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Bodies, Art, and Tarot with Courtney Alexander — Transcript

by Andrew McGregor · 9,473 words · 1,307 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:02[Music]
0:26you
0:26[Music]
0:29welcome to the hermit's night podcast I
0:32want to first start off by saying big
0:35thank you to all the wonderful people
0:37who are supporting the patreon for this
0:40podcast they are getting some awesome
0:44bonus stuff like special recordings
0:48sneak peeks of artwork and other
0:51projects that I'm working on and they
0:55are helping grow this podcast they are
0:58helping move towards the goal of
1:00providing transcriptions so that deaf
1:02people can take part in these
1:04conversations and they are also helping
1:08support the work that I do running down
1:11guests getting people on the show
1:14coordinating people in different time
1:16zones and on other sides of the planets
1:18and finally they're helping improve the
1:22production value of this podcast by
1:24allowing me to start considering
1:26acquiring better equipment and get away
1:29from some of the janky duct-taped
1:32together process I've been doing for a
1:34long time if you dig the podcast jump
1:37over to patreon calm the hermit's lamp
1:40and pitch in every dollar helps welcome
1:47to another installment of the hermit's
1:49that podcast I am here today with
1:52Courtney Alexander who I met in Portland
1:55last year when I was at the North West
1:57Harrison podium and I got to see some of
2:00her stunning artwork in person for her
2:04deck that she's been working on which is
2:06called the dust to onyx deck it's it's
2:09some amazing stuff and getting to hang
2:11it with Courtney for a bit I thought she
2:14was a fascinating person and so I've
2:15been gunning to get her on the podcast
2:18ever since and she's been busy surviving
2:22hurricanes and finishing up her project
2:25for release so we're catching up now but
2:28for people who might not know who you
2:29are Courtney who are you what's going on
2:32hi everyone I am Courtney Alexander and
2:37I'm a recent graduate of University of
2:40South Florida
2:41so I graduated with my
2:42degree in studio art and so before
2:46becoming this creator and entrepreneur
2:49that I come now I was just as juggling
2:52college art student and you know just
2:57trying to just right after graduation
2:59and then BAM like life happened and Here
3:02I am amazing
3:05uh-huh that's funny how was art school
3:09for you I want I went to art school up
3:10here and I kind of hated it and it kind
3:13of ruined making art for me so I'm
3:15always curious how how people's art
3:17school experiences were I personally
3:20have like nothing but positive things to
3:24say and my experience because when I
3:26began like I wanted to go to school for
3:28advertising because I've been a graphic
3:30designer and working on marketing
3:32throughout my life and so that was what
3:34I was gunning for career-wise I come on
3:37to be a creative director so like I was
3:39like do I want to do the advertising
3:40program or you know what art program
3:43helped me expand my creativity and have
3:45more to offer my clients that was like
3:47my purpose for going art school honestly
3:49and through my journey through the
3:51program I began to like go through this
3:54kind of self-actualization and buy my
3:58identity began to transform and I really
4:02start shutting so many layers of myself
4:04through my art working you know are the
4:07end of it like I realized like wow I am
4:10artist and I have something to say you
4:12know and I love being in this world so
4:15you know it was it definitely ended up
4:18becoming something that I didn't expect
4:20at all but as far as just like on a
4:23day-to-day by the programs that I was at
4:25at University of South Florida it's like
4:27a really great program especially for
4:30those interested in contemporary art so
4:32I had opportunity to go to a lot of
4:35artist talks and I have some professors
4:38who who challenged me and really pushed
4:41me to experiment and to see my art in a
4:44different light and so like yeah like I
4:47think for better or worse that you know
4:49our school can be a valuable experience
4:51because I've heard people like you said
4:52that I haven't had like the most
4:54positive experience in the whole
4:56but it was still very influential for
4:58them as artists you know so either way
5:00you kind of get pushed into the first
5:03room yeah I mean I think that for me the
5:07art school that I ended up at was very
5:09postmodern theory focused at the time
5:13that I was there and I think that if
5:16there had been more space for aesthetic
5:20stuff you know just just making things
5:23because they were cool and beautiful as
5:25well as the idea of you know challenging
5:28concepts and all that stuff I think that
5:30that would have I think that I needed a
5:33blend of that you know and that just
5:34wasn't going on there when I was there
5:36so yeah so so when when you started to
5:42shed these things as you're gone through
5:45making your artwork and going through
5:47this program was there a point at which
5:49you ever started to like engage that as
5:54a process of transformation for yourself
5:57or was the the artwork kind of leading
5:59it and changing you as it went or maybe
6:02some other kind of way I think that it
6:06was a little bit of both I definitely
6:07began to use art as a form of
6:09empowerment for myself and like I began
6:13modeling for art classes because I've
6:14grown up you know on my life as a
6:17five-person lady you know on Friday 330
6:20pounds so like the way that I never gate
6:22the world and people's response to me
6:26became something for me to explore that
6:29was like my starting point where I
6:30really started to try and understand
6:32what concepts I wanted to convey and so
6:34I started doing like mixed-media
6:35installations and paintings and stuff
6:38around that subject and um then also
6:42like I said I started modeling for art
6:44classes and so that whole process of
6:46being so vulnerable like I'm literally
6:47like naked on this platform you know and
6:52you know how it is in art class people
6:53are around you in a big circle there are
6:55no good angles this is not snapchat or
6:57Instagram yeah you don't get to like
7:01softlight it and make things look better
7:03no not at all and so like and if Sony
7:07usually people's response was like me
7:09so much confidence but it had nothing to
7:11do with confidence at the time like I
7:14just knew that I wanted to challenge
7:15myself like I still was going through
7:19the self-loathing I still was very
7:20insecure I just knew that like for
7:23myself putting myself in this new space
7:25and I'm having this new experience would
7:27be beneful beneficial for me because I
7:30knew how I felt when I saw that model
7:32and I thought she was like so beautiful
