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Children raised without a gender left to choose if they're a girl or boy | 60 Minutes Australia — Transcript

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0:00it's not at all unusual in fact it's
0:03often quite lovely when new parents coup
0:06that their baby is the cutest and
0:08cleverest one ever born but a little
0:11kids brains big enough to make the
0:14biggest decisions like whether they're a
0:16boy or a girl well yes according to a
0:20growing group of moms and dads who are
0:23embracing what's known as gender
0:25creative parenting they're deliberately
0:28keeping the sex of their children top
0:30secret because they say the kids
0:32themselves should be free to decide who
0:35they are and that means they're being
0:38raised not as baby boys or baby girls
0:41but as
0:47babies I don't even know if that was on
0:50the banks of Sydney's George's River two
0:53families have put on a big spread to
0:56celebrate some big news Sarah and her
1:00partner Jordan are 15 weeks pregnant and
1:03they're about to find out whether
1:05they're having a boy or a girl I just
1:08wanted to be a girl because I wanted to
1:10be like a mini
1:11Sara I'm team girl but I hope it's a boy
1:14so when he grows up he'll look after his
1:16mom it' be nice to have a little girl 5
1:204 3 2
1:271 it's blue for a boy and now Mom and
1:31Dad can start making plans take him to
1:34Footy go fishing with him you know all
1:36the other the boy stuff take them on
1:38motorbikes the type of stuff you then
1:40you
1:42Zar the father can do it a
1:46[Music]
1:49thing boy things girl things touchdowns
1:52or tuttos we're all split into two
1:55different teams from very early on but
1:58what if no one knew the sex of the baby
2:02even after they are
2:05born that's the philosophy behind the
2:08radical movement of gender creative
2:10parenting where these kids sex is none
2:13of your business their parents are
2:16throwing away the gender rule book to
2:19let the child choose in their own time
2:23whether they're a boy or a
2:28girl meet
2:31Bertie Bertie likes the color purple
2:34fire engines and Elsa from Frozen finish
2:37this sentence for me berti is
2:41a a child ber is a child God still
2:46K Amy and Danny are parents to
2:499-year-old eie a girl and 3 and
2:521/2-year-old
2:53birtie we don't know if Bertie is a he
2:56or a she or anything else for that
2:59matter Bertie is a baby because when Amy
3:03was pregnant she and Dany made a
3:06controversial
3:07decision so why did you decide to let a
3:11child choose their own gender the
3:13experience of of having grazed
3:15Eevee um and what we saw happen to Eevee
3:19and the assumptions that were put on eie
3:22um as a girl um with things that we
3:24weren't that comfortable with I said to
3:27Danny are we going to tell people the
3:30sex of Bertie or that the baby that we
3:33haven't yet had um and Danny was you
3:35know quite unequivocal yes I said no I
3:38said let's just let's just not tell
3:40people which that was shocked because it
3:42was just a few days before before I was
3:45giving birth how hard was it to keep it
3:47a secret not as hard as we thought it
3:49would be and there was a case of that we
3:51thought you know people would find out
3:52very quickly because we'd have the
3:53Relentless questioning about it but
3:56after a while people stop asking and
3:58then they start to make the assumptions
3:59one way or the
4:01other most of us are born with clearly
4:03female or male sex organs gender is what
4:07we've built on top of that the colors
4:09boys and girls wear things they like and
4:12the way they behave and relate to each
4:14other those are the rules an increasing
4:17number of parents want a break and they
4:20say it's much easier to do that when no
4:23one knows the sex of your child in a
4:26pink and blue world birie has access to
4:30all the colors of the rainbow the full
4:32spectrum of clothes toys and activities
4:36when I first saw birdie my first
4:38impression was well that's a little girl
4:40we do get that a lot at the moment
4:43because Bertie is constantly the Elsa
4:46outfit with the Elsa plat in our family
4:49home we make sure that we're not
4:51reinforcing gender pronouns or gender
4:53terms we just let Bertie be who berti is
4:55at the moment um and yes now they're
4:58outside into the world we can't
4:59necessarily manage people putting that
5:02assumption onto them um but Bertie is
5:04Happy enough being berti and we support
5:07them to do be who they are but what if
