing right now?
11:01If you can shift and go, okay, how can I
11:02be here for them? How can I be of value?
11:05How can I be of service? How can I make
11:06this person feel seen?
11:09That's called self-forgetting. And
11:11research shows that this process of
11:12self-forgetting by becoming more
11:14service-oriented
11:15helps to quieten that incessant voice of
11:17the ego.
11:18>> Yeah.
11:19>> And it's remarkable how when you tap
11:20into that, suddenly you realize, okay, I
11:23don't have to be so in my head.
11:25>> Yeah.
11:26>> I want to share just a couple of really
11:27simple techniques for anyone who really
11:29does struggle with acceptance.
11:31The first one is if you struggle with
11:33acceptance, you are going to attach your
11:35sense of identity to your job
11:38and to your achievements and to your
11:40performance. So, if things are going
11:42well professionally, if you're achieving
11:43things, if you're doing amazing things,
11:45you feel fantastic. And then something
11:48happens and it all crumbles and you
11:49fail, you take it personally. You
11:51internalize that failure.
11:53>> Mhm.
11:54>> So, the first and foremost thing you
11:55need to do is acknowledge you are not
11:57your job.
11:58There is so much to do that exists
12:00outside of that environment, which I
12:02know is really hard to do if you work
12:04especially in a corporate organization
12:06where your entire status is determined
12:09by your job title
12:10and how well you're delivering
12:12and your promotion track record, right?
12:14So, we tend to internalize these things.
12:16But, you need to consciously remind
12:17yourself through that prefrontal
12:19activation I am not my job. I am so much
12:21more than this. And there's a really
12:23interesting little technique we like to
12:24share, not even a technique, it's
12:25actually a suggestion.
12:27So, Jay, there was a study that was
12:29conducted with Nobel Prize-winning
12:31scientists.
12:32And they looked at 500 of them and they
12:34found that they were three times more
12:36likely than regular scientists to have a
12:39creative hobby.
12:40>> Mhm.
12:41>> Not only that, they were 22 times more
12:43likely than regular scientists to have a
12:45hobby in the performing arts. Singing,
12:48music, drama.
12:50>> Wow.
12:51>> They many of them attribute that hobby
12:53to helping them bounce back when things
12:56didn't go to plan
12:58and also to allowing them to make
13:00connections that other people wouldn't
13:01have been able to.
13:02>> Mhm.
13:03>> And so, what can we take from that? It's
13:05great, right? It's a cool study.
13:07>> What can we take from that? Well, having
13:09something outside of work that we can
13:11pour ourselves into, especially
13:13something creative cuz we know about the
13:14impact that has in the brain, that
13:16allows us to remind ourselves, "Hey,
13:18even if I didn't do well today at work,
13:20even if I didn't achieve this thing that
13:21I wanted to,
13:22I get to go and take on that character
13:24in that play. I get to go and pick up my
13:26guitar. I get to go and paint that
13:28beautiful painting.
13:29And fascinatingly, hobbies, especially
13:32creative hobbies, have been found to
13:33increase your self-esteem, which
13:35increases your sense of self-acceptance.
13:37>> Yes.
13:38>> So, it's a very odd one, but I would
13:39encourage you if you struggle here, go
13:41and pick up a hobby and embrace the
13:43messiness of being a beginner.
13:45>> Like if you just sit there in dreamland
13:47and think of everything being perfect,
13:49we know that's never going to happen.
13:51And also we have this tendency to just
13:53think in nightmares, where well,
13:55everything's going wrong, nothing's ever
13:57going to work out, I'm not worth
13:59anything. And these we almost gravitate
14:01to these extremes because they feel
14:02safer in a weird way. Why Why do we do
14:05that? Why do we gravitate to these
14:07extremes?
14:07>> The brain craves certainty. The brain
14:10fundamentally craves certainty. And the
14:12reason why, when we look at
14:13fundamentally why the brain does what it
14:15does, its primary function, a lot of
14:17people say its primary function is to
14:19protect us.
14:20There's a little bit more to it. The
14:22primary function of the brain really is
14:24to make sure that the rest of the body
14:26is doing what it needs to do while using
14:28the least amount of metabolic energy.
14:31Right? So, it needs us to function while
14:33using as little energy as possible.
14:36And so, part of that is obviously
14:37protecting you because then if you're in
14:39a situation where you're having to deal
14:41with something terrible happening, the
14:42brain has to put in a lot more effort.
14:44So, it will often magnify everything
14:47that could go wrong because if it does
14:49that, it gives you a sense of certainty.
14:51No, this is going to happen, you're
14:52going to fail, you're going to fall
14:53short, they're going to laugh at you,
14:54they're going to reject you.
14:55>> And at least you know.
14:56>> At least you know, so that you don't do
14:59the thing.
15:00Because if you do the thing and that
15:01happens, your brain's going to have to
15:03put in a lot more work to get you
15:04through that. So, if it can prevent you
15:06from taking that step, and we actually
15:07refer to this as what's called the
15:09misguided protector in our mind. It's
15:11that voice, it's an inner deceiver,
15:14and it's trying to protect us, but it's
15:16misguided. But fundamentally, it will
15:18highlight everything that could go wrong
15:20so that we don't take action because
15:22then it succeeds. Then we're safe,
15:24>> Mhm. but we're stuck. And then the other
15:26extreme of course is only visualizing
15:28where we want to be cuz again it's
15:30certainty. No, I'm guaranteed for that
15:32to happen.
