Coleen Rowley Testifies Before The Senate - 9/11 Was 100% Known of in Advanced, Preventable — Transcript
Full transcript
- 0:02take her I'm just gonna need a little
- 0:06bit of cooperation so I can see I do
- 0:18want to welcome special agent calling
- 0:21them Rolly of the FBI
- 0:23she's been an FBI agent for 21 years
- 0:27she's currently the chief division
- 0:29counsel for the Minneapolis field office
- 0:31of the FBI she came to the attention of
- 0:36this committee when she wrote a letter
- 0:37to director Muller that was given to
- 0:40members of Congress her letter refers to
- 0:43a number of issues this committee has
- 0:45heard from other FBI agents in the past
- 0:48and started a hatch and I felt that the
- 0:54nature of the hearing we're having today
- 0:55it would be good as she is she testified
- 1:09mr. chairman could I say something oh of
- 1:14course
- 1:15yeah well I I thank you mr. chairman
- 1:17because Special Agent Raleigh is a
- 1:21native in my home state of Iowa and
- 1:23she's also a native of my wife's
- 1:25hometown of New Hampton Iowa but more
- 1:28importantly agent Raleigh is a patriotic
- 1:31American who had the courage to put
- 1:34truth first and raise critical but
- 1:37important questions about how the FBI
- 1:39handled a terrorist case before the
- 1:42attacks and about the FBI's cultural
- 1:45problems agent Raleigh your testimony
- 1:48today is a great service to this
- 1:51committee the entire Congress the FBI
- 1:53and the American people and I thank you
- 1:55for coming we should be honored to hear
- 1:58your testimony today people like you who
- 2:01come forth to as as I put it to commit
- 2:06the truth of a very terrible sin among
- 2:09some federal employees
- 2:11but you you come forth with important
- 2:13information about the FBI there's been
- 2:19heroes like Fred Whitehurst before you
- 2:22who exposed the FBI crime lab scandal we
- 2:26had four agents last summer who revealed
- 2:28disparities in discipline and a pattern
- 2:30of retaliation against those who
- 2:32investigated misconduct inside the FBI
- 2:35agent Raleigh has thrown the spotlight
- 2:38on specific and general problems
- 2:40happening at the FBI before the
- 2:42terrorist attacks and she has important
- 2:45insights with her perspective from the
- 2:47field about what the FBI can do to
- 2:50change the FBI must improve so it can
- 2:53prevent future terrorist attacks and her
- 2:56testimony I believe is very important to
- 2:58help this happen miss Raleigh I believe
- 3:00is a dedicated public servant who tells
- 3:03it like it is she wanted to be an FBI
- 3:05agent since she was five years old and
- 3:08she had a distinguished has had a
- 3:11distinguished 20-year career at the FBI
- 3:14she worked in variety of of offices
- 3:18including New York where she
- 3:19investigated mafia after learning
- 3:22Italian and worked with people like Rudy
- 3:24Giuliani Louis Freeh and Michael
- 3:27Chertoff she worked in the minneapolis
- 3:30division now since 1990 and a number of
- 3:32areas including as the ethics offer
- 3:35officer agent raleigh i thank you again
- 3:37for agreeing to testify today so that we
- 3:41can hear your constructive criticism of
- 3:43the FBI to help it reform and to help it
- 3:45improve the senior senator from your
- 3:52state and under Grassley who is from
- 3:57your state of birth have said very good
- 4:01things about you and they both have gone
- 4:03out of their way to talk to members of
- 4:05the committee with all that now we'd
- 4:08like to hear from you and I should
- 4:10mention there's a roll call vote has
- 4:13started why don't you begin your
- 4:16statement if we have to stop at some
- 4:19point I will it won't be because of
- 4:20something your citizens only because we
- 4:22have to vote in person
- 4:23go ahead well the first thing I want to
- 4:26do is thank you for the opportunity to
- 4:29appear today I never really anticipated
- 4:32this kind of impact when I wrote this
- 4:35letter to director Miller to over two
- 4:38weeks ago I don't know if you know I
- 4:41think they've been saying I anguished
- 4:42over this a week
- 4:43it wasn't even quite a week that I it
- 4:46was more like a three-day period and it
- 4:48was a fairly sleepless three-day period
- 4:50when I began to initially just jot down
- 4:53my thoughts because they knew I had to
