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Brad Wilcox – Why Marriage is the Key to Saving America | WTP Ep. 5 — Transcript

by We The People with Gates Garcia · 13,946 words · 1,917 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00for 18 to 40-Year-Old women today
0:02conservative women are markedly happier
0:04than their liberal female peers they're
0:06three times more going to be completely
0:08satisfi with their lives probably about
0:10a third of this kind of conservative
0:12happiness premium this idea that
0:14conservatives are more likely to be
0:15happier than liberals about a third of
0:17that Gap can be explained by the fact
0:18that conservatives are more likely to be
0:20married in the first place secondly they
0:22more likely to be happily married in the
0:23second place so those two things
0:25together explain about a third of the
0:27gap between liberals and conservers why
0:29is it that Republicans or conservatives
0:31are more likely to be married and more
0:33likely to be happily married is that
0:34they have some
0:36appreciation for
0:40tradition it's time to stand up for the
0:42truth com for ours stand up for the you
0:47and we know we win because yesu is the
0:49proof the people like G see so that's no
0:52excuse money children love happiness all
0:56the things we are going to discuss on
0:58today's episode and who better to do
1:00that with than Brad Wilcox Brad is
1:03Professor of Sociology at ug where he
1:05directs the national marriage project
1:08and a senior fellow at The Institute for
1:10family studies his research on marriage
1:12and family life has been featured on CBS
1:15NPR National Review the Atlantic the New
1:18York Times The Wall Street Journal The
1:20Washington Post and now we the people
1:23Brad's latest book get married why
1:26Americans must defy the athletes Forge
1:28strong families and say civilization
1:31will be the subject of this episode Brad
1:34thanks for joining us thanks for having
1:35me on Gates so let's get right into it
1:37the the sort of three themes of this
1:39show are Faith Family and Country and I
1:41want to talk about that the nuclear
1:43family is clearly under attack in the
1:45United States of America and marriage is
1:47sort of the lifeblood behind the nuclear
1:49family so talk a little bit about the
1:52the role that marriage plays in society
1:55particular particularly American society
1:57and why that's so important great
1:59question I think a lot of Americans kind
2:01of think about marriage and family as
2:03kind of just private things it's like
2:04just between you and you know your
2:06partner or you and your spouse you
2:08know um and yet what we know from the
2:11data actually and from the research is
2:13that what happens in your family what
2:15happens in our families matters not just
2:17for you but for your neighborhoods and
2:19for your communities and for the country
2:21as a whole and so what we're seeing for
2:23instance is that this is work done by
2:25Raj chedy is that you know he finds it
2:27kind of the number one predictor of
2:29Mobility for poor kids that means kind
2:32of rags to riches story so what he finds
2:34is that in communities across the the
2:37country kids who are born poor are way
2:40more likely to rise into affluence as
2:42adults if they're living communities
2:44where there are lots of two parent
2:46families and in fact that's kind of the
2:48number one factor that he finds we also
2:50see in some new work done in Chicago
2:53that there's been a decline in happiness
2:54across the country and again the the
2:57number one factor there is the fact that
2:59fewer americ
3:00are now married than was true you know a
3:03couple of decades ago so these are kind
3:04of just two examples of the way in which
3:06you think about you know both kind of
3:09the sort of the character of the
3:11American dream and American's ability to
3:14realize that classic American Pursuit
3:16the pursuit of happiness you know when
3:18the family is strong more people are
3:20able to kind of you know do well both
3:22economically and emotionally when the
3:25family is weaker Americans are more
3:27likely to be struggling yeah and a good
3:29intro cuz we're going to talk about sort
3:30of a lot of the things that you just
3:31mentioned uh you know happiness and the
3:34success of of the rising generation
3:36unfortunately Elites don't want us to
3:39believe any of the statistics or things
3:41that you just said and that we're going
3:42to read off in a minute you know whether
3:44it's the media or congress you'll hear
3:46you'll hear about failing schools or the
3:48economy or uh Government funding of
3:51programs but you never hear about
3:53marriage as a lever to pull to fix some
3:56of society's ills so and and we we know
4:01that like you just mentioned
4:02particularly in poor communities these
4:03are areas where marriage can have a
4:05tremendous influence on the success or
4:06failure of those those communities why
4:10do you think the elites want us to
4:12ignore this yes I think the the
4:14challenge here and it is striking I
4:16think how many of our Elites basically
4:17Gates they they talk left in public and
4:20then they walk right in in private right
4:23so I mean there's probably like just you
4:25know a million School superintendents
4:28you know who would kind of talk you know
4:30very in a very Progressive Way in public
4:32but then you kind of follow them back to
4:34their home and they're stably married
4:35and they're two or three kids you know
4:36have the benefit you know I talked to
4:38about you know Reed Hastings at at
4:40Netflix you know in his own his own kind
4:43of autobiography kind of talks about how
4:45his wife were struggling over some kind
4:46of issue related to travel for him and
4:48his work and and then they went to to a
4:50therapist and they talked the issue
4:52through and they came to some kind of
4:53agreement and they've been stably
4:55married for more than 30 years given
4:57their kids the benefit of a stable you
4:58know marriage for for their two kids and
5:01you know a lot of the stuff on Netflix
5:03is obviously not very kind of marriage
5:05and family friendly so again kind of
5:07here you have kind of a a California
5:09media executive often kind of talking
5:11left but then living right in private
5:14and that's you know that's a cause for
5:17concern uh because they kind of have
5:19such a central role in shaping our our
5:22common culture today and in terms of
5:25understanding why that's the case you
5:26know to your question I think you know
5:30for Elites there's kind of this desire
5:31to be to be seen as Progressive and to
5:35kind of think of themselves as
5:37Progressive and so their kind of
5:39Temptation is to think that every new
5:42kind of fashion that comes down the
5:43family Pike that comes down the
5:46relationship Pike kind of needs to be
5:48you know baptized and and
5:50affirmed um and so they're reluctant to
5:53kind of you know prioritize marriage but
5:57I think there just kind of a personal
5:58damic too I think because we have seen
6:00so much family instability in the last
6:02you know 50 years or so everyone's got a
6:05brother or a mother or a friend you know
6:07who's got some kind of complicated
6:08family situation and so it's kind of an
6:11understandable desire to kind of
6:13minimize the importance of marriage in
6:15this newer world that we're living in
6:17but again I think what they don't
6:18appreciate is that we've got to kind of
6:20just push through here I mean for the
6:21sake of our kids and for our country we
6:23want to give them kind of sense more
6:26than what we've kind of seen in our own
6:29adult lives and that more is about kind
6:32of strengthening marriage and giving a
6:33shot at at forging a strong and stable
6:36family you know it's funny because uh
6:39Americans are so divided on most things
6:42I would say if we can agree probably on
6:45one thing we all want to be happy I mean
6:48it if you ask 99 out of 100 people you
6:51100 people 99 are going to say they want
6:52to be happy I would think if not a 100
6:54if you have happy flu if you have happy
6:57humans they will flourish and if
6:59flourishing Human Society will flourish
7:01yet um the media would have you believe
7:03that happiness comes from work from
7:05money from Freedom not certainly not
7:07from Marriage I want to read the title
7:08of a couple articles the Atlantic had an
7:10article called the case against marriage
7:13time had an article having it all
7:14without having children the New York
7:16Times divorce can be a radical Act of
7:19self-love these are all wonderful
7:20examples from your book that you point
7:22out I will also mention that those are
7:23all leftist Outlets um but shocker
7:27they're wrong marriage does lead to
7:28happiness we're social animals as the
7:31data points out in your book 60% of
7:33married mothers say they are happy most
7:35of the time it's only 36% for single and
7:38S single and and women with no children
7:4175% of married individuals say they are
7:43completely satisfied with their life
7:45it's 54% for the other party what's
7:48going on here is is being married the
7:51best predictor of happiness and why
7:53doesn't the media want us to know this
7:56yeah no I think it is kind of striking
7:58there is a way in which they're invested
8:00what I call kind of like the minus
8:01mindset kind of again this idea that's
8:03life is about you know education money
8:05work kind of building your own brand you
8:08in the in the book you say um uh eulogy
8:11values versus rese values yeah rese
8:13values kind of I think are a prioritized
8:16by a lot of folks in the media rather
8:17than kind of these UL eulogy values or
8:19eulogy virtues um so I think um you know
8:24it's probably to too because the folks
8:26who are kind of in the media you know
8:27are often the kinds of folks who did
8:29really well in school and they've kind
8:31of just been conditioned to think that
8:32you know in their world that you know
8:34education and work are where it's at but
8:37this kind of view has kind of spread
8:38more broadly you can see in Pew polling
8:40you know about 70% of Americans think
8:43that you know the job is the path to
8:45fulfillment compared to only about
