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Chris Albert MSP Interview | Karen Read Trial Discovery 3.19.2024 — Transcript

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0:03Okay, the
0:05body cameras are on and uh we're
0:09recording. Uh today is Tuesday, March
0:1319th,
0:152024. The time is 4:44
0:19p.m. Um, we are inside a conference room
0:25uh located within the uh disabled
0:28person's protection commission located
0:31on the fourth floor of 300 Granite
0:33Street in Brainree. I am Detective
0:36Captain Eric Benson with the
0:37Massachusetts State Police. I'm joined
0:40uh today by
0:41>> Captain George Burial's Mass Day Police
0:43>> and we're conducting an audio and video
0:45recorded interview uh with Could you
0:48please say your name, sir?
0:49>> Yep. It's uh Christopher Michael Albert.
0:57>> And your date of birth, sir.
1:02And your address?
1:16and uh what are what's a good phone
1:18number for you?
1:26Okay, just uh today's date again is
1:29March 19th.
1:32[snorts]
1:37>> [snorts]
1:42>> Okay. And just to um do you have any
1:45alternative phone numbers before we get
1:47going?
1:47>> Um no, that would be the only one.
1:50>> That's the only one. Okay.
1:51>> Just to uh rewind a little bit um you
1:54know for the benefit of the record, you
1:55know, how we came to to be here. I'm
1:58just going to rewind and sort of go uh
2:00do a hit list of our interactions. uh
2:03prior to today.
2:04>> Sure.
2:05>> Um
2:06yesterday, uh March 18th, um 2024, I
2:12gave your uh cell phone a call at about
2:14uh 12:51 p.m. and left your voicemail.
2:17Is that correct?
2:18>> Correct.
2:18>> Asking you to give me a call back that I
2:20was asked to uh um look into something
2:23and uh and was looking to talk to you.
2:26>> Is that correct?
2:26>> Yep, that's correct. Yep.
2:27>> Okay.
2:27>> I actually didn't notice it for a little
2:29while after, but I saw the voicemail and
2:31>> Sure. Y
2:32>> never a good idea to answer calls from
2:34numbers you don't know.
2:36>> Uh so you didn't answer that call. Uh
2:39some time went by uh and um you called
2:43me back um
2:46around uh 2:24 p.m. yesterday. um after
2:50I had spoken to your wife Julie and you
2:53just had a u a couple questions
2:56regarding um sort of what we were
2:58looking to do um you know our the scope
3:00of our investigation inquiry etc. Is
3:03that is that
3:04>> correct? Yes. Yeah.
3:05>> Um and and you would ask sort of what
3:07the uh you know what the purpose was,
3:10who who was asking us to do this etc.
3:12whether it wasn't for an internal
3:14affairs investigation or some other
3:16purpose. And I explained that uh the
3:18Norfor County District Attorney's Office
3:20had asked uh us to uh investigate the uh
3:25some relationships um that have been um
3:30the true nature of which are somewhat in
3:32dispute, I suppose. Uh, and these
3:35relationships are between witnesses in
3:38the John O'Keefe um, homicide
3:42investigation and the um, case officer,
3:46the state police case officer of the
3:48investigation, trooper Michael Proctor.
3:50Is that uh,
3:52>> yeah, it's a fair Yeah, it's fair
3:53assessment of it. Yep. And uh I
3:56indicated that although we're not um
3:58internal affairs that uh you know this
4:01is not a we wanted to do a formal
4:03interview that this was not um for
4:05internal affairs but obviously anything
4:07that is that is said could be shared
4:09with internal affairs if if that was uh
4:12requested.
4:13>> Sure.
4:13>> Is that
4:14>> yeah that's yeah
4:15>> that's very accurate. Um and uh and then
4:18during that same conversation I believe
4:20that we tenatively agreed to meet
4:23sometime today. I think you were working
4:24yesterday.
4:25>> Yeah, I was working all day yesterday.
4:26So,
4:26>> and so you couldn't come in yesterday.
4:28We agreed to meet somewhere in the
4:30greater Canton area um yesterday. I
4:33think I proposed Milton Police
4:34Department initially.
4:35>> Yep.
4:36>> Um so, uh we ended that call uh after
4:40agreeing to meet sometime around 5:00
4:42p.m. today for an interview. Um,
4:44[snorts] I called you back at about 300
4:48p.m. and confirmed um uh confirmed that
4:53we could meet today at 5. Uh, but
4:55changed the interview location um to
4:58this location.
4:58>> Correct.
4:59>> Is that correct? Okay. And then I
5:00followed up at 3:02 with a text message
5:03of this address
5:04>> of the address. Yep. Correct.
5:06>> Okay. And then um and then just today we
5:10we exchanged a couple of texts. you had
5:12asked to move the um the meeting up uh
5:14or the interview up uh a little bit uh
5:17to accommodate your schedule and so we
5:19we bumped it up a little bit to 4:30.
5:22>> Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't sure how
5:23long it was going to take and I didn't
5:24know if I was going to I didn't want to
5:25be pressed too pressed for time.
5:27>> Sure. All right. Perfect. And is that a
5:29uh sort of a fair and accurate
5:30assessment of sort of our interaction
5:32leading up to this to this interview?
5:34>> I'd say it's exactly how. Yep.
5:36>> Okay. And um uh and just just for the
5:40record, um do you know me? Have you ever
5:43met?
5:43>> I've never met you. No, I've never seen
5:45you before. No.
5:46>> Okay. And I I don't recall uh ever
5:48having met you either. Uh do you have
5:51you ever met Captain Barios?
5:52>> I don't believe so. I don't Nope. I
5:55don't think so.
5:56>> Okay. And Captain Barios, you don't?
5:59>> No. This is the first time that I'm
6:00meeting Mr. Albert.
6:02>> Yeah.
6:02>> Okay. Okay. Um,
6:05very well. So, uh, before we get, uh, to
6:09the questions, well, I guess, uh, you
6:12know, you had, you arrived today. You
6:14came up the elevator and you waited in
6:15the state police lobby here. We came to
6:18get you, introduced ourselves, brought
6:19you into this room, asked you if you had
6:21any questions before we started the uh,
6:23the interview. Is that
6:25>> Yeah, correct.
6:26>> No, no questions. Do you have any now?
6:28>> No, not really. No, I'm here to answer
6:30whatever kind of questions you guys need
6:32me to answer. And
6:33>> okay, go from there.
6:35>> Well, uh, if that's the case, we'll just
6:37get right into it here. Sure.
6:39>> Um,
6:40>> uh, do you know Trooper Michael Proctor
6:43or any of his, uh, family members?
6:45>> Yes, I know Trooper Michael Proctor.
6:47Yep.
6:47>> Okay. And do you know his, uh, wife,
6:50Elizabeth?
6:51>> Yes. I mean, loosely I know her. I mean,
6:54I know Elizabeth's married to Michael
6:55Proctor. I didn't know, you know, until,
6:59you know, maybe the last
7:02six, seven years. I don't know the
7:03exact, you know, how exact how long it
7:05is, but yeah.
7:07>> Okay. And um uh do you know his uh
7:10sister?
