Breaking Period Stigma: Sulabh’s MHM Knowledge Hub — Transcript

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1. 0:00this episode of the Zulu pocast is
2. 0:03sponsored by Zulu Inc a benefit
3. 0:05Corporation dedicated to the goal of
4. 0:08universal access to toilets hygiene
5. 0:11clean water and sanitation through the
6. 0:13power of social Enterprise learn more at
7. 0:16zulu.com we just want we just want love
8. 0:19and peace in the world and toilets and
9. 0:22tampons love peace and
10. 0:24tampons love love just let let the
11. 0:27toilets let the toilets flow okay let
12. 0:30the let the tampons and the vation pads
13. 0:33be
14. 0:34abundant anyway I thought I
15. 0:38thought welcome to the Zulu pocast where
16. 0:42we talk all things poop toilets and
17. 0:45sanitation through insightful news
18. 0:48impact stories and quirky humor we aim
19. 0:50to discuss and highlight the critical
20. 0:53role toilets play in whisking poop out
21. 0:55of our Lives the impact toilets have or
22. 0:59lack thereof in the health and wellness
23. 1:01of humanity and what Zulu is doing to
24. 1:04help solve the current Global sanitation
25. 1:07crisis hello hello everybody Welcome to
26. 1:11another stupendous episode of the Zulu
27. 1:15pocast we're so grateful to have you
28. 1:16here with us today we had a really
29. 1:19special interview with two incredible
30. 1:21humans um suti and nerja and I'm
31. 1:24actually going to let Suzanne talk a
32. 1:25little bit more about them and their
33. 1:27organization because you had been
34. 1:29conversing for a and you actually met Su
35. 1:33actually no I haven't met him yet but
36. 1:34we've had quite a few conversations um
37. 1:36and also with n so yeah they're both
38. 1:39just amazing individuals both so
39. 1:41talented so intelligent they both have
40. 1:43just accomplished so much in their lives
41. 1:45and they're so driven they're actually
42. 1:47with
43. 1:48um the um I always I never I
44. 1:52always I always might to say it
45. 1:54differently but the sulab um with an H
46. 1:57on the end that you don't that you don't
47. 1:58say that's why it throws me out yeah
48. 2:00yeah suab International which is based
49. 2:03out of um the country of India they are
50. 2:05a um a social service
51. 2:07organization and um they recently did a
52. 2:11study where they went to several
53. 2:13different states throughout India and
54. 2:15they collected data they're more than a
55. 2:16I mean they're like they're like the
56. 2:18largest uh toilet distributor yeah
57. 2:21distributor in manufactur yes we met
58. 2:24them at the world toilet Summit in
59. 2:26Africa a couple years ago we met Kumar
60. 2:28who Kumar MH and uh we've had uh his
61. 2:31founder his late father on the show MH
62. 2:34and we've had a number of suab
63. 2:36Representatives on the show definitely
64. 2:38uh but but the more we get to know about
65. 2:39it the more we get to know the
66. 2:40organization we're just so impressed and
67. 2:43uh great the breadth of their work is
68. 2:45really impressive when you have 50,000
69. 2:4750,000
70. 2:4953 know 60,000 60,000 employees
71. 2:53employees you know you can get a lot of
72. 2:56done get a lot of things done so yeah
73. 2:59we're super excited but go ahead you
74. 3:00were talking about the men so so they
75. 3:02they they build toilets but then they
76. 3:03also have this
77. 3:05menstration project that they're working
78. 3:07on and they also do things to help with
79. 3:09um food security so they have like a
80. 3:11whole arm where they make money and then
81. 3:13they have all these different charities
82. 3:14and all these things they do to help
83. 3:16people and that's why Kumar's like
84. 3:18father has he's actually received the
85. 3:20Gandhi award multiple times and he's
86. 3:22just an incredible man um unfortunately
87. 3:25he passed last September but yeah his
88. 3:27legacy lives on in his work and so we
89. 3:29have we had him on the show like last U
90. 3:32about a year ago yeah and which was
91. 3:35timely I mean he passed away couple oh
92. 3:38it was a heart attack wasn't expected he
93. 3:40he he was very energetic and look he had
94. 3:43another 20 years to go and then you know
95. 3:44happened yeah it was his time but uh
96. 3:46anyway yeah yeah so um so this is part
97. 3:50of the mission of uh what they're
98. 3:51wanting to do now is to focus in on
99. 3:53women a lot and how women are struggling
100. 3:55because of menstruation and the stigma
101. 3:57that's around um menstration so they're
102. 4:00so excited because the conversations are
103. 4:02happening and like suti said like we
104. 4:03were both really comfortable you know
105. 4:05talking about menstration he goes see
106. 4:07this is like progress right here because
107. 4:08you and I are talking about it you know
108. 4:10right right and so um what nja did is
109. 4:12she went to several different states
110. 4:14throughout India and she collected data
111. 4:15on this topic and they kind of broke
112. 4:18down the differences between um how it's
