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Biblical Demonology - Part 1 | Foreword and Chapters 1 to 2 — Transcript

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0:00And the seventy returned again with joy
0:01saying, "Lord, even the devils are
0:03subject unto us through thy name."
0:06And he said unto them,
0:09"I beheld Satan as lightning fall from
0:11heaven.
0:12Behold,
0:13I give unto you power to tread on
0:15serpents and scorpions and over all the
0:17power of the enemy.
0:19And nothing shall [music] by any means
0:20hurt you.
0:22Notwithstanding in this rejoice not
0:25that the spirits are subject unto you,
0:27but rather rejoice
0:29because your names [music] are written
0:31in heaven."
0:32So,
0:34>> [clears throat]
0:34>> this is the forward.
0:36And we'll just read some quotes from the
0:37book cuz I'm not going to do it any
0:38better and then I'm just going to add
0:40Essentially, what this is is it's a
0:42systematic treaty on on the biblical
0:44worldview of demonology, but it lacks a
0:47certain degree of pragmatism in everyday
0:49life. And so, my my Here's what most
0:53people think of when they think of
0:53demonology is it always gets tied to the
0:56idea of exorcism, right? Because anytime
0:58you start dealing with demons, usually
0:59people are just trying to figure out,
1:01you know, if exorcism is real or
1:03something like that or they're trying to
1:04learn they think somebody's possessed,
1:05how you do an exorcism. The entire
1:08cultural
1:09uh perspective on exorcisms is
1:12completely tied up in catho- Catholic
1:14theology, you know, for the most part.
1:17Um you kind of if you go back
1:18historically and you look at how people
1:21got rid of demons in the past, you go to
1:23the Babylonians and stuff and you read,
1:25you know, in the Middle East where
1:27they've got the jinn and they've got a
1:28lot of
1:29historical stuff, but it's all steeped
1:31in supernaturalism, you know, that's
1:33divorced from scripture. And here's what
1:35Here's what I want you guys to
1:36understand more than anything. This is
1:38the entire goal of everything that we're
1:40going to talk about. I don't want you
1:43guys to understand demons so then in the
1:46event that you run into something, you
1:48know how to do an exorcism.
1:50The purpose of studying demonology is
1:52not so that you could perform an
1:54exorcism. That's not even really a part
1:56of the major conversation. It's so that
1:59as Christians, you recognize where
2:02demonic activity is present so you can
2:04pray against it. Okay? That's
2:07[clears throat] honestly I don't ever
2:07want you to forget that because
2:09sometimes God uses demonic spirits as a
2:11judgment and you're not called to deal
2:14with them by pull you know, force-ably
2:16pulling them out of a person. You can't
2:18just stop God's judge- Now, sometimes
2:20there's a
2:21the case warrants for that, you know,
2:23you can definitely have a situation as a
2:25Christian just like the
2:28the apostles did where they encountered
2:29demons and they would command them in
2:31the name of Jesus or you know, whatever.
2:33Um
2:34Or they would you know, they just use
2:35the authority that Christ gave them, but
2:37it the authority was in Christ. Now, we
2:38say in the name of Jesus, I command you
2:40to leave this person, but you know, as
2:43Christians, we have the authority of
2:44Christ. I don't want to I don't want you
2:46guys
2:48to just associate demonology with the
2:50possibility of an exorcism. I want you
2:52to be able to recognize it cuz you guys
2:53do a lot of more evangelism than I do
2:55just by nature of time and schedules and
2:57stuff like that. I do a lot of like
2:59through the week evangelism, you know,
3:01and I see these things all the time with
3:02people. Ryan has encounters with people
3:04out at Texas Tech. You'll see people
3:06that are hissing and spitting and their
3:08demeanor changes and you look into their
3:10eyes and you see in their body language
3:11when the name of Jesus comes up or the
3:13gospel's being preached, they have this
3:15visceral reaction. Sometimes that can be
3:18totally human, but a lot of times it
3:20also indicates that you've got somebody
3:21that's if nothing else, they're
3:23demonically oppressed. Doesn't always
3:25mean they're demonized, but this day and
3:27age as the world has gone through this
3:29sort of period of like pagan
3:31re-enchantment, I really do think we're
3:33dealing with more demonized people than
3:35we have ever dealt with just by the
3:37nature of what you see. It it You you
3:40see evidence where
3:42sin is praised and on the increase and
3:45and good things and the things of Christ
3:47are constantly
3:48for lack of a better term, demonized,
3:50you know, where woe to those who call
3:52good evil and evil good.
3:54You see where that's that's usually your
3:56principal, your first sign that you've
3:58got some sort of demonic influence. When
4:01it's that overwhelming support of evil,
4:03this gleeful support of evil and this
4:07you know, horrible
4:09hatred for that which is righteous and
4:10holy. That's all So, like anytime I see
4:13like that overwhelming
4:16kind of
4:17attitude, you know, and you see it at
4:19Tech and in liberal society more than
4:21anything, the abortion stuff. Um you
4:25know, that's when you can start turning
4:26your prayers in in in more spiritual
4:28direction. And actually praying that the
4:30Lord would
4:33use exercise his authority in bringing
4:36bringing judgment upon the demonic stuff
4:40that's influencing it and praying the
4:42Lord will save those people or change
4:43the situation cuz at the end of the day,
4:45we don't have any abilities outside of
4:47Christ to deal with any of this. We
4:49can't see it, we can't necessarily test
4:50it, we encounter it,
4:52but we can recognize it and you can
4:54pray. I'm good.
4:57I'll just get a
4:58I'll get the same thing then. Yes,
4:59please.
5:00I'll get the ginger ale. I'll get the
5:01same one. Thank you. Sorry, that was me.
5:03So, anyway, now we were getting drink
5:05orders
5:06>> [laughter]
5:07>> for the audio record.
5:10Anyway, so
5:11>> [clears throat]
5:11>> this is the forward to the book. It says
5:13uh
5:14This epochal work on demonology
5:17certainly has been written for such a
5:19time as this. For not since the days of
5:21the church fathers has there been so
5:23much serious interest in and discussion
5:26of the power of demons in world history
5:28as in these days when the very powers of
5:30the heaven seem to be shaken
5:32so that both Christians and unbelievers
5:34have a deep conviction, often
5:35unexpressed, that what is happening on
5:38our earth must be traced to supernatural
5:41and evil powers. That's true. Like
5:43that's kind of what we were just talking
5:44about. Um
5:45There was a period of history where
5:49a lot of people really put a lot more
5:51stock into what the scripture said about
5:54you know, the evidence in scripture of
5:56demonic influence as Jesus came as the
5:58king of the kingdom, the kingdom was
5:59kingdom was here.
6:02The first
6:03the first outside of John the Baptist,
6:06um
6:08first time that we really have
6:10recognition of Christ's kingship was
6:12when the demons were like yelling and
6:14screaming about Christ's teaching. Think
6:16about that. Like they recognized the
6:19king was here and it freaked them out.
6:21And every time they encountered Christ,
6:22guys are like, "Man, we've never seen
6:23anything like this. Like you just you
6:25command the demons?" You know, it's
6:26like, "Well, why was he able to
6:27command?" Cuz he's the king. They
6:29recognized the king. There's no denying
6:31And that's one of the things that like I
6:32think about that all the time. You've
6:34got men everywhere that claim to be
6:36Christ, they lead cults, demons aren't
6:38scared of them. Jesus shows up and
6:40starts teaching, demons start crying
6:42out.
6:43Terrified, dude. You want to talk about
6:45You want to talk about recognition of
6:47kingship and um the stamp of authority
6:51on on who Christ is, just look at the
6:53spiritual world.
6:55Uh the evil side of the spiritual world
6:56was terrified of his presence, you know,
7:00and that is just another testimony that
7:02Jesus was who he said he was.
7:04Um We had a lot of different people in
7:06history that talked about this stuff.
7:08Uh you had um
7:10Justin Martyr talked about it in his
7:12first apology.
7:14He says the evil spirits were not
7:15satisfied with saying before Christ's
7:17appearance that those who were said to
7:19be the sons of Jupiter were born of him,
7:21but after he had appeared and had been
7:23born among men and when they learned how
7:26he had been foretold by the prophets and
7:27knew he would be believed on and looked
7:30for for by every nation,
7:32they again put forward other men, the
7:33Samaritans, Simon and Meander, who did
7:36mighty works by magic and deceived many
7:39and still kept them deceived. Later on
7:41you have Lactantius, you know, he he
7:44wrote something called Divine
7:46Institutes. He says the inventors of
7:48astrology, soothsaying, divination, and
7:50those productions which are called
7:52oracles and necromancy and the art of
7:55magic and whatever evil practices
7:57besides these men exercise either openly
8:00or in secret, these are they who taught
8:02men to make images and statues who in
8:05order that they might turn away the
8:06minds of man from the worship of the
8:08true God caused the countenances of dead
8:11kings to be erected and consecrated and
8:13assumed to themselves their names.
8:16Um Augustine in the City of God, he
8:18wrote quite a bit about um
8:23uh
8:24demons in human history. He said, "What
8:26spirit can that be which by hidden
8:28inspiration stirs men's corruption and
8:30goes them to adultery, feeds on the
8:32full-fledged iniquity unless it be the
8:35same that finds pleasure in such
8:36religious ceremonies,
8:38sets in the temples images of devils,
8:40loves to see in play the images of vices
8:43that whispers in secret some righteous
8:46saying to deceive the few who are good,
8:48scatters in public invitations to
8:50profligacy to gain possession of the
8:52millions who are wicked?" Uh in his
8:54seventh book, chapter 33, Augustine
8:56rightly argues that Christianity, the
8:58only true religion, has alone been able
9:00to manifest that the gods of the nations
9:02and most impure demons who desire to be
9:04thought gods, availing themselves of the
9:07names of certain defunct souls or the
9:09appearance of mundane creatures and with
9:11proud impurity rejoicing in things most
9:14base and infamous as though in divine
9:16honors and envying human souls their
9:18conversion to the true God. So, you
9:21know, throughout history we've got
9:22plenty of of of our Christian
9:25forefathers that actually saw this
9:27direct relationship between the demonic
9:30actively seeking uh to thwart Christian
9:35expansion and piety, right, in the lives
9:38of people. There's a war and they they
9:41they One of the things you'll you'll
9:42find out anything that's demonic will
9:44always relish in
9:46desecration. I think when I look at like
9:49the you know, like stuff like the
9:50Epstein logs and you know, all the
9:53pedophilia stuff that happens in elite
9:55circles,
9:56you know, that's the question that
9:57always comes up with the modern
9:59pedophile is why this sick obsession
10:01with children. I really think there's a
10:04there's a super demonic component with
10:06pedophiles that enjoy desecrating
10:10the
10:12something that we all know that children
10:14are not innocent. You know, they're born
10:16sinners, but there's a perceived
10:18innocence and a desecration of a child.
10:20You know, where
10:22children are
10:24not undefiled by nature but in many
10:27respects undefiled by the world. And
10:29that which is has any sort of appearance
10:31of innocence
10:33or any sort of you know, even even in
10:36scripture, you know, it's a it's a
10:37grievous sin to lead a child astray.
10:40Right? It's better to throw a millstone
10:41around the neck toss you into the sea,
10:44right? Then to lead a little one astray,
10:46right? There's a perceived innocence
10:47there. And
10:49and you see the demonic love is that
10:51kind of thing. Loves to take you often
10:54think of you know, in the book of Jude
10:56where we
10:58see that there was an argument over
11:00the body of Moses. You know, the
11:02question is what did the devil want with
11:05Moses' bones?
11:07You know? Nobody really knows. Barnes,
11:09do you do you know? Do you think you
11:10know?
11:11What do you want with the bones? Uh
11:14I don't know. I think that historically
11:17if you look at something like that and
11:18this just adds to the point. I I don't
11:20know that this is true.
11:21I'm not saying this isn't infallible
11:23interpretation. But especially in
11:26cultures where people were steeped in
11:28supernaturalism and worship of other
11:30gods, there was an often a desire to
11:33desecrate that which was holy. Yeah. And
11:35Moses had spent time in the presence of
11:36God. He'd done many miracles. He was
11:38seen as a holy man and I think that
11:40there was thought of a way to if you
11:43could if you could keep the body of
11:45Moses around not only could you
11:47desecrate it but you could use it to
11:49mislead the people. They would care more
11:52it's just like we see the Catholic
11:53relics and stuff, right? The way they
11:55keep saints' bones and you know,
11:57whatever else. And they worship them.
11:58They're kissing skulls and things like
12:00that. Becomes a a worshipful
12:02distraction. Well, that's very heavily
12:04demonic because anything that the
12:05demonic or the devil
12:08can use to take your focus off of
12:10worshipping the one true and living God
12:12and put you and set your mind on
12:13something earthly that captivates your
12:16attention or you can lead people
12:17spiritually using physical becomes
12:19idolatrous. It's it's heavily desirable
12:22and it's something that the demonic
12:23uses. So, anytime in culture you see
12:26sort of like the golden calf, whatever
12:28it may be that is is steering people
12:31into alternative forms of worship that
12:34are unbiblical and against God's
12:35commandments, especially the you know,
12:37the first and second commandment,
12:39is good evidence that something demonic
12:41is there, you know, in some capacity.
12:43Doesn't mean that everybody's possessed,
12:45but you have evidence of the demonic,
12:47right? Spirit of Antichrist if nothing
12:49else.
12:50Um
12:52Says as an indication of how general
12:55it was the ignoring of this biblical
12:56truth in the days of the great Puritan
12:58divines and this is the period of time I
13:00love to read more than anything else.
13:02I've noticed there's really nothing that
13:03the Puritans ever wrote on the demonic
13:05except for maybe brief brief snippets
13:08and commentaries.
13:10You didn't have
13:12you know, that Richard Baxter didn't
13:14write hardly anything about it. These
13:15are These are the I like that that he
13:17used these people as examples in his
13:19book because it meant he was pretty well
13:21read.
13:22I'm sure he could add more to the list
13:24but you know, Richard Baxter who was
13:26primarily known and praised for being
13:29one of the most pastoral of the
13:31Puritans. In fact, his theology wasn't
13:33great on everything but he was one of
13:36the best
13:37people's pastors and shepherds you'd
13:39ever have when it came to dealing with
13:41the practical experiences of life. He
13:44was really good and he never wrote about
13:46it, you know, he never I don't know if
13:48he ever encountered anything demonic or
13:49not. I mean, he he does talk a little
13:52about you know, like that book that Ryan
13:54made us read the what was it a
13:57>> of the tongue. Yeah.
13:59Talks a little about it in there. Does
14:01he? I don't But not much, right? Like
14:02it's not It's like little bits and Just
14:04little He might A lot of times the
14:06Puritans would throw back to maybe the
14:08devil, you know, or or Satan's
14:11influence. But when it comes to the
14:13subject of demonology outside of just
14:15acknowledging
14:17you know, a devil, they really didn't
14:20have much to say neither you know, they
14:22never really wrote much about it. John
14:23Owen didn't write about it. Wesley says
14:26devotes one page to the subject in his
14:28sermon of good angels. But he you know,
14:32he didn't talk about him as an active
14:33force in you know, the his modern day.
14:36And Edwards didn't really deal with any
14:38of these problems, you know, in
14:40scripture. In fact, you know, most of
14:42the
14:43most of the Puritans kind of took the
14:45Sethite position,
14:46you know, with the Nephilim that there
14:47was really nothing supernatural
14:48happening in Genesis 6. It was more of
14:51you know,
14:52it was more allegory for you know, uh
14:55uh human kings, you know, that were led
14:57astray which how many of you know
15:00anything about Genesis 6? I have heard
15:02of
15:02>> of God coming down procreating with the
15:04daughters of men. Producing the giants,
15:06right? Yeah, that's actually we're not
15:08going to dive deep into Genesis 6 but
15:10that is something that comes into play
15:12in biblical demonology and it's honestly
15:14it's the it's the side that I take cuz
15:16it to me it makes the most sense until
15:18something else turns up.
15:20Um
15:21Wait, just to be clear, you take more of
15:23that like mutation.
15:25What do you mean? Like uh I think I
15:28think that the Hebrew I take unless
15:30Michael Heiser's completely off base is
15:32in his interpretation of the Hebrew
15:33which there's plenty of uh controversy
15:36where that's concerned.
15:37I do think that the sons of God in
15:39Genesis chapter 6 could not have been
15:41men.
15:42Yeah.
15:42>> So, the question is what were they? And
15:44I think that they you know, I think the
15:46arguments for
15:48Right, there are a lot of arguments
15:49here. This isn't a Genesis 6 lesson. I
15:51already I can hear all the arguments
15:52that people say, well, we know that
15:54angels don't have sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
15:56yeah. They don't marry. It doesn't mean
15:58they can't. Wait, we humans have sex
16:00here in in marriages. When we go to
16:03heaven, we don't, right? But it doesn't
16:05mean that you can't, right? You know,
16:07it's like Jesus has a full body of a man
16:10but that doesn't mean he's engaged in
16:11any form of sexual relations. He never
16:13was and never will be, right? It doesn't
16:14mean he can't, right? That's one of the
16:17horrible things about Genesis chapter 6,
16:20I think is that those that shouldn't
16:22have came down and did something that
16:25was completely off limits and there were
16:27major consequences. Here's the thing in
16:29in the Old Testament, you have this
16:31never-ending line of giants almost up
16:34until both before and after the flood.
16:37The giants were still in the land.
16:38That's totally different conversation.
16:39How were the giants still here? But
16:42kissing cousins don't produce 10 and
16:4315-footers. Mhm. Okay? I mean, you just
16:46don't just because you had sinful men
16:48that we know that some people along the
16:50the sons of Seth or whatever and this
16:52this kingly line of people that were
16:54great and powerful or whatever, you
16:56know,
16:57that they took the daughters of men.
16:59It's very weird in in that language to
17:01say that sons of men took daughters of
17:03men. That's not That's not even how the
17:05Hebrew it's sons of God beneha Elohim.
17:08When you look at the term Elohim in
17:09Hebrew, it's a locate it's a it's it's a
17:11term that determines a location of
17:13origin not so much
17:17So, for instance, God is Elohim but
17:20Yahweh is Elohim but not all Elohim are
17:22Yahweh, okay? Elohim is like a is a
17:24locational term. So, you can have
17:26lowercase e Elohim But it's like from
17:29the heavenly It's describing more of
17:31like sort of this heavenly realm sort of
17:33situation. If these were This is the
17:35argument I take. I think it's I think
17:37it's accurate. I mean, there are a lot
17:38of people who disagree with me. Take it
17:40with a grain of salt. Do your own
17:41research.
17:42But when the Hebrew is sons of God
17:43beneha Elohim,
17:45that means sons of God. If if we were
17:48dealing with men, I think it would be
17:49very clearly beneha Adam. Sons of Adam,
17:52okay? And that's that's typically So,
17:54anyway, the reason why I bring that up
17:56is because
17:58um
17:59it it does factor into the larger
18:01question of what demons are which we'll
18:03get into and this is a possible theory
18:04that they're the disembodied spirits of
18:06the Nephilim, okay? Now, we'll get to
18:07that later. I think that's also a bit in
18:11um
18:12you know, findings in the book of Enoch.