7:33and it was just like you know this
7:37experience of drawing her and everything
7:39I wanted people to have that experience
7:41with me and so when I began modeling
7:43like looking at myself and seeing
7:47people's the patient's of me help me
7:49embrace the parts of myself that I was
7:51the most judgmental of because to me I
7:54was looking at the artwork cause I'm and
7:55this is actually really beautiful like
7:57my body's beautiful like you know in it
7:59it's not because my body is respectable
8:02in size it's not because I have the
8:03perfect hourglass as Lily but I kind of
8:06like the way that role falls over to
8:07some platform you know or with my
8:12artwork just finally kind of processing
8:15the different experiences that I was
8:17having by you know for my first show
8:20that I ever did was called overload and
8:22so I had this big eight-foot sculpture
8:24that you can walk through and it was
8:26inspired by Marina and Bravo Biggs one
8:29of her pieces she did with her partner
8:30where they stood in the entryway of a
8:34museum nude and people had to like
8:36squeeze past them I couldn't do that on
8:38campus obviously so I just created the
8:42sculpture to kind of mimic that
8:43experience and bring people into a city
8:45that's essentially
8:48fatness as a you know conceptually in
8:51doing videos where like I played with
8:53lard and explore the violence of diet
8:56culture and how the ideas projected
8:59through diet culture were very
9:01detrimental fit model psychologically to
9:03me and I'm pretty sure a lot of other
9:05people sighs who struggle with it right
9:07when you're being told on your life that
9:09you're gonna die that your body is going
9:11to kill you
9:12that doesn't necessarily but it's so
9:15kind of productive to this idea that you
9:17should feel empowered enough to eat
9:18healthier and work out and be happy with
9:21yours
9:22so I was just addressing all of those
9:24things and it was very very healing and
9:26then as I went through the program I
9:28began to start I began studying art
9:31history more and learning about like
9:33West African art and so I started
9:35learning more about my identity as a
9:39black woman and as a black American is
9:42where we've been stripped of so much
9:45identity why's that
9:46like I I have a culture here as a black
9:50American in the US but then there's
9:52always this kind of yearning to know
9:55where you originally came from and just
9:57there's so many complex layers into
10:00navigating history here and so I began
10:04to you know start to process that and I
10:08was inspired by like the women of the
10:10Sunday Society in Sierra Leone and they
10:14have on these masses called the Solway
10:16and the gone day mass and so the so a
10:18mask and their masquerade it's kind of
10:21like the ideal woman and so she's very
10:24demure and you know small face she
10:27represents modesty in you know all of
10:30these ideas about what women should be
10:32and then you have the gun day mass which
10:34is her sister who's kind of like the
10:36antithesis of all that she's been
10:37through a lot in life she's not as
10:40beautiful she's not as refined but the
10:43thing that I love but the thing that I
10:49loved about both concepts is that
10:51they're both like respected as deities
10:53and higher fees and so they're it in
10:58that start to adjust the respectability
11:00that I had unpacked because as I grew up
11:02in a middle-class working middle-class
11:04family and so you know there's these
11:07ideas embedded in you that you know you
11:10have to learn how to you know like all
11:12my life I was hearing like well you want
11:14to be careful you know I want my people
11:16to think this way you don't like people
11:17think that of you and you kind of start
11:19to be pitted against the same people
11:22like that you love like I have family
11:24who have grown up in a different
11:27environment but you know luckily my
11:28parents are able to move us out of
11:31um our small town when I was young but
11:34there my Santa other family members are
11:37still in those town so when people tell
11:39me well you shouldn't act like them it's
11:41kind of pitting me against who they are
11:42when I know they're good people and so
11:45like I started attack though I come head
11:47to head with all that so when I did the
11:49sculptor's it was I named him Debbie and
11:52joy off of the two characters from the
11:55movie Friday
11:56Debbie was like the neighborhood girl
11:58that everybody wanted and she was pretty
11:59and it's smart and stuff and then Joey
12:02was the ex-girlfriend who was loud and
12:04quote/unquote ghetto and irrespective
12:06all but two mean they're both strong
12:09women and they both have their faults
12:12and they both have their powerful traits
12:15that should be respected no matter their
12:17background and so you know that was kind
12:19of helping me unpack my ideas about that
12:23and really just getting read this to all
12:25levels of being for especially for black
12:28women
12:29so I'm sorry I know that was a mouthful
12:31well that's great I mean I think that
12:35it's it's fascinating to try and
12:39understand understand what it means to
12:43step outside of those culturally put on
12:46us mm-hmm ideas you know size proper
12:51behavior you know those kinds of things
12:53right like oh yeah and and and to step
12:56inside of those culturally and posed for
13:00competitions right yeah and you know and
13:04I think that when we when we start to
13:06see those and break those down you know
13:10become something quite different you
13:12know my backgrounds you know obviously
13:16quite different you know I grew up in a
13:18suburban town that was predominantly
13:22white there was almost no people of
13:24color at all and and yet for a variety
13:29of reasons I never never dug it and
13:31never fit in there and so was always
13:34escaping to the city and other places
13:37and you know trying to travel and see
13:39more of the world and more of what was
13:42outside of what was going on you know
13:43and so it
13:44amazing how people can start to change
13:48who they are and then how that impacts
13:51how you feel about yourself ya know yeah
13:57I've seen like that environment and you
14:00know the especially the global world
14:02we're living at it's like it's so much
14:04easier for people to create their
14:06bubbles but then at the same time
14:09there's so much more opportunity and
14:11more necessity not just opportunity but
14:13the necessity for understanding the
14:16different walks of life and the fact
14:18that people navigate into this world
14:20different we can scream we bleed we all
14:22do bleed red but we all don't walk down
14:25the street and have the same experience
14:26and that's important ambassador you know
14:29and social dynamics and systemic issues
14:32are very vital and important to our
14:35evolution culturally and as a society
