Col. Russell Williams - Interrogation Part 1 — Transcript

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1. 0:00[Music]
2. 0:20all right
3. 0:22you just have to see girls the guy was
4. 0:25speaking with me
5. 0:26whatever night that was was for us as
6. 0:28well oh yeah
7. 0:30took every number i had yeah now they
8. 0:32were doing some pretty thorough
9. 0:34interviews that night yeah
10. 0:35absolutely that was great to see it i'm
11. 0:37just gonna move your gloves here that's
12. 0:38a little microphone
13. 0:39make sure there's nice and clear um as
14. 0:41you can see here everything in this room
15. 0:42is a videotaped and audio
16. 0:44taped uh you've been interviewed by the
17. 0:47police in a
18. 0:48in a room like this before i've never
19. 0:49been interviewed like this oh no
20. 0:56okay
21. 0:58i guess the closest to interview by nis
22. 1:01for
23. 1:02top secret clearance oh yeah all right
24. 1:05well again russell i appreciate you
25. 1:06coming in
26. 1:07an investigation like this i mean i'm
27. 1:08sure you can appreciate it's been big
28. 1:10news uh
29. 1:11especially down in belleville way
30. 1:14and you know obviously our approach to
31. 1:15cases like this is that uh
32. 1:18we don't give up on somebody being alive
33. 1:20until we get evidence that they're not
34. 1:22so
35. 1:23because of that we're treating jessica's
36. 1:25case as an emergent situation obviously
37. 1:28so we're fast forwarding things that we
38. 1:31might normally take our time with
39. 1:33and that's why we're here on a sunday
40. 1:35afternoon so
41. 1:37again i appreciate it um we're going to
42. 1:40do a pretty thorough interview today
43. 1:41okay um and the reason for that is
44. 1:43because
45. 1:44the last thing we want is to be calling
46. 1:46people back again and again and again
47. 1:48okay so what we're going to do is we're
48. 1:50going to go over a number of things and
49. 1:51uh i'm going to explain what all those
50. 1:52are to you
51. 1:53okay um i'm a big coffee guy i don't
52. 1:57know if you're
53. 1:58a coffee guy or something i didn't want
54. 1:59to drink in front of you so no i
55. 2:01appreciate that all right go ahead
56. 2:02i could uh definitely are they black
57. 2:04yeah they're just black with uh with
58. 2:06sugar
59. 2:18all right and again um like i said this
60. 2:20interview is going to be very thorough
61. 2:21um
62. 2:22but again uh i have a simple rule when i
63. 2:24talk to people it's
64. 2:25uh i'm sure you're the same way i treat
65. 2:27everybody with respect i don't want to
66. 2:29ask you to do the same for me
67. 2:30um so what we're going to do is we're
68. 2:32going to start off by uh going through
69. 2:34what your rights are okay just like
70. 2:36everybody else okay
71. 2:38um have you ever been read your rights
72. 2:39before no yeah i'm sure you've seen on
73. 2:41tv a whole bunch of times but it's
74. 2:42usually the american version so
75. 2:44i'll go over with you briefly okay um
76. 2:46basically in canada
77. 2:47uh as you know i'm sure is uh we all
78. 2:49have our rights guaranteed under the
79. 2:51charter of rights and freedoms
80. 2:52okay now uh russell just to avoid any
81. 2:55confusion because people do
82. 2:56get confused when they're talked to by
83. 2:57the police is that uh
84. 2:59you're obviously not under arrest here
85. 3:01today okay anytime you feel uh you want
86. 3:03to leave here you feel free to do so the
87. 3:05door's not locked teresa will walk you
88. 3:06down the lobby anytime you want okay
89. 3:08um if there's anything that comes up in
90. 3:11our interview today russell that
91. 3:13that you feel you want to talk to a
92. 3:15lawyer about
93. 3:16um you just uh you just let me know okay
94. 3:19and the reason for that is i want to
95. 3:20explain to you exactly what's going on
96. 3:22here okay
97. 3:22um jessica uh lloyd
98. 3:26is um is one of four cases that we're
99. 3:29currently
100. 3:30investigating okay and essentially
101. 3:32what's happened is over the past
102. 3:34uh about four or five months
103. 3:39there have been four occurrences that
104. 3:41like i said that we're looking into
105. 3:43uh two of those occurrences occurred in
106. 3:44september of 2009
107. 3:46um and very briefly they were up in the
108. 3:48uh the tweet area
109. 3:50uh they involved uh somebody entering uh
110. 3:52two different women's houses
111. 3:53um in the evening hours and uh
112. 3:56committing
113. 3:57sexual acts okay uh in
114. 4:00uh november of 2009 a young lady by the
115. 4:03name of uh marie france
116. 4:05cuomo yeah was found uh
117. 4:08murdered in her home and wright and uh
118. 4:11we believe that there was a sexual
119. 4:13component to that crime as well and
120. 4:16then most recently we have jessica
121. 4:18lloyd's disappearance okay
122. 4:20so essentially when you look at those
123. 4:21kind of crimes we're looking at a number
124. 4:23of different uh potential criminal
125. 4:25charges
126. 4:25right we're looking at issues uh all the
127. 4:28way from
128. 4:28the most serious one which is first
129. 4:30degree murder uh kidnapping
130. 4:32uh sexual assault uh break and enter
131. 4:34with intent to commit sexual assault
132. 4:36yeah um forcible confinement okay and uh
133. 4:40so what i wanna make sure you understand
134. 4:41and
135. 4:42so we've been doing with everybody been
136. 4:43talking to is that clearly when we find
137. 4:45out who's responsible for one or all of
138. 4:47those crimes
139. 4:48uh they could be charged with one or all
140. 4:50of those offenses okay whether it's you
141. 4:52or whether it's anybody else
142. 4:53right and that's why it's important that
143. 4:55we uh
