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Central Park 5's Raymond & Yusef Tell the True Story of 'When They See Us' (Full Interview) — Transcript

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0:04okay here we go
0:06we have Raven Santana in use of Salaam
0:09of the Central Park five what's up
0:12what's happening
0:13yes sir definitely an honor to have you
0:16guys man you know such an incredible
0:19story that you guys have gone through
0:22and you know I just recently watched
0:24that the documentary that Ken Burns put
0:26together you know to really just get a
0:27better picture about what happened and
0:31you know just want to give give my
0:33apologies to everything that you guys
0:34have gone through because it's really a
0:36horrific set of events appreciate that
0:39man definitely so let's go ahead and
0:43just talk about the story from the very
0:45beginning to where we are right now so
0:48you guys were essentially teenagers well
0:52like 14 15 years old at the time yes
0:54right yeah okay and you guys were living
0:57in the Bronx
0:58no um you still lived in Schaumburg and
1:01I lived on the east side of Harlem yeah
1:03I lived in Spanish Harlem at the time
1:05now at the time and this is the 80s I
1:08guess yeah 89 1989 right late 80s you
1:13know the the New York that you see today
1:15with you know Times Square being a big
1:19tourist attraction and everything is
1:21relatively safe and so forth this was
1:23nothing New York back then no definitely
1:25wasn't not at all I'm Square back then
1:27had you know peep shows a bunch of them
1:29look like it looked like Vegas
1:34definitely different right and you guys
1:38were were kids
1:40I mean before this incident did you guys
1:41get into any trouble or you relatively
1:43good kids no no we we came from good
1:46homes middle-class you know families we
1:48had no dealings with the law this was
1:51our first time yeah that's all of us you
1:53know yeah you know this was like a brand
1:54new kind of experience in terms of you
1:56know I always say to that I always felt
1:58like the cops were your friends
2:00I thought that those were folks that you
2:01know you would see them in the streets
2:03you could say hi to them you could go to
2:05them and tell them what's going on and
2:06be safe and I mean we look at us as in
2:10terms of the inception of what happened
2:11to us in our lives
2:12and then we fast-forward to today and
2:14it's like man no way no how and now we
2:17have a children and we're scared for
2:18their you know for them to be
2:19interacting with officers the way
2:21they're interacting because you know now
2:23they're some of them are our age in
2:25terms of one we were going through our
2:27situation you know I mean and at the
2:31time New York was really dealing with a
2:33crime problem you're you know there was
2:36the the subway vigilante that would
2:39essentially you know shot a couple
2:41people that attempted to rob them you
2:43know I remember there was the was called
2:46the the the guardian angels oh yeah yeah
2:48yeah you know yeah and these guys would
2:51essentially ride on the train to protect
2:53the passengers against the gangs yeah
2:56yeah so there was already sort of a
2:59feeling in New York of kind of danger
3:02and serve an unsafe kind of environment
3:05you know that's true but that's also
3:07like the whole slippery slope kind of
3:08thing when you think about the fact that
3:09you know they wanted to be more tough on
3:12crime but then they they basically took
3:14a paint brush and painted everybody of
3:16color with the same paint brush and said
3:18we're not all of these people lost
3:19acceptable and capable of doing this
3:21kind of thing when that wasn't the case
3:23you know yeah right now the night of the
3:27incident were you guys in Central Park
3:30at the time oh yeah yeah oh yeah what
3:32happened was that I lived on the east
3:34side of Harlem and I'm next to that
3:37complex was a housing was a project
3:41called times projects and so I went over
3:43there to hang out with some dudes and
3:45that night in Schaumburg they was having
3:47a party so we went over there to visit
3:49the party now I didn't know Yusef ain't
3:52no Kevin I ain't no Cory I know Antoine
3:54but how we are winding all together was
3:57through mutual friends some people my
3:59group knew some of the people in his
4:00group and so we went over there to go to
4:02a party and the Schomburg boys all in
4:04front of the housing complex and that's
4:06how we all got together yeah okay so
4:09after the party how did you guys end up
4:11in Central Park oh no we didn't even go
4:13to the party we got into the housing
4:15conflict we got to Schaumburg and we was
4:17in front of Schaumburg you know just
4:19standing around some of the guys just
4:20talking and then somebody was like yeah
4:23we going in the park but before the
4:25Schaumburg boy
4:26that was their backyard they was there
4:28all the time so it was nothing to go on
4:30110th Street and just hang out and so
4:32you know me being 14 at the time I just
4:35followed the crowd okay so a group of
4:39you go to Central Park like how many
4:40people was it I was alive it was early
4:44it was a bunch of cowboys thought it was
4:45more than that yeah you know in terms of
4:47just the way that the visuals look you
4:49know the me it almost looked like 50
4:50people you know I was all the way in the
4:52back of the crowd because I had a limp I
4:54was walking my inch in my leg you know
4:57and you know they were already walking
5:01into the park and stuff like that
5:02and it's crazy because like you know
5:04even when we think about those times
5:05back then it wasn't something that was
5:07abnormal this was something you know
5:09especially for me like grandma is saying
5:10me living in central me living in
5:13Schaumburg Plaza right across the street
5:14from Central Park that was the norm we
5:16would always go into Central Park I was
5:17going in and brought my skateboard I was
5:19going in climb trees you know just we
5:21were going in and walking around the
5:22lake back then it was it was it was a
5:24disgusting lake when you think about it
5:26you know smell real bad but for us as
5:28young people we thought we was doing
5:30something romantic if we walking around
5:32the lake holding hands with a young girl
5:33you know that was the extent of our you
5:35know our ventures into things that we
5:38shouldn't know anything about you know
5:40right so you have a group of roughly 50
5:43black and Spanish kids hanging out yeah
5:47now does anything happen that night this
5:53guy had heard some stories about an
5:54incident someone got beat up and so
5:56forth talk about well not so you know I
5:58mean I was in I was in the back but from
5:59what I saw it didn't start off where
6:04anything major happened people were kind
6:06of horsing around and you know it was to
6:09me it was like young people being young
6:11people and you know some car we kind of
6:14made our way to the main Traverse where
6:17the cars travel around and I remember
6:20people like throwing rocks at the car
6:21and even that stuff that you know you
6:23think about it now like Manson V we're
6:25fighting pretty nice cars somebody throw
6:26a rocket I'll call we gonna be pretty
6:27upset you know but back then it was like
6:30you throw a rock at a car I wasn't
6:32something that was was abnormal or
6:34strange you know in terms of the the
6:37depth of our understanding of what we
6:38would
6:39what we would actually doing yeah and it
6:41wasn't when I say we I'm not talking
6:43necessarily even about me Raymond
6:45Cory and Shawn or Kevin you know none of
6:48us we actually didn't do anything
6:52a lot of people didn't do anything you
6:54know in terms of some of the stuff that
6:55actually happened you know we were
6:58really innocent bystanders in terms of
6:59watching and being witness as to what
7:01happened and you know yeah to really be
7:04able to tell the story all over again
7:05yeah and some things did happen like
7:07like police car hurricane and they
7:11flashed the light on the group and
7:12everybody scattered right so everybody
7:14ran um so we were split and and after
7:18that something did happen like I didn't
7:21know about it because when I finally
7:22come back to the group he was telling me
7:24about it so like you're a couple of
7:27dudes who had got separated for the
7:28group they did jump like an old man who
7:30was walking and considered him a bomb oh
7:32I saw that you know some saw that so and
7:34these guys they did cop-out to those
7:36charges later on they went to prison and
7:38served you know one year or one and a
7:41half years in prison for that yeah you
7:43know and and and stuff like that and and
7:46like he liked you so stated we did go to
7:48the transverse and then we wanted one to
7:50the reservoir and two people did get
7:53assaulted at the reservoir and one of
7:54them was badly but that was about one
