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⚡Can YOU Spot a Psychopath? SUSAN SMITH Up For Parole! — Transcript

by The Behavior Panel · 6,836 words · 1,071 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00We had the best time doing the initial
0:01breakdown of the body language and
0:03behavior in this video, and we decided
0:05we'd revisit some of our favorite
0:06moments from it.
0:08So what if I can't I I can't do anything
0:10but think about them?
0:13And I
0:16I just want to hug them, Scott.
0:19And tell them I love them.
0:20Greg, what do you got?
0:22Yeah, so right off the beginning of
0:24this, it might be true that she wants to
0:26hug them, she wants to do this, she
0:27wants to do that, but she's eye
0:29blocking. There is not a single bit of
0:33grief. There's no concern, nothing in
0:35the forehead, there's no snot, no tears.
0:37It's the worst kind of fake cry. It's a
0:39Scott, I'm so sorry. You really don't
0:41like what I did. That's all it is. This
0:43is garbage. Chase, what do you got?
0:46Yeah, I agree with you. So this eye
0:48closure is not from the crying.
0:51This is exactly what you just said,
0:53Greg. This is avoidance.
0:55There's no movement here in the chin
0:56boss, which we always see when we see
0:58shame and and grief. There's a hygienic
1:01gesture during the crying.
1:04And it's not to wipe tears, which is
1:07very unusual. So adjusting your hair
1:10while crying
1:11doesn't look very good. So she's kind of
1:13just pushing her hair back there. That's
1:15what we call in the behavior business a
1:16hygienic gesture.
1:18And she said, "I just want to hug them."
1:20I just want to hug them, Scott.
1:22There's a baton gesture she does with
1:24her hand as she's talking. Her hand's
1:27back here. Something that we always look
1:29for is things that don't line up. Scott
1:30talks about this in a lot of the other
1:32videos when a gesture doesn't really
1:34match up with a person's phrases. What I
1:37think is interesting here is that the
1:39gesture doesn't match up with anything
1:41that's going on. Doesn't match up
1:42emotionally with the tone of her voice
1:44or the cadence or the words that she's
1:46saying. So I would I would like to
1:48invent a new a name for what we're
1:50seeing here where it doesn't match up
1:51with anything and just call it gesture
1:53arrhythmia.
1:55Okay, I I called it
1:58ill
1:59illustrator non-alignment or something
2:01like that with the word alignment in
2:02there for the illustration. So, it was
2:03close.
2:04Yep.
2:05The past. Yep.
2:06Yeah.
2:07I think this is
2:08this gesture isn't associated with
2:10sadness or grief or loss or anything
2:12there.
2:13And
2:14that's all I got for this video. Mark,
2:16what do you see?
2:17Yep. So, I agree. There is what I would
2:20call incongruence. But I think you're
2:22talking about some extreme incongruence
2:25where it just doesn't really match up
2:27with anything. So, misalignment,
2:30arrhythmia, I think they're all good
2:32descriptions of that. Here's what jumps
2:34out at me. I I I them.
2:38Okay, so if I can't
2:39I can't do anything but think about
2:41them.
2:42Then the grooming that you were talking
2:44about there, I them them I.
2:46I just want to hug them so bad.
2:49And tell them I love them.
2:50So, there's way more I's than them.
2:54They're they're a
2:55a collective. There's not even any names
2:57of the children. So, it's very
2:59egocentric at this point. The male is
3:02very different from the female.
3:04Different rhythm going on. Not joining
3:06in with this this crying. You know, even
3:09if it is you know, kind of fake. He's
3:12not even joining in. Not enjoying in
3:13with anything real or fake here. And I
3:16think he gives a sour taste in his mouth
3:19as well. So, I think there is some
3:20strong differences between the male and
3:22the female here. Female here very
3:24self-centered in the description there.
3:27And the grooming as you say, Chase, is
3:30just it's just not applicable in this
3:32situation at all.
3:35Uh Scott, what do you got on this one?
3:37All right. She's moving really slow.
3:39This lets us know that she there's a lot
3:41going on up here. She's thinking through
3:43what she's going to say. She she doesn't
3:44really she's not really experiencing
3:46these emotions. So, we're not seeing
3:47them on her face. She's she's showing us
3:49what she thinks we that we want to see
3:52or should be seeing at this point. When
3:54you compare Susan with her husband,
3:57do this throughout all these videos when
3:59he's in there, too. Dramatic. I remember
4:01when this happened, and I remember when
4:02she got busted or soon before she got
4:05busted because the the we'll see a video
4:08I'll I'll I'll tell you that story when
4:10we get to that video because it's it's I
4:13I'll never forget I'll never forget that
4:14day.