15:33And then we know what happens when you
15:34hit a roadblock. Suddenly everything
15:36crumbles. And then you go into the other
15:38side. Oh no, all these things are going
15:39to go wrong. So when we recognize that
15:42this is just our brain doing what it
15:43needs to do. There's something else
15:44which is really interesting here. There
15:46is a connection between intelligence and
15:48anxiety.
15:50People who tend to be higher on intell-
15:51on IQ
15:53ratings of IQ, they tend to be more
15:55aware of complexity.
15:57More aware of all the risks that could
15:58go wrong.
16:00Which then leads them to overthink about
16:03those risks.
16:04And then overthink about what could
16:06happen if those risks actually occurred,
16:08which increases anxiety, which reduces
16:10confidence, and then reinforces that
16:13initial state of awareness of the
16:14complexity. And so if you're listening
16:17to this and you feel like you're
16:18constantly overthinking and you're
16:19constantly aware of risks, it could be
16:21that you have a slightly higher than
16:22average IQ, but it's also important to
16:24know that we can break that cycle.
16:26We call it the spiral interrupt
16:28technique. When this is happening, the
16:30part of the brain that's activated is
16:32the emotion center, the threat detection
16:34center. It's trying to identify
16:35everything that could go wrong to keep
16:37you safe.
16:38So what you can do is control your
16:40attention. Bring your attention back to
16:44what can I control right now? By
16:46literally saying to yourself, this is my
16:48brain doing what it does. I am safe to
16:51act anyway.
16:53So again, simply by doing that, by
16:55consciously controlling your thoughts,
16:56you are re-engaging those prefrontal
16:58regions, which reduces activity in the
17:00amygdala, in the fear centers,
17:03and allows you to have that moment of
17:04rationality to then decide what's next.
17:07>> Yeah, I can think of a really good
17:08personal example of that. I remember
17:11I so I was very fortunate to go to
17:12public speaking school from age 11 to 18
17:14and
17:15had training and found it comfortable
17:18being on stage and everything else, but
17:20then as soon as my scales started to
17:21change and I started to work in
17:24different audiences and different arenas
17:25and different spaces, I could notice
17:28that my heart rate would go up. I could
17:30notice that my hands would start to
17:32shake. I could notice that I felt sweaty
17:35palms. I could notice that I felt
17:37nervous and anxious.
17:39And I used to start to think, well, I
17:40have the skills and I'm like, what am I
17:42doing wrong here? Like, you know, and
17:43I'd overthink that. And then I'd
17:45overthink and go, oh my god, everyone's
17:46going to see my hand shaking and then
17:48I'm I'm going to hold the card or like
17:49should I put it down or like what if my
17:51slides and then and then you're
17:52overthinking it. And it was a it's what
17:54you just said and I had a different set
17:56of words for it that I would say
17:57internally. And it was just, no, this is
18:00what happens when I care.
18:01>> Yeah.
18:01>> And what I started to realize was, oh,
18:03when I care,
18:05I my body's going to do this
18:07and I can go and give an amazing talk
18:09anyway, but I care. That's all it's
18:11showing me. And I don't need to stop
18:14this or I don't need to get over this or
18:17I don't need this to disappear in order
18:19for me to go out there and do what I do.
18:21And and it you're so right that that
18:23simple moment of And it goes back to
18:25acceptance that this is just
18:27biologically what happens when I care.
18:28>> Yeah.
18:28>> I get a bit nervous and my heart beats
18:30faster and all all the things that And
18:32it's like, okay, if I can reframe that,
18:35so much can happen.
18:36>> Mhm. I love that you mentioned that one
18:37as well, this idea of caring, because
18:39when we acknowledge that our brain is
18:40just doing what it's wired to do and
18:42then we can
18:44we can essentially interpret what we're
18:46feeling
18:47in a way that's going to serve us. And
18:49so we can either interpret that heart
18:51rate, as you said, as you get into the
18:52overthinking of the overthinking and
18:53then you're stressed about the stress.
18:55It's called a meta emotion, where it's
18:57like an emotion about an emotion and it
18:58just spirals out of control.
19:01Or you can say, no, no, this is my brain
19:03is just doing its job.
19:04I'm prepared. I'm ready. I'm going to be
19:06of service here. I care. I care about
19:09delivering a good outcome. And it's
19:11powerful when you recognize that.
19:13>> Yeah. What's the second A?
19:14>> Okay, so that's the first A, that's
19:15acceptance. The second A
19:17>> And there's so much more in the book. I
19:18just want
19:18>> There's so much more
19:19>> There's so much more in the book. I am
19:20just moving us through as as we discuss
19:23some of the ideas.
19:24>> If you want to share one other thing for
19:25people who struggle with acceptance,
19:26just because it comes up so frequently,
19:28especially for people early in their
19:29careers.
19:31And this was me 15 years ago working in
19:33corporate in a male-dominated
19:34environment. I started my career as a
19:36lawyer, commercial law. I was in that
19:38industry for 4 years, then I moved into
19:40banking and finance for 6 years.
