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Complete Police Interrogation of Jennifer Pan - Part 2 — Transcript

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0:01okay Jennifer I'm going to explain this
0:03sworn video statement form um and as
0:06I've we're now being
0:07recorded this is not new to you we've
0:09done this once before okay I want to
0:13take before we get this try and take
0:16that first interview that we had which
0:18was you know hours after what what had
0:20transpired put it aside it's almost like
0:23we've never spoken before okay so we're
0:26starting aesh we're starting from new
0:28that way you're not going to say I think
0:29I told him that don't worry about what
0:31you've already told
0:32me
0:34so this is a statement of Jennifer Pan
0:36and the incident number is uh for the
0:39murder investigation is uh
0:4231088 of 2010 Jennifer do you ever do
0:45you understand that everything that's
0:47being said in this room is being
0:48videotaped
0:51yes okay my name is uh Randy slate and
0:54I'm a detective with the York Regional
0:55Police my badge number is 531 there's no
0:58one else present in the room other than
1:00you and I and monitoring this statement
1:02next to us is Deborah
1:08glading uh today is Thursday November
1:11the 11th
1:132010 the time on want my watch is
1:189:43 in the morning we are presently
1:20videotaping at 5 District in the town of
1:23Markham in the regional pality of York
1:26um is there anything we're back to this
1:29question again about about is there
1:30anything else uh I need to know in order
1:32to better understand your statement and
1:33that is do you suffer from any mental
1:35illness have you been drinking did you
1:36take any drugs no drugs no drinking so
1:40there's nothing that's going to
1:41influence your
1:47statement I'm just a little
1:51nervous don't be nervous okay I I know
1:55that's tough to say but don't be nervous
1:57the truth is always
2:00the best way to relieve anxiety
2:03okay we are investigating an Alle
2:06allegation of
2:08the
2:13murder of your mom bitcha pan as a part
2:18of our investigation of the off if
2:20offense I would like to interview on
2:22videotape and under oath solemn
2:24affirmation or solemn declaration it is
2:27my obligation to advise you of certain
2:29information before we commence this
2:32statement just want
2:36to redundant remember me telling you
2:39about
2:43that so just to reiterate uh we're in
2:45the middle or starting the uh middle
2:47portion of the video KGB I've just
2:49turned on my digital audio recorder just
2:51just in case for fail safe measures um
2:54it's now 9:45 we began the video
2:56statement portion at
2:589:43 and I'm just at the portion of the
3:00video statement
3:02form um Jennifer can you spell your name
3:04for me j e n n i f e r and last name p a
3:10n okay so it's my obligation to advise
3:13you of certain information before we
3:14commence this statement you may be a
3:17witness in court concerning the events
3:18you're about to describe in your
3:20statement if at any time you change your
3:21statement or claim not to remember the
3:23events the contents of this video
3:25statement you give now may be used as
3:27evidence in court do you understand yes
3:32and for the audio recording just the
3:34dated it's the 11th of November and I
3:36already said
3:379:45
3:40um these are the criminal code sanctions
3:43remember I told you the explaining of
3:45the of the facts of uh that there's
3:47certain penalties for not telling the
3:49truth or misleading the police it's also
3:52my obligation to advise you that
3:54fabricating evidence with the intent to
3:56mislead is an offense under section 137
3:58of the criminal code and if you give a
4:00false statement under oath you may be
4:02charged with fabricating evidence if
4:04convicted of fabricating evidence you
4:06could be sentenced up to 14 years in
4:07jail it is also an offense under section
4:10139 of the criminal code to obstruct by
4:12willfully attempting to obstruct pervert
4:14or defeat the course of justice and you
4:16may be charged if you obstruct Justice
4:19if convicted of obstructing justice you
4:20could be sentenced up to 10 years in
4:22jail it is also an offense under section
4:25140 of the criminal code to commit
4:27public Mischief by causing a police
4:29officer to start or continue an
4:31investigation by making a false
4:32statement that accuses some other person
4:34of committing an offense and you may be
4:36charged if you commit public Mischief if
4:39convicted of public Mischief you could
4:40be sentenced up to 5 years in jail if
4:43you were charged with one or more of the
4:44above offenses this statement may be
4:46used as evidence against you do you
4:49understand the criminal sanctions I've
4:50explained to you
4:52yes do you understand the criminal
4:54consequences of making a false statement
4:58yes do you understand that it's your
5:00choice to whether or not you want to
5:01give a statement
5:03yes do you understand the importance of
5:06telling truth in regards to this
5:09investigation if you've spoken to a
5:11police officer any person in Authority
5:13in connection with his investigation I
5:15want it to clearly understood I don't
5:16want it to influence you in making a
5:18statement do you understand that yes you
5:21have any
5:22questions
5:24no are you prepared to give a video
5:27statement under oath or Solomon sorry
5:30affirmation or Declaration at this time
5:33yes okay I'm just going to bring the
5:34commissioner in and then we can get on
5:37with
5:42[Music]
5:45it hello I'm Sonia fi I'm a commissioner
5:50and I'm just going to swear you in for
5:51your statement okay will you be swearing
5:53on the Bible or were you
5:56okay just place your right hand there
5:58please
6:03and your first name is Jennifer yes last
6:05name of pan yes okay do you Jennifer
6:09Penn swear declare that the evidence
6:11that you give in this investigation
6:13shall be the truth the whole truth and
6:15nothing but the truth so help you God
6:16yes
6:30okay thank
6:31you thank you
6:40s okay
6:44so what we're going to do now is as I
6:47said what what education level do you
6:49have just a high school high school have
6:52you gone to any other curric like after
6:55a higher level of Education have you
6:57been working towards anything uh I'm
6:59going back to school and I have been
7:00working on a piano education okay
7:02there's no other education that you've
7:04sought like you haven't gone to
7:05University at this point in
7:07time okay so um I
7:12want I want
7:14you to
7:16forget or put aside the first statement
7:19that we had talked about okay this is
7:23going to be where I'm going to ask you
7:25to start from the day okay on the 8
7:30leading up until when you when the
7:33police become involved in an incident
7:35that takes place in your house I want
7:36you to tell me about your day what you
7:38do your interaction with your parents
7:41okay so we're at what we are is we're
7:43dealing with the incident we're not
7:44dealing with your history right now
7:46we're dealing with the incident again to
7:47see if anything else comes forgetting
7:50what you've already told me and bring
7:53yourself through that day and through
7:55the event and we'll see if what we're
7:57going to see if we've learned or if
7:59you've remembered anything else and
8:01there's some questions with respect to
8:03that uh statement that I'm going to ask
8:05you about okay but I'm going to let you
8:07start again and and let's let's move
8:09forward from any time in that day where
8:11you want to start if it's the time you
8:12woke up or if it's the time that your
8:14first interaction it's your choice okay
8:17I'm
8:18just I'm very nervous and I why are you
8:22let's why are you why are you nervous
8:23tell me about why you're nervous because
8:26I don't want to say the wrong things oh
8:29so
8:30that day was a lot you're right and I've
8:35been scattered and so bits and pieces
8:38are here and some pieces aren't here
8:42and I'm just so I want you to sit back
8:46in your chair okay just sit back in your
8:48chair take a deep breath okay close your
8:52eyes just follow my line just sit back
8:54in the chair for a second sit back relax
8:57is the best you can
9:00close your
9:02eyes and just breathe for a minute
9:14okay we're not in any type of danger
9:17we're nowhere we're in a very safe place
9:22okay and we're going to work through
9:24this and don't worry about what you
9:26forget or what you mix up or whatever
9:28you're doing
9:30is you start and push the play button
9:33for that
9:34day and if you stick to everything that
9:38you remember happening that day it will
9:40come out in
9:42sequence okay and I'm going to show you
9:44a technique after we go through this
9:46that will that will show it to you okay
9:49so let's just start you've taken a deep
9:51breath you've relaxed you're in a good
9:53position right there let's start from
9:55the beginning of the day when you wake
9:57up and let's start moving forward from
9:59there
10:01what I can remember is when I woke up I
10:06had some
10:07breakfast and I went upstairs to do some
10:11piano history and I was on the computer
10:13what time is that
10:19around I'm not 100% sure time isn't like
10:23is it you know time is important meaning
10:25is it is it in the beginning of the is
10:27it morning is the light out is in the
10:29afternoon like
10:31probably maybe before noon before noon
10:34sometime before noon yes okay before
10:37noon
10:39um I play some Facebook games so I was
10:42doing that and then I stopped and then I
10:46was doing some studying for my piano
10:49like I said I was working towards a
10:50piano degree in
10:52teaching so I was uh reading some
10:55history notes and going over some
10:57practice examination papers
11:02who's in the house at that time my
11:04father has left for work and my mother's
11:06home okay where's your mom do you know
11:08where she
11:14is don't remember at this point okay I
11:18for I'm getting the last few days all
11:22mixed up together uh I believe she had
11:26left with my aunt to go and visit my
11:29grandfather that morning or early
11:32afternoon um he is
11:36residing sorry he reside resided at a
11:41manung nursing home and he had just
11:43gotten back from the
11:45hospital
11:47Saturday so she went in I don't remember
11:51if she took my aunt but she went in to
11:53uh see if she could uh see how the nurse
11:57the nurse got any updates on him and see
11:59see if she could feed him um when she
12:03had left she had called me and she asked
12:07me to come out because there were some
12:09police officers on the street and I went
12:12out and uh I asked the police officers
12:15came up and they said that there was a
12:17gas leak on our street and to exit our
12:22exit our house so I said uh if it would
12:25be possible could I go in and grab a
12:26jacket cuz I was still in just regular
12:30clothes so I went in and when I came out
12:33my mother said that they wouldn't let
12:34her take out the car either so we were
12:36gonna we decided to we were going to
12:38walk across the street to a relative's
12:40house
12:42there and before we could get to our
12:44relative's house uh the officers got a
12:47message or a memo from an from their
12:49fellow officers saying that our side was
12:52Secure and that it might be from another
12:54area so from there I went back into the
12:57house do you remember what time that was
13:00again it was before noon before noon
13:02okay um I'm I'm pretty sure it was
13:06before noon so before noon and now your
13:07mom's come back from no not yet she
13:10she's on she was leaving to go out okay
13:13so she left to go pick up my aunt and go
13:17in to my grandfather's and I went back
13:19up to on the computer to do a little
13:22studying taking a break and playing some
13:27games um
13:31that do you remember speaking to anyone
13:33during the day on your on your phone or
13:35on the on Facebook
13:39um later on in the day yes I spoke to a
13:42longtime friend Andrew who I went to
13:44elementary school with um but just the
13:49usual he he just asked if we could uh
13:52hang out anytime soon but I explained to
13:54him that I wasn't able to leave the
13:56house and I couldn't meet up with him so
13:59I asked him how his life was how his
14:01girlfriend how his job was
14:04going um I believe that was later on in
14:06the day though that wasn't in the
14:08afternoon we'll go in later in the and
14:10when we talk about your past about why
14:12you couldn't leave the house okay so
14:14that isn't that hasn't gone unnoticed
14:16but we're not going to talk about that
14:17right now we're talking about that day
14:19okay so continue on um I think my mom
14:24came home at
14:25about 3 or so I'm not sure where she
14:30went with my aunt she uh came home and
14:33unpacked and started preparing
14:37dinner um my father came
14:44home my father came home about
14:48420 4:30 it was later than he usually
14:52does he normally comes home about 10 to
14:544: um when my mother asked him where he
14:58had been he had said he had had
14:59forgotten to lock his toolbox at work
15:02or something about along the lines of he
15:06had to go back to work cuz he had
15:07forgotten to uh close something or lock
15:10something up where does your dad work um
15:14coob and St um it's Middlefield
15:19and south of fch okay continue so he
15:23comes he's home now late at 4:20 4:30
15:264:30 and he phoned and asked my uncle
15:30Nam if he wanted to go to go buy some
15:34like heat covers and a USB
15:37pen so he immediately left not shortly
15:41after that maybe 4:30 a little bit after
15:44that and on Monday nights my mother goes
15:47dancing so she had finished dinner and
15:51me and her ate dinner first what time
15:54did you guys have dinner
15:56around 5 5:30 mhm and then she had then
16:01my father came home and he had dinner
16:03and what time did your dad get
16:08home
16:11I I'd say sometime between 6:00 and 6:30
16:14because my mother was able to clean up
16:17before going out to dancing when your
16:20dad comes home do you remember seeing
16:21what type of bags he was carrying when
16:22he came in I I wasn't downstairs when he
16:25came through the door I had gone
16:27upstairs already okay so you don't know
16:30where he went shopping at um all I know
16:32is that when I came down to greet him
16:34after he came home he had shown me this
16:37uh heating cover that he had bought for
16:40the house didn't have a label on it
16:42didn't you didn't see he took it out of
16:43the bag or I he did he just showed me
16:46the the cover itself he didn't did you
16:49see the USB stick I believe the USB
16:52stick was for my uncle if they bought it
16:54or not I don't know I'm not sure okay so
16:57it's now 6 to 6 :30 cuz your dad's now
17:00home and eating and your mom said you
17:01say your mom cleans up yeah and then she
17:03leaves at 7:00 and my father goes up to
17:06his computer like he normally does yes
17:09and he's on the computer watch like news
17:11I'm not sure what he's doing I'm in my
17:14room W I believe at this point I had
17:17called my
17:18friend hang on let's make sure I got to
17:21make sure that the the tape recorders
17:22didn't just click off okay cuz we had a
17:24bit of a power flicker so just give me a
17:27second
17:34okay so we're still we're
17:39still okay so we're at uh we're at 7:00
17:43right and your mom's getting ready to go
17:46so continue
17:49on so she leaves and I my friend Adrian
17:54had asked if we would do our movie night
17:56like we normally do he comes over
17:59with uh TV shows uh some of our
18:02favorites to watch um
18:06together so he had come over I'm sorry I
18:09this the timeline's a little off uh he
18:12had come over around I think I told him
18:15I messaged him around 6:00 he came over
18:18about 6:20 6:30 what and when you say
18:21message him was it Facebook or was it
18:23your phone text message and what was the
18:25phone which phone is it that you use
18:26which phone number uh my Rogers Phone
18:30your Rogers phone and 647 uh 965 2118
18:36okay so that's the message and is that
18:38the First Communication you had with him
18:40that day I think I had messaged him at
18:423:00 no he had messaged me around in the
18:45afternoon sometime asking me if it was
18:47TV was on tonight okay and then I had
18:49messaged him I'm done you can come over
18:52whenever I think that was the just the
18:54message I so what time does he arrive
18:57again he arrived around
18:59between 6:00 and 6:30 so your mom and
19:02dad are both home my parents are home
19:03and he came in he greets them as usual
19:05they they asked him how everything was
19:09going and then my mom had left for uh
19:12dancing and we were downstairs watching
19:18um that day we watched Gossip Girl and
19:21How I Met Your Mother um is this are
19:24these live TV shows or these recordings
19:26uh he he brings them on on a USB pen
19:30okay when your Mom leaves what is she
19:33wearing I didn't pay attention do you
19:35remember what she was wearing when you
19:36were having dinner she was wearing her
19:38pajamas when we were having dinner what
19:40do they look like um they're like green
19:44with like w the poo Okay
19:47um so when you say when she leaves to go
19:50out would she have changed yes cuz I was
19:53like I said my friend came around like
19:556:30 so we were already downstairs
19:58watching movies but when she went have
20:00to change quickly and go to her dance
20:02class at 7 okay and what car does she
20:04take when she leaves she takes the Lexus
20:07is that the only car she drives uh
20:09pretty much my father drives his
20:10Mercedes and my mother drives the Lexus
20:13do you do they have like parents have
20:16different kinds of routines do they have
20:17a routine where they park the car in the
20:19garage out of the garage or normally
20:21inside but uh if we plan to go out again
20:26um we park our car outside but only the
20:29Lexus so my mother when she came home
20:32from like I said going out with my aunt
20:34she had parked the car outside okay so
20:36when my friend came he parked beside her
20:39okay um closer to the door and where do
20:42they usually in the garage is there do
20:44they just take out either side or do
20:45they no no uh the Lexus IS normally on
20:48the when facing the house when looking
20:50at the house uh left side left side is
20:53Alexis and the Mercedes is on the right
20:55closer to the door front door no other
20:57cars in the house
20:59it belong to just those two okay so your
21:02mom's goes did you see her change her
21:04clothes unfortunately I I was
21:08watching I was just watching my TV show
21:10and where were you watching in the
21:11basement in the basement so when you say
21:14that she's wearing her her pajamas and
21:18she goes upstairs and change is that
21:20something you know or you're speculating
21:22no for sure she has to change into
21:24regular clothes to go and go dancing
21:27that's something that
21:29I didn't see it but I know for sure that
21:31that's what she does okay so your mom
21:34goes and where's your dad at this point
21:36he is uh well like I said around 6:30 he
21:38was just finishing up dinner and after
21:41he finished dinner he went up he goes
21:42upstairs and goes on the computer so
21:44let's talk about the layout of the house
21:46before we move on any further here
21:48you're in the basement yes okay um and
21:51it's just the two of you you and Adrian
21:54yes the the main level the ground level
21:56what's on the ground level
21:59um what we call our living dining room
22:01with my piano yes and then behind that
22:05is my family room okay and then beside
22:09the family room is our our kitchen so
22:13are they in separate locations living
22:15room dining room or is it living is it
22:17dining room dining room it's by more
22:18than a half like a there's a wall but
22:21there is a way to walk from living room
22:23dining room living room are combined
22:25sorry okay uh but to go to the family
22:27room there's like a wall but there is
22:30like a um not a doorway but like a
22:33opening yes to go through to the and the
22:36kitchen is where um in the front back
22:40side the back of the house the back of
22:42the house yes okay you go up the stairs
22:45what's what's on the stairs where what's
22:46upstairs how many bedrooms are up there
22:48uh four bedrooms but one we use as a
22:50study and where's the study located um
22:53that's the front of the house beside my
22:55parents uh my parents bedroom okay and
22:58where's your bedroom located um the back
23:01uh the back of the house and is there
23:03another bedroom back there too uh
23:05there's one more bedroom back there and
23:07that's used for my brother or my cousin
23:09depending on who comes home okay and
23:12your cousin who's uh his name is Curtis
23:15and he goes to school in waterl okay um
23:19during Co-op SE the last Co-op season he