5:10being who they are is just so different
5:14to other kids so is it confusing then
5:17for a toddler not to have those markers
5:20or not to be able to identify themselves
5:23in a society which where so much is
5:26gender based I don't think birti is
5:29confused at all and I think what we're
5:31trying to do is not limit berti so as
5:34berti gravitates towards anything we're
5:37trying not to say no you can't do that
5:39but to go okay sure go and explore that
5:42thing it might sound extreme but it's
5:45happening all around the world we're not
5:48trying to eliminate gender we're
5:50actually trying to show how Limitless
5:54gender can be right and just really
5:55helping kids find their own path to it
5:57and follow their lead so that they feel
6:00comfortable and
6:02authentic in America someone who knows
6:05how it's done is gender creative
6:07parenting Guru and social scientist Dr
6:11Kyle
6:12Meyers 7 years ago
6:15Kyle and her Australian husband Brent
6:19had their first baby Zuma yay Zuma yay
6:25we didn't assign a gender at Birth and
6:29we didn't disclose zomer reproductive
6:32Anatomy to people who didn't need to
6:34know the reproductive Anatomy that my
6:37kiddo was born with I didn't want to
6:39assign too many labels and assumptions
6:42and you know Destinies on top of that
6:45you can't tell what your gender is by
6:47looking at your body gender is something
6:49you feel on the inside Kyle has become
6:53the poster person for this
6:55unconventional parenting style writing a
6:58bestselling book about her own
7:01experience so you believe that if if
7:04you're born with a penis doesn't
7:06necessarily make you a boy right right
7:09because so a lot of people who are born
7:11with penises identify as a boy um and a
7:14lot of people who are born with vas
7:15identify as a girl a big part in that is
7:18because they're assigned the boy and
7:20girl labels right and are socialized as
7:22such isn't that confusing for a little
7:24child I think it's actually more
7:26confusing to make children think that
7:29what the 8 billion people on the planet
7:32all neatly fit into one of two
7:34boxes so here birdie is how old probably
7:38about 9 months hurricane and that's been
7:40there one a newborn picture in Australia
7:44Danny and Amy have followed the same
7:46path scroll through their family photos
7:49and you can see that sometimes birdie
7:52looks like a girl and sometimes birie
7:55looks like a boy so short hair and then
7:57longer hair y yeah this a big gap
8:00between fighting gender stereotypes to
8:04not telling a small child their gender
8:05letting them choose seems a little
8:08extreme I don't know but I don't
8:10understand why it feels so Extreme as we
8:13interact with adults we don't constantly
8:14go oh good girl Amelia good girl you did
8:17a really good job on the interview we
8:19just say good job Amelia so we're just
8:20kind of saying we're just shifting and
8:22holding back from constantly saying a
8:24reminder about gender to say that's how
8:26you need to perform not Big Field no
8:30in this complicated New World the
8:32children are in charge of their own
8:35gender reveal as it turns out one day
8:38Zumer came home from preschool and
8:41announced he was a boy so was right
8:44around Zuma's fourth birthday that he
8:47said I love he him pronouns and you know
8:52was like that's fantastic and there's no
8:54doubt he's a self assured happy little
8:57boy spending time time with these
9:00families it's clear there's a lot of
9:02love and only good intentions in the way
9:06they're raising their children but what
9:08happens when these babies leave their
9:11bubble and go out into the real world
9:15what they're doing really is is
9:17unprecedented there there have been
9:19really no societies that have tried to
9:21have gender free rearing some people say
9:25what you're doing is child abuse
9:29[Music]
9:32so when are you due Kyle March 25th
9:35exciting yeah and are you starting from
9:37scratch do you need a fair bit we need
9:39all of it yeah on a chilly Winter's day
9:43in Portland Oregon Dr Kyle Meyers is on
9:46the hunt for gender neutral baby clothes
9:49the social scientist managed to keep the
9:52sex of her first child Zuma a secret for
9:564 years until he was ready to choose his
10:00own gender and she's about to do it all
10:03over again so would you put a a baby or
10:06a toddler in something like this
10:08regardless of of gender for sure like we
10:10had dresses for zomer we will have