144. 4:56make sure that people understand what
145. 4:57they have to do and what they don't have
146. 4:58to do when they're talking to us
147. 5:00okay so as i said before any point today
148. 5:03uh you feel the need you want to speak
149. 5:04to a lawyer uh you let me know and
150. 5:06we can take you to a room where you can
151. 5:07do that in private okay um
152. 5:10do you have your own lawyer i have a
153. 5:13realty lawyer but
154. 5:14okay i don't have a lawyer all right if
155. 5:17at any point
156. 5:18you want to make that call and you don't
157. 5:19know who to call we have a phone list of
158. 5:22lawyers that
159. 5:23are available to give you advice free of
160. 5:24charge right over the phone okay
161. 5:26so again if any point today you want to
162. 5:28take advantage of that you just let me
163. 5:29know
164. 5:30is there any reason you want to call a
165. 5:31lawyer now no okay
166. 5:33a couple other fairly simple and
167. 5:35straightforward things that
168. 5:37you probably understand but again we go
169. 5:39over them to make sure everybody's clear
170. 5:41is that uh you don't have to speak to me
171. 5:42today okay
172. 5:44and the reason for that is because the
173. 5:45law considers me to be what we refer to
174. 5:47as a personal authority
175. 5:48okay probably similar to what you may be
176. 5:50considered to be on the base
177. 5:53and because of that i can be compelled
178. 5:54to appear before any judge in the
179. 5:56country basically to account for what
180. 5:57takes place
181. 5:58here today between you and i okay and
182. 6:00that's the reason why everything's
183. 6:02recorded
184. 6:03because there can't be any more accurate
185. 6:05record than that right so
186. 6:06i understood um and the other thing i
187. 6:08want to make sure you understand is that
188. 6:10uh
189. 6:10you know you mentioned a second ago
190. 6:12about miss cuomo um
191. 6:14being one of your work associates so i
192. 6:17don't know
193. 6:17what's happened since november on the
194. 6:19military side of things
195. 6:22but what we want to make people clear on
196. 6:23is that if you have been spoken to by
197. 6:26any person authority or any police
198. 6:27officer about any of those cases
199. 6:30i don't want what they may have said to
200. 6:31you to
201. 6:33make you feel influenced or compelled to
202. 6:35say anything to me today okay
203. 6:36whatever you might have felt influenced
204. 6:38or compelled to say to them earlier you
205. 6:40don't have to repeat it to me and you
206. 6:41don't have to say anything further okay
207. 6:42but obviously what you do say you know
208. 6:44for the third time is being recorded
209. 6:46right so
210. 6:47i understood these first two attacks
211. 6:49happened uh not that far from my place
212. 6:51into evil
213. 6:52the second one did yeah we didn't even
214. 6:54know the first one had happened but
215. 6:56uh i understand that was reasonably
216. 6:57close as well but the second one was uh
217. 7:00was very close yeah so certainly at the
218. 7:02time jpp did a
219. 7:03uh my door-to-door yeah
220. 7:06and uh within a couple of days probably
221. 7:08the same night so i spoke with a couple
222. 7:09guys then
223. 7:10okay um yeah and i'm aware of that from
224. 7:13looking at the different cases
225. 7:15and essentially uh russell uh in a
226. 7:17nutshell that's what we wanted to uh to
227. 7:18talk to you about
228. 7:19okay those four cases are of concern to
229. 7:22us
230. 7:23and um you know you've kind of almost
231. 7:25hit the nail on the head about
232. 7:27some of our issues that kind of make us
233. 7:29want to talk to to russell williams okay
234. 7:32um because essentially uh there was a
235. 7:35a connection between you and
236. 7:38all four of those cases would you agree
237. 7:43and then yes i drive past uh yes i would
238. 7:46have to say there's a
239. 7:47connection here yeah and that's what
240. 7:48that's why um
241. 7:50i'll be quite frank with you that's why
242. 7:52uh things kind of um
243. 7:53uh evolved when uh the officers talked
244. 7:56to you on thursday night okay
245. 7:57uh we kind of went from there because uh
246. 8:00when
247. 8:00i think you discussed within the fact
248. 8:02that you were a uh uh
249. 8:04a colonel yeah at the base i was in
250. 8:06uniform at the time so
251. 8:07yeah so pretty obvious right um so
252. 8:10essentially uh
253. 8:11then the connection with miss cuomo um
254. 8:13was made
255. 8:14um and i believe you're uh
256. 8:18a door or two down from one of those two
257. 8:20uh incidents uh
258. 8:22in tweet three doors down yeah yeah very
259. 8:24close absolutely
260. 8:25yeah exactly so uh those are some of the
261. 8:27issues we wanted to discuss with you
262. 8:29yeah okay
263. 8:30um so just getting back to uh
264. 8:33these four incidents that we're talking
265. 8:34about um maybe you could just give me a
266. 8:37little bit of history as to
267. 8:39your arrival in the in the base in
268. 8:42trenton when did you
269. 8:43start working there friday on the day i
270. 8:46was um
271. 8:57friday on the day i was at home sometime
272. 8:58most of the day i had to start
273. 9:00a stomach flu okay in ottawa or tweet
274. 9:03tweet and tweet okay uh
275. 9:06so we backtrack then
276. 9:10so all day friday you're at home
277. 9:13yeah and then what time do you leave to
278. 9:16go to the base to sleep there on the
279. 9:17friday night
280. 9:20um
281. 9:22um i'm not sure probably just you know
282. 9:25went in for
283. 9:26just before bed uh so probably
284. 9:29tweeted between eight and nine or so
285. 9:31okay um
286. 9:33and you get to the base and spend the
287. 9:35evening there and get up for the 5 30.
