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Colonel David Russell Williams Full Interrogation — Transcript

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0:02I was speaking with Russ as well oh yeah
0:09to give your number ahead yeah
0:12now they were as doing some pretty
0:13thorough interviews that night yeah
0:14absolutely I was ready to live to see
0:16she's gonna glow say that's a little
0:18microphone make sure there's nice and
0:20clear as you can see here everything in
0:22this rotates and audio taped check
0:25you're being interviewed by the police
0:27and on in a room like this before
0:29No okay oh yeah all right oh yeah muscle
0:45I appreciate come in an investigation
0:47like this I mean I'm sure you can
0:48appreciate that's been big news
0:50how actually done Belleville way and you
0:54know obviously our approach to cases
0:55like this is that we don't give up on
0:58somebody being alive and tell them you
1:00get evidence that they're not so because
1:03of that we're treating Jessica's case
1:05'la as an emergent situation obviously
1:07so we're fast-forwarding things that we
1:11might normally take our time with and
1:13that's why we're here on a Sunday
1:15afternoon so again I appreciate it we're
1:19going to do a pretty thorough interview
1:20today okay and the reason for that is
1:23because the last thing we want is to be
1:26calling people back again and again and
1:27again okay so what we're gonna do is
1:29we're going to go over a number of
1:30things and I'm going to explain what all
1:32those are to get okay I'm a big coffee I
1:36don't know if you're a coffee guy or any
1:39is so no I see that all right good I
1:42guess they're definitely uh they block
1:44yeah they're just block with with sugar
1:50Sergi what's a come just all okay well
1:54there's napkins if you want to toss it
1:55over ever appreciate that all right and
1:58again like I said this interviews gonna
2:00be very thorough but again I have a
2:03simple rule when I talk to people it's
2:05I'm sure you're the same way I treat
2:07people with respect I don't know why ask
2:08is you're the same for me so what we're
2:11going to do is we're going to start off
2:12by going through what your rights are
2:14okay okay just like everybody else okay
2:17they've ever been read your rights
2:19before no I'm sure you've seen on TV a
2:21whole bunch of times gradually the
2:22American version so I'll go over with
2:24you briefly okay basically in Canada as
2:27you know I'm sure is we all have our
2:29rights guaranteed under the Charter of
2:31Rights and Freedoms okay now Russell
2:33just to avoid any confusion because
2:35people do get confused when they're talk
2:37to you by the police is that you're
2:39obviously under arrest for today okay
2:41anytime you feel you want to leave here
2:43you feel free to do so the doors not
2:45locked reso walk you down to lobby
2:46anytime you want okay if there's
2:50anything that comes up and are
2:51interviewed today Russell that that you
2:53feel you want to talk to a lawyer boat
2:55you just you just let me know today and
2:58the reason for that isn't one I explain
3:00to you exactly what's going on here okay
3:03Jessica
3:04Lloyd is is one of four cases that we're
3:09currently investigating
3:11and essentially what's happened is over
3:13the past about four or five months there
3:19have been four occurrences it like I
3:21said that we're looking into two of
3:23those occurrences occurred in September
3:24of 2009 and very briefly they were up in
3:28the tweet area yeah they involved
3:30somebody entering two different women's
3:32houses in the evening hours and
3:35committing sexual acts okay in November
3:40of 2009 young lady by the name of RIA
3:44France
3:44como might be yeah was found murdered in
3:49her home right and we believe that there
3:51was a sexual component to that crime as
3:53well and then most recently we have
3:57Jessica Lloyd's disappearance and
3:59okay so essentially when you look at
4:01those kind of crimes we're looking at a
4:02number of different potential criminal
4:04charges all right we're looking at
4:06issues all the way from the most serious
4:09one which is first-degree murder
4:10kidnapping sexual assault
4:13break-and-enter with intent to commit
4:15sexual assault forcible confinement okay
4:18and so what I want to make sure you
4:21understand and we've sort of been doing
4:22with everybody been talking to is that
4:23clearly when we find out who's
4:25responsible for one or all of those
4:27crimes they could be charged with one or
4:29all of those offenses okay whether it's
4:31you or whether there's anybody else and
4:33that's why it's important that we make
4:36sure that people understand what they
4:37have to do and what they don't have to
4:38do when they're talking to us okay so as
4:40I said before any point today you feel
4:43the need you want to speak to a lawyer
4:44you let me know and we can take you to a
4:47room where you can do that in private
4:48okay do you have your own lawyer a
4:52Realty little bit okay all right if at
4:57any point you want to make that call and
4:58you don't know who to call we have a
5:01phone list of lawyers that are available
5:03to give you advice free of charge right
5:04over the phone okay so again if at any
5:06point today you want to take advantage
5:08of that you just let me know is there
5:10any reason you wanna call we're now a
5:13couple oh they're fairly simple and
5:15straightforward the things that you
5:16probably understand but again we go over
5:18them to make sure everybody's clear is
5:20that you don't have to speak to me today
5:22okay and the reason for that is because
5:25the law considers me to be what we refer
5:27to as a personal authority okay probably
5:29similar to what you may be considered to
5:30be on the base and because of that I can
5:33be compelled to appear before any judge
5:35in the country basically to account for
5:37what takes place here today between you
5:39and I okay and that's the reason why
5:41everything's recorded because there
5:43can't be any more accurate record than
5:45that right so and the other thing I want
5:48to make sure you understand is that you
5:50know you mentioned a second ago about
5:51miss Komal being one of your work
5:54associates so I don't know what's
5:57happened since November on the military
6:00side of things but what we want to make
6:02people clear on is that if you have been
6:05spoken to by any person authority or any
6:06police officer about any of those cases
6:08I don't want what they may have said to
6:11you too
6:12make you feel influenced or compelled to
6:14say anything to be today okay whatever
6:16you might have felt influenced or
6:18compelled to say to them earlier you
6:19don't have to repeat it to me you don't
6:20have to say anything further okay but
6:22obviously what you do say you know the
6:24third diamond is being recorded right so
6:26understood these first two attacks
6:28happened not that far from my place into
6:31evil the second one dude yeah we didn't
6:34even know the first one had happened but
6:35I understand that was reasonably close
6:37as well but the second one was I was
6:40very close yeah so certainly at the
6:41times repeated a door yeah okay yeah and
6:51I'm aware of that from looking at the
6:53different cases and essentially a rustle
6:56in a nutshell that's what we wanted to
6:58talk to you about okay those four cases
7:01are a concern to us and you know you've
7:04kind of almost hit the nail on the head
7:06about some of our issues that kind of
7:08make us want to talk to - Russell
7:10Williams okay
7:12because essentially there's a connection
7:15between you and all four of those cases
7:19would you agree you're back in the New
7:23Year I Drive past oh yes yeah and that's
7:28what that's why I'll be quite frank with
7:31you that's why things kind of evolved
7:34when the officers talk to you on
7:36Thursday night okay we kind of went from
7:38there
7:38because when I think you discuss within
7:41the fact that you were a colonel yeah at
7:44the base obviously uniform of the time
7:46zone yeah so pretty obvious right so
7:49essentially then the connection with
7:51miss Komal was made and I believe you're
7:57ador - down from one of those two
8:00incidents intrigue three doors down yeah
8:03yeah very yeah exactly so those are some
8:07of the issues we want to discuss with
8:08you yeah okay so just getting back to
8:12these four incidents that we're talking
8:14about maybe you could just give me a
8:16little bit of history as to your arrival
8:20in the and the base in Trenton when did
8:22you start working there
8:25Friday on the day I was
8:36Friday on the day who's at home most
8:38most the day I had a stomach flu okay
8:41and Ottawa or tweet tweet in Tweed okay
8:45so with backtrack then so all day Friday
8:51you're at home yeah and then what time
8:55do you leave to go to the base to sleep
8:57there on the Friday night and you get to
9:13the base and spend the evening there and
9:15get up for the 5:30 yeah okay so we
9:18backtrack from there you when did you
9:21arrive at your home at the cottage
9:25I wanted to only get confused between
9:26home and Ottawa on the whole area so I
9:28have been in Tweed a week
9:30yep the week prior now yeah I think
9:38that's the case since we don't week okay
9:46so if you didn't have the stomach flu on
9:49the Friday
9:50what was your schedule that day right
9:52okay um what would it mean to my
9:57schedule just an escape from the office
9:59okay so Osprey from the morning
10:06because amines I can't remember we're
10:10going to be okay so Thursday night you
10:14slept a tweet or you go right and what
10:18do a Thursday during the day Thursday
10:20during the day I was at the base again I
10:26think it was a pretty standard day I
10:28can't recall exactly but ya know if I
10:33was not fond size little days so I would
10:36have gone in early in the morning back
10:37in the evening again okay do you
10:39remember what time you left the base at
10:40me
10:47I don't remember anything peculiar so I
10:50would say I don't know probably seven to
10:55nine somewhere in that range
10:56that's when you left that's the base
10:59yeah as a 45-minute transit sorry five
11:02minutes huh okay yeah I'm not not going
11:04to walk you through November but I'm
11:06gonna take you to a date that's probably
11:07pretty fresh in your mind the day that
11:09that refrence coma do you remember how
11:13you found out
11:14I do you know sent an email well as soon
11:20as the the off staff and the base
11:22learned they told me okay so I got an
11:26email I can't remember if it was late at
11:27night early in the morning there was
11:28certainly I saw it I want to say first
11:31thing in the morning because I had just
11:33come back from all day long I was gonna
11:35offer her a set of meetings on one of
11:41the days I can't remember what day that
11:43week we're talking on it but ya know I
11:47mean obviously my people gets killed it
11:49it's your attention so absolutely I very
11:52much remember that coming and how did
11:54you know
11:55marie-france Coleman I'd only met her
11:57once she was on a crew I was on just
12:02after I got to the base okay so I can't
12:06remember I think
12:06a one-day trip that I didn't ever Church
12:09in Canada transporting our you know
12:14troops sort of first Lake out of