18:13No, I'm not saying about that.
18:14>> No, I know I know what you mean. It's
18:15great. It's a great book. Yeah. So,
18:17that's why I was asking like
18:19you would lean more toward like the
18:21mutation that okay, because of their
18:23intercourse, they created you know, the
18:25the Nephilims.
18:26Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
18:28yeah.
18:29>> that's what I thought. Yeah. Yeah, so
18:30they whatever the whatever kids they
18:32were popping out weren't human. They
18:33were they were abominations and they I
18:36don't think that they
18:38carried the image of God. I think that
18:40they were cut off. I think it's one of
18:42the reasons why they roam the earth with
18:44no access, you know,
18:46to you know, heaven or salvation or
18:49anything. But there's not a lot in
18:50scripture that absolutely makes that
18:52clear. The perspicuity of scripture on
18:54this is
18:55do not It's not It's not crystal clear.
18:57So, we'll we'll talk more about that
18:58later. But the reason why I bring that
19:00up
19:01is because you know, demons wandering
19:03the earth, whatever they may be, we know
19:05they're supremely evil, right?
19:07And historically, you know, people
19:09always have to wonder where they active
19:11and where they not active. I still
19:13remember a story from a guy that was a
19:16a guy that I knew that was a missionary
19:18in Turkey who before he was living in
19:21Turkey, he traveled the world. He was
19:23somewhere in the mountains with a
19:25monastery of some sort. I don't remember
19:26where.
19:28It might have been it might have even
19:29been Tibet or something one of those
19:31Tibetan monasteries.
19:33But they told him a story that before
19:35World War kicked off in like
19:38you know, around 1938 or 1939 or
19:40whatever
19:42that this monastery all their gods left
19:45them. It wasn't a Christian monastery.
19:47They were freaking out. It was part of
19:48their history that at one point all the
19:50gods that they worshipped like and
19:52meditate and you know gave them
19:54spiritual wisdom and insight left them
19:57and said they were going to Germany.
19:58And I still never forget that story.
20:00Like it was like in the in the entire
20:03like group of occultists in the
20:04mountains were freaking out because then
20:06all of their you know familiar
20:09things that they dealt with on a regular
20:11level not in in the in the flesh. It
20:12wasn't like a you know it was spiritual
20:14influence you know that they they
20:16recognized the presence of these things
20:19you know by their own account in a
20:20vision or dream it was like we're we're
20:22leaving you and we're going to Germany.
20:24I don't know if that's true or not but I
20:25thought that was really interesting dude
20:26like Especially in World War II it's
20:28like Cuz this is what this is what
20:30Hunger says with the coming of the two
20:31great world wars especially the second
20:34and the frightful destruction brought
20:35upon Europe by Adolf Hitler the awful
20:37persecution of Christians on the part of
20:39communism and its swift progress around
20:41the world capturing the attention and
20:43devotion of hundreds of millions
20:45together with the deep deceptions that
20:46are today abroad and what the Brunner
20:49calls
20:50a a mass atheism which was formerly
20:52unknown men desiring to ascertain
20:54something of cause of the causes of
20:57these appalling eruptions of evil have
20:59turned back to the New Testament to
21:01search out its teaching on supernatural
21:02beings with constant mission
21:05whose constant mission it is to deceive
21:07to degrade to destroy men and he says
21:10during the last 10 years most of the
21:11scholarly volumes devoted to Hitler
21:13speak of him as a demon possessed man
21:15and present abundant evidence that when
21:18in some paroxysm of anger or under what
21:21he called inspiration his eyes looked
21:23out with an inhuman luster. Here's the
21:26thing it no matter what the conversation
21:28on the on the Jews are you know
21:31let nobody convince you that Hitler was
21:33a Christian prince. Yep.
21:36Yep. Hitler was not a good guy. Hitler
21:39might have been mad for some of the
21:40right reasons but
21:43without you know I I've spent a lot of
21:45time in the cesspool that is
21:48the historical writings of that time
21:50period including things that Hitler
21:52wrote and Hitler's conclusions to the
21:55problem were completely off base. Now
21:58that doesn't mean that everything we've
21:59been told about World War II is true.
22:02Okay it doesn't mean
22:03>> Like basis of reality.
22:05But there is there was a real demonic
22:07and occult element to Hitler. I firmly
22:09believe that and I I hate the fact that
22:11there are these guys out there with
22:12these podcasts
22:14that are convincing you know young men
22:16that somehow Germany was some sort of
22:19imperial Christianity that was waging a
22:21holy war. That's not the case whatsoever
22:24and this isn't a German occult history
22:25lesson
22:26but Hitler was not a good man and he was
22:29mad for some good reasons
22:32but ultimately his entire conclusion and
22:34the world he wanted to design was
22:36completely antithetical. It wasn't just
22:38saving Germany he had a he had a vision
22:41of a thousand year not necessarily total
22:45world domination where he was the ruler
22:47but you had guys that were close to
22:49Hitler like Himmler that were taking out
22:51thousand year leases on castles and
22:53stuff because they thought the the
22:55success of the German army
22:57was going to breed this sort of like
22:59I say unholy millennium because I think
23:01about the millennium in terms of a
23:03scriptural
23:04context but they they the occultists in
23:07Germany especially in the SS and those
23:09that uh
23:11subscribed to ideas of Volkish and
23:12Innerbe which is a different topic they
23:15also kind of believed in this idea of a
23:17thousand year reign.
23:18You know it's sort of this desecration
23:20of of true you know biblical holiness is
23:22a false utopian ideal that was steeped
23:25in mysticism and occultism.
23:29But anyway think about that. So you go
23:31back and even look in those time periods
23:32people that were writing without a bias
23:35you know we're just talking about the
23:38perceptions of Hitler almost inhuman in
23:40his eyes sometimes you know with these
23:43you know overwhelming fits of anger.
23:46I think that's interesting.
23:51It says the demonic tends to become
23:52satanic totally destructive in
23:54opposition to all good and all
23:56creativity and so the groups that
23:59glorify themselves beyond measure are
24:01brought down in total destruction and
24:03that's true. I'm telling you what you it
24:06doesn't when you have something
24:08even if on the outside it looks like
24:10it's a good thing
24:12if it's if it's being influenced by the
24:14demonic and not the Holy Spirit you will
24:16see the total destruction of it at some
24:18point. It just because you got to
24:20understand this
24:21anytime you're dealing with the demonic
24:23you're dealing with supernatural levels
24:25of intelligence but you're also dealing
24:27with a tormented person of swords that
24:30is relatively insane. It's like the
24:33Joker you know from from Batman almost.
24:35Like I'm not going to this is kind of a
24:37stupid analogy you know no way am I
24:39saying demons are kind of like the I
24:41hate those guys that are always dragging
24:42movies into it but the the parallel is
24:45Joker's insane but he's also smart right
24:48like but he's completely insane.
24:51Same thing is true. I think that they're
24:52tormented so much and without any hope
24:55that they're actually quite insane. So
24:57whereas there might be some success it
24:59always ends in total destruction whether
25:01it be by the insanity of what they're
25:04doing or God's judgment on it at some
25:07point. It will never succeed. It will
25:09never succeed. It's already been judged
25:11in Christ. There you you you have
25:13temporal victories but the war has
25:15already been won. There is no there is
25:17no
25:18eternal battle of good and evil here on
25:20the earth fighting to see who's going to
25:22get supremacy.
25:23The demonic has already lost. It is
25:26hopeless. There is no chance of any form
25:29of redemption and essentially just
25:31imagine
25:33being miserable
25:35in a way that you can't fathom waiting
25:38for more misery of an eternal nature.
25:40Like that that tends to do something to
25:42the
25:43we can't even really meditate on the
25:44horrors of hell as regular human beings
25:47who've been given everything to us so
25:49like we're drinking delicious peach
25:51beverages fruit punches with bubbles you
25:54know and we try to contemplate
25:55[clears throat] that and we ate s'mores
25:57tonight right and barbecue and we try to
25:59like there we have good things right the
26:01demonic has no good things. Anything
26:04that they seek after is going to be
26:06vicariously through other people in the
26:09form of
26:10you know demonization trying to
26:12experience the depraved desires that
26:14they have um
26:16through other people cuz they have no
26:18body of their own.
26:19Um or leading people astray simply
26:22because it's just like they absolutely
26:24hate anything that is good right I mean
26:27now I want you guys to remember this I
26:29think from a reform perspective. We look
26:32at the idea of total depravity total
26:34depravity does not mean that people
26:36could not possibly be more depraved.
26:38Total depravity recognizes original sin
26:40that the human will was totally
26:42corrupted and predisposed to evil and
26:46cannot change that disposition on its
26:48own apart from God's work
26:50in a in a human heart but if God removed
26:53his restraining hand from a depraved
26:55human heart there would be no difference
26:59and distinction between the human and
27:01the demonic.
27:02You see different degrees of this when
27:04God removes his his common grace from
27:07man you see different levels of
27:08hardening so people say well how do how
27:10is it possible this guy can
27:13you know like the whole most horrible
27:15crimes right like this dude ate like
27:17four people in Florida right and like
27:20you know the lived in utter filth and
27:22you know dude
27:24you you see those stories disheveled
27:25people that you know serial killers they
27:27were eating people stuffing them in vats
27:29of acid. Dude that's the human heart
27:31unrestrained. That's not just a guy
27:33that's like worse than the rest of us
27:34cuz we're somehow better. That's God
27:36completely taking the hand of not even
27:38completely he's removing the hand of
27:40restraint from this person allowing this
27:42to take place. This very I mean what you
27:44were seeing on the earth with things
27:46like that is what the demonic is. The
27:49demonic has no grace whatsoever
27:51completely unrestrained evil. We see
27:54what happens when God removes the
27:55restraint on human hearts. It's
27:57completely unbridled shocking evil.
28:00If there would be there's no difference
28:02between the heart of a man that God
28:05removes his his his hand of restraint
28:07from and the demonic it looks the same
28:09right so just remember that.
28:11Um
28:14It says in such an hour is this
28:15philosophy will not help us to
28:17understand what is really taking place
28:18in the mind of unregenerated humanity.
28:21Neither can economics
28:23uh sorry.
28:26All right I don't know I'm getting texts
28:28about an emergency at work.
28:30Um
28:31In such an hour is this oh yeah page 10
28:33it's the introduction page there you go
28:35that page.
28:36Um
28:37In such an hour is this philosophy will
28:39not help us to understand what's really
28:40taking place in the mind of
28:42unregenerated humanity. That's what I
28:44was just talking about. And neither can
28:46economics sociology or psychology tell
28:49us what is yet to come. We turn in this
28:51hour of deepening darkness to light
28:54emanating from God's word. So he's
28:56saying like dude nobody else in the
28:58world is going to be able to help us
29:00except for what God's given us in
29:01scripture if we're going to try to
29:02understand this. And he says the only
29:04truly inspired volume whose predictions
29:06consistently irresistibly come to pass
29:09as the time of their fulfillment draws
29:10near and whose analysis of the
29:12fundamental forces at work in the last
29:13days is a part of the very wisdom of
29:16God.
29:17And so we'll go to page one.
29:20Uh
29:23One second let me just see what this is.
29:42Actually that sounds um
29:45which sermon was it when Ravi was
29:46preaching but the devil will always
29:48sprinkle in a little bit of the truth a
29:50part of the deception in order to
29:52fully deceive you because you're trying
29:55to go off the hint of that truth.
29:57>> Yeah, I think it was one of the starting
29:58ones on Genesis.
29:59>> Yes. Yeah. Yes.
30:01The original temptation.
30:03>> Yeah. That's right.
30:05What were you saying? Uh this quote that
30:07sermon how
30:09Satan would use like a little sprinkle
30:12of the truth he would sprinkle it in.
30:14>> Oh yeah. So there's something that you
30:16could rely upon and then next thing you
30:18know it will lead you to ultimate
30:20deception.
30:21>> Yeah. Did God not say hey yeah?
30:23>> Yes. Exactly.
30:24>> a lot of that when I was dealing with
30:25>> Wait. You see that with abortions like
30:28Well they're not babies.
30:30Yeah you're saying
30:31>> Yeah exactly. Are they really babies?
30:32That's the question. Are they really
30:33babies? Right?
30:36A lump of cells.
30:39Yeah. So this is the problems of
30:41biblical demonology. So this is where he
30:42starts. He starts laying the foundation
30:44for biblical
30:46You guys can go back and read the whole
30:47chapter if you want but these are the
30:48highlights.
30:52It forms together with angelology and
30:54satanology an indispensable branch of
30:56systematic theology dealing with the
30:58realm of evil supernaturalism. As such
31:00it constitutes the only true basis for
31:02understanding and evaluating strange and
31:04bewildering phenomena which have
31:06perplexed both the ancient and the
31:08modern world. So
31:10and he's specifically talking about the
31:12New Testament
31:14being our source here.
31:17Now we're going to get into this is the
31:19problem of the silence of revelation.
31:22The Bible says a lot but doesn't say
31:24everything and that's where a lot of
31:26people get lost in speculation
31:29superstition things that aren't
31:30necessarily helpful.
31:33He says the limits of human knowledge
31:34must be kept in mind. For example on
31:36such a seemingly important phase of this
31:39subject as the origin of demons and then
31:41he references the work of a guy named
31:43Ezra Abbott.
31:44Ezra Abbott
31:46observes that the scripture is all but
31:47silent. He says there are other minor
31:49points of the topic too where the
31:50investigator with excusable zeal for his
31:52subject could wish for full
31:55fuller revelation. We don't We don't
31:57have everything but we have a lot and
32:00there are a lot of people say well the
32:01Bible just doesn't tell us. Bible tells
32:03us a lot more than a lot of people
32:05thinks think it does. It gives us a lot
32:07of different talks a lot in the Old
32:08Testament and the New Testament about
32:10the subjects [snorts]
32:11of angelology satanology and demonology.
32:15And so we really we need to stay in our
32:17lane
32:18but we have to explore the scriptures
32:19deeply on all of these on all of these
32:22matters and that's ultimately what is
32:24praised about Unger more than anything
32:25else is that he did just that.
32:30This is about the problems of the
32:31accuracy of interpretation.
32:37And I'm just going to read one quote
32:39here. However
32:40the much that has been written has been
32:42victimized by extremism. On the one hand
32:46by ultra emotionalism giving free reign
32:48to romantic credulity and uncontrolled
32:50play of the imagination resulting in
32:51extravagant superstition.
32:54This is why we have to be careful when
32:55we teach demonology cuz it very easily
32:57breeds superstition. It very easily
32:59fuels superstition. Often times when
33:02people become
33:04uh
33:04aware of the reality of the demonic
33:07all of a sudden the demonic is
33:08everywhere. Right? I remember this one
33:10guy one time he found out that I I'd
33:12worked with quite a few demonized people
33:14and had just been doing a lot of stuff
33:16around the nation and he said um oh I
33:19got a book with the name of every demon
33:21in it.
33:22He's like you can borrow it if you want.
33:25I'm good.
33:27Did it come from scripture? You know
33:29like it was one of it was just one of
33:31those things it was like dude I'm like
33:32that's
33:34you get these charismatics and stuff
33:36that start writing these books. This is
33:38the demon of you know I get really tired
33:41of always hearing about the spirit of
33:42Jezebel. You know all these churches and
33:44charismatics we got a spirit of Jezebel
33:46here. We got a spirit of Jezebel here.
33:47You know it's almost like well you also
33:49have just a lot of sinful people that
33:51are lusting and craving power. Right?
33:54Like it's not always demonic. Right?
33:57There could be a demonic component here
33:59but it's you know you can't blame
34:01everything on demons and and you can't
34:03be like the mystics that looked at the
34:05world as if even the trees [snorts] had
34:07spirits living in them necessarily. You
34:09know what I mean in the rivers. We'll
34:11talk more about that in a minute. Um go
34:13ahead.
34:14You going to say something?
34:17>> Anyway we can't we can't allow this to
34:18make us superstitious. Um
34:22And this is the problem with the
34:23prevalence of superstition. It'd be
34:24difficult to find a subject anywhere
34:26replete with more fantastic distortion
34:29the subject being demonology and
34:30unbridled extravagance than popular
34:33demonology uncontrolled by the truths of
34:35divine revelation.
34:37Anything you deal with as far as demonic
34:40research it has to be grounded in
34:41scripture. Okay? Otherwise you're going
34:43to end up in in in some form of
34:45superstitious
34:47uh teaching. Uncounted multitudes
34:49throughout the centuries have lived and
34:50died in the clutches of an appalling
34:52fear and an absurd superstition under
34:55the thralldom of evil supernaturalism.
34:58This is not something that should make
35:00us fearful. A lot of times when people
35:02start dealing with demonology they start
35:03getting freaked out. This freaks me out.
35:05This I freaks me out. I can't think
35:07about it. Then you're not understanding
35:08what the scripture has to say about it
35:09because you don't have anything to be
35:11scared of. Right? This is demons aren't
35:13something to fear. Uh in any capacity.
35:16They have no authority over the
35:18Christian.
35:19Maybe for the the unregenerate yeah
35:22there's a lot
35:23they don't carry the authority of
35:24Christ. Um
35:27there's probably good reason to be
35:28scared you know as an unregenerate
35:30person but for the Christian more or
35:32less there's nothing to be scared of.
35:34Like we already like dude the one that
35:36lives inside of us is is the one that
35:38you know was causing them to shriek in
35:39terror at the sight. Right? Like it's
35:41what what do we what are we worried
35:42about? You don't have to be scared of
35:44the dark. You can walk through dark
35:45warehouses in the middle of the night
35:47that everybody says are haunted and you
35:49can own the darkness. I still remember
35:51my dad used to send me to lock doors at
35:53night and like this whole whole hallway
35:56at night was like absolutely dark. There
35:58would be like bats.
36:01Like bats just like squealing and just
36:03like going all over and then I would
36:05have my torch and I would just go lock
36:07my doors come back flying.
36:10>> [laughter]
36:11>> Yeah. That's right man. It's crazy. You
36:13know boogeyman. Yeah. That's right.
36:15[laughter] No man. Like Christians can
36:18walk through the darkness and and own it
36:19so to speak. I mean with an with an air
36:21of of authority and in situations that
36:25are heavily demonic
36:27you don't have to be scared of demonic.
36:29You should never should be.
36:31Um
36:33Christian demonology under the powerful
36:34impact and purifying effect of the New
36:36Testament remained on a high level for
36:39several centuries and the demonology of
36:41the earliest church fathers was
36:42practically that of the New Testament.
36:44So when you look at the early church
36:45fathers and what they wrote about that's
36:47on page four. Um Second paragraph.
