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Blue Ribbon Committee on the Impact of Online Platforms on Georgia Youth 6.30.26 — Transcript

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32:24Well, good morning. Appreciate everyone
32:27coming out. Um,
32:29we're going to start out. President
32:31Blake would like to give some
32:32information and want to thank Georgia
32:34State for hosting us in the study
32:35committee today. So, President Blake,
32:37we'd love to hear from you.
32:44Good morning everyone and good morning
32:46chairman uh Clifton members of our blue
32:48ribbon uh study committee uh
32:50distinguished speakers attorney general
32:52Carr and guests. I'm just uh we're
32:54delighted uh to have you here uh on
32:57behalf of Georgia State University.
32:58Welcome to the campus. Welcome to
33:00Student Center East. Um, I couldn't be
33:04more uh proud to see this committee
33:06taking up u this uh study on uh the
33:09impact of online platforms uh for our
33:11Georgia youth. This is a topic for me. I
33:14have a 14year-old, so uh it hits home.
33:17So very glad to have you here. Um
33:20Georgia State, we pride ourselves in
33:22being able to I think what we do well is
33:24we just graduate our students. We have
33:27the most students from the state
33:28actually attend here and 80% of our
33:30students 53,000 students uh who graduate
33:33from Georgia State actually come and
33:35they work in the state. So we've always
33:38um you know accepted students from all
33:40backgrounds. We care deeply about uh our
33:42students and how they learn and how um
33:45you know they become active citizens for
33:47for our state. So when I think about um
33:50online platforms, uh we live in a time
33:53when online platforms uh allowing us to
33:56to learn more quickly, access to data,
33:59um the speed in which uh connections and
34:02networks are made are amazing. At the
34:04same time, we got to be concerned about
34:06the health of our students, their
34:08attention. I think it's gone down to
34:10like six or eight seconds uh attention
34:12span. So, when I think about this
34:14committee and all that you're doing to
34:16look at this and for the well-being of
34:18our students, it's just uh again one of
34:20the things that I'm so delighted we're
34:22able to host you here. Um it's hopefully
34:26uh you're all set. We'll make sure that
34:27you this turns out to be a great
34:29meeting. So, thank you again and welcome
34:31to Georgia State and have a great
34:33meeting.
34:35That's
34:41>> Thank you again to Georgia State for
34:42hosting us. Um, so my name is Rob,
34:45Representative Rob Clifton with the
34:46Georgia State House. This is my first
34:48steady committee chairing. So if I mess
34:50up, we're just going to blame it on that
34:51and everyone think will be good. Um,
34:54I've got an intro that I want to go
34:55through, um, kind of talking about the
34:57study committee, where we came from. But
34:58before we do, if it's all right with
34:59everyone, I'm just going to say a prayer
35:01over the day and all the speakers and
35:02everything that's going to be said.
35:04you'll bow your head. Lord God, I thank
35:06you for this day. I thank you for
35:07everything that you've given us, Lord.
35:09How you blessed us. I thank you for the
35:10people in this room, the families they
35:12represent. Lord, I thank you for the
35:13speakers and for the experiences they've
35:15had and seen. Lord, I just pray that you
35:18um put a calming um spirit on this room
35:21that we can hear from everyone and
35:23what's going on. Lord, that you'll guide
35:25us and direct us, that you'll give us
35:26wisdom and discernment, Lord. We love
35:28you. We praise you in Jesus name. Amen.
35:33So, um, I'll just jump into my intro and
35:36we'll get started if that's all right.
35:37Um, so I want to begin by thanking each
35:40of our committee members, the witnesses
35:41who have traveled to be with us today
35:43and the parents, advocates, industry
35:45representatives, members of the public
35:47who have taken an interest in these
35:49issues. Your willingness to participate
35:51in what in what will make this is what
35:54will make this committee successful.
35:56This blue ribbon study committee was
35:58created with one goal in mind. To better
36:00understand how platforms are impacting
36:02Georgia's youth and to identify
36:04practical solutions that help protect
36:05children while preserving the many
36:07positive opportunities technologies can
36:09provide. This committee is not about
36:12pointing fingers or arriving at
36:13predetermined conclusions. It's about
36:15learning. We want to hear from experts,
36:18families, law enforcements, researchers,
36:21technology leaders, and those who with
36:23firsthand experience. We want to
36:25understand where the greatest risks
36:26exist, what is already being done well,
36:30where gaps still remain, and what role,
36:33if any, the state of Georgia can play.
36:36One area of particular concerns is the
36:38way online predators can use these
36:39platforms to groom and manipulate
36:41children. Too often, these interactions
36:44don't remain just online. They lead to
36:46real world meetings, exploitations, and
36:49in some cases some cases, abduction of
36:51children. Parents often believe their
36:53childrens are safe because they're
36:55sitting in a room playing video games. I
36:57want to be clear. Your kid is not alone
37:00when they're playing video games.
37:05The reality is they may be communicating
37:07with adults who have harmful intentions.
37:09We need to better understand how that
37:12happens and what we can do to prevent
37:14that. For me, this issue became personal
37:16several months ago. On my drive home
37:19after crossover day at about 1:00 after
37:22a nice long day, I was um falling asleep
37:25about 30 minutes into the drive and
37:26something just reminded me to, hey, go
37:29listen to this podcast about roadblocks.
37:31It'll really blow your mind. Um about an
37:34hour into that podcast, um I was white
37:36knuckling my steering wheel doing 100
37:38miles an hour down the interstate just
37:40and um I prayed. I said, 'Lord, if this
37:43isn't what you want me to move and chase
37:45after, take this passion away because if
37:46not, I'm going a million miles an hour.
37:49The more I learned, the more convinced I
37:52became that we needed to bring everyone
37:53to the table to better understand this
37:55issue before proposing solutions. That's
37:58why I introduced the resolution to
38:00create this study committee. Over the
38:02coming months, I hope we can have an
38:04honest, respectful, and fact-based
38:05discussion. If there's any if there's
38:08areas where the industry is making
38:09meaningful progress, we want to hear
38:11about that. If there's shortcomings, we
38:14want to understand those as well. Our
38:16responsibility is to gather the facts,
38:18listen carefully, and make
38:19recommendations that help keep children
38:22of Georgia safe.
38:24Thank you again for being here, and I
38:26look forward to hearing from everybody.
38:28Um, I am going to make a little change
38:30to the agenda. Um we're going to have um
38:33Attorney General Chris Carr stop um come
38:35up first um and then we're going to make
38:37a couple changes as we go along. So,
38:39Attorney General Chris Carr, thank you
38:41for coming and speaking to us.
38:42>> Chairman, thank you so much uh for this
38:44and and I I can confirm your story is
38:47acc
38:52crossover day and heard this particular
38:55podcast and so I appreciate it.
38:57Chairman, I thank you. I thank you for
38:58your passion. I thank the committee uh
39:01and the members for your willingness to
39:03participate as well. Sean Conroy from
39:05our office is part of your group. He is
39:08absolutely outstanding. He's the tip of
39:10the spear. Many of y'all may have worked
39:11with Sean on any number of consumer
39:13protection issues, but he's been working
39:15on this issue with George Watson, who of
39:18course works with y'all all the time as
39:20well. And so, uh I thank you very very
39:22much. We all know that social media is a
39:24major concern for Georgia families. And
39:27as a father of two daughters, I
39:28completely understand. As someone told
39:30me years ago when we started I had
39:33started having kids and we started
39:34talking about social media. They said,
39:36"You would never put your child in the
39:38middle of Time Square, your
39:40eight-year-old in the middle of Times
39:41Square by themselves. So why do you
39:43think it's okay to put them online where
39:46they have access to the world?" Let's be
39:49clear, this isn't just a public safety
39:51issue or it's a or a policy discussion.
39:54It's a major concern that's adding to
39:56the growing mental health crisis of our
39:59children in this nation. And over the
40:01years, social media has led to increased
40:04rates of anxiety, depression, suicide,
40:07cyber bullying, extortion, and sexual
40:10exploitation among children and teens.
40:14And while the companies behind these
40:16platforms know all about the threats to
40:18our kids, families have been kept in the
40:21dark. In fact, not only has big tech
40:24persisted in trying to keep kids
40:26addicted, they've actively tried to hide
40:28from the public the dangers and the
40:31negative effects. But not anymore. So
40:34again, I thank you for all that you all
40:36are doing to protect Georgia's children.
40:38Mr. Chairman, you talked about
40:40roadblocks and I'll start. There's a
40:41number of things our office is doing to
40:43protect kids in this space and the first
40:45one is the roadblocks investigation that
40:47we just recently uh announced. We
40:50launched this investigation into Roblox
40:52to determine whether the company is
40:54violating our state consumer protection
40:57laws and putting Georgia's children at
40:59risk. Roblox has millions of children
41:02and teenage users. And what worries me
41:04most is they really do target younger
41:06kids. And what keeps me up at night is
41:09exactly what the chairman said. Who is
41:12on the other line? Who's at the end of
41:15that chat? Earlier this year, the
41:18Georgia State Patrol recovered two girls
41:20who went missing from their home in
41:22Florida after communicating with a
41:2419-year-old stranger on Roblox. In 2023,
41:28an adult posing as a child used Roblox's
41:32chat function to contact a 12year-old
41:35boy in Dicab County who was later
41:37coerced into sending explicit photos.
41:40And these are just a couple of the many
41:42ways in which predators are using this
41:44particular platform to groom and harass
41:46children. And parents deserve answers.
41:49That's why we launched this particular
41:51investigation. And we're determined to
41:53find out what Roblox knows, what they're
41:56doing about it, and if they have lied to
41:59Georgia's families about safety on their
42:01platform. We're also prosecuting the
42:04traffickers who are targeting our
42:06children online. And just recently, our
42:08human trafficking prosecution unit
42:10convicted an adult male who initiated
42:13contact with a teenage girl on Snapchat.
42:16The online communication led to an
42:18in-person meeting and eventually turned
42:20into child sex trafficking. And
42:22unfortunately, this is how the majority
42:24of our human trafficking cases start
42:27through conversations on Facebook and
42:29Instagram, Snapchat, Roblox, Tik Tok,
42:32and any other platform where two human
42:34beings have the ability to communicate.
42:36Predators aren't attacking our children
42:38in dark alleys. They are attacking them
42:40online.
42:42And look at the increase in financial
42:44sex extortion cases that are targeting
42:47children throughout the country. Teen
42:49boys in particular are especially
42:52susceptible to this type of crime. And
42:54the threat of exposure far too often
42:56results in an alarming increase in
42:59suicide.
43:01And that's why we all have to ensure
43:03that social media companies are doing
43:04their part to address reports of abuse
43:07and exploitation. It's also why these
43:10same companies must implement meaningful
43:12parental controls to ensure families are
43:15fully equipped to monitor and manage
43:17their child's online activity. So, I
43:19applaud each and every one of y'all in
43:21this room for the passage of SB uh one,
43:24which is known as Protecting Georgia's
43:26Children on Social Media Act of 2024.
43:29This legislation provided for critical
43:31parental control measures and age
43:32verification requirements, and we fully
43:35support the law. But unfortunately,
43:38rather than working with us, the Social
43:39Media Trade Association filed a lawsuit
43:42to block your bill. And we recently
43:44argued before the 11th Circuit Court of
43:46Appeals in defense of that law, and now
43:49we're waiting for a ruling. And in the
43:50meantime, we have joined several AG
43:52coalitions in support of similar
43:55statutes in other states so that we can
43:57send a strong message that we are not
43:59backing down. And while these are some
44:01of our most recent cases, we've also
44:03previously joined a multi-state lawsuit
44:06against Meta involving claims that the
44:07company knowingly designed and deployed
44:10harmful features on Instagram and other
44:13social media platforms that purposefully
44:15addict children and teens. And we're
44:18currently part of a multi-state
44:20investigation into Tik Tok to determine
44:22whether the company is uh violating
44:24state consumer protection laws and in
44:26doing so harming the mental health of
44:28our kids. And we recently joined a
44:30bipartisan coalition in support of the
44:32US Senate uh version of the kids online
44:35safety act KOSA which includes a key
44:38duty of care provision requiring online
44:41platforms to act in the best interest of
44:43minors while preserving every state's
44:46authority. So, as I close, I I will just
44:49say this. This issue is not going to get
44:51better on its own. And I am a limited
44:54government kind of guy. But I'll tell
44:56you, Georgia's Constitution right up the
44:58top says we all have a paramount duty.
45:00It's the protection of person and
45:02property. That's number one. And there
45:04is nothing more important than
45:06protecting our children. And this is an
45:08issue that we have to dig into. Just
45:11look at the numbers. Just look at the
45:14data. Our kids need our help and y'all
45:17are the tip of the spear right now and I
45:18thank y'all for that. And with that, I'm
45:20Chairman, I have to ask your questions
45:22or sit down and move on.
45:24>> No, we'd love to have some questions. I
45:26got a couple and then if anyone wants to
45:27chime in, that'd be great. Um, some
45:30interesting facts about Roblox. It's the
45:32largest platform in the world. Um, and
45:35it is very specifically targeted towards
45:37children. Um, the characters are
45:39blocked. It's not meant to be um the way
45:43it's looked and created is not meant for
45:45adults. It's very clearly for children.
45:47Um last fall when a lot of this
45:49information started to come out, Roblox
45:50had about a 75 million daily active user
45:53rating, which still at the time was the
45:55largest as a lot of this came out. Um
45:57financially, Roblox has taken pretty
45:59significant hit. Their stocks down
46:01almost 60 70%. However, as I looked at
46:04this about a month ago to gather more
46:06information starting the study
46:08committee, their user rating has almost
46:10doubled and actually as of that point in
46:13time, they were at 140 million daily
46:15active users. So, while this information
46:18is getting out to people in a financial
46:19stance of what they believe the in the,
46:21you know, year out will be for this
46:23company itself. Um, the kids are not
46:26hearing this or and I don't believe the
46:27parents are hearing this. So, I want to
46:29thank you for your investigation. Um I
46:32know you very kind are limited on what
46:33you can talk about that. Um but in the
46:36um efforts of potentially filing a
46:39lawsuit, I believe five or six states
46:41have. I think just last week or two
46:43weeks ago, Louisiana declared war on
46:45roadblocks. What is what are your
46:47thoughts on kind of next steps?
46:48>> Yeah, going where the facts and law take
46:51us as it relates to Georgia's laws.
46:54However, uh all options will be on the
46:57table. Uh there are conversations about
46:59other multi-states as well. Uh there's
47:02been private sector lawsuits uh in this
47:05space uh as well. I think you just have
47:07to come at it from a number of different
47:09ways. And you know so so I think you've
47:12got litigation. I think you've got
47:14regulation. I think you have
47:16legislation. Um you know and again you
47:19know I just I think that this is um I
47:22mean look we all have kids. It's hard to
47:25keep up with the technology. It's hard
47:27to figure out what's going on. And when
47:29our kids see these games and they're
47:31loving these games, we think everything
47:33is good. But I think now that all of
47:35this has come out, you have to take a
47:36multi-pronged approach. And our office
47:39will continue to do that and make this a
47:41priority so long as I'm the attorney
47:43general.
47:44>> Thank you.
47:47Anybody else?
47:47>> Yeah.
47:51>> Go ahead, Johnny.
47:52>> Hey, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one
47:54quick question for the attorney general
47:55there, but
47:56>> the bill that we passed, was that 24 or
47:5825 on the that required the age
48:01>> limit and that one's that's the bill
48:02that's tied up in court. Yes, sir.
48:04That's correct.
48:04>> Is there any updates on it at all of it?
48:06>> So, we just we just argue for the 11th
48:08circuit. So, we're waiting for them to
48:10get, you know, we're trying to get their
48:11opinion back. Okay.
48:13>> Um but again, this is just common sense.
48:15This is absolute common sense. You know,
48:17this is what frustrates me and you know,
48:19I I feel free to speak these days. Um,
48:23why do these companies keep fighting us,
48:25>> right?
48:26>> You know, I am as pro business as
48:28anybody in the country, you know, and I
48:30see the the value of of technology and
48:32and shoot, we've got Georgia Tech and
48:35the tech companies that we have around
48:36here, I think there's some really good
48:37things. But when you're talking about
48:39exploiting children, when you're talking
48:41about human trafficking, the fact that
48:43we get push back from these companies is
48:46infuriating to me. the goodwill that it
48:48would seem to me that they would want to
48:50engender to, you know, the the states
48:53that they're working in or working with
48:54federal government. To me, it's just
48:56mindboggling. And to to something as
48:59simple as allowing parents to have the
49:02control to, you know, they're allowing
49:04their kids to be on the platform. Why
49:06not? Why are you fighting it unless you
49:10know something we don't know? It's
49:12infuriating to me.
49:13>> Yep. Todd,
49:15>> Representative Jones, and then we'll
49:16have Representative Basmore.
49:19>> All of a sudden, I took over.
49:20>> I like the informality, but first of
49:22all, Mr. Attorney General, thank you for
49:23your service to the state.
49:25>> Uh, and in respect um to the separation
49:28of powers, I want to put you a little
49:29bit on the spot.
49:30>> Sure.
49:31>> If if there was one arrow in your quiver
49:34that you don't have that the general
49:35assembly could conceivably provide to
49:37you in the early part of 2027, what
49:40would be that arrow in the quiver that
49:42you'd like to have? So, u not putting on
49:45the spot, I wanted to kind of see the
49:46direction that y'all are going in and
49:47what where y'all wanted to go, but we
49:49want to be a part of of making of having
49:51that conversation. Um, you know, part of
49:54what I see right now is again, where is
49:57the help when we have cases like human
50:00trafficking? Why are we having to go out
50:02and and file lawsuits as it relates to
50:04kids? Um, we have done this with you all
50:07in the human trafficking space in many
50:10different ways as it relates to maybe AI
50:12or taking, you know, someone's image.
50:15Um, but I want we wanted to see what
50:16direction y'all were going to go in, but
50:18then we're happy to work with you to
50:19figure out what that may be. And Sean
50:21can help with that as well.
50:25>> Represent Basmore.
50:27>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr.
50:29Attorney General. Um recently I
50:32understand that a state has um
50:35eliminated those individuals from under
50:3816 from having access. How difficult do
50:42you think that would be in this state to
50:45do and would it be beneficial?
50:48>> Oh well let me just well I'll say this.
50:50I commend you for uh banning cell phones
50:53in schools. I think that's a tremendous
50:56it's needed. Um look that's a policy
50:58discussion that y'all could have. Um,
51:00and you know, uh, I think there are, you
51:04know, potentially legal considerations.
51:06There's probably practical
51:07considerations. There may be, you know,
51:09political considerations on that. Uh,
51:11but I think those are the kind of
51:12conversations that y'all could have and
51:15should have and see what ends up where
51:17y'all end up being. But again, that the
51:21the data is there and and look, we all
51:24have it. I'm a parent. let my daughter
51:27have Instagram and, you know, Facebook
51:29and all that type of stuff. But the
51:32reality is the more time they spend on
51:34social media, the more anxiety goes up,
51:36the more their stress levels go up, the
51:38more suicide rates go up. They're
51:41spending less time with other human
51:43beings. I mean, again, I think we are
51:44relational creatures that have souls
51:46that are looking for each other. But
51:48this separation um you know I I
51:51personally I just don't think is healthy
51:52where that right balance is. I think
51:54that's you know I defer to the
51:56enlightened conscience of the
51:58legislature.
51:59>> Thank you so much.
52:04>> Anybody else? I have one more question.
52:06Yes sir. Um
52:08>> Congress has recently introduced HR7757
52:11the kids act. Have you are you I think
52:13it just happened like a week ago. Have
52:15you looked at that or have
52:16>> I don't but I be h because we the Senate
52:19version that I mentioned to you the one
52:21that's got the duty of care I'm aware of
52:23that other one I am not familiar with.
52:25>> So in a general sense of it and I do I I
52:28agree that we'll look into it
52:29>> the Senate one is a little bit better.
52:31One of the things that I'm
52:34guess a lot of what they're doing is
52:37good. My problem becomes is one um this
52:40would supersede all state legislation is
52:42the way I read understand this this
52:44legislation for it to go in place and it
52:46would become a federal issue which would
52:48prevent states um and I believe even
52:51civil where um
52:53>> from from people being able to go after
52:55these platforms. So can you talk to
52:57that? I know
52:58>> I I I can in general terms that kind of
53:00goes back to what Representative Jones
53:01may have been asking about what arrows
53:03in the quiver. So So here's the way I
53:05look at it. I mean I'm a
53:06constitutionalist. All right. If it has
53:08to do with national security or
53:09interstate commerce or federal criminal,
53:12yeah, Congress should deal with that.
53:14>> Do I think they should preempt the
53:15states? No. Because we have state
53:17criminal and we have consumer protection
53:20that I think we need to protect because
53:22at the end of the day, there is a child
53:24in a state, there is a parent in a state
53:27that's being victimized. And I think you
53:29all and we all have a duty and a
53:32responsibility. Uh I am sure that the
53:35companies would love to preempt it.
53:37>> U I I will say I am not a huge fan of
53:40private lawsuits. However, there are
53:43maybe times where that you know if if if
53:46you can't get something else done, I'm
53:48not going to tie the hands of a parent
53:49and say, "Look, if your child's been
53:51harmed and they do it, you have recourse
53:52to our courts." But I do think there is
53:55a role to play. Again, national
53:56security, interstate commerce, federal
53:58criminal, sure, Congress should do it.
54:01uh state uh criminal uh consumer
54:05protection. I think we have an
54:06obligation on that. So, I would I would
54:09not be in favor of preempting state law.