12:16Edmonton you know we tend to hopscotch
12:19them across until they get a fade or so
12:22and I can't remember what shape it was
12:25but did it number them at cabinets and
12:27just to pick up the troops plane to
12:28Trenton and then put a fresh crew on and
12:32cuz we fly him back in the same day so
12:34I'm personally edge of that fresh crew
12:37and they continue on after a couple
12:39hours of okay do you know roughly when
12:42that happened though we were on the same
12:44crew at the time you matter the one time
12:46there yet it was soon after I left the
12:48base so I don't remember exactly but I
12:52would say in the first couple of months
12:53of August September okay now you got
12:58that email notifying it is something
12:59that happened do you have any kind of a
13:03clear recollection as to how your
13:05schedule was going that week well I
13:10can't remember what again what day that
13:12the message came in just second
13:23I can't remember what day today that
13:25week but I I'm just think there's a
13:28whole bunch of activity spun up as a
13:30result obviously
13:34I can't remember the day of the week
13:43I'm just trying to think through the
13:44news reports I read
13:48I'm sorry I Cameron birthday that was
13:50but
13:55what I what we learned after the fact
13:57was that the the MPs had learnt of her
14:04death I think quite a good after her
14:07body had been discovered okay so I think
14:14would have another service
14:23okay so I think if I remember correctly
14:26the MPS learned late that evening camera
14:30window this area or body was discovered
14:32it's probably the news reports but so
14:35they learned and then they passed it to
14:36offs that the meatman so they a mediated
14:38passed it to me damn he's worked for the
14:41wing operations officer so they go you
14:43know through their chant command and
14:44then as soon as the the duty watch
14:46officer had that information she advised
14:48me okay so again that that longs if it
14:52along with some others right right I'm
14:55sure it's bright like wildfire yes
14:57so that particular week do you have any
15:01recollection well for instance when you
15:03got the email yeah
15:04do you remember where you work I was at
15:07home and tree okay yeah
15:09remember if that was a week that you
15:10were reasonably stable and Trenton or
15:14how'd you know I had been in Ottawa I
15:16had been in Ottawa in the week for some
15:20meetings over in Guyana for the c-17
15:25acquisition I was just a foster for that
15:30okay so I had been here at some point in
15:38that week again I can't remember have
15:39the days all felt together but a senior
15:44member that I got this word shortly
15:47after having come back from Ottawa seems
15:50to me it was the same week so if we were
15:52to to you know do a similar
15:55investigation your background sir
15:58sir anything you can think of that
15:59anybody may have misinterpreted or
16:01anything in your history that somebody
16:03might say Russell Williams did this no
16:07are you very boring
16:10what's that it'll be very boring alright
16:13because essentially that's what I'm
16:14looking at is it you seem like a very
16:19intelligent person and I think you can
16:21see how a surprise like that would
16:24certainly social some alarms all the
16:26best
16:27okay so the next thing we need to cover
16:32off is well I'll just ask you this
16:35straight out given the types of crime
16:36for investigating to get much chance to
16:39uh to watch television shows CSI things
16:42like that I do where I before a long
16:46order but I do occasionally okay so you
16:49have an idea of obviously the forensic
16:50capabilities things like that are out
16:52there what would you be willing to give
16:55me today to help me move past you in
16:58this investigation what what do you need
17:02well would you be willing to supply
17:06things like fingerprints blood samples
17:08like that okay Footwear impressions yeah
17:12okay alright I think that's what we're
17:15gonna ask you to do alright now we have
17:17a process we have to go through to do
17:19that okay and for the blood sample I
17:22don't take the blood sample we have
17:23specially trained officers that are
17:24trained to do that okay I'm gonna step
17:26out and make sure they're still
17:27available can I assume you're gonna be
17:31discreet it's possible yeah because they
17:41thought you thought I did this well
17:43bottom line Russell that's one of the
17:46reasons we're here on a Sunday afternoon
17:48the the military certainly be of great
17:50assistance but to us is especially in
17:52relation to mr. Coleman was
17:54investigation so there's certainly one
17:56of the things that went into our
17:57decision to to give you a call at home
17:58day and see if we could deal with this
18:00today so okay
18:08under the rule its history okay now that
18:19you've had some time to I mean I know
18:20we've been throw a lot of things out you
18:21here but now you've had some time to
18:22think about things is there anything
18:26that you're concerned about that buccal
18:29swab matching in any of those four
18:31residences as a I guess let me explain
18:36you want to get down here muscle okay
18:39this is a significant investigation as
18:41you confirm so as you can well imagine
18:43that that DNA is going to be significant
18:47in our investigation both you know quite
18:50possibly to help you quite possibly to
18:52help us I just I don't know yet resulted
18:54yet and I'll go back to the example I
18:58gave you because a very similar issue I
19:00think and you talked about the idea of
19:04discretion here okay you talked about
19:06the idea that you know you know I think
19:11hopefully appreciate the fact of how we
19:13approach to here it was and essentially
19:16we have no issues with that okay
19:19we talked recently about you know the
19:21whole idea of any unusual sex out to
19:23your history but another thing that can
19:26often happen in cases like this is if
19:29people become concerned about things
19:33like extramarital affairs indiscretions
19:36along those lines is there any contact
19:42you may have had with any of those four
19:44women that you may not want your wife to
19:47be aware of anything like that that we
19:50should know about to try and explain why
19:53if if your DNA is found that could help
19:56us understand why it may be there
19:57absolutely not
19:59can you think of any reason why we would
20:04find your DNA in any other residences
20:06let's let's focus on well for instance
20:08most I believe when we just check the
20:10make sure I've got the right address
20:11talking about the house that was just a
20:13couple of doors down from me there
20:15in Tweed a couple of doors down there's
20:27the woman down the road three doors down
20:29her name is Laurie I'm just make sure
20:33we're on the same page here
20:40my understanding is she lived at the 76
20:42cozy Cove yeah so she would be the one
20:43the second one the second incident I
20:47you're on your road there yeah a couple
20:49of hours young ever been in her house no
20:54we met her once I think the first summer
20:59we were there also 104 okay and that's
21:03what I'm getting at I died again this is
21:05a credibility issue right because I
21:07don't want to come and see you two weeks
21:09from now and say you know rest of our
21:12CSI people in that house and are you
21:15familiar with house key DNA works I
21:18think broadly yes okay one of the
21:22challenges we have in 2010 with DNA is
21:25has become so precise that I guess the
21:30best way to explain it is I can think
21:32back to 15 years ago when I started in
21:34in violent crime investigation yeah for
21:38us to get a DNA match the sample we had
21:40to find was you know probably wouldn't
21:44fill the half of one of these cups you
21:46know because they destroy so much of the
21:47the sample and the testing essentially
21:51DNA has become more and more precise to
21:54the point where when you and I walked in
21:56this room earlier today we could have
21:58sat down talked for 30 seconds walked
22:01out CSI officer could have come in three
22:05four days from now yeah didn't some
22:07swabs here and he would have found your
22:09DNA in my DNA and probably a lot of
22:11other people's DNA sure a little bit
22:13girls to think about but essentially you
22:16know as we talk you know
22:18little bit aspera it comes out of her
22:20moment that that contains our DNA or
22:22blood or our skin cells container DNA
22:24and that's what I'm getting on if you
22:26were ever in Lori's residence quite
22:28possibly
22:29and quite honestly your DNA could be in
22:32that residence is there ever been a time
22:33you've been in there okay what about the
22:38other lady down the road on okay have
22:45you ever visited
22:47marie-france Komal at her residence no
22:49okay all right so you're quite positive
22:52there we no reason why your DNA would be
22:54in use those three locations okay
22:57did you know Jessica Lloyd even in
22:59passing for any reason no I didn't hurt
23:03her here her name so it was on the news
23:04okay the reason I'm asking that is
23:08because I know you were asked that
23:11question on Thursday night and sometimes
23:14what we find and again this is one of
23:15those situations that can sometimes
23:17cause us to get an a lengthy
23:18investigation as somebody that maybe
23:19doesn't deserve it but what can happen
23:22sometimes is they you know somebody gets
23:24stopped by the police I viewed it and
23:26they get asked that question and people
23:30want to stop by the police that can be
23:32nervous okay
23:33so they blurt out an answer and then
23:35they start driving away anything wrong
23:37why'd I do that because the problem is
23:39is that once they get asked again then
23:41they feel compelled to maintain that
23:44answer for fear that if they change
23:47their answer somebody could find it you
23:49understand what I'm saying I do okay so
23:51I want to make sure that's not happening
23:52here I don't care what you said to the
23:53officers on Thursday night and last week
23:54if there's any communication or contact
23:58between you and Jessica Lloyd you've
24:00seen her picture right right now don't
24:01they ever seen her before you mentioned
24:10something about doing some renovations
24:12that you're at your property in Tweed
24:14there I think he said something really
24:17about tearing up carpet correct me if
24:18I'm wrong but three okay when did all
24:20that happen
24:22four or five okay any recent renovations
24:26okay all right just want to show them
24:36covering all the bases here touch hires
24:44do you have on your path finger I think
24:49I think they're toy Gillibrand E or
24:53sorry the an evasive sort of the make is
24:59to you
24:59yeah I'll write read this off to you see
25:07if it rings a bell
25:14ever heard of does Toyo open country HTS
25:18yeah that's 19 cents okay
25:21when did you have those tires put on
25:22your pathfinder well it's the second
25:26version we've had of them so I think it
25:31might have been this past fall they
25:33replaced other ones we had on the same
25:37well Toyota Cameron say that they're the
25:39same exactly the same model but our
25:42dealership here Anonymous's they're very
25:44popular for the Pathfinders okay that's
25:53a I thought you were talking about that
