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Call Deer The RIGHT WAY | Richard Fought — Transcript

by The Southern Outdoorsmen · 14,497 words · 1,916 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00you don't have to be good enough to get
0:02a a buck deer to walk inside of 40 yards
0:05or whatever your effective range is. Now
0:07you have the ability to put that deer
0:09there. So man, it opens up a a huge
0:11range of of hunting that way. You know,
0:14and for guys that are rifle hunting, it
0:16it's it's astronomically more
0:18successful, you know. You may go 10
0:20trips and not call one in that that one
0:23time. It's like a golf shot. It's like a
0:25it's like the perfect bow shot. Just
0:27like anything, once you see it work,
0:29once it happens, you're hooked.
0:34[Music]
0:43[Music]
0:56[Music]
0:59We've got to talk calling.
1:01>> I And I know we're on a time schedule,
1:03so
1:04>> yeah, we we got a little time. Let's
1:05talk calling.
1:05>> We we've we've got to talk. By the way,
1:07I love your advice though on on the
1:09confidence and the building success no
1:11matter what it is. Uh I think that's a
1:13huge aspect on life. Uh, but calling
1:17again, one of our most popular episodes
1:18we ever did with you or ever did period
1:20was your calling episode. Like Andrew
1:22mentioned earlier on had a ton of
1:23listening success stories come from it
1:25because you simplified calling
1:27specifically using a grunt call, but
1:28also rattling in a way that
1:32first off, I didn't have confidence
1:33calling before that. I thought it was
1:35spooking deer. And you kind of gave me
1:37some advice. We're going to talk about
1:38that. Uh, and I started doing it just
1:40around does doe's within bow range or
1:41just outside of bow range and it did not
1:43spook them one pit. I was like, "Oh,
1:45well spooking deer." I'm like, "Why not
1:47do it more and more and I started
1:48killing bucks by doing it." Um,
1:50actually, I've called in a bunch of deer
1:52the last four years. It's awesome, man.
1:54Confident.
1:55>> Yeah, exactly. So, um, I want you to
1:59talk to us a little bit about the
2:01evolution of calling for you. Like you
2:03kind of mentioned early on how you got
2:05that first grunt call, but how did you
2:07start implementing grunt call grunt call
2:09or using a grunt call and building
2:11confidence with it in the different
2:13timing of the season and the setups?
2:16>> Well, okay, it goes back to and I was
2:20probably fortunate enough to like I told
2:22you the first time, one of the very
2:24first hunts I ever had a a call and this
2:29call it pulled out. It was a m it was it
2:31was a tube call. It was square on both
2:33ends. You could pull it out and it was a
2:35mouthpiece. Hands-free call, but it was
2:38extremely
2:39quiet. It didn't have any volume. It
2:41didn't have a tube. I lost the tube. I
2:45lost the other half of it. So, all I had
2:47was the mouthpiece. All right. So, my
2:49calling probably stems from this an
2:52accident. Um
2:54I had watched I wish I could remember
2:56his name. His last name was Peterson. He
2:58was a Woodwise Calls. This was a wood
2:59was call and I'm and I'm talking now man
3:02I'm 53 years old I was 16 so years ago
3:08and I watched him call deer with this
3:10thing and I was like man that you know
3:12I've got to try that so so I don't even
3:13remember how I got my hands on the call
3:15because I wasn't smart enough at that
3:17time to order one they didn't sell them
3:18somehow I got my hands on one and
3:22like I said I I don't even the first
3:24hunt I went out I lo it come out and I
3:26lost the end of it so all I had was the
3:28little square mouth piece and it was
3:30like
3:32and that's all it would do. It just
3:33wouldn't do anything else. And I seen I
3:36was sitting on a fence row watching a um
3:39and and this was before I knew anything
3:41about feed trees or hunt. I was on I was
3:42on armadillo trail I'm certain you know
3:45cuz this buck did not come out this
3:47trail. You know I'm on this trail coming
3:49out of the woods and into this grass
3:50field and looking back on it I don't
3:53think there was deer trucks there. I
3:54think it was just a trail all game trail
3:56probably. But anyways, I I looked up and
3:59there was three, four, five, six doese's
4:02150 yards out in this grass field and
4:04and I'm hunting. I'm not hunting a buck.
4:05I'm at this this is my this is my very
4:07first year and I've killed that one at a
4:10you know I I shot the last one on and
4:13it's Christmas day and a friend of
4:15mine's dad carried us up there and they
4:17he was crossbow hunting and
4:21I was blowing this call at those dough
4:24and they couldn't hear it. You know, I
4:26was up there
4:28and and they couldn't hear it. Well,
4:30man, I hear just
4:32and it stops and I'm sitting there. I'm
4:34like and I hit this call. He gets a
4:36little square call and this dude comes.
4:39He I see him when I see him coming. He I
4:40thought it was a big dough. When I shot
4:42it, I thought it was a big dough to be
4:43honest with you. But he jumps he he
4:45comes charges. He's stomping through the
4:46first time I'd ever seen a buck do that.
4:48I didn't. Now, now I I know the sound,
4:50but back then it was just a deer coming
4:52out and he buck he popped right out this
4:54old lane I'm sitting on and and and I
4:56center punch him and thought it was a
4:58dough and you know I thought she came to
5:00that call you know that was cool and she
5:01did she popped he popped out there just
5:03looking around when I got to him he was
5:04about a three-year-old buck that's what
5:06they told me now I don't know where he
5:07was not we had to get him tagged back
5:09then we had to go to a tag station they
5:10said he was a three but he had one spike
5:12about that long and he was a big body
5:13deer compared to anything else that I'd
5:15killed cuz I think at that time maybe
5:16I'd only killed those and one or two
5:18other bucks with a shotgun, you know,
5:20jumping them in thickets. But that was
5:22my first buck with a bow was a one horse
5:24spike. And
5:26so,
5:28man, I went back out and blowed blow.com
5:30blow.com. And there wasn't grunt calls
5:32on the market at this time. And you
5:35know, nothing nothing. They wasn't
5:37hearing it. They couldn't, you know, I
5:38just got lucky and he was close enough
5:40to hear that call. Well, somewhere two,
5:44three years later, grunt calls kind of
5:45started coming out. Well, when you
5:50watched them blow them or you or
5:51anything about them, it was
5:54and I'd go out and I just I'd go out and
5:56get all the I used to hunt grass fields
5:58a lot. It was a lot of deer in those
5:59grass fields. I'd climb up in the grass
6:01field and I' I'd get up there and I'd
6:02get steel. I'd take my horns and I'd
6:04slam them together like I seen them do
6:06on TV or I was told and I'd see deer
6:07jump up and run 300 yards across that
6:09grass field. I said, "Well, that didn't
6:10work." you know, or I'd go to blowing
6:12that grunt call like they did at a at a
6:14deer standing out, you know, 150 yards
6:16out there and that dude throw his head
6:17up and he'd tuck and run. Well, I quit
6:19calling, too.
6:22Rocked along there about a year or
6:23something and I I just still I wanted to
6:24call. I wanted to call like, man, I I
6:26want to call. So, um got that I found me
6:31another one of those calls. Actually
6:32bought me a new one. I had lost that
6:33one. And I carried it out. And even with
6:35the tube, it was still not a loud call.
6:38It was it was way quieter than anything
6:40I was blowing. And I I I would I would
6:43blow it a lot, but I would blow it when
6:46I I saw deer and I noticed that, okay,
6:48when I
6:50the doe's would run, everything run.
6:52When I would blow this one, they weren't
6:54running, you know. So, I wasn't spooking
6:56deer. Now, they weren't coming. They
6:58wasn't not coming to me, but this call
6:59sounded a little funny. It didn't it it
7:02didn't have the tone it needed, but I
7:03didn't know that at the time, but I knew
7:05I wasn't spooking deer. So, I got my
7:07hands on my first custom call was a a a
7:10Hoots
7:13uh Hoot Bradley made it out of I think
7:15it was out of Tennessee if I'm not
7:16mistaken. But he ended up making me some
7:18TNU calls, putting a logo on it at one
7:20time. Uh but he he he somehow got my
7:23hands on one of his custom calls and I
7:25got to playing with that call and and
7:27man I had been around enough deer
7:29hunting feed trees at that time that I
7:31was hearing bucks just walk through the
7:32woods and
7:35that's all they was doing you know and
7:38so I got to doing that with with hoots
7:40call and man I could get it to sound
7:42good and I got to I would I would replay
7:44videos of of deer grunt on TV and I just
7:47you know just as turkey calls how I
7:48learned to blow a turkey call you know
7:49not that I'm real good one. But, you
7:51know, I I I learned because I would
7:53listen and I'd mimic it. Listen and
7:55mimic. And now when I'm in the woods
7:56with a hen, that's what I do is I mimic
7:58her. And so, man, I started blowing this
8:02call. And it sounded really good. And
8:05one of the first eight points, he was a
8:072-year-old eight point. He was 60 or 70
8:10yards out there. And I was I was and I
8:13just kept increasing that volume a
8:15little at a time until he finally
8:16stopped. That head popped up. And when
8:18that head popped up, I hit him one more
8:19time with the same volume and that dude
8:22turned and he come to me on a string. I
8:23shot him. I shot him almost straight
8:25down and
8:27it grew from there. It just and and I
8:29would still I'd catch myself wouldn't be
8:31out there too far and I' you know, and
8:34he he bust and go. And so as uh I got to
8:38blowing that call,
8:41I had a buck coming in one day. I had a
8:4312 15 18 does around me. They were
8:45feeding in there heavy. It was late in
8:47the year and I had a buck. It was
8:51121 12 22 inch deer. He was um one of my
8:55first almost poping young deer. Um and
8:58he was he was skirting me and I was
9:01wanting to blow the call but I was I had
9:02those 20 yards of me and man I just
9:05eased it around to him and I started
9:06just and I and watch and I finally got
9:10it loud enough he heard me. the doe's
9:11every once in a while throw their head
9:12up and they look around they'd go right
9:13back to feeding and I thought man I
9:15finally got him to hear it and he turned
9:17to come in I killed him and I thought
9:18okay I didn't spook these deer so I
9:20started doing that I started just
9:22playing with it when I would have deer
9:23in around and okay at what volume do
9:25they spook and then I found out okay
9:28that's that's that's my shut off we
9:30don't go past that we we try to stay
9:32under every once I'll get excited and
9:34overblow one but for the most part
9:36there's a there's a a volume there and
9:38it takes some practice learn I can't
9:39teach that And it takes playing with a
9:41call and cupping hands and that kind of
9:43and a lot of it depends on are how quiet
9:45is it today? You know, how far is this
9:47traveling in the am I in the wide open
9:48or am I in a thicket? So, but once you
9:51figure that out and and you can call and
9:53not spook deer, man, there was something
9:56about calling it goes back to
9:57confidence. I had killed two or three
9:59bucks now with the call and I would go
10:02out and not be seeing anything and I'd
10:04be hearing squirrels and stuff and you'd
10:06be like, "Man's that deer squirrel." I
10:07don't know. And I hadn't killed a big
10:09deer. But when I blew that call and I
10:11heard anything in my mind, oh, that's a
10:14big one. You know, so your heart's
10:15elevated. You're you're standing up.