7:56person yeah that wasn't by a group you
7:59know it was about one person who did it
8:00and he went to jail for that and he
8:02served a year in prison for that okay so
8:07you guys are part of this group and
8:09certain members of the group or you know
8:12doing things they shouldn't really be
8:14doing they're you know throwing rocks at
8:16cars goes and beat somebody up and so
8:18far but you guys are not actually
8:20involved in any of that you're just part
8:21of the whole crew just part of the group
8:22yeah okay yeah at the end of that night
8:27you guys just go home and that's it well
8:30some of us did um like Cory left like
8:33Cory you know in Cory's story
8:35he leaves the park like right at the
8:38right up after you went in it was like
8:40I'm I so he was like you know doesn't
8:42make no sense for me to hang out with
8:43these dudes he went back home so he
8:45didn't witness anything um you know for
8:47me I got arrested outside of Park you
8:49know by the time that person I got
8:51arrested assaulted by the Reza
8:52and they called the police and the
8:54police came on on the group whatever was
8:57left on it because a lot of people had
8:58left at that time yeah and so oh I want
9:01to get arrested along with a guy named
9:03Steven Lopez you know and then um and
9:07then after that Kevin got arrested with
9:09a guy named uh Lamont McCall um and
9:12another guy named Clarence Thomas yeah
9:14you know so Yusef didn't get arrested
9:17too like two days later or something
9:19like that yeah okay so you guys have
9:21this night various stuff happens mm-hmm
9:23you guys leave and then the arrests
9:27happened afterwards but but on that
9:29night mm-hmm
9:31you know a woman gets brutally beaten
9:34and raped yes that's correct
9:35yes into you now just to put it in kind
9:38of a context things like this were
9:41already happening in Central Park
9:42there was a I guess a string of assaults
9:44and rapes already in some Park yeah the
9:46guy was known as the east side rapist
9:48okay so the east side rapist was running
9:51around Central Park and raping people
9:55but people don't know who he is
9:56well at this point okay so then a couple
10:03days after the incident you guys start
10:04getting arrested mm-hmm when they arrest
10:08you what do they charge you with well
10:09what do they tell you that you're
10:10getting arrested for originally for me
10:12because I had arrested that night it was
10:14misdemeanor charges
10:15so it was like trespassing menacing riot
10:19it was stuff that was supposed to go to
10:21Family Court so originally we was given
10:23des Epirus tickets to appear in family
10:26court and we had to wait for our parents
10:28to come pick us up and it wasn't until
10:30they found a jogger and like those we I
10:33was in the morning that they thought she
10:35was gonna die because they found they
10:37sort of condition in the state that she
10:38was in and so they called a homicide
10:41North detective squad who came in and
10:43said all right well let us question the
10:44boys those that you have in custody yeah
10:47okay and she was brutally beaten and
10:51raped I guess like her her skull was
10:53fractured yeah and so forth I mean I
10:56guess at one point they weren't even
10:57sure if she was gonna live yeah exactly
10:59they didn't expect the delivery
11:00inspector to live that's why they caught
11:02a homicide squad to come on in because
11:04they don't she was on that you know we
11:06got remember
11:06from the reports that everybody knows
11:08about you know this lady lost about 3/4
11:10of her blood you know and it was amazing
11:13in terms of that whole scenario as well
11:14because then when they arrested us even
11:16when they arrested those of us
11:17afterwards you know it them telling us
11:19hey we need y'all to get you closed at
11:21your ward at night and things of that
11:23nature
11:23none of us having a drop of blood on the
11:25on us nobody's skin I mean you know she
11:29obviously put up a fight but you know
11:31the way that they were trying to make
11:33the story sound especially with Kevin
11:34Richardson was that they tried to make
11:36the people believe that she had
11:39scratched him but then when you tested
11:41the fingernails and did forensics and
11:43all that stuff nothing matched any one
11:45of us yeah but they still they still
11:48painted on us because you know I always
11:50said that it was really more sexy for it
11:51to be five you know people of color
11:54brutalizing a young probably wealthy
11:58investment banker at that time you know
12:00right there who happens to be white
12:02blonde 3 yeah so it made for some very
12:07compelling headlights
12:10okay so so Raymond let's go ahead and
12:13start with you mm-hmm
12:14you get arrested you get brought to to
12:19the precinct uh-huh at what point did
12:23they start questioning you about this
12:26well we was there um we was there until
12:29early in the morning um I think kevin
12:32was the first one that they took into
12:34the room and then I was second and so
12:39you're talking like six seven eight
12:41o'clock in the morning so by that time
12:43we was already there the whole night and
12:46the line of questioning starts off you
12:48know it's also very calm it's like you
12:50know just what happened that night tell
12:52us what happened and so you know I go to
12:54the story of who I was with who arcane
12:56with what I saw that night and that was
12:59it and then it was like wait a minute
13:01what about this woman and I go what
13:03woman and they say the woman who got
13:05raped and I'm like whoa I'm learning
13:06about this I never saw that about that
13:09and and that line of questioning goes on
13:12for hours and then I have my grandmother
13:15there who was staying with me at the
13:16time and she spoke very little English
13:18but she she can't carry conversation
13:20she just knew a lot of curse words in
13:22English right and so and so they had the
13:25translate between me and her and so I
13:29guess that became problematic for them
13:31and so it was like alright we gotta get
13:33her out of the room and that's when it
13:34starts and by this time you're under you
13:37know three four hours of questioning you
13:39know of not knowing what's gonna happen
13:41the pressure is just so great and it
13:45gets even greater as the questioning
13:47goes on you know and so for me you know
13:52they started where they start to do the
13:53intimidation tactics right they they had
13:55also come in with knocking the door
13:57he'll bring my grandmother out and he'll
13:59talk to her in Spanish and why they got
14:02her outside that's when they started to
14:03work on me you know Walter and was real
14:06tall he gives me this look you know
14:08threatens me what the [ __ ] are you
14:10looking at
14:11you know at that point you know I'm
14:13about five six
14:15you know 120 pounds soaking wet and and
14:20it just builds from there it builds from
14:22there or to they get me to a point that
14:24I feel like I'm so helpless you know
14:27and and for me that point came because
14:30what the officers coming in and out the
14:31room it happen about three times the
14:33third time is when the officer who's
14:36actually asking me the questions where
14:38he just flips and he's like I'm tired of
14:40this [ __ ] he bangs on the table and he
14:42reaches from me and at that point I feel
14:44like I'm not gonna make it off the
14:45priest I feel like I'm gonna die right
14:47and at that same moment a detective who
14:51comes in the room sitting in the back
14:52stops him you know starts yelling at I'm
14:55cursing at him what the [ __ ] are you
14:57doing you crazy get out the room kicks
14:59him out the room and at that moment I
15:01feel like he saved my life
15:02right and he since then he goes leave me
15:05you were good kid I know you ain't do
15:07this but she got these guys in the other
15:09pieces and they saying you did it I need
15:10your help man and I'm like so what the
15:13hell am I gonna tell his do cuz I don't
15:14know I don't know the facts I wasn't
15:16there I didn't see [ __ ] but what he does
15:19is he gives me a lifeline he pulls out a
15:21picture of Kevin Richardson he lays it
15:22on the table and he says you see this
15:24kid right here do you know him I say no
15:26and he said what is his covering you
15:28seen a scratch on his face that came
15:30from the jogger fighting him off now we
15:32know he going to jail
15:34but I want you to go to jail so I need
15:36you to help me out give me something and
15:38then he just sits back and he just looks
15:40at me and just waits man and at that
15:43moment that's a 14 year old kid what are
15:44you doing we trying to figure out a lot
15:46to tell something just to stop the
15:47pressure from from from overcoming this
15:52is classic good cop/bad well it's not
15:54bad I wanna I wanna I wanna just
15:56interject there because I knew that that
15:58piece was gonna come up in terms of the