25:55the whole idea of the MPs helping us
25:57with our investigation selya's you have
26:00the same system as we do at our
26:01headquarters with the swipe cards one of
26:04the things one of our investigators did
26:06is they made a call while I was talking
26:08you know because we were trying to work
26:10through that week of the yeah the 23rd
26:12of November okay 23rd be in the Monday
26:1524th be in the Tuesday okay what they've
26:19what they told us is that and I want
26:22make sure to get this right is that on
26:24the 23rd your swipe card was being used
26:28at the base okay okay
26:30on Tuesday 24th there was no use of your
26:33swipe card okay and then on the the
26:35following days the Wednesday Thursday
26:37Friday there was what appeared to be
26:39average activity just white card base
26:42does that make sense to you it does that
26:44says that I was in Ottawa on the Tuesday
26:46okay do you remember where in Ottawa you
26:49work yeah I was in get know with as I
26:52said meeting about the c-17 okay now
26:58again I want to be fair you never going
27:00back two months are you sure that would
27:02have been the day you were in Ottawa
27:04well only because I wasn't at the pace
27:08okay so I I can't remember honestly but
27:12that's the day I had the meeting in
27:13Ottawa but
27:15I wasn't at the base it was because I
27:16was here okay now if that is the day I
27:19had a meeting in Ottawa do you remember
27:21being at the base on the Monday the 23rd
27:25and swiping your card in a note do you
27:27remember what you would have done that
27:28evening to get to Ottawa for that
27:30meeting
27:30like would it be I drove to Ottawa in
27:35the morning of the day of my meeting so
27:37if it was the Tuesday that I would have
27:38left to eat it was a very foggy morning
27:45okay so I would not have been at the
27:47base the day I was in because the
27:51meeting started at 8:00 okay so you
27:54leave the base you would have went home
27:56to to your residence in Tweed and then
28:00you left we in the morning and drove up
28:01communion all off okay you leave the
28:04meeting in Ottawa is a daytime meeting
28:07EP meeting or remember yeah it was a
28:10daytime meeting finished okay we had
28:14lunch and then finished I think my wife
28:17and I had dinner because she was here
28:19for work in that I had it done
28:20okay well that's these are the kind of
28:24things I'm trying to draw out here
28:25that's helpful to us do you remember
28:27where you had dinner well I don't
28:31remember that restaurant but it was in
28:32Westborough because that's where our
28:34house was being built at the time so we
28:35had dinner you know in a restaurant that
28:38we would expect to be able to frequent
28:41and what's that was a session okay you
28:44paid one of us would've paid by
28:47MasterCard okay all right are you sure
28:49about that car pretty sure that's
28:51normally how we pay for meals all right
28:55Herbert was me here my wife the paid one
28:57of us okay and you remember which
28:59restaurant it was again no all right and
29:02you see where I'm getting at right I
29:03mean that can be very helpful for us
29:06because if we can track yeah
29:07that issue we can we can put somebody
29:10paying for a meal at a location I was
29:12meeting with 15 people are so that day
29:15so okay what time did the meeting end I
29:20would say between 3:00 and 4:00 okay and
29:24are you sure that that's the same day
29:26you went out with your wife well I think
29:32so yeah because she was here and I think
29:38that was the day we went to this
29:39restaurant was furious okay
29:42you finished dinner and you remember
29:45what you did that evening okay and you
29:49would have now again I I know we're
29:53talking two months ago here with you a
29:54number specifically having dinner and
29:56then driving back to tweet or remember
29:58are you just guessing here no I'm not
30:03really guessing I mean I believe that
30:06this night at this restaurant was
30:07following the meetings in Ottawa hmm and
30:10I kiss my wife goodbye and headed back
30:14to tweet so go to work the next day okay
30:18all right the the tires that you have on
30:23your truck right the reason I asked
30:24about that is sir
30:25is there any time I mean you recall
30:29where you were stopped by the officers
30:31there yes did they explain to you what
30:34the significance of those are gross that
30:36was her house anyway she remember that
30:38location yep remember what the cross
30:39road was or I don't think there was a
30:42cross was sort of just the south end of
30:4537 okay when you get stopped at that
30:49location has there been a time in the
30:52recent one or two weeks that your
30:55vehicle has left that role for any
30:58reason whatsoever have you driven into a
31:00field with your vehicle at all and for
31:03any reason you can think of no okay
31:06so I want to get a rack your brain here
31:08this is important okay is there anything
31:10you can remember doing that you know
31:13what caused you to drive off the road no
31:16at that section of roadway
31:18now that's my early that's the great
31:20part of the highway and just have know
31:23if it's about 30 minutes from there to
31:25probably 20 from there to my house okay
31:30would it surprise you to know that when
31:33the CSI officers were looking around her
31:36property that they identified a set of
31:40tire tracks to the north of her property
31:44looks as if the vehicle left the road
31:47and drove along the North tree line of
31:50Jessica Lloyd's property okay they took
31:54they examine those tire tracks and they
31:59have contacts in the tire business
32:01obviously tire tracks are a major source
32:04of evidence for us sir shortly after
32:07this investigation started they
32:10identified those tires as the same tires
32:13on your Pathfinder really yeah okay okay
32:18one of the other one of the other things
32:21that they do to try and identify the
32:22type of vehicle that may have left those
32:24tires
32:24well is they do two things they talk to
32:26witnesses okay there was a female police
32:31officer that actually drove by that
32:32location that evening and recalls seeing
32:35an SUV type vehicle in the field up to
32:38the north of Jessica Lloyd's house
32:40consistent with a a Pathfinder okay it
32:43may be consistent with other things
32:44because there's a very hot fighter and
32:47the what they also do to try and
32:50identify the type of the vehicle is they
32:52look at what they call the wheelbase
32:54width okay because different vehicles
32:56different makes models have wheel base
32:57width so they can take those two sets of
32:59tire tracks measure the distance between
33:01them okay and determine what the the
33:05width is sure and then they can enter
33:07that into a vehicle database and it will
33:08spit out the types of vehicles okay
33:11your pathfinders wheel base width is
33:14very very close to the width of the of
33:18the tires that were left in that field
33:20okay do you have any recollection at all
33:25of being off that
33:27okay Russell is there anything you can
33:35think of let's go talk about Murray
33:37friend's coma for a minute okay hmm
33:39is there any reason at all you can think
33:42of that
33:44during our investigation obviously we're
33:47searching computers things like
33:50blackberries writing electronic devices
33:53looking through houses for things that
33:56are in handwriting written notes Diaries
33:58things like that and I'm not at liberty
34:00to tell you what the content was but is
34:02there any reasonable you can think of
34:04why
34:05marie-france coma would have
34:07specifically reference you and some of
34:10her some of her writings okay is there
34:19anything that she ever said to you that
34:21led you to believe it or not agree
34:22something more than a passing interest
34:24with her towards you no no no we spend
34:28you know one fight together talking I'd
34:31go back occasionally and talk know if
34:37that's the case that's it that's very
34:39present okay all right you have any
34:42questions for me right now no I'm just
34:45gonna step out and see how things are
34:46going okay I mean it is a Sunday but
34:48there's probably 60 70 people working on
34:49this file so there's a lot of things
34:51happening sure
34:52so let me go out and see what's
34:53happening and then I'll I'll come back
34:54in and hopefully continue all right I
34:57told you when I came in here that I'm
34:59not treated with respect and I've asked
35:01you to do the same for me we talked
35:05about the whole idea of how we've
35:07approached you here okay
35:09the trying to be as just read as
35:12possible okay but the problem is Russell
35:15is every time I walk out of this room
35:17there's another issue that comes up okay
35:19and it's not issues that point away from
35:22you it's issues that point at you
35:23okay and I want to I want you to see
35:25what I mean all right this is the
35:32footwear impression of the person who
35:36approached the rear of Jessica Lloyd's
35:40house on the evening of the 28th and
35:4329th of January okay all right now I
35:47want you to keep in mind that this is
35:48slightly smaller okay in scale okay okay
35:52all right that's not to scale
35:53that's the footwear is actually bigger
35:55if you look here on the ruler you'll see
35:58that one inch is just slightly smaller
36:00than actual age okay but this is the way
36:02it prints off on the computer yeah move
36:06this over so you can see what I mean all
36:08right essentially when you're dealing
36:09with Footwear impressions we have a
36:12gentleman on the OPP who's basically
36:14world-renowned
36:15his name is John Norman and essentially
36:18with Footwear impressions you're in a
36:20situation where you're you're pretty
36:22much in the area of a finger prints okay
36:25and essentially what we're talking about
36:28here is well especially when you start
36:29adding in other pieces of information
36:31and support and investigative position
36:35okay this is a photocopy of the boot
36:43that you took off your foot
36:45yeah just a little while ago okay now
36:48I'm not an expert in Footwear
36:50impressions so I rely on the experts
36:53Footwear impressions are very much like
36:55like fingerprint comparisons okay you
36:59take a look at this print and again this
37:01is one print this person walked through
37:03there's several different prints to
37:04compare separating it features off a one
37:07print to compare features offer another
37:08printing compare yeah these are
37:11identical
37:18your vehicle drove up the side of
37:20Jessica Lloyd's house your boots walked
37:25to the back of Jessica Lloyd's house on
37:27the evening of the 28th and 29th of
37:29January okay you want discretion we need
37:34to have some honesty okay
37:37because this is this is getting out of
37:39control really fast Russell okay really
37:43really fast
37:46[Music]
37:59this is getting beyond my control all
38:04right I came in here a few hours ago and
38:07I called you about cause your day
38:10because I wanted to give you the benefit
38:11out mm-hmm but you and I both know
38:14you're at Jessica Lloyd's house and I
38:17need to know why
38:25[Music]
38:51well you need to explain it because this
38:54is the other problem for having Russell
38:56okay
38:56again these decisions are made by me