7:10>> I do. I know Courtney. Yep.
7:12>> Okay. How long have you known um who did
7:15you meet first of that group of
7:18>> Courtney for sure? Yeah. Courtney. Yep.
7:20>> How long have you have you known
7:22Courtney? Um
7:24gosh,
7:26so let me see. I would say I've known
7:30Courtney for at least 20 plus years.
7:34I mean, we grew up in the same town, but
7:36I'm a lot older than she is. So, you
7:39know, our paths never crossed um when we
7:42were younger at least.
7:45>> Okay. I'd say roughly 20 plus years.
7:48>> All right. You're a lot older. past
7:49didn't cross
7:51obviously for age means a lot more when
7:54you're younger and and so um
7:57>> I meant like school age and stuff you
7:59know.
8:01>> And how did you meet her?
8:03>> So I I guess I would think that I met
8:05her because of my sister-in-law Jillian.
8:08Um Jillian Daniels is like best friends
8:10with Courtney. They since they were
8:13little. Um, so I'm assuming at some
8:16point in our lives, I met her through
8:19Jillian, through my wife, who's Julie,
8:23who's uh Jillian's sister. Um, I
8:26couldn't really pinpoint exactly when I,
8:28you know, when I first met Courtney, but
8:32I've known her for ever since, um, I
8:36guess my kids were little. Yeah.
8:39>> Okay. So, you've known Courtney since
8:41your kids were little. And how old are
8:43your kids?
8:43>> So, my oldest is 25. My middle one's 20.
8:47He just turned 20. And my youngest is
8:4916.
8:59Okay. And uh how long have you known um
9:03Trooper Proctor? Michael Proctor. So, I
9:06would if I was to put a number on it,
9:08I've probably known Trooper Proctor for
9:12I mean I I guess
9:15like I mean I know who he is, but as far
9:18as like knowing him probably I've known
9:20who he was for maybe 15 years
9:24if I was to put a number on it.
9:27>> Okay. And and how did that knowledge of
9:30him come about
9:32>> from Courtney? I suppose um just knowing
9:35that she had a brother named Michael um
9:38that's probably when I you know when I
9:41met when I figured out that I knew who
9:43Michael pro even though he's from Canton
9:45once again he's a lot younger than me so
9:47I I've never I never knew him growing up
9:50cuz you know age is age I'm I'm almost
9:5253 and I don't even know how old Michael
9:54is he's in his 40s I assume.
9:56>> Okay. But
9:58um yeah, so I'm assuming like when you
10:01know Courtney was close with my kids
10:04growing up, well close kind of closer to
10:07my some of my kids. So I'm assuming at
10:10some point she Oh, I have a brother
10:11Michael or something. I didn't really
10:13know Michael at all.
10:15>> Okay. And um and what about Michael's
10:18wife Elizabeth? So, like I said earlier,
10:21like I probably just met her through
10:24Courtney at some sometime somewhere. I
10:27don't even know exactly when. Um I
10:32probably met Elizabeth for the first
10:33time within the last six or seven years
10:36if I was to guess.
10:39Probably at a function at at um
10:42Mike's parents house.
10:44>> Okay. And did you attend their wedding?
10:47>> Their wedding? No. No, I've never I
10:49don't attend their wedding.
10:53I don't even know exactly when they got
10:54married to be honest.
10:58Okay.
11:01Um, how often do you communicate with
11:05um, uh, Courtney? Um,
11:09you know, before
11:11before this whole entire all these
11:13events, I probably saw her more often
11:16and a lot less. I I don't communicate
11:18with Courtney much. I don't really Once
11:21in a while like she maybe would send me
11:23a funny a funny text or say happy
11:25birthday to me or I would say happy
11:27birthday to her but not very often. I'm
11:31not like super close with Courtney. My
11:33wife's obviously closer with her. Um
11:36>> and and those texts would they be sort
11:38of group texts or would they be sort of
11:41personal?
11:42>> I don't think so. I think it was just
11:43probably me or her. My wife might say
11:45like, "Hey, it's Courtney's birthday.
11:46send her a happy birthday text or
11:48something simple as that.
11:51>> Okay.
11:51>> I couldn't even tell you the last time
11:52I've texted Courtney. I wouldn't even
11:54>> Okay. But is it safe to say that you um
11:57that you have communicated with Courtney
11:59by telephone, a text message, voice
12:02call? Um a call probably probably not a
12:06text. Yes. An actual phone call. I don't
12:09know if I've ever spoken to Courtney on
12:10the phone.
12:11>> Okay. But
12:13>> I couldn't say exact. I mean I it's it's
12:14quite possible but Mostly anytime I've
12:17ever talked to Courtney, it's through a
12:18text message.
12:19>> And And how often would that be if you
12:22go? I probably don't even have 10 text
12:24messages in the last 20 years from her.
12:27>> Okay. So, you're talking
12:29>> very rarely. Very sporadically.
12:30>> If if once a year then
12:32>> probably. Yeah.
12:33>> Yeah. Okay.
12:35>> Probably a birthday like my birthday or
12:37her birthday. So, that'd be once a year.
12:39>> So, would you classify it as uh rarely?
12:42Very rarely some some
12:44>> I'd say rarely. really.
12:46>> Yeah.
12:47>> Okay. Um, do you uh are you friends with
12:51are you on social media?
12:53>> I am obviously like once again because
12:55of this whole entire case I've limited
12:58my use on social media but yeah I mean I
13:00have a Facebook account. Um I guess I
13:03have a Twitter which I don't use. Um
13:05>> are you friends with Courtney on
13:06Facebook?
13:07>> I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah.
13:11Yeah. I'm I'm almost 99% sure I am.
13:14>> Okay. whatever that means nowadays,
13:16>> right? Um, do you uh communicate um with
13:20Courtney using any um sort of encrypted
13:23messaging apps? Other like WhatsApp
13:26stuff like that?
13:26>> I don't even Nope.
13:28>> Okay. Uh how about um Trooper Proctor?
13:33Do you uh communicate? How often do you
13:35communicate with him? Oh god. I I would
13:37probably I probably
13:41only talked to Michael Proctor on the
13:43telephone if I was to put a number on it
13:45three times in my entire life. And all
13:48three times had to do with setting up an
13:50interview to talk to him.
13:52Or maybe one time was when my son Colin
13:54had to have an interview.
13:57>> All of those communications were in
13:59regard to this case.
14:00>> Correct. I've never spoken. Yeah. To
14:02>> the death of John O'Keefe.
14:03>> Correct.
14:16Okay. And you um but you have his
14:19telephone number.
14:21>> I did you
14:23>> I I had to get it. I don't have it like
14:25I don't have his telephone number stored
14:27in my phone but I definitely have his
14:29telephone number because I have one text
14:32messages from him that when my son had
14:36to give an interview I wanted to know if
14:38he was done and and um the text message
14:41is like okay okay or yes he's done or
14:44something like that I don't even know
14:45exactly okay but I don't have it stored
14:48I couldn't tell you what his phone
14:48number is off the top of my head okay so
14:51prior to this um to the investig
14:54stigation prior to John O'Keefe's death.