14:38and especially spiritually when you know
14:41you speak of activism and those who are
14:43advocating for change I think a lot of
14:45times the spiritual discourse is left
14:47out of it and you know globally horribly
14:50transitioning spiritually to be more
14:51accommodating and understanding of the
14:54Martian allows people in the world who
14:56are also like you know going through
14:58these things because if I can so many
15:00groups here at all right well you know
15:02well if you believe in all the goodness
15:04in the lightest efficient matter what
15:05your color or your religion or any of
15:07the back that your background is but
15:09that's not true because you're by your
15:13existence alone is political you know
15:15the my work live through is political
15:19and it comes with so much attached to it
15:21and you cannot separate your artistic
15:23your spiritual your emotional your
15:26professional your relationship
15:28experience nothing is separated from
15:30that you know yeah you just choose to
15:32engage it or you don't what exactly some
15:36of us have an easier time disconnecting
15:39and you have a bigger opportunist
15:42connect more than others some people you
15:44can't get away from it you know forever
15:46yeah so how how does how does this
15:50discourse come into your tarot deck then
15:55it's funny because when I first started
15:57this like
15:57I didn't think of it as like activists
16:00that per se or think of it in terms of
16:02social justice and everything I just
16:03knew at the time that I saw lack of
16:07representation not just in skin color in
16:10regards to people of color not being
16:13represented enough in Tarot
16:14but just being represented with beyond
16:17cultural stereotypes like you know when
16:21there's I can only speak from the black
16:23experience that by every deck dogs
16:26encountering was based on history it was
16:29based on a particular cultural
16:30traditional it--look who me or santhu
16:32Nia or a particular culture but what if
16:36I don't resonate with any of those
16:37things because we are leaving out black
16:39career Falls what about the nerves what
16:41about why trans folks and people who are
16:44living at so many other intersections oh
16:46I just knew that I wanted a dick that
16:49everybody within the Diaspora
16:52could feel included and feel like there
16:55was something in it for them you know
16:57and so that's the point that I started
16:59with and how does that look that's a big
17:02thing and I know actually that's a big
17:04task to take on but then looking back it
17:08really wasn't too difficult in the sense
17:11where like when I started to like look
17:15at just spirituality in general and the
17:18fact that man like you know universal
17:21spirit always looks like whiteness you
17:23know when it comes to African culture
17:26and magic and conjurer and all these
17:28things those things are seen as dark
17:30when you just on a basic idea of color
17:34everything that's pure is white is pasta
17:37with sauce as angels with beautiful
17:39white wings and flowers everywhere and
17:41everything that's evil is dark and red
17:43and you know all things but when you
17:46look at the universe the thing that
17:47encompasses us all is actually dark
17:49matter and sizzle is like you know that
17:54working through that separation so you
17:56know I chose the color black to one not
17:59put actual skin tone into it because as
18:02far as you know blackness in that color
18:05spectrum is such a wide range and to
18:07also have the color black
18:10represent
18:11something universal that isn't just tied
18:15to evilness and mystery but that is
18:17something good that is also powerful
18:19that can that's also inviting and
18:22transformative and have all these same
18:24actresses that whiteness has been able
18:26to carry for so long so I like it yeah
18:32it's very interesting to just to see how
18:37oh there's so many things I want to say
18:40let me try and work number one I think
18:44that it's fascinating how complicated
18:52and sensitive it requires us so you deal
18:55with political issues especially around
18:57representation but how at the same time
19:02kind of really straightforward it can be
19:05if we if we really just sort of engage
19:09right like I'm I'm thinking about you
19:11know what you just said about your
19:12process and you know it sounds like once
19:16you set your intention and you started
19:19to think about it it became apparent
19:22which ways to go you know and kinds of
19:25choices that you could make and having
19:27just completed a deck myself that has a
19:30lot of people of color of it and then
19:32you know having sort of taken that and
19:34shown that to people of color to see how
19:36they felt about it you know the the
19:39simple answer that I took was I'm gonna
19:41depict people as like everybody's gonna
19:46be like people that I've seen or people
19:47that I know you know and so you know
19:50where yours is the one color mine was
19:54was all of those spectrums and all of
19:56those shapes and sizes and so on because
19:59I know those people you know and I know
20:02the way in which they look and are and
20:05how that kind of you know can be art so
20:08it's it's fascinating to me because it
20:10seems like one of the complaints that
20:14people make of it being considerate of
20:16these subjects is that it's too
20:18complicated or it's too difficult or so
20:20on and yet
20:22doesn't sound like that's what you're
20:23saying and it's certainly not what I
20:25experienced when I was making my deck
20:27yeah this I mean honestly the principles
20:31are like very basic you just realize
20:34like okay I am born into this world this
20:38certain perspective and everybody's not
20:40going to have the same perspective but
20:42as a responsible human being that
20:45desires to have positive progress in
20:48this world that means I have to confront
20:50myself and be open to confronting other
20:52people on things that are keeping us
20:54from you know from people keeping people
20:57from being able to authentically live
20:59their lives and I don't you know how
21:01this believe that the world is ever
21:02going to be this paradise of peace
21:04because I even think that the tougher
21:06parts of our world is what makes it what
21:08it is if everything if everything
21:10negative cease to exist to exist we
21:12would be nothing it was not necessarily
21:15about just making this world this
21:18utopian place but it's just more so
21:20about giving people the space especially
21:23now that we have the consciousness to
21:25allow room for people to grow and
21:27develop and the way they want to
21:29especially in Western society where
21:31everything's supposed to be about oh
21:33we're free and oh you know we're
21:35supposed to have all of these you know
21:37privileges to be able to do things that
21:40quote unquote
