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Col. Russell Williams - Interrogation Part 2 — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:35okay
0:36okay so where is she
1:02get him out um is she close to where
1:06she lives i've got maps of that general
1:10area
1:14which town is she near why don't we
1:16start there
1:23i'm not sure if you give me a map of
1:26that covers calabar down to
1:29the highway and over to
1:32tweed and stuff i'll show you
1:36you see what i got here i might have
1:38something
1:40is she inside outside
2:06um
2:09it's probably the biggest area i have
2:11there for us
2:14we need a real map so where am i going
2:16on this uh i'm here to get to her
2:21in this block here okay so you're
2:24pointing to
2:25a detailed map of that area i'll show
2:26you where she is
2:28okay is she close to a road all right
2:32um is it something where is she
2:36is she buried or is she somewhere where
2:38if you walk there you would
2:39you would fairly easily see her okay
2:43so she's south of seven uh
2:46east of tweed west to 41.
2:50and what's this road here
2:53i'm not sure neither am i
2:56okay i'll be right back okay do you want
2:58any water or anything
3:00sure okay
3:06how long has she been there for
3:09[Applause]
3:13a little over a week was it fairly quick
3:16from the time
3:18she left friday night
3:23friday night yep so where was she
3:25between thursday night friday night
3:27in tweet with you yeah long was she
3:32alive for
3:39almost 24 hours not quite okay
3:44russ you're doing the right thing here
3:49okay well again am i interested in
3:54making my wife's life a little easier
3:58and her family as well
4:01we share that but there's no uh your
4:04time in ottawa's wasted really
4:06i'll tell you where the members of cards
4:08are
4:09where are they they're in the house
4:12there but
4:14in ottawa yeah whereabouts
4:17um some in the camera bag which they
4:21would have found
4:21in my office and in the
4:24when you walk into the office on the
4:26left side there's a um
4:31desktop drawers set of drawers like a
4:34filing cabinet wooden ikea
4:38in one of the top two drawers and
4:40there's a plastic divider
4:42yeah and there's uh
4:46inside there there are two memory cards
4:49okay
4:50which are blank but i'm sure they can be
4:52read yeah
4:53and whose images are on those cards
4:57uh well i've erased them but i
5:01expect you'll be able to draw images of
5:05jessica and i what about marie
5:16there may be images on there as well
5:20and the two women from september
5:24okay do you have those images stored
5:27anywhere else
5:32yep there are two hard drives in the
5:35house in ottawa
5:38i can draw you a little picture
5:42sure do you want to do that now while
5:44i'm getting them out
5:51do you okay anything to eat or anything
5:57leave that with you okay
6:17but i do want to talk to you again
6:21that's the plan okay
6:29i'll be right back
6:46how you make it up there
6:51thank you
6:54okay making up
7:04somebody running around looking for an
7:05actual map but uh
7:08i did the same thing with uh the google
7:10maps just to glue them up a little bit
7:12more
7:14um
7:20this is the this is the biggest of the
7:23area
7:26this might have better parameters for
7:28you here's tweet
7:30[Applause]
7:52south of can't read that word
7:55uh east hungerford does that make sense
8:00oh there it is there okay how far off
8:03the road is she
8:0440 feet she bare if she covered with
8:07anything
8:10she's wrapped up and she's on the
8:12surface
8:13just agree something right there
8:18okay barry the obvious question i'm
8:21gonna
8:22have for you is
8:26and they go there and they'll be there
8:27shortly they're going to find her
8:30oh yeah okay i'll be right back
8:35you know how you want to say something
8:37just that the
8:38this place my wife it's been a dream for
8:42better part of a year so i'm keen to get
8:45them what they need and so they can
8:46leave her alone
8:47okay we're gonna do our best to keep
8:49that as low key as possible okay
8:52what do you want to talk about
8:57because it's uh pretty wide open all
8:59right what do you want to know
9:01well do you want to work forwards or
9:03backwards
9:07doesn't matter why don't we start with
9:09jessica
9:12how does that start for you
9:17um i saw her in her house
9:22on her treadmill
9:25wednesday nights
9:30and i noticed she wasn't
9:33there thursday
9:37so i got in the house look around
9:45then and then left
9:50notice she'd come home
9:54so i went back in
9:59through the back patio door
10:02while she was sleeping
10:16okay
10:20so i woke her up
10:34didn't hit her she only hit her once
10:39friday night
10:58okay
11:05well so i raped her in in her house
11:12and then i took her to the car and took
11:14her to tweet
11:27and
11:33spent the day and tweet
11:41and then i hit her as we were walking
11:45she thought we were leaving
11:51hit her on the back of the head
12:03okay
12:09well um what did they hit on the back of
12:12the head too
12:18well i was surprised that her
12:21her skull gave way
12:24she was there and immediately
12:26unconscious
12:28uh strangler okay
12:33what did you hit her with flashlight
12:38in the house or outside the house
12:44yeah i'll find signs of that
12:49where in the house this happened in the
12:52main portion just in front of the
12:54fireplace
12:56what do you mean they'll find signs of
12:57it i was quite a bit glad i hadn't
12:59expected
13:00i expected to knock her out
13:06that obviously generated a lot of blood
13:09what did she bleed onto the floor it's
13:12just
13:13a tile for okay
13:16did you clean it up or did you i wiped
13:18it up
13:20i know it'd be uh easily spotted well it
13:23makes you think that
13:25like if i walked in that house right you
13:28would advise here you wouldn't see it
13:29not at all but
13:30uh yeah
13:36okay um so when that happened was she
13:40does she have clothes on or was she
13:41naked she was dressed okay
13:44so when we find her is she gonna have
13:46those clothes on too
13:49all right um
13:53okay marie france
14:00como
14:06there was an open window in the basement
14:08of her her house
14:10when she was away
14:13i went in there a couple of nights
14:15before
14:16she came home looked around
14:24i went back in there late at night when
14:26she was at home
14:28she was on the phone in her bedroom
14:37she actually discovered me in the
14:38basement
14:42she was trying to get her cat to come
14:44upstairs and the cat was
14:46in the basement that seen me and was
14:48fixated on me in the corner
14:50she couldn't get the cat up so uh
14:54she came downstairs trying to get the
14:56cat and
14:58i'm not sure why she came over to me i
15:01guess the cat was staring at me and she
15:03was wondering where the cat was staring
15:04at
15:08what's wrong
15:17so when she spotted me i
15:22had the same flashlight i subdued her
15:30tied her up not upstairs
15:41and strangled her
15:46later in the morning
15:52well more suffocated hurt
15:58some tape
16:06laughter there
16:13how did you subdue her when you say it's
16:15a deuter in the basement what did you do
