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Conceived In Liberty: S4, Episode 3 - Nina Shea — Transcript

by The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation · 3,132 words · 508 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00thank you
0:00[Music]
0:09welcome to this special Bradley prizes
0:12edition of conceived in Liberty a
0:14Bradley speaker series I'm Rick Graber
0:17president of the Bradley Foundation
0:18thanks so much for joining us today our
0:21guest today is Nina Shea Nina is a
0:24senior fellow of the Hudson Institute
0:26where she directs the center for
0:28Religious Freedom which she founded
0:30she's been a human rights lawyer for 40
0:33years working extensively for the
0:35advancement of religious freedom and
0:37appreciation for it in U.S foreign
0:39policy she was appointed seven times by
0:43the United States House of
0:44Representatives to serve on the U.S
0:46Commission on International religious
0:48freedom and has served as a delegate to
0:51the United Nations main human rights
0:53body
0:54Nina is also a 2023 Bradley Prize winner
0:59Nina congratulations and welcome it is
1:02wonderful to have you with us thank you
1:04so much Rick thank you for having me
1:07our pleasure uh Nina you've spent a
1:11whole career defending and advocating
1:13for Religious Freedom let's start with a
1:16very basic question why do you see it as
1:18a fundamental human right
1:20religious freedom first of all is one of
1:23our inalienable rights endowed by our
1:25creator according to the Declaration of
1:28Independence as they as it's articulated
1:30there and it's our first Clause of our
1:33first amendment
1:35um and it's also part of our history our
1:40tradition and our laws so um you know we
1:44tend to take this for granted but really
1:46when you look around the world you see
1:49just how precious and special this ride
1:52is here in the United States
1:55um first of all you know we have uh some
1:58people conflate freedom of religion with
2:00freedom of worship and we have to
2:02understand it's more than just praying
2:04within the four walls of a house of
2:06worship within a church or synagogue or
2:08Temple it's uh it's
2:12um more than just holding beliefs in the
2:14secrecy of your heart even China has the
2:16hat so what we're talking about
2:19um is religious freedom as the right to
2:22educate your children and your faith and
2:25your values moral values
2:27um the right to manifest your beliefs in
2:30the Public Square
2:33um the right to change a religion or
2:35have no religion at all
2:37um the right not to be coerced
2:40um and and many more
2:41factors as well and this is part really
2:44of international covenants on religious
2:48freedom so that's not just the American
2:50understanding but we are unique here
2:52when I
2:55um first began my career during the Cold
2:57War I noticed in the Soviet Empire that
3:02um religions were the first
3:06institutions and people of civil society
3:09that the regime would Target to repress
3:13and they were the last ones standing in
3:17many cases in most cases and that's
3:19because I think religious freedom is
3:23really the innate search for truth in
3:27meaning meaning in lives and that's
3:29Universal and people are willing to uh
3:33die and and suffer for that and I have
3:36been deeply impressed by the religious
3:39leaders around the world I have met who
3:42have shown such faithfulness and carried
3:45out good works under under the most dire
3:48circumstances Nina you reference uh the
3:51founding fathers and our our founding
3:53documents and without question the
3:55founders viewed religious liberty as an
3:58essential right
3:59the First Amendment to the Constitution
4:01clearly spells that out and reads
4:03Congress shall make no law respecting an
4:06establishment of religion or prohibiting
4:08the free exercise thereof
4:10why do you think religious freedom is
4:13such an important element of what we
4:15call American exceptionalism
4:18well you know that wording of the first
4:20amendment is really
4:22um a limitation on Government powers
4:25um that the government cannot by law
4:28restrict religious freedom and this is a
4:33very unique formulation of the right it
4:36means the law doesn't give the right it
4:40guarantees the right of religious
4:42freedom and just to give one example uh
4:45there's most countries in the world
4:47including in the west throughout the
4:49West except for the United States has a
4:52registration process and this allows
4:55them to restrict religious groups or
4:58practices
4:59um or to repress them
5:02um and or to regulate them in some
5:04unfair way to discriminate against them
5:07and
5:08um let me give you a few examples here
5:11Belgium has a registration process in
5:15which government officials can determine
5:17that uh particular religious group does
5:20has no social value and there are many
5:23groups that it just withholds
5:24registration for France has