23:21co-oped in Toronto so he stayed with us
23:24for four months Curtis's last name
23:27l l
23:29okay we'll get to Curtis after so now
23:31we're back your your your um your dad is
23:34upstairs did you see him go to the
23:36computer room like I said I you're
23:37speculating yes that's what his normal
23:39routine is that's his normal routine
23:42you're in the basement yes did you hear
23:44your mom leave or you yes yes okay and
23:48how do your parents leave when they're
23:49taking their cars now this time you say
23:51the car was out in the driveway did you
23:52hear how did when you say you heard your
23:54mom leave how what what where did she go
23:56out because uh where how the house is
23:59laid out the stairwell is in the middle
24:01of the house so she would have to
24:07walk she would have to walk across the
24:10stairs to go to the front door so I I
24:14heard her pass through okay and leave
24:18through the front door if you park your
24:20cars in your garage how do you get do
24:22they do your parents come close the door
24:24and come out and into the house or do
24:25they no if they park in the garage they
24:28come through there's an entrance from
24:30the garage to the house inside the
24:32garage how many ways are there to get
24:34into your house other than breaking a
24:36window like how many many doorways three
24:39so there's well there's the there's a
24:40door from the garage yes um the front
24:44doorway and the the backyard in the
24:48backyard okay so
24:52um it's now 7:00 or beyond your mom's
24:55gone your dad's you believe upstairs in
24:57the computer room
24:58in the office and you're downstairs with
25:00Adrian watching either the How I Met
25:02Your Mother or gos Gossip Girl a few
25:05episodes do you talk to anyone or text
25:08message anyone throughout the time that
25:09you're with Adrien no does Adrian talk
25:11or text message anyone throughout the
25:13time his phone wasn't I believe his
25:15phone was aside okay
25:19um and then what happens uh 9:00 comes
25:23and he says after that final episode we
25:25watch he's like it's time for me to go
25:27home so so I see him out and I went
25:30upstairs and got ready for bed okay and
25:35did you see your dad or hear your dad
25:36when you went upstairs when I went
25:37upstairs he was in his computer room
25:39like he normally is and on the computer
25:41at that point in time okay and your
25:44mom's not home no she her dancing
25:46doesn't finish till about 9:00 so she
25:47doesn't get home till closer to 9:30
25:50okay so you're in your bedroom and what
25:51are you doing I'm at this point I was on
25:54the phone with my friend Andrew okay and
25:58just talking to him and then event after
26:00and watching TV and then that was I
26:03don't remember how long the conversation
26:04was but then I ended up calling my
26:06friend
26:07Edward so Andrew Andrew is a old high
26:11school friend okay and is he the one
26:14that was you would talk to this is the
26:16person you said you were talking to who
26:18you're trying who was asking about
26:20meeting up with you yes so you were
26:23actually talking on the phone with him
26:24now yes did you you were talking on
26:26Facebook with him earlier no I was uh
26:29text messaging him text messaging him
26:31were you talking to anyone on Facebook
26:33at the same time cuz I know I know you
26:35guys can multitask no I believe my
26:37Facebook I keep my there's a chat window
26:40and I keep that as offline unless I
26:42intend to speak to one of my friends
26:45regarding one of the games I play so
26:47when you're talking to Andrew you're not
26:49talking to anyone else no when you're
26:51talking to Edward you're not talking to
26:53anyone else I don't have a computer in
26:55my room okay so that's that answers the
26:58question is that there's no computer in
27:00there room how many computers are in the
27:01house uh there's one computer I'm not
27:04sure about Towers because my brother
27:06recently took one to school with him but
27:09I know there's one fully working
27:10computer and my mother has a laptop do
27:13you use either um like I said I was on
27:16the main computer earlier yes and the
27:19laptop I use occasionally but not too
27:21often did you use it that day
27:30I
27:31don't I don't remember to be honest but
27:34I don't believe I did and what services
27:36do you use when you're using the the
27:39laptop or or the other what what you say
27:41you're on Facebook is there any other
27:42chat lines or any other sometimes I have
27:45uh an MSN open but rarely I don't like
27:48to be on MSN too much okay
27:52um so uh now we're at 9:00 and you're
27:57into the conversation You' had finished
27:59your conversation with Andrew and now
28:00you're speaking to Edward what time is
28:01it do you
28:04think 915 9:30 when you're talking to
28:08Edward is your mom have you heard your
28:10mom come in yet I heard my mom come in
28:11so I asked him to hold uh he had hung up
28:15so when I went down I was like hi Mom
28:18and then I saw her she had changed into
28:20her pajamas and she was downstairs
28:22watching TV again so let's stop it right
28:25there just hold it in check is that
28:30when she came in did you see her I
28:32didn't see her come in okay no when you
28:34heard her come in and you say she
28:36changed into her pajam she went up the
28:38stairs you heard her come up the stairs
28:39I heard my mom come up the stairs and go
28:41into her bedroom okay and then when I
28:43went down like she went back down the
28:44stairs and that's when I went out and I
28:46went down the stairs and that's when I
28:48noticed she was in her pajamas and just
28:50watching TV okay did you see your dad he
28:54had gone back to his bedroom to call it
28:56a night he his door was closed but uh he
29:00wasn't on the computer you could see in
29:02the computer room that he wasn't there
29:03was not there so this is after your mom
29:06after your mom arrives home you've heard
29:08her come up the stairs go into the go in
29:11the room you're suspecting she's changed
29:13because by the time you follow her down
29:15the stairs she's in her I didn't follow
29:16her she went down and then I went after
29:19sure you went down to talk to your mom
29:21just to make sure she was okay M what
29:24kind of what kind of pajamas is she
29:26wearing at this time green wining the
29:29Poo she went changed back into her green
29:30wining the Poo pajamas
29:32okay when you come
29:35downstairs are you noticing is there any
29:37problems any issues anything out of the
29:39norm when you go down because you said
29:40you went down to check on her and see
29:41how she was is there anything that's
29:43strange is there anything different not
29:45that I know she was just on the couch
29:47like she normally is watching television
29:49winding down
29:52okay and that's now I'm you're saying
29:569:15 to 9:30 she gets home that's that's
29:58after that obviously just a little bit
30:00after that yeah okay and then what
30:01happens I go back up my stairs and I
30:03call Ed again okay and uh I had to just
30:07wash them so I did put him on mute for a
30:09quick second and then I came back and I
30:12was just watching TV and talking with Ed
30:14okay how long are you now upstairs on
30:17the phone with with
30:20Edward I'm sorry about that time frame
30:22just like I'm not sure
30:26okay um your cell phone records are
30:29going to give us the exact times okay
30:31okay so are have you talked to anyone
30:33else is is it you hang up with Edward go
30:37down and see your mom come back upstairs
30:40yes call Edward yes use the washroom on
30:44the phone with Edward still yes have you
30:46talked anyone else no okay have you text
30:50message anyone
30:51else
30:53no how many I don't believe I had did
30:56now do you have more than one phone
30:58I had one but I keep that I just keep
31:01the SIM card yes um again we will go
31:05into the history sure but uh my cell
31:08phone gets taken away from me sometimes
31:10okay and so I had um a friend of mine
31:13Daniel he bought he got a SIM card for
31:16me to use sometimes but I take the SIM
31:19card out when I finish it and I normally
31:20keep it in my pocket so my parents
31:22wouldn't find it yes but I don't
31:24remember the last time I I used it
31:28okay but you didn't use that SIM card
31:30that day no I did not know you did not I
31:34don't remember the last time maybe it
31:35was a few days before that it was the
31:38last time I remember using it was when
31:40my grandfather was in the hospital and I
31:43had messaged him and he asked me how my
31:45grandfather was and how long when is
31:47that time frame that your grandfather
31:49went into the hospital he was in the
31:50hospital for about 10 days 10 days okay
31:53so that's the last time you remember
31:55using that SIM card Associated to from
31:58what your friend had given you yes was
32:00about 10 days earlier or even 12 days
32:03earlier because I believe you said your
32:04grandfather had come out of the hospital
32:06or was he still in the hospital yes no
32:08he was in the hospital for 10 days yes
32:10on Saturday he had gone back to his
32:13nursing home and this is Monday we're
32:16talking so it's
32:18about 12 to 14 days earlier that this
32:20happen that you you you use the Sim Card
32:22you're guessing with yeah probably more
32:26within a week yeah with in a week yeah
32:29cuz I mess give take seven days is that
32:31what we were saying yeah cuz uh I would
32:33messaged him when my grandfather was in
32:34the hospital okay yeah and where is that
32:37SIM card now I'm not sure I don't
32:40remember I had it in my jacket pocket
32:43but I don't remember where it is now
32:46okay
32:47so we're now back to you're on the phone
32:51with Edward again the history stuff
32:52you're right we I don't want it to get
32:54convoluted in here but we need to you
32:55know we'll talk about that stuff after
32:58so we're back on track here it's
33:00now you're back on the phone you've come
33:02from the washroom taken the you mute
33:04button off and you're now on the phone
33:05with Edward
33:07mhm where's your mom have you heard your
33:10mom come up the stairs is she still
33:11downstairs she's still downstairs she's
33:13still downstairs okay continue on um
33:18just I had my TV on cuz I was watching
33:20TV yes
33:23uh I don't remember what show I was
33:26watching I believe it was amazing
33:29Amazing Race I'm I'm not 100% sure at
33:33this moment uh I was watching TV and on
33:35the phone was Ed as well okay and
33:40then I the next thing I remember is my
33:43mother calling down for my
33:46father what is she saying she's calling
33:49him by his name and to come
33:51down okay does so give us Verbatim what
33:53do you hear her saying is it in the
33:57viese China or is it in English is in
33:59Vietnamese okay what do you hear her
34:01say in Vietnamese she like
34:05Han and what does that translate to uh
34:08this my father's name Han uh come down
34:11here does she say anything else
34:13associated with that with that I can't
34:16hear clearly because like I was on the
34:19phone and the TV was on but that's what
34:21I heard is she yelling or is it um
34:25normal it's allow it's a she's not
34:27yelling but it's it's a loud tone okay
34:30and normally that tone means that I need
34:32to go down and see what's happening
34:35usually so that's when I told him I told
34:37Edward I was like okay I got to go I'll
34:39call you later and I hang up the phone
34:41with him have you heard anything else at
34:43this point in time as I'm hanging up the
34:46phone with him I hear footsteps going up
34:47the stairs okay but they're
34:50not they're heavier footsteps than what
34:54is to be expected from my parents okay
34:58and then I hear mumbling and someone's
35:00in the master bedroom and I hear the bed
35:04being tossed and I just froze where I
35:08was after they I don't know how long
35:12they were in there but I heard somebody
35:17going down the stairs so at this point I
35:21opened my
35:22door I peered out and there was a person
35:28in the my what would have been my
35:30brother's room and where's your
35:31brother's room located uh just a little
35:33bit down like I could see my from my
35:35doorway to his doorway just a little bit
35:37down the hall
35:40okay and he looks at me and he pulls out
35:43his
35:44gun and he walks towards me and like
35:48sits me down on my bed cuz my bed is
35:52within a step from my
35:54door and he's like where's the money do
35:57you have any money money give me your
36:04money so I had some money that I had
36:07saved up from serving and I was also
36:10planning on buying a new cell phone cuz
36:12my contract was finishing with
36:15Rogers and the phone I'm currently using
36:19has not good reception so I had about
36:24$2,000 saved up
36:29and so I opened my drawer and I pointed
36:32at it and he picked it up and took the
36:36cash and put it in his
36:42pocket at this point he ties my hands
36:44behind my
36:46back and he walks me out okay so stop
36:50right there for a
36:51second okay I want you now that you've
36:54got him right there I want you to
36:55describe him to me what you can remember
36:59every little
37:06detail he's black with
37:10dreadlocks how long are the
37:13dreadlocks about show me on your on your
37:16on your own body where they where you
37:17would see them about shoulder length
37:19Okay but they were long enough that they
37:23were able to move
37:28uh
37:29he's I would he's medium build and he's
37:35slight when I was standing I was almost
37:40I level with
37:42him and you help when he came up to me
37:44I'm about 5'7
37:51okay clothing all I could remember is
37:54dark clothing
38:00now you got the you've got a gun pointed
38:02at you yes and then he told okay uh the
38:07gun was
38:09black with um
38:14almost not a triangle but
38:17it kind of tapered a little on the
38:22handle and I would describe it as like
38:26um what I see on TV for like police
38:29officers kind of like like a like a
38:32handgun sort of
38:35thing and the whole time he kept telling
38:37me to look
38:42down cuz my bedroom was dark but the
38:45hallway was lit so he kept telling me to
38:47look down look
38:51down at this point any accent
38:57not from this particular person does he
39:00sound like he was born and raised in
39:04Canada I'd
39:05say I would say that he was born in
39:08Canada
39:09but like there was no sign of an accent
39:12in his and that's what I mean culturally
39:15I'm talking about the language you know
39:16you can tell someone who's spent a long
39:18time as a young age from starting
39:20because there there is no it's it's
39:22normal normal speech is that what you're
39:25saying yes okay
39:28can you see anything on his hands uh
39:30he's wearing gloves what type of gloves
39:34uh black leather
39:36gloves okay now facial experience before
39:40you he tells you to look down do you see
39:42anything is you got a wide nose is he
39:44got is his um any pock marks any acne
39:47any facial hair
40:00the only I could really make out is just
40:02the general shape of his face which is
40:04because the only thing I
40:07could the thing that caught my attention
40:10was the which was the gun
40:14okay what about his facial what about
40:16what he looks like tell me about that
40:18you said about the side or the the uh
40:20shape of his
40:24face it's not round but it's
40:29it's not a narrow face
40:33I
40:36um his he didn't have like his cheeks
40:41were protruding but they were they're
40:45not like the normal people
40:55um it
40:57like almost like a roundish squarish
41:00face
41:01mhm uh his cheeks he had cheeks it
41:06wasn't like like um what they call
41:10um the defined um the the cheekbones
41:14like it was it was almost like round a
41:17full full like there was some meat there
41:19right like I wouldn't I wouldn't say fat
41:21like it wasn't like a protruding but it
41:23was there was no like definition okay
41:28and now this guy's age and I know it's
41:31very difficult to Define but um you know
41:33people age differently and they have
41:35different appearances where would you
41:37put this this this
41:39guy uh very late 20s to early 30 so I
41:45would if I had to put numbers I'd say
41:46somewhere between 28 to about
41:4933 if you saw a picture of this guy in a
41:53compos like on a profile do you think
41:55you could identify
41:59I wouldn't be 100% certain okay so if
42:03everyone looked like if everyone had
42:06dreadlocks and the face was very
42:08familiar I didn't get a very very clear
42:12look at his face because I'm sorry but
42:15the the only thing I
42:17could really see was that he had pointed
42:20that at me and okay now I think uh
42:23another possibility is just based on you
42:26if we sat you in front of a composite
42:27drawer it sounds like you could give
42:29them some some raw information that
42:32might be able to help in that area Okay
42:34so if you can't do that ID that that
42:36that one's still available okay so now
42:40he's uh you've given he's taken your
42:42money where and where exactly where's
42:43your money located uh I my TV is on a on
42:49a bedside table and I keep it in a
42:51little book almost um a day planner but
42:55I don't use it for day planning okay um
42:57it it was a gift from friends what are
42:59you wearing right now um I'm wearing
43:03what I was prepared to go to bed I'm
43:05wearing my black pants and um H an old
43:10figure skating uh sweater that I had
43:12gotten describe the sweater to me like
43:15what is it does it have pockets does it
43:16have a hood does it is it just a sweater
43:18no it's just a like a slip-on sweater no
43:20hood no pockets okay so when you get off
43:23the phone with Edward and you're saying
43:26where does this phone go
43:27I stick it uh right here on the back
43:31side of my pants back side of your pants
43:34yes so in the waistband yes
43:37okay you open the door you see this
43:40figure he's coming he's taking the money
43:42and the bed the night stand is on what
43:43side of your bed if you're looking at if
43:46you're looking at the front of your bed
43:47this way where is the
43:49nightstand night it's in front of my bed
43:53okay so it's right beside the the door
43:55yes
43:58the this the nightstand the TV and my
44:01bed is long towards the TV to watch did
44:05he take anything else from your
44:08room not when I was there no not when
44:11you were there no okay did he toss your
44:16room I don't while you were there no
44:21okay so he takes you you're you're Le
44:24outs out to out of the hallway now and
44:25what happens and are the lights in the
44:27hallway still
44:30on yes but he's telling me to look down
44:33okay and at this point now he's behind
44:36me he had grabbed me at the shirt and he
44:40had pulled me in front of him and uh was
44:45pushing me towards the stairs
44:49okay what does he
44:51say he keeps yelling hurry up hurry up
44:58do what we're saying and no one will get
45:02hurt
45:11okay and then he takes me down the
45:14stairs and the lights on the main floor
45:17were all turned
45:20off we
45:25take my stairs are a little curved and
45:28we just went he sat he made me pushed me
45:31down by my shoulders and told me to sit
45:35on the floor do you feel the gun is he
45:38using his hand he's using his hand to
45:41lead me down the stairs and forc me to
45:43sit down only one hand okay you see the
45:47gun
45:48again at this point I'm looking down and
45:50he's behind me so I don't see his
45:53gun um but I can see
45:57there's two other shadows and I can
46:02see from where I was standing my father
46:04was sitting on the right and my mother
46:06was sitting on the left sitting where on
46:09a couch on our couch sitting on the
46:12couch are they looking out towards you
46:15no their backs are towards me okay and
46:18you're now on the ground level are you
46:20on the floor or on the sitting sitting
46:22on the floor I'm sitting on the floor
46:24all right where are your hands they had
46:26tied my hands so let's go let's go back
46:28up to the stairs remember we said take
46:31the other statement and whatever we've
46:32said before no I I said it earlier okay
46:34then we must let's let's get back to
46:36that area I think you might have touched
46:37on it we went back into the scription so
46:39where does you where do you get your
46:41hands tied and where does the string
46:42come from I'm not sure where the string
46:45comes from but he had the string okay
46:49and he after I gave him my money that's
46:52when he tied my
46:53hands and how did that happen where were
46:56you in the the room in the hallway where
46:58toed he told me to sit down on the edge
47:00of my bed yes and that's when I opened
47:05he show he told me showed show me and I
47:08pulled open my my drawer my dresser and
47:13he saw the money and he picked it up my
47:16book and then he opened up the book and
47:18grabbed the cash put in his pocket
