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CIA Director John Brennan appears before the Senate Intelligence Committee — Transcript

by Senator Richard Burr - North Carolina · 16,742 words · 2,500 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:05I'd like to welcome our witness today
0:06Central intelligent agency director John
0:09Brennan John you appropriately note in
0:12your opening statement that this hearing
0:15takes place against the backdrop of a
0:18heinous act of violence perpetrated by a
0:22troubled and evil person the committee
0:25has been consistent in consistent
0:27contact with the FBI from early morning
0:29hour hours on Sunday and it's been
0:32provided a great deal of information on
0:34the status of the
0:35investigation I know that your team
0:37along with your the intelligence
0:39Community Partners are also working to
0:41determine if the killer had any
0:43connections to a foreign terrorist group
0:46like
0:46ISO let me thank your officers for what
0:50they do and for the long hours that they
0:54are likely putting in to understand this
0:56tragedy while also focusing on a wide
0:59range of threats facing our nation Mr
1:02director I know your organization stands
1:05understands the threat posed by isil and
1:08there's been much public discussion
1:10about progress the US Le Coalition has
1:13made to contain isil
1:16geographically to degrade its finance
1:18and media operations and to remove its
1:21fighters from the battlefield however
1:23however while progress may have been
1:25made against those goals you note in
1:28your statement that our efforts have not
1:30reduced the group's terrorism capability
1:34and Global reach that assessment is
1:37significant I want to take this moment
1:39to speak not only to you but also to the
1:43American people we live in an open
1:46Society one that values freedoms and
1:49diversity the Islamic state is
1:51recruiting individuals by leveraging
1:54that freedom and taking advantage of
1:56misguided hate to attack us and in doing
2:00so to divide us isil's Global
2:03Battlefield now includes the United
2:05States and we cannot stand idly by we
2:09must take the fight to them we must
2:12attack them where they raise money where
2:15they plan where they recruit and we must
2:18deny them a safe
2:21haven we cannot negotiate with extremist
2:24who seek only to kill and I don't think
2:27we
2:28will I'm not willing to accept the
2:31events of San Bernardino and Orlando as
2:34The New
2:35Normal nor should
2:37anyone we should be able to live
2:40securely in a free society and I think
2:43we will and we're not alone our friends
2:46in Europe Asia and across the world
2:48should be able to go to sporting events
2:50concerts dance clubs and experience life
2:53with their families in
2:56safety we will unite as a nation and as
2:59a coalition
3:00to confront isil and deny them safe
3:02haven but we can only do so with a re
3:05with a realistic proactive aggressive
3:08and well-defined strategy and
3:11frankly we have to own it and embrace it
3:16now's not the time to pay lip service to
3:18these threats the sooner as a nation the
3:21sooner we as a nation realize that there
3:25is only one path for us to take at this
3:27juncture the sooner we will dest destroy
3:30isil's capabilities and ensure the
3:32continued safety of our
3:34nation John I don't make these comments
3:37lightly and I'm confident uh we will
3:39highlight during your testimony these
3:40and other threats to our
3:42nation but before I turn to the vice
3:44chairman um I would ask you to relay
3:47something to your entire
3:49organization uh our thanks and our
3:52appreciation for their work um your
3:55officers work in the shadows often in
3:58austere and dangerous environment ments
4:00day in and day out to keep us safe their
4:04selfless dedication to their fellow
4:06citizens should be commended and we are
4:09in debt for that
4:12service Mr director I thank you for
4:14being here today and I now turn to the
4:16vice chairman for any comments she might
4:17have thanks very much Mr chairman and I
4:21don't want to repeat what You' said I
4:23think you've said it very well and uh
4:25I'm very strongly in agreement with it
4:28but I'd like to talk about a slightly uh
4:31different dimension I think it's
4:34becoming apparent that the tragedy of
4:37the last weekend in Orlando highlights
4:40one of the great difficulties this
4:42nation faces with the rise of the
4:45Islamic State this enemy is very
4:48different from past adversaries like
4:51Al-Qaeda because isil not only seeks to
4:54control territory in several countries
4:57but is taking advantage of Technology
4:59and social media to recruit Fighters and
5:03Inspire terrorist attacks far from the
5:07battlefield this trend concerns me
5:10greatly according to the president and
5:13the FBI director the killer in Orlando
5:16was inspired at a minimum influenced by
5:20online terrorist material similar online
5:24excuse me propaganda played important
5:27roles in the shootings in San ber Dino
5:30uh Chattanooga Garland Texas as well as
5:34Fort Hood Texas and other attacks so
5:38director Brennan I hope you can assure
5:40this committee and the American people
5:43because this is an opportunity to do so
5:46that the CIA is doing everything in its
5:48power to understand how these foreign
5:51organizations work and operate I think
5:55such knowledge is essential to help
5:57policy makers shape laws and counter
6:00isil's online efforts so that we stop
6:03them from incessantly praying on atrisk
6:06individuals and radicalizing them to
6:09conduct such heinous crimes um I'd like
6:13to ask that you update us on cia's
6:17understanding of the extent and reach of
6:20isil and the implications for those of
6:23us here at home and for our friends and
6:26allies overseas I think there's been
6:28some important progress lately and I
6:31think it's important to share that
6:33progress with the people on Tuesday the
6:37president publicly listed some of the
6:39senior leaders of isil who have been
6:41killed and I think that's welcome news
6:45secondly we would like the CIA
6:47assessment on whether the 13,000
6:50Coalition air strikes against isil have
6:53been effective and what sorts of targets
6:56have most set back isil's efforts we
7:00know that Iraqi forces have surrounded
7:02fuia and begun to move into the city
7:05Iraqi forces have recently liberated the
7:09Strategic town of hit and broke the isil
7:12siege of haditha isil has now lost
7:15nearly half the populated territory it
7:19once controlled in Iraq isil continues
7:23to look lose ground in Syria as well a
7:26coalition of local forces is now
7:29pressuring ing the key town of munby
7:32which will cut isil smuggling routs into
7:35turkey hopefully and put substantial
7:37pressure on the capital of rqa in some I
7:41think it would be helpful for America to
7:44really understand whether the anti-isil
7:48Coalition that the United States has put
7:50together is making progress if so how
7:54and where in addition to isil I would be
7:58very interested Ed in hearing from you
8:01on other Global threats to the United
8:03States and the challenges that you
8:05believe we face in particular I think
8:08all of us are concerned about the recent
8:11behavior of North Korea the
8:13aggressiveness of Russia China's actions
8:16in the South China Sea and the
8:19instability in North Africa in
8:22particular so I thank you Mr chairman
8:24for holding this hearing and I really
8:26look forward to the discussion thank you
8:29Vice chairman um Mr director we're going
8:32to be joined by a lot of members as is
8:35evident that they really don't care what
8:37Diane and I say but when they see that
8:38you're on speak for
8:40yourself no no he's speaking for all of
8:43them they they will be here quickly we
8:47again thank you for being here we thank
8:50you for what uh the agency does day in
8:53and day out and the floor is now yours
8:56well thank you very much chairman bur
8:57and vice chairman Feinstein and members
8:59of the committee thank you for inviting
9:01me to speak to you today in an open
9:03hearing about the Central Intelligence
9:05Agency an agency and a Workforce that I
9:08am enormously proud to be part of I am
9:11privileged every day to lead the women
9:13and men of CIA as they work around the
9:15clock and around the world often in
9:18difficult and even dangerous locations
9:20to help keep our country strong and free
9:22and our fellow citizens safe and secure
9:26our hearing today as you noted takes
9:27place against the backdrop of a he Act
9:29of want and violence that was
9:31perpetrated against Innocents in Orlando
9:33Florida last weekend we join the family
9:35and friends in mourning the loss of
9:37their loved ones who were killed in the
9:39attack we extend our best wishes for a
9:41full and speedy recovery of all those
9:43injured this act of violence was an
9:45assault on the values of openness and
9:47tolerance that Define us as a nation in
9:50light of the events in Orlando I would
9:52like to take this opportunity to offer
9:53the committee our assessment of the
9:55terrorist threat our nation and citizens
9:56face especially from the so-called Islam
9:59state of Iraq and Levant or
10:01isil on the battlefields of Syria and
10:04Iraq the us-led Coalition has made
10:06important progress against isil the
10:08group appears to be a long way from
10:10realizing the vision that abub Bakr Al
10:12bagdadi its leader laid out when he
10:15declared the caliphate two years ago in
10:17mosul several notable indicators are
10:20trending in the right direction isil has
10:22lost large stretches of territory in
10:24both Syria and Iraq its Finance immedia
10:27operations have been squeezed and it has
10:30struggled to replenish the ranks of its
10:32fighters in part because fewer foreign
10:34Fighters are now now able to travel to
10:37Syria moreover some reports suggest that
10:39a growing number of iso members are
10:41becoming disillusioned with the group
10:43and are eager to follow in the footsteps
10:45of members who have already
10:47defected the anti-isil Coalition is
10:49taking steps to exploit these
10:51vulnerabilities in addition to efforts
10:53underway to liberate cities like fuah
10:56and manage the Coalition is also
10:58removing isol leaders from the
11:00battlefield thereby reducing the group's
11:02capabilities and its will to fight last
11:05month for example a US air strike killed
11:08an influential ISO leader in Al
11:10anbar isil however is a formidable
11:14resilient and largely cohesive enemy and
11:16we anticipate that the group will adjust
11:18its strategy and tactics in an effort to
11:21regain
11:22momentum in the coming months we can
11:24expect isil to probe the front lines of
11:26its adversaries on the battlefield for
11:27weaknesses to harass the forces that are
11:30holding the cities it previously
11:32controlled and to conduct Terror attacks
11:34against its enemies inside Iraq and
11:37Syria to compensate for territorial
11:39losses Isa will probably rely more on
11:42Guerilla tactics including high-profile
11:44attacks outside the territory in Syria
11:47and Iraq that it currently holds a
11:49steady stream of attacks in Baghdad and
11:51Damascus demonstrates the group's
11:53ability to penetrate deep inside enemy
11:56strongholds Beyond its losses on the
11:58battlefield field isil's finances are
12:00also taking a hit Coalition efforts have
12:03reduced the group's ability to generate
12:05revenue and have forced it to cut cost
12:07and to reallocate
12:09funds yet isil is adap adapting to the
12:12coalition's efforts and it continues to
12:14generate at least tens of millions of
12:16dollars in Revenue per month primarily
12:19from taxation in those areas that it
12:21controls and from crude oil sales on the
12:23black and gray markets inside of Syria
12:25and Iraq unfortunately despite all our
12:29progress against isil on the battlefield
12:30and in the financial realm our efforts
12:33have not reduced the group's terrorism
12:35capability and Global reach the
12:37resources needed for terrorism are very
12:39modest and the group would have to
12:41suffer even heavier losses on territory
12:44Manpower and money for its terrorist
12:46capacity to decline
12:48significantly moreover the group's
12:50foreign branches and Global networks can
12:52help preserve its capacity for terrorism
12:54regardless of events in Iraq and Syria
12:57in fact as the pressure mounts on isil
13:00we judge that it will intensify its
13:01Global Terror campaign to maintain its
13:04dominance of the global terrorism
13:06agenda since at least 2014 isil has been
13:09working to build an apparatus to direct
13:11and Inspire attacks against its foreign
13:14enemies resulting in hundreds of
13:16casualties the most prominent examples
13:18are the attacks in Paris and Brussels
13:20which we assess were directed by isil's
13:23leadership we judge that isil is
13:26training and attempting to deploy
13:27operatives for further attack
13:30isil has a large Cadre of Western
13:32fighters who could potentially serve as
13:34operatives for attacks in the west and
13:37the group is probably exploring a
13:38variety of means for infiltrating
13:40operatives into the West including in
13:42Refugee flows smuggling routes and
13:44legitimate methods of
