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Cold-Blooded Confession | Shelby Nealy Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00Where do you want to start?
0:01>> Well, we're not going to [ __ ] We
0:03know why you're here for the three
0:05deaths and everything. Okay.
0:07>> Correct.
0:14>> On January 1st, 2019, Tarpon Springs
0:17police were sent to a home for a welfare
0:19check. Family members had not heard from
0:22Richard and Laura Eventic since mid
0:24December, and the silence had continued
0:26through Christmas. When officers
0:28arrived, they found a Chrysler van in
0:30the carport, flies near the windows, and
0:32a strong odor coming from inside the
0:34home. Outside, there was also a freshly
0:37dug hole near the driveway with a shovel
0:39and rake nearby. Officers entered
0:42through an unlocked sliding glass door.
0:44Inside, the home appeared ransacked.
0:47They found drop cloths, rope, masks,
0:49gloves, and signs that someone had tried
0:52to move or cover evidence. Then, they
0:54found three bodies inside the residence.
0:5771-year-old Richard Ivancic, 59-year-old
1:01Laura Ivantic, and 25-year-old Nicholas
1:04Iventic. Investigators later determined
1:07all three had been killed by blunt force
1:09trauma to the head. As detectives began
1:12tracing the missing property, vehicles,
1:15and recent transactions connected to the
1:17family, one name became central to the
1:19investigation. Shelby John Neely. This
1:23is the interrogation of Shelby John
1:24Neely. Right. Then all set in the
1:27bottom.
1:34>> Thank you. There's another one.
1:37>> Did you uh did you give that to Mr.
1:39Patty?
1:42>> Okay. All right. Well, the floor is open
1:44to you, Shelby. I want to hear,
1:48like I said, I travel a long way to to
1:50talk to you. I want to know everything
1:53and anything that you want to tell me
1:55about whatever you want to talk about.
1:57>> Okay.
1:57>> Okay. And when we get done with that, if
1:59I have questions, I'll ask you some
2:01questions. That sound fair?
2:03>> Yeah, of course.
2:04>> Okay. Where do you want to start?
2:06>> Well, we're not going to [ __ ] We
2:08know why you're here. It's for the three
2:10deaths and everything. Okay. Correct.
2:15>> Okay. Well, obviously I did it.
2:18Um,
2:23I'm trying to think of where I begin
2:24this long story.
2:26Um,
2:28>> do you want me to ask you a question to
2:29get you started?
2:31>> I mean,
2:32>> or do you want to just think about it
2:33and you can start wherever you want?
2:35I mean,
2:38the story kind of like
2:43cuz I know your questions are basically
2:45like why the did this happen for obvious
2:47reasons.
2:51>> You know what? Why don't you start with
2:52questions and I'll just make my way into
2:54the story in the
2:56>> Okay.
2:56>> in a second. So,
2:58>> okay. Go.
2:58>> Well, I want to start way back.
3:00>> Way back.
3:00>> Childhood. How was your childhood?
3:02>> Oh, we want to go there. Um,
3:06you know, it was a it was a good man.
3:07>> Mom and dad both there, single mom,
3:10single dad.
3:11>> My birth father, he uh he was in Texas
3:14my whole childhood, but you know, I had
3:16a stepdad and he took care of me and I
3:18considered him my dad.
3:19>> Okay.
3:20>> And everything. Um, I would say I had a
3:22relatively good childhood.
3:25Really started going downhill when my
3:27father killed himself. My birth father.
3:29>> Okay.
3:30>> Uh, he
3:30>> How old were you when that happened? I
3:32was 17 and it was a day after my 17th
3:35birthday.
3:35>> Oh, I'm sorry. That's terrible. So,
3:36every time you think of your birthday,
3:37you think of that probably, right?
3:39>> Mhm.
3:39>> Yeah. That's not easy.
3:40>> Yeah. So, I don't really celebrate all
3:42like that.
3:43>> Yeah.
3:43>> Um, but for the most part, my childhood
3:46was good. I had Oh, are my kids taken
3:48care of? Like my mom picked them up and
3:50everything?
3:50>> I can ask. I believe they were with the
3:53child protection people, but usually I I
3:56was on a plane, so I can't say exactly
3:58where they are. When we're done, I'll
3:59find out exactly what you want to know.
4:01appointment. Um, we'll speak to the
4:03officers that are from this area.
4:04>> Okay.
4:05>> And we can better inform you of exactly
4:07their location.
4:08>> Okay. Last time I checked, my mom was on
4:10her way.
4:11>> Okay. She may have. Like I said, I I
4:13literally
4:14>> Shelby, I got off the plane and I came
4:16straight here.
4:17>> Yeah. I'm sorry about all this. You
4:19know,
4:20>> I didn't want to do any of this, man, to
4:23be honest with you. I mean, but continue
4:25with your question.
4:26>> Okay. So, so your dad passes away. Yes.
4:30And then you're with your mom and your
4:31stepdad.
4:32>> Yes.
4:32>> Okay.
4:32>> Um,
4:33>> how was it growing up? I mean, good.
4:35>> I mean,
4:36>> you said it was relatively good
4:37childhood.
4:37>> Yeah, childhood was good. I didn't run
4:39into problems until literally in my
4:41early adult life. Like literally as soon
4:43as I turned 18.
4:44>> So, when you were a kid, how were you
4:46disciplined? There was no like physical
4:48abuse, mental abuse.
4:49>> No. No. I mean, I would get, you know, I
4:51would get disciplined like any other
4:52kid. I was bad, you know, get Well,
4:55everybody has get ground for my stuff,
4:57get my stuff taken away. But, you know,
4:59I wasn't I wasn't the easiest of
5:02children to deal with either, you know.
5:04Um,
5:05>> like getting into mischief or
5:07>> Yeah, I was very mischievous and
5:09rebellious growing up. Um,
5:13I also got prescribed ADHD.
5:16Um,
5:17I just think the rebellion came from
5:19like strict rules and everything like a
5:22normal child,
5:23>> right?
5:24>> You just didn't like the rules.
5:25>> Yeah. So, I would just break them and
5:28everything. Um, well, a lot of kids go
5:30through that.
5:30>> Yeah. Yeah. My psych like I don't know
5:33if I'm psychotic or not, but my
5:35psychosis didn't really start taking
5:37effect till I was like starting to go
5:40through stuff. Um,
5:43early adult life, I turned 18. Um, I I
5:46move out of my parents house, you know,
5:48I'm still in school. I'm smoking weed,
5:50all this.
5:52Uh, I knock up a girl and then just
5:55somewhere down the lines I drop out of
5:58school.
6:00Uh, we marry and
6:04was just I think I I just had too much
6:07going on my plate back.
6:09>> That's a lot for a young young man to
6:10handle.
6:10>> Uh, I just was still dealing with my
6:13dad's death and everything. So, I
6:15started lashing out and uh and hitting
6:18her and everything and the marriage
6:19ended. Um,
6:21>> and what was her name?
6:22>> Her name was Caitlyn.
6:23>> Caitlyn. Okay.
6:24>> But we're on good just because all that
6:27stuff happened back in the past. We're
6:28on very good terms now.
6:31>> Did you Did she have the child?
6:33>> Yeah.
6:33>> Okay. Yeah. And how old was that child?
6:35>> Uh, she is six.
6:37>> And what's her name?
6:38>> Mackenzie.
6:38>> Mackenzie. Okay.
6:40>> Yes.
6:40>> All right. So, go ahead. Go ahead. Let
6:41me interrupt you.
6:42>> Michelle, I went to jail for domestic
6:44violence for like a couple days. And you
6:46know that was a real
6:49I would say a wakeup call but then it it
6:52really wasn't cuz like I started doing
6:54criminal stuff you know cuz then I went
6:57homeless shortly after that so I started
6:59going into Giant Eagle and stealing my
7:01food and everything. Um
7:04and then I would go to jail for that. Um
7:08so really like 18 and 19 were like my
7:11jail days honestly. Like I was doing um
7:16not super bad stuff, but you know, not
7:18>> Were you doing stuff to survive or were
7:21you doing it just because you were bad?
7:23>> No, I was doing stuff to survive like
7:25stealing food. Um you know, occasionally
7:28I would steal fun stuff. Um
7:31>> because I was homeless and I wanted to
7:33have some type of fun. Um
7:37I mean cuz I had like a DVD player that
7:39I carried and everything. So I would
7:41steal some DVDs.
7:42Let me ask you on the on the homeless
7:44part. Yes. You said your mom was good.
7:46You had a stepdad that cared for you.
7:48>> Yes.
7:49>> Did you just you were homeless by
7:50choice? You didn't want to live by
7:51rules?
7:52>> No, no, no, no. Um
7:54>> or this was after the girlfriend and the
7:55baby.
7:55>> This was after the girlfriend, the baby,
7:57the jail. So, my at this point
8:00Yeah. My parents don't really see a good
8:02person at this point. Okay. I got really
8:04>> They're not really trying to have that
8:06around uh like under their roof and
8:08everything, which is completely
8:09understandable. At that point, their
8:10son's a teenager. Their other son is a
8:13teenager. You know, I was smoking weed
8:15and all that stuff. It was an influence
8:17they they needed, but
8:21that's that homelessness definitely. Uh
8:27>> like I could definitely tell I got PTSD
8:29from it.
8:29>> So, how long were you homeless?
8:31Approximately
8:32>> 6 months.
8:32>> 6 months. And what what changed? when I
8:36met my second wife, which is their
8:38mother,
8:39>> Jamie.
8:40>> Yes.
8:40>> Okay. And how did you meet Jamie?
8:42>> Um, B I was a manager at Burger King by
8:45this point. Um, her brother was my
8:48employee.
8:49>> And where where is this at? What city
8:51and state?
8:51>> Uh, this is Ohio. This is actually up
8:54here
8:55>> before we all moved down here. Ohio.
8:57>> What city in Ohio?
8:58>> Parma.
8:59>> Parma. Okay.
9:00>> Mhm. Uh, I went home with him one night
9:03and to smoke weed. Um, and she was just
9:06standing there in the garage and we sort
9:08of just hit it off from there.
9:11>> Okay. So, and like approximately when
9:14was that? Like what month? What year? Do
9:16you remember?
9:19>> I could tell you it was 2015. Oh, when I
9:21met their mom. Actually, I should be
9:23able.
9:23>> Yeah. When you met Jane.
9:24>> Um,
9:26>> doesn't have to be exact. Just
9:27approximate.
9:28>> I want to say around April 2015. April
9:302015.
9:31>> Yes.
9:32>> Okay. And then then was it like one of
9:34those Love at Fire First Sight things?
9:36>> Yeah, it was very it was very quick.
9:38>> Hot and heavy quick.
9:39>> Yeah. Um
9:41>> and then me, her, and her brother moved
9:44down to Florida and
9:47>> and I started dating her and living with
9:48her and uh that's when really started
9:51getting bad.
9:53Um
9:54you know, everything was cool at first.
9:57Um,
10:01occasionally we would argue and, you
10:03know, she would, you know, smack me here
10:06and there. I was like, you know, it's
10:08whatever. It's a woman. They lose
10:10control of their emotions. And by this
10:12point, of course, you know, this is
10:15after the whole domestic violence bull.
10:17I'm really not trying to hit a woman and
10:19all that.
10:21So
10:24unfortunately
10:26their daughter was very
10:30put disrespectful towards rules when
10:33living under Can I get some quick I'm
10:35sorry.
10:41Get some water.
10:42>> Yeah.
10:44>> I'm sorry.
10:45>> You're good.
10:46>> You're good. I'm just trying to explain
10:49the whole stuff.
10:49>> No, like I said, if you need We got
10:51time. I got all the time in the world.
10:54Okay.
10:54>> At least we're not working with the
10:56stupid attorney that's not stopping two
10:58seconds.
11:03>> I wanted to be cooperative as possible
11:06when it came to this.
11:09>> So, he's he's getting your water.
11:11>> So, when you move from Ohio, is it just
11:13you, Nicholas, and Jamie? The three of
11:15you moved down and you moved.
11:17>> Well, we actually um she was actually
11:19cheating on me with her fiance um and he
11:23moved down there, but then he moved back
11:24up,
11:25>> but that's besides the point.
11:26>> Okay.
11:27>> Um
11:29but yeah, we're down there.
11:30>> Where were you guys living in Florida?
11:32>> West Palm Beach.
11:33>> West Palm Beach. Okay. Way down south.
11:35>> Yeah. Um
11:36>> and how did you guys pick that area?
11:39>> Their dad was living down there.
11:41>> Okay. way before any of them because um
11:47>> the mom and him had gotten into it.
11:50>> Um they were arguing a lot due to Jamie.
11:54Um
11:55and so um basically he just moved down
12:00um down south. As crazy as that is, I
12:03never heard of that.
12:04>> Yeah. Um,
12:05>> so when it comes to you and Jamie, like
12:09how do you how do you think you're doing
12:10as a dad?
12:12>> How I How do I think I'm doing as a dad?
12:15>> Yeah. Your kids?
12:16>> I think I did pretty damn good.
12:19>> Yeah.
12:19>> What do you think about Jamie as a
12:21mother? How do you think she was? I
12:23think she does.
12:24>> Uh, she did not do good.
12:26>> Can you give me some examples of why she
12:29didn't do good? Well,
12:33I mean, I'm going to be honest with you.
12:35She's not alive anymore because of what
12:37she tried to do. Um, we're going to get
12:40into that.
12:41>> Okay.
12:42>> You know, I I do apologize. And when I
12:45first started the conversation, it was
12:48it was kind of hard for me to like piece
12:51together how to like tell you that, but
12:54you know, we're at a good point now. She
12:56passed away. Um there was a we'll get
12:59into this incident, but there was an
13:01incident um down in Florida where she
13:05had an extreme case of psychosis and I'm
13:08sure you can look up all her records and
13:10stuff. I'm sure you've seen that she's
13:12attacked her parents in the past and all
13:13that good.
13:14>> Mhm.
13:17>> She was just she would get into a mode
13:19that she just could not control. When I
13:22tell you it would literally be like
13:23looking into the eyes of a demon. It
13:25literally was. So, she came at my
13:29daughter with a knife after she had like
13:31got done severely beating me. Uh, and
13:34there are scars on my body.
13:36I'm not giving myself an excuse, man.
13:39I'm just I'm just
13:41telling you the reason as to why
13:43happened.
13:43>> Mhm.
13:44>> But when you come at my daughter with a
13:46knife, you know, I don't you know, I
13:49have to stop you,
13:50>> right?
13:50>> And unfortunately, I went too far.
13:53I choked her out and then when the blood
13:56started coming out of her nose, I
13:57stopped. But
14:00>> it was too late.
14:00>> It was too late.
14:01>> And where was that at?
14:03>> This was at a house uh this was the last
14:06house that we had uh down in Florida and
14:08this was about a year ago.
14:10>> So she's been deceased for a year.
14:12>> Yes.
14:13>> Okay. Was that in West Palm?
14:14>> No, this was in uh close to Tarpon
14:18Springs. Uh,
14:22>> Newport Richie Newport.
14:24>> Do you remember the address?
14:26>> Ah, dude,
14:28I know it's
14:31>> okay.
14:32>> Um,
14:36as for the exact number, I do know.
14:39>> Okay. Do you
14:40>> I could I could point out the house
14:41name.
14:42>> Okay. Do you remember the color of the
14:43house?
14:44>> Yes, it was white.
14:46>> White house. It was you turn on the road
14:50the third or the fourth house on the
14:51left.
14:52>> Okay.
14:53>> It'll be a it'll be a driveway where
14:55it's a strange driveway where like
14:59does that and turns around and
15:01>> Okay. So, it's like a half moon Yes.
15:03>> driveway white house. Do you remember
15:05the trim? Is there like any trim?
15:06Shutter trim or paint trim?
15:08>> I think it was like a blue shutter trim.
15:11>> Okay.
15:11>> Like I said, I could point out the house
15:13if need be. Um, so you show a brow, you
15:17see blood, you let off of her, but she's
15:19already deceased.
15:20>> Yes.
15:22>> Where is she now?
15:23>> I buried her in that backyard.
15:25>> She's in the backyard of that home.
15:27>> Yes. Buried.
15:28>> Okay. In the backyard, if I gave you a
15:31piece of paper and you could just like
15:33draw a rough map, could you draw like a
15:36rough map of where she would be in the
15:38backyard?
15:39>> I could point it out to you. Okay. Uh
15:41just because I don't know how long it's
15:43you know I haven't gone there and
15:45visited or anything. There could be a
15:47grass.
15:48>> Just what I was what I was going to say
15:50was like show me if you could do like
15:52we'll just draw like have you draw like
15:54a square representing the house and then
15:56a backyard
15:58>> and then like a rough estimate of where
16:00you remember it being.
