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Col. Russell Williams — Serial Killer Vs. Brilliant police interrogation — Transcript

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0:00all right just to
0:04see guy I was speaking with on whatever
0:06night that was was Russ as well oh yeah
0:09took took every number I had yeah now
0:12they were doing some pretty thorough
0:13interviews that night yeah absolutely I
0:15was to see um I'm just going to move
0:17your gloves here that's a little
0:18microphone just to make sure there's
0:19nice and clear um as you can see here
0:21everything in this room is video taped
0:23and audio taped check uh you ever been
0:26interviewed by the police in a in a room
0:28like this before I have never been
0:29interviewed like this oh no okay no just
0:32get this set up
0:37here it's the closest
0:39to interview by NIS for top secret
0:42clearance oh yeah all right well again
0:45Russell I appreciate coming in an
0:47investigation like this I mean I'm sure
0:48you can appreciate it's been big news uh
0:51especially down Belleville way um and
0:54you know obviously our approach to cases
0:56like this is that uh uh we don't give up
0:58on somebody being live until we get
1:01evidence that they're not so um because
1:03of that we're treating Jessica's case as
1:05an emergent situation obviously um so
1:08we're we're fast forwarding things that
1:11we might normally take our time with um
1:13and that's why we're here on a Sunday
1:15afternoon so again I appreciate it um
1:19we're going to do a pretty thorough
1:20interview today okay um and the reason
1:23for that is because uh the last thing we
1:25want is to be calling people back again
1:27and again and again okay um so what
1:29we're going to do is we're we're going
1:30to go over a number of things and uh I'm
1:31going to explain what all those are to
1:32you okay
1:34um I'm a big coffee guy I don't know if
1:37you're a a coffee guy or I didn't want
1:39to drink in front of you so no I
1:40appreciate that all right go ahead I
1:42could uh definitely they black yeah
1:44they're just black with uh with
1:49sugar probably a little bit started your
1:51what sorry gum just piece of gum well
1:54there's not conser you want to toss it
1:55orever I appreciate
1:57that all right and again um like I said
1:59this interview is going to be very
2:00thorough um but again uh I have a simple
2:04rule when I talk to people it's uh I'm
2:05sure you're the same way I treat PE
2:07everybody with respect I ask they do the
2:09same for me um so what we're going to do
2:11is we're going to start off by uh going
2:13through um what your rights are okay
2:15just like everybody else okay um if you
2:18ever been read your rights before I'm
2:20sure you've seen on TV a whole bunch of
2:21times but that's usually the American
2:23version so okay I'll go over with you
2:24briefly okay um basically in Canada uh
2:27as you know I'm sure is uh we all have
2:29uh our rights guaranteed under the
2:31Charter of Rights and Freedoms okay now
2:33Russell just to avoid any confusion
2:35because people do get confused when
2:37they're talked to by the police is that
2:38uh um you're obviously not under arrest
2:40here today okay anytime you feel uh you
2:43want to leave here you feel free to do
2:44so the door is not locked teres will
2:46walk you down to Lobby anytime you want
2:47okay um if there's anything that comes
2:50up in our interview today Russell that
2:52uh that you feel you want to talk uh to
2:55a lawyer about um you just uh you just
2:57let me know okay and the reason for that
2:59I want to explain to you exactly what's
3:01going on here okay um Jessica uh Lloyd
3:06is um is one of uh four cases that we're
3:09currently investigating okay um and
3:12essentially what's happened is over the
3:14past uh U about four or five months y um
3:18there have been four occurrences like I
3:21said that we're looking into uh two of
3:23those occurrences occurred in September
3:24of 2009 um and very briefly they were up
3:28in the the Tweet area uh they involved
3:31uh somebody entering uh two different
3:32women's houses um in the evening hours
3:35and uh committing sexual acts okay uh in
3:40uh November of 2009 a young lady by the
3:43name of uh Marie France KO um my people
3:46yeah was found uh murdered in her home
3:49in Wright yeah and um we believe that
3:51there was a sexual component to that
3:53crime as well and um then most recently
3:57we have Jessica ly's disappearance okay
3:59so essentially when you're look at those
4:01kind of crimes we're looking at a number
4:03of different uh potential criminal
4:04charges right um we're looking at issues
4:07uh all the way from the most serious one
4:09which is first-degree murder uh
4:11kidnapping uh sexual assault um break
4:14and Enter with intent to commit sexual
4:15assault yeah um forceable confinement
4:18okay and uh so what I want to make sure
4:20you understand and this is what we've
4:22been doing with everybody we been
4:22talking to is that clearly when we find
4:25out who's responsible for one or all of
4:27those crimes uh they could be charged
4:29with one are all of those offenses okay
4:31whether it's you or whether it's anybody
4:32else right and that's why it's important
4:35that we uh make sure that people
4:37understand what they have to do and what
4:38they don't have to do when they're
4:39talking to us okay so as I said before
4:41any point today uh you feel the need you
4:43want to speak to a lawyer uh you let me
4:45know and uh we can take you to a room
4:47where you can do that in private okay
4:49okay um do you have your own
4:51lawyer I have a realy lawyer but don't
4:55have a lawyer all right um if at any
4:57point you want to make that call and you
4:59don't know who call uh we have a phone
5:01list of lawyers that are available to
5:03give you advice free of charge right
5:04over the phone okay so again if at any
5:06point today you want to take advantage
5:08of that you just let me know sure um is
5:10there any reason you want to call a
5:11lawyer now no okay um couple other
5:14fairly simple and straightforward things
5:16that you probably understand but again
5:18we go over them to make sure everybody's
5:19clear is that uh you don't have to speak
5:22to me today okay okay and the reason for
5:24that is because the law considers me to
5:26be what we refer to as a person in
5:28Authority okay probably SAR to what you
5:30may be considered to be on the base um
5:32and because of that I can be compelled
5:34to appear before any judge in the
5:35country basically to account for what
5:37takes place here today between you and I
5:39okay and that's the reason why
5:41everything's recorded because there
5:43can't be any more accurate record than
5:45that right so no understood um and the
5:48other thing I want to make sure you
5:49understand is that uh you know you
5:50mentioned a second ago about Miss KO um
5:53being one of your work Associates um so
5:56I don't know what's happened since
5:58November um on the the military side of
6:00things um but what we want to make
6:02people clear on is that uh if you have
6:05been spoken to by any person in
6:06Authority or any police officer about
6:07any of those cases um I don't want what
6:10they may have said to you to uh um make
6:13you feel influenced or compelled to say
6:15anything to me today okay whatever you
6:17might have felt influenced or compelled
6:18to say to them earlier you don't have to
6:20repeat it to me and you don't have to
6:21say anything further okay but obviously
6:22what you do say you know for the third
6:25time is being recorded right so um
6:27understood these first two attacks
6:29happened uh not that far from my place
6:31in well the second one did yeah we
6:33didn't even know the first one had
6:35happened but uh I understand that was
6:37reasonably close as well but the second
6:38one was uh was very close yeah so
6:41certainly at the time you did a uh my
6:44door to door yeah and uh within a couple
6:47of days probably the same night so I
6:48spoke with a couple P then okay um yeah
6:51and I'm I'm aware of that from looking
6:53at the different cases and essentially
6:56uh Russell in a nutshell that's what we
6:57wanted to uh to talk to you about okay
6:59okay um those four cases are of concern
7:02to us and um you know you've kind of
7:05almost hit the nail on the head about
7:07some of our issues that kind of uh make
7:09us want to talk to to Russell Williams
7:11okay um because essentially uh there's a
7:15a connection um between you and uh and
7:18all four of those cases would you agree
7:22geographically I drive past yes I would
7:25have to say there's a a connection yeah
7:28yeah and that's that's why um I'll be
7:30quite Frank with you that's why uh
7:32things kind of um uh evolved when uh the
7:35officers talked to you on Thursday night
7:37okay uh we kind of went from there
7:38because uh when I think you discussed
7:41with the fact that you were a uh a
7:44colonel at the base I was in uniform at
7:46the time so yeah so pretty obvious right
7:49um so essentially uh then the connection
7:51with Miss Kom um yeah was made um and I
7:55believe you're uh a door or two down
7:59from one of those two incidents TW Three
8:02Doors Down yeah yeah very close
8:04absolutely yeah exactly so uh those are
8:07some of the issues we want to discuss
8:08with you okay um so just getting back to
8:12uh these four incidents that we're
8:14talking about um maybe you could just
8:16give me a little bit of history as to uh
8:19your arrival in the uh in the base in
8:21Trenton when did you start working
8:24there Friday on the day I was um
8:36Friday on the day I was at home most of
8:38the time most of the day I had a start
8:39of a stomach flu okay in Ottawa or a
8:42tweet tweet in tweet okay yeah uh so we
8:46backtrack
8:48then
8:50so all day Friday you're at home Y and
8:54then what time do you leave to go to the
8:56base to sleep there on the Friday night
8:59um
9:03not sure probably just you know went in
9:05for just before bed uh they're probably
9:09left tweeted between 8 and N or so okay
9:12um and you get to the base and spend the
9:14evening there and get up for the 5:30 y
9:17okay that's right so we backtrack from
9:19there um you when did you arrive at your
9:22home uh at the cottage can I want I want
9:26to get confused between your home in
9:27Ottawa and the home so been in Tweed all
9:30week yeah uh the week prior
9:33now
9:36um yeah I think that's the case was in
9:40TW week flew Saturday headed to Ottawa
9:44Saturday night okay so um if you didn't
9:48have the stomach flu on the Friday what
9:50was your schedule that
9:52day okay
9:56um what would have been my schedule just
9:58a standard schedule office okay so uh
10:03office brief in the morning couple of
10:06uh couple of meetings I can't remember
10:09what the specifics were going to be okay
10:12so um Thursday night you slept at tweet
10:15are you yep all right and what did you
10:18do Thursday during the day Thursday
10:20during the day I was at the base
10:23again
10:26um I think it was a fairly standard day
10:28I can't recall exactly but
10:32uh yeah nothing I was not flying so I
10:35was at the base so I would have gone in
10:36ear in the morning back in the evening
10:38again okay do you remember what time you
10:40left the base that
10:47night I don't remember anything peculiar
10:50so I would say
10:53uh I don't know probably seven to nine
10:55somewhere in that range okay that's when
10:58you you left left the base yeah and what
11:00it was that's a 45 minute Transit 45
11:02minutes home okay okay now I'm not not
11:04going to walk you through November but
11:05I'm going to take you to a date that's
11:07probably pretty fresh in your mind uh uh
11:09the day that uh that Marie fron com um
11:12do you remember how you found out I do
11:14yeah I was sent an email
11:18um well as soon as the uh the op staff
11:21and the base learned they told me okay
11:25so I got an email I can't remember if it
11:27was late at night early in the morning
11:28it was certainly I saw thought uh I want
11:31to say first thing in the morning
11:32because I had just come back from Ottawa
11:34I was in Ottawa for
11:38um um a set of meetings on one of the
11:41days I can't remember what what day of
11:43the week we're talking about it but
11:45uh yeah no I mean obviously one of your
11:49people gets killed it gets your
11:50attention so absolutely I very much by
11:53that com and how did you know Marie
11:55France K I'd only met her once um
12:00she was on a crew I was on just after I
12:03got to the base okay so uh I can't even
12:06remember I think it was a one day trip
12:08uh I did a number of trips uh in Canada
12:11transporting
12:12um our um you know troops sort of first
12:15Lake out of Edmonton uh you know we tend
12:19to H Scotch them across uh until they
12:21get into the theater so any I I can't
12:24remember which trip it was but uh we did
12:25a number of them out to Edmonton just to
12:27to pick up the troops bring them to
12:28train and and then uh put a fresh crew
