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Coleen Rowley Interview — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:19we're gonna be skyping with Coleen
0:21Rowley a former FBI special agent she
0:24was a 9/11 whistleblower and she's done
0:28a lot of work talking about very
0:30important things civil liberties you may
0:33recall a good right after the terrorist
0:37attack at 9/11 that there was a report
0:39about above the FBI agent who would
0:41alerted them to the fact there were
0:43people on the short list they weren't
0:46were surveilling everybody in the
0:47country they had a short list of people
0:49they were supposed to be following and
0:50one of the things they were supposed to
0:52be looking for was a possibility
0:54somebody might want to fly planes and do
0:56some of the planes and she said well
0:57we've got people going to flight school
0:59they want to learn how to fly they don't
1:02want to learn how to land and that
1:04sounds like a problem and somehow the
1:07information wasn't dealt with properly
1:09she's done a lot of work to protect our
1:12civil liberties to promote the cause of
1:13peace she's also done a lot of work
1:15interestingly if your Facebook for
1:17instance her you would see this she does
1:19a lot of work explaining why Comey and
1:24Mueller and clapper and Brennan and that
1:28whole gang are corrupt and she Muller
1:32and call me because she knew them from
1:33her FBI days and things that went on
1:35there and she's not the only one that
1:37has raised the issue but it's
1:39particularly relevant now of course
1:40because we have the situation where
1:42they're trying to do this in effect a
1:46coup d'etat against the president United
1:48States and and Colleen has written and
1:52spoken passionately about that she's
1:54also been to Moscow where she met with
1:57Julian Assange she was a group of
2:00intelligence agents and who work on
2:03these sort of things that the veteran
2:06intelligence professionals for sanity
2:07vipps ray mcgovern who we've seen here
2:10before I was also one of those people
2:11she was also there they gave up assigns
2:15the Sam Adams Award and Sam Adams and
2:18not the same Adams from revolutionary
2:20Patriot days but a more contemporary Sam
2:22Adams who did a lot of work
2:25making sure that the intelligence
2:27community was giving honest information
2:28and and to the president and the people
2:31that needed the intelligence information
2:33and also that they weren't spying on us
2:35as they do now but that they were doing
2:38the work they needed to do against
2:40people over against people that were
2:42threatening our security
2:44hi Colleen how are you fine great there
2:48you are
2:49now we see you hello an enthusiast round
2:55of spontaneous applause for you which is
2:57well deserved I just had mentioned to
2:59the group that we have a state
3:00legislature coming down here will tell
3:02us about some of the legislative
3:03happenings in Lansing including he
3:06spearheaded the fourth member protection
3:08act in Colleen we were we are the
3:09leaders in the country according to the
3:12people a tenth Amendment Center in
3:14having non-cooperation with NSA and all
3:17other federal agencies when they attempt
3:19warrantless surveillance so how about
3:20that that's that's a great thing there
3:22so we're very very nice of you to take
3:25the time to chat with us I in between
3:28the the Skype calls I was telling the
3:30group here about your history in your
3:32heroic background and there are so many
3:34things that we can talk about as we
3:36discuss the other day in fact you had
3:38that one interview that you posted today
3:41about the science of coercion and that
3:44fellow was was talking about all the use
3:46of propaganda and the psychological
3:48tricks and he stopped at 1960 which is
3:52interesting but there's so much
3:54happening including the the Julian
3:56Assange situation now you've been to
3:57Moscow a net with Julian right with Rey
3:59and the other people maybe we should
4:02start with that and would you would you
4:03like to talk a little bit about your
4:05trip when you met with Julian assigns
4:07and what's happening now with the
4:08Ecuadorian embassy and and all these of
4:10the threats to him and the freedom of
4:12speech
4:13sure I'd be happy to you know actually
4:18I'm thinking about the Spygate
4:22Trump use the term Spygate and in his
4:27tweet you know lamenting that maybe the
4:31FBI had an informant or someone put into
4:34its campaign so if you start thinking
4:36about spy games that's a lot broader
4:40than just what happened with the Trump
4:42campaign and in 2016 or maybe even a
4:46little bit before that Snowden
4:51revelations were about spying on all
4:55Americans and of course the reason for
4:59the spine on Americans let me just back
5:01up one second ago it's fine it's
5:04supposed to be between countries
5:06so in fact Russia gate you know
5:10everybody that the Democrats are so
5:12upset about Russia gate but in fact
5:14Russia's spying on the United States and
5:17the United States spying on Russia as
5:20well as every other country you know
5:22even allies has been going on for
5:25hundreds of years that's actually the
5:28way it's supposed to be our country's
5:30spy on each other and they actually do
5:32that to get leverage they use it it's
5:35part of the soft power
5:37it sells euphemistic but it's part of
5:39their soft power in order to get
5:41leverage in diplomacy and so you know we
5:45shouldn't be outraged about Russia gate
5:47we should just consider at the norm and
5:50if we want you know our spine is the
5:52same way looks someone wants to get rid