47:22okay at this point he still has a gun
47:24pointing towards me
47:27and
47:33he you're doing great you're doing
47:36fabulous okay so he's got the gun
47:39pointed at
47:42you and how do the hands get behind your
47:44back he told me to put my hands behind
47:46my back
47:50okay continue
48:03I believe he
48:09had I'm sorry I'm just trying to be 100%
48:12certain and it's just it's pieces that
48:15I'm then roll through them we'll put the
48:17pieces
48:20together
48:21I you've got the money out of the drawer
48:24open the drawer put it in his pocket I'm
48:25sitting on my bed
48:28yes and he had told me to put my hands
48:30behind my back
48:33okay but it was
48:36dark so I believe he told me to stand up
48:40so he could tie my hands
48:42together and I was trying
48:46to make it loose so I
48:49could I could do something but he had
48:52pulled him so
48:54tight and he made sure I squealed before
48:58he before he let go is your TV
49:02on okay my TV's on the whole time
49:09okay so you've squealed they tight and
49:12they're behind your back and that's when
49:14he grabs me and starts leading me down
49:15the stairs okay does he pat you down or
49:18search you or do anything thank goodness
49:20no cuz if he had Pat me down he would
49:22have found my phone okay so you you're
49:26now down at the bottom of the stairs you
49:29at this point in time you've only seen
49:30one person or have you seen the others
49:32before you get to the bottom of the
49:33stairs before I get to the bottom of the
49:34stairs I had seen one person okay so now
49:40you're at the bottom of the stairs and
49:42he keeps telling these guys to hurry up
49:43hurry up it's taking too
49:45long
49:47and he he told me to look down but I was
49:51able
49:52to see out of my peripheral
50:02a man that I will call number three
50:04because I associated with him the
50:08least he had a
50:14gun pointed at my
50:17father asking him if he had money in his
50:22wallet and where the money was in the
50:24house
50:27and he asked my father how much he had
50:28in his wallet and my father answered him
50:31$60 and he kept yelling you better not
50:34be lying to me is there more where is
50:36the
50:40rest
50:43and another person who was hiding
50:47behind the wall in the kitchen from
50:50where I said I couldn't see him at
50:52first he had was asking my mother where
50:55her purse was
50:58so hang on a second who is this is this
50:59another another guy is this number a
51:01number you've gone from a number one to
51:03a number three yes I I call this guy
51:05number two okay so number three let's
51:07stick with number three what what can
51:09you describe of him if
51:12anything including the
51:15gun I can only see that there was
51:19around a kind like a
51:22revolver sorry that's okay remember if
51:26you have to stop and take some deep
51:27breaths it that really does help the
51:31process his gun had what you call a re I
51:36believe a
51:37revolver it like one of those things you
51:39see in old old western
51:43movies and he had I could just see uh
51:48almost like a silhouette of it from the
51:50light uh coming through the the
51:54curtain so in proximity now you're
51:57looking through the periple okay uh is
52:00it you're looking right or left from
52:02where you are um right you're looking
52:04right so you're looking over here to the
52:05right okay and you can see your backs of
52:09your mom and dad who are sitting on the
52:10couch yes can you see what they're
52:14wearing I can't see what my father's
52:16wearing can you see what your mom's
52:18wearing at that point in time I couldn't
52:21see what my mother's wearing it was
52:23later on that I saw what she was wearing
52:25okay so we'll go on to later on
52:27then so there you can see them in the
52:29back and where is the silhouette in
52:30relation to your mom and dad standing in
52:34front of my father okay so is is is a
52:38house this the what what lights are on
52:41on the ground level none he they cracked
52:45open the fridge a few times for light
52:48but the only light on the main floor was
52:52the one shining through the windows and
52:54doors
52:57the this number three guy you hear him
53:00speak what what do you what do you
53:01notice about or know about his his
53:04um the words he's speaking accent if any
53:09it's
53:11um it's
53:14uh he's not from well he wasn't the
53:17accent is not what I normally hear it
53:21was almost Caribbean like Jamaican or
53:25gyes or
53:28like that kind of accent yep
53:31um have you got friends who the reason I
53:33asked you is is the Jamaican accent or
53:35the guyane accent have you got friends
53:37who have that accent that you recognize
53:39it growing up there was
53:42uh growing up uh one of my friends uh
53:45was from gu Guyana and
53:48uh I remember vaguely like when his
53:51parents came for uh School
53:54functions it was sort of
53:56something like that so it's tweaking you
53:58to some a car like a a Western Caribbean
54:01Island area is like Jamaica or or um
54:06Guyana something something like that
54:08okay so you hear him talk and describe
54:11his silhouette to me what you see of it
54:13all I could see is that he's slim and
54:17Tall
54:19um again I was sitting on the floor but
54:22no race he it was dark but
54:29I you can't put a race to him would not
54:32with I don't want to put a race with
54:33voice I want a race by color I could not
54:37see it was dark I could not see his face
54:42okay and now number two okay you say
54:46that doors fridge doors where does he
54:48come into play where do you first see
54:50him I first see him when he's asking my
54:52mother where her purse
54:54is and um
54:57they kept telling us that if we just
54:58cooperated everything would be okay so
55:02she I just just interrupt you because we
55:05I want to stay on get back to three
55:06before we move on to two is is three
55:08when is is number three how is his
55:10interaction with their father when he's
55:12telling him about demanding the money
55:14and the only money and not lying to him
55:17is this like is he talking in a low
55:19monotone voice or is he yelling at him
55:22how is the how's the interaction going
55:28a Stern voice Stern but not
55:31screaming not
55:34angry okay so I interrupted you now back
55:37to number two where he's asking your mom
55:40for her wallet her purse Pur her purse
55:43at first and this is at the point where
55:46my mother stands up and that's when I
55:49saw that's when I saw her clothes again
55:52okay at this point in the night obvious
55:56and what is she wearing uh she's still
55:57wearing her wi the Poo pajamas as she
55:59was when I had come down earlier
56:04okay and
56:07I all I could see was
56:11that he had pushed her back onto the
56:14couch and she who pushed her number two
56:16okay was pushing her back onto the coou
56:20and she she kept saying where's my purse
56:22where's my
56:23purse and the guy kept telling her to
56:26sit down and I didn't want my mom to get
56:32hurt how many times do she get up and
56:35get pushed back
56:43down I'd say she got up
56:47twice and she and then they told the
56:51first time she stepped back and sat down
56:53but the second time she was pushed back
56:55onto the
56:57this is only by number two yes cuz
56:59number one was standing behind me is he
57:02saying anything during this process he
57:05keeps uttering that we have to hurry up
57:09it's taking too
57:11long that's at that point that's he kept
57:15saying hurry up it's taking too
57:18long is there any other demands from
57:20either two or three or one
57:23about about wallet or purse is there any
57:26two was the one talking to my father
57:29asking about his
57:30wallet and number one and he kept saying
57:33where's the rest of the money and
57:35where's the purse was coming from number
57:38one number one behind you yes I thought
57:42but number number two didn't speak okay
57:45well you just said number two is the one
57:47who's making demands of no he's the one
57:49looking okay he's the one looking so
57:52number two as we we're stepping back to
57:55because I don't want to conf refuse this
57:56thing I want to slow it down no no no no
57:58no don't be sorry we're just going to
58:00slow it down okay you're you're getting
58:02agitated and and and um you're anxious
58:06so we're going to slow things down again
58:08because it's very important in this area
58:10right as you had said that number two
58:14talks to your mom and says where's your
58:18purse and pushes her down so now you
58:21said that number two didn't speak so
58:23let's clarify that okay what I meant was
58:25number one had asked her where her purse
58:27was and she was mumbling where's my
58:29purse and number two was the one that
58:31pushed her so your number number one is
58:34talking to your mom from behind you yes
58:37okay where's your purse where's your
58:38purse yes she gets up and number two
58:43number two steps forward and that's when
58:47my mom steps back and sits
58:50down has number two uttered a word at
58:52this point in
58:54time I can't remember hearing
58:57okay so we're just correcting what you
58:59said earlier because you said earlier
59:00that it was number two who was asking
59:02where the purse is what are the purses
59:04and now you've said now it's number one
59:07guy who would initially no no no it's
59:10all a purpose the purpose here is
59:12clarifying what you're saying so number
59:14one is don't number one is the one who's
59:17doing the talking about the purse number
59:20three is focused on your dad's
59:23wallet okay number two pushes your mom
59:26back into place into the scene now at
59:29this point in time can you see number
59:30two can you see his description at this
59:33point in time all I can see is a hoodie
59:35and slim build a hoodie and slim build
59:38do you see a gun on him I'm on the floor
59:41I can't see what like what his hands
59:44were doing when you say you're on the
59:46floor how are you on the floor how are
59:48you what are you how what's your
59:49position are you lying on the floor you
59:50sitting on the floor I'm sitting on the
59:53floor cross-legged
59:56when with uh number one behind me
1:00:00okay so you've now um you've now got
1:00:07your dad like who's told him about the
1:00:09wallet upstairs was $60 you got your mom
1:00:12who's they're asking about a purse from
1:00:14number one let's go from
1:00:19there how is your mom dealing with this
1:00:22when she's getting up and getting pushed
1:00:23back down is she responding to them is
1:00:25she talking to them she keeps saying cuz
1:00:29they keep uttering if you
1:00:30cooperate no one will get
1:00:33hurt
1:00:37and she keeps asking herself where's my
1:00:41purse where's my
1:00:43purse in
1:00:48English and then I believe she remembers
1:00:51that she didn't take a purse out she
1:00:53only had a wallet that day
1:00:57after she came home she had a
1:01:01wallet she was trying to find it and
1:01:03number two was looking around for it was
1:01:06she up helping to look for
1:01:08it that the second time that's when she
1:01:10stood up to help and that's when she got
1:01:12pushed back down
1:01:16okay are they bound do you see their
1:01:19hands or my mother when she got up I she
1:01:22was not bound
1:01:24okay so do they direct number two to
1:01:27where this per where the wallet is or
1:01:29does he find it that you
1:01:32know I don't know okay so then what
1:01:36happens and
1:01:38then number one tells me to stand up and
1:01:42because I'm cross on the floor I and
1:01:44with my hands behind my back I couldn't
1:01:46get up very well and so he kind
1:01:49of he with one hand he kind of pulled me
1:01:54up and
1:01:57and he said come
1:02:00here he didn't say who or what he just
1:02:03said come
1:02:04here and he brought me upstairs and he
1:02:07said you're going to take me to the
1:02:10wallet show me where your father's
1:02:11wallet where does he keep his
1:02:22wallet and at this point number two had
1:02:24come upstairs
1:02:28and since he was
1:02:30upstairs I'm just turning this off cuz
1:02:32it's going number two sorry so let's
1:02:34start there hang on a second again come
1:02:36with me come with me they take me to my
1:02:39parents' room and I can see the bed is
1:02:43turned over and everything's arai and
1:02:46you're with um number one is still
1:02:48behind me yes and number two at the
1:02:51point is on his way up okay so he's not
1:02:53up there yet okay do you hear any
1:02:56interaction going on between your
1:02:58parents and number three can you hear
1:03:07anything I don't recall anything okay so
1:03:10you get to the top of the stairs and he
1:03:12takes me to my parents room where are
1:03:14you standing at first I was standing at
1:03:16the doorway like in the middle of the
1:03:18doorway and then he pushed me aside to
1:03:20my left a little so that number two can
1:03:23come in okay you get a good look at
1:03:25number or two now of what he's
1:03:27wearing all I could tell was he had a
1:03:29vest and his face was like a long oval
1:03:32face he had a vest no hoodie
1:03:36okay uh dark hoodie okay and was there
1:03:40anything on his face or was there could
1:03:41you see his face again he kept telling
1:03:44me to keep my head down and every time I
1:03:47tried to he used his hand and he cuz he
1:03:49had me by my shoulder he kind of just
1:03:52let go for a second push my head down to
1:03:54make sure I wouldn't look up okay is the
1:03:57where you know what the light what the
1:03:58lights you said in the hallway upstairs
1:04:00were on are they on still Yes okay when
1:04:02you're looking down can you see what
1:04:04number one is wearing on his pants or
1:04:07his shoes he
1:04:09was not directly behind me and I was
1:04:13there was just so much in front of me
1:04:15that had happened and I don't recall
1:04:19okay so where are you facing if you're
1:04:22at the doorway fac when you're looking
1:04:25in are the lights to your mom and dad's
1:04:26room
1:04:27on are you now facing into the room and
1:04:31what do you see you said you saw the bed
1:04:33turned up turned so the room has been
1:04:35rummaged through is is is what your is
1:04:37that the state of your parents room no
1:04:40okay it was it like they had flipped the
1:04:43bed okay and when you say you move to
1:04:46the left are you still able to look
1:04:48inside the
1:04:50bedroom where do they have you look
1:04:52where are you looking now almost like
1:04:53I'm right beside the wall and my parents
1:04:56have a my mother has a sewing table
1:04:59there okay so I'm just pretty much
1:05:02staring at I'm like looking down at the
1:05:04table and peripherals you can't see
1:05:08where where he's no and where is number
1:05:10one at this point he's still behind me
1:05:13okay so what's going on inside the room
1:05:15with number two now in there he's
1:05:17looking for my parents my father's jeans
1:05:19and he's asking me where is it but I
1:05:22don't know where it is cuz they had
1:05:23turned the room around
1:05:28and then number one pulled me backwards
1:05:32and told me to sit at the top of the
1:05:34banister and tied my hands back uh tied
1:05:38my arm to the
1:05:39banister okay now did did you see them
1:05:42recover anything inside your mom and
1:05:44dad's room I did not see anything
1:05:49no are you sure because uh we would when
1:05:52we spoke the last time there was some
1:05:54mention of some other money that went
1:06:05missing
1:06:10there yes the US currency so how did
1:06:13that get found
1:06:26I believe when they were looking for my
1:06:28father's wallet they had opened the
1:06:31drawer and there was a it was in an
1:06:34envelope what drawer would that have
1:06:36been in on
1:06:38my on the if you're in at the door where
1:06:42I was standing on the left side the
1:06:44bedside table whose side of the bed is
1:06:47it that's my mother's side of the bed
1:06:49okay and approximately how much
1:06:53money I'm not sure how much she took out
1:06:56for our our
1:06:58trip but I can I can only estimate about
1:07:03few hundred few hundred because at the
1:07:05time the last time you told me you were
1:07:07pretty Adam about $1,100 so I'm curious
1:07:10to know how you came up with that
1:07:17number I believe is when we were at the
1:07:20border we and we stopped at the dutyfree
1:07:23my mother was deciding whether to use
1:07:24her us C currency or
1:07:27her her US currency or her Canadian
1:07:31currency so it was at that time you
1:07:34remember hearing
1:07:35$1,100 and that's what is that the
1:07:37inference you're saying is that because
1:07:39you're pretty solid saying that it was
1:07:41$1,100 that went missing that was was
1:07:44taken and that you saw
1:07:47it when we
1:07:52spoke and who took it Who took
1:07:55possession of the
1:07:57money I'm sorry it's all
1:08:02right were you ever inside the room did
1:08:05they ever take you inside the room did
1:08:06you ever make it past the threshold of
1:08:08that
1:08:15door don't
1:08:21remember okay so let's come back to now
1:08:26you're being taken to the the banister
1:08:28in the upper don't apologize okay I'm
1:08:31going to try and ask you questions to
1:08:33try and clarify points okay if you don't
1:08:35remember you don't
1:08:37remember okay so don't there's no
1:08:40apologizing the only reason you would
1:08:41apologize to me is if you've lied to me
1:08:44no okay just then in this case then
1:08:47don't apologize to me it's okay okay I'm
1:08:49going to ask you questions to clarify
1:08:51points okay so you're at the you've been
1:08:53taken back to the banister who is there
1:08:57number one took me back okay where's
1:08:59number two he was still in the
1:09:01bedroom
1:09:03okay how do you get tied to this
1:09:14banister he number
1:09:17one number two had come out
1:09:20of come out of the
1:09:23room and he had
1:09:25told number
1:09:27two go get cuzy for the string uh no it
1:09:31was go get
1:09:40cuz he had said that I need a string go
1:09:44get
1:09:45cuz and number two ran down the stairs
1:09:47and he came back up shortly
1:09:49after and then
1:10:06and I believe number two was the one
1:10:08that tied me
1:10:09up cuz number one was still holding the
1:10:11gun in front of me so number one is now
1:10:14in front of you he has been in front of
1:10:16me since he pulled me out of the bedroom
1:10:17okay and he sat me down and he was in
1:10:20front of me making sure I was down so on
1:10:23this gun that you're looking at that's
1:10:24in front of you is there can you see
1:10:26what type of gun is it does it have a
1:10:28cylinder or round thing like an old gun
1:10:30or does it look like more it like uh it
1:10:33just reminded me of the like television
1:10:36police like the handguns
1:10:38yeah yeah okay and it's
1:10:42black can you see from there now you're
1:10:44in front of him and you're looking down
1:10:45can you see his shoes can you see
1:10:47anything else about him I want you to
1:10:48think right now just TR it's tough to
1:10:51put yourself back in that spot but
1:10:53you've never been tied up I suspect are
1:10:55bound like that and now you're sitting
1:10:57there staring down can you is there
1:10:58anything that you remember about his
1:11:00shoes or his
1:11:10pants any idea where this string came
1:11:12from do does it does it when you're
1:11:15you're seeing it come around because
1:11:16it's now lit does it look like it's come
1:11:19from some from clothing or from shoes
1:11:22that you might have in your house
1:11:25or you don't know it
1:11:28just it just look like a black shoelace
1:11:32I
1:11:35okay any any interaction any
1:11:37communication going on between you and
1:11:39number one and and number two while this
1:11:41is being while you're being bound my
1:11:44mother's calling for me okay and they
1:11:47keep
1:11:48saying that just shut
1:11:52up who's saying that to who
1:11:56number three is downstairs and she's
1:11:57telling her to shut up she's telling her
1:11:59to shut up what's your dad doing I can't
1:12:02hear my father
1:12:06okay you're now bound to this to the to
1:12:09the railing can you show me can you
1:12:12stand up and turn around and tell me
1:12:13just show on the camera how your hands
1:12:15are
1:12:17bound and how you are against the
1:12:19railing you don't have to sit down I
1:12:20just need to see how you work
1:12:29just telling me the only reason that I'm
1:12:31trying to I need to do this is that I'm
1:12:34also going to ask you is that it's so
1:12:36take this back to from take it out of a
1:12:38traumatizing event which it is and put
1:12:40put yourself into more clinical position
1:12:42because I want to see how you could
1:12:44physically get your phone out of your
1:12:46waistband we're obviously going to need
1:12:48to know that it's very important so
1:12:50traumatize a way now put yourself into a
1:12:53just a state of I need to man
1:12:55mechanically show how I can get access
1:12:57to my phone okay because that's