10:16You're on alert. And whether you kill
10:19one or not, you remember that feeling
10:21and you want that feeling again. And so,
10:24man, that's how calling I I just
10:27wouldn't go to I just wouldn't go and
10:28not blow it. And I I figured out, okay,
10:31I really can't call deer from October
10:34the 1st till in in Arkansas. For me, it
10:37was pretty much
10:40Halloween, the end of October, and then
10:42I started having success through boy,
10:44November the 10th, you know, the
10:46November the 1st through the 10th. In
10:48some areas I was hunting, it was just I
10:50could call in three, four, five bucks a
10:52day. Well, other areas it was it was
10:55December when I started doing it. And
10:58then I started implementing that into I
11:01wanted to rattle. I was like, man, I I
11:02see them do it on TV. I want to do it.
11:04And everybody we was watching was in
11:06Texas and Midwest and they was banging
11:08horns together. Well, every time I did
11:09it, my deer ran. And I was sitting in a
11:12tree one afternoon and I watched two
11:16135 140 two of the biggest deer I'd ever
11:18seen at this time fight. They got in a
11:20fight about 55 60 yards from me. Back
11:23then I shoot 30 yards, you know. And I
11:26watched these deer fight for seven or
11:28eight or 10 minutes. And all I ever
11:30heard these I remember my two big bucks.
11:33I could hear them pushing. I could hear
11:35sticks popping. And every once in a
11:37while I would hear click click click
11:39click or I'd hear them pop loose and
11:42then they'd go back together and you'd
11:43hear them bump. And then it was it was
11:45just click click click click. And I
11:47thought, man, I I got my horns out. I
11:49got my as soon as they left, I got my
11:51horns out. I started I started trying to
11:52do that. And instead of banging them
11:55together and rattling them like this, I
11:57put those horns together. I got them,
11:59you know, two inches apart and I hit
12:00them pop. And then I just grind them. I
12:03just make them slip. All I do is just
12:05put a lot of pressure on the two and
12:06make them pop. And I would I would make
12:10I was making a noise every 45 seconds to
12:13a minute. You'd hear them pop, grind.
12:15And the rest of the time you might not
12:17could even hear them. And then I'd slide
12:18them apart and I'd slide them back
12:19together and and I started calling deer.
12:21Well, I started doing it when I had deer
12:23out there at 100 yards. I wasn't
12:25spooking deer. So now I can rattle and I
12:28can grunt with no fear of spooking deer
12:31and so it's not costing me deer on my
12:33hunt. So now I do it all the time. And
12:37man, deer's like people. You know,
12:39there's passive people, men in this
12:42world that you couldn't get to come to
12:44a, you know, a juke box, a cold beer or
12:46or a fight. And then there's some that's
12:48going to run to it. And you know, every
12:50once in a while that old that old that
12:52right buck come by and he he you know,
12:54now they circled in and that's where my
12:56sink control come in. I was getting
12:57busted and that kind of stuff and I
12:58figured all of that out. But you
13:02there there's something that I I do know
13:04about calling.
13:07You take people, let's just say Clifton,
13:09he's super aggressive. Clifton kills one
13:11or two deer a year by calling men.
13:14Clifton will call in two or three deer a
13:17year. I was calling in 30. All right.
13:20Clifton called. He found that one that
13:22would charge straight in. He didn't
13:24circle. He didn't do nothing. That that
13:26that's he's a foury old deer and he's a
13:28mean and and he charges straight in.
13:30Clifton kills him. And I was having
13:33success calling multiple deer a year
13:35because I had my scent control right.
13:37And I was calling passively is what I
13:39call it. And and so I was getting deer
13:42slipping in on the backside coming in
13:43checking it out. Every once in a while
13:45I'd have a big deer come in
13:48slightly, you know, cut in the wind or
13:50something. For the most part, they
13:51always circled. Um, and there is a so
13:54there is a difference in the people that
13:56that if if the people that are calling
13:58aggressive and when they kill one, if
13:59they'll pay attention, that was an
14:01aggressive deer. That deer came charging
14:02in, ears pinned. My deer come in
14:04feeding. They act like they didn't hear
14:06the call. They're, you know, they
14:08they're looking, but they're still doing
14:10their thing. And then I noticed some of
14:12the deer that I would call in when I
14:13would would get aggressive or I would
14:15see one out there and I would just see
14:16what happened. I get aggressive that
14:18deer pin his ears and he'd come stomping
14:19in bristled up. I killed a 131 in
14:22sixpoint. He's he's 22 in wide and he's
14:26got 13inch G2s. And that deer I seen
14:30that deer out there and I I I couldn't
14:31get him to pay attention to me and I was
14:32fixing to get down and go to work and I
14:34slammed the horns together and hit that
14:36call and he throwed that head up and he
14:38come he ran to me as hard as he could
14:39run. He run up there. I thought he's a
14:41big eight-point honestly. And he he come
14:43running straight in at me. And when he
14:45run in there, he he he turned 10 11
14:47yards and I shot him and I seen him as a
14:49sixpoint, but I didn't care. I mean, he
14:50was he was a big old four or five year
14:51old deer and he was he was a beautiful
14:53deer. But that deer didn't think about
14:55doing anything but coming. He was
14:56looking for a fight. And so
15:00there's
15:02those aggressive deer that come to
15:03aggressive calling, I think. And then if
15:05you if you're worried about calling, you
15:06want confidence in it. If you call
15:09quiet, you call passively, you figure
15:11out, okay, what volume can I blow and
15:13not spook deer? At what level can I
15:15rattle and not spook deer, then you can
15:17set out there and you may go 10 trips
15:20and not call one in that that one time.
15:23It's like a golf shot. It's like a It's
15:25like the perfect bow shot. It's like
15:27anything. Once you see it work, once it
15:29happens, you're hooked. It it it's it
15:32and now you know that, okay, I have
15:33something in my arsenal that that will
15:36work. It will call deer. And there's no
15:38reason for me not to use it because I'm
15:40not spooking deer with it. You know, I'm
15:41I've got deer feeding 80 yards out
15:43there. I'm I'm hitting a grunt call. I'm
15:45rubbing horns together. I'm scratching a
15:46tree. They'll look up, don't move when
15:48they look up. Let them go right back to
15:49doing it. And and
15:52now you've expanded your range. Now you
15:55don't you don't have to be good enough
15:58to get a a buck deer to walk inside of
16:0140 yards or whatever your effective
16:03range is. Now you have the ability to
16:05put that deer there. So, man, it opens
16:07up a a huge range of of hunting that
16:10way, you know, and for guys that are
16:11rifle hunting, it it's it's
16:13astronomically more successful, you
16:15know, because that I don't know how many
16:17deer I called in that that, you know, I
16:19just did not get a shot at because they
16:21were too thick, too much cover, you
16:23know, just didn't come all the way in or
16:25something with a rifle I could have, you
16:26know, taken easily. So, you know, guys
16:28that do rifle or muzzle loader hunt,
16:30it's a it's a it's a a tool that can
16:33exponentially raise success.
