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BTKA #46: Steven Callahan – 76 Days Lost at Sea on a Life Raft (audio only) — Transcript

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0:00you're listening to the born to kick-ass
0:02podcast with Matt Massey and can be
0:05found at born to kick-ass comm slash
0:07episode 46
0:08[Music]
0:14welcome to the born to kick-ass podcast
0:17where you're introduced to the most
0:19fascinating people on the planet learn
0:22the ingredients of greatness that you
0:24can apply to your life and now your host
0:26Matthew Tomasi Steven Keller hands boat
0:42the Napoleon solo capsized in the
0:45Atlantic Ocean several hundred
0:47kilometres of the west coast of Africa
0:50Steve spent the next two and a half
0:52months in an inflatable rubber life raft
0:54at the mercy of the winds and currents
0:57and shares what it was like facing
1:00starvation extreme hunger exposure and
1:03the overwhelming desire to fight for
1:06survival Steve's book adrift 76 days
1:10lost at sea went on to become a New York
1:13Times best seller Steve also served as
1:16the primary consultant on angley's
1:18oscar-winning shipwreck movie Life of Pi
1:22enjoy the interview
1:24[Music]
1:39Steven Callahan welcome to the born to
1:42kick-ass podcast thanks for having me
1:45now you've been a lifelong sailor is
1:49that is that right that's right I've
1:51been saying and I'm in my 60s now I've
1:54been sailing over 50 years anyway how
1:58did you sort of get into it you know
2:00from the beginning did you live like on
2:02the water or near the water at all well
2:05I mean my my family dug out of what was
2:12an old lake bed that was spring fed and
2:14I grew up with a pond sort of in the
2:16backyard I spent a lot of time messing
2:18around with that but really I started
2:19sailing
2:20thanks to my boy scout master who had a
2:26small boat and he was a lifelong sailor
2:28and he would take kids out sailing with
2:31them if they were interested and I was
2:33and I basically just fell in love with
2:34it from the top was like 11 or so and
2:38became very passionate about it where
2:40well you know a lot of other kids my age
2:44you know were interested in cars or
2:46something like that I was I was like
2:48kind of consumed by boats in the ocean
2:51and all of that so that abilities work
2:53on the Internet yeah and you're based in
2:56Maine on the east coast of America is
2:59that where you grew up well I grew up in
3:02Massachusetts um it's just south of here
3:06you know outside of sort of the burbs of
3:08Boston and I saw long the coast there
3:11and I got to know the Maine coast
3:12basically through sailing this this guy
3:14with whom I I would end up sailing for
3:18years and you know into my college years
3:20really
3:21we used to sail up here at first we had
3:24a little camp cruiser and brought it up
3:26here and kind of sailed around the
3:27islands it's very beautiful coast here
3:29lots of more than 3,000 Islands very
3:34crinkly coastline with lots of bays and
3:36inlets and whatnot it's a beautiful
3:39place to be so when I got out of school
3:42I was wandering around helping people
3:45build boats
3:47and when we decided to look for a place
3:52to land ashore a bit
3:56we loved the coast of Maine so we ended
3:59up here you know as you're starting to
4:01get into sailing and you're learning the
4:03ropes is that similar is it like an
4:06apprenticeship you know like look I
4:09don't really know much about sailing but
4:11you know with trades like a plumber or
4:13an electrician someone new that's coming
4:16on board learns the trade and learns the
4:19ropes from the master I guess is that
4:23similar to sailing where youyou actually
4:26learn the ropes and you seem like an
4:28apprentice to the the skipper I guess
4:31sometimes I I guess the roads into
4:35things are quite varied especially
4:37sailing you know some some people grow
4:40up you know they're kind of you know
4:42their parents belong to a Yacht Club
4:43they come from generations of sailors
4:45and you know they're introduced to it
4:47that way in my case I just happen to
4:50know this guy who was a sailor and he
4:53likes going off on the ocean and because
4:57nobody really and my family sailed at
4:59all my parents came from coal mining
5:01country in Virginia you know and my
5:03father loved the ocean but they weren't
5:06really sailors or anything so for me it
5:08was a bit of happenstance but I was
5:10dedicated to it and I think have you
5:13dedicated to anything you kind of find a
5:16way in and it often though if you're
5:21getting on boats other people's boats
5:23you know you you are in a crewing
5:25position and you kind of learn the ropes
5:27from people who've done it before so in
5:29that way yeah it's very much an
5:31apprenticeship I taught me to say oh it
5:34was really a good mentor and that he
5:37would let me do everything I possibly
5:39could do and wanted to do you know from
5:42planning trips to navigating and I was
5:44also doing I spent a lot of time kind of
5:46growing up in the in the woods where I
5:47grew up it was a lot of woods and
5:51camping in the in the mountains doing
5:54some mountain climbing and that sort of
5:56thing I I felt very comfortable in those
5:58kind of wilderness environments and
5:59that's what really
6:00attracted me was to to go away sort of
6:06the way from humankind into this amazing
6:09wilderness called the ocean yeah do you
6:11remember your first sailing trip like
6:13big sailing trip either out into the
6:16ocean or down or up the coast do you
6:20sort of remember your first one well
6:23what we actually from you know he had a
6:26like like the first boat I really saw
6:28was just like a 15-foot daysailer and we
6:30would go out and we would just sail
6:32until we lost sight of everything so
6:35that was that was sort of early on when
6:37I was on a no 11 or something like that
6:3911 or 12 and but and then we would take
6:43steps from there you know you start
6:45doing overnights and then you do a
6:46200-mile trip and so on but the I think
6:50one of the fundamental ly
6:55I don't know changing trips for me was
6:58the for our first offshore trip which
7:00was after I got out of college I built a
7:0328-foot trimaran and was living on it
7:07and we entered a race from Newport to
7:10Bermuda and so we did that three of us
7:13and then sailed the boat back and when
7:18we got back I just felt like I had just
7:21been in this totally different space and
7:23I wouldn't mind just turning right
7:25around and going right back out there
7:27again
7:27so that really I don't know it was it
7:31was a sort of an earmark trip yeah yeah
7:34when you mentioned Newport that's sort
7:36of triggered a memory for me in I think
7:41it was 83 1983 or 82 when Australia won
7:45the America's Cup right and I think it
7:47was from Newport Rhode Island around
7:49there somewhere or berm you know I'm not
7:51sure I think it was yeah it was would
7:54have been in Newport News where it was
7:55the capital of the America's Cup for I
7:59don't know generations really until
8:01until it was won by but fight by you
8:04folks down under now how many knots do
8:07you know do you know do you know heaps
8:08of knots you know like the the sailing
8:10knots and do you need to know heaps
8:14well one thing that attracted me sailing
8:16was that it's really kind of an inland
8:18endeavor and I to be a great sailor
8:23especially like an offshore short-handed
8:25sailor you really need to know at least
8:28a little bit about an awful lot of
8:30things and it helps know as much as
8:31possible about I mean everything from