288. 9:37yeah okay that's right so we backtracked
289. 9:39from there um
290. 9:40you when did you arrive at your home uh
291. 9:44at the cottage can i want to get
292. 9:46confused between your home in ottawa
293. 9:52the week prior now um
294. 9:58yeah i think that's the case is in tweet
295. 10:00all week
296. 10:02flew saturday i had a dollar on saturday
297. 10:04night
298. 10:06okay so um if you didn't have the
299. 10:09stomach flu on the friday
300. 10:10what was your schedule that day really
301. 10:13okay
302. 10:14um
303. 10:17what would have been my schedule just a
304. 10:18standard schedule in the office okay
305. 10:20so uh last brief in the morning a couple
306. 10:24of uh
307. 10:27a couple of meetings i can't remember
308. 10:29what the specifics were gonna be okay so
309. 10:33um thursday night you slept at tweet or
310. 10:35you
311. 10:36yeah all right and what did you thursday
312. 10:39during the day
313. 10:40thursday during the day i was at the
314. 10:42base again
315. 10:44um i think it was a fairly standard day
316. 10:49i can't recall exactly but
317. 10:50uh yeah nothing
318. 10:54was not flying so i was at the base so i
319. 10:56would have gone in early in the morning
320. 10:58back in the evening again
321. 10:59okay do you remember what time you left
322. 11:00the base at me
323. 11:09i don't remember anything peculiar so i
324. 11:10would say uh
325. 11:14i don't know probably seven to nine
326. 11:16somewhere in that range okay
327. 11:18that's when you you left left the base
328. 11:19yeah and what it was a 45 minute transit
329. 11:21it's 45 minutes home yeah okay
330. 11:23cool okay now i'm not going to walk you
331. 11:25through november but i'm going to take
332. 11:26you to a date that's probably pretty
333. 11:27fresh in your mind
334. 11:29uh the day that uh that marie franz uh
335. 11:32um do you remember how you found out i
336. 11:34do yeah i was sent an email um
337. 11:39well as soon as the uh the off staff and
338. 11:42the base
339. 11:43learned they told me okay so i got an
340. 11:46email i can't remember if it was late at
341. 11:48night or in the morning but certainly i
342. 11:49saw it
343. 11:51i want to say first thing in the morning
344. 11:52because i had just come back from ottawa
345. 11:55i was in ottawa for um
346. 12:00a set of meetings on one of the days i
347. 12:02can't remember what day of the week
348. 12:03we're talking about it but uh
349. 12:07yeah no i mean obviously one when your
350. 12:09people get skilled that
351. 12:10gets your attention so absolutely yeah i
352. 12:12very much remember that coming in
353. 12:14and how did you know marie franz coleman
354. 12:17i'd only met her once um
355. 12:20she was on a crew i was on just after i
356. 12:23got to the base
357. 12:24okay so uh i can't remember i think it
358. 12:27was a one day trip uh
359. 12:28i did a number of trips in canada
360. 12:31transporting um
361. 12:34our you know troops sort of first lake
362. 12:36out of
363. 12:37edmonton uh you know we tend to hop
364. 12:40scotch them across
365. 12:40uh until they get into theater so and
366. 12:44i i can't remember which trip it was but
367. 12:45uh we did a number of them up to
368. 12:47edmonton just to pick up the troops
369. 12:48bring them to trenton
370. 12:50and then uh put a fresh crew on and uh
371. 12:53because we fly open back in the same day
372. 12:54so i'm pushing the edge of that
373. 12:55and uh fresh crew on and continue on
374. 12:59after a couple hour delay
375. 13:00okay do you know roughly when that
376. 13:02happened
377. 13:04though we were on the same crew at the
378. 13:06time you met her the one time there yet
379. 13:07it was soon after i got to the base so
380. 13:09uh i i don't remember exactly but i
381. 13:12would say
382. 13:13in the first couple of months so august
383. 13:14september
384. 13:16okay um now you got that email notifying
385. 13:19you that something had happened
386. 13:21uh do you have uh any kind of a a clear
387. 13:24recollection as to how your schedule was
388. 13:25going that week
389. 13:30well i can't remember what again what
390. 13:32day that
391. 13:33uh the message came in just a second
392. 13:36um
393. 13:43no i can't remember what day day of the
394. 13:45week but i um
395. 13:48almost think there was a whole bunch of
396. 13:49activity spun up as a result
397. 13:51obviously
398. 13:55i can't remember the day of the week um
399. 14:04i'm just trying to think through the
400. 14:04news reports i read
401. 14:09no i'm sorry i can't remember what day
402. 14:10that was but uh
403. 14:16well what i what we learned after the
404. 14:18fact was that the um
405. 14:20the mps had learnt
406. 14:24uh of her death i think quite a bit
407. 14:27after
408. 14:27her body had been discovered okay
409. 14:31so i think what happened i'm sorry i'm
410. 14:36just saying
411. 14:44okay so i think if i remember correctly
412. 14:46the mps learned
413. 14:49late that evening camera went and
414. 14:51obviously her
415. 14:52body was discovered it was probably in
416. 14:53the news reports but uh so they learned
417. 14:56and then they passed it to ops that they
418. 14:57need so they immediately passed it
419. 14:59to me okay the mps work for the wing
420. 15:02operations officer so they go you know
421. 15:03through their chain command and then as
422. 15:05soon as the
423. 15:05the duty watch officer had that
424. 15:07information she advised me
425. 15:09okay um so again that that one
426. 15:13with some others right right i'm sure
427. 15:15it's spread like wildfire yes
428. 15:17um so that particular week
429. 15:20uh do you have any recollection well for
430. 15:22instance when you got the email
431. 15:24uh do you remember where you were i was
432. 15:27at home and tweet
433. 15:28okay yeah um do you remember if that was
434. 15:30a week that you were
435. 15:31um reasonably stable in trenton or had
436. 15:35you flown no i had been in ottawa
437. 15:37i had been in ottawa earlier in the week
438. 15:39uh
439. 15:40for some meetings over in gatineau for
440. 15:43one of the um
441. 15:44especially for the c17 acquisition i was
442. 15:46project director
443. 15:47and when i was here in ottawa for that
444. 15:49so just some follow-up stuff for that
445. 15:51okay so i had been here
446. 15:57at some point in that week again i can't
447. 15:59remember how the days all fell together
448. 16:02but um i seem to remember that i got
449. 16:06this word
450. 16:07shortly after having come back from
451. 16:09ottawa
452. 16:10it seems to me it was the same week so
453. 16:12if we were to uh
454. 16:13to you know do a similar investigation
455. 16:17in your background is there
456. 16:18is there anything you can think of that
457. 16:19anybody may have misinterpreted or
458. 16:21anything