1:13:00obviously very relevant I we know you
1:13:01made the phone call but questions are
1:13:04going to obviously raise is that if my
1:13:06hands are bound and I against the
1:13:07railing how do I talk to a 911 operator
1:13:11okay so clinically this is now a
1:13:13clinical
1:13:14demonstration just stand up focus in on
1:13:18how you did
1:13:23it and I want you to stick that in your
1:13:26waistband as an example okay so take
1:13:28your just take your sweater off because
1:13:29this will be a very smooth very quick
1:13:31thing it's a onetime demonstration I'm
1:13:33not going to ask you to repeat it but I
1:13:35need to go through it okay so just take
1:13:36your sweater
1:13:46off stand up and turn
1:13:49around put this in the side that you
1:13:51believe it was in
1:13:55great turn around so that only you're
1:13:57looking away from me you're looking
1:13:59exactly like now here is where the
1:14:01banister is put your hands back behind
1:14:03your back exactly how you remember they
1:14:06were okay now and are you restrained
1:14:09from movement how far can you move your
1:14:11hands from the
1:14:14banister they tied my upper arm yes
1:14:17around the banister yes but my hands are
1:14:20bound together so your hands bound
1:14:22together and this is the arm that's the
1:14:24the strings wrapped around against the
1:14:25banister mhm okay so now how can you get
1:14:28to the
1:14:31phone and how do you make the phone
1:14:36call 911 MH and do you talk down like
1:14:41that yes I'm yelling at the phone like
1:14:43this and how can you
1:14:45hear I turned the volume on Max
1:14:49yes so that's exactly the way that
1:14:51you're talking to her against the
1:14:53railing mhm okay that's good enough sit
1:14:56down put your sweater back
1:15:00on just put your sweat yeah
1:15:05yeah you want it you want some more
1:15:08water I'm okay okay I really appreciate
1:15:13that obviously it's very important to
1:15:14see it because we can't put you would be
1:15:17absolutely
1:15:18physically impossible to put you back
1:15:21into the same position but we just
1:15:23needed to see how you get the phone out
1:15:26and and make their
1:15:34call okay so sit back take a couple of
1:15:38deep breaths
1:15:45again when you're when you're up against
1:15:48the railing and now you've been
1:15:51bound
1:15:52and is number two and number one still
1:15:55there or are they gone number one was
1:15:58there for a little bit number two ran
1:16:00down the stairs what is number one is he
1:16:02saying anything to
1:16:03you he's saying you
1:16:09obeyed and just shut up and don't
1:16:15move and he continues yelling downstairs
1:16:17hurry
1:16:19up hurry up it's taking too long hurry
1:16:21up
1:16:29now tell me something okay which is kind
1:16:31of
1:16:33important there's a safe in the house is
1:16:35there
1:16:39not safe is in a fairly visible place
1:16:44within within your parents bedroom is it
1:16:47not it's inside their closet fairly
1:16:50visible Accord at least from the
1:16:52pictures
1:16:56was there ever mention of wanting the
1:16:58combination to that
1:17:03safe through any of the interaction of
1:17:05one two and three did they know that
1:17:07there was a safe in
1:17:10place I don't I I'm not aware if they
1:17:16knew okay I didn't so you never heard
1:17:19any of them demanding the safe the the
1:17:21the um the combination to the safe
1:17:28was there anything else they were
1:17:29demanding in their yell yelling it was
1:17:31was it was it what was the focus of what
1:17:34they were looking for cash
1:17:40cash okay so number one's talking to you
1:17:44you
1:17:45obeyed and we need to go we need to
1:17:50go and where does he go from that point
1:17:53in time he's yelling down the
1:17:56stairs is there
1:17:59more and number two I can just hear him
1:18:02muffling something I I don't hear him
1:18:05clearly number two or number three no
1:18:07sorry number three number
1:18:10three I'm sorry number three
1:18:13okay it's just a m but I can't I can't
1:18:18hear what he's saying okay
1:18:26at this point I started hearing my
1:18:27parents get
1:18:29up and they're moving and my mom's
1:18:31yelling where's my daughter I want my
1:18:34daughter where's my
1:18:36daughter and I'm yelling your mom I'm
1:18:40here are they saying anything to your
1:18:46parents I know she's yelling to you okay
1:18:49she's she's yelling to
1:18:51you are they saying anything
1:18:59like are they giving them directions as
1:19:01to where they're
1:19:20going or can you remember well I can he
1:19:24is my mom right now now
1:19:27okay so you hear them get up and you're
1:19:30moving and they're moving in what
1:19:35direction towards the basement
1:19:38okay are you still hearing one and two
1:19:41or one and three are you hearing all
1:19:42three of
1:19:43them number one and what's he saying
1:19:47hurry up is there more
1:20:00okay at this point he throws my
1:20:07glasses and he walks down the
1:20:09stairs so he's still up there with you
1:20:12when do you and and at this so you've
1:20:14had your glasses on the whole time when
1:20:16does he take them off right before he
1:20:18leaves right after so you're you're tied
1:20:20to the banister you're just before he
1:20:23leaves to go down the stairs Your Glass
1:20:24glasses are off you have had your
1:20:26glasses on the whole time prior to that
1:20:32okay so now you hear your parents up and
1:20:35they're moving towards the basement do
1:20:37you hear what do you
1:20:40hear where's the rest of the
1:20:46money whose
1:20:50voice the one with the Caribbean accent
1:20:52number three
1:20:54who we've called number three where's
1:20:57the rest of the money is that as your as
1:21:00you hear your parents moving I can hear
1:21:02them stepping down the stairs
1:21:05okay and then after number one joins
1:21:09them after he took my
1:21:12glasses you heard him go down the stairs
1:21:14as well number one then left me yes and
1:21:18he went down the stairs and I asked my
1:21:21mom was still calling for me and I
1:21:23wanted to go and he says no
1:21:29should taken me okay hang on a second
1:21:33hang
1:21:36on so number you hear number one say no
1:21:39to your response to your demand of
1:21:41wanting to go do you hear the questions
1:21:43coming or your mom saying where is she
1:21:45where is she are she starting to make
1:21:47her are they starting to go down to the
1:21:49basement are they on the stairs leading
1:21:50to the
1:21:52basement can you hear I'm I'm I'm going
1:21:54to ask you to focus in because it's very
1:21:56difficult I'm going to ask you to focus
1:21:58in are you hearing all of them going
1:22:01downstairs can you hear that that many
1:22:03footstep that's five sets of
1:22:12steps CU if your mom is moving down to
1:22:15the basement with these guys and number
1:22:16one is walking down to join them he
1:22:18would be he would be later he he would
1:22:20be walking down does he go down to the
1:22:22basement or do you know
1:22:28can't
1:22:32tell here Jennifer take a
1:22:35Kleenex and
1:22:37just take a minute
1:22:55okay so we're now down in the basement
1:22:57they're down in the you know your
1:22:58parents are down in the basement you
1:23:00don't know who's down there with them
1:23:02you can't tell how many people went down
1:23:05you know that L one left and was heading
1:23:07in down in that direction but you don't
1:23:08know by footsteps Who's down there I
1:23:12wasn't paying attention that's all right
1:23:14whose voices can you hear now down in
1:23:16the
1:23:22basement I can just remember number
1:23:25three saying you lied there's more where
1:23:29is it you
1:23:30lied you're
1:23:38lying okay and then what do you hear
1:24:02I hear
1:24:06a heard
1:24:09pop and then my mom I heard her
1:24:13squeal so do you hear one pop or do you
1:24:16hear two that's what I can't remember
1:24:18then don't it's it's one or
1:24:21two okay and then you hear your mom's
1:24:23squeal
1:24:27and then what do you
1:24:32hear another one or two pops do you hear
1:24:36any voices in between other than your
1:24:37mom squealing do you hear number three
1:24:39say anything oh I care I was like
1:24:41calling for her
1:24:45okay don't apologize okay this is
1:24:49nothing to feel to apologize to me for
1:24:51this is something that you're trying to
1:24:53remember so you heard a pop you heard
1:24:56your mom
1:24:57squeal and then you heard
1:25:00another any idea how many more Pops you
1:25:04heard I just remember that I heard one
1:25:07or two and then there
1:25:08was slight
1:25:12break and there was one
1:25:15more I don't remember it was two and
1:25:17then break and then one or if it was one
1:25:19and then break and then one okay so
1:25:22you're saying that you heard a to total
1:25:24of how many pops
1:25:31guessing four or five four or five okay
1:25:35so you hear after those pops popping
1:25:40noises what do you hear after the last
1:25:42popping noise you've heard what do you
1:25:44hear that's
1:25:47it it's too long let's go from number
1:25:51one that's it it's too long let's go
1:25:57okay I just hear a bunch of foots
1:26:04going does it sound like they're
1:26:06obviously coming does it sound coming up
1:26:08the stairs do you know where they
1:26:18leave
1:26:22I I believe they went out the front door
1:26:25okay but I couldn't see anything I just
1:26:28it's what I heard it's what you're
1:26:30hearing what else do you hear next then
1:26:34I heard was the door closed I heard my
1:26:37father he ran up the stairs and all I
1:26:40could hear it was
1:26:43moaning
1:26:44yeah once I heard him starting to move I
1:26:47that's when I pulled up the phone and I
1:26:49was trying to call
1:26:51911 okay
1:26:57did you hear after you hear that's it
1:27:00let's go do you hear any more
1:27:01communication between the three
1:27:12guys okay I just I was just call on my
1:27:20mom okay so you're dialing 911 you've
1:27:23called the police
1:27:24you know you're on the phone with the
1:27:25dispatcher you're updating him as to
1:27:27what goes
1:27:31on and
1:27:33I I hear my dad going out the door and
1:27:36he's like yelling on the
1:27:39street okay and I'm calling for him but
1:27:41this dispatch lady I'm trying
1:27:49to so when the officers arrive
1:27:55how do you get
1:28:11untied do you remember at first they
1:28:14were all outside and I I was screaming
1:28:16for them
1:28:17yeah
1:28:20and finally someone heard me and they
1:28:23came up the stairs
1:28:29Years first they had to check all the
1:28:31rooms first but I just wanted them to
1:28:33get me out y I didn't want to be sitting
1:28:35there
1:28:43anymore so they how did they get you
1:28:49free they grabbed a pair of scissors
1:28:52from my room
1:28:56but the officer said to wait a few
1:28:57minutes cuz he didn't know how to how to
1:29:00do it procedure I just wanted to get
1:29:03out think it was you my
1:29:13dad he cut
1:29:15me he let me go but he he cut he cut the
1:29:28now you uh when you took out off your
1:29:31sweater to show me the demonstration
1:29:32there's still some marks on your arm are
1:29:35those the marks from the
1:29:37string no where are they
1:29:40from from before okay so history-wise
1:29:43we'll go into that okay
1:29:46so
1:29:48now as an event as to try and see this
1:29:53is the uh the little ep the little
1:29:56technique that we use to try and see if
1:29:58there's something during the course of
1:29:59what you've told me that boom I trigger
1:30:03something another memory okay we're
1:30:05going to
1:30:06start right now we're going to start at
1:30:08the point that you're being your the
1:30:11officers arrive okay and we're going
1:30:14backwards not nearly as I don't need you
1:30:17to go into the we're not going to be
1:30:18stopping here and going through to what
1:30:21about this and what about this it's you
1:30:23may come across something it's the re
1:30:25reverse chronology of what you just
1:30:28described okay leading us back to the
1:30:32time you're in upstairs talking to
1:30:35Edward so I want you to start right now
1:30:38with your police officers arrive and
1:30:40they're cutting you free and now let's
1:30:42start going backwards from that
1:31:12okay just don't want to
1:31:15see wrong
1:31:18things don't this is don't worry about
1:31:21saying wrong things because you'll be
1:31:22you'll be correcting them as you're move
1:31:23moving moving backwards okay it's a very
1:31:26well practiced technique to help in
1:31:28memories so especially in traumatic
1:31:39events so my dad was he had ran out the
1:31:43door
1:31:47yes and he was moaning
1:31:50[Music]
1:31:57and just before
1:31:59that they had left the the the people
1:32:02had left
1:32:28number one head
1:32:30head it's been too
1:32:33long let's
1:32:44go before that was a gun shot
1:32:53before that they were scolding my dad
1:32:55for lying cuz that there was more money
1:32:57and he wasn't telling them where it
1:33:18was before that
1:33:25they were going
1:33:30down you're doing great okay you're
1:33:33doing
1:33:39great just before that they were going
1:33:42down the
1:33:44stairs but I could just hear my parents
1:33:48footsteps and my
1:33:50mom so I don't know how many of them
1:33:52went down
1:33:55but I know for sure number one was
1:33:57upstairs with me while they were
1:33:59starting to go
1:34:01down and then number
1:34:03one that's when like he was taking off
1:34:07my glasses and that's when he went down
1:34:08the
1:34:10stairs say something
1:34:19[Music]
1:34:31before
1:34:36that they tied
1:34:47[Music]
1:34:50me before that number two was upstairs
1:34:52as well
1:34:55and he was helping number one timey the
1:35:00banister before that number one turned
1:35:03to number
1:35:04two and said go get I need get me this
1:35:08string go get
1:35:17cuz that's when number two went down the
1:35:19stairs and came back up with the string
1:35:35before
1:35:37that number one had taken me and told me
1:35:41to sit
1:35:42down the top of the
1:35:46stairs number two was still in the
1:35:48bedroom
1:36:17before that
1:36:39we were in my parents
1:36:40room and he was asking me about the
1:36:43wallet where's my dad's
1:36:52wallet don't remember for how they got
1:36:54the
1:37:05money don't worry about it keep going I
1:37:08don't remember how they got the
1:37:18money before that I was
1:37:21downstairs and they're looking for my
1:37:23mom's
1:37:27purse number three was asking about the
1:37:29wallet number two was looking for my
1:37:31mom's
1:37:34purse my mom kept standing up and
1:37:37sitting down and they pushed her
1:37:58for that I was in my
1:38:06room that's when he tied me
1:38:17up but before that I showed him the
1:38:21money before that
1:38:24I had heard them toss my parents room
1:38:26and that's when I looked out no the guy
1:38:29went down the stairs and then I looked
1:38:35out that's when he came he pulled out
1:38:38his gun and told me to sit on my
1:38:44bed before
1:38:46that I heard my
1:38:48mom tell my dad to come
1:38:52downstairs and that's when I told Ed I'd
1:38:55call him back and put my
1:38:58phone my phone in my
1:39:03back is that okay
1:39:06yes when you said um that you saw during
1:39:10this process you you heard the steps of
1:39:11the guy someone going downstairs did you
1:39:13hear your father going down the
1:39:16stairs at ever at that point in time
1:39:29I heard him get out of his
1:39:34room but then that's when I was telling
1:39:36Ed that I'd call him
1:39:38back he was responding to your mom's
1:39:40command
1:39:45yes
1:39:48okay in your kitchen
1:39:54there
1:39:55is uh rear sliding
1:39:59doors is there not in you're in the back
1:40:01area to get out to the back of your
1:40:02house is it sliding glass doors
1:40:08yes how is that normally how do you what
1:40:10is the normal position of of the blinds
1:40:13or or whatever when you during the day
1:40:16do you keep them covered or they exposed
1:40:18can you easily have access to get out to
1:40:20the backyard or do you have to open them
1:40:22like how is the normal
1:40:30routine it differs
1:40:34from it differs from time of day and
1:40:37time of year um my
1:40:48mom my mother likes to plant so in the
1:40:52daytime we have our blinds
1:40:54open
1:40:56um they're all the way out but they're
1:40:58open to let sunlight in and at night we
1:41:01close them because
1:41:05of our backyard
1:41:07neighbors
1:41:10okay the sliding glass
1:41:12door is it locked all the
1:41:16time
1:41:18occasionally it's forgotten to be
1:41:21locked but for the most part we do check
1:41:24it before we go to bed before everybody
1:41:27the last person is supposed to check
1:41:29everything before turning in but on some
1:41:31occasions it's how do you know that it's
1:41:33been unlocked when my mother goes out to
1:41:37water the plants the next morning it's
1:41:39it's open and she makes a comment about
1:41:41that she comments to my father that he
1:41:43had forgotten when he went out to water
1:41:46his grass and the night
1:41:48before what about your front door how do
1:41:51you what is that when you guys are home
1:41:54or when you guys are home in the house
1:41:57do you lock your front door or do you
1:41:59keep it or do you keep it
1:42:02unlocked occasionally it's left
1:42:06unlocked
1:42:10because the way our family is we have
1:42:12family that come over after dinner so
1:42:15sometimes we leave the door unlocked but
1:42:17it will always be locked before bed the
1:42:19last person going into bed the last
1:42:21person always locks it yes and you said
1:42:24something about sorry activates the
1:42:26alarm as
1:42:28well um we activate the alarm before we
1:42:30go or we leave the house so there's it's
1:42:33not activated when you're in the house
1:42:35and you're going to bed it's only when
1:42:36there's no one in the house
1:42:40yes
1:42:48um when was the last time that you went
1:42:51out through the back the backsliding
1:42:52glass door source that you
1:43:00remember oh while I'd
1:43:04say the only time I go back there is if
1:43:07I'm
1:43:11barbecuing um the occasion my mom needs
1:43:14help carrying
1:43:19a if she needs help carrying something
1:43:21heavy okay
1:43:25what about if strangers knock on your
1:43:31door whoever's downstairs normally goes
1:43:35to answer the door will they look out or
1:43:38will they just open the door no uh they
1:43:41tried to look through the sheerness of
1:43:42our
1:43:45curtain would you have you ever heard
1:43:47your mom or dad like if there's someone
1:43:49at the door who they don't recognize to
1:43:50go away and they won't open the door or
1:43:52will they all always open the door to
1:43:54find out who even if they don't
1:43:55recognize someone well they try to go as
1:43:57quietly as possible and if they don't
1:44:00like a telemarketer or something they
1:44:02just walk
1:44:04away
1:44:05okay so I think
1:44:09we've if there's something else that I
1:44:11can that'll that pops into my head while
1:44:13or when I go out to talk to them later
1:44:16if there's something else that they want
1:44:17to ask me I'll come back to it what I
1:44:20want to do now is I want to go into your
1:44:22p past
1:44:26okay and start talking about things that
1:44:29have been going on with
1:44:31you in in in relation to your life
1:44:36okay you know not I'm not going back to
1:44:38Childhood that's not my interest is uh
1:44:42obviously in the last few years is
1:44:44what's going on do you have a
1:44:47boyfriend I had a boyfriend but I don't
1:44:50have one what what's your what what was
1:44:52your boyfriend's name Daniel Daniel what
1:44:55Wong tell me about your relationship
1:44:57with you and
1:44:59Daniel it was a really tough
1:45:03one
1:45:05um we went to high school together he
1:45:09helped me through a really difficult
1:45:10time in high school um when I have
1:45:15asthma but it it wasn't a concern uh it
1:45:19was only a concern when I was
1:45:20younger um but when I went over ref to
1:45:24Europe um a lot of sick people were
1:45:27smoking cigarettes and it acted up over
1:45:30there and he took care of me over there
1:45:31when did you go to
1:45:34Europe
1:45:362003 okay and how long were you there
1:45:42for under two weeks I think okay so this
1:45:46is 2003 when you and Danny were started
1:45:48dating no uh later on in 2003 we were
1:45:51just friends at that point okay what
1:45:54grade were you in at that point 11
1:45:5711 so how does your relationship with
1:46:00the Danny develop where where does it go
1:46:02and how long does it
1:46:03last it lasted about 6
1:46:07years um it began in the summer of 2003
1:46:12before my grade 12
1:46:14year uh we were just really good friends
1:46:17and I guess it just happened like we
1:46:20just started going out well saying that
1:46:23we were going out
1:46:25but um I didn't really get to see him
1:46:28much let's talk about that why didn't
1:46:31you get the chance to see him
1:46:33much I wasn't allowed to have a
1:46:35boyfriend and that was when you were