15:59classic good cop/bad cop thing but when
16:02you are in there and it's happening to
16:05you TV can't paint that picture
16:07Phebe cured pain so when we see stuff
16:09like that happened on TV I usually tell
16:11folks that's about 50% of the reality of
16:14what really goes on like they Raymond
16:17didn't think they would that the guy was
16:18faking he thought the guy was about to
16:20kill him and come across that table yeah
16:22but it you know they probably scripted
16:24that stuff hey listen I'm gonna be the
16:25bad guy you know what I'm saying you
16:26make sure I don't go too far you know
16:29what I'm saying you know and for us we
16:31scared to death never been through it
16:33okay so at no point do you ask for a
16:38lawyer or anything else like that I
16:39guess you just don't even know about
16:40stuff like that at that point I mean
16:42they read them around the range but at
16:44that moment you're just so afraid and
16:46it's the fear of the unknown that it
16:48doesn't even compute for a 14 year old
16:50kid you know saying unless you have that
16:53experience and you been through it
16:54before
16:54you don't know nothing hmm you don't say
16:57unless some apparent is there to say
16:59hold on waiting I think we need an
17:00attorney
17:01but if it's just me or him he can read
17:03the damn Declaration of Independence and
17:05I'm just like you know okay man
17:10so at the end of all this questioning
17:13for you Raymond hmm
17:15do you actually give them a story and
17:20admit to this crime that you didn't do
17:23well what happened was I didn't give him
17:25a story all I said was I said Kevin did
17:28it because they're the only person I
17:29know who was telling me Kevin did it and
17:30then he says well what did Kevin do and
17:32I said well Kevin was struggling with
17:34the woman right so now he goes okay what
17:38did answer I McCray do and I go who the
17:41[ __ ] yeah I don't even know what it is
17:43but he's like he's dead we know he did
17:46it
17:46and I go
17:47okay so and Shawn uh was grabbing the
17:51lady's legs and then he goes what is
17:54Steven Lopez do and I go I don't know
17:56but he says you know this woman lost a
17:59lot of blood
18:00we don't even know she's gonna make it
18:01something had to be used she had all
18:03these injuries in her face in around her
18:05head something had to be used a rock or
18:08brick or pipe so now he's feeding me
18:11what he perceives us to meet' effects
18:13and that's that's options pick one and I
18:17go okay a brick and he says well who had
18:20the brick I say Steven Lopez and he goes
18:23okay now I don't write nothing down here
18:25i'ts everything down himself right and
18:28this isn't being videotaped at that
18:29point no yeah at that point no he's just
18:32writing it all down and you know when we
18:35get to my party says okay so what do you
18:37do it I said I didn't do nothing I was
18:39just watching the [ __ ] and he goes well
18:41that's not believable if you sitting
18:43there telling me a story you got to make
18:45it more believable you got to be in
18:46there somewhere and so I in my mind a
18:49fourteen-year-old kid I said well let me
18:51pick a less roll right so I go okay what
18:54I was doing I reached over and I grabbed
18:56a woman's breast and he goes okay fine
18:58he writes it down and he goes all right
19:00he did a great job I signed a statement
19:02and then he goes okay I need to do one
19:05more thing for me and I go what he says
19:07I'm singing so another precent you're
19:09gonna tell another officer the same
19:10story and you'll be fine you want to go
19:13home right this is how this is you
19:15helping me I'm help you and and and
19:17that's how it goes
19:18that use of what happened to you exactly
19:20sure so they brought me in after all of
19:24that they come to my house and I mind
19:27you that night I had one almost like a
19:31sky-blue I had on the sky blue jacket
19:34sky blue pants and had a flat top and I
19:36was about 6-3 6-2 6-3 since I was about
19:4012 years old so I was pretty visible I
19:42was one of those guys that if you if I'm
19:44walking through the park as tall as I
19:46was you'd be like yo who's that tall guy
19:47with a flattop
19:48you know so from what I understand they
19:52kept saying it was this tall guy with a
19:53flattop with us they do their
19:56investigation and start going to the
19:58surrounding neighborhoods you know you
20:00need any on
20:01by the tall guy with the flattop yeah
20:02that sounds like that dude came because
20:04that was my nickname back then and so
20:06long story short they figure out where I
20:09live figure out what my real name is and
20:12they go up to my house to see if they
20:14can get me in a meanwhile I'm riding up
20:17and down the elevators missing them
20:18because I'm looking for them because
20:20when I came home from school that day I
20:22bumped into Cory and Cory said yo man
20:24the cops are looking for you I said the
20:26cops are looking for me for what and
20:28Ikes Cory I said did you did you do
20:30something last night cuz I know I didn't
20:32do anything he said nah man I left
20:34almost right after I got in there so I
20:36said well you know what let's go to the
20:38cops and let's tell him what we saw and
20:41I'm gonna be home before my mom gets
20:42back now what's so crazy
20:46what's so and Raymond Raymond already
20:48know what's so crazy is that my name was
20:51on a sheet of paper of people that they
20:53were looking for as suspects when I came
20:56around the corner to my apartment
20:57building after a few hours of us playing
20:59cat and mouse and not not finding each
21:01other they finally are in front of my
21:04door they see me they ask me Who am I
21:06and I say I'm Yusef Salaam they look at
21:09the piece of paper and say this one of
21:11the guys we were looking for they asked
21:13Cory who he is
21:14he said I'm Cory wise they looked at the
21:16sheet of paper they say your name is not
21:19on the list but you want to go downtown
21:21with your buddy you'll be right back now
21:24that's the the the craziest part about
21:25this story is that Cory spent 13 years
21:29in prison for this crime that he didn't
21:33commit
21:33just because he said all right I'm gonna
21:37go downtown with my boy you know I'm
21:40saying just to make sure he I not
21:42knowing that that was part of the tricks
21:44you know okay and so when they brought
21:47me down and brought us down into the
21:48precinct Cory 16 they already searched
21:51me in the in the hallway of my apartment
21:52building they took my wallet they took
21:54my keys and he took all my keys I had a
21:56little little pocket knife you know what
21:59I would have bet on it but in my wallet
22:02I had a bus pass
22:06now folk for folks who remember these
22:08bus passes back then had it was a piece
22:09of paper with a hologram wanted that you
22:11wrote your name and your birth date on
22:13it
22:14I have my official Hospital Medical
22:17medical card in my wallet as well from
22:20Mount Sinai Hospital so we go down to
22:23the prison they put us both in two
22:25separate rooms and they start asking us
22:28about the night well they knew they acts
22:30both of us because they asked me about
22:31the night things progressed and either
22:34the same thing it was like well what
22:35about the woman and I'm like what are
22:37you talking about what woman I'm telling
22:38you this is what I saw now in the
22:41meanwhile I hid him working on Cory in
22:43the next room and they leave me alone
22:46for a while and I ended up falling
22:47asleep and I woke up and I was wide
22:51awake to the sound of a loud bang and I
22:55was immediately scared to death I mean
22:58like every hair on the back of my neck
23:00was on was on edge and I'm like damn the
23:05heck is going on and then I hear Cory
23:08yelling okay okay I'll tell you I'm like
23:12Oh shucks I don't you know like Cory you
23:17got a you Cory if you ever get a chance
23:20to talk to Cory about who Cory was back
23:22then Cory was the type of guy that if
23:26you was going somewhere you'd be like yo
23:28Cory come with me to watch my back cuz
23:30Cory was that dude he was your ace in
23:32the hole he'd watch it back you know so
23:34for me to hear Cory yelling in the next
23:36room like that I'm freaking out I'm
23:39scared to death I'm like yo what the
23:41heck is this they tiptoe back into the
23:46room that I'm in and they look at me and
23:49then they say you're next so by this
23:53point I'm like I don't know what I don't
23:57know what's going on I don't know what
23:58I'm gonna tell these people man my mom
24:01don't even know I'm here because in my
24:02mind I'm like i'ma tell I was going to
24:04the precinct to tell him what I saw and
24:07I was gonna be home before my mom got
24:08back in the meanwhile they had already
24:11took I don't know if they took took
24:13Kevin and Cory back to the scene of the