8:4725% who would kind of think about
8:50marriage or Parenthood as kind of the
8:51primary path to fulfillment so that
8:53that's kind of what we're seeing in the
8:55culture especially in more Elite
8:56precincts but what they don't understand
8:58is that when it comes to kind of predict
9:00your ordinary happiness for women and
9:02men across the US that yes education and
9:05work and money are all predictive of
9:07happiness but simply being married is a
9:09better predictor of happiness than those
9:11kinds of more you know uh resume you
9:15know values if you will and nothing in
9:18the data that I look at compares to kind
9:21of the quality of your marriage so what
9:24I mean by that is when I kind of throw
9:25in lots of different variables into a
9:27statistical model Gates what I see is
9:30that yes regular Church going frequent
9:33sexual you know activity um self-rated
9:36Health money all these things you know
9:38they all kind of predict happiness in
9:39ways that we'd all kind of I think you
9:41know understand and appreciate but again
9:43nothing in our models predicts happiness
9:46like a high quality marriage so it just
9:49kind of was a reminder as you were
9:51saying that you know Aristotle taught us
9:52we're social animals and so you know the
9:55degree on our wall the money in our bank
9:57account these things yeah they matter to
9:58some important extent but they're not
10:00nearly as important as the quality of
10:02our social ties with friends and
10:04especially with family and and marriage
10:06is kind of the most important
10:08relationship you know that most of us
10:09have so that's the story something that
10:11struck me in the book was um you sort of
10:14talk about the honeymoon effect and
10:15everybody's happy and giddy when they're
10:16first married and you know some of that
10:18some of those emotions in some way you
10:20know sort of wear off or they evolve but
10:23the people that stay married there's
10:25sort of this long-term gratification
10:27element to it they actually are the
10:29happiest the further they get into
10:31marriage right well compared to their
10:33peers right so there me again you know
10:35marital happiness can e and flow and I
10:37think most of us do experience kind of
10:38like a honeymoon effect where at the
10:40beginning of married life we're like you
10:42know you know we are we're kind of
10:44reached a new high but I'm just sort of
10:46saying as you kind of look at Americans
10:47across the life course you see that
10:49Americans who are married especially
10:50Americans who are happily married are
10:52just doing a lot better uh than their
10:54fellow Americans and then one of I think
10:56the surprising pieces in the work that
10:57I've done more recently is just to kind
10:59of
11:00also show us that married moms and
11:03married dads kind of in those prime
11:05years aged 18 to 55 are the happiest
11:10Americans and so it's kind of like
11:11putting marriage together with you know
11:13having a family that gives our lives you
11:16know so much meaning and purpose and
11:18then also happiness and of course we all
11:20know that you know as parents things can
11:22be super stressful at times you know
11:24lots of things can go never badly no way
11:27no way I know I know but but but that
11:29overall you know um having the benefit
11:33of like you know reading stories to your
11:36kids or having a snowball fight if you
11:38live up you know in Virginia where I do
11:40or um you know one morning for instance
11:43just kind of give you an example I was
11:44driving my youngest four kids to our
11:46local Catholic school and I was having
11:49some kind of text exchange Voice to Text
11:51exchange with my wife about some
11:52pedestrian issues okay and then at the
11:54end of this you know text exchange my my
11:58youngest son who was n the time pipes up
12:00and says I love you I love you I love
12:04you three times in this text exchange
12:07you know targeting his mom and my wife
12:09is gonna of get in this like very
12:10pedestrian you know and then she sees I
12:12love you I love you I love you and she
12:14knows unfortunately that it's her son
12:17and not her husband saying this because
12:19he's at that point he was extremely
12:21devoted he's still devoted but Le he's a
12:22little bit older now and um so but
12:24that's just kind of an example where
12:25kind of like here's this you know 50
12:27something woman like starting her her
12:28day off and you know and this is what
12:31she gets and it just kind of adds a
12:33certain you know incredibly meaningful
12:36Dimension to her morning that you know
12:38she wouldn't be enjoying if she wasn't a
12:39mom uh I'm laughing because my kids are
12:42younger than yours I get poop emojis
12:44okay uh tons of them and I know it's not
12:46my wife sending them to me although that
12:47wouldn't surprise me either with her
12:49personality and her sense of humor um
12:51and you know with kids comes
12:53responsibility and responsibility sounds
12:55like a negative thing but fulfilling a
12:57responsibility actually brings you you
12:59know a sort of completion fulfillment to
13:01your life it's actually a rewarding
13:02experience we could spend the whole
13:03episode talking about the benefit of
13:05kids um and and that was a joyful answer
13:08and we're going to keep a lot of joy in
13:11this episode because marriage is a
13:12joyful thing but we still have to
13:14address sort of the issues that we're
13:16facing in society it seems like you know
13:18for the last 50 Years everybody knows
13:20that the statistics have been dire on
13:22marriage and and you know the 1970s sort
13:24of as you point out in your book gave
13:25ride gave rise to this individualism
13:28self- Lov self-care you know me before
13:31we um you know marriage is down divorce
13:34is up under one and two adults are are
13:37not married excuse me under one and two
13:39adults are married in the 1960s 75% of
13:42adults were married birth rates have
13:44never been lower in America it's
13:46estimated in your book that seven
13:48million we've we've foregone seven
13:49million babies since the Great Recession
13:52that blew my mind in in 2019 the share
13:54of Prim age adults who do not have
13:56immediate kin exceeded the share of
13:59Americans who are married for the first
14:00time in our nation's history they're
14:02called be branches how did we get here
14:06Brad so I think um there are a couple of
14:09different points I would make one is
14:11that I think youut tou on this kind of
14:13individualism has become much more
14:14saling in our culture since the 1970s
14:17Tom Wolf talked about the 70s being kind
14:19of like the M decade that's sort of I
14:21think part of the story um another part
14:24of the story too is that we're living in
14:27a more secular society compared comped
14:29to you know 60 or 70 years ago and so
14:33religion's obviously often a powerful
14:35driver of people kind of having a
14:36stronger orientation towards marriage
14:38and family that's part of the story um I
14:41think it's also the case too that kind
14:42of the government in the 60s and 70s
14:44kind of took steps really unwittingly to
14:47kind of displace you know men as as
14:50Breadwinners and as husbands and fathers
14:52in the home as well and so that's I
14:54think part of the story um I would also
14:57add too that you know in the last few
15:00decades a lot of boys and young men have
15:03been kind of floundering especially
15:04those who don't have college degrees and
15:07so kind of they're less likely to be
15:09stably employed what I what I see in my
15:11book is about one in four you know Prime
15:13AG men who don't have a college degree
15:15are not working full-time and that
15:17matters because women are even today
15:19much more likely to marry guys who have
15:20a a full-time job and they're more
15:22likely to stay married to them as well
15:24so kind of the shifting fortunes of men
15:27growing individualism secularization
15:28these are all factors that are in play
15:30and I think today kind of one of the
15:32other big things we're seeing is that
15:35kind of the rise of you know smartphones
15:38and kind of screen culture be it gaming
15:41or pornography or social media has
15:44really kind of degraded our ability to
15:47be together um has degraded our capacity
15:49to kind of have strong social skills and
15:52also kind of diminished our motivation
15:54to sort of date mate marry and have
15:57children as well so it's kind of a newer
15:58technological challenge facing us that
16:01um has only kind of I think deepened the
16:03challenge but I do want to make you know
16:05be clear here it's not all bad news I
16:08think you know sort of the the Silver
16:10Lining and the kind of you know Trends
16:12we're talking about today is
16:15that the kinds of people now who are
16:18having kids um tend to be more likely to
16:24forge strong and stable families talk
16:27about that more in a second but just
16:28kind of just give give your kind of
16:29listeners the the sense that there is a
16:32silver lining here and that is that
16:34we're seeing a slight uptick now and the
16:35share of kids are being raised and
16:37stable married families well that's good
16:39but going back to social media and
16:42Technology I mean it's so much easier
16:44now to have a relationship with right a
16:47piece of technology in your pocket than
16:48it is with another human being you know
16:50the the marketing of social media you
16:53know we're more connected than we've
16:54ever been and by the way I'm I'm a user
16:55of social media it's a great way to keep
16:58in touch with family and and friends
16:59across the country that I don't get to
17:00interact with on a daily basis we get to
17:02see pictures of each other's kids um but
17:05you know I'm I'm coming up on 40 years
17:08old I'm not 18 I'm not 22 and use it
17:11very differently than probably some of
17:12those others do and now you see
17:13commercials every day of people actually
17:16interacting with technology and in
17:17there's a commercial out right now where
17:19a man introduces his chatbot to his wife
17:22it's just it's it's absurd and and
17:26really frightening it absolutely the
