YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Carl Wilkens - Finding the Good: Rwanda's Pathways Back to Trust

Carl Wilkens - Finding the Good: Rwanda's Pathways Back to Trust — Transcript

by DHHRM · 12,659 words · 1,773 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00our team during this transition I can't
0:02ask you to raise your hand tonight but I
0:04know several of you are listening in
0:06thank you for your unwavering support
0:09tonight I am so pleased to welcome Carl
0:12Wilkens as part of our permanent
0:14exhibition highlight series
0:16this series gives an in-depth look into
0:19different parts of our permanent
0:21exhibition from tonight's program on the
0:24Rwandan genocide which is featured in
0:26our 10 stages of genocide gallery to
0:30next month's presentation on the history
0:31of Asian Americans in the US and beyond
0:34we hope you will join us and keep an eye
0:38out for these programs I'm especially
0:40pleased that our first virtual program
0:43features Carl Wilkens he spoke at our
0:47previous small but mighty Museum in 2014
0:50and all of us who heard him speak that
0:53night were changed for the better
0:55for over a decade Carl Wilkens has been
0:59speaking up all over the world to
1:02inspire and equip people to enter the
1:05world of the other urging his audiences
1:08to hold public officials accountable to
1:11doing all that they can to stop and
1:13prevent genocide he was the only
1:17American who chose to stay in Kigali
1:20Rwanda throughout the 1994 genocide
1:25venturing out each day into the streets
1:28crackling with mortar and gunfire he
1:31worked his way through roadblocks of
1:33angry blood-stained soldiers and
1:36civilians to bring food water and
1:39medicine to orphans trapped around the
1:41city in 2011 Carl published a book about
1:46his experiences titled I'm not leaving
1:49and he is the focus of a documentary by
1:52the same name I don't know about you but
1:56I know that I definitely need a little
1:58inspiration right now tonight we are
2:01very fortunate to be able to learn from
2:04a true upstander Carl Wilkens story
2:07demonstrates each individual's ability
2:10to take a stand to make a difference
2:13even in the face of personal danger not
2:17unlike the health care providers and
2:19first responders who are putting their
2:21personal health at risk to care for
2:24those who are battling Kovach 19 here in
2:27Dallas and around the world they are
2:30pretty inspiring too as Annie mentioned
2:34we will leave time for questions at the
2:37end of Karl's presentation if you have a
2:39question please use the Q&A button
2:42located at the bottom of your screen to
2:44type out and submit your question and
2:47now please help me welcome Carl Wilkens
2:52I have a little message on my screen all
3:04right
3:14when oh okay
3:18you should they're not calling you good
3:19good um well thank you guys very much
3:22for gathering together I was looking
3:24forward to being in Houston this week
3:26and I am sort of still there it's it's
3:32it's um as Mary Pat said it's a really
3:36challenging time and for some of us
3:39maybe we flashback to other times this
3:42evening as I as I share some of the
3:44story of Rwanda with you I have been
3:46thinking a lot about almost 26 years ago
3:50stuck in my house only a lot a lot
3:54different situation going on in terms of
3:57people outside but I don't want to go
4:00right into that right away I love to
4:03start talking about Rwanda with Rwanda
4:06today I always tell people don't ride
4:08the taxi okay it's dangerous to take the
4:11motorcycle taxi but then that's me on
4:13the taxi because I love taking the
4:16motorcycle taxis this was just okay
4:18looks like an accident I think I'm just
4:20learning how to turn off the phone
4:22this was last April at the 25th
4:25commemoration and I'm so excited that
4:28Rwanda if you type in Rwanda and hit
4:30images you don't come up with genocide
4:32first thing anymore Rwanda is so much
4:35more than genocide you come up with all
4:37this beautiful countryside and you know
4:40one of the top tourist destinations so
4:42it's gonna be and then of course yeah I
4:44should go on a little farther you will
4:47start to see a segments of it and as is
4:51very very much evident as you travel
4:54around the country the memorial sites
4:56are there but I'd love to start with the
4:59idea that Rwanda is so much more than
5:01genocide usually I get to go to Rwanda
5:05um every year with schoolteachers and
5:07this last year I thought I'd be going
5:09twice once with teachers once with
5:11students but I ended up going seven
5:14times to Rwanda which is which was just
5:18incredible my last trip was in December
5:21and I was here in the state-of-the-art
5:24conference center
5:26golly and we were having what I would
5:29call a reverse State of the Union
5:31address I say reverse because I don't
5:35know where we got the idea that the
5:37president should tell the country how
5:38the country is doing Rwanda has has it
5:41right the people tell the president
5:43people citizens priorities government
5:47programs how well are they meeting each
5:49other's needs so for two days the
5:52president is here in fact if you could
5:56see yeah it's going to be too hard to
5:57see detail that little gray head right
6:00there is this gray head right here I had
6:02a I had a great seat right behind the
6:04government ministers and you might have
6:06thought that this would be a Pratap's
6:09turn into a gripe session or a complaint
6:11session but they always started true to
6:14Rwandan culture they always started with
6:17a thank you for this we appreciate that
6:20you know thank you for this early
6:22childhood development center in this
6:24community in the neighboring community
6:26we're working we need to get one
6:28developed here in this area always
6:30started with a thank you
6:32I think probably one of the most moving
6:34testimonies though during those two days
6:36was a young man there was another arena
6:38about 15 miles away with probably 2,000
6:42young people oh by the way I forgot to
6:44tell you all of scattered around the
6:46country are white event tents you know
6:48like at a wedding and an event tent and
6:50a high-speed Internet connection
6:52so people were speaking right in on the
6:55big screens to the conference center
6:57people were tweeting in their comments
6:59they were what's happening they were all
7:02the social media platforms and the
7:04government collated all of that
7:07responded actually prepared a document
7:09based on all of that feedback that is
7:12influencing this year's policy of course
7:15Rwanda plans much farther had been just
7:18a year when I was there they were
7:19talking 2050 so I am excited to get into
7:24Rwanda we're gonna go right back to 1990
7:29I often asked students you know do you
7:33see any resemblance my wife hasn't
7:36changed at all but somehow I
7:39I'm still glad to hear um but we were in
7:42France learning French 1990 our two
7:47daughters had actually been born in
7:48Zimbabwe when we were working there
7:50Zimbabwe and Zambia and we moved to
7:53Rwanda in the spring of 1990 I was
7:56working with the Adventist development
7:58relief agency the humanitarian arm of
8:01the seventh-day Adventist Church and
8:02some of our first projects were building
8:04schools super rewarding work working
8:06there doing that for the first four
8:08years quick little history lesson we'll
8:11go back to the light late 1800s the
8:13Germans were the colonizers after World
8:15War one of the Belgians were there I'm
8:17not going to go into the program of you
8:20Jeff I mean some of you are familiar
8:21with eugenics and and particularly in
8:24what we did here in America but the idea
8:27among the Belgians was somehow we have
8:29to figure out who's who who is superior
8:34I'm I am not going to lay the genocide
8:37at the feet of the colonizers however
8:39everybody had a role in in plane in
8:44setting the stage I guess I would say
8:46for this horrible event that would
8:48happen in 1994 and so the Belgians
8:53developed their ID cards as you can see
8:56on this card it would have the word Hutu
9:00the majority group there which is
9:02crossed out on this card could see so
9:05evidently this person would be a Tutsi
9:07tois the smallest group there and
9:10naturalized these cards would be like
9:13death warrants for the Tutsi people
9:17during the 1994 genocide to just kind of
9:21finish our quick little history lesson
9:23here in 62 independence will come
9:26instead of saying we're done with this
9:28Hutu to see what do you call when you
9:32give people a quota system instead of
9:35saying we're done with this quota system
9:37they they started talking about Hutu
9:40power tragically men each would see
9:42people were killed others were hid
9:44protected by their neighbors many fled
9:46to the neighboring countries I think
9:47they price up we'll be back in a couple
9:49weeks couple months no two years to the
9:52existing government
9:53years nope there's no room not welcome
9:55back here so in 1990 mostly refugees
10:00will form the Rwandan Patriotic Front
10:03and they will say okay we can't come on
10:05peacefully we're coming home by force
10:07and a war started
10:09for three years the Rwandan Patriotic
10:12Front was led by General Paul Kagame who
10:15is the president of Rwanda today
10:18fortunately after three years we thought
10:23peace now everybody later guns down
10:27they they had a the Arusha P or some
10:33nine power Shing government but
10:35unfortunately that government was
10:37delayed and delayed didn't happen in
10:39December like it was scheduled didn't
10:41happen in January by now about 2000 2500
10:46UN troops had arrived in Rwanda saying
10:49hey good job Rwanda the whole world is