24:15crime already but sometimes during that
24:17particular night they took them back to
24:19the scene of the crime mind you we
24:21didn't have any evidence of any kind of
24:23violence that we had done on our clothes
24:27they tell Cory hey man your sneakers
24:31untied so Cory you know he bends down to
24:33tie a shoe one of the other officers
24:36bumps Cory and tries to make him fall
24:39into the scene of the crime so that he
24:42can have some evidence on him that
24:44wasn't previously there mm-hmm this
24:46whole thing was so manufactured this is
24:50something that they wanted us to be
24:51guilty of and I mean the craziest part
24:53about this story too is as these
24:55seasoned detectives were interrogating
24:57us they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt
25:00that the stories that they were getting
25:02from everybody wasn't stories that was
25:05matching so hearing I mean we're talking
25:08about guys who've been on the job for
25:0920-plus years this is the elite of the
25:12elite these are the guys who you call in
25:14to solve crimes and they're seeing
25:16already that none of these stories of
25:18magic but they still went ahead with it
25:20they still paint this crime on us okay
25:24so you ended up admitting to the crime
25:27as well I didn't I didn't end up
25:31admitting to the crime no they did it
25:33they this is this is the the most
25:35interesting story they're most
25:36interesting part about this whole story
25:38is that after they finished
25:41interrogating Cory and they came back
25:42and interrogated me again at one point I
25:45think one of I think they Elizabeth
25:47lettera or Linda feresten may have
25:50called one of the officers out of the
25:52room whispered something to him and then
25:54he looks at me and says how old are you
25:57and I said I'm 15 he said how come you
26:02didn't tell me that Shi T in the first
26:04place and then threw his notes across
26:06the room now mama and I'm like what does
26:09that mean
26:10they made a false assumption in thinking
26:12because of my height that I was older
26:14than our aunt then I actually was you
26:17know two weeks later the detective that
26:21interrogated me wrote down a so-called
26:25statement that he said I made and I gave
26:28to him in the DA's office
26:30now he write he writes this down in the
26:33DA's office under her guidance you see
26:38them saying my signature is not on it
26:41I'm not on videotape none of that stuff
26:43Yeah right because you're the only one
26:47that didn't have a signed statement
26:47right Yeah right and I guess your mother
26:50interrupted the interrogation at one
26:51point this is from what I understand she
26:53came and lo and behold my mom actually
26:55found out that I was at the priests and
26:57and she came there and she told them
26:58look you don't have my consent to talk
26:59to my son yeah you know and I always
27:02tell people to like one of the most
27:03interesting things about this is that we
27:04have to understand that even even
27:07sometimes when parents are in the room
27:09that doesn't necessarily mean that the
27:11parent is savvy enough to know that this
27:14is something this is a road that they
27:15shouldn't be going down there should be
27:18in our case in all cases afterwards
27:20there should be an advocate that comes
27:22in to be an intermediary between us our
27:25parents and the officers to make sure
27:28that we're giving our fair doing our
27:30fair rights because at the end who loses
27:33the biggest losers in the game aren't
27:36the police departments of the world
27:37isn't the DA's office isn't the judges
27:39isn't the mayor the biggest losers are
27:42the taxpayers because here 14 years
27:45later well 13 years later the truth came
27:47out about our case it took another what
27:4912 years for our case to be settled with
27:53taxpayers dollars now that's that's
27:57truly unfortunate that money should have
27:59came from the officers pension fund you
28:02know the judges the judges Retirement
28:04Fund or something like that so both you
28:07guys go through this interrogation
28:09process Raymond has a written statement
28:12you do not have a written statement but
28:15both of you gets charged for this rape
28:18and assault oh yeah now at this point
28:23there's sort of just like a frenzy
28:27happening in New York with the public
28:30really upset over this happening you
28:32know and considering that this is a
28:36white woman and a group of black kids
28:39there's almost like an Emmett Till kind
28:42of comparison going on at this point oh
28:45yeah
28:45yeah
28:47now Trump ends up kind of starting the
28:52fire in the media oh yeah he was he was
28:55definitely the firestarter I mean okay
28:57you know he was truck - well he did it
28:59in the most grandest and most
29:01provocative way you know paying for ad
29:04space in New York City's newspapers
29:06calling really for the reinstatement of
29:08the death penalty for our case now mind
29:11you as things progressed our names phone
29:13numbers and addresses were also
29:15published in the newspapers yeah so
29:16people started to you know call us any
29:18time of the day and night people wrote
29:20us nasty letters telling us that they
29:22was gonna kill us in our families you
29:24know all of that stuff was going on and
29:25one one our media personality I believe
29:28he was mentioned in the in the film the
29:30Central Park five a guy named Pat
29:32Buchanan he wrote what would surmise to
29:35be that you know what let's take the
29:36eldest one Corey wise and hang him from
29:39a tree in Central Park and then let's
29:41take the others and horsewhip them you
29:43know so if you if you think about the
29:44whole first of all the language that was
29:46being used the idea and the indication
29:48of what they were really trying to drum
29:50up and always say this because if we
29:52fast forward to today the supporters who
29:57came out in support of Donald Trump the
29:59people who really thought and think the
30:03way that they thought in terms of the
30:04viciousness and the anger that they had
30:06that so-called black people and people
30:08of color were beginning to advance you
30:10know when you look at the hatred that
30:13came out of the woodwork the people who
30:15uncovered themselves and said hey I'm
30:18here and I'll beat up people in in in
30:20rallies and I'll I'll do anything and
30:22everything to make sure that president
30:25that the president becomes Donald Trump
30:27you know in terms of his whole candidacy
30:29if we if we were able to look into the
30:31future at the future president of these
30:33United States Donald Trump nobody ever
30:36thought in a million years that Donald
30:37Trump will be here but what I'm what I'm
30:41more afraid of is not Donald Trump
30:45himself but the people who came out in
30:47support of Donald Trump I believe that
30:49this same element was present back in
30:521989 this same element was present back
30:56in the Emmett Till case the same element
30:58was present back in a scottsboro boys
31:00case
31:01and I think it was it's more relevant to
31:03the Central Park five case and the
31:05Central Park jogger case because here we
31:08had a situation where our phone numbers
31:10names and addresses of being published
31:11in New York City's newspapers Donald
31:13Trump takes out the full-page ad in four
31:16of New York City's major newspapers
31:17calling for the reinstatement of the
31:19death penalty and people begin to call
31:21us people begin to threaten us people
31:23begin to tell us that we were going to
31:25die now imagine if they had their way
31:27they had our dress they could have come
31:30into our homes hung us with drugged us
31:33from our homes and hung us from the
31:35trees in Central Park
31:36and we would have this story about the
31:39truth and it's what happened and
31:40everything would have never come out in
31:43the way that it came out we'd have been
31:45ghosts yeah yeah so do you guys go to
31:50trial it's a separate trial with you too
31:52or no no both of us went to travel
31:53together it was me okay
31:55ray and Antron they split it they split
31:57it in half it was really yeah it used to
31:59be the Central Park seven one guy gets
32:01off in a way it was more than that it
32:04was more it was it was yet been Central
32:06Park yes indeed yes indeed but one guy
32:09you know he he he gets out and then it
32:12was it was left down of six people
32:16Raymond
32:17Kevin Antron Corey Kevin Stephen Minster
32:23yeah yeah
32:24and so they split it in half
32:27me and tronic andwe went first yeah and
32:31we have your trial
32:33yeah yeah okay you guys have your trial
32:36you guys offered a plea deal before the
32:38trial or know we weren't offered a plea
32:40deal what happened was the lawyers came
32:42in during trial and um they offered us a
32:45plea deal and at that time I had about
32:47at about I had about 15 months in maybe