4:15Um and everything is based on feel sorry
4:17for me. It's all about me and and and
4:19just feel sorry for me. I You're right,
4:21Marcus. I me. It's all about me at this
4:24point. And when you turn the sound off,
4:26as you'll see in all these videos if
4:27you'll do this, she looks like she's
4:29retiring from
4:30a job somewhere or she These are the
4:33same faces you see and same emotions you
4:35don't see that you're not seeing when
4:37someone's retiring or someone is um
4:41leaving a job and they're telling
4:42everybody goodbye. That's what it looks
4:44like. It doesn't look like somebody
4:45who's grieving over their children.
4:48It it it doesn't look like that at all.
4:50The stress we're seeing is is when she's
4:52moving slow and not looking at the
4:54camera and not connecting with anyone.
4:57So, these are all we're all we're seeing
4:58a bunch of stress on her, rightfully so
5:01because she's not telling the truth
5:02here, but she's sort of creating this I
5:04I I think she had a pretty good idea of
5:06what she was going to say, but that was
5:07it. I don't think she rehearsed this at
5:09all when she get when it before it came
5:11down to game time for showtime for her.
5:14All right.
5:14God, I disagree with one thing you said
5:16fully.
5:17What?
5:18There's a lot going on in her head. I
5:19disagree.
5:23Okay, I stand corrected.
5:25I can't sleep. I can't eat. I can't do
5:27anything but think about them.
5:30And just
5:33I just want to hug them so bad.
5:36And tell them I love them.
5:39I want to say to my babies
5:43that your mama loves you so much. And
5:45your daddy this whole family's love you
5:47so much.
5:50And you guys have got to be strong.
5:54Because you are we we we I just know
5:57I just feel in my heart that you're
5:59okay, but you got to take care of each
6:02other.
6:05And your mom and daddy going to be right
6:06here waiting on you when you get home.
6:09I'm going to go first on this one
6:10because it goes back to that video
6:13our last video when I was telling you
6:14about
6:16something happened. When this happened,
6:18when this video came out, there are two
6:19versions of this video. I couldn't I
6:21spent all night last night looking for
6:22the second version of it. It's a wider
6:24shot of everybody in it and it's got
6:25family members and other people in it.
6:28And she's talking, her eyebrows are up.
6:30Look at everyone else. They show
6:31concern, their eyebrows are down like
6:33this. They're they're thinking, "Oh my
6:34no you know my lord, what's happened?"
6:36That's when my this is before you had
6:38cell phones, you know, or before I had
6:40one anyway, my phone started ringing and
6:42it was everybody I knew going, "Did you
6:44just see that on Did you just see that
6:46on the news? Did you see uh Susan
6:47Smith?" I was like, "Yeah, we're all
6:49like, holy smokes man, she's going to
6:50the pokey because she did this." At
6:53least look at her husband. That's really
6:55the only one you can see in here. Look
6:56at his eyebrows. That's what her's
6:57should be doing, showing concern. She
6:59shows no concern. And again, this is all
7:01about her. The content is all focused on
7:04her, on me, on I. Listen to what she's
7:06saying.
7:07No brow no brow movement in there no no
7:10expressions really of anything. Nothing
7:12much moving at all. And there's no plea
7:14to kidnap her.
7:15You know, and she's telling these little
7:16children, one of them is three and the
7:18other one is a year and a half and she's
7:20saying, "Look, take care of each other."
7:21You got to take care of each other.
7:23Really? Have you ever said that to a
7:26a three-year-old and and the other one,
7:28"You two take care of each other." Are
7:29you kidding me? If they saw it, you know
7:31your mother's No. She
7:34No, she stepped in it here. So and no
7:36anger, no nothing. We're seeing none of
7:38the emotions or expressions we should be
7:40seeing here. So that's a lie and her
7:42eyes especially with her eyebrows, they
7:44shouldn't be up, they should be down.
7:45She should be
7:46focused and telling whoever's got her
7:48children that they're going to find them
7:50and and
7:52they need to bring them back. That's
7:53what should be going on there. Okay,
7:54Chase, what do you got?
7:57Even Even better, I fully agree with
7:59that. She met this alleged person who
8:02did this. She spent time with this
8:04person face-to-face.
8:07So, that even makes it a worse case for
8:10the vanishing perpetrator.
8:13And what we're seeing here, there's
8:14showing of this more eye contact
8:16avoidant behavior, which is what she
8:18what she's doing. This is not avoiding
8:20to stop herself from crying at all.
8:23And I think it's interesting to note
8:24that she does this while she her eyes
8:26are staying at kind of 5:00. Cuz you can
8:29see where her eyes are looking
8:31uh
8:31certain direction there, which suggests
8:33internal dialogue and not any emotion
8:36going on.
8:38And
8:39when does the chin boss move? It moves a
8:41couple of times here. It moves when
8:43she's talking about herself and how good
8:45she is as a mother.
8:47Your mama loves you so much.