13:46travel furthermore as we have seen in
13:48Orlando San Bernardino and elsewhere
13:51isil is attempting to inspire attacks by
13:54sympathizers who have no direct links to
13:56the group last month for example a
13:59senior isil figure publicly urged the
14:01group's followers to conduct attacks in
14:03their home countries if they were unable
14:05to travel to Syria and Iraq at the same
14:08time isil is gradually cultivating its
14:10Global Network of branches into a more
14:13interconnected Global
14:15organization the branch in Libya is
14:18probably the most developed and the most
14:19dangerous we assess that it is trying to
14:22increase its influence in Africa and to
14:24plot attacks in the region and in
14:27Europe meanwhile I Sinai branch in Egypt
14:31has established itself as the most
14:32active and capable terrorist group in
14:34all of Egypt the branch focuses its
14:37attacks on Egyptian Military and
14:38government targets but has also targeted
14:41foreigners and tourists as we saw with
14:43the Downing of a Russian passenger debt
14:45La jet last
14:46October other branches worldwide while
14:49also a concerned have struggled to gain
14:51traction the Yemen Branch for instance
14:54has been Riven with factionalism and the
14:56Afghanistan Pakistan branch has
14:58struggled to Main maintain its cohesion
15:00in part because of competition with the
15:03Taliban finally on the propaganda front
15:05the Coalition is working to counter
15:07isil's expansive propaganda machine isil
15:10paints a carefully crafted image to the
15:12outside world lauding its own military
15:15efforts portraying its so-called
15:16caliphate as a thriving State and
15:18alleging that the group is expanding
15:20globally even as it faces setbacks
15:23locally isil releases a multitude of
15:26media products on a variety of platforms
15:28including social media mobile
15:30applications radio and hard copy mediums
15:33to disseminate its official online
15:35propaganda the group primarily uses
15:37Twitter Telegram and Tumblr and it
15:39relies on a Global Network of
15:41sympathizers to further spread its
15:43messages in some ISO remains a
15:46formidable adversary but the United
15:48States and our Global Partners have
15:50succeeded in putting the group on the
15:51defensive forcing it to devote more time
15:54and energy to try to hold territory and
15:56to protect its vital infrastructure
15:58inside of Syria and Iraq and though this
16:01will be a long and difficult fight there
16:03is Broad agreement in the International
16:05Community on the seriousness of the
16:06threat and on the need to meet it
16:08collectively and decisively it also
16:11dominates my conversations with my
16:13intelligence and security counterparts
16:15globally worldwide I frequently engage
16:18with them about what we need to do
16:19together in terms of information sharing
16:21joint operational activity and being
16:23able to complement our respective
16:25strengths and capabilities so that we
16:27can destroy isil thoroughly
16:30now as you well know CIA is not just a
16:32counter tourism agency we are a
16:34comprehensive intelligence service with
16:36a global Charter and we're called upon
16:38to address the full range of 21st
16:39century threats and as I often tell
16:42young officers at CIA I have never seen
16:44a time when our country faced such a
16:47wide variety of threats to our national
16:49security if you run your fingers along
16:51almost any portion of the map from Asia
16:53Pacific to North Africa and you will
16:55quickly find a flasho with global
16:57implications China is modernizing its
17:00military and extending its reach in the
17:01South China Sea North Korea is expanding
17:04its nuclear weapons program Russia is
17:07threatening its neighbors and
17:08aggressively reasserting itself on the
17:09global stage and then there is the Cyber
17:12domain where States and subnational
17:14actors are threatening Financial systems
17:16Transportation networks and
17:18organizations of every stripe inside
17:20government and out and I particularly
17:22appreciate the work of this committee to
17:23try to come to grips and to address the
17:25Cyber threats we face as a nation in the
17:28fa of these many daunting challenges our
17:30nation depends on CIA and our
17:32intelligence Community Partners to help
17:34keep our country strong and secure
17:36indeed in today's volatile and complex
17:38World policy makers depend on CIA more
17:41than ever for intelligence insight and
17:44options if we are to meet the National
17:46Security challenges that confront us we
17:48must constantly adapt and innovate and
17:50that is why we announced a comprehensive
17:52effort last year to modernize our agency
17:54for the future since launching our
17:56modernization program just over 15
17:58months ago we have taken important steps
18:00to ensure that our agency fully adapts
18:02to the challenges of our time now we
18:05still have work to do and in some
18:07respects we always will that's because
18:09modernization about is about more than
18:11lines and boxes on an organizational
18:13chart it is also about a mindset a
18:15commitment to innovate constantly so we
18:17can keep up with an everchanging World a
18:20key part of this mindset is our
18:22commitment to making our Workforce as
18:24diverse as the world we cover just last
18:26week the office of the Director of
18:28National Intelligence issued a report
18:30showing that the intelligence Community
18:31is significantly less diverse than the
18:33rest of the federal Workforce is a
18:35report that forces those of us to the
18:37intelligence Community to confront some
18:38hard truths about who we are and how we
18:41are performing our mission as this
18:43committee knows tiia recently unveiled a
18:45landmark effort to make sure that our
18:46Workforce reflects in our attitudes our
18:49backgrounds our ethnicities and our
18:51perspectives the nation we works so hard
18:53to defend this is both a moral and a
18:55mission imperative I truly believe that
18:58the business case for diversity is
19:00stronger for CIA than it is for any
19:02other organization in the US government
19:04diversity not only gives us the cultural
19:06understanding we need to operate in any
19:08corner of the globe it also helps us
19:10avoid group think ensuring we bring to
19:12bear a range of perspectives on the
19:14complex challenges that are inherent to
19:16intelligence work and again I would like
19:18to thank the committee for its support
19:19for the CIA and for our intelligence
19:21Community Partners through the course of
19:23the year and I look forward to
19:24addressing your questions thank you Mr
19:28director thank thank you for that uh
19:30testimony note to members we will do
19:33five minute rounds based upon
19:36seniority Mr director you lead an
19:39organization with a unique insight into
19:42Global events unprecedented access to
19:45the entire world and highly trained
19:47officers who possess a wide range of
19:50range of talents and skills to the
19:53extent that you can discuss in this
19:55setting do you believe that you have the
19:58all the authorities you need to
20:00accomplish your
20:03mission Senator I believe that we have a
20:06great deal of authorities and and very
20:09important and solemn authorities to
20:10carry out our mission and we try to do
20:12it to the best of our ability the one
20:14area When I Look To The Future that
20:16concerns me is in that digital domain
20:19which is why we set up a fifth
20:20directorate the first time in 50 years
20:22we set up a new directorate so that
20:23we're able to understand all of the
20:25implications the vulnerabilities and the
20:28opportunities that that digital domain
20:30presents as I know this committee and
20:32others here in the Congress are
20:34grappling with the issue about the role
20:36of government in that digital domain law
20:39enforcement intelligence and security
20:41organizations I do wonder whether or not
20:43we as a government have the ability to
20:46be able to um monitor that domain from
20:50the standpoint of identifying those
20:52threats toward National Security that we
20:54need just the way we have within the
20:56physical domain the maritime domain the
20:58the aviation domain the uh consensus
21:02about how the government has an
21:04obligation to protect its citizens in
21:07those various domains the digital domain
21:09is a new domain it is the the New
21:11Frontier and I do not believe our legal
21:14Frameworks as well as our organizational
21:16structures and our capabilities are yet
21:20at the point of being able to deal with
21:22the challenges in that digital main that
21:24we need to have in the future so this is
21:27the one area that I encourage the
21:29committee the Congress this
21:31Administration next Administration to
21:32continue to work on particularly as this
21:35country is going to be part of the
21:37Internet of Things where virtually every
21:40type of electronic and mobile device is
21:42going to be connected to this internet
21:44that interconnectedness gives us
21:47tremendous convenience in our lives but
21:49it also creates inherent vulnerabilities
21:51that are adversaries whether they be
21:53nation states or individual actors or
21:54groups will take advantage of and so
21:56that's the area that I'm concerned that
21:58the authorities not just of CIA but of
22:00FBI and NSA really need to be looked at
22:03very carefully as you know the committee
22:05is extremely engaged in that side and
22:07our our hope is that uh we can continue
22:11to make progress at understanding what
22:13the structure should be in the future
22:15you note in your opening statement that
22:17the CIA is not just a counterterrorism
22:19agency but an intelligence service with
22:21a a global Charter do you believe your
22:24organization focuses too much of its
22:26time and resources on the terrorist
22:30threat I think as this committee knows
22:33very well that the terrorist threat has
22:35loomed large since 91 it has presented a
22:37serious threat not just to our national
22:39security interests worldwide but also to
22:41our beloved Homeland which is why the
22:44CIA has been called upon to help to lead
22:47this fight and to take the fight to
22:48terrorist organizations so we can defeat
22:50them abroad so they're not able to carry
22:52out their wanting depraved acts here in
22:55our homeland uh CIA has multiple
22:58missions we have the clandestine
23:00collection Mission both human and
23:01Technical we have the all Source
23:03analytic Mission so that we can provide
23:05our policy makers and Congress with the
23:06insights that they need we have The
23:08Counter Intelligence mission to make
23:09sure that we protect ourselves from
23:11those adversaries who are trying to
23:13steal our secrets we also have a covert
23:17action Mission which involves a
23:18paramilitary dimension and given our
23:20roots in the office of strategic
23:22Services during World War II since our
23:24birth in 1947 every Administration has
23:26taken advantage of CI
23:29tremendous capabilities in that covert
23:31action paramilitary realm and as we
23:34fight terrorists on the battlefields of
23:36Syria and Iraq and Yemen and Libya and
23:38other areas I think cia's formidable
23:40capabilities in this area are going to
23:42be called upon increasingly in the
23:43future I also would add one other uh
23:47component to those missions and that's
23:49on the liaison front our partners we
23:51need to make sure that we develop the
23:52Partnerships that we need so that we can
23:54leverage their capabilities because as
23:56good as CIA is we're not able to
23:58confront all these challenges globally
24:00simultaneously at the same time we need
24:02to develop the professionalism of these
24:03other services and we want to make sure
24:05that they're able to fulfill their
24:07obligations of intelligence
24:08organizations and they're not subject to
24:10the whims of maybe corrupt political
24:12Masters who are going to try to use them
24:15for their own political agendas so as we
24:17develop these Partnerships we're trying
24:19to develop their professionalism as well
24:21John last question you've been at the
24:23Helm of the CIA for roughly 3 years now
24:26the world's changed dramatically during
24:30those three short years while this is
24:32not the appropriate venue in which to go
24:34into great detail and discussion of
24:37sources and methods it's a good
24:39opportunity for you to speak to the
24:41American people to educate them about
24:42the CIA and in some sense humanize what
24:45is a very opaque organization to most
24:50how is your view of the CIA as an
24:52organization changeed during the last
24:53three
24:55years well Mr chairman thank you in your
24:57opening remarks you talked about how CI
24:59officers frequently work in the shadows
25:01and without the accolades that I think
25:03they certainly deserve I first raised my
25:06hand and swore allegiance to this
25:07country on August the 5th of 1980 as a
25:10young CIA officer and worked at CIA for
25:1225 years and during those 25 years and
25:15then subsequent years and to include the
25:17last three and some three years that
25:20I've had the pleasure and honor to lead