113. 4:20treated differently amongst Christians
114. 4:22Muslims and Hindus and so it's called
115. 4:25mhm so it's the H the menstrual Health
116. 4:28Management and and so um we're looking
117. 4:31forward to another follow-up you know
118. 4:33interview to find out more about that so
119. 4:35that's what suti has been over I mean
120. 4:37excuse me nerja has been over that and
121. 4:39then suti um works for the organization
122. 4:42as well but he is also a world renowned
123. 4:45expert over um slavery the sex
124. 4:48trafficking unfortunately that happens
125. 4:50around the world so um just kind of it's
126. 4:52related to toilets and the sense that
127. 4:54you've got you know people women are
128. 4:56vulnerable women are vulnerable going
129. 4:58out to these public facilities and then
130. 5:00they some disappear yeah so um yeah so
131. 5:04that's um that's a little bit of intro
132. 5:06about the two of them so yeah we're
133. 5:08really excited we're hoping that Zulu is
134. 5:10gonna make it to India soon and they and
135. 5:11I've invited them to come here and I
136. 5:13just have showed them recently pictures
137. 5:14of arches and stuff and they're like
138. 5:15that's amazing yeah so we're like you
139. 5:17come here and we'll show you around and
140. 5:19we go we'll do like an exchange student
141. 5:21program there we go that great yeah it
142. 5:24was a great interview and we'll get into
143. 5:26it in a minute but first little bit of
144. 5:28Po new but the news of course and and
145. 5:31related to that I me you talk about
146. 5:32women's suffering and um um you know
147. 5:35this this is an article about the uh uh
148. 5:38situation that women are facing in Gaza
149. 5:41at the moment and regardless of where
150. 5:43you how you feel about I mean a lot it's
151. 5:46a kind of a polarizing issue a lot of
152. 5:48people have a lot of passion about you
153. 5:51know uh the nature of that conflict um
154. 5:56uh but really this and this this news
155. 5:57could apply in any conflict I mean
156. 5:59there's so many different conflicts in
157. 6:01the world and and unfortunately women
158. 6:03and children bear the brunt of of War
159. 6:07you know war is just a bad bad thing and
160. 6:10is anti- toilet so we're anti-war of
161. 6:13course but
162. 6:14um anyway but this this this article
163. 6:17talks about just the the uh uh because
164. 6:20you know the the uh a lot of women in
165. 6:24Gaza that're crowded into these um
166. 6:27unsanitary camps
167. 6:30um and their uh you know obviously
168. 6:33ministration is a
169. 6:34problem um they
170. 6:38um I mean obviously food and water but
171. 6:41you know just the basics right Food
172. 6:42Water Sanitation and you know a lot of
173. 6:44in a lot of places the water has been uh
174. 6:47destroyed and infrastructure is gone and
175. 6:50so there's really uh they talk about
176. 6:52there's no no really way to keep clean
177. 6:54no way to be
178. 6:55comfortable um and so which I was
179. 6:58surprised they learn like many women and
180. 7:00girls living in the Gaza Strip have
181. 7:01opted to start taking birth control as a
182. 7:04way to stop their periods uh as the
183. 7:07conflict near its eth eth month which um
184. 7:10has it really been that long uh they
185. 7:12said they've tried everything from Adult
186. 7:15Diapers to dirty cloths they could find
187. 7:17but but
188. 7:20um anyway but yeah there's I guess a
189. 7:22half a million men trading women in Gaza
190. 7:24so you know hopefully that conflict
191. 7:26will you know resolve somehow soon but
192. 7:29but really it could apply I mean really
193. 7:31you could um that could be true of
194. 7:34Ukraine that could be true of like
195. 7:36anywhere you have uh war and conflict
196. 7:39and infrastructure being disrupted
197. 7:41you're going to have food Water
198. 7:43Sanitation problems right and
199. 7:45menstration obviously is along goes
200. 7:46along with that um you know they're
201. 7:50talking about there's no there's no
202. 7:51bathrooms obviously um they they figure
203. 7:55there's uh 690,000 administrating women
204. 7:58and adolescent girls Gaza currently um
205. 8:01but anyway uh but that really I mean how
206. 8:04do you guys I mean any comments or
207. 8:07thoughts about that well when you think
208. 8:09at least for me when I think of War I
209. 8:11think about movies I've seen and books
210. 8:12I've read and none of
211. 8:14them it's not talking about the dayto
212. 8:16day of what war looks like if you are a
213. 8:18mother if you are a teenage girl if you
214. 8:20are trying to raise kids like it comes
215. 8:23down to okay yes there's a bomb and also
216. 8:26I'm on my period like how do you do life
217. 8:29how do
218. 8:30I mean life goes on under the most
219. 8:32extreme conditions and yet there's no
220. 8:35infrastructure in these kinds of
221. 8:36situations for women to provide for
222. 8:39themselves or for the children it's it
223. 8:43it's very disheartening and mindblowing
224. 8:45I I'm wondering how they're making it