459. 16:22uh in your history that somebody might
460. 16:24say russell williams uh
461. 16:26absolutely did this no okay be very
462. 16:30boring
463. 16:30what's that it'll be very boring all
464. 16:33right because
465. 16:34essentially that's what i'm looking at
466. 16:35is it uh um
467. 16:39you seem like a very intelligent person
468. 16:40and i think you can see how
469. 16:42um a surprise like that would uh
470. 16:45certainly some alarm bells investigation
471. 16:48right okay
472. 16:49um so the next thing we need to cover
473. 16:52off
474. 16:53is uh well i'll just ask you this
475. 16:55straight out uh
476. 16:56given the types of crimes we're
477. 16:57investigating uh do you get much chance
478. 16:59to uh
479. 17:00to watch television shows csi things
480. 17:03like that i do watch
481. 17:05i prefer law order but i do watch csi
482. 17:07occasionally okay
483. 17:09so you have an idea of obviously the
484. 17:10forensic capabilities things like that
485. 17:12are out there
486. 17:14what would you be willing to give me
487. 17:15today to help me move past you in this
488. 17:18investigation
489. 17:21what uh what do you need well um
490. 17:25would you be willing to supply things
491. 17:27like fingerprints blood samples
492. 17:28things like that okay footwear
493. 17:31impressions
494. 17:32yeah okay all right um i think that's
495. 17:35what we're gonna we're gonna ask you to
496. 17:36do okay all right
497. 17:37now we have a process we have to go
498. 17:39through to do that okay um
499. 17:40and for the blood sample uh i don't take
500. 17:43the blood sample we have specially
501. 17:44trained officers that are trained to do
502. 17:45that
503. 17:46i'm going to step out and make sure
504. 17:47they're still available
505. 17:50can i assume you're going to be discreet
506. 17:53it's possible
507. 17:54yeah because
508. 17:57you know this would have a very
509. 17:59significant impact on the base if
510. 18:01they thought you thought i did this well
511. 18:04uh
512. 18:04bottom line russell that's one of the
513. 18:06reasons we're here on a sunday afternoon
514. 18:08um uh the the military certainly be of
515. 18:10great assistance for
516. 18:12to us especially in relation to miss
517. 18:14cuomo's investigation so
518. 18:15uh that's certainly one of the things
519. 18:17that went into our decision to to give
520. 18:18you a call at home day and see if we
521. 18:19could deal with this today okay
522. 18:21so okay um
523. 18:28because it's tough to undo the rumor
524. 18:30mill once it gets started
525. 18:36i appreciate that okay
526. 18:39now that you've had some time to i mean
527. 18:40i know we've been throwing a lot of
528. 18:41things at you here but now you've had
529. 18:42some time to think about things
530. 18:45um is there anything uh that you're
531. 18:47concerned about
532. 18:48uh that buckle swap matching in any of
533. 18:51those four residences
534. 18:53um is i guess
535. 18:56let me explain what i'm getting down
536. 18:57here russell okay um
537. 19:00this is a significant investigation as
538. 19:02you can see as you can well imagine
539. 19:04um that that dna is going to be
540. 19:07uh significant in our investigation both
541. 19:09uh
542. 19:10you know quite possibly to help you
543. 19:11quite possibly to help us
544. 19:13i don't know yet don't know what the
545. 19:14result is yet
546. 19:17and i'll go back to the example i gave
547. 19:19you because a very similar
548. 19:20issue i think and you talked about the
549. 19:24idea of discretion here
550. 19:25okay uh you talked about the idea that
551. 19:28uh
552. 19:28um you know you i think
553. 19:32hopefully you appreciate the fact of how
554. 19:33we approach to here yep um
555. 19:36and essentially uh we have no issues
556. 19:38with that okay
557. 19:39um we talked recently about you know the
558. 19:42whole idea of any unusual sex acts of
559. 19:44your history
560. 19:45um but another thing that can often
561. 19:47happen in cases like this
562. 19:49is that people um become concerned about
563. 19:52uh
564. 19:53um things like extramarital affairs uh
565. 19:56indiscretions along those lines um
566. 20:00is there any contact that you may have
567. 20:03had with any of those four women
568. 20:05um that you may not want your wife to be
569. 20:08aware of
570. 20:09anything like that that we should know
571. 20:11about to try and uh
572. 20:12explain why if if your dna is found it
573. 20:16would help us understand why it may be
574. 20:17there
575. 20:18absolutely not can you think of any
576. 20:22reason
577. 20:22um why we would find your dna in any of
578. 20:25those resonances
579. 20:26let's let's focus on well for instance i
580. 20:29believe let me just check the name there
581. 20:30make sure i've got the right address
582. 20:32talking about the house that was just a
583. 20:34couple of doors down from you there
584. 20:35and uh in tweed a couple of doors down
585. 20:38with lori i don't know her last name but
586. 20:40i don't know mazzucotti
587. 20:42i don't even know what her last name is
588. 20:44but uh
589. 20:47there's the woman down the road three
590. 20:49doors down
591. 20:50her name is lori i don't know her last
592. 20:52one all right let me just make sure
593. 20:53we're on the same page here
594. 21:00my understanding is she lived at the 76
595. 21:02cozy cove yeah so she would be the one
596. 21:04the second one uh the second incident on
597. 21:07your on your road there yeah a couple of
598. 21:09doors down ever been in her house
599. 21:13no we met her once i think the first
600. 21:17summer
601. 21:19um we were there was 104. okay
602. 21:23and that's what i'm getting at again
603. 21:25this is a credibility issue right now
604. 21:27because
605. 21:28i don't want to come and see you two
606. 21:30weeks from now and say you know russ
607. 21:32uh yeah our csi people in that house and
608. 21:34uh are you familiar with how c
609. 21:36uh dna works
610. 21:39i think broadly yes um
611. 21:42one of the challenges we have in 2010
612. 21:45with dna is it's become so
613. 21:47um precise that um
614. 21:50i guess the best way to explain it is i
615. 21:52can think back 15 years ago when i
616. 21:54started in
617. 21:55in violent crime investigation yeah for
618. 21:58us to get a dna match
619. 22:00the sample we had to find was um
620. 22:03you know probably would have filled half
621. 22:04of one of these cups
622. 22:06you know because they destroyed so much
623. 22:07of the the sample in the in the testing
624. 22:11essentially dna has become more and more
625. 22:13precise
626. 22:14to the point where when you and i walked
627. 22:16in this room earlier today
628. 22:18we could have sat down talked for 30
629. 22:21seconds walked out
630. 22:22csi officer could have come in three
631. 22:25four days from now
