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Chris Watts Family Murders - #2: Nichol Kessinger Interviews — Transcript

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0:03[Music]
0:28special agent F ch today's date is
0:30August 15 2018 interviewing uh Nicole
0:35kessinger with Mark Clair
1:28out of so what's his
1:34name Duke
1:45Duke down
2:26open
2:46all right
3:26to do a tinkle buddy
3:38talking
3:45[Music]
3:47unici right so whatever you're Comfort
3:51talking
3:53about so I met Chris at work he's not
3:58like one of my direct coworkers he just
4:00like Works kind of in passing in the
4:02same office building me I met
4:05him I don't know probably around the
4:07beginning of June maybe before that
4:11um and we kind of talked in passing and
4:14then started to get to know each other
4:16and we started hanging out pretty
4:17frequently around I want to say like the
4:19last week of June somewhere around there
4:22um and have continued to talk until then
4:26y um he informed me that he did have two
4:30kids I knew that he had two daughters um
4:33he also told me that he was currently in
4:35the process of the separation from his
4:38wife
4:40um and
4:45so that um he's he was in the process of
4:48a separation from his wife and as far as
4:52I knew that was becoming pretty
4:55finalized um and then
5:00Monday afternoon he told me
5:03that she was like gone and he didn't
5:06know where she
5:07was and at that point I don't think that
5:12it set off any alarms in my head just
5:17because I mean I I have friends that I
5:21text and if I don't hear from them for
5:23like 3 hours or 6 hours or even like a
5:26couple days I don't feel
5:29concerned about where they're at because
5:31it's kind of a standard thing for me um
5:35but then she didn't come home that night
5:37I was like okay well maybe she'll come
5:39back and I was kind of under the
5:41impression since they're separating that
5:43maybe she decided to take the kids maybe
5:46she decided to
5:48just leave for a few days I don't know I
5:51was just I I I felt like maybe she was
5:53just trying to get some space and I
5:55figured maybe that was why she left her
5:57stuff there to just get some it um and
6:02then he yesterday rolled around and
6:05she's still not
6:07around um and that started to seem
6:10really concerning for me that people
6:12still don't know where she is um and
6:15they don't know what those little girls
6:16are and um at that point I was like you
6:20know what I I hope something did not
6:23happened to her it did not happen to her
6:25children and that was when I decided
6:27that is probably a good idea to just
6:29come talk to you guys and just let you
6:31know that I've been spending time with
6:35Chris and that that's as far as this
6:39guy so I just that's it well thank you
6:44thank appreciate so so prior to June did
6:48you know him did you guys have any did
6:50you know any relationship any didn't
6:53know him at all no I didn't know him at
6:54all met at work in in June M okay and
6:57what's the company you guys go for we
6:59both for well I'm a contractor so
7:01technically I don't work for the same
7:03company but we both work for a company
7:04called andar petring corporation like
7:06we're in the same building at the same
7:08time so we don't actually like work
7:11together it's literally like a i and
7:14hallway kind of thing it's not
7:17even and then you do your position uh I
7:21do
7:22shff so HS okay and you're still
7:26currently employ yes
7:27sir and then so you guys met did you
7:31start
7:32communicating um you know via email text
7:35phone messages how did how did s the
7:37relationship Dev so we started talking
7:39through text message and through phone
7:41calls
7:46um take your time take time that's how
7:48it I mean that's how it started sure
7:50okay and then did your relationship
7:52develop beond friendship yes okay and
7:56then did he say anything to you about
7:59what where he felt the relationship was
8:01going to be going or what was hoping for
8:04for the
8:05future I think that he was looking for a
8:10relationship with me um but I knew that
8:14he was in the process of the separation
8:16so for me I was kind of having a hard
8:18time with that where it's like you know
8:20cuz he he told me oh we're putting the
8:21house up for sale we're putting the
8:23house up for sale um and I told him you
8:27know I'm not comfortable with
8:31with considering you my significant
8:33other and vice versa while you
8:37are still like in the midst of a divorce
8:42like was like you know once you and her
8:45are finalized with the divorce I'm like
8:47once you and your kids have your new
8:50location that you wanted to move to set
8:52up once all of that is where it needs to
8:55be I'm like then you and me can talk
8:57about you know eventually like dating
9:02seriously and like building something
9:05with each other but I mean that was kind
9:07of
9:08the my standstill on that you know and I
9:12I feel guilty that I should have like
9:14waited
9:16to I guess like initiate anything that
9:20we had together um
9:22until after abor finalized as opposed to
9:26doing it while they were separating
9:33like and this I it's not uncomon but
9:37it's not we appreciate you being forite
9:39with us and telling us about this
9:41because it it is significant you know
9:43we're trying to go through everything
9:44that we can as far as investigation
9:47right now to figure out what happened or
9:49what's happening so we appreciate you
9:52telling us about this
9:55I so can you tell me a little bit more
9:57those so you started talking and then
10:00when did it develop into more than just
10:03talking and more than just friendship
10:04just like the beginning of July July and
10:08then uh did you guys continue to see
10:10each other up
10:11until be Monday I saw him on Saturday
10:15that was less I okay okay and then you
10:18walk me through that on Saturday um like
10:21what you guys to
10:22do um so when we spent time together I
10:26didn't really like go to his house I we
10:29spend time at my house
10:33um he uh went out for dinner that's what
10:37we did he said he had a babysitter and
10:38he had to wait for the
10:40babysitter and met up I
10:46don't five or six and we actually we
10:49tried to go to a restaurant down the
10:51street from my house but I didn't like
10:53the menu so we left and then we went to
10:55another one B 144 it's called the lazy
10:58dog and we went up there and we had
11:00dinner and then he came back to my house
11:03and hang out with me for probably like
11:0415 minutes and then he left cuz he said
11:09he that was Saturday night that was
11:11Saturday that's the last time I
11:13saw and did you guys was there anything
11:16else uh that you was it just dinner did
11:18you go any place else and visit any
11:20other no we just went to dinner that's
11:21one of the only times I've actually ever
11:22been out public but yeah just
11:27didn't it's so the most time in the past
11:31uh whenever you guys were together it
11:32was at your your house or was it like
11:34going out somewhere typically not I mean
11:37we've done a few things but
11:44not and
11:46sat time frame I think it was probably
11:49like 5 to
11:5110 somewhere around there and I don't
11:53think it was 10 we had to be back by 10
11:56so I think it was a little bit before
11:57that I think it was like 9:30 but
11:59somewhere in there and I remember it
12:01might have been like a little after 52
12:03all I know is baby said it was going to
12:04get there around that time and be back
12:06410 so give take drive time
12:10hour and when he came to your house
12:13picked you up your house I don't really
12:16like ride in his car I've been in that
12:19that white car they have once but other
12:22than that we take my everywhere always
12:25when you came to your house what
12:27go uh you know I didn't even pay
12:30attention to that but probably his I
12:32don't think he really takes that APC
12:34truck anywhere doesn't
12:36have because usually he when he come see
12:39you the white vehicle yeah okay and then
12:44when you guys went out did you take your
12:45vehicle to go wherever you going yeah
12:48okay okay and so you had dinner was
12:52there anything else any other discussion
12:54about
12:57anything talk about
13:00relationship
13:02with that come up I I mean I've been
13:05helping him trying to like find a new
13:07spot so I'm sure we talked about like
13:09hey CU I know we were trying to set up a
13:10time this week to go like have him he
13:13want he was looking for a two-bedroom
13:14apartment he wanted to get an apartment
13:16that was for him and his girls and
13:20so sometimes I mean we talk about that
13:22recently because he's just like I got to
13:24find a place and we were supposed to go
13:26look at some stuff this week we were
13:28trying to get it set up um before all
13:31this happened um so I mean like a little
13:34bit of stuff but it's never like
13:36directly him and his life it's typically
13:39like this is what's going on and I'm
13:41just like well I will give you a helping
13:44hand if you're trying to find a spot
13:46like I'll look at apartments for you
13:48guys and like I would tell them oh I
13:50found an apartment that's like got a
13:52pool for your kiddos and it's got a park
13:53for your kiddos and it's close to work
13:56and close to the gym and and you know
13:58and trying to make sure that he got a
13:59place that was close to where um his
14:03ex-wife would be staying so that they
14:06were all you know essentially located to
14:09each other and just really trying to
14:10help him to get set up so that he could
14:13have a good working relationship with
14:15her um with the kids and then he could
14:18be in a location that was like safe and
14:20Sally located and good for the kids
14:22themselves when we had him and so that I
14:24mean just kinding of like help him to
14:26like transition and then good dad and
14:29make sure that he there
14:33do and then after Saturday when was the
14:37next time oh I talk to him all the time
14:39he hasn't texted me today because I
14:41asked him yesterday not to but if I was
14:43to text him right now I bet he'd respond
14:45in like five minutes and he has no idea
14:48I'm talk to you guys nobody does my dad
14:50is the only person that's in on this
14:51Loop like no one I know knows that
14:54I spent time with him I don't think
14:57anybody he knows knows that I spent time
14:58with him and like besides the three
15:00people at this table it's
15:02just no no coworkers no nobody okay are
15:07you and you're confident that you didn't
15:09say anything to anybody about your
15:10relationship I'm pretty positive he did
15:12not okay so and then um as far as texts
15:18and phone calls since Saturday has
15:20anything been odd to you anything that
15:22he said or written that strikes you as
15:25being strange or or not toothful
15:29well so I talked to him on Sunday night
15:33and he was fine on Sunday night I didn't
15:36have any issu with him um and then
15:39Monday I think we shot each other like a
15:41couple texts at work but him and I get
15:43real busy both of us do at work so it
15:45was just kind of like and it was like
15:47just mundane [ __ ] conversation you
15:49know um and then Monday afternoon I came
15:53home from work and I was actually had a
15:56friend over in my house um he's not
15:59invol knows nothing about this at all
16:01but like I I went to meet up with a
16:02friend and then um he kept he texted me
16:06and told me something along the lines of
16:07like my wife and my kids AR the
16:10H I was just like okay and that was that
16:14was on day it was on Monday you know
16:16what time was uh honestly I'm kind of
16:20upset with him right now just
16:22disappointed with him so I uh
16:29but um probably realistically I'll tell
16:32you it happened like right after I
16:34walked in the door to meet up with my
16:36friend and I let me see so Monday I got
16:40off to work at 300 p.m. takes me
16:42probably like 40 minutes to get home and
16:44I had just walked in the door so how
16:46about 3:45 that's probably about right
16:50okay and so he he sent that
16:53then and I was like really confused but
16:57I wasn't concerned at that point because
17:00it was just like she's not home like she
17:03at the grocery store I mean it was just
17:05it was like all right I didn't realize
17:07like the seriousness of the situation at
17:09that point time
17:12um but no she didn't come home that
17:15night and then um I talked to him that
17:18night too and he really didn't seem
17:25like I mean he was like concerned about
17:27his kids definitely
17:29but he didn't seem like he was at that
17:32point worried that something horrible
17:35had happened he was just kind of like I
17:38don't know where they're at it's
17:39stressing me out and I mean and I could
17:41hear it in his voice like he sounded
17:44kind of scared like he was just worried
17:46about them you know he's like I don't
17:48know where she is like I don't know why
17:50she do stuff I mean so he was he was
17:52worried but it
17:56wasn't I mean worried like I think
17:59somebody would sound if somebody they
18:01loved was not at home you know but at
18:03the same time I think at that point he
18:05was convinced I was convinced that she
18:09probably just left today like I really
18:11thought I was like you know what I bet
18:13she just needed a break from him and she
18:14need some quiet and she probably took
18:16the kids and she'll be back in like a
18:17day that's kind of like how I had it in
18:20my head so did he say you about whether
18:24anything was missing from the house not
18:26missing if there's you signs of anything
18:29suspicious if he he just said that she
18:32left or he he didn't know where she was
18:34he didn't know where she was he didn't
18:36say she left he's just like I don't know
18:37where she at and as well yeah okay so I
18:42mean and I think he sounded genuinely
18:44concern I mean those are his kids and
18:48from the impression that I get he's a
18:49great dad and he's all about them he
18:51loves those little girls and so you know
18:54for me I like I could tell when I could
18:56like hear it in his voice that he
18:57sounded concerned it was just like those
19:00little girls I'm sure you know and and I
19:03think he's just worried about the whole
19:05situation like I don't know what I'll
19:06feel I don't
19:11know and then since um so since then
19:15since on Monday have it been have you
19:18spoke to them on the phone or has it
19:19just been text messages or both I
19:23think I did not talk to
19:27was um you I'm sorry you did or you
19:29didn't I did not we texted each other
19:32yesterday but there was no like phone
19:33conversation yesterday but Monday was on
19:36the phone yeah at night like at the end
19:38of the night I talked to him I just
19:40remember being like really tired and I
19:41want to go to bed but I was just like
19:43trying to make sure he was okay try to
19:45make sure his family okay asking him
19:50like long
19:52conversation I think we talked twice
19:54like I think we talked a little
20:06of it um it was probably pretty
20:10extended did did anything jump out at
20:13you in that
20:15conversation
20:17OD did he say anything to you about
20:20anything you and him like anything had
20:23changed or anything was different now
20:26nothing all
20:31okay so just seemed concerned and just
20:33uh he was worried you know I mean I was
20:36worried too I just didn't I I thought
20:39she just left her day that's really what
20:40I thought and then again like yesterday
20:42when she just like didn't come home I
20:44was
20:45like oh maybe this is like something
20:48really serious and and again I mean like
20:50with my friends it wouldn't be something
20:53that would draw attention if I didn't
20:55talk to them immediately and I knew that
20:57they were going through a separation so
20:59the fact that one person is leaving for
21:01maybe a day that doesn't seem out of the
21:04ordinary for because somebody Mar the
21:06fact that all of her stuff was still
21:08there though that seem was kind of
21:13strange and did he tell you about
21:15anything that was going on with with her
21:18as far as was she singing anybody or was
21:21or um had she talked about plans that
21:24she was going to do if she was going to
21:25leave she was going to come from some
21:27place else as far as I knew um he kept
21:30it pretty short and sweet he was like
21:33when he if she ever came up in
21:35conversation he was very like civil
21:38about her like he never had anything
21:40like negative or derogatory to say about
21:43her he just told me you know we're
21:45separating this is why and that was
21:48about it and then when did he say why
21:52did he say what his what his reason was
21:54reason was for separating he just said
21:56that they like really didn't connect
21:58very well anym and um I don't know I
22:01think financially they have different
22:03ideas of how they want to do with their
22:05lives so I mean that he never I mean
22:07just wasn't like negative about her you
22:10know and it was something that was
22:11pretty removed from
22:14all what we had going on so you know um
22:18and I know she's good mom so she's good
22:22mom
22:26but did he have the you say that he
22:29wasn't in love with her anymore or
22:32anything like
22:33that was he in with
22:38you were you in with
22:41him I think it could have gotten there
22:43had things played out like in a decent
22:49manner but they're not because this is a
22:51horrible situation I don't know where
22:53she's at and it's really concerning me
22:55that this woman and her children
22:58cannot be located it's it's not okay it
23:02scares me and I'm worri for all of them
23:05yeah and we are too and obviously want
23:07to get to the bottom of this and and
23:09that's that's you know some of the
23:10questions I'm asking going to ask are
23:12just trying to get to the bottom of this
23:14understandable yeah and so when when he
23:17when he told you that he was in love
23:19with you did that it was that was that
23:22recent was that uh right away you know
23:26was that like in July or it was probably
23:29like a couple weeks
23:31ago and did you talk about you anything
23:34like saying you know I'm in love with
23:35you now and I want to have a life
23:38together I want to
23:42do I mean like yeah we talk about the
23:45future I think all couples do talk about
23:47the future but it was never
23:49like hey I'm like leaving her we're
23:52going to get a house together you're
23:54moving in with me it was never like this
23:56a like very full thing and you know and
23:59I even told him I was like if we're
24:00going to build a relationship one thing
24:02is that if you're getting a divorce You'
24:05been married for a long time I think it
24:06would be wise for you to spend a lot of
24:08time on your own I was like and I pre I
24:10recently got out of relationship earlier
24:12this year and I think it's also healthy
24:14for me to spend time on my own and I
24:16told him I was like you know like I I
24:19respect like
24:21monogamy situation but like but
24:25um at the end of the day it's like you
24:28need and I would tell him that it's like
24:29you know once you guys all your
24:31paperworks finalized and you guys have
24:33decided to separate and you're in your
24:36own spot with your kids I was like I
24:38think the days that you're with your
24:40kids you need to be with them like full
24:42time you know I'm not ready to meet your
24:44children he didn't even ask me to meet
24:45his children I mean not yet you know but
24:47I told him I was like in the future
24:48eventually if we get to that point where
24:50we think we're ready yes but I'm not
24:51ready to meet your kids they're not
24:53ready to meet me you're not ready to
24:55have me meet them and I just tell them
24:56you know like I think we should take our
24:58time like ideally I would only like that
25:00with you like you know on the days that
25:03you don't and I was like in the rest of
25:06those days I was like spend time with
25:07yourself man I was like you've been in a
25:09relationship for a really long time like
25:10just spend time like doing whatever it
25:13is that you do that makes you happy you
25:14know and and and really try to like take
25:18a responsible
25:20approach to getting in a relation
25:29should I have waited till he was like
25:31officially completely 100% on paper
25:33divorced he moved out of our house yes
25:35that's my mistake but after that
25:37everything going
25:41forward
25:51it and now you already said that youbody
25:55has children did you ever meet one year
25:58ever at
26:00time when was
26:10that
26:13was second week in July
26:16second so was just that one time just
26:19one I had no desire to go over there I
26:21mean that's
26:23like situation where he living with
26:25somebody that he's separating from not
26:28my life like that's their life you know
26:30and I started tell him like the time you
26:33spend with me spend at my house because
26:34this is our space and that's not my
26:37space and for me I think it's really
26:39disrespectful to go over there and so um
26:41we stopped by there once like on the way
26:45to my house and I was there for maybe
26:48like 15 minutes and I saw a picture of
26:52her holding her
26:54kids so beautiful and I remember
26:57thinking like how your little
26:58beautiful too and um and we left and I
27:03remember telling him after that it was
27:05like have you ever thought about like
27:07really trying to fix your marriage with
27:08her and he's like I don't really want to
27:11and I was just like man like you got a
27:13beautiful wife like she's the mother of
27:15two of your kids and I'm just like you
27:18already have all of this stuff like you
27:20already have the house and the car and
27:22the kids and the marriage and the wife
27:24and I'm
27:26like are you sure you don't want to fix
27:28that I'm like cuz what if you like try
27:29to start over with somebody else and
27:31like what if hypothetically like we
27:33didn't work out or or you know what I'm
27:35saying or like just any of that where
27:37it's
27:39like you should at least give her the
27:41benefit of the doubt you know and he
27:43told me like I'm try to talk for about
27:44all this Stu a few times and it's just
27:46not working out and I'm like all right
27:48you know I mean if you if you're trying
27:50to separate from her and it's pretty
27:53finalized and I will respect that but I
27:55mean just being in that house made me
27:57feel like
27:58he should he should just try to fix it
28:01like I actually like kind of stepped
28:02away from him for a little while and
28:04just
28:06like maybe I don't know I felt like I
28:09wasn't sure if I wanted to like carry on
28:12because I'm really with him because I
28:14really wanted him to try to fix stuff
28:15and then you know he was emphasiz to me
28:17like there's no fixing it all right so
28:20we just Pi up we left off um but yes so
28:23once long time AG go okay and that so
28:26that was in the middle of yeah I think
28:28it was like the I think it was the
28:30second weekend of July I'm
28:32almost was a relationship in by that yes
28:35it was okay and then as far as his work
28:38truck goes will you ever in his work
28:40truck no just know which one it is but
28:43I've never been in it and then I think I
28:45asked you this but the white vehicle I
28:47know he drove that but were you ever in
28:49a white
28:50vehicle one time okay com about that I'm
28:54trying to figure out where we went I
28:56think it was like something quick my
28:58truck everywhere it was a while
29:01ago I don't remember where it at like I
29:04think it was something quick like I
29:05think he had to like run an errand or
29:07something at like the grow just like
29:10hisid vehicle but we other than that
29:12like never I was always in my
29:16truck if I can remember like when that
29:18was I'll let you know but it like wasn't
29:20anything like you were going on a date
29:22it wasn't like it wasn't like nothing I
29:24think it was a quick trip to go
29:25somewhere it was just like hey I'll
29:26drive okay actually going to be another
29:29question have you guys ever g a vacation
29:31together we went to the
29:37sand it was pretty recent couple
29:40weeks how'd that go how long took was
29:43that uh we went
29:46for like a day we left Saturday came
29:49back on Sunday we stayed one night out
29:53there do do you think that is anybody
29:58know that you guys were going on that
29:59trip together uh I think a lot of people
30:02knew but they didn't know who it was
30:04with so on your side or on his nobody on
30:08my side I mean people knew I was going
30:09to sand but my friends no questioning
30:11that I was just I'm going to sand for
30:13the weekend and then
30:16um I'm pretty sure I asked him I was
30:19like does anybody know you're going sand
30:20he said yes but I don't think he told
30:24with me I think he told was with some
30:26other people all yeah so you and you're
30:30pretty confident that he didn't mention
30:32you I don't think anybody in his life
30:34knows about me I really don't like at
30:37all like I'd be willing to like say like
30:39100% I highly doubt anybody
30:41else don't see it what about social
30:44media I don't have you don't have any
30:47soci I have nothing so there was no
30:49interaction like Facebook Messenger nope
30:52I don't have Facebook I don't I have
30:54nothing I literally nothing I have an
30:56email
30:58for like general purposes but we never
31:00even emailed I I don't have any soci I
31:02haven't for a long time I recently
31:05deleted my link in but that was like
31:08yeah
31:22[Music]
31:25andb I got
31:29anything in that that is uh different or
31:34stands out I mean it was like kind of
31:36sappy but it was not like anything out
31:39of the ordinary for people that are
31:40dating it was a
31:43card and then um I know he was going to
31:46the gym and stuff got into working out
31:48heing out of
31:51house B bad I'm sorry I got hit here too
31:56so so we're both been up a little bit um
32:00so so I obious
32:07out I go to my gym and I he works
32:27the most gentle
32:44and
32:46where gentle
32:52[Music]
32:58ever say anything like you know
33:15really so excited to about
33:20always
33:21um no uh but one thing I did want to let
33:24you guys know is that uh I was looking
33:27at
33:37and I found out that she is 15 weeks
33:41pregnant I did not know
33:45[Music]
33:50that I was pretty taken back by that I
33:53just felt kind of like disappointed with
33:55him and not with the situation I mean if
33:57she's pregnant that's a beautiful thing
34:00um that is information that definitely
34:03with held from me uh so I had to find
34:06that out to the media and I asked him
34:08about it
34:10yesterday and he kept telling he's like
34:12it's not mine it's not
34:14mine and um he just kept telling me it
34:18wasn't his and he's like you mad I was
34:20like no I'm not mad at all I just like
34:23really surprised and I was just like
34:24please tell me the truth like don't lie
34:27to me please don't lie to me like this
34:29this whole relationship in a sense if
34:31you think about it is kind of
34:33like it just it needs to be as honest as
34:36possible so
34:40um yeah I asked him to tell me the truth
34:42and he kept denying it a few times and I
34:44was just like Chris
34:47like I know this child is yours and I'm
34:50like and well cuz he kept saying he was
34:51just like I don't want to ruin anything
34:53we have this and this this and I'm like
34:55Chris like you need to not worry about
34:57me right now like what you need to worry
34:58about is your family I'm like all four
35:00of them and I kept saying that like all
35:03four of them I'm just like I know that's
35:04your child I'm like and that's okay I'm
35:06like you need to P all of your energy
35:08right now and focusing on finding them
35:11and not anywhere else you know and then
35:14he finally came clean and he was like
35:16yeah it's mine and I knew so of course
35:20you knew like you know come on how would
35:22you not know that your wife is like what
35:24is 15 weeks four months pregnant I mean
35:26seriously so but he so he told me and I
35:29just um I don't know I've never honest
35:33like I have never felt like he's lied to
35:36me I've always felt like he's been
35:37pretty upfront with me this entire time
35:40and then after that happened yesterday
35:43between him lying to me or coming pain
35:47about lying to me and then um his wife
35:51not coming home I was like you know what
35:54I wonder if there's more to this story
35:56than I know you know and it's really
35:58hard for me to process this because I
36:00think he's a really good guy and you
36:02know I'm worried about his wife kids
36:05like really worried about his white kid
36:08like I don't know where they are you
36:09don't know where they are nobody knows
36:11where they're at and it's just freaking
36:12me out because those little girls are
36:14like they're so
36:16little and she's pregnant you know and
36:20it's like where's their mom where are
36:22these babies and it just it makes me sad
36:24and and just this whole combination of
36:25like she's still not back
36:28and then him lying to me and I'm just
36:30like I don't I just felt like I needed
36:33to talk to you guys and tell you guys
36:35like I'm concerned I will help you in
36:37any way that you guys need help I
36:40just well that that may be something
36:43that we ask of you at some point um you
36:46know that there there obviously is
36:48things that you could that you could
36:49help with yeah I don't know how many
36:51people who he's comfortable speaking
36:53with but as you said in the beginning if
36:56you texted
36:59so that that may be something that we
37:01could do some help on you guys keep my
37:04name out of the newspap for while be
37:06nice yeah our report
37:09gets don't
37:13turn we'll have to see how this case
37:15goes I but do you do you can you now
37:19looking back you know knowing that he
37:21lied to you about his wife being
37:24pregnant is there anything else that you
37:26can think of that that you lied
37:30about that now jumps you to say wait a
37:33minute you told me this but maybe that's
37:35not
37:36true I mean not really I I still like I
37:39took everything he said to me in face
37:40value I try to do that for everybody in
37:42I mean unless you guys know something I
37:43don't know um but that's like the truth
37:48that I've been given so that's like what
37:50I know you know and I I I don't want to
37:52go back and like second guess like all
37:54of that because to me it seemed real
37:57it's still uh this whole this whole
37:59situation doesn't seem real but at the
38:02time it was just like I'm separating
38:03from her this is what's going on you
38:05know and he seemed like he was pretty
38:07proactive about you know like trying to
38:10get a new spot and like trying to get
38:12everything set
38:13[Music]
38:16up about that you know like I remember
38:19we were in talking about it I was like
38:21cuz I was like you going to get a
38:22two-bedroom or a three bedroom and he's
38:24like I wanted two I'm like why don't you
38:26get a three and then he BR can have a
38:28room and he's like I can't afford that
38:29and I was like all right and then he was
38:31like I'm going to do two bedroom and
38:33then I remember telling him like oh me
38:34and my sister had b b we little kids
38:36it's kind of cool they might like it he
38:39was just like all right you know so I
38:41was like kind of helping him with that I
38:42was like We'll go find something that'll
38:44be good and help you guys out and then I
38:46was like
38:48um uh I don't know I mean I just like I
38:51tried I really tried to like handle that
38:53whole relationship in the most like
38:55decent manner that I could I guess you
38:57could say
38:59so did did he ever talk to you about who
39:01his closest friends
39:05were I mean I know he has a few his
39:09buddy Mark out San Diego is a good
39:10friend to him and you know
39:13his just just I don't ask I have no
39:17reason to um and then uh bu ni that I
39:22know we Somewhere Over by me she guys
39:25probably already all these people um I
39:27there's a lot of people working on this
39:29sure there is
39:32um yeah I don't know that's about it I
39:36mean I'm sure he's offhandedly mentioned
39:37other people but nothing that
39:39like Sparks the memory just as far as
39:43you know that those are the the names of
39:45I would say that those are probably like
39:46his two closest buddies did he have a
39:48lot of
39:49friends male Andor female I think so I
39:52think there was like a lot of like
39:54couples that his wife on out I think so
39:58like parties and stuff
40:01kids way is he an outgoing guy or social
40:05or he's more in private type I would
40:07consider him to be an introvert I think
40:09around me he opened up a little bit more
40:11I think he just felt like he didn't like
40:12it's just it's kind of like a f
40:15relationship but probably because
40:16there's no like Str patched I don't know
40:18like I'm not going to judge him or I
40:19don't know if it was because I was like
40:21his little secret that he felt like he
40:23could trust me with stuff but I think he
40:25was like pretty open with me usually but
40:28I
40:33would and then about Hobbies or
40:36interests anything cars
40:40cars
40:42cars did the did the fitness thing would
40:45you consider that to be anything out of
40:46the ordinary you know some
40:48people are not shaped they start getting
40:51shape and come to obession no I don't
40:54think
40:55healthy phys that's exactly what it was
40:58I did not mean to cut you off sorry no
41:00it was healthy I think it was he was in
41:02a good spot and he was working out
41:03probably I don't know 5 days a week or
41:05so and I knew he ate pretty healthy and
41:08and uh I think he was happy with this
41:10Fitness level I wouldn't consider
41:12anything like overly by any means like
41:15most people I know who go to the gym
41:17live clean eating and work out four or
41:19five days a week pretty much like he was
41:20so nothing strange to me okay what about
41:24finances you ever mention any kind of
41:26financial diffic difficulty
41:28a little
41:29bit was that uh you know the strain of a
41:33marriage or spending too much money your
41:35credit card debt or what what think that
41:39he just said when they sold the house I
41:43said this is when he first started
41:46talking about getting a house up for
41:48sale I was like like moving into another
41:51house right away I was like car Market's
41:54pretty it's just like going to move
41:58apartment and save up some money I was
42:00like don't you have money in the house
42:12like had a meeting with the realtor the
42:14house was supposed to go up on Mond
42:15something to the effect of the house was
42:17pretty much supposed to go up for
42:20sale this past Monday
42:24this he specifically said the house
42:26would go for
42:27he said it was supposed to or I don't
42:29know if it was that it was going up for
42:30sale or that he was talking to the
42:32realtor but either way I don't remember
42:33exactly what it was was something the
42:34eff
42:36like
42:38everything start on Monday their
42:44whole yeah and he said that she was the
42:46one who found the
42:48real was there anything else that he
42:51said that was significant about one day
42:53you know were they was he going to move
42:54out she going to move out no nothing
42:56like that nothing like that at all it
42:58was just like we're going to sell the
43:00house and he said that they were both
43:01looking for spots and I was like where
43:04is she going to stay and he's like you
43:07know cuz I I wanted him to be in close
43:08proximity to f after they split so that
43:13he was always like like a quick drive to
43:15the kids you know I remember when I was
43:17young my dad and my mom Liv really far
43:19apart and like I still saw them both
43:21frequently but it was just like it was
43:23just kind of like a long drive for
43:24everybody and I think just being that
43:27close proximity it's like it's just good
43:29it's healthy for your kids and so I
43:31remember asking him like you know where
43:34she's going to stay and he's like
43:35probably somewhere around this area and
43:36he didn't give me anything exact and
43:37then I asked him again like recently CU
43:40he started getting more serious about of
43:42place he was like I think she's just
43:45going to stay in frck and I was like all
43:47right you know and then like one time
43:50that first time when I was like do you
43:52know where she's going to stay and he's
43:53like she's probably going to stay around
43:54here and I'm like is she going to stay
43:57in this house he's like she's G pull
43:59this out by herself I was like all right
44:01and that was the first time you told me
44:02like yeah we're going to pull it up
44:04first like once they could do that did
44:08he tell you what she does for little how
44:10she earns money kind of sort of I know
44:12she like works for some company that
44:15does like a lot of online stuff and it's
44:17like Fitness stuff or vitamin stuffff
44:20I'm not I don't completely know exactly
44:23what that is but I know she has to like
44:25netor with a lot of
44:28so so I'm not 100% sure what you call
44:32that which I guess she like a sales kind
44:36of that's what she got how about did you
44:41ever see him with any weapons never
44:43carry a knife or a gun or to talk about
44:46weapons of any kind no and in fact we
44:48even Mike so we talk about like Cent
44:50events like it's a big thing in my life
44:52I talk about Kents with all of my
44:54friends I asked him one day if you want
44:56I will send send you articles like I'll
44:58read the news and every like once a week
45:00or so I'll find an article that I think
45:01is interesting it's about all sorts of
45:03different stuff and I'll send it to one
45:04of my friends and I'll be like what do
45:06you think and we'll have like debates
45:08and discussions about it and I remember
45:11um there was going on a shooting that I
45:13sat him and I was like what do you think
45:15and he even told me he's like I don't
45:17want G house he like I think it's crazy
45:20we work in the oil industry and a lot of
45:22like they red r r people and they
45:28he was just talking me about it he was
45:29like I don't understand why some of
45:31these people insist on that like and I
45:34know he was referring to like the group
45:37that we like work around not necessarily
45:39our co-workers but just like oil fi
45:41people he's like I don't know why they
45:42insist of having like 10 weapons he's
45:45like why could you possibly need that
45:46any guns it doesn't even make sense to
45:47me he's like it's not necessary and then
45:50he's just like I keep guns in the house
45:54um so that actually did come up once but
45:56it was like
46:03complely you know if he was ever in
46:06the not that I know of he do you know
46:09where he's originally
46:11from you to talk about that uping and
46:15you know how that was any anything
46:17significant you remember about that
46:19anything traumatic
46:22anything
46:25jum his mom is a still married and he
46:30said he's really Clos to his dad his
46:32dad's really in the CL too so he said
46:35that they really relayed on that and
46:36said there just wasn't a lot of
46:38opportunity in North Carolina like for
46:40good jobs or anything around where he
46:42was
46:44at some friends some friends moved out
46:47here and him and her came and visited
46:49them and they just really liked it
46:51thought there was a lot better jobs
46:57right there good relationship with his
46:59family back yeah definitely
47:02definitely so I know he's got a sister
47:04and she's got two
47:09kids has a sister in North car as far as
47:13I know I know went to go
47:16Vis don't know
47:18she I think
47:21she did he talk about going back to
47:23North Carolina recently I know
47:29so you did you know uh who we went with
47:32uh he went by himself and met her out
47:34there I know she was already out there
47:39okay is there anything else you can
47:41think of that uh you think might be
47:45pertinent that might
47:46be looking into this not really I mean
47:50that's I told his name Dave told Dave
47:53like you know I think this is
47:54information I don't know if it can like
47:56like help you to solve anything but it's
47:59like I was a big part of his life
48:01recently so I just figured that you guys
48:02should be aware of it definitely you
48:05know and I will cooperate with you on
48:07anything that you can and he so I asked
48:09him yesterday so yeah we can add this in
48:12there
48:13um asked him yesterday to kind of like
48:16give me some space because I'm getting
48:17to the point with this situation where I
48:20am very concerned for his wife and
48:22children
48:25and this full
48:28situation I'm sure for everybody else
48:31with this situation and
48:34um after like finding out like oh yeah
48:37and like I've also got this child on the
48:40way with her and just wasn't very honest
48:42with me I told him please give me time
48:45to heal and please give me time to
48:47process this and he's like are we done
48:48are we done and I told him I said no
48:50we're not yes we are but he doesn't need
48:53to know that I just told him that
48:55because I was just like trying to find
48:57way to like distance myself from him
48:59without alerting him that I'm really
49:03uncomfortable with everything that's
49:04going on right now um you know I told
49:06him numerous times yesterday that I was
49:08scared and um you know I told him that I
49:12was scared not because of like for like
49:15my own safety but I told him like I'm
49:17scared because I don't know where she's
49:19at I'm scared because like I'm scared
49:22for them and then I told him you know
49:25the fact that you weren't honest with me
49:26like
49:27like I don't feel like I know you as
49:31well as I did and that you know that's
49:32uncomfortable for me too like this whole
49:34situation it's just it's scary it's it's
49:37not good so um I just asked him if he
49:41could give me some space and then I told
49:43him I was like when they find your
49:45family and they're all right I was like
49:47then you can go ahead and text me I was
49:48like but until then like I don't really
49:51think it's a good idea for me to talk to
49:52you and that's as far as I've got but I
49:54can tell you right now if I were to text
49:56him and just say whatever I needed to
49:58say
50:00good so I don't know and I even asked
50:02him a few times yesterday was like what
50:04happened like where's your familyes like
50:06I don't know like I don't know
50:12right when he says he doesn't know do
50:15you believe
50:16that I mean I think about this situation
50:19and honestly like I've never seen you be
50:22gentle and I see the way that he like he
50:25gets so happy when he talks about his
50:27kids and I just you know and the fact
50:29that he was like never ill mannered even
50:30when he discussing her and the fact that
50:32they were separating I always considered
50:34him to be a really decent man so the
50:36fact that they're still missing I
50:39mean I don't really think he would them
50:43I don't I mean and I think that's also a
50:45reason that it took me two days to come
50:47to you guys because it was like I think
50:49she left I mean and that's still in the
50:51back of my head is like a thought where
50:53it's like she took off and maybe she
50:59did
51:00said that obviously the financial
51:03situation wasn't that great like well
51:04maybe she just left
51:06because she didn't want to deal with it
51:08like if we're over like you can deal
51:10with it I don't know I mean I I just
51:13I've had so many different scenarios
51:15running through my head but I don't
51:17think and and he didn't indicate you
51:21that she was going to leave did he ever
51:23say to you like one day she's going to
51:25be leaving going to be going somewhere
51:28he told me they had a conversation in
51:29the morning and he told me that she she
51:34came home like really late I think that
51:36night and he told me that um when he
51:39woke up he was sleeping then she got
51:42back and when he woke up there was a
51:44text message from her that said I don't
51:47know if it was a text I don't know but
51:49she just said she asked him to wake her
51:51up before went to work and I guess he
51:55went to wake her up and she informed him
51:58that uh the child that she was carrying
52:01did not belong to him and I asked him if
52:05he believed that and he said no I think
52:07she's just saying that out of [ __ ] so I
52:09don't know if he's telling me that
52:10because he's trying to like somehow make
52:13him feel better that maybe it's not his
52:15kid cuz he lied to me or if that like
52:17legitimately happened I don't
52:19know um but he told me that and then I
52:22guess he said that she said that she was
52:25going to like go to some friend's house
52:27or something and I guess he tried to ask
52:28her about it a few times it wasn't
52:29really getting anything so I think he
52:31left um but I don't think it was P for
52:35or four days I think it was
52:37like I don't know I'm not really sure
52:41did he say that that discussion they had
52:43the morning if that was contentious
52:45there was any anything said threatening
52:49threatening or anything that was you
52:51know significant for that comp not
52:53really but I mean I'm sure finding out
52:55that the child that your wife is caring
52:58probably painful but no he didn't
53:01Express to me like they were arguing as
53:04far as I know they didn't even really
53:05like argue that much in the first place
53:06they just had different opinions on how
53:08to do stuff and just wasn't working on
53:11but just never like oh I fight with my
53:12life all time like that was never ever
53:15he ever brought up to me
53:17any do you think he had any reason to
53:20believe that the child wasn't I mean is
53:22there a possibility that she was seeing
53:23somebody I mean maybe she's at home all
53:26day right it would probably be pretty
53:28easy for her to have an there um I don't
53:32know nothing that he has mentioned prior
53:35to that yeah no he never said I think
53:38she's having an affair or she's spending
53:40too much time on so and so no not at all
53:42I don't even think you would notice I
53:44mean like realistically it's like no
53:47else knew about us and she's home all
53:51day so that frees up like that much for
53:53time so no but I mean he could have been
53:57unaware but I mean he even said I think
53:58she said it out of spite I I don't even
54:00think he took that whole situation
54:02seriously so and then he did he did
54:05admit to you that it wasn't that it was
54:06his child he believed it was his child
54:08later because I kept asking him I'm like
54:11he's like it's not mine and I was like
54:13how are you going to tell me that she
54:14just told you that she's having an
54:16affair and you tell me you don't believe
54:18that she's really having an affair but
54:20that the kid's not yours and I'm like it
54:22doesn't make sense to me
54:29[Music]
54:30and than him for tell me the truth
54:46I there's retire a mother two children
54:49one on the way so like 2 and a half that
54:53can't be found right now and it's like I
54:55don't care about anything that's going
54:56on with me and him I don't care about
54:58anything that's going on with him the
54:59media I don't care about any of that
55:01like all I care about is you
55:03[Music]
55:09[Music]
55:11guys one most of the stuff that I saw
55:14was like just a was like a short exit
55:17and then today I saw
55:20one you think that when they were
55:23interviewing him
55:26is that is that the guy you
55:31know so we don't know him but obviously
55:35you see somebody you see manner where
55:38they're talking did that do that strike
55:40you anyway I mean he's kind of got an
55:42introverted personality type so like
55:44he's kind of like laid back with things
55:46anyway I think I think I feel like he's
55:48like job with all of this like just I
55:51told you the night that I talked to him
55:53on the phone like on Monday night if he
55:56was calm but you be just hearing voice
55:58just like
56:00concern like I could hear
56:04it it's kind of similar like that but it
56:07was like like like you're trying to like
56:09hold back the tears kind of thing hold
56:12back just your out on
56:18theone you think he's kind of an even
56:21skill type of guy wild matter so he
56:24didn't he not high he's not one of these
56:27people who gets upset quickly or gets
56:29depressed quick you no I mean and he has
56:32moments of like happiness I mean of
56:34course I see him when he's like happy
56:35and things are going through well but
56:37just in general I think he's a pretty
56:39calm
56:43individual and and again this is just
56:46anything you want to say or anything you
56:48think do you what do you think Happ do
56:51you have any theories do you have any
56:53thoughts much is we I know
56:56I hate it I don't even like theorizing
56:58I'm like I
57:00don't I don't know I really
57:03hope what do I really think I'm hoping
57:05that they have a lot more Deb than he
57:07let on to I'm hoping she can deal with
57:09it and she wanted to legitimately start
57:10a new life
57:14she that's what
57:20I'm is there anything you want to
57:24ask good okay yeah I mean it's one of
57:28these things too is a lot of times what
57:29happens is after you have an interview
57:31like this you might start thinking you
57:32know if you ask me this question or I
57:34just thought of something feel pretty
57:36good call because usually you people
57:39think of something as fact you know
57:41spending less than an hour at the park
57:44um you might think you know what in July