10:13dresses for this second kiddo what um
10:16we're really mindful of is how dresses
10:20can actually impact mobile development
10:22though so like if a child is always in
10:25dresses then they can struggle to learn
10:27to crawl as efficiently or climb a tree
10:31or run and so I think every kid should
10:34have access to dresses so that they can
10:36feel the magic of the twirl if they so
10:41choose in this famously liberal American
10:44city there's plenty of support for this
10:47style of parenting but outside their
10:50happy family bubble there's still a huge
10:52amount of judgment criticism and
10:55outright hatred some people say what
10:58you're doing is child
11:00PE we're not you know but we're we're
11:03we're Zoomer has grown up in an
11:06environment
11:08where he has access to explore his
11:12interests without shame without Force
11:15right he can gravitate towards anything
11:17that intrigues him to wear to play with
11:21to dream up as you know like a career he
11:23might want to have someday and we say
11:26that's awesome instead of saying you
11:28can't do that because your body because
11:32of your gender right I think that's
11:34that's healthy that's
11:36positive but there's a fine line perhaps
11:39between how far this is
11:42taken and what happens how does a child
11:46orientate themselves in a world where
11:48they are told know you you're your
11:50gender neutral you're it's up to you
11:52whether you're a boy or a girl there's a
11:54very different discussion if a child
11:56comes to their parents and at some point
11:58in the says well actually I'm
12:00questioning this and maybe I am a they
12:04them that's driven by the
12:08child psychotherapist Mark VM runs a
12:11practice in the UK city of Brighton home
12:15to the country's highest number of
12:18non-binary
12:19people he works with families trying
12:22gender neutral parenting on for size but
12:25says for some kids it just isn't a good
12:28fit
12:29suddenly from the work that I've done
12:32and the parents I've worked with um and
12:34the feedback I've had I don't think
12:35there is
12:37necessarily enough evidence yet of
12:40across a broader spectrum of children
12:42with different temperaments what happens
12:44what's this like you know what's this
12:46like for the child how do they feel
12:48those long-term impacts yeah arguably
12:51the long-term impacts indeed we do live
12:53in a world that's very gendered is it
12:56fair to make children feel different but
13:01raising a child perhaps in this way
13:03where they're not assigned a gender At
13:05All by definition they are different by
13:08definition they are standing out no
13:11matter how we look at it it does create
13:13that sense of difference and it is
13:15ultimately still an experiment I think
13:18that is so funny because parenting is
13:21like the ultimate exper experiment right
13:24like we're all experimenting every
13:26single day we're figuring out how do we
13:29keep this kiddo alive you know what
13:32works what works for our family what
13:34works for this kid back in Australia Amy
13:38and Danny are also well accustomed to
13:40defending their unusual Choice they're
13:44raising Bertie as a they the bubbly 3
13:47and a half-year-old has gone through
13:49various fads from fire trucks to Frozen
13:52and is yet to express what gender they'd
13:56like to be there are people who say
13:59you're just trying to push your own
14:01political views onto your children no no
14:04it's generally trying to step back and
14:06saying I'm letting this little person be
14:08who they want to be why do you think
14:10this style of parenting does cause so
14:12much anger and outrage people don't know
14:16what it's like to be parenting our child
14:19we know that there are many stories of
14:21parents who have decided to make their
14:23children conform when they don't conform
14:25we've heard of parents who want their
14:27child to be a footballer to stop them
14:29going to dance who loves playing with
14:32dolls but has to do that in secret we're
14:35not going to start saying that's not how
14:37you should
14:40behave despite the doubters these
14:43families have some perhaps unexpected
14:46allies in the hallowed Halls of science
14:50I think it's a fascinating experiment I
14:53think certainly gender creative
14:55parenting in the sense of not labeling
14:58your child
14:59um you know not having expectations
15:01about you know what they're going to be
15:03interested in what they're going to be
15:04good at I totally get that motivation
