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Candace Owens vs 20 Feminists | Surrounded — Transcript

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0:00women, they don't want to stay at home
0:01when you pull them. They just want
0:02flexible working hours and flexible
0:04working conditions like you have. And I
0:06think we should all advocate for that.
0:07It's not one or the other. But when you
0:08sit here and you go, you'll be more
0:10fulfilled doing this than spend all your
0:11time doing that. We would love for you
0:13to leave the public eye and go focus on
0:14what makes you fulfilled. Okay.
0:18Hi, my name is Candace Owens. I am a
0:20podcaster, a mother, a wife, and also
0:22the author of the upcoming book, Make
0:24Him a Sandwich. And today I am
0:26surrounded by 20 feminists.
0:32My first claim is that the sexual
0:34revolution has devalued women and made
0:37them infinitely less happy.
0:47Hi. Hello.
0:50Hi. Hi. I'm Somaya. Somaya. Nice to meet
0:53you. I'm Candace. Nice to meet you, too.
0:55So my question for you is statistics
0:57show that 60% of women who are murdered
1:01are murdered by their intimate partners
1:04murdered by someone that they are in
1:05close relations with. Uh that's
1:07according to the UN uh from 2023. Yeah.
1:11So how is it that you know women are so
1:14valued you know quote unquote in the
1:15home and yet that's the place where
1:18they're at the most danger. Okay. So I'm
1:20not sure what that has to do with the
1:22sexual revolution. Right. sexual
1:23revolution.
1:25The sexual revolution gave I'm happy to
1:26answer it. I'm just saying that, you
1:28know, if you brought in that statistic,
1:30you are more likely in general just to
1:32be murdered by somebody, you know. So,
1:34of course, but men are much less likely
1:35to be murdered by, you know, their
1:37That's not true.
1:40Yeah, I'm sure. Because men are less
1:41likely to be murdered by women. Full
1:43stop. That's Yeah, exact. So, that
1:44statistic makes sense to me. I'm still
1:47not sure how this correlates to whether
1:48or not this sexual revolution increased
1:51women's ability to leave the house,
1:53women's ability to control their own
1:54reproductive capabilities, women's
1:57ability to, you know, control their own
1:59like capacity within the workforce in
2:02regards to their own sexual capacity.
2:04So, it is the very fact that like the
2:07sexual revolution happened that made our
2:09access to the workplace much more or or
2:12just the public sphere in general much
2:14more easy. So like without the sexual
2:17revolution, women would be much more
2:20confined to the place where they're at
2:21the most danger. Isn't that true? Uh so
2:24you think that just so I'm trying to
2:25understand your argument here, you think
2:26that if we didn't have the sexual
2:28revolution, less women or more women
2:30would be murdered? Are you saying that
2:31women are more women would be murdered?
2:33For sure. Okay. Um I disagree with that.
2:36I still don't think it has anything to
2:37do with the claim that women are
2:39infinitely less happy because of the
2:41sexual revolution which has deval
2:44less happy if you're being murdered. Oh,
2:48anyone disagree? Okay. Yeah. I don't
2:50Okay. Okay. There is definitely a
2:53correlation between personal
2:54relationships and domestic violence. And
2:56just to be clear, if we're talking about
2:58just like a monogous relationships, the
3:00most violent relationships that are on
3:02the books are between lesbian partners.
3:04Yes. when people are intimate. That's
3:05not that's not a truth. That is actually
3:07true there. No, the statistic you're
3:08talking about is people who have faced
3:10domestic violence. Lesbians, yes, are
3:12more likely to have faced domestic
3:13violence, but that's because they
3:14typically came from relationships with
3:16men in which lesbian relationships are
3:18the most violent relationships that we
3:20have on the planet. They can fact check
3:22that claim. The point being is that it's
3:23not exactly a stunning statistic to say
3:25that when people are in relationships
3:26period, whether those relationships are
3:28homosexual, whether they're saying that
3:30the sexual relationship Let me finish.
3:31I' I've let you try to explain how this
3:33is correlated to happiness and I I don't
3:34think it does. I I actually think you're
3:36you're having a different debate right
3:38now, but it Yes, absolutely. It makes
3:40perfect sense that you are more likely
3:42in general when you are in a
3:43relationship because people are driven
3:45by anger by people that they know
3:47whether or not we're talking about
3:49boyfriend and girlfriend, girlfriend and
3:50girlfriend, uh you know, a husband and a
3:53wife, a husband and a husband or a wife
3:54and a wife. Yes, of course, the
3:57instances of domestic violence are going
3:59to take place when you're inside of a
4:00home. But the sexual revolution,
4:03encouraging women to give up their goods
4:05for free, which is what I'm speaking
4:06about, and encouraging men not to marry
4:09these women or to have long-term
4:10relationships, what I am saying is a a
4:12direct contributor to their unhappiness
4:15because women are giving up their goods
4:17for free and women are now entering the
4:19workplace and that does not actually
4:20make them happy. Okay, pause. Sorry,
4:23you've been voted out by the majority.
4:24Please return to your seat.
4:33Hello. Hi there. How are you? I'm
4:35Candace. Candice. Nice to meet Nice to
4:36meet you. Um Julian, my pronouns are
4:38they, them. It's very interesting to
4:40think of it when we think about the
4:41gender binary. Um I it's, you know, how
4:43do we place value on human beings in
4:46general? And so when we think about, you
4:48know, placing value that comes from a p
4:50a place of power, right? So I think
4:52let's select like the Victorian era. you
4:54have this dominant group of people
4:55coming from white supremacy deciding who
4:58gets to have um a a a proper status in
5:02the world. And so that is already like
5:04placed taking human beings and devaluing
5:06them. And so what the sexual revolution
5:09did was to help people seek out
5:11empowerment which increased value no
5:14matter the gender. So when it comes to
5:16sexual revolution, let's look at one
5:18contribution is sex education. I'm
5:20actually an educator. I teach uh
5:22sociology and LGBTQ studies and I have
5:24absolutely seen the positive outcome
5:26with the sexual revolution and sex
5:28education and seen people empower
5:30themselves and with that comes uh safety
5:33when it comes to um decreasing STI uh
5:36abuse uh sexual assault again people get
5:39to empower themselves of all genders and
5:41I know earlier you mentioned about uh
5:43violence amongst uh lesbians and safic
5:46community which I do identify within all
5:48genders can be subjected to violence
5:50that was the point I was making. So, I
5:51wasn't sure of how her claim was
5:52relating to what we were talking about,
5:54whether or not it makes people happy or
5:55unhappy. Relationships are obviously a
5:58ground where there can be violence. I
6:01guess I could just wrap it up by saying
6:02like if we all have access to like sex
6:04education through the incredible work of
6:06feminists through the sex sexual
6:08revolution, we are able to gain access
6:11to information and gain skills to create
6:13an equitable society, egalitarian,
6:15within our relationships, whether they
6:17be platonic or romantic. I'm so grateful
6:19for those feminists who have fought for
6:20us so we can gain those spaces and
6:23create a healthier society. Okay. Are
6:25you a believer in the government doing
6:28everything that it can to make people
6:29happy? So when it comes as someone that
6:31teaches in the public sector, um I
6:33understand the concern when it comes
6:34about what is a teacher, you know, what
6:37kind of information they're providing to
6:38the students. Um I do believe that we as
6:42a teacher, I should be able to give that
6:45sort of information. Again, I teach
6:47college students. One of my claims is I
6:49believe that we should mandate uh uh sex
6:51education amongst college students. Um
6:54so yes, I do want the state I would like
6:56the government to give us those
6:58resources so we can implement that
7:01curriculum. Okay. Would you are you
7:03consider yourself a feminist? I'm
7:05assuming a queer feminist. There's
7:07there's diff there's variations, right?
7:09What is a queer feminist as opposed to a
7:11feminist? Just so I understand. Well,
7:13like so I heavily believe in queer
7:15theory. So you know the gender binary
7:18that we understand it comes from
7:19colonization. So someone who is mixed
7:21race um family from Mexico you know um
7:25we have the mushes of Mexico which is an
7:26indigenous tribe they believed in gender
7:28fluidity and then you have European
7:30colonizers coming who dismantle that and
7:33now everything that we understand when
7:34it comes to gender is a western lens. So
7:36from a queer you don't even think women
7:38exist. I'm guessing I think everyone
7:40should be empowered to figure out their
7:42identity and explore the language that
7:44best describes themselves. So freedom,
7:47America, right? America freedom and I
7:49want to believe in that when it comes to
7:51identity. Everyone should have the
7:52freedom to decide how they want to
7:54identify as long as they're not causing
7:56harm. But that's where we get into the
7:57debate. What is harm? So just again to
8:00be clear to go back to this claim, we
8:01are debating female happiness. You are
8:04saying you do not identify as a female.
8:07I identify with all gender expressions.
8:09So from masculinity to femininity. I So
8:11I'm just saying,
8:14are you just saying that as as a part of
8:16queer theory, you're debating whether or
8:18not women are happier after the se sex
8:20section revolution? I'm just trying to
8:21understand because it seems like you're
8:22debating queer theory as opposed to
8:23female. I believe all genders benefit
8:25from the sexual revolution. You've been
8:27voted out by the majority. Please return
8:29to your seat.
8:30[Applause]
8:31[Music]
8:39Hello, I'm Zena. Zena, very much like
8:42your name. Thank you so much. Nice to
8:43meet you. Can we start with the
8:44beginning? Do you identify as a female?
8:46I identify as a woman. Yeah. Okay.
8:48Right. So, I I do want to like get back
8:50to your premise. You're saying that
8:52women have been devalued, right, by the
8:54sexual revolution. This like kind of
8:56presumes two things. One, that there has
8:58been a loss of worth, right, for women.
9:01So you're saying that women have as
9:03human beings lost worth. Women who prior
9:06to their seol sexual revolution were
9:08worth worth more than women today. I
9:11would say that yes, women have devalued
9:13themselves by becoming overtly sexual.
9:16Uh that's my claim. So I mean also
9:18according to just and and let's not
9:20remove this from the other part of the
9:21claim which that has it has made women
9:23infinitely less happy. Right. So are you
9:25saying but you're saying that according
9:27to you women have been devalued? Not
9:29according to me. Um uh according to the
9:32time in which people are getting
9:33married, how difficult it is for people
9:35to find a partner that's willing to
9:36commit to them. And I think that's in
9:37large part due to the fact that women
9:39are offering sex for free because it was
9:41a main, you know, a major component of
9:43the sexual revolution was this idea. So
9:45a woman's worth is tied to her
9:46sexuality. It's not it's not tied to
9:48Well, absolutely. If you're going to be
9:50having multiple partners, you are going
9:51to be devaluing yourself. I you're worth
9:53less as a human being. Not as a human
9:55being. just, you know, in terms of
9:57trying to have a partnership and a
9:59productive relationship. Certainly, men
10:00are not going to be clamoring to have a
10:02relationship with somebody when there's
10:04the market is throwing them. A man's
10:06response to your actions is what defines
10:08your worth, right? Yeah. Well, um I
10:10would say that I would argue that at the
10:14what makes women actually happy is
10:16family. So, if you're interrupting, so
10:19just to connect the dots for you, when
10:20women are having sex with multiple
10:23partners, it devalues them for men,
10:25right? For men. So men define a woman's
10:27worth. Well, I would say both of them
10:28kind of define one another's worth
10:30because I think the ultimate goal for
10:31people to be happy is actually family.
10:33Okay. So you're saying in all cases a
10:36woman is going to be more fulfilled in
10:38regards to family. Like exactly what I'm
10:40saying. And this is going to work in all
10:41cases. You're saying there's no
10:42individual case in which a woman can
10:43feel you know fulfilled without being
10:47tied to other people in in the case of I
10:50think there could be an exceptional case
10:52for everything. I think there are
10:54exceptional cases. Uh but I think that
10:56if we all start trying to be the
10:58exception as opposed to recognizing the
11:00rule which is that people in life are
11:02more fulfilled when they achieve a
11:04family unit and when they have children,
11:07women in particular especially having
11:08aspiring to children then you are going
11:10to end up with a bunch of people who are
11:12unhappy because your job cannot replace
11:15the feeling of having a family. So what
11:18you're saying is we need to look at
11:20every individual case and see what is
11:22going to fulfill you or what is going to
11:24I guess essentially predict your
11:25happiness more because if we look at for
11:27example the Nordic countries right these
11:28are countries I'm talking about like
11:30Sweden Denmark right these countries
11:32tend to be like I think in the past 14
11:35years they've been ranked as the highest
11:36in happiness and marital satisfaction
11:38from women right and we see that they
11:40also have been the most open regards to
11:42like you know sexual norms and and you
11:44know sexual roles right so and we also
11:46see that there's less rates of like STDs
11:48reported. Um we see um more um and
11:51that's also due to comprehensive sex
11:53education that's pushed in those
11:54countries. So we see that when we and
11:56that's like a direct result of the
11:57sexual revolution, right? So when we're
11:59seeing that direct reports of happiness,
12:00right, we don't have these same rates in
12:02America in these countries that are more
12:03sexually open, why would we see like
12:06those rates in those type of countries?
12:07So, I think you might be referring to
12:09this sort of mass-produced study that
12:11was a part of like a behavioral science
12:13study which said that women were the the
12:15happiest women in the world were women
12:16that were actually unmarried and had
12:18careers. No. Okay. Well, reported
12:20happiness. Okay. Sure. I'm talking about
12:22the same thing. It was reported
12:23happiness, but it could be a different
12:25there's tons of studies. The point being
12:26is that in 20 in 2023 there was this
12:29massive scandal where they recognized
12:31that a lot of these studies that were
12:32being produced behavioral science was
12:34proven to be a complete fraud and they
12:36were unable to reproduce these studies
12:37and they also found that the data had
12:39been faked. The data that we can look at
12:41that I think shows and you can let me
12:42know if you agree with this. If women
12:44and under the imagination of the
12:46feminist umbrella were really unhappy
12:48when they were in the home and then
12:50entering the workforce has made women
12:53happier and infinitely feeling more
12:55secure about themselves, we could, I
12:58think, reasonably expect that there
12:59would have been a decrease in suicide
13:02rates amongst women. You would have to
13:04go ahead and show how that correlation,
13:07right, is going to be a direct cause of
13:09women going into the workforce. Okay.