38:58right now there's a search warrant being
39:05your wife knows what's going on you and
39:16I both know they're going to find
39:17evidence that links you to these
39:21situations you and I both know that the
39:26unknown offender male leave transform
39:32wills body it's going to be matched to
39:34you
39:35quite possibly before the evening is
39:37over okay this is a major investigation
39:41the centre of Forensic Sciences on call
39:4324 hours a day helping us with us your
39:48opportunity to take some control here
39:50and to have some explanation that
39:54anybody is going to believe is quickly
40:00expiring mm-hmm okay we're applying the
40:06investigators now applying for a warrant
40:09to search your office
40:12these aren't decisions that we can say
40:15yes or no to this is a practical steps
40:17and in an investigation like this and
40:21Russell
40:42Russell mmm listen to me for a second
40:46okay now the evidence comes in when I
40:49see any match on that phone rings and
40:51somebody knocks on this door your
40:55credibility is gone okay because this is
40:58how credibility works all right and I
41:00know you're an intelligent person and
41:01you probably don't need to hear this
41:02explanation but I also know your minds
41:04racing right now
41:05okay XO side across a lot of people in
41:08your position over the years okay
41:10the bottom line is is it as soon as we
41:13get that that piece of evidence that
41:15solidifies it mmm DNA okay as soon as
41:19the experts and footwear impressions the
41:22expert and tire impressions calls and
41:24says yes I may examine those and they're
41:28a match
41:28mm-hmm it's all over because as soon as
41:32that happens where's your credibility
41:36where's your believability
41:38you're just another and again don't take
41:42this wrong okay but you can see if you
41:45step outside this room in your mind and
41:47imagine how people are going to view you
41:50okay if the truth comes out after the
41:54clear evidence is presented to you when
41:57you finally go okay I'm screwed now
42:01mm-hmm what are we gonna go
42:12Russell
42:14you know there's only one option what do
42:16you what do you what other option is
42:18there
42:18what's the ocean well I don't think you
42:22want the cold blooded psychopath option
42:24I might be wrong because I don't get me
42:34wrong I've met guys who actually kind of
42:36enjoyed the notoriety got off on it got
42:40off on having that label Bernardo being
42:43one of them I don't see that in you I
42:46saw that in you I wouldn't be back in
42:48you're talking to you quite frankly but
42:57maybe I'm wrong maybe you got me fooled
42:59I don't know
43:06this is over
43:09and it can have a bad ending where
43:15Jessica's parents continue to wonder
43:19where her daughter's lying
43:26and I don't know I mean obviously
43:28there's a huge search still underway and
43:31it'll continue that'll continue until
43:35her body's found that might even happen
43:41tonight for all I know once that happens
43:48then I don't know whether cards you
43:50would have to play
43:59what are we gonna do
44:32as
44:43tell me Russ please
44:49I'm hideous
45:16it's Jessica somewhere we can find her
45:18easily I guess it's something where I
45:22can make a call and tell somebody to go
45:23to a location and they're gonna find her
45:25or is this something where we have to go
45:26and take a walk
45:55which direction are we heading in here
46:41Bres maybe maybe this would help can you
46:45tell me what the issue is you're
46:47struggling with
47:13what is your struggle
48:18that's hard to believe this is not
48:24why is
48:49why is it hard to believe
49:10it's just hard to believe
49:18whose decision was it and we're gonna
49:22find out the answer for this anyway but
49:24the decision was it to issue the
49:27directive to the base personnel that
49:30nobody had to speak to the police and to
49:32seek legal counsel before they were
49:33questioned
49:37it's my initial thing that was my
49:40understanding that direction came from
49:41somebody that reports to you what do you
49:45think they're gonna say well rest no
49:48what do you think they're gonna say all
49:50right and let's let's step back for a
49:52second here okay I really don't think it
49:56benefits you or makes you look any
49:57better to start debating a little issues
49:59all right but that is news to me
50:01okay I have a legal officer that reports
50:03to me yeah who may have given that
50:06direction well that's the first time
50:08I've heard if that's true that's first
50:09time I've heard that all right
50:10and that may be the case but how does it
50:13look
50:19we're not even dealing with something
50:20that's really even evidence because it's
50:22not needed I mean we're gonna have DNA
50:24and all this other stuff that's not even
50:27what was an immersion I don't recall
50:29but it was something along the lines of
50:31telling the people on the base that they
50:33didn't they weren't required illegally
50:36to speak with police and they should
50:37seek legal counsel before they chose to
50:39speak but well if that was if that was
50:41actually said it would not have been to
50:43the base at large it it may have been to
50:45the individual the boyfriend who is the
50:48suspect my understanding it went out to
50:51all personnel no ifs maybe it may be no
50:53only under your command I don't know the
50:54do head okay that's why I didn't ever
50:56see it that's fine now let's get back to
50:58the issue what's that
50:59so you talk about perception I need to
51:02immediate concerns for a perception
51:04perspective are what my wife must be
51:08gone through right now yeah and the
51:11impact this is gonna have on the
51:13Canadian Forces where do we go
51:32Russ is there anything you want from me
51:36is there anything you want me to explain
51:40there's something missing the you're
51:42struggling with that I can shed some
51:44light on for you I'm struggling with how
51:53upset my life is right now breasts what
51:58are you looking for
52:07I'm concerned that they're tearing apart
52:10my wife's brand-new house so my but if
52:15nobody tells them what's there what's
52:19not they don't have a choice computers
52:24will be brought to Microsoft in
52:26California they'll be they'll be picked
52:29apart you can't erase things from
52:32computers it doesn't happen I'm sure
52:35you've seen that I'm sure that's pretty
52:37common knowledge these days it just
52:38doesn't happen
52:39there's b-cell programs that to try and
52:43help people clean their computers of
52:45stuff and our guys are pulling that
52:48stuff out all the time
52:49the FBI is pulling that stuff out all
52:50the time
53:00this investigation will end up costing
53:03no less than ten million dollars easy
53:11and they will say no to nothing
53:15any requests this major case manager
53:19makes on this case they've already been
53:21told it's approved don't even bother
53:24asking
53:55so what am i doing rest I put my best
54:00foot forward here for you but
54:08I really have I don't I don't know what
54:11else to do to make make you understand
54:13the impact of what's happening here
54:33did we talk
54:37Oh
54:42minimize the impact on my life so do I
54:49so we do that Wow
54:53we start by telling the truth
55:22it's okay
55:26so where is she
55:52you should close to her she lives I've
55:55got maps of that general area
56:01which town a senior why don't we start
56:03there
56:09I'm not sure if you give me a map of
56:13that covers caliber the highway and or
56:20did tweed sorry let me see what I got
56:25here I might have something
56:27is she inside outside
56:56that's probably the biggest area have
56:58their press so where am I going on the
57:04UH here to get to her this blonde hair
57:09okay so you're pointing to and detailed
57:13map of that area uh she's okay she close
57:16to a road yeah all right
57:21this is something where is she is she
57:24buried or if she's somewhere where if
57:25you walked there you but he would fairly
57:27easily see her ends here okay so she's
57:31self to seven East to Tweed West to 41
57:36and what's this road here I'm not sure
57:41neither am i okay I'll be right back
57:45okay do any water anything sure okay how
57:54long has she been there for a little
58:01over a week was it fairly quick from the
58:04time she left
58:07it's Friday night Friday night yeah so
58:12where was she between Thursday night
58:13Friday night and tweet with you yeah how
58:19long was she live for
58:26almost 24 hours not going
58:31well you know the right thing here well
58:39again my interest her family as well
58:48we shouldn't let's just no your time in
58:52Ottawa is wasted really I'll tell you
58:54where they they're mr. Carter where are
58:57they they're in the house there of it in
59:01Ottawa
59:02yeah whereabouts
59:06summing the camera bag which they would
59:08have found in my office and in the when
59:12you walk into the office on the left
59:14side there's a district drawers that
59:20drawers like a filing cabinet wouldn't
59:24like you in one of the top two drawers
59:27and there's a plastic divider yeah and
59:32there's inside there there are two
59:35memory cards okay which are blank and
59:39I'm sure they can be read and whose
59:42images are on those parts well I've
59:46erased them that I expected
59:50you'll be able to draw images of just
59:53can I
59:55don't worry
1:00:04there may be images on there's one and
1:00:08the tailor from September yeah do you
1:00:13have those images stored anywhere else
1:00:19yep there are two hard drives in the
1:00:23house in Ottawa I can't draw you over at
1:00:27your site do you want to do that now on
1:01:04[Applause]
1:01:32you make
1:01:51somebody run around looking for actual
1:01:53map but I didn't say anything with the
1:01:58Google Maps receptively them up a little
1:01:59bit more this is the this is the biggest
1:02:09of the area this might have better
1:02:14primers for you first tweet and what
1:02:36role does that carry you know south up I
1:02:40read that word east Hungerford sounding
1:02:46sense well there it is there
1:02:49how far off the road is she forty feet
1:02:53she buried she covered with anything
1:02:57just wrapped up it was on the surface
1:03:02agree
1:03:07very the obvious question I'm gonna have
1:03:09for he is and they go there and they'll
1:03:15be there shortly
1:03:15they're gonna find her okay I'm right
1:03:19back know how you want to say something
1:03:24just that the this place my wife it's
1:03:28been a dream for the better part of a
1:03:30year so I'm keen to get them what they
1:03:33need and so they okay ordering armed or
1:03:37best keep that as low-key as possible
1:03:39what do you want to talk about well do
1:03:49you want to work forwards or backwards
1:03:55why don't we start with Jessica how does
1:04:00that start for you
1:04:05I saw her in her house on our trip not
1:04:12Winston Eddie's
1:04:17and I noticed she wasn't there Thursday
1:04:24so getting the house look around
1:04:32then and they left
1:04:37does she come home
1:04:41so I pack him
1:04:46through the back patio door while she
1:04:50was sleeping
1:05:07so I woke her up
1:05:21didn't end in here all right here what's
1:05:26Friday
1:05:44okay
1:05:51well so I raped her in in her house and
1:05:59then I took her to the car and took her
1:06:01to tweet
