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"Cash is king. And I truly believe in that." - Seppo Parvi, CFO Bekaert — Transcript

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0:01Look, there's a gap and it's growing. AI
0:05is moving fast. [music] Expectations are
0:07moving right along with it. We close the
0:10gap and make AI work for your [music]
0:12business, driving real growth. We're IO,
0:15your AI native partner [music] in
0:17design, marketing, and technology.
0:22[music]
0:24Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a new
0:26episode of the SEO podcast. [music]
0:27Today I am pleased to welcome Seo Parvi,
0:31CFO of Bakeart. [music] Bakeart is one
0:33of Belgium's most international
0:35industrial companies. A company with a
0:37long history, a global footprint and
0:40[music] activities that are deeply
0:42connected to industry, infrastructure,
0:45mobility, energy [music] and advanced
0:47materials. And that makes the role of a
0:50CFO particularly interesting. Today I
0:53want to understand how Sepo looks at
0:55business portfolio restructuring and how
0:58he balances ambition with discipline
1:00[music] and how a CEO creates clarity
1:02when markets, geopolitics and supply
1:05chains [music] are constantly shifting.
1:13>> Welcome to the Civil Podcast. I'm very
1:15happy to have you here in our studios in
1:16Anor. But I always start with the same
1:18question. Who is Sebu? What's your
1:20story?
1:21>> Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.
1:23>> Thank you for coming.
1:24>> Yeah. Well, I'm married first of all and
1:27I have two adult children from my
1:29previous marriage. My my son,
1:32>> he works and lives in London in a
1:34technology company and my daughter works
1:36as a doctor in a proud father in
1:38Finland. Absolutely. And I I moved to
1:40Belgium two years ago
1:42>> and uh in addition to my native Finland
1:45before moving here, I have also worked
1:46two years in Poland, six years in
1:48Turkey. So, so having some international
1:51experience.
1:52>> Mhm.
1:53>> And uh not only in finance but I okay I
1:56started my career in treasury then
1:58pretty soon moved to controlling
2:00>> but also been then working in sourcing
2:02general management operations and past
2:0520 years in CFO roles in in different
2:08companies in in different public
2:10companies and I think consequently and
2:12and as a coincident that was actually a
2:14good career path to become a CFO.
2:17>> Okay. And why why why was it coincident
2:19for you?
2:20>> Well, I I must say maybe it sounds
2:22strange but I I had never really planned
2:24my career.
2:25>> Okay.
2:25>> But I have sort of jumped on
2:27opportunities
2:28>> and and I think in in in one of my
2:30companies, packaging company Hamaki in
2:32Finland, uh there was a lot of
2:34opportunities if you're ready to jump to
2:36unknown. So you were offered
2:38opportunities and I worked there 13
2:40years in various roles, various
2:41countries. And I think I owe
2:44>> a lot to
2:46that that I'm where I am today.
2:48>> Fantastic. Can you bring us a bit back
2:51to the big story? What is the business
2:53about for our audience to understand?
2:56>> Yeah. Well, Becker is a manufacturing
2:58company originally established back in
3:001880. So what 45 years old company? So
3:04quite quite a long history behind us.
3:06>> Mhm. and and today we are in in in
3:10advanced materials business making
3:12engineered products and offering
3:14solutions to our customers.
3:16>> Mhm.
3:17>> And and we are in various segments which
3:19is of course a challenge if if you think
3:20about the complexity of the business and
3:23business portfolio. You know we are in
3:25in in tire reinforcement, cement
3:28concrete reinforcement, steel wire
3:30solutions, lifting and mooring. Those
3:33are sort of the biggest main markets.
3:34But then there are a number of smaller
3:36segments. So that is of course one one
3:38challenge when you look at your
3:40portfolio that a lot of small and and
3:41and and bigger businesses and on top of
3:45that we are also very international like
3:46you said you know we are on on on on all
3:50the major continents major presence
3:52obviously in Europe but also in in in in
3:55Asia mainly China but also also in
3:57Vietnam, Indonesia just to mention
3:59couple as well as in in in North America
4:02and Latin America. And do you have uh
4:05your I'm sure your your global footprint
4:07is clear but do you have both production
4:09and sales activities everywhere or do
4:12you focus your production activities on
4:14in one place and sell in the other
4:16places or is it a good mix?