13:11Well, how can we measure? Then you have
13:12to give me a way that we can measure
13:14happiness. How can we measure happiness?
13:15I I would say suicide rates would be a
13:17good thing to look at. Drug, alcohol
13:19consumption would be a good course,
13:20right? But we have to we we can say I
13:22can say at this point in society, I
13:23don't think everyone is happy. I think
13:24there's a lot of things that we need to
13:26reconcile in society. That's what I'm
13:27getting at. But we have to look at the
13:29cause, right? Why are are these things
13:31predicted, right? And and for example,
13:33if we talk about men, there are a lot of
13:34things we can look at, right? That um
13:36that you know tend to predetermine
13:38suicide, right? But we can't say, "Oh,
13:40these two things are happening at the
13:42same time. This caused this other
13:43thing." Yes, that's right. But I do
13:45think that we can objectively say that
13:47women who are are committing suicide
13:49rates more than they were in the 1950s.
13:52Like it has it has actually increased
13:54marginally. That's not a sign that the
13:57us entering the workforce suddenly made
13:59us cause of the workforce. We've all
14:01we're also binge binge drinking at a
14:03higher rate.
14:05At a higher rate, how is this a cause of
14:07entering? I think women are being put on
14:09a pathway aspirationally. But you're
14:11going to have to You're saying you think
14:12this, right? But where is worth a cause?
14:14Like you're not you're not, you know,
14:16substantiating the claim. You're saying
14:17this is what I think. I'm seeing two.
14:19Okay. Pause. You've been voted out by
14:20the majority. Please return to your
14:22seat. Thank you so much. Great job.
14:24Great job.
14:29[Music]
14:32Hello. Hi. Hi. I'm Nikki. Nice to meet
14:34you. So when we're talking about the
14:36value of women uh on a societal scale
14:38and how we view each other, right,
14:41when you're devaluing us, you're
14:43objectifying us and and follow me, I
14:47promise. But rape rates have gone down
14:51by about half in the last 20 years,
14:54right? So
14:56if you're saying we're less valuable
14:58now, why wouldn't we be suffering at a
15:00higher rate? So is the argument that
15:03you're making, just so I understand,
15:04that because women are giving up sex for
15:06free, they're not being raped. Every
15:09study shows rape is not correlated with
15:11just sexual gratification. It is a power
15:13structure. Okay? So it is about
15:16objectifying and abusing women when you
15:18rape them, not about whether or not you
15:19want sex. What I am saying is that women
15:22are less objectified.
15:24So therefore, we are being raped less.
15:26Okay. So, you think that in today's
15:28society, cuz this is this is pretty wild
15:31for me. In the 1950s, you're saying
15:34women were more objectified than today
15:36in the land of only fans, the Kardashian
15:40clan, and women that are essentially
15:42putting up their boobs and butts for
15:44free on Instagram. You're saying we are
15:46now we've finally have achieved less
15:49objectification where women can't even
15:51get onto an advertising. you can't even
15:54advertise a bag without them having to
15:56be naked in order for them to get a
15:58career as a model. You're saying, "Oh,
16:00great. We've achieved actually less
16:01objectification." So, I'm not trying to
16:05suggest that I think that the
16:07overcommodification of women's bodies is
16:10positive. But what I am saying is that
16:13when you're going to the 1950s that we
16:14shouldn't put this glazed look of, oh,
16:17it was so happy we had single-income
16:18households and we got to stay home. We
16:20also had a pill popping problem. We also
16:22were viewed as maids like we were seen
16:25as a house appliance far more than we
16:26were as people. And so when you have
16:29that kind of objectification where you
16:32are in a subservient position,
16:36I think we're facing a different form
16:38today. But I think that rape is a
16:41signifier of a contradiction to your
16:44statement. Okay. Does that make sense?
16:46Um it doesn't make sense, but I I I do
16:48want to rebut it on a couple of points.
16:49So, first I just want to say suggesting
16:51that objectification is has gone
16:53downward since the 1950s is well that's
16:56just a firm no that is not the truth and
16:58you know that's not true. Wait, so do
16:59you but hold on let me let me answer
17:00your second thing. Second thing you you
17:02then brought up okay women were at home
17:03but they were pill popping. Well, it's
17:05you then have to acknowledge we're
17:07actually popping more pills now, right?
17:09So we have actually increased our amount
17:11of pill popping. women are having
17:13overdoses on opioids and on top of that
17:16since I think 1999 by rate we are
17:19increasing our opioid use compared to
17:21men. So women are not popping pills less
17:24because we're going into the workforce.
17:26That's actually not true at all either.
17:27Or so we're and we're also like I said
17:29to you consuming alcohol more and binge
17:31drinking more than we did in the 1950s
17:33which is why I was trying to get her to
17:34say we need to look at actually a
17:36reasonable give me any reasonable metric
17:38of how we can define happiness because
17:39it's hard right? Are you happy? Yes or
17:41no? Sure. But you're Wait, hold on.
17:42We're actually avoiding what my original
17:44point was was about rape being the
17:45signifier. Okay, pause. You've been
17:47voted out by the majority. Please return
17:49to your seat. Thank you. Nice to meet
17:52you.
17:56[Applause]
17:58Hi. Hi. I like your hat. Whitney
18:01Shanahan. Nice to meet you.
18:03I am fascinated by your claim uh that
18:07women have lost happiness since the
18:11sexual revolution since the 1950s. Do
18:14you think that there is any tie to
18:17happiness and freedom and happiness and
18:21choice? Because since 1950s,
18:24since the sexual revolution, women have
18:26gotten exponentially more freedom and
18:29more choice. And for me as a mother and
18:33as a woman having the freedom to choose
18:36what I do to make my own destiny makes
18:39me infinitely more happy than say back
18:43before the sexual revolution when I
18:44couldn't get a bank account couldn't get
18:46a home loan uh couldn't work outside the
18:48home couldn't travel around without a
18:50man uh couldn't control my own
18:52reproduction. So I feel that happiness
18:56personally my belief is tied to our
18:58ability to have freedom and I think that
19:00in the United States protecting freedom
19:03and our individual freedoms is what's
19:05going to lead us to happiness. Um did
19:08you go to college? Absolutely. Okay.
19:10Great. Did you? Yes, I did. So you have
19:12a degree? Absolutely. Now when you went
19:14to college, did you go to college
19:16because it was simply something that you
19:18wanted to do or did you think that I
19:19have to go to college because in order
19:21to get a job I have to have a college
19:22degree? I went to college for art
19:24because I was fascinated with art. Okay.
19:28Just answering my question. Did you go
19:29to co did was that the only reason you
19:31went to college or did you think that I
19:32might want to do something in art so I
19:34have to go to college like for my
19:35career? I went to school because I
19:37wanted to expand my horizons. I mean I
19:40think that's why most people go to
19:42university. Why? Why? That's actually
19:43that's actually not true. A lot of I I
19:45went and I think a lot of people go
19:46because there's a a pressure that if you
19:48don't go to college, you're going to be
19:49a failure. It's a choice. Everything's a
19:51choice. So taking away choices doesn't
19:54make people happier. Taking away
19:57I'm disagreeing with you on the idea
19:58that people are feeling more free by
20:01financial pressure. I think financial
20:02pressure makes people feel remarkably
20:04less free. So you want no bank accounts.
20:05Again, women not to have credit cards.
20:07I'm not saying that women shouldn't have
20:08access to credit cards or bank accounts.
20:10You're putting words in my mouth. So why
20:12don't you respond to the words that I'm
20:13saying? Well, less financial pressure.
20:14If I don't have a bank account, that's a
20:16lot less financial pressure. I guess
20:17that financial pressure in terms of most
20:19people that go to college, and I'm I'm
20:22counting myself among them. It's because
20:25typically in order to get the job that
20:27you're being sold is going to make you
20:28infinitely happier and infinitely more
20:30free. It just requires a college degree.
20:32And most of these people, to be clear,
20:34have to put themselves, the majority of
20:35people have to put themselves into debt.
20:37And I don't think anybody would describe
20:39debt as a form of freedom, right? I
20:40don't think anybody would realistically
20:42say, let's get back to happiness. So,
20:43we're here to talk about happiness and
20:45how the sexual revolution and we're not
20:47talking about college debt. I think it's
20:49important because we are we're talking
20:50about freedom. You just said that the
20:52reason why I feel happy is because I
20:54have more freedom. And I am saying that
20:56financial restraints and debt doesn't
20:58make people feel more free. Let's
21:00eliminate the debt. Let's eliminate
21:01college. Maybe we should have free
21:03college here in the US. That sounds
21:05great. Great idea, Candace. I love that
21:07idea. All right. Love it.
21:09Champion. Champion for the people, girl.
21:13Very nice. All right, return to your
21:15seat. Surrounded is now a podcast
21:19available wherever you listen. Search
21:21Surrounded, plug in, and stay part of
21:23the conversation. Anywhere, anytime.
21:29[Music]
21:31My second claim is that no career will
21:33give women as much joy and fulfillment
21:35as raising children.
21:42Not today.
21:46Hi, Candace. How are you? Hi. Nice to
21:48meet you. Nice to meet you. I'm John.
21:50Um, okay. So, I feel like a lot of your
21:52arguments today are very rooted in a
21:54sort of
21:56old school perspective. I have to be
21:58honest. Like I think, and I'm not trying
22:01to be insulting whatsoever, I feel as
22:02though most people would identify that
22:04claim as pretty extreme and pretty like
22:08children are extreme. Well, no, that
22:10that women would get more happiness
22:12inherently from raising kids than having
22:14a job or deciding what they want to do
22:16with their lives. Why is that? I'm I'm
22:19just curious. Why would having children,
22:22which is just a natural biological
22:25conclusion, be something that sounds
22:26extremely I just said inherently.
22:28Inherently, that's the inherent
22:30expectation that that's better for it's
22:32inherent because it's biological. So I
22:34think when we think about things that
22:35are inherent, I think biology is a good
22:37thing to start with, right? So
22:39biologically speaking, men and women
22:40come together, they form families, and
22:42that's the reason why you're sitting
22:44here. That's the reason that I'm sitting
22:45here is because biology is inherent. So
22:48I was saying it's just it's just natural
22:51order that we're speaking about, right?
22:52Okay, let's break it down. So why do why
22:54do you believe that? Why do you believe
22:56that? Why do I believe that? Why do
22:58inherently inherently are happier? Yeah.
23:00Okay. You keep stressing this word
23:01inherent. Yeah. I think because it
23:04speaks to natural order and every piece
23:07of life I think is enriched by children.
23:09You don't think it's natural for women
23:10to get to decide what they want to do
23:11with their lives? I do not think that
23:14saying women can decide whether or not
23:17they want to go to work or have children
23:19is problematic. What I'm saying to you
23:21is that women will get the most
23:23fulfillment from having a family because
23:25it's natural. It's natural, but also
23:27children are wonderful and beautiful and
23:30spiritually divine creatures. I mean,
23:32they're just they're amazing. There's
23:33everything about having a child. It Yes,
23:35it's a lot of work is just it's
23:37beautiful. I hear that. Well, okay. What
23:39if what if there's a a little girl born
23:41and it's her dream her entire life to be
23:44an author or to be you know on TV or any
23:47of these things and having children is
23:49very expensive. It takes a lot of time.
23:51So how is it better for that like and I
23:53understand this is hypothetical but that
23:55hypothetical little girl uh to have
23:57children than to pursue these things
23:59that would make her happy as she gets I
24:00just think that what if she publishes
24:02the book and she has a child she would
24:04agree with me that the child was more
24:05fulfilling and made her happy. That's
24:07what I'm happier than the book did is
24:08what I'm saying. And I say this as a
24:10published author of a New York Times. I
24:12I would choose my children over my
24:14best-selling book. And I was that little
24:16girl who had a dream that like, oh, it
24:18would be really great if I could share
24:20my thoughts and ideas in a book. But it
24:23is utteranity for me to reflect on that
24:27and say that I would have rather
24:28published Blackout than to have my three
24:30children. But why is it rather? You see
24:31what I'm saying? It's it's it's not
24:33rather. I'm just saying that's your
24:35claim is that it's better. be more
24:37fulfilled. Yes. So rather well if it's
24:40an either or if you're saying it's an
24:41either or I'm just saying that if these
24:43two things are happening have happened
24:44in your life the thing that will bring
24:46you more spiritual fulfillment will be
24:48children. And so women who are
24:50neglecting that who are neglecting the
24:52pathway to you know strive toward family
24:55because they think their career is going
24:57to hug them at night or they think that
24:58when they're on their deathbed their
24:59career is going to come up next to them
25:01and say you were so great to me. I think
25:04that they have stepped into a delusion
25:06and I'm hopeful that they wake up from
25:08it before it's too late. All right,
25:09pause. Sorry, you've been voted out by
25:11the majority. Please return to your
25:12seat.
25:22Hi. Nice to meet Nice to meet you. Okay,
25:25so currently women make up about 47% of
25:28the workforce. If this were the case and
25:30that women were just inherently unhappy
25:32or unfulfilled working and would just
25:34prefer to be at home, why don't they?
25:37Because it's we've made that due to
25:40prior feminist waves nearly impossible
25:43because now which I believe the reason
25:45that the government wanted women to
25:47enter the workforce was because it gave
25:48them an opportunity to tax a household
25:50twice. And so this goes back to what I
25:52was saying is that there's a lot of
25:54financial pressure that is being exerted
25:56on young women to enter the workforce
25:58and they do so blindly under this
26:00illusion that somehow entering the
26:02workforce is going to make you more
26:03fulfilled. Like getting yourself into
26:06six figures of debt going to college to
26:08then take on a career and be in debt and
26:12having to pay student loans while you
26:14make 35k is going to make you happier.
26:16And I'm saying that isn't actually true.