8:33oceanography and I have to have some
8:36sort of basic understanding of
8:38mechanical forces and physics and
8:40mathematics and you know especially back
8:43in that era when I was first sailing
8:45offshore you know we had no long-range
8:48communications we didn't know where we
8:50were all the time we navigated by
8:52sextant and guessing how sometimes
8:54guessing how fast the water was going by
8:56the boat and plotting things out and
9:00those sorts of things so it was it was a
9:02really different world you were in some
9:04ways tuned into I don't know the natural
9:08world more then than we often do today
9:12with all the instrumentation and whatnot
9:14it was just a different time and and I
9:17kind of I love that although I also love
9:19the modern gadget REE so I don't know I
9:23can't buy that kind of lost the plot
9:25what was the original question done I
9:27was just sort of just mentioning about
9:29the America's Cup and and knots
9:32oh yeah yeah I know quite a few not so I
9:37can do a lot with rope and it came in
9:41very handy later in later on when I
9:45would be shipwrecked because you know
9:47you kind of live in like a caveman and I
9:49was pretty good with caveman kind of
9:52technologies with a knife and some rope
9:54and whatnot you can go up and you know
9:56live out of the backpack for a long
9:58period of time or you know it's see
10:02often things are going wrong and
10:04breaking and you're kind of learning how
10:08to live in an isolated environment with
10:10with limited resources so you have a lot
10:13of sort of those kind of practical
10:14skills hopefully yeah now you mentioned
10:17you like or you've built a number of
10:18boats tell us about Napoleon solo and
10:22did you build that
10:24yeah I did I designed and built the boat
10:28I was at the time I've been building
10:30boats and then I kind of transitioned
10:32into design was working in a design
10:34school and design office here in Maine
10:37which gives back to your apprenticeship
10:39question actually that that especially
10:42at the time was very much an
10:43apprenticeship type of type of business
10:46and I wanted to cross the ocean from the
10:51time I was you know like 12 or something
10:53rather in a in a small boat either by
10:55myself it was somebody else and so this
10:58mini transact race came up and I decided
11:00I would build a boat that would fit into
11:02that which means it basically was you
11:04know 21 feet long and on that I would
11:10sort of fulfill all these childhood
11:12dreams of crossing the ocean so I built
11:17it with the help of a friend of mine
11:19Chris who would end up meeting me in
11:22Bermuda and sailing the rest the way
11:24across the Atlantic in the polling zone
11:26with me and was that the first Atlantic
11:29crossing that you'd done yeah that was
11:32my first crossing yeah yeah that would
11:35been an adventure doing that it was a
11:38great adventure you know I mean it's not
11:39that the ocean hadn't been crossed by
11:41small boats before but it certainly
11:44wasn't very common and I was very
11:46interested in what but one thing I love
11:48about boats is there a kind of unique
11:51combination the machine and habitat and
11:56vehicle and art all in one thing and
12:00just organization the space is the
12:04efficiency of a boat is something I
12:06always loved and so this was an attempt
12:09at designing small boat you can actually
12:11live about live on for longer pure live
12:14relatively long periods of time I was
12:16quite comfortable in the boat I could
12:17have lived on that boat sort of
12:19permanently even though it was only 21
12:20feet long now so you saw sailed solo
12:24across the Atlantic and wait where did
12:26you end up was it in the UK yeah like I
12:30say I said I sailed solo to Bermuda to
12:33qualify for this mini Transat race and
12:36that's in trouble on the way I lost the
12:37mast had two rear eight I had to
12:39jury-rig
12:40bring the boat back and rerigged the
12:41boat and sail it back to Bermuda again
12:43and then Chris met me there and we
12:45sealed it the rest of the way across
12:46stopping in the Azores and then finally
12:49Penzance England from where the mini
12:52Transat would start say what you were
12:55the actual transatlantic race was that
12:58starting in Penzance was it yeah so we
13:01sailed to the start you sound across the
13:04Atlantic to the start and then you're
13:07going to go back the same way no you go
13:11back you go back a different way the the
13:13mini Trans had at the time ran from
13:15Penzance south to the Canary Islands
13:19just off the coca and then from the
13:22Canaries you kind of drop down get into
13:25the trade winds and blow across to the
13:29to the Caribbean yeah Antigua so how
13:33long were you there in England like
13:35you've done your foot that's that
13:37crossing how long were you in England
13:38and what sort of maintenance was
13:40required on the boat after the first
13:43sort of crossing is there much sort of
13:45stuff that you need to do to maintain it
13:47and sort of fix up little bits and
13:49pieces here and there well I try to keep
13:53up with things on the boat any little
13:55things that needed to be done we're
13:57pretty conscious about that like I said
13:59I lost the mast on the way to Bermuda
14:01the first time so we had one job as I I
14:04put these sort of reinforcing struts on
14:07the masts in England which just sort of
14:10made the bottom of the bulletproof but
14:13otherwise I had some things to sort out
14:15some things never work properly it was
14:17an early era for solar panels and they
14:20never work properly and whatnot but and
14:23generally the boat was in pretty good
14:25kit when I got there because if you're
14:28sailing the boat you're seeing things
14:30that are going wrong and whatnot the
14:31boat was pretty well shaken down as we
14:33say by the time by the time I got to
14:34England but we had a bit of work I think
14:36we were there for a couple of weeks but
14:38it was stressful yeah now tell us about
14:42when you departed from England steps
14:45through that as you're coming back here
14:50from England okay well there is this
14:53whole
14:53collection of little boats going in this
14:56race I can't remember the exact number
14:58but it's in the late started in the late
15:02fall in the North Atlantic is not benign
15:07and it's best at times and in the fall
15:10it can get pretty gnarly so there were
15:14bad forecasts basically and we left
15:17England and sort of bounced our way down
15:20to the Bay of Biscay which is quite
15:23notorious on it in its own right and by
15:25that time they actually lost I can't
15:28remember how many boats several boats
15:30one that had turned over and didn't come
15:32up right and an Italian I passed
15:34actually lost his boat I didn't realize
15:39he was in trouble I was trying to raise
15:40him on the radio one not and ended up
15:42sailing by him and I heard later even
15:45picked up but the boat had been lost and
15:47I ended up having some damage in the Bay
15:49of Biscay bouncing over these big waves
15:53and look like I had hit something so I
15:57retired from the race in La Coruna and
15:59spent quite a lot of time there probably
16:02a month because it was like every day
16:04was a gale everyday you have to get
16:07around the Cape Finisterre which is
16:09pretty nasty so I ended up hanging out
16:12there and then ending up cruising the
16:14boat down along the coast of Spain and
16:17Portugal out to madeira down with the
16:19Canaries which was fantastic it was like