36:50Second paragraph. Yeah it's uh
36:52you know a lot of the early church
36:54fathers that wrote about demonology it
36:56was it was really
36:58academically rigorous and and void of
37:00the type of superstition superstition
37:02that entered in in the Middle Ages. You
37:05saw that with guys like Luther. Whereas
37:06I don't listen if the demonic was going
37:08to mess with anybody I don't see why it
37:10wouldn't mess with Luther. So I don't
37:12discount all of Luther's experiences but
37:14you got to remember Luther was steeped
37:17in a time of in Germany which was
37:19riddled with a certain level of
37:20superstition. So I I do think to some
37:23extent Luther was probably a little more
37:26superstitious than I would like but if
37:29anything if the demonic was around and
37:31we know it was waging war against the
37:33Catholic Church I have no doubt that it
37:35would go after Luther. Right? So like I
37:37I don't discount some of Luther's
37:39experiences. Luther had an experience
37:41where he's like he's translating the the
37:44the the Bible you know and uh into
37:46German and you know he saw the devil
37:49appear in the corner of his room and he
37:51threw an inkwell at it. You know and
37:52everyone's like that's that's crazy.
37:55Right? Like that's crazy and people
37:56would still go look at the ink stain on
37:57the wall or whatever. You know
38:00do I know what happened there? No. Am I
38:02going to say absolutely something
38:03appeared? No.
38:06I'm not opposed to it.
38:08I mean when you look back at what was at
38:11stake and what God did through Luther
38:12like I don't know why something wouldn't
38:14be there to mess with him. You know the
38:15first time I heard the story I thought
38:17of it as very allegorical. Like okay you
38:20know he threw the ink at the devil. Well
38:22what does the ink represent? Written
38:24words. You know he like the word of God
38:27was going forward because he wrote the
38:29New Testament gave the word to the
38:31people. And because of that caused the
38:33reformation you know. Very you know I
38:35what I like about that story more than
38:37anything is his attitude towards the
38:38devil.
38:39>> Yes. It wasn't disrespectful. It was get
38:42out of my room.
38:44So that's
38:45>> no authority being here.
38:47>> You have no authority here. Doing the
38:48Lord's work.
38:50And he threw whatever he had at him.
38:52>> [laughter]
38:53>> He just grabbed the ink and he chucks it
38:55at the devil. Like whatever. I don't
38:56know if that happened or not. I don't
38:57know what was going on. Right? But I can
38:59tell you this
39:00that that really should be the attitude
39:02We should we should all be more like
39:04pitbulls to snakes than we should be
39:06like mice to humans when it comes to the
39:08demonic. Really. Seriously. Like when
39:11you're encountering something demonic
39:12don't be scared to use the name of
39:13Christ. you're out evangelizing on the
39:15street you got somebody up that
39:17comes up to you that's hissing at the
39:19name of Christ just say
39:22I rebuke that in Jesus' name. Like you
39:24know put a smile on your face and
39:27something else to do in situations like
39:29that
39:31are to start praying you know and Ryan's
39:32preaching or something and you guys are
39:34around start praying that the Lord would
39:36beat back the demonic and open the
39:37hearts of the people. That's not that's
39:39not a that's not a super it's not a
39:41superstitious prayer.
39:43You know, to pray with a spiritual
39:45mindset that you can't see what's going
39:46on but God does. So now you're not
39:48making all these judgment calls and
39:50accusations about what's happening, but
39:52you can sometimes just get that sense
39:54that man, the demonic's in the air
39:55tonight. So you can start praying, Lord,
39:57I just pray that you would subdue the
39:58demonic and that you, you know, and you
40:01rebuke that and you have you know what,
40:03rebuke first, ask questions later. You
40:05got someone that comes up that looks
40:06looks like they're just their eyes are
40:08different and they're hissing almost to
40:10say, I rebuke you in Jesus name and
40:12watch the tail come right between the
40:13legs and they'll take off running, dude.
40:15Doesn't mean you're there to pull it out
40:17of him, but you can stop a lot of those
40:19situations that are getting unruly and
40:21and chaotic just by recognizing that the
40:24demonic is probably there and then just
40:27dealing with it, right? So that's when
40:28it goes back to I want you to remember
40:30the study of demonology isn't always
40:32about exorcism, it's about recognizing
40:34it so you can use
40:36you can use prayer against it
40:38strategically. So um
40:41Have you heard the story of um
40:43when Luther was like I farted
40:46the devil's general direction.
40:48>> [laughter]
40:50>> Yeah, I honestly like his attitude. I
40:52like his attitude.
40:54>> [laughter]
40:55>> In modern times, even in enlightened
40:56lands, people have not been guiltless of
40:58such excesses as burning witches at the
41:00stake. You know, the stuff that happened
41:02um with Cotton Mather and the Salem
41:05witch trials and stuff. That was that
41:07was that was not a good mark on on
41:10Christian history, but they did
41:12recognize the sin of witchcraft in a way
41:15and even when you look back at the
41:17depictions of Tituba, the Haitian witch
41:20or whatever that was part of this thing.
41:22They drew her and like she was the most
41:23ugly woman you've ever seen in your
41:25life.
41:26And that [snorts] is kind of the problem
41:27today is witches are kind of glamorized
41:30and glorified and then they're all
41:31beautiful. You watch TV shows with
41:33witches and they're all hot and sexy,
41:35right? the white witches and then you
41:37have the black witches and then you have
41:39like the morally gray ones. But like
41:42yeah, and then but like yeah, you're
41:43right. I mean it's just like Lord of the
41:45Rings. Like on TikTok when I had it, I
41:47mean praise the Lord I got rid of that
41:49before it's and Israel took over. Um but
41:52like
41:53I'm
41:54being serious about this, but there
41:55there'd be people who claim to be like
41:57white witches. They're doing like good
41:59things or they they claim that they're
42:01trying to do good things and it's all
42:03just a monk. Yeah, all right. How do you
42:05know that the uh
42:07I'm asking you a question. How do you
42:09know that the witch in the story is a
42:10bad guy?
42:13Okay, exactly.
42:15So So back to basics. That's something
42:18that I've drilled into your head because
42:20when she watches Disney movies and
42:21stuff. Now they have the reversal of the
42:23story, you know, like the the
42:25sympathizer like Maleficent went from
42:27being an evil figure in like Sleeping
42:30Beauty or whatever to being the
42:31misunderstood woman. She's not really
42:34evil, she's misunderstood.
42:36That's a
42:38It's a common theme
42:40in the modern movie is that evil's not
42:42really evil, it's just misunderstood,
42:44right? Or the depictions of witches like
42:46when I was a teenager the movie the show
42:48Charmed was out. Witches living
42:50together. You watch the American Horror
42:51Story where they've got covens of
42:53witches. They're all for the most part
42:55good looking women. They're they're
42:56they're they're they're they're you
42:58know, they're the good guys of the
42:59story.
43:01You know, when I Nickelodeon or whatever
43:03had Sabrina the Teenage Witch when I was
43:05growing up. Witchcraft was fun, cute,
43:07you know, the women are pretty. The
43:08cultural mindset towards witchcraft went
43:11from looking at all witches as evil and
43:14grotesque and always being depicted as
43:17absolutely like basically decomposing
43:20and green to being like beautiful and
43:22then you run into the Harry Potter Now
43:24I'm not the guy that says you can't read
43:25Harry Potter, you know, I'm not you
43:27know, that says you can't enjoy any of
43:29these stories, but just understand that
43:31you know, there's a
43:33there's a cultural shift that wants to
43:35make
43:36the image of witchcraft pretty.
43:38And that's one thing I appreciate about
43:41like at least what happened in the Salem
43:42witch trials was there was nothing They
43:44handled witchcraft for what witchcraft
43:46should be handled, but I don't think
43:48there was a lot of real witchcraft
43:50there, so it's sort of a a blot on
43:52history, but anyway
43:54I digress.
43:55Um and there's superstition that comes
43:57in through people that divorce
43:58themselves from like the teachings of
43:59the New Testament. For instance, like
44:01this
44:01the significance that is attached to
44:05like say the burning of witches, you
44:07know, for instance, this comes from this
44:09larger superstition of the demonic being
44:11terrified of fire, you know, sort of as
44:13a weakness. Even, you know, older
44:16traditions lighting candles in places
44:19to to to steer the demonic away or the
44:21burning of sage in a house to clear it
44:24out or all these different things. None
44:25of this has any basis in scripture
44:27whatsoever. Sage does not clear spirits
44:29out. Fire does not scare them away. If
44:31it did, then all these pagan tribes that
44:32were doing rain dances and stuff to
44:34their demon gods around a a fire, they
44:36would have scared all the demons away.
44:37It's like do fire These are immaterial
44:39beings. They don't have bodies. You
44:41don't You don't run them off by doing
44:45salt circles or hanging things above
44:48your door necessarily. The only thing I
44:50would ever say for somebody that was
44:52having some serious problems is hanging
44:53scripture up on the wall.
44:55Um
44:57I've had to deal with non-Christians
44:58before that didn't know anything and I'm
45:01like, dude, like I'll prove it's
45:02demonic. Just start hanging scripture up
45:04on the wall everywhere and you you sleep
45:06paralysis will disappear, you know, so
45:08to speak. And it did. You know, it was a
45:10testimony to the validity of scripture.
45:11They can't stand anything related to
45:14scripture. The only thing that actually
45:16deters
45:18the demonic is the word of God and
45:21Mhm. You know, which is is rooted in the
45:24authority of God himself. It's the only
45:25the authority of God that So like in a
45:27house where you're dealing with
45:27something demonic or a person, you don't
45:29need to do the Catholic rite of exorcism
45:31with all the little stuff and the holy
45:33water. Like forget that, dude. Just it's
45:34the authority that God has given his
45:36people to exercise it and tell that
45:38demon to go present itself for Christ
45:40for judgment. Um
45:45Says the entire religious environment
45:47out of which ancient Israel was divinely
45:49chosen to be a witness and a guardian of
45:51the truth of the one true God was full
45:53of demonism.
45:54The genii of ancient Babylon swarmed
45:57everywhere, creeping under doors,
45:58filling every nook, lurking menacingly
46:00behind walls and hedges, relentlessly
46:03demanding incantations, magical prayers,
46:06religious veneration for their
46:08appeasement.
46:10Um
46:12All kinds of things that were steeped in
46:13supernaturalism, you know, um
46:17I don't think I'm going to read all
46:18this.
46:20Yeah, it says um
46:23Grotesque superstitions, bizarre rites
46:25connected with demon worship are
46:26practically endless in their variety.
46:28Chinese spirits
46:30need the good things of their former
46:31existence and there and are therefore
46:33supplied with mock houses, mock clothes,
46:35mock money, other comforts.
46:38Parts of India, devil dancers, devil
46:40devil dances, blood sacrifices,
46:42you know, in modern Hispanic culture,
46:44Dia de los Muertos, right? Like you take
46:47food to the graveside, you know, for
46:49your loved ones which you're here, that
46:50kind of thing. They don't see that as
46:52demonic, but it's it's very demonic at
46:55its core.
46:56Um [clears throat]
46:59Today in an age of scientific progress
47:01and enlightenment, this is
47:03the problem of the preponderance of
47:05doubt on page six. Today in an age of
47:07scientific progress and enlightenment,
47:08the most effective barrier to the
47:10adequate understanding of demonology is
47:12not a fanatical gullibility embracing
47:14mere superstition, but a radical
47:16skepticism rejecting the supernatural.
47:18That's the other problem here is like
47:20when you move into
47:22You you either have the problem of too
47:24much emotionalism that breeds
47:26superstition or you bring in too much
47:28rationalism that breeds too much doubt.
47:31And as Christians, you have both sides
47:33of that problem, right? So as for us, we
47:36need to make sure that we're rooted in
47:37the word. It's real.
47:39It's here in some capacity.
47:42What does the scripture teach us about
47:43it? How do we deal with it without
47:44becoming superstitious, but without
47:47moving too far to the right and saying
47:50it's all stupid and none of it really
47:52exists or none of it exists anymore.
47:55That's that's swinging too far in the
47:56wrong direction.
47:58Um
47:59It is true.
48:02Uh let's see. Hold on. I don't know if I
48:04want to see this.
48:06Yeah, anyway, that I I covered that just
48:07a second ago.
48:09Um The qualification of evil further
48:11complicates the This is on page seven.
48:13Qualification of evil further
48:15complicates the matter and makes any
48:16naturalistic approach uh doubly
48:19hazardous. You do not want
48:23to approach this demonology the subject
48:26of demonology from an
48:28too much of a naturalistic standpoint.
48:31The powers to be dealt with
48:35uh are not only above the natural realm
48:38and hence wiser and more powerful than
48:39man in the natural realm, but they are
48:41evil. We don't take the things of the
48:44earth or our own superstitions or our
48:47own scientific inquiries to try to
48:49figure out how we deal with the demonic.
48:51Everything that we decide to do needs to
48:54be somehow rooted in scripture
48:56because we're dealing with something
48:58that is not natural, you know, you know
49:01what I mean? It's it is supernatural.
49:04Uh and so there's really going to be
49:06nothing at our disposal that we can use
49:08and I think of all the things people do
49:11even in
49:13You know, it's funny to me. It's like
49:15the demonic loves that naturalistic
49:16stuff, you know, it's like Satanism and
49:18the occult. It's all tied up in
49:21all these things you have to do or know,
49:23you know, the esoteric knowledge, the
49:26you know, the hidden secret knowledge
49:28about how to It's like the Solomon's
49:30keys thing, you know, that
49:32you get back into sometimes as people
49:34study demonology. What if I just had
49:36this this magical sigil that would allow
49:39me to control demons? Well,
49:41what makes you think that demons are all
49:43of a sudden bound to like fake words and
49:46and symbols?
49:47You know, it's this idea that there's
49:49this governing system of of law that the
49:53demons are bound to outside of God's
49:56law. And that's what was kind of breed
49:58into superstition. I don't put any stock
50:00into stuff like Solomon's keys.
50:02Historically, if if anything like that
50:04ever seemed like it was actually helpful
50:07or useful, it's because the demonic's
50:08playing along with it. Right? It's like
50:11in in some ways it's like making you
50:13think that these things are useful for
50:15interaction. You know, like Ouija boards
50:18and stuff. Using a Ouija board or doing
50:20a seance attracts, it doesn't control,
50:23right? Like you it's like playing
50:25Russian roulette. Anytime you do these
50:26rituals, it's like you might knock on
50:29seven doors and maybe only one of them
50:32has somebody behind it. Not everybody
50:34that uses a Ouija board or something to
50:35try to to contact something demonic ever
50:38gets a response, but sometimes they
50:39knock on the wrong door at the wrong
50:40time.
50:42Right? And then something's there and
50:43you don't know what it is necessarily.
50:45And it and it and then all hell breaks
50:47loose. I've got a story about that from
50:48when I was a kid. Um I'll I'll tell you
50:51guys that some other time.
50:53But um
50:54the rich store of material contained in
50:56the Old and the New Testament affords a
50:58promising field for sound exegesis. A
51:01lot of people will take the Ouija board
51:02and they'll start asking them stuff.
51:04Can you explain to me, you know, what
51:07it's like
51:08you know, what what's hell like? What's
51:09heaven like? You know, it's got and you
51:11just get nons- nonsense answers or or
51:13completely heretical, angry answers or
51:17it goes bad
51:18it goes south real quick and then people
51:20in the house just start dealing with
51:21crazy problems and stuff. Like anytime
51:24you go outside of the scripture or to
51:26the demonic or to the occult for any
51:28sort of knowledge about how to deal with
51:30the demonic, you're already
51:31you strayed from the the the safe path,
51:34right? The only thing we look at is the
51:36Old and the New Testament.
51:38Um
51:39you can look back at extra-biblical
51:41writings
51:42that are consistent with the Old and New
51:44Testament or use it as a backdrop, but
51:47those still aren't where we base all of
51:49our opinions. Most of Most of that's
51:51just we look at the experience of
51:53experiences of people long ago that
51:55dealt with the demonic and we see like
51:57wow, wow, they they claim to have this
51:59experience. They claim to be dealing
52:00with this. They claim to be dealing with
52:01that.
52:02But their conclusions, if not agreeable
52:05to what the scriptures have presented,
52:07have to be disregarded.
52:09So there are three
52:11um
52:12erroneous views in relationship to
52:17the subject of demonology. The first one
52:19is a humanistic view, which you can and
52:22I'm going to go through these pages
52:23pretty quick. You guys feel free to read
52:24them. They're a little technical
52:27and I kind of hard to understand exactly
52:29what he's saying, but I I think I've got
52:31the gist of it. Um
52:34you have these erroneous views of how to
52:35even approach demonology. How do we
52:37approach it? From what viewpoint do we
52:40approach the subject of demonology?
52:42You have the humanistic view, which is
52:44essentially that anything that is
52:46perceived to be demonic is a human
52:49invention or a psychological projection
52:53of sorts. We're projecting our own
52:55mental illnesses or our superstitions
52:58onto reality and this explains the
53:00origin of the demonic.
53:03That is inconsistent and incompatible
53:05with scripture. That's the humanistic
53:07view.
53:08It's like folk tales come to life, you
53:10know, so to speak.
53:10>> Yeah. I was actually thinking of like
53:13some other folk tales about how
53:15there were these, you know, familiar
53:16spirits or, you know, like thought
53:19projections and, you know, people were
53:21you know, dealing with these thought
53:22projections and I was like, no, that's
53:24not really the case, you know.
53:26Even though there could be something
53:28that is, you know, actually with
53:30um monitoring you and like
53:33making sure like hey, I know everything
53:35thing about you. Seems like I know
53:37everything in your mind. It's that's not
53:40truly the case.
53:41Like an actual thought projection. Yeah.
53:43And he's like for instance, you take
53:45some of the seven demonic problems.
53:47I heard [snorts] the story long I I
53:49think this is a real story.
53:50Hispanic family.
53:53Mom, don't know why she was possessed,
53:55but I do think she was possessed. If I
53:57can find the interview, I'll send it out
53:58in our little group text. You guys
54:00listen to it because I think it's true.
54:05She was insane, dude. She was losing her
54:06mind. She'd sit in a chair catatonic,
54:09murmur to herself, speaking languages
54:11people didn't understand. She would try
54:13to cut herself up. She wouldn't take a
54:14shower. Years and years and years of
54:16this went by. She was taken in for
54:18psychological evaluation. They couldn't
54:20figure out what was wrong with her. When
54:22she was under psychological evaluation,
54:24she was in her right mind. It's not a
54:26crime to smell bad, you know, and
54:29to be disheveled and to have cuts and
54:31bruises. And then they kick her back
54:33out. She'd come back home, go catatonic
54:35again. Kids had to fend for themselves.
54:37Sometimes she'd lash out, start beating
54:39them mercilessly. The kids that were
54:42left alone cuz the father couldn't deal
54:44with the marriage. He stayed gone most
54:46of the time. So the kids just kind of
54:47fended for themselves. They had a
54:49possessed mother sitting in a corner of
54:50a room out of her mind and I really
54:53think she was possessed. There is mental
54:55You can be mentally ill and not be and
54:57not be demonic, right? But you can have
55:00a demonization that kind of looks like
55:02mental illness, right? And in this case,
55:04I think he had a demonized mom and the
55:07story was pretty crazy, but my point is
55:09that um
55:11psychologists, when they look at
55:12something like that, they're not willing
55:14to even entertain the possibility of the
55:15demonic.