4:18>> No no we we we are very localized. Okay.
4:20So, so actually that is a a benefit in
4:22the today's geopolitical situation
4:24having production
4:25>> localized to different continents is
4:28actually a competitive advantage if you
4:29think about the ts or logistics issues
4:32which has been repeating issue and topic
4:35past years you could say of ever since
4:37co
4:38uh we we had in the in the in the world.
4:41>> Okay. Why is your business so complex?
4:45I think complexity comes from product
4:47portfolio very much being in different
4:50segments different products being in
4:52different countries you know that that
4:54brings into into into into the game
4:57geopolitics that's been a very hot topic
4:59you look at the past years
5:01>> tariffs when it comes to technology
5:03requirement different type of customers
5:06cultures and and and and and I think
5:08it's very much about the business
5:10portfolio at the end of the day because
5:13being a 4 billion euro company But being
5:15in quite many businesses, you you your
5:17portal is quite fragmented. Yes.
5:19>> And you need to sort of focus on many
5:22different things when you manage the
5:23business. And I think that's that's one
5:24of the main main drivers.
5:26>> Okay. Shifting gears a bit towards the
5:29main reason I wanted to have this
5:30conversation with you Seo. When you
5:32became CFO two years ago, what were the
5:35main portfolio
5:37um discussions that you found on your
5:40agenda? Well, I think first of all it
5:42was exactly the portfolio restructuring
5:46or or change that attracted me to join
5:48Peckard. Okay.
5:49>> Because that's that's something I I
5:51>> you knew it up front.
5:52>> I knew. Yes. That was I think one one of
5:54the key reasons for for the recruitment
5:56of the of the new CFO and I have some
5:59experience of that in the past. And if
6:01you look at the portal, it's of course
6:02very much about future proof or proven
6:06portfolio. Where [clears throat] where
6:07are the opportunities for future growth?
6:09Because in in every company you if you
6:11look at the portfolio you have have have
6:14growth platforms that you can build on.
6:16You have mature businesses
6:18>> and then you have sort of businesses
6:20that are
6:21>> making good profits nice development but
6:24then you need to balance between those
6:26sort of growth platforms where you need
6:27to need the cash to invest and grow and
6:30then you have mature businesses that you
6:32can milk.
6:33>> Yeah. Exactly.
6:34>> So it's a way find the right balance
6:35there.
6:36>> Yeah. You referred a while ago to the
6:39experience that you had and one of the
6:40reasons why you obviously chose for
6:42Baker. Can you elaborate a bit on that
6:45experience regarding portfolio
6:47restructuring that you had in the past?
6:48>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have been in paper
6:52and pul paper forest industry in Finland
6:54[clears throat] which is of course one
6:55of the top main main industries in
6:57Finland and there of course if you look
6:59at the Finnish and global forest
7:01industry it has been through quite a
7:03change. If you got the digitalization,
7:05demand for paper, moving from paper to
7:09>> uh board manufacturing more to the
7:11packaging focused focused business
7:13portfolio. And that means that you you
7:15have been through restructuring of the
7:17balance sheet. You have been through
7:18restructuring of the business portfolio,
7:21refocusing the business, divesting
7:23certain businesses,
7:24>> doing acquisitions in other business and
7:26investing at the same time sort of into
7:29[clears throat] long-term sustainable
7:30business. And also in in one of my
7:33previous companies also a bit similar
7:35situation as behind Pekka that there are
7:36some legacy businesses and there are
7:39growth businesses and you need to find a
7:41balance and and sort of find the future
7:44>> future platform for the company.
7:47>> Yeah. What do you find interesting going
7:49through that process? I can imagine some
7:52CFOs don't want to go through that
7:53process because there is a lot going on
7:55and the stakes are extremely high. What
7:58makes this attractive for you as a CFO
8:00to go through this process again?
8:02>> Well, well, I think the role of CFO
8:05today, it's it's not like it it's not
8:08being an accountant.