632. 22:26yeah did some swabs here and he would
633. 22:29have found your dna and my dna
634. 22:30and probably a lot of other people's dna
635. 22:32sure um a little bit gross to think
636. 22:34about but essentially
637. 22:36you know as we talk you know a little
638. 22:39bit aspirate comes out of our mouth
639. 22:41that uh that contains our dna our blood
640. 22:43or our skin cells contain our dna
641. 22:45and that's what i'm getting at if you
642. 22:46were ever in lori's residence
643. 22:48quite possibly quite innocently your dna
644. 22:51could be
645. 22:52uh in that residence has there ever been
646. 22:53a time you've been in there yeah
647. 22:55okay um what about the other lady down
648. 22:59the road
649. 22:59on uh i hadn't even heard that name so
650. 23:02no i don't i don't actually know who
651. 23:04that was okay have you ever
652. 23:06visited uh marie france como at her
653. 23:09residence no
654. 23:10okay all right um so you're quite
655. 23:12positive there'll be no reason why your
656. 23:14dna would be any of those
657. 23:15three locations okay um did you know
658. 23:19jessica lloyd even in passing for any
659. 23:21reason
660. 23:22no i didn't hear her name till it was on
661. 23:24the news
662. 23:25okay the reason i'm asking that is
663. 23:28because
664. 23:30i know you were asked that question on
665. 23:32thursday night and sometimes what we
666. 23:34find
667. 23:35and again this is one of those
668. 23:36situations that can sometimes cause us
669. 23:38to get in a lengthy investigation as
670. 23:39somebody that maybe doesn't deserve it
671. 23:42but what can happen sometimes is they
672. 23:44you know somebody gets stopped by the
673. 23:45police like you did
674. 23:47and they uh they get asked that question
675. 23:50and
676. 23:50people want to stop by the police they
677. 23:52can be nervous okay um
678. 23:54so they blurt out an answer and then
679. 23:56they start driving away and they go
680. 23:57why'd i do that
681. 23:58because the problem is once they uh get
682. 24:01asked again
683. 24:02then they feel compelled to maintain
684. 24:04that answer
685. 24:06for fear that if they change their
686. 24:08answers somebody could find it you
687. 24:09understand what i'm saying i do
688. 24:10okay so i want to make sure that's not
689. 24:12happening here i don't care what you
690. 24:13said to the officers on thursday night
691. 24:14last week if there's any uh
692. 24:17communication or contact between you and
693. 24:19jessica lloyd you've seen her picture
694. 24:21right around town
695. 24:22yeah okay ever seen her before
696. 24:25i don't no i would say i have not okay
697. 24:28all right
698. 24:29all right and you mentioned something
699. 24:31about uh doing some renovations at your
700. 24:33uh
701. 24:33at your property and tweed there um i
702. 24:36think you said something earlier about
703. 24:37tearing up carpet correct me if i'm
704. 24:39wrong but
705. 24:39okay when did all that happen in 2004
706. 24:44okay any recent uh renovations nope okay
707. 24:48all right
708. 24:56i just want to make sure i'm covering
709. 24:57all the bases here um
710. 25:02okay how tires do you have on your
711. 25:05pathfinder
712. 25:09i think um i think they're toyo
713. 25:26read this up to see if it rings a bell
714. 25:34ever heard of uh does toyo open country
715. 25:38hts that's making sense okay
716. 25:41when did you have those tires put on
717. 25:42your pathfinder
718. 25:45well it's the second version we've had
719. 25:47of them so
720. 25:51i think it might have been this past
721. 25:52fall they replaced
722. 25:55other ones we've had on the same okay
723. 25:58well toyo i can't
724. 25:59say that they were the same exactly the
725. 26:00same model but uh
726. 26:02our dealership here in ottawa says
727. 26:04they're very popular for the pathfinders
728. 26:06okay they were good they lasted a long
729. 26:08time all right
730. 26:10um i've had to
731. 26:14i think you were talking about the the
732. 26:15whole idea of the mps uh
733. 26:17helping us with their investigation you
734. 26:20have the same system as we do at our
735. 26:22headquarters with the swipe cards
736. 26:24um one of the things uh one of our
737. 26:26investigators is they made a call while
738. 26:27i was talking to you there
739. 26:29because we were trying to work through
740. 26:31that week of the the 23rd of november
741. 26:33okay 23rd being the monday 24th being
742. 26:36the tuesday okay
743. 26:37um what what they've what they've told
744. 26:40us
745. 26:40is that um and i want to make sure you
746. 26:42get this right
747. 26:44is that uh on the 23rd
748. 26:47uh your swipe card was being used at the
749. 26:49base okay
750. 26:50okay uh on tuesday 24th there was no use
751. 26:53of your swipe card
752. 26:54okay and then on the uh the following
753. 26:56days uh
754. 26:57wednesday thursday friday um there was
755. 26:59what appeared to be
756. 27:00average activity of your swipe card in
757. 27:02the base does that make sense to you
758. 27:03it does that that says that i was in
759. 27:06ottawa on the tuesday
760. 27:07okay do you remember where in ottawa you
761. 27:10were yeah i was
762. 27:11in gatineau with uh as i said meeting
763. 27:14about the
764. 27:14c-17 okay
765. 27:18now again i want to be fair to you here
766. 27:20we're going back two months
767. 27:21um are you sure that would have been the
768. 27:23uh the day you were in ottawa
769. 27:25well only because i wasn't at the base
770. 27:29okay so i i can't remember honestly that
771. 27:32that's the day i had the meeting in
772. 27:34ottawa but
773. 27:35if i wasn't at the base it was because i
774. 27:37was here okay
775. 27:38now if that is the day you had a meeting
776. 27:40in ottawa um do you remember
777. 27:42being at the base on the monday uh the
778. 27:4523rd
779. 27:46and swiping your card in and out do you
780. 27:47remember what you would have done that
781. 27:48evening to
782. 27:49to get to ottawa for that meeting like
783. 27:51would it be uh
784. 27:54i drove to ottawa in the morning of the
785. 27:56day of my meeting so if it was the
786. 27:58tuesday then i would have left a
787. 28:00tweet it was a very foggy morning okay
788. 28:03uh
789. 28:03that morning and i drove in that morning
790. 28:06okay so i would not have been at the
791. 28:08base uh
792. 28:10the day i was in because the meeting
793. 28:12started at 8 30 or something
794. 28:14okay so you leave the base you would
795. 28:16have went home to
796. 28:17to your residence and tweed yeah and
797. 28:20then you left tweet in the morning and
798. 28:21drove up your meeting in ottawa yeah
799. 28:22okay
800. 28:23um you leave the the meeting in ottawa
801. 28:26is a
802. 28:27daytime meeting evening meeting or do
803. 28:29you remember uh yeah it was a