19:42Oh gosh, the whole time I felt like an
19:43impostor. I felt like I didn't belong. I
19:45felt like a hiring mistake. But I forget
19:47I got very good at faking it.
19:49So, okay, now I'm going to share a
19:50little bit of my story. So, when I was
19:53very young, the age of 3 or 4, I had a
19:55beautiful supportive Persian family, and
19:57we'd always get together at my
19:58grandparents' house and have kebab that
20:00my grandpa would make.
20:02And then after dinner, so I was a I
20:04liked performing as a as a kid. After
20:06dinner, there would be this chant,
20:08"Shahrbanoo bayad beraghsad." Which
20:10means Shahrbanoo has to dance for us.
20:12And it was great. When I was a kid, I'd
20:13get up and I'd do my little thing and
20:15they'd watch and they'd cheer and it was
20:16fantastic.
20:17But then as I got older, I started to
20:19enjoy it less and less.
20:22But I didn't know how to say no.
20:24And so at the age of 9 or 10 or 12,
20:27I still felt like I had to perform to
20:29make people happy. This was entirely in
20:31my head. If I had communicated to them
20:33or set a boundary or said, "Look, I
20:34don't feel like it." They would have
20:35been fine. My family loved me. I didn't
20:37know, and I internalized from a young
20:39age
20:40that I am only as good as the
20:42performance I'm giving.
20:44Which means making other people happy.
20:46And I have carried that with me through
20:47my entire career. In fact, one of the
20:49drivers of me doing a PhD,
20:52which was one of the hardest things I've
20:53ever done,
20:54was because of this feeling of not being
20:56enough
20:57and needing to still prove myself.
21:00Which is the wrong reason to do
21:02anything. And I will tell you this much,
21:03it's done and I still don't feel
21:06I still haven't developed that
21:07acceptance. So, it's an ongoing process
21:08for me and I'm very aware of it and I'm
21:10working on the habits to develop it.
21:12But, when I entered the workforce, so I
21:13I did law
21:15because
21:16I did really great in high school
21:18and I had a lot of pressure to use those
21:20grades. So, it was like law, medicine,
21:22engineering. I wasn't going to do math
21:24or engineering, so I did law. I did it
21:25with psychology cuz I was passionate
21:26about people.
21:28But, law was so difficult for me that I
21:30had to focus so much on it. And I had to
21:32overcompensate because I didn't feel
21:35like I belonged. I tried to drop it
21:36after the first class.
21:38But, any any case, I kept with it.
21:41Never felt like I belonged. I I was able
21:42to do really well. I got fantastic
21:44grades at the end. Got a job in a
21:46top-tier commercial law firm, but that
21:48feeling of this is not me, this is not
21:51for me stuck with me. And I was trying
21:53to fake it till I made it. So, I was
21:55becoming someone different. I was
21:56speaking differently. I was showing up
21:58differently.
21:59Trying to sound smart and credible,
22:01using big, fancy words to fit in. What I
22:04now know is that that can backfire.
22:06Studies have been found that when you
22:07use unnecessarily complex language
22:11where you're trying to be perceived as
22:12more credible and competent, it does the
22:14opposite and it undermines your
22:15credibility and your competence.
22:17Simplicity. It's all about simplicity,
22:19but I didn't know that. So, I carried
22:21that through banking. I was so full of
22:22anxiety. I'd literally hide behind my
22:24cubicle so people couldn't give me work
22:26cuz if they didn't know I was there
22:28I wouldn't
22:29basically be given it. Then, I moved
22:30into banking and finance convinced that
22:32if I moved into a different industry, I
22:34could start fresh, reinvent myself,
22:37leave the doubt behind.
22:39Do you think that happened?
22:40>> No.
22:41>> Absolutely not. Doubt doesn't work like
22:43that. I took it with me because of my
22:44self-image.
22:46Because I was carrying that self-image
22:48around, the scars I had.
22:50And again, I came from a wonderfully
22:52supportive family and still I had scars.
22:55And one of the things as I was doing
22:56research for this book is, you know,
22:58there's a lot of talk about attachment
22:59theory and those early experiences.
23:02What some people experience is a secure
23:05attachment style when they're young.
23:07They have a supportive environment full
23:08of love and validation, and yet still as
23:11adults, they feel like they're not
23:13enough.
23:14And could be one of two reasons. It
23:16could be that you feel so indebted to
23:18your family that you feel like you need
23:20to keep performing for them to make them
23:22proud.
23:23The second reason is that you might also
23:25have had a sibling who was challenging
23:27just by nature of their personality, and
23:29you saw that, and you didn't want to be
23:31that, and so you became the opposite.
23:33You became the good kid
23:34to be that for your parents, and you
23:36just take that with you. So, that was
23:38me, and then I started feeling guilty
23:39about why am I feeling this self-doubt?
23:41I have no reason to. And so, it became
23:43this whole big thing. Anyway, 7 years in
23:45banking and finance, I eventually found
23:47my way. I tapped into roles that I
23:49loved, learned to lean on my strengths,
23:51and I stopped trying to be like
23:52everybody else, and realized, "Hey, I'm
23:55here because I have some value to offer.