16:18well i had the same flashlight and um
16:24you know
16:28she she saw me right away so i was just
16:30uh
16:31hit her a couple of times around her
16:34head
16:34try and knock her out didn't
16:38but it was bleeding a little bit
16:48eventually draw a struggle subduer
16:57okay any blood from from that struggle
17:00oh yeah no not not a whole bunch but
17:04the flashlight did break her skin a
17:07couple of times
17:09okay what area of the basement did that
17:12take place in
17:15i was hiding behind the furnace so she
17:18spotted me
17:19right there okay did she recognize you
17:23no i had stuff on my face
17:30okay
17:36um so you go upstairs
17:39and you said uh she suffocated
17:43well i suffocated her i put tape on her
17:45and i put tape on her mouth
17:49and then i put tape on her nose and
17:54held it there so she couldn't breathe
18:01okay um what kind of tape was it
18:10what happened to it
18:15uh well i took it with me and uh
18:25i can't can't remember what actually i
18:27did with that tape but
18:29probably threw in the garbage
18:33did you use tape for any other purposes
18:40nope okay
18:44um did she ever recognize you through
18:46this whole episode
18:49what did you say you had on your face
18:53i had just a cover for my head just to
18:56you know sports
19:00pull over tape like just a little cap
19:03kind of thing
19:04okay just uh liquor or something
19:13and they um
19:16just a headband over my nose mouth
19:20covered most everything but my eyes
19:26um now this flashlight where is that now
19:30tweet in the house yeah what kind of
19:33flashlight is it
19:35it's a red three double d
19:40i'm not sure what brand it is but it's a
19:43metal you know
19:44all these aluminum it's like a big
19:54you know aircraft aluminum flashlights
19:57already sealer
19:58anyway it's a big bigger one of those
20:01um did you take anything out of uh
20:05marie francis house or jessica lloyd's
20:07house
20:09uh yeah some of their underwear
20:13okay that's all from where is that
20:18um
20:25it's in some boxes
20:30in the basement here at ottawa in that
20:32rec room
20:34so we just moved in so they're boxes
20:35everywhere so on the same side as the
20:37furnace room
20:40sort of the back against the wall okay
20:42what are the boxes look like
20:48um i think one's a scanner the box for
20:51my scanner
20:55they're they're all right next to each
20:57other so quick look through the boxes
21:00there
21:02okay how much underwear is in those
21:04boxes
21:09um
21:13probably 60 pieces or something all
21:15women's
21:17yeah 60 pieces of theirs
21:21of hoops of jessica's and
21:28melissa
21:30so you took 60 pieces from between the
21:33two of them yeah
21:34okay excellent all right
21:38um and they're like when you talk about
21:40scanner is it a computer scanner box my
21:42computer's scanner is up in the office
21:44and its box is down in the basement
21:46so okay it's inside that box is
21:49any of the underwear in those boxes
21:50belong to anyone other than marie france
21:52or
21:53or jessica um
22:01yeah there's some from each of the other
22:03two women
22:05okay uh why don't we talk about those
22:08two women
22:09um so the first one happened on the 16th
22:13and i don't know why i can't recall
22:16their names but
22:17uh the lady that was uh
22:21lived closer to you no or it was closer
22:25to me okay
22:30so the first the first one
22:35i just spotted her
22:39from our boat ashland
22:43and got into the house while she was uh
22:46asleep
22:47knows that she was alone
22:54and just
22:57hit her with my hand while she was
22:59sleeping
23:04subdued her
23:09mostly just my weight on top of her
23:20head her take off her pajamas
23:24took some pictures took some of her
23:27underwear and left
23:33and the other woman same kind of deal
23:38going through the back of the house
23:43she was sleeping in her um not in her
23:46bedroom but in her
23:48front tv very much the same story
23:58anything different about that story oh
24:00yeah pretty much same story and exactly
24:02the same story or two different things
24:03right yeah
24:04no not much different at all um
24:08i did have the flashlight that time i
24:11hit over the flashlight
24:13and thinking it would knock her out
24:16didn't
24:18so i subdued her with my weight
24:24took off her clothes took some pictures
24:25and left
24:34why do you think these things happen
24:51have we spent much time thinking about
24:53that about why
24:55yeah yeah
25:02but i don't have any answers
25:09man i'm pretty sure the answers don't
25:11matter
25:13let me let me ask you this did you like
25:15or dislike these women
25:19i didn't know any of them okay
25:24i had met maddie found us that one time
25:27in that in our airplane okay
25:31now but i get i guess when yeah when
25:32you're going through these things
25:34um are you
25:38well let me let's talk about jessica
25:40because she was there with you for the
25:42whole day
25:42right what kind of feelings were you
25:45experiencing while you were with her
25:46that day
26:03oh she's a very nice girl
26:15can you tell me why you killed her right
26:18do you know why you killed her well i
26:21think i killed her because i knew that
26:22uh
26:33her story would be recognized
26:41her story will be recognized how do you
26:42mean
26:44well because she knew i was taking
26:50pictures
26:56so because of the two
27:02stories in tweed
27:07that would have been a fairly yeah
27:12been quite always
27:17so if you didn't take pictures what
27:19would you have done with her
27:24i don't know i mean she's at your house
27:27right
27:31well let me ask you this is it uh
27:35two lived right and two died
27:39what's what was the difference in your
27:41mind between
27:43well the you know
27:46the attention the first two god
27:53was very much focused on
27:57obviously or for obvious reasons
28:01pictures i took
28:07so anybody else telling stories about
28:10pictures
28:11right would have been
28:14a fairly straight line
28:21okay but when when this thing happened
28:23with marie franz
28:25it was was did you believe that you were
28:29already
28:30a suspect for what happened in tweet
28:33no so what were you concerned about
28:41well because um
28:50i was pretty sure that
28:54you know she was serving military right
28:58it would have been it would have been
29:01difficult for
29:03investigators to ignore that connection
29:10okay yeah makes sense
29:14um
29:18let's go back to jessica then okay um
29:23you see her on the wednesday night okay
29:26on our treadmill how do you see her
29:30cheers in the basement under wide open
29:33on a treadmill so drove by
29:39okay do you did you stop to look at the
29:41house or
29:43how does that catch your eye as you
29:45drive by
29:47um i was looking to see who was who's
29:50where
29:52don't know that area very well so it's
29:55just keeping my eyes
29:56open okay
30:02so you spot her on the way and say yeah
30:05do you just keep on going or did you
30:06stop and
30:07take a closer look that night or
30:09anything no
30:11okay and you went back on the
30:14thursday night right yep