17:28whole chap that's I mean the the rise of
17:29kind of the chat Bots and robots is
17:31going to make all the challenges we're
17:33talking about that much greater yeah
17:36whereas connected as ever but at the
17:37same time we're as disconnected as ever
17:39in person y I love the middle of your
17:41book you go through the myths of
17:44marriage that that's that's just one
17:46thing I love about your book in general
17:47you sort of present your case but you
17:49take all the other cases around it that
17:50are sort of would be debating against
17:52you in the room you actually allow them
17:53space in your book but you do a very uh
17:55colorful clever uh interesting way of
17:58kind of defeating them and so your myths
18:00of marriage are the Flying Solo myth uh
18:02marriage is of no benefit the family
18:04diversity myth love money you know not
18:06marriage make a make a family um and the
18:09soulmate myth love for as long as it
18:10makes me happy right maybe choose one of
18:14those myths and and elaborate on it so
18:17let's just talk for instance about kind
18:19of the the soulmate myth um and I've
18:22been teaching about this in my big
18:23family class at UVA in the last week or
18:25so so it's kind of top of mine but um
18:28there's a a book um that became a movie
18:31that got a lot of attention and that
18:33book is Eat Pray Love by Liz Gilbert and
18:36it's a it's a well-written book um it's
18:39an evocative book you know um but it's a
18:42book where she kind of basically
18:43Chronicles how she kind of you know left
18:47her first husband um because she wasn't
18:50kind of ready to become a mom she kind
18:52of talks about kind of lying in her big
18:53suburan home and outside of New York
18:55City one you know middle of the night
18:57session and she's crying and you know
18:59just you know kind of upset because
19:02she's not ready to become a mom and so
19:03she leaves her first
19:05husband um and then she has you know a
19:08relationship with some guy in I think in
19:10New York um and then decides to go to
19:12first to Italy and then to India and
19:15then to Indonesia on this sort of you
19:17know eating praying you know loving you
19:20know sort of quest and when she gets to
19:23to Bali in Indonesia she meets this guy
19:26who's from you know who's from Brazil
19:28and he's a good cook and you know he's a
19:30good lover and he's a feminist and he's
19:33kind of like checks all the boxes and
19:34she kind of like talks about how like
19:36there's just you know incredible kind of
19:38romantic relationship that she forges
19:40with this guy and like he's like the
19:43perfect
19:44soulmate sounds great right and a lot of
19:47people bought the book and you know and
19:48and and took in that message um I I
19:51think kind of hookline and sinker but
19:53what we learn later on 10 years later in
19:57fact is that she leaves this guy for a
20:00new soulmate and so we kind of can see
20:03here that people kind of think about
20:05love and marriage in terms of just a
20:07soulmate just kind of by that I mean
20:10kind of they have this sense that that
20:11love is about kind of an intense
20:13romantic or emotional connection with
20:14someone else who's going to complete me
20:17and with whom there's going to be very
20:18little friction we're going to have this
20:19almost seamless relationship um and it's
20:22about kind of just like this this
20:23feeling between the you know the two of
20:24us so people have kind of like this more
20:26I would say thinner and romanticized
20:28view of marriage and family are number
20:31one you know not surprisingly more
20:34likely to end up getting divorced
20:36because kind of making just feelings the
20:38foundation of your marriage is a flimsy
20:40Foundation that's one of the points I
20:42make in kind of this discussion of the
20:44myth of the soulmate but I think even
20:46more interesting kind ofly than that
20:49because I don't think anyone kind of
20:50really thinks deeply about it would sort
20:52of be surprised to learn that people
20:53kind of embrace this more romantic you
20:56know or more Soul Many view would would
20:57have a
20:59higher risk of divorce it's also the
21:02case too that you know in her book Liz
21:05Gilbert kind of articula that she was
21:07kind of pursuing happiness directly that
21:09she was kind of always seeking to be
21:11happy in her life and she saw her kind
21:14of love you know through that prism as
21:16well so I think people are kind of like
21:18looking for their marriage to make them
21:21feel good all the time it's kind of like
21:23perfect soulmates are also you know
21:25paradoxically more likely to be unhappy
21:28because kind of like the direct Pursuit
21:30of Happiness in marriage or the direct
21:31pursuit of like good feelings in
21:33marriage is kind of a Fool's erand as
21:35the point that I makeing the book and by
21:37contrast trying to be a good husband be
21:41a good wife to kind of and to sort of
21:43paraphrase you know St Thomas aquinus to
21:46kind of recognize the whole point of
21:48love is to kind of pursue the good of
21:51the other and then once you have kids of
21:53the others is actually and
21:57paradoxically a deep ER and kind of more
21:59reliable uh grounding for happiness and
22:01so the point here is that people who
22:03kind of do things well and do things for
22:07others often tend to be happier and
22:10that's certainly true also in marriage
22:11so kind of just being a good spouse
22:12being a good parent and then trying to
22:14serve your wife serve your husband serve
22:17your kids I reasonably you know not not
22:20slavishly um is what we see kind of um
22:24as the path and I I did a piece you know
22:26separately for instance kind of looking
22:28at the imp Act of kind of embracing
22:30generosity in marriage and found that uh
22:32both recipients of generosity in their
22:34marriages but interesting even more so
22:37folks who were trying to be generous in
22:39their marriages for both it's true for
22:40both wives and for husbands um were
22:43remarkedly happier in their marriages so
22:44again I think this is a kind of
22:47understanding of love again through kind
22:49of like the lens of of St Thomas aquinus
22:51that is completely lost to someone like
22:55like Liz gilbertt and as of last report
22:57anyways she's my age you know last I
23:00heard she was kind of a single person
23:02you know so it's like again you don't
23:03quite get it if you're kind of
23:05approaching love and marriage and life
23:08in this way it's not really a durable
23:10way to to build a good life it's a very
23:12transactional approach and in effect
23:15yeah I think so yeah and the media is to
23:17blame for much of this I mean 30 minute
23:19episode after 30 minute episode of The
23:20Bachelor or whatever it may be I also
23:22songs too I mean like you know there
23:24there are like so many obviously
23:25probably songs that we saw like on You
23:27Know music video listen to kind of
23:29coming up um although of course I mean
23:32the the tragedy today is that sometimes
23:33like those more like soulmate songs are
23:35actually pretty good compared to the
23:37other stuff that's now on off right but
23:39yeah but even again the point is people
23:41don't kind of understand that you know
23:44being a good spouse and being a good
23:46parent can be you know really hard and
23:48does require a lot of uh suffering and
23:50sacrifice but you if you kind of lean
23:52into that the rewards are great yeah the
23:55the hardest things in life generally do
23:57produce the the rewards all right so I
24:00specifically on purpose saved your story
24:03for sort of the middle of the episode
24:04rather than come out come out of the
24:06gate with it because there's sort of a a
24:08spoiler alert here Brad Willcox father
24:11of nine happily married thriving
24:16marriage this great Professor I mean I
24:19just see stars and twinkles coming
24:21around your head my wife would be
24:23laughing if she was sitting right here
24:24you know my kids would be rolling their
24:26eyes sitting right you know marriage
24:29expert sitting across from me MH did was
24:32not raised by a married couple of 50
24:35years when you were three years old your
24:37dad died correct so Brad right give me
24:40your story how do you go from there to
24:42where you are now you you're sort of you
24:44sort of took the path that you say leads
24:46everyone else down
24:48destruction yeah so it's although it's
24:51important too I mean one of the points
24:52that I make in my book is is to kind of
24:54just you know acknowledge that there are
24:55plenty of folks who' kind of you know
24:57done well in spite of the fact that you
24:59know they came from kind of and to be
25:01clear that is why I'm asking you this
25:03because it's not all doom and gloom
25:05there are other ways out I tell us story
25:07we know like you know you know there are
25:09plenty of folks um you know who kind of
25:12came from difficult situations but have
25:13done well for themselves I mean you know
25:16Barack Obama you know Steve Jobs um you
25:20know all these folks kind of you know
25:22have have done well even though they may
25:24have had some kind of family instability
25:26growing up um so yeah so I my mom got
25:30married uh in the late 60s and then had
25:32me and my sister um and then my dad got
25:35cancer and died um this course was day
25:37and age when you know oncology was much
25:39less effective back then than it is now
25:42um when I was three years old and my mom
25:45never
25:46remarried um and I think you know as a
25:48young person like particularly like
25:50around five or six I was you know pretty
25:52upset um I can remember for instance I
25:54mentioned this in the book like I was at
25:55summer camp in Connecticut and you know
25:58one day I just took my you know my metal
26:00uh lunchbox and I threw it across the
26:02dining room and thankfully it didn't hit
26:04anyone but I was just like I was
26:05literally not not a happy camper right I
26:08mean you know at that moment in my life
26:10um but you know I and I I kind of didn't
26:13do all that well in school until about
26:16probably you know maybe um maybe seventh
26:18or eighth grade um and then I I did have
