Byagenze bite ngo ingabo za Loni zitere umugongo Abatutsi | Ikiganiro na Lt Gen Romeo Dallaire — Transcript

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1. 0:00[Music]
2. 0:01maganda
3. 0:17[Music]
4. 0:18um
5. 0:35you know Saturday the 19th is
6. 0:39[Music]
7. 0:44look at the situation with the Arusha
8. 0:48peace agreement and to try to ensure
9. 0:52that both sides
10. 1:00[Music]
11. 1:07very demanding pressure
12. 1:10on all sides the solution of the Arusha
13. 1:14agreement was not the best one but it
14. 1:17was there
15. 1:19yet the cars
16. 1:28[Music]
17. 1:52they didn't comprehend the depth of what
18. 1:57the frictions were and the impact of
19. 2:00what had been happening behind the
20. 2:03scenes and so on even with a peace
21. 2:05agreement
22. 2:06and the second part of that is not only
23. 2:09did the countries not be interested but
24. 2:11this is
25. 2:22New York and so those two factors
26. 2:43well there is a yeah
27. 2:49foreign
28. 3:12[Music]
29. 3:26[Music]
30. 3:51[Music]
31. 4:00options of how to ultimately implement
32. 4:04it it was just the time frame and the
33. 4:06resources
34. 4:11[Music]
35. 4:16[Music]
36. 4:27[Music]
37. 4:30creating frictions instead of helping to
38. 4:34implement it
39. 4:35is
40. 4:57the first thing is of course when I got
41. 5:01information from the interamway leader
42. 5:04who is
43. 5:07[Music]
44. 5:23and so that sort of situation that where
45. 5:28that was being young
46. 5:32videos
47. 5:48that's in the report I wrote and what
48. 5:51the actions I wanted to take the
49. 5:54assessments from the political side of
50. 5:55the mission had a different perspective
51. 5:58um
52. 6:13foreign
53. 6:40well we were having assassinations
54. 6:43we were having riots I mean teachers
55. 6:46were not paid anymore
56. 7:00[Music]
57. 7:06[Music]
58. 7:27demonstrated it just didn't have the
59. 7:31flexibility nor
60. 7:33the backing to take some very difficult
61. 7:37decisions rapidly and in so doing they
62. 7:40just kept these frictions getting worse
63. 7:42and worse and worse
64. 7:58right up until my mission
65. 8:01intervene
66. 8:13is
67. 8:30decided to make a peace agreement and we
68. 8:32need a referee to help us make sure that
69. 8:36we play by the rules
70. 8:50foreign
71. 9:27[Music]
72. 9:49[Music]
73. 10:31this is real because we were just not
74. 10:35not only mandated that's one thing and
75. 10:38remember mandate means a country
76. 10:40agreeing to let its troops follow my
77. 10:43orders that's what the Mandate says
78. 10:45foreign
79. 10:50[Music]
80. 11:04foreign
81. 11:32we will pull out the U.N
82. 11:35well then the genocide started that was
83. 11:38going to be my number is
84. 12:03getting closer to well okay first that's
85. 12:07a wonderful question because although
86. 12:09the security Council refused first my
87. 12:13plans for asking uh
88. 12:18[Music]
89. 12:27foreign
90. 12:59[Music]
91. 13:12would be 270 but I realized quite
92. 13:15rapidly
93. 13:17I needed more than that so I ultimately
94. 13:19kept 400 154.
95. 13:28um
96. 13:36[Music]
97. 14:09I had to evacuate another 700 that were
98. 14:12left behind and they pulled out my
99. 14:15forces and left me only with a handful
100. 14:18which in 5 sites was still able to
101. 14:22protect about thirty two thousand and
102. 14:25then we see
103. 14:26um on 22nd June 1994 uh the Security
104. 14:30Council is
105. 14:44because
106. 14:48because
107. 15:06this was contradictory well let's let's
108. 15:10just go back a little bit
109. 15:12on the 16th
110. 15:16is
111. 15:41eliminate uh the uh The Killing that was
112. 15:45going on
113. 15:46so a little problem with that is that no
114. 15:49country wanted to come here
115. 16:10[Music]
116. 16:17foreign
117. 16:52[Music]
118. 17:01[Music]
119. 17:07[Music]
120. 17:12foreign
121. 17:26they thought that the French were coming
122. 17:28in as reinforcements so they started
123. 17:31deploying
124. 17:32as expecting reinforcement and there
125. 17:35were French flags all over the place
126. 17:38on top of that is
127. 17:42[Music]
128. 18:12absolutely
129. 18:25foreign
130. 18:56[Music]
131. 19:10the French themselves are there under a
132. 19:14chapter seven but not under my command
133. 19:17and you got me with a chapter six
134. 19:21between the two
135. 19:23so I was patrolling as a chapter six the
136. 19:27humanitarian protection zone line
137. 19:30between the RPF who are coming West at
138. 19:34great speed and the French who were
139. 19:37coming in from from the West towards the
140. 19:40east and they wanted to take over and
141. 19:44they had a chapter seven
142. 19:46can you imagine how Preposterous that
143. 19:50scenario is
144. 19:55[Music]
145. 20:08that if you did cross the line that we
146. 20:11had established
147. 20:12that they would end up by fighting the
148. 20:15RPF and general kagami held to his word
149. 20:19and he did not cross the line he waited
150. 20:22as we took control of the humanitarian
151. 20:26protection with the Ghanaian battalion
152. 20:30um
153. 20:47detected and experienced that for
154. 20:49example
155. 20:50well first of all you got to remember
156. 20:52I've I've been a combat General all my
157. 20:55life
158. 20:56so I've prepared troops for for many
159. 20:58other missions and for combat and I had