14:56>> Y
14:56>> do you believe that you um ever spoke to
14:59Michael Proctor?
15:00>> Never on the telephone. I could
15:02>> never had his number.
15:03>> Never.
15:06>> I would have no reason to.
15:18>> What about um um Facebook or other
15:21social media? Are you friends on
15:23Facebook
15:23>> with Michael? I mean, I could look up
15:25and I could tell you if I am. I'm not
15:27sure. You know how Facebook is all of a
15:29sudden everyone like friend requests you
15:30or then you have like a million friends
15:33which you're not even friends with. I
15:34don't know if I'm Facebook friends with
15:35them. I really don't know.
15:37>> Do you mind checking?
15:37>> I don't mind checking at all.
15:42>> Excuse me. It' be interesting to find
15:44out because I don't even know if I am.
15:52I don't even know if he goes by Michael.
15:53If he goes by Mike,
16:05it's P O P R O C T O R. Okay. I don't
16:09even know how to spell his name exactly.
16:25I have to do it a different way cuz I
16:27tried that way and it doesn't say that
16:28I'm trying to
16:45I mean, it's not saying that I am, but I
16:48don't want to be wrong here either.
16:51>> No, if if
16:52>> Yeah, I just don't want to take too
16:54much.
16:54>> I get it.
16:56>> You know, take your time, but uh
16:58>> do you believe uh regardless of whether
17:00you're Facebook friends, do you believe
17:01that you've had any sort of Facebook
17:03messages or anything
17:06with him?
17:07>> No.
17:08>> And what about other forms of social
17:10media? with Michael Proctor? No, never.
17:13>> And what about like encrypted messaging
17:14apps or WhatsApp?
17:17>> Um, no, never.
17:19>> Okay. And what about Elizabeth Proctor?
17:22Uh, do you speak to her at all on the
17:24phone or Facebook or?
17:26>> Um, I've never spoken to I don't think
17:28I've ever spoken to Elizabeth Proctor on
17:30the telephone. Um, I think I might have
17:32had a text or two with her only only in
17:35regards to the this whole entire Turtle
17:38Boy crap. Um, which is, you know, this
17:41this guy that was been blogging about my
17:43son, about me, my family, my extended
17:46family. I think I might have had
17:49maybe two maybe two text messages with
17:51Elizabeth, but literally only to do with
17:55Turtle Boy.
17:57I [snorts] don't have her number stored
17:58either. So,
18:01okay. And they were regarding Turtle
18:03Boy. Do you know how you got Elizabeth's
18:04number? How you came to get her number
18:06or?
18:07>> I don't. I'm assuming maybe from my wife
18:10maybe.
18:11>> Okay.
18:12>> Yeah. [snorts]
18:23Okay. [snorts] Have you ever um have you
18:27ever engaged in personal conversation
18:29with with Michael Proctor like in
18:31person?
18:33Not in reg not in um um not in regard to
18:37this investigation but in other
18:39>> section. Oh, per like Oh, not in regards
18:42to this.
18:42>> Not in regards to this investigation.
18:44Just
18:44>> I see what you I see what you mean. What
18:45was your go?
18:47>> So, the only time that I've ever been
18:48with Michael Proctor besides when I gave
18:51an interview to Michael Proctor would be
18:53at his either his mother's house in
18:56Randolph, which they've recently sold
18:58and they've moved in with Courtney, or
19:00at Courtney's house
19:03um during someone's birthday, maybe. So,
19:06those are the only times that I've ever
19:08been in a personal setting with Michael
19:09Proctor was either at his mother's house
19:10in Randolph or his sister's house in
19:13Canton. I think maybe during
19:14Thanksgiving we went over there or
19:16something.
19:18Court meaning Courtney's the mothers. It
19:20would be like, you know, one of
19:22Courtney's kids birthday parties. Not
19:25even Michael's cuz Michael's kids,
19:27they're a little they're much younger
19:28than Courtney's kids.
19:32So, the only time that you've ever been
19:34in the same social setting with Troop
19:36Proctor has been either at uh his
19:39mother's house or Courtney's house.
19:41>> Correct. Correct.
19:43>> Um, have you ever been to his house?
19:45>> Never.
19:46>> You've never been to his house? [snorts]
19:49>> Um,
19:51I've driven by his house before, you
19:53know, cuz I it's it's a cutter from one
19:55another's, but I've never been to his
19:56house.
19:57>> Sure.
19:58um
20:00these times when you have been in his
20:03company in these social settings either
20:05at his mother's house or at Courtney's
20:08house. Uh
20:09>> can you describe those? How many were
20:11there? Um to the best of your
20:14recollection was
20:16>> if I was to put a number on it, I would
20:18say
20:20>> less than six times. could have been in
20:22a setting with him if that's you know
20:25and it was literally it was like
20:27Courtney's daughter or Courtney's son
20:32birthday. Um and I we haven't been there
20:35for quite some time. Um I don't know
20:38when they sold exactly but I couldn't
20:40even tell you the last event we went
20:42over to Courtney's mother's house maybe
20:443 years ago. And I don't even remember
20:45if Michael was there. He wasn't all
20:47every time I was there he wasn't always
20:49there. So that's why it's either six or
20:50less. Just regular interaction. I mean,
20:53I wouldn't, you know, like I said, I I'm
20:56not friends with Michael, so I don't
20:57really in a social setting. I say hi to
20:59him and stuff. Sure. But like other than
21:02that, I've never,
21:04you know, he's not my friend. I mean,
21:07we're not friends.
21:08>> Sure.
21:09>> He's an acquaintance. That's you know
21:12what I would say.
21:13>> Um, so you believe there was about less
21:15than six times?
21:16>> Yeah. If I was to put a number
21:18>> um maybe and you said you referenced 6
21:20years ago when do you recall what the
21:22most recent time was or
21:24>> I'm trying to think um when Michael was
21:27there. Is that what you're saying? So I
21:29would think I vaguely remember at
21:33Courtney's house there was an event. I
21:35don't know if it was during Thanksgiving
21:37um
21:39a few years ago maybe. That's why I
21:42can't even it's not even coming to my
21:43mind because it hasn't doesn't happen
21:45often barely if ever. So I would say the
21:48last time I saw Michael in a social
21:50setting would have been at Courtney's
21:52house maybe like during Thanksgiving 3
21:54years ago. That that just sticks in my
21:57mind.
21:58>> Okay. And why did you go at Courtney's
22:01house?
22:01>> She just invited us. She Courtney
22:03invited us over to stop by
22:07>> to come see the kids and bring my kids.
22:09I don't even know. probably just my
22:11youngest one.
22:13>> Okay. And um and did you have any
22:17conversation with Michael?
22:19>> Not that I remember. If I [snorts] did,
22:21it wasn't of any relevance.
22:22>> It wasn't significant.
22:23>> No.
22:37Um, in terms of
22:40uh
22:42Trooper Proctor's wife, have you ever
22:44socialized with her, been on a social
22:46statement with her when Trooper
22:47Proctor's not been there?
22:49>> When he's not been there? Never.
22:50>> Never.