16:35>> Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I wanted to
16:37mention is we we've heard this and I
16:39think it's really common in the deep
16:41south where like you'll hear some guys
16:43like, "Man, grunting doesn't work,
16:45rattling doesn't work. That's all
16:47Midwest stuff." And I think it's cuz a
16:50lot of guys have tried like what you did
16:52saw these guys in the Midwest being
16:54crazy aggressive, loud grunting, uh,
16:56loud rattling, and they try down south
16:59and they scared the fire out of
17:00everything. And when I started when I
17:03first interview or we interviewed at
17:05that time again this is five years ago
17:08probably and we did that calling episode
17:10I started implementing that in the last
17:12four years has been phenomenal and just
17:14by doing like what you're talking about
17:15and we're going to get a little bit more
17:16into how you actually grind I know you
17:18got your grunt call with you but the
17:20style of grunting how you can do you can
17:23still attract deer from a decent
17:24distance you know easily 200 yards
17:26depending on your cover and even again
17:28blind calling which we're going to talk
17:29about blind calling a whole bunch and be
17:31able to get a deer to come in that might
17:33have just went right by you. Maybe you
17:35were just off the X and he had something
17:37else on his mind, but he heard it. He
17:38came in and investigated. Um, and same
17:41thing with the rattling. I actually
17:42killed my first deer ever rattling two
17:44seasons ago in Alabama. Um, and it was
17:47phenomenal. He came in thrashing a tree
17:49right in front of me. I was sitting on
17:49the ground now was with a muzzler, but
17:51shot him at 25 yards once he came off
17:53that ridge point. Um, so with the the
17:56grunting, talk to us a little bit about
18:00now how do you grunt? How have you
18:01grunted what you kind of figured out
18:03this formula of what was working for
18:05you? Like how often and then maybe
18:08demonstrate what the grunt sounds like
18:10and looks like because I think a lot of
18:12people they might have something in
18:14their mind. It may not be exactly what
18:15they're thinking.
18:17[Applause]
18:18I I
18:22every 10 minutes. Sometimes I call for
18:2430 minutes straight. I'll put that call.
18:26There's a lot of times I'm I'm ADHD. I
18:29get bored easily. This is something that
18:32I can do. It makes me proactive in a
18:34stand. And like I said, you don't ever
18:37know when the next time you hit it
18:39because during a rut you it and it it
18:42works so much better uh pre-rut and
18:45postrut. Um, now we'll touch on the rut.
18:48Uh, that deer right there, I actually
18:51called the dough that I think this is
18:53what my my opinion of what happened was.
18:56He was running a dough hard. He had run
18:58her he had run her out. He was running
18:59her out along the swamp and he had run
19:01her he was running her hard and I knew
19:04he wasn't going to pay attention to me
19:05and I was blowing and blow and she
19:06stopped and I just happened to be fixing
19:09to blow the call and I blowed and she
19:11turned and ran as straight to me as she
19:13could run. And a after breaking I shot
19:16him at the base of my tree. I mean
19:17straight down. And after after breaking
19:20and I'm that guy that when I have
19:21success or I have failure, why did I
19:24have that? Why what happened? What what
19:26was the defining factor in in in that?
19:29So I kept piecing that together and I
19:32was like, okay, what happened? I think
19:35that she wasn't in heat. He was running
19:38her. When she heard me blow that call,
19:40she thought I was another buck. in her
19:42mind, she'll run that buck by me. The
19:45two bucks will get in a fight. She'll
19:47run away. I've had that happen three or
19:49four more times in life to where I
19:51finally got the dough to hear me and she
19:53turned and come straight to me and well,
19:56he's coming too, you know. So, I think
19:58when that happens, it's and that was an
20:00aggressive call. That was a loud me
20:02getting attention. He wasn't paying any
20:04attention to me, but I think she's not
20:05ready to breed and she thinks, "Okay,
20:08I'm going to run by him and I'm going to
20:10get these two bucks and fight and get
20:11away." That's that's kind of what I come
20:13up with on that. And but when I'm just
20:16sitting out there and it's
20:18a cold front's pushed in mid-occtober
20:20and it depends on you need to know when
20:22your pre- rudd is because you if you go
20:24out there and you're calling if you're
20:25calling when early season you're
20:28probably not going to have success when
20:31when it gets right and you know you're
20:33pro I tell everybody when I start seeing
20:35I start grunting the moment I start
20:37seeing bucks walking with their nose to
20:39the ground or I start finding little
20:42scrapes the moment bucks start being
20:45bucky, then I'll start blowing a call.
20:47Now, and I blow it often and I what I do
20:51is just
20:55[Music]
21:03I try to mimic one moving um and I try
21:06to throw that because I don't have much
21:08volume to it. I'm trying to throw it.
21:10You can do that with a call that and all
21:13calls don't sound bucky. You got to have
21:14a call that sounds bucky. And and that's
21:16a that's a custom call. One of the first
21:18ones at Haiti Bo ever gave me. There's a
21:19lot of custom call makers that make good
21:21calls. You need to find one, play with
21:23it till you get it to make that noise.
21:25Just just pull up bucks grunting on
21:27YouTube. Listen to it and listen to how
21:29they do it. Don't you can you can find
21:31them ones that
21:35watch a 100 videos and see see how 98 of
21:37them do their
21:41they're just walking through the woods
21:43with that grunt. It's it's it's a
21:45tending grunt. It's a
21:48and I say that and a lot of times it's
21:50not because bucks do it when they're not
21:51tending. They're just walking through
21:52the woods doing it. But I don't think
21:54other bucks really know. And a lot of
21:56times, you know, is it an intruder in my
21:58place? Is there a dough over there? I'm
22:01not sure what makes it work. And it's
22:03probably a different in a different
22:05situation in a different book. What I do
22:07know is that it works. And when you blow
22:09that call like that
22:12and and I I'll tell anybody that's
22:14skeptical, everybody, if you want to
22:15call and you're scared, take that call.
22:17Learn to blow it.
22:21Start calling at doze. Go go go go go to
22:23a corn pile and and go to a bean field.
22:26Go somewhere you can see deer. Set up to
22:28where you know you're not going to spook
22:29them and start start low volume and
22:32start climbing it. You'll know when they
22:34hear you. That head will pop. They'll
22:35look. All right. Stay at that volume
22:38three, four, five, 10 grunts. If that
22:40deer doesn't if they don't spook, they
22:42don't do anything. Start increasing that
22:44volume and watch where they run. All
22:46right. Do that four or five times and
22:48then you know that you go.
22:51All right. That's really spook. All
22:53right, I've I raised the volume and I
22:55raised the length of the call. Okay, now
22:57I'm spooking deer. So, you stay short
23:01in low volume and it's just barely
23:03breathing through and it calls vary. But
23:05that's never going to spook deer. It
23:08gives you something to do while you're
23:09in a tree instead of play on a phone,
23:11which you know I'm, you know, I'm let
23:14two really good deer. I was eating
23:16chocolate chip cookies, homemade
23:17chocolate chip cookies one Thanksgiving
23:18morning and had a stud walk underneath
23:20me and I couldn't get my cookies. Had
23:21him in a Tupperware bowl. I couldn't get
23:23my cookies put up. Feet was propped up
23:25on the stand, you know, and he I just
23:27watch him walk off. There's nothing I
23:28can do. And I can't he didn't come back
23:31to the call. He just walked off. But and
23:33and I've had some get away where I was,
23:35you know, guilty of the cell phone
23:36thing, the Facebook, you know, back in
23:37Facebook days when I was on there all
23:39the time. And I'm telling how many I
23:40didn't even see or how many I didn't
23:42call because I was I wasn't I was at
23:44that point I was playing on Facebook and
23:46I would video my call. So I would call
23:49and then man when I'm calling I I'm I'm
23:53just I I never I never go 15 minutes
23:56without running it eight or 10 times.
23:59And I always start to one side and I go
24:01all the way around like that deer's
24:02walking. Um and then I'll come back
24:05around that way. But I mean there's
24:08times when I'll put I'll just put it in
24:10my mouth. I won't even hold it. I'll
24:11just put it there and I'll be like,
24:16you know, and I may blow it for 15 or 20
24:19minutes cuz I'm not spooking deer. And
24:21when you have bucks that when you see
24:24them walking, when they're nose to the
24:25ground and they're traveling, they're
24:26they're they're they're
24:28in that mode, you don't you don't you
24:31never know at what 10-minute interval
24:33that one's going to be 100 yards from
24:35you that you can't see. And if you're in
24:37wide open woods, it's not going to be
24:39effective. But if you can get around
24:41blowdowns, storm damage, creeks, field
24:44edges or or grass field edges, anything
24:47pine thicket, anything that gives you
24:48some cover. And cuz man, a 250lb buck
24:53deer can a 2-lb squirrel sound like an
24:56elephant. A 250lb buck deer slit by you
24:58and you never know he's there in the in
24:59the loudest timber there is, you know.
25:01So it it for me it it gave I went from
25:05seeing doing the exact same things,
25:07hunting the same ways, hunting feed
25:08trees. I went from from
25:12being unsuccessful at calling or not
25:13calling and and seeing
25:17six or eight bucks a year to calling
25:21very regular and seeing six to eight
25:22bucks a day. I mean, I've had 10 and 12
25:25buck days many of times where I've
25:27called in 10 or 12. Now, the majority of
25:29them was year and two year old bucks,
25:30but okay, man. I'm calling in bucks, you
25:34know, and then the occasional
25:35three-year-old and then, you know, three
25:37times a year I call in that four and 5
25:39year old. And, you know, people say,
25:41"Well, why ain't it working on the four
25:43and 5 year olds?" Well, because there's
25:44not four and 5 year olds out there. You
25:46know, I can't call what's not there. You
25:49know, there's a whole lot of year and a
25:50half and two year olds. So, it goes back
25:53to to you know, you just you and and if
25:55you're not calling when he walks by,
25:57he's not going to hear you. And I
25:58rattle, man. I you know
26:03depending on the time of year if when I
26:06I tell people to start rattling when I
26:08start seeing aggressive rubs is when
26:09that's when they first start showing up
26:11in an area or if I'm walking through an
26:13area and you see those fresh aggressive
26:14rubs and I mean an aggressive rub is
26:15when it's it's beat up and down. It
26:17ain't got to be big. It can be as big as
26:19your thumb but it's broke. It's tore up.
