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Billy McFarland: The Man Behind The Infamous Fyre Festival Disaster | E202 — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 22,275 words · 3,213 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00were you nervous coming here today
0:04I didn't know how in depth we were going
0:05to go if I knew the questions I don't
0:07think go to slept last night but you
0:09were pathological liar Billy McFarland
0:11he is the band behind the infamous fire
0:13Festival Island Getaway turned disaster
0:16for fire Festival is the subject of two
0:19documentaries I will never forget when
0:21did you realize
0:23so wrong we were at the point where the
0:25timeline I had come up with was just so
0:28off I'd wake up some days it's like we
0:30need four million dollars by 2PM did no
0:32one say to you this is [ __ ] craziness
0:33I just didn't have the ability to like
0:35okay like what's actually happening how
0:36can we prevent this and like almost like
0:38as if On Cue
0:40a storm rolls in Billy McFarland pleaded
0:43guilty to fraud charges sentenced to six
0:45years in prison you come back to a
0:47shitstorm yeah the criminality doesn't
0:49stop though does it but I couldn't like
0:51really understand the magnitude and the
0:53gravity of the crime they did commit
0:54your lawyers tried to get you off the
0:5620-year prison sentence by saying that
0:58you suffered from untreated bipolar
1:00disorder do you have bipolar disorder
1:02um
1:04I did two cents in solitary the seven
1:06month stint was because I tried to do a
1:08podcast over at the Payphone they put
1:10the paperwork in to send me to like a
1:11terrorist facility when you're rendered
1:13useless and Powerless bat just kind of
1:16kills your Humanity that's [ __ ] scary
1:18that keeps me up at night
1:21Andy King
1:23did you ask him to suck a penis here's
1:26what actually happened
1:30before this episode starts I have a
1:31small favor to ask from you two months
1:34ago 74 of people that watch this channel
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1:56foreign
2:01[Music]
2:04how are you doing it's been crazy uh
2:07a little less than three and a half
2:09months since my sentence ended
2:12and really just been a whirlwind of
2:15finding the right people finding the
2:17right opportunities
2:19and really just dealing with this
2:21overhang of Probation and the constant
2:24fear that there's someone out there who
2:26could send me back at any time by taking
2:28a wrong turn so
2:31trying to avoid paying people back in
2:33every sense of that word and emotion
2:35while dealing with this fear that I can
2:38wake up one more into a phone call
2:39saying ha like joke's over you're going
2:41back
2:42so take me back um one of the things I'm
2:44so curious about everybody that I sit
2:46here and talk to is their earliest
2:50context in the early start bringing and
2:51how that's like ultimately shaped who
2:53they are today so take me way way back
2:56to New Jersey when you were you know
2:58under the age of 10 what was that what
2:59was your context your parents the the
3:02situation in which you grew up yeah I
3:04grew up in a pretty normal suburban
3:06American household and I think the
3:08defining moment was
3:11when I was 10 years old were I got a
3:14cable internet line into my house and
3:17this was the really early days of the
3:19internet and it was pretty much like the
3:21Wild Wild West era where a lot of like
3:23the framework and Regulation and mature
3:26social platforms that we have now just
3:27didn't exist then we were in the
3:30emphasis of like HTML and CSS and the
3:33practicality and accessibility of some
3:3510 year old putting a website online
3:38and I really found the internet to be
3:40this Outlet where I could push the
3:42boundaries of everything that I thought
3:44was possible as this young Suburban
3:46child and really as a way to start
3:48getting in trouble and seeing what it
3:50was like to get in trouble and see where
3:51I could go
3:52talk to me about your parents I've not
3:54heard um much about them in your
3:56interviews but I'd love to know the
3:58influence they had on you and how that
4:00shaped you I think they're great you
4:01know super loving super supportive and I
4:03think I've been asked this question you
4:04know so many times but whether it's like
4:06the jail therapists like or the
4:08information department and
4:10I think it's interesting that you know
4:12there isn't like a defining moment I
4:14think that kind of set me down like the
4:16entrepreneurial Journey
4:18um
4:19I think I was just like really weird in
4:21this desire to make my own path
4:24and to really test what was possible and
4:27so it's always kind of looking for
4:28Journeys to start businesses and really
4:30like test the bounds of you know of
4:33reality and of the constraints placed on
4:35me at various times in life and
4:37obviously like the constraints of a
4:39ten-year-old are much different than
4:41they were when I was 24 in the midst of
4:43the fire festival and much different at
4:4527 in solitary confinement but I think
4:48the reoccurring theme was trying to find
4:51ways to test those restraints and that
4:54took me to the very best times but also
4:55the very worst times in doing four years
4:58in prison and you know owing the world
5:00whether that's time money friendship and
5:04apology uh so yeah it's been been quite
5:06the journey my question still becomes
5:08like why though so testing the
5:09restraints of like what was possible why
5:12does a kid want to do that like what was
5:14it about about you when you were that
5:16age and your childhood or the
5:17circumstances you found yourself in or
5:19you know what Behavior was being
5:20reinforced and what Behavior was being
5:22punished that made you go off on that
5:24Journey you referenced a sort of a
5:26jailhouse therapist and then probably
5:28asking you these kind of questions as
5:29well yeah did you learn anything about
5:31yourself from that those conversations
5:32totally and
5:35I I think there's always been this
5:37desire to prove that I was different and
5:41I don't think
5:42I really understood like what different
5:43meant I don't think it meant trying to
5:45be like the smartest or the most
5:46interesting I was like trying to prove
5:48that I could create my own path and I
5:50think that's always why been the desire
5:53why did you want to create your empath
5:54and prove that I hear this word proving
5:56a lot throughout your story like a
5:58desire to prove yourself right and prove
6:00yourself to others it comes up over and
6:02over again in the conversations you've
6:03had where did that desire to prove
6:05yourself come from
6:07I think yeah I remember back to like
6:09getting an alpha Smart in you know early
6:12grammar school and I was so desperate to
6:15like hack the teachers like admin
6:17password for the alpha smart to change
6:18the settings on it and just wanted to
6:20show or I think is really proving to
6:22myself that I could do something
6:25different and
6:27I never really did well in terms of like
6:30a structured like learning environment I
6:31was always either like super
6:32disinterested or very very passionate
6:35about something whether it's technology
6:36or computers the Internet and just like
6:38want to dive in and just like almost
6:40testing against myself that I was
6:41possible and what wasn't possible
6:44did those around you like teachers and
6:46your parents have high hopes for you in
6:48your opinion
6:49I think so but they were also you know
6:53I don't want to I don't like the word
6:54like realistic I think they're very like
6:56realistic and structured hopes and my
6:58path was certainly frowned upon by
7:00teachers you know friends uh Etc
7:03throughout the years even when you were
7:05younger people even when I was younger
7:06yeah I think like teachers were always
7:09concerned that like why is he starting a
7:11business and not focusing on his you
7:12know math test so it was it was a
7:15problem since a young age do you
7:16remember getting sort of like critical
7:18or pessimistic feedback at a young age
7:20about your Ambitions and what was
7:22possible for you yeah absolutely and
7:24give me some examples yeah so it's like
7:26uh
7:28I had started a social network a couple
7:30of years later when I was 12 years old
7:32and
7:33this is early days in my space before
7:35Facebook had really gone outside of like
7:37Harvard in the initial Ivy League
7:38schools I created a private Social
7:40Network for my middle school and like
7:42out of nowhere like the site blew up and
7:43you know it was like the talk in middle
7:45school for a few days and the teachers
7:47basically called me in and said like the
7:49internet is not safe you know you have
7:51to stop this right now you have to get
7:52rid of the website and how did that make
7:54you feel
7:54it made me feel like I thought I was
7:56creating something of value but I felt
7:58like that what I viewed as value wasn't
8:01you know agreed upon by everybody else
8:03they'd almost create this like
8:05reinforcement we're like no I know this
8:06is tangible I know this is real and I
8:08know people like are enjoying something
8:10I made and I felt it was just so cool to
8:12have at the time it was hundreds of
8:14people whatever but having hundreds or a
8:15couple thousand people using something I
8:17made as a 12 year old was just really
8:19really interesting to me and I think it
8:22kind of created this
8:23deeper desele and like desire to prove
8:27whether it was to those teachers or to
8:28the friends who like weren't supportive
8:29that there is a different way than you
8:32know the way that we're all taught what
8:34did your parents want you to be you know
8:35like I think my mom wanted me to be I
8:37actually remember my mom's from from
8:39Nigeria she didn't get an education like
8:41uh we do I was born in Botswana in
8:43Africa as well and my mum I think wanted
8:45me to be a doctor or a lawyer okay I
8:47think she was set actually on Doctor
8:48what did your parents want you to be in
8:51your own opinion I don't think they
8:52really cared as long as I followed the
8:54traditional path of like super studying
8:57hard school doing well going to a good
8:59college having a good college experience
9:00I think beyond that
9:02um didn't really care too much I went to
9:04school to study Computer Engineering
9:05didn't last very long so didn't really
9:07you know study Computer Engineering but
9:09that was the uh that was the intent
9:11what's the defining difference between
9:13both of them you know like my mother is
9:15x in terms of characteristics my father
9:17is why what other if you had to describe
9:20them in a couple of words each what
9:21words would you use I think
9:22entrepreneurial uh you know quick like
9:25in terms of like you know quick minds
9:26are sharp they're smart and like honest
9:29I think like Integrity is like the big
9:31thing they're very honest good people
9:33and like that's you know has been part
9:35of the hardest part to me is them and
9:39not just them it's like other family
9:41members and friends trying to understand
9:43how it could go down this path where I
9:45was just lying and you know lying to
9:47investors and partners and employees and
9:49whatever it may have been it's like
9:50understanding how I got there
9:53from you know the the path I had taken
9:55have you had that conversation with them
9:57I have and
9:59it comes down to I think you've you've
10:01nailed it super early on it was just his
10:04desire and I think more than a desire
10:06probably a need to prove myself and fast
10:09forward many many years later with like
10:11fire in the fire Festival that need was
10:13to these these investors who basically
10:15took a chance at me when I first dropped
10:17out of school and had been backing me
10:18for five six seven years before the fire
10:20Festival came to be like
10:22my life I felt and it sounds so silly to
10:26me now but my life I felt to me at that
10:28time was making them happy and making
10:30them money and obviously like the
10:32initial investors if fire didn't work
10:34and didn't work honestly they probably
10:36would have been okay and they would have
10:38been far more understanding than the
10:39fact that I ended up lying at the end to
10:41get their support but it's like need to
10:45prove that I could do it and the ones
10:47who did believe in me the need to prove
10:48that they were right to believe in me
10:51really led me down this terrible
10:53terrible path of however long it was
10:55where I was lying that need to prove
10:57myself
10:58um it can it can go on some fantastic
11:01results in life because you end up
11:03striving and being ambitious and it acts
11:04as a source of motivation but then it
11:06can also
11:07um because I can relate to it it can
11:09also get ugly at some point when that
11:12need overshadows the need to be like
11:14ethical or to even have work-life
11:16balance whatever it might be
11:18have you ever managed in all the time
11:20you've had to reflect on it have you
11:21figured out why you of all people had
11:24that and used the word need not not
11:26desire you you refer to it as a need to
11:29prove yourself like where did that come
11:31from do you do you know I don't know
11:33um
11:34and as I said I've been asked so many
11:36times by people obviously not as smart
11:38as you but I've been asked by a lot of
11:39people and I don't think I've given a
11:41good enough answer and that's probably
11:43something that
11:44I need to think about because it's
11:45dangerous if you you know I'm thinking
11:47about self-awareness here and if that's
11:49still driving you from the back room of
11:50your subconscious
11:52um where that might take you again in
11:53the future right
11:55agree and I think it's more about where
11:58I can find fulfillment and making people
12:02happy because they've made money or
12:04invest in a success
12:06probably is most likely the wrong
12:08formula in a lot of different situations
12:10and I think like especially prison has
12:13made me very very relationship focused
12:16and I feel a stronger need to be trusted
12:19by someone more than to make them happy
12:21and I think that's the furthest area
12:23that I've improved in over the past five
12:25years I've never had you talk about the
12:28um the conversations with your parents
12:30in the wake of everything that happened
12:31and
12:34what what have been those conversations
12:37if I was privy to some of those
12:38conversations in person what would I
12:40have seen
12:42yeah I think I've just
12:44tried to find a way to apologize and
12:46it's been to everybody it's been to
12:48close friends who I think were hurt
12:51emotionally as well other family members
12:53other supporters and it's like trying to
12:55explain to them like why and finding the
12:58real words to apologize
13:00and
13:02it was just so crazy as I've had all
13:05this time to obviously reflect about it
13:06how
13:08I thought I was trying to make people
13:10happy but I was really just like burning
13:12down these relationships and hurting
13:14them along the way and it's just how
13:16messed up that pursuant path really was
13:18have you actually apologized to your
13:20parents oh absolutely yes
13:23and what's their stance been throughout
13:25jail and before and even now how what's
13:28their perspective been
13:30it's been like
13:33close family is different because
13:34obviously we're in touch and you know
13:35everybody
13:36families your family and I think for
13:39like childhood friends who I was
13:42probably closer with like on an
13:43emotional level it's been a little weird
13:45when I essentially was on the sideline
13:47in a way for four years or whatever the
13:49time frame was and then during that time
13:52I'm kind of sheltered from like the
13:54media and the comments and everything
13:55like I don't necessarily hear or even
13:57see everything that's happening and so
13:59like the bulk of that is directed
14:01towards other people like whether it's
14:02family or friends so after so long of
14:04like being The Target just because I'm
14:06not there to be the target they start to
14:08like you know form different opinions
14:10and their minds start to wander and then
14:13I think when I've seen people for the
14:14first time like since jail and then I
14:17can kind of see like a switch flip in
14:19their head after like four or five
14:20minutes like oh okay he's the old Billy
14:22that I used to know and they start like
14:23acting normal again which like really
14:25crazy to me that when I was in jail I
14:28just didn't really understand or
14:29appreciate the terrible [ __ ] basically
14:31that close people to me had to go
14:34through just because I wasn't like
14:35available to
14:37be at the receiving end of everything
14:40that's happened what did they go through
14:43I think like the the emotional trauma
14:45right and people are looking to blame
14:47someone and to you know throw shade and
14:49hate and I deservedly say I want someone
14:51and if I'm not there like to be able to
14:53take that hake some physically locked
14:55away somewhere people need a target for
14:56it and you know unfortunately I think