25:21the CIA I am always impressed with the
25:25expertise the capabilities the
25:26dedication of
25:28Americans from every state in this Union
25:31who come to CIA recognizing that they're
25:34frequently going to be maligned unfairly
25:37because of misrepresentations of their
25:39work but they recognize that the work
25:41they do is absolutely essential to keep
25:43their families their neighbors their
25:45friends their fellow citizens safe and
25:47so I I truly believe that uh the agency
25:51is core uh and essential to keeping this
25:55country safe and secure from the growing
25:57threat we face around the globe and uh
26:01coming back to CIA and being able to
26:03spend every day with CIA officers I am
26:07uh just amazed at what it is that
26:08they're willing to do on behalf of their
26:10country I presided over our annual
26:13Memorial ceremony last month in cia's
26:15Lobby in front of our wall of honor
26:17where 117 Stars Grace that wall and
26:20represent CIA men and women who have
26:22given their lives to this country they
26:25do it again without seeking praise
26:28public acclamation but they do it
26:29silently selflessly with great sacrifice
26:32to themselves and their family so I am I
26:35am honored to be part of this
26:37organization thank you director uh Vice
26:39chairman thank you
26:42br thanks um Mr chairman I hope to get
26:45in three questions director so uh the
26:48first is in listening to your remarks
26:51which I think were a lot of broad
26:54strokes and very interesting uh I wanted
26:57to ask you you about a couple of things
27:00that you said you said that Libya is the
27:03most dangerous country and the Sinai the
27:06most active uh you mentioned military
27:09and governmental targets could you
27:11explain a little bit more about that
27:14please I talked about Libya as being uh
27:18the the country where there is the most
27:20dangerous branch of isil outside of
27:22Syria and Iraq they have several
27:25thousands of individuals who have
27:27pledged Allegiance to isil they now
27:30control a portion of the Libyan Coast
27:32around the city of C uh where they're
27:36able to train develop and to uh
27:40consolidate their position inside of
27:41Libya as well as to use Libya as a
27:43potential springboard for carrying out
27:45operations abroad they've attracted a
27:47number of individuals from African
27:49countries inside of Libya and so
27:51therefore I am concerned about the
27:53growth of Libya as another area that
27:56could serve as a basis for ISO to carry
27:59out attacks inside of of Europe and in
28:02other uh locations that is very
28:05concerning particularly since Libya is
28:07right across from Europe in the
28:08Mediterranean the refugee flows that are
28:10going there uh the there's a group
28:13within the Sinai uh isil uh it used to
28:17be a a an Egyptian terrorist group Anar
28:20B mdis which was basically consumed by
28:23isil and that group pledged allegiance
28:25to isil so they already had a capability
28:28they already had a number of individuals
28:30who were trained and were ready to carry
28:32out attacks and we do attribute the
28:34Downing of that Russian airliner to this
28:36group that was able to get on board that
28:39aircraft in IED and to bring it down so
28:43the great concern about how isil has
28:46been able to rapidly develop
28:48capabilities in other countries in some
28:50areas they were able to uh co-opt uh and
28:54acquire groups that were already in
28:55existence Nigeria is another country
28:57where both Haram is now Islamic state of
29:00West Africa where you have several
29:02thousands of individuals who are also on
29:04the March waving the iso Banner uh I was
29:08just out in Singapore last week where
29:10I've talked to my Asian uh counterparts
29:13concerned about what we might see in
29:14Southeast Asia as various tourist
29:17organizations there are increasing their
29:20interaction and connections with isil so
29:22this is a global challenge if the
29:25numbers of isil Fighters now far exceeds
29:28what Al-Qaeda had at its height we're
29:30talking about tens of thousands of
29:32individuals can you Can you estimate the
29:35number right now we estimate within the
29:37Syria Rock area I think it's between
29:3918,000 and 22,000 Fighters and that's
29:41down significantly from our estimates uh
29:44last year where we estimated they might
29:46have had as many as 33,000 or so
29:48fighters in Libya numbers range could be
29:515 to 8,000 or so uh inside of Egypt
29:55there are several hundreds if not over
29:58th000 hardcore fighters inside of the
30:00Sinai that uh are a combination of
30:03individuals who were formerly of Anar
30:05bet mcis as well as others who have
30:07joined uh inside of Yemen you have
30:09several hundred uh in Afghanistan
30:11Pakistan it's in the hundreds uh so the
30:14the numbers are significant uh in Iraq
30:18Syria and Libya Nigeria said you
30:20probably have uh maybe 7,000 or so uh
30:24again there are hardcore fighters there
30:25are adherence there are Logistics uh
30:28Specialists facilitators and others but
30:30the numbers are uh significant I want to
30:33get in one other thing uh you said they
30:37proze uh by using Twitter Telegram and
30:41Tumblr uh that those are the most used
30:46um explain a little bit you
30:49see I fight this huge personal privacy
30:54that any you have to keep everything
30:56private And yet when you have the
31:00electronic World being used as the
31:04propaganda mechanism to fuel the Lone
31:07Wolf to to Goat on the Lone Wolf to uh
31:11um I and I use the word inspire the Lone
31:14Wolf for the United States that's a big
31:17security
31:18problem H what do you recommend from an
31:21intelligence point of it's I know it's
31:23on the spot but we're trying
31:26to discuss a bill on
31:30encryption uh using court orders uh to
31:34ask companies to cooperate in cases of
31:38National Security as well as major major
31:41crime and
31:44um it's just very difficult uh and yet
31:48we see this propaganda I read those
31:50magazines I see what's happening and the
31:54enormous frustration it's not like you
31:56go to a library find something in the
31:58stacks this is a few clips and clicks
32:02and you pull up all this material what
32:05do you think the responsibility of the
32:09technical sector should
32:12be well Senator I think you put your
32:14finger on on two major issues here one
32:17is that you're absolutely right isil has
32:19made extensive and sophisticated use of
32:23the various
32:24technological uh innovations that we
32:27have witnessed over the past decade uh
32:29taking full advantage of social media a
32:32large part of the isil Cadre are young
32:36individuals who have grown up whether it
32:38be in the Middle East Europe or other
32:39places in an era of great technological
32:42development and so using these mediums
32:45comes naturally to them and they
32:48gravitate toward them but they also are
32:51very uh uh aware of what mediums provide
32:56them the greatest security and the
32:57greatest protection from government
33:00insight and oversight of that and they
33:02recognize that a lot of these uh apps
33:05provide them the ability to communicate
33:07with endtoend encryption and also uh
33:10provide uh impediments to governments to
33:13be able to gain access to content of
33:15their information so I will hearken back
33:18to what I said earlier I I do believe
33:20that this committee and others really
33:21need to continue to have the discussion
33:24that is going to be uh a national
33:27discussion about the appropriate role
33:29for the government in a meet in an area
33:32where the private sector owns and
33:34operates the worldwide internet and we
33:36know that the the internet does not
33:39respect Sovereign borders so it's not
33:40just a question of what the United
33:42States is able to do it's what the
33:43Norman standards are going to be across
33:45the globe and I do not believe that
33:47there is a national consensus right now
33:49even within the Congress or the
33:51executive branch about what that
33:52appropriate role is for law enforcement
33:54for intelligence agencies in terms of
33:57being able have the the basis and the
33:59foundation to be able to protect their
34:01fellow citizens from what can happen in
34:04that digital domain whether it's with
34:06the propagation of propaganda that these
34:09organizations are involved in or whether
34:11or not they're actually directing and
34:12training and inciting individuals but
34:16also the vulnerability of our critical
34:18infrastructure uh as well as our way of
34:21life here to uh disabling and
34:23destructive uh malware that can be
34:26deployed by nation states or
34:28organizations that have that capability
34:31and the intent is something that we need
34:33to come to grips with we don't want to
34:35face the equivalent of a 911 in that
34:37cyber domain so and it it is a very
34:40important and worthwhile debate and
34:42there are arguments on all sides about
34:43what the government's role should be but
34:45when I think about the government's
34:48inability to be able to follow up on a
34:51court order and a warrant that grants
34:53the government access to some type of uh
35:00um
35:01device uh that holds uh a lot of
35:06documents or information that could be
35:08inculpatory or exculpatory about an an
35:10investigation as well as provide
35:12investigative leads to prevent the next
35:14attack there is something that this
35:16government has to come to grips with in
35:17terms of what is the The Authority the
35:20responsibility and the role of the
35:22government in making sure that this
35:24country is kept safe from those who want
35:28to do us harm using that digital domain
35:30you Senator
35:31coats uh director you uh talked about
35:35the territorial gains we've had against
35:38isil in both Iraq and in Syria but I'd
35:42like to get uh intelligence assessment
35:46uh agency's assessment
35:49of what it would look like in Syria what
35:51the challenges are what the intelligence
35:53shows the complexity of you know it's a
35:55a mixed cocktail of of opposition groups
35:58and so forth so if if isil is defeated
36:02uh what are we facing what are we
36:04continuing to face in Syria whether
36:06Assad stays or whether he goes there's
36:09going to be
36:11significant um
36:14uh questions raised as as to what we're
36:17going to be facing I think there's maybe
36:21some people come to the conclusion that
36:23all we have to do is defeat Isis in in
36:27Syria and in in Iraq and then all
36:30everything will be fine uh we we know
36:33that they've metastized to a number of
36:35other nations but my question is what is
36:37Syria going to look like if that ha if
36:39and when that happens and what kind of
36:41challenges are we going to have you're
36:44absolutely right Senator Syria is a a
36:46virent cocktail of actors uh many of
36:49which are u in violent conflict uh with
36:53one another uh there are two principal
36:55terrorist organizations that operate
36:57inside of Syria one is isil we've talked
36:59about the other is Jabra which is
37:02Al-Qaeda in Syria that also has
37:05formidable capabilities and presence
37:07throughout the country of several
37:09thousands of Fighters uh some of them
37:11just engaged in the battlefield against
37:13the president Assad but also some who
37:15were plotting to carry out terrorist
37:17attacks outside of Syria so what we want
37:20to do is to be able to destroy those two
37:22uh terrorist organizations uh as you
37:24well know the US government uh supports
37:26the moderate Syrian opposition I
37:27represented on the battlefield by the
37:29free Syrian Army and so if we're able to
37:31eliminate those terrorist groups there's
37:33still a long ways to go though in order
37:34to address some of the outstanding
37:36issues inside of Syria uh the the Syrian
37:40opposition was generated because of
37:42concerns that the Sunni majority had
37:45against the Bashar Assad regime that was
37:48uh abusing its authorities and its
37:50powers so there needs to be some
37:53resolution of outstanding confessional
37:56tensions between Shia and Sun you have
37:58Christians you have Drews you have
38:00others inside of Syria and this is where
38:02we believe that Bashar Assad needs to
38:04depart the Syrian political scene so
38:06there can be a more representative and
38:09legitimate government that's able to uh
38:11preside over this the Syrian uh country
38:15but in addition to that you have
38:16tensions between the Syrian Kurds in the
38:18northern part of Syria and the uh Arabs
38:21uh in the rest of the country so there a
38:24lot of tensions it's very similar in
38:27some respects to that cocktail that
38:29exists within Lebanon where the
38:31multi-confessional nature of the country
38:33really has been a serious impediment for
38:36Lebanon to have a a functional political
38:39system so we have a long way to go but
38:41the important thing is to destroy the
38:42terrorist organizations there bring the
38:44conflict down stop the Bloodshed bring
38:46in the humanitarian assistance that the
38:48Syrian people so richly deserve and need
38:51and then be able to make sure that we're
38:52able to develop a governance structure
38:55that is going to be representative of
38:57the Sy people and be able to address the