26:21He's aggressive. There's two things
26:23going on. That's an aggressive deer that
26:26is is probably going to respond to a
26:28call. And now it's time. And that shows
26:31me that it shows me that, hey, I just
26:32found an area that's got an aggressive
26:34buck in it and he's ready to do bucky
26:36things. So that goes back to confidence.
26:39Now I know that, hey, I'm in the area
26:41with one that wants to play the game.
26:43So, and and now he may be a 2-year-old
26:45or he may be a three-year-old, but he
26:47he's still one of them that's going to
26:48play the game. And and man, six out of
26:5110 times I'm going to call that buck up.
26:53Um and and it's a lot of fun when that's
26:55happening. And so it was a with me a
27:00trial and error thing. I you know
27:01anybody that's followed me through the
27:02page they know anybody that follows me
27:04in my business. I mean I I run thermal
27:06imagers on when I tell you something
27:07from an insulation. I own an insulation
27:09company. So when I tell you something
27:10from an insulation standpoint, I'm not
27:12guessing. I'm not telling you what a
27:13manufacturer salesman told me. I went
27:15out and put a thermal imager on it. I
27:16know at what temperature it does this. I
27:18know I know how much insulation you need
27:20and don't need. you know, I I I don't
27:23listen to YouTube and that kind of stuff
27:25and get my information from. I'm that
27:26guy that, okay, let's go see let's test
27:29that theory. And I tested all of my
27:30theories before I ever started talking
27:32about them. So, you know, and and
27:34there's a hundred different ways to do
27:35the same things I do, but the things
27:37that I do and I talk about are things
27:39that I've I've I've gotten wrong way
27:42before I ever got them right, you know.
27:43And I just try to keep people from from
27:46having that that long learning curve
27:48that I did because if you can pick a
27:50grunk call up now and go out there and
27:51say, "Okay, man, this redneck down in
27:53Arkansas said if I do this, it's going
27:55to work." And then, you know, they
27:57actually start out right because most
27:58people they blow a grunt call.
28:03I'm not saying that don't work some of
28:05the time, but I promise you it it it
28:07scares a lot more deer than it calls in.
28:09And
28:12that's not going to ever scare a deer.
28:14That deer can be standing underneath
28:16you. If he does not see you, it will not
28:18spook him because it's a deer sound.
28:21That's not necessarily a deer sound, you
28:23know. And and that's what it goes back
28:25to the horn rattling. When you slam them
28:28together, they, you know, I think they
28:30run from the initial bang. And out west
28:33in Texas, they're calling deer from a
28:35long ways off. And in Arkansas or the
28:38pine thickness of Alabama or anywhere
28:40tight quarters, you don't have that. So
28:42when you can grind those horns together,
28:45it it just it it takes away
28:49your chances of spooking your doe's,
28:50your young bucks or whatever, and it
28:52puts a confidence in you that man,
28:54sooner or later, you you keep putting
28:55those horns together like that, you keep
28:57running that call, sooner or later
28:59you're going to see a three or four year
29:01old buck that responds to it. And and
29:03then you're hooked. I mean, once it
29:04happens, you're hooked. So, on the
29:06podcast, y'all hear us talk all the time
29:08about finding overlooked spots,
29:09especially when you're hunting a hunting
29:10club or public land. Well, what about
29:12when you're in the market to buy
29:13property and you're trying to find
29:14something that's overlooked that not
29:16everybody has access to? And that's when
29:18trying to find a property that's offline
29:19comes into huge factor. And having an
29:21agent that can help you do that, like
29:22Slade Johnson. So, Slade, what is a
29:25overlooked or offmarket property and why
29:28would somebody want to try to purchase
29:29something like that versus what's
29:30available to everybody online?
29:31>> Yeah. So, what I've seen with real
29:32estate is there's a lot of properties
29:34and land owners that are willing to
29:36sell, but they don't want to list their
29:37property, especially the really nice
29:39tracks that maybe they don't want people
29:41to know what kind of deer they have on
29:42their property. Um, so it's kind of just
29:45word of mouth through agents. And what
29:46I've done is really build a database of
29:48offline tracks that can be bought in the
29:50southeast. Obviously, Alabama's my core
29:52area, but whether that's Tennessee,
29:54Mississippi, Georgia, we've got land
29:56owners that have property that can be
29:57bought. So, if you're looking for
29:59something that's special, uh, it's it's
30:00a good chance we can help you find it
30:02before it hits the market.
30:03>> Yeah. If you want to, you know, have the
30:04opportunity to kill really world class
30:06deer, but deer you would probably go to
30:07Iowa and Kansas to go and hunt. You can
30:09actually find in deep south. And Slate
30:10actually just showed us a property that
30:13is uh off market, but they are killing
30:15giant deer every single year. So, it is
30:18possible everybody. So, if y'all have
30:20any questions, you can, of course, reach
30:21out to Slade. Slade, how would someone
30:23get a hold of you?
30:23>> Yeah, the best way is probably just give
30:24me a call. Um, my number is 205499 3858.
30:28I know that's we put our number
30:29everywhere nowadays, but uh, just let me
30:31know if you're looking for something and
30:32that also equates to selling. If you got
30:34a property you want to sell, I've got a
30:35list of buyers that are looking for
30:37tracks, so maybe we can sell it before
30:38it hits the market. Um, you know, so we
30:40can help you on both sides.
30:41>> So, if you're in the market to buy or
30:42sell property, you can reach out to our
30:44buddy Slade Johnson with Tut Lane
30:46Company.
30:47>> One thing we talk about with almost
30:48every guest on this show is map
30:50scouting. My favorite map scouting tool
30:52is LAR. If you're unfamiliar, Lidor is
30:55basically like a 3D scan of the Earth's
30:58surface. I like to say it kind of takes
30:59away all the surprises. Lidar is now
31:01available on OnX Hunt on their
31:03topography map. If you go to your app
31:05right now, click on the topography map,
31:07you can flip on that LAR feature and
31:08boom, it's going to come on and you're
31:10going to see what I'm talking about. The
31:11LAR is going to allow you to see things
31:13that are normally hidden from view. This
31:14might be ditches, bends and creeks,
31:18rocks, old road beds. I personally love
31:20old road beds because deer like to walk
31:23them. They're great places to find
31:24scrapes. They're great camera locations.
31:26And you know, before an old roaded or an
31:28old logging road might be something that
31:30you kind of happen upon while you're out
31:32scouting or hunting. Well, now with the
31:33LAR, before I go into an area, I can
31:36turn on that LAR and I can see exactly
31:37where those road beds are. Even old
31:39logging roads from the 1930s, you can
31:42still see them on there. So, that allows
31:43me to go straight to those spots and
31:45check them out. It's just an incredibly
31:47helpful tool. And it's available now on
31:49OnX Hunt. And hey, if you want to get
31:5120% off your OnX Elite membership, you
31:54can use the promo code Southern. Like I
31:56said, it's going to save you 20%. Go
31:57check out that LAR feature. You'll be
31:59glad you did. Know where you stand with
32:01OnX Hunt. Everybody needs a great pair
32:02of binos. And if you're looking to get
32:04you a better pair of binos this fall,
32:05check out the Viper HD 10x42s from
32:08Vortex Optics. These are quickly
32:10becoming one of my favorite pair of
32:11binos because they're lightweight,
32:13they're fairly compact, and they have
32:15great glass for the price point. So, if
32:17you're looking for premium glass without
32:18the premium price, check out the Viper
32:20HDS from vortexoptics.com.
32:23And if you want to purchase, you can go
32:24over to europtic.com, use the code
32:26southern10. Again, it's southern10 at
32:29europtic.com
32:30to save you 10% on anything from Vortex.
32:33So, when it comes to packing your gear
32:35into the woods, there's really one thing
32:36that matters the most to me, and that is
32:38being able to have everything very
32:40secure and within the footprint of your
32:42torso essentially, which means that I
32:44don't want anything sticking out from
32:46either side. I don't want anything
32:47sticking up above my back. You just want
32:49to keep everything really tight, close
32:50to the body, so you're not snagging on
32:52things when you're walking through the
32:53woods. To do that, it's important to
32:55have a backpack that has a lot of
32:57options for how you can attach things to
32:59the pack. This is the Ranger 22 and
33:01Ranger 33 from Latitude. Two of our
33:03favorite packs. And the reason I like
33:04these packs is because they've got two
33:06straps that go across the body of the
33:08pack. They've got this panel that goes
33:10over those straps. And then you also
33:11have straps on the bottom of the of the
33:13backpack as well. What that allows me to
33:15do is I can attach my sticks and my
33:17platform in a variety of different ways.
33:19That keeps everything very secure and
33:21kind of covered up. Like you can see, I
33:23got my platform right here covered with
33:24this panel. Again, that keeps it very
33:26tight and it keeps it close to my body
33:28where nothing's hanging out and snagging
33:30on briars or vines or anything as I'm
33:32trying to make my way to the stand,
33:33which keeps me quiet and keeps me from
33:35getting aggravated when I'm walking
33:36through the woods. So, I personally like
33:38the Ranger 22 a lot. The Ranger 33 is a
33:41slightly bigger pack. It's a really good
33:43option, especially as you get into later
33:44season if you want a little bit more
33:46room. It's going to make it easier to
33:47carry things like bibs or any extra
33:50layers that you're going to need for
33:50cold weather. So, you can check both of
33:52these out at latitudeoutdoors.com.