12:32on and cuz we'd fly open back in the
12:33same day so pushing the edge of that and
12:36uh fresh crew on they continue on after
12:38a couple hour delay okay do you know uh
12:42roughly when that happened that we were
12:44on the same crew the time you met or the
12:46one time there yeah it was soon after I
12:48got to the base so uh I I don't remember
12:51exactly but I would say in the first
12:53couple of months so August
12:55September okay yeah um now you got that
12:58email notifying that something had
13:00happened uh do you have uh any kind of a
13:03a clear recollection as to how your
13:05schedule was going that
13:08week well I can't remember what again
13:11what day that uh the message came in
13:14just a
13:15second
13:22um no I can't remember what day day of
13:25the week but I
13:26um I'm just think there was a whole
13:28bunch of activity spun up as a result
13:34obviously I can't remember the day of
13:36the
13:37week
13:42um I'm just trying to think through the
13:44news reports I
13:48read I'm sorry I can't remember what day
13:50that was but
13:55uh what I what we learned after the fact
13:58was that the um
14:00the MPS had
14:03leared uh of her death I think quite a
14:06bit after her body had been discovered
14:10okay
14:13so I think what have I'm sorry
14:22just okay so I think if I remember
14:25correctly the MPS learned
14:29that evening can't remember when
14:31obviously her body was discovered it was
14:33probably in the news reports but uh so
14:35they learned and then they passed it to
14:37offs that so they immediately passed it
14:39to me okay the MPS work for the wing
14:41operations officer so they go you know
14:43through their train of command and then
14:44as soon as the uh the duty to watch
14:46officer had that information she advised
14:48me okay um so again that that particular
14:53some others right right I'm sure it
14:55spread like wildfire absolutely um so
14:58that particular particular week uh do
15:00you have any recollection well for
15:02instance when you got the email uh do
15:05you remember where you were I was at
15:07home and tweet okay yeah um do you
15:09remember if that was a week that you
15:11were um reasonably stable in Trenton or
15:14how' you no I had been in Ottawa I had
15:17been in Ottawa earlier in the week uh
15:20for some meetings over in uh in gatau
15:22for one of the um actually for the c17
15:25acquisition I was Project Director when
15:27I was here in AA for that so just some
15:29Fallout stuff for that okay so I had
15:32been here
15:36um at some point in that week again I
15:39can't remember how the days all fell
15:41together but um I seem to remember that
15:45I got this word shortly after having
15:48come back from Ottawa seems to me it was
15:51the same week so if we were to uh to you
15:54know do a similar uh investigation in
15:56your background is there is there
15:58anything you think of that anybody may
16:00have misinterpreted or anything uh in
16:02your history that somebody might say
16:04Russell Williams uh absolutely did this
16:07no okay be very boring what's that it'll
16:11be very
16:12boring all right because essentially
16:14that's what I'm looking at is it uh
16:18um you seem like a very intelligent
16:20person I think you can see how um a
16:23surprise like that would U certainly s
16:26some alarm BS or investigation right
16:28okay
16:30um so the next thing we need to cover
16:32off is uh well I'll just ask you this
16:35straight out uh given the types of
16:36crimes for investigating uh do you get
16:38much chance to uh to watch television
16:41shows CSI things like that I do watch uh
16:45I prefer Law and Order but I do watch
16:47CSI occasionally is okay so you have an
16:49idea of obviously the forensic
16:50capabilities things like that are out
16:52there what would you be willing to give
16:55me today to help me um move past you in
16:58this inves
17:00ation what uh what do you need well um
17:04would you be willing to supply things
17:06like fingerprints blood samples things
17:08like that okay um Footwear Impressions
17:12yeah okay all right um I think that's
17:14what we're going to we're going to ask
17:16you to do all right now we have a
17:18process we have to go through to do that
17:19okay um and for the blood sample uh I
17:22don't take the blood sample we have
17:23specially trained officers that are
17:24trained to do that okay uh I'm going to
17:26step out and make sure they're still
17:27available
17:30can I assume you're going to be discreet
17:33that's possible yeah because
17:36uh you know this would have a very
17:39significant impact on the base if they
17:41thought you thought I did this well uh B
17:45Russell that's one of the reasons we're
17:46here on a Sunday afternoon um uh the uh
17:49the military certainly be of great
17:50assistance for to us especially in
17:53relation to miss kl's investigation so
17:55uh that's certainly one of the things
17:56that would end our decision to to give
17:58you a call at home home day and see if
17:59we could deal with this today okay so
18:01okay
18:07um cuz it's tough to undo the rumor mill
18:10once it gets
18:15started I appreciate that
18:18okay now that you've had some time to I
18:20I know we've been throwing a lot of
18:21things at you here but now you've had
18:22some time to to think about things um is
18:25there anything uh that you're concerned
18:27about um uh that Buckle swab matching in
18:30any of those four residences um is
18:34there I guess let me explain you when
18:37I'm get down here Russell okay um this
18:40is a significant investigation as you
18:41can as you can well imagine um that uh
18:45that DNA is going to be uh significant
18:47in our investigation both uh you know
18:50quite possibly to help you quite
18:51possibly to help us underst I don't know
18:53yet don't know what the result is yet
18:56um and I'll go back to the example gave
18:59you because it's a very similar uh issue
19:00I think um and you talked about the idea
19:04of discretion here okay uh you talked
19:06about the idea that uh um you know I
19:11think hopefully you appreciate the fact
19:12of how we approached you here yeah
19:14absolutely um and essentially uh we have
19:17no issues with that okay um we talked
19:20recently about you know the whole idea
19:22of any unusual sex acts of your history
19:25um but another thing can often happen in
19:27cases like this is that people um become
19:30concerned about uh um things like
19:33extramarital Affairs uh indiscretions
19:36along those lines um is there any
19:42contact that you may have had with any
19:43of those four women um that you may not
19:47want your wife to be aware of anything
19:49like that that we should know about to
19:51try and uh explain why if if your DNA is
19:55found it would help us understand why it
19:57may be there absolutely not
19:59okay can you think of any reason
20:03um why we would find your DNA in any of
20:05those residences let's let's focus on
20:07well for instance uh I believe let me
20:09just check the name there make sure I
20:11got the right address talking about the
20:12house it was just a couple of doors down
20:14from you there in in Tweed couple of
20:17Doors Down was Lori I don't know her
20:20last name I don't know maikati I don't
20:22even know what her last name is but
20:25uh there's the woman down the road
20:29Three Doors Down her name is glor I
20:31don't know her last name all right let
20:32me just make sure we're on the same page
20:39here uh my understanding is she lived at
20:41the 76 Coy Cove yeah so she would be the
20:43one the second one uh the second
20:47incident on your on your road there
20:48couple of Doors Down ever been in her
20:52house no we met her once I think the
20:56first summer
20:59um we were there
21:01so4 okay and that's what I'm getting at
21:03I I again this is a credibility issue
21:06right because I don't want to come and
21:08see you two weeks from now and say you
21:11know rest uh our CSI people in that
21:13house and uh are you familiar with how C
21:16uh DNA
21:18works I think broadly yes I would gu so
21:21um one of the challenges we have in 2010
21:24with DNA is has become so um precise
21:28that um I guess the best way to explain
21:31it is I can think back 15 years ago when
21:33I started in uh in violent crime
21:36investigation yeah um for us to get a
21:38DNA match the sample we had to find was
21:42um you know probably would have filled
21:44half of one of these cups you know cuz
21:46they destroy so much of the the sample
21:48in the testing um essentially DNA has
21:52become more and more precise to the
21:54point where when you and I walked in
21:56this room earlier today uh we could have
21:58sat down talked for 30 seconds walked
22:01out CSI officer could have come in 3 4
22:05days from now did some swabs here and he
22:08would have found your DNA and my DNA and
22:10probably a lot of other people's DNA
22:12sure um a little bit gross to think
22:14about but essentially uh you know as we
22:16talk um we you know a little bit
22:19aspirate comes out of our mouth that
22:21that contains our DNA or blood or our
22:23skin cells contain our DNA and that's
22:25what I'm getting at if you were ever in
22:26Lor's residence quite possibly quite
22:29innoc your DNA could be uh in that
22:32residence has there ever been a time
22:33you've been in there no okay um what
22:37about the other lady down the road on uh
22:40I hadn't even heard that name so no I
22:42don't I don't actually know who that was
22:44okay have you ever visited uh Marie
22:48France Como at her residence no okay all
22:51right um so you're quite positive there
22:52would be no reason why your DNA would be
22:54any of those three locations okay um did
22:58you know
22:59Jessica Lloyd even in passing for any
23:01reason no I didn't hear hear her name
23:03till it was on the news Okay the reason
23:06I'm asking that uh is because um I know
23:10you were asked that question on Thursday
23:12night and sometimes what we find and
23:15again this is one of those situations
23:16that can sometimes cause us to get in a
23:18lengthy investigation as somebody that
23:19maybe doesn't deserve it um but what
23:22what can happen sometimes is they you
23:24know somebody gets stopped by the police
23:25like you did and they uh they get asked
23:28that question and people when they're
23:31stopped by the police they can be
23:32nervous okay um so they blurred out an
23:34answer and then they start driving away
23:36and they go why' I do that because the
23:38problem is that once they uh get asked
23:41again then they feel compelled to
23:43maintain that
23:45answer for fear that if they change
23:47their answer somebody could find it you
23:49understand what I'm saying I do okay so
23:51I want to make sure that's not happening
23:52here I don't care what you said to the
23:53officers on Thursday night last week um
23:55if there's any uh communication or
23:58contact between you and Jessica Lloyd
24:00you've seen her picture right around
24:01town yeah ever seen her
24:04before I don't no I would say I have not
24:07okay all right all right and you
24:10mentioned something about uh doing some
24:12Renovations at your uh at your property
24:14and Tweed there um I think you said
24:16something earlier about tearing up
24:17carpet correct me if I'm wrong but oh
24:19yeah okay when did all that happen in
24:222014 or five okay any recent uh
24:25Renovations no okay all right
24:35just want to make sure I'm covering all
24:36the bases here
24:41um okay kind of Ti Do you have on your
24:48Pathfinder I think um I think they're
24:52toy do you know the brand name or sorry
24:55the um I don't sorry the make is Toyo
25:00yeah I don't know the model
25:04okay see read this up to you see if it
25:07rings a
25:13bell ever heard of uh does Toyo Open
25:17Country
25:18HTS sounds make any sense okay when did
25:21you have those tires put on your
25:24Pathfinder well it's the second version
25:26we've had of them so uh
25:30uh I think it might have been this past
25:32fall but they replaced other ones we'
25:35had on the
25:36same okay well Toyo I can't say that
25:39they were the same exactly the same
25:40model but uh our dealership here in OS
25:43say they're very popular for the
25:45Pathfinders okay and they were good they
25:47lasted a long time all right
25:51um I've had to you were talking about
25:55the the whole idea of the MPS uh helping
25:57us with our invest
26:00you have the same system as we do at our
26:01headquarters with the swipe cards um one
26:04of the things uh one of our
26:06investigators did is they made a call
26:07while I was talking to you there um
26:09because we were trying to work through
26:10that week of the uh the 23rd of November
26:13okay 23rd be in the Monday uh 24th being
26:16in the Tuesday okay um what what they've
26:19what they've told us is that um and I
26:22want to make sure I get this right is
26:23that uh on the
26:2623rd uh your swipe card was being used
26:28at the base okay okay uh on Tuesday 24th
26:32there was no use of your swipe card okay