22:51>> Not I mean I not I should I shouldn't
22:53say never, but not that I can ever
22:55remember. No, I'd have no reason to be
22:56in a setting without Michael being
22:59there.
22:59>> Okay. And what about Courtney? Um, have
23:02you been uh at social settings with
23:05Courtney without Yeah. Without Michael
23:07and Elizabeth?
23:08>> Yeah.
23:08>> And how often would would that be?
23:11>> I honestly recently not often at all. Um
23:15because of all this this whole like once
23:18again this whole case and this turtle
23:19boy nonsense specifically tried to stay
23:22away from people so that that we're not,
23:24you know, we're not near each other.
23:26like I didn't want to be, you know, I
23:28don't need that person writing any
23:30articles about me. So,
23:31>> right.
23:31>> So, um not a lot in the last few couple
23:34years. Not a lot at all. Um we did I did
23:38recently stop by Courtney's house with
23:40my wife um to drop off uh her son.
23:46So, we bought him a gift um like a toy
23:49or something. Um so, we stopped by
23:51there. I think it was like three weeks
23:53ago.
23:55Somewhere around there. Three or four
23:56weeks ago.
24:00>> You and your wife did.
24:01>> Yeah, just me and my wife.
24:02>> Okay. To give her son a uh a gift.
24:06>> Yeah, totally.
24:15Okay. Um
24:20All right.
24:26Have you ever been to parties, weddings
24:28or social events where Trooper Proctor
24:31or Elizabeth andor Elizabeth have been
24:34present?
24:34>> So the only thing the only event like
24:36that that I went to was a wedding and it
24:38was Courtney's wedding. Um
24:42my son was a ring bearer. Courtney was
24:44real close with my son Colin. They were
24:46well they were close. She was um
24:49she was um good to my son Colin and she
24:53picked Colin to be her ring bearer in
24:55her wedding. So Michael was there.
24:59>> Okay.
24:59>> Obviously that's Cody's brother. So
25:01Michael was there. Do
25:01>> you remember when that was? That was a
25:03while ago.
25:03>> Yeah, it was a while ago. Um I would say
25:07I think my son was seven, so I'm
25:09guessing it was around 13 years ago.
25:15I mean, I don't know her exact wedding
25:18date, but it would be her anniversary.
25:20So, whenever that So, I'm guessing 13
25:22years.
25:23>> And at that wedding, do you recall
25:25having any substantive conversation with
25:27Trooper Proctor?
25:28>> I don't even remember if I even I
25:30probably said hello to him. It's about
25:31it. I don't even know if that probably
25:33might have been even the first time I
25:35met Michael. If I Yeah, probably was.
25:56Okay. Um, any birthday parties or
26:00anything where Trooper Proctor and his
26:02wife have been uh present?
26:05>> Yeah. So, I'm assuming over at
26:06Courtney's mother's house
26:08>> Mhm. Um, there's probably definitely
26:11been a couple of birthday parties. I'm
26:13assuming that they were Courtney's kids
26:15and not Michael's kids because his kids
26:17are a lot younger and I wouldn't
26:19necessarily been I wouldn't be invited
26:21to go over there for Michael's kids,
26:23>> right?
26:23>> Cuz I don't I'm not like close with
26:25them. So,
26:26>> Right.
26:26>> But your your wife is is close to
26:29Courtney and so
26:32>> on the basis of that relationship, you
26:33go to Courtney's house. Courtney's
26:35brother is Michael. So, Michael just
26:37happens to be just yeah
26:38>> in the same orbit there during these
26:40things. Okay.
26:49>> And there's plenty of times that I've
26:50gone over the years to Courtney's
26:52parents house when Michael's never been
26:54there. Probably more often than not, he
26:56wasn't there when I've been there.
26:57>> Okay. That would say like the six times
27:00that I've ever seen him there.
27:02>> Okay. And to sum up your interaction
27:05with uh troop proctor at these events,
27:07what would you how would you sum that
27:09up?
27:10>> Just very like nonchalant, just like
27:13passing by. I'm more like friendly with
27:16like Courtney in, you know, close to her
27:18mom and dad, you know,
27:20>> so
27:22just sparingly. Not I don't even I
27:24couldn't even remember a conversation
27:25I've ever had with Michael at that
27:26house.
27:27>> Okay.
27:29>> I'm sure I've said hello to him. Maybe
27:31he talked about something sports or
27:32something, but other than that, nothing.
27:33>> Can you specifically recall any
27:35conversation that you've had with him?
27:36>> Never. Honestly, I can never been to do
27:38with this uh John O'Keefe.
27:40>> Oh, god. No. No. I don't think I've been
27:43to an event since this case where
27:46Michael's been there.
27:51Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the only
27:53the only time I've seen Michael Proctor
27:55during this whole entire case is when he
27:58interviewed me. when he interviewed me
28:00and when I had to go in front of the
28:01grand jury.
28:03>> Those are probably the only two time I
28:04can't say for for certainty like you
28:07know but I'm pretty sure those are the
28:08only two times I've seen him.
28:10>> Okay.
28:12And um
28:14and you already have answered this
28:16question. You have never been to uh
28:19Trooper Proctor's home.
28:20>> Never. Never.
28:22>> Uh do you know if any member of your
28:24immediate family has ever been to
28:26Trooper Proctor's home?
28:27>> Oh, I highly doubt that. Yeah, I
28:29wouldn't know anyone that would be
28:30there. No.
28:38>> Uh, have you or any member of your
28:40immediate family ever babysat um,
28:43Trooper Michael Proctor's children?
28:45>> No, not that I'm aware of. It would only
28:49be my wife, and I can't ever remember a
28:50time my wife ever babysat for his kids.
28:53>> You have not?
28:54>> I have not. No.
28:59Uh,
29:00were you or any member of your immediate
29:02family ever asked to babysit Trooper
29:04Michael Proctor's children? To to be
29:08honest, the only time I ever even knew
29:10that is because I've watched the court
29:13proceeding and supposedly
29:15it was asked by Courtney
29:18um if or Michael maybe asked Courtney or
29:21Courtney asked Michael. I don't even
29:22remember. I try not to watch it all.
29:25uh in open court it was said that my
29:27wife was asked or was offered or she
29:30didn't offer but someone said you could
29:31reach out to her and ask her.
29:34>> That's the only thing I that I would
29:35ever know.
29:37>> But prior to that you you would have you
29:40had no knowledge there was even a a
29:42thought of
29:43>> of Michael. Yeah. Why would No. Oh,
29:45Courtney's kids that's a different story
29:47>> cuz I know my wife's wa you know over
29:50the years has watched Courtney's kids a
29:51couple times.
29:52>> Sure. But Michael's
29:53>> Michael's never
29:55uh and the first you heard of any of
29:57that was the uh court proc last week or
30:00the week before.
30:01>> Yeah, exactly.
30:02>> Okay. [laughter]
30:03And um best of your knowledge, was that
30:07ask ever put in to your wife?
30:09>> Did they ever actually ask?
30:11>> I don't think so. No, not to my
30:13knowledge. No.
30:18All
30:32right. Uh, did you ever speak with
30:36trooper Michael Proctor directly
30:38regarding the investigation into the
30:39death of John O'Keefe?