33:55Yeah. And I was going to say this, some
33:57people that are like watching, listening
33:59this that haven't heard previous
34:00conversations on this this convers or
34:02this topic of calling, some of them are
34:05probably like, "Oh, that sounds pretty
34:06good." Others like, "I don't know about
34:07that." We I'm We have had hundreds upon
34:10hundreds upon hundreds of listener su
34:12success stories from the episode we did
34:14with you about calling. And I I'm one of
34:16them. I've had multiple success both
34:18killing bucks and just calling in deer.
34:20And one thing and this because we get
34:22this question a lot of like man I wish I
34:24would do more episodes not necessarily
34:25about killing mature bucks but just
34:26killing deer. If your goal is to just
34:28kill you a rack deer this is one of the
34:30best ways to do it.
34:31>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Like I said my
34:34success rate went from six or eight deer
34:38a buck deer a season to
34:41some days six or eight a day. I'm
34:44talking 35 or 40 racked deer. And I when
34:47I say rack now, I'm talking I'm talking
34:49eight points. I'm talking 2-year-old
34:51eight points are better. I don't even
34:52count the the the the spikes and the
34:54three points. I'm talking rack bucks,
34:56you know, and and I'm I'm talking to
34:59guys and yeah, man, when I one of my
35:01biggest pet peeves is talking to young
35:04young bow hunters or or maybe not even
35:05young but bow hunters, people that maybe
35:07have just gotten into it at 40 and
35:11well, I'm I'm not going to shoot I'm not
35:13going to shoot a I'm not going to shoot
35:14a 2-y old buck. Well, you're probably
35:15never going to shoot a four-y old buck.
35:16If you do, you're not probably not going
35:17to hit him because you you don't just
35:20pick a bow up and decide, I'm going to
35:21kill 140 inch deer. It just don't
35:23happen. It may happen once. It's not
35:24going to happen. You just It's not going
35:26to happen. It It takes You take You go
35:29back and look at every successful bow
35:30hunter on on on mature bucks. It took
35:34time. And those guys need to
35:39My deal was a and it's what I tell
35:40people. If you cannot
35:44successfully
35:45be honest with yourself, people lie to
35:47themselves. I mean, they just, oh, I
35:49could have killed I could have, it was
35:50tournament bass fishing. I was big in it
35:52from 20207. And I would talk to people,
35:55you know, oh, we whacked them today. We
35:57had a 15, 18 pound limit. Well, the day
35:58of the tournament, they'd have four fish
36:00and weigh six pounds. Well, what
36:02happens? Every tournament, the day
36:03before you whack them and you had 20
36:05pounds and then the day of tournament,
36:06you've got eight. Well, they wasn't
36:08truthful with themselves about what they
36:09caught, you know, and they're not people
36:11are not truth truthful with themselves
36:13about their hunts, you know. Be honest.
36:15If you want to be successful, be honest,
36:17okay?
36:19I could have killed this year, this
36:22whole season, I could have killed three
36:252-year-old bucks, you know? Okay, now I
36:29want to kill 140inch deer. You probably
36:31really need to be able to kill 10 or 12
36:33two-year-old bucks before you start
36:35trying to kill before you think that you
36:37really have a chance at killing 140inch
36:39deer because and I'm not only talking
36:41about finding them putting them in in
36:43bow range of you. I'm talking making
36:45that shot. If you haven't shot a dozen
36:48rack bucks, the chances that you're
36:51going to hit the first 140 that walks by
36:53you is astronomically low. You can't
36:56you're not you can't breathe. You can't
36:58hold your bow straight. You're not going
36:59to judge distance when you cuz cuz a
37:02140in deer to somebody that has never
37:04killed one is going to look like a 160
37:06and it's going to, you know, I mean,
37:08it's just, and I'm speaking from
37:09experience because there is no telling
37:11how many times early in life I come out
37:12and told my buddies, I seen a 160.
37:14Here's a 135, you know, if we was going
37:16to be honest about it, you know, but,
37:18you know, I had never killed a 135 at
37:20that time. So, until you've killed a few
37:22of them and put your hands on them, you
37:24don't know. Now, there is a little more
37:26of it now because it's it's routine.
37:27Back then it wasn't. You know, I when I
37:29killed that first 125 inch deer, if I
37:31would have had a cell phone to have
37:32called somebody, I'd have told them I
37:33just killed a 150. You know, he's 18
37:35inches wide and he's got times this big.
37:37This is all I'd ever killed, you know.
37:39So, it it but that goes back to success
37:43and confidence. You know, man, don't be
37:46I think the world's starting to shift a
37:48little bit now. it looks like to where
37:49it's not is that boy we went through a
37:51spell and I was guilty of it where
37:55I went through a short spell where I was
37:57like you know I kind of looked down on I
37:59didn't want to talk to people if they
38:00weren't if they weren't if they wasn't
38:02trying to kill big deer or doing big
38:03deer and I hate that about that part of
38:05my life uh because man had it would have
38:08not have been for those truckloads of
38:09doe's and spikes and three points and
38:11six points that I killed that never have
38:14been successful on the mature deer that
38:16I was. It was a progression in life and
38:19time and and and man, I still can I can
38:23recount 15
38:25140 plus inch deer that I either missed
38:28or wounded. And that's why the letting
38:31them wait and tracking become so big to
38:33me because man, I made that mistake time
38:35and time again. I could not wait. And
38:37you know, and I used to be bad about the
38:39shot. And when I say patience and
38:40getting the deer in the right spot, we
38:42talked about that earlier. That that
38:44comes from um something that bothers me
38:47to this day. I used to could not take
38:50it. I had to shoot. As soon as I saw a
38:53rack buck, I had to get that air off.
38:55And I would shoot them in the wrong
38:56angle. I would shoot them walking. I
38:58would shoot them too far. I would shoot
38:59them in stuff too thick. And then I'd be
39:01sick because I either missed or I let a
39:03deer get away. And it took me probably
39:07honestly 5 years and and seven or eight
39:10racked deer before I ever figured out,
39:14okay, it's easier for me to go back and
39:16tell my buddies, hey man, I let that
39:18buck walk today. I just couldn't get a
39:19shot at him. Well, they're not going to
39:21believe you. Okay. Well, they're not. I
39:24mean, I don't believe a guy that comes
39:25out and tells me he shot a 160 and we go
39:27out there and we track blood for 16
39:29hours and we don't find nothing at the
39:30end of it. you know, I'm probably pretty
39:32sure he he shot a 115, you know. So, but
39:35anyways, it it it that kind of goes back
39:37to that that deal with that is waiting,
39:42being patient and letting them deer get
39:45right and and taking good shots and and
39:47that comes back to woodsmanship and
39:49steward of the land and and and man, in
39:51in my eyes, evolving as a man, maturing
39:55as a man. When you can when you can look
39:57at things in life and have some
39:59patience, some hesitation, some some
40:02reservations, it it it makes life
40:04better. I mean, cuz I used to be that
40:05guy that was 1,000 miles an hour at
40:07everything I did. And I made a lot of
40:09mistakes because of that. Um, and you
40:12know, anybody takes something this
40:13podcast, I hope they learn, you know,
40:15that you can call and not spook deer,
40:16that you you can be successful on on
40:19feed trees and and that it's okay to let
40:20a buck deer walk or a dough. I mean, I'm
40:22not even saying a buck. Let them doe's
40:23walk, you know, but go out there and
40:25kill you eight or 10 or 12 deer. Spend
40:27you. If you want to save one tag and
40:29hunt, that's fine. But don't end your
40:31season with all your tags in your pocket
40:33and because you was trying to kill a big
40:35deer. And don't be the guy that ends the
40:38season with all your tags in your pocket
40:40and you're lying about you didn't, oh, I
40:42didn't shoot nothing cuz he wasn't big.
40:43No, you didn't shoot nothing cuz you're
40:44a bad hunter. you know, you need to be a
40:46better hunter and and and and then start
40:48filling some tags and then you'll you'll
40:50be able to actually kill those bigger
40:52deer. So, you know, the first I don't I
40:56right now I told you I was going to
40:58North Carolina. We got a place in North
40:59Carolina. We're going to be spending
41:00some time out there. Our son's out there
41:01and and I'm I'm super excited because
41:04I'm going out there with intentions of
41:05shooting a three-year-old buck in North
41:07Carolina. That's my goal. I don't care
41:08if he's if he's 85 inches or 120 inches.
41:10My goal is to go to North Carolina on
41:12public land and kill a three-year-old
41:13buck or better. I'm shooting the first
41:15two-year-old that walks by me, you know.
41:17I mean, all right, I might shoot a
41:19spike. I don't know. You know, my son
41:20likes deer meat. So, it might be a deal
41:22where, you know, I'm going out there
41:24with a new in here. I'm probably not
41:27going to do it because,
41:29you know, it's I can't. It's just I
41:31won't. But out there, it's it's a whole
41:33new it's learning curve. I don't have no
41:35idea what I'm doing out there. From what
41:37I can tell, it's all pine trees and
41:38thickets. I don't know what they're
41:39eating, you know. So, I'm going out
41:41there as a kid again, learning how to do
41:43it. And and I'm excited about that. You
41:45know, it's like fishing out there. I'm
41:46out there red fishing, trout fishing,
41:48trying to fish in the ocean. I have no
41:49idea what I'm doing. I told you I've run
41:50boat 300 miles and caught seven fish,
41:52you know. So, it it it but I'm confident
41:56enough to know that sooner or later, I'm
41:58going to find them big red fish. I'm
42:00going to find them big trout. I I'm
42:01going to learn how to catch something in
42:03the ocean if it's a shark, you know, and
42:05I'm going to kill a three-year-old buck
42:07with my bow in public land in North
42:08Carolina. Is it going to be this year?