30:19so you go back on the thursday night and
30:22you went you went into the house before
30:24she came home
30:30she was out okay
30:40um yeah she was out
30:43got in through the kitchen window it's
30:45unlocked everything else was locked
30:51okay so you're in there doing what
30:56looking around looking around to see who
30:58lived in the house
31:01it was just her okay
31:05and then what do you do
31:14well i left the house
31:18and
31:28then she came home hadn't been out of
31:31the house very long
31:35so i watched for a little bit to see if
31:36she was alone
31:41she was
31:52and then i went in and she went back to
31:53sleep punching went to sleep
31:59so you go in she's sleeping
32:02and what do you do
32:07well i snuck up to the side of her bed
32:14expecting to
32:20try to knock her out
32:24she woke up
32:29but she did as i said
32:33i didn't hit her what did you say
32:38does it lie down on your tummy
32:42okay she did i turn her up
32:46which tie her up with some rope
32:52so she's on her stomach how are you
32:54tying her up just telling
32:56you her hands behind her back okay
33:00she got clothes on at that point what
33:03kind of clothes
33:06sweats all right tie your hands behind
33:10her back and then
33:11then what happens i took her clothes off
33:22okay
33:30and then what happened
33:34i raped her
33:40our rape could mean a lot of different
33:41things what kind of sexual act
33:43took place
33:52and oral okay
33:56oral who was performing the oral sex
34:04um me on her and
34:08her on me okay
34:12any uh any condoms used or anything like
34:14that
34:15no no
34:19so again correct me from wrong
34:22vaginal intercourse uh
34:25her pla farming oral sex on you and you
34:27performing oral sex on her
34:29do you remember what order those things
34:30occurred
34:32yeah i
34:37started with the oral sex
34:43then i raped her
34:46and then
34:55anything any kind of conversation
34:57happening when this is going on
35:02yeah a little bit what was being said
35:09well i threatened her before she
35:10[Music]
35:14before i had her
35:17perform oral sex
35:20what did you say well i put a
35:24zip tie around her neck
35:27i said
35:31that i would pull it if i didn't like
35:32what she would do
35:35okay
35:38so she did what you told her to do
35:42any issues there any reason to pull it
35:48so do you remember if you ejaculated at
35:51that point
35:52or at any point um at that point but
35:55later on okay
35:58so the oral sex finishes and then what
36:01happens next
36:08well i continued to
36:15rape her and i had her put on some of
36:17her
36:18underwear took some pictures
36:22lots of pictures
36:26and then uh got her dressed
36:31back to the trip okay
36:34at what point did you decide that she
36:36was gonna leave with you
36:45i'm not sure that wasn't
36:48necessarily always the plan
36:54but at some point i was there for
37:03three three hours three and a half
37:13okay
37:17um do you remember the conversation
37:19about leaving was there any
37:22she say anything about that or what was
37:25she saying to you
37:26she was
37:33certainly cooperative
37:37okay
37:45a cooperative can mean a number of
37:46different things was she excited about
37:48leaving with you
37:49i mean i don't want to be sarcastic but
37:51um i don't know she just didn't put up
37:53too much of a fuss
37:55did she try and negotiate with you at
37:56all or
38:00what did she say well i told her that i
38:03would uh
38:05let her go later on okay
38:12so when you take her out of your house
38:13is she is she still
38:15bound or yep how is that
38:18done just uh hands behind her back
38:22okay a lot about her feet anything there
38:26oh she was walking through it okay
38:29barefoot or no she had those brown
38:32sweatshirts on that
38:34had been reported okay
38:39so where does she sit in your truck when
38:41you get to the truck
38:43front seat passenger side okay
38:48and where do you go straight to tweet
38:53straight to your house and tweet or show
38:54just the town
38:56no stops anywhere no okay what time do
38:59you remember what time you arrived there
39:06i don't exactly but i'd say between 4 30
39:09and 5 30.
39:12okay
39:15all right when you were
39:18when you were first there before she
39:20came home do you remember
39:22did anybody come to the door at all when
39:24you were in the house
39:29no i think somebody had come home as
39:31somebody to come to the house just
39:32before she did
39:34because i thought it was her but then
39:35they left i was outside at the time
39:39did you see who that person was or what
39:40kind of vehicle they were in or anything
39:43saw the lights they assumed it was her
39:44and then all of a sudden
39:46they left so i don't know what happened
39:48okay
39:50um where were you when that first
39:52vehicle pulled up
39:53in the back back here okay
39:58so you didn't have a view of the vehicle
39:59you could just tell that there was a
40:00vehicle there is that fair
40:02okay so you get home
40:06but 4 35 you say
40:10okay and then what happens
40:17uh well she should go to the bathroom
40:25a quick
40:27shower washer
40:31and we went into my bedroom
40:37and to sleep a little bit
40:41she was tied up
40:46how was she tied up at that point
40:52i put tape over her eyes from the
40:55beginning
40:57so that's what she did okay
41:02when they find her is that tape gonna be
41:04there or was it ever removed
41:10what kind of tape all right
41:17the duct tape that you used where's the
41:19where's that rule
41:21uh it's all gone
41:25i used it to use the rest of it to
41:29bind her on her body
41:35so by all gone is it is it with the body
41:38now
41:39okay so
41:42you said who went to sleep when you came
41:43home you had a her she had a shower
41:47well we both got in i washed her off
41:48after she get into the bathroom
41:51we both went to sleep but she was tied
41:54up and i
41:55tied the rope so
41:58i could fall asleep a little bit
42:05i'm trying to picture how that would be
42:07so the rope's tied to what on her
42:09just tied her hands behind her back okay
42:14and then the rope just wrapped around me
42:16a couple of times so
42:18there's no slack okay do you remember
42:21how long you slept for
42:23oh well maybe a couple hours do you know
42:26if she slept
42:29i don't know okay
42:32so you wake up and it was we were up and
42:35down
42:37so it wasn't two hours straight it was
42:39about two hours a bit but
42:42there wasn't much sleep just lying there
42:44probably
42:48so you wait you get up from that and
42:50what happens next
42:56um she had a seizure
43:02actually
43:07she felt it coming on and
43:12because she had some before
43:19lasted uh
43:23quite a while got her dressed
43:28into the family room and
43:36anyway she
43:40she recovered she got uh
43:44it was obviously stress
43:50but uh
43:55yeah probably probably went on for about
43:5815 minutes
44:09so how do you know she had them before
44:12she told me did she tell you why she
44:15gets them
44:16well she suggested the stress
44:20yeah so she felt herself started to
44:23tense up and
44:26said she thought she was gonna have a
