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“BU OPERASYON HİKÂYE!” İbrahim Hacıosmanoğlu Devam Edecek mi? Yasin Kol'un İfadesi... | NABIZ — Transcript

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0:00One minute. One minute then. One minute
0:01. We got into a conflict with you. If
0:03we're going to have a conflict, let's
0:04have it fully. He's saying this while
0:05in Italy. Will he be able to say this
0:06when he comes to Istanbul on Friday?
0:08I'll cut myself, watch. Huh.
0:09>> Oh, brother.
0:09>> Brother. Those areas are a bit
0:11complicated. If we get into those, they
0:13could pack us up too. There is a
0:14president around the Mersin area.
0:16Something might come from there
0:17>> but he is not used to these levels,
0:18brother. National team.
0:23>> Hello everyone. Nabız has started with
0:25Feridun Nidelioglu. Welcome, brother.
0:27How are you?
0:27>> Glad to be here. What happened? Did it
0:29mountain labor and bring forth a mouse?
0:30>> I don't know. Is that what happened?
0:32>> What happened, brother? I mean, people
0:34were expecting that the issue would be
0:36resolved at length, that the structure
0:38built over Fenerbahçe for years would
0:40be exposed, and then that documents and
0:42information proving that championships
0:44were stolen would emerge—did they?
0:47Man, this is like the gossip
0:49environment of wives in Ottoman harems
0:52who wanted to be close to the Sultan.
0:56They couldn't stand each other. They
0:58gossiped behind each other's backs. You
1:00know, there are some trivialities in
1:01our media too. They created a nonsense
1:04situation of lies and discord among
1:06themselves just like them. Ali, is
1:08there anything substantial here?
1:10>> Currently
1:10>> Ferhat Günoğlu being detained is due
1:13to KVKK, actually, forgery of documents
1:15.
1:16>> Forgery of documents
1:17>> I mean, is there any forgery in a
1:19document that affected a match of
1:21Fenerbahçe, Galatasaray, Beşiktaş,
1:24Trabzon, or anyone else in any way?
1:26What is there? Nothing in that
1:27direction has emerged. Meaning, there
1:29is nothing we can call match-fixing.
1:31>> None. So, there is no match-fixing.
1:33Right? I mean, are there any
1:35earth-shattering proofs that would take
1:36a championship from one team and give
1:38it to another?
1:39>> None.
1:39>> Now, some are taking credit for
1:41themselves. One side says look, Ali
1:43Koç came out and spoke. One side comes
1:45out, Aziz Yıldırım explained the "
1:46deep" ones, it came from there. Dursun
1:48Özbek said, well we said this, we said
1:50that. A story, you know? Things they
1:52always say. But one second.
1:54>> But one second, brother. Okay, as you
1:56said, those kinds of things don't exist
1:58, but there is something like this here
2:00. I want to appoint this referee to
2:02this match. Well, why is that then?
2:04>> Which one, who? Who?
2:05>> İbrahim Hacıosmanoğlu's, one minute.
2:07He has a text exchange with the
2:09Trabzonspor president. Is that what you
2:10mean?
2:10>> Exactly.
2:11>> Yeah. What does it say? Don't assign
2:13this one to me. 50 million, I've been
2:15doing this job for 100 years. I have at
2:16least one president or manager who
2:17hasn't said "for 100 years". They used
2:19to call on the phone and say this in
2:20the past. There was no messaging back
2:22then. You mean this is ordinary, then?
2:23>> It is ordinary, brother, a person might
2:25not want them. Don't presidents and
2:27managers go on live TV after the match
2:29and say, "Çağatay, this guy shouldn't
2:31take our matches again"? Didn't Aziz
2:33Yıldırım say before, "I'll take the
2:34chair and put it there"? If you take
2:36this referee. That's a bigger crime
2:37then.
2:38>> But in the referees 'correspondence,
2:39for instance, let's say, there are
2:41these things, eh, I don't want to say
2:43anything wrong now.
2:43>> Say it, say it, say it.
2:44>> Things are being discussed, like "we
2:46will bring the referees we want to a
2:48certain point.""We will weed out the
2:50ones who don't fit us." Now, why are
2:52the referees being culled by Ibrahim
2:54Haci Osman?
2:54>> All right. It is a problem that the
2:57Turkish Football Federation President
2:59Ibrahim Haciosmanoglu, as a federation
3:01president, tells the MHK president to
3:03send these referees away. Look, this is
3:06a problem, but is there a situation
3:08that concerns our football family in
3:09this? There is only a situation that
3:11concerns the federation side. And there
3:13is no one who feels distressed by this.
3:15Ibrahim Hoca stated that he would not
3:16leave Osman anyway. Okay? There is a
3:18message from the Trabzon president.
3:20There is his forwarding it to the MHK
3:21president. These are a bit confusing,
3:23you understand? For people, but this is
3:25a structure that will affect the league
3:27, that will affect the matches. This is
3:29not what we call a structure. This is
3:30exactly not the structure. If this were
3:32the structure, everything would be
3:34solved. How matches were manipulated
3:36would be solved. Is there any clear and
3:38explicit correspondence or anything
3:40where a referee tells another referee,
3:41or a central referee board president
3:43tells his referee that you will give
3:44this result in this match? No. They
3:46could do it like this. He goes and
3:48meets with that referee privately. He
3:51says, manipulate this match like this.
3:52And there is no evidence for this
3:53either. Then how will it happen? There
3:55is no clear information or document.
3:57>> True. That evidence is missing. That
3:59evidence is missing, but people's
4:00opinion is, we said that the central
4:01referee board president should not have
4:02sat in that seat in the first place,
4:04right?
4:05>> True. Everyone said this. Now, the
4:07reason for this Central Referee Board
4:09president leaving this seat, one way or
4:11another, was him going to prison. If he
4:13had resigned earlier, maybe he wouldn't
4:15have gone to prison. If he stays there
4:17for 3-5 days, he will get out after
4:18that. He will be tried without arrest.
4:20Then they will give him a travel ban
4:22and he will sign in like us. He will
4:24sit down, it will end. You understand?
4:26>> But I am trying to explain this,
4:28brother. There is not a single clear
4:31thing that is substantial. Everyone has
4:34gossiped behind each other's backs.
4:36There was tampering with that document.
4:38He said Ali this and that. He filed a
4:40lawsuit in Antalya. After that lawsuit,
4:41the documents were delivered to someone
4:43. They came out and made a statement.
4:45And it is being followed up on that.
4:47Okay, but there was the Izmir story.
4:50The March 8th operation was carried out
4:52. They were blaming Nihat Ozdemir. Look
4:54, you had talked to Ibrahim Seten.
4:55Servet Yardimci, Nihat Ozdemir. So who
4:58brought in the guy? The Central Referee
5:01Board President Ferhat Gundogdu to the
5:02duty today. One of the men of those
5:05days, Ecmettin Sarki, the former
5:07president of Istanbulspor, recommended
5:09him. Nihat Ozdemir turned out to be
5:11innocent there. What can you say to
5:13Nihat Ozdemir now? For days, for months
5:15, people talked about this as if he had
5:17brought this man. Fenerbahce fans
5:20attacked. Nihat Ozdemir is already a
5:21target. He brought this man too. They
5:23said his relative was a FETO member.
5:26You know these things, you know. And it
5:28turned out the man had no such
5:30connection. There is a stationer in our
5:32neighborhood. He was his relative. Let
5:33me say that too. Yeah. Central Referee
5:35Board President. Anyway, at the point
5:37we have reached, let's get to the main
5:40issue. I mean, people, all media,
5:42social media, especially people said,
5:44we found it, we caught it. Okay? The
5:47entire media, social media included,
5:49shouted and screamed as if they had
5:52found a cure for cancer or sent a
5:54shuttle into space. I said there was
5:56this structure, it was like this, it
5:58was like that. Man, where is this
5:59structure, brother? I mean, where? But
6:01now I...
6:02>> Look, we experienced July 3rd, where a
6:03match was influenced. Even when the men
6:06who went through July 3rd went to
6:08prison, it took 15 days for them to
6:10even process what had happened to them,
6:12reading the documents and all that.