42:10Is it going to be 5 years from now?
42:11Don't know, but I'm going to do it, you
42:13know. So, that's, you know, and
42:18but I'm excited again about about
42:20hunting and fishing because it's a it's
42:21it's all new to me
42:23>> when it come I just I just want to do
42:25one more thing on the calling aspect. uh
42:28specifically grunt calling because I
42:30think grunt call a guy implementing or
42:32hunter implementing a grunt call the
42:33right way like what we're talking about
42:36can change a lot for him uh specifically
42:39on not building his not only building
42:40his confidence but just getting more
42:41opportunities seeing bucks and having
42:43bucks within range because again I' I've
42:45seen it work it's happened to me like
42:46I'll tell real quick story because I
42:48don't think I told you this I killed a
42:49buck two years ago I grown them in
42:51unfort I say unfortunately I always like
42:53gun hunting but it was one of those
42:54times like looking back I'm like god I
42:56wish I would have had a bow in my hand
42:57cuz I grown him and he came through the
42:59edge of a pine tank and popped out six
43:00yards looking and tall times bang he got
43:04he got killed dropped him right there I
43:06went back to that same tree the next day
43:07did the exact same calling sequence
43:09right at the crack of daylight and I
43:11think it was two call sequences later so
43:13about 30 minutes later every 15 minutes
43:15calling I could hear coming through like
43:17sticks breaking coming through that pine
43:18thicket and all of a sudden I see bottom
43:20of some legs on the same trail I shot
43:22that buck on the day before but he's
43:23like 5 yards further in so he's like 11
43:25yards I can see his brisket I cannot see
43:27his head. Can't see what what he's got
43:29for head gear. There's antler
43:30restrictions on place and I wasn't going
43:31to ground check a deer. He finally just
43:33turned and just eased back off. I
43:35couldn't do anything else with that
43:36deer.
43:37>> But it is so fun when you can call and
43:40you have a buck come in. It don't matter
43:42if it's a spike or if it's a 160 inch. I
43:44ain't had that happen yet except in
43:46Kansas. Different story though.
43:48It is the most fun thing because you are
43:51deliberately doing something that brings
43:52a deer to you.
43:53>> That's right. You did it.
43:55>> Yeah. it there there's there's this
43:57aspect of
44:00when when
44:02it it takes a level of skill to be able
44:05to set up and put deer when I'm doing on
44:08feed trees when I can set up and put
44:10them inside a bow range on a feature
44:12tree. It takes a level of of skill to do
44:14that. But there is also a lot of level
44:18of aspects of luck that that can be
44:20perceived into that. But when you're
44:22calling and that deer unmistakably comes
44:26to your call, there's no luck involved
44:28in that. You did that. You did that. You
44:30put that deer there. That deer. Now, I
44:33mean, some can argue and say, "Well,
44:34that deer was walking straight to you
44:35anyways." Maybe he was, maybe it was.
44:38When I started calling and my numbers of
44:40bucks grew, I knew then, okay, this
44:43ain't this them, but I've never seen
44:45this many buck deer ever. These deer
44:47weren't just walking by me. whether I
44:48caught them out of their bed, whether I
44:50caught them walking further off or what
44:51or and and and when I count kind of
44:55counting those numbers, I'm not counting
44:56deer that were I think was a buck that
44:58was in a thicket 150 yards and I saw a
45:00tail or there may have been a few more
45:02bucks involved in that, but these that
45:04deer right there. No, it wasn't a deer,
45:07but a deer looks just like him. I saw
45:09that deer. I didn't know what he was. I
45:11saw that deer in a thicket and I hit
45:13him. I hit him with two grunt calls. He
45:14turned towards me. I hit him two more
45:16times on GRS and he walked straight to
45:17my tree and I shot him at at 10 or 12
45:19yards and it was it was I had just got
45:22in a tree and it was one of those deals
45:24where had I would have not have been
45:26confident in that call I'd have let that
45:28deer walk off because I would have been
45:31scared I would have spooked him or I
45:33didn't know what he was to shoot and I
45:34just hit him with those two soft calls
45:36and and he when he turned and looked at
45:37me I seen he was a shooter deer or a
45:39deer I was willing to shoot and I hit
45:40him two more times he walked right to me
45:42and you know that's that's I don't think
45:45that you can once a deer commits and
45:47starts coming to you, leave him alone.
45:49But I don't think that blowing a call um
45:52that that sounds like a buck deer
45:54walking through the woods. I don't think
45:55you're ever going to spook a deer. I
45:56think you could I I think I could call
45:58with them all the way tree because I've
46:00I've called him up, let him turn around,
46:01walk off, call him. I I called a buck in
46:04seven or eight times one day and I was
46:06sitting in a tree eating chocolate chip
46:07cookies and he'd walk off and I call him
46:08back. He'd walk off and I call him back.
46:10He was a two-y old buck and he was an
46:11aggressive eight-y old I mean an
46:13aggressive two-y old eight point and I
46:15was in an area where it was just beat up
46:16all around there and he'd go out there
46:17and he'd paw and he'd put bushes but I
46:19I'd get the best of him he'd come right
46:21back to me and you know it's so
46:25once you figure out the volume and and
46:27that hey I've got a call that works not
46:29all calls work they just won't you know
46:30I'm not knocking there you may get one
46:32out of Walmart all plastic call that
46:34works but my suggestion to everybody is
46:38get you
46:39a a wooden call to me. The wood calls
46:42just seem to work better. Solid wood all
46:45the way down seems to work better to me
46:46than a tube. I'm not saying the tubes
46:48don't or and I hadn't called them with
46:49tubes, but the solid wood call seem to
46:51work better to me. And get you find out
46:55before you just because you go buy it's
46:57got somebody's name on it and it's a
46:58wooden call. It may be a production call
47:01and there's just something about a
47:02handtune call versus a production call.
47:04Um, find somebody that makes handtune
47:06calls and get you one. I mean, you
47:08you're going to pay, you know, $50 to
47:11$150 for it, but it's one of those
47:14things where it's worth it. You know, if
47:16it if it takes you takes you all summer
47:18to to to get the money up to buy that
47:20call if you want to be successful at
47:22calling, you got to have a good call.
47:24Get good get good tools. And when you go
47:26back go back to rattling, if you want to
47:27rattle, and I wish I just, you know, I
47:30didn't think about my horns. My horns
47:31are in long oak. I like a heavy set of
47:35horns and I like fresh horns. Um, a lot
47:38of people rattle with dead horns. And
47:40when I say dead horns, they don't have
47:42pop. Um, and and I don't think they work
47:45as well. I like I like to change my
47:47horns every two or three years. When
47:48when I was back when I was really
47:49hunting calling, I would pick a deer
47:52every two or three years. I would pick a
47:53deer out that I called in and kill him
47:56for the horns for rattling horns. Um,
47:58and I wanted a I wanted a wider set of
48:02racks that that that spun out that
48:04wasn't tight and tall. Um, and and then
48:06I cut them off to make them to where you
48:08can just get that grind in that pop cuz
48:09I don't All I want is to be able to put
48:11them horns together and slide them each
48:13other. I tell people all the time, if
48:14you're not getting cramps in your arm,
48:15you're not grinding them. And you will
48:17smell it. You will smell it burning. And
48:19when you can smell that, you're doing it
48:21right. That's the telltale sign. you you
48:24know the wind's in your face and you
48:26know that you're grinding them horns the
48:27right way and you you just you're if as
48:29long as you're not slamming them and
48:31banging them, you won't spook deer. Uh
48:33pick those horns up and and when you've
48:34got a young buck or you've got those
48:36just early season, take them with you
48:38and you've got those out there just put
48:39them together and start grinding them
48:41and watch. You won't spook those deer.
48:43And if you're not spooking those deer,
48:45you're not spooking buck deer. And like
48:47I said, you know, I don't know if we're
48:49calling one out of every three that
48:52hears it or if we're calling one out of
48:54every 15. But what I do know is that
48:56there's something magical about them
48:58coming to a call. And your your success
49:01on rack gear goes up exponentially when
49:04you're blowing a call. And when it comes
49:06back to how often do I call, all the
49:08time. Because if I'm not calling, he
49:11can't hear me. I blow it. I'm calling at
49:13such low volume that I I I figure 100
49:16yards is is my effective range on a on
49:19any given semi quiet day. There's days
49:22when it's 30 yards and there's days when
49:23it's maybe 150, but 100 yards is kind of
49:26what I figure my effective range is. And
49:28I like to set up I'm always going to be
49:31hunting feed trees because deer are
49:33going to be there. Whether it's well,
49:35you're just hunting a bunch of those.
49:36What's a buck looking for? You know,
49:38when you go out when you're a kid and
49:39you're going to a bar, what are you
49:40looking for? You know, young men, it's
49:43it's we we go where where what we're
49:45looking for is at, you know, if if I'm
49:47looking for live bait for a trot line,
49:49you know, I don't go to Target, you
49:51know. So,
49:53set up to where you've got deer numbers
49:55and put that call to work and and man,
49:58you're going to have success with it.