8:49And while she's saying a lot of this
8:50stuff, we have lip licking. There's uh
8:53right at the end here. Lip licking,
8:54there's lip retraction. Lip licking is
8:57to make ourselves look better. Lip
8:59retraction is typically a need for
9:00reassurance.
9:02Right there at the end.
9:03And there's a complete lack of emotion.
9:05So, I want you to go look and see what's
9:08missing here. If if a person if she had
9:10met and witnessed a person take her
9:13children,
9:14what's really missing from this
9:15conversation? What's being hidden? And
9:18this is what's being hidden from this is
9:20the perpetrator. So, when there's data
9:22being hidden,
9:23that's a huge red flag. Should be for
9:24anybody. Uh Greg, what do you think?
9:27Yeah, I'll take it a step further. She
9:29didn't just meet him, she described him,
9:32even had an artist draw a picture and it
9:34was all BS. It was all made up. But here
9:36we see no grief, no concern. She
9:38stumbles through words because she's
9:40trying to think of what to say.
9:41Interestingly, Scott, you say her brows
9:43aren't down, they're up. But they're not
9:44even up, they're just flat. They're
9:46emotionless. That's even worse. If she
9:48was going like this or shock or
9:49something, we might feel good about it.
9:51The only time I see any concern in her
9:53brow at all is when she says, "I know
9:56you are okay." and her brows do
9:58something odd. You get a little flash of
10:00something right between her brows cuz
10:01she knows he isn't. Now, we often will
10:04talk about lip licking and that. But
10:06Desmond Morris talked about something
10:07called a tongue jut and he said it's
10:09baby's first way to reject something or
10:11something distasteful to push out. We're
10:13going to see her do the Morris tongue
10:15jut, not just this time, but other
10:16times, too. When she talks about your
10:19mama and your daddy and she goes
10:21like that, that's a that's a Morris
10:23tongue jut all day.
10:24And your mama and daddy are going to be
10:25right here waiting on you when you get
10:26home.
10:27Then she bites her lip as she draws it
10:30back in. And I think that might be
10:31containment or an adapter. This is ugly.
10:34This is There's nothing good in anything
10:37she's doing. And to your point, Scott,
10:39the husband looks just like he's out of
10:41touch with everything. Now, he's also
10:43there estranged before she does this.
10:45One thing you should know is they
10:46believe that the reason she disposed of
10:48her children is because somebody she had
10:50had an an affair or at least a starting
10:52relationship with didn't want children.
10:54Sound familiar? Mark, what do you got?
10:57Uh yeah, I'll tell you what's missing
10:58for me, uh Chase, and you know,
11:01whatever's missing for all of you. And
11:03you know, put it down there. But um it's
11:06all eye block as far as I can see. So
11:09there's zero from this angle for me.
11:12There's zero eye contact with that
11:15potential audience who might have
11:17information on where her kid is. You
11:20know, I would expect, and if it were me,
11:24you know, to be making a lot of eye
11:25contact with the public and trying to
11:27get information across is here's who
11:29we're looking for and if you know
11:30anything, all of those standard things,
11:33I'm getting none of that.
11:35Um yeah, the lip licking, the biting as
11:37well.
11:38They're very out of the ordinary for
11:41what we saw from her before, so they
11:44kind of come out of nowhere. That rings
11:46alarm bells. It's around when you get
11:49home. So, there's something about that
11:52that push on when you get home and the
11:55lip bite there, that's alarming for me
11:57as well.
11:59Biggest alarming thing for me is
12:02when I usually see you know, a couple or
12:05a mother or a father or any kind of, you
12:07know, primary caregiver who is in this
12:11situation, the emotions collide. It's
12:14quite complex. There's a lot going on
12:16because they're trying to get
12:17information across. As well, they've got
12:19the job of trying to contact the
12:21audience. They've got this job of trying
12:23to hold themselves together while doing
12:25that. Their mind is in a thousand places
12:28trying to understand what might be
12:30happening
12:31with this kid here or, you know,
12:33regardless of what emotion she's doing
12:36or isn't doing, it's super simple what's
12:39going on. It's too simple as far as I'm
12:42concerned. Now, often what we get is
12:44with this collision of emotions, it's
12:46quite complex and and often observers
12:49will look at it and go, "Ah, there's
12:50something up there." There's something
12:52up because it's not easily
12:53understandable. I usually expect it to
12:56not be easily understandable because
12:59this is a situation that no human being
13:02on the planet has rehearsed for. They
13:04haven't had that moment of, "Well, you
13:06know what? When my kids go missing,
13:08here's how I'll handle my feelings.
13:10Here's how I'll understand this
13:12situation." Well, she's handling herself
13:14in a very simplistic way here. That
13:17rings alarm bells for me. Uh that's all
13:19I got on that one. Have we all We've all
13:20been?
13:21Yeah.
13:22Good.
13:24I want going to my babies,
13:28that your mama loves you so much. And
13:31your daddy this whole family loves you
13:33so much.