14:59for a lot of people who and I learned
15:00this in jail too A lot of people in jail
15:01the ones that take it the hardest are
15:03the friends and family is because
15:05they're not the one they're not the
15:06reason why you're there but they suffer
15:08almost the most from it it's just it's
15:09not fair did they tell you that they had
15:11been on the receiving end of that that
15:13abuse yeah and a lot of friends too you
15:16know what what kind of abuse do they
15:18tell you explicitly what kind of abuse
15:20they'd been on the receiving end of
15:22I think it's just like the mental and
15:24it's like emotional anguish
15:25um
15:27I've had like friends even who didn't
15:30work with me but you know who were super
15:31close and around for a lot of the build
15:33up of the events and whether it's from
15:35like their family or their friends or
15:37their employers like how could you not
15:38know how could you have been with him
15:40and
15:41people are looking for I think the
15:43public looks for someone to blame and if
15:45I wasn't there to receive that blame or
15:46wasn't responding to it that blame they
15:48just look for other targets and like
15:50I think that's what crushed me the most
15:52is on this limited contact with friends
15:55or family whatever from jail like
15:57hearing
15:58the sadness and abuse they were taking
16:01and being able to do absolutely nothing
16:04about it just like totally powerless
16:08going back into a story it's you know I
16:10was reading through all of the sort of
16:11entrepreneurial endeavors
16:13you you did as a as a young man even
16:15before the age of like 15 years old
16:17you'd started companies you'd sold
16:19companies
16:20um just just a long long list of
16:22continually starting another business
16:23starting at like nine years old you
16:25started programming 13 you start this um
16:28this this Outsourcing startup which
16:30eventually gets sold on an auction site
16:33called um your hot site I believe and
16:36then at 15 years old you create a
16:37company called 24 scene which is
16:39eventually sold to Buddy TV when you
16:41were 15 years old you go off to you
16:44graduate at 18 from I guess high school
16:45high school yeah we call it different
16:47things in the UK
16:48um you go to university and in your
16:50freshman year you drop out and start a
16:51company called spling and you raise four
16:54hundred thousand dollars in a series a
16:55round for this company called spling at
16:5718 years old right the financing around
16:59today are a little different so this is
17:01this is like 2010 but yeah crazy how the
17:03world's change right yeah yeah so you
17:05raised that Capital at 18 years old yes
17:08is that your first sort of window into
17:11the fact or point of awareness we think
17:13[ __ ] I can raise capital for things that
17:15I have ideas for I think the biggest
17:16thing there was
17:18having someone so much smarter and older
17:23and like more successful than me
17:24actually like believe in me and back it
17:27up
17:28the idea to like any friend in any
17:30family that I'm taking time off school
17:32or dropping out of school was like
17:33totally not okay but the fact that I can
17:36point to like a small group of these
17:38early investors who were clearly like
17:40established and you know
17:42like amazing
17:44almost like icons in their own fields
17:47that was when I was like look I have
17:48this real group who is supporting me
17:52beyond their words and I need to show
17:54not just them but I need to show the
17:56world that these people were right and
17:57everybody else who was saying like what
17:59I'm doing is wrong is incorrect who was
18:01saying you were wrong at that age 18. he
18:03was betting against you I think like
18:05every peer you know all your friends all
18:08the friends all your family members I
18:09think all your family members
18:11at all I think the majority um and I
18:13think that the big thing was like
18:15my friends at that age who especially
18:18like the ones who like did better in
18:19school and you know probably a little
18:20bit smarter
18:22it's just really as much as like they
18:24can't admit it and I know I do this to
18:26other people too so I think I see it as
18:27much as they can't do it like they don't
18:29want to see someone and obviously we're
18:31super young at that age but succeed
18:33Beyond them and it's like hey I'm
18:35studying 70 hours a week you know I know
18:37I'm smarter than he is and I'm working
18:39just as hard or harder than him you know
18:41why can he go and do this and I can't so
18:43I think that's kind of like a a mantra
18:46that you know I've noticed a lot amongst
18:48like close friends and obviously I see
18:49that same behavior in myself so yeah I
18:50think that that bar just sucks on spling
18:53yeah it was an Avenue for you to
18:55eventually move to New York yes what
18:57happened to that company eventually
18:58failed yeah so uh moved to New York
19:00actually in the second ever we work
19:02space in New York uh this is 2011 I
19:06think yeah it's a second ever we work
19:07space in New York and spling starter is
19:10a social network and I was kind of like
19:11parlaying off of what I had built in you
19:13know middle school and high school and
19:14you know had this really small you know
19:16websites that ended up selling which is
19:17great
19:18um the social networking aspect display
19:20never really took off and ended up
19:22making software and started to sell it
19:24to like these record labels and TV
19:26networks and I was like the Suburban kid
19:29who was already weird for programming
19:31and now I'm the Suburban kid who's weird
19:33for programming crazy for dropping out
19:35of school and now I'm sitting in the
19:37office with you know the heads of these
19:39like massive media companies that we've
19:40all heard of that like I didn't even
19:42know really like existed like to go meet
19:44with like the boss at Def Jam or Hearst
19:47or like Discovery or Disney like all
19:49these companies that were just like a
19:50logo on TV for me as a young kid I was
19:53now like tangibly there and they were
19:54like paying for something I was building
19:55it was just a wild experience to go from
19:59you know being in a dorm room in the
20:01middle of nowhere to
20:02in the midst of the entertainment World
20:04in New York and so at some point you
20:05make the decision to close spling down
20:07so spring was going and I just got super
20:10distracted
20:11by these entertainment companies that I
20:14was going to and like I kept trying to
20:16tell back like these childhood friends I
20:18kept trying to explain to them like what
20:19was happening they didn't really believe
20:21me and now it's really the Genesis of
20:23magnesis was that I wanted to take like
20:25the 19 year old me who wasn't working at
20:28spling and give him access to this world
20:30of like entertainment and fashion and
20:33like media that I was like finding
20:34myself stumbling into in New York and so
20:37I'm trying to get to the point of like
20:38there comes a day where you go
20:40I mean I've had this in my life my first
20:42startup yeah as well when I was
20:43literally 18 and then I left it at 20
20:45inside my next business but there's a
20:47day where you go
20:48[ __ ] that I'm gonna do magnesis instead
20:51so I basically said [ __ ] that I'm gonna
20:53do magnesis but like still keeps playing
20:54going so okay yeah so spring now is like
20:57my biggest mistake so explain kept
20:59operating for you know a few years with
21:01let's say 10 to 15 hours of a week of
21:03attention Okay whereas like you know the
21:05vast majority of my time was focused on
21:07magnesis I think like one of the
21:08reoccurring themes is just not seeing
21:10things through and like it happened
21:12again with my nieces into fire but like
21:14jumping ship when
21:16spring would not have been as big as
21:18magnesium or fire could have been but it
21:20still could have it still was okay and
21:21like I could have had a successful exit
21:24for people who were involved and just
21:25like not seeing that through it was just
21:27wrong
21:28reoccurring theme yeah
21:31um I mean I see that throughout your
21:32childhood and then internally into early
21:34sort of twenties yeah that that um that
21:38I guess ambition
21:39and that sort of constant inspiration
21:42you have leads you to kind of abandon
21:43the last thing and and an entrepreneur's
21:46currency is their time and attention so
21:48as you as you cited there it's finite it
21:51means that the old thing gets a fraction
21:52of your time when really if it's going
21:54to succeed in that market it needs more
21:56than all of your time yes um this leads
21:58you on to magnesis in 2013 yeah we
22:00launched 15 2014 eventually yeah
22:02magnesis was a tell me tell me what it
22:04was and why you chose to switch your
22:07attention to this yeah so magnesis was
22:10a network that was seeking to give young
22:14people living in major cities access to
22:17better benefits events and networking
22:19than their like credit card would give
22:20them
22:21so like literally this is 2012 I just I
22:25started doing the magnesis card before
22:27it launched I went in Alibaba this is
22:29like 10 years ago before Alibaba is
22:31Alibaba bought this like blank black
22:34sheet of metal and a Credit Card Copier
22:36and literally went and copied my like
22:38really crappy debit card with 20 onto it
22:41onto this like black metal card and just
22:44like went to the pizza parlor across the
22:46street and the guy just made a total
22:48scene when I went to pay and went and
22:49showed the card off around wework and
22:51started selling cards to like
22:52interesting entrepreneurs at wework and
22:55that was like literally the Genesis of
22:56magnesis and the cool of the proposition
22:58was that it was kind of elite and
23:00exclusive yeah so it was definitely
23:02trying to cater towards this like
23:04upwardly mobile
23:06entrepreneur style crowd
23:09that feels like a through line across
23:11many of your businesses that went on
23:12which was like appealing to people's
23:14desire for
23:17status and clout because when I was
23:20reading about magnesis at the end of the
23:21day it felt like it was a a black metal
23:24card which was again appealing to
23:26people's egos because everybody wants
23:27that American Express black card but
23:29they can't get it because you need to
23:30spend you need to spend like a quarter
23:31of a million to get it yeah so it makes
23:33people feel amazing and then you're
23:34promising them
23:36the application process was only a few
23:38people could apply it was all appealing
23:40to that people's desire to be
23:42that's what it started out when I was
23:44like 19 or 20 whatever the time was and
23:46then it ended up growing and the real
23:48benefit was in network and there were
23:51certain members or card holders who were
23:53meeting other members and kind of giving
23:55them value and I think like the first
23:57concept of magnesis was one I wanted the
24:00black card for sure now it was like the
24:01fun novelty like more of the marketing
24:03aspect of it but two is I wanted like a
24:05vehicle to share and really invite my
24:08friends to all these like Entertainment
24:11Properties where I was starting to
24:12experience and explore because they
24:14didn't believe me so it was almost like
24:16show them what I was telling them was
24:17actually happening and have an excuse to
24:19bring people along through this club or
24:22Community built around magnesis and you
24:24raised capital for magnesium 1.5 million
24:26before you launched and then three point
24:27something off yeah I think that the
24:29total was in like the mid mid threes
24:31yeah so nothing crazy like but okay and
24:34um jar rule comes into the picture
24:35sometime around the magnesis yeah so it
24:38started basically like once again
24:39magnesium is all about One fulfilling
24:41like my fantasies of places I wanted to
24:43go and can get to and then once I was
24:45there having all of my friends come too
24:48and I just like loved hip-hop as a kid
24:50so throughout magnesis we booked
24:52probably close to a dozen and a half or
24:54even like 20 rappers to come perform
24:56these small concerts for magnesis and
24:59that's what started the whole ball
25:00rolling towards like the fire app and
25:03that concept so when did you meet Ja
25:04Rule uh during one of these magnesis
25:07member events and the thing that's
25:10really struck me at the time was how
25:12hard it was to book him
25:14and when he finally like received the
25:16offer he said yes and like almost like
25:19instantly right and the problem was this
25:21like web of
25:22quasi-agents and middle management
25:24managers who all kind of claimed like
25:26represent another talent but in reality
25:28they knew someone who knew like a sister
25:29who knew a brother who knew a cousin and
25:31it's like this terrible
25:32really like opaque nasty world and
25:36coming from like a technology background
25:37it made no sense to me I knew there were
25:39other like kids like me right who would
25:41you know pay something reasonable to get
25:42access to this kind of like music Talent
25:44so we started talking about building an
25:46app which ended up becoming the fire app
25:48to provide like a window into like
25:51entertainers pockets for anybody to give
25:53them offers directly and because of that
25:55experience with Ja Rule and just general
25:56General artist booking that's what that
25:58was the Genesis of this fire app that
26:00was a complete Genesis was like booking
26:02a lot of these rappers through magnesis
26:04realizing that almost every single time
26:07we were going through middlemen who like
26:09weren't really like the the manager of
26:11the agent and then realizing okay I now
26:13had this network of you know 20 artists
26:15and their real managers so I can give
26:17like access to other people through
26:18technology
26:20and from what I was reading
26:22um this is the when one of the first big
26:25lies was told which was around the
26:27success of fire mobile app I read this I
26:30think I can't remember where I saw it
26:31might have been the Hulu documentary or
26:33something it said that an internship to
26:34investors it was claimed to be worth 90
26:36million dollars but was actually doing
26:3860k in business what is the truth around
26:41that where was the where was the LIE
26:43told here yeah so the fire app and the
26:45fire Festival really all come together
26:47at the same time
26:49um
26:50it's crazy to think back like how how
26:53quick I went down a bad path but how
26:55quick everything happened as well during
26:57that time period
26:58this is all 2016. um the fire app was
27:01launched at some point mid-2016 and the
27:04fire Festival was you know conceived in
27:06September October of 2016. so it was all
27:09kind of around the same time Wi-Fi
27:11Festival how did that come to be that
27:13because the fire app came first fire out
27:15came first how did you get from there to
27:16fire Festival so we had a townhouse
27:19space basically this Clubhouse if you
27:21will for magnesis members and one of the
27:23people working at the front desk I lived
27:25a handful of blocks away calls me one
27:26night and says there's this guy here who
27:29is building some crazy things at Google
27:31but he says he flies planes and wants to
27:33fly you I think he's telling the truth
27:34you have to come and meet him so I ran
27:36over the townhouse and met this guy and
27:38like absolute genius like one of the
27:40best
27:42like developers of AI I've ever met in
27:44my life and you know he's going to go on
27:46to I think change your world in very
27:47many ways but he's like listen like I
27:49Fly for Fun I have a bunch of friends
27:51who do the same thing we should take a
27:53few planes and do a trip to the outer
27:54islands of the Bahamas for your
27:55magnesium members so we've been running
27:57these trips for years
27:59and I found these outer Islands to
28:01essentially be this like welcoming
28:03playground where there might be 10
28:05people who live on the island who are
28:06just like so amazing and kind-hearted
28:08and warm and once you bring 18 20 24
28:11people there from New York everybody
28:13kind of drops like their pretense and if
28:16you connect them around these like
28:18almost like life-defying experiences and
28:20Adventures they really really come
28:22together so it was running these trips
28:25for a number of years when I literally
28:27brought like one of these childhood
28:28friends that I mentioned and fire app
28:30had just launched he said hey man you
28:32should totally do a music festival here
28:34for all magnesis members so that was the
28:36real person who came up with the idea
28:37and that's how the fire Festival
28:39happened and when was where was the the
28:41first light holding yeah in the
28:43fundraising process was it on raising
28:45capital for the app was it capsule for
28:47the magnesis yeah so the the fire
28:50um
28:52the fire Festival app didn't raise much
28:56money prior to like the festival
28:57announcement
28:59we came up with a festival idea in
29:02September of 2016.