5:55of all spine okay so they're prepared
5:57for the backdrop but there's something
5:59far far worse than foreign countries
6:02spying on us and uh spying on foreign
6:04countries which is our own government
6:07unconstitutionally spying on Americans
6:10if you didn't know this was happening
6:12you know there were NSA whistleblowers
6:15even before I said word Snowden they
6:18were facing jail time Thomas Drake faced
6:2235 years of jail time for having
6:25disclosed that that Bush turned on the
6:28the lever to spy on all Americans right
6:32after 9/11 when you know when they
6:34thought they had the chance and the
6:36opportunity so the problem with this
6:39kind of spying is the reason for this is
6:42to manipulate a course and control the
6:45Americans in different ways and it also
6:50didn't just start before 9/11 J Edgar
6:53Hoover was a master of this fine and he
6:55had more dirt on every important
7:00political figure in Washington DC than
7:02anyone and in fact was considered the
7:04most powerful person in Washington DC
7:07because he did have this dirt I'm
7:09everyone from Hell over Eleanor
7:10Roosevelt to Albert Einstein to every
7:14senator etc and so there is a there is
7:17precedent for our governments fine
7:20there's something Elvis does even maybe
7:23it just gets worse and worse and worse
7:25because now there are private companies
7:29sometimes they're in league with the
7:32government of service and sometimes
7:34they're just acting on their own and the
7:37most recent ones were the Cambridge
7:39analytical in Great Britain
7:42and also black group in Israel and you
7:47know there's there's some oh there's
7:50some possible information theory that
7:53these were actually also aligned with
7:56intelligence agencies that that
7:58Cambridge analytic awaz what was aligned
8:01with some of the British intelligence
8:03and black cube is aligned with Mossad
8:05okay
8:06just yes because these are the ones that
8:09have made the public this is the tip of
8:12the iceberg and almost every single day
8:16there is a story out about how because
8:19Americans are on social media on
8:21Facebook and Google and YouTube etc and
8:26then they have networks everybody has a
8:28network of friends every single day
8:30there's almost a new article out about
8:33how a private company has vacuumed up
8:37swept up all of this information about
8:40people and their friends in order to
8:43somehow you know use that information
8:47exploit it for their own benefit so this
8:51science of coercion was an old film and
8:54there are some other old ones too but if
8:56you go all the way back to the 1920's
8:591930's
9:00edward bernays had this idea that he
9:02would he would have figure out how he
9:05could get a merit you know people to do
9:07what he wanted and by using nice
9:10psychological emotional based things he
9:13figured out how to do propaganda he's
9:15kind of kind of considered the father of
9:17propaganda he got women that didn't
9:20smoke all excited to learn how to smoke
9:23by just watching important women walked
9:25down the street smoking you got the
9:27planted the idea in their heads and you
9:29got a lot of women smoking but that was
9:32just one little example well
9:34government entities as well as private
9:37companies have picked up on this and so
9:40they you know they want they want people
9:43to either buy their product or use their
9:45service and or in the terms of in the
9:48government they want us to continue the
9:50warfare state and so they don't want
9:53what happened during the time where
9:55people got mad and went in the street
9:57and protests etc they want to keep
9:59people manipulated and and for you know
10:03bombing foreign countries or demonizing
10:07Russia demonizing China demonizing Iran
10:10all all of these I don't even know are
10:12our enemy lists now is so extensive in
10:14the world but even now - even almost
10:17include some of our former allies that
10:19it's almost ridiculous and so for
10:22Americans to continue to go along with
10:24this is really stupid but to a large
10:27extent they are it's pretty propaganda I
10:30think we have to understand maybe
10:32libertarians are a little better I would
10:35hope that there are more critical minded
10:37people they don't always fall for this
10:40emotional propaganda but unfortunately
10:43if you check the polls a lot of
10:45Americans do fall for it and it's it's
10:48really the it's really the worst form of
10:53Liberty of losing your Liberty because
10:55that you know we have you know freedom
10:58tubes to speak and freedom to you know
11:02freedom against coerced and confessions
11:05etc but this is almost a freedom to
11:08think when they're trying to manipulate
11:11your mind by by planting ideas and by
11:15gathering private information on you so
11:18they are better able to target you when
11:21there are false personas on social media
11:24out there constantly with their little
11:26tricky endeavors I know
11:29Denis's on the sign so he spoke with me
11:32and we kind of see some of these things
11:33from time to turn so when you see these
11:35it's a really good efforts at propaganda
11:39it's scary because what they're trying
11:41to do is take away your freedom to even
11:43think let alone speak and act etc
11:46they're taking away your freedom to
11:47think and make us all into like little
11:50zombies and so that when you know Big
11:52Brother stands up in the screen and
11:55tells us something that we all just you
11:56know you know say yeah great go ahead
12:00the other component of this is political
12:04campaigns and political campaigns work