54:13>> Okay. Awesome. Thank you very much.
54:15>> Got it. Thank you all so much.
54:17Appreciate General.
54:24>> Before I move on, again, remind everyone
54:26this is my first committee meeting. Um,
54:28I'd be um in trouble if I didn't
54:31recognize my beautiful wife that came
54:33here to help me. Karen, our newborn
54:35four-month-old over there. Um, thank
54:38you. Thank you, Lauren, for keeping me
54:40straight.
54:41Um, just to go a little bit more before
54:43I introduce our next speaker. Um, I I
54:46have three two young kids now, three
54:48young. Um, and I'm I want to be clear,
54:50I'm not against video games. Like, I
54:52grew up playing video games. I a lot of
54:54this came from I bought a Switch for my
54:56kids for Christmas. I wanted to play
54:57Mario Kart with my kids. And in doing
55:00that and looking a little bit of some
55:01YouTube stuff, all of a sudden, Roblox
55:03popped up and my kids wanted to play
55:05Roblox. Um, which I found interesting.
55:07Nintendo does not allow Roblox onto
55:09their platform. Um, that thought as I
55:11was looking into it, trying to download
55:13it so I could start experiencing it.
55:14Nintendo will not allow it because of
55:16the um because of the content they allow
55:20without oversight is essenti that's
55:21that's um paraphrasing. So, um, so I
55:26want to introduce our next guest. Um, I
55:28actually was planning on putting a
55:30little bit of some information on the
55:31screens on the podcast that I listen to,
55:34but we have something even better. We
55:36have the per man himself that was on the
55:38podcast that um, in my opinion really
55:40started this conversation nationwide.
55:42Um, Sean Ryan is a podcaster, one of the
55:45more well-known podcasters. Um, and
55:47Shawn had um, a man by the name of, I
55:50believe, Ryan Montgomery. Ryan was Ryan
55:52Montgomery um who he claims he uh
55:55self-proclaims to be an ethical hacker
55:57and a lot of in that podcast they were
55:58talking about Roblox and a lot of the
56:00dangers of it. Correct me if I'm wrong
56:02but Ryan Montgomery introduced uh
56:05Schlepp to uh to Shawn Ryan and their
56:08podcast that Schlepp's podcast with
56:10Shawn was the one I was listening to on
56:12the way home when I heard about
56:13everything. And so I won't give too much
56:16up, but um Schlepp's experience with
56:18this direct personal experience with
56:20this platform is a big reason is the
56:23biggest reason why we are here today. It
56:25started this for me. It started
56:27conversations in the house with other
56:29representatives. Um and so without any
56:31more schle we'd uh we'd love for you to
56:33present.
56:35If you want to go to the the podium,
56:36it'll be a little easier for them to get
56:38you up there.
56:44Yeah. So, uh, hi. Uh, I'm Schllepp and,
56:47um, I, uh, am I'm am a YouTuber, um,
56:50who, uh, I got six child predators
56:54arrested within the Roblox community in
56:56about 10 months. And it was very
57:00shocking to see the company's response
57:01to this. Um, I had been documenting uh
57:05the problems that were going on with the
57:06platform and I'd been trying to bring
57:09this predator issue to the attention of
57:11the company. Um, I was reporting this
57:14stuff directly to the company. Um, and I
57:17was very shocked to see how they handled
57:20it. Um, we would get arrests on child
57:23predators. These predators would message
57:25decoy accounts that we would set up
57:27within the Roblox community and they
57:30would show up in person to do horrible
57:32stuff with people who they would suspect
57:34were children and we would immediately
57:36report them to law enforcement. Law
57:38enforcement would arrest these
57:39predators. Um, three of which now were
57:41convicted. Um, one is uh uh two actually
57:46are on the sex offender registry. Uh,
57:48one is mentioned in in one of the state
57:50lawsuits filed against Roblox. Um, and
57:54during these arrests, uh, or after we
57:57would go ahead and get these guys
57:58arrested, Roblox would we would send all
58:01of our information to Roblox. And in
58:03multiple cases, they would not take it
58:06seriously. They would leave these
58:08accounts up until after I would make a
58:11video that'd be posted on YouTube, which
58:13would eventually get millions of views.
58:15And only then would Roblox take action
58:17against these child predators. And it
58:19was something truly shocking to see
58:21because uh as a kid I had my own
58:24experience uh on on Roblox and that is
58:26how I got really involved in this sort
58:28of sort of work and uh I was groomed on
58:31the platform and uh I had a suicide
58:34attempt due to my own grooming and as a
58:38result uh my mom emailed Roblox and she
58:42was given a very similar response which
58:45was pretty much being brushed off and
58:49You know, I have been documenting and
58:51showcasing the the gross negligence of
58:54this company for for multiple years now.
58:57Um, I've seen developers on the
58:59platform, major developers boycott the
59:02company for for their safety issues and
59:05their failures. And you know, it it is
59:08become such a problem um to where only a
59:11couple weeks ago uh I did a panel with
59:13Chris Hansen at a major crime convention
59:16and uh on a on a panel in front of
59:19thousands of parents, Chris Hansen was
59:21able to showcase uh the predators
59:24operating on the platform within seconds
59:26of playing some games on the site. Um
59:29and that stuff's horrifying to even
59:30think about. Um, I mean there's videos
59:33that you can see on on YouTube where uh
59:36safety advocates go into schools and
59:38they ask children in classrooms uh have
59:42people tried to get you off platform to
59:44do inappropriate stuff and half the kids
59:47raised their hands. So, I mean, this is
59:48a systemic problem. Par parents don't
59:52realize how widespread this is and uh
59:54you know, I I have a lot of kids that
59:56message me and and daily I get emails, I
59:59get messages. Uh it's all of them is
1:00:01just predator this, Predator that. I've
1:00:04been playing the game, I saw this, and
1:00:06just some of the most horrific content
1:00:08has been allowed and it's it's truly
1:00:12sad. Um yeah, and uh after what what was
1:00:17very shocking though, um after I got
1:00:19these six child predators arrested, the
1:00:21company's response to it, um rather than
1:00:24to go after these predators, uh they
1:00:26decided to actually go after me legally.
1:00:28Uh they sent me a cease and desist
1:00:30letter, uh threatening to sue me for
1:00:32computer fraud. Um you know, I made it
1:00:35pretty clear to the company that I would
1:00:36sign any contract. I just wanted a line
1:00:39to report these people to them. Uh, and
1:00:41I even went as far as to say I would
1:00:42stop doing videos and all of that. Uh,
1:00:45that meant that I could actually make
1:00:46meaningful change to the company. And,
1:00:49you know, they went as far as to to uh
1:00:53give me a legal threat. And, you know,
1:00:56uh, and as a result, they uh, they faced
1:00:59a a whole horrible PR disaster that
1:01:03followed, probably one of the worst ones
1:01:05in the history of gaming. The following
1:01:07week, Liz Moral filed her lawsuit. the
1:01:10attorney general of Louisiana and uh the
1:01:13company lost around 14 billion dollars
1:01:15worth of stock uh by the end of the
1:01:17week. So, it was a pretty big deal and
1:01:20um yeah, I've just all I've been doing
1:01:23is trying to raise awareness to what
1:01:24this game has allowed in and the very
1:01:27horrible problems that that has has
1:01:30proceeded to happen and is continuing to
1:01:33happen.
1:01:36Thank you for your So ju to be clear um
1:01:39you you after you know being groomed on
1:01:43Roblox part of you wanting to um you
1:01:46know work through some things is you
1:01:48wanted to help people like yourself on
1:01:50Roblox. So you went on you you um
1:01:55I guess got legal information from what
1:01:57I understand on how to catch predators
1:01:58on Roblox um to not uh ent trap or
1:02:02whatever. And then after having six
1:02:04people con arrested, I think two at the
1:02:06time two people convicted. And every
1:02:08time you were sending this information
1:02:09to the authorities, you were sending
1:02:11that same information to Roblox. That's
1:02:12when they sent you the cease and cease
1:02:14and desist and kicked you off the
1:02:15platform. And then I guess it was what a
1:02:18week later that they sent a PR. The PR
1:02:20statement he's talking about they sent
1:02:21out was they said told the world we will
1:02:24not allow vigilantes on our platform.
1:02:27Not we will not allow predators. We will
1:02:30not allow vigilantes. It's my
1:02:32understanding that um robots will not
1:02:34allow police to conduct investigations
1:02:36on robots as well. So um and and I
1:02:40believe from what I heard um from your
1:02:42podcast as well, if um at least at the
1:02:45time, if if a predator was communicating
1:02:48with a an individual and they felt they
1:02:50had been compromised, if they unfriended
1:02:53that person, that chat log was gone like
1:02:56forever. even under um order it was it
1:03:00would delete itself from their database
1:03:02where they could not access the
1:03:03information.
1:03:05Um so again a lot of that is um well
1:03:09tell me more of kind of what you feel
1:03:10about kind of how that's happened and
1:03:12and
1:03:13>> I mean you've been in this for a while.
1:03:15you've been a big player in this and a
1:03:17lot of people. Um, and one more thing I
1:03:18think you told me that I think you
1:03:20didn't say is when Chris Henson
1:03:23>> was on stage and playing Roblox live in
1:03:25front of this thing. Roblox killed his
1:03:27account.
1:03:28>> Yep.
1:03:29>> Live.
1:03:29>> Yeah. In front of thousands of parents
1:03:31>> in front of a thousand people and
1:03:32parent. They disabled his account.
1:03:35>> Now, I think you said they they gave it
1:03:36back to him later, but um
1:03:38>> No, actually the the account, as far as
1:03:40I'm aware, is still banned. Uh, and they
1:03:42banned Chris Hansen for apparently
1:03:45inappropriate behavior. Um, the accounts
1:03:48that Chris Hansen uh was messaging him
1:03:51like Chris was not engaging. Uh, these
1:03:53people were asking to move the
1:03:55conversation to Discord or to Snapchat
1:03:57and all of that. Um,
1:04:00they they uh those people were left on
1:04:02the platform for quite a bit of time.
1:04:04And uh, you know, the games that I was
1:04:07showcasing were games that I had brought
1:04:09awareness to for a very long time. It
1:04:10was stuff that I was showing like on the
1:04:12Shan Ryan show that there are these
1:04:14games uh based off of stuff like Omega,
1:04:17which is a chat uh website that was sued
1:04:20out of existence uh have been recreated
1:04:23and replicated onto Roblox and Predators
1:04:27utilize these heavily and literally
1:04:30within seconds of joining these games uh
1:04:32they will contact you. They will try to
1:04:34get you from Roblox to platforms like
1:04:37Discord, Snapchat, these private
1:04:39communication, uh, sites, and they're
1:04:41immediately trying to to get nude
1:04:43pictures out of you. Um, and you know,
1:04:46uh, the company, uh, definitely knows
1:04:48about these games. Um, but they keep
1:04:51resurging. They they immediately come
1:04:52back when one gets taken out,
1:04:54immediately comes right back onto the
1:04:56platform. And, you know, these are huge
1:04:59safety concerns uh, with with the site.
1:05:02And uh I I wish they really took this
1:05:05stuff more seriously. I it shouldn't be
1:05:07possible where you can play a game on
1:05:10the site and be contacted by child
1:05:12predators within seconds. Um I think
1:05:15that is just absolutely outrageous and
1:05:17it it fundamentally goes against every
1:05:19single promise that Roblox is making to
1:05:21parents.
1:05:25Um, tell us about some of the content on
1:05:28the platform, the games themselves that
1:05:30you've experienced.
1:05:32>> Yeah. Uh, I've seen a lot of really
1:05:35horrific stuff um on the platform. Um,
1:05:38you know, I uh a lot of it ranges from
1:05:42predatory content. Um, something I I
1:05:45brought a lot of awareness to on the
1:05:46Shawn Ryan show was uh there's a lot of
1:05:49mass shooting games on the platform. uh
1:05:52games that are specifically designed to
1:05:55replicate real life shootings where they
1:05:58have the names of the victims above
1:06:00their heads of where the victims were
1:06:02standing. Um they have the same guns uh
1:06:06like the exact same models of the
1:06:08characters of what they were wearing. Um
1:06:10like literal onetoone recreations of
1:06:13these shootings and you know after you
1:06:15finish shooting it has a leaderboard of
1:06:17all the people you killed. Um, th this
1:06:20is something that Roblox is now starting
1:06:23to to actually take action on. But for a
1:06:25very long time, they were allowing this
1:06:28stuff to to to exist on their platform
1:06:30pretty just I mean, it didn't take a
1:06:33long time to to even find this sort of
1:06:35stuff. Um, but to to the more predatory
1:06:39side of of the platform, I mean, you
1:06:42know, I've been sent some of the most
1:06:44outrageous things possible. uh things
1:06:46that would any parent if they saw this
1:06:49their kid is immediately off this game.
1:06:50I mean I I've been kids have sent me
1:06:53like photos of of like uh cam that have
1:06:56just been uploaded onto the platform.
1:06:58Um, and you know, uh, there's been shock
1:07:01videos of people suiciding that I've
1:07:03been sent and and, uh, uh, graphic
1:07:07graphic material that has been uploaded
1:07:09and and the idea that you could join any
1:07:12potential game and be exposed to this
1:07:13content. Um, that's horrifying, you
1:07:17know, traumatizing for a child. Um, and
1:07:20you know, I I think a lot of what I see
1:07:23with Roblox's responses uh to these
1:07:26statements is less or to these the sort
1:07:29of content on their platform that's
1:07:30proliferating is less about
1:07:32acknowledging it and more of watering
1:07:33down these topics and more of trying to
1:07:36to smooth it over that we're trying our
1:07:38best. But they really need to truly
1:07:41acknowledge this problem and and really
1:07:44give some some actual statements on what
1:07:46they're planning to do to fully fully
1:07:48stop this.
1:07:50>> Yeah. Talk even more about some of those
1:07:53games. Um, one of the ones you were
1:07:54alluding to was the the Sandy Hook
1:07:56school shooter. They had recreated that
1:07:58to the level of detail of the police
1:07:59report.
1:08:00>> The school shooter didn't go in the
1:08:02front door because they were locked. He
1:08:03had shot out the window next to it. So,
1:08:05you have to know that. You have to shoot
1:08:06out that window to get in the building.
1:08:08Um, all of the classrooms are locked
1:08:09except for the classrooms that he went
1:08:11in. And as you go in those classrooms
1:08:12and you pull the trigger, um, the
1:08:15victim, the actual victim's name in that
1:08:17classroom comes up on your screen. And
1:08:19then at the end, you get a scoreboard to
1:08:21see if you killed all of the kids in the
1:08:23classroom.
1:08:24>> Uh, the Coline one, which I believe
1:08:25there was multiple ones. The one that we
1:08:27saw was um at the shooter came back
1:08:30after the shooting. As soon as you get
1:08:32inside the police perimeter, um you are
1:08:34prompted to either kill all the police
1:08:36or kill yourself.
1:08:38Uh we'll go into this a little bit more,
1:08:40but the again at the time every mass
1:08:43school shooting had been recreated on
1:08:45that platform multiple times. And again,
1:08:47that's the level of detail of the police
1:08:48reports.
1:08:50>> One of the other um things that they
1:08:52were doing with this um and some of
1:08:54these groups that I want to talk about
1:08:55next was they were encouraging students
1:08:57or kids to to recreate those and they
1:09:01would tell them if you go shoot your
1:09:03school up, we will recreate this on the
1:09:05platform and you'll live forever.
1:09:07So, um moving towards some of these
1:09:09groups, tell us more. I know 764 is a a
1:09:12giant group. Um, I've seen some articles
1:09:14recently the FBI is looking into them as
1:09:16well. So, um, tell us more about kind of
1:09:19some of these groups, what they're
1:09:20looked for. Um,
1:09:22>> yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think one
1:09:25that I can specifically talk, uh, in a
1:09:28lot of context about was, um, it was a
1:09:32pretty shocking one that that appeared
1:09:33on the platform, uh, like this. It was a
1:09:36Roblox, and I say this in quotes, cult,
1:09:39uh, called Spawnism. And it was started
1:09:41by a member of 764 whose entire goal was
1:09:45to be able to groom and get
1:09:47impressionable children uh to to be able
1:09:50to do horrible horrible things to uh
1:09:52this group uh I was raising the well or
1:09:55the the alarm on and uh they actually
1:09:57went after me and were swatting me and
1:09:59all of that. Um but this was a group
1:10:02that was grooming so many children. Um
1:10:05they would specifically
1:10:07uh their whole format was to recreate a
1:10:11religion where these kids had to do
1:10:13sexual acts to please their god. And
1:10:16this god was a member of 764. Um and he
1:10:20would sextor them. He'd publish their
1:10:22nudes online. He would do absolutely
1:10:24horrific things. And it was a whole
1:10:27ordeal. And um you know, as far as I'm
1:10:31aware, Roblox has never made any
1:10:32statement about this, but it was
1:10:34something that was very serious and was
1:10:35causing a lot of damage. The FBI came to
1:10:38my house and uh I I ended up having to
1:10:40put them in touch with some victims that
1:10:42I was approached by from this group. Um
1:10:45but I've seen some really horrific stuff
1:10:46when it's come to 764. There were games
1:10:49on the platform uh where these people
1:10:51would specifically go into to hunt for
1:10:53children. Uh, one that has been
1:10:56mentioned in a lot of the attorney
1:10:57general lawsuits was called Dollhouse
1:10:59Roleplay. And, uh, that game within
1:11:02seconds of joining, you could find
1:11:04people within these, uh, they're called
1:11:07the comm community uh, in in, you know,
1:11:10764, all these different things. You
1:11:12would find these people um, just openly
1:11:15about in these games. Um, I was uh
1:11:18before any of these lawsuits happened, I
1:11:20was in an article by The Sun showcasing
1:11:22that this is the content within this
1:11:24game. And they this is a place where
1:11:27these people are hunting for children
1:11:28that you can see in real time. And you
1:11:32know, uh, I I've seen content within
1:11:34that game where people will get like 764
1:11:37members will sex these kids, will get
1:11:40them to self harm, and then they'll
1:11:41actually upload those self harm images
1:11:44onto Roblox and then flaunt them around
1:11:46as avatar accessories to showcase to
1:11:49other users uh, within games on the
1:11:52platform. So, I mean, it's it's
1:11:54absolutely horrifying. um especially 764
1:11:59what they've been doing. Um I know uh a
1:12:02dad who lost their child from 764 uh uh
1:12:06related to Roblox. Um it's it it's truly
1:12:09some some of the most disgusting stuff.
1:12:12>> Yeah, I know we have a big problem with
1:12:14bullying in America and you know kids
1:12:16picking on each other and saying they'll
1:12:18do this or do that. Um the follow
1:12:21through tends to be maybe not as much.
1:12:24It's a it's a threat. this 764 group
1:12:27consider themselves nihilists. Nothing
1:12:29means anything and in their mind they
1:12:30believe everyone should suffer. So once
1:12:32they get this picture or whatever as
1:12:34they are, you know, pretending to be
1:12:36someone that they love or whatever. Um
1:12:39there are plenty of people on there that
1:12:41do that and then ask for money and and
1:12:42are extorting these kids. And it's
1:12:44funny, one of the first things that they
1:12:45threaten them with is I'll tell your
1:12:47parents. Can you imagine some a kid
1:12:49being told to tell your parents and that
1:12:51being enough to do anything so your
1:12:53parents don't know when your parents are
1:12:54the ones that can protect you. But um
1:12:58this group, correct me if I'm wrong
1:13:00please let they have about a 200page
1:13:02manual that they give the members that
1:13:04categorizes age, sex, likes, and once
1:13:07you kind of get your minor into whatever
1:13:09it gives you a step by step on what to
1:13:11do, how to do it. And this group doesn't
1:13:14just threaten. They will send it out.
1:13:16They send the information to parents.
1:13:18They ruin these kids' lives. Um, one of
1:13:20the things their favorite things to do
1:13:21is I think they call virtual funerals
1:13:23and they convince these kids to commit
1:13:25suicide on live feeds.
1:13:27>> Um,
1:13:28>> yeah. Yeah. I I know a dad who uh the
1:13:30dad I was talking about. Um, he believes
1:13:33his daughter was was was uh what I would
1:13:36say murdered um by these people from 764
1:13:39on one of these virtual funerals. Um,
1:13:42and you know, they they are so
1:13:43sophisticated with their grooming and
1:13:45how they do it. Um, they utilize so many
1:13:48different strategies like love bombing
1:13:49and all of that to really try to build a
1:13:51a connection with with these people. Um,
1:13:54and you know, I think one thing as well
1:13:56that really has made it so easy for for
1:13:58groups like 764 and just predators in
1:14:00general is the currency surrounding
1:14:03Roblox, which is called Robux. Uh, this
1:14:06currency is something any child will
1:14:08pretty much do whatever for the to make
1:14:11a successful game on Roblox, you have to
1:14:13make the most addictive and monetizable
1:14:16game on the platform. They they
1:14:17prioritize engagement and revenue. And
1:14:20as a result, the top games on the
1:14:22platform are stuff you can almost
1:14:25compare to like walking in a casino. And
1:14:28you have to obviously uh buy this
1:14:31currency. And you know, these kids want
1:14:34it. they will do anything for this
1:14:36currency on Roblox. And as a result,
1:14:39you'll see groups like 764, you'll see
1:14:41predators, they'll utilize Roblox uh
1:14:44gift cards um because they're they're
1:14:46very hard to trace um and just, you
1:14:49know, uh anything to do with their
1:14:50currency. If you send me this photo, I
1:14:53will give you this Roblox currency. And
1:14:57that is what a lot of this extortion
1:14:59starts at because it goes straight from
1:15:00there as soon as the nude picture is
1:15:02sent and immediately straight to
1:15:04blackmail.