44:27seizure
44:35you know so she was she was it was
44:39you know convulsions that's what she was
44:40saying
44:42okay so she was
44:46recovered from that yeah she
44:50stayed with her and talked her through
44:51it
44:54make sure she
44:57light her tongue
45:02okay
45:05and then what happened well then we had
45:09a little lie down right there because
45:10she was
45:11obviously exhausted
45:16put a cover over her
45:20went to sleep
45:26wait for an hour or so
45:29and i had told her earlier that before i
45:32let her go i wanted to take some
45:35pictures of her in her underwear
45:44and
45:46have sex with her
45:56so after she'd had the rest for an hour
45:59or so
46:03i had her put on
46:10remember the outfit she had
46:13i'm sorry put on a number you know pears
46:18pennies bra that she had got taken from
46:22theirs
46:26so she put those on and i took pictures
46:30okay
46:34are you in any of these pictures
46:40yep
46:43what kind of what kind of images are you
46:45in
46:54um
46:57well i'm with her there's
47:00on the hard drives you'll see there's
47:02video as well
47:05so there's video of the um
47:14almost four hours i guess
47:18i have what
47:25well of uh
47:32initially at her place of raping her
47:40and then
47:44yeah so i was running the video
47:47and then taking still pictures so the
47:49video pretty much covers everything
47:53did you use video at other places
47:57uh to manage analysis as well
48:02you know is that video on the hard
48:03drives
48:05same type of uh activity
48:09yeah oh i didn't ever put on any
48:12stuff okay
48:17so jessica poses for these pictures and
48:21there's videos and
48:23then what happens
48:30then i got her dressed because she
48:34thought she was leaving
48:41fruit
48:45and then as we were walking out struck
48:47around the back of the head
48:52okay when did you decide to do that
49:13well i was pretty sure that i wasn't
49:15going to let her leave
49:17but
49:24the idea of striking her on the head was
49:28developed in the afternoon
49:34and what was that strike supposed to
49:35accomplish in your mind what was the
49:38intent of
49:39doing that well i thought i would be
49:42able to knock her out and then i was
49:44i was going to strangle her
49:47okay so when you actually do striker
49:51what's the result
49:55her skull gave way a little bit
50:00felt like there was a lot of blood so i
50:02think that's what happened
50:05she was immediately unconscious
50:19and then i strangled her
50:24how'd you strangle her
50:27uh same rope just put her on her neck
50:32okay well she was
50:38unconscious
50:41now what happened to the zip tie that
50:42was around her neck earlier
50:49i took it off
50:56around that i guess
51:02did you take it off before you put the
51:04rope around her neck or after or do you
51:05remember
51:06after she was dead
51:10oh okay so the zip tie was around her
51:11neck while you use the rope
51:14did you leave the rope around her neck
51:17no
51:18okay and how did you know she was dead
51:35well her she stopped moving
51:42okay so what did you do after that
51:48i uh i bound her up
51:55there's her field position
52:07and cleaned up the floor
52:24don't you say you bound her up is are
52:25you referring to the duct tape that you
52:26talked about earlier
52:27yeah okay so then what did you
52:35i put her in the garage
52:40it was very cold
52:47and then i went into the base
52:51okay
52:55why'd you go to the base heard me why'd
52:57you go to the base
52:59because i was flying early the next
53:01morning
53:02okay so what time did you leave to go to
53:05the base
53:08well i told you that between nine and
53:10ten or so
53:12on the friday night yep okay
53:16so you fly and
53:20then i drove home.
53:25so which name would you saturday night
53:29so you land uh and what time are you
53:33landing
53:34six six thirty okay did you go buy the
53:38house and tweet on your way to ottawa
53:40no um
53:43so you drove straight home to ottawa
53:46what time did you get there you remember
53:48sometime before midnight i can't quite
53:50remember but
53:52i think i went into the office first did
53:54some work
53:58so i think i get home dot a lot just
54:01before midnight
54:04i think i'm not sure i
54:08i slept for a little bit at the tim
54:10hortons in brockville
54:13so it might be late right honestly
54:14remember when i get out of it
54:16okay yeah midnight ish
54:22saturday
54:34so you get home here in ottawa what do
54:37you do
54:38go to bed or yeah stay up okay
54:42so then what do you do the next day
54:48my wife and i did some stuff i can't
54:51remember what uh
54:54what was going on that day
54:58putting together the new house
55:03then i headed back to tweed that night
55:10sorry um
55:14no i didn't i had i had monday off
55:19that's right i had monday off and then i
55:21was visiting
55:22one of the units in ottawa on tuesday
55:26so i didn't head back to tweet till
55:27tuesday night
55:32okay
55:35so you get back to tweet and what
55:38happens next
55:42i took jessica's body to that spot
55:46okay that happened on tuesday night
55:50just this past tuesday obviously okay do
55:53you remember what time
55:54that was it's pretty late it was uh
55:58midnight ish i'd say between midnight
56:01and 1
56:03on wednesday morning
56:07okay um
56:11what made you decide to to measure that
56:14distance
56:15that point seven kilometers
56:19that's just the way i am numbers
56:22i have to know the numbers okay
56:27and um how did you leave her
56:33i just left her took me behind a fairly
56:36large rock
56:39is that duct tape still on
56:43um her what else is on her
56:47a couple of towels wrapped around her
56:49head
56:51and the top and pants she was wearing
56:54jeans
56:56okay
56:59did you ever go back there
57:03all right
57:09what other type of cleaning and things
57:11like that did you do
57:12anything else to kind of cover your
57:14tracks you can think of
57:17i vacuumed the house and i wiped the
57:21floor
57:22washed the floor okay
57:27what about your truck did you do
57:28anything with that
57:30just the wash today because it was a
57:34mess
57:36vacuum okay
57:47um
57:51so marie franz
57:54when did when did her first occur to you
57:57to go to her house
58:07well uh in october
58:11october november not quite sure the
58:13summer in that timeframe
58:20and do you really remember why that you
58:23thought to
58:25um to do that
58:34uh well you know she had said she lived
58:38alone
58:40when the one time i met her
58:57um
59:01just trying to understand why her versus
59:04you know the dozens of other
59:05women you probably come across on a
59:06daily basis
59:13i don't know
59:24and i went out there when she wasn't
59:26home just to see where she lived
59:32when did you do that a couple of nights
59:35before
59:38how did you know her address
59:42all right this is a nominal rule for the
59:45basement
59:46okay so when you go out there
59:50a couple of nights before do you
59:51remember what night that was you were
59:53there first time
59:58i don't uh but i it was within two or
1:00:01three nights i think