30:42Um,
30:44as far as like in
30:45>> Well, I suppose the answer is yes
30:47because he interviewed
30:48>> I interviewed you. Yes. In regards to
30:50that.
30:50>> Yes. Yeah. So, the way Yes, obviously
30:52cuz I had I gave an interview to Michael
30:55Proctor
30:56>> and then you went before the grand jury.
30:58So,
30:59>> and he was he was I think I went to a
31:02grand well I went to two grand juries. I
31:04went to the state grand jury in regards
31:05to the Karen Reed case. And I went to
31:07the state grand jury in regards to the
31:09witness intimidation case against Turtle
31:11Boy. Yeah.
31:12>> In the Turtle Boy case,
31:14>> I believe Michael is also classified as
31:16a victim, him and his wife. So, he was
31:18present
31:20>> in the jury room before we went into the
31:22jury.
31:23>> Okay. All right. Uh,
31:25>> but as far as like convers I didn't have
31:27a conversation with them. I mean, I
31:28think
31:30the special prosecutor might have been
31:32there. I don't I don't even remember but
31:34>> Okay. So, obviously he interviewed you
31:37in regard to the death of John.
31:38>> Correct.
31:39>> Um
31:41prior to or after that, aside from the
31:44[clears throat] normal business that we
31:46um discussed at the outset of this um
31:49this interview, there's always some back
31:50and forth setting up interviews and
31:53stuff like that.
31:54>> Uh and then, you know, reasonable
31:56followup afterwards. Aside from that,
31:59um, you know, anything like that
32:00surrounding your interview with him or
32:03your appearance of the grand jury, did
32:04you have any, um, sort of private
32:08conversations, if you will, in regard to
32:10the homicide?
32:12>> Not that, not that I can recall. I I
32:14specifically made a point not to talk to
32:16people about it.
32:46Okay.
32:48Did
32:54Did Courtney uh ever provide you with
32:57any information regarding the death of
32:59John O'Keefe that you believe was not
33:01public or not yet to be public?
33:05>> I don't believe so. No.
33:07>> Okay. Do you do you know if she provided
33:09any such information to your wife?
33:11>> I don't believe so. Not that I'm aware
33:12of.
33:13>> Okay.
33:15Did did you ever uh attempt to elicit uh
33:18any information from Courtney uh
33:21regarding the investigation to the death
33:23of General John O'Keefe?
33:25Um
33:28not that I believe so. I mean,
33:31no. I wouldn't say that I elicited
33:33anything from her. I mean, the stuff
33:35that's in the paper, you mean stuff
33:37that's out in the open. Have we maybe
33:39have I maybe talked to her about it? I
33:41mean, I don't want to say no, but I I've
33:43never like gone out of my way to, you
33:46know, if anything, we we didn't talk for
33:47a long, you know, we kind of stayed
33:50away.
33:50>> Can you call recall any specifics or are
33:52you just saying that you can't Are you
33:55saying you don't want to say no because
33:56you can't uh
33:57>> Yeah, I can't totally certain or are you
33:59saying
34:00>> I can't recall any specific thing that I
34:02asked that I got out of Courtney that I
34:04asked Courtney.
34:05>> Okay. But you believe that it's possible
34:08that there may have been some
34:09>> Sure. Yeah, there might have been
34:11something.
34:11>> Okay. [snorts] Um, but you don't recall
34:15what any of that would have been?
34:16>> No. No.
34:18>> It definitely wouldn't have been
34:19anything of any relevance cuz I'd
34:20remember it and I'd be and I would tell
34:22you.
34:23>> Okay. Um,
34:26let's see.
34:29Did anyone ever ask you to attempt to
34:32elicit any information from Trooper
34:33Proctor um or Courtney regarding the
34:37investigation into the death of John
34:39O'Keefe?
34:40>> No.
34:44>> Um
34:45are you aware if your wife ever
34:47attempted to elicit any such information
34:49regarding the investigation from
34:50Courtney?
34:51>> No, I I'm I don't believe so.
34:54Okay.
35:00Um, I think you've already answered
35:02this. Um, the uh
35:06you indicated that you do have a few
35:08text messages from Trooper Proctor on
35:10your cell phone.
35:10>> I have one.
35:11>> You have one. Okay. [snorts] Um,
35:15I actually looked for app cuz after I
35:18believe you might have asked my wife if
35:20she had any. So, I'm like just for
35:21curiosity, but I don't even have them
35:23stored. So, I had to punch in what his
35:26number was and then I it's just very
35:28vague. It says like, "Okay." And then I
35:29said, "Yeah, I think I was trying to
35:31call him to see if Colin was done with
35:33his interview done at the DA's office."
35:36>> And
35:38I think I might have called I best of my
35:40recollection, I called. I'm like, "Hey,
35:42are you guys done yet?" And he said,
35:43"No, I'll text you when we're done." So,
35:46he wrote, "All set." And I wrote,
35:47"Okay." Okay.
35:51Um, other than that, I don't have a
35:52single text message in my phone from
35:53Michael Proctor.
35:54>> Any group text messages do you think
35:56that he was a part of
35:58>> with Michael? No.
35:59>> Okay. Um, all right. The um, you know,
36:04we asked your wife and and uh, part of
36:07this inquiry is is obviously to um to
36:10flush out the true nature of the of the
36:12relationship. Would you consent to
36:15allowing us to punch in numbers that we
36:18know are Michael Proctors into your
36:21phone uh and see if there's any text
36:24messages between you your phone and
36:25those numbers and then if there are to
36:29photograph such communications?
36:32>> Um
36:35yeah I mean I yeah I would think I'd be
36:38okay with that.
36:39>> Okay. Yeah. The
36:40>> Do you mean you want to do it now?
36:43>> Yeah, we might as well do it now over
36:44here.
36:45>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah, that makes sense,
36:46right?
36:47>> The uh But yeah, uh but before we do
36:49that, uh the just I had one last
36:52question. We'll just deal with any any
36:53follow-up stuff. Has anyone ever asked
36:56you any of these questions uh before?
36:59Has anybody ever come to you looking to
37:02investigate or inquire about your
37:04relationship with uh Michael Proctor?
37:07>> Never. This is the first time anyone's
37:08ever asked me,
37:10>> so there'd be no reason to.
37:12>> So, no uh law enforcement, no um uh no
37:16state or federal law enforcement, state,
37:18federal or local law enforcement, no
37:20private investigators.
37:23Um no one has ever come to you or called
37:26you or attempted to interview you in
37:29regard to um your relationship or your
37:31family's relationship with Michael
37:33Proctor.
37:33>> No, this is the first time anyone's ever
37:35asked.
37:35>> Okay.
37:37You find that to be out of curiosity,
37:39you find that to be odd considering the
37:41fact that your uh the nature of your
37:43relationship is uh is uh being um spoken
37:47about in open court and um and in the
37:50media.