26:19Okay. So I hear that. At the same time,
26:21would you not agree that men and that
26:23women can both have a career and have
26:25children? I mean, you are actively doing
26:27that right now. And I want to be very
26:29clear because I am actively doing it
26:31right now. I would be someone that you
26:32would call an exception because I get to
26:33work from home. I get to wake up in the
26:35morning. I don't have a boss, right? I
26:36don't have to go into the office from
26:389:00 to 5:00. I get to then therefore
26:40spend the entire morning with my
26:42children. So you're an exception. And
26:43the 47% of women that make up our labor
26:46force are also an exception. No, the
26:48exact opposite. So, I'm trying to make
26:50it more realistic because I think it's
26:51it's really bad form when people who are
26:54able to stay at home, right, and are
26:57able to start working at, you know, 1:00
27:01p.m. as I do after being around their
27:03children. The children are running
27:04around all day will then preach to you
27:06that every woman can have this. That's
27:08that's not the reality. The reality is
27:10that the overwhelming majority of people
27:12are stuck behind a desk all day and
27:14they're not happy. They're not doing
27:15work that gratifies them at all. and at
27:17the same time they're suspending. Well,
27:20that's just what career you've chosen.
27:22But I think that the issue with work a 9
27:24to5 I think that's that's okay. Yes. But
27:26if it's the job that is making them
27:27unhappy, then maybe they should have
27:28chosen a different career path and not
27:30the structure of the career itself. But
27:32my issue with this is that not only is
27:34it claiming that women can't both be
27:35mothers and have jobs, which we know to
27:38be true because millions of women do
27:39that. My mother does that. You are
27:41actively doing it right now. But it also
27:44is qualifying what every single woman in
27:46this country wants without any clear
27:48evidence. I mean, there's 169 million
27:51women in this country over. How can you
27:54say that you know exactly what every
27:56woman secretly wants? Are you asking? I
27:58didn't. That wasn't my claim that I
27:59secretly know what every single woman
28:01wants. I'm saying that if you measure up
28:03at the end of your life, what brought
28:05you more fulfillment, your career or a
28:07child, children, raising children in
28:09your family, we will discover that and
28:11and there actually have been studies
28:13people that have gone to people on their
28:14deathbeds and the number one regret that
28:16people have was that they gave too much
28:18to their careers. And this includes men,
28:19by the way. Oh yeah, that's true. I
28:20mean, of course, human relation is going
28:22to be valued over money and profit. But
28:24at the same time, what does that even
28:25agree with my argument? You're agreeing
28:27with my argument. Humans prefer humans
28:29over a job. But that's not just singular
28:32to women. That's everyone. And my
28:34question is, what does that even have to
28:35like what is the goal of that? Should
28:37every woman quit working and just have a
28:38child? Well, I'm just trying to warn you
28:41that if you decide to suspend that
28:44pursuit of family because you think that
28:46you have to first climb the ladder, a
28:48lot of women make that mistake and they
28:50don't end up finding a partner. That's
28:51their right. It's free will. You
28:53definitely have a right to make you
28:54don't get to say what people should and
28:55shouldn't do. I didn't come I don't
28:57think my claim is this is what people
28:58should or should not do. I'm just simply
29:00stating that my claim is that you will
29:02be more fulfilled if you focus on trying
29:05you need to decide what other people are
29:06fulfilled by. Okay. I I am making my
29:09claim here that you will women are
29:11infinitely more fulfilled in the
29:12household and raising children than they
29:14are taking that 9 toive job. But you
29:16have no evidence of that. In fact, you
29:18are evidence against your own claim. I'm
29:20not evidence against my own claim. I'm
29:22saying that you're here at work right
29:23now. I'm literally I've literally said I
29:25am telling you women cannot have it all.
29:27That is an illusion and that is an
29:29illusion that is stressing women out and
29:30I think it is the reason why so many
29:32women are turning to popping pills. Why
29:33there's been such a significant more
29:35than a thousand% increase. But men can
29:37have it all. Men can be fathers and have
29:39a job but women can't do that. I don't
29:41think you can have it all. It sounds
29:42like you're devaluing women. I think
29:44that women can do everything that a man
29:45can do and men have done this
29:47historically throughout time and
29:48memoriam. I think women women is our
29:50topic debate topic today. So I mean
29:52women exist in a society with men. We
29:54are comparing women are trying to be
29:56both women and men and that is why women
29:58are unhappy today is because actually
30:00what's quite ironic about the feminist
30:02movement is that women are just trying
30:03to be people. I think women have been
30:05taught that being a woman is not enough
30:07and that you have to also aspire to be a
30:08man. And that's the irony. It's like a
30:10psychological conditioning. What
30:11feminists went out and did and said is
30:13that in order for women to have value,
30:14women need to be like men. And I'm
30:16saying that actually women and men are
30:18biologically different. There are
30:20differences in our behavior. there are
30:22differences in our desires and I think
30:24evidence of the feminist movement by the
30:26way shows us that because even when
30:27women enter into the college education
30:31space the pathways of career that we
30:34choose are different from men because
30:35we're biologically different right okay
30:37so let's say that this is true that
30:38women truly are more fulfilled at home
30:40now the average cost of raising a child
30:42a year is around $21,000 or more so my
30:46issue is are you saying that women
30:48should just suddenly stop working and
30:49now the onus is entire entirely on men.
30:53Like the society that you're pitching is
30:57not sustainable economically. It was
31:00sustained economically, but it's not
31:02right now. Pause. Naima, you've been
31:04voted out by the majority. Please return
31:06to your seat.
31:11Hi. Hi, Cassie. Nice to meet you. Nice
31:14to meet you. Um, so your claim is that
31:16women will be h happier at home. I think
31:18you're conflating though happiness with
31:20importance cuz I get what you're saying
31:21where a woman can write a book and have
31:22kids but the kids are always going to
31:24make her happier but I think it just
31:26means that kids are always going to be
31:27more important not necessarily make you
31:29happier but also piggybacking on Naima
31:32we don't live in an economy where people
31:35typically can have a one-inccome
31:36household whether it be the mom or dad
31:38that stays home. Um, and so I think, and
31:41you keep bringing up the 1950s, which
31:44cuz it was right before the I just don't
31:45know if that's the period of time that
31:47you want to go back to. Well, it's just
31:49I'm just going back to the first wave of
31:50feminism. You want to undo progress
31:52that's been done. So, I'm curious as to
31:54what decade you'd be comfortable living
31:56in, especially as a black woman. Okay.
32:00So, we're going to park aside the race
32:02politics because I want to I want to f
32:03focus on Okay. Then, as a woman, what
32:06period of time do you want to go back
32:07to? Uh just as a woman, I think that it
32:10was probably a better environment for
32:12women when we were we understood that
32:15raising our children was fulfilling. But
32:19some women still do understand that,
32:21right? And a lot of women and I'm here
32:24advocating for you to be able to live
32:26the life that you want and for other
32:28women to be able to live the lives they
32:29want. Do you have children? No. Okay.
32:31You have a career, I presume? Yeah.
32:32Okay. What What do you work? What field
32:34do you work in? I do hair. Okay.
32:36Wonderful. So I have both children and a
32:39career as somebody pointed out. And so
32:41the fact that I'm saying that you will
32:44be infinitely more fulfilled at the end
32:46of the day by raising your children than
32:49you will be if you come home and you
32:50say, "Wow, I really crushed it dying
32:52somebody's hair today." What is it
32:55exactly that makes you angry about
32:56hearing that? Like that's what I'm I'm
32:58actually trying I'm trying to get I'm
32:59trying to get to the implicit
33:01revolution. Here's the thing is that no
33:03one mentions children. No. See, no one's
33:05angry when you mention children. I get
33:08angry, I guess, when you mention that
33:09someone should have a children or you're
33:12trying to impose a lifestyle onto people
33:13that you want to live, which I think is
33:15kind of funny because as someone who's
33:17anti-feminism, you practice it more than
33:19most women do. I mean, every time you
33:21get on your podcast, every time you
33:22collect a check, you're practicing
33:24feminism. Okay. That's what you think.
33:27No, that's what it is. Because without
33:28feminism, you wouldn't be able to exist.
33:30Yeah. People keep saying I hate when
33:31people say that. It just shows that you
33:33you haven't done the research to even
33:34understand where the feminist or you
33:36don't know history which was
33:37discoverable that that's what I'm saying
33:38about you because it means that you
33:39don't understand that a bunch of
33:41government officials in the CIA funded
33:43the feminist movement. So for all of
33:45your hatred for the patriarchus so my
33:47question is is it bad that they funded
33:49it or bad that it just happened? Men
33:50wanted men wanted women to go into the
33:53workforce. the government which had a
33:55lot of men. It was being Are you talking
33:56about because World War II occurred and
33:58we had to go to factories and then when
34:00we left the factories they forced us
34:01back into the homes. That's not what I'm
34:03saying at all. So let me tell you what
34:05I'm saying and then you can respond to
34:06it.
34:08Gloria Steinum is considered to be a
34:09feminist icon, right? Because she led
34:13these protests. She also had a bunch of
34:16music festivals. She got students
34:18involved. It is just a fact that Gloria
34:21Steinum was funded by the CIA. Okay. The
34:24CIA being the maledominated CIA of the
34:2850s and the 60s funded those movements.
34:31So what what what do you think was the
34:33explicit aim? Do you think it was
34:34because the government really wanted you
34:36to be more free that they wanted to
34:38encourage women to enter? Well, I have
34:40to be honest with you, I couldn't speak
34:41on behalf of the government, you know
34:42what I mean, and what their intention.
34:44Well, I think it's important because you
34:45just said that I don't know history. And
34:46I think it's pretty important if you're
34:47going to sit across from me and say, "I
34:48don't know history that you learn a
34:49piece of history and then question." You
34:51keep bringing up men and I think it's
34:52funny cuz we should talk about men more
34:55like you brought up suicide. They're
34:56four times more likely to kill
34:57themselves which is why and while women
34:59we're twice as more often on
35:00anti-depressants, but that's cuz we go
35:02out and do what we need to do to keep
35:03coping. And we need to focus on men and
35:06the patriarchy because it's actually
35:07oppressed them just as much as women now
35:10emotionally, right? Because when we're
35:11kids, we our parents teach us how to
35:14cross the street. Look both ways so you
35:15can get the other side unharmed. When a
35:17boy comes across a feeling, and I'm
35:19using men and boys here because they're
35:20the ones suffering, women are too, but
35:22emotionally when they come across a
35:25feeling they haven't felt before, we
35:27have to teach them how to get to the
35:28other side and cope with it. Otherwise,
35:30they stay where they are. That anger and
35:32resentment builds. That's the feeling
35:34they become most comfortable with.
35:35That's the feeling they go to first in
35:37most situations. So, we need to stop
35:39telling our boys that they don't cry,
35:40cuz they do. They just do it alone and
35:43then they become even more alone.
35:53All right. Uh, nice to meet you. Okay.
35:56So, you say that women are more
35:58fulfilled at home with kids than going
36:00out into the workforce or getting
36:01educated, but that just really doesn't
36:03bear out when you look at the stats.
36:05When you look at how working mothers are
36:06way less likely to be in poverty,
36:08maternal education is the number one
36:10predictor of childhood outcomes, better
36:12scores, uh getting higher incomes in the
36:14future, fewer behavioral problems,
36:16better mental health. So, it's weird to
36:18me with and college educated women are
36:20least likely to get divorced, and
36:22they're the only women, the top 10% of
36:24women are the only women whose marriage
36:25rates are going up. So, they're getting
36:27married, they're staying married, and
36:28their kids are doing better. When you
36:30look at stay-at- home mothers, you see
36:31that they're more likely to report being
36:32depressed. they're more likely to report
36:34having um anxiety and anger and all
36:37these types of things. So, how can you
36:39say that? Seems like a woman if you want
36:40to get married and have kids, you should
36:42go to college and have a career. So, I
36:44it sounds to me like we are looking at
36:45totally different statistics because
36:46everything that you said I I've actually
36:48read the exact opposite. I'm glad we're
36:50on a fact check show with you. Exactly.
36:52It's so exciting. That's going to be
36:53amazing. Okay. Because I know, like I
36:56said, I I think what we're talking about
36:57is that there was this widespread report
36:59on female happiness. And I I know that
37:00it was it was formerly debunked and it
37:02was that's not what I'm talking about.
37:03Pew Research, University of California.
37:05In fact, working mothers today spend
37:07more time with their ch children than
37:09women did in the 1960s that were at
37:10home. Okay. Well, women that I can tell
37:12you women that are at home are obviously
37:13spending more time with their children
37:15than the people who are at work and
37:16their children are not fairing off any
37:18better and they're fairing off worse.
37:19How are you measuring their children
37:20fairing off worse? Uh how likely they
37:22are to uh higher incomes, better scores,
37:25fewer health problems, fewer behavioral
37:27issues, and better mental. So the the
37:29just to get back to the claim that I'm
37:31making here is that it is obvious that
37:33women who have children are going to be
37:35more fulfilled. How is that obvious?
37:37Because you said so.
37:40No, it's not obvious because I said so.
37:42It's because when you look at all the
37:44statistics in terms of women who are
37:45choosing not to have families, they are,
37:47as the person who just sat here before
37:49you mentioned, they are suffering from
37:51more depression. They're suffering from
37:53more anxiety. And I and that's not true.
37:55Okay, it is true. It is actually true
37:57that women who are choosing their
37:58careers overstarting families are
38:00finding themselves leaning more onto on
38:03to medicines like Xanax, anxietyinducing
38:06medicines and depression because they
38:08suspended that time frame where women
38:10really should be looking to find a
38:11partner and to start a family because
38:12they were instead pursuing their
38:14careers. There has been a there it has
38:16been it is a dishonest it is is totally
38:18a dishonest narrative that men and women
38:20want the same things out of life. We
38:22don't we absolutely do not want the same
38:23things out of life. In fact, we don't
38:24even measure we don't even measure
38:26success the same. Men and women don't
38:28even measure success the same. So, but
38:30but tell me how the women who are
38:32working and getting educated, why are
38:34they fairing off better in all of these?
38:36I am telling you that I do not believe
38:38they are fairing off better in all of
38:39these men. I do not because because of
38:42what? I am telling you that we are
38:44looking at totally opposite statistics.