16:22stepping back a hundred years and a lot
16:24of these places we were being this
16:26little boat into places that you know
16:28they hadn't seen yacht in years like
16:31that yeah it was very cool and so I
16:36basically followed you know the race I
16:38was going home at this point I was broke
16:40I didn't have any anything except what
16:43was on the boat and so got to the
16:47Canaries and was getting ready to make
16:49my crossing the same way basically and I
16:53figured it once I got to the Caribbean I
16:54get work with a friend of mine and a
16:56boatyard there and see what the next
16:59chapter would bring so just for
17:01listeners the Canaries is just off the
17:03coast of America
17:05Africa yeah it's they kind of stretch
17:08out from very close to the to the to the
17:10to the north west coast there and they
17:13go and stretch out quite far and into
17:16the ocean and I you know was leaving
17:18from the more western parts of the
17:21islands yes so when you departed from
17:23the Canaries tell us about the you know
17:27when you're departed and the main day
17:31that sort of changed your life
17:32yeah well so it was January the end of
17:36January was getting a little cool we're
17:40still in the sort of northern hemisphere
17:42there and I wanted to finally get going
17:46I'd spent quite a while in the Canaries
17:48made friends there really really enjoyed
17:51time there and set off it actually had a
17:56beautiful week sailing just down when
17:58sailing and you know I was doing
18:00exercises and drawing and reading and it
18:04was it was it was unusual in that it was
18:08so pleasant because a lot of times about
18:12people think you should on a boat it's
18:13Pleasant all the time a lot of times
18:14it's not very pleasant you maybe you
18:16might appreciate it but it's it's not
18:19always easy and but a storm was kind of
18:25brewing up about a weekend to it it
18:27didn't look like it was anything
18:28horrendous and the boat and I'd been
18:31through several gales before and whatnot
18:33it was pretty well shaken down so we
18:34thought I thought I thought it was you
18:36know gonna be fine and but I kept
18:40looking around and it got dark and the
18:43waves were probably about mmm my guess
18:46is sort of a significant wave height was
18:48probably about three meters more us and
18:53we're scooting down over these waves and
18:55I kept getting up and looking making
18:56sure everything was okay and finally I
18:58laid down and I took off all my clothes
19:01which was a little bit of a mistake
19:02and sort of local middle of the night
19:07there was a big bash on the side of the
19:10boat and I knew immediately that the
19:12boat was doomed because water is just
19:14like pouring and
19:16like you know fire hoses in and it's so
19:21I left up in you know basically got my
19:24gear together as best I could but the
19:30vote looked like it was going straight
19:32down so I had a big bag full of
19:35equipment and stuff I left that behind I
19:37just got up in the deck got that life
19:39raft and inflated and floated off the
19:41side of the boat and because I thought
19:44the boat was just going down like a rock
19:46but once I got in the raft I was still
19:50tied to the boat and it was clear that
19:54the boat was stabilized I had some
19:56watertight compartments in it and the
19:58way it was going down and also developed
20:01an air pocket and so it kind of
20:02stabilized with all these waves washing
20:04over it but it wasn't it seemed like it
20:08was kind of stable there so I got back
20:12on the boat dug down inside made a bunch
20:14of as many trips as I could physically
20:17to get my gear bag and some other odds
20:20and ends and get in the life raft and
20:23but the raft was really light and kind
20:26of bobbling around on the on the water
20:29in breaking waves would hit it and it's
20:31tied to this boat full of water which is
20:33like being tied to the bottom of the
20:35ocean almost it's in so it'd be like in
20:38being in an auto accident every once in
20:40a while and finally something just
20:44before daybreak
20:47a big wave hit the raft but this time
20:49that just seemed it kind of scooted off
20:51and seemed a lot more peaceful and I
20:53looked out and was floating away from
20:55the boat so basically at that point I
20:58was pretty much in the middle of the
21:00Atlantic Ocean and I was facing drifting
21:05downwind about 1800 nautical miles about
21:082,000 statute miles to drift to the
21:11Caribbean which we take two and a half
21:14months do you know what you hit do you
21:17never while there was a debris or
21:19something go there's a lot of debris
21:22floating around out there right now
21:23there's a single hand around the world
21:26race going on and
21:28well I think out of 30 votes I think
21:31five or six have already hit something
21:34in the water hard enough to do damage
21:36we call them UFOs or on the deck
21:39unidentified floating objects I think in
21:42my case it would probably it seemed like
21:44a blow came from the side my presumption
21:45was always that it could have been a
21:47whale or some other large sea mo big
21:50dark or something you know I mean
21:52sometimes they get a couple of tons and
21:54you know they're swimming along minding
21:56their own business and you're kind of
21:58swimming along minding your own business
22:00wrong place at the wrong time so was it
22:03literally just like a massive bang and
22:05then that just woke you up immediately
22:07and then at the same time you just saw
22:09all this water pouring into your boat
22:11yeah that's it exactly
22:13but you're just acting on instinct
22:15straight away just to yeah pretty much
22:19like you know I wrote this book called
22:21adrift about about it and there I kind
22:23of go into detail about you know you
22:25kind of to me at least I had all these
22:30voices in my head going on at the same
22:32time you know there's part of me that's
22:33just really freaked out and screaming
22:36you're gonna die and there's part of me
22:38going about the business that I needed
22:40to go about you know get anything to
22:42gear together and focusing folk trying
22:44to focus as much as possible on that or
22:46not on these other voices part of me was
22:48even amused you know the camera come on
22:50somehow and the back of the boat was
22:51taking this really dramatic footage
22:53which I thought was sort of ironic and
22:56so you know you're kind of thinking
22:59about a lot of things you know your
23:01hearts going a million miles an hour and
23:03you certainly scared through it yeah I
23:07dealt with enough stuff in my life I
23:09think and sailing is pretty good
23:10training to focus you on dealing with
23:14what needs to be dealt with no matter
23:16what your emotions are doing so I was
23:20lucky in that regard and it allowed me
23:22to get out of the boat but then this you
23:24know the first kind of stage of survival
23:28voyage after that impact and escaping
23:33that immediate threat is one of kind of
23:36disorientation in in longer term anxiety
23:41and fee
23:42and all that you know because you don't
23:44know how to make a life in this new
23:46environment at all you know you're in I
23:48was in this like little little rubber
23:50tent floating rubber tent and you know I
23:54had some tools and stuff and I had some
23:56knowledge but that's there's a big
23:59difference between having that and
24:01adapting to as I as I called it living
24:04like an aquatic caveman yeah
24:06now you mentioned he had to dive back
24:08under a number of times to get get