26:21some great teachers um at a school in
26:24Connecticut um and particularly like
26:26kind of in the English History domain
26:28and then I went to deerfold Academy and
26:30I had some really great teachers there
26:31as well again in English and history and
26:33social studies actually um and so you
26:36know was able to kind of I think
26:38recognize that I had some gifts in terms
26:39of just writing and history and and and
26:43social science um and then I also had
26:45some great teachers you know male kind
26:48of Role Models effectively you know in
26:50in um in school and high school and then
26:53went to UVA as an undergraduate um and
26:56then I had uh two wonderful professors
26:59it's both a freshman or first year we
27:00call it UVA and then it's a fourth year
27:02as a senior UVA who were again kind of
27:04like you know mentors and guys who had
27:07um you know good marriages good
27:10families I was actually Episcopalian at
27:13the time these are both guys who were um
27:15anglicans or pans at the time and you
27:17know kind of you know just helped me
27:19kind of navigate the transition into
27:21adulthood basically in by part I mean in
27:23part through their own um their own
27:26example and their own interest in me as
27:28a student so I I think also kind of my
27:31experience with like strong teachers and
27:34professors is also kind of an example of
27:35the way in which you know boys who are
27:37mentored by you know men when they don't
27:40have a dad you know can really benefit
27:42from that and kind of you know um can
27:45kind of Break Free of some of the the
27:47challenges and problems that can
27:49otherwise uh face kids in these
27:51situations so um that's part of the
27:54story I also would say too that my mom's
27:56parents um you know were
27:58um married um you know more than 50
28:01years before my grandfather you know
28:03passed and you know just great marriage
28:07um he was an Episcopal priest and you
28:10know um and then Episcopal Bishop um so
28:14just you know good folks good example
28:16and that was really who loved us a great
28:18deal and were there for us and you know
28:21countless summer vacations with my
28:22grandparents and you know Thanksgiving
28:24Christmas all that stuff so you know
28:26having kind of a stronger extended
28:27family and having you know good teachers
28:29and professors were certainly I think
28:32part of the the reason you know why I
28:34was able to kind of you know rise above
28:37um you know some of the challenges of
28:39being raised without your father yeah
28:40the word that I pull out of all that is
28:42community yeah and if we're talking
28:44about marriage that's probably the
28:45ultimate Community but it seems like
28:47that for you was replaced by this
28:48Greater Community and that's important
28:50all right Brad we play a game on this
28:52show these are questions that are
28:54submitted by former guests and our
28:57audience and they're just fun they
28:59humanize our guests I will pull one out
29:01and we both have to answer it
29:04okay you're shaking you're trembling I'm
29:06worried about
29:09this okay favorite vacation spot uh is
29:13of Palms in South Carolina I have been
29:15there okay yeah that's a great spot y m
29:18underrated uh people hear South Carolina
29:21they think of Hilton Head and Charleston
29:23a of Palms is beautiful yeah know it's a
29:25good spot um I'll I'll I'll bring some
29:27sand into the room as well boa Grand
29:28Florida for me it's it's only uh we
29:30record in Tampa as you know you're here
29:33uh it's only an hour and 40 minute drive
29:35but Brad you feel like you flew across
29:37the world um they say the best blood
29:39pressure medication is getting on the
29:41bridge that goes right onto the island
29:43it's just a s it's south of here it's a
29:45seven mile strip of land on the Gulf
29:47Coast of Florida um and it's heaven so
29:50okay all right so I we'll we'll have to
29:52reconvene episode two we'll film it in
29:54one of our spot book of uh all right so
29:56Brad talk about the five pill pill of a
29:58strong marriage um in your book they all
30:01start with C I don't know if that's on
30:02purpose communion children commitment
30:04cash and community so you know one of
30:07the things I wanted to do in the book is
30:08just kind of give people some hope
30:09because there's obviously voices on the
30:11left um you know I talk about in the
30:13book there's a New York Times writer
30:15from Brooklyn always from Brooklyn um
30:17and she talked about how you know
30:19married heterosexual motherhood in
30:21America is a game that no one wins kind
30:23of talking to women and then of course
30:25you know that nowadays on the right
30:26we've got Andrew Tate is kind of tell
30:28young men that there is quote zero
30:30statistical advantage to marriage for
30:32guys and he also claims that most
30:35marriages end in divorce and what I
30:38think this kind of rhetoric from the
30:41left and now from parts of the right
30:43kind of is uh fake news because what we
30:47know is that today in America most
30:48marriages Go the Distance most married
30:51couples do not divorce um and there are
30:54some kind of things you can do to
30:56maximize your odds of having both a
30:58strong and a stable marriage and so the
31:00five C's that I offer in the book are
31:02kind of in the spirit of giving people
31:03some sense of what what can I do what
31:05should I do to have a strong and stable
31:09marriage and so the first C is about
31:11communion kind of recognizing the
31:12importance of maintaining that that
31:15emotional connection so I'm not kind of
31:16minimizing Thea that romance has its
31:18place in marriage obviously and then
31:20also in terms of commun kind of
31:21fostering sense of we before me and so
31:24on the Romantic side of that communion
31:26story I would kind of just mention like
31:28regular date nights are strongly linked
31:30to higher quality marriages um in our in
31:33our work um and that's they're one of
31:36the the top predictors of maral
31:37Happiness so kind of just making space
31:39in your schedule especially for us
31:41parents you know like we are very
31:44religious about trying to go out at
31:46least one night every weekend you know
31:48that's one night every weekend you and
31:49your wife okay yeah so that it's just an
31:51example like this is a way to kind of
31:52just enjoy something you know away from
31:55the stresses of being a parent and all
31:56that kind of stuff and have that kind of
31:58that time where you're just one-onone so
32:00that's one example I also would say too
32:03in terms of we before me that kind of
32:06understanding like your money um for
32:08instance is um important in terms of
32:12establishing like a a sense of being on
32:15the same team and so I recommend that
32:16couples have shared accounts rather than
32:18separate accounts kind of this idea that
32:20you know you're you're heading together
32:22financially we've got a future together
32:23that's you know Financial in part two
32:25it's an expression of your team oriented
32:27approach to marriage that's an example
32:29too of this you know this this Spirit of
32:30of communion that I think is important
32:33when it comes to children I think the
32:35point there is is again kind of twofold
32:37recognizing that uh yeah kids can be
32:41hard especially at the beginning of um
32:43that transition in Parenthood for
32:45couples but um for people who really
32:48kind of value children um they're more
32:50likely to be uh stably married and for
32:52folks who kind of invest in their kids
32:54and I'm not saying like helicoptering or
32:56snowplowing for them but kind of you
32:58know really kind of spend time with them
32:59do things with them fun things but also
33:02hard things are more likely to be
33:04flourishing in the marriages and what
33:05was striking for me on that score is I
33:06found that um doing chores together as a
33:12family was more predictive of higher
33:15quality marriages than doing fun things
33:17you know like maybe seeing a baseball
33:18game or um going to the beach together
33:20whatever it might be um and that was
33:22kind of a surprise to me because
33:24certainly every Saturday morning is
33:26always kind of a struggle session
33:28at the Willcox household that's that's
33:30when we do our family chores and there's
33:31just a lot of eye rolling you know a lot
33:33of you moaning and groaning Etc you know
33:37and we've had a lot of kids a lot of
33:38Saturday mornings um but it's it's it's
33:41always a struggle but I think that the
33:43upside there is I think kind of doing
33:44productive work together as a family
33:46gives people a sense you know um that
33:49that they've really done something
33:51meaningful um there's something about do
33:54something that's hard and doing it
33:55together that just uh ends up being
33:57important for us and so we've had that
33:59experience even as a family so that's
34:01the the point about children in part
34:02when it comes to Commitment we often see
34:04in the research that kind of nothing
34:06matters uh for a high quality marriage
34:09more than just a strong Mutual
34:10commitment between a husband and wife um
34:15and you know on that score unfortunately
34:17we're kind of seeing more and more
34:18voices and forces that are kind of for
34:20instance undercutting Fidelity and so
34:22obviously one example of that recently
34:24is just like the push for polyamory um
34:26The New York Times ran a big piece just
34:29after my book came out on this book Mo
34:32from another writer in Brooklyn where
34:33she was kind of celebrating her
34:35polyamorous um marriage uh but clearly
34:38kind of just trying to attack that this
34:40idea of fidelity um was kind of and
34:43there was lots of pieces in a lot of
34:45mainstream Outlets unfortunately kind of
34:47celebrating polyamory but then also kind
34:49of just more more broadly we see as
34:52technology and social media are a
34:53challenge too I mean pornography as well
34:55I mean these are all things that kind of
34:56distract us from kind of focusing on our
34:59spouse and honoring our spouse as well
35:02um and so you know one of the things we
35:04see in the research again too is that