1:00:04okay probably well no more than four or
1:00:06anything
1:00:07like that and did you actually go into a
1:00:10house on that occasion or did you uh
1:00:12okay so what happened that night how did
1:00:14you how did you get into her house
1:00:16this window on the side of the basement
1:00:18sidewinder
1:00:20okay just the back step of it
1:00:24how did you get to her house that that
1:00:26first night you went there
1:00:28i drove what did you drive
1:00:34uh i think i drove my truck
1:00:37what kind of finder did you remember
1:00:40where you parked it
1:00:43yeah i parked it
1:00:47a bit of a division in the residential
1:00:50areas there i parked it on another side
1:00:54it's like 700 meters away okay
1:00:57so not on her street on different street
1:00:59remember what street you parked on
1:01:01no but it's uh actually might be the
1:01:02same street but there's an interruption
1:01:04in the street
1:01:05where there's a construction zone so
1:01:08there's a pathway in between so i think
1:01:11it's probably the same street
1:01:13okay so uh you go to her house
1:01:16and when you went there that night did
1:01:19you know that she was away
1:01:24i'm not sure if i knew entirely but i i
1:01:28think i thought she was right
1:01:30okay is that based on her schedule or
1:01:34or how would you know uh
1:01:37well my yeah because i fly with the
1:01:40squadron i have access to the schedule
1:01:41and
1:01:43i can say a slightly different schedule
1:01:45she has but
1:01:46that's probably how i know you don't
1:01:49know for sure
1:01:53i think that's probably how you okay
1:01:56so you go to our house and what do you
1:01:59do that night
1:02:01the first night i
1:02:04looked around and
1:02:10make sure that she was living there
1:02:12alone
1:02:17and i'm sorry did you say i can't
1:02:19remember if you said how did you get in
1:02:21same same way side
1:02:25basement window side basement window
1:02:27okay do you remember what kind of window
1:02:28it is like what made it uh
1:02:30well i just noticed it was the
1:02:33flashlight i could see that it was not
1:02:34locked it had been opened slightly
1:02:38so i removed the screen so that it
1:02:39opened
1:02:41okay so you go in and uh
1:02:45you're in her house figuring out she
1:02:47lives alone and
1:02:49do you do anything that night
1:02:54yeah i was playing with her
1:03:00underwear
1:03:04you mean playing with her underwear
1:03:11wearing it okay
1:03:15doing anything else
1:03:22i didn't touch her stuff
1:03:29what do you mean you didn't touch your
1:03:30stuff i mean you touched your underwear
1:03:32but
1:03:32yeah something nothing else
1:03:36did you take any of the underwear with
1:03:37you that night
1:03:40yeah a few pieces where did you find the
1:03:43underwear when you went in
1:03:51was it clean was it used for cleaning
1:03:57um anything else you can remember doing
1:04:00that evening
1:04:01yeah no
1:04:04all right
1:04:08so um after that first visit
1:04:12did you return again before meeting up
1:04:14with her
1:04:15no okay
1:04:19so which day did you go to her house
1:04:22when she was there
1:04:28well the night before i went to auto so
1:04:30i think that was monday night
1:04:34all right all right
1:04:38so let's walk through that uh what time
1:04:40do you think you got there
1:04:44about 11 or so probably 10 30 11.
1:04:52okay
1:04:54so she was on the phone in her room
1:04:58you could hear that from the backyard
1:05:04i got in through the side window
1:05:08the same basement window
1:05:11how could you hear from the backyard
1:05:13what was uh just your hair on the phone
1:05:17front beside me inside the house
1:05:20you could hear her through the walls
1:05:21that she was on the phone okay
1:05:24any idea who she was talking to or what
1:05:26she was talking about no
1:05:29okay so you go in through the basement
1:05:31window
1:05:33what are you wearing when this is
1:05:34happening
1:05:38um
1:05:44sweatshirt
1:05:47dockers i guess and the
1:05:51two pieces on my head okay
1:05:56where are those two pieces now pieces
1:05:59that you were on the head
1:06:04uh they're probably in my bag in my
1:06:06luggage bag and
1:06:08it is in the bedroom
1:06:11what's your luggage bag look like that's
1:06:14a
1:06:16blue duffle bay type thing
1:06:20what's right beside the bit is it the
1:06:23only blue duffel bag in your bedroom
1:06:25um and these pieces what do they look
1:06:28like again
1:06:30it's a blue headband okay
1:06:33standard blue you know winter headband
1:06:37and black
1:06:41skull cap type thing
1:06:44any insignias or anything on them yeah
1:06:46there are but i don't know
1:06:48the blue headband has something
1:06:50extensive
1:06:53you know stitched a name of some sort
1:06:55stitched on it
1:06:58and the skull cap has some sort of
1:07:00emblem on white emblem on the black
1:07:03i don't know what it is are they like
1:07:05sports emblems or
1:07:06company emblems or it's the
1:07:09manufacturers
1:07:12okay anything else in that blue uh
1:07:15duffel bag
1:07:21is it full of of things just just my
1:07:23clothes
1:07:24okay um
1:07:29so you go in uh remember what you had on
1:07:32your feet
1:07:36in the house there when you went to
1:07:38marie france's house
1:07:42probably running shoes there wasn't snow
1:07:45on the ground
1:07:49so you go in and you're in the basement
1:07:52and whereabouts in the basement area
1:07:58um by the furnace
1:08:01okay and what are you doing like what uh
1:08:03what's your what's your sort of
1:08:05plan at that point i was waiting for a
1:08:07little bit
1:08:10okay and how long did that take
1:08:13well she didn't then she came down
1:08:15looking for the cat
1:08:19all right and
1:08:22uh what happens next well
1:08:25as i described i subdued her
1:08:28give me the flashlight
1:08:34but essentially
1:08:39wrestled her to the ground and tied her
1:08:41up
1:08:46okay and what did you use the tie rod
1:08:49same real green rope it's in tweed
1:08:54is it just green or like uh how long is
1:08:58this piece of rope
1:09:00it's probably um 20 feet
1:09:06it's a boat boat bro it's got some red
1:09:08specks in it i think
1:09:11okay is there lots of ropes and tweed or
1:09:14is this probably the only
1:09:16rope no this uh
1:09:20there are two two lengths
1:09:25two lengths of the same green rope and
1:09:28were they both used
1:09:31uh well i finally ever had one with me
1:09:33so i don't know if i used the same piece
1:09:36both times or not but only two lines are
1:09:39up
1:09:40okay so you tire tire up how did you tie
1:09:43her out
1:09:44when you obviously do that okay
1:09:48and what is she wearing at that point
1:09:50she wasn't wearing anything to start
1:09:52with
1:09:54so when she came down to the basement
1:09:55she had no clothes on
1:09:57she had some sort of a shawl over her
1:09:59shoulder
1:10:00okay she immediately dropped when she
1:10:02saw me
1:10:04did she say anything when she saw you
1:10:09she did she called out you
1:10:14bastard
1:10:16okay and then what happened
1:10:21then i subdued her as i described by
1:10:24hitting her with that red flashlight