10:51here with you we stand with you you know
10:53that idea of presence and they did make
10:56a big difference in terms of helping
10:58people who this is going to be ok but
11:03tragically this is going to be one of
11:05the worst examples of a false sense of
11:09security when April finally comes around
11:13I actually included this picture a
11:15little bit a little hesitant this is
11:18this is the picture of the men and women
11:20the core group it's actually a picture
11:23out of the Kigali genocide memorial the
11:25core group of men and women who we would
11:28say are the authors of the genocide the
11:30planners the executioner's of the
11:33genocide front and center this gentleman
11:35with the beard we're going to refer to
11:37him a little later in our story today
11:39combined it was appointed the prime
11:40minister you see the president's plane
11:44well let me let me just touch on
11:46genocide for a minute I know most of you
11:48are familiar with this word as I travel
11:51and have conversations with students
11:54about genocide I haven't found a more a
11:59more direct way a more understandable
12:04way of describing where
12:07genocide comes from where does this come
12:10from how can how can people my little
12:13visual aid
12:14how can people go from kind and generous
12:16to murderers and and and then of course
12:20what we're what I'm excited to talk
12:22about this evening is is it possible you
12:24can't go back lifetime go back is it
12:26possible for them to ever be kind and
12:28generous trusted neighbors again and
12:31this idea that my world would be better
12:34without you in it is a false there's no
12:38such places my world except in my head
12:40but we're working as we studied these
12:43stories and exploring how we can
12:46transition our thinking from my world
12:48thinking to our world thinking so I
12:52wanted to just really make sure I was
12:54clear on this point that the Rwandan
12:57genocide was not about Hutus hating
13:00Tutsis would cease hating due to this
13:03was not a tribal grassroots movement
13:08this was politicians manipulating the
13:12needs of ordinary people to achieve
13:15their ends of staying in power of
13:18eliminating the opposition the the Hutu
13:22and Tutsi people married each other by
13:24the thousands in fact the planners of
13:26the genocide had to work hard to break
13:29the bonds between Hutus and Tutsis and
13:32so with that little bit of background
13:36we'll come to that night around eight
13:39o'clock as I remember
13:40Wednesday night April 6 1994 my parents
13:44were actually visiting and dances whoa
13:46heard that explosion I said yeah he says
13:49what do you think that was I said I
13:50don't know we had heard he and grenades
13:52and gunfire but this was a lot bigger
13:54than that and it wasn't long before the
13:57phone rang and we found out that the
14:00president had been killed and and it
14:02wasn't just the phone call we started to
14:04hear gunfire
14:05Kigali is a city built on hills and
14:08those gunfire that would eka Seco
14:10ricochet kind of like cascading water
14:13creature as it would ricochet throughout
14:15the city and the killing started it's
14:18documented less than
14:20after the plane was shot down thousands
14:23of people everyday general Dallaire the
14:30commander of the UN force had to be one
14:33of the most tortured people at that
14:35point in time not not trying to compare
14:37it to the Tutsi people who were hunted
14:39and hunted and killed but he was
14:41representing the world and he had enough
14:44soldiers if he would simply have the
14:47support to stop this first time since
14:50the end of world war two when the whole
14:52world was saying this phrase never again
14:54people saw the Holocaust and they
14:56couldn't imagine that that was even
14:58possible in the furnaces and and all of
15:00the wars and they said yeah never very
15:02good and now we had soldiers in a
15:04country that we didn't have to knock on
15:06doors can you give us soldiers they were
15:08there they could have stopped it but New
15:11York would not listen to their people in
15:14Rwanda and and that's probably a theme
15:18you're gonna hear a couple more times
15:19this evening about the benefit or the
15:22disaster of not listening to the people
15:25on the ground so for the American
15:29government for most other embassies all
15:31other in fact that I know us they made
15:34the decision real quick ours was made on
15:36Friday plane shot down Wednesday night
15:38Friday everybody's leaving they said the
15:42American Canadians and Germans said I'm
15:44probably not a good idea to fly out we
15:46think that's too risky I don't know if
15:48they were thinking about the president's
15:49plane being shot down driving now and
15:52they said I had actually been meeting at
15:55the Embassy for several weeks with
15:56situation reports we had planned if
15:59things cuz we knew we were sitting on
16:03like a keg of dynamite I think it was
16:06this overly optimistic hope that we had
16:10that it would be defused and and and
16:12peace with them so we had assembly
16:15points identified we put the evacuation
16:17plans into effect first convoy leaving
16:20on Saturday the last convoy on Sunday
16:23made it really clear bring a drink of
16:25course bring her family this picture was
16:27probably about a week
16:28before the the genocide happened that my
16:31mom and dad were visiting there and um
16:34yeah of course bring your mom and dad
16:35bring your family in fact you can bring
16:37anybody you want in the convoy except
16:41Rwandan s-- we rightfully we rightfully
16:50condemned the planners of the genocide
16:52for killing people based on their ID
16:54card however the American government
16:59made decisions and again there's plenty
17:01of stories of the American government
17:03Washington DC not listening to their
17:05people in Kigali but Washington DC made
17:09the decisions and called the shots and
17:12and they said don't bring any Rwandan
17:15s-- will be stopped at many roadblocks
17:17before we get to Burundi the country to
17:19the south I didn't give you a little
17:21geography we're right in the middle of
17:23Africa if you haven't looked at that
17:24lately right below the equator
17:27don't bring any Rwandan well our family
17:31wasn't just our children and mom and dad
17:33we had been there for four years there
17:36was a young lady who lived and worked in
17:38our home who loved on our kids and when
17:41somebody loves on your kids that's like
17:42fast track into salmon
17:44she had a Tutsi ID card the young man
17:46who came in the evening as the watchman
17:49he had a Tutsi ID card
17:50they were both marked to be killed and
17:52the embassy is telling us in effect to
17:56leave part of her family behind Teresa
17:59and I went into the bedroom we talked we
18:01prayed we just we couldn't see our way
18:04clear to leaving them pretty much
18:07convinced that they would be killed and
18:09Rwanda we had enjoyed this incredible
18:12privilege the people of Rwanda are
18:15hospitable and generous and I know
18:17sometimes I'm like do hear yourself
18:19talking you're talking about a genocide
18:21on one hand and you're talking about
18:22people who are hospitable and generous
18:24on the other but I would put forth to
18:26you that it only takes a couple of cells
18:28like cancer a couple of cells of
18:30discrimination of when you when you hire
18:36yeah discrimination what's the other
18:38word I want to use there when you are
18:42dividing people like apartheid and all
18:44of these things it doesn't take much to
18:48spoil a country in terms of that kind of
18:52poison thinking fear like gas on the
18:56fire and this idea of us in them and the
19:00radios had been broadcasting messages
19:02against the Tutsi songs comedians who
19:05are hilarious songs with catchy tunes
19:07but all of them had messages it's like
19:10the radio waves were carrying bricks
19:12into people's homes and on those bricks
19:15there would be a message against the
19:17Tutsi and some people built a wall with
19:20those bricks until they could no longer
19:22see their neighbor they just saw this
19:24poster on the wall that said enemy but
19:28there was still this incredible
19:30privilege and respect that was given to
19:33foreigners and I said to charissa maybe
19:35I can use that to help these two people
19:38and and if I get carried away with my
19:41story and forget to tell you they do
19:43survive the genocide so Teresa I will
19:47actually I had built a little pickup
19:49camp or a little camper on the back of
19:52our pickup truck I used to be a shop
19:54teacher you know auto mechanics welding
19:56and stuff you look at the kids they
19:58don't look terrified here
19:59I get so much credit for for doing what
20:04a lot of moms do in these situations
20:05tell you it's gonna be okay I'm not
20:08going anywhere we're gonna make it and
20:10so Teresa and the children as I said
20:13they drove out my dad was the one
20:15actually who was driving Teresa the kids
20:18and their grandma and my mom were in the
20:20back with the curtains drawn and so
20:23Teresa doesn't want to go back to
20:25America she's afraid of losing contact
20:27she'll have to eventually leave Burundi
20:29to go to Nairobi but I'm the best part
20:32of every day for me every day during the
20:34genocide was to talk to Teresa on the
20:37radio I'm gonna just give us a couple of
20:41quick snapshots of 1994 and then I'm
20:43gonna move forward into Rwanda journey
20:46after the genocide we're just sitting
20:49around the dining room table here I
20:51think it was the morning prayers during
20:53the genocide the young lady the young
20:54man
20:55and pastor Sariah and his wife mrs.