225. 8:47through yeah exactly so yeah I guess
226. 8:51well I guess birth control and
227. 8:52apparently they have access to birth
228. 8:54control well which is which is helpful
229. 8:56but that can end up you know being on
230. 8:59yeah sure because of the side effects of
231. 9:02being on birth control and then then you
232. 9:04reduces your likelihood of getting
233. 9:06pregnant you know there's just a lot of
234. 9:07things yeah right right yeah so yeah I'm
235. 9:10we're we're certainly all for um we just
236. 9:13want we just want love and peace in the
237. 9:16world and toilets and tampons love peace
238. 9:18and tampons yeah love love let the
239. 9:23toilets let the toilets flow okay let
240. 9:26let the let the tampons and the vation
241. 9:28pads be abundant yes that is our pray
242. 9:31anyway I thought I I thought I I saw
243. 9:33this article I thought it was applicable
244. 9:35to what we're talking about today with
245. 9:37respect to Administration this report in
246. 9:39India uh you know thankfully there's no
247. 9:42active war going on in India but still
248. 9:44you know just a daily access to those
249. 9:46kinds of things and uh you know whether
250. 9:48it's um whether it's economic conflict
251. 9:51or whether it's War conflict or economic
252. 9:53uh issues I mean they're certainly it's
253. 9:56just it's just thing something that you
254. 9:58know you're hop that uh we can shed
255. 10:01light on it yeah shed light on it and
256. 10:03then obviously you know try to bring
257. 10:05some solutions or highlight those people
258. 10:07like suab International who is doing an
259. 10:10amazing J to to to make a difference in
260. 10:14N you know she gets so passionate about
261. 10:16it and she's like it's just science you
262. 10:17know it is it's science it's biology and
263. 10:19and I think that's the thing is like
264. 10:21they just want to really focus on
265. 10:22breaking down the stigma and educating
266. 10:24people and and you know there's these
267. 10:27fathers that are now kind of celebrating
268. 10:29talking more openly with their daughters
269. 10:30and stuff like that about it which is
270. 10:32great and and you know it's it's a
271. 10:34matter of life and I mean if if women
272. 10:36didn't have periods there would life
273. 10:37wouldn't exist so it's certainly like
274. 10:40not anything that we should be ashamed
275. 10:42of absolutely but we're making progress
276. 10:45we are those conversations are happening
277. 10:48it was wonderful to sit down and chat
278. 10:49with these guys so let's jump into that
279. 10:51and you guys can learn more about mhm
280. 10:53and get to know these amazing
281. 10:55people we are extremely grateful to be
282. 10:58sitting down today with nja and suti who
283. 11:01are both members of you know work for
284. 11:04sulab international am I saying that one
285. 11:06correctly I want to make sure I get it
286. 11:08right okay which is a social service
287. 11:11organization in India and honestly the
288. 11:14breadth and scope of the work they do is
289. 11:17is vast it's
290. 11:19incredible um today we're going to be
291. 11:22talking specifically about um some
292. 11:27really impactful initiatives that suti
293. 11:30and N are working on around um
294. 11:32menstruation Health hygiene awareness
295. 11:36you know how that's affecting um women
296. 11:39in India and of course that's not just
297. 11:41specific to women that really affects
298. 11:43you know the entirety of a culture um
299. 11:47and so I have a lot of questions I've
300. 11:49been researching all morning and I'm
301. 11:51very very excited to hear more about
302. 11:53this but before we dive into the deep
303. 11:55end you know we would love to hear a
304. 11:58little bit more about both of you your
305. 12:00backgrounds and what led you to um you
306. 12:03know working with suab and specifically
307. 12:05this uh menstrual health project so
308. 12:08nerja we'll start with
309. 12:11you okay yeah so yes you you know my
310. 12:16name I'm n and um josine I have josn and
311. 12:20team I have been working in this
312. 12:23development sector since last four
313. 12:26decades uh basically as gender expert
314. 12:30uh so I see everything with gender lens
315. 12:33I see livelihood I see urbanization I
316. 12:35see climate change I see health I see
317. 12:39education uh any issue if you call it I
318. 12:42see it with gender lens and and then
319. 12:45there are
320. 12:46multiple
321. 12:48intersectionalities but gender comes
322. 12:50first to me so 40 years I have been
323. 12:52working on this and um have worked ex um
324. 12:55intensively on the sector of domestic
325. 12:58violence sexual harassment at
326. 13:01workplace uh livelihood climate
327. 13:04resilient agriculture economic uh and
328. 13:06social empowerment of women and many
329. 13:09other topics pertaining to gender uh how
330. 13:13do you how do you see gender in an urban
331. 13:15situation how do you see gender in a
332. 13:17rural situation how do you see so you
333. 13:20know seeing that brought me to suab that