1:10:28okay although they were more glancing
1:10:32glancing blows cut her skin but
1:10:35weren't doing much else okay she fell
1:10:39over and then i subdued it
1:10:41she tripped
1:10:44how did you tie her at that point like i
1:10:47know you used the rope but
1:10:48where did you tie her up like
1:10:51just told her to put her like pulled her
1:10:53hands behind her back and just
1:10:55tied her wrists together okay
1:10:59and then then what happened after that
1:11:02then i took her upstairs
1:11:09did she go upstairs under her own power
1:11:11or did you carry her
1:11:13no she passed out on the stairs
1:11:19and then i carried her up
1:11:23why do you think she passed out
1:11:26i expect
1:11:29from the heads to her head
1:11:35to carry it up to where she were better
1:11:37put her on the bed
1:11:39okay and
1:11:42then what happened
1:11:52uh well
1:11:55as i described i think i um
1:11:58on the bed i raped her
1:12:01over a period of time
1:12:05okay and again just to be specific with
1:12:08what sex acts
1:12:09took place just vaginal
1:12:13your penis in her vagina yeah any condom
1:12:16use
1:12:18did you ejaculate
1:12:22did you exactly to any point with her no
1:12:26okay um
1:12:31but just before i forget you i think i
1:12:33asked you
1:12:35don't mean to bounce around and hear us
1:12:36but with jessica
1:12:39i asked you about ejaculation you said
1:12:41you didn't at that point when did you
1:12:42ejaculate with jessica
1:12:45um the
1:12:48second time or third time that i had her
1:12:53for a moral sense and was that at her
1:12:56residence or yours
1:12:58hers okay any other times that you
1:13:02ejaculated with her
1:13:09when you ejaculated with jessica did you
1:13:11use anything to clean up or
1:13:16no
1:13:18what happened to the ejaculate
1:13:22she swallowed it
1:13:26um so getting back to marie france
1:13:30it's just straight vaginal sex no condom
1:13:32no ejaculation
1:13:34is that right yeah okay um
1:13:38how long does that go for like how long
1:13:42were you engaged in that activity
1:13:48uh cup well
1:13:53i don't have two rz okay
1:13:57and then what happens next
1:14:03well as i described i suffocated her
1:14:06using
1:14:07duct tape
1:14:13why did you decide to do that
1:14:23well again because of the
1:14:27as i pictures here it would have
1:14:31it was going to be a pretty straight
1:14:32line back to tweet
1:14:37okay but why why why did you decide to
1:14:40use that method
1:14:42versus something else
1:14:55i had
1:14:58thought about strangling her earlier
1:15:07that's on the video what is
1:15:11my uh
1:15:14well
1:15:17it was a short short-lived attempt
1:15:20because she struggled quite a bit
1:15:24and then i
1:15:28decided that i needed to suffocate her
1:15:34so the short-lived tempest strangler and
1:15:38what's on the video the suffocation or
1:15:39the strangling
1:15:41well just me putting my hand on her
1:15:43throat
1:15:50and then they're responding
1:15:54no surprise very aggressively
1:15:59okay any videos of the
1:16:02suffocation part or pictures of that
1:16:08um now you mentioned that you brought
1:16:10the rope with you where did the duct
1:16:11tape come from
1:16:13i brought it
1:16:16and what did you do with it afterwards
1:16:21i think it uh
1:16:24did it stayed in tweet what color
1:16:28of duct tape are we talking about i know
1:16:29it comes in a variety of colors but
1:16:30great
1:16:32great um
1:16:36so before uh the suffocation
1:16:40um obviously how long do you think you
1:16:42were with her
1:16:45from the point well how long do you
1:16:46think you were in that house from the
1:16:48point you went in that window to the
1:16:49point you left
1:16:54probably four hours
1:16:58okay so correct me if i'm wrong did you
1:17:02say you were they got there at 11
1:17:05or around 11 i think that's right
1:17:08okay so you they've
1:17:12left around three in the morning
1:17:17well i was in the basement for quite a
1:17:18while before she
1:17:21came down and she wasn't going to bed so
1:17:24i was probably in the basement for 30-40
1:17:26minutes
1:17:27okay so
1:17:31by the time she saw me it was probably
1:17:35closer to midnight
1:17:38all right um
1:17:42but i didn't have a watch on so i'm not
1:17:43sure
1:17:48any gloves i don't think so
1:18:00did you wear gloves with jessica
1:18:03uh only to get in the house
1:18:06it's a very cold night
1:18:10and what about the two women in uh in
1:18:12tweed
1:18:14douglas so while you're with
1:18:18marie franz what kind of conversations
1:18:22are taking place you
1:18:23anything and she said do you stick out
1:18:24your mind no
1:18:26no i taped your mouth there's no
1:18:29conversation
1:18:31okay when did you tape her mouth
1:18:35as soon as i got her up to the bedroom
1:18:37why'd you decide to do that
1:18:40because she was
1:18:47you know quite aggressive
1:18:51in what way i was confident she was
1:18:54would have screened given the chance
1:19:01what wait was she did initially did she
1:19:04in the basement so in what way was she
1:19:07aggressive well justin
1:19:09you know when she discovered me she was
1:19:13very vocal screamed quite a bit
1:19:18until i subdued her so i expected she
1:19:21would scream again given the chance
1:19:25okay do you remember how you left her
1:19:28residence
1:19:33back door door
1:19:37okay to take anything with you
1:19:41that night some of her underwear
1:19:47anything else
1:19:50all right um did you do anything
1:19:54else to try and uh cover your tracks
1:19:57with me france
1:20:05um
1:20:09well i had turned off my blackberry
1:20:10before i left trent
1:20:15other than that
1:20:20do you remember trying to destroy any
1:20:22kind of evidence there or anything
1:20:24you thought may have uh produced
1:20:26evidence or anything
1:20:28oh i took her sheets off the bed and ran
1:20:30them through the laundry
1:20:35like the laundry where at in her house
1:20:38okay did you run them completely through
1:20:40did you wait for it to finish or
1:20:42no i just put them in and put a whole
1:20:44bunch of bleach in and
1:20:46let it go okay
1:20:49so the night you went to her house and
1:20:51got through at 11 you came
1:20:53from where
1:20:56you said you left trenton you turned off
1:20:58your blackberry
1:21:03did you talking about the base are you
1:21:05talking about uh where did you leave to
1:21:07go to her house
1:21:08well no i just turned off my blackberry
1:21:10before i left the trenton area um
1:21:15i would have left from the base after
1:21:16work
1:21:18all right when did you turn when did you
1:21:20uh what time do you think you turned
1:21:22your blackberry off
1:21:28well it's only a half hour drive to
1:21:29brighton so
1:21:32yeah probably in the 9 9 30
1:21:36range remember what uh
1:21:41one time you would have turned it back
1:21:42on
1:21:45when i was back on the four one heading
1:21:46to auto by the next morning
1:21:48what time would that be so
1:21:52six plus or minus 30 minutes okay
1:21:56so you leave her house three-ish
1:21:59no i think it was later than that so the
1:22:00four hours obviously was
1:22:04i think uh man i think it went in about
