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Caregiver Reaches Her Breaking Point | Barbara Burns Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00Disclaimer. This video is for commentary
0:02and educational purposes only. All
0:04individuals are presumed innocent until
0:07proven guilty in a court of law. Any
0:09footage used in this video is obtained
0:11through public records and falls under
0:13fair use for the purpose of reporting,
0:15analysis, and public interest.
0:18>> And then after watching TV, what'd you
0:19do then?
0:20>> Just went into the bedroom, just shot
0:23her.
0:24>> On a humid August night in 2004, inside
0:28a quiet St. Petersburg mobile home. The
0:31fragile piece between two sisters came
0:33to a violent end. 40-year-old Debbie
0:35Burns, who lived with a lifelong mental
0:37disability and depended on her older
0:39sister for daily care, had just finished
0:42celebrating her birthday. That night,
0:44she went to bed as she always did,
0:46trusting that Barbara, the sister who
0:49had devoted decades to looking after
0:50her, would be there in the morning. But
0:52Barbara had reached a breaking point. In
0:55the darkness of that bedroom, she stood
0:57over her sister's bed with a revolver in
0:59hand. Debbie never woke up again. For
1:03weeks afterward, neighbors were told
1:04that Debbie had traveled out of state,
1:06that she was caring for relatives, and
1:08that everything inside the trailer was
1:10normal. But the truth was far darker.
1:13Behind closed doors, Barbara lived with
1:15the secret of what she had done, masking
1:17the silence of the home until a moving
1:19crew sent to clear out the foreclosed
1:21property uncovered the horror within.
1:24This is the interrogation of Barbara
1:26Burns.
1:27>> Okay. And uh what state were you born
1:30in?
1:30>> Washington DC.
1:32>> Okay. And just for the
1:38>> And where are you currently living at?
1:40>> I'm living in a shelter on Virginia
1:43Beach.
1:43>> The address
1:44>> 10
1:50Beach, Virginia.
1:52>> Okay. and um Virginia.
1:56>> And where are you currently employed at?
1:58>> I met employed at 7-Eleven.
2:01>> Okay. Where we met you today.
2:03>> Okay. Super. Um and you said you work at
2:077-Eleven for six to seven months.
2:08>> Mhm.
2:09>> When do you think you started working at
2:107-Eleven?
2:10>> Either at the end of October or the
2:12beginning of November. I'm not sure.
2:15>> Of
2:16>> of last year.
2:17>> 2004.
2:18>> Mhm.
2:18>> Okay, perfect. Matter of fact, I didn't
2:20date and time this. Um, this is May 9th,
2:222005, and the time is um 081 11 hours.
2:27Okay. Prior to arriving here in
2:30Virginia, where did you come from?
2:32>> I came from uh California.
2:34>> You came from California.
2:35>> How did you get from California to
2:37Virginia?
2:37>> A bus.
2:38>> A bus?
2:38>> Yeah. Greyhound.
2:39>> A Greyhound. Okay. Out of curiosity,
2:41what that cost?
2:42>> They came to about $500.
2:45>> Wow.
2:46>> Yeah. They wasn't cheap. How long did it
2:48take you? Uh, it took me like a day
2:50about two days.
2:52>> From California to here,
2:54>> I would think. I'm not sure because you
2:56know it's been since October.
2:58>> Okay.
2:59>> And prior to California, where were you?
3:01>> I was in Florida for about a year or
3:03two.
3:03>> Okay.
3:04>> Two years.
3:04>> How'd you get from Florida to
3:06California?
3:06>> I took a bus. Greyhound.
3:08>> Greyhound. Do you remember where from
3:10and
3:11>> um to Hollywood, California? From St.
3:14Petersburg. Yes. From St. Pittsburgh to
3:17Hollywood, California.
3:18>> Okay. And just like here, how long that
3:20take?
3:22>> Uh, now that one took a couple days, I
3:24know.
3:26>> Okay.
3:26>> Yeah, cuz I had to transfer so many
3:28times.
3:29>> Oh, really? Remember how much that cost?
3:31>> Huh?
3:31>> Do you remember how much that cost?
3:33>> No, I can't remember how much that one
3:35cost.
3:36>> Okay. Before the 7-Eleven, what was your
3:38job? Your last job?
3:40>> I worked at Bell's Outlet in St. Pet St.
3:42Petersburg.
3:43>> The Bells Outlet in St. Petersburg,
3:44Florida.
3:45>> Okay.
3:46Um, where give me some addresses that
3:49you lived at. Obviously, we're from
3:50Florida like we told you.
3:51>> Give me some addresses that you've lived
3:53at in Florida.
3:54>> Oh boy.
3:56>> The last one. Start with the last.
3:58>> The last one was in St. Pete Beach, but
4:00I don't know the address. It was like a
4:02um it was like a room, you know, I lived
4:05in. It didn't have an apartment or
4:07anything like that. It was just like in
4:08a room.
4:10>> And you said St. Pete Beach.
4:11>> Mhm.
4:12>> What would it be near? Do you know any
4:13landmarks down there?
4:15No,
4:16I don't know any landmarks. Maybe about
4:19John's Pass, I think it was.
4:21>> That's more like Treasure Island.
4:22>> Oh, okay. Treasure Island.
4:24>> Oh, no. Is that where you live?
4:26>> Yeah, that's where I lived.
4:27>> Okay. How about before that?
4:29>> No, that's California. That and I lived
4:32in Washington.
4:33>> I'm sorry. I've just been in Florida.
4:34>> Oh, in Florida.
4:36>> That's it.
4:37>> Okay.
4:38>> I left Florida to go to uh California.
4:41>> Okay. Um,
4:45so you lived in a room. Do you remember
4:47anything any stores that this room was
4:49near? Any kind of street it was on? Who
4:51did you live with there?
4:54>> Uh, I don't know who I lived with, but
4:56uh, you heard the Hurricane restaurant?
4:58>> Oh, yes. That's St. Pete Beach. That'd
5:00be a huge
5:01>> Not too far from, you know, I took a bus
5:04just to get there
5:05>> to the Hurricane restaurant.
5:06>> Mhm.
5:06>> Okay. Um, like five minute ride,
5:1010-minute ride. It's about 15 to 20
5:12minute ride regular bus.
5:14>> Okay. To get to Hurricane restaurant. Do
5:16you remember the Donses?
5:18>> Oh, yeah. I know the Don Cesar.
5:20>> Did you live near there?
5:21>> No.
5:22>> No.
5:24>> Okay. Cuz that that's all St. Pete Beach
5:26right there.
5:27>> Okay. Um, any other addresses in
5:30Florida?
5:31>> No.
5:31>> That you can remember?
5:32>> No.
5:33>> Okay. Um, and you worked at Bellet. Did
5:36you have any other jobs when you were in
5:37Florida?
5:38>> I worked at Lowe's. at Lowe's. Where was
5:41the Lowe's at?
5:42>> The one in Panellis or County.
5:45>> There's about four in Penel County. Oh,
5:47>> you remember the streets or anything?
5:48>> No.
5:51>> Okay.
5:52Um, let's let's go way back. Let's start
5:56Yeah. Let's go way back. Start with me.
5:58When you you were born in Washington DC,
5:59as we discussed in the car,
6:01>> um, you were in Washington DC. Do you
6:03know what is your parents worked there?
6:04What? Well, my mom and dad uh they died
6:07about uh well my dad worked for the
6:09Washington Post. Okay.
6:11>> At the time and my mom worked in a
6:14restaurant.
6:15>> Okay.
6:15>> But they're both dead now.
6:16>> They're both deceased. And what was your
6:17dad's name?
6:18>> His name is Robert Emtt Burns.
6:23>> When did he die? He died in 1968.
6:27>> Wow. You were young then?
6:28>> Mhm.
6:30>> I was going to be 16.
6:32>> Oh, I'm sorry.
6:33>> Yeah. Me too.
6:35>> How about your mom? Her name
6:36>> Her name is Margaret Burns.
6:42>> And she passed away.
6:43>> She passed away about five years ago.
6:47>> So the year 2000?
6:49>> Yeah.
6:50>> Do you know where your dad passed away
6:52at? I know it was 58, but it was
6:55>> Yeah. Maryland.
6:56>> Maryland. That's where I was raised in
6:59Maryland.
7:00>> So you consider Maryland your home?
7:02>> Yeah.
7:02>> Okay. Yeah, I know the address to that
7:04one.
7:15>> Road. That's a house.
7:17>> Okay.
7:17>> I was born.
7:18>> Okay.
7:19>> You know, raised in.
7:20>> Yeah.
7:20>> Does someone still live in there family
7:21wise or you remember the address? That's
7:23pretty.
7:27>> What city, Maryland?
7:28>> Hyville. Prince George's County.
7:31>> Hiville.
7:40Um, where did you go to school at?
7:43>> I went to school, let's see, which which
7:47one? Very young.
7:48>> Start me from what you remember all the
7:50way through.
7:50>> Langley Park
7:52>> Elementary.
7:52>> Mhm.
7:53>> Okay. Is that in Maryland?
7:54>> Yeah, that's in Maryland. Then I went to
7:57Chill Heights. That was in Maryland.
8:01And um
8:04this is going to get me. I didn't
8:05graduate.
8:06>> That's all right.
8:08>> But I told everybody else I graduated.
8:10>> What's the highest grade you completed?
8:11>> Uh ninth.
8:14>> Okay.
8:15>> You could read and write.
8:16>> Oh, yeah. I can read.
8:18>> I mean, I'm not trying to make sure.
8:19>> Yeah.
8:19>> Yeah. I can read and write.
8:20>> So, ninth grade. And then what happened
8:22after that? What did you do after ninth
8:24grade?
8:25>> Well, stayed home. I couldn't get a job
8:28anywhere in Maryland. They weren't
8:29hired. So
8:32I decided to leave,
8:34>> I guess, with my mom.
8:35>> With your mom.
8:36>> Mhm.
8:37>> Where'd you guys go?
8:38>> We went to um we went to uh St. Pete for
8:42a little while.
8:43>> St Florida.
8:44>> Mhm. Then we went to California. That's
8:46where she died
8:47>> in California.
8:49>> How'd she die?
8:50>> She had Alzheimer's.
8:52>> Oh.
8:52>> My dad died of three heart attacks.
8:55>> Wow.
8:56>> He was a diabetic.
8:57>> He wouldn't take care of himself. You
8:59have to, don't you? Hold that.
9:02>> I'm borderline. So,
9:04>> okay.
9:05>> I got to take it easy.
9:06>> Now, when your mom had Alzheimer's, was
9:08it so bad that you couldn't you couldn't
9:10care?
9:11>> You couldn't care. Okay.
9:12>> No, I helped her in the home.
9:13>> Oh, okay.
9:15>> Did you have any help with that or
9:18>> um No, just social security. You know,
9:20they took the money and all that from
9:23her.
9:23>> Oh, okay.
9:25>> Okay. Um, do you have any siblings? No,
9:29>> no,
9:29>> just me.
9:30>> Just you.
9:31>> You were getting no help then?
9:32>> No.
9:35>> So, just you and your mom that moved to
9:36Florida?
9:37>> What did your mom do for a living?
9:39>> She worked in a restaurant.
9:41>> Remember which one?
9:42>> You remember People's?
9:45Years. We're talking years.
9:48>> People's restaurant.
9:49>> Well, it was People's Drugstore.
9:51>> Oh, no.
9:52>> In St. Pete?
9:54>> No, it was in Chillum. No, my mom
9:56couldn't work anymore.
9:58>> When you guys moved to St. Pete?
9:59>> Yeah, cuz she broke her hip or something
10:01like that. She hurt herself so bad she
10:03couldn't work.
10:04>> What year do you think you moved to St.
10:05Peter?
10:06>> What year?
10:07>> Yeah.
10:09>> I don't know.
10:10>> Do you remember how old you were born?
10:13>> No.
10:13>> No. Okay.
10:15>> No. I'm going to be 54. So,
10:18>> okay.
10:19>> So, I don't know for sure.
10:22>> Okay. Now, you say you're borderline
10:23diabetic.
10:24>> Mhm. I know you got a bad knee cuz I got
10:26a bad knee. And you have foot problems.
10:29>> Yeah, both of them.
10:30>> Arthritis in both.
10:33>> Okay. Are you anti- disability?
10:35>> No.
10:35>> No disability. Never been diagnosed?
10:38>> No.
10:40>> You receive social security for any
10:42reason?
10:42>> No.
10:50>> I don't know why I skip over things. I'm
10:51sorry. And I apologize for asking this
10:53question. I need your height and weight.
10:55>> Okay. I'm 5'3.
10:57>> Mhm.
10:57>> I think I weigh 195. I'm not sure.
11:01>> Okay. And your hair?
11:02>> It's really brown, but I just highlight
11:05it.
11:06>> Looks blonde to me. Okay.
11:07>> That's blonde, but it's really brown.
11:10>> And your eye color?
11:11>> Blue. Sometimes it gets dark.
11:14>> Okay. Are you left-handed or
11:15right-handed?
11:16>> I'm right-handed all the way.
11:19>> Any scars, marks, or tattoos? Just um
11:23just my knee. I got my ears pierced.
11:26>> Okay. On your right knee?
11:28>> Mhm. My right knee. That's about it.
11:31Maybe some cups and scrapes, but that's
11:32it.
11:33>> Okay. Um you wear dentures or anything
11:35like that?
11:36>> Yeah.
11:37>> Okay.
11:37>> You could tell.
11:38>> No. Standard questions that I
11:42>> uppers, lowers.
11:43>> Both, but I don't have my bottom, so
11:45it's hard for me to keep them in.
11:46>> Okay.
11:47>> So, I got my tops.
11:48>> Okay. So, you have upper and lower
11:50dentures. Mhm.
11:58>> Um,
12:00going back to So you guys when you guys
12:02moved to St. Petersburg, Florida the
12:03first time
12:04>> you were How old do you think?
12:08>> I don't know. I know I was way over 20.
12:11I know that. Maybe about 30s, I think.
12:15>> Okay.
12:15>> Somewhere around there.
12:17>> When you moved to Florida, what what job
12:18did you take? How'd you support you and
12:20your mom?
12:21>> Well, um, at the time I worked in a
12:23restaurant.
12:24>> Do you remember what one?
12:26>> No, I don't remember. I don't know which
12:28one it was. It's It's not existing
12:31anymore.
12:32>> Okay.
12:32>> They bankrupt or something like that. I
12:35don't know.
12:36>> Okay. And And you stayed in Florida how
12:38long do you think that time?
12:39>> But we stayed there about three years at
12:43that time.
12:43>> Do you remember where?
12:45>> Um,
12:47let's see.
12:49Where did we live? On Central Avenue,
12:52but I don't know the address.
12:54>> In St. Petersburg. I mean, you're in
12:55downtown St. Peters. You're on Central
12:56Avenue. Unless you were out by Treasure
12:58Island.
12:59>> No, we lived in a apartment at the time,
13:02just her and I.
13:03>> Okay. Would um
13:08>> would you say that you're Florida living
13:10in Florida would would be limited to
13:12Penelis County?
13:14>> Did you live anywhere else in Florida?
13:15>> No. No, you didn't live anywhere else or
13:18no, you wouldn't say. Sorry. I have two
13:20questions.
13:22>> No, Florida was the only place I lived
13:24for a little while, you know, for that
13:26three years that my mom and I lived in
13:29>> that area.
13:29>> Yeah, that area.
13:30>> Okay. And then you went out to
13:32California with your mom.
13:33>> Mhm.
13:34>> And that's where she passed away.
13:35>> Right.
13:36>> Okay. What did you do in California?
13:38>> Well, I didn't mainly did nothing really
13:40because it was hard to find a job there,
13:42too. Everywhere I went, it was hard to
13:44find a job. So, I actually didn't do
13:47anything,
13:49tell you the truth.
13:51>> Okay.
13:52Um, and I'm not being I'm just How do
13:54you support yourself if you're not
13:56working?
13:57>> Well, I I stayed with a guy at the time.
14:00I can't say his name because I don't
14:02remember it too much, you know. That's
14:05about it.
14:06>> In California.
14:07>> Mhm.
14:07>> Okay. Um, and I I noticed your last name
14:10is Bernie and your parents. Have you
14:11ever been married?
14:12>> No.
14:13>> Never married. Do you have any children?
14:14>> No.
14:17Do you have any relatives?
14:18>> No.
14:19>> No relatives at all?
14:20>> No. None at all.
14:23>> Okay. Um,
14:25going to the shelter that you live in
14:27now.
14:28>> Mhm.
14:28>> Is it a single room? Isn't there by
14:30yourself?
14:31>> No, there's a whole bunch of girls
14:32>> in the same room.
14:33>> But in in the whole dorm, we have rooms
14:37for ourselves, you know, but like we get
14:39roommates like certain beds. Certain
14:42rooms have certain beds. I have I'm in a
14:45room with two beds and there's a room
14:47with four beds, stuff like that.
14:49>> Do you have anybody that you consider
14:50your friend? Close friends?
14:52>> Valerie.
14:52>> Valerie.
14:53>> She's my roommate.
14:55>> Valerie's Do you know her last name?
14:57>> No, I don't know her last name. We don't
14:59go by last name.
15:01>> Oh, you don't?
15:03>> Is that like a house rule or
15:04>> No,
15:06we never asked.
15:07>> Okay. Is Mallerie White black?
15:09>> She's black.
15:09>> She's black female. Do you know where
15:10she works?
15:11>> No, I don't.
15:14Okay. She close to your age. You guys
15:15have stuff in common or
15:17>> Well, she's um mainly to herself like I
15:20am.
15:21>> I'm mainly to myself.
15:25>> Barbara, um bank accounts. You have any
15:27bank accounts?
15:28>> I have a checking and savings.
15:30>> Checking and savings because you have to
15:31have one to stay there.
15:33>> Well, yeah. That way they can check see
15:36how much you make. Okay.
15:38>> Who Who do you have your checking
15:39account with?
15:40>> Uh Bank America.
15:45And you have a savings account with
15:48>> Bank of America.
15:48>> Bank of America.
15:51>> Yeah.
15:52>> In case I overdraw, they take it from
15:53the
15:54>> Oh, that was a good thing.
15:56>> Do you own any property?
15:58>> No.
15:58>> You don't own any property?
16:00>> Yeah.
16:04>> Anywhere?
16:05>> Okay. Have you ever purchased a a
16:07residence, a car, credit cards, anything
16:10like about a car at one time, but
16:12>> Okay.
16:13>> It was a old car.
16:16>> Okay. Okay. You owned a car. What kind
16:18of car do you own?
16:19>> That was a 1998 uh Dodge Caravan, I
16:23think it was.
16:26>> Color
16:27>> tan. I think it was.
16:29>> Okay. What happened to that vehicle?
16:30>> It died on me.
16:32>> 1998.
16:33>> Yeah. At least seven years.
16:35>> I know, but it died. It was everything
16:37wrong with it.
16:39>> Okay.
16:41Where did I die at? Where where's the
16:43vehicle now?
16:43>> Well, I buried it at the Greyhound.
16:46>> I left it there. Oh,
16:47>> you left at the Greyhound
16:48>> in California?
16:49>> No, in um St. Petersburg.
16:52>> In St. Petersburg.
16:53>> Okay.
16:58>> The Greyhound, uh the downtown bus
17:00station in the southside there.
17:02>> Yeah.
17:03>> Okay. Um, in your last job in Florida
17:06that you recollect was
17:08>> Bell's Outlet.
17:09>> Bell's Outlet.
17:11You remember who you uh who you reported
17:13to?
17:14>> Uh, her name was uh Linda Wear, but she
17:17don't work there no more.
17:18>> She don't work anymore.
17:18>> She quit or either got fired.
17:20>> Oh, okay.
17:21>> She was manager.
17:23>> What was your title there?
17:24>> I was a supervisor at the time.
17:27>> Why'd you leave that job?
17:29>> Well, because to me, they were stealing
17:32money from me. You know, they were
17:34docking my hours of work.
17:37>> Wow.
17:37>> And lying about it. That's why I left.
17:41>> Okay.
17:42>> And when you left, then where'd you go?
17:45>> Went to Lowe's.
17:46>> Oh, so Lowe's was your
17:48>> my last
17:49>> your last job that you remember was
17:51Lowe's. Okay. So, you went to Lowe's,
17:52>> but I just don't know the address.
17:54>> Yeah, that's okay. We'll figure it out.
17:55There's only like four. Penellis. It
17:57wasn't Penllis.
17:58>> Okay. Um, the Bell Outlet, you said they
18:02were cutting your hours back.
18:03>> Yeah. Well, not only that, you know, I
18:06work 40 hours, sometimes overtime, but
18:08they would change it to like 39 hours.
18:12>> Oh, I see. Okay.
18:13>> But that's supposed to be against the
18:14law, isn't it?
18:15>> Yeah. If you work it, you should get
18:16paid for it.
18:17>> Mhm.
18:18>> I have to agree with that. Okay. Um, and
18:20then you went to Lowe's. What did you do
18:22at Lowe's?
18:23>> I was a cashier.
18:24>> You're a cashier. You remember your boss
18:25there?
18:27>> She's gone now. I can't. Her name is
18:29Kathy, but that's the only thing I know.
18:33>> Kathy, but she
18:34>> she left.
18:35>> Was she know her title?
18:36>> She was a manager.
18:38>> White girl or black girl?
18:39>> White.
18:41>> Okay. Um, would you have any friends
18:44there at Lowe's?
18:45>> No.
18:46>> No.
18:47>> Yeah.
18:48>> And
18:49>> it's hard for me to make friends.
18:50>> I don't understand that.
18:52>> Me neither. I guess some people like me,
18:54some people don't. You know, I'm always,
18:56you know, quiet type. Yeah, but you've
18:58been very nice to us.
19:00>> I try.
19:04>> Um, so Kathy was the manager.
19:07>> What was by this Lowe's? Maybe we can
19:09track it down that way. You know how
19:11sometimes
19:12>> a Publix?
19:12>> A Publix. Okay.
19:14>> How close to Lowe's was the Publix?
19:16>> How close? It was like next door.
19:18>> It was like in a plaza
19:19>> park in Belchure.
19:22>> Belchure.
19:22>> Yeah, Belchure.
19:23>> Cuz it's a brand new Publix.
19:24>> Okay.
19:24>> There was a Pizza Hut out front.
19:26>> Yeah. Mhm.
19:28>> Now, where
19:29>> Long John Silvers?
19:30>> I love their chicken. They got good
19:33chicken. Okay. Um,
19:36>> where did you live at when when you were
19:38working at Lowe's?
19:39>> Where was I living? I was living in
19:42Central Avenue.
19:47>> Yeah, I took the bus out there.
19:50>> Okay. City bus. PSTA.
19:53>> Yeah.
19:55>> City bus. See,
19:58>> had to take a couple of them just to get
20:00there.
20:00>> I bet.
20:01>> And And why'd you quit Lowe's?
20:04>> Because uh I felt like they weren't
20:07treating me right, you know, cuz they
20:09left. I was the only cashier and stuff
20:12like that. And you know, when you have
20:14to go to the bathroom, they didn't
20:15excuse you. They didn't have somebody to
20:18say, "Okay, you can go."
20:19>> Okay.
20:20>> Stuff like that.
20:21>> Okay. Feel like you're like overworked.
20:23>> Yeah.
20:23>> Okay.
20:25After you left Lowe's, what'd you do?
20:27>> That's when we went out to California.
20:29Okay.
20:32>> Who's we?
20:33>> My mom and I. That's You know when she
20:36died in California? We left there
20:38together.
20:39>> You left there together.
20:40>> Mhm.
20:41>> You told me your mom died in 2000.
20:43>> Oh, that's right. Sorry.
20:46>> Yeah, you're right. 2000. It was just
20:48me.
20:49>> It was just you.
20:50>> Just me.
20:51>> Okay. Yeah. You said we went out to
20:52California.
20:52>> I meant to say me. Okay, that happens.
20:55Sorry.
20:56>> Nervous.
20:58>> No reason to be nervous.
21:00>> We're good people.
21:01>> I know you.
21:02>> Okay. This is painless.
21:04>> Okay. So, you went to California?
21:06>> Yes, I did.
21:06>> And how did you get to California?
21:08>> That time.
21:08>> Took a bus.
21:09>> You took a bus. Is that when you parked
21:10your Dodge Caravan?
21:11>> Yeah.
21:12>> At the bus station.
21:13>> Mhm.
21:14>> Okay. They took a bus out to California.
21:15>> Right.
21:16>> Where did you go when you got to
21:17California? Well, I went to Hollywood,
21:20but um
21:22I hang out mostly in the streets, mostly
21:25like a homeless person, but I did have a
21:28place. I finally found a place, though.
21:31So, it was like a a room.
21:33>> Now, Barbara, I don't mean to I'm not
21:35You don't seem like a homeless person to
21:37me.
21:37>> I know a lot of people say that, you
21:39know, because I don't you know, I'm
21:42trying to stay clean.
21:44>> Well, not only clean, he seems so
21:46together though.
21:47>> Yeah. like I mean you work hard and
21:49>> you've you're forcing me to ask this
21:51question and I'm you know I apologize
21:52right up front. Um do you use narcotics?
21:56>> No.
21:57>> Okay. You didn't to me you don't seem
21:58like that person but then you tell me
21:59you're homeless and then I associate.
22:01How about alcohol?
22:02>> I drink sometimes.
22:04>> Like how would you classify that?
22:07>> Like
22:07>> rarely.
22:08>> Rarely. Okay. And when you drink, do you
22:10drink to be intoxicated?
22:11>> Sometimes.
22:12>> Okay.
22:13>> Sometimes way overboard. When do you
22:15think the last time was that you
22:16actually drank and got drunk?
22:20>> I would say probably about
22:24>> about eight months ago. No, about
22:27>> five months ago.
22:28>> Where were you at?
22:29>> Five. Here
22:30>> in Virginia.
22:31>> Mhm.
22:31>> Before I went
22:32>> only because you get so over so many
22:33places I have to I know I have to go.
22:35When you say here, I got to say where's
22:36here? I'm trying to keep Okay. In
22:39Virginia cuz So by no means would you
22:41consider yourself an alcoholic.
22:43>> No. Nor would I, you know, point that
22:45out to you. And when when I think of
22:47homeless, that's what I associate with
22:49homeless.
22:49>> Oh, I see.
22:50>> And that's why you said living on the
22:52streets in California. That's not easy.
22:54>> No. Okay.
22:56>> It's not.
22:57>> Okay. Did you have any jobs in
22:58California?
22:59>> No.
23:01>> Let's try to figure out when did you
23:03leave Lowe's? Datewise.
23:05>> Date wise.
23:06>> Let's start with the year.
23:08>> God, I don't remember the year.
23:12Jeez,
23:14>> it's been a while.
23:16>> Like a while. Like 2000 or 2004? Was it
23:19last year?
23:20>> I would say maybe about
23:242001, I think it was. I'm not sure.
23:27>> When you left Lowe's.
23:28>> Okay. Have you
23:31Well, it could have been 2001 because
23:33your van was a 98. That thing died on
23:36you.
23:36>> Yeah, I know.
23:37>> It would only been three years old.
23:38>> Yeah, I know. But I didn't buy it brand
23:40new. bought it used,
23:42>> right? But a three-year-old vehicle.
23:44>> Yeah, but like I said, had everything
23:46wrong with it.
23:47>> That's okay. That sucks.
23:49>> Yeah,
23:50>> I understand that. Okay, so when you
23:53left, you think you left in 2001
23:55>> from St. Petersburg, Florida to
23:57California to Hollywood. And how long
24:00did you stay in California?
24:01>> I say about eight years.
24:04>> No,
24:04>> could have been a year.
24:06>> Couldn't be cuz this is what 2000. So,
24:10see one, two, three, four, five, six.
24:14>> I'm way ahead. Okay. One, two, three,
24:16four. I'd say about three or four years
24:18then.
24:19>> Three or four years.
24:20>> Okay.
24:21>> Cuz you know, cuz I move around a lot
24:22and it's hard to say, you know, how long
24:25I've been.
24:26>> Sure. And that's why I think you're
24:28going to have to do this timeline. So,
24:302001, you're in California.
24:32>> Mhm.
24:33>> And you stay there for
24:34>> about three or four years,
24:36>> which would put us at 2004 or 2005. But
24:39it can't be 2005 because you've been
24:40here since October.
24:42>> Mhm. Of 2004.
24:44>> 2004. Okay. Um,
24:48what jobs did you have in California for
24:50that? It would have been a three-year
24:51period.
24:51>> Mhm.
24:52>> Well, I can't regulate what kind of jobs
24:56I have, you know, cuz
24:59I don't remember.
25:01>> Okay.
25:06>> That happens. Um, what caused you to go
25:09from California to Virginia?
25:11>> Well, since I was born Washington from
25:13DC, I thought I I always liked Virginia
25:15Beach.
25:16>> I do understand that it is pretty.
25:18>> I decided to come here.
25:19>> Okay.