57:46I remember he said this or I remember
57:48this happened you know in early August
57:50if any if any of that comes to your mind
57:53just uh just reach out and me a call and
57:55uh you know we appreciate any insight we
57:58don't know what happens we don't know I
58:00mean this could be you know a wide range
58:02of things at this point obviously our
58:04job is to figure out what happened and
58:06that's what we're going to do so um the
58:09quick we can get there though you know
58:11if there's a There's Hope right there's
58:13always hope that they're okay and we
58:15want to get them home safely and and
58:18it's possible there's a range of
58:19possibilities so our our our job is to
58:21try to resolve this as quickly as
58:23possible there's a whole bunch of us
58:25working on this and we will day and
58:27night until we resolve it so but in the
58:29meantime you're you're you're in a
58:32unique position I know that's
58:34why the babies man the babies that woman
58:38like that whole situation like that is
58:40I'm here because of those three and her
58:43unborn but I'm here for those three but
58:46I'm also here
58:47because I am aning position I really
58:50want well we appreciate that I think
58:52it's obvious I mean we we can sense you
58:55know anybody can sitting to your he that
58:57you do care and that and that yeah
58:59there's little there little girls
59:01babies and we all want to see them home
59:04safe so so again
59:08you in his life that
59:11is so there are certain things that you
59:14might say to you wouldn't say to
59:15somebody else or there might be
59:17something that you can find out about
59:19that somebody else nobody else could so
59:22we'll have to see how that goes and how
59:23see how the investigation progresses um
59:26so we may reach back out to you but for
59:29now just my main thing to be is if you
59:31hear from him and and you think you
59:33should tell us about it please call me
59:36if you think of something else that
59:38happen even if you think you know what
59:40it's really not that significant but
59:42maybe I should have mentioned it please
59:44call me and tell me because every little
59:46piece can help you know one of the
59:49things I'm not even sure that I asked
59:50you this may I did but is there any
59:53particular places that you guys ever
59:55went and put out he had a special place
59:58that he wanted to go with you to go for
1:00:00a walk or to go you know VI the sites or
1:00:03anything like that every place that we
1:00:05went was like my idea and I think all of
1:00:07it was special to him because I really
1:00:09take time to go to places that he would
1:00:10like but it was all stuff that I did
1:00:13every like dinner dinner like any any
1:00:16place we went like it was something that
1:00:18I did was like hey I know you would like
1:00:21this what do you think and he was always
1:00:23all about it but like going camping was
1:00:24my idea you know went out a couple other
1:00:26times my ideas like all of it my ideas
1:00:29all that so he just wanted to spend time
1:00:33I don't think he cared
1:00:34where question well if something jumps
1:00:37out if you think about a camping trip or
1:00:39something and something that was said or
1:00:41something that was somehow significant
1:00:43about that again you know feel free to
1:00:45give a call let me know uh because again
1:00:47we just don't know it's one of those
1:00:49things where somebody might actually a
1:00:51neighbor a coworker somebody might have
1:00:53a piece of information that makes the
1:00:55difference the case so and you may have
1:00:57that that piece of information we just
1:00:59don't know yet um obviously we're going
1:01:01to be interviewing everybody everybody
1:01:03from family friends co-workers you know
1:01:06right down the war so we got a lot of
1:01:09work to do but we really appreciate you
1:01:12reaching out
1:01:14and hopefully Mo it to the bottom of
1:01:17this quickly where's he at right now I
1:01:20don't know I know that he's been
1:01:22interviewed um in pred uh by the police
1:01:25police there and he's probably going to
1:01:28be interviewed again maybe multiple
1:01:30times um and family members as well I
1:01:34think that he had some friends he was
1:01:35going to stay with um that they wanted
1:01:37to you know we wanted to look at the
1:01:40house so he I don't know even know if
1:01:42he's gone back to the house or if he's
1:01:43with friends I I
1:01:47don't but he may reach out to you I mean
1:01:49it's one of these things in in a
1:01:51situation like this you tend to reach
1:01:53out to the people who are closest to you
1:01:55um
1:01:56and and want to you know want to talk
1:01:58about
1:02:01things if
1:02:03he obviously you would like to know
1:02:06anything and everything that he says
1:02:08because again they tell you something
1:02:10that he's not telling us and also even
1:02:13something that may seem obvious to you
1:02:15if he told us something opposite it's
1:02:18important so if he said I'm staying at
1:02:21Joe's house and he tells you he's
1:02:23staying at Chris's house or Bob's house
1:02:25or whatever
1:02:26and that's not true well then that could
1:02:28be significant you know if he tells you
1:02:30that he went someplace and he didn't go
1:02:33there that could be significant so even
1:02:36though you if if you do have contact
1:02:38with them and you think it's just a
1:02:39normal conversation there could be
1:02:42something that's sign about
1:02:45that uh not yet not yet that's one of
1:02:48those things that right right and we're
1:02:51not going to ask you to do that at this
1:02:52point I mean we have a lot of
1:02:53investigative Avenues we have a lot of
1:02:55things that we can do I know this is
1:02:57difficult for you and I don't want to
1:02:58make anything uh more stressful than it
1:03:01already is so right now I would just say
1:03:03sit tight the most valuable thing you
1:03:05could do is just think of anything else
1:03:08that might be useful and let us know and
1:03:11then if he contact you I I would say
1:03:15it's okay to hear what he has to say and
1:03:17if you can know what that is that be
1:03:19very
1:03:20helpful you know one of these things
1:03:22is if something if something happen that
1:03:26shouldn't have happened then there's
1:03:27usually a mistake right there's usually
1:03:29something that's said or something
1:03:31that's done that that comes out so even
1:03:34things complely
1:03:40inting separating I'm just curious like
1:03:43I just want to know now because it's
1:03:44like I've been living this whole thing
1:03:46and I'm like was it a lie I don't know
1:03:49like when I found out that she had a
1:03:50baby on the way I was
1:03:52like it just it made me like
1:03:56I well so I can tell you this Phil and I
1:03:59have not talked I haven't even seen him
1:04:01other
1:04:03than is so I don't know specifics we
1:04:07probably have 50 people I would guess is
1:04:09that accurate working on this right now
1:04:11okay and it may it may want to be
1:04:13hundreds of different people by the
1:04:15today so there're different different
1:04:18investigators doing different things so
1:04:20I don't necessarily know what's going on
1:04:23with him and our focus is just to check
1:04:26all the boxes as quick as possible so we
1:04:28can get all facts so I don't know the I
1:04:31don't know if he was really
1:04:33getting separate really sell the house
1:04:36don't
1:04:37answ we'll find out find out
1:04:41soon and actually good point do you have
1:04:44any other questions for us is there
1:04:46anything sad I'm sad about situation
1:04:50want them to all three of them like
1:04:53alive and happy and well and
1:04:56everything
1:04:59just everybody to go
1:05:02home well we greatly appreciate it I
1:05:05would say thank you very much hang in
1:05:07there I know this isn't easy this is a
1:05:09difficult situation so hang in there if
1:05:12I hear anything I will reach out to you
1:05:14okay I just I don't know how quickly
1:05:16that's going to happen in the meantime
1:05:18again feel free to reach out and um and
1:05:22if you feel like taking a phone call you
1:05:24take a phone call it's a text message
1:05:26you can you can do that that's up to you
1:05:28I'm not going to direct you at this time
1:05:30uh to do anything but if if it comes to
1:05:32that we think that that might be
1:05:35helpful just me I would say
1:05:38texting because it's in writing and you
1:05:41don't have to get
1:05:43personal but that's just me I mean I
1:05:46asked him to leave me alone he's pretty
1:05:48respectful of the things that I have to
1:05:49say to him so I think it's pretty hard
1:05:52for him to have me not talking to him so
1:05:54at some point
1:05:56if he C and he did try to talk to me it
1:05:59wouldn't surprise me but if he also
1:06:00respected what I had to say and like
1:06:03space I think he would respect that too
1:06:06I mean I told him numerous times that
1:06:08day that I was scared so I
1:06:10don't you
1:06:12know like I'm concerned for your family
1:06:14so I don't know I don't know how
1:06:19he but we we'll see as it you know as
1:06:22the time goes on um but uh but that
1:06:27that's it for now and again we we'll
1:06:28reach back out to you if need one thing
1:06:30actually I did want to ask phone again
1:06:33the text messages between
1:06:35you yeah that was yesterday as soon as I
1:06:38found out and he was honest with me like
1:06:41we talked a couple more times after that
1:06:43and I was just like I don't want you to
1:06:44contact me and I just wiped them out if
1:06:47if if that's something that became
1:06:49necessary for us to try to retrieve is
1:06:52that something that would be okay with
1:06:53you uh I'm sure we could work on phone
1:06:56records but I use that phone for work so
1:06:58I'd appreciate it if I could like keep
1:06:59this is there another way for you guys
1:07:00to go about doing that like through the
1:07:02phone company so there's special
1:07:05software we can plug your phone into and
1:07:07even if it's uh deleted we can still
1:07:08retrieve the contact content rather um
1:07:12and then just you know preserve that and
1:07:13get the phone back that's of course
1:07:15actually so you're not going to like
1:07:17take it from me though right CU I just
1:07:19need it for yeah no no no we not we
1:07:21don't need to like pick your phone and
1:07:23then you don't get it back I mean there
1:07:24is a process of about getting the
1:07:26information from the phone but we have
1:07:28people who do that and it wouldn't be a
1:07:31big intrusion but it just you think
1:07:34about this too right because you
1:07:39think you know what that M that he wrote
1:07:42you know that was a Str maybe
1:07:47we but for now I don't know that it's
1:07:50necessary but if it becomes necessary we
1:07:52may come back to the and say hey just
1:07:54got to look you know and we' like to
1:07:56retrieve those text messages and again
1:07:59may not even be the contact may just be
1:08:00the time and location right so well I
1:08:02mean as long as you guys would give it
1:08:04back I mean that's my thing I I just for
1:08:06work I don't even pay for it in a dark
1:08:08so I can't really just like not have
1:08:10that would be a problem did he have a
1:08:11work phone and a personal phone yeah do
1:08:14you have numbers for both uh I look up
1:08:17his number on my
1:08:22like thing for did he contact you on
1:08:25both
1:08:26the first couple times that we talked
1:08:27for like a few days it was on his work
1:08:29phone but then it shoed to his personal
1:08:31phone so it's like I don't want any
1:08:34personal
1:08:35conversation on the work phone cuz we're
1:08:38pretty separated at work and I'm trying
1:08:40to keep it that way at work right I
1:08:42don't think anybody at work even talk
1:08:45like we're not affiliated with each
1:08:48other yeah if we could get the both
1:08:50numbers that would be great just to make
1:08:52sure that we have
1:08:53them I don't know
1:08:56that I think there's like a directory in
1:08:59here somewhere on my
1:09:01thing you smash
1:09:04it one of those broken screen screen
1:09:07savers
1:09:38no that's not good that's mine all it
1:09:41did was connect his I don't know what it
1:09:44is okay I'm sure you could get it you
1:09:47have his personal cell phone yes that's
1:09:49what saved in my phone I don't have his
1:09:51work phone saved in my phone I was
1:09:52hoping that I could look it up on my
1:09:54work directory cuz
1:09:56my my email I think but well that's
1:09:59actually can can we get that from just a
1:10:01personal number I'm sure we have it
1:10:02already but can we just get that and
1:10:04then the work we'll get that from
1:10:07work
1:10:10yeah
1:10:12910
1:10:14309
1:10:16172 okay that's the number that we okay
1:10:19and then one more question as far as I
1:10:21know you w't doing the social media but
1:10:23did you have an email address that you
1:10:25guys in contact noil I think we had like
1:10:28one email but it wasn't like us talking
1:10:31it was like I was trying to help
1:10:34equipment that I operate and they use
1:10:36the field like a gas monitor kind of
1:10:39thing so it's just that it's like a bck
1:10:42off but like pretty much everything that
1:10:45we've had has been like on his personal
1:10:48like I said I like 20 mail I don't
1:10:52remember exactly what it something was
1:10:54wrong with as all so I think he came me
1:10:57about that and then
1:11:00um I think we we talked a few times on I
1:11:03to work on and it was like know cuz at
1:11:06that point it was still professional but
1:11:08I kind of knew that it was like getting
1:11:10to the point where was going to be a
1:11:12personal thing and I was like we
1:11:14should that's not fair to me and this is
1:11:17like my work Pony on my home phone but
1:11:18it's mine so
1:11:22I yeah so I mean any correspondence
1:11:26[Music]
1:11:30and actually I don't know I asked in the
1:11:32beginning because I don't I just I your
1:11:34full name I know it's Mickey but is it
1:11:37well we we came right down what you
1:11:39called kessinger yes and I H yes and
1:11:44then you
1:11:50did that's
1:11:52it else I think I just you everything
1:11:55that was on my mind so okay so I did a
1:11:58good job asking you lots of questions
1:12:00hopefully hopefully I gave you something
1:12:02thater because of the
1:12:05babies we don't know them but there's
1:12:08somebody out there as long as they safe
1:12:09we're cool with yeah you know and that's
1:12:13the main reason we get involved anytime
1:12:14there's a missing kid in local agencies
1:12:17can reach out to us for additional
1:12:18Manpower essentially so I always want to
1:12:21get that resolved as quickly as possible
1:12:23absolutely yeah that's the key and I can
1:12:25tell you this we're doing everything it
1:12:26takes so the more cles the faster it
1:12:28gets hopefully that's exactly right we
1:12:34get no I think your your information is
1:12:37very helpful he also gives us a lot of
1:12:39insight too which is helpful
1:12:44investigation so you guys with the local
1:12:46or with the feds we're feds we're both
1:12:49just helping out with that's a small
1:12:53yeah fredi's a smaller PD and uh you
1:12:55know a case like this requires a lot of
1:12:57Manpower yeah I used to do water
1:12:59treatment PLS up there in eie and oh all
1:13:03of those and man they there would just
1:13:06there's not enough lot going on in those
1:13:09towns you know those it's not
1:13:10overcrowded no traffic no I mean it's a
1:13:13lot there more quiet people it's a lot
1:13:16smoother way of life so I couldn't
1:13:19imagine that they would have
1:13:2150 it's just a one detective and a few
1:13:24Patrol officers
1:13:26that's and that's one of the ways that
1:13:28we can help just because we have a lot
1:13:29of people resources good it's good to
1:13:32know yeah all righty well I'm sorry
1:13:35about the mosquito bites as well I know
1:13:38I've like they're fine and you and
1:13:48I spiled
1:13:57suar that's what I
1:13:59I pepper
1:14:30[Music]
1:15:04yeah off
1:15:50know espe sure
1:16:08great
1:16:44yeah it
1:16:50is monsters probably aren't cold anymore
1:16:55hang on a second
1:17:00yep that Max button time is
1:17:063:26 can you speak up just a little bit
1:17:08so the recorder I know you're tired and
1:17:10you're stressed um and we won't be here
1:17:12any longer than we have to be you've
1:17:14already had a conversation with people
1:17:16before you came here on your own free
1:17:18will to talk to us we picked you up at
1:17:21your request and brought you here um you
1:17:23can get up and leave it any time you
1:17:25don't have to talk to us if there's a
1:17:27question you don't want to answer don't
1:17:28answer it if you don't want to talk
1:17:30anymore just tell me I want to I tell me
1:17:32I want to leave and I'm kind of in the
1:17:35way of the door but you're not being uh
1:17:38you're not being uh interrogated as a
1:17:40criminal suspect we're here to
1:17:42understand uh your relationship with
1:17:45Chris and what you know about Chris and
1:17:47his family and uh events relating to
1:17:51Chris Watts um and do you know as Chris
1:17:54or Christopher either one okay um
1:17:58so the phone number that you reached him
1:18:01on can you tell me what that number
1:18:03was I think I deleted that out of my
1:18:06phone too I just like cut him out of my
1:18:09life it's a 910 number you guys have
1:18:13it we gave it to Mark yesterday I I
1:18:18probably have it but just in case I
1:18:20don't have it any if I recited it to you
1:18:22would you know it just the first three
1:18:25numbers okay but you know it as a 910
1:18:28number yes that's what I do know I I
1:18:30mean that's what I've got more Carolina
1:18:33or something North Carol okay so let's
1:18:36just start with like a timeline of
1:18:40your um getting to know Chris how you
1:18:44guys met where you met all those things
1:18:46let's just run and I I'm not going to
1:18:48ask you specific questions I think it's
1:18:50necessary I'll let you just tell me your
1:18:52story I think it's a little bit easier
1:18:54that way so I just want to know how you
1:18:55met him where you met him how long you
1:18:57guys were dating uh and those kind of
1:18:59things
1:19:00initially okay um I think I met him
1:19:04sometime in June probably early June it
1:19:06might have been may it was just talking
1:19:08at work was pretty casual
1:19:12um and uh he didn't have a wedding ring
1:19:15on his finger and every time I talked to
1:19:18him he didn't tell me that he was in a
1:19:20relationship he didn't even mention his
1:19:22kids right away
1:19:23either um um and then one day he told me
1:19:26that he had two kids I was like that's
1:19:29pretty cool and started telling me about
1:19:31his kids that sounded like a sarcastic
1:19:33com no I thought it was kind of cute I
1:19:35was like oh he's a dad it was like right
1:19:37around Father's day too so whatever that
1:19:40is is in
1:19:41June yeah I'm not good with holidays he
1:19:44told me he had kids and then it was
1:19:46Father's Day shortly after that so
1:19:48that's what I do now and I was like I
1:19:49know I thought it was cute and then um
1:19:52he's tell me about him he's pretty
1:19:53excited about him and then
1:19:56um he mentioned that he did have a
1:19:59significant other and then he told me
1:20:02that those two were in the process of a
1:20:06separation did he mention the children's
1:20:09name or his significant other's name um
1:20:12I didn't know his significant other's
1:20:14name for a while and then I think he
1:20:17told me his kid's names pretty quick but
1:20:20to be honest with you on an exact date
1:20:22of when that happened I don't know
1:20:25so in May and June first of all where do
1:20:28you work I work at in Darko petroleum
1:20:31Corporation I'm contracted to in Darko
1:20:33petroleum Corporation okay and you work
1:20:35out of an office setting Where in
1:20:38flatville Colorado okay and Chris also
1:20:41works out of that location per se yes
1:20:44he's in the field but he comes into the
1:20:46office with his team so you work uh what
1:20:49is your job responsibility uh I do
1:20:51healthy health safy and an environment
1:20:55okay so you work in the office and you
1:20:57take care of health safety for Ana Darko
1:20:59is an oil and gas company right yes so
1:21:02you're doing health safety in the office
1:21:04and Chris works in the field yes as a
1:21:07what what kind of job does he do he's an
1:21:09operator so I don't know like all of his
1:21:11daily duties but he's a field operator
1:21:14so he works with like the oil wells so
1:21:17he goes out and does work on those
1:21:20whatever yes um that work might be but
1:21:23he comes into the office frequent in the
1:21:25mornings his team meets in the mornings
1:21:27they don't they're not all in there
1:21:28every day some days some of them are in
1:21:30there some days other ones are in there
1:21:32but in the mornings typically from like
1:21:366:15 to probably 7 somewhere around
1:21:38there and is that where you met Chris
1:21:40yes okay so can you just take us through
1:21:44kind of a little bit of a the early part
1:21:47of how you guys how he cted you or you
1:21:49courted him I don't know which one
1:21:51happened um how you guys got to know
1:21:53each other um I guess we just started
1:21:55talking he actually um so part of my job
1:21:59is to manage the gas monitors that we
1:22:01have so anarco requires all their field
1:22:04Personnel to carry like uh gas monitor
1:22:06sensors for toxic gases and it's my job
1:22:09to control all the inventory any issues
1:22:11anything like that um and we were having
1:22:14some pretty serious like equipment
1:22:16issues and we had numerous amounts of
1:22:20people coming in my office one day and
1:22:22he happened to be one of them
1:22:25um and I'd seen him before like they
1:22:27meet in the in the lunchroom and that's
1:22:30where I go put my lunch in the fridge so
1:22:31I'd seen him but I didn't ever like talk
1:22:35to him um so that day we just started
1:22:37talking and then every time I saw him in
1:22:39the hallway after that and it was always
1:22:41hit or miss like it wasn't an everyday
1:22:42thing it was just when I saw him we just
1:22:44started talking and we just kind of had
1:22:46a lot in common and just hit it off so
1:22:48we'd always have you know pretty good
1:22:50conversations and then I don't know one
1:22:53day he just he he told me that he had
1:22:55kids and started talking about his kids
1:22:57and then mentioned yes that I have a
1:23:00wife but we're getting separated said
1:23:03okay and then when do you think that was
1:23:05when he said all that so specifically
1:23:08when he told you he was getting
1:23:09separated from his wife was that within
1:23:12the first couple weeks that you knew him
1:23:14or was that later on you said you met
1:23:17him around May or June yeah it was still
1:23:19in June okay it would have been before
1:23:22Father's Day so had you guys ever gone
1:23:24out on any kind of date at that time you
1:23:26just conversing at work yeah that's all
1:23:29it was and then
1:23:32um I don't know we started hanging out
1:23:35we hung out we went to went to a park
1:23:38hung out at a park let's go back real
1:23:40quick so he tell why did he tell you
1:23:41that he was getting a divorce did he ask
1:23:43you out at that time no he didn't I
1:23:45think he was probably interested in me
1:23:48and so um he talked to me a couple times
1:23:53uh via his work phone and I was like uh
1:23:57no like it was still very like friendly
1:23:59conversation but then when I realized
1:24:01like this man is interested in me I'm
1:24:04interested in him this is personal so we
1:24:07got away from di Darko thing because I
1:24:09really don't want those guys affiliated
1:24:11with any of this and so you have a work
1:24:13phone that's specifically no I have one
1:24:16phone that I do both on he has two
1:24:19phones okay so he had your phone the
1:24:2272065
1:24:24number that I roll with all the time
1:24:26okay so he has two phones one of those
1:24:29owned by Anna Darko and one personal yes
1:24:31sir do you know what his anad Darko
1:24:33phone number was it's been so long and I
1:24:36mean I'm sure I could like look it up
1:24:37but I tried to look it up for those guys
1:24:39yesterday and I couldn't find it okay um
1:24:41we can find it that's okay just
1:24:43wondering if you knew it um but at that
1:24:46point we just like took it to his phone
1:24:48cuz I just felt it was like better that
1:24:51way um and we just continue to talk and
1:24:54then um let me go back to the park where
1:24:56is the park it's like down the street
1:24:58from my house it's called East Lake
1:25:00number three you're your house in
1:25:03Northland yes and that was in the June
1:25:05time frame I yeah like the beginning of
1:25:09July it was like right around my
1:25:10birthday it's like so sometime at the
1:25:12very end of June or the beginning of
1:25:13July okay and that's the first meeting
1:25:16you had outside of work
1:25:18yeah
1:25:21um basic conversation for a first date I
1:25:24mean we kept it pretty simple I guess
1:25:27you know um I don't even remember
1:25:29everything we talked about we were there
1:25:31for a few
1:25:32hours
1:25:34um understand my so if if I ask about
1:25:38conversation what I'm looking for was he
1:25:39talking about his family during any of
1:25:43these meetings those are the kind of I
1:25:45understand every you know whatever you
1:25:48guys were talking about relationship
1:25:50your life your interest those things
1:25:52that we don't need to know that what I'm
1:25:53interested in is knowing is when he
1:25:56brings up his children when he brings up
1:25:57his wife when he brings up financial
1:26:01information when he brings up his home
1:26:04when he brings up anything that may have
1:26:06been and and it's been a few days so
1:26:08you've had a chance to reflect on um
1:26:11some articles that you may have read and
1:26:13you know unfortunately that you're in a
1:26:16situation where somebody has been
1:26:19murdered and that information when you
1:26:22look backwards um in your memory with
1:26:25the conversations with Chris anything
1:26:27that he might have said that would be
1:26:29relative to debt and I'm not just you
1:26:32know even if he one day he was mad and
1:26:34he said I want to do this or do that um
1:26:36you know anything like that if he ever
1:26:38made any kind of statements that you
1:26:39were like whoa that was weird um or why
1:26:42would he say that or why did he mention
1:26:43that do you understand what I'm I'm
1:26:45looking for no I completely understand I
1:26:46just feel like some of this happen so
1:26:48long ago that I can't tell you like the
1:26:52exact words of the ex exact conversation
1:26:55at the exact time and place because it's
1:26:57like we had a lot of conversations I
1:26:59mean we talked every single day so it's
1:27:02like I'm trying to help you guys with
1:27:03the stuff like the stuff that's more
1:27:05current I can give you guys a lot more
1:27:07like detail and exact times when you're
1:27:09asking me about something that happened
1:27:116 weeks ago and exactly what was said
1:27:13it's like I mean I'm sure I can give you
1:27:15a general idea but to be honest with you
1:27:17like to pinpoint exact words it's not
1:27:19going to happen I'm not looking for
1:27:21exact words um just more uh let's say
1:27:25six weeks ago he said something that
1:27:27triggered with you last night um that's
1:27:30what I'd be looking for or something
1:27:32four weeks ago and if you don't remember
1:27:34where it was or the specific words that
1:27:37doesn't matter just he said something
1:27:38that was off the wall or he said this or
1:27:41he said that that has caused you a
1:27:43moment to pause and you go wow I wonder
1:27:45why you said that now knowing what you
1:27:47know today do you understand where where
1:27:49I'm going with that I completely
1:27:51understand and to be honest with you I
1:27:52mean there were several discussions that
1:27:54we had about his current relationship
1:27:58and where it had gone and what it had
1:27:59caused um and he talked about his kids
1:28:02from time to time but the thing was is
1:28:04he was never hostile it was never
1:28:07anything aggressive like even when he
1:28:09spoke of his wife and the fact that they
1:28:12were separating it was never like ill it
1:28:15was it was very it was still very kind
1:28:18it was just like this is not working you
1:28:20know and would explain why but it wasn't
1:28:23anything out of the ordinary or anything
1:28:25that I think would scare me and to this
1:28:27day even after everything that I found
1:28:30out I still look back at that and I
1:28:32don't see any red lights
1:28:35with the way that he spoke of his
1:28:39family can you just describe his overall
1:28:42demeanor over the eight 10 12 weeks that
1:28:45you guys knew each other it wasn't that
1:28:46long it was like six weeks we were
1:28:49hanging out I guess we knew each other
1:28:51longer okay but you met him in the
1:28:53office and just his overall Persona who
1:28:56was was he aggressive was he mellow was
1:28:59he calm was he outspoken what who was
1:29:02Chris he I you know I think he's an
1:29:05introvert I would consider him to be
1:29:06like a
1:29:08pretty I don't want to say he's a very
1:29:10reserved individual I think he's
1:29:12probably more reserved around other
1:29:14people I think he emphasized to me that
1:29:17one of the reasons that he really
1:29:18enjoyed talking to me is because if he
1:29:21felt like he could get out of his shell
1:29:24said around most people he just like
1:29:26didn't really feel the the need to to
1:29:29like talk and Converse and it wasn't
1:29:31just in his home life just in general it
1:29:34wasn't something where he he's an
1:29:35introvert and he said with him with me
1:29:38it made him feel like he could really
1:29:40just start talking about things that
1:29:43excited him and I think a lot of that
1:29:44had to do with the fact that we had
1:29:45things in common
1:29:48um so with me I think he was a little
1:29:51bit more outgoing but even then I would
1:29:53still consider him to be an introvert I
1:29:56mean not on the extreme end if an
1:29:58introvert went to like 1 to 10 I'd put
1:30:00him at like a four five so on the
1:30:03lighter side of in pretty even cued yes
1:30:06like really relaxed like all time he was
1:30:08never really like worked up about
1:30:10anything
1:30:11just mellow easy going guy very much
1:30:15okay and he was that way with you did
1:30:18you ever did he ever have any kind of uh
1:30:21did you guys ever have arguments I mean
1:30:23pretty short relationship no arguments
1:30:25during that time did he ever lose his
1:30:27temper at any time you guys never had a
1:30:29yelling match no so you never saw him
1:30:33upset or mad no and there was a couple
1:30:35times that we had some disagreements on
1:30:37things that as we like further progress
1:30:39into this story you know but it was
1:30:41never like I am very calm when I talk to
1:30:43people it's like extremely rational when
1:30:45I handle situations that there's a
1:30:47disagreement in and he always was the
1:30:49exact same way like always like I never
1:30:52stressed anything I I think one thing
1:30:55that actually kind of Drew me to him was
1:30:56the fact that he was like very open with
1:30:58communicating with me if there were any
1:31:00like differences on how we saw things or
1:31:03or just like open-minded about things it
1:31:06was it was actually I I personally
1:31:07thought it was kind of unique because
1:31:09usually most of the men that I've ever
1:31:11met are typically very closed off and I
1:31:13didn't get that from him at all but it
1:31:16was always like kind very kind so no
1:31:20sense that this guy had a temper or not
1:31:24at wasn't was aggressive or he never
1:31:27lost his mind and yelled and said crazy
1:31:30stuff or anything like that
1:31:33okay so can we just kind of go back to
1:31:35your relationship you say you guys had a
1:31:37lot in common what what was that oh I
1:31:40mean like we're both really into fitness
1:31:42I think that's important it's a
1:31:43lifestyle um both of us ate pretty
1:31:45healthy so I think that was important as
1:31:47well um he's like a total Gear Head he
1:31:51likes cars a lot and I don't know nearly
1:31:53as much about but it's always been
1:31:55something that I've been pretty
1:31:56interested in so we definitely talk
1:31:58about stuff like that
1:32:00um and I guess he was always willing to
1:32:03like learn new stuff and vice versa like
1:32:05I like to travel a lot it's not
1:32:07something that he's done a lot but he
1:32:08seemed like really interested in what I
1:32:10had to share with him and vice versa so
1:32:13even if it wasn't something that we
1:32:14originally had in common together it was
1:32:15just like hey I respect what you have to
1:32:17say and vice versa so you
1:32:20guys ying and yang and got along pretty
1:32:24well very well and no time he never gave
1:32:29you any indication that none that he was
1:32:33having issues um so when during your
1:32:37guys dating time did you guys spend most
1:32:40of the time at your place always okay
1:32:42always at your place I told well or we'd
1:32:45go out but um I told Mark yesterday he
1:32:49asked me if I went over there and I told
1:32:51him about one time that I went over to
1:32:52that house I've been to that house twice
1:32:54but it was very very brief and it was
1:32:56not like an Extended Stay I did not feel
1:32:59comfortable there or like I just didn't
1:33:02want to be there it's not my life like
1:33:03that is somebody else's life and
1:33:05somebody else's existence and I respect
1:33:07that that's their space and so I used to
1:33:09tell him we come to my house because
1:33:11this is like this is our space this is
1:33:13my space and so for me out of respect
1:33:16just for like whatever situation he had
1:33:19going on and the fact that it's not my
1:33:20home um I felt that it was better to to
1:33:23be my place and I I live alone I don't
1:33:25have any roommates or anything so it's
1:33:26pretty easy to do that so during June
1:33:28and July did you were you aware that he
1:33:32uh his family was not his did you meet
1:33:34his children nope June ju and he didn't
1:33:37ask me to okay I mean not that I didn't
1:33:40want to ever it was just not now it's
1:33:43like you're not finalized with your
1:33:46separation and not only that we've
1:33:49barely been dating like you can't
1:33:51introduce kids to somebody new and
1:33:53situation like that that's something
1:33:55that takes time I mean would I have
1:33:57liked to have met them of course they
1:34:00you know I mean that would have been a
1:34:03great honor for me to have somebody
1:34:04introduce their children into my life
1:34:06you know and and but not then it was
1:34:09something that it was like okay well
1:34:11let's see where we're at in 6 months
1:34:12let's see we're at in a year and if
1:34:13we're still doing this and you and me
1:34:14are still you know happy with where
1:34:17we're at and you think that this is
1:34:19something that is going to be long term
1:34:20and is worth bringing your children into
1:34:22the picture then yes I would love to
1:34:24meet them but it's like not right now
1:34:26you are still in this situation where
1:34:28you're not even completely out of it and
1:34:31I'm getting in it and that's not fair
1:34:33for them and that was kind of the policy
1:34:35that I had with him was it was just like
1:34:37yes but not yet so did he asked to
1:34:40introduce you to his children not at
1:34:42that time I think both and him and I
1:34:43were on the same page of eventually if
1:34:48things went as they should have
1:34:51understand you guys relationship is very
1:34:53new young yeah
1:34:56so although it was short I just laying
1:35:00everything out helps us understand what
1:35:03actually was going on with him and some
1:35:05we may I might ask you a question and
1:35:07you're going why the heck would you ask
1:35:08me that probably because I have
1:35:09information that I'm not willing to
1:35:11share with you and I'll tell you that
1:35:12right now I'm not going to tell you some
1:35:13questions I'm G to ask you what the heck
1:35:16I I want to share some information with
1:35:17you just it protects you it protects our
1:35:19investigation so if it seems weird
1:35:21there's a reason I'm asking it and it's
1:35:23usually relative to what I know um so
1:35:26don't don't take offense to it again
1:35:28it's just part of what we need to know
1:35:31um understood so just you went to his
1:35:34house on two occasions yes was that
1:35:36recent no that was like pretty early
1:35:39into it and I did not like it and did
1:35:41not want to go back do you recall where
1:35:43the house was yeah it's like right off
1:35:45the highway in Frederick okay and you
1:35:48know the streets I mean I'm sure I could
1:35:51figure it out again if I like really had
1:35:53to to like off top of my head no did you
1:35:55know the street name no I would have to
1:35:57like drive around in there to get there
1:36:00okay um did it look like anybody else
1:36:02lived at that house at that time oh
1:36:04definitely I mean that freaked you out I
1:36:07mean he told me that he was living in
1:36:09the basement um and he said we're
1:36:12separated but we're not
1:36:13divorced and we're going to get ready to
1:36:16sell the house and that was the
1:36:17impression that I was under and I was
1:36:19under the impression that they were
1:36:20taking everything pretty slow with this
1:36:21with like getting ready to sell the
1:36:22house I mean those are big things so
1:36:25that's what I was informed and I mean if
1:36:26you think about it this whole thing
1:36:28happened in a six week stretch like
1:36:29that's not really that much of a time
1:36:32frame so in that sense like it's
1:36:36believable to me um yes I went I went to
1:36:40the house and um the first time I was
1:36:43there
1:36:45um I hung out in there like front living
1:36:48room I just sat on the floor and it was
1:36:50on the 4th of July it was the morning of
1:36:52the 4th and I was helping him
1:36:55uh to set up my fitness pal app and like
1:36:59track his food his calories and stuff
1:37:01because he does pretty good with the
1:37:02working out and stuff and he asked me
1:37:03he's like can you help me just like get
1:37:05this dialed in he like yeah I can do
1:37:07that so that he invited me up to the
1:37:09house and I was already kind of hesitant
1:37:10to do it cuz I was like there are other
1:37:12people that live here and I just felt
1:37:14like it was an invasion of space and so
1:37:16I went up there and we just stayed in
1:37:18that front room and I helped him out
1:37:20with that um and got him all set up with
1:37:23that that and then uh oh he asked me if
1:37:26I wanted lunch and he grilled chicken
1:37:28and carrots chicken and carrots and then
1:37:31uh that's all he had and I was like okay
1:37:33so we uh so we ate and then I left and
1:37:37then there was another day
1:37:40about I can give you the date is let me
1:37:44look at a
1:37:45calendar think it was the weekend after
1:37:48my
1:37:50birthday U just a thing on the courtesy
1:37:53the phone for what was that guy's name
1:37:56Don this gentleman oh th P I just met
1:38:00him
1:38:01today do you want to do the pH I forgot
1:38:03about that for
1:38:05tpd it's not for them they're doing it
1:38:07for us we just didn't we don't have the
1:38:09equipment with us to do it and I asked
1:38:11them to do it for us they're not
1:38:13involved in this investigation he would
1:38:15just be a uh computer person he would
1:38:18not be looking at any of this stuff that
1:38:20would fall to myself so keep that in
1:38:24mind he's not involved in this
1:38:25investigation thoron PD has nothing to
1:38:27do with this other than letting us use
1:38:29their facility and um helping us with
1:38:31some electronic download he's not going
1:38:33to look at your phone right now he's
1:38:35going to put it on a disc and they're
1:38:36going to give it to me
1:38:39gotcha what do you
1:38:41think I really want to help you guys I
1:38:43do I feel like I'm I'm this whole thing
1:38:46is just going to be crazy regardless of
1:38:48whether I give you my phone or not I
1:38:50mean that's kind of how I look at it
1:38:53like it's happening it's going to happen
1:38:56well the text reiterate what you've been
1:38:58saying all along so it's not like well
1:39:00they do that's the other thing too I
1:39:01mean that's kind of a good backup yeah
1:39:03I'll I think you hit the nail right on
1:39:06the head there's reasons why we want
1:39:08everything um it validates things that
1:39:11we
1:39:12know I'm not going to come out and tell
1:39:14you that I if you tell me something
1:39:16today we'll validate it with your text
1:39:18messages whether it's the ones we have
1:39:20now or the ones you're going to give us
1:39:22certainly if you
1:39:23go get him I was I want you to read this
1:39:26is what I want you to do before you
1:39:28decide that okay um so the second time I
1:39:31went to that house I'm not sure what day
1:39:33it was but it was the weekend of the
1:39:3814th um of August July
1:39:43July I don't know if it was 14th or the
1:39:4615th um one of those two days but we had
1:39:49went out and we stopped there just real
1:39:51quick on the way back and and we were
1:39:54there not very long but that time I saw
1:39:56a picture of his wife and one of his
1:40:00kids and I remember thinking to myself
1:40:02like wow she's so beautiful and I like
1:40:04took a step back and I was just
1:40:07like this man has a gorgeous house he
1:40:11has beautiful babies he has a beautiful
1:40:13wife he has an awesome job
1:40:16like why would he want to leave this and
1:40:20I remember talking to him about it and
1:40:23that was was the first time that I tried
1:40:25to actually say what do you think about
1:40:27not separating from your wife like what
1:40:29if you really try to work on this and he
1:40:31had expressed to me that we've tried to
1:40:33work on this and it's not working so
1:40:36that is why we're
1:40:38separating and I spent some time like
1:40:41just you know kind of cuz it it almost
1:40:43made me feel bad where I was like to the
1:40:45point
1:40:47where I'm engaging in a relationship
1:40:50with a man who
1:40:53the way he described it is in a
1:40:55contractual agreement but was not in
1:40:57like an emotional relationship with
1:41:00somebody um and for me the way I would
1:41:03have preferred to do this is to have
1:41:05wait until that contractual agreement
1:41:07was also done and he was done and he
1:41:10could have approached me and said I'm
1:41:13just had a divorce you know maybe we
1:41:17could take this slow what do you think
1:41:18but instead it was oh we're separated
1:41:20and we're working on a divorce and
1:41:24and that is the part that I feel bad
1:41:28about because I should have waited on
1:41:31that and I
1:41:32didn't and you know I was just like well
1:41:35they're already there so you know but
1:41:37then being in a house was just like why
1:41:41fix this find a way to fix this make it
1:41:43work you know and and I would I would I
1:41:45was like trying to push him to do it and
1:41:47he seemed pretty reluctant to do it he
1:41:50didn't want to and um
1:41:54I don't know we were still seeing each
1:41:55other fairly frequently
1:41:57but I kind of like backed away so we
1:42:00weren't hanging out quite as much and we
1:42:02were still close but it was just like I
1:42:05really wanted him to try like I wanted
1:42:07to know that he tried and it didn't work
1:42:10and then he moved on
1:42:17not not that you know they both kind of
1:42:21tried and then he got himself into a
1:42:24situation with somebody else and I don't
1:42:27know I just thought he had a beautiful
1:42:29life going on and he could have made it
1:42:30work that was the way I looked at it
1:42:32from the outside so is this something
1:42:34you reflected on since this event or was
1:42:37this you no I was doing it then like you
1:42:40you said this this doesn't look right
1:42:41he's kind of um I don't want to be
1:42:43responsible for breaking up a marriage
1:42:45especially with two children is that
1:42:47kind of the gist I'm getting here I
1:42:49didn't think it didn't look right I mean
1:42:51I I think he was legitimately sleep of
1:42:53the basement and I don't I didn't think
1:42:55that these two were I mean I think it
1:42:58was like Hey we're both stuck in this
1:42:59house for now we got to sell this in the
1:43:01meantime you live here I live here we
1:43:04sleep in different rooms take care of
1:43:05the kids that's just like kind of how I
1:43:08took that and um no I didn't think it
1:43:11didn't look right I just thought it just
1:43:14seemed like he had so much going on and
1:43:17it was just beautiful that I was like
1:43:19why don't you just try this out you know
1:43:21and see if you can fix it and he'd
1:43:23always be like well what about us what
1:43:24about us I'm like don't worry about us
1:43:26like that is more important like try to
1:43:28see if you can like Salvage whatever it
1:43:30is that you have going on with your wife
1:43:32and and you know he I always got the
1:43:34impression that he was a great father to
1:43:35his kids like always and so you know and
1:43:38I was like and be the dad that you want
1:43:40to be I was looking see if you can make
1:43:41it work and he just like we kind of
1:43:44talked about it off and on for like a
1:43:45few weeks and I was just kind of like I
1:43:47don't know like I think I was kind of
1:43:50like cold feting about it when I went
1:43:52after I went over house and so this was
1:43:54like pretty early on and then
1:43:57um he told me that uh oh he went to
1:44:02um he went to North
1:44:05Carolina and he was like I'm going to
1:44:08talk to her when I'm in North Carolina
1:44:11and see if I can get her to do this to
1:44:14like try to like rekindle the flame okay
1:44:18so try to uh Salvage his relationship as
1:44:22you've been asking him yes and and then
1:44:24if he de go to North Carolina um I think
1:44:27it was like the last week of July
1:44:30somewhere around there okay so I mean
1:44:32this was like a couple weeks that I was
1:44:34just kind of like trying to push him to
1:44:36do that let's pause at North Carolina
1:44:38and we'll come back to that real quick I
1:44:39want you to read this if you don't
1:44:41understand what it means then ask me the
1:44:43question but basically what it says is
1:44:45you have the right not to let me look at
1:44:47your phone I'm asking to look at your
1:44:49phone for the purposes we've previously
1:44:51discussed for the text messages and your
1:44:53phone log and unfortunately the photos
1:44:56that are attached there Ino um that
1:44:59information is only Rel relative to this
1:45:01investigation I'm not looking at
1:45:03anything else except for the
1:45:04conversations between you and Chris
1:45:07Watts and the phone um data between you
1:45:10and Chris Watts for phone calls for
1:45:12times and dates for those phone calls um
1:45:16and then the content of the text
1:45:17messages that that are there and we can
1:45:20we'll write that specifically down here
1:45:22understand that want anybody to get some
1:45:24of those texts like they have nothing to
1:45:26do with this case and they're just like
1:45:28between you and Chris yes they're just
1:45:31they're just so just tell me what you're
1:45:33they're just kind of runchy like I don't
1:45:36need anybody everybody's adult posted
1:45:39like we're
1:45:40going I don't need I don't want the
1:45:43newspapers to get that that's all I want
1:45:45the only on that we would be looking for
1:45:46again is the same kind of questions
1:45:48we're getting to here is things about
1:45:51his children things about his wife the
1:45:54the questioning of did he ever you know
1:45:57has he ever said something to you that
1:45:58might indicate maybe not then but now
1:46:02that there was something like this in
1:46:04his mind or you you know what we're
1:46:06looking for I don't need to come out and
1:46:08tell you that I understand the
1:46:10embarrassment of particular photos or
1:46:13potential um sexual types of
1:46:16conversations you may have had with
1:46:18Chris it's it's not relative to
1:46:21investigation we don't care okay you're
1:46:23an adult I'm an adult everybody in this
1:46:25room's even your dad and I give it to
1:46:28you for saying that stuff in front of
1:46:29your dad cuz I'm not sure many women
1:46:31could do that um so that's not what
1:46:34we're we're after we're after the the
1:46:36information that cooperates things that
1:46:39you've told us and also that cooperates
1:46:42or um May tend to prove that things that
1:46:46Chris told us were a lie you understand
1:46:49that um and that's maybe going a little
1:46:51bit far I usually won't tell people that
1:46:52but because of your reservations that's
1:46:54what I'm looking for if I can disprove
1:46:56something he's told me by a phone record
1:46:59phone records don't lie people do okay
1:47:02so if I can disprove something that may
1:47:05be important that's what I need it for
1:47:07I'm not saying I Can Has it happened
1:47:10before absolutely is it critical in
1:47:12cases that I've worked in the past yes
1:47:14so that's why I want it okay um again
1:47:18you don't have to give it to me you can
1:47:19tell me I don't want you to have it go
1:47:21get a warrant
1:47:23um I'm not even going to tell you if I
1:47:24go get a war try to get a warrant right
1:47:26now I'm just asking for you to consent
1:47:28and and again we can write right here
1:47:30what you're willing to give me which is
1:47:32the text messages and the phone log and