5:28um a regulation that you uh the banks
5:32religious practice and cross necklaces
5:35certain cross necklaces and uh religious
5:38GARP in the Public Square in public
5:40places it even goes so far as to uh
5:44regulate how much
5:47um is too much for Muslim women bathing
5:49suits on Riviera beaches so
5:53um then you you know India is another
5:55example where
5:58um conversions are
6:01banned if they offer inducements
6:05including spiritual inducements like
6:07inner pre piece if they say that this uh
6:10religion will offer inner peace that's
6:13considered uh an inducement and is
6:16banned of course an under Democratic
6:18countries it's even worse it really that
6:21this kind of Regulation
6:23um Blends into a full-blown repression
6:26and and Saudi Arabia is a perfect
6:28example where only mosques are allowed
6:31no there are no churches there are no
6:33other houses of worship that are
6:35registered um as legal by the government
6:37and even though there's millions of Farm
6:40Workers who are Christian there
6:43um China is another example where the
6:46registered churches are then overseen by
6:49the Chinese Communist party and they
6:51determine the content of sermons who can
6:54lead who can enter a church they exclude
6:56all children or anyone under 18 from
6:59churches now and that's the registered
7:01ones the others um are uh you know
7:04there's full-blown genocide against the
7:06uyghur Muslims now uh the Tibetans are
7:08Buddhists are terribly repressed and
7:11falun gong which is considered and
7:13categorized as an evil cult under
7:16Chinese law
7:17um is been targeted for total
7:21eradication and uh has suffered
7:23immensely I lived in Brussels for a
7:26period of time and he just wouldn't
7:28think of Belgium as as being a place
7:30where where that goes on but indeed it
7:32does
7:33Nina you've shut a great deal of light
7:35on the fact that religious freedom and
7:37Free Speech are under attack around the
7:39world and and that includes here at home
7:41uh what trends do you see around the
7:44world that could threaten how we view
7:46religious freedom here in the United
7:47States
7:49well uh Rick freedom is threatened here
7:52in the United States and um just a
7:54couple of weeks ago we heard about an
7:56FBI memo coming out of the Richmond
7:59office in which the analysts determined
8:03that um Catholic groups who preferred
8:05the Latin Mass were suspicious as
8:09hotbeds of terrorism and and he
8:12recommended that they should be
8:13monitored and
8:15um uh infiltrated so uh you know this is
8:21purely based on traditional preferences
8:25um and made no sense and this is
8:29something that we found out about
8:31because the document the memo was leaked
8:34and there was an uproar a public uproar
8:37and it was then retracted thankfully
8:39there was this uproar but this is the
8:41kind of stuff that goes on in China in
8:43fact China is suspicious of all religion
8:46and it's particularly suspicious of the
8:48Tibetan and uighur Muslim religions and
8:52has um not only high-tech surveillance
8:55all over the place but has households in
8:58those regions spying on other households
9:01and if they see religious
9:05um practice that is two looks too devout
9:08they have to report to that to the
9:09police and that then you're liable for
9:12arrest and being taken off to a
9:14detention center for re-education this
9:16Ramadan they have banned Muslims from
9:19fasting so you could be reported to
9:21police if your neighbors spies you
9:23skipping a few meals
9:25uh so uh there's it's dangerous when our
9:31officials do not understand or care
9:34about religious freedom I I think of a
9:37senator uh who
9:40um disapproved of the traditional
9:42beliefs of a federal judge then federal
9:44judge Amy Coney Barrett and said to her
9:47the Dogma
9:49lives loudly within you and
9:53um this despite the
9:57um constitutional article that bans
9:59religious tests for religious office
10:03um
10:04anti-Semitism is another Trend that has
10:06me very worried we saw the unprecedented
10:09attacks against
10:11um several synagogues some of the
10:13congregation were murdered in those
10:14attacks
10:16um in those cases the perpetrators have
10:19been apprehended and are charged
10:22um but this is um uh there is also
10:26anti-Semitism uh rearing up in Brooklyn
10:29New York uh against Orthodox Jews who
10:32walk through their neighborhoods in
10:34religious Garb and then are attacked
10:37um for their faith and this occurs with
10:41impunity that means there's no arrest in
10:43most of the cases and um no no uh
10:47charges there's no accountability for
10:49this and that reminds me of the you know
10:51the something like the pilgrims out of
10:53the Old Country
10:54um we've also seen massive attacks
10:57against 80 pro-life
11:01um centers in this country
11:04um scores of churches since May 2022
11:07when the Roe v Wade decision of the
11:10Supreme Court was leaked