21:40other quote unquote undeveloped places
21:43and on you know indigenous places don't
21:46give you or whatever like that's not
21:48true at all there's just all of these
21:49expectations and it's like you said it's
21:51easy like much you recognize what it is
21:53it's just a matter of just doing and
21:56your artwork every interaction
21:58confronting the ways in which you
22:00restrict yourself and it is ways in
22:02which you restrict others unjustly and
22:03unfairly and right for me myself I
22:06realized that I was fat phobic because
22:09that was internalized I had homeless
22:12where I realized like I was transphobic
22:15because I'm assist woman living in this
22:18body from that perspective and I wasn't
22:20transphobic in the sense that I've been
22:21like or honor trans trans people it was
22:25just my own ignorance and once I was
22:27able to say you know what like man I'm a
22:29transphobic person because that's been
22:31ingrained in me to see trans people as
22:34less than human so my
22:35even when I'm giving a compliment in
22:37that compliment somehow be humanizes
22:39them how do I then recognize that and
22:43change it but we're such in my fight
22:46mode that when people are confronted
22:48with the isms that they perpetuate is
22:51more easy for them to say well no I'm
22:54not racist no I'm not transphobic or
22:56homophobic or anything there's something
22:58wrong with your perception when intent
23:01matters like inten doesn't matter at all
23:03I can place a bomb in your yard and be
23:06like oh I just wanted to blow up this
23:07tree but if I blow up the whole freaking
23:09house and the property
23:10you stole that's what you're left with
23:12you're left with the description of
23:13everything and so when we start to
23:16approach our ideologies from impacts
23:20rather than just intent and wanting to
23:23hold on to this idea that we're all just
23:24these great perfect than hearted people
23:26then that's when we actually start to
23:29make some progress and it's to me it
23:30just sounds like such a simple concept
23:32but in theory is so difficult because of
23:34all of the restrictions we end up
23:37protective laws we put up in our mind to
23:40keep our world and our bubbles really
23:42safe impenetrable it's so easy to you
23:47know put a put a really loaded
23:49compliment out there you know and you
23:53know I mean one of the things I notice
23:54with my kids I have two girls 8 and 10
23:56you know and I was like oh they're so
24:00beautiful they're so what if I'm like
24:01yeah and fierce and strong and
24:05intelligent and creative and you know
24:08and and those people don't mean negative
24:10things by that and I think that it's
24:12fine in a certain way but it is very
24:19obvious once you start to think about it
24:21the ways in which people selectively
24:24enforce cultural values through the ways
24:28in which they provide praise and
24:30encouragement or you know silence or
24:33negative feedback or whatever it's very
24:36easy to see how they sort of channel
24:39stuff in certain directions and you know
24:41without meaning it you know and and I
24:43think that it as you say it behooves us
24:46all to look inside some of you be like
24:48huh what why did I make that choice over
24:51another choice because you know because
24:53ultimately everything has meaning and
24:55that meaning has many layers of context
24:57and and some of those context was feel
25:01like they are authentic are really maybe
25:06more just unconsidered things that
25:09emerge from us right and I think that
25:11there's a really challenging thing to
25:13consider what does authentic really mean
25:16and what do we what do we actually want
25:19from being authentic or being free what
25:22what actually comes from that I think
25:27that if anything I feel like we find the
25:29most authentic and realizing that
25:31authenticity isn't a static concept it's
25:34not about you being the same all day
25:36every day and I think people feel like
25:39well you know what I've been the same
25:41ever since I was 10 years old but have
25:43you are you really the same what it's
25:47the same how you act is the same but how
25:50you feel and understand the world is it
25:52truly the same are you keeping yourself
25:53from expressing that out of these
25:55preconceived notions and fears you know
25:58and right when you tell yourself like I
26:02remember one but there was a couple
26:04point couple years ago where I was kind
26:06of like going through my transition in
26:08life and just kind of like going through
26:10my you know identity changes and
26:13everything and that's what I said to
26:15myself I was like you know that like I
26:17don't it's not that I don't care about
26:19making money or anything yet I want some
26:21security like am I about that part sure
26:23not about just being a billionaire or
26:26something like that
26:27like I want to live my life as
26:29authentically as possible you know
26:33I can benefit and help the most people
26:35in this world you know and leave
26:37something positive behind and like you
26:40said that authenticity means different
26:45people means different things to
26:46different people
26:47but it will allow authenticity to be a
26:49fluid concept in that because I'm not
26:52the same now that I was three years ago
26:55I'm no less authentic now than I was
26:57then you know yes I think it's really
27:01important to there's a there's a method
27:08of control that I became aware of at a
27:12certain point which was that you know
27:15people would sort of pull out something
27:18from the past and be like oh you know
27:20what you said bubble but at that point
27:22so like you know you you're you're
27:25guilty like I am or you've made these
27:27mistakes or whatever right you know and
27:29I think that we really need to give each
27:31other space to change right space for
27:35that to to allow to change you know I
27:37mean I grew up in a predominantly
27:39working-class environment you know there
27:42were lots of ideas that kind of found
27:43their way into my brain when I was
27:46younger that I had to kind of be like
27:47huh you know I I don't think that that's
27:50true
27:51that's uh my experience you know that's
27:53racist or whatever and if we don't allow
27:56ourselves to sort of let go of that
27:59notion we're never gonna grow in at all
28:01right yeah you know and I think that you
28:04know one of the things that kind of
28:05you're when you just said it reminded me
28:08of was but two years ago I was sitting
28:12in journaling in relationship to some
28:14tarot cards and and I wrote down
28:17something that I've written down a
28:19million times probably right like I
28:22looked it foot through back through
28:23journals I I remember seeing things like
28:25this over and over again and I was like
28:27I need to be free in order to whatever
28:31right like different things