38:59Reconstruction of the country which is
39:01going to cost billions upon billions of
39:02dollars given the Russian involvement in
39:05Syria now uh and whatever decisions they
39:08make relative to either Assad remaining
39:11or Assad leaving how does that
39:12complicate the resolution for some kind
39:16of a a settlement ceasefire or or
39:20whatever well as you know Russian uh
39:23brought its military force to Bear last
39:25September in Syria uh with aircraft
39:28artillery and and personnel as a way to
39:31prevent what they saw as a inent collap
39:35collapse of the Bashar Assad regime they
39:37have bolstered the regime uh forces uh
39:40and they are involved right now in
39:42carrying out strikes against the
39:44opposition I we work very closely and
39:47and and talk with the Russians about how
39:49to bring this conflict down we work with
39:51them uh to try to see what we can do on
39:53the counterterrorism front uh but I have
39:57been disappointed that the Russians have
39:59not played a more constructive role in
40:01terms of leveraging its influence inside
40:04of Syria to bring the Syrian regime and
40:07military forces uh down in terms of
40:10their engagement uh and to be more
40:13helpful as far as a negotiating track
40:15this problem of Syria is not going to be
40:17resolved on the battlefield it has to be
40:19resolved on the political front and
40:21secretary Kerry has been working very
40:23very hard and long to try to stimulate
40:26uh some traction there and the Russians
40:28I believe can do more both in terms of
40:30the restraint that they can put on the
40:32Syrian forces but also uh more
40:35constructive engagement on the political
40:36front is Assad stronger today or less
40:39weaker today than he was a year ago uh a
40:42year ago he was on his back foot uh as
40:46the opposition forces were uh carrying
40:49out uh operations that really were
40:51degrading the the Syrian military as a
40:54result of the Russian military
40:56intervention uh he is in a stronger
40:58position than he was in June of last
41:00year and does that does that enhance the
41:02ability to reach a diplomatic solution
41:04or does it lessen the ability to do that
41:06it again it depends on how Russia
41:09decides decides to exercise its
41:11influence but right now uh the the
41:13strengthened Syrian military and Russian
41:16unwillingness to use the leverage that
41:19it has has made it I think uh more
41:22difficult sounds like the Russians have
41:23put themselves in a position which we
41:27HED we they'd never
41:29be Senator chairman thank thank you very
41:31much uh Mr director just a quick comment
41:34on encryption since it has come up it's
41:38important to remember that if encryption
41:40is restricted in the United States it
41:43will still be very easy to download
41:47strong encryption from hundreds of
41:50sources overseas and in my judgment
41:53requiring companies to build back doors
41:57in their products to weaken strong
42:00encryption will put the personal safety
42:03of Americans at risk at a dangerous time
42:07and I want to make it clear I will fight
42:09such a policy with everything I have now
42:13with respect to my first question Mr
42:16director I want to talk about
42:17accountability at the
42:19CIA the agency's 2013 response to the
42:23very important report on torture stated
42:27that the agency agreed that there were
42:29and I quote here significant
42:32shortcomings in cia's handling of
42:35accountability for problems in the
42:37conduct and management of CIA activities
42:41the document goes on to state that I
42:43quote here the CIA must ensure that
42:45accountability adequately extends to
42:48those responsible for any broader uh
42:51systemic or management failures it has
42:54now been three years since the C CIA
42:58said that is it still the case that no
43:02one has been held accountable for the
43:05systemic failures that the agency has
43:09acknowledged first of all Senator I want
43:11to say that I respectfully disagree with
43:13your opening comment first of all us
43:15companies dominate The International
43:18Market as far as encryption technologies
43:20that are available through these various
43:22apps and uh I think we will continue to
43:24dominate them so although you are right
43:26that there's the theoretical ability of
43:27foreign companies to be able to have
43:29those uh encryption capabilities that
43:31will be available to others uh I do
43:33believe that this country and this
43:35private sector is uh integral to uh
43:38addressing these uh these issues and I
43:39encourage this committee to continue to
43:41work on it uh the agency over the course
43:45of the last several years uh took
43:48actions to address the shortcomings that
43:52we have fully acknowledged in the
43:54detention interrogation program there
43:56was individual accountability that was
43:58taken uh as well as accountability for
44:00some of those uh management and systemic
44:03failures and we'll be happy to address
44:06uh in a a different setting uh the
44:08details of of those accountability steps
44:11that I think the committee is aware of I
44:12want to make sure I heard that right I
44:14believe you said that individuals have
44:18been held accountable for systemic
44:21failures if that's the case I certainly
44:24think that's constructive I will say
44:27we will await your classified response
44:30so we have more details on that but I
44:32heard you say there have been individual
44:36accountability and I'd like to see the
44:38details on that right any type of
44:39systemic failure is going to be related
44:42to the individual's failure to either
44:45provide the type of management and
44:47oversight or the performance and so
44:49there is a combination of factors that
44:51contribute to systemic shortcoming we're
44:53individuals held accountable it's a yes
44:54or no answer yes okay I will look
44:57forward to getting that response and I
45:00appreciate that because I think that's
45:03uh very important let me wrap up with a
45:05question about an upcoming policy that
45:08we're all going to be tackling here on
45:10the committee uh section 702 of the
45:12foreign intelligence surveillance Act is
45:14up for Renewal our expiration next year
45:17the office of the Director of National
45:19Intelligence is disclosed that under
45:22Section 702 the CIA routinely conducts
45:25warrantless searches for the emails and
45:27other Communications of specific
45:29Americans and the year before the CIA
45:32conducted nearly 2,000 of these
45:35warrantless searches in my judgment if
45:37there's evidence that an American is
45:39involved with terrorism or Espionage the
45:41government ought to pursue that lead
45:44aggressively agencies can get a warrant
45:46to read the person's emails and an
45:48emergency situations which I strongly
45:52backed they can even obtain the
45:53communications right away and get Jud
45:57review afterwards my question is if
45:59there was a rule that said the CIA could
46:01only search for Americans Communications
46:04under Section 702 if the justice
46:06department has obtained a warrant with
46:09the exception for the Emergency uh
46:11situation or when uh a person is in
46:14danger would the CIA be able to comply
46:16with that
46:17rule I will have to get back to you
46:19that's a complicated issue and I don't
46:21want to give you an offthe cuff response
46:23I want to make sure that you get the the
46:25answer that uh that question deserves
46:27fair fair enough I would like that in
46:29writing could we have that say within
46:30two weeks uh we will do our best to do
46:32that absolutely okay I think two weeks
46:34ought to be sufficient Mr director and I
46:37appreciate uh the fact that in both
46:39areas you're going to get back to me
46:41we'll uh look at what part of the
46:44responses has to be classified and what
46:45part uh can be discussed in public but
46:47both with respect to individual
46:49accountability on torture and this
46:51question of 702 I look forward to your
46:53response thank you Senator I should
46:54point out also I think something that
46:56you would be appreciative of is that the
46:57agency has appointed a privacy and civil
46:59liberties officer that is a full member
47:02of our senior staff that we want to make
47:04sure is going to be fully involved in
47:06all of the activities uh that the CIA is
47:08engaged in to make sure that we are
47:10appropriately protecting the privacy and
47:11civil liberties of our citizens I I look
47:13forward to meeting that individual has a
47:15person been appointed are they available
47:16to meet with members now uh the person
47:18has been appointed and is operating
47:20within the CIA this is his second or
47:22third week but please ask that person to
47:24uh to make an appointment at a time of
47:26his convenience with me surely thank you
47:29Senator
47:31blunt uh director Brenan thank you for
47:34being here with us today we get to see
47:35you often seldom do we get to see you in
47:37a public session like this in public
47:42comments our military leaders uh the
47:45Director of National Intelligence and
47:47others say uh over and over again that
47:51they feel we're facing more threats from
47:54more directions than ever before do you
47:58share that assessment yeah yes I do and
48:02what kinds of things has the CIA done to
48:05be more agile in dealing with more
48:08threats from more directions than ever
48:10before as I noted earlier we embarked on
48:14this modernization effort to try to make
48:15sure that we're able to take full
48:18advantage optimal advantage of the great
48:20expertise and capabilities that we have
48:21within the organization I am a very
48:24strong proponent of integrating
48:26capabilities so that we're not attack
48:28attacking these problems in individual
48:30streams and that's why we set up our
48:32mission centers where we have our
48:34regional and functional Mission centers
48:37where we can bring to bear not just our
48:39clandestine collection capabilities our
48:41all sorts analytic capabilities but our
48:43open source capabilities and insights
48:45our technical uh Innovation uh our
48:49ability to uh bring these different
48:51skill sets expertise together because as
48:54you noted I think the the array of chall
48:57we Face proliferation with North Korea
49:00uh the Cyber domain terrorism that is
49:02plaguing so many countries uh and that
49:04threatens us instability that is racking
49:06these countries I have never in my 36
49:09years of national security service seen
49:12a time when there is such a a dizzying
49:14array of issues of National Security
49:16consequence I am constantly going down
49:18to the White House participating in
49:20National Security Council meetings
49:21principal committee meetings so that
49:22we're able to address these issues
49:24that's why I want to make sure that I
49:26take fully advantage of the resources
49:28that you have provided to our uh agency
49:30so that we optimize the contributions of
49:33agency officers uh around the globe
49:35right and how how much is all of those
49:39all of those threats from all those
49:40directions how much is that complicated
49:42by what appears to be the new addition
49:45of substantial
49:47self-radicalization in the
49:49country these so-called lone wolves the
49:52ones who operate as a result of the
49:54incitement encouragement and
49:55exhortations of these terrorist
49:57organizations it is an exceptionally
49:59challenging uh issue for the
50:02intelligence Community security and law
50:04enforcement to deal with uh the the
50:05tragic uh attack in Orlando uh we have
50:10not been able to uncover any direct link
50:12between that individual matine and a
50:15foreign Tourist Organization but that
50:17inspiration can lead someone to embark
50:20on this path of destruction and start to
50:24acquire the capability the expertise uh
50:26maybe do the surveillance and carry out
50:28an attack uh without triggering any of
50:31those traditional signatures that we
50:32might see as a foreign torist
50:34organization tries to deploy operatives
50:36here so those individual actors either
50:39acting alone or in concert with uh some
50:41cohorts it really presents a serious
50:44Challenge and we're working very closely
50:45with FBI Department of Homeland Security
50:47and others to give them whatever
50:49intelligence we have that might help
50:51them uh identify uh some of these
50:53individuals now I think you've been
50:55asked this particular question already D
50:57but let me just say again that I I think
50:59we're eager to hear the from you the
51:02kinds of things you need to better deal
51:06with this really unique and hard to um
51:10hard to penetrate um self-radicalization
51:13because you don't have the other
51:15contacts that all your other sources may
51:18come across let me ask one additional
51:21question about um China and cyber
51:24attacks last year the president
51:25announced a common understanding with
51:28China's leadership that neither country
51:30would conduct or knowingly support cyber
51:33enabled threat of intellectual property
51:36for commercial advantage in your view
51:40does that mean that uh um cyber enabled
51:44uh theft of intellectual property by U