55:16It only could be mental illness, right?
55:19That's that humanistic view of
55:21demonology that there's just no way.
55:23It's all a figment of our imagination.
55:25There's always some sort of rational
55:27underlying scientific explanation for
55:29it. Um
55:31you know,
55:32well, yeah, you guys get what I'm
55:34saying. So then you get to the um
55:37you get to the animistic view, which is
55:40that um
55:41you know, the subject of demonology has
55:43to be treated from the perspective of
55:46like these abstract spirits in nature
55:49and the disembodied spirits of the dead,
55:52ghosts. That everything that we start to
55:54look at from a demonology perspective is
55:57either
56:00natural some sort of like
56:02natural phenomena. When I say natural, I
56:05mean like a
56:06arbitrary spirit in nature that has no
56:08like nobody can account for on where it
56:10comes from, but we just like river
56:12spirits and and wooded spirits and, you
56:15know, the the those types of things like
56:17uh that the Indians were into. Like
56:19they're called elementals. Like the
56:21Yeah, the elementals, that kind of
56:23thing. Like you can all of a sudden just
56:25kind of take
56:26an approach that only looks in the here
56:29and now, but with a supernatural mindset
56:32that completely disregards the reality
56:34that scripture paints of above and
56:36below, right? It's not just the earth.
56:38You get a lot of people that get steeped
56:39in that. That's the animistic view. We
56:41don't take the animistic view. Um
56:45And then you get into the astral view,
56:46which is the idea that that's on page
56:4814, that demons are fallen stars or
56:51celestial beings from the heavens.
56:53Um and that uh
56:57uh Well, let's just read his thing. The
56:59theory would account for demons under
57:00the
57:01the supposition that religion began with
57:03the worship of the heavenly bodies to
57:05which the primitive religions had
57:06attached
57:08the primitive religious minds attached
57:09personality.
57:11The most important of these bodies, such
57:12as the sun, the moon, the planets, were
57:15assigned the status of full-fledged
57:16deities. Lesser bodies, such as the
57:18innumerable fixed stars, were given the
57:20position of lesser deities. It's not
57:22known when planets were first recognized
57:24as distinct from fixed stars, but
57:26planetary worship and divination
57:28prevailed at a very early period in the
57:30Euphrates Valley. These are things like
57:32Zoroastrianism, Zoro- you know, things
57:35things of that nature.
57:37Um
57:38I guess you can probably lump like um
57:41uh you know, form different types of
57:43astrology, you know, they're not all the
57:46same thing. Kind of thinking of Middle
57:47Eastern astrology and stuff like that.
57:49>> Exactly. Which I don't really know where
57:52the power
57:53in divination and astrology is
57:55described, but it still is just kind of
57:57looking at the stars like it's some sort
57:58of supernatural, you know, a looking
58:01glass.
58:02Um [snorts]
58:04It says the astral hypothesis, for
58:05instance, thus theorizes on the subject
58:08of light and darkness, but without
58:09really accounting for the objective
58:11nature of good and evil. Just sort of
58:13like yin yang, right? You always have
58:15the good and the and the bad, the black
58:16and the white. Um
58:18it says
58:20darkness is looked upon less as a
58:21creation of the gods than as a an
58:23environment for monsters and evil
58:24spirits who are rendered incapable of
58:26perpetrating their wickedness apart from
58:27the gloom the gloom.
58:29Of the evil spirits that love night,
58:31seven particular demons abetted by uh
58:35uh abetted by certain of the great gods
58:37were thought to be responsible for the
58:38darkening of the moon by eclipse or
58:41storm and even for the disappearance of
58:44the lunar disc at the end of the month.
58:45So everything in the heavens was somehow
58:46governed by these celestial beings, you
58:48know, it's just I So even So some people
58:51will say the subject of demonology has
58:54to be approached This is kind of where
58:56it entered in, people's superstitious
58:58view of how they looked at the world,
59:01right? And and this is where they
59:03believe the origins of the demonic, you
59:05know, actually started in the minds of
59:07men. Um
59:09To this theory, mainly a product of
59:11Professor H. Winkler of Germany and
59:12enthusiastically expounded by other
59:15scholars, it may be replied that besides
59:18being completely at variance with
59:20revealed truth, it lacks historical
59:21corroboration. Uh the evidence of
59:24ancient inscriptions do not support it,
59:26so it's protagonist plant its roots deep
59:29in a purely imaginary age where evidence
59:31pro or con is ex hypothesi lacking.
59:35Moreover, it's destitute of scientific
59:37astronomical support. It is simply an
59:40elaborate and fine-spun figment of
59:41German rationalism.
59:44Okay, so then we get to the biblical
59:45view. This is our view.
59:46The one we take. In tracing the origin
59:49of evil supernaturalism, divine
59:50revelation is in sharp contrast to all
59:52naturalistic theories. All these other
59:54theories were naturalistic.
59:57In that it goes so far
59:59beyond them to original sources and
1:00:01ultimate realities. It expands horizons.
1:00:04It goes beyond the creation of man and
1:00:05the introduction of sin into the human
1:00:07race, beyond even the creation of the
1:00:09angelic orders and the entrance of sin
1:00:11into the moral universe to the
1:00:12unfathomable eternity
1:00:15when God alone existed in sole sublime
1:00:17majesty. It alone conducts one to the
1:00:20imminence of altitude ample for
1:00:22furnishing sufficient sweep and
1:00:24perspective to see and comprehend the
1:00:26origin and nature of evil in the world.
1:00:28So, this is
1:00:29as you guys understand that like when it
1:00:31comes to the origin of the demonic far
1:00:34beyond our original creation. It's so
1:00:37much more than our original creation.
1:00:39Yeah, exactly. And you can't explain it
1:00:40using creation in any capacity.
1:00:43Right? There's there's like
1:00:45not you from that naturalistic
1:00:46perspective divorcing it from the word
1:00:48of God. Um
1:00:54Well, yeah, there are things in Ezekiel.
1:00:56Michael Heiser talks about these.
1:00:59We'll skip that. I'm going to skip Yeah,
1:01:01I was thinking of that. Sin itself began
1:01:03in heaven with Lucifer son of the
1:01:05morning star or the morning. Yeah,
1:01:08you're right. Um
1:01:12Yeah, I actually kind of want to hear
1:01:13your view on that though. What? The
1:01:16The second paragraph of Sin itself began
1:01:19in heaven with Lucifer son of the
1:01:20morning, the highest and the most
1:01:21exalted of heaven's created beings who
1:01:23became Satan when he led his celestial
1:01:25revolt that spread to myriads of angelic
1:01:27beings. But Satan was not created evil.
1:01:30As Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer points out,
1:01:32revelation concerning this eminent being
1:01:34begins with his sinless career embracing
1:01:36the dateless period between the perfect
1:01:38creation of the heavens and the earth
1:01:40and the catastrophic judgment upon this
1:01:42planet, which is in all likelihood to be
1:01:44connected with his fall. One passage,
1:01:47Ezekiel 28:11-19, despite contention to
1:01:50the contrary, obviously transcends
1:01:52reference to the prince of Tyre or to
1:01:54Adam and Eve in Eden and embraces a
1:01:56splendid and detailed portrait of
1:01:58Satan's person in his primal sinless
1:02:00glory. That's honestly, I think that
1:02:02Ezekiel 28:11-19 does reference um
1:02:07this
1:02:08I do think the prince of Tyre is not a
1:02:10real prince.
1:02:12Or if if he was a real prince, there's a
1:02:13connection to
1:02:15um
1:02:16um
1:02:17Satan's place in
1:02:19prior to his fall, so to speak. There's
1:02:21more scholarship there than I have
1:02:23brains for. I do think that passage in
1:02:25Ezekiel is really interesting. Michael
1:02:26Heiser talks about it.
1:02:29Here's one of the reasons why I skipped
1:02:30over it because essentially what we're
1:02:31contemplating is the origin of evil
1:02:33itself. Nobody's figured it out because
1:02:35it goes back to the will, right? Adam
1:02:36was predisposed to being able to sin,
1:02:39being able to not to sin. But who had
1:02:41fallen prior to Adam and Eve falling?
1:02:45Right? Like this nakash in the garden is
1:02:47the one that's actually trying to incite
1:02:49a rebellion. He'd already fallen. We
1:02:51don't have anything else other than
1:02:52that, other than, you know, Satan
1:02:53falling from lightning. And this is
1:02:54where you get into the contentious stuff
1:02:56where you have to make up your own mind,
1:02:58you know, is this
1:03:00fall from heaven and taking a third of
1:03:02the angels with him, so to speak, is
1:03:04that what accounts for the demonic or
1:03:05the demonic actually angels?
1:03:07You know, angels take the angel and I I
1:03:10don't necessarily I don't necessarily
1:03:11think so.
1:03:12>> There's like there's this like weird
1:03:14part that I've always had of it, you
1:03:16know, when I
1:03:18when I read the passage in Ezekiel the
1:03:20first time. And I was like, okay, this
1:03:22is pre
1:03:24you know, the fall and all that. And
1:03:25then all this stuff. So
1:03:28This is a weird, you know, picture of
1:03:30imagery. Be like, you know
1:03:33think of Venom.
1:03:35You know, like how Venom in itself is
1:03:37like a symbiote, right? And
1:03:40but he needs a host. So, would you say
1:03:43before, you know, it does say sin itself
1:03:45began in heaven with Lucifer. So, would
1:03:48you say and then Lucifer later down
1:03:50attempts Adam and Eve, but then
1:03:53that evil always existed.
1:03:56Yeah, no.
1:03:57I think this is very I can say this with
1:03:59what I think is theological accuracy.
1:04:03Sinner sin has always originated in the
1:04:06heart. Right, yeah. The question is how.
1:04:09But I understand that, but then I I mean
1:04:12like evil.
1:04:14Because like I mean I don't I don't
1:04:17think I I I don't think evil itself is a
1:04:19thing
1:04:21that can be quantified. The only reason
1:04:23we know evil exists is because of the
1:04:24eternal good. Okay.
1:04:26>> Evil isn't an abstract concept that or
1:04:31it's not something corporeal that's kind
1:04:33of existed simultaneously. It's like
1:04:36it's it's it's more of something that
1:04:39originated It originates from mutable
1:04:42creatures.
1:04:44Think about this. God is sinless. Mhm.
1:04:46Unchangeable, immutable.
1:04:48There is no sin in God, neither does he
1:04:50create sin.
1:04:52Okay? He didn't make Adam sin.
1:04:54Um sin itself is something that came
1:04:57from the heart of Lucifer.
1:05:00Came from the heart of Adam and Eve.
1:05:03God is immutable, man is mutable. That's
1:05:05the only clue we have. That you can go
1:05:08from a state of perfection
1:05:10um
1:05:12not being God, okay? To a state of sin.
1:05:15Right. It's completely incompatible with
1:05:17God's nature. It's not incompatible with
1:05:19man's nature. But it doesn't mean that
1:05:21evil
1:05:22is this pre-existent thing that
1:05:25Adam didn't even Adam in his in his in
1:05:28his state of of knowledge,
1:05:30righteousness, and holiness didn't even
1:05:31know what evil was.
1:05:33>> Right, yeah. Until evil
1:05:35pours forth from his heart.
1:05:37>> Mhm. And then he recognized good and
1:05:40evil. Yeah. Right? You see what I'm
1:05:42saying?
1:05:42>> Yeah. But evil is that that but that
1:05:45that's where
1:05:46we get hung up is trying to figure out
1:05:48how it originates in the heart, in
1:05:50desire. We don't know. That's that's
1:05:53that black abyss that nobody's ever been
1:05:55able to figure out. This is what he's
1:05:57talking about. People want to go back to
1:05:58this origin of evil and they always go
1:06:01in the wrong direction because it's
1:06:02something that God's kept from us.
1:06:04It's something God has kept from us. It
1:06:07we will not solve it and understand how
1:06:10a heart can go from
1:06:12the ability to sin and the ability to
1:06:14not to sin to desiring to sin. Where did
1:06:17that come How? Because God makes it
1:06:19clear that it and I think in the I think
1:06:22it's um
1:06:24What passage is it? I don't know why I
1:06:25can't think of it off the top of my
1:06:26head. We have one clue in the Old
1:06:29Testament where the prophet is saying um
1:06:33don't don't turn your don't turn your
1:06:35face away from us and causing us to sin.
1:06:37It's this idea that when God removes his
1:06:40sustaining hand,
1:06:42the mutable heart will will
1:06:46can and from historic from from what we
1:06:49know of the history of man, can and does
1:06:51>> Mhm. move towards evil. God could have
1:06:53sustained Adam Mhm. and kept him from
1:06:56sin, right? But he didn't. God's the
1:06:58only one that can do that. And that
1:07:01that's the question. Where did the
1:07:02desire God didn't place the desire in
1:07:03his heart. Where did it come from? The
1:07:06only clue that we really have is this
1:07:07idea What were you going to say? Were
1:07:08you going to say something, Alex?
1:07:10I was just trying to
1:07:11sort of
1:07:13rationalize and put this on my
1:07:15still going off of like that idea of
1:07:18like, hey, make sure our
1:07:20like don't let your accountants be away
1:07:22from us because what proceeds from them
1:07:24is his glory, his majesty, his
1:07:26righteousness. Everything about his
1:07:27character before it proceeds out of
1:07:29them. It sustains us.
1:07:31>> And it sustains
1:07:32And he makes sure that
1:07:34like he ensures that we are sustained
1:07:36throughout our entire lives according to
1:07:38his will before the foundations of the
1:07:39world.
1:07:40Before the foundations or even the
1:07:42framework of it. And so
1:07:44I I
1:07:46I'm trying like I don't want to steep
1:07:48into heresies and thinking in this.
1:07:51But it is sort of like when you
1:07:54you just go even a slight bit away, it's
1:07:57like hot and cold essentially. What what
1:07:59proceeds from the Lord is his heat, his
1:08:01glory. And then the further you go away
1:08:04is just the absence of that because
1:08:05there's no such thing as cold itself.
1:08:07But when you have the absence of the
1:08:08Lord, you will have naturally sin. But
1:08:11you have to have a desire to move away
1:08:12from it. That's true. So, this that's
1:08:14the problem. That's the problem. I don't
1:08:16have the answer to this.
1:08:17>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not here going to drop
1:08:19some bombshell on you guys and solve the
1:08:21the problem of evil. I can solve the
1:08:22logical problem of evil. I can't solve
1:08:24the origin of evil. Not one person You
1:08:26guys Let me tell you something. This
1:08:29this one thing that you guys I was
1:08:30trying to skip over this. I was trying
1:08:32to skip over it and Barzel was like, I
1:08:33want to know your thoughts. And I'm
1:08:34like, oh, great. Cuz then I don't have
1:08:36an answer for it. I'm like trying to
1:08:37skip over
1:08:38this. So, my point is you you will get
1:08:41there there is not it does not we cannot
1:08:44understand it, okay? Because this is
1:08:47where the metaphysics of the
1:08:49metaphysical side of the human brain has
1:08:51been number one, it's never had the
1:08:53answer. But number two, our ignorance in
1:08:56the meta in metaphysics has prevented us
1:08:58from even being able Most people don't
1:09:00ever even grapple with the problem. They
1:09:02don't even know the problem's there,
1:09:03right? It's very easy to say
1:09:05Adam sinned and sin entered into the
1:09:07world. That's true.
1:09:08>> It's like, okay, that was from the
1:09:09serpent. But then what was it from the
1:09:11serpent? Well, no, it it wasn't even
1:09:12from the serpent. It's like it's like
1:09:14the the problem was This is the problem
1:09:16for us. It's less about the serpent.
1:09:18Yeah, but it's more about our own heart
1:09:20and our inclination to The inclination.
1:09:23We Adam represented us. Yeah. cares
1:09:25about the serpent? Okay? I We don't get
1:09:28anything else other than the fact the
1:09:29serpent's committing is committing act
1:09:31of rebellion, right? We don't nothing We
1:09:33don't know what he is. We don't know the
1:09:36history that he We don't know how long
1:09:37he was alive. We don't know anything
1:09:39about the history of what was going on
1:09:41there. Like why this thing's in there
1:09:43trying to create a rebellion other than
1:09:45the fact that obviously you have two
1:09:47mute you have three mutable creatures in
1:09:49the garden
1:09:50and one of them is inciting a rebellion,
1:09:53you know, and the other one there's
1:09:55clearly a desire for whatever reason Why
1:09:57Why did he fall? I don't know. I don't
1:09:59know anymore. But then in the process
1:10:01you have Eve that fell and then Adam
1:10:03failed to do his job. Adam should have
1:10:05said, "No, I'm not going to eat the
1:10:06apple.
1:10:07I am We're going to God right now. God,
1:10:11this woman ate the apple, right? Like
1:10:13she broke the law, right? She has
1:10:15transgressed trans trans transgressed
1:10:18the stipulations of this covenant that
1:10:20you made with us in the garden and
1:10:23I take responsibility for for her and
1:10:26what do you want me to do? I'll take her
1:10:27punishment. And we know this because the
1:10:29second Adam did what the first Adam
1:10:31should have done, right? Which was not
1:10:34not being to blame for sin, took
1:10:36responsibility, stepped up and died in
1:10:38our place. That's how we know what Adam
1:10:39should have done. Adam should have taken
1:10:41responsibility for his wife regardless
1:10:43of you know how the sin originated in
1:10:45the human heart. We're never going to
1:10:46understand that. But Adam's role was to
1:10:48be the the the first and righteous Adam
1:10:51and do what he should have been. Instead
1:10:52he says, "If you're going down, I'm
1:10:53going down with you."
1:10:56Okay? So he was like I
1:10:58That That's That's what happened. You're
1:10:59going down, I'm going down with you. I
1:11:01really think in in many respects it's
1:11:03like
1:11:04I don't know why Adam made that choice.
1:11:06Nobody does. Eve's desire came from sort
1:11:09of a different place. Adam's desire
1:11:11might have been more for his wife than
1:11:12it was for the Lord. I I don't We don't
1:11:14fully understand it. But welcome to the
1:11:16mystery that is the origin of evil. But
1:11:18no, evil is not a thing. It It It
1:11:21emanated from the human heart, but it's
1:11:23not like um Like an actual material
1:11:25tangible thing.
1:11:26>> There's nothing. Yeah, it's nothing like
1:11:27that. You You don't have this
1:11:30You don't have this hypostatic union of
1:11:32God in a timeless existence of
1:11:34perfection and then evil's kind of this
1:11:35ethereal thing out there. It's not It's
1:11:38not like that at all. And we know that
1:11:40we know that
1:11:43evil originated How did it originate?
1:11:45Don't know. But we know it originated in
1:11:48the mutable heart, a changeable heart.
1:11:51Okay?
1:11:52It's the only clue we have. That's as
1:11:53far as we can go with it.
1:11:55A man can go from a state of knowledge,
1:11:57righteousness, and holiness to a state
1:11:58of sin.
1:11:59And the the the devil did the same
1:12:02thing.