26:34okay and then on the uh the following
26:36days uh the Wednesday Thursday Friday um
26:39there was what appeared to be average
26:40activity of your swipe card in the base
26:42does that make sense to you it does that
26:44that says that I was in Ottawa on the
26:46Tuesday okay do you remember where in
26:49Ottawa you were yeah I was in gatau with
26:52uh as I said meeting about the uh c17
26:56okay um now now again I want to be fair
26:59to you here we're going back two months
27:01um are you sure that would have been the
27:03uh the day you were in Ottawa
27:06well only because I wasn't at the base
27:09okay so I I can't remember honestly that
27:12that's the day I had the meeting in
27:13Ottawa but uh if I wasn't at the base it
27:16was CU I was here okay now if that is
27:19the day you had a meeting in Ottawa um
27:21do you remember being at the base on the
27:23Monday uh the 23rd and swiping your card
27:26in and out do you remember what you
27:27would have done that evening to to to
27:29get to Ottawa for that meeting like
27:31would it be
27:33uh I drove to Ottawa in the morning of
27:36the day of my meeting so if it was the
27:37Tuesday then I would have left uh Tweed
27:40it was a very foggy morning okay uh that
27:43morning and I drove in that morning okay
27:46so I would not have been at the
27:48base uh the day I was in Auto because
27:51the meeting started at 8:30 or something
27:54okay so you leave the base you would
27:55have went home to to your residents and
27:57tweet
27:59yep and then you left weeed in the
28:01morning and drove up to your meeting in
28:02Ottawa okay um you leave the the meeting
28:05in Ottawa is a daytime meeting evening
28:08meeting or do you remember uh yeah it
28:09was a a daytime meeting finished I don't
28:12know midf afternoon or so okay we had
28:14lunch and then finished I think uh my
28:17wife and I had dinner cuz she was here
28:19for work and then I had it back okay um
28:22well that's these are the kind of things
28:24I'm trying to draw out here that's
28:25helpful to us um do you remember where
28:27you had
28:29dinner uh well I don't remember exactly
28:32the restaurant but it was in Westboro
28:33cuz that's where our house was being
28:34built at the time so we had dinner you
28:37know in a restaurant that we would
28:40expect to be able to frequent uh once
28:41the house was finished okay remember how
28:44you
28:45paid uh one of us would have paid by
28:47MasterCard okay are you sure about that
28:50or pretty sure that's normally how we uh
28:54okay we pay for meals all right can't
28:55remember if it was me or my wife that
28:57paid but one of us okay and do you
28:58remember which restaurant it was again
29:00no okay all right and you see where I'm
29:03getting at right I mean that can be very
29:05helpful for us because we can track uh
29:08that issue right we can we can put
29:10somebody paying for a meal at of
29:12location was meeting with uh you know 15
29:14people or so that day so okay what time
29:17did the meeting
29:20end I would say between three and four
29:23okay and um are you sure that that's the
29:25same day you went out with your wife
29:31well I think so yeah cuz she was here
29:35and
29:37uh I think that was the day we went to
29:39this restaurant in WBUR yes okay um you
29:43finished dinner and you remember what
29:45you did that evening I would have driven
29:47back to tweet okay and you would have
29:51now again I I know we're talking two
29:53months ago here but do you remember
29:54specifically having dinner and then
29:56driving back to tweet or uh remember uh
29:59are you just guessing
30:02here no I'm not really guessing I mean I
30:05I believe that this night at this
30:07restaurant was following the meetings in
30:09Ottawa
30:10MH and I you know kissed my wife goodbye
30:14and headed back to tweet to go to work
30:16the next day okay um all right the uh
30:22the tires that you have on your truck
30:24right the reason I asked you about that
30:25is there is there any time I mean you
30:28recall where you were stopped um by the
30:31officers there yes okay did they explain
30:34to you what the significance house that
30:36was her house okay so you remember that
30:38location y do you remember what the
30:39crossroad was or I don't think there was
30:42a crossroad it's sort of just uh the
30:44south end of 37 okay um when you get
30:48stopped at that location has there been
30:51a time in the recent uh one or two weeks
30:54that uh your vehicle has uh left that
30:58road for any reason whatsoever have you
31:00driven into a field with your vehicle at
31:01all um for any reason you can think of
31:05no okay um cuz I want you to Rack your
31:07brain here this is important so is there
31:09anything you can remember doing that uh
31:12you
31:12know would it caused you to to uh drive
31:15off the road no at that section of
31:17roadway no that's my early uh that's the
31:20early part of the highway and um just
31:22head north it's about 30 minutes from
31:24there to
31:25uh probably 20 from there to to my house
31:29okay um would it surprise you to know
31:32that uh when the CSI officers were uh
31:35looking around her property uh that they
31:38identified um a set of tire tracks uh to
31:42the north of her property um looks as if
31:45the vehicle left the road and uh drove
31:48along the north tree line of of Jessica
31:51Lloyd's property okay okay um they took
31:54uh they examined those tire tracks M and
31:59uh they have contacts in the tire bus
32:02obviously tire tracks are a major source
32:04of evidence for us um shortly after um
32:08this investigation started they
32:10identified those tires as the same uh
32:13tires on your Pathfinder really
32:16yeah okay okay one of the other uh one
32:20of the other things that they do to try
32:22and identify the type of vehicle that
32:23may have left those tires well is they
32:25do two things they they talk to
32:26Witnesses okay
32:28um there was a uh female police officer
32:31that actually drove by that location uh
32:34that evening and recall seeing an SUV
32:37type vehicle in the field to the north
32:39of Jessica Lloyd's house uh consistent
32:41with a a Pathfinder okay maybe
32:43consistent with other things but
32:44consistent with
32:46Pathfinder um and they uh what they also
32:49do to try and identify the type of the
32:50vehicle is they look at uh what they
32:53call the wheelbase width okay cuz
32:55different Vehicles different makx models
32:57have wheel Ace width so they can take
32:58those two sets of tire tracks measure
33:01the distance between them okay and
33:03determine what the uh the width is sure
33:06and then they can enter that into a
33:07vehicle database and it will spit out
33:09the types of vehicles okay um your
33:12Pathfinders wheelbase with is very very
33:16close to the width of the uh of the
33:18tires uh that were left in that field
33:21okay um do you have any recollection at
33:25all of being off that road no was not
33:27off the road no
33:28okay all
33:30right Russell
33:33um is there anything you can think of
33:36let's go talk about Marie France comoo
33:38for a minute okay is there any reason at
33:41all you can think of that during our
33:45investigation obviously we're searching
33:48uh computers uh things like blackberries
33:51right electronic devices uh looking
33:54through houses for things that are in
33:56handwriting written notes Diaries things
33:58like that M um now I'm not a liberty to
34:01tell you what the content was but is
34:02there any reason at all you can think of
34:05why Marie France Kom would have
34:08specifically referenced you in some of
34:10her uh in some of her
34:13writings not at all
34:15no no absolutely not okay is there
34:19anything that she ever said to you that
34:21led you to believe that there might be
34:22something uh more than a passing
34:24interest with her towards you not at all
34:27no we spent you know one flight together
34:31talking I'd go back occasionally and
34:34talk no
34:36I if that's the case that's that's very
34:39surprising okay all right um you have
34:42any questions for me right now no okay
34:44I'm just going to step out and see how
34:45things are going okay I mean it is a
34:47Sunday but there's probably 60 70 people
34:49working on this file so there's a lot of
34:50things happening sure uh so let me go
34:52out and see what's happening and then
34:53I'll uh I'll come back in and we'll
34:55hopefully continue okay I told you when
34:58I came in here uh that I'm going to
35:00treat you with respect and I've asked
35:01you to do the same for me
35:04um we talked about the whole idea of how
35:07we've uh approached you here okay uh the
35:11trying to be as just readed as possible
35:13okay but the problem is Russell is every
35:16time I walk out of this room there's
35:18another issue that comes up okay and
35:20it's not issues that point away from you
35:22it's issues that point at you okay and I
35:24want I want you to see what I mean all
35:26right
35:30this is the Footwear
35:34impression of the person who
35:37approached the rear of Jessica Lloyd's
35:40house M on the evening of the 28th and
35:4329th of January okay all right now I
35:47want you to keep in mind that this is
35:49slightly smaller okay in scale okay okay
35:52all right that's not to scale that's the
35:54Footwear is actually bigger if you look
35:56here on the ruler you'll see that uh one
35:59in is just slightly smaller than an
36:01actual inch okay but this is the way it
36:02prints off on the computer
36:05yeah I'm going move this over so you can
36:07see what I mean all right CU essentially
36:09when you're dealing with Footwear
36:10Impressions um we have a gentleman on
36:13the op who's uh basically world-renowned
36:15his name is John Norman and essentially
36:18with Footwear Impressions uh you're in a
36:20situation where you're you're pretty
36:22much in the area of of fingerprints okay
36:26and essentially what we're talking about
36:28here is especially when you start adding
36:30in other pieces of of information that
36:33support uh an investigative position
36:39okay this is a photocopy of the boot
36:44that uh you took off your foot yeah just
36:46a little while ago okay now I'm not an
36:50expert in Footwear Impressions so I rely
36:51on the
36:53experts footware impressions are very
36:55much like uh like fingerprint compar
36:58okay you take a look at this print and
37:00again this is one print this person
37:02walked through there's several different
37:04prints to compare so we're going to get
37:06features off of one print to compare
37:07features off another print to
37:10compare these are
37:16identical okay your vehicle drove up the
37:20side of Jessica Lloyd's
37:22house your boots walked to the back of
37:26Jessica Lloyd's house
37:28on the evening of the 28th and 29th of
37:30January okay you want
37:33discretion we need to have some honesty
37:37okay because this is this is getting
37:39under control really fast
37:41Russell okay really really fast
38:00this is getting Beyond My
38:03Control all right I came in here a few
38:06hours
38:07ago and I called you the way I called
38:09you today because I wanted to give you
38:11the benefit doubt M but you and I both
38:13know you were at Jessica Lloyd's house
38:17and I need to know why
38:25[Music]
38:49I don't know to say that's well you need
38:52to explain it because this is the other
38:55problem we're having wrestle okay again
38:57these decisions are made by
38:59me right now there's a search warrant
39:01being executed at your residence in
39:04a so your wife now knows what's going
39:08on a search being executed that day your
39:11residence and lead and your vehicles
39:13been seized
39:15okay you and I both know they're going
39:17to find evidence that links you to
39:21these
39:23situations okay you and I both know that
39:25the unknown offender
39:28male
39:30May on Marie France combo's body is
39:34going to be matched to you quite
39:36possibly before the evening's
39:38over okay this is a major investigation
39:41the center of foric Sciences on call 24
39:44hours a day helping us with
39:47this your opportunity to take some
39:50control here and to have some
39:53explanation that anybody is going to
39:56believe if
39:58is quickly expiring
40:03mhm okay we're applying the
40:06investigators now applying for a warrant
40:09to search your
40:12office right these aren't decisions that
40:14we can say yes or no to this is a
40:16practical steps in an investigation like
40:21this and Russell
40:43Russell H listen me for a second okay
40:47when that evidence comes in when that
40:49DNA match when that phone rings and
40:51somebody knocks on this
40:54door your credibility is gone okay
40:58because this is how credibility works
40:59all right and I know you're an
41:01intelligent person and you probably
41:02don't need to hear this explanation but
41:03I also know your mind's racing right now
41:05okay because I've sat across a lot of
41:07people in your position over the years
41:09okay the bottom line is is that as soon
41:13as we get that that piece of evidence