51:48people from China has ended no do you
51:51see any good faith effort on the part of
51:53the Chinese government to crack down on
51:56this I see some effort by the Chinese
51:58government to follow through on some of
51:59the commitments they've provided in
52:01political channels uh there are a lot of
52:04entities people organizations inside of
52:06China some of them operating as part of
52:09the Chinese government some parisal some
52:11working basically on contract uh and so
52:14therefore we are exceptionally Vigilant
52:17about all the different attack vectors
52:19that uh individuals or countries could
52:22attempt to use in order to uh penetrate
52:25our systems and net networks and
52:26databases whether they be government
52:28systems or private sector to steal
52:30intellectual property so I am uh
52:34contined to be concerned about the the
52:36Cyber capabilities that reside within
52:39China as well as uh the uh the actions
52:43that some continue to
52:44undertake uh thank you director and
52:46thank you chairman Senator
52:48[Applause]
52:51Warner thank you Mr chairman and um
52:55first of all Dr Bron just good to see
52:56you again and I I want to um reiterate
53:00once again um personal thanks for you
53:04and all the intelligence professionals
53:06who serve day in and day out without
53:08necessarily the recognition um they
53:11deserve of Senator blunt and I are
53:13leading efforts to recognize some of
53:15that service in terms of an
53:17OSS uh Congressional recognition we we
53:20do small things like the intelligence
53:22professionals days but um um I'm blessed
53:25to have a lot of the intelligence
53:27community in Virginia and I hope you
53:29will relay to Folks at the agency how
53:32how grateful we are for what you do day
53:34in and day out number one number two I I
53:37I do want to raise some concern um in
53:40terms of uh your response to Senator
53:42weiden um I think the
53:45issue uh around digital security is one
53:49of the most
53:50complex uh I've ever been engaged with
53:53um encryption just a small component
53:56part of that
53:57um I think public press has indicated
54:00that the terrorists in France used
54:03telegram a Belgian
54:05encrypted um technology and Belgian
54:08encrypted company uh 2,000 apps a day
54:12are added to the iPhone store over half
54:14of those are foreign-based entities and
54:18to renegotiate or relitigate the idea of
54:22whether encryption is here or not
54:24encryption makes our safer um now we
54:27have legitimate challenges and issues on
54:29how we work through a way within our
54:32legal structure to get it information um
54:35I personally believe it would be make
54:39America less safe and uh do great
54:43economic as well as National Security
54:45harm for us to litigate or to mandate in
54:49any way a a solution set that would
54:53simply push the bad guys onto form-based
54:55hardware and software and as complex as
54:57this issue is it's going to only
55:00exponentially get more complex as we
55:02move into the so-called Internet of
55:04Things um as we think about sensors on
55:06our refrigerators and our cars and I saw
55:09came to my attention recently um you
55:12think about our kids toys which are now
55:15interactive 6.4
55:17million H information of children were
55:19hacked into last year um I
55:24me and this is only going to grow larger
55:27my my Approach has been to put experts
55:29in the room um Beyond frankly the
55:32capability of of some of our individual
55:34members to try to help guide us to a
55:36solution set uh chairman McCall and I
55:39haven't approached that way I still
55:40think it is the best one I staff
55:42corrected me quickly the telegram based
55:44in Germany not in Belgium but the the
55:45point being that um um this is an
55:49international problem it is not an a
55:51problem that can be solved America only
55:54it is to require enormous collaboration
55:57and and um what I am so concerned about
56:00is that we are while this issue has
56:03perhaps disappeared from the newspapers
56:06on a daily basis uh we could see some
56:09other invent using encrypted technology
56:11that would then lead us into a quick
56:14solution set rather than a thoughtful
56:17solution set and getting this wrong
56:18would pay would uh do enormous harm to
56:21our security and to our uh I think
56:23economic preeminence um
56:27I wanted to raise one issue chairman
56:29Burr and number of members I were had a
56:34trip recently and um
56:37uh I think I can I don't want to speak
56:40for all the members but some concerns
56:42about the ability of our European allies
56:45in terms of information sharing we
56:46obviously saw the the horrific attack in
56:49in Brussels but as our nation grieved
56:52this week over the killings in Orlando
56:55there were was also as you're well aware
56:58of that brutal attack on a French police
57:01officer and wife in front of a child
57:04videoed and then uh exploited
57:07outrageously uh can you comment on um
57:12post Belgium and now post again this
57:14incident in
57:15France growing collaboration cooperation
57:18information sharing amongst the
57:19Europeans and in in particular uh some
57:21concerns I have with our our German
57:24allies
57:26well first of all thank you for your
57:27comments Senator about the agency's
57:29workforce and I want to thank all the
57:31Senators who visit uh agency officers
57:34overseas when you travel uh it is it
57:36sends a very strong message powerful
57:38message to them that they have the
57:39support of their authorizing committee
57:42here in in the Senate uh we have engaged
57:45extensively with our European Partners
57:47particularly since the the Paris and
57:48Belgium attacks but we have had
57:50long-standing relationships with them on
57:52the counterterrorism front for many many
57:54years uh over the past uh two months uh
57:57myself and other uh senior leaders of
58:00the intelligence Community have traveled
58:01out to Europe and we've sat down with
58:03the heads of the internal and external
58:05services to talk about our experiences
58:08here in the United States uh since 911
58:11in terms of how we have been able to
58:13bring together different capabilities
58:14organizational structures information
58:16sharing mechanisms it architectures in
58:19order to take advantage of data that's
58:21available and as challenged as it was
58:23here in the United States we were still
58:24one government and so we were able to
58:26operate within one legal system the
58:29challenge for Europe as you know is that
58:30there are 28 countries in the EU with 28
58:33legal structures and then within each of
58:35those countries they have uh sometimes
58:38several intelligence and Security
58:40Services they do not have the
58:42interconnectivity uh either from a
58:44mission and legal perspective or from an
58:46IT perspective and so we have talked to
58:49them about some mechanisms that we can
58:52use to better facilitate information
58:54sharing among them because that's the
58:56key is being able to take information a
58:58bit of data and be able to
59:00operationalize it at a border security
59:02point or in the cup on the street so
59:04they can take action so for example we
59:08CIA we share counterterrorism
59:10information with What's called the
59:11counter terorism group it's a ctg this
59:14Falls within the EU it has the EU
59:16members as well as uh Norway and and
59:18Switzerland uh so that we're able to
59:20push out to those 30 countries uh
59:23simultaneously information related to
59:25terrorism so that they have the same
59:27information but then all they know that
59:29they can talk to one another about it
59:31and we've talked to them about different
59:32mechanisms that they could use to set up
59:34some type of system whether it's EU
59:37based or shenan system based but uh they
59:40have still I think a ways to go they've
59:42made some important progress uh there
59:44are some of the countries in Europe that
59:46are much better able to share
59:48information within their governments and
59:51systems uh as well as across uh The
59:54Sovereign borders but this is something
59:56that the the Europeans are going to have
59:57to work on uh because it's not just a
1:00:00technical or it solution it is also an
1:00:02issue of how they going to protect the
1:00:05the privacy of their individual citizens
1:00:07as they share information what is the
1:00:08threshold for putting an individual's
1:00:10name and biographic data into a database
1:00:12putting them on a watch list so they're
1:00:14working their way through that and we
1:00:16have are are trying to provide as much
1:00:18assistance and support as we
1:00:21can Senator
1:00:24King thank you uh I uh appreciate the
1:00:28the question and the answer because I
1:00:30think this is this is very important it
1:00:32struck me when we were there that the
1:00:34political rivalries and the ancient
1:00:36relationships between these countries
1:00:38was going to make it very difficult for
1:00:39them to exchange directly with one
1:00:41another therefore some neutral europ
1:00:44Pole or as I think you ctg or it seems
1:00:49to me that's got to be the answer and I
1:00:51encourage you to continue to encourage
1:00:52them because unless they uh get a handle
1:00:55on this they're going to only be as
1:00:57strong as their weakest link uh
1:00:58particularly when you have a situation
1:01:00with of open borders and not sharing I
1:01:02mean that's a disaster waiting to happen
1:01:04in fact it has happened several times um
1:01:07you mentioned that you're a great
1:01:09believer in integrating the cia's
1:01:11capabilities and the reorganization uh I
1:01:14support that uh uh that concept but as
1:01:17you know I have concerns about possible
1:01:19loss of analytic Integrity uh when you
1:01:23combine operations put operations and
1:01:26and Analysis in the same in the same uh
1:01:29box uh could you update us on efforts to
1:01:33ensure the analytic Integrity of the of
1:01:35the uh intelligence
1:01:38uh as part of this reorganization it's a
1:01:41legitimate concern and it's one that the
1:01:43agency has had to deal with over the
1:01:44course of many years because the the
1:01:47counter tourism Mission Center has its
1:01:48roots in the counter Tourism Center that
1:01:50was established in the 1980s where
1:01:52analysts and operations officers were
1:01:56comingled in the same area I I headed up
1:02:00the analytic effort inside of CTC back
1:02:03in the the early 1990s uh and I was
1:02:07aware that we needed to make sure that
1:02:08we maintain that objectivity and
1:02:10integrity that those safeguards and some
1:02:13of the um the techniques that uh we use
1:02:17to make sure that there maintains that
1:02:19objectivity in Integrity is uh part of
1:02:21the instruction in our career analyst
1:02:24program the cap training program that
1:02:26all analysts go through we also want to
1:02:29make sure that we have the senior
1:02:30analysts and Senior managers mindful
1:02:32about the respective responsibilities of
1:02:34analysts and the rubric analysis covers
1:02:37many different areas analysis drives a
1:02:39lot of covert action it drives a lot of
1:02:41clandestine collection I don't want the
1:02:43covert action to drive the analysis
1:02:45that's that's right and there needs to
1:02:47be that separation in terms of the
1:02:49independence and I must say that the
1:02:51analysts that I know are very very uh um
1:02:55um
1:02:56they jealously guard that analytic
1:02:58Integrity as as well they should and so
1:03:00we want to make sure that it's built
1:03:01into the system uh so there there is an
1:03:04issue but uh I I am I've been satisfied
1:03:07that we've been able to maintain that
1:03:09objectivity and integrity while also
1:03:11getting the benefits of that uh
1:03:12collocation quick question how does the
1:03:15uh intelligence community and the CIA in
1:03:18particular assess the Iranian compliance
1:03:21with the jcpoa thus far so far so good
1:03:25so far so
1:03:27good um another question about
1:03:29organization of the CIA uh it seems to
1:03:33me we have to distinguish between effort
1:03:35and Effectiveness do you have a standard
1:03:37procedure that that measures
1:03:39effectiveness of of programs after
1:03:42Action reviews
1:03:43assessments uh we we've got to
1:03:46understand what's working and I I'm my
1:03:49question is is there some systematic way
1:03:51within the agency of assessing what is
1:03:54working and how it's working a number of
1:03:56ways Senator uh one is that our
1:03:58Inspector General has a regular review
1:04:00of a number of our programs to see how
1:04:02they're operating make sure they're
1:04:03consistent with the law but also
1:04:05inherent in those reviews are looking at
1:04:07how effective they've been but in the
1:04:09area that usually generates the most
1:04:12concern and controversy which is in
1:04:13covert action we have set up last year a
1:04:17new office called the covert action
1:04:19measures of Effectiveness office where
1:04:21we have senior officers uh working and
1:04:24reviewing all of those cover action
1:04:25programs to make sure that we understand
1:04:27what's the efficacy of the program not
1:04:29just whether or not we have reached the
1:04:31the Milestones that have been