- 4:55appear before the staffers of the Joint
- 4:57Intelligence Committee and I didn't want
- 4:59to forget anything and also you'll
- 5:01probably find out I'm a little better on
- 5:03paper than I am verbally so I was kind
- 5:05of afraid of that that was one of the
- 5:08reasons I started to write it down I
- 5:09also had another big impetus that that
- 5:13was kind of behind this all and one of
- 5:15the things was I saw the new direction
- 5:19of the FBI perhaps it was kind of hard
- 5:21to discern when it was first announced
- 5:23but I thought I saw some impetus towards
- 5:26a little more additional bureaucracy and
- 5:31micromanaging from headquarters and I
- 5:33wanted to point out to director Muller
- 5:36that that seemed to fly in the face of
- 5:38what we should have learned from
- 5:40September 11th and the two things were
- 5:43the impetus for the letter I of course
- 5:48you know I have many years of experience
- 5:49in the FBI I really do care really about
- 5:53the FBI I've invested you know almost
- 5:55half my life in it and I do care also
- 5:58about our protection now I've got four
- 6:00children all my lot of my friends have
- 6:03children and I really think we ought to
- 6:06be doing our best to try to prevent any
- 6:08future acts of terrorism I I did in the
- 6:15last couple of weeks receive hundreds I
- 6:18was counting him for a while but I lost
- 6:20track but I received hundreds of emails
- 6:22and telephone calls from agents mostly
- 6:25agents some supervisors some prosecutors
- 6:28some retired FBI leaders and I'm not
- 6:32going to presume to speak for all of
- 6:34those people but when I looked at
- 6:36and I've read most of them there's a few
- 6:38I probably haven't gotten a chance to
- 6:39look at that have come in since I left
- 6:41but of the ones I I looked at I did see
- 6:44a real common theme emerging it seems
- 6:47like they're kind of struck a chord with
- 6:49a lot of people about this idea about
- 6:50the borough per see a lot of other
- 6:53agents told me similar stories and about
- 6:56cases that had you know maybe I'm
- 6:59justifiably not gotten anywhere and I
- 7:02have a you know I have a whole stack of
- 7:03those I think there is really the main
- 7:08thing being a real strong consensus that
- 7:10we need to streamline the FBI's
- 7:12bureaucracy in order to more effectively
- 7:15combat terrorism we need that agility
- 7:18that director Muller was speaking of
- 7:20this morning that agility and ability to
- 7:22quickly react and I really see that as
- 7:25if you get too top-heavy with too many
- 7:28layers he also mentioned that problem
- 7:31that you are going to be stymied I was
- 7:34encouraged by director Muller's
- 7:36testimony this morning because I think
- 7:38many of his ideas do seem to go in the
- 7:41right direction and actually are quite
- 7:43consistent with the various items I had
- 7:46in my letter to him he really has an
- 7:50extremely difficult job and that's an
- 7:52understatement
- 7:53when I talk about trying to trim the
- 7:56bureaucracy a little bit I don't know
- 7:58how you can underestimate that been
- 8:00tried before and failed and he just has
- 8:03a tremendously difficult job which I can
- 8:05appreciate I want everyone to know that
- 8:08no one today previewed in the FBI I of
- 8:11course they gave me approval to be here
- 8:13but no one was no one read the statement
- 8:16I did I did this one court quite quickly
- 8:19because I didn't know I was coming until
- 8:20recently and in this statement which I'm
- 8:23not going to read because you can read
- 8:25it when you want to I have some ideas in
- 8:28here some of these ideas again come from
- 8:31other agents some of whom are more
- 8:33experienced in intelligence than I am
- 8:35and then some of them are my own ideas I
- 8:38am the legal counsel so some of the
- 8:40legal issues are things that I've seen
- 8:42as an issue that have arisen in the past
- 8:44few years and you can read that at your
- 8:47leisure and if someone wants to ask me a
- 8:49specific
- 8:50question about any of those that's fine
- 8:54they're part of I guess what I can maybe
- 8:58go on beyond what director Muller I
- 9:00guess what I'm gonna try to do is the
- 9:03FBI made mistakes prior to September
- 9:0611th I made a little mistake if you look