1:12:03He went from a a place of, you know,
1:12:05eminence. But this is another thing,
1:12:07too. The devil wasn't made in the image
1:12:09of God.
1:12:10He's not made in the image of God. He
1:12:12doesn't share the image of God. Man is
1:12:13made in the image of God. They don't get
1:12:15redemption. This is part of the
1:12:17beautiful part of the story. Did Jesus
1:12:19come and die to save the the the fallen
1:12:22order of supernatural things? No. He
1:12:25came and no hope. There's no hope for
1:12:27them. Imagine the jealousy and the
1:12:29misery. If we're going to talk about
1:12:30demonology, imagine the misery that is
1:12:33those that see
1:12:34a race of beings that also committed sin
1:12:39but are redeemed.
1:12:41How mad would that make you? One without
1:12:43hope when we Why do you think they hate
1:12:44you so much? Right? And I In the angelic
1:12:47world the scriptures say long to look
1:12:49into these matters. They don't
1:12:50understand it. The The The angels in
1:12:53heaven don't understand. They're like
1:12:55Imagine trying to fathom God coming down
1:12:57in the flesh and dying for sinful
1:12:59creatures. You know, they've got much
1:13:01more of the big picture in having seen
1:13:02history in its entirety. We we're When
1:13:05we study the subject of demonology,
1:13:07we're studying the subject of something
1:13:08that hates everything about us and hates
1:13:10God. Hopeless. We actually have hope.
1:13:12We're sinful, too, but God gives us
1:13:14grace, right? Does that make sense?
1:13:16Yeah.
1:13:18Yeah. Sorry I couldn't answer your
1:13:19question.
1:13:20>> good.
1:13:21>> [laughter]
1:13:22>> I I just had this weird imagery of like,
1:13:24you know, um
1:13:26this this concept of evil being like
1:13:28this
1:13:29not theoretical but more tangible in
1:13:32terms of like, you know, how Venom is
1:13:34and then he binds with uh
1:13:37What was his name? Eddie, you know, and
1:13:40then Eddie becomes this and then like
1:13:43kind of kind of like this picture of
1:13:45Okay, that's Lucifer and then, you know,
1:13:47he he tempts Eve and then, you know,
1:13:51it transfers kind of I don't know.
1:13:53>> Yeah, I get I get it. It's It's a great
1:13:54thought, but it's yeah, not rooted in
1:13:57and and and I'm not making fun of it at
1:13:59all.
1:14:00Um but to get an accurate understanding
1:14:03of it, it's not something that attached
1:14:05to You know what I mean? It's Yeah, I
1:14:07understand. It's something that that
1:14:09it's came
1:14:10internal or because there's there's It
1:14:13origi- Sin originated in the human heart
1:14:15and the human heart alone. Yeah. How The
1:14:17question is how?
1:14:19How do you go from a state of being able
1:14:20to sin, being able to not to sin to
1:14:22desiring to sin? Yeah. And and and even
1:14:25know what sin is. That's That's
1:14:27That's even more terrifying. Well, I
1:14:29mean, what do you mean by that? Well, I
1:14:31mean, so
1:14:33not saying that
1:14:35we were like just naive, you know,
1:14:37mindless humans, but
1:14:39they wouldn't have actually known
1:14:41anything that would go against God
1:14:43because they're they're supposed to be
1:14:44in perfect communion with God until they
1:14:46have this But that was the purpose of
1:14:47that initial covenant. God established a
1:14:49covenant of works. It's also called the
1:14:51covenant of life. So they did. They only
1:14:53had one rule. Don't eat of the tree.
1:14:56Okay? So they knew that God required
1:14:58perfect obedience. And the promise that
1:15:00it was attached to perfect obedience was
1:15:02eternal life and all those things that
1:15:03were required for happiness. And then if
1:15:05you eat it, you'll surely die.
1:15:07Is it like in Hebrew like sin is like
1:15:09missing the mark or missing the Any want
1:15:11or any any any want or conformity or
1:15:14transgression of the law of God.
1:15:15>> Yeah, exactly. That's it. Yeah.
1:15:17So Any want or conformity to or
1:15:19transgression of the word of God or his
1:15:21commands.
1:15:23Yes. Yeah, but not not but they See,
1:15:26when God said, "If you eat of this
1:15:27fruit, you'll you'll you know, this is
1:15:29the tree of the knowledge of good and
1:15:30evil, right?" Then you So did they
1:15:33understand Did they have a complete
1:15:35comprehensive understanding of of good
1:15:38and evil? No, evil's only understood in
1:15:41the in in light of
1:15:43Evil's only understood in light of the
1:15:45existence of the good. They only knew
1:15:47good things. That's what I was trying to
1:15:49Yeah, they only knew good things. So
1:15:51when they when they knew good and evil
1:15:53at this point, it's because they lost
1:15:55the good. Now, that's the only That's
1:15:58the sad thing. They They The only way
1:16:00they actually understood the difference
1:16:01at this point is they had lost the good.
1:16:04It was now It was no longer attainable.
1:16:06It's not something that they had. So now
1:16:08all they have is evil, right? And that
1:16:10was That's what came in with obedi- God
1:16:12And that's the thing. People don't
1:16:13understand. Even our Westminster
1:16:14Confession's longer and shorter, our
1:16:16catechisms and stuff, it's this um
1:16:18um You guys should go read the shorter
1:16:20catechism on these subjects cuz they'll
1:16:22they'll they'll spell it out, you know,
1:16:23in detail. But that was the whole point.
1:16:25God made a covenant
1:16:27uh of of life with them that required
1:16:29perfect obedience.
1:16:31Um you know, it talks about the state
1:16:32the man was created in and what happened
1:16:35as a result of the fall. Man entered
1:16:37into a period of sin and misery, you
1:16:39know, and was subject now to death.
1:16:42But even that promise like comes with
1:16:44like we see the mediatorial work of
1:16:45Christ because it was death was
1:16:47promised. And the day they sinned, they
1:16:49still didn't die. Death entered in. They
1:16:51were going to die. They should have died
1:16:52right then. Yeah. They should have died
1:16:54right then. But what did God do? He
1:16:55exercised grace and he showed mercy and
1:16:57he covered them, right? He clothed them
1:16:59with the Now we have the We have the
1:17:00first death that entered in. We have an
1:17:02animal that had to have been
1:17:04killed, you know, the skins were given
1:17:07to Adam to cover him, right? And you
1:17:09still see Jesus exercising his authority
1:17:12as the mediator, right? And that is
1:17:14still, you know, And this is why Christ
1:17:17had to come. God's Every single man is
1:17:19born under the same covenant that Adam
1:17:21and Eve were were were given.
1:17:23Every man is born into the covenant of
1:17:25works. Only those that have been called
1:17:26by God to salvation participate in the
1:17:28covenant of grace. But this is what
1:17:30separates This is what makes Christ so
1:17:32interesting. Christ came and was it was
1:17:35subject to the covenant of works. God
1:17:37required perfect obedience. Jesus was
1:17:40perfectly obedient to that initial
1:17:42covenant. That's what made him that he
1:17:44had to be as the second Adam. The second
1:17:47Adam had to fulfill all of the perfect
1:17:51obedience that was required uh and to to
1:17:54to satisfy
1:17:56the covenant that was made with mankind.
1:17:58So that's why Jesus had to have two
1:18:00natures. He had to have a divine nature
1:18:01and a human nature, right? His divine
1:18:03You can't have a You can't have a
1:18:05mediator with just one, right? Like
1:18:07Jesus was the perfect He was a mediator.
1:18:09He was both God, truly God, truly man.
1:18:13Uh he had um So now he's the second
1:18:15person of the Trinity. Trying to That's
1:18:17what I'm saying when I when we argue
1:18:18about Trinitarian doctrine and they're
1:18:19like, "You mean God's like three persons
1:18:21in one person?" Or like three in essence
1:18:23in one in No, he's three persons in one
1:18:25essence. And then they get all bogged
1:18:26down with this and it's like, "Fine, I
1:18:27get it. It's a mystery. It's confusing."
1:18:29But then you try Well, the second person
1:18:31of the Trinity has two natures.
1:18:32>> [laughter]
1:18:34>> You know, it's like that then they're
1:18:35like, "What? Like what do you Yeah, so
1:18:38try explaining that all the time,
1:18:39right?" But
1:18:41It was absolutely imperative. So Jesus
1:18:42fulfilled the stipulations of the
1:18:44covenant that Adam failed. And in that,
1:18:47right? What is culminating in his death
1:18:49on the cross, what happened? He then
1:18:52purchased
1:18:53all of those that God had called to
1:18:55salvation in the same way that all fell
1:18:58in Adam,
1:18:59Christ is giving all those giving life
1:19:02to all those that are in him. So Christ
1:19:04is now our Adam,
1:19:06right? Like we We got a sinful nature
1:19:09from our uh
1:19:11from our
1:19:12uh
1:19:13earthly father, so to speak, and we get
1:19:17uh a renewed nature through our heavenly
1:19:20father and our second Adam. but he's
1:19:22also he's also a man, right?
1:19:25>> know which Puritan said this. It's like
1:19:26you're either in the first under first
1:19:29Adam's headship or under Christ's
1:19:31headship. Exactly. That's 100% true. Um
1:19:34and this is why Jesus um he he did not
1:19:38inherit So the question is how did Jesus
1:19:40not inherit sin if he truly had the
1:19:42nature of a man like all other men? It's
1:19:43cuz he didn't have an earthly father.
1:19:45Yeah. He didn't come from the literal
1:19:47seed of Adam.
1:19:48>> He He got his He got his He He got his
1:19:51um His father was a heavenly father. He
1:19:54was conceived by the Holy Spirit, but he
1:19:55received his humanity through his
1:19:56mother.
1:19:57So he was every bit a man, but his
1:20:00humanity came by way of Mary and his his
1:20:04his
1:20:05Divinity always
1:20:06>> His divinity always existed. You know,
1:20:09he didn't get it like he didn't all of a
1:20:10sudden wake up and get divinity. But But
1:20:12he didn't receive the sin nature through
1:20:15Adam.
1:20:16Adam's not his father.
1:20:18Right? Isn't that cool? That was it. So
1:20:20very cool to think about. It really is.
1:20:22You could spend the rest of your life
1:20:23studying the details and complexities of
1:20:25Christ, but it like man can't write that
1:20:28story.
1:20:29You can't write that story, dude. You
1:20:32see what I'm saying? So
1:20:33>> gosh. Like even when you look at the
1:20:34statistics, it's still
1:20:36I mean just extremely astronomical.
1:20:39Like just the pure chance of Christ
1:20:43doing the things that he did and it's
1:20:44like okay, well somebody randomly could
1:20:46do this. Like no, that's not possible.
1:20:48Like
1:20:49um over What was it like 300
1:20:52uh 53 different prophecies or like over
1:20:55350 and there are people running the the
1:20:57numbers on it and it's like yeah, no.
1:20:59This had to be the intervention of God
1:21:01because you can't just get down to this
1:21:03this minute point. It was so perfect
1:21:06in the way everything was executed.
1:21:08Perfectly timed. Perfectly um Yeah. But
1:21:11um Everything. And in my that that uh
1:21:16Bible as literature class, you know,
1:21:18it's so fascinating when I'm just
1:21:21even from an academic point of view, you
1:21:23know, you
1:21:24I don't know if that if that professor
1:21:26is a Christian or whatever, you know,
1:21:29but even from an academic point of view
1:21:31when I'm just studying
1:21:32the Bible as literature, it still, you
1:21:35know, just blows my mind.
1:21:38Like wow.
1:21:39>> [laughter]
1:21:40>> But Yeah.
1:21:41>> Yeah, but never forget that
1:21:43a covenant was firmly established. There
1:21:45has to be for
1:21:46perfect obedience to be required.
1:21:48God had to give a law.
1:21:50And it was the
1:21:53the
1:21:54There's something that had to be
1:21:56followed in that covenant. They had an
1:21:58end of the covenant they were to fulfill
1:22:00and God would fulfill his end, right?
1:22:02And they may not have understood the
1:22:04consequences, but the
1:22:08they still understood the concept of
1:22:09obedience and they decided to be
1:22:10disobedient. That's the problem. And
1:22:12before and and just to re- You guys
1:22:13probably already know this, but um the
1:22:15natural question arises how's that fair
1:22:17for us?
1:22:18I deal with it all the time. You know,
1:22:20Adam sinned, but I you know, now I'm
1:22:22born a sinner. And we just have to
1:22:24remember this casually 30,000 ft
1:22:26worldview or 30,000 ft view of the
1:22:28situation. God chose Adam to be our
1:22:31representative. He was the perfect
1:22:33representative. We would not have done
1:22:35it any differently. It's not unfair. Um
1:22:38God It's not like when we elect a
1:22:39president we say, "Well, that's your
1:22:41president, not my president. I didn't
1:22:43vote for him." We didn't have to vote
1:22:44for him. God chose him for us and he
1:22:45chose flawlessly. He represented each
1:22:48and every one of us and because God had
1:22:49already outlined every single person
1:22:51that would be born, our births were
1:22:54already established before the
1:22:55foundations of the earth that they would
1:22:57come to pass
1:22:59providentially and in mind each and
1:23:01every one of us sinned in Adam.
1:23:05Does that make sense?
1:23:06Because he represented us.
1:23:08He goes into it in that book called
1:23:10Reasons to Believe, I think. Yeah,
1:23:12you're right. Absolutely right.
1:23:13>> Yeah, I read that one. It's a really
1:23:14good one. Um
1:23:16Uh we'll speed it up here.
1:23:19Uh
1:23:20Skip this part.
1:23:22Yeah, I mean pretty much this is just
1:23:23making a case and and we've already made
1:23:24the the gist of it why the Bible
1:23:27priority Yeah, we'll just read this last
1:23:29bit. Biblical demonology then as it
1:23:30exists in its elemental though essential
1:23:32form in the earlier chapters of Genesis
1:23:35is the ultimate source and basis of all
1:23:37demonology, ethnic later biblical,
1:23:39Jewish, and Christian. We're on page 20
1:23:41now.
1:23:42You see it? Genesis is the book of
1:23:45beginnings, catalogs the beginning of
1:23:46the earth and the human race the
1:23:48beginning of human sin and death and the
1:23:50beginning of human government language.
1:23:51It also suggests the origin of demons,
1:23:54but inasmuch as demons are certainly to
1:23:55be traced back to the fall of Satan and
1:23:58the angels, which the book of Genesis
1:23:59assumes as background material in the
1:24:01same way it assumes the existence of God
1:24:03in background material in Genesis 1:1.
1:24:05It cannot validly be charged that there
1:24:07are no demons in the opening book of the
1:24:08Bible. In any event or upon any possible
1:24:12inference based on revealed facts, they
1:24:14are there whether as fallen angels or as
1:24:16disembodied spirits of a pre- Adamic
1:24:19race which we didn't get into and we
1:24:21don't believe or as a result of the
1:24:23cohabitation of angelic beings with
1:24:24antediluvian women in Genesis 6. In the
1:24:27book of Genesis, the author assumes the
1:24:29existence of demons just as plainly as
1:24:31he assumes the existence of God or the
1:24:33fall of Satan and his angels.
1:24:36It's all in the scripture. We don't go
1:24:37anywhere else for it.
1:24:38Cuz the Bible explains
1:24:41every It gives us everything we need to
1:24:42know to understand that they exist.
1:24:44And this would be so hard without sola
1:24:47scriptura, honestly. Yeah, well, you
1:24:49just look at all the nonsense that comes
1:24:51out of the other cultures that don't use
1:24:52the scripture
1:24:53and try to understand it, you know?
1:24:56That's how I understand from that just
1:24:57hearing naturalistic view.
1:24:59I don't know. I think Reformed Pillow
1:25:01Guy, that Joshua Hames, I think his name
1:25:03is. Yeah, Joshua Hames. Uh I think he
1:25:06did like this um
1:25:08He was like, you know, those reaction
1:25:09videos that he makes?
1:25:11He was making this reaction video of
1:25:12this Eastern Orthodox father who um
1:25:16like he's sitting this this father he's
1:25:19sitting he's giving an interview and out
1:25:21of nowhere he he hears voices.
1:25:24And then I I think I know what you're
1:25:25talking about. He was like hearing
1:25:26knocking. Yeah, yeah, something like
1:25:28that. And then he's like, "Oh, it's the
1:25:30demons, you know, they they've come to
1:25:32torment us and all that stuff." And then
1:25:34he just goes out and starts rebuking
1:25:36like this building and stuff. I'm like
1:25:39really?
1:25:40>> [laughter]
1:25:41>> Like you're a you're a father. You claim
1:25:45to be this, you know, priestly I don't
1:25:48know this
1:25:49this authoritative figure in the church.
1:25:52And
1:25:53I don't know. This This is crazy. Well,
1:25:55you know, and that's the that's the type
1:25:57of supernaturalism that gets talked
1:25:59about. This is a really interesting book
1:26:01of Ghosts and Spirits Walking by Night
1:26:03by Ludwig Lavater. It's um It's a I
1:26:05can't remember when it was written.
1:26:061600s. What? I think I remember you
1:26:08telling us something like
1:26:10Oh, it was written in 2023.
1:26:12Uh 1596.
1:26:14This is actually a really good book and
1:26:16one thing I really liked about this book
1:26:18is in the time period
1:26:20it actually is I don't know. I haven't
1:26:22read the whole thing, but it has an
1:26:23entire chapter on spirits as judgment.
1:26:26It goes through every part in scripture
1:26:28where
1:26:29the
1:26:29you know, demonic spirits or spirits in
1:26:31general used as a form of judgment on
1:26:34people and I
1:26:37I It's so true cuz all of the
1:26:38experiences I've had and kind of walking
1:26:40away from it. I There's nothing I'm not
1:26:42willing to deal with. There's not a
1:26:44demon There's nothing demonic on the
1:26:46earth that I'm not willing to deal with
1:26:48if I have to. But I got so tired of
1:26:50dealing with lost people with demons.
1:26:54What are you What are you going to do?
1:26:56Yeah. You know, and it's like if God's
1:26:58not working on them, what am I I'm just
1:27:00making it worse for them.
1:27:02Um but
1:27:03I hope it's not boring. That's
1:27:05You kind of see why we're going slow
1:27:08laying the foundation because it's like
1:27:10it's it it sets the foundation. Later on
1:27:12we'll go into what the scriptures say
1:27:13about spirits of demon They're different
1:27:15This is the thing This is the thing that
1:27:17like is interesting to me.
1:27:19Um
1:27:21There seems to be a massive difference
1:27:24in like a like type like types of
1:27:27demonic spirits.
1:27:29It just doesn't make sense to me that
1:27:30you have this
1:27:32universal class of angel
1:27:35who anytime we see angels have a
1:27:37completely different
1:27:40demeanor.
1:27:42You've got You've got like
1:27:45distinctions in scripture from certain
1:27:47classes of spiritual beings that are
1:27:48referred to differently
1:27:50than they do the demonic. The demonic
1:27:52seems to act differently. Um I just
1:27:57having seen so much in person, I have a
1:27:59very difficult time just lumping it all
1:28:01into this or just they're just fallen
1:28:04angels. Like I don't think the case in
1:28:06scripture is that they're just fallen.