1:47:35unfortunately again the the attachments
1:47:37on some of those text messages and I'll
1:47:39write it on there and then you'll just
1:47:40sign it okay do you do you understand
1:47:43the questions there do you have
1:47:44questions about any of the things that
1:47:46it says you understand you don't have to
1:47:47do this you're doing it of your own free
1:47:49will
1:47:57and I know you're tired so if you want
1:47:58to let your dad read it too he will
1:48:01thank you that's that's a good idea can
1:48:03you fill it out before I sign it Y and
1:48:05just you read it if you have any
1:48:07questions then we'll we'll put on there
1:48:09what we're
1:48:10after I'm so hungry you should have told
1:48:14me I would have got you some food I got
1:48:15food in my car it's not staying down
1:48:18it's just coming she hadn't been feeling
1:48:20good not cuz of any just like I got sick
1:48:23prior to this whole thing happening and
1:48:26then I think all of this compounding
1:48:28with the fact that I'm sick it's just
1:48:30not good I've not really been eating or
1:48:32sleeping much at
1:48:39all yeah
1:48:43I I'm with you we definitely need to
1:48:46accelerate the case because the more
1:48:50long the more it takes the less sure
1:48:52that are of
1:48:54situations but on the other end I think
1:48:57if we if you do just that only you tell
1:49:01me what you're willing to provide me is
1:49:03that good
1:49:04enough I just want like our text
1:49:07conversation and then I guess our phone
1:49:09call
1:49:10records so I'm going to put so the time
1:49:13and date of the phone call records and
1:49:14then our text message we get photos of
1:49:16him huh could we get photos of
1:49:19him off of that would you mind if we got
1:49:22his photos that he sent to you well
1:49:25there'll be in that text message thing
1:49:27so all his photos were sent there was no
1:49:29apps or anything else youed that you
1:49:31sending it was all just text messages
1:49:33yeah okay so it' be an attachment to a
1:49:35text that he sent you pretty much
1:49:38everything is in the text and the phone
1:49:39call records so like all of it because
1:49:42we don't have it on tape we discussed
1:49:44prior to turning the tape on um on
1:49:48Tuesday which would have been the 14th
1:49:50of August um
1:49:53you had read some newspaper articles on
1:49:55the 13th and the 14th that regarded this
1:49:57case you had also had a conversation
1:49:59with Chris at some point during the day
1:50:00on Monday uh and on Tuesday because of
1:50:04what you found specifically what you
1:50:05said was and don't let me put words in
1:50:07your mouth but you KN you found out that
1:50:10his um wife was pregnant and I yes and
1:50:14you did not know that prior no and you
1:50:16found that out via the newspaper
1:50:18articles and that caused
1:50:20you concern well I just realized that he
1:50:24was lying to me and I was like well if
1:50:26you can lie to me about this what else
1:50:27are you lying to me about and it made me
1:50:29realize that maybe his wife was in
1:50:31danger at that point and it was day two
1:50:33too and she still wasn't home what did
1:50:35that cause you to do with your phone
1:50:38though oh what when I deleted those I
1:50:41was just kind of grossed out by him to
1:50:43be honest with you I was just like I
1:50:45don't know what's going on right now but
1:50:47you just lied to me and I don't want to
1:50:49see this come over my phone anymore so I
1:50:52removed it so you re just you already
1:50:55said but you removed text messages I
1:50:57deleted all of his stuff because he lied
1:50:59to me I mean that's what it was it was
1:51:01it was the hurt that made me delete it
1:51:05and then it was the lie that made me
1:51:08start questioning everything else he'd
1:51:09been telling me for the last few days
1:51:11and that's when you decided to come
1:51:12forward yes okay so just for context
1:51:16when people delete stuff off phones
1:51:18usually we
1:51:20Goot it why at all it wasn't malicious
1:51:24at all he he he lied to me it just hurt
1:51:28like I had never felt like he'd ever
1:51:29lied to me before and it was a big lie I
1:51:31mean telling somebody that you're in the
1:51:34midst of a divorce and then
1:51:37you have a wife that has a 15 week old
1:51:42baby on the way is a huge huge thing and
1:51:47I was very taken back and I was just it
1:51:49was hurt and so at that point I just
1:51:53I like deleted it I had I had a few more
1:51:57quick things to say to him and then I
1:52:01just got rid of them that's literally
1:52:03what I did I just cut him out of my life
1:52:05it would have honestly been like a bad
1:52:06breakup kind of thing like if none of
1:52:09this other stuff would have happened
1:52:10that's what it would have been that
1:52:11would have been the end of it the
1:52:12information was not destroyed because
1:52:15there was anything in there that would
1:52:17be harmful to you or potentially to
1:52:20Chris at this point but harmful to you
1:52:22in particular that's not what you did it
1:52:24no you did it out
1:52:26of oh excuse my language this guy's an
1:52:28[ __ ] so I'm getting it rid of him and
1:52:31I'm getting this stuff off my phone that
1:52:33was like me kicking him out of my life
1:52:35okay and then like I said and then
1:52:37realizing that he lied that was when I
1:52:39was like okay maybe his family is in
1:52:42danger and they're not coming back and
1:52:44they're not staying with a
1:52:46friend yeah when do I go over there
1:52:49Tuesday morning Wednesday morning
1:52:51Wednesday I called Wednesday morning
1:52:53that's when we started discussing you
1:52:55guys need to get everything that I just
1:53:00you can understand the importance of oh
1:53:02no question we were like I said people
1:53:04lie phone records don't um and they
1:53:07really helped specifically um establish
1:53:11dates and times I think we have a very
1:53:13good grip on that in this case already
1:53:15but there may be a time when we go we
1:53:17need to know something else and then we
1:53:19would have it we don't want to lose it
1:53:20and that's that's really what it is for
1:53:22us is if we lose information that later
1:53:25on we go man I wish we would have got
1:53:26that and we may never even use these we
1:53:29may never even look at them but if if we
1:53:32have it now then we don't worry about
1:53:33losing it so I appreciate you being
1:53:35cooperative and giving it to us so the
1:53:37first thing I wrote was text messages
1:53:39between Chris Watts and attachments okay
1:53:43so because we're talking about the
1:53:44photographs unfortunately that cause you
1:53:47much
1:53:50disdain and then I am going to put uh
1:53:52phone
1:53:55log for
1:53:58calls
1:54:01between uh yourself and Chris
1:54:03Watts your phone number is 720
1:54:09656
1:54:189605 and this right now is located at
1:54:21we're at the Thor and police department
1:54:23it's going to be moved to my so this is
1:54:26kind of doesn't make sense but we're
1:54:28here it's going to be moved to the C
1:54:29Bureau of Investigation he's going to
1:54:31download it here but I'm going to take
1:54:32it with me just so you know it's not
1:54:34staying here okay they're not going to
1:54:35retain any of this this comes with me
1:54:37okay
1:54:39okay is there anything else you want on
1:54:41there I think that's about that's it I
1:54:44mean I don't have social media I don't
1:54:46really have anything else you guys can
1:54:48pull okay is there anything else you
1:54:51know of that could help us with this
1:54:53that we that is not on this sheet uh as
1:54:55far as like data that's on your phone no
1:54:59no I mean everything we did was like
1:55:01text and talk pretty much I mean and
1:55:04like I said any pictures that I had like
1:55:07even if you were to restore all my
1:55:08regular photos there's so many pictures
1:55:10in there and you wouldn't even know
1:55:11which ones were for him and which ones
1:55:12weren't but the one any picture that I
1:55:14wanted to send to him I sent via text so
1:55:16if you guys go through the text and the
1:55:17attachments you will have you will have
1:55:20everything that wasn't said verbally and
1:55:21was done via text but I think that's it
1:55:24like I don't have I don't have anything
1:55:26else as far as like no Facebook no
1:55:29Instagram no no Twitter No LinkedIn like
1:55:32none of it so um there was never any of
1:55:35that kind of Correspondence so I think
1:55:38that should probably cover everything
1:55:40you guys will need is there any
1:55:41particular messages that I would help me
1:55:44so I don't have to look at because
1:55:46whatever is on your phone I don't know
1:55:47how long we're going to get back to but
1:55:49let's say there is there a particular
1:55:51date or time message that stands out to
1:55:53you that would be relative to
1:55:55specifically to the investigation into
1:55:57this case that might assist me in
1:56:00understanding why something like this
1:56:01could have
1:56:03occurred I'm still in shock that this
1:56:05whole thing happened like I I like
1:56:09that's why I gave him the benefit of the
1:56:11doubt for the first day cuz I was just
1:56:13like no way like I didn't even think
1:56:16about that I mean murder was not on the
1:56:18top of my mind when somebody doesn't
1:56:20come home for an evening especially if
1:56:22they just like had some sort of like
1:56:25heated conversation it's like okay you
1:56:28guys are separating you have heated
1:56:29conversation you leave for a night like
1:56:32I didn't even
1:56:33think this guy killed his wife I mean
1:56:35that that like murders on something on
1:56:37the top of my mind when I call one of my
1:56:40friends for 3 or 4 hours and she doesn't
1:56:42answer the phone like that doesn't even
1:56:44process to me as like a real thing that
1:56:48is a possibility at that point and so
1:56:51that's why I gave it a day and then the
1:56:53second day I was talking to him he was
1:56:55just like a hot mess I could tell and
1:56:57then with like the way he was talking to
1:57:00me and then that's kind of when I cut
1:57:02him off and I stopped talking to him and
1:57:05then so remember what you just said and
1:57:07we're going to get to that because
1:57:08that's probably a very important
1:57:10conversation so if you want to know days
1:57:12I would probably honestly just start it
1:57:14like Sunday and work your way forward I
1:57:16mean all the rest of that stuff it's
1:57:18just like the small talk of like hey
1:57:20this this this you know I mean and your
1:57:23relationship building through the yeah I
1:57:25mean like and if you go like a maybe
1:57:27like a week further back like there's
1:57:29times like I was trying to help him find
1:57:30an apartment like just for him not for
1:57:32me but for him and his kids um to get
1:57:36set up and like there's times where I'm
1:57:38like well where's your wife moving to
1:57:41like how close is she going to be to you
1:57:43you should be within like 30 minutes of
1:57:45your kids so they're close and like you
1:57:47want to be close to their school and
1:57:49close to your gym and like what's your
1:57:51price range like I was helping him get
1:57:54all of this stuff set up and it was like
1:57:56in a very decent Manner and I don't know
1:57:58if all of that is in text some of it's
1:58:00probably on the phone like at this point
1:58:01I've talked to him so much that I don't
1:58:03even know which parts are like
1:58:06verbalized and which parts are texted at
1:58:08this point but we can figure it out okay
1:58:12you see what I wrote text messages
1:58:14between Chris Watts and attachments uh
1:58:17and then the phone logs for calls
1:58:19between your phone number and Chris
1:58:20Watts that's those are the two things
1:58:22that will as to be extracted from your
1:58:25phone so if you're okay with that why
1:58:27does it say add remove cell phone data
1:58:29isn't that this that is that and that's
1:58:31what he's going to remove and then that
1:58:33officer is going to fill that out gotcha
1:58:36what is the date I don't even know what
1:58:37to date the date is the
1:58:4716th you want to add anything to this
1:58:51she give me
1:58:53yeah we just we want to give you
1:58:55everything but we also want to be
1:58:57protected in doing so is more of the
1:59:00sure was more of the thing it it's just
1:59:02and when he's done we'll give you is
1:59:04there a password or anything like it
1:59:05will it lock up after period of time
1:59:11yeah that's his
1:59:14not
1:59:17and make sure there's nothing written on
1:59:18the back there's not I checked before I
1:59:21RI It Off
1:59:25okay let's go back to North Carolina
1:59:27okay he went to North Carolina and he
1:59:29was trying to rehab his marriage with
1:59:31his wife uh he said you know her name at
1:59:34this point yeah okay are you okay saying
1:59:37her name it's shenan all right and do
1:59:41you know the children's name yes it's
1:59:42Bella Celeste CeCe she went by they
1:59:46called her CeCe all right so he went to
1:59:49were they in North Carolina they already
1:59:51there if you want something
1:59:53I don't know if my stomach would do that
1:59:55um yeah they were already out there he
1:59:58just flew out there to go meet up did
1:59:59you know why they were there they're
2:00:00they're all from there okay so they were
2:00:03they were visiting her family for the
2:00:05most part until he got there and then
2:00:08they still were mostly visiting her
2:00:10family okay do you know how long they
2:00:12had been there a while like weeks all
2:00:16right and he flew out to join his family
2:00:20there yep did you know specifically
2:00:22where you flew to what airport no no no
2:00:25what city no not off the top of my head
2:00:28I'm sure if I thought real hard maybe I
2:00:30could think about it but I mean come up
2:00:32with it no I don't know all right so he
2:00:35goes there how you said it was like the
2:00:37last week of July I think so I think it
2:00:39was like one of the last days of July
2:00:41I'm almost positive I think it was a
2:00:43week day okay
2:00:47um yeah I flew out there and I thought
2:00:52had like convinced him to like try to
2:00:55make peace with her and I was like if
2:00:57you guys work on this like I'm out cuz
2:01:00what's the point like I'm not trying to
2:01:02be with somebody that's in another
2:01:03relationship which I know that sounds
2:01:05silly given the whole relationship that
2:01:07we had in the first place but I really
2:01:09was under the impression that they were
2:01:13separating I mean it was like reiterated
2:01:15to me so many times that that's what I
2:01:18thought it was and it made sense to me
2:01:20too because like he could pretty much
2:01:22call me whenever he wanted like I was
2:01:24the one that would tell him like Hey
2:01:25when your kids are awake you need to
2:01:26spend time with your kids like do that
2:01:28and then after they go to bed like if
2:01:30you want to talk to me you can talk to
2:01:31me but it was never like this super
2:01:33super restricted thing like
2:01:37sometimes like right after work if I was
2:01:40like still talking to him I get kind of
2:01:41bummed out and you know I tell them just
2:01:43like oh it's frustrating sometimes like
2:01:44having to like wait but at the same time
2:01:47I was never like this is horrible or you
2:01:49know it was always like I
2:01:52why but then once his kidss were asleep
2:01:55he never like had
2:01:59any it was like he could do what he
2:02:01wanted do you know what I'm saying like
2:02:02he was in his basement and she's
2:02:04upstairs and they're not
2:02:07speaking so it kind of made sense it
2:02:09wasn't like you guys were just texting
2:02:11and or talking or whatever you know I
2:02:14mean and it was just it was like I said
2:02:16it was at certain times but that time
2:02:18and originally it wasn't but it was me
2:02:20that put that time frame on there cuz I
2:02:22thought he should hang out with his
2:02:24kids um those two times you were at his
2:02:27house did you see any evidence of that
2:02:29him living in the basement did he ever
2:02:31show you that area anything I've seen
2:02:32yeah I went down there and saw his his
2:02:35little workout equipment and there's a
2:02:36bed down there all set up and the
2:02:38basement was all clean and organized and
2:02:40stuff so um like a like a decent bed set
2:02:43up so it made sense to me like hey this
2:02:46is this is what's happening down here um
2:02:49so I saw
2:02:50it um even though his family was in
2:02:53North Carolina for multiple weeks it
2:02:55appeared that he was still living in the
2:02:57basement well and he told me sometimes
2:02:59he would like go upstairs and sleep if
2:03:01if like he was home alone cuz I know
2:03:03she'd like go on business trips and
2:03:04stuff but he's like I don't like that
2:03:06bed anyway so he didn't really like
2:03:07sleep up there I was like okay um even
2:03:11when it was just him so that was the
2:03:13impression that I got
2:03:16um I what we talking about North
2:03:18Carolina yeah go back to North Carol so
2:03:20North Carolina
2:03:23um
2:03:24so he still made very frequent
2:03:27communication with me when he was out
2:03:29there and at one point he told me that
2:03:33they sat
2:03:34down and they talked about it and he
2:03:37told her that he wanted to either fix
2:03:39things or like to try to fix things and
2:03:42if she didn't want to fix them then they
2:03:43needed to like move forward with the
2:03:45separation and like actually file for a
2:03:47divorce at this point was was the
2:03:49impression that I got from this and was
2:03:52what he told me and so
2:03:54um he said that she was like pretty
2:03:57receptive to just not trying he was like
2:04:00she seemed like she just wants me to go
2:04:03he's like when she has her mind made up
2:04:04she has her mind made up and that's what
2:04:05she wants and he's like she doesn't want
2:04:07to try anymore and he's like and neither
2:04:09do I really and he was like it's done
2:04:11and he's like um and then the next day I
2:04:16don't even know what days these were
2:04:17sometime when he was out there he told
2:04:19me um
2:04:21we're putting the house up for sale as
2:04:23soon as we get back and I was like Wella
2:04:25that was quick and he was like it's her
2:04:27she's ready to go and I was like
2:04:29okay and so I left it at that and then
2:04:34um he got back and I started asking him
2:04:37like what are you going to do because
2:04:40the Colorado housing market is fire and
2:04:42you guys are going to sell this house
2:04:44like real fast and I'm like you need to
2:04:46start looking for a new place to live
2:04:47and I'm like where do you want to live
2:04:50and I was really trying to help him out
2:04:52I'm like do you want to get a house do
2:04:54you want three bedrooms so you have one
2:04:56and each of your girls have one I'm like
2:04:59do you want
2:05:00to you know like do an apartment like
2:05:03what do you want you know where do you
2:05:04want to live because he's in Frederick
2:05:06but that whole area over there is just
2:05:07like a bunch of small towns and you can
2:05:09kind of just pick and choose
2:05:10everything's kind of you know and so um
2:05:14he told me well I like Brighton and I
2:05:17was like okay and then he told me he
2:05:20wanted a two apartment and he said he
2:05:23wanted one room for him and the other
2:05:25room for his two girls and I thought it
2:05:27was kind of cute like I remember telling
2:05:29him I was like yeah me and my sister had
2:05:31bunk beds like at my dad's house and I
2:05:33was like when we were little girls and
2:05:34we were me and my sister the same agor
2:05:37part is him and his I mean as his two
2:05:39daughters you know so I told him I was
2:05:41like they're going to love it I was like
2:05:42they might be like stuck in in one room
2:05:44together I was like but they'll become
2:05:46like best buddies and it was really
2:05:47exciting like I liked helping him and I
2:05:50just wanted him to like
2:05:54I don't know this is what he told me he
2:05:56wanted so I was like well I will help
2:05:58you do the research but another thing
2:05:59that I really took care of was to be
2:06:01like where is she moving to I was never
2:06:03like you know what screw your wifee try
2:06:05to get a full custody none of that
2:06:07[ __ ] it was always just like you
2:06:09know I'd ask him I'm like what kind of
2:06:11custody you guys going to have cuz he's
2:06:12he at work they're about to switch his
2:06:14schedule so right now he's like on
2:06:16Monday through Friday and they're about
2:06:18to switch these guys to eight days on
2:06:19six days off that's stuff
2:06:22that's awesome and I and I was so I was
2:06:25tell I was asking him I was like are you
2:06:26going to have your kids like on that set
2:06:29of days off I was like cuz that would
2:06:31work perfect like one week on one week
2:06:33off and I was just like you know we just
2:06:35talk about it and I'm like what is your
2:06:37plan and he's like we haven't figured
2:06:39out exactly what we're going to do about
2:06:41the kids yet but he told me he's like
2:06:42Colorado's a 50-50 State and she's okay
2:06:44with everything 5050 like he said that
2:06:47she was like on board with this because
2:06:49she wanted it too like she was checked
2:06:51out out of this relationship so that was
2:06:53like how he made this sound that it was
2:06:56like a very like
2:06:59kosher word done kind of thing did you
2:07:02ever give him like books or articles or
2:07:06anything to read about saving your
2:07:07marriage did you ever provide anything
2:07:09to him like that about saving his
2:07:11marriage yeah like how to recover a
2:07:13marriage or how to save your marriage
2:07:15you know there's there's all sorts of
2:07:17Publications and books out there no but
2:07:19I did tell him and I don't know if I did
2:07:21this through text her phone that will be
2:07:22something you guys will I'm sure figure
2:07:24out um but I would tell I told him a few
2:07:26times like I think that you should take
2:07:29the time to read some articles uh about
2:07:32um what separation does to kids you know
2:07:34and I told him I said when my parents
2:07:37separated we were literally like three
2:07:39and five we were almost the exact same
2:07:41age as these little girls and I told him
2:07:42I said you
2:07:43know I was so young when it happened
2:07:46that it didn't really have like a big
2:07:50negative effect on me because I was so
2:07:51small that I didn't really process it
2:07:53too well I was like but I do have
2:07:54cousins that their parents got divorced
2:07:56when they were like 10 11 and I think
2:07:58that it hit them a little harder you
2:08:00know and I and he's like oh they'll be
2:08:02fine you know and I told him I was like
2:08:04even though they're small and you think
2:08:05that they'll be fine I was like I think
2:08:07you guys should just read about it just
2:08:09so that you guys are prepared in case
2:08:11you know one of these two starts having
2:08:13a hard time with the fact that you guys
2:08:14aren't in the same house anymore you
2:08:16know and and I would tell him I was like
2:08:18you know there's pros and cons to it
2:08:19like cuz he was like ready to do it and
2:08:22it would be like you know it's kind of
2:08:23cool having two Christmases and you know
2:08:25like your parents get to go you know be
2:08:27happy doing whatever it is they want to
2:08:29do with their lives and they don't have
2:08:30to be in a situation that's probably not
2:08:33good for the kids because it's not good
2:08:34for those too you know but at the same
2:08:36time it was like just read like that's
2:08:39what I always used to tell him I'd
2:08:40always tell him to like I I tell people
2:08:42to read about everything reading is so
2:08:43good for you so
2:08:45he at this time is telling you that yeah
2:08:49I am the guy trying to save the marriage
2:08:50and she doesn't want that's what he told
2:08:52me that's what he told me so um and he
2:08:57yeah and then he was like she doesn't
2:08:58want it so I'm not going to do it and
2:09:00then it was like we're filing for
2:09:02divorce we're selling the house and this
2:09:05was like all as soon as they were coming
2:09:06back from North Carolina like boom boom
2:09:07boom boom boom did you recall when he
2:09:09gets back from North Carolina no I don't
2:09:11even know how long he was out there I
2:09:12know it was like less than two weeks and
2:09:14more than one okay I don't remember so
2:09:16he was he comes back early August would
2:09:18that be fair oh yeah it was definitely
2:09:20like in the first two weeks somewhere
2:09:22all right probably the second week of
2:09:24August at some point in that I don't
2:09:25remember when does his wife come back
2:09:27with him at that time or yeah they all
2:09:28came back they all come back at the same
2:09:30they all came back um and then uh yeah
2:09:34so he
2:09:36he continues to just you know tell me
2:09:39that this is like what he wants and and
2:09:41so I took the time and you will see that
2:09:43in the text too where I like like there
2:09:45like I found this apartment it was
2:09:47perfect it was so cute I was like it's
2:09:49in your price range it's like 6 from the
2:09:51gym it's 23 miles from work I'm like you
2:09:54know it's super close to Frederick it's
2:09:56going to be by your kids school like
2:09:59this is this is the spot you know and
2:10:01and and I told him I was like I'll keep
2:10:03looking for more places and he's like
2:10:05well there's some that I want to go see
2:10:06too and he actually had me thinking that
2:10:09he was going to go look at these places
2:10:11this
2:10:12week before all this so this is fairly
2:10:15recent thing this just happened like in
2:10:17the last he's going to go look at
2:10:18apartments he wanted me to go when you
2:10:20say this week or you say saying like
2:10:22this Monday was the 13th like this week
2:10:25okay yeah so I told him I was like well
2:10:27pick out a few spots and if you want me
2:10:30to come with you I'll go look at him but
2:10:32you you know you said earlier that he
2:10:34had never um or that the the apartment
2:10:37wasn't for you and him it was just for
2:10:38him and his children oh yes it wasn't
2:10:40you weren't had no intentions of moving
2:10:42in with him no I have my own spot I
2:10:44still have a lease there till July and
2:10:46even then like he never asked me to move
2:10:48in with him and I never to move in with
2:10:52him I mean I told him I
2:10:54mean I really try to take everything
2:10:57with this whole situation very slow the
2:10:59only part that I screwed up on was the
2:11:00fact that he wasn't completely separated
2:11:02from her when him and I decided to spend
2:11:06time with each other that is where I
2:11:07screwed up but other than that
2:11:09everything else it was always like you
2:11:12know you build your life I'm going to
2:11:14build my life we will intertwine them
2:11:17but I am not ready to like do this and
2:11:20he respected that
2:11:21and I and I um I even said that and I
2:11:24don't know I that might be in the text
2:11:26but said that too where it's like Chris
2:11:28like you need space like you're just
2:11:31getting out of a divorce like personally
2:11:33I think jumping into a new relationship
2:11:35is a little quick it's like I was in a
2:11:38relationship earlier this year and I
2:11:40think this is also a little quick and
2:11:42I'm like so why don't we take our time
2:11:44and I'm like if you guys end up doing a
2:11:45week on a week off with your kids unlike
2:11:48the week you have your kids be with your
2:11:50children and the week that you don't I'm
2:11:52like I don't even want to see you every
2:11:54day I'm like I think we should spend
2:11:56like a few days of that together I'm
2:11:58like CU I like my space and I think you
2:12:00need your space I think you need your
2:12:01space to like develop your identity
2:12:03again and like get it back because I
2:12:05think he's just been like so wrapped up
2:12:07in this whole thing that he's got in his
2:12:09own life and his life that he I mean he
2:12:11doesn't remember probably what it's like
2:12:13to like be single or have time where
2:12:15it's like just him and so I was just
2:12:17like you know like Embrace that I think
2:12:20it's a beautiful thing and I really try
2:12:21to like take it smart with all that and
2:12:23it was the same thing with his kids I
2:12:24was just like you know like and I and we
2:12:27talk about things every once in a while
2:12:29where you know I'd be like hey if I ever
2:12:30meet you know cuz like I have a lot of
2:12:32house plants that's a good example so I
2:12:34have a lot of house plants and I told I
2:12:36told them I was like one day if I ever
2:12:39meet your kids I was like I'm going to
2:12:40show these girls how to like paint
2:12:43pottery and plants plants I was like I
2:12:44think they would love to see something
2:12:46grow that they buil I think it would be
2:12:47really really cute and like little stuff
2:12:50like that but it wasn't very frequent it
2:12:52wasn't hey we should get married and hey
2:12:54we should have babies and hey I want to
2:12:56live with you and hey I need to meet
2:12:57your children now and let's cut the mom
2:13:00out it was never like that there was
2:13:02never any conversation about you know we
2:13:04can't do this with her around we can't
2:13:06do this with the kids around he never
2:13:08said that you never said that no so
2:13:11there
2:13:13the
2:13:15the way you guys were trying to make
2:13:17this work was just you know slowly
2:13:20trying to come together because of his
2:13:23current situation and by your own
2:13:26account your own mine I you're just a
2:13:30independent person it sounds like pretty
2:13:31much yeah and uh but through text
2:13:35message or through conversation he never
2:13:38said hey uh you know this isn't going to
2:13:41be financially able I'm not going to be
2:13:44financially able to do this or this
2:13:46isn't a good thing I got these kids none
2:13:49of those conversations ever came up no I
2:13:52mean he told me like he had a budget
2:13:54restriction so for his apartment and I'm
2:13:56pretty sure this is in the text and this
2:13:57will probably be in the last couple
2:13:58weeks um he told me 1100 to 1400 when I
2:14:02was asking him like cuz I told him I'd
2:14:03help him do homework I was like you do
2:14:05some homework I'll do some homework
2:14:06we'll knock this out because if you guys
2:14:08are for real putting the house up you
2:14:10got to figure it out um and so that was
2:14:15his budget and I remember asking him I
2:14:17was like you sure you don't want to just
2:14:18get like a house and he's like I never
2:14:20thought about a house I'm like yeah you
2:14:21can rent houses man like it's a thing
2:14:24and he's just like I don't know if I can
2:14:25afford that I was like okay and I knew
2:14:29that those two had been through some
2:14:30financial trouble I definitely found out
2:14:32a lot more about that situation in the
2:14:35newspaper recently um okay so prior to
2:14:38the newspaper how did you know he was in
2:14:40financial difficulty cuz he I mean I
2:14:44when I went to that
2:14:46house everything in there is very very
2:14:49very very nice it looked looks like it
2:14:51all comes with a very expensive price
2:14:53tag and uh I didn't say anything to him
2:14:56about it but I could kind of tell then
2:14:58where I was like just looking at
2:14:59everything like how do you guys afford
2:15:02this and then he has that car this I
2:15:04don't even know how much that car costs
2:15:06but I bet what car is that Lexus I'm
2:15:08sure that thing cost like 80 grand but
2:15:10just like money like everything just
2:15:12looked like it costs a lot of money in
2:15:14that house you probably have a decent
2:15:16idea of how much money he makes yeah and
2:15:19it's not enough money to pay for all
2:15:20that not even clo did you have any idea
2:15:23of what um shanan did for a living or
2:15:26how much money she might have made I
2:15:27mean I had an idea I don't I mean I
2:15:30would consider her like a sales repe I
2:15:31don't know how else to describe that
2:15:34um for the company that she worked for
2:15:37and uh I don't know exactly how much she
2:15:39made he said that she was really
2:15:41competitive and she liked to try to keep
2:15:42up with him he's like she gets close
2:15:44sometimes so I don't know how much those
2:15:46two brought in I mean off top of my head
2:15:47if I could guess probably somewhere
2:15:49around like 140k a year I mean I don't
2:15:52know cuz I don't know exactly how much
2:15:54he makes and I don't know exactly how
2:15:56much she makes but based just off like
2:15:57what I know about the oil field like
2:15:59yeah I I would say that's probably an
2:16:01accurate estimate so he even if they're
2:16:03making let's just use the figure
2:16:06$100,000 they're living above their
2:16:09means or below their oh my God like way
2:16:11too much way way way he ever discuss
2:16:14with you any of those issues I mean a
2:16:16little I mean I didn't know about the
2:16:18bankruptcy or any of that till I read on
2:16:19the newspaper about that but he just I
2:16:22think he was really frustrated with the
2:16:24situation um he told me he's like you
2:16:26know I feel like my paycheck goes in my
2:16:28bank account and I just watch it go like
2:16:30this he's like but it doesn't have to
2:16:31he's like she makes it like that and I
2:16:34was just like was he resentful for that
2:16:36I don't know if he was resentful I just
2:16:38think he was frustrated by the fact that
2:16:40they could be doing a lot better
2:16:41financially and she from the vibe that I
2:16:45got had really bad spending habits so
2:16:48she was a spender um
2:16:51the car hers or his I think it's hers
2:16:54I'm pretty sure that that's hers do you
2:16:56know what other car they might have well
2:16:58I mean his APC pickup truck and that's
2:17:01that's it I think that's owned by Anna
2:17:03Darko though right yeah but so I don't I
2:17:06don't think they own any other vehicles
2:17:07as far as I know I think it's just that
2:17:09thing and and anad Darko doesn't allow
2:17:12him to drive that on his own personal
2:17:13time right so he just got one vehicle
2:17:16yep um and it's a very expensive Lexus
2:17:19um and then they in a pretty expensive
2:17:22house it's a huge house I was very taken
2:17:25back when I saw it I was just like
2:17:27whoa how and fixtures inside caused you
2:17:31to pause everything everything was just
2:17:34like and then you mentioned today you
2:17:36read something about uh bankruptcy yep
2:17:39what did you read that those guys filed
2:17:41bankruptcy for a lot of money in who are
2:17:44those guys do that that couple okay in
2:17:462015 oh shanan and Chris piled
2:17:49bankruptcy in 201 15 okay and you said
2:17:52for a lot of money do you recall the
2:17:54amount no because it was different in
2:17:56each of newspapers and I don't know
2:17:58which one to believe so hundreds of
2:18:00thousands of
2:18:02dollars so
2:18:04um yeah I didn't know that let's go just
2:18:07back to him and the financial he tells
2:18:11you he has a concern enough to at least
2:18:14express some something to you that he's
2:18:17frustrated with the way she spends or
2:18:19he's upset with working so hard and
2:18:21never having any money and she's kind of
2:18:24the responsibility she's the responsible
2:18:27party for spending most of the money I I
2:18:29pretty much got that Vibe I mean he just
2:18:31told me he's like we're house broke all
2:18:33the time I was just like that's
2:18:35unfortunate and I asked him I was like
2:18:37do you have 401k and he was like yeah
2:18:40and I mean the reason I asked him this
2:18:42is because if I get into relationship
2:18:45with somebody I want to know like what
2:18:47kind of baggage that they have I think
2:18:49that's important if I walk into
2:18:50situation where I'm like hey I have good
2:18:52credit and I have all these things that
2:18:54I've been building and you don't have
2:18:58your stuff together like what are we
2:18:59going to do with this and it's important
2:19:01for your your longterm so I'm preparing
2:19:05and so I just asked him I was like well
2:19:06do you have 401k and he was like he's
2:19:10like yeah I do have that and then I
2:19:12asked him I was like um I I didn't ask
2:19:16him like how much debt they had or
2:19:17anything but I just said is your
2:19:19lifestyle sustainable and he he was like
2:19:21No And I was like how long you think
2:19:23that's going to take he's like I don't
2:19:25know but it's not sustainable where did
2:19:27his girls go to school I don't know he
2:19:29never actually told me like when I gave
2:19:31I asked him once it was like when I was
2:19:33trying to find him in an apartment I was
2:19:35like are you comfortable tell me where
2:19:37your girls go to school that's in the
2:19:38text too I was like so I can figure out
2:19:40what distance from the apartment is I
2:19:43was trying to just make his life
2:19:44convenient with like him his ex his kids
2:19:47and all the stuff that he needs to do
2:19:49and work um
2:19:51and he was like don't worry about it
2:19:54their school's pretty centrally located
2:19:55so anywhere in the area that we were
2:19:57discussing we'll be fine and he just
2:19:59left it at that so he didn't even tell
2:20:01me which was fine I respect that daycare
2:20:03is obviously very expensive for a two
2:20:05three and fivey old oh yeah right so I
2:20:08understand did he ever bring uh any did
2:20:10he ever discuss that never okay never um
2:20:15uh like the only like I said the only
2:20:17financial thing he ever said is just
2:20:18like she just likes to spend money like
2:20:20a lot of it so that was just kind of the
2:20:22vibe that I got from that and that it
2:20:23was just it was a lifestyle that she
2:20:25liked to live like
2:20:28very like materialistic kind of
2:20:31Lifestyle wanted a certain image yes all
2:20:34the time and he said that that was why
2:20:36they got that house too it's like she
2:20:38wants everybody to think that we live a
2:20:40certain way and that we can like sustain
2:20:42all this stuff and he's like and we
2:20:44can't and I told him I said when you're
2:20:46in those situations why don't you I'm
2:20:49like do you do you like voice your
2:20:52concern about this and he told me he's
2:20:55like when I try to talk to her he's like
2:20:57she's really bossy and she usually shuts
2:20:59me out and he's like when she does that
2:21:01he's like I just let it go I just like
2:21:04all right I mean I don't I don't try to
2:21:07like interfere with how those two
2:21:09interact but I did ask about it cuz I'm
2:21:12just curious cuz I would never put
2:21:13myself in a situation where someone was
2:21:15like you know what we're going to live
2:21:16in this house that costs like double
2:21:18what we can afford and that's how it's
2:21:19going to be cuz I want everybody to
2:21:21think we're fancy cuz I wouldn't do that
2:21:23I mean to me like I wouldn't put up with
2:21:25somebody doing that to me and I'm not
2:21:27saying that that's what she was doing I
2:21:29mean for all I know he could have been
2:21:31completely lying about this he could be
2:21:32the one spending all the money sure you
2:21:34know this is just what he told you
2:21:36exactly so I mean that's as far as I can
2:21:38interpret it so I can't be like well oh
2:21:40she needs to do this and she needs to do
2:21:42that but he you know he just he voiced
2:21:44his concern where it's just like
2:21:45financially I'm in a very bad spot that
2:21:49I don't need to be in but I'm stuck in
2:21:53and that was kind of where he was at so
2:21:55but I mean he was never like mean when
2:21:57he talked about her he was never hostile
2:21:59like nothing like that he just I mean
2:22:02very calmly like this is the situation
2:22:04and I think the only reason that he even
2:22:06provided me with that information is
2:22:08because I
2:22:10asked okay you said something um about
2:22:14her being controlling or bossy bossy
2:22:18that's what he said um bossy
2:22:21in like all aspects of their life or
2:22:24what you know exactly what he meant by
2:22:26that how that affected him I think he
2:22:30was just saying when he voices his
2:22:31opinion it's not
2:22:33heard is is the gist of that which I
2:22:36thought from what it sounded like from
2:22:38their separation from them trying to
2:22:40separate
2:22:42that that was a big deal for him where
2:22:44he was saying that the reason that they
2:22:47don't really get along anymore is
2:22:49because he feels like he's not heard he
2:22:51says that he you know he comes home from
2:22:54work and he tries to talk to her and
2:22:56she'll just be like one minute I'm on
2:22:57the phone or she'll like scroll through
2:22:59social media and she like doesn't
2:23:02acknowledge Him and um he said that he'd
2:23:06addressed it with her a few times and
2:23:08they're calm he said they don't really
2:23:10like fight like they don't scream and
2:23:13yell um and he said he'd addressed it
2:23:15with her a few times and he said it just
2:23:17fell on deaf ears he's like she just
2:23:20seemed like she's not interested anymore
2:23:22and I think it made him sad
2:23:25because I mean he was like all about his
2:23:28kids and he seemed like he was trying to
2:23:30be all about her but it just wasn't
2:23:31reciprocated and I think at that point
2:23:33he was just like I
2:23:36don't this just they just kind of like
2:23:40fell apart okay just kind of drifted
2:23:42apart was that your words or his what
2:23:45that they fell apart that those are mine
2:23:48okay those are mine he just said that
2:23:50that they didn't communicate very well
2:23:52and it wasn't in a like a aggressive way
2:23:56communicate it was just the fact that
2:23:58they didn't like communicate at all they
2:24:01just they didn't talk they had children
2:24:04and they did did did was there ever
2:24:06mention that he was trying to resolve or
2:24:09save his marriage to for the children's
2:24:12sake a lot of people talk about that did
2:24:14he talk about that I mean he told me
2:24:17that he believed that the only reason
2:24:19that those two had still been doing it
2:24:20as long as they've been doing he told
2:24:23me that her and him have had
2:24:25communication issues for about six years
2:24:29where she just seems really like
2:24:31detached and uninterested in like trying
2:24:34to like build something with him
2:24:38um and he said and I said six years is a
2:24:42really long time for you guys to not fix
2:24:44that considering they were married for
2:24:46what eight I mean that's like the
2:24:48majority of their marriage
2:24:50and he said um sometimes I think we just
2:24:54do it for the kids or something like
2:24:55that I mean it's been a long time since
2:24:57I had some of these conversations so I
2:24:58don't know like verba but but it was
2:25:00pretty much just like get you to
2:25:02remember some yeah like but he said it
2:25:04wasn't just him though he was like I
2:25:06think she does that too you know I mean
2:25:09and it was like this equal part where
2:25:11they were just kind of like going
2:25:14through the motions I think MH and so
2:25:17like when he told me that she was cool
2:25:19with like the 50 % everything and just
2:25:21like breaking it off and being really
2:25:24civil about it it it kind of made sense
2:25:26to me cuz I was like the way he made
2:25:28this sound it wasn't oh she's this
2:25:30horrible person or oh I'm this horrible
2:25:32person it was her and I have DFT did so
2:25:35far apart that it's kind of a mutual
2:25:37agreement that this not going to work so
2:25:39in those six years though they had two
2:25:41children yep um and you said earlier you
2:25:45did not know she was pregnant until
2:25:46reading the newspaper yep so um that
2:25:50never came up in any
2:25:52conversation um there was
2:25:54no no indications that that was going on
2:25:58N um he never hinted to anything like
2:26:00that as far as you knew um he was just
2:26:04leaving her he had two children and um
2:26:08that was the final take on that yes I
2:26:12think I know why he lied to me he lied
2:26:14to me because if I have known that he
2:26:16had a child on the way I'd never waste
2:26:18my time with him in the first place like
2:26:20none of this would ever even occurred if
2:26:21he would have just told me the truth so
2:26:24do you think if he found out that you
2:26:27um if let's say this week you guys were
2:26:31to go look at some apartments and this
2:26:32is hypothetical but you
2:26:36um you've never found out that his wife
2:26:39was
2:26:41pregnant would would that have changed
2:26:44anything uh like you just said if I knew
2:26:47he was his wife was pregnant I wouldn't
2:26:48be in this picture so if his wife was
2:26:52not pregnant um and forgive me but if if
2:26:56if he takes her out of the picture you
2:26:58never going to know that she was
2:26:59pregnant
2:27:01right what do you mean takes her out the
2:27:03picture like if he murdered her she's
2:27:05out of the picture you're never going to
2:27:07know if she was pregnant if he can get
2:27:09away with
2:27:11murder you're not going I got divorced
2:27:13from my wife see do you understand what
2:27:15I'm saying here if if she's gone but
2:27:18this don't leave hypothetically please
2:27:22hypthetically if she you understand
2:27:25where I'm going if you didn't know
2:27:27you're leading into questions that are
2:27:29nothing with your if you didn't know
2:27:31though wait
2:27:32Nick that she was there did you hear
2:27:34what I said I'm not I'm following you I
2:27:36just want her to answer a question that
2:27:38relates to she said something that's
2:27:41important that if he didn't have a child
2:27:44on the way or if he didn't if she didn't
2:27:47know that she would have continued to
2:27:50relationship right but he killed his
2:27:52kids at what point does he think that
2:27:54I'm going to be in relation I'm not
2:27:55talking about the children I'm just
2:27:57talking specifically about her if and if
2:28:02if you only knew if the kids were still
2:28:04here and he called you and said I'm
2:28:06divorced from My Wife and he gets away
2:28:10with
2:28:11this do you understand what I'm thinking
2:28:14from his aspect I still wouldn't do it I
2:28:17still wouldn't do it cuz I'd be like
2:28:19where did she go
2:28:20okay because I'm under the impression
2:28:23that she's a really good mom like he
2:28:26never bashed her mom in skills like he
2:28:30no no I wouldn't no okay no and that's
2:28:34that you see where I'm trying to take
2:28:35that yes so he never you guys never had
2:28:39a conversation about the child period I
2:28:42didn't know at all all right and by your
2:28:46words if you did know you would have
2:28:48ended the relationship well because it
2:28:50wouldn't have made sense to me that he's
2:28:51like I'm getting separated oh by the way
2:28:54I have a baby on the way it's like you
2:28:57are liar you're just trying to sleep
2:28:59with me that's what I would have
2:29:01probably interpreted that as and I'd
2:29:02have just shut that off at work and that
2:29:04would have been the end of it okay um
2:29:07all right we can move past that um
2:29:12the week that he comes back from North
2:29:14Carolina you you don't remember
2:29:16somewhere in the first couple weeks of
2:29:17August yeah I think it was the second
2:29:19week but I don't remember top my head so
2:29:21we'll just use August as a time frame is
2:29:24that fair because you know he left in
2:29:25July and he comes back in August how
2:29:28many times do you think you see him I
2:29:30saw him a few times I saw him this past
2:29:33Saturday I saw him the Wednesday before
2:29:35that and he wanted to see me more I was
2:29:38the one who wanted my space I was like
2:29:40nope your kids are home go hang out with
2:29:42your kids and even on Wednesday I cut it
2:29:44short like he came and hang out with me
2:29:46for a few hours and then I was like go
2:29:48chill with your kids
2:29:50um I was always like you know
2:29:52specifically where you guys went did you
2:29:55meet at your house did you guys go to
2:29:57any restaurants did you go to
2:29:58establishments um last
2:30:01Wednesday he came to my house and this
2:30:05past Saturday we went to um what's the
2:30:08name of that bar that we used to go to
2:30:11it's not the same the lazy dog but it's
2:30:12the one off of 144th and I 25 I think
2:30:16it's 144th up there and it's the lazy
2:30:19dog yes
2:30:21um did he ever mention a Rockies game
2:30:24that
2:30:25night um no I don't think so but there
2:30:29was a there was a
2:30:32um the Broncos were playing okay which
2:30:35we couldn't see because they sat us some
2:30:37really crappy spots but it's okay
2:30:38because it's preseason but um so you do
2:30:42you recall what time you went
2:30:46there no I remember well kind of so he
2:30:49had get a babysitter that night did you
2:30:51know who that was uh somebody who's
2:30:54really young I remember I asked him who
2:30:56his babysitter was and he's like we have
2:30:57two this girl's only 17 but the other
2:31:00one's out of town so this girl's going
2:31:02to stay and she doesn't do overnights so
2:31:05I got to be back by 10: and I remember
2:31:07her saying that and him saying that and
2:31:09I I don't know what time he got to my
2:31:11house it was between I want to say like
2:31:135:30 it might have been five but I don't
2:31:15think so cuz I think the babysitter if I
2:31:17remember correctly showed up at like
2:31:194:30 or something and he was like I want
2:31:21to spend time getting my kids acclimated
2:31:24to her and then I will come so her CH
2:31:26his children didn't even know her oh no
2:31:28they knew her but he was saying like he