1:22:08eleven
1:22:10i was in the basement for quite a while
1:22:13probably left her house closer to four
1:22:15or thirty somewhere in there
1:22:19okay and where do you go
1:22:24uh i drove to hello straight title
1:22:28did you go by your house and tweet or
1:22:30anything or did you just go straight
1:22:32remember what route you took
1:22:36uh yeah 4-1
1:22:40but from her place uh
1:22:44i think i went straight north on uh
1:22:46whatever the road is that goes straight
1:22:47through brighton up to the 4-1
1:22:49at the 4-1 and headed east
1:22:53okay and so you're going to
1:22:57what's the meeting you're having that
1:22:59day in ottawa remind me
1:23:00a meeting on the c-17 acquisition
1:23:03project
1:23:04okay and who ran that meeting the
1:23:07project manager
1:23:08miss uh sue hale okay
1:23:13is that the only meeting around that
1:23:15time period you would have went to on
1:23:16that issue with sue hill
1:23:19there wasn't like a weekly meeting or
1:23:20anything like that i know this is sort
1:23:22of a quarterly
1:23:24all right um
1:23:26[Music]
1:23:28so the night you went tonight this
1:23:31happened
1:23:33where did you park uh that night
1:23:37as i said across the gravel a little
1:23:40roadway probably
1:23:41it's probably the same road okay similar
1:23:44location to the first night
1:23:46yeah okay all right
1:23:49same same vehicle
1:23:54yeah truck okay
1:23:58all right um
1:24:03okay let's talk about uh the well seeing
1:24:06as we're going backwards in time here
1:24:07why don't we talk about the second
1:24:08incident in tweed
1:24:10um
1:24:14with uh lori masakai
1:24:17one that's a 76 cozy cove
1:24:26how did you decide on her
1:24:31i knew she lived alone
1:24:36how did you know that
1:24:41three doors down and uh
1:24:45didn't know her but i knew she was
1:24:48pretty long she had
1:24:49a boyfriend and hadn't seemed to be
1:24:53had been around
1:25:01you know uh looked in the window and
1:25:05she's alone so she she had a boyfriend
1:25:09but he wasn't
1:25:10too frequent okay well she told me that
1:25:13they were fighting so
1:25:14that's why he hadn't been there okay
1:25:19so um
1:25:24did you look in her house before the
1:25:26night that this
1:25:27this incident happened or when did you
1:25:30do that i had been in uh
1:25:33within the week
1:25:36probably a couple of nights earlier
1:25:39what'd you do that night
1:25:43i um
1:25:46i looked around to see if there any
1:25:50permanent signs of her boyfriend i guess
1:25:56took one or two pieces of underwear
1:26:05that's all
1:26:08okay so the night you go there
1:26:13um when the incident happens uh remember
1:26:15what time that was
1:26:18it was pretty late um i probably got
1:26:21into the house around midnight
1:26:23she was asleep on the couch well i
1:26:25didn't know that but
1:26:27i knew she was in there and how did you
1:26:30get in sorry
1:26:32a window in the back of the house
1:26:39was it just something you had to slide
1:26:41or how did you
1:26:43remove the screen and slide it up okay
1:26:51so i got into the house and
1:26:55she was asleep in front of the tv
1:27:02wearing anything on your face that night
1:27:05yep same things
1:27:06okay the headband and the the cap
1:27:10okay um
1:27:13what kind of clothes did you have on
1:27:22right so she's asleep on the couch
1:27:25you're in there and then what happens
1:27:30we have been through this eh i know i
1:27:33struck her with the
1:27:34uh flashlight thinking about knock her
1:27:36out it didn't
1:27:38we struggled i subdued her
1:27:41took some pictures left it's probably in
1:27:43the houseboat
1:27:46two and a half hours
1:27:51it's a pretty short description for two
1:27:53and a half hours
1:27:57well and we talked i
1:28:06told her i was going to hurt her
1:28:14i um i told her that there were
1:28:18other guys in the house robbing her
1:28:23my job was just to control her
1:28:35what did she say to that
1:28:38she's scared
1:28:43worried she was going to be seriously
1:28:45hurt
1:28:49did she say that or did you just assume
1:28:51that no no she said that she was
1:28:59she was worried she was going to be
1:29:00killed i said i'm not going to kill him
1:29:05what did you do with uh you said you
1:29:08took pictures of her um
1:29:09clothed unclothed uh both
1:29:14clothed ashley and then unclothed
1:29:21are you in any of those pictures
1:29:25i don't think so you just took them at
1:29:27her
1:29:29what kind of camera are you using by the
1:29:31way
1:29:34it's a digital uh song
1:29:38you just have the one camera yeah
1:29:41and the video camera also they're two
1:29:44separate
1:29:46some cameras take video right um
1:29:49and where is the camera and the video
1:29:52camera
1:29:56then tweet
1:30:00was it the only camera and video camera
1:30:02in that house
1:30:04yeah okay all right
1:30:07um so you take pictures over
1:30:11and how do you end up leaving thank you
1:30:17i just told her to
1:30:22count or wait for a number of minutes
1:30:26before
1:30:29of course you call the police okay
1:30:33you leave immediately or did you stay
1:30:35there for a while see what she was going
1:30:37to do or
1:30:39um and where do you go home
1:30:43straight home did you
1:30:48did you wait to see if the police showed
1:30:49up or anything or
1:30:51nope
1:30:55so what did you do when you got home on
1:30:56your feet
1:30:59i went to sleep okay
1:31:03i would do the next day
1:31:07you wanted to work normal time
1:31:10okay a couple hours later
1:31:16all right um
1:31:21do you remember how her clothing was
1:31:28removed
1:31:30uh well because their hands were tied
1:31:32behind your back i think i cut off her
1:31:33top
1:31:34and then pulled off her bottle what did
1:31:37you use the cutter top
1:31:45i can't remember if it was a knife or
1:31:48like a folding
1:31:49exacto knife or leatherman or one of the
1:31:52two
1:31:54are these items that are in your house
1:31:56and tweet yep
1:31:58okay was there ever any other time you
1:32:01used a a knife to
1:32:03cut off clothing or anything else do you
1:32:06remember
1:32:08i cut off jessica's top with a knife
1:32:12so our hands were tied behind your back
1:32:15that's all okay where's that knife which
1:32:18knife do you have
1:32:20that was leather this is the only
1:32:23leatherman in tweet
1:32:25okay um
1:32:29so on the 16th september
1:32:33when you went in that night was that the
1:32:35first time you've been in her house
1:32:39and why her just because i had seen her
1:32:42and
1:32:44she was cute that's it
1:32:49okay so there was no
1:32:54you didn't go into her house before that
1:32:55that night no
1:32:58all right um
1:33:01so you go in and how did you get into
1:33:03her house
1:33:06side window the uh
1:33:11was not locked cut the screen slid the
1:33:14window
1:33:15curled in okay
1:33:20and uh what you're wearing
1:33:23same switch your dark pants
1:33:27in the same hat and
1:33:30okay uh
1:33:34and where do you find uh in bed
1:33:37sleep okay and what do you do
1:33:43stood over her for a while and i um
1:33:46hit her on the left side of her head
1:33:48with my hand