20:58Raths a wonderful couple actually here's
21:01a picture from last April
21:03retired in Rwanda now she was this one
21:06who is able to diffuse when people came
21:08to the gate to kill the people in her
21:10house she talked to them like an auntie
21:13she helped disc its food I mean food
21:20from the deep well I said pastor it's
21:28fantastic that Anita and jennfier is
21:30like but we got to do more and I'll
21:31never never forget but he said he said
21:33Karl he's not a guy who talks a lot but
21:36when he talks you listen is this Karl if
21:39you're gonna do anything outside outside
21:41our fence you got to build a
21:43relationship with the people in power
21:44and so that will be the beginning of
21:47building many relationships during the
21:49genocide I really didn't know what what
21:52we could do out there I knew people were
21:54being killed but I'm like we got to do
21:55something so we went into the government
21:58headquarters in the capital city colonel
22:00Rennes Ajo was like the mayor of the
22:03city you could call him kind of the
22:04governor of the region military and I
22:07introduced myself
22:09he's actually in prison now captured
22:12tried convicted of his different roles
22:15in the genocide but when we met he
22:18seemed very concerned about my safety
22:20and I said hey I want to help I'm the
22:23director for addre how can I help
22:25there's some orphanages he prepared a
22:27travel permit so that when I came to the
22:30roadblocks I would show them this
22:31document they would let me through see
22:33that the whole city was like every block
22:35was a roadblock and the murdering was
22:37happening everywhere I I don't and
22:41tonight I chose not to use any graphic
22:44images you know hoping maybe the whole
22:46family could come for for the story here
22:49um but you you if you if you really want
22:54to dig deeper into 1994 there's a
22:56documentary called ghosts of Rwanda PBS
22:58Frontline ghosts of Rwanda it will give
23:01you an in-depth look at 1994 but the
23:07colonel said to me
23:09that I've got a couple of ideas there's
23:14a Frenchman who stayed he's got some
23:17more fins you could go check him out and
23:18then there's a big orphanage in yummy
23:20Rambo
23:21one of the one of the poorer
23:23neighborhoods of the city large densely
23:25populated neighborhood in the city and
23:27in that area there was an orphanage
23:31operated by a man named Damascus Simba
23:34his wife Beatrice some of you actually
23:37may have heard tamasa story on humans of
23:39New York he has a very incredible
23:41inspiring story I'm gonna think I think
23:43Tomas was probably around 34 at that
23:46time this 34 year young man and his wife
23:49with their new baby our housing well
23:54started with 80 kids and then it went on
23:57to one hundred and eighty two hundred by
24:00the time the genocide ends will be more
24:01than four hundred children there and and
24:04so I will go actually the first time
24:07that I arrived there I am I saw little
24:11piles like dirt
24:13something was dug up in the in the
24:15parking lot what and he told me it was
24:17graves of the children not ones who had
24:21been killed by the genocide well yeah
24:23they were killed by the genocide but
24:25another form of murder
24:27they they they died of diarrhea and
24:31dysentery they had no water and so that
24:34was the first and that became the
24:36primary work of myself one of my
24:39colleagues from addre Dawson who was
24:42working with me another colleague from
24:44addre ghaseeta these these gentlemen
24:46just um
24:48Elise say they're just courageous men
24:51and you know while the sequel was
24:55helping me bring water back home he had
24:58more than 40 people he was trying to
25:01protect in his own well he was
25:02protecting at least for as long as he
25:05could
25:06it's it's um it's a remarkable story
25:08when his neighbors came to kill I mean
25:12they had been listening to the radio
25:13they had been building these walls you
25:15know the propaganda they couldn't see
25:18you know their neighborhood they just
25:19saw the enemy but the secret didn't see
25:21the enemy
25:22all neighbors and when I would say
25:25there's a couple of killers cos secrets
25:27they know those are father's and and he
25:30came out of his house st. Bernard your
25:32daughter's must be hungry huh maybe the
25:34night before Bernardo put his little
25:35girl to bed daddy I'm hungry
25:36your love take a take a little drink of
25:38water no I want food tomorrow and how
25:43could he imagine that tomorrow when he
25:46went to kill somebody he would be
25:48greeted with kindness
25:54excuse me gasp ekwa just is one of many
26:01I'd like to say many people who really
26:05exemplify this is kind of my little how
26:08the world works here
26:10everybody wants purpose everybody wants
26:12community but if we'll start with an
26:15environment of respect we're where
26:18everybody is valued and we can learn
26:21each other's stories then the empathy
26:23just begins to grow I say hey do you
26:25have any brother oh yeah I've got oh I
26:27got two brothers as soon as we hear each
26:29other's stories we begin to connect the
26:30dots and empathy begins to grow the
26:32power of stories is is I think one of
26:36the most powerful forces on the world
26:38and when we begin to learn each other's
26:40stories we begin to connect the dots and
26:42the empathy grows we're like hey why
26:45don't you come home with me inclusion
26:47doesn't become some forced idea it
26:50becomes the icing on the cake it becomes
26:54just a natural response
26:55I think we're wired for empathy I think
26:58we're wired I know we're wired for
27:00community and soga sequa is just to me
27:04an inspiring example of how an
27:08environment of respect can promote the
27:11growth of empathy and inclusion these
27:14are a couple as you can probably tell
27:16three of my favorite values to explore
27:18during that time but let's um let's wrap
27:22up what time do we have here and I look
27:24at my watch to my timekeepers right here
27:28with me okay 25 so the last little story
27:33from 94
27:35the sequin I show up at the orphanage
27:37towards the end of June and we're
27:40surrounded within five minutes by
27:41militia guys with their machine guns and
27:44their machetes they had said the day
27:45before we're coming tomorrow I don't
27:47know why they gave warning often they
27:49didn't give warning we're coming
27:50tomorrow we know you have to accede
27:52empty this place because anybody who
27:54remains we're gonna kill which was
27:56really unusual it was very unusual for
28:00them to to give warning before a
28:04massacre maybe it had something to do
28:06with the respect that they had for demas
28:08the director I'm not sure but the short
28:12version of the stories we're gonna have
28:13about a two hour standoff maybe three
28:15hard to keep track of time in moments
28:18like that but they were coming in as
28:20long as I was there it seemed and
28:22eventually I got a hold of the Red Cross
28:24I mean it was terrifying they're in the
28:26orphanage the kids who are looking out
28:28the window they recognize these men as
28:31people who had killed their parents
28:33their siblings this I cannot begin to
28:36communicate to you the trauma of that
28:39moment let me just pause for a minute -
28:45used to be when I told this story I got
28:48this big knot in my stomach like I was
28:49right back in the middle of that
28:51horrible moment and and and I may not
28:54get the chance today to talk about how
28:56important dealing with that trauma has
28:59been for me and I won't I won't go into
29:02detail right now unless one of you want
29:04to talk about it but um I can tell that
29:07story today now without knots in my
29:09stomach I still might get tears in my
29:11eyes which I don't want to lose but I
29:13can tell it without knots in my stomach
29:15because I got I got professional
29:18counselling I was journaling because I
29:20could tell my wife my brothers my
29:22thought and any I have a support system
29:25and so I just I just don't want to pass
29:28over that I was just I was kind of like
29:30doing a little body check as I was
29:32telling the story and I was like yeah
29:33I'm okay I'm okay but but this story is
29:39gonna have a really crazy ending where
29:42they won't get massacred which this
29:44which is unbelievable
29:45I get a hold of Phillip guy yard the
29:49Durr of the International Red Cross
29:50you'll meet him if you watch that
29:52documentary ghost of Rwanda Swiss Minh
29:54he will he'll contact the police he'll
29:57send some police officers they'll come
29:59about seven of them I'll say man I'm so
30:00glad you're here and and he'll say I
30:02what you spend the night I said no no
30:04we're too outnumbered you will get help
30:06and then I got this terrible dilemma do
30:08I do I leave because it seems like for
30:11some reason as long as I've been here I
30:13don't know if it's I don't know why they
30:17have different perceptions I don't know
30:18why but as long as I've been in here
30:20they haven't come in what if I leave and
30:22what if these police officers join in
30:25the massacre because I had heard about
30:26police officers participating in the
30:28genocide I had also seen police officers
30:30help me in my work I finally decided to
30:33trust him
30:34and I laughed I went to the Colonel's
30:38office which I knew he wasn't there but
30:42I didn't know where else to go and the
30:44secretary said yeah the Colonel's not
30:45here but the Prime Minister's here
30:47now remember well no I didn't tell you
30:49this part I maybe I didn't mention the
30:52Prime Minister was killed the second day
30:54of the genocide this light image you see
30:56of a lady here and this guy the bearded
30:59guy who I pointed out in the center of
31:01the photographs of the people who
31:02planned the genocide come Banda became
31:05the Prime Minister and she's saying he's
31:07here a surprise visit they had moved the
31:09government out of Kigali because it was
31:11too violent too much war and she's like
31:13he's here on a surprise visit ask him
31:15for help but I'm like whoa whoa wait
31:17wait a minute because I had told her the
31:19orphanage is surrounded I think they're
31:21gonna Massacre everybody if they haven't
31:22already
31:23she says ask him for help and I'm like