2:31:30likes to like stay there for a little
2:31:32while while he doesn't just like walk
2:31:34out the door when they show up it's like
2:31:35a transitional thing and so um that's
2:31:39why I'm saying I don't know how long I
2:31:40was I want to say like 5:30 and then he
2:31:42had to be back by 10: so he left at like
2:31:449 something to be back by 10:00 so he
2:31:47picked you up or was he driving no he
2:31:49didn't pick me up he came to my house we
2:31:51drove my truck okay so you he gets to
2:31:55your house do you know what he was
2:31:55driving to get to your house um off the
2:31:58top of my head I don't remember um I'm
2:32:01pretty sure he usually drives that Lexus
2:32:04but he doesn't always park it in my
2:32:06complex cuz the parking there's not good
2:32:09spaces so where you guys pick me up at a
2:32:11lot of times he'll just park out there
2:32:13because there's room okay um so that
2:32:16kind of works so that he's cuz there's
2:32:18just not a lot of room in my apartment
2:32:20complex um but off the top of my head I
2:32:22don't know what he was driving what kind
2:32:24of truck do you drive I drive a uh
2:32:27Toyota Forerunner okay so you guys take
2:32:29your Forerunner to the lazy dog yep and
2:32:33you said they sat you in crappy location
2:32:37where were you inside the we were when
2:32:39you walk in you just hang a right and we
2:32:40were like one of the first two booths on
2:32:42the right when you walk in the door you
2:32:44just it's just not a good it's a good
2:32:45spot but just not for the TVs and we
2:32:47actually went to the other Lazy Dog we
2:32:49went to the one that you and me go to
2:32:50where's that at Federal
2:32:52andth it's 120th in federal and we went
2:32:55there and they have a different menu and
2:32:58I was like I don't want to eat this food
2:33:01so we should go to the other one so
2:33:02initially you go to the 120th location
2:33:04did you actually get
2:33:06seated uh kind of sort of they were like
2:33:08cleaning off a table and we were
2:33:09standing there just kind of looking at
2:33:11the beer menu and the food menu and I
2:33:13was like I don't want this and so we
2:33:14left 6:00 probably somewhere around
2:33:17there 6 6:30 and then we left left and
2:33:20went to the other one and we ate dinner
2:33:24and you're in like first or second Booth
2:33:25right to the right of the door I'm just
2:33:27asking because if they have video we
2:33:29want to be able to verify that so that's
2:33:31why it's important um and you're there
2:33:34for how long I don't know probably we
2:33:37didn't stay for dessert so I don't know
2:33:39how long's the restaurant take like an
2:33:40hour and a half I've never been to the
2:33:42lazy dog I know probably about an hour
2:33:44and a half and then uh we went back to
2:33:47my house for a little bit hung out at my
2:33:49house um for a little while and then he
2:33:51had to leave and then he left did you
2:33:54recall what time you
2:33:55left I was out my head no I remember he
2:33:59was like going to be late to be back at
2:34:0110: I think there's a text message where
2:34:03he starts texting me when he's home at
2:34:05his house okay so you can probably
2:34:07figure that out and I remember I texted
2:34:09him back and I was like damn that was
2:34:11quick or wow that was really quick he's
2:34:12like yeah I even had time to stop at the
2:34:14ATM or stop at the gas station stop
2:34:16somewhere to get money to pay the
2:34:18babysitter okay
2:34:20um and I was just like thinking like
2:34:22well that was really fast um but I think
2:34:25he was still like a little late coming
2:34:27back but nothing too drastic so he
2:34:28probably left my house like somewhere
2:34:30around
2:34:319:30ish all right and you know he go
2:34:35straight home he text you um well I was
2:34:38already home right no he text you he
2:34:40goes straight home from your house and
2:34:42he text you that he's home so that
2:34:43should be in your text message it should
2:34:45be I'm pretty positive that was not a
2:34:46phone call I'm almost positive that was
2:34:48a text sometimes I get them flipflop or
2:34:50I don't remember but sometimes I know
2:34:52I'm pretty sure that one was a text
2:34:55Saturday during your dinner um what kind
2:34:58of conversation did you guys
2:35:01have I I don't even remember oh I uh so
2:35:08he's been trying to like eat a little
2:35:10healthier than he normally does and he's
2:35:13always like been in the workingout since
2:35:14I knew him and he like tries to eat
2:35:17clean but he was trying to like step it
2:35:21up a little bit and nothing like the
2:35:23people who do like the competitions and
2:35:24the shows that are all super restrictive
2:35:26it was nothing like that it's just like
2:35:28day-to-day general maintenance but it's
2:35:29how I eat and it's pretty healthy and um
2:35:33he's been losing a lot of weight he
2:35:37lost I want to say like 13 lbs in the
2:35:40time that we were hanging out and
2:35:42honestly when you start eating a little
2:35:44bit cleaner and you start working out a
2:35:45little bit harder the first couple
2:35:48months especially for a man cuz they
2:35:50lose weight
2:35:51faster it's not something that's like
2:35:54that drastic to me but it did stand out
2:35:57that it was like a little much and so I
2:35:58was like whoa like maybe you're not
2:36:01eating
2:36:02enough macronutrients so let me look at
2:36:05them so he had been working on his my
2:36:08fitness p app and like programming like
2:36:10all stuff he e and I just started going
2:36:12through them and I was like trying to
2:36:14figure out like where his ratios were
2:36:17and we actually spent a lot of time
2:36:18doing that cuz you'd ask to do it for
2:36:20him um because I just was at the point
2:36:22where I was like if his weight loss
2:36:25slows down in a few weeks he'll be fine
2:36:28and if it doesn't then his macros are a
2:36:30little off it's not like that big of a
2:36:32deal like in the workout Community this
2:36:34is like a very normal thing but you have
2:36:35any other outside concerns like
2:36:38potential drug use alcohol use any of
2:36:40that stuff that that led you to go you
2:36:43lost extreme amount of weight in such a
2:36:45short period of time no and I wouldn't
2:36:47call it extreme it was just like
2:36:50it it was it was a lot but I mean when I
2:36:52first started working out I dropped like
2:36:5412 pounds in two weeks when I first
2:36:56first started like hitting it hard with
2:36:58the diet so the fact that he lost like
2:37:01that much weight it wasn't like I said
2:37:04it was it was not a surprising amount I
2:37:07just didn't want it to be like a
2:37:08sustained amount but no I didn't think
2:37:10anything weird of it just because of
2:37:12like how in knitted I am with the like
2:37:15workout community and I know like this
2:37:18is possible but it just
2:37:20he the thing that concerned me about it
2:37:22I guess and it wasn't even concerned but
2:37:23the thing that like kind of redlighted
2:37:25me like hey this might be carrying on is
2:37:28the fact that his macros were like
2:37:31pretty dialed in like I had wrote them
2:37:34and he like didn't stay exactly on them
2:37:36but his calorie intake was about where
2:37:38it needed to be my experience anyways
2:37:41for
2:37:42like what he was trying to achieve and
2:37:45so I don't know he didn't seem to have a
2:37:48problem with it he liked where he was at
2:37:50with all of that so that was your main
2:37:52conversation Saturday that was like a
2:37:54big chunk while we were there is like us
2:37:56actually going through because I was
2:37:57like going through each item like why do
2:37:59you have why are your ratios off you
2:38:02know where his kids or wife were that
2:38:05night on Saturday yeah his kid well you
2:38:07know his kids are with the babysitter do
2:38:09you know where his wife is she's in
2:38:10Arizona okay how do you know that cuz he
2:38:13told me okay you know what she's doing
2:38:15there I think she's on a business trip
2:38:18he didn't even tell me right away he
2:38:19actually told me I think like on
2:38:21Saturday or something it might have been
2:38:23like Friday or something I don't I
2:38:25honestly don't remember I just remember
2:38:27I was like really surprised where he's
2:38:28like hey like I'm going to try to get a
2:38:31babysitter if you want to hang out or
2:38:33something like that and I was like why
2:38:34do you need a babysitter like your
2:38:36wife's home he's like no she's out of
2:38:37town I like oh okay okay is there much
2:38:40conversation regarding that her on being
2:38:43on a trip or the children on during
2:38:46those conversations not really I just
2:38:48asked him what time she was coming home
2:38:49on Sunday and he just said really late
2:38:52okay and that was it I mean there's
2:38:54nothing really to talk about with that
2:38:57so your conversation's mainly health
2:39:00related um you guys return to your house
2:39:03and then he goes home and then you
2:39:05talked to him for um a few hours on
2:39:09Sunday did I are you asking me or you
2:39:12talking I'm asking you oh I was like I
2:39:15don't even know someday honestly oh on
2:39:18so wait a minute that was Saturday this
2:39:20is the we're talking about Saturday
2:39:21we're not talking about Sunday right now
2:39:23okay so you're still on Saturday yes you
2:39:24guys have a phone conversation when he
2:39:26gets home that was the day that he got
2:39:28the babysitter and I went out to dinner
2:39:29not Sunday okay okay sorry I just want
2:39:31to make sure you got your days right so
2:39:33Saturday yes we went out he had the
2:39:34babysitter he went home I'm sure we did
2:39:37we always talk on the phone and honestly
2:39:39I mean Mark asked me that the other day
2:39:40he's like how long are you on the phone
2:39:4115 minutes 20 minutes like you're going
2:39:43to have to look at the records to be
2:39:45honest with you like I so much you like
2:39:47to talk I can tell a little bit yeah
2:39:50oh 400 when she was young she crank out
2:39:54about 400 words a minute gusts up to
2:39:58600 oh man you're a talker so I'm I'm
2:40:01letting you talk I need to use a
2:40:03restroom if I can let me show you where
2:40:04it's at some water while you're out
2:40:06there with me please thank you another
2:40:08bottle let at least one let's move to
2:40:12Sunday well let me reverse something
2:40:15your conversation with the children or
2:40:17about the children was there ever talk
2:40:20about medical concerns with either of
2:40:22the children well I know CCE is allergic
2:40:26to PE not peanuts like pine nuts pine
2:40:32nuts so she has a nut allergy yes did
2:40:34they take meds I know that she had like
2:40:37an EpiPen but as far as I know she
2:40:39didn't have any meds but I never asked
2:40:40like I was just told like she has a
2:40:43pretty severe allergy and enough to
2:40:46carry an epy pen that's pretty severe
2:40:48yeah while we're on this so when he was
2:40:50in North
2:40:51Carolina
2:40:53um this is all like hearsay now because
2:40:56it's like this is not a conversation
2:40:58like he's telling me this stuff but who
2:41:00knows exactly what happened but he went
2:41:02out there to go see his family and her
2:41:04family and while he was in town before
2:41:07he went out to North Carolina I guess
2:41:09his mother had accidentally like not
2:41:13exposed her to something with nuts but
2:41:17had like given a product I think it was
2:41:20like ice cream to a different kid that
2:41:23could have traces of nuts or something I
2:41:25don't know but it was like his daughter
2:41:28was fine but she was like in the range
2:41:30of
2:41:31contamination and I think his wife was
2:41:35very upset about that and when he got to
2:41:37North Carolina he told me that he was
2:41:40supposed to spend like half time with
2:41:42them half the time with her family and
2:41:43that was supposed to be what it was I
2:41:45don't know but he said that he went to
2:41:48go see his family and they weren't
2:41:50answering the phone for like a day or
2:41:51two before he went out there and then
2:41:53when he got there there was a note on
2:41:54the door that said uh son if you step by
2:41:57were at the
2:41:58beach and they ignored him for like most
2:42:02of the time that he was out there and
2:42:04his own family yes his mom his dad his
2:42:08sister what's the significance do you
2:42:10know do you know why yeah he said and
2:42:13again I don't know what is true with
2:42:14this man anymore and what's not but he
2:42:16told me that like leading up to it I was
2:42:19like well why are your folks like
2:42:21ignoring you and I was like really
2:42:22concerned about this like every single
2:42:24day he would talk to me when he was out
2:42:25there and I was like you talk to your
2:42:27family today he talked to your family
2:42:28today did you talk to your dad what
2:42:29happened did you talk to him no I didn't
2:42:31or yeah I talked to my mom well what'
2:42:33she say are you going to hang out with
2:42:34them like I wanted him to see his people
2:42:37because it's important family is an
2:42:39important thing you know it just needs
2:42:41to function properly and and so I was
2:42:44like
2:42:45well
2:42:47um and he was like well they're ignoring
2:42:50me and I was like what do you think
2:42:51happened and he's like I'm not really
2:42:52sure but I
2:42:53think um something was said between my
2:42:57wife and them during that incident and
2:43:00he's like because every time yes that
2:43:02happened before he got there yes and
2:43:04he's like because every time that I try
2:43:06to
2:43:08um I talk about possibly going over
2:43:10there to see if they're
2:43:12home she gets upset about it and I was
2:43:15like okay and he told me that his mom
2:43:18and his wife did not get along at all he
2:43:20said that his mom didn't even show up to
2:43:22his
2:43:22wedding because she's like really did
2:43:25not care for shenan so again I don't
2:43:29know what's true and what's not but I
2:43:31just know that there was like some
2:43:32tension there and again like that part
2:43:36is like I feel like it's almost third
2:43:37party so that's why it's like I didn't
2:43:39but it came from him to you so it's not
2:43:41it is something that I um is whether
2:43:44it's important or not we can validate
2:43:47that I I'm sure we will be having some
2:43:49conversations with family um you know it
2:43:52what does it mean I don't know um but
2:43:55yeah I don't know either but I just know
2:43:57maybe she yeah I don't know well and
2:43:59then um he ended up seeing them on the
2:44:02last like full day that he was there and
2:44:05they told him supposedly that she had
2:44:08gotten really upset and then screamed
2:44:10and yelled in front of his Chris's
2:44:13sister's kids that are very young and to
2:44:16his mom and to his dad and said like
2:44:18you're never going to see Chris again
2:44:19you're never going to see me you're
2:44:20never going to see the babies and just
2:44:22like threatened them and then like
2:44:23walked off and I guess that was the
2:44:26incident that happened prior to him
2:44:28coming out there and then she didn't
2:44:29tell him about it she just like Let It
2:44:33Go and then he just spent all week
2:44:34trying to figure out why his family was
2:44:36like not trying to be involved gota um
2:44:39so again I'm not sure that was like it
2:44:42just feels really third party so it's
2:44:43hard for me to like talk about because I
2:44:45don't know how much validation so beyond
2:44:49the the nut allergy for cc did you know
2:44:51of any other did she take meds that you
2:44:54know of other than carrying an EpiPen
2:44:56his kids or his wife no his children no
2:45:00and now well if you know anything about
2:45:02his wife's medical conditions if she had
2:45:04any no I've like read in the newspaper
2:45:06they keep saying oh she had medical
2:45:08conditions and I'm like is that a
2:45:09misprint are they talking about CeCe or
2:45:11is that just something else I don't know
2:45:13so you don't know anything about shenan
2:45:15having any kind of medical problems no
2:45:17okay
2:45:21C it's Saturday so there's a phone call
2:45:23Saturday night actually um from it can't
2:45:27be Saturday it had to be Sunday I wrote
2:45:29that down quickly Sunday
2:45:32night is there anything else you think
2:45:34let's let me just back up from that
2:45:36Saturday where you guys had a meal at
2:45:39the lazy dog to Prior for the six weeks
2:45:42that you guys were serious and um
2:45:46although your Dad's here and I think
2:45:47you're probably pretty comfortable your
2:45:49relationship with Chris was can you
2:45:52describe your
2:45:54relationship I mean when he was with me
2:45:56I considered it to be fairly healthy was
2:45:58open
2:46:00communication and it was what I thought
2:46:03was
2:46:04honest and it was very calm it was
2:46:08respectful uh we got along really well
2:46:11he gave me my space when I needed it I
2:46:13gave him his and anytime like he wanted
2:46:16to take care of it like anytime that his
2:46:18kids could be in like his life for hours
2:46:22or days or whatever whenever they were
2:46:24home I made sure that I wasn't a
2:46:26presence in his life so that he could be
2:46:28the best dad that he needed to be um and
2:46:31I mean I thought what we had it was very
2:46:35comfortable for me I enjoyed it I think
2:46:37he did very much as well you guys you
2:46:41six eight weeks two month whatever it
2:46:43was you guys have an intimate
2:46:44relationship during that time yes okay
2:46:48so you're you're pretty serious um did
2:46:51he ever tell you that he loved you yes
2:46:53he did did you ever tell him the same a
2:46:55couple times okay um not withstanding
2:46:59that today because that may those
2:47:01thoughts may have changed for you but on
2:47:04let's go mon Sunday into Monday or
2:47:07Monday did you did you still love him on
2:47:10those days I think it was something
2:47:12where it was like I I said it a few
2:47:14times and I meant it but he definitely
2:47:17felt the urge to say it to me a lot more
2:47:20than I did to him because it was just
2:47:21all very new to me and I was like take
2:47:24your time with this like you don't need
2:47:27to to like Rush that you know like I
2:47:30remember when he was in North Carolina
2:47:32and he was like trying to patch things
2:47:33up with his wife and he told me he love
2:47:35me and I was like don't say that to me
2:47:37like please go try to fit and I mean and
2:47:40that might even be in the text to words
2:47:41it's like don't don't like don't say
2:47:43those words to me and then go try to
2:47:45make peace with your wife and lay in bed
2:47:47with another woman like just don't do
2:47:50that and I was like it's not that I
2:47:51don't appreciate what you're saying to
2:47:53me it's like
2:47:55just it just didn't sit right for me you
2:47:58know so I just feel like almost like an
2:47:59insecurity where he had to say that to
2:48:02you or I I don't know I think he he
2:48:06like looking back at all this now I
2:48:08don't think he was trying to fix things
2:48:10with her so saying I love you to me seem
2:48:12like probably something that he
2:48:14genuinely meant like I love this woman
2:48:17and regardless of where he was going to
2:48:19end up that night but to me in the way
2:48:22that I was perceiving things he had told
2:48:24me that he was trying to fix things with
2:48:26her so it's just like this is an
2:48:27inappropriate time and I wasn't mad at
2:48:29him and I'm pretty sure that's in the
2:48:30text too where it was very like calm but
2:48:33it's just like it's almost disrespectful
2:48:35where it's like please don't I'm like
2:48:36you know if we get to that point where
2:48:38it is you and me like yes you can say
2:48:41that but don't not them like that's so
2:48:45you thought he was very genuine when he
2:48:47said that I yeah I did I mean and he
2:48:50wrote it it's in all those cards I gave
2:48:52you not in all of them but like the
2:48:55later on and thank you when you said it
2:48:59to him you said you meant it when you
2:49:00said it yes I just didn't say as
2:49:02frequent as he said it like sometimes he
2:49:04would say it and I was just like for me
2:49:07it was still like very very new so I
2:49:08kind of like took my time and only said
2:49:10it when I was just like this is really
2:49:12important moment so you got I mean in
2:49:14the short period of time that you guys
2:49:16were together he yes became very
2:49:19attached to you yes very very attached
2:49:22he's sending cards flowers he's telling
2:49:24you he loves you he sends you flowers
2:49:27does he buy you any other gifts Noe I
2:49:29wouldn't have wanted them anyways it's
2:49:30flowers is enough you can't I don't need
2:49:32expensive stuff but he becomes very
2:49:35attached yes um you guys are talking
2:49:38multiple times a day at least you're all
2:49:42you're seeing each other on a regular
2:49:44basis um so it's a very uh and his wife
2:49:49is not around nor are his children so
2:49:51there's a lot of time for you guys to
2:49:53build your relationship in this first
2:49:55four four weeks or so is that fair yeah
2:49:58and even when she she was back I mean it
2:50:00was still like we were still spending
2:50:02time together he was still spending time
2:50:04with his children and I had my own life
2:50:06like I mean there was one week where I
2:50:08just like went out of town for my with
2:50:09my friends for my birthday I wasn't even
2:50:11around the whole
2:50:13like last few days of June up until the
2:50:173rd of July I was like gone you know and
2:50:19then there was another like a last
2:50:21weekend I had a friend impromptu come in
2:50:24town from out of state and I hosted her
2:50:26uh for a few days and it's like
2:50:30it like I still did my own thing all the
2:50:33time like whether he was there not like
2:50:35if my friends were like hey we want to
2:50:36make plans I would tell him like we're
2:50:38not hanging out today cuz I want to go
2:50:39see my mom or my dad did your friends
2:50:42know about him nope
2:50:45why cuz it's like he's with two women
2:50:49right now they don't need to know about
2:50:51them so if you had a boyfriend of four
2:50:53to eight weeks on a regular I don't know
2:50:56if you were married prior or if you had
2:50:58a boyfriend before but if you had a
2:51:01steady boyfriend you would have let
2:51:03people know I think you told me before
2:51:05we got started that you you just told
2:51:07your dad about Chris I wouldn't have
2:51:10told them I wouldn't have told people
2:51:11it's too early I mean people so you
2:51:13don't tell your friends hey I got people
2:51:16come and go I mean dating scen these
2:51:18days is just like it sucks I mean so no
2:51:21I wouldn't I mean it would have to be
2:51:22something even with Sean I think I was
2:51:25with Sean for probably like six or seven
2:51:27months before I brought him home to my
2:51:29family I mean I really same with that
2:51:31was the guy I was in a previous
2:51:32relationship with but I mean but this
2:51:34one you were a little bit more you said
2:51:36he's with two women did that was that
2:51:39one of your considerations for not
2:51:40telling anybody about him yes well I
2:51:42mean it was like okay like this to me it
2:51:46wasn't going to be an extended thing
2:51:47like if it got to the point where we
2:51:49were like dating for like 3 or 4 months
2:51:51and he's still talking about oh I'm
2:51:53going to move out and I'm going to sell
2:51:54the house I think at that point I
2:51:56probably would have just been like I
2:51:57don't think you're really like doing
2:51:59these things you say you're going to do
2:52:02and I probably would have just like left
2:52:05because at that point it's not fair it
2:52:07wasn't fair to me in the first place it
2:52:08wasn't fair to her in the first place it
2:52:10wasn't fair to any of us in the first
2:52:12place you know it wasn't fair to his
2:52:14family for him to have an affair it
2:52:18wasn't fair to me to have him lie to me
2:52:21and make me think that everything is
2:52:24going to plan and still to this day I
2:52:26don't even know what's a lie and what's
2:52:27not I don't even know if they were like
2:52:28filing for divorce I don't know if they
2:52:30were putting the house up I don't even
2:52:32know I don't even know anymore what is
2:52:35real and what is not but what I do know
2:52:37is it's just like you know that wasn't
2:52:38fair to me either because if I had have
2:52:41known not even all the truth but like
2:52:44obviously some of it I wouldn't have
2:52:46even engaged in any of this in the first
2:52:48place and just I mean and that's the
2:52:50part for me just like on my personal
2:52:53level outside of everything that is
2:52:55happening
2:52:57that is going to affect me long term
2:53:01it's like you know I'm going to wake up
2:53:02every day and know that like this mom
2:53:05and her unborn child and these two
2:53:07little girls are not around anymore and
2:53:09it breaks my heart it is so oh my God
2:53:13and
2:53:15any and then I have to think about like
2:53:17the consequence
2:53:19of his actions and how they affect
2:53:21everybody else like all of these her
2:53:23family is impacted my name is about to
2:53:26be like slandered for probably a while I
2:53:29don't know how long it's going to take
2:53:30to heal but I would not be surprised if
2:53:33it's going to be hard to go out in
2:53:34public sometimes for a couple of years
2:53:35and that really hurts me I'm just like
2:53:37this is a horrible horrible thing like
2:53:39how dare you you know and and people
2:53:41aren't going to understand that you know
2:53:44they're going to say oh you know you're
2:53:46the woman that had an affair with this
2:53:48man who took out his whole family and I
2:53:51take a step back and it's just
2:53:54like I didn't know like I
2:53:59I
2:54:01it's he's so disgusting I'm so ashamed
2:54:04of him and everything and I
2:54:09just all those little
2:54:13girls they're so little they're so
2:54:16little we talked to
2:54:19we talked a little bit earlier about
2:54:21getting some help for these things and
2:54:23we can provide
2:54:26that at at really no cost through the
2:54:30one more can we just want to make sure
2:54:32uh there's resolution that's why we come
2:54:35to you guys to pound this and pound it
2:54:38down there's nothing I'm sorry that
2:54:40you're talking again today I really am I
2:54:42don't want to put you through any more
2:54:44trauma than you've already been through
2:54:46there is um
2:54:49reasons for everything that we're doing
2:54:52today and what occurred and I'm sorry I
2:54:55genuinely am sorry I it these are not
2:54:57things that we like to do twice it's the
2:55:00same thing with other types of victims
2:55:01from other crimes we want to do it once
2:55:03and we want to be done unfortunately we
2:55:05didn't know yesterday um what we know
2:55:07today and that's why we're here because
2:55:09we need this video and I'm I am sorry
2:55:12because I know it's hard to talk about
2:55:14it it's so sad and she's pregnant
2:55:20and you know on our end we didn't God
2:55:23they're so cute they're so little like
2:55:27why why why why why how I don't even
2:55:31understand how you could like bring
2:55:33yourself to do that somebody who's like
2:55:35that big
2:56:02oh Jesus take a
2:56:06minute do you want to step out for a
2:56:08minute no I just need to chill with my
2:56:10eyes closed for a
2:56:15sec I still cannot believe this is
2:56:17happening
2:56:24all right let's keep going because we're
2:56:26just getting to like the meat of this
2:56:28whole situ let's get to the phone call
2:56:30on Saturday from 9:00 to 11: what did
2:56:33you guys or pardon me on Sunday from 9:
2:56:35to
2:56:3611: yeah we talked a few times
2:56:40so Sunday I think so I need to think I
2:56:44can't even think take a couple breaths
2:56:46and take it take a second
2:56:50Sunday
2:56:52night I don't even know I don't think I
2:56:55was like concerned about anything at
2:56:56that point you guys had had a meal next
2:57:00meal the night before you knew his wife
2:57:01was probably coming home late that
2:57:03evening oh um you know
2:57:06what I still don't remember what we
2:57:08talked about I like honestly like we
2:57:10talk about so much random stuff like
2:57:11it's so hard to pinpoint some of these
2:57:14things um I don't remember what we
2:57:17talked about I do remember that was a
2:57:18long fil conversation that we probably
2:57:20talked about all sorts of stuff um one
2:57:22thing I do remember though um that I
2:57:25didn't remember earlier when I was
2:57:26talking to Mark so this is like where
2:57:28I'm starting to remember like little
2:57:30bits and pieces I I don't remember yeah
2:57:32I know so the phone
2:57:34conversation I don't know it was in the
2:57:36phone conversation probably nothing of
2:57:38relevance to be honest with you but um
2:57:41usually he talks to me when he's like
2:57:44down in the basement in his bed before
2:57:45he goes to bed and before I go to bed
2:57:48and I could hear the TV on which I
2:57:50thought was kind of weird I didn't ask
2:57:52him I just heard it in the background
2:57:54and I remember thinking and it was like
2:57:55right before we got off the phone I was
2:57:57like why the hell is he up and there's
2:57:59like no TV downstairs so I was like well
2:58:01maybe I don't know no TV in the basement
2:58:03where he usually calls you from yeah and
2:58:05I don't know how many TVs they have like
2:58:07I've never been in their bedroom like I
2:58:09went upstairs once and it was like to
2:58:11their little playroom and I just like
2:58:12looked at it and I was like that's super
2:58:14cute that your girls have books and that
2:58:16was like it and other than than that I
2:58:18have never been in any of those rooms in
2:58:20that upstairs like to me it was just
2:58:22like you don't know like ever I had no
2:58:25so I don't know if he has any other TVs
2:58:27I'm assuming by like how much other nice
2:58:29stuff they have in their house it
2:58:30wouldn't surprise me so I'm not quite
2:58:32sure what room he was in at that point
2:58:35um but I just remember hearing the TV
2:58:38and I was like it was just weird to me
2:58:41cuz I was like why are you watching TV
2:58:43right now it is like super late and that
2:58:46was the only thing he had phoned you or
2:58:50were you guys already talking when the
2:58:52TV was going or I just remember like I
2:58:55like picked up on it like later but I
2:58:59don't think it was like throughout the
2:59:01whole conversation like I just remember
2:59:03it being towards the end cuz I remember
2:59:05thinking like wow it's really
2:59:07late the um somebody didn't ask you
2:59:10about the house because you'd been there
2:59:11twice and it just made me remember do
2:59:14you remember how you guys accessed the
2:59:16house
2:59:18uh that's a good question uh
2:59:22so once through the
2:59:25garage and I think once through the
2:59:27front door I think the first time was
2:59:30through the front door I think and I
2:59:32think the second time was through the
2:59:34garage is there anything unique about
2:59:36either of the doors when you went into
2:59:38the house
2:59:40that might not be typical of another
2:59:43house like a unique door you know they
2:59:46have a camera on their door there's a
2:59:48camera on the which door it's on the
2:59:50front door isn't it um I don't know I'm
2:59:52asking I think so uh I don't know
2:59:56um was did he use a key to access the
3:00:00house no
3:00:03um he did not the first time I went over
3:00:06there
3:00:07he just let me in and then the second
3:00:10time do we go through the garage I don't
3:00:12remember I've been through his garage
3:00:14before I went through his front door
3:00:16once though cuz I remember he just
3:00:18cleaned it was the first time I went
3:00:19through his front door cuz he had just
3:00:21cleaned his carpets and he had moved all
3:00:23the furniture out of the way and the
3:00:24furniture was kind of in the way of the
3:00:26door and he's like the door doesn't open
3:00:28all the way right now I'll move all the
3:00:30furniture back when the carpet dries so
3:00:32I do remember that just kind of
3:00:34offhandedly uh and the second time I
3:00:36want to say we went through his garage
3:00:38cuz I remember his garage I remember
3:00:42yeah
3:00:43yeah so he was at the house when you
3:00:46went there um you were never there by
3:00:49yourself he was at or he took you there
3:00:52he the first time he was already there
3:00:54and I met up with him and the second
3:00:56time we went there together so the front
3:00:59door I asked if he could use the
3:01:01key he let me in okay so there's a um
3:01:06you know those keypads where you can
3:01:08enter access Cod do you remember seeing
3:01:10that on his door I like I want to say
3:01:12vaguely but to be honest with you I
3:01:13don't remember like he let me in that
3:01:15day that's that he never gave he never
3:01:17gave you the code to access his home no
3:01:20okay not at all um you talked about a
3:01:22security
3:01:23system uh there was a camera on the
3:01:26front door was that just like a you know
3:01:29what a ring doorbell is that goes to
3:01:31your phone I don't even know what it
3:01:33look like I only know that it existed
3:01:36either because a I wasn't paying
3:01:37attention the first time I was over
3:01:38there but B because of all the stuff
3:01:40that's going on right now that's the
3:01:41only reason I you remember seeing any
3:01:43cameras anywhere in the house no okay
3:01:47did he ever tell you about the alarm
3:01:48system or give you an access code to the
3:01:50alarm system no I wouldn't have asked
3:01:52for that I wouldn't have wanted that
3:01:53anyways sorry to regress to that no
3:01:56you're okay go back to the the phone
3:01:58call or where you notice the television
3:02:01in the background of the phone call Y so
3:02:03I didn't know what room he was in but I
3:02:05was just like I just thought it was
3:02:06weird cuz he's always like before I go
3:02:09to bed and I lay down he's always like
3:02:11kind of trying to do the same thing we
3:02:13just talk it's like a really chill thing
3:02:14till one of us was about to pass out and
3:02:17then that's like the end of it um but it
3:02:19was strange cuz I was like the TV on I
3:02:21remember I was thinking I was like maybe
3:02:22he's waiting up for her and then I was
3:02:24like maybe not I didn't know I didn't it
3:02:28wasn't something that like alerted me it
3:02:30was just different from his standard
3:02:32operating procedure because whether his
3:02:35wife is home or she's gone he's always
3:02:38got kind of like the standard op when he
3:02:40calls me so that's why it was kind of
3:02:44like unique because it doesn't really
3:02:47fluctuate when she's there and when
3:02:48she's not there he's pretty like free
3:02:50reign with what he
3:02:52does so anything anything important that
3:02:55you recall during that conversation
3:02:57about the children about his wife about
3:02:59what he was doing the next day what he
3:03:03had planned anything like that he tell
3:03:05you any of that information I remember
3:03:07he told me he had to go to the field and
3:03:09not to the office on Monday morning okay
3:03:12did he specifically say where he needed
3:03:13to go on Monday morning no I don't ask
3:03:15him for those sites there's like Anna
3:03:17darko's got like thousands of sites if
3:03:19he were to tell me I wouldn't I wouldn't
3:03:21even tell they just like random numbers
3:03:22and stuff right well he told me he said
3:03:24I got to go to a site I got to go um
3:03:27check out like a valve or something
3:03:29where they think that they had a release
3:03:31something like that um you mention the
3:03:32town or anywhere no no he just told me
3:03:36that that's what he had to go do he's
3:03:38like cuz yeah he was like I won't see
3:03:40you in the office in the morning cuz I
3:03:42usually I see him but I don't actually
3:03:43like talk to him like I will go in the
3:03:45cafeteria I will put my lunch in in the
3:03:48fridge and him and his whole team are
3:03:49sitting in there and I don't talk to any
3:03:50of them I just walk out um but anyways
3:03:54yeah he's like so I won't see them going
3:03:56to the field which is not an uncommon
3:03:58thing for the Ops guys to like just go
3:04:00straight to the field like it happens
3:04:02like typically they go to the office I
3:04:04would say
3:04:06like three or four days a week but there
3:04:08are days where him and his other team
3:04:11members are not there or like I'll get
3:04:12in there and some days the the cafeteria
3:04:15is packed and they're all there and
3:04:16other days I get in there and there's
3:04:17only like three or four of them so it
3:04:18didn't cause you any concern that he
3:04:20said I'm going to the field on Monday I
3:04:22won't see you that wasn't no that's
3:04:24happened before yeah I mean it wasn't
3:04:26something I mean and it's not just him
3:04:28it's like that whole team like you can
3:04:29just tell when they've got like a lot
3:04:30going on cuz I'll walk in and they'll be
3:04:32like two of them as opposed to like six
3:04:34or seven do you know what he did Sunday
3:04:36during the
3:04:36day
3:04:39um I don't even know what I did on
3:04:41Sunday during the day I am so tired let
3:04:44me just think about this Daniel came
3:04:46over Friday uh with him Saturday and
3:04:49then
3:04:53Sunday when did Jim come in
3:04:57Monday Jim got here
3:05:01Monday what did I do on
3:05:03Sunday I am like drawing a blank I'm
3:05:06really tired I don't know can I get back
3:05:09to you on that did you guys have any
3:05:11conversations on Saturday night during
3:05:12your meal what he might be doing on
3:05:15Sunday I'm sure we did I don't know why
3:05:18I'm drawing a blank because I haven't
3:05:19slept if I say that his he may have done
3:05:24something with his children with that
3:05:26yes memory he went to a birthday party
3:05:28okay um did you know whose house he was
3:05:30going to nope but I know that they had a
3:05:33water balloon
3:05:34fight okay he he had one or his children
3:05:38his children did he said he used to get
3:05:39really intoed he said he got like really
3:05:41interactive with his kids he's like some
3:05:42of the adults don't really spend a lot
3:05:43of time playing with the kids but went
3:05:45to the museum on what day Saturday or
3:05:46Sunday Sunday okay that's right so other
3:05:49was like was I hanging out with you God
3:05:52uh very memorable event huh we me and
3:05:55him and my my stepmother and my sister
3:05:58went to uh the museum and that's right
3:06:02uh the Denver Museum of Nature and
3:06:04Science and they went to brunch prior to
3:06:06that and I skipped brunch um and I went
3:06:10to the gym you shouldn't have it was
3:06:12good I had to do cord that was the last
3:06:14time I worked out actually um that's
3:06:16what we did Sunday okay yeah so C and
3:06:18then we went to the museum and
3:06:22then
3:06:24um when did you did he tell you about
3:06:28the water balloon fight on Sunday
3:06:30evening during your conversation on the
3:06:31phone I think so okay so you don't know
3:06:35whose house he went to on Sunday no um
3:06:38but you knew it was for a child's
3:06:39birthday yeah and he had told me about
3:06:41that in advance early so I don't know if
3:06:43it was Saturday that he had told me that
3:06:44he was going to go that birthday or like
3:06:46Friday I just remember he was like I got
3:06:48to go to this birthday party okay my
3:06:50kids um any other conversation that
3:06:53makes sense I mean honestly at this
3:06:56point I'm really tired so I know there
3:06:59are certain things that I need to tell
3:07:00you guys that we'll get to as these days
3:07:02progress um but in all honesty if it
3:07:06doesn't stand out to me now it probably
3:07:08wasn't relevant what about that 9:00
3:07:11thing you were telling me on Monday oh
3:07:14he told
3:07:15me oh yeah well we'll get there we'll
3:07:17get there we're still on Sunday so we're
3:07:18on Sunday we're going to get we're going
3:07:21to get long we're going to get there to
3:07:22Monday we're we're getting there so
3:07:25Sunday night or Sunday during the day
3:07:28you had your own personal um stuff going
3:07:31on with your family you never see him on
3:07:34Sunday is that accurate no I didn't see
3:07:37him what did I do the rest of the day I
3:07:38came
3:07:40home I think I might have just chilled
3:07:42at my house I don't remember I think I
3:07:45cleaned my house I don't know I didn't
3:07:47see him though
3:07:48okay and yeah Saturday was the last time
3:07:50I saw
3:07:51him okay Sunday you're at home you talk
3:07:55to him from we know you have a
3:07:57conversation in the late evening hours
3:07:59and then you go to
3:08:01sleep um on Sunday night when's the next
3:08:04time you talk with Chris probably Monday
3:08:07morning do you know what what time no I
3:08:10mean so we used to like randomly text
3:08:12each other like throughout the day but
3:08:14we both get really busy so some days
3:08:16like I don't hear a lot from him and
3:08:18some days I don't textt him until like
3:08:202:00 in the afternoon cuz I'm just like
3:08:22busy and I I remember I didn't hear a
3:08:25lot from him that day uh which was like
3:08:28that's not out of the normal for either
3:08:30one of us um during the day um but at
3:08:33one point I do remember he like texts me
3:08:35and he's like oh it's been a really busy
3:08:37day and then like said some other stuff
3:08:39which I'm sure you will find in my text
3:08:40what he said I don't know it wasn't
3:08:42obviously anything that was like
3:08:45alerting to me that's what I'm saying
3:08:47like at this point like I remember
3:08:48really key things but if it's like a
3:08:50conversation that I'm like I don't
3:08:51remember exactly what was discussed
3:08:53because it was probably just [ __ ]
3:08:55like just just talking to each other
3:08:57yeah small talk yeah
3:09:00um but I remember he was busy that day
3:09:02and we didn't talk that much and then
3:09:06I I clocked out at 3 is what my time
3:09:08card says that's what I was showing um
3:09:12Mark the other day and I got home to go
3:09:17meet my buddy one of my good friends was
3:09:19coming over my house and he actually has
3:09:21a key to my house so he was actually
3:09:23there when I got there and who's that my
3:09:27friend Jim um and so Jim came
3:09:30over
3:09:32and I got home he was there he had like
3:09:35just walked in the door and
3:09:39um I remember like briefly after he got
3:09:42there I checked my texts I mean briefly
3:09:45after I met up with Jim I like glanced
3:09:47my text and Chris said something about
3:09:51like my family's not home or like my
3:09:55wife and kids aren't home like something
3:09:58to that effect and I told Mark cuz he
3:10:01asked me for a time and I don't have an
3:10:03exact time but I remember it was like
3:10:05right after I walked in that was a text
3:10:07message though yeah it's in a text and
3:10:09it's like it was like briefly after I
3:10:11walked in the door so based off how long
3:10:13it takes me to get home from work and
3:10:14when I clocked out was probably about
3:10:153:45 p.m. um um texts me and tells me
3:10:19that and like he knows when I get off of
3:10:21work too so he doesn't always bug me if
3:10:22I'm busy so I don't know what's up with
3:10:26that but that's when he that's when he
3:10:28sends that to me and um so you're saying
3:10:31that he he would have known that you
3:10:32would have had your phone available to
3:10:34you and not been at work when he sent
3:10:36you that text message yes that's what
3:10:38I'm trying to say so looking back at it
3:10:39you think it was purposefully sent at
3:10:42that time oh I'm sure I'm just asking
3:10:45your feeling on that yes and and then he
3:10:47said call me when you can and I was
3:10:49there was no other communication between
3:10:51you and him that morning on Monday
3:10:53morning well there there was but it was
3:10:55like random but nothing about this event
3:10:58no no no no no no no no about like my
3:11:00mom my wife's missing or no my anything
3:11:04nothing okay nothing and you knew he
3:11:06wasn't coming to the office cuz he had
3:11:08told you that Sunday night yeah and then
3:11:10he goes and so like they're only in the
3:11:11office for the morning like some days
3:11:14it's longer than others but I would say
3:11:15by a maximum of :30 every single morning
3:11:18they are all gone and they don't come
3:11:20back unless they have like a meeting or
3:11:21something that they have to attend so
3:11:23like not seeing him for the rest of the
3:11:24day is not like an unnormal thing like
3:11:27like I'm saying like we don't really the
3:11:28only reason we interact was kind of like
3:11:30by an off chance thing like I don't work
3:11:33with him um so he uh yeah we talked like
3:11:38randomly throughout the day but it was
3:11:39really sporadic and he seemed pretty
3:11:41busy so we didn't talk too much like I
3:11:43said didn't put too much thought into it
3:11:45it happens all the time um waited till
3:11:47about 3:45 then sent that text to me and
3:11:50yes he does know that I will be home at
3:11:52that
3:11:52point or getting home like you give Mark
3:11:55Jim's
3:11:57information no I would really like not
3:11:59like to involve him in this he does not
3:12:01know about this he didn't he was not
3:12:05like he doesn't know any of this is
3:12:07occurring okay like I was literally he
3:12:09he knows certainly through the media
3:12:12that something's occurred yeah he's like
3:12:14out of town he's probably has no idea he
3:12:16doesn't know is like he's not I do not
3:12:19know so he's just a friend of yours yes
3:12:22um he does not coming to your apartment
3:12:25and doesn't know anything about Chris
3:12:28does he know anything about Chris
3:12:30nothing absolutely we've known Jim for
3:12:33he yeah years and years you're not
3:12:36dating him or anything like that no he's
3:12:37like one of my very good friends like my
3:12:39dad knows him he's a great guy he just
3:12:41he he works out of state a lot so when
3:12:44he's in town um we hang out but when
3:12:47he's in town and he's off of work to
3:12:49save time so I give him a key to my
3:12:51house one cuz I trust him and he's one
3:12:53of my best friends and
3:12:55two cuz uh sometimes he will just meet
3:12:58me there because I'll be like hey I'm
3:13:00getting off of work and then if I get
3:13:01stuck in traffic or something he ends up
3:13:03like sitting outside of my apartment
3:13:04waiting for me to get off of work so I'm
3:13:06like here's a key and like my dog loves
3:13:08him and stuff so no he's not involved
3:13:10with I don't even only reason I asked
3:13:13and I'm not really concerned about your
3:13:16location
3:13:17um I think we already have your cell
3:13:19phone records um at some point did Mark
3:13:22ask you to
3:13:23supply uh did they ask for consent to
3:13:26get cell phone records that'll probably
3:13:28be done by warrant if we want what you
3:13:30just did no what I'm talking about is
3:13:32your movement oh um by GPS or by cell
3:13:37phone tower to show where you were
3:13:41obviously and I don't want to cause you
3:13:43concern we want to know where you were
3:13:45that day too you're dating man who did
3:13:47some egregious stuff and we want to we
3:13:50want to show that you were never near
3:13:51him that day period I mean you guys can
3:13:54track my St no I mean that that was
3:13:56something we will have to get a warrant
3:13:58for anyways the I'm just saying if if we
3:14:01asked for it would you objections to
3:14:04that you can have it so um I'm a pretty
3:14:08boring person it sounds like you just
3:14:10went to work that day and then you came
3:14:11home and you're were there at 3:45 yeah
3:14:13like give or take like 5 minutes but
3:14:15yeah so 3:45
3:14:17I meet Jim there yeah I would so Jim is
3:14:20a understand from an investigative point
3:14:23he could be a person who could say yeah
3:14:25was there a 3:45 I don't he doesn't know
3:14:26Chris he doesn't know anything he could
3:14:29say with one phone yeah she came in at
3:14:303:45 done totally do you know what I'm
3:14:33saying and I don't have to ask anything
3:14:34more than hi Chris my name's Kevin
3:14:37I'm and I'm not saying you have to give
3:14:39it just leave Jim alone wrapped up in
3:14:42this if at some point I needed Jim's
3:14:44info to let's say we couldn't find your
3:14:46phone record would you tell you can have
3:14:48them I will give them to you would you
3:14:50tell me who Jim was if I if you had to I
3:14:52don't really want to involve him in this
3:14:53so it's not fair to him that's not no if
3:14:56I do not have to do that that's fine um
3:15:00yeah so anyways Chris was like call me
3:15:03and this is the 345 text yeah he sent me
3:15:06like a few there I think there was three
3:15:07of them and I don't remember what the
3:15:08other one said but something about like
3:15:10yeah my family's gone or I don't
3:15:12remember verbatim but call me when you
3:15:14can or have call me when you have a
3:15:15chance something to that effect and so
3:15:18when he told me call me I was like kind
3:15:21of alerted where I was like okay what's
3:15:24going on you know um but first when he
3:15:26told me like his family was like not
3:15:29home that didn't really seem odd to me
3:15:32that his family wasn't home it was
3:15:34really vague I'm like okay like are they
3:15:36at the grocery store like elaborate and
3:15:40so you know and then but he says call me
3:15:42like it's like an emergency but then
3:15:44just says but they're not there and so
3:15:47I'm like really like floored by the well
3:15:49not like floored but just kind of like