32:50a little less um so I benefited from the
32:53plea deal and they were saying that they
32:55was gonna try to get us a two to six
32:57year prison sentence um but we all had
33:00to agree to do it and so you know Yussef
33:04was the first one I said no and we was
33:06like well you should say no we all said
33:08no so we didn't accept a plea deal and
33:10then even after we blew trial
33:14they offered me another deal to testify
33:15against Steven Lopez who became the
33:17third trial that you don't hear about
33:19yeah and they offered me you know they
33:23said if I testified against him they'll
33:24drop all my charges and let me go and I
33:27was like hell no let Steve win and let
33:29him let him go home yeah you know but he
33:32wanted top or not yeah he got scared
33:34because like when you know the thing
33:35about it too is that when we lost they
33:38were already doing a poll because they
33:39were trying us as adults yeah they said
33:43you know what we're gonna try to use
33:44these young people the the criminals our
33:46company becoming younger and younger and
33:48this was the beginning of lowering the
33:50age this whole campaign that people are
33:52fighting against right now to raise the
33:53age back up this was the beginning of
33:55lowering the age where they were looking
33:57at people and saying criminal criminal
33:59activity is becoming is being done by
34:03people of younger and younger ages so we
34:05need to charge these youngsters as
34:07adults and so they were taking polls and
34:09saying well based on the charges that we
34:12had been convicted on each charge
34:15carried a minimum nor maximum of three
34:19and a third to ten years so I know for
34:21like I think I got charged with maybe
34:23two major major charges so that meant
34:26that had things going down the way that
34:28they wanted to go down I would have been
34:30given six and 2/3 to 20 years for this
34:35crime that I didn't commit so at that
34:37point we lose the next trial is
34:40beginning I think and then Steve says yo
34:42man I can't do that time like that I'm
34:45not I'm not trying to do that you know
34:47what let me let me just cop to something
34:49that I didn't do just so that I can get
34:52the heck up out of this situation okay
34:55so you guys both blow trials yeah how
34:58many years do each of you get we hear
35:00five to ten years yeah okay so the same
35:03the same sense for both you yeah
35:05same sense because nice like like you
35:07sustained it we were charged as adults
35:09but we were senses as juveniles so you
35:11know how California has a three strike
35:12law New York doesn't have that but they
35:15do have what's called the predicate and
35:17the persistent and so that set us up for
35:20our first felony if we got another one
35:22that we became a predicate felon and if
35:24you got your turn you became a
35:25persistent so we got our first
35:28at the age of 14 or 15 years old yeah
35:31okay yeah when you heard the judge give
35:35you the sentences how did you guys feel
35:37um it was it was unbelievable like here
35:41we were like we was in you know when
35:44this case happened they were about 400
35:46articles written on us within the first
35:47two weeks of this case dissecting our
35:49lives that's 14 and 15 year old kids
35:51right and everybody was quick to judge
35:55these guys as guilty they did it
35:57you know castrated them hang them put
35:59them under the prison system
36:01let the do is in jail rape them and kill
36:03them yeah you know and so now as the
36:06case is going along and it takes about
36:08almost a year and a half to get to trial
36:10right
36:11you know when the DNA evidence comes
36:13back because these guys the police
36:15department took our handprints right
36:17they took fingerprints and prints alive
36:20footprints saliva hair samples blood
36:22samples they took all of our clothes and
36:24they test them against the samples that
36:27they have from the crime scene and none
36:29of it matches so now we go okay none of
36:32these stuff matches and we thinkin now
36:33that people were opening eyes and say
36:35wait a minute
36:36something's wrong here and a very a very
36:39small percentage day while majority said
36:42nah they said they did it they guilty
36:44yeah okay now now Trisha Trisha Emily is
36:47that how you present it yeah just a
36:49mommy
36:49Trisha Meili she ends up surviving the
36:53attack yes this also as I'm looking
36:55through now it also included sodomy and
36:57yeah everything we were given 13 charges
37:01originally and when we blew on we blew
37:04on all of them except for a murder
37:06charge and then the regions got census
37:08on the two charges which was rape and
37:10robbery yeah okay so she actually comes
37:13into the courtroom and testifies yeah
37:17but what she was so badly traumatized if
37:21she doesn't remember what happened yeah
37:22he said you don't see the injuries now
37:23she suffered she can't remember the
37:25events of that night she had total
37:28amnesia yeah so basically she just
37:30really came in to testify based on what
37:33she was doing for recovery and just for
37:35the jury can sympathize with her yeah
37:39and then look at us because also we had
37:41people in the courtroom who were drawing
37:43us everyday and they will join us
37:45looking like animals so this is a visual
37:48that you get on TV on the 6 o'clock news
37:50when you sitting there watching dinner
37:51and they talk about our case and we were
37:53in there looking like a little monsters
37:55yeah you guys both go to prison
37:57uh-huh how many years do each of you end
38:00up serving six six years eight months
38:02almost seven years both of you yeah yeah
38:06okay but you guys are going into prison
38:10as rapists know exactly and and you guys
38:16are well I mean you're you know use if
38:18you're you're kind of big but you know
38:20Raymond you're relatively small at this
38:21point you know I was about this skinny
38:26right here okay you just solid skinny
38:30yeah but but you guys go into the prison
38:33system as rapists which is is not is not
38:39respected by at all there's no us at all
38:42you know especially something as
38:43high-profile as this yeah so you know
38:48for example I imagine there's a high
38:49level of danger from the Darien's and
38:51stuff like that once you're in there
38:52danger from everything from everybody
38:54even your own time yeah
38:56your own kind of looking at you like
38:57you're not one of us that's the worst
38:59you know people people who are there for
39:02robbery
39:02that's a badge of honor I robbed
39:04somebody you there for rape that's the
39:07worst crime you can go to prison for the
39:09only crime there Trump's rape is child
39:11molestation that's right and every every
39:13every every prison that we went to every
39:17poll that was taken
39:19people were like we will take care of
39:21them yeah for the Society yeah we will
39:25get rid of them for you yeah we're happy
39:27to do it yeah you know best place for a
39:30criminal to go is to be in the prison
39:32industrial complex so that other more
39:35heinous crimes when those folks come in
39:37those inmates get them you know mm-hmm
39:41okay now you guys end up getting
39:47released years later okay now at what
39:53point
39:55one of you meets Matias Reyes
39:58oh so that's that's that's Cory why so
40:01he wants me okay
40:02a cook okay so what are the Central Park
40:04five meats Matias Reyes yeah now Matias
40:08Reyes was someone that was raping women
40:13in New York the east side rapist you
40:16know but you saw him ended up being
40:17killed
40:17yeah so what exactly happens between
40:24Cory and Matias Reyes well Cory what
40:27happens is that they wanna meet and they
40:29was both on Rikers Island at the same
40:31time back in 1989 and what people don't
40:34know that they had a fight over the TV
40:35right so you fast-forward 13 years later
40:39Cory's in Auburn Correctional Facility
40:41and he's walking the yard what we call
40:43spending the yard in prison and RAIR
40:46sees them and Reyes says he recognizes
40:49him he goes wait a minute that's Cory he
40:51still locked up all these years and at
40:54this time he sees Cory Cory you know he
40:56has bad feet you know he's you know he
40:59just looks like he's having a hard time
41:00and so he reaches out he goes over he
41:03has a conversation with Cory but he
41:04never tells Cory that he's the one who
41:06committed the crime he just had a
41:08genuine conversation back from 1989 and
41:11he brings up the fight that they have
41:12and Cory tells him look man don't even
41:14worry about that that was 13 years ago
41:16like 83 none of us we both in jail yeah
41:19but he goes on to tell Cory how he has
41:21found Jesus Christ how he's living a
41:23different life now and Cory you know
41:25comforts him in that and he goes back to
41:28his cell that night and he saw some
41:29really thick and he says damn he he goes