31:25what wait what what he's in charge of
31:27the genocide I didn't argue with her I
31:29simply went out in the hallway waited I
31:32asked him and he stopped the genocide
31:35now I've got my theories as to why he
31:39did it
31:39but I'm not going into them today I'm
31:42just gonna tell you once again how
31:45important it is to listen to the local
31:47people and the other thing that's really
31:50a big deal for me is sometimes our most
31:54powerful allies can be found among the
31:57people we define as the enemy
32:00and that is that's a real game-changer
32:03for me that the the genocide will end
32:06when the Rwandan Patriotic Front drives
32:09the extremists out of power and out of
32:11the country ends on July 4 in Kigali
32:14probably around the 12th or so of July
32:16around the country I will go out I will
32:19be reunited with Teresa and the kids in
32:22Nairobi will spend another year and a
32:26half in Rwanda before leaving we're
32:28gonna fast forward now I did want to
32:30share with you the picture this is the
32:32young lady who was there in our home got
32:34married after the genocide her handsome
32:36sons and of course I have to show you a
32:40picture of our family all grown up our
32:42family which has grown we are so excited
32:44to have J Lisa and J on the end just got
32:47married a little more than a year ago
32:50and I was back home for probably about
32:53nine years before I took my first trip
32:56back to Rwanda and I've been able to go
32:58back pretty much every year and
33:00sometimes multiple times well last year
33:01was a record usually I'm going back with
33:04students and teachers this was a group
33:06of students from Chicago this last
33:08summer and then a group of teachers from
33:11all around the u.s. we're actually at
33:14escena Gerard any of our Rwandan friends
33:17who are watching they know this man for
33:18his hot sauce and his innovation I mean
33:21talk about innovation I couldn't resist
33:22putting this picture in huh you just see
33:24a tree but if we can zoom in close
33:27enough here you will see blue water
33:30bottles like from a cooler hanging from
33:32the tree cut these are Hanging Gardens
33:34we have carrots growing in a tree this
33:37guy is an incredible innovator but we
33:39get back to our back to our story where
33:42I'm gonna try to unpack for you before
33:45we have a Q&A time this not so much the
33:49journey of generous to murderuss but
33:52this journey of a murderer going back to
33:56being a trusted neighbor then this is
33:59this is the part that is so really
34:02astounding I mean we some of us can't
34:04understand how somebody can go from
34:05generous to murders but we see the
34:07bodies we have the evidence we do not we
34:09don't doubt it but I and many others
34:12doubt the past
34:14ability of somebody ever being
34:16trustworthy again after committing
34:19genocide so we went to this place it's
34:22called a little reconciliation village
34:24and I'm going to give you the fast
34:25version of this part as I get to our
34:28specific story but there's many women
34:31gathered in this room who some of them
34:33are survivors and some of them are
34:35perpetrators and they will they will
34:38come and generously they will share
34:40their stories with us imagine yourself
34:44in this room looking into bright smiles
34:47and others are wondering what is their
34:49story what have they been through in the
34:52last 25 years I I was especially excited
34:57to be there with our students from
34:59Chicago and to see their reactions and
35:02for them to listen to these stories and
35:04these stories I'm highlighting for you
35:07today is a story about Maria and Maria
35:12would say her her one of the closest
35:18family friends is how she would
35:19introduce Philbert Maria and I had a
35:24couple things in common we both at the
35:26time of the genocide had three children
35:28and we both had very difficult
35:31conversations with our spouses about the
35:34safety of our children we were able to
35:36send Teresa and I our children to safety
35:38she and her husband didn't have that
35:40option they decided to split up she
35:42would take the daughter he would take
35:44the three sons two sons I think and I
35:47hope I had my numbers right sometimes
35:48with translation but that's the gist of
35:50the story he would take the two sons she
35:52would take the daughter hoping that in
35:54smaller groups they could survive it
35:56would work for her and the daughter not
35:58for him in the son now I introduced
36:01filbert as a family friend this summer
36:03he was introduced to me as one of the
36:06people who participated in the genocide
36:08not only did he participate in the
36:10genocide but he was in the gang that
36:14killed Maria and filbert's
36:16I mean Maria's Maria's husband and sons
36:20I I've really wrestled with how to tell
36:23this story because I'm not trying to be
36:25sensational I mean the stories of Rwanda
36:27so sensational already they sing beyond
36:29reality but but stick with me for a
36:33minute on this story there's a lot to be
36:35pulled out of this story because it's
36:37easy to just say oh that's some sort of
36:39you know bizarre one-in-a-million type
36:42of things and Maria would tell you her
36:44story is not one in a million but but
36:46let me try my best to explain this is
36:50the the way I try to understand how
36:53people can go from murderers to trust
36:56the neighbors and not just them but how
36:58about people whose world have been
36:59upside turned upside down and their
37:01families have been killed can they ever
37:03have a help happy happy healthy life
37:06again and so we're gonna look at
37:09reframing and we're also going to
37:11explore a tiny bit in neural pathways
37:13really quick I mean I'm not a scientist
37:16by any stretch of the imagination but
37:18they tell us how we can form new
37:19pathways every time we get new
37:21information we form a new pathway and
37:23the more we fire those pathways the the
37:27stronger the outside coating the myelin
37:29sheath becomes on that pathway and so
37:33we're gonna we're gonna enter into a
37:35story of people building new pathways
37:38and choosing which pathways to fire
37:42we're gonna look at three big steps here
37:45in Rwanda for this journey to trust this
37:48journey restorative journey restorative
37:52justice is the first part we'll look at
37:55Rwanda is had way too many people to try
37:57with conventional courts so they reached
37:59back in their history and they pulled
38:01out what they call a homegrown solution
38:04Rwanda has many homegrown solutions and
38:07Gotcha was where prisoners like filbert
38:10many of them you know kind of just
38:12crammed in a prison where there wasn't
38:14enough space at the beginning even for
38:17everybody to lay down at the same time
38:18because there were just so many people
38:20who had participated or were accused in
38:23the genic but had a participated you
38:25don't when is when more than a million
38:27people are killed by their neighbors is
38:29not a small group and so the prisoners
38:32were told if you confess you can be
38:35given half the normal sentence that that
38:38has been decided for ordinary people
38:40this a
38:41had top-level organizers mid-level and
38:43then the people like filbert the vast
38:45majority who were doing the killing
38:47filbert chose to confess when he
38:50confessed people learned will take Maria
38:54for example she learned where her
38:56husband and Sons were buried for years
38:59this is my imagination but see if this
39:01doesn't make sense
39:02for years I'm imagining that Maria is
39:04thinking how did it happen how did it
39:07end where the boys with their dad who
39:10died first wasn't long so man I don't
39:13know we're the greatest maybe they're
39:14not even dead it's really hard to
39:16process imagine I don't know if we can
39:19process imaginings but when the truth
39:21comes out Thursday afternoon clothes
39:23school clothes shops go to the soccer
39:26field confession the cha-cha will happen
39:29and people learn the truth then they
39:32have something to have something to
39:33begin to work with in terms of
39:36processing from katachi the people could
39:40go to what's called a tease camp that's
39:42work in the interest of the general
39:44public now let me just give you one
39:46quick little visual of cha-cha you would
39:48pick the community would pick seven men
39:50and women this little sash that they're
39:53wearing says a person of integrity and
39:55those are the ones who would facilitate
39:57these um these confession experiences on
40:02the soccer field and then they would go
40:04to as I as I mentioned here and and I'll
40:07just give me the outline they would go
40:09to the teach camp or what I call a
40:11reinvent yourself camp and from there
40:13they would come home where they could
40:15have shared experiences at the at the
40:19tease camp there's it's not really a
40:22prison camp there's no fence no walls
40:24the people are given a chance to do
40:26projects to benefit the community not to
40:29pay back you can't pay back for killing
40:31people they're given a chance to benefit
40:33the community in in Road building and
40:36radical terrorist scene making bricks
40:38for schools maybe they even could go to
40:40church if they on the weekend put on
40:42civilian clothes go to a local church
40:44imagine you're in a church and let's say
40:47we're singing on a scene grace we're in
40:49a church in rond okay amazing grace
40:51house and all the sudden the muse of the
40:54volume
40:55is down as they look one of these ladies
40:57comes walking in the church what pathway
41:00do you fire in your brain do you think
41:03wow I'm glad she's here or there's
41:05somebody from the camp do you call it a
41:07killer camp do you call it at each camp
41:09we have choices what pathways you were
41:11gonna fire and then she starts singing
41:13and that saved a rich and she got it's
41:16got a beautiful voice do you do you form
41:19a new pathway about her she's got an
41:21incredible voice where do you say who
41:22cares you know she's a killer
41:26or she tortured her we have choices in
41:29terms of how we see if we see people as
41:32only one thing we will be blind to so
41:36many other things from the camps the