24:10whatever he could get what did you
24:13manage to get your hands on as you were
24:15diving back under into the boat to
24:17retrieve stuff what did you was there
24:19anything specific you were trying to get
24:21or or what did you end up grabbing on to
24:24well the priority was to get my ditch
24:27kit which is it was a bag full of all
24:30kinds of little goodies I had a lot of
24:33flares flare gun
24:34I had knives I had bits of rope and
24:38twine fishing stuff I had fortunately
24:43had bought a very small spear gun that
24:49just fit into this bag in the Canary
24:51Islands before I left I had solar stills
24:56that at least theoretically should
24:58produce fresh water out of saltwater and
25:02stuff like that the raft had a little
25:03bit of equipment in it it also had some
25:05of this stuff also had an emergency
25:08transmitter and things like that and
25:12then after I got that out then I don't
25:15know I got a I and it was basically
25:16anything I could grab hold of which
25:19included a cushion sleeping bag and some
25:24other stuff like that so the actual
25:25ditch kit was at like the size of like a
25:27gym bag type thing yeah pretty much
25:30you know what did the life raft what
25:32does that look like how big was it and
25:35you said it was like a floating tent it
25:37was a sort of rubber rubberized or yeah
25:40it's it's a reinforced rubber material
25:43ease than that and it's like a couple of
25:49big inner tubes one stack on top of the
25:51other with the
25:52sixteenth inch rubber floor running
25:56across the bottom and a little tent
25:59stretched across the top essentially so
26:02it's it's like a little cave loading
26:05cake the boat was that at night when it
26:09sunk yes and then what happened like
26:11tell us the next day like you know as
26:13the Sun starts to come up and what did
26:17you cut the the tie from the raft to the
26:20the boat no something in the linkage
26:24there broke I don't know what but it
26:28wasn't my choice to drift off I'd kind
26:29of hoped today with a boat till morning
26:31to get you know be able to get back
26:33aboard get more water at least and stuff
26:36like that but once I was broken away
26:38from it it's you know everything's a
26:40kind of a two-edged sword or you know
26:43it's got a yin-yang balance to it and so
26:47in some ways it was good that I broke
26:49broke away from the boat because there's
26:51a good chance that it I stayed with it
26:54the raft could have come apart in those
26:56all those breaking seas but on the other
27:00hand I didn't have all the stuff that I
27:02would like to have had and I was in the
27:04middle of the Atlantic and was teeny
27:06little life raft but it was Bray it was
27:10dismal for several days if blew really
27:14hard I almost tipped upside down several
27:16times I was soaking wet it was really
27:19cold at night it was staying warm enough
27:22at night was a real problem um all those
27:25things it was pretty dreadful and then
27:27again you know psychologically you know
27:29beat myself up for you know getting
27:32myself in this situation and every
27:34mistake I've ever made and you know you
27:37really it's it's a it's a it's a pretty
27:39grim period frankly but it takes a while
27:42to work your way through it to deal with
27:44the problems to figure out how to make
27:45water and catch food and all that other
27:48stuff and for me that took a couple of
27:50at least a couple of weeks so tell us
27:52how far were you from land at this point
27:54sort of like on day one on the life raft
27:57well you how far were you from land and
28:00I'm guessing with the currents you would
28:02have been drifting away from land back
28:04towards America
28:05yeah the cowboy Verde Islands I think
28:08we're about maybe in six to eight
28:10hundred miles south of me I left the
28:13Canary Islands which were east of me by
28:15about 800 miles and where the current
28:19the wind would take me was like 80 it
28:22was 1800 nautical miles roughly and you
28:26know the raft drifts across the water a
28:28little bit but current also takes you
28:31that way so I just had to wait it out
28:34what was your first priority on day one
28:38like you've you know you've just lived
28:41through an incredible an incredibly
28:43traumatic experience you know surviving
28:47a shipwreck like and your boat goes down
28:49and you're on a life raft what are you
28:52thinking pretty much on day one or the
28:55next morning when the Sun comes up in
28:57terms of survival what was your first
29:00thing was it fresh water or what we're
29:03sort of thinking how are you sort of
29:06prioritizing what you needed to do next
29:07well like I say I really couldn't do
29:11very much for several days because it
29:13was pretty stormy out I mean it was nice
29:15to have daylight that and I didn't
29:17really see the Sun for a while basically
29:20familiarized myself with stuff the first
29:22thing I did
29:23even before drifting off was immediately
29:25tie everything into the boat because if
29:27you lose a piece of gear that could
29:29result in your death so if the Bokke you
29:33know if the raft got tipped upside down
29:34on or something I didn't want to lose
29:35anything I organized my gear as best I
29:39could in the first thing is to stay warm
29:42enough because hypothermia can kill you
29:46in minutes two hours so that's the first
29:48thing once I got that kind of dealt with
29:51on at least on a minimal level the next
29:54priority would be besides keeping the
29:57raft you know I have to pump up the raft
29:58look for any signs of any problems try
30:01to deal with those had a couple little
30:03patches I had to make things like that
30:06but then after that its its water
30:10and it took me a long time to figure out
30:12how to get water I had almost no
30:14rainfall so that was the big the big
30:17challenge for the first couple weeks and
30:19slowly but surely you know everything
30:21that floats around in the ocean becomes
30:23an island develops into ecology so fish
30:25started gathering around the raft and
30:27after a few days and eventually I would
30:30certainly need food so that would that
30:33would have been the next priority but
30:35it's kind of a mix of all those things
30:36and every day I'd get up and I try to
30:39you know go through my Mon you know
30:40determine what needs what should be
30:42prioritized today what needs the most
30:44attention ya til spent the process of
30:47getting fresh water how did you do that
30:52[Music]
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32:00can't miss it and now back to the rest
32:03of the show tell us about the process of
32:05getting fresh water how did you do that
32:08eventually I would evolve better water
32:10catchment systems when I would have a
32:13little bit more rain but it I had almost
32:15no rain for the first almost the first
32:19couple of months and so I relied on
32:22these solar stills that were produced
32:25for down gehrman during the Second World
32:29War there are these balloon like affairs
32:31there they're basically a little
32:35environment a little atmosphere you drip
32:38salt water down on the top and that
32:40evaporates off with a black cloth that's
32:42suspended on the inside and collects on
32:44the inside of this balloon and that
32:46fresh water kind of rains down on the
32:48inside and do a collection bag which is
32:51fine in theory but they had to be
32:53inflated just the right amount I
32:55couldn't use them in the ocean as
32:56directed it took me a while one kept
32:59getting torn apart by the waves and I
33:02finally cut it up to figure out you know