41:15that solidifies it DNA okay as soon as
41:19the
41:20expert in Footwear Impressions the
41:22expert entire Impressions calls and says
41:25yes I an exam those and their match
41:30mhm it's all over because as soon as
41:33that
41:34happens where's your credibility where's
41:37your believability you're just another
41:40uh and again don't take this wrong okay
41:44but you can see if you step outside this
41:46room in your mind and imagine how people
41:49are going to view you okay if the truth
41:52comes out after the clear evidence is
41:56presented to you when you finally go
41:59okay I'm screwed now M what are we going
42:03to
42:11do
42:13Russell you know there's only one option
42:16what do you what do you what other
42:17option is there what's the
42:20option well I don't think you want the
42:23cold blooded psychopath option
42:29I might be
42:32wrong okay because don't get me wrong
42:34I've met guys who actually kind of
42:36enjoyed the notoriety got off on
42:39it got off on having that
42:42label Bernardo being one of them I don't
42:45see that in you if I saw that in you I
42:48wouldn't be back in here talking to you
42:49quite frankly
42:57but maybe I'm wrong maybe you got me
42:59fooled I don't
43:05know this is
43:09over and it can have
43:12a a bad
43:14ending where Jessica's parents
43:18continue to wonder where her daughter's
43:20lying
43:27and I don't know I mean obviously
43:29there's a huge search still underway and
43:31it'll
43:33continue it'll continue until her body's
43:39found that might even happen tonight for
43:41all I
43:45know once that
43:48happens then I don't know what other
43:50card you would have to play
44:00what are we going to do
44:36what are we going to
44:43do call me R please
44:48okay what we going do r
45:17is Jessica somewhere we can find her
45:20easily like is this something where I
45:22can make a call and tell somebody to go
45:23to a location and they're going to find
45:25her or is this something where we have
45:26to go and
45:28and
45:29uh take a
45:54walk which direction are we heading in
45:56here
46:43press maybe maybe this would help can
46:45you tell me what the issue is you're
46:47struggling with
47:13what C you're struggling with
47:56right
48:19it's hard to believe this is not
48:24new why is that
48:49why is it hard to believe
49:11it's just just hard to
49:17believe whose decision was it and we're
49:22going to find out the answer to this
49:23anyway but whose decision was it to ISS
49:26issue the uh the directive to the base
49:29Personnel that nobody had to speak to
49:31the police and to seek legal counsel
49:32before they were
49:37questioned my I don't think that was my
49:40understanding that Direction came from
49:42somebody that reports to
49:44you what do you think they're going to
49:46say Russ no no what do you think they're
49:49going to say all right and and let's
49:51let's step back for a second here okay I
49:55really don't think it benefits you or
49:57makes you look any better to start
49:58debating the little issues but that is
50:00news to me okay I have a legal officer
50:03that reports to me yeah who may have
50:05given that direction okay but that's the
50:07first time I've heard if that's true
50:09that's the first time I've heard that
50:10all right and that may be the case but
50:13how does it
50:17look
50:18right we're not even dealing with
50:20something that's really even evidence
50:22cuz it's not needed I mean when you have
50:24you have DNA and all this other stuff
50:26not even what was the direction I don't
50:28recall but it was something along the
50:30lines of of uh telling the people on the
50:32base that they didn't uh they weren't
50:35required legally to speak with police
50:36and they should seek legal counsel
50:38before they deci to speak but well if
50:40that was if that was actually said it
50:42would not have been to the base at large
50:44it it may have been to the individual
50:46the uh the boyfriend who is the suspect
50:50okay I understanding it went out to all
50:51Personnel no AB maybe maybe no only
50:53under your command I don't know okay
50:55that's fine see it that's fine now let's
50:58get back to the issue what's that so you
51:00talk about perception my only two
51:02immediate concerns from a perception
51:04perspective
51:06are what my wife must be going through
51:08right now
51:10yeah and the impact this is going to
51:12have on the Canadian Forces where do we
51:14go
51:33orse is there anything you want from
51:36me is there anything you want me to
51:39explain is there something missing that
51:41you're struggling with that I can shed
51:44some light on for
51:52you I'm struggling with how upset my
51:54life is right now
51:57BR what are you looking
52:07for I'm concerned that they're tearing
52:10apart my wife's brand new house so
52:14mine but if nobody tells
52:17them what's there what's not they don't
52:20have any
52:23choice computers will be brought to
52:25Microsoft in California they'll be
52:28they'll be picked apart you can't erase
52:31things from
52:33computers it doesn't happen I'm sure
52:35you've seen that I'm sure that's pretty
52:37common knowledge these days it just
52:38doesn't happen there's they sell
52:41programs that uh to try and help people
52:44clean their computers of stuff and our
52:47guys are pulling that stuff out all the
52:48time the FBI is pulling that stuff out
52:50all the time
53:00this
53:01investigation will end up costing no
53:03less than $10
53:07million
53:10easy and they will say no to
53:15nothing any
53:17request this major case manager makes on
53:19this case they've already been told it's
53:23approved don't even bother asking
53:56so so what am I do on
53:59r i put my best foot forward here for
54:01you
54:08butd I really have I don't I don't know
54:11what else to do to to make you
54:13understand the impact of what's
54:14Happening Here
54:34do we
54:37talk I want to
54:41um minimize the impact on my wife so do
54:49I so do we do that well we start by
54:53telling the truth
55:23okay okay
55:26so where is
55:49she
55:51get um is she close to where she lives
55:54I've got maps of that general area
56:01yeah which town is she near why don't we
56:03start
56:09there I'm not sure if you give me a map
56:12of um it covers calar down to the
56:18highway and over to
56:21Tweed and sou I'll show you let me see
56:25what I got here I might have something
56:28is she inside outside
56:57it's probably the biggest area I have
56:58there
57:00R yeah you need more you need a real map
57:03so where am I going on on here to get to
57:07her in this black here okay so you're
57:11point a detailed map of that area and
57:14I'll show you where she is okay is she
57:16close to a road yep all
57:19right um is it something where is she is
57:23she buried or is she somewhere where if
57:25you walk there you would you would
57:27fairly easily see her didn't see her
57:30okay so she's South the
57:327 uh East the Tweed West of 41 mhm and
57:38uh what's this road
57:39here not sure neither am
57:43I okay I'll be right back okay do you
57:45want any water or
57:47anything sure okay I'll be right
57:53back how long's she been there for
57:56[Applause]
58:01little over
58:02week was it fairly quick from the
58:05time she
58:07left Friday
58:09night Friday night y so where was she
58:12between Thursday night and Friday night
58:15in tweet with you
58:18y how long was she live for
58:26almost 24 hours not
58:28quite
58:30okay
58:32Russ you're doing the right thing
58:36here okay well again my interest is in
58:41uh making my my wife's life a little
58:44easier and her family as well but oh we
58:49share that any there's no uh your time
58:52in Auto was wasted really I'll tell you
58:54where the memory s cards are
58:57where are they they're in the house
58:59there
59:00but in Ottawa yeah
59:04whereabouts
59:06um some in the camera bag which they
59:08would have found in my office mhm and in
59:12the when you walk into the office on the
59:14left side there's a
59:17um uh dust of drawers drawers like a
59:22filing cabinet wooden Ikea
59:26in one of the top two drawers and
59:28there's a plastic divider
59:31yeah and there's
59:33a inside there there are two memory
59:36cards okay which are blank but I'm sure
59:39they can be
59:40re and whose images are on those
59:44cards uh well I've erased them but I
59:48expect uh you'll be able to draw images
59:52of uh Jess
59:54I what about about
1:00:03Marine there may be images on there as
1:00:06well okay and the two women from
1:00:10September yep okay do you have those
1:00:13images stored anywhere
1:00:19else y there are um two hard drives in
1:00:23the house in Ottawa
1:00:26I can draw you little picture if you
1:00:29like sure do you want to do that now
1:00:31while I'm getting them out
1:00:38okay you want anything to eat or
1:00:44anything that with you okay
1:01:04but I do want to talk to you
1:01:08again that's the plan
1:01:16okay I'll be right back
1:01:33how you make it out
1:01:38there thank
1:01:41you okay making out all
1:01:51right there somebody running around
1:01:53looking for an actual map but uh did the
1:01:56same thing with uh the Google Maps we
1:01:59have blew them up a little bit
1:02:01more
1:02:07um this is the this is the biggest of
1:02:10the
1:02:13area this might have better parameters
1:02:15for you there's tweet
1:02:17[Applause]
1:02:302.7 K from this intersection on this
1:02:35side and what road is that
1:02:38carry south of can't read that
1:02:42word uh East Hungerford does that make
1:02:47sense oh there it is there okay how far
1:02:50off the road is she 40t she if she
1:02:54covered with anything
1:02:57she's wrapped up she's on the surface
1:03:01just a gray
1:03:04Something cover
1:03:07okay bar the obvious question I'm going
1:03:09to have for you
1:03:11[Music]
1:03:13is when they go there and they'll be
1:03:15there shortly they're going to find her
1:03:17oh yeah okay I'll be right
1:03:22back you look like you want to say
1:03:24something just that the this place my
1:03:27wife it's been a dream
1:03:29for better part of a year so I'm Keen to
1:03:32get them what they need and so they can
1:03:34leave her alone okay well we're we're
1:03:36going to do our best to keep that as
1:03:37lowkey as possible okay what do you want
1:03:40to talk
1:03:44about it's uh pretty wide open now right
1:03:47yeah what do you want to know well do
1:03:49you want to work forwards or
1:03:53backwards doesn't matter
1:03:56why don't we start with
1:03:59Jessica how does that start for
1:04:04you
1:04:06um I saw her in her house on her
1:04:12trima wasn't stande I
1:04:16guess then I noticed she wasn't
1:04:20um there
1:04:24Thursday so I got into look
1:04:31around then
1:04:34um and the
1:04:36left notice she'd come
1:04:40home so I went back
1:04:45in through the uh back patio
1:04:49door while she was sleeping
1:05:07so I woke her
1:05:20up didn't um didn't hit her she only hit
1:05:24her once
1:05:26Friday
1:05:43night
1:05:51okay well so I raped her in uh in her
1:05:58house and then I took her to the car and
1:06:01took her to
1:06:14tweet and
1:06:19um spend the day in tweet
1:06:28and then I hit her um as we were walking
1:06:32she thought we were
1:06:37leaving h on the back of the
1:06:50head okay
1:06:56particular well um what did the hit on
1:06:59the back of the head
1:07:04do well I was surprised that uh her her
1:07:08skull gave
1:07:11way she was there and immediately
1:07:15unconscious and I strangle
1:07:18her
1:07:19okay what did you hit her
1:07:22with
1:07:24flashlight okay in the house or outside
1:07:27the house in the
1:07:31house yeah they'll find sign of
1:07:36that where in the house did this
1:07:39happen in the main portion just in front
1:07:41of the
1:07:42fireplace what do you mean they'll find
1:07:44signs of it oh it was quite a bit of
1:07:46blood I hadn't expected I expected to
1:07:49knock her
1:07:53out but obviously generated of
1:07:56blood what did she bleed on to the floor
1:08:00it's just tile floor okay did you clean
1:08:04it up or did you I I wiped it
1:08:07up I know it'll be easily spotted well
1:08:11makes you think
1:08:12that like if I walked in that house
1:08:15right now I see it you wouldn't see it
1:08:17not at all but uh yeah all right science
1:08:21we uh we'll show it I'm sure okay um
1:08:26so when that happened was she did she
1:08:28have clothes on or was she naked she was
1:08:30dressed okay so when we find her she
1:08:33going to have those clothes on too
1:08:36yeah all right
1:08:40um
1:08:42okay Marie France uh
1:08:53Kom there was an open window in the base
1:08:55basement of her uh her house when she
1:08:58was
1:09:00away I went in there um a couple of
1:09:02nights before she came
1:09:05home looked
1:09:10around I went back in there uh late at
1:09:13night when she was at
1:09:15home she's on the phone in her
1:09:23bedroom she actually discovered me in
1:09:26the
1:09:29basement she was trying to get her cat
1:09:31to come upstairs and the cat was in the
1:09:34basement had seen me and was fixated on
1:09:36me in the corner she couldn't get the