38:45Like, so you're sitting here telling me
38:47that the statistics show that women who
38:48are working are producing better
38:50children. But I am saying that women
38:51that grow up in a a two family home
38:53where the mother stays at home are
38:54fairing off better than the the children
38:56who are being raised in an environment
38:58where parents where both of the parents
39:00are away from the home. I do get to work
39:02from home. No, but you watch your show.
39:05You talk about all the nannies you hire
39:06and it's so hard to find a talked about
39:09all of the nannies I hire. But you have
39:11I spoke about how difficult it was to
39:13find a babysitter who knew how to cook a
39:15meal and that's because you don't need a
39:17babysitter. You're already you could
39:18retire right now. Let people respond to
39:20you when they're when they're speaking.
39:21You don't want to to respond to you when
39:24No, you don't want to. You want to be
39:26working, which is great. You're telling
39:27me what I want now and then accusing me
39:29of telling you, wait, are you you don't
39:30want to work? Can you just let me
39:31finish? Cuz you've said so many words
39:33that you just what you're trying to do
39:34here like your argument style is I'm
39:36going to say so much and not let her get
39:37a word in and then walk away and feel
39:38like I've won. We're not having a
39:40conversation because you've not let me
39:41respond to each one of your points.
39:43Okay. What I am saying to you, first to
39:45answer what you just said, which was a
39:46lie. What I spoke to about on the
39:48weekends is that it's been increasingly
39:50difficult to find a 25-year-old who even
39:54knows how to make box macaroni and
39:55cheese, right? It's and that's crazy.
39:57That's and that is in large part due to
39:59feminism. Women don't even focus. Women
40:01don't even focus. Like there's this
40:02there's this there's this idea that
40:04women shouldn't be cooking. Like there's
40:06something fundamentally wrong with women
40:07even learning how to cook. You know what
40:08I mean? You're spending as much time
40:09with your children as you possibly can
40:11because that's the way to get the most
40:12fulfillment. No. And that's what I'm
40:13trying to say. I am speaking to you as
40:15Stop. Okay. Could you please let
40:17somebody get in the word edgewise?
40:20You're not. You actually have not let
40:22anybody finish. And like I said, it's
40:24it's no one benefits when you're just
40:26speaking over me and not allowing me to
40:28respond. All you're proving is that you
40:30have an attitude and you believe in
40:31feminism, but you're not see that's what
40:33I'm saying. You just have an attitude
40:34and it's not it's not true. It's
40:36performative. Address my point. I will
40:38be quiet if you address my point. Does
40:40anybody actually feel here that I am
40:42being allowed to address any of her
40:43points when she just keeps running over
40:45me? Like you I'm literally trying to
40:47answer to your first point of you saying
40:49that I don't stay at home. Yeah, really
40:53weird. Fair point. Obviously, I get that
40:56you're all anti-Canis and pro- feminist,
40:58but also it's not productive if you're
40:59not actually Okay, address the point.
41:01You spend more time saying that I'm not
41:02addressing that you you don't have a
41:04chance to talk when you the whole time
41:05you could have addressed the point. You
41:06could have talked. I just want you to
41:08know that you're not coming across as
41:09somebody who wants to actually have a
41:11conversation. So, to get back to the
41:13claim because I don't even know where
41:14you're at. You're not talking. You're
41:15saying that I said stuff on my podcast.
41:16I'll go wherever you want to go. I'll go
41:17wherever. So, do you want to start with
41:19me working at home? Cuz I work at home.
41:21You just said something about me
41:22working. You travel all around the
41:23world. I you you do speeches and I love
41:26that. I love how ambitious you are.
41:28That's a really great trait. And if you
41:29were truly said that you would be more
41:31fulfilled. Now, one thing you do find is
41:32women, they don't want to stay at home
41:34when you pull them. They just want
41:35flexible working hours and flexible
41:36working conditions like you have. And I
41:38think we should all advocate for that.
41:40It's not one or the other. But when you
41:41sit here and you go, you'll be more
41:42fulfilled doing this and spend all your
41:44time doing that. We would love for you
41:45to leave the public eye and go focus on
41:47what makes you fulfilled. Okay.
41:53Hey, before we go any further, we want
41:55to take a moment to say thanks so much
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42:51us on this episode. Now, let's get into
42:53it. My next claim is that we live under
42:55a matriarchy, not a patriarchy.
43:02Hi. Hello. Nice to meet It's a pleasure
43:05to meet you. I'm Princeella the Queen
43:06Maker. I love that. So, you say we live
43:09in a matriarchy. Can you give me the
43:12definition of patriarchy? Yes. Well, the
43:14patriarchy is the idea that the the the
43:17system our system in America is being
43:18run by men and that women are having to
43:21exist under a system that immediately
43:23disadvantages them because men are
43:25behind it. And I disagree with that
43:27pointedly. I think actually we're living
43:29in a society where people are being very
43:31much influenced socially and politically
43:34by women. Okay. So the denotative
43:37definition of patriarchy is father rule
43:40and where positions of government are
43:43held majority major majorly by men where
43:47women are largely largely excluded. So
43:50125 House of Representatives are female
43:54and that's only about 25%. Right? And
43:57only about 28% make up Senate and 3.3%
44:01of Congress up until this date have ever
44:03been women. So by denotative definition,
44:05we literally live in a patriarchy. Yes.
44:08So I disagree with that. So I think what
44:09this gets to, which is actually an
44:11important part of the conversation, is
44:12that people always think that where
44:14there is disparity, there's somehow
44:15inequality. And I actually reject that
44:17entirely. I think it's just a difference
44:19in what we're interested in. I think
44:20we're biologically wired. We're
44:22interested in different careers. And
44:24just because we looked if we looked in
44:26the fashion industry and said, "Oh,
44:27well, it's being dominated by women." It
44:29wouldn't mean that, okay, well, that
44:30means that the fashion industry is a
44:32matriarchy and men have no sense. It
44:34just means have no ability to
44:36communicate how they feel in the fashion
44:37industry. I literally think that those
44:39numbers show that we're just
44:40biologically different. So, I actually
44:43think politically women have shown that
44:46they have a lot more power than men
44:48have. And I'm talking about just in
44:50terms of political movements. The most
44:51recent I can think of is the Me Too
44:53movement. Right? If a bunch of women get
44:55together and complain about a man and
44:58refer to the patriarchy and scream,
45:00generally speaking, and let me know if
45:01you agree, the media will celebrate
45:04that. If a bunch of men got together and
45:06were shrieking and speaking about women,
45:08generally speaking, the media would call
45:11them all white supremacists and say that
45:13we had a misogyny problem and that
45:15things were really wrong in society.
45:16Women are allowed to be more vocal in
45:18general about problems are. Well, let me
45:20let me speak to that. When we're talking
45:22about government and media, these are
45:24two different things. So under the
45:26denotative definition of a patriarchy by
45:30the percentages that are occupied in the
45:33government which is majority male
45:36defines us as a patriarchy. Now what it
45:39comes to for capitalism for marketing
45:42purposes and control for capital and
45:45revenue that is a totally different
45:47conversation. But who's making the laws?
45:49I don't think that women are the ones
45:51voting to have their reproductive rights
45:54taken away where you have rape, incest,
45:58and all of these things excluded to
45:59force women to be able to have I don't
46:01think women in government would largely
46:04vote against their own interests because
46:06it's majority male patriarchy. Okay. I
46:09think love that point. Are women allowed
46:11to vote? Oh, of course they are. Who's
46:13voting those that patriarchy? And then
46:15out of curiosity, no, I totally agree.
46:17And and and you want to know why?
46:18Because there are so many women who
46:21think like you. You submit to the idea
46:23of men ruling everything and your
46:26ideology is spread across a lot of women
46:29who also falsely believe to vote against
46:32their own interests just to complain
46:34about it in the end. You know, you
46:36earlier you said that, you know, women
46:38would be much more happier working uh at
46:42home. But don't you agree that it's
46:46human nature to want things that you
46:48don't have? So during the 1950s, which
46:52is something that you constantly bring
46:53up, you know, it wasn't until 1994 that
46:56it was legally illegal to beat your
46:59wife. And so what we're dealing with is
47:02people wanting something and then when
47:04they get it, they're not happy with it
47:06and then they have to revoke that idea
47:09for something else. And so what you're
47:11saying is that women vote for these
47:14things because they have the same
47:15mentality as you. Okay. So you're
47:18acknowledging that women have the
47:19freedom to vote. Yes. And you're saying
47:20that women are still existing mentally
47:24even with the freedom to vote. Correct.
47:25They are voting men in because we are
47:27still victims of No, I don't believe in
47:30victimhood. I believe in lack of
47:31education and lack of knowledge. Because
47:33one of the things that you also said, do
47:35you think that it could just be that
47:35more men are running for positions of
47:37office? No, not necessarily. Because
47:40remember the United States, the average
47:42reading comprehension of people in the
47:43United States is sixth grade. So we're
47:45not dealing with educated people. Lack
47:48of education is the cause for what we
47:50see in the world. And if we educate the
47:53women better because a nation can rise
47:56no higher than this woman. And if she
47:57reading and comprehending at a sixth
47:59grade level and popping out a lot of
48:01kids, you know, cuz the brokeest people
48:02in the world pop out the most kids. So
48:05if we have those people voting, of
48:07course they're going to vote against
48:08their interest because they voting for
48:10some utopian society that will never
48:12exist. Okay. So that's that's why you
48:14think Camala lost. This ain't even about
48:16Kamala. You're talking about women. No,
48:19but we had an opportunity. Yeah. Go
48:20ahead. We had a male running and we had
48:22a female running and it we actually
48:25showed that Trump increased the amount
48:27of women who voted for him. Right. So
48:29I'm I'm asking you, do you believe that
48:32the reason that happened was because
48:34women became less educated during that
48:36time? They've always been less educated.
48:38Do you know that UNESCO says that the
48:41that 2/3 of the 700 the 7.7 million
48:45illiterate adults is women
48:47illiterate and we have sixth grade
48:50educated people voting. And guess who
48:53that guess the dominant population? It's
48:55white women. And so guess what? Now you
48:57have to add a race element into that
48:59which you already know exists because we
49:02as black folks we ain't the dominant
49:04people voting people in. Okay. So now
49:06when we have to go into white supremacy
49:10and feminism now you have to look at the
49:13mind of the people who actually have
49:16economic success and what they're voting
49:18for because classism actually matters as
49:21well. So I'm sorry but a lot of people
49:24vote based on their feelings and not
49:25based on policy. Pause, guys. Yes.
49:27Sorry, you've been voted out by the
49:28majority. Please return to Thank you for
49:31the respectable conversation.
49:37[Applause]
49:38Hi. Hi. How are you? Great to meet you.
49:41I'm doing well. Nice to meet you. So, I
49:43view this argument as um a matter of
49:45fact, right? This is a descriptive claim
49:47about the uh culture reality we live in
49:50and uh patriarchy being uh a system in
49:53which men hold the predominance of power
49:55in both political economic and social uh
49:58methods of organizations. So S&P 500
50:01companies 90% of CEOs are men board
50:04members 70% of CEOs are men 70% of
50:07congressional members are men. Now, you
50:09may provide some sort of naturalistic
50:11argument to why that is, but what you're
50:13essentially arguing then is that there's
50:14a natural patriarchy, which I think
50:17feminists would all disagree with. We
50:19think that there's um a clear uh social
50:22pressure as to why this is. And part of
50:24the evidence for that is since
50:27feminism's um you know, arise within our
50:29our public culture, we've now seen an
50:31explosion of women entering these
50:33fields, but we have a long way to go.
50:35But fundamentally, the claim regarding
50:37patriarchy or matriarchy, we are so much
50:40closer to where we were just a few
50:42decades ago or several a couple
50:44generations ago where women couldn't
50:45hold a credit card than a system where
50:47men can't hold a credit card. We're
50:49still much closer to that um form of
50:51society. Why would you say that we're
50:52closer to that? What do you mean by
50:54that? Did you just qualify that? Because
50:55in terms of economic power, so for
50:58example, house household wealth, women
51:00own 55 cents to every dollar a man owns.
51:03Who who controls household spending
51:05though? You talk about how the money's
51:07made in America. How is it being spent?
51:09Who's So, it's primarily spent by women
51:12as you've noted, but then the money
51:13where the profit's being generated. It's
51:15being generated by women. Would you
51:16rather be the people that are spending
51:17and deciding on what the money is being
51:18spent on or would you rather be the
51:20person that's just working to to earn
51:22it? You will CEOs and board members
51:24aren't working. They own the shares and
51:26they're they're making the profit. When
51:27you own it, you
51:30making you would Yeah. You would much in
51:32a capitalist system by definition you
51:34would much rather be making the profit
51:36than than spending. I would much rather
51:38be spending your money than having to
51:40work for your money. Just so you just so
51:41we are so totally clear here. I would
51:42much rather spend your money and have to
51:44go out and earn your money. Well, you're
51:46you're talking about wage laborers in
51:48terms of working. But in terms of No,
51:49I'm talking about spending power, right?
51:51Yeah. Well, sure. But that matters. If
51:5385% of 85 cents of every dollar how
51:56that's being spent is being determined
51:57by women, that's a that's power that we
52:00can't say spending power is not power.
52:01Why why why do you think that is the
52:03case? It's because women are often
52:05relegated to the role of doing grocery
52:07shopping etc. because for for millennia
52:09now uh or from millennia up until now uh
52:13women were unable to enter the workforce
52:16and have economic political. Let's get
52:19into the reasons cuz you brought up
52:20something that men are the people that
52:22are at the top of these companies, these
52:23these Fortune 500 companies and
52:25political power. You're absolutely
52:26right. Why is that? It's it's it's
52:28primarily because we the women haven't
52:30broken the ceiling quite yet in terms of
52:32uh meeting uh men in terms of uh parody
52:35with with these sorts of powers. But
52:37what we've seen with the explosion of
52:38feminism is that women have actually
52:41begun to enter uh uh these companies
52:44have uh you know risen into both
52:46political and economic positions of
52:47power. But that continues to grow
52:50yearbyear which shows that these social
52:52pressures are actually breaking apart as
52:54soon as feminism comes into play. What
52:57that shows that women and men have
52:59different interests and I think this
53:00gets into what I was saying that just
53:02because you see a disparity does not
53:04mean that it's not just a disparity in
53:05what our interests are. that's what's
53:06being represented. I don't know why
53:08there has been this idea that women
53:10should want to aspire to work 80 hours a
53:13week in order to be on par with men. Do
53:16you think that interests are innate or
53:17do you think that interests are inate?