1:15:08>> Well, I have a couple other questions,
1:15:09but I want to I'll let some other people
1:15:11back. Representative Camp,
1:15:16>> thank you and thank you for being here
1:15:17to share your story. I did listen to the
1:15:20podcast um and you were very honest in
1:15:23all of that and I appreciate you sharing
1:15:25your experience. Um for all of us who
1:15:29are not on roadblocks
1:15:30>> just to verify someone's got there is a
1:15:33monetization to this
1:15:35>> and um so someone at some point in time
1:15:38is paying for these games. Correct. Mhm.
1:15:41>> So,
1:15:44it would go to say that the miners
1:15:46probably are using a credit card or the
1:15:48gift cards as you alluded to. Correct.
1:15:50>> Yes.
1:15:51>> Um, is there any type of age
1:15:53verification that you're aware of from
1:15:55your experience playing or is it just
1:15:58entering a credit card number or the
1:16:00numbers on the back of a gift card?
1:16:03>> So, uh, as far as I'm aware, um, on
1:16:06Roblox, uh, let's say you have a gift
1:16:09card. You can go in any store and buy a
1:16:11Roblox gift card. To redeem that Roblox
1:16:13gift card, there's I mean you just put
1:16:16in the code and it's like putting in an
1:16:18Amazon gift card. Um I don't think that
1:16:20there is any form of uh age verification
1:16:23or anything like that to to access that.
1:16:26>> All right. And then I got another
1:16:27question again because I'm not on the
1:16:28platform, but I did see I've been to
1:16:30several stores recently that do sell
1:16:33gift cards and I have seen the
1:16:34Roadblocks gift card. So I appreciate
1:16:36the information on that. Are there
1:16:39advertisers on roadblock?
1:16:41>> Yes. Uh there there's a lot of
1:16:43advertisers on Roblox and I I think it's
1:16:45kind of interesting to see what some of
1:16:47these companies perspectives are now uh
1:16:50that all these safety concerns have come
1:16:51out. Um for instance, Disney uh a couple
1:16:55months ago uh Variety wrote a piece that
1:16:59apparently they are not even considering
1:17:01touching the platform because of all the
1:17:03safety related issues. But meanwhile,
1:17:05you'll see a lot of other big companies
1:17:07um uh for instance, I believe one was,
1:17:10uh Sega, uh they have a pretty massive
1:17:13Sonic game on the platform. And what I
1:17:16thought was very shocking was during one
1:17:18of the the interactions where I caught
1:17:21one of these child predators. He's now a
1:17:22convicted child predator. um
1:17:25advertisements for these these companies
1:17:27were were appearing in the background
1:17:28and it was absolutely appalling you know
1:17:31that this is a a live brooming situation
1:17:34and in the background is Sega with with
1:17:37their new Sonic movie you know um I I
1:17:40don't know if these companies are aware
1:17:42of what's taking place on the platform
1:17:44they definitely should be aware and uh
1:17:47you know in in that specific instance uh
1:17:50their brand was literally the the
1:17:52backdrop of an a grooming of now a
1:17:55convicted predator.
1:17:56>> All right. Thank you so much. I
1:17:58certainly appreciate you being here.
1:18:00>> Thank you.
1:18:03>> Represent Thomas.
1:18:07>> Here we go. Perfect. Thank you. Um,
1:18:11as for somebody that's not really super
1:18:12familiar with platform either, can you
1:18:15uh tell me a little bit about how how
1:18:17does it how's what's the typical entry
1:18:19into this ecosystem?
1:18:22Um, so to access Roblox, um, uh, you can
1:18:26make an account as young as a 5-year-old
1:18:29and, uh, you can pretty much play, uh,
1:18:32you have to, to use an age verific or do
1:18:34an age face verification, but, um, uh,
1:18:37Roblox allows you to play a handful of
1:18:39titles all across their platform. Um,
1:18:43the age verification stuff currently on
1:18:45the platform is unbelievably easy to
1:18:47circumvent. There is a ton of videos all
1:18:50across the internet of kids bypassing
1:18:53it, of uh doing different things uh to
1:18:56to get around it. Um but what I'm was
1:18:58most shocked to see is that you can just
1:19:00buy an account for as little as 50 cents
1:19:03um and be able to to access anything you
1:19:06want. You can What I think's really
1:19:08alarming about that is how Roblox's chat
1:19:12specifically works where you can only
1:19:15talk to people within your select age
1:19:16group. Um, so these people who are
1:19:19buying accounts, they can select pretty
1:19:20much any age group that they want to
1:19:22talk to and buy an account for as little
1:19:24as 50 cents and talk to, you know,
1:19:27anything that they want to. And uh, when
1:19:29when that initially came out, people
1:19:31were were labeling it as the predator
1:19:32buffet update because it literally
1:19:34allowed predators to talk to any age
1:19:36group they wanted to.
1:19:38>> I I've I've heard from other parents
1:19:41there's a the ability to isolate your
1:19:44child for they can't talk to anybody. is
1:19:47is that the passable or is this
1:19:50something that's
1:19:52again you could
1:19:55>> Yeah. So, Roblox does allow you to turn
1:19:57off your the chat for your children. Um,
1:20:00and you know that I think when parents
1:20:02ask me, they're like, "What what can I
1:20:04do to protect my kid?" Like, you know,
1:20:05they really want to continue to play
1:20:07this game. Um, that's the number one
1:20:10thing I recommend is you turn off chat.
1:20:12And uh you know the the thing with it
1:20:15though is it's still not 100% safe. I I
1:20:18read from a lot of parents, oh I turned
1:20:20it off, my my child uh still is safe.
1:20:23People can upload avatar accessories
1:20:25onto the platform. Um some of the most
1:20:28heinous stuff I've seen get uploaded of
1:20:30like gore of just horrible stuff. Um and
1:20:34uh it doesn't matter what parental
1:20:36controls you have on, what chat settings
1:20:38you have. uh if as long as a user joins
1:20:41your lobby with a horrible avatar, um
1:20:44they will be able to be exposed to it.
1:20:46And uh you know that that's something I
1:20:48I get from a lot of parents is I turned
1:20:50on all my parental control settings and
1:20:52my kid was just exposed to this really
1:20:54graphic, horrible material.
1:20:56>> So
1:20:59let's show my age here. My biggest
1:21:01concern was my chains on my bicycle. Um,
1:21:06so what the heck is an avatar accessory?
1:21:10>> Yeah. Yeah. So, Roblox allows you, so
1:21:13Roblox is like you can dress up your
1:21:16character and enter pretty much any
1:21:18world that you want to. Um, and you can
1:21:22upload character items onto the platform
1:21:24to dress up your character. And there's
1:21:26a whole marketplace around it uh where
1:21:28some of these creators are making
1:21:30hundreds of thousands of dollars every
1:21:32single year um around creating and and
1:21:35you know selling these uh accessories
1:21:36directly on the platform. Um but as
1:21:39Roblox went on uh their their
1:21:41restrictions became a lot more loose.
1:21:43They started letting players upload a
1:21:45lot more stuff that they clearly
1:21:47couldn't keep up with the moderation
1:21:48side of things. And as time went on, um,
1:21:51just graphic, horrible material was
1:21:53being openly accepted onto the platform.
1:21:56And it was taking way too long for
1:21:57Roblox to take down, uh, horrible stuff.
1:22:00And, uh, you know, that that's one of
1:22:04the things I get the most from kids and
1:22:05parents is that the there's horrible
1:22:08content of of avatar accessories being
1:22:11uploaded onto the platform, and my kid
1:22:13was just exposed to it. So in effect, if
1:22:16if a child buys an avatar accessory,
1:22:20does that create an ability for them to
1:22:22talk to the creator of it? I mean, is is
1:22:26the communication still locked down if
1:22:28you have the no chat or if you go in and
1:22:30you purchase this avatar accessory, does
1:22:32it open up like a window to be able to
1:22:35do that? Like said, forgive me if these
1:22:37are really dumb questions. I'm just
1:22:38trying to get my head around it.
1:22:40>> You're totally fine. Um, yeah. Uh, so
1:22:42no. Uh, if you buy an avatar accessory
1:22:44on Roblox, it doesn't allow the creator
1:22:46or anybody like involved with it to be
1:22:48able to message you. One thing though, I
1:22:50should probably mention, you can
1:22:52actually have your chat settings uh at
1:22:55the full restrictions, but there are
1:22:57actually games on Roblox that will
1:22:59bypass these chat restrictions by
1:23:01creating their own custom in-game chats.
1:23:03For instance, uh the game I was
1:23:05mentioning, uh that I had or that Chris
1:23:07Hansen had played at the crime
1:23:09convention, um that had its own custom
1:23:12chat. And as far as I'm aware with that
1:23:15game, um it didn't matter what age group
1:23:17you were, if you had the maximum
1:23:19settings for for chat restrictions, you
1:23:22could still talk to people um because it
1:23:25was its own custom chat that they made
1:23:29um within the platform. So, can any
1:23:32child just download that game that
1:23:34they're a five-year? So, okay, I'm just
1:23:37going to throw out a hypothetical
1:23:38because I don't know how to ask this
1:23:39question. So, I've got 5-year-olds. For
1:23:42whatever reason, I thought this was
1:23:44okay.
1:23:45>> 5-year-olds on the game system. It uh
1:23:47chat's all locked down and they now
1:23:52somehow, let's be honest with
1:23:545-year-olds pretty smart when it comes
1:23:56to tech stuff. they find out. Is there a
1:23:58way for them to get out of that? You
1:24:00said there was like five games or
1:24:02something you can originally play and
1:24:04maybe I heard you wrong, but they
1:24:06somehow can now download another game
1:24:08that then has a whole other set of rules
1:24:10that's outside of the main.
1:24:13>> So, Roblox has millions of games on the
1:24:16platform. Um, obviously there they they
1:24:19can't keep up with the amount of content
1:24:20that's being uploaded onto their site.
1:24:23Um, if I've seen games, uh, pretty much
1:24:26you could have every single parental
1:24:28control turned on and still be exposed
1:24:31to sexual content and, uh, uh, uh, as
1:24:35well with bypassing all the age
1:24:36verification, age estimation technology
1:24:38that they have. Um, in my last video
1:24:41about Roblox, I showcased a game that
1:24:44was age rated five and up. That was a
1:24:47sex game with nude avatars, uh, with
1:24:50genitalia,
1:24:51physics, fluids, everything that you
1:24:53could possibly imagine. It was a very
1:24:55graphic sex game, um, that was being,
1:24:58uh, that a like you could have all of
1:25:00your parental control settings on, a
1:25:02child could still play it. And also,
1:25:04Roblox's own algorithm recommends these
1:25:07sort of games. Uh, they sometimes will
1:25:09appear in people's recommended. Um, so
1:25:13this is stuff that, you know, you
1:25:16don't have to go searching for. It's
1:25:18being shown to you as as long as you're
1:25:21a user.
1:25:21>> So, it's actually being
1:25:23>> popped up on a screen.
1:25:25>> Yeah. So,
1:25:26>> I guess my question is, do the parents
1:25:28have any control over the child
1:25:30downloading these other games that maybe
1:25:31they're not aware of that seem to bypass
1:25:33some of the general rules that the main
1:25:36system, which I guess is what I'm going
1:25:38to call it, has.
1:25:39>> Yeah. Uh, I mean, some of these games
1:25:42are are have like egregious like
1:25:45violations of of Roblox's rules and in
1:25:48terms of service. Um, but yet they they
1:25:50let these games rack in millions and
1:25:52millions of plays and hits until finally
1:25:55it becomes a media problem for the
1:25:57company. And only then does Roblox
1:25:59finally make the the decision and the
1:26:01call to take these games down. And uh I
1:26:03think that really calls back to a lot of
1:26:05what these lawsuits are saying where
1:26:06roadblocks putting profits ahead of
1:26:08safety because they're making money on
1:26:10these games.
1:26:11>> I appreciate you providing us your
1:26:13perspective on that that system and and
1:26:15your experience. So thank you, Mr.
1:26:17Chairman. That's all I have for right
1:26:19now.
1:26:19>> Yeah. To add to that a little more, um
1:26:22so the the school shooting games, at
1:26:24least for the most part, have been taken
1:26:25down. Um, I've got a big IT guy that
1:26:27I've had try to try to deep dive and he
1:26:29said the games are still available on
1:26:32private servers. So where these groups
1:26:34can send them to people and they can
1:26:35play them on their own private servers,
1:26:37the general public, they cannot
1:26:38necessarily find some of them.
1:26:40>> Um, and some of our research here
1:26:42recently, they just took down over a
1:26:44hundred games that were all dedicated to
1:26:46the Charlie Cook assassination.
1:26:49>> Um, and so Brad, just one more piece
1:26:50like the the accessories he's talking
1:26:52about, think of it like a shirt. And in
1:26:54fact, I haven't had as much experience
1:26:56as I've wanted um with just kids and
1:26:58busy. But the little bit I've gone on,
1:27:00it was a um like a roller coaster game.
1:27:03And one of the people that came up to me
1:27:05and interacted had um basically a Satan
1:27:07in a shirt. There was devil horns and a
1:27:09pentagram and um um other ones that were
1:27:13definitely leaning more towards um
1:27:16explicit content and and I was under a
1:27:18five and under. And so to even add one
1:27:20more step. So, in as of now, or at least
1:27:23as the last time I played it, in order
1:27:24for the chat to work, um you do have to
1:27:27do a facial verification. Um but as
1:27:30Schle um alluded to, you can buy these.
1:27:34I mean, you buy an account. It's just a
1:27:35username and a password. So, you can go
1:27:37buy an account that has already been pre
1:27:40um I guess pre-certified. I mean, I I
1:27:44did not do it for reasons of legality,
1:27:46but I could have had my daughter of
1:27:47space use it. Um there's questions on
1:27:49what are they doing with those pictures
1:27:51how you know um so just to give a little
1:27:53bit more that's kind of more of
1:27:54>> ma'am Mr. Chairman.
1:27:55>> Yes sir.
1:27:56>> Um has anybody contacted Roblox and
1:27:59asked them to sit in front of this
1:28:00committee so we can start asking them
1:28:01questions?
1:28:02>> I wouldn't know how to contact Roblox.
1:28:04>> I've been pretty watching online right
1:28:07now.
1:28:07>> Well I' I'd love to have them come and
1:28:09talk. I' I've been pretty vocal about
1:28:10how I feel about it putting the articles
1:28:12out try to push it you know mediawide
1:28:14and no one has decided that they wanted
1:28:15to reach out to me. I wouldn't know how
1:28:17to reach out to them. But if they're
1:28:18watching, I'd love to have a
1:28:19conversation with you.
1:28:21>> Thank you.
1:28:23>> I have
1:28:25uh Representative Herring and then
1:28:27represents
1:28:29>> Thank you, Chairman.
1:28:31Thank you so much for being here today
1:28:32and for your courage to um stand up for
1:28:35children and for yourself. So, thank you
1:28:37for honoring your truth and being here
1:28:39today. Um, I just have a couple of
1:28:42questions. And to your point about if my
1:28:46child, because my daughter growing up, I
1:28:48have adult children now. Um, if she
1:28:50wanted to get on Dollhouse, for example,
1:28:53>> I allowed her to get on there as a
1:28:545-year-old. Are you saying that there
1:28:57can be v when she's on there and I've
1:28:59already approved it, there can be
1:29:01various advertisements or something that
1:29:03pops up onto her screen for her to join
1:29:07without me, you know, giving permission
1:29:10or anything during the time that she's
1:29:12on that game. Is that how that works? or
1:29:15because I'm still trying to figure out
1:29:18if I have all of these settings in place
1:29:21to protect my child, she gets on a game
1:29:25>> and I walk away, there's something that
1:29:27can immediately pop up that's in the
1:29:29form of an avatar to get her attention
1:29:33and therefore she's allured into this
1:29:37kind of situation that I didn't know
1:29:39about. Is that how that works? Um
1:29:42there's uh I mean there there's a lot of
1:29:44different types of predators and and
1:29:47that that use the platform. Um one of
1:29:50them is is predators that upload uh just
1:29:54horrific sexual content on the platform
1:29:57um to expose it to as many minors as
1:30:00possible. They they actually have a
1:30:02whole thing for this called EPI which
1:30:04stands for early porn introduction. And
1:30:06that is pretty much what they're trying
1:30:09to do is expose children to pornography
1:30:11so that they themselves become addicted
1:30:13to pornography like how they were. Um,
1:30:16and it it it's absolutely horrific and
1:30:18it's something that is been seen I've
1:30:20been seeing a lot uh in terms of uh
1:30:22common with with a lot of these Roblox
1:30:24predators. Um, but if you have make an
1:30:28account and it's set to 5 years old, um,
1:30:31someone can put on anything that they
1:30:33want to on their character and they can
1:30:35expose it to your child. Um, and that
1:30:38that's something that I have gotten from
1:30:39parents that they have told me that
1:30:41their child, very young child, has
1:30:43played Roblox, they had all the parental
1:30:46controls on and they were exposed to
1:30:48this, that, the other. Um, and and the
1:30:50other thing too is that predators will
1:30:52join innocent Roblox games like uh games
1:30:55about uh you know uh uh uh horses and
1:30:59you know just very uh you know normal
1:31:01sort of like you know a game a
1:31:045-year-old would play or something
1:31:05someone very very young and they will
1:31:08join these uh lobbies and they will say
1:31:10like hey I have all this currency within
1:31:12this game um if we could go on this
1:31:15platform and we can do this that the
1:31:17other I'll give you this currency and it
1:31:19leads from there to extortion and uh
1:31:22that's that's becoming increasingly more
1:31:25common. Um and uh with these lawsuits,
1:31:27especially the civil ones that have been
1:31:29filed against Roblox, um it it very
1:31:32graphically details uh exactly this. Um,
1:31:36like for instance, uh, I read one about
1:31:38a child who was in a a game called Pet
1:31:40Simulator who met a predator who was
1:31:43offering them currency within that game
1:31:46and, uh, you know, an innocent little
1:31:47game about pets and, uh, they ended up
1:31:51becoming a victim of sextortion. Um, and
1:31:54it really is horrible some of these
1:31:56cases. I mean, it it is uh, tr truly
1:31:59shocking and I really encourage
1:32:00everybody to check out some of these
1:32:02civil cases that have been filed against
1:32:03Roblox. I just have one more, Mr.
1:32:06Chairman, if you don't mind.
1:32:07>> Thank you for that. First of all, I
1:32:09wouldn't have my 5-year-old on the
1:32:10platform anyway, but um that's just me
1:32:13as a parent.
1:32:14>> You mentioned Discord.
1:32:16>> Yes.
1:32:16>> And I remember on the podcast you said
1:32:18this is now one of the most dangerous
1:32:20platforms.
1:32:21>> Absolutely.
1:32:21>> Can you explain that one?
1:32:24>> Yes. Uh Discord is easily uh one of the
1:32:28most unsafe platforms. I would I would
1:32:30say Roblox and Discord are kind of the
1:32:32perfect storm because Roblox funnels its
1:32:35users onto Discord. They uh have direct
1:32:38integrations on the platform. They're
1:32:40they're doing like stuff with each
1:32:42other's platforms and uh if you're an
1:32:44account and you have social media links,
1:32:46you can go directly from a Roblox game
1:32:48into a Discord server um or from on the
1:32:51Roblox web page. And uh kids have been
1:32:55kidnapped through that. They've clicked
1:32:56links from Roblox. They've joined
1:32:58discord servers and they've met child
1:33:00predators through them and they've ended
1:33:02up getting kidnapped. Um and uh you know
1:33:06the discord in itself is a absolutely
1:33:10horrible platform in terms of
1:33:11moderation. Uh there there's a lot of
1:33:14documentation to show this. Uh
1:33:16specifically uh some of the worst stuff
1:33:18I've seen in moderation is uh the eur
1:33:21Europe uh makes these companies have to
1:33:24go ahead and publish their moderation
1:33:25logs and how they are banning these
1:33:28people related to child safety issues.
1:33:30And some of the most egregious cases
1:33:32were showing that accounts with more
1:33:33than 200 uh child safety violations were
1:33:36being unbanned, let back on the
1:33:38platform, unbanned, let back on the
1:33:40platform. same exact accounts. Um
1:33:43there's uh a lot of studies on this sort
1:33:45of stuff. Uh there there's a really good
1:33:46piece um uh about this uh but Discord uh
1:33:51is really bad uh in terms of it. Like
1:33:54the one thing too that I was really
1:33:55shocked with is how um there's a lot of
1:33:59child porn traders on uh Discord and uh
1:34:03Discord when they find this out, they'll
1:34:06ban the account, but a lot of times
1:34:07they'll actually leave up the content
1:34:09that these accounts were posting and the
1:34:11the the the messages that they were
1:34:13sending. So pretty much uh the user is
1:34:17banned but their their message and you
1:34:19know trying to to find other people to
1:34:22trade and share and distribute childc
1:34:24porn it's it's still all there and uh
1:34:27you know I I have not seen enough
1:34:29meaningful action from Discord in terms
1:34:30of their moderation. Uh if anything uh
1:34:32they they've been very egregious with
1:34:34with how they they've gone at uh
1:34:37moderating their platform.
1:34:40For those of you that don't know,
1:34:41Discord is essentially a chat um app
1:34:45where people just go on and talk. It's
1:34:46just to communicate. Um yeah, it's just
1:34:49a chat. That's all the service really is
1:34:51is um private chats, open chats. Um
1:34:54that's essentially what Discord is. So
1:34:56>> yeah,
1:34:59>> Representative Glaze.