13:36And you guys have got to be strong.
13:39Because you are we we
13:41I just know
13:43I just feel in my heart you're okay, but
13:46you got to take care of each other.
13:50And your mom and dad are going to be
13:51right here waiting on you when you get
13:52home.
13:55Sources close to the investigation,
13:57Susan, uh
13:58Tippett told NBC News that federal
14:00agents are focusing, in fact, on the
14:02relationship between you and Mitchell
14:05Sinclair, the the man that you were
14:06going to visit that night, the man you
14:08said you were going to visit with your
14:10children.
14:11Uh they've told NBC that there were
14:13inconsistencies
14:15in your stories. Do you know what
14:16inconsistencies uh they were referring
14:18to?
14:19Uh no, ma'am, I really do not know that.
14:22Um
14:23All right. Chase, what do you got?
14:26Yeah, we see her stop herself from
14:28smiling here,
14:30which is
14:31pretty unusual. There is some pucker,
14:34some lip compression, there's licking,
14:36uh there's lip retraction going on here,
14:39which suggests all kinds of crap. But
14:42one thing I really want to pick on
14:44is watch her blink rate
14:47from before she hears the word
14:49relationship, when she actually learns
14:52what the question is about.
14:54And watch the change in blink rate
14:56before the word relationship, and then
14:58after the word relationship, and you
15:00will see a perfect example of what we
15:03always talk about.
15:04Federal agents are focusing, in fact, on
15:06the relationship between you and
15:08Mitchell Sinclair, the the man that you
15:11were going to visit that night, the man
15:12you said you were going to visit with
15:14your children.
15:14And there's also some hesitancy here,
15:16there's this qualifier where she uses
15:18the word really in the middle of her
15:20denial.
15:21No, ma'am, really did not know that.
15:23There's a non-contraction, but please
15:25keep in mind
15:26we just saw an example of her most
15:28likely being truthful with a
15:30non-contraction.
15:32And there's also some double access to
15:35internal dialogue to craft an answer.
15:37And that would mean that there's
15:38accessing to internal dialogue, remaking
15:41eye contact, and then going back down
15:43again in quick succession.
15:46Uh which is also a pretty large red
15:48flag. And we know this is deceptive
15:50already, so I'll give my answer at 100%.
15:53How about that?
15:55Scott, what do you think?
15:57All right. I thought when she said um
16:00do you know what inconsistencies
16:03what what inconsistencies were made or
16:05whatever, I thought she's going to say,
16:06"Do you know what inconsistencies
16:08means?"
16:08Yeah.
16:09I swear to god. And I laughed so hard
16:11after that cuz I thought she was talking
16:12down to her.
16:13Anyway, at the top we see her lips,
16:16you're right, Chase. We see lip pursing,
16:17we see retraction, we see all kinds of
16:19things in there. Because what she's
16:21talking about she's she's it it's
16:24catching her a little bit off guard cuz
16:25she brings up the guy she's seeing. She
16:27want to hear about that? But at the same
16:30right before that she says something
16:31that makes it that this like, "Yeah."
16:33Makes her feel like, you know, that's
16:34okay because she smiles at that point.
16:36It's not duping delight because at that
16:38point she's not saying anything where
16:40she's duping anybody. But we we there's
16:43a whole lot going on there. So, and
16:44especially when she gets back to the to
16:46the the part about the guy she's going
16:48to see, watch there cuz we see full-on a
16:51lip pursing there. And that and that
16:54indicates that the that that person is
16:57doesn't agree with what's being said,
16:58and she sees it as a threat.
17:00Also, when you see her eyes darting
17:02around, that indicates the person is
17:05going through and um
17:07processing the threat, processing
17:09whatever's being said, and getting and
17:11getting ready to as they structure their
17:13answer for that threat. That's what
17:15we're looking at there.
17:16Um
17:17that's that's all I got on that one.
17:19Craig, what do you got?
17:20Yeah, that eye that eye movement can
17:22mean that she is processing information.
17:24It can also mean that she is looking for
17:26an answer to something that she doesn't
17:28have. I mean,
17:29she's prepared for all this stuff and
17:30she's probably got something she wants
17:32to say. There's also a high likelihood
17:35in her case that she can't hold a
17:36thought long enough to answer that
17:38question because if you watch how she
17:39behaves, she rambles and does whatever
17:42and then throws out something.
17:44Here's what's interesting. She's a low
17:46horsepower romancer because most
17:48romancers when they look at you, they
17:49make really good eye contact. She'll say
17:51something and make really quick eye
17:52contact and then break away again.
17:55Probably something that's a learned
17:56behavior. She was in an abusive
17:57childhood and that kind of thing. So,
17:59there's probably some of that not making
18:00really solid eye contact. Um, but that
18:03actual smile that she tries to hide is
18:05when she's thinking about this
18:06relationship or something comes up and
18:08then she breaks eye contact and does
18:10that tongue jut again. Is she going into
18:12memory? Is there something going on?