28:32I was like wait wait wait wait wait and
28:35I started thinking about I'm like how am
28:37I not free like what like for whatever
28:40reason in that moment it struck me
28:41differently and I was like how is it
28:44that I'm not actually free right now and
28:46and I realized that I mean you know I'm
28:50not a billionaire I'm not I mean there
28:52are limits but but this sort of there
28:55was this trap where I was living in
28:57relationship to these ideas that I was
29:00trying to move away from or transcend in
29:03one way or another and so after that I
29:06started thinking about it how do i how
29:08do i determine my course not in really
29:12like having done a bunch of work on my
29:14upbringing you haven't done a bunch of
29:16work on on other things how do i how do
29:18i actually embody it for you how do i
29:20actually be break that relational drive
29:25to that old stuff you know because I'm
29:29trying to move away from it still call
29:31on that spectrum in a way that they kind
29:34of had its own limiting function as well
29:36you know yes so so I've been sort of
29:39moving towards this you know this idea
29:41and I can I keep circling back to it
29:43every so often to lick alright what am i
29:46living in relationship to and and do I
29:49want to be living in relationship to
29:51that or do I want to be doing something
29:53else given that I am you know quote
29:56unquote free or at least capable of
29:59making different choices here yeah and I
30:02think that's like a very powerful
30:04realization that comes through because
30:06like you said this soul you know we're
30:08so busy looking at the shackles that we
30:10don't realize that you know they're open
30:13you know you just see the chain but you
30:14don't realize that the brace is a lot
30:16there you know and and it's not what a
30:19double card is really all about and this
30:20is like you know idea yeah those in a
30:25lot of ways we kind of have we're more
30:27about due to our own self limitations
30:31and that's not to say that the
30:33limitations in society aren't real
30:35because people will definitely have more
30:39barriers than others and have to break
30:41past those barriers but you know on just
30:44a personal level and everything there's
30:47still you know some ways where we can
30:51really create our own sense of freedom
30:53and I also think like you know
30:55redefining what freedom looks like like
30:58have a neighbor and you know he always
31:01will you know he looks about feeling
31:05like he wanted to be a billionaire by
31:06the time his parents nothing but he
31:09continued there pretty much working the
31:10same call center for twenty years and as
31:13and it's like you know why he's a very
31:17sweet guy like I love him but it's like
31:19one of those things where when I pay
31:20attention to his speech progress is
31:22always about everything that he's not
31:24capable of doing when I very regularly
31:28remind him of all the ways in which he's
31:29free to actually do what what he does
31:31want to do even if they might take some
31:33adjustment entrance and change and some
31:37discomfort he's not as bound as he has
31:40himself in this box to believe and I
31:42think that happens to a lot of us where
31:44this this sense of freedom we feel is
31:47unattainable and I feel like it's park's
31:48first act realizing who you are as a
31:51person
31:51because everybody isn't coming into this
31:53life to be a millionaire yes I do makes
31:56us believe that that we should all be
31:58trying to attain everybody should want
32:00to be a CEO you don't want to be a
32:02worker you don't want to be on the
32:04production line everybody should be
32:05striving to be an entrepreneur or the
32:07Big Dawg you know when no find out what
32:11you want to bring it to this life first
32:14it can be your art and loving and
32:16healing people
32:17it could be educating like it could just
32:20be like you want to make the world
32:22tiniest dog or something it can be
32:24whatever you feel truly resonates with
32:27your soul and when you start from that
32:28place then you can start studying
32:31realistically attainable goals and it
32:34might not look like you being a
32:35millionaire I may never be a millionaire
32:37but if I lived the life that I wanted to
32:39live doesn't really matter that I didn't
32:41do enough million dollars or if I did it
32:43doing five hundred dollars and might
32:44think of how every month you know and I
32:48think it's you know it's fascinating
32:50there there are readings that I've done
32:52for people where you know they're really
32:56they're like focused on how dissatisfied
32:58they are in this and dieting something
33:02else and you know every so often in that
33:05conversation something emerges and and
33:08you know like the reading says well
33:10that's cool you're really successful
33:12work and you've got this great
33:13relationship and the cards say that
33:16until you have a child you will never
33:18feel satisfied in life or until you
33:20leave North America and go traveling or
33:23you know it's it's been different things
33:24at different times right but there's
33:26this sort of sometimes there's a thing
33:32that we pined for existentially or
33:34artistically or or you know just in our
33:36nature and until we can identify what
33:40that is it's so easy for it to make us
33:42be dissatisfied with everything even
33:44stuff that is good you know but but if
33:49we're expecting that sort of complete
33:51sole fulfillment in every arena of our
33:53life we may make we may or may not find
33:56that we may not all be called to you
33:59know as you say be CEOs or you know be
34:03the next insert famous artists here or
34:05you know whatever right like that the
34:08the world world requires many kinds of
34:11people doing many kinds of things yeah
34:14it's all of us to make the world go
34:15round and there's a little bit of really
34:17notable people in this world who
34:19seemingly didn't do much or or then they
34:22didn't have a grand life during their
34:24time here and they probably didn't even
34:25realize the impact that they left behind
34:27but they still did you know for better
34:30or worse you know so that's why it's
34:32like we I feel like it's I've told
34:35myself consistently to remember to be
34:38fluid and I'm a Virgo so you can imagine
34:41it's always coming up with ideas and
34:44analyzing and breaking things down yeah
34:47sometimes that can put more obstacles in
34:49my way but if I at least remind myself
34:51to just like you know if you like the
34:53water I can move myself around them even
34:55when they come up and not really trying
34:58to shock myself into one way of being
35:00and not one way of being happy you know
35:04and so I'm sorry I just had like a brain
35:07fart hate when that happens we go like I
35:10thought but yeah like he said it just
35:12takes a you know everybody just kind of