1:35:00>> Okay. Thank you so much. And Slept,
1:35:02thank you for um I think today I'm going
1:35:04to call you one of my superheroes.
1:35:07>> Thank you. Appreciate it. And as a
1:35:09grandmother, I'm just um taken aback by
1:35:12the level of of um horrific content. My
1:35:18eight-year-old came in town and
1:35:208-year-old grandson and he said last
1:35:22week, um I've got some phone numbers I
1:35:24want to um call. My friends are going
1:35:27teaching me how to play more games. and
1:35:30and I was just
1:35:33unbelievably just taken aback by the op
1:35:37that he had phone numbers that he could
1:35:40call and somebody's trying to teach him
1:35:43to play a game. And I said absolutely
1:35:44not.
1:35:45>> Give me your phone. Um let's take all of
1:35:48this out. But more importantly, my
1:35:50questions are around
1:35:52um are parents and grandparents uh are
1:35:56there sites available around uh consumer
1:35:59protections to give them basics?
1:36:03And then if they are, how do we help
1:36:06them get that information
1:36:09um out? We've got several um statewide
1:36:14um phone services around u mental
1:36:18health.
1:36:19>> Is there ways that we can use some of
1:36:21those sites to help parents learn more?
1:36:25That's one. And then are there places
1:36:28and repositories where students or young
1:36:32people themselves can
1:36:35um report sites that are have graphic
1:36:40and horrible um harmful information up?
1:36:46And then this is probably for the AG.
1:36:48The third one is, is there not legal
1:36:52grounds for um class action lawsuits
1:36:55from Georgia to these um companies such
1:36:59as Roblox and Discord?
1:37:01>> Yeah. Um so to to answer your question,
1:37:05um I definitely think uh education is is
1:37:08really the the key thing here that that
1:37:10parents really need and and it goes not
1:37:12just with parents but also kids. Um, you
1:37:15know, one of one of the most important
1:37:17things that I tell parents, and I think
1:37:19every parent should tell their kids
1:37:20this, is that, uh, you know, if they see
1:37:23something, uh, or if they do something
1:37:25that they're embarrassed or ashamed
1:37:27about, that they should feel the need
1:37:28that they can actually go to them, that
1:37:30they're not going to get in trouble, you
1:37:32know, um, that's the number one thing I
1:37:34hear from kids that come to me about,
1:37:36you know, abuse that takes place is that
1:37:38I'm too embarrassed to go to my parent
1:37:40because this, that, the other. Um, and
1:37:44uh, yeah, I I definitely think that
1:37:46there there should definitely be more in
1:37:47terms of uh, education. I've been
1:37:49helping um, uh, the the Pennsylvania
1:37:52State Police on a program that they're
1:37:54doing uh, educating parents about
1:37:56platforms like Roblox and Discord. Um,
1:37:59but I I I think really that that's a a
1:38:01very fundamental thing that that needs a
1:38:04lot more of of just education and being
1:38:07able to to help find and identify and,
1:38:10you know, spot these problems before
1:38:12your child does. And, you know, the the
1:38:14first line of defense is is your child,
1:38:16you know, um making sure that they know
1:38:19that you are the person to go to if they
1:38:21see something bad. Um but yeah, um yeah,
1:38:26>> thank you. Thank you.
1:38:34>> Anybody else have any questions? Yes,
1:38:36please.
1:39:08Yeah, neckmech is great. Uh they they
1:39:10have a phone number for I think it's
1:39:121800 the loss uh for specifically
1:39:15reporting predatory stuff. Um that I
1:39:18mean that's a a great resource um the
1:39:20the cyber tip line that they have. Um,
1:39:23yeah.
1:39:24>> Can you repeat that again?
1:39:26>> Uh, it's it's the National Center for
1:39:27Missing and Exploited Children. It's 1
1:39:30800 the lost. Uh, I I don't know that
1:39:32that's the the number. Um and they they
1:39:35also have their cyber tip line and uh
1:39:38they also have another thing for taking
1:39:40it's called take it down which is a
1:39:42program where children can there's like
1:39:45any seam of them uploaded online they
1:39:47can report it to them and neckmech will
1:39:50will go and try to get this content
1:39:52removed. Um they're an absolutely
1:39:53amazing organization that does
1:39:55incredible incredible work.
1:39:57>> Can you give us that number one more
1:39:58time? 1800 what?
1:40:00>> Uh the lost 1800
1:40:01>> the lost. the loss. Okay. T H E L O S T.
1:40:07>> T H E L O S T.
1:40:09>> Yes. Thank you.
1:40:12>> Sure.
1:40:15>> That's very good information. Uh in
1:40:18addition
1:40:19on the Attorney General's Consumer
1:40:21Protection Division website, if you look
1:40:23for online safety, uh you'll find some
1:40:26information there that will uh also help
1:40:29with parental controls to keep kids
1:40:32safer online. And to the question, very
1:40:35good question to uh what what action can
1:40:40consumers, citizens take? our our Fair
1:40:43Business Practices Act has a private
1:40:45right of action in it. I'm aware of of
1:40:48private lawsuits in Georgia involving
1:40:51some of the social media companies.
1:40:53Roblox and we're involved using the Fair
1:40:56Business Practices Act as the attorney
1:40:58general mentioned earlier in the Roblox
1:41:01investigation.
1:41:03>> Yeah.
1:41:04>> Thank you.
1:41:05>> Anybody have anything else?
1:41:09I have another question for you. If you
1:41:10were in our shoes, you were a state
1:41:12representative, you had the ability to
1:41:14introduce legislation. What would you do
1:41:16to help curtail and and help keep our
1:41:18youth more safe and on these platforms?
1:41:21>> Um, I definitely think that these
1:41:23platforms need to be more regulated uh
1:41:25and transparent regarding uh what
1:41:27they're doing in terms of moderation.
1:41:29Um, I think that these reports and the
1:41:32actions they're taking should be
1:41:33published. uh it should be something
1:41:35that that the public can actually view
1:41:37to see if Roblox is making meaningful
1:41:40action in regards to to their reports
1:41:42and their their their user feedback and
1:41:44all of that sort of stuff. Um you know
1:41:47it shouldn't be gatekept. Um and I I
1:41:50think that in itself would be very
1:41:51telling on on the platform's true ethics
1:41:53and in how they view moderation on the
1:41:55website. But I I think that's one thing.
1:41:58I think another thing is um you know the
1:42:01the a lot of the people at the company
1:42:04have uh really shown uh just
1:42:06specifically Roblox uh that they have
1:42:10like they've made some real strides in
1:42:12terms of uh doing the exact opposite of
1:42:15what you know would be considered good
1:42:17and ethical and uh in terms of of how
1:42:20they moderate their platform and all of
1:42:22that. Um you know I I I mean this this
1:42:26is more of a I I I really think
1:42:29investigating these companies directly
1:42:31is is really what needs to happen to see
1:42:33what their their practices are and what
1:42:34they're doing. Um, and you know, I I the
1:42:38Florida attorney general, he uh he's
1:42:41suing Roblox and uh it started with a
1:42:44normal subpoena and then it was upgraded
1:42:45to a criminal investigation. And he told
1:42:48Chris Hansen that based on the initial
1:42:50subpoena, he saw information that was so
1:42:55just incredibly shocking that it was
1:42:56updated to a criminal investigation
1:42:58against the company. So, I mean, this
1:43:00company is now being criminally
1:43:01investigated for for the their
1:43:03moderation practices, the stuff that
1:43:05they've been allowing. Um, but yeah, I I
1:43:08I think that that there definitely needs
1:43:10to be more regulatory stuff. Uh, these
1:43:12companies just have way too much free
1:43:14reign over what they're they're doing.
1:43:17>> I find it interesting that some of
1:43:19these, you know, another very popular
1:43:21game, Call of Duty. Um, I want to say a
1:43:23year ago, they had issues with um
1:43:26chatting with people, more of the
1:43:28offensiveness of it. Um, and they've
1:43:30done a pretty good job. They put in what
1:43:31I believe to be an AI bot that reads
1:43:34transcripts of every conversation you
1:43:36have while you're playing the game. If
1:43:38you use um explicit, uh, derogatory
1:43:41language, uh, you're kicked off. They
1:43:43kick you off the platform. Um, and I
1:43:45believe it's every couple hours it rolls
1:43:47through all the transcripts of as you're
1:43:48talking, you know, and kids talking
1:43:51through those games to each other. I,
1:43:53you know, that's fine. But again, they
1:43:55are having issues with this. They
1:43:57introduce technology. Um, and it, from
1:43:59my understanding, it's gotten a lot
1:44:00better because kids want to play. That's
1:44:02what all of this becomes is kids want to
1:44:03play this game. Yeah. Um, and so they're
1:44:06not able to use this. And if they are,
1:44:07again, they're getting they're getting
1:44:08kicked off and and banned from the
1:44:09platform.
1:44:10>> I find it interesting that in a game
1:44:13that is made for adults. It's rated for
1:44:15adults, rated M for mature. They're
1:44:17implementing this technology, whereas
1:44:19you have a game made for children. Why?
1:44:23Why is something as simple as that
1:44:25something at the company? I it's Roblox
1:44:27is a billion dollar company. I mean they
1:44:29it's not a financial aspect of them to
1:44:31put these in play.
1:44:32>> And as I've talked to some of the
1:44:33technology people in, they said, "Well,
1:44:35that could be a barrier for some of
1:44:36these smaller um platforms and putting
1:44:39this in play,
1:44:41>> but why not Roblox? Why not put this in
1:44:43play for a protection?" It's um I don't
1:44:45know. I find that interesting. Um
1:44:48>> and that again there there and I will
1:44:50give Roblox some credit. There is a lot
1:44:52of things that have come in. This chat
1:44:53uh bot being um a facial um ID that
1:44:57gives a general age is something they
1:44:59put in new. They now have a they're
1:45:01separating the groups to where you are
1:45:05more um whereas before everyone could
1:45:07play the game together. These you're
1:45:08supposed to not be able to play certain
1:45:09games without certain people. Um but
1:45:11again, unfortunately
1:45:13for 50 cents you buy an account and you
1:45:15can have any age you want and then you
1:45:16bypass any of the securities or or
1:45:18measures they've taken to that point. So
1:45:20>> yeah. Um,
1:45:22is there anything else you want to share
1:45:24before you're
1:45:25>> No, I just want to say I really
1:45:27appreciate the time that that you guys
1:45:28have given me and uh to be able to to
1:45:30share my experience and and the
1:45:32knowledge I have about the platform and
1:45:34uh I'll I'll be around here so if any of
1:45:37you guys have any more questions you
1:45:38guys are more than willing to come and
1:45:39ask me. So yeah, appreciate it. I want
1:45:41to personally thank you again for coming
1:45:43out for your um for I'm gonna I'll get
1:45:47you right at the end but um for your
1:45:50willingness for your courage to come out
1:45:53and speak um willing to tell your
1:45:56personal story of what happened to you
1:45:57that's um so many kids are being groomed
1:46:01are seeing things and they're not
1:46:02telling anybody. um for you to take such
1:46:06a massive step to tell your story to
1:46:09continue to move forward under threat of
1:46:11lawsuits for again a billion dollar
1:46:13company.
1:46:14>> Yeah.
1:46:14>> To not back down. Um
1:46:16>> thank you. Thank you for your courage.
1:46:18Thank you for what you're doing. You're
1:46:19saving lives. I mean, that's the short
1:46:21of it, man. are absolutely saving
1:46:23children's lives by continuing to do
1:46:25this and to speak through this and to um
1:46:28and to aggressively look for areas to
1:46:30share this information with because
1:46:32again while it is getting to some, it's
1:46:34not getting to the kids and to the
1:46:35parents that that need to be more aware
1:46:37of what's going on these platforms. So,
1:46:40>> absolutely. Thank you so much. I really
1:46:41appreciate that.
1:46:42>> Absolutely. Uh Representative Thomas, we
1:46:44have one more thing.
1:46:44>> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also
1:46:46want to tell you I've done a lot of
1:46:48these and I have not seen somebody come
1:46:50up and give such in-depth detail of a
1:46:53system and issues that they've
1:46:55experienced during their time. Um, and I
1:46:59just want to again commend you for the
1:47:02fact that um, it sounds like you've
1:47:05spoken very thoroughly. Um, I guess it's
1:47:08safe to say your your experience and
1:47:10your understanding and the stories that
1:47:12you've heard uh about why you've been
1:47:14out doing the things that you do to to
1:47:17bring things to light. So, so thank you
1:47:19for for telling us about everything that
1:47:22you you've seen and and your your
1:47:24perspective on things. So, I appreciate
1:47:26it.
1:47:27>> Thank you. Thank you. All right.
1:47:28>> Thank you very much.
1:47:36>> All right. We'll continue to to move on
1:47:38to our next speaker, um, Lydia Prudent.
1:47:55>> Thank you, Lydia, for being here. If you
1:47:56wouldn't mind just telling us your name,
1:47:58who you're with, and your quick
1:48:00background, and then have that.
1:48:03>> Yeah. Um, good morning everyone. Sorry.
1:48:06Um, my name is Lydia Prudin. I'm from
1:48:08Midland, Georgia. Um, I'm here in my own
1:48:11p personal capacity after doing a lot of
1:48:13undergraduate research with the
1:48:15University of Georgia. And I also have
1:48:17some documents if anyone wants for for
1:48:21future reference.
1:48:27>> Good morning everyone. Again, my name is
1:48:29Lydia. Thank you so much for having me
1:48:31here today to speak to you all about the
1:48:33issues facing the young people in our
1:48:34great state. While we have spoken about
1:48:37important topics um many of which we
1:48:40have all been aware of, I want to
1:48:42highlight another issue and that is
1:48:44political civility and its ties to
1:48:46public safety.
1:48:48I recently graduated from the University
1:48:50of Georgia with a political science
1:48:52degree, having completed many research
1:48:54projects on the topic of modern
1:48:55political polarization, radicalization
1:48:58methodology, and domestic extremism.
1:49:01What I quickly noticed is how online
1:49:04media plays a role in every aspect of
1:49:06radicalization and has driven political
1:49:09polarization, which fosters the
1:49:11environment for violent violent actions
1:49:13to be taken. It has never been more
1:49:16important that we talk to one another.
1:49:19Online platforms have created the
1:49:21perfect place for ideas to be shared and
1:49:23for pe people to learn. But it has led
1:49:26to a deeply polarized society that
1:49:29values ideological purity over nuance
1:49:32and collaboration while breeding
1:49:34extremism in the background.
1:49:37Gen Z and Gen A are actively involved in
1:49:40online spaces and in politics. We are
1:49:43constantly inundated with the idea that
1:49:45everything is political and not caring
1:49:47about every single issue makes you
1:49:49privileged and entitled.
1:49:52It has required us to pick aside and
1:49:54fall in line with everything a group
1:49:56says and does
1:49:59because others will assume we will
1:50:01disagree we disagree with other things
1:50:03where we might not. Online platforms
1:50:06perpetuate the issue by funneling people
1:50:08into specific groups prioritizing
1:50:10engagement over discourse. Without civil
1:50:13debate, people begin to develop an us
1:50:16versus them mentality, which causes our
1:50:18country to be further divided. I'll tell
1:50:21you my story, which echoes so many more
1:50:23in my generation. During middle school
1:50:25and high school, I spent hours and hours
1:50:27and hours on YouTube, Instagram, and Tik
1:50:31Tok, being told of all the hard things
1:50:33people across our nation were facing,
1:50:35and being told that the people and the
1:50:37ideas that they supported were evil. At
1:50:41the same time, I was becoming
1:50:43politically active for the first time
1:50:44and having conversations at my lunch
1:50:46table where we would all parrot the same
1:50:48talking points we had heard online
1:50:50without entertaining the validity of
1:50:52other ways of thinking and other sides
1:50:54of the argument. In fact, we demonized
1:50:57other viewpoints, creating an atmosphere
1:50:59of ideological purity that was created
1:51:01by our almost identical social media
1:51:04feeds. Our identities began to be shaped
1:51:08by the need to be accepted in the fear
1:51:11of being cancelled. We had ventured into
1:51:14ideas not necessarily because we
1:51:15actually aligned with them or we knew
1:51:17the background behind them, but because
1:51:19we felt that that's what we were
1:51:20supposed to do to be accepted.
1:51:23It took me graduating high school,
1:51:25starting my freshman year at UG, and
1:51:27making the active decision that I needed
1:51:29to know the why behind every view I
1:51:31hold. And that led me to realize how
1:51:34social media discourages critical
1:51:36thinking and keeps us from understanding
1:51:38one another while pushing us to be more
1:51:40okay with extreme ways of thinking.
1:51:44I had to actively find ways to be around
1:51:45people who would challenge me through
1:51:47in-person conversation where respect and
1:51:50nuance are the expectation and facts
1:51:52were favored over inflammatory language.
1:51:55Instead, we had to talk to one another.
1:51:58While my story is reminiscent of so many
1:52:00others, that is the that is not the
1:52:03experience of all students across our
1:52:05state or our nation. It is also not the
1:52:07foundation that our school system
1:52:09currently provides.
1:52:11Instead, the division has created space
1:52:14for extreme viewpoints to be valued over
1:52:16the nuance in the center. As you heard
1:52:19in my story, young people can be
1:52:21convinced to try and think about many
1:52:25different things, whether a good or or
1:52:28bad for social validation. Social media
1:52:31has spurred on good challenges such as
1:52:33the trash bag tag which cleaned up
1:52:35communities across our nation um in
1:52:372019. But it has also led to dangerous
1:52:40or even deadly trends found online. We
1:52:43saw that in the dangerous tide pod
1:52:45challenge in 2016, but more recently we
1:52:48have seen that with the blackout and
1:52:50benadil challenges in the past three
1:52:52years.
1:52:53In the same way, young people can be
1:52:55radicalized and made into future violent
1:52:57actors.
1:52:59In 2014, an investigation discovered
1:53:01that Coline had been linked to 21
1:53:04completed and 53 thwarted school
1:53:07targeted attacks. The FBI reported 80
1:53:11copycatted mass attacks by 2014, like
1:53:152024, sorry.
1:53:17What I want to highlight is that many of
1:53:19these perpetrators were not yet born
1:53:21when Coline took place.
1:53:25Many learned about the attack online.
1:53:29Some were even welcomed into online
1:53:30communities that were focused on Coline.
1:53:34In most recent copycat waves, many were
1:53:36radicalized through YouTube
1:53:38recommendations and forums like Discord.
1:53:41Both styles of platforms have provided
1:53:43the space for potential actors to find
1:53:45the information they need to plan,
1:53:47acquire, and carry out an attack
1:53:49alongside the push to go through with
1:53:51it. Social media platforms have long
1:53:54fostered the environment for radical
1:53:56belief systems to be tolerated and
1:53:58celebrated. Platforms like Tik Tok,
1:54:01Instagram, and YouTube feed content to
1:54:03users that will keep them online,
1:54:05swiping, liking, and sharing. All of
1:54:07these are actions that result in users
1:54:10falling into rabbit holes of
1:54:12confirmation bias where information be
1:54:14can be can be quickly catastrophized
1:54:17into misinformation or feed on an
1:54:21individual's fear or mental health or
1:54:23other stressors.
1:54:25Discord and roadblocks which we've
1:54:27talked a lot about today prioritize
1:54:29building communities online which people
1:54:31who with people who have similar
1:54:33interests. While that can be a great
1:54:35thing, extremist groups have also been
1:54:37used to use these forums to their
1:54:39advantage. They use it to recruit and
1:54:41organize through sharing visual content,
1:54:44manifestos, and ideologically pure ideas
1:54:47that glorify past extremists and
1:54:51encourage people to become one
1:54:53themselves.
1:54:5526% of perpetrators of mass violence are
1:54:59motivated by multiple other attacks
1:55:01which mo which motivates others in an
1:55:04unfortunate domino effect. Currently,
1:55:07there's a case in Florida where two
1:55:09girls allegedly plan to murder their
1:55:11classmate who reportedly quote unquote
1:55:13looked like the Sandy Hook shooter in
1:55:15hopes of resurrecting him.
1:55:18The judge has recently decided to keep
1:55:20them in jail before and during the trial
1:55:23to keep them from posting the idea
1:55:25online and encouraging others to follow
1:55:27through.
1:55:29Clearly, our judicial system is already
1:55:32recognizing the threat and sharing of
1:55:34sharing glorifying social media content
1:55:37post um that they pose.
1:55:40Now, we have to take the steps to create
1:55:42legislation that can mitigate that risk
1:55:44and bring back discussion to our
1:55:46society.
1:55:47Between 2013 and 2016, the Combating
1:55:50Terror Terrorism Center at West Point
1:55:53reported 38 federal prosecutions of
1:55:55threats. Between 2017 and 2022, most
1:55:59notably 20 after 2020, there was an
1:56:02increase to 62.
1:56:05While I have addressed one clear avenue
1:56:07of targeted violence, there are many
1:56:10more such as assault, arson, and
1:56:12assassinations, which we've heard a lot
1:56:13about in the past few years.
1:56:16If we continue to actively ignore this
1:56:17issue, we will continue to lose free
1:56:19speech or the free speech value that the
1:56:22United States was founded on. Not
1:56:23because the government is taking it from
1:56:25us, but because we're taking it from one
1:56:27another. We will continue to lose
1:56:29American lives in schools like Evaldi,
1:56:31on campuses like Utah Valley, and in
1:56:34states like Georgia. While the threat of
1:56:37political violence does not look the
1:56:38same across the political spectrum, it
1:56:40is a problem for the entire spectrum,
1:56:42and we can address it in several ways.