29:05shot and released at promotional video I
29:07think a lot of people saw in December of
29:092016 and announced a April of 2017 like
29:12launch date so the period was super
29:14super short so somewhere in like the
29:16weeks leading up to that December
29:18promotional video I started lying and
29:21that was lying to Fire apps investors
29:23lying to fire festivals investors lying
29:25about magnesius's numbers it all kind of
29:28hit when
29:30oh [ __ ] fire Festival is real we're
29:33announcing a festival we have X number
29:35of months to build a city in the middle
29:36of nowhere how the [ __ ] are we gonna do
29:38this that's just like set me off down
29:40that that path
29:42from
29:44I think from what I recall there was
29:46four months between you announcing the
29:48festival and the festival happening so
29:50you're going to the middle of nowhere
29:52you've got to build sewage yeah
29:55infrastructure basically a city from
29:57scratch at 25 years old with
30:02out the capital to do it and without the
30:05experience in doing it in
30:08four months in 120 days so stupid
30:12so bad
30:14I think I I got my 25th birthday we
30:17launched the trailer for The Fire
30:19Festival
30:20and I still didn't think it was real at
30:22that time like we had these great trips
30:24with a few dozen people and those we
30:26could totally handle we launched a
30:28trailer then I remember waking up like
30:30you know quasi hung over five or six
30:32hours later and we'd sold like a half
30:34million dollars to tickets if I said
30:36that to people now in my team and you
30:38know I've you know I'm I'm 30 now same
30:40age as you yeah um you know I've got
30:43huge amounts of resources in terms of
30:45like contacts and capital everyone in my
30:47team would turn around to me and give me
30:49that look and say this is not possible
30:51Stephen
30:53did people say that to you
30:55did no one say to you this is [ __ ]
30:57craziness absolutely and I think that
31:00part of the curse and and part of the
31:02gift at the time was
31:04a lot of their reasons that were being
31:06given to me by things were impossible
31:09we're all solved with these short-term
31:11Miracles and of course everybody said
31:12hey the end goal is impossible you're a
31:14[ __ ] like you don't understand like
31:16what this takes
31:17and then they would give three or four
31:18reasons about like smaller problems
31:20right and then I would go and like
31:22create Magic and solve these three or
31:24four problems and be like look we've
31:26proved that like we can handle the
31:27bigger stuff too and I think it just
31:29took
31:30so many random like rolls of the dice to
31:34go our way to be able to create a
31:36failure so large because if we found
31:40like a stumbling block or a roadblock
31:41earlier on it would have stopped the
31:43whole thing but it was like this weird
31:45combination of
31:46smart crazy people all kind of coming
31:49together for this wild idea and solving
31:52things we should never been able to
31:54solve until we couldn't
31:55lying plays a big role in that though
31:57100 I think you have to add line to the
31:59mix because I don't think he would have
32:00gotten those people to that Island on
32:02that plane without a series of
32:05almost like nuns stop lying there's no
32:07way that you would have well in my view
32:10um if people knew the reality of my view
32:12if people knew the reality of the
32:13numbers and the situation on the ground
32:15and I remember watching the
32:16documentaries which I know you haven't
32:17seen yeah still no yeah we're going to
32:19talk about that but I remember seeing
32:21the there were moments where you were
32:22saying to team members don't don't tell
32:24this investor the nature of the
32:26situation and had you been honest I
32:28think investors from my experience of
32:30building companies would not have backed
32:31this the reality of the situation if if
32:34they knew the truth they wouldn't have
32:35backed that agree
32:37I always think that like lying hurt
32:39things the most
32:42they lying
32:44really pushed away the help that I
32:46needed and I think that how we just
32:49announced the festival with our trailer
32:51video
32:52we had already proven our ability to you
32:54know create hype to bring a manageable
32:57number of people to these islands to
32:58give them like an amazing experience
33:00if I just like threw my like hands up
33:03the next day and said okay I didn't
33:04expect to sell this many tickets and I
33:06don't have the resources or or like
33:08wherewithal to actually execute this now
33:11I think the professionals would have
33:12flocked to me and said okay like we are
33:14experts in doing this like let us take
33:15over and you do what you're good at but
33:17like let us you know be the adults in
33:19the room and make this thing actually
33:20happen and why didn't you put your hands
33:22up and say that I I that's like a type
33:25of lawsuit over the past five years but
33:28that's where we're like Beyond lying
33:29like breaking all the ethics and morals
33:30which like totally didn't totally wrong
33:32it pushed away to help
33:34are you a pathological liar
33:37this is a claim that I've I've heard
33:38leveled at you by the judge in your case
33:40by other people that were working on
33:42fire Festival
33:44um people in the documentaries
33:46yeah I think like my entire
33:49Mantra and drive right now is to form
33:52like super super close relationships and
33:55I want those six or eight people
33:59to never question my integrity and I
34:01think like getting on a microphone and
34:03telling the world hey guys like I'm not
34:04a pathological liar he's like yeah shut
34:05the [ __ ] up but it's like I want to feel
34:08Pride where I can like go home tonight
34:09and I know like these six to eight
34:11people that I can call or they can call
34:12me you know we will have our backs and I
34:15really don't have the answer in terms of
34:17like how I adjust it to the world but
34:18it's like the six to eight people and
34:20you guys know who you are like
34:22let's build that trust because that's
34:24one of the even when I was thinking
34:25about doing this interview obviously you
34:26know the foundation of the Diary of SEO
34:27is honesty yeah and I'm thinking after
34:29all this stuff I've seen in these
34:30documentaries how do I know that he's
34:32not just going to come here and [ __ ]
34:33me yeah how do I know that I'm not going
34:34to be one of the investors or one of the
34:36other people that was was lied to how do
34:38I know he's going to give me the truth
34:39yeah
34:40how do you receive that
34:43it's just so hard to hear like it's it's
34:46super hard to hear and I think like
34:48natural reaction is to always like fight
34:51back and argue oh I'm not a lie of then
34:52you just like and it's just like
34:54digs you down
34:56a further hole
34:58so I think it's just finding pride in a
35:01different area and it's like I am highly
35:02flawed and like any claims made to the
35:05contrary are just are wrong and for
35:07whatever good ideas I've had I've had
35:09you know 10 times many bad ones and like
35:11clearly I Allied to an extent that
35:14I would really hope that the vast
35:16majority of the population like would
35:17never be comfortable doing so yeah I
35:20highly highly flawed and I think like
35:22the next 30 years of my life will be
35:23defined by can I focus on my skill set
35:27can I be honest with a small number of
35:30people around me and like can I get help
35:31in those areas where I clearly need it
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36:33for many years people have been asking
36:36for a coffee flavored Hill and quite
36:39recently he'll release the iced coffee
36:41caramel flavor of their
36:43um ready to drink Hills and I've just
36:45become hooked on it over the last couple
36:47of weeks I've been on a really
36:48interesting Journey with huel which I've
36:50described and talked about a little bit
36:51on this podcast I started with the berry
36:53ready to drinks then I moved over to the
36:55protein salted caramel because it's 100
36:57calories and it gives you all of your
36:58essential vitamins and minerals but also
37:00gives you the 20 odd grams of protein
37:02you need and now I'm balanced between
37:04them both I drink mostly the banana
37:07flavor ready to drink I've got really
37:08into the iced coffee caramel flavor of
37:11heels ready to drink and now I'm
37:12drinking that as well as the protein
37:14make sure you try the new ready to drink
37:16flavors that the caramel flavor is
37:18amazing the new banana flavor as well is
37:21amazing and obviously as I said the iced
37:23coffee caramel flavor has been a real
37:25Smash Hit so check it out let me know
37:27what you think on social media I see all
37:29of your tags and Instagram posts and
37:30tweets about your you haven't watched
37:32the documentaries no
37:37the first prison I was at or like when
37:40they appeared when they came out the uh
37:42the guys got like a USB stick with both
37:44the documentaries and watched them and I
37:46was like I literally went outside I
37:47think I was like one of two people who
37:48wasn't in the TV room watching the
37:50documentary but couldn't do it why
37:53I think at that time
37:54I was still like this is early 2019 so I
37:58was less than a year into my sentence I
38:01think I was still like in the combative
38:02phase where I just hadn't like come to
38:05reality with everything that happened
38:07and I was too scared to hear allegations
38:10or comments by other people and not be
38:12able to respond and I like realized like
38:14being locked up
38:16and then having someone say something
38:18where it's probably like 70 true and 30
38:20false I wouldn't have like focused on or
38:23internalized the part that was true even
38:25though that was probably most of it I
38:26just would have gotten enraged by the
38:28false part but I wouldn't be able to do
38:30anything about it so I felt like if I
38:31was not like stable enough or mature
38:33enough
38:34at that time to to watch it and I
38:36probably still I'm not but really yeah
38:38because I was gonna ask you to follow up
38:39was why haven't you watched them now
38:41then if that was 2019 in 2022 now so why
38:44haven't you watched them still so I
38:46caught myself the other day someone
38:47asked me the same question and I said
38:49and I think this show is like I'm not
38:51like mature enough to watch it yet I
38:52said no one in this is probably slightly
38:55true but exaggerated I said no one real
38:57interviewed for the documentary like why
38:59would any business person who has
39:01anything going on in their life you know
39:02attach themselves to the event that's
39:04mostly true obviously but but still some
39:06of the people who did interview I'm sure
39:08were you know sharing real stories of
39:10real things that happened so I'm just
39:12I'm not ready there's no way I don't
39:14know why but I'm not ready
39:17because of how it might make you it
39:19might trigger you in some type of way or
39:20I think so and yeah I just I did ask
39:23myself I said would you if that happened
39:25to me when I watched the documentaries
39:27and I'm gonna be honest I don't know
39:29yeah I don't know but you must
39:32everywhere you go now have
39:33piece together those documentaries
39:35because people like me ask you seven
39:37questions for sure
39:39unfortunately I think I've heard more
39:41than than I wanted to but I think I
39:43understand
39:44how do you feel about the fact that like
39:47probably for at least some time now the
39:49center point of conversations you have
39:51and interviews you do is going to Center
39:53on
39:54that that's gonna like that's gonna be a
39:56real defining thing for for many that
39:58meet you I think it's super interesting
40:01like
40:02think about personally and it's almost
40:05like weird because a lot of the people
40:07who have watched documentary whether
40:09they're friends or family members other
40:10people
40:11their advice is like you are incompetent
40:14you can't do anything going forward like
40:16you know go work some entry level like
40:19desk job for 70 hours a week for the
40:20rest of your life and and shut up and I
40:23think it's kind of like ironic right
40:25because then you're stuck living with
40:28the remorse the guilt the failure of
40:31what you did before and I think the
40:33other option is
40:35can I go about it but go for it and go
40:37for it honestly and if I fail it's okay
40:39but you know at least take the swing and
40:42like which path would you know make you
40:44prouder and I've chosen the latter which
40:46might be right it might be wrong but I
40:48just think it's really weird to me how a
40:50lot of like the close friends who have
40:52watched a documentary almost all their
40:54advice have just been like you can't do
40:56anything now and maybe they're right but
40:58it's like that's been like I think
40:59that's the hardest thing to internalize
41:00from the whole
41:01like after effect process where we
41:03currently stand
41:04well you've clearly got a
41:07internal bias to just prove everybody
41:09wrong which doesn't seem to have left
41:11you right so when you hear that the
41:13Billy that I mean I've come to learn in
41:14the last you know couple of minutes
41:16speaking together with just 100 use that
41:19as fuel right I think like
41:22I find Pride differently now and when
41:24you're locked away for four years and
41:26ten months like when you're alone or
41:27with a cellmate but like in solitary
41:29confinement you can't leave you have to
41:31find pride in like the littlest and
41:33weirdest things and you know once you
41:35leave 95 of it it's just like irrelevant
41:37and gets out the window but I think like
41:39finding pride is where it stands and
41:42do I want to be the the guy who's honest
41:44but quit or the guy who's honest but
41:46went for it and then whatever the
41:48outcome is the outcome is and like to me
41:49I can find more pride in that path
41:52fire Festival you raise more than 20
41:55million dollars
41:58now that alone is not an easy thing to
42:00do
42:02you know lying yeah definitely aided
42:05that for 100 but even if people were
42:08lying even if someone was just purely
42:10lying there's still an element of
42:12salesmanship that goes into
42:15accomplishing such a big investment
42:18raise for a first-time Music Festival
42:21when you're 25 years old
42:23what are your skill sets that that made
42:26that happen let's just lying it we put
42:28that on the table you lied yeah but what
42:30are the other skill sets that
42:32enabled that massive failure
42:35so I think it's like taking a second to
42:37like dive into the lies and why it was
42:39so bad I think there's like a
42:41misconception at least from what I've
42:43heard that I woke up one day made a fake
42:46spreadsheet which is totally true and