50:00And and it's one of those things that
50:02goes back to you can get away with a lot
50:05of Now, I'm not I'm not suggesting you
50:07do it, but you can get away with a lot
50:09of things that go wrong. If you've got
50:11all day to hunt and you get out there
50:13and you get in a tree, whether it be
50:14daylight or whether it be 10:00 in the
50:16morning, and if you're going to call and
50:18you be plant your butt in a tree and sit
50:19there and blow that call because any
50:22mistakes that you made getting in are
50:25probably irrelevant at at 1 2:00. If the
50:27bucks are up and they're cruising, you
50:29have an element of of surprise that you
50:32don't have a lot of times when you're
50:34just sneaking in to hit a feed tree
50:36because you have bucks that are up
50:37traveling. You know, you may call in a
50:38buck that that was two miles away from
50:41you when you clum that tree. So that
50:43there's always that too. You know, you
50:45can if you make a little noise or if
50:47something ain't quite right or you know,
50:50you don't even have to be in the perfect
50:51spot. Now I I always tell everybody, try
50:53to find the perfect spot. Try to find
50:55that spot. The more deer you're around,
50:57the more deer you're going to call, you
50:58know. That's just
51:00law of numbers, you know. So, the more
51:01deer here you the more deer going to
51:02come. And like I said, I don't know
51:03whether we're calling one of every three
51:05or one of every 15. My guess is it's one
51:07of every three or four. Um, and I think
51:09there's days when I have called I have
51:12had multiple days over years where every
51:14rack buck deer that I seen uh from
51:17November 5th or November 10th in one WMA
51:20that I hunt, if I saw a rack buck, I was
51:23going to call that buck in. And there
51:25was a short window that that worked, but
51:27it was just I don't know what it's just
51:28something about the timing in that then
51:30in in there that it worked. Um, and now
51:33I typically never saw a four-year-old
51:35buck at that time frame. But cuz the the
51:37the the mature bucks, from what I've
51:40figured out, very seldom do they run
51:43does doe's. When you see when you see a
51:45deer full-blown run a dough, it's
51:46typically a younger deer and the dough
51:48is not ready. Typically, a mature buck
51:50doesn't start messing with a dough until
51:52she's almost ready. he's got her locked
51:54down in a thicket or, you know, he's got
51:56her head off somewhere to herself. He's
51:58not running around. If he is, it's
51:59probably a yearling deer and a yearling
52:01deer don't know that she's supposed to
52:02be bred and she's running from him
52:03because this big old buck's trying to
52:04get on top of her, you know. And so
52:07you're you're I've had the most success
52:11on mature bucks, four and five year old
52:12bucks post rut. Once the doe's are bred,
52:16now these you've got a 3, four, five day
52:18window. Um, and in Arkansas it's the
52:20first 10 days of December is what it's
52:22always been for me down there. Now up
52:23here it's it's the first few days of
52:25November. Uh, during Musl mid-occtober,
52:28our bucks are full-blown rut here. Uh,
52:30it's crazy the difference between here
52:32and and where my other place was down on
52:34the White River. It was Janu, it was
52:36late December and January. Um, but learn
52:40and that's another thing with
52:40woodsmanship and practice and and
52:42knowing your game. learn. All right. And
52:45one of the best ways to do that is
52:49when I'm driving to work, how many buck
52:50deer am I seeing ran over? How many deer
52:52hit on the highway? All right. When you
52:54start seeing deer show up on the
52:55highway, that means they're up and
52:56moving. Start calling. When you start
52:58seeing those little scrapes show up on
53:00roads, on on trails, and you start
53:02seeing them on on logging roads and that
53:04kind of stuff, start calling. When you
53:06find those rubs start showing up, those
53:08little rubs beat up, start calling. It
53:09may be 2-year-old deer. Practice on
53:11them. If you don't want to shoot him,
53:13that's fine. Call them in. Practice on
53:14them because if you can call 2-year-old
53:16deer, you can call four-year-old deer.
53:18And you know, that's that goes back to
53:20I'm not saying shoot them. I just like
53:22calling them. You know, I'll call to
53:23everyone I see walking through the woods
53:25cuz I want to know how's he going to
53:27respond. Is he going to come? Can he
53:29hear me? And what volume do I have to
53:31put out for him to hear me? So
53:32practicing on every buck deer you see
53:34walk by is is is a good thing. And you
53:38just don't get to that point once he
53:40hears you and you don't want to shoot
53:42him, let him go. But, you know, find out
53:44what that volume is and and if you do
53:45spook him, say, "Okay, you know, cuz
53:47every once in a while you'll make that
53:49that mistake. I do it. We all do it."
53:51And you know, okay, I can't I got to got
53:53to control that. I can't do that. So,
53:55um, but calling man, it it, you know, I
53:59get passionate about it. It's one of
54:00those things that just I had so much
54:03success at it and it and like I said,
54:07it's just one of those things that when
54:09it happens, it it it it means so much
54:12more when you kill a big deer that you
54:14called in or something. It's, you know,
54:16I I've always said
54:19I'd rather be lucky as good any day.
54:21That's not true. You know, I want to be
54:23I want to be good at what I do. So, and
54:25I'll take luck if it comes my way. You
54:27know, I I a 170 is what I've always
54:29wanted to kill. I've never killed one in
54:30I've never killed one period. I don't
54:31why I say Arkansas. I've never killed
54:33one anywhere. And you know I Karen's
54:36like, "Well, you know what would you do
54:38to kill one?" I'd run over him in that
54:39Denali
54:43wherever. I don't care how I kill him at
54:45this point in life. I want a 170, you
54:47know. Now, I'm not going to go headlight
54:49him or nothing like that, you know, or
54:50but but if he steps out front of that
54:52deny, I'm probably taking him out, you
54:54know, and I'll be truthful about it.
54:56Y'all look what I ran over, you Well,
54:58I'm not going to go tell you I killed
54:59him with a bow, but I mean, it it it
55:01just kind of goes back to, you know,
55:03where I'm at in life, but man, it's just
55:06something about blowing a grunt call and
55:10running a set of rattling horns that
55:11that just, you know, and you'll find
55:13those you you'll I have days where I'll
55:15go four, five, six days and nothing
55:17responds. And, you know, I don't know
55:18whether they're just not responding or
55:20whether they just, you know, was I just
55:21one didn't hear me. You know, who knows?
55:23Don't care. Every time I blow it, I
55:25suspect I expect something to walk out,
55:27you know. And you can hear a squirrel. I
55:29I tell this people all the time. I
55:30squirrel an armadillo bird. Everything
55:32when you're calling, everything becomes
55:34a 140 or 150 or 160. It's like that's
55:37him, you know. You just tell yourself
55:38that. And and I've probably shot a few
55:40bucks I shouldn't have shot because I
55:41told myself that before he walked out,
55:43you know, but part of that I wouldn't
55:44have shot had I would have really been
55:46thinking about it. But um you know, it
55:48was all good. It was practice, too.
55:50>> I got a quick question on the rattling
55:52antlers. You were talking about not
55:53wanting to rattle with dead antlers.
55:54Have you ever done this or have you ever
55:56heard of anybody doing this where
55:57they'll get a pair of antlers that's
55:58kind of starting to get a little dry?
56:00Maybe they just sound a little different
56:02and they'll soak them in water for like
56:0424 hours just to kind of give them a
56:06little bit more like dull sound.
56:08>> No, I haven't. Now, I'll tell you, I
56:11found and I don't know how old they was,
56:14but I found a set of antlers in the
56:15water one time. It was 160inch deer. Um,
56:17and they didn't sound good. They they
56:19did not have they were they had a hollow
56:22uh
56:22>> kind of
56:23>> a lowend thud to them. Yeah. And I think
56:25for horns to really work I think with
56:27anything whether it's turkeys, birds, I
56:29mean there's times you'll get away with
56:30anything but
56:32it has to sound authentic. They know
56:34what it sounds like and there's
56:36something about a fresh sharp there's a
56:38there's a sound. Get a fresh pair of
56:40horns and pop them. Listen to it. And
56:42then when you don't hear that, just get
56:45you find you a different set. Whether
56:46you have to buy them or you have to
56:47shoot something to get them off of or
56:49whatever. But I I think to be
56:50successful, you want real horns. And I
56:53think you the heavier set of horns that
56:56you can get. I I kind of I I want a I
56:59don't want a little thin uh where it
57:01doesn't matter where I'm hunting. If I'm
57:02hunting in an area that that I think,
57:04you know, has 115in steers of big deer,
57:06I still want a decent because those
57:08little horns just they don't have any
57:10even when you're popping them, they
57:11don't have any volume or any mass or
57:14anything to them. And and I don't think
57:16that
57:19your mature bucks are I don't think they
57:21care about two two-year-old deer over
57:23there fighting. I just don't think they
57:25really do. I think when they hear
57:26something that sounds like two mature
57:28deer, uh, and and I don't know whether
57:30they think there's a dough there. You
57:32know, there's a lot of theories on it.
57:33Um, I think a lot of times they're just
57:35coming to, you know, what's these two
57:38deer in my I mean my area, you know. I
57:40think that you rattling becomes
57:42territorial more. I think grunting is
57:45it's a social call. There's a lot of
57:48things that I think grunting will call
57:49deer that are cruising by that won't
57:51respond to horns. you're going to grunt
57:52in
57:5420 to every one that you rattle in. And
57:57that goes back to what I was talking
57:58about, the the the
58:01temperament of the of that deer. It
58:03takes a a deer with a certain
58:04temperament to come to a set of horns
58:05versus what will come to a grunt call.