53:19So why is it then that for example in
53:21the 1980s only a quarter of college
53:23graduates were women where now majority
53:25of college graduates are women. That
53:27shows that because of the way that
53:28social pressures have actually changed,
53:30women's interests are actually now
53:31changing too. a majority I think or at
53:33least half of uh law school graduates
53:36are now women. It used to be the case in
53:38for example a few hundred years ago that
53:40a lot of uh primary philosophers like
53:42Emanuel Khan Hegel didn't even believe
53:44women could uh be reasonable. Now here
53:46you are today doing a debate with me
53:48where we're using logic and reason to
53:50get to the and nobody here would dismiss
53:52the claim that you can't be rational or
53:54logical or be for example a great lawyer
53:57because you're a woman. Right. So I I
54:00totally agree with you that women but I
54:02think they have actually entered into
54:03the workforce. I mean entered into
54:04college under this external pressure of
54:06feeling that if you don't go to college
54:08you're going to be a failure. So you
54:09admit that pressures are a part of the
54:11way interests work. Yes. But we're
54:12disagreeing on where the pressure is
54:13coming from. Like I think that now the
54:15pressure is that if a woman doesn't
54:16enter the force it's there's there's no
54:18longer this idea that okay we're going
54:19to come together as a family whereas
54:21there was this reality that there was
54:23this understanding that you would have a
54:24partner. People were getting married
54:25when they were 18 19 years old. our
54:27grandparents. Now it's because of
54:30feminism. And I'm saying this is
54:31actually this is the downside of
54:32feminism. Women no longer have that
54:35sense. They think that if you they have
54:37to be pressured to go take out a loan to
54:39go to college and then you have the
54:40pressure to get Well, they have the same
54:42pressures as men because women no longer
54:44rely on for an income. Pause. You've
54:46been voted out by the majority. Please.
54:47I did like our conversation. Might have
54:49to come back to you.
54:55Hi guys. Hi. Owens. I'm Paris. Very nice
54:58to meet you. Nice to meet you. So, can I
55:00explain to you why I believe we live in
55:02a patriarchy and why I believe we live
55:03in a society is preferential to men. So,
55:05I'm going to use the example of male
55:06violence. There's a lot of places I can
55:08look, but we're going to talk about
55:08that. 81% of women have been sexually
55:11assaulted. One in six have been raped.
55:13One in four women are the victims of
55:14domestic violence. 98% of perpetrators
55:17of rape and sexual assault are men. 95%
55:19of perpetrators of domestic violence are
55:21men. um actually uh in regards to human
55:24trafficking, 70% of human trafficking
55:25victims are women. So we're seeing a
55:27very clear issue of men being violent
55:29towards women. And then when we look at
55:30the way that our government handles
55:31that, one out of three rapes go reported
55:34and then out of the ones that go
55:35reported, 7% end in jail time. So if
55:38we're looking at that and we're looking
55:39at the fact that our government doesn't
55:40really get that worried about male
55:41violence.
55:43Well, so what I would say is going back
55:45to biological differences, men are
55:48naturally inclined more towards
55:50aggression than women are. So I I am not
55:52shocked by you telling me it's even if
55:54you looked at, like I said, male-on-male
55:55crime, you would see that there are more
55:57instances instances of men killing other
55:59men than there are instances of women
56:01killing other women. And that I think
56:02actually speaks to our biological
56:03differences, which is actually at the
56:05root of everything that I believe about
56:06feminism being a lie, is because they're
56:08trying to program people to believe that
56:10men and women are the same. Now, I don't
56:12think that pointing to the fact that men
56:14are more aggressive than women, which is
56:17a point that you and I 1,000% agree on,
56:20whether or not that manifests in the
56:22very wrong way, uh, men harming men,
56:25other men, which I think they do more
56:26probably than there than they are
56:27beating women, men, men on male on male
56:29violence, um, that manifestation doesn't
56:32change the fact that men and women are
56:34just biologically hardwired different. I
56:36think it's actually proof of that. I
56:37don't think it has anything to do with
56:38the fact of of power dynamics in this
56:40country because to the contrary, if you
56:42look at prison rates and talking about
56:43how disparities don't mean anything, the
56:46majority of overwhelmed people that are
56:47in prison are male, right? There's a
56:48reason for that. So when it manifests on
56:50in a good way, that male aggression, you
56:52know, is the reason why we have men
56:54defending us, you know, men that are
56:55willing to go to war and die for our
56:57nation. So aggression being an aspect of
57:00masculinity has nothing to do with the
57:02conversation of whether or not feminism
57:05is harming women today. I mean, I agree
57:07with you that women are biologically
57:08different men. But I don't what I want
57:10you to connect it to is I guess power
57:13because what I'm talking about when I
57:15say that we're existing under a
57:16matriarchy is that I believe that the
57:18social pressures politically and
57:21socially that are coming and even within
57:23our music if we talk about Hollywood
57:24it's very much has nothing like just
57:28because like who was on the top music
57:29charts or whatever are women. Okay, how
57:31many women have paid maternity leave?
57:33That's not like how how are how are
57:34things panning out in the family courts?
57:35Why are abusive men having access to
57:37their children? Like why are women
57:38making less than men? Like what I mean
57:40none of that means anything to me. So
57:42that gap obviously I'm sure you've
57:43recognized the gender gap has been
57:45debunked so many times it's almost
57:46foolish to debunk it again. Well, you
57:48could say yeah that most women will go
57:49into jobs where they're making less. But
57:51then it does answer the question of why
57:52do we not value women's labor? It's it's
57:53not that's not valuing women's labor.
57:55It's just a reality that if you are
57:57going to be a person that aspires to
57:58become a brain surgeon, you are going to
58:00make more money than a person that
58:02aspires to do something that's, you
58:04know, like in the household. Can we go
58:07back to the Bill Bian's question? Yes.
58:09Why does our country not persecute men
58:11then who are rapists? Well, the majority
58:13of people who are in prison are men. So,
58:15they I I I don't know what you mean that
58:18we don't prosecute men that are rapists.
58:20We even prosecute people. 7% go to jail.
58:22Only 7% go to jail. I don't know what
58:24that has to do with the question of
58:25whether or not we're living in a
58:26matriarchy or a patriarchy. Our
58:28government is preferential to men.
58:31You're saying that they only like to
58:32arrest men when they kill someone, but
58:34they they are our government is is
58:36awarding men for raping women. I don't
58:37understand what you're They don't care.
58:40Rape is effectively legal. You can
58:41literally rape a woman and you have a
58:43very low likelihood of actually going to
58:44jail as a man. Rape is effectively
58:46legal. It's effectively legal. Well, how
58:48many men are actually going to I
58:50actually agree with you that in terms of
58:52sex crimes and I don't know how you're
58:53peeling out women because I would even
58:54and again this has nothing to do with
58:55our argument today but I would even say
58:57that people are not being prosecuted
59:00hard enough when we're dealing with
59:01crimes against children period. Like
59:04talking about sexual crimes not being
59:06prosecuted in this country is a whole
59:08another conversation and you will not
59:09get a disagreement with me. But I think
59:10that it's wrong to say that it's somehow
59:12attached to being a woman when you know
59:14there are so many children that are
59:15going through the exact same thing. I
59:16mean the light sentences that are tossed
59:18out for pedophiles. It's completely
59:19ridiculous. That's terrible. But I don't
59:21think it has anything to do with
59:22conversation that we're having right
59:23now. But I agree with that. Has
59:24everything to do with it and you're
59:25separating it to make time. Turn to your
59:28seat. I'm going to add five more minutes
59:31to this claim.
59:35[Music]
59:38Nice to meet you. Hi Adam. Nice to meet
59:40you. So your claim is just to be clear
59:42that we live in a matriarchy, right? I
59:44think even you'd agree that on a global
59:46level that's obviously ridiculous when
59:48there are countries where people
59:49literally are honor killed for like
59:50Instagram posts. But even if we're
59:51talking about just the US, right, we
59:53don't have paid maternity leave.
59:55Abortion is illegal in over a dozen
59:56different states. And as someone earlier
59:58was mentioning, women are overwhelmingly
1:00:00the victims of sexual violence and
1:00:02domestic abuse. So that doesn't seem
1:00:04like a very well-designed matriarchy
1:00:05where women are victims or, you know,
1:00:07lacking power in so many different
1:00:09realms of society on like a structural
1:00:10level. I just do not think that women
1:00:12are lacking power on a structural level
1:00:14because they can't which they can by the
1:00:16way abort their children. Is that like
1:00:18one of your components is that there's
1:00:19many states where abortion is illegal.
1:00:20Do you dispute that? Uh I am going to
1:00:23dispute that having a child is somehow
1:00:25something that restricts women in any
1:00:26capacity. Like you're saying what about
1:00:27the ability to decide what you do with
1:00:29your own body? I don't believe that it's
1:00:30I don't believe that murder is something
1:00:32that you should be allowed to and murder
1:00:34is the legal is actually what you're
1:00:35doing to somebody else's body. So I'm
1:00:37pro-life. So that so the the argument
1:00:39that well women will only be free if
1:00:42they're able to you know kill off their
1:00:44own offspring to me is a really
1:00:46extremely offcolored um well I guess if
1:00:49you frame it that way everyone kind of
1:00:50has to agree with you but when we're
1:00:51talking about abortion when 99% take
1:00:53place in the first few weeks when you
1:00:55know there's no phalamus there's no
1:00:57cortex there's no capacity for
1:00:58consciousness in the fetus that's
1:00:59developing saying that that fetus that
1:01:02has no capacity to be conscious aware
1:01:03anything else should have the same right
1:01:05same bodily autonomy as a And that is an
1:01:08obvious I mean you're you're making my
1:01:09point for me that you're actually making
1:01:10a point that people who are you know are
1:01:13born with tremendous disabilities should
1:01:15just be killed because of cognitive
1:01:16functions and I don't remember saying
1:01:17that. When did I say that? The best
1:01:20argument which again this this is sid
1:01:21track
1:01:23kill people with disability. Well I'm
1:01:24saying that if you're saying no I am
1:01:26saying that if you're saying that it's
1:01:27cognitive ability and at what stage the
1:01:28ability to be conscious and just just so
1:01:30we're clear disabled people are
1:01:31conscious they're they're aware. Okay.
1:01:33Um so the best argument that it is a
1:01:35life is the fact that you have to kill
1:01:36it. You have to have a procedure to kill
1:01:38it, right? So you have to intervene on
1:01:39the develop
1:01:42a developing life. If you have to go
1:01:44into your body and murder it, then it's
1:01:46disappearing that there's living human
1:01:47cells in a so we could we can just tack
1:01:50that off because we just have a
1:01:51fundamental disagreement on what we can
1:01:53talk about paid maternity leave. People
1:01:54have been talking a lot about whether
1:01:56you have to be a mother, you have to
1:01:57work. A lot of women have to pick one or
1:01:59the other because in many cases if you
1:02:01want to have a child first of all
1:02:02there's a big gap in your resume so
1:02:04getting a job after that might be super
1:02:05difficult and then secondly even in the
1:02:07process of having that child being
1:02:09pregnant especially in the third
1:02:10trimester and then raising the child
1:02:11where the you know the vast majority of
1:02:13the burden typically is on the mother uh
1:02:15the the workplace and our system of our
1:02:18economy is not tailored to make that
1:02:20easy for them. I actually totally agree
1:02:22with you and this is this gets into this
1:02:24I don't no actually I'm agreeing with
1:02:26you that this pressure that you're
1:02:27describing exists for women and I'm
1:02:29saying that it exists for women because
1:02:30of the feminists that came before who
1:02:32argued for women to enter the workplace.
1:02:34So what you're saying is the solution
1:02:37didn't work and it actually produced
1:02:38more problems and now we have more
1:02:40problems and we need more governance to
1:02:42be able to tackle these problems. So
1:02:44you're like and a system that's forcing
1:02:45women to make certain decisions. I just
1:02:47wouldn't call that feminist forcing
1:02:48women to make women should have the
1:02:50option to choose. Do I want to be a stay
1:02:51at home mom? Do I want to work? Do I
1:02:52have some mix of both? That's the entire
1:02:54point here. But you are also making an
1:02:56argument that if you are a woman who
1:02:57does run a business and does have
1:02:59employees that they should be forced to
1:03:00pay them maternity leave. Uh sure. Yeah.
1:03:03Okay. So under let me that's like saying
1:03:05taxes are forced. Yeah. There's certain
1:03:06things the government does to regulate
1:03:07our economy to ensure equality and
1:03:09justice and better outcomes. Okay. But
1:03:11just so you know, when you do that like
1:03:13to a small business owner developed
1:03:14country, so what you what you are
1:03:16arguing for is supporting big
1:03:18corporations and taking up the little
1:03:19guys because I'm arguing for supporting
1:03:21people that want to be mothers and also
1:03:22work at the same time. The mechanism we
1:03:24do that way that can be subsidies,
1:03:26taxes, you guys can't just keep you
1:03:28can't say that we can't have the
1:03:29economic we can't get down to the
1:03:30economics of what it actually implies,
1:03:32right? I have an economics and I can
1:03:34tell you if there's a small business
1:03:35that can't afford to pay maternity
1:03:36leave, the government might probably
1:03:37subsidize them and help cover the cost.
1:03:39the where is the government getting
1:03:40money from? This is like this is tax
1:03:41revenue. I mean, right. Exactly. So,
1:03:43from us. So, from us, just to be clear,
1:03:45from us. And this is the thing that that
1:03:46gets me about all of these debates. The
1:03:48magic solution that everybody has is
1:03:50that well, we just need to tax. Every
1:03:51other developed country has paid, but
1:03:53it's not magic as in like the money. The
1:03:56money is coming from you. It's coming
1:03:57from us. So, you're you're sitting here.