11:12um that the decision on road v Wade was
11:16late
11:16um and again most of those cases
11:18occurred with impunity
11:21um when there was a press conference
11:23with the attorney general he was asked
11:25you know why was there no prosecution to
11:28arrest and he he said something
11:29absolutely ludicrous
11:31um which was that because these assaults
11:34these arson attacks against the
11:36pregnancy centers
11:38um were occurring at night
11:41um so this is um
11:43really reminds me of um you know of
11:47something that's that Boko Haram would
11:49be doing that would be happening in
11:51Northern Nigeria under the terror group
11:53Boko Haram where over ten thousand
11:57churches have been attacked
11:59um mostly with impunity almost entirely
12:02with impunity and
12:04um you know you don't hear about it much
12:06because of their hate speech laws and
12:08blasphemy laws that restrict reporting
12:10but um you know this is a sign of denial
12:14of religious freedom undermining of uh
12:18rule of law and uh frankly of a failing
12:21State fortunately of course we're we're
12:24not Nigeria we do have our Free Speech
12:27we do have our court system in which we
12:30can defend this right
12:32uh Nina you mentioned hate speech laws
12:35how do they impact religious freedom
12:38well hate speech laws are found uh Rick
12:41in most of the world
12:43um including in Europe and the west but
12:45not in the United States and what they
12:47do is punish
12:50um offense perceived offenses against
12:52certain groups and in Europe they
12:56started in
12:58um full force after uh the Iran's
13:01Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fat wad
13:04saying that that people should kill
13:08anyone associated with a novel that they
13:11found blasphemous that the itolus found
13:14blasphemous
13:16um and this is this should happen
13:18anywhere in the world including Europe
13:19so Europe responded to this by adopting
13:22hate speech laws
13:25and
13:26um these are meant as a substitute
13:28basically for the blasphemy laws of Iran
13:30and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan a milder
13:33punishments of course
13:35um but they've now been expanded to a
13:38range of other groups and to protect
13:41them from offense of speech and there
13:44needs to be no other crime associated
13:46with it
13:48um right now in Finland a prominent
13:51politician who was a former cabinet
13:53minister is on trial for sharing a
13:57screenshot of the Old Testament
13:59so literally in this case you have
14:02Christian beliefs on trial
14:04and in the UK and we think of the UK as
14:07a Bastion for free speech
14:10um I'm afraid it's not so anymore
14:12there's a young woman on trial at this
14:15moment for
14:17um praying silently
14:20um on a sidewalk
14:22um outside an abortion facility and she
14:25was either in the buffer zone or right
14:28outside of the buffer zone the
14:29censorship buffer zone for these
14:31abortion facilities but these facilities
14:33could be
14:34um ten blocks long and she was only
14:37praying she didn't have any signage she
14:39wasn't saying anything this was a silent
14:41prayer inside her head so I think that
14:43these are um
14:45really troubling uh very troubling uh
14:48incursions on religious freedom here
14:51um we're seeing uh religion traditional
14:54beliefs pro-life beliefs traditional
14:56religious beliefs on marriage or gender
14:59identity
15:01um being called hate speech
15:03um it shouldn't be considered
15:05islamophobia when you defend
15:08um the Ahmadi Muslims for example in in
15:11Pakistan against horrific persecution
15:14but that also is included in in hate
15:18speech in some Quarters here and so you
15:21have
15:22um uh Elite universities law schools
15:25which is very frightening
15:27um these are the future judges and a big
15:30Tech which functions at the public as a
15:32Public Square
15:34um canceling
15:36um those
15:38uh tagged with these labels and speech
15:41tagged with that label of hate speech so
15:44um I I really am concerned that we are
15:47trending towards this European model
15:51let's turn to the the difficult topic of
15:54China uh Nina you've been an outspoken
15:56critic of the Chinese Communist party
15:59and in particular it's a repression of
16:01the church you've also been very vocal
16:04about the plight of cardinal Zen from
16:06Hong Kong Cardinal has been punished by
16:09the Chinese Communist party for calling
16:11attention to the abuses of the CCP
16:14another high-profile dissident case that
16:17you've had a lot to to say and talk
16:19about has been that of Jimmy Lai who's
16:21been imprisoned for a pro-democracy
16:23newspaper in Hong Kong
16:26you've also added your voice to others
16:28like Chen Guan Cheng who won a Bradley
16:30Prize last year Guang Ching has called
16:33attention to the case of Gallagher Shang
16:35who is imprisoned by the CCP for human
16:38rights work and hasn't been seen since
16:412017.