42:47then with that spreadsheet you know went
42:49and raised a bunch of money I think the
42:51reality is it's like not that simple you
42:53know I can make a bad spreadsheet
42:55tomorrow without my background and
42:56you're just not going to go and raise 20
42:58million dollars straight it's like it
43:00doesn't go like that
43:01I think the hardest part is a trust is
43:03that the majority of the people who are
43:05backing me
43:06had either invested in me since I was 19
43:08years old or I'd see me work since I was
43:1019 or were you know referred or trusted
43:14someone like who fell into one of those
43:15camps so it was like six years of
43:19trust and failure and struggle that I
43:22had to go through to get to the position
43:24where I could even ask for that kind of
43:26money so more than the lie but the
43:29revenue at the time which I almost think
43:30is not as bad as betraying the trust of
43:34the years it took to get to that point
43:35where I was even in the position to lie
43:37about the revenue
43:40so there's that trust building which
43:41again the jury's probably out on whether
43:43that trust was built honestly yeah
43:45because you talked about
43:47magnesis also being inflated in terms of
43:49the numbers they're being lies there but
43:52then your personal skill like what is it
43:53in hindsight you think why did these
43:56people
43:57back me as an individual what are your
43:59skill sets like Charisma or is it your
44:01ability to talk your communication
44:02skills what was it I almost think that
44:04you could find
44:06similarities in these early trips that
44:09led to the fire Festival in some of the
44:11magnesis experiences which
44:13is taking people who wouldn't usually
44:16meet bringing them together and then
44:19taking them to a place
44:21they've never been before whether that's
44:23like
44:23a jet ski race at midnight around these
44:26like uninhabited islands or like spear
44:28fishing for your own Lobster with
44:30someone you've always wanted to meet
44:31it's about just like connecting
44:33interesting people with like a tinge of
44:36crazy around these adventures and like
44:38those Adventures could be physical it
44:40could be virtual but that's kind of
44:41always been I think what is intrigued
44:45backer someone that's a friend a partner
44:47a sponsor an investor is to be part of
44:50that
44:51you know tornado of activity and
44:53connection and excitement interesting so
44:55the people so what I got from that is
44:56the people that invested in you wanted
44:58the same thing as the people that bought
44:59tickets to fire Festival they wanted to
45:01be part of something really really cool
45:03themselves they wanted to meet
45:04interesting people and do interesting
45:07crazy [ __ ] like that's like that's the
45:09ammo and you ended up selling some 8 000
45:11tickets for two weekends at fire
45:13Festival yeah
45:14I mean everyone remembers the orange
45:17tile campaign and the use of influencers
45:19and we had Kendall Jenner Bella Hadid
45:21Haley Baldwin Emily ratatowski and you
45:24shot this in this promo video
45:26um in the Bahamas which became pretty
45:28viral because no one had ever seen that
45:31group of influences together before yeah
45:34um
45:35at that point you know you know you know
45:38two months three months out from the
45:39festival you've sold these [ __ ]
45:41tickets this is when the lies get really
45:44bad out there like in one of the
45:46documentaries it says that you put a
45:47villa up on the site for a quarter of a
45:49million to try and raise some money that
45:51you didn't have
45:52um and then I read further and further
45:53and I was trying to understand the world
45:55you were in that was causing you to
45:56continually lie and lie and lie and I
45:58heard about this urgent payment sheet
46:00what was this urgent payment shame how
46:02is that driving you we were at the point
46:04where the timeline that
46:07I had come up with it was just so off
46:09and ridiculous
46:12it just like made all the payments and
46:14vendors just kind of go through the roof
46:16in terms like the cost to make something
46:18happen so quickly and like we just had
46:19no money right we were just trying to
46:21get money from any Source whether it was
46:22investors or sponsors or customers or
46:24ticket sales consulting jobs I was like
46:27you know wearing 10 hats to trying to
46:29get the income we needed to fund the
46:30fire Festival
46:32and
46:33the money crunch was so bad I'd
46:35literally wake up every day you know at
46:379am to a sheet where we had a list of
46:40every payment we had to make before the
46:41bank wire cut off at four o'clock that
46:43day so I knew that by 2 pm I'd have that
46:46money come into our account is the team
46:48had enough time to wire it out before
46:49the four o'clock wire deadline and so
46:52I'd wake up some days it's like we need
46:53four million dollars by 2PM so I'd have
46:56five hours to go out Source the
46:57investors
46:58come to terms with them and actually get
47:00the money in the account or else people
47:02are dead in the water four million yeah
47:04we managed to survive like this for
47:06almost 60 days and some days it was 100
47:08Grand and some days it was four million
47:10dollars but like it was it was Wild on
47:12that day that it was four million
47:13dollars you got till 2PM
47:16what'd you do start started calling
47:18investors and saying well I think like
47:23I was telling them we were [ __ ] unless
47:24we had this money and I think that like
47:26a lot of the investors almost adapted
47:29a similar mindset to me that we're in so
47:33far that hey we've already spent X
47:35what's an extra couple million dollars
47:37at this point because if this thing
47:38works we're all going to make money
47:40and that was the that was the mindset
47:43that I was trying to build and I truly
47:44believed obviously it was so silly now
47:46to look back on because one of the in
47:49one of the documentaries they paid they
47:51paint the opposite picture they say that
47:52you were calling investors and not
47:54telling them the extent of how bad
47:56things were because yeah there was one
47:58particular moment where you'd sent an
47:59email telling someone not to tell the
48:01investor the true nature of the
48:02situation with the accommodation because
48:04they wouldn't give more money so the
48:05documentary tells a completely different
48:07story about being opaque yeah
48:11untransparent to investors in those
48:12crunch moments I think like one of the
48:15bad thing is is I definitely sheltered
48:19information like not every investor
48:22would have the same information not
48:23every team member of the same
48:24information so I certainly kept
48:26a lot of the logistical problems in the
48:28dark
48:29but if I knew like one investor could
48:31solve this problem you know I would tell
48:33them about the logistics problem
48:34but then say don't tell anybody else but
48:36we need your help here so I was picking
48:38and choosing people who I thought would
48:39be sympathetic or capable of handling
48:41certain situations so I mean terrible
48:43approach but it was like a mix of hey
48:45we're in this far we need a little bit
48:47more so give it to us and also a mix of
48:49well we can't tell everybody this
48:50because if people realize you know we
48:53need
48:54four million dollars by two o'clock
48:55today we sound crazy and we're dead
48:58people hearing that situation where you
49:00have this urgent payment sheet and
49:01you're waking up in the morning and it
49:03says 100K on it 250k yeah um four
49:06million yeah
49:07um one of the things in the documentary
49:08showed that you were
49:10popping up like fake Villas and stuff
49:13like that to meet the debt owed on that
49:16payment sheet so if you owed if you
49:17needed 50k that day pop a villa online
49:20call it the Dolphin Villa sell it for
49:2350k and that would cover the decision is
49:25that true I don't think it was as one to
49:27one as that right um
49:29we certainly were trying to sell as many
49:31expensive ticket packages possible that
49:33didn't exist that whether it was like
49:35boats or Yachts that like you know we
49:37would go in Charter or whether it was
49:39like high-end Villas that we were trying
49:41to rent but they didn't have them at the
49:43time
49:44so I think our numbers were not like one
49:46to one at the end of the day however we
49:47did rent a couple hundred Villas so I
49:49know I've heard so many conflicting like
49:51stories from this but you know we did
49:52rent a couple hundred Villas and uh I'm
49:55sure we were off by a number but it
49:57wasn't like hey we had no Villas on the
49:58island there was a quarter million
50:00dollar package for like a villa or a
50:02yacht or something yeah did that sell
50:05um I think we sold a couple couple boats
50:07for like in that range quarter million
50:09dollars and then we had there was a
50:10couple houses in the island which were
50:11like these like 10 bedroom you know like
50:13private estate type things we sold a
50:16number of them I don't think it was like
50:17it wasn't tons but we sold a couple well
50:19the boats did the boats exist yeah on
50:22the day we partnered with like basically
50:23like this like yacht brokerage company
50:25so we would just like ride it through
50:26there
50:27and as the so going back to my point
50:29about that urgent payment sheet you just
50:31said that you'd wake up like yeah wake
50:33up on days look at the Urgent payment
50:35sheet that you should you'd be like oh
50:36[ __ ]
50:38now I've I've sat here with um the CEO
50:41of one of the disruptor banks out in
50:43Europe called Tom monzo and he talked
50:45about the like mental torment he had a a
50:47red phone by his bed he's running a bank
50:49here yeah so he'd wake up every day and
50:52he'd have a moment of like Dread waking
50:53up because
50:55the stress and the pressure of you know
50:57having to run a bank when you're waking
50:59up one of those days yeah what is the
51:01like the mental health implication what
51:02did you feel
51:04it was awful and I think
51:06the one benefit and detriment that I had
51:09was an end date like this is all going
51:12to end on whether right or wrong like on
51:14the Festival date right where they're
51:16going to succeed and like be Champions
51:18or we're gonna drastically fail and
51:21either way like let's go all in to try
51:22to make that happen
51:24and what was the you say the word awful
51:25take me into the world's word awful give
51:27me a description of what that actually
51:28means in reality what are the symptoms
51:29of that I mean I was fat as [ __ ] like my
51:32heart was out of rhythm you know your
51:34heart was out of rhythm yeah like I
51:35think like
51:36lost interest in
51:39sexual relationships lost interest in
51:41like friendship relationships that
51:42weren't transactional and it became like
51:45all work and nothing else mattered I'm
51:48like look terrible felt terrible and I
51:50could just it sucks and I can't imagine
51:51like the red phone at the bank because
51:53like that's never ending right like
51:55maybe you can say Hey you know I'll sell
51:57or hire a new CEO in seven years but I
51:59can't imagine like that kind of window I
52:01would yeah well he ultimately quit after
52:03seven years building out of business I
52:04think it was valued a billion billions
52:06when he quit and when he did a piece in
52:08one of the newspapers he cited his
52:10mental health
52:11um yeah did you experience anxiety
52:14for sure
52:15um
52:18I was I was afraid to show weakness
52:19right so it's like
52:22I didn't acknowledge it to myself I
52:23certainly didn't acknowledge it to
52:24anybody else but like I knew something
52:26was wrong I shouldn't be 24 and my
52:27heart's skipping beats like you know
52:29that's not not normal there's no reason
52:30why that should be happening but um yeah
52:33I just refuse to acknowledge it and like
52:34would tell myself you're just soft like
52:37plenty of people have had to live with
52:39like much worse stress in this
52:41figure it out suck it up do you know
52:43that feeling of anxiety the one I'm
52:44talking about where it's it's like
52:46constant state for sure and you
52:47experience you were experiencing that in
52:49the lead-up to the festival absolutely
52:50how badly
52:51it was bad
52:53and yeah I mean like looking back it's
52:55crazy like no one wants to live right
52:57with a dread to wake up every morning
52:58not knowing like what that Excel
53:00document's gonna be and then who I have
53:02to beg or call or plead or sell to to
53:04solve that problem it just a shitty life
53:08but you you thought you were in too deep
53:09and you couldn't turn back yeah I
53:11thought that like
53:12I wrongly convinced myself that there
53:14was an end goal and there was a solution
53:16like if the event worked and it went
53:17well we'd have a great brand and
53:19everybody's happy everybody makes money
53:21everybody's gonna want to come next year
53:22and obviously it was so stupid silly but
53:25that was a pure
53:27I had to finish line in sight
53:30when did you realize
53:31it had all gone wrong yeah the night
53:35before the so the festival was scheduled
53:37to be Friday Saturday and Sunday for two
53:39weekends
53:40um we had a charter to 737 planes and
53:43open up like a temporary terminal in
53:45Miami to basically fly everybody to the
53:47island and given we only had two planes
53:49we started to fly guests in early on a
53:51Thursday morning before like before the
53:53festival started on Friday and late that
53:55Wednesday night we were like rushing to
53:57get everything ready in time
53:59and it's like walked into the room
54:00around midnight and like the entire team
54:03was like slumped over on their chairs
54:05like asleep on the couch like heads like
54:08leaning on the kitchen table
54:10and it seemed like all the energy at the
54:12same time but it's like left the entire
54:14team
54:15and like almost like as if On Cue as
54:18I've written by a movie a storm rolls in
54:20like late that Wednesday and then it's
54:22like oh [ __ ] like I've lost a team
54:25you can't beat the weather like or we're
54:28not in a good spot
54:30thinking back to the promo um video that
54:33you made and comment you made on the
54:34full send podcast about how the guy that
54:37buys the yachts and gets all the girls
54:39to come and then pays for it subsidizes
54:41it is never a happy man yep
54:44um are you this was the question I was
54:47putting as I was reading about your
54:48story is like what are your insecurities
54:51because a lot of this seems to be driven
54:52by some kind of like deep insecurity to
54:54like prove the prove others right to be
54:56the man to be the guy to throw the best
54:58party and the validation on a
55:00psychological level that must be giving
55:01some kind of insecurity some whole it