1:28:07We don't know exactly what they are, but
1:28:08I
1:28:09I think that uh
1:28:11uh I think the reality is probably more
1:28:13complicated than that, honestly.
1:28:17So
1:28:18Wasn't like the there were like two
1:28:21views that I remember. It was like the
1:28:23Okay, they're fallen angels and the
1:28:25second one was like, "Okay, now
1:28:27they're the the spirits of the Nephilim
1:28:30like you said. And then, you know, they
1:28:34I don't know. I heard this from that guy
1:28:36that the video I sent you, the Mr.
1:28:38Mythos.
1:28:39He goes into like those I think I think
1:28:41there were like two or three theories
1:28:43that he talks about in the demonology
1:28:45one. The the basic Here's the basics of
1:28:47what I believe.
1:28:48I think that you had sons of God who
1:28:51rebelled. I don't know. Even after the
1:28:53nakash in the garden and all this the
1:28:55serpent thing in the garden you still
1:28:57had these sons of God, bene Elohim,
1:29:00which are referred to completely
1:29:01different than the word demon that came
1:29:03down and took the form of men
1:29:07had sex with women and had giant babies.
1:29:10Like they turned into giants, right? In
1:29:12all the Old Testament it's like giants
1:29:14this, giants in the land that. It's like
1:29:16it's not allegory, right? You have a
1:29:19spies who saw the land and they had
1:29:20Yeah. part of there were giants So, in
1:29:23Jude, you have you have this this these
1:29:26ideas in scripture
1:29:28of
1:29:29these
1:29:30sons of God being
1:29:32entombed and imprisoned beneath the
1:29:34Euphrates and the in stuff. And it's
1:29:37like, but that's clearly not all the
1:29:38demonic, you know? So, like
1:29:41there's just multiple layers to this. It
1:29:44makes more sense to me
1:29:45that you have
1:29:47Like God has ophanim and cherubim and
1:29:49seraphim. And when you look at the
1:29:51descriptions of them in the Hebrew,
1:29:53they're all reptilian in nature, right?
1:29:55When you dig into this Like God like the
1:29:57seraphim that cry holy, holy, holy, holy
1:30:00is the Lord our God almighty, that word,
1:30:02from what I understand, I could be
1:30:03wrong, breaks down to like flying
1:30:05flaming serpents. Even Moses in the
1:30:07desert, what did God assault them with?
1:30:09Like these flying serpents. They weren't
1:30:10seraphim. I don't remember what the word
1:30:12was used for them. But it's like there's
1:30:14a there's like a serpentine quality to
1:30:16the stuff that God made because even in
1:30:18the kash, which in the Hebrew could mean
1:30:20shining, deceitful, or
1:30:24um
1:30:25What is it? Oh, it
1:30:26and snake-like. Yeah. And in Hebrew,
1:30:30that word could mean one of those things
1:30:32or all of those things. And the fact
1:30:35that the Bible takes makes him a serpent
1:30:37definitely and he's deceitful. I don't
1:30:39know if he was bright and shining, but
1:30:41there was definitely a serpentine
1:30:42quality to him. You have this over
1:30:46Yeah. Um how
1:30:49Like I think that he wasn't surprised
1:30:52like oh hey, you're going to talking
1:30:53serpent. Like because
1:30:56I was what or I was listening to this
1:30:58episode of how to cause a listener they
1:30:59sort of delved into that how like the
1:31:01serpent could have been you know, of
1:31:03this serpentine as quality and they're
1:31:05you know, it was normal for them To
1:31:06real. to actually speak. And it was
1:31:08normal for them to worship the Lord.
1:31:10And so that's why Eve wasn't surprised
1:31:13by another one of these kash, the
1:31:15serpent actually speaking and then you
1:31:17know, thus
1:31:18being tempted.
1:31:20Well, in my in my point is that you
1:31:22know, even in modern conspiracy theory,
1:31:25you talk about world powers and stuff.
1:31:26You got this whole race of lizard people
1:31:29that people talk about all the time.
1:31:30It's just funny to me. I don't think
1:31:31that there's a race of lizard people,
1:31:33but like like not in the conspiracy
1:31:35sense, but like when you look at like
1:31:38the history of the incursion of evil in
1:31:41the world, it always has a serpent-like
1:31:43quality to it, which is just funny. It's
1:31:44just weird to me, right? Like And um
1:31:49I'm not the lizard person guy. I'm not
1:31:50the David Icke guy. All right, like the
1:31:52queen's a lizard, right? Like I'm not
1:31:54I'm not saying that, dude. I'm just I'm
1:31:56just saying it's weird to me in these
1:31:57demonic realms that even even the
1:31:59qualities
1:32:01that are attached to the elitists in the
1:32:03conspiracy circles always end up being
1:32:07It's just cold-blooded lizards. Lizards.
1:32:09Yeah, it's funny. Serpent-like, right?
1:32:11You know what I mean? Like it's just
1:32:12it's just really weird. And um
1:32:15I think probably what you have is you
1:32:16have you you've got different classes of
1:32:19of God's creation which vary from each
1:32:21other. You didn't have this giant just
1:32:23like this one homogeneous unisex class
1:32:26of of Elohim, right? Angel.
1:32:30And
1:32:32it's more complicated than that, you
1:32:33know? Like when God shows us stuff, you
1:32:35got stuff with four faces and six wings
1:32:37and you stuff that's serpent-like.
1:32:39Like something covered in eyes that's
1:32:40coming like you know,
1:32:43rotating It's weird, dude. Like I don't
1:32:45know what God made some weird stuff,
1:32:47dude, right? And so what I'm saying is I
1:32:50think that the the best that I can tell
1:32:52from scripture that makes the most sense
1:32:53to me is whatever these sons of God are,
1:32:56they had they rebelled as well for
1:33:00whatever reason, took women. And I think
1:33:03that they're I think that I think the
1:33:05giants really might account for
1:33:08the modern demonic spirit that we talk
1:33:10about. And that they're the disembodied
1:33:13spirits that have now fallen. Like I
1:33:15I think that that's honestly probably
1:33:16legit, but it's very controversial. But
1:33:18I don't know where else To me, you don't
1:33:20really find a place in scripture that
1:33:21just
1:33:22spells out that they're just fallen
1:33:24angels, you know? Cuz even it doesn't
1:33:26make sense to me. And it it's not it's
1:33:28not revealed in scripture. And when you
1:33:30see angels show up in places, they
1:33:32always take the body of men. They're
1:33:34always coming They always act very
1:33:36differently. They have more abilities.
1:33:38The demonic doesn't really have a lot of
1:33:40abilities. I mean, they're a disembodied
1:33:42spirit of some sort.
1:33:43Rooms get cold, right? Things can move
1:33:46around.
1:33:48Every now and then you hear something
1:33:49audible, but they seem to have a
1:33:50difficult time interacting with the real
1:33:53world. Some are better than others at
1:33:55it, but stories of lights coming on and
1:33:57off or pictures flipping upside down or
1:33:59something cabinets opening up in a room.
1:34:02You know, not everything
1:34:04Sometimes you're dealing with the
1:34:05demonic and nothing's moving around. If
1:34:07it could, it would throw everything off
1:34:09of every wall. You know, it just can't.
1:34:11I have a hard time believing that just
1:34:12fallen angels account for what we deal.
1:34:14I think demonic the demonic spirits that
1:34:16we're talking about are probably the
1:34:17lowest class of spiritual creatures
1:34:19that roam the earth in misery. They take
1:34:21over the pigs, you know, that kind of
1:34:23thing. Also, one more thing that I
1:34:24realized is like even contextually, if
1:34:27you think about it, like you don't have
1:34:29any demonic encounters until after
1:34:32Genesis 6, right? And then also like
1:34:36since you mentioned pigs in Mark 5, like
1:34:39that area was Gentile owned because no
1:34:43in no way possible would Jews be having
1:34:47pigs on their land.
1:34:49>> Exactly. You know? And still to this
1:34:51day, your most heavily demonized areas
1:34:53are your most unreached. Exactly.
1:34:55>> Places like Haiti, parts of Africa,
1:34:57steeped in supernaturalism.
1:34:59But
1:35:01as you'll see, and one of the reasons
1:35:02why I make this case is he actually he
1:35:04makes a case for
1:35:06the different words used in scripture on
1:35:08the different types, like the identity
1:35:09demons, like the knowing ones, the
1:35:12ones that tend to wander, you know,
1:35:15vacant places, that kind of thing. It's
1:35:17like you deal with somebody that claims
1:35:19to have a poltergeist in their house
1:35:20that's like throwing stuff around and
1:35:22you know, pinning a kid to a wall or you
1:35:24know, something like that. You never
1:35:26heard these stories?
1:35:28Or is it just me?
1:35:29Uh no, I've
1:35:31What was I thinking of? But it's very
1:35:33different than the types of experiences
1:35:35people have like ghost hunting in a in a
1:35:37warehouse, you know? It's like it's just
1:35:38it's just all over the place. And
1:35:41they're picking up EVPs and stuff. Like
1:35:43what are they What are they getting?
1:35:44What are they hearing? You know? You
1:35:45know, they're like You know what I'm
1:35:46talking about with the EVP?
1:35:48You know, dude
1:35:49It's very Well, it's very I mean, dude,
1:35:52people are picking up I mean,
1:35:54very heretical stuff,
1:35:56very opposed to scripture, hostile in
1:35:58the name of Jesus.
1:36:00And then you deal with the DMT stuff
1:36:02today in modern psychotropics and
1:36:03psychedelics, you know? And I What are
1:36:06people dealing with? It's
1:36:07It's all over the spectrum and not one
1:36:09of it Nobody ever comes back with any
1:36:11semblance of biblical truth. Not one
1:36:13time. They say it was like always on the
1:36:16contrary to Christ or they try to make
1:36:18Christ out to be something similar to
1:36:21you know, the realm of like oh Hades,
1:36:23like DMT elves or something like that.
1:36:26They always try to make like like
1:36:29Christ is more of an abstract concept,
1:36:32right? Not so much a personal
1:36:34not so much a person, right? Or
1:36:37they try to steer away from the almost
1:36:39like
1:36:41sometimes in these DMT
1:36:43DMT trip trips,
1:36:45they try to make Christ sound like it's
1:36:47just like antiquated wisdom where
1:36:50there's like some truth in it, but it's
1:36:51not what you think it is.
1:36:52>> Basically agnostics. He's not really
1:36:54God, you know, that kind of thing, huh?
1:36:55Basically agnostics in a way. Yeah,
1:36:58except well, agnostics are like those
1:37:00that say, well, God could exist, but
1:37:02until he reveals himself to me, I'm not
1:37:04going to Have you heard of Sufism? Yeah,
1:37:07the Sufis, yeah. Yeah. What do you think
1:37:09about that? Well,
1:37:11I isn't I thought Sufis I thought it was
1:37:13like just a bunch of weird mystics in
1:37:14the desert. Are they Well, so what I've
1:37:17heard of Sufis is because we have a lot
1:37:20of Sufi music in Pakistan, like a lot.
1:37:25If you if you search up Qawwali and all
1:37:28that stuff, we literally have genres
1:37:31that are steeped in Sufism. Okay. And
1:37:34Pakistan is one of the countries that
1:37:36like, you know, has a lot of that. And
1:37:39they tie it to
1:37:41um
1:37:43Islam,
1:37:44but at the same time it's not exactly,
1:37:47you know, like those
1:37:49They just do not parallel in a way.
1:37:52Yeah, I don't know much about Sufis.
1:37:53Does Does their music sound like Does
1:37:55their music sound like this, Homer? Sufi
1:37:57Sufis.
1:37:59Oh man, we got to listen to this.
1:38:02We got to listen to Tony Robbins tell us
1:38:03how to think. What?
1:38:05I was like listening to him say so.
1:38:08sections on Islam like the Sunnis,
1:38:11Salafis, Shias. Yeah. Yeah. I thought
1:38:15No, but that's that's like a sect. Yeah.
1:38:18That's like Sufi Muslims.
1:38:22But then you have like this whole idea
1:38:24of Sufism. Oh, it's like a separate It's
1:38:27It's yeah, but then it's like it's Sound
1:38:29like this?
1:38:31Little, yeah. I'll be driving like 7:00
1:38:34in the morning
1:38:36Hold on, wait for it. Wait for it.
1:38:42Dude, so tell them like write the paper,
1:38:43you know, just hear funk music in my
1:38:45office just like blaring off my
1:38:46speakers.
1:38:47Cuz this is like drowns everything out.
1:38:50So good, dude. So
1:38:53My it's not that nothing like that. But
1:38:56[laughter] I'm going to check. But um
1:38:58Alex is
1:38:59quite right. It is like, you know, they
1:39:01they kind they they try to parallel it
1:39:04with like Islam, but search up fana al
1:39:08uh
1:39:09I think it's called fana al Allah.
1:39:12search that up. Start spelling it. F A N
1:39:15N A
1:39:16>> [laughter]
1:39:17>> F A N N A al
1:39:20space Oh.
1:39:22A L
1:39:23Oh, there it is. Fana al-Fana al-Allah.
1:39:24Yeah, that's it.
1:39:25>> Oh, wait.
1:39:26Fana al-Fana al-Allah
1:39:28Yeah, so these are these Yeah, so these
1:39:30guys, they're Sufi and they do like, you
1:39:33know, Pakistani Qawwali and stuff like
1:39:35that.
1:39:36But
1:39:38Wait, let me see y'all. What's going on?
1:39:40He read the paper just now.
1:39:43Dude, they have like Oh, yeah, he is
1:39:44gone.
1:39:45Here we go.
1:39:50Is that an accordion?
1:39:53That's harmonium.
1:39:54Like So like that.
1:39:56Okay, now this is good. At first, it
1:39:58sounded like next to You got to dance to
1:40:00that, bro. Right letter stick. I'll send
1:40:03you some more Pakistani music like this.
1:40:04>> This is like the desert Mario music.
1:40:08>> [laughter]
1:40:13>> Jams and me, Raphaim, you know, all
1:40:16these different classes and I mean, this
1:40:17dude, it's like
1:40:19the Neqash, right? It's It's like
1:40:22There's There's really not one thing in
1:40:24scripture that tells us exactly
1:40:27how many of these different classes of
1:40:30creatures have been created
1:40:32and for what purpose. Most people have
1:40:34like a sort of cultural viewpoint that
1:40:36it's like humans, like God, angels,
1:40:39fallen angels.
1:40:41That's not what the scripture presents
1:40:42at all.
1:40:43We Honestly, he just has not given us
1:40:45access to like look at the pantheon
1:40:49of
1:40:50heavenly creatures, like what he's made.
1:40:52We don't understand the politics of the
1:40:54kingdom of heaven like that. And we're
1:40:57pretty much relegated everything in the
1:40:58here and now and the only thing we have
1:41:00to glean from is what like
1:41:02crosses over at times, but it doesn't
1:41:05give us a picture of the whole.
1:41:06And um
1:41:08we get enough, you know, for all of
1:41:11God's, you know, all of God's purposes,
1:41:13but we have to be humble. And I just
1:41:16don't think a lot of scholars are very
1:41:17humble in respect to demonology where
1:41:21they just so casually create this like
1:41:24blanket idea
1:41:25to sum up It'd be like saying like
1:41:29America's got a president and some
1:41:31congressmen
1:41:32and some senators.
1:41:35The federal government is like so much
1:41:36more complicated than that.
1:41:38Right? Like millions of employees and
1:41:42departments and categories and like I
1:41:43don't I don't know. And then you you run
1:41:45into these cryptic things like
1:41:48in Psalm 82 or Psalm 81 or 82 or
1:41:51whatever. It's like the
1:41:53divine council, you know, and then God
1:41:55in Psalm 83 is like convening with the
1:41:57divine council, you know, it's like and
1:41:59then he said and then the judgment is
1:42:01that um
1:42:03these Elohim [snorts] will die like men.
1:42:05Well, that's weird to tell men they're
1:42:06going to die like men. We all know that,
1:42:07you know. Um I I'm just There's more
1:42:10there we'll get into as we go on. It's a
1:42:11lot more complicated, but um yeah, I I I
1:42:15really think and I think Ryan's in the
1:42:16same mind, but it come it comes up every
1:42:19now and then like it's not something
1:42:21that I would teach at church cuz we've
1:42:23got a lot of guys in Vanguard that taken
1:42:25old like a really old school kind of
1:42:27like mainstream
1:42:29approach that's like, you know,
1:42:32I was talking to a guy at church the
1:42:34other day.
1:42:35He doesn't think the spirit of Samuel
1:42:37actually showed up at the witch of
1:42:38Endor. He doesn't think it was a He
1:42:40doesn't think it was Samuel at all. Um
1:42:42do you know what I'm talking about?
1:42:44It's Saul Saul's story. What?
1:42:47>> That is crazy. Yeah, and then it was
1:42:49like and then like he doesn't think that
1:42:51the Nephilim thing is coherent at all
1:42:52because nobody in church history taught
1:42:54it. I was like, "That's not true." And I
1:42:56just don't get like it's not worth
1:42:57fighting about, you know what I mean?
1:42:59Like um
1:43:00And everybody just gets weird about it
1:43:03and it's it's important, but it's not a
1:43:05primary issue and it's not something you
1:43:08can Sometimes like if I if I I I have
1:43:10too many opinions about this to like
1:43:12just like
1:43:13dog like just take the like the the
1:43:16middle road so everybody cuz like you
1:43:18don't actually answer anything. Anybody
1:43:19that teaches demonology without getting
1:43:21like the pre-Adamic race thing that
1:43:23they're going to bring up is it comes
1:43:24back to this translation of God
1:43:27you know,
1:43:29made the earth formless and void. Like
1:43:31the cuz it's tohu wa bohu. It reads the
1:43:34earth became formless and void.
1:43:37And and
1:43:39this Genesis 1:2
1:43:41Do you know what I'm talking about?
1:43:43Yeah, where where the earth was, you
1:43:45know, formless became void. Let me read
1:43:47it to you real quick.
1:43:52It's talking about like when the spirit
1:43:54of God hovered over over the
1:43:57Yeah, but it's it's right there in just
1:43:58So like in the ESV, it it translates it
1:44:01like So the translations are different.
1:44:03Let me get to you here real quick.
1:44:07So okay, in the beginning God created
1:44:09the heavens and the earth and the earth
1:44:11was without form and void, but that word
1:44:13tohu wa bohu there can also mean it
1:44:15became formless and void. So a lot of
1:44:17people say So they read it like this. In
1:44:20the beginning, God created the heavens
1:44:22and the earth and the earth became
1:44:24formless and void. So these people saw
1:44:26like, "Oh, there's like They created
1:44:28this whole train of thought. There was
1:44:29something before." Like the earth
1:44:30existed before, but the history that we
1:44:33have is that at some point they So like
1:44:36okay.