33:04kind of how it was made and
33:07figure out a way of using it which was
33:09basically to tie it on the raft keep the
33:11bottom wet I under 10 do on like every
33:1315 minutes or so make sure that they can
33:15produce but they eventually you know it
33:18would be drip drip drip and in a good
33:21day I could do I could maybe produce
33:24just over a pint somewhere around a bad
33:28day hardly anything during this time
33:31that you're trying to get your water
33:33situation sorted over many days or weeks
33:38and you know only managing to get like a
33:41pint maybe on per day of drinkable water
33:45you would have had to a drunk a lot of
33:48sea water as well
33:50did you know you didn't drink any well
33:53no away from that and you know although
33:57there there are some people who insist
33:59that you can drink some sea water you
34:01know it doesn't hurt you and whatnot
34:03it's really not good it doesn't really
34:06rehydrate you because of the salt
34:08content higher than the soap in the the
34:13salt content within your cells so
34:15eventually you dehydrate you more you
34:18have a you know plenty of fresh water
34:20doesn't hurt you doesn't drink some
34:21saltwater but in those situations that
34:24wouldn't help and so I was very
34:25conscious of that fortunately in my
34:27survival gear I did have eight pints of
34:29water so that gave me a little window of
34:32opportunity I was always really thirsty
34:35and dehydrated through the entire trip
34:37but I was lucky that I was able to
34:40bruise basically just enough to keep one
34:42person alive was a much shade on the
34:46boat you mentioned there was a like a
34:47tent sort of canopy type thing yes how
34:51sort of thin or thick was that material
34:53to provide enough shade or was it was a
34:56much shade at all that you had actually
34:59was helpful it's a yes it's a fairly
35:04thin material but it's it's reinforced
35:07fabric it's got a coating on a bright
35:09orange coating which unfortunates
35:11unfortunately would you know kind of
35:15come off is the canopy got you know
35:18basically waggled around by the
35:20wind and whatnot and would come off in
35:22water when it did rained I was
35:24collecting off the canopy made it
35:25absolutely undrinkable it was like
35:27drinking vomit or something or other was
35:29just really horrible and so I had to
35:33make a system to actually go over that
35:36canopy to collect rainwater but it
35:41provided enough shade and you could see
35:44light through it but not bright Sun but
35:48also I'd been sailing in the you know
35:50kind of mid latitudes to tropics for
35:54almost a year and I was pretty Brown I
35:56wasn't worried about being sunburned is
35:58the bigger issue is dehydration actually
36:01sunburn
36:03tell us about your food situation did
36:06you have any food in your ditch kit or
36:10your life raft at all stashed away I
36:12just I had a little bit of this and I I
36:16don't know I think I had a can of
36:17peanuts and I can't remember now exactly
36:22what I had it was just a few little
36:24items III had a can of beans which I'd
36:28thrown in there at some point but that
36:31by the time I got to that that can was
36:33blown and I didn't want to risk
36:35poisoning myself so immediately I just
36:37chucked it out and I had a half a
36:41cabbage I don't know a few other things
36:46but not really enough of anything I had
36:48to live off the ocean and so fish
36:51started arriving and after a couple of
36:53weeks I began catching fish it just took
36:58a long time to get the technique right
37:01and the fish are fast and a lot smarter
37:05than we give them credit for
37:06so it took took a long time in those
37:11couple weeks was a disagree Klein in
37:14terms of your energy you know your
37:17energy state and your just your hunger
37:20just got more and more hungry every day
37:21and more and more dehydrated was it just
37:23sort of a gradual decline in terms of
37:26your overall health and well-being by
37:29being exposed to that situation yeah
37:34just the first couple of weeks but
37:35basically throughout the entire process
37:37I mean a lot happens pretty quickly for
37:40one thing it's common for survivors who
37:43spent you know up to two to three weeks
37:46in a life raft or a lifeboat lose a
37:48third of their way she lose a lot of
37:50weight right away and then your but your
37:53body has these mechanisms and slows down
37:55your metabolism changes it in starvation
37:58situations and so after a while you're
38:02losing less weight you know perd per day
38:06but you're basically in a start a
38:10chronic starvation mode in a chronic
38:12state of dehydration and it takes it's
38:15you know kind of a long term toll plus
38:17there are other problems I'm you know
38:21I'm in floating in a salt a very salty
38:25environment and water is in and out of
38:27the raft alot I'm wet a lot if your skin
38:30is wet with salt watery develop
38:32saltwater sores which begin is kind of
38:34like little couples on the skin and they
38:35break open and then end up his you know
38:39skin ulcers and survivors and some have
38:44horrible problems with them I had they
38:47were a constant irritation and source of
38:49huge pain and I ended up with hundreds
38:51of them and so you get more and more of
38:53everything as time goes on it's kind of
38:56a slow I in in a drift I I called it a
39:01demo derby of flesh you know I mean
39:03basically that's a you're kind of
39:04watching yourself die in front of your
39:08eyes but at a very slow pace so anytime
39:11you just kind of get on with it you know
39:13and do the best you can with what you
39:15got
39:15tell us about the how you actually
39:17caught fish and you know it would have
39:20taken a while to get the the process
39:22down pat but how did you end up what was
39:26your approach to catching fish to eat
39:30how did you sort of do that did you have
39:32a net or you mentioned you had a spear
39:34gun that yeah I had I had this little
39:37shorty spear gun I tried catching the
39:40fish there were two primary species
39:43around the raft one more trigger fish
39:45which were
39:46foot long or so and they would come up
39:50close to the wrap and kind of nibble it
39:52stuff trying to grow on on the raft and
39:55whatnot and then but they didn't taste
40:00for it all I create be honest they taste
40:02pretty awful and they were also a
40:07problem to catch but the the the better
40:09fish were a direito also known as
40:12mahi-mahi or dolphin fish and those were
40:17big and very fast very powerful and they
40:21the school would collect around the raft
40:24as time went on I looked at myself as
40:26like mayor of duck evil my butler after
40:29being rubber ducky and all the fish were
40:32kind of the citizens in duck evil and I
40:35became quite familiar with them over
40:37time and they seemed to gather you know
40:41around the raft some kind of unknown
40:45reason really but we know this happens
40:47with a lot of pelagic fish like tuna and
40:49whatnot you know if there's a log
40:50floating around they'll they'll school
40:52around it and and so my raft was kind of
40:55my that little island for them and they
40:59would come up and hit the bottom of the
41:02raft we're not really sure why they do
41:04this but they do it and it's can be
41:06quite powerful I'd be very careful if I
41:08laid my head down and make sure it was
41:09up on the bag or something like that
41:11because they really would give it a
41:14whack and they would come with sometimes
41:18and brush the bottom of the raft and so