25:21Um, so you came here.
25:25Did you have the Bank of America account
25:26when you were in California?
25:27>> No.
25:28>> Did you open that here?
25:29>> Yeah, I opened it here.
25:31>> Here being Virginia Beach, right?
25:32Virginia Beach. Sorry.
25:34>> I have to say. Yeah. I forgive myself.
25:41Now, when you move all this, do you do
25:43you have property that you're leaving
25:44behind or just
25:46>> bring with you? I mean,
25:48>> no, just my suitcases and my clothes and
25:50that's it.
25:51>> Okay. I think it'd be hard to travel
25:54with, you know,
25:56>> it would be.
25:56>> Yeah.
25:57>> Let's talk about what you own right now.
25:59>> Okay. My clothes.
26:00>> Yeah.
26:01>> That's it.
26:02>> You got clothes?
26:03>> Okay.
26:03>> At the shelter.
26:05>> Okay. Anything else like photographs?
26:08>> No, I don't have any photos. No photos.
26:11>> Not at all. No.
26:14>> Anything like that your mom took of you?
26:16>> No.
26:17>> Nothing? Nope.
26:18>> I noticed you wear like some jewelry
26:19that anything from your mom or
26:21>> No.
26:21>> No.
26:22>> Nope. My mom never wore jewelry.
26:24>> Okay.
26:24>> Never.
26:27>> So, just the clothes. How much clothes
26:29do you think you have?
26:31>> About two suitcases.
26:34You know, girls got to be a girl.
26:36>> I understand.
26:40Um,
26:45so you left St. Pete in 2001,
26:48went to California, and then maybe Well,
26:51we know October 2004 you came to
26:53Virginia Beach,
26:53>> and you've been living here ever since.
26:55>> You're right.
26:56>> Outstanding.
27:01I'm confused because I thought in the
27:02car you said your last place is Florida
27:05and then you came up here from Florida.
27:07Is that what I said?
27:09>> I think I understand that.
27:10>> Okay. You're kind of like a nomad. I
27:12don't mean that.
27:14>> You like to travel.
27:15>> Yeah, I love to travel.
27:17>> Okay.
27:22>> I wrote down lived in Florida for about
27:23two years and I came up here.
27:25>> That's what I Okay. We were just
27:28mistaken.
27:29>> Yeah.
27:30>> Um, we've been in here for now for 30
27:33minutes, you think?
27:34>> That seem fair.
27:35>> Yeah, seems fair.
27:37>> Okay.
27:38You haven't even asked us why we're
27:40here.
27:40>> I did. I asked her.
27:42>> Oh, you did?
27:42>> Mhm. She's away for you and you explain.
27:46>> Okay.
27:47Why do you think we're here talking to
27:48you?
27:49>> I don't know. I have no idea.
27:53>> Okay. Have you ever been arrested in
27:56your entire life?
27:57Never in my whole life.
28:08>> You going to tell me?
28:09>> Well, yes, I'm going to tell you. I'm
28:11just trying to figure out uh
28:15Well, let me know.
28:24Now, we did talk about you said you
28:26never got any tickets, right? Remember
28:29that? We're in your car. We're talking
28:30about traffic tickets, right?
28:32>> Yeah. Talking about traffic tickets.
28:33>> Okay. You said you never any traffic
28:35tickets in your life?
28:35>> No.
28:36>> Okay. Um, just looking in Penelis County
28:40traffic tickets. I found four. Were
28:43>> Yes, ma'am. In the years of 1987, 1988,
28:461989. Now, your mom, she would have been
28:50alive then, right? Because she passed
28:53away in 2000. Mhm.
28:54>> Okay. Um, but you know, I got all these
28:58uh tickets right here. Now, what I'd
29:00like to do, I'd like to show you a DL
29:02photograph. Make sure
29:04>> DL
29:05>> driver license.
29:06>> Oh,
29:07>> driver license.
29:14>> That is you. Is that correct?
29:16>> Oh, yeah. That's me.
29:18>> Okay. Um, do you see this address?
29:22>> Not without my glasses. How about if I
29:24read it to you? Okay. Would that help?
29:25You have your glasses with you?
29:26>> No, they're in the
29:27>> in that black bag. I didn't even look in
29:28there yet. Okay.
29:33>> St. Petersburg, Florida.
29:35>> Mhm.
29:35>> Do you remember that address?
29:37>> Yeah, I remember. I was there for like
29:39maybe a couple days, but that's it.
29:41>> Couple days. That was it. Okay.
29:44>> I was staying with a friend.
29:46>> Who were you staying with?
29:47>> Um I think her name was Cindy.
29:51>> Cindy?
29:52>> I wasn't sure. I think her name is
29:54Cindy.
29:54>> Okay.
29:56And do you know Cindy's last name?
29:58>> Cindy? No, I don't.
30:02>> Okay. White girl, black girl.
30:03>> She was black.
30:05>> Whose house was that?
30:08>> I don't know. Cindy said that it was a
30:10resident, but she never said and I never
30:13saw the person.
30:15>> Okay.
30:15>> All right. Well, we're going to come
30:16back to Cindy in a minute. In 1993, I
30:19know that's how many years ago is that?
30:21A long time.
30:22>> Yeah, I know. How many?
30:24>> I don't know.
30:25>> 12 years,
30:26>> maybe.
30:27>> Okay. Little 93 from 2005. 12 years.
30:32>> Do you remember making a police report
30:33with the Pan County Sheriff's Office?
30:35>> No.
30:36>> Have you ever made any police reports at
30:37the Pen County Sheriff's Office?
30:39>> No.
30:39>> How about any law enforcement? Have you
30:42ever been in contact with police before?
30:44>> No. Only at work.
30:46>> At work where?
30:46>> At Virginia Beach.
30:48>> Where? At 71. How how'd you come in
30:50contact with?
30:51>> I I had to call them because uh there
30:53was somebody hanging around the store.
30:56>> Okay,
30:56>> that's about it.
30:58>> Okay. Do you remember the name Steven
31:00Lodge?
31:02>> No.
31:03>> Margaret Burns.
31:05>> My mom.
31:05>> That's your mom. She was born her
31:08birthday.
31:09>> I think it was March 24th.
31:12>> What year?
31:14>> 46 I think. No, 28.
31:18>> 1927. 27.
31:20>> Yeah,
31:20>> she told me 28.
31:22>> Well, it happened. Um, Margaret Burns
31:25contacted the county sheriff's office.
31:27It shows here that you guys were living
31:29down on a road called um, hang on. Let
31:32me Grailia.
31:34>> Grill.
31:34>> Grailla. That's it. You remember that
31:36one?
31:36>> Yeah, I remember that one.
31:37>> That was in Pasadena.
31:39>> Mhm.
31:39>> South Pasadena, which is really close to
31:41St. Pete Beach,
31:42>> right?
31:43>> But this is in 1993, so it doesn't
31:44really fall into the timeline, but we
31:47know that this happened. Um because
31:49Margaret Burns contacted Pon County
31:51Sheriff's Office reference to a Metife
31:53insurance salesman, Steven Lodge. Does
31:55that ring a bell?
31:56>> No.
31:57>> No.
32:02>> When you worked at Bell, do you remember
32:03contacting law enforcement?
32:06>> Yeah. For a a robbery when a guy was
32:08stealing something and that's when I
32:10broke my wrist.
32:11>> The shoplifters.
32:12>> Yeah, the shoplifter. Okay. Um matter of
32:15fact, I read that report. So, we knew
32:18about this. Um,
32:22are you as we're sitting here talking,
32:24um, are you remembering more things? Are
32:27you a forgetful person or are you
32:29>> I'm very forgetful.
32:30>> Okay. So, it's not like you're trying
32:31not to tell me the truth.
32:32>> Right. I'm very forgetful.
32:34>> Okay.
32:37>> Is it possible that you would forget
32:38that you have relatives?
32:40>> No.
32:41>> No. You would know if you had relatives,
32:42right?
32:42>> Mhm.
32:44I know that sounded like a smart ad, but
32:45I wasn't being a smart ass.
32:46>> I know.
32:48>> Okay.
32:51>> And you've never purchased any property
32:53in your life?
32:54>> No.
32:54>> Like a house, a residence?
32:57>> Let's go back to Yellow Pine.
32:59>> That describe what that was to me. What
33:01do you remember?
33:02>> I don't know. It was like a
33:13I think it was
33:14>> a trailer like a kind you pull behind a
33:16car.
33:16>> No, it's more like a planted
33:18>> like a mobile home, manufactured home.
33:20Okay. Remember how many bedrooms it had?
33:24>> I think it had two or three. I'm not
33:25sure.
33:26>> Okay. Describe it to me if I was looking
33:28at it from the street.
33:30>> Can you describe it to me?
33:32>> No,
33:33>> you can't.
33:33>> I couldn't.
33:34>> Can you remember anything about it?
33:37>> No. Well, let's start off simple. Was it
33:38a one-story or two story?
33:40>> It was one.
33:41>> Okay. Did it have a driveway?
33:43>> Yeah, had a driveway.
33:45>> Okay.
33:46>> I think
33:47>> How did you get into the residence?
33:49>> Yeah, I think you have to you have to
33:51open the screen door to go inside.
33:52>> So, the screened in portion.
33:55>> Yeah.
33:55>> Okay. And you remember steps?
33:57>> Yeah, a couple.
33:58>> Okay. If you were looking dead straight
34:00at it, would the door be to the left,
34:01the right, or in the middle?
34:04I
34:04>> think it would be in the middle. I'm not
34:06sure.
34:08Was there anything else getting up to
34:09the door that you can remember?
34:11>> No.
34:12>> Okay. And then when you entered the
34:13residence through that door, what did
34:15you come to?
34:16>> I think it was a living room. I'm not
34:18sure.
34:20>> Or the kitchen.
34:21>> I think it was the kitchen.
34:22>> That was in the kitchen. Okay.
34:24>> And when you when you lived there, where
34:26was your room at?
34:28>> Was far back.
34:30>> It was straight in the back.
34:31>> Straight in the back. Where was Cindy's
34:33room? She
34:34>> hers was on to the right.
34:38Okay.
34:39>> And how long do you think you lived
34:40there for?
34:42>> I was there for like maybe a couple days
34:43and that's it.
34:45>> How many is a couple of days to you?
34:47>> Maybe about a week.
34:49>> Five days. Seven days.
34:50>> Five days.
34:52>> Did you
34:52>> I didn't stay there that long.
34:55>> You didn't?
34:57>> Did you um
35:00meet anyone there other than Cindy?
35:03>> No.
35:03>> So, it was just you and Cindy. Did city
35:06own the house?
35:07>> I guess. I don't know. She didn't say. I
35:10We didn't get to know each other that
35:12well.
35:13>> Okay. Um,
35:19>> and where were you working at this time?
35:21>> Where was I working? I was working at um
35:26Lowe's, I think it was. I'm not sure.
35:28Either Bell's Outlet or Lowe's. One of
35:29those.
35:30>> Would be real close to there. You worked
35:31at Bell's Outlet in Pasadena, right?
35:33>> That'd be far. Yeah,
35:35>> that'd be a good good idea.
35:36>> Okay.
35:37>> How did you meet Cindy?
35:39>> Um, I met her at work when she was she's
35:43a customer. We got to talking.
35:46>> So, you know,
35:46>> you think it was at Lowe's or both?
35:48>> It was at Lowe's.
35:50>> Okay.
35:50>> And then she invited you to stay over
35:51there.
35:52>> Yes.
35:52>> Did you have to pay her rent?
35:54>> I paid her maybe $100.
35:57>> Maybe $100.
35:58>> Yeah. I'm not sure exactly how much.
36:01>> Okay.
36:03Um,
36:06>> you were there for seven days. Remember
36:09what year?
36:10>> No, I don't.
36:15>> Did you ever meet any of the neighbors?
36:19>> Not really. Maybe I saw a lady, but I
36:22don't know her name.
36:24>> What lady look like?
36:26>> Kind of older lady.
36:29>> I meant that. What would you say your
36:30relationship and Cindy's relationship
36:32was?
36:33>> Just friends.
36:34>> Okay.
36:35>> Not not romantic friends, anything like
36:38that. Just Okay. And I'm sorry to ask,
36:39but I don't know in a day and age.
36:41>> Yeah, I know. Girl,
36:43>> I like menth.
36:46>> That makes one of us.
36:48>> Um, okay. Here's a problem I'm having.
36:51As I'm looking through, do you know what
36:52autotrack is?
36:53>> No.
36:54>> Okay. Autotrack is just a compilation of
36:56public records. Okay. And you're Barbara
37:00A. Burns and you're born 64 1951.
37:10>> It's showing that you actually own the
37:12residence.
37:18>> Oh, yeah.
37:19>> Mhm.
37:21>> That's new to me.
37:22>> That's new to you.
37:24Would be nice if somebody would tell you
37:25when you own something, huh? Yeah.
37:29>> Okay. Um, it also shows me that uh that
37:34you owned a vehicle in here. Now, you
37:37said it was a 1998 Dodge Caravan, right?
37:40It shows in here that it's a 93. That
37:43just be a
37:43>> Oh, a 93.
37:45>> Does that sound right?
37:46>> I guess they told me it was a 98.
37:50>> Where'd you buy it at?
37:51>> I bought it at um Panelis um auto
37:55brokers.
37:56Oh, you remember that?
37:58>> Huh?
37:58>> You know that
37:59>> it's in here?
38:00>> Oh,
38:00>> I'm not that smart, but you know, it's
38:02right It's right here in front of me.
38:03>> Um, that vehicle was repossessed.
38:05>> Yeah.
38:06>> Yeah. They repossessed it.
38:08>> So, and it was gray.
38:10>> Gray?
38:10>> Yeah.
38:10>> Oh, it looked tan to me.
38:14Maybe I'm color blind.
38:15>> I don't think women can be color blind.
38:17>> Very rare.
38:18>> Really?
38:19>> Only men.
38:21>> Okay. Um,
38:24what caused you to drive that vehicle to
38:26the Greyhound bus station, just leave it
38:28there and go to California?
38:30>> I just, like I said, I like to travel.
38:34I love to travel.
38:42>> How can we explain that you own this
38:43house?
38:46>> I don't know. I have no idea.
38:49>> Well, we got to get to the bottom of
38:51that. Mhm.
38:52>> What do you think
38:55happened?
38:56>> I don't know. I have no idea whatsoever.
39:00>> For your name to be in that means you
39:02had to sign some papers and had to go
39:04down and prove who you were and go
39:07through that whole procedure. It was
39:08usually a very long procedure.
39:10>> Do you recall any of that?
39:12>> I might have done that because I don't
39:15remember exactly. But
39:17>> if you might have, what what do you
39:18think you done? I signed some papers,
39:21but that's it. I thought it was just for
39:23renting,
39:24>> you know.
39:24>> Where was that at? Where did you take
39:26care of the paperwork at?
39:27>> No, I don't know exactly where
39:30>> was it.
39:31>> Cindy brought it to me. So, I found it.
39:34>> Brought it to you where?
39:35>> At the place at the um mobile home park.
39:38>> At the mobile home.
39:41>> You're saying at the mobile home park?
39:43>> No, at the mobile home. I don't know if
39:45it's a park or not.
39:47Does the name Steuart Title mean
39:49anything to you?
39:50>> No.
39:54>> No.
39:56>> Does it actually occur at Steuart Title
39:57Company?
40:01>> Let's Maybe this will help. Um I'm sorry
40:04I said Steuart. I meant Fidelity.
40:06Fidelity Management.
40:08>> I heard of them, but I don't think I
40:11ever dealt with them.
40:12>> Okay, that's fair. The um
40:16Have you ever gotten an inheritance in
40:18your life when your mom or dad passed
40:19away?
40:20>> My mom.
40:20>> What kind of inheritance did you get?
40:22>> I don't know exactly how much it was.
40:26Maybe about 100,000. I'm not sure. Or
40:2950,000. One to two, but that that was
40:32gone.
40:33>> What' you spend that on?
40:35>> Everything.
40:36>> Everything such as what the clothes
40:40and stuff. Okay. Do you have
40:41>> anything to show for that for the
40:42$100,000?
40:43>> No.
40:45When would you got this inheritance?
40:48>> When?
40:49[Music]
40:50>> Probably about 2000.
40:54Probably it was Yeah. A year 2000.
40:57>> I say about a month or two after she
40:59passed away.
41:00>> Okay. I'm not being mean. I'm asking
41:0250,000 and 100,000. That's a huge
41:05difference.
41:06>> And I'm just if somebody were to give me
41:08either amount, I would remember it.
41:11>> So, if you could just try to think a
41:12little harder, how much money do you
41:13think it is? I think it was 50,000 for
41:16sure.
41:22>> All right. How did you get that? You
41:24remember?
41:25>> Was it a check in the mail?
41:29>> I think it was through a lawyer. I don't
41:30know his name.
41:32>> If I said his name, would that help you?
41:33>> It might.
41:34>> Okay.
41:36>> I don't know.
41:38>> Okay. And tell me some of the things
41:39that you bought with that money.
41:41>> Clothes.
41:42>> Women's clothes.
41:44Give me like dresses, um, sports, what
41:48what what kind of clothes? Cuz I mean,
41:50$50,000 is a lot of money.
41:52>> Yeah, it is.
41:53>> And, uh, be hard to spend $50,000 on
41:54clothes.
41:56>> Yeah.
41:56>> Unless you're Britney Spears.
41:58>> You know who that is, right?
41:59>> Yeah.
42:00>> Everybody knows who she is.
42:02>> Yeah. I bought a car.
42:04>> You bought a car?
42:05>> Yeah. But got wrecked.
42:06>> What kind of car did you buy? It was an
42:08SUV.
42:10>> It was
42:13Can't think of it. No name of it.
42:19>> Okay.
42:22>> What else did you go ahead? Did you
42:24think of what you bought with that
42:25money? Tell me where you were living
42:26when you got the money.
42:28>> Where was I?
42:31>> Well,
42:33probably down in Central. I'm not sure.
42:35Central.
42:37>> Central. When you say Central Drive with
42:38you, are you talking about the address
42:39on Shore Drive South?
42:41>> Well, Shore Drive South. Yeah. Sorry.
42:45>> Mhm.
42:46>> So, you live there?
42:47>> Mhm.
42:47>> And you lived at
42:52>> St. Petersburg. Is that Lingington?
42:54>> Mhm.
42:54>> No. Okay. How about
43:02>> that?
43:02>> I remember that.
43:03>> You remember that one? Um, and of course
43:06the yellow pine street. This address
43:08here.
43:11Yeah.
43:12>> Mhm.
43:13>> Did you live there?
43:15>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, I lived in a trailer.
43:17>> Lived in a trailer?
43:18>> Yeah.
43:19>> Where would that be? Near.
43:20>> What would that be near? A ski shop and
43:23a hotel.
43:24>> Well, when we were coming back here
43:25today, we actually passed it by the
43:27Sundial Motel.
43:28>> Yeah.
43:28>> Okay. So, you actually live there in the
43:29in the trailer. That little trailer out
43:31the front.
43:31>> Yeah.
43:32>> Okay.
43:32>> Till it got too dag on cold.
43:36>> Do something.
43:37>> And then you left the trailer and moved
43:39to the shelter,
43:40>> right? Okay, that's making sense. Um,
43:46>> I thought you was talking about Florida
43:47for that address.
43:48>> No, I'm just going because this thing
43:50here is just making sure that what's in
43:51here is accurate because this is what's
43:52telling me that you own this house on
43:53Yellow Pine.
43:55>> Do you remember what you paid for the
43:56house on Yellow Pine?
43:57>> No.
43:58>> No.
44:00>> Okay. If I said the number, would that
44:02help?
44:03>> I don't. No.
44:04>> Okay. Did uh did you ever get any other
44:07inheritance?
44:08>> No. So, in your lifetime, you received a
44:10check for $50,000, but you thought maybe
44:12it was $100,000,
44:14>> but it but definitely was $50,000.
44:16>> Oh, yeah.
44:19>> And siblings. Do you have any siblings?
44:22>> No.
44:23>> You've never You know what a sibling is?
44:24>> Yeah. Brother and sister.
44:26>> Okay. I'm not Sometimes I use words.
44:28Okay. So, you have no brothers or
44:30sister? Cuz here's what happened. When
44:31you said 100,000 and you got 50,000,
44:33that would indicate to me that somebody
44:35else got the other 50. You know, they
44:37split two ways. And if I'm talking to
44:38you, there might be a sibling.
44:40>> Yeah.
44:40>> No siblings.
44:41>> No siblings.
44:42>> Okay.
44:44>> You know Wayne Saraphini?
44:46>> No.
44:47>> Okay. Because that's who you purchased
44:48the house from. Uh to Barbara A. Burns.
44:51I got it right here.
44:52>> Um $82,400.
44:55>> Really?
44:56>> Uh-huh.
44:56>> Wow.
44:57>> You're not going to believe what date
44:58the contract was on.
44:59>> What?
45:00>> 10:24 of 2001.
45:02>> 2001.
45:03>> Mhm.
45:04>> Wow.
45:04>> Which if we look at your timeline
45:06>> Mhm. That was the time you said you quit
45:09Lowe's
45:10and moved to California,
45:12>> right?
45:13>> That's weird.
45:14>> Yeah, it is. But I, like I said, I only
45:16stayed there for like a week.
45:18>> Okay. Did you give somebody $82,000? You
45:21would know that, right?
45:22>> Yeah, I would know that.
45:24>> Okay. And Fidelity National Title. That
45:27sounds familiar to you.
45:28>> Similar. I don't know. I I heard of it.
45:31>> Okay. That's the people who did the
45:32closing.
45:33>> Oh, really?
45:34>> Yeah. And when you go to the closing,
45:35you have to present your, you know, your
45:36driver's license.
45:37>> Do you have any other identification
45:39other than a driver's license? No.
45:41>> Do you have a passport?
45:42>> Yeah, I have a passport.
45:44>> Okay.
45:44>> It's at the center.
45:46>> It's at the center.
45:47>> Okay. Where have you been on your
45:49passport? Why do you have a passport?
45:51>> Where? What's on it?
45:52>> I'm sorry. Let me I put I do all the
45:54time.
45:56>> Why do you have a passport?
45:58>> Well, just in case, you know, if I lost
46:00my driver's license or something. That's
46:02it. When did you get a passport then?
46:06>> It's going to be expired. So I would say
46:08about 5 years ago.
46:11>> Have you ever gone anywhere on your
46:12passport?
46:12>> Just to Australia.
46:14>> Did you just say just to Australia?
46:17>> Just
46:17>> that's awesome. Tell me about Australia.
46:20>> It's nice. It's really nice. I don't
46:22like I don't like the way they drive.
46:25>> I don't like the way I drive.
46:26>> I went to Melbourne.
46:29>> California.
46:29>> No, Australia.
46:30>> Australia.
46:31>> Okay. Let let me hear about this. Why
46:33did you go to Australia? What happened?
46:35Who did you go with?
46:36>> Just me.
46:36>> Just you. Where were you at when you
46:38left for Australia?
46:39>> Where was I?
46:41>> I think it was at the uh Grilla area or
46:44either.
46:46>> So, Pasadena, St. Pete, Florida.
46:48>> How did you get to Australia?
46:50>> Well, I took a taxi to get to airplane
46:52and No, I actually I flew out to uh
46:55California to catch a Quantis.
46:58>> Okay. Did you leave Tampa airport or St.
46:59Peter? Tampa.
47:01>> Tampa. Okay. And you flew from there to
47:03California and from California to
47:05Australia,
47:05>> right?
47:06>> You see the Great Barrier Reef?
47:08>> The who?
47:09>> The Great Barrier Reef.
47:10>> No, it's
47:11>> in Australia.
47:13>> Yeah.
47:13>> Are you saying the word Australia or
47:14Austria?
47:15>> Australia.
47:16>> Okay. In the Great Barrier Reef, the big
47:18reef that surrounds the whole island.
47:19>> I never noticed it.
47:22>> Okay. All the big sharks are out there,
47:24jellyfish, banana wars.
47:29that.
47:34>> Okay, we just turned the tape over. The
47:36time is uh 8:57 hours and we're going to
47:39continue on with the interview. Sorry
47:41about that. Um, what did you do in
47:43Australia?
47:44>> I went uh sightseeing.
47:47That's about it. It was just like a
47:49couple of days or a week, I think it
47:51was. You
47:51>> there about a week?
47:53>> Okay. Who went with you?
47:54>> Just me.
47:55>> All by yourself.
47:56>> All by myself. If I wanted to go do
47:58something, you know, like I said, I like
47:59to travel.
48:00>> Outstanding. Was that before or after
48:01the inheritance?
48:02>> It was after the inheritance.
48:04>> Okay. So, you would have used the
48:05inheritance money
48:06>> to go there.
48:07>> What' that cost you?
48:09>> A couple thousand.
48:11>> 2,000 3,000.
48:12>> About 2,000, I think.
48:14>> Is that the airline ticket or
48:15>> the airline ticket? And well, the hotel
48:17was different. I paid that when I got
48:19there. So, that was like I don't know
48:22exactly how much.
48:24>> Okay. And what airline did you take out
48:25there? Um, I took a Delta.
48:31>> So, you took Delta from Tampa to Cal.
48:34>> Mhm.
48:34>> And it would have been after 2000.
48:37>> Do you remember what year it was?
48:40>> Maybe close to 2002. I'm not sure.
48:46>> It'll be on your passport.
48:48>> Should be.
48:48>> We can just run back to look at your
48:49passport, don't we? Are there any other
48:51stamps on your passport?
48:52No, just sir.
48:58>> Um,
49:00>> so you sightsee. Now, here's something
49:02and I don't know if you you have no
49:04photographs of any of this.
49:05>> No.
49:05>> I mean, Australia is a beautiful
49:06country.
49:07>> I know, but I don't like to keep
49:08pictures.
49:10>> Okay. Um, watch that show, the guy from
49:13Australia.
49:14>> Oh, I don't know his name, but I know
49:15who you're talking about.
49:16>> He's crazy.
49:17>> Yes.
49:18>> What does he do?
49:20>> He's an alligator.
49:21>> Alligator. Okay. I wasn't sure we were
49:22talking about the same guy.
49:23>> Um did you didn't see him, did you?
49:26>> No.
49:26>> Does he go to any shows or
49:28>> No.
49:28>> Yeah. He he catches snakes and stuff.
49:30His wife is Okay.
49:31>> And his baby.
49:33>> And he brings his baby. Yeah. Um Steve
49:34Irwin.
49:35>> Yeah. Thank
49:38>> Yeah. That's the name because I remember
49:39you say you like watch Lifetime and
49:41>> he's on the next channel up I think.
49:43Animal Planner. So
49:45>> all right. Now we've been sitting here
49:47for a little bit. Anything thinking
49:49about this 5074 yellow pine?
49:52>> No.
49:53>> How it could be owned by you?
49:55>> No, I don't understand that.
49:57>> Okay. Um, have you ever had power in
50:00your name?
50:01>> Power?
50:01>> You know what that means?
50:02>> One time. Electric power.
50:03>> Yes.
50:04>> One time.
50:05>> Where at?
50:06>> Probably in gilla.
50:10>> Yep. Um,
50:15at Yellowpine, the power was in the name
50:18of Deborah Burns.
50:20>> Oh, yeah.
50:21>> Yeah.
50:22>> Do you know a Deborah Burns?
50:23>> No. Like I said, I only know Cindy. I
50:26don't know a Deborah Burns.
50:27>> Was Cindy's last name Burns?
50:30>> No, I don't know her last name.
50:32>> Okay.
50:33>> But Cindy was black, right?
50:35>> Mhm.
50:36>> All right. Um,
50:39>> we got to figure out how somebody would
50:40buy this house and have it your name.
50:42>> Yeah, really? I don't know. I don't
50:44understand that.
50:48>> Do you file taxes and things like that?
50:51>> I did.
50:51>> Okay. And we're not from the tax people.
50:53We care less about taxes. I'm just
50:55saying though. Do you remember? Do you
50:56do it every year or every other year or
50:58>> I think I did it every other year
51:00because I didn't do it this year. You
51:02>> didn't do it this year. Okay.
51:04>> Okay. But you know like when you do
51:05tasks do you do it yourself?
51:07>> Okay. I did it myself.
51:09>> You don't. Okay. So you go and get the
51:10book and go through it
51:12>> right.
51:12>> Okay. Do you remember things get the
51:14mark and what you don't mark and
51:16>> Yeah.
51:16>> reference the properties and just you
51:18know they ask you about everything.
51:20>> Right.
51:20>> Do you remember marking no properties at
51:24all? That's one thing I do remember.
51:26>> Okay.
51:27>> No properties.
51:36Barbara, at this residence of Yellow
51:39Pine,
51:40>> uh, we found a body.
51:43A
51:43>> body?
51:44>> Yes.
51:46>> Okay.
51:49>> I don't.
51:51>> I don't know. I couldn't tell you.
51:56>> Couldn't tell me.