1:04:33established for these programs but how
1:04:35effective and efficacious has it been in
1:04:37terms of realizing the objectives that
1:04:39have been set out so uh a number of of
1:04:42ways that we have established these
1:04:44reviews and metrics we'll be happy to
1:04:45provide you additional information on it
1:04:47I appreciate that one of my Motts in
1:04:48life is does it work and how do you know
1:04:51right I appreciate your attention to
1:04:53that finally um there hasn't been an IG
1:04:56at the CIA for 17 months or so uh why
1:05:00the delay is there a nomination
1:05:02forthcoming I think this is a very
1:05:04important one of the most important
1:05:06positions in government particularly in
1:05:07the intelligence agencies which don't
1:05:09have the oversight that other more
1:05:12public agencies do when are we going to
1:05:14get an IG
1:05:16nomination the I Inspector General of
1:05:18CIA is one of three officers in within
1:05:21CIA who are presidentially appointed and
1:05:23Senate confirmed and so therefore is the
1:05:25prerogative of the president of the
1:05:26white house uh and so we've had an
1:05:29acting uh IG the deputy who's uh who's
1:05:32presiding over that office uh I'd like
1:05:35to think that I would be seen as
1:05:36pression today if I were to say that
1:05:38such a uh nomination may be forthcoming
1:05:41soon I hope you will convey back to the
1:05:43administration the importance that this
1:05:44committee puts on that position and that
1:05:46we believe an appointment in the
1:05:48immediate future is appropriate I will
1:05:51do my best to to to do that thank you
1:05:53thank you Mr chairman Senator cotton
1:05:56thank you director Brennan it's good to
1:05:57have you here again I apologize have not
1:05:59been present in person I've been in the
1:06:02intelligence committee's equivalent of a
1:06:03makeshift daycare but I've been
1:06:05listening intently chairman bur I
1:06:07discussed letting him babysit my son so
1:06:09I could come out and ask questions but
1:06:10we were afraid it would land both of us
1:06:12in child protective
1:06:14services I did however hear his opening
1:06:16statements and many of the other
1:06:17statements of members of this committee
1:06:20uh thanking uh you on behalf of all the
1:06:22men and women uh who serve at the CIA
1:06:24and I want to associate myself those
1:06:25comments in many cases uh they face even
1:06:29more hardships and risks than do our
1:06:30troops and while our troops get
1:06:32recognition appropriately at ball games
1:06:34or when they walk through airports and
1:06:35people buy them beers or meals obviously
1:06:37your officers do not uh and they deserve
1:06:40all the recognition that our troops get
1:06:41as well um I want to discuss uh
1:06:45cooperation with our intelligence
1:06:47Community from Silicon Valley
1:06:50specifically um Twitter and a company
1:06:52called Data Miner according to the Wall
1:06:55Street Journal from May 8 uh as well as
1:06:58some other media reports data Miner uh
1:07:00which is uh owned in part by Twitter and
1:07:03is the only company authorized to access
1:07:05the full realtime stream of public
1:07:08tweets uh that Twitter has uh recently
1:07:11cooperated with the uh CIA uh but in
1:07:15just a few weeks ago ended that
1:07:17cooperation so uh our intelligence
1:07:19community no longer has access to data
1:07:21miners uh information uh could you
1:07:24comment on these reports
1:07:27uh it appears as though uh data minor
1:07:31was uh directed uh to uh not provide uh
1:07:35its Service uh to uh the CIA Intel's
1:07:38Community um and so therefore we need to
1:07:41be able to um leverage uh other uh
1:07:45capabilities uh in order to make sure
1:07:47that we have the Insight we need to
1:07:49protect this
1:07:50country so those reports are
1:07:53correct I I am not going to to dispute
1:07:56them um Wall Street Journal also
1:07:58reported that the CEO of Twitter Jack
1:08:01dorsy uh directed data Miner to stop the
1:08:04contract as he was worried uh about
1:08:06quote the Optics end quote of helping
1:08:09intelligence agencies do uh believe that
1:08:12to be
1:08:13accurate I do not know his his
1:08:15motivation uh for any uh corporate
1:08:18decision he may have made but I have no
1:08:19basis to dispute that uh the Wall Street
1:08:22Journal also reports that uh among
1:08:24customers of data remains RT Russia
1:08:27Today a propaganda Outlet of Vladimir
1:08:30Putin's government which Vladimir Putin
1:08:32has said is quote trying to break the
1:08:35Anglo-Saxon Monopoly on Global
1:08:37Information streams end quote to your
1:08:39knowledge is Russia Today a client of
1:08:41data
1:08:43minor uh I I believe so I'm not certain
1:08:46of that but uh I don't have any
1:08:47information that they have been excluded
1:08:49from uh their services is it
1:08:51disappointing to you that an American
1:08:53company would sell its product to Russia
1:08:56Today a propaganda arm of the government
1:08:58of Russia yet not cooperate with the
1:09:01United States intelligence
1:09:03Community I'm I'm disappointed that
1:09:05there is not more active cooperation uh
1:09:08consistent with their with our legal
1:09:11authorities uh that may be uh available
1:09:14um from the US private
1:09:17sector thank you I want to uh turn now
1:09:19to the open Skies treaty uh the stratcom
1:09:22commander Admiral hanus testified that
1:09:25the open SK treaty quote has become a
1:09:27critical component of Russia's
1:09:28intelligence collection capability
1:09:30directed at the United States end quote
1:09:32uh do you agree with that statement from
1:09:34Admiral Haney Admiral Haney would be
1:09:36best positioned uh to uh make a public
1:09:39comment like that and I'd be happy to to
1:09:41look into it and get back to you um
1:09:45separately Dia director General Stewart
1:09:47has testified the open Skies construct
1:09:49was designed for a different era and I'm
1:09:51very concerned about how it's applied
1:09:53today he further said the things that
1:09:55you can see the amount of data you can
1:09:56collect the things you can do with
1:09:58post-processing allows Russia in my
1:09:59opinion to get incredible foundational
1:10:01Intelligence on critical infrastructure
1:10:03bases ports all of our facilities so
1:10:05from my perspective it gives them a
1:10:07significant Advantage end quote can
1:10:10Russia use post-processing analysis to
1:10:12enhance their open Skies collection as
1:10:14general Stuart has
1:10:15suggested there have been tremendous
1:10:17technological advancements since open
1:10:19Skies was first established and
1:10:21therefore I'm sure that Russia and
1:10:23others take advantage of the those
1:10:25technological uh developments in order
1:10:27to advance their intelligence collection
1:10:30capabilities uh do you believe that
1:10:32these processes and procedures on
1:10:33digital images and the advances in
1:10:35technology might allow Russia to exceed
1:10:38the limits imposed by the open Skies
1:10:40treaty um I would have to take a a look
1:10:42into how those capabilities uh could be
1:10:46used to to exceed those thank you my
1:10:49time has expired thank you again for
1:10:50your appearance
1:10:52today senator heimr
1:10:55thank you Mr chair uh welcome director
1:10:57Brennan uh you talked a little bit in
1:10:59your opening statement you
1:11:01outlined the sort of Disconnect between
1:11:04the real progress that has been made
1:11:07with isil in terms of uh kinetic
1:11:10progress in terms of limiting their
1:11:12financial resources and the reality of
1:11:15inspired terrorist attacks that have
1:11:18Global reach including here in the
1:11:20Homeland as we've seen this week what
1:11:23progress is is being made in degrading
1:11:25isil's ability to inspire terrorist uh
1:11:29acts through the digital or even
1:11:32traditional media and and how have we
1:11:35learned how to measure that
1:11:38progress well what we're trying to do is
1:11:41to uh go upstream and find out who is
1:11:43responsible for spewing this information
1:11:46into the internet uh that inspires
1:11:48individuals to carry out these attacks
1:11:51and so working with our military
1:11:53Partners uh we are trying to make sure
1:11:55that the appropriate actions are taken
1:11:57in Syria and Iraq where a lot of this
1:11:59emanates from in addition we are trying
1:12:02to share information with as many of our
1:12:05Global Partners as possible so that they
1:12:07can be attuned to individuals who may be
1:12:10uh uh involved in these activities
1:12:13because there's not just the Upstream
1:12:15activity there is the downstream
1:12:17propagation of this uh but it it also
1:12:20gets to issues that we were talking
1:12:21earlier about which is what is the
1:12:24government's role as as far as being
1:12:25able to limit this type of material both
1:12:28in terms of what its legal uh um
1:12:32authorities are as well as what its
1:12:34technical capabilities are to prevent
1:12:36this type of propagation of uh this uh
1:12:40this poison that's coming out from them
1:12:41do you feel like you have good
1:12:42cooperation from our Arab allies on on
1:12:45this
1:12:46front we have very strong cooperation
1:12:48from a number of Arab states and and
1:12:51partners uh that we are actively working
1:12:53with in this area yes so um director you
1:12:56and the vice chair noted the inherent
1:12:59security challenge of surveillance and
1:13:01the kind of work that you do in an age
1:13:03of ubiquitous encryption um you know one
1:13:07of the challenges is the encryption
1:13:08horse has left the barn um nothing we
1:13:11can do at this point can take access to
1:13:13that technology away from our enemies
1:13:16away from isol or for that matter anyone
1:13:18else in the world when you can simply go
1:13:21online and download Telegraph onto your
1:13:24phone or your device anywhere in the
1:13:26world um but if we're not careful about
1:13:31how we address these challenges we could
1:13:33certainly mandate weak weakness into our
1:13:36own digital systems uh potentially
1:13:38putting the personal and financial
1:13:40records of Americans at risk from
1:13:43hostile um actions both from state level
1:13:47actors and from Criminal actors and I
1:13:50think if we mandate sort of a 19th
1:13:53century solution to a 21st Century
1:13:55problem we could also um see a number of
1:13:59uh real economic activity real jobs
1:14:02migrate overseas to avoid uh those
1:14:05perceived Solutions so it's clear to
1:14:09both myself and a number of my
1:14:11colleagues that we need to have
1:14:13continued conversations around this they
1:14:15need to be technologically grounded uh I
1:14:18know Senator Warner wrote and I've
1:14:19co-sponsored a bill that seeks to set up
1:14:23a commission that would include perspec
1:14:25Ives from intelligence and law
1:14:26enforcement and uh the business and
1:14:28technology communities do you have uh a
1:14:32perspective on that
1:14:33legislation well first of all let me say
1:14:35that I strongly support uh encryption as
1:14:39a capability that protects our way of
1:14:42life our prosperity our our national
1:14:46security um but at the same time um I I
1:14:50fully agree with both you Senator Warner
1:14:51Senator wi and others that we we need to
1:14:53have the opportunity to deal with this
1:14:57new environment of the digital domain uh
1:15:00so that the government can appropriately
1:15:03Safeguard its interests its citizens uh
1:15:06its future and that requires the experts
1:15:08to be able to get together the legal the
1:15:10technical the the practitioners to find
1:15:13some way that is not going to be
1:15:15perceived as a back door but it's going
1:15:17to allow the government to legitimately
1:15:20carry out its responsibilities while not
1:15:23compromising the great benefits that
1:15:25acre to encryption I don't know whether
1:15:27or not as a executive branch officer I'm
1:15:29allowed to sort of endorse a a piece of
1:15:31you know sort of a legislative
1:15:32initiative but I have talked to uh other
1:15:35members of the of the Congress I think a
1:15:38congressional Commission on this issue
1:15:40is something that really could do a
1:15:42great service because this is not just a
1:15:45government only issue it is largely a
1:15:48private sector issue and there needs to
1:15:50be an understanding between the private
1:15:51sector and the government about what our
1:15:53respective roles and responsibilties is
1:15:55going to be to be able to find some type
1:15:57of Solution that's able to optimize what
1:15:59it is that we're all trying to achieve
1:16:01which is security privacy Liberty
1:16:03prosperity in a technologically Rich
1:16:06world that is going to continue to
1:16:07evolve so I encourage you to continue to
1:16:10tackle this issue and also to educate
1:16:12the American people about what it is and
1:16:15so that they don't fear the government's
1:16:17role which is what happens right now
1:16:19because they don't understand it and
1:16:21then we need to make sure that they
1:16:22understand that that Frontier is just
1:16:23like the physical domain in the maritime
1:16:25domain we have an obligation to protect
1:16:27our people thank you for your
1:16:30perspective on that thank you
1:16:32chair Senator