35:05people who kind of reach out to or
35:08maintain contact with an exboyfriend or
35:11an ex-girlfriend are more likely to be
35:14unhappily married and I think probably
35:17two more likely to end up getting
35:18divorced as well so just kind of you
35:20know understanding that if you want to
35:21have a strong and stable marriage you've
35:23got to kind of have some you know
35:25barriers um between yourself and
35:27attractive alternatives to your spouse
35:29and to be more prudent about how you
35:31conduct yourself online and in person so
35:33that's kind of the point about
35:34commitment in part um in terms of
35:37cash I mean it's not rocket science to
35:40understand and appreciate that kind of
35:41you know a steady stream of income is
35:43important for families you know today
35:46that's that's pretty clear and having
35:48you know shared assets like a home
35:49together is certainly you know a
35:52stabilizing force in married life as
35:55well but beyond that there's a kind of a
35:57gender story and the gender story is one
35:59that kind of runs against what a lot of
36:00Elites I think want to tell us they want
36:02to say basically like women and men are
36:04the same you know gender is fluid all
36:07you know this newer kinds of of stuff um
36:11doesn't matter who earns you know money
36:12outside the home or who doesn't and what
36:15we see in the in the research is that
36:17when it comes to women and men number
36:20one women are much more likely to marry
36:22a guy who's employed full-time and a guy
36:25who is earning more money than they are
36:27um and that kind of reality is often
36:29discounted in the um you know in in the
36:32press and even in Academia um and it's
36:35also the case too that you know men
36:36don't place the same kind of Premium on
36:39you know potential mates employment as
36:41women do then once folks are married
36:44when they have children women are
36:46happier when their husbands are employed
36:48full-time whereas for men it's you know
36:51wife could be employed full-time
36:52part-time not at all it's not not really
36:54you know a big deal um and then two what
36:56we see is when it comes
36:58to men losing their jobs huge predictor
37:02of divorce their risk of divorce
37:03increases by about 33% whereas when
37:06women lose their jobs no effect on the
37:10risk of divorce so just tells us again
37:12that even in this moment even in this
37:13day like men's stable employment is
37:17important for the you know for the
37:19formation and the sort of quality and
37:20the and the stability of marriage and so
37:23we need to be thinking about you know as
37:25men you know are we kind of approaching
37:27our work kind a um credential way and a
37:29responsible way and you know I've been
37:32you know now unfortunately I've
37:34seen number of friends who've gotten
37:37divorced um and I would say in many if
37:40not every case but in many of those
37:41cases the guys who got divorced were
37:44guys who were not employed on a
37:46full-time basis consistently over the
37:48course of their marriage and they were
37:50often kind of like they just weren't as
37:53sort of focused on kind of like getting
37:56that job done and I think for their
37:58wives you know it it kind of introduced
38:00a certain Financial
38:02insecurity um that made them you know
38:04anxious and you know made them stressed
38:09and that's one of the factors that I
38:11think was implicated in their you know
38:13in their divorce so that's that's the
38:14force to kind of cash recognizing again
38:16that it's especially important that
38:18husbands are employed you know full-time
38:20if at all possible of course there was
38:21always exceptions um the final C is
38:24about community and the point there the
38:26big point there is that birds of a
38:29feather flock
38:32together you are your
38:34friends For Better or For Worse right
38:37and if your friends are not the kind of
38:39people who take their relationship
38:41seriously and of course we can all can
38:42have good single friends right but if
38:44your friends are not the kind of people
38:46who take their relationship seriously
38:48who don't honor their commitments who
38:50don't honor marriage and family um you
38:55know you're way more likely to end up in
38:57divorce court um and so what we know
38:59just empirically is that if your best
39:01friend gets divorced if your big sister
39:03gets divorced you know if your mom gets
39:06divorced you you're just at greater risk
39:07of divorce you know and so um I think we
39:10have to kind of take in that that
39:12reality that knowledge and realize that
39:14it's it's ideal to surround ourselves
39:16with people you know again both single
39:18and married who kind of understand and
39:19appreciate and honor you know the family
39:22and who are kind of trying to be if they
39:24are married good spouses and if they're
39:26parents good parents and if we do that
39:28we're always going to be kind of I think
39:29challenged to you know raise our game as
39:32husbands and and fathers for instance
39:34you and me um and then we're just you
39:37know way less likely to get in any kind
39:39of trouble um of one sort or another and
39:41then also when times you're tough you
39:43know we're more likely have people who
39:44kind of can stand alongside us and kind
39:46of help us to navigate the loss of a job
39:48or you know the um the the parent who
39:53has died or the teenager who's in the
39:55psych ward on a regular basis or you
39:58know um the the uh the baby who's not
40:02you know getting this to sleep at all
40:04you know in in the evening so you know
40:08yes marriage yes parent are challenging
40:10and so having some people you know who
40:11are there for us is is is important and
40:13on the community side too it's just
40:16important to understand and appreciate
40:17and this goes to one of your themes in
40:18your show is that religious couples um
40:22do markedly better than secular couples
40:24in terms of you know a lot of outcomes
40:27and that's them part because they intend
40:29to enjoy communities um that are more
40:31familyfriendly and that gets to my next
40:34question that was a perfect segue but I
40:36I want to just pull a couple things out
40:37of what you just said um marriage is a
40:39team sport and what's so fascinating
40:42about marriage is in the traditional
40:44approach to marriage uh you know you can
40:46know a lot about your spouse or your
40:49girlfriend or boyfriend at the time
40:50before you propose to him or her and
40:51then you propose and then you're married
40:53right you don't really get so so with
40:56through dating you get to sort of try
40:58out what it would be like to spend the
40:59rest of your life together with someone
41:00you don't get to try out being a parent
41:03with your spouse so when my wife and I
41:06had children especially for for the
41:08first child for a daughter I mean it's
41:11like you're being completely
41:12reintroduced to someone because you
41:14don't know them as a parent you don't
41:16know yourself as a parent and it just it
41:18takes what is already a team sport and
41:20just fast tracks it on steroids to make
41:22it even more that way and and again with
41:25a higher sense of responsibility comes a
41:27greater connection with someone else and
41:28when you can share those things it just
41:30sort of compounds the other thing you
41:31talk about in your book that you just
41:33alluded to is this sort of um you call
41:36it barriers but in the book you talk
41:37about having high fences right putting
41:39fences around your yard you know is an
41:41analogy for the higher the fence is the
41:42less you'll be inclined to look over it
41:44and see that the grass might be greener
41:46over there or maybe it's not greener but
41:47you don't even allow yourself to look at
41:49the ex-girlfriend's post on social media
41:52or whatever and then you talk about
41:53tending to your to your yard don't let
41:55weeds grow in your yard keep keep what's
41:57in your yard thriving and healthy and
41:59all that and then the last thing um you
42:02you talked about gender roles and and
42:03the left wants us to think that gender's
42:05fluid and you know masculin masculinity
42:07is bad and feminism is
42:09whatever women the studies in your book
42:12show that women who are married to what
42:15they consider a masculine man are
42:17happier in their marriage we were born
42:19male and female for a reason there's a
42:21reason we complement one another so well
42:24specifically in a marriage and I just
42:26think that's important to mention but
42:28but now I want to sort of come back to
42:29how you ended your last question Faith
42:32the role of faith in marriage right
42:35Church attendance synagogue all those
42:38things they're correlated with happiness
42:40and marriage the more you attend church
42:41as a couple the happier your marriage is
42:44you talk about the three ends when it
42:47comes to Faith Enlighten us on faith and
42:50marriage and what role that plays sure
42:52and of course as we as we talk about
42:53this topic it's important just to
42:54acknowledge as I begin you know the
42:56chapter in the book about faith in
42:57marriage today there's like this like
42:59you know of course well-written
43:02evocative interview in the New Yorker
43:04Magazine with a very smart and talented
43:08uh sociologist Named Sam Perry and sort
43:11of it's about kind of
43:13Evangelical Christian men and families
43:16and kind of the takeaway from this New
43:17Yorker interview is that Christian men
43:20are basically hobbled by guilt um their
43:23wives are upset with them and they're
43:25trying to kind of navigate you know
43:27pornography and in ways that are kind of
43:29archaic and outdated it's kind of it's
43:31all about like kind of like basically
43:33how like in today's world like guys
43:35can't handle pornography and Christian
43:37guys are especially kind of unable to
43:39navigate pornography so if you kind of
43:41just kind of had an impression of
43:43religion and family from this New Yorker
43:45interview you kind of have the sense
43:46it's it's an
43:49obstacle gates to living your best life
43:51and realizing your best love like that