41:31and he talks to some of his boys and he
41:34says you know there's a dude who's in
41:35him for a crime that I commit and I feel
41:37bad about it and they encouraged him to
41:40go forward now he goes now he because
41:43he's going to church every Sunday he
41:44goes down and he speaks to the chaplain
41:46and he seeks guidance from the chaplain
41:48the Chapman tells him the same thing
41:50you know yeah you need to say something
41:52about it if you committed this crime and
41:53he's in here because of you yeah and
41:55what people the misconception that
41:56people think is that this guy just told
41:58his story and that was it ya know he had
42:01the literary go through the ranks of
42:03telling everybody over and over and over
42:06again that he can
42:08this crime and then we already got to
42:10the attorney general's office and they
42:12called the DA's office they called
42:13Robert Morgenthau and they said hey you
42:15got somebody here saying he committed
42:16this crime from 13 years ago and that's
42:19how the investigation started yeah okay
42:21and Matias Reyes was he do a life in
42:23prison or did he have yeah long sentence
42:25he was seven he's a sovereign 33 and
42:27third to life yeah and and so during
42:30this investigation it's about an eight
42:32money investigation where the police is
42:34investigating the whole thing and you
42:37know the funny thing is like they don't
42:39even feel he's credible he has to prove
42:41to them that he did this crime right and
42:43so he goes in and he gives them about
42:46four cases that's unsolved and he says
42:48go back and look at those and they find
42:50him and they find out that he's the one
42:51that did it and so you know his MO was
42:54that he was alone up his Emma was also
42:57that he bound and gagged all his victims
42:59like this yeah and all the injuries were
43:01the eyes in the head the same way that
43:03they found the jock right and so when
43:06they look back and the DA office writes
43:08their report it's about a fifty two-page
43:10report by Nancy Ryan and now that report
43:13shows about how way innocent fifty two
43:16pages long you know and this guy has to
43:19prove that he committed this crime over
43:22and over again and then they took a DNA
43:24evidence and it matches yeah now by the
43:27time that he admits this you guys are
43:29already out of jail what six years or so
43:31six seven years except for me I'm still
43:34in prison
43:34yeah Bobby was still in prison and I'm
43:36still in prison yeah this was one of
43:37those situations where we had I think we
43:39had already those of us who are out we
43:42had done all of our parole time yeah and
43:44we were basically getting ready to
43:46embark on life with the with the
43:48indelible scar of having to tell and
43:50explaining people look I got convicted
43:52of this crime that I didn't commit
43:54you know but I can't prove it and it
43:57wasn't until he came forward and said
44:00that he did it and they matched his DNA
44:02evidence
44:03I mean his DNA were the evidence that
44:04they had that they knew beyond a shadow
44:06of a doubt that this guy did it yeah
44:10when you found out that Matias admitted
44:13to this and now there's an investigation
44:15clearing your names how did you guys
44:18feel about it
44:21one for me I was in prison right I was
44:24serving three and a half seven years on
44:25a drug on the drug charge
44:27um okay and and and hold on I just want
44:31to make a point here
44:32okay the the sent the dissent saying
44:34that you got for your drug charge was
44:37higher than it should be because of your
44:39previous conviction that's correct I was
44:41now I was I was a predicate felon now
44:43right right so it felt right under the
44:45you know one more and I'm a persistent
44:47so I'm full right under that um and so I
44:50was in prison at the time
44:52and I was so institutionalized by this
44:54time that I felt they just gonna make
44:57this dude the six minute and then go
44:58sweep it under the rug and that's it
45:00that's what they tried to do and that's
45:02what I try they try to say this was the
45:04guy who they've been looking for all
45:05along yeah now see the part of the story
45:07that didn't match our story which was
45:11perfect was his retelling of the crime
45:14and how he did this particular crime
45:16yeah how he he saw her he could hear
45:19that she was playing music in her ears
45:21and she didn't even know he was
45:22following her you know and then when she
45:25made that turn on one hundred and second
45:26Street traverse he said he hit her in
45:28the head with a tree branch now I always
45:31tell people that we look at TV shows and
45:33we see shows like CSI
45:36you know NCIS all of these shows all the
45:38alphabet soup of shows that that people
45:40watch you know we know that forensics is
45:44an exact science they can come into a
45:47place and they could test blood and say
45:49well this blood is drier then that blood
45:53so therefore this blood is where the Hat
45:55where something happened first and true
45:57to form when they look back at their
45:59recreation of the crime scene they knew
46:01that she had gotten hidden something
46:03happened at this particular point
46:04because they found blood there yeah and
46:06then they saw the drag this this this
46:08drag line in the grass and they knew
46:11that somebody had dragged her from the
46:13road to that area of the woods and then
46:16when they found her they couldn't find
46:19her keys and I think I liked her shoes
46:21and stuff like that wore in opposite
46:22directions
46:23this guy had beat her and he raped her
46:26beat her in the head with a brick and
46:28then it would have Rock and then tried
46:31the axe or where does she live because
46:34he wanted to go to her house so that he
46:36could rob her house and of course by
46:38this time she's she's out of it you know
46:41he throws her keys in one direction
46:43shoes in another version and he gets out
46:45of there yeah okay so he gives this
46:50testimony over and over again until the
46:52point where it starts to stick yeah
46:54there's an investigation into all this
46:57and at the end of the investigation you
47:00guys are all proven innocent
47:02yes how did that day feel oh you know
47:07for for me that was the happiest day of
47:10my life but it was the the crazy part
47:14about it is that it was so short-lived
47:18because the innocence of us got little
47:22to no attention my mother I remember she
47:24had testified at City Hall and she was
47:27talking about the case and she said you
47:28know when when they were found to be
47:30innocent you know that that tsunami of
47:33media reports that Raymond talked about
47:35that over 400 articles that were being
47:37written about us when they thought we
47:38were guilty she said that when we were
47:41found to be innocent it was a whisper
47:43that she had wondered if the rats in New
47:46York City had even heard even to this
47:50day sometimes we go around and we speak
47:51and folks are like you when you guys
47:54come home we thought y'all was still in
47:56jail I mean it's like Oh or there's a
47:59complete disconnect and folks say man oh
48:02that's a--that's a new rap group the
48:03Central Park five CP five there hit the
48:07whole history of what happened to us has
48:09been almost erased you know so did you
48:14guys ever get a chance to talk to Matias
48:15Reyes yourself no no no no any interest
48:19in doing that at all or no no no
48:21interest at all I mean this guy said oh
48:23you know he was known as the esau slash
48:25of the Eastside rapist he committed
48:27about 78 rapes that they know about on
48:29one was a murder of a pregnant woman um
48:32I mean there's nothing to talk about
48:33widow yeah yeah just a horrific
48:35individual you see given more time no
48:38given more time that's the best that's
48:40the part that's even the worst part
48:42about that's the tragedy of this story
48:43the tragedy of the Central Park jogger
48:46case is that
48:47the real perpetrator although he came
48:49forward and told the truth because of
48:52statute of limitations like in New York
48:54City is seven years if you come after
48:56seven years and tell the truth or you
48:57get found out you know because unless
49:00unless it's murder crisis murder right
49:02right well great as seven also so rape
49:04rape has a statute of limitations has a
49:06statute of limitations he was able to
49:08admit it without getting any more time
49:10but he was also he was doing life in
49:11prison so yeah it is what it is so you
49:15guys get exonerated of these charges
49:17mm-hmm I know that years later the woman
49:22who was raped wrote a book about it and
49:25came forward did you guys ever talk to
49:27her no no and that was the thing to like
49:30you know at first we didn't want to push
49:33that because of what she been through
49:35and we were sympathetic to it and she