16:01>> Yeah. Because I just just want to help
16:03you guys at this point, man.
16:08water.
16:11>> And you can draw big if you need to. You
16:12got the whole piece of paper.
16:13>> Yeah, I just suck at drawing.
16:15>> Yeah, so do I. I draw stick figures. So,
16:18>> all right. So, say this is like the
16:20little deck that you walk in on.
16:23>> Okay.
16:24>> You turn immediately right and like walk
16:27five steps out and she should be buried
16:29right there.
16:31>> Okay.
16:34>> Now, I'm just going to do I'm just going
16:35to do some writing on here. Okay.
16:37>> Go ahead. So,
16:40and you tell me if I'm wrong at any
16:41time. Okay. So, this is Norwood Avenue.
16:43Yes. Correct. This is the front. Yes.
16:48Front of house.
16:58Okay. And there's some kind of a wooden
17:01deck off the back.
17:02>> Yes. Okay. I'm just going to draw an
17:03arrow. Wooden deck.
17:09And then
17:09>> to the right.
17:10>> Five paces to the right.
17:12>> To the right. Outside the deck. Yes.
17:20>> Okay. Now, you may not remember. Do you
17:23remember how deep it was?
17:28>> Way deeper than that stupid hole I dug
17:30up earlier.
17:32>> Deeper than the one you dug at the other
17:33house?
17:34>> Yeah. Okay.
17:34>> Way deeper. probably like double that.
17:37>> So 5T estimate
17:40in Okay.
17:45>> Okay.
17:46Um, did anybody ever ask you where she
17:49was?
17:50>> Oh, yeah. I mean,
17:53>> well, I obviously you're going to lie if
17:56you know something like that has
17:57happened, but I'm like, who asks you
17:59where she is? Like, doesn't Nick go,
18:00"Hey, where's my sister?" Or her parents
18:02call you or
18:03>> Well, yeah. Um, and thankfully I knew
18:07her so well. Um, I knew how to act like
18:10her. Um,
18:13it was weird, man. You know, they never
18:16talked to her over the phone or
18:18anything. I would just act like her. I
18:20was on text message and everything.
18:23You know, sometimes I would act angry at
18:26the parents and all this stuff, but uh,
18:30dude, I would just feel bad. So I would
18:32like send them pictures and everything
18:35of the kids cuz like they were
18:36persistent.
18:38Um and of course you know everybody else
18:41you know cuz I left for immediately um
18:44>> after that.
18:45>> Yeah.
18:45>> Let let me and I I don't think I asked
18:47this.
18:48>> Go ahead.
18:48>> Approximately what was the date that
18:52this occurred?
19:00It literally happened around a year last
19:02last year ago. Like approximately a year
19:04ago.
19:04>> Like literally in the beginning of 2018.
19:06Like this like January
19:08>> January of 2018.
19:10>> Yes. Like I was gone by uh by the end of
19:132018
19:15or not by the end of January. I'm sorry.
19:18>> So do you remember if it was beginning
19:19of January, end of January?
19:20>> It was definitely uh middle of January.
19:22>> Middle of January of 2018 on Norwood
19:24Avenue in Newport Richie. Yes.
19:30Okay. All right. So, let's fast forward.
19:33Is there Well, let me stop. Is there
19:35anything else that you want to discuss
19:36about that incident
19:40that you think's important or you want
19:42to get off your chest?
19:43>> No, I mean this is the type of she did
19:46to me.
19:47>> What was that from? Fingernails? A knife
19:50or?
19:51>> This was a knife. This was a hammer.
19:54that the mark right here.
19:56>> Yeah. Um
20:01>> I don't think Did you ever call the
20:03police on her?
20:04>> Police were called on her multiple times
20:06in
20:07>> in Newporti or where
20:10>> in just in Florida and Ohio, man. Like
20:14but
20:16I was just under her control, man. Like
20:18I know I come across as the evil one and
20:21quite honestly I am. You know, I'm a
20:22monster for the I did, but
20:25unfortunately, there's a reason for the
20:27that I did.
20:30She would go in jail, her parents would
20:32lie for her, she would come out, she
20:34would go into the psych ward, her
20:36parents would lie for her, she would
20:37come out, I would lie for her cuz I was
20:40under her control.
20:42Um,
20:43>> that would you say she was like the
20:45psychosis that you described? Was she
20:47seeing a doctor or psychologist?
20:48>> She refused to.
20:49>> Refused to she on any meds? She refused
20:51to be on any meds.
20:53>> So, she thought that she didn't need any
20:55help
20:55>> during the duration that you knew her.
20:57She never she never went to a doctor
20:58that you know for her
21:01>> we tried to get her there but she just
21:03did not like what the doctors had to say
21:06and so she'd be like I'm not going there
21:08anymore. club. Um,
21:13it was,
21:15you know, every day my kids saw a woman
21:19beating on their bed and I just said, "I
21:21want that life for them."
21:22>> Yeah. Oh, I know what I didn't ask you.
21:24And when this occurred when when you
21:26choked her
21:27>> Uhhuh.
21:27>> and she passed away.
21:28>> Yeah.
21:29>> What room of the house were you in?
21:31>> What room of the house?
21:32>> Yeah. Where were you in the house when
21:33it happened?
21:33>> Uh, living room.
21:34>> The living room.
21:35>> Yeah. Okay.
21:38And you said that she was coming at your
21:40daughter Bella, correct? And she had a
21:43What did she have?
21:44>> She had a butcher knife.
21:46>> Butcher knife was So you're saying was
21:48it like raised up like she
21:49>> No, dude. She was coming at her. You
21:51don't understand. When she gets into
21:53those modes, I've seen her mom get in
21:56front of her and she smacked her mom
21:58like it was nothing.
21:59>> Mhm.
22:00>> Like she had schizophrenia, bipolar, and
22:04>> undiagnosed, right? That's what you
22:06think she had or was it diagnosed?
22:07>> It was diagnosed. Diagnosed. She had
22:09definitely she was uh
22:11>> during her childhood she was seeing
22:13nothing but psy psychiatric doctors and
22:16um especially in her teenage years. Um
22:20cuz she was a wild child. Um her parents
22:23would let her stay out till whenever she
22:26would come home at 6:00 in the morning.
22:28She told me she did 30 hits of acid in
22:31the course of two months,
22:34which is insane. It's like
22:37Okay. Was Do you remember the time of
22:39day it was or was it at night
22:40>> when it happened?
22:41>> It was uh midday.
22:42>> Midday. Um
22:46when you said you intervened.
22:48>> Mhm.
22:49>> Were you injured at all during that
22:51episode?
22:52>> Yeah, that's what that's from.
22:53>> That So the scar on your right forearm
22:56that you're showing me about mid
22:57forearm. Mhm.
22:58>> That was the from the incident
23:00>> January 2018.
23:03>> Mhm.
23:05>> From Jamie when you intervened, you got
23:07cut with a knife and then you
23:09>> Well, this was a this was before the
23:11intervention. She had already beat my
23:12beat me up. I was already cut up and
23:14everything was
23:17>> on the the night you killed her.
23:18>> Mhm.
23:20>> Do you did you get injured that night?
23:22>> Yes. So when you intervened between
23:25>> her coming at your daughter with the
23:27knife, you sustained that injury.
23:29>> Mhm.
23:29>> Okay. In the living room of the home in
23:31Newport.
23:32>> Yes.
23:32>> Okay.
23:33>> All right. Um,
23:36so you leave Pasco County. Where do you
23:40go to with the kids?
23:41>> Ohio.
23:42>> You go back to Ohio.
23:43>> Yes.
23:43>> And you stay with who?
23:44>> I stay with myself.
23:46>> Stay with yourself.
23:47>> Yeah. I had some money. I threw down a
23:49place.
23:51Sorry, I'm just readjusting myself.
23:53>> You're fine.
23:53>> Um
23:55>> I know those aren't the most comfortable
23:56comfortable things.
23:57>> They're fine. Um
24:01>> I buy a place in AIA.
24:03Um I tried to make it work. I even got a
24:06job and everything, but people just
24:08weren't babysitting my kids. Babysitting
24:11was hard to come by.
24:12>> Mhm.
24:14And of course during that time period I
24:17was afraid to get on welfare because
24:18it's like they're going to be looking
24:20for
24:21>> mom
24:21>> mom. They're going to be like where the
24:23is mom
24:27and then
24:29so I last there for like a couple of
24:31months
24:35and then I can't make it. Um my parents
24:38can't help me cuz my my brother has
24:41cancer at this point. He beat it though.
24:44>> Okay, that's good.
24:45>> Yeah. Um,
24:48so I have to move to Texas to where all
24:50my other family is at. Um, so I did that
24:54for like
24:57half a year, I believe.
24:58>> Who did you stay with in Texas?
25:00>> I stayed with my granny for the most
25:02part. Um, and then me and her got into
25:05it.
25:05>> What's her name?
25:06>> Oh,
25:08Deborah Gray.
25:09>> Deborah Gray. Okay. She's still a
25:11living?
25:11>> Yeah, she's a living. Okay.
25:13>> Um,
25:15then she kicked me out cuz she couldn't
25:17handle the kids. Um, but I was working a
25:20good job. I was working the oil field
25:21for a while there. Um,
25:26and then
25:28I get another place
25:32and
25:33I'm working and everything. Um, I'm
25:36still trying to shake off
25:39Jaime's family for the most part and
25:42it's just
25:42>> Are they pestering you? Like where is
25:43she? We haven't seen her.
25:45>> No, it's not even that.
25:46>> She's still You're still You're still
25:47doing the texting like you're her. Did
25:50you have did she have her own phone and
25:51you had your own phone or did you guys
25:52only have one phone that you shared?
25:53>> Uh, we only had one phone.
25:55>> Okay. Cuz I was thinking to myself like
25:56you had to keep paying the bill to
25:58complain like you were hurt. Okay. So
25:59you shared a phone and you just
26:00pretended to be her. Okay.
26:02>> Yeah.
26:03>> Yeah. Well, I wouldn't really call it
26:04sharing a phone. It was mostly hers. But
26:06yeah, that's how that happened.
26:08>> Okay.
26:08>> Uh,
26:09>> so Granny says, "You need to go."
26:11>> Yeah. I get my own place. And then I had
26:14my own place for like another
26:183 months. So, we're getting towards the
26:20end of the year. And, um, unfortunately
26:24now I'm seeing something has to be done
26:26because I don't want to get caught.
26:29And
26:30I basically go down to Florida. I do
26:34that. Um,
26:35>> okay. Well, let's let's back up cuz I
26:36want Yeah.
26:37>> I need to be We need to be specific as
26:39possible. You're doing Oh, you're doing
26:40awesome. Okay.
26:41>> At what point in time, what month they
26:44was it like a spur of the moment thing.
26:45I'm going to Florida or were you like
26:47devising a plan like I need to go to
26:48Florida?
26:50>> It was more of a spur on the- moment
26:52thing like
26:53>> Okay. So, what day of I'm assuming it's
26:57December, right? It it actually worked
26:59like this cuz I was going to lose my
27:00place too cuz I couldn't hold my job cuz
27:03I was running into the whole babysitting
27:05>> childare again.
27:07>> Um and so I think I just got into a mode
27:09of panic
27:11>> um to be honest with you cuz that was
27:13the first real time that I didn't know
27:16how I was going to keep together and
27:18everything.
27:18>> Right. So what at that at that point in
27:20time what kind of
27:22>> and also on top of it I had told her
27:25that we were coming down there to
27:26vacation to like kind of hold her off
27:29and everything and now that's
27:31>> and you say her you say mean Laura.
27:33>> Yes.
27:33>> So you call did you speak to her or was
27:35it a text message?
27:36>> Text message.
27:37>> So through text message you tell Laura
27:39in Florida hey
27:40>> did you say did you imply that Jamie was
27:42coming or did you say me and the kids?
27:44>> I imply that Jamie was coming.
27:45>> Okay. So she I'm sure she was excited
27:47right?
27:48>> Yes. Okay.
27:49>> Um,
27:49>> and when was that about? Do you remember
27:51the
27:52>> the date that you
27:54>> initiated the contact and saying you
27:55were coming to Florida?
27:56>> I want to say August.
27:58>> Oh, way back in August.
27:59>> Yeah.
27:59>> Okay.
28:00>> Cuz now granted, I had no intention of
28:02going down there,
28:03>> right?
28:03>> I was just trying to hold her off and
28:05then I was going to be like, we're busy
28:07with work, this and that.
28:09>> And unfortunately, I lost my place by
28:11the time that time period came up. And
28:14um
28:17I don't know. I just I was afraid I was
28:21going to get caught. You know, I was
28:23coming up on a year that she was dead
28:25and everything.
28:27Um
28:29I just wanted to This is going to sound
28:32[ __ ] but
28:37at the end of the day, I just wanted to
28:38make sure my kids were okay, you know?
28:41So, were you worried that they were
28:42going to try to take them from you?
28:43>> I was worried that they were going to
28:44try to take them from me. I was worried
28:46that
28:49>> honestly,
28:51no offense to them, they were great
28:52people and I did care about them and
28:55love them greatly. I did. I actually got
28:57along with her more than my own mother,
29:00>> right?
29:00>> Which is sad, you know? I didn't want to
29:02do this.
29:03>> I didn't want to do any of this,
29:05but they just don't know how to raise
29:08kids, man. like find out.
29:10>> Okay. Well, let me ask you this. So, you
29:12initiate conversation with Laura
29:16>> August. When do you leave Texas and
29:20drive to Florida? What date?
29:25>> I can tell you it's in the beginning of
29:27December. As far as the exact datage, I
29:30would have to go through my phone to be
29:32able to tell you that.
29:33>> Okay. Like in relation to Christmas, how
29:35many weeks prior to Christmas do you
29:37think you got to It was definitely like
29:43beginning of December.
29:44>> Beginning of December, you drive from
29:46Texas to Florida. What are you driving?
29:49>> Uh,
29:52her old car that I had.
29:55>> Jamie's old car.
29:56>> Yes. The uh
29:57>> Is it a Hyundai?
29:58>> Yes.
29:59>> You remember what color?
30:00>> Silver.
30:00>> Silver Hyundai Elantre.
30:02>> Yes.
30:02>> And what does that Texas tags? Florida
30:04tags?
30:04>> Florida tags.
30:06>> Okay.
30:06>> Where's that car at now? Uh, it's
30:08actually parked at the Meadows.
30:10>> It is.
30:11>> Yes.
30:11>> Okay. Is it by the clubhouse?
30:13>> Yes.
30:13>> Okay. Yeah.
30:14>> So, it's a silver Hyundai Elantre
30:16four-door. Do you remember the year?
30:18>> 2010.
30:19>> 2010. Silver Hyundai Elantre with
30:20Florida tags prepped at the clubhouse.
30:22>> Mhm.
30:22>> Okay. So, you're not sure the exact
30:25date?
30:27>> Oh, in December.
30:28>> Yeah.
30:29>> Beginning to mid December.
30:30>> Def. No, it was beginning
30:32>> in December. You pack up the kids.
30:34>> Mhm.
30:34>> Pack up. I'm assuming the stuff you
30:36you're taking with you cuz you're
30:37leaving everything else behind, right?
30:39>> You drive to Florida.
30:40>> Mhm.
30:40>> Does she know you're coming or you just
30:42kind of show up?
30:42>> No, she knows I'm coming.
30:43>> She knows you're coming.
30:44>> However, she thinks that Jamie is
30:46staying behind due to work issues and
30:49everything.
30:50>> Okay. Okay. So, you arrive.
30:52>> Mhm.
30:53>> How's it go?
30:56>> It goes great at first. Um,
31:00you know, I keep
31:03I kept putting off killing them. If I,
31:05you know, if I'm going to talk about
31:06this moment, you know, we won't talk
31:08about it. I put off killing them. And
31:13I tried to look for
31:16every alternative not to do it. And of
31:18course, you know, I didn't have to do
31:19it. There was no reason for me to do all
31:23this. but
31:28>> felt bad. You know, I kept putting it
31:29off. You know, they were enjoying time
31:31with their grandkids. And
31:33>> at what at what point in time
31:36did you decide I have to kill them?
31:39>> Was it when you were driving there?
31:41>> No. I fought with it literally up until
31:45I did it.
31:46>> Okay. So, when was your first thought of
31:49I I need to kill them?
31:52Oh, like it was it was definitely on my
31:56way there.
31:56>> While you're driving there, you're
31:58thinking to myself, I need to kill them.
31:59>> Yeah. Like if I'm going to
32:02survive and raise these kids and not get
32:05caught. Um and then I get there
32:07>> because they pose a threat to what you
32:10believe was a threat to your custody of
32:13your children.
32:14>> Well, not even a custody like
32:17me getting caught. Um, and I didn't want
32:20them raising my kids. You know, like I
32:22said, they don't know how to raise kids.