8:09>> No,
8:09>> it's it's actually to to to be partner
8:12for the CEO, be be partner to the board,
8:15help to make strategic decisions and I I
8:18think when it comes to business for
8:19restructuring,
8:21>> strategic change, the direction of the
8:23company that that makes me tick
8:25>> that's what I like. Of course, you need
8:27to take care of the basics. Of course,
8:28>> you know, there are things that if you
8:29don't do properly, you get fired, right?
8:31Accounting, [clears throat] controlling,
8:32[laughter] but then if you want to be
8:34successful, then it's about business
8:35portfolio restructuring and future
8:37direction of the of the company.
8:39>> Okay, we're going to take a short break
8:41and when we come back, I would like to
8:42know a bit more about portfolio. Thank
8:44you. Being a CFO can be lonely, not
8:48because you're alone, because the
8:50decisions you face are often complex,
8:53sensitive, and difficult to discuss
8:55openly.
8:57That is why we created the CFO network,
9:00a trusted community for CFOs and finance
9:03leaders who want to meet the right
9:04people, exchange ideas, ask sharper
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9:10Not more noise, just a better room. For
9:14CFOs and finance leaders who want to
9:16grow, connect, and lead with confidence.
9:20Join the CIO network for free at co
9:22studios.be.
9:28Welcome back. Today in the CO podcast,
9:31I'm speaking with Seo Parvi, CFO of
9:33Bakeart. Let's dig a bit deeper a bit
9:36when it comes to um business portfolio
9:38restructuring. where where do you start
9:41actually what do you do first
9:43>> I think first of all you I I for me key
9:46is always cash flow you know there
9:48there's a saying cash is king and I I
9:50truly believe in that and if you look at
9:52the business portfolio it's it's very
9:54much about I need to have businesses
9:55where you make
9:57>> profitability and where you have cash
9:59and cash flow and that's I think one of
10:01the key things and always in your
10:02portfolio you have businesses that are
10:05performing better than others
10:07>> and and there of course when when you
10:09are performing well then the key
10:10question is that how long it continues
10:13what is the is it sustainable because
10:15sometimes also you need to make
10:16decisions and divest something that's
10:18making good money today
10:20>> before it's too late
10:21>> yes
10:22>> and then when it comes to business that
10:23are bleeding the first thing is of
10:25course always that can you fix it and
10:27and then if if you you you are not
10:29confident that you can fix it then it's
10:31better to divest before it's too late
10:33>> and and and but of course first thing
10:35always see how to restructure it
10:37>> but I think one of The key things is is
10:40is that and also to keep in mind that
10:41when you go to restructuring that and
10:44especially if you want to acquire
10:45something that if your current business
10:47is struggling and and you are not having
10:49a good cash for it's not really the
10:51right time okay
10:52>> to go for major acquisitions because you
10:54need to first clean your own
10:55>> back you need to clean your own back.
10:57>> Yeah. and be ready and then you can
10:58focus on acquisitions and and acquiring
11:01companies. But also strategic you need
11:03to be clear on your direction because
11:05it's easy when you go especially into
11:07business portfolio restructuring and
11:09think about the growth opportunities
11:11that there are not always a lot of
11:13opportunities and there are bankers
11:14investment bankers who bring you great
11:16[snorts] ideas. So you need to be very
11:18focused and and always remind yourself
11:20that what is my strategic is this
11:22fitting to my strategic direction and be
11:25very selective on on on where you go.
11:29>> If you look at this process and I'll we
11:32will jump right into the I'll call it
11:35the sequencing
11:36>> uh of the deal making. what kind of
11:39relationship do you need to develop with
11:41the CEO and the other board members to
11:43be able to run this process as a as a
11:46sevil in a very very effective way?
11:49Yeah, I think first of all like I said
11:51said earlier strategic direction is to
11:53be clear
11:54>> and and one one important role that CFO
11:58has is the balance sheet management. M
12:00>> you need to manage your leverage and
12:02that's where the sequencing comes into
12:05question
12:05>> because of course in the perfect world
12:07you first divest and you make
12:09acquisitions afterwards but you know
12:11word is never sell it's not not perfect
12:14>> so so so first of all you need to be
12:16prepared you need to scan the market you
12:19need to know your target so that you are
12:21ready to make a move when they become
12:23available yeah and and it's not in our
12:25hands but what you can control is that
12:27you are ready to move so you do your
12:29homework work but also that you have
12:31strong balance sheet.