- 9:09at my letter I made a mistake on the
- 9:11first page I got the date wrong it was
- 9:13August 16th I mean it I proof read it
- 9:16once and I missed it we all make
- 9:18mistakes and I think that there are
- 9:21other levels of our criminal justice
- 9:23system there are other federal agencies
- 9:25I'm not going to talk about but they're
- 9:26also the the prosecutors when you've
- 9:29tried to go criminal there's entities in
- 9:32the Department of Justice and so does
- 9:33some extent I've kind of brought and
- 9:35some of what I have written in my
- 9:37statement to include those other
- 9:39criminal justice entities that you know
- 9:42the FBI is it was real important but we
- 9:44certainly there's certainly other
- 9:46entities that are very important here to
- 9:49I was also encouraged I didn't I don't
- 9:54know if anyone asked a question about it
- 9:56today but when I read director Muller
- 9:58statement he points to integrity I think
- 10:01it's the last page also and he does
- 10:04point to that as an issue and I'm very
- 10:07encouraged by that because of course if
- 10:11you look at the end of my statement I
- 10:12think integrity is extremely important
- 10:15some of the people this morning did ask
- 10:18questions about how are we going to
- 10:20effectively combat terrorism we're going
- 10:23to be in a proactive environment which
- 10:26definitely has the potential of maybe
- 10:29interfering with people's civil
- 10:31liberties and how are we going to still
- 10:34protect those civil liberties and I
- 10:36honestly think integrity really plays
- 10:39into this whole item a lot of of when
- 10:43you're asking for some new law or some
- 10:45new authority it's perhaps not only what
- 10:48the law allows you to do but it's how
- 10:51it's going to be done and then it really
- 10:54boils down to an issue of trust with the
- 10:56agency or the entity that you're giving
- 10:58this particular power to and there are
- 11:01this there there are potentials for
- 11:03abuse if you
- 11:04over that line and I think as an agency
- 11:07we have to be so so completely truthful
- 11:11and honest that people are able to trust
- 11:15the FBI that we will not cross those
- 11:17lines and commit or commit any kind of
- 11:21civil rights violation or collect too
- 11:24much information etc that basically is
- 11:30all I want to say and then if anyone has
- 11:32a question from my statement what I'm
- 11:37going to do now we have about four
- 11:39minutes left in this boat I'm going to
- 11:41suggest everybody going vote will stand
- 11:43in recess for a minute or the amount of
- 11:46time it takes come back and that way
- 11:47we'll be uninterrupted thank you
- 12:13[Music]
- 12:33a fair break again
- 12:42must be hot weather nobody once go
- 12:44outside agent Rawley you may be
- 12:50interested in knowing and I haven't even
- 12:52had a chance to share this with Senator
- 12:57Grassley a copy of this is gone just her
- 12:59to hatch Dan Bryan to the private of
- 13:06Justice has sent me a letter following a
- 13:12request I made assuring both me and
- 13:16Senator hatch there will not be any
- 13:18retaliation against you a name form for
- 13:22the letter you sent the FBI director of
- 13:27course that would also extend to the
- 13:31testimony here I will put this letter to
- 13:33sort of had to myself in the in the
- 13:36record and Senator Grassley and I have
- 13:43both notified the Attorney General and
- 13:45the director that we would be following
- 13:47this matter carefully anyway let me ask
- 13:51this question of you
- 14:01I asked this question basically to
- 14:04director Muller this boys I want to ask
- 14:06you as well to your knowledge the agents
- 14:11in Minneapolis or headquarters for that
- 14:14matter ever try to do a routine search
- 14:18for reports on aviation schools or pilot
- 14:22training on the automated case system
- 14:24I'm not talking about putting in
- 14:26somebody's name but for search words
- 14:29like aviation schools are or pilot
- 14:34training anybody did that well I know a
- 14:42little bit about our our ACS system and
- 14:47the records we have and as well as the
- 14:49search methods we have because I also do
- 14:51our Freedom of Information requests and
- 14:54of course there are strict rules in
- 14:56place about how we search and when we