32:24And I hate to say that, but they're very
32:27great people.
32:29The kids that they raised did not come
32:31out good at all. Jamie was prime
32:33example.
32:35>> You know,
32:36Nick,
32:38he was just, he, you know, he wasn't
32:40even a person. He was just there, you
32:42know, just living. He just sat there,
32:44played video games.
32:45>> Yeah.
32:45>> Went to work.
32:46>> Okay. So So you
32:48>> Sorry. Sorry. I know I keep getting off
32:50track.
32:50>> You're you're you're doing great, man.
32:53>> It's hard for me.
32:54>> You're doing great. You're doing great.
32:56I just
32:57>> while we're in the steps, I don't I'm
32:59trying to get stuff. I don't want to
33:00forget things. And I kind of want to try
33:02to as sequential order as we can so
33:04we're not jumping around. You know what
33:06I mean?
33:06>> If I'm being honest with you, we we've
33:07been doing
33:08>> awesome on the order. Like as far as
33:10time and everything, as far as like
33:12chronological order, we've been doing
33:14very good.
33:15>> Okay. So, you get to Florida. Do you
33:18keep your car at the clubhouse all the
33:20time?
33:21>> No, it was parked in the their uh
33:24driveway.
33:25>> It parked in their driveway a couple
33:26times. Okay. So, you get there. Where
33:29are you sleeping?
33:30>> I'm sleeping in that first room on the
33:33right.
33:33>> First room on the right.
33:34>> I know you've been in the house. Yes, I
33:35have. The first room on the right.
33:36>> First room on the right. Okay. Where are
33:38the kids sleeping? Are they sleeping on
33:39the couches?
33:40>> No, they were sleeping in there with me.
33:42>> Sleeping in the bed with you. Mhm.
33:43>> Okay. So
33:48go from there. You get there and you
33:49said everything was going great at
33:50first, right?
33:51>> Yeah. You know, um, by the way, also
33:56what made things easier to not be able
33:58to talk on the phone with them. Um, you
34:00know, for Jamie not to be able to talk
34:02on the phone with them. There was a debt
34:04collector from the old house cuz, you
34:06know, the old house got trashed. Um, I
34:09kind of trashed it to like make them not
34:12really like think that there was a dead
34:14body there, you know,
34:16>> kind of throw them off.
34:17>> Yeah. I was trying to be
34:20intelligent, even though it was the most
34:22unintelligent thing you can do.
34:23>> Well, while we're talking about that,
34:25did you when you put her in the grave,
34:28you cover it, did you do anything to
34:29like disguise the top of the grave, like
34:31put leaves over it or anything? cuz I've
34:34seen, you know, you you look at the
34:36backyard and you don't want to see this
34:37fresh pile of dirt.
34:38>> Yeah. No, I put something over it. It
34:39was um we had a bunch of like these
34:42wooden
34:43Oh, god damn it. What are they [ __ ]
34:45called? Not wooden planks, but like
34:48basically there was a bunch of that
34:49could have been used for construction in
34:51our backyard that I like put over
34:53>> just laid it over the top of it. What
34:54did you do with the excess dirt? Just
34:56spread it around the yard or
34:57>> Oh, I just put it all in the grave. It
34:59all fit in there and I just like
35:01smoothed it out and then put stuff over
35:03it.
35:03>> Okay. Okay. All right. So, fast forward.
35:06We're back. We're back to We're Tarpon
35:07Springs. Your kids are staying in the
35:09bedroom with you going You go down the
35:11hall, first door on the right. Yeah.
35:12>> Correct.
35:12>> Yeah.
35:13>> Okay. So,
35:14>> I'm I'm there for probably a good
35:18two weeks before I kill him, though. Um,
35:25unfortunately I almost got out of it too
35:28cuz you know what the step you know I
35:29acted like this debt collector had like
35:31a
35:33undercover agent that you can buy or
35:35whatever it's called. I forget what it's
35:36called. Um,
35:40but basically I made it seem like that
35:43this debt collector knew where Jamie was
35:45at if she were to enter Florida. So then
35:48at the end they were like, "Well, we can
35:50just come to Texas with you and visit
35:52her." And then on that day, you know.
35:55>> So is that when you decided I have to
35:57kill them because they're getting too
35:58inquisitive? Is that
36:00>> No, they weren't even inquisitive, man.
36:02They were always trusting of me. They um
36:04>> And do you remember what what the date
36:06was?
36:11>> December 15th
36:14and December 16th. December 15th and
36:17December 16th is when you killed them.
36:19>> Yes.
36:19>> Okay. Do you remember? Okay.
36:20>> The parents uh Go ahead. No,
36:23>> I don't want to stop you. Go ahead.
36:24>> Um
36:25>> said the parents
36:26>> the parents uh passed away first. Um
36:30and then I dragged their bodies into
36:33their uh their room. Um cleaned it up,
36:37waited for Nick to get home.
36:39Um spent one last night with Nick. And
36:42then when he went to bed, I uh killed
36:46him too.
36:47>> Okay.
36:48>> Basically,
36:49he tried to make it to where they didn't
36:51see it coming in. They they didn't feel
36:54any pain.
36:55>> Okay.
36:55>> That was my
36:57>> Okay. Concern.
36:58>> You're saying the 15th going into the
37:0016th, correct? So, it's late at night.
37:03>> Mhm. Well, they died um at like 1:00 and
37:072:00 in the afternoon.
37:08>> Okay.
37:09>> Um and then, like I said, I take their
37:11bodies. I clean up the mess. Nick comes
37:13home around 5 or 6. We hang out and
37:16everything. Nighttime comes, he goes to
37:19sleep, and then I get him.
37:20>> Okay, let me I just want to get it. Like
37:23I said, I I just need details. Okay, so
37:27one or two in the afternoon, you're
37:29there with the kids. Okay. Where's
37:33>> Where's Rich and where's Laura?
37:36>> Um All right. So,
37:38>> like who who do you go up to first and
37:40then second? And
37:41>> Laura goes to the store, Nick's at work,
37:45and that's the perfect time to get rich.
37:48Richard. Um,
37:51so he's got his back to me.
37:53>> Where where's he at?
37:54>> Uh, he's in the uh
37:58you enter the house, you go to the left,
38:00that dining room type area.
38:02>> Correct.
38:03>> That was blocked off by the couch and
38:04everything.
38:05>> Yes. um
38:06>> where you had the kids toy set up.
38:07>> Yeah.
38:07>> In there. Okay.
38:09>> Um
38:11that's where he passed away.
38:13>> Okay. And you said you didn't want him
38:15to see it coming.
38:16>> Yes.
38:17>> What What did you hit him with?
38:19>> A hammer.
38:19>> A hammer.
38:20>> Yes.
38:21>> Okay.
38:22>> And I basically killed him with it.
38:24>> Okay. Um so I'm assum where's the first
38:29place you struggled with the hammer?
38:30>> In the back of the head.
38:31>> Back of the head. Like right in the
38:32middle of the back of the head. You just
38:34came up behind him and
38:35>> Yeah.
38:35>> hit him. Does he fall?
38:36>> Yes, he falls.
38:37>> Just falls to his knees or
38:39>> No, he he's unconscious. And then
38:41>> one shot he's out.
38:43>> Well, unconscious. Yeah.
38:44>> Okay.
38:45>> And then I whack him again a couple of
38:48times on the head to give him a quick
38:50death.
38:52>> Um,
38:52>> you remember where on the head?
38:55>> No, cuz if I'm being honest with you,
38:57I'm not trying I wasn't trying to commit
38:59the the act in the first place. So, not
39:01really trying to look. Um, I know I
39:05definitely got him right here.
39:07>> Mhm.
39:08>> But all I really did was bash him a
39:12couple times and then walk away.
39:13>> Okay.
39:14>> Um, and then he passed away.
39:16>> Did you hear him still breathing or
39:19>> what? When when I did, I would go over
39:21there and whack him just to try and get
39:23him to be done cuz I didn't want him to
39:25suffer anymore. So after you hit him the
39:27first couple times, you walk away.
39:29>> And I I just don't want to put words in
39:31your mouth. You hear him. So you go back
39:32and you hit him a couple more times.
39:34>> Yes.
39:34>> Okay. And how many times did you have to
39:36keep going back?
39:37>> That was the only one time that I had to
39:39go back.
39:40>> Okay. So if you had to guesstimate how
39:43many times you struck him with a hammer,
39:44what would you think?
39:47>> I would say five to seven times.
39:49>> Five to seven times. And it's right in
39:51the area by where your kids toys were
39:53at.
39:54>> Yeah. Okay.
39:56>> Um, where are Bella and Oliver at when
39:59this is happening?
40:00>> They're in the room.
40:01>> They're in the the bedroom you were
40:03staring at with the door closed.
40:04>> Yes. Yes.
40:05>> Okay. Did they come out?
40:07>> No. No, they can't open doors or
40:09anything like that.
40:10>> They can't open doors. Okay.
40:11>> No, I had the room completely baby proof
40:13for them. So, they were they were safe.
40:16They they never saw anything of that
40:19sort. I always kept them away from that
40:21cuz And you said that was the 15th into
40:24the 16th, right?
40:25>> Yes. So 15th at 1 to two, Rich, right?
40:31>> I would say yes.
40:33>> Okay. Laura comes home from Okay. So
40:36Rich goes down. You know for a fact
40:38you've killed him.
40:39>> Yes.
40:39>> What do you do next? I know you said you
40:42drug him, but how do you drag him? He's
40:44a big big guy.
40:45>> Oh yeah, he definitely was. I had to use
40:46that carpet. However, I
40:48>> Where was that carpet located?
40:50>> It was right underneath him when it
40:51happened.
40:51>> Oh, it was. Yeah. Okay.
40:53>> Um, however, I waited until the mom got
40:56home to move.
40:57>> So, you left in there on the rug until
40:59mom comes home.
41:00>> Yeah.
41:00>> Now, when she comes home, does she come
41:03in through the front door? This that
41:04sliding door.
41:05>> She comes in through the front door.
41:07>> They never came in through the sliding
41:09door.
41:09>> I don't know if that's important or not.
41:11Um, information for you, but
41:14>> So, where are you at when she comes in
41:15the front door? Oh, I welcome her and
41:17everything and then she's walking
41:19towards the kitchen and then I get her
41:21before she sees anything coming.
41:23>> So, she never saw her husband laying
41:24there.
41:25>> Mhm.
41:25>> Okay. So, was she carrying groceries?
41:29>> She was carrying coffee.
41:30>> Carrying coffee.
41:31>> Yeah. Which was sad.
41:32>> Okay. So, she's carrying coffee. You
41:35greet her at the door.
41:36>> Yeah. And then she starts walking
41:37towards
41:37>> starts walking towards the kitchen.
41:39Still doesn't notice her husband.
41:40>> Okay.
41:41>> And then I basically take her out before
41:44she can notice anything. Okay. Where do
41:46you you hit her?
41:47>> Same place.
41:48>> Back of the head.
41:49>> Yes.
41:49>> Okay. She drops immediately.
41:51>> Mhm.
41:52>> Okay.
41:53>> And then
41:53>> so she's in the same room as her
41:55husband.
41:55>> No. No. She's in a different room where
41:58>> she is uh in the living room walking
42:00towards the kitchen.
42:01>> He's in the dining room.
42:03>> Okay.
42:03>> To towards the left and everything. Uh
42:07like I said, I don't know how the not
42:08see him when
42:10>> So she basically walked pretty much
42:12right by him from what you're saying.
42:13>> No, she did not walk by him. No,
42:15>> like I said, I don't know. Do you
42:17remember the layout of the house?
42:19>> Um,
42:20>> if you want, you can draw. I'll give you
42:22another thing and you can draw.
42:24>> Yeah, cuz I'm just trying to make it.
42:25>> Yeah, draw it bigger scale. I know you
42:27said your drawing is not good. I don't
42:28care.
42:29>> Okay.
42:30>> We're not here for our class. So,
42:32>> yeah.
42:36>> All right. So, front door.
42:41>> You want just right underneath there?
42:42Just write front door. That way when I
42:43look at it later on though what you're
42:50And then this is where he would be at
42:53right just right underneath that bridge
42:55for me.
42:59Here's of course couch.
43:08And then she walks.
43:15She's walking towards there. I stopp her
43:18right here.
43:20>> Okay. So, you hit her in the back of the
43:22head. She drops.
43:24>> Yeah.
43:25>> How many times more times do you hit
43:27her? Uh, I would I would definitely say
43:29I hit her a good four to five times
43:32because after dealing with Rich, you
43:35know, I saw that, you know,
43:36>> you want to make sure
43:38>> Yeah, I want to make sure that you're
43:40dead and not suffering cuz that, you
43:42know, I know it's up, but that was the
43:44last thing I wanted was for them to
43:46suffer.
43:46>> You said they were good people.
43:47>> Yeah.
43:48>> They didn't You said they didn't deserve
43:49what they got, right? Where did you get
43:51the hammer from?
43:52>> No.
43:53>> Was it in their shed? Uh, it was in one
43:56of the drawers like um
43:58>> like a junk drawer in the kitchen.
43:59>> Yeah.
44:00>> Okay. Okay. So, she's on the ground.
44:03They're they're both deceased.
44:05>> Mhm.
44:05>> What time do you think it was that you
44:07get her?
44:08>> She was like literally in the 2 p.m.
44:10range.
44:11>> Okay. Approximately an hour later you
44:12get her.
44:13>> Yeah.
44:13>> Okay. So, they're both down.
44:16>> Drag both of them.
44:17>> Which one do you drag first?
44:19>> Definitely Rich.
44:20>> Rich. He's on the area rug.
44:22>> Yeah.
44:22>> So, you tell me. You got to tell me how
44:24you did it cuz he's a pretty big dude
44:26and I'm though I'm not taking this
44:28offense. You're not near as big as he
44:30is.
44:30>> Oh yeah, that's
44:31>> that's got to You had to like busted
44:33your ass to get him back there.
44:34>> God, did I ever
44:35>> Yeah. How long did it take you to get
44:37him from there down the hall and into
44:39the room,
44:39>> dude? Honestly, only 5 minutes.
44:41>> Probably your adrenaline's through the
44:43roof, right? I mean, you got to be like,
44:45>> do you know when Nick's coming home or
44:46is it like I got to get going? Nick
44:48could come home. I got to get them out
44:49of the way.
44:50>> At that point, I didn't know when Nick
44:51was going come coming home. So, you're
44:53right. Definitely adrenaline played a
44:55big part into it, I think, moving him.
44:57But, yeah, I got him out of there in
44:59like five minutes and then I moved her
45:02in there and then I uh cleaned up all
45:04the blood with the mop and everything
45:07and he didn't notice anything when he
45:09got home. I finally did get a hold of
45:10him.
45:11>> Where was And how did you get Laura into
45:13the bathroom?
45:14>> There was another rug uh that was close
45:16to her that I just I threw a towel on
45:19her.
45:22Sorry, I'm fine.
45:24>> And then I put her on the rug and then I
45:26dragged the rug.
45:27>> Okay. But you brought Rich first.
45:29>> Yes.
45:29>> How did you get her past Rich?
45:32>> Cuz he was, if from my recollection,
45:35he's laying on his back.
45:37>> Yeah.
45:38>> With the rug covering him in the
45:40doorway. You have to pass the doorway to
45:42get into the bathroom.
45:43>> You know, I'm sorry. I think I brought
45:44her in first.
45:45>> Okay. That's why that's why I'm asking
45:47these questions because
45:49>> you could have done it, but I want to
45:50make sure we're right on the order
45:52because for you to get her over the top
45:54of him would have been a pretty good
45:55feat.
45:56>> Yeah. So, that would not
45:57>> Now that you think about it, you're
45:58positive you drug her back first.
46:00>> Yes. She got drug back first. I
46:02apologize.
46:02>> Okay. So, you get both of them on their
46:05area rugs
46:07>> into the room. Close the door.
46:10>> You just chill with the kids until Nick
46:12comes home.
46:13>> Yeah.
46:14>> Yeah.
46:14>> Okay. What time?
46:15>> Of course, everything. Uh,
46:17>> it's like 6:00 or 7 when he gets home.
46:20>> Was he at work?
46:21>> Yeah, he was at work.
46:22>> What was What does he do for work? I
46:23never found out what he did for work.
46:25>> I think it was HVAC or something.
46:27>> Hback, like air conditioning stuff.
46:28>> Yeah.
46:28>> Okay. So, he gets home.
46:30>> Can we take a pause real quick?
46:32>> Sure.
46:32>> I need to use the bathroom.
46:34>> Definitely. Definitely. Let me let me
46:36get one of the uh detectives to come
46:38take you to the restroom.
46:55All right. Better.
46:58>> All right.