51:57>> Well, whatever you're asking.
51:58>> Oh, okay. Well, here's what doesn't make
52:01sense. You said you left Lowe's in 2001
52:04>> and you went to California and you
52:05stayed out there for several years and
52:07then you came from California to
52:08Virginia.
52:09>> Okay,
52:11that's not true. And here's why that's
52:13not true. You quit your job at Lowe's in
52:162004.
52:18>> Okay, actually
52:27[Music]
52:36If I give you the date, will that maybe
52:38help you remember?
52:39>> It might.
52:52Sorry, I've been busy.
52:56You quit your job at Lowe's August 27th
52:59of 2004.
53:02>> Do you recall that?
53:03>> I know I quit in August, but I thought
53:06it was 2001.
53:08>> Okay. And and to me, I could see if you
53:11go August 27th. It might have been
53:13August 28th. you know, I don't really
53:15know that date, but the big one here for
53:17me is the year and the difference in the
53:19year. You say 2001, and you know, I have
53:23all your uh payroll records. And I've
53:26also interviewed uh your boss from
53:28Lowe's. Do you remember your boss's real
53:30name?
53:31>> The girl that was there, her name was
53:33Kathy, I think. No,
53:34>> this was actually a man. He really,
53:36really thinks highly of you.
53:37>> Oh, really?
53:38>> Do you know who I'm talking about?
53:41>> Not sure.
53:42>> Jason? I remember Jason.
53:44>> Okay. Jason was the
53:47>> manager.
53:47>> Yes.
53:48>> Okay. So, you do remember him.
53:50>> I do remember him.
53:51>> He speaks very highly of you. So highly
53:53of you that when you didn't show up for
53:55work, do you know what he did?
53:56>> He called.
53:57>> No.
53:58>> Well, he did call.
53:59>> Well, I'm sorry. But after he called, he
54:02even did something. He even went a step
54:03further.
54:04>> Yeah, he came by.
54:05>> Okay. What happened that day?
54:08>> Nothing really.
54:10He just knocked on the door and that was
54:12it.
54:13>> Did you answer the door?
54:14>> No, I don't like answering doors.
54:16>> I understand that too.
54:18>> Well, why wouldn't you answer the door
54:19when Jason came there?
54:20>> Cuz I didn't want to talk to him.
54:22>> Okay. Um, did somebody call you at that
54:25time?
54:26>> He did.
54:27>> Not quite.
54:28>> Who?
54:30>> Think hard for me. Somebody called you?
54:33>> Oh, he was standing out front by your
54:34house.
54:36>> Jason?
54:36>> Yeah. To see if you were home.
54:40I don't know.
54:40>> Remember the neighbor lady you were
54:42talking about?
54:42>> Mhm.
54:43>> You remember her name?
54:44>> No, I don't remember her name at all.
54:47>> Okay, I'm going to say it for you.
54:49Shirley.
54:50>> Okay.
54:51>> Does that ring a bell?
54:52>> Kind of.
54:53>> Okay.
54:53>> What side of the trailer was what
54:55neighbor was she?
54:56[Music]
54:58>> I'm not sure. I think the left or the
55:00right one. The two.
55:01>> If you're standing in the driveway and
55:02you're looking at your house, which do
55:05you see your right or left?
55:06>> Would probably be the right.
55:07>> Right. Okay.
55:08>> Okay. All right. So, we are talking
55:09about the same person. Um,
55:12she called you and you answered the
55:14phone.
55:15>> Do you remember that conversation?
55:17>> No, I don't.
55:20>> Barbara, do you not want to remember the
55:22conversation or do you just don't
55:23remember it and you're asking me to
55:24refresh your memory?
55:25>> I don't remember it honestly.
55:27>> Okay.
55:28>> I don't.
55:28>> She actually calls you and said that
55:30there was a handsome man. This is a I'm
55:32gonna tell you why I know this in a
55:33second, but she said there's a handsome
55:35man knocking at your door and he's your
55:38boss and you told her
55:43>> I didn't want to see him or talk to him.
55:45I think that's what it was.
55:47>> That is exactly what you said. Tell him
55:49to go away. Um, you also said something
55:51else about your your state, the way you
55:54were your condition.
55:56>> My condition?
55:57>> Yeah.
55:58>> I don't remember that. You said you were
56:00okay, that you were fine.
56:02>> Yeah.
56:02>> Okay.
56:03>> So, you do remember that?
56:04>> Yeah, I remember that.
56:05>> Okay. So, that happened August 27th.
56:09Actually, that happened August 30th,
56:112004. You didn't show up for work August
56:1327th. They called you and then he showed
56:15up on August 30th.
56:16>> Mhm.
56:17>> Okay. So, you do remember that?
56:18>> Yeah.
56:19>> So, I'm telling you the truth,
56:21>> right?
56:21>> Okay. Um,
56:27do you remember telling Shirley anything
56:29else after that?
56:31>> No.
56:32>> Okay. And I'm going to ask again, I'm
56:35I'm not being redundant, but it's
56:36important. Are you saying you don't
56:38remember because you don't want to, or
56:40you just don't remember?
56:41>> I don't remember.
56:42>> So, me supplying you with the
56:44information, is it helping you remember?
56:45>> Some of it, but not all of it.
56:48>> Okay. And what have you not remembered
56:49that I've
56:51>> No, everything you're saying is coming
56:53back, but that's it.
56:54>> So everything I'm saying is the truth.
56:56>> Mhm.
56:56>> Okay. Do you remember telling your next
56:59door neighbor that you were going to
57:01California?
57:03>> Do you remember when that was?
57:05>> No.
57:06>> Would it have been before or after Jason
57:08knocked on your door? I
57:10>> think it was after.
57:11>> It was after. Is it very good? So you
57:13you are having recollection. Okay. Do
57:16you remember that what you told her why
57:17you were going to California?
57:19>> No.
57:20>> To take care of
57:22>> my aunt. I think it was a
57:24>> sick aunt. Very good.
57:25>> Yeah. But I don't know if she's still
57:26living.
57:27>> Okay. Did you ever see her when you went
57:29out there?
57:29>> No.
57:30>> Okay. Who was your aunt? What's her
57:31name?
57:32>> I don't know her name.
57:35I really don't.
57:36>> Your aunt's name?
57:37>> Yeah. My aunt's name. I don't really
57:42know exactly what her name is.
57:43>> Okay. While we're sitting here, if
57:45anytime it pops in your head,
57:46>> I'll let you know.
57:47>> I really appreciate that. Okay. So, you
57:49didn't go out and see your sick aunt.
57:51>> No.
57:52>> Okay.
57:55>> We're going to get back to this page in
57:56a second. Remember the name you told me
57:58before,
57:59>> Cindy?
58:00>> No. Um, your supervisor at Bells.
58:03>> Mhm.
58:03>> Remember her name?
58:04>> I think it was Kathy.
58:06>> No, Linda Wear.
58:07>> Oh. Oh, at Bells. Yeah. Linda Wear.
58:10>> Okay.
58:10>> Yeah. You when I pulled this notebook
58:13out here, did you notice when I pulled
58:14this out?
58:15>> Have I written anything in here?
58:16>> Okay. I only use this notebook, this
58:18little one.
58:19>> Okay, perfect. That's why And you can't
58:21really see too good. I know. Can you see
58:22that name?
58:23>> Linda Wear.
58:24>> Linda Wear. Okay. So, I've talked to
58:26Linda Wear.
58:28>> I've already spoken to her.
58:29>> When is the last time you saw Linda Wear
58:31that you can recall?
58:33>> I don't know. It's been a long time.
58:36>> What's a long time to you?
58:38>> Years, maybe?
58:40>> Years. a couple years maybe.
58:42>> Where did the last place you remember
58:43seeing her? What physical location?
58:46>> At Lowe's.
58:47>> At Lowe's. Okay. That's That is the last
58:49place you saw her, but it it was in '
58:5004.
58:52>> It was in 2004. Um and a matter of fact,
58:54it was in August right before you quit.
58:57>> Do you remember your conversation with
58:59Linda Wear?
59:00>> No.
59:00>> Do you remember what you were doing?
59:02>> I was doing the register at the time.
59:04You
59:04>> We could call that cashiering. Yeah. And
59:06she was a
59:07>> customer. Excellent. Do you remember
59:09what she bought? I think she bought some
59:11plants.
59:12>> Plants. How about window cleaning
59:14material?
59:15>> She bought some of those.
59:16>> She did buy like Windex or
59:18>> I think so.
59:19>> Commercial stuff. Okay. Do you remember
59:21the conversation?
59:23>> No. We just talked.
59:26>> She asked how you were doing.
59:27>> Yeah.
59:27>> And you told her I
59:28>> was doing good.
59:29>> Okay. Um
59:32and you asked her how she was doing.
59:34>> What'd she tell you?
59:35>> She's doing okay.
59:36>> She tell you what kind of business she
59:37was in. I think she said window
59:39cleaning. I'm not sure.
59:41>> She was in a cleaning business. This So,
59:43you do have a conversation.
59:45>> Linda asked you about your sister.
59:47>> Sister?
59:48>> Yes.
59:49>> I don't have a sister.
59:50>> Well, let's let's put that you don't
59:52have a sister on a sideburner for a
59:54second. Okay.
59:55>> Okay.
59:55>> But she asked how your sister was doing
59:57and you told her something.
59:58>> Do you remember what you told her?
1:00:03>> No, you don't want to remember or please
1:00:05help recollect my memory.
1:00:07>> Yeah. Please, I'm grateful for that.
1:00:08>> Yeah.
1:00:09>> You told her that Debbie, your sister,
1:00:11had flown out to California to
1:00:14>> to the aunt
1:00:15>> to take care of the sick aunt. Okay. Are
1:00:18you guessing or do you recall this?
1:00:19>> I'm guessing cuz I don't recall that
1:00:22part.
1:00:23>> Okay.
1:00:24>> Cuz I don't know a Deborah Burns.
1:00:26>> You don't know a Deborah Burns.
1:00:29>> How about if I show you a picture?
1:00:32Okay. Of
1:00:32>> Debbie Burns.
1:00:37Nice girl, but I don't remember her
1:00:42honestly.
1:00:44>> Okay,
1:00:45can you read her address for me?
1:00:52>> I think it says,
1:00:56>> "You remember that address?"
1:00:58>> I remembered it.
1:00:59>> Okay.
1:01:00>> Mhm.
1:01:02>> You said nice girl. Why'd you say that?
1:01:04Well, she looks cute.
1:01:06>> Yeah.
1:01:10>> Why would Linda Wear tell me that you
1:01:14have a sister?
1:01:16>> I don't know.
1:01:22>> I want to give you a couple other names.
1:01:24>> Okay.
1:01:25>> All right.
1:01:26>> Doesn't mean I remember.
1:01:27>> Oh, I'm well aware of that. Okay. D.
1:01:31Schmulla. Dolores Ashman.
1:01:34>> Dolores Ashman.
1:01:38>> Kathy
1:01:40Ganoler. Janoler.
1:01:43>> I remember her. She was my supervisor at
1:01:45Bell's.
1:01:46>> Okay. Larry Loen.
1:01:48>> Yeah, I remember him too.
1:01:50>> For whom?
1:01:51>> At Bell's helmet.
1:01:52>> Okay.
1:01:54Marge.
1:01:55>> Yeah, I remember her. She worked at
1:01:57Bells. She worked at Bell's. Okay. So,
1:02:00all those people you do know. Do any of
1:02:02those people have a problem with you?
1:02:05>> No.
1:02:05>> I mean, I'm sorry. You We've sat here
1:02:08for a long time, but you said some
1:02:09people like you and some people don't
1:02:10like you.
1:02:11>> I can't imagine people not liking you.
1:02:13>> There's nothing wrong with your
1:02:14personality.
1:02:16>> And all those people I just read
1:02:17consider themselves friends of yours.
1:02:20>> You know where I got those names from?
1:02:25>> We We agree though that they're friends
1:02:26of yours. Mhm.
1:02:29>> Co-workers.
1:02:30>> Co-workers.
1:02:32>> Friends or no?
1:02:34>> Yeah, I consider I think everybody I
1:02:36meet is considered friends.
1:02:38>> Very good. They're not enemies.
1:02:40>> No.
1:02:41>> Okay.
1:02:44I talked to all those people
1:02:46>> and they said, "We know Barbara well."
1:02:50Um, especially Linda Wear. I mean, we
1:02:53socialized on birthdays. You guys
1:02:55actually went out to dinner in groups.
1:02:57>> Yeah, we also went out dancing.
1:02:59>> And dancing. Yes. Yes.
1:03:05And they all told me that you have a
1:03:07sister, Debbie.
1:03:09Matter of fact, most of them had met
1:03:11Debbie.
1:03:14What do you think about that?
1:03:16>> I don't know.
1:03:18>> You don't know what?
1:03:20>> What to think about that?
1:03:21>> Okay. Because I'm trying to say, are
1:03:24they lying to us or is it something
1:03:26maybe you don't recall or
1:03:28>> I don't recall?
1:03:32>> Recall what though? Why don't you recall
1:03:33>> about the if they're lying or not? I
1:03:35don't know.
1:03:37>> Well, now hold on. If you don't have a
1:03:40sister, who in this room would know if
1:03:42you had a sister the most.
1:03:44>> Me.
1:03:45>> Okay. So, either you're going to tell me
1:03:47that they're lying or you don't recall
1:03:50having a sister. It's one of the two. I
1:03:52don't recall having a sister.
1:03:54>> Okay. So, they're not lying.
1:03:56>> I guess not. I don't know.
1:03:57>> Okay. I'm going to show you a packet of
1:03:59paper. And the reason I'm I'm not
1:04:01talking to you like but it's on audio
1:04:04tape. Okay. Okay.
1:04:04>> I want you to look at this paper and
1:04:06tell me what it is.
1:04:07>> Okay.
1:04:08>> It is. Well, it's my first name, middle
1:04:11name, last name.
1:04:13>> Okay.
1:04:13>> My social security number.
1:04:15>> Okay.
1:04:16>> And there's some other numbers I can't
1:04:18see.
1:04:18>> That's okay. Yeah. Just go through it
1:04:19and tell me if you recognize it's an
1:04:21application.
1:04:22>> It's an application.
1:04:23>> Yes.
1:04:27>> What's this application for?
1:04:28>> That's what I'm asking you.
1:04:30>> I don't know.
1:04:31>> Look through it.
1:04:46>> Keep looking. You'll recognize it. I
1:04:48will.
1:04:49>> Yes.
1:05:04>> Keep going.
1:05:08>> Ew. Ugly.
1:05:09>> What?
1:05:10>> My picture.
1:05:11>> Oh, stop that. We all Nobody takes a
1:05:14good DL picture.
1:05:16>> So, that's your DL picture on there.
1:05:17Yeah.
1:05:19>> You don't remember what that's from?
1:05:211999.
1:05:23>> No, I don't.
1:05:24>> Let me ask you this. Did you ever apply
1:05:26to be a taxi cab driver?
1:05:28>> Oh. Oh, okay.
1:05:30>> Okay. What?
1:05:31>> Yeah, I did.
1:05:32>> What is that?
1:05:33>> Is that an application for a taxi
1:05:35driver?
1:05:35>> I'm asking you. Is it?
1:05:36>> I guess.
1:05:37>> Okay. Well, that's what it is. That's
1:05:38where I got it from. Do you remember
1:05:39where you applied at?
1:05:41>> No,
1:05:43I don't remember. Maybe St. Petersburg.
1:05:45>> St. Petersburg. Right.
1:05:47>> Okay. When you did that packet, do you
1:05:49notice anything in there missing?
1:05:52>> Remember anything else that you had to
1:05:53do to get your uh application?
1:05:56>> Fingerprints.
1:05:57>> Fingerprints. Very good. That that's of
1:05:59course that's what's in there is your
1:06:00fingerprint card. So, they did take your
1:06:02fingerprints
1:06:04when you were when you stayed at Yellow
1:06:06Pine. Okay. Do you remember using air
1:06:10fresheners there?
1:06:12>> Maybe. I don't know.
1:06:14>> Sure. We're going to have to think about
1:06:15it a little bit longer then.
1:06:19>> It might.
1:06:22>> Yeah.
1:06:22>> What for?
1:06:24>> Just use air freshener instead opening
1:06:27the windows.
1:06:29>> Okay.
1:06:30>> Barbara,
1:06:32around the
1:06:35dead body were air fresheners.
1:06:38>> Really?
1:06:38>> Yes, ma'am.
1:06:41Now, whose fingerprints do you think
1:06:43were on the air fresheners?
1:06:45>> Probably mine, but
1:06:48I don't remember putting it in the
1:06:50bedroom. Only in the kitchen.
1:06:52>> There was a can in the kitchen. That was
1:06:54spray.
1:06:55>> That was an air freshener spray.
1:06:57>> Mhm.
1:06:58>> Um, and your fingerprints were on that.
1:06:59You're absolutely correct. But around
1:07:02this body were air fresheners, including
1:07:04a plug-in one that goes into the outlet.
1:07:07>> Really?
1:07:07>> Yes.
1:07:10That's new to me.
1:07:18>> New to you? How?
1:07:19>> Cuz I don't remember putting in anything
1:07:22in the bedroom. Only in the kitchen.
1:07:25>> Okay. How about in the bedroom where
1:07:27there's a bathroom in there also? There
1:07:29are actual used air fresheners in the
1:07:31garbage can in the bathroom.
1:07:32>> Really?
1:07:33>> Yes.
1:07:35>> I don't remember that. Now, when you say
1:07:37you don't remember, cuz we've done this
1:07:39quite a bit now.
1:07:40>> No, I really don't remember.
1:07:41>> Okay. So, it could have happened. You're
1:07:43not saying you didn't do it,
1:07:44>> right? Well, I'm saying I didn't do it
1:07:46because I know I didn't.
1:07:48>> Okay.
1:07:50Um,
1:07:51>> what what bedroom were you talking about
1:07:54reference to?
1:07:55>> I don't know what bedroom he's talking
1:07:57about. I'm talking about my bedroom.
1:07:58>> Right. Well, you mentioned bedroom.
1:07:59That's the first time I heard of the
1:08:01bedroom.
1:08:02>> But you probably put the air fresheners
1:08:03in in the bedroom.
1:08:04>> What bedroom would that
1:08:05>> My bedroom? Which one was your bedroom
1:08:07again?
1:08:07>> Way in the back.
1:08:08>> Way in the back. Okay.
1:08:18>> Did you have property stuff that you
1:08:20owned at this house on Yellow Pine?
1:08:22>> Not that I can remember.
1:08:26>> Don't get mad at me. It's kind of like
1:08:28talking to Bill Clinton.
1:08:31>> Okay.
1:08:33Do you collect anything?
1:08:35Not really.
1:08:36>> Have you ever collected anything?
1:08:38>> No, not that I can remember. No.
1:08:42>> Would you remember collecting something
1:08:44if you were a collector?
1:08:45>> Oh, yeah.
1:08:46>> You a music fan?
1:08:49>> Kind of. Not really.
1:08:51>> Kind of. Not really.
1:08:53>> Well, actually, not really.
1:08:54>> Okay.
1:08:56>> Sorry.
1:08:56>> That's okay. Like talking. I understand.
1:08:59Um, how about Elvis?
1:09:02>> No. Not into the king.
1:09:08>> Weird. When I talk to your your friends
1:09:09and your co-workers, you're a huge Elvis
1:09:12fan.
1:09:12>> Oh, yeah.
1:09:13>> And then you're also collected. You and
1:09:14Debbie
1:09:16something else.
1:09:17>> Oh, yeah.
1:09:18>> Do you remember what it was?
1:09:19>> No.
1:09:23>> Not at all.
1:09:25>> I don't know.
1:09:33Sorry.
1:09:33>> That's okay. What's this a photograph
1:09:35of?
1:09:40>> I don't know.
1:09:44What do you see in the photograph?
1:09:46>> Let's see
1:09:48a box.
1:09:52Some hangers. That's about it. And some
1:09:55other box. That's the only thing. Okay,
1:09:59let me have a picture back.
1:10:04>> Oh, little puppy. That was her pup. That
1:10:07girl, Cindy's puppy.
1:10:10>> What was the dog? Which one is it?
1:10:12>> I don't know the dog's name.
1:10:14>> Who's in the picture?
1:10:17>> I don't know. Looks like her.
1:10:20>> No, it doesn't.
1:10:21>> Me? Oh, it's me.
1:10:25It's me. That was Cindy's dog.
1:10:28That was Cindy's on.
1:10:30>> Mhm.
1:10:30>> What kind of dog is that?
1:10:32>> I don't know.
1:10:36>> I have no idea.
1:10:40>> Do you not know dogs?
1:10:41>> No, I don't know dogs.
1:10:43>> That's fine. If I told you that's a
1:10:45long-haired Chihuahua, would you say I'm
1:10:46a liar?
1:10:47>> I wouldn't think so.
1:10:49>> You wouldn't think so that that's a long
1:10:50hair or that I'm a liar.
1:10:51>> You're not a liar.
1:10:52>> I'm not a liar. Okay. It's a very cute
1:10:54dog. Where's that dog at?
1:10:57I have no idea.
1:10:59>> Okay, but we agree that's you in the
1:11:01picture.
1:11:01>> Mhm.
1:11:02>> Okay,
1:11:04that's a good one.
1:11:06>> Oh, who's that?
1:11:08>> I'm asking you.
1:11:09>> I don't know this one.
1:11:10>> You don't know that one?
1:11:11>> Mhm.
1:11:12>> What do you see in the picture?
1:11:14>> It looks like a guy singing.
1:11:15>> Like a country singer?
1:11:17>> Why would you say he's country though?
1:11:19>> I have no idea.
1:11:21>> Okay, we'll come back to this one.
1:11:28You have any idea what that is?
1:11:30>> But I don't have your glasses on.
1:11:32>> No, I don't.
1:11:33>> Um, I'll tell you what that is. That's a
1:11:35priority mail. Um, cardboard box. It's
1:11:37addressed to your residence and it's
1:11:40from a bridal shop.
1:11:42>> Carly's bridal shop.
1:11:44>> I don't know anything about that.
1:11:45>> Don't know anything about it. Have you
1:11:46ever been engaged to be married?
1:11:48>> No. No.
1:11:48>> No.
1:11:50All right.
1:11:55stuff animals.
1:12:01>> There a lot of stuff in there.
1:12:03>> Yeah, there is. Have you ever seen that
1:12:06stuff before?
1:12:07>> No.
1:12:07>> Well, look at it again because that's
1:12:09all stuff that's in yellow pine.
1:12:14>> It's just a lot of stuff animals.
1:12:17That's the only thing I know.
1:12:21Is any of that stuff yours?
1:12:22>> No.
1:12:23>> None of that.
1:12:24>> None.
1:12:28It's
1:12:28>> not a picture of it.
1:12:30>> Kitchen. That's what the kitchen looks
1:12:32like.
1:12:32>> Where?
1:12:33>> A yellow pie.
1:12:34>> A yellow pine. Okay.
1:12:37Not only do I want to know what this is
1:12:38a picture of, where would this picture
1:12:40have come from?
1:12:42>> Where it came from?
1:12:44>> Mhm.
1:12:45>> I don't know.
1:12:48>> I have no idea. What's that a picture
1:12:50of?
1:12:51>> That's a picture of a screen.
1:12:53>> Where?
1:12:54>> Probably at Yellow Pine. I don't know.
1:12:56>> Now, you said probably. Is it or is not
1:12:59it not Yellow Pine?
1:13:00>> Could be.
1:13:02I'm not sure.
1:13:04>> It looked like it would be. That's a
1:13:07screen porch.
1:13:08>> When you were at Yellow Pine, did you
1:13:09ever see Do you see the games in there?
1:13:10>> Yeah.
1:13:11>> Were those there?
1:13:12>> Yeah, they were there.
1:13:13>> They were there. So, is that a fair and
1:13:15accurate picture of Yellow Pine?
1:13:17>> Yes. the house that you own in Penel
1:13:19County, Florida.
1:13:20>> I don't remember owning it.
1:13:22>> Okay.
1:13:25Would this been taken from the side that
1:13:27that lady Shirley lives on or the other
1:13:29side?
1:13:30>> I'm not sure. It could be on the same
1:13:32side.
1:13:33>> Well, look where the stairs are.
1:13:35>> Yeah, stairs are right there. So, I
1:13:37guess she would be right behind it. I'm
1:13:40not sure.
1:13:40>> Right next to it.
1:13:41>> Yeah, right next to it.
1:13:42>> Okay.
1:13:52gun.
1:13:53>> That looks like a BB gun.
1:13:55>> It looks like a BB gun. Okay. Where's
1:13:56that picture taken at?
1:13:59>> That I don't know.
1:14:00>> Not enough in there for you to tell?
1:14:02>> No.
1:14:03>> Okay.
1:14:13That we wrap up.
1:14:16It looks like a bathroom or something.
1:14:18Does
1:14:18>> it look like a bathroom you recognize?
1:14:21>> No, I don't remember this bathroom.
1:14:24>> You don't remember? Or you want me to
1:14:25remind refresh your memory?
1:14:27>> I don't remember it.
1:14:28>> Could that be the bathroom in yellow
1:14:29pine in the not in the bedroom that you
1:14:33stayed, but the one that you said that
1:14:34Cindy stayed in?
1:14:36>> It could be cuz I never go in there.
1:14:38>> Never go in there.
1:14:38>> No.
1:14:39>> See the can often there?
1:14:40>> Yeah.
1:14:43Take a guess whose print was on that.
1:14:45>> Mine.
1:14:46>> Good guess. Okay.
1:14:48And for that to be there, you must have
1:14:50set it there. That's We'll come back to
1:14:52that. Ah,
1:14:54>> what's that a photograph of?
1:14:56>> Looks like the table
1:14:58>> in the red.
1:15:00>> Okay. What's on the table?
1:15:02>> A camera.
1:15:03>> You have any idea what that camera cost?
1:15:07>> Is that your camera?
1:15:08>> No.
1:15:08>> Was that Cindy's camera?
1:15:10>> I guess. I don't know.
1:15:11>> Okay. Remember the picture I showed you
1:15:14with the dog?
1:15:17That picture came off that camera?
1:15:19>> Really?
1:15:19>> Yes, ma'am.
1:15:21>> So, somebody took a picture of you with
1:15:24Cindy's dog in the residence with that
1:15:27camera.
1:15:28>> Would you think that's an expensive
1:15:30camera or a cheap camera?
1:15:31>> I have no idea. Could be expensive. I
1:15:35don't know.
1:15:36>> It's expensive. Okay. How about this
1:15:37picture?
1:15:41That looks like um
1:15:45a first day.
1:15:47>> Okay. Where is the picture taken?
1:15:50>> I don't know.
1:15:53I have no idea.
1:15:56Here's a better picture of that picture.
1:16:01Now, where do you think the picture
1:16:02would take?
1:16:03>> In the living room
1:16:04>> of of yellow pine.
1:16:06>> Of yellow pine. Okay.
1:16:15That's the bathroom I always went into.
1:16:17That's the one in the uh like from the
1:16:19back bedroom.
1:16:20>> So that's your bathroom.
1:16:21>> Mhm.
1:16:22>> Okay. What's in the tub?
1:16:25>> Looks like a bucket and mop and
1:16:29the little kitty.
1:16:30>> The little kitty for a
1:16:32>> for the scrubbing
1:16:33>> for the toilet. Okay. What's all right
1:16:35here?
1:16:36>> Oh, I don't know. Probably stains.
1:16:39What's that look like?
1:16:40>> Stain.
1:16:41>> What color?
1:16:42>> Probably rust.
1:16:44>> Rust redstone color. How does that get
1:16:45in the tub?
1:16:47>> I don't know.
1:16:49I have no idea.
1:16:50>> Okay.
1:16:52What's this a picture of?
1:16:56>> It looks like the um kitchen of the
1:17:00residence.
1:17:02I'm not sure. That's what it looks like
1:17:06>> in yellow pine.
1:17:09Is that how it looked when you left?
1:17:12>> No, I don't remember how it looked when
1:17:13I left.
1:17:15>> Now, you say you don't remember and I
1:17:16have to go over this with you. You don't
1:17:18remember? Or could that be the way it
1:17:19looked when you left and you just don't
1:17:21remember?
1:17:21>> Right. It could be. I don't know.
1:17:23>> Okay.
1:17:28>> Is that a photograph of
1:17:30>> Yeah, it looks like uh the living room,
1:17:32I think.
1:17:33>> What do you see in the picture?
1:17:35>> See a computer.
1:17:36>> Mhm. and chair and desk.
1:17:39>> Is that a yellow pine?
1:17:41>> Mhm.
1:17:42>> Whose computer is it?
1:17:44>> Mine? I think I used it.
1:17:47>> Well, let's go back to mine, I think,
1:17:49because it is your computer.
1:17:51>> Where's that computer at now?
1:17:54>> I don't know. I have no idea.
1:17:56>> Where was it when you last saw it?