804. 28:31daytime meeting finished i don't know
805. 28:32mid-afternoon or so okay
806. 28:34we had lunch and then uh finished i
807. 28:36think
808. 28:37my wife and i had dinner because she was
809. 28:39here for work and then i headed back
810. 28:41okay um well that's these are the kind
811. 28:44of things i'm trying to draw out here
812. 28:45that's helpful to us
813. 28:46um do you remember where you had dinner
814. 28:50uh well i don't remember exactly the
815. 28:52restaurant but it was in westboro
816. 28:53because that's where our house was being
817. 28:54built at the time so we
818. 28:56had dinner you know in a restaurant that
819. 28:58we would
820. 29:00expect to be able to frequent once the
821. 29:02house was finished
822. 29:03okay remember how you paid uh
823. 29:06one of us would have paid by mastercard
824. 29:09okay
825. 29:09are you sure about that or pretty sure
826. 29:12that's normally how we uh
827. 29:14okay we pay for meals all right i
828. 29:16remember it was me or my wife that paid
829. 29:17that one of us
830. 29:18okay and do you remember which
831. 29:19restaurant it was again no okay
832. 29:22all right and you see what i'm getting
833. 29:23at right i mean that can be very helpful
834. 29:26for us because if we can track
835. 29:28uh that issue right we can we can put
836. 29:30somebody paying for a meal
837. 29:32at a location with uh you know 15 people
838. 29:35or so that day so
839. 29:36okay what time did the meeting end
840. 29:41i would say between three and four okay
841. 29:44and um
842. 29:45are you sure that that's the same day
843. 29:46you went out with your wife
844. 29:49well
845. 29:53i think so yeah because she was here and
846. 29:55uh
847. 29:58i think that was the day we went to this
848. 30:00restaurant in west various
849. 30:01okay um you finished dinner
850. 30:04and you remember what you did that
851. 30:06evening
852. 30:09okay and you would have now
853. 30:12again i i know we're talking two months
854. 30:13ago here but do you remember
855. 30:14specifically
856. 30:15having dinner and then driving back to
857. 30:17tweed or uh do you remember
858. 30:19are you just guessing here
859. 30:23no i'm not really guessing i mean i i
860. 30:26believe that this night at this
861. 30:27restaurant
862. 30:28was following the meetings in ottawa
863. 30:31and i you know kissed my wife goodbye
864. 30:34and headed back to tweet to go to work
865. 30:36the next day
866. 30:37okay um all right
867. 30:41the uh the tires that you have on your
868. 30:44truck right the reason i asked you about
869. 30:45that is there
870. 30:46is there any time i mean you recall uh
871. 30:50where you were stopped
872. 30:51um by the officers there yes okay did
873. 30:54they explain to you what the
874. 30:55significance of that was your house that
875. 30:56was her house
876. 30:57right so you remember that location yeah
877. 30:59do you remember what the crossroad was
878. 31:00or
879. 31:02i don't think there was a crossroad it's
880. 31:03sort of just the south end of 37.
881. 31:06okay um when you get stopped at that
882. 31:09location
883. 31:11has there been a time in the recent uh
884. 31:13one or two weeks
885. 31:15that uh your vehicle has
886. 31:18left that road for any reason whatsoever
887. 31:20have you driven into a field with your
888. 31:21vehicle at all
889. 31:22um for any reason you can think of no
890. 31:25okay um because i want you to rack your
891. 31:28brain here this is important
892. 31:30is there anything you can remember doing
893. 31:31that uh you know
894. 31:34what caused you to to uh drive off the
895. 31:36road
896. 31:37at that section of roadway no that's my
897. 31:39early uh
898. 31:40that's the early part of the highway and
899. 31:41um just head north it's about 30 minutes
900. 31:44from there
901. 31:45to probably 20 from there to
902. 31:48my house okay would it surprise you to
903. 31:52know that
904. 31:53when the csi officers were looking
905. 31:56around
906. 31:57her property that they identified um
907. 32:00a set of tire tracks uh to the north of
908. 32:03her property
909. 32:04um looks as if the vehicle left the road
910. 32:08and uh drove along the north tree line
911. 32:10of jessica lloyd's property
912. 32:12okay um they took uh
913. 32:15they examined those tire tracks
914. 32:18and uh they have contacts in the tire
915. 32:22business obviously tire tracks are a
916. 32:23major source of
917. 32:24evidence for us sure shortly after
918. 32:28um this investigation started they
919. 32:30identified those tires
920. 32:32as the same tires on your pathfinder
921. 32:35really
922. 32:35yeah okay
923. 32:38okay one of the other uh one of the
924. 32:41other things that they do
925. 32:42to try and identify the type of vehicle
926. 32:43that may have left those tires
927. 32:45well as they do two things they they
928. 32:46talk to witnesses okay
929. 32:49there was a female police officer that
930. 32:52actually drove by that location
931. 32:54that evening and recall seeing an suv
932. 32:57type vehicle in the field to the north
933. 32:59of jessica lloyd's house
934. 33:01uh consistent with a pathfinder okay it
935. 33:03may be consistent with other things
936. 33:04because there's a little
937. 33:05fire um and the
938. 33:09what they also do to try and identify
939. 33:10the type of the vehicle is they look at
940. 33:13uh what they call the wheel base width
941. 33:15okay because different vehicles
942. 33:16different makes models have wheelbase
943. 33:18width so they can take those two sets of
944. 33:19tire tracks
945. 33:20measure the distance between them okay
946. 33:23and determine
947. 33:24what the uh the width is sure and then
948. 33:26they can enter that into a vehicle
949. 33:28database and it will spit out the types
950. 33:29of vehicles
951. 33:30okay your pathfinder's
952. 33:34wheelbase width is very very close to
953. 33:37the width of the
954. 33:38of the tires that were left in that
955. 33:40field
956. 33:41okay do you have any recollection at all
957. 33:45of being off that road
958. 33:48okay all right russell
959. 33:52um is there anything you can think of
960. 33:56let's go talk about marie franz cuomo
961. 33:58for a minute okay
962. 34:00is there any reason at all you can think
963. 34:03of
964. 34:04that during our investigation obviously
965. 34:07we're searching uh
966. 34:08computers uh things like blackberries
967. 34:11right
968. 34:12electronic devices uh looking through
969. 34:15houses for
970. 34:16things that are in handwriting written
971. 34:17notes diaries things like that
972. 34:20now i'm not a liberty to tell you what
973. 34:22the content was but is there any reason
974. 34:24at all you can think of
975. 34:25why marie france como would have
976. 34:28specifically
977. 34:29referenced you in some of her some of