47:00All right. So,
47:03and I'm just going to clarify this
47:05because
47:06>> Yeah.
47:07>> Now, when you say Rich is over here in
47:08the dining room area, are we talking
47:10about like like towards the sliding
47:13door.
47:13>> I'm going to Right. The sliding door is
47:14here. There's the couch cuz I saw a lot
47:17of blood stains on the couch.
47:18>> Couch wasn't moved at that point.
47:20>> I understand that. But is the blood
47:23staining that's on the couch from you
47:26striking him? Does he fall against the
47:28couch? Cuz I on the couch.
47:29>> That's from uh That's from Nick.
47:31>> That's from Nick.
47:32>> Yes.
47:32>> Okay.
47:33>> Yes.
47:33>> So dad falls there. Nothing gets on
47:35that. You mop up the floor.
47:37>> Yeah. The couch was right here at that
47:38point. It's not moved over there or
47:40anything. I move it over there during
47:43the process that I stay there.
47:45>> Okay.
47:46>> Nick was asleep on the couch when I
47:47killed him. So that's why that's where
47:49all the blood stains on the couch come
47:50from.
47:51>> Okay.
47:52>> And then I moved the couch to block off
47:54that uh that room so the kids don't run
47:57in there.
47:59>> All right. Now, now we're cooking cuz
48:01that I was completely I when I was in
48:04the house, I kept saying to myself, why
48:07does that couch block the doorway? Why
48:08would they, you know, like I'm not an
48:10interior designer, but you're blocking
48:13an access way to just doesn't seem okay.
48:18>> Yeah. So,
48:18>> that was main that was all for the kids.
48:20So, they went running in there and
48:21everything.
48:22>> Gotcha. Okay.
48:22>> Cuz even though it was like clean in
48:25there and everything, like I don't know.
48:27I'm still, you know, I didn't want them
48:29anywhere near.
48:30>> Understandable. I mean, you don't want
48:32your kids to see that kind of thing.
48:33Okay. So, let's let's backpedal a little
48:35bit. So,
48:38just to clarify, they're both down.
48:41You've killed both of them. We drag
48:43Lara.
48:44>> Yes.
48:45>> Into the bathroom.
48:46>> Yes.
48:47>> Rich dragged into the bedroom.
48:50>> We closed the door. Where are the dogs?
48:53>> I put the dogs in there. The dog I
48:56>> Were they still alive?
48:57>> Yes. Dogs don't die until like literally
49:00the last minute and
49:02>> like before you leave.
49:03>> Yeah.
49:03>> Okay. So, you just close the dogs in
49:05there with the two
49:07>> that you just killed.
49:08>> Mhm.
49:09>> Okay.
49:10>> You're playing with the kids until 5 or
49:126 when Nick comes home.
49:13>> Yeah.
49:14>> Okay. You said you wanted to spend one
49:16last night with Nick.
49:19>> Yeah.
49:19>> But you I just
49:20>> You said you know you have to kill him
49:22because obviously you killed his
49:23parents.
49:24>> Yes. Yes.
49:24>> Okay. So,
49:28he comes home. Tell me what happens when
49:29he comes home.
49:31>> He comes home. He brings some weed and
49:34everything. Um, he's got edibles and all
49:37that stuff. Um,
49:39you know, I start
49:41giving him money and order us a pizza.
49:44Um, I get us more weed. Um,
49:49that type of stuff.
49:50>> How did you get him more weed?
49:52>> Huh?
49:52>> How did you get more weed?
49:53>> Oh, we went to the Well, he went to the
49:55dealer to get some more and everything.
49:57>> Did you do it with him?
49:58>> No, I say no.
49:59>> Okay.
49:59>> Um,
50:00>> and does he he has a car, right?
50:02minivan.
50:02>> Yeah.
50:03>> Where's his minivan?
50:04>> Minivan's parked in that driveway.
50:06That's his minivan.
50:07>> That the blue one that's there is his
50:08minivan.
50:09>> Yes.
50:10>> Cuz I talked to a bunch of people and
50:11they kept saying, "No, that's not his
50:12minivan. He drives a dark minivan. Dark
50:14colored minivan." They kept saying it's
50:15dark colored minivan. We couldn't find
50:16this dark color minivan.
50:18>> Old people are idiots sometimes, be
50:19honest with you. I think they know there
50:21something. Yeah.
50:22>> Okay. So, that minivan that's still at
50:23the house is Nick's. Okay. I'm sorry. I
50:25know I interrupted you. Nick comes home.
50:27You guys are smoking weed, eating edible
50:29marijuana together. just yeah, you know,
50:31you guys been friends for a long time.
50:32You want to spend one last night with
50:34him. So, go ahead.
50:37>> I mean, yeah, there's nothing much more
50:39to it.
50:39>> What time is So, I'm assuming you guys
50:41are here watching TV together and he
50:42falls asleep at some point. You're kind
50:44of waiting for him to fall asleep.
50:45>> Yeah, essentially.
50:47>> I'm assuming, you know, I have to kill
50:48him tonight.
50:49>> Yeah.
50:50>> Right.
50:50>> Yeah. That was cool.
50:50>> So, you're watching TV,
50:52>> he falls asleep.
50:53>> Yeah. Um,
50:54>> where are you at? When he he falls
50:55asleep on that couch with all the blood
50:57stains, but it's at at that point in
50:58time. Here's how it happened. We're
51:00watching the Grinch and everything. He
51:03gets tired. Um, he goes to sleep. I put
51:07the kids in the room. I wait until I
51:10think he's asleep. I fall asleep myself
51:14and then I wake up at like
51:183:00 4:00 in the morning and then I grab
51:21the hammer. I tiptoe to him and then I
51:26I do what I did to them. You know, I
51:28don't like saying it, but I do what I
51:30did to them. I uh
51:32>> Same thing. Same hammer. Yeah.
51:34>> So, the same hammer you killed the same
51:35you use the same hair to call to kill
51:37all three of them.
51:38>> Yes.
51:38>> So, he's asleep.
51:40>> I I I know it's hard to say, but you
51:43we're almost there. You gotten through
51:44two.
51:44>> Oh, yeah. No,
51:46>> I know.
51:46>> So, you go up and Nick and then what
51:48happens?
51:48>> Um
51:50I crack him right here
51:51>> in the temple.
51:52>> Yeah. And then I just keep hitting um
51:56like seven to eight times.
51:57>> Is it any time does he wake up or
52:00>> he like jolted awake at first I think
52:03but his body was in too much shock to
52:06like really process what happened.
52:07>> Right. Like he never like opened his
52:09eyes or said anything or anything like
52:10that?
52:11>> No. None none of that ever happened. Um
52:15I made sure that they
52:18except with him unfortunately. I made
52:20sure that they didn't feel any pain.
52:24They they basically died
52:25instantaneously.
52:27>> Okay.
52:27>> Besides him.
52:28>> So you kill him on the couch.
52:30>> Okay. Then what do you do with his body?
52:34>> I take it into his room.
52:36>> Did you put him on anything or do you
52:37just dry?
52:38>> Um I just I covered up his head and
52:40everything. Granted, I did it in the
52:42dark and
52:44uh for some reason I like I knew that
52:48hit like I had him up the most out of
52:52out of everybody and I don't know how.
52:55Um
52:57>> and how did you know that just from the
52:59facial damage that you saw?
53:00>> I didn't see any facial damage. Uh
53:02>> oh. How you said you knew you him up the
53:05most. So I was assuming that you saw the
53:07damage
53:07>> cuz like blood like went everywhere and
53:09that was
53:10>> as you're hitting them blood's going
53:10everywhere.
53:11>> That was the first time that happened.
53:13So
53:14>> Okay.
53:14>> So when you hit the other two it wasn't
53:16>> Yeah. It wasn't a splatter array and it
53:19was
53:21>> and then I I have some towels underneath
53:24or a blanket or something. It was a
53:25blanket. It was a blanket I had.
53:27>> Is that the orange and black one?
53:30>> I think so. Um whichever one that he was
53:33on.
53:33>> Okay. everything. I take him and I drag
53:35him into his room and then I clean up
53:39the area and then my kids wake up and so
53:44you cleaned up the area. You mop it all.
53:46You move the couch from from the wall.
53:48>> Yeah.
53:48>> By the door
53:50>> over to
53:51>> by where you took Rich out.
53:53>> Yeah.
53:54>> Okay. Blocking that entryway.
53:56>> Mhm.
53:57>> Okay. So, you close the doors and you
54:00said yourself, "Your kids can't open the
54:01doors." My my biggest fear is if I'm you
54:04is holy all my kids opening the doors
54:07and seeing dead people.
54:08>> Yeah. Yeah. I know. That's why I made
54:10sure that they Yeah.
54:12>> Um
54:13>> trust me, my kids are my number one
54:14priority.
54:15>> I I believe you wholeheartedly for
54:18someone to do something of this extent
54:22to protect their kids. I'm not saying
54:24it's right. I know I know you know it's
54:27not right. Right. You know right from
54:28wrong, right? You know what you did was
54:30wrong.
54:32But
54:35at the time, I think maybe you thought
54:36you didn't have any other options,
54:37right?
54:38>> Exactly.
54:39>> You were out of pretty much out of gas,
54:41right? Out of out of options. Okay. So,
54:45that's the 15th and the 16th. Correct.
54:48Um,
54:49>> they pass away on the 15th and he passes
54:51away on the 16th.
54:54>> 16th. And then like in the middle of the
54:55night whenever you wake up, do you
54:56remember what time it was? I think you
54:58said
54:58>> it was 4:00 in the morning.
54:59>> 4:00 in the morning. Do you remember it
55:01being 4:00 in the morning? Did you just
55:03like see the cable box or
55:04>> Yeah, I looked at the time. I'm like,
55:06I'm a [ __ ] idiot
55:08and then I took care of that. Um
55:14>> Okay.
55:14>> Yeah, he I can give you time of death
55:18most of them.
55:18>> Yeah, you want to write You can write it
55:19right next to me as well.
55:21>> I know he's 100 p.m. You
55:24>> if you want you can write the date
55:25underneath it, too.
55:27So 12:15.
55:37>> Sorry. They were just they were
55:39important and I'm the only one who knows
55:42their time of death.
55:43>> No, that is it's like I said the
55:45sequence of events are very important
55:47and I
55:50I'm glad you know that. So
55:53>> yeah, I'm sure you're probably very
55:54surprised with my cooperation, too.
55:58>> I've been doing this a long time. And
56:01>> not really.
56:02>> You never know.
56:02>> Well, you live in the crazy state, too.
56:04>> The crazy state. You call Florida the
56:06crazy state.
56:07>> You know who else called it the crazy
56:08state? My mother-in-law.
56:09>> She's She's from Michigan.
56:11>> Oh, well, that's why.
56:12>> And she says all the time, "All the
56:14crazy stuff happens in Florida."
56:16>> I'm prime example, man.
56:17>> You're prime example. Okay. So, all
56:21right. So, they're put into the rooms.
56:24Doors are closed. Kids wake up the next
56:27day.
56:28>> Everything's fine and
56:28>> business is business as usual, right?
56:31And I'm assuming you don't let them go
56:32past the kitchen area.
56:33>> Of course not. No. Okay.
56:35>> The kitchen was blocked off, too.
56:37>> Okay. Now, I don't know if it's you or
56:42Nick, but somebody is a fan of the drink
56:44that I love. Bang. Energy drinks. Is
56:47that you? Yeah.
56:48>> Because they're everywhere. if you want.
56:50Um because I'm going to be in jail
56:52obviously in my house. I got like three
56:55cases of them.
56:57>> Yeah.
56:57>> Uh cotton and candy, the sour head, and
57:00more cotton candy.
57:01>> Yeah. Those your favorites?
57:02>> Yeah. So, if you want them, go ahead,
57:04man.
57:04>> No. Unfortunately, I can't do that. But
57:06where where were you buying those at?
57:07Were you buying them at the 7-Eleven on
57:08the corner?
57:09>> Yeah.
57:09>> You don't like every day?
57:11>> Yeah. And then I'm like, "Dude, you guys
57:13got the cases for sale?" Yeah.
57:14>> And he did. Man, those things work. Is
57:17that what you uh Oh, no. You got the
57:19red.
57:19>> They didn't have anything at the store.
57:20I stopped at the 7-Eleven on the way
57:22here.
57:23>> Yeah, dude. There's so
57:24>> I was like, "Uh, yeah, they didn't have
57:26it, so I had to settle for Red Bull, but
57:27I had to get something." Um, so
57:29basically, I'm sure they like knew every
57:31morning you came. Did you go there at
57:32the same time every day with the kids?
57:34>> No. No. Um, when I bought the case, that
57:38was like probably literally the day that
57:40this happened.
57:41>> Um,
57:43>> cuz I wasn't really trying to go out
57:44like that anymore,
57:46>> you I had to figure out what the I was
57:47going to do with three boxes.
57:48>> So, when you wake up that that next
57:50morning would be the 16th, you take the
57:53kids, you go to the 7-Eleven, you bought
57:54the case.
57:55>> Yeah.
57:55>> Okay. Um then you come back.
57:59>> Well, I wouldn't say I made the specific
58:01trip to do that. Um I did go grocery
58:04shopping at Walmart to get myself a
58:07couple things to like help be easier for
58:11me. Like I grabbed uh spray paint to
58:13like spray the walls and everything to
58:15get the blood off
58:16>> the Kryon.
58:17>> Yeah.
58:18>> Like which Walmart? The one in Tarpon
58:19Springs.
58:20>> Yeah.
58:20>> Or did you go to a different one?
58:22>> Harpon Springs.
58:23>> Do you remember what the date was?
58:25>> I would say the 16th.
58:26>> 16th. You went to the Walmart in Tarpon.
58:29>> Okay. Um let me just do you remember
58:33approximate time?
58:35>> Unfortunately, I do not.
58:36>> That's fine. Afternoon, evening,
58:38whatever. after was definitely where it
58:40>> and you had both kids.
58:41>> Yes.
58:42>> Is that the only thing you bought for
58:44the like cleaning up was the Kryon?
58:46>> Uh I bought um
58:47>> cuz I know fast forward just a little
58:50bit and I know you'll tell me because
58:51you were being completely cooperative. I
58:53know you went to the Home Depot in Port
58:54Richie and you bought the tarps and the
58:57rope.
58:57>> Oh yeah. Yeah.
58:58>> Yeah. And what were
59:00>> that? That that was um that was
59:02basically to put their bodies in, tie
59:05up, and you know, put in the backyard or
59:08the front yard
59:08>> where you were digging the trench.
59:10>> Yeah.
59:10>> Okay. Um what day did you start digging
59:12the trench?
59:15>> If you if they if you killed them on the
59:1615th and 16th, what day do you think it
59:18was you started digging the trench?
59:20>> I would say a week later.
59:21>> A week later.
59:22>> Yeah. Definitely say a week later. So,
59:24you're staying in the house with them
59:27deceased and with your kids from the
59:3015th and 16th until approximately a week
59:34later.
59:34>> Mhm.
59:34>> And I'm assuming it's got to start
59:36smelling by then.
59:38>> Well, yeah. I bought to help with the
59:39smell, too. Incense was always going on.
59:42I had those uh Fbreze things. Uh
59:46I had like car uh kids were no longer
59:49sleeping in their room. They were like
59:52sleeping out there
59:52>> on those little love seats.
59:54>> Yeah. Yeah. There was a there was
59:55another couch too that uh dark brown
59:58couch
59:59>> that uh they would sleep on too.
1:00:01>> Okay.
1:00:02>> Um
1:00:04but yeah, they couldn't get buried. I
1:00:06couldn't move rich.
1:00:08>> So you start digging the trench. You
1:00:11made a lot of progress on that trench.
1:00:13>> Yeah.
1:00:13>> I mean, how many hours do you think you
1:00:14worked on that? Cuz that's a lot of
1:00:16work.
1:00:17>> It only took me like two hours.
1:00:18>> Two hours to dig that. And that's the
1:00:20shovel.
1:00:21>> That was me being paranoid.
1:00:22>> That was you on adrenaline and bang and
1:00:24I got to get this done. I got to get
1:00:26these people buried and I got to get out
1:00:27of here in order.
1:00:27>> No, that was me going like these people
1:00:30are definitely going to get sketched out
1:00:32here pretty soon by me digging this
1:00:34hole.
1:00:35>> So I would go out and dig it little bits
1:00:37at a time.
1:00:38>> Oh, okay.
1:00:38>> Like I was doing yard work.
1:00:39>> Did you ever have contact with anybody
1:00:41like go by going like
1:00:43>> Yeah, I did. Um, I simply said that the
1:00:46bushes had been um
1:00:48all all dugged up over there and that
1:00:51they were going to start putting like
1:00:52trees or something that I didn't know.