43:53if people were just kind of more
43:53realistic about all this stuff and you
43:55know weren't these kind of religious
43:57Hang-Ups about pornography and sex they
43:59would just be doing much better sort of
44:00like the the takeaway but you know as I
44:03spoke to ordinary couples across the US
44:06sure there actually were some Christian
44:07couples that were struggling with
44:08pornography and that was a big deal for
44:10them and I and I get that it's a real
44:12issue but generally speaking folks who
44:15were religious that I spoke with were
44:17doing better than folks who weren't
44:18religious I profile an African-American
44:20couple outside of DC and you know um he
44:23actually mentioned how like he's very
44:26intentional about kind of handles the
44:27internet to kind of steer clear of all
44:29that stuff um how he meets with his
44:31Pastor on a regular basis to kind of
44:33stay in the straight and narrow path as
44:34as a father and husband his wife also
44:36actually mentioned too that she'd been
44:38sexually abused as a child and it was
44:40only through her faith through the kind
44:42of the power of prayer and her kind of
44:43Christian female friends just kind of
44:45able to navigate that reality and to
44:47kind of enjoy physical intimacy and
44:49marriage because her faith helped her
44:51kind of overcome her initial I think
44:55difficulty with um with sex in in her
44:58marriage um so again kind of a rather
45:01different kind of you know experience
45:03with faith and what the New Yorker would
45:05have led you to believe and then
45:07empirically yes so people who are
45:09regular churchgoers are about 15
45:10percentage points more likely to be very
45:11happy in their marriages they're between
45:1330 and 50% depending upon the data set
45:16less likely to get
45:18divorced those are big numbers those are
45:20big numbers and again running right
45:22against sort of takeaways of this New
45:24Yorker interview um and then I think
45:28again even most ironic you know is that
45:31today there is a growing Gap in sexual
45:35frequency between religious couples and
45:38secular couples and guess what it runs
45:41directly against the sort of implicit
45:44message of the New Yorkers so we're
45:45seeing now for this is all new it's all
45:47just happening in the last decade or so
45:50but in 2000 there was no gap between
45:52sexual frequency for religious couples
45:55and secular couples so if you're
45:56religious or
45:57you know you both had sex kind of at the
45:59same rates on average today though we're
46:01seeing is only a minority and I was
46:03shocked by this both in my data and
46:05what's called The General Social Survey
46:07only a minority of secular couples are
46:11having sex married couples sex at least
46:14once a week it's kind of mind-blowing
46:16right whereas for religious couples it's
46:19about 2third of them are having sex at
46:21least once a week so again there's a gap
46:24in sex between religious and secular
46:26couples today it's in favor of the
46:27religious couples and then of course Doo
46:29not
46:30surprisingly religious couples report
46:32more satisfaction with their sexual
46:34lives than there second couple so I
46:35think this is again this is like you are
46:37not going to get this on you know on
46:39Twitter or Tik Tok generally speaking
46:42not to mention you know any number of
46:44you know TV shows and movies I mean it's
46:46sort of like you know people always
46:48think that kind of like it's the you
46:50know it's the the one night stands or
46:53the you know the people who are kind of
46:55living the life who are who are kind of
46:56really doing well on the sexual front
46:58like no I'm sorry actually it's folks
47:00who are you know married yeah religious
47:03who you know they don't tend to
47:06understand a lot of folks who kind of
47:08talk about or sing about or you know
47:10write about sex that you know it is like
47:13a powerful expression of intimacy and so
47:18in that kind of context like the
47:20ultimate aphrodisiacs are you know
47:23commitment emotional security kind of
47:27um you know knowing that there's a
47:28horizon of you know trust and security
47:31that sort of surrounds your relationship
47:33and so anyways we just sort of see that
47:36um you know religion is linked to a lot
47:40of good outcomes for that's the that's
47:43you know one key kind of observation
47:45Brad I bring up religion and all you
47:46want to talk about is sex so that's fine
47:48we'll stay there we'll stay on sex uh uh
47:51let's let's talk about that I'll say
47:52this since reading your book y I have
47:54been doing a lot more housework M uh you
47:57point out in your book that couples that
47:59do housework together not only have the
48:02most sex but they have the best sex Brad
48:05I've made you call it chore play I've
48:07made more beds and swept more floors in
48:09the last three weeks since reading your
48:10book than I ever have um talk about the
48:13role and the importance of sex in a
48:14marriage so yeah I mean sex is is is
48:18incredibly important uh you know it's
48:20not obviously the only thing but I think
48:22it's um it's it is kind of like a real
48:24expression of intimacy between couples
48:26um I think you know sometimes I think we
48:29can think about sex in ways that I don't
48:34know just sort of like cheapen it
48:36basically and I think I think it's you
48:38know one of the points too that I make
48:40in the book is it's really and of course
48:41there exceptions but it's often more
48:43important for the husband than the wife
48:45um and so um you know it's it can be
48:50also kind of a a sort of a place where
48:52there's some kind of conflict or
48:53struggle or difficulty as well um so
48:56that's that's part of the reality and
48:57too I think with with pornography and
48:59with all that kind of stuff happening
49:00you know in terms of social media you
49:03know it can be a source of of conflict
49:05you know in that sense people are not
49:06sure if their spouse is really focused
49:08on them or is distracted by other things
49:11you know either in their immediate world
49:12or in the electronic world as well so
49:14again I don't want to minimize the way
49:15which in which it can be a challenge for
49:18couples um but you know when sex is
49:22going reasonably well for a couple I
49:23think it's you know it's it's important
49:25it's also linked too to a whole bunch of
49:27outcomes we don't quite know the
49:28mechanisms here but to you know more
49:31physical health better emotional health
49:34um you know and a lot of other things so
49:36just it's kind of it's an important kind
49:37of point of bonding and I think again
49:40our culture often looks at sex I think
49:42through a needlessly superficial lens um
49:47but when you understand sex more in the
49:49context of commitment and
49:51intimacy um you know in marriage it's
49:54it's a beautiful and powerful thing
49:57um religion sex we might as well talk
50:00about politics yeah um y you know
50:02marriage is a political issue you can
50:04politicize anything these days and
50:06policies affect marriage right uh and it
50:08seems like politicians are doing a poor
50:10job around the issue of marriage um
50:13especially in middle and lower class um
50:18communities are politicians failing
50:21families and are they penalizing
50:23marriage yeah so I think what we've seen
50:26is that really in the 60s and 7s a lot
50:28of our welfare programs you know
50:30basically displaced you know men from
50:33the picture um and that was kind of a
50:37bad move and then more recently we're
50:39kind of seeing what's called the
50:40marriage penalties kind of emerged what
50:42that means basically is because of a lot
50:44of means syst of programs and policies
50:45like Medicaid which is you know
50:47basically free health insurance for
50:49lower income families and especially
50:52food stamps as well um a lot of
50:55workingclass couples actually not the
50:57poorest couples working class couples
50:58who have you know income of some stripe
51:01coming in um realize that if they get
51:04married um and Report their joint income
51:07to the government you know they're going
51:09to lose access to things like Medicaid
51:11or food stamps they often if you one or
51:13two kids um I spoke to a couple for
51:15instance in in Virginia and uh she was a
51:18state home mom they had two kids
51:19together he you know he worked um in you
51:23know a small company locally and you
51:25know if they got married and reported
51:29their you know their income um they
51:31would lost access to Medicaid he didn't
51:32get insurance through his employment so
51:35um they weren't married they were
51:36cohabiting um and we see this pattern
51:38over and over again and it's a problem
51:39because cohabitation just not as stable
51:42for families as marriages and so you're
51:44kind of basically you know you're
51:46undercutting the stability of working
51:49class family life in many cases that's
51:51the concern and so a lot of politicians
51:53don't either realize this is a problem
51:54or a challenge or when faced with kind
51:56of the cost of solving this discret
51:59issue it would be costly you know to
52:01kind of do what I think is is a PR which
52:03is just to double the thresholds for a
52:05lot of these programs they're reluctant
52:07to kind of tackle the issue um now there
52:09are ways think we could kind of we could
52:11you know address um costs and other you
52:15know kind of um ways with our means set
52:17of programs let me let me ask you this
52:19is there lwh hanging fruit out there if
52:21you were a politician for if you were
52:23president for a day and could W wand
52:25what would you do so well I'll give you
52:27one example here and by the way this
52:29should be bipartisan the if if there's a
52:32category of politics that that we can
52:34all sort of get behind I think and I
52:35think there are some you know there are
52:36some this moderate Democratic
52:39Congressman in Northern main for
52:40instance who seems very sensible um he
52:43actually has a new proposal on the child
52:45tax credit which gives a married bonus
52:47so that's a new thing too which I I'm