1:33:53just woke her up he struggled
1:34:00you know just lay on her
1:34:08and very much like i described a little
1:34:11bit ago
1:34:14took off her pulled her top down
1:34:19and took off her pants took some
1:34:22pictures
1:34:22left do you remember her saying anything
1:34:26to you
1:34:27yes what did she say here
1:34:31all kinds of things um
1:34:35you know she had a a young baby just
1:34:40next door the other room eight months or
1:34:44so
1:34:46she's obviously concerned about the baby
1:34:50let's turn for herself i assured her i
1:34:52was not going to hurt her
1:34:58physically
1:35:07right um any underwear taken from
1:35:12or pory yeah both and where would they
1:35:15be located
1:35:17in tweed
1:35:25and why are they in tweed as opposed to
1:35:29marie franz and jessica's underwear
1:35:42remember how much of their underwear you
1:35:43took
1:35:46um
1:35:53not very much from lori did they know
1:35:56that you took
1:35:57their underwear i don't know
1:36:00you didn't discuss it with them or
1:36:02anything
1:36:04um
1:36:07so wear and tweed would their underwear
1:36:09be
1:36:22um
1:36:26in the um it's a laundry room area
1:36:32okay just between the house and the
1:36:34garage
1:36:36right
1:36:44so where in that laundry area would they
1:36:46be kept
1:36:47there's a cupboard up top
1:36:50and duffel bag what's the default bag
1:36:53look like
1:36:54it's a green army definitely
1:36:58are they all in the same duffel bag is
1:37:00there anything else in that duffel bag
1:37:05just anywhere okay
1:37:10um
1:37:17on these when these pictures
1:37:20are looked at you talked about being in
1:37:23marie franz's underwear
1:37:24on the first night you went in did you
1:37:26take photographs of that
1:37:27yeah what about anybody else's underwear
1:37:32yep photos of you in their underwear
1:37:37and where were those photos taken
1:37:46um
1:37:48well sometimes in
1:37:56this in in maddie francis case in her
1:38:00house
1:38:02the others in my house
1:38:05and tweet so is this a matter you would
1:38:09take the underwear go back and
1:38:11and then at some point put them around
1:38:13and take pictures
1:38:16what about jessica's underwear
1:38:22uh she's only her friend
1:38:27so you don't have pictures of you and i
1:38:29remember
1:38:31all right um
1:38:37okay well
1:38:40i guess uh i just have a couple of
1:38:43questions
1:38:44for you i mean i'm sure there's going to
1:38:45be more questions but i guess what's on
1:38:47my mind right now
1:38:48for us is what made you decide
1:38:51to tell me this tonight
1:39:01mostly uh to make my wife's
1:39:04life easier okay
1:39:10is what you've told me tonight the truth
1:39:13yeah okay
1:39:21how do you feel about what you've done
1:39:22like what
1:39:39disappointed okay
1:39:44let me ask you this if um
1:39:48if this didn't come to the point it's at
1:39:49right now
1:39:51if whatever reason you didn't end up on
1:39:53our on our radar so to speak
1:39:56uh do you think it would have happened
1:39:57again
1:40:06i was hoping not that i can't answer the
1:40:08question
1:40:11okay um
1:40:15not too much here russ just a few
1:40:17details that
1:40:18i wanted to cover off and specifically
1:40:21dan with marie france
1:40:23um in the basement of her house
1:40:28uh there's a hole in the drywall
1:40:33do you recall how that happened
1:40:36whereabouts i don't know specifically
1:40:39but
1:40:39it's downstairs i don't remember that
1:40:42okay do you remember doing anything with
1:40:46her in the basement uh where you may
1:40:47have used some clothing or something to
1:40:50to secure her yeah i tied her up against
1:40:54one of the
1:40:56poles in the basement initially
1:41:00i went outside and put the screen back
1:41:03on and
1:41:03secure the window okay
1:41:07well she was tied to the pole yep and
1:41:10what was your thinking behind doing that
1:41:11at that point
1:41:14just to cover up how i'd come in
1:41:18okay now by the time she's tied to that
1:41:21pole is that in the very
1:41:23initial few minutes kind of thing of the
1:41:24confrontation or that was
1:41:27shortly after i'd subdued her and tied
1:41:29her up yes okay
1:41:30does she have the duct tape on her mouth
1:41:32yet
1:41:38i think probably pictures will show it
1:41:42all right now in the upstairs bathroom
1:41:45by her bedroom
1:41:47there's uh looks like something's
1:41:49occurred in there
1:41:51remember that yep what happened there
1:41:54she had passed out on the bed and i had
1:41:57gone to look at the front window
1:41:59see if anybody was coming and
1:42:04she got up and closed the bedroom door
1:42:07and raced into the bathroom
1:42:08trying to get somebody's attention
1:42:13but her mouth was taped and her hands
1:42:15were tied
1:42:18what did you do as a result of that well
1:42:20i just got in
1:42:24some deuter again and got got her back
1:42:26in the bitter
1:42:28and do anything just regain control over
1:42:33okay if i remember correctly there's a
1:42:34bit there's a bit of blood in there do
1:42:36you know where that blood would have
1:42:37how that that would have occurred all
1:42:38the blood was from
1:42:41the initial hits as i was trying to
1:42:43subdue her
1:42:44okay her skin breaking with the
1:42:48blows to her head okay do you recall
1:42:51blood being in the bathroom
1:42:53no actually i didn't have a light on
1:42:54there but
1:42:56it doesn't surprise me okay
1:42:59um there's a pair of underwear and some
1:43:02socks on the floor of that bathroom
1:43:05that belonged to her do you remember how
1:43:07they got there i don't remember seeing
1:43:11what do you recall doing to her breasts
1:43:14it's pretty clear that there was some
1:43:16something happened to her breasts do you
1:43:18remember
1:43:19what that might have been no i certainly
1:43:22touched her breasts i didn't
1:43:24do anything to hurt them i remember that
1:43:27no
1:43:28okay all right
1:43:31um well russell
1:43:34when i suffocated her she was on her
1:43:38her front so
1:43:42may have been something there but what
1:43:44do you mean
1:43:46well she was lying on the floor in the
1:43:48bedroom as i suffocated her and
1:43:49obviously struggled
1:43:51maybe an error that something happened
1:43:53but i didn't do anything specifically to
1:43:55her breasts
1:43:56okay so when you suffocate here that's
1:43:59when you have the duct tape over mouth
1:44:00and nose
1:44:01and that's on the floor yeah and
1:44:04then what happens after that
1:44:08well she died and i um
1:44:12and took the duct tape off her head and
1:44:15put her on the bed
1:44:17and covered her up with a duvet
1:44:20okay and what was your thinking behind
1:44:22doing
1:44:33all that um as you might expect here
1:44:37russ
1:44:38uh certainly uh even now one of the
1:44:41ottawa investigators mentioned to me
1:44:43that um there's a number of incidents
1:44:45that uh
1:44:46that have gone unsolved over the years
1:44:51can i i was gonna get into that can i go
1:44:54to the washroom quickly
1:44:55yeah i can get somebody to take the
1:44:56washroom okay
1:45:07you

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