334. 13:24how do you how does SU love sees menal
335. 13:27hyi when it works on on sanitation and
336. 13:30wash and it has been working since more
337. 13:33than half a century
338. 13:35now um so that's what brought me to suab
339. 13:39that they want to really work on uh
340. 13:43menstrual health and hygiene they have
341. 13:45been working suab has been working for a
342. 13:48very very long time on toilets and
343. 13:50sanitation suti will talk in detail
344. 13:52about it uh but my direct what do you
345. 13:57say that uh intervention happened the
346. 14:00moment I came is with the menstrual
347. 14:02hygiene and uh I propos this study to
348. 14:06suab and my president Mr Kumar they very
349. 14:10happily AG very eagerly agreed that yes
350. 14:12we should come out with our own data
351. 14:14because it's always wise to work on your
352. 14:16own data if you take some others data
353. 14:19because other datas are into their own
354. 14:21context okay so if we do have our own
355. 14:24direct data we we do suab knows
356. 14:28everything about wash and sanitation and
357. 14:31keeping all those things they will be
358. 14:32working uh we will be collecting the
359. 14:34data so under all those
360. 14:37circumstances of course it was
361. 14:39very uh energy intensive and very
362. 14:42resource intensive but with all his
363. 14:45support we and suti support we started
364. 14:48the report and we released our report it
365. 14:50was very well accepted and our report
366. 14:53talks a multiple things when I I'll come
367. 14:55out later on the recommendation which is
368. 14:58proposed which which has the report has
369. 15:00proposed but I'll tell you that as we
370. 15:03have through this report reached out to
371. 15:05411 million people
372. 15:08women and uh our un say that number
373. 15:11again how many million1 411 411 million
374. 15:17women million yeah yeah and our sample
375. 15:19size has been
376. 15:214839 because normally uh scientific
377. 15:24method of any research is 10% of the
378. 15:27sample size you should have so we should
379. 15:29we we we work with a sample size of 48
380. 15:3339 women and the plethora of information
381. 15:37came out so
382. 15:39that we we captured all the realities
383. 15:42and based on those reality
384. 15:43recommendations have been proposed which
385. 15:46I'll be talking later on I don't want to
386. 15:47take much time now I'll let sui come out
387. 15:51uh take his share of time now to
388. 15:53introduce himself yeah well we we
389. 15:57definitely want to hear from SU I I just
390. 15:59want to go back a little bit and
391. 16:01reiterate some of the things that you
392. 16:03brought up I think that is a really
393. 16:05interesting and maybe A New Perspective
394. 16:07at least for me and and probably some of
395. 16:09our listeners to think about these big
396. 16:12Global topics from a gender lens you
397. 16:15know climate change and uh economics
398. 16:20that's not I don't think that's many
399. 16:23people's first instinct to see it
400. 16:25through a gender lens um so that's a
401. 16:28really interesting way to inform the um
402. 16:32you know projects like this and you know
403. 16:36what are what are we hoping to get out
404. 16:38of it and how are we seeing it you know
405. 16:40it's just a better way to balance the
406. 16:42scales I think um which is which is very
407. 16:46you know it's fascinating um and just I
408. 16:48want to make sure that our listeners
409. 16:50understand this project that you've
410. 16:52taken on is to it it sounds like in the
411. 16:56beginning stages it's a research project
412. 16:58it's
413. 16:59understanding the um you know the
414. 17:03perspectives on and the stigma around
415. 17:05menstration particularly for young girls
416. 17:08and what effect it's having on them both
417. 17:11economically for education for their
418. 17:13health so you've gathered an immense
419. 17:16amount of data and then later you'll be
420. 17:19coming out with a recommendation do I
421. 17:21have that right yes yeah yeah okay okay
422. 17:25good got it it's a fascinating you some
423. 17:29you sumed it up properly yeah so based
424. 17:32on the recommendation see it's not only
425. 17:34a particular country's issue it's
426. 17:36basically a gender issue okay wherever
427. 17:38the gender is there menstrual hygiene is
428. 17:41going to be there and we are half of the
429. 17:43population if our sexual reproductive
430. 17:46Health rights it's connected with that
431. 17:48and if this menstrual health is not okay
432. 17:50then half of the population will be
433. 17:52suffering and now this menual health not
434. 17:56only now now at least people have
435. 17:57started talking about
436. 17:59but it has direct connect with the
437. 18:01mental health issues so it's no more
438. 18:04only a gender issue I think I will again
439. 18:07say this Su sui will say even men should
440. 18:10be talking about it because it is it is
441. 18:13nothing to do with a stigma and you know
442. 18:16I call it it's it's not only