3:15:51he says call me so I'm concerned and
3:15:53then he's really vague so I'm
3:15:55like maybe he just wants to talk to me I
3:15:58don't know I think it took me a little
3:15:59while to like really process the
3:16:01severity of the situation just because
3:16:03this is not something that you expect to
3:16:05see every day and the way that he talked
3:16:07to me made me believe that this is not
3:16:10what was going on at all okay so you
3:16:13make a phone call to him and you guys
3:16:15have a conversation I did I stepped
3:16:17outside this is 3:45 is I mean well like
3:16:21I think I actually interacted with Jim
3:16:22for like probably a good 15 or 20
3:16:25minutes I mean he's my guest he's in my
3:16:26house um so I don't think I called him
3:16:29right away but like I mean I'm trying to
3:16:31balance the fact that I had my friend
3:16:33here and then Chris is saying that
3:16:35something needs to be addressed but to
3:16:37me it didn't sound like an emergency I
3:16:39mean it's all the time like people AR
3:16:42home right now you know so it
3:16:45just it wasn't like God I have to take
3:16:47this call
3:16:48it's no no I mean it just it was the way
3:16:51he said it and I was like okay so I um I
3:16:55remember hanging out with Jim for a
3:16:57while and then I stepped outside and I
3:16:59made a call like out on my back patio
3:17:02and I called them he didn't answer the
3:17:05phone and then he texted me back oh no
3:17:08did he answer the phone I don't remember
3:17:10I think he missed my call and then he
3:17:12called me back or he just answered
3:17:15either way it was a very short talk to
3:17:17him where he was just like I have to
3:17:20go the cops are here and I don't
3:17:22remember if he said that on the phone or
3:17:25over text I don't even I'm so tired
3:17:27that's fine you don't but either way
3:17:29like the cops cont yeah I mean you guys
3:17:31will figure it out the cops the cops are
3:17:33here and I'm just like all right and
3:17:38then I remember we were like in like we
3:17:41were texting but I was like hanging out
3:17:42with my company so it wasn't like a
3:17:44Non-Stop text it was just kind of like I
3:17:46I would check my phone every once in a
3:17:48while and we would communicate with each
3:17:49other and he was just saying like they
3:17:52weren't there and that her friend Nikki
3:17:54was there and that her friend
3:17:58Nikki had called the
3:18:00cops and I'm like why would this girl
3:18:03call the cops and like I honestly do not
3:18:07remember the order of operations on all
3:18:10of this but I'm pretty sure the majority
3:18:12of our conversation that night until my
3:18:15friend Jim left the house house which
3:18:17was probably pretty late I don't even
3:18:18know what time like 9 or 10 was all via
3:18:21text so you should have this via text
3:18:24like I don't think we started talking
3:18:25again on the phone until like after my
3:18:28company
3:18:29left um and he was
3:18:34like
3:18:36uh I don't know he just started like
3:18:39giving me details about stuff and I
3:18:41don't remember what order but he was
3:18:42saying like Nikki was really upset and
3:18:45that the cops were there and that they
3:18:46were like searching the house and I was
3:18:48just like what you know like what why
3:18:51and he was telling me that
3:18:53um they had like had a disagreement or
3:18:56something like that and then um he told
3:19:00me like she was going to go to a
3:19:01friend's house and I was like okay well
3:19:05maybe she left you know maybe she just
3:19:08like went to her friends and then I
3:19:10think he I don't remember but I think he
3:19:12was the one that told me that her cell
3:19:15phone and her purse were still there I
3:19:16think he told me that he told you her
3:19:18cell phone and purse were still there I
3:19:20think he did I don't remember what's the
3:19:22significance of that in your mind at
3:19:25that
3:19:26time at that point I thought this woman
3:19:30was really trying to get out of this
3:19:31house okay that's what I thought cuz he
3:19:34said that they'd had a disagreement and
3:19:36I was just like okay well I mean I leave
3:19:38my cell phone at home he said
3:19:40disagreement what did he tell you what
3:19:42it was about or not at that point not at
3:19:44that point so um again you guys are
3:19:47going to have to check these texts cuz
3:19:48it's all like my brain feels mashed
3:19:51potato right now um but I remember him
3:19:55saying that and I'm just thinking like
3:19:56well maybe she was in a rush you know
3:19:59like maybe she was just like I'm going
3:20:00to my friends I'm leaving my cell phone
3:20:02here because I don't want you calling me
3:20:03I don't want anyone else calling me I
3:20:04mean there are days where like when I'm
3:20:06outside of work I will just shove my
3:20:08phone off I just do it and it's like my
3:20:10way of getting Peace So to me that I
3:20:14mean like it was weird that she it
3:20:15wasn't even that weird to me she left
3:20:17her phone just because I leave my phone
3:20:19but it was weird to me that she left her
3:20:20purse but knowing the fact that that
3:20:23girl was like always on her phone then
3:20:26yeah I guess it is kind of OD she lived
3:20:28on her phone I think pretty much is my
3:20:30understanding of her and a phone
3:20:33so I don't know if you knew that I did
3:20:36until prior to the media stuff or just
3:20:38from Chris I did so did that so did that
3:20:41strike you as odd but you're thinking
3:20:43maybe she just left I just thought she
3:20:45needed to like get away from the
3:20:47situation I mean that didn't seem that
3:20:49awkward to me that a couple that is
3:20:52going through a separation would be
3:20:54like
3:20:57were I need to leave I just need some
3:20:59space like it didn't even like process
3:21:02it was like okay like give her some
3:21:03space you know and um on that note too
3:21:07um when he was in we're going to jump
3:21:09back for just a sec had a thought so
3:21:11when I he was coming back from North
3:21:13Carolina that was when he officially
3:21:15told me we're going to get a divorce
3:21:16going to put the house up for sale like
3:21:17he told me they were separating and they
3:21:20were like going to put the house up for
3:21:22sale but they hadn't done it yet and
3:21:23then when he got back from North
3:21:24Carolina that was when he was like it
3:21:26was like sealed deal okay um and the
3:21:29reason that is of significance is
3:21:30because at some point over the weekend I
3:21:32don't remember when he told me that they
3:21:34were putting the house up I I don't know
3:21:36if it was they were putting it up on
3:21:37Monday like the day they went
3:21:39missing or if it was that they were
3:21:42calling the realtor to verify some stuff
3:21:44so they could put it up that week like I
3:21:46don't I don't quite remember I just
3:21:47remember like the house which was
3:21:49supposed to be like on the market like
3:21:51that week did he name a real letter ever
3:21:54yeah he didn't I don't remember her name
3:21:56it was a female okay and I don't
3:21:58remember her name like at all I was
3:21:59trying to think of that for you guys not
3:22:01too long ago the company you got the
3:22:02company name no he never gave me that he
3:22:04like gave me her name and he it was the
3:22:06same name twice he gave it to me once
3:22:07when he was in North Carolina and then
3:22:09once the other time cuz I remember
3:22:10asking I was like who's that cuz he was
3:22:12like he's like I'm going to have to have
3:22:15her call so and so today and make sure
3:22:17everything's still good to go and I was
3:22:18like who's that he's like the realer I
3:22:20like
3:22:21oh or not today but like ever comes to
3:22:24your mind just yeah I doubt it that was
3:22:27such a I will try I don't F it's not
3:22:30that critical um that person may come
3:22:33forward to us anyways um perhaps so
3:22:37don't worry about it let's go back to
3:22:38the phone calls on Monday afternoon yeah
3:22:42so um so he's like texting me a lot of
3:22:45this information and I'm starting to
3:22:47kind of freak out and it's not like I'm
3:22:48freaked out like oh she got murdered I
3:22:51mean that is not what I thought it's
3:22:53like okay like the way I looked at this
3:22:56like apparently his wife had been gone
3:22:59since midday well was when she got like
3:23:01reported missing I didn't know that like
3:23:04he's the way I looked at this it was I
3:23:07got home from work just now I mean he
3:23:09didn't say that but I interpreted I just
3:23:11got home from
3:23:14work and my family is not
3:23:17here so when we're texting for like a
3:23:21few hours like the cop thing was kind of
3:23:23weird but he's like Nikki and sistered
3:23:24they call the cops Nikki insisted they
3:23:26call the cops and I'm
3:23:27like okay you know and I'm just trying
3:23:30to figure out well like what role does
3:23:31this woman play in this situation like
3:23:33is she did you know who she was no I
3:23:35don't know any of his people um like
3:23:39this has been pretty like tight rap for
3:23:41a while which is probably a really good
3:23:43thing um
3:23:44but anyways um I didn't know like who
3:23:49she was and so um like I started asking
3:23:53him I was like where do you think your
3:23:54wife is at and he's like he's like I
3:23:57think she'll be back tonight like I
3:23:59think she's like out with
3:24:00somebody and he was telling me that they
3:24:03had had a disagreement so I was like
3:24:05well I remember telling him I was
3:24:09like
3:24:11you should make sure
3:24:15that you you have a oh um wait a minute
3:24:19no no no no so all that happened and
3:24:22then it starts getting kind of laid
3:24:25out and I remember we talked for text
3:24:30for a while and part of this
3:24:31conversation and then it moved to the
3:24:32phone um and I remember telling him cuz
3:24:36he was like I think she'll just be back
3:24:37tomorrow I think she's just going to be
3:24:39gone for the night like with a friend
3:24:41you know and did he name the friend no
3:24:44he didn't and like I well and cuz I I
3:24:47don't think he made it sound like he
3:24:49didn't know like what friend's house she
3:24:51would be at and I remember talking to
3:24:53him and I was like well maybe it's that
3:24:56Nikki girl and he's like well Nikki
3:24:57called the cops so why would she be at
3:24:59Nikki's house I'm like I don't know kind
3:25:01of throws her off the trail where she's
3:25:02at you know and it's like it sounds kind
3:25:04of weird but it's like I he really made
3:25:06this sound like this woman was just like
3:25:08upset left the house and that was
3:25:12probably what he thought happened to her
3:25:14and so I I didn't really put too much
3:25:16like did he tell you the kids were
3:25:18missing as well yes I knew I mean which
3:25:20made sense to me cuz I was like well if
3:25:22you were at work all day I mean he
3:25:23didn't tell me he got home early he
3:25:25didn't say that to me so I mean it made
3:25:28sense like if she's going to
3:25:30leave they should probably go with her
3:25:33um and and so I don't know I wish I feel
3:25:37like I wish I should have like processed
3:25:39all of this earlier but I just don't
3:25:41feel like when one of my friends is gone
3:25:43I'm like oh my God
3:25:47today is August 17th 2018 the time is
3:25:5110:51 a.m. this is Agent Kevin cobak
3:25:54from CBI making a phone call to witness
3:25:58in the Watts
3:26:03matter Nicole Lee kessinger at
3:26:0872065
3:26:1169605 Nicole uh texted me last night and
3:26:15said that she called some further
3:26:17information after an interview with her
3:26:19on the 16th so the phone call will be to
3:26:23update whatever information she wants to
3:26:25provide and address a couple other
3:26:27issues that were not addressed during
3:26:28the initial
3:26:34[Music]
3:26:40[Applause]
3:26:45interview hello hi Nikki it's
3:26:48Kevin Hi how are you sorry uh sorry for
3:26:52the delay I got stuck in a meeting
3:26:54obviously couldn't walk out so I
3:26:57apologize for taking so long to get back
3:26:59to you it's okay you at least got a
3:27:03couple hours of sleep last
3:27:04night yes you you sound a little bit
3:27:07better than
3:27:08yesterday I feel a little bit better not
3:27:11much but I feel sitting down and just
3:27:14talking about all of that with everybody
3:27:16is
3:27:18like it's helping good well I think just
3:27:22keep that up and again if you need any
3:27:25if if I can put you in touch with
3:27:27somebody from a victim Advocate to
3:27:29whatever I can help you with just call
3:27:31and
3:27:33ask okay I'm gonna need you to do that
3:27:36once we're done talking okay sure I can
3:27:38get somebody in touch with you today um
3:27:41and you don't need to tell me about
3:27:42anything we talked about that yesterday
3:27:44but it might be something good for you
3:27:46to do and and I can make that happen
3:27:48today thank you you're welcome so what
3:27:51you text me about 2 a.m. and said that
3:27:54you uh remembered some other information
3:27:56what did you
3:27:58remember like just kind of odds and ends
3:28:02um and I'm sure there will be more as
3:28:04this goes on I just I interacted with
3:28:06him so much that sometimes
3:28:09like I just have to stop and think about
3:28:11how much information that I have gotten
3:28:14from him over the last
3:28:17few months and the last week or so and
3:28:20you know like I said I never know what's
3:28:22true and what's not anymore I figure
3:28:23I'll just give you guys everything I
3:28:25have and hopefully I don't have to keep
3:28:27calling you back with more but no
3:28:29promises no that's okay please do I like
3:28:32I told you yesterday anything that comes
3:28:35to mind that you think is important I'd
3:28:37like to know because you again you know
3:28:39him better than anybody probably over
3:28:42the last 6 to eight weeks so that's
3:28:45that's anything that he said to you or
3:28:46anything that stands out to you as
3:28:48you're reflecting on all this um kind of
3:28:52mess here is important for me to
3:28:54know understood um couple things so one
3:28:59I went back and I tried to like find
3:29:01whatever text you were talking about
3:29:02between my friend Charlotte and me with
3:29:04the harmony thing and I don't know what
3:29:07you're talking about okay um if you and
3:29:10I I mean her I text so much though so
3:29:12like if you find it and you show it to
3:29:13me let me know but it's just like I mean
3:29:15I would on that site but it was never
3:29:17like worth a damn for me so it wasn't
3:29:20really something that I ever like
3:29:22discussed with her however when I was
3:29:24going back through there I did realize
3:29:26that I had like offhandedly mentioned to
3:29:29her a little bit about Chris I didn't
3:29:32tell her that I was
3:29:34like How Deep The Rabbit Hole went on
3:29:37that I guess you could say but it was
3:29:39kind of vague and she was asking a lot
3:29:41of questions at that point but it was
3:29:43just like oh you know what I did say
3:29:45something to her
3:29:46you guys I think um I just looked at the
3:29:49the messages and there was some like
3:29:51little bit of conversation regarding
3:29:53yeah he's got
3:29:55kids um there was some conversations
3:29:58about some sexual related stuff and that
3:30:00was about it does that sound right yeah
3:30:03that's it but I mean I did mention it to
3:30:05her and honestly we've talked since then
3:30:07and I haven't even mentioned him and
3:30:09that girl's so wrapped up and everything
3:30:10that's going on in her life like I don't
3:30:12even think she realizes what's going on
3:30:14in the news even think she's going to
3:30:16connect the dots like I would be
3:30:19surprised like I honestly am convinced
3:30:21that if I don't say a word about it I
3:30:22bet you she won't even break him up okay
3:30:24and even if she did if I was just like
3:30:26yeah he's not around anymore in my life
3:30:29like I don't even think I'm not
3:30:31concerned about her okay and the only
3:30:35again the only concern I had there is
3:30:37there seemed like there was some
3:30:38conversation about a boyfriend and it
3:30:41doesn't seem like so you were actually
3:30:43talking to her about Chris not a
3:30:44boyfriend
3:30:47uh yeah I don't I like I went back to
3:30:49those texts I'm like what is he talking
3:30:51about I don't see anything about earmy I
3:30:54mean and if it's in there maybe it is
3:30:56and I just missed it it's like no I
3:30:59don't know I don't know not all that
3:31:02important it's not all that important so
3:31:04we can move past that what what else um
3:31:08on Monday night so a couple things um I
3:31:12told you we had been he had like texted
3:31:14me and then at the end of and I we had
3:31:17he had called or I called I think he
3:31:19called me but either way we were on the
3:31:21phone with each
3:31:22other and like part at some point when
3:31:26we were on the phone he was like he was
3:31:29like do you want a FaceTime and I
3:31:30remember I was laying in bed and I was
3:31:33and I was just like you know what okay
3:31:35let me turn on the light and I remember
3:31:37I turned on the light and we facetimed
3:31:40and when we
3:31:41facetimed he didn't really say much like
3:31:45it was almost kind of awkward I don't
3:31:48even know why I didn't think of this
3:31:49earlier but it was like it was very
3:31:51short too it was super brief and what
3:31:55short what what what is short like a
3:31:58couple of minutes or 30 minutes oh no I
3:32:01bet it was only probably like L five
3:32:03minutes I think it was only like a
3:32:05couple of minutes
3:32:07okay and he I think we we were like
3:32:11talking a little bit but he like he was
3:32:14laying down on a m
3:32:16that didn't have any sheets on
3:32:18it
3:32:20and um I was like okay so it's was
3:32:23thinking like well maybe he's like he's
3:32:26in bed I don't know what's up but I
3:32:27remember asking him like where's your
3:32:29sheet you know and he's like he's like
3:32:32oh I washed them and then this is the
3:32:34part I don't remember if this sentence
3:32:37right here came in the SpaceTime
3:32:39conversation or if it came in a phone
3:32:41conversation prior to the FaceTime
3:32:43conversation but regardless this next
3:32:45sentence came on Monday night and I'm so
3:32:48sorry that I cannot like always remember
3:32:52chronological every little detail that's
3:32:54okay it's understandable there's so much
3:32:58um but I remember he was saying that he
3:33:00was cleaning the house um to try to keep
3:33:04busy to take his mind off of things and
3:33:07this was on the phone and I didn't and
3:33:12it was kind of late when he was doing it
3:33:14and like I didn't honestly think that
3:33:17much about it originally because that
3:33:20man is always cleaning like he's a very
3:33:23very like organized meticulous clean
3:33:26individual like he's the type of guy
3:33:28that will like vacuum his whole house
3:33:29one week and if there's rooms that don't
3:33:32get used he'd vacuum again the next week
3:33:34just because it's like part of his
3:33:35routine okay so the fact so the fact
3:33:38that he's like cleaning to kill time and
3:33:41take his mind off things did not seem
3:33:44like a super red flag to me um because I
3:33:48was like okay well that's what he does
3:33:50he just like on his days off like he
3:33:51organizes his basement or he like cleans
3:33:54his garage it's just it's what he does
3:33:56okay and um so anyways so that didn't
3:33:59seem that uh like the norm for me but
3:34:02something that just kind of like dawned
3:34:04on me last night as he made the comment
3:34:06directly after that he said I had to
3:34:08watch the kids sheet he was like they
3:34:14smelled and I like was thinking about
3:34:17that last night and I'm like this man
3:34:19keeps that house so clean that's like
3:34:21the cleanest house I've ever seen and
3:34:24I'm like this man keeps that house so
3:34:26clean why would his kids
3:34:29sheets smell
3:34:31bad and this you think this was Monday
3:34:34night what time do you think it was
3:34:36Monday night oh God I don't even know I
3:34:39almost wish you guys would show me my
3:34:41phone so I'm going to I'm going to read
3:34:43off your phone calls for Monday Tuesday
3:34:46starting no it's on
3:34:48Monday Monday night Monday night you
3:34:51guys had um we talked about um a phone
3:34:54call yesterday but you guys had a phone
3:34:56call Monday night it looks like he
3:34:58called you it was 48 minutes and 57
3:35:01seconds it was at 9:48 p.m. that he
3:35:04called you um so that would take us to
3:35:08about
3:35:101035 and then there's another call on
3:35:13Monday it's for 51 minutes and 25
3:35:16seconds it looks like I'm not sure
3:35:18looking at this who called who but it
3:35:20looks like you called him and that was
3:35:22at 1109 p.m. that lasted 51 minutes so
3:35:26that takes us to um midnight and then
3:35:30there's another phone call where he
3:35:32calls you so we're now into midnight you
3:35:35know Tuesday morning it's a 30 minute
3:35:38phone call um that lasts until 12:38
3:35:43a.m. and then after 12:38 a.m. there's a
3:35:462 minute and 44 second phone
3:35:49call that lasts for or pardon me that
3:35:52starts at 1:12 a.m. it's 2 minutes and
3:35:5544
3:35:57seconds so yeah so I would almost this
3:36:01is just me but I would go get my text
3:36:04messages with him from that night and I
3:36:06would like syn them up to that like time
3:36:10frame because there was texting in
3:36:11between that so I think what happened is
3:36:14he called me on that first call
3:36:16and then there's that gap between the
3:36:18first call and the second call in in
3:36:20that Gap that was when I be face time
3:36:23for a few minutes and that was when I
3:36:26got up out of bed because I was just
3:36:28having trouble sleeping and I was like I
3:36:30went and did laundry that's what I did I
3:36:31went like put some clo I just put some
3:36:34clothes in the dryer and then I think I
3:36:36called him back and then we continued to
3:36:39talk so that little Gap right there
3:36:40between those two big phone calls at the
3:36:42very beginning of the night I me not the
3:36:44very beginning of the night but the like
3:36:45the big big ones of the the the first
3:36:47two so in between that Gap there's a
3:36:49there's like a quick FaceTime so do you
3:36:51think that 2 minute and 44 second is the
3:36:55FaceTime the one at the very end yeah
3:36:59well so there's there I don't I don't I
3:37:00don't I don't I don't even think the
3:37:02face time's on there the FaceTime
3:37:04occurred in between those two big phone
3:37:06calls that like know okay because it was
3:37:08so like one big phone call and then
3:37:10there's and then there should have been
3:37:12there's a FaceTime and then and in the
3:37:14FaceTime short it's only a few minutes
3:37:16and then there's probably just a few
3:37:18more minutes that's probably so there's
3:37:22a few more calls on Tuesday so 1:12 is
3:37:25the 2 minute and 44 second call that so
3:37:28that lasts till um approximately
3:37:321114 and then there's a long Gap uh
3:37:35until 150 so another 45 or 35 minutes
3:37:38and then there's a 7 minute phone call
3:37:41that phone call lasts till
3:37:431:58 a.m. and then there's a 10sec phone
3:37:47call at 20:7 a.m. followed by um so I
3:37:52think he calls you and maybe leaves a
3:37:54voicemail or something or doesn't you
3:37:55don't pick up uh so there's a 10-second
3:37:58call and then directly after that
3:38:00there's a 10 minute and 24 second phone
3:38:04call okay so I'm talking about the two
3:38:08at the very beginning of the okay the
3:38:10two long ones and is that when he's
3:38:12talking about the kids um she she okay
3:38:16so yes yes yes yes yes I will help you
3:38:18line this up like I almost want to just
3:38:19come in there and like Drop and drag all
3:38:21of my text to where they were going you
3:38:23know what we may meet and do that uh
3:38:26here coming early next
3:38:28week yeah well all those phone calls at
3:38:31the very end of the night that was me
3:38:33freaking out like if you look at my text
3:38:35a lot of that was like I can't sleep I'm
3:38:37really scared where's your family that
3:38:39was like me freaking out and him calling
3:38:42to like try to reassure me or me calling
3:38:44him like
3:38:46please talk to me I'm super scared
3:38:47where's your family like those those
3:38:50little ones at the very end of the night
3:38:52are are me not being able to sleep and
3:38:54trying to get him to
3:38:57like talk to me about like and just I
3:39:02guess making sure everything was okay so
3:39:04that those those like real late ones and
3:39:05that's why they're all kind of like
3:39:06sporadic I'd be up for like an hour and
3:39:08then i' fall sleep for like 15 minutes
3:39:10and then I would like wake up and start
3:39:12stressing again and try to call them
3:39:14back like so that's why they're all like
3:39:15little sporadic ones throughout the end
3:39:17of the night but those two big ones is
3:39:20so yesterday we talked about Tuesday was
3:39:22mainly text messages regarding um your
3:39:26confrontation about his wife being
3:39:28pregnant yeah is that accurate um it is
3:39:32and I mean I guess I guess those phone
3:39:34calls were on Tuesday morning but for me
3:39:36it was still Monday night talking to you
3:39:38guys last night that's how I refer to it
3:39:40because I hadn't like gone to bed yet
3:39:42you know what I'm saying yep no that
3:39:43makes sense to me okay so okay so soor
3:39:46so I guess those technically were on
3:39:49Tuesday but according to my daily sleep
3:39:52schedule that was still my Monday night
3:39:56right so the last phone call
3:40:00um with him on
3:40:03Monday well it it's it it basically
3:40:07starts into Tuesday um it takes you all
3:40:10the way to Tuesday it actually ends like
3:40:13basically at midnight
3:40:16on Monday August 31st so um his wife
3:40:20gets home sometime at about 2:00 on um
3:40:27that morning so no she got home on
3:40:30Sunday pardon me suay she got home on
3:40:32Sunday so did you ever talk to him late
3:40:35on Sunday
3:40:38night no we were on the phone but I mean
3:40:41I I had to let him go and get up and go
3:40:43to work that was the 9 to 11 call that
3:40:45we it was like a 2hour phone call we
3:40:47talked about yesterday on Sunday night
3:40:49from 9:00 p.m. to 11: and that would
3:40:52have been the last time I talked to him
3:40:54until the work
3:40:56day on Monday and that's when he text
3:40:59you at like
3:41:013:45 no we talked during work remember I
3:41:04told you he like randomly texted me
3:41:05throughout the day at work but it was
3:41:07like it was just like [ __ ]
3:41:08conversation it wasn't like anything no
3:41:11sust okay so the the most important
3:41:14thing that you've said here is this
3:41:15Monday night phone call um he doesn't
3:41:18have any sheets on the bed and he said
3:41:20his children's sheets were smelly they
3:41:24smelled yeah so let's let's get back to
3:41:26that because I feel like you and me are
3:41:27kind of getting up TR so go to those
3:41:29those that that first long phone call on
3:41:32Monday night was I think when he told me
3:41:36that I don't think he told me that in
3:41:37the FaceTime text I mean in the FaceTime
3:41:40conversation I think he told me that in
3:41:41the first conversation where he was like
3:41:43there sheep now and I remember thinking
3:41:46to myself like why like you keep such a
3:41:50clean house like why would your kids she
3:41:52think and like it just didn't really
3:41:54click and did you confront him why they
3:41:58did you confront him why the sheet
3:42:00smelled or did you inquire why no no no
3:42:03no I didn't even ask do you know his I
3:42:05mean uh his children were quite young
3:42:07and I think one of them was still in
3:42:09diapers um would would have that been a
3:42:12potential reason you know that one of
3:42:14them an accident or did it seem like
3:42:17that's not what he was talking
3:42:19about I don't know I mean he didn't
3:42:22elaborate he was just like I mean like I
3:42:26said he always cleans the house but even
3:42:28if his kids were to be in diapers and
3:42:30like have accidents like I just feel
3:42:33like the man keeps his house so clean
3:42:35and she does too they both must have to
3:42:37to like C this in a house that clean but
3:42:39like I just don't see anything in that
3:42:42house like smelling okay all right so
3:42:46that was why I brought that up cuz I was
3:42:48like whoa very important thanks for
3:42:50remembering
3:42:51that yeah I'm trying I'm really trying
3:42:54to help you guys I just I need you guys
3:42:55to help me too like do this as a team
3:42:57but just don't [ __ ] let me the reason
3:43:01why um we can't like I do I think uh I
3:43:04did think about this yesterday that I
3:43:06would like to sit down with you once we
3:43:08um have your text messages and the phone
3:43:10calls and we can put them in a uh some
3:43:13type of easily looking that we can sit
3:43:16down and look at them and compare them
3:43:18and we can kind of get the context of
3:43:20how everything was going that night I
3:43:22would like to do that with you
3:43:24unfortunately so the download that we
3:43:26got yesterday is going to take multiple
3:43:28days to be analyzed I probably won't
3:43:30have it back till next week and then
3:43:33because you guys did have so many um
3:43:35text messages uh there one of my
3:43:37analysts is working on getting those in
3:43:39order so we can put something together
3:43:42where we can actually sit down and
3:43:43discuss it but I do think that's
3:43:45something that we would I want to do in
3:43:47the near future sometime probably next
3:43:50week I mean I can do that I don't mind
3:43:52giving you guys my time I just need you
3:43:53guys to like help me with my employer
3:43:55and try to just help me brace for this
3:43:57media thing and just try so I think your
3:44:01personal mental health is the number one
3:44:03issue so let me help you with that and
3:44:05get in a victim Advocate to call you um
3:44:08and you can address questions of
3:44:10employment with them I think they're
3:44:12better suited to answer those questions
3:44:14than I am
3:44:15um so I I would ask you to direct
3:44:18questions to them if they can't answer
3:44:19them um I'll try to help you as best as
3:44:22I can I think you have a personal
3:44:24decision to make on what you want to do
3:44:26with your employer um I think you're
3:44:28you're kind of backed into a corner um
3:44:31and and you are going to it's a tough
3:44:33decision do you want to inform them of
3:44:35what was going on but um I will tell you
3:44:37that I think that when they started
3:44:40looking at information for us um and I
3:44:43clarified this this morning because I
3:44:45didn't do some of the work on this but
3:44:47there was either text messages or emails
3:44:50between you and Chris that were on text
3:44:53yep that were on company related phones
3:44:56or on company company related computers
3:44:59that um they were privileged to look at
3:45:01so they already know about
3:45:04you okay so yeah I just I don't know if
3:45:08I'm going to keep my job I hope that
3:45:09they don't fire me for that I mean
3:45:11technically I'm not an AP employee and
3:45:13he is and it was his phone and
3:45:17I don't think that's F like I don't know
3:45:20labor law I'll just put it that way I
3:45:22think that you know whatever I mean
3:45:25people have relationships at work and
3:45:28you guys were smart enough to stop the
3:45:30stuff however you guys did it do is it
3:45:34an unusual circumstance that two people
3:45:36who got together at their place of
3:45:37employment this terrible tragedy
3:45:39happened yes do I think that they are
3:45:44going to do anything to you I don't
3:45:45think so I mean if you read the paper
3:45:46today you saw they already fired
3:45:48Chris I mean oh yeah well they should
3:45:52hoping they're not gonna fire me well
3:45:53and I think you need to head that up um
3:45:56I think if it was me and this is just a
3:45:58personal this is not a professional
3:46:00opinion it's a personal opinion because
3:46:02I'm trying to help you as much as I can
3:46:04I would I would reach out to your
3:46:06employer and just say I want to come and
3:46:08talk to you but maybe talk to these talk
3:46:10to your EA people first and let me get
3:46:13you in touch with a victim advocate it
3:46:15cuz again I think your mental health is
3:46:17more important right now than even your
3:46:19employment I want you to make sure that
3:46:20you're comfortable and safe and
3:46:22everything that's happening and then
3:46:24make some uh you know professional
3:46:26decisions and in in regards to your
3:46:31employment okay okay so let me that and
3:46:34we can we can I go ahead no I have a
3:46:37couple more questions that don't relate
3:46:39to anything that we just talked about is
3:46:41there anything else that you remembered
3:46:43last night that you want
3:46:45address yeah a few so um I'm not done
3:46:48yet and then um and then we can talk
3:46:51about that whole thing too because I was
3:46:53actually going to see if I could email
3:46:54them today I was going to email my like
3:46:56upper upper boss and and I was actually
3:46:59going to call her and see and just ask
3:47:00her she can have she's Anna Darko see if
3:47:03she can have a schedule sit down with my
3:47:06employer Tasman and schedule sit down
3:47:08with Bap and I want to get in a room
3:47:10with them all at the same time and just
3:47:12give them kind of a brief synopsis of
3:47:14what's going on and just ask them for
3:47:15help and see what they have to say but I
3:47:17was going
3:47:18to say to them and just ask your opinion
3:47:21on it because I don't want to give them
3:47:22too much you do not need to tell them
3:47:25anything about the investigation or
3:47:27anything about what we discussed um from
3:47:32my standpoint the investigative pieces
3:47:35that we've talked about and um
3:47:38specifically things that relate directly
3:47:40to um why something may have happened or
3:47:44time frames or things like that they
3:47:47don't need to know that I think oh I
3:47:49wasn't going to tell them that I was
3:47:51just going to let them know that I was
3:47:53you were in a relationship with this
3:47:54case and that I was that I'm like a
3:47:57witness to this case and that right now
3:47:59it's pretty quiet but you know in a few
3:48:02weeks given how everything goes it might
3:48:04become kind of a media frenzy and I was
3:48:07just going to tell I'm like you know I
3:48:08mean I didn't commit any crimes and I'm
3:48:12not in trouble but I'm working with the
3:48:15prosecutor to try to help to bring some
3:48:17closure to this horrible thing and then
3:48:19just tell them like you know I just I
3:48:21don't think the me is going to portray a
3:48:23very nice picture of me and it's just an
3:48:25unfortunate circumstance of you know I
3:48:28think that your projection of whatever
3:48:32is going to happen with the media can be
3:48:33reserved until that time I don't think I
3:48:36know that's like your biggest fear in
3:48:37this but right now I would not even
3:48:40address I wouldn't address anything that
3:48:42hasn't happened I think I would simply
3:48:43tell them look I I am involved in this
3:48:47case I'm a witness and and I you know
3:48:50whether or not I think they already know
3:48:52it and I'm sure and Darko is going to
3:48:54talk with whoever your employer is to
3:48:57make them aware of that and then hey I
3:49:00had a relationship with this guy and
3:49:01that's all they need to know they don't
3:49:03need to know anything else um and and
3:49:05then I mean you have to protect your um
3:49:09your employment and and your personal
3:49:11well-being so think of the best way to
3:49:14do that that and just minimal
3:49:16information you don't have to tell them
3:49:17very much but I do think you're on the
3:49:20right track of getting ahead of it uh
3:49:22but again I I can't I'm not an attorney
3:49:24especially a labor attorney so you you
3:49:27have to make decisions for yourself on
3:49:29that but some of the people um here in
3:49:33the victim Advocate realm may be able to
3:49:35give you some better advice uh than than
3:49:37I I was hoping to do that today sure I
3:49:41will make a phone call today and the
3:49:44ball rolling
3:49:45because I would like to go to work on
3:49:47Monday or like out what is going on with
3:49:50like a fresh week and like try to put my
3:49:52life together because I think it will
3:49:54help yeah I think getting back to work
3:49:56and not sitting there and dwelling on
3:49:57this at every moment is going to be very
3:49:59beneficial to you so I I will reach out
3:50:03to those people who handle that today if
3:50:05I had a name I'd give it to you I don't
3:50:08um but I'll see who's available okay so
3:50:12what other I want I want to reach out to
3:50:15today I as soon as we're done here I'll
3:50:18I'll make that my next priority thank
3:50:21you what what other things is there that
3:50:24um you thought of last
3:50:26night oh um so I don't know when this
3:50:31phone conversation happened I think that
3:50:34this
3:50:36was
3:50:38Monday at some point as well I think it
3:50:42might have even been the same phone
3:50:44conversation it's him washing the sheets
3:50:46and
3:50:48everything
3:50:51um he I think it might have been the
3:50:53same
3:50:54conversation um he informed me
3:50:59that her friend Nikki's
3:51:03son uh was at the house when the cops
3:51:07came and that he was running all over
3:51:09the house and up and down in all the
3:51:11rooms and at this point I was like
3:51:15like well is anything missing because I
3:51:18was thinking on Monday that this girl
3:51:21had just left for the night so I was
3:51:23like well maybe if she's staying with
3:51:24Nikki or somebody maybe she forgot some
3:51:26stuff so maybe they're sending you know
3:51:29they're like sending him in like hey go
3:51:30get a toothbrush or go get this or go
3:51:32get that like I didn't I didn't know and
3:51:35so he's like yeah this little kid was
3:51:36like running all over my house and then
3:51:38all the different rooms in the house and
3:51:40I was like well was anything missing and
3:51:42he was like he was like well there I
3:51:46think there's some blankets missing from
3:51:49my kids' rooms but I don't think he took
3:51:52them I think she
3:51:54did
3:51:58okay so he said little kid do you know
3:52:00how old this man was or boy was oh
3:52:04Nikki's son I don't know I think he's
3:52:06like 10 or 12 like I think he's like a
3:52:09like a yeah I don't know I think he's
3:52:12like 10 or 12 like old enough to like
3:52:14process information on around
3:52:17house so he said he thought that the kid
3:52:21didn't take him but that maybe um shenan
3:52:24had taken him
3:52:27yes that's a weird
3:52:31Okay so Nikki Sunny is like 10 to
3:52:3512 and
3:52:39um I'm just making some notes just a
3:52:41sec take your time
3:52:53okay what
3:52:56else let me see let me see let me see
3:53:02um I don't know I feel like I had a list
3:53:05in my head and I almost wrote it out but
3:53:07I put how about this and I was going to
3:53:10mention this last night but I think both
3:53:11of us were pretty tired um and we were
3:53:15we were there for a long time yesterday
3:53:17so if you have a thought keep a notepad
3:53:21and a pen and paper with you and write
3:53:22it down and then that way you don't lose
3:53:25it that that way and then you can just
3:53:27call me and we can discuss it and and
3:53:29we're done um and then move on then you
3:53:31don't have to think about it anymore
3:53:32does that sound like a decent idea it
3:53:36does I don't know what else I going tell
3:53:38you oh well oh when we FaceTime too so
3:53:41let me go back to that too so I think
3:53:43all of this was on Monday so I think the
3:53:45both the comments about the blankets and
3:53:46the sheets were on that first phone call
3:53:49on Monday and then directly after that
3:53:51phone call there was like a brief
3:53:54FaceTime and when I facetimed him he was
3:53:57like he was laying on a bed that didn't
3:54:02have any sheets on it okay and I
3:54:06remember and he was like in um just like
3:54:10like a like a little wife beater top and
3:54:13he didn't really much it was like he
3:54:16wanted me to talk to him he's like I
3:54:17just wanted to see your face and he like
3:54:20wanted me to talk to him but he was like
3:54:22kind of quiet and actually that was why
3:54:25I got off the phone with him and did
3:54:27laundry and then so I would call him
3:54:29back on the phone because when we were
3:54:31FaceTiming it was like kind of weird I
3:54:33was like uh I don't really know where
3:54:35this is going like you're not really
3:54:37having a conversation with me so he was
3:54:40just removed he he wasn't very engaged
3:54:43in the conversation
3:54:45he was just like really fixated on like
3:54:48me like I bet you if I wouldn't have
3:54:50talked he would have been okay with it
3:54:53just staring at you
3:54:55yeah I mean it was just like it was
3:54:58really brief too like it was super short
3:55:00and I was just like this is not going
3:55:01anywhere and I remember telling him like
3:55:03I will call you back let me go do some
3:55:05laundry so I like got out of bed and
3:55:07went through some clothes in the dryer
3:55:09that I had forgot to put in the dryer
3:55:10prior to laying down and then um I don't
3:55:15know I think I might have did like one
3:55:16or two other little quick things and
3:55:17then I got back in bed and then called
3:55:19him back on the phone and that's when
3:55:21that second long phone call start okay
3:55:25all right great anything
3:55:27else um off the top of my head I don't I
3:55:32don't really
3:55:34think today is August 21st 2018 this is
3:55:38Agent Kevin kobak from the Colorado
3:55:40Bureau of Investigation placing a phone
3:55:42call to Nicole
3:55:45kessinger also known as Nikki at 720
3:55:49656
3:55:519605 the current time is 6:45
3:56:02[Music]
3:56:09p.m. hello hi Nikki it's
3:56:12Kevin hi Kevin how are you I'm okay all
3:56:18right um can you I I'm running a
3:56:20recorder so you know um okay I I just
3:56:23want you to introduce yourself again for
3:56:25the tape recorder just say your legal
3:56:27name for me and then we'll get started
3:56:29okay okay it's Nicole Lee cenger and
3:56:33your birthday Nicole July 3rd 1988 and
3:56:37you go by Nikki correct yes sir
3:56:41okay all righty so you text me this
3:56:44morning we had a brief conversation
3:56:46regarding some new information that you
3:56:49remembered uh from just reflecting on
3:56:53what's been going on with this case so
3:56:57you want to start with that so you did
3:56:58you write some things down I did so
3:57:01they're kind of out of order they kind
3:57:03of just are as they came to my head
3:57:07sure um so we'll go over them in the
3:57:09order that I wrote them down that's fine
3:57:12um so think about the whole
3:57:16um uh what is the the name of the the
3:57:20stuff she sold for leel
3:57:23Thrive I'm sorry
3:57:26thrive thrive that's right I was like
3:57:28it's start I'm trying to BL so I started
3:57:31thinking about this whole Thrive thing
3:57:32because I remember that we
3:57:35spoke at the end of last week and you
3:57:37were asking what I thought of it and I
3:57:40made it clear that I just I didn't
3:57:43understand it
3:57:44um and the reason I had a hard time
3:57:46understanding it was because I didn't
3:57:48understand how people who were living
3:57:50sedentary Lifestyles and had poor diets
3:57:52were losing so much weight on this on
3:57:56this program and Chris was never able to
3:57:59tell me what was in it like he always
3:58:02not always but when we first met he was
3:58:04like you should try this stuff you
3:58:05should try this stuff and I never I
3:58:08never wanted to I was uncomfortable with
3:58:09it because I didn't know what it was um
3:58:13and I even had looked on their website
3:58:15and I still didn't completely understand
3:58:17it and so I just kind of I stayed away
3:58:19from that and not only that I mean he
3:58:21told me you know the only things he
3:58:23pretty much told me is it gives you
3:58:24energy and it's like a weight loss
3:58:26supplement and I'm not trying to lose
3:58:28any weight like I don't need that and I
3:58:30didn't feel like I needed the energy
3:58:32either so he never pushed it again and I
3:58:36never I never like he always wore the
3:58:40Thrive patches and I never questioned it
3:58:42it was like what he did um but one thing
3:58:46I do remember him mentioning to me when
3:58:48he first tried to introduce me to thrive
3:58:51was that you needed one patch a day um
3:58:56and when he would hang out with me he
3:58:58always wore two always wore two okay um
3:59:04and I don't know you remember where
3:59:06where he wore
3:59:07him yeah so he would usually wear one on
3:59:12like his left
3:59:14tricep bicep area and then sometimes he
3:59:18would wear another one on the right side
3:59:20in the same spot or he would wear it on
3:59:24his like lower back
3:59:28okay um but he always had two and I
3:59:31remember thinking like I thought you
3:59:33only needed one of these why are you
3:59:35using two and I never I never questioned
3:59:37it because for me I mean like I never
3:59:38questioned him about it because to me I
3:59:41just felt like since I wasn't involved
3:59:43with that program and I didn't want to
3:59:44be involved it wasn't really my my
3:59:47position to to to question him sure um
3:59:51and now I know that there's also
3:59:52supplements that go with it there's like
3:59:54a pill and and like a morning Shaker
3:59:59there's like a lot of stuff that goes
4:00:00with it but there's like a daily routine
4:00:02of like three or four items that you are
4:00:05supposed to take now was he doubling up
4:00:07on those other items I am not sure I was
4:00:10he do you know if he was following the
4:00:12complete routine
4:00:14um as far as I know he was following it
4:00:17and he had told me that that is why he
4:00:19lost a bunch of weight he said that the
4:00:21reason he lost so much weight was all
4:00:24because of Thrive and then he said that
4:00:28at some point a few months ago he had
4:00:30started getting stagnant with the weight
4:00:33loss and so that is when he decided that
4:00:36he was going to start working out again
4:00:38and that's when he decided he wanted to
4:00:40start eating healthy as well because he
4:00:43was realizing that he'd like plateaued
4:00:46and he he still wanted to continue with
4:00:49his Fitness but I think he was realizing
4:00:51like maybe a diet like a healthy diet
4:00:54and exercise is what I need at this
4:00:57point so that was the Avenue that he was
4:00:59starting to go down and he'd been going
4:01:02down by the time I met him um but he was
4:01:05still doing a thrive on top of it so the
4:01:07thing that caught my yeah so the thing
4:01:09that caught my attention about this
4:01:10recently when I was thinking about it is
4:01:12the fact that um
4:01:14I think maybe the reason he was doing
4:01:16the two a days and this is just
4:01:17speculation is because it had like
4:01:20plateaued so maybe he was doubling up
4:01:22because he thought it had plateaued so
4:01:25the reason that this comes to my
4:01:27attention is because of his weight loss
4:01:30so um he lost 13 lounds in about five
4:01:36weeks in fact I can give you the dates
4:01:38he lost 13 pounds from July
4:01:414th to August 11th is how much weight he
4:01:45lost because August 4 I mean July 4th
4:01:48was the day that I went to his house and
4:01:52sat down with him and asked him how much
4:01:54do you weigh and he asked me can you
4:01:57just like look at my macros and see how
4:02:00much protein people my size usually eat
4:02:03and all that and just asked me to like
4:02:04glance at it so that's why I went over
4:02:06there like when you say his house that's
4:02:08his house in Frederick that he shared
4:02:11with shanan yes told you guys I went to
4:02:15on the fourth and that was why I went
4:02:16there was to to sit down with him that
4:02:18morning of the fourth and
4:02:20just
4:02:22discuss his goals you know and again I'm
4:02:25not a fitness trainer so he already had
4:02:27a an idea in mind he was just asking me
4:02:29like can you just glance at this and
4:02:31tell me what you think since you pay
4:02:33such close attention to these things so
4:02:36anyways um so I'm G to ask you I think I
4:02:40already asked you and we discussed this
4:02:42once but July 4th was the first time you
4:02:44went to his house and then I think you
4:02:45said like the following Monday or Sunday
4:02:49was the the fin the second and final
4:02:51time you'd been to his
4:02:53home um I will have to it was a Saturday
4:02:57and I'll have to look it up it was
4:02:58either the SAT it
4:03:01was I really
4:03:04just
4:03:06that's so the four and then that we
4:03:10can I think I think and I will double
4:03:14check this but I'm pretty
4:03:17sure I know for a fact I was at his
4:03:19house on July 4th and I think the second
4:03:23time I went to his house was Saturday
4:03:26the 14th okay and and you those are if I
4:03:30remember right you only had been there
4:03:31two times right yeah like I didn't want
4:03:34to go back after that second time that I
4:03:36was there I just like I don't want to be
4:03:37at this house like if you want to hang
4:03:38out come to my house so so yeah so the
4:03:4014th was the last time I was there okay
4:03:43um but back to this so the the Thrive
4:03:46thing so I I was I was like kind of
4:03:50concerned that he was losing so much
4:03:52weight um but I also wasn't because he
4:03:54was like kind of fine-tuning his diet