1:03:58That's how taxes work. We should be
1:04:00raising taxes. Okay? And this is the
1:04:02entire this is the entire problem is
1:04:04that the government is already taxing
1:04:06homes times two. And people are already
1:04:08struggling with what's being taken out
1:04:09of their taxes. Taxing capital gains
1:04:11properly or corporate profits properly.
1:04:12You have something that that there's a
1:04:14reason that we should be taxing more
1:04:15here there.
1:04:17Don't you guys want to maybe bring in
1:04:20more revenue to help women be mothers?
1:04:21What I'm saying is that you are just
1:04:23creating a cyclical argument. You're
1:04:24basically saying that women want to be
1:04:25able to have it all. Women cannot have
1:04:27it all because the government choice to
1:04:29do what they'd like. Okay. But you're
1:04:30saying women should be have the choice
1:04:32to have it all. Okay. So you're saying
1:04:33that's a really interesting way of
1:04:34putting like what you're do you have it
1:04:36all? right now where you're working and
1:04:37you're also a mother. Is that having it
1:04:39all? I I'm saying that it's not possible
1:04:40for women to have it all. It isn't
1:04:42possible and that's one of the things
1:04:43whatever that is is what I would want
1:04:45other women to have as well, which is
1:04:46the flexibility to work a job and also
1:04:49raise kids if they'd like. No, but that
1:04:50but that's exactly you guys keep arguing
1:04:52that what people want is more
1:04:53flexibility. So you're acknowledging
1:04:54that right now under with feminism on
1:04:58fire, we are agreeing women in are going
1:05:00into the workforce like I'm I'm just
1:05:01kind of using a hyperbolic expression
1:05:03like feminism is everywhere. We are
1:05:05arguing that women need to have more
1:05:06opportunities. Women need to have more
1:05:08rights. They've taken that. Now you have
1:05:09the majority of people that are
1:05:10graduating with college degrees are in
1:05:12fact women. Uh men are committing
1:05:14suicide at a higher rate than women.
1:05:15We're looking around the world. Feminism
1:05:16also would push for like increased
1:05:17awareness of men's mental health. So
1:05:19that's that's fine. Great. You love
1:05:20feminism. That's great. We already know
1:05:22that we most Americans agree with me by
1:05:24the way. Like women should have paid
1:05:25maternity culture. If you go issue by
1:05:27issue and by values, they might not
1:05:29associate with the term feminism because
1:05:31people like you have made it toxic. But
1:05:32the actual value feminism will move the
1:05:35goalost and then when they begin taxing
1:05:38so that we can account for paid
1:05:40maternity leave for three months which
1:05:41basically means a small business owner
1:05:43has to not have an employee while having
1:05:45to pay months and months and months like
1:05:47the person's not there. They're not
1:05:48actually small business doesn't have the
1:05:50revenue to cover paid maternity leave.
1:05:51The government would probably subsidize
1:05:52them to make up the cost. No, I actually
1:05:54think that the way things were made more
1:05:56sense where we had an environment where
1:05:59you could afford to take care of
1:06:00children with just one person bringing
1:06:03in income in the house. Is that possible
1:06:05in the current environment? You can
1:06:06obviously when things are going to get
1:06:07way more expensive with these tariffs as
1:06:09well like it's not going to be easy to
1:06:10afford anything in the coming years. Is
1:06:11it going to happen overnight? No. But I
1:06:13think we need to be realistic about the
1:06:15fact that the first thing didn't work,
1:06:16right? The entire argument, the first
1:06:18thing was women entering the workforce
1:06:20is going to make everybody happier and
1:06:21richer. That was the that women having
1:06:23the choice to enter the workforce is
1:06:25better than them being forced to not do
1:06:27that. That's the argument. Okay, that
1:06:28actually is not the argument at all. The
1:06:30argument was that women would become and
1:06:32I'm talking about what the feminists got
1:06:33ahead of and this is why like this
1:06:35imaginary Twitter feminist, but like
1:06:37right now you're talking to me and
1:06:38that's not the argument. I'm not
1:06:39actually debating an imaginary Twitter
1:06:40feminist. I'm speaking to you and I have
1:06:42no idea why you're you're becoming
1:06:43increasingly more rude when I'm just
1:06:45rebutting your point that you're No,
1:06:46you're not responding to my point. I am
1:06:47responding to your point. I'm saying
1:06:49that you're creating a cyclical argument
1:06:50where you keep saying that the thing
1:06:51that you just did that you said was
1:06:53going to be enough. What we actually
1:06:55need is for women to just enter the
1:06:56workforce. Oh, women are in the
1:06:57workforce and actually not enough. I'm
1:06:58saying we don't have enough because we
1:06:59don't have enough. And I'm telling you
1:07:00that you're also not going to have
1:07:01enough because you're going to then get
1:07:02be complaining when you get that paid
1:07:04maternity leave because Okay. Well, they
1:07:07are arguing for family paid leave. So
1:07:09that's even better. Yeah. Okay. So you
1:07:11you might get Do you think fathers
1:07:12should also be around to help raise
1:07:13children? I think who's going to work if
1:07:15everybody goes home every time a child
1:07:17is born? have a kid at the same time.
1:07:18Nice. Pause. All right. Everyone will
1:07:21have a male partner.
1:07:23Nice talking to you as well. My final
1:07:25claim is that feminism has made things
1:07:27easier for men.
1:07:31[Music]
1:07:33Hi. Hi. I'm Jenny. Nice to meet you.
1:07:35Nice to meet you. You said that feminism
1:07:37is easier for men or is It's made
1:07:40things, I think, easier in society for
1:07:42men. Yeah. Now men don't have to commit
1:07:44and they're being offered sex from women
1:07:47for free. So they they have to actually
1:07:49effectively do less um and be motivated
1:07:51less because feminism has kind of
1:07:53insisted on this culture of sex and
1:07:55hooking up. And I think that that's has
1:07:57been a net negative for women. On good
1:08:00faith, I just want to say I think you're
1:08:02approaching this with like the best
1:08:04interest for women. Like you think that
1:08:05is negative for women and harmful. And I
1:08:08think in some aspects we can agree to
1:08:09that. Um, I do think that there are some
1:08:11aspects of sex work or only fans or
1:08:14whatnot that maybe are definitely the
1:08:17huge consumers of, but if we are so
1:08:20concerned with women putting that out
1:08:21for free, um, it's not, it's charged,
1:08:23right? They're making money off of it.
1:08:25Then why are we not putting the onus
1:08:27more on men for being the one that is in
1:08:30control of that demand, right? So we can
1:08:32take away the supply or, you know,
1:08:34condemn it all we want. But if there's
1:08:37no onus on men to be the consumers of
1:08:40said products, then wouldn't you think
1:08:42that would solve the issue that you're
1:08:44bringing up? Yeah, I actually agree with
1:08:45you on that and and I really get to
1:08:47that. I want to be very clear. When I
1:08:49say that I'm anti-feminist, this does
1:08:51not mean that I do not also criticize
1:08:53men. I think that's something that
1:08:54people get very wrong. Okay. 1,000%
1:08:57agree. I believe the problem was seated
1:09:00by the feminist movement. I think the
1:09:01sex revolution and telling women I mean
1:09:04literally these people were protesting.
1:09:05They didn't have their shirts on and
1:09:06this used to be just your grandparents
1:09:08couldn't even imagine this like women
1:09:10walking down the street and having their
1:09:11boobs out and their butts out and
1:09:12Instagram. Um and it created an
1:09:15environment where men then had to work
1:09:17harder uh for a woman's affection for a
1:09:19woman to take her clothes off. Sex
1:09:21education in the classroom. There's this
1:09:24huge myth that people were just doing it
1:09:26like you know oh we might as well teach
1:09:27them because the children are just doing
1:09:29it. Actually, before they introduced sex
1:09:31education, the majority of high school
1:09:32graduates were graduating with their
1:09:34virginity intact. And then within 10
1:09:35years of sex education, we saw a
1:09:37reversal. So, I'm saying feminist
1:09:39feminism actually seated the problem.
1:09:40And now the problem is bad. And it's
1:09:42it's also bad for men. It's harmful for
1:09:44men to be constantly exposed to
1:09:45pornography and soft pornography. And I
1:09:48think it actually um in many ways
1:09:50emasculates men. Okay. But I would say
1:09:52they are the main social benefactors of
1:09:55that culture because well first and
1:09:57foremost as we're talking about women
1:09:59who have to kind of pick one or the
1:10:02other or try to manage both and can we
1:10:04have it all like no you can't have it
1:10:06all. On a day where I really feel like I
1:10:08gave a little bit more to my career I
1:10:10ache because I'm I go okay but like now
1:10:12I feel like I gave didn't give the same
1:10:14amount to my children. Um and it's a
1:10:17constant push and pull and it never
1:10:18feels enough. It really doesn't feel
1:10:20enough. So like to a degree I think that
1:10:22feminism does benefit men. I think that
1:10:24it allows men to be more emotionally
1:10:25intelligent, allows them to understand
1:10:27what that looks like and also be able to
1:10:29connect with other people, right? But at
1:10:32the same time, there's so much work that
1:10:34feminism has done for women that to say
1:10:36that it benefits men more, I don't think
1:10:38is an accurate statement. For example,
1:10:40Title 9 has made it very possible for
1:10:42women to go to college 600% more so,
1:10:45right? And I think that that is a huge
1:10:46benefit that we can credit to the
1:10:48feminist movement. Though I understand
1:10:50your point though of trying to say that
1:10:51like sex work is harmful for women and
1:10:55more beneficial for men because they're
1:10:57benefiting from it the most. But at the
1:10:59same time if you think they're also
1:11:01suffering from it does that not
1:11:02contradict your point? Yeah. So I
1:11:05disagree on the fact that and and we do
1:11:07agree that more women are going to
1:11:09college more actually more women than
1:11:10men are graduating with college degrees.
1:11:13And despite that people are saying that
1:11:14we still live under a patriarchy. Women
1:11:16are free to start their own companies.
1:11:17Women are free to pay women whatever
1:11:19they want to pay. Women could hire and
1:11:21in some cases do hire all women. And so
1:11:23I don't I don't really understand, which
1:11:26wasn't your argument to be fair, the
1:11:28idea that even with all of that freedom,
1:11:30women are still not able to achieve what
1:11:32men are able to achieve. I think college
1:11:34education actually has increased women's
1:11:38stress. And I'm talking about in terms
1:11:39of how expensive it is. And I know
1:11:41you're going to then say, well, the
1:11:43solution to that is we have to then move
1:11:44the goalpost. And I'm I'm guessing here
1:11:46you but like call it should be free.
1:11:48Everything should be free. He thinks you
1:11:50know we just need more free stuff and
1:11:51obviously nothing's free. We're talking
1:11:52we're just going to
1:11:55say I think the the issue that we keep
1:11:58coming back to is that you believe that
1:12:00women would be happiest in the home
1:12:02where they don't have to work. And I
1:12:03think most people in general probably
1:12:04wouldn't like want to work anyways. But
1:12:07I think the main issue that we keep
1:12:08avoiding is that this is not an issue
1:12:11created by feminism. This is an issue
1:12:13created by capitalism. Yeah. So I've
1:12:16heard this argument that it's an issue
1:12:17created by capitalism. But you don't
1:12:19agree. You think feminism is the greater
1:12:20issue than the system that now is spend
1:12:23more money to live. Well, we have to
1:12:26spend more money to live. I I think in
1:12:28large part because feminists got duped
1:12:30by the government. And I think we're we
1:12:32just keep further enslaving ourselves to
1:12:34the government. I I'm not a person who
1:12:35believes in big government. And yet we
1:12:37find that feminists are constantly like,
1:12:39"Well, we can deal with the college
1:12:41issue. we just need more government. We
1:12:42can deal with the, you know, needing to
1:12:44have more benefits. We just need more
1:12:46government. So, it's like, okay, let's
1:12:47just tax every household 100%. And I'm
1:12:50trying to prevent that. And I'm saying
1:12:51that there was a time in America. And
1:12:53what's aspirational for me is I was uh,
1:12:55you know, raised in part by my
1:12:56grandparents. They were very happy. They
1:12:58were just I I lived in that environment
1:13:00of what that looked like. And I think,
1:13:02okay, for many of people who didn't grow
1:13:04up there, feminism has taught us, and I
1:13:06say this as someone who had to take
1:13:07feminism 101 courses when I was in
1:13:10college, that it's it was like this
1:13:12nightmare and people weren't happy and
1:13:13people were suffering and women were
1:13:15just suffering. People, you know, were
1:13:17being forced and that there weren't
1:13:18actually these things that just
1:13:20marriages that worked, that the women
1:13:22actually weren't disempowered by being
1:13:25the CEOs of their household. Well,
1:13:26allowing women to have more choice and
1:13:28freedom and agency to leave. Sorry,
1:13:30you've been voted out by the majority. I
1:13:32did enjoy this conversation being very
1:13:34respectful.
1:13:40I was thinking that a lot of your claims
1:13:42are very contradictory, saying that we
1:13:44live in a matriarchy, that men benefit
1:13:46from feminism more.
1:13:49I would like to understand why again you
1:13:51think that men benefit from feminism
1:13:52more. Um, basically because men don't
1:13:57have to commit to women. men are still
1:14:00able to do what they're doing and they
1:14:03have they are allowed to basically step
1:14:05away from all of the responsibilities of
1:14:07what it really meant to be a man and
1:14:09lead a household. Uh and that's in large
1:14:11part I think due to the sexual
1:14:12revolution.
1:14:14I mean is it really bad that we don't
1:14:17have to give men the chase? Is it don't
1:14:19they have gratification from chasing us?