1:09:38cat up so
1:09:40uh she came downstairs trying to get the
1:09:43cat
1:09:44and I'm not weren't sure why
1:09:47she came over to me I guess the cat was
1:09:49staring at me and she was wondering why
1:09:51the cat was staring at
1:09:56BL
1:10:04R so when she spotted me I
1:10:08um had the same
1:10:11flashlight my subdued
1:10:16her tigh up upstairs
1:10:29and uh strangled
1:10:33her later in the
1:10:39morning well more suffocated
1:10:44her some
1:10:52tape left there
1:11:01how did you subdue her when you say
1:11:02subdued her in the basement what did you
1:11:05do well I had the same
1:11:08flashlight and
1:11:10um you
1:11:14know she she saw me right away so I was
1:11:18just uh hit her a couple of times and
1:11:21around her head try and knock her
1:11:24out did
1:11:26but um he was bleeding a little
1:11:33bit eventually
1:11:36um after a struggle subdued
1:11:43her okay any blood from from that
1:11:47struggle oh yeah no not not a whole
1:11:50bunch but uh flashlight did break her
1:11:55skin in a couple of
1:11:56times okay what area of the basement did
1:11:59that take place
1:12:02in I was hiding behind the furnace so
1:12:06she spotted me right there okay did she
1:12:09recognize you now I had stuff on my
1:12:15face
1:12:23okay um
1:12:26so you go upstairs and you said uh she
1:12:30suffocated well I suffocated her I put
1:12:32tape on her I put tape on her
1:12:36mouth and then I put tape on her nose
1:12:41and held it there so she couldn't
1:12:48breathe
1:12:50okay um what kind of tape was it 13
1:12:57what happened to
1:13:02it uh well I took it with me and
1:13:12uh can't can't remember what actually I
1:13:14did with that tape but uh probably threw
1:13:17in the
1:13:19garbage did you use tape for any other
1:13:22purposes
1:13:31okay um did she ever recognize you
1:13:34through this whole
1:13:35episode what did you say you had on your
1:13:40face I had just a a cover for my head
1:13:43just a you
1:13:45know Sports you pullover type like just
1:13:49a little cap kind of thing okay just a
1:13:55can't think you
1:13:56know wer or
1:14:00something and they
1:14:03um just a headband over my nose and
1:14:06mouth so covered most everything but my
1:14:09eyes
1:14:13Okay um now this flashlight where is
1:14:17that now tweet in the house yeah what
1:14:21kind of flashlight is it it's a red uh
1:14:24three
1:14:27I'm not
1:14:29sure what brand it is but it's a metal
1:14:31you know one these
1:14:33aluminum it's like a big
1:14:39um remember
1:14:41whatand you know aircraft
1:14:43aluminum flashlights already SE any it's
1:14:46a big bigger one of
1:14:48those um did you take anything out of uh
1:14:52Marie Francis house or Jessica Lloyd's
1:14:56house uh yeah some of their
1:15:00underwear okay that's all and where is
1:15:05that
1:15:12um it's in some
1:15:16boxes in the basement here in Ottawa in
1:15:19that rck
1:15:20room so we just moved in so they're
1:15:23boxes everywhere so on the same side is
1:15:25the furnace
1:15:26room s the back against the wall okay
1:15:30what do the other boxes look
1:15:35like um I think one's a scanner the box
1:15:38for my scanner
1:15:42mhm they're they're all right next to
1:15:44each other so quick look through the
1:15:46boxes there
1:15:49will okay how much underwear is in those
1:15:51boxes
1:15:56[Music]
1:15:59um probably 60 pieces or something to
1:16:03all
1:16:04women's yeah 60 pieces of
1:16:08theirs of who's of Jessica's and
1:16:13uh M
1:16:17FL so you took 60 pieces from between
1:16:20the two of them yeah okay ex so
1:16:25all right um and they're in a like when
1:16:27you talk about scanner is it a computer
1:16:29scanner box a computer scanner is up in
1:16:31the office and its box is down in the
1:16:33basement so okay it's inside that box is
1:16:37any of the underwear in those boxes
1:16:38belong to anyone other than Marie France
1:16:39or uh or
1:16:43Jessica
1:16:48um yeah there's some from each of the
1:16:51other two women okay
1:16:55uh why don't we talk about those two
1:16:56women um so the first one happened on
1:17:00the 16th and I don't know why can't
1:17:03recall their names but
1:17:06uh the lady that was uh live closer to
1:17:10you no already was closer to me
1:17:17okay so the first uh the first
1:17:22one I had just spotted her
1:17:26from our boat
1:17:30ashy I got into the house while she was
1:17:33uh asleep noticed that she was
1:17:41alone and
1:17:44um just hit her with my hand while she
1:17:46was
1:17:51sleeping subdued her
1:17:56mostly just my weight on top of
1:18:05her um had her take off her
1:18:10pajamas took some
1:18:13pictures took some of her underwear and
1:18:20left and the other
1:18:23woman same kind of you R through the
1:18:26back of the
1:18:30house she was sleeping in her um not in
1:18:33her bedroom but in her you know front of
1:18:36the
1:18:37TV very much the same
1:18:45story anything different about that
1:18:47story I you pretty much same story and
1:18:49exactly the same story or two different
1:18:50things right yeah no uh not much
1:18:53different at all um I did have the
1:18:57flashlight that time I H over the
1:19:00flashlight didn't thinking it would
1:19:02knock her
1:19:03out
1:19:04didn't
1:19:06so subdued her with my
1:19:10weight took off her clo took some
1:19:12pictures and
1:19:21left why do you think these things
1:19:23happen
1:19:39haveen you spent much time thinking
1:19:40about that about why
1:19:44yeah
1:19:49yeah but I don't have any answers
1:19:57and I'm pretty sure the answers don't
1:20:00matter let me let me ask you this did
1:20:02you like or dislike these
1:20:06women I didn't know any of
1:20:09them
1:20:10okay I had met Marie France that one
1:20:14time in that in her airplane okay no I I
1:20:19guess at when you're going through these
1:20:21things um
1:20:25are you would let let's talk about
1:20:27Jessica because she was there with you
1:20:29for the whole day right what kind of
1:20:32feelings were you experiencing while you
1:20:33were with her that
1:20:49day oh she was a very nice girl
1:21:03can you tell me why you killed her rest
1:21:06do you know why you killed her well I
1:21:08think I killed her because I knew that
1:21:20uh her story would be recognized
1:21:28her story will be recognized how do you
1:21:31mean well because she knew I was taking
1:21:35pictures
1:21:42mhm so because of the U two
1:21:48U stories and tweet
1:21:54that would have been a
1:21:56fairly
1:21:58yeah been quite
1:22:03obvious so if you didn't take pictures
1:22:06what would you have done
1:22:10mother I don't
1:22:12know I mean she's at your house
1:22:16right
1:22:18um oh let me ask you this is it
1:22:22uh two lived
1:22:25right and two
1:22:26die what's what was the difference in
1:22:29your mind
1:22:30between well the
1:22:32uh you know the attention the first two
1:22:37god
1:22:40um was very much F focused
1:22:44on
1:22:45obviously or for obvious reasons uh
1:22:48pictures I took
1:22:55so anybody else telling stories about
1:22:58pictures right would have
1:23:01been fairly straight
1:23:07line okay but when when this thing
1:23:10happened with Marie
1:23:12France it was was did you believe that
1:23:16you were already a suspect for what
1:23:19happened in tweet
1:23:22no so what if what were you concerned
1:23:28about well because
1:23:36um I was pretty sure that
1:23:40uh you know she was serving military
1:23:43right
1:23:45mhm it would have been
1:23:47uh it would have been difficult
1:23:50for investigators to
1:23:53ignore that
1:23:56connection
1:23:59okay yeah makes sense
1:24:05um let's go back to Jessica then okay
1:24:09um you see her on the Wednesday
1:24:12night okay on our treadmill M how do you
1:24:16see
1:24:17her is in the basement window wide open
1:24:21on a Trad now so drove by
1:24:27okay did did you stop to look at the
1:24:29house or how how does that catch your
1:24:32eye as you drive
1:24:34by well I was looking to see who was who
1:24:37is
1:24:39where don't know that area very well so
1:24:42I was just keeping my eyes
1:24:46open
1:24:48okay so you spot her on the Wednesday
1:24:51yeah um do you just keep on going or did
1:24:53you just stop and take a closer look
1:24:56that night or anything
1:24:58no okay and you went back on the
1:25:01Thursday night right
1:25:06yep so you go back on the Thursday night
1:25:09and you went you went into the house
1:25:11before she came
1:25:16home yeah she was
1:25:19out
1:25:22okay those
1:25:27um yeah she was out got in through the
1:25:31kitchen window it's unlocked everything
1:25:33else was
1:25:38locked okay so you're in there doing
1:25:43what looking around looking around to
1:25:45see who lived in the
1:25:48house it was just
1:25:50her
1:25:52okay and then what do you do
1:26:02well I left the
1:26:05house and
1:26:14uh and then she came
1:26:17home I had been out of the house very
1:26:21long so I watched for a little bit to
1:26:24see if she was
1:26:27alone she
1:26:39was when when she went back to sleep and
1:26:41she went to
1:26:45sleep okay so you go in she's sleeping
1:26:50and what do you do
1:26:55well I I snuck up to the side of her
1:27:01bed expecting to
1:27:06uh try to knock her
1:27:10out she woke
1:27:15up but she did as I
1:27:19said I didn't hit her what did you say
1:27:26said lie down on your
1:27:28tummy okay she did I tied her
1:27:32up what' you TI up with some roope P
1:27:39front so she's on her stomach how are
1:27:41you tying her up just tying her hands
1:27:44behind her back
1:27:46okay she got clothes on at that point
1:27:49mhm what kind of clothes
1:27:56right so tie your hands behind your back
1:27:58and then then what
1:28:00happens I took her clothes
1:28:06off
1:28:17okay and then what
1:28:21happened I raped her
1:28:27a rape could mean a lot of different
1:28:29things what kind of sexual act took
1:28:38place vagile and
1:28:42oral okay
1:28:45oral who was performing the oral
1:28:51sex um
1:28:54no me on her and her on me
1:28:59okay any uh any condoms used or anything
1:29:02like that no
1:29:05no so again correct me from wrong
1:29:09vaginal
1:29:11intercourse uh her play performing oral
1:29:14sex on you and you performing oral sex
1:29:15on her mhm do you remember what order
1:29:17those things OCC
1:29:19it
1:29:21yeah I uh
1:29:24started with the oral
1:29:30sex then I raped
1:29:33her and then later on I made
1:29:36her for moral sex on
1:29:39me
1:29:42okay anything any kind of conversation
1:29:44happening when this is going
1:29:48on yeah a little bit what was being said
1:29:57I threatened her before she
1:30:00uh before I had
1:30:04her perform roal
1:30:07sex what did you
1:30:09say well I put a zip tie around her
1:30:14neck I said
1:30:17uh that I would pull it if I didn't like
1:30:20what she would
1:30:21doing okay
1:30:26so she did what you told her to do mhm
1:30:29any issues there
1:30:31any reason to pull it
1:30:35no so do you remember if you ejaculated
1:30:39at that point or at any point um not at
1:30:42that point but later
1:30:44on okay so the oral sex finishes and
1:30:49then what happens next
1:30:56well I continued
1:31:01the to rape her and I had her put on
1:31:04some of her
1:31:07underwear took some pictures lots of
1:31:12pictures and then uh got her
1:31:17dressed walk back to the
1:31:20trip okay at what point did you decide
1:31:23that she was going to leave with
1:31:31you I'm not sure that wasn't
1:31:35um necessarily always the
1:31:40plan but at some point I was there
1:31:49for
1:31:51three 3 hours three
1:32:00good
1:32:04okay um do you remember the conversation
1:32:07about leaving was there any she say
1:32:10anything about that
1:32:11or what was she saying to you she was
1:32:19um certainly cooperative
1:32:31okay a Cooperative can mean a number of
1:32:34different things was she excited about
1:32:36leaving with you I don't want to be
1:32:37sarcastic but um oh no she just didn't
1:32:40put up too much of a fuss did she try
1:32:43and negotiate with you at all or
1:32:47know what did she say well I told her
1:32:50that I would uh let her go later on
1:32:58okay so when you take her out of your
1:33:01house is she is she still bound or yep
1:33:05how how was that done just uh hands
1:33:08behind her back okay what about her feet
1:33:11anything
1:33:12there no she was walking fre okay
1:33:17Barefoot or no no she had those brown
1:33:19sweed shoes on that had been reported
1:33:26okay so where does she sit in your truck
1:33:29when you get to the
1:33:30truck front seat past your side
1:33:35okay and where do you
1:33:37go straight to
1:33:39tweet straight to your house and tweet
1:33:41or straight to just the town straight to
1:33:43the house no stops anywhere no okay what
1:33:47time do you remember what time he
1:33:48arrived there
1:33:54I don't exactly but I'd say between 4:30
1:33:56and
1:33:585:30
1:34:01okay all
1:34:04right when you were uh when you were
1:34:06first there before she came home do you
1:34:09remember did anybody come to the door at
1:34:11all when you were in the house no
1:34:16okay no I think somebody had come home
1:34:18somebody had come to the house just