1:17:58>> There.
1:17:59>> Right there.
1:18:00>> Cuz I have the computer now. I mean,
1:18:01obviously you know that.
1:18:02>> Oh, really?
1:18:03>> Yeah. Look in the back of that picture.
1:18:05What else do you see?
1:18:07in the back of it.
1:18:10>> I see the driveway here. Back here.
1:18:14>> What's this right here?
1:18:15>> Uh, that's a um cane um a walker.
1:18:19>> Whose walker?
1:18:20>> Mine for my knee.
1:18:21>> For your knee?
1:18:22>> Did anybody else use that walker?
1:18:24>> I don't think so. I don't know.
1:18:27>> Did Cindy have to walk with a walker?
1:18:29>> I don't remember her using a walker.
1:18:32>> Do you remember her walking with a limp?
1:18:35She might have a lymph. I'm not sure cuz
1:18:39like I said, it was there like a week or
1:18:41two. About a week for sure.
1:18:45>> And you had that computer system set up
1:18:46there.
1:18:47>> Mhm.
1:18:47>> And then you left it behind.
1:18:49>> Okay.
1:18:55[Music]
1:18:59That's the
1:19:01living room. looks like
1:19:04with the table. Now it looks like it's
1:19:06in the residence.
1:19:13>> Another computer. I think that was
1:19:15Cindy's.
1:19:16>> You think that was Cindy's?
1:19:17>> Mhm.
1:19:18>> It was Debbiey's, but you're right. It
1:19:21belonged to the other person in the
1:19:22residence.
1:19:24>> Where was that when you last saw it?
1:19:26>> There, I think.
1:19:27>> Just like that. Okay.
1:19:34And is that the girl that lived there at
1:19:37the residence? Cuz I know it's not me.
1:19:40>> No, that's not you. You're right about
1:19:41that.
1:19:42>> Is that Debbie?
1:19:45>> The picture I just showed you, the
1:19:46photograph of Debbie.
1:19:48>> That's what I thought it was cuz that's
1:19:49the same picture I see right here.
1:19:51>> Can you pick it up and look at it?
1:19:52>> Sure.
1:19:55>> Yeah, that's her right there.
1:19:57>> Do you recognize her? No, I never seen
1:20:00that. Honestly, I never seen her.
1:20:03>> Look at the background. Where's that
1:20:04picture taken?
1:20:06>> Looked like yellow pine.
1:20:09>> But I never seen her.
1:20:15>> Look at that picture.
1:20:16>> Yeah, that's me.
1:20:17>> That's you in that picture holding
1:20:19>> a dog.
1:20:20>> Whose dog?
1:20:21>> Cindy's.
1:20:23That's Cindy's dog.
1:20:25>> That's Debbiey's dog.
1:20:27>> Debbiey's dog. That's Debbie's dog.
1:20:28>> Well, Cindy told me it was hers.
1:20:30>> Look at the two pictures.
1:20:32>> They're almost exactly alike.
1:20:34>> Uhhuh. And they're also in succession of
1:20:36each other. Taking off that camera I
1:20:38showed you.
1:20:40>> Who's in the picture you're holding?
1:20:42>> Debbie, the girl I don't know.
1:20:44>> Okay. And the picture over here,
1:20:46>> it's me.
1:20:47>> Okay.
1:20:50You're in the house having photographs
1:20:52taken and you're going to tell me that
1:20:54you don't know that person that's in
1:20:55your hand right now? No,
1:20:57>> your sister.
1:20:59>> I don't remember having a sister is what
1:21:02I said.
1:21:03>> And I heard that.
1:21:05>> I heard it clearly.
1:21:07>> No, but I don't know her, honestly. Do
1:21:11you think you resemble her at all?
1:21:14>> No, I don't really.
1:21:17>> I see a resemblance.
1:21:18>> Huge resemblance. You even asked if that
1:21:20was you in the picture.
1:21:21>> I know. That's what I asked.
1:21:23>> When you saw this picture, you said, "Is
1:21:25that
1:21:25>> her?" Yes. You say, "Is that Debbie?" I
1:21:28said, "No, that's you. You didn't even
1:21:30recognize a picture of yourself."
1:21:32>> No, I know. But I don't know this one,
1:21:35honestly.
1:21:37>> Barbara,
1:21:38>> let's take a breath. All right.
1:21:40>> Okay.
1:21:41>> Let's take a deep breath.
1:21:43>> Okay.
1:21:44>> Okay.
1:21:45You and Debbie purchased a home on
1:21:48Yellow Pine.
1:21:52>> I don't remember that. Whether you
1:21:54remember it or not is irrelevant. It's
1:21:56factual.
1:21:58>> She was co-owner and you were the
1:22:00co-owner.
1:22:02>> Look at the name on the driver's
1:22:03license.
1:22:06>> Yeah. Debbie Lamb Burns.
1:22:08>> Uhhuh. In 1993. I have these police
1:22:11reports from the Panelis County
1:22:13Sheriff's Office.
1:22:15Were you Debbie Burns and Margaret
1:22:18Burns? Who is
1:22:20>> my mom? your mother making reports to
1:22:22the sheriff's office about a MetLife
1:22:24insurance man that was ripping you and
1:22:26Debbie off.
1:22:29>> Yeah, I don't remember that. I don't
1:22:31remember seeing her. Okay.
1:22:35>> Okay.
1:22:36>> That's the only thing I don't remember
1:22:42>> really. Honestly,
1:22:45>> I believe you believe it, but we're
1:22:48going to get to the bottom of this.
1:22:50>> Okay,
1:22:50>> Barbara,
1:22:52focus for me.
1:22:53>> Mhm.
1:22:54>> Who's Bobby Burns?
1:22:56>> I don't know.
1:22:57>> Barbara, Bobby Burns is your brother.
1:23:00>> Oh, yeah.
1:23:01>> Yes.
1:23:02>> I don't know anything about that.
1:23:07>> We've been in here for a while, haven't
1:23:08we?
1:23:08>> Mhm.
1:23:09>> Do I do my homework?
1:23:10>> Oh, yeah. You did your homework. Okay,
1:23:14Barbara, do you know that Debbie gets
1:23:17Social Security disability checks?
1:23:20>> I guess. I don't know. Does she?
1:23:24>> She does.
1:23:27>> Guess who's been pulling the money out
1:23:28of her account?
1:23:30>> Me.
1:23:31>> Yes.
1:23:33Guess how I know that?
1:23:35>> I don't know. You checked on it.
1:23:37>> And how did I find it, Barbara?
1:23:40>> I don't know. through my social
1:23:42security.
1:23:43>> Where do you take the money out at,
1:23:45Barbara?
1:23:45>> Out of the bank?
1:23:46>> No.
1:23:48>> At ATM.
1:23:49>> At an ATM. Very good. I even know the
1:23:51department store that you go to.
1:23:53>> Oh, yeah.
1:23:53>> What department store do you pull the
1:23:55money out of?
1:23:57>> I don't know. Probably Kmart.
1:23:59>> Nope.
1:24:00>> Oh,
1:24:00>> no.
1:24:03>> I don't know.
1:24:05>> Barbara,
1:24:07>> what account do you take it out of? Do
1:24:08you know the the branch? Who is the bank
1:24:10that it gets deposited in?
1:24:12[Music]
1:24:14>> I'm not sure.
1:24:15>> What do you think it is?
1:24:17>> Only thing I know it's a bank, but I
1:24:19don't know the name of it.
1:24:21>> Am
1:24:23>> South.
1:24:24>> Oh, Am South.
1:24:25>> You banked at Ams South when you lived
1:24:27in Pasadena.
1:24:29>> Yeah, that's one who when I worked at
1:24:32>> Right. You're the co- uh owner of the
1:24:36account at AMS South. Guess who the
1:24:38other person is?
1:24:39>> Her.
1:24:41>> Say her name.
1:24:41>> Debbie.
1:24:42>> Debbie what?
1:24:43>> Burns.
1:24:44>> Debbie Burns. You and Debbie Burns have
1:24:46a bank account together. You continue to
1:24:48withdraw her social security disability
1:24:51from a department store at an ATM
1:24:53machine. Tell me what department store.
1:25:00>> Probably Target. Maybe.
1:25:03>> Take the word probably and maybe out of
1:25:05it and say the truth.
1:25:06>> Target. target. Very good. I pulled all
1:25:09the surveillance video. This is what I
1:25:11do for a living. Detective Manning and I
1:25:15>> Okay,
1:25:17>> Barbara, it's time to start telling the
1:25:19truth. Take the words probably and maybe
1:25:21and I don't remember out of this.
1:25:23>> I am telling you the truth.
1:25:25>> We need to know what happened.
1:25:27>> I don't know what happened.
1:25:30>> Probably can tell you something. We've
1:25:31been like he's been telling we've been
1:25:34doing this for a long time. Okay.
1:25:35>> They just don't put us on a plane. have
1:25:37us come up here without our homework
1:25:39being done.
1:25:40>> I think Detective J shown that to you.
1:25:41Okay.
1:25:42>> While he's been talking to you, I've
1:25:43been sitting here observing you and
1:25:44things like that. Things that, you know,
1:25:46we train, we learn to do.
1:25:48>> Every time you look at this picture of
1:25:51your sister Deborah or Debbie, okay, you
1:25:54tear up.
1:25:55>> I do.
1:25:56>> Yes, you do. Okay.
1:25:58>> You can't keep your eyes off this
1:26:00picture. Probably because you haven't
1:26:02seen her for a while.
1:26:04>> Okay. There's resemblance to the
1:26:06driver's license picture here cuz you
1:26:08said yourself,
1:26:10>> is it me? Is it not me? Okay. The
1:26:12picture here with the dog. Okay.
1:26:20>> So, I don't know what to tell you.
1:26:22>> We need to know the truth. Okay. Things
1:26:25happen for a reason. Okay. We're here to
1:26:28hear your side
1:26:30>> of the story.
1:26:32>> Okay. And we need to hear it.
1:26:35>> We need to hear it from you.
1:26:37>> Okay. As I think you know, do you play
1:26:39cards? Do you play poker or anything
1:26:40like that?
1:26:41>> No.
1:26:41>> Okay. You know how they say you have a
1:26:43poker hand? Do you know what that means?
1:26:45Or poker face.
1:26:47>> What does that mean?
1:26:48>> I guess it's my turn to deal or
1:26:50something
1:26:51>> that or um when you play cards, you
1:26:54don't show everything you really have in
1:26:56your hand or what you really have. Okay.
1:26:58Do you think we put everything on the
1:27:00table that we have about this case? all
1:27:01the knowledge that we have, all that
1:27:03we've learned. You think you've seen
1:27:04everything that we know or do you think
1:27:06we still have some stuff up our sleeve
1:27:08that we haven't told you yet?
1:27:09>> I think you did your homework.
1:27:11>> Okay.
1:27:12>> You know, but I still don't remember.
1:27:17>> You don't remember what though?
1:27:18>> Whatever you guys are fishing, you know.
1:27:21>> Okay. What do you think we're fishing?
1:27:22What have we told you so far? What do
1:27:24you think we're fishing about? What's
1:27:25the most important thing we probably
1:27:27talked to you about so far that we told
1:27:28you that we found in your trailer? the
1:27:31body.
1:27:32>> Okay. That's kind of a biggie.
1:27:34>> Yeah.
1:27:35>> Okay.
1:27:35>> Real big.
1:27:37>> Okay. Where was the body found at?
1:27:39>> I don't know.
1:27:40>> Okay.
1:27:40>> That's one thing I don't know.
1:27:42>> I think you already told detective Judy
1:27:44though
1:27:46>> where where the body was found?
1:27:49>> I don't know.
1:27:50>> You recall what you told him?
1:27:52>> No. I just told him my bedroom.
1:27:54>> Mhm.
1:27:55>> That's the only thing. And Cindy's
1:27:56bedroom was there on the right.
1:27:58>> Okay. Is this Cindy? No, that's not
1:28:01Cindy.
1:28:02>> Cindy's black.
1:28:03>> Okay,
1:28:05>> Barbara, when I showed you this picture
1:28:08right here,
1:28:10>> this one
1:28:11>> with a dog in it. You said that's her
1:28:14dog. And you look down at Debbie and
1:28:16then you I did.
1:28:17>> Yes. And then you said I mean that's
1:28:20Cindy's dog,
1:28:21>> right? It's Cindy's dog.
1:28:22>> Listen to me. That is Debbiey's dog.
1:28:25When I first time I showed you this DL
1:28:26photograph here, you said what did you
1:28:29say? Do you remember?
1:28:31>> Is that me?
1:28:32>> No, she's sweet.
1:28:34>> Oh, yeah. She's sweet.
1:28:36>> Okay. Do you know why you said she?
1:28:37That's she's sweet. That's your sister.
1:28:40That's the person that you loved. Look
1:28:42at me when I speak to you. That is the
1:28:44person that you have taken care of for
1:28:47years. I know all of her history. I know
1:28:50all of her problems. I have gone to all
1:28:52of your associates, all of your friends,
1:28:55and found out what kind of person I'm
1:28:56sitting in this room with right now.
1:28:58Mhm.
1:28:58>> I'm well aware of it. And you're paying
1:29:01your penance right now. I I see what
1:29:02you're doing. I see what you've done
1:29:05since you've left this residence
1:29:07>> and you're sorry for what happened. But
1:29:09you're going to have to tell us that.
1:29:11And if you want to go over this with me,
1:29:13I will be glad to tell you
1:29:16that I have been to
1:29:18your doctor and her doctor's office.
1:29:22Do you want me to tell you the doctor's
1:29:23name?
1:29:25>> Okay.
1:29:26Do you want to tell me the doctor's
1:29:27name? Uh,
1:29:29>> Dr. Rol, hasn't it?
1:29:31>> Let me help you with that.
1:29:34Dr. Wit.
1:29:35>> Dr. Wit.
1:29:36>> Yeah. Do you know how I identified your
1:29:39sister?
1:29:43>> No.
1:29:44>> I just gave you a big hint.
1:29:48>> Doctor,
1:29:49>> how would the doctor identify your
1:29:51sister if I can't identify her from a
1:29:52picture?
1:29:53>> I don't know.
1:29:54>> Think for me.
1:29:56because he knows her. I guess
1:29:58>> he knows her and she had medical
1:29:59problems which were
1:30:02>> I don't know honestly.
1:30:04>> Barbara, you took her to the doctor's
1:30:06office frequently. You had to walk miles
1:30:10to get I'm not going to say the word
1:30:12medicine, but something that she needed.
1:30:15She had to have it to survive.
1:30:20You took care of this girl probably your
1:30:23entire life
1:30:26>> and you're going to sit here and tell me
1:30:28you don't know her.
1:30:30Tell me her medical conditions that she
1:30:32had. Tell me the first one.
1:30:36>> Probably back problems. I don't know
1:30:38>> what would they call it. What was it
1:30:39diagnosed as?
1:30:40>> I don't know.
1:30:42>> Barbara, tell me another
1:30:44>> Tell me another problem that she had.
1:30:49Borderline diabetes, I guess. I don't
1:30:51know.
1:30:51>> Borderline or diabetic?
1:30:53>> I guess diabetic. I'm not sure.
1:30:55>> You went You walked to the store to get
1:30:58her what?
1:30:59>> Medicine.
1:31:00>> No. Well, maybe medicine, but something
1:31:03else. She would just tell you, "I need
1:31:04this." And you had to go take care of
1:31:05it. You didn't have a car.
1:31:08>> Right.
1:31:08>> What was it?
1:31:10>> I don't know.
1:31:12There's so many things I've done, but I
1:31:14don't know.
1:31:15>> What have you done for her? Tell me.
1:31:18>> I don't know. Actually, I don't know.
1:31:22I'm telling you the truth.
1:31:25>> Barbara,
1:31:28>> don't minimize. Tell me what you have
1:31:29done for this girl right here.
1:31:33You've looked after her for
1:31:3630 plus years, if not longer than that.
1:31:41>> I guess
1:31:43I don't remember, honestly.
1:31:46Have I lied to you today?
1:31:47>> No.
1:31:48>> Am I lying to you now?
1:31:49>> No.
1:31:49>> Okay.
1:31:51>> You think I'm lying?
1:31:52>> No. You You don't No. Oh, no. No. Do you
1:31:54know what you're doing?
1:31:55>> No.
1:31:56>> I don't remember.
1:31:57>> I don't honestly.
1:32:04>> Look at the pictures again, please. Is
1:32:06the person that you cared for for your
1:32:09adult life?
1:32:12>> Is that what you saying? You went to
1:32:14Australia with her?
1:32:16>> No, I don't remember going to Australia
1:32:18with her.
1:32:19>> You went to Australia with her when you
1:32:20got your inheritance?
1:32:26>> I don't know about that.
1:32:28>> Has she ever gone to California with
1:32:29you?
1:32:30>> No.
1:32:32>> So, will there be reasons why you we
1:32:35have pictures of you and her in
1:32:36California together?
1:32:38>> Really?
1:32:38>> Mhm.
1:32:40>> Um, at your soap opera meeting? Oh.
1:32:44>> Oh,
1:32:45>> maybe that's where I met her.
1:32:47>> She's your sister.
1:32:49>> I don't remember having a sister.
1:32:51>> Which doesn't mean you didn't have one.
1:32:53You just don't remember it.
1:32:54>> Right.
1:32:58>> Barbara, what will it take for you to be
1:33:01honest with us? You've been doing so
1:33:03good and now all of a sudden you're just
1:33:05going downhill. Okay. And I can tell
1:33:08that you want to talk to us cuz you're
1:33:10sitting here.
1:33:11>> Okay. And every time we say stuff,
1:33:13they're shaking your head. Yes.
1:33:15>> Right.
1:33:16>> Okay.
1:33:18So, what will it take for you to come
1:33:20clean and tell admit that that's your
1:33:23sister?
1:33:24>> Okay.
1:33:25>> Okay.
1:33:27>> What will it take?
1:33:29>> Okay. So, she's my sister.
1:33:30>> She's your sister. Okay.
1:33:32>> Okay.
1:33:32>> Very good. Very good.
1:33:34>> I'm going to cry.
1:33:36>> Okay. Well,
1:33:36>> all right.
1:33:37>> And can we get tissue? Yes, it is. All
1:33:39right. Okay.
1:33:42I didn't do anything wrong.
1:33:45>> I'm sorry. Well, I didn't hear I'm
1:33:46sorry.
1:33:47>> I didn't do anything wrong.
1:33:48>> You didn't do anything wrong? Okay.
1:33:50Well, tell me what do you mean by that?
1:33:52>> I just I She is my sister.
1:33:56>> Okay. Okay. Okay.
1:33:57>> Well, that's it. I left. She was fine.
1:34:02>> You left? She was fine. Okay.
1:34:03>> Yeah, she was doing good. She waved to
1:34:05me and everything.
1:34:06>> Okay. Let's go back to when when was
1:34:08this that what time was it that you left
1:34:10then? What time?
1:34:11>> Yeah. I mean, what? Because you've come
1:34:13and gone. Okay.
1:34:15>> I would say in the morning.
1:34:17>> In the morning. And what month are we
1:34:18looking at here?
1:34:21>> God, I don't know.
1:34:23I have no idea. What month?
1:34:26>> Okay. I mean, last week, a month ago,
1:34:30>> I don't know.
1:34:31>> Okay. Let's back. Where did you wave to
1:34:32her at? What house was she living at
1:34:35that time?
1:34:35>> At Yellow Point.
1:34:35>> At Yellow Point. Okay. And you got into
1:34:38How did you leave that? I just uh got in
1:34:41the van and left.
1:34:42>> You got in the van and left? Okay. Where
1:34:43did you go when you left?
1:34:44>> I went to the bus station.
1:34:45>> Is that when you came here then? Okay.
1:34:48You you left the the van at the bus
1:34:51station,
1:34:51>> right?
1:34:52>> Took a bus to Virginia. Okay. Okay.
1:34:55Right.
1:34:55>> So, that was just the most recent trip
1:34:57you had then,
1:34:57>> right?
1:34:58>> Okay.
1:34:59>> And did we decide when that was? When
1:35:02did you take the bus? What month was
1:35:03that?
1:35:04>> It was in October.
1:35:05>> October. Okay. So, is it safe to say
1:35:07that was the last time you would have
1:35:08saw your sister then? If she waved to
1:35:10you, right?
1:35:11>> Okay. Who else was in the house when she
1:35:13waved to you?
1:35:13>> Cindy, she was in the house,
1:35:16>> but I don't know her last name.
1:35:17>> Okay. Okay. That um were the trailers
1:35:21that How long did you actually live in a
1:35:23trailer? That trailer.
1:35:25>> Honestly.
1:35:26>> Honestly. And you're doing good. Let's
1:35:27not go backwards. Okay. Well, let's not
1:35:29Okay.
1:35:30>> I think about three or four years. I'm
1:35:32not sure.
1:35:32>> Three or four years in a Okay. um
1:35:36in the trailer park because we were
1:35:38there for a few days. Okay. And would
1:35:41you say there's probably more white
1:35:43people there? More Asian people there?
1:35:46More
1:35:46>> probably more white.
1:35:47>> Okay. How many Asian people did you see
1:35:50there?
1:35:51>> Maybe about one.
1:35:52>> Okay. How many black people did you see
1:35:53there?
1:35:54>> I didn't see any.
1:35:55>> You didn't see any? Okay. And if we
1:35:57asked your neighbors the same question
1:35:58that I just asked you in reference to
1:36:00Asians, whites, blacks,
1:36:02>> she would probably say the same thing.
1:36:04I'm not sure
1:36:04>> that no Asian or maybe one Asian
1:36:07>> maybe one
1:36:07>> but no blacks. No.
1:36:08>> Okay.
1:36:10>> And we How many trailers do you think is
1:36:12in that area?
1:36:14>> Oh god.
1:36:14>> A lot. Right. Okay. Our other detectives
1:36:16know that cuz we made them go to each
1:36:18one of them.
1:36:18>> Okay. So there is a lot. Okay.
1:36:21>> And would it be safe to say that they
1:36:23said they've never seen a black person?
1:36:26>> I never seen one.
1:36:27>> Okay. Then how do you how can you tell
1:36:30since Cindy was
1:36:31>> Well, Cindy is black and she was there.
1:36:34>> Why wouldn't people see her though and
1:36:35tell us that?
1:36:36>> I don't know. I have no idea.
1:36:40I have no idea whatsoever.
1:36:42>> I have an idea.
1:36:44>> What?
1:36:45>> I don't think there was a Cindy.
1:36:47>> So, you think I'm making her up? I think
1:36:49maybe because Cindy was somebody safe at
1:36:52the beginning of our conversation,
1:36:55but now since you brought for you came
1:36:57forward and said there is a Deborah or a
1:36:59Debbie. Okay, then maybe we don't need
1:37:02Cindy anymore.
1:37:04>> What do you think about that?
1:37:06>> I don't know.
1:37:07>> Well, yes, you do. Barbara, you're a
1:37:09very smart person. Okay, I think
1:37:12detected you agree with me. Very smart.
1:37:14When you say you only have a ninth grade
1:37:16education, you must be very street
1:37:17smart. Yeah.
1:37:20>> Very okay. Very knowledgeable.
1:37:23>> Okay.
1:37:25And by telling you that, I think you're
1:37:28knowledgeable enough to know there's a
1:37:30Debbie that lived in your trailer
1:37:32>> and not a Cindy.
1:37:34>> Mhm. There was a girl there.
1:37:37>> Okay. Then who was the girl?
1:37:39>> I don't know. I say still say it's
1:37:41Cindy.
1:37:41>> And you're saying she's a black, you
1:37:43know,
1:37:43>> cuz she that's what she told me.
1:37:45>> She told you she was black. Well, she
1:37:47was kind of white and black, you know,
1:37:49like mixed.
1:37:52>> We're going backwards, though.
1:37:53>> Okay,
1:37:54>> we're going backwards. I thought we got
1:37:55here.
1:37:56>> Yeah.
1:37:56>> Okay. We just had a big breakthrough.
1:37:58>> Okay. In front of you that you're
1:37:59admitting that you have a sister
1:38:01>> and I would think you'd want everybody
1:38:03to know she's a very pretty girl.
1:38:05>> Oh, yeah.
1:38:05>> And I didn't know her, but by you saying
1:38:07she's a very sweet girl.
1:38:10>> Okay.
1:38:11>> Yeah.
1:38:12>> Let's not discredit this anymore. Okay.
1:38:15>> Okay. Let's go back to Cindy.
1:38:17>> Okay.
1:38:18>> Okay. Was there a Cindy that lived with
1:38:20you?
1:38:20>> Yes, there was.
1:38:22>> So, we have Cindy's prints all over that
1:38:24house.
1:38:25>> You don't
1:38:28know.
1:38:28>> What do you think?
1:38:29>> Then she didn't. She wasn't there.
1:38:31>> Okay.
1:38:32>> So, can we go back one more time? Can we
1:38:35say there was no Cindy?
1:38:36>> Okay. No Cindy.
1:38:38>> I want to hear it from you, not from me.
1:38:40Is that a truth or a lie when I say
1:38:41that?
1:38:42>> Say truth.
1:38:42>> Okay.
1:38:44>> Okay. Okay. So, now we're back to just
1:38:46you and your sister.
1:38:47>> Okay.
1:38:48>> So, you're the sole person in this
1:38:49trailer.
1:38:51>> Is Debbie caring for you all the time or
1:38:54are you caring for
1:38:54>> D? Car Debbie.
1:38:56>> Okay. Let's talk about that then.
1:38:58>> Okay.
1:38:59>> Okay. What was the daily What was the a
1:39:02daily routine?
1:39:03>> I always worked and she stayed at home.
1:39:06>> Okay.
1:39:06>> That's the only thing.
1:39:08>> Okay. You work on your feet pretty much
1:39:11>> all the time. And that would just have
1:39:13to kill your feet and your legs because
1:39:15you told me about your medical. Okay. So
1:39:18you would come home. What what shift did
1:39:20you usually work at?
1:39:21>> All shifts.
1:39:21>> All shifts. So kind of how did you get
1:39:24to and from work?
1:39:25>> We had a car.
1:39:26>> Okay. So you drove the car. Okay. So you
1:39:27come home after probably a long busy
1:39:29day.
1:39:30>> And what would you do then?
1:39:31>> Cook dinner.
1:39:32>> Okay. For who?
1:39:34>> For Debbie and me.
1:39:35>> Okay. Then what did you do after you
1:39:37cooked dinner?
1:39:37>> Relaxed.
1:39:38>> Did you get to?
1:39:39>> Mhm.
1:39:40>> Okay. Who did like the laundry?
1:39:42>> We both did.
1:39:43>> Okay. Who cleaned the house?
1:39:44>> We both did.
1:39:45>> Okay. Um, who had a if you had to run to
1:39:49the store to get stuff?
1:39:50>> I did.
1:39:50>> You did that. Okay. So, probably who had
1:39:53more of a relaxed life? She did. She
1:39:55did. Okay. Cuz you cared for her.
1:39:57>> And how long have you been caring for
1:39:58her?
1:40:00>> Years, I would say.
1:40:02>> Okay. Was she getting better as she got
1:40:04older or was she getting worse?
1:40:06>> She was getting worse.
1:40:06>> Okay. Tell me about that. What? How was
1:40:08she getting worse? Uh, her back would be
1:40:10hurting her more and more every day.
1:40:13>> Okay. Was she on medication or anything?
1:40:15>> I guess I think she was on quite a bit
1:40:17>> like pain medication or just Okay.
1:40:19>> Pain medication.
1:40:20>> Okay. Who would have to go pick that up?
1:40:22>> Me.
1:40:23>> Okay. Who paid for that?
1:40:24>> Me.
1:40:24>> Really? Okay.
1:40:26>> Okay.
1:40:26>> Yeah.
1:40:30>> What type of a person was she referenced
1:40:33to um your your sister? So, I'm sure
1:40:35you're going to have good days and bad
1:40:36days. Okay. But was she real likable or
1:40:40was she hard?
1:40:41>> She was likable.
1:40:42>> Likable.
1:40:42>> Like all the people that detected Judy
1:40:44talked about,
1:40:45>> would they say she was a nice person or
1:40:48>> I would think they would say that.
1:40:49>> Okay. Was she nice to you?
1:40:52>> She was very nice.
1:40:53>> Did she have Was she appreciative for
1:40:55everything you did?
1:40:56>> Oh. Oh, yeah. She was very appreciative.
1:40:58>> Appreciative. She told you all the time,
1:41:00"Thank you for doing this."
1:41:02>> Yeah.
1:41:02>> Okay. Did she ever get to the point
1:41:04where she kind of thought that you you
1:41:07um like owed it to her and that was just
1:41:08kind of your duty since you were the
1:41:10older sister?
1:41:11>> No, I don't think she ever thought that.
1:41:13>> Okay. Did you ever feel that she took
1:41:14advantage of you?
1:41:16>> Maybe a couple times, but that's it.
1:41:18>> Okay.