1:46:3818 I was 17 17 turning in your 18th Year
1:46:43may grade 11 or going to going to grade
1:46:4612
1:46:47okay and uh so who was against you
1:46:50having a boyfriend my father your father
1:46:52father how was your mother in
1:46:56this she took a backseat to his opinion
1:47:02um she would tell me that I got to find
1:47:05someone who was devoted to me but at
1:47:09that time she just my father was the one
1:47:11that enforced the rules and what were
1:47:13the issues your father had with a
1:47:14boyfriend was it Danny in particular or
1:47:16or was it just a boy just any boy at
1:47:20that point so
1:47:23what happens how how are you saying that
1:47:24you're not allowed to see this what what
1:47:26uh I know I know that there's certain
1:47:30ways that you can still get around your
1:47:31father not allowing you to see it when
1:47:34in grade 12 uh we went to school
1:47:36together he transferred out um but he'd
1:47:39come over uh to our original high school
1:47:43and he'd come see me okay and once in a
1:47:46while I'd go and skip class and go see
1:47:49him so you were seeing you were dating
1:47:52him essentially without your parents
1:47:53knowledge and consent yes what would
1:47:56they have done to you if they found out
1:47:58and did they find
1:47:59out not in high school okay so you
1:48:04finish high school and then what do you
1:48:05do when you finish High
1:48:10School I was I wanted to
1:48:14do
1:48:16kinesiology but my my father was very
1:48:18adamant on doing something in the
1:48:21medical field that was a little bit
1:48:25more um in his opinion
1:48:29more like a more successful I guess you
1:48:33can say um he knew I didn't have the
1:48:35stomach for being a doctor um so he
1:48:38wanted me to become a pharmacist okay
1:48:41did you go to school for pharmacy did
1:48:42you get into University for
1:48:44pharmacy so if you're you finish your
1:48:47grade 12 you go to Oi your OIC year like
1:48:51grade 12 is you finish your OIC year I
1:48:53don't have o i didn't have o i finished
1:48:55my grade 12 and then where where do you
1:48:58what do you do for the next few years
1:48:59while your dads want you to get into the
1:49:01medical field what do you do I was
1:49:03trying to get into
1:49:05piano what school I I was still taking
1:49:09classes at a conserv like a a school but
1:49:12it's still recognized in the community
1:49:14as a teacher's license through the Royal
1:49:16conservator yes okay
1:49:19so how is this interaction how is this
1:49:22going going with your dad how is the how
1:49:24is your home life with the you're not
1:49:27now not living up to his expectations
1:49:30you he didn't no I lied to him what did
1:49:32you lie to him what did you tell him
1:49:34that I was going to
1:49:35school
1:49:37for uh for just Prem uh not Premed sorry
1:49:41science for science Bachelor of
1:49:43Science you would have had bills for
1:49:46school how was how was that coming up
1:49:48how are these bills being paid for for
1:49:49University that you weren't going to I
1:49:51was working at East Side Mary
1:49:54and I took care of myself so financially
1:49:59my father was
1:50:00never he never took hand in bills so he
1:50:05didn't know anything about bills did
1:50:07your mom know that you weren't going to
1:50:08University no so both your parents
1:50:11thought you had gone to University yes
1:50:14okay and
1:50:16um how long did that how long did they
1:50:19still to this point in time think that
1:50:20you had gone to University for for
1:50:22pharmace for
1:50:23Sciences
1:50:26yes and how did you feel about that how
1:50:29did you feel about having to lie to your
1:50:31parents I felt guilty but every time I
1:50:33tried to bring it
1:50:38up there was just so
1:50:41much so much
1:50:45expectation did you have any resentment
1:50:47towards him for
1:50:49this I chose what I chose
1:50:53um but in the end I chose my
1:50:56family okay so now you're not allowed to
1:51:00see boys how do you continue your
1:51:02relationship while you're supposed to be
1:51:04at University working at Eide Marios are
1:51:05you working during the day at Eide
1:51:07Marios um sometimes but not all the
1:51:10time so how do how do you maintain this
1:51:14relationship with uh with Danny um I'd
1:51:17bust down to see him or my parents would
1:51:19drive me down to Toronto and and they
1:51:23thought I was getting going to school
1:51:25but I'd go see him and I'd come back
1:51:27what school did they think you're going
1:51:28to Ron okay
1:51:32um was Daniel aware of what was going on
1:51:35in your with the issues in your life
1:51:37with your parents not at first but
1:51:39eventually he found out okay and
1:51:45um what would your parents do find out
1:51:47did they ever find out that you were
1:51:48dating Danny Daniel eventually yes well
1:51:51how long into the relationship was that
1:51:53say five years five years so that brings
1:51:56you up to 2008 or 2009 2008 2007
1:52:032008 and how do they find
1:52:07out my mother saw him dropping me off at
1:52:11the loc at Pacific Mall where they come
1:52:13to pick me up and how did that go
1:52:18over not well explain to me what not
1:52:22well means
1:52:26me my
1:52:28mother
1:52:30she said At first she was like not
1:52:35supportive but she said you need to tell
1:52:37me and she basically gave me the um the
1:52:43sex talk which basically was one moment
1:52:45could ruin your entire
1:52:48life um but once my father found out
1:52:52without even knowing him he
1:52:55automatically put judgment what kind of
1:52:58judgment did your father pass on
1:53:00him he blamed my lying
1:53:04and
1:53:06even
1:53:08racial um
1:53:10profiling on him and what does that mean
1:53:13I don't know about the racial profiling
1:53:15um he is half Filipino half Chinese yes
1:53:18and my
1:53:20father Associated him with Phil p and
1:53:23said that you know he wasn't a good
1:53:26match for me he wasn't going anywhere in
1:53:29life and um
1:53:33that he wouldn't be able to support a
1:53:37family so tell me about about
1:53:41Daniel uh We've interviewed Daniel okay
1:53:45so tell me about
1:53:51Daniel e
1:55:07he was I believe uh selling selling
1:55:12selling some marijuana I believe okay
1:55:15you weren't aware that he was up to this
1:55:17type of business is that what you're is
1:55:19that what you're saying to me yes so um
1:55:23when he
1:55:26is when your parents find out uh what
1:55:29happens to you at
1:55:32home they pretty much uh make sure that
1:55:38I wouldn't contact him again and how do
1:55:40they do that they take away my cell
1:55:42phone and restrict internet
1:55:46access like they have to be in the room
1:55:48or not at
1:55:50all do you have a
1:55:53curfew if I go out with a friend that
1:55:56they know I have to be home before 9:
1:55:59before 9:00 yes and is that even up
1:56:02until
1:56:04Monday did you have a curfew up until
1:56:06Monday uh technically but I don't I
1:56:09haven't gone out for a while and why is
1:56:11it that you haven't gone out for a
1:56:14while because they gave me an
1:56:16ultimatum to either choose Daniel or to
1:56:19choose them about a year and a half ago
1:56:23or two about a year and a half ago and I
1:56:26chose to stay home with my
1:56:28family but even though he had moved on
1:56:32uh we still wanted to be
1:56:35friends um we went through a lot I was
1:56:38there for him and he was there for me
1:56:41when we needed each other so I whenever
1:56:45I could I would sneak a phone call here
1:56:46a sneak a phone call there um I'd ask a
1:56:49friend of mine to pick me up and to to
1:56:52take me to see him and then take me back
1:56:56who is that
1:56:57friend uh Gary Gary Gary Gibson
1:57:02Gibson uh I met Gary through Daniel and
1:57:06uh
1:57:07he he picked me up and took me to see
1:57:10Daniel and he made sure I got home
1:57:12afterwards so tell me about uh how come
1:57:15your parents allow you to speak to
1:57:19Edward or to Adrian in fact allow Adrian
1:57:21into the house house Adrien has been a
1:57:24friend of mine since uh beginning of
1:57:27high
1:57:28school um
1:57:31he my parents agree with
1:57:35his how do I explain this he went to
1:57:38school for
1:57:40engineering um he has a job and his
1:57:45mother was is a piano teacher as well
1:57:48like myself so in their eyes he had like
1:57:53a well a well-rounded
1:57:56life and because he didn't he took me
1:57:59out once like once in a while but not
1:58:03really but because he he has a car of
1:58:06his own so he comes over therefore they
1:58:09were able to interact with him and
1:58:11accepted him okay what about
1:58:14Edward um Edward was an old coworker of
1:58:18mine um Edward only met my mom once at a
1:58:21gym
1:58:22at when we went to the gym um I
1:58:25introduced him to my mom but uh
1:58:28he he only stops by when my parents are
1:58:32not home for about like an hour or so
1:58:35just to catch up but I haven't gone out
1:58:38to actually like we talk on the phone
1:58:40but that's pretty much I tried to meet
1:58:43him at the gym but that's so for the
1:58:46last year and a half since you chose the
1:58:48ultimatum was given to you as you in
1:58:50your words it's either Daniel and or
1:58:54your family yes and you say that you
1:58:57chose your family and you stayed home
1:58:59what have you been when when you say I
1:59:00stayed home what is your routine tell me
1:59:03for the last year and a half what what
1:59:05have you been doing I have been
1:59:07continuing my piano studies and my
1:59:10parents um enrolled me back into school
1:59:14into college into college at first I
1:59:17didn't have enough marks to get into the
1:59:19program I wanted so I had to do one year
1:59:21of uh like refresh a course of a
1:59:24calculus High School Credit and they
1:59:26never said to
1:59:29you you can get in and graduate with a a
1:59:33science degree but you can't take that
1:59:36and now get in they never question you
1:59:37about college now that you can't you
1:59:39don't have the marks to get into college
1:59:41how did you get around
1:59:44that I lied to them and said that
1:59:46calculus wasn't a big thing when I first
1:59:49applied uh one science but now calculus
1:59:52is more of a mandatory
1:59:55course what
1:59:58um and when was this happening that you
2:00:00were going back to school uh recent uh I
2:00:03went back last summer what's which
2:00:07college and I went to high school from
2:00:09school program um it was at
2:00:14BR believe it's Bray buffay buff um on
2:00:18Steals and Bay and you graduated with
2:00:21that or You'
2:00:22I completed the credit uh at upgrading
2:00:25my mark and have you did you apply to
2:00:26college yes and you were accepted I
2:00:29accepted for January yes at which
2:00:31college uh Centennial College okay in
2:00:34what program uh bio bio techn
2:00:39biotechnology engineering
2:00:42okay
2:00:45so the last year and a half you've been
2:00:48doing your piano studies yes
2:00:52what is your routine like daily routine
2:00:54for the last year and a half when you
2:00:56say that I chose my family I chose to
2:00:57stay home well at first I continued
2:01:02phone contact with Daniel but uh that
2:01:05only lasted
2:01:07about um one time I like I told you Gary
2:01:10came to pick me up to go see Daniel and
2:01:13I got
2:01:14caught and
2:01:16um that's when they took away my cell
2:01:20phone and they said that they drive me
2:01:24places and so pretty much I wake up I do
2:01:27my piano studies um I may go see my
2:01:31teacher for
2:01:33lessons um at first they took me but
2:01:35then uh once my teacher was like yeah
2:01:38she's with me um I was able to go and
2:01:41see him at his house um once a week uh
2:01:45sometimes it was once every other week
2:01:47if he was busy and then I had um another
2:01:51studies at
2:01:52a place called Euro music for the actual
2:01:55pedagogy course which is the actual
2:01:56teaching course mhm and uh I went to
2:02:00those two classes once a week as well um
2:02:03and pretty much it was home help out
2:02:06with housework
2:02:08and practice my piano
2:02:11and just wait for the college
2:02:13application uh a college acceptance and
2:02:16did you go out were you allowed to go
2:02:17out at night I don't go out no the only
2:02:21time I went out was
2:02:24last time I went out was for
2:02:30my for my one month uh my um my birthday
2:02:36and I was able uh week ago to go see my
2:02:39friend on on the night of Halloween my
2:02:42mom went out um to a dance uh dance
2:02:45thing sorry it was Saturday night not
2:02:47Halloween night it was Halloween weekend
2:02:49Saturday night um my friend topaz and I
2:02:52had made plans but my grandfather we
2:02:55wanted to go skating because I love to
2:02:58skate And since they know topaz and they
2:03:02like they confirmed that she was in fact
2:03:05going with me to skating and they have
2:03:07her number to call her to make sure I
2:03:09was there um and that I'd call when I
2:03:12got to her house um I got there and
2:03:17because I had let my friends know that
2:03:19my grandfather was ill and that I wasn't
2:03:21100% sure
2:03:22she did she had a child so she couldn't
2:03:23make plans to get uh her child a
2:03:27babysitter so we just stayed at her
2:03:29house with her
2:03:31husband for
2:03:32about maybe an hour and
2:03:37then this other phone that Danny that
2:03:40Daniel gets to you how long do you are
2:03:43you able to keep that from your parents'
2:03:46attention and how long are you in how
2:03:49long do you have that phone
2:03:53three months You' had it for 3 months
2:03:56the last 3 months three two months and
2:03:59when do you switch from just using the
2:04:01phone to just pulling the SIM card using
2:04:03it just using Sim pulling the SIM card
2:04:05texting in and then taking it
2:04:09back putting it back in my jacket pocket
2:04:12okay so this SIM card that you say was
2:04:15in your jacket pocket Which jacket is it
2:04:17that you're talking about um I have a
2:04:20black jacket with the furry Hood yes
2:04:24that I use in the fall and the last time
2:04:27you knew about it it was inside that
2:04:29jacket jacket yes and you believe you
2:04:31would believe there's no reason why it
2:04:32wouldn't still be there yes okay and
2:04:35where would that jacket be
2:04:37located either hanging in my room or
2:04:40hanging uh behind uh by the garage the
2:04:45door mud room area what we call the mud
2:04:46room area the garage door is it a
2:04:48laundry room where there's where you
2:04:49come in from the garage yeah okay not a
2:04:52laundry room but it's like a little Nook
2:04:54little Nook there's no the laundry is
2:04:55downstairs we took the laundry
2:04:57downstairs
2:04:58okay
2:05:00um Danny Danny and and um his activities
2:05:06his his drug related activities did you
2:05:09ever engage or assist him in this in
2:05:12this practice no I told him I did not
2:05:15want anything to do with
2:05:17it um it's a tough question right is
2:05:22that are you involved in any type of
2:05:24illegal
2:05:26activity that would draw the attention
2:05:28of these type of people to come to your
2:05:30house looking for something I have
2:05:33never what about your
2:05:35parents not to my knowledge well not to
2:05:39your knowledge like are your parents is
2:05:43there any source of money coming into
2:05:44your house that is unaccounted
2:05:47for
2:05:48no would it be something that your
2:05:51parents would engage in gambling or
2:05:54illegal illegal drug activity no well
2:05:57not I helped my mother with all the
2:05:59bills and everything and nothing she
2:06:01never doesn't have like anything how new
2:06:05was that basement like the setup of the
2:06:09basement graduate in
2:06:132004 we moved in in
2:06:162004 I believe we moved in for about a
2:06:19year so I'd say either
2:06:222005 or 2006 they moved you guys moved
2:06:26in there they R renovated yes and um and
2:06:30at that time the basement was completed
2:06:32yes were your parents working at both at
2:06:34that
2:06:37time when we first moved into 2004 my
2:06:40father was an employ uh he had got laid
2:06:43off from Magna yep my mother had
2:06:46transferred up to a place in New
2:06:49Market um then my father found the job
2:06:52at uh where he's he was currently
2:06:55working at um coob and
2:06:57St and then I forgot the
2:07:03year my mother got laid
2:07:06off believe in
2:07:102008 or so and she's been looking for a
2:07:14job and been at home
2:07:18now um
2:07:25after talking to Daniel and when's the
2:07:27last time you you you text message or
2:07:29communicated with him was when my
2:07:31grandfather was
2:07:33Ill have you have you been experiencing
2:07:36anything what you would call in the last
2:07:39little while of any type of threats or
2:07:42threatening behavior yes tell me about
2:07:45that um his I don't well he says it's
2:07:50just a friend but everyone says it's his
2:07:53girlfriend um she has messaged me
2:07:57telling me to back off to leave Daniel
2:08:00alone and he's messaged me and he's like
2:08:04is that you calling but I wasn't calling
2:08:07or I be on the phone with him and he's
2:08:08like your other my Rogers line cuz I
2:08:11called him on the the phone that he gave
2:08:13me yes and he'd say that my Rogers line
2:08:16was calling him and when I looked into
2:08:19it it was like on the on my bills those
2:08:23phone calls were made but I know I
2:08:25didn't make
2:08:27them so I I couldn't explain
2:08:30it and I did get uh a letter in the mail
2:08:35saying that uh you're a dead person
2:08:39walking now why didn't you tell me about
2:08:41that last when I spoke to you the other
2:08:46day I everything had just happened I
2:08:49wasn't
2:08:52was it just simply a letter yes it was
2:08:55uh cut
2:08:57out where is that letter it's garbage
2:09:02it's in the garbage
2:09:05yes I didn't think too much of it at
2:09:08that time and what did you equated it
2:09:11to just
2:09:13jealousy you stating it to the the
2:09:16friend or the girlfriend well I don't
2:09:18want to like I don't know 100% % so I
2:09:21don't want to point fingers why so if
2:09:25you're not 100% and you don't want to
2:09:27point fingers why do you believe it's
2:09:29her because she has personally messaged
2:09:32me on Facebook telling me that I'm
2:09:34stupid and to back off and to leave
2:09:36Daniel
2:09:38alone okay and sometimes when I text him
2:09:43um she texts me using his phone telling
2:09:46me that he's with his girlfriend
2:09:49Christine and to leave him alone
2:09:54the
2:09:56um is there something that happened to
2:09:59you that you never disclosed to the
2:10:01police
2:10:02before
2:10:05um that is something I like to him about
2:10:08okay tell me about that um I told him I
2:10:13was
2:10:13raped but I was just very depressed
2:10:18and sorry this is very embarrassing um
2:10:21you haven't reported it to the police
2:10:23right this is a this is an interaction
2:10:25between you and an ex-boyfriend okay so
2:10:27you're you're not in any trouble for
2:10:28this and it's important that we clear it
2:10:30up because he's telling us stuff yes and
2:10:33then we're we're coming back to you so
2:10:35but this is something I lied to him
2:10:36about okay um and why did and you say
2:10:39you were depressed and and when did this
2:10:41happen when did this when did you tell
2:10:43him about
2:10:45this maybe a year ago a year ago and
2:10:48what was it that you told him
2:10:51that um someone came to the door and
2:10:55when I went to open the door uh they
2:10:57pushed me down and rap
2:10:59me did they did you give descriptions
2:11:01did you provide descriptions to them
2:11:03about it to him about
2:11:06it I might have I I don't remember
2:11:09exactly what I said okay um but you're
2:11:13telling me to my face that this never
2:11:16happened this never happened okay so
2:11:19it's not this isn't something that we
2:11:21need to be looking at is something
2:11:22that's tied to this no this is that was
2:11:25my lie to him okay for
2:11:29attention now did he what did what was
2:11:32his reaction to
2:11:34that report
2:11:37it but it wasn't real so I didn't report
2:11:40it okay now
2:11:47um would did D did you ever would did
2:11:49you ever have a figure if Danny if
2:11:51Daniel stopped being a drug dealer or
2:11:53engaged or is he still dealing with that
2:11:56again this is not criminal it's more in
2:11:58lines of you know what would
2:12:00link someone to think that they're
2:12:03coming to your house for a large Quant
2:12:04for money which is an obvious question I
2:12:09don't I've asked him what he's up to and
2:12:11he just says running like doing
2:12:13runs but I don't ask him into detail so
2:12:17when he says he's doing runs you're
2:12:18equating that to he's running still
2:12:20running drugs
2:12:21running errands running drugs seeing
2:12:24people I you just didn't ask him I just
2:12:27kind of went blind ear cuz I'm not with
2:12:29him okay did you ever receive um again