16:43tough question but what should America's
16:46position be to China
16:48moving forward particularly in light of
16:51its unquestioned human rights abuses
16:53it's increasingly wider role on the
16:56global stage and maybe most importantly
16:58it's Global Ambitions under the
17:01leadership of Xi Jinping
17:03yeah I take um really a page I think we
17:06should take a page from the Soviet Union
17:09and the in the Cold War and what
17:11happened then Nathan sharansky a Jewish
17:14refusing in the gulag heard about the
17:17evil empire speech of President Reagan
17:20and he was so elated that the leader of
17:23the Free World would speak out on and
17:26make moral judgment against his
17:28oppressor that he actually tapped on the
17:30pipes of his cell in Morse code to tell
17:34the prisoners and the punishment cells
17:35about it and I think there's a great
17:37lesson in that for us we have to start
17:40reaching out building a relationship of
17:42trust with the Chinese people we don't
17:45have that right now all they hear is
17:48what their government wants them to hear
17:49and it poisons uh through its propaganda
17:52and censorship
17:55um what the United States is all about
17:57and what it thinks about them and about
18:00freedom and so I think that we really
18:03need to be
18:04um uh speaking about our President
18:07should use his bully puppet not other
18:10political leaders as well in the west
18:13and in our country should be speaking
18:15out on behalf of these dissidents these
18:19political prisoners that you mentioned
18:22um you know I could mention many more
18:24I'll mention one and that's Bishop
18:26Julius Gia who is in prison or is in a
18:31black jail which is a secret detention
18:33for running an orphanage for disabled
18:36children without government permission
18:38he had been doing it for 30 years but he
18:41was taken away and has no due process
18:44whatsoever people don't his uh Parish
18:47doesn't even know where he is we should
18:49be really ramping up our public
18:51diplomacy
18:53um with uh meeting with families for
18:56example and in our broadcasting and we
18:59should be scaling up
19:02um the technology to bring break through
19:04the Great Wall of censorship of China
19:06and we we have technology but it's not
19:10reaching everyone inside
19:13um and again I you know I think of um
19:16you know we should be telling the truth
19:17not propaganda but telling the truth and
19:19and um and and and showing American
19:23values
19:24um telling them the truth about what's
19:26happening inside their own country with
19:28a genocide uh of forced sterilization
19:31and forced abortions against the uyghur
19:33Muslim people
19:35um and and the rest of the repression
19:37and I think of um Lech wallensa when he
19:41was president of Poland he came to the
19:43United States and at a press conference
19:45was asked
19:47um did anyone in in the Soviet Union
19:50listen to in the Soviet Empire listen to
19:54um radio for Europe
19:57um radio Liberty and his answer was
20:00absolutely powerful uh he said uh can
20:03there be life without the Sun
20:06so I think that these historical
20:08examples that work to you know really
20:12help bring down the Berlin Wall along
20:14with peace through strength course
20:17um without firing a shot should be
20:20replicated robustly on China
20:23couldn't agree more we're in difficult
20:25uh periods of time around the world and
20:29it's definitely going to take leadership
20:31and American leadership to be able to
20:34navigate these very difficult Waters
20:36I agree and I think that it it really
20:40um uh will hurt the legitimacy of the
20:43Chinese government when this is exposed
20:45among their own people because they
20:47don't know what's happening in their own
20:48country the government doesn't want them
20:50to know Nina last question what does it
20:53mean to you to win a Bradley prize Well
20:55Rick I am deeply honored and I am
20:59happily surprised
21:01um I never expected it
21:03um such a prestigious award and I'm
21:06really you know enormously encouraged
21:09because Bradley is shining the spotlight
21:13on our Precious first amendment freedoms
21:16in this prize and I think Americans as a
21:21result will have a deeper knowledge and
21:25awareness of what religious freedom is
21:27and how unique it is here in this
21:30country and how they have to work to
21:32preserve it and I really think that they
21:35will be inspired by the stories that
21:37some of the religious Heroes and these
21:39situations around the world so
21:42um I really couldn't be more grateful
21:44thank you so very much well thank you
21:46and we look forward to the Celebration
21:49in a shape thank you so much for being a
21:52leading voice if not the leading voice
21:54on this very important topic of
21:56religious freedom here and around the
21:59world and of course thanks to all of you
22:01for joining us on this episode of
22:04conceived in Liberty
22:06[Music]

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