978. 34:32her writings
979. 34:34not at all no no absolutely
980. 34:38okay is there anything that she ever
981. 34:40said to you that led you to believe that
982. 34:42there might be something
983. 34:44more than a passing interest with her
984. 34:45towards you
985. 34:47not at all no we spent you know one
986. 34:49flight
987. 34:50together talking i'd go back
988. 34:52occasionally and talk
989. 34:55no if that's the case that's
990. 34:58that's very surprising okay all right um
991. 35:02you have any questions for me right now
992. 35:03no okay i'm just gonna step out and see
993. 35:06how things are going okay
994. 35:07i mean it is a sunday but there's
995. 35:08probably 60 70 people working on this
996. 35:10file so there's a lot of things
997. 35:11happening
998. 35:11sure uh so let me go out and see what's
999. 35:13happening and then i'll i'll come back
1000. 35:14in and
1001. 35:15we'll hopefully continue okay i told you
1002. 35:18when i came in here
1003. 35:19that i'm going to treat you with respect
1004. 35:21and i've asked you to do the same for me
1005. 35:25we talked about the whole idea of how
1006. 35:27we've uh approached you here okay
1007. 35:30uh the trying to be as just great as
1008. 35:32possible
1009. 35:34okay but the problem is russell is every
1010. 35:36time i walk out of this room
1011. 35:38there's another issue that comes up okay
1012. 35:40and it's not issues that point away from
1013. 35:42you
1014. 35:42it's issues that point at you okay and i
1015. 35:45wanna i want you to see what i mean
1016. 35:46all right
1017. 35:51this is the footwear impression
1018. 35:55of the person who approached
1019. 35:58the rear of jessica lloyd's house on the
1020. 36:02evening of the 28th and 29th of january
1021. 36:05okay all right now i want you to keep in
1022. 36:08mind that this is slightly smaller
1023. 36:10okay in scale okay okay all right that's
1024. 36:13not to scale that's
1025. 36:14the footwear is actually bigger if you
1026. 36:16look here on the ruler
1027. 36:18you'll see that uh one inch is just
1028. 36:20slightly smaller than actual inch
1029. 36:22okay but this is the way it prints off
1030. 36:23on the computer
1031. 36:26i'm gonna move this over so you can see
1032. 36:27what i mean all right essentially when
1033. 36:30you're dealing with footwear impressions
1034. 36:31um we have a gentleman on the opp who's
1035. 36:34basically world renowned uh his name is
1036. 36:36john norman
1037. 36:37and essentially with footwear
1038. 36:39impressions uh you're in a situation
1039. 36:41where you're
1040. 36:42you're pretty much in the area of a
1041. 36:44fingerprints
1042. 36:45okay and essentially what we're talking
1043. 36:48about here is
1044. 36:49especially when you start adding in
1045. 36:50other pieces of information that
1046. 36:53support uh an investigative position
1047. 36:56okay
1048. 37:01this is a photocopy of the boot
1049. 37:04that you took off your foot yeah just a
1050. 37:06little while ago okay
1051. 37:08now i'm not an expert in footwear
1052. 37:11impressions so i rely on the experts
1053. 37:14footwear impressions are very much like
1054. 37:16uh like fingerprint comparisons
1055. 37:18okay you take a look at this print and
1056. 37:21again this is one print
1057. 37:22this person walked through there's
1058. 37:24several different prints to compare
1059. 37:26so we're going to get features off of
1060. 37:27one print to compare features offer
1061. 37:28another print and compare
1062. 37:31these are identical
1063. 37:37okay your vehicle
1064. 37:40drove up the side of jessica lloyd's
1065. 37:41house
1066. 37:43your boots walked to the back of jessica
1067. 37:46lloyd's house
1068. 37:48on the evening of the 28th and 29th of
1069. 37:50january
1070. 37:52okay you want discretion we need to
1071. 37:55have some honesty okay because this is
1072. 37:58this is
1073. 37:59getting out of control really fast
1074. 38:00russell
1075. 38:02okay really really fast
1076. 38:20this is getting beyond my control
1077. 38:24all right i came in here a few hours ago
1078. 38:28and i called you the way i called you
1079. 38:30today because i wanted to give you the
1080. 38:31benefit out
1081. 38:32but you and i both know you're at
1082. 38:35jessica lloyd's house
1083. 38:37and i need to know why
1084. 38:46[Music]
1085. 39:12well you need to explain it because this
1086. 39:14is the other problem we're having
1087. 39:16russell
1088. 39:16okay again these decisions are made by
1089. 39:18me
1090. 39:20right now there's a search warrant being
1091. 39:22executed at your residence
1092. 39:26so your wife now knows what's going on
1093. 39:29there's a search warrant being executed
1094. 39:30at the your residence in tweed
1095. 39:33and your vehicle has been seized okay
1096. 39:36you and i both know they're going to
1097. 39:38find evidence that links
1098. 39:40you to these situations
1099. 39:44okay you and i both know that the
1100. 39:46unknown offender
1101. 39:48male 1
1102. 39:51on marie france cuomo's body is going to
1103. 39:54be matched to you
1104. 39:56quite possibly before the evening's over
1105. 39:59okay this is a major investigation the
1106. 40:02center forensic science is on call 24
1107. 40:04hours a day helping us with this
1108. 40:08your opportunity to take some control
1109. 40:10here
1110. 40:12and to have some explanation that
1111. 40:14anybody is going to believe
1112. 40:17is quickly
1113. 40:22expiring
1114. 40:24okay we're applying the investigators
1115. 40:27now
1116. 40:28applying for a warrant to search your
1117. 40:29office
1118. 40:33these aren't decisions that we can say
1119. 40:35yes or no to this is a
1120. 40:37practical steps in an investigation like
1121. 40:39this
1122. 40:42and russell
1123. 41:03russell to me for a second okay
1124. 41:07and that evidence comes in when that dna
1125. 41:09match when that phone rings and somebody
1126. 41:11knocks on this door
1127. 41:15your credibility is gone okay because
1128. 41:18this is how credibility works all right
1129. 41:20and i know you're an intelligent person
1130. 41:22and you probably don't need to hear this
1131. 41:23explanation but i also know your mind's
1132. 41:24racing right now
1133. 41:26okay because i've sat across a lot of
1134. 41:28people in your position over the years
1135. 41:30okay the bottom line is is that as soon
1136. 41:33as
1137. 41:33we get that that piece of evidence that
1138. 41:36solidifies it
1139. 41:37dna okay as soon as the expert
1140. 41:41in footwear impressions the expert
1141. 41:43entire impression
1142. 41:44calls and says yes i've examined those
1143. 41:48and their match
1144. 41:51it's all over because as soon as that
1145. 41:53happens
1146. 41:56where's your credibility where's your
1147. 41:57believability you're just another