6:14Alright? This process developed very
6:16quickly. It came out just like that,
6:18click-clack. Following that, the
6:19federation acted without even following
6:21the prosecutor's order. They also
6:23announced the people. We were saying
6:25they would announce 2500 people, we
6:26were saying there were club executives
6:28in there too. They included them when
6:30it first started, but actually there
6:31are [redacted] number of names there.
6:33There are allegations that people who
6:35played in all four major clubs also bet
6:36on their own matches. For instance,
6:38this is the main issue. These are the
6:40big problems. I don't know if these
6:43will come out or not, but what I heard
6:45is that the prosecutor's office is
6:46investigating all four clubs, and that
6:49four executives played on their own
6:50matches. Those names might be different
6:53names. You know, there's Davut Dişli's
6:55son. There's Ali Yüce, our guy. Uh,
6:57Ahmet Yüce's son. Turn to that side.
6:59He wasn't an executive back then either
7:01. Uh, who else? Davut İşinoğlu,
7:03there is Chairman Mecnun's son. They
7:06already brought them out, anyway.
7:07Ibrahim Hacıosmanoğlu was saying, "
7:08Even if it's us, it will come out."
7:09Right? The betting thing.
7:10>> Yeah, the betting business.
7:11>> It's another matter, brother. Now...
7:13>> Yeah, now that has come out. On top of
7:15that. Look, there are some things here.
7:16I spoke with some people at the
7:18football federation. The Union of Clubs
7:19is nowhere to be seen anyway. The
7:20situation is already a mess because it
7:22was announced that its chairman played
7:23bets. Let me tell you that too. Some
7:25things are divided because of Trabzon
7:27President Ertuğrul Doğan.
7:30>> Some powers and some balances are
7:31working quite differently. That's why,
7:34Ibrahim Hacıosmanoğlu, what did you
7:36say today, Ali?
7:37>> On one hand, Yasin Kol is also...
7:40>> He too will likely be released any day
7:42now. What is the alleged crime?
7:45>> Illegal betting, I suppose.
7:47>> I mean. What? By the way, let's not mix
7:50up Ertuğrul Doğan, sorry, I keep
7:53interrupting you because you know I
7:55forget.
7:56>> I know, I know.
7:57>> Right now, Ibrahim Hacıosmanoğlu and
7:58his management are in Italy. There is a
8:00match this evening, right?
8:01>> Uh-huh.
8:02>> According to the result of that match,
8:03Ibrahim Hacıosmanoğlu's delegation is
8:05going to UEFA on Wednesday or Thursday.
8:06They will come back afterward. They
8:08don't know what will happen either.
8:09Don't you look at it that way. They say
8:10, "We aren't letting go." They say, "We
8:12are standing tall behind him." The
8:13managers say they are standing tall
8:14themselves, and they are standing tall
8:15there. Who knows what the result of the
8:17match in Italy will be; as for what
8:18happens to Montella after the match,
8:20the decision will be made at the
8:21meeting on Friday. If it has come down
8:23to this match, still Montella...
8:24>> I tell you, that's another matter,
8:25that's commentary.
8:26>> That's the sports side of things,
8:27brother, we are talking about the other
8:28side.
8:29>> Comment: We will see this on Friday,
8:31look, on Friday, we need to
8:32congratulate Mehmet Aslan in Hürriyet
8:34today, he has been doing good
8:36journalism for years, and he asked
8:38İbrahim Hacı Osmanoğlu exactly what
8:40everyone was curious about. And
8:41İbrahim Hacı Osmanoğlu answered him.
8:43Now, initially, İbrahim Hacı
8:46Osmanoğlu and his administration
8:48basically stirred up a hornet's nest.
8:51There is a problem there. When you do
8:53things that some people don't want,
8:55then problems arise. Now, İbrahim
8:57Hacı Osmanoğlu says, "I am standing
8:58firm." I know he says, "No matter how
9:01many of my friends resign with me, we
9:02will see what happens at the board
9:04meeting that day, on Friday." Okay?
9:07>> I know he says, "We are continuing on
9:09our path." But he is saying this while
9:11in Italy. Will he be able to say the
9:12same when he comes to Istanbul on
9:13Friday? That is the question mark. Let
9:15me state that here today. Turkish
9:18football might be faced with a
9:19completely different picture on Friday.
9:22Let me say that here. We will open it
9:24up, but I say this because opening it
9:25might cause problems for us too.
9:26Because there is a clash of powers. Let
9:28us not get crushed within that clash of
9:30powers.
9:31>> Let us not get caught in the middle.
9:32>> Let us not get stirred up. That is why,
9:33regarding the things we know, with
9:35İbrahim Hacı Osmanoğlu making these
9:36statements today and saying, "I am
9:38standing firm, I am not leaving, I am
9:39not leaving until the congress,"
9:41>> he has his words. Okay? He has also
9:43said, "You cannot load the burden of 20
9:45or 30 years onto me." And he is right
9:47about that. He is right. He is right.
9:49>> He is right about the issues he
9:50mentions. But the issues he is talking
9:51about are not the current issues. The
9:53current issues are completely different
9:54things.
9:54>> There is something entirely different
9:56happening right now. Look, we haven't
9:57even seen the reflections of the chaos
9:59yet, Ali. Look, you will see, you will
10:02try to bring in a manager. They will
10:04say, as that person said, uh, what was
10:06his name, the one in charge of the
10:08Portuguese national team?
10:10>> Jorge Jesus.
10:10>> As Jorge Jesus said, "This league has
10:13no reality," no one will believe. You
10:15won't be able to bring a coach. You
10:16will call a player, and the man will
10:18either want more money to come or say
10:19that there is no reality here anyway.
10:21Something is always happening here. The
10:22referee, the Central Referee Board, the
10:24player will say, "There are rumors that
10:26matches are being manipulated." They
10:28won't come. And then you will lose
10:30sponsorships. All our clubs will
10:32experience this. Why should we sponsor,
10:35brother? There is always chaos.
10:36Everything is always in a mess. It is
10:38obvious that there is not a
10:40consistently fair management. Okay?
10:43Because they couldn't stand each other.
10:44An untalented referee criticized a
10:46talented one. A talented referee
10:47undermined the other. They gossiped
10:49about each other. They were jealous of
10:51one another. This exists in every
10:53workplace. Look, I have been doing this
10:55job for 42 years. In every workplace,
10:57some people couldn't stand others. They
10:58did things to undermine them. The issue
11:00here, the story regarding the referees,
11:02is entirely this. And now you will
11:04return, you will come. The fans already
11:06don't believe. Fenerbahçe fans
11:08definitely don't believe in the matches
11:10. Look, Fenerbahçe fans definitely
11:12don't believe. They don't think the
11:13wrong team was built. They don't think
11:15the wrong coach was hired. They only
11:17believe that there is a structure
11:18involving the Central Referee Board,
11:20the federation, or the referees on the
11:21pitch that is preventing them from
11:23becoming champions. For instance, what
11:25can you say? Can you say they are right
11:27about anything?
11:27>> Well, it’s no different with
11:28Beşiktaş.
11:29>> because. Beşiktaş is the same too.
11:30Beşiktaş is the same. And Trabzon
11:32speaks out sometimes too. Is that right
11:33? They even spoke after the match they
11:35won, after the Trabzon Galatasaray
11:37match. So, there is an environment of
11:39mistrust prevailing here. At the point
11:42this atmosphere of mistrust has reached
11:44, you have this...look, the
11:45broadcasting tender is also coming up.
11:48You won't be able to sell it. You
11:50experienced major chaos just when you
11:51held your biggest trump card in your
11:53hand. An incredible chaos has formed in
11:55the football family right now. How are
11:57you going to market it? $ 400 million
11:59figures were being discussed. You were
12:01going to go up there from $ 87 million.
12:03A world of transfers was made. Stars
12:04were brought in. This year all four
12:07teams are sharp, Galatasaray is
12:08faltering a bit, etc. Beşiktaş
12:10recovered, right, with their coach?
12:12After Ismail Hoca's resignation and
12:14return, the team recovered and got
12:16itself together. Yeah.
12:17>> I mean, you could market the sports
12:19package not as a sports package, but as
12:22a soap opera, tabloid gossip, this and
12:24that. Many people follow it, I think.
12:26>> But, there is no value left, Çağatay.
12:29I don't know.