37:50>> So, in retrospect, I would say I wish
37:54that somebody had asked me, but that's
37:57only we're only here because of some
38:00some defense attorneys trying to drum up
38:02some relationships that don't exist. For
38:05me, that's my belief is that it has
38:07nothing to do that that someone
38:08shouldn't have asked. It was why would
38:10they ask, you know,
38:13>> and are are you aware um and and we'll
38:16ask your your wife again uh this
38:18question because I don't think we asked
38:19her yesterday. Uh are are you aware if
38:22if anyone has ever attempted to ask her
38:24any of these questions?
38:25>> Yeah. No, I don't think so. I don't
38:27think anyone has. I mean, you have to
38:30look at it this way. our like my role
38:32and my wife's role in this was very
38:34minimal. We were out together that night
38:36with John O'Keefe, but she went home
38:38early with a migraine and I and I walked
38:41home and I I so that was the end of the
38:44night. You know what I mean? And as far
38:46as like why it would be asked, I I don't
38:48know why why necessarily would be asked.
38:51I mean, it's small town. I I don't know.
38:52I don't even know why. I wish it did. I
38:55mean, retrospective,
38:56>> it seems to me that like and and
38:58admittedly, I don't know. Uh, I probably
39:00should have been following this case a
39:01little bit closer than I was. But I
39:02don't know a lot about the facts of this
39:04case. Uh, but it seems to me if there's
39:06relationships, you know, being spoken
39:08about, you know, in in open court or,
39:11you know, uh, that,
39:12>> you know, the easiest way to figure out,
39:14you know, the true nature of these
39:16relationships is to at least ask
39:18question.
39:18>> Well, yeah, absolutely. you know, so it
39:20it just strikes me as strikes me as just
39:22a u I mean both as a police officer and
39:25just as a uh human being uh odd.
39:30>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but I mean that's
39:31not my that would be the responsibility
39:33of like Yeah.
39:35>> No, I'm not blaming you. It sounds like
39:37I'm blaming you.
39:37>> No, no, no, no. I get it. But yeah, I
39:40mean in retrospect, yeah, absolutely. It
39:42should have been asked, but I think I
39:44think the relationships were so loose
39:45from the beginning. And I'm sure Trooper
39:47Brock just talked to his supervisors
39:49during it and and gave a synopsis of
39:52what his relationship was. I mean, he
39:54never met my brother Brian in his entire
39:56life, so why would he I don't know.
39:59Okay.
40:00>> If you're asking me if I think Yeah. I
40:01mean, looking back on it, absolutely.
40:03Like I I feel like looking back on it
40:06probably should have asked a few more
40:07questions, but I mean I have no
40:09relationship with Michael. So, and
40:11Julie's is only through through his
40:13sister Courtney.
40:16Okay.
40:19So, seeing as though and and I explain
40:22what we're going to do and you can you
40:24can watch us do this.
40:25>> Yeah.
40:26>> And it's a consensual uh examination, so
40:29you can you're free to terminate your
40:31consent at any time. Yeah.
40:33>> Well, we do have a form as we have with
40:35everything else. So, I'll just uh
40:37[clears throat and cough]
40:38excuse me.
40:44>> Um what is what kind of phone is it?
40:46iPhone.
40:47>> Yeah. I don't know what number or
40:49anything.
40:49>> That's okay.
40:52Uh and this one's associated with
41:09March 19.
41:10>> So just for curiosity, what are you just
41:13talking about? Michael Proctor phone
41:15number. Okay.
41:16>> The um Yes.
41:26>> that. So,
41:32you can feel free to read this over. A
41:35lot of this stuff doesn't necessarily
41:36apply. Like I said, that you're going to
41:38be here the whole time, so you can um
41:41you can withdraw your consent at any
41:44time. But if you agree to it, just write
41:46your name here and then sign down there
41:48where I put the X.
41:49>> Can I ask you a question before I do
41:51this and ask question?
41:53>> How many phone numbers does Michael
41:54Proctor have? Uh we were given um a list
41:57of a few um obviously work phones,
42:02personal phones, stuff like that.
42:04>> Yeah. All right. Cuz the only phone
42:05number that I that I know that I've ever
42:08seen I looked at my phone is is just one
42:11number. So
42:12>> Okay.
42:12>> But
42:13>> and that's one of the that's one of the
42:15reasons why we want to plug these things
42:17in to see to see what [clears throat] we
42:19got.
42:20>> Yeah. But I would hate to
42:22to do it and then not like realize if he
42:25had texted me from another number that I
42:27didn't know.
42:27>> Well, this is one of these things the
42:29why um you know why we're doing it.
42:32>> Yeah.
42:32>> You know, because [clears throat]
42:34if there's the possibility that there
42:35are text messages out there, it's kind
42:37of important to flush flush that out.
42:39>> Yeah.
42:40>> You know, I get what you're saying. It's
42:41uh it goes to the uh you know, the
42:44nature of of your relationship with
42:45them.
42:46>> Okay.
42:48Okay. Yeah, that's fine.
42:59You know what though? Now I'm I'm just
43:01thinking like what happens if if I have
43:02a text message in here that I didn't
43:04know about? Do I have any like liability
43:08from
43:08>> No, you're saying that you don't know
43:09anything about it.
43:10>> Yeah. So, I mean, well, I mean, if if
43:13you're if you're setting up a uh you
43:16know, a murder or something or if you're
43:19talking about about illegal things, you
43:22know, and we see it, then then um then,
43:25[snorts] you know, cat is out of the bag
43:27that we saw it, we can't unsee it. Um
43:30but in terms of you know you're saying
43:32you don't believe you know that you've
43:35had any you know um additional text
43:37messages communications with with uh
43:40trooper proctor um or his phone numbers
43:43and and obviously people are um mistaken
43:47all the time like the number of people
43:49that that certain people communicate
43:51with on a daily basis is is quite large.
43:55>> Yeah. And the volume of text messages
43:57that people exchange with people is is
44:00enormous in some cases. So, you know,
44:02and when you when you multiply that over
44:05the course of of time and years, it
44:07becomes impossible for for the human
44:09mind to keep track of all of the, you
44:12know, various text messages that you've
44:13sent, you know, over the course of time.
44:15So
44:15>> sure that's that's why you know your
44:18your memory even people who's who who
44:21are attempting to to do their absolute
44:23best uh at uh recalling you know events
44:27and recalling uh communications your
44:30memory can only you know uh um can only
44:33get you so far particularly when we're
44:34talking about you know uh things that
44:36happened some time ago.
44:38>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. And that's
44:39why, you know, the the the records,
44:43>> you know, um either phone records, stuff
44:45like that, uh are helpful. And
44:48>> you said, you kind of avoided them,
44:50right, during this whole ordeal.
44:52>> Yeah.
44:52>> So, even if he had sent you a text from
44:55a different number, most likely it was
44:57from many months or years ago.
45:00>> Yeah. No, I know what you're saying. I
45:01just I [clears throat] would just I
45:02wouldn't want to get anybody in any like
45:06>> So, this is my consent thing. That's
45:08your concern.
45:11The I mean the you wouldn't you're
45:15concerned about getting somebody in
45:16trouble. You know, we can't make
45:17assurance that we don't know what what's
45:18on the text. But I mean assuming that
45:20they're that they're noncriminal texts.