2:12:33coming from we're going to ask it did
2:12:34you ever receive any other type of
2:12:37threatening text messages that you know
2:12:40more than just words of what a person
2:12:42says uh you know don't see him or don't
2:12:44did you ever re receive anything that
2:12:47was threatening yeah I did get um
2:12:51some
2:12:53but I couldn't uh what's the word I'm
2:12:56looking for it said that we have people
2:13:00that can erase this
2:13:01message
2:13:03um but it was just words it was just
2:13:06just stay away what were the words just
2:13:09stay away stay away Chris Chrissy and
2:13:12Deno one one life one Destiny or
2:13:16something like
2:13:17that so it was more in line with Danny
2:13:20and this more in line with a
2:13:21relationship pretty much just leave like
2:13:23for me to stay away there was never any
2:13:27threat to threat to you from any other
2:13:30Anonymous it always seems to you to have
2:13:34the heir of Danny's girlfriend or friend
2:13:36that's sending these threats just he
2:13:39says that is not her but from the all
2:13:43the messages are pretty much just to
2:13:44leave him alone so he can be happy okay
2:13:48but there's no uh there's no phone
2:13:50number that these things are coming back
2:13:52from no being sent from
2:13:55no um did you ever I know it's absurd
2:13:58but I couldn't explain it no well I
2:14:01don't I with the technology today
2:14:05anything is possible I I'm not I'm not
2:14:07I'd never be able to to look you in the
2:14:09face and say that's not possible
2:14:11because what kids can do with computers
2:14:14and do with technology I you know
2:14:16anything in my opinion is now possible
2:14:18but it was just words it was never
2:14:22more than that anything to the effect of
2:14:23seeing bang bang
2:14:26bang to me yes no are you aware of
2:14:29someone else getting a message like that
2:14:31Daniel said that he got messages saying
2:14:33fun fun fun bang bang
2:14:35bang and what did he ever equate that
2:14:39to did he tell
2:14:41you he just said these messages
2:14:43basically kept telling him to make sure
2:14:45I stayed away from him and to make uh
2:14:48that girl
2:14:49happy okay and that they knew knew what
2:14:51he was up
2:14:53to they even said that they knew like
2:14:58what are like I text him something and
2:15:01for some reason they knew that I texted
2:15:02him and that they knew that I called him
2:15:05stuff like that do you have
2:15:10um have you ever received other than
2:15:13that letter that other thing I also made
2:15:16up a bullet in the mail that I made that
2:15:19up and how long ago was that
2:15:22just a few months ago okay and was that
2:15:25an attention grabber for him again yes
2:15:28you still have feelings for Daniel don't
2:15:29you yes okay so you're having trouble
2:15:32with that you're having trouble getting
2:15:34over the fact that the relationship is
2:15:36over because of the terms of how it
2:15:38happened I've accepted that that it's
2:15:40over but I still want to take care of
2:15:44him yeah but unfortunately I made a
2:15:47decision and I need I had to stick by it
2:15:50your relationship with Daniel was broken
2:15:52up because of your parents ultimatum not
2:15:54because you didn't care for him anymore
2:15:56yes that's that's an obvious what you
2:15:58can say right because you still have
2:16:00feelings and you're still trying to
2:16:01trigger them with the bullet you know
2:16:04even just that that are these tech text
2:16:06messages are receiving are they
2:16:08fictitious are you making that up
2:16:10no 100% yes okay now the letter you
2:16:15received is it fictitious or did he make
2:16:18it up or or sorry is it fictitious or is
2:16:20it is it real it's real it's real and
2:16:23how sorry no it just happened like
2:16:26before most of this stuff happened so I
2:16:28just brushed it
2:16:29aside okay so it happened before what
2:16:31most of what stuff happened most of like
2:16:34before I knew about her and before I
2:16:37knew like before she messaged me ever
2:16:40okay
2:16:42now how often did you use this other
2:16:45phone you said you said it was back when
2:16:47your father that's the last time you
2:16:49used it but how many times you you know
2:16:51like from the last year maybe like once
2:16:53a day once a day or
2:16:56usually um yeah once a day who was
2:17:00paying for that Daniel Daniel was paying
2:17:02for
2:17:06that um so the the uh incident those two
2:17:11incidents that you made up the bullet
2:17:13and the and the the being rap those'll
2:17:15never happen
2:17:19no is there anything else you can think
2:17:21of in this were you dating anyone else
2:17:24did you see anyone else during these
2:17:26during during this year and a half no
2:17:28they off uh dating no no no I just I saw
2:17:33Adrian cuz he came he came over but I
2:17:36wasn't seeing him like romantically or
2:17:38anything um I saw just my uh tight knit
2:17:44group of friends which are uh my
2:17:47girlfriend's topaz topaz yes topaz's
2:17:50last name name chu topz chu uh her
2:17:53husband chii Tong and where okay we
2:17:56won't say where they live CU it's being
2:17:57videoed but I need to get an idea if we
2:17:59haven't spoken to him we'd like to speak
2:18:00to them okay who else um Adrian CH he
2:18:06lives in uh he lives away but sometimes
2:18:09he comes into town and he'll come to my
2:18:12house and ask my parents to take me out
2:18:14just for a coffee to catch up about half
2:18:15hour and then he takes me back home okay
2:18:18that's that's three who else is T Adrian
2:18:21um Adrian who we talked Ovitz Ovitz You'
2:18:26spoken to we've spoken to already Edward
2:18:28uh Pacific and and so he's in that Loop
2:18:32of tight net friend uh no he's uh
2:18:34separate okay who else is in this other
2:18:36tight net group of friends you um well
2:18:39we're it tight but I don't speak to them
2:18:41often um Cecilia
2:18:43Pang and uh drum we fall in and out like
2:18:47periodically like maybe a couple months
2:18:49where we talk almost every week and then
2:18:52sometimes we go a month or two without
2:18:53talking Jerome
2:18:55Leu okay um so that's Adrian Adrien topz
2:19:03chii
2:19:05Cecilia myself and um there's one more
2:19:10uh
2:19:10Carson
2:19:13uh I forgot his last
2:19:16name he's more like a f he him and
2:19:20myself aren't that close but he does
2:19:22hang around all of us if we go to um for
2:19:26example when my friend had a baby we
2:19:28were all there together now what about I
2:19:31again apologize for the name Gary Gibson
2:19:34Gibbons or Gibson Gibson Gibson yes um
2:19:37where is he in this I haven't T spoken
2:19:39to him in a long time I'd say about a
2:19:42year but prior to that uh we spoke quite
2:19:45a bit um yeah but he was your link to
2:19:48Dany right to get to Danny drop you off
2:19:51well he he spoke to he'd call Daniel if
2:19:53I like if he didn't answer my calls and
2:19:56um we hung out on our own as well what
2:19:59do you know about Daniel's girlfriend
2:20:02Christine um the only thing I know is
2:20:04that she's living with her
2:20:06father um when we were in high school uh
2:20:09she lost her
2:20:11mother um I believe she has a
2:20:14child and I don't know where the father
2:20:17is in that okay um Daniels told me that
2:20:21this is just what Daniel has told me
2:20:23that uh she's going through a custody
2:20:26battle and uh that every time I ask him
2:20:30like are you what are you doing he's
2:20:32like making runs with
2:20:33Christine so making runs with Christine
2:20:37yeah and I'm sorry when you say what
2:20:40runs would you know for me listening to
2:20:42making a run are you making would you
2:20:45draw the inference that that's back to
2:20:46the drug business I would but I kind of
2:20:50I didn't go more into that don't go more
2:20:53into it what do you what do you take
2:20:54that as as just hearing it at face value
2:20:57that he was going to meet somebody for
2:20:59drugs or and Christine's along for the
2:21:02ride I was told like in his words that
2:21:05he was the one taking her to go see
2:21:08people that she
2:21:09knew that she knew yes okay and that
2:21:14everything was at her house or something
2:21:16like
2:21:17that okay
2:21:21I want you to sit tight do you want me
2:21:23to get you some water yes please okay I
2:21:25want you to sit tight I'm just going to
2:21:26go talk to uh to Deborah she's Deb
2:21:29glading she's been monitoring and I'm
2:21:30also going to talk to the primary
2:21:31investigator okay um we're going to get
2:21:34you some water and and we're sort of
2:21:37moving through this this is great okay I
2:21:39appreciate the fact that you were honest
2:21:41with me to tell me that these things
2:21:42were made up okay it's very important I
2:21:45can't lie right and you can't because it
2:21:48it well if you if you were raped and
2:21:50received bullets those are some pretty
2:21:52significant threats right I understand
2:21:55okay um there was also one other thing
2:21:59um we were getting private phone
2:22:02calls um at my house as well I didn't
2:22:05never told my brother cuz he was at
2:22:07school yeah um when we picked up they'd
2:22:11always hang
2:22:12up and one time my father had picked up
2:22:18and like I said Mondays my mother mother
2:22:20would go dancing yes and when this one
2:22:25time I picked up the phone with my
2:22:27father was already on the phone and
2:22:29there was this woman on the other line
2:22:30and I don't know who it was and in they
2:22:33were speaking Chinese which
2:22:35is a little bit off for me because my
2:22:38father's Chinese isn't isn't his first
2:22:41language
2:22:43okay and uh my father doesn't even know
2:22:45I was on the line um but this woman was
2:22:48saying you have to come over right away
2:22:50right away you have to come now and my
2:22:53father kept saying I can't come over no
2:22:56and she's like I don't care you have to
2:22:58come
2:22:59now um like I said he still to this day
2:23:02doesn't know that I heard that
2:23:04conversation and um he when he
2:23:09went uh down the stairs to see me cuz I
2:23:12was in the main on the main floor he was
2:23:13upstairs when he answered the
2:23:15phone he was like I'm going to go and uh
2:23:19my cousin Michelle
2:23:21um she said I'm going to go to
2:23:22Michelle's house to I believe their tap
2:23:25was running or he had to he's a handyman
2:23:28with housework so uh they asked him to
2:23:30fix it but I believe I don't remember
2:23:32where they were they were out and I
2:23:34remember cuz I was uh I believe this is
2:23:37during the summer of this past year 2010
2:23:40yes like summer of 2010 and uh me and
2:23:44Michelle we went to we go to the gym
2:23:46together so uh she had mentioned that
2:23:49day that she
2:23:51had I I'm sorry I don't remember what
2:23:54but she had an errand to run with her
2:23:55mother and I was like I think it was a
2:23:57doctor's appointment or something and I
2:23:59told my dad that I believe they're out
2:24:00they're not home and he's like I'm going
2:24:02to go so he left and when he left um I
2:24:08had called my my aunt had I believe my
2:24:10aunt had called me back or I had called
2:24:11her somehow we connected with each other
2:24:14and they said that he uh they were not
2:24:15home yet but they're on their way they
2:24:17would be there in about half
2:24:19hour by that my father never came home
2:24:22and my father says he was driving around
2:24:25their
2:24:26block waiting for them but when I
2:24:29confronted him I said uh I thought they
2:24:31were they said that they weren't home
2:24:33and he's like I was driving around the
2:24:34block but when I had I didn't know how
2:24:37to process this and so I confided and
2:24:39Michelle when we're at the gym and she
2:24:42said that when she came home she did
2:24:45Drive uh cuz they have um her garage is
2:24:49in the back of her house mhm so there's
2:24:51like a streetway that's just garages and
2:24:54when my father goes over he likes to use
2:24:56the back door and knocks on the door in
2:24:58the back door cuz it's convenient
2:24:59because everyone's in the back of the
2:25:01house usually with a
2:25:02kitchen um so she said that she ran like
2:25:04she drove in two circles before she
2:25:08drove around to check before uh she went
2:25:10in but my father was never there does
2:25:13does Michelle speak Chinese yes um yes
2:25:18yes she doeses is she your aunt this is
2:25:20your your cousin is Michelle yes my
2:25:21cousin Michelle yes and your aunt's name
2:25:23is
2:25:27UHA and uh so did was your father ever
2:25:30at that house eventually she said that
2:25:32he did come over and he helped them out
2:25:35and came back home but when you listened
2:25:37on the phone line did you recognize the
2:25:39female as being Michelle or or it was
2:25:41not it was not her and her mother I know
2:25:43that but it was a voice I've never heard
2:25:45before a lady's voice that I've never
2:25:47heard before and um like I said these
2:25:51phone calls were happening periodically
2:25:53but every time we answered they they'd
2:25:54hang up on us meaning you or your mom
2:25:57yes cuz my mother and I had voiced it
2:25:59and my my we we voiced it and uh a few
2:26:04days later I was home by myself and I
2:26:07got a private call and I didn't hear
2:26:10them click like hang up clicking so I
2:26:13yelled in Chinese do not call this
2:26:16number ever again and they called
2:26:18probably once after that and never
2:26:20returned like the private call stopped
2:26:23and so when did this stop when did this
2:26:25happen and when is you said the summer
2:26:26is when that by the end of the summer
2:26:28the summer is August September like late
2:26:32August early September and is this the
2:26:34to the house line yes and what's the
2:26:36houseline phone number
2:26:3895477
2:26:413867
2:26:42okay okay sit tight is there any other
2:26:46any other incidents that jog your memory
2:26:53any other boyfriends in between this
2:26:55time period
2:26:58no okay sit tight let me get you some
2:27:00water let me ask some questions okay if
2:27:02you want to stand up and walk around I
2:27:03understand it's not we're not telling
2:27:04you to sit tight literally but it may be
2:27:07a couple of minutes okay um okay what do
2:27:10you need to go to the washroom no I just
2:27:12I don't like being by myself right now
2:27:13I'm going to leave the door open a
2:27:14little bit okay is that does that work
2:27:16for you okay and remember right through
2:27:19that glass you can actually I don't know
2:27:20see her but that's where she's sitting
2:27:22so you're actually you're you're just
2:27:23she's just in another room but she's a
2:27:25part of this room okay
2:27:49okay
2:28:19for
2:28:49for for
2:29:54it's just
2:29:59me feeling okay
2:30:03still everything's going okay all right
2:30:07do you need to do you need a bathroom
2:30:09break yes okay let me just clear the
2:30:12hallway and then I'll escort you out
2:30:14okay
2:30:48okay
2:30:56[Music]
2:31:18for
2:31:48e
2:32:18for e
2:33:15go back in going to just stand around
2:33:16here do you want to just wait out here
2:33:18or do you want to just wait inside but
2:33:20you can just stand up it's up to you I'm
2:33:22just
2:33:23uh okay we'll just wait by the door then
2:33:26that's fine you
2:33:27could not I'm just a little Ratt nothing
2:33:31okay yeah you're doing fine I'm just
2:33:33trying my best you're doing good you're
2:33:36doing
2:33:45good are you
2:33:47hungry no no
2:33:54the choices I've made haven't been the
2:33:56best
2:33:58just you know
2:34:02what it's just part of
2:34:04life I mean it's it's you know we have
2:34:08we
2:34:09learn and you know me making mistakes
2:34:12from making mistakes and
2:34:19being honest it's
2:34:44just it's okay
2:34:53of those
2:34:54things some of those things my parents
2:34:58don't know yet so it's just I know you
2:35:00know what can't worry about
2:35:04that can't focus on that I you did what
2:35:07you had to do right and and it was
2:35:09something that you felt that you needed
2:35:10to do at the time
2:35:33just for a little bit until that way is
2:35:35I won't close the door too much
2:35:48okay for
2:36:48okay for
2:37:36you're okay right you're okay
2:37:49just I'm just going over everything like
2:37:52pieces
2:37:55and just I'm just going it through
2:37:58everything and I
2:38:00just it's just like pieces here and
2:38:03pieces there and I don't I don't want to
2:38:07say something wrong or like just cuz I
2:38:11think I'm overthinking everything and
2:38:12it's just like
2:38:14am I don't think you can
2:38:19I mean the truth is the truth right it's
2:38:21not you know and it's not going to be
2:38:22wrong no okay it's it is it is what it
2:38:26is
2:38:28and no just like with the details and
2:38:30everything like I
2:38:32just I want to get it right so like
2:38:34everything could
2:38:36be everything could be right but it's
2:38:40just like it's pieces
2:38:42and yeah but I mean then you know you
2:38:44know all the pieces are going to they're
2:38:46they're all going to come together and
2:38:48you're it's all going to fit right
2:38:51because what you're going to be what
2:38:53you're saying is the truth I'm just
2:38:55trying to like every time I think of
2:38:58those things it just it gets me all
2:38:59worked up but I have to think about it
2:39:02but I don't really I don't want
2:39:04to and then like it
2:39:08just it brings back all everything okay
2:39:12and that's going to happen for a little
2:39:14bit though too you realize that right I
2:39:16know it's just it's it's a lot yeah yeah
2:39:20and it's just like I did it I don't want
2:39:22to do it
2:39:23again yeah I mean even when you least
2:39:26expect it even you know it's it's going
2:39:29to
2:39:31happen and now it's just like he's
2:39:34asking me these questions like I should
2:39:35have I should
2:39:39have I know it's like maybe I should
2:39:41have been more like attentive
2:39:43like it just happened so fast and it's
2:39:46like he's asking me like the shoes and
2:39:48everything and yeah I can't give them
2:39:51the answer because I don't know well and
2:39:53and that's right right and we don't
2:39:55expect you to you know you don't want to
2:39:57make up something no I'm not because you
2:39:59know you want I wish I was able to
2:40:02answer like I want to be able to answer
2:40:04it
2:40:05so it'd be not easier but it's it help
2:40:09yeah but if you don't know you don't
2:40:12know really that's that's the bottom
2:40:15line if you don't know you don't know I
2:40:17don't me who are we to say because
2:40:19because we weren't there you you're the
2:40:21one that's going through this we are not
2:40:23there
2:40:25so and like Randy was saying what you
2:40:27remember back then you know you've had a
2:40:30couple of days and you know things start
2:40:32to come back in your mind it you know
2:40:35it's it happens so don't be too hung up
2:40:38on oh I didn't remember oh I should have
2:40:42remembered oh why couldn't I remember
2:40:44don't just it makes me feel like I
2:40:46should have no
2:41:02honestly I'm still like beating myself
2:41:03up like I should have no don't do that
2:41:06you don't like you know there's no
2:41:08apologies needed there's no there's none
2:41:11of that there's none of that Jen you
2:41:13don't need to to be beating yourself up
2:41:15over
2:41:17this okay
2:41:24this is some heavy duty stuff I mean
2:41:27this is H you've been through you've
2:41:29been through something that you know is
2:41:32very
2:41:36traumatic do you get a hold of Julia no
2:41:39I haven't still haven't heard yet
2:41:41haven't heard
2:41:45yet and I kind of want to be here if you
2:41:48need me right on the uh right on the go
2:41:52so but you know once once I'm able to to
2:41:55touch B with her again I'll do I'll do
2:41:58that and I know that she'll get in touch
2:41:59with
2:42:18you for
2:43:01I'm trying to use there anything else
2:43:18like for
2:44:01just closing this s
2:44:26is there anything else
2:44:28you you know what you no I
2:44:42I'm it's just like going over again it's
2:44:45okay it'll just wait till Randy comes
2:44:47back and you know if you have some other
2:44:49questions for you he'll he'll ask
2:45:17them for
2:45:59mhm
2:46:47yeah for
2:47:30is that your breast BL is that your
2:47:32chest that you're doing that
2:47:35again a thing you
2:47:39do it's
2:47:43embarrassing when I when I lose control
2:47:45I the only thing I feel I can control is
2:47:50I feel okay oh I just I just heard the
2:47:53sound that's what it was like it was a
2:47:56sound that Drew my attention
2:48:17so
2:48:47for
2:49:17for for
2:50:17for for
2:51:05everything we said here today was
2:51:07confidential with here right sorry
2:51:09everything I said here today was just
2:51:11confidential to hear right just
2:51:13confidential I like it I don't
2:51:19everybody knows
2:51:21that everyone