12:29>> The game on the field loses its value,
12:31and I don't know how much we are even
12:32watching the field, that's another
12:33issue, brother. Because we were saying
12:35these referees couldn't manage. We were
12:37saying they were incompetent. Ibrahim
12:38Seten explained the March 8 operation.
12:41Nobody, including Serdar Tatlı, still
12:43says anything about what happened
12:44yesterday. They are still trying to
12:47bring Serdar Tatlı to duty at the MHK.
12:49I mean, they say there is no perfect
12:51person. They say, "Tell us who we
12:53should bring." I said, bring a
12:54foreigner at least, the football
12:55federation.
12:57>> It’s an organization, brother, I mean
12:58, what kind of organization is this...
13:00you say let’s change it from top to
13:02bottom, but it still doesn't work, man.
13:04>> You tell them, but no one speaks up.
13:06>> Look, let’s say they called them
13:07FETÖ members. As Ibrahim
13:09Hacıosmanoğlu said, he doesn't have
13:10such a right to label everyone out of
13:12nowhere; 90%of them had nothing to do
13:14with those things. They burned those
13:16referees too. The main problem is those
13:18referees being left out. The referees
13:21after the March 8 operation thought
13:22their rights were violated and filed
13:24lawsuits, and they were proven right.
13:26The main reason things have come to
13:27this point is this. They made
13:28incompetent referees officiate matches.
13:30Football teams experienced very serious
13:32problems in countless matches. Isn't it
13:34a shame? I am only glad that it was
13:36revealed they were not manipulated out
13:38of ignorance. On one side they mention
13:40Barış Yurduseven. On the other side
13:42they mention Erman Toroğlu. How can
13:43they do these things, man? How could
13:45Barış do it? He wouldn't do it. He
13:47doesn't have such a right or such power
13:48. I mean, a referee came out and said
13:51Erman Toroğlu and Ahmet Çakar were
13:53influential in these matters. Good
13:55heavens. They said they were taking
13:56money or something. All three of them
13:57are going to sue now. Where are you
13:59getting these from? Because why?
14:00Because they didn't say anything good
14:02about them, because they told them they
14:03were incompetent and told them to their
14:05faces, they are trying to report them.
14:07We are just that simple. We always
14:09drown in a shallow creek like this.
14:12While trying to drain the swamp, we all
14:14try to squeeze into the tiny bit of
14:15swamp left inside the small swamp. And
14:18those who make an effort to fix things,
14:20there you go, that’s how it ends up.
14:22You shouldn't leave yourself open to
14:23criticism, Ibrahim Hacıosmanoğlu, you
14:24understand? You’re a man of many
14:26years. How are you leaving yourself
14:27open like that? You send a message to
14:28the Central Referee Committee, saying,
14:29"The Trabzon president is not
14:30processing this." You do something else
14:31to the other one. "These referees are
14:32FETO members." You say, "We need to
14:34purge all of them." Who do you think
14:35you are? But an employer can hire
14:37whoever he wants and not hire whoever
14:39he doesn't want. There's that side to
14:41it too, isn't there, Çağtay?
14:43>> I can't see your face now, but you
14:45weren't pleased with what I said today
14:46at all.
14:47>> No, because brother
14:48>> I understood that.
14:48>> No, no, we said it, look
14:49>> I'll cut myself, really. Ha
14:51>> oh, brother
14:52>> brother, I’m a person who is easy to
14:53persuade, but my mind is stuck on this
14:55point.
14:55>> This process didn't convince me. The
14:57operation didn't convince me.
14:58>> Look, why would the Central Referee
15:00Committee want to create a group of
15:02referees who never deviate from what
15:04they are told? How do they use this?
15:06Where do they use it?
15:07>> One minute. One minute. Good. Now,
15:09brother, you are a business owner,
15:11right? You have sycophants around you,
15:13but you don't know they can't do the
15:15work. And do you want to keep them?
15:17Always gossiping, constantly trying to
15:19appoint people somewhere, trying to get
15:22more matches, and so on. We have that
15:24here in our workplaces too, right? Is
15:25this it, then? Is this the main issue?
15:27A man builds the team he wants, brother
15:29. He's the boss. Can't the boss hire
15:31whoever he wants and fire whoever he
15:32wants? Doesn't this happen in
15:33workplaces? Aren't there informants?
15:35Isn't there someone who goes, "Hey, Ali
15:38is slacking off, Çağtay isn't doing
15:40this, and Ferudun is always talking
15:41nonsense anyway"? Yes, there is. These
15:44rumors exist in every workplace. That's
15:46why, Çağtay, when you come into power
15:48, it's the same in governments. It's
15:49the same in clubs, too. That's exactly
15:51what we're angry about. When Ali Koç
15:52arrived at Fenerbahçe, he fired a
15:54whole world of people from the Aziz
15:56Yıldırım era. He hired new people
15:58for five times the salary they were
16:00getting. Saadettin Saran came in. He's
16:02only going to be president for 7 or 8
16:03more months. He fired a whole world of
16:05people. He brought a whole world of
16:07people into the club. And Aziz
16:09Yıldırım came back. He fired some
16:11people who were perhaps completely
16:12innocent. He'll be gone at the end of
16:14the season in a year. He hired a ton of
16:15people too. Look, this is what happens.
16:18It's in the nature of this business.
16:19You work with people you trust. You
16:21don't work with people you don't trust.
16:23You work with people who listen to you
16:25and respect you. That's why, perhaps,
16:26the job done by the Central Referee
16:28Committee President and the job done by
16:30the Football Federation President
16:31İbrahim Hacıosmanoğlu was this. The
16:33people they trusted. But most of the
16:36people they trusted were gossiping,
16:38divisive, uneducated, and incompetent
16:40men. Because look, Aziz Bey says, "Pay
16:43attention, that man's words eventually
16:44always come true." He said, "Take a
16:46one-year break if necessary." Look,
16:48President Serdar was elected again,
16:50congratulations to him. Our brothers
16:52and friends also joined his
16:53administration. Good luck to them as
16:54well. Look, he also said, "Let's
16:56postpone it for a week or ten days."
16:59And now, the people within the Central
17:01Referee Committee, whose opinions were
17:03sought and who went to court, came and
17:05appointed the referees. They sidelined
17:09one referee. The incident involves
17:11Yasin Kol, whom everyone trusts and
17:13believes in, especially many
17:15Fenerbahçe fans. Now, he will be
17:17dropped tomorrow or the day after.
17:18Because nothing will come of that
17:19either. Let me tell you. I’m saying
17:21it today. In other words, there's a
17:23huge mountain, but only a tiny mouse.
17:25That’s all.
17:26>> I am still feeling something. Our media
17:28loves it so much. I’m very sorry,
17:30Çağday.
17:30>> They love it so much, as if they’ve
17:33found a great scoop. My God, the things
17:36people do to praise someone, to suck up
17:38to them, or to criticize and tear
17:41someone else down. My stomach turns
17:44just listening to it.
17:45>> But brother, I don't think it’s just
17:47as you say. But I don’t think it's
17:49the other way either. Wait a minute
17:51then. Wait a minute. We’ve gotten
17:52into a conflict.
17:53>> If we’re going to get into a conflict
17:54, let’s go all the way.
17:55>> Fine. Let me tell you something. Let me
17:57tell you what’s on my mind. Say it,
17:58for instance, you didn't believe me. I
18:01understood that.
18:02>> No, no, it’s not that I didn’t
18:03believe you. I think, yes, they might
18:05want to work with the people they
18:07prefer, as you say, but at the same
18:09time, it feels like they are trying to
18:11create a certain atmosphere. Not like,
18:13let's push one club for the
18:14championship and put them ahead of the
18:16other, but rather...
18:17>> What part of it concerns you? It’s
18:19not that part.
18:19>> It’s not that, but I think, for
18:21example, I think that...
18:22>> Have they manipulated the matches? Have
18:24they influenced the results of the
18:25matches? I’ll put it this way.
18:27>> It might have happened due to
18:29incompetence, but is there any document
18:30, paper, or referee statement where the
18:32person called the Central Referee Board
18:34President and İbrahim Acon Osmanoğlu
18:36said, "Manipulate this match," and
18:38there’s also talk of mobbing? Well,
18:41you can't work, and the man says you
18:43can't work. He’s mobbing you.
18:45>> No, I mean this: for example, Burak
18:47Yılmaz made a statement, so let's
18:49annoy Burak Yılmaz. Do you understand?