1:00:55>> Okay. Um,
1:00:58and I know what what about property that
1:01:00was in the house. Um, we found pawns for
1:01:04you. Did you take a bunch? Did Nick have
1:01:06like an Xbox?
1:01:07>> Yes.
1:01:08>> And did you have a lot of games?
1:01:09>> Yes.
1:01:10>> Okay. And what did you do with the the
1:01:12Xbox? I switched it out for the PS4.
1:01:15>> Like switched it out?
1:01:16>> Yeah, you can. Um, so you can go to like
1:01:19GameStop and like exchange your system
1:01:22for another system.
1:01:23>> Oh, okay. Okay.
1:01:25>> So, you did that with GameStop. Which
1:01:27GameStop did you go to?
1:01:28>> That was up here. And um I actually had
1:01:31uh
1:01:31>> So, you brought the Xbox with you up
1:01:33here?
1:01:33>> Yes.
1:01:33>> Okay. What about all the games? Did you
1:01:35pawn Yes.
1:01:36>> a bunch of the games
1:01:37>> or sold them? I guess
1:01:38>> traded them. Yeah.
1:01:40>> And that was at the GameStop in Florida,
1:01:41though.
1:01:42>> Yes. Correct. What did you train them
1:01:43for?
1:01:44>> Mm- I'm sorry that was not the GameStop
1:01:47in Florida. Um I'm sorry I'm getting you
1:01:49all confused on this. So system and
1:01:51games get brought up,
1:01:53>> right?
1:01:54Um
1:01:56I don't go exchange it myself. My dude
1:01:58Thomas does. The one that owns the house
1:02:00and everything that I live with. Um,
1:02:03that's who did it because there was just
1:02:05one night where I was, you know, it has
1:02:08like all his information on there and I
1:02:10didn't want Thomas to uh
1:02:13>> It has all of Nick's information like
1:02:14his like his Microsoft account.
1:02:16>> Yeah.
1:02:16>> The reason I know is my son plays
1:02:18Fortnite and has an Xbox and I had to
1:02:19set it up for him. So,
1:02:21>> yeah,
1:02:21>> you didn't want it to be connected to
1:02:22you with his Microsoft account
1:02:25information.
1:02:25>> Yeah. So, it was like a sign to get rid
1:02:27of that. Um,
1:02:30>> but he had your new roommate had no
1:02:32idea, right? No, you had never told him.
1:02:34>> No.
1:02:34>> Obviously any of this.
1:02:35>> Do you mind if I ask you something?
1:02:37>> Sure.
1:02:37>> You know, since I'm being cooperative,
1:02:39I'm just interested.
1:02:41>> Where did I up with the car? Like, how
1:02:44did you guys catch up to me? Was it the
1:02:46car that got me?
1:02:49>> I mean, I know I left it behind a bunch.
1:02:51I'm just curious.
1:02:53>> There's a lot of things there. There was
1:02:55no real one like thing. There was a lot
1:02:59of things. I mean, you did you did
1:03:00things. I think you may have thought you
1:03:03were doing them carefully, but you
1:03:04didn't.
1:03:05>> Okay.
1:03:05>> You know, I'm not going to go into
1:03:06specifics.
1:03:07>> Don't give me specifics. There's no
1:03:09reason to.
1:03:09>> Yeah. I will just I will say this. There
1:03:12wasn't one thing. So, you can't beat
1:03:13yourself up over like, man, if I have
1:03:15just done that one thing, you did a lot.
1:03:17Okay.
1:03:18>> It was traceable.
1:03:20>> Okay.
1:03:20>> Okay. Um
1:03:24So, um, what what else do you take from
1:03:28the house?
1:03:30>> His coin collection.
1:03:32>> His coin collection.
1:03:33>> This is on top of the fridge.
1:03:34>> On top of the fridge where you live now.
1:03:36>> Yes.
1:03:37>> Okay. And what about IDs?
1:03:41>> Yes.
1:03:42>> Driver's licenses.
1:03:43>> Yeah. I took that. Um,
1:03:45>> from who?
1:03:46>> Rich and uh, Nick. I could not find
1:03:50Loris.
1:03:50>> You looked for it, but you couldn't find
1:03:52it. And what was the purpose of that?
1:03:54>> Um, honestly, I know this um this
1:03:56company called Live Ops where you can
1:03:58work at home, but you got to have a
1:04:00clean record. So, that's what I was
1:04:02going to use that for.
1:04:03>> You're going to use Dick's Nick's
1:04:04identity.
1:04:05>> Yeah.
1:04:06>> Okay.
1:04:06>> Yeah.
1:04:07>> What about Rich? Why did you take his?
1:04:10>> Just to not leave behind evidence. You
1:04:12know, wasn't really the smartest thing
1:04:14to do to be honest with you. I know
1:04:16you're trying to find a
1:04:18comprehendable reason as to why, but
1:04:20>> Right. Well, like I said, I I'm trying
1:04:22to understand your mindset, what's going
1:04:24through your head, why you would do
1:04:25things.
1:04:26>> And so the coin collection
1:04:28>> um
1:04:29>> was to get money obviously,
1:04:30>> right?
1:04:31>> So I can
1:04:32>> And there was like sheets of money too,
1:04:34right?
1:04:34>> Mhm.
1:04:35>> Yeah. You'll see the sheet of money in
1:04:37there.
1:04:38>> So there sheet of money, collectible
1:04:39coins,
1:04:40>> and the suitcase. The suitcase here. You
1:04:43want me to write it all down for you?
1:04:44>> Sure.
1:04:46Yeah. Right. You can write down
1:04:47everything you took from the house
1:04:49and where you can just write down what
1:04:51you took and where it is now.
1:05:07>> Oh, my my kids did go with my mom.
1:05:10>> Outstanding. That's good. I know in
1:05:12Florida we always try to reunite the
1:05:14kids with family members. We don't want
1:05:16them to go with child protective
1:05:17services if they don't need to.
1:05:25>> That's all I care about is their safety,
1:05:27man.
1:05:29All I can think of so far.
1:05:31>> Okay.
1:05:31>> It's also like 2:13 in the morning. So,
1:05:34if I if I think of something else.
1:05:36>> Yeah, definitely. If you think I'll keep
1:05:37the notepad right here. You think of
1:05:39something, you let me know. I'll slide
1:05:40it over to you. All right. Sound like a
1:05:42deal? All right. Actually, if you want
1:05:45here, I'll just
1:05:47I'll keep it right in front of you. I'll
1:05:48just keep asking questions.
1:05:50>> Okay.
1:05:51>> Um, but yeah, I think I got
1:05:54everything that I want to explain to
1:05:57>> explain for the most part.
1:05:58>> Okay.
1:05:59>> You mind if I ask you a couple more
1:06:01questions cuz I got a couple that
1:06:03everybody and I mean, everybody that's
1:06:05involved in this wants to know
1:06:08>> what is going on with the paint.
1:06:11>> Oh, you mean on the values? the paint
1:06:13that's poured all over them and it's
1:06:15slung all over the walls and there's egg
1:06:16on the walls. What was what happened
1:06:19there?
1:06:20>> All right, so let me take you into a
1:06:22little trip into my mind. I thought the
1:06:24paint would like not stop the
1:06:27decomposition, but like block out the
1:06:29smell.
1:06:30>> Okay,
1:06:30>> so
1:06:30>> that was one of the theories we had.
1:06:32>> Yes, block out the smell. You guys were
1:06:34correct.
1:06:34>> Okay. Um, as far as for the paint and
1:06:38egg on the wall and all that, mind you,
1:06:41I had poured that stuff on them be
1:06:44before I knew that I was not going to be
1:06:47putting them in a hole. So therefore,
1:06:50like with the house with my ex-wife, I
1:06:53was trying to trash the house to make it
1:06:57look not focusing on the fact that
1:07:00>> somebody died there.
1:07:01>> Yeah. Something else might have
1:07:02happened.
1:07:02>> That something awful Yeah.
1:07:03>> had happened there. Yeah.
1:07:05>> Okay. And
1:07:06>> but like I said, that was done time
1:07:08period before I realized that I could
1:07:10not get them in that hole.
1:07:12>> Okay. And all the chemicals. Did you
1:07:16pour chemicals on all of them or was it
1:07:18just Nick?
1:07:18>> Just Nick.
1:07:19>> Okay. Was there a reason just Nick?
1:07:21>> He was uh he was the most foul smelling
1:07:25one. So I was really trying to block out
1:07:27the
1:07:28>> And it looked like and you tell me if
1:07:29you you may not remember a gallon of
1:07:32bleach, pine saw.
1:07:33>> Yeah. All that like
1:07:34>> that stuff was that stuff that was in
1:07:36the house or was that stuff you had to
1:07:37go buy?
1:07:37>> No, that was stuff that was already
1:07:38>> just all household chemicals that you
1:07:40were had.
1:07:40>> Um
1:07:42>> what' you do with the hammer?
1:07:44>> Oh, you know what I kind of What's in
1:07:46the house for you guys? It's underneath
1:07:48the bed.
1:07:49>> It's in the house that you're in now.
1:07:50Underneath the bed.
1:07:51>> No, no, no, no. Not my house. It's
1:07:54underneath their their bed and their
1:07:56house.
1:07:58>> Is it underneath Rich's bed?
1:07:59>> Mhm.
1:08:00>> Underneath the mattress?
1:08:01>> Underneath Rich's bed? Just on the
1:08:03floor.
1:08:04>> Yeah.
1:08:04>> Okay.
1:08:06All right. Let me just
1:08:11I'm tired, too.
1:08:12>> Oh, yeah.
1:08:13>> So, let's see.
1:08:16>> I'm actually waking up a little bit.
1:08:18>> Getting a second wind.
1:08:19>> Yeah.
1:08:19>> Yeah. I'm on like my fourth.
1:08:23>> Um,
1:08:24>> yeah. I know you're saying thank you for
1:08:25being cooperative with you, but thank
1:08:26you for being cooperative with It's it's
1:08:28much appreciated because in cases like
1:08:30this, everybody has theories of what
1:08:34happened. You know, my theory is going
1:08:35to be one way and other detectives is
1:08:37going to be another way and crime scene
1:08:39technician that's there, they're going
1:08:40to have their theories. You know, and
1:08:44you know, when you get a firsthand
1:08:46account of the person that did it,
1:08:50you know for fact what happened. It's
1:08:52not a guess anymore. It's like, okay, we
1:08:54know exactly what happened. He told us
1:08:55firsthand. This is what happened.
1:08:58Um,
1:08:58>> and I always told myself if I got caught
1:09:01that wasn't going to try a lie or bullit
1:09:03or anything like that. That was just
1:09:05going somehow clean.
1:09:07>> So, what day do you leave the house?
1:09:12>> I want to say it's a couple days before
1:09:16Christmas cuz I literally got into town
1:09:20Christmas Eve.
1:09:21>> You got here Christmas Eve?
1:09:23>> Yes. So, I want to say probably like
1:09:26the day before Christmas Eve cuz I just
1:09:28drove that whole night.
1:09:29>> You didn't stop anywhere except for like
1:09:31gas probably.
1:09:32>> Yeah, except for gas and to change the
1:09:33diapers and stuff like that.
1:09:35>> Where do you remember where you stopped
1:09:36for gas? Did you pay cash? Credit card?
1:09:38>> I always paid cash.
1:09:39>> Paid cash? You didn't take any of their
1:09:41credit cards or checks?
1:09:44>> I don't think any of their credit cards.
1:09:46None of their checks though.
1:09:47>> Did you take cash out of their wallets?
1:09:49>> I took cash out of their wallets. Yeah,
1:09:50that was that was you. And um what about
1:09:54all the guns?
1:09:57>> Oh, did the officer Oh, I have uh one of
1:10:01their guns at the house
1:10:03>> that I told the officer about.
1:10:04>> Okay. There's one in the house that you
1:10:06rent now with your buddy. Okay. How many
1:10:08guns were in the house
1:10:11that you took?
1:10:13>> How many guns were in the house?
1:10:14>> How many guns were in Rich's house? Cuz
1:10:16I know the gun cabinet was in the lawn
1:10:18the laundry room. Correct.
1:10:19>> Yeah, it was it was just the one.
1:10:21There's only like one gun.
1:10:22>> Yeah. Uh but Nick had like that big ass
1:10:26that big ass gun in his room.
1:10:29>> Okay.
1:10:29>> I don't know if you I don't know if you
1:10:31guys even bothered to open it or see it.
1:10:34Uh but yeah, those were the only guns I
1:10:35saw in there was the little revolver
1:10:38that I took and then that big ass gun
1:10:40that Nick had.
1:10:42>> Okay. But the only gun that you took
1:10:43from the house and brought with you or
1:10:46>> was the revolver.
1:10:46>> Revolver. And you're still in possession
1:10:48of it at your house?
1:10:49>> Yes. Yes.
1:10:49>> You didn't take any other guns and sell
1:10:50them, trade them, pawn them?
1:10:52>> No.
1:10:52>> No. Nothing.
1:10:53>> No.
1:10:54>> Okay. Um, what about all the jewelry
1:10:57that Laura had?
1:10:58>> Took all the jewelry. All this gone for
1:11:01the most part.
1:11:02>> Where was the jewelry located in the
1:11:03house?
1:11:04>> It was kind of like spread out to be
1:11:07honest with you.
1:11:08>> Okay.
1:11:09>> Was it all in those white little white
1:11:11boxes that I saw on the kitchen floor?
1:11:13>> There were white boxes. There were brown
1:11:15boxes, you know. But yes. So, you just
1:11:17took what was in out of them and left
1:11:18those boxes scattered around?
1:11:20>> No. Uh, there was like
1:11:22>> Or you left some of them?
1:11:23>> I left some of them. There was like a
1:11:25whole tub like full of jewelry and
1:11:27stuff.
1:11:28>> How did you decide? Just whatever looked
1:11:29expensive.
1:11:30>> No, they had the price tags in there.
1:11:32>> Really? So, you just like weeded through
1:11:34them and whatever had was the most
1:11:35expensive, that's what you took.
1:11:36>> Yeah. Like there was like eight grand
1:11:39and all that stuff.
1:11:42>> Oh, yeah. Uh, there is still some left
1:11:44uh in the car.
1:11:46in the Kia.
1:11:47>> Yeah. Okay.
1:11:48>> And speaking of the Kia, that was one of
1:11:50my next questions. What was your
1:11:52thinking when you decided to leave the
1:11:53Hyundai at the clubhouse and take their
1:11:55Kia?
1:11:57>> I know that pro like I'm I'm not 100%
1:12:01finished uh telling my story.
1:12:04>> Okay. Um
1:12:04>> you tell go like I told you I I'll stay
1:12:06here all night. Um, but what was my
1:12:09Well, my original thing is like I was
1:12:13planning on going back down there and
1:12:15like finishing um burying and
1:12:18everything. Um,
1:12:21I was going by myself like a couple
1:12:23months by paying for their rent. I like
1:12:26called up and I was going make the money
1:12:28order and everything. Um,
1:12:30>> you call who did you call?
1:12:32>> It was the Meadows. Uh, I was finding
1:12:35out how much the rent was and
1:12:36everything. And this was like literally
1:12:38right before you discovered them, I
1:12:40believe.
1:12:40>> Mhm.
1:12:41>> Um,
1:12:43I was going to do that and I was going
1:12:44to stay up in Ohio and bulk up a little
1:12:46bit and then go down and bury them and
1:12:49move them.
1:12:50>> Bulk up? You mean like muscle? Yeah.
1:12:51>> So you could carry rich.
1:12:52>> Yeah. Not even I know that sounds
1:12:54[ __ ] but not even that to give the
1:12:57bodies more time to decompose to get
1:12:59them lighter and everything to
1:13:01>> but that didn't work out obviously.
1:13:04>> Right. So
1:13:06your plan was but I'm trying to figure
1:13:09out where the car fits in if you're
1:13:11>> Oh I I took the car cuz the tags on the
1:13:14other car on Jaime's car are expired.
1:13:18>> Gotcha. Okay. And you don't want to draw
1:13:20attention yourself driving a car with
1:13:21expired tags. Yes.
1:13:23>> Okay.
1:13:23>> On top of it, um I don't have my
1:13:26license.
1:13:27Uh it got taken away when I was like 19
1:13:31for unpaid fines and I just never paid
1:13:33it back.
1:13:34>> Okay. So, you don't have a license. You
1:13:35don't want to be driving a car with
1:13:36expired tags. You get pulled over, then
1:13:38you don't have any license, then you're
1:13:39going to get arrested.
1:13:41>> Okay. Well, instead, I could drive a car
1:13:44that has good tags and do the speed
1:13:46limit and not even get noticed.
1:13:49Okay. All right. Let's see.
1:13:56So you said didn't take when you when
1:13:58you left when you left here to go to
1:14:00Ohio. How did you get there? Like what
1:14:01route did you take?