443. 18:19a menstral health issue it's it's it's
444. 18:22it's not only menal cycle it's basically
445. 18:24a Cy cycle of neglect okay it's a cycle
446. 18:28of NE NE and the kind of a neglect and
447. 18:31the and declining the issues declining
448. 18:35the health issues and keeping Silence
449. 18:37about keep being silent about it has
450. 18:40created a bigger problem I mean in our
451. 18:43generation we took it very traditionally
452. 18:45we suffered very quietly but in today's
453. 18:48generation it is impacting People's
454. 18:50Health mental
455. 18:52health at least now people are talking
456. 18:54about it I so I would say that it's min
457. 18:59health is not only a
458. 19:01menstral cycle it's a cycle of neglect
459. 19:04so from that premise we designed the
460. 19:07study and um the study is not only
461. 19:11onetime thing it's basically as I said
462. 19:14the taking the full understanding health
463. 19:17issues social issues livelihood issue
464. 19:19why mental why menual health is not
465. 19:21being uh why people are not able to take
466. 19:23care of their menstrual health so you
467. 19:25know as as as see none of the issues
468. 19:28that remain in silence as I said
469. 19:30intersectionality the intersectionality
470. 19:32will come in whether they are poor
471. 19:34whether they are illiterate whether they
472. 19:36are living in a particular kind of a
473. 19:37condition I remember josine um and
474. 19:40Suzanne and Daren
475. 19:42last Suzanne had sent me a link where
476. 19:45you had filmed um your one of the
477. 19:48project in Hyderabad and under the was
478. 19:51that lxmi I remember her name lxmi
479. 19:54saying that in the toilet during the
480. 19:56monsoon they even have the fear of
481. 19:59snakes coming in yeah yeah okay in their
482. 20:02toilet the snakes coming in so you know
483. 20:05the wash
484. 20:06infrastructure the the the social taboo
485. 20:08about it the Purity impurity part of it
486. 20:12whereas menstruation is a very normal
487. 20:16healthy biological process but this
488. 20:19stigma and this taboo has made it such a
489. 20:22devil then nobody wants to temper it so
490. 20:25so if if we women will not talk about it
491. 20:28who will talk talk about it if we will
492. 20:29not do a research on this who else will
493. 20:31do the research on this and because it
494. 20:33is our problem and we'll have to voice
495. 20:35it out so yeah this is it this is what I
496. 20:38have to say yeah well it I mean it is a
497. 20:42multifaceted you're right I I I I
498. 20:44watched an interview with you on on a
499. 20:46news station and you said no problem
500. 20:48exists in a silo it influences and is
501. 20:51influenced by all of these you know many
502. 20:54other factors um Su I I'd love to hear
503. 20:58from you and kind of where you fit into
504. 21:00the project and what are you
505. 21:03finding well uh my kind of Confrontation
506. 21:08or maybe maybe my engagement with you
507. 21:11know menual hygiene management I have to
508. 21:15go bit backwards in time because earlier
509. 21:17I used to work as a you know women and
510. 21:20girls uh development journalist really I
511. 21:22used to cover women and girls issues
512. 21:24from across South Asia for for several
513. 21:27you know International media such as you
514. 21:28know the BBC the national public radio
515. 21:30in United States uh women and girls
516. 21:33deeply and I had a kind of firstand
517. 21:36understanding of the stigma that women
518. 21:39in rural area especially in Nepal and in
519. 21:42in parts of India kind of face because I
520. 21:45used to do a lot of research around
521. 21:47human trafficking and various forms of
522. 21:49modern
523. 21:50slavery uh rape and uh things like that
524. 21:53and I would always see you know how
525. 21:56menual hygiene always always very big
526. 21:59issue especially in Nepal you know I saw
527. 22:01that you know in rural Nepal that
528. 22:02whenever women went through period you
529. 22:06know they was kind of sent outside the
530. 22:07house you know they would kind of sleep
531. 22:09under a Cow Shed and that's my firstand
532. 22:12experience now for suab international
533. 22:14this project was very significant
534. 22:16because SUV has been working in the
535. 22:18field of Sanitation and water since
536. 22:211970 and for SUV for any intervention
537. 22:25that SUV has designed women has been the
538. 22:27entry point
539. 22:29like when you go to a new community you
540. 22:31know it's is a confidence of the women
541. 22:33that you earn the trust of the women and
542. 22:35that's we do that by kind of talking to
543. 22:38them by becoming their friends by
544. 22:39engaging them the Su of kind of because
545. 22:42Su of the program is always through
546. 22:45through uh women because that's how
547. 22:48sanitation projects are implemented uh
548. 22:50we has this experience of understanding
549. 22:53the issues around menstruation and
550. 22:56across different communities uh
551. 22:59in India because every state has got its