1:06:15and
1:06:20spent the day in Tweed
1:06:28and I hit her as we were walking she
1:06:32thought we were leaving
1:06:38here at the back
1:06:50okay
1:06:55particular well um what did they hit on
1:06:59the back of the head - well I was
1:07:06surprised at her her skull gave way the
1:07:13unconscious strangler
1:07:20what did you hit her with flashlights
1:07:24okay in the house or outside the house
1:07:27nose
1:07:36we're in the house this happened in the
1:07:40main portion just from the fireplace
1:07:43what do you mean the fine signs in it
1:07:45knows quite a bit expected I'd expected
1:07:49to knock her out
1:07:54but obviously generated about a blood
1:07:56what did she bleed onto before it's just
1:08:02okay
1:08:03did you clean it up Burgess pondered
1:08:10what makes you think that like if I
1:08:14walked in that house for you and if I
1:08:16see it wouldn't see it at all
1:08:22I'll show it I'm sure okay um so when
1:08:26that happened was she did she have
1:08:28clothes on or was she naked or she was
1:08:30dressed okay so when we find her is she
1:08:33gonna have those clothes on to it
1:08:36all right okay marie-france coma
1:08:53there was an open window in the basement
1:08:55of her her house when she was away I
1:09:00went in there couple of nights before
1:09:03she came home around
1:09:11I'm packing there late at night when she
1:09:14was at home she's on the phone on her
1:09:17bigger
1:09:24she actually discovered me in the
1:09:26basement
1:09:29she was trying to get her cat to come
1:09:31upstairs and the cat was in the basement
1:09:34that see me let's fixated on me in the
1:09:36corner she couldn't get the cat up so
1:09:40she came downstairs to try and get the
1:09:43cat and I'm not orange sure why she came
1:09:48over to me I guess the cat was staring
1:09:50at me and she was wondering with Keva
1:09:51staring at what's wrong
1:10:04so when she spotted me
1:10:09and the same flashlight I subdued her
1:10:17tied up upstairs
1:10:27and strangled her
1:10:34later than 1
1:10:39or suffocated her some tape
1:10:53laughter there
1:11:00how did you subdue her when you say
1:11:02subdued her in the basement what'd you
1:11:03do
1:11:05well I had the same flashlight and
1:11:15she she saw me right away so it's just I
1:11:18hit her a couple of times around her
1:11:21head try and knock her out didn't but
1:11:26she was cleaning all of it
1:11:34eventually
1:11:37Chris struggles ajudar
1:11:44okay any blood from from that struggle
1:11:47oh yeah no I'm not not a whole bunch but
1:11:52flashlights it breakers in a couple of
1:11:55times okay what area of the basement did
1:11:59that take place in I was hiding behind
1:12:04the furnace so she spotted me right
1:12:07there okay she recognized you know I
1:12:11stuff on my face
1:12:23um
1:12:25so then you go upstairs and you said she
1:12:28suffocated well I so get her a tape on
1:12:32her I put tape on her mouth help the
1:12:42dancers to breathe
1:12:51what kind of tape was it
1:12:57what happened to it
1:13:03with me
1:13:13and can't remember what actually I do to
1:13:14that take that probably threw it in the
1:13:17garbage
1:13:20did you use tape for any other purposes
1:13:32did she ever recognize you through this
1:13:34whole episode what did you say you had
1:13:37on your face
1:13:40hi just a cover for my head is too you
1:13:44know sports pulled over tape Thank You
1:13:49cap nothing something
1:14:00yeah
1:14:03stay in bed / moster they put my eyes
1:14:13um now this flashlight where is that now
1:14:17tree and now what kind of flashlight is
1:14:21it so red 3tt flashlights very slow
1:14:49did you take anything out of refrences
1:14:53house for Jessica Lloyd's house yeah
1:14:57some of their anyway okay mom worries
1:15:03out
1:15:13it's in some boxes in the basement here
1:15:18a tunnel and a trick room so we just
1:15:22went into their boxes everywhere
1:15:23so on the same side is the furnished
1:15:25room at the back against the wall okay
1:15:30what are the other boxers will click I
1:15:36think one's a scanner with logs for my
1:15:39scanner mm-hm
1:15:42there they're all right next to each
1:15:44other so it's like three boxes there
1:15:50how much underwear was in those boxes
1:16:00sixty pieces are some haul limits and
1:16:05sixty pieces of there's up hoops of
1:16:10Jessica's and
1:16:17so you took sixty pieces from between
1:16:20the two of them okay all right and
1:16:26they're in a likely toggle scanners at a
1:16:28computer scanner box my computer's
1:16:30scanner is up in the office and it's box
1:16:32is down in the basement so okay it's
1:16:34inside that box any of the underwear in
1:16:37those boxes belong to anyone other than
1:16:39refrence or or Jessica
1:16:48yeah there's some from each of the other
1:16:51okay
1:16:55why don't we talk about those two women
1:16:57so the first one happened on the 16th
1:17:00and I don't know why I can't recall the
1:17:04names but believe it was a little closer
1:17:09to know okay so the first the first one
1:17:20I mean I just spotted her from our cash
1:17:27flow
1:17:31and I got into the house while she was
1:17:33asleep knows that she was alone
1:17:41and
1:17:44just here with my hand while she was
1:17:46sleeping
1:17:52subdued her
1:17:56mostly just by weight
1:18:07better take off her pajamas took some
1:18:12pictures some of our underwear I left
1:18:20and the other woman
1:18:25and through the back of the house
1:18:30she was sleeping in her bedroom editor
1:18:35from TV alright much the same story
1:18:45anything different about that story oh
1:18:47yeah pretty much same story and exactly
1:18:49the same story or two different things
1:18:51right yeah no not much different at all
1:18:55I did have the flashlight that time
1:19:07subdued earth I would
1:19:11took our clothes took some pictures in
1:19:13left
1:19:21why do you think these things happen
1:19:38let me spend much time thinking about
1:19:40that y-yeah yeah
1:19:49but the answers
1:19:57and I'm pretty sure the answers don't
1:19:58matter
1:20:00I mean let me ask you this did you like
1:20:02or dislike these women I didn't know any
1:20:09okay I had met a be fast at one time and
1:20:15that in our airplane okay no but I get I
1:20:19guess one yeah when you're going through
1:20:20these things are you good well let's
1:20:26talk about Jessica because she was there
1:20:28with you for the whole day right what
1:20:31kind of feelings were you experiencing
1:20:33while you were with her that day
1:20:50oh she's fresh huh
1:21:02can you tell me why you killed right do
1:21:06you know what you killed well I think I
1:21:08killed her because I knew that
1:21:20her story would be recognized
1:21:28her story would be recognized how do you
1:21:30mean well because you know I was taking
1:21:33pictures
1:21:43so because of the two
1:21:49stories tweet
1:21:54that would have been a fairly
1:21:59and create office
1:22:04so if you didn't take pictures what
1:22:06would you have done with her I don't
1:22:12know
1:22:12I mean she's at your house right oh my
1:22:19let me ask you this is it too late right
1:22:25to die
1:22:26what's what was the difference in your
1:22:29mind between well yeah the attention the
1:22:35first to God was very much focused on
1:22:44obviously for obvious reasons pictures I
1:22:49took
1:22:54so anybody else telling stories about
1:22:57pictures right from the straight line
1:23:08okay but when when this thing happened
1:23:11was Murray Fonz there was was did you up
1:23:15believing you were already a suspect for
1:23:18what happened in sweet no so what what
1:23:24were you concerned about well the case
1:23:37I was pretty sure that you know she was
1:23:42serving military right it would have
1:23:46been it would have been difficult for
1:23:50investigators to ignore that connection
1:23:59yeah make sense
1:24:05let's go back to Jessica then okay see
1:24:11her on the Wednesday night okay on our
1:24:14treadmill how do you see her okay do did
1:24:28you stop to look at the house or how
1:24:31does that catch your eye as you drive by
1:24:32oh I was looking to see who was who is
1:24:37where area very well so I'm just keeping
1:24:43my eyes open
1:24:48so he's spider on the way and say yeah
1:24:51do you just keep on going or did you
1:24:54just stop and take a closer look that
1:24:56night or anything okay and you went back
1:25:01on the Thursday night right yeah so back
1:25:08on the Thursday night and you went you
1:25:10went into the house before she came home
1:25:12she was out
1:25:27yeah she was a got in through the
1:25:31kitchen window somehow everything else
1:25:34was long
1:25:38okay so you're in there doing what look
1:25:44around look around to see who lived in
1:25:46the house it was just her okay
1:25:53and then what do you do
1:26:01well I left the house
1:26:05and
1:26:15she came home
1:26:18that was very long
1:26:22so much for a little bit to see if she
1:26:24was on she was
1:26:40when she went back to sleep I said
1:26:41Wesley
1:26:46so you go in she's sleeping and what do
1:26:50you do well I snuck up to the side of
1:26:57her bed expecting to
1:27:07try to knocker it
1:27:11she woke up
1:27:16but she did as I said
1:27:20sure what did you say
1:27:25let's lie down on your tummy
1:27:29okay she did tell her
1:27:32but Cheryl
1:27:39so she's on your stomach how are you
1:27:41tying around her hands behind her back
1:27:44okay she got clothes on at that point
1:27:49mm-hmm what kind of clothes sweats right
1:27:57tie your hands behind her back and then
1:27:58then what happens I took her clothes off
1:28:06okay
1:28:17and then what happened
1:28:22I richer
1:28:27a rape could mean a lot of different
1:28:29things what kind of sexual act took
1:28:31place
1:28:38gradual and oral
1:28:44Aurel who was performing the oral sex
1:28:54beyond her and any any condoms used or
1:29:02anything like that so they can get
1:29:08correctly from vaginal intercourse or
1:29:13plant performing oral sex on you and you
1:29:14performing oral sex on her remember what
1:29:17order those things included yeah I
1:29:24started with the oral sex
1:29:30then I raped her
1:29:37for a monastic something
1:29:42anything any kind of conversation
1:29:44happening when this is going on yeah a
1:29:50little bit what was being said
1:29:56well I threatened her before she before
1:30:01I had her perform oral sex what did you
1:30:08say well I put a zip tie around her neck
1:30:18then I report if I didn't play quick
1:30:20Sheila Jo okay
1:30:26so she did what you told her to do any
1:30:29issues there any reason to pull it so do
1:30:38you remember if you ejaculated at that
1:30:39point or at any point that point good
1:30:43later on okay so the oral sex finishes
1:30:48and then what happens next
1:30:55well I continue
1:31:02sorry Kurt and I had her put on some of
1:31:04her underwear took some pictures lots
1:31:09pictures
1:31:12and then got her dressed bad teacher
1:31:20okay at what point did you decide that
1:31:23she was gonna leave with you
1:31:32I'm not sure I wasn't necessarily always
1:31:36the plan
1:31:41but at some point I was there for
1:31:50three
1:31:52three hours three in a bit
1:32:00okay
1:32:05do you remember the conversation about
1:32:07leaving was there any she's saying
1:32:10anything about that or what was she
1:32:12saying to you she was certainly
1:32:21cooperate
1:32:24okay
1:32:32a cooperative can mean a number of