1:41:21>> What else can you tell me about Debbie?
1:41:24>> Nothing much really. Just that she
1:41:26stayed home a lot and she loved
1:41:28computers.
1:41:28>> Did she? What' she do in the computer?
1:41:30>> Oh, I don't know.
1:41:31>> Okay. That was her privacy.
1:41:33>> That was her p. Okay. Did you ever um
1:41:36did you guys have separate computers
1:41:38then? Okay. Okay.
1:41:41>> Did you ever see what she did on the
1:41:43computers? I mean, did she like just do
1:41:44games like you do or?
1:41:46>> Uh, no. I think she was more like talk
1:41:48to other people.
1:41:49>> Okay. So, she's kind of outside.
1:41:51>> Yeah.
1:41:51>> Oh, okay.
1:41:52>> I was more on the inside.
1:41:53>> You're more inside. Okay.
1:41:55>> Oh, you're probably out. You're a game
1:41:57person. Well, you're out all day with
1:41:58people. You probably don't need to talk
1:41:59to people when you come home, right? And
1:42:01then she does she get out much? Did
1:42:03Debbie get to do sometimes?
1:42:05>> Okay. When she What would she go out for
1:42:07if she left the house?
1:42:08>> Sometimes she go to the mall, but she
1:42:10goes with me.
1:42:11>> You had to take her then,
1:42:12>> right? She never went up by. So,
1:42:14>> did she ever have a good friend that
1:42:15would could come and pick her up and
1:42:17give you a break or anything like that
1:42:18or come over?
1:42:19>> She did. I don't know anything about it.
1:42:21>> So, more than likely probably not. Then,
1:42:23>> she had a boyfriend, but I don't know
1:42:25his name. Okay. Okay.
1:42:34Who do you think the body is that we
1:42:37found in this trailer?
1:42:38>> I don't know. Debbie,
1:42:41>> is that what you're telling me?
1:42:43>> What do you think?
1:42:44>> I don't know.
1:42:46>> Okay. You're saying you waved to her?
1:42:48>> Mhm. I waved to her honestly.
1:42:50>> And when did you talk to her after that?
1:42:53>> When? I haven't.
1:42:55>> So, you haven't had any contact with
1:42:57her,
1:42:57>> right?
1:42:58>> Okay. We're talking the October talking
1:43:01in Thanksgiving.
1:43:02>> Mhm.
1:43:03>> No contact with her. Didn't hear from
1:43:04her at all.
1:43:06>> Um,
1:43:08Christmas.
1:43:10>> No.
1:43:11>> New Year's.
1:43:12>> No. Nothing.
1:43:18>> I just told her I needed some downtime,
1:43:21you know.
1:43:22>> Okay.
1:43:22>> That's what I told her. And she said,
1:43:24"Okay."
1:43:24>> But have you ever left her before for
1:43:26down time?
1:43:27>> Oh, yeah.
1:43:28I left her for four once.
1:43:30>> One. Um, what is she? 38? No. 40.
1:43:35>> 41.
1:43:35>> 41. Oh, okay.
1:43:37>> Yeah.
1:43:37>> And only one time you've ever left her,
1:43:39right?
1:43:39>> How long was that for?
1:43:40>> Oh, about a day or two.
1:43:42>> Wow. Now we're talking October, though.
1:43:45>> Yeah, I know.
1:43:46>> How did she get How did she get her
1:43:47mess? And how did she get her food?
1:43:49>> I'm sure she probably has somebody to
1:43:51bring it to her.
1:43:54Barbara, just by sitting here talking to
1:43:56you, there's no way you would leave
1:43:59anybody
1:44:02behind who needed you as much as she
1:44:04needed you.
1:44:05>> Why you say that?
1:44:06>> Because you're a good person. You're a
1:44:08kind person.
1:44:10>> Okay.
1:44:13There's no way.
1:44:15I bet you're the type of person that I
1:44:18guess I'm saying that because I'm a mom.
1:44:23meet people like you that have to take
1:44:26care of siblings.
1:44:28And I think I'm not saying she had the
1:44:30mentality of a smart person, but you had
1:44:32to care for her.
1:44:36Kids are small enough that I can put
1:44:37stuff up high. I don't have to worry
1:44:39about I bet you had to worry about her.
1:44:41Is she taking what she needs to take? Is
1:44:43she when I'm at work, is she eating? You
1:44:45know, will she stay in the house? Am I
1:44:47worried? Okay. Mhm.
1:44:49>> And you did that for over 40 years and
1:44:52then you're just going to pick up and
1:44:53walk out back.
1:44:56>> People do do that.
1:44:57>> People do, but you're not that type of
1:44:59person.
1:44:59>> You don't think so?
1:45:00>> I know. So, I'll go that far. Okay. I've
1:45:04been doing this for 16 years.
1:45:06>> Okay. I'll go there, too.
1:45:07>> Well, you go that way. Okay.
1:45:11>> Okay.
1:45:13>> Okay.
1:45:14>> You need to tell us what happened. You
1:45:16need to paint the picture.
1:45:19Okay. And another thing, you're such I
1:45:23can tell anything inside of you is just
1:45:25eating away at you. Okay. Especially if
1:45:28this has been since let's say October
1:45:29that you left that house.
1:45:31>> Okay. There's no way
1:45:35that you walked out of that house and
1:45:37she was waving to you.
1:45:38>> Why not? Because that's what she was.
1:45:41>> Actually, what you said, Barbara, and
1:45:42it's on tape. You said you wave to her.
1:45:45And I believe that 100%.
1:45:49She couldn't have laid back to you. It's
1:45:51impossible. Physically impossible.
1:45:53>> Why?
1:45:54>> Hold on. Barbara, all the people that we
1:45:56have interviewed, they said Barbara is
1:46:00unbelievable person. This is how we
1:46:02found out who you were. Just your
1:46:04chemical makeup, what kind of
1:46:05personality you were. And I'm sorry to
1:46:07tell you this, but the word that was
1:46:10used to describe Debbie, your sister who
1:46:12you love, was a [ __ ] And I I apologize
1:46:16to use that language in front of you.
1:46:17She was demanding. I'm not making this
1:46:20up.
1:46:20>> Yeah, I know. She was demanding.
1:46:22>> Okay. And they said they did not
1:46:24understand how you could You were a
1:46:27saint with what you put up with her.
1:46:29>> I had to be
1:46:31>> I know.
1:46:34You would go out and start to have a
1:46:35good time at a dinner at a birthday and
1:46:37she would tell you, "Let's go." She was
1:46:40selfish and she was rude to you.
1:46:47Yeah.
1:46:48>> What happened?
1:46:50>> Nothing happened.
1:46:52>> I didn't do anything.
1:46:54>> Farmer, you couldn't take it anymore.
1:46:56>> You're right. I couldn't.
1:47:04Make us understand. Okay. Make us We're
1:47:07here to hear your side of the story,
1:47:09okay? We took that time to come up here
1:47:11and talk to you. You need forgiveness.
1:47:14>> What's going to happen to me?
1:47:16>> Barbara, tell us what happened.
1:47:18>> I can't. Can you tell me what's going to
1:47:20happen to me?
1:47:21>> Until we know why. We know what
1:47:23happened. We know who I'm not lying to
1:47:25you. We know who did it. You got to tell
1:47:27us why you did it. Right now, it looks
1:47:29cold.
1:47:31>> I don't know why.
1:47:34>> Did she push you and push you and push
1:47:36you?
1:47:36>> Yes, she did. She kept pushing.
1:47:40>> Are you sorry? Oh yeah, definitely.
1:47:43>> Then tell us how you're sorry.
1:47:46>> I'm just sorry that I did it.
1:47:49I'm very sorry. I wish you was alive.
1:47:53>> Is it eating at you?
1:47:56>> Yeah.
1:47:58>> Yeah, it is.
1:47:59>> It's going to feel better when you get
1:48:01it off your chest. I promise.
1:48:02>> No, it's not.
1:48:03>> I promise it will.
1:48:04>> No, it won't.
1:48:05>> Barbara, you said yourself. Let's go
1:48:07back to your faith. Okay. You said
1:48:09you're Catholic. Okay.
1:48:11>> Yeah, but I haven't been in the church.
1:48:13>> It's all right.
1:48:13>> It doesn't matter. Where does Jesus
1:48:15live, though?
1:48:17>> Okay. And in your heart,
1:48:19>> correct?
1:48:20>> Yeah.
1:48:20>> Okay. So, you don't have to walk into a
1:48:22room that has four walls and a roof.
1:48:24Okay.
1:48:25>> Okay. You're a good Like I said, I'm not
1:48:27lying to you. I'd tell you right now if
1:48:28I didn't think you were a good person.
1:48:30Okay. We wouldn't be sitting here right
1:48:31now if we didn't think you're a good
1:48:33person. And we know that you have a
1:48:35story you need to tell. Okay?
1:48:38>> This is your chance. We want to hear
1:48:40your side of the story.
1:48:41>> She was really mean to me.
1:48:43>> Okay.
1:48:44>> Yeah. Pushing me.
1:48:45>> Okay.
1:48:46>> You know, I just couldn't take it.
1:48:48>> Okay. So, what happened?
1:48:51>> I don't know. I can't remember.
1:48:54Honestly, I can't.
1:48:57She just kept pushing me. That's all. I
1:49:01just
1:49:02I thought enough was enough.
1:49:04>> Okay. So, what happened?
1:49:08I don't know.
1:49:11I honestly
1:49:12>> You're doing so good. Okay.
1:49:16Okay. You're doing so good. You're
1:49:17coming. So, she's gone so far.
1:49:19>> What happened to me?
1:49:21>> We don't know cuz we don't know what
1:49:22happened. Okay.
1:49:26There's so many things, you know, that
1:49:28could happen to you, but we don't know
1:49:29what, you know, once we know what
1:49:31happened, then we can tell you, okay,
1:49:33this is, you know, this is what
1:49:34happened. This is the cause. this is
1:49:36what's going to happen to you. Okay? We
1:49:38don't know. We don't know what we have
1:49:40here. Okay? We don't know if you just
1:49:42came home one night and said, "You know
1:49:43what? I'm sick of her and and you you
1:49:45need to kill her." Okay? It's just just
1:49:48for the hell of it. You had nothing
1:49:49better to do that night. Okay? Or you
1:49:51came home so high that or so drunk that
1:49:53you didn't know what you're doing. Okay.
1:49:55Well, do we I don't want to paint that
1:49:57ugly picture of you cuz I don't think
1:49:58that's true. Is that true? No. And is it
1:50:01something that just happened like that
1:50:03or is it something that just kept going
1:50:04and going and going to boom?
1:50:06>> It just kept going.
1:50:07>> Okay. So tell us about that.
1:50:11>> That's it. Just kept going.
1:50:13>> Okay.
1:50:13>> I just could take it.
1:50:15>> Okay. So what did you do so you wouldn't
1:50:17have to worry about taking it anymore?
1:50:19>> Okay.
1:50:21Where'd you shoot her at?
1:50:23>> In the head.
1:50:24>> In the hair. Head. Okay. And where at?
1:50:27>> In the bedroom.
1:50:28>> Okay. In whose bedroom was it? upstairs.
1:50:31>> You guys share the same bedroom?
1:50:33>> Yeah. So, I moved my bed into the back
1:50:35room.
1:50:35>> Okay. Why did you share a bed bedroom
1:50:37with her?
1:50:38>> Cuz she couldn't stand to be alone.
1:50:40>> So, you didn't have any break from her
1:50:42then?
1:50:42>> No.
1:50:44>> Not at all.
1:50:47>> Okay. What was she doing when you shot
1:50:49her?
1:50:49>> Sleeping.
1:50:50>> Sleeping.
1:50:51>> No.
1:50:52>> Okay.
1:50:55What pushed you to that point, though? I
1:50:58mean, if she was sleeping, what what
1:51:00happened?
1:51:01>> Did we argue that night?
1:51:02>> Okay. What did you argue about?
1:51:04>> Oh, everything.
1:51:05>> Just
1:51:05>> every little thing. Everything. She need
1:51:08She needed pills and I didn't have the
1:51:10money and she started yelling.
1:51:12>> Okay.
1:51:12>> And stuff like that. She gets kind of
1:51:14yelling.
1:51:15>> Is she a yeller?
1:51:16>> Yeah.
1:51:16>> How about that's verbal? Does she do
1:51:18stuff physically?
1:51:19>> Sometimes she would hit me.
1:51:20>> She would hit wherever she hits you at
1:51:22>> in the arm, you know. But I couldn't hit
1:51:24her back, you know. Why not?
1:51:27>> Cuz she's my sister.
1:51:30>> Just that night we fight so bad. I just
1:51:33couldn't take it anymore.
1:51:36>> Honestly.
1:51:36>> Okay. So, she's sleeping in bed. What
1:51:40made her finally go to bed?
1:51:42>> Just she wanted to go to bed.
1:51:45>> Okay.
1:51:46>> And I told her I'll be in there in a
1:51:47little while.
1:51:48>> Okay. How long do you think she was
1:51:49sleeping?
1:51:50>> Oh, I don't know.
1:51:51>> Okay.
1:51:51>> For sure.
1:51:52>> I mean, a couple minutes or
1:51:54>> Oh, probably longer than that. Did you
1:51:56know she was sleeping?
1:51:57>> How did you know she was sleeping?
1:51:58>> She snores.
1:51:59>> She Okay. You know that? Cuz you sleep
1:52:01in the room with there. Okay.
1:52:02>> Right.
1:52:03>> So then what happened? She's in the bed
1:52:04snoring. Then what do you do?
1:52:06>> I just went into the bedroom receptor.
1:52:08>> Okay. Where did you get the gun at?
1:52:10>> I bought it.
1:52:11>> Okay. Where'd you buy the gun at?
1:52:13>> I got at the um
1:52:16I can't think of the name. Um pawn shop.
1:52:20>> A pawn shop. Do you remember which one
1:52:21it was?
1:52:22>> On Central Avenue. was the only one
1:52:24>> on central.
1:52:25>> What did you pay for?
1:52:27>> Maybe about 60 or 70 because that was
1:52:30for protection.
1:52:31>> For protection
1:52:31>> because she was afraid.
1:52:33>> Oh. So, how long have you had the gun
1:52:34then?
1:52:34>> I had it for a couple years.
1:52:36>> Oh, okay. Okay. So, you just didn't get
1:52:38it a few days before. Okay. Well, let's
1:52:40go back. Where did you keep the gun at
1:52:41in the house?
1:52:42>> I kept it in the drawer.
1:52:43>> What drawer? What drawer?
1:52:45>> Dress or drawer
1:52:46>> in
1:52:47>> I think the third one. I'm not sure. The
1:52:49fourth one
1:52:50>> in your bedroom or both.
1:52:51>> Both of your guys. The bedroom. Okay.
1:52:53Yeah. Did she ever touch the gun or do
1:52:56anything with the gun?
1:52:57>> Okay. Did she know you had a gun in the
1:52:59house?
1:52:59>> No.
1:52:59>> No. Okay. But
1:53:00>> I told I kept telling her that we should
1:53:03get a gun, but I was afraid to tell her.
1:53:05>> Okay. Why would you be afraid to tell
1:53:06her that?
1:53:06>> Because she would have got mad.
1:53:08>> Okay. Why would she got mad?
1:53:09>> Cuz she doesn't like guns.
1:53:10>> Oh, she doesn't like guns. Okay. But you
1:53:12felt better for protection.
1:53:13>> Yeah. For her.
1:53:14>> Okay. So, was a gun in that like that
1:53:17third drawer that night then?
1:53:21Okay. Okay. So, you walk in the bedroom.
1:53:23She's sleeping cuz she's nowhere. And
1:53:25you take the gun. Okay.
1:53:27>> Yes.
1:53:28>> Did it.
1:53:31>> That was it.
1:53:31>> Was she awake?
1:53:33>> Okay.
1:53:35>> Did she wake up? Did she
1:53:39How many times did you shoot her?
1:53:41>> Once.
1:53:41>> Okay.
1:53:43What do you remember? What by pulling
1:53:45the trigger?
1:53:48>> Just did it.
1:53:48>> What was going through your head that
1:53:50time? I don't know. I really don't know.
1:53:53>> Okay.
1:53:54>> I mean, you know, I was so mad.
1:53:57>> You were still mad from
1:53:59>> when we argued.
1:54:00>> Okay.
1:54:02>> My thing.
1:54:03>> Okay. You think it was just a few
1:54:04minutes in between the argument or
1:54:07>> It could have been
1:54:08>> after she went to bed, what did you do?
1:54:10>> I just try to calm down.
1:54:12>> Try to calm down,
1:54:12>> but it didn't work.
1:54:14>> Okay. Well, how what did you do to try
1:54:16to calm down? Do you watch TV?
1:54:17>> Watch TV. Okay. Do you remember what you
1:54:19watched? No.
1:54:20>> How long you watched it for?
1:54:22>> No, I don't remember.
1:54:24>> Honestly, I don't.
1:54:25>> And then after you got done watching TV,
1:54:27what did you do then?
1:54:28>> Just went into the bedroom,
1:54:30>> just shot her.
1:54:31>> Okay. What'd you do after that?
1:54:35>> Walked out.
1:54:36>> Then what?
1:54:37>> Nothing.
1:54:38>> Nothing.
1:54:39>> I should have called somebody.
1:54:41>> When did it When did you realize what
1:54:43you did?
1:54:44>> The next day.
1:54:45>> The next day. Okay. Where did you was
1:54:47this? What time do you think this was in
1:54:49the day?
1:54:50>> Probably about 9 or 10.
1:54:54>> Okay. Um, so then what did you go to
1:54:56work the next day?
1:54:58>> Mhm.
1:54:58>> Okay.
1:55:00>> Yeah.
1:55:00>> And did you go back in that bed? I mean,
1:55:02where was your clothes at for work and
1:55:04stuff like that?
1:55:04>> I put it in the other bedroom.
1:55:06>> Okay. When did you move everything into
1:55:07the other bedroom?
1:55:08>> That was the two days before we had that
1:55:12argument.
1:55:13>> I told her I need to go into the
1:55:15bedroom. Oh, yeah. In the bedroom.
1:55:17>> Okay. So, you had already kind of moved
1:55:19to the other bedroom only two days.
1:55:20Okay.
1:55:21>> Okay. So,
1:55:23I did you that morning when you went to
1:55:25work, did you go into the bedroom and
1:55:27see her there or did you do it?
1:55:29>> I didn't I just kept the door closed.
1:55:31>> You kept the door closed?
1:55:33>> Okay.
1:55:34Then what happened? You go to work and
1:55:36then you come home. Then what?
1:55:38>> That's it. Nothing. I didn't know what
1:55:40to do. I didn't know if I if I called
1:55:43the cops, they would arrested me.
1:55:45I don't know. I got scared.
1:55:48>> Okay.
1:55:49>> So, I ran like a chicken.
1:55:51>> No. When running, where did you run to?
1:55:54>> I just left.
1:55:55>> Okay.
1:55:56>> You know, I left the car behind and
1:55:58everything else and came out here.
1:55:59>> How long do you think she was there dead
1:56:03before
1:56:04you left? You left?
1:56:06>> I don't know.
1:56:07>> A day or two or
1:56:09>> maybe?
1:56:11I'm not sure.
1:56:13>> Okay. Do you have any idea when when
1:56:15when you shot her?
1:56:17>> No, I don't.
1:56:18>> You left I think you left Florida
1:56:20October 1st.
1:56:22>> Or was it October?
1:56:22>> October 1st. October 1st. And it looks
1:56:25like you quit Lowe's August 27th.
1:56:29>> Okay. So you said you went to work after
1:56:33she was dead.
1:56:34>> So that means you it had to be before
1:56:38August
1:56:39>> Yeah.
1:56:39>> 27th,
1:56:41>> maybe. I don't know. Could have been.
1:56:44I'm not sure.
1:56:46>> Okay. But you're sure you went to work
1:56:48one time when when she Okay. At least
1:56:50>> once. Once. Okay. Or could it be more?
1:56:52>> No, it was just once.
1:56:54>> Okay. Is that why maybe you quit then?
1:56:56>> Probably.
1:56:58>> Yeah,
1:56:58>> probably. Or that was the reason why.
1:57:00>> That was the reason.
1:57:01>> Why is that?
1:57:03>> I don't know.
1:57:06It's maybe because you're you're a type
1:57:08of person that just can't forget about
1:57:10what happened at home and you probably
1:57:11couldn't really concentrate at work, do
1:57:13you think? Or am I just throwing that
1:57:14out?
1:57:15>> No, you're right.
1:57:15>> Okay.
1:57:17>> Because I would think the type of person
1:57:19you're you're portraying us that you're
1:57:21very caring, loving person, and that
1:57:23would just have to eat you up.
1:57:26>> It does.
1:57:27>> Okay.
1:57:29Okay.
1:57:29>> So, now what's going
1:57:30>> Well, that's what we need to decide on.
1:57:33But we're talking about
1:57:34>> we got a lot more to go over a couple
1:57:37months though that the body was probably
1:57:39there. Your sister's probably there
1:57:41dead. Is that right?
1:57:42>> Before he left.
1:57:46>> What did you do with the body? And
1:57:49>> nothing.
1:57:52>> Well, let's let's back up for a second.
1:57:54Where did you shoot her at?
1:57:57>> Can you point to your where where?
1:57:59>> Right here.
1:58:00>> Okay. Okay. And how far away were you?
1:58:04>> I say she's there and I was right about
1:58:06there maybe.
1:58:08>> Okay. You're like a foot away, two foot
1:58:10away.
1:58:10>> Could be. I'm not sure.
1:58:12>> Would you say you were close to her or
1:58:13far away from her?
1:58:15>> Kind of in between.
1:58:17>> And you're very angry at the time.
1:58:20>> Yeah, cuz we had that big argument.
1:58:22>> Mhm. Where we get to the argument? Did
1:58:25you say anything before you shot her?
1:58:28>> I'm sorry.
1:58:29Did you say it out loud or to yourself?
1:58:31>> To myself.
1:58:33>> And did she do anything after she was
1:58:35shot?
1:58:37No.
1:58:38>> Okay. Do you remember how she was laying
1:58:39in bed?
1:58:40>> On her side, I think.
1:58:42>> Which side?
1:58:44>> I think left.
1:58:45>> She was laying on her left side.
1:58:46>> I think.
1:58:47>> Would she be more face up or face down?
1:58:49>> Faced up.
1:58:50>> Okay.
1:58:52Let me do me a favor. As we walk into
1:58:53that bedroom. Okay. Her bed was where?
1:58:56If you open up the door
1:58:58>> right there against the wall
1:58:59>> to the left.
1:59:00>> Yeah.
1:59:00>> Okay. So, the the the end of the bed
1:59:02would touch the side of the bed would
1:59:03touch the wall and the head of the bed
1:59:05would touch up by the window.
1:59:06>> Right.
1:59:06>> Is that right?
1:59:08>> Opposite of the door.
1:59:09>> Mhm.
1:59:09>> And that's where she was laying.
1:59:12>> Right.
1:59:12>> When this happened.
1:59:13>> Okay. Where was your bed?
1:59:16>> It was across from from her head to the
1:59:21>> like an L. Yeah.
1:59:22>> So, you were slept underneath the
1:59:23window.
1:59:24>> Yeah.
1:59:24>> Right. Okay. Okay. But you had since
1:59:26moved your bed out. Where was the gun
1:59:28kept at?
1:59:28>> In the dresser.
1:59:30>> That's in her bedroom or into your new
1:59:32bedroom.
1:59:32>> Her bedroom.
1:59:33>> Okay. She did not know about this.
1:59:34>> No.
1:59:35>> What kind of gun was it?
1:59:36>> I don't know.
1:59:38>> Well, what color was it?
1:59:39>> Black.
1:59:40>> Was black. Was it a
1:59:41>> small?
1:59:42>> Do you know the caliber?
1:59:44>> No, I know. The whole six bullets.
1:59:46>> Hold six bullets.
1:59:47>> Okay. And did you have six bullets in
1:59:49it?
1:59:50>> Yeah.
1:59:51>> Okay. Do you remember if it was a 38, a
1:59:53357?
1:59:55>> No, I don't know about guns.
1:59:57>> Okay. How big are the bullets that were
1:59:59in there?
2:00:00>> Maybe about that big.
2:00:01>> Okay. How thick?
2:00:04>> Only about that thick. I'm not sure.
2:00:07>> Okay. And you fired once?
2:00:08>> Once.
2:00:09>> Where's the gun now?
2:00:10>> In the dresser.
2:00:12>> It's in the dresser now.
2:00:14>> Right where I left it.
2:00:15>> Okay. And it's not the gun that I showed
2:00:17you a picture of.
2:00:17>> No, that's a MBI gun.
2:00:19>> Jimmy. Where's the dog?
2:00:22>> I put him in the in the home, you know,
2:00:25where they into a pound so he'd be safe
2:00:28because I couldn't care for him.
2:00:30>> Did you put him at the SPCA?
2:00:32>> Yeah.
2:00:33>> Where's the SPCA at?
2:00:35>> Oh, I think in Penllis.
2:00:37>> Well, I know in Penllis, but where?
2:00:38>> I don't know for sure. They uh the SPCA
2:00:42didn't take you because they were too
2:00:44full. So, they told me about another
2:00:46place, but I don't know the name of that
2:00:47place.
2:00:47>> Where was it at?
2:00:50I don't know. I don't know the road or
2:00:52anything.
2:00:53>> Okay.
2:00:55If you quit your job August 27th, which
2:00:58is when you didn't show up for work,
2:01:00they were at Jason was at your house
2:01:02September 1st and you wouldn't open the
2:01:04door,
2:01:04>> right?
2:01:05>> Because Debbie's in there dead,
2:01:06>> right?
2:01:06>> And she started to smell.
2:01:08>> I guess. Yeah, she did.
2:01:10>> Okay. I don't want to hear I guess. You
2:01:12tell. Okay. What did you do to prevent
2:01:16>> using what you just said? air fresheners
2:01:19and everything else.
2:01:20>> Okay. But you also did something else to
2:01:22her.
2:01:22>> Wrapped her in a like a like a bag or
2:01:26something like that.
2:01:28>> Okay. Tell me. You always throw
2:01:29something like that in there. Tell me.
2:01:30>> I know. I can't help it.
2:01:32>> I know. Tell me what it was.
2:01:34>> It's uh I think it's for like a fitted
2:01:37bed, you know, where you zip it up for
2:01:39protection for the bed.
2:01:40>> What was the material that was made out
2:01:42of?
2:01:42>> Plastic.
2:01:43>> Plastic. Okay. What else?
2:01:47A quilt.
2:01:48>> And a quilt. What was on the quilt?
2:01:52>> Nothing. Oh, well, actually, it was a
2:01:55tiger, I think it was.
2:01:56>> Okay. Something else.
2:01:59What were you guys big into?
2:02:02We found it all in the house.
2:02:04>> Country. Elvis.
2:02:07I don't know.
2:02:07>> A movie.
2:02:08>> A movie.
2:02:10>> Did you have a favorite movie?
2:02:12>> She did.
2:02:12>> Okay.
2:02:13>> Star Wars.
2:02:13>> Star Wars. Okay. So, that's the sheet.
2:02:15Why she's wrapped in a sheet like that?
2:02:17>> She had something on her face.
2:02:19>> Yeah, that was the quilt.
2:02:21>> What color was it?
2:02:22>> It was brown.
2:02:23>> Okay. Why was it baldled up like that?
2:02:26>> So she wouldn't scream or she might have
2:02:28woken up. I don't know. I'm not sure.
2:02:32>> Did you put it on her face before you
2:02:33shot her?
2:02:34>> After.
2:02:35>> After. Okay. And you baldled it up like
2:02:37that.
2:02:38>> Okay. Did she move or anything after she
2:02:41was shot?
2:02:42>> Just breathing.
2:02:43>> You did hear her breathe. I seen her
2:02:45breathing.
2:02:46>> Okay,
2:02:46>> that was it.
2:02:48>> Did she gurgle?
2:02:49>> She might have.
2:02:50>> Okay. She The position we found her in,
2:02:54she's sleeping on a pillow. Is that
2:02:56right?
2:02:57>> Mhm.
2:02:57>> On her
2:02:58>> side.
2:02:59>> Which side?
2:03:00>> Her left, I think.
2:03:01>> Okay. With her hands kind of like I am
2:03:03here, folded under her head.
2:03:04>> Mhm.
2:03:05>> Is that how you remember seeing her?
2:03:06>> Mhm.
2:03:07>> Right before you shot her.
2:03:09>> Right.
2:03:09>> She never woke up. As far as I know,
2:03:13>> the only thing you said,
2:03:15>> I was sorry.
2:03:16>> And you said it to yourself. Now,
2:03:18Catholics have like little prayers they
2:03:20say. Did you say anything like that?
2:03:22>> Yeah.
2:03:23>> What did you say?
2:03:24>> I was just saying for God to forgive me.
2:03:27>> Did you say a rosary? Anything?