4:03:56but it was enough for me to look at it
4:03:59um because I was like well I mean it it
4:04:02wasn't like a a severe weight loss but
4:04:05it was It was kind of fast so I was like
4:04:08okay well are you getting enough
4:04:09calories what's going on and I couldn't
4:04:11figure out cuz I was looking at what he
4:04:13was eating and it was like healthy
4:04:15proteins and vegetables and and he was
4:04:18eating a decent amount of food and I'm
4:04:20just like how is this man losing so much
4:04:22weight and then I started thinking about
4:04:24it the other day and I'm like oh my God
4:04:26it's because he was like doubling up on
4:04:28all the Thrive stuff and he was starting
4:04:30to eat really healthy so that I think is
4:04:34so did you see a change in him
4:04:36personally during that a time from July
4:04:404th or Pardon Me July yeah July 4th to
4:04:42August 11th when he lost that kind of
4:04:45weight what did you say what was the
4:04:47question you were asking did did you see
4:04:49a lot of change in him like um not
4:04:54physical change but was his personality
4:04:56different or was it just the weight
4:04:59loss no it was just the weight loss like
4:05:02I didn't think he was any different but
4:05:04this is the one thing that I wanted to
4:05:06point out to you guys was
4:05:08that he was always this way I just want
4:05:11to state that right now like this was
4:05:12not something that started any certain
4:05:14point but from the first time that we
4:05:17started hanging out he always had a
4:05:21ridiculous amount of energy and it
4:05:23wasn't that he was like super high
4:05:25strong and bouncing off the walls it was
4:05:27that he could stay up he like didn't
4:05:30need to sleep and he was always that way
4:05:34like when we would hang out he oh my God
4:05:38I would try to get him to go to bed at
4:05:39like 10:00 every night I'm like if
4:05:41you're going to stay here you need to go
4:05:43to bed at like 10: because I have to get
4:05:45up and go to work in the morning and so
4:05:47do you and he he would keep me up like
4:05:51every night and we usually I would
4:05:53say I mean it kind of fluctuated but
4:05:56typically I would say that we went to
4:05:57bed somewhere when he stayed the night
4:05:59at my house on those nights somewhere
4:06:01between
4:06:0211:00 and midnight every night and it
4:06:04used to bug me because it was like I was
4:06:07so tired I'm did
4:06:10youed what time what time did you
4:06:12usually wake up
4:06:14um it kind of depended on the day and
4:06:15what I had going on at work but I would
4:06:17say in between 4:30 and 5 is like a
4:06:19pretty accurate Assumption of when I'm
4:06:22supposed to get up for work okay all
4:06:24right so I mean and then so what I would
4:06:26do is I would go to work all day and
4:06:28then when I would get off work I would
4:06:30sleep I would go home and nap and I
4:06:33would and my naps varied in time
4:06:35sometimes it was a half an hour
4:06:36sometimes it was like an hour and a half
4:06:37I was like whatever my body needed and
4:06:39then I would get up and I would go to
4:06:41the gym and then after I got back from
4:06:42the gym
4:06:44he would come over my house and it would
4:06:45be the same thing where it was like he
4:06:48would keep me up and I will tell you
4:06:49without those naps there's no way I
4:06:52would have been able to keep up with him
4:06:54no way and and then and another thing
4:06:57about that too and he was always like
4:06:59that always and and it used to
4:07:01he I could tell like his body wanted to
4:07:05sleep but like his mind couldn't sleep
4:07:08and the reason that I say that is
4:07:10because
4:07:12he he sometimes I would see him like he
4:07:14would keep me up so I'd be like all
4:07:16right well like let's watch a movie you
4:07:18know U if you want to hang out and so
4:07:20we'd be up and I'd see him like doze off
4:07:23and then like wake right back up and
4:07:25like doze off and wake right back up and
4:07:27there was a few times there was a few
4:07:30times that we were having a conversation
4:07:32and he would be talking to me Kev and he
4:07:35would like all sleep mid sentence and
4:07:38wake up like Snap yeah and he would like
4:07:41snap out of it like five or 10 seconds
4:07:43ler
4:07:44and keep talking right where he left off
4:07:46that's
4:07:47weird yeah it always like blew my mind I
4:07:50was like this guy must really like me if
4:07:52he is like avoiding sleep to abuse me
4:07:55and it was like I just I couldn't do it
4:07:57like I napped probably almost every
4:07:59single day after I out with him right
4:08:02okay I get so honestly it was almost it
4:08:06was like he was on speed so you think
4:08:08the Thrive thing contributed to that or
4:08:10at least his own drive for losing weight
4:08:14and getting in shape and maybe his um
4:08:18attraction to you um drove him because
4:08:21you're pretty physically fit and he was
4:08:24kind of motivated by that I think
4:08:26remember you saying that earlier um that
4:08:28you were trying to help him get in
4:08:30better
4:08:31shape well I mean he was already in good
4:08:35physical shape and he was already taking
4:08:37care of his health and his diet in the
4:08:40gym I just think he was like hey since
4:08:43you already in this live a healthy
4:08:46lifestyle would you be willing to just
4:08:48give me some input maybe I can find tun
4:08:50it you think that was some of the
4:08:52motivation for him to stay awake long
4:08:56hours and um you know use maybe multiple
4:09:00patches of Thrive to try to impress you
4:09:03for lack of better
4:09:05terms no I think it was the Thrive and I
4:09:09think his body wanted to sleep I think
4:09:11it really wanted to sleep I think he
4:09:13legitimately was trying to lose weight
4:09:16and I think that's what was keeping him
4:09:18up because at the end of the day like I
4:09:20wanted to sleep but he just was like
4:09:22really restless and didn't seem like he
4:09:24wanted to but he always seemed like
4:09:26really respectful of my wishes so you
4:09:29would think that he would be on board
4:09:31with that but it was almost like he like
4:09:33couldn't calm his brain you know and
4:09:36like I said he wasn't
4:09:38acting high energy he just like wouldn't
4:09:41sleep and I almost think that's what it
4:09:42was it was almost Restless where it's
4:09:44like hey I can't turn off at the end of
4:09:46the night stay up with me and he never
4:09:47said that but that was kind of the
4:09:49impression that I got okay and so and
4:09:52again the double Thrive patches I mean
4:09:54maybe but I don't really think he was
4:09:56trying to impress me I mean he told me
4:09:57like I plateaued on this stuff so I
4:10:00think maybe he was like well what if I
4:10:02double dip so right so he's trying to
4:10:04get over I get it okay yeah so I don't I
4:10:08don't think that was a n motivated thing
4:10:10for him I think that was he cuz he was
4:10:13already working on the Thrive thing and
4:10:15like I said in his Fitness he was doing
4:10:17all that prior to me being in his life
4:10:20okay so and and so and I don't know if
4:10:22he was double patching before I met him
4:10:25he double patched the whole time I knew
4:10:27him so I don't know if like that
4:10:29occurred once I came into his life or if
4:10:31he had already started doing that once
4:10:33he PL I never asked okay I just found
4:10:36that really interesting so I just wanted
4:10:38to bring that up yeah and I appreciate
4:10:39it and you're that's the kind of things
4:10:42that I want to we talked prior uh just
4:10:45to get you to recall things that didn't
4:10:49seem out of place then that but when you
4:10:51reflect back may have seemed out of
4:10:53place now with what you know so what's I
4:10:57mean it was scary to me like it was
4:10:58scary that he lost that much weight on
4:11:00that stuff but I guess a lot of people
4:11:02do and I keep thinking about it I'm like
4:11:03it almost seems like it's a drug if you
4:11:06look at any diet though I mean I I'm not
4:11:09a fitness guy but if you read about
4:11:12Atkins or any of these other diets
4:11:14people lose excessive amounts of Weights
4:11:16in short periods of time so um yeah yeah
4:11:20whatever I I think it's interesting that
4:11:23uh this Thrive played a part in it um
4:11:26and quite frankly I I am going to get
4:11:28one of these patches uh to try to figure
4:11:31out what it is um so we'll we'll we'll
4:11:35figure that out um at some point so okay
4:11:39what's next on your
4:11:40list um let's see let's see let's see um
4:11:46oh okay so this is Saturday so
4:11:50Saturday would have this is Saturday the
4:11:5311th of August okay was that the 11th
4:11:57yep okay this is the night that we
4:12:00attempted to go to the lazy dog on 120th
4:12:04in federal and we walked in and I looked
4:12:08at their menu they like tried to feed us
4:12:10and I looked at their menu and I was
4:12:12like I'm not eating here um and because
4:12:15yeah so we went to the other Lazy Dog
4:12:17which is actually owned by somebody else
4:12:20so they have a different menu so we went
4:12:21to the lazy dog off of I think it's
4:12:24144th that I told you guys and we sat
4:12:26down and we ate and we were it's on
4:12:28Highway 7 right what's up is it on
4:12:31Highway
4:12:337 I don't think so it's on I25 and like
4:12:37144
4:12:38okay I mean I can look it up screenshot
4:12:41it I think uh there's two of them and I
4:12:44think there was some confusion one of
4:12:46our guys went and I just want to make
4:12:47sure he went to the right one um I don't
4:12:51I don't I don't know the lazy dog but
4:12:53I'll ask him tomorrow 144th is right by
4:12:55Highway
4:12:567 okay well I I don't know that I don't
4:12:59know I just I had never been to that one
4:13:01so um I think it's 144th it might be
4:13:03136th I will look it up tonight and I
4:13:06screenshot you the address and I will
4:13:08send it so that you guys if you guys
4:13:09need to pull those videos you can find
4:13:11it um but thing that I noticed about
4:13:14this is that um so normally when we went
4:13:18out um I try to keep things pretty cheap
4:13:21just to be like respectful like I never
4:13:23went to like expensive places or
4:13:24anything and sometimes I would pay for
4:13:26things sometimes he would but when he
4:13:28paid he would always use these like anad
4:13:31Darko gift cards um like these little
4:13:35gray gift cards and they were always
4:13:36like $25 or $50 and they always came in
4:13:40like like denomination increments that
4:13:44Mak sense and he told me that he got
4:13:47these from anad Darko as rewards for
4:13:51like doing really good stuff at work and
4:13:54is that true I don't know I don't know
4:13:58if I mean I know that him and his wife
4:14:00had a lot of financial issues so I don't
4:14:02know if maybe he's the one who actually
4:14:04wanted to spend all the money and maybe
4:14:05he was cashing his paycheck in Via gift
4:14:09card so that his wife couldn't track it
4:14:11I don't know I don't know but it's
4:14:13something you guys will need were they
4:14:15actually in the name of anad Darko did
4:14:18do you remember or did he just tell you
4:14:20that they were no no no no I've seen
4:14:22them They Se anad Darko on them they're
4:14:24like little Sil dark
4:14:26silver like credit cards but they're
4:14:28like gift cards so you're you're just
4:14:31suspicious that potentially he was
4:14:32hiding money from his wife with these
4:14:34gift
4:14:35cards honestly no I think Anna Darko
4:14:38legitimately gave him these the oil
4:14:40industry is pretty good about when our
4:14:43operators do things that are
4:14:45safe um or they do a really good job at
4:14:49something um
4:14:52they they uh they usually provide like
4:14:56gift cards or some sort of incentive for
4:14:59just so they bonus these guys out if
4:15:01they're doing a good job or being extra
4:15:04like they have no safety violations and
4:15:05stuff yeah yeah yeah stuff like that so
4:15:08it's like they're like safety rewards so
4:15:10um yeah so so do I think legitimate
4:15:13honestly yes I I I do that's something
4:15:16you need to confirm with Anna Darko
4:15:17though because I wasn't one of their
4:15:18employees so I don't know okay um but I
4:15:22did think to myself like if they do have
4:15:24money issues maybe he was possibly
4:15:26concealing it but the thing it's not
4:15:28even the gift cards I think that are
4:15:30like the main focus on this right now
4:15:32for me the main focus that I wanted to
4:15:34bring to you guys' attention is he
4:15:35always paid with those always every time
4:15:39you guys so you you we talked about this
4:15:42um prior and let's just revisit it um
4:15:45you guys never really went out on a date
4:15:48per se with the exception of this
4:15:52Saturday night on the 11th usually you
4:15:55guys spent time at your home um versus
4:16:00going out unless I'm mistaken on what
4:16:03you're
4:16:04saying you are I so we on most nights
4:16:08would hang out at my house but we went
4:16:10out a few times I had dates for
4:16:12everything and I can give you that once
4:16:14I'm done with this um
4:16:17so um the reason that this caught my
4:16:20attention was not because of the gift
4:16:22cards it was the lack of the gift cards
4:16:24so when we went out to dare he went to
4:16:26pay the check and I noticed that instead
4:16:29of using one of the anad Darko gift
4:16:31cards he had a baby blue credit card in
4:16:34his hand that he used to pay okay and I
4:16:38just remember thinking to myself like
4:16:41why isn't he using any of those gift
4:16:42cards I'm pretty sure he still has a
4:16:44balance on one of those but I couldn't
4:16:46remember and then I was just like I was
4:16:48like maybe cuz you know at this
4:16:52point at this point he had made it clear
4:16:56to me that they were like filing for
4:17:00divorce like it was like done so I was
4:17:02like well maybe he just doesn't really
4:17:05care anymore you know and but then
4:17:07another part of me was like but
4:17:08technically they're still together so
4:17:12why
4:17:14would he do that and like I just I
4:17:17didn't ask because like he had made it
4:17:19sound like by that Saturday that they
4:17:21were so far removed from each other that
4:17:23I was like it's possible that now he's
4:17:25just not like has nothing to cover up
4:17:29you know but then at the same time I
4:17:32still feel like until your divorce is
4:17:34100% completely final and you're out of
4:17:36that house why would you do that I mean
4:17:40so again I so you just found it was a
4:17:42little bit suspicious um that he used a
4:17:45credit card versus the um the gift card
4:17:49it was like he had nothing to hide right
4:17:51or Nothing to Lose he was just like yeah
4:17:55I'm gonna pay with this and I don't care
4:17:57okay so and that would certainly be uh
4:18:02if it was a credit card um just thinking
4:18:05would be something that maybe his wife
4:18:07would see at some point and he would
4:18:10have to then try to have to explain that
4:18:12so in your mind
4:18:13he's like oh well we're divorced or I
4:18:16don't care anymore um she's going to
4:18:18find out that I have a a
4:18:21girlfriend I don't really know what he
4:18:23was thinking I mean I can't think for
4:18:25that man I mean I don't even I can't
4:18:27even process half the [ __ ] he's done or
4:18:29the lies he's told at this point so I
4:18:31don't know I just think that that was
4:18:34extremely peculiar because he had never
4:18:36done that before and it didn't seem like
4:18:38a big deal to him all right I I get
4:18:41where you're going um so it kind of made
4:18:43you think that he didn't have anything
4:18:45to hide
4:18:46anymore no not at all and again you know
4:18:49I mean there was other parts of our
4:18:51relationship where it's like he talked
4:18:53to me on the phone pretty freely like
4:18:55all the time you know so for me like he
4:18:57never really seen it never really seemed
4:18:59like on the phone like he had to hide
4:19:02anything at all and that's why you know
4:19:05when he's telling me yeah we're getting
4:19:06separated yeah I'm sleeping in the
4:19:08basement like it didn't even like occur
4:19:11to me like maybe this isn't happening
4:19:13because it was like he was so liberal
4:19:16about his communication with me even if
4:19:20they were in the same house together at
4:19:23the same time and so for me I was like
4:19:26all right well maybe she's upstairs he's
4:19:28downstairs they're separated it doesn't
4:19:30really matter if he makes a phone call
4:19:32and so that he was always liberal with
4:19:34but when it came to like paying for
4:19:36things it was always the anad Darko gift
4:19:39cards and again like I don't know if
4:19:40that's CU he was hiding it from her or
4:19:42if that was
4:19:45because he happened to have these gift
4:19:47cards and why not spend those as opposed
4:19:49to like the money in your bank account I
4:19:51mean I don't know I just noticed that
4:19:54that one last time that we hung out that
4:19:57he paid with a credit card and I was
4:19:59confused because I was pretty sure that
4:20:02he still had a balance remaining on like
4:20:06one of those anod Darko cards but I I
4:20:09okay I don't know I don't know all right
4:20:12what's next
4:20:13all right and then um let me just give
4:20:15you a date real quick sure um for the
4:20:19things when we were out in
4:20:21public
4:20:23so I think I have these right I hope I
4:20:26have these right um but
4:20:33on
4:20:35Sunday I think it was
4:20:39Sunday I think it was Sunday the 5th I
4:20:42think July 5th
4:20:44um yeah that's what I meant I'm sorry
4:20:46I'm glad that you're paying attention to
4:20:47this yeah so J I think July I'm going to
4:20:50start at the beginning so I went out of
4:20:53town for my birthday I came home on July
4:20:563rd which is the night of my birthday on
4:20:59the 4th of July I went over his house in
4:21:01the morning and then and helped him with
4:21:04his like meal plan thing and then after
4:21:07that I went to the Fourth of July
4:21:08Rockies game with one of my friends and
4:21:11then on the fifth I think it was the
4:21:15fifth I don't remember um we went to go
4:21:18see a
4:21:19movie um and we went to the movie
4:21:22theater that is up by that Lazy Dog I
4:21:24think on 144
4:21:27925 um what movie did you see that new
4:21:31Jurassic Park movie I don't know what
4:21:33it's
4:21:35called okay and I remember um we got
4:21:40there and the first showing was sold out
4:21:44I think I don't remember I think either
4:21:46we were going to go see another movie
4:21:47and it was sold out or that one was sold
4:21:49out so but when we went up there to
4:21:52start with it was sold out and so we we
4:21:55left and
4:21:58we um we went and like walked down to
4:22:03these benches that were like right
4:22:04across from the Victoria Secret um and I
4:22:07don't know what corner of the building
4:22:09that would be on um if you guys need me
4:22:10to go up there and try to figure it out
4:22:12all figure it out that's okay yeah and
4:22:15we like sat in these benches on this
4:22:17bench under this tree and like just
4:22:20[ __ ] until the next showing of the
4:22:24movie um and then we went to the second
4:22:27showing of the movie and it was really
4:22:29late I want to say it was like 9
4:22:30something
4:22:33p.m. and I want to say I don't I I just
4:22:36I don't even want to say it's Sunday cuz
4:22:38I feel like it was like not Sunday I
4:22:41don't think it was my birthday though
4:22:43I don't know okay I don't know I might
4:22:45have all my dates mixed up if I have all
4:22:46my dates mixed up just that's okay
4:22:50getting us close you'll find it okay so
4:22:54then um let me go back
4:23:00to
4:23:02um no I was looking at August that's why
4:23:05the DAT the date sounded weird it
4:23:09was it was like
4:23:14it was either the 6th of July or the
4:23:16seventh of July looking at the so Sunday
4:23:20the 6 Pardon Me No it's it's I think
4:23:24because that's what I'm saying I didn't
4:23:25think it was a Sunday so it is either
4:23:27Friday the 6th okay or Saturday the 7th
4:23:31of July I'm sorry I the wrong calendar
4:23:35um so one of the because I remember that
4:23:37was like our first like outing that was
4:23:40like our first date and it was the
4:23:41weekend
4:23:43right after my birthday week so um so it
4:23:46had to been yeah either probably the 6th
4:23:48or the 7th and then we didn't go
4:23:51anywhere again until the next
4:23:55weekend and that
4:23:58weekend on Saturday the 14th that's the
4:24:03day that I went to his
4:24:05house um we went up to Boulder and we
4:24:09went to the Shelby Mustang Museum so
4:24:13this was July 14th
4:24:15okay yeah so we went up there took a
4:24:19tour and then um after that we
4:24:25left and um do you remember what time
4:24:28that would have
4:24:29been that we
4:24:32left I don't know well what time do you
4:24:34think you got to the
4:24:36museum oh God I don't even remember um
4:24:41morning after afterno night I think it
4:24:44was pretty like decent time in the
4:24:46morning I bet you we got there at like
4:24:4811: or so cuz I remember it took us
4:24:50probably like an hour an hour and a half
4:24:52to walk through it I think it was it's a
4:24:54small Museum and then after that we were
4:24:57going to go to lunch in Boulder and then
4:25:01we decided not to and then um we just
4:25:05went to we went to his house and I
4:25:07dropped him off because I had picked him
4:25:09up to go to the museum so I dropped him
4:25:11off at you're driving your
4:25:144Runner yeah we we drove my 4Runner all
4:25:16the time I told her it was only in his
4:25:18vehicle one time and I think it was like
4:25:19so he could go get gas or something like
4:25:21everything all these Adventures were all
4:25:23done in my truck
4:25:25okay um so then uh we went to his
4:25:30house and um we were over there for a
4:25:34little while but then I was just like I
4:25:36don't really want to be here so I left
4:25:38and I left him there he didn't go with
4:25:40me at his home um
4:25:43yeah like I left him there okay um and I
4:25:46left by myself and then
4:25:50um the weekend
4:25:54of the
4:25:5721st and this is how you'll know if my
4:25:59dates are lined up I would base it off
4:26:00of this date and work your way backwards
4:26:02but like um this weekend I went to
4:26:06bandier Speedway with
4:26:08him and I went and saw
4:26:12I think it was called the Mopar Mile
4:26:14High Nationals it might have been called
4:26:16Thunder on the mountain I don't know it
4:26:18was the drag races though and it was on
4:26:21yeah Saturday the 21st
4:26:24okay and we were there like the majority
4:26:28of the day I
4:26:30think I think we got there like early
4:26:33afternoon and we were there till it
4:26:36ended pretty much was that uh late in
4:26:39the
4:26:40evening yeah those things go pretty late
4:26:42like it gets
4:26:45dark okay so you guys so you drove did
4:26:48you pick him up again and then drive
4:26:50your truck or or your 4Runner right it's
4:26:53a 4Runner drive your four I didn't pick
4:26:56him up no I didn't I didn't pick him up
4:26:57again because I never went back to his
4:26:59house like he came to my house and then
4:27:01we car pulled okay so he drove to your
4:27:04house you guys carpol down to the myoh
4:27:07high Nationals and you stay the majority
4:27:08of the day is there anybody with you
4:27:10guys on any of these dates or is it just
4:27:12Sho to it just us
4:27:15okay did you um have meals anywhere
4:27:18after you left there did you stop at any
4:27:20bars or
4:27:22anything um okay so that day I'm glad
4:27:24you brought that up um prior to
4:27:28going to uh bamir we went to
4:27:34um what is the name of that little town
4:27:38it's not Evergreen it's like in between
4:27:40Lakewood Morrison Mor to
4:27:43Morrison and there's a patio bar there
4:27:47um I do not know what it is called it's
4:27:50on top of an Italian pizza place I think
4:27:53it's literally called like the Morrison
4:27:55grill or Morrison patio bar like
4:27:57something real simple um and we went
4:28:01it's just like a rooftop bar um and you
4:28:04went before the the drag
4:28:06races yeah we went before the drag
4:28:09races okay and we hung out yeah and we
4:28:12hung out there probably for a while I
4:28:15think we were there for a little while
4:28:17we ate there so that's where we gotun
4:28:20there yeah we did
4:28:23okay
4:28:25tacos okay this is a really good bar by
4:28:29the way um yeah so we we we um we did
4:28:34that and then we went to banir and then
4:28:37I don't know what we did after bamir I
4:28:39think we just went to my house I'm
4:28:41almost positive like I don't think we
4:28:43did anything after that cuz it was
4:28:44pretty late
4:28:46okay and then on the weekend of July
4:28:5328th through the
4:28:5529th um we went to the S we went to the
4:28:59Great Sand national park down in
4:29:03Alamosa
4:29:05yes July 28th 29th did you guys stay
4:29:10anywhere what did you where did where
4:29:12did you
4:29:14say oh we can't okay we can't I don't
4:29:19remember the name of a campsite but if
4:29:21you like just let me go through probably
4:29:24like my old clone nav or like go through
4:29:29just the Internet and try to look up
4:29:30campsites I can probably come up with
4:29:32the name for you let me ask you this
4:29:34there was um some attachments that um
4:29:37when I was looking at some of your phone
4:29:39stuff today although very limited
4:29:41there's a a man with a
4:29:44backpack um he's got a
4:29:47beard he does not look like Chris to me
4:29:50in in your photos do you know who I'm
4:29:52talking
4:29:53about yeah is he like a little heavier
4:29:55set yeah I'd say he's a little bit
4:29:58bigger yes that is my friend Jim that is
4:30:01the one that I was with on the Monday
4:30:05and Tuesday last week okay so there is
4:30:08some photographs you mentioned the
4:30:10museum the car museum I think I remember
4:30:12seeing a couple photos of cars and it
4:30:15didn't strike me as anything then um so
4:30:18there may be a little bit more on your
4:30:19phone than what I think uh but there is
4:30:22definitely no photos of Chris and I
4:30:24don't remember seeing um any pictures of
4:30:27the sandunes but so did you camp inside
4:30:31the national park there no it was
4:30:34outside I think we camped at the pot
4:30:36Falls I think that's the name of the
4:30:38campsite po
4:30:39Falls it's before you come to the you
4:30:43you turn off 160 and you're going
4:30:44towards the sand dunes and then you turn
4:30:46off and kind of go up a four-wheel drive
4:30:48road to Zapata
4:30:50Falls yeah that like really gnarly one
4:30:52with all the switchbacks the Rocks yeah
4:30:56there and so we we camp
4:30:58there um was it like an established
4:31:01Campground or was it just dry camping no
4:31:04it was an established Campground there's
4:31:06a campground up there like you hang that
4:31:07last to go to Z of Falls Trail and then
4:31:09you go right and there's like a big
4:31:11Campground
4:31:12okay so that's where you guys were there
4:31:16yep all right keep
4:31:18going and then um we went to the sand
4:31:22dunes not the first day so we got
4:31:26there fairly late
4:31:29on how did I do how do we get no no no
4:31:32no that's right so I just I need to
4:31:33think about this I really this Saturday
4:31:36we got there we set up camp and then
4:31:40after we set up camp we went
4:31:43to the national park so you you went and
4:31:46hi the whatever the the sand dunes yeah
4:31:50yeah weed I it was super windy oh my God
4:31:53the S Hur so bad I was and then it was
4:31:56it started raining um and we stayed we
4:31:59stayed even though the weather was bad
4:32:01because there was like nobody up there
4:32:03um and so we did that for most of the
4:32:07afternoon and then um we came back to
4:32:11the camp
4:32:12site and I showed him how to light a
4:32:15fire cuz he'd never done it before he'd
4:32:18never lit a
4:32:19fire no he's never been camping before
4:32:22he told me he never been camping before
4:32:24and I was like well if you want to go
4:32:25I'm trying to go to sand so that's why
4:32:27we went because he said you never done
4:32:29it okay
4:32:31um did you guys visit any um there's not
4:32:35really very much stuff around there uh
4:32:37there's no restaurants or anything in
4:32:39that area no so no we this stop at the I
4:32:43think it's called like the Oasis or
4:32:45something um it's like this little it's
4:32:48like on the way to the dunes it's not in
4:32:50the park but it's like on that road that
4:32:52you take to get to the dunes and it's
4:32:55like it's almost like a little gas
4:32:56station and we stopped there and we
4:32:58rented a sand board um to go sand
4:33:01boarding on and um we got I think we got
4:33:06more ice for the cooler I think and we
4:33:08got firewood for so it's like a gas
4:33:10station
4:33:12kind of but it's like the One-Stop shop
4:33:14that everybody goes to because there's
4:33:16like nothing else around there right
4:33:18like you would I'm almost sure I'm
4:33:19almost positive it's called The Oasis
4:33:21and they actually have their own
4:33:22Campground back there too that road it's
4:33:26right before you get to the entrance to
4:33:27the the park yep yep yep yep on the
4:33:31right hand side when you're driving in
4:33:33um I'm glad that you know what I'm
4:33:34talking about well I worked I worked in
4:33:36Southern Colorado for the last 5 years
4:33:38and I spent a lot of time around Alamosa
4:33:40and in the s
4:33:42so I know I know a lot of about that
4:33:45area
4:33:47unfortunately um so I know what you're
4:33:49talking about good that helps me so you
4:33:51you got ice um and
4:33:55firewood yeah and I I'm not sure if we
4:33:57got ice I think we did just because I
4:33:58like to
4:34:01re he did okay did you think he used the
4:34:04deit or the um gift card again probably
4:34:08because that was the plan in the first
4:34:09place he was just like well hey I've got
4:34:11these gift cards if you want to use them
4:34:15you don't even have to spend any money
4:34:16and we can just use these and I was like
4:34:20well that's great so I remember for the
4:34:21trip I filled up my gas tank and I paid
4:34:24for gas and I bought a little bit of
4:34:26groceries uh for the cooler and then um
4:34:30he took care of like the campsite and
4:34:33the board and the firewood and all of
4:34:37that okay like I didn't actually go into
4:34:39that Oasis Place I don't think I'm was
4:34:41positive I didn't go in there he did I I
4:34:44got in line for the board I remember
4:34:46that but their their like little board
4:34:48rental shop is like outside of the
4:34:52building okay he went inside cuz he went
4:34:54got
4:34:55firewood
4:34:57um and then we went we went to the dun
4:35:01I'm just looking at your dates so you
4:35:03know you're right the bamir speedway the
4:35:05mile high Nationals was July
4:35:0821st yeah that's what I was going to say
4:35:10get online and see if that
4:35:12it does so all those other dates all
4:35:16those other dates should be good the
4:35:17only one that I'm not 100% sure about is
4:35:19the movie it was that weekend that movie
4:35:22on the 6th and the 7th it was that
4:35:25weekend I just don't remember what day
4:35:27of the weekend I think I don't think it
4:35:29was a Sunday though I really think it
4:35:30was a Friday or Saturday like I'm almost
4:35:32positive I didn't have to work in the
4:35:33morning all right so what's after uh the
4:35:37Great Sand Dunes okay so we went to the
4:35:40the dunes and then um we went and return
4:35:42the board and then we went back to the
4:35:44campsite and we l a fire and we ate and
4:35:48we just hung out by the fire for a few
4:35:50hours and just visited and then it
4:35:52started raining really hard so we put
4:35:56everything in the tent and put out the
4:35:58fire and we went in the tent and I
4:36:02remember he was like wide awake and I
4:36:06was so tired like oh my God I wanted to
4:36:09sleep so bad and he just like not sleep
4:36:12and it was kind of bugging me like I
4:36:14would I think I would I would like
4:36:16almost like wake up and like half
4:36:18subconsciously like have a conversation
4:36:21with them for a sec and then like doze
4:36:23back off and I just remember being so
4:36:24tired and he was up probably for a
4:36:28while
4:36:30okay and and so you guys come back to
4:36:34the Denver metro area on Sunday Kind of
4:36:38yeah but so we went um
4:36:42one of my friends wanted us to go to the
4:36:43Renaissance Festival and she didn't know
4:36:45who I was with but she was just like and
4:36:48the Renaissance Festival in car springs
4:36:50and she was like oh you should stop by
4:36:52and I made up an excuse to not go over
4:36:55there I just told I was like yeah I
4:36:56don't really know you know and I like
4:36:58kind of got out of it because I didn't
4:37:00want her to meet him I got it what
4:37:04friend was
4:37:05that Charlotte okay so did Charlotte
4:37:08ever meet
4:37:09Chris no none of my friends met
4:37:14him
4:37:16okay and then
4:37:20um on the way back up we stopped in
4:37:23Colorado Springs to eat and we stopped
4:37:27at a restaurant called
4:37:30DJs on Nevada and
4:37:33I25 uh honestly I don't know I mean I
4:37:37just remember right by the University of
4:37:40Colorado there's a bunch of buildings
4:37:42and it's a big strip center there's like
4:37:44a
4:37:46Costco oh wait I think I remember the
4:37:49Costco I think I remember Costco CU
4:37:50don't you kind of have to like like from
4:37:52the highway you can like see not the
4:37:54highway but that main road you can like
4:37:56see the Costco and then you have to kind
4:37:58of like turn in and around into that
4:38:00shopping
4:38:01center yeah that's the one okay BJ's
4:38:05it's more like a um brew house I guess
4:38:08kind of yes yes and it's like really
4:38:10nice that's it's just like it's like a
4:38:13nice restaurant I mean not like nice but
4:38:14it's just like it's yeah it's a decent
4:38:18place so that would have been it's a big
4:38:20place that's what I was looking for it's
4:38:21a big restaurant Sunday July
4:38:2629th that uh what what what would that
4:38:30have been Sunday July
4:38:3129th yeah it was Sunday July 29th and if
4:38:34you w in the restaurant so picture
4:38:37walking in um and the front door are
4:38:41behind you we were set to the right on
4:38:47the like first level like there's
4:38:49there's like a few different levels so
4:38:51we were sat on the right side and then
4:38:54in the right side we were on the like
4:38:57left portion of the section on the right
4:39:00side like there there little like single
4:39:02cater boots they're really small okay so
4:39:06almost like in the center of the
4:39:08restaurant almost but just like kind of
4:39:10on the right section of the the main
4:39:15floor okay okay did you pay did he again
4:39:18pay with a gift card at that time yes
4:39:24okay all
4:39:26right and then we went
4:39:31home okay did you see him the following
4:39:35weekend uh no cuz he was out of
4:39:39town okay do you know where he went
4:39:42yeah went do you remember the
4:39:46dates uh no I think I think
4:39:51ah I want to say that he left on the
4:39:5431st of
4:39:56July I'm almost positive because we hung
4:39:59out the weekend prior at the sand dunes
4:40:02and then he went to work on Monday the
4:40:0430th I remember that and then I think he
4:40:09left on Tuesday Tuesday the 31st of July
4:40:13I think and I don't remember when he got
4:40:18home
4:40:19okay next time you guys go
4:40:23out uh was
4:40:26that Saturday Saturday the 11th and you
4:40:31guys and that was yeah the story yeah
4:40:35okay so we got that all down what's next
4:40:38on your
4:40:39list um sorry I was not I forgot about
4:40:43all that stuff and I didn't that's all
4:40:46right so we ran through something that I
4:40:48I'm you know the first time we talked
4:40:50you were really tired the second time
4:40:52you were overly stressed and you had
4:40:55thought of some very important stuff
4:40:56that you wanted to talk about so it's
4:40:57fine and I don't mind talking to you as
4:41:00many times as I have to talk to you to
4:41:02get everything down that could attent
4:41:05you know at some point be very important
4:41:08it's fine so just don't worry about that
4:41:11I you know my job is to talk to you and
4:41:14make sure that this stuff is um you know
4:41:17placed in in a a report so it's there
4:41:20forever so it's it's fine again I I just
4:41:25keep telling you every time you when you
4:41:26remember things just call me and and
4:41:28we'll get it down all right okay okay
4:41:31yeah and I hope you guys pull cameras
4:41:33and all that because it's like I'm
4:41:34trying to help you I'm like I'm really
4:41:36honestly disappointed that you guys
4:41:39don't have all my text messages or don't
4:41:41think that you do like it makes me sad
4:41:43like I really I want you guys to have
4:41:46them like you need them and it's it's
4:41:48frustrating to me but it's like I'll
4:41:49just tell you everything right now and
4:41:51we'll go from there um hold
4:41:54on
4:41:58H hold on what
4:42:01else oh okay so now let's go to this
4:42:06last week
4:42:09okay um
4:42:15let
4:42:17see okay um so
4:42:22Monday I think probably the most
4:42:25important conversation that I've had I
4:42:27had with him after all of that took
4:42:30place was that first phone
4:42:32conversation on
4:42:35Monday night like the later one remember
4:42:39I told you were telling me there's two
4:42:40big ones
4:42:41right and the first one was the one
4:42:43where he
4:42:44mentioned the sheets the smelly sheets
4:42:47with his kids and that was also for the
4:42:49one where he was telling me he was going
4:42:51to go get his wife's wedding ring
4:42:53appraised um that same
4:42:57conversation he I don't remember exactly
4:43:01how he phrased this like I don't
4:43:03remember like what led to this but he
4:43:06told
4:43:07me
4:43:09um something about like he mentioned
4:43:15that he had told I don't know what he
4:43:19said he said something about the
4:43:20separation and how like she was okay
4:43:23with with the fact that he wanted a
4:43:25separation or that um something like
4:43:28that and I remember thinking to myself
4:43:31like wait a
4:43:34minute
4:43:36um what God I don't I'm like drawing a
4:43:40blank here's deal is like he had been
4:43:43telling me the whole time that I was
4:43:45like spending time with him that he was
4:43:48getting separated getting separated and
4:43:50he kept saying that he was the one who
4:43:53initially initiated the separation and
4:43:56then that it
4:43:58was more of a mutual thing like he said
4:44:01that he was the one who had initially
4:44:02brought it up okay like before we had
4:44:05met and then like she was on board with
4:44:07it where she was just like I'm not happy
4:44:09either let's do this um um and then I um
4:44:14I remember telling you guys that when he
4:44:16was going to go to North Carolina I kind
4:44:18of like backed away from the situation
4:44:20and I was like hey I think you should
4:44:22try to fix things with her because you
4:44:24have a really beautiful life with her
4:44:26and I think you should try to fix stuff
4:44:28and he kept telling me like you know I
4:44:30don't want to I don't think she wants to
4:44:33and I was just like please try like just
4:44:36please try like I just thought he had
4:44:38such a beautiful life and and you know
4:44:40and I was willing to just leave like
4:44:42leave his life I was like if you work
4:44:44things out with your wife I'm gone and
4:44:46like I and and that's fine you know and
4:44:48and he'd always be like what about us
4:44:49and I be like don't worry about us like
4:44:51try to fix stuff with her and he said
4:44:52okay I will and then when he went to
4:44:54North
4:44:55Carolina he told me that he sat down and
4:44:59had a conversation with her and that he
4:45:01told her that he wanted to fix it that
4:45:03was what he said to me he told her that
4:45:05he wanted to fix it and she said no that
4:45:08she still wanted the separation and that
4:45:10she was ready to file for divorce so I
4:45:13was under the impression when he got
4:45:14home from North Carolina that the
4:45:16divorce was filed that was what I was
4:45:19under the impression and
4:45:22so then on Monday when we were on that
4:45:25one phone call where he was just saying
4:45:28all sorts of weird stuff he like again
4:45:31like I don't remember exactly what was
4:45:32said but it was something along the
4:45:34lines of
4:45:35like um she was okay with the fact that
4:45:38I wanted the separation right and and
4:45:41then I remember asking him I was like
4:45:43wait a minute when you were in North
4:45:47Carolina you told me that you try to fix
4:45:50it with her and she was the one who said
4:45:53that she didn't want to fix it okay and
4:45:55he's like no I just and then he goes no
4:45:57I just told her that I still wanted you
4:46:00know to continue with the separation and
4:46:04I'm just thinking am I had
4:46:06like he lied to me God he [ __ ] lied
4:46:09to me he lied so much much it's okay so
4:46:13that just struck you as another
4:46:15lie yeah so that one I don't yeah well
4:46:19and then now I'm seeing the news where
4:46:20he's telling everybody that he separated
4:46:23from her on that he said he was he told
4:46:26everyone in the separation on the Monday
4:46:28that she went missing and I'm just
4:46:29thinking in my head like he told me that
4:46:32he had already had that conversation
4:46:33with her before I was in even in his
4:46:35life well and so not to cause you any
4:46:39more stress but so when you're talking
4:46:41to him on Monday this is Monday right
4:46:44this isn't Sunday this is Monday Monday
4:46:48so this is
4:46:49after the event this is after the
4:46:52murders yes he he is telling you that he
4:46:56she mentioned uh that it was she was
4:46:59okay with the separation although you
4:47:01know now that um that wasn't accurate
4:47:05with those that was something different
4:47:07than he had previously told you and
4:47:10certainly she could have been really
4:47:12saying anything
4:47:13unfortunately so I mean he's making he's
4:47:16making up stories after his wife is
4:47:19deceased is that a fair statement is
4:47:22that I'm I'm kind of trying to follow
4:47:23where you're going I I don't honestly I
4:47:26it just struck me as odd because I don't
4:47:29know if he was talking about the
4:47:31conversation they had had that day or if
4:47:33he was talking about North Carolina but
4:47:35either way it just struck you
4:47:37as it it struck me weird because he said
4:47:41that he was the one that was like
4:47:44pushing for it now and I was just
4:47:46thinking in the back of my head like he
4:47:49he made it sound like when I first got
4:47:52into his life that he was the one who
4:47:54had brought up the separation but that
4:47:56she was like super gung-ho about it like
4:47:58he made it sound like she was all on
4:48:00board with it and then when they were in
4:48:02North Carolina he's the one who said
4:48:03that he tried to fix it and she would
4:48:05didn't want anything to do with it so it
4:48:07was weird to me when he was saying that
4:48:08he was the one that initiated the
4:48:10separation cuz I'm like wait a minute
4:48:11like and I think it was weird to me
4:48:14because I think he was referring to to
4:48:16either whatever happened on Monday
4:48:18morning or he was referring to whatever
4:48:20happened in North Carolina and I was
4:48:21just really confused because I was like
4:48:24well at that point I thought she was the
4:48:26one pushing you away like not you
4:48:28pushing her gotcha okay all right um so
4:48:32I don't I don't it's just a lie I mean
4:48:33honestly I don't know if it has any
4:48:34significance was just it was just a lie
4:48:36that I caught him and I don't I mean I
4:48:38think everything he told me was a lie
4:48:39but it was like a lie on top of it's a
4:48:42lie that contradicted the previous lies
4:48:44that he had told me I understand what's
4:48:47next on your list um let me
4:48:50see okay so then in that same exact
4:48:54conversation two more things happened
4:48:56okay one um I was asking him about his
4:49:01daughter's EpiPen because I know that
4:49:04CeCe has that treut allergy okay and I
4:49:08was like I was was
4:49:12like again like I don't remember like
4:49:14word for work but it was something along
4:49:15the lines of like she didn't take your
4:49:17daughter's epip pen and he was like No
4:49:20And I was like well aren't you a little
4:49:24because I was like trying to do my own
4:49:25reconnaissance and I was like aren't you
4:49:26worried about that and he's like he's
4:49:29like well we have like a stash of them
4:49:31in the basement or something like that
4:49:32and he's like she probably just took one
4:49:34of those and I just thought it was weird
4:49:37because several weeks earlier he had
4:49:39told me how with epipens worse I'm like
4:49:42if they're not expensive how how do you
4:49:45have a stash you don't have a stash
4:49:46nobody can afford a stash right they're
4:49:49very
4:49:50expensive yeah so I almost was
4:49:54like right here is
4:49:59good all right I'll be right back all
4:50:01right just going to get Samm can
4:50:04introduce yourself all right okay be
4:50:05right
4:50:09back for
4:50:14[Music]
4:50:23[Applause]
4:50:31[Music]
4:50:48all right
4:50:49yeah these rooms are recorded okay so
4:50:52anything saying here subject to
4:50:55recording just so you know and you said
4:50:58on your text that you might have
4:50:59remembered some more stuff so let's do
4:51:01your phones first um I need to they gave
4:51:04me a piece of paper to transfer my
4:51:06contact wouldn't do it for me but you
4:51:09should be able to just put them on the I
4:51:11I don't
4:51:13know how to do
4:51:16this they said to follow his app I can't
4:51:18even find the app store on this
4:51:21phone is it Android
4:51:24yeah so strange I
4:51:29um I tried to transfer all the stuff
4:51:32from this phone to this phone last night
4:51:34and I started thinking out like old text
4:51:36like stuff I don't even have saved in
4:51:38here or any of them from Chris yeah a
4:51:40few but not many it's pretty short
4:51:43there's like 10 or 12 and there's like a
4:51:45few from those days but most of it is hi
4:51:49hello this is
4:51:52Tammy meet you I'm Stacy G nice to meet
4:51:56you how are you doing all right getting
4:51:59through it trying yeah stressing out
4:52:03stressing out yeah you look stressed out
4:52:06did you get some therapy figured out I'm
4:52:08waiting for good to get back to me
4:52:13that yeah does Hazel need to yeah we're
4:52:16GNA see if Hazel comes in so w county is
4:52:19just I had to write a letter yesterday
4:52:22for w County to approve um to pay for
4:52:25her treatment oh and it's got to go
4:52:28through a board because it's kind of
4:52:30unusual since she's not an eyewitness
4:52:33right but uh it sounded like there was
4:52:35not going to opposition to it it's just
4:52:37a process yeah okay so when you go
4:52:40through the text messages Tammy and
4:52:42probably Stacy will be there okay so you
4:52:44guys know each other um or if they reach
4:52:47out to you you know that they're
4:52:48not can you just give me your
4:52:52cards okay I just now with this new
4:52:54phone it's like I got so many numbers
4:52:56that I I'm sure I can figure I need to
4:52:59just deal with that like if you guys can
4:53:00help me get all my contacts from this
4:53:02phone so I can give a tech guy maybe to
4:53:04help help me cuz I gave me instructions
4:53:08this is your old phone this is the one
4:53:10that I use for communication this is the
4:53:12one that's going to you good this one's
4:53:14mine This rer I Know iPhones suck I'm
4:53:17kind ofed to have this P okay so you're
4:53:19going to you want to move contacts from
4:53:21there to there that's all I want to do
4:53:22once you guys do that then you guys can
4:53:24have this phone I mean he gave me a a
4:53:27way to do it so I think I need to
4:53:28connect to Wi-Fi and then I need to
4:53:31download this app and then I think once
4:53:34I download it I can sync it up and I
4:53:36need to just download the app on both
4:53:38phones so let me get a guy who knows
4:53:42about Wi-Fi is your password still 6530
4:53:4638 yeah that so that's going to be that
4:53:48one and which which one is getting all
4:53:51the new text messages your new phone
4:53:53I've only got a few and they're like now
4:53:55I get what you're saying like they're
4:53:56out of order they're scrambled they're
4:53:58missing they don't make sense I got
4:54:01super excited when I saw them cuz I was
4:54:03like maybe it'll be all but it's not
4:54:06so maybe what I'll ask we have a device
4:54:09that maybe we can download that too this
4:54:11one too sorry I mean I don't know if
4:54:13that'll work but we can try it here
4:54:15thank you thank you and then Kev knows
4:54:18how to get a hold of us after hours or
4:54:20whatever thato I
4:54:24apprciate okay are you giving her a
4:54:27spare phone that she has her own spare
4:54:28phone but when she linked her accounts a
4:54:31bunch of messages between her and Chris
4:54:33were recovered on our new phone okay so
4:54:36I'm going to probably just celebrate
4:54:37right now oh okay on our new phone so we
4:54:40don't have take all our phones yeah no
4:54:43are you good in here for a bit okay some
4:54:45water or anything please
4:54:52okay okay so
4:54:55[Music]
4:55:10[Music]
4:55:35[Music]
4:55:45[Music]
4:55:49thank water apprciate anything else okay
4:55:52I'll be here in just a few minutes
4:56:00[Music]
4:56:06[Music]
4:56:09okay
4:56:14[Music]
4:56:27[Music]
4:56:36[Music]
4:56:39for
4:56:47[Music]
4:57:00[Music]
4:57:09for for
4:57:40[Music]
4:57:50[Music]