12:07wonderful with propaganda and the reason
12:10for that is because political campaigns
12:12already have a tribalism they already
12:16are imbued with a group thinking
12:18tribalism if you if you join a party
12:21it's kind of like you're you're saying
12:23okay anything that you hold out for me I
12:26will go along with because it's my
12:28loyalty to my party is number one wait
12:30wait a minute wait a minute Jimmy coleen
12:32coleen
12:33you're kidding they would actually do
12:36that you know even to vote in Minnesota
12:41I would wear one of the states in
12:43Minnesota that he has the best I think
12:45we are one of the best equipped for
12:48independent people that don't want to
12:50subscribe to a party but for instance to
12:53go to a to go to a caucus or a
12:56convention when you come in you're
12:58supposed to sign that you're loyal to
13:00that party now the good thing about
13:02Minnesota is that we don't have to
13:04register on a party so we when we voted
13:08in the primary we can only vote on one
13:10party we can't vote further for both but
13:12we at least only have to register so
13:15we're not for what's the word we're not
13:17profiled in that way and I think that's
13:19at least that's at least something
13:21that's good but you know yeah they want
13:24party loyalty and so
13:26party there you know where does it know
13:28in the United States 30 30 percent or so
13:31of us are not affiliated with a party
13:34anymore and I I think that numbers may
13:36be growing a little bit
13:38I actually before a dependent critical
13:41thinking and I I think that the
13:43tribalism that goes with parties is a
13:45problem but in any event what I was
13:48trying to say was that the propaganda
13:51and this endeavor to get dirt on the
13:55other opponent candidate opponent and
13:58then to get your but you get votes by
14:02putting out the dirt at an opportune
14:04time I mean it's it's really it it means
14:07that the issues don't matter in a way it
14:10really means that this is nothing but a
14:12big game but we've been doing this for
14:15some time the difference in the last
14:17five years or so is we got big crack
14:21maybe ten years we've got big private
14:24companies like Cambridge like blue a
14:27black cube like the others and they are
14:30spying on people in order to try to
14:34figure out what will work to manipulate
14:37them in order to get them in sync with
14:40either a party or a candidate and then
14:43all and I think even worse is to get
14:45them in sync with the warfare or the the
14:48you know the United States made of
14:50Israel warfare state which wants nothing
14:53but perpetual war so that's you know I
14:58really do want to say too much more
14:59except that spy game is a good term in a
15:03way but it's a lot broader than what
15:06most people are thinking of it as it's a
15:08lot it
15:09it's really the more accurate
15:13description than Russia gate it's much
15:15more accurate than Russia gate but it's
15:18much broader and it's means that they're
15:20trying to take away our ability to think
15:23for ourselves and my and the media I
15:27forgot to mention the media of course
15:29everyone knows the media is bought and
15:31sold on this thing and so they are just
15:35fulfilling the orders here and they
15:38never they don't allow any kind of
15:40dissent or critical thinking they are
15:42part and parcel of this manipulation so
15:45if people have a question I'd be happy
15:47to talk about it the latest news is call
15:50me as getting of the latest news is that
15:52call me is getting criticized it was
15:55just on the news tonight by the
15:57Inspector General of the Department of
16:00Justice who are not following the DOJ
16:03advice and I kind of think about this I
16:07I know I'm not a big I'm not a fan at
16:09all of call me I criticized him and
16:12Muller both but this particular
16:14criticism of not following a superiors
16:17advice I'm thinking that's probably not
16:20the worst thing he's ever done you know
16:23in my view no the other things that he's
16:25done in his career have been worse than
16:28that and in some cases I would I you
16:31would want people not to follow the
16:33advice because Loretta Lynch who was his
16:37boss is also being criticized as having
16:40met Clinton on the tarmac and then not
16:44recusing herself and so if you think
16:46about it he shouldn't have followed the
16:48letter with his advice because she was
16:50already doing bad things so it's pretty
16:52darn difficult but anyways they're both
16:55calling in for criticism now and that's
16:57funny in a way because everybody has
17:00been putting called me on a pedestal and
17:02now
17:03is gonna be criticized for having made
17:06comments about Hillary Clinton 11 days
17:08before the election right well and I had
17:12mentioned earlier during the
17:13introduction again while you weren't on
17:15the Skype yet the the band record of
17:19Comey and Muller and these other people
17:21on how you've called them out and you
17:23had personal experience dealing with
17:24Muller and you pointed out things that
17:26Comey and Muller had done which were
17:28wrong and other people are putting out
17:29Comey Muller and clapper and Brennan and
17:31and and frankly it's an outrage that
17:35those four are not hauled up on charges
17:37over the things they've done the lies
17:39they've told the Congress the things
17:41they've done to the American people and
17:42this was a so here's a question that I
17:44wanted to ask you and see we could delve
17:46into this a little bit Colleen and you
17:49mentioned these groups of Cambridge
17:50analytical and I think the black cube