2:03:28>> I don't know any rosary.
2:03:30>> Okay. I I didn't know.
2:03:32Um
2:03:35and then you put the gun back in the
2:03:36drawer.
2:03:41If you quit your job August the 27th,
2:03:43which we know for a fact,
2:03:46you obviously shot her before August
2:03:4727th.
2:03:49>> Okay.
2:03:49>> Okay.
2:03:50>> Do you remember when? What would be the
2:03:53earliest?
2:03:54>> I don't.
2:03:54>> How many days could you have possibly
2:03:56worked? The most amount of days you
2:03:57could have worked after this happened?
2:04:00>> Probably about the 15th
2:04:02>> of
2:04:02>> August.
2:04:03>> Of August. So for about two weeks. Okay.
2:04:06Did you turn your air condition way
2:04:08down?
2:04:09>> Yeah.
2:04:10>> Do you remember what temperature?
2:04:12>> No.
2:04:13>> What temperature did you normally keep
2:04:14it at?
2:04:16>> Probably 78. I'm not sure.
2:04:19>> Okay. And what do you think you turned
2:04:20it down to?
2:04:21>> Probably below.
2:04:23>> Below what?
2:04:24>> Bel. I'm not sure.
2:04:27>> Okay.
2:04:30So, just flip the tape over. It's 10:15.
2:04:33Um,
2:04:34turn it down as low as it would go.
2:04:36Okay. To keep it cold in there.
2:04:38>> Any other reason?
2:04:39>> No.
2:04:41No other reason that I could think of.
2:04:44>> To keep her from decomposing.
2:04:46>> Mhm.
2:04:47>> I would think so. Yeah.
2:04:48>> Well, I'm I'm not being mean. You were
2:04:50there. Is that the reason?
2:04:52>> Yeah.
2:04:52>> Is that the Okay.
2:04:53>> Yeah, that's the reason.
2:04:54>> Okay.
2:04:58When you went to the bus stop, you told
2:05:00your next door neighbor that you're
2:05:01going out to take care of a sick ant,
2:05:03>> right?
2:05:03>> Okay. So, everything that we've
2:05:04mentioned before today,
2:05:06>> wrong. I don't have a sick ant,
2:05:07>> right? But I mean, everything I told
2:05:08you, these people told me, they told me
2:05:10the truth,
2:05:11>> right? They told you the truth.
2:05:12>> Okay. And the reason you weren't
2:05:15truthful in the beginning.
2:05:16>> I was scared.
2:05:17>> You were scared. Okay.
2:05:19>> And rightfully so. Understandably so.
2:05:23Um, let's talk about her medical
2:05:24conditions.
2:05:26She has scoliosis.
2:05:27>> Scoliosis, which is the back problem you
2:05:29were describing, was she a diabetic?
2:05:32>> Yes. She was diabetic.
2:05:34>> When I was asking you what you had to go
2:05:35walk to the store to get for her.
2:05:38>> Everything.
2:05:38>> I know. What? Do you know what
2:05:39specifically I was talking about?
2:05:41>> No.
2:05:41>> Okay. The witnesses that your friends
2:05:44are telling me that you'd have to go get
2:05:45her sugar chocolate.
2:05:47>> Candy.
2:05:48>> Candy. Yeah.
2:05:49>> To me, that's Sorry, but
2:05:51chocolate. But
2:05:53>> and that was me. She's demanding on you.
2:05:55>> Yeah, she was very demanding.
2:05:59>> Okay.
2:06:00>> Because my mom spoiled her. My mom did
2:06:04everything for her.
2:06:05>> People have told us, and I'm not being
2:06:06mean, but people have told us that she
2:06:08was mentally challenged.
2:06:09>> Yeah.
2:06:09>> Mentally [ __ ] I've heard Down.
2:06:11She's not down syndrome. I can tell by
2:06:13looking at her. What was the diagnosis
2:06:15that you know? that they said that uh
2:06:18she has a
2:06:20maybe a six maybe about a third grader
2:06:23but that's it.
2:06:25>> What does that mean to you?
2:06:26>> That means she's like a child
2:06:28>> forever.
2:06:29>> Forever.
2:06:32>> You said you had a big argument right
2:06:34before this.
2:06:35>> Now when you say right before this,
2:06:36obviously that night or two days before?
2:06:38>> It was that night.
2:06:40>> What was the argument about? about me
2:06:42moving my bed and plus the medicine that
2:06:44I didn't have the money for.
2:06:46>> What medicine
2:06:47>> for her uh for her back?
2:06:49>> What was the medicine she needed?
2:06:51>> Um I don't know the name of it. I think
2:06:54it's golactin I think it was.
2:06:55>> What was it for?
2:06:56>> For her back. For pain.
2:06:58>> For pain. Okay. It was a pain medicine.
2:06:59>> Right.
2:07:00>> Now
2:07:02you said it was a big argument.
2:07:04>> Tell me to you tell me what a big
2:07:06argument means to you. A big argument is
2:07:09like yelling and pushing and hitting.
2:07:13That's a big argument.
2:07:14>> Did you have all that with her?
2:07:15>> Yeah.
2:07:16>> And she struck you?
2:07:17>> Yeah, she struck me.
2:07:18>> Did you ever have to push her back to
2:07:19keep her off you?
2:07:20>> I just walked away.
2:07:22>> I had to.
2:07:23>> And she's telling you what? What is she?
2:07:25>> She's mad because the fact I didn't have
2:07:27the money for her pills.
2:07:29>> But you work,
2:07:30>> she doesn't work,
2:07:31>> right?
2:07:32>> So really, it's her fault.
2:07:33>> Mhm.
2:07:34>> That she doesn't have any money. She
2:07:35only gets what? Social Security. I don't
2:07:37know how much.
2:07:38>> Okay.
2:07:40But I mean, she goes through it just
2:07:41with typical bills,
2:07:43>> right?
2:07:48>> What is different about this argument
2:07:50that causes you to do this than
2:07:52arguments that you've had previously as
2:07:54siblings?
2:07:55>> This was just the worst. I mean, this
2:07:57was the worst argument we ever had
2:08:00>> because
2:08:01>> because money problems and everything
2:08:04else, she thought she was going to be
2:08:05rich for life
2:08:07>> from
2:08:08>> from the inheritance.
2:08:10>> Okay. The inheritance that we talked
2:08:11about earlier or the one from Bobby
2:08:12Burns?
2:08:13>> From Johnny.
2:08:14>> Johnny.
2:08:15>> Johnny was my brother. He died.
2:08:19>> Mhm.
2:08:20>> And he was diabetic.
2:08:22>> Is he the one up in North?
2:08:23>> Yeah. Maryland.
2:08:24>> Maryland. Okay. What about Bobby Burns?
2:08:26He's my brother. He's in Maryland.
2:08:28>> Is he still alive?
2:08:30>> I guess.
2:08:31>> Okay. So, the inheritance is from John.
2:08:34>> What about your mom?
2:08:35>> I don't know about her inheritance.
2:08:37>> You didn't get that?
2:08:38>> I don't know for sure. I don't know if
2:08:40she had anything. I didn't know if she
2:08:42had life insurance or anything like
2:08:43that.
2:08:43>> She deceased,
2:08:44>> right?
2:08:45>> She died in 2000, right?
2:08:46>> Did you get any from it?
2:08:48I don't know for sure because the lawyer
2:08:51who was handling it just said that money
2:08:53was coming our way but he didn't say
2:08:55where or from. Only from Johnny he said
2:08:58>> and that how much was Johnny's.
2:08:59>> I think 100,000.
2:09:00>> So 50 each,
2:09:01>> right?
2:09:02>> That's how come we came up with that
2:09:03number.
2:09:03>> Yeah.
2:09:04>> Okay. So I I know
2:09:06>> and I understand you're in here. You're
2:09:07scared.
2:09:07>> Yeah.
2:09:08>> Um you know we're not lying to you. This
2:09:09is an important thing. But you know we
2:09:11have to figure out the truth,
2:09:13>> right?
2:09:13>> Okay. So the money has you gone through
2:09:15all the money?
2:09:16>> Oh yeah. It's all gone. So that's why
2:09:18she can't get her back pain pills,
2:09:20right?
2:09:20>> But she spent a lot of money.
2:09:22>> Yeah. She spent on everything
2:09:25>> like
2:09:26>> Oh, Star Wars. We went to Australia. We
2:09:29did go together.
2:09:30>> Yeah.
2:09:30>> And um everything she always wanted,
2:09:34want, you know, and I kept telling her,
2:09:36"Money is not going to last."
2:09:39>> You know, it was her idea to get the
2:09:41trailer, not mine. You know, I told her
2:09:44it's too big. Why would you Why would we
2:09:46need a threebedroom,
2:09:48>> you know,
2:09:49>> just the two of us?
2:09:51>> She wanted to keep her Star Wars into
2:09:53one room. That's what she wanted.
2:09:56>> Okay.
2:09:56>> So, you stop saw all the Star Wars,
2:09:58right?
2:09:59>> Oh, yeah. I showed you the pictures.
2:10:01>> Yeah.
2:10:01>> Most of them I could.
2:10:03>> Okay.
2:10:06after she's dead and you've wrapped her
2:10:09up and the way we found her, you know,
2:10:10of course with the that brown comforter
2:10:13you call I call it a blanket but a
2:10:14comforter that plastic. Where did you
2:10:16get the plastic from?
2:10:17>> Oh, I got it from Kmart.
2:10:19>> Okay. You went and got it from Kmart.
2:10:21Okay.
2:10:22>> No, I didn't plan this.
2:10:25>> No. And that's where we're trying to go
2:10:27with this. We're trying to understand
2:10:29everything that happened. You did
2:10:30something very suspicious.
2:10:32>> What? I'm going to come to it and I want
2:10:35to give you the exact date. You do
2:10:37realize that your neighbor next door
2:10:39>> kept notes.
2:10:40>> Oh, really?
2:10:41>> Yeah. She's very detailed person.
2:10:43>> Oh my gosh.
2:10:44>> You were seen digging a hole.
2:10:46>> Yeah. I was going to put uh cement there
2:10:48to make it more like um like an an extra
2:10:52driveway. Now, I was not going to bury
2:10:54her in there. I was not even thinking
2:10:56about that. I was just thinking about
2:10:59how to make another driveway, you know,
2:11:01instead of all those stones. I didn't
2:11:04like the stones.
2:11:05>> Okay.
2:11:05>> But then I stopped because it was too
2:11:07many stones inside,
2:11:09>> you know, and in the ground,
2:11:11>> right? But I mean, no, don't that that
2:11:14whole yard is almost concrete from the
2:11:16driveway to the sidewalks to the back.
2:11:18Um,
2:11:19>> you got to understand now and you got to
2:11:21be truthful.
2:11:23>> Trying to dispose of someone who's
2:11:25deceased because of the smell is not a
2:11:27problem. But you dug a 3ft I I dug it
2:11:30up. I can show you a picture of it if
2:11:32you don't believe me.
2:11:32>> I believe you.
2:11:33>> Okay. 3T by 3T by 1 ft deep and you
2:11:36lined it with a tarp.
2:11:37>> Yeah, because of rain. I didn't want
2:11:40this the dirt get wet. That's what I
2:11:42wanted.
2:11:43>> Okay. You know, but like I said, I
2:11:46didn't know how
2:11:48far I should dig to make a more length
2:11:50of a driveway. I just didn't know how.
2:11:52>> Well, we found six or eight bags of
2:11:55concrete,
2:11:56>> right?
2:11:57>> Are you sure you weren't going to get
2:11:58Debbie in there?
2:11:59>> I'm positive. I swear.
2:12:01>> Okay.
2:12:02>> When did you dig that hole?
2:12:04>> I dig I started digging it when she
2:12:06realized I was digging it and I was
2:12:08telling her that we shouldn't make it,
2:12:09you know, cuz I'm tired of the stones.
2:12:11I'm tired of, you know, pulling the
2:12:13weeds and stuff like that. That's what I
2:12:16told her. I said, "I think it would be a
2:12:17good idea." And she said, "Okay."
2:12:19>> Now, her who you talking about her?
2:12:20>> Debbie. Debbie. Not Okay. I didn't Your
2:12:22neighbors
2:12:23>> No. Okay.
2:12:24>> My neighbor's nosy.
2:12:26>> Yes. You're right about that.
2:12:27>> Now, the walker that I showed you the
2:12:29photo,
2:12:29>> one was mine and one was hers.
2:12:31>> So, she did walk with a walker. Is that
2:12:33what the ramp was there for? I got to
2:12:34say.
2:12:34>> Well, she never used it. I used it.
2:12:36>> You used it more because of your knee.
2:12:38>> Mhm.
2:12:38>> Okay.
2:12:40All right.
2:12:41>> Did you have that ramp put there?
2:12:42>> Yeah.
2:12:43>> Okay.
2:12:43>> Yeah. Cuz she wanted the ramp there.
2:12:45>> She wanted the ramp there, but she
2:12:46didn't use it,
2:12:47>> right? She was afraid. She was afraid of
2:12:49everything.
2:12:50>> Okay.
2:12:50>> She was afraid how to step down because
2:12:52she may hurt her back or twist the wrong
2:12:54way.
2:12:55>> And if I didn't help her, she'd get mad.
2:13:00>> So, you took her to doctor's
2:13:01appointments.
2:13:02>> Okay. How about dentist appointments?
2:13:04>> She never went to a dentist.
2:13:06>> Never went to dentist. She hated
2:13:07dentists. She was afraid of them cuz
2:13:10every time they nook the chair, she gets
2:13:12scared.
2:13:14That's what she get. She's very
2:13:15paranoid.
2:13:18>> Um,
2:13:21from the from the time you left October
2:13:231st to today, how often would you say
2:13:26you think about Demi?
2:13:27>> All the time. All the time. It's not a
2:13:31day go by that I didn't think about her.
2:13:34And you were
2:13:35>> very sorry that I did what I did.
2:13:39>> If I could change it, I would. Honestly,
2:13:42>> honest.
2:13:43>> Honestly, I rather have her alive.
2:13:47David,
2:13:48>> even with all the the burdens,
2:13:49>> even with all the stuff that she gave
2:13:51me.
2:13:53I'm sorry.
2:13:55I don't mean to cry.
2:13:56>> It's okay. It's a human emotion.
2:14:00>> Not to my mom. She told us we could
2:14:03never cry.
2:14:05>> How come?
2:14:06>> I don't know. Just we couldn't.
2:14:10>> It wasn't ladylike.
2:14:17>> Can we um can we go over your family
2:14:19tree now? Truthfully.
2:14:21>> Truthfully.
2:14:21>> Okay. You have
2:14:24>> I have a brother and two brother. Well,
2:14:27one brother and other sister.
2:14:29>> You have one brother and one sister. And
2:14:31that would be Bobby.
2:14:34>> Older or younger than you?
2:14:35>> Older.
2:14:35>> Do you know the date of birth?
2:14:37>> Uh, September the 6th, 1946.
2:14:40>> Okay. You think he lives in Maryland?
2:14:42>> Yeah.
2:14:43>> And you have a sister?
2:14:44>> Yeah. Joanne.
2:14:45>> Joanne Deler.
2:14:47>> Burton.
2:14:48>> Burton. Sorry.
2:14:50>> Don't me. I don't like her husband.
2:14:52>> Oh, okay. She older or younger?
2:14:55>> She's one year old younger than me.
2:14:58>> Her date of birth? Uh, July 10th, 195.
2:15:03I was born in 52.2.
2:15:05>> Where do you think she lives?
2:15:06>> I think Seattle. You're not going to
2:15:08contact them, are you?
2:15:09>> No, I just need to for the family tree.
2:15:11This This is between you and me,
2:15:13Detective Manning. Um,
2:15:16>> I don't want them to know.
2:15:17>> I don't understand. I mean, it's public
2:15:19record, but we don't call them up and
2:15:20say, "Okay."
2:15:22>> Okay.
2:15:23Nobody's going to report Debbie missing
2:15:26>> because nobody knows Debbie.
2:15:28>> Bobby and Julian.
2:15:29>> Oh yeah, them two. But we had a quarrel
2:15:32ever since Johnny left the money to
2:15:34Debbie.
2:15:35>> John left the money to Debbie
2:15:37>> because he was the baby. And he figured
2:15:39that if he left it to her, she could
2:15:42help take care of mom. But the only
2:15:44thing is that he died a week before my
2:15:48mother and then my mother died a week
2:15:50after. So it was like,
2:15:52>> wow. Very bad.
2:15:53>> Yeah, very bad.
2:15:55>> She didn't take it. I mean, she didn't
2:15:57cry. She didn't do anything. I did the
2:15:59worst.
2:16:00>> Well, you have the biggest heart. What
2:16:03What I've been told by other witnesses
2:16:04is that Debbie never went anywhere
2:16:06without you.
2:16:07>> Right.
2:16:07>> Is that true?
2:16:08>> True. That is true.
2:16:10>> Did she not go? And I'm Please, I'm not
2:16:12picking on her. I'm asking.
2:16:14>> I know.
2:16:14>> Is it because of her mental
2:16:17I say retardation, but I don't know a
2:16:19better word for it. Yeah, that's the
2:16:21only word you can use.
2:16:22>> Okay. Is it because she was mentally
2:16:23[ __ ] or this paranoia or was the
2:16:25paranoia a product of
2:16:28>> it was all in one all wrapped into one?
2:16:31Everything.
2:16:32>> Okay. So, she would not go anywhere.
2:16:33>> Right.
2:16:34>> Okay. Now, you can understand when you
2:16:36told Linda Wear that you sent your
2:16:38sister out to California.
2:16:39>> Yeah.
2:16:40>> She said that didn't make any sense.
2:16:41>> Right.
2:16:42>> And like I said, everyone everyone
2:16:45speaks highly of you.
2:16:47>> I'm surprised. Well, I'm not. And that's
2:16:50from the time that we sat in here.
2:16:51>> Have you done anything? Have you
2:16:52portrayed yourself differently in front
2:16:54of other people, though?
2:16:55>> Okay. So, why wouldn't they think very
2:16:57highly of
2:16:57>> I don't know. Um, I do.
2:17:02>> All right. Um, Barbara, what I'd like to
2:17:04do right now, if you don't mind, I'd
2:17:06like to swab your mouth with a Q-tip.
2:17:08And I'm going to I'm going to tell you
2:17:09why.
2:17:10>> I know why.
2:17:11>> Why?
2:17:12>> To make sure it was me who shot her.
2:17:14>> No. No. You've already told us that.
2:17:16um here the condition that she's found
2:17:19in. Now, we can at least give her a
2:17:21burial, whatever, you know, an
2:17:22appropriate burial, which every person
2:17:23deserves, especially if you're
2:17:24Christian.
2:17:25>> Um I've identified her from an X-ray.
2:17:30>> Okay. This way, I can swab your mouth
2:17:33and I can use her DNA and match you two
2:17:35to show that you were sisters. That's
2:17:36what I'm asking.
2:17:37>> Okay. But the only thing is she's my
2:17:41halfsister.
2:17:42>> That's okay.
2:17:43>> That's okay. You shared a mother or a
2:17:46father?
2:17:46>> Well, my mother played around my father.
2:17:50>> Okay.
2:17:50>> And the other guy said that he would pay
2:17:53for everything, but he didn't. So, she
2:17:57stayed with my dad. My mom did. And my
2:18:00dad approved of it.
2:18:01>> You lost me there. I'm sorry. You see,
2:18:03when when my mother was working at
2:18:05People's Drugstore years ago in
2:18:07Maryland,
2:18:09um when my dad was alive, she she you
2:18:12know had an affair with her manager and
2:18:16she told my dad that she was pregnant
2:18:18and he knew he couldn't give her any
2:18:21children because he by then he was
2:18:23thorough because he was a full-blown
2:18:25diabetic, you know, and uh he said it
2:18:29was fine.
2:18:30>> Okay. So, you're saying that your mom
2:18:32are the same?
2:18:33>> Yeah.
2:18:34>> I mean, can you see the resemblance?
2:18:36>> Yeah.
2:18:36>> Okay. I mean, it's huge. I did not think
2:18:38that you guys had different fathers.
2:18:40>> Oh, really?
2:18:41>> Yeah. I would not have guessed.
2:18:42>> I'm a be positive.
2:18:44>> Okay. Oh, she's a
2:18:45>> I don't know what she is.
2:18:46>> Okay.
2:18:47>> She would not even go for blood. She
2:18:49wouldn't. She was afraid of everything.
2:18:51>> Wow.
2:18:52>> Every little thing.
2:18:54>> How long? And And I And I'm not calling
2:18:56you a liar, but you know how we sat here
2:18:57and you you said, "Well, I left Florida
2:18:58in 01." And that probably was because of
2:19:00this trying to avoid this. But how long
2:19:03do you think you I mean you were her
2:19:04primary caregiver as far back as 1993
2:19:09when I read this report from the Metife
2:19:10man,
2:19:11>> right?
2:19:11>> Um so 93 you were taking care of your
2:19:14mom and your sister,
2:19:16>> right?
2:19:16>> So that's 10 and two is uh 12. So that's
2:19:1912 years. How much more do you think? I
2:19:22mean did you just care for her your
2:19:24whole life?
2:19:24>> Yeah.
2:19:26Yeah. cuz nobody else wanted it to.
2:19:29>> I understand.
2:19:31>> I guess I did.
2:19:33>> Well,
2:19:33>> did you want me to take my teeth out?
2:19:35>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's what
2:19:37we're going to do.
2:19:37>> Very painless.
2:19:38>> Yeah. This is one of the few things
2:19:39they've invented that doesn't hurt.
2:19:42>> Um,
2:19:44all we're going to do is I'm just going
2:19:45to have you open your mouth and I'm
2:19:46going to I'll just press against your
2:19:48inside of your gum right here. It ain't
2:19:50hurt. Don't hurt nothing. Takes all
2:19:51attention.
2:19:52>> Just pinch too hard.
2:19:53>> I'm not going to pinch at all. It's a
2:19:54Q-tip.
2:19:55>> It's going to be the pressure. just kind
2:19:56of like brushing your um the
2:19:58>> I use that
2:20:02>> even though I drink something.
2:20:04>> No, this is nothing to do with drinking
2:20:05nothing. Look, totally painless. Do you
2:20:07see? Okay. Totally sterile. All right.
2:20:09Just open your mouth.
2:20:12>> You should charge us for this.
2:20:15>> Um it actually broke. Yeah, that's okay.
2:20:18>> Just stick it right in there for me.
2:20:20Sorry about that.
2:20:21>> First time.
2:20:22>> Very quy. I got a good mouth.
2:20:25>> There you go. If he was pushing too
2:20:26hard,
2:20:29>> like he explained that's just for the
2:20:31DNA. Okay. So, get your skin cells. I
2:20:33It's on medical stuff. I don't know. But
2:20:35that's what they can do. You probably
2:20:36seen on TV. I know.
2:20:37>> Yeah.
2:20:38>> Detective.
2:20:39>> Yeah.
2:20:41>> Is that it?
2:20:42>> Is that totally the drinks?
2:20:45>> Th dry your mouth a little bit.
2:20:47>> So, what's going to happen to me?
2:20:49>> Well, am I going to jail?
2:20:52Yeah.
2:20:54>> Well, not a distinct possibility. Um, I
2:20:57mean, this is serious.
2:20:59>> No, serious,
2:21:00>> but I can tell you that from what we've
2:21:02learned here that, like you said, this
2:21:04wasn't planned,
2:21:05>> right?
2:21:06>> Uh, this was a fit of anger.
2:21:09>> Um,
2:21:11it also tells us you're sorry.
2:21:15>> Very, very sorry.
2:21:18And if you had it to do over,
2:21:20>> I would never done it.
2:21:22>> Never.
2:21:23>> All the things that you told us. So,
2:21:27obviously, you're going to have to
2:21:28answer to this in Penel County.
2:21:30>> That means I got to go back.
2:21:31>> Well, that's what I want to talk to you
2:21:32about. I need to go make some phone
2:21:35calls. It's going to take me a few
2:21:36minutes.
2:21:36>> Okay.
2:21:37>> Would you be willing to come back
2:21:39voluntarily to Penel County, Florida?
2:21:41>> I have no choice.
2:21:42>> Hold on. Well, I tell you, you don't
2:21:44have no choice. Um, otherwise, you have
2:21:47to be extradited.
2:21:48>> Oh, I don't want that.
2:21:49>> Well, that you're willing to come back
2:21:51with us voluntarily. Okay.
2:21:53>> That means I'll go to jail there,
2:21:55>> right? But we'll we'll be together.
2:21:57>> Okay.
2:21:57>> You will?
2:21:58>> Yeah.
2:21:58>> Say so for a little while. Pretty funny.
2:22:02>> I didn't know you're home with that one.
2:22:05>> But otherwise, it's you're going to go
2:22:07here and they're going to bring you back
2:22:09from here.
2:22:10>> I don't want to do it that way. I'd
2:22:12rather do it voluntarily.
2:22:13>> Okay. Well, here's what I do. I got make
2:22:14some phone calls and then see what they
2:22:16tell us. As long as I know that you will
2:22:19sign a waiver that you can come back
2:22:20freely and voluntarily, um, we can
2:22:22probably I'm not promising. This is on
2:22:24tape, but probably we can ride back
2:22:26together.
2:22:27>> Okay.
2:22:28>> Today, tomorrow, today? Well, probably
2:22:31today.
2:22:31>> We'll make arrangements.
2:22:32>> Let me just call and see what's
2:22:33available
2:22:34>> because I'm not going anywhere. I swear.
2:22:36>> Okay. So, just give me a few minutes.
2:22:38Okay. Do you want another soda or
2:22:39anything?
2:22:40>> No, I'll be fine.
2:22:40>> Okay.
2:22:42Okay, I'm going to shut the tape off.
2:22:44>> I was kind of ask my mind just going.
2:22:47Okay. Um, you mentioned reference to the
2:22:50comforter or the blanket over her head.
2:22:52Okay. And then you made the comment that
2:22:54when he asked why that would go there
2:22:56and you said, "Well, because
2:22:57>> she would wouldn't hear the noise."
2:23:00>> Okay. He wouldn't hear the noise from
2:23:01what?
2:23:01>> Gurgling.
2:23:02>> The gurgling. Okay. So, was it when you
2:23:05shot her? Was the blanket on her when
2:23:07you shot her? Okay. So, when did you put
2:23:09the blanket? when I heard her start
2:23:11gurgling.
2:23:11>> You heard her start gurgling and then
2:23:12you put
2:23:13>> Yeah. So I wouldn't hear her. I didn't
2:23:15want her to suffer.
2:23:16>> Okay. You didn't want her to suffer,
2:23:18>> right?
2:23:18>> So you What would the blanket do to keep
2:23:20her from suffering?
2:23:21>> She wouldn't be able to breathe.
2:23:22>> She wouldn't be able So like suffocate.
2:23:24Okay. And was that before the shot or
2:23:27after the shot?
2:23:28>> After.
2:23:29>> After the shot. Okay. Um
2:23:33as as you know, I've been around guns
2:23:35because it's it's my job. Okay. And a
2:23:38shot of a gun is not soft. You can
2:23:40really hear it.
2:23:41>> But nobody heard it outside.
2:23:43>> How do you know that?
2:23:44>> Because I checked.
2:23:45>> How did you check?
2:23:46>> I went outside and see if you know just
2:23:48Mosely out there to see if anybody heard
2:23:50anything.
2:23:51>> Okay.
2:23:52>> Nobody did.
2:23:53>> What time do you think this was?
2:23:54>> It was early morning.
2:23:55>> Like
2:23:57>> 4 or 5.
2:23:58>> 4 or 5 in the morning.
2:24:00>> Okay. Then what time did you go to work
2:24:01that day then?
2:24:02>> Oh, I didn't work that day.
2:24:04>> That day? You're off that day?
2:24:05>> Yeah. Okay.
2:24:06>> That was the day we were supposed to go
2:24:08to Elvis Presley in um impersonator.
2:24:11>> Oh, okay. Where was that at?
2:24:13>> Uh somewhere in St. Pet I don't know
2:24:15where.
2:24:15>> Okay. Did you have tickets or is that
2:24:16something you just go to?
2:24:17>> Tickets.
2:24:17>> Tickets. Okay.
2:24:18>> Yeah. But it's just that she couldn't
2:24:20climb the steps and stuff like that. She
2:24:23didn't like the seating arrangements and
2:24:25stuff.
2:24:26>> Now, how'd she know all that? Like
2:24:27>> cuz we went to check it.
2:24:28>> Oh, you went to the place
2:24:29>> get the tickets and she went to see how
2:24:31far she'd be.
2:24:32>> Where's that? Is that
2:24:33>> it was like a a It's almost like a
2:24:36school or a church or something like
2:24:37that.
2:24:38>> Okay.
2:24:38>> But I don't know what kind of thing.
2:24:39>> It wasn't Was it like the Ruth? Not um
2:24:43>> No. No. Nothing like that. Okay.