18:50I mean, it's not like, let's take the
18:52match and give it to him. Burak
18:53Yılmaz’s team won't win penalties so
18:55easily. If Burak Yılmaz’s players
18:57are getting a yellow card, they’ll
18:58get a red. I’m just using one person
19:00as an example right now, but...
19:01>> Wait a minute, brother. Has anything
19:02like that been said?
19:03>> That’s what it brings to my mind.
19:05>> That’s what I’m telling you. Has it
19:07been said?
19:07>> No, dear, nothing like that has been
19:08said.
19:08>> No document, information, paper,
19:10conversation text, or confession.
19:12>> True, true. But if the TFF is trying to
19:14form a group of referees that act in
19:16the direction they want, that’s what
19:17immediately comes to my mind. It means
19:20they are pursuing these things, which
19:21is why they are building such a team.
19:23It creates that feeling.
19:24>> You’re saying it nicely, but the
19:26public also wonders, is there anyone
19:28with the guts to actually do this?
19:31>> But when they send someone to that
19:33match, they don't say, "Give few
19:35penalties for Burak.""Give many
19:37penalties, for or against him."
19:38>> I don’t think there’s a need to say
19:40this now. It won't happen on its own.
19:41No, for heaven's sake. Please don’t
19:44do this. Is this job this simple? Oh,
19:47where have we ended up? For example,
19:49Yasin Kol’s appointment as a referee
19:50doesn't seem normal to me.
19:52>> Look, a huge, huge scandal. Now, some
19:54people form friendships with others. We
19:57have our boss here. Don't we consult
19:59each other, for example? Who am I next
20:01to him? I'm just a member of the staff,
20:03for instance. A salaried employee. But
20:05when the time comes, Ferudun brother,
20:07the new season is starting. He asks, "
20:09What kind of plan should we make?" Now,
20:12Yasin Kol is also Ibrahim
20:13Haciosmanoglu's favorite referee. I
20:16mean, many people in the media liked
20:18him too, right? I suppose I didn't like
20:21his referees.
20:22>> I mean, his refereeing...
20:24>> I think his skills are lacking.
20:26>> I don't think so.
20:27>> I don't think he is talented. I've
20:29always said this, but looking from here
20:31, do you think he's talented?
20:32>> No. No. Absolutely not.
20:34>> Oh Ali, he's at odds with you and
20:35Cagtay.
20:36>> I don't think he has that level of
20:37competence, brother. He's going to
20:38referee. I mean, here, Cagtay, look, no
20:41one can do this, brother. Especially
20:43after what happened on July 3rd, Cagtay
20:45, can you see me?
20:46>> I see you, brother.
20:46>> Okay? After July 3rd, after these
20:49betting issues emerged, look, they
20:52would go after anyone who dared to do
20:54such things. Especially today, they
20:57wouldn't let you breathe in this
20:58country. Look, you and some people take
21:02things too lightly. They won't let you
21:04breathe. They'll find you in a second.
21:05This state's prosecutors, judges, and
21:08national intelligence work amazingly
21:10well. Let me tell you that much. Look,
21:12you won't even be able to find your
21:13place. I mean, I can't even explain it.
21:14>> Then the whole place was stirred up for
21:15nothing.
21:16>> That's what I'm saying. It was stirred
21:17up for nothing. There is nothing
21:18substantial. Our football community
21:21suffered great damage. It experienced
21:23very, very, very great trouble. We were
21:26going to talk about Fenerbahce.
21:28Fenerbahce and Besiktas are building
21:29teams. Now, after the international
21:31break, the teams have recovered. Look,
21:33Fenerbahce went and played a match in
21:34Azerbaijan. There was a player
21:36substitution. That whole thing was pure
21:39comedy. My God, there's no such rule,
21:41but they just implemented it. They did
21:43it like brothers. That won't do.
21:44There's the FIFA side, it's falling
21:47under a FIFA organization, right? You
21:49shouldn't do everything of ours like
21:50this, brother. Anyway, in short, let's
21:53get into it and provide the news.
21:55>> Uh.
21:56>> Otherwise, I understand exactly what
21:58you're saying very well, by the way. Uh
22:00, asking the federation president to
22:02have a certain referee manage your
22:04match is one thing, saying "don't let
22:05this referee manage my match" is
22:07another. These are very, very different
22:09things.
22:10>> Secondly, secondly, one of Ibrahim
22:12Haciosmanoglu's biggest mistakes there.
22:15Uh, for him to stand up and say, "These
22:17guys are FETO members, let's filter
22:19them out, let's send them away." The
22:21men filed lawsuits, and nothing came of
22:22it. It's a pity, there's no problem
22:23with 90%of them. You shouldn't get into
22:25those things without knowing for sure.
22:27Because in the period after March 8th,
22:29some referees who were left out—just
22:32as Ibrahim Haciosmanoglu said, those
22:34being pushed out—filed lawsuits this
22:36time. Because they knew that many of
22:38the people inside were untalented. They
22:40knew the people coming in to replace
22:42them wouldn't be able to establish
22:44themselves in the football community.
22:45And that's really how it is. Honestly,
22:47there isn't a single decent referee.
22:49And they even beat up that one decent
22:51referee. Halil Umut Meler, he's gone
22:53too, right?
22:54>> Correct. Is there a Cüneyt Çakır, an
22:56Erman Toroğlu, or an Ahmet Çakar?
22:57Yeah.
22:58>> There isn't, man. They tried to do that
22:59too. That didn't work either. They
23:00tried to do it based on the
23:01correspondence they saw. That didn't
23:03>> work. It just didn't work. Because it's
23:05always a network of gossip. Turkish
23:06society these days is living out their
23:08lives the way they live on social media
23:10, which they think is reality. Everyone
23:12thinks they are very valuable. Everyone
23:14thinks they are so knowledgeable, so
23:16unreachable, so handsome, so beautiful,
23:19and so on. I swear, this society is
23:21going through such decay right now. And
23:23their lives are all about talking
23:26behind others' backs, gossiping, sowing
23:29discord, tearing people down, spreading
23:31rumors—these are end-times things.
23:35Anyway, let's move on, we talked about
23:37the federation side. Let's get into
23:38some facts. First of all, they say they
23:40are all standing behind the federation
23:42president. Including the executives,
23:44they said they will go to the FIFA and
23:46UEFA meetings. He will return from
23:48there. A meeting will be held on Friday
23:49. He will attend the meeting here. The
23:51board will make a decision on Montella.
23:53They will express their views regarding
23:55the president's decision on whether to
23:56continue or not, and whether to call
23:57for an extraordinary congress. Those
23:59who want to stay will stay. To those
24:00who want to leave, they will be shown
24:02the door. No matter how many leave,
24:03they can leave. You know, even if only
24:048 people remain out of the 20-something
24:06, the federation can still be managed.
24:088 people can stay. Ibrahim Seten said
24:09it yesterday. He did a very good, very
24:11nice program. I honestly congratulate
24:13him. It was packed, he really clarified
24:15a lot of topics.
24:16>> In terms of journalism, they both
24:18explained this March 8th incident and
24:21said who brought in the Central Referee
24:23Committee Chairman. It was a very good
24:25program that looked into Nihat Özdemir
24:27and Servet Yardımcı. Ibrahim
24:28Hacıosmanoğlu and Mehmet Arslan
24:30talked about the journalism behind this
24:32information. Mehmet Arslan dropped a
24:33subtle hint and then published it in
24:35his newspaper. He knows how to handle
24:37those things very well. He showed
24:39something subtle without making it seem
24:40like an interview. Boom. That was good
24:42journalism back in our day. You know
24:44what I mean?
24:45>> Yes.
24:45>> No one would tip off anyone else. Look,
24:47when I provided the information that
24:49Aziz Yıldırım would resign in 2006,
24:50Ibrahim Seten didn't put it in the
24:52newspaper. I was so frustrated with the
24:55guy, I was at my limit with Ibrahim.
24:58>> I'm telling him the guy is holding a
24:59press conference tomorrow at 12, I'm
25:00giving him the reasons, saying he's
25:02quitting, and he won't put it in the
25:03paper. He's talking here, talking there
25:05. He even talked to Nihat Özdemir.