17:52thing is particularly interesting and
17:55worrisome black cube these ex-mossad
17:58people who apparently had been hired
18:01through that organization by Harvey
18:02Weinstein you know to us and besmirched
18:05and and and he's threatened and
18:07intimidated the women that we're
18:08accusing him of sexual assault
18:12essentially that they had been hired
18:15apparently by somebody and it's not
18:16clear yet exactly who did the hiring but
18:20they were going after people like PETA
18:22Parsi and others there's another fellow
18:25Ben Rhodes I think this name I think he
18:27was a in the Obama administration and
18:29treated Parsi is the person of the
18:32National Iranian American Council and
18:34was working as an advocate for
18:38lowering the tensions with Iran over
18:40what our friend Gareth Porter calls the
18:43manufactured crisis about which Sheldon
18:46Richman calls the non-existent nuclear
18:49weapons program that in the people who
18:51know all knew it was non-existent but
18:55now you have this apparently these ex
18:58foreign government agents because of
19:03their status will not be held it may be
19:06some of the same legal jeopardy as would
19:09a domestic mercenary and they're being
19:11used to smear or Americans who are
19:15working at and reducing tensions and
19:17getting out honest information and that
19:20sort of thing reducing the threat of war
19:22and also overturning the US government
19:26policy in a very surface manner and this
19:30seems a particularly problematic and I
19:32wondered what some of your thoughts
19:33might be on that and the threatened
19:36group luvdisc opposed to somebody like
19:38treetop RC or Ben Rhodes or any of us
19:39particularly if people didn't realize it
19:41was going on but what do you think about
19:43that well these X intelligence agents
19:48make very good spies if they go to work
19:52for private companies and the reason is
19:54they were trained John Kiriakou the
19:58former CIA agent who was the was the
20:02whistleblower on torture said that the
20:06CIA actually hires people with some
20:09psychopathic talents okay so these these
20:13things are the the ability to read other
20:16people okay so if you're trying to
20:18recruit spies as a CIA agent you have to
20:22be able to quickly figure out what makes
20:25that person tick and then you try to use
20:28whatever you figure out about that
20:30person then to get them to flip on your
20:33side
20:34and so these skills are very translate
20:38very very well for trying to you know
20:41the an undercover essentially it's an
20:45undercover or a false persona that is
20:49approaching people and pretending to be
20:52something they're not
20:53so in the case of Ben Rhodes I think it
20:56was Ben Rhodes assistant kids Weiss was
20:59on on the Internet
21:01and she gets approached by someone who
21:04says I take an interest in you because
21:06of the school your child goes to so all
21:09of a sudden she gets messages from
21:11somebody who's claiming that they are
21:14interested in helping support her her
21:17child's elementary school okay and so
21:21she get email back once or twice you
21:23know like whatever so this is the type
21:25of kind of very deep spying on people
21:28pretending to be something trying to get
21:30dirt on other people and these former
21:33intelligence people of course are going
21:35to be scooped up and hired by these
21:37private companies the bad thing is even
21:40if one of these private companies goes
21:42under but now that it gets found out you
21:45know will happen you'll be like
21:46Blackwater it'll change its name it'll
21:49reconfigure you know it's still out
21:51there operating I can almost I would
21:54almost bet without any you know I would
21:58bet a lot that the Israeli former Mossad
22:01people are still out there doing this
22:04only they're not calling themselves
22:05black you there's a whole brand new
22:08thing out there doing the same thing and
22:10you know as long as it's it's really
22:12it's really a problem because before it
22:15gets exposed it can operate it can do a
22:19lot of damage now you know what people
22:22are gonna do is people are gonna become
22:23very very cautious and especially if you
22:26are a public figure and you are you know
22:29involved in things you're gonna probably
22:31almost become cautious to the point of
22:33becoming paranoid and this this is
22:36actually what what Hoover did to people
22:38Hoover made people in Washington DC
22:40paranoid he would just have to walk in
22:42the room and give them a look and these
22:45people would tremble not thinking that
22:47he knew something about them and so I
22:50think this is what's gonna happen we're
22:52gonna have more and more mistrust it's
22:55bad as it is already but these these spy
22:58outfits
22:59privates fine outfits and especially on
23:03public figures there's a certain amount
23:06of schadenfreude you know when up when
23:08Snowden came out and told everyone that
23:11the government was spying on every
23:12people said well I don't have anything
23:14to hide I'm a nobody you know you're
23:17listening to me talk to my mother-in-law
23:18you know who cares and so people you
23:22know this was the argument that was made
23:23the public figures were the ones making
23:27that argument the public figures in the
23:30Washington DC elites were the ones
23:32saying oh don't listen to Edward Snowden
23:35I heard Dianne Feinstein say this and in
23:38a committee I heard I actually heard I
23:41want to say it was the FBI officials
23:43saying don't worry we're just listening
23:46in to terrorists you have nothing to