1:56:46I have listed quite a uh three proposals
1:56:50on um the document as well. Um but on a
1:56:54personal level, I want to call each
1:56:55person because it does start at the
1:56:57state level. Every issue starts at the
1:56:59state level to talk to one another um
1:57:03and about one another with respect that
1:57:06they are that each person has earned and
1:57:09so that we can return to a solid
1:57:11political environment. Fight through
1:57:13facts, not through extreme language,
1:57:15inflamed arguments, or demonization as
1:57:17we see across the country. And let
1:57:19Georgia be an example of a state that
1:57:21works collaboratively to to find common
1:57:24ground and create strong policy that
1:57:26unites Georgia. Thank you. I'll take any
1:57:28questions you have.
1:57:31>> Thank you very much. That was man, all
1:57:34my questions. What do you think we
1:57:35should do? You got them all listed out.
1:57:36Thank you very much.
1:57:38>> Um, want to represent uh recognize
1:57:40Representative Camp for a question.
1:57:42Thank you. And thank you, Miss Prudent,
1:57:44for being here. This was very
1:57:46insightful. Um, so the the them and they
1:57:51versus me and mine. Um, the other
1:57:54aspect, I'm glad you brought that out
1:57:56because I think that's an important
1:57:58discussion for us to have. Um, whenever
1:58:00we decide we have an opponent, um,
1:58:03whether it's a real opponent or
1:58:05perceived, we want to make them
1:58:07different than us in some way.
1:58:10Excuse
1:58:12me. So, unfortunately, our society seems
1:58:14to have decided that if you don't agree
1:58:16with me 100%, then you're my enemy.
1:58:20>> Yeah.
1:58:20>> Um, and going back to an important thing
1:58:23on your recommendations. Thank you for
1:58:25listing those so succinctly. I think the
1:58:27credible sourcing is really the key to
1:58:30this whole thing. Absolutely. Because
1:58:32oftent times I'll have people tell me
1:58:34they saw something on social media or
1:58:36YouTube and they act like it's fact and
1:58:39no one double checked it and I'll say,
1:58:42"Well, where did where did they get
1:58:43their information from?" "Well, I don't
1:58:44know, but I saw the video."
1:58:46>> So, um I think a call to action on the
1:58:51credible sourcing is important. Um, and
1:58:53I'm the mom of a double dog, so I know
1:58:56good and well that, um, scholarly and
1:58:58academic references are highly important
1:59:00in our university system. Um, so in the
1:59:04credible sourcing, what do you see? I
1:59:06know you've got presenting the argument
1:59:07in a counter-argument, so a debate.
1:59:09Yeah.
1:59:09>> But what are some other ways do you
1:59:11think that the credible sourcing could
1:59:13be something that we could move forward
1:59:15as an action?
1:59:17>> Yes. So there are platforms that are
1:59:19being created such as um ground news
1:59:21that I use every day to find my news and
1:59:24that presents both sides of every
1:59:26argument whether it's um a
1:59:30reproductive um conversation like
1:59:33pro-life versus pro-choice argument. if
1:59:35there's an article that's coming up like
1:59:37a Supreme Court decision coming up about
1:59:39it or something coming up a they make a
1:59:43post that shows just the facts and then
1:59:45it shows how it is being covered by the
1:59:47media. So it shows maybe 60% of it is
1:59:51being covered by sources that are on the
1:59:53right side of the spectrum while the
1:59:55half is the other side is being um
1:59:57covered by the left or even how much is
2:00:00being covered by the center. It also
2:00:01gives you links to be able to see the
2:00:03articles themselves and allows you to
2:00:06really understand how these things are
2:00:08being covered, the language that is
2:00:09being used so that you can form your own
2:00:10opinions but have real facts. Um, I also
2:00:13use straight arrow news which does just
2:00:15report exactly the facts as well. Um,
2:00:19and they both and straight arrow news
2:00:22also shows you how it fits into
2:00:24historical context and shows you how
2:00:27this fits into the moment that we're in
2:00:29currently as well. So, I use those
2:00:32sources for things that are going on
2:00:33every day. Um, but another big part of
2:00:36it is addressing literacy. um whether
2:00:39it's um the ability to actual actually
2:00:42read, but also the ability to take apart
2:00:45what students are reading um and really
2:00:48understand and analyze what is being
2:00:50told to them. Um and deciding what they
2:00:53believe based on that as of um as
2:00:56opposed to um just being fed what
2:00:59they're supposed to believe and being
2:01:01told that this is what you're supposed
2:01:02to say all the time and if you don't,
2:01:04you're wrong.
2:01:08Thank you so much. Thank you for being
2:01:09here.
2:01:10>> Thank you.
2:01:11>> Uh Representative Glaze.
2:01:15>> Well, Lydia to a Lydia, thank you so
2:01:18much for um ringing this thoughtful um
2:01:23idea of responsibility on um political
2:01:28um members of our body in the state of
2:01:32Georgia.
2:01:34Yes, for sure.
2:01:35um rad polarization and rationalizing
2:01:40this extreme views and not willing to
2:01:42listen to others does cause violence
2:01:46online. It proliferates it. I was here
2:01:49three weeks um in the Georgia General
2:01:52Assembly and experienced this level of
2:01:56threat and extremism because I had a
2:01:58different view about a bill um and know
2:02:02how bad it was. Um, if I had not been
2:02:06mature enough and in this field long
2:02:09enough, I would have really probably
2:02:11left the general assembly after the
2:02:14first session. So, thank you. I think
2:02:17there should be codes of civility in
2:02:20which I believe inside of the house
2:02:23um our leader um John Burns definitely
2:02:29calls for that. And I think for your
2:02:33representatives and your senators, we
2:02:35should be called to the carpet when we
2:02:38do not display this civility that is
2:02:42necessary to have proper discourse so
2:02:45that we can get to decisions that really
2:02:48affect the people that we say we love
2:02:51and support um Georgians every day in
2:02:54the work that we do. Thank you for
2:02:56calling us to this level of
2:02:59accountability. Second, as a former
2:03:02educator, I absolutely believe that our
2:03:05civics um should include debate.
2:03:10So when you learn to debate, you also
2:03:13learn to research. And when you learn to
2:03:16research, you also learn not to
2:03:19radicalize
2:03:21your view or somebody else's view. So I
2:03:24do think that we can take that back.
2:03:26Thank you for um presenting not just the
2:03:29problem but some solutions.
2:03:35>> Thank you very much. Um I'll add to that
2:03:38too. I believe in the old saying, the
2:03:39Lord gave me two ears and one mouth. So
2:03:41you should listen twice as much as you
2:03:42talk. I think we've lost the um the
2:03:46ability to listen to understand. We
2:03:48listen to combat. We listen to make our
2:03:50argument. Um and that's not listening.
2:03:53It's just gathering enough so that you
2:03:54can but to truly listen to hear the
2:03:57other side and not just hear what
2:03:59they're saying but try to hear where
2:04:00they're coming from as well. I think
2:04:01that changes the dynamic and changes the
2:04:03conversation. So thank you very much.
2:04:06Does anybody else have any questions?
2:04:08Represent phase one.
2:04:17>> Thank you Mr. Chair and thank you for
2:04:19your presentation. So appreciate it. I
2:04:21just wanted to I agree with my
2:04:23colleagues here on what was said and I
2:04:27found when I came into the Georgia
2:04:29General John Assembly that we have to
2:04:32build relationships
2:04:34on both sides of the aisle. We can't get
2:04:37anything done for our constituents
2:04:40unless we build those relationships,
2:04:43unless we listen to one another. I know
2:04:46we this past session, not the special
2:04:48session, but the session, we worked so
2:04:51closely together on a bill, human
2:04:53trafficking,
2:04:55>> which I'm passionate about. We worked
2:04:57together. We looked at the language and
2:04:59we moved forward and that did get
2:05:02across, I'm sorry, across the finish
2:05:04line. And so that's what we have to look
2:05:07at. And it doesn't matter who gets the
2:05:09credit, who's benefit.
2:05:12>> And that's what we have to look at
2:05:14together to make sure we were
2:05:17representing our constituents. And just
2:05:19like that, we have to look at it that
2:05:22way to this too
2:05:24>> because our children are being abused.
2:05:27Our children are being taken and we have
2:05:29to stand up together to find a solution.
2:05:33So thank you.
2:05:38Thank you so much for presenting. Thank
2:05:40you for coming and sharing your story.
2:05:41Thank you.
2:05:47All right. Up next, uh we have Lauren
2:05:50James
2:05:53and colleagues. Um we are going to take
2:05:57we're gonna let y'all go. Uh I think at
2:05:5812 o'clock we'll take a quick 30 minute
2:06:00lunch break and then come back to hear
2:06:02the rest of the speakers. So,
2:06:06>> thank you very much for being here.
2:06:10>> Thank you. Good morning. Uh, first of
2:06:12all, thank you, Representative Clifton,
2:06:14for hosting this event. I'm honored to
2:06:16be here. Uh my name is Lauren James and
2:06:19I'm one of the co-leaders of the Georgia
2:06:21chapter of the Distraction Free Schools
2:06:23Policy Project and we are a nonpartisan
2:06:26group of volunteer advocates that are
2:06:29advocating for state laws to regulate
2:06:32the use of phones, social media, and
2:06:35educational technology in schools. And I
2:06:37also want to thank all of you for voting
2:06:38for the phone bans uh in this past
2:06:40session. We really appreciate that. Uh,
2:06:43six weeks ago, we launched our letter of
2:06:46support in the state of Georgia. And in
2:06:48the six weeks, we have collected 550
2:06:50signatures from parents across the state
2:06:53in 43 different cities and 27 school
2:06:56districts. And we are just getting
2:06:58started. Uh, we have model bills on our
2:07:01website. So to go ahead and answer your
2:07:03question about what we propose, uh, what
2:07:06solutions we propose, we have a detailed
2:07:08information of model bills on our
2:07:10website. We will hand out uh that
2:07:12website address at the end. So I want to
2:07:15begin with a scenario. I want you guys
2:07:17to imagine that there's a large TV
2:07:19screen behind me and up on the screen
2:07:21it's playing your favorite TV show. Then
2:07:24it quickly flips to a World Cup game.
2:07:26Then it fliply quickly flips to a
2:07:28violent scene, then a sexually explicit
2:07:31scene, then kids playing video games.
2:07:34That'd probably be pretty distracting,
2:07:36right? It would be hard to concentrate
2:07:38on what I'm talking about.
2:07:40Now, I want you to imagine that I was
2:07:42the one who put that up on the screen
2:07:44before I started talking. Now, not only
2:07:47would you be distracted, it'd be hard to
2:07:50concentrate on what I'm saying, but you
2:07:51also might be confused as to if I even
2:07:53want you to focus on what I'm saying,
2:07:55right? Unfortunately, this type of
2:07:58scenario is happening in Georgia schools
2:08:01every day where 92% of kids attend
2:08:05public school. Today I want to
2:08:08specifically talk about the harms of
2:08:09YouTube in school. But before I do, I
2:08:12want to touch on just some of the
2:08:13general uh issues with internet
2:08:16connected devices in schools. First of
2:08:19all, screens harm reading comprehension.
2:08:22So studies show that people generally
2:08:25comprehend better when they're reading
2:08:26from a book or a piece of paper compared
2:08:29to a screen, particularly when they are
2:08:32trying to learn something from that
2:08:34reading and they're not just reading for
2:08:35fun. And the reason why is because the
2:08:38words on a page occupy a specific spot
2:08:42which creates a mental map of the
2:08:44information that you are reading.
2:08:46Whereas if you read on a screen and
2:08:47you're scrolling, that word that you
2:08:49just read that you're trying to learn
2:08:51moves continuously when you are
2:08:53scrolling. You might remember uh as a
2:08:56kid in school if you were taking an
2:08:58exam, you were trying to recall some
2:09:00information, you might not remember the
2:09:02exact fact, but you know where you read
2:09:04it on the page. That's important for
2:09:06reading comprehension. One foresight
2:09:08county parent wrote to us and said, "My
2:09:11children have never had a textbook ever,
2:09:14and they are finishing sixth and seventh
2:09:16grade.
2:09:18Too much screen use impacts handwriting
2:09:20and memory retention. Research suggests
2:09:23that writing by hand is better than
2:09:25typing for widespread brain connectivity
2:09:27and conceptual learning, especially when
2:09:30taking notes on new material.
2:09:33In our survey, parents across many
2:09:34school districts like Cherokee, Dicab,
2:09:37Fulton, and Brian counties describe
2:09:40their child's handwriting as deplorable,
2:09:43atrocious, terrible, horrible, and could
2:09:46be so much better because they do not
2:09:48spend enough time writing in schools and
2:09:51they type instead.
2:09:54Screens also induce multitasking and a
2:09:56decreased ability to focus. Studies show
2:09:59using screens like laptops or tablets
2:10:00during class is associated with frequent
2:10:02multitasking and lower test performance.
2:10:06Studies also show that even a student
2:10:08sitting next to someone else that is
2:10:12multitasking decreases their test
2:10:15performance.
2:10:16An Atlanta public schools parent wrote
2:10:18to us saying, "My my son's attention
2:10:21span is absolute garbage because there
2:10:24are too many screens. He's not learning
2:10:27anything. A Cobb County parent said, "As
2:10:30a school psychologist and a parent, I
2:10:33see the impact of increased screen use
2:10:35on children's handwriting, stamina for
2:10:37handwritten tasks, spelling, attention
2:10:41span, empathy, social skills, eye
2:10:43contact, and so much more.
2:10:47Screens provide easy access for students
2:10:49to cheat. Studies show cheating is more
2:10:52difficult to detect and control in
2:10:54online exams. A Georgia teacher wrote to
2:10:57us saying, "Cheating is everywhere all
2:11:00the time. Technology aids this. No
2:11:03educational data is accurate when
2:11:06students cheat on everything. If we want
2:11:09to know if students are learning, we
2:11:11can't give them the tools to outsource
2:11:14every educational task."
2:11:17Screens also negatively impact physical
2:11:19health. Studies show an increase in
2:11:20screen time exposure is associated with
2:11:22the increased odds of nearsightedness.
2:11:25A Franklin County parent wrote to us,
2:11:27"My son needed glasses due to being on
2:11:29the Chromebook all day at school." The
2:11:32doctor even confirmed this. A Kawita
2:11:34County parent wrote, "My child needed
2:11:36glasses." Studies also show teens
2:11:39engaging in screenbased activities more
2:11:42than two hours per day experience a
2:11:44decrease in sleep. that a Cab County
2:11:46parent wrote us, "When my daughter has
2:11:49homework on, she often needs to complete
2:11:52a great amount of work and very little
2:11:54time, and that means she ends up
2:11:56spending a long time in front of the
2:11:58screen late at night because her
2:12:00homework is on the screen. The stress
2:12:02and the screen disrupt her sleep." A
2:12:05Decatur City School's parent wrote us
2:12:08their child experiences poor sleep
2:12:09patterns after screen time.
2:12:12Screens also create data privacy and
2:12:15security concerns. A study showed that
2:12:1896%
2:12:19of K through2 applications transmit
2:12:22student data to third parties for
2:12:25advertisements and analytics. A Fulton
2:12:28County parent wrote us, I work in data
2:12:30privacy. The type of divid devices
2:12:32schools tend to use like Chrome
2:12:34Chromebooks are not even the most secure
2:12:36option, but they're the most convenient.
2:12:38There may be a lack of awareness of
2:12:40privacy practices and policy changes as
2:12:43it relates to these device manufacturers
2:12:45that could impact the privacy of these
2:12:48children without anyone realizing it.
2:12:52The overuse of screens in our schools in
2:12:55Georgia is a problem. But today I want
2:12:57to do a deeper dive on YouTube in
2:12:59schools specifically.
2:13:02Does YouTube have goals of educating our
2:13:04youth? While some team members at
2:13:07YouTube may have pure intentions, others
2:13:10certainly do not. Investigations by the
2:13:13New York Times, the Wall Street Journal,
2:13:15and NBC News revealed that Google
2:13:17employees viewed schools as a way to
2:13:20source long-term customers and quote
2:13:24onboard kids into Google's ecosystem.
2:13:27One 2015 memo specifically showed that
2:13:31YouTube employees noted that their site
2:13:33their site traffic was much higher on
2:13:36the weekends than it was on the week
2:13:38days. And they mentioned that quote
2:13:41increasing usage in schools Monday
2:13:44through Friday could decrease this gap.
2:13:47YouTube was aware via this investigation
2:13:51that its algorithm would recommend
2:13:53videos to students during school that
2:13:56had nothing to do with their lessons,
2:13:58including addictive gaming and sexually
2:14:01graphic content. I now want to share
2:14:04more parent testimonials from around the
2:14:07state specifically about YouTube. In
2:14:10Atlanta public schools, parents wrote to
2:14:12us, "My prek student that is 4 years old
2:14:18told me about things he watched on
2:14:20YouTube during the school day that I
2:14:22would not have approved of if asked
2:14:25ahead of time." Another parent said in
2:14:27prek and kindergarten the use of you
2:14:30they use YouTube to read stories and to
2:14:34provide movement related quote brain
2:14:36breaks so that my child is asking for
2:14:39certain YouTube channels when they get
2:14:41home. Another parent wrote our
2:14:44afterchool program includes screen time
2:14:47where students are given full access to
2:14:50YouTube. We were not able to get a clear
2:14:52picture of what the students were
2:14:54allowed to watch or who was monitoring.
2:14:58Another parent wrote, "My daughter is in
2:15:00sixth grade and her focus has been
2:15:02severely impacted this year with the
2:15:04overwhelming amount of homework and
2:15:07access to addictive platforms like
2:15:09YouTube. It has been a big struggle."
2:15:12A Buford City Schools parent wrote us,
2:15:15"My seventh grader uses her assigned
2:15:18Chromebook Chromebook to circumvent our
2:15:21household block on YouTube. She can
2:15:24access it freely through her school
2:15:25computer and 99% of the time is using it
2:15:28to watch Brain Rot or fanedit short
2:15:31videos. My child is 100% focused on
2:15:34using the schoolisssued Chromebook as a
2:15:36social and entertainment tool. And I
2:15:38have observed zero educational value
2:15:41from having it. She is unable to
2:15:43reference learned material in books. She
2:15:45struggles to maintain any level of focus
2:15:47for studying. And we have a constant
2:15:50daily battle over access to the
2:15:52Chromebook where a parent has to sit
2:15:54beside her because the siren song of
2:15:57YouTube and online games pulls her away
2:16:00from any actual work extremely fast. It
2:16:03is tantamount to putting heroin in front
2:16:05of an opioid addict and telling them
2:16:08they will know it's there, but they must
2:16:10resist the temptation. We are gutting an
2:16:12entire generation's ability to learn, to
2:16:15retain, to think deeply, to think
2:16:17creatively. I see it in my daughter and
2:16:19I see it in her friends. And as a
2:16:21parent, I feel helpless and unable to
2:16:23help my child escape from an abject
2:16:26failure of our educational institutions.
2:16:28If they were learning to code, learning
2:16:30to build agentic AI models, or even
2:16:33learning to properly type, that would be
2:16:36one thing. But they are doing none of
2:16:38that. They are learning how to use a
2:16:40device to stay entertained and
2:16:41experience zero friction. We must change
2:16:44course. A Cobb County parent said, "My
2:16:47son came across porn on his school
2:16:50laptop in middle school." A Dicab County
2:16:54parent said, "My son is seven and comes
2:16:57home from school talking about videos he
2:16:59saw on YouTube and fun games he played
2:17:01on some Chromebook app." He talks about
2:17:04how he can't wait to go back to school
2:17:06tomorrow so he can continue his video
2:17:09game. I think it is inappropriate for my
2:17:12child to be exposed to addictive and
2:17:14brain screen time when he should be
2:17:17learning. Shouldn't he be bringing home
2:17:19drawings and crafts he did in his free
2:17:21time or songs he learned or fun clapping
2:17:25games or whatever instead? I worry what
2:17:28skills and experiences is he missing out
2:17:30on in place of getting to spend time
2:17:33watching stupid YouTube videos. It makes
2:17:35me so mad. Another Dicab County parent.
2:17:38At least one kid in my daughter's class
2:17:41managed to find a way to access it
2:17:44access inappropriate videos. I'm
2:17:46assuming it was porn on his Chromebook.
2:17:49One Fulton County parent said
2:17:53they are upset by the exposure to
2:17:54YouTube that they do not allow in their
2:17:56home. It made me need to reconsider my
2:18:00own ban and it forced me to explain
2:18:02topics to my kindergartenner that I was
2:18:05not ready to.
2:18:07For Scythe County parents say constant
2:18:10access to games that the school hasn't
2:18:13blocked. Use of YouTube on the school
2:18:15computer. My child has access explicit
2:18:18content on school devices and apps. The
2:18:21county has provided a tool where parents
2:18:24can monitor and put rules in place.
2:18:26However, everything that we put
2:18:29boundaries on has impacted a school
2:18:31assignment or is required from a teacher
2:18:34and so we have to undo the parental
2:18:36block. My kids complain that the
2:18:38teachers just show videos and then
2:18:40expect them to be able to do it. My
2:18:43kindergartenner
2:18:44recites ads that he's often seen on the
2:18:49YouTube videos shown in class.
2:18:52Another Foresight County parent said,
2:18:54"Protecting kids from harmful,
2:18:56inappropriate content online is
2:18:58incredibly hard and nearly impossible.