25:07Even Nihat Özdemir said, "There's no
25:09such information, there's no
25:10resignation." Okay? A few people misled
25:13him like that. They didn't put the news
25:14in the paper. I got angry too. Look, I
25:16was explaining it clearly. I got angry.
25:18I called Yalçın Türk. He was at our
25:19Fanatik newspaper. He was working under
25:21Necil Ülgen. I said, "My newspaper
25:22isn't running it.""Here's the scoop of
25:24the year for you.""Aziz Yıldırım is
25:25resigning tomorrow at 12:00.""He will
25:27hold a meeting at the club headquarters
25:28.""He will call the media in the
25:30morning.""Okay?""You'll see," I said.
25:33Yalçın Türk put the story in Fanatik
25:34, Mehmet. Look at that. Interesting.
25:37Then it was around 11:30 at night. I
25:39called Mehmet Arslan. The sports editor
25:40of Hürriyet. I said Mehmet. He is a
25:42very old friend of mine, too. I said
25:44Mehmet, you're my brother, my elder of
25:46course, but we have a good bond in our
25:48profession, he is my friend. I said
25:51Mehmet, there is such and such a
25:52situation. Ferudun, it's a very risky
25:54story, he said. I said, for God's sake,
25:56we can't run it. I said, you take the
25:57bread and eat it. I said that I had
25:59told Yalçın as well. Wait, he said,
26:00let me look into it. It's a delicate
26:02story, he said. Let me check it out, he
26:03said. He researched and researched and
26:05researched, supposedly. It was all a
26:07show, of course. You know, there are
26:09such dirty tricks in journalism. I call
26:10at night, he doesn't answer, he doesn't
26:11call back. Then he called back and said
26:13, I'm still looking, I'm waiting for
26:14news from some places. He called me
26:15just as the newspaper was about to go
26:17to print. Okay? The provincial edition
26:19is going out. They'll switch to the
26:21Istanbul edition.
26:22>> Is it two or two-thirty at night? He
26:24said, "I swear, Ferudun, I knew the
26:26story before you even called." I had
26:28even made it a full-page headline in
26:30the paper. Ertuğrul Özkök and others
26:31had already talked to Mehmet Aslan
26:33anyway.
26:33>> Exactly.
26:34>> Okay? They had learned the information.
26:36They prepared the page while pretending
26:37they didn't know. Do you understand?
26:39>> I understand. I understand.
26:40>> Afterwards, we, meaning Mehmet Aslan,
26:42ran the story in Hürriyet. Even if I
26:43told İbrahim Seten to run it, it would
26:45have been too late by those hours.
26:46Because even the setup for that was
26:48done by Mehmet Aslan. So, the story
26:50Mehmet Aslan did today is also
26:52journalism. In the amazing broadcast
26:55İbrahim Seten did yesterday, I really
26:57love this profession. Believe me, I
27:00don't care about anyone, Çağtay. I
27:02wouldn't know my own father's son. Look
27:04, let me be clear. All club presidents,
27:06executives, and the people I work with
27:07at the newspaper know this about my
27:09profession. Sometimes our tongue isn't
27:11enough to speak the truth. We might be
27:12saying things wrong or incompletely. We
27:14might not be expressing opinions like
27:16everyone else's. Everything could be
27:18the opposite. Because I have always
27:19been the guy who questions. And I was
27:20never liked for it. Not by club
27:22presidents, executives, or any coach or
27:24anyone like that. But those who know us
27:27know, pardon me. That's why the
27:29federation is meeting this Friday. They
27:31will make a decision based on the
27:33result of tonight's match. That's the
27:35first thing. The second is that it's as
27:37if İbrahim Hoca Osmanoğlu is
27:38determined to continue even if only 8
27:40people remain. But some powers might
27:42say, "You can't sit in that seat
27:43anymore." They might even say goodbye.
27:45He could also make a sudden decision
27:47for a congress. Nobody might say
27:48anything either. As İbrahim Hoca
27:51Osmanoğlu said, maybe 6 people out of
27:52those 20-something people on the board
27:54will leave. They will be left with 14
27:56people. With 14 or 12 people, they
27:58could finish the season. I asked, "Are
28:01you going to appoint a head of the
28:03Central Referee Committee?" and they
28:05say, "Give us one flawless man." Now,
28:06name Serdar Tatlı, name this person,
28:07name that person. The guys are right,
28:09in a way. I said, "Bring a foreigner
28:11then, brother, a foreigner." Well, that
28:13doesn't work. They can't bring a
28:14foreigner either. That's my opinion. We
28:16love foreigners as the Turkish society.
28:18But they are very, very fair. They are
28:21very much things. There’s at least a
28:23slight sense of respecting the
28:25decisions they make, right, Çağtay?
28:27Well, you have to think that way
28:28because he didn't grow up here, brother
28:29.
28:30>> Yeah. I mean, human beings are prone to
28:32mistakes, my brother. Don't you see the
28:34footballers who come here, even the
28:35foreign ones, throwing themselves on
28:36the ground? Well, that's true, but in
28:38any case, it's definitely going to be
28:39better than what we have here in this
28:40environment.
28:41>> Yes. I mean, it seems to me that some
28:44forces showed a bit of strength toward
28:46the federation after those betting
28:48files suddenly exploded. Well, İbrahim
28:51Hacıosmanoğlu is continuing for today
28:53. What will happen at the meeting on
28:56Friday? When they come to Istanbul, who
28:59will send what message, what kind of
29:01message, what they will do, or if no
29:03message comes and they keep going, I
29:05don't know. Those areas are a bit
29:06complicated. If we get into those, they
29:08could pack us up too. Things are a bit
29:11tricky there. That's why he will talk
29:14about the Montella issue. So, who is
29:16perfect to be the Central Referee Board
29:18Chairman? I mean, who should we bring
29:20in? You reach out to Serdar Tatlı,
29:21someone says something. You reach out
29:23to another one, someone else says
29:24something. Even if nobody says anything
29:26, the referees do. Because there are
29:28those who were annoyed with him back in
29:29Serdar Tatlı’s time and during the
29:31March 8th operation, right? And others
29:33are annoyed with someone else, and
29:35others with another. I mean, how will
29:37this work? What?
29:38>> We’ll do an extra program with you
29:39this week. Let me tell you. There will
29:42be a lot going on, we’ll do it this
29:44week too, but the important thing is
29:46that we need to pour some comfort into
29:48the hearts of the public, the people
29:50who truly put effort into football,
29:52invest money, and dedicate their time,
29:54the sponsors. Look, this operation is
29:57just a story. A completely empty story,
29:59look. A completely empty one, and Mr.
30:01Ferhat will come out in two days too.
30:02The only right thing for him is to
30:04submit his resignation from there. If
30:07he had resigned earlier, knowing so
30:08many people don't want him...If he
30:10hadn't said "I'm still trying to stand
30:11tall in my own way, according to my own
30:13truths" and had just resigned, maybe
30:15this operation wouldn't even have
30:16happened today. Look, even this case
30:18opened in Antalya a year ago might not
30:20have come to the agenda today. Because
30:22it's an empty story.
30:23>> You think nothing will happen. Yes, but
30:25regarding the federation president, as
30:27Mehmet Hassan wrote in Hürriyet today
30:30on Friday, we are standing tall behind
30:32him. Read that, read it a bit. Are we
30:34going to be stuck with the bill for 25
30:36or 30 years of weird, weird things?
30:38>> Today is Monday, brother, and many
30:40things are not clear yet. Friday.
30:42>> Galatasaray has a match. The season
30:45will continue. Yeah.
30:46>> Friday.
30:46>> So what will be the fate of the leagues
30:48?
30:48>> Friday match star...
30:49>> So what will be the fate of the leagues
30:50? Did something happen? Is there
30:53anything missing? Is there anything
30:55missing right now?
30:57>> I mean, they appointed the referees.
30:59Are all the referees and VARs for the
31:01weekend matches......
31:02>> have they been appointed? I don't know.
31:03>> Of course, do something. When you say
31:05appointed, wasn't there a team found to
31:07make appointments just yesterday?
31:09>> I honestly don't know, brother.
31:10>> The remaining people on the Central
31:12Referee Board will appoint the referees
31:13, right? They appointed them for the
31:15second and third leagues yesterday,
31:16brother.
31:16>> I missed that one. I don't know. They
31:18have appointed the referees for the
31:19second league. How will it work now,
31:21brother? They will appoint them for the
31:22Super League on the weekend. Sir.