55:03must be filling for sure yeah what are
55:05your insecurities
55:07and what were they
55:10good question yeah
55:13yeah this I think the need it always
55:15kind of came back the need to prove
55:17this path right of like I don't need
55:20school I don't need the path that we
55:22were all taught as a right path like my
55:24path is better and it leads to more
55:26interesting and more exciting life and
55:28like I think I always knew that but I
55:31was so insecure and I wanted to have
55:34everybody else believe it and I would
55:35get frustrated when people didn't share
55:37those same beliefs as me
55:39so I think it's been part of the
55:40learning process as well is to
55:42understand that everybody can't believe
55:44and like the same thing and that's okay
55:46and like not taking it personally when
55:48that happens
55:49have you got any insecurities around
55:51women
55:52I don't know yeah yeah
55:54it just seems to be centered on this
55:56desire to like prove everybody wrong and
55:58like [ __ ] the system yeah
56:00um
56:01I still I'm still not quite clear in my
56:03mind where that where that came from I'm
56:04like was he bullied in school was it was
56:06there a teacher that said some [ __ ] to
56:07him that he couldn't do it was his
56:08parents told him he couldn't do it I
56:10think part of it is like the curse of
56:14of things never being enough right and I
56:16guess I don't know what the derivation
56:17of that is but
56:19you know whether it's business success
56:21or friendship success
56:24where you live your home your
56:25possessions like your the love that
56:28someone has for you
56:29especially during that time of my life I
56:32was almost like jaded into always
56:34thinking that it wasn't enough like if
56:35someone loved me they didn't love me
56:36enough or if like I had a great like day
56:39at work the day wasn't good enough and I
56:41think it all kind of come back to like
56:43maybe I'm thinking out loud here maybe
56:45it was like the early exposure at like
56:4718 and 19 to like Titans of industry and
56:51then me comparing to them where it's
56:52like not feasible to get there without
56:53you know 20 30 40 years of work that
56:56they had put in but it's like I wanted
56:58everything at that level and I wanted it
57:00now so if you gave me this much but it
57:02wasn't like where they were I wasn't
57:04satisfied with it so I think it was like
57:06the early exposure
57:07combined with like the impatience and
57:10need to have it there's this really um
57:15well publicized scene where you're stood
57:18on a crate on the day of the festival
57:20you've got all of these party goers
57:22around you kind of screaming and asking
57:24questions and some of them a little bit
57:26drunk because they've been off yeah sent
57:27to a bar on the other side of the island
57:29when you're trying to sort of buy
57:30yourself time
57:31what was going on when you were still in
57:33that crate and what were you thinking
57:34and feeling were you [ __ ] yourself I
57:36mean right now I realized like how bad
57:38my management skills were at the time
57:40like where the [ __ ] is everybody like we
57:43had they weren't all full-time employees
57:45a lot of them were like local
57:45contractors or whatever we had almost
57:47800 people you know the day of the
57:49festival like working there I just felt
57:52like I was surrounded by these people
57:54I couldn't find any of my team members
57:56and I had I'm not going to name the
57:58publication I had a publication on the
57:59phone with me saying you know we heard
58:02you ran off on your yacht with like
58:03cocaine and hookers like I don't have a
58:05yacht never done cocaine like there were
58:06no hookers and but they're also live
58:09streaming on the on the cover of their
58:10web page so I'm like yelling at them I'm
58:12getting yelled at by like you know the
58:1450 or 100 concert goers right there I
58:16just couldn't find anybody but just goes
58:17to show I just like didn't have the
58:18systems in place to or the knowledge to
58:21manage everything but that was my first
58:22reaction is like where the hell is
58:24everybody
58:25I heard you made the decision to cancel
58:27the festival when someone incorrectly
58:29told you that people had died yeah I was
58:31told
58:32shortly after that moment maybe an hour
58:34or two later that three people had died
58:36and thankfully no one was physically
58:38hurt like at all to my knowledge but I
58:40was told these elaborate stories who
58:43told you that uh team members and place
58:45and I think the reality was looking back
58:48now is that concert goers were like
58:50reading things on Twitter and then
58:52coming running to employees and telling
58:54them this but like verified Twitter
58:55accounts is back in what 17 were like
58:58nothing like gunshots fire like people
59:00hit like it was going all over Twitter
59:01and people were getting shot and things
59:03like that and like none of this was true
59:05but by the time it got to me the details
59:07were so vivid
59:09I just didn't have like
59:11the ability to like step back take a
59:13deep breath
59:15recalibrate and try to like think
59:16through the information I was like oh
59:18[ __ ] people are dead okay cancel this
59:19turn the planes around get everybody
59:20home how did that feel when you heard
59:22that if someone in my team came to me
59:24and said that I was putting on an event
59:25and three people were dead already I
59:27mean I just freaked out and said get
59:28everybody out of here get everybody back
59:30to Miami I know it's like that was your
59:32response but
59:34yeah I was just
59:37I just didn't have the ability to like
59:39okay like what's actually happening how
59:41can we prevent this it was more of it's
59:42like a quick knee-jerk all right send
59:44everybody home it's over
59:46one of the I think legendary moments
59:50from the documentary which I know you've
59:51been asked about and heard about before
59:52is when
59:54Andy King
59:56says that he you called him and asked
59:59him to suck a dick suck literally suck a
1:00:02penis to have the water imported because
1:00:04the Border agents had held it up
1:00:07what's the truth in that situation like
1:00:09did you ask him to suck a penis I've
1:00:12heard so many variations of this story
1:00:14and no he was never ordered to go suck a
1:00:16guy's dick I literally put mouthwash in
1:00:18he was gonna suck suck some dick he was
1:00:20yeah that's news to me or I mean I
1:00:23probably heard the story many times but
1:00:24I think the the comment was ingest like
1:00:27go suck this guy's dick get this water
1:00:28like whatever it takes more of like you
1:00:30know go suck up to him and get the water
1:00:31released like do anything beyond paying
1:00:33this guy right like you can't you can't
1:00:35pay the Customs people so like go do
1:00:37whatever it takes and just convince him
1:00:38that our Festival is going to fail if
1:00:40people can't drink water there's he's
1:00:42obviously a gay man
1:00:43and the Border agent was gay right I
1:00:45think so yeah so the assertion of the
1:00:47documentary was because he was gay you
1:00:49had asked him to suck suck a dick if he
1:00:51had to and he he took that literally so
1:00:53he says he he went and put mouthwash in
1:00:56and he headed down there fully prepared
1:00:59to suck a dick I think that makes for a
1:01:01good TV but yeah I certainly don't
1:01:02recall it happening like that
1:01:03unfortunately
1:01:06crazy
1:01:07do you still speak to him
1:01:09um I've heard from him recently yeah so
1:01:12are you in good terms I think it's a
1:01:15good guy I think he tried his best to um
1:01:17to help and unfortunately he was brought
1:01:19on pretty late in like the process so he
1:01:21wasn't there from the beginning but I
1:01:22think obviously if he was willing to do
1:01:24that he went above and beyond to you
1:01:26listen if I try to make the festival
1:01:27happen I'm sure yeah I wish him all the
1:01:30best if I had a friend that was willing
1:01:31to go to those links for me and I have
1:01:33no friend that would do that for me
1:01:35um I certainly would would stay in touch
1:01:37and keep them on side yeah um in the
1:01:39wake of fire Festival what happens you
1:01:41eventually fly back to New York one of
1:01:42the scenes that really did get me in the
1:01:44documentary on an emotional level was
1:01:46watching that wonderful Bohemian lady
1:01:47talk about how she lost her life savings
1:01:51um you know who I'm referring to right
1:01:52uh I do know yeah yeah
1:01:54um
1:01:57how do you feel about that when you hear
1:01:58that that some that locals you worked on
1:02:01that hadn't been paid and then you know
1:02:03they're in they're not living privileged
1:02:05lives necessarily yeah
1:02:07I mean it's terrible and the reality is
1:02:09there are people who are owed there
1:02:11and they're over for the last two weeks
1:02:13of work before the festival I think
1:02:14everybody's a little bit different but
1:02:16getting them paid back
1:02:18super important to me and trying to find
1:02:21ways to start that process now
1:02:23um I never met that lady before but no
1:02:25her story is obviously super sad and you
1:02:27know
1:02:28um
1:02:29I have heard from her through friends
1:02:31recently and you know hope we can figure
1:02:33out you know what is owed to everybody
1:02:34and start making those steps there but
1:02:36yeah unfortunately never met her but
1:02:38hope to make right by her when you when
1:02:40you leave the Bahamas off to that event
1:02:42you come back to New York you come back
1:02:44to a shitstorm yeah I mean the people
1:02:48that have given you what 26 27 million
1:02:50dollars in cash yeah
1:02:52must be pretty mad for sure I I land
1:02:55back on like the Sunday night after the
1:02:58festival around midnight and then that
1:03:00morning early the FBI is at my door
1:03:04and I think like the initial investors
1:03:06who got really mad thought that the
1:03:08whole festival was a hoax and then I had
1:03:10stolen the money and had it hidden
1:03:11somewhere and it was like lying about
1:03:13the entire thing
1:03:14and so just like enter this Whirlwind of
1:03:16of Hell your investors but basically
1:03:19went to the FBI Yeah Yeah from from what
1:03:22I understand yes what makes you what
1:03:23gives you the understanding
1:03:25basically I was called until it was
1:03:26going to happen it's like you [ __ ] up
1:03:29it's too late like here's what's gonna
1:03:31happen now and and like I was totally
1:03:33totally guilty and I would have gone to
1:03:35jail like if no one made that phone call
1:03:37I just made the process happen like the
1:03:38process kicked off faster but once it
1:03:40kicks off you know it's out of the out
1:03:42of the hands of the investors and into
1:03:43the justice system and I was black and
1:03:45white guilty there was no gray area
1:03:47there and you're one of your investors
1:03:48called you and told you that if you
1:03:49didn't give them X dollar yeah cash they
1:03:52would
1:03:53the exact lines were like we need this
1:03:57amount of money or else you're going to
1:03:58be on hanging handcuffs from the front
1:04:00page of the Wall Street Journal and I
1:04:02just like didn't have the money first of
1:04:04all how much was it uh I don't want to
1:04:06say because people will know the
1:04:08investor probably is but seven figures
1:04:10yeah yeah yeah more than a million
1:04:12dollars more than one less than 10. so
1:04:16um I didn't have it and then I was also
1:04:18kind of like certainly naive in my
1:04:19response at the time I just couldn't
1:04:22fathom like that I was lying to
1:04:23investors right like I knew I was trying
1:04:25my best to make the festival work and
1:04:27the media's initial like a line of
1:04:29questioning and the guess line of
1:04:30questioning as was all falling apart was
1:04:32like this is a scam you didn't try to do
1:04:34this so my reaction was like no I tried
1:04:36I'm trying my best but I couldn't like
1:04:38really understand the magnitude and the
1:04:40gravity of the crimes I did commit
1:04:42so I was still kind of fighting back I
1:04:44go ahead and do anything wrong I tried
1:04:45my best and then of course like I get
1:04:47back and realize
1:04:48oh [ __ ] I mean it didn't happen
1:04:49overnight but here's what actually
1:04:51happened
1:04:53and yeah when you get when you get back
1:04:56um the criminality doesn't stop though
1:04:58does it no this is the bit honestly yeah
1:05:01that really got me in the doctor because
1:05:04I was like oh man you know some could
1:05:06say young kid negligent inexperienced
1:05:09his ambition was greater than his
1:05:10execution told loads of Lies
1:05:13at that point he learns his lesson but
1:05:16then for the criminality and lying to
1:05:17continue beyond that point with this NYC
1:05:20VIP access where you start selling fake
1:05:22tickets
1:05:23give me the context why did that happen
1:05:25yeah I've
1:05:27many smart people officers have said the
1:05:29same thing as you and
1:05:32I was just caught in this process where
1:05:35okay this investor he didn't threaten me
1:05:38but the investor kind of gave me an
1:05:39ultimatum
1:05:40I blew him off and he was right he got
1:05:42me arrested it's all about the money I
1:05:44have to pay everybody back now all right
1:05:46I'm gonna I'm gonna get him his money
1:05:47and I wasn't like communicating with him
1:05:49at this point but I'm gonna get him his
1:05:50money I'm gonna pay everybody else back
1:05:52and then this is all gonna go away and I
1:05:53can solve this and I thought that the
1:05:56proper response to a criminal process
1:05:57was to solve the problem when the proper
1:06:00response to criminal process is to sit
1:06:01down shut the [ __ ] up and like accept
1:06:04your punishment just just take it and
1:06:06any other response just like the wrong
1:06:07way to do it so you were on bail I was
1:06:10on bail
1:06:11and like
1:06:13it was all about this desire like okay
1:06:15now it's about the money let me pay
1:06:17people back and back in the Magnesium
1:06:20days like in the early fire days
1:06:22Brands would essentially pay us to like
1:06:24host these events for our members or to
1:06:26invite members to random things and I
1:06:28would always get invited to these like
1:06:29charity events and the charity Gallows
1:06:31and concerts and you know award shows
1:06:33and whatever it may be I can get plus
1:06:35one or plus two depending on it and I
1:06:37thought like oh this is a great way to
1:06:38make money I can just like you know call
1:06:40these Brands back and ask for a favor
1:06:41and get a few spots and sell these
1:06:43tickets I just like was so stupid and
1:06:45still wrong and obviously couldn't
1:06:46fulfill what I was selling I'm like
1:06:48[ __ ] up and it's kept me awake at
1:06:51night just as much if not more in the