2:19:01They are being targeted with violent and
2:19:03sexual material. It is sick. It's
2:19:06important that we keep them safe." Now
2:19:08I'm going to turn it over to my co-lead
2:19:10Joanna Houston to share her personal
2:19:12story with you too.
2:19:20Thank you Lauren
2:19:22and thank you Chairman Clifton and
2:19:25members of the committee for this
2:19:26opportunity to speak to you today.
2:19:28My name is Joanna Houston and as Lauren
2:19:31mentioned I co-lead the Georgia chapter
2:19:34of distractionf free schools policy
2:19:36project and I am joining you today from
2:19:40Brian County as a concerned mother. I
2:19:43was actually going to attend the
2:19:45forthcoming meeting in October that's
2:19:47closer to Savannah, but I didn't want to
2:19:49miss this opportunity to speak to you
2:19:51all sooner since this is such a
2:19:54concerning topic for all of us. and I'
2:19:56I've really enjoyed the discussions
2:19:57we've been having thus far today. I've
2:19:59learned a great deal, especially about
2:20:02roadblocks. Um, anyhow, I will I will
2:20:06continue. Um, having spent most of my
2:20:09career in public health as an OSHA
2:20:12compliance officer, a naval medical
2:20:14services corps officer, and civil
2:20:16service industrial hygienist. I also
2:20:19come here before you as a professional
2:20:22concerned about the harmful digital
2:20:24exposures to which our children are
2:20:26being subjected every day, not only at
2:20:28home and in their social lives, but at
2:20:30school.
2:20:32In an effort to shed light on what is
2:20:34happening within the institutional walls
2:20:37of far too many public schools within
2:20:39Georgia and across the country, I'd like
2:20:41to share a discovery I made earlier this
2:20:44year while examining my son's school
2:20:47device usage. Since then, I have shared
2:20:50our story with a few national outlets.
2:20:52Most recently, as part of Jennifer
2:20:54Valentino Devry's June 4th New York
2:20:56Times article or her investigation into
2:20:59how technology companies have targeted
2:21:01students in schools.
2:21:04In January, while logged into my son's
2:21:06schoolisssued Google account, I located
2:21:08and exported his YouTube watch history.
2:21:12He was 11 years old and in sixth grade
2:21:15at the time. What I found shocked me.
2:21:20Over approximately six months of
2:21:21available history data
2:21:24spanning from the final week of fifth
2:21:26grade, which was in May of 2025,
2:21:29until January 26, my son had accessed
2:21:32more than 1,800 YouTube videos. During
2:21:35instructional hours from his
2:21:36schoolisssued device, this was a
2:21:38Chromebook.
2:21:40After pulling metadata from YouTube to
2:21:43identify each URL and cross-referencing
2:21:46viewing timestamps with his bell
2:21:48schedule, I was able to develop a more
2:21:50clarifying yet deeply concerning picture
2:21:53of how his average school day was being
2:21:56spent.
2:21:57Sports videos, explicit music videos,
2:22:01algorithm-driven content, or as we've
2:22:03commonly heard here today, brain rot.
2:22:06Videos of people playing Grand Theft
2:22:08Auto. Approximately 98% of the video
2:22:11titles had no apparent educational value
2:22:14and could not be connected to any
2:22:16classroom lesson.
2:22:18To help illustrate these findings, I've
2:22:20included some figures in the documents.
2:22:23We'll be disseminating those after um
2:22:25our our talk concludes,
2:22:28but these include uh a culmination of
2:22:30the videos accessed during each class
2:22:32period during this time frame and a
2:22:34breakdown of the video content
2:22:36categories.
2:22:39Naturally, I brought these findings to
2:22:40the attention of school administrators
2:22:42and eventually district leadership,
2:22:45including both the superintendent at the
2:22:47time and the IT director. However,
2:22:49despite repeatedly expressing my
2:22:51concerns and explicitly uh requesting
2:22:54that YouTube be blocked on my son's
2:22:56school device beginning in as early as
2:22:59February, no action has been taken to
2:23:02date, and YouTube is still widely
2:23:03accessible within the district.
2:23:07At no point before or during the school
2:23:09year was I informed by any school
2:23:12official or teacher that the same
2:23:14version of YouTube that is widely
2:23:16accessible
2:23:18um to adult consumers would be
2:23:21accessible on every student device
2:23:23during the school day. Although the
2:23:25district uses monitoring software
2:23:27software called linewise to track
2:23:29student act uh device activity, parents
2:23:31are provided with no visibility into
2:23:33that activity. There is no reporting
2:23:35feature turned on, even though that is
2:23:37available at no cost to the district. It
2:23:40was only because of my background in
2:23:42data analysis and comfortability with
2:23:44spreadsheets that I was able to locate,
2:23:46export, and analyze my son's data at
2:23:48all, a process that still took several
2:23:50days to complete.
2:23:53Now I want to step back for a moment to
2:23:55address what I believe is really the
2:23:57larger issue at play because this
2:23:59extends well beyond YouTube or any
2:24:02particular social media platform which I
2:24:04know has been discussed greatly today
2:24:06and will further be discussed.
2:24:09We are asking our children to navigate
2:24:12their entire academic lives on internet
2:24:15connected devices.
2:24:17their assignments, their readings, their
2:24:19assessments, their communication with
2:24:21teachers, all of it runs through a
2:24:24single device that also happens to be a
2:24:26portal to one of the most sophisticated
2:24:28attention capture systems ever built. We
2:24:32are handing kids devices built for
2:24:34adults, expecting them to use them
2:24:37solely for school work, while these same
2:24:40devices have been engineered at every
2:24:41level to pull them away from it.
2:24:44autoplay, algorithmic recommendations,
2:24:46infinite scroll, notification systems
2:24:49designed by some of the most
2:24:50well-resourced companies in the world to
2:24:53maximize engagement.
2:24:55Because after all, we should remember
2:24:57functionally a Chromebook or an iPad
2:25:00provides many of the exact same
2:25:02opportunities for distraction as a
2:25:05smartphone.
2:25:07Meanwhile, districts continue to spend
2:25:09significant budgetary resources on
2:25:12monitoring and filtering software such
2:25:13as GoG Guardian, Securely, Light Speed,
2:25:16Linewise, like I mentioned earlier,
2:25:18adding yet another layer of extractive
2:25:21surveillance to an ecosystem that
2:25:23remains fundamentally dependent on
2:25:25keeping students engaged with screens.
2:25:28At my son's school, many middle
2:25:30schoolers already know how to circumvent
2:25:31district filtering systems. New proxy
2:25:34interstellar sites are routinely created
2:25:37and shared among students, making
2:25:39enforcement a perpetual game of
2:25:40whack-a-ole.
2:25:43Lauren used the analogy of a television
2:25:45playing behind her uh while she while
2:25:48she speaks. I'd like to take that a step
2:25:50further. Imagine it's not just a TV.
2:25:53Imagine it's a TV that learns what you
2:25:54like. That starts playing the next thing
2:25:57before you've even finished the last
2:25:59one. And that gets better at keeping you
2:26:01watching every single time you sit down.
2:26:04That is what many parents place in their
2:26:07children children's hands when they do
2:26:09give them smartphones. But it is also in
2:26:12many respects what schools across
2:26:14Georgia and across the country place on
2:26:16students desks through onetoone internet
2:26:18connected devices.
2:26:21From a legal standpoint, I would also
2:26:23note that YouTube is classified by
2:26:25Google as an additional service under
2:26:27Google Workspace for Education.
2:26:30Google's policies state that schools are
2:26:32responsible for obtaining parental
2:26:34consent required under applicable law
2:26:36before allowing students to access such
2:26:39services. My son had access to YouTube
2:26:42before his 13th birthday. No informed
2:26:44consent regarding YouTube access was
2:26:46ever presented to me, and no one
2:26:48requested my permission.
2:26:51In closing, I want to be clear about
2:26:52what YouTube is. Earlier this year, as
2:26:55many of you are aware, a Los Angeles
2:26:57jury found that YouTube's design
2:26:59contributed to a young user's addiction
2:27:01and further found that YouTube acted
2:27:03with malice, oppression, or fraud. While
2:27:06YouTube has maintained that it should
2:27:08not be classified as social media, the
2:27:10practical reality is that it functions
2:27:13as one for millions of children. When a
2:27:16school district provides students with
2:27:17unrestricted access to YouTube during
2:27:19instructional time, particularly without
2:27:22a parents knowledge or con informed
2:27:24consent, it is not merely providing an
2:27:27educational resource. It is providing
2:27:29access to a pro a platform whose design
2:27:32has been scrutinized in court and whose
2:27:35engagement mechanisms are specifically
2:27:37engineered to maximize user attention.
2:27:41While these findings are certainly
2:27:42concerning, the tide is beginning to
2:27:44turn nationwide, and there is reason for
2:27:47hope. More than 1.7 million students
2:27:50attend Georgia's public schools, and
2:27:52they deserve distraction-free
2:27:53environments that put put learning,
2:27:55safety, and well-being first. We stand
2:27:58ready to partner with you and help make
2:27:59that vision a reality across Georgia.
2:28:02Thank you for the opportunity to speak
2:28:04before the committee and happy to take
2:28:06your questions, both Laura and I.
2:28:09Thank you so much for sharing and
2:28:11telling us your story. Um that's um very
2:28:15very enlightening and in the access that
2:28:17the kids have. So is there I know
2:28:20there's YouTube kids and then there's
2:28:22YouTube at the younger age or is it
2:28:24YouTube Kids they're allowing them on or
2:28:26is it the full
2:28:27>> it's it's the full YouTube.
2:28:29>> Okay. And that was what I was underating
2:28:32operating under the impression of for
2:28:34most of this time too was that it was
2:28:36something akin to YouTube kids or
2:28:38straight up YouTube kids but it's just
2:28:41it's just YouTube.
2:28:42>> Yeah, even YouTube kids um you know we
2:28:45we have again have young kids and we
2:28:47very limited on what we let them watch
2:28:50and we try to be in the room so when the
2:28:51show ends they go to the next one but I
2:28:53mean we've walked in stuff they're
2:28:54watching it's like I mean that's it's
2:28:56not what we're going to watch today and
2:28:57so um yeah it's Um, thank you. Thank you
2:29:01again for sharing. Anybody?
2:29:04Yes,
2:29:06Representative Camp.
2:29:07>> Hi. Thank you so much for being here.
2:29:09That is um quite startling the volume of
2:29:12YouTube videos your son watched and um I
2:29:16certainly appreciated all the
2:29:17information shared. Um you were talking
2:29:19about them accessing YouTube. Now, I
2:29:22know for me to access YouTube, I have to
2:29:25have an account and it's linked to my
2:29:27Google email address. How are these kids
2:29:30accessing
2:29:32the algorithm so that their information
2:29:35is perpetuated and they can come back
2:29:37and and rewatch a video if they don't
2:29:39have an account?
2:29:40>> They do have an account.
2:29:42>> How do they have an account?
2:29:43>> Through the school. So they have a
2:29:45Google email address through the school
2:29:47which enables them to have a Google
2:29:49account which means that someone had to
2:29:51sign them up for YouTube.
2:29:55>> Correct. This was
2:29:58again no no consent was given. was.
2:30:01>> So from your observation,
2:30:04>> it appears that when they get the Google
2:30:06email address, which is needed for
2:30:08school correspondence,
2:30:10>> then in some meets and manners, they're
2:30:13being signed up for YouTube. Is there
2:30:15any other platform that you're aware
2:30:16they're being signed up for or your
2:30:18child utilized without your permission?
2:30:20>> Multiple.
2:30:23>> All right. Um
2:30:26well, I guess we might need that list at
2:30:28some point.
2:30:29Maybe not today, but I think that I
2:30:32think that would be very helpful. Um,
2:30:34especially since you did not give
2:30:35explicit permission for your child to
2:30:38have access to that. Thank you. Thank
2:30:40you for being here and sharing your
2:30:41story and thank you for your
2:30:42information.
2:30:50>> I'm remiss that uh Representative Thomas
2:30:53couldn't be here. He um had a prior
2:30:54engagement to testify at another
2:30:56committee meeting. Um however part of
2:30:59this committee we have created a
2:31:00subcommittee that is specifically for
2:31:03what y'all are talking about. Um in fact
2:31:07um let's see it's um we're creating a
2:31:10subcommittee on the effects of screen
2:31:11time on literacy. So um I will connect
2:31:14y'all with Representative Thomas as
2:31:16well. I know he would have loved to hear
2:31:18that y'all's story. I believe he's going
2:31:20to have his meeting down in Savannah.
2:31:22Um, and we'd love to have y'all be a
2:31:24part of that and to continue to tell
2:31:25your story. Um, to get that out there.
2:31:27So, thank you so much for coming and
2:31:29y'all sharing.
2:31:30>> Thank you.
2:31:30>> Thank you very much.
2:31:36>> All right. At this point, it's 12:00.
2:31:38We'll take a quick Let's go with just 30
2:31:40minutes if that's all right with
2:31:41everybody. Um, we do have some box
2:31:43lunches upstairs. Um, I don't know
2:31:46exactly where upstairs, but I'm sure we
2:31:48can. We're all smart adults. We can
2:31:49figure it out. So, we'll recess for
2:31:51about 30 minutes and we'll come back and
2:31:53continue to hear from our presenters.
2:31:55Thank you.
3:18:52I'm
3:18:54doing great.
3:18:55>> Thank you.
3:18:57>> Thank you.
3:18:59Thank you for being here.
3:19:04>> Thank you. Thank you very much.
3:19:09>> Alrighty. I think we're going to get
3:19:11this thing started again.
3:19:14Bever's ready.
3:19:20We'll go ahead and reconvene this
3:19:21committee. Thank y'all for giving us
3:19:23quick lunch break. Get some good
3:19:24nutrition in us so we can uh continue to
3:19:26hear from some good speakers. Um we're
3:19:29going to change it up again a little.
3:19:30I'm uh gonna move things around and um
3:19:35we'd like to have Kyle come and speak
3:19:37next. So Kyle, if you will.
3:19:41put you on the spot and I'll give you
3:19:43any notice at all.
3:19:47>> Just give us your name, background, and
3:19:49>> absolutely floor is
3:19:50>> yours. Yes, absolutely. Yep. My name is
3:19:52Dr. Kyle Rocky, and I'm a psychologist.
3:19:54I'm practicing in Blue Ridge, uh,
3:19:56Georgia. Um, and I'd like to thank you,
3:19:58chairman, for having me. Um, and, uh,
3:20:01Representative Johnny Chastain invited
3:20:03me down here to talk. So, I'm I'm
3:20:04delighted to be here, and I appreciate
3:20:06the opportunity. Um I do a lot of things
3:20:09in my role as a psychologist of course
3:20:12chiefly is is speaking to to children um
3:20:15adolesccents and families and that's
3:20:17sort of my specialty. Um I've been
3:20:19practicing for 20 years now. Uh started
3:20:22out started out uh you know in in the
3:20:26broader field of mental health but kind
3:20:27of zeroed in on on children, adolescence
3:20:29and families. Um and now operate a group
3:20:32practice in Blige. um recently have
3:20:34started a farm program which uh some
3:20:37people might be interested in. But it's
3:20:38the basic idea of that is getting kids
3:20:41helping kids and families get back sort
3:20:43of to nature, get back to um the the
3:20:45healing environment that nature
3:20:47provides. Uh unplugging from our phones,
3:20:50getting outside, interacting with
3:20:51animals through animal assisted therapy,
3:20:53um and doing some other things like
3:20:54hiking on hiking trails that we have and
3:20:56things like that. my my love over the
3:20:59last three years. Um, so I've sort of
3:21:01been able to marry um, you know, my love
3:21:04for psychology and helping people with
3:21:06also the power of nature and um, and the
3:21:08in our physical environment and and I've
3:21:10really seen great results, promising
3:21:12results with that and it does, you know,
3:21:14definitely speaks a little bit to what
3:21:16we're talking about today. Um, but this
3:21:18is a very broad topic. So I really
3:21:20appreciate uh, Representative Chastain
3:21:22when he told me that I have four hours
3:21:23today.
3:21:26Just kidding. Uh, so I'm going to keep
3:21:27I'm going just try to keep it somewhat
3:21:28short. Um, and you guys I I'm just
3:21:32impressed by the the the wealth of
3:21:34information um that I've heard today um
3:21:36from a variety of people. And so some of
3:21:38these things you guys have already
3:21:39spoken about.
3:21:41I will say in addition to being a
3:21:42psychologist, I have a 14-year-old
3:21:44daughter. Um, and so these these topics
3:21:47are very, you know, real to me. Um and I
3:21:50feel you know very invested in and
3:21:52appreciative that we're that you guys
3:21:54and all of us are doing something about
3:21:55this problem. Um
3:21:58so as you know and and I think you know
3:22:01most of us in this room know the online
3:22:03platforms really exploded you know in
3:22:05the 2000s. Um we did have some
3:22:08legislation some national legislation um
3:22:10that essentially to me it's kind of like
3:22:13it's kind of like giving kids a driver's
3:22:14license. You know that not 16 but
3:22:17they're they're 13 and they can go out
3:22:18and drive on their own. Now who in their
3:22:20right mind would do that? Um not me. Uh
3:22:23and I don't think many of us would do
3:22:25that with our kids. Unfortunately, kids
3:22:27now, you know, in our in our online
3:22:29community, they essentially have, you
3:22:31know, the wild wild west. If they're 13
3:22:33years of, you know, of age in a lot of
3:22:35states, they have unfettered access to
3:22:37the internet. And as you've heard today,
3:22:40there's many many dangers working out
3:22:41lurking out there, a few of which we've
3:22:43heard today. Um, but there's there's
3:22:45other ones, too. And so, I did I kind of
3:22:47want to highlight some of those things.
3:22:49Um, but I also want to speak to, you
3:22:51know, mental health. Um because mental
3:22:53health of course is my you know my forte
3:22:56and my expertise.
3:22:58Um so you know what what is the what is
3:23:00the big problem with with online
3:23:01platforms? I mean let I want to say for
3:23:03sure first that there are benefits to
3:23:05online platforms right and I think it's
3:23:07important to acknowledge you know that
3:23:09dialect that idea that things can be
3:23:11good and bad right and what we're
3:23:14looking for what you all are hoping to
3:23:15find I think is that balance. Um so you
3:23:18know what do online platforms do for us?
3:23:21Well, they might help us learn Spanish,
3:23:22you know, they might help us learn a
3:23:24foreign language that we want to learn.
3:23:25For me and my daughter, we get online
3:23:27together and we we do learn a foreign
3:23:29language together. It's an interactive
3:23:30time. It's a fun thing we do and it and
3:23:33it provides a good, you know, a good
3:23:35activity. Um, so there's there's things
3:23:37like that. There's obviously online
3:23:39learning that that kids do when they're
3:23:40when they have virtual days or snow
3:23:42days. It provides opportunity for that.
3:23:44Um there's you know of course kids I've
3:23:46had kids that I work with in therapy who
3:23:48move away you know um 10 11 year old
3:23:51kids that have relationships with their
3:23:52community with their peers they move
3:23:54away somewhere they can't connect online
3:23:57platforms might provide some opportunity
3:23:58for connection with supervision right
3:24:01that's the caveat that's the balance
3:24:03there with supervision I'm not going to
3:24:06expect my 13 14 15 year old to supervise
3:24:09themselves on the internet it's just
3:24:11it's just not a good idea just like I'm
3:24:12not going to hand the car keys Um, so
3:24:15you know that's that I think that's
3:24:16that's a big part of the problem. Now
3:24:18what we've seen you know are the
3:24:20negative impacts. There's a lot more
3:24:22negative impacts. I would say definitely
3:24:24a net negative partially because we this
3:24:27this roll out that occurred it happened
3:24:30to me and I think to a lot of people um
3:24:32it could have been done better you know
3:24:34but by by giving the car keys to the
3:24:3613-year-old we've we've created a
3:24:37problem here. So, we have a net negative
3:24:40impact now of online platforms. And some
3:24:43of those things I really want to touch
3:24:44on are the mental health aspects. Um,
3:24:46and that has to do with increases in
3:24:48depression, um, eating disorders. I can
3:24:51go down the list. Low self-esteem, self
3:24:54harm, suicide, hospitalizations, poor
3:24:57social skills, the exacerbation of
3:24:59symptoms. I can't tell you how many kids
3:25:01I work with that have, you know, ADHD,
3:25:04um, impulse control disorders, and you
3:25:06can tell the difference when these kids
3:25:08have been on, you know, on their phones
3:25:09or online playing games all day in
3:25:12moderation's okay, but these kids cannot
3:25:15handle their their brains cannot handle
3:25:17that level of of experience, you know,
3:25:20that stimulation, right? They can't
3:25:22handle that. And so, it exacerbates
3:25:24their symptoms. In addition to that, a
3:25:26lot of kids with autism spectrum
3:25:28disorders, they are they are drawn to
3:25:30these platforms and and you know, like I
3:25:33said, it's a balanced thing. Now, for in
3:25:34some ways, these things can be good for
3:25:36them because they are able to connect to
3:25:38other kids where they have difficulty
3:25:40connecting, you know, maybe personto
3:25:41person because it's part of their what
3:25:43they're struggling with as autism is is
3:25:45this sort of over stimulation, this
3:25:47feeling of of fear of talking to other
3:25:49people. And so, it sort of allows them
3:25:51gives us this window to to relate to
3:25:53other people. The problem is it is it
3:25:54goes too far and it becomes not just a
3:25:56way but it comes the way with and then
3:25:59and then suddenly you know they're not
3:26:00able to connect to other people because
3:26:02they overrely on this online experience
3:26:05these whether they're games or internet
3:26:06or social chatting um things that
3:26:09they're doing uh they become you know
3:26:11just so inshed with that with that
3:26:14system that they forget about the rest
3:26:16of the world going on you know around
3:26:17them. Um, I've definitely had children
3:26:20that I feel like that I was working with
3:26:22that that sort of got lost in that
3:26:24virtual world. Um, I've had kids that
3:26:27I've worked with that have not been able
3:26:29to um peel themselves away and nor have
3:26:32their grandparents or their parents that
3:26:34are that are trying to get them away
3:26:35from the computer to come in to sessions
3:26:38even like they're cancelling sessions
3:26:39because they stayed up all night online
3:26:42playing games or enga engaged in social
3:26:45media and they can't come to their
3:26:46therapy session.