31:24>> With so much turmoil going on, the
31:26psychology of the appointed referees is
31:28also troubled.
31:28>> No, that's just the turmoil. He says, "
31:29Ali, my dear, you continue." No.
31:31>> Turmoil. Why have we seen these things?
31:34We are experiencing these things.
31:34>> That's what I've been saying from the
31:35start. Since the beginning of the
31:37broadcast, Ali, I’ve been saying
31:38exactly what you are saying now. Man.
31:39>> I know, brother, but why then? Why are
31:42we experiencing this?
31:43>> We can't explain that part.
31:44>> It had to be experienced.
31:45>> Well.
31:46>> What did Mr. Hacı Osmanoğlu say?
31:47>> Dirty tricks. Dirty tricks. Oh.
31:49>> I'm reading it right away, brother,
31:50what you just said.
31:51>> Due to the damages they have caused. I
31:53swear, may God deal with them all as He
31:54knows best for the harm they have
31:56caused to this football family. I have
31:57nothing else to say. It's a shame.
31:59>> Mr. Hacı Osmanoğlu said, "Brother, I
32:00am addressing everyone clearly from
32:02here.""Let no one try to blame me and
32:04my fellow board members for the 100-
32:06plus-year-old Turkish Football
32:08Federation's and the 15, 20, maybe 30-
32:10year-old corruption and immorality
32:11during my 2-year presidency." I did not
32:14just enter the football community.
32:15İbrahim Hacı Osmanoğlu has always
32:16been a constant in this community.
32:18>> Yes. You didn't enter. You locked up
32:19and cornered the referees. That's how
32:20you became the federation president,
32:21right? There is no equivalent to it in
32:23the world. Our guy is best buddies with
32:25FIFA and UEFA presidents, this is who
32:26İbrahim Hacı Osmanoğlu is. Yeah.
32:29>> But the world is a bit like that there,
32:31brother, I mean, you're saying you're
32:32touching the World Cup. It’s in the
32:34rules. He’s sitting in Trump's lap,
32:36for example. I mean, our day has also
32:37come to that point a bit. He has always
32:39stood tall. He didn't stop there,
32:41either. He said that he personally put
32:42his hands, or rather his whole body, on
32:44the line to fix Turkish football.
32:46>> What did he do? What did he do? What
32:47even happened?
32:48>> I don't understand, brother. Man.
32:49>> What did you do? President İbrahim
32:52thinks that the struggle they are
32:54having among themselves is a very good
32:56one. Do you understand? He doesn't look
32:58at the picture seen from the outside.
32:59The referees are incompetent. And there
33:01is constant chaos. Look, the Central
33:03Referee Committee Chairman has made
33:04ridiculous correspondences. The
33:06Istanbul branch and some referees
33:08followed his lead. While he was waging
33:10a battle from there, he challenged some
33:12people. The audio recording came out,
33:13right? He tells the guy, "He is making
33:15decisions about whether to end your
33:17referees 'careers or not," and talks
33:19down to people like that. A 9-minute
33:21long...
33:22>> I mean. Do you understand? Are we
33:23supposed to deal with these things now?
33:25What is it to us, brother? Football is
33:27in no state to deal with these. Our
33:30football has already gone down the
33:31drain. You've conceded 8 goals in the
33:32last matches you played. You've scored
33:34one goal. What are you talking about?
33:35Your national team is in shambles. And
33:37what the teams in the league will do in
33:39Europe and the Champions League is a
33:40big question mark. Still, no one has
33:43any hope.
33:43>> But the national team isn't used to
33:45these levels, brother. Experience, we
33:48are gaining experience. We are gaining
33:49experience. We will be gaining
33:51experience for 100 years. We will gain
33:52experience every time a federation
33:53president arrives. We will gain
33:54experience every time a new coach comes
33:56to the national team. There is a young
33:57generation. We are taking them. We are
33:59placing them, it will happen. I mean,
34:01let's sprinkle one or two into the
34:02existing squad, into the core squad.
34:04There’s no "let's walk with him and
34:06keep adding things from behind." Do you
34:08understand? Always with the "let's tear
34:10it down and rebuild" mentality. We have
34:12groups of people who make tons of money
34:14, gain fame, and still don't like
34:16anyone. Our coaches, our technical
34:18staff, our media members, our president
34:20, our management. Man, what happened,
34:21man? Look, we were saying here, Hulusi
34:23Belgil, Hakan Safi, they go there. They
34:25hold meetings at the Federation. Look,
34:27later Hakan Safi was saying it when he
34:29became a presidential candidate. He was
34:30saying, "I brought the foreign referee.
34:31" It comes out in the light of these
34:33meetings, uh. Then look, at the end of
34:35the day, the bill ends up being footed
34:36by Fenerbahçe. Then they turn around
34:37and tell the president the wrong things
34:38. They deceive the president, Mr. Ali.
34:41I always said that the people around
34:43you, your friends, your buddies, many
34:44of the hangers-on around you—I don't
34:46mean as managers, don't get me wrong,
34:48but those who just try to be close—
34:50have always deceived Mr. Ali. Well,
34:52they did deceive him. He says it
34:54clearly himself. Yesterday, İbrahim
34:55Seten said it on the broadcast. He said
34:57, "They deceived Mr. Ali." He
34:58apologized to the heads of the Central
34:59Referee Committee. He said, "No, this
35:01has to go." Didn't he say that?
35:03>> Yes.
35:04>> Don't let a word of yours fall to the
35:05ground. Look, sitting in that seat is
35:07no easy job. That’s for sure.
35:09Especially if you are a member of the
35:11most important family in the Republic
35:12of Turkey, you know? When you sit there
35:14, it's not easy, brother. You can be
35:16deceived, they can deceive you. Because
35:18you can't really tell what is right and
35:20what is wrong. For 7 years, Mr. Ali
35:22couldn't figure this out. Who was
35:23telling him the truth and who was lying
35:25. Am I making myself clear? Was it Ali
35:27Tuna? What was that judge's name? Tuna.
35:29Right. He filed a lawsuit. He filed
35:31that lawsuit within a year. When he
35:34applied, everything, look, document
35:36forgery there, uh, tampering with
35:38documents, match manipulation, this and
35:40that. It was forwarded to Mr. Ali. Mr.
35:43Ali took it, went to the federation,
35:44and explained it at their door. You
35:46remember, don't you? That incident is
35:47this incident. It came to Mr. Ali after
35:49the man made his statement. I mean, he
35:51came after the man applied and became a
35:53complainant. Because they reached out
35:55to the man. They told the man, "Look,
35:56it'll be a favor, Mr. Ali is a very big
35:57man.""Bring it to him.""Let these
35:59documents, these good documents, come
36:00out and make an impact," they said. At
36:02the point we've reached today, he is
36:03the chief architect of this structure.
36:05They are tearing down this structure,
36:06etcetera. It started flying around in
36:08the air. It came to the point of "Mr.
36:09Ali started this." It's not right. A
36:12completely empty conversation. In these
36:14last 4 years of Fenerbahçe's
36:16championship, let's say, in the 99-
36:19point season, right? There's a thing.
36:23He even went and beat Galatasaray. You
36:24lost points at home there. There are
36:26matches you lost. Especially last year,
36:28the Karagümrük match, you took a blow
36:30from the inside.
36:31>> There are many.
36:32>> Look. The Rize match. Yeah.
36:34>> There are many such matches.
36:35>> Isn't that right, Ali?
36:35>> The previous year, the Istanbul match.
36:37>> One year before that, the Sivas match
36:38that Emre Belözoğlu would have been
36:40champion if he had won, there is the
36:41Sivas match.
36:42>> Yeah. They don't question these. Before
36:43the Sivas match, Emre Belözoğlu's
36:45thoughts were completely elsewhere. The
36:46guy wasn't on the field during the
36:47match, really. He was dealing with
36:49other issues. Everyone knows. He went
36:51out, and you lost the match. If you had
36:52won, Beşiktaş's championship would
36:53have been gone. Was that the year
36:54Beşiktaş became the champion?
36:55>> Yes. Yes. Correct. Like that, like that
36:58, I mean there is a structure. There is
37:00a balance of power. But this balance of
37:02power isn't with the referees, the
37:04Central Referee Committee, or the
37:05federation; this country has a dark
37:07side. I mean, there is a structure.