1:32:34different things was she excitable
1:32:36leaving with you I don't be sarcastic
1:32:38but no no she just didn't put too much
1:32:41of a fuss did she try and negotiate with
1:32:43you at all or what did she say well I
1:32:49told her that I would let her go okay
1:32:59when you take her out of your house as
1:33:01she is she still found her yep
1:33:04how was that done just hands behind her
1:33:08back
1:33:09I put her feet anything there she was
1:33:14walking freezing yeah barefoot or no no
1:33:18she had those brown switches on it had
1:33:22been reported okay
1:33:27so where does she sit in your truck when
1:33:29you get to a trauma front seat passenger
1:33:32side okay and where do you go straight
1:33:38to tweet you straight to your house and
1:33:41tweet or show you just the town do that
1:33:44no stops anywhere okay what time do you
1:33:47remember what time you arrived there I
1:33:53don't exactly but I'd say between 4:30
1:33:56and 5:30
1:34:05and you were you were first there before
1:34:07she came home do you remember did
1:34:10anybody come to the door at all when you
1:34:12were in the house no I think somebody
1:34:17had come home that's something to come
1:34:19to the house just before she did
1:34:20cuz I thought it was her but then they
1:34:23left I was outside good to see who that
1:34:27person was or what kind of vehicle they
1:34:28were and everything saw the lights nice
1:34:31you knew for sure and then also okay
1:34:37where were you when that first vehicle
1:34:40pulled up in the back back here okay so
1:34:44you didn't have a view of the vehicle
1:34:47you just tell if there was a vehicle
1:34:48there some carrots okay so you get home
1:34:53but 4:35 you say and then what happens
1:35:04uh well she just bathroom shower
1:35:15Washington
1:35:18and we went into my bedroom
1:35:27to sleep a little bit she was tired
1:35:34how was she tied up at that point the
1:35:36other day I put tape over her eyes from
1:35:42the beginning so that's
1:35:49when they fight or is that tape going to
1:35:51be there or was it ever removed what
1:35:57kind of tape all right
1:36:03the duct tape they used was where's that
1:36:07rule it's all gone I used it to I use
1:36:14the rest of it to provide her on her
1:36:19body
1:36:23so by all gone is it is it with the body
1:36:26now okay so you said who went to sleep
1:36:30when you came home you had a show her
1:36:32she had a shower we both went to sleep
1:36:40but she was tied up and I tied the rope
1:36:52I'm trying to picture and that would be
1:36:54so the ropes tied to what on her it's
1:36:57tied her hands behind her back okay and
1:37:01and then the Rope just wrapped around me
1:37:04couple of times so there's no slack okay
1:37:07remember how long you stopped for it oh
1:37:10well maybe a couple hours do you know if
1:37:14she slept I don't know
1:37:19okay so you wake up and I was up and
1:37:23down so it wasn't to our straightens
1:37:26that's who wears a bit much sleep just
1:37:35so you get up from that and what happens
1:37:38next
1:37:46she got a seizure
1:37:54she felt that coming on and because she
1:38:00had some before
1:38:06blast it
1:38:10quite a while better dressed
1:38:15to the family room
1:38:24anyway she
1:38:27she recovered she got it was the stress
1:38:37but
1:38:42probably
1:38:44what we went on for a 15 minutes
1:38:56so yeah how do you know she had them
1:38:59before she told me did she tell you why
1:39:02she gets them well she suggested the
1:39:05stress yeah so she felt herself start to
1:39:11tense up and said she thought she was
1:39:14gonna have a seizure
1:39:22you know so I shake this she was lips
1:39:26convulsions
1:39:33so she was good go bro cover from that
1:39:35yep she stayed with her and talked to
1:39:38her
1:39:41sure she dyed her tongue
1:39:49okay
1:39:53and then what happened well let me have
1:39:57a little lie-down right there cuz she
1:39:58was exhausted cover over her went to
1:40:08sleep
1:40:13for an hour or so and I had told her
1:40:17earlier that before I let her go I
1:40:20wanted to take some pictures of her in
1:40:23her underwear
1:40:33have sex with her
1:40:43so after she had a rest for an hour or
1:40:47so
1:40:50later
1:40:57remember different have fish in I'm
1:41:01sorry put on a number you know pairs
1:41:05panties bra yeah I got taken from that
1:41:14so she put those on and I took pictures
1:41:21are you in any of these pictures yep
1:41:29what what kind of what kind of images
1:41:32are you in
1:41:44well I'm with her there's on the hard
1:41:49drives you'll see there's video as well
1:41:50so there was video of the
1:42:00almost four hours eNOS I have what
1:42:12well
1:42:20initially at her place of raping her
1:42:31yes I was running the video and then
1:42:35taking still pictures so the video
1:42:37pretty much covers Deveny
1:42:41did you use video at other places is
1:42:50that video on the hard drives
1:42:52same type of activity yep all I didn't
1:42:59ever put on
1:43:04so Jessica poses for these pictures and
1:43:08there's videos and and then what happens
1:43:17then I got her dressed she thought she
1:43:22was leaving
1:43:28food
1:43:32and as we were walking out struck her on
1:43:35the back there
1:43:39I want you to decide to do that
1:43:59well I was pretty sure that I was gonna
1:44:03literally butt
1:44:11the idea of streaking around the head
1:44:13was developed in the afternoon
1:44:21and what was that strike supposed to
1:44:23accomplish in your mind what was the
1:44:25intent of doing that well I thought I
1:44:29would be able to knock her out and then
1:44:31I was going to strengthen her okay so
1:44:37when you actually do strike her what's
1:44:39the result
1:44:42her skull gave way a little bit it felt
1:44:47like there was a lot of blood I think
1:44:50that's what happened
1:45:06and then I strangled her
1:45:11how'd you strangler the same rope it's
1:45:18better on her neck okay well she was
1:45:22unconscious
1:45:28now what happened to the zip tie that
1:45:30was around her neck earlier I took it
1:45:37off
1:45:43around innings
1:45:50did you take it off before you put the
1:45:51rope around her neck or after remember
1:45:53after she was dead okay so the zip tie
1:45:58was around her neck while you used the
1:46:00Rope did you leave the rope around her
1:46:03neck
1:46:06and how did you know she was dead
1:46:16she
1:46:22our body stop the leak
1:46:31so why did you do after that I might
1:46:37pound her up
1:46:43field position
1:46:54and cleaned up before
1:47:11obviously you bound her up is how you
1:47:13referring to the duct tape that you
1:47:14talked about earlier okay so then why
1:47:17did you I put her in the garage it was
1:47:28very cold
1:47:34and then I'm gonna do the bass
1:47:38okay
1:47:42how'd you go to the base hurt me why did
1:47:45you go to the face because I was okay so
1:47:50what time did you leave to go to the
1:47:52face I told you there between nine and
1:47:57ten or so on the Friday night yeah okay
1:48:02so you fly
1:48:12so which language of Saturday so you
1:48:17land and what time you're landing six
1:48:22six three okay
1:48:23did you go by the house and tweet on
1:48:26your way down tomorrow no so you drove
1:48:31straight home to Ottawa what time did
1:48:34you get there at remember time before
1:48:37midnight remember I think I went in the
1:48:40office first it did some work so I think
1:48:53I slept for a little bit at the Tim
1:48:58Hortons in Brookville
1:49:04okay midnight-ish Saturday mm-hmm
1:49:21so you get home here in Ottawa what do
1:49:25you do though it's go to bed or okay
1:49:27stay up okay so then what do you do the
1:49:30next day my wife and I did some stuff I
1:49:38can't remember what what was going on
1:49:42that day house
1:49:50and I headed back to tweed night
1:49:56Sorry Sorry
1:50:01now I didn't buy it I had Monday off
1:50:06that's right babe mother huff and then I
1:50:09was visiting one of the units in Ottawa
1:50:11on Tuesday so didn't head back to tweet
1:50:14for Tuesday okay
1:50:22get back to tweet and what happens
1:50:26Thanks I took Jessica's body to that
1:50:32spunk okay that happened on Tuesday
1:50:36night
1:50:37just this past Tuesday obviously okay do
1:50:41you remember what time that was
1:50:43that's pretty late it was midnight ish
1:50:47I'd say between midnight
1:50:59what made you decide to to measure that
1:51:01distance the point seven kilometers
1:51:06that's just the numbers after another
1:51:10numbers
1:51:14and how did you leave it I just lost
1:51:21your tech behind the pretty large lock
1:51:26it's that duct tape still on her and
1:51:32what else is on her a couple of towels
1:51:35wrapped around her head
1:51:39the table and pants she was wearing
1:51:41jeans okay
1:51:46did you ever go back there
1:51:50right
1:51:57what other type of cleaning and things
1:51:59like that did you do anything else to
1:52:01kind of cover your tracks you can think
1:52:02of I vacuumed the house and I like the
1:52:08floor wash before
1:52:14what about your trap do you anything
1:52:15with that it's just washed today because
1:52:21it was a mess
1:52:23vacuum
1:52:38so marie-france
1:52:39[Music]
1:52:42when did when did it first occur to you
1:52:44to go to her house
1:52:54probably October
1:52:58so we're never not quite sure somewhere
1:53:01that timeframe
1:53:08and do you remember why that you fought
1:53:11to to do that
1:53:21well you know she had said she lived
1:53:25alone
1:53:28a long time I better mm-hmm
1:53:49oh why her versus you know the dozens of
1:53:52other women you probably come across on
1:53:54a daily basis
1:54:11yeah there when she wasn't home just to
1:54:14see where she lived
1:54:19when did you do that a couple of months
1:54:23before I had you know her address
1:54:30I'm a little old for the basement okay
1:54:35so when you go out there a couple of
1:54:38nights before to remember what night
1:54:39that was maybe their first time I don't
1:54:46but it was within two or three nights
1:54:49seven okay well run it for I know Jax
1:54:57should go into our house on that
1:54:58occasion or did you uh okay
1:55:00so what happened that night how'd you
1:55:01how'd you get into her house
1:55:03let's go on the side of the basement
1:55:05Simon okay we're just a back step a bit
1:55:11how did you get to her house that that
1:55:13first night you went there that drove
1:55:16what did you guys
1:55:20uh drove my truck find you remember
1:55:27where you parked it yeah I parked it at
1:55:35a division in the residential areas they
1:55:38reported on the other side six seven
1:55:42hundred meters away okay so not on her
1:55:45Street on different street number what
1:55:47street you parked up
1:55:48no but it's she might be the same Street
1:55:50but there's an interruption in the
1:55:52street where there's a construction zone
1:55:55there's a pathway the same street okay
1:56:01so you go to her house
1:56:04and when you went there that night did
1:56:07you know that she was away I'm not sure
1:56:13if I knew entirely but I is that based
1:56:20on her schedule or how would how would
1:56:24you know well my yeah because I fly with
1:56:27a squadron I have access to the schedule
1:56:30that's a slightly different schedules
1:56:32yes but that's probably you don't know
1:56:36for sure
1:56:38I think that's probably okay so you go
1:56:44to our house and what do you do that