- 14:58people write to us you know if we find
- 15:00their name our main system of Records
- 15:03our central record system is indexed
- 15:06according to the name of the subject
- 15:08usually so for instance in a case where
- 15:11a particular suspect was named the
- 15:14normal method of searching would be to
- 15:16search that name only we also have we do
- 15:21have the ability to search some text for
- 15:24a word but unlike for instance if you
- 15:27are doing LexisNexis research you can
- 15:29put in the Koala and or and there's all
- 15:32different ways that you can search our
- 15:34FBI search is probably the most
- 15:37fundamental rudimentary thing you can
- 15:40just put in a word so for instance if
- 15:43you put in airline to do a text
- 15:44retrieval you would get up such a volume
- 15:47of Records that it would be impossible
- 15:49to review it's almost impossible to do
- 15:52just a one word text now you can put in
- 15:55aviation schools well what you can't do
- 15:58for instance in LexisNexis when you're
- 16:00searching for things you can put those
- 16:01qualifiers in that narrow it down and we
- 16:04can't we have no way of doing that we
- 16:06can put a word in you could put an
- 16:08aviation I think we could you can put in
- 16:10aviation schools so you might
- 16:14you would just beginning foul you know
- 16:15records that you couldn't possibly
- 16:16review now what the normal method is we
- 16:19do search those names and that that's
- 16:22because the subjects names are indexed
- 16:24so for freedom of information that's
- 16:26what I do and you do I think he
- 16:28mentioned that you have to have the
- 16:29correct spelling that's that's right I
- 16:31mean if you're one letter off you may
- 16:32not turn up a record this doesn't do you
- 16:34much good if you're looking for somebody
- 16:37for example use nitroglycerin and types
- 16:39of bombings and is going around with an
- 16:41alias which changes bombing to bombing
- 16:45what about the director said in his
- 16:49testimony that your your office couldn't
- 16:54have brought up the Phoenix electronic
- 16:57communication on the computers and use
- 16:59it in connection with the Misawa case
- 17:02but the headquarters could have done
- 17:05that is that your understanding I don't
- 17:08know specifically about that ec but I do
- 17:11know that prior to September 11th a
- 17:13number of classified documents and I
- 17:16probably almost all classified documents
- 17:19were blocked so that only certain people
- 17:21on a need-to-know basis would would be
- 17:25able to if you went into the computer
- 17:27for instance and you didn't have that
- 17:28access you aren't going to have you're
- 17:30not gonna be able to see those things it
- 17:32was also in public corruption cases
- 17:33other types of cases that we had this
- 17:35blocking and it served a good purpose in
- 17:38a way because you know it really keeps
- 17:40the people maybe from abusing it but if
- 17:44you have citizens pushing a cleared
- 17:46person the head of your office has a
- 17:48Phoenix office others they want to do a
- 17:51computer search on the FBI is ACS
- 17:54computer network it's still difficult
- 17:56for them to do is that correct that's
- 18:00true I don't know exactly how this
- 18:02blocking you know what people in each
- 18:04office were unblocked in which weren't
- 18:06typically it was the people who had a
- 18:08need to work on that case only
- 18:10unfortunately some of the people may
- 18:14know something about it I'm not gonna be
- 18:16able to go much further
- 18:18you wrote that a supervisor at FBI
- 18:21headquarters made changes to the
- 18:24Minneapolis agents affidavit I'm talking
- 18:26about the fysop process
- 18:27now you wrote that they made changes to
- 18:30the agents affidavit they quote to use
- 18:34your words set it up for failure now the
- 18:37New York Times is also reported that
- 18:38another headquarters agent was basically
- 18:41banned from the courts from the FISA
- 18:43courts by the judge based on his past
- 18:47affidavits I know that the response some
- 18:52of these problems FBI's Institute's are
- 18:54so-called
- 18:55woods procedures and we put that in the
- 18:57records been Declassified put in the
- 18:59record this morning do you think that
- 19:03some of these problems where the place