37:09That structure does some things, in
37:11betting and here and there, very
37:13seriously. Look, there's a president
37:15around Mersin in basketball. Things
37:18might be coming from there. A former
37:19agent who later became president. There
37:22are a lot of betting issues within
37:23basketball. Strange things. We talked
37:25about it last week too, you know.
37:26Exactly.
37:27>> Look, especially in basketball, in
37:28girls' teams and such, there are
37:30terrible things. Look, the state is
37:31going after it. Watch and see what huge
37:33problems will emerge there.
37:35>> You said Asia was interesting, brother.
37:36Asia. The Asia side.
37:38>> Yeah.
37:38>> This...
37:39>> money is going over there...
37:41>> I wonder if that talk is real? They
37:43always call them the Hong Kong betting
37:45barons for years.
37:45>> Well, it exists, it really exists. It's
37:47not that it doesn't. You can't find
37:48them. And sometimes, these things
37:50actually benefit certain people. My
37:53dear Ali, what do we always say? The
37:55reason we say "bring the right coach,
37:56build the right team" is this. I mean,
37:59the money Ali Bey spent in 7 years in a
38:00single year, under normal conditions
38:02for a club of Fenerbahçe's caliber—
38:03they also say "there was no limit" and
38:05so on. Well, if you report it high, you
38:07won't get a limit. If you show your
38:08debt as high—you have assets, you
38:10have property—but you showed the debt
38:11as high. You shot yourself in the foot.
38:12I mean, at the end of the day, a team
38:14could have been built and many other
38:16things could have happened. When Ali
38:19Bey first arrived, if the great Ali
38:21Koç had gone to a bank for a 20-year
38:23or 10-year loan for that $ 330 million
38:25debt, if he had brought it from world
38:27banks, from somewhere in Europe and
38:28paid it off, he could have paid $ 20
38:30million a year—the cost of one player
38:32—and cleared the debt to make a clean
38:34start. There are people who said this
38:36and even sent emails about it. I'm
38:38saying it because I know that. You know
38:39what I mean? It has been said before.
38:41So, in short, we are interpreting some
38:43things wrong. We are chasing after some
38:45things too fast. The place went crazy,
38:47didn't it? As if a cure for cancer was
38:49found, as if we sent a shuttle to Mars.
38:52Aha, we found it. Find the chief
38:53architect of the structure, which match
38:55did they influence? Are you saying that
38:58this player/technical/referee group
39:01they formed...
39:03>> because they are supported by the head
39:05of the Central Referee Committee or the
39:07federation president, they understand
39:09how to finish this match from a wink of
39:11theirs.
39:13>> They might have punished some
39:14individuals or institutions. They might
39:16have rewarded some. They might not have
39:18done it in a way that draws much
39:19attention. This suspicion has formed in
39:21me.
39:21>> By the way, the decision to dissolve
39:23the Referees 'Association had come out.
39:24>> 100%correct. 100%correct. That is the
39:26biggest rumor, and it's from there. It
39:28always comes from there. Because there
39:30is cronyism. I've been saying it for
39:32years, look, the center, look, ha, 2-3
39:34years ago when I first exposed that
39:36issue. The referee lawyers also took
39:40some referees along with them. Do you
39:44remember? They filed lawsuits. They had
39:45filed a lawsuit against our Serdar too
39:47back then. They had abandoned their
39:48jobs and work to focus on insults and
39:50profanity directed at them on social
39:52media. From there, they pursued
39:53business through lawyer-referees,
39:55lawyer-referees. They filed lawsuits
39:57against people. They made millions and
39:58millions in money. Do you know that?
40:00I've explained it dozens of times. Then
40:01a regulation even came into effect. Uh,
40:03that practice was put an end to.
40:04>> Yeah, do you understand? We, as
40:05journalists, were the ones to voice
40:07these issues. We were saying these
40:08things while not a single soul would
40:09speak up. Was I able to explain it?
40:11>> Yes.
40:11>> I mean, look at Mete Kalkavan now, with
40:13his car, his this and that. There was
40:15the late İhsan Kalkavan in our Samsun,
40:17a sweet man like a diamond, God rest
40:19his soul; he’s his son, he has money
40:21and assets. He might be unskilled, but
40:23you can’t say this man stole money,
40:25took this, brought that down—you
40:26can’t say that about these guys,
40:27about most of them. There are some
40:29people, some referees, who are doing
40:31very good work in very good places. Yes
40:33, the man is passionate about football
40:35and wants to be a referee, but we are
40:37already fed up with this refereeing
40:39system passed down from father to son,
40:40from grandfather to grandson. They are
40:43still itching for trouble. That is also
40:45Ibrahim Hacıosmanoğlu’s rebellion.
40:47"I am fighting against them because
40:49they are causing trouble," he says. His
40:51actions might look to you from the
40:53outside just as you perceive them.
40:55Meaning, you might think that the
40:57referees he brings close to him could
40:59manipulate matches. Because the closer
41:02someone is to the federation or the
41:04center, you might say, "Well then, they
41:06must be influencing the results of some
41:08matches by whispering into ears behind
41:10the scenes." I mean, you saw the guy
41:13yourself, you see the position in front
41:15of the referee on camera recordings,
41:16right? When the man goes to the monitor
41:18, he sees himself, right? He doesn't
41:20call it there because it has become a
41:21story of taking the easy way out. Well,
41:23it has been corrected a little bit. God
41:26is Great, the call to prayer is being
41:27recited. Do you understand what I mean?
41:29Anyway, we couldn’t say much more,
41:30really. We jumped from one thing to
41:32another. You're done, Çağtay.
41:35>> You provoked me.
41:36>> Look, for which team were the referees
41:38whose paths were cleared used, brother?
41:39I am waiting for the answer to this
41:40question. Can anyone give me this
41:42answer?
41:43>> What, brother? Can a single soul today
41:45tell us which match was manipulated by
41:47the referees whose paths were cleared,
41:49the referees we consider favorites, or
41:50those we think are close to the Central
41:52Referee Committee and the federation?
41:54>> Nothing related to that has emerged.
41:56>> Yeah, a referee’s wife even came out
41:58during the break saying her husband was
42:00being moved. Why are they coming out?
42:02Wow! I witnessed phone calls and things
42:04like that. There is also speaking with
42:06the speakerphone on. There is
42:07undermining each other through intrigue
42:09. There are voice recordings and such.
42:11Even when we are talking, some people
42:13think we are recording their voices or
42:15something. In my 42-year professional
42:17life, I have never recorded anyone's
42:19voice. I have never kept anyone’s
42:21WhatsApp messages either. Because
42:23journalistic reflex—one day you get
42:25angry. Uh, you become a victim of your
42:28ambition and you bring it out. That
42:29would be a great disgrace. I mean, we
42:31had plenty of things too, but you just
42:32delete and discard them. This is
42:34morality. Do you understand?
42:35>> Professionally.
42:36>> The matter remained only as forgery of
42:38documents. What is forgery of documents
42:39? Which document? A referee’s
42:42>> exam paper.
42:43>> On the exam paper,
42:43>> exam paper grading,
42:45>> what he wrote,
42:45>> making a passing paper invalid,
42:47>> perhaps he made the guy next to him
42:48write it. He did it to set a trap.
42:50>> Can we know this? We cannot know.
42:51>> There are many scenarios
42:52>> of course.
42:53>> There are many scenarios. That's why
42:54it’s Serdar Tatlı, Ahmet Şahin,
42:56Yunus Yıldırım. Look, he apparently
42:58wants Ibanoğlu and Serdar Tatlı.
43:00Ahmet Şahin and Yunus Yıldırım.