35:15looking at themselves and it may not
35:17look the way you want to because I
35:18promise you not even three years ago you
35:21wouldn't tell me that I'm doing what I'm
35:22doing now like when I look back now
35:25I wanted to be respected in my field I
35:28knew I wanted to be a creative and I
35:30knew that I wanted to make positive
35:31impact in the world and I remember when
35:33I was a child I had gone through a lot
35:36of different things you know I have
35:38experienced molestation and I think
35:41experienced you know on bullying and
35:43different things throughout my childhood
35:44and I remembered this time on the bus um
35:48where I had to be in like fourth or
35:51fifth grade because I remember the bus
35:52used to go out to the certain area so
35:54how'd it be elementary school but I
35:56clearly remember just sitting looking
35:57out the window and telling myself I a
35:59party you're gonna help a lot of women
36:01and not just young women your age but
36:04you're gonna have older women too right
36:06that's gonna be something you do and
36:08like thinking back that's kind of crazy
36:11that I was that young and having that
36:12thought so it was probably just spirit
36:14speaking to me at that time but like I
36:17didn't know what that was gonna look
36:19like and as I grew up I embrace that
36:21idea Isolite idolized Oprah like I loved
36:24her and you know she was the first
36:26example to me of especially like a black
36:29woman doing it on such a large scale and
36:31just healing and everything you know no
36:34matter what people think about her
36:35there's still these very impactful
36:36things that she's accomplished in her
36:38life and so I looked up to that and so
36:42um looking at it now is like wow like
36:45I'm actually at that place I used to be
36:48so I was raised in a Christian household
36:49like I remember listening to John Hagee
36:52talk about doing an exorcism on a tarot
36:55reader that is like I can't read that
36:57thought an idea in my mind for a very
36:59long time and look at me now like eating
37:02a tarot deck in this hole and is calling
37:06myself a magical person antastic
37:10yeah so the life happens and these
37:13unexpected ways but I'm just thankful to
37:15UM to myself and to the spirits you know
37:19who've got it to open up and allow life
37:22to unfold and to make this unexpected
37:25unexpected power yeah well and you're
37:31you know your deck is definitely a
37:33magical deck you know I mean I kind of
37:36fussy a bit my tarot decks mostly
37:39I will say I only read tarot to my side
37:41X these days so like the older French
37:43styles and so I'm like not really I'm
37:47rarely inspired to look at new decks
37:49because I'm like a whatever like I've
37:51got a deck it works great
37:52it's your 300 years old it's guys I
37:56don't need anything else right and you
37:59know it's not entirely true but it's but
38:00it's much of my time is focused in that
38:02direction and yet when I saw your deck I
38:06felt like I felt like I was seeing
38:09spirit come through and I felt like I
38:12was seeing this sort of I hope it
38:18doesn't sound cheesy but like this like
38:20a powerful awakening of people in the
38:23deck you know it was very very
38:25interesting to me how alive it was
38:28compared to you know I mean there's
38:30nothing wrong with any decks anybody's
38:32doing but you know a lot of decks I look
38:34at him like in whatever I don't I don't
38:36feel the energy from it you know so yeah
38:40yeah no I completely relate to that
38:42feeling because that's how I was feeling
38:44about some of the other decks to
38:46actually did feature people of color you
38:47know I was looking it wasn't that none
38:49existent it was just that they were
38:51limited and the ones that I did see that
38:54like you say they didn't have that and
38:56you there are some decks that you just
38:59connect with like you said they feel
39:00alive they feel like they have their own
39:02energy no personality and I can
39:04definitely say this that does I it
39:07wasn't something that was like you know
39:09overly planned like I looked at
39:12Inspiration photos I you know that
39:15research and all that stuff even for the
39:17guidebook but every step of the way the
39:19deck the artwork everything became what
39:21it wanted to be even when I tried to use
39:23certain people and drawings like they
39:26look nothing like the reference photos
39:28you know they just became their own
39:31thing and I've had some experiences
39:36where people have channeled you know my
39:38ancestors and guiding spirits and there
39:41was one emotional moment for me where
39:44you know a friend of my channel and she
39:48saw one of the beams and I've seen seen
39:51them in my dreams
39:52she described them to me as because I
39:55was seeing in my dreams as he's very
39:56tall silvery dark silvery figures and
40:02she was channeling and she described it
40:05and it's not like it was in my dream and
40:06I had never told her about these dreams
40:09and so she was saying how they wanted me
40:14to know that this is healing them and
40:16why it was such an emotional moment
40:19because I never thought about that we
40:22talked about ancestors and we talked
40:23about spirit guys and what they're doing
40:25for us but we never think about what our
40:28work here does for them in that their
40:30journey and that their desires and use
40:32haven't ended on the other side and so I
40:36truly believe that on these cards are
40:39depicting and giving physical form to
40:42them and maybe that's why resonates so
40:45deeply because there's something beyond
40:48me that is being put into it but they
40:52have the desire to you know connect
40:55other people to what they need
40:57ancestrally to I mentioned an
41:00introduction of a diet book I talk about
41:01pollen oh well who who's the author of a
41:04book and I want to make sure I get the
41:07main right but I believe it's called
41:09reclaiming our ancestors and uncovering
41:11the indigenous mind and I found this
41:13book when I was in the rare book section
41:15at Powell's when I was in Portland so I
41:17almost feel like this was kind of this
41:19little magical moment where I was led to
41:21this very obscure book and it's like
41:23it's like a grad students thesis of all
41:26beings in this rare book section and she
41:29talks about her journey as a woman of
41:32Irish descent and the importance of
41:35understanding your own cosmology in
41:37regards to your spiritual journey and
41:39how in Western culture a lot of times
41:41we're taught that everything is a
41:43freefall because that's how our society
41:45is and you know we latch onto Eastern
41:50traditions or other indigenous
41:52traditions and those things are
41:54beautiful and they are effective but
41:58they're not always our own and so you
42:01know instead of trying to get away from