1:44:37That there was a pre-Adamic pre-Adam
1:44:39race of humanity that God tried first
1:44:42that also fell and rebelled. God wiped
1:44:44them out, annihilated them. I know. I
1:44:46know. I'm glad you have a visceral
1:44:47reaction to it, you know. That sounds
1:44:48amazing. Like the problem with that is
1:44:50okay, that happened. Right, who's to say
1:44:53that didn't happen before and before and
1:44:54before and then you get caught in a
1:44:56whole time loop situation and that just
1:44:59undermines God's
1:44:59>> Well, and and the in the nature of the
1:45:01story is this. So we have an Adam that
1:45:03fell and Christ became the second Adam
1:45:05and he's the mediator.
1:45:07You tell me he made all these people in
1:45:08your image or maybe it was a race of
1:45:10people that weren't They Some of them
1:45:11will say maybe it's a race of of
1:45:13humanity wasn't made in the image of God
1:45:15or just something before us or whatever.
1:45:17I I don't know how they None of it It's
1:45:19just too far speculative and it doesn't
1:45:21make any sense cuz it's very clear Adam
1:45:23fell, Christ stepped in as mediator.
1:45:25You're not having this like I'm going to
1:45:26wipe them out and try it this way kind
1:45:28of situation, you know, it's not how God
1:45:30is doing things.
1:45:32And so this idea is that they lost their
1:45:34bodies and so now when God judged them,
1:45:38made the earth formless and void,
1:45:40started over, that now all of the It
1:45:43almost sounds like Scientology like
1:45:45Xenu's just dumping spirits in
1:45:47volcanoes.
1:45:48You know, it's like just dumping aliens
1:45:49in volcanoes and now we got Thetans
1:45:52running around everywhere that only Tom
1:45:54Cruise can save us from.
1:45:56>> [laughter]
1:45:57>> He's
1:45:57>> Right? Like You know what I mean? Like
1:45:58it's just it's just what But that But
1:46:00what I'm telling you is that was a huge
1:46:02theological debate for a while in these
1:46:04circles and that's why he brings it up.
1:46:06It was a big topic of discussion because
1:46:09remember the whole subject tonight was
1:46:11how do you even begin to approach the
1:46:12subject of demonology and the origin of
1:46:14evil because you're dealing with
1:46:15supernatural evil, you have to deal with
1:46:17the origin. So where does it originate?
1:46:19That's where the conversation starts and
1:46:20so some people look at it from a
1:46:22naturalist perspective like we concoct
1:46:24it or you know, the whole idea of
1:46:27demonology came out of the way we looked
1:46:29at the stars, the way we looked at the
1:46:30earth, the you know, the way we looked
1:46:32at the mind.
1:46:33>> [snorts]
1:46:33>> And you know, he's saying no, we got to
1:46:35go back to scripture and so when we look
1:46:36at scripture, then you start getting
1:46:38these weird things like um
1:46:40pre-Adamic race, disembodied spirits of
1:46:42the Nephilim, that kind of thing or just
1:46:44fallen angels, you know? And then you
1:46:46look to see what we have more clues in
1:46:48scripture of and we don't We just kicked
1:46:50that pre-Adamic thing out cuz it has too
1:46:52many holes and it doesn't make any
1:46:53sense. And honestly, I think
1:46:56the fallen angel thing doesn't make a
1:46:58lot of sense because
1:47:01from a language standpoint, you can't
1:47:03make that case. Those passages in
1:47:05Revelation that give us a clue
1:47:07I don't think I've actually had some
1:47:09questions about that myself. I don't
1:47:10think necessarily depict
1:47:13what happened at the moment of Satan's
1:47:16fall, maybe, I guess. Um
1:47:19uh
1:47:21It just doesn't explain every It doesn't
1:47:23explain everything. It doesn't explain
1:47:25demons cuz even if you take a third of
1:47:28the angels
1:47:29with him who are these Who are these
1:47:33angelic beings, whatever they might be,
1:47:36that are
1:47:37uh
1:47:37copulating with women, having children
1:47:40and then like Barzillai said, that's
1:47:42another part of the argument is then we
1:47:43start seeing the presence of demons. So
1:47:45it's like we don't really have a good
1:47:46picture for like what actually happened
1:47:49um other than the fact that yeah, it's
1:47:52possible. I think that's the case he
1:47:53makes that the origin of evil
1:47:56This is why I get careful. Evil might
1:47:58have shown up first with Satan.
1:48:01But
1:48:02Satan's evil isn't what's It didn't It's
1:48:05not like venom. It didn't like leave
1:48:07Satan and just spread to us, right? Like
1:48:09it's not like that. The evil that we
1:48:11suffer from originated in the heart of
1:48:13man.
1:48:14You know, uh so What do you think about
1:48:16like, you know,
1:48:18you also have this like theory of the
1:48:19watchers, you know, or the watchers were
1:48:21sent to watch over mankind because it
1:48:23was like an
1:48:24young race and they were learning and
1:48:26all that stuff. Like more like Enochian.
1:48:29Well, I think Michael Heiser in his
1:48:30Unseen Realm book actually makes a lot
1:48:32more sense out of this. So you had
1:48:34you had a heavenly government. Man was
1:48:36not tasked with um
1:48:39taking dominion over heaven. Man was
1:48:41given the earth, right? So in some
1:48:44sense, there's this idea that you have
1:48:47non-image bearers that were tasked with
1:48:49a heavenly administration of sorts.
1:48:52And earth was given to Adam and he was
1:48:55tasked with taking dominion over it and
1:48:57earthly administration. And there's this
1:48:58place Eden was actually a mountain. It
1:49:01wasn't just this flat garden spot. It's
1:49:03It's referred to as like the mountain of
1:49:04Zion or whatever. So Eden was actually
1:49:07probably a a mountain, like a big like,
1:49:10you know, you wouldn't We say mountain,
1:49:11you're not just living on the edge of
1:49:12something, you know what I mean? But,
1:49:14more mountainous, and at the top, it it
1:49:16might appear some of the passages we get
1:49:18from Isaiah and Ezekiel flat stuff
1:49:20indicate that, you know, this maybe God
1:49:23God's
1:49:24God's meeting point, right, is is like
1:49:28the Garden of Eden was like where heaven
1:49:29met earth, so to speak, right? So, you
1:49:31have the earthly administration, the
1:49:32heavenly administration,
1:49:34and then man man's job the heaven's job,
1:49:39so to speak, those tasks with heavenly
1:49:40administration
1:49:42weren't supposed to watch over man. It
1:49:44was a It was supposed to be a
1:49:46cooperation of two governments, so to
1:49:48speak. That was the basic idea.
1:49:49Cooperation of two governments, meeting
1:49:52place being the holy temple
1:49:53>> [laughter]
1:49:54>> where where God resided in Eden. That
1:49:56was a place where heaven met earth, so
1:49:57to speak, which is interesting because
1:49:59the whole idea of the sons of God,
1:50:01according to the Book of Enoch, is they
1:50:02descended on
1:50:04um they descended on
1:50:06you know What's the mountain called? I
1:50:08don't know, but yeah, there was a
1:50:09mountain, yeah. Yeah, so they came down
1:50:11on
1:50:12once again. So, this is a place where
1:50:14heaven meets earth. This is where like
1:50:16mount mountains in scripture are always
1:50:18a place where men
1:50:19>> to say, I I literally have I can't
1:50:21believe I forgot. I used to lit up,
1:50:22Jimmy. I used to park in there all the
1:50:24time. I'm rusty.
1:50:26Jimmy, pull up the video. So rusty.
1:50:29Um
1:50:30But like also okay, why I pull uh
1:50:34asked you about it because
1:50:36you have this like sudden flow off um
1:50:40you know, mankind has tools, they know
1:50:43uh
1:50:45they know astrology, you know, they know
1:50:47music out of nowhere.
1:50:49>> Enoch talks about it. Yeah, exactly.
1:50:51That's That's where I'm coming from, you
1:50:52know. But I mean
1:50:54I would say
1:50:55just reading I I probably read half of
1:50:58it, and I was like, okay, this is just
1:51:00crazy. I was like, one of the things
1:51:02>> the mountain called? Did you find it? Uh
1:51:03trying to find the mountain, but Don't
1:51:05you have the search bar on it?
1:51:07Oh, yeah, let me In the Book of Enoch,
1:51:09which mountain did the watchers descend
1:51:11on?
1:51:16Of course you freeze.
1:51:20Where on
1:51:21Direct says nothing in insurance, but it
1:51:22works for you having insurance to buy.
1:51:27Download the free app or visit
1:51:29direct.com to save today.
1:51:37I can't believe I forgot this.
1:51:42Hebron
1:51:44Oh,
1:51:46Hebron. Oh, Mount Hermon. Mount Hermon.
1:51:49Yes, Mount Hermon. I said Hebron.
1:51:52I knew it was something with H though,
1:51:54but
1:51:55>> [laughter]
1:51:55>> Hebron in Hebrew means fortress. That
1:51:57was a city. That's where Abraham was in
1:52:00and out of was the Hebron. Or it means
1:52:02it's a fortress, but it means
1:52:03brotherhood.
1:52:05Um what was I going to say?
1:52:07Um
1:52:09Oh, I don't know. Well, but but this is
1:52:11where this is where the New Testament is
1:52:12interesting because when Jesus
1:52:15um was
1:52:17uh talking to his disciples and saying
1:52:20upon this rock I will build my church,
1:52:21and the gates of hell won't prevail
1:52:23against it, they were actually at the
1:52:25base of Mount Hermon
1:52:27when that took place, which at the base
1:52:29of that mountain
1:52:31the
1:52:32mythologically, they did look at that as
1:52:34the gate of hell, and it was um
1:52:36>> [snorts]
1:52:36>> uh where where was it called? I can't
1:52:38believe I'm forgetting all these stupid
1:52:40freaking Greek names all of a sudden cuz
1:52:42I haven't talked about it in forever.
1:52:44But it [snorts] is interesting that
1:52:45Jesus would have given that sermon at
1:52:47the base of Mount Hermon
1:52:49um
1:52:50because it did have a huge significance
1:52:53inside the culture with their
1:52:54understanding of the watchers
1:52:56and Mount Hermon. And then
1:52:58also too, who was it in Enoch that was
1:53:01ascribed the blame? It was Azazel. Yeah.
1:53:04>> Right? So, Semyaza taught like uh
1:53:07uh I don't remember what Semyaza taught,
1:53:09but Azazel taught man warfare
1:53:12and bloodshed.
1:53:13>> says that there Dude, there are like so
1:53:16many different types of warfare. Uh
1:53:17taught like bloodshed and warfare.
1:53:19Azazel was ascribed the blame.
1:53:21It all throughout Hebrew culture
1:53:24what did the Jews name the scapegoat
1:53:26before they sent him They put all the
1:53:27sins of the people on him and sent him
1:53:29out in the wilderness? They named the
1:53:30goat Azazel. It's in scripture all to
1:53:32Azazel.
1:53:33So, they would actually the high priest
1:53:35would lay their hands on the scapegoat
1:53:37Mhm. and that's exactly what Azazel was,
1:53:40according to the Book of Enoch, was a
1:53:42scapegoat. He took a lot of the blame.
1:53:45And [snorts] God locked He judged them
1:53:47very harshly, and even up into that
1:53:48point they called the scapegoat Azazel.
1:53:51I just I have a hard time That's That's
1:53:52biblical. That's not extra-biblical. I
1:53:54mean, it was like that that word for the
1:53:56goat is Azazel or Azazel.
1:53:59Enoch ate moreover Azazel taught men to
1:54:01make swords, knives, shields,
1:54:03breastplates, the fabrication of them,
1:54:05mirrors, and their works uh workmanship
1:54:07of bracelets and ornaments, use of
1:54:09paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows,
1:54:11use of stones of every valuable and
1:54:13select kind.
1:54:14And also with the dyes so that the world
1:54:16uh became altered.
1:54:18Impiety increased, fornication
1:54:19multiplied, and they turned transgressed
1:54:21and corrupted all their ways. Uh
1:54:25Amezarak taught all the sorcerers and
1:54:27dividers of roots
1:54:29armaros uh taught the solution of
1:54:31sorcery
1:54:32Baraqel taught the observers of the
1:54:35stars
1:54:36uh Aqib'el taught signs, Tamiel taught
1:54:39astronomy
1:54:40and
1:54:41uh what is this? Asael Asaradel taught
1:54:44the motion of the moon and men being
1:54:46destroyed cried out and their voice
1:54:48reached But see And see, here's the
1:54:50thing and and this is the thing about
1:54:53why I find this kind of stuff really
1:54:54interesting because it's not like this
1:54:57is all theoretical with no
1:54:58archaeological evidence.
1:55:00There is a massive amount of
1:55:02archaeological evidence about giants.
1:55:04It's not theoretical. Mhm. And there's a
1:55:06massive amount of archaeological
1:55:08evidence that they had an understanding
1:55:09of the stars and the movements of the
1:55:11stars in a way that we still can't
1:55:13precision engineer. And we still can't
1:55:15explain how they built the pyramids. No
1:55:17matter how much we try, nobody can
1:55:19understand how they built the pyramids.
1:55:21It doesn't make any sense. The weight of
1:55:23the stones, the precision of the stones,
1:55:25the length that they drug those stones,
1:55:27the stones of Baalbek, dude, like even
1:55:30like even in the construction of the
1:55:32temple
1:55:33those cedars of Lebanon, giants were
1:55:34compared to the cedars of Lebanon. What
1:55:36did What did Solomon build the first
1:55:39temple? He was dragging in cedars from
1:55:41Lebanon because of their great stature.
1:55:43I mean, dude, like you just you look at
1:55:46you look at what was in Lebanon like
1:55:48Baalbek, dude. You Have you guys ever
1:55:50seen the stones of Baalbek?
1:55:52I can't say that. But I have seen the
1:55:54cedars of Lebanon. Let me show you what
1:55:56buildings in Baalbek were made out of.
1:55:59Let me show you what Let me show you
1:56:00what the
1:56:01uh stupid signal.
1:56:04So slow.
1:56:07I'm turning my Wi-Fi. Oh, dude, you
1:56:10Dude, even off the coast of Japan,
1:56:11they've got steps that are made for
1:56:12people that were probably 15 ft tall.
1:56:14They're at the bottom of the ocean. You
1:56:16got divers, but this is before AI. You
1:56:18got divers swimming around there looking
1:56:20at steps, you know, and structures, and
1:56:23it's like they're not made for regular
1:56:24people. The stories from
1:56:26uh Marines in Egypt, look at the size of
1:56:28the freaking doors, you know, and stuff.
1:56:30I mean, The stories of
1:56:32uh Marines
1:56:33in Kandahar, in Afghanistan. Oh, that's
1:56:36Yeah, that's still there. Even the
1:56:37Valley of Headless Men in Canada, that's
1:56:39real.
1:56:39>> the thing
1:56:40what really fascinates me I'll tell you
1:56:43in a second. It's awesome. Hey, Jared,
1:56:44what fascinates me is like the fact
1:56:46that, you know, people like um
1:56:50I mean, there were so many nations that
1:56:52tried to conquer that part of the world,
1:56:54especially Afghanistan, and nobody, you
1:56:56know These are single stones that were
1:56:59stacked on top of each other and
1:57:00comprised walls.
1:57:02Dang.
1:57:03Those are That's insane. This is not AI.
1:57:05This is Yeah, that is a huge stone. No,
1:57:07bro, like one one thing No, I mean,
1:57:10giant Dude, giants were real. The Bible
1:57:12talks about it. Like look at these
1:57:13things. This is what they They had Dude,
1:57:15we can't move this to this day.
1:57:17We can't quarry that. We can't move it,
1:57:20you know? Like
1:57:22Yeah, there's no Uh
1:57:25Like this is the most Yeah, that I just
1:57:27showed you that one.
1:57:28Um let's see s
1:57:30s
1:57:31Let's see. Giant
1:57:33steps
1:57:36underwater
1:57:39Japan.
1:57:42Nate, it's like I've been lied to my
1:57:43whole life.
1:57:44>> [laughter]
1:57:47>> Bro, look at the Like whenever your mom
1:57:49makes good chicken what kind of chicken
1:57:52does she use? Like
1:57:54Wait, is it normal chicken? Like a
1:57:56dinosaur? What kind of chicken? Like
1:57:58chicken thigh? Not real. All.
1:58:01I'm so confused.
1:58:02>> What do you think about dinosaurs? It's
1:58:04usually like Oh, um I think I have a
1:58:08balanced approach to the dinosaur thing.
1:58:10So, I do think that we had big lizards,
1:58:14but I think our modern conception of
1:58:16dinosaurs largely resulted from fraud in
1:58:19the 1800s.
1:58:20There are all So, like this this giant
1:58:23pantheon of like giant lizard creatures
1:58:26in every different capacity, you'll find
1:58:28that um and I've heard people talk about
1:58:30this before. I do think they were real
1:58:32big lizards.
1:58:33Um but the modern conception of
1:58:36dinosaurs, I think is largely
1:58:37fictitious. Because most of the time,
1:58:40you'll find that they find like 5% of
1:58:44Like dude, this is kind of what happens.
1:58:45They find a bunch of bones and like, how
1:58:47do these go together? Yeah. Or they only
1:58:49find like 10% of something, and you'll
1:58:51find a lot of it's like kind of
1:58:52fabricated, you know, or theorized. And
1:58:55I It's just like I
1:58:58there is a part of me
1:59:01that thinks sometimes
1:59:03they find uh maybe I'm wrong. This could
1:59:05be really stupid cuz they tested and
1:59:07they're like this clearly not.
1:59:09Dude, a big femur is a big femur.
1:59:13>> [snorts]
1:59:14>> And I know there were things walking
1:59:15around with a big femur. Sometimes I
1:59:18wonder if we're not looking at like
1:59:20fictitious displays of old giants that
1:59:24they told us were lizards and were
1:59:25really
1:59:26like Nephilim of sorts, but I I don't
1:59:28know. I
1:59:29But I do think that I do think there's
1:59:31an element of it that's very real. Have
1:59:33you heard of the all those theories that
1:59:34like, you know, because of the kind of
1:59:36hard giant giants, like a lot of these
1:59:40nations that tried to conquer, you know,
1:59:42that part of the world like Afghanistan
1:59:44specifically
1:59:45like
1:59:47Alexander the Great, who are the who are
1:59:49the other guys?
1:59:50There was this um
1:59:52the Mongolian Empire, the Ottomans, they
1:59:55never could. Even the English, even the
1:59:57British tried to. I've heard that.
1:59:59I've even heard of cover-ups in the
2:00:01Grand Canyon with Egyptian artifacts.
2:00:05Because where was Solomon getting all of
2:00:06his stuff? They did The thing is even
2:00:08the history of how they were doing
2:00:09copper mining copper and stuff, there's
2:00:12evidence that Solomon was pulling copper
2:00:14from the United States and they act like
2:00:16nobody else was ever here. History is
2:00:18largely fictitious. You can't really You
2:00:20got like you got to be careful when you
2:00:21say stuff like that cuz
2:00:23there really is not much There's nothing
2:00:25in the history books that would explain
2:00:26it, but one of my friends, Dr. Judd
2:00:28Burton,
2:00:29he talked about how in the Phoenicians
2:00:32they found these
2:00:33um
2:00:34uh
2:00:35brass or copper, I don't know which one
2:00:37is supposed to come first,
2:00:39um
2:00:39statues and it was supposed to be pre or
2:00:43pre-copper bronze era.