23:57How do I tap into that value?" And then
23:59I love how you brought in imposter
24:00syndrome, which brings us beautifully to
24:02the second pillar, which is agency.
24:06So, just my way of recap, we've just
24:07covered acceptance for everyone
24:09listening, and acceptance is essentially
24:11when your self-esteem is shaky,
24:13you seek validation, you
24:16feel like you need to prove your worth.
24:17Your sense of identity is attached to
24:20what you're producing or performing or
24:22achieving.
24:23The next way that self-doubt can show up
24:26is not to do with the I'm not enough or
24:28I'm not worthy, and entirely to do with
24:30the can I actually do this thing? Do I
24:33have the skills and the ability to do
24:36it?
24:38And what we see here is a lot of people
24:40will fall into imposter syndrome.
24:42>> Shadi, can you actually define what
24:44imposter syndrome is?
24:45>> Imposter syndrome actually doesn't exist
24:48in the literature and the research as
24:49the term imposter syndrome.
24:52It's called imposter phenomenon.
24:54Now, just notice the difference between
24:55a syndrome and a phenomenon. One of them
24:57is a behavioral phenomenon that was
24:59observed among a group of people. The
25:01other one pathologizes it and makes it
25:03seem like there's something wrong with
25:04us. So, imposter syndrome was initially
25:06discovered in the 1970s,
25:08where they were specifically looking at
25:10women. So, this was high-achieving
25:11women, women who had just entered the
25:13workforce, women who had PhDs and a
25:15strong track record behind them,
25:18and they felt like they didn't belong.
25:19They felt like they were frauds. They
25:21felt that they were undeserving of their
25:23success.
25:24They felt that everyone else thought
25:26that they were smarter or more capable
25:28than they really were.
25:30So, there's two elements for the
25:31imposter phenomenon.
25:33We'll move away from syndrome. Imposter
25:35phenomenon. The first element is that
25:37you feel like a fraud, that other people
25:39believe you to be something you're not,
25:41and the second element is that you have
25:42to have some kind of track record behind
25:44you
25:45that allows you to feel like, I don't
25:46deserve this. If you feel like an
25:48imposter and you've just started a new
25:50job,
25:51it's probably not imposter, right? It's
25:53just, I'm in a new environment. I need
25:55to give myself grace to learn.
25:57When we self-diagnose and say, "Oh my
25:59gosh, I'm such an imposter. This is
26:00imposter syndrome." That can lead us to
26:02withdraw even further. We use it as an
26:04excuse.
26:05So, remind yourself, no, the imposter
26:07syndrome or imposter phenomenon is only
26:09when I have achieved something. I've
26:10just won this award. I've got this
26:12amazing job, and I can demonstrate that
26:15I've got all these achievements behind
26:16me, but I still don't feel I deserve it.
26:18>> Yes.
26:19>> That is the definition of imposter
26:21phenomenon, and it is so common, not
26:24just among women, but also among men.
26:26Some studies have found that up to 82%
26:28of people at some point have felt like a
26:30fraud.
26:31So, if you've ever felt this way,
26:33firstly, rest assured, you're in very
26:35good company.
26:37The next thing to be aware of with
26:38imposter syndrome or phenomenon is, if
26:40you feel like a fraud, rather than
26:42hearing that voice saying, "You don't
26:44belong."
26:45"Don't speak to that person. Don't speak
26:47up." Flip it immediately to, "Wow, what
26:50an amazing opportunity I have to learn
26:52and grow.
26:54Who can I learn from? What do I need to
26:56develop here?
26:57So again, it's this idea of shifting
26:59from almost comparison into emulation or
27:01envy into study.
27:03Make it something action-oriented.
27:05That's really powerful. And speak to
27:07someone about it. So you know Jason
27:08Segel from How I Met Your Mother?
27:11He was describing on a podcast how he
27:13was when he transitioned from actor into
27:15director on Dispatches from Elsewhere
27:18from Elsewhere, he was so full of
27:20imposter syndrome and anxiety.
27:24And he said he didn't know what to do.
27:25He was overthinking and it was becoming
27:26this big thing. So finally he calls all
27:28the crew together and in front of
27:30everyone he says, "Hey everyone,
27:32this is my first time doing this.
27:34Don't really know what I'm doing. If I
27:35do anything that bugs you, let me know.
27:38I'm sure we're going to have an amazing
27:39time."
27:40He called it out. He acknowledged. He
27:42didn't try to be perfect as we try to do
27:45when we feel like the imposter. We try
27:46to overcompensate so people don't find
27:48us out. But he just acknowledged it and
27:51he said it was incredibly freeing. When
27:53you call out the fear, it shrinks it.
27:56And so if you're ever feeling this way,
27:58speak to someone about it. You'll
27:59probably find they've been there, too.
28:01>> Yeah. And I love what you said about
28:02this idea of because a lot of people ask
28:05me, they're like, "Jay, do you ever
28:05still feel self-doubt or like an
28:08imposter?" And I said, "I always feel it
28:09when I'm doing something new."
28:10>> Yeah.
28:11>> And that has made me realize that it's
28:13got nothing to do with me.
28:14>> No.
28:15>> It's because I'm trying to get out of my
28:16comfort zone.