18:14Because then her blink rate goes through
18:15the roof, her breathing goes up and she
18:17does that nervous confirming nod about
18:19the guy. So, it makes me think she's got
18:21some kind of positive thing going on in
18:23her head about the guy but then
18:25realizes, "Oh, oh, oh, oh, that was the
18:26wrong thing to do." Makes quick eye
18:28contact and does that the nod.
18:31She does a mouth grimace and when she
18:33says, "No, ma'am." her brows flash.
18:35No, ma'am. I really do not know that.
18:37We only see this eyebrow flash when she
18:40is doing something that's negative so
18:42far as far as I can tell. Mark, what do
18:44you got?
18:45Yes, so I agree. There is a complexity
18:46of emotions happening here which she
18:48hasn't rehearsed for delivering or
18:52controlling in any way. So, I think this
18:54idea of the boyfriend that comes up and
18:58and it there's a a real emotion that
19:01comes with that and she doesn't know
19:03what to do with that and she suppresses
19:06that delight. And it would be so easy to
19:09go to see that as duper's delight but
19:12Scott, you're absolutely right. This is
19:14not dupers delight because it's the
19:16suppression of a real feeling of her
19:19imagining her boyfriend and she hasn't
19:21she hadn't prepared for this question in
19:23any way. So, there's this huge kind of
19:26collision in many ways.
19:28Uh you know, this is her being very real
19:31with us because she's not good when not
19:34rehearsed of being simple enough and
19:37controlling her feelings. So, we get
19:40that suppression of delight and then she
19:43lets it out. She hasn't fully managed to
19:45suppress it. We get the lip lick.
19:48There's a lot of swallowing goes on
19:49there.
19:50Um
19:51non-contractions, polite as well. So,
19:54some elements that we've seen before. Uh
19:57yeah, I think that's all I have to say
19:58about that one.
20:00Sources close to the investigation,
20:01Susan, uh
20:03have told NBC News that federal agents
20:05are focusing in fact on the relationship
20:07between you and Mitchell St. Claire that
20:10the man that you were going to visit
20:12that night, the man you said you were
20:13going to visit with your children. Uh
20:16they've told NBC that there were
20:17inconsistencies
20:19in your stories. Do you know what
20:21inconsistencies uh they were referring
20:23to?
20:24Uh no, ma'am. I really do not know that.
20:27Um
20:28Right now, we want to go to Union to get
20:29the story first hand from Susan Smith
20:32and her husband, David.
20:34Susan, how are you doing this morning?
20:36Uh doing okay. Uh very little sleep last
20:39night, but I'm okay.
20:41There was uh some news yesterday and and
20:43some promising leads uh in this case.
20:47Uh how are how are you coping with the
20:49disappointment of the news from
20:50yesterday?
20:51Um it was um
20:54I was running around um my house
20:55yesterday morning all excited. I really
20:57thought that they had uh had had really
20:59found something that
21:01was I really thought they'd found one of
21:03my children and um
21:05when I got to the courthouse and found
21:07out that the lead had
21:09disintegrated or there was nothing
21:11there, I was very devastated, very
21:13disappointed. Uh
21:15got my hopes up and was let down, but I
21:18haven't given up hope.
21:21You know, that was
21:23uh maybe one of many disappointments,
21:25but maybe the next going to uh
21:29be be right.
21:31Mark, what do you got?
21:33Yeah, so she's very focused on her
21:35feelings, and I'll go through those in a
21:37moment. But, I want to give her Well,
21:39not some credit, but but put it in the
21:41context of
21:43there's two pretty bad questions that
21:46come forward in this. The first one is,
21:49"How are you doing?" So, the interviewer
21:51has asked for her
21:53emotion. So, we could kind of go, "Well,
21:55of course, she's going to give her
21:57feelings cuz that's what she was asked."
22:00And I'll come to that in a moment. And
22:02then he goes, "Well, how are you coping
22:05with the disappointment?" So, he even
22:07delivers her a feeling to attach to.
22:11I would say terrible interviewing there
22:15unless you want to lead somebody into
22:18stating those emotions. Now, of course,
22:20she does. She says, "Very little sleep,
22:23excited,
22:24devastated, disappointed." So, she lays
22:27in what she's been asked for. Hopes up,
22:30let down, many disappointments. And she
22:33kind of ends on on that. So, she's been
22:35a little bit led on that. Now, having
22:39said all of that, what I do notice in
22:42interviews with people who are not the
22:45culprit, the perpetrator, the criminal
22:47in this sense is you can lead them into
22:50emotions, and they instantly go to
22:53uh you know, they don't necessarily say,
22:55"This is not about me." But, they take
22:57it off them, and they naturally get on
23:00to
23:01uh find my kids. They will get onto the
23:04kids immediately. She doesn't find her
23:06way there. She is led into her feelings
23:10and being self-centered. So, there is
23:12that going for her, but she should be
23:14able to find her way out of that. And
23:17she doesn't. Greg, what have you got on
23:18this one?