552. 23:01own issues own culture Su has been doing
553. 23:04this for a very long time and SUV has
554. 23:07been engaging children SUV has got his
555. 23:09own International School sanitation Club
556. 23:12where school children and University
557. 23:15students do a lot of advocacy around
558. 23:17menstrual hygiene but that was going on
559. 23:20since last two decades but um uh now the
560. 23:24scope of mhm is not really defined even
561. 23:26properly within the de as sustainable
562. 23:29development goal Gambit it's not really
563. 23:31defined properly I mean it's not really
564. 23:34clear where it actually sits I mean even
565. 23:37in the case of India sometimes you know
566. 23:39is it with the ministry of know
567. 23:41sanitation and water or does it with the
568. 23:44ministry of women and child welfare it's
569. 23:46not really clear and sdg gos also do
570. 23:50Define it now sulv with its experience
571. 23:53it was we felt that it was um important
572. 23:56for us to have our own data as new
573. 23:59mentioned but also most of the studies
574. 24:02around mhm is focused on adolescence
575. 24:07like if you look up the UNICEF report
576. 24:08it's mainly focused on that but this
577. 24:11study is from you know menopause to
578. 24:13menar like age group of 16 all the way
579. 24:16up to 49 the scope is huge and uh uh we
580. 24:22we understand from studies that you know
581. 24:23lot of changes happen when when a girl
582. 24:25gets married and goes to another family
583. 24:27and the State another place so that's
584. 24:31why we felt that as n mentioned it was
585. 24:33important for us to collect a primary
586. 24:37data uh Frankly Speaking it was uh the
587. 24:41research was led by nja and other
588. 24:43research were primarily women and the
589. 24:45reasons behind that as a men though as a
590. 24:47men I have been working on women's
591. 24:49issues for very very long time but on
592. 24:51this
593. 24:52particular research it was led by women
594. 24:56you know and there are social and
595. 24:57cultural factors uh behind this uh but
596. 25:02my part is that mainly because is that
597. 25:04mainly because men don't don't want I
598. 25:06mean it obviously they're associated
599. 25:09with women and exposed to that but it's
600. 25:11just something they just don't want to
601. 25:13don't want to address or talk about is
602. 25:15it's more approachable is that is that
603. 25:17the the
604. 25:19cultural difference
605. 25:21there well I think there are
606. 25:23international wh guidelines as well when
607. 25:25it comes to doing research around women
608. 25:28uh it is prefer that it's led by women
609. 25:30because obviously there are issues that
610. 25:33women might not be very comfortable
611. 25:35speaking in front of men for example if
612. 25:38I were to go and ask about mhm and you
613. 25:41know the stigma or the the bodily
614. 25:43changes that happens in a women's body
615. 25:46they might not be very very you know
616. 25:48open about it especially in rural
617. 25:50communities so normally is advis that
618. 25:52when you do this kind of research you
619. 25:54always have women translators and
620. 25:57research but in this case it was because
621. 25:59the communities that we were dealing
622. 26:01with are primary rural communities and
623. 26:04the districts where this research um was
624. 26:07conducted are some of the poorest in
625. 26:10India in the sense that the least
626. 26:12developed districts of India and there
627. 26:16are tribal communities you know who were
628. 26:18included who are part of these studies
629. 26:20there were uh communities that have been
630. 26:23living in the margins you know means
631. 26:25communities that do not have that kind
632. 26:26of exposure so ethically it was not SE
633. 26:30proper for a men to be on the ground for
634. 26:34this particular research it's purely for
635. 26:36ethical consideration it was felt that
636. 26:39we should lead This
637. 26:41research yeah I I think I think many of
638. 26:44our listeners you know we're we're in
639. 26:45the states and you know every country
640. 26:48every culture you know how they approach
641. 26:50Women's Health reproduction menstration
642. 26:53it it varies you know um by religion by
643. 26:57geography
644. 26:59I'm curious though if you can kind of
645. 27:01explain to our mostly you know North
646. 27:04American listeners what is the stigma
647. 27:07around
648. 27:08menstruation and
649. 27:10and why is that why is it seen as you
650. 27:13know something that you you go out there
651. 27:14and you deal with that on your own and
652. 27:16you come back when you're done why how
653. 27:18has it become that and and what what is
654. 27:22it really that is the stigma I think
655. 27:24that would be
656. 27:26um yeah I I don't know that in the
657. 27:28states really understand what it is my
658. 27:32experience of doing stories around
659. 27:34menstruation you know and you know a few
660. 27:36years back I did a story it's about a