28:17>> Yes.
28:17>> So I love it now. So I love the idea of
28:21feeling that way because it's proof to
28:22me that I'm pushing myself outside of my
28:25comfort zone. I'm trying something new.
28:27We're expanding something. We're
28:29building a new business. We're starting
28:30a new venture. We're creating a new
28:32service,
28:33purpose, program, whatever it may be.
28:35It's like I've just never done it
28:36before. And yeah, if I keep doing
28:38everything I've always done, I don't get
28:40nervous anymore, but that's boring to
28:42me. And that's not exciting. And so now
28:45that feeling of being uncomfortable and
28:48being nervous and being
28:51wondering whether I fit in and
28:53everything is great because it's a sign
28:55to me that I'm moving forward.
28:56>> Yes, it's growth with integrity as we
28:59say. Cuz if you had blind delusion, you
29:01wouldn't feel the doubt.
29:02>> Yes.
29:03>> Right? So you've got the integrity, the
29:04intellectual humility to know, okay, I
29:07haven't done this before, here are the
29:08gaps, but you're embracing the
29:11discomfort that comes with growth. You
29:12only experience that kind of imposter
29:14feeling when you're stretched. You would
29:17never feel that if you know how to do
29:18everything and if you're fully
29:19comfortable.
29:20>> And if you're a narcissist, like you're
29:21like you don't feel anything.
29:22>> do need to acknowledge there's like 5 to
29:238% of the population that we're not
29:25talking about.
29:25>> yeah. No, but you're No, but that
29:27delusion point is true that if anyone
29:29ever says, "Oh, I never feel any
29:31self-doubt." There's a sense of
29:32delusional confidence.
29:34>> Or a lack of self-awareness.
29:35>> of self-awareness, which isn't healthy.
29:38>> No.
29:38>> Because you're convinc- and it almost is
29:40an insecurity projection because you're
29:42convincing yourself, "No, no, of course
29:44I don't feel anything." It's like,
29:46"Well, no, everyone's human would feel
29:47You'd feel something no matter even if
29:49it was really small." Like if I I feel
29:52This is a terrible example, but because
29:55uh I don't cook to I can't cook to save
29:56my life. So like if if my wife asked me
29:59to cook dinner, I would be freaking out
30:02because I wouldn't have a clue what to
30:03do. And and it's the small It's a very
30:05small thing that people know how to do.
30:06It's simple. It seems like a easy way.
30:08>> Low risk.
30:09>> Yeah, low risk. Yeah, to some degree.
30:10Yeah, exactly. But but that's the point
30:13that it's it's not even about the
30:15grandiosity of the task. It's about
30:16what's new to you and what you find
30:19difficult. And so no one can even say,
30:21"Oh, but that's small." Or that's big.
30:24Big and small are not the indicators of
30:27whether you feel uncomfortable. And so
30:29for someone something uncomfortable
30:30might be doing something really small.
30:32>> Mhm.
30:32>> Or for someone else it might be doing
30:33something really big and you know.
30:34>> Exactly. Exactly. And a big part of that
30:36comes down to your level of agency.
30:38Where do you fall on that scale? So
30:40agency relates to what's called
30:41self-efficacy. That's a personality
30:43trait, which is the belief that you can
30:45do what you need to do to achieve what
30:47you want to achieve.
30:48I want to take you somewhere which
30:50relates to this and it actually relates
30:52to the overarching theme of the book.
30:54Jay, if I were to ask you, I mean we've
30:56kind of primed it now, but if I were to
30:57ask you off the top of your head, what
30:59do you think the opposite of self-doubt
31:00is?
31:01>> Is it not self-trust?
31:03>> Yeah, so I primed you. So it's it's
31:04absolutely self-trust. So we find though
31:06that 90% of people, if we haven't had
31:08this conversation
31:10I should have asked you that at the very
31:11beginning. When we ask this question,
31:1390% of people will say that it is or 95%
31:16will say it is confidence.
31:19Confidence. And so many people, so much
31:22of the population are waiting for that
31:24feeling of confidence before they take
31:26that step. They say, "I'll know when I'm
31:28ready. I'm you know, that feeling of
31:30confidence that we wait for actually,
31:32when we look at the literature, it does
31:34not come before we take the action.
31:36It comes after we take the action
31:38because the brain needs to see yourself
31:40doing the thing. It gets a proof point.
31:43It gets an evidence point. Hey, I can do
31:44this.
31:45That then builds a degree of skill and
31:47competence. Hey, I did it and I was okay
31:49and I got better, which then boosts your
31:51self-efficacy.
31:53And then that creates momentum and
31:54motivation.
31:55And that is the feeling that we've
31:58associated with confidence.
32:00>> So what do we need before that?
32:01>> So what do we need before it? Well, when
32:02we actually look at the word confidence,
32:03I think this is where the mix-up
32:05happened. When we look at the origins of
32:06the word confidence, it comes from the
32:07words in Latin con and fidere,
32:11meaning with trust.
32:14And so really what we need before we
32:16take action is not that feeling that
32:18we're waiting for.
32:20It's self-trust.
32:22Trusting that you can handle whatever
32:24comes your way. Whether you succeed,
32:26whether you fail, whether you bounce
32:27back, whether you bounce whatever it is,
32:29you will be okay.