1:56:47ain't the first name around and
1:56:57I'm sure that she was living there on
1:57:05and I'm sorry did you say the camera if
1:57:07you said how did you get in same same
1:57:10way side basement right side basement
1:57:14window to our what kind of window it is
1:57:16like what made it well I just noticed
1:57:20that I see that it was not locked it
1:57:22open slightly so you go in and you're in
1:57:33her house figuring out she lives alone
1:57:35and do you do anything that night yeah
1:57:42it's playing with her other work
1:57:52you mean playing with her
1:57:58where are you
1:58:00okay doing anything else
1:58:09not touch her stuff
1:58:17I mean you didn't touch her stuff I mean
1:58:18you touched her hardware but yeah
1:58:21nothing else did you take any underwear
1:58:24with you that night yeah a few pieces
1:58:29where did you find the end of room when
1:58:31you want
1:58:38the clean was used for
1:58:46anything else should you remember doing
1:58:47that evening yeah all right
1:58:55so after that first visit did you return
1:59:00again before meeting up with her no so
1:59:07which day did you go to her house when
1:59:10she was there well the night before I
1:59:17went out a while so I think that was
1:59:18Monday night
1:59:23right
1:59:25so let's walk through that but what time
1:59:27do you think you got there but eleven
1:59:32herself probably ten three of them
1:59:41so she was on the phone in her room
1:59:46sure that from the backyard
1:59:51I got in through the side window the
1:59:55same basement window
1:59:58how could you hear from the backyard
2:00:00what was your her on the phone
2:00:04front beside I said the house here
2:00:08through the walls and she was on the
2:00:09phone but any idea who she was talking
2:00:13to or what she was talking about okay so
2:00:17you go in through the basement window
2:00:20what are you wearing this was happening
2:00:31sweatshirt
2:00:35Dockers I guess
2:00:38she pisses on my head
2:00:43where are those two pieces now pieces
2:00:46that you were on the head
2:00:51they're probably in my bag in my luggage
2:00:54bagging it is better
2:00:59what's your luggage back look like
2:01:03blue
2:01:04leveled a coke thing
2:01:07it's right beside the bed
2:01:09they're the only blue duffle bag in your
2:01:11bedroom and these pieces what do they
2:01:15look like again it's a blue headband
2:01:25black skullcap any insignias or anything
2:01:33on them yeah but I don't know they're
2:01:35the blue headband has something that's a
2:01:40stitched their name of some sort
2:01:43stitched on it and the skullcap has some
2:01:48sort of emblem on the way Devlin on the
2:01:49black are they like sports emblems or
2:01:53company emblems or it's the
2:01:56manufacturers okay anything else in that
2:02:02blue duffle bag is it full of things I
2:02:10was just just okay
2:02:17you go in remember what you had on your
2:02:19feet in the house there
2:02:25let me went to Marie Francis house I'd
2:02:29probably riding shoes it wasn't snow on
2:02:32the ground so you go in and you're in
2:02:38the basement and whereabouts in the
2:02:41basement by the furnace okay
2:02:49and what are you doing like what's your
2:02:51what's your sort of plan at that point
2:02:53it was really pretty little bit okay and
2:02:58how long did that take
2:03:00well she didn't all right
2:03:08and what happens next as I described a
2:03:13well subdued her give me the flashlight
2:03:21but essentially
2:03:26wrestled her to the ground and tied her
2:03:28up
2:03:34what did you use the tiger up several
2:03:37green room it's intuitive
2:03:42is it just green or like how long is
2:03:45this piece of rope it's probably yeah 20
2:03:50feet
2:03:53it's a boat boat bro that's good some
2:03:55red specks another it's for lots of
2:04:01ropes and tweeter is this probably the
2:04:02only rope no this there - two months two
2:04:13lengths of the same green rope and were
2:04:15they both used well I see your tire tire
2:04:30up how did you tie her off when you
2:04:32happiest oh dude right okay
2:04:35and what is she wearing at that point
2:04:37she wasn't wearing anything to start
2:04:39with so when she came down to the
2:04:42basement she had no clothes on
2:04:44it's sort of a shawl over her shoulder
2:04:47okay
2:04:50son did she say anything what'd she say
2:04:55she did she call that you bastard okay
2:05:05and then what happened then I subdued
2:05:10her as I ran by hitting her with that
2:05:12red flashlight okay
2:05:16although they were or glancing glancing
2:05:20blows cut her skin but we're doing much
2:05:24else
2:05:25she fell over and then ice and she
2:05:29tripped
2:05:31how did you tie her at that point like I
2:05:35know you use the rope but what did you
2:05:36tie her up like just put her right pull
2:05:40their hands behind your back I can just
2:05:44okay then then what happened after that
2:05:49took her upstairs
2:05:56did she go upstairs under her own power
2:05:58did you carry her no she passed over to
2:06:02them on the stairs and I carried her why
2:06:11do you think she passed out
2:06:18history our head
2:06:22so you carry it up to where SuperBetter
2:06:25put her on the bed
2:06:29and then what happened
2:06:42as I described it okay on the bed I
2:06:46raped her over a period of time
2:06:53and again just to be specific with what
2:06:55sex acts to place your penis in her
2:07:02vagina yeah
2:07:03any condom use did you ejaculate did you
2:07:10exactly at any point with her
2:07:18but just before I forget you I think I
2:07:21asked you don't mean to bounce around on
2:07:24your respite with Jessica I asked you
2:07:27about ejaculation you said he didn't at
2:07:29that point when did you ejaculate with
2:07:30Jessica the second time or third time it
2:07:43was at her residence or yours hers any
2:07:48other times that you ejaculated with her
2:07:56when you ejaculate it was Jessica did
2:07:58you use anything to clean up for what
2:08:06happened to the ejaculate let's you
2:08:10swallow it
2:08:14so getting back to marie-france just
2:08:17straight vagina sex no condom no
2:08:20ejaculation is that right yeah okay how
2:08:26long does that go for look how long were
2:08:30you engaged in that activity well I
2:08:40don't have two hours eNOS okay
2:08:45now what happens next
2:08:50well as I described I suffocated her
2:08:53using duct tape
2:09:00why did you decide to do that
2:09:10well again because of pictures as I
2:09:15distract here with those gonna be a
2:09:19pretty straight line back to tweed
2:09:25but why why why did you decide to use
2:09:27that method versus something else
2:09:42by
2:09:45thought of it strangling her earlier
2:09:54that sounded here
2:09:56what is
2:09:58my
2:10:05it was a short shorten of the tempt
2:10:07because she struggles with this
2:10:15decided that I needed to suffocate er
2:10:21so the short left to Tampa strangler and
2:10:25what's on the video the suffocation or
2:10:27the straining well just need putting my
2:10:30hand on her throat
2:10:37and then they're responding surprise
2:10:43very aggressively
2:10:47any videos of the suffocation part or
2:10:51pictures of that now you know you
2:10:57mentioned it you brought the rope with
2:10:58you or did the duct tape come from and
2:11:03what did you do with after it I think it
2:11:11didn't state and tweet what color duct
2:11:15tape are we talking about I know it
2:11:17comes in a variety of colors but three
2:11:18great so before the suffocation
2:11:27obviously how long do you think you were
2:11:30with her from the point well how long do
2:11:34you think you were in that house for the
2:11:35point you went in that window to the
2:11:37point you left probably four hours okay
2:11:46so correct me if I'm wrong did you say
2:11:50you were that got there at 11:00
2:11:51or around 11:00 I think that's right
2:11:55okay so you left around 3:00 in the
2:12:00morning
2:12:04well I was in the basement for quite a
2:12:06while before she came down and she
2:12:10wasn't going a bit so it's probably in
2:12:12the basement for 30 40 minutes so by the
2:12:19time she saw me it was probably closer
2:12:23to midnight all right
2:12:29but they didn't have a watch on so I'm
2:12:31not sure
2:12:35any gloves
2:12:45Southie
2:12:47did you wear gloves with Jessica only to
2:12:51get in the house it's a very cold night
2:12:57and what about the two women in in tweet
2:13:00that was so while you're with Murray
2:13:06Fonz what kind of conversations are
2:13:09taking place anything in if she said to
2:13:12you stick out in your mind okay why did
2:13:19you tape them off as soon as I got her
2:13:23up to the bedroom why did you decide to
2:13:26do that because she was
2:13:34quite aggressive
2:13:38and what was stuff that years would have
2:13:42screamed give the chance
2:13:48what way does she did initially did she
2:13:50in the basement so I won't wait was she
2:13:54aggressive well just when she discovered
2:13:59me she was very vocal scream quite a bit
2:14:05until I subdued her so I expected she
2:14:08would scream again given the chance do
2:14:15you remember how you left her residence
2:14:20back door
2:14:27to take anything with you that night so
2:14:31for anything else
2:14:37all right
2:14:40did you do anything else to try and
2:14:43cover your tracks with me Franz
2:14:56well he turned off my blackberry before
2:14:58I left Rennes
2:15:07do you remember trying to destroy any
2:15:09kind of evidence here that they are
2:15:11anything you thought may have produced
2:15:14evidence or anything
2:15:15I took her sheets off the bed and I ran
2:15:17them through the lottery
2:15:22like the laundry where I in her house
2:15:26did you run now complete you through did
2:15:28you wait for it to finish her just a
2:15:31bunch of bleach so the night you went to
2:15:38her house
2:15:38and gone through her 11 you came from
2:15:41where I think you said you left Trenton
2:15:45you turned off your blackberry did you
2:15:51talking about the base are you talking
2:15:52about where did you leave to go to her
2:15:55house well no I just turned off my
2:15:57blackberry before I left the Trenton
2:15:58area I would have left from the base
2:16:03after work
2:16:05all right when did you turn when did you
2:16:08what time do you think you turn the
2:16:10BlackBerry off well it's only a half
2:16:16hour drive to Brighton so
2:16:22probably in the 9930 range remember what
2:16:28what time you would have turned it back
2:16:30on but I was back on the fur one heading
2:16:34daughter well that was fun what time was
2:16:36that it was oh six westernize thirty
2:16:41nuts but
2:16:43so you leave her house three ish no I
2:16:46think it was later than that so the four
2:16:48hours obviously was I think as I think I
2:16:55tend about eleven was in the basement
2:16:58for quite a while probably left her
2:17:01house closer to four or thirties over
2:17:04there okay and where you go
2:17:11another one straight out all did you go
2:17:17by your house and tweet or anything or
2:17:18just go straight what route you took
2:17:24yeah for one but from her place I got my
2:17:32straight more fun whatever the road is
2:17:34that goes straight through bright enough
2:17:35for the for one at the 401 and headed
2:17:37east and so you're going to what's the
2:17:45meeting you're having that day in Ottawa
2:17:47or Miami
2:17:49the c-17 acquisition project okay and he