- 19:05the court made headquarters more
- 19:06cautious and risk-averse and process in
- 19:10the price applications to the court I've
- 19:13never actually served at headquarters so
- 19:16I'm I guess I would only be speaking
- 19:19from hearsay and as well as maybe the
- 19:22opinions of some of the people that have
- 19:23called me and email me I think that when
- 19:28incidents occur where people in the FBI
- 19:31are disciplined or even even
- 19:35investigated possibly I think there are
- 19:37some consequences to that and it does in
- 19:39the future make them much more careful
- 19:41in the instances that I'm aware of in
- 19:43our office where that's happened we have
- 19:45typically in order not to repeat the
- 19:48problem we've instituted some kind of
- 19:50procedure that makes it more difficult
- 19:52so I think that in a way you know from
- 19:56what I know of it and again I've never
- 19:57served in headquarters that I would
- 19:59probably agree
- 20:00he also wrote that you and the agents in
- 20:03Minneapolis were frustrated with the
- 20:05headquarters agent that was assigned to
- 20:06the Masoli case and it actually hindered
- 20:10your investigation did you or any other
- 20:13supervisor agent and a Minneapolis
- 20:15called agent your concern would call his
- 20:19supervisor or others in Washington to
- 20:22complain about this before September
- 20:2411th I'm of course a little bit
- 20:29restricted in what I can talk today
- 20:30about the events of pre September 11th I
- 20:33had put that in my statement I failed to
- 20:36mention it earlier when I comment I'm
- 20:38gonna try to comment in a general way
- 20:40avoid the specifics prior to the events
- 20:43prior and not get into true real facts
- 20:45when I wrote the letter to director
- 20:48Muller I think some of the news accounts
- 20:50may be misunderstood I really was
- 20:54speaking more from a third party
- 20:57perspective and talking about what I saw
- 21:00our agents and other people in our
- 21:03office as opposed to me personally I
- 21:05there was a word in the first page I
- 21:07said I had a peripheral role and I think
- 21:10that's very accurate I did have a role
- 21:11but it was peripheral and when you asked
- 21:15if other people took these actions you
- 21:17know I I will say this this we have a
- 21:22culture in the FBI that there's a
- 21:24certain pecking order and it's pretty
- 21:27strong and it's very rare that someone
- 21:30picks up the phone a rank or two above
- 21:34themselves it would have to be only on
- 21:37the the strongest reasons typically you
- 21:40you have to pick up and call you know
- 21:42pick up the phone and talk to somebody
- 21:44who is at your rank so when these when
- 21:47you have an item that requires review by
- 21:50a higher level it's incumbent for you to
- 21:53go to a higher level person in your
- 21:55office and then for that person to make
- 21:57a call the Inspector General talked to
- 22:00you about this case I've had a call from
- 22:03the Inspector General but so far we
- 22:05haven't gotten into any role fax or
- 22:07anything when did he first contact you I
- 22:11I was contacted by an investigative
- 22:14counsel from the Office of Inspector
- 22:17General NASA and it was basically just
- 22:19to introduce introduce herself how long
- 22:22ago it was last week I think just a day
- 22:28or two after director Muller announced
- 22:31that it would be turned over to the
- 22:32Office of Inspector General thank you
- 22:34and you've raised an important issue
- 22:37also about the so called McDade law and
- 22:40your testimony you know that law was
- 22:43slipped into a massive omnibus
- 22:44appropriations bill some of us called
- 22:46ominous appropriations bills back in
- 22:491999 senator hatch
- 22:52and Senator Wyden have been trying to
- 22:53fix this problem 14:37 to fix the
- 22:59problem I want you know there's some of
- 23:01us on the committee that recognize it is
- 23:03a problem and Senator hatch and I are
- 23:06trying very much to fix the problem
- 23:09we'll keep trying eventually successful
- 23:12he came very close we thought we had it
- 23:14fixed in the USA PATRIOT Act but he's
- 23:25committed to get it fixed
- 23:29what a welcome you to the committee miss
- 23:31Rowley and the outside I want to thank
- 23:34you for appearing before the committee I