1:34:20before she did CU I thought it was her
1:34:22but then they left
1:34:24I was outside at the time did you see
1:34:27who that person was or what kind of
1:34:28vehicle they were in or anything no saw
1:34:31the lights they seemed it was her and
1:34:32then all of a sudden they left so I
1:34:35don't know what happened
1:34:36okay um where were you when that first
1:34:40vehicle pulled up in the back back here
1:34:44okay so you didn't have a view of the
1:34:46vehicle you could just tell that there
1:34:48was a vehicle there is that fair
1:34:51okay so you get home
1:34:54what 4:35 you
1:34:56say okay and then what
1:35:02[Music]
1:35:04happens uh well she um she just go to
1:35:07the
1:35:10bathroom and
1:35:12U had a quick shower
1:35:17washer and we went into my bedroom
1:35:26and to sleep a little bit she was tied
1:35:33up how was she tied up at that point
1:35:38the I put um tape over her eyes from the
1:35:43beginning so that's what she
1:35:46had
1:35:49okay when they find her is that tape
1:35:51going to be there or was it ever
1:35:53remember removed no I removed it okay
1:35:57what kind of tape thir tape all
1:36:03right the duct tape that you used
1:36:06where's the where's that
1:36:08role uh it's all gun but
1:36:12um I used it to I used the rest of it to
1:36:16U bind
1:36:18her on her
1:36:22body so so by all gone is it is it with
1:36:25the body now
1:36:28okay so you said who went to sleep when
1:36:31you came home you had a or she had a
1:36:33shower well we both got in I washed her
1:36:36off after she get to the
1:36:37bathroom we both went to
1:36:40sleep but she was tied up and I had tied
1:36:43the
1:36:44Rope you know so I could fall asleep a
1:36:47little
1:36:48bit she couldn't move it thatw can me
1:36:52up okay I'm trying to picture how that
1:36:54would be so the ropes tied to what on
1:36:56her just tied her hands behind her back
1:37:00okay and it and then the Rope just
1:37:03wrapped around me a couple of times so
1:37:05there was no slack okay do you remember
1:37:08how long you slept
1:37:10for not long maybe a couple
1:37:13hours do you know if she
1:37:16slept I don't
1:37:18know okay so you wake up and and it was
1:37:22they were up and down
1:37:24down so it wasn't 2 hours straight 2
1:37:27hours in bed but there wasn't much sleep
1:37:31just l in there
1:37:34probably so you wait you get up from
1:37:37that and what happens
1:37:43next
1:37:45um she had a
1:37:48seizure actually
1:37:55she felt it coming on and
1:37:59um because she'd had some
1:38:05before lasted
1:38:10uh quite a while got her
1:38:14dressed into the uh family room and
1:38:24anyway she
1:38:27U she recovered she got
1:38:31uh obviously
1:38:37stress but
1:38:41uh yeah
1:38:44probably probably went on for about 15
1:38:46minutes
1:38:57so how do you know she had them before
1:39:00she told me did she tell you why she
1:39:02gets them well she suggested it was
1:39:07stress yeah so she felt
1:39:09herself start to tense up
1:39:12and said she thought she was going to
1:39:14have a
1:39:21seizure you know so she was she was it
1:39:26was convulsions is what she was
1:39:29doing
1:39:32okay so she recovered from that yep she
1:39:36um stayed with her and talked her
1:39:38through it
1:39:41and make sure she
1:39:44didn't light her
1:39:48tongue okay
1:39:53and then what
1:39:55happened well then we had a little lie
1:39:57down right there CU she was obviously
1:40:03exhausted put a cover over her
1:40:06and went to
1:40:12sleep wait for an hour or
1:40:15so and I had told her um earlier that
1:40:19before I let her go I wanted to take
1:40:21some pictures of her and her
1:40:26underwear and
1:40:32uh have sex with
1:40:42her so after she'd had uh a rest for an
1:40:46hour or
1:40:49so I had her put on
1:40:57remember of different outfit she
1:40:59had I'm sorry put on a number of you
1:41:02know
1:41:05pairs panties's bra that she had okay
1:41:09taken from
1:41:13those so she put those on and I took
1:41:16pictures
1:41:21okay are you in any of these
1:41:24pictures
1:41:29Y what what kind of what kind of images
1:41:32are you
1:41:36in
1:41:44um well I'm with her
1:41:47there's on the hard drives you'll see
1:41:49there's video as
1:41:51well so there video of the
1:42:00um almost four hours I
1:42:05guess of
1:42:12what well of
1:42:19uh initially at her place of uh raping
1:42:23her
1:42:23[Music]
1:42:27and then
1:42:31uh yeah so I was running the
1:42:34video and then taking still pictures so
1:42:37the video pretty much covers
1:42:40everything did you use video at other
1:42:44places uh at uh mes as well okay and is
1:42:50that video on the hard drives y same
1:42:53type of
1:42:54uh activity
1:42:57y oh I didn't ever put on any
1:43:01stuff
1:43:04okay
1:43:06so Jessica poses for these pictures and
1:43:08there's videos and um and then what
1:43:17happens then um I got her dressed CU she
1:43:21thought she was leaving
1:43:26b
1:43:27e
1:43:31fruit and then as we're walking out
1:43:34struck her on the back of the
1:43:40head when did you decide to do that
1:44:00well I was uh pretty sure that I wasn't
1:44:03going to let her
1:44:04leave but
1:44:09um you know the idea of striking her on
1:44:13the head
1:44:14was developed in the
1:44:21afternoon and what was that strike
1:44:23supposed to accomplish in your mind what
1:44:25was the intent of of doing
1:44:27that well I thought I would be able to
1:44:30knock her out and then I was I was going
1:44:32to strangle
1:44:34her
1:44:36okay so when you actually do strike her
1:44:39what what's the
1:44:42result her skull gave way a little
1:44:46bit felt like and there was a lot of
1:44:49blood so I think that's what happened
1:44:53she was immediately
1:45:05unconscious and then I um strangled
1:45:11her how'd you strangle
1:45:14her uh the same
1:45:17rope just put it on her neck
1:45:20okay well she was um
1:45:27unconscious now what happened to the zip
1:45:30tie that was around her neck
1:45:36earlier I took it off
1:45:43uh around that I
1:45:49guess did you take it off before you put
1:45:51the Rope around her neck or or out after
1:45:53do you remember after she was
1:45:56dead oh okay so the zip tie was around
1:45:59her neck while you used the ropm okay
1:46:02did you leave the Rope around her
1:46:03neck no
1:46:06okay and how did you know she was
1:46:16dead she
1:46:21um now her body stop
1:46:28moving
1:46:31okay so what did you do after
1:46:35that I uh I bound her
1:46:38up
1:46:41to there's her fi position
1:46:55and uh cleaned up the
1:47:10floor no you say you bound her up is are
1:47:13you referring to the duct tape that you
1:47:14talked about earlier yeah okay so then
1:47:17what did you do
1:47:23I um put her in the
1:47:27garage it was very
1:47:33cold and then I went into the
1:47:37base
1:47:42okay why'd you go to the base pardon me
1:47:44why'd you go to the base cuz I was
1:47:48flying early the next morning okay so
1:47:51what time did you leave to go to the
1:47:52base
1:47:55I told you between 900 and 10 or
1:47:58so on the Friday night yep
1:48:02okay so you fly
1:48:07and then I drove home to
1:48:09[Music]
1:48:11otwa so which night would
1:48:14you Saturday night so you land uh
1:48:19and what time are you Landing 6 6:30
1:48:23okay in it did you go by the house and
1:48:25tweet on your way to AAR
1:48:29no um so you drove straight home to
1:48:32Ottawa what time did you get there at do
1:48:34you remember okay some time before
1:48:37midnight I can't quite remember but uh I
1:48:40think I went into the office first did
1:48:41some
1:48:45work so I think I get home to AO L just
1:48:48before midnight something like
1:48:51that I think
1:48:53not sure
1:48:55I I slept for a little bit in at the Tim
1:48:58Hortons in
1:48:59Brockville so it might be later I
1:49:01honestly can't remember when I got a but
1:49:04okay yeah midnigh is Saturday
1:49:21mhm so you home you're in Ottawa what do
1:49:25you do go go to bed or yeah stay up
1:49:29okay so then what do you do the next
1:49:35day well my wife and I did some stuff I
1:49:38can't remember what
1:49:40uh what was going on that
1:49:45day putting together the new
1:49:50house and I headed back to Tweed
1:49:53that name
1:49:56mhm there sorry
1:50:01um no I did I had uh I had Monday
1:50:06off that's right I had Monday off and
1:50:08then I was visiting uh one of the units
1:50:10in Ottawa on
1:50:12Tuesday so I didn't head back to tweet
1:50:14till Tuesday
1:50:16night okay
1:50:23so you get back to tweet and what
1:50:26happens
1:50:28next I took Jessica's body to that
1:50:33spot okay that happened on Tuesday
1:50:36night just his past Tuesday obviously
1:50:39okay do you remember what time that
1:50:43was it was pretty late it was uh
1:50:46midnight is I'd say between midnight and
1:50:491 on uh Wednesday
1:50:54morning
1:50:56okay
1:50:58um what made you decide to to measure
1:51:01that
1:51:02distance that 7
1:51:06km that's just the way I am
1:51:09numbers have to know the
1:51:12numbers
1:51:14okay and um how did you
1:51:19leave I just left her technically behind
1:51:22the um a fairly large
1:51:26rock is that duct tape still on her
1:51:30M um
1:51:32and what else is on
1:51:34her couple of towels wrapped around her
1:51:37head and uh the top and pants she was
1:51:41wearing
1:51:42jeans
1:51:45okay did you ever go back
1:51:48there
1:51:50no right
1:51:56um what other type of cleaning and
1:51:59things like that did you do anything
1:52:00else to kind of cover Your Tracks you
1:52:02can think
1:52:04of I vacuumed the house and I uh wiped
1:52:08the the floor wash the
1:52:11floor
1:52:13okay what about your truck you do
1:52:15anything with
1:52:17that just
1:52:19the wash today because it was a mess
1:52:25vacuum
1:52:34okay
1:52:38um so Marie
1:52:39[Music]
1:52:41France when did uh when did it first
1:52:44occur you had to go to her house
1:52:54uh probably in
1:52:58October October November not quite sure
1:53:01some that time
1:53:07frame and you you remember why you that
1:53:11you thought
1:53:12to um to do
1:53:20that uh well
1:53:24you know she had said she lived
1:53:27alone when the one time I met her
1:53:44mhm
1:53:48um just trying to understand why her
1:53:51versus you know the dozens of other
1:53:52other women you probably come across on
1:53:54a daily
1:54:00basis I don't
1:54:03know you
1:54:10know yeah I went out there when she
1:54:13wasn't home just to see where she
1:54:19lived when did you do
1:54:21that a couple of nights
1:54:25before had you know her
1:54:29address I is a another no role for the
1:54:33basement
1:54:35okay so when you go out there a couple
1:54:37of nights before do you remember what
1:54:39night that was when you were there first
1:54:44time I don't uh but I it was within two
1:54:49or three nights I
1:54:50think okay
1:54:53well no more than four anyway something
1:54:55like that and did you actually go into
1:54:57her house on that occasion or did you uh
1:55:00okay so what happened that night how did
1:55:01you how'd you get into her house this
1:55:04window on the side of the
1:55:05basement side window
1:55:09okay just a back step a bit how did you
1:55:12get to her house that that first night
1:55:14you went
1:55:15there I drove what did you
1:55:20drive uh
1:55:23I think I drove my
1:55:24truck
1:55:26Pathfinder do you remember where you
1:55:28parked
1:55:30it yep I parked it
1:55:34um a bit of a division in
1:55:36the residential areas there parked on
1:55:39another
1:55:41side 6 700 met away okay so not on her
1:55:45Street on a different street you
1:55:47remember what street you parked on no
1:55:49but it's actually might be the same
1:55:50street but there's an interruption in
1:55:51the street Street where there's a
1:55:53construction zone
1:55:55so there's a pathway in between so I
1:55:58think it's probably the same street okay
1:56:02so uh you go to her house and when you
1:56:06went there that night did you know that
1:56:07she was
1:56:11away uh I'm not sure if I knew entirely
1:56:14but I I I think I thought she was
1:56:17away
1:56:19okay is that based on her schedule or or
1:56:22How would how would you uh well my yeah
1:56:26cuz I fly with the squatter I have
1:56:28access to the schedule
1:56:30and okay it's a slightly different
1:56:32schedule she has but that's probably how
1:56:35I know you don't know for
1:56:40sure I think that's probably how I know
1:56:43okay so you go to our
1:56:45house and what do you do that night the
1:56:48first
1:56:50night what and
1:56:56uh make sure that she was living there
1:57:04alone and I'm sorry did you say I can't
1:57:07remember if you said how did you get in
1:57:09same same way about side basement window
1:57:13side basement window okay do you
1:57:15remember what kind of window it is like
1:57:16what made it uh well I just noticed it
1:57:19was well no the flashlight I could see
1:57:21that it was not locked it had been open
1:57:24slightly so I remove the screen slid it
1:57:27open when it
1:57:30okay so you go in and uh you're in her
1:57:33house figuring out she lives alone and
1:57:36uh do you do anything that
1:57:41night yeah I was playing with her
1:57:46uh underwear