2:00:46And they were statues made out of a
2:00:49metal that shouldn't have existed then
2:00:51and the the the the statue was of Azazel
2:00:54who taught him metallurgy. And that he
2:00:56found that interesting that you will
2:00:58find you will find
2:01:00metal metallurgic statues of Azazel in
2:01:04places where we're taught they didn't
2:01:06have that technology to make the metal.
2:01:09And what does Enoch tell us? That it was
2:01:11>> He taught him metallurgy.
2:01:13>> [laughter]
2:01:16>> So like, you know, and that's that was
2:01:18doctoral work, dude. That's like I'm
2:01:20saying that was That's not just like
2:01:21hearsay. I mean he writes about that
2:01:23stuff, right? Um [snorts] he did his
2:01:25doctoral thesis here at Texas Tech on
2:01:27the anthropological footprints of the
2:01:29Nephilim in the United States. You look
2:01:31at the Serpent mounds in Ohio, the
2:01:32Cahokia mounds in Missouri.
2:01:34Uh all of the oral tradition that's
2:01:36passed on the southern Indian tribes, um
2:01:39they uh
2:01:41the the Adobe uh cliff dwellers that
2:01:44used to live there, all of those peoples
2:01:45that had the oral tradition passed on.
2:01:47I've talked to some of those Indians
2:01:48before. When they were growing up, their
2:01:50grandmas taught them that they lived in
2:01:52the cliffs because sometimes the giants
2:01:55in the south would eat them.
2:01:56So what they did was they lived high
2:01:58enough where the giants couldn't get
2:02:00them.
2:02:01Okay? When Lewis and Clark uh traveled
2:02:04the United States, there were lots of
2:02:06legends and lores. It was almost like on
2:02:07the out the the tail end of the um
2:02:10of the the
2:02:12Nephilim in the United States being
2:02:14present, there were red-headed 9-ft
2:02:16Indians
2:02:17uh with six fingers cuz the the the
2:02:19Bible's very clear anytime you're
2:02:21dealing with a giant, there was always
2:02:22six fingers and six toes. That's a
2:02:24distinguishing feat. Goliath had six
2:02:25fingers and six toes. And you'll see
2:02:28depictions on some of the old Indian
2:02:30artwork. Well, it's even said this, I
2:02:32don't know if this is true or not, but
2:02:33one of the one of the old Indian things,
2:02:35I don't know if you know this cuz you
2:02:37weren't raised on Westerns like good
2:02:39old-fashioned young dumb American boys,
2:02:42but we
2:02:43you know, everybody growing up was like
2:02:46You mean the feather Indians, right?
2:02:47Yeah, the not the Yeah, the not the
2:02:50Not the red ones.
2:02:51Not the recording people.
2:02:53>> [laughter]
2:02:54>> Not not the ones that are always being
2:02:56targeted by a sniper.
2:03:02>> [laughter]
2:03:05>> Uh All right, what were you going to
2:03:07say? No, but it back in the day I we did
2:03:10we just learned cuz it was like Indians
2:03:11would always walk up in TV shows and
2:03:13stuff and they would be like, "How?"
2:03:15right? And uh like anytime anytime kids
2:03:18do anytime kids would play an Indian,
2:03:20they would be like, "How?" right? Like
2:03:22where did that come from? Well, I heard
2:03:24some historians talk about this that had
2:03:25done some research on like the Nephilim
2:03:27thing.
2:03:28>> [laughter]
2:03:28>> The oral tradition was uh from these
2:03:31Indian tribes that they would present
2:03:32their hand to show that they had five
2:03:34fingers.
2:03:35They were showing [clears throat] that
2:03:36they didn't have six. They weren't.
2:03:38Yeah. That's fascinating. I don't know
2:03:40if that's true. I'm not going to teach
2:03:42that anywhere, but I like I've always
2:03:43said that it was true. But anyway, Lewis
2:03:45and Clark when they traveled the United
2:03:46States, one of the reasons [snorts]
2:03:48people think that Meriwether Lewis was
2:03:50murdered trying to get the journal back
2:03:53to Thomas Jefferson at the Smithsonian
2:03:55Institute uh was because there was a lot
2:03:58of they encountered a lot of evidence of
2:04:00giants in the United States still or at
2:04:02least remnants of the giants. And for
2:04:04whatever reason, they decided they were
2:04:05going to start moving in a different
2:04:07direction. All of their lots of
2:04:09newspaper articles in the United States
2:04:11from the mid-1800s like up in the Ohio
2:04:14River Valley where farmers would hit
2:04:16these 18-ft skeletons and they would dig
2:04:19them up. And then the Smithsonian
2:04:20Institute honestly seems like it was
2:04:23created to go ahead
2:04:25take and like everything that's been
2:04:26found gets taken by the Smithsonian and
2:04:29then something's released. Nobody else
2:04:31gets to examine it and they uh will
2:04:34automatically come out and say, "Well,
2:04:36that guy was just an idiot. He didn't
2:04:37know how to measure it. It was only 6
2:04:39and 1/2 ft." I was like that farmer was
2:04:41like, "That was like 18 ft, you know?"
2:04:43And it's like dude, every time we find
2:04:46evidence of even to this day, true
2:04:49story.
2:04:52Yeah, he had stuff he found.
2:04:54Um
2:04:55Joe Taylor uh
2:04:57Do you guys Let me show you a picture.
2:04:59Let me get a book real quick. Give me a
2:05:00second. What about that president that
2:05:02uh was regarding Bigfoot though?
2:05:05I don't remember.
2:05:09Do you know about that? Like uh
2:05:13No, um
2:05:14Oh my gosh, it was
2:05:17I keep all the occult books right next
2:05:18to my bed so nobody can see them.
2:05:21I got three bookshelves back there.
2:05:24When people go to my office, they're
2:05:25like, "Nice theology books." I'm like,
2:05:26"Would you like to check out the Nazis
2:05:28in the occult section?"
2:05:31What is that skull?
2:05:34Yeah, I'm not without
2:05:36Dude, I could talk about this forever,
2:05:37but I'm not
2:05:39Let's do this. I'm not without having
2:05:41spent time in this subject. Neither is
2:05:43it for a lack of of resources.
2:05:46Um I have books that
2:05:49This was a femur found in Turkey. They
2:05:52made a mold of the real one.
2:05:56Bro.
2:05:58Bro.
2:06:00I've got pictures of me standing in
2:06:01front of that thing.
2:06:02There is no way that could possibly be a
2:06:05giant lizard. My only regret is before
2:06:07he died I didn't spend the 450 bucks to
2:06:09get him to make me one.
2:06:12You really hang hang it though.
2:06:14Right on right on over with that TV.
2:06:17It's the perfect spot. Right?
2:06:19>> [laughter]
2:06:20>> Oh, I was too hooked. I meant to tell
2:06:21you what the
2:06:22So in the 1970s
2:06:25there was a place in outside of
2:06:26Vancouver in Canada up in that part of
2:06:29the world where
2:06:31Look, all of these These are all places
2:06:33where they found skeletons across the
2:06:35United States. It's all been cataloged.
2:06:39And then you can go search this um
2:06:41Alaska.
2:06:42I I don't even know what to do with some
2:06:44of these.
2:06:45>> [laughter]
2:06:47>> That's a combo, bro.
2:06:50Look, in the Arizona Grand In Arizona
2:06:53Grand Canyon cave uh they found 50
2:06:56complete skeletons 10 ft to 14 ft tall.
2:06:59Uh cataloged uh the leg of a man who
2:07:02died in the 1950s was found turned into
2:07:04limestone in 50 years. Therefore, a
2:07:06giant man might have been petrified in a
2:07:07few hundred years or less. They found um
2:07:10skeletons.
2:07:13Let's see, the Arizona giant coffin.
2:07:15They found in 1891. They found a coffin
2:07:17that was 12 ft tall. The incision on the
2:07:20side of the coffin of a of a foot with
2:07:22six toes agrees with the description of
2:07:25giants. Catalina Islands, I know a guy
2:07:28that lives off the coast of the Catalina
2:07:29Islands. They found human skulls that
2:07:31were three to six times larger. Um
2:07:34Lampoc, California 1883. They dug up a
2:07:3712-footer.
2:07:39Go Goliath who could you know,
2:07:41dude, even by conservative estimates
2:07:43they say Goliath was 10 ft. He was
2:07:45probably bigger like 14 or something.
2:07:48Um
2:07:50I was going to uh Oh, I was going to
2:07:51tell Nate I got to tell Nate this story.
2:07:52Oh, I I got a picture. Audrey took a
2:07:54picture. There's one of Josh too. That
2:07:56was one of our Josh on our field trip
2:07:58with this thing. That's Audrey when she
2:07:59was little, but she took a picture with
2:08:00it.
2:08:07I want you to print that picture. I
2:08:08don't want to lose that to the cloud. I
2:08:10like that picture.
2:08:12She needs to know where she comes from.
2:08:13It's weird.
2:08:14>> [laughter]
2:08:18>> Yeah, yeah, Josh went with this.
2:08:20>> [laughter]
2:08:20>> There's Josh. That's
2:08:22Josh is I know he used to look very
2:08:25weird when he was young though.
2:08:26He looks exactly the same.
2:08:29I guess it wasn't that
2:08:30that old.
2:08:32Anyway, Josh's picture on my phone is
2:08:34him whenever he was 15.
2:08:36Have you seen him without the beard? I
2:08:38cannot And he was pictured Oh my gosh,
2:08:41he's hilarious. All right, so okay,
2:08:42sorry. I keep stalling out on the story,
2:08:44but um
2:08:45the
2:08:46they were hunt There was I'm trying to
2:08:48remember the story. So it was called the
2:08:49Valley of Headless Men
2:08:52because they [clears throat] would
2:08:52randomly find the occasional hunter dead
2:08:55out in the wilderness that didn't have
2:08:58his head cut off. He had his head pulled
2:09:00off.
2:09:01So, his head was just gone or somewhere
2:09:04close by, but [snorts] it had been
2:09:06pulled from the body. So, the forensic
2:09:08report would be like, head was pulled
2:09:10off. Like, how's that? Like, super
2:09:12crazy.
2:09:13And one guy was out there hunting and
2:09:16this was his testimony. I listened to
2:09:18his first-hand account of it. I don't
2:09:19know if it's true or not. It sounds
2:09:20crazy, but it'll dovetail with another
2:09:22fact that you guys may not know, which I
2:09:24find particularly interesting.
2:09:27He said that he was out there in the
2:09:31woods. He was hunting and he said that
2:09:33he took up a position someplace and he
2:09:36was he was like glassing the area for
2:09:38game. And he saw a stone, which looked
2:09:43was a huge stone on the on the side of a
2:09:46hill that started to move and it freaked
2:09:49him out and he just sat there. And he
2:09:51said there was um this stone moves to
2:09:55the side like it gets shoved and scooted
2:09:58over to the side and there's a big hole.
2:10:00And I don't remember how tall the thing
2:10:02was, but he made it sound like it was 20
2:10:04ft tall. I don't know how tall it was. I
2:10:06don't know. That came out. It was a It
2:10:08was like a like a humanoid like thing
2:10:11that was like dirty and disheveled that
2:10:14comes out and then it did some stuff out
2:10:16there in the woods for a minute and then
2:10:18it went back in and it moved the stone
2:10:19back. Anybody out there, he said, would
2:10:21have never
2:10:23um would have never ever thought
2:10:26anything about that stone because it
2:10:27certainly doesn't look like a door,
2:10:29right? And he tells that story to
2:10:32everybody, but that's in the same part
2:10:33of the world that you had people with
2:10:35their heads pulled off. That's true.
2:10:37Like, you can look up those reports of
2:10:39the It's called the Valley of Headless
2:10:41Men, dude. And um
2:10:44this is something that I found
2:10:45interesting. I've never gotten answers
2:10:47on.
2:10:47Cave systems in the United States are
2:10:50always under federal control, always.
2:10:53And under the Freedom of Information
2:10:54Act, when you wanted cave systems
2:10:56when they released the Freedom of
2:10:58Information Act, one of the things that
2:10:59was protected from the Freedom of
2:11:00Information Act is is the is diagrams of
2:11:03cave systems.
2:11:05There are cave systems that people are
2:11:07allowed to explore, but they're always
2:11:09under federal control. So, if all of a
2:11:11sudden there was a sinkhole out here or
2:11:13something and it had access to a cave,
2:11:15even though it's on my property, I don't
2:11:17own it. I don't own it. Federal
2:11:20government come in and kick me off the
2:11:22property and take control of the
2:11:23situation. Like, they control Now, some
2:11:26people say it's for
2:11:27strategic defense against domestic
2:11:29terrorism cuz they don't want people
2:11:30being able to like come up under the
2:11:32White House or something. Like, you
2:11:33know, that kind of crap or whatever
2:11:34having access to subterranean routes,
2:11:36you know, places.
2:11:38But to be honest with you, you'll find
2:11:40that in places where like overseas where
2:11:43you have the most disappearances, it's
2:11:45always in cavernous systems.
2:11:47And in Afghanistan where you have the
2:11:49Kandahar giants and stuff like that.
2:11:51>> Caves. Caves everywhere. Caves
2:11:54everywhere. In fact, the natives there
2:11:56are terrified of going out at night.
2:11:57>> It has the hardest terrains and also you
2:11:59have like the whole Himalayan range
2:12:01going through it.
2:12:01>> They're terrified of going out at night
2:12:03cuz these 12-ft things will show up and
2:12:05just spear you and then they're gone.
2:12:07Like, dude, the natives there talk about
2:12:09it all the time. But like, what about
2:12:11even like national parks here? If you
2:12:13were like to match everything up like
2:12:14with missing missing persons report
2:12:16like, hey, their last position was here
2:12:18near a cave system
2:12:19>> Yeah.
2:12:20>> national park. Well, what's funny is
2:12:22like in the 411, David Paulides, you
2:12:24ever heard of that?
2:12:25>> Mhm. Can't say that. All right. Google
2:12:27just YouTube David Paulides, I D E S.
2:12:31It's David Paulides, so Paulides missing
2:12:34411.
2:12:35He'll talk about all the unexplained
2:12:37disappearances of people. Now, here's
2:12:40the thing where it gets crossed over.
2:12:41There are a lot more reports of feral
2:12:44cannibals living in the Appalachian
2:12:46Mountains and stuff and in some places
2:12:48that could explain a lot of missing
2:12:50persons. Um but it's always the missing
2:12:53persons reports. There are a lot more
2:12:54people who go missing every year than
2:12:55people realize that are never found
2:12:57again. And um
2:12:59it's a combination of uh those that
2:13:04they're always near a body of water and
2:13:06I find that interesting. That's the only
2:13:07connection that David Paulides made was
2:13:09it's always near a body of water. Did
2:13:11you Did you find stuff? Uh Missing 411
2:13:14UFO connection. Yeah, David Paulides is
2:13:17somehow lying about the missing
2:13:20411. That was That was 6 months ago.
2:13:23Missing 411 the haunted.
2:13:25Like, the the chilling truth. There's
2:13:27like a lot of different things here with
2:13:29uh this guy.
2:13:31I just let listen to him. I don't know.
2:13:32That looks like George Noory.
2:13:34It might be David Paulides.
2:13:37But anyway, there are documentaries and
2:13:38stuff out there. I watched them like I
2:13:40think they were on Netflix or something.
2:13:42They're terrifying.
2:13:43What? The Missing 411? Let's see what
2:13:45Grok says about the Valley of Headless
2:13:46Men.
2:13:49People just go
2:13:52Hey, tell me about the history of the
2:13:54Valley of Headless Men in Canada.
2:13:57They never go missing in Loveland cuz we
2:13:59don't have Loveland.
2:14:03With all that snow, you know.
2:14:06Yeah, that's true.
2:14:10Texas is New Mexico.
2:14:12Yeah, so it's like Ohio. Ohio
2:14:14>> Tell me about the history of the Valley
2:14:16of Headless Men in Canada. No, that's
2:14:18why I'd much rather I'm concerned about
2:14:21a certain pastor who has a house near a
2:14:23pond.
2:14:26Ryan.
2:14:27No, it's going to be like a real person.
2:14:29Speaking of heritage site today. Oh, hi.
2:14:31It's a strange mix of indigenous oral
2:14:33tradition, gold rush greed and a series
2:14:35of macabre unsolved mysteries. One,
2:14:38origins, the Nahanni people. Long before
2:14:41European explorers arrived, the Dene
2:14:43people told stories of the Nahanni, a
2:14:45fierce mountain tribe that would descend
2:14:47into the lowlands to raid settlements.
2:14:49The mystery. According to oral history,
2:14:52the Nahanni vanished overnight. They
2:14:54didn't migrate or die out in battle.
2:14:56They simply ceased to exist, leaving the
2:14:58valley with an eerie reputation for
2:15:00being haunted or forbidden. Two, the
2:15:02gold rush and the macabre McClouds. The
2:15:05valley's modern notoriety began in the
2:15:07early 1900s during the tail end of the
2:15:09Klondike gold rush. In 1908, the McLeod
2:15:12brothers, Willie and Frank McLeod,
2:15:13headed into the valley to find gold.
2:15:15They weren't seen again for 3 years
2:15:17until a search party found their
2:15:18remains. Their bodies were discovered at
2:15:20their campsite, but their heads were
2:15:22missing. The legend grows. Their
2:15:24partner, Robert Weir, was also missing
2:15:26and the rumor mill suggested they had
2:15:27found a mother lode of gold, sparking a
2:15:29wave of prospectors brave or foolish
2:15:32enough to enter the 200-mi long canyon.
2:15:34Three, a pattern of disappearances.
2:15:37Following the McClouds, the body count
2:15:39and the decapitation count allegedly
2:15:41grew, cementing the name Deadman Valley.
2:15:43Year, person,
2:15:45circumstances. 1917,
2:15:48Martin Jorgenson, a Swiss prospector
2:15:51whose cabin was found burned to the
2:15:52ground. His headless skeleton was found
2:15:54nearby. 1945,
2:15:57Ernest Savard, a miner found dead in a
2:16:00sleeping bag. Again, reports claim the
2:16:02head was missing. 1940s to '60s, various
2:16:06men like Phil Powers and Vance Hall
2:16:09disappeared without a trace or were
2:16:11found in mysterious states of decay.
2:16:13Four, rationalizing the legend. While
2:16:16the stories are chilling, historians and
2:16:18skeptics offer more
2:16:24Wolves
2:16:25Yeah, whatever. Wolves pull their heads
2:16:26off.
2:16:28Without eating Wolves pull their heads
2:16:30off. Yeah, but that's that's the the
2:16:31There's one account of a guy that
2:16:33actually tells a story. It was recorded
2:16:35in the '70s. I don't know.
2:16:37>> Like a testimonial? Yeah.
2:