23:47hide
23:48blah blah blah the funny thing is now
23:51this is actually been turned on for
23:55Washington DC Li's the FBI look at look
23:58at even strike and Paige the two FBI
24:00lovers did they think their tax would
24:03become public yet somebody would be
24:05scooping them up and they would all
24:06become public you know there's no
24:08privacy and and it's it's bad for the
24:11average American but it's a lot worse if
24:15you're a public figure if you're a
24:16politician if you're a director of
24:19agency these are the people that should
24:22have cracked down on it right from the
24:23start because it has all been turned on
24:26them and they should have real I I was a
24:29part of people who tried to make that
24:30argument because I knew that they were
24:32the
24:32for power that club rein it in in fact
24:35they refused to do it
24:37the latest one to refused to do it was
24:39Nunez and Nunez was complaining about
24:42the spine on the Trump campaign and yet
24:45he voted to continue that the the
24:48government's fine so they have to
24:51understand that they have the ones being
24:53targeted to Nunez is you know what
24:55Albert Chan even Nunez has been spied on
24:57by now so they really have to realize
25:00that this whole spine thing is got to be
25:03reined in and that we can't have
25:06democracy we need freedom to think we
25:08need freedom to speak and if going back
25:12I'm just gonna say one more thing about
25:14Julian Assange because freedom of the
25:16press and freedom to speak he's been now
25:19a puzzle completely empty Ecuador
25:22embassy he has not been allowed to speak
25:25for I think to his least two months
25:27three months it's a long time and he
25:30could be facing you know some kind of he
25:34is facing an indictment so can't leaves
25:37question is will Ecuador hand him over
25:39and there's been a lot of talk about how
25:41the Ecuador and the new Ecuador leader
25:43is about ready to hand him over so the
25:47other media in our country the New York
25:49Times The Washington Post they're all
25:51applauding this they did not like the
25:54fact that WikiLeaks was too truthful and
25:58competed with them and forced them in
26:01some cases to print honest truthful
26:04stories based on on documents they
26:07didn't like that they prefer to do
26:10transcriptions from the government and
26:12in curry curry their their relationships
26:15with important officials they don't like
26:18actually listening
26:19they don't even like listening to
26:21whistleblowers the New York Times or
26:22whatever unless it it's something that's
26:24already with their agenda and WikiLeaks
26:27was was really being a nuisance to them
26:29so unfortunately
26:31the taking down of WikiLeaks they don't
26:35understand this the New York Times
26:37Washington Post's LA Times it's the
26:40beginning of the end for freedom of the
26:42press and so they all should be fighting
26:44this tooth and nail and and
26:46unfortunately I don't see him doing that
26:50No right they're not doing that a very
26:53interesting point that you had made
26:56earlier about newness and that whole
27:00group the Pfizer renewal was going on
27:04they knew what was happening with the
27:06spying on the Trump campaign and they
27:08didn't like it they'd seen that memo
27:11they still voted for the the FISA
27:14renewal and it shows you really how well
27:16hypocritical these people are and noonas
27:18this record actually previous to that
27:20was pretty bad but we've said some good
27:22stuff about the FISA thing after you
27:24know the Trump thing came out and this
27:26attempted coup and a lot of information
27:28coming out there but also something else
27:29that's and as you point out I mean there
27:31are a few people that are getting up
27:33this information you know in the
27:34alternative media our our next talk is
27:37gonna be by Shane Trejo who's our local
27:39Tenth Amendment Center person one of our
27:41people here in campaign for liberty
27:42talking about social media censorship
27:44and suppression of information but this
27:46is such a widespread problem as is as
27:48you mentioned Colleen and yours Assange
27:50and I was actually with Snowden that you
27:52went to see in Moscow that's right cuz
27:53he was there and the scientists didn't
27:56London in that in that embassy over
27:57there but they're clearly trying to get
27:59rid of this guy and is that many people
28:00point out you point out and Glenn
28:01Greenwald than others it was a signs and
28:04it was Snowden that we're getting up the
28:05information they've never been refuted
28:06on anything that they came out with
28:08whereas the mainstream media is is shown
28:11to be wrong repeatedly on a serial basis
28:1424/7 and so that that's really bad now
28:17something else that's interesting is is
28:18it looks like more and more people are
28:20in there was a great editorial I think
28:22by former ambassador to Russia
28:26the former mr. Matlock looking at the
28:28Russia gate hysteria and you want see
28:29the whole thing and pretty much
28:30everything they tried to say about Trump
28:32Russia collusion there's no evidence
28:35at best it worse has already been
28:37disproven so it's all nonsense but there
28:39has been foreign collusion but it hasn't
28:41been Russian collusion but the campaign
28:43promoting this Russia hysteria has great
28:47danger for everyone because at a certain
28:49point when in the Gregg policies way
28:51this way my wife was saying every time I
28:55said sometimes it seems like maybe
28:56president Trump was trying too hard to
28:58prove that he's not in Putin's pocket