1:16:34Langford treor Bren thanks for being
1:16:36here again uh you helped lead or did
1:16:39lead uh when President Obama was
1:16:41president-elect Obama in 2008 the
1:16:44intelligence transition team it was part
1:16:46of your responsibility to be able to
1:16:48brief the future president at that time
1:16:50on some of the issues that were blinking
1:16:52red I think the term was used uh on the
1:16:54int Community if you were helping
1:16:56organize for that next transition
1:16:58because we'll have a new president next
1:16:59year what are the key things you could
1:17:01articulate right now are blinking red
1:17:04for the new
1:17:05president cyber
1:17:07certainly that that individual whoever
1:17:09is elected will use the need to use
1:17:11their all four or eight years in order
1:17:13to tackle this issue because it's going
1:17:14to take time in order to come up with
1:17:16the types of uh understandings that are
1:17:19necessary terrorism is going to continue
1:17:21to plague us uh and that's related to
1:17:23the Cyber issue and how're going to make
1:17:25sure that FBI and NSA and CIA and others
1:17:28are able to do their job to protect this
1:17:30country uh proliferation is something
1:17:32that we cannot forget about and which is
1:17:34brought into Stark Relief by the
1:17:36activities of North Korea and Kim
1:17:38Jong-un uh and the continued development
1:17:41of his nuclear program and ballistic
1:17:43missile capability that is a threat not
1:17:45just to the region but also to to us uh
1:17:49instability in a number of countries uh
1:17:52in the Middle East and Africa and the
1:17:54lack of governance capabilities Within
1:17:57These uh countries so that they are
1:18:00unable to tackle the political the
1:18:02economic the societal the cultural
1:18:05challenges and I am really worried about
1:18:07how instability is going to continue to
1:18:09erode and corroe some of the foundations
1:18:12of governance and how more and more
1:18:14individuals because of their feelings of
1:18:16being disan disenfranchised from their
1:18:18governments are now identifying with
1:18:20subnational groups whether it be with an
1:18:22isil or a NRA or a boah haran or others
1:18:25they're not identifying themselves as
1:18:27Somali Nigerians or yemenis they're
1:18:29identifying themselves as part of a
1:18:31confessional group or a terrorist
1:18:33organization that is a very very
1:18:35disturbing Trend that I believe that
1:18:37this country can play a role in trying
1:18:39to help address we cannot solve it on
1:18:41our own do you think that U we would
1:18:44have uh less proliferation of isil uh
1:18:47and Isis whatever you want to call them
1:18:49today uh we' have less of the movement
1:18:52of terrorism worldwide uh if there was
1:18:54not a safe haven in Syria and
1:18:57Iraq that is a a big big part of it we
1:19:00need to take away their safe haven
1:19:02because it gives them the opportunity to
1:19:04use these lands to train and to fight
1:19:07but also to gain revenue and their
1:19:10control of large cities like mosul and
1:19:12raqqa and these population centers as
1:19:14well as oil fields it generates Revenue
1:19:16not just to keep their fighters on the
1:19:18battlefield but also to try to support
1:19:21some of these terrorist operations
1:19:22strike possibilities that are out there
1:19:24that could reduce rce the amount of
1:19:25money that is Flowing uh to Isis right
1:19:28now that we are not taking or that
1:19:29should be have a higher
1:19:31Tempo I think the the US lead Coalition
1:19:34has done a good job going after some of
1:19:35these bulk cach sites as well as the oil
1:19:37infrastructure and refining capabilities
1:19:40uh it's intermingled with a lot of the
1:19:42locals and civilians who are trying to
1:19:44eek out in existence so I think the
1:19:47military has done a very good job
1:19:49there's more work to be done that's
1:19:50where intelligence is so important so we
1:19:51can give them the insights into what
1:19:53they can do so help me understand the
1:19:54tempo of the pro- Syrian forces
1:19:57including the Russians and others and
1:19:59their air strike Tempo compared to our
1:20:01air strike
1:20:03Tempo uh unfortunately they're directing
1:20:05a lot of their air strikes and artillery
1:20:07barges against the free Syrian Army that
1:20:10is trying to unseat Bashar Assad uh and
1:20:13just looking out over the past two weeks
1:20:15the amount of air strikes in the Aleppo
1:20:18area where many of the Syrian moderate
1:20:21opposition operate uh has exceeded the
1:20:24pre cessation of hostilities uh totals
1:20:27so yes the Russians and syrians have
1:20:29gone after isil as well as shabra but a
1:20:33large proportion of their strikes are
1:20:35directed against what I we consider to
1:20:37be the legitimate Syrian opposition that
1:20:39are trying to save their country from
1:20:41Bashar Assad and you you anticipate at
1:20:42this point that the number of strikes
1:20:44that are out there exceed the session of
1:20:46hostilities which seems to be be a piece
1:20:49of paper at this point it doesn't seem
1:20:51to be an actual cation of hostility it
1:20:53is holding by a thread particularly in
1:20:54the areas of Aleppo lakia also in the
1:20:57Damascus Countryside let me ask on the
1:20:59intelligence uh agreements that we have
1:21:01open Skies other things that we hold to
1:21:03so strongly uh to the letter and the
1:21:05spirit of it do the Russians also hold
1:21:08to the letter in the spirit of those
1:21:10agreements uh we'll have to get back to
1:21:12you in uh another setting on that okay
1:21:14sir all right thank you I you
1:21:17back Senator
1:21:21Herona thank you director Brennan for
1:21:24being here
1:21:25uh you mentioned in your remarks about
1:21:28CIA modernization and the desire to
1:21:31diversify the CIA to be reflective of of
1:21:36the diversity not only in our own
1:21:37country but of course all all the
1:21:39entities that we deal with in the world
1:21:41so can you very briefly go over what
1:21:43you're doing to increase diversity in
1:21:44the
1:21:45CIA over the past three years we've had
1:21:48initiative it was called the director's
1:21:50Advisory Group it was initiated in fact
1:21:52by General Petraeus my my predecessor
1:21:54trying to advance uh women in leadership
1:21:57within the agency and so we have had uh
1:21:59implementation teams that have been
1:22:01working over the last three years to
1:22:02make sure that this the the objectives
1:22:05and goals of this study are being
1:22:07operationalized in our promotion and
1:22:10assignments panels and other types of uh
1:22:13programs that we have with inside the
1:22:14agency I asked Vernon Jordan who is a
1:22:17member of our external Advisory Board to
1:22:19spearhead an effort on diversity and
1:22:20leadership in CIA that took a look at
1:22:23all the different facets of the agency
1:22:25in terms of uh representation and
1:22:27Leadership our recruitment efforts our
1:22:28training and development of officers and
1:22:31why we have fallen short of even Federal
1:22:33standards of what our diversity
1:22:35composition should look like uh and it
1:22:37was a hard-hitting report and it came up
1:22:39with a number of recommendations we have
1:22:41put together action teams on that as
1:22:43well I have a lead uh officer who is
1:22:46involved in it I have made mandatory
1:22:48training for my senior leadership team
1:22:50in fact just about 3 weeks ago we had
1:22:52several hours of diversity and
1:22:53Leadership training for the senior most
1:22:55officers of the agency they need to be
1:22:57heavily involved in it we think we have
1:22:59fallen short over the past years because
1:23:01we've been so driven by crises that we
1:23:03have not paid attention to some of these
1:23:05strategic imperatives that we need to
1:23:07and that's why we need to have our
1:23:08leaders actively involved in these
1:23:10efforts from development me mentoring
1:23:13sponsoring to recruitment efforts I go
1:23:15out to schools I talk uh to various
1:23:17groups that's great so as you have a
1:23:19time frame for when you'd like to see
1:23:21some of the results of these kinds of
1:23:23efforts so what would that time frame
1:23:25being yesterday is the first one I want
1:23:28to make sure that we're able to uh look
1:23:31at the Milestones that we need and it's
1:23:33not just the the numbers I want to make
1:23:35sure that we have instituted some of the
1:23:36programs that are going to sustain these
1:23:38efforts it's putting in place the
1:23:40foundational elements of this I think
1:23:43then the the numbers uh that we're going
1:23:45to be looking at in terms of
1:23:46representation are going to increase
1:23:48over time but I'm most interested in
1:23:50institutionalizing some of these changes
1:23:52so it's not just a study that is
1:23:54forgotten about I think that's important
1:23:55and you you also said uh in a number of
1:23:58ways during your responses that um the
1:24:01question of what is the role of
1:24:02government as uh we see entities such as
1:24:06ISO using every means to spread their
1:24:08propaganda and encouraging Lone Wolf
1:24:10acts in uh not just in our country but
1:24:13all throughout the world and and I did
1:24:15want to you seem to indicate that uh in
1:24:18order for us to determine what the
1:24:19appropriate governmental role should be
1:24:22that one approach would be a commission
1:24:24I think that's what Senator Warner's
1:24:26bill is to create a commission to enable
1:24:28us to figure out what government's role
1:24:31should be along with uh you know with
1:24:34input from a lot of other folks like you
1:24:38so would you say that is the best way
1:24:40for us because you have said that the
1:24:43role of government is one that we
1:24:45haven't quite figured out I don't know
1:24:47what the best way is but I just know
1:24:49that it has to be an effort undertaken
1:24:51by the government and the private sector
1:24:53in a very thoughtful manner that looks
1:24:56at the various dimensions of the problem
1:24:59and is going to come forward with a
1:25:01number of options recommendations about
1:25:04how to optimize what we're trying to do
1:25:07on the national security privacy civil
1:25:09liberties front that protects this
1:25:11country and not seed this environment to
1:25:14the terrorists and those who want to do
1:25:16us harm I do believe that with the
1:25:19tremendous technological advant advances
1:25:21like encryption and other things they
1:25:23are taking advantage of the Liberties
1:25:26that we have so fought so hard to uh to
1:25:29defend and I think right now although
1:25:32other people have talked about the need
1:25:34to figure out what we're going to be
1:25:36doing in this cyber um space we I don't
1:25:40think we've put in place any kind of a a
1:25:42cohesive or coherent process let me turn
1:25:45to China uh the ha is expected to rule
1:25:48about China's claims in the South China
1:25:50Sea soon and and it's anticipated that
1:25:52the ruling will support the Philippines
1:25:54case that China has made excessive
1:25:56claims about its Maritime sovereignty
1:25:58can you just briefly discuss your
1:26:00assessment of what China's response
1:26:02might be to such a ruling and could um
1:26:05the expected ruling be a trigger for
1:26:07further escalation by China well in the
1:26:10recent conference the shanga conference
1:26:12in Singapore the Chinese representative
1:26:14Admiral sun made very clear that they
1:26:16don't recognize the legitimacy of the
1:26:18arbitration tribunal uh nor I think uh
1:26:21will uh aced to its uh its findings uh
1:26:26so U secretary Carter made very clear
1:26:28that uh we certainly do recognize that
1:26:31there needs to be this type of
1:26:32arbitration given that there are a
1:26:34number of of claimants to some of these
1:26:38uh features in the sea um and it's not
1:26:42just the Philippines it's other
1:26:43countries as well and so there needs to
1:26:45be a an agreed upon uh mechanism that
1:26:48will be able to resolve these
1:26:49outstanding uh disputes I think the
1:26:51United States has made very clear uh the
1:26:54importance of uh protecting freedom of
1:26:57navigation uh in uh that part of the
1:26:59world and we'll continue to uh take
1:27:02steps to uh make sure that people
1:27:04understand the United States is
1:27:05committed to Freedom navigation uh
1:27:08worldwide thank you thank you Mr chair
1:27:11thank you Senator uh do any Senators
1:27:13seek additional questions Senator widen
1:27:15has asked for one yes um the vice
1:27:19chairman also U asked me director to ask
1:27:22you a couple of questions
1:27:25uh she had to leave for an
1:27:26Appropriations uh meeting at 10:30
1:27:29what's your assessment of North Korea's
1:27:31cyber capabilities and
1:27:35intentions I think that the the North
1:27:37Koreans uh have a developed a cyber
1:27:41capability as we've seen some recent
1:27:43incidents over the last year or two
1:27:45where it has been employed I think it is
1:27:47something that we need to be concerned
1:27:50about uh given uh Kim jong's pension to
1:27:53use whatever capabilities he might have
1:27:55to uh cause uh problems uh so uh we can
1:28:00get uh back to the vice chairman as more
1:28:02detailed answer uh about their