32:31And in order to do that, we call that
32:34the state of big trust, which is
32:36recognizing these four attributes,
32:39reminding yourself that you can
32:40strengthen them, working on
32:41strengthening them, and also knowing
32:43which one can you lean on when you might
32:45be weaker in the others.
32:47So, that's And why this ties into agency
32:49is agency is such a big part of this
32:51because if you do not believe that you
32:52can do the thing,
32:54if you don't believe that you have the
32:55skills or the ability to learn or
32:57capacity to adapt,
32:58you will not take that step. And so, you
33:00will perpetually wait to feel ready.
33:03And then you're waiting, and you will
33:04often occupy yourself or distract
33:06yourself with preparation and planning
33:08and all the things that we do that we
33:10think we're being productive by doing,
33:12but they're just distracting us. It's
33:14procrastinating, essentially.
33:17Yeah, we just need to take the action.
33:19So, agency is recognizing, "Hey, I can
33:21do this. I have been here before." As
33:23in, "I've been in unfamiliar situations,
33:26and I was fine. How can I draw on that?
33:28I have
33:30handled challenges before. How can I
33:32bring those attributes?" So, Jay, now I
33:35think we should go into the third
33:36pillar. Are we ready to dive through
33:38this?
33:38>> Yes.
33:38>> So, the third pillar is what we call
33:41Actually, before I tell you the third
33:42pillar, I'm going to share Bruno's story
33:44with you.
33:45So, Bruno was an entrepreneur who
33:46reached out for help.
33:48He was running a business. It was doing
33:51really well.
33:53And yet, he was one of these people who
33:55would always find a problem in every
33:57solution.
33:59He would always focus on what was wrong,
34:01and it was always everyone else's fault.
34:03So, the very first time that we met, he
34:05walked in, he was rushing, he was
34:07complaining about the weather and the
34:09traffic and the fact that it was so hot
34:10in the room, and he spoke for about 5
34:13minutes ranting. We hadn't even shook
34:15hands or sat down.
34:18He was stuck in this litany of
34:19grievances. Finally, we sat down, we
34:22started speaking, and what I discovered
34:23is that Bruno has a number of common
34:25patterns. He was an endless complainer,
34:28chronic complaining
34:30about everything.
34:31Not only that, he was very resentful to
34:33other people. He felt like everyone else
34:34had an easier life than he did. Other
34:36people's business success was easier. He
34:38felt like he was constantly having to
34:40work harder.
34:41The third pattern was blame. He was
34:44constantly blaming
34:46other people for issues that he was
34:49responsible for. He was never willing to
34:51take ownership. And the fourth pattern
34:53is he would keep reliving past hurts.
34:57So, past times that he had been hurt by
34:59somebody, someone had double-crossed
35:00him, someone had treated him poorly, he
35:02kept sharing that story. Now, initially
35:04when you're having a conversation with
35:06someone,
35:07you listen to these stories. Of course,
35:08you have empathy. By the 10th time
35:10they're telling you this story within a
35:12few months, you realize they're stuck in
35:14a cycle that is keeping them stuck.
35:17When it comes to complaining, and I'll
35:18share with the attributes in a moment,
35:19but when it comes to complaining, we
35:21don't realize this is a sign of a lack
35:23of self-trust. Because we lack the trust
35:27that we have the ability to do something
35:29about the situation.
35:30So, what do we do? Focus on what we
35:32cannot control and magnify it and
35:35complain about it. Because it's easier
35:37to complain than to take ownership and
35:39do something.
35:40When we keep reliving past hurts, things
35:43that have happened to us in the past,
35:44we're telling what's called a
35:45contamination story.
35:47Jay, you mentioned earlier how
35:50every single person has lived through
35:51hardship.
35:53Every single person.
35:55And depending on the story that they
35:56tell themselves about that hardship, it
35:59determines how they feel about that
36:00hardship, whether they internalize that
36:02hardship and make it mean something
36:04about them, and then whether they feel
36:07empowered in their lives or the victims.
36:10And I'll come back to that story in a
36:11moment or the the example of the
36:14hardships cuz I do have a really great
36:15case study for that. But coming back to
36:17Bruno,
36:18what we discovered is that he had a very
36:20low level of what we call autonomy.
36:23He felt like he didn't have the freedom
36:25to make choices. He felt like he didn't
36:27have the ability to influence
36:30his outcomes.
36:31And that's why he fixated on everything
36:33outside of his control.
36:34This relates to what's called a locus of
36:36control.
36:37>> Mhm.
36:38>> So Jay, you have a locus, I have a
36:39locus, everyone listening will have a
36:41locus of control, which comes from the
36:43Latin word location, which means where
36:46do you place the control in your life?
36:48Do you believe that you can control
36:50things? And I'm not talking about
36:51control everything because we know a lot
36:53of life is uncontrollable.
36:55>> Yeah.
36:55>> But do you believe that you have some
36:56degree of influence or that life is
36:58happening to you because of external
37:00forces or other people or society or the
37:03government?