29:00and his Greenwald and others have said
29:01well if he was a Russian agent it'd be
29:02the worst Russian agent ever because he
29:05said a lot of great stuff during the
29:06campaign and now men the relations are
29:09really bad and here Jeremy Scahill just
29:11did he probably saw he intercepted he's
29:14showing all the different foreign
29:15collusion Saudi Arabia Israel in the
29:18United Arab Emirates and actually having
29:20meetings with Eric Prince and this other
29:22is Jorge nadir fellow and and some other
29:25people and it looked and there is stuff
29:26going on you look at our foreign policy
29:28and the weapons sales and everything
29:30else and and the context between these
29:31groups and the switch from the
29:33administration's position pre-election
29:36to after inauguration and some of these
29:39things that it makes your head spin so
29:41there really is a proud before in
29:42collusion but it's not the one the media
29:43is talking about and and I know that
29:46you'll be stunned to hear that that's
29:47amazing that this would ever happen but
29:49but but nonetheless it's a real problem
29:51that we're facing and so it looks like
29:54something needs to be done about it
29:57I'm not sure what it is other than
30:00people ought to be raising a real human
30:02crying I guess now of course Caitlin
30:03Johnstone and others and yourself and
30:05Roger Waters's at his concert right he
30:08just said something about Assange so
30:09this seems to be a very important thing
30:11that we need to all do what we can to
30:13protect a Julian Assange because if they
30:15take him down that's a huge linchpin in
30:19from their standpoint in getting rid of
30:21the free flow of information even in the
30:23alternative media area right
30:26that's exactly right because there's no
30:29real distinction between what WikiLeaks
30:32published and what the New York Times
30:35published for instance the Pentagon
30:36Papers etc there's no distinction there
30:39and the fact is they're trying to make
30:41WikiLeaks tied to a foreign like to
30:45write to Russia without any proof at all
30:47and so that's that they once this
30:50happens they can go after any media that
30:54a story that they don't like whatever
30:56yeah if someone once a week the pentagon
30:59paper type thing they could go after
31:01them there'd be no nothing to stop them
31:03so if we don't really have to fight for
31:06WikiLeaks I think at this time we can
31:10always hope that there could be more
31:12WikiLeaks you know we don't need to stop
31:14WikiLeaks we need to actually get more
31:17very brave courageous press people out
31:21there willing to publish things and you
31:24know and go up against the power
31:28yes now another thing that came out
31:31about leaks I think we have a little bit
31:35of delay here on the other thing there
31:36but you mentioned John Kirikou earlier
31:39and his work revealing the CIA torture
31:43program and if somebody pointed out
31:46there were crimes committed
31:49somebody short has shone a light on it
31:50somebody blew the whistle curry cow goes
31:53to jail those are prison one of the
31:55participants and allegedly a participant
31:57in destroying the evidence of the crimes
31:58is now the head of the CIA and so we
32:02have a real problem here and even of
32:04course is Ray McGovern and others point
32:06out torture is wrong it's morally wrong
32:09it's also against United States law and
32:11President Reagan was outspoken about
32:13this as was George Washington way back
32:15then it's against international law and
32:18yet and it does and it doesn't work it's
32:21it's ridiculous fulfill one to get false
32:23statements or propaganda statements but
32:24not actual apparently information that
32:28can be used and they have another number
32:30able testify this event and then proven
32:32that apparently so and I know you're
32:35very active in that area too with
32:37tackling torture at the top and other
32:39things and I'm wondering what your
32:41thoughts are as to what we can do to
32:44fight the torture regime and and point
32:46out also that all of these techniques
32:48including the torture are used against
32:50people who are accused of something not
32:53on trial not proven guilty but they use
32:57torture to try to get a confession from
33:00somebody on things and what are your
33:01thoughts are and how we can fight that
33:04if this is complicated for the short
33:08time I have but you know the FBI was
33:11really the the only agency that had
33:14expertise in in actually interviewing
33:17and interrogating suspects and most of
33:21our best agent interviewers were very
33:25good at you know and that's in a way
33:28they had to saying that they were
33:32friendly with the subject it was the
33:34opposite of torture by the way because
33:36you're pretending to empathize that's
33:40really they think the thing here is
33:41you're pretty you're emphasizing maybe
33:44with a child killer
33:45okay our agents we had some agents that
33:48actually could do this they could get
33:50you know a subject of a guy who had
33:54killed a child to lead them to the body
33:57because they were able to empathize now
34:00if they had tried to torture the
34:02information out it would have been just
34:04the opposite so even though they when
34:07this happened one of our FBI agents who
34:10was in the room when they when they with
34:12me a CIA approached and said all we're
34:14gonna take the gloves off we have these
34:16contractors that know how to introduce
34:20people the helplessness and somehow when
34:22we terrorize them and reduce them to
34:24helplessness that'll be good the only