42:03those things that belong to us
42:05we should start to explore understand
42:08our history understand where we come
42:10from and start to look to those
42:12traditions even if they don't
42:13immediately resonate because I end of
42:15the day that's what we've inherited and
42:17that's where we'll find our power and
42:19that also addresses the issues of
42:21cultural appropriation and you know the
42:24loss of so many cultures because that's
42:26the back the drawback of this global
42:28society is the eraser that has happened
42:32to so many cultures when people have
42:34decided that they have the right to
42:36ascertain themselves in two spaces by
42:38even myself as a you know black woman
42:40trying to understand different African
42:42traditions come across the continent
42:46I don't insert myself and two cultures
42:49that I have not lived their experience
42:51like yes I'm a black woman but it
42:53doesn't mean that my I have the same
42:54experience as a mother from Senegal and
42:57so I can't go insert myself just because
42:59I resident resonate with their belief
43:01systems and their gods I can just go in
43:03a certain myself and use those things
43:05without thinking about how it is
43:06intrinsically tied into who they are and
43:09I kind of liken it to inheriting your
43:13own Kingdom and I think I speak of it
43:15it's like you inherit your own Kingdom
43:16but you want to play in somebody else's
43:18yard you got some things right here and
43:20you've got some really powerful things
43:22even if it doesn't seem as fun right
43:24like everybody else feels fun to play
43:27with but if you just work with what you
43:29got right here you may be able to draw
43:31something much more powerful and
43:33profound from that rather than trying to
43:35work through everybody else's stuff to
43:37find yourself you're going through
43:39everybody else's stuff to find you when
43:41you're right here for sure I I thought
43:44that when I read her thesis I thought
43:47that was really powerful especially as a
43:49as a white woman to write something like
43:51this and talk about her journey because
43:53we don't get to see that process and
43:54from the other side because we don't
43:57talk a lot about how European indigenous
44:00traditions were also lost with the rise
44:02of Christianity and everything - um it
44:05wasn't just African traditions or
44:08oriental traditions or Commissar Asian
44:11so all of us are essentially suffering
44:14but innocence from this disconnect from
44:18our
44:18our true identities oh yeah yeah I think
44:23that wherever people are gonna go you
44:27know the my experience is the ancestors
44:30are following you yeah you know so like
44:32wherever you are you know even you know
44:35as me you know I'm practicing a
44:37afro-cuban Lukumi right uh you know my
44:41ancestors are there with me and I got a
44:42deal with them and their stuff and
44:46they're in and within their culture and
44:49you know all those pieces right like we
44:51can't we can't we shouldn't try and
44:54escape those pieces by just sort of
44:56jumping somewhere else we need to do
44:58something with them and those ancestors
45:01and their need for you know especially
45:02if they need elevation healing intense
45:05stuff like that on the other side that's
45:07not gonna get diminished by ignoring
45:10them or by you know just jumping
45:13traditions and and trying to like you
45:16know work other ways of working them
45:20because you know often those spirits are
45:23gonna want what they want and our job is
45:25to be like okay we're gonna have a
45:27negotiation here maybe but we're gonna
45:30work something out you know so that they
45:31can get what they need in the ways that
45:33works well for them and and so on right
45:35because yeah that ancestral pieces to me
45:38is so often bypassed by a lot of people
45:42you know they really just wanna like you
45:44know they grew up their crappy parents
45:46crappy grandparents crappy whatever and
45:49you know
45:50fair enough many many of us have half
45:52right in one way or another but but
45:55they're they're all still there which is
45:58the thing that I think is really true
46:01that people aren't comfortable with and
46:03then like you say then they go to other
46:05traditions and go to other ways when
46:07they go trying to avoid where they've
46:09been it's it really becomes problematic
46:11for sure yeah because you can't run from
46:14it it's a part of you I was like trying
46:17to flick off a part of your DNA like you
46:20can't really do that and you'd be there
46:23so you might as well face it by for me
46:25ancestral reverence has been such a
46:28powerful and quite part of my spiritual
46:31growth
46:32in this last year is something more
46:36recent in my life I'm habitable data and
46:38you know having an altar and like being
46:41very intentional and like you know doing
46:44rituals that breathe I'm healing and
46:46rituals that like you know from that
46:49time that I told you like my friend
46:51Channel then I was watching this anime
46:53like total - I love enemy and there was
46:55a particular one wearing this one scene
46:58the people cross over and so it's not
47:03like they just go to heaven or hell
47:04there's this like city that they go to
47:06and they have to earn money to go across
47:09the lake to the other side so they're
47:12pretty much it's almost like a state of
47:14purgatory innocence and they have to
47:17essentially you know because of the way
47:19they lived their life earn more money or
47:21earn more spiritual clout to elevate but
47:24it's like that same idea so you know I
47:27began burning money and I began to just
47:29like literally like you say pray for
47:31their elevation and you know we all have
47:35ancestors that were you know that they
47:39leave the best lives you know left I've
47:41heard some stories on my family sighs
47:43we'll leave it at that yeah oh you know
47:47we kind of have to start by you know
47:50taking responsibility into bringing
47:52healing your life to those areas because
47:54that I feel like that's why there are so
47:57many different strongholds and like when
47:59you hear people's stories amazing like a
48:00person can be adopted never grow up in
48:03the environment of their birth parents
48:05but carry on the traits and the habits
48:07of those people and like they explore
48:09that through science right epigenetics
48:11and all of that inherited trauma and all
48:14of those things that they may not talk
48:15about it in a spiritual sense but it's
48:17still very much connected to spirit that
48:19again even being born and adopted by
48:21another family you can't get away from
48:23the drug addiction you know he can't get
48:26away from like my mom always jokes with
48:28me because I was made raising a blended
48:30family my biological father was killed
48:32when I was younger so you know I was
48:35raised by my mom and my stepfather and