4:58:06con
4:58:15[Music]
4:58:27[Music]
4:58:39to for
4:58:45[Music]
4:59:25[Music]
4:59:35f
4:59:38i just so much
4:59:40fing
5:00:08[ __ ]
5:00:18[Music]
5:00:38for for
5:00:43[Music]
5:00:55[Music]
5:01:04[Music]
5:01:15[Music]
5:01:21oh my
5:01:23[Music]
5:01:37[Music]
5:01:47[Music]
5:01:58[Music]
5:02:04what f
5:02:13[Music]
5:02:25[Music]
5:02:28all right teet guys teet guys coming to
5:02:31help us I just I would do it myself but
5:02:34it's like there's so many different not
5:02:36I haven't used this phone in years and
5:02:38like right now so it's not very new this
5:02:41is old I haven't used this since like
5:02:452016 and so all these numbers on here
5:02:48are numbers of people I've gotten since
5:02:50then what I don't want is with like the
5:02:52media and all this other stuff going on
5:02:54is have a phone just full of unknown
5:02:57content sure I did it so he's going to
5:02:59come over and turn your Wi-Fi on and
5:03:02figure out how to move he
5:03:04knows do that I give
5:03:08up okay
5:03:11so your phone this time do you have any
5:03:13objections to us looking at everything
5:03:15in your phone why do you guys need that
5:03:17I'm just curious like why do you need
5:03:18everything as opposed
5:03:20to well because it's easier to get and
5:03:24if we're looking
5:03:26at all the material let's say I take
5:03:29everything off your phone I can put a
5:03:30date in like let's say August 10th
5:03:33through the 15th because those are
5:03:34critical days but other conversations
5:03:38between you and Chris or other text
5:03:40messages between you and Chris
5:03:43from uh June or July then it makes it
5:03:46harder for me to find all those do you
5:03:48understand what I mean it's easier for
5:03:49them to just take everything I don't
5:03:51know are they yeah I mean except for
5:03:54when I first met him it was such an easy
5:03:56thing okay and then what about U your
5:04:00phone log it's always his 910 number all
5:04:04the time right like it's always that one
5:04:06or originally was his we talked about
5:04:08your GPS uh located like knowing where
5:04:12your phone is at certain times I mean
5:04:14you guys can have all that I just was
5:04:15like oh my God I have so many texts on
5:04:17here between me and all my friends I'm
5:04:18like do they really want all this stuff
5:04:20well is there anything in those text
5:04:23that you'd be concerned with not really
5:04:25so well not really you're yes or no no I
5:04:28mean like I the other day my dad and I
5:04:31decided to do some damage control cuz a
5:04:33lot of people were like hey me call me I
5:04:34don't know what to say and I just told
5:04:36them all like I didn't say anything I
5:04:38pretty much just said mayat TR contact
5:04:41you tell them no comment it's like
5:04:44please be nice to them you do not need
5:04:46to talk to them it was like I'm safe not
5:04:49in trouble been breaking laws I was just
5:04:51like just send your love and support and
5:04:53that was all I said to people so did
5:04:56that prompt all the phone calls of
5:04:57people going are you okay they were
5:04:59prompting me that is why I did that
5:05:02because I didn't even want to like say
5:05:04that but I was getting all sorts of
5:05:06texts from people that were like media
5:05:08is trying to contact me I don't know
5:05:09what to do I didn't tell them that I was
5:05:12a witness I didn't tell them anything
5:05:15about that it was just like just say no
5:05:17comment I need you to do this okay and
5:05:20then a couple of my like super super
5:05:22close friends I asked them if they would
5:05:23be cous enough to take all the pictures
5:05:25that we had of each other on Facebook
5:05:27and social media and they said yes and
5:05:29that was like a couple of really close
5:05:31spread is there any text messages
5:05:34between you and friends that reference
5:05:36anything that would be
5:05:37concerning regarding this case
5:05:40no like talking about Chris I think you
5:05:43told me that you've never even really
5:05:44talked with my friends about him no and
5:05:47like my friend dad died last night like
5:05:50yesterday I'm not wor about that no I
5:05:52know but she started like oh my God she
5:05:55was really drunk last night she started
5:05:57like freaking out she's like I don't
5:05:58know what's going on in your life she's
5:06:00like I don't know if it pertains to this
5:06:02case and she like just sent me like a
5:06:04screenshot of a news article of that
5:06:06case and she was just like she's like
5:06:09what about conversation I I didn't
5:06:11mention that it had anything to do with
5:06:13that she's like I don't know that's what
5:06:15it is he works at in the dark goost
5:06:17she's like I really don't give a [ __ ]
5:06:18she's like I just really need you to be
5:06:20here with me and my dad and this and
5:06:22this and this and she was just kind of
5:06:24upset because I had asked her um to
5:06:27please say no comments in the media and
5:06:29it happened to be like right when her
5:06:31dad died and I think she was feeling a
5:06:33little
5:06:34like yeah but I mean you guys can read
5:06:36this there's nothing in there of me
5:06:38actually saying anything about it I just
5:06:40P what's your phone number on that phone
5:06:42720 it's the same phone number that's on
5:06:44this one6
5:06:469605 so no I mean you guys can you guys
5:06:50canist so
5:06:51between there was a conversation that I
5:06:53asked you about between you and
5:06:55Charlotte too that's the same girl that
5:06:57the same girl who was freaking out so
5:06:59was there ever a conversation about kids
5:07:01with you and Charlotte like
5:07:03you I can't remember the exact context
5:07:06but you guys were talking hanging out
5:07:07with a guy who had kids kids okay and
5:07:11she has not even like all right so your
5:07:14conversation about him having kids how
5:07:17did that go I mean I don't know I just
5:07:19told
5:07:20her uh did you delete that or is it I
5:07:24know I I have no reason to delete
5:07:27anything else in my phone the reason I
5:07:28deleted all this stuff with Chris is
5:07:31because he was making me feel really
5:07:33uncomfortable and I didn't want to see
5:07:35it in my phone anymore um yeah let me
5:07:38scroll all the way back camera and this
5:07:40girl talk no she is like so let's just
5:07:43while we're here
5:07:45because we talked about this before but
5:07:47we didn't talk about the specific
5:07:49context of what that message said
5:07:51regarding to children so
5:07:54obviously the situation that we're
5:07:56looking at now with uh the death of two
5:07:59children and all the other
5:08:01circumstantial stuff going around in the
5:08:03case you I just want to make sure there
5:08:05was no comments ever made by you
5:08:08regarding you know
5:08:10children or dislike of children or love
5:08:13children either way you know what I mean
5:08:16yeah I
5:08:21guess
5:08:28start you guys can just take whatever
5:08:30you want so it it's
5:08:35easier for me to just take everything
5:08:38than it is to single it out plus for the
5:08:42purposes of this case the less exposure
5:08:45you know we already have
5:08:48a initially you drew concern from me
5:08:52when you told me you deleted everything
5:08:53from Chris I've already told you that
5:08:56you understand why there's no question
5:08:59as to why that might cause concern so if
5:09:01there's anything else that ever comes up
5:09:03I have it and then we can just discuss
5:09:04it do you understand what I mean all
5:09:06right
5:09:13it's
5:09:17right she
5:09:21starts right
5:09:23there she starts talking about her and
5:09:26her fiance so that was like weeks ago
5:09:42and she hasn't brought it up since
5:09:44really or like connected the thoughts or
5:09:46like said [ __ ] I mean you guys can look
5:09:49through all those
5:09:58[Music]
5:10:01texts and I don't know when that was
5:10:04that was definitely when things were
5:10:05going good so this is like weeks prior
5:10:08I'm just assuming
5:10:10I think the day is at the top of
5:10:11whenever we started texting that
5:10:14day this
5:10:17is we talk a lot August 7th yeah
5:10:22so I reference everything this Sunday
5:10:26the
5:10:27[Music]
5:10:3212th so have family conversation like
5:10:35that on there I believe on my phone I
5:10:37don't think there's like anything else
5:10:39and she even last night like still
5:10:41wasn't even she's
5:10:47[Music]
5:11:12[Music]
5:11:15other than that there shouldn't really
5:11:16be anything
5:11:17on other people but you guys can just
5:11:20blow anything off that point as long as
5:11:22you're okay with that that's would be me
5:11:24that makes your life easier it's not
5:11:26just about making it easier it's just
5:11:28less so if there's any question like I
5:11:32told you before some like the two girls
5:11:34you just met did a lot of interviews in
5:11:36this case they've done a lot of work
5:11:37they may know things that I don't
5:11:39there's no way we can all know
5:11:40everything so they might go oh because
5:11:43somebody else is the one who told me
5:11:44about Charlotte um and this message so
5:11:47I've never read this probably why
5:11:49potentially I'm assuming that that's
5:11:51what that
5:11:54is cuz I said his
5:11:57name and I don't even think she's put
5:11:59two and two together because last night
5:12:01it was just like the way she was talking
5:12:03she wasn't like this is him this is it
5:12:06she's like I don't know what's going on
5:12:08I just asse this is this guy worked
5:12:11Darko but she is not even like
5:12:31processing what do you mean I can tell
5:12:34he has a lot to take care of in life
5:12:36what did you mean when you said that he
5:12:38has morage as kids okay
5:12:46responsibility
5:12:49[Music]
5:12:56house you're even saying in here he's
5:12:58all about his
5:13:00kids
5:13:02yeah and she was like asking me
5:13:04somewhere in there
5:13:06like I mean everything I had to say
5:13:09about him at that point was like really
5:13:12positive like I think I made it clear
5:13:15that I wasn't like 100% sure this is
5:13:17like the man of my dreams and I was
5:13:19going to spend the rest of my life with
5:13:20him or anything but I was enjoying the
5:13:23time that I was spending with him at
5:13:25that
5:13:29point your referencing that he has two
5:13:32kids and
5:13:33then you don't like
5:13:35that um because you want to have that
5:13:38experience with somebody else is that I
5:13:41just said I wasn't sure if he was the
5:13:44one that I wanted to be with cuz he had
5:13:45already like done everything okay like I
5:13:48was like it would be really nice to kind
5:13:49of
5:13:52like have kids and have my own marriage
5:13:56and all of that stuff that was never
5:13:59anything I could to him
5:14:02[Music]
5:14:10[Music]
5:14:15so she said you said he's handsome huh
5:14:17did you send her a
5:14:19picture and that's not attached here is
5:14:21that because what you you think from
5:14:24what you deleted get from when I deleted
5:14:26all my photos of his
5:14:36stuff he's kind of short
5:14:42I mean I talked to her in a way that I
5:14:44wouldn't like talk to him if like my
5:14:46girl you know what I'm saying I get it
5:14:48no I'm just I'm just teasing you a
5:14:50little bit
5:14:55[Music]
5:15:25so you're just talking about shoes and
5:15:28other
5:15:30stuff okay I brought it up again last
5:15:33night but she didn't brought what that
5:15:35Cas but she didn't like connect the B
5:15:39she was like freaking out with her
5:15:42dad she was really upset she wanted me
5:15:45to come see her on Saturday because it's
5:15:47his so
5:15:48unexpected kind of sort of he
5:15:51had Parkinson so kind of but not you
5:15:56know what I'm saying it was a very drawn
5:15:57out thing um but she's having a really
5:15:59hard time with it I knew she would and
5:16:01she just like she's like can you be the
5:16:03Wake on Saturday and I was like I'm
5:16:05really hasn't to leave the house and I
5:16:07didn't tell her that but I was like I
5:16:09don't know I'm I'll try and I'm going to
5:16:12go but I'm not going to tell her and
5:16:14like right before I get to be there and
5:16:16she what does she reference left just is
5:16:19Chris the guy I'm I'm more interested no
5:16:21she didn't even ask me if she was just
5:16:23like she's like I don't know what's
5:16:26going on she's like you can see
5:16:29it so you mentioned on your text before
5:16:33you come in that there was other
5:16:36information that you thought of that was
5:16:38important
5:16:40yeah get so
5:16:43sidetracked I'll look at this where you
5:16:45do that and then I'll show you where it
5:16:47is so much in here like I would just say
5:16:50you guys talk a lot oh yeah she's like
5:16:53my right here so first she sends me this
5:16:56and she's not even asking me about him
5:16:58she's saying he looks like her ex that's
5:17:01when she first brings him up she doesn't
5:17:04even mention me at that
5:17:06point I don't even think she realized
5:17:08it's the same guy like legitimately I
5:17:12think this girl is so wrapped up in all
5:17:13the stuff that she's got going on right
5:17:15now that I don't think it's even
5:17:17profing I mean you can just tell by the
5:17:20way that she
5:17:22like
5:17:27talks see she's all upset cuz I asked
5:17:30her to not talk to the media and it
5:17:32happened to be the day that the dad died
5:17:33and I'm sitting here trying to comfort
5:17:36her is this your best friend
5:17:39yes this girl like my whole
5:17:42world all
5:17:46right but you're not talking about
5:17:49children or your relationship with Chris
5:17:51or anything like that no the only time I
5:17:53ever mentioned him was like that one day
5:17:56and I didn't even remember that I even
5:17:57had like said that to her cuz I just
5:18:00what's her phone number um 720
5:18:05425
5:18:077330 so I'm not going to call her but at
5:18:09some
5:18:10point you might want to talk to her just
5:18:13so you know I mean sooner or later she's
5:18:15going to connect the dots or you're
5:18:16going to tell her right if she's your
5:18:18best friend I'm not going to tell her if
5:18:20she figures it out she figures it out
5:18:24okay um if we were going to talk to her
5:18:27I'd let you know beforehand is that fair
5:18:29yeah just so I can give her head up and
5:18:32she apologize she was being kind of
5:18:35czy she was so tell me about the
5:18:39that you
5:18:40remember okay um see right here Hold
5:18:45on said look man I know you work at Anna
5:18:48Darko he did too I know he murdered his
5:18:50wife and kids I know he was a dog I know
5:18:52you're my best friend I know you have a
5:18:54good heart I know that you got that guy
5:18:56needs to go to jail and he will I know
5:18:58you don't want publicity neither what I
5:19:00I know that as a witness if you say
5:19:02anything it can cause a mistrial I know
5:19:05you don't want that neither do I [ __ ]
5:19:06the media I want my best friend here I
5:19:09never [ __ ] said anything to her about
5:19:11a trial okay so see look she goes she
5:19:15goes I don't even care if you flirted
5:19:16with him or more I know you had nothing
5:19:18to do with what happened and I don't
5:19:20care if your job is having an open
5:19:21investigation I'm not going to ask you a
5:19:23single question but my pops died and
5:19:25you're my best friend I said please stop
5:19:27talking about that and she said what do
5:19:29you want house arrest and she just keeps
5:19:31saying my father died what the [ __ ] she
5:19:33was not okay last night and I was just
5:19:35trying to like understandable mitigate
5:19:37this um
5:19:39and I was like trying to calm her down
5:19:41and I said Charlotte I'm trying so hard
5:19:42to be the best friend I can to you right
5:19:44now so I don't want to talk to you about
5:19:45that case I didn't say that case I said
5:19:47that case like I wasn't even affiliated
5:19:49with it at all and you need to respect
5:19:51that I'm here for you regarding your
5:19:53daddy you know this and then
5:19:56she's but's freaking out freaking out
5:19:59you guys never had a conversation except
5:20:01for this past text messages about Chris
5:20:04and his children no that was it okay
5:20:06that was it that's fine I mean cuz he
5:20:07wasn't really something that I like
5:20:09super wanted everybody to know about and
5:20:10I shouldn't have even mentioned it when
5:20:12she brought up what she had like going
5:20:13on sexually with her beian and it it
5:20:18happened but at that point you guys are
5:20:19best friends it's understand yeah see
5:20:22and she keeps trying to talk about
5:20:24it she says if you're not under
5:20:27investigation by the police I don't care
5:20:29why can't you attend your so-called best
5:20:30friend's father's death it doesn't make
5:20:32sense to me and all I told her was
5:20:35stop she D yeah and she just is like
5:20:39freaking out and finally I just told her
5:20:42you know getting mad at me is you're
5:20:43going to bring your dad back and that
5:20:46when she chilled okay while she kind of
5:20:48went on another rant but it had nothing
5:20:50to do with Chris and then she apologized
5:20:53to me this morning for being drunk and
5:20:55sad and hungry after dad died what other
5:20:58new
5:21:00information okay um see we got so much
5:21:04going on I didn't even attest
5:21:10you you make sure before you leave you
5:21:12see Hazel you need to get some help I
5:21:15know
5:21:16I'm um oh so he he was talking for a few
5:21:23weeks like
5:21:24he give me a time
5:21:27okay so he went to North Carolina when
5:21:30we came back from North Carolina I was
5:21:33informed sometime either when he was on
5:21:35the trip or when he was like getting
5:21:37back but in that area
5:21:39that they fil for divorce and that
5:21:45um they were going to put the house up
5:21:47and he for sale and he was like she's
5:21:50the one that called the realtor cuz he
5:21:53told me that he had spoke to her when he
5:21:55was in North Carolina about it and then
5:21:57the next day she was the one who called
5:21:59the real you say she shenan yes and when
5:22:03you say the time frame they came back
5:22:06from North Carolina you don't remember
5:22:07the specific dates but
5:22:09like their first or second week of
5:22:10August yeah I I think I told you guys
5:22:13when they left I think he left on
5:22:16Tuesday the 31st of July I do remember
5:22:20you saying that and I don't remember
5:22:23when he came home I really
5:22:26don't I don't remember if it was like so
5:22:28is this a phone conversation or is this
5:22:30a text conversation no um this happened
5:22:34over the fall and he told me that
5:22:39um that was when I had said hey when you
5:22:44go to North Carolina I really think you
5:22:46should try to fix things with your wife
5:22:48and he kept asking what about us and I
5:22:50was trying to kind of take a step back
5:22:52and see if he would fix things before
5:22:55attempting to pursue things with me
5:22:57because I wanted to know
5:22:59that if all of these things he's saying
5:23:03like yes we're getting separated and yes
5:23:05you know all of these things that he's
5:23:07saying are happening are happening I
5:23:09wanted to know that it was like you were
5:23:12doing
5:23:13this like you said you were prior to me
5:23:16coming in your life and it had nothing
5:23:19to do with me you know and so for me it
5:23:22was
5:23:24like I just I really wanted them to fix
5:23:27it I would have just like left the
5:23:29situation so tell me why him shenan
5:23:33calling a realtor and him mentioning
5:23:36that they were going to be divorced why
5:23:38why you think it's important um because
5:23:41so after that he was like she's the one
5:23:43who called the realtor and I remember I
5:23:45was like damn that was fast cuz I knew
5:23:47he told me like we were going to put the
5:23:49house up but they said he was like we
5:23:51didn't know how much to offer for it and
5:23:53we were kind of trying to find somebody
5:23:55and it like so for the first few weeks
5:23:57that I hung out with him he kind of like
5:23:59dragged his feet on hey this is
5:24:01happening and then after North Carolina
5:24:03he's like yeah she wants to put the
5:24:05house up she's the one that called the
5:24:06realt and I was like kind of taken back
5:24:08not necessarily at the speed of it given
5:24:11how long he said that they'd been
5:24:12separating but the fact that she did it
5:24:14like the day after he supposedly sat
5:24:17down and had a conversation with her
5:24:19about hey do we fix this or do we not
5:24:21fix this
5:24:23relationship so do you remember how many
5:24:25days she was back in Colorado before
5:24:27leaving do you know that cuz I don't
5:24:30remember when they got home right I
5:24:32don't I'm just trying to get your memory
5:24:35jog there on that but so this was they
5:24:38get home home he had told you in North
5:24:40Carolina that they agreed to and their
5:24:43finalize their
5:24:44relationship they get home and she
5:24:46immediately wants to sell the house yes
5:24:49and then um so I mean I started thinking
5:24:53okay well I know in Colorado houses fell
5:24:56very fast here so I was like what's your
5:24:59plan you know and I was like cuz you
5:25:01might want to be prepared and I remember
5:25:04that's when the whole concept came up of
5:25:07you probably need to start looking for a
5:25:10new place pretty quick and that was when
5:25:13he was kind of overwhelmed with it and I
5:25:15told him I was like look like I just
5:25:17moved a few months ago um and uh I was
5:25:20like to find a place that was
5:25:22comfortable for me I was like it
5:25:25took like a lot of research and I that's
5:25:29when I offered the help I was like I'll
5:25:31help you and he seemed pretty gung-ho
5:25:34about it for like the first week and he
5:25:37seemed very grateful and I was putting
5:25:40in work on it and I was like calling
5:25:42them and kind of letting them know about
5:25:44places and there really wasn't that many
5:25:46options and brighten um I found one I
5:25:49actually texted it to myself before I
5:25:50texted it to him because I was going I
5:25:53still have that in my phone too um cuz I
5:25:57found it and it was great but it was
5:25:58like right at the beginning of my search
5:26:00and I was like I don't want to in a day
5:26:02hand so you spent a week do you think
5:26:04you worked on that for a week no I
5:26:07honestly I only probably spent like a
5:26:08few hours over a few days and just
5:26:10trying to like line it up just trying to
5:26:12think about how many days she had been
5:26:15back where you were working on that do
5:26:17you know what I'm saying oh so you said
5:26:19did you actually work on it for a week
5:26:21straight no no no no it was just like a
5:26:23couple days after work I would just like
5:26:25spend a couple hours if I had time like
5:26:28at the end of my day or if I didn't go
5:26:29to the gym and just sit down and I mean
5:26:32I can give you a date on one that I
5:26:34worked on CU I texted that one to myself
5:26:36this one I love this one um when is this
5:26:40Saturday August 11th that's the night
5:26:43you guys went out uh
5:26:47yeah to uh The Lazy Dog yes or the two
5:26:51the two lazy dogs yes
5:26:54two all right what else
5:26:58um yeah so the reason that this is
5:27:00important is because
5:27:03he like up to that point seemed like he
5:27:08was all about it you know and I was
5:27:10respecting him I wasn't like oh you need
5:27:11to get this you need to get that I was
5:27:13like what city do you want to live in
5:27:15what side of town is she staying in you
5:27:18know how close do you want to be to work
5:27:20how close do you want to be to your kids
5:27:22I mean I asked him everything I just
5:27:24wanted him to have something that was
5:27:25accommodating for his whole family and
5:27:27he told me that she was probably going
5:27:29to stay in the Frederick area but he
5:27:31never said for sure the first time I
5:27:33asked him he's like I don't know where
5:27:35she's going to go but she'll probably
5:27:36stay in this area and I was like Chris
5:27:38if you're going to get an apartment like
5:27:40you need to figure that out because the
5:27:42last thing you want is to be like an
5:27:44hour drive from your kids it's like you
5:27:46know you you got to be close and so um
5:27:52ended up asking him again like a couple
5:27:54days later and that was when um he was
5:27:57like I think she's staying in the
5:27:59Frederick area and I was like okay and
5:28:01that's when I was like started to get
5:28:02details like where and if you guys find
5:28:04my text you'll see it where I'm asking
5:28:06like where do you want to live like like
5:28:08how close you want to be to her those
5:28:10things like you know um did do you care
5:28:14what jimm you go to like what do you
5:28:16looking for you know you talked about
5:28:17this previously yeah yeah yeah so the
5:28:19thing was is he was like super gungho
5:28:21about it and then on
5:28:23Saturday that day um I remember being
5:28:28outside with him when this conversation
5:28:30happened but I don't know where I don't
5:28:32know if we were like walking into the
5:28:33restaurant or walking to the car but I
5:28:36like vaguely remember being outside with
5:28:39him and I was like he had told me that
5:28:43he wanted to go look at some
5:28:45places the upcoming week and we were
5:28:48supposed to go do that on Wednesday and
5:28:51I was like um I asked him I was like um
5:28:55what places do you want to go see and I
5:28:57was like did you really like that place
5:28:59that I showed you cuz it was just like
5:29:00super convenient for everything and I
5:29:02had a little playground and it had a
5:29:04pool like it would have been awesome for
5:29:06his kids and it was cheap and um and so
5:29:10and it was like close to Frederick it
5:29:12was like it was it was close to the gym
5:29:14it was close to work it was close to me
5:29:16it was close to everything and it was in
5:29:18Brighton which is what he wanted and so
5:29:21um I was like did you want to go check
5:29:23that place out and he's like yeah I
5:29:25guess and he like didn't seem sure
5:29:27anymore and that was the part that I
5:29:29wanted to tell you I just figured I'd
5:29:30give you all the backstory sure um so
5:29:33he's not sure about the particular
5:29:35apartment or about even leaving so
5:29:39he told me that he like he looked at it
5:29:42and he told me that he thought it was
5:29:44nice but it didn't really seem like his
5:29:46interest was that peaked and I was like
5:29:48well did you find anything that you
5:29:50really wanted to look at and he told me
5:29:54yeah that he'd found a few but nothing
5:29:56that really really piqued his interest
5:29:59and I was like you might want to get
5:30:01started and he's like well I I I found
5:30:03one and I asked him I said which one is
5:30:05it because I think I've looked at like
5:30:07every apartment in Brighton and maybe
5:30:09I'll remember it and he's like I don't
5:30:12know I don't remember the name of it and
5:30:14he kind of just
5:30:15like disregarded it and it was kind of
5:30:18strange to me because like the whole
5:30:20week prior he was like so excited that I
5:30:24was trying to help him because he's busy
5:30:26I'm busy so I was like you look I'll
5:30:29look let's see if we can try to narrow
5:30:31it down to like four or five spots and
5:30:33then we'll find something that's good
5:30:35for you and your girls you know and and
5:30:37he seemed like
5:30:38very enthusiastic about
5:30:41it like during the week when the
5:30:43conversations first really started
5:30:45ramping up about
5:30:47like you probably got to figure
5:30:49something out because that house is
5:30:50going to sell really fast you know or at
5:30:53least be prepared and so so why do you
5:30:55think he was removed or not interested
5:30:57in on on your Saturday night wherever
5:31:00you guys were I don't know I mean
5:31:02sometimes like I think about these
5:31:04things and I feel like they're all
5:31:05assumptions but at that point like maybe
5:31:08he already knew something that I didn't
5:31:10I don't know but it was just a complete
5:31:13mood change where he just didn't even
5:31:16seem that interested and I was like okay
5:31:19and I was like well we don't have to do
5:31:21that on Wednesday if you don't want to
5:31:23and he's like no no I know I need to get
5:31:25it
5:31:26done and I was like all right you know
5:31:30cuz I wasn't going to like force him to
5:31:31do it if he doesn't want to do it don't
5:31:33do it just say no you know and I was
5:31:35like and for me I was like I was just
5:31:36offering to help because it's like I
5:31:38know what a tedious task it is trying to
5:31:40find a new blade
5:31:41to
5:31:43um what else any other new info um that
5:31:47part where he was just like really
5:31:48unplugged on Saturday and then there was
5:31:51something else that went with that let
5:31:53me just think for a minute it was
5:31:58um I didn't write all this down I just
5:32:00wrote that part down
5:32:03[Music]
5:32:12I can't believe I can't remember all
5:32:14this
5:32:15stuff remember so much stuff already
5:32:18slowly comes to me all the time well
5:32:21some of this stuff is just things that
5:32:22you would never think about now that I'm
5:32:24like hindsight's 2020 I'm like starting
5:32:27to go back there was something else that
5:32:29happened on Saturday that had to do with
5:32:31all of it think about it for a minute
5:32:33I'm going to see if uh my tech guy has
5:32:35his equipment charge
5:32:38we'll get your phone taken care of okay
5:32:40so again I'm going to have you sign this
5:32:44voluntary consent it's the same thing
5:32:46that you signed in Thorton saying that
5:32:49you know I didn't threaten you
5:32:50intimidate you you have a right to say
5:32:52no I want you to read the document again
5:32:55we're going to take your phone we're
5:32:56going to use um a program called
5:32:59celebrate if you go to your phone store
5:33:02that's what they use Sometimes they used
5:33:03to do this they used to move your stuff
5:33:05back and forth it's the same thing
5:33:07they're going to take that information
5:33:09and then um an examiner who is skilled
5:33:12in looking at cell phone data is going
5:33:14to look at it to try to recover the
5:33:16deleted material that we're after I hope
5:33:19they can get the deleted material is
5:33:21what I'm after obvious I know it is I
5:33:23feel so bad that I did that I didn't
5:33:24even honestly like that's not even what
5:33:27I was thinking about I was just
5:33:29so did not want like any presence from
5:33:33him right so you're okay with us doing
5:33:37take the whole
5:33:38just take it cuz I feel like we've been
5:33:41trying to I'm going to put all data on
5:33:43here just for ease okay read that and
5:33:47make sure you sign it that you
5:33:49understand that's we're going to take
5:33:50all the data once I have all that stuff
5:33:52I'll get your phone back to you that's
5:33:54okay I mean I'm not even going to use
5:33:56that anymore I'm going to just use this
5:33:57okay I'm going to still get it back to
5:33:58you as soon as we're done okay all right
5:34:00so next week sometime maybe okay or the
5:34:03week after or something like somewhere
5:34:05in that time frame okay okay all right
5:34:06relax for minute I'll be back in a
5:34:31second I got it I got it I got it I got
5:34:34it
5:34:38[Music]
5:34:41I Remember by the way I got it
5:34:44remembered what in my head what I needed
5:34:46to tell you okay okay so hi hi I'm M I'm
5:34:50Nikki nice to meet you hello um so this
5:34:53is my original phone that these guys
5:34:56would like to have I have a lot of
5:34:58contacts on here that are not on the
5:34:59phone that I'm currently transferring to
5:35:02like a lot of them I need some of them
5:35:05um it would be greatly appreciated if we
5:35:07could get contacts from this phone to
5:35:09just go to this phone so that all the
5:35:10text messages and everything have like
5:35:12names and things to them so that I can
5:35:16that's all I want to do and I went to
5:35:18Verizon to switch the to this phone and
5:35:20all they did was give me this little
5:35:22sheet of paper to follow which seems
5:35:24very simple and I'm usually pretty text
5:35:25happy except for the fact that I can't
5:35:27get the app store to work on this phone
5:35:29and I can't get the Wi-Fi to work on
5:35:31this phone okay so that is the Dilemma
5:35:35that I'm in but if you would be so kind
5:35:37as to just SE that out then I can give
5:35:39them what they need and I am not good on
5:35:42phone things I'm usually pretty texy
5:35:45after working the oil field you got to
5:35:46get creative about in technology but
5:35:49you're like in the sticks so everything
5:35:51wants to malfunction so are you contact
5:35:54on this phone syn to the cloud to the
5:35:57iCloud I don't know
5:36:00okay I mean some messages came over so I
5:36:03assume that everything is but I don't
5:36:05really know
5:36:08maybe I'm not as t as I
5:36:11thought what' you
5:36:13remember you just said you remember
5:36:15something besides
5:36:16that oh you want to conversation right
5:36:19now he's an agent he works with me he's
5:36:23he knows about can step out if you feel
5:36:25more comfortable oh no I mean what
5:36:28whatever you tell me he had a fire stick
5:36:32he kept talking about you know what a
5:36:33fire stick is okay you probably do since
5:36:36you're a t guys they're like like Oh you
5:36:38mean like Amazon P yeah okay so he
5:36:41didn't have it in his division but chis
5:36:44yes so Chris mentioned to me that on
5:36:47Saturday that same day
5:36:51um
5:36:53that oh cuz this kind of went hand inand
5:36:57with the whole like apartment talk cuz I
5:37:00was
5:37:02like all that apartment that he said he
5:37:04found that he was like I was like like
5:37:07what's it called and he's like I don't
5:37:09remember and I was like well how much is
5:37:11it he's like it's close to 1100 and I
5:37:14was really taken back by that cuz I pay
5:37:17more than that and I don't really have
5:37:18that nice of a place and it's not a
5:37:20two-bedroom it's a one so that part kind
5:37:24of seemed odd to me but I'd seen a few
5:37:25things online that were kind of cheap
5:37:27and I was just like all right and he's
5:37:29like I'm just trying to cut costs I was
5:37:31like that's cool like how else are you
5:37:34doing that and it was just out of
5:37:36curiosity and he's like I decided to get
5:37:38rid of cable and I was like okay and I
5:37:41was kind of taken back by that too cuz
5:37:43he loves sports D like Liv fo
5:37:49so I uh I was like okay and I was like
5:37:54that's a good cost to you know to cut
5:37:56back on and he was like yeah I think I
5:37:59can watch still stream Sports via a fire
5:38:04stick and I've heard of those things
5:38:05before I don't really know a lot about
5:38:08them
5:38:10um but he was saying that he had a buddy
5:38:12working on it already for him who's the
5:38:16Buddy he didn't say I didn't ask why do
5:38:19you think that's
5:38:20important that he had all that set
5:38:24up I don't know I mean it made me
5:38:27believe that like he was ready to move
5:38:29out is that oh I get what you're saying
5:38:31yeah like he was prepping it still
5:38:33sounded like he was prepping I mean
5:38:35everything he did sounded like he was
5:38:37was getting ready for everything to
5:38:38happen the only thing that I found
5:38:40really peculiar about the whole
5:38:41situation was the fact that he just kind
5:38:43of seemed disconnected about the
5:38:45apartment
5:38:46thing on Saturday whereas in previous
5:38:50conversations he was the one who brought
5:38:52it up and he was the one who seemed
5:38:54really excited about it when I offered
5:38:56to help him do some like leg work on
5:38:58trying to find him a spot for him and
5:39:00his girls
5:39:03right okay so I don't I don't know who
5:39:08his friend was it was just weird cuz
5:39:10sometimes it seemed like some of the
5:39:12things he said he was still
5:39:15really a lot of things he said make
5:39:17sense and still to this day makes sense
5:39:20and then other things that he said don't
5:39:22make sense at all to me anymore or like
5:39:25they changed you
5:39:27know well you know a lot more now well
5:39:30unfortunately you know a lot more now
5:39:32about terrible things that may have
5:39:34happened that change the way you're
5:39:36thinking about what he say too so making
5:39:39you think differently about those kind
5:39:42of that
5:39:44verbage
5:39:50right
5:39:52definitely
5:39:55so we we've talked a lot about a lot of
5:39:59different things I hope I'm helping you
5:40:01that you certainly are I hope so cuz I'm
5:40:04so I don't like having this stuff on the
5:40:07top of my head it's so hard in so many
5:40:10days I can tell that my mind is trying
5:40:12to like block it all out right now and I
5:40:15think it's almost like a subliminal like
5:40:17coping mecanism and I'm trying not to
5:40:20I'm trying to like think about it so
5:40:22that I can help you guys and I just
5:40:24that's why why don't you give yourself a
5:40:25break for a day or
5:40:27two and just live a normal life stop
5:40:31thinking about this stuff for a day or
5:40:32two and then revisit it maybe that'll
5:40:35help you because you look like you're
5:40:37tired again I lost my job yesterday so
5:40:41that's where that comes from you lost
5:40:43your job with the Geo Sciences place as
5:40:46well okay sorry to hear
5:40:50that with I think you mentioned with
5:40:52your skill set though you should be
5:40:54easily employable on
5:40:56another uh local I don't know I don't
5:41:00know I hope somebody hires me I hope
5:41:01people don't see my name on a resume and
5:41:04just not hire me
5:41:07well your name hasn't even made in the
5:41:09papers yet not
5:41:11yet so remember you said that you had
5:41:14some locations you could go out of state
5:41:17maybe yeah I don't know if that's what
5:41:19you're thinking or whatever is going to
5:41:22work for
5:41:23you yeah I'm I'm thinking a lot about
5:41:27all of that it's just a matter of timing
5:41:29and trying to figure out when to do it
5:41:31hesitant to do it all too soon I W have
5:41:33to do it all over again tell me the name
5:41:35of the geoscientist company I
5:41:41I think it was just so bum because they
5:41:43told me that they would keep me and then
5:41:47they called me back and let me go and I
5:41:48was just like man so did
5:41:51they essentially fire you for a lack of
5:41:55better
5:41:57term that was yesterday
5:41:59yeah so they let me go because they
5:42:03hired me to do a contract job and now
5:42:05that contract was over
5:42:07was unfortunate cuz a Darko actually
5:42:10offered to pay me for a while and 10
5:42:12said
5:42:13no so I just wish they would have been
5:42:16honest with me in the first place but it
5:42:19is what it is so now you're out looking
5:42:21for a job too I start doing that it's
5:42:25not even like a priority to me at this
5:42:27point but it will get deal with so yeah
5:42:30if I need Hazel to help me out with the
5:42:31police and sell my truck and change my
5:42:36entire life and hopefully somebody
5:42:38somewhere will give me a decent job and
5:42:40give me a chance and not judge for all
5:42:43of this whole
5:42:47disaster so that's why you said Hazel
5:42:50was was helping you out with some of
5:42:52your release stuff all right so yeah
5:42:55when we're here I think she usually
5:42:57comes in in the afternoon
5:42:59today so we'll check I think Matt just
5:43:02let the other way looking for me but
5:43:04he'll come back eventually aome
5:43:07so want this for
5:43:15something
5:43:16here what's this oh this is
5:43:20your this is the Verizon callx to 13
5:43:25from what date to what date you want
5:43:27this one back it's a month now you're
5:43:29good I don't know it's a month so it's
5:43:31probably whatever 30 days was probably
5:43:35July 14th
5:43:37obvious you'll see it when you open it
5:43:39up you'll see it but it's a month so my
5:43:42feel so can I just take this real quick
5:43:44and and move it off your thumb drive and
5:43:46I'll give you your thumb drive you can
5:43:47do whatever you want that's yours um you
5:43:50don't need this
5:43:57back um no I mean you can give it back
5:44:00if you want yeah I'll just go download
5:44:02this to my computer real quick there's
5:44:03so I think so it's a month it ends on
5:44:06the 13th and that's why I was saying
5:44:09when they bill me next month then I can
5:44:11give you the 14th and past that and I
5:44:15could have given you the 14th now but
5:44:17because they haven't built me for it
5:44:19like this is in a nice PDF but the the
5:44:23the unu one is like in a janky Excel
5:44:26format and you could like manipulate the
5:44:28data you could I don't I don't want so
5:44:30what is on here specifically PDF of your
5:44:33complete phone bill for your cell phone
5:44:35that ends on August 13th
5:44:37everything after that you put this on my
5:44:39phone on computer my least agreement is
5:44:43on there and I told he little that you
5:44:45add it okay I'll call share because she
5:44:48needs that and then um
5:44:52my there's also like a computer record
5:44:56of me talking to the brides and wireless
5:44:59people asking them if they can restore
5:45:01my text and what they had to say about
5:45:03it just so that you guys know that it
5:45:04did the due diligence to attempt to do
5:45:08um so those are the three things that
5:45:09are on
5:45:10there so there the messages that synced
5:45:14up when you started or on this phone
5:45:15right so when she started this phone's
5:45:18like 2 years old okay but when she
5:45:20turned it on a bunch of deleted messages
5:45:22from Chris that were on that phone
5:45:24synced up with that phone okay so that's
5:45:26the one I want to try to rip okay so
5:45:28we're going to download this phone this
5:45:29one is
5:45:30coming exactly so this one's going to be
5:45:33coming with us as evidence that one will
5:45:34just rip so she has a phone okay need
5:45:37you to log into Google I was trying to
5:45:38figure this out I don't know oh
5:45:42okay that might be an issue I know I
5:45:46mean if you guys really can't do it I'm
5:45:48sure go through figure out there's
5:45:51another way we can do it or we can
5:45:56try
5:45:58man I'm usually really good about
5:46:01password but this one
5:46:14I don't
5:46:15know I really don't I was messing with
5:46:18this before you walked in here
5:46:20okay and that's the only way you can
5:46:22download a op
5:46:24right this yeah I mean I'll have to
5:46:26figure out I'm not I'm not an Android
5:46:28guy so I don't know I don't know I never
5:46:31I haven't used the Android phone in like
5:46:32two years okay I guess I'll have to
5:46:34figure this out that sucks but it's okay
5:46:37well there's another there's another
5:46:38thing that we can try sorry
5:46:42convenience did you have a text message
5:46:44on so when I looked up the two I mean
5:46:47Wi-Fi I think you got a couple more
5:46:49extra oh I got
5:46:52these yeah this came in on my other
5:46:54phone this one's like right when I
5:46:59transferred um so I think your context
5:47:03should
5:47:05be um
5:47:09connected to iCloud now
5:47:12so shouldn't lose
5:47:16[Music]
5:47:17them and we can use we can try and use
5:47:20our down the machine that we use to
5:47:22download the phones can also
5:47:25transfer I've never done that so I don't
5:47:27know how it's going to work we're going
5:47:28to shop okay that would be so nice cuz I
5:47:31was looking at these messages and I was
5:47:33like oh my God like don't know don't
5:47:35know don't know
5:47:37don't I mean again I'm sure I could
5:47:39figure it out pretty quick if I read the
5:47:41text yeah they're all different okay so
5:47:45you would just save me a lot of
5:47:48time and stress okay then we're keeping
5:47:50this one yes downloading it giveing him
5:47:53back yeah and then this one I think he
5:47:55only needs one number off of and that
5:47:56one you
5:47:57better okay we're keeping this phone
5:47:59right he
5:48:01is
5:48:04okay all right let me go see if I can
5:48:06transfer contacts you want the wall
5:48:08charger that go um I'll just put here so
5:48:10I forget but I don't need it right
5:48:12now be right in a little
5:48:18[Music]
5:48:35bit for
5:48:48[Music]
5:49:08[Music]
5:49:33I don't know what time it
5:49:35is for
5:49:40[Music]
5:49:52[Music]
5:50:35St
5:50:41[Music]
5:51:05for
5:51:12[Music]
5:51:30[Music]
5:51:35for for
5:52:25[Music]
5:52:35J
5:52:45[Music]
5:53:05for
5:53:09[Music]
5:53:25[Music]
5:53:35for for
5:53:50[Music]
5:54:08[Music]
5:54:13hello how are you doing I'm all right I
5:54:16like your little
5:54:18blouse thank you thank you I much
5:54:24[Music]
5:54:26time
5:54:30right I don't believe
5:54:33you I'm going to step I'm going to step
5:54:36out you I have that now I have the lease
5:54:39I'll give it to Hazel okay
5:54:42um did he getar your phone Tak care of I
5:54:45don't know I took them both TR I'll step
5:54:48out for a few minutes give you guys a
5:54:49few seconds all right if you remember
5:54:52anything else we'll talk before you
5:54:54leave all
5:54:56right um hazel said she knew that you
5:55:00had been fired so um maybe get some
5:55:04advice on that too about potentially
5:55:06leaving here and starting starting a new
5:55:09somewhere else probably is a good good
5:55:11thing right I'll be back in few thank
5:55:17you so and dark the other company as
5:55:22well yeah well Ando just terminated my
5:55:25contract I mean I don't blame them
5:55:28that's just not a good place to be but
5:55:30they offered they were concerned and
5:55:33they offered to pay
5:55:36for like a few weeks well that's that is
5:55:39pretty generous it was very generous and
5:55:42Taz cut it off they're just like we
5:55:44don't want to build a contractor if
5:55:46you're not actually working like I
5:55:48respect that you know I just I don't
5:55:51know I think uh it's kind of
5:55:54disappointed cuz they told me you know I
5:55:57informed them on the situation and then
5:56:01they contacted me like a day later and
5:56:04they said oh you're good don't worry
5:56:05about it and I contacted me the day
5:56:08after and pretty much just let me go
5:56:11and just be honest they be giving you
5:56:15another another job or another
5:56:17appointment they would have had to of
5:56:19and I kind of had a solution for that
5:56:21situation too but they didn't seem like
5:56:24they were all about it so I it is what
5:56:28it is I don't like the working with them
5:56:30for like four months I don't know that
5:56:32well at
5:56:3410 and for they are they saying that
5:56:39your contract with them is also
5:56:41elminated or that you just aren't
5:56:43looking in the dark anymore and they'll
5:56:44find you in another position they told
5:56:46me originally that if I wasn't going to
5:56:49work in Darko they'd find another place
5:56:50to put me and then they came back
5:56:53yesterday night and said since you're
5:56:56not we hired you for the contract with
5:56:58Ana Darko and since you're contract with
5:57:00them was terminated we're letting you go
5:57:04okay did you call the person I gave you
5:57:07no I've spent all day trying to do stuff
5:57:10for these guys so I haven't had a chance
5:57:12I think it might be helpful just to talk
5:57:14to him and see what he has to say about
5:57:16it and see if there's any you know he'll
5:57:21probably ask you what your contract with
5:57:22them was and ask you for some more
5:57:24details and see if there's any way that
5:57:27legally he can help you out or if he can
5:57:31create some sort of mediation or
5:57:32something like that or at the very least
5:57:34negotiate a posi
5:57:37um referral to another agency or
5:57:39something I mean they told me they give
5:57:41me that you seem really taken back when
5:57:43I asked them but I was like can you at
5:57:45least give me a positive referral I mean
5:57:46I did great work for those guys they're
5:57:49definitely going to miss and be on their
5:57:50team for
5:57:51sure and he like yeah yeah I'll do that
5:57:57okay I didn't know what else to do I
5:57:59just this is like one more thing on my
5:58:03plate right now I'm just I don't know
5:58:05what to do I don't think
5:58:09anybody well I think that right now what
5:58:12you need to worry about it so to give
5:58:14really good support of family and people
5:58:17that are going to help you get through
5:58:18for a few
5:58:19weeks while you're looking for work so I
5:58:22think right now I need to just
5:58:23concentrate on getting your Le situation
5:58:26worked out so that you don't have to
5:58:27worry about carrying two
5:58:30places and getting everything worked out
5:58:33with f and comp so they can get started
5:58:35into some therapy
5:58:36[Music]
5:58:38yeah
5:58:39St my why don't do that well it has
5:58:45yet and it doesn't
5:58:48mean businesses won't necessarily the
5:58:51hiring agents w't necessarily have
5:58:52watched the news or know of those things
5:58:54and if they do I think you can just
5:58:55explain to them that you're doing
5:58:58everything you can to cooperate with law
5:58:59enforcement do what you can to have a
5:59:01non- impact your job and you know your
5:59:05work at your work at both an Darko and
5:59:08any who s you prior to that is a good
5:59:10Testament to what a good worker you are
5:59:13through all this you kept going to work
5:59:14you kept doing your job you were
5:59:17responsible towards your agency you
5:59:19informed them about what was going on
5:59:20you did everything you needed to
5:59:23do still just don't think people are can
5:59:26hire me I have a feeling that trying to
5:59:28get by for the next like five or 10 to
5:59:31be
5:59:36I think that thinking that way is going
5:59:38to be a little s to feeding so let's try