34:26thing torture is good for is for
34:30concocting false intelligence the Salem
34:33witch trials the Inquisition what Stalin
34:37did you know to get confessions from
34:39people that he could say that's all well
34:42they can they confessed that they were
34:43communist or what excuse me they confess
34:45that they were spies or whatever so in
34:48the case of after 9/11 they were using
34:52torture to try to get the
34:55this lie that Saddam Hussein was behind
34:599/11 and two of the people they tortured
35:02actually you know were you know said Oh
35:06Saddam has chemical weapons biological
35:08weapons etc they lie because they were
35:11being tortured then Dick Cheney stood up
35:14and said AHA and dick and Powell in :
35:17Powell at the UN stood up and said we
35:20have intelligence that Saddam has these
35:23weapons of mass destruction this came
35:25from torture so when people say it works
35:28it doesn't work it works to get false
35:31confessions yes it works to get false
35:34confessions if that's what you want
35:36these people were trying to concoct a
35:38lie to go to war in Iraq and it worked
35:42in the sense of getting some of that
35:43some of those lies but it does not work
35:47it does not work to get good information
35:50from people and so the only way that you
35:53get good information from people is by
35:55building rapport and empathizing with
35:57them and in some cases it's not possible
36:00you know and reducing people that
36:04helplessness is not going to do to work
36:06as a rule and it's sad because now we're
36:10at the stage where it hasn't been
36:12totally made illegal internationally
36:15countries out there now in the UN one of
36:19the UN investigators ICC excuse me the
36:23international court investigator been
36:25sued are in and and I think the EU the
36:29European Union they have all
36:33investigated it and they're going after
36:36you know parts of parts of the of what
36:39the United States is done so we haven't
36:42faced any accountability we've all
36:44covered it up in the United States but
36:46in the world right now and it's the
36:49leading recruiting tool for terrorism
36:53terrorists is to point to the United
36:55States and say look what they did they
36:57tortured black sites Guantanamo it's the
37:00leading recruitment for extremist
37:03terrorist Isis etc so we we've really
37:06you know shot ourselves in the foot and
37:09yet these officials you saw it with
37:11Hezbollah nomination and you saw the
37:14Democrats all voting for it enough to
37:16confirm Haspel and not all of them not
37:20all of them but a larger number of them
37:23you had Warner did the hypocrisy is
37:26incredible and so we're gonna we are
37:29going to continue to see more of their
37:31results there are always as consequences
37:34in blowback for violating these kind of
37:37real universal principles that have
37:40stood the test of time like due process
37:42you know anybody who thinks they can get
37:44rid of due process and now have military
37:46commissions and and you know just charge
37:48people and never inside the threats and
37:52all these things that they're doing and
37:53not have any consequences for it it's
37:55greatly mistaken this is all blowing
37:58back in different ways and it's leading
38:00to a form of chaos and Anarchy here in
38:03the United States you know this was what
38:06the famous thing by Justice Brandeis
38:08when the government becomes the
38:10wrongdoer
38:11it breeds anarchy because everybody's
38:14looking at these top levels and this is
38:16their example in their model so the
38:18blowback now is that you know people are
38:21not going to be following that the leave
38:24the law and they're just gonna be you
38:26know taking the law into their own hands
38:27we have shooters you know the all these
38:30all these really bad consequences that
38:32are not being connected to the law Wars
38:34and the lies that
38:35have sustained Wars okay well Colleen we
38:40really appreciate your time
38:42there's even more we could talk about
38:44like the drone warfare and without
38:45problems from that and all these
38:46interventions around you know but I
38:50guess we're out of time now but I want
38:51to thank you very much we you certainly
38:53build empathy with us with your
38:54knowledge and your understanding and
38:56your dedication to these very important
38:58principles and as you say and then the
38:59group here in this room including those
39:01that run for political office and within
39:03a political party the thing that ties
39:05everybody here together is putting
39:06principle first and it's our duty as
39:08human beings it's our duty as Americans
39:09and that's what everybody here does and
39:12we appreciate everything you've done so
39:13ladies and gentlemen a big round of
39:14applause for Colleen Riley she truly is
39:16an American Hero if we don't keep really
39:24trying we're gonna lose it okay so we
39:29have one question here I guess somebody
39:31Oh Michael Shaw
39:32Michael come up by the microphone so she
39:34can hear you
39:43hello ma'am thank you for the
39:46information my name is Michael shalalala
39:47I'm running for Michigan State Senate
39:49District and also spent 15 years working
39:52in the intelligence community I was a
39:54counterintelligence counterinsurgency
39:56analyst senior intelligence analyst I've
39:59done five tours to combat I also
40:02supported several intelligence
40:04[Music]
40:06departments here in stateside I want to
40:09first thank you for bringing up the fear
40:12mongering tactic that actually is being
40:15implemented here also I want to talk