2:24:45>> Nothing.
2:24:46>> Just like somebody was just coming to
2:24:47Okay.
2:24:49>> Okay.
2:24:49>> Yeah.
2:24:49>> So, was that part of the argument too
2:24:51then that night?
2:24:52>> Yeah, that that too.
2:24:54>> It was everything.
2:24:55>> You name it.
2:24:57>> It all built up.
2:24:58>> Yeah. It just kept building building. I
2:25:00just
2:25:01>> tried to tell her I wanted to leave. So,
2:25:04you know, as friends,
2:25:07>> but
2:25:07>> she said she didn't know what to do or
2:25:09anything.
2:25:11You know,
2:25:13I was hoping she would outlive me, but I
2:25:16never thought this would go this far.
2:25:19>> I never planned anything like this.
2:25:21>> It just happened.
2:25:23>> Did you have to clean up anything around
2:25:26the bed or I mean like on the wall on
2:25:28the carpet? Was there blood or?
2:25:30>> It was on the bed.
2:25:31>> It was on the bed, but nothing off the
2:25:32bed. How about on you?
2:25:35>> You didn't get anything on you?
2:25:36>> No. As far as I know, I didn't.
2:25:40>> And when you got done with the gun, you
2:25:42you What? What did you do with the gun?
2:25:43>> I just put it back right into the
2:25:44dresser.
2:25:45>> Right in the dresser
2:25:46>> after I emptied it. I only shot one.
2:25:49>> Oh, you emptied it?
2:25:50>> Yeah, I emptied it. Put it into the
2:25:52shell case.
2:25:53>> Oh, did you have like a
2:25:55>> little case?
2:25:55>> Little case. Okay.
2:25:56>> With bullets.
2:25:57>> With bullets. Okay. So, when you How did
2:26:00you unload the gun?
2:26:02>> Open the barrier and just open it and
2:26:05all the bullets came out.
2:26:07>> Okay. So, it's like a like a cylinder
2:26:09like a round thing that goes around.
2:26:10Okay. Okay. So, you see um Did you have
2:26:13to load the gun before this happened?
2:26:15>> I had it loaded.
2:26:16>> You kept it loaded in the house.
2:26:18>> Okay. Yeah.
2:26:19>> Did you have any type of lock on it or
2:26:21anything like that?
2:26:21>> It had a security lock.
2:26:22>> A secure lock. What type of lock did you
2:26:24have on? It was like a a a snap that you
2:26:27just push it and it stays locked.
2:26:29>> Okay. The gun or the gun itself. So it's
2:26:31like on a trigger like a trigger guard
2:26:33type of thing.
2:26:34>> Okay.
2:26:37>> What pawn shop do you think you bought
2:26:38this at?
2:26:39>> I know it's on Central.
2:26:41>> Central Avenue in St. Pete.
2:26:43>> Yeah.
2:26:44>> But I don't know what street.
2:26:46>> Did you buy it under your name and
2:26:48>> my name and everything? I had thumb
2:26:50print done. How long ago do you think
2:26:53that was? Oh, years about I'd say the
2:26:56second year we lived there.
2:26:57>> Okay. Okay.
2:26:59>> I would say because you know there was
2:27:01so many robberies go Shirley kept saying
2:27:03her house was getting robbed.
2:27:05>> Okay.
2:27:05>> And everything else. So I decided to go
2:27:08ahead and buy the gun.
2:27:09>> Okay.
2:27:09>> And then we would joke about the gun,
2:27:11you know, cuz she she knows about the BB
2:27:14gun, you know. She wasn't afraid of
2:27:16that.
2:27:17>> Who? Debbie wasn't afraid of BB gun.
2:27:18Okay.
2:27:19>> Yeah.
2:27:20>> Okay.
2:27:21>> So that was it. Okay.
2:27:23Okay.
2:27:26>> And do you think the gun was left in the
2:27:29in the dresser?
2:27:30>> Oh, yeah,
2:27:30>> it was. Okay.
2:27:31>> Yeah, I made sure.
2:27:32>> Okay. And then what made you decide to
2:27:36leave then? Just
2:27:37>> just left because I know that the house
2:27:40was u bankrupt. You know, what do you
2:27:43call it?
2:27:44>> Oh, um
2:27:45>> foreclosed. Yeah.
2:27:46>> So, you knew that was that happened? How
2:27:48did you find that out? from the judge
2:27:51because it was uh because we weren't
2:27:53paying on the rent because it was so
2:27:54much.
2:27:55>> Okay.
2:27:55>> And all that and I kept telling her we
2:27:57should never got
2:27:59>> Okay.
2:28:00>> That's what I kept telling her. I told
2:28:01her we could just probably back out or
2:28:04just sell it. She said no.
2:28:06>> Why didn't she want to sell it?
2:28:07>> Cuz she loved it.
2:28:08>> She loved it.
2:28:09>> Okay. When they started to foreclose on
2:28:12it, was Debbie still alive?
2:28:15>> Yeah, she was.
2:28:15>> She Okay. So she So you knew and she
2:28:18kind of knew that you were losing a
2:28:19house,
2:28:19>> right?
2:28:20>> Okay.
2:28:20>> Yeah, she knew.
2:28:21>> Cuz she went with me to face the judge.
2:28:24>> Okay.
2:28:25>> She was with me.
2:28:25>> Oh, she went in. Okay.
2:28:26>> Mhm. And that was in Tampa.
2:28:28>> That was Okay. And what came out of that
2:28:30then?
2:28:31>> It's just that as long as I kept paying
2:28:33to the judge. Okay.
2:28:34>> Over in Orlando.
2:28:36>> And then it would have been fine and
2:28:38then that way they would get bits and
2:28:40pieces but plus also pay the rent on
2:28:43time.
2:28:44>> Okay. That was the only thing.
2:28:46>> When do you think you started falling
2:28:47behind then? Or when did you stop paying
2:28:49for it?
2:28:50>> About a month.
2:28:51>> Okay.
2:28:51>> And then it started falling back behind
2:28:53because all because she kept ordering
2:28:55stuff, you know, she wanted more things
2:28:57and more things by mail.
2:28:59>> Oh, she's ordering things through the
2:29:00mail.
2:29:01>> Plus, she wanted to uh join fan clubs
2:29:04and stuff like that.
2:29:06>> Okay.
2:29:06>> She was a big general hospital fan club.
2:29:08>> General Hospital. Okay.
2:29:10>> Yeah.
2:29:11>> You took her out to California to see
2:29:13it?
2:29:13>> Yeah. How long ago was that?
2:29:16>> I would say
2:29:18going on near the third year we went.
2:29:21Okay.
2:29:21>> We went out there together.
2:29:23>> Third year. Okay. And were you living at
2:29:24the trailer at that time? Yeah. Okay.
2:29:26So, you were living in the trailer when
2:29:27you went out there. How about when you
2:29:28went to Australia? Were you at the
2:29:29trailer too? Did you have any other big
2:29:31trips while you were living at the Those
2:29:33are big ones?
2:29:34>> Yeah.
2:29:34>> So, you went out to the Was that the
2:29:37sole reason going out to
2:29:39>> Yeah. She she um the reason why she
2:29:44wanted to go to Australia is because of
2:29:46the guy who plays on General Hospital,
2:29:48Engel Roacher.
2:29:50>> Okay.
2:29:50>> He's Australian.
2:29:52>> Oh.
2:29:52>> And she had the hots for him.
2:29:54>> She was going to get married at one time
2:29:56to this guy. He's uh I think uh Mexican
2:30:01or something like that.
2:30:02>> Okay.
2:30:03>> She bought the wedding dress and the
2:30:04veil that you saw, okay, in the picture.
2:30:07>> Okay. and uh that she was going to marry
2:30:11him, but he backed out.
2:30:12>> Did you Did you ever meet him?
2:30:14>> Oh, yeah.
2:30:14>> Okay. I mean,
2:30:15>> they dated.
2:30:16>> They dated. Okay.
2:30:16>> Yeah. He lived in Miami,
2:30:19>> Florida.
2:30:20>> Okay. How did they get together? But
2:30:22>> I would drive her down there.
2:30:23>> You drove her to clear to Miami.
2:30:26>> What was he like?
2:30:28>> Short. And okay, I guess she was
2:30:31demanding on him, too.
2:30:32>> Is that what happened?
2:30:33>> Mhm. I think that's why he said no. How
2:30:36long were they dating?
2:30:38>> I say about a month.
2:30:39>> Okay. Do you remember his last name?
2:30:42>> No.
2:30:42>> Okay.
2:30:43>> No, I don't.
2:30:44>> Okay.
2:30:44>> I don't even remember his first.
2:30:46>> Now, how long ago was that then?
2:30:48>> It was about
2:30:51I say prior going on our second year.
2:30:55>> Oh, no. That was way before we even got
2:30:57the inheritance.
2:30:58>> Okay.
2:30:59>> Cuz we lived in the Gilla.
2:31:00>> Oh, that back then. Okay. That was wild
2:31:02though. That's
2:31:02>> right.
2:31:04>> In the the trove there's like um
2:31:06Christmas cards and envelopes made out
2:31:08to Debbie from people kind of through
2:31:10all over the country. They friends or
2:31:12>> internet
2:31:13>> internet people that she's got to know.
2:31:15Okay. Did she keep up with a lot of
2:31:16people on the internet?
2:31:17>> Yeah.
2:31:18>> More than me.
2:31:19>> Would was like emailing or would she go
2:31:21in the chat rooms or
2:31:22>> she go chat rooms?
2:31:22>> Okay. What would she talk about?
2:31:24>> I don't know.
2:31:25>> Okay.
2:31:26>> It was none of my business.
2:31:27>> Okay. I mean were they chat rooms like
2:31:29for Star Wars stuff or self? I read
2:31:31everything. Okay.
2:31:32>> Okay.
2:31:33>> Yeah.
2:31:34>> Okay.
2:31:37>> Okay. Burma, is there anything that we
2:31:39didn't ask you that you think we need to
2:31:40know or just something that you want to
2:31:42tell us that that we didn't give you
2:31:44afford you the opportunity to talk
2:31:46about?
2:31:47>> Yes.
2:31:47>> Because we've done a lot of talking and
2:31:49a lot of times when we get down people
2:31:50are like, "Well, I want to ask, you
2:31:52know, I wish I would have told him that.
2:31:53I wish I would have asked this or
2:31:54something like that."
2:31:55>> I can't think of anything.
2:31:56>> Can't think of anything.
2:31:57>> Okay. Was he getting you another drink?
2:31:58Does he say? Okay. Do you want
2:32:00>> No.
2:32:01>> A drink. Okay. Fine.
2:32:02>> How about something to eat? Like a candy
2:32:03bar? I don't know what they have here.
2:32:05Chips. Just something to
2:32:06>> hold you over. Okay.
2:32:08>> I got I got pies and Danish in the car.
2:32:13>> Okay. Okay. Well, I'm going to go ahead
2:32:15and shut the tape off. I'm going to step
2:32:16out of the room for a minute. Okay. I'll
2:32:17be
2:32:18>> Let's see. Um same day. The time is now
2:32:21um about 10:40. And this concludes um
2:32:23the tape. Thank you.
2:32:25>> How about the bathroom? want to run to
2:32:27the bathroom again or
2:32:28>> Okay, that sounds like a good
2:32:29>> If you want or you can wait, I come back
2:32:30a couple minutes and then if you don't
2:32:32want me to go right now or
2:32:33>> Okay, I'll wait.
2:32:33>> Okay, I'm gonna leave this open to give
2:32:35you some air. Little hot in there. I
2:32:37think. Okay.
2:32:55He's almost done. He's on the phone like
2:32:57he said he was going to do. He's going
2:32:58to give you do a call. As you know, we
2:33:00have bosses, so we have to talk go
2:33:03through them and be
2:33:04>> flying or driving. Um,
2:33:08good question.
2:33:09>> Because if we are, I have to because
2:33:12this knee is gonna go off when I go
2:33:14through that.
2:33:14>> Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.
2:33:15Okay. You're giving us a hands up on
2:33:16that. Yeah, we'll take care of all that.
2:33:18Yeah, I would
2:33:19>> He's not going to handcuff me, is he?
2:33:21>> Um, I hope not.
2:33:22>> Well, you until he comes back in, I'm
2:33:25not going to talk because I don't know
2:33:26what what he has plans right now. Like
2:33:28you said, flying, driving, or um maybe
2:33:31coming back later to get you. I don't
2:33:33know. So, we'll just have to see what
2:33:34what he finds out. It's um out of our
2:33:37hands. It something that um
2:33:39>> they say
2:33:40>> they say and then of course who he's
2:33:42talking to. They have to talk to
2:33:44somebody else.
2:33:45>> There's not going to be no media or
2:33:47anything. That's it.
2:33:48>> We don't we don't do anything with the
2:33:51media. We don't call them. We don't, you
2:33:53know.
2:33:53>> Oh, okay.
2:33:54>> So, we don't
2:33:55>> we prefer not to do the media. Okay.
2:33:58like like you said when it comes back to
2:33:59your your public record and stuff like
2:34:01that. I mean people have knowledge when
2:34:02you're booked into jail and things like
2:34:04that.
2:34:04>> I've never been to jail.
2:34:06>> Never been I I believe that.
2:34:09>> Never never got a traffic ticket.
2:34:12>> I've always been cut.
2:34:15>> I even do the speed limit.
2:34:18>> Not like him, huh?
2:34:20>> Yeah. What on my left foot?
2:34:21>> That's
2:34:23he likes to go.
2:34:24>> Yeah. But it's hard when Yeah. Yeah,
2:34:26we've only been up here for not even a
2:34:28day, so we're not familiar with this
2:34:30area.
2:34:31>> It didn't take long to find me, did it?
2:34:33>> Um, we had a lot prior to coming up
2:34:35here.
2:34:37>> So, yeah, cuz we have to we have to we
2:34:39have to make a I want to say a good
2:34:41case, a solid case. Okay. We never want
2:34:43to accuse somebody,
2:34:46you know, of doing something that they
2:34:47didn't do. So, we want to make sure over
2:34:49>> What if I actually didn't do it? Would
2:34:51you believe me? Um, it would have been
2:34:55difficult because of all the the stuff
2:34:57we have. But I But if you're saying if
2:35:00you wouldn't have done it and all the
2:35:01evidence that showed it to you, you're a
2:35:03very believable person. Yes. But it's
2:35:05because that
2:35:07>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I said that's
2:35:08why we got this.
2:35:10>> That's why we're looking at
2:35:13>> We're doing good.
2:35:21I shut off again.
2:35:23>> Put her back on.
2:35:27>> And you use both sides.
2:35:29>> Sorry about that.
2:35:30>> I also have a heart murmur.
2:35:32>> You have a heart murmur?
2:35:33>> Yeah.
2:35:35>> Yeah. Sometime it races
2:35:37>> like having a heart attack but not
2:35:40>> you don't feel like that right now, do
2:35:41you? No.
2:35:43>> No, not right now. Not only when I get
2:35:45excited that does happen. Okay.
2:35:50>> So, you were at the end of this one
2:35:51anyway, right?
2:35:53>> Were we? I mean, I shut off really close
2:35:55to it.
2:35:56>> Oh, that's the other one.
2:35:58>> No one.
2:35:59>> Okay.
2:36:00>> I'm sorry. Okay.
2:36:05>> Okay. Where we're at, um, I called to my
2:36:11boss and to the state attorney's office
2:36:12and we're finding out about the
2:36:14procedure for you to wave extradition.
2:36:17Okay. Um, what we want to do is we want
2:36:19to go over the story one more time.
2:36:21>> Okay.
2:36:22>> I know it's it's a pain. Um, we're just
2:36:25going to go from the beginning to the
2:36:26end so that we clear up all the details
2:36:28that were
2:36:30>> misleading.
2:36:31>> Misleading. That's a good term. So, let
2:36:33me note.
2:36:34>> I'm sorry for anything like that.
2:36:35>> No, that's okay. Um, but the this is
2:36:38your opportunity to
2:36:41come clean. Okay.
2:36:43>> Yeah. Um,
2:36:45>> but I was truly born in Washington DC.
2:36:49>> You started there. Good. Okay.
2:36:50>> I'm gonna tell you one more thing.
2:36:51Barbara,
2:36:52>> you um
2:36:55you didn't lie. You just said I don't
2:36:58recall. I don't remember. Okay. So, I
2:37:00completely understand that.
2:37:02>> I was scared.
2:37:03>> I I understand that you're scared. Okay.
2:37:05Um, so that's what we're going to do.
2:37:08>> All right. All right. So,
2:37:10>> starting over. We're gonna start right
2:37:11over and go from the beginning to the
2:37:13end. All right.
2:37:15Okay. This is Detective Judy with the
2:37:17Penel County Sheriff's Office. It is May
2:37:20the 9th, 2005 at 10:47
2:37:23hours.
2:37:26Uh this is reference to case number
2:37:2805104141.
2:37:30Present during the interview with
2:37:32Detective Manning as well as Barbara
2:37:33Burns. Miss Burns, you just say your
2:37:35name.
2:37:35>> Barbara Burns. Okay, Miss Burns, we've
2:37:37been here for several hours um speaking
2:37:40with you on tape. Correct.
2:37:42>> Correct.
2:37:42>> Okay. And we're just going to do what we
2:37:44did from the beginning to the end.
2:37:46>> Okay.
2:37:46>> Okay. Before we do, uh I'm going to tell
2:37:48you your Miranda warning. Probably seen
2:37:50this on television.
2:37:52>> Okay. You have the right to remain
2:37:53silent. Anything you say can and will be
2:37:55used against you in a court of law. You
2:37:57have the right to talk to a lawyer and
2:37:58have him or her present with you while
2:38:00you're being questioned. If you cannot
2:38:02afford to hire a lawyer, one will be
2:38:03appointed to represent you for any
2:38:05question if you wish. free of charge and
2:38:06you can decide at any time to exercise
2:38:08these rights and not answer any
2:38:09questions or make any statements.
2:38:11>> I understand.
2:38:12>> Okay. What we'd like to do is just go
2:38:14over from the beginning to the end. Um
2:38:16because in our original tapes, we have a
2:38:19few facts that weren't factual,
2:38:21>> right?
2:38:22>> Okay.
2:38:23Let's go ahead and start with the state
2:38:25you were born in.
2:38:26>> Washington DC.
2:38:27>> And your parents' name?
2:38:29>> Margaret L. Burns and Robert EMTT Burns.
2:38:32Okay. My dad.
2:38:33>> That was your dad. And they're both
2:38:34deceased,
2:38:35>> right?
2:38:36>> Okay. And you have siblings?
2:38:37>> Yeah. I got a brother, John, Bobby, and
2:38:40a sister, Joanne.
2:38:42>> And
2:38:43Johnny was He's dead now, too.
2:38:45>> But a brother.
2:38:46>> But a brother.
2:38:47>> And a sister.
2:38:48>> Debbie.
2:38:48>> Okay. Debbie Burns.
2:38:50>> Debbie.
2:38:50>> Not Deborah.
2:38:51>> Well, she liked to be called Deborah.
2:38:53>> Okay. And that was actually on a birth
2:38:54date, I think, with Deborah.
2:38:56>> Right.
2:38:56>> Okay. And
2:38:59again, we're kind of skipping forward
2:39:00here, but you have provided care to your
2:39:02sister,
2:39:03>> right,
2:39:04>> Debbie or Deborah, uh, for her for the
2:39:08majority of her life,
2:39:09>> right?
2:39:09>> Because why?
2:39:11>> Because she has scoliosis and she's
2:39:13diabetic and she has a mental of of a
2:39:16third a three-year-old.
2:39:17>> Okay. Um, and she that's her whole life.
2:39:20>> All her life.
2:39:21>> And she is a How's she related to you?
2:39:24>> She's my sister.
2:39:25>> Okay. and probably a halfsister.
2:39:28>> Yeah, I have half sister.
2:39:29>> And you shared in common.
2:39:31>> We share everything.
2:39:32>> A m a mother.
2:39:32>> A mother, right? Yeah. Okay.
2:39:34>> I'm just trying to speed it up. I
2:39:35apologize.
2:39:36>> Okay.
2:39:37>> Prior to moving to Virginia Beach, where
2:39:39we are today,
2:39:40>> you resided where?
2:39:42>> Here. Virginia Beach.
2:39:43>> Prior to moving here before?
2:39:46>> St. Pittsburgh, Florida.
2:39:47>> And the address there
2:39:48>> is.
2:39:51>> Okay. And that's a residence that you
2:39:52owned?
2:39:53>> Yes.
2:39:54>> With
2:39:54>> Debbie Burns.
2:39:55>> Okay. And you both purchased it,
2:39:56>> right?
2:39:57>> And like earlier when I told you the
2:39:58title company, Fidelity, right?
2:40:00>> That was the company. Okay.
2:40:02>> Um and you purchased the house. It was a
2:40:03three-bedroom, two bath
2:40:05>> Mhm.
2:40:05>> manufactured home,
2:40:06>> right?
2:40:07>> Okay. Um
2:40:08>> in 1995.
2:40:09>> Built in 1995. That I did not know.
2:40:11Okay. And you resided there. And prior
2:40:15to what we're here for today,
2:40:17>> you and Debbie shared a bedroom,
2:40:18>> right?
2:40:19>> Tell me where the bedroom was when you
2:40:21came in through the house. If you came
2:40:22in through the
2:40:23>> kitchen,
2:40:23>> the kitchen door,
2:40:24>> it would be on the right hand side,
2:40:26that's where it would be. After you walk
2:40:28through the kitchen, it'll be right
2:40:29there on the right.
2:40:30>> Okay. And you're actually with your
2:40:31hand, you're kind of like showing like a
2:40:32button hook, like a
2:40:34>> turn like a turn there.
2:40:35>> Okay. And then the other bedrooms are
2:40:36located on the other end of the house,
2:40:38>> right?
2:40:38>> Traveling through like a living room,
2:40:40>> right?
2:40:40>> Okay.
2:40:41>> In the hall.
2:40:42>> Now, Debbiey's bed was located
2:40:45>> against the wall by the door. As you
2:40:47open it, it'd be right there on the
2:40:48left.
2:40:49>> If you opened it, it was right there on
2:40:50the left. You'd be looking at what part
2:40:51of the bed? The head or the foot?
2:40:53>> It's the foot.
2:40:54>> Okay. And the head would be the opposite
2:40:55way, obviously.
2:40:56>> Right.
2:40:57>> In your bed,
2:40:58>> it's like an L. My head would go up here
2:41:00and my feet be at her face.
2:41:02>> At her face. And I would basically been
2:41:04underneath that window then,
2:41:05>> right? Basically,
2:41:06>> in that bedroom, there was a bathroom,
2:41:08>> right,
2:41:09>> with a jacuzzi tub,
2:41:10>> right?
2:41:10>> Okay. Um, we found uh Well, we'll keep
2:41:14it in order. Okay. At some point in time
2:41:17while living there an argument took
2:41:19place.
2:41:20>> Yeah.
2:41:20>> Do you remember when?
2:41:22>> I don't Well, it was uh it we had
2:41:26several
2:41:26>> I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean
2:41:28siblings have argu but I'm talking about
2:41:30the
2:41:30>> the main one.
2:41:31>> The main the final.
2:41:33>> It was actually on her birthday, August
2:41:35the 14th.
2:41:37>> It was on her birthday.
2:41:38>> We argued.
2:41:40>> Okay. Tell me what the gist of the
2:41:42argument was. It was about money and
2:41:45about her pills and about everything she
2:41:48wanted cuz you know she only gets paid a
2:41:51month once a month and I get paid every
2:41:54two weeks and she thinks that my money
2:41:57is free money you know cuz you know I
2:42:00need things too and uh she didn't like
2:42:03it so we argued about it.
2:42:06>> Okay. When do you think the argument
2:42:07started that day?
2:42:09>> When early in the morning.
2:42:10>> Early in the morning. Did you all
2:42:11celebrate her birthday that day?
2:42:12>> Yeah, we did. I took her out to dinner.
2:42:14>> Where'd you guys go?
2:42:15>> We went to Macaroni and Grill.
2:42:18>> Oh, the one by
2:42:19>> by Tyrone.
2:42:20>> By Tyrone. You guys want to There's two
2:42:21of them and I know.
2:42:22>> Yeah.
2:42:23>> Were you arguing before you went to
2:42:24macaroni and grill?
2:42:25>> After we got back. Well, actually, it
2:42:27would be that evening that we start
2:42:29arguing about everything. It was a good
2:42:32morning. It was a good morning. A good
2:42:34lunch. And when we got back
2:42:36>> was macaroni grill lunch.
2:42:38>> Yeah.
2:42:38>> Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah,
2:42:40>> it was lunch. And then when we got back,
2:42:42that's when the doctor called to let her
2:42:44know that her prescription was ready.
2:42:46>> Well, that have been Dr.
2:42:48>> Dr. Yeah.
2:42:49>> Whit.
2:42:52>> Okay. So, Dr. Wit called said, "And you
2:42:54did not have the money,
2:42:55>> right?" And she got mad. I said, "Well,
2:42:57maybe I'll get paid on the 15th. I was
2:42:59supposed to get paid, but I didn't
2:43:01because I prior because of the fact that
2:43:05you know that I thought it was that week
2:43:07that I got paid on the 15th.
2:43:09>> Oh, you only got paid every two weeks,
2:43:10>> right?
2:43:11>> Well, that have been from Lowe's,
2:43:12>> right?
2:43:13>> Okay.
2:43:15>> So, I didn't So, we started arguing that
2:43:18on the 14th.
2:43:20>> Okay.
2:43:21>> You know, before you know, cuz I called,
2:43:23you know, cuz if you have a direct
2:43:25deposit, you get it on Thursday. So I
2:43:28called and did she come in and that's
2:43:30when she got mad.
2:43:31>> And that's still the 14th.
2:43:32>> Still the 14th.
2:43:33>> Okay. So the argument is it mostly in
2:43:35the house?
2:43:36>> Yeah.
2:43:36>> Like in the bedroom, in the living room?
2:43:38>> Yeah. Everywhere I went, she was
2:43:40arguing.
2:43:41>> I couldn't get Yeah. I couldn't get away
2:43:42from her.
2:43:43>> Okay. And she physically struck me?
2:43:45>> Yeah. She hit me
2:43:46>> with
2:43:46>> Yeah. With her hand or either anything
2:43:48she gives her hand on.
2:43:50>> She throw things at you?
2:43:51>> She did one time. She threw um
2:43:53>> this time.
2:43:54>> Oh, this time?
2:43:55>> Yes.
2:43:55>> No.
2:43:56>> Okay. As far as I can remember, no, she
2:43:58did not.
2:43:59>> Okay.
2:44:01And then continue on. What happened
2:44:03>> then? Uh I told her enough was enough.
2:44:05So I stepped outside cuz I knew she
2:44:07wouldn't come out there. So she just
2:44:10stayed in. I tried to tell her cool
2:44:12down. I'm going to try to cool down. So
2:44:14when I went back in, we started arguing
2:44:15again over and over about the same
2:44:18things, you know, and
2:44:21>> Yeah. And I told her, "Why don't you
2:44:23just go to bed?" and she said, "Well,
2:44:24what about the 15th?" Which we're
2:44:27supposed to go to the eldest invitator
2:44:29on the 15th that night. And I said,
2:44:33"We'll see." You know, that's what I
2:44:35kept telling her. We'll see if you know,
2:44:37it depends on moneywise, which I didn't
2:44:40have any. And she didn't have any. So,
2:44:43we never went
2:44:45and that when I shot her.
2:44:47>> Okay.
2:44:48>> The 15th.
2:44:48>> It would have been the 15th. So the
2:44:50fight, the argument really was a
2:44:52continuation from the day before,
2:44:54>> right?
2:44:55>> Okay. And it's pretty easy to remember
2:44:56because it was her birthday,
2:44:57>> right?
2:44:58>> Okay. So
2:45:01the next day,
2:45:03obviously, she's not shot in that
2:45:05morning. Take me through that.
2:45:06>> She was shot that morning.
2:45:08>> Oh, the 15th.
2:45:09>> On the 15th.
2:45:10>> Okay. So on the 14th, you guys fighting.
2:45:13She finally decides to go to bed,
2:45:15>> right?
2:45:15>> Did you go to bed? I I went to bed for a
2:45:19little bit, but I was so on edge, you
2:45:21know, I was wait, you know, I was afraid
2:45:23she was going to wake up. Started
2:45:24yelling again. So, I decided to just go
2:45:27stay in the living room for a little
2:45:28bit. And then I decided to go to bed.
2:45:31>> Okay. And you moved your because at one
2:45:33point in time you lived together,
2:45:34>> right?
2:45:34>> You had moved your bed
2:45:36>> right after I shot her.
2:45:37>> Oh, after.
2:45:38>> Okay. So, you were in the same bedroom,
2:45:39right?
2:45:40>> See, that's something we needed to clear
2:45:41up, too.
2:45:41>> Yeah.