1:14:04>> Did you go up 75 or
1:14:05>> No, it was 77. I think it was 77 north
1:14:08or is it 75 north?
1:14:11>> 75 you would go like towards I think
1:14:14Toledo. The other one you go through
1:14:16towards the Carolinas and then that way
1:14:18up.
1:14:18>> I want the one that was towards the
1:14:20Carolinas. So you go towards like
1:14:21Jacksonville and then up.
1:14:22>> Yeah.
1:14:23>> Okay.
1:14:24>> How many stops did you make?
1:14:28>> I stopped calling for gas.
1:14:30>> Not even that. I stopped like every two
1:14:32to three hours to change the kids cuz
1:14:34you know when you're doing a road trip
1:14:36like that, you kind of got to stop so
1:14:37they can stretch the legs.
1:14:39>> You don't want them sitting in dirty
1:14:40diapers.
1:14:40>> Exactly.
1:14:41>> Okay. I'm sure stop for food every once
1:14:44in a while.
1:14:44>> Mhm. Yeah. So, I mean, you could say,
1:14:47let's just say 10 times, you know,
1:14:49>> but you drove straight through. You
1:14:50didn't stop at any hotels or anything.
1:14:52You had to be exhausted.
1:14:53>> Oh, God.
1:14:54>> Cuz I my family I have family that lives
1:14:56in Michigan and I drove straight through
1:14:58one time and it was a little
1:15:00>> Not much longer, but a little bit
1:15:01longer. And I think I slept for two days
1:15:03afterwards. So, I'm sure you
1:15:04>> But you probably couldn't do that cuz
1:15:05you have two small kids.
1:15:06>> Yeah.
1:15:07>> Right. So, you probably got a little bit
1:15:08of sleep and then you're back up and
1:15:09running, right?
1:15:10>> Did you already have your living
1:15:11arrangements made up here
1:15:13>> before you got up here? And how did that
1:15:15come about?
1:15:16>> I basically told him I was moving up
1:15:18there and he's like, "Do you want to go
1:15:19in on a house?" And I said, "Yeah,
1:15:22that's what we did."
1:15:24>> Okay. And how did you know that guy?
1:15:27>> Uh, I worked with him and I went to
1:15:29school with him.
1:15:31>> Okay.
1:15:32>> Okay. Um, I know you said you smoked a
1:15:35little weed, but any other heavier
1:15:36drugs?
1:15:37>> [ __ ] no, dude.
1:15:38>> No. Don't have any drug addictions? No.
1:15:40Like alcoholism?
1:15:41>> No. I don't even touch alcohol. Nothing
1:15:43like that. Just
1:15:44>> I just honestly I just smoke weed to
1:15:46help my PTSD.
1:15:49>> And you said is there other PTSD or just
1:15:51the cold cold weather thing?
1:15:53>> Um
1:15:55the cold thing
1:15:58definitely with women for a little bit
1:15:59there and then I got over that uh cuz I
1:16:02like vagina. Uh,
1:16:08definitely always had an irrational fear
1:16:10of getting kicked out after being
1:16:12homeless. Always had that fear.
1:16:15Honestly, I think that's why I stayed
1:16:17with my wife for so long and tolerated
1:16:20her was because I was afraid of being
1:16:22alone out in the world.
1:16:23>> Well, that you got kids.
1:16:25>> Yeah,
1:16:26>> people people do. I mean, we're in this
1:16:28situation because of something in your
1:16:30mind that you did for your children,
1:16:32right? People sometimes do things they
1:16:35normally wouldn't do. I mean, what I
1:16:37mean, now that you're sitting here now,
1:16:40what do you think about this whole
1:16:41situation,
1:16:43>> dude? That
1:16:45if I could do it all over again, I would
1:16:47have just
1:16:49left my wife way back when and told the
1:16:52doctors the truth,
1:16:55you know, and you could look her up, you
1:16:56know. I'm not lying about her, you know.
1:16:58I know there's still record on her
1:17:00because I've looked it up. and just to
1:17:03see um there was a she attacked her
1:17:06parents um like in October of
1:17:112017.
1:17:12>> Mhm.
1:17:13>> And then her parents dropped the case.
1:17:18Was the type of woman I was married to.
1:17:21Um
1:17:23I would have just told the doctors the
1:17:24truth and left her. And honestly, sorry.
1:17:28Honestly, I probably could have gotten a
1:17:31case to where I could have raised the
1:17:33kids by myself just due to her mental
1:17:36stability. But
1:17:39>> well, there's no you're not going to
1:17:41dispute and I don't think we you could
1:17:42have an argument. You might have about
1:17:43it the wrong way.
1:17:44>> Oh god. Yeah.
1:17:45>> Yeah. Between her and then this
1:17:47incident,
1:17:48>> we made a lot of bad choices.
1:17:50>> Oh yeah. I'm not excusing my behavior at
1:17:52all.
1:17:52>> Yeah.
1:17:52>> I trust me, I'm not. These were great
1:17:55people, you know, and even her, she was
1:17:59she was great, too. There was just a
1:18:00side of her that she just couldn't
1:18:02control. But yeah, bad decisions.
1:18:05To be honest with you, I don't know if
1:18:07I'm psychotic or not. Um,
1:18:11I really don't. So,
1:18:14I think that's something that Well, I
1:18:16mean, don't you guys always psych
1:18:18psychologically evaluate people before
1:18:20trial? And
1:18:21>> down down the road, you would be. Yes.
1:18:23I'm I'm not a psychologist. I'm just a
1:18:25plain old detective that talks to
1:18:27people, you know, and tries to figure
1:18:30out crime and do the best I can and, you
1:18:32know, talk with people. And
1:18:35>> I hope I made your job easier. Well, I
1:18:38know I didn't cuz I could have been
1:18:39sitting here lying blue in the face. I
1:18:41could have been like, I'm not talking to
1:18:43you until I had an attorney in front of
1:18:45me. No, you just got off a plane.
1:18:47>> Yeah,
1:18:49that could that could have happened. You
1:18:51know, that was one of the things I had
1:18:53to prepare for is it they could have,
1:18:56you know, and I was prepared for that.
1:18:58But I I I it's my job,
1:19:01>> you know, it's just I'm sure you watch
1:19:04TV like, you know, you got to stay up
1:19:06and get it done.
1:19:07>> Oh, yeah.
1:19:07>> You know, and I
1:19:08>> just like with kids.
1:19:09>> Yeah. I mean, it just like if somebody
1:19:11did this to your family, you would want
1:19:13me to stay up for 5 days straight and
1:19:15fly to to Alaska if I had to to find
1:19:19>> of course
1:19:19>> your kids killers, right? Of course,
1:19:21>> you know, and that's the same I do the
1:19:23same thing for every family, whether it
1:19:24be your family or their family because
1:19:26their family wants answers. Their family
1:19:28deserves answers,
1:19:30>> of course,
1:19:30>> you know, and Jamie's family
1:19:33unfortunately won't get those answers
1:19:35because they're also gone now, too.
1:19:40Um, have you ever thought about like
1:19:42what you would say to Jamie like if she
1:19:44was still alive? You ever thought about
1:19:46like, man, I would tell her this or I
1:19:47would tell her that or
1:19:49>> like as far as her parents goes?
1:19:52>> Both. I mean, like with regards to her
1:19:54or with regards to her parents.
1:19:57>> Honestly, I think about her all the
1:19:59time. Um,
1:20:00>> what do you think?
1:20:04>> For a long time, I focused on the bad
1:20:08because I just wanted to hate her
1:20:10because I think I was very confused at
1:20:13first.
1:20:14But then over time, I just hung on to
1:20:17the good memories because that's the
1:20:19only way I can honor her now. You know,
1:20:21she's not here. So all I can do is like
1:20:25when you close your eyes at night, do
1:20:26you think about her or do you do you see
1:20:28that night over and over again in your
1:20:30mind? Like if you say PTSD, you would
1:20:33think like a traumatic incident, you
1:20:35know, when you kill her. Does do you
1:20:37ever like replay that in your mind?
1:20:38Because like I know with me I lay that
1:20:42at night my mind goes boom and I can
1:20:44replay things over and over and over
1:20:45again and I can't imagine something like
1:20:47that in your brain.
1:20:48>> At first it definitely did happen. Um
1:20:53but I learned I it's weird but I kind of
1:20:55learned to block out the memory
1:20:57altogether. Like I know it happened but
1:21:00just sitting there not thinking about
1:21:02something for so long you know it starts
1:21:05getting hazy and everything
1:21:06>> right. But I'm sure you see her face
1:21:08when you look at her. When you look at
1:21:09your kids, their her kids also. I'm sure
1:21:12when you look at your little girl or
1:21:14your little boy, you see her in them and
1:21:16it's gonna instantly bring you back to
1:21:19that horrible night, right? I would
1:21:21imagine. I mean,
1:21:22>> like I said, I don't ever want to put
1:21:23words in your mouth. So, if you don't
1:21:25agree, tell me like, "No, that doesn't
1:21:26happen." Whatever.
1:21:28>> It's, you know, it's hit or miss at this
1:21:32point. Like I said, uh the beginning was
1:21:35very hard.
1:21:37At this point, I think for my coping
1:21:41mechanism, I think of all the good times
1:21:43we've had. I've take I think I think of
1:21:45all the times I've taken her out on
1:21:48dates, that we cuddled, that we just sat
1:21:50there watching movies and
1:21:52>> right, the good stuff.
1:21:53>> I just try to focus on that cuz that's
1:21:56who that woman was at the end of the
1:21:58day, you know? She just had a side of
1:22:00her that she
1:22:02couldn't control. And if you're
1:22:05wondering if I hate myself every day for
1:22:07these horrendous acts I committed,
1:22:10it's obvious I do hate myself. I mean,
1:22:14if I didn't hate myself, I would be
1:22:15sitting here trying to lie to you to get
1:22:17myself out of this situation.
1:22:19>> Well, like I would with any other
1:22:21situation. But
1:22:23>> like we like we discussed before, I
1:22:25mean, you just made some horrible
1:22:28choices,
1:22:30you know? I mean, and in your mind, I
1:22:32think you built it up to where those are
1:22:34the only choices you could make. That
1:22:36doesn't make you a monster. You know, a
1:22:38monster is when you do something like if
1:22:40you just snuck into their house, killed
1:22:42them for absolutely no reason,
1:22:45no remorse, just I just did it cuz I
1:22:48wanted to. You'd be a monster. But in
1:22:52this case, you thought this was like I
1:22:55said in this based on what you're
1:22:56telling me, I have to do this to keep my
1:22:59kids. You know, you said yourself, I'm
1:23:02driving to Florida and I'm thinking to
1:23:04myself, I have to kill these people.
1:23:08>> Yeah.
1:23:09>> You know, I mean, you get a hammer, you
1:23:10laid laid and wait, you waited for him,
1:23:13you know, and you took them out. You
1:23:15knew when you had that opportunity cuz
1:23:18you've got Nick at work. She's at the
1:23:21grocery store.
1:23:22>> Mhm.
1:23:23>> You know, there's going to be time in
1:23:25between each one. So, you got
1:23:26one-on-one.
1:23:28You know, you take him out, you wait for
1:23:30her, she comes in, bam, you got her. Cuz
1:23:34what are you going to do? Take You can't
1:23:35go after all three of them at the same
1:23:36time, right? Because what's going to
1:23:37happen?
1:23:38>> Yeah. They're going to fight back and
1:23:39then
1:23:40>> Exactly. So, I mean, you saw the moment,
1:23:42you seized it,
1:23:44you know? It's So,
1:23:48all right. For what it's worth, like I
1:23:50said, I did try to like when I was on my
1:23:54way down there, my intention was to kill
1:23:56them and then I got there and I didn't
1:23:58want to kill them and I looked for every
1:24:01excuse and every opportunity and I was
1:24:02so close.
1:24:06>> Oh, so the date you left, was it the
1:24:0822nd or the 23rd?
1:24:09>> I believe the 22nd.
1:24:11>> 22nd. So, cuz it took you like what?
1:24:13till it was like it was like
1:24:1812 in the afternoon when I finally met
1:24:20up with my uh with my friend up in Ohio
1:24:23>> on the Christmas. Yeah.
1:24:25>> Okay. So, you left on the 22nd about
1:24:27what time?
1:24:31>> Oh, it was like the first thing in the
1:24:32morning
1:24:33>> before sun came up.
1:24:37>> Okay. Maybe not first thing. I want to
1:24:39say like
1:24:40>> what was the sun up? No, it was up.
1:24:42>> Sun was up. Yeah, it was like 8 to 10 in
1:24:44the morning.
1:24:46>> Right. And I was going to ask I had
1:24:49something on the I had something on the
1:24:50pill my tongue and I totally forgot.
1:24:52>> Jesus Christ. Before I forget, there's a
1:24:54ton of evidence that's in that car.
1:24:56>> Okay, go ahead and write it down. And
1:24:57you said
1:24:58>> uh
1:24:59>> go ahead. Can I ask you a question while
1:25:01you're writing,
1:25:01>> please?
1:25:02>> I don't want to disrupt your train of
1:25:03thought, but you said before the dogs.
1:25:05At what point do you take the you tell
1:25:07the dogs? Because you said it was like
1:25:08right before you left the house. So, um,
1:25:12the dog that was by the woman or by
1:25:15Laura, he died on his own basically. Um,
1:25:19I'll put, uh, No, he had diabetes and I
1:25:22didn't know how to like
1:25:23>> dude in that stuff. So,
1:25:25>> okay. Is that one of the ones in the Cuz
1:25:26there was one dog in a garbage bag,
1:25:28another dog in a garbage bag, and there
1:25:29was one in a rug.
1:25:30>> This is the one on the rug.
1:25:31>> The one in the rug died on his own
1:25:33because you didn't give him his insulin.
1:25:34>> Well, he didn't die on He was dying.
1:25:37Okay.
1:25:37>> And then I put him out of his misery.
1:25:39>> How did you do that? I just whacked him
1:25:41once with the side of the hammer and he
1:25:43instantly died.
1:25:44>> Okay.
1:25:45>> I knew that he would die instantly being
1:25:47that he was a small breed and
1:25:48everything.
1:25:49>> Okay.
1:25:50>> Um,
1:25:52as far as the other dogs go, um, they
1:25:56got put in the bag the last night and
1:25:58they suffocated and everything.
1:26:00>> Okay. So, you didn't hit them with a
1:26:01hammer, you just tied the bag shut and
1:26:04>> suffocated them. Okay.
1:26:06>> Because I examined the dogs. I mean, I
1:26:08couldn't see any like obvious damage.
1:26:12>> So, that was one of my theories was that
1:26:13they suffocated. The only thing was, you
1:26:16know, the dog the bags are dark and I
1:26:17would assume the dog would have tried to
1:26:19scratch the way out, but I guess they
1:26:20didn't. So, or I just didn't notice it.
1:26:22>> Yeah.
1:26:22>> So, and you did that like right before
1:26:24you left. Was it like that morning or
1:26:25the day before?
1:26:26>> The night before.
1:26:27>> Night before. So, so I knew they were uh
1:26:30gone before I left.
1:26:32>> Okay.
1:26:32>> Yeah. Uh I know that sounds dark,
1:26:35killing the dogs. The reason I did that,
1:26:38uh,
1:26:39two kids, kind of a full house to try to
1:26:41go into like an animal shelter with two
1:26:44kids and two dogs and everything. Not
1:26:47impossible. But then the thought hit me
1:26:49of if these uh these dogs have those uh
1:26:53trackers in them, they're just going to
1:26:55go back to the house and then,
1:26:57>> you know.
1:26:59>> Mhm.
1:27:00>> So,
1:27:00>> okay. All right. You said there's a
1:27:01bunch of stuff in the car. Sorry.
1:27:04And then you're talking about the car at
1:27:06the clubhouse.
1:27:06>> Yeah.
1:27:07>> Okay. Stuff that you took from the
1:27:08house.
1:27:10>> Bag evidence basically like a bloody
1:27:12pillow. Um
1:27:13>> Okay.
1:27:14>> All that type of stuff.
1:27:15>> Okay.
1:27:15>> Like all their paperwork and stuff like
1:27:18that.
1:27:19>> Okay.
1:27:22>> While you're writing that, I'm going to
1:27:23take I'm going to step up for just a
1:27:25quick second. Okay. Okay.
1:27:31I was going to ask where he was like
1:27:33you're recording off your phone. I was
1:27:35like, where the hell is the recorder?
1:27:37>> Yeah. Got my old man glasses, my little
1:27:41recorder. Be right back. I'll let you
1:27:42keep working on it. Right back.
1:27:44>> Do you care if I go pee again real
1:27:46quick?