12:32>> Yeah.
12:33>> Because strong balance sheet good
12:34liquidity gives you opportunities to
12:36jump on the on the on the opportunities
12:39when they come.
12:40>> Yes.
12:40>> Otherwise you might be too late if you
12:42then start to think about can I fund
12:43with this? How is my balance sheet? How
12:45is my cash flow?
12:46>> So I think it's very much about being
12:48prepared and scanning the market. And
12:50from from a more practical point of
12:52view, do you acquire first and then
12:57structure your portfolio or do you
12:59restructure your portfolio and then go
13:02on to acquire? What is the best
13:04sequencing?
13:06>> Well,
13:08I think you cannot really control that.
13:10But I think for me the main
13:11>> or is it opportunity based?
13:12>> Exactly. I mean you need to be clear on
13:14your strategy
13:15>> and then depending on your balance sheet
13:17of course. I mean if you go into
13:18divestment process those also take time
13:21and you want to divest for a good price
13:23you don't want to divest for any price.
13:25>> So in that sense the sequence is
13:27important that if you make major
13:29acquisitions that you have strong enough
13:31balance sheet if you be if you become
13:34forced seller then you're in trouble
13:36because other party will know that
13:38you're in trouble. You're back against
13:40the wall and you will never get the
13:42>> No that's clear. Yeah. That also leads
13:44me to to another important question when
13:45it comes to ME that when you go whether
13:49you are acquiring something or divesting
13:52you need to be very clear on the
13:54valuation expectations that you set
13:56yourself and to stick to it.
13:58>> Let's say you're acquiring something.
14:00It's easy to get overly excited and then
14:02you sort of compete against yourself in
14:04the tendering process. You need to be
14:06very strict that this is my sort of top
14:08and then stop there.
14:10>> Yes.
14:10>> And equally if you're selling
14:12>> Yeah. that uh
14:14>> you need to have clear that when to walk
14:15away that if it becomes too too low
14:18valuation for you then better walk away
14:20and
14:21>> take a bit of time out and then see
14:23later what to do or find another
14:24candidate for the
14:26>> so essentially it depends on what your
14:28balance sheet looks like how you
14:31sequence it
14:32>> yeah I think that it's important point
14:33that strong balance sheet that gives you
14:36freedom and and important during the
14:38restructure in all ways is that you
14:40>> how do you destroy how do describe a
14:42strong balance sheet. What is a strong
14:43balance sheet?
14:44>> For me is good liquidity.
14:46>> Okay.
14:47>> A leverage that is not too high. Okay.
14:49>> Because you know the the companies don't
14:51go bankrupt because of one or two or
14:54three bad years. They go bankrupt
14:57because they run out of liquidity.
14:59>> And that's one of my main thesis that
15:01always take care of your liquidity and
15:03ensure that you you you are not uh going
15:07going too high when it comes to
15:09leverage. Yes. So that you have always
15:11some puff and headroom. Yes.
15:13>> Before in trouble because the worst
15:15thing that can happen to you when you
15:16are restructuring is that someone else
15:18starts to call the shots. And that
15:20happens if if you you over leverage or
15:22you run into liquidity crisis. That's
15:24when the banks and financial
15:25institutions start what to do. Yes.
15:28>> Exactly. And then you don't steer your
15:29destiny anymore.
15:30>> Yeah. That's clear. How how do you keep
15:33discipline on your balance sheet while
15:34you're going through this process? Well,
15:36it's very much about, you know,
15:38modeling, planning ahead.
15:40>> Mhm.
15:40>> Sort of uh uh having having different
15:44scenarios, testing how does it affect
15:46your your liquidity, how does it affect
15:48your leverage,
15:49>> can you fund it? And of also important
15:51thing is is that you you need to have
15:53good relationship with your banks and
15:55and the financial markets that when you
15:57need cash or money you can you can sort
16:00of contact and raise loans from the from
16:03the bank market or bond market or sai
16:06market so that you have various options
16:08available.