2:45:42>> Okay. So, that night, did you sleep in
2:45:44your bed in her room? bed. Yeah. In our
2:45:47bedroom. Yes.
2:45:48>> Okay. And she's still alive.
2:45:50>> Yeah. She was still alive.
2:45:51>> Okay. And but then what happened?
2:45:55>> I would say when the alarm went off, I
2:45:57got up. And
2:45:58>> What time do you think the alarm went
2:45:59off?
2:46:00>> About 4 or 5
2:46:01>> in the morning?
2:46:01>> Mhm.
2:46:02>> Is this for you to go to work?
2:46:03>> No, it's just for me to get up, you
2:46:05know. It's a It's just a habit, you
2:46:08know.
2:46:08>> Okay.
2:46:09>> Because when you work early mornings,
2:46:10it's a habit.
2:46:11>> Okay.
2:46:12>> So, I got up.
2:46:13>> Okay. And then I just
2:46:16took the gun and shot her.
2:46:18>> Okay. So, she hadn't woken up yet. She
2:46:20didn't hear the alarm.
2:46:21>> No,
2:46:21>> she slept the alarm.
2:46:23>> I can do that. I do it all the time.
2:46:26Okay. So, you had slept on it and woke
2:46:29up still angry.
2:46:30>> Yeah. Because, you know, I was I knew
2:46:33the argument was going to start all over
2:46:34again
2:46:35>> cuz you weren't going to get paid the
2:46:3615,
2:46:36>> right?
2:46:37>> So, it was going to be a bad day.
2:46:38>> Yeah.
2:46:39>> Okay.
2:46:40>> But I didn't mean to do it. And you're
2:46:43sorry.
2:46:43>> Oh, definitely. If I could do it all
2:46:46over, I would never have shot her.
2:46:48>> Never.
2:46:49>> Tell me what when you got up, you were
2:46:51obviously in your night clothes.
2:46:52>> Yeah.
2:46:53>> Did you go get coffee or anything or did
2:46:54you go right there?
2:46:54>> I don't drink coffee.
2:46:56>> Okay.
2:46:56>> I got a soda.
2:46:57>> You got a soda
2:46:59>> and then just went back into the
2:47:00bedroom.
2:47:02>> Okay. Take me through that slow. Okay.
2:47:04>> Slow.
2:47:05>> Yeah. Slower. You You get up. She's
2:47:07snoring.
2:47:08>> Mhm.
2:47:09>> Tell me what you did. I went back into
2:47:11the bedroom, got into the dresser
2:47:13drawer, pulled out the gun, and just
2:47:16shot her.
2:47:18>> Okay. Where was the gun kept in the
2:47:19drawer?
2:47:20>> It was in the third shelf. A third
2:47:22drawer.
2:47:22>> What was in that drawer other than the
2:47:24gun?
2:47:24>> Clothes.
2:47:25>> Whose clothes?
2:47:26>> Probably hers or mine. I don't know for
2:47:30sure.
2:47:30>> Well, if it was her clothes, she would
2:47:31have seen that gun before.
2:47:33>> So, it was mine.
2:47:34>> Okay. Is that right?
2:47:35>> Yeah.
2:47:35>> She did not know there was a gun in the
2:47:36house.
2:47:37>> Right.
2:47:37>> Okay.
2:47:38>> That's right.
2:47:38>> Okay. Yeah. So, you mind
2:47:40>> you knew the gun was there cuz you
2:47:41bought the gun, right?
2:47:42>> Several years before.
2:47:43>> Yeah.
2:47:44>> Because
2:47:44>> because the uh our neighbor kept saying
2:47:47that she was getting robbed by these
2:47:49black people or something like that.
2:47:51>> Neighbor.
2:47:52>> Yeah.
2:47:53>> And I couldn't believe it, you know, cuz
2:47:54I'm never home when this happens. And
2:47:57she would come over and tell me what had
2:47:59happened. And I told her I never seen
2:48:02anybody.
2:48:02>> You're talking about Shirley.
2:48:03>> Mhm.
2:48:04>> Okay.
2:48:04>> Right.
2:48:05>> So, you bought the gun?
2:48:06>> Mhm. for for our protection.
2:48:09>> Home protection.
2:48:09>> Yeah. For home protection.
2:48:11>> And you paid $60 for it, you think?
2:48:13>> I think it was
2:48:14>> the pawn shop that you bought it at.
2:48:16>> It was on Central Avenue, but I don't
2:48:17know exactly.
2:48:18>> Central towards St. Pete or central
2:48:20towards Treasure Island?
2:48:21>> Uh, St. Almost near downtown. St. Pete.
2:48:24>> Downtown. Okay. Um, you kept it loaded
2:48:27in that drawer.
2:48:28>> Oh, yeah.
2:48:29>> Okay.
2:48:29>> Yeah.
2:48:30>> So, was it in a holster?
2:48:32>> It didn't have a holster. It was in a a
2:48:34case.
2:48:35>> A black case. Okay. So, you
2:48:37>> kept it zipped up.
2:48:39>> Tell me how you got the gun out.
2:48:40>> Unzipped it and just took it out.
2:48:43>> Do you have it in your what hand?
2:48:44>> And my I'm right-handed all the way.
2:48:47>> Okay. And then you did what?
2:48:49>> I just pointed at her and shot it slow
2:48:53motion. It was like slow motion. It just
2:48:56hit her. I didn't think, you know, I was
2:48:58hoping it would miss, you know, just to
2:49:01make a point, you know, to tell her, you
2:49:03know, enough is enough. But when I hit
2:49:06her right in the head, I got scared.
2:49:10>> From me to you, were you farther or
2:49:12closer?
2:49:13>> I would say about a little bit further.
2:49:15>> A little bit further.
2:49:16>> Not that much further.
2:49:17>> Okay. She's sleeping in her bed.
2:49:20>> How's her position of her body?
2:49:22>> She's sleeping on her left. Her hands
2:49:23under the pillow.
2:49:25>> Okay.
2:49:25>> That's the way she's always slept.
2:49:27>> What was she wearing?
2:49:28>> She's wearing her night gown.
2:49:30>> You remember the color?
2:49:32>> Might have been pink. I don't know.
2:49:34>> For sure. But she's snoring, so you know
2:49:36she's asleep. Yeah.
2:49:37>> Okay. Um, you shoot her one time and a
2:49:40bullet hit her where?
2:49:41>> Right in the head. Right here.
2:49:43>> Cuz you're point I mean between the eyes
2:49:44just above the
2:49:45>> Well, it was about right right here, I
2:49:47guess.
2:49:47>> Below the hairline,
2:49:48>> I think. So, yeah.
2:49:49>> Okay. You're touching your forehead.
2:49:51>> Yeah. Well, we got short forehead, you
2:49:52know.
2:49:55>> Um, and then what happened?
2:49:59And then uh start gurgling and I put the
2:50:03you know the comforter over her so she
2:50:05wouldn't gurgle so loud.
2:50:07>> You actually told me though before that
2:50:09you said something.
2:50:10>> What?
2:50:12>> Before you did this?
2:50:14You said or thought something?
2:50:16>> Oh, I said I was sorry. And I said a
2:50:19little prayer
2:50:20>> prior to doing it.
2:50:21>> Prior to doing it.
2:50:22>> Okay. When the gun went off, make a lot
2:50:24of noise.
2:50:26>> It made It hurt my ear. hurt your ear.
2:50:28>> Mhm.
2:50:29>> Okay.
2:50:30>> Then what did you do?
2:50:32>> Put the gun back. And then when she was
2:50:34gurgling, that's when I put the
2:50:36comforter over.
2:50:37>> Okay. Did the brown
2:50:39>> Yeah.
2:50:39>> Could it Could it be called a blanket? A
2:50:40brown blanket?
2:50:41>> Yeah, it could be, but it's really a
2:50:43comforter.
2:50:44>> Where did the brown comforter come from?
2:50:45>> I bought it.
2:50:46>> I know, but where did
2:50:47>> Oh, from my bed.
2:50:48>> So, that was on your bed.
2:50:50>> Okay. Um, she slept on Star Wars sheets.
2:50:53>> I do. I do a lot of
2:50:55>> And then what did you do?
2:50:57I just put it over her face and then I
2:50:59wrapped her up in the plastic.
2:51:01>> What else did you when you were telling
2:51:02me about the blanket going over her
2:51:04face? Is it because she was
2:51:05>> She was gurgling.
2:51:07>> What else did you say?
2:51:07>> She was breathing.
2:51:08>> Okay.
2:51:10>> So,
2:51:10>> did her hands ever move out from up
2:51:12underneath the pillow?
2:51:13>> Nothing moved.
2:51:16>> Nothing.
2:51:17>> The gurgling sound you heard.
2:51:19>> Can you make that for me?
2:51:21>> No.
2:51:21>> Okay. Have you ever heard before?
2:51:23>> No.
2:51:24How long do you think she did this?
2:51:27>> Probably about a second or two.
2:51:30>> Okay. She never opened her eyes or
2:51:31anything. No.
2:51:33>> Okay. You put the gun back in the case?
2:51:35>> Mhm. Put it back in the drawer.
2:51:37>> Okay. And then
2:51:38>> after I emptied it first.
2:51:39>> Oh, you emptied it?
2:51:40>> Yeah. And I put it right back into the
2:51:41shell case.
2:51:43>> Oh, did you have to load the box?
2:51:44>> Yeah. The gun was already loaded.
2:51:46>> It was already loaded.
2:51:47>> Mhm.
2:51:48>> When you got it,
2:51:49>> right?
2:51:49>> So then you unloaded it
2:51:50>> after I shot her.
2:51:51>> What did you do with the bullets? Put
2:51:53them right back in that little black. It
2:51:55was a box.
2:51:56>> Okay.
2:51:56>> I put them right in that little
2:51:57shellcase.
2:51:58>> Shell case. Like that little holder?
2:52:00>> Yeah. No holders.
2:52:01>> Who loaded the gun?
2:52:02>> I did. I kept it loaded
2:52:04>> for years. Or
2:52:05>> for years for about that one year. Yeah.
2:52:08I kept it loaded. Cuz I was afraid. You
2:52:11know, they always say it takes time to
2:52:12load a gun, especially if you're nervous
2:52:15and nobody's coming at you, you know.
2:52:17>> That's true. Okay. And it was a five
2:52:19shot. It was It was six
2:52:21>> six shotters.
2:52:23>> It was a revolver.
2:52:24>> Yeah.
2:52:24>> And we discussed that.
2:52:26>> And the color of it?
2:52:27>> Black.
2:52:27>> And the handle?
2:52:29>> Black.
2:52:30>> The handle's black, too.
2:52:31>> Yeah. I think everything was black.
2:52:33>> Okay. Did it have a hammer? Do you know
2:52:34what a hammer is?
2:52:35>> Uh, yeah. This
2:52:36>> like a cocker. Yeah.
2:52:37>> Did it have that?
2:52:38>> Yeah.
2:52:39>> Okay. And then what happened?
2:52:42>> That was it. I just put went out and
2:52:46Kmart and got one of those plastic bags
2:52:49and put it on it.
2:52:50>> What did you put the bag on it for? What
2:52:52was the purpose?
2:52:53>> Keep her
2:52:55I don't know, tell you the truth. I
2:52:58don't know why I did that.
2:52:59>> Okay. Um,
2:53:02did the bag completely fit over her?
2:53:04>> No.
2:53:05>> How far did it go?
2:53:08>> Probably up to her face, I think.
2:53:11>> From her feet to her face. Mhm.
2:53:12>> Okay.
2:53:13>> Just one side.
2:53:15>> What do you mean just one side?
2:53:16>> Well, you know, I had to tuck it.
2:53:18>> Okay. Did you ever move her position of
2:53:21her body?
2:53:22>> I might have. I'm not sure.
2:53:26>> I'm not positive.
2:53:27>> Did you ever roll her over?
2:53:28>> I might have. I'm not sure. I know. I
2:53:31was when I was pushing pressure, she was
2:53:33rolling.
2:53:34>> Did you ever take her off the bed?
2:53:35>> No.
2:53:37>> Mhm.
2:53:38>> So, you put the plastic on her. Anything
2:53:39else that you put on her?
2:53:40>> That's it. Well, she was kind of um as
2:53:44>> far as I know.
2:53:46>> Hang on one second. We should have
2:53:48reviewed this. Okay. She was covered
2:53:51with a Star Wars comforter.
2:53:53>> Where'd that come from?
2:53:55>> Star. Oh, I put it on there.
2:53:57>> Okay. There was a white plastic mattress
2:53:59type cover with a zipper. That's what
2:54:01you were describing.
2:54:02>> Um there's a brown blanket baldled up
2:54:05covering her face. That's the comforter
2:54:07that came off your bed.
2:54:08>> Uh why was it she was sleep on? How many
2:54:11pillows?
2:54:12>> I think it was two or three.
2:54:13>> Two or three. Is that what she normally
2:54:14slept on?
2:54:15>> Yeah.
2:54:15>> Okay. And of course, there was a Star
2:54:17Wars sheet under that white plastic. So,
2:54:19that would have been what she was
2:54:20originally sleeping on,
2:54:21>> right?
2:54:21>> Okay. Uh, and she had a night gown on,
2:54:24>> right?
2:54:24>> Okay. So, we've covered that. After this
2:54:27happens, so this was on the 15th, August
2:54:2915th.
2:54:31>> What happens then? What? Tell me about
2:54:33your feelings. What you what you decided
2:54:34to do? Tell me things that you thought
2:54:36about doing.
2:54:38>> I didn't know what to do. Tell you the
2:54:40truth, I really didn't know what to do.
2:54:43>> Did you consult anyone?
2:54:46>> Never told anybody.
2:54:47>> A priest?
2:54:49>> No.
2:54:50>> How about a friend?
2:54:51>> No.
2:54:53No.
2:54:53>> Never told anybody.
2:54:56>> Do you remember ever sitting and crying?
2:54:58>> Oh, yeah. Lots of times.
2:55:00>> Where?
2:55:01>> In the living room or either in the
2:55:03other bedroom?
2:55:04>> While she was in the
2:55:05>> Yeah.
2:55:09When did you decide it was time to
2:55:10leave?
2:55:12>> I had a feeling that somebody was going
2:55:14to come and take the house. So, I
2:55:16decided to leave.
2:55:17>> You mean like a foreclosure?
2:55:18>> Yeah. Foreclosure.
2:55:20>> She recalled going to the judge and
2:55:22everything represent
2:55:23>> with my sister
2:55:24>> that they were going to lose the house,
2:55:25>> right?
2:55:26>> Oh, you had been to a a proceeding right
2:55:28before this?
2:55:29>> Yeah. Way before this.
2:55:31>> Because you weren't making the payment,
2:55:32>> right? We elapsed. Okay. because like I
2:55:35said the money was gone and everything
2:55:38else and it was hard to pay it and she
2:55:40loved you know cable and stuff like
2:55:43that. She always wanted to get like
2:55:45movie channel. She wanted to kept going
2:55:47up
2:55:48>> pay-per-views.
2:55:49>> Yeah. Okay.
2:55:50>> It came to like $100 something a month.
2:55:52>> What was the mortgage payment there?
2:55:54>> 600 and something.
2:55:56>> Okay.
2:55:57>> They wanted seven a month, you know. And
2:56:00I kept telling her before we moved in,
2:56:02we shouldn't get it. It was too much.
2:56:05>> Too much. Okay. So,
2:56:08you decided obviously someone's going to
2:56:10foreclose on it. They're going to come
2:56:11here and they're going to find her.
2:56:13>> Right.
2:56:13>> I need to leave.
2:56:14>> Right. I was afraid.
2:56:16>> Okay. I understand. You got to the bus
2:56:19station, left the van there,
2:56:21>> and you took a Greyhound.
2:56:22>> Yeah. Took Greyhound to get here.
2:56:24>> To where?
2:56:25>> To Virginia.
2:56:26>> Do you know where you went?
2:56:27>> To Virginia Beach. Do you know where
2:56:29they dropped you off or?
2:56:30>> Uh,
2:56:32somewhere down by Virginia Beach. You're
2:56:34still on Virginia Beach. I don't know
2:56:36exactly.
2:56:37>> Okay. What did you bring with you?
2:56:39>> My suitcases. I had two suitcases and
2:56:41then my black bag as you saw.
2:56:43>> Two suitcases of
2:56:45>> clothes.
2:56:46>> Okay. And the black bag is like
2:56:48>> it's for my uniform, my wallet. I got
2:56:51money in it and stuff.
2:56:53>> Where was the first place you stayed
2:56:54when you got here? I stayed in a hotel
2:56:57for a couple of days and then I tried to
2:56:59find a place trying to find a job and
2:57:01then that's when I found Cindy.
2:57:04>> Cindy Simon. So when I called about that
2:57:08trailer,
2:57:09>> Cindy at the at that place for the for
2:57:11rent sign.
2:57:11>> Mhm.
2:57:12>> Is she black?
2:57:13>> She's white.
2:57:13>> She's white. Okay.
2:57:14>> Yeah, she's white. And I asked her about
2:57:16it and she said, "Okay." And then she
2:57:18helped me out. You know, I didn't have
2:57:20no money. She knew that. So she kept me
2:57:22there in that trailer so that way, you
2:57:26know, I wouldn't have to pay that much.
2:57:28And when I did get the money and get the
2:57:29job, I would pay her. But it got so dag
2:57:32on cold I had to leave. So I left and
2:57:35went to the shelter.
2:57:36>> How'd you get a job at 7-Eleven?
2:57:38>> I applied for it.
2:57:39>> Is that your first job in Virginia?
2:57:41>> After you Okay.
2:57:42>> All right. Um, you put your twoe notice
2:57:45in at 7-Eleven.
2:57:46>> Yeah, because of my feet. I had problems
2:57:49with my feet. That's why. Where were you
2:57:51going to go?
2:57:52>> Nowhere. Just stay at the shelter and
2:57:55look for a sit down job. That's what I
2:57:58wanted to do.
2:57:59>> Okay.
2:58:02>> I kept telling people stories,
2:58:05you know, about the lot. I told them the
2:58:07hurricane took the trailer and stuff
2:58:09like that.
2:58:10>> Who'd you tell that to?
2:58:11>> My boss.
2:58:12>> Your boss where?
2:58:13>> At 7-Eleven.
2:58:14>> Oh, at 7-Eleven. Here. Mary.
2:58:16>> No. Joyce.
2:58:17>> Joyce. I'm sorry. I got 50 names in my
2:58:19head. I apologize. choice
2:58:21>> and we've been traveling. So, okay. Um,
2:58:25and then of course you told uh Shirley
2:58:29that actually you told Shirley that
2:58:30Debbie wasn't going to come back till
2:58:32after hurricane season,
2:58:33>> right?
2:58:33>> Cuz you've been through some hurricanes,
2:58:35>> haven't you?
2:58:35>> Yeah.
2:58:36>> Okay.
2:58:37>> Yeah.
2:58:37>> Um,
2:58:38>> even that last one was a doozy.
2:58:40>> Yeah, I bet. Um,
2:58:44oh, and the hole digging. When do you
2:58:46think you dug that hole?
2:58:47>> I dug it way before before she died.
2:58:51>> Okay.
2:58:51>> Okay. It was like in January.
2:58:53>> No, no, it was in it was in August cuz
2:58:55Shirley wrote it down
2:58:56>> that you August 04.
2:58:58>> I had it going in January. She just
2:59:00never noticed.
2:59:01>> She never noticed. Okay.
2:59:02>> Right.
2:59:02>> Yeah. She wanted all those bricks that
2:59:04you
2:59:05>> Yes. Okay.
2:59:05>> I was buying the bricks so that way it
2:59:07could make it look really pretty after I
2:59:09put the cement down to make it like a
2:59:11driveway. I had it all figured out how I
2:59:14was going to do it.
2:59:15>> Okay. Um,
2:59:19is there anything else that we haven't
2:59:20talked about that you think is
2:59:22important?
2:59:24>> That I'm, you know, I didn't mean to do
2:59:26what I did. That's the only thing.
2:59:29>> I wish you were alive.
2:59:31>> You've never done nothing like this
2:59:32before. I mean, you've never even been
2:59:34arrested.
2:59:34>> No,
2:59:37you never got a ticket.
2:59:39>> We've got some tickets.
2:59:40>> I don't I mean car tickets. Driving
2:59:42tickets. What are those tickets for? Uh,
2:59:46not that it matters, but they were like
2:59:48um improper passing or improper tag.
2:59:51It's like in 1989.
2:59:53What have been when you lived in
2:59:54Grailia?
2:59:55>> Oh, Grailla. Yeah.
2:59:56>> Oh, that's when I returned the tag from
2:59:59the other car.
3:00:00>> Well, I mean, like I said, nothing.
3:00:03>> Pibly. Um, and the the gun, you put it
3:00:05back in a dresser,
3:00:06>> right?
3:00:07>> And you left it there,
3:00:08>> right?
3:00:08>> When you left for Virginia,
3:00:11>> it was still there
3:00:12>> on October 1st. It was still there. Mhm.
3:00:14>> You mentioned that you put the bullets
3:00:15back in the How about there's one that
3:00:17would have been empty?
3:00:18>> It's in there.
3:00:19>> You put it right back where
3:00:20>> I put it where it could be hidden.
3:00:22>> What do you mean where it could be
3:00:23hidden?
3:00:24>> Yeah, like in the middle.
3:00:25>> Oh, of the thing. Okay.
3:00:26>> Of the case.
3:00:27>> Okay.
3:00:28>> When did you realize that the gig is up?
3:00:33>> When you came.
3:00:34>> Really? Right there at the 7-Eleven.
3:00:37>> Yeah.
3:00:38>> Okay.
3:00:39>> Yeah.
3:00:39>> Then that's why you asked us where we
3:00:41were from.
3:00:41>> Yeah. because I I had a feeling.
3:00:46>> Does it feel good to
3:00:47>> tell the truth? Yes,
3:00:49>> it does. But it hurts so bad. It really
3:00:54hurts.
3:00:55>> You love your sister,
3:00:56>> huh? About my sister? Yeah.
3:00:58>> You love her?
3:00:59>> Oh, yeah. I loved her very much. I just
3:01:03wish I never pulled a trigger.
3:01:06I really wish.
3:01:09>> Have you confided this in anybody other
3:01:11than I? I couldn't I was afraid what
3:01:14they might do. I was just afraid.
3:01:19I didn't know what to do. I didn't know
3:01:21who to trust or anybody.
3:01:25That's why I said I have no family. I
3:01:27told everybody I never had anything.
3:01:30To this day, they think I don't.
3:01:35And it's really hard not to talk to
3:01:38anybody about it. You had to get it off
3:01:40your chest. It was eating up.
3:01:43>> Yeah.
3:01:43>> When we were first talking today and you
3:01:45were talking about Cindy, that was
3:01:47heavy.
3:01:50>> I mean, even when you said that's her
3:01:51dog,
3:01:52>> it was both of our dogs.
3:01:53>> I know, but you can just tell.
3:01:55>> Oh, by my face, my expression.
3:01:58>> Yes.
3:02:02>> Okay. Is there You want anything to eat
3:02:03or drink?
3:02:05>> No, I don't.
3:02:07>> Okay. Well, what I'm going to do is I'm
3:02:09going to shut the tape off.
3:02:10>> Okay.
3:02:10>> Okay. I'm going to go follow up with the
3:02:12phone calls and, you know, we'll just
3:02:15make this as painless and easy as we
3:02:17can. Okay.
3:02:18>> How are we going to get there?
3:02:20>> That's what That's what we're working on
3:02:21right now. I can be honest with you.
3:02:22I've never had to go out of the state
3:02:24before, you know. That's Hey, that's No,
3:02:26no, no problem.
3:02:28>> I'm sorry. I should just stay there and
3:02:30face the music. That's what I should
3:02:32have done, but I'm so scared.
3:02:35>> Yeah, but you didn't go and change your
3:02:36name and You've been cooperative.
3:02:38>> Do that.
3:02:39>> No, you've been cooperative 100%. I
3:02:41mean,
3:02:42>> you didn't lie. You just said you
3:02:43couldn't recall, didn't
3:02:46>> I? I think everything went pretty good.
3:02:48As good as it could have.
3:02:49>> Yeah.
3:02:50>> All right. Bathroom break.
3:02:52>> Okay.
3:02:53>> Okay.
3:02:53>> Okay. It is um 11:14 uh May 9th and uh
3:02:57we're going to be ending the interview.
3:02:59>> What's going to happen to all my stuff?
3:03:02>> What kind of stuff you got?
3:03:03>> Yeah, my clothes and stuff. I ordered
3:03:06some cool shorts and nipples come to the
3:03:08PO box.
3:03:10>> The PO box. Well, I we can probably get
3:03:12your personal belongings for you. And uh
3:03:14you know, we that's the minor thing, you
3:03:17know, for us to worry about this time,
3:03:18but uh do you have any animals or
3:03:20anything that we need to know about?
3:03:21>> Animals? No.
3:03:22>> Okay. Well, obviously you're some kind
3:03:24of dog lover.
3:03:25>> Oh, I love animals.
3:03:26>> You should have saw your face when you
3:03:27saw
3:03:27>> What was the dog's name, by the way?
3:03:29Koso.
3:03:30>> No, it [ __ ]
3:03:32>> Elvis. No, Elvis was the bird. Elvis was
3:03:34Oh, you remembered the bird cocktail.
3:03:37>> I did all my work. I know the dog.
3:03:39>> He died. He died of a heart attack.
3:03:42>> What about the dog's name?
3:03:45>> Oh. Um, God, I can't think of it.
3:03:48>> It'll come to me.
3:03:49>> He was a long-haired Chihuahua.
3:03:51>> Yeah, you got that right. You
3:03:53>> Coco.
3:03:54>> Coco.
3:03:55>> I was told it was Coco. No.
3:03:57>> No, it's not Coco.
3:03:58>> Debbie had a long-haired Chihuahua.
3:04:00Coco.
3:04:01>> No, it wasn't Coco. Okay,
3:04:02>> I know that. Perfect.
3:04:05>> Okay.
3:04:06>> I can't think of a thing.
3:04:08>> Inherited money from Joe Burns. You said
3:04:10John Burns.
3:04:10>> John.
3:04:11>> Okay. So, they were just wrong,
3:04:12>> right?
3:04:12>> Okay. Gotcha. But Bobby is your brother
3:04:14cuz Okay.
3:04:15>> Yeah. He's my brother.
3:04:17>> All right.
3:04:18>> Not going to know about this, right?
3:04:19>> He's not going to be told by us. I mean,
3:04:20if he searches the internet or
3:04:22something, I mean, I can't help that.
3:04:23But I'm not telling him.
3:04:25>> Good.
3:04:25>> Okay. So, I don't
3:04:26>> We're not here to embarrass you. I mean,
3:04:27I don't know. Yo, this is about as
3:04:29painless and as nice as anyone can be
3:04:32treated.
3:04:33>> Yeah, I see now on TV how they got
3:04:35treated,
3:04:36>> right?
3:04:36>> Beaten up.
3:04:37>> We don't do nothing like that. We just
3:04:39do all our homework and
3:04:40>> Yeah.
3:04:41>> Didn't come talk to you.
3:04:41>> You don't know how badly I wanted to
3:04:43confess when you kept staring at me.
3:04:44>> I did.
3:04:46>> You just didn't know.
3:04:47>> You said you told both of us you wanted
3:04:49to. She even told you you wanted to tell
3:04:50us.
3:04:51>> Okay. You're a good person.
3:04:53>> I try.
3:04:54>> Okay.
3:04:56To the restroom. Okay.
3:04:58>> And then
3:04:58>> I'm going to make this on hot.
3:05:01>> What?
3:05:01>> I want take the hot heat off.
3:05:07>> Take your time.
3:05:11>> We've been sitting for a while. Yeah.
3:05:14>> Barbara Anne Burns told investigators
3:05:16that after decades of caring for her
3:05:18disabled sister, she reached a breaking
3:05:20point on Debbie's 40th birthday. What
3:05:22began as another argument over money
3:05:24ended with a single gunshot and with it
3:05:26the end of a life defined by dependence
3:05:28and sacrifice. Prosecutors originally
3:05:31charged Barbara with first-degree
3:05:32murder, but the case quickly stood out
3:05:34as unusual. She had no history of
3:05:37violence, no record of crime, and by
3:05:39nearly every account had lived a life of
3:05:41selflessness until that one night. In
3:05:442006, she pleaded guilty to manslaughter
3:05:46and was sentenced to 15 years in prison.
3:05:49Barbara served about 12 years before her
3:05:51release in 2018. Now in her 60s, she has
3:05:55spoken of her remorse and her ongoing
3:05:56grief, insisting she can barely recall
3:05:59the moment she pulled the trigger. If
3:06:01you found this video informative, please
3:06:02consider leaving a like and subscribing
3:06:04to the channel, as it really helps
3:06:06support our work and allows us to
3:06:08continue covering important stories like
3:06:09this one. Thank you.

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