1:14:22Like it's a hunter versus prey situation
1:14:23to me. So, I feel like a lot of
1:14:26relationships, especially back then,
1:14:27were based on trying to get to home run
1:14:30like very fast. And now that we have the
1:14:32freedom to not commit and not tie
1:14:35ourselves to one man for the whole the
1:14:37rest of our life, um, I just don't
1:14:38necessarily think that's bad. I just
1:14:40don't think the revolution has decreased
1:14:43our value. We're not chewed gum. We're
1:14:45people who value connection. And sex
1:14:49doesn't always have to have this deep
1:14:52meaning. It is just connection and
1:14:54intimacy between two people who trust
1:14:56each other. And why do we have to deny
1:14:58women that gratification like men you
1:15:02say are wired to want that? Why not
1:15:05women? Why? Uh well we have we again I
1:15:10go back to just our basic biological
1:15:11differences. There was a really
1:15:13interesting book that was done by a
1:15:15biophysicist. He I think recently passed
1:15:17away named Edward O. Wilson where he
1:15:20just sort of breaks down the biological
1:15:23arguments. Basically, he looks in the
1:15:25wild to see the behavior of animals. His
1:15:27thesis is just that you can never you
1:15:29basically can never beat your own
1:15:30biology. And then he kind of compares it
1:15:32to what we see here as just humans and
1:15:35our social interactions and things that
1:15:37have been abundantly clear. When you
1:15:39look at every civilization over time,
1:15:41whether it's from, you know, 400 BC to
1:15:45LA today, what are these habits that you
1:15:48can see that never go away? And people
1:15:51coming together and starting families is
1:15:53one of these things because we are
1:15:55biologically wired to find a family, to
1:15:57settle down, and to have children. And I
1:15:59think when you have women that are going
1:16:01out and they're giving all of the goods
1:16:03up for free, the goods, the goods, the
1:16:06goods, I'm not going to say I'm talking
1:16:08about the goods up for free. Men are not
1:16:12want the goods for free from men and
1:16:13that we are very actually do that and
1:16:16there's connections. We're not saiy
1:16:17salmon. We're not made to breed and have
1:16:19families and then die. You are welcome
1:16:21to do that. I'm just saying that when it
1:16:22comes time for you to find a partner,
1:16:24you may find yourself in a circumstance
1:16:26where men don't value you as high
1:16:27because men like like you spoke to men
1:16:30like to compete. They like to feel like
1:16:31they've won something. I'd like to
1:16:32deprive them because they don't need to
1:16:35have that. That's actually like that's
1:16:36actually but but you did bring up you
1:16:38did bring up Yeah. And that's what you
1:16:40say that men are, you know, essentially
1:16:42predatory and we have the goods that we
1:16:43have to like keep from them. Oh, I
1:16:46didn't mean the goods in a bad way.
1:16:48That's such an objectifying way. The
1:16:49goods with the grocery goods. Honestly,
1:16:51I I think I think that that's just kind
1:16:53of you don't have value
1:16:55songs today. I think we have value apart
1:16:58from how many people we sleep with, how
1:17:00many like you also devalue education for
1:17:03women. And I think that's very
1:17:04interesting because you're also a very
1:17:05educated woman and in a lot of ways this
1:17:09is just like an observation. You do you
1:17:11devalue yourself a lot. I definitely do
1:17:13not feel like I'm devaluing myself. Um
1:17:15make him a sandwich. Yeah.
1:17:18Yes. Which is the title of my book. Yes.
1:17:20Feed your men and everything. Feed the
1:17:22people that you love because family
1:17:24isn't defined just by your partner or
1:17:27your kids. Family is community and you
1:17:29should care about your community and
1:17:30understanding that. I just don't think
1:17:33you really care about the community that
1:17:35much when you're pushing this rhetoric
1:17:36of devaluing women so much to stay in
1:17:39the kitchen, stay within the homes, and
1:17:41also saying that they're wasting money
1:17:42on college when education is very
1:17:44important. There's a lot of female
1:17:46scientists. You've been voted out.
1:17:50Sorry. Sorry. You've been voted out.
1:17:57Thank you. Hello. Hi. How are you?
1:17:59What's your name? I'm Zola Stone. Very
1:18:01nice to meet you, Zia. very pretty eyes.
1:18:03Thank you. Um, so you keep talking about
1:18:06Only Fans and Kim Kardashian and um,
1:18:11well, I do Only Fans. Okay. And I'm a
1:18:14stripper as well. So, you're in the sex
1:18:16industry. Um, well, I'm mainly a
1:18:18recording artist, but I do that to fund
1:18:21the music. Okay. But, you know, you're
1:18:24saying basically that we kind of like
1:18:26devalue ourselves, but at the same time,
1:18:29I'm celibate. I still consider myself a
1:18:31woman of God and so
1:18:35you know not all of us are just out
1:18:37there just oh hey showing the goods you
1:18:40know like we do respect our bodies still
1:18:43so I don't like that you kind of putting
1:18:45us all in one box because of that so we
1:18:47have to in order to have debates we have
1:18:49to make generalizations of course there
1:18:50can be some exceptions to the rule but
1:18:52what I'm trying to understand is how can
1:18:54you say that you're not you know giving
1:18:58up your body if you are a stripper
1:19:00Well, cuz I said I'm celibate. I still
1:19:02want to get married. I still want to
1:19:04have kids. And for some of us, it's hard
1:19:06for us to have kids. And I've also dealt
1:19:08with sexual abuse since a child, you
1:19:11know. So, I wasn't doing any sexual work
1:19:15as a child, you know, and still went
1:19:17through things like that. So, so I first
1:19:21want to say perfectly sympathetic to
1:19:23everything you're saying, especially if
1:19:24you come from an environment where
1:19:25you've lived through something when
1:19:26you're a kid. It makes it infinitely
1:19:27harder. And it's actually a reason why
1:19:29so many people turn to sex work because
1:19:31they don't have that structure um at
1:19:33home that gives them I think other
1:19:35options. But would you agree with me
1:19:37that if you could like that wouldn't I
1:19:40went to college for music production?
1:19:42For music production. I went to LA
1:19:43recording school. Okay. So did you
1:19:45decide to be a stripper because of
1:19:46economic restraint or because of
1:19:48freedom?
1:19:49For freedom. You know we want the choice
1:19:51to do whatever we want with our bodies.
1:19:54Okay. you know, um I don't think it
1:19:56matters if you do want to dress how you
1:19:59want to dress. That doesn't mean, oh,
1:20:01you can, you know, sexually abuse or
1:20:03sexually harassed. Okay. Do you think
1:20:04the men that are being brought into the
1:20:07strip clubs to watch you? Do you think
1:20:09that they're walking away and going, I
1:20:10did that because that woman was
1:20:12empowered to take off her clothes, or do
1:20:14you think that they're actually
1:20:15devaluing women? No, I get it. I used to
1:20:17be that hypocrite, you know? I said
1:20:19things that I said I would never do
1:20:21anything like that, you know? Like I
1:20:23totally get that, but some people just
1:20:25want to go to the club and have a good
1:20:27time. Yeah. I think most of the people
1:20:28who are making those decisions are doing
1:20:30it because they have they're dealing
1:20:32with addictions themselves. I think
1:20:33you're worth more than taking your
1:20:35clothes off. I think that if you wanted
1:20:36to have a career in music, you wouldn't
1:20:39have to take your clothes off to do
1:20:40that. And I think that it's sad that
1:20:43you've been Every story is different.
1:20:46Every story is different. But I do think
1:20:47that, you know, we can make a
1:20:48generalization. I was at that point
1:20:50where I was going to college. I was
1:20:52working three jobs. I used to be a
1:20:53nurse. So, you just don't know the
1:20:56situations. You don't know how life is
1:20:58going to turn out. It's going to be ups
1:21:00and downs. But, no, I didn't want to do
1:21:03it. But in my situation and things that
1:21:06I went through, it's something that it
1:21:08just But I'm actually really glad that
1:21:10you said no, I didn't want to do it and
1:21:12you were put in a situation where you
1:21:14had to do it because I think that's
1:21:15really honest. And I think the problem
1:21:17that I find with feminism is that it's
1:21:19it's tremendously it's a dishonest
1:21:21movement. All right, guys. Pause. You've
1:21:23been voted out by the majority. I'm not
1:21:26judging.
1:21:32Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you,
1:21:33Catherine. Candace, you brought up a
1:21:36book about that we are going to biology
1:21:38and that biology is what we should
1:21:41organize society on based on like what
1:21:43skills men are good at. I can I can
1:21:45restate what I said there that there is
1:21:47a book and the argument that's being
1:21:48made is that you can't override you
1:21:50can't outthink your biology is the
1:21:51easiest way to say it. So feminism I
1:21:54would say is a movement where they are
1:21:55trying to outthink biology. Meaning that
1:21:57all we have to do is this this this and
1:22:00that and then magically we're going to
1:22:01be transformed and that desire within us
1:22:03to want to start a family is just going
1:22:05to like die or we're going to be happier
1:22:07doing this thing. And I think the answer
1:22:09to that is no, right? Mhm. Um, I would
1:22:12argue that our biology does not have as
1:22:16much of an effect on the things that we
1:22:17choose to do with our careers, with our
1:22:19life choices as you think it does. Our
1:22:21closest ancestors are chimps and
1:22:23bonobos. Bonobos are matriarchal. Chimps
1:22:25are patriarchal. So, and our previous
1:22:28societies have run egalitarian for
1:22:30millennia. It's not been this inherent
1:22:33desire for men to rule a certain way and
1:22:36women to rule another way. It has been
1:22:39egalitarian. It's been patriarchal. It's
1:22:41been patriarchal because there are
1:22:43things that go into
1:22:45effect like your situation, your
1:22:47personality that make you better at
1:22:50doing something than just your biology.
1:22:52I know many quiet nerdy men that would
1:22:54not be good leaders and I know many
1:22:56strong women and vice versa. Like it
1:22:58does not matter as based your
1:23:01testosterone and the hormones you admit
1:23:03is not going to have as much of an
1:23:04effect as I think you think it does. I
1:23:06totally think it does. And so that's why
1:23:08let's getting back to college since I'm
1:23:11I'm assuming you support women going to
1:23:13college. Can you explain why there is
1:23:15when they can freely choose why there is
1:23:18such a difference in the majors that
1:23:23women choose versus the majors that men
1:23:25choose when they get to college? Well, I
1:23:27think it's also important to note that
1:23:28things are changing and there's like
1:23:29many initiatives to get more women into
1:23:31STEM, to get women into higher paying
1:23:33career fields. When women have been kept
1:23:35out of these fields for so long, it's a
1:23:37slow and steady race to get them there.
1:23:39It's not that women are not choosing
1:23:41them. It's they're slowly learning that
1:23:43this is okay for them to choose. There's
1:23:44more women in STEM. There's more
1:23:45lawyers. There's more women women are
1:23:47making up strides to those positions.
1:23:50So, it's not like they're sedentary and
1:23:52they're staying in these humanities or
1:23:54arts fields. I don't think you're being
1:23:56honest. I think you know like if did you
1:23:58go to college? I mean I'm in college. I
1:23:59think I know that I'm in ar it's not
1:24:01because they're not pressured. is
1:24:02because when quite literally they say
1:24:04what are you interested in women flock
1:24:06to certain things they just do we do we
1:24:08as a whole do it tends to be and this is
1:24:11is because we are biologically wired and
1:24:13even when a child is born when a a woman
1:24:16like a a female uh a child versus a male
1:24:19child the girls start speaking faster
1:24:22and they speak more words just a fact
1:24:23right for the rest of their lives like
1:24:25my daughter started speaking and this is
1:24:26not anecdotal but this is I'm giving you
1:24:28an anecdotal example of something that
1:24:29is a real fact so there's just a
1:24:30biological proclivity that women like
1:24:33communication and you see that followed
1:24:35all the way as an example into college.
1:24:37Women are drawn towards these careers
1:24:39that are compassionate, emotional and
1:24:42communicative which is why you'll see
1:24:43women flooding journalism. That's why
1:24:45even when you see women that are finding
1:24:47success, they are typically in careers
1:24:49that are communicative and
1:24:51compassionate. Women that will say, "I
1:24:53want to do psychology. I want to do
1:24:54children's psychology." And so even at
1:24:56the same time that women are saying that
1:24:57they're running away from their biology,
1:24:59so to speak, they are still exhibiting
1:25:01that they very much believe in these
1:25:05determined biological characteristics
1:25:08that I think are something that's just
1:25:09never going to go away. Right. But I
1:25:10would also bring up that the the way
1:25:13that women are young girls are given
1:25:16dolls, young boys are put in sports.
1:25:18These things that kids learn at a very
1:25:20early age are very impactful in what
1:25:23children like and pursue in the future.
1:25:25It's not simply that I don't think
1:25:27there's a biological gene that women
1:25:29like fashion and men don't. That's why
1:25:32we do see men in fashion. That's why
1:25:33there's actually at the top of all these
1:25:35fashion houses a lot of men are in
1:25:36successful positions in fashion. Um the
1:25:40way in which you teach a children to
1:25:41explore creativity and to play in what
1:25:43we put women in. put women in pink rooms
1:25:46and little girls in pink rooms and boys
1:25:48in blue room. That has an effect. So,
1:25:50and I'll tell you why I disagree. And I
1:25:51know because I had my children back
1:25:53toback that there was there's a blur
1:25:54here. So, I never had to separate them
1:25:56and say, "You play with this, you play
1:25:57with that." They were growing up with
1:25:59their toys. I mean, one year apart, my
1:26:01daughter and my son, they just are
1:26:03interested in different things. And this
1:26:04is one of the I think lies of feminism.
1:26:06And when you actually have children,
1:26:08there may be some exceptional child, but
1:26:10I am telling you, my boy's first word
1:26:12was car. He is obsessed with trucks.
1:26:13He's obsessed with cars. I did not do
1:26:15that. I do not like I don't like having
1:26:16to answer his questions about cars. I
1:26:17don't like having to answer his
1:26:18questions about trucks because my
1:26:20biological proclivities are not designed
1:26:23I I'm just not feeling passionate about
1:26:25engineering and wanting to know how
1:26:26everything works. You don't recognize
1:26:28that. And this is I think one of the
1:26:29worst harms of feminism because I was a
1:26:31feminist when I was in college or I I at
1:26:33least thought I agreed with the movement
1:26:35because you don't have the family yet.