49:36was went to a lot but as years went on
49:39we was like hold on like this is you
49:42know this is a travesty of what happened
49:44to her yeah but she never wanted to
49:46reach out to us and she would never
49:48wanted to hear our side of the story you
49:50don't say it's like you know she also
49:52became friends with several detectives
49:54and the prosecutors and so these people
49:57sitting here telling you for thirteen
49:59years that we guilty yep now Reyes comes
50:01forward they still saying we guilty the
50:03DNA matches he tells you he did it they
50:06still saying we guilty and you know
50:09uh-uh
50:10we knew that that was difficult but it
50:13got to a point that we was like but do
50:15you ever want to hit do you ever want to
50:17talk to us yeah you know our door has
50:19always been open for her to come forward
50:21or for us to meet her but she hasn't
50:23have never made an effort so it's like
50:27but the doors open though so it's not
50:29like it's not like we're you know we've
50:31always said you know what if she does I
50:32feel like that that will be the the full
50:35circle of us really healing from this
50:37whole case yeah and to be fair it's not
50:39like she got on the stand and said
50:41Raymond and used to freight me right you
50:43guys should lock him up why she just
50:45said I don't remember yeah yes not like
50:47she would she didn't contribute to your
50:49situation
50:50you'd be fair Yeah right to be fair yeah
50:52okay so you guys end up suing New York
50:56yes yes
50:58originally for 250 million yeah correct
51:02what did you guys Altima Li get 41 ok I
51:08told I was Italian yeah 40 what 41
51:11million total spread across all five
51:13people yeah yes yeah so an attorney
51:17105 and attorneys yeah the attorney yeah
51:20yeah yeah it was it was it was sprinkled
51:22based on the amount of time that we did
51:24yeah so that Cory got more money than
51:26all of us but you know four out of five
51:29got about the same amount and we all had
51:31to split that but we also had to split
51:33it with the attorneys and all that other
51:34stuff they didn't they didn't pay for
51:36the attorney fees or any of that you
51:38know which days something that they
51:39should have done they didn't they didn't
51:40give our families any money either yeah
51:43so even though they went through hell
51:45even though they were they had to lose
51:47their jobs because of the situation that
51:49happened some of them have to had to
51:50leave New York City because of the
51:52situation that happened no compensation
51:55was given as a result of that to them
51:57yeah well at the end of the day a couple
52:00million bucks each does not match up to
52:02what you guys went through yeah correct
52:04you know uh if you were to do it over
52:07I'm sure if someone told you ahead of
52:08time hey listen you guys have to go
52:10through this but you'll get a couple
52:11million bucks at the end but see that's
52:15always an unknown as well I mean at the
52:16end of the day we've always you know
52:17we've been asked that question in public
52:18before and I've always said and I know
52:20women said it too you know like you know
52:22at the end of the day if somebody told
52:24us that this is that the the possibility
52:28forget the possibility if somebody said
52:29look if you go into the park you're
52:31gonna go to jail for years would you do
52:36it now I look at who I am today I happen
52:40to be a motivational speaker we both go
52:43into high schools colleges universities
52:45and we speak to young people I mean life
52:48is life was hell but life has took such
52:52a tremendous turn towards positive it
52:54was a positive thing
52:55I mean Raymond is wearing a shirt that
52:59he this is his company park in Madison
53:01you know so I mean you know stuff like
53:02that like had what would we be the
53:04people that we are today had we not gone
53:07through the struggle have we not known
53:09the intricate details of what it's like
53:11to be in the bed
53:11the Beast maybe you know but now we come
53:16at life from a completely different
53:18angle full circle in knowing something
53:21that a lot of people don't know and a
53:22lot of people who know about it they
53:24don't want to talk about it because it's
53:26one of the most unfortunate realities to
53:28talk about having going to prison even
53:30if you didn't do the crime you know but
53:33how did we survive what did we do how do
53:35we get our lives back how are we doing
53:37such positive things today you know well
53:40after all this happened and you were
53:43exonerated and the real rapist admitted
53:48to what happened and so forth there are
53:51people that still thought you still did
53:53it
53:54oh I guess I guess there's theories that
53:57even though you know the other guy raped
54:00her
54:01you guys went in afterwards and raped
54:03her as well yeah yeah and and in fact I
54:07guess Trump felt like that you guys
54:14still did it well see you know you gotta
54:16you got to look at the facts and I
54:17always say it like this a person like
54:19Donald Trump has the financial
54:21wherewithal especially now before he had
54:24it but as the president of the United
54:27States you you you definitely got it
54:29right you can know anything and
54:32everything truth or not at any point of
54:36time so Donald Trump for him to just
54:38kind of stay on the side of wrong stay
54:40on the side of saying well you know what
54:42the police officers had so much evidence
54:44against them you know it's almost as if
54:47they're saying or he's saying that the
54:50police department is infallible
54:54people make mistakes yeah it happens all
54:57the time
54:57you know I mean you got situations where
55:00victims of horrific crimes have falsely
55:04identified people and they've come
55:07afterwards to be that person's greatest
55:09advocate to talk about the fact that
55:12witness identification is such a tricky
55:14kind of situation because when we're
55:16going through something like that
55:18we you know we're trying to put the
55:19pieces of the puzzle together but things
55:21ain't gonna match up that easily but I
55:23always talk about the fact that
55:25when you look at what I had on that
55:27night that stuff that I had that that
55:31article of clothing that I had on that
55:32night to this day has all kinds of holes
55:35in it because they went over it with a
55:38fine-tooth comb trying to find even a
55:42speck of blood just to match us to the
55:45scene of the crime
55:46and so for then not to be even a speck
55:49of blood the look the victim loses three
55:52faults of her blood there's other folks
55:54that get assaulted that night people go
55:56to prison for assaulting those other
55:58individuals these individuals who went
56:01to prison were picked out of lineups the
56:03the the assailant knew exactly who
56:07assaulted them those folks went to jail
56:09none of those folks became known as
56:11essential par 5 so for that for that for
56:15that narrative to still be out there
56:16well these guys gotta be guilty of
56:20something you're right we're guilty of
56:23the color of our skin I mean that's
56:26that's that's it now at any point did
56:29you guys go out of your way to confront
56:31the detectives the judge the DA any of
56:36the people involved in putting you guys
56:37in prison
56:38well we didn't confront them directly
56:40what we did was that we we fought back
56:43through talking yeah telling our story
56:46through social media was a big help for
56:48us um I mean we just we just uncovered
56:52the facts we uncovered the truth you
56:54know we went through this civil suit
56:56took about 11 years to get done and in
57:00that 11 years we had close to 100
57:02depositions now a lot of that stuff is
57:05marked confidential it will be released
57:07at some time in the future and people
57:09will actually get to see those who say
57:12that we still guilty those are ones
57:14that's invested from 1989 and they can't
57:17let it go the Donald Trump's Delinda
57:19fastings the letterers but when you get
57:22a hold of these depositions and you
57:23start to see the line of questioning
57:25they have been put under and then you
57:27start to see their whole case just
57:29falling apart like and we get it we get
57:31a chance to sit in those depositions
57:32yeah you know even Commissioner at the
57:35time our Ray Kelly Wright who was
57:38the Commissioner in 1989 buddy's
57:40Commissioner now and in his deposition
57:43we uncovered so many facts we uncovered
57:45emails between him and Robert Morgenthau
57:48off when he's actually trying to take
57:50the case and Robert Morgenthau for
57:52telling him no yeah dirty I don't trust
57:55y'all yeah and so this was the thing
57:58like you know whenever a person gets
58:00exonerated and they filed a lawsuit it
58:04goes through the court of claims we were
58:06the first case that filed through the
58:09federal courts and the reason why we