23:19Yeah, let's talk about leading her into
23:21something.
23:22When you see her left eye accessing this
23:24time, that's not her making up
23:25something, that's her repeating a word
23:27she has heard. Disintegrate is not a
23:29word she uses. That's a word that that
23:31one of the investigators said, "Oh, oh,
23:33that lead disintegrated." That's the way
23:35they got her in to talk to her, just
23:36about guaranteed.
23:38Look at her, this is what I'm talking
23:39about, she's braced. She's in a fighting
23:40position. By that I mean, when you're in
23:42the army, you dig a hole, you get in
23:44there, you get your rifle, and you
23:45defend yourself. She's braced. She's
23:47locked back in the chair. She's
23:49barrier-ed. She's got what I call egg
23:52protector. In men, we call it the fig
23:53leaf, we we cross our primary sex
23:55organs. She's crossed her arm in front
23:57of her abdomen. And she's locked down
24:00with her husband there, and she's
24:01twitching fingers and doing all kinds of
24:04adapters.
24:05Her blink rate is through the roof, and
24:07she's braced for whatever you're going
24:08to ask her. She's ready for this whole
24:10thing.
24:11She gets pressure.
24:13And she does something we've only seen
24:14one other time on the entire behavior
24:16panel show, and that's she does this
24:18pressured release of words at the end.
24:21She's feeling pressure, she rambles, and
24:23when she's done, she didn't edit. So,
24:25she's got words left over that mean
24:27nothing.
24:27You know, that was
24:29uh maybe one of many disappointments,
24:31but maybe the next going to um
24:35be be right.
24:37Something is wrong right there. Be right
24:38with those leftover words. Something's
24:40wrong. She had a plan what she was going
24:41to say, and it didn't come out
24:42correctly. She tries to redirect. And if
24:45you look, and you really want to think
24:46about what would a person like this look
24:48like, they wouldn't be pushed back
24:50against the chair if they've been
24:51through all this trauma. They would look
24:52like him.
24:54He's shocky. You can see his brain can't
24:57comprehend what's going on. Never mind
24:59the TV camera might be part of it, but
25:01she has none of that. It's all just her.
25:04It's all just her telling whatever story
25:06she came there for, and the only place
25:07we see it's that pressure in the end and
25:09her using the wrong words. Uh Chase,
25:11what do you got?
25:13Yeah, so I think uh
25:15she starts this video off in stress. Her
25:18respirations are around 20 to 23.
25:22Her blink rate is at around 60. And keep
25:25in mind, the average blink rate is like
25:2713, 15, somewhere in there. Everybody's
25:29a little different.
25:32Her
25:33she uses a 3:00 eye movement to answer
25:36this question. So, her eyes go to your
25:393:00 as you're watching it, which is her
25:41baseline. So, that's her baseline. She's
25:43probably genuinely recalling how she
25:45feels for just a moment here. But, I
25:48think her thumb is a great, reliable
25:50indicator, and she's using her thumb as
25:52a pacifier a little bit with her
25:54husband. But, with the the biggest red
25:57flag in this entire interview in its
25:59entirety
26:00is her saying, "I think they they might
26:03have found one of my children."
26:06I really thought they found one of my
26:07children.
26:08Her just saying that is a huge indicator
26:11that this is something is way off in
26:14this.
26:16And then there's a uh
26:18super increase in blink rate right when
26:20she says, "One of my children."
26:23I think she either realized she made a
26:24mistake or that topic alone caused her
26:26some stress.
26:28Uh you can decide that.
26:30But, there's some internal dialogue
26:32where her eyes are going down this
26:33direction to describe her uh
26:36disappointment.
26:38But, I think what's interesting to see
26:40the whole picture here
26:41is that this is a woman hoping her
26:44children are never found, trying to show
26:47excitement for children being found, and
26:49then disappointment that they were not
26:52found
26:53at the same time.
26:55So, there's a whole lot going on and
26:56we're seeing a lot of mixed emotions. I
26:58think that's one of the reasons we're
26:59seeing a lot of this strange unusual
27:02behavior going on here because I think
27:04the husband here
27:06uh might still be a little hopeful and
27:09might still be a little scared or might
27:11be starting to suspect the person
27:12sitting beside him, which is another
27:14reason for him to be frozen still in
27:16this video.
27:18Uh Mark, what do you got?
27:20Uh I went.
27:21All right, good. That was a test.
27:23I passed.
27:24Let's be Scott, I think.
27:26What do you got?
27:26me.
27:27All right. Uh let's take a look at her
27:29thumbs. Where are in this her thumbs?