- 23:36also commend you for your letter of May
- 23:3821st to director Muller that letter
- 23:42raises a variety of significant issues
- 23:45that need to be considered during the
- 23:47reorg any reorganizing of the FBI and I
- 23:51can only imagine how difficult it was
- 23:52for you to write the letter and then
- 23:54forward it to director Muller and others
- 23:56so I want to ask you a few questions to
- 23:58clarify some statements in the letter in
- 24:01the c-curve use them on aspects of the
- 24:04specific reorganization plan I believe
- 24:08the FBI is most important law
- 24:11enforcement agency in the world and I
- 24:14know you do too
- 24:15and that's why you wrote the letter and
- 24:17you'd like to have it continue to be a
- 24:20great agency but in your letter you
- 24:22detail the difficult is you and the
- 24:24Minneapolis agents encountered in
- 24:26seeking a search warrant under the
- 24:29Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
- 24:30procedures we've been referring to that
- 24:33as FISA all day what the FISA and your
- 24:37legal training what modifications do you
- 24:40believe may be warranted to defy the
- 24:42statute in order to enable the FBI to
- 24:45obtain such approvals when investigating
- 24:48terrorists well I heard some of the
- 24:52discussion this morning about the the
- 24:55necessity to perhaps take out the
- 24:58working on behalf of a foreign power
- 25:01aspect in thinking about that and to be
- 25:04honest they haven't thought about
- 25:05a whole lot and in addition I have not
- 25:08had that much personal experience in
- 25:10working with the face the process our
- 25:12office is not as involved as other
- 25:15offices would be however I think in a
- 25:18way just knowing what I know about
- 25:20criminal and totality of circumstances
- 25:23etc I am not quite sure that it needs to
- 25:26be modified I think in a way perhaps
- 25:28what we have is because probable cause
- 25:31and proving or shown making these
- 25:34showings that are required are not like
- 25:37a DNA test they're not a litmus test you
- 25:39can't put it in and have it come out a
- 25:41hundred times the same way and what can
- 25:43happen is mindsets in over time
- 25:46different interpretations and you can
- 25:49have something becoming unduly difficult
- 25:52when when you actually look back maybe
- 25:54ten years ago this wasn't the case and
- 25:56there was basically a lesser standard I
- 25:59think when you look at totality of the
- 26:02circumstances and probable cause you are
- 26:05looking at more probable than not I'm
- 26:07not even quite sure if the physis I
- 26:10think face the statute requires it as
- 26:12well more probable than not and I think
- 26:14that if you look at a totality if
- 26:16someone is working on behalf of a
- 26:18foreign power these terrorists entities
- 26:22are not like countries they don't have
- 26:24embassies they don't send us their
- 26:27membership lists they don't send us
- 26:29their little organizational charts
- 26:33I worked mafia cases in the nineteen
- 26:35eighty and the Mafia didn't do that
- 26:36either we didn't they didn't send us
- 26:39their membership we had to figure it out
- 26:41and after a few years we certainly did
- 26:44have hierarchies of each organized crime
- 26:47family but that that was gained from
- 26:49surveillance it was gained from little
- 26:51snippets of information we would get
- 26:53from wiretaps that so-and-so is working
- 26:57for so-and-so and I think that we should
- 26:59be able to use that same type of thing
- 27:01for demonstrating that someone is
- 27:03working on behalf of a foreign power
- 27:05especially with a terrorist organization
- 27:07and I'm not sure that the language needs
- 27:09to be modified but I think we need to
- 27:11realize that it's this almost the same
- 27:13type of thing that we're up against we
- 27:15are not going to get concrete
- 27:17membership lists organizational charts
- 27:20that we can say okay or even the
- 27:22definition of the group sometimes these
- 27:25groups are very amorphous and by nature
- 27:28terrorism groups operate more
- 27:30effectively without having real defined
- 27:33hierarchies and who reports to who etc
- 27:36so that's kind of my take on it of
- 27:39course to a large degree we're talking