16:08>> Yeah.
16:09>> And do it rather in advance than than
16:11than later.
16:12>> Okay, that's clear. Let's move a bit
16:16further towards I'll call it the context
16:19in which you do this. So obviously we
16:22are now going through quite some
16:23interesting time with geopolitics and
16:25stuff like that. How do you deal with
16:28all these themes while you're going
16:30through a restructure or you need to go
16:32through a restructur?
16:36Well, I think first of all one one
16:38important role that CFO has is risk
16:40management and being prepared for for
16:43surprises.
16:44>> Yes. And uh I cannot not emphasize
16:48emphasize too much the the importance of
16:50having liquidity puffers and that's how
16:52you can you can manage the unknown and
16:56and surprises because there there are
16:57always some black swans behind the
17:00>> and and uh having good liquidity power
17:03strong balance sheet relationship with
17:05the banks you you can manage under
17:07uncertainty and also important is that
17:09you run frequently your your your sort
17:11of risk analysis. you you sort of follow
17:14the markets and you you you
17:16are actively managing it not being
17:19reactive [clears throat] because that's
17:20when you lose then it's too late.
17:22>> Okay. And how do you embed this in your
17:25team? Because obviously all of these
17:28processes need to be run by your team
17:30going through um a portfolio
17:32restructure. How do you look at finance
17:34from that point of view? How do you do
17:36that?
17:36>> Well, it's it's of course teamwork.
17:39>> So finance cannot work alone. Yes. It's
17:41it's a teamwork between strategy team.
17:44It's teamwork between finance, treasury,
17:48risk management, business also important
17:51to have the business involved because
17:52they should have the best sense and
17:54touch on the market where we are moving
17:56what is the direction and and and also
17:58work and most important is to work
18:00continuously on the profitability
18:02>> and and and [clears throat] ensure that
18:03your your business is in good shape.
18:05>> Yeah, that's clear. And and for me if
18:08you look at the the current context uh
18:11Bayart is really an interesting um
18:13position because you have a mega
18:16business that is actually playing
18:19globally. How has Bake dealt actually
18:22the past two three years with all these
18:25shocks that we've seen. Yeah, that
18:27that's a good question and I think
18:28geopolitics is playing quite an
18:30important role
18:31>> and one challenge in every international
18:34company is that how do you prepare for
18:36the unknown and risks one benefit we
18:38have is having a global platform
18:41>> because that that is I think it has
18:42become a become a competitive advantage
18:46you know if you go back back five or 10
18:48years it was about globalization moving
18:51production to lowcost countries
18:53typically China for instance or Asia But
18:56now it's more about localization. So I
18:59think in that sense the the the doctrine
19:01has changed and that in a way supports
19:04our
19:06uh platform and our our footprint where
19:08we are locally localized very much and
19:10that has purely given us benefit now in
19:13the tariffs because of course we we we
19:15get get hard time because of tariffs but
19:18has helped to mitigate the tries having
19:20local production. We have been able to
19:22sort of move volumes to to more to local
19:26production rather than importing always.
19:28Of course, you need to do the math. What
19:29is the effect of the time?
19:31>> What is Yeah, exactly. Exactly. If we
19:33will zoom a bit more into your finance
19:35team um how should a finance team be
19:38structured in a business um portfolio
19:42restructuring.
19:43>> Yeah.
19:44>> Um setup.
19:44>> Yeah. And I think I think if you look at
19:46the business today and and how look at
19:49the different crisis they have seen. I
19:51think it's it's very much about agility
19:54it's it's about being close to business.
19:57>> So and that is not only because of
19:59restructurf
20:00management. It's about how how the world
20:02is today. So you need to be very fast
20:05and very centralized organizations.
20:08>> Uh they are slow in decision making.
20:10Even small things are escalated up in
20:12organization which means it takes time
20:14to react when markets change and what I
20:17have seen over the past two three years
20:19not only in Beckard but also in my
20:21previous companies it has been very much
20:23about decentralization
20:25moving tasks moving responsibilities
20:28moving moving authority down in the
20:30organization towards the business and
20:33also for finance people I think it's
20:34important not to be in the in the
20:37headquarter they they should be in the
20:39business because then they feel the
20:41pulse of the business.