2:51:29perceives I don't want to disappoint my
2:51:33mother like I don't want
2:51:36to like I said I haven't told her like
2:51:39they don't know about that University
2:51:42stuff
2:51:43mhm and I don't
2:51:46want people my mother is a good person I
2:51:51think of
2:51:54her okay well what you're saying in here
2:51:58is not going to go
2:52:02anywhere cuz everyone say she's such a
2:52:04big mom yes and I don't want that to
2:52:07change okay because of my decisions and
2:52:13my what you're saying in here is is then
2:52:19the confins of this police station and
2:52:23and our investigation so it's not you
2:52:26know that's not something that we
2:52:28would release out to the
2:52:31public
2:52:36okay did you hear from the cor's office
2:52:39I didn't no no if there's another
2:52:41officer that did another detective that
2:52:44um did I can I haven't spoken to him yet
2:52:54have they been able to find out
2:52:56anything and that I don't know CH I
2:52:59don't I don't know um when Randy comes
2:53:02back in
2:53:03here you can ask him all you can ask him
2:53:06those questions and as well he's not the
2:53:09lead investigator on this he We There is
2:53:12a different individual that's the lead
2:53:14investigator so if you've got some
2:53:16questions I'll certainly
2:53:21try to answer them and and then we can
2:53:23take it from
2:53:26there but I don't want to give you
2:53:29information that it's not correct so I
2:53:31just want you know if there's something
2:53:33specific that you want to
2:53:35know no like do they have
2:53:39any like leads or suspects or did anyone
2:53:42say where the car went after and that
2:53:45that I don't know so that would be
2:53:46something that you know what I'd have to
2:53:48find out for
2:53:50you just like is there
2:53:53any anything yeah I know I know you have
2:53:57a lot of a lot of questions you have a
2:53:59lot of questions and and I can't I don't
2:54:02know the answers for you just feels like
2:54:04I'm answering questions but you're not
2:54:07giving a lot you're not getting a lot of
2:54:10answers right now yeah
2:54:40I don't like this part the waiting
2:54:49I can understand I don't like it either
2:54:51like if he's here he can ask me I can
2:54:54give him anything I can think of
2:54:57but I
2:55:17know for
2:56:04I'm good fine
2:56:11[Music]
2:56:17thanks for
2:57:17you
2:57:25are you do you want something to eat I'm
2:57:27starving I don't know about you I don't
2:57:29know how you can go
2:57:31without I can get you something to
2:57:33eat even if it's a
2:57:36bagel okay but you're feeling a little
2:57:39laded do you want some chips or
2:57:41something like that you need some junk
2:57:46food you sure
2:57:50what can I get
2:57:51you if you can eat something right now
2:57:54what would it
2:57:55be hungry yeah but you're
2:58:03laded maybe you should sit down a little
2:58:05bit too okay you've been doing a lot of
2:58:08pacing may you need to just sit down for
2:58:10a
2:58:12bit if you need something with some
2:58:14sugar in it just to give you some energy
2:58:18okay I heard your
2:58:20stomach you heard it but it's just yeah
2:58:24it's your stomach saying you're
2:58:26hungry do you want a candy bow no okay
2:58:47okay
2:59:17for
2:59:47for need some more water sorry more
2:59:50water I'm okay
3:00:16okay
3:00:46for
3:01:16for
3:01:46for
3:02:16for
3:02:46for for
3:03:29you
3:03:46okay for
3:04:36hi
3:04:37Jennifer
3:04:41hey here take some
3:04:44kleenex take some
3:04:46Kleenex tell me what you're feeling
3:04:48right now what's going
3:04:55on you might as well get used to this
3:04:57you got to get it out so tell me what
3:04:59you're feeling right
3:05:04now I'm just got to think if it makes me
3:05:08feel like I should
3:05:12have it's a thing called Survivor guilt
3:05:16okay that you're going to go through
3:05:18you're going to you're going to need and
3:05:19this is like the stuff about the therapy
3:05:21and and getting to speak to someone
3:05:23because there's stages of grieving that
3:05:25you're going to go through okay and this
3:05:27is the only way you're going to go
3:05:29through this is with properly is with
3:05:31help I think victim Services is engaged
3:05:34right they're they're trying to help you
3:05:36so just stick with that okay it's a long
3:05:39road but it's it can be a very
3:05:40successful Road okay and and what you're
3:05:43feeling I hate to say is
3:05:45normal but it is it's something that a
3:05:48lot of people who are in the same
3:05:50circumstance will
3:05:51feel okay but I what I want to do is I
3:05:54want to finish off on this so that we
3:05:56can let you go and get and and get get
3:05:58out of the police station okay because I
3:06:01appreciate your time and I appreciate
3:06:03your
3:06:04help so what is in the
3:06:09safe
3:06:12I'm last time
3:06:17I opened it my mom took out our
3:06:19passports and
3:06:22I I she's she has the combination I
3:06:26don't have the combination you don't
3:06:27have the combination for the safe just
3:06:29your mom just my mom okay and so there
3:06:31was passports no large quantities of
3:06:34cash in
3:06:39there not that I not that I know of
3:06:42because she asked me to help pay for our
3:06:46two trips
3:06:48okay recently went
3:06:49on and what did you get the what did you
3:06:52have the $22,000 for what did you where
3:06:53did you make that
3:06:55money I
3:06:59had I was saving up to get a new cell
3:07:02phone do you have a
3:07:04Blackberry I gave it to Daniel okay my
3:07:07brother gave it to me from his friend
3:07:09but you have so the Blackberry is it in
3:07:11your name that you've given to Daniel so
3:07:13is D it was yours and you've given it to
3:07:15Dan my my brother's friend didn't it was
3:07:17an old old blackberry and my brother's
3:07:19friend gave it to him and I gave it I
3:07:24gave it to Daniel when did you give it
3:07:25to
3:07:32Daniel I gave it to a friend to give to
3:07:34Daniel how long
3:07:36ago
3:07:38couple maybe a week a week ago a week
3:07:42maybe week and a b what's the PIN
3:07:45command for that you know do you have a
3:07:46personal identification number for
3:07:48security reasons have you ever been
3:07:49given that by by Blackberry no no
3:07:52there's there's no lock that I know okay
3:07:55so
3:07:58um
3:08:00Daniel is was and likely Still Remains
3:08:05to be a drug
3:08:06dealer self- admitted when he was in
3:08:09there the other day now so stepping back
3:08:12from that is I had asked you is prior to
3:08:14the incident when's the last time you
3:08:16spoke to Daniel what I should have said
3:08:18to you is when is the last time from
3:08:21today for back that you spoke to Daniel
3:08:24when is the last time you met with him
3:08:26and spoke with him I saw him here
3:08:28yesterday when I was leaving did you
3:08:30talk to him just
3:08:33briefly you didn't see him or talk to
3:08:35him any other times other than right
3:08:37here in the police
3:08:41station and if I told you that Daniel
3:08:43says that you spoke to him you did have
3:08:46a conversation with him
3:08:48somewhere
3:09:00else he would be
3:09:08lying the last time I spoke to him was
3:09:11when he asked for the
3:09:14Blackberry and that was a week ago
3:09:20yes cuz my grandfather had just he was
3:09:23in the hospital and I snuck over and
3:09:26dropped it off for a friend at his
3:09:28paintball place and who is the friend
3:09:30that you gave it to I only know his
3:09:32first name uh hessen hessen and where's
3:09:35the paintball place uh Victoria Park in
3:09:39M nickel right at Victoria Park and MCN
3:09:42between McNichol and Steels on Victoria
3:09:45Park
3:09:51when there's a lot of people remember I
3:09:54told you about the
3:09:55media they're bad they can be very bad
3:09:58when they start to sniff around and they
3:09:59they sense something and I can tell you
3:10:02that the media is
3:10:04portraying that this was supposed to be
3:10:07some sort of drug rated that you guys
3:10:09weren't a random Target that you were a
3:10:11targeted house because of drug activity
3:10:18what would you say to
3:10:20that I don't deal the drugs okay tell me
3:10:25more about that you don't deal the drugs
3:10:27are you involved in the transportation
3:10:28and dist distribution no have you ever
3:10:31been with Danny this is something that's
3:10:33very important have you ever been with
3:10:36Danny when Danny's doing that he
3:10:38normally leaves me with a friend and
3:10:40says he's going out with his
3:10:41friend and like normally when is that
3:10:45normally how long that was three four
3:10:47years ago three or four
3:10:59years was he dealing with big quantities
3:11:01that were you aware of it honestly I I
3:11:05wanted nothing to do with it so I
3:11:07refused to know what he was doing okay
3:11:10and the times that you snuck out and
3:11:12spoke to him how many times a month up
3:11:15until the last time you handed the the
3:11:16Blackberry you'd see him once a
3:11:19week well prior to this I'd only see him
3:11:23once a month because I went away uh
3:11:26twice with my family yeah so I wasn't
3:11:28able to uh go anywhere I was out with
3:11:30them so this month I've only see them
3:11:34twice this month I mean October I saw
3:11:37him twice in October and you but you
3:11:38text you said you text message him every
3:11:40day once at least once more or less um
3:11:44you know and that could be a string of
3:11:45of text messages right it's not just hey
3:11:47how are you doing fine and that's the
3:11:49end of the text message it'd be a string
3:11:50of communication how you were texting it
3:11:52it was it just be where you at are you
3:11:55at work how are you
3:11:57and miss you or what are you doing today
3:12:03and the so when you go out and see him
3:12:07for once during the time once once a
3:12:10week I I'd tell my parents that I was
3:12:12going to class yes and before class or
3:12:15after class I'd go buy him lunch and
3:12:17bring it by his work and sometimes I
3:12:19would see him and sometimes i' just give
3:12:21it to a coworker to give to him and how
3:12:23long when you see him how long would you
3:12:24see him for 10 minutes 15 minutes cuz he
3:12:28was working uh when you weren't when he
3:12:30wasn't working and you were able to get
3:12:32out and see him how long dad it hasn't
3:12:34happened in a long time and how long is
3:12:36a long time the last time I saw him
3:12:39outside of that was when Gary picked me
3:12:41up and I got caught by my parents and
3:12:44that was I'd say a year if not a year
3:12:46and a half
3:12:47and why why did he want your
3:12:50blackberry he said that he had sold his
3:12:53BlackBerry so he needed a
3:12:56phone and that
3:13:00Blackberry what like I'm I'm kind of
3:13:02confused is was that an active
3:13:04phone no cuz now we're talking about
3:13:07three phones now we're talk or we got a
3:13:08SIM card we got the phone that your
3:13:10parents know you have and you got a
3:13:11Blackberry up until a week ago yes so
3:13:16the Blackberry is what I was using with
3:13:17my own Roger SIM card the phone I'm
3:13:20using now was an old phone that I no
3:13:23longer used okay so because the
3:13:25reception was no good the Blackberry was
3:13:27your normal phone that you were using on
3:13:28a regular basis yes and um and you would
3:13:32switch SIM cards if so if you were going
3:13:34to communicate him with the other SIM
3:13:35card you'd put the SIM card in that
3:13:37blackberry and talk to him through that
3:13:39I had an iPhone that you had an iPhone I
3:13:41kept in my room that my parents didn't
3:13:42know about um cuz my brother I had one
3:13:46that Daniel gave me earlier but it broke
3:13:48yeah so my brother what he did was he
3:13:51fixed the part so he can have one that
3:13:52he used himself but uh the one I had
3:13:55wasn't fully functioning it was just
3:13:57able uh it had no internet access on it
3:14:00so I just kept it for phone calls and I
3:14:03kept it hidden and where is that phone
3:14:04now it should be still on my in my room
3:14:08yes where
3:14:12uh I believe it was on my laptop table
3:14:15or something or on my counter and it
3:14:17doesn't have a SIM card in it right now
3:14:20no I don't keep the SIM card in it just
3:14:22in case my parents asked okay so there's
3:14:26an iPhone on by your desk on your desk
3:14:30somewhere in that in your room yes and
3:14:33um the Rogers I mean the Blackberry that
3:14:36you had had up until a week and it went
3:14:38to Daniel and and for what reason it
3:14:40went to Daniel he had a black another a
3:14:42newer Blackberry but he said someone
3:14:44wanted to buy it like a friend of his
3:14:46wanted to buy it
3:14:47and that he needed a phone temporarily
3:14:50so so he took your phone so I I had
3:14:52another phone as well so I said okay
3:14:54I'll lend you this
3:14:57one so
3:15:00um it sounds as if you couldn't let
3:15:03Danny go like you're you're still there
3:15:06you're still
3:15:07hoping the Hope isn't much but but
3:15:10you're still hoping I still care you're
3:15:12not you're not walking away from them
3:15:15right you haven't walked away from them
3:15:16even with with the comments that you've
3:15:18received these comments from I had and
3:15:23then
3:15:25but I had for a while I disappeared from
3:15:29him for a while but I needed it was just
3:15:33he he's that calm that he can he can
3:15:37make me calm so I reach back out to him
3:15:40so is the is it you instigating all the
3:15:43communication or does he reach back does
3:15:44he start he reached back as well
3:15:48okay
3:15:50now you have to figure as I said the
3:15:53media can be horrific in some cases and
3:15:55I I told you you not to read or pay
3:15:58attention to the news and I know for a
3:16:00fact that in one of the newspapers that
3:16:03the angle that's being portrayed right
3:16:05now is that this was a drug that you
3:16:07guys were um not a random but a targeted
3:16:11residence because of drug rated
3:16:14activity you and your family were
3:16:16engaged in drug related
3:16:18activity
3:16:20now is it possible that
3:16:25Danny that you are being mistaken
3:16:27somehow as being involved in his life in
3:16:30that angle of things well I haven't been
3:16:32around his life for a while like going
3:16:35out with
3:16:37him but I wouldn't say it's completely
3:16:40out of the question but I haven't I
3:16:43don't I don't go around with him when
3:16:45he's doing that kind of stuff I
3:16:47I don't like it and I refuse to be a
3:16:49part of that and now what do you say
3:16:51about chis the comment about Christine
3:16:53and the
3:16:54running I kind of took a blind eye to
3:16:56that I guess but are is it is it your
3:16:59understanding that she may be not only
3:17:00part of it but linking him to the people
3:17:03involved in this
3:17:06activity
3:17:08and because like I told you he gives me
3:17:11that answer and I kind of take a blind
3:17:13eye but if I were
3:17:15to tell you what I thought of what was
3:17:18that I would think that she she also has
3:17:23her own thing
3:17:26going her own business does she work for
3:17:28a
3:17:30living what I know of her is that uh I
3:17:34think he mentioned that she worked at No
3:17:36Frills but it wasn't like she didn't
3:17:37work often like I think he he mentioned
3:17:40that she doesn't have a job once but I
3:17:43know she worked for nors I don't know if
3:17:45she still does
3:17:47um which noow FRS do you know
3:17:49unfortunately I'm not sure do you know
3:17:51what area of of town or where she lives
3:17:53she lives at midlin and Steels at midlin
3:17:56and Steels yes on the Markham or Scaro
3:17:58side on on on the uh Scaro side on the
3:18:03scarber side and Christine you don't
3:18:04know her last name Filipe
3:18:07Filipe what's that what nationality is
3:18:10she Philipino Filipino um and how old is
3:18:14Christine I I only know she's older than
3:18:16than me I'm not sure if she's his age or
3:18:18older I'm not sure did he ever say where
3:18:21he met her we all we all went to the
3:18:23same high school and they also uh yeah
3:18:26they all we all went to the same high
3:18:28school what school was that Mary Ward
3:18:30Mary Ward
3:18:34yes
3:18:36now how would you feel if you know
3:18:41like Daniel is the one
3:18:44who's through through whatever activity
3:18:47that he's engaged in and you've been
3:18:49around but not necessarily having an
3:18:51understanding because you're seen with
3:18:52him that he's brought this back to
3:19:03you I don't know if that's in fact
3:19:05happened I'm trying to find a Rhyme or
3:19:07Reason for why your house was targeted
3:19:09I'm still trying to figure out how they
3:19:11got in your
3:19:13house like you didn't hear you didn't
3:19:15hear a doorbell you you didn't hear a
3:19:17door knock you didn't hear a door kicked
3:19:20in you didn't hear I was I said I was
3:19:23watching TV on the phone I I don't know
3:19:25how yeah I I know we went over that back
3:19:29and back and forth we don't know
3:19:32how so somehow they got into your
3:19:36house by getting through your mom down
3:19:39on the lower level right because she's
3:19:40the only one who's down there she's the
3:19:42only one down there so it's very
3:19:45confusing
3:19:48um we do have surveillance cameras from
3:19:51the area right that explain that well
3:19:53hopefully but it's that's you know
3:19:55that's still in work in
3:19:58progress
3:20:01um
3:20:02but generally random
3:20:06events are not in most cases random
3:20:10there's a Rhyme or Reason Why they've
3:20:11come to your
3:20:12house but from what you've told me
3:20:15inside the house the only thing that you
3:20:16hear them saying to you is they're
3:20:18looking for
3:20:19money they're not looking for a specific
3:20:21quantity of money no do you ever hear
3:20:24number one telling number three about
3:20:27the quantity of money that he's
3:20:28recovered
3:20:32no I don't hear
3:20:36that all the comment you hear from
3:20:38number one really is is is it's time to
3:20:41go we've been here too long we've been
3:20:42here too long yes and number three was
3:20:45the one that says was was my father and
3:20:47all I could what I heard from him was
3:20:49basically where's more you're
3:20:56lying so you're telling me that you you
3:21:00had no involvement in what
3:21:02happened meaning not saying how the
3:21:05outcome came but you you had no
3:21:07involvement in in any type of illegal
3:21:09activity that would have drawn you or
3:21:11the attention of you to have bad people
3:21:13come to your house looking for large
3:21:16sums of money
3:21:18you're not involved in this any which
3:21:21way because the question obviously
3:21:25stands Jennifer
3:21:27is you're upstairs and they're
3:21:31downstairs
3:21:33right so it's a natural
3:21:37concern when why would they leave you
3:21:39alone why would they not do the same to
3:21:42you
3:21:49you can't answer that
3:21:52question the only thing I can say is he
3:21:54said I
3:21:57cooperated but I asked him to take me
3:21:59the number one guy the number one guy
3:22:01said you
3:22:03cooperated
3:22:05okay there's no you had no threats and
3:22:09again we're back to the fact that you
3:22:11admittedly lied okay not to me right not
3:22:15to me no you admitted ly lied you've
3:22:18lied to your
3:22:20parents right about going to school
3:22:24you've lied to to Danny about being
3:22:27Daniel about being raped and about
3:22:29receiving a
3:22:31bullet who's to say this whole thing
3:22:33isn't a
3:22:34lie that what you're telling me is a lie
3:22:38because if you are lying it's the most
3:22:40cold blooded thing that I have ever
3:22:41faced in my life
3:22:59there is nothing that you've said to me
3:23:01today is a
3:23:02lie and I I want to there I want to just
3:23:06put a little Preamble not nothing in
3:23:09here that you might have mistaken
3:23:11because of order of events I'm saying to
3:23:14you right now is there anything
3:23:17throughout the course of your statement
3:23:19today where you've lied to
3:23:26me from your interaction with Danny
3:23:30Daniel from your I'm not involved in
3:23:33drugs and I don't have anything to do
3:23:34with them and we don't have large sums
3:23:36of money what about life insurance
3:23:38policies do your parents have life
3:23:40insurance
3:23:44policies I I think I I I don't know I
3:23:47know they had a they had
3:23:52a I I have one of myself yes and uh my
3:23:57mom uh they used to have one for me when
3:24:00I was younger okay but uh half of that
3:24:03went to education half went
3:24:06to uh life insurance and when they found
3:24:09out I I uh I didn't go to university
3:24:14they they asked for the money so hang on
3:24:17a second here you told to me that you
3:24:19told me that they never knew you didn't
3:24:21go to university when did they find out
3:24:23that you didn't go to
3:24:25university I told them that I graduated
3:24:28but I never went to University that I
3:24:31went for two years but I never finished