52:49I'm you know I'm a big fan of as well
52:52for the child tax credit so um I think
52:54someone like him would be up for this um
52:57or else too there there are plenty of
52:58disabled Americans you know who are on
53:00SSDI for instance and this is also kind
53:03of an issue that that they will talk
53:04about you know with you know basically
53:06they'd have to drain all their assets
53:08before they could kind of marry someone
53:10um and um so and and I think that would
53:13also have some kind of you know hearing
53:16among Democrats so I'm I'm hoping that
53:18we can deal with the issue but one
53:20example of how in this case JD Vance was
53:23going to deal with this when he was in
53:24the
53:24Senate Maybe ironically but he was going
53:27to kind of pay for uh you know
53:30substantial effort to kind of address
53:32the marriage penalty for working class
53:33families by getting rid of all of the
53:36tax credits for electrical Vehicles so
53:39you know that's the kind of thing
53:40where're again like creative like you
53:42know he kind of can see that's that's a
53:43big ticket item in the federal budget
53:44let's just get rid of that um and we'll
53:46kind of use that money to help address
53:49um you know these palities but there's
53:51also kind of we do see like in the tax
53:53credit and Medicaid other places and
53:55we're seeing I think right now with Elon
53:57Musk um and you know his efforts to kind
53:59of uh make the government more efficient
54:02there's there has been a lot of fraud in
54:04many of our our programs including our
54:06means programs and so I think that would
54:07also be a way to kind of help to pair
54:10down um the cost of these programs as
54:12well and and frankly too because so many
54:15workingclass couples are cohabiting and
54:17receiving the benefits if you just kind
54:18of shift them into the married State you
54:21know for those folks there's not going
54:22to be any increase in spending that's
54:24right um one thing I always always try
54:26to find the opportunity to do on this
54:28show is brag on on conservatives uh we
54:30conservatives are more likely to be
54:32married and we're happier than liberals
54:36right in our marriage I think we're just
54:38happier people in general uh in all
54:40categories but but what's up with that
54:42yeah so I had a piece that um in in my
54:46blog on family studies that came out
54:48last week and it was spotlighted on both
54:50one Fox and Friends in the morning and
54:52the on the fox website and many other
54:54media platforms too and it's just kind
54:56of that for 18 to 40-year old women
54:58today um conservative women are markedly
55:01happier than their liberal female peers
55:04they're three times more not going to be
55:05completely satisfied with their lives
55:07and unfortunately liberal young women
55:09are about twice as not going to be very
55:10unsatisfied with their their lives um I
55:13did another piece of the New York Times
55:14not too long ago kind of just showing
55:15that more generally conservatives were
55:17happier than liberals um and in the in
55:19the book I kind of explain that probably
55:21about a third of this kind of
55:23conservative happiness premium
55:26this idea that conservatives are more
55:27likely to be happy than liberals the Gap
55:30um about a third of that Gap can be
55:32explained by the fact that conservatives
55:34are more likely to be married in the
55:35first place and secondly they're more
55:37likely to be happily married you know um
55:40in in the second place so those two
55:42things together explain about a third of
55:44the gap between liberals and
55:45conservatives there's a similar kind of
55:47pattern when it comes to Republicans and
55:49Democrats um so and I think um does it
55:53go back to some of those other
55:54statistics we were talking about they're
55:55more engag in their church or their
55:57faith yeah so yeah so in terms of
55:59understanding that this Gap um you know
56:01when do this this piece that was
56:03featured in Fox last week what we found
56:05is that gaps in U marriage so a majority
56:08of conservative young women are married
56:10you know only minority of liberal young
56:12women are married a majority of
56:13conservative young women go to church
56:15only a small minority of liberal women
56:17go to church so um differences in in
56:20marriage differences in religious
56:22participation and then differences and
56:24expressed loneliness where factors that
56:27were hugely preductive of this
56:28particular gap for women but that's kind
56:30of the same story more generally and I
56:32think the idea though in terms of why is
56:34it that Republicans or conservatives are
56:36more likely to be married and more
56:38likely to be happily married is that
56:39they have some
56:41appreciation for
56:44tradition tradition and I think we often
56:48in this culture especially our leads
56:49kind of think that tradition is just all
56:51about kind of ignorance and you know
56:54archaic ideas and inequality and
56:57oppression you know you know the the
57:00story right don't appreciate Edmond
57:02Burke's you know idea that tradition is
57:06often kind of the appreciation of wisdom
57:09you know from the past that over time
57:11you know people learn that certain
57:12things are are good for them cultures
57:15tend to kind of often Elevate things so
57:17one example goes back to money and what
57:18we see in the in the research I talked
57:20about in the book is that couples who
57:22have shared checking accounts you know
57:24it's a more traditional way of handling
57:25your money do better on any number of
57:28fronts maritally um people who have
57:30shared last names do better in their
57:31marriages and bolks have got separate
57:33last names so there's just kind of like
57:34some customs Traditions that have
57:36emerged over time that you know not to
57:38mention like you know family holidays
57:40and you know um rituals um that ground
57:45and guide a famil family's lives as well
57:46all these things are are linked on
57:48average to to higher quality families
57:50and higher quality marriages so I think
57:51that's what in part conservatives
57:54understand that tradition has a role to
57:56play play our families and that kind of
57:58especially kind of valuing marriage per
58:00se you know is more common for
58:02conservatives than it is for liberals
58:03and just even vag institution makes you
58:06more motivated to enter into it in the
58:07first place to stay you know have you
58:10sort of stay married you know when
58:11you've got challenges and then to just
58:13kind of invest in your spouse as well
58:14it's in the root of the word conserve I
58:17mean you go all the way back to life
58:18liberty and the pursuit of happiness the
58:19founding of this country I mean we're
58:20trying to conserve these principles in
58:23the conservative movement and marriage
58:24nothing's worth worth more nothing's
58:26more worth conserving than than marriage
58:29all right Brad a couple more questions
58:30and I want to sort of do what we've been
58:32doing sort of building this we we tore
58:34it down we're building it back up
58:36where's the hope and joy what what's the
58:37good news so yeah the good news as I
58:39mentioned before is that I think um you
58:43know number one we are seeing that from
58:47the kids
58:49perspective since about
58:512012 um there's been a growing share of
58:54kids who are being raised in marri
58:56married families and also in stably
58:59married families and you're going to
59:01surprise a lot of people when they hear
59:02this so if you look at kind of the
59:04trends for kids again what you see is it
59:06from like you know the the 40s 50s 60s
59:09you know the vast majority of kids are
59:10in married parent families um and then
59:13there's a huge dip you know through the
59:1560s late 60s 70s 80s 90s you know early
59:18ODS and then it just ticks up in around
59:212012 okay and it's not a huge you know
59:24tick but it's it is kind of striking
59:25that kind of like this idea that the
59:28family is going to get weaker and weaker
59:29and weaker for kids I think we've all
59:31kind of assumed that in some way even
59:33conservatives right and there's you know
59:34there people who kind of are you know
59:37hitting the the bell of negativity on
59:40this particular question and yet again
59:42for folks who are having kids today I
59:43think you know a majority of kids are
59:46born in marriage a majority of kids are
59:48going to be raised by their own married
59:49parents and um that's kind of a newer
59:53development that's encouraging um so
59:55that's the good news and then beyond
59:56that I talk in the book about there are
59:59four groups of Americans who are
1:00:00especially like could be what I call
1:00:03masters of marriage uh folks who are you
1:00:05know getting married typically stably
1:00:08married often more happily married as
1:00:10well and those four groups are Asian
1:00:13Americans religious Americans that call
1:00:15them the faithful in the book college
1:00:17educated Americans that call them
1:00:18Strivers in the book and to be honest
1:00:21with you Gates I thought it would be
1:00:23just those three groups when I started
1:00:24this this work but with my League Dr Wy
1:00:26wi we found there was a fourth factor
1:00:28that predicted marriage and predicted
1:00:31happiness in marriage and that was
1:00:32ideology and so we found again that
1:00:34conservatives were more likely to be
1:00:36married in the first place and then more
1:00:38likely to be happily married as well
1:00:39compared to liberals so a majority of
1:00:42asian-americans a majority of college
1:00:44educated Americans a majority of
1:00:46religious Americans and a majority of
1:00:48conservative Americans are married in
1:00:50that 1855 bracket only a minority
1:00:54of um black and Hispanic Americans less
1:00:57educated Americans uh secular Americans
1:01:00and liberal Americans are are married
1:01:03so what those four groups I think often
1:01:06have is um again there's there are some
1:01:09variations here on what I'm going to say
1:01:11but like um they tend to have husbands
1:01:15who are employed
1:01:16full-time and I think what's brly