- 27:40about surveillance and unless you can
- 27:43show that they are operatives for a
- 27:45foreign power or that they you have
- 27:47probable cause to believe that they are
- 27:50part of Al Qaeda's in this particular
- 27:53case you can't get the right to just
- 27:56surveil and say that's what I think is
- 27:59and many people are concerned on the
- 28:02other side that that if we grant that
- 28:04broad right then it'll be misused sooner
- 28:08or later by somebody who would not be as
- 28:09perspicacious as you are or or director
- 28:12Muller is but I see it's a big problem
- 28:15because as you can see we basically
- 28:18couldn't get surveillance on I think
- 28:21basically all of those twenty I'm not
- 28:25gonna comment on all the facts but of
- 28:27the case I I my analysis of the case is
- 28:32that perhaps that you know it already
- 28:35exists you've read my letter and I think
- 28:38that it's an it's a it's an obstacle and
- 28:40I think maybe it's a possibility to
- 28:42consider whether maybe that that amount
- 28:44or that thresholds it should be somewhat
- 28:47eased especially in cases with
- 28:49terrorists where it's it's hard to but I
- 28:51think things like surveillance and
- 28:53knowing who met who and things like that
- 28:55should figure into it alright the agent
- 28:57rarely since your letter of May 21st the
- 29:00Attorney General was issued and new
- 29:02investigative guidelines that will
- 29:03expand the FBI's investigative tools now
- 29:07given your experience in the field can
- 29:09you describe in practical terms how will
- 29:11these new guidelines assist the FBI at
- 29:14least the field agents in carrying out
- 29:16the FBI mission or missions I have not
- 29:21had a chance to really fully read the
- 29:24modifications I have heard what the
- 29:27three you know the main topics that have
- 29:30been brought up about go
- 29:31into public meetings and surfing the net
- 29:33and there is one additional thing I
- 29:36think in those AG guidelines which
- 29:37delegates down to the SA sees the
- 29:40ability and the authority to open up a
- 29:42case a preliminary inquiry to the extent
- 29:47that I am definitely and I think we the
- 29:50the rest of the agents I've heard from
- 29:52are definitely in favor that when it's
- 29:54possible to delegate down to a lower
- 29:57authority level we will be more nimble
- 29:59and agile I am very much in favor of
- 30:02that ability to open up a preliminary
- 30:04inquiry by the SA see that aspects good
- 30:07I do want to maybe at some point get the
- 30:10chance to talk about how I know people
- 30:13this morning we're talking about their
- 30:16fear that some of these new abilities to
- 30:21monitor public meetings I have a little
- 30:24unique insight because I process Freedom
- 30:25of Information cases and I can I read
- 30:28some of our old files from the 1950s and
- 30:31I will see in there where we got the
- 30:34people back then for a lot of reasons
- 30:36got a little carried away when they went
- 30:38to a meeting they recorded everyone who
- 30:41came whether they were important or not
- 30:43whether the person advocated whatever
- 30:47you know a terrorist point of view or
- 30:50whatever and I see that type of thing
- 30:53that happened in the past or what I
- 30:55think that we need to do is a lot of is
- 30:58in the how and if you go to a public
- 31:01meeting for instance maybe someone maybe
- 31:03we've gotten a little bit of information
- 31:05that someone in that meeting might be
- 31:07discussing a terrorist act I think it is
- 31:10very good and logical that someone would
- 31:13go and sit in just to make sure that
- 31:15doesn't happen so if in fact a person
- 31:19stands up and says hey let's all do this
- 31:23let's all you know undertake this and
- 31:26gives a speech about undertaking an act
- 31:27of terrorism we are now going to be in a
- 31:29position that we will know it now if
- 31:32that same agent even based on a good tip
- 31:35goes to the meeting and people are
- 31:37merely engaging in their First Amendment
- 31:39rights here's the the thing nothing
- 31:42happens
- 31:42from that information that's the
- 31:43difference in the 50s we don't come back
- 31:46and record who was there we do not look
- 31:49into the people
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