1:06:53festival so we're on the same page there
1:06:54so so you would Hamilton the Super Bowl
1:06:57you would you would email people Coco
1:06:59and tell them you had tickets take the
1:07:00money and then when the event happened
1:07:03I would scramble and try to get it and
1:07:05sometimes I could but many times I
1:07:07couldn't and you would keep that keep
1:07:08that money I would refund it if the
1:07:10event didn't happen but the problem was
1:07:11I was just so sold out for events in the
1:07:14future that I had no chance at actually
1:07:15fulfilling that you know when my bell
1:07:17got revoked and I got arrested it was
1:07:19just like they lost their money and you
1:07:20were doing were you doing this in the
1:07:21magnesis day so I had a story about
1:07:22Hamilton you said you had 200 tickets to
1:07:24Hamilton
1:07:26um and then when the event came near you
1:07:27just like randomly scrambled on like
1:07:29Ticket Hub or StubHub whatever it is and
1:07:31bought the tickets last minute would go
1:07:33and hand them out yeah so when in the
1:07:35lying period leading up to the festival
1:07:38I was trying to get money from
1:07:40everywhere and definitely was trying to
1:07:41get more money from Magnus to help pay
1:07:43the bills as well
1:07:45um
1:07:46I was so stupid like was certainly
1:07:47overselling access to magnesis events
1:07:50but we ended up either buying the
1:07:52tickets like at an inflated rate or
1:07:54refunding everybody so I lost money
1:07:56every single time you know it was crazy
1:07:58like just so stupid
1:08:02um your your ability to be so
1:08:04comfortable with lying at that point in
1:08:07your life
1:08:08is terrifying yeah
1:08:12it's one could almost say it's like
1:08:15it's kind of it's kind of
1:08:18I don't even say this but kind of lucky
1:08:20that like
1:08:21it was wasn't on an even bigger scale
1:08:24and it wasn't like life or death stuff
1:08:26that you were doing in terms of you know
1:08:27what I mean because if you're that
1:08:29comfortable lying to people
1:08:30that could have been and you have the
1:08:32sales ability clearly that could have
1:08:35been a lot like how is your your
1:08:36relationship with lying evolved in the
1:08:38last couple of years since you've been
1:08:39in jail and you've come out like
1:08:40honestly how has it changed yeah
1:08:46the lies at the time I think just the
1:08:48craziest part was
1:08:52how stupid it was from every level like
1:08:55you know you work hard to build
1:08:57relationships with friends with loved
1:08:59ones with supporters and obviously as
1:09:01soon as you allow them it's going to get
1:09:03found out whether it's the next day or
1:09:04in a year and five years they're gonna
1:09:05believe that but you didn't seem to have
1:09:07a belief I didn't be found out I always
1:09:09knew in the back of my mind they're
1:09:10going to find out but I convinced myself
1:09:12that if I had made them if I gave them
1:09:14what they want which I thought was
1:09:15happiness and success it wouldn't have
1:09:17mattered like that's where I went wrong
1:09:19and it's like okay they're gonna know
1:09:21that our Revenue wasn't this but I'm
1:09:23gonna make the money and they're gonna
1:09:24have fun so they're gonna love me still
1:09:26I'm like it's so crazy to think about
1:09:28now but like that was the thought
1:09:30process and
1:09:31that's like even like for the magnesium
1:09:33stick it's like I If we oversold a
1:09:36ticket for an event I was literally like
1:09:37running around when I came back to New
1:09:39York for a weekend like I'd go outside
1:09:40Madison Square Garden and pay like four
1:09:42times the price and make sure that
1:09:44person was like happy in the moment not
1:09:46realizing I just like lost a ton of
1:09:47money in the deal and actually hurt
1:09:48everybody else because we're losing
1:09:50money on it so I was like so focused in
1:09:53this like long-term goal or short-term
1:09:55goal of happiness and success for
1:09:57everybody around me and that's obviously
1:09:59German due to insecurity and whatever
1:10:01these desires are but yeah like that was
1:10:04like my personal justification and crazy
1:10:06but that's what it was
1:10:09that day when the FBI come knocking yeah
1:10:12you know this is before you put on bail
1:10:14what is it like tell me because I'm
1:10:16[ __ ] terrified of the FBI I've never
1:10:18met him you know I'm just so scared of
1:10:20them just from movies so tell me what
1:10:21that's like scary as hell I think like
1:10:25I wasn't defiant I was more like I tried
1:10:28my best like that was my own like
1:10:30internal like mentality like everybody
1:10:32at that time was accusing me in the
1:10:35Festival of all being fake and like
1:10:37while I obviously made a million
1:10:39management decisions the crime was like
1:10:40in lying to investors right but
1:10:43I just didn't comprehend yet like what
1:10:44I'd really done and I didn't realize
1:10:46that I was doing all these crimes for
1:10:49this end goal making people successful
1:10:50and even if it worked I still would have
1:10:52gone to jail but it didn't work and I
1:10:55was [ __ ] at least I couldn't
1:10:56understand at that point what was
1:10:57happening when did remorse show up and
1:11:00and that realization of like guilt and
1:11:02what you'd done when did that show up
1:11:04it's hard to figure that out in your
1:11:05story yeah I think like
1:11:10the first day where I was like something
1:11:13is really wrong was ad sentencing when
1:11:17the judge said six years
1:11:19and I kind of like looked back at the
1:11:22faces of you know the friends and family
1:11:23that were there
1:11:27that was hard
1:11:28and it's like I legitimately just hurt
1:11:31when it was 30 people
1:11:35in a way that's going to affect them not
1:11:36just for four or five six years but for
1:11:3820 years 30 years and it's never going
1:11:40to go away
1:11:42and I don't like that wasn't all the
1:11:44lessons I learned in one day but that I
1:11:46think was the start of what would take
1:11:48another 18 months of being in jail to
1:11:50really reflect on of like
1:11:52wow like this is [ __ ] bad
1:11:57genre was your co-founder um
1:12:02did he throw you under the bus
1:12:04I think he did what
1:12:06most people would have done in that
1:12:07situation so
1:12:09which was well
1:12:10yeah I think he certainly uh
1:12:12I mean he's got a lot of talents right
1:12:14but I don't think going going back to
1:12:16jail was on his agenda and I was a
1:12:18guilty one like he should not if all if
1:12:21all things shook out fairly at the end I
1:12:23don't think he should have gone to jail
1:12:24he I don't think he committed any crimes
1:12:26but like I think like most people they
1:12:28quickly made it known like what I did
1:12:30wrong and how I did it but yeah I mean I
1:12:33feel bad for him I feel bad for
1:12:34everybody else who was
1:12:36who was trying their best they're trying
1:12:39hard to to make things happen do you
1:12:41still speak to him do you have a
1:12:42relationship uh no if you spoke to him
1:12:44since
1:12:45you've been to jail or during jail or um
1:12:48shortly after
1:12:50um straight after getting arrested I
1:12:52spoke with him like one time so this is
1:12:53you know right when Bell started and
1:12:56then didn't speak with him again and so
1:12:58your your bell was revoked because while
1:13:00you're on bail you started this NYC VIP
1:13:02access correct and that violated your
1:13:04bill conditions correct because you
1:13:07weren't allowed to start a company or
1:13:08you weren't allowed to all because I
1:13:11wasn't allowed to keep lying right so
1:13:12they found out you were lying there as
1:13:14well and yeah that was it
1:13:17so you go to jail yeah there's this
1:13:19lawsuit where you were sued for 100
1:13:20million dollars but you go to jail you
1:13:22get six years in jail yes and you'll a
1:13:25few things in in your sort of um your
1:13:27sentencing you're not allowed to start
1:13:28another company again what's the the
1:13:30actual terminology there so I have an
1:13:32SEC role the Securities Commission of
1:13:36the US where I can't be an officer or
1:13:37director of a public company for a life
1:13:39public company yeah public company but
1:13:42you can for private club private yeah
1:13:43okay but for life which is you know
1:13:45obviously if I'm in that position that's
1:13:47a good problem to have but yeah people
1:13:49are probably paid back at that point but
1:13:50yeah you get found guilty of two counts
1:13:52of wire fraud but then you also get
1:13:54charged again for selling fake tickets
1:13:55to events like the Met Gala Burning Man
1:13:57and Coachella on top of that
1:13:59which makes the sentence even worse
1:14:03um for sure
1:14:06so stupid
1:14:08crazy
1:14:10so it's almost like
1:14:13it's ridiculous
1:14:15just didn't know how to
1:14:16didn't know how to say that I was wrong
1:14:19and accept
1:14:21that admission
1:14:23you also got
1:14:25you have to pay restitution yeah what is
1:14:27restitution for anybody that doesn't
1:14:28know
1:14:30so it's basically wage garnishment
1:14:32forever uh until I die or until
1:14:37the people who are defrauded are paid
1:14:38back
1:14:39you have to so on all the money you make
1:14:41for the rest of your life you have to
1:14:43pay the investors who you lied to and
1:14:46you raised 26 million from yes back a
1:14:48percentage of the money exactly yes do
1:14:51you know what that percentage is yeah uh
1:14:52I think it changes based on your income
1:14:54level and so it's been like three months
1:14:56for me so far so I'm just like not
1:14:58making
1:14:59a ton of money right now I've I've made
1:15:00literally made like eight restitution
1:15:02payments so far in the first three and a
1:15:04half months but I think the percentage
1:15:05just kind of goes up and down based on
1:15:07what you're earning so it's something I
1:15:09guess I'll continue to learn about or
1:15:11hopefully I learned about more uh asking
1:15:13people to earn more
1:15:15jail yeah
1:15:16I said to you before we started
1:15:18recording that one of my recurring
1:15:19nightmares is going to yeah I like we're
1:15:21able to voice it though because I had
1:15:23the same one but I could never have told
1:15:24anybody about that you know 10 years ago
1:15:26of course yeah yeah
1:15:29tell me about jail I hope I never I hope
1:15:32I never find out yeah
1:15:35I mean so much of me just want to like
1:15:37put it in the past and never think about
1:15:38it again but
1:15:40it'll always be there
1:15:42and the hardest part is the distance
1:15:43it's like you're in timeout and you
1:15:45can't like get consoled or can't like
1:15:48love anybody
1:15:49can't talk to your family and friends
1:15:51and any Partners whatever else it may be
1:15:54it's the forced distance
1:15:57that is the hardest part
1:16:01what does that do to you
1:16:06I think like
1:16:07when you're rendered useless and
1:16:10Powerless for an extended period of time
1:16:13it really messes with your psyche
1:16:15and
1:16:17I feel it every day now but I can only
1:16:19imagine for the people who are there for
1:16:2020 years 30 years you know significant
1:16:23periods of time longer
1:16:24than me like what it does I think this
1:16:27system is designed to break down
1:16:30ambition and creativity
1:16:33and too like institutionalize you is the
1:16:35word that is commonly used
1:16:37and I think like that just kind of kills
1:16:39your Humanity
1:16:41and it kills your psyche and it just
1:16:43makes you feel worthless
1:16:48how has it changed you
1:16:50and I I will go to the the positive
1:16:52stuff but in a negative way can you see
1:16:55symptoms of How It's had an adverse
1:16:57impact on you yeah I think like and I
1:17:00don't know no disrespected people who
1:17:02have been through like way way worse and
1:17:04there's many of them out there but like
1:17:06having the I think from solitary
1:17:07confinement having this
1:17:09weird like almost like a PTSD paranoia
1:17:13where I now know that there's someone
1:17:16out there who can snap their fingers and
1:17:18like shut my lights out right and
1:17:20there's someone who could like wake up
1:17:21and say we want him in a concrete box
1:17:23for four years ten years and they can do
1:17:26it and I can't stop it that's [ __ ]
1:17:28scary I'm like that keeps me up at night
1:17:31that's because you're on probation
1:17:32probation yeah yeah exactly yep so it's
1:17:34like you know you jaywalk and that's
1:17:37enough where they send you back to jail
1:17:38and they know you get to jail we're
1:17:39gonna put you in solitary confinement
1:17:41now I'm like
1:17:42someone can snap their fingers and do it
1:17:44and like that's
1:17:46not mess with your message with your
1:17:48head
1:17:49I think I'm just like
1:17:52I I'm before I was very quick to pull
1:17:54the trigger but in both good and bad
1:17:56ways and now I think I'm a little
1:17:57trigger shy in a lot of aspects of life
1:17:59and I worry that I won't get that like I
1:18:02won't get that back in the good ways
1:18:04because like every time I think like am
1:18:06I going to make a decision where
1:18:07someone's gonna construe this as me like
1:18:09breaking a rule whether my tensions are
1:18:11aren't and it's just scary and like
1:18:14just knowing that I was so guilty in the
1:18:18first place and deserved like everything
1:18:19that happened but then also knowing that
1:18:21it doesn't have to be that way and there
1:18:22are people who you know weren't as
1:18:24guilty as me who suffered as bad or
1:18:26worse than me I think that fear has
1:18:28always been there like when I was told
1:18:30my release date from jail the two months
1:18:32I had to wait after receiving the date
1:18:34were the hardest time in jail like every
1:18:35morning I'd like be shaking in bed like
1:18:38waiting for him to call my name on the
1:18:40last speaker to tell me it was a joke
1:18:41and like I'm not going home
1:18:42and I didn't believe I was going to go
1:18:44home so for those 60 days it was like
1:18:45I'm unbearable
1:18:47and then like when the day comes I'm
1:18:48waiting in like the cage like you're
1:18:50already locked in a cage for him to
1:18:51process you out I'm like okay the FBI is
1:18:53going to show up and tell me it's all a
1:18:54joke like I'm not getting out of here
1:18:55and like it's just like the constant
1:18:57like
1:18:58disbelief that anything ever is gonna
1:19:01happen again was the hardest part
1:19:03and how long is your probation how long
1:19:05have you got to live with that fear that
1:19:07any decision you make concerns you three
1:19:08years three years yeah
1:19:11it's pretty long um
1:19:13four years is a long time in jail yeah
1:19:15you know it's it's a relatively small
1:19:18number but if I think about what's
1:19:19happened if I just go back four years in
1:19:21my own life yeah to when I was 25 26.