2:17:52ran that meeting the project manager
2:17:55miss sue Hale is that the only meeting
2:18:02around that time period you would've
2:18:03went to on that issue was Suhail that
2:18:06wasn't like a weekly meeting or anything
2:18:08like that I know this is sort of a
2:18:10quarterly all right so the night you
2:18:17went the night this happened where did
2:18:21you park that name as I said across the
2:18:26gravel roadway probably that's probably
2:18:29the same Road okay similar location to
2:18:32the first name yeah all right same same
2:18:38vehicle
2:18:41yeah
2:18:45alright ok let's talk about the scene as
2:18:54we're going backwards in time her why we
2:18:55talk about the second incident in tweet
2:19:01with Laurie Massaquoi and it's a 76 cozy
2:19:07Cove how did you decide on her I knew
2:19:19she lived alone how did you know that
2:19:32didn't know urban I knew she was pretty
2:19:36long she had boyfriend
2:19:39doesn't seem to be
2:19:48you know won't did nothing doing she was
2:19:53alone so she she had a boyfriend but he
2:19:56wasn't into frequent ok well she told me
2:20:00they were fighting so that's why yeah
2:20:03okay so
2:20:11did you look in her house before the
2:20:14night that this this incident happened
2:20:16or when did you get it
2:20:18I've been in within a week
2:20:21Oh a couple nights earlier what do that
2:20:27name
2:20:29I looked around to see if their
2:20:37permanent signs of her boyfriend took
2:20:45one or two pieces of every word
2:20:52so
2:20:55okay
2:20:58so tonight you go there when the
2:21:01incident happens what time that was that
2:21:06was pretty late I probably got into the
2:21:09house around midnight she was asleep on
2:21:11the couch
2:21:14she was in there how did you get in
2:21:18sorry wind over the back of the house
2:21:24summer that's just something you had to
2:21:28slide or how did you get that Rufus
2:21:31screen and slide it up okay so I got
2:21:39into the house and yeah she was asleep
2:21:43in front the teeth
2:21:49whirring anything on your face that
2:21:51night yep same things okay I been in the
2:21:56cap what kind of clothes did you have
2:22:02one just dirt sweat sugar
2:22:11so she's asleep on the couch you're in
2:22:13there and then what happens we have been
2:22:19through this thing I know I struck her
2:22:21with the flashlight I'm gonna knock her
2:22:23head it didn't I'll be struggled i
2:22:26subdued her took some pictures left
2:22:30somebody in the hospital two and a half
2:22:34hours
2:22:39it's a pretty short description for two
2:22:40and a half hours and we talked yeah
2:22:54to her I was gonna hurt her
2:23:01okay I told her that there were other
2:23:06guys in the house robbing her my job was
2:23:11just to control her
2:23:22what did she say to that
2:23:30or folk she was going to be seriously
2:23:33hurt
2:23:36did she say that or did you just assume
2:23:38that no no she said that she was
2:23:46she was worried she was going to be
2:23:47killed with it I'm not gonna kill me
2:23:52what did you do with signature pitches
2:23:56over closed unclothed I both closed and
2:24:02Ashley and then unclothed
2:24:09are you any of those pictures just tell
2:24:14her
2:24:16kind of camera are you using by the way
2:24:22digital son you just have the one camera
2:24:26yeah and the video also they're two
2:24:32separate some cameras take pictures away
2:24:36and where is the camera and the video
2:24:39camera then tweet that's it the only
2:24:48camera and video camera in that house
2:24:50yeah all right
2:24:57did you take pictures ever and how do
2:25:00you end up leaving I just told her
2:25:10counterweight for number minutes before
2:25:15of course you call the police
2:25:20and you to leave immediately or did you
2:25:22stay there for a while see what she was
2:25:24gonna do or and where do you go home
2:25:30straight home
2:25:32did you did you wait to see if the
2:25:36police showed up or anything or no
2:25:40that's so what you when you got home for
2:25:44under feet let's sleep
2:25:50would you the next day
2:25:54I want it to work normal time a couple
2:25:58hours later
2:26:03okay
2:26:08do you remember how her clothing was
2:26:11removed well because their hands were
2:26:19tied behind her back I think I cut off
2:26:20her top and then pulled off her bottom
2:26:24what did you use to cut her top
2:26:32I can't remember it was a knife for like
2:26:36a folding exacto knife or a Leatherman
2:26:38her - are these items that are in your
2:26:43house and tweet was there ever any other
2:26:48time you use a knife to cut off clothing
2:26:51or anything else I cut off Jessica's top
2:26:57of the knife her hands were tied behind
2:27:00her back that's all
2:27:04where's that knife which named Jesus I
2:27:07was the letter that was letter is it the
2:27:11only Leatherman in and tweet so on the
2:27:1716th September when you went in that
2:27:22night was that the first time you better
2:27:23her house my her just cuz I'd seen her
2:27:31she was cute
2:27:34it's
2:27:36okay
2:27:38so there's no you didn't go into her
2:27:42house before that that night no all
2:27:46right so you go in and how did you get
2:27:50into her house side window he was not
2:27:59locked cut the screen and slit the
2:28:02window cruel thing okay
2:28:07and what you wearing switcher dark pants
2:28:13the same hat and where do you find but
2:28:24sleep and what do you do
2:28:30stood over her for a while and I hit her
2:28:34on the left side of her head my hand
2:28:40just woke her up he struggled
2:28:47yeah just play on
2:28:55[Music]
2:28:57very much like I described a little bit
2:28:59ago took off her pulled her top down and
2:29:06took off her pants some pictures
2:29:11remember her saying anything to you yes
2:29:15what did she say they done baby just
2:29:27next door yeah the room eight months or
2:29:31so
2:29:34so I'm just concerned about the baby
2:29:37concern for herself I assured her I was
2:29:40not gonna hurt her
2:29:56any underwear taken from or poori yep
2:30:01and where would they be located
2:30:12and why are they in tweed as opposed to
2:30:16Murray Franz and Jessica's underwear
2:30:29how much of their underwear you took
2:30:40not very much from Laurie did they know
2:30:44that you took leave you their underwear
2:30:47you didn't discuss it with everything so
2:30:55wearing tweed with their underwear be
2:31:13in the laundry room area okay
2:31:20just between the house in the garage
2:31:22right
2:31:31we're in that long-term area would they
2:31:33be kept there's a covered up top duffel
2:31:39bag well it's difficult okay are they
2:31:45all on the same duffel thing is there
2:31:48anything else in that duffel bag just
2:31:53anywhere
2:32:04when these when these pictures are
2:32:08looked at you talked about being in
2:32:10Murray Fonz's underwear on the first
2:32:13night you went in did you take
2:32:14photographs of that yeah what about
2:32:16anybody else's underwear yeah
2:32:21of you in their underwear and where were
2:32:25those photos taken
2:32:35well sometimes in
2:32:43in Madoff analysis case in her house the
2:32:49others in my house in tweet so is this a
2:32:56matter you would take the underwear go
2:32:58back and and then at some point put the
2:33:01inter on and take pictures
2:33:02what about Jessica's underwear she's
2:33:15so you have pictures of you in her all
2:33:19right
2:33:24okay
2:33:27well I guess I just have a couple of
2:33:31questions for you I mean I'm sure
2:33:32there's gonna be more questions but I
2:33:34guess what's on my mind right now are us
2:33:36is what made you decide to to tell me
2:33:39this today
2:33:48mostly to make my my wife's life easier
2:33:57that's what you told me tonight the
2:33:59truth
2:34:08how do you feel about what you got
2:34:26disappointed
2:34:31let me ask you this if
2:34:35this didn't come to the plane inside
2:34:37right now if whatever reason you didn't
2:34:40up iron on our radar so to speak do you
2:34:44think it would have happened it yet
2:34:52I was hoping not
2:34:58okay not too much here that's just a few
2:35:04details that wanted to cover off
2:35:08specifically Dan with Marie Franz
2:35:13I'm the basement of her house there's a
2:35:16hole in the drywall you recall how that
2:35:21happened
2:35:22where votes I don't know specifically
2:35:26but this downstairs do you remember
2:35:32doing anything with her in the basement
2:35:34where you may have used some clothing or
2:35:36something to to secure her yeah I tied
2:35:41her up against the poles on the basement
2:35:44initially I went outside and put the
2:35:50screen back on and secured the window
2:35:53okay while she was tied to the pole yeah
2:35:57and what was your thinking behind doing
2:35:58that at that point just how it okay
2:36:07now by the time she's tied to that pole
2:36:09is that in the very initial few minutes
2:36:11kind of thing of the confrontation or
2:36:13that was shortly after they'd subdued
2:36:16her entire up yes okay does she have the
2:36:18duct tape on her mouth yet I think
2:36:25probably what kind of pictures will show
2:36:29all right now in the upstairs bathroom
2:36:32by her bedroom there's a looks like
2:36:36something's occurred in there remember
2:36:38that yeah what happened there she had
2:36:42passed out on the bed I had gone to look
2:36:45at the front window see if anybody was
2:36:48coming and she got up and closed the
2:36:54bedroom door and reached into the
2:36:55bathroom I'm trying to get somebody's
2:36:58attention but her mouth was taped and
2:37:02her hands were tied
2:37:05what did you do as a result of that well
2:37:07I just subdued her again I've got better
2:37:13back in the bitter you know I think just
2:37:17regain control her okay if I remember
2:37:21correctly there's a bit of blood in
2:37:23there do you know where that blood would
2:37:24have how that that would have occurred
2:37:26Lola blood was from the initial hits as
2:37:30I was trying to subdue her look at her
2:37:32skin breaking with a blows to her head
2:37:37do you recall blood being in the
2:37:39bathroom okay
2:37:47there's a pair of underwear in some
2:37:49socks on the floor of that bathroom that
2:37:52belong to her do you remember how they
2:37:54you got there remember CSU they were
2:37:59called do either her breasts it's pretty
2:38:02clear that there was some something
2:38:04happened to her breasts remember what
2:38:07that might have been
2:38:20well Russell when I suffocated her she
2:38:23was on her her front so what do you mean
2:38:33well she was lying on the floor in the
2:38:35bedroom as I suffocated her and
2:38:37obviously struggled Nathan in there that
2:38:40something happened but I didn't do
2:38:42anything specifically to her breasts
2:38:43okay so when you suffocate her that's
2:38:46when you have the duct tape over her
2:38:47mouth and nose and that's on the floor
2:38:49yeah and then what happens after that
2:38:55well she died took the duct tape off her
2:39:01head put her on the bed
2:39:08okay what was your thinking behind doing
2:39:10that
2:39:23as you might expect your arrests
2:39:26certainly even now one of the Ottawa
2:39:29investigators mentioned to me that
2:39:31there's a number of incidents that that
2:39:34have gone unsolved over the years yeah I
2:39:43can't get somebody to take you to
2:39:44Washington okay

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