1:01:18noteworthy about that Dynamic is that
1:01:20for more liberal college educated
1:01:23couples they're often what I'm saying
1:01:25they're talking left but walking right
1:01:28and what I mean by that in part is that
1:01:29they're more likely to have husbands who
1:01:31are employed full-time than often
1:01:34working-- class and poor couples who
1:01:36often talk
1:01:38right but kind of walk left in terms of
1:01:40their family life right so it's it works
1:01:43both ways but it's just interesting to
1:01:44note that like for a lot of the more
1:01:46liberal minded people talk in a more
1:01:48Progressive Way and the sort of more
1:01:50educated bracket and of course Charles
1:01:51Murray had induct this too as well um
1:01:55when you actually look at kind of the
1:01:57the context of the ordinary life it's
1:01:59often pretty conservative's how they
1:02:01they're living their Liv um and but we
1:02:04do find like religious folks
1:02:05Asian-American folks as well
1:02:09um and I think conservative folks too
1:02:12that you know the Manore lik to be you
1:02:13know employed full-time um but then too
1:02:16I think and again particularly Asians
1:02:18and conservatives and religious couples
1:02:20too often have either implicit or
1:02:22explicit appreciation for you know the
1:02:24value of of tradition the value of
1:02:26commitment in their
1:02:27relationships and and the value
1:02:29especially of marriage you know like
1:02:31there's no group of Americans who are
1:02:33more stably married in the US than
1:02:35immigrants from India you know so they
1:02:37have like you know they're Asian they
1:02:40have this kind of like a very fistic
1:02:42Outlook um so anyways the the bottom
1:02:44line is there are some cultural factors
1:02:46and economic factors that we see that
1:02:48help to explain why these four groups um
1:02:50are more likely to be succeeding at
1:02:52marriage today there's been a clear Vibe
1:02:54shift in sort of on the right uh really
1:02:57coming from the center towards the right
1:02:59around a lot of political issues woke
1:03:01ideology I'm hoping that in listening to
1:03:03some of your answers we are starting to
1:03:06see a Vibe shift or get a Vibe shift
1:03:09sort of in in the marriage uh vertical
1:03:11of society last question uh you conclude
1:03:15your book one thing I I love about your
1:03:17work is that you know there's some great
1:03:20Scholars uh yourself in that category
1:03:24but traditionally a schol
1:03:26identifies problems and the book ends
1:03:29and they sort of pass off the work to
1:03:31the next person to find the solution and
1:03:33that's that's that's kind of how this
1:03:34stuff works however what I like about
1:03:36your work is you often provide solutions
1:03:38to some of the things that some of the
1:03:40issues in society that you diagnose and
1:03:42that's how you end your book you offer
1:03:44five solutions to all of these things uh
1:03:46in your book number one defund college
1:03:48refund vocational education number two
1:03:50boost fam's Financial fortunes number
1:03:53three eliminate marriage penalties
1:03:55number four expand school choice beyond
1:03:57the Strivers and number five promote the
1:03:59success sequence we've talked about most
1:04:02of this throughout the last hour so I
1:04:03want to end with that last one the
1:04:05success sequence it's something that I'm
1:04:07intimately familiar with through Ian
1:04:08Rose work your colleague but maybe for
1:04:10our audience explain to them what the
1:04:12success sequence is and why it's so
1:04:13important so the success sequence is
1:04:15kind of this idea and it kind of comes
1:04:17out of a number of different Scholars
1:04:19and practitioners including Bell sah and
1:04:21Ron huskins at at Brookings actually of
1:04:24all places uh this idea that if you kind
1:04:27of take three steps in your young adult
1:04:28life you get at least a high school
1:04:30degree you work full-time in your 20s
1:04:33and you get married before having
1:04:34children your odds of being poor gates
1:04:36are just 3% so powerful and your odds of
1:04:39being in the middle class you're higher
1:04:4186% and then beyond that we're also
1:04:43seeing some new work done by my
1:04:45colleague Dr Wendy Wang for instance
1:04:47we're seeing in her work that young
1:04:49adults who follow the sequence are in a
1:04:51much better spot emotionally they're
1:04:53much less likely to be distressed
1:04:55emotionally in one way or another and
1:04:58kind of depending upon which factors you
1:05:00look at they're between two and four
1:05:01times more likely to be stably uh
1:05:04married in their 30s you know if they
1:05:06have kids um so um again the idea here
1:05:09is that the success sequence is linked
1:05:11to Greater Financial stability and
1:05:13success to Greater emotional well-being
1:05:16and to Greater family stability these
1:05:18are all hugely important things for
1:05:20obviously our young adults or young
1:05:21women or young men um and so we think we
1:05:23should just be kind of doing more to
1:05:25kind of teach our kids both in Middle
1:05:27School to kind of begin to Prime their
1:05:29their hearts and Minds about the future
1:05:32and then also in high school to kind of
1:05:34give them kind of another kind of
1:05:35reminder that this is important as they
1:05:38as they prepare to kind of leave
1:05:40um their parents nest and either you
1:05:43know going to college or trade school or
1:05:45just right into employment um and then
1:05:47one other kind of piece that's important
1:05:49too I think about the the success
1:05:50sequence is that you know it's been
1:05:53controversial because of the marriage
1:05:54Dimension I mean most folks on the left
1:05:57you know think education and work are
1:05:59important um but I think we have to be
1:06:03realistic though today we have seen as
1:06:05we talked before about the way in which
1:06:06a lot of younger men unfortunately
1:06:09become disconnected from full-time work
1:06:11you know for a variety of reasons um and
1:06:14so I think the success sequence is kind
1:06:16of important to kind of convey to them
1:06:18not just for the marriage piece which is
1:06:19hugely important but also for like kind
1:06:22of the work piece just to kind of remind
1:06:23them look if you work full-time
1:06:26and you're a guy like you're not going
1:06:28to be poor and if you just keep doing
1:06:30that over and over and over again like
1:06:31you're going to generally be promoted
1:06:33and and you know make decent money and
1:06:35whatever you know whatever it is you're
1:06:36doing so um and I don't care if it's
1:06:38like working at Walmart or if it's
1:06:39working as a plumber or you know um you
1:06:42know working in a hedge fund or you know
1:06:46as a school teacher you know it doesn't
1:06:47matter one if you just kind of
1:06:48consistently work and do a good job as a
1:06:50worker you know you're going to be in a
1:06:53much better spot financially
1:06:54unfortunately there are too many adults
1:06:56and I think especially too many young
1:06:57men who haven't quite you know really
1:06:59internalized that idea and acted you
1:07:02know acted in accord with kind of the
1:07:05idea that work matters in a society that
1:07:08you know Scrolls Doom LLY on their phone
1:07:10looking for magic pills for every
1:07:11problem in their life the success
1:07:13sequence kind of seems like a magic pill
1:07:16that's pretty doable and and is right
1:07:17out there for the taking um yeah
1:07:20although I want want be careful right so
1:07:21I think the challenge is that um
1:07:25you know I think most Americans
1:07:28regardless of their their their position
1:07:31or or predicament or their background
1:07:32whatever um you know kind of would
1:07:35acknowledge that again education work
1:07:37and marriage are all good things I think
1:07:38some can feel like it's hard to
1:07:42especally on the marriage front to find
1:07:43someone who's like you know would be a
1:07:45good spouse um and then too I think on
1:07:47the education work front that there are
1:07:48certainly you know I'm sure youer the
1:07:50term you know Ace talking about you know
1:07:52adverse childhood you know experiences
1:07:55you know so kids who've got more Aces
1:07:57you know um are more likely to struggle
1:08:00in school and they're more likely to
1:08:01struggle to hold down a job so we have
1:08:03to be kind of like you know thinking
1:08:04about ways to sort of
1:08:06like you know and actually Florida's
1:08:08doing well in the education front here
1:08:10kind just be aware of the way in which
1:08:12you know public policy matters our
1:08:14institutions matter Civil Society
1:08:16matters terms of helping young adults
1:08:18you know um navigate all this in ways
1:08:21that allow them to get a decent
1:08:23education to get employed you know on a
1:08:25full-time basis and then to get married
1:08:27before having kids but so I'm not sort
1:08:29of saying it's all on like
1:08:31individual but I think it's also the
1:08:33case that the left especially is kind of
1:08:35like has been unwilling unfortunately in
1:08:38the last you know um really 30 years to
1:08:43be honest with our young adults and just
1:08:46tell them the truth that look like life
1:08:49is not irredeemably terrible I mean if
1:08:52you do certain things if you develop the
1:08:55virtu
1:08:56to do certain things that are generally
1:08:58within your grasp you know you can enjoy
1:09:01the American dream um and and we haven't
1:09:04told our our young women young men that
1:09:06that truth and that's that's something
1:09:08that we have to remedy well the book is
1:09:11called get
1:09:12married it's excellent it will help all
1:09:16achieve the American dream I hope my
1:09:18audience goes out gets it reads it
1:09:21shares it Brad thanks for coming Gates
1:09:23thanks for having me we
1:09:26why you quiet it's time to stand up for
1:09:28the truth they coming for our kids so
1:09:30who going to stand up for the Youth and
1:09:32we know we win because Yeshua is the
1:09:34proof we the people like Gat go see us
1:09:37so that's no excuse we no longer scared
1:09:39to preach our values getting l

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