1:19:25better than me I was a different person
1:19:27yeah crazy
1:19:28crazy
1:19:30and those are key years you went to jail
1:19:32at 25 years old right yeah six years old
1:19:34yeah now I'm 30. so it's like I'm
1:19:35missing the latter half of your 20s is
1:19:37definitely I mean deservedly obviously
1:19:38but definitely
1:19:40development years right I'm sure for
1:19:43for most people
1:19:45in terms of lasting memories that Joe
1:19:46had on you and lasting impact take me to
1:19:48what is the
1:19:51what are the what is the worst thing
1:19:52that happened in jail
1:19:54that will stay with you for life the
1:19:56worst thing you observed or so
1:19:58um
1:20:00I did two cents in solitary the first
1:20:02one was three months second one was
1:20:03seven months why the seven month stint
1:20:05was because I tried to do a podcast over
1:20:07the pay phone which is a terrible idea
1:20:09to anybody listening well I didn't want
1:20:10the competition so yeah shut that down
1:20:12wait till Stephen invites you on but
1:20:15um
1:20:16they tried to send me to a terrorist
1:20:17jail
1:20:18and basically in retaliation for that
1:20:20podcast
1:20:22and they they put me in officially put
1:20:25the paperwork in to send me to like a
1:20:26terrorist facility and I've since gotten
1:20:28out and like looked the facility up and
1:20:30they're like there's like a list of the
1:20:31inmates on like Wikipedia who are in
1:20:33that jail and you know I'd be one of
1:20:35like three non-terrorists there like
1:20:38it's [ __ ] scary it's like I wanted a
1:20:40podcast I was super boring of vanilla so
1:20:42stupid to do it should not have done it
1:20:43you can't do a podcast from jail it
1:20:45doesn't make any sense but like
1:20:46it all kind of feeds this concept where
1:20:49there's like and I'm not a conspiracy
1:20:51theorist believer at all but there's
1:20:52someone who can snap their fingers and
1:20:53your life is done and thankfully like
1:20:55somewhere in the higher up chain outside
1:20:57of the facility I was in like rejected
1:20:59that and just sent me somewhere else but
1:21:01that was a very real
1:21:03possibility how are you trying to record
1:21:05a book Austin Joe they have pay phones
1:21:08um that you're able to make
1:21:10I think like 20 15-minute calls every
1:21:13month but you can do them all in like
1:21:15one day so we have to wait 30 minutes if
1:21:17you need to call so I had like a podcast
1:21:19company set a podcast up where over the
1:21:22course of two days I would call in every
1:21:23half hour for a few hours a day and
1:21:25record the podcast and they found out
1:21:27when the episode was published the
1:21:29trailer came out in like an hour or two
1:21:30later they came and grabbed me and yeah
1:21:32so that's it so that you can find them
1:21:34yeah 10 months in total in solitary
1:21:36component the worst part is not knowing
1:21:38when it's going to end and they were
1:21:39like [ __ ] with me like hey here's
1:21:41where we're gonna send you and they
1:21:42would like send me a program statement
1:21:43it's called the CM the communication
1:21:45management unit I like Marion Illinois
1:21:47now here's where we're gonna send you
1:21:48and I thought they were bluffing but
1:21:50then they like two weeks later oh
1:21:51McFarland they actually put your
1:21:53paperwork in for they're like you're
1:21:54[ __ ] like it's like the whole time and
1:21:56no one's gonna tell me how long it was
1:21:57gonna be or when it was going to end and
1:21:58that was the hardest part like a
1:22:00never-ending Saga they were taking
1:22:02enjoyment out of [ __ ] with you oh of
1:22:03course yeah I mean deserveably so if
1:22:06your job is to you know work inside a
1:22:08concrete bunker and like this [ __ ]
1:22:10kid comes in I'm sure you know I don't
1:22:12blame them for their actions
1:22:15I heard you tell a story on the full
1:22:16sign podcast about a young guy arriving
1:22:18in jail yeah overhearing his
1:22:21right yeah in Brooklyn yep
1:22:25tell me about that
1:22:28that was really really early on in my
1:22:31jail stint when I had my bell revoked I
1:22:32went to the Brooklyn Detention Center
1:22:34here which ended up being there for
1:22:35seven months net bus is certainly like
1:22:37violent they have all kind of crimes and
1:22:39levels of security people there it's
1:22:41like all kind of mixed into one big like
1:22:43fish tanky you know cell block
1:22:48at that point I think I was like so
1:22:49wide-eyed as to what was happening I
1:22:51just couldn't really process
1:22:53everybody's pain yeah at that point
1:22:55because I was trying to like understand
1:22:56my own pain
1:22:57but yeah you see and hear things that
1:23:00you don't think are real right and just
1:23:02like didn't have the exposure to those
1:23:03to that thankfully in my life before
1:23:06that point what did you see in here in
1:23:08that instance
1:23:12expert people with nothing to lose who
1:23:14are looking for attention or looking for
1:23:16an outlet
1:23:17taking advantage of others and it's it's
1:23:19rough
1:23:20it's just it's bad do you feel
1:23:22uncomfortable talking about that
1:23:24a little bit why I think like
1:23:27there are obviously some great people in
1:23:29prison who I met but there's
1:23:30just as many bad people and it's like
1:23:32bad people
1:23:34surrounded by other bad people just kind
1:23:36of creates it doesn't create anything
1:23:38good
1:23:41a story that I that I'm referring to is
1:23:42I had you talk about quite recently was
1:23:45that young man had come to the jail and
1:23:47um you'd you'd heard him at night being
1:23:49raped by another
1:23:51more dominant inmate and you had to sit
1:23:54in your cell and overhear that rain when
1:23:56you saw him the next day he didn't tell
1:23:57the police police guards because he
1:23:59didn't want to
1:24:00get hurt
1:24:01um
1:24:03so we're so like weird about that
1:24:05situation was he was scared to tell the
1:24:06police guards like what happened
1:24:08but he had to move cells because like he
1:24:10couldn't deal with it again so he found
1:24:12a reason to move to a different cell
1:24:14like in the same in the same building
1:24:16that we were all in but the word got
1:24:18around between the other inmates what
1:24:20happened so the other inmates pressured
1:24:22the guy who raped him to do something
1:24:23about it basically and he went and like
1:24:25took a razor blade and slashed the guy
1:24:27the next day so it's like you're damned
1:24:29if you do damn if you don't and like how
1:24:30does that kid handle that situation like
1:24:32if you tell on the guy in your entire
1:24:34prison experience is going to be
1:24:35terrible
1:24:36if you don't tell it I'm gonna get raped
1:24:37if you quasi-telling him you'll get
1:24:39moved and then stabbed so it's like what
1:24:41do you do and that's like it's just like
1:24:43a wild
1:24:44terrible situation how old was that
1:24:46young young guy I think he was like a
1:24:48year or two younger than me so this is
1:24:49my first seven months so I was 25 or 26
1:24:52so early to mid 20s
1:24:55do those things I mean
1:24:56do you have any like reoccurring like
1:24:58nightmares about about that time is
1:24:59there like almost a jail PTSD I think
1:25:02from solitary like I was I was kind of
1:25:05sheltered at that point because it was
1:25:06so early I was the first that was the
1:25:08first and only time I saw someone get
1:25:10raped obviously had hurt stories later
1:25:12on but never actually like I didn't see
1:25:14it but like heard and like
1:25:16heard the what was happening there and
1:25:18heard like his blood like help me like
1:25:20Scream the next morning when he was
1:25:22getting slashed so that was that was
1:25:23wild but I think I was it was so much
1:25:26happening at that time I didn't fully
1:25:28like take stock into like what had
1:25:29happened so that happened a year or two
1:25:31later I think it would have been more
1:25:32like
1:25:33difficult to comprehend but to the fact
1:25:36that so much was going on at that point
1:25:37it's like an overwhelming like emotions
1:25:39like if you have a thousand loud sounds
1:25:41blasting in your face and like one more
1:25:43like horn plays in the corner you're not
1:25:44gonna really register the horn as much
1:25:45as if it was the only sound hitting you
1:25:48at that time and you had therapy Joe uh
1:25:50yeah they had like jail therapists yeah
1:25:52did that help you at all in any way I
1:25:54think so and I think it's all like it's
1:25:55a journey right and you need to be the
1:25:58one who kind of drives that car yourself
1:25:59but
1:26:01I think like
1:26:03you know experienced people can push you
1:26:05to start thinking about the right things
1:26:07really while you've been inside over the
1:26:09last five years the topic around mental
1:26:11health is has really emerged in culture
1:26:14what has your journey been like with
1:26:16your own mental health have you
1:26:17experienced we talked about anxiety
1:26:19earlier at any point did you experience
1:26:21what people call depression and the
1:26:23symptoms of depression I don't know I
1:26:25think like my the mental health Journey
1:26:28started more out of angst I was in
1:26:30solitary for it was my first stint there
1:26:33and had a Wall Street Journal newspaper
1:26:35come in and it was around the holiday
1:26:37times like getting ready to do Christmas
1:26:38like alone in the cell like you know
1:26:39obviously super stressful and there was
1:26:41like a whole back page spread in the
1:26:44Wall Street Journal about dealing with
1:26:46your anxiety in the wine store because
1:26:48there are so many options and I'm like
1:26:50these [ __ ] like do you know
1:26:52what I would give to like be able to go
1:26:53to a wine store like right now and like
1:26:55how is this real so I think like my
1:26:57initial like intro to like the invoke
1:27:00mental health was like a bit of like
1:27:01this is [ __ ] and then I think it
1:27:04took a period of a couple years to start
1:27:05like opening up
1:27:07to the topic and the concept
1:27:09have you opened up
1:27:10to the topic not fully like I guess Like
1:27:14For Better or Worse
1:27:16you know I'm of the belief that
1:27:20I committed the crime and like I could
1:27:22have and should have stopped myself and
1:27:25getting mental health like wouldn't have
1:27:27stopped me from committing the crime and
1:27:28I also believe that like I'm like
1:27:31present to the point that
1:27:34I certainly believe I know right from
1:27:35wrong moving forward and if I commit a
1:27:36crime in the future it's not going to be
1:27:38because of like a mental health issue
1:27:40it's because like I'm taking a shortcut
1:27:41and you know copping out
1:27:44you'll always try to get you off the
1:27:4620-year prison sentence by saying that
1:27:48you suffered from untreated bipolar
1:27:49disorder the success reinforced his
1:27:52grandiose and distorted sense that there
1:27:55were no boundaries
1:27:58bipolar disorder that's the defense that
1:28:01your lawyers gave
1:28:02is that true
1:28:04I think like I am extremely flawed in a
1:28:07lot of ways and I'm embarrassed about a
1:28:10lot of things but I'm very embarrassed
1:28:11about using like mental health as part
1:28:14of my defense and I just don't believe
1:28:16that that's an excuse for what I did so
1:28:18I think that was that was a wrong
1:28:19approach that I took there and like but
1:28:21is it true
1:28:23do you have bipolar disorder I don't
1:28:24think I'm bipolar I'm sure I have mental
1:28:26health like
1:28:27concerns as many people do but yeah I
1:28:30don't think I'm bipolar so do you think
1:28:32that was your defense and you using that
1:28:34as a way to try and load the sentence I
1:28:36I yeah and I think I was stupid it was
1:28:38wrong there's a quote from the the
1:28:40prosecutor as well where they said that
1:28:43the defendant is a Serial fraudster and
1:28:45today is fraud like a circle has no end
1:28:47Mr McFarland has been dishonest most of
1:28:50the time
1:28:52do you agree with that statement from
1:28:53the judge
1:28:55I think the magnitude of the lies that
1:29:00led to that point
1:29:02we're just so large and so bad
1:29:05that it like it erased any good and so I
1:29:08I think that was accurate at the time
1:29:10that time inside you know you're getting
1:29:12out
1:29:13what's the plan you start writing books
1:29:16in jail I had all of these things what's
1:29:17the plan when you're looking forward at
1:29:19your life with your ambition
1:29:21what are you thinking I'm gonna get out
1:29:23and I'm gonna do what the craziest thing
1:29:24is that I never thought I would get out
1:29:26and
1:29:27I'd spend the time like planning things
1:29:30and thinking about what I wanted to do
1:29:31more as like a mental Escape but I was
1:29:34just so convinced that it was never
1:29:35going to end and obviously it sounds
1:29:37silly
1:29:38that's really been like the this like
1:29:40aha moment like I am out of prison right
1:29:42now
1:29:43and I just like truly didn't think I
1:29:45would be here
1:29:46crazy I know but it was like the
1:29:47paranoia of the situation really really
1:29:49like convinced me that this was not
1:29:51going to be over
1:29:52and you've started a new company yeah
1:29:55so I am out so I guess I have to do
1:29:56something now so yeah you could have
1:29:58done a lot of things yeah right you
1:29:59could have gone in as you said people
1:30:01told you to go get a job you could have
1:30:03played it safe
1:30:04you've started a company called pirate
1:30:06yeah interesting name
1:30:09there's a little bit of humor in there
1:30:10yeah a little bit of a pun hopefully
1:30:11people understand the self-deprecating
1:30:13nature but yeah
1:30:16and even the way that you're marketing
1:30:17pirate we'll talk about what it is ETC
1:30:19but even the mate you're very much
1:30:20embracing what's happened and you'll I
1:30:23remember seeing a video of the marketing
1:30:25collateral and you say at the start of
1:30:26it listen I've got a lot of people to
1:30:27pay back here you're embracing yeah
1:30:30what's happened was that a is that
1:30:32strategy yeah I think like
1:30:35beating around the bush
1:30:37and hiding from the truth just makes no
1:30:40sense right and like people are owed
1:30:42their own money their own trust their
1:30:44own an apology and not doing it and
1:30:48avoiding it I think is worse
1:30:50than saying it is what it is and here's
1:30:53my step to make it right I'm like I
1:30:54can't promise that pirate is going to be
1:30:56worth anything one day I can't promise
1:30:58it'll work or not work but I can promise
1:31:00I'm gonna try are you are you really are
1:31:02you sorry I'm super sorry who are you
1:31:05sorry to
1:31:07family friends first
1:31:09supporters second
1:31:11and then goes goes down the list from
1:31:13there and what's the plan with pirate
1:31:15yeah so is it Festival
1:31:17not yet
1:31:20um
1:31:21for all like the really bad stuff I
1:31:23think the one
1:31:25crazy positive takeaway of solitary was
1:31:29that
1:31:29it gave me time to think
1:31:32past tomorrow and if you kind of go back
1:31:35to like those fire days with the Urgent
1:31:36payment shoot I couldn't afford to think
1:31:38past two o'clock you know let alone like
1:31:40three years from now it's the benefit of
1:31:43solitary was like read a lot of books
1:31:44and really just like thought about
1:31:46technology in a way that I didn't have
1:31:48the luxury of due to my own mistakes of
1:31:51doing before
1:31:52plus like the reflection about like what
1:31:54I suck at and what I'm good at so
1:31:56Pirates like the combination of the time
1:31:58to think seven years ahead and the time
1:32:01to reflect on the areas that I need help
1:32:02and the areas that I think I can succeed
1:32:04at would you suck up
1:32:07I went way too fast
1:32:09I
1:32:11turned down experts in certain areas
1:32:13like thinking I knew more than them
1:32:15I'm terrible managing finances I'm
1:32:17terrible with Logistics but I'm good at
1:32:19Building Products quickly and I'm good
1:32:21at marketing I think most of all I'm
1:32:23good at taking people and allowing them
1:32:26to find Value in others that they might
1:32:28have not found without me and then
1:32:30inviting them and convincing them to go
1:32:32try some experience they would never
1:32:33have done without me and finding like
1:32:35joy and success and ideas from those
1:32:38experiences and connections and that's
1:32:39what Pirate's really trying to do right
1:32:41that's a parrot about tell me about
1:32:42pirate if I'm if I've never heard of it
1:32:44before and I'm a potential customer
1:32:45what's what's the sales pitch so working
1:32:47to partner with a really small like
1:32:49Boutique Hotel in an adventurous Island
1:32:52somewhere where we can host the content
1:32:55creator from London like the
1:32:57entrepreneur from New York the music
1:32:58artist from LA on a permanent basis
1:33:01connect them around all these Adventures
1:33:03to go night diving to go Spearfish for
1:33:05their own lobsters to make music you
1:33:07know buy the bonfire at night
1:33:10as many weekends out of the year as we
1:33:11can but this time instead of trying to
1:33:14bring like thousands of people there
1:33:15we're rigging the area with these 360