20:43>> People are a lot more actively managing
20:45the business, actively managing the
20:47risks and pressures when when when they
20:50feel sort of the the front line
20:52pressure.
20:53>> Okay.
20:53>> Of course, certain things need to be be
20:55be centralized because I'm a strong
20:57believer for instance in treasury being
21:00centralized in dollar audit tax. I mean
21:02that's clearly something that group
21:04needs to manage centrally otherwise
21:06you'll go to sub optimization it there
21:09are certain economies of scale assert
21:11services type of things but then it
21:13comes to business controlling FBA many
21:16of those can be
21:18>> local should be should be close to
21:21business and it's not finance I see the
21:23same trend in
21:24>> in other other functions as well look at
21:26HR or or or or other things but
21:30typically the very central ized but you
21:32see more and more decentralized.
21:34>> Yes.
21:36>> Before we endo, what kind of advice
21:39[snorts] would you give CFOs that are
21:42going to start a journey of business
21:44portfolio restructuring moving forward?
21:47>> Uh first of all, make sure that your
21:50your your business is in order. Like I
21:53said that your backyard yard is order.
21:55Make sure that you have liquidity
21:58puffers because you know there might be
22:00a rainy day and for sure there are rainy
22:02days then it's better to be ready and
22:04prepared
22:05>> so that like said someone else doesn't
22:07decide your destiny so that you can
22:09steer steer your direction
22:11>> and also important when you if you go to
22:13MA and acquisitions is to is to not only
22:16look at the current performance or past
22:18performance is to look look ahead
22:20because it's also so easy in the in when
22:23you're in the middle of things to think
22:25that this is normal cycle.
22:26>> Yeah.
22:26>> So you need to sense that is the
22:28fundamental fundamental change in your
22:31business underlying drivers.
22:33>> Yes.
22:33>> Or or and and what to do. It's easy to
22:36say afterwards
22:37>> but but [clears throat] you know only
22:38after the fact but you need to be clever
22:40enough to smell it test and that's why
22:42it's important to be close to business.
22:44>> Yeah.
22:44>> You cannot be in your ivory tower.
22:46>> No not at all. Thank you so much. Uh
22:49Sele I always end with the same
22:50question. What kind of other what other
22:52passions do you have?
22:54Well, I like history and and you know,
22:57Belgium is excellent place for that
22:58thing, but Waterloo Wateroo Museum was
23:01one of the first thing places I visited
23:03when when coming [clears throat] to
23:04Belgium.
23:05>> Then there are those old World War One
23:06and two battlefields.
23:08>> Mhm.
23:09>> But uh because my free time most of that
23:11I I I spend with my wife at the horse
23:14table because she's enthusiastic.
23:16>> Okay. horse girl and a rider and and and
23:19she loves horses and riding and I'm her
23:21staple point [laughter] and that's nice
23:24nice difference compared to my daily
23:26work you know you are outside you feel
23:28more relaxed and
23:29>> you sort of remember that life is not
23:32always about excel sheets it's about the
23:34the real life and and and and also help
23:37you to relax
23:38>> absolutely
23:38>> so that's that's what where I relax
23:41>> sele thank you so much for a great
23:43conversation
23:44>> thank you for having Thank you so much.
23:48What I take away from this conversation
23:50is that portfolio restructuring is not
23:53purely a strategic exercise. It's also
23:56not a purely financial one either. It
23:58sits exactly where the modern CFO needs
24:00to operate between ambition and
24:02discipline, between growth and
24:04resilience, between long-term value
24:06creation and short-term uncertainty.
24:09Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for
24:11watching this episode of the CO podcast.
24:13[music]
24:16Next week on the CFO playbook, Sepo
24:19Parvi, CFO of Bart. [music]
24:27Look, there's a gap and it's growing.
24:31AI's moving fast. [music] Expectations
24:33are moving right along with it. We close
24:35the gap and make AI work for your
24:37[music] business, driving real growth.
24:40We're IO, your AI native partner [music]
24:43in design, marketing, and technology.

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