45:23>> Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, I don't I don't
45:24even remember like the only text message
45:26that I ever had from Michael was the one
45:27that to my knowledge is the one that he
45:31said all set and I wrote okay. So,
45:35>> so okay, you go with that. We'll just
45:37sign this here. If you can just uh date
45:39it. So, given to me this um right down
45:44here. Just uh it's the is it the 19th
45:46day? 19th day of March.
45:5219th of March,
45:5520
45:5724.
46:00>> 5:30.
46:03>> Okay. And then just the date next to
46:04your name signature block there. Right
46:07there. Yep.
46:15All right. Okay. Perfect.
46:49Okay. All right. The So again, uh you
46:53can withdraw your consent any time by
46:55just uh saying uh that you want to
46:57withdraw your consent and you're going
46:59to stay right here and watch and watch
47:01me do it. So uh
47:02>> so this is just Michael Proctor's
47:04numbers, not Courtney Proctor's numbers,
47:06no one else's numbers.
47:07>> No. Now, if if there's a group text mess
47:11if there's a group text exchange that
47:12includes Michael Proctor on it, then
47:15we'd be interested in that.
47:19>> Okay?
47:19>> Because that would include Michael
47:21Proctor. But we are not interested in
47:23Courtney or Elizabeth or anything else.
47:26But if in the instance where we find a
47:29group text message that includes him,
47:31then that obviously would be relevant.
47:33But in the absence of that, it would
47:36just be between you and Proctor.
47:38>> But if for some reason there's a group
47:40text that's in here
47:43>> with other people and he's in there,
47:45then there would
47:47we would be interested in that because
47:49we would view that as being relevant to
47:51uh to establishing the nature of your
47:53relationship with Trooper Proctor.
47:56>> Okay. I'm starting to just be a little
47:58bit uneasy about it only because I don't
47:59want to get anyone in trouble or
48:01anything if
48:01>> No, I I there was something.
48:04>> I agree. I mean, but I I I don't
48:07necessarily agree. I understand your
48:09your position. Um but uh I'm
48:13>> I'm finding it hard to Well, unless
48:15there are criminal things, I don't think
48:17anybody could get in trouble.
48:19>> Yeah. For it.
48:19>> No, I I I know. I know. I know.
48:23>> Yeah. Fine. Fine. Okay. So, all I'm
48:26going to do is is again
48:28>> put his numbers. Can I watch you?
48:30>> You Yeah, you can come. You can come
48:32over.
48:34And then I can say,
48:35>> "Yep."
48:36>> Okay.
48:41So, I'm going to cancel that. And then
48:44I'm just going to search here just to
48:46see if there's anything that comes up
48:47here. So, I have
48:52few numbers here.
48:57Okay.
48:59I don't even know that it would
49:00necessarily come up like this, but I'll
49:02just start doing it there.
49:34No. Do you think it's a good idea as you
49:36enter one number to say what the results
49:39are?
49:40>> Yeah. the I'm I've been going back and
49:42forth about whether or not I want to um
49:44I see
49:44>> I want to read the the numbers into um
49:49so um I I just performed a search uh in
49:53the search bar of the text message um um
49:58field um in Mr. Albert's phone and I uh
50:03performed a search of uh four numbers um
50:07related to Michael uh Michael Proctor.
50:11One ending in 93, one ending in 65, one
50:15ending in 91, and one ending in 67,
50:18[clears throat and cough] excuse me. And
50:21I did not come up with any results. Um,
50:24now I'm going to go and and attempt to
50:27um to enter it into the new message
50:30field to see if that populates any um
50:34any
50:37um
50:39>> content
50:39>> content.
50:46Okay. The um
50:53the number ending in
50:5693 does not
51:14number ending in 65 does All right.
51:17[clears throat]
51:30And number ending in 91 does not.
51:34Makes me wonder if we are missing a
51:37number or something. Um,
51:48and the number ending in 67 does not
51:51either. Um,
51:53>> not to tell you. Don't you have to click
51:55on the
51:57>> Maybe I do.
51:59Let's try this again. Uh,
52:02>> I know one one phone number. I have one
52:04text message, but I don't know which one
52:06you have. So, click on that. Oh, wait a
52:10second. Is this cancel?
52:13I'm going to send this to
52:18>> It should populate.
52:19>> Yeah. So, I guess it does. I don't know
52:20then. Then maybe
52:21>> because it it it populates here.
52:24>> Yeah. So, it should populate down there.
52:25>> So, it should it should populate down
52:27there.
52:28>> I don't know. I don't know. I've never,
52:30>> but
52:34>> I thought I had one text message that
52:35said, "Okay, all set
52:36>> because new messages."
52:39If I if I go this then it just get sends
52:43me your contacts.
52:45>> I meant down here.
52:46>> Down here.
52:47>> If you click on like No, no, no, no. If
52:49you click on you want to talk. No, I
52:51guess not. I don't know.
52:52>> No. Well, no. I I appreciate your help.
52:54We We'll try We'll try that. We'll uh
52:56and then and then we'll just see if you
52:58can find uh find it because I'm not I'm
53:01not coming up with anything. This is
53:03usually when when I um [clears throat]
53:06>> Yeah, usually it would populate other
53:09other messages you have in your phone.
53:12Um
53:20H [clears throat]
53:21that's interesting. Maybe.
53:25No.
53:26Um,
53:38no. Um, all right. So, you want to try
53:41to find your uh
53:42>> Yeah, let me see. Um,
53:45but I don't have the stored, so how
53:46would I I'd have to go back on that date
53:48that he gave that interview.
53:51Um
53:52h
53:54that's interesting. So again the the
53:57examination of the of the phone uh for
54:00text messages with numbers ending in
54:02936591
54:04and 67 um
54:08revealed uh negative results.
54:14Yeah, cuz I don't have him stored, so I
54:16don't know. Unless
54:21H
54:23>> Can you read me those numbers?
54:25>> What do you think? Well, I don't want to
54:26really read, but the um um
54:31>> maybe if we can search your text
54:32messages. What do you remember what the
54:34text message said?
54:36>> Yeah, I'll search. Hold on. If you
54:38search the your text messages for um for
54:42like the the verbiage of of what you um
54:58huh
55:00it was from like not him and maybe it
55:02was from like another
55:06another guy that maybe his the guy that
55:08was in there with him.
55:10>> Well, if you did you find it last night?
55:13>> Yeah, but I don't know how I found it
55:14exactly. I think my wife told me what
55:17his phone number was,
55:20>> but I don't
55:241781.
55:25>> Well, do you And you said you don't have
55:27his contact in.
55:28>> No, no,
55:30I just asked her what his phone number
55:32was and I punched it in.
55:36Maybe it's a uh number that we don't
55:38have.
55:40>> Yeah, that I wouldn't that I wouldn't
55:41know.
55:43>> What What did What did he say in the
55:44text? Maybe if you if you
55:46>> I did it on the start. He said all set.
55:48I said, "Okay,
55:50>> all set. All set." And then And then
55:53what does that show?
55:55>> It just shows people like that I'm
55:57friends.