5:59:41to take care of what we can take care of
5:59:43and try to build things up for you so
5:59:45that you have the most
5:59:47positive prospects for the future so I
5:59:50mean I just don't even know where to
5:59:52start like I have friends that can give
5:59:54me a referral but what I don't want to
5:59:56do is have my friends give me a referral
5:59:58and then they see the news and then they
6:00:00are very taken back and I think some
6:00:03people would be kind of upset if I ask
6:00:05something referral prior to the news
6:00:09breaking no waiting till it breaks
6:00:13like try to approach have they tried
6:00:16thinking about like a temporary agency
6:00:18or some place you like Kelly girls I
6:00:20mean I know they don't pay well but
6:00:22something like
6:00:24that I it's probably well well below
6:00:26your skill
6:00:27level I don't know probably go back to
6:00:30the oil field at some
6:00:32point most those people are bu societal
6:00:35out cat so it might work were you happy
6:00:39huh were you happy when you work good
6:00:42sometimes yeah sometimes not but so it
6:00:45wouldn't be torture to go back to that
6:00:47oh it's all I
6:00:50know like fall back at least until all
6:00:53this gets resolved a little bit I if
6:00:56people hire me S going to job out there
6:01:00a woman yeah I don't think you can do it
6:01:06well you have have dream
6:01:09show and I go the long
6:01:14[Music]
6:01:20way so I understand I um agent GOC has
6:01:24given has copy of your leas so I'll talk
6:01:27with your landlord and see where we can
6:01:30get um as far as getting you out of that
6:01:34and then I have a list of finally have a
6:01:36list of referrals for you for
6:01:39therapists they approve it they haven't
6:01:42yet but they said they should by the end
6:01:44of the day or only
6:01:45tomorrow they just have to go through a
6:01:47procedure you know it's it's the
6:01:50government everything has a
6:01:52procedure so it's just going through the
6:01:55procedure but you could get started in
6:01:57the meantime calling with therapists and
6:01:59just doing little interviews with them
6:02:01you know like we talked about just
6:02:03making sure that it's somebody that you
6:02:04feel confident with and that you feel
6:02:06comfortable you can say anything
6:02:10to and then I would also ask them just
6:02:14because I know you have hard time
6:02:15sleeping and I know
6:02:17that this bothers you all the time that
6:02:20you could wake up in midd
6:02:22night having some ises you want to also
6:02:24talk to this therapist about what kind
6:02:26of after hour support you could get you
6:02:28do they have a an emergency line or
6:02:31somebody that you can talk to if it is
6:02:334:00 in the morning and you haven't been
6:02:35able to sleep all night
6:02:41and if you need some help makeing phone
6:02:45[Music]
6:02:53calls doing I need to do every else to I
6:02:57know you're feeling pretty overwhelmed
6:02:59and it just seems like it's piling
6:03:03up yeah
6:03:06you know that we are here for you so you
6:03:09do have
6:03:10support yeah media came to my house L
6:03:13the
6:03:16letter like old crinkly envelope and a
6:03:19piece of Journal paper that WR crumpled
6:03:22pan ritten in chicken scratch like oh I
6:03:25went today show you should call me it's
6:03:28like why would I do that in the first
6:03:32place but even then like the lack of
6:03:34professionalism that my family is seeing
6:03:37from these news reporters is absolutely
6:03:40ridiculous and you're just ignoring them
6:03:43yeah I me they don't have my phone
6:03:44number yet they still haven't found it
6:03:46well that's good and you're not at your
6:03:48home no and your dad's pretty good about
6:03:51saying no and walking away they're
6:03:54contacting everybody there so many
6:03:56people to me call me
6:04:02today and you know all they have to say
6:04:04is that they don't anything about it and
6:04:06they don't have any
6:04:08comment I don't want to talk to you no
6:04:10comment or you don't know and I was like
6:04:13you don't have to talk to them it's like
6:04:15you don't have to call back you don't
6:04:17know him
6:04:18anything I just send you love and
6:04:20support I haven't said anything else I
6:04:22don't really know what else to say no
6:04:24but I had to do it with a lot of people
6:04:26and it wasn't something I wanted to do I
6:04:28was trying to avoid that situation but
6:04:30I've just been like inundated with phone
6:04:32calls and text about it so I was like
6:04:34all right talked to my dad and I was
6:04:37like do we do damage control on the rest
6:04:39of these people so that they're prepared
6:04:41or not and he was just like yeah we'll
6:04:43do it so I just called like my closest
6:04:46friends and I didn't say anything about
6:04:48the case or that I was a witness I just
6:04:51told them like hey man I need you to do
6:04:53this for me like me door asking any
6:04:56questions just tell no
6:04:57comment please take all the pictures
6:05:01off I love you and I'm
6:05:04safe I didn't break any laws that's good
6:05:08well cuz I start freaking out what did
6:05:10you do and I'm like no it's okay you
6:05:13just help me please so yeah I mean so
6:05:17far well let me talk about that how you
6:05:20believe that your friends and your
6:05:21family would at least for a while be
6:05:23supportive not knowing anything just
6:05:25knowing that you needed their their love
6:05:26and support I mean it's been four days
6:05:29that they've been searching for me and
6:05:31they had found me yet I'm sure they will
6:05:34eventually but I think four days is it's
6:05:36not a bad start I think you're right and
6:05:40and they still found my phone number and
6:05:42you do have a plan you know you have the
6:05:44plan to just say no to hang up don't
6:05:46answer the door don't answer the
6:05:49phone you'll have caller ID so know it's
6:05:52your family or your friends and you have
6:05:54a voicemail that you can they can leave
6:05:56a message and just say what they want if
6:05:59his
6:06:00family everybody else you just ignore
6:06:02you don't have any obligation to talk to
6:06:05any of them
6:06:07right that's pretty much where it's
6:06:11[Music]
6:06:13at tell it's just like one task at a
6:06:16time every day something
6:06:21else here and they got my phone so
6:06:23hopefully they get what they
6:06:25need good hopefully it will help I'm
6:06:28just trying to do everything I can but
6:06:30at this point it's like I don't even
6:06:31know what to do anymore I like really
6:06:33want to just start taking care of myself
6:06:35and ey everybody else and feel like it's
6:06:38just not
6:06:39happening well I you all you do have to
6:06:41do right now take care of
6:06:43yourself there's really no one else that
6:06:45you have to take care of right now you
6:06:48know let your friends let your family
6:06:50take care of you let them offer you
6:06:54support you're doing everything that
6:06:57we've asked of
6:06:58you and you just need to now take care
6:07:01of yourself and get yourself through
6:07:03this
6:07:07and let your family support you and let
6:07:09your friends support you you don't have
6:07:11to take care of
6:07:13them you've done what you need to do for
6:07:15them you've told them I'm in a situation
6:07:18which I just need you to support me
6:07:19unconditionally support
6:07:22me and that's all the taking care of
6:07:24them you need to do right now there'll
6:07:26be plenty of time for the rest of your
6:07:27life to take care of people right now
6:07:29you just need people to take care of you
6:07:41I don't know I've asked you this before
6:07:43but I to ask you again um are you still
6:07:48feeling like you're not thinking at all
6:07:50about suicide or hurting
6:07:53yourself no I'm not thinking about okay
6:07:57good and you promise me you let just
6:07:59know if you start thinking that way I
6:08:02text you guys in the middle of the night
6:08:03every time I'm stressing out okay so you
6:08:07will
6:08:11okay okay we want to be here to help you
6:08:14we don't want this to turn into another
6:08:15tragedy for
6:08:22you oh I didn't know what time you were
6:08:24coming in today and I have another
6:08:26appointment that is coming in so I'm
6:08:29going do agent go back up too that's
6:08:31okay so that you're not sit in here all
6:08:33by
6:08:34yourself this is not a pleasant room to
6:08:36be hanging out in no not at all this is
6:08:39awkward they have my phon and phones are
6:08:42me I'll just sit
6:08:44here well actually I have to go and find
6:08:46out where he is we're trying to get your
6:08:48phones to work but you don't remember
6:08:50your Google account I should to be
6:08:52honest with you it's like programmed
6:08:54into my my the two places I use it all
6:08:57the time and so I don't have to so the
6:09:01only way to transfer your contacts from
6:09:03that phone from your iPhone to phone is
6:09:05with your Google account I mean if I
6:09:07need to I know we're going to print your
6:09:10we downloaded them so we have the file
6:09:14available we can print it for you can
6:09:16you do that that would be nice but we
6:09:17can't we can't move home because that's
6:09:20okay you're so your phone is essentially
6:09:23you won't be able to download apps or
6:09:25anything like that without your Google
6:09:26account okay so but you do know
6:09:29it do know my Google account yeah no if
6:09:32I did then we wouldn't be in this but
6:09:34you know do you have it somewhere else
6:09:37uh yeah I'm sure I can like reset it and
6:09:39figure it out just making sure you have
6:09:41a phone that's going to be usable yeah I
6:09:43mean I can make incoming and I going all
6:09:45it that's that's all I really care about
6:09:48so he's going to download the messages
6:09:52that
6:09:53um uploaded when you redid your phone so
6:09:59that's take it it shouldn't take too
6:10:01long yeah there's not much on there yeah
6:10:03it's pretty short should take just few
6:10:05minutes and then we're done they're all
6:10:07like they're not even on the right date
6:10:08some of them it's really weird how their
6:10:11timestamped okay like there's one on
6:10:13there on the 13th and I'm like I'm
6:10:15pretty sure that that was a conversation
6:10:17between you and Chris yeah but it was
6:10:19like not that same
6:10:22day the 13th was a
6:10:25Wednesday or the 12th I don't I don't
6:10:29all right it's not in the right spot
6:10:31they're not in the right spot maybe the
6:10:34date on the phone
6:10:36I don't know I'll look at the phone and
6:10:38we'll see well it's out of order like
6:10:40unless I'm confused but I'm pretty sure
6:10:42the last text on there between me and
6:10:44him was actually probably somewhere in
6:10:47the middle of the
6:10:48text so when you say I don't like like
6:10:52it's saying oh hey this happened on like
6:10:55Tuesday but really I'm like I'm pretty
6:10:57sure that that happened at a different
6:10:59point okay all right so only if it's
6:11:02critical we'll talk about it I I need to
6:11:05look at the text first so before I know
6:11:07of course
6:11:10understood you probably want to go yes
6:11:13because you have your next you have your
6:11:15next client coming
6:11:16in thank you for your time I appreciate
6:11:19it oh yeah you're welcome and I'll send
6:11:21you those therapists and then you know
6:11:23just get started and giving them a call
6:11:26and saying who you think is going to be
6:11:27good fit for you so this we can have it
6:11:29ready so the one that come says yes you
6:11:32get started right away thank you can you
6:11:35anything help me those calls you start
6:11:37making them realize you just can't do it
6:11:39on your own just call you about Jo and I
6:11:42can just um call with you and and be
6:11:44there with you those calls thanks okay
6:11:48and if you want to try to give the guy
6:11:51from C call him I will definitely call
6:11:54him that is on my priority list at this
6:11:56point I
6:11:58just not on the top of that yeah no I
6:12:01understand that I understand and I'm
6:12:03sure he'll say it depends on what your
6:12:04country it so if you have your
6:12:07contracted them where your dad can get
6:12:09to it's probably your house um if you
6:12:11can have it where your dad can get to
6:12:13it's one to get for you to send hand
6:12:15probably be really helpful I have
6:12:18all oh okay good have to go back to the
6:12:22house at all okay good good okay thank
6:12:26you so much Hazel and call me your chck
6:12:28tell
6:12:30okay all right I'm going to see where
6:12:32he's at
6:12:35what else anything else over here that
6:12:38you can think of or want to address or
6:12:40you
6:12:41remember sometimes I feel like I
6:12:43remember stuff but it's like fake you
6:12:46know like I'm like I can't I don't know
6:12:49I don't and not everything's important
6:12:52obviously I know I tried to get you to
6:12:54remember as much as I could because a
6:12:57lot of the stuff that you have told me
6:12:58over the last couple conversations is is
6:13:01relative and it's important and I
6:13:03appreciate you going back and looking at
6:13:05at calendars and doing all that stuff
6:13:08but stop thinking about this for a while
6:13:10I think we've
6:13:12got
6:13:13everything I don't think you can
6:13:15remember anything more we've had a lot
6:13:17of conversations about this case so just
6:13:20give yourself a
6:13:21break go have dinner with one of your
6:13:24friends and have a nobody knows who you
6:13:28are not yet so even better to make that
6:13:32happen whoever you trust in like
6:13:34Charlotte or whoever your other friends
6:13:38are go have a normal night and not sit
6:13:41at your house and dwell on this it might
6:13:44do wonders okay are they going to post
6:13:48anything if they don't find out anything
6:13:50because I'm just surprised they haven't
6:13:52about about
6:13:54me I mean it's been four days you know
6:13:58that they are dying to find out who you
6:14:00are I know they haven't even reached my
6:14:02inner circle yet it's been 4 days
6:14:05you got good friends yes I do so be
6:14:09thankful for that and I we've we've had
6:14:11this conversation is it you know you
6:14:15said you're thinking about going
6:14:16somewhere else go I don't know when I'm
6:14:18going to do that can you guys help me
6:14:19with the name change you like do I'm
6:14:21serious please so I can't do anything
6:14:24for you that's a legal process it's um
6:14:28it's really not that
6:14:30difficult um there's just paperwork that
6:14:33needs to be filled out uh I think your
6:14:36best bet would just be to call uh an
6:14:39maybe ask an attorney to help you with
6:14:42that or seek advice from I don't even
6:14:45know who you call um honestly but people
6:14:49change their name all the time when they
6:14:50get married um so it's probably the
6:14:53county
6:14:54clerk um but it's going to I think would
6:14:56have to be at a state level to make a
6:14:58name change but I don't know
6:15:00specifically how to do that I don't does
6:15:02that like become public because I would
6:15:04defeat the
6:15:05purpose I don't know um I know it can be
6:15:09done I just don't know how to do it and
6:15:11I wouldn't even know who to reach out I
6:15:12mean I could find out and let you know
6:15:15but I don't know how to do it um you
6:15:18know like the witness protection thing
6:15:19is very very rare I'm not expecting that
6:15:23I'm he's not going anywhere he's not
6:15:25going to hurt you all those things so no
6:15:28I'm not expecting that I just I don't
6:15:31even know like sometimes I'm like I just
6:15:33want to do it now and I'm like why
6:15:35because it if you go another St I feel
6:15:37like it would defeat the purpose you
6:15:39know a part of me I just I keep getting
6:15:41really scared that it's going to be
6:15:42really hard to find good employment for
6:15:44like a really long time like years and
6:15:46years and years of my life I feel like
6:15:49people are going if you go to another
6:15:51state this is not headlines in that
6:15:53state you realize that I mean I I yeah I
6:15:59do and if I do a background on you
6:16:03you're a good employee it doesn't come
6:16:05up that you dated Chris Watts and you're
6:16:08involved in this case it doesn't work
6:16:09that way so I wouldn't want too much
6:16:14about I mean I don't know I just feel
6:16:17like this is just like one of those
6:16:18things that if it goes to court it's
6:16:20going to be
6:16:23like well I mean it's National right now
6:16:25but it's not
6:16:28like you know it's not the theater event
6:16:32that happened in Aurora seven years ago
6:16:34right that every body in the world know
6:16:35about it's not that so I certainly for
6:16:40you you're under the microscope and you
6:16:42you're feeling it and nothing can
6:16:45anybody can say can change that for you
6:16:47so I get it
6:16:49but I don't I think you need to just
6:16:52step back for a
6:16:53minute take a breath figure out what
6:16:56you're going to do obviously you have
6:16:57some serious very serious decisions to
6:17:00make over the next you know couple of
6:17:04months
6:17:05know I'm trying to find out how to do
6:17:07all this without spending all my savings
6:17:09saving up for a house and I'm just like
6:17:11damn it at least you have savings to
6:17:14fall back on to a lot of people can't
6:17:15say that yeah that is true well since
6:17:19they fired me hopefully I get
6:17:21unemployment for a little while so I can
6:17:22like get my mind right and go to therapy
6:17:25and then go back to work at that point
6:17:27cuz I am not
6:17:30ready going back to work might be a good
6:17:32thing for you though then you know sit
6:17:33and think about this every day I know I
6:17:35agree with that but finding a job is the
6:17:37big task you know that's why I told her
6:17:40she like why don't you reach to some me
6:17:41your friends you feel about a job it's
6:17:43like
6:17:44well they don't know they don't know who
6:17:47what's going on no they don't now but
6:17:49what I don't want is somebody to give me
6:17:50a reference and then they find out
6:17:51what's going on I think that's really
6:17:55disrespectful I think you reach out
6:17:57specifically to an employer not a person
6:18:00other I don't know anything about the AO
6:18:02industry but other companies like who
6:18:06you work
6:18:07for I have this skill and I like to come
6:18:11War it thinking about it thinking about
6:18:14reaching out to some old employers I've
6:18:16always been a really good employee to
6:18:18those people everybody when I leave is
6:18:19pretty disappointed this is the first
6:18:21time I've ever been terminated from a
6:18:25job sometimes that can be tough to get
6:18:27over too it's hard this was like the
6:18:29dream job I feel awful about all this
6:18:33like I wanted that for so long to get
6:18:35out of the oil field I was so tired of
6:18:37living on oil R it's such a rough life I
6:18:40just want to be in the office and
6:18:41working environmental for an oil company
6:18:43and I finally got it all this time well
6:18:47you have that skill set now so maybe you
6:18:49can move back in so we will see um I
6:18:54forgot what else are you
6:18:57guys am I in trouble cuz I deleted his
6:19:00sex you're not in trouble I didn't know
6:19:02what was going on at that point so
6:19:05I
6:19:06know is there qu does that cause
6:19:08question of course it does there is but
6:19:12is it criminal no is there concern that
6:19:15you're hiding something potentially
6:19:18that's why I want them or I wouldn't be
6:19:19asking for them I know and you've been
6:19:22you've been upfront with me uh about
6:19:25everything I don't have I don't have a
6:19:27concern that you know you ever told
6:19:31Chris I don't want you you know go kill
6:19:33your wife or get rid of your kids or I
6:19:36don't want to date you if you have kids
6:19:38none of those things ever came out of
6:19:40your mouth we've talked about that so
6:19:43but until those text messages that are
6:19:46deleted um are there you know and all
6:19:50that it's just speculation but it's kind
6:19:53of like why did you do that and I get
6:19:55your excuse I understand what you're
6:19:57saying that on Tuesday you real realized
6:20:00who this man was and what he had done
6:20:02you didn't want him to be part of your
6:20:04life anymore so got rid of it I didn't
6:20:05even want to see it in my phone it was
6:20:06like freaking me out cuz I remember I
6:20:08had like deleted them and then he sent
6:20:11me another text and then I deleted that
6:20:14one too right cuz I was like I don't
6:20:17want to deal with it by the way when
6:20:19you're looking through those text look
6:20:20for his ABC phone for that one
6:20:23conversation we had where he
6:20:24screenshoted me what he did on Monday
6:20:26remember that MH yeah and you said
6:20:30that's advant offici uhhuh and that
6:20:32should be the only like recent like
6:20:34there's probably stuff if you guys are
6:20:36able to pull up from way way back that
6:20:38we talk but nothing the thing we talked
6:20:41about was him proving that he went to
6:20:43the oil field that he went to work that
6:20:45he went to work that morning at whatever
6:20:47site he was supposed to go to to check
6:20:49on the some that'll be in there releas
6:20:51okay okay all right um and then I don't
6:20:55know am I allowed to like address my
6:20:57friends and tell them please no comment
6:20:59to the media I mean I have telling them
6:21:01anything else I I would not talk with
6:21:03anybody about
6:21:05any of this case except I mean I know
6:21:08you T you need to talk to a therapist
6:21:10and you need talk I'm sure you talking
6:21:11to your dad to some
6:21:14extent not well he's not in here for
6:21:17this I don't tell him about this I tell
6:21:18him I'm com down here but he doesn't
6:21:20need to know anymore
6:21:22he's you're an adult you made some
6:21:25decisions that caught you in a bad
6:21:27situation but there's nothing wrong with
6:21:29you talking to somebody I just wouldn't
6:21:32go into details no I haven't even
6:21:34telling people witness for certainly
6:21:37your best I mean if I was you I would be
6:21:41confiding with my best friend like hey
6:21:42this is what's happening in my life and
6:21:44I need
6:21:45help is there anything wrong with that
6:21:47no I mean that's about as far as
6:21:49confining his gone was me telling her
6:21:52about some guy that I was hanging out
6:21:53with but that was like way before any of
6:21:56it yeah and you need support right now
6:21:59too so you do there is no we're not
6:22:03you're not in trouble
6:22:05there's no charges against you you're
6:22:06simply a witness I just don't want to
6:22:07like get in trouble for like talking to
6:22:10like my dad or like asking a friend for
6:22:14hell well I mean like what my dad
6:22:16already knows you know I'm saying
6:22:17there's nothing to get in trouble for
6:22:19okay I don't know how that works that's
6:22:20why being onle there just one more thing
6:22:23I don't need on my plate cuz I oh my God
6:22:26you're not you're not um in trouble and
6:22:29talking to your friends and family about
6:22:31what's going on isn't going to get you
6:22:32in trouble okay I don't even want talk
6:22:34to my friends about it I don't even want
6:22:37anybody to know I mean they're going to
6:22:38find out but I figure the reason that I
6:22:42think I'm staking out media as long as I
6:22:45have been it's because nobody
6:22:48knows and my C
6:22:52really maybe I don't know they haven't
6:22:54or they just because you're not on
6:22:58social media at all but I mean I
6:23:00eliminated all of that I've like even
6:23:02had the ability to like go through went
6:23:04and found everybody I knew that had any
6:23:06public posts and it was just like this
6:23:08needs to be cleared it's all right so
6:23:11you've made it very difficult for them
6:23:13to find you do I think eventually that
6:23:16at some point they are going to find you
6:23:17sure of course think they're going find
6:23:19out I'm saying it I think that would be
6:23:21really tricky I don't know you haven't
6:23:23even told me where you're saying so and
6:23:25I don't know how it's connected to you
6:23:27or your family so I mean if it's in your
6:23:30family's name certainly it wouldn't be
6:23:31that hard to figure out so w
6:23:36if that you know there's ways to find
6:23:38out where people are saying but they're
6:23:41limited must somebody knows about this
6:23:43place that talks to
6:23:45nobody nobody all right does even
6:23:49know let me check on this yeah let me
6:23:52check on this phone oh yeah that's right
6:23:54I was like I'm not ready to go I know
6:23:55you're ready to go so he's printing the
6:23:59your
6:24:00contacts be back in a minute
6:24:17[Music]
6:24:23[Music]
6:24:33go
6:24:39[Music]
6:24:46[Music]
6:25:03for for
6:25:29[Music]
6:25:35[Music]
6:25:59okay there's
6:26:01those and he's still messing with your
6:26:03phone
6:26:05give me a few minutes okay yeah back in
6:26:07a minute did you sign this
6:26:12yes do you want a copy of that
6:26:17sure in a minute
6:26:23[Music]
6:26:50is
6:26:55[Music]
6:27:09[Music]
6:27:12that
6:27:16[Music]
6:27:41[Music]
6:27:47[Music]
6:28:03sh
6:28:20[Applause]
6:28:33for e
6:28:47[Music]
6:29:01[Music]
6:29:24[Music]
6:29:33is for
6:29:39[Music]
6:30:28[Music]
6:30:33sh
6:30:51[Music]
6:31:01[Music]
6:31:02for for
6:31:05[Music]
6:31:14[Music]
6:31:22[Music]
6:31:33[Music]
6:31:40all right one more question for you yeah
6:31:45um have jury duty on September
6:31:4817th is that something that I can do
6:31:51given the fact that I'm like mid in okay
6:31:55so just answer their question they're
6:31:57going to ask you a bunch of questions
6:31:58answer them
6:32:00truthfully um yeah I wouldn't I would
6:32:04avoid it but I just didn't know have you
6:32:07ever going to dur a duty uh I was
6:32:09supposed to go once and they didn't need
6:32:10me but I just wanted to like double
6:32:12check it in it has no bearing on what's
6:32:14going on in this so you're right I think
6:32:17you still trying to get your phone to
6:32:19download the restroom leave my stuff in
6:32:23here come back in here
6:32:32[Music]
6:32:39[Music]
6:32:55[Music]
6:33:02one
6:33:06[Music]
6:33:12[Music]
6:33:22[Music]
6:33:32e
6:33:46[Music]
6:33:58[Music]
6:34:02for for
6:34:10[Music]
6:34:23[Music]
6:34:29[Music]
6:34:51[Music]
6:34:58thanks right
6:35:02back
6:35:11[Music]
6:35:17[Music]
6:35:23[Music]
6:35:32for
6:35:36[Music]
6:35:41[Music]
6:35:49[Music]
6:35:59[Music]
6:36:02for for
6:36:08[Music]
6:36:14[Music]
6:36:31[Music]
6:36:46thanks
6:36:51[Music]
6:36:52man just having a bad day okay can you
6:36:56show me the messages that downloaded I'm
6:36:59going to take photographs of them
6:37:00because the device that we were using
6:37:03doesn't want to work I don't
6:37:06know oh for the messages that came from
6:37:10Chris that you said showed up on the
6:37:12phone
6:37:13yeah I don't think any of the ones from
6:37:16dark phone came but I don't know the
6:37:17number okay I didn't see it maybe you
6:37:19guys can give me that number we can
6:37:20check that one too um I can probably get
6:37:23it real quick show me the ones that you
6:37:26think came from
6:37:31him there
6:37:34so I I am going to take photographs of
6:37:37these in of downloading it with want me
6:37:40to just screenshot them and send them
6:37:42well but there's no way to do that no
6:37:44right here this isn't hooked up to Wi-Fi
6:37:47or anything is it no but I'm oh I see
6:37:50saying it'll come in clearer or you come
6:37:52watch me do that's what I'm saying you
6:37:55them and then text them to you right now
6:37:56yeah or you can email them to me I'll
6:37:58just send them to you right now while
6:37:59we're here okay that's fine okay you
6:38:02know what scary
6:38:07like I first started
6:38:10talking loyal truthful dedicated doesn't
6:38:14play gam it just makes me so sad think
6:38:18like so are these some of the ones that
6:38:20you um deleted I deleted everything that
6:38:24he sent me but these are just old like
6:38:27look how old and was there any from
6:38:29those dates yes so look like these 627
6:38:34629 and these are old and
6:38:37then they seem to be see and then we're
6:38:40missing the second and the third and
6:38:43then there's the four okay so there's a
6:38:46lot of messages I but then yeah then
6:38:49there's no fifth sixth seventh or eighth
6:38:51and then there's the ninth but it's only
6:38:52one text and then the 17th one text and
6:38:56you guys text how many times all the
6:38:58time I bet you guys have hundreds of
6:39:00messages that you need to recover but
6:39:01yes so here's the 11 look there's only
6:39:04one from the can I just see what he
6:39:07said and then the only text I think
6:39:10might be out of order might is the one
6:39:12at the very
6:39:18end I just wish they were more complete
6:39:21and I don't understand why they're
6:39:22coming in in bits and pieces like what's
6:39:25causing that so the 10th oh you went to
6:39:28you went to the Rockies game yeah okay I
6:39:31didn't see him that day
6:39:33[Music]
6:39:57was okay so this one's
6:40:01on Sunday night yeah at 4:07 p.m. what's
6:40:05he talking about pounding fruit is that
6:40:07you or him that's him oh so he was
6:40:10talking about that that birthday party
6:40:12he was going to come to whoever I was
6:40:14hosting it I don't remember like he told
6:40:16me the name once I forgot I don't even
6:40:19remember to be honest with you like the
6:40:20only names that I remember very well is
6:40:23Nick and Mark those are the only two
6:40:25that I could be like oh yeah like I
6:40:26could tell you like maybe a those are
6:40:29his friends people yeah um what you went
6:40:32to the birthday party and he said oh
6:40:35this guy always barbecues and then he
6:40:37was saying oh he didn't barbecue so he
6:40:40was saying he had fruit and
6:40:43asparagus um yeah didn't do any smoke
6:40:45barbecue the time he did hot dog so he
6:40:47was saying he avoided that he was like
6:40:48trying to eat out so this is the final
6:40:50one this is the one I don't know if this
6:40:52is an order I'm not sure exactly what
6:40:55this is referring to I think this one at
6:40:57the bottom this oh my God that
6:40:59absolutely ridiculous they would freak
6:41:02out that that do you remember when I
6:41:04told you like I was always trying to
6:41:06like incorporate his kids and stuff I
6:41:08mean even if it wasn't like directly
6:41:09like me and him but just like I was
6:41:12always thinking of cute stuff when I'd
6:41:13see stuff I was like oh my God little
6:41:15girls would like that I would show him
6:41:17and I
6:41:19found this box of Lucky Charms that was
6:41:23unicorn Lucky Charms okay and I thought
6:41:25they were really cute and I texted it to
6:41:28him and I was like do your little girls
6:41:30know about these because they're awesome
6:41:32and I was like little stuff like
6:41:34that I don't think that that's the 13th
6:41:38because I don't think I talked him that
6:41:39day what day was the 13th I can't Monday
6:41:41was it Monday I think I got to look cuz
6:41:44I can't I think it will no then maybe
6:41:46these are in order Monday was the day I
6:41:48think that I sent that text yes that's
6:41:50Monday morning at 2:44 p.m. so that's an
6:41:54afternoon Monday is that sound right it
6:41:57was at work when I texted so okay so
6:42:01then it is in so it is in order
6:42:03and this
6:42:04makesense cuz that's Sunday right that's
6:42:07Sunday okay so they're so they're in
6:42:09order they're just missing a whole he's
6:42:11he's basically saying he's
6:42:13still at that barbecue barbecue and that
6:42:17P okay perfect okay so so no so then
6:42:20this one is in the right place I was
6:42:22thinking 88:13 was Tuesday and I'm like
6:42:24I don't think him and I had very
6:42:25pleasant conversation on Tuesday you
6:42:28want to screenshot all those to me yeah
6:42:30yeah
6:42:31yeah and then how you I turned this off
6:42:35but oh this like ninja
6:42:39Cho oh I think that works okay so that
6:42:43takes us down to 629 so then I'm going
6:42:45to scroll up to
6:42:486:30 nja shop
6:42:51interesting it's old old
6:42:57school St did not like it I was like
6:43:01this is scary
6:43:07[Music]
6:43:14I so what you're doing now let me ask
6:43:17you about the text with you in
6:43:21Charlotte you talk
6:43:24about children and he's got his own kids
6:43:27and that makes you kind of uncomfortable
6:43:29because you'd like to have your own
6:43:31family put that in context for me does
6:43:34that is that a fair statement the way
6:43:36I'm saying
6:43:37it I I guess that was never anything I
6:43:40like said to him though okay that's what
6:43:42I want to know did you ever say anything
6:43:44to him about like never anything about
6:43:48his kids being a problem anything about
6:43:51his wife being a problem never never I
6:43:54always try to be so inclusive with them
6:43:56and even when her with her when I was
6:43:58talking to her it
6:43:59wasn't that his kids were an issue it
6:44:02was just this this man already has a
6:44:07life should I go build my own you know
6:44:10was somebody who hasn't done that yet
6:44:12and then she was the one that was saying
6:44:14you
6:44:15know I was engaged once it didn't work
6:44:19and now I'm engaged again and she's
6:44:21trying to tell me like it doesn't matter
6:44:23like I'm on my second time of going
6:44:26through this and she's like I love this
6:44:29man very very much and she was saying
6:44:31like he's not going to
6:44:33love you less because he's
6:44:37already been through marriage on been
6:44:40separated and already had kids like he's
6:44:42not going to those reference were never
6:44:44made to him though about children so
6:44:47Charlotte that's who you were talking
6:44:49with yes did you one time tell me
6:44:51Charlotte to lesbian no she's engaged
6:44:55okay you were you talking about one of
6:44:57your friends that might have been a
6:44:59lesbian at some point that's not the
6:45:02case I don't think so I don't you you
6:45:06never said that about any of your
6:45:08friends that I inquired about I don't
6:45:10think okay so I don't think I think on
6:45:13the first day we talked with your dad
6:45:15there we had I inquired about
6:45:18Charlotte um yeah you asked me about
6:45:20Charlotte and E Harmony and I like went
6:45:23on my text and I was like what is he
6:45:24talking about and I couldn't find it so
6:45:27I was wondering if maybe somebody like
6:45:29reference both of those to but not in
6:45:31together okay I'm that's where they came
6:45:34from so Charlotte is your friend she's
6:45:36your closest friend you guys have this
6:45:39conversation but it never went anywhere
6:45:40besides her and you you never never
6:45:43mentioned it to Chris he never said
6:45:45anything about your kids or his kids
6:45:48part of me damaging your guys
6:45:51relationship no or nothing like that
6:45:55never and I mean and even in that it
6:45:56wasn't like I never said his kids were a
6:45:59problem it's was just like he already
6:46:00has life I don't know about right so in
6:46:04light of what's occurred though what I'm
6:46:07trying to make sure is that there was
6:46:09never a conversation that you guys had
6:46:11that he might have thought that you um
6:46:17were saying I can't be with you if you
6:46:19have kids I
6:46:20wouldn't I wouldn't be with him if I
6:46:24couldn't okay so I'm just making 100%
6:46:27sure that those I promise you like I
6:46:30really want you guys to pull these texts
6:46:31because all the stuff I've been telling
6:46:33you will like okay think and I hope we
6:46:36can I haven't been very lucky with your
6:46:38phones yet there' been nothing but a
6:46:40pain so this one's coming with okay I
6:46:43think I know this is a task I'm gonna
6:46:47some might be but whatever I'm going to
6:46:50send these to you um no that was kind of
6:46:53something between me and her and it
6:46:55wasn't even it was the kids that was
6:46:56that like he'd already been married
6:46:58before and I was just like I don't know
6:47:00if I like am in a long-term relationship
6:47:02with this guy is that something he would
6:47:04eventually want cuz that's something
6:47:05like I would eventually want you know
6:47:09I'm so you're concerned was more about
6:47:11his prior marriage than his children I
6:47:15guess I wasn't honestly I wasn't really
6:47:18that worried about him at that time like
6:47:20if you read the majority of those texts
6:47:21like it's very very flattering to him
6:47:23and all the many things that I have to
6:47:25say about him was just that I wasn't
6:47:27like 100% committed to him yet I mean I
6:47:29was monogamous with him I wasn't seeing
6:47:32any other men
6:47:33but I wasn't like hey this is the guy I
6:47:37want to spend the rest of my life with
6:47:38and part of the reason that I was
6:47:39uncertain I mean yeah he'd already built
6:47:42a life but honestly like he wasn't out
6:47:46of the marriage that he was already in
6:47:50right so I mean I'm not going to go tell
6:47:53the whole world like hey I've got this
6:47:55guy and you know I'm going to takeing
6:47:57his kids and we're going to do this and
6:47:59we're going to do that and it wasn't
6:48:01because I had any problems with them
6:48:02it's
6:48:05just
6:48:07okay um I know the context of that text
6:48:11now like looking at it looks so bad you
6:48:13have to look at it from the perspective
6:48:15that I'm looking at it yeah and how it
6:48:18could be misconstrued or made out to
6:48:20sound something another way that's why I
6:48:22wanted to give you the opportunity to
6:48:24say what it really means okay I don't
6:48:27mean any harm towards those kids I
6:48:29always thought they were so cute when he
6:48:30showed me those pictures he was about
6:48:33him you know and not only that but it's
6:48:35like when she B get those tight she will
6:48:36see like there is not very much mention
6:48:40of his children and if there is mention
6:48:42of his children it's always like cute
6:48:44stuff where it's like hey you should
6:48:46show them this or hey this apartment's
6:48:48great for them or you know what do you
6:48:50think of BU beds and you know like they
6:48:53those little girls like reminded me of
6:48:55me and my little sister they're like the
6:48:56same age yeah I mean like it was so cute
6:49:01like he would call his little daughter
6:49:02the younger one C call her Rampage he's
6:49:05like she's wild and it used to just make
6:49:07me smile
6:49:09because wild sister was totally
6:49:13ramp and it just was kind of like Spa on
6:49:16you know and so
6:49:20like it just kind of made me think like
6:49:23okay these guys are going through a
6:49:24divorce at the same age that I was at
6:49:27when my parents went through a divorce
6:49:29it's like how did I handle that you know
6:49:31and I tell them like you know this is
6:49:33what happened when my parents separated
6:49:35and we were this old and just try to
6:49:36like give him a reference because I gave
6:49:39it to him right okay um I mean but just
6:49:44because I I care about the him and I
6:49:46care about his kids and and all of that
6:49:49doesn't mean that I'm ready to turn
6:49:51around and like commit he ever say
6:49:54anything like that like do I have to get
6:49:55rid of my kids do I you know this
6:49:59shocked me just as much as I think it
6:50:02shocked the rest the
6:50:04world all of it like he lied so much now
6:50:08I go back and think about all this [ __ ]
6:50:09and like it's lies everything that he
6:50:12knew about him was lied I mean his
6:50:13friends let him stay the night at their
6:50:15house he even fooled them it's not just
6:50:17me he Li to everybody he had all of you
6:50:21fool and everybody stood up for him his
6:50:24friends stood up for him I really
6:50:26thought she left I was like let her
6:50:29[ __ ] go you know come back in the day
6:50:32she'll be all right let her cool down
6:50:34she'll be here it'll be okay you know
6:50:36like how do we convinced like I think
6:50:39she's just upset and then and
6:50:45then never what I get I mean even now
6:50:50when I go back through this stuff that
6:50:51I'm like it doesn't make sense you know
6:50:55or it like seems a little
6:50:57off that stuff still doesn't send a red
6:50:59flag to me
6:51:00like hey this guy is going to were R
6:51:03family sure I don't think there was any
6:51:05you didn't have any indication in by all
6:51:08account doesn't seem like anybody did no
6:51:11I just like you know sometimes I like TR
6:51:16have to think what that man is thinking
6:51:17cuz like you don't know you know but
6:51:20it's
6:51:21like how long has his brain been like
6:51:25shifting to this par this Paradigm Shift
6:51:28where he feels the need to do this it's
6:51:30like I just don't believe that it's
6:51:33something that just happens in a day or
6:51:36two days I don't think it happens in two
6:51:39months I think that this is something
6:51:41that takes a very very long time to
6:51:45develop and I don't right so that scares
6:51:48you when you look back at it yeah
6:51:50because I like I think about it and I'm
6:51:53like he could have had that capacity to
6:51:55do
6:51:57that whether I was in his life or not he
6:52:00could have the capacity to do that maybe
6:52:02not even just for them it could have
6:52:04been me it could have been our
6:52:08coworker I mean the more I think about
6:52:11it I mean I think I think a lot of
6:52:15people are going to probably assume that
6:52:17I was the Catalyst for his
6:52:20movement but I don't think you know not
6:52:24me like instructing him but him deciding
6:52:27to do that because he had me in his life
6:52:31because he was so like infatuated with
6:52:34what we had going
6:52:36on
6:52:37but you know like I try to put the the
6:52:40reason to it at the end like why would
6:52:43you wipe out your family to be with me
6:52:47like it doesn't it doesn't like compute
6:52:49it's like how would that go like hey my
6:52:54family just
6:52:55disappeared and you think that I'm going
6:52:57to just not be concerned about that and
6:53:02not only that like he was so about those
6:53:05little girls and I always try to like
6:53:08push him to do that like I told you like
6:53:10every days where where like he would
6:53:13want to come over my house after work I
6:53:15be like no go with your kids your kids
6:53:19are home like that was me it wasn't even
6:53:21him that was me pushing that and he
6:53:23would go do it you know and he spent
6:53:25time with him but he was never like oh I
6:53:26don't want to hang out with them he just
6:53:28be like can I to you for a few hours and
6:53:29I'm like if your kids are aake go hang
6:53:31out with your kids
6:53:33you know if they're asleeping and you
6:53:34want to talk you call me but don't do
6:53:37that while they're up like spend time
6:53:38with them and and I just oh my God and
6:53:42that that is the part that I have like
6:53:45the hardest part swallowing where it's
6:53:47like why would you take them
6:53:51out to spend time with me
6:53:58like it
6:54:00doesn't bit
6:54:03it doesn't fit at all
6:54:07MH you know I but you said he was
6:54:10infatuated with
6:54:12you but even then if he's so all about
6:54:17me and I support him being with his kids
6:54:21you would
6:54:23think that he would want to do what
6:54:28would make me happy it's good point
6:54:33and so maybe what would make me happy
6:54:36was him hanging out with his K was his
6:54:39kids it's in text it's in phone
6:54:42conversation I mean so let just say that
6:54:44doesn't we'll look at it it doesn't I
6:54:47that one particular context in that just
6:54:51it's so open kind of interpretation in
6:54:54whether or not you said it that's why I
6:54:55wanted to address it in particular okay
6:54:58okay yeah there's nothing like that in
6:54:59our text I can say that right now never
6:55:01did you say no yes on I'm sorry how' you
6:55:05ever get any work done you get
6:55:08sidetracked I actually got a lot of work
6:55:12done I'm just teasing you it's a lot
6:55:14easier in the FI than it was in the
6:55:15other
6:55:17so
6:55:2095699 am okay I just want to make
6:55:23sure yeah don't s those to anybody else
6:55:27[Music]
6:55:28please I can do a Time
6:55:33SC probably
6:55:35[Music]
6:55:42send how about email if you emailed it
6:55:45could you select each one and attach it
6:55:47to the
6:55:48email I mean I just want to do it
6:55:52here okay that's right you don't have
6:55:55WiFi on the phone no I don't have
6:56:00[Music]
6:56:03just a
6:56:07slow yeah I don't
6:56:09know sometimes I just feel
6:56:12like sometimes I legitimately think that
6:56:16that man's cheese is sliding off of his
6:56:18cracker long
6:56:20before I came in his
6:56:23life have you stayed away from the media
6:56:26the last couple of days yeah I guess I
6:56:28know where I live I like I mean know
6:56:30what they're reporting about him or the
6:56:33cakes no so you've been watching that
6:56:36kind of I I
6:56:39have so you saw the video of him like
6:56:43talking about relationships oh I don't
6:56:46really I can't even like bring myself to
6:56:48like watch most of that stuff I like
6:56:51scroll through the headlines if they
6:56:53look different
6:56:54than
6:56:57what I
6:57:00uh prev like knew about the
6:57:05investigation kind looking for my name
6:57:08that I know when it
6:57:10happen I can deal with that but other
6:57:13than
6:57:14that
6:57:16no I
6:57:18don't I never actually watched that
6:57:20video okay I don't really like have a
6:57:23hard time like looking at him now it's
6:57:26kind of the same thing like when I
6:57:27deleted the text like I saw his mug shot
6:57:30and I like looked at it the first time I
6:57:33saw it and it scared me and now when I
6:57:35see it I just
6:57:37like
6:57:39move
6:57:40because I find
6:57:43[Music]
6:57:46it to
6:57:49be I don't
6:57:53get I don't know how to work this new
6:57:56phone
6:57:59now attached
6:58:04I think some of these are repeat I'm
6:58:05sorry it's okay okay as long as I have
6:58:07them all it'll be great I think
6:58:09[Music]
6:58:14you look like you've been drinking way
6:58:16too much
6:58:18coffee I'm
6:58:20[Music]
6:58:24sh they're coming you don't have the one
6:58:27at the very
6:58:29bottom oh you do no you don't
6:58:32there you know you're missing the last
6:58:36one send me the last one and we'll send
6:58:38you out of
6:58:40here and then don't think about this
6:58:42stuff for a while
6:58:45I'm easier when I'm done with your phone
6:58:49um I'll get this back to you I mean if
6:58:51you guys going to keep it just no we
6:58:52won't need to keep it because what it's
6:58:54going to do if I take everything then
6:58:57it's just easy I get it back to you okay
6:58:59so the examiner that's going to look at
6:59:01it uh she comes back in early next week
6:59:05um and I'll try to Corral her to do that
6:59:08as early as possible so we can download
6:59:11your phone and get it returned to
6:59:24[Music]
6:59:30you totally different than an iPhone I
6:59:33know that and she's been a long time
6:59:38it's actually this oh let me go see if I
6:59:42can find his in dark number real quick
6:59:44too I'll be right
6:59:45[Music]
6:59:48back right
6:59:52[Music]
7:00:00back
7:00:08[Music]
7:00:23[Music]
7:00:30for for
7:00:39[Music]
7:00:51[Music]
7:01:02the
7:01:04[Music]
7:01:28[Music]
7:01:38[Music]
7:01:53turn
7:02:02[Music]
7:02:22[Music]
7:02:30all
7:02:32[Music]
7:02:39[Music]
7:02:48[Music]
7:03:00for
7:03:07[Music]
7:03:30for
7:03:31[Music]
7:03:43[Music]
7:04:00for for
7:04:04[Music]
7:04:26[Music]
7:04:42okay
7:04:46720 he just reading
7:04:51those look for his own Darko stuff so
7:04:53then he can get out of here
7:04:59[Music]
7:05:16F so that would have been on the 12th or
7:05:20the 13th what day was
7:05:23Monday um 11 through
7:05:27Saturday so the 13th for the be day okay
7:05:30so we're about the 13th
7:05:32[Music]
7:05:37[Music]
7:05:47cont I
7:05:49won it's okay need to say this time I'm
7:05:53so
7:05:55sorry I really like I just know it's
7:05:58fine don't beat up yourself about it
7:06:00we've already been through this G times
7:06:02it is what it is is there any older ones
7:06:05potentially
7:06:06fromand that's a possibility is there a
7:06:09way to search
7:06:10those can you
7:06:14go
7:06:17and I haven't used this phone in
7:06:21years yay
7:06:2472 it's going to be like that's
7:06:27everybody
7:06:29nope okay n on your phone okay I tried
7:06:35how about in your
7:06:36Co that was text messages in your Co did
7:06:39you ever converse with him on that phone
7:06:41I mean this phone's pretty old uh but I
7:06:44don't think oh but it's it's downloading
7:06:46all sorts of stuff how about you look at
7:06:47your call and let see let's see if it's
7:06:50down
7:06:52no 1102
7:06:552016 okay and then all these these are
7:06:58all 2016 so it didn't update the call up
7:07:01all it did was today once I got the
7:07:07pH okay is that a Samsung
7:07:11galaxy5 yeah I just thought it was so
7:07:13weird all those messages that it showing
7:07:14up and I was like that would be so have
7:07:17been really nice wouldn't it I could
7:07:20made my life way too
7:07:22easy all right you ready to get out of
7:07:25here I am all
7:07:28right take your
7:07:34I will call
7:07:35you probably won't be next week I'm
7:07:37going to be busy all next week I'll we
7:07:39go on so I'll call you the week after
7:07:40about when your phone's done um and I'll
7:07:43get that back to you and then at that
7:07:46time if there's anything new we can talk
7:07:49about it then you
7:07:53think I do right
7:07:56now have I got no discoveries yet no
7:08:01yeah some
7:08:04stuff change when I get do they know
7:08:07that I'm like
7:08:08one yeah I mean they have to know do
7:08:12they know what you said yet
7:08:17[Music]
7:08:30no for

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