27:31She's She's over there in that She's
27:32adapting like a you know what on that
27:34guy, man. Just pulling her hand and
27:36pulling his hand and and squeezing it
27:38and doing her thumb up and down. That's
27:40an adapter. She's trying to get rid of
27:41that built-up stress or tension she's
27:43feeling at that time. And she's under a
27:45lot of stress. We know that because
27:46she's really still. She looks like
27:48somebody just walked in and said, "What
27:49are you doing?" And she's like, "What?
27:50Nothing. What are you doing?" And she's
27:52in the middle of doing something she
27:53shouldn't be doing. You're right, her
27:54blink rate is high. It goes through
27:56there and starts tick tick tick tick
27:57tick tick. I just did it, Greg. But her
28:00her blink rate goes way up. So, she's
28:03under attack and she's feeling that
28:04threat. That's another reason she's
28:05really really still. Um that's that odd
28:09smile at the top. That's she she doesn't
28:11know that's not the thing to do.
28:13Uh that's why we're seeing that. And
28:14this And this video we're seeing her her
28:17nostrils are flared
28:19uh more than any other video up to this
28:21point. I mean, they're almost the whole
28:22time they're wide open taking in that
28:24oxygen. Her fight or flight's on because
28:25she's under attack and she and she knows
28:28that. So, all these things we're talking
28:30about here, we're seeing all the
28:31distress. She's extremely stressed at
28:33this point. And when she starts talking
28:35about uh hoping the children are okay
28:38and they find at least one and all that,
28:40that she I think that's dawning on her
28:42as it's coming out that that's that's
28:44odd to be to be talking like that. And I
28:46agree with you, Chase. You're seeing a
28:47lot of things going on
28:49uh about what she's thinking right
28:51there. And she's thinking about one
28:53thing as she's talking about something
28:54else, but trying to make it look like
28:55something else. That's uh that's a great
28:58find. But all that leads to stress. So
29:01we're we're just seeing somebody If you
29:02want to see somebody under a lot of
29:03stress, take a look at her at this
29:04point.
29:05All right.
29:05Just keep watching.
29:07Yeah.
29:08Right now we want to go to Union to get
29:10the story first hand from Susan Smith
29:12and her husband David.
29:14Susan, how are you doing this morning?
29:16Uh doing okay. Uh very little sleep last
29:19night, but I'm okay.
29:22There was uh some news yesterday and and
29:24some promising leads uh in this case. Uh
29:28how are how are you coping with the
29:29disappointment of the news from
29:31yesterday?
29:32Um it was um
29:34I was running around uh my house
29:36yesterday morning all excited. I really
29:37thought that they had uh had had really
29:40found something that
29:42was I really thought they found one of
29:43my children and um
29:46when I got to the coal house and found
29:47out that the lead had um
29:50disintegrated or when there was nothing
29:51there, I was very devastated, very
29:53disappointed. Um
29:55got my hopes up and was let down, but uh
29:58I haven't given up hope. Uh you know,
30:02that was
30:03uh maybe one of many disappointments,
30:05but maybe the next going to um
30:09be be right.
30:11David, the question that that arises and
30:14and people who have been following this
30:15so closely and and certainly you have to
30:17know how much emotion that this is has
30:19generated across the country is why
30:22someone who would be interested in in in
30:26carjacking or or stealing a car would
30:28want to continue to to take a couple of
30:31little kids with them. Have Have you
30:33been able to fathom that or or could you
30:35think of why someone would want to
30:37kidnap a couple of little kids unless
30:39there was some ransom or something
30:41involved.
30:44No, I have no idea why
30:47the suspect has why he even took the
30:50children and why he has not released
30:52them yet. We have no knowledge
30:53whatsoever.
30:55All right.
30:58Wait a minute. I'll say it. I was going
30:59to do it, man.
31:02All right.
31:04I'm still going to do it. All right,
31:06Chase, what do you got? All right, Greg,
31:07what do you got?
31:10All right, Mark, what do you
31:13She's going to pass out if she keeps
31:15this interview up. She's in a place
31:16where her respiration is fluttering now.
31:18You can't miss it. I mean, you watch her
31:21her her breathing rate. I didn't count,
31:23but I'm going to guess it's somewhere
31:24around 40. That's pretty fast. It might
31:26even be higher than that. Chase, you
31:28probably counted.
31:29She's licking. She's grooming her mouth.
31:31All this stress is now caught up with
31:33her. Her eyes are down down to the right
31:35and then back up and then when he says,
31:37my favorite in the whole thing, and I'll
31:38leave it at that, when he says,
31:41"Well, we don't know."
31:44Her mouth moves.
31:45We have no knowledge whatsoever.
31:47Children, if you have a child and you
31:49don't teach them not to when they color,
31:51they'll go
31:53because when we're thinking and working
31:55out something, we move our mouths.