41:39people could come home and here's where
41:41we'll come back to Maria and filbert
41:43they got engaged in a project of
41:46building homes together didn't want to
41:48see each other at the beginning
41:49understandably but but because there was
41:52security and safety and because the
41:55government was working intentionally
41:57powerfully towards the idea of unity and
42:00reckon we are gonna live together we're
42:02not gonna have a Hutu town or a Tutsi
42:04town
42:04we are Rwandan in fact when I was there
42:07on another visit this summer this
42:09October the president said being Rwandan
42:12isn't really about being from a place
42:13it's not about an ethnicity it's about
42:16integrity and that new identity that is
42:19being developed and grown in Rwanda is
42:23really making a difference not everybody
42:25is like Maria and filbert I mean as they
42:28went on and had shared experiences and
42:30build new pathways in their brain man
42:33Maria built such so many new pathways in
42:36her brain
42:36that wind her she's so redefined
42:40Philbert she allowed filbert to redefine
42:44himself and she she says he helps me
42:46like my sons and he does it willingly
42:49I'll be honest with you I first heard
42:51the story my first thought was yeah well
42:54if he wouldn't have killed your sons
42:55they would be here to help you but you
42:58see I was stuck in 1994 with that kind
43:02of thinking but instead Maria Maria made
43:06the choice to
43:08we invent Philbert even to the point of
43:12inviting him to her daughter's wedding
43:15um I'm sure we've got questions that are
43:20coming here now and as you can probably
43:21tell I could go on and on with the
43:23stories but I am gonna gonna hand it
43:27back I'm looking forward to some
43:29conversation I'm really grateful I don't
43:31think I said this at the beginning to
43:33the Holocaust the Dallas Holocaust and
43:36human rights museum team for this chance
43:38to be here thanks so much and I do look
43:41forward to some of your questions that I
43:43think I've been seeing some little
43:44things go across the top of my super
43:46yeah we've got some questions for sure
43:48and then we'll we'll echo your thanks
43:50Carl we we so appreciate you being here
43:51and for your flexibility and turning
43:54this into a virtual experience I will
43:57say that Carl has actually been very
43:58helpful for us on how to do these kinds
44:00of events to it's something he does
44:02quite a bit as well so thank you for
44:03that but we'll go ahead and jump right
44:05into questions so I'll start with with
44:08this one
44:09just a light question to get you started
44:12what about our world today makes you
44:14feel most afraid and what gives you the
44:16most hope um I'll be honest I I have
44:24thought during this time of the
44:25coronavirus people are are shut in their
44:31homes people are looking at losing their
44:35retirement funds on the one hand people
44:38are just simply looking at not being
44:39able to pay the rent on the other hand
44:41they're looking at all kinds of
44:42hardships and the idea of violence has
44:45come to my mind because when we I stuck
44:49this little drawing on here
44:52this helps me to try to kind up it's
44:54more of a self-reflection drawing than
44:57to try to blame to measure or judge I
45:00don't want to judge other people but I
45:03but I often look at situations as a
45:05pathway to harm and a pathway to healing
45:08and the word I've chosen for the pathway
45:11to harm is polarize which i think is one
45:13of the most powerful tools on the
45:16pathway to harm something bad happens we
45:18blame somebody for it and then we do
45:21something violent and if no
45:22stands up if nobody the government or
45:25individuals stand up then it can it
45:27becomes the new norm and more violence
45:29and more violence comes the thing that
45:31gives me hope though during this time is
45:33this idea of restoration and and the
45:37idea we all know this in our head and
45:41many have practice it that we are
45:44stronger together that when we find
45:47problems blaming doesn't help anything
45:50we need to find the cause absolutely but
45:52in restorative justice everybody's voice
45:55is important to come into the
45:57conversation and together we find a
45:59solution I really you know students
46:02asked me I was skyping with kids in
46:04Poland at 4:30 this morning and they're
46:07always asking you know how can you still
46:10believe in people why are you optimistic
46:13they seem to pick that up after spending
46:15some time together and I'm like I've
46:18chosen to believe that people care it's
46:21easy if you believe people don't care to
46:23have enough evidence to see selfish
46:25they're only enough for themselves but I
46:27believe people care we just often don't
46:29know how to care so that's why I'm
46:32excited about all kinds of little tools
46:35and graphics that we might talk about a
46:37little more this evening about how and
46:40why people do go from violent I mean
46:43neighbors to violent and they go back
46:46and and there are in Rwanda I would say
46:49we have a lot of people on the end of
46:52the spectrum towards Maria and we still
46:54have people on the other end of the
46:55spectrum really hurt and really angry
46:57and we have a large mass in the middle
47:00and I am I am super optimistic about the
47:05power of stories to connect us empathy
47:09and then as we practice inclusion if we
47:13look around during this time we will see
47:15who's the guy from the office who just
47:17started being John yeah I just started
47:20this what good news network we look
47:23around and we find there's a lot of
47:26evidence that people do care they just
47:28need to know how to care thanks for that
47:30question I sent that John Krasinski
47:33video to my team that made me happy too
47:35thanks the next question so within the
47:38actual 100 days of the genocide was
47:40anyone using the term genocide
47:43um I feel like it was right around the
47:46end of April that I first started
47:48hearing it being used
47:51I had communication every day with
47:53Teresa but when we talked we didn't
47:55really talk a lot about the genocide or
47:58world events we talked family talk my
48:01connection to the world was through the
48:03BBC I had a little shortwave radio in my
48:06house and I believe it was towards the
48:09end of April that I started hearing this
48:12word and you know I'm kind of well I'm
48:14I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I
48:17didn't know much about genocide in 1994
48:20I knew about the Holocaust and I read
48:23stories and studied but I didn't know
48:25much about the Cambodian genocide and
48:27the other genocide the Armenian Genocide
48:29I didn't know much about it and so it's
48:32the end of April that we started hearing
48:34that terminology and I'll just add on if
48:38you watch goes to Rwanda
48:40you know they definitely dance around
48:42not using the term as if if they use the
48:45term they would have to do something
48:46tragically with the genocide in Darfur
48:48that is still like a slow-motion
48:50lingering genocide we called it genocide
48:54and we still haven't taken definitive
48:57action to end it thank you for that and
49:01I have a question from a university
49:04professor now who actually her students
49:06just watched ghosts of Rwanda and read
49:08word Samantha power it said that she's
49:11noticed that over the past 20 years
49:12she's been teaching our students often a
49:14little about the Rwandan genocide or
49:16other other things like Myanmar when
49:19they come into the class so do you have
49:21any thoughts on when and how genocide
49:24should be addressed in the K through 12
49:26education system oh absolutely I I love
49:31getting in with first graders and second
49:34graders and we start talking about
49:36respect empathy and inclusion no we're
49:39not using graphic images and we're not
49:41even using the word genocide although we
49:44do use the terms us and them
49:47I remember asking some person
49:49second-graders um do you guys know what
49:51empathy means and this one little guy is
49:53like oh oh oh and so I call on him and
49:55he goes um um and about ten hours later
49:59he says feeling what other people feel
50:01like yeah way to go and so definitely we
50:05can start age-appropriate with these
50:08basic ideas of we don't solve problems
50:12by getting rid of people we solve
50:14problems by bringing people together
50:16more heads more wisdom more experience
50:20more potential for creative solutions
50:23and so I definitely believe that we
50:26can't we can't start tuna too young I
50:29think I think the problem is sometimes
50:31we have we have kind of locked genocide
50:35or Holocaust in its own little box and
50:38and it is a very unique specific event
50:42that happens with very defined you know
50:46parameters and causes and stages in
50:49there but when we look deep in it I
50:52believe we come with that basic
50:54definition I had earlier it stems from
50:56thinking that says my world would be
50:58better without you in it and then and
51:00then we have conversations about the
51:02power of words and and how words are
51:06forming pathways in our brain and even
51:09though I say oh I was just joking it's
51:11making pathways and those pathways are
51:14unconsciously affecting other pathways
51:17so I think we can start right right as
51:21soon as we're interested in stories and
51:23they're our wonderful story books out
51:25there too for the little ones about why
51:28why does somebody care about how dark my
51:30skin is we have all of those different
51:33stories and resources thanks for
51:35bringing that question great and I'll
51:37give a little plug for the museum here
51:39we're actually doing one of our virtual
51:40series that we just started is a story
51:42time for little ones teaching inclusion
51:45and tolerance and empowerment through
51:47through those things of books you're
51:48talking about so that's Friday mornings
51:50at 9:30 if anyone's interested in
51:51joining us sort of a two-part I'm going
51:56to combine two different questions we
51:57got so what even this re-entry process
52:01that you were describing in Rwanda what
52:04does that recidivism rate look like and
52:06do you see any examples of similar kind
52:08of restorative justice here in the u.s.