1148. 42:00uh and again don't take this wrong
1149. 42:03okay but you can see if you step outside
1150. 42:06this room
1151. 42:07in your mind and imagine how people are
1152. 42:09going to view you
1153. 42:11okay if the truth comes out
1154. 42:14after the clear evidence is presented to
1155. 42:17you
1156. 42:17when you finally go okay i'm screwed now
1157. 42:23what are we going to do
1158. 42:33russell you know there's only one option
1159. 42:36what do you what do you what other
1160. 42:38option is there
1161. 42:39what's the option well i don't think you
1162. 42:42want the cold-blooded psychopath option
1163. 42:49i might be wrong
1164. 42:53okay because don't get me wrong i've met
1165. 42:54guys who actually kind of enjoyed the
1166. 42:57notoriety
1167. 42:58got off on it got off on having that
1168. 43:01label
1169. 43:03bernardo being one of them i don't see
1170. 43:06that in you
1171. 43:07if i saw that you i wouldn't be back in
1172. 43:08your talking to you quite frankly
1173. 43:17but maybe i'm wrong maybe you got me
1174. 43:19fooled i don't know
1175. 43:26this is over
1176. 43:30and it can have a a bad ending
1177. 43:35where jessica's parents continue
1178. 43:40wonder where her daughter's lying
1179. 43:47i don't know i mean obviously there's a
1180. 43:50huge search still underway and it'll
1181. 43:52continue
1182. 43:54it'll continue until her body's found
1183. 44:00that might even happen tonight for all i
1184. 44:02know
1185. 44:06once that happens then i don't know what
1186. 44:10other cards you would have to play
1187. 44:20what are we gonna do
1188. 44:53russell
1189. 44:57what are we gonna do
1190. 45:04i'll make rust please okay
1191. 45:10i'm gonna rest
1192. 45:30so
1193. 45:37is jessica somewhere we can find her
1194. 45:39easily
1195. 45:41like is this something where i can make
1196. 45:42a call and tell somebody to go to a
1197. 45:44location and they're going to find her
1198. 45:45or is this something where we have to go
1199. 45:46and
1200. 45:50take a walk
1201. 46:16which direction are we heading in here
1202. 47:02russ maybe maybe this would help
1203. 47:05can you tell me what the issue is you're
1204. 47:08struggling with
1205. 47:34what's the issue you're struggling with
1206. 48:18oh
1207. 48:32so
1208. 48:39it's hard to believe this is not
1209. 48:45why is that
1210. 49:09why is it hard to believe
1211. 49:31it's just it's hard to believe
1212. 49:38whose decision was it and
1213. 49:42we're going to find out the answer to
1214. 49:43this anyway but
1215. 49:45whose decision was it to issue the
1216. 49:47directive
1217. 49:48to the base personnel that nobody had to
1218. 49:51speak to the police and to seek legal
1219. 49:52counsel before they were questioned
1220. 50:00my understanding that direction came
1221. 50:02from somebody that reports to you
1222. 50:05what do you think they're going to say
1223. 50:07russ
1224. 50:08no what do you think they're going to
1225. 50:10say all right and
1226. 50:11let's let's step back for a second here
1227. 50:13okay
1228. 50:15i really don't think it benefits you or
1229. 50:17makes you look any better
1230. 50:18to start debating the little issues
1231. 50:20right but that is news to me
1232. 50:21okay i have a legal officer that reports
1233. 50:24to me
1234. 50:24yeah who may have given that direction
1235. 50:27but that's the first time i've heard if
1236. 50:28that's true
1237. 50:29that's the first time i've heard that
1238. 50:30all right and that may be the case
1239. 50:32but how does it look
1240. 50:38right we're not even in dealing with
1241. 50:40something that's really
1242. 50:41even evidence because it's not needed i
1243. 50:43mean they have dna and all this other
1244. 50:45stuff
1245. 50:46that's not even what was the direction i
1246. 50:48don't recall but it was something along
1247. 50:50the lines of uh
1248. 50:52telling the people on the base that they
1249. 50:53didn't uh they weren't required
1250. 50:55illegally to speak with police and they
1251. 50:57should seek legal counsel before they
1252. 50:58decided to speak
1253. 51:00but well if that was if that was
1254. 51:02actually said it would not have been to
1255. 51:03the base
1256. 51:04at large it may have been to the
1257. 51:06individual the
1258. 51:07uh the boyfriend who is the suspect
1259. 51:10okay my understanding it went out to all
1260. 51:11personnel maybe maybe no only under your
1261. 51:14command i don't know
1262. 51:15okay that's fine that's fine now let's
1263. 51:18get back to the issue
1264. 51:19what's that so you talk about perception
1265. 51:22my only two immediate concerns from a
1266. 51:24perception perspective
1267. 51:25are what my wife must be going through
1268. 51:29right now
1269. 51:29yeah and the impact this is going to
1270. 51:33have on the canadian forces
1271. 51:34where do we go
1272. 51:53first is there anything you want from me
1273. 51:57is there anything you want me to explain
1274. 52:01is there something missing that you're
1275. 52:02struggling with that i can
1276. 52:04shed some light on for you
1277. 52:13i'm struggling with how upset my life is
1278. 52:16right now
1279. 52:17russ what are you looking for
1280. 52:28i'm concerned that they're tearing apart
1281. 52:30my wife's brand new house
1282. 52:32so am i
1283. 52:36but if nobody tells them what's there
1284. 52:39what's not they don't have any choice
1285. 52:44computers will be brought to microsoft
1286. 52:46in california they'll be
1287. 52:48they'll be picked apart you can't erase
1288. 52:52things from computers it doesn't happen
1289. 52:55i'm sure you've seen that i'm sure
1290. 52:57that's pretty common knowledge these
1291. 52:58days it just doesn't happen
1292. 53:00they sell programs that uh to try and
1293. 53:04help people
1294. 53:05clean their computers of stuff and our
1295. 53:07guys are pulling that stuff out all the
1296. 53:09time
1297. 53:09the fbi is pulling that stuff out all
1298. 53:11the time
1299. 53:20this investigation will end up costing
1300. 53:23no less than 10 million dollars
1301. 53:28easy
1302. 53:31and they will say no to nothing
1303. 53:36any request this major case manager
1304. 53:39makes on this case
1305. 53:40they've already been told it's approved
1306. 53:44don't even bother asking
1307. 54:16so what am i doing russ
1308. 54:20i put my best foot forward here for you
1309. 54:22but
1310. 54:29i really have i don't i don't know what
1311. 54:31else to do to
1312. 54:33make you understand the impact of what's
1313. 54:34happening here
1314. 54:54do we talk
1315. 54:58i want to um
1316. 55:02minimize the impact on my life so do i
1317. 55:10so do we do that well
1318. 55:13we start by telling the truth
1319. 55:32so
1320. 55:43okay okay
1321. 55:47so where is she
1322. 56:10get him out
1323. 56:16you