160. 21:02just left Canada commanding a mechanized
161. 21:05Brigade groups
162. 21:12[Music]
163. 21:37that was being done
164. 21:39the sense of security that they had and
165. 21:44the determination they demonstrated
166. 21:48while on the government side although
167. 21:50they were three times the size of the
168. 21:52RPF
169. 21:54there were about four battalions which
170. 21:57is maybe 3 000 or so that were well
171. 22:00trained I mean trained uh foreign
172. 22:51what did however change the scenario on
173. 22:54the government side was the training
174. 22:57of the interim way now that's different
175. 23:01way the Young
176. 23:06youth movement that was shifted from a
177. 23:09youth movement into a militia they
178. 23:12trained
179. 23:13they prepared they were indoctrinated
180. 23:16and they were young people young young
181. 23:20people
182. 23:21and they used
183. 23:26it is
184. 23:36[Music]
185. 23:49chief
186. 23:55s
187. 23:57Maybe
188. 24:05telling the other side what was going on
189. 24:07I said I don't have to tell anybody
190. 24:09anything I said your forces are
191. 24:11incapable of willingness
192. 24:14and that's why it became so important
193. 24:16for the French to come back
194. 24:19and to start putting their hands into it
195. 24:22let me go back to again your book
196. 24:25um especially on the uh
197. 24:37yes
198. 24:57what exactly happened on that particular
199. 25:00date that's the 5th of January and on
200. 25:03the 5th of January we're supposed to be
201. 25:05the swaying-in of the government
202. 25:08there had been
203. 25:10some
204. 25:12agreements
205. 25:47[Music]
206. 25:50attacked houses
207. 26:17is the presidential guard had deployed
208. 26:20outside of its Barracks which it was not
209. 26:23allowed
210. 26:24um
211. 26:39foreign
212. 26:47[Music]
213. 27:07and that's what happens so you end up
214. 27:09with a president with no government
215. 27:12um I read somewhere in your book
216. 27:14that you were running around to honestly
217. 27:27which has which had just been split uh I
218. 27:31remember some were saying you saying
219. 27:33that you had you know
220. 27:37foreign
221. 27:50but
222. 27:51and then it looks like though it was not
223. 27:54working out could you again share with
224. 27:56us this scenario
225. 27:58oh yes
226. 28:00and you better get the people to read
227. 28:02the book because it's it's it's
228. 28:16[Music]
229. 28:29[Music]
230. 28:55to accept foreign
231. 29:18[Music]
232. 29:28foreign
233. 29:31[Music]
234. 29:41foreign
235. 29:54people just did not want to move
236. 29:58we even went up and had big meanings
237. 30:00let's now go to what is happening today
238. 30:04um
239. 30:36I mean it doesn't that doesn't exist
240. 30:39there's no such thing as military
241. 30:40diplomacy that's an invention that
242. 30:43people are trying to put on numbers
243. 30:54[Music]
244. 31:06[Music]
245. 31:12[Music]
246. 31:42[Music]
247. 31:46the 90s
248. 31:49very few
249. 31:51of any of the missions
250. 31:54that have had mandates have lasted
251. 31:57longer than seven years
252. 31:59they have all gone back to war
253. 32:02and I've been in part of an
254. 32:03international commission looking at
255. 32:05peace
256. 32:06but this country kept moving and moving
257. 32:08and moving and then
258. 32:19numbers so
259. 32:54[Music]
260. 33:33foreign
261. 34:02thank you
262. 34:04and implementing peace agreements and to
263. 34:07that
264. 34:08then we have got to salute it and
265. 34:11recognize it for that
266. 34:14not
267. 34:15terms that try to twist the
268. 34:18reality
269. 34:19yeah he said that in uh in airport 2004
270. 34:23and four months later
271. 34:42failed to
272. 34:43take up actions during the time of need
273. 34:46of which you are now talking about
274. 34:49so what do you think could be the reason
275. 34:51that we see this narrative is coming up
276. 34:54self-interest
277. 35:01[Music]
278. 35:21[Music]
279. 35:38thousands of people foreign
280. 36:00foreign
281. 37:21to a Time
282. 37:24but everybody went to the tsunami
283. 37:28are all humans human
284. 37:31or are some humans more human than
285. 37:34others
286. 37:36do some humans count more than others
287. 37:39can one person be more human than
288. 37:41another or are we all equal
289. 37:43are we all right
290. 37:55come on
291. 38:19Imperial so the belief they would come
292. 38:22in apart from that to hell with you and
293. 38:25that's what I saw in 2005 after the
294. 38:29example
295. 38:30of the world abandoning Rwanda and
296. 38:331994. yes let's talk about the
297. 38:37remember
298. 38:40it is
299. 39:00what could be a take on that my take is
300. 39:04the following
301. 39:06um
302. 39:07when I have deployed a few times
303. 39:11Uganda
304. 39:15[Music]
305. 39:30was providing no support to the kivus
306. 39:33and so on
307. 39:34again
308. 39:40um
309. 40:02foreign
310. 40:14[Music]
311. 40:31economics
312. 40:33[Music]
313. 40:46of course
314. 40:50this is
315. 41:00perfect
316. 41:12ly
317. 41:13[Music]
318. 41:20I don't see
319. 41:22I want to really
320. 41:25really continue to to fester and so
321. 41:28that's as far as I'm going right now
322. 41:30because the things are far too fluid to
323. 41:33be able to to together a definitive
324. 41:36answer