3:26:48um that you know that's that's a problem
3:26:51definitely. It also encourages some some
3:26:54obsessive compulsive type of behaviors.
3:26:56We're gonna I'm going to talk a little
3:26:57bit about you know pornography um and
3:27:00gaming. Those things in moderation
3:27:03perfectly fine. But the problem is a lot
3:27:05of times they they're not in moderation.
3:27:07They're not supervised. These are
3:27:08children that are left to their own
3:27:10devices and they're and they're taking
3:27:12this to a level that's not good for
3:27:14them. And so that's you know definitely
3:27:15something that we need to look at. Um
3:27:19I think some of you have probably uh you
3:27:22know seen some of the some of these
3:27:23graphs that I wanted to present. Um but
3:27:26uh there's a there's a book called the
3:27:28anxious generation um by by height doc
3:27:31Dr. Height and he uh is a social
3:27:34psychologist. He's done a lot of
3:27:35research. If you haven't read the
3:27:37anxious generation I would suggest doing
3:27:38it. Um it is it is a New York Times
3:27:41bestseller. It you know he Dr. height.
3:27:43Um, some of my colleagues say, you know,
3:27:45um, that he has a bit of a, uh, uh, I
3:27:48guess he overemphasizes the negative
3:27:50without looking at some of the positive
3:27:52aspects of social media and other
3:27:53things. So, I think that's important to
3:27:55do, but he has some very good um,
3:27:58information that I think is useful. Um,
3:28:01for example, he talks about how kids
3:28:03these days, this was, this was actually
3:28:052015, were actually spending, one study
3:28:07found that they were spending 40 hours a
3:28:09week on social media. 40 hours a week.
3:28:12That's a full-time job for anybody who
3:28:14Yeah, that's a full-time job, right? So,
3:28:16if you're going to school and you're
3:28:18working a full-time job on social media,
3:28:21what what time does that give you in
3:28:23order to interact with your
3:28:24grandparents, interact with your
3:28:25parents, have dinner at the table, go
3:28:27out with your friends, take a walk, you
3:28:29know, ride a bicycle, all those things
3:28:31thrown out the window. And, you know,
3:28:35we're somehow expecting a 13-year-old to
3:28:37recognize that, to to realize that, and
3:28:39to control that. that's just that that
3:28:41can't that's not going to happen. That's
3:28:43our responsibility as adults. Um so I do
3:28:47have there's a few graphs I'd like to to
3:28:48put up for you here. Um so this first
3:28:52one here and these this these are from
3:28:53that book that I mentioned. Um and what
3:28:57we got
3:28:59there they go.
3:29:01So this first graph is going to start to
3:29:03start to talk about in the early 2010s
3:29:06the major depressive uh disorder
3:29:08episodes that the increase and what you
3:29:10can see here is social media platforms
3:29:14affect first of all two points they
3:29:16affect girls in different ways than
3:29:18boys. Okay so girls they tend to be um
3:29:21internalizers right they suffer from
3:29:24things like depression and anxiety at a
3:29:26at a higher rate. Not that boys don't
3:29:28but they suffer at a higher rate from
3:29:29those things. Boys are externalizers,
3:29:32right? They tend to engage in
3:29:33problematic behaviors. So with them,
3:29:35what we see is more of the problematic
3:29:38pornography use or the um the internet
3:29:40gaming um you know that that they get
3:29:43some of them addicted. Um so but this is
3:29:46this graph illustrates girls. This is
3:29:48the rise from 2005 to 2020. Here you you
3:29:51guys can see um the 12 to 17 year olds
3:29:54the the number of depressive episodes
3:29:57and how steep that climb is. Okay. What
3:29:59what we're going to see if we go to the
3:30:01next slide here, we're going to look at
3:30:03the the US prevalence of anxiety. Okay?
3:30:06And again, if you look at the younger
3:30:08group, see how much more impacted they
3:30:10are that the top line there 18 to 25
3:30:13year old. See, can you all see that from
3:30:162008 to 2022 that that incline that
3:30:19steady incline of just spike?
3:30:23When did when did these smartphones come
3:30:24out? Right? When when did they start
3:30:27every I mean we can all see this, right?
3:30:29It's I mean this wasn't COVID. No, this
3:30:32wasn't you know I don't know what what
3:30:35this wasn't global warming. This this
3:30:37was cell this was you know social media
3:30:39internet. Um if we go on to the next
3:30:41page here we can see social media users
3:30:46uh and you know US adolescence here
3:30:48again we see the sharp incline. You see
3:30:51how quickly all these just just shooting
3:30:53up from 2008 to 2015. Um, and this uh,
3:30:57you know, so this is what we're seeing.
3:30:59And go on to the next one. I'm going to
3:31:00try not to spend too much time on each
3:31:02slide here, but but this this is some
3:31:04actual data. So if we say, okay, well,
3:31:05how are they measuring depression? You
3:31:07know, that's what researchers want to
3:31:08do. Well, maybe they're not. You
3:31:09skeptics are going to say, well, maybe
3:31:10it's not really depression. Maybe we're
3:31:12just recognizing depression more because
3:31:13we're better at it. Or maybe now we know
3:31:15autism better and so we're testing more
3:31:17because that's why it's there. No, no,
3:31:18no. The these are actual data from self
3:31:21harm incidents, right? Hospitalizations.
3:31:25Similarly, look at that. Going up for
3:31:27girls, what's that? 634 out of 100,000,
3:31:31right? From from about a 100 all the way
3:31:34up to 634 in the span of 15 years. How I
3:31:38mean, how does that happen? Okay. And we
3:31:41go on to the next one. Same thing. That
3:31:43the self harm shooting up 113 from all
3:31:47the way down there. Woo. That's, you
3:31:49know, 25 113. So you you can see these
3:31:52are percent these are, you know,
3:31:53percentages of 100,000, but that's a lot
3:31:56of kids, a lot of girls in this case
3:31:59showing those graphs. Now, there aren't
3:32:01the the same concise graphs. Thank Thank
3:32:03you for putting those up for me um for
3:32:06for the boys issues, but I'm going to
3:32:08speak a little bit to that, too. So, as
3:32:10I talked about before, you know, boys
3:32:12are a little bit different how they how
3:32:13they interact with the internet. And so
3:32:15a lot of times what we're seeing with
3:32:16them, the problems are more surrounded
3:32:19around gaming and gam and in some cases
3:32:21gaming addictions. Again, it's that
3:32:24dialect. Gaming is okay in certain
3:32:26situations, right? Supervised um older,
3:32:29you know, older adults, of course, uh
3:32:32that can control it. They have some
3:32:33self-control. Okay, you know, I've been
3:32:34playing a game two for two hours now.
3:32:36Maybe I need to go outside and cut the
3:32:38lawn. You know that. But you can't ask a
3:32:4113-year-old to do that. They don't know.
3:32:43They don't know that. They're they're
3:32:45just playing this game and they're
3:32:46playing and playing and playing. Their
3:32:47their friends are hopping on and playing
3:32:49with them. How much fun is that? You
3:32:50know, well, we're having a great time.
3:32:52You know, we're shooting things and
3:32:54having great time, you know, playing
3:32:55this game and they don't want to leave.
3:32:57And so what happens is, you know, they
3:32:59they feel the stimulation in their
3:33:01brains because their brains are are
3:33:03taking that in and they're being
3:33:04stimulated, right? And they and they
3:33:06just want to keep playing. And it's just
3:33:08like I mean, it's very similar. It's not
3:33:09just like a drug, but it's very similar
3:33:11to the effects of drugs of cocaine, you
3:33:14know. It's it's a dopamine rush. It's a
3:33:16it's a you know, oh yeah, you know, and
3:33:18for any of you, I mean, I've played some
3:33:20of these games. I'm I'm not anti-game,
3:33:22but for any of you people who have
3:33:23played them, you do feel a rush when
3:33:25you're playing those games. You can feel
3:33:26your heart start beating. You know, your
3:33:28adrenaline's going and it's exciting. Um
3:33:32the problem again is kids are not
3:33:34equipped biologically to handle that
3:33:36level of stimulation and to know when to
3:33:38stop, right? To know when to stop. And
3:33:41that's what we need to figure out how to
3:33:43do. So the other problem that boys a lot
3:33:45of times and girls, again, I'm not
3:33:47saying this that girls can't have
3:33:49problematic pornography use because they
3:33:51can, but boys, you know, are exposed,
3:33:54kids are exposed at a very young age. I
3:33:56think earlier we heard you know um cases
3:33:58where these are popping up on even their
3:34:00school accounts right I mean the the
3:34:03exposure is you know found I guess teens
3:34:06in the US 68.4% 4% reported exposure to
3:34:09online pornography. 68% okay uh let's
3:34:12see 19 to 37% of teens reported
3:34:15intentional use. So we've got 20 20
3:34:18roughly 20 to 40% of of kids teenagers
3:34:21that are using pornography intentionally
3:34:23and you know intending to do that. Um
3:34:27obviously pornography use has some
3:34:30negative effects very negative effects
3:34:32on you know risky behavior sexual
3:34:34behaviors in the future for these kids.
3:34:35That's what we see. That's the outcome
3:34:36that people that are exposed early is is
3:34:39risky sexual behaviors. Um even you know
3:34:42violent a higher tendency towards
3:34:43violence mixed with sex um coercive
3:34:47activities and just the potential for
3:34:50you know affecting future relationships
3:34:52in terms of their closeness and their
3:34:53intimacy with actual real people. Um so
3:34:57th you know those are big problems and
3:34:59affecting boys more than girls but not
3:35:01boys exclusively. Um, you know, I I did
3:35:04I have in my prepared remarks about, you
3:35:07know, exposure of course to online
3:35:08predators and cyber cyber bullying. I'm
3:35:10not going to get into that because
3:35:11that's been very well covered today. It
3:35:13is a very big problem obviously a very
3:35:16big problem. Um, I did want to talk a
3:35:18little bit about a newer problem that
3:35:20we're seeing and as a psychologist this
3:35:22this has impacted you know me and what I
3:35:24do um and what I've seen. So this has to
3:35:27do with AI chat bots. So I I think you
3:35:30know some of you might have read or seen
3:35:31in the news um that now there are AI
3:35:34chat bots that are actually providing uh
3:35:37you know recommendations and almost
3:35:39becoming like a pal or a buddy with our
3:35:41kids and in some cases giving them
3:35:44medical advice or mental health advice
3:35:47or telling them in one case I know
3:35:48that's led to a lawsuit um that it's
3:35:51okay you know that suicide might be an
3:35:53option. Um, these things are happening.
3:35:56You know, the the the the AI age, it's
3:35:59good in a way, but we need some
3:36:01safeguards. Kids do not need to be
3:36:03talking to AI about what they, you know,
3:36:05how to break up with their girlfriend
3:36:06and what what to do if they start
3:36:08feeling suicidal and, you know, what
3:36:10what do they do if they want to cut
3:36:11themselves. I mean, that's that's for a
3:36:13therapist or a counselor at school or a
3:36:15parent or a grandparent or a pastor, not
3:36:18an AI bot. It's just it's just too it's
3:36:21too complex and tricky. and I'm not
3:36:23going to trust the safety of my kid to
3:36:25an AI bot and I don't think any of us
3:36:27want to do that. So that needs some
3:36:30looking into for sure. Um, okay. So the
3:36:34other thing that I I really want to
3:36:35speak to and this is something that we
3:36:37haven't really gotten to, but I I really
3:36:39believe this strongly and that is we
3:36:41need to ask ourselves not just about
3:36:43what harm the content that the kids are
3:36:45looking at, what these social platforms
3:36:47are doing, but we also need to think
3:36:49about what are they missing out on? What
3:36:52are they what what are they missing out
3:36:53on when they're when they're online
3:36:55doing all these things that we're
3:36:56talking about? Social media for 40 hours
3:36:58a week. Uh gaming for who, you know, who
3:37:01knows how. Pornography, whatever they're
3:37:03doing that, you know, sure that that's
3:37:06problematic in of itself, but what about
3:37:08what they're not doing? What about, you
3:37:11know, they're not going in somewhere
3:37:12with their friends and playing and
3:37:14having a good time? They're not, you
3:37:15know, they're not going to the arcade or
3:37:17go biking outside or walking down a
3:37:20trail at the at the local park. They're
3:37:22not, you know, they're not engaging in
3:37:23family dinners. Um, a lot of times, you
3:37:26know, you guys have probably seen even
3:37:27when you go out to eat, you know, you
3:37:29see families sitting around, they're all
3:37:31on their cell phones. I mean, it's like,
3:37:33hello. You know, I I think that we
3:37:36really need to get back to in-person
3:37:39communications to natural physical the
3:37:43physical natural environment. And I know
3:37:45a lot of you probably this buzz word
3:37:47mindfulness. What does mindfulness mean?
3:37:49Mindfulness just means being present,
3:37:51you know, just being present, being
3:37:53real. Um, and I think our kids are
3:37:55losing that. They're missing out on
3:37:57that, which means they're not going to
3:37:58have the empathy and the care for other
3:38:00people. They're not going to have the
3:38:02social skills to carry on a reciprocal
3:38:04conversation back and forth to debate,
3:38:07to talk about issues. They're not
3:38:09they're not going to know how to do
3:38:10that. We have to we have to figure out
3:38:12how to help them and and connect back
3:38:14with the physical world, nature, and
3:38:16with each other in person. Um, so that
3:38:21is one big thing that can be done. I did
3:38:23I have a list of several things and
3:38:24Representative Chain has um a copy I'm
3:38:27going to ask him to share with with the
3:38:29committee members. Um, but I do have,
3:38:31you know, some recommendations that fall
3:38:33in line with some of the things we've
3:38:34heard today. I will applaud you guys for
3:38:37passing the legislation to increase that
3:38:39age. Um, and I and I hope as the
3:38:42attorney general spoke that, uh, that
3:38:44gets, you know, carried out. So, so that
3:38:46kids under 16 cannot get um, access, you
3:38:50know, like they are now still because
3:38:52that's a big problem. So, that's a big
3:38:53thing. And I mentioned the thing about
3:38:54the AI um, and also I agree with the
3:38:58schools. the this the the person who
3:39:01spoke earlier about the the um school
3:39:03situation where kids are learning um on
3:39:06tablets all day long. So, if you're
3:39:08learning on tablets all day long and
3:39:10then you're returning home and you're
3:39:11you're potentially, you know, looking on
3:39:13your smartphone or playing video games
3:39:15or whatever, how much screen time are
3:39:18you getting? I mean, so you're if you're
3:39:19getting 40 hours of social media time
3:39:21plus how many hours of that is at
3:39:24school, you're also getting that much
3:39:25more. So, is that like two full-time
3:39:27jobs online? I mean, that that's a lot
3:39:31of screen time. And I don't know about
3:39:32you guys, but when I look at the screen,
3:39:33I have to do it for my job. And when I
3:39:35get off two, three hours, my head hurts.
3:39:37You know, I got blurred vision. I I
3:39:39don't feel very good. I need a break. I
3:39:41need to walk around. And kids aren't
3:39:43getting that. So, I think that limiting
3:39:48teachers, you know, I teachers need the
3:39:50most support because they have a very
3:39:51hard job. But the current situation
3:39:53where the kids are learning on their
3:39:55tablets or their Chromebooks um all day
3:39:58every day is just is just I don't think
3:40:00it's good for kids brains for their eye
3:40:02hand coordination for their their um
3:40:04their focus. It's not going to help a
3:40:06child with ADHD. It's not going to help
3:40:08a child with autism. It's not going to
3:40:10help kids learn how to to interact with
3:40:12their peers. Um they're not going to
3:40:14learn a lot of the valuable skills or
3:40:16have them unique experiences that they
3:40:17would have with their teachers um
3:40:20because they're on those tablets. and
3:40:21that's that's what they're relying on
3:40:23for learning. So, I think that's a big
3:40:25recommendation. I like the idea of the
3:40:29uh phones not being in the schools of
3:40:31the ban. I think that was a very good
3:40:33idea. I applaud y'all for that as well.
3:40:35You know, elementary and middle
3:40:36schoolers don't need to be on their
3:40:37phones, you know. Um and I hope my
3:40:40daughter won't be too mad at me if she
3:40:41sees this, but it's true. It's true. And
3:40:44you know, I'll go a step further and
3:40:45I'll say I don't I don't even know that
3:40:47high schoolers should be on their
3:40:48phones. I mean, you're there to learn,
3:40:50you know, get, you know, get wrap up
3:40:53what you need to do on your phone before
3:40:54school and after school, and you don't
3:40:56need to be on your phone. Think about
3:40:58this, too. I just I know we're I'm
3:41:01probably running over, but when you see
3:41:02kids, you know, and they're and they're
3:41:03in the classroom and they're and they
3:41:05don't have phones, like some some
3:41:06schools say, you know, we're just gonna
3:41:08take, you know, just don't get on your
3:41:10phone, but what happens as soon as like
3:41:11with high schoolers, as soon as the
3:41:13class is over, they're on their phone
3:41:15scrolling through their phones, right?
3:41:16Are they talking to the other
3:41:17classmates? No, they're not. They're not
3:41:20having those those interactions, right?
3:41:22They're not. So, I think that's
3:41:24something that really needs to be
3:41:25changed because we need we really need
3:41:27to empower teachers to teach kids how to
3:41:30critically think, how to figure out how
3:41:32to teach themselves, how to learn, you
3:41:34know, for themselves, not just rely on
3:41:36some, you know, AI or information
3:41:38online. They they need to be able to
3:41:40figure that out and critically think
3:41:41themselves. And they need to work with
3:41:42each other to do that. Um, so those are
3:41:46some of the suggestions that I would
3:41:47make and I thank you all very much for
3:41:50having me and uh and yeah, if you have
3:41:52any questions or anything of me, I'm
3:41:54more than happy to answer.
3:41:56>> Well, thank you for coming and speaking
3:41:58and sharing your thoughts. Um, very um
3:42:02very revealing and and a lot to think
3:42:04about as far as I think most of us seem
3:42:06to be on the same page as far as screen
3:42:08time and limiting. Um it's unfortunate
3:42:10that the rest of the um I won't say the
3:42:12world but the United States seems to
3:42:14just unfettered access to information
3:42:16all the time is is an okay thing when um
3:42:19presence is something that's being lost.
3:42:21Um even in my own I'll be a little open
3:42:23even in my own life um found about two
3:42:26years ago that I almost had lost
3:42:28understanding of what presence was
3:42:29between thinking about legislation
3:42:31thinking about business and everything
3:42:32else. It was always thinking about the
3:42:33past or the present. Mhm.
3:42:35>> But now is pre or I'm sorry, the past is
3:42:38the future, but now is the present. Now
3:42:40is where we are. Now is where we live.
3:42:42It's the only thing we have. And so um
3:42:44through a um very interesting set of
3:42:47events that I won't get into now. Um I
3:42:49feel like I learned presence and it's
3:42:51made me a much better father
3:42:53businessman. Um and again it's I believe
3:42:57this is one of the best worst things
3:42:59ever created. You know, it's allowed us
3:43:00to have all of this information and to
3:43:02have and to be able to have information,
3:43:04which is good. Having information is
3:43:06something we need to be able to educate
3:43:07ourselves and not just be told and move
3:43:09on. But this again, just always
3:43:13information, always, you know, pushing
3:43:16at you and blasting at you is something
3:43:18that, um, you know, I think we're
3:43:20already starting to learn, but I think
3:43:22in the next two, three, five years,
3:43:24we're going to realize how how how much
3:43:26this has really affected us. So,
3:43:27>> yeah.
3:43:28>> Thank you. Thank you very much for
3:43:29sharing,
3:43:31>> Representative Glaze.
3:43:33>> Thank you so much. Um, Dr. Rak, would
3:43:37you share a little bit about the nature
3:43:40nature and um, the work that you're
3:43:43doing therapeutically for our kids to
3:43:47kind of get them away from
3:43:49>> this learned behavior with these phones?
3:43:52>> Sure.
3:43:53>> Tell tell us how that's working for our
3:43:55students and families.
3:43:56>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'd be I'd be
3:43:58happy to share that. That is my passion
3:44:00right now and I I really enjoy seeing
3:44:03the effects of that. So, basically, um
3:44:05what we do, we have a we have a farm.
3:44:07It's on 50 acres and we have um animals
3:44:09that we've rescued. We've taken in um
3:44:12farm animals. So, we have miniature
3:44:13horses, miniature donkeys, horses, um
3:44:16pig pigs, uh goats, which are amazing
3:44:19animals. Uh and uh what we do is we uh
3:44:23have one side of our office where it's
3:44:25actual therapeutic what you would
3:44:27normally see in a therapy office and
3:44:28then the other side is um a barn. And so
3:44:31we bring animals over um into the barn
3:44:34and we bring kids, you know, to to the
3:44:36session. We we first we kind of get a
3:44:38good idea about what's going on with
3:44:40them and what kind of issues they have.