48:37so and I referred to him up to my real
48:39dad and so you know they both are very
48:42very clean people very like me
48:45me freaks like we mopped the floor twice
48:47a day my friends I always like joke
48:52about like Courtney what are you wanna
48:53clean up because it was always super
48:55clean but me I could never ever ever get
48:59it right but my mom will always remind
49:01me she's like you just like your peoples
49:02cuz you your dad mom was like that she
49:04was a hoarder and you know she was clean
49:07but she collected a lot of things and
49:08I'm the I'm just the same way even
49:11though I wasn't raised in an environment
49:13everybody around me is like super like
49:16neat free clean so yeah essentially yeah
49:21all that to say that acknowledging our
49:24ancestors and hooey where we come from
49:26is just essential and vital to our
49:28spiritual health so you you got your
49:36deck done and you got your book done
49:39when when's it come on it I saw some
49:41pictures of some press proofing going on
49:44the other day yeah where is it a day
49:50actually holiday this month so this week
49:54they're not printing so right now they
49:57pretty much print the car it's the first
50:00layer so it's gonna have spot gloss and
50:02foil so there's pretty much two other
50:04layers of printing the cars have to go
50:06through and then the packaging is the
50:09same thing you know spot gloss embossing
50:12and stuff you know so you know I really
50:15wanted to make the packaging a
50:16presentation special like because for me
50:18this is like an art project from start
50:20to finish you know um I wanted people to
50:23receive it and it looked like something
50:25you probably dug up yourself like since
50:28we're like you know not a lot of heavy
50:30branding and all that stuff but just
50:32like the package the car is you know so
50:36they still you know have some work to do
50:38I think that from what my manufacturer
50:43told me they'll pretty much be done by
50:45the end of this month is mainly working
50:47out the shipping because shipping from
50:49overseas takes a while and so she was
50:53saying that it may be here by December
50:55the 7th November oh my uh you know
50:59but beyond shipping my air is like
51:03expensive okay impossible
51:08yeah for certain things it's just not
51:10possible
51:11yeah yeah so you know what I know people
51:15are itching but wait unless somebody by
51:17the write me a check today everybody I'm
51:22in the same boat I'm waiting anxiously
51:24to and lay not just thinking about the
51:27fact that when it gets here I'm pretty
51:29much shot like a thousand in my little
51:34one-bedroom apartment so you know I try
51:36stay as transparent about the process as
51:38possible so people understand the amount
51:40of work and you know just kind of remain
51:44patient because I know everyone's antsy
51:46and everything I am too but also want to
51:49make sure that I do everything right you
51:52know I'm I don't want I don't want to
51:55rush and feel pressure to do anything
51:57that's gonna cause more harm in the long
52:00run so you know I just a transparent
52:04about that you know perfect yeah these
52:07things these things take what they take
52:09you know in terms of time yeah and we're
52:12independent creators you know we don't
52:13have like we didn't start off with a ton
52:16of money and resources like we're doing
52:19this from our living rooms you know
52:20exactly
52:21well even if you do write like you know
52:23I put I submitted my deck completed deck
52:26and book you know till the well on at
52:29the beginning of September and you know
52:32that the plan released is fall of 2018
52:35right like they're not they're not turn
52:37that around in a couple weeks or a month
52:39right that gets it all takes a lot of
52:41time so yeah so where should people come
52:44in and hang out with you where should
52:46people come and follow up on this can
52:48they can they pre-order decks where do
52:50people need to be to to get some of this
52:52majesty right now I do not pre-orders
52:55open and so once the first edition is
52:59sold out I'm pretty much gonna roll into
53:01the second edition and I know there are
53:04some people interested in wholesale so I
53:05do give some information about that that
53:07part I'm still on the backend you know
53:10working on and making sure I got
53:12everything you
53:13not properly but people can go ahead and
53:15start submitting and letting me know
53:17because that's gonna help get that
53:20second print run you know the way I've
53:22done is I you know the first addition I
53:25really wanted to be special you know and
53:28the second addition is going to be
53:29special too but I wanted there to be
53:31certain features and presentation-wise
53:33things that really differentiated this
53:35first position because I I have to give
53:38it up for the people who invested in me
53:40I wasn't a person that no one really
53:41knew anything about I didn't have an
53:44established brand of trust or anything
53:46I'm just an independent artist that
53:48people saw something in and decided to
53:51give their heart and money to see my
53:53dream come to life you know and so I I
53:57just definitely wanted to do something
53:59special so now I want to work towards
54:00that second edition and get that set up
54:03so you know dusta onyx isn't a scene
54:06that just kind of comes and goes you
54:08know sure yeah I want and a staple deck
54:12for people I love it so which website oh
54:16sorry
54:17dust the number two onyx ODU st number
54:22two Oh NYX calm and you can click on the
54:25shop link and it'll take you to where
54:29you can order the deck and there's some
54:30other merchandise in the store as well
54:32go check in it it's really really
54:35stunning okay and if you know me you
54:37know that I'm not like learning around
54:39about everything like yeah this is
54:41definitely worth looking at thanks so
54:44much for making the time to talk to me
54:46today Courtney it has been every bit as
54:48enjoyable as I was expecting to get to
54:50oh thank you I really enjoyed our
54:52conversation you and hope your readers
54:55enjoy some of the things I have to say
54:56they are this awesome yeah all right
54:59thanks goodbye bye bye thank you as
55:05always for listening
55:06I hope you've really enjoyed it a big
55:09thanks to the lovely human beings who
55:12have put some wonderful reviews on
55:14iTunes for the podcast please do
55:17consider supporting the patreon you know
55:20I sound like a PBS ad but seriously even
55:22a dollar helps it all adds up towards
55:24being able to make
55:26all sorts of exciting things happen both
55:28through yourself and for others so head
55:31on over to patreon comm slash the
55:34hermit's lab or use the link in the show
55:36notes part you soon bye bye

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