52:10mmm nice nice thank you really like that
52:14I'm it was interesting I've probably
52:17visited about seven or eight prisons in
52:22Rwanda I've had a lot of conversations
52:25with prison personnel and some limiting
52:27conversations with prisoners I remember
52:30asking one assistant warden I hope this
52:33isn't a bad question I said or or a
52:37inappropriate question but can you tell
52:39the difference between prisoners who are
52:41here for genocide and prisoners who are
52:44here for other crimes oh yeah yeah
52:46absolutely he said um actually the ones
52:49who are here for genocide help us
52:52INRI socializing the other prisoners you
52:56see the ones who are here for genocide
52:57they were school teachers they were
52:59lawyers they were you know nurses they
53:04were all kinds of the whole farmers and
53:07carpenters and everyone else and it is
53:11really an interesting subject
53:13so the recidivism among people who
53:16committed genocide
53:17Wailord I'm sorry I don't have the exact
53:20figures but really really low and this
53:22idea that they had of if you'll confess
53:25you can come to this tshh camp this
53:28reinvent yourself camp I will just leave
53:32that that slide on the screen here for
53:35just a little bit longer as we talked
53:37about some of this they they started to
53:40use the teach camp for people other than
53:43those who committed genocide and they
53:45started running into some problems and
53:47they said okay well because the people
53:52who committed genocide is horrific and
53:53heinous as it is they did not have years
53:59at least many of them didn't have years
54:01of violence to their credit they might
54:04have had years of us and them thinking
54:08for some of them but the solution being
54:10violence was it wasn't it and many of
54:13them didn't even have
54:14so much of that us and them thinking the
54:18other part in terms of today here in
54:21America they're pretty small they're
54:25pretty small I would I would say that
54:27and I looked for them newspaper articles
54:29and things like this if I can just take
54:31a moment to say restorative justice as I
54:34understand it and again I'm just a
54:35learner in this area too but it's about
54:38bringing all the voices together and
54:40understanding the harm not blaming
54:43understanding the harm and then looking
54:45for solutions to restore repair that
54:49harm and and it needs all the voices
54:51here in the conversation where as
54:54punitive justice often drives the actual
54:57voices of the those who who did the harm
55:00and those who were harmed to the
55:02periphery and it becomes an argument or
55:05whatever a debate between attorneys and
55:08the judge and and it and then the idea
55:11of punishing somebody I just don't think
55:14you can ever punish anybody enough for
55:18some of the crimes that have been done
55:19that would satisfy I'm not saying they
55:22can't be punished for enough but that
55:23would people would say okay that that
55:24that satisfies it there seems to be an
55:27insatiable appetite for for for a price
55:33when you're looking at this exacting a
55:36price from somebody and in Rwanda the
55:39ultimate price of the death penalty they
55:42said we can't keep doing that they
55:43started it and they stopped quite very
55:45quickly the president traveled around
55:47the country town hall meetings
55:48explaining we can't use the death
55:50penalty this is not going to break the
55:52cycle of violence like we need that
55:55cycle to be broken this is not going to
55:57build a sense of unity and
56:00reconciliation and some people were
56:01really upset as you might imagine my
56:04family was all killed now is the time we
56:06need a death penalty and you're doing
56:07away with it after the genocide so so
56:10restorative justice is often very hard
56:14to define and implement and satisfy all
56:18the different people if it was easy it
56:21would be happening all the time but when
56:22we see it happen we see at work I think
56:25we become I know I have and so
56:28others become believers and it doesn't
56:30have to be just crime restorative
56:32practices in schools not not suspending
56:36and expelling students but finding
56:38solutions within building circles of
56:40community and giving vocabulary before
56:44the problem comes and when the problem
56:46comes we already have a community we
56:48have a vocabulary we have tools in place
56:50to use it so I would I would say maybe
56:53schools would be some of our best places
56:55to see some examples of restorative
56:58practices today in America thank you for
57:04that switching gears a little bit we
57:06have a question from someone who wants
57:08to know if your parents are still with
57:09us and how they've processed all this
57:11she says it must have been so so
57:12difficult to leave their son behind what
57:16would they say to us now about that
57:17experience yeah yeah thank you for
57:20asking about my folks I'll bring back
57:22this picture here what's kind of
57:24interesting is this picture in 1994 of
57:28my mom and dad I'm the same age dad was
57:31it's in 1994 today I'm his age and dad
57:35is still doing well mom passed away a
57:38couple of years ago cancer and you know
57:43this is a really good question that we
57:45could spend a lot of time on this and I
57:47and I talked with both of them quite a
57:49bit like any other tragedy or trauma we
57:55all process differently you know and and
57:58I was just listening to this guy oh boy
58:01what's his name some of you all know it
58:03he worked with Kubla Robert the 7 the 6
58:06stages of grief or death grief anyway
58:10John Oh his name's right on the tip of
58:14my tongue and he was talking about how
58:16how losing a child doesn't break up a
58:19marriage
58:19it's the judging of the way we grieve
58:23according to him that that breaks
58:26relationships apart mom and dad were
58:29able to navigate the different ways that
58:32they processed this in a way that didn't
58:36drive them apart
58:37and I can say the same for Theresa and I
58:40you know we both have processed about
58:43the genocide in different ways and we
58:45learned to allow each other to process
58:48in our own way and not judge oh don't
58:51you care or doesn't this matter I'll
58:52make those judgmental statements so
58:55allowing the space for people to process
58:58this guy if his name's John something
59:01you will comprised in his name to me but
59:03um he also talked about separate support
59:06systems for couples who were going
59:09through trauma that if you try to have
59:11the same support system it was a really
59:14interesting podcast okay the little boy
59:17we're in Texas right now some of you
59:19know brenny Brown she's got a pad gas
59:21called unlocked so you can find that
59:24that interview on her podcast unlocked
59:28Brenda brown I yeah don't get me started
59:30I really appreciate her work okay great
59:36someone has a question did other
59:37countries besides the u.s. try to get
59:39involved in helping during the genocide
59:42okay I'm gonna take this chance to pop a
59:49picture up here for you of the UN
59:53Security Council I as I as I alluded to
59:59in the story I think the United Nations
1:00:01made a great decision to send soldiers
1:00:03to Rwanda at the end of the war stand
1:00:08together with this country the problem
1:00:10was they only seem to have a plan a
1:00:13excuse me didn't have a plan B if things
1:00:16go go bad and and so they're here
1:00:20debating when the genocide starts what
1:00:23to do and the ambassador I believe of
1:00:26Nigeria he said don't withdraw the
1:00:29soldiers he knew that that wherever
1:00:32there were UN soldiers there would be
1:00:33thousands of people that would be there
1:00:36for protection and that's what happened
1:00:38and when the soldiers were withdrawn
1:00:40those people the vast majority of those
1:00:43people were killed it's like that the
1:00:45the genocidaires the people who are
1:00:48perpetrating genocide could say thank
1:00:50you UN you drew people together for us
1:00:52we didn't have to go hunting in the in
1:00:53the
1:00:54Anna plantations are in the ceilings so
1:00:56this story of betrayal comes when the
1:01:00Belgian UN soldiers who were there were
1:01:02strategically the planners of the
1:01:04genocide strategically killed them and
1:01:07then Belgium took the motion to the US