43:01Ahmet Şahin has also lost quite a bit
43:02of weight. He got very scared in two
43:04days, let me tell you that. He got out
43:06now, thank God, there's no bad
43:08situation, but anyway, the men have no
43:09guilt or sin, let's not get into that,
43:11we don't know what happened. They are
43:13playing with Ibanoğlu and Serdar
43:15Tatlı, but the football federation
43:17officials are saying the same thing to
43:18me today. I mean, who is flawless,
43:20which one is flawless? We will bring
43:22Serdar Tatlı, they will start from
43:24March 8th until the end, and so on. You
43:26will bring the other, Ibanoğlu. They
43:27will start from there, and it won't
43:29suit someone else's interests. They are
43:30right too, I mean. It is hard to sit in
43:32that chair. Just like Ali Koç was
43:33deceived and misled while sitting in
43:35that chair. It's a pity. Look, someone
43:37said something about the upcoming
43:38period recently. I really liked it. I
43:39don't remember who said it. Let Ali Bey
43:41come after this. He told me. Let him
43:44come after this. Let him be the
43:45president of Fenerbahçe one day. He
43:47observed the club, the surroundings,
43:49and who is who from the outside. He
43:51would do a much better job as president
43:53, you know? I don't remember who said
43:55it, but he really would be a better
43:57president, and in any case, he is
43:58probably thinking about the 2030s. His
44:01children are in school in America. He
44:03goes there and comes back. He relaxed a
44:04bit, and stayed on the outside for a
44:06while. Now they are applauding him a
44:07bit on social media. He must like that
44:09too. They love these things afterwards.
44:11Look, Ali Koç exposed the structure.
44:13Your administrators went back and forth
44:15to the federation, they deceived and
44:16misled you. They deceived you too.
44:18Ibrahim Setan is telling it, after all.
44:19We also knew when they were going back
44:21and forth, they thought something was
44:23being done by visiting the federation.
44:25Then it turned out nothing happened,
44:27did the team become champion? Do you
44:28understand? What is he saying? Look,
44:31Kamil Abitoğlu will do the referee
44:33assignments this month, I mean this
44:35week.
44:37>> He also had his statement taken, and
44:38what not, it's a disaster now.
44:40>> Again, one of the old ones, one of the
44:41old acquaintances.
44:42>> So, does he have a role right now, out
44:44of curiosity? I don't know.
44:45>> There you go. I don't know. Is he one
44:47of the four or five people? Is it like
44:49that?
44:49>> I don't know, I honestly don't know.
44:50Let's not mislead anyone, and let's not
44:53look like we are uninformed, you know?
44:55Being deceived or whatever, it's all a
44:57story, Montella. Uh, President Aziz
44:59isn't making a sound, and there's a
45:01reason for it. What should he say? The
45:03man sees the situation. The man already
45:05said it. The man already said it. Just
45:07recently he said there are deeper
45:08layers to this. Leave that aside. He
45:09also stood up and said what? He said
45:11let's take a one-year break from the
45:12league. People couldn't understand the
45:14realities lying beneath that. I won't
45:16say anything until this structure is
45:18completely exposed. I don't see a "
45:21monstrous" structure here. I see
45:23incompetence, ineptitude, and cronyism.
45:25This was always there. We need to get
45:27rid of this. We must avoid cronyism,
45:29sycophancy, and assigning tasks to
45:31those who are undeserving or
45:33unqualified. Unfortunately, the
45:35football family is currently being run
45:37by very incompetent referees. It won't
45:39get better like this. It's tough.
45:41>> Let’s make peace, you and me.
45:42>> Let’s make peace. Brother, why were
45:43we even upset with each other?
45:44>> I would never be upset with you. Am I
45:45crazy to hold a grudge against you?
45:46>> How wonderful.
45:47>> Could anyone ever be upset with you?
45:48You are the sweetest man in the world.
45:50>> Much appreciated, brother. Thank you.
45:51>> You are also very fair and equitable.
45:54Bless you. I really love that side of
45:55you. Ali is the same way. Çağatay,
45:57but regarding those thoughts, we have
45:59truly walked these paths and through
46:01this mud so many times. The drama, the
46:03games that are being played...
46:05>> Maybe we need to go through some of it
46:06too, brother, you know.
46:07>> But my dear boy, you told me something
46:08about the journalism profession, do you
46:10remember? If I stay close to that club,
46:12>> I can only stay afloat and do this job,
46:14that’s what some say.
46:16>> Look, there were those who thought of
46:17the journalism profession that way.
46:19From there, you can understand where
46:20things are heading.
46:21>> But that’s not really journalism, is
46:22it, brother?
46:23>> It isn't, but that's what they think.
46:25>> Yeah. That’s true, that’s true. And
46:26by the way, this is even taught in
46:28school. I mean...
46:29>> Sure, of course. Cüneyt Kaşeler said
46:31something very nice recently. The
46:32moment you close the door on social
46:34media, you face the real world. That
46:36place is not the real world, my friends
46:37. Don't believe the schemes going on
46:39there. Always assume that someone is
46:41pulling strings or is someone’s
46:43puppet. Think about how certain topics
46:45are brought to the agenda just because
46:47someone wants to manipulate them. Those
46:49places aren't reality. Life doesn't
46:51flow like that.
46:52>> But I don't really agree with that
46:54perspective. I think we need to accept
46:57this reality now. I mean, by seeing
46:59what social media is and its effects,
47:01we have to accept that reality; Ertan
47:03is explaining it to you right here on
47:04social media. He’s not telling you
47:07about how he finds high-follower
47:08accounts and what kind of dirty
47:09business they conduct. Then how do you
47:12believe it?
47:12>> No, look, I’m not saying it should be
47:14believed. Ha, I’m not saying "believe
47:15it." I think the reason why social
47:17media was established, its purpose, and
47:19its effects should be understood. I
47:21mean, you shouldn't just cut it off by
47:23saying, "that place is all lies." You
47:24need to see how it's used and why it's
47:27used. Brother, they influenced the
47:29elections in America. I mean, Russia's
47:31influence is clear, or the rise of
47:33right-wing politics in the world,
47:34people not liking each other, making
47:36people hate one another and polarizing
47:38them—social media is somewhat here
47:40for that.
47:41>> Yeah. You have to see that too. And
47:43also, let's go back to, well, let's go
47:45back to Fenerbahçe. Regarding
47:47Fenerbahçe, İsmail Hoca's morale has
47:49been good lately. He started again.
47:51I’m the one who played him.
47:53>> How did you get back to that, brother?
47:54>> Well, anyway, I’m back. Oh, I had a
47:56note, too. You know, when talking to
47:57friends and buddies who are Fenerbahçe
47:59fans, people are truly very right.
48:01Fenerbahçe should be self-reliant. It
48:02used to be like this. Fenerbahçe
48:05shouldn't have to win anything based on
48:09the points others lose. It should
48:12remain self-reliant. Fenerbahçe...
48:14people should follow Fenerbahçe. Do
48:16you understand? It shouldn't be "let
48:18Galatasaray lose, let Beşiktaş lose,
48:19so Fenerbahçe can climb up." That's
48:21not it. Fenerbahçe needs to make that
48:23power felt. I truly agreed when I was
48:25talking about this with a friend of
48:26mine the other day. Fenerbahce used to
48:28be like this, you know. It wouldn't
48:29look at what anyone else was doing or
48:31saying. It would build its team, play,
48:33win, and move on. People would just
48:34watch. I mean, it wasn't about whether
48:36Fenerbahce, Besiktas, or Galatasaray
48:38would lose points before the winter
48:39break. What do we always say about the
48:41right squad and the right players? Aziz
48:43Bey said the same thing, reaching the
48:45winter break with minimal point losses,
48:47you know? Fixing the team with two or
48:49three transfers there, which is also an
48:51admission of something. It implies that
48:53some players were wrong transfers or
48:55that there were missing transfers.
48:56Right?
48:57>> We said this. So, for this reason,
48:59Fenerbahce needs to be self-reliant. It
49:02needs to give up its dependence on the
49:04results others will get. Honestly,
49:06it’s as clear as day, they should
49:08stop these internal fights a little.
49:10Because this process is currently
49:12working in Fenerbahce's favor. Nothing
49:15really came out of it. Nothing came out
49:17of this referee story. Nothing will
49:19come out of it again. Maybe Ibrahim
49:21Haciosmanoglu will say, "I won't resign
49:23" on Friday. Maybe he won't be able to
49:25hold out. Maybe a phone call or
49:27something will come, I don't know, but
49:29that's still their thinking. As of
49:30today, we are here. We don't know what
49:32will happen on Friday.
49:33>> Thank you for your insight.
49:34>> All the best. Thank you. Sorry about
49:36that.
49:36>> Not at all.
49:37>> I've tired everyone out. We might not
49:38have said anything useful to those
49:39listening. I don't know how long it was
49:41or anything. Take care.

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