1:26:36So when they make these arguments that
1:26:38you're making, you think that that's
1:26:39real. You think, "Oh, well, it's just
1:26:40because you're not giving the child the
1:26:42the Barbie doll that they don't love
1:26:44Barbie dolls." And that's not a reality.
1:26:46We are just quite literally different.
1:26:48I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Time is up.
1:26:56I am going to choose Jenny to have a
1:26:59further conversation with because I
1:27:00thought that it was a respectful
1:27:01dialogue and I want people to be able to
1:27:03learn from the differences and I think
1:27:06she is probably the best equipped person
1:27:08to get that done.
1:27:11Thank you.
1:27:13My claim is that I believe feminism is
1:27:16wrongly interpreted as anti-men when it
1:27:18benefits both men and women. It's a
1:27:21great claim. I like that claim. Thank
1:27:23you. Okay. So, I think that in today's
1:27:28environment, when you look at the
1:27:30messaging that's coming out from
1:27:32self-proclaimed feminists, it's very
1:27:34much an F men, men can't do anything,
1:27:38women can do bad all by themselves sort
1:27:40of colloquial messaging, which I think
1:27:42is harmful to men and to women. I have
1:27:47seen examples of people that I truly do
1:27:50think are more old school who don't do
1:27:52that. But I think in 2025 we we've
1:27:54landed on the side of this it's being it
1:27:56is I think rising to a level of just
1:27:58being anti-men which is not what I think
1:28:00it was supposed to be aspirationally.
1:28:02Okay. Um in response to that I would
1:28:04just like to say I think that in all
1:28:06ideologies and beliefs there is a
1:28:08spectrum right and and on either side
1:28:10there's going to be a radical point of
1:28:12view. I do understand how it may come
1:28:15across as negative when women say things
1:28:18like, "I hate all men," or, "F men this,
1:28:21f men that." But I'm also, as a woman,
1:28:24not going to fault other women for
1:28:26having that perspective and fear because
1:28:29unfortunately, our greatest predator is
1:28:31men. Our greatest harm does come from
1:28:34men. And therefore, when women have
1:28:36experienced violence from men, when
1:28:38women have experienced oppression from
1:28:40men, I'm not going to fault them for
1:28:43feeling that way and expressing such.
1:28:45And I think the onus does rely more on
1:28:47men for acknowledging that these issues
1:28:50do exist. It is harming women. And
1:28:53unfortunately, a lot of men don't listen
1:28:55to women, and they actually would rather
1:28:57listen to other men. While that may seem
1:28:59like negative messaging, if we can get
1:29:01past the idea of, oh, this feels like
1:29:04it's attacking my character, like I feel
1:29:06like feminism is attacking me as a man,
1:29:08then I think that we can have a much
1:29:11more productive discussion and move
1:29:12forward in making sure that this society
1:29:15is better for everybody. And I do
1:29:16believe that feminism benefits men as
1:29:18well. And I think that's also
1:29:20misunderstood and misinterpreted in that
1:29:22um when we hear that instantly we turn
1:29:24off. We don't want to listen, right? But
1:29:26when we look at historically what
1:29:28feminism does, it's actually trying to
1:29:30bring women at an equal level to men,
1:29:32give them the same opportunities and
1:29:34options as men, and also not receive the
1:29:37same judgment that men do for the same
1:29:39actions. And so I believe that when men
1:29:43are exposed to more female role models,
1:29:45when men are exposed to more feminine um
1:29:48more feministleaning women, they
1:29:50actually have higher quality of life.
1:29:51They have deeper conversations that they
1:29:53can have with their loved ones. All the
1:29:55men that I know in my life are feminists
1:29:58and it is because they are feminists
1:29:59that we all have a beautiful community
1:30:01and beautiful friendships.
1:30:04Yeah. So I would actually even expand it
1:30:07to say that not only is feminism hostile
1:30:09to men but it's also very hostile to
1:30:11women and I think you saw a lot of
1:30:12example of that today where there seems
1:30:14to be a reaction when a woman says
1:30:16children are beautiful. It's like, oh my
1:30:18god, how how dare you say that? Like
1:30:19having a child. And it's like, why is
1:30:20there this instant reaction to people
1:30:22that are traditional? And you see that
1:30:24when we have a society which is really
1:30:26kind of being dominated by what I would
1:30:28call like this hyper sexual character
1:30:32like of the Kim Kardashian prototype of
1:30:34feminism, weighed against the other
1:30:36extreme, which would be like the Lena
1:30:37Dunham types who are coming out. Lena
1:30:39Dunham's much more the Fmen forever. Kim
1:30:41Kardashian is kind of the when I was
1:30:42saying like come get everything for
1:30:44free, you know, that sort of a model.
1:30:46And I think both of them reject
1:30:49tradition in a way that there's a little
1:30:51bit of hatred there for women who don't
1:30:54want to climb the ladder and work 45
1:30:57hours a week for a small paycheck and
1:31:00who actually aspire to marriage. They're
1:31:02they think that there's something
1:31:03intrinsically backwards about that. They
1:31:05think that there's something wrong with
1:31:07women who are wholesome and happy and
1:31:09they instantly try to problematize that.
1:31:11And I'd say one of the greatest cultural
1:31:12examples of that today was like the
1:31:14feminist attack on Ballerina Farm, which
1:31:17just kind of came out of nowhere. It was
1:31:18so weird. I'm like, we have an example
1:31:19of every feminist on the cover of
1:31:21everything. And it's like, but no, this
1:31:23woman can't have 10 million followers.
1:31:24She's not allowed to have 10 million
1:31:25followers. We have to take her down. And
1:31:28that to me, that to me is the greatest
1:31:31example of what modern feminism has
1:31:32become because they pretend it's about
1:31:34choice, but in reality, they want every
1:31:36woman to enter the workforce and to
1:31:38pretend that they're happy in the
1:31:40workforce from a a 9 toive job trying to
1:31:43compete with men. And I I think if
1:31:44people are being honest, the
1:31:45overwhelming majority of women are doing
1:31:47that because of financial power, not
1:31:49because they're really happy and that's
1:31:51why they're binge drinking on the
1:31:52weekends. And okay, I disagree with
1:31:55that. I think that feminism just gives
1:31:56women options. And if you want to be a
1:31:59stay-at-home like wife and you want to
1:32:00be a trad wife, that's fine. Feminism is
1:32:03not, in my opinion, I think a lot of
1:32:05other people agree with me, feminism is
1:32:07not the belief that you can't do those
1:32:08things and we're trying to convince
1:32:09women that they they have to work. I
1:32:12believe that feminism is if you want to
1:32:14work, go do that. Go get that bag, you
1:32:17know, but if you don't and you want to
1:32:18be a stay-at-home wife, then there
1:32:20shouldn't be consequences for doing
1:32:22that. And I think the whole ballerina
1:32:25farm discussion is kind of highlighting
1:32:27some of the consequences. We see a woman
1:32:29who wanted to be a ballerina but gave up
1:32:32that passion and dream to be a mother.
1:32:34And I don't think that it's wrong to
1:32:36want both. I think that you can I think
1:32:38there's value in being a mother. I think
1:32:39there's value in having a family. Right?
1:32:41I work with kids all the time as a swim
1:32:43teacher. I love kids. But at the same
1:32:45time, I don't want to have to choose
1:32:47between kids and my career path or my
1:32:51project. Choose. And that's another
1:32:52thing is they just keep rejecting her
1:32:54answering this question a thousand
1:32:55times. Of course, when you're young and
1:32:57before you have kids, the things that I
1:32:58wanted to do aspirationally has
1:33:00radically transformed from now that I'm
1:33:02married, it's suddenly everything came
1:33:04into focus. And really, I understand
1:33:07that family is what it's all about. It's
1:33:08like you have your first kid and you
1:33:10just you change entirely. Your focus
1:33:12changes. And I do find exactly what
1:33:14you're saying is that even when she
1:33:16herself says, "This is what I wanted. I
1:33:18was not forced to give up. You know,
1:33:19that's what I wanted when it was just
1:33:21me." me in my life and I went to
1:33:22Julliard and I did what I wanted to do
1:33:24and I danced as a ballerina and then my
1:33:27husband moved to support me as a
1:33:28ballerina and then I got pregnant and it
1:33:30when you have a child your entire world
1:33:34changes instantly in a moment and it's
1:33:36hard to describe that to someone who
1:33:38doesn't have a child yet because when I
1:33:39was there I didn't understand it either
1:33:40so I actually would have agreed more
1:33:42with you until that moment happens you
1:33:44don't get it um and so what I'm saying
1:33:47is that to see people constantly try to
1:33:49problematize her life when she's I have
1:33:51eight kids now. It's like not only do I
1:33:52love kids, I have eight of them and I'm
1:33:55cooking and I'm going to school and I'm
1:33:56bringing them with me to Ireland. And
1:33:58the attacks on the trad culture, it just
1:34:01shows you that there is fundamentally a
1:34:02hatred for tradition. And I think that
1:34:04hatred is being bred into women. And
1:34:07ultimately when you find those women at
1:34:0950 who have chased their careers, it has
1:34:12been my experience and they don't have
1:34:14family that they suffer from tremendous
1:34:18unhappiness if they've missed that
1:34:19window of opportunity to start a family.
1:34:21I mean I would like to disagree with
1:34:22that point that feminism is hating on
1:34:25the tradife life. I think there is a
1:34:27misrepresentation of that life that's
1:34:30being fed to people. For example, people
1:34:32like Nara Smith and Ballerina Farm are
1:34:35they are social media content creators.
1:34:37That is their job, right? So, it's not
1:34:39that they're just a stay-at-home mom.
1:34:40Content creation itself, as I'm sure
1:34:42you're aware, is also a job, right? So,
1:34:44they are not actually fully tried wives.
1:34:47They also are working. And on top of
1:34:49that, they are marketing this lifestyle
1:34:51that is not attainable by everybody.
1:34:54It's not feasible, and I think you agree
1:34:56with this too, to be spending 8 hours
1:34:58cooking like, I don't know, chocolate
1:35:00chip cookies from scratch where you've
1:35:01harvested the cocoa yourself. You know
1:35:03what I mean? And it's not feasible in
1:35:06our current economic system, right? And
1:35:08maybe that's what people want and that's
1:35:10great. And I don't think feminism is the
1:35:11one that's telling you you shouldn't
1:35:13want this. I disagree with that
1:35:14strongly. I think feminism is telling
1:35:16you that if you want to pursue that,
1:35:18that's great. That's for you. I've never
1:35:20met a feminist that didn't find a
1:35:21problem with the tried wives. And and
1:35:23that's my point is that it's this
1:35:24illusion. Well, you're meeting one now.
1:35:26You're I think I don't think because as
1:35:28soon as I said something traditional,
1:35:30everyone rejected. I said you get more
1:35:32you will get more purpose and joy from
1:35:35raising a you get joy from raising a
1:35:37child and everyone acted like when I
1:35:38said you get joy from raising a child
1:35:40like I had stabbed them in the chest.
1:35:41Like guys, shouldn't we just like
1:35:43understand that children are like it's a
1:35:46good children? I don't think any of us
1:35:48here hate kids. I think I think the
1:35:51point is it's not about oh I've
1:35:54mentioned something traditional and this
1:35:56is the the reaction that I'm getting
1:35:58from it. It's that it's almost like
1:36:00you're making an assumption that this
1:36:02applies to everybody. I I do I am making
1:36:05a generalization and I am saying if the
1:36:09majority of women did not invest time to
1:36:12start a family women would be miserable.
1:36:14And I think that recognizing that when
1:36:17women start to like the biological clock
1:36:18is real and women start to recognize
1:36:20that they spend so much time trying to
1:36:22climb a ladder and they maybe don't find
1:36:23a partner and it's harder to find a
1:36:25partner now because as I said we have
1:36:26devalued ourselves by giving up sex so
1:36:29freely. I do see that there is an
1:36:32increase in those types of women who are
1:36:34relying on drugs to make them happy
1:36:35whether they're right but not not
1:36:37everybody wants marriage and not
1:36:39everybody wants a relationship.
1:36:40Overwhelmingly,
1:36:41women women do want the safety of a
1:36:44relationship in a happy home. And I
1:36:46think that feminism lies to you and
1:36:48tells you that you don't until it's too
1:36:49late. And that's that is what I do a lot
1:36:50of work trying to get women to
1:36:52understand. Yeah. No, and I understand
1:36:53that you're you're trying I'm sorry. I'm
1:36:55sorry. That's time. I do apologize.
1:36:59You have people who are coming because
1:37:00they want to create a social media
1:37:02moment and these are always I've done so
1:37:03many events the most frustrating things
1:37:05because nobody's learning. And I also
1:37:07think it's something that women that are
1:37:09young need to come to terms with or
1:37:12they're going to end up on the other
1:37:13side and be miserable and be popping
1:37:14pills like a lot of women who bought
1:37:16into the illusion of feminism did. So it
1:37:18was frustrating but also people can see
1:37:21like how many times I just couldn't
1:37:23wasn't allowed to speak. It is important
1:37:26to interrupt conservatives specifically
1:37:28conservatives like Candace because once
1:37:30you do that their policies will will
1:37:32show themselves. today. It felt like one
1:37:35conservative, a 19 cisgender mainstream
1:37:38feminist, and the weird queer person
1:37:41just kind of hanging out. We absolutely
1:37:43are part of the feminist movement, and I
1:37:45hope the the mainstream gets that one
1:37:47day. I think that Candace herself is a
1:37:50great example that you can do both. And
1:37:52when you have a society and a culture
1:37:55that encourages women to do what they
1:37:57want, how they want, in a way that is
1:37:59safe and healthy, you will see that
1:38:02women can do it all, as she said, and be
1:38:05happy. I don't think that you have to
1:38:07choose between having kids and having a
1:38:10career. And I think that that is like a
1:38:12fundamentally misleading
1:38:15argument.
1:38:17I guess I would just say we all agree
1:38:19that sandwiches are good. We just
1:38:21disagree on who should be making them.

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