1:01:11this is how the story is told in ghosts
1:01:14of Rwanda and the u.s. used its
1:01:17influence at the Security Council to
1:01:20withdraw the soldiers from Rwanda so
1:01:23when people say did anybody else get
1:01:24involved or besides America America got
1:01:27involved in a good way at the beginning
1:01:29as did the UN in sending soldiers there
1:01:31which I think was the right decision but
1:01:34then we really really really made it
1:01:38unbelievably worse when we voted to take
1:01:42the soldiers away from there and any
1:01:45other country who did something I'm hard
1:01:50put to think of any country I'm sure
1:01:52there must be something out there but
1:01:54from somebody from my vantage point in
1:01:57Kigali throughout the genocide
1:02:00I saw one diplomat from France during
1:02:04that time and of course the French
1:02:05government there's a there's a ton of
1:02:07evidence that has stacked up of the
1:02:09French government's involvement in the
1:02:11genocide not stopping but within that
1:02:14French government there were some I
1:02:16think in every area there were in every
1:02:19government there were voices but those
1:02:21voices just did they were few and far
1:02:23between
1:02:24and I don't know of any of the genocide
1:02:27was started by the extremists and the
1:02:30genocide was ended by the Rwandan
1:02:32Patriotic Front and there was a little
1:02:36bit of aid that would come in a few UN
1:02:39soldiers did stay like maybe 270 and
1:02:42they saved the lives of thousands which
1:02:44makes and I'm not exaggerating that word
1:02:46thousands which makes a very powerful
1:02:49argument for if all 2,500 would have
1:02:54stayed they could have stopped it so I
1:02:55wish I had another country neighboring
1:02:58countries open their borders I mean they
1:03:00didn't stop people from fleeing into
1:03:03their country I suppose that's one level
1:03:04of help but there wasn't
1:03:07I know of yeah thank you also someone
1:03:10trimmed in and said are you thinking of
1:03:12John Babli bow will be that the name
1:03:15they're thinking of the Greek well we
1:03:27think we have time for a couple more
1:03:28questions I actually wanted to start
1:03:29with a comment from one of our staff
1:03:30members who wanted to make sure you knew
1:03:32that Lydia who was in one of the
1:03:34orphanages that you helped protect spoke
1:03:36at our opening last September and said
1:03:38that you were her personal hero so we
1:03:40wanted to make sure that you knew she
1:03:41was with us for that event
1:03:43I watched Lydia Lydia speech online she
1:03:47did an excellent job and it is super
1:03:49rewarding to go back to Rwanda and to
1:03:53meet up this gentleman was just a little
1:03:56kid in the orphanage at the time and now
1:03:59the orphanage has been turned into a
1:04:00school and and and and he teaches music
1:04:04in an after-school program it's it's
1:04:07really exciting to meet the different
1:04:09people and see what they're doing with
1:04:11their lives they so many of the people
1:04:14who survived the genocide have decided
1:04:16not to be defined by what they lost but
1:04:19be defined by what they do with what
1:04:22they still have and there's a lot of
1:04:24inspiring stories so thanks thanks Lydia
1:04:28we have a lot of questions but I think
1:04:30we only have time for a couple more so
1:04:31I'll do I'll do this one someone would
1:04:33like to know if you have any book
1:04:35recommendations I know you have one that
1:04:37you wrote if you want to plug that one
1:04:39one more time but do you have any others
1:04:40that you'd recommend oh well we the top
1:04:45of my list right now for book
1:04:47recommendations for Rwanda is a book
1:04:49called untamed by Selene ruin a zine and
1:04:53you can probably send that out or
1:04:55somebody might be able to put that on
1:04:56the screen or circulate it the reason I
1:04:59really appreciate that book the first
1:05:02half of it talks about her experience as
1:05:05a child during the genocide and then the
1:05:08second half is about healing and and she
1:05:11is so vulnerable she is so articulate
1:05:14she is so passionate in in in in sharing
1:05:18her journey of healing
1:05:21vulnerability we are we some at least
1:05:24are beginning to realize the power in
1:05:27vulnerability and how we realize that
1:05:30hiding these things and and this you
1:05:33know stressing it down and saying just
1:05:34move on and stuff it it doesn't work
1:05:38that way for at least most of us and so
1:05:41I really appreciate her book untamed I
1:05:44think that if somebody wanted to well
1:05:47you mentioned our book I'm not leaving I
1:05:49I did make tapes to my wife during the
1:05:51genocide so we have a little book that
1:05:52that's based on those tapes to my wife
1:05:55and children but another recommendation
1:05:57from that time I would that comes to my
1:06:01mind is Stephen Kinzer boy the name some
1:06:08of these books have long titles the
1:06:10rebuilding of a nation and the men land
1:06:12a Thousand Hills land of a Thousand
1:06:14Hills degree building of a nation and a
1:06:15man who dreamed it look up Stephen
1:06:18Kinzer
1:06:19that book also has a good chunk of it
1:06:23about the recovery story there even
1:06:25though it's several years old it's got a
1:06:27it's got a good yeah please be happy to
1:06:30share Celine's book untamed is just a
1:06:35great it's a short read and it's like i
1:06:38said it's very um it's it's it's one of
1:06:41the one of the best ones it's on the top
1:06:43of my list in terms of understanding
1:06:46some of them 94 i mean it started to
1:06:48tell the whole story
1:06:49but then that journey and afterwards and
1:06:51how do we deal with trauma one of the
1:06:54biggest things that um that is obviously
1:06:56important in my life but i think we
1:06:58learn from there um some of the other
1:07:01books so that you know the good stand by
1:07:04ones philip gore book is another
1:07:07long title name we regret to inform you
1:07:10that tomorrow we will be killed along
1:07:11with our family would be a would be
1:07:14another one a a really interesting piece
1:07:18is on Netflix right now Morgan Freeman
1:07:22and it's it's the series is called a
1:07:25story of us and it's the second episode
1:07:29about 30 minutes in and you'll actually
1:07:32meet Morgan Freeman will meet
1:07:34Maria and Silbert who I mentioned
1:07:36earlier here and and and they get to
1:07:40meet Morgan Freeman but that's that's a
1:07:44really interesting piece to boy in terms
1:07:47of other books right now thanks on this
1:07:56question I think this is a nice one I
1:07:57don't think she'll mind me calling her
1:07:59out by names from Kathleen Cadogan who's
1:08:01a an educator at Thomas Jefferson High
1:08:04School here in Dallas you have visited
1:08:05with her class before and she's honors
1:08:07remember they're sorry to miss you this
1:08:09spring but she asked what message do you
1:08:11have for young people who study the
1:08:13beauty and terror of Rwanda and are
1:08:14looking at the challenges of the world
1:08:16today
1:08:18mhmmm good good good
1:08:22well the story of Rwanda has really
1:08:25motivated many people to to get involved
1:08:29in building a more peaceful world
1:08:33it is really motivated many people into
1:08:36activism and I think the first thing
1:08:39that kind of comes to my mind with
1:08:41activism as I've been involved for quite
1:08:43a few years is how easy it is to burnout
1:08:46and so I think probably one of the first
1:08:48things I would say I don't know where I
1:08:51learned this I've looked all over the
1:08:53internet so I don't take credit for it
1:08:55but the idea is that if we hate evil
1:09:01more than we love beauty we're like on a
1:09:06track for a train wreck for burnout
1:09:08we've got to infect the brain people
1:09:10tell us negative stuff sticks like
1:09:12velcro positive stuff slides off like
1:09:14Teflon we've got to look for the good
1:09:16finding the good when I go to Rwanda
1:09:19with teachers the first day I say look
1:09:21guys we're gonna see stuff that could
1:09:23destroy a person's soul their belief in
1:09:26humanity are like for anything it's
1:09:28horrible and and this evening I didn't
1:09:31go there I definitely gave a light
1:09:33version of a Rwanda story but it could
1:09:37be it can just destroy as you listen to