55:58>> It's just people I'm friends with. My
55:59brother. If you go show all,
56:02>> if you if you type it in and then go
56:04show all.
56:05>> Yeah.
56:06>> And then maybe scroll down to one that
56:07you don't have as a contact.
56:13>> There's like a million of them.
56:15>> Of course.
56:51There's a lot of offsets. [laughter]
56:53Like a million offsets, I bet.
56:55>> All set. All set. All set.
56:58Yeah. All set. All set. All set.
57:02>> From people that you don't have a has a
57:03a contact though.
57:04>> No. So, no. My wife, my son, someone
57:07that works for me, my vendor, but so far
57:10I don't have a no contact here. You know
57:12what I'm saying? Mostly everyone's in my
57:13contacts.
57:21H.
57:23No. So it would have already been
57:25because I'm trying to think when he got
57:27when my son gave an interview.
57:30>> How did you do the search?
57:34>> All sent in messages. Okay.
57:37>> And then I wrote all and I wrote see
57:40all.
57:41>> Okay.
57:42>> I mean I can ask my wife what what
57:44number she gave me.
57:46>> She's actually going to be coming up
57:47here cuz didn't you want to finish?
57:49What?
57:49>> Yeah. We need to to talk to her again.
57:51Um
57:52>> yeah. I mean, I I guess we'll uh um
57:56I guess we can do that. Um and just see.
57:59Obviously, it um you know um it's
58:02important just to see what you have.
58:04>> Yeah. No, I get it. Oh, no. That's why I
58:06let you do it. But yeah, but I don't
58:08have any of those numbers.
58:09[clears throat]
58:09>> It um And uh Do you mind if I search
58:13your contact list for Michael Proctor's
58:15name?
58:15>> Yeah, you can. And
58:17>> you can come over and see me do it.
58:18>> Yeah. All right.
58:31Unless I spelled it wrong.
58:33>> No results for Proctor.
58:36>> I tried it, too. You could just see I
58:37did Michael and then I did Mike, but I'd
58:40have I'd have no reason to have his
58:41number restored.
58:44>> No.
58:50Now, did you try in the message field on
58:53on the uh message just typing in his
58:55name, your proper name?
58:59>> Um I I didn't know. Um
59:08>> Well, Michael,
59:10>> I have a lot of Michaels in there.
59:13>> No, there's no there's no Mike Proctor.
59:16Michael Proctor
59:18um at all uh in in his contacts. Um all
59:24right. Do you mind if we try that with
59:25your message field? Put put Michael
59:28Proctor in my message field.
59:29>> Yeah.
59:30>> Who's Michael?
59:32>> I mean, you're probably going to get a
59:34million different things. Um but I was
59:38okay with like you seeing if he sent me
59:40a text, but if I mention him,
59:42>> okay,
59:42>> to someone else, I don't feel that
59:44comfortable with it.
59:45>> Okay.
59:45>> You know what I mean? just in case I
59:46said it to like, you know, Michael
59:48Proctor is a dick. I don't, you know
59:49what I mean? I don't, not that I would
59:50say that, but
59:52>> do you know what I mean? It's one thing
59:54if I let you see if he sent me a
59:56message, which, you know, I have no
59:57problem with, but I wouldn't want like
1:00:00>> if I had a secondary discussion with
1:00:02somebody else and I mentioned his name,
1:00:05>> I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. I
1:00:07I wouldn't know what it could be. I
1:00:09could be making fun of the guy. I could
1:00:10have, you know.
1:00:12>> Okay. All right. I mean, if that makes
1:00:14sense to you, I just
1:00:16>> it's uh like like I said, we uh
1:00:19>> I mean, most lawyers probably wouldn't
1:00:20even not that I need like they probably
1:00:22wouldn't even I just let you look
1:00:23through my phone, so you know.
1:00:25>> No. Uh well, we appreciate it. We think
1:00:28that it goes um a long way to answering
1:00:31the questions that um you know, we're
1:00:34here to answer.
1:00:35>> Yeah. No, I totally get it. I mean, so
1:00:37let me ask you a question in retrospect,
1:00:39like
1:00:40>> should like, you know, should people
1:00:42have asked more about relationships?
1:00:44Now, you said that and you know, you
1:00:47>> Yeah.
1:00:48>> Well, I don't know. I I was just, you
1:00:49know, um uh to me, uh if uh
1:00:54relationships are are in question,
1:00:57um somebody should ask.
1:00:59>> Yeah. No, no. I That's fair. Absolutely
1:01:01fair. That's what I said earlier. Like
1:01:03in retrospect, I wish
1:01:05>> I wish they grind down every, you know,
1:01:07every single thing, you know, and they
1:01:09see that I have no relationship with
1:01:10Michael Proctor. Never have.
1:01:12>> Right. And and
1:01:13>> never had a beer with him outside of uh
1:01:15anywhere. Never been to a sporting event
1:01:17with them. I haven't been to a bar with
1:01:18him. I never been anywhere with him.
1:01:20>> Right. And and just my, you know, my
1:01:22opinion, you know, if you're going to
1:01:23be, you know, uh using someone's
1:01:25relationship um you know, and and
1:01:28talking about it,
1:01:29>> should be able to prove it. I, you know,
1:01:31at before I was uh, you know, would go
1:01:34about talking about that, I would
1:01:35probably at least attempt to talk to the
1:01:38person
1:01:39>> and find out what the nature of it was.
1:01:42>> Yeah. No, that makes total sense.
1:01:42>> And to ask the hard questions like, can
1:01:45we look through your phone and and can
1:01:47we, you know,
1:01:48>> Yeah, absolutely.
1:01:49>> Try to, you know, really bear down on on
1:01:52the nature of things. That was all that
1:01:54I was asking just to see if anyone has
1:01:56come has come to you to you know because
1:01:58also that would be another statement
1:02:00that you made in regard to this to this
1:02:03inquiry that could be that could be
1:02:05valuable because obviously any of your
1:02:07past statements regarding your
1:02:09relationship with with Michael.
1:02:10>> No, I understand. I mean
1:02:12>> relevant to this uh you know inquiry.
1:02:14>> Yeah.
1:02:15>> No, I totally understand.
1:02:18>> Ken Barios, do you have anything for me?
1:02:20>> No, I do not. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, no
1:02:23problem. I hope I'm I hope I helped a
1:02:25little bit. I don't know. I mean
1:02:26>> Okay. Yeah. If you can look for
1:02:28>> Yeah, I'll ask my wife messages and um
1:02:31>> like I said, the only one that I thought
1:02:33there was there was one and it said all
1:02:35set and I wrote okay.
1:02:36>> Okay.
1:02:36>> Cuz I was downstairs at the DA's office.
1:02:39It was like 7:00 at night. I remember
1:02:41it. And he said all set and I said okay.
1:02:45And I w upstairs and met them. Took my
1:02:47son and left. Okay.
1:02:49>> All right. Yeah.
1:02:51>> Pretty good. if there's anything
1:02:52further.
1:02:52>> Yeah.
1:02:53>> No, I don't think you and shut off the
1:02:56body cameras. The time time now is 5:47
1:03:00p.m. Tuesday, March 19th, 2024.

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