661. 27:39comic book you know uh that uh has been
662. 27:42published by an activist you know uh to
663. 27:45kind of educate uh rural women and girls
664. 27:50about menstruation so through through
665. 27:52you know graphical presentation and uh
666. 27:57when I interviewed her she kind of
667. 27:58mentioned that how even uh the fact that
668. 28:01she was growing up in a well to-do
669. 28:03educated and middle class family you
670. 28:05know there was an absolute silence
671. 28:08around period because she came from a
672. 28:10you know a smaller town you know no one
673. 28:13in the family would ever talk about it
674. 28:14and some of the harmful cultural
675. 28:17practices if you call it were kind of
676. 28:18enforced you know like for example if
677. 28:21you have periods you not supposed to be
678. 28:22praying or you know or you're not
679. 28:24supposed to be cooking food and so on
680. 28:25and so forth It's only later on you know
681. 28:28when um she was studying and uh and then
682. 28:31you know she started talking about it
683. 28:33with her boyfriend because you know she
684. 28:34would have these cramps and someone
685. 28:36needed to go to the medical uh shop to
686. 28:39get the you know travels and the pads
687. 28:41and her boyfriend had no idea what it is
688. 28:44all about now he as a man grew up in a
689. 28:47different culture but he has zero
690. 28:48knowledge for the first time he came to
691. 28:51know that whe there something called
692. 28:52period and women go go through this and
693. 28:55and they decided to change this you know
694. 28:57and they came up with this idea of comic
695. 29:00book and the second is obviously I went
696. 29:02to different parts of India and also
697. 29:04neighboring countries like Bangladesh
698. 29:06and Nepal and Myanmar so again there are
699. 29:10some cultures in South Asia where the
700. 29:13period is celebrated for example in
701. 29:15northeast of indiaan the state of Assam
702. 29:18when a girl kind of attends puberty
703. 29:20there's a kind of a party like the
704. 29:22social function that's also true but
705. 29:24then the other side you know the stigma
706. 29:27is also a lot to do with economic
707. 29:29factors as well you know I mean the
708. 29:30India that you see see today and the
709. 29:32India that you see 30 or 40 years back
710. 29:35are very different scenarios at least in
711. 29:38the cities you know people are more
712. 29:40vocal things are changing and evolving
713. 29:42you know uh but 20 30 years back things
714. 29:45were very different you know it's lot to
715. 29:47do with also education level of parents
716. 29:50and you know uh so there are various
717. 29:53social and economic reason behind this
718. 29:57but it's mainly to to do with culture
719. 29:59but now culture is changing you know the
720. 30:02world is more connected and uh you know
721. 30:04and there's lot more awareness around
722. 30:07these issues so in some Quarters at
723. 30:09least in urban areas again again some
724. 30:11percentage of people only talk about it
725. 30:14it's not everyone is talking about it
726. 30:17yeah like you know he said that things
727. 30:19are changing and uh that's good you you
728. 30:22you know yes things are changing like
729. 30:25you know that lots of rural migration to
730. 30:28urban areas and urban area is being
731. 30:32populated whereas rural areas is
732. 30:35completely vacant like you know hardly
733. 30:39anybody but what happens when you come
734. 30:41to urban areas you you start living in a
735. 30:44small houses okay menstruation has been
736. 30:48taken more as suti said like you know
737. 30:52like very it comes into some kind of
738. 30:54religion part of it they take it so
739. 30:58in those small houses the in the urban
740. 31:02area hygiene is Con hygiene is taken
741. 31:04care to some
742. 31:06extent but the the the the stigma is not
743. 31:10the stigma is still there that she won't
744. 31:13go into the kitchen she won't touch
745. 31:14pickles she won't do s particular kind
746. 31:16of things okay whereas in rural area
747. 31:19what he said is correct that you know
748. 31:21there are menu menstruating H Huts in
749. 31:26India where you
750. 31:29HS yeah so she has to stay there for
751. 31:31three to five days till her menstruation
752. 31:33is over uh like you know food will be
753. 31:36served to her but she will not go around
754. 31:39anywhere she will stick to that her uh
755. 31:42yes um villagers they say that it is for
756. 31:45her rest and all she should rest during
757. 31:47this period but that is also a kind of a
758. 31:50discrimination like you know that that
759. 31:52girl is completely out of the house and
760. 31:54staying alone in that particular kind of
761. 31:55heart so you that those practices are
762. 31:58there in if you go to southern part of
763. 32:00India there are celebration but
764. 32:02celebrations are in a very different
765. 32:05tone I would say the celebration is yes
766. 32:08my daughter is started menstruating now
767. 32:10she's ready for marriage so if the girl