37:04If you have an external focus, external
37:06locus,
37:07you will focus on things outside of your
37:09control. What other people think, what
37:11other people do, what other people say,
37:13what the government is doing,
37:15what the media is doing, what your
37:17neighbor is doing, what your brother is
37:18doing,
37:19the future, the past, things that you
37:20cannot control. And then how do you feel
37:23when you're focusing on those things?
37:25You feel powerless. Why? Because you are
37:28powerless.
37:29>> Mhm.
37:30>> When you have an internal locus, you
37:31acknowledge that you can influence the
37:33outcome. You can shape your path. Again,
37:35not everything is controllable, but you
37:37focus on what you do have control over,
37:39your thoughts, your feelings, your
37:42interpretations, your actions.
37:44>> Mhm.
37:44>> That is it. And when you focus on those
37:46things, guess what? You remarkably feel
37:48more powerful.
37:50Because you're focusing on things you
37:51can do.
37:52>> Mhm.
37:52>> We also know when people get stuck so
37:54where Bruno was,
37:56when he was in that external locus, we
37:58see a lot of
38:00activity in the emotion centers of the
38:01brain. Very little activity in the
38:03prefrontal regions, which is what we
38:05need for rationality and solutions and
38:08logical thinking.
38:10So if you ever find yourself feeling
38:13like you're complaining, feeling like a
38:14victim,
38:16and I'm not talking about real victims,
38:18I'm talking about those who victimize
38:19themselves. If anyone listening ever
38:21feels that and the reality is it can
38:23happen, especially when unfair things
38:25happen in your life,
38:28you need to tell yourself, "Okay,
38:30instead of why me,
38:32what now?"
38:33>> Mhm.
38:33>> "What now?
38:34It's happened. I can't do anything about
38:36it. I'm not going to dwell on it. What
38:37am I going to do about it?" And we have
38:39this great little exercise we love to
38:41share with people. It's called the I
38:43could and the I will list.
38:45So, when people get to this state, if we
38:47encourage them to think about what you
38:48will do next,
38:50often what happens is that they start to
38:52think about all the things that they
38:53should have done or that they should do,
38:57and the language of should is very
38:58disempowering.
39:00It does one of two things. It either
39:01makes us feel like we're falling short,
39:03or that we're being compelled against
39:05our will.
39:06And we don't like being told what to do.
39:08It's called reactance. And when we hear
39:10a should, often it's like a part of us
39:12is telling us what to do, and we don't
39:13like it. We resist it. So, we avoid the
39:15word should, and we move to could.
39:17Research has found that when you use the
39:19word could instead of should, it opens
39:22up divergent thinking.
39:23>> That's it's remarkable, isn't
39:24>> It's remark- it's a word. Sometimes when
39:26I look at some of this research, I
39:27think, "How is something this simple so
39:30incredibly powerful?" And it's because
39:32words create worlds inside us and
39:35outside of us.
39:36So, you shift to could, you grab a piece
39:38of paper, and you split it into two two
39:40columns. On the left, you write your I
39:42could list. What are all the things that
39:44you could do in the current
39:46circumstances, whether you've just been
39:48laid off from your job, whether your
39:50business failed, whether your
39:51relationship has broken down.
39:53What are all the things you could do
39:54right now?
39:55That allows you to feel a sense of okay,
39:57there are opportunities, there are
39:59possibilities here. You're also
40:01directing your attention, which reduces
40:03that emotion activation, re-engages your
40:05prefrontal regions. Next step, what will
40:08you do?
40:09Circle three things from your could do
40:11list, and write them in your will do
40:12list, and you write I will bang, bang,
40:15bang, and then you take action.
40:17You're hijacking
40:20that ruminative part of your brain and
40:22gearing yourself towards action,
40:23reminding yourself that no matter how
40:24bad things are, you always have a
40:26choice. And you're choosing to take a
40:28step forward.
40:29>> Yeah. What's the fourth one?
40:30>> The fourth one is what we call
40:32adaptability. And it specifically
40:34relates in the context of doubt and big
40:36trust, it relates to your ability to
40:38adapt to your emotions.
40:40We cannot necessarily control emotions,
40:42we can guide them, we can harness them,
40:44but they will often come in response to
40:46a stimulus.
40:47>> Yeah.
40:48>> So, how do you adapt to it?
40:49>> So, for that, what I want to do is I
40:50want to give you a series of scenarios
40:53where I think you are having emotions
40:55>> Okay.
40:56>> to help you answer it. Sound good?
40:57>> Yeah.
40:58>> Okay, great. All right, cuz I think this
41:00is what I was saving these for because I
41:01feel they'll
41:02they're they're moments in time that all
41:05of us experience where there's an
41:07emotional reaction
41:09and we need to know how to adapt.
41:11>> Yes, brilliant.
41:11>> So,
41:12you're about to speak up in a meeting
41:14and your brain floods with what if I
41:17mess up.
41:18>> So, we call this the three-second spiral
41:20stop.
41:20So, when this happens, you want to
41:22acknowledge So, firstly, take a breath.
41:24Take a moment, take a breath, 3 seconds,
41:26breathe in.
41:28Second step is to acknowledge that your
41:29brain is just doing what it's meant to
41:32do.
41:33It's just wired to magnify everything
41:34that could go wrong.
41:36But it's okay, there's no physical
41:38danger here. So, you need to remind
41:39yourself
41:40nothing terrible is going to happen.