3:24:34okay and they wanted the money back as a
3:24:36result of that yes so you did actually
3:24:39tell your parents somewhat of the truth
3:24:40that you never went to University or but
3:24:42it's it's half
3:24:43truths yes
3:24:47so back to this line is
3:24:51um where we're talking about the fact
3:24:53that of the lying right is that it's I
3:24:56don't deal the drugs I don't associate
3:24:59with
3:25:01that okay I honest I
3:25:04don't
3:25:06now back to another very difficult
3:25:08question but if I don't ask it I'm going
3:25:11to be it's an obvious one the resentment
3:25:13that you had that you may have had
3:25:16towards your parents for the
3:25:17interference in your relationship and
3:25:19your life and essentially locking you
3:25:21down in your
3:25:23house at the end of the day I love my
3:25:26parents and I chose to be with
3:25:29them and if I wanted to I could have
3:25:33just left but I didn't I wanted to stay
3:25:35with them and take care of
3:25:38them so this wasn't some evil plot that
3:25:41you thought up to oh my God no
3:25:47no interaction no belief no you didn't
3:25:49have anything to do with this thing at
3:25:50all whatsoever you don't engage in
3:25:53illegal activity
3:25:56no because you know that it'll be very
3:25:58easy it will be a very easy thing to
3:25:59discredit you on right we're we're in
3:26:01the process of trying to add credibility
3:26:03to what you tell us and that's through
3:26:05the process of asking people and doing
3:26:07whatever through that same process it
3:26:09will be very easy to find the flaws in
3:26:11what you've said which again then turns
3:26:14the focus back to you
3:26:17okay it's a natural progress It's a
3:26:19natural thing that investigators do we
3:26:21eliminate people or we draw our
3:26:24attention to him it's a natural thing
3:26:27it's a it's not brain
3:26:28surgery
3:26:32okay what did you talk to Michelle about
3:26:36did you talk to Michelle last night or
3:26:38the day before that you were coming that
3:26:41about talking to the
3:26:42police I just asked her how she was
3:26:45feeling cuz she was nervous is what did
3:26:47you tell her just tell the truth tell
3:26:50you what you
3:26:51know and the threats that you you say
3:26:54that you've received the threats that
3:26:56you've talked about are the same threats
3:26:58that you're mentioning from the text
3:27:00messaging they're not really you did you
3:27:03receive any lifethreatening or are they
3:27:05basically just stay away from just the
3:27:07email saying the the messages saying
3:27:09stay away from Danny yes okay I heard a
3:27:14knock on the door get bear with me
3:27:45for for
3:28:45oh
3:29:15for
3:29:45for for
3:30:44than
3:31:14for
3:31:44e for
3:32:44now
3:33:14for
3:33:44for for
3:34:32can anyone come
3:34:39in I'm here I'm right
3:34:44here
3:35:14for for
3:36:15here
3:36:44for
3:37:14for for
3:38:08I'm just up here okay right back and
3:38:11just step there
3:38:44for
3:39:08[Music]
3:39:14for
3:39:44for
3:40:14for
3:40:44for for
3:41:44you
3:42:14for
3:42:44for for
3:43:30okay we we're we're done
3:43:34essentially how you feeling sorry you
3:43:37really scared me did I what I scare you
3:43:39about sit down sit down and and take a
3:43:41load off tell me how tell me how you're
3:43:43feeling and how I scared you
3:43:48I don't want you walking away from here
3:43:50thinking I'm evil I want you to walking
3:43:51around from here thinking that this guy
3:43:54is helping investigate my mom's murder
3:43:56and he's going to turn over every stone
3:43:57possible to make sure that we catch the
3:43:59people who do that that's what I want
3:44:00you feeling so I don't want you walking
3:44:02away from here thinking that I'm a I'm I
3:44:04scared you or I'm I'm a bad man
3:44:07sometimes we have to ask very very
3:44:09difficult questions but it's my
3:44:11job okay and you would expect that
3:44:15from me and it's not you're not the only
3:44:18person that we're asking this stuff of
3:44:21right but you're the most obvious person
3:44:23that we have to ask this stuff
3:44:28to and there's it's just it's just the
3:44:32way we operate it's the way we have to
3:44:33operate it's a tough job to to to deal
3:44:36with someone's murder and there's some
3:44:38very bad people and there's some very
3:44:40tough questions that need to be
3:44:42asked so you have to I hope you
3:44:44understand that
3:44:47I understand that it's
3:44:52just it's hard to
3:44:54take have you lied to
3:44:57me no no you haven't lied to me about
3:45:01anything I said whatever I could to help
3:45:05okay so if you've always told the truth
3:45:08the truth will never hurt you it may get
3:45:10you into a bit of trouble right the
3:45:12truth can get you into trouble if you've
3:45:13done some things long but generally in
3:45:17most cases if you tell the truth you'll
3:45:20always be
3:45:23fine so that's that's the Avenue that
3:45:27that that's the Avenue you have to think
3:45:28about and and what you I can always I
3:45:30never do anything wrong if I tell the
3:45:32truth and if I've made if I've said some
3:45:34things that are lies or I've held
3:45:36something back because I think it might
3:45:38hurt me those are the things that will
3:45:40cause people to look at you more int
3:45:45because the question is is why would
3:45:47that person do that to me they've got
3:45:48something to hide
3:45:50right
3:45:53so you know the fact that you've lied to
3:45:56your parents over a long period of time
3:45:58the fact that you've lied about to
3:46:00Daniel about those other two events you
3:46:02know those are
3:46:05disturbing right but I don't live in
3:46:07your shoes and I would never judge you
3:46:09on that fact but from an outsider
3:46:12looking in to have to live under those
3:46:14conditions to have to lie
3:46:18continually you're going to ask the
3:46:20question
3:46:28why and if that's the way that you have
3:46:30to live that's the way you have to
3:46:32live but people will judge you on your
3:46:36life
3:46:42right so is there anything else
3:46:45that you think that you can think of
3:46:48that might help help
3:47:08us there was this one person
3:47:11who added me on Facebook
3:47:20and I found it weird that he had added
3:47:23me out of
3:47:25nowhere and I had looked in common
3:47:29friends and saw that he was friends with
3:47:31this girl that girl Christine when I
3:47:34spoke to Daniel about it I don't know if
3:47:36he told her or not but I asked him like
3:47:40is she just casual friends with him or
3:47:44is she good friends with
3:47:47him and the day
3:47:49after I asked him this they were no
3:47:52longer friends on
3:47:54Facebook who is this guy what did he
3:47:56look like Casey law I've never met him
3:47:59apparently went to high school as well
3:48:02but I don't recall ever meeting
3:48:07him and he kept asking me questions
3:48:11that I don't know if it's just his
3:48:13personality but he asked me questions
3:48:14that I thought
3:48:16were too abrupt to ask someone you just
3:48:19met like what give me an
3:48:23example he
3:48:26asked if I had a boyfriend and if I was
3:48:30looking for a boyfriend and if I engaged
3:48:33in Sex and things like
3:48:36that so that's the kind of question he
3:48:38was you know provoking
3:48:42you Casey law
3:48:45and did you recognize the name from
3:48:48school recognizable but again I don't
3:48:51remember ever even having a conversation
3:48:52with
3:48:53him and so he said he went to your
3:48:56school yes but he was older than me he's
3:48:58older than you and um what what does he
3:49:03look like Chinese guy
3:49:06yeah when I when I talked to him he said
3:49:09that he was uh working like security
3:49:15okay so that's that's on on on things
3:49:18that strange things that have happened
3:49:20to you recently that's that's it that
3:49:23you can think of is that that one and
3:49:24plus obviously the the the stuff that
3:49:27was going on with Christine and then the
3:49:29ghost messages that you were receiving
3:49:31right from from these were numbers that
3:49:35didn't exist or they didn't have any no
3:49:37it was blocked blocked numbers and when
3:49:40I called Rogers they said that's not
3:49:43possible for a text message to come in
3:49:45with a block number
3:49:48yes
3:49:57okay so um you know that whatever
3:50:00everything you've told us has been under
3:50:02oath
3:50:03yes you know that part of the our job is
3:50:07is to go back
3:50:10and look at what you've told us to try
3:50:12and match up to the reality of what we
3:50:15have of evidence that we have
3:50:17right and you said you're were you you
3:50:21said
3:50:23essentially nothing you you didn't
3:50:24really change much from your first
3:50:26statement to your second statement right
3:50:28you've you've uh you've explained more
3:50:30we've we've covered off
3:50:32more but is there anything in this
3:50:35course of these that you think you want
3:50:37to change
3:50:45you make me like now I feel like I've
3:50:47said something wrong you have not I
3:50:49don't know if you said you have to me
3:50:51have said no no I've said everything
3:50:52that I know that is true and I'm asking
3:50:54you is if from reflecting on what you've
3:50:56told me today which is fairly consistent
3:51:00with the first statement it's just
3:51:01there's more detail now is there
3:51:03anything in there from what you've been
3:51:05going down and what you think be it
3:51:07should be right on the tip of your
3:51:08tongue if you want to change something
3:51:10it would be
3:51:12like you know what I I said this and I I
3:51:15really meant this it's not something
3:51:16you've missed it's something that you
3:51:18knowingly have said that you want to
3:51:20change that you know was wrong or could
3:51:23be taken wrong okay well well first
3:51:25thing the school thing yes I didn't go
3:51:29to university but I told my parents that
3:51:31I went for a few years right how long
3:51:34ago did you how long did you tell them
3:51:36that how long ago did they find out I
3:51:39told them everything when I was going I
3:51:41was seeing Daniel and that I only I told
3:51:45them I only went partial school okay and
3:51:47I told them all and when was that what
3:51:49year was that when how long ago a year
3:51:51and a half ago so is this when the
3:51:53ultimatum come down is after is that at
3:51:55that point in time the ultimatum came
3:51:56about
3:51:58a there there's always been ultimatums
3:52:01like they always gave me a second but
3:52:03the one that you made the choice where
3:52:04you were at because you say that was
3:52:06about a year and a half ago too is that
3:52:08part of when you came clean to a certain
3:52:11extent you say you came clean coming
3:52:13clean would be M and Dad no I didn't
3:52:15come clean but I came
3:52:17like when I when I
3:52:20said when I said what they
3:52:23know and that was a year and a half ago
3:52:26yes okay so there's one that you've
3:52:29we've clarified is there anything else
3:52:30that you can think
3:52:36of is there anything
3:52:40that like I everything I said is what I
3:52:43said
3:52:45that's all I know yeah just Mak feel
3:52:47like you're looking at me to for me to
3:52:49try and tell you what I think you said
3:52:51was wrong I don't know I I'm telling you
3:52:54that I'm um I I've heard everything that
3:52:58you've had to say I don't have this uh
3:53:03miraculous TV ability that says I can
3:53:05pull out a chunk of this and say to you
3:53:08that portion is wrong I can tell you
3:53:10from what you've told us we're going to
3:53:13compare it with all the evidence we have
3:53:15and see how consistent it is there's no
3:53:18way you're expected to be 100% it's
3:53:21impossible okay eyewitnesses for every
3:53:23event we know are have don't have the
3:53:26ability to recall everything so that's
3:53:29why we ask you do to the best of your
3:53:32ability my concern lies in the fact of
3:53:36you're
3:53:37lying okay you've come clean you've
3:53:41never lied to me before right I've never
3:53:44met meant you to be a liar but the fact
3:53:45is is that you've lied about stuff to
3:53:49Daniel you've lied to your
3:53:51parents
3:53:54so could you be lying to me I can't why
3:53:59couldn't you be lying to me because
3:54:00you're scaring me doesn't mean that I
3:54:02you couldn't be lying to me right I
3:54:06don't know you I've known you now for
3:54:08probably five hours
3:54:10intermittent I hope you're not lying to
3:54:12me right that's all I can hope
3:54:16for but the fact of the matter is is
3:54:18that those three things are sitting
3:54:20there saying you know like you have the
3:54:23ability to trick your parents for a long
3:54:25period of
3:54:26time they just weren't in tune what I
3:54:29was
3:54:30doing very explainable and I also
3:54:32weren't live I wasn't living where you
3:54:34are right and I'm so I'm not going to
3:54:36prejudge you because I people do what
3:54:38they need to do to
3:54:40survive so it could very easily be
3:54:42justified as a survival mechanism this
3:54:44is is the best Avenue that you saw and
3:54:46you were stuck in it okay but the fact
3:54:49is is that my job is is trying to get
3:54:52the root of a of a s very serious crime
3:54:55and I have to explore every Avenue that
3:54:57we possibly can so I'm going to do
3:55:00everything in my power to either prove
3:55:02us as as our police agency prove or
3:55:05disprove what you've told us the more we
3:55:08prove or can cooporate the more
3:55:11credibility you you have as as a witness
3:55:14okay that's going to
3:55:17happen we may even ask you to come back
3:55:20again again it will be not for you will
3:55:24not be explaining what
3:55:27happened in a grand scheme of things
3:55:29because you've done that up and down and
3:55:30backwards it may be for points of
3:55:32clarification okay because again we're
3:55:34speaking to we're going to be going and
3:55:36likely speaking to some of your friends
3:55:38and your relatives and it's just points
3:55:42of clarification may not happen it may
3:55:44you know I'm only saying that it may I
3:55:46told you I didn't want to do the five
3:55:48and six and seven interviews with you
3:55:50well after today that's not going to
3:55:52happen but we may be contacting you to
3:55:55help us for some other points that we
3:55:57come across okay again it goes back to
3:55:59your credibility but I don't no one's
3:56:01going to sit you down and crank you
3:56:04through um the events unless you were
3:56:08involved in
3:56:10it right and then I can't then all all
3:56:12promises are all everything comes
3:56:15off if you had some involvement in this
3:56:19then then I'm just saying all the all
3:56:21the rules if you didn't have anything to
3:56:24do with
3:56:25this and you're telling me the
3:56:27truth then we may be calling you to add
3:56:31is this true what this person's saying
3:56:33this way and we may be asking you points
3:56:35like that okay you you're our only
3:56:39link you're it until your dad regains
3:56:43his back and being being able to be be
3:56:45be spoken to right now you're our only
3:56:47linked to this case so we're we may rely
3:56:51on you heavily on until we can speak to
3:56:53your
3:56:54father okay so don't be afraid if you've
3:56:58told the truth the last thing you should
3:57:00be afraid of is is anything if you've
3:57:02told the truth and you've been truthful
3:57:04through this whole
3:57:05process then you're helping you're doing
3:57:08your
3:57:09part okay and don't be afraid of me I'm
3:57:13just afraid because
3:57:15you know like I know everything is just
3:57:18all pointing negatively right now and I
3:57:21I don't understand why it's not all
3:57:23pointing negatively you know what you're
3:57:25you're so you're misunderstanding things
3:57:26that you're thinking it's all negatively
3:57:28pointing anywhere it's not pointing
3:57:30anywhere right now we are still
3:57:32Gathering and Gathering and Gathering
3:57:35there is no direction that we're there's
3:57:37nothing you are not a suspect in this in
3:57:40this
3:57:41investigation okay you're a witness and
3:57:43a victim of a crime I know but I'm
3:57:47just I'm just I feel that like the way
3:57:50you're you're speaking to me it's kind
3:57:51of like I know you said that you had to
3:57:54say those things but it's yeah it's here
3:57:58and I've already said it to the special
3:58:02victims yesterday but there's like ideas
3:58:04in my head yeah and I'm afraid to say it
3:58:07out
3:58:08loud but ideas about speculation of what
3:58:12happened or how it happened ideas of
3:58:16why why wasn't I
3:58:20there it it's
3:58:23you you that psychologically is an issue
3:58:28that you need to straighten out with
3:58:30counseling okay for you to speculate
3:58:33into the investigation as to why you
3:58:34weren't there unless unless it's
3:58:37standing out I believe you said in your
3:58:40opinion was is that they said I
3:58:41cooperated cooperated right
3:58:45and in uh in a in a case that makes no
3:58:47sense that could be the only sense that
3:58:49we get out of the investigation is that
3:58:51strange things happen right strange
3:58:54things
3:58:55happen
3:58:57so yeah unfortunately uh at times some
3:59:01of us have to point the finger seem like
3:59:03we're pointing the finger and it really
3:59:05is just to provoke you to see what
3:59:06you're going to do how you're going to
3:59:08respond okay
3:59:11so it's only a question and it's been
3:59:14answered and if you've been
3:59:16truthful okay you have nothing to fear
3:59:19absolutely
3:59:21nothing
3:59:25okay what do you want to
3:59:29say that I got a phone call once and
3:59:32like I I said earlier I don't know
3:59:34if you it it was like zoned in but they
3:59:38cont they said that they can make
3:59:40everything disappear and that's what I'm
3:59:42afraid of because you're asking me all
3:59:44these questions and I'm answering them
3:59:46truthfully but I'm afraid
3:59:49that well I can't answer them for you
3:59:52well there's some you know not you're
3:59:54the technology exists you know um there
3:59:57is some technology out there I'm sure
3:59:59that can make things disappear and I
4:00:00know that not everything is captured so
4:00:04you know we go back to interviewing
4:00:05someone else who may say yeah well she
4:00:08told me about this and uh or I had
4:00:10similar things so there's other ways
4:00:13around it it's not this case isn't going
4:00:14to hinge on small
4:00:17inconsistencies right it's not going to
4:00:19hinge on small it's not inconsistency
4:00:21it's I'm afraid of what is out there
4:00:25because you you shine a light that it
4:00:27could have been because of what he's
4:00:30involved
4:00:31in is it is it not a
4:00:33possibility I know like you have given
4:00:36me that and with that I'm just like I'm
4:00:38scared
4:00:41because it could be anybody out there
4:00:44right now it could be anyone and that's
4:00:46the reality of it right we don't we're
4:00:50the theories we're we're at the same
4:00:52position of you is speculating as to
4:00:54theories and and reasons why and um you
4:00:58can't be confined in your theories
4:01:00because you know if you're sitting here
4:01:01looking like this you know at a small
4:01:03with the blinders on that this is it's
4:01:06it's like this we got to think at every
4:01:08possible way that it could that this
4:01:10crime could have been happening and you
4:01:12know saying that it could have been Dan
4:01:14yeah it could have been Daniel could it
4:01:16been a random act yeah it could have
4:01:18been a random could they have been
4:01:19targeted because of something did yeah
4:01:21it could have been we've got to explore
4:01:23them
4:01:24all and then try and figure out which
4:01:26one through motive and opportunity and
4:01:29means was likely to have occurred and
4:01:32hopefully we start to focus down on
4:01:36suspects but right now there's no
4:01:38fingers being directed at anyone it's
4:01:41just I
4:01:42feel that's what you're meant to
4:01:45feel
4:01:47okay that's what you're meant to
4:01:51feel but there's nothing right now other
4:01:53than what you told me about the changing
4:01:55where you fix it at the end about your I
4:01:56just wanted to clarify that okay so is
4:01:58there anything else not off the top of
4:02:01my
4:02:12head so we're back to this last question
4:02:15that uh comes back to is is there
4:02:17anything else I should know to uh to
4:02:19understand your statement fully and
4:02:20that's again is it this is where you'll
4:02:22drop in that I took five hits acid
4:02:25before I you're not on drugs you're not
4:02:28uh taking liquor you're not taking any
4:02:30medication
4:02:31you're you you voluntarily gave this
4:02:35statement and you did it having a full
4:02:39understand of what you've told me yes
4:02:41yes
4:02:53okay so the recorders are being

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