31:57Mammals do. It's just what we do.
31:59Horses do it. Dogs All All of us move
32:01our mouths a lot, but humans, when
32:03they're little children, will do it all
32:04the time. And I think that's leakage in
32:06her case of "Well, maybe." I think she's
32:09trying to figure out what she's going to
32:10say to make that
32:12come to the next level. If she were in a
32:14chair, I think we'd see pre-confession
32:15movement. She would start changing her
32:17body style here. Uh Scott, what do you
32:19got?
32:21I got 10 bucks that says somebody's
32:22going to make a GIF of you doing that
32:23with your mouth a second ago.
32:25I think within a week it'll be on
32:27Instagram. You know, they won't take
32:28bets on that.
32:29I'll go to I'll go to 50 bucks.
32:31I know where you live.
32:33I know.
32:35Anyway, so that's going
32:36shows up at your with a chain and drags
32:38your Traverse around, it wasn't me.
32:41Yeah. Ever tell you and so, go out and
32:44get something else.
32:46So, at this at this point I think her
32:48fight or flight is is the highest it's
32:49been so far. She's panicking as this guy
32:51is talking because she's thinking, "Is
32:53he going to say something that's going
32:53to get me in trouble? Is he going to say
32:55something
32:55something that that I'm not ready for
32:57that I can't defend at this point?" Her
32:59blink rate is through the roof and her
33:01nasal nostrils are flared again. We said
33:04one more time. I think her fight or
33:05flight is through the roof. Mark, what
33:07do you got?
33:08Yeah, I think you're right. I I think we
33:10actually see her ramp up in this. I
33:12mean, she starts pretty high and she
33:14goes up higher. And I think it's because
33:16her her partner here, I guess it's her
33:18husband, um uh
33:20really starts kneading into her her
33:23muscle tissue there. Uh because he is
33:26not prepared for this at all. He's in
33:29high anxiety. That is a strong signal
33:33for her. She I think is now going,
33:36"Well, this guy is out of control." So,
33:38just as you said there, Scott, "What's
33:40he going to say? Is he reliable?" And I
33:44think her breathing rate ramps up even
33:46further at at that moment there. So,
33:49always great to see the combinations
33:52that happen. Not just focus on one
33:54individual, but how's the partnership
33:56working? Just as I think it was Scott
33:59was saying earlier, you know, that in
34:01that video um that I don't think we can
34:03see, but he was saying, "Look, you know,
34:05if you look around the subject, you get
34:08to understand the subject. Look at the
34:11partnership that's happening here to
34:13understand the subject." Chase, what do
34:16you got on this one?
34:17Yeah, I love that. So, let's really
34:19quickly touch on nostril flaring or wing
34:22dilation, as we call it. We have an
34:25adrenaline spike that produces an an
34:28equally high demand for oxygen. And when
34:30you're trying to conceal your need for
34:32oxygen cuz most of us will just open our
34:34mouth
34:35and openly breathe bigger.
34:37But when we're trying to conceal it, we
34:39use the nostril flaring unconsciously.
34:41Our brain just says, "Okay, dilate the
34:43nostrils if you're trying to keep your
34:44mouth shut to oxygenate the blood going
34:47to the brain primarily."
34:50I like that the perpetrator appears. The
34:53husband is asked and now there's a
34:54perpetrator. We even hear the word
34:56suspect, which is great. And he's using
34:59his wife as a pacifier
35:02throughout this thing. You can see him
35:04just kind of going crazy. And she I
35:06think she's stroking his hand to help
35:07calm him down and just kind of get him
35:10ready. Just remember what we talked
35:11about. Just kind of just go right along
35:13what we talked about.
35:15But I think there's a strong drop of the
35:17thumb of her thumb onto his hand at the
35:20end of his statement. Right when he's
35:21saying "No knowledge whatsoever."
35:24We have no knowledge whatsoever.
35:25But you're right, the blink rate and
35:28breathing spikes as he begins. So we
35:30actually in this clip, we're not seeing
35:32it super high. We're seeing it spike
35:35from the beginning. So we're getting to
35:37see it escalate. So you'll be able to
35:39see that and kind of train your brain to
35:40see that in your everyday life using
35:43this video as well. That's all I got.
35:46Dave, but the question that that arises
35:48in in people who have been following
35:49this so closely and and certainly you
35:51have to know how much emotion that this
35:53has has generated across the country is
35:56why someone who would be interested in
35:59in carjacking or or stealing a car would
36:03want to continue to to take a couple of
36:05little kids with them. Have Have you
36:07been able to fathom that or or could you
36:10think of why someone would want to
36:11kidnap a couple of little kids unless
36:14there was some ransom or something
36:15involved?
36:18No, I have no idea why
36:21the suspect has why he even took the
36:24children and why he has not released him
36:26yet, we have no knowledge whatsoever.
36:30So, what do you got?

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