41:43The fourth Are we up to the third step?
41:44I think we're up to the third step. The
41:46third step is to keep your whatever
41:48you're going to say,
41:50keep it as short as possible. And the
41:51reason why I say this is because your
41:52brain is magnifying what could go wrong
41:54because you probably haven't done this
41:55many times. It doesn't really have the
41:57proof points that you can do this and do
41:59it well. And if you try and go out there
42:01and the first thing you want to say is a
42:035-minute monologue about you're going to
42:05fluster and lose in
42:06and then you're going to have a negative
42:07evidence point. So, keep it really
42:09short. You might validate what someone
42:11else has said. That's a great idea, Jay.
42:13Or I'd like to build on what Simon said.
42:14Or Maria, can you repeat that one more
42:16time? I want to make sure my notes have
42:17it correctly. Really low stakes, easy,
42:20you're just allowing that energy to come
42:22out.
42:22>> Mhm.
42:23>> Once you've done that and you've got the
42:25proof point, the next step is, okay, now
42:27I'm going to really share what I wanted
42:28to share, ask that longer question,
42:30share my perspective. I know I can do it
42:32cuz I just did it before. I'm also going
42:34to breathe again. I'm going to remind
42:35myself there's no physical threat. And
42:37then I'm going to speak. You want to
42:39make sure that you're not speaking fast
42:41because when our emotions are in
42:42overdrive, we get nervous, we speed up
42:45our pace.
42:46>> Mhm.
42:46>> Which then can make people zone out or
42:48it undermines our credibility. So, speak
42:50slowly, have a pause, importantly, make
42:53eye contact.
42:54That's what allows people to stay
42:55engaged. And that's how you can harness
42:58your emotion in that moment.
42:59>> How do you define your current purpose?
43:01>> Someone once asked me, what is the one
43:04word I want people to say about me at my
43:06funeral?
43:07And without thinking, I said,
43:10that she cared.
43:12And then I thought about it a bit more
43:13and I probably would have had all these
43:14other things, but I think the fact that
43:16that came through so clearly for me when
43:18I didn't think about it,
43:20my purpose is to live a life where I'm
43:22caring about other people.
43:23And that looks like me being present for
43:25them, me serving them through the work
43:26that we do, helping them through our
43:28programs, through this book. It's
43:29fundamentally because I care about
43:31people overcoming what is holding them
43:34back. And I care about them living
43:36fulfilling and successful and meaningful
43:38lives.
43:40And so, everything I do is aligned
43:41behind that. What about you, Jay?
43:43>> What's that?
43:44>> What How would you define your purpose
43:46in just a few words?
43:47>> The way I've chosen to describe it right
43:49now is that to make the world happier,
43:51healthier, and more healed.
43:53>> Beautiful.
43:53>> And the word that I really lean to in
43:55all of those is healing. I value healing
43:57more than happiness and health I do
44:00value equally as as healing. But I think
44:02even in our health, we're always
44:04healing. And so, I think the challenge
44:06is my my take is everyone's hurt in some
44:08way physically, mentally, emotionally,
44:10spiritually.
44:11And everyone's healing. And so if we can
44:14help create a more healed world,
44:16a healing world actually, even more than
44:18healed, because healed means it's done.
44:21And so a healing world is a good world.
44:24And so if we can if I can help if I can
44:26be useful in and of service to helping
44:30people heal
44:32in whichever area they're struggling in
44:34through people like yourselves and the
44:35wonderful experts and people who come
44:37and share their stories on the show,
44:38then that to me is the world that I want
44:40to live in. It's a world that is healing
44:42always, because we're always going to
44:44feel pain and always going to get hurt.
44:46So then there has to be an equal focus
44:48on healing.
44:49>> That's beautiful. And I love it that it
44:51almost going back to the idea of the
44:52scar,
44:53>> Yeah.
44:53>> also healing the scars that we have.
44:55>> Yeah, it's healing and it's that's what
44:57you're going to have to do because yeah,
44:58you're healing your self-image according
45:00to
45:01you know, what you were saying earlier.
45:03>> Yeah, beautiful.
45:04>> Uh fifth and final question
45:05>> I kind of don't want you to ask it cuz I
45:06don't want this to end. This is bringing
45:07so much
45:08>> I could literally talk to you for
45:08another three hours.
45:10Uh this is the fifth and final question.
45:13Uh
45:14if you could create one law
45:17and we ask this to every guest who's
45:18ever been on the show. If you could
45:19create one law that everyone in the
45:21world had to follow, what would it be?
45:24>> It would be to leave each person better
45:26than you found them.
45:29>> Yeah, it's a good law.
45:30>> That'd be it.
45:31>> Yeah, each place, each person, each
45:34>> Each animal?
45:35>> Each meeting, each team, each Yeah, it
45:37would be so much better. Yeah, I love
45:39that. That's beautiful. Never had that
45:41on the show. If this clip brought you
45:43value and you'd like to watch something
45:44else, this next video has been chosen
45:47especially for you based on your viewing
45:49behaviors. I hope you enjoy it and if
45:51you do, please subscribe to the channel
45:53so we can keep bringing you fantastic
45:55conversations.

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