1:57:52you mean playing with her
1:57:57under wearing
1:58:00it okay doing anything
1:58:08else I didn't didn't touch her
1:58:16stuff what do you mean you didn't touch
1:58:18your stuff I mean you touched your
1:58:19underwear but yeah yeah
1:58:22else okay did you take any of the
1:58:24underwear with you that
1:58:26night yeah a few
1:58:29pieces where did you find the underwear
1:58:31when you went
1:58:37it was it clean was it used or
1:58:43clean
1:58:45um anything else you can remember doing
1:58:48that evening that
1:58:49you no
1:58:52all
1:58:54right so um after that first visit did
1:58:59you return again before meeting up with
1:59:02her no
1:59:06okay so which day did you go to her
1:59:09house when she was
1:59:15there well the night before I went to
1:59:17Ottawa so I think that was Monday night
1:59:24all
1:59:24right um so let's walk through that what
1:59:27time do you think you got
1:59:30there about 11: or so probably 10:30 11
1:59:40okay y so she was on the phone in her
1:59:45room you could hear that uh from the
1:59:50backyard I got in through the uh side
1:59:54window the same basement window
1:59:58mhm how could you hear from the backyard
2:00:00what was uh just hear her on the
2:00:04phone from beside beside the house could
2:00:08hear through the walls that she was on
2:00:09the phone okay any idea who she was
2:00:13talking to or what she was talking about
2:00:14no could hear that
2:00:16wrong okay so you go in through the
2:00:18basement
2:00:19window and what are you wearing and this
2:00:22is
2:00:25happening
2:00:30um sweatshirt
2:00:34and Dockers I
2:00:36guess and the two pieces on my head
2:00:42okay and where are those two pieces
2:00:45now pieces that you wore on the
2:00:50head uh they're probably in my bag in um
2:00:54my luggage bag in Edison the
2:00:58bedroom what's your luggage bag look
2:01:00like it's
2:01:02a
2:01:04blue duffel bag type thing it's right
2:01:08beside the
2:01:09bed is it the only blue duffel bag in
2:01:11your bedroom
2:01:12mhm um and these pieces what do they
2:01:15look like
2:01:16again it's a blue
2:01:19headband okay standard blue
2:01:22you know winter
2:01:24headband and um
2:01:27black skull cap type thing any insignias
2:01:32or anything on them yeah there are but I
2:01:34don't know what they are the blue
2:01:36headband has something St
2:01:40U you stitched a name of some sort
2:01:43stitched on
2:01:44it and the uh skull cap has some sort of
2:01:48emblem on white emblem on the black I
2:01:50don't know what it is are they like
2:01:52sports emblems or company emblems or
2:01:56it's the
2:01:59manufacturers okay anything else in that
2:02:02blue uh duffel
2:02:05bag I think
2:02:07so is it full of of things other just
2:02:10just my clothes
2:02:13okay
2:02:16um so you go in uh do you remember what
2:02:19you had on your feet
2:02:24in the house there when you went to
2:02:26Marie France's
2:02:29house probably running
2:02:31shoes there wasn't snow on the
2:02:35ground so you go in and you're in the
2:02:39basement and uh where abouts in the
2:02:41basement are
2:02:45you um by the
2:02:48furnace okay and what are you doing what
2:02:51what uh what's your your what's your
2:02:52sort of plan at that point I was waiting
2:02:55for her to go to
2:02:56bed okay and how long did that take well
2:03:01she didn't CU then she came down looking
2:03:03for the
2:03:05cat all
2:03:08right and uh what happens
2:03:11next as I described I subdued her over
2:03:16the flashlight
2:03:22but
2:03:25essentially wrestled her to the ground
2:03:28and tied her
2:03:33up okay what did you use to tie her
2:03:36up same rope green
2:03:39rope it's in
2:03:41twed is it just green or like uh how
2:03:45long is this piece of
2:03:47rope it's probably um 20 ft
2:03:54it's a boat boat rope it's got some red
2:03:56specks in it I
2:03:58think okay is there lots of ropes and
2:04:01Tweed or is this probably the only
2:04:05rope no this uh they two two
2:04:11lengths two lengths of the same green
2:04:14rope and were they both
2:04:18used uh well I I only ever had one with
2:04:21me so I don't know if if I use the same
2:04:22piece both times or not but only two
2:04:26lengths of rope okay so you Tire tie her
2:04:30up how did you tie her up when you
2:04:32obiously do that okay and what is she
2:04:36wearing at that point she wasn't wearing
2:04:39anything to start
2:04:40with so when she came down to the
2:04:42basement she had no clothes on mhm she
2:04:45had some sort of a Shaw over her
2:04:47shoulder okay she immediately dropped
2:04:50when she saw me
2:04:52did she say anything when she saw
2:04:55you she did
2:04:58she called out you
2:05:03bastard okay and then what
2:05:08happened then I subdued her as I
2:05:10described by haering her with that red
2:05:14flashlight okay although there were more
2:05:18glan
2:05:19and glan and blows cut her skin but
2:05:23weren't doing much else okay she fell
2:05:26over and then I subdued her she
2:05:31Tri how did you tie her at that point
2:05:34like I know you used the Rope but what
2:05:36what did you tie her up like just told
2:05:39her to put her I pulled her hands behind
2:05:41her back and just tied her wrists
2:05:44together
2:05:46okay then then what happened after
2:05:49that then I took her upstairs
2:05:57did she go upstairs under her own power
2:05:59or did you carrier no she passed out um
2:06:03on the
2:06:05stairs and then I carried her
2:06:10up why do you think she passed
2:06:13out I expect
2:06:16to from the hits to her head
2:06:22so she carried up to where to her bed
2:06:25put her on the bed
2:06:28okay and then what
2:06:38happened
2:06:41uh well as I described I think
2:06:44I she's on the bed I raped
2:06:48her over a period of time
2:06:53and again just to be specific what what
2:06:55sex acts took place
2:07:00just your penis in her vagina yeah any
2:07:04condom used no did you ejaculate
2:07:09no did you rectly at any point with her
2:07:12no
2:07:15okay
2:07:18um but just before I forget you I think
2:07:21I asked you
2:07:22you don't mean to bounce around when you
2:07:24hear us but with Jessica I asked you
2:07:27about ejaculation you said you didn't at
2:07:29that point when did you ejaculate with
2:07:32Jessica
2:07:34um the second time or third time that I
2:07:38had
2:07:39her for moral
2:07:42sex and was that at her residence or
2:07:45yours hers okay any other times that you
2:07:49ejaculated with her no
2:07:53okay
2:07:55um when you ejaculated with Jessica did
2:07:58you use anything to clean up
2:08:01or no
2:08:05no what happened to the
2:08:09ejaculate she swallowed
2:08:13it um so getting back to Marie France
2:08:17it's just straight vaginal sex no condom
2:08:20no ejaculation is that right yeah
2:08:23okay um how long does that go
2:08:27for like how long where you engag in
2:08:30that
2:08:35activity uh
2:08:40well hour and a half 2 hours
2:08:43yes okay and then what happens
2:08:50next well as I described I suffocated
2:08:53her using um duct
2:08:59tape why did you decide to to do
2:09:10that well again because of the
2:09:14pictures I described to you it would
2:09:16have
2:09:17um it was going to be a pretty straight
2:09:20line back to Tweed
2:09:25okay but why why why did you decide to
2:09:27use that method versus something
2:09:41else I had
2:09:45uh thought about strangling her earlier
2:09:54that's on the
2:09:56video what
2:09:58is
2:10:01my
2:10:04well it was a short shortlived attempt
2:10:07cuz she struggled quite a
2:10:11bit then
2:10:14I decided that I needed to suffocate her
2:10:21so there's a short lift attempt at
2:10:24Strangler and what's on the video the
2:10:26Suffocation or the
2:10:28Strangling well just me putting my hand
2:10:30on her
2:10:37throat and then her responding yeah no
2:10:42surprise very
2:10:45aggressively okay any videos of the uh
2:10:50the Suffocation part or pictures of
2:10:55that um now you you mentioned that you
2:10:57brought the rope with you where did the
2:10:59doct take come from I brought
2:11:02it and what did you do with it
2:11:07afterwards I think it
2:11:10uh it state in
2:11:13tweet what color of duct tape are we
2:11:16talking about I know it comes in a
2:11:17variety of colors but great great
2:11:23um so
2:11:25before uh the Suffocation um obviously
2:11:29how long do you think you were with
2:11:31her from the point well how long do you
2:11:34think you were in that house from the
2:11:35point you went in that window to the
2:11:37point you
2:11:40left probably
2:11:43um 4
2:11:45hours okay so correct me if I'm wrong
2:11:49did you say you were got there at 11 11
2:11:52or around 11: I think that's right
2:11:57okay so you we left around 3: in the
2:12:03morning well I was in the basement for
2:12:06quite a while before she came down and
2:12:10she wasn't going to bed so I was
2:12:12probably in the basement for 30 40
2:12:14minutes
2:12:16okay
2:12:18so by the time
2:12:21she saw me it was probably closer to
2:12:25midnight all
2:12:27right um but I didn't have a watch on so
2:12:31I'm not
2:12:34sure any
2:12:44gloves I don't think
2:12:46so did you wear gloves with
2:12:49Jessica uh uh only to get in the
2:12:53house it's a very cold
2:12:57night and what about the two women in uh
2:13:00in Tweed
2:13:03not so while you're with Marie
2:13:07fron what kind of conversations are
2:13:09taking place anything in she said to you
2:13:12stick out in your mind no I take her
2:13:15mouth there's no
2:13:17conversation okay when did you tape your
2:13:20mouth
2:13:23as soon as I got her up to the bedroom
2:13:25why did you decide to do
2:13:26that because she was
2:13:33uh you know quite
2:13:37aggressive in what way I was confident
2:13:40she was uh would have screamed given the
2:13:47chance what way she did initially did
2:13:50she okay in the
2:13:53basement so in what way was she
2:13:54aggressive well just in you when she
2:13:59discovered me she was very vocal scream
2:14:03quite a
2:14:05bit until I subdued her so I expected
2:14:08she would scream again give him the
2:14:11chance
2:14:13okay do you remember how you left her
2:14:16residence
2:14:21back
2:14:22door patio
2:14:24door
2:14:26okay did you take anything with you that
2:14:30night some of her
2:14:33underwear anything
2:14:37else all
2:14:39right um did you do anything else to try
2:14:42and uh cover Your Tracks with me fron
2:14:55um well I had turned off my Blackberry
2:14:58before I left
2:15:01Tren put on that
2:15:07not do you remember trying to destroy
2:15:09any kind of evidence there or anything
2:15:11you thought may have uh produced
2:15:14evidence or anything I took her sheets
2:15:16off the bed and ran them through the
2:15:19laundry okay
2:15:23like the laundry where at in her house
2:15:26okay did you run them completely through
2:15:28did you wait for it to finish or no I
2:15:30just put them in and put a whole bunch
2:15:32of bleach in and let it go
2:15:36okay so the night you went to her house
2:15:39and got through at 11 you came from
2:15:43where like you said you left Trenton you
2:15:45turned off your blackberry
2:15:51did you talking about the base or you
2:15:52talking about uh where did you leave to
2:15:54go to her house well no I just turned
2:15:57off my Blackberry before I left the
2:15:58Trenton
2:16:00area um I would have left from the base
2:16:03after
2:16:05work all right when did you turn when
2:16:08did you uh what time do you think you
2:16:10turned your blackberry
2:16:14off well it's only a half hour drive to
2:16:17Brighton
2:16:19so yeah
2:16:22probably in the 9 930
2:16:25range do you remember what
2:16:28uh what time you would have turned it
2:16:30back
2:16:31on when I was back on the 4 One heading
2:16:34to Ottawa the next
2:16:35morning what time was that be
2:16:38so six plus or minus 30
2:16:41minutes okay so you leave her house
2:16:45three-ish no I think it was later than
2:16:47that so the 4 hours obviously was
2:16:52I think
2:16:54uh I think I went into about
2:16:5611 was in the basement for quite a
2:16:59while probably left her house closer to
2:17:024 4:30 somewhere
2:17:06there okay and where do you
2:17:11go uh I drove to Ottawa straight to
2:17:15Ottawa yeah did you go by your house and
2:17:17tweet or anything or did you just go
2:17:19straight or rout you
2:17:24took uh yeah 401 but from her place
2:17:30uh I think I went straight North on uh
2:17:33whatever the road is that goes straight
2:17:35through Brighton up to the 401 at the
2:17:37401 and headed
2:17:39east
2:17:41okay and so you're going
2:17:44to what's the meeting you're having that
2:17:46day in Ottawa remind me meeting on uh
2:17:49the c17 acquisition project okay and who
2:17:52ran that
2:17:53meeting the project manager Miss uh Sue
2:17:58hail
2:18:00okay is that the only meeting around
2:18:02that time period you would have went to
2:18:03on that issue with
2:18:05suale there wasn't like a weekly meeting
2:18:08or anything like that okay no this is
2:18:10sort of a
2:18:11quarterly all right
2:18:13[Music]
2:18:15um so the night you went the night this
2:18:19happened um where did you park uh that
2:18:24night as I said across the gravel little