1:33:17cameras we're going to be live streaming
1:33:19it to the rest of the world so all of
1:33:21their fans no matter where they are can
1:33:23watch what's actually happening and then
1:33:25take advantage of these emerging
1:33:26Technologies to own and even affect the
1:33:28experience
1:33:29so for example people online could chip
1:33:31in a dollar and build a Beachside bar
1:33:33and sell drinks their favorite artists
1:33:36or like once I'm allowed to travel I can
1:33:38be swimming at the reef and they can
1:33:39decide to Chum the water and like the
1:33:41local Captain who's like an amazing
1:33:43character like
1:33:44dump bait in the water and I think given
1:33:46all the crazy sharks in the area people
1:33:47would love to see the uh the results
1:33:48alive of that but it's all about taking
1:33:51people
1:33:52on a manageable scale physically to
1:33:54different places and then virtually
1:33:56allowing them to connect with people
1:33:57they never thought were possible and
1:33:59partaking these experiences so for me I
1:34:01would go out to some islands somewhere
1:34:03yeah and then I'd be on the island
1:34:05chilling and then my audience watching
1:34:07can [ __ ] with me exactly or or like
1:34:10impact your creative experience even as
1:34:12well too so you could be like hosting a
1:34:14bonfire chat or you can do a podcast
1:34:16from a different Ireland location and
1:34:19they can say hey we want you to do the
1:34:20podcast from this island today with this
1:34:22guest and ask these questions and they
1:34:23can kind of get involved and help own
1:34:25that experience
1:34:26how are you gonna fund this yeah so like
1:34:29right now it's doing everything and
1:34:30anything like have a TV deal I've been
1:34:32signing baseball cards I'm on Cameo like
1:34:35literally like doing marketing for other
1:34:37small startups and I think like things
1:34:40have to grow and it's super super early
1:34:41on but just trying to find any way to
1:34:43you know get the revenue to do all this
1:34:44you're gonna raise investment again I
1:34:46don't know uh not tomorrow not this week
1:34:49but you know in 6 12 18 months like I
1:34:52have to kind of see what I'm allowed to
1:34:53do and what I'm not allowed to do so
1:34:54taking it step by step do you have this
1:34:56kind of like because it's been such a
1:34:58public failure and it's it's tarnished
1:35:01by this like this subject of Lies liar
1:35:04do every interaction you must have now
1:35:07is there a party that knows that they
1:35:09don't trust you
1:35:10I think what's really like interesting
1:35:12especially from the team standpoint is
1:35:14I'm having an easier time finding like
1:35:16team members and partners and like
1:35:18employees whatever it is now and like
1:35:21with having no money and having the
1:35:23tarnish they did before I think for like
1:35:26the 90 out of 100 people who just like
1:35:28want to hate and like distance
1:35:29themselves that almost inspires like the
1:35:3110 of the people to really want to fight
1:35:33for it and make something happen so I
1:35:35almost have like deeper I think more
1:35:37trusting relationships with my small
1:35:39circle than I did before but obviously
1:35:42I'm going to encounter you know millions
1:35:43of people who are just gonna like say no
1:35:45at first pass so
1:35:47yeah when I heard you talk about pirate
1:35:49recently a couple of weeks ago you
1:35:51referenced the Bahamas now when you just
1:35:53told me about pirate then yeah
1:35:56you said some Island yeah I saw you on
1:35:59full sense say you wanted to go back to
1:36:00the Bahamas
1:36:01yeah I I'd love to the Bahamas um we had
1:36:05been working with a small local
1:36:07development an island called Black Point
1:36:09and we had a Super Connect connected
1:36:12tight like local team that I had known
1:36:14there for years that I called my dear
1:36:16friends
1:36:17um
1:36:18a few weeks ago the Bahamas basically
1:36:20announced that I wasn't allowed back
1:36:21which was
1:36:23super hard for me to hear I think the
1:36:25reality of the situation is that there
1:36:27are people in the Bahamas who are still
1:36:28owed for their work and they need to be
1:36:30paid back so before like any talks of
1:36:32returning there happen like they need to
1:36:34be paid back and I'd love to readdress
1:36:36your relationship once that happens but
1:36:38in the meantime pirate is the technology
1:36:40we've built it is these experiences so
1:36:42just like it's early I don't have the
1:36:44answers yet but looking for other
1:36:45locations to start testing what we've
1:36:47been building who said who said in the
1:36:49Bahamas you weren't allowed back the
1:36:50government made a statement saying that
1:36:51I'm not allowed back I think like some
1:36:53media announced that I was doing a
1:36:55festival there again which it was not
1:36:57the situation and and I don't think I
1:36:59ever announced that I hope I didn't but
1:37:01I think that narrative was taken with
1:37:02and run with to like this overall ban
1:37:04which came out of left field for me what
1:37:06did the statement say that I'm a
1:37:08fugitive at the Bahamas
1:37:11so if you go to the Bahamas they would
1:37:12arrest you it sounds like it
1:37:16uh I'm not aware of any charges that I
1:37:20anytime or the past five years but once
1:37:22again I think the reality is people who
1:37:24worked hard for the fire Festival there
1:37:25vendors uh contractors whatever it may
1:37:29be are still owed and
1:37:31you know if I can pay start paying 100 a
1:37:33week whatever the number is like let's
1:37:35figure that out and get that done
1:37:37how are you doing
1:37:40the stress is there
1:37:42and
1:37:43it's literally been three and a half
1:37:45months right and it's like
1:37:48how do I deal with this I think one of
1:37:50the toughest things for me when I first
1:37:51got out of jail I was in like a halfway
1:37:53house program for a number of months and
1:37:55the first people that kind of came to me
1:37:56were people who I'd met in prison and
1:37:59they were trying to essentially like you
1:38:01know partner with me and get in close
1:38:03and as I like learn more about those
1:38:05people over time it's been more of like
1:38:06separating myself
1:38:08with from them and it's like building
1:38:10and rebuilding with old friends and new
1:38:12friends as well so
1:38:14the human aspect took me some time and I
1:38:16think I kind of like viewed the end of
1:38:17my sentence as like a fresh start it's
1:38:19like August 30th came I kind of like had
1:38:21to separate from the people I'd been
1:38:22around for just over four years at that
1:38:24point and start reconnecting with old
1:38:27friends and new people that's been a
1:38:29challenge I think I've got a really
1:38:30great small group right now but it's a
1:38:33struggle to survive like I have no money
1:38:34you know I'm trying to earn whoever I
1:38:36can and just like get Consulting
1:38:38marketing you know media jobs and just
1:38:40doing my best but
1:38:41it's not going to happen in six months
1:38:42or nine months it's gonna take time are
1:38:44you happy
1:38:45I think I'm excited but also super
1:38:48paranoid and nervous
1:38:49so it's a mix and I feel like
1:38:51I have like a good four to five years to
1:38:54rebuild the foundation before
1:38:57life is like copacetic again
1:39:00and obviously coming in coming and doing
1:39:02podcasts like this it can't be easy to
1:39:03do this every [ __ ] day no you know
1:39:05what I mean people like me calling you a
1:39:06pathological life yeah yeah just reading
1:39:08off all this stuff that you've done in
1:39:09the past to be fair even harder than
1:39:11every other one I've done so good for
1:39:13you though we'll let you know what it is
1:39:15um
1:39:18it's not just that I feel like I have a
1:39:19responsibility to it it's like
1:39:22on this process you're on now there's
1:39:24questions people want to ask and until
1:39:27those questions are answered like
1:39:29they're gonna remain yeah and in fact
1:39:31for me I think Liberation for you is
1:39:33like facing those tough questions and
1:39:34answering them because eventually like
1:39:36the truth is people are going to stop
1:39:37asking them yeah like if they have those
1:39:39answers so
1:39:40um and you know I think it's worth me
1:39:42saying as well I believe you should have
1:39:44a chance I'm very much of the opinion
1:39:45that like people like you that have done
1:39:47wrong and that [ __ ] up and have held
1:39:49their hands up and said I [ __ ] up I'm
1:39:51wrong whether you're telling the truth
1:39:53or not I don't know you you know I I
1:39:54take you on your word but I believe that
1:39:56if we have a society where people don't
1:39:59get a second chance that is a worse
1:40:01Society I spend a couple of two weeks
1:40:03ago I went to a prison and spent pretty
1:40:05much all day there really meeting
1:40:06inmates and speaking to them and the
1:40:09potential you know what I mean it really
1:40:10did open my eyes because as you've
1:40:12described I saw such unbelievable
1:40:14potential crazy right I saw mistakes
1:40:16that people had made in their lives and
1:40:17then I saw a desperation to fix them and
1:40:20to to get back out and be productive so
1:40:21I think a society that has open up Open
1:40:24Arms to to ex-offenders who have
1:40:27committed certain lower level crimes I
1:40:29think is a good site I'm not saying
1:40:30yours is a low-level crime I'm not
1:40:31passing judgment in your in your case I
1:40:33think that's a better Society to live in
1:40:34or else it's a waste of talent and you
1:40:37know
1:40:38so that's my stance on it now
1:40:42do I do I believe everything you've said
1:40:46in terms of like you'll never do it
1:40:47again
1:40:48I don't know
1:40:51the scary part was you made a massive
1:40:53mistake and then made another one you
1:40:55know the fire Festival was a [ __ ]
1:40:57very public [ __ ] show and then to then
1:40:58scam people with the tickets I'm like
1:41:00damn
1:41:01I hope everything you've told me
1:41:03told me is is the truth what message
1:41:05would you want to send to the world like
1:41:06all the people listening to this around
1:41:08the world
1:41:10what message do you want to send to them
1:41:13I think the beauty that we all have in
1:41:15some capacity is time right and it's a
1:41:18patience too like I don't need anything
1:41:19from anybody listening to this I just
1:41:21hope that in 20 or 30 years we can look
1:41:23back upon this conversation or snip it
1:41:26to this conversation and said oh yeah
1:41:27like oh this came true oh there's where
1:41:29you messed up or there's where you did a
1:41:30good job I think it's just like
1:41:31documenting the journey and allowing
1:41:33time to run its course and time Reveals
1:41:37All Right
1:41:38pirate where can we find pirate if you
1:41:40want to go check it out we want to be
1:41:41part of it where's where do we go to
1:41:43check it out uh pirate.com p-y-r-t
1:41:46orient.com yeah at piratebilly on social
1:41:49great domain name yeah thank you cool
1:41:51domain name yeah
1:41:52he paid for that oh my God thanks to the
1:41:56TV contract TV what's that just doing a
1:42:00small like follow-on docu series about
1:42:02like the attempt to build pirate nice
1:42:04yeah you're ex I can tell you're excited
1:42:06yeah are you are you nervous coming here
1:42:08today
1:42:09uh
1:42:11not really I didn't know like I didn't
1:42:13know how in depth we were going to go if
1:42:15I'm glad I didn't really know because if
1:42:16I knew the structure and the the
1:42:19questions I don't think I could have
1:42:20slept last night so like
1:42:22glad I came in a little blind um I've
1:42:25done three podcasts so far I did the
1:42:27first one like maybe two weeks ago and
1:42:29then I filmed the second one this
1:42:30morning uh which is fun and then like I
1:42:33guess I kind of came in thinking this
1:42:34would be more jovial so I'm really
1:42:36really glad I didn't know the depth of
1:42:38this because I would have been super
1:42:39nervous in the definitely not have slept
1:42:41yesterday so of all the things I've
1:42:43asked you what was the most
1:42:44uncomfortable thing the thing where you
1:42:45go ah insecurities drive like like the
1:42:49why I think it's the most uncomfortable
1:42:50because I don't have the answer
1:42:54you're good and because you don't have
1:42:56the answers yeah it still might be
1:42:57running the show in the back room a
1:42:59little bit right sure of course I'm
1:43:00speaking from my own experience like I
1:43:02talk I talk a lot about this podcast
1:43:04whether I'm driven or whether I'm being
1:43:05dragged by something and I've I've only
1:43:07in the last couple of years started to
1:43:09realize that I was being dragged by my
1:43:11insecurities a lot of the time you know
1:43:13my goals reflected that on Lamborghini
1:43:15Ranger of a six pack yeah you know
1:43:17we have a closing tradition on this
1:43:19podcast everywhere the last guest yeah
1:43:21asks a question for the next guest
1:43:23without knowing who they're leaving it
1:43:24for so they didn't realize that they
1:43:26were leaving it for you okay interesting
1:43:28question and I feel like I feel like I
1:43:30might know the answer based on what
1:43:31we've discussed
1:43:33okay I'm gonna make a rule you can't
1:43:34repeat something you've already said
1:43:36here okay make a little more difficult
1:43:37the question left for you not knowing
1:43:39it's for you is what scares you the most
1:43:44today
1:43:48can't talk about probation
1:43:55taking a shortcut
1:43:58I think I have a propensity to go fast
1:44:00and it's good in like Tech ways but it's
1:44:03bad in life ways and there will be
1:44:06opportunities that come from from the
1:44:08media from podcasts from you know being
1:44:09out of jail and it's not taking a
1:44:12shortcut it's like don't get distracted
1:44:15by the glittery lights and some
1:44:17opportunity that ultimately represents a
1:44:19shortcut
1:44:22thank you Billy yeah thank you for being
1:44:24thank you thank you for taking the
1:44:25questions and thank you for being so
1:44:26open and this is tough but I'm super
1:44:29glad I did this and
1:44:31the line of your questioning is amazing
1:44:33so respect where it comes from and uh
1:44:35yeah you're a master at this so thank
1:44:37you thank you Billy hope you pay all the
1:44:39restitution back hope you hope pirate
1:44:41becomes a huge success I hope all the
1:44:42lessons that you've learned over the
1:44:43last 10 years God you've learned lessons
1:44:46um all learned and they're replied and I
1:44:48hope we can sit here someday five years
1:44:50from now 10 years from now and talk
1:44:51about
1:44:52the opposite the success
1:44:55um which is usually the conversation I
1:44:56have with CEOs here okay the success
1:44:58what you've built how you've done it um
1:44:59and share all of those insights and
1:45:01lessons
1:45:02quick word from one of our sponsors I've
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1:45:06your virtual meeting experiences I think
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1:45:21connected to the employees or customers
1:45:22you're trying to engage with and now
1:45:24they're launching one of their biggest
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1:45:27events so far called Blue Jean Studio I
1:45:30actually used it the other day I did a
1:45:31virtual event using the studio which I
1:45:33think about 700 of you came to TV level
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1:45:42an event coming up and you're thinking
1:45:43about doing it virtually check out blue
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1:45:54immersive simple but high quality
1:45:56production virtual events quick one as
1:45:59you might know crafted are one of the
1:46:01sponsors of this podcast and they make
1:46:03really meaningful pieces of jewelry this
1:46:06lion piece they've made I wear all the
1:46:08time along with the little timepiece the
1:46:10sand timer that I wear often and the
1:46:12lion piece you might have seen Conor
1:46:13McGregor has a similar piece which was
1:46:15custom made for him for me it represents
1:46:18courage and if you walk through my house
1:46:20the house that I'm in right now if you
1:46:22walk six feet in that direction you'll
1:46:25see a huge lion portrait if you go
1:46:27upstairs you'll see a lion portrait if
1:46:28you look behind me on the Shelf near the
1:46:31top there you'll see a line as well the
1:46:32reason my house and my life is
1:46:34surrounded by lions is because they
1:46:35represent courage calmness and that
1:46:38tenacity that I've applied to my
1:46:40business success to my professional life
1:46:42into everything in between for me the
1:46:43line has always been an animal that can
1:46:45be almost a bit of a contradiction they
1:46:47are so loving and so caring of their own
1:46:49and can be powerful and courageous when
1:46:52necessary in order to achieve what they
1:46:54want to achieve so if you like me are a
1:46:56big fan of Courage bravery and ambition
1:46:59while also being calm and composed check
1:47:01out this line piece and let me know if
1:47:03you get it
1:47:06[Music]

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