1:28:04capabilities as well as potential
1:28:06intentions great one last question from
1:28:08the vice chairman isil's getting all the
1:28:11attention today they're not the only
1:28:14terrorist organization out there what
1:28:17are we doing um and how concerned are
1:28:20you on
1:28:21aqap and um other potential
1:28:26organizations the vice chairman is
1:28:27absolutely right there are a number of
1:28:28terrorist organizations al-qaed araban
1:28:30Peninsula continues to be very active
1:28:32inside of Yemen it has several thousand
1:28:34uh adherents uh and Fighters uh there
1:28:37has been recent efforts uh collaborative
1:28:39efforts between the United States along
1:28:41with the uaee and and Saudi Arabia and
1:28:44and Yemen to dislodge aqap from the port
1:28:47city of Mulla was successful it drove
1:28:49them out but there is an active effort
1:28:52underway to uh continue to uh dismantle
1:28:55and destroy that organization but also
1:28:57there is uh the uh organizations in the
1:29:00afpac area uh led by the Taliban the
1:29:03hakan that continue to engage in
1:29:04terrorist attacks lashka TBA we work
1:29:07very closely with uh services in the
1:29:09area including the Indians and others to
1:29:11try to guard against their ability to
1:29:13carry out those attacks so this is
1:29:15something that uh we continue to uh have
1:29:18to dedicate a lot of resources to as you
1:29:20know Iman zahi the head of al-Qaeda uh
1:29:23still uh is out there and continues to
1:29:26put out audio statements and other
1:29:27things exhorting his followers so this
1:29:29is a uh a continued challenge for us
1:29:32Cinder widen for a question just a quick
1:29:34comment and and a fast question on this
1:29:36encryption issue Mr director you have
1:29:38been clear that you think that there's a
1:29:40government role here you got me at hello
1:29:42on that I mean there's no no question
1:29:45that there are ways that government can
1:29:47strengthen the personal safety of
1:29:49Americans at a dangerous time and I for
1:29:51example think it makes sense to hire
1:29:53people people with uh extensive
1:29:55experience in science and technology
1:29:57like we have for example in Oregon
1:29:59silicon Forest so I can give you plenty
1:30:01of names what I don't want to do though
1:30:04is I don't want to go backwards on
1:30:06digital security which is what's going
1:30:08to happen if the government if the
1:30:10Congress requires that back doors are
1:30:12built into the products of this country
1:30:14so we will continue that debate and I
1:30:16just want to make that clear as we wrap
1:30:18up Senator Langford uh asked an
1:30:22appropriate question with respect to
1:30:23briefing a new president or what would
1:30:25you say to a new president and I think
1:30:27I've heard you touch on this but I'd
1:30:29like to get it formally for the record
1:30:31director Brennan if the next president
1:30:32of the United States directs the agency
1:30:35directs the CIA to resume the use of
1:30:38coercive interrogation techniques how
1:30:42would you
1:30:43respond um I have said publicly that I
1:30:46do not believe uh such aggressive
1:30:48coercive techniques uh are necessary uh
1:30:51as you know the cia's detention
1:30:53interrogation program was disbanded and
1:30:56uh I certainly while I am director of
1:30:58CIA have no intention of bringing such a
1:31:00program back and would not engage in uh
1:31:03EIT such as water boarding and other
1:31:05things ever all right thank you Mr
1:31:06chairman Senator
1:31:08King quick question about uh isil in
1:31:11Libya uh any chance they're going to get
1:31:14ah hold of any of Libya's oil
1:31:17capabilities oil because that's where a
1:31:19lot of their revenues have come from in
1:31:21Syria and Iraq uh how do you assess
1:31:24the security of the of the oil Assets in
1:31:27Syria I mean in
1:31:28Libya I don't think anything in Libya is
1:31:31overly secure there have been attempts
1:31:33made and assaults uh upon some of those
1:31:36oil facilities but uh to date Isel has
1:31:38not been able to gain control of them
1:31:41there we'll have to get back and see
1:31:42whether or not there are sort of pockets
1:31:44of areas uh where isil has been able to
1:31:46encroach but there are some challenges
1:31:49there and there number of uh security
1:31:51militias and firms that are in that area
1:31:54that have prevented isil from taking it
1:31:56over but we'll get you more thorough
1:31:57response I know I said it was my final
1:31:59question but I got to know I knew better
1:32:01my wife says I say finally too much it
1:32:03gets people's hopes up um she's a smart
1:32:07woman uh Afghanistan we haven't talked
1:32:10about Afghanistan at all what's what's
1:32:12your assessment of the security
1:32:14situation in Afghanistan there's a
1:32:16there's a proposed draw down of our
1:32:18troops which has to start sometime this
1:32:21in the early fall if it's going to
1:32:22achieve the 5,000 troop number in in
1:32:25January uh give us an assessment of the
1:32:29of the situation is the is there a I
1:32:33guess the short the short question is
1:32:35does the government have a chance or is
1:32:37Taliban is Taliban just waiting and uh
1:32:40they're going to take back
1:32:42over we're in the near the height of of
1:32:44the fighting season uh the number of of
1:32:48uh casualties on on both sides in terms
1:32:50of the ansf the Afghan National Security
1:32:53forces and the Taliban I think are
1:32:54greater this year than we have seen in
1:32:57in a long long time because of the
1:32:59number of engagements which means that I
1:33:01think the Afghan forces are stepping up
1:33:04and engaging in the fight more as US
1:33:06forces have drawn down but also I think
1:33:08it reflects the intensity of the Taliban
1:33:10efforts they're really trying to erode
1:33:13uh the government hold in a number of
1:33:15areas we have worked very closely with
1:33:17the Afghans we the US government to have
1:33:19them better consolidate their forces so
1:33:21that they can protect the critical
1:33:23infrastructure in the cities and Transit
1:33:25routes but the Taliban is determined
1:33:27working with the the hakan subgroup of
1:33:30the Taliban uh so there is continued
1:33:32concern about the taliban's ability to
1:33:36uh carry out these attacks uh both in
1:33:39some of the outlying areas but also as
1:33:40they try to go after the provincial
1:33:42capitals as well as as kabell so it is
1:33:45it is still uncertain in my mind whether
1:33:47or not uh the the Taliban is going to
1:33:50continue to make uh incremental progress
1:33:53uh we are providing support to our
1:33:55Afghan intelligence Partners so that
1:33:57they have the capabilities that they
1:33:58need but uh the there is still a long
1:34:02hard fight ahead in Afghanistan for the
1:34:04Afghan government thank you thank you Mr
1:34:06chairman thank you Senator King U
1:34:08director thank you the two takeaways
1:34:11from your testimony that I certainly
1:34:14heard that are relevant to
1:34:17today there'll be an increase in global
1:34:19terrorism as more pressure is applied in
1:34:22the battle space and I think that's
1:34:23something that um uh we we certainly
1:34:26have seen up to this point there's no
1:34:28reason to expect that that doesn't
1:34:29increase and that isil has become a
1:34:32global ogre organization and I think
1:34:34sometimes we treat them in a very small
1:34:36geographical footprint but they have
1:34:38very quickly and quietly grown to be
1:34:40that that Global
1:34:42organization now i' I'd like to give a
1:34:44closing statement uh I'm not sure that
1:34:47I've done that before but I feel
1:34:48compelled and I'm not going to speak for
1:34:50the vice chairman but I I think she
1:34:52would probably associate with most of
1:34:54what I'll
1:34:55say this feud between the intell between
1:34:58the tech companies and the intelligence
1:35:00community and law enforcement has to
1:35:05stop encryption is the issue that we uh
1:35:10that we describe it as but this is much
1:35:14more technology is going to drive the
1:35:16United States economy for the next 50
1:35:18years and the global economy as well it
1:35:21is the secret sauce for our children and
1:35:23our grandchildren to have unlimited
1:35:26opportunities not success but
1:35:29opportunities when the vice chairman and
1:35:31I committed to at least lay on the table
1:35:34a solution to encryption it was not with
1:35:36the belief that we were smarter than
1:35:37anybody else it's we understood what was
1:35:40at stake and we were willing to take the
1:35:42Heat and as you know director we've
1:35:44taken a lot of it and I don't regret it
1:35:48because I think what we had hoped was
1:35:50that we would start a national debate in
1:35:52this country about what the appropriate
1:35:54role of government is that for the
1:35:57American people to understand that for
1:35:59our agencies to prevent and protect them
1:36:03that that comes with a price and that
1:36:06this debate is about what that cost
1:36:08might be and what we're willing to
1:36:09accept uh we can't separate the world
1:36:12based upon who's domained domestically
1:36:15and who um is domained in foreign
1:36:18countries yeah we that's the beauty of
1:36:21the internet it really doesn't matter
1:36:23but if wasn't important to locate in the
1:36:25United States we'd probably have very
1:36:27little manufacturing because most of
1:36:29them's customers are overseas but
1:36:30they're here and they're here for an
1:36:32important reason they're here because we
1:36:35have in our foundational structure
1:36:38things that they find important and at
1:36:40the top of the list is the rule of law
1:36:43and I point to what one Tech leader
1:36:46said uh as the vice chair and I launched
1:36:50the encryption um debate to the it is
1:36:55today we can't trust a judge on the
1:36:58bench to hear from the intelligence
1:37:00Community or law enforcement and
1:37:03understand whether somebody's met the
1:37:05threshold that they need to reach to
1:37:07Access Communications or
1:37:11data well let me say today if we've
1:37:14gotten to a point where we don't trust a
1:37:15judge on the bench we have just gutted
1:37:19the rule of law in the United States
1:37:22this to me is about so much more than
1:37:25encryption this is about whether the
1:37:28United States is going to be the
1:37:29innovator of the world for the next 50
1:37:31years it's about what the Next
1:37:34Generation has as opportunities and oh
1:37:36yes freedoms protection of personal
1:37:41data and prevention of terrorist
1:37:43acts um if if we can't prosecute
1:37:48criminals by an by a district attorney
1:37:51or by a usor attorney because they can't
1:37:55gather the information they need to make
1:37:58a case in
1:37:59court then talking about Orlando we'll
1:38:04talk about crime in every Community
1:38:06across this country because we're going
1:38:08to have individuals that committed that
1:38:10walk and live next door to us every day
1:38:13so I I use the platform today I I don't
1:38:17think I find disagreement from you or or
1:38:19or from others in law enforcement either
1:38:21nationally or locally cuz we've heard
1:38:23from a lot of them but I really believe
1:38:26that we need to take it heart that what
1:38:28we do affects the intersection of the
1:38:31rule of law and technology in the future
1:38:33and we're much better off to have that
1:38:35debate today than we are to wait until
1:38:37something happens and we need it and the
1:38:39pendulum swings too far Allah post 911
1:38:44and we did some things then that we
1:38:45thought were right today looking back we
1:38:48wouldn't do them again we all agree this
1:38:50is an opportunity to get this one right
1:38:53not to go too far but to go to the right
1:38:56place the right point so director I want
1:38:58to thank you for your testimony I want
1:39:00to thank you for the uh resolve of your
1:39:03Workforce I also want to highlight the
1:39:06professional staff of this committee I
1:39:08think they are incredibly talented
1:39:10incredibly dedicated they travel to very
1:39:14unpopular spots where your officers are
1:39:17on a regular basis uh they do it not to
1:39:21gain mileage points
1:39:23uh they do it to live up to the mission
1:39:26of this committee which is oversight of
1:39:29your agency and the rest of the
1:39:31intelligence community on behalf of 85
1:39:34other members of the United States
1:39:35Senate and oh by the way for the
1:39:37American people uh we are the ones that
1:39:40testify and and certify that you do
1:39:43things within the letter of the law or a
1:39:45Presidential Directive and that we don't
1:39:47overstep those bounds and when we do
1:39:49it's this committee's responsibility to
1:39:51report it and Pull It in um so they
1:39:54deserve uh credit because they don't get
1:39:57that credit very
1:39:58often please uh pass to your employees
1:40:02our sincere gratitude for the job they
1:40:04do we look forward to your your next
1:40:06visit with us it probably won't be open
1:40:08and there'll be some disappointed souls
1:40:10in the audience U but we will do it uh
1:40:13uh in a much productive way thank you Mr
1:40:16director hearing to journe

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