2:18:28roadway probably it's probably the same
2:18:29road okay similar location to the first
2:18:33night y
2:18:35okay all right same same
2:18:41vehicle yeah truck
2:18:45okay all right um
2:18:51let's talk about uh the well seeing as
2:18:54we're going backwards in time here why
2:18:55don't we talk about the second incident
2:18:56in tweet
2:19:01um with uh Lori
2:19:04masotti one that's uh a 76 Cozy
2:19:13Cove how did you uh decide on
2:19:18her I knew she lived alone
2:19:24how did you know
2:19:27that she KN Three Doors Down and
2:19:32uh didn't know her but I knew she was
2:19:36pretty lone she had boyfriend
2:19:38and hadn't seemed to be hadn't been
2:19:48around you know uh
2:19:51looked in the window and she was
2:19:54alone so she she had a boyfriend but he
2:19:57wasn't too frequent okay well he was she
2:20:00told me that they were fighting so
2:20:02that's why he had been
2:20:05okay so
2:20:11um did you look in her house before the
2:20:14night that this this incident happened
2:20:16or when did you do that I've been in
2:20:19uh within the
2:20:22week only a couple of nights
2:20:25earlier what did you do that
2:20:30night I
2:20:33um I looked around to see if there
2:20:36any permanent signs of her boyfriend I
2:20:42guess took
2:20:45uh one or two pieces of underwear
2:20:55so
2:20:57okay so the night you go there um when
2:21:01the incident happens uh remember what
2:21:03time that
2:21:05was I was pretty late um I probably got
2:21:09into the house around midnight she was
2:21:11asleep on the couch though I didn't know
2:21:13that but I knew she was in
2:21:16there and how didd you get in
2:21:19sorry uh window in the back of the
2:21:22house was a
2:21:23little sun
2:21:26room was it just something you had to
2:21:28slide or or how did you get I remove the
2:21:31screen and uh slide it up
2:21:37okay so I got into the house and
2:21:41U she was asleep in front of the
2:21:49TV all right anything on your face that
2:21:51night yep same things okay the headband
2:21:56and the uh the C
2:21:58okay
2:22:00um what kind of clothes did you have
2:22:04on just dark
2:22:07sweatsh
2:22:08pants all right so she's asleep on the
2:22:12couch you're in there and then what
2:22:17happens we you been through this I know
2:22:20I struck her with the uh flashlight
2:22:23thinking it would knock her out it
2:22:24didn't we struggled I subdued
2:22:27her took some pictures left probably in
2:22:31the H
2:22:33about two and a half
2:22:38hours it's a pretty short description
2:22:40for two and a half
2:22:44hours
2:22:46well we talked a uh
2:22:54I told know I wasn't going to hurt
2:23:01her I um I told her that there were
2:23:05other guys in the house robbing
2:23:09her my job was just to control her
2:23:22what did she say to
2:23:25that she was
2:23:30scared worried she was going to be
2:23:32seriously
2:23:36hurt did she say that or did you just
2:23:38assume that oh no she said that she
2:23:45was she was worried she was going to be
2:23:47killed I said I'm not going to kill him
2:23:53what did you do with uh you said you
2:23:55took pictures of her um clothed
2:23:59unclothed uh both clothed ually and then
2:24:08unclothed are you any of those
2:24:12pictures I don't think so you just took
2:24:14them
2:24:16M what kind of camera are you using by
2:24:18the way what uh
2:24:22it's a digital
2:24:24sign you just have the one camera
2:24:28yeah and the video camera oh so they're
2:24:31two separate y some cameras take take
2:24:35video right um and where is the camera
2:24:38and the and the video
2:24:43camera
2:24:46tweet is it the only camera and video
2:24:49camera in that house
2:24:51yep
2:24:53okay all right
2:24:57um should you take pictures of her and
2:24:59how do you end up
2:25:01leaving like you
2:25:03uh I just told her to
2:25:09uh count or wait for
2:25:12U number of minutes before uh before she
2:25:17call the
2:25:18police okay
2:25:21and you to leave immediately or did you
2:25:22stay there for a while see what she was
2:25:24going to do or I
2:25:26left um and where do you go home
2:25:31straight home mhm okay did
2:25:34you did you wait to see if the police
2:25:37showed up or anything or
2:25:40no it's so what did you when you got
2:25:43home couple
2:25:45feet I went to
2:25:48sleep okay
2:25:50what' you do the next
2:25:53day went to work normal
2:25:56time okay couple hours
2:26:03later all right
2:26:08um do you remember how uh her clothing
2:26:11was
2:26:17removed uh well cuz her hands were tired
2:26:19behind her back I think I cut off her
2:26:21top and then pulled off her bottom what
2:26:24did you use to cut her
2:26:27top
2:26:32um I can't remember if it was a knife or
2:26:36like a folding exact knife for
2:26:38Leatherman or one of the
2:26:41two are these items that are in your
2:26:43house and tweet yep
2:26:46okay was there ever any other time you
2:26:49used a uh a knife to cut off clothing or
2:26:52anything else do you
2:26:54remember I cut off Jessica's top with a
2:26:58knife so her hands were tied behind her
2:27:02back that's all okay where's that knife
2:27:06which knife did you that was a Lea that
2:27:08was a leather tweet is it the only
2:27:11Leatherman in in tweet mhm okay
2:27:16um so on the 16th of September
2:27:20uh when you went in that night was that
2:27:22the first time you've been at her house
2:27:25y okay and why
2:27:28her just cuz I'd seen her
2:27:31and she was
2:27:34cute
2:27:36said okay so there was
2:27:39no um you didn't go into her house
2:27:42before that that night
2:27:44no all
2:27:47right um so you go in and how didd you
2:27:50get into her
2:27:53house side
2:27:56window the uh was not
2:28:00locked cut the screen slid the window
2:28:03curled
2:28:04in
2:28:06okay and uh what you're
2:28:10wearing same switch your dark bins in
2:28:14the same hat
2:28:17and
2:28:18okay uh
2:28:21uh and where do you find uh in bed
2:28:26sleep okay and what do you
2:28:29do stood over her for a while and I uh
2:28:34HIIT her on the left side of her head
2:28:36just with my
2:28:39hand just woke her up we
2:28:47struggled you know just play on her
2:28:55[Music]
2:28:56and very much like I described a little
2:28:59bit
2:29:00ago took off
2:29:03her pull her top
2:29:05down and took off her
2:29:08pants took some pictures
2:29:11left remember her saying anything to
2:29:14you yes what did she say
2:29:18you all kinds of things
2:29:22um you know she had
2:29:25a a young baby just uh next door the
2:29:30other room 8 months or
2:29:33so was obviously concerned about the
2:29:37baby concerned for herself I assured her
2:29:40I was not going to hurt
2:29:43her physically you know
2:29:54okay right um any underwear taken from
2:29:59or Lori yep both and where would they be
2:30:04located in
2:30:11Tweed and why are they in Tweed as
2:30:14opposed to uh um Marie FR and Jessica's
2:30:18underwear
2:30:29do you remember how much of their
2:30:30underwear you
2:30:33took
2:30:40um not very much from
2:30:42Lori did they know that you took their
2:30:45underwear I don't
2:30:47know you didn't discuss it with them or
2:30:49anything
2:30:54um so where and Tweed would their
2:30:56underwear
2:31:06be
2:31:12um in the um it's a laundry room area
2:31:20okay just between the house and the
2:31:22garage
2:31:30right where in that laundry are would
2:31:33they we kept there's a cupboard uh up
2:31:37top in a duffel bag what's a duffel bag
2:31:41look like it's a green army duffel bag
2:31:45are they all in the same duffel
2:31:47bag is there anything else in that
2:31:49duffel bag
2:31:53just
2:31:54anywhere
2:31:57okay
2:32:04um when these when these pictures uh are
2:32:08looked at um you talked about being a
2:32:10Marie Fran's underwear on the first
2:32:13night you went in did you take
2:32:14photographs of that Y what about anybody
2:32:17else's
2:32:18underwear yeah
2:32:21photos of you in their underwear mhm and
2:32:24where were those photos
2:32:31taken
2:32:34um well sometimes
2:32:43in this in in Mar France's case in her
2:32:48house the others in my
2:32:52house in tweet
2:32:55mhm so is this a matter you would take
2:32:57the underwear go back and and then at
2:32:59some point put the underwear on and take
2:33:02pictures what about Jessica's
2:33:09underwear uh
2:33:11she's only her
2:33:14friend so you don't have pictures of you
2:33:16and her her no
2:33:18okay all right
2:33:24um
2:33:26okay well I guess uh I just have a a
2:33:30couple of questions for you I mean I'm
2:33:32sure there's going to be more questions
2:33:33but I guess what's on my mind right now
2:33:35Russ is um what made you decide to to
2:33:39tell me this
2:33:47tonight mostly uh
2:33:50to make my wife's life
2:33:56easier is what you've told me tonight
2:33:59the
2:34:00truth
2:34:07yeah how do you feel about what you've
2:34:09done like what
2:34:30disappointing let me ask you this if
2:34:34um if this didn't come to the point it's
2:34:37at right
2:34:38now if for whatever reason you didn't
2:34:40end up on our on our radar so to speak
2:34:43uh do you think it would have happened
2:34:45again
2:34:54I was hoping not that I can't answer the
2:34:57question
2:35:00okay
2:35:02um not too much here Russ just a few
2:35:04details that wanted to cover
2:35:07off and specifically deing with Marie
2:35:10France
2:35:13um in the basement of her house uh
2:35:16there's a hole in the uh drywall
2:35:20do you recall how that
2:35:22happened
2:35:24whereabouts uh I don't know specifically
2:35:26but it's
2:35:28downstairs I don't remember that okay do
2:35:32you remember doing anything with her in
2:35:33the basement uh where you may have used
2:35:35some clothing or something to uh to
2:35:38secure
2:35:39her yeah I tied her up against one of
2:35:42the uh poles in the basement
2:35:47initially I went outside and put the
2:35:50screen back on and secured the
2:35:53window okay while she was tied to the
2:35:56pole yep and what was your thinking
2:35:58behind doing that at that
2:36:01point just to cover up how I'd come in
2:36:06okay um now by the time she's tied to
2:36:09that poll is that in the very initial
2:36:11few minutes kind of thing of the
2:36:12confrontation or that was shortly after
2:36:15I had subdued her and TI her up yes okay
2:36:18does she have the duct tape on her mouth
2:36:24yet I think probably okay the pictures
2:36:28we'll show
2:36:29it all right now in the upstairs
2:36:32bathroom by her bedroom there's uh looks
2:36:36like something's occurred in there
2:36:38remember that yep what happened there
2:36:41she had passed out on the bed and I had
2:36:44gone to look out the front window see if
2:36:47anybody was coming
2:36:49and
2:36:51uh she got up and closed the bedroom
2:36:54door and raced into the bathroom trying
2:36:56to uh get some of his
2:37:00attention but her mouth was taped and
2:37:02her hands were
2:37:04tied what did you do as a result of that
2:37:07well I just got in
2:37:10and some D her again and got got her
2:37:13back into the bedroom I didn't do
2:37:16anything just regain control of her
2:37:20okay if I remember correctly there's a
2:37:22bit there's a bit of blood in there do
2:37:23you know where that blood would have how
2:37:25that that would have occurred all the
2:37:26blood was
2:37:28from the initial hits as I was trying to
2:37:31subdue her okay her skin breaking with
2:37:35the blows to headed okay do you recall
2:37:38blood being in the bathroom no actually
2:37:41I didn't have the light on in there
2:37:43but doesn't surprise me
2:37:46okay um there's a pair of underwear in
2:37:49some socks on the floor of that bathroom
2:37:52that belonged to her do you remember how
2:37:54they got there remember seeing
2:37:58see what do you recall doing to her
2:38:01breasts it's pretty clear that there was
2:38:03some something happened to her breast do
2:38:06you remember what that might have been
2:38:09no I I certainly touched their breasts I
2:38:11didn't do anything to hurt them I
2:38:14remember that no
2:38:16okay all right um
2:38:21or now when I suffocated her she was on
2:38:25her her her front so may have been
2:38:30something there but what do you
2:38:33mean well she was lying on the floor in
2:38:35the bedroom as I suffocated her and
2:38:37obviously struggled may have been in
2:38:39there that something happened but I
2:38:41didn't do anything specifically to her
2:38:43breast okay so when you suffocator
2:38:46that's when you have the duct tape over
2:38:47mouth and nose and that's on the floor
2:38:50yeah and um then what happens after
2:38:55that well she died and I
2:38:59um and took the duct tape off her head
2:39:02and put her on the bed and covered her
2:39:05up with
2:39:07du okay and what was your thinking
2:39:09behind doing that
2:39:23um as you might expect your arrest uh
2:39:26certainly uh even now one of the Ottawa
2:39:29investigators mentioned to me that um
2:39:32there's a number of incidents that uh
2:39:34that have gone unsolved over the
2:39:38years can I I was get into that can I go
2:39:41to the washing quickly yeah I can get
2:39:43somebody to take you the washing okay

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