58:07Just curiosity will will get them with a
58:09grunt call and not so much with a set of
58:12horns because there's so many deer out
58:13there that don't you just they they
58:16won't fight. you see another deer, you
58:17start toward them and they run, you
58:19know, and then you'll see them start
58:20towards one and he'll turn back to them.
58:22I I've hunted a lot of food plots late
58:24late year um and watch a lot of bucks
58:28and and you know, you'll have one
58:30aggressive buck in the field and and
58:31he'll run five off and then one a walk
58:33out that he's like, "Okay." And then he
58:35starts walking sideways to him. Well,
58:37you're probably not going to call those
58:39four that he ran off, but you're going
58:40to call these two, you know, 90% of the
58:43time. So, and that goes back to knowing
58:48u aggressive rubs and that kind of
58:50stuff. When you see them in the woods,
58:51you know, okay, I'm in a man, I'm in an
58:53area now. And you could I don't know
58:55that I've ever done it, but I think that
58:58a person could stop at that point, not
59:00find feed trees. If he was just buck
59:02hunting, um you find an aggressive set
59:05of of rubs like that in a thicket. A lot
59:08of times, you know, it's not really a
59:09rub line. It's a It's a group of them in
59:11a small area where you just look and you
59:13can see a dozen and they're just beat
59:15up. I think that a person could just
59:16stop in an area like that if he was just
59:18calling and have a a a higher success
59:23rate of calling in a buck right there
59:24than he would have to is you then he
59:26would have to keep looking for sign. I
59:28think it would be worth a hunt anyways.
59:29I don't know that I've ever done that,
59:31but it's something now I think that I
59:33would if I was walking and found that
59:34that I would just set up on that and
59:36hunt it. Uh especially if I was looking
59:39for a buck and not just trying to kill a
59:41deer.
59:41>> Yeah. Also, so another guy we've had on
59:44the podcast, I don't know if his episode
59:46will be out by the time this episode
59:47comes out, but Mr. Brad Harris, he's up
59:49in Missouri. He's a big grunt call guy.
59:52I mean, he's the grunt, one of the grunt
59:54guys. Um and actually talked about he
59:58was one of the guys, if not the guy that
1:00:00invented the grunt call back in the 70s.
1:00:02>> Yeah, I've seen Mr. Brad many many
1:00:04times. Well, he he c he classifies using
1:00:07a grunt call um as like making a cast.
1:00:11And he makes the association if you're
1:00:13going to go if you're going to go
1:00:14fishing somewhere. If you know I had 5
1:00:18hours to catch a fish or catch as many
1:00:20fish as possible, I'm casting as much as
1:00:21I can.
1:00:23And he says the same thing when he's
1:00:24when he's calling and when he's deer
1:00:26hunting. He's like, I'm calling all the
1:00:27time often cuz I'm making casts. if you
1:00:30only grunt call if you only make a
1:00:31couple grunts a whole hunt, that's like
1:00:33going on a fish trip and only throwing
1:00:35only casting four or five times in eight
1:00:37hours.
1:00:38>> He's like, why would you do that, right?
1:00:39>> And I think that's such a good point.
1:00:41And again, if you're if you're using the
1:00:43grunt call effectively from a lower
1:00:45volume, like I I've explained on the
1:00:46podcast and we demonstrated this I think
1:00:48it was last year.
1:00:49>> Um I almost it's like 20 to 30% volume
1:00:52like air flow going through very light.
1:00:55Yeah.
1:00:55>> Um,
1:00:56>> you're not spooking anything, but you're
1:00:58making those casts and you're trying to
1:01:00hook a hook a hook a fish, hook a buck,
1:01:03get a buck to come in. Um, and and also,
1:01:07like we talked, like we talked about, it
1:01:08is just fun. Like, once you start having
1:01:10some confidence with it,
1:01:12>> there is nothing more fun than, like you
1:01:14said, you just hear a sound, you think
1:01:15it's a buck, but when you actually are
1:01:17calling bucks in and having those
1:01:19encounters, whether it's something you
1:01:20want to kill or not, there is nothing
1:01:22more fun than that. Like, you made that
1:01:24happen. And you make and also I was
1:01:25going to bring this up. I think the
1:01:26episode that we did on that um calling
1:01:28episode with you again like 5 years ago.
1:01:31I'm almost certain I heard you you said
1:01:33this phrase. If not I'm just going to
1:01:35say you said it was calling is a way to
1:01:38make your own luck.
1:01:39>> That's right.
1:01:39>> Like it really is.
1:01:40>> Yeah. And you're able to kind of put it
1:01:43into
1:01:45your playing field of making your own
1:01:47luck by implementing the call.
1:01:48>> You made that happen. That's what I was
1:01:50saying while ago. I made I did that. You
1:01:52know, it's one of those it it Yeah. And
1:01:56it it
1:01:58the sheer numbers of when when when it's
1:02:01going your way and it's going right, you
1:02:03see that and then you and if if if the
1:02:07guys that really want to know the truth
1:02:09and are interested in being successful,
1:02:11getting better, document your hunts.
1:02:14Document your hunts. How many bucks did
1:02:15How many How many deer did I see today?
1:02:17And be honest. How many, you know, what
1:02:19were they doing? Ask yourself why. What
1:02:20were they doing? Did they spook? Did
1:02:22they not come in? You know, and then I
1:02:24if if and go back and and and think
1:02:27about it, okay, on if I hunted 10 times
1:02:30the last three years on 10 hunts, how
1:02:32many deer was I seeing? And then and
1:02:35then when you start calling for three
1:02:37years, implement that and say, "Okay,
1:02:39how many am I seeing now?" And you you
1:02:41will see once you learn that. But you
1:02:45really need to take that call and blow
1:02:46it around does doe's and stuff until you
1:02:48know that you're not spooking them
1:02:49because if you're if you're just until
1:02:52you know that you're doing it right, you
1:02:54you don't know, you know, and so blow it
1:02:57around doese's. Get you some doese's out
1:02:58there feeding and start blowing that.
1:02:59Just just start hitting it
1:03:04and if they're not spooking, that's how
1:03:06you need to be calling on a call off. I
1:03:08mean, if you're not spooking those
1:03:10doe's, you're not spooking anything. So,
1:03:12you know, and and you I promise you'll
1:03:14see your buck them rack bucks are going
1:03:16to start showing up and and you you'll
1:03:18know then that okay, I am calling these
1:03:20deer, you know, whether they walk by
1:03:22feeding or whatever. Okay. I you know, I
1:03:24hunted the last three years. I've seen
1:03:26I've seen six bucks total. I've seen six
1:03:28bucks in November this year. You know,
1:03:31it's because you're calling.
1:03:33>> Exactly.
1:03:33>> And and it makes a big difference. And
1:03:35then once you realize that, you're like,
1:03:37"Yeah, I want to go hunting today." is
1:03:38you gonna wake up and it's those days
1:03:39when man the air is right, everything's
1:03:41right and it's the time of year, oh, I
1:03:42got to go call I'm gonna call a buck in
1:03:44today. You know, you can't wait to get
1:03:45off work or you know, you just you make
1:03:47your wife mad and your kids unhappy and
1:03:49your boss don't like you, but it's time
1:03:51to call a buck, man. I got to go.
1:03:53>> Well, awesome. Well, Richard, I think
1:03:55it'll be a point of kind of wrapping up
1:03:56the interview. I I greatly appreciate
1:03:59you letting us come over here and do
1:04:00this.
1:04:00>> Well, I surely enjoy having y'all. Like
1:04:02I said, man, I'm a fan of the show. You
1:04:04know, I I was I was a fan of y'all's and
1:04:07and and enjoyed it back when I was on
1:04:09there and I appreciated y'all having me
1:04:10on then, but uh even more so now as I've
1:04:13watched y'all grow and be successful at
1:04:14what you do and the confidence y'all
1:04:16have in how you do it and and man, y'all
1:04:18actually do, like I said, I told y'all
1:04:20earlier, if if I was going to go out now
1:04:22and start a different style of hunting
1:04:24than what I did or wanted to do it, I
1:04:26would go back to some of the shows with
1:04:27some of the hunters that y'all have that
1:04:29are successful because there's a lot of
1:04:30really good information there. And what
1:04:33I wanted to do with TNU was put that
1:04:35information out the the shorten that
1:04:37learning curve. Y'all are doing it
1:04:38exponentially more than I ever was,
1:04:40reaching a whole lot bigger audience
1:04:42with a with a on the page. It was mostly
1:04:45my point of view in my opinions. Now
1:04:47y'all have an array of of of hunters
1:04:50with different styles that are doing it.
1:04:51So, um, thank y'all.
1:04:53>> Appreciate.
1:04:54>> Appreciate that, man.
1:04:54>> Yeah, that means a lot, Richard. So,
1:04:56I'll say this to all the listeners out
1:04:58there, all the viewers, go implement
1:04:59some calling this fall. Break out that
1:05:01grunt call, practice with it. I'm
1:05:02telling you, it's an absolute blast. But
1:05:04thank y'all for watching. Thank y'all
1:05:05for listening. We'll catch you back here
1:05:06on the next episode from the Southern
1:05:07Outdoorsman.

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