58:11filed in federal court is because you
58:12get more access to more documents right
58:15and the court of claims they can they
58:17can you know most likely tell you what
58:19they can give you what they can't give
58:20you when you go through the feds Fed
58:22says you got to give up everything yeah
58:23and we uncovered so much dirt I mean we
58:26caught police officers who were
58:27corrupted the officer in my case woman
58:30named detective Arroyo he got caught in
58:32a sting in Washington Heights when they
58:34found his dead guy and in the trunk of
58:36the car $30,000 and they split it the
58:38rookie cop turns him in right another
58:41cop who we found who was in Florida yeah
58:44of who he came and testified he was
58:46retired decorated officer 20 years on
58:48the force found out that he had a
58:50conspiracy case in Florida because he
58:52was hired muscle for the mob right then
58:55we get the last one who's a Mike Sheehan
58:57who went on to be in movies he went on
59:00to be a reporter for the it for
59:03different news stations this guy was
59:05under investigation by the feds because
59:08he would go clock in the work and he
59:10would go hang out at his sister's bar
59:12right he had numerous DWIs on his jacket
59:15so there was under investigation for
59:17stealing company time and his thing was
59:21that one day he's driving drunk under
59:22the influence and he hits a police horse
59:25now none of these guys get reprimanded
59:28right because they all came off this big
59:30case yeah
59:31so they get foster retire and go live in
59:34Florida and all this stuff gets
59:36uncovered in these depositions and
59:39that's the beauty of filing on a federal
59:41level and we was the first case that did
59:43that yeah right the the blue wall of
59:46silence oh yeah blue Anza Javier
59:49right well it's a it's a hell of a story
59:53man yeah you know Raymond Yusuf I'm
59:56really really sorry that you guys had to
59:59go through this and I think that this
1:00:01really details the holes in the legal
1:00:05system and what could happen when you
1:00:11know you think you're doing the right
1:00:13thing and you're just going along with
1:00:14what the cops are telling you and so
1:00:16forth you know when you look at what's
1:00:18happening in America today do you think
1:00:21it's much different than what you guys
1:00:22went through you know I think the only
1:00:24thing that's that's different is the
1:00:26fact that we have video cameras showing
1:00:28the atrocities that go on yeah you know
1:00:30we all knew cases where people got beat
1:00:32up by the cops never made it to the
1:00:33precinct
1:00:34people got shot by cops you know warrant
1:00:36there aren't here to tell the story of
1:00:38that you know but then when you see it
1:00:40on camera you know I mean folks whose
1:00:43last words I can't breathe you know
1:00:46folks who's who you know you tell them
1:00:49can I see a license and registration and
1:00:50you go back to your vehicle to give them
1:00:52the license and registration and you get
1:00:54shot down in the process you know even
1:00:56just this most recent case where you
1:00:58know a man was walking back to his
1:01:01vehicle and and the woman says she
1:01:03feared for her life you know and so she
1:01:05shot him to death you know we you know
1:01:08it's not about it's not white folks that
1:01:10are getting shot down but it's black and
1:01:11brown folks that are getting shot down
1:01:12you know the old law majority of people
1:01:15that are in prison all black and brown
1:01:17you know and when we look at what
1:01:19brilliant filmmakers like Ava Duvernay
1:01:22has given us you know in in this film
1:01:24called the 13th you know what she talks
1:01:26about the 13th amendment and how you
1:01:28know in this amendment you clearly see
1:01:30that they can turn you back into a slave
1:01:33for the punishment of a crime and always
1:01:36say that these words the words that are
1:01:38being used are key words and I think his
1:01:39key words to people of color because the
1:01:41only people who read that and that were
1:01:44vibrates on a different level or people
1:01:47whose ancestors have been enslaved so
1:01:49they're telling you right there in the
1:01:51documents of these founding documents of
1:01:53this country that they can turn you back
1:01:55into a state which they quote unquote
1:01:58abolished but it's still right there
1:02:01you know and
1:02:03we look at what's going on today here we
1:02:04privatizing prisons we're trying to make
1:02:06sure that the prisons are some of these
1:02:08prisons are on the stock market some of
1:02:10the prisons are using some of the the
1:02:12businesses are using prison labor to put
1:02:15products in stores you know get in
1:02:19they're paying the prisoners pennies on
1:02:21the dollar I mean my greatest pay when I
1:02:22was in prison was 50 cents an hour and I
1:02:25was in the top industry I was in the
1:02:27garment industry you know some mean
1:02:29stuff like that when you think about the
1:02:30whole dynamics that go on you know I
1:02:32always say that this isn't by chance
1:02:35this is something that's been by design
1:02:38unfortunately the big difference that
1:02:40happened is that now the bleakness of it
1:02:44all has been institutionalized so people
1:02:46can now it's like you've got to prove it
1:02:48you know somebody peeing on you and
1:02:49they're telling you it's raining you
1:02:51know you're like nah this is come on
1:02:52come on now I got to pull out my own
1:02:54camera and show you on your show your
1:02:55own self that you don't pulled it out
1:02:57and try to pee on me
1:02:58you know I mean it's crazy but it's
1:03:00those types of things that even in a
1:03:02court of law aren't even being upheld we
1:03:06got clear and the evidence is right
1:03:09there and people are still getting a
1:03:12slap on the wrist we're still being
1:03:15we're still the ones that are being shot
1:03:16down had they done to us I said before
1:03:19had they done to us what they did to
1:03:20Emmett Till and we just found out
1:03:22recently that the whole story of Emmett
1:03:25Till was a story that we found that was
1:03:28completely fabricated right the woman
1:03:30came forward and said that it never even
1:03:32happened
1:03:32you know whistling or whatever yeah boy
1:03:35but even that even that is an atrocity
1:03:38but if you look back at the if you look
1:03:41back at the the video footage from the
1:03:45trial in Emmett Till case I remember I
1:03:49remember seeing this with a friend and I
1:03:51said wow this is crazy because they were
1:03:54interviewing some of the jurors they
1:03:57said well tell us about the process that
1:03:59you went through and what happened in
1:04:01this whole case and the juror said well
1:04:04we knew we were going to vote innocent
1:04:06to the guys who KITT killed Emmett Till
1:04:08but we didn't want to come back too
1:04:10quick with a verdict of not guilty so we
1:04:14had to take a soda pop break
1:04:16just to make sure that we didn't come
1:04:18back too quick with a verdict of not
1:04:19guilty
1:04:20hmm now that's a--that's on for that
1:04:22said that's really that's a that's a
1:04:25travesty all around in the words of
1:04:28David Dinkins that's a that's a damn
1:04:30shame
1:04:30yes yeah yeah well Raymond and Yusef I
1:04:34really appreciate you sharing your story
1:04:35I think this is something that not a lot
1:04:38of not enough of our viewers really know
1:04:40about cuz like I said I think that the
1:04:42initial trial had a huge spotlight on it
1:04:45and the exoneration did not yeah so
1:04:48hopefully this is another step and kind
1:04:51of showing the underbelly of what
1:04:52happened in New York and hopefully this
1:04:55will happen less and less in the future
1:04:56yes I'm Dean that's one of the things
1:04:57that we we complete we fight for all the
1:05:00time you know trying to make sure that
1:05:02there's never begun there's never again
1:05:04gonna be another Central Park fire and
1:05:06even though we're out there talking
1:05:07about it one of the things that we do
1:05:09like I said before in terms of going
1:05:10into the schools and going into
1:05:11university is making sure that these
1:05:13this next generation of people who are
1:05:15going to be the lawgivers and and and
1:05:17law providers even if you're gonna be an
1:05:19officer of the law you know you being a
1:05:22sworn citizen to protect and serve is a
1:05:26tremendous job and opportunity because
1:05:28if you do that if you do that you will
1:05:32be the best officer hands down but too
1:05:36few of them are showing their heads a
1:05:39lot of the bad apples are in the bunch
1:05:41spoiling the whole thing I agree I agree
1:05:45Raven Yousef and best of luck to both of
1:05:48you hey well thank you thank you for
1:05:50doing this as well man we appreciate you

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