41:21I used that to my advantage in the end I
41:23figured out that if I pushed my knees
41:25down into this rubber floor they can
41:27come up and brush against my knees which
41:29would get them close to the entryway
41:31where if I was quick enough I might be
41:35able to guess fear into one but they
41:38would the spear and what not is the
41:40voyage lengthened I'd end up tying it
41:42back together again and you know
41:45originally it was a spear they would
41:46shoot but the power strap disappeared so
41:49that I had to lash it together and
41:51eventually the chip disappeared and I'd
41:53have to tie in the hives on it and
41:54whatnot so it's it was a process that
41:56evolved over time but basically that was
41:59it was trying to lure the
42:00then get them close enough to where I
42:02could jab a spear into them and then try
42:05to really careful as this huge fish is
42:07flying out of the water with a spear
42:09through its middle while I'm floating
42:12around in an inflated raft in the middle
42:14of the ocean so it took a while to
42:17figure it all out
42:18you mentioned a while ago and I've heard
42:20on other interviews that you've done you
42:22likened that experience to like a
42:25caveman mentality or a caveman almost
42:29like lifestyle what was the feeling like
42:32I guess undoing the stuff that you'd
42:36been conditioned you know undoing the
42:38normal that the stuff that we take for
42:39granted in normal life you know like
42:42driving a car and paying bills and
42:45dealing with money and those sort of
42:47things when you're shipwrecked floating
42:51in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean
42:52having to create fresh water and and
42:56stab fish with improvised you know with
42:59knives attached to your blunt spear gun
43:03what's that process like stripping away
43:07of your ego stripping away of the things
43:11that you've been conditioned with over a
43:13lifetime and coming back to the core of
43:16being a human being with in the bare
43:20essence of survival mode what's that
43:23sort of process like that's a big
43:26question well I don't know in a way it
43:33was not really conceptually that much
43:38different than taking an ocean voyage
43:40because or anytime you take a trip into
43:44the wilderness your one I think even one
43:50of the reasons I do those things have
43:52always been attracted to those things is
43:54that you are immediately dwarfed by your
43:56surroundings in every way you are a
43:59minor player they're not it's very easy
44:04sure to kind of get the idea that you
44:08know that we're important and you know
44:10everything's sort of human centric but
44:12in the welder
44:13this it's totally not so and like I said
44:17before you know sailing especially a
44:19small boat in the middle of the ocean
44:21you're very close to nature with the
44:24life raft it was that on steroids
44:25obviously and it was very very basic and
44:31it's kind of where I don't know it
44:34becomes sublime in many ways because you
44:38or every everything is important every
44:41moment is important and that's similar
44:44to a lot of sport to like you said you
44:46you know you talk to a lot of extreme
44:48athletes you know I've talked to a lot
44:49of people who've had survival
44:52experiences of various sorts and people
44:55who are into kind of extreme sports and
44:58you know a lot of people I think can
45:00relate to the moment being in the moment
45:03and in a in a situation like mine you
45:09know every moment is important and you
45:12know the tension can be unbearable and
45:14whatnot but your I don't know it's
45:17what's important is air is reality is
45:20the sooner you can get over you know
45:23kind of your ego or your the just wishes
45:26wishful thinking or whatever and come to
45:29grips with what is what's real than the
45:32sooner you can figure out you know
45:34solutions to your problems and those
45:36sorts of things and there's a kind of
45:38high on that I mean in life raft I found
45:41that you know you go through all the
45:45human emotions but the highs are
45:48incredibly high and the lows are
45:50incredibly low and they can be just like
45:52jammed right up together you know you
45:55can find a solution to a problem like
45:59finally figuring out how to get the
46:01solar still to go I mean you feel kind
46:02of like you're the king of the world and
46:04then something else happens you know put
46:08a hole in the rafter you know the
46:10speargun breaks and it's like oh my god
46:12I just don't know how much longer I can
46:14do this so it's it's a different kind of
46:21existence than normal but it it's hard
46:24to draw a line between it and like or
46:26even normal
46:27you know I mean it's a certain degree
46:28normal life is is a survival voyage
46:31Ibbetson now you would have been
46:33constantly on that knife edge of losing
46:37it mentally and remaining in a state of
46:40having that state of hope what kept you
46:44going you know what kept your spirit
46:46strong to try and continue to survive
46:52well fear it was a part of it I don't
46:55think I was ready to go at least not
46:57easily it was all no matter how awful it
47:01was at times it was always easier
47:05somehow to go on with probably one short
47:09exception and towards the end of the
47:11voyage we're at really I felt like I
47:14almost had no more choice to go on but
47:18overall that was that was a part of it
47:20just a just a fear a desire to kind of
47:26fix a lot of things in my life to have a
47:30chance to come back to shore and I don't
47:32know live a better life in many ways
47:34that I got that I had before it was also
47:37another big part of it
47:40things people said to me or people I'd
47:44run across in life you know at least I
47:46was pretty well-traveled and I'd seen
47:49people in parts of the world he
47:53struggled their entire lives to survive
47:56and somehow they not only do they do it
47:59but they find room to smile and laugh
48:04and play so you know it was a
48:09combination of a bunch of things and
48:12certainly it was recognizing that so far
48:16so good you know I've been lucky maybe
48:19I'll remain lucky it's possible I knew
48:23other people had been there before me
48:26I'd read other you know survival and
48:28errors before and I knew it could be
48:31done and slowly working at it and you
48:35know you start figuring it out and you
48:38realize okay well you know
48:40took me a long time but I did find a
48:42solution to this problem and that
48:44problem and so now I have another
48:46problem but that doesn't mean it's the
48:48end just keep plugging away and maybe
48:50you will if you're lucky enough you'll
48:52get through it
48:53you know we've a lot of people seen the
48:55movie castaway did you have like a
48:57Wilson of sorts to sort of keep you sane
49:01yeah actually I loved that part of that
49:04movie that that made that movie real to
49:06me
49:07we all need company we often invent
49:11other people and in the drift ie kind of
49:15divide myself and it's almost three
49:16characters you know I have a emotional
49:19me and a physical me and a rational me
49:21and they all have different needs and
49:23they squabble but amongst themselves and
49:26reach compromises and whatnot so I kind
49:30of had Wilson's within me but I'm the
49:32real Wilson and my story is the fish if
49:34the adrift really is a fish tale and
49:37it's about the glory of nature and these
49:40fish that provided for me like I said I
49:44you know I named my raft rubber ducky I
49:46was the mayor of duck evil and they were
49:47all my little citizens and they were