15:07but it's just a very very hard thing to
15:10do renowned neuroscientist Professor
15:14leas Elliot has been studying the human
15:16brain and gender development here at the
15:19rosaland Franklin University of Medicine
15:22in Chicago for more than 30 years her
15:26work has found very little difference
15:28between male and female brains at Birth
15:32and in early infancy there is this
15:35belief and it really is just a belief at
15:37this time that because there are
15:40decisive psychological differences you
15:43know um differences in empathy
15:46differences in aggression and verbal
15:48skills that at some level we've got to
15:51be able to find these differences in the
15:52brain there's got to be something about
15:54the function of the brain and the way I
15:56think of it is more like it's it's it's
15:58more of a software difference than a
16:00hardware difference it's it's what sorts
16:03of routines are they running and a lot
16:05of that frankly uh is learned I don't
16:08have enough tools to sort through here
16:11here in Dr Elliot's lab medical students
16:14learn how our brain wiring then changes
16:17depending on what we do with it
16:19especially in the first 10 years of
16:22childhood so if our brains are actually
16:24very similar then I mean Society has a
16:27lot to answer for well well you know yes
16:30and no um we are biologically different
16:34you know the actual psychological
16:36differences between men and women and
16:38boys and girls are really quite small
16:40there is so much more overlap in all of
16:43our uh traits and behaviors and
16:45strengths then there is difference and
16:48yet what putting these gender labels
16:52does on an early age is it widens the
16:54Gap it drives boys and girls
16:57apart knowing this is one thing but
17:00experimenting with it outside a lab is
17:04another thing Al together I think it is
17:07potentially confusing for the child it's
17:09confusing potentially for other children
17:12could their parents be setting them up
17:14for bullying and exclusion um I think
17:18that's very
17:20possible it's something that Amy and
17:22Danny who are getting ready to send
17:24almost 4-year-old birtie off to
17:27preschool soon all too aware of you can
17:30control the variables when they're in
17:33the home as a baby as a toddler yeah so
17:36how do you prepare for birdie going out
17:39into school into the world where a lot
17:42of the markers are gender based we're
17:45not hiding the fact from berty that they
17:48have an anatomy and that their Anatomy
17:49is similar or undiff to their family
17:52members they're well aware of their body
17:54parts their body parts and they know how
17:57to name their body parts they also know
17:59how to yeah they they're in the world so
18:02they are constantly seeing what's going
18:04on so it's not as if we've kind of kept
18:06them away from anything they are exposed
18:08to
18:09everything and being exposed to
18:11everything means birtie is already
18:14putting a toe in the water for the
18:16Saturday morning swim class Bertie is
18:19just one of the gang birie is exactly
18:22who birie wants to be each week and
18:24that's allowed to be whoever they want
18:25to
18:26be halfway around the world there are no
18:29signs yet that growing up as a baby did
18:337-year-old Zuma any harm and Kyle and
18:37Brent are excited to be doing it all
18:39again the things that kind of that I
18:42think about have very little to do with
18:45gender you know I'm thinking more of
18:47like okay like how are we going to
18:49navigate like sleeplessness back into
18:51the trenches yes we are going back into
18:54the
18:55trenches and the trenches don't seem so
18:59bad with the arrival of baby neon last
19:03week Amy and Danny have no regrets
19:07either yet but even they admit only time
19:12will tell would you do it again or is it
19:15too soon to say well we're not having
19:18any more children but absolutely I'd do
19:20it again I I don't absolutely for sure I
19:23can't see that there's been any
19:24drawbacks at all we just hope that we're
19:26doing the best things for our kids and
19:29hope they grow up to be good humans yes
19:31yes that come with kindness and respect
19:34yeah if we if they are then we've done
19:35our job well yeah hello I'm Emelia Adams
19:39thanks for watching 60 Minutes Australia
19:42subscribe to our Channel now for our
19:44brand new stories and exclusive Clips
19:46every week and don't miss out on our
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