1:27:46>> Yeah, definitely. Take another resting
1:27:48break. I might have to take one here in
1:27:50a minute also.
1:27:51>> Yeah, that red bowl will go through your
1:27:53bladder when I come tomorrow.
1:27:54>> Yeah. Well, actually, it dehydrates me.
1:27:56I need some water. Oh,
1:28:06>> we just let it see the nurse in the
1:28:08morning and then once you see the nurse
1:28:10then yeah, she'll take you out of it.
1:28:11>> Okay.
1:28:11>> Just have a seat for just a second.
1:28:12She'll be I'll be right back. Okay.
1:28:14>> Okay.
1:28:42All right, we're almost done, bud. Um,
1:28:44you were starting on You said there was
1:28:45evidence in the car.
1:28:47>> I already I just put down 2010 or long
1:28:50trip bag evidence. There's a bunch of I
1:28:52can't even remember everything in the
1:28:54bags.
1:28:55>> Do you remember anything that's in it?
1:28:56>> I know. There's like all their like
1:28:59paperwork type stuff like
1:29:00>> paperwork from their house.
1:29:01>> Yeah. Yeah. And where did you get that
1:29:03from?
1:29:03>> Like in the rooms and everything.
1:29:05>> In the room. Did you go through all I'm
1:29:07going to imagine you went through
1:29:08everything?
1:29:08>> Yeah. This was uh at the point where I
1:29:11still planned on digging the hole and
1:29:13burying them right there. So this was
1:29:15when I'm like going through the house,
1:29:16bagging everything up.
1:29:18>> So going put it in the car and I was
1:29:21going to go dump it out, but I just just
1:29:24said I don't know. When um I don't know
1:29:27if I asked you this before, but so the
1:29:29plan is you're going to bury all three
1:29:31of them in this big hole,
1:29:32>> right?
1:29:34>> At what point do you say I there's no
1:29:35way I can do this cuz Rich was so big?
1:29:37>> Yeah, Rich was too heavy at that point.
1:29:39>> Okay.
1:29:39>> Um feel like all the dead weight from
1:29:42being uh from
1:29:45decomposing still in the early stages
1:29:48made them heavier. There was I I could I
1:29:51barely move them. I don't know how the
1:29:53hell you guys got them out there.
1:29:56It took a lot.
1:29:58>> I couldn't get him out there.
1:29:59>> Yeah. So, I mean, so you just like kind
1:30:01of this isn't going to happen. I need to
1:30:03think of something else.
1:30:04>> Yeah.
1:30:05>> And so, I I came up with the scheme
1:30:07where I was going to stay in Ohio for
1:30:10like a month or two and bulk up and wait
1:30:13for the bodies to decompose a little
1:30:14more,
1:30:16pay their rent, and then come down, get
1:30:18them buried, um, trash the house, and
1:30:21not have to worry about
1:30:22>> Yeah. Did you have did you have a plan
1:30:25as to like what time of day or night you
1:30:26were going to try to get them out of the
1:30:28house into that hole? Because I mean
1:30:29that's
1:30:30>> Yeah, that was going to be midnight.
1:30:31>> Midnight. Okay.
1:30:32>> Midnight to 1:00 a.m.
1:30:33>> I mean you were there for what? A couple
1:30:35weeks,
1:30:37>> right?
1:30:38>> When they were dead.
1:30:38>> No, no, no. In total from the time you
1:30:41got there and they're alive, then you
1:30:42kill them and you stay in the house.
1:30:43>> Yeah.
1:30:44>> With your kids. I mean, because you
1:30:45stayed in the house with the kids until
1:30:48about six days.
1:30:50>> Yeah.
1:30:50>> Right around there. Correct. with them
1:30:51deceased in the house.
1:30:54>> Um,
1:30:56yeah. So, because I I mean I go to the
1:30:58neighborhood a lot and there's it's an
1:31:00older community, a lot of people.
1:31:03>> Mhm.
1:31:03>> And I don't know if you know anything
1:31:05about older communities. They want to
1:31:08know what everything's going on.
1:31:09>> Oh, yeah.
1:31:10>> So, that was one of my That was actually
1:31:12one of my questions I wanted I really
1:31:13wanted to ask you was what was the plan
1:31:15of how are you going to get them out
1:31:17without anybody seeing you and getting
1:31:18them into the hole?
1:31:19>> Oh, okay.
1:31:21Um,
1:31:22and so
1:31:24the plan was to have the hole dug up a
1:31:28couple hours before I put them in there
1:31:29and everything. So I have the hole dug
1:31:32up. Granted, I don't think it was deep
1:31:34enough. Definitely wasn't deep enough. I
1:31:36wanted it deeper, but my paranoia was
1:31:39kind of playing at me cuz like you said,
1:31:42you know, I'm very aware of how old
1:31:43people function.
1:31:44>> They're very finicky. They need to know
1:31:46what's going on. Peeking out their
1:31:48window every 20 minutes type
1:31:52Um,
1:31:53and then yeah, I was going to put them
1:31:55in there. Um, first I was going to put
1:31:57the bodies in those tarps, wrap them up
1:32:00in the tarp, tie it with the rope, drag
1:32:03them with the rope like while it's, you
1:32:06know, on the tarp and everything tied up
1:32:08on the tarp and then put them in that
1:32:10hole.
1:32:11>> Okay. And you're when you speak of the
1:32:13rope, you're talking about the one that
1:32:14was laid out in the on the
1:32:16>> living room floor with the loop like the
1:32:17boating loop and stuff you bought at
1:32:19Home Depot.
1:32:20>> Yeah.
1:32:20>> Okay. And um
1:32:24what else I was going to answer?
1:32:25Something I I just thought of something
1:32:27else. See, I'm getting tired too and
1:32:29like I have a question on my in my mind
1:32:31and then I ask you one question then I
1:32:33forget the second question.
1:32:34>> I do have a question though.
1:32:35>> Okay. If I can answer it, I will. I
1:32:37can't promise you.
1:32:38>> Yeah. Since I've been so cooperative, I
1:32:40know it's very highly unlikely, but we
1:32:43both know I'm going to Florida after
1:32:44this that'll be expedited to Florida.
1:32:48Will there be any way I can see my kids
1:32:51for like 15 20 minutes before I leave?
1:32:55Cuz, you know, this is going to be my
1:32:56last time before I see them before
1:32:57they're adults.
1:32:59>> Correct. I doubt it. I There's no way I
1:33:03could say that you could. What I what I
1:33:05can do for you is if you would like I
1:33:08can give you this this you can keep the
1:33:10same notebook and piece of paper and you
1:33:11can write them a letter.
1:33:13>> Would you want to do that?
1:33:15>> Yeah, I mean
1:33:16>> Okay.
1:33:16>> Yeah, I'll do that.
1:33:18>> Let's see how many pieces of paper it
1:33:19was. Can you do it on free pieces of
1:33:21paper?
1:33:22>> I think so. Yeah.
1:33:23>> Okay.
1:33:25>> Want me to give you some time alone so
1:33:27you can write it?
1:33:28>> No, cuz I don't even know what I Don't
1:33:30worry about it. You know, I got money on
1:33:32my books. I like came in here with like
1:33:341300 something. Um I plan on saving it
1:33:38and using on hygiene letter. So I'll
1:33:41just eventually send something to my mom
1:33:44to give to them.
1:33:45>> But okay, let me
1:33:48How much money did you get from pawning
1:33:49all the jewelry?
1:33:52>> This is my This is my own money. This
1:33:54wasn't from uh the pawn. Uh, what I got
1:33:57from that was I would say relatively
1:34:013 to four grand.
1:34:03>> 3 to 4,000 from all the different pawn
1:34:04shops.
1:34:05>> Yeah.
1:34:05>> And it was it was it pawn shops in
1:34:07Florida?
1:34:08>> Yeah, there were some in Florida.
1:34:09>> Some in Florida and the rest were up
1:34:10here or did you did you stop anywhere on
1:34:12in route to Ohio? Any other pawn shops?
1:34:15>> No, just here in Ohio.
1:34:17>> So in Florida, because you're in Ohio
1:34:20now
1:34:21>> in Florida, you pond them. Sorry. by
1:34:23yourself with the kids,
1:34:25>> right? You come to Ohio and is that
1:34:28where you get Caitlyn to pawn them for
1:34:29you or you pawn them with Caitlyn? I
1:34:30don't remember.
1:34:31>> I pawn them,
1:34:32>> but Caitlyn's with you.
1:34:33>> Yes.
1:34:34>> Correct.
1:34:34>> Yes.
1:34:35>> Okay. Where do you get that money that
1:34:37you have on you when you were arrested?
1:34:39Like you said it was your money.
1:34:40>> Yes. Well, like I said, I work in the
1:34:42oil field and everything, so I had some
1:34:44money saved up. I had I've had like
1:34:46relatively six grand, six to seven grand
1:34:49saved up before I went to Florida.
1:34:52>> Okay.
1:34:53Okay. All right. Well, that was a
1:34:54question I had because, you know,
1:34:56obviously if it was
1:34:58monies that you acquired from killing
1:35:02them and then stealing and then pawning
1:35:04>> Mhm.
1:35:05>> that would be money that would be
1:35:07seized,
1:35:08>> right? You understand that, right?
1:35:09Because it's money that you got in
1:35:10commission of a
1:35:11>> felony.
1:35:12>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
1:35:13>> Okay. Yeah.
1:35:13>> That's why I asked cuz
1:35:15>> I want to make sure cuz I what I wanted
1:35:16to do is I didn't want you to think
1:35:18you're going to have this commissary. If
1:35:19it was evidentiary, it's going to get
1:35:20seed then you're not going to have
1:35:21commissary. I just want to make sure
1:35:22that if you want to write your kids a
1:35:24letter that you could do it,
1:35:25>> but if you, you know, if you want to do
1:35:27it down the road,
1:35:28>> I'll do it down the road.
1:35:29>> That's fine.
1:35:30>> Um, I'm sure I'll have a long ass time
1:35:33to before this case is even solved
1:35:35anyway.
1:35:36>> Yeah.
1:35:36>> Well, not solved, but
1:35:38>> resolved in court is what you're saying.
1:35:40>> Mhm.
1:35:42>> Which, if you don't mind, now I have a
1:35:44couple questions for you.
1:35:45>> Like I said, I'll answer anything I can.
1:35:47>> So, what's going to happen now?
1:35:50Obviously, I gave you the full story.
1:35:52I'm sure we're going to go over it a
1:35:54couple more times.
1:35:56Um, what's going to happen to me now?
1:36:00>> Okay. Well, as you said, you know,
1:36:02>> I'll be expedited to Florida.
1:36:03>> You'll be extradited.
1:36:05>> Extradited
1:36:05>> and then, you know, then the court
1:36:07proceedings will begin,
1:36:09>> but I've seen
1:36:13like I've watched First 48 and all that
1:36:16stuff like
1:36:17>> as do I. I watch it all the time.
1:36:18Believe it or not, I do. I'm sure you do
1:36:20because it's your job and you want to
1:36:22learn or from other people's mistakes.
1:36:25But even when it comes to like why is it
1:36:29when it comes to cases like these like
1:36:31say I like gave you the full story you
1:36:33know you guys know everything that
1:36:34happened. Is it still going to take us
1:36:36some years for this stuff to get
1:36:38resolved in court?
1:36:39>> That will depend on you. A lot of that
1:36:42depends on you and you know if down the
1:36:45road you get an attorney.
1:36:48It, you know, it all depends. I mean, if
1:36:50I can't, like I said, I can't give you
1:36:52legal advice. I'm not an attorney. I'm
1:36:53not a judge.
1:36:54>> I'm not looking for,
1:36:55>> right? I mean, I can give you like the
1:36:57the roundabout ways, you know, basically
1:36:59if you know, it it all depends on if you
1:37:02plead guilty to everything, it's going
1:37:04to expedite the process. If you down the
1:37:08road you're like, you know what,
1:37:11I don't want to plead guilty. And this
1:37:13goes to trial, then it gets prolonged.
1:37:15It could be years. a case of this
1:37:17magnitude. I mean, because we both agree
1:37:19this is a huge case. And not only do we
1:37:22have you you murdered three people in
1:37:24Tarpon Springs, you finally came out
1:37:27with the truth that hey, I murdered my
1:37:29wife in Newport Richie.
1:37:30>> Yeah. Well, you know, I had to tell you
1:37:33guys, you know,
1:37:34>> and we appreciate that. And Jamie
1:37:36deserves it. You would agree that,
1:37:37right? She doesn't deserve to be buried
1:37:39in the back in a backyard. No,
1:37:41>> right. I mean, she deserves a proper
1:37:42burial. Exactly.
1:37:43>> Because your kids are going to get
1:37:45older.
1:37:47They need to know what happened to my
1:37:48mom and be able to maybe go to a
1:37:51cemetery plot and, you know, at least
1:37:55pay their respects and know where she
1:37:57is. You you know, do you agree?
1:37:59>> Of course.
1:37:59>> You know, and I I think that was
1:38:00weighing on you. I mean, I'm sure I
1:38:03mean, that's a lot to hold in for a
1:38:05year, you know, all the these big
1:38:08charades you're doing, the phone,
1:38:11you know, and this and that and just
1:38:14you're go. I mean,
1:38:15>> not to sound like an idiot, but it's
1:38:17almost a relief to be caught. The only
1:38:19thing that sucks is not being a part of
1:38:20my kid's life, obviously.
1:38:22>> But I can tell you right now, like I
1:38:24told you, I've known a long time.
1:38:26the amount of weight of what you have on
1:38:29you in your heart, your head, on your
1:38:32shoulders, however you want to word it,
1:38:34of killing four people to get that out
1:38:36and finally be able to tell somebody is
1:38:39almost like up I don't want to say
1:38:41uplifting. I don't know if that's the
1:38:42right word I'm looking for, but you feel
1:38:46like the weights are off you, right? Cuz
1:38:48you're like, "Oh my god, I finally got
1:38:50this out. I was finally like I'm free of
1:38:52it."
1:38:52>> Yeah. I mean, because I couldn't tell
1:38:54anybody, right? You can't tell people
1:38:56that,
1:38:56>> right? Um I know what I I know what I
1:39:00thought of.
1:39:00>> What?
1:39:01>> Cellular phones. Rich and Laura, did
1:39:03they have cellular phones?
1:39:04>> Yes.
1:39:05>> What happened to the cellular phones?
1:39:07>> I forget what happened to his to Rich's.
1:39:12Hers I kept a hold of.
1:39:14Uh I I even texted their family here and
1:39:17there because they were getting worried,
1:39:18you know. I was trying to do that whole
1:39:20bull again.
1:39:23And then I got rid of him this morning.
1:39:26Uh to be honest with you, I saw that I
1:39:28was uh caught on the news and
1:39:31everything. So
1:39:32>> Oh, you saw it on the news?
1:39:33>> Yeah. Well, not on our news up here,
1:39:36>> but I looked it up cuz, you know, I kind
1:39:38I think I got paranoia to some
1:39:40extension. Then again, I committed
1:39:42murder, so of course I'm going to be
1:39:44paranoid about um but yeah, I looked all
1:39:48I did was type in three deaths in Tarpon
1:39:50Springs and then three dead three dead,
1:39:53three dogs dead and I was like, "Yep,
1:39:55time to get rid of phones."
1:39:57>> Okay. Where did you write them?
1:39:59>> I just threw them on the on the road um
1:40:01off of West 117th.
1:40:04>> West I've never been to Ohio other than
1:40:07driving through my way to Michigan.
1:40:09Okay. Do you remember like if if I
1:40:12brought a detective in that is familiar
1:40:14with this area, would you be able to
1:40:15tell them where you threw them out?
1:40:16>> Yeah, it's literally right off of
1:40:18Madison and 117th.
1:40:20>> Madison and 117th.
1:40:22>> I don't know if you'll be able to find
1:40:24it though cuz that was yesterday
1:40:27morning.
1:40:29>> Do you remember what kind of phones they
1:40:30are?
1:40:32>> A smart one smartphone.
1:40:35>> Droid or Apple?
1:40:37>> Droid.
1:40:37>> One smartphone Droid.
1:40:39>> Yeah. And whose was that?
1:40:40>> That was hers. She had two phones.
1:40:43>> She had two. Okay.
1:40:45>> Um, and then just one of those old
1:40:49school, not flip phones, but what came
1:40:50after the flip phones? Those keypad
1:40:52phone things.
1:40:53>> Okay. And that was his.
1:40:54>> That was hers, too. Like I said, I don't
1:40:57remember what happened to his.
1:41:00>> I think I got rid of it.
1:41:02>> Who are you texting people on? Which
1:41:04phone do you remember?
1:41:05>> The keypad phone.
1:41:06>> Keypad phone. This is the one you're
1:41:08texting family. Do you remember? I know
1:41:10you may not remember and I'm just I told
1:41:12you who you were texting. Do you know
1:41:14what family member it was?