49:50willing to sacrifice for me but I had
49:54this this I know I held him in awe they
49:59were kind of the spiritual creatures to
50:00me and they were my superiors in that
50:04domain so I honored them and had to kill
50:10them but they kind of I talked to them
50:14and whatnot so they were really were
50:16kind of my Wilson and they kept me going
50:17and thankfully accompany me long enough
50:20to get me to the other end well you
50:23really just hit the mercy of the wind
50:24and the currents
50:25did you have like any always at altar to
50:29sort of help row well I had two little
50:32paddles but you can't really paddle the
50:35life raft except to maybe get away from
50:37a burning boat or something like that
50:38you're certainly not gonna paddle you
50:40know 2,000 miles so and they're there
50:43just for you know kind of short term use
50:45I was able I had a line out the back of
50:49the raft that I served to grow barnacles
50:52on and
50:54for food and had a poll in the end of it
50:57and it also kind of served as a
50:58speedometer I made up a little speed
51:00distance to able to know how fast I was
51:02drifting to the water and forgotten
51:08again what we were talking about the
51:10what were we talking about just the
51:14being able being able to stay about and
51:17and maybe use panels to sort that's
51:21right
51:21yeah I I could kind of position that
51:24when the RAF to encourage the temp to be
51:27used like more of a sail drift
51:29encouraged my drift a little bit South
51:31that's what I wanted to do I wanted to
51:33go as much as far south as I could
51:35because I was afraid of missing the
51:36Caribbean islands and I got too far away
51:39did you see any ships at all yeah I saw
51:43about nine ships the first couple were
51:45pretty close but they never saw my
51:48flares or anything like that tell us
51:50about how look towards the end of the
51:53this survival story where when did you
51:58tell us about the end part of it was it
52:01quite a loop that um you started to
52:04approach our Guadeloupe on the 75th
52:08night you know I've been navigating I
52:10kinda had an idea where I was but I
52:11wasn't sure if my navigation was just
52:14all des frankly but they eventually
52:18lights of the island showed up on the
52:2075th night and the next morning I was
52:24preparing I had to put a little paddle
52:26so I was thinking oh maybe I can paddle
52:27my way around the side of the island
52:29something like that because landing on
52:31the windward side would have been deadly
52:35there were coral Chris sorry coral reefs
52:39along the south shore there was Beach
52:42behind them but I didn't know if I could
52:43get over the coral reefs in order to get
52:46to the shore he hang up 3,000 miles of
52:48open Atlantic breaking on them and the
52:51north side of the island were just all
52:52coral cliffs so there was no that was a
52:54no-go and so I was getting kind of
52:57worried about you know maybe this could
52:59be it I get this far and it could be the
53:01end and but I thought I would wrap
53:05myself up in the bits of cushion I had
53:07and try to get these paddles - you know
53:10kind of guide myself around the side of
53:12the island and I did I heard an engine
53:15and these local fishermen came out and
53:17they they came out to find fish and they
53:20found both me and the fish which was
53:23kind of a welcome conclusion to the end
53:26I mean I knew that they had seen me
53:27because they waved back so no longer was
53:30it just hoped that that some ship would
53:32stop by that they actually were coming
53:33right at me and saw me so I was pretty
53:37elated to say the least and what I
53:39didn't know exactly then but which
53:43became clear very soon was they came out
53:48to find me because of the ecosystem that
53:52had evolved around the rafts so these
53:53direito that surrounded me did become my
53:56friends they become my ocean gods if you
54:00will they nourished me they almost
54:04killed me at one point by holding the
54:08bottom of the raft and in the end they
54:11brought my salvation and so the
54:15fishermen came up they were looking in
54:16the sky saw birds hovering over the raft
54:19because the direito were there and so
54:22they came out to find me what was the
54:25the look on their faces you know when
54:26they sailed up to you and they saw you
54:29you know you'd been adrift for 75 days
54:32or 76 days you would have been full-on
54:37beard you know real skinny what what was
54:41the look on their face when they saw you
54:43um not sure if I can describe their
54:47faces exactly I think that they were
54:49like curious and perplexed people people
54:54go across because it isn't a trade wind
54:56belt a lot of crazy Europeans have
54:59floated across and all kinds of little
55:01boats and one Englishman even went
55:04across and a modified barrel at some
55:06point you know a specially designed
55:07modified barrel and so I think they
55:11might have initially thought this must
55:13be some other fruitcake European guy
55:14come in here and but they also we didn't
55:20have a common
55:21language really one of them is it didn't
55:23speak English she was from Dominica to
55:24the South but really heavy accent and I
55:26didn't really understand what they were
55:28saying because it wasn't like any
55:30language that I had ever really been
55:33familiar with and I it wasn't really
55:36Spanish or anything it turned out it was
55:38you know was Creole French but it's very
55:39very different from French and but he
55:44could understand me this one guy from
55:45Dominica and eventually you made
55:47ourselves understood and I don't know I
55:49just said yeah a lot of people are
55:51surprised but I just had this I was so
55:55in heaven and I had carefully stock
55:58water and fish sticks and all the stuff
56:01and it was like you guys got a fish
56:02there's great fish right here so they
56:04buzzed around and fish for an hour too
56:07until I got to what I called the
56:09afternoon bake-off which was really hard
56:10for me to get through the really hot
56:12afternoon and when they came and loaded
56:15me up with a raft and we zoomed into the
56:18end of the beach when you got onto the
56:21beach could you walk at all no no I in
56:25fact I I was so anxious they you know
56:28they they kind of they come around the
56:29back side of the island and kind of nose
56:31up onto the speech but it's pretty steep
56:33to beach and I almost just like hopped
56:35out over the side and then the guy
56:37grabbed my arm ease another no it's too
56:38deep here yeah I could which would have
56:40been typical of me to have gone that far
56:42and you know jump jumped off and drown
56:45you know ten feet off the beach but I so
56:48I scooted forward and as soon as my feet
56:51hit that soft white Indian sand it was
56:53like the earth was made out of concrete
56:55in a major earthquake and I just fell
56:57flat on my face and these guys just
57:01grabbed me by the arms and lifted me up
57:03and basically just wasted me up to the
57:05local John darn does that mean - can you
57:09remember the first sort of 24 to 48
57:11hours back on land was it just just
57:15rehydrating and eating and sleeping was
57:17that sort of yeah well actually it was I
57:25don't know it was it was kind of a lot
57:27of confusion you know hope eat I got
57:32taken to the local hospital
57:34me and gave me antibiotics for saltwater
57:37sores and gave me some food and although
57:41I was starving I there wasn't really
57:43much else they could do for me and this
57:45woman who was worked in the hospital