1:09:39the testimony of survivors and things
1:09:41and so every morning and every evening
1:09:44we have a finding the good session where
1:09:47one each teacher
1:09:48different teacher every morning and
1:09:50every evening leads a conversation what
1:09:52did we see good today what did we see
1:09:54beautiful today and if we have trouble
1:09:57finding the good in situations my little
1:10:02formula is be cool yeah beep Weston and
1:10:11Morial site a really tough one in Rwanda
1:10:13called Morumbi with some students it's a
1:10:15very difficult memorial to site site to
1:10:17visit very graphic and a kid was just
1:10:19feel and he told me later like just
1:10:21crushed underneath it but he said I
1:10:23remembered to be quiet be present be
1:10:27patient and in the quietness I heard a
1:10:31cow and then I heard some kids laughing
1:10:35and then I heard some music on a hill
1:10:38over there to have centering techniques
1:10:43is so important in in dealing with this
1:10:47trauma and and I think we need to
1:10:49understand that the the horrors the
1:10:52graphic nature of the worst often is
1:10:55what people think we need to bring about
1:10:59sustainable change if we can just shock
1:11:01or you know show that will wake them up
1:11:04and they'll change well they can shock
1:11:07and it can wake people up but I don't
1:11:09believe that those prolonged engagement
1:11:12in the horrors is is effective in
1:11:18building sustainable peace we have to
1:11:22know those stories absolutely and we
1:11:25don't cover them no or bury them but
1:11:28really and and that can get our
1:11:30attention at times but what I believe
1:11:33really brings sustainable change is acts
1:11:36of humanity acts of inhumanity in in
1:11:40bulk
1:11:40I've talked to teachers and like the
1:11:42students like please no more this is so
1:11:45this is this is crushing me and and and
1:11:49and I think we've got to we've got to
1:11:52include the stories of humanity in
1:11:54humanity we draw back humanity we draw
1:11:56in and that's why I talk about people
1:11:59like my friend Gus ekwa bringing
1:12:01chickens two killers and stories of
1:12:04Maria stories of people who demonstrate
1:12:08respect empathy and inclusion so thanks
1:12:12for asking that I'm a big believer and
1:12:14finding the good and you know one of my
1:12:17one of the students that um a school
1:12:20that I visited she wrote me a letter and
1:12:22from her letter I did this little this
1:12:25little drawing and I would say that this
1:12:28would be something to not just for high
1:12:29school students but for all of us if you
1:12:32can figure out my code here this is
1:12:34supposed to be a stop sign you know with
1:12:36a line drawn through it and and it
1:12:38represents stop thinking one thing or
1:12:43stop one thing thinking you know when I
1:12:47saw filbert this last summer and I
1:12:50simply got stuck in 1994 I was only
1:12:53thinking about 1994 when Maria looked at
1:12:57filbert she saw a totally different
1:13:00person than the person I saw because she
1:13:04had been through shared experiences with
1:13:06him and she had courageously made the
1:13:08decision to not only accept his apology
1:13:10but also accept his his offers of
1:13:14kindness and as I said even to the level
1:13:17and I don't I'm not saying everybody
1:13:19should do this by any stretch of the
1:13:20imagination but when her daughter got
1:13:22married they didn't just invite filbert
1:13:24to the wedding but they also asked him
1:13:28to be the emcee and I was just like whoa
1:13:31whoa whoa wait a minute Maria and when I
1:13:34got a chance to ask her a question I
1:13:35said Maria didn't that make your family
1:13:38upset when you invited him any other
1:13:40family who had survived and she says
1:13:42yeah but his family was upset when he
1:13:46asked my daughter to be the godmother of
1:13:48his children and and Maria demonstrated
1:13:52the last thing you guys are really
1:13:54humoring me here the last little tool
1:13:57that I'd like to put forth here is is
1:14:00this one of asking myself who's in the
1:14:03center of the universe I said Maria was
1:14:07it your family angry and I had Maria
1:14:09right in the center and she said yeah
1:14:11they were but then Maria very deftly
1:14:14stepped out of the
1:14:15Center and put filbert in the center and
1:14:18said but his family was also upset with
1:14:21him when he asked my daughter to be the
1:14:23godmother
1:14:24I think our ability during this time of
1:14:27the coronavirus and stuff to step out of
1:14:30the center to to step away I should go
1:14:35through this whole thing without
1:14:36mentioning it but to step away from
1:14:38hoarding toilet paper - to actually
1:14:42putting somebody else in the center and
1:14:44you did that at the beginning of this
1:14:45program our Mary Pat mentioned the
1:14:48health care workers right now and what
1:14:50they're doing at this time I think our
1:14:52ability to develop sustainable peace is
1:14:56directly linked to our ability at times
1:14:59there are times we need to be in the
1:15:00senator circle and you could explore um
1:15:03self compassion check out some of
1:15:06Kristen Neffs work about self compassion
1:15:08but but if we spend the majority of our
1:15:11time in the center we're not gonna the
1:15:15empathy will not begin to grow we will
1:15:17not be able to build we won't get
1:15:19through this virus thing in a positive
1:15:22way my hope is we come through this
1:15:24virus thing and these are actually the
1:15:26words of my friend Kiel that we won't
1:15:28come out the other side still thinking
1:15:31the same way and behaving the same way
1:15:33that we went into the virus and to this
1:15:36virus right now and I and I believe that
1:15:39this is for me personally a really
1:15:41effective tool asking myself you know
1:15:44when the guy cuts in front of me on the
1:15:46freeway and I feel my blood pressure
1:15:48race a little bit okay who's in the
1:15:50center maybe he just got a call and his
1:15:51daughter's you know in the hospital so
1:15:54thank you guys so much for your
1:15:56questions those who still have questions
1:15:58um I'm I'm more than happy to respond
1:16:02even if you send an email is it alright
1:16:05if I share my yes all right with me and
1:16:07you just can if you want to share it
1:16:10here or if you if you'd like I can send
1:16:12it send it in an email to everyone who
1:16:14attended is that all right with you okay
1:16:15perfect and I'm happy to put it on the
1:16:18screen here to help there Wilkins at
1:16:21yahoo.com and we can continue the
1:16:23conversation we're looking for ways to
1:16:25continue these conversations we're
1:16:28meeting with students
1:16:29on zoom' and adult groups on zoom' and
1:16:32we want to continue these conversations
1:16:33because we really do believe and this is
1:16:36why an organization like the dallas
1:16:39holocaust and human rights museum is
1:16:42here we learn from the experiences of
1:16:45the past and we and and in Rwanda this
1:16:48case we have so many of the people still
1:16:50with us that we can learn from and so
1:16:53what are these stories from the past how
1:16:56do they inform our thinking and our
1:16:59feelings and our choices today and we
1:17:03want to continue those conversations so
1:17:05I'm looking forward to checking out two
1:17:07more of the resources you guys have on
1:17:09your website there at the Museum and
1:17:12together thanks so much for hosting this
1:17:14thank you so much Carl and thank you
1:17:16everyone for being here
1:17:17I'm thank you for putting your email app
1:17:19we had a lot of questions we couldn't
1:17:21get to and I'm gonna steal that finding
1:17:23the good moment twice a day that sounds
1:17:25like a good thing to do right now so
1:17:26thank you again and thank you to
1:17:28everyone for your patience as we
1:17:30experiment with this new platform we
1:17:31hope you'll join us for some of our
1:17:33other virtual programs coming up and
1:17:35stay in touch and thank you again Carl
1:17:37everyone have a good evening thank you
1:17:38take care stay healthy

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Carl Wilkens - Finding the Good: Rwanda's Pathways Back to Trust by DHHRM, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 12,659 words across 1,773 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.