3:44:42And then we try to teach skills that are
3:44:44going to be related to this this idea of
3:44:46mindfulness and being in the present.
3:44:48you know, natural consequences. Here's
3:44:50these animals. You know, we're going to
3:44:52go out. We're going to learn how to be
3:44:53confident working and interacting with
3:44:54animals. We're going to, you know, learn
3:44:56how to lead them. We're going to walk
3:44:58them around. We're going to learn um
3:44:59some basic uh self soothing skills, how
3:45:02to calm ourselves down, how to deal
3:45:04with, you know, our in our inner
3:45:06anxiety, which we all all have um or
3:45:08whatever vulnerability we might have. We
3:45:10teach them that we empower these kids to
3:45:12learn skills in order to do that. And I
3:45:15guess most importantly on a broader
3:45:17broader broader perspective, we teach
3:45:19them about the healing power of nature
3:45:21and how and how nature just being
3:45:24outside interacting with animals or
3:45:26taking a walk on the hiking trails um or
3:45:29just being present and listening to the
3:45:31birds chirping and you know the the
3:45:33various things that are going on. And
3:45:35this I mean this doesn't have to be on a
3:45:37farm in Mineral Bluff, Georgia. I mean
3:45:38this can occur you know in your own
3:45:40backyards. Um, and I, you know, I I
3:45:43think it's what I've seen is that it
3:45:45does bring kids back to nature. They
3:45:47realize the idea that sometimes, and we
3:45:49do talk to them about the idea that, you
3:45:51know, there's other things that they can
3:45:53do in their lives to fill their lives up
3:45:54besides, you know, just gaming or social
3:45:57media. We certainly talk to them too
3:45:59about the effects of, you know, social
3:46:01media. oftentimes they are these are
3:46:04kids that have anxiety issues um or they
3:46:06already have like trauma and so we'll
3:46:08talk to them about that and give them
3:46:10skills and coping mechanisms that are
3:46:12grounded in psychology but also you know
3:46:15nature-based interventions that they can
3:46:17look back on and remember and and take
3:46:19with them so to empower them to help
3:46:21themselves.
3:46:25>> Representative Chastain
3:46:31That's it.
3:46:33>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to take
3:46:35just a minute to thank Dr. Rocky for
3:46:37being with us today, taking a whole day
3:46:39out of his schedule. I know you had to
3:46:40do some shifting around to do that, but
3:46:42appreciate you being here. Uh, as you
3:46:44can tell by his presentation how
3:46:46passionate he is about these issues and
3:46:48I hope he is able to stay engaged with
3:46:51us as we go forward with the committee
3:46:53and and see how this thing turns out.
3:46:55But we appreciate you being here, Dr.
3:46:56Rocky. I know uh just in our community
3:46:59some of the things he shared working
3:47:01with he and his wife uh working with our
3:47:04with the children and and adults uh
3:47:07through the farm and and through his uh
3:47:10businesses just it's it's incredible.
3:47:12Appreciate you being here with us today.
3:47:14Thank you Dr. Rocky.
3:47:15>> Thank you. Thank you for having me.
3:47:27Thank you again, Dr. Rocky. We
3:47:29appreciate you coming and spending time
3:47:30with us. All right, next we will go to
3:47:34Let's go to Tanil Chapman. I think
3:47:37Tanal's on Zoom if I remember correctly.
3:47:45Oh, no one's join. Okay. And I guess not
3:47:49here. So, all right. Um Sam,
3:47:54love to have you come up and speak.
3:48:14>> Yeah, just tell us your name,
3:48:15background, and the floor is yours.
3:48:17Thank you.
3:48:18>> Thank you. Um, I'll just dive right in.
3:48:21Uh, first of all, thank you, uh,
3:48:24Chairman Clifton and members of the
3:48:25committee, uh, for the opportunity to
3:48:27speak today. My name is Sam Springfield,
3:48:29and I'm here on behalf of Bark, which is
3:48:31a digital safety company that has spent
3:48:33the last decade, almost 11 years, uh,
3:48:36helping families and schools protect
3:48:37kids online. Uh, to give you a sense of
3:48:39scale, BART currently helps protect over
3:48:417 million children at home, and we work
3:48:43with over 3,700 school districts across
3:48:45the country, including right here in
3:48:47Georgia.
3:48:48In 2025 alone, our systems analyzed a
3:48:51record 11.1 billion digital activities
3:48:54across families across the families we
3:48:56serve. Uh that's not a sample size.
3:48:58That's actually one of the largest real
3:49:00real world data sets that exist on
3:49:02what's actually happening to kids
3:49:04online. And it's the lens that I want to
3:49:06bring to this conversation today. To my
3:49:09knowledge, Bark is the only entity
3:49:10willing to put a real number on how
3:49:12often kids are actually encountering
3:49:14harm online, both harmful content and
3:49:16harmful people, and to say specifically
3:49:18where it's happening. Other
3:49:20organizations can tell you that the risk
3:49:22exists. Um, but we can tell you the rate
3:49:24at which it's occurring and which
3:49:26platforms it's occurring on. Uh, that's
3:49:29the kind of specificity this committee
3:49:31needs in order to act rather than just
3:49:33react.
3:49:35I want to start with a statistic from
3:49:37our 2025 annual report that sounds
3:49:39reassuring on the surface because the
3:49:41real story underneath is the most
3:49:43important thing I'll say today.
3:49:45Predatory alerts for tween users hit an
3:49:47all-time low this year down to just 4%.
3:49:50A huge drop from the pandemic peak that
3:49:52we saw in 2021. On its face, that looks
3:49:54like real progress. But here's the
3:49:57problem. It isn't. What we're actually
3:49:59seeing is a migration. Predators aren't
3:50:01disappearing. They're moving to spaces
3:50:03where parents and safety tools are
3:50:05structurally blocked from seeing them.
3:50:07So the alert numbers go down on
3:50:09monitored platforms while the actual
3:50:11risk to kids does not. It just becomes
3:50:13invisible to the adults responsible for
3:50:15protecting them. That distinction
3:50:17matters enormously. Um a drop in
3:50:19reported incidents is not the same thing
3:50:21as a drop in actual harm. If anything,
3:50:24declining visibility should raise more
3:50:26concern, not less.
3:50:28The second trend I want to flag is one
3:50:30that doesn't make headlines the way that
3:50:32predators predator stories might, but
3:50:34our data says that it should. Disordered
3:50:36eating and self-hatred are a part of
3:50:38this picture. And that part alone is
3:50:40staggering. Engagement with that kind of
3:50:42content has increased 651%
3:50:45or 650% since 2021 according to Bark's
3:50:49data, reaching children younger than
3:50:51we've ever seen before. Um, but I don't
3:50:54want to leave you thinking that that's
3:50:56the whole story because it isn't. Uh, as
3:50:59we've discussed today, anxiety and
3:51:00depress depression now show up
3:51:02constantly in the conversations on
3:51:04between kids today. Self harm and
3:51:07suicidal ideiation are not rare alerts
3:51:09in our system. They are some of the most
3:51:10common ones that we're sending to
3:51:12schools and parents. Um, we're seeing a
3:51:15real shift in where that crisis is
3:51:16living online. Platforms built around
3:51:19searchable, permanent archives of
3:51:20content rather than messages that just
3:51:22disappear, have become a magnet for this
3:51:25kind of material. Tumblr, for example,
3:51:27which I'm a Tumblr kid, grew up on that
3:51:29platform, um is back and it has become
3:51:32the single most flagged app in our
3:51:34entire system for severe suicidal
3:51:36ideiation and depression. Kids aren't
3:51:38just scrolling past this content,
3:51:39they're seeking it out, saving it, and
3:51:41returning to it. So when we talk about
3:51:44social media harm, I'd ask this
3:51:46committee to think beyond stranger
3:51:47danger. The platforms themselves through
3:51:50recommendation engines built to maximize
3:51:52engagement are shaping how kids feel
3:51:54about their own worth, their own safety,
3:51:56and in some cases whether they want to
3:51:58keep going. That's a harder problem to
3:52:00legislate around than a single bad
3:52:01actor. It's arguably the more pervasive
3:52:04one, and it's the one I want this
3:52:05committee to sit with today.
3:52:08I know we've spent some real time uh
3:52:10discussing Roblox today specifically and
3:52:13I'd like to add a little bit to that. Um
3:52:16it is one of the most widely used
3:52:18platforms among kids in this country.
3:52:20Over 40% of its users are reported to be
3:52:23under 13 and a large share of 9 to 12
3:52:25year olds in the US play it regularly.
3:52:27It is for some families a child's first
3:52:30sustained experience with an online
3:52:31social environment.
3:52:33It's also become the subject of a
3:52:35rapidly growing body of litigation. Over
3:52:38150 lawsuits are now consolidated in uh
3:52:40federal multi-dist litigation in
3:52:42California along separate actions filed
3:52:45by Texas, Louisiana, Kentucky, and Los
3:52:47Angeles. All making a similar claim.
3:52:50Adults have been able to pose as
3:52:52children, build trust, and move kids
3:52:54into private communication outside of
3:52:55the platform's guard rails uh where the
3:52:58real harm happens. Roblox has begun
3:53:00rolling out facial age verification and
3:53:02other safeguards and response. Uh
3:53:04something we like to call, you know,
3:53:06smoke and mirrors. It's all a PR play.
3:53:09Um and those steps matter, but the
3:53:11volume and consistency of these cases
3:53:13tells us the underlying problem hasn't
3:53:15been solved. It's been responded to. And
3:53:19I do want to take a moment, Shalp, to
3:53:20thank you uh for sharing your story. Um,
3:53:24we're we're really big fans of what you
3:53:26do at Bark. Um, and what you've
3:53:29experienced alongside the data that we
3:53:31see every day, um, it's it stops being
3:53:34two separate issues. It's one consistent
3:53:36picture. His experience isn't an outlier
3:53:39sitting next to our data. It's
3:53:41confirmation of exactly what our numbers
3:53:43describe. So, thank you again for
3:53:45sharing that with this committee. Um, it
3:53:47matters and it makes the case for why
3:53:48this platform deserves the level of
3:53:50scrutiny that we're asking for.
3:53:53Um, so what does Bark actually do about
3:53:56all of this? I want to talk about three
3:53:58layers uh of kind of how Bark helps
3:54:00parents, schools, educators navigate
3:54:02what we're experiencing today. So our
3:54:05consumer product uh which started out as
3:54:07the Bark app, founded by a dad of two
3:54:09back in 2015. Um we monitor text,
3:54:13emails, and more than 30 social media
3:54:15platforms and apps using AI that we've
3:54:17trained to recognize context, not just
3:54:19keywords. So when our system detects
3:54:22something concerning things like cyber
3:54:24bullying, grooming, self harm, sexual
3:54:26content, we alert a parent or a
3:54:28caregiver in real time so they can step
3:54:30in. We're not replacing parents. We're
3:54:32just trying to give them the visibility
3:54:34that platforms want. Second is our work
3:54:37in schools. Um, Bark for Schools is
3:54:39active in more than 3,700 districts uh
3:54:42nationwide, giving educators and
3:54:44administrators the same kind of early
3:54:45warning visibility, often catching
3:54:48warning signs of self harm or violence
3:54:49before they escalate into crisis on
3:54:51campus. I don't have the exact number
3:54:54handy on me today, but we have helped to
3:54:56stop multiple school shootings through
3:54:58our school's product.
3:55:00Um, third, and this is a newer venture
3:55:02for Bark, is called our connected
3:55:04communities program. Um, it's
3:55:07representing a shift in how we think
3:55:08about the problem. So, connected
3:55:10communities works directly with schools
3:55:11to build digital lit literacy and
3:55:14decision-making skills starting the
3:55:16moment kids get their first phone, not
3:55:17after something has already gone wrong.
3:55:19It brings parents, educators, and
3:55:21students into the same conversation so
3:55:23that the expectations set at home and
3:55:26the expectations set at school are
3:55:27actually aligned. The idea is simple.
3:55:30Technology can catch problems after they
3:55:32start, but the better long-term
3:55:33investment is helping kids build the
3:55:35judgment to avoid walking into them in
3:55:37the first place.
3:55:40Um, I raise all three of these because I
3:55:42think the instinct in rooms like this is
3:55:44to reach for a single fix, whether
3:55:46that's a piece of legislation or a
3:55:48single product. But the reality is that
3:55:50detection school, detection tools,
3:55:52school partnerships, and early education
3:55:54all have to work together. None of them
3:55:56alone is sufficient.
3:55:58And I do want to spend a moment on a
3:56:00specific piece of federal legis
3:56:01legislation that Bark has been proud to
3:56:03support because I think it's the most
3:56:05practical lever available to this
3:56:07committee and to Congress right now.
3:56:08It's called Sammy's Law. At its core, it
3:56:11would require platforms to allow
3:56:13third-party safety tools like Bark to
3:56:15actually see what's happening on a
3:56:17child's account. Right now, many of the
3:56:19largest platforms structurally block
3:56:21that visibility. Parents can install
3:56:23every safety tool available to them and
3:56:25still be locked out of the very spaces
3:56:27where kids spend the most time online.
3:56:30Our chief parent officer, Tatana Jordan,
3:56:32who I'm here today in place of, has put
3:56:35it plainly. We can't protect what we
3:56:37can't see. And right now, some of the
3:56:39largest platforms are keenly aware of
3:56:40that gap and have very little incentive
3:56:42to close it on their own. That's exactly
3:56:45the kind of imbalance um legislation
3:56:47that Sammy's law is designed to correct.
3:56:50It doesn't bl b ban a platform or
3:56:52restrict what a teenager can say online.
3:56:54It simply says that if a parent wants
3:56:56help watching out for their kid, the
3:56:58platform can't be the thing standing in
3:56:59the way.
3:57:01Um, I'll close with the same honesty I'd
3:57:04want if I were sitting where you are.
3:57:07Bark sees most of what we're able to
3:57:09with the permissions a family or school
3:57:11grants us across the apps, platforms,
3:57:13and devices that we monitor. Where we
3:57:15see something concerning, we alert a
3:57:17parent or educator and help them work
3:57:19through it with the child in front of
3:57:20them. That's the model. Not surveillance
3:57:23for its own sake, but giving a trusted
3:57:26adult what they need to step in the
3:57:27right to step in at the right moment and
3:57:29to have the conversation that actually
3:57:30changes something. We're not a
3:57:32substitute for that conversation, and
3:57:34we're not a substitute for the
3:57:35legislative work this committee is
3:57:36doing. But what we can offer and what
3:57:39very other very few others are willing
3:57:41to offer is a real number for how often
3:57:43kids are encountering harm online. What
3:57:45kind and where along with on the on the
3:57:48ground experience working alongside
3:57:50millions of millions of families and
3:57:52thousands of schools who are living this
3:57:53problem every single day. Uh thank you
3:57:56for your time and I'm happy to take any
3:57:57questions.
3:57:59>> Thank you Sam for coming and speaking.
3:58:01Um, I came across Bark in my um, looking
3:58:05through all of this and uh, Attorney
3:58:07General Chris Carr actually was on a
3:58:09podcast with y'all's CEO um, Tatiana who
3:58:12wasn't able to be here today. Um, but as
3:58:14I heard about that and was able to speak
3:58:16with her and hear about the platform
3:58:18that y'all have and what y'all are doing
3:58:19is just I mean exactly what what we're
3:58:22hoping for. And like you said, it's not
3:58:24an absolute tool. It's not a final it's
3:58:26not a fix, but it is a tool. It's
3:58:28something that that parents can have.
3:58:30>> Um because as much as we're focused on
3:58:32this little piece of it, it's so much
3:58:34more than this. Again, back to the back
3:58:36to the phones and and the access. And so
3:58:38for y'all to have put something together
3:58:40that is um not just again a keyword.
3:58:43It's more um intuitive to looking and
3:58:46and helping children is is is really
3:58:48amazing. So,
3:58:49>> thank you.
3:58:49>> Thank you. Thank you very much for for
3:58:51speaking.
3:58:56>> That's what Yeah. What does does Bark is
3:58:57it a what does it stand for? Just
3:59:00>> so it's like your family's digital guard
3:59:01dog. So as your if someone is
3:59:04approaching your home Yeah. It's
3:59:05actually funny. We talk about this a
3:59:07lot. Um people are always like, "What's
3:59:08why bark?" Um it's you know if some if a
3:59:11stranger's coming up to your home, your
3:59:12dog's going to bark to alert you. We're
3:59:14going to alert you if there's concerning
3:59:16content happening on your kids devices.
3:59:18>> I like that. That's awesome.
3:59:21>> Does anyone have any questions?
3:59:26Well, thank you again. Thank y'all for
3:59:28what you're doing. Um, we look forward
3:59:29to hearing from y'all and and we'll
3:59:32definitely continue communication as we
3:59:34continue to move forward. So,
3:59:35>> thank you.
3:59:35>> Thank you very much.
3:59:42>> All right. Um,
3:59:45do we still know? Okay, I think that's
3:59:48it. Unless I've missed somebody.
3:59:52I think that's about everyone we had.
3:59:56All righty. Oh, that's something. Yes,
3:59:59please.
4:00:03Do you want to go to the mic? Yeah.
4:00:09>> Sharon Winkler. I am the owner and
4:00:12editor of social media harms.org, or uh
4:00:16which is a website that lists uh
4:00:18peer-reviewed
4:00:20uh research studies documenting harms
4:00:23from the use of online platforms now
4:00:27including AI platforms. Uh there are
4:00:31actually randomized controlled studies
4:00:34on AI chat bots that are available now.
4:00:37Um, I got into this work uh due to the
4:00:41death of my son, Alex, uh, who was 17
4:00:45years old and a junior in high school.
4:00:49Uh he was um basically cyberbullied
4:00:54by an NBE on one platform and then went
4:00:59on another platform where the
4:01:02recommendation algorithm sent him this
4:01:05pro-suicide.
4:01:07He went to this after he broke up with
4:01:10his girlfriend. He could not handle it
4:01:14and after three days he died. We knew he
4:01:18was upset because of the breakup with
4:01:21his girlfriend. Uh, but I had no idea. I
4:01:27had no concept of these NBC groups uh or
4:01:32that he was interacting with them until
4:01:35after he died and we were able to look
4:01:38at his digital devices. So, uh, it's
4:01:42been my goal to educate the public about
4:01:46these dangers. And so, uh, chairman, I I
4:01:50really thank you so much for spreading
4:01:53this information. Chef, thank you for
4:01:56your work. Um, it it concerns me that
4:01:59the public really doesn't know about
4:02:02this and, uh, we we need to let parents
4:02:05and other concerned adults know. So,
4:02:08thank you very much and I thank you for
4:02:10your time.
4:02:11Thank you for speaking. I'm really
4:02:13really sorry to hear about your son.
4:02:14Thank you for be willing to come forward
4:02:16and share that. Thank you very much.
4:02:20Well, unless we have anything else,
4:02:22we'll go ahead and wrap this up. I again
4:02:24want to thank all the committee members
4:02:25for being here. Um the speakers,
4:02:28thank you for be willing again to come
4:02:30and to talk and to share your story. Um
4:02:33we've covered a lot today. I think we
4:02:34have um given a lot of information. Um,
4:02:38we'll be putting some of this stuff out
4:02:39on social media. Um,
4:02:42I'll just say it in today's society, a
4:02:44lot of this stuff doesn't move all that
4:02:46well. Um, media, while media is here and
4:02:48and I appreciate media, it's um, stuff
4:02:51like this just doesn't have the grip
4:02:53that a lot of other things have. So, my
4:02:55goal again is is to educate, is to get
4:02:57this out on social media, to get this to
4:02:59the parents, the kids, the friends, the
4:03:01cousins, the aunts, the uncles, the
4:03:02grandparents. Um, even my personal
4:03:05experience as I've discovered more of
4:03:06this u, me and my wife as we've talked
4:03:08to our friends about what's going on and
4:03:11um, I haven't found anyone that knows
4:03:14about it. No one. No one that tr Oh
4:03:17yeah, I've heard Roblox is bad or I've
4:03:19heard this, I've heard that. But no one
4:03:21that said, "Oh yeah, I've heard the
4:03:23podcast or I've seen this, I've seen
4:03:24that." Um and that I was I was telling
4:03:26Shlept his podcast with Sean Ryan is one
4:03:29of his most heard um podcasts on uh I
4:03:34believe Spotify. So while this has gone
4:03:36out so far and so many
4:03:39it's not going as far as we think it is.
4:03:41So um with this I ask you to share your
4:03:44information with your again friends,
4:03:46family, aunts, uncles, grandparents. Um
4:03:48we're going to put some social media
4:03:50stuff out there. We're going to pull
4:03:51we'll we'll we'll put the whole video
4:03:53out there. We're going to pull some
4:03:54clips. We I don't care about being
4:03:57viral. I could care less about any of
4:03:58that kind of stuff. I'm a business owner
4:04:00and a family man. I I actually have been
4:04:02more on social media because of
4:04:04legislation than I ever have in the
4:04:06past. Um but I do want this to go viral.
4:04:08We want this to have extraordinary
4:04:11amount of views and for people to see it
4:04:12and hear it and to be aware of again
4:04:16just because your kid is in alone in a
4:04:18room playing a video game does not mean
4:04:21they're alone. So I want to end with
4:04:24that. Again I want to thank everyone
4:04:25here. Thank Georgia State for hosting
4:04:27us. Thank the speaker for giving us this
4:04:29study committee. Um and with that we are
4:04:32ajourned.

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