57:48invited me home with her to her family
57:51and they fed me more I was there was a
57:53lot of eating involved in the first few
57:55days but then I got actually quite ill
57:58for a while my assistant was not used to
58:02especially you know very hot Creole food
58:05and all that stuff so the first couple
58:08of weeks was was a big adjustment and I
58:11was gaining a lot of weight mostly in
58:13water look like at elephantiasis it was
58:16it was uh it was kind of a whole new I
58:20don't know survival voyage in its own
58:23right for a while but I was well and I
58:25did fine and one thing that was amazing
58:29to me was and you just I was so naive
58:31and I felt like I was really almost
58:34literally reborn that you know all the
58:36colors and smells and everything were
58:38like I was just experiencing them for
58:40the first time people's voices
58:42everything it was just amazingly
58:45heavenly feeling and a feeling of being
58:48at ease that I've never had before
58:50probably since in anyways because I've
58:53been on that knife edge for so long and
58:55then suddenly it just all totally melted
58:58away what did that whole experience
59:00teach you about I guess the human spirit
59:03well I'd certainly taught me that I was
59:05a lot stronger than I thought I could be
59:08and that's very common with survivors
59:11that that I've talked to you you know
59:16early on you're kind of saying oh my god
59:19there's no way I can deal with this but
59:21slowly but surely you put things
59:23together and almost everybody finds out
59:25but there are a lot more resilient than
59:26they think they are
59:28the other thing it did for me was
59:29actually I you know it it pointed out
59:33that very clearly that we go through
59:38things in our lives and a lot of these
59:41experiences are awful in many ways but
59:43there were a lot of very you know and
59:45they're also very potent experiences
59:49spiritually and emotionally and you see
59:54things that are are great wonders that
1:00:00you could only experience by going
1:00:02through it it might it might be just the
1:00:06amazing skies I saw or it might be
1:00:09something more subtle like you know just
1:00:12feeling this deep relationship with this
1:00:14fish on which I depended from my very
1:00:17life so you know I think it's also a
1:00:21very common thing with survivors to say
1:00:24you know well I don't want to go back
1:00:26there but you know I don't regret having
1:00:28gone to the experience a number of years
1:00:30later you were approached by Angley in
1:00:34the movie Life of Pi tell us about that
1:00:37and what sort of advice and help did you
1:00:41provide Angley and the makers of Life of
1:00:44Pi
1:00:47well the Angley was the fourth I believe
1:00:51the fourth director to try to make Life
1:00:53of Pi and before he he committed himself
1:00:57to it he he as all his projects you know
1:01:01it really looks into them and he had a
1:01:02strip private writer David McGee whose
1:01:05son was reading adrift and said hey Dad
1:01:08I you know if you're writing the script
1:01:10about this this boy in the lifeboat in
1:01:12the middle of the Pacific you should go
1:01:13look up this guy yeah which they did and
1:01:16they came up here and we just had a you
1:01:18know a few days together chats about
1:01:20everything from you know what kind of
1:01:23wildlife is there general information
1:01:26about you know how the world works so
1:01:27how currents and weather and all these
1:01:31things were details about life boats all
1:01:34the all the nuts and bolts as well as
1:01:36you know like he was interested in
1:01:40things like you know will tell me about
1:01:43how do you feel spiritually at sea and
1:01:45you know and tell me what it's really
1:01:49like what it feels like you know and
1:01:51that sort of thing and then he went away
1:01:55and a couple years later I got a call
1:01:57from the producers so they got the green
1:01:59light so I ended up going to Taiwan and
1:02:01I did pre-production stuff research
1:02:04feeding images to the visual effects
1:02:07people all that sort of thing looking at
1:02:09the script in this in the storyboards
1:02:12essentially which is in done and in
1:02:15video form as you to say you know give
1:02:19him my two cents worth whether that
1:02:20looked realistic or not my basic charge
1:02:23as he said was to help them try to make
1:02:26it look convincing to feel convincing
1:02:30it's such a whacko story that we tried
1:02:33to make it as real as possible in as
1:02:35many ways as possible and I ended up
1:02:40doing I don't know directing wave tank
1:02:42operations testing the wave tank making
1:02:44and designing props coaching the actor
1:02:49doing just working with pretty much all
1:02:52the departments there which was great
1:02:53fun and a great challenge and a great
1:02:55privilege now just on advice if you
1:02:58could give a listener out there some
1:03:00advice who's wanting to sail across an
1:03:03ocean like the Atlantic Ocean for
1:03:05example is there anything any sort of
1:03:08one or two big tips or any advice that
1:03:11you could give a listener who's wanting
1:03:13to do that Oh
1:03:15start small start with small boats
1:03:20really teach you a lot it's immediate
1:03:23feedback about what you're doing right
1:03:24what are you doing wrong and you're
1:03:25simple before you get up the really
1:03:26complicated things and take things step
1:03:29by step I guess and see how you feel see
1:03:32if you like it see if you love it I
1:03:34think that if you're gonna do an
1:03:35offshore trip you'd better love it it'd
1:03:38be like you know I don't know if you
1:03:42think you're really option going
1:03:44offshore you know it's like climbing a
1:03:46major that could be like climbing an
1:03:50incredibly major amount you really are
1:03:52in the wilderness and you're totally on
1:03:53your own so you got to take it one step
1:03:55at a time
1:03:56now you're booked adrift 76 days lost at
1:04:00sea you can get that on amazon also
1:04:03audible whereabouts can people find your
1:04:07website and your other sort of social
1:04:10media and stuff like that
1:04:12oh I have a website Steven Callahan net
1:04:15yeah and um like Sam I'm not I'm not a
1:04:19young fella like like you probably are
1:04:21and so I'm probably not as adept at all
1:04:24the social media is everybody else III
1:04:27think I have a page on Facebook but I'm
1:04:30not terribly good at keeping up with it
1:04:32but I do have a website and there's a
1:04:35lot more info about you know my around
1:04:37there articles on there yeah I'll put a
1:04:39link to that and a link to your book as
1:04:42well yeah appreciate you coming on to
1:04:44the podcast and it's an incredible story
1:04:46and it's been a real privilege speaking
1:04:49with you and and you know hearing about
1:04:52what you've lived through it's quite
1:04:54incredible well thank you Matthew I I
1:04:58appreciate the opportunity you're
1:04:59talking to you and and all your
1:05:01listeners oh cool all right well thanks
1:05:03again to coming on all right you've just
1:05:12been listening to the born to kick-ass
1:05:14podcast at border kick-ass comm if he
1:05:17likes what you heard and one more please
1:05:19subscribe on iTunes give a 5-star rating
1:05:23and a kick-ass review this really helps
1:05:26to boost our presence and continues to
1:05:29allow us to introduce you to the most
1:05:31fascinating people on the planet
1:05:33welcome aboard and catch you next time
1:05:39[Music]
1:05:56[Music]

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