40:18about this separation between CIA versus
40:20FBI reach and breach and how do you feel
40:25about fights how confident are you with
40:26the with the FISA Court I mean since its
40:29inception since it was signed back in
40:311978 it was supposed to target foreign
40:36foreign intelligence and then kind of
40:39conduct surveillance on them non-stop
40:42however what's been happening is that
40:44this tactics are being implemented here
40:46on domestically on American citizens and
40:50there is no statue for how long they can
40:53investigate and I don't know if you can
40:55corroborate that information I mean
40:57obviously I've spent some time but I'm
40:58not as verse as you are when it comes to
41:02issues like that so if you could just
41:04tell everybody here what are we facing
41:06what are we dealing with and how could
41:08they actually put us in surveillance for
41:10a long time just without any suspicions
41:13and those warrantless arrest and and
41:16such and what have you thank you okay I
41:20just read your question it's about a
41:23little bit about the FISA Court the FISA
41:26Court was in a compromise in 1978 after
41:31the church committee because J Edgar
41:34Hoover used to do
41:35kinds of things without any court at all
41:38and so the church committee came down on
41:40that and the compromise was that they
41:43would have go to a secret court so this
41:45self would never become public but you
41:48would at least have some judges
41:49reviewing it and as the guy that just
41:53caught look what's his name again the
41:54person who just questioned me Oh Michael
41:56Michael and as Michael just said when it
42:01was instituted
42:03there was a wall between the FISA Court
42:07usage which targeted foreign in foreign
42:12countries you had to be an agent of a
42:15foreign power or of a terrorist group
42:17and so the wall was between regular
42:20criminal cases you couldn't like if you
42:22have a bank robber you couldn't go to
42:24the FISA Court and get a secret FISA
42:26surveillance to catch the bank robber
42:28because a bank robbery is a normal
42:30domestic crime and that was called the
42:33wall and that existed from 1978 until
42:372001 and after 9/11 there were two or
42:42three ways that the so called wall came
42:45down the one way was that the FISA Court
42:47of Appeals had an opinion that said the
42:51wall we should never have grown up this
42:54way we should have sharing between
42:56criminal and intelligence and the other
42:58way was that there were executive orders
43:01and the Patriot Act also brought the
43:04wall down because it changed one word in
43:07there and brought the wall down and so
43:0917 years later after the wall came down
43:13this is the route you don't hear anyone
43:16saying this I'm gonna say the root of
43:19the problem with this fine
43:21on the Trump campaign officials on and
43:26who was it now not Roger stone the other
43:30one Carter Carter page this fine that
43:34they leaked they went to the FISA Court
43:37they did tell the exact truth to the
43:39FISA Court and they got a year a year
43:43long or one to listen in to him and
43:46listen in to everybody talking to him
43:48which was probably a lot of people in
43:50the campaign that would not have
43:54probably occurred had it not been so
43:57this wall coming down between domestic
44:00and so on and so I think that that needs
44:04to be looked at but right now we're not
44:06even hearing anyone talk about the root
44:08cause you know as long as they can point
44:11to a foreign country like Russia and say
44:13oh well these people have Russia ties
44:15you have to be able to prove that a lot
44:18more than a specious British spy dossier
44:23you know this steel dossier and that's
44:26all they had and that was one of the
44:28main pieces of information so I would
44:31call the FBI for not having verified the
44:35steel dossier before they went to the
44:37FISA Court and used it as evidence and
44:40proof that call me she you know should
44:43be faulted as told me call me was you
44:45know charged he should have verified
44:46that before he went and then of course
44:48they use it to try to blackmail leverage
44:51i trunk a little bit to or tariffs you
44:53know scare him and so yeah this is
44:56really this is really a problem the FISA
44:59Court needs to have a way that they can
45:02be more circumspect we use only on
45:06foreign intelligence foreign terrorism
45:08not on domestic law enforcement thanks
45:13okay and but that's that's a great
45:16information and there we might say one
45:17other thing that when you mentioned what
45:18the spying something else that we need
45:20to focus on we don't have time to talk
45:21about it but but the attempt to make the
45:24the AUMF instead of a declaration of war
45:26have a perpetual AUMF which will include
45:29and codify sections 1021 and 1022
45:32of the 2012 a ndaa meaning we're all
45:37subject to potential indefinite
45:39detention without charge or trial in
45:41perpetuity this has to be stopped and
45:44predict Lee when you combine it with
45:45this spying and the illicit surveillance
45:48but at least you're in Michigan we did
45:50get through the thing where says the
45:52state will not cooperate with
45:53warrantless surveillance so that's
45:54that's something but the ladies and
45:55gentlemen again and thank you Mike it
45:57was a great question a big round of
45:58applause for Colleen what a photo source
46:00of great information and she's her
46:03heroic leader we look forward to
46:05speaking with you subsequently Colleen
46:06have a wonderful summer please
46:11[Music]

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