1:41:15>> Yes.
1:41:15>> Who was it?
1:41:17>> Write it down.
1:41:30>> Catherine is Laura's niece. Barb is her
1:41:34sister-in-law
1:41:36and her actual real. Okay. If you just
1:41:38write it underneath there.
1:41:39>> Sorry.
1:41:40>> What I'm going to do is just I'm going
1:41:42to bring in one of the detectives
1:41:43momentarily just so you can describe the
1:41:45area
1:41:46>> of where you think you threw the phones
1:41:48out cuz you know obviously we'd like to
1:41:49recover them if we can.
1:41:50>> Go ahead.
1:41:51>> Okay.
1:42:01>> All right.
1:42:03So, if you want to describe,
1:42:04>> so West 117th in you're familiar with
1:42:07the area?
1:42:08>> Yeah, they got Joe's Deli up there. You
1:42:10got the
1:42:10>> basically right where that bridge is at.
1:42:12Right underneath the bridge is where I
1:42:14threw the phones
1:42:15>> by the rapids there. There's that big
1:42:17bridge.
1:42:17>> I'm still not really familiar with the
1:42:19super area,
1:42:20>> but there's there's the bridge over
1:42:21there.
1:42:22>> Yeah, it's right before that Home Depot.
1:42:25>> Okay.
1:42:26>> So, right by the by the bridges on
1:42:28117th.
1:42:28>> Yes.
1:42:29>> You think they they were landed in the
1:42:31street? Yeah. I threw them in a street.
1:42:33>> Yeah. Because that when you're going
1:42:35down, it goes down.
1:42:37>> So you got walls on both sides.
1:42:40>> Yeah.
1:42:40>> Because it goes down, you know, kind of
1:42:43past ground level.
1:42:45>> Mhm.
1:42:45>> And you got these big huge walls on each
1:42:47side and then there's a walkway on each
1:42:49side. So
1:42:50>> Yeah. That's where That's exactly.
1:42:52>> So they hit the street.
1:42:54>> Yeah.
1:42:54>> Okay.
1:43:00Oh, I know the gloves. There's like an
1:43:03orange gloves that were in the living
1:43:04room. There was a pair of gloves. There
1:43:05was one on the floor and one on a table.
1:43:07>> I might just use it to like
1:43:10put on while I was cleaning stuff up to
1:43:12be honest with you.
1:43:13>> And then the duct tape. What was the the
1:43:14gorilla tape? The big black roll of
1:43:16gorilla tape
1:43:17>> to roll up the tarps with.
1:43:19>> That's what you're going to use for the
1:43:19tarps.
1:43:20>> Okay.
1:43:21>> So, just the three phones that I might I
1:43:22might find out there.
1:43:24>> Two. Yeah,
1:43:24>> one smartphone Droid and one keypad
1:43:28phone. We don't know what the
1:43:30>> what the brand
1:43:31>> like a flip phone.
1:43:32>> Kind of like a flip phone, but the
1:43:34generation that came after it.
1:43:37>> Anything else with it?
1:43:38>> They're Verizon phones, so that makes it
1:43:40easier, too.
1:43:41>> Yeah. Sure. If we find a couple phones
1:43:43out there. Anything else with it?
1:43:45Nothing. Just the two phones.
1:43:47>> You can throw them together or one at a
1:43:48time.
1:43:49>> One at a time. But like
1:43:52>> So, how fast do you think you're
1:43:53driving? Just so we know how to space it
1:43:55out.
1:43:55>> Oh, I was driving like 35.
1:43:57>> 35 he throw one and then right after he
1:43:59throw another one. So they're going to
1:44:00be a little bit distance apart.
1:44:01>> This was today's Thursday.
1:44:03>> This was in the morning.
1:44:05>> Today? Yeah.
1:44:05>> In the morning today.
1:44:06>> Yeah.
1:44:08Okay. Yeah.
1:44:09>> So on Wednesday morning.
1:44:10>> Yeah.
1:44:11>> So they might
1:44:12>> No, no, no. I'm sorry. Thursday morning.
1:44:14Thursday.
1:44:14>> Okay. So this morning?
1:44:15>> Yeah.
1:44:16>> Okay. So they might still be here.
1:44:18>> Hopefully if they didn't get run over or
1:44:19anything.
1:44:20>> Okay. Well, even if they did, we we
1:44:21still want to recover. So, okay. Thank
1:44:24you.
1:44:25>> All right. Um,
1:44:27and
1:44:29last thing is, and the reason I'm gonna
1:44:31ask you is because we're at 4 and we're
1:44:33getting everything off of just a blank
1:44:35computer screen. Have you
1:44:36>> Oh, I thought you meant like 4:00 a.m.
1:44:38>> No, it's 2:55.
1:44:39>> I I know by 4 now.
1:44:41>> Yeah. 4. You've killed four people.
1:44:43Admittedly, you killed You know, you
1:44:45murdered your wife. You murdered Rich,
1:44:47>> Laura,
1:44:48>> Laura, and Nick. So, you've murdered
1:44:49four people. Is there any other bodies
1:44:52in any other states? No. We've never
1:44:54killed anyone else.
1:44:55>> We've never killed
1:44:56>> Never killed anyone in Texas. Never
1:44:58killed anyone
1:44:59>> in Ohio. So, just
1:45:01>> I would definitely come out and tell
1:45:02you.
1:45:03>> Well, I believe you. I mean, you're
1:45:05being upfront and honest.
1:45:08>> But we're here. I want to make sure
1:45:11everything gets out. You know, I want to
1:45:12make sure I want to make sure that
1:45:14Shelby has everything out. Shelby is
1:45:16clear conscience. He knows he told
1:45:18everything.
1:45:20And my last question to you is, is there
1:45:23anything else that we haven't talked
1:45:25about that I haven't asked you? And I've
1:45:26tried to be as detailed as possible that
1:45:29you think I need to know about this case
1:45:31or that Newport Richie police or the
1:45:34Pasco Sheriff's. Do you know who who
1:45:36covered that area? Was it a sheriff? Did
1:45:39you ever the police come to your house
1:45:40when you lived on Norwood where you
1:45:41where you killed Jamie at? Did you ever
1:45:43have the police come to your house?
1:45:44>> Mm-m.
1:45:45>> Okay. Do you know offhand? We'll find
1:45:48out. Do you know like if you would have
1:45:50called the police, was it Newport Richie
1:45:51police that would have responded or the
1:45:53sheriff that would have responded?
1:45:54>> It would have been Newport Richie
1:45:56>> cuz I don't know where is Norwood.
1:45:58>> Norwood.
1:45:58>> I know where Golf High School is. I know
1:46:00where downtown is.
1:46:01>> It is literally 15 minutes away from
1:46:03that Walmart by that mall.
1:46:06>> Okay. Off of
1:46:07>> Do you like remember a crossroad off in
1:46:10Norwood? Like how to get there?
1:46:13If you don't, I know it's been been a
1:46:15while.
1:46:15>> What's that main highway? Is that 52?
1:46:17>> US 19.
1:46:18>> US 19.
1:46:18>> 54.
1:46:19>> Um,
1:46:20>> Main Street.
1:46:22>> It's off of US 19. I can tell you that.
1:46:26>> Um,
1:46:27>> Norwood,
1:46:28>> it's where that uh it'll be off the
1:46:31street where that big Wells Fargo is at.
1:46:34You know, that big huge one
1:46:36>> on 19 that's um kind of by that strip
1:46:39mall.
1:46:40>> Okay. Everything.
1:46:41>> We'll find it.
1:46:42>> Okay.
1:46:43Um,
1:46:45as for the exact house, I uh
1:46:49forget the number. Um,
1:46:54>> okay. Well, there and you're most likely
1:46:56going to be approached by a Newport
1:46:58Richie detective or Pas depending on if
1:47:00it's theirs or Pasco Sheriff's Office
1:47:02detective in relation to your to Jamie,
1:47:05your wife, because that didn't occur in
1:47:07Tarpon Springs. That's not going to be
1:47:09my case.
1:47:10>> Okay.
1:47:11You're most likely going to have the
1:47:14visitor from one of them. Obviously, I'm
1:47:17going to note I'll notate everything
1:47:19you're telling me about it in my report
1:47:21to give to them
1:47:22>> in reference to recovering her.
1:47:25>> Is there anything else about that
1:47:27incident that you want to tell me now
1:47:30that you think they should know that I
1:47:31can pass on to them about what occurred?
1:47:35>> I just like this is your time. Like I
1:47:37told you, I'll stay here all night. We
1:47:38can talk all night. I want to make sure
1:47:40that Shelby has a chance to tell
1:47:42everything he wants to tell about
1:47:43everything involved.
1:47:45>> I mean,
1:47:48I've basically told everything that I
1:47:51wanted to tell. Okay. I've made my, you
1:47:54know, peace.
1:47:55>> You know, you know that I didn't do this
1:47:58because I wanted to be evil and I wanted
1:47:59to kill people. I
1:48:01>> did it cuz I felt that I had no choice
1:48:03at that time period.
1:48:06You also know my wife was very abusive
1:48:10both physically and mentally and
1:48:12emotionally.
1:48:14And like I said, please feel free to
1:48:15look into her record and you can see all
1:48:17the police calls and all that. You'll
1:48:20see that.
1:48:22But
1:48:26>> okay. And like I said, I mean, we know
1:48:28we we know you were you like Domino's
1:48:31pizza. I know that.
1:48:33I saw the Domino's boxes in the house
1:48:35and on the patio and the who who like is
1:48:39it the kids that love the chicken
1:48:40nuggets or is that you too?
1:48:42>> That's the kids. Yeah. Yeah. They It's
1:48:44funny cuz that's just what I had going
1:48:46on at the house before you uh
1:48:48>> before you guys jump.
1:48:49>> Did they like dad even want chicken? Oh,
1:48:50does your daughter talk
1:48:52>> a little bit? A little bit. And
1:48:53obviously your son's too young to talk,
1:48:55right? Is he walking?
1:48:56>> He's walking. Yeah.
1:48:57>> Is he?
1:48:58>> I feel bad for them though. I really do
1:49:00because
1:49:01>> well I feel bad for them also. I mean
1:49:02their mother's gone and for all intents
1:49:05and purposes now their dad's gone
1:49:07because of what unfortunately is bad
1:49:10decisions.
1:49:11>> You know that's you're giving them a
1:49:13rough uh rough start.
1:49:15>> I know.
1:49:16>> But you said that your mom's a good mom,
1:49:19right?
1:49:20>> She is. And she'll do a wonderful job.
1:49:23>> So you have that at least you know, hey,
1:49:25they're with my mom. My mom's a good
1:49:28mom.
1:49:29It just sucks cuz I'm literally their
1:49:31world. Like,
1:49:34>> Shelby, I'll tell you right now, I have
1:49:36a son.
1:49:38I can't fathom it. I can't like based on
1:49:42what you're telling me. And I don't know
1:49:43you. You could be I don't think you
1:49:45would, but you could be blowing smoke up
1:49:48my butt. I don't think you are. I think
1:49:49you're being completely honest. You've
1:49:50been nothing but forthright. You have no
1:49:52reason to not. From what everything you
1:49:54said, those kids are your world. All of
1:49:56this stuff revolves around what your
1:50:00love of your kids, right? Can't imagine.
1:50:04I have one child.
1:50:09Can't imagine. Can't imagine, you know,
1:50:11what you're going through and what
1:50:12you're, you know, going through your
1:50:13mind. I just can't do it. It just sucks
1:50:14like laying in that bed. And
1:50:18I used to cuddle with them all the time
1:50:20cuz you know
1:50:24after her, I didn't really like cuddling
1:50:25or sleeping with women, but my kids
1:50:30and I loved cuddling with them. Oliver,
1:50:33he just loves just coming over and
1:50:35sitting on my lap.
1:50:37Makes your day, right?
1:50:38>> Yeah.
1:50:38>> I used to tell people all the time I
1:50:40could have the worst day in the world.
1:50:41When I go home and I see my kids, I
1:50:42forget about everything. Is that how you
1:50:44are kind of?
1:50:46>> It definitely helped me out with this
1:50:48year.
1:50:48>> Yeah.
1:50:48>> And I think somewhere in my head, I
1:50:50always knew I was going to get caught to
1:50:52be honest with you.
1:50:54>> I was like, I've always been ready for
1:50:57this moment. That's why I've always told
1:50:59myself, if they catch me,
1:51:01>> there's no point in lying. Just be
1:51:03honest, you know, honor these people,
1:51:06you know, cuz
1:51:09>> All right. Well, we're going to finish
1:51:10up. The only other question I have and
1:51:12another detective at from that came up
1:51:13with me um mentioned it to me because I
1:51:17apparently someone had they thought they
1:51:19had seen a girl with you. Did you ever
1:51:21have a girl at the house that somebody
1:51:23could have possibly thought was Jamie or
1:51:25anything like in Tarpon Springs?
1:51:26>> Oh no.
1:51:27>> It was always just you and the kids. You
1:51:28never had a female over to the house.
1:51:31>> Like never brought a date home or
1:51:33anything like that. I mean
1:51:34>> the only thing I can think of is when I
1:51:37bought weed off of somebody off meet me.
1:51:39>> Mhm. But she didn't come in or you know,
1:51:41you can't have any like people come in
1:51:44the house when you got three dead bodies
1:51:45in the house. Um, but she was like
1:51:48pulled off on the side of the road like
1:51:51way down the way and everything when I
1:51:53picked up weed from her. So, I don't
1:51:55know where people were getting cuz I saw
1:51:57that on the news too where they were
1:51:59like where someone mentioned that uh
1:52:02son-in-law, grandkids, and daughter had
1:52:04come down to visit. In my head, I'm
1:52:06like,
1:52:08she definitely wasn't there.
1:52:09>> Yeah. And you never You said you tech I
1:52:12You said you texted with Laura's phone.
1:52:13You never called with with Rich's phone
1:52:16and talked to anybody and pretended to
1:52:18be him or anything like that.
1:52:19>> I couldn't unlock the phone.
1:52:21>> Oh, you couldn't unlock Rich's phone?
1:52:23>> Okay. But you never you never called
1:52:25anybody on any phone pretending to be
1:52:27rich. It was only pretending to be Laura
1:52:29through text messages.
1:52:30>> Yes.
1:52:30>> Okay. All right. I'm going to go just
1:52:32make sure that we have no other
1:52:33questions and then we're going to wrap
1:52:34it up. Sound good?
1:52:36>> Can you keep this?
1:52:38>> I will ask them. I can't make any
1:52:40decisions. This isn't my police
1:52:41department. I'm a guest. Okay.
1:52:43>> Please tell them I have PTSD with cold.
1:52:46>> I will tell them. Okay. You know, the
1:52:49the only issue is is, you know, safety
1:52:51factors. You know, if you were you don't
1:52:53you're not you're not suicidal or
1:52:55anything like that. You don't want to
1:52:56hurt yourself. Okay? Cuz that's usually
1:52:58the main reason they don't want to get
1:52:59blankets, especially in in jails. Okay?
1:53:02I will ask them. Can't guarantee
1:53:04anything. Okay. But I'll see what they
1:53:05say. I'll be right back.
1:53:14>> All right, Shelby. We're done.
1:53:17>> All right. Come on out. I'm going to
1:53:18walk you out.
1:53:19>> Okay.
1:53:20>> Hey, I appreciate your time. I
1:53:22appreciate you manning up.
1:53:24>> I am.
1:53:24>> I really do.
1:53:25>> I am sorry. You know, I know it's not
1:53:27worth jacking it. It's really not. But I
1:53:31didn't want to feel like this.
1:53:34>> And I am sorry.
1:53:36>> And they were all good people. They
1:53:38really were.
1:53:39>> Yeah. Like I said, you just made some
1:53:40horrible horrible choices. You know that
1:53:43we can't and unfortunately we can't undo
1:53:44it. We can't come back from them.
1:53:46>> Yeah.
1:53:46>> You know, but you know, for what it's
1:53:49worth, in my opinion, this is just
1:53:52solely my opinion.
1:53:54You're going to help people get closure
1:53:57as to what happened. And in my book, and
1:54:01this is just my opinion, it goes a long
1:54:03way. I mean, you're manning up for some
1:54:06horrible stuff, you know, and you said
1:54:09it yourself. I know it's horrible,
1:54:11you know, it's I mean, you said
1:54:13yourself, you know, they didn't deserve
1:54:15it, but things happen. You can't take it
1:54:18back. You know, like you said, you know,
1:54:20you can't take it back. So, all right.
1:54:22I'm gonna walk you out. Okay. Okay.
1:54:27Maybe you want to come back.

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Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to choose a caption track available on the video.

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YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, caption language selection, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.