768. 32:13starts menstruating from the age of 13
769. 32:16or 14 she's not ready for marriage she's
770. 32:18mentally not ready for marriage okay so
771. 32:21that also has a very different
772. 32:22connotation to it so and that comes on
773. 32:25the genda like you know that that will
774. 32:27come on that girl if she gets married
775. 32:29she starts producing children just
776. 32:31because she's um and then there there
777. 32:33are restrictions because now she started
778. 32:36menstruating if she goes out alone out
779. 32:38of the house what will happen what if
780. 32:41what if she gets raped what if that rap
781. 32:43she like you know if she conceives so
782. 32:46these are the fear which are which have
783. 32:49been in many which ways told to a girl
784. 32:52in a many traditional ritualistic ways
785. 32:56okay these are the insecurities which
786. 32:58has uh so yes massive and our
787. 33:02recommendation is that massive awareness
788. 33:05and um awareness sessions and workshops
789. 33:08and seminars is required I mean if you
790. 33:11go to an very educated family also but
791. 33:13you will see this taboo my I mean um the
792. 33:16one girl one lady when we were
793. 33:19collecting the data with a questionnaire
794. 33:21she said that when she got married and
795. 33:23I'm telling you this is about lower
796. 33:24middle class lower middle class are not
797. 33:28very rich not very poor also so she said
798. 33:30when I got married uh they used to stay
799. 33:33in a small house and she told her
800. 33:35husband that uh please get me a pack of
801. 33:38uh napkins he said what is it I don't
802. 33:42know M she
803. 33:44said women they menstruate and I I've
804. 33:48never seen my sister or my mother asking
805. 33:50for it so in that kind of an urban
806. 33:53scenario can you imagine what kind of a
807. 33:56work to love has to do now
808. 33:59okay how great are suti and N yeah right
809. 34:02the energy is so good I know yeah they
810. 34:06were a blast it was you know I I always
811. 34:08find it fascinating when we talk to
812. 34:10people from all over the world how
813. 34:12menstration it it is it is so
814. 34:15um depending on the culture depending on
815. 34:17the religion depending on the geography
816. 34:19it's seen through so many different
817. 34:20lenses exactly and it's it's biology
818. 34:25it's going to happen so how are we going
819. 34:27to
820. 34:28right just like going to the bathroom
821. 34:30know like 50% of the population has this
822. 34:34you know situation happened to them so
823. 34:36it's like that's
824. 34:37right yeah yeah well I mean again hats
825. 34:40off to suab I mean they are the
826. 34:44uh
827. 34:45yeah um they're they're the superpower
828. 34:48over there making happen you know sure
829. 34:50respect to toilets and and making this a
830. 34:53big Focus you know and yeah I remember
831. 34:55when we first met Kumar in afca that was
832. 34:58his thing that he from the very
833. 35:00beginning that was what he really wanted
834. 35:01to focus on going forward cuz I think
835. 35:04that you know they see it on a much
836. 35:06different level than you and I do here
837. 35:08but yeah so it's so great to see that
838. 35:10they're making that effort and um
839. 35:12they've been recognized and they will
840. 35:14continue to be recognized worldwide for
841. 35:16their work so it seems like we've had
842. 35:17everybody else from suab on the show
843. 35:19except for Kumar oh he's coming he said
844. 35:23he's do Kumar yeah so cool hanging out
845. 35:26with him and burger and those
846. 35:28and just very cool very down to earth
847. 35:30people and yeah I think we've been this
848. 35:33close having him on the show he's
849. 35:35actually going to fly in and be here in
850. 35:37person you know but then you know
851. 35:38situations happen and obviously again
852. 35:41condolences to his late father that U
853. 35:45the founder of sulab uh but uh he's you
854. 35:47know taken I think he's um you know it's
855. 35:50been a high stress situation but he's
856. 35:51able to kind of keep that keep the ball
857. 35:53rolling and um yeah they continue to do
858. 35:56amazing things and they the yeah it's uh
859. 35:58he's got amazing people that's why such
860. 36:01an amazing organization we're excited to
861. 36:03be partners with them and yeah and
862. 36:05you're just great because she's a she's
863. 36:06a night owl so like so a TI difference
864. 36:10it works out you know and then she's
865. 36:12like my day just started like okay so
866. 36:16it's been so fun to get to know them and
867. 36:17just to share their lives and you know
868. 36:19and yeah so those wonderful people yeah
869. 36:22appreciate that so much all right you
870. 36:24guys thank you for joining us and we
871. 36:26will see you next time
872. 36:29thank you for listening to the Zulu
873. 36:30pcast follow us on social media at our
874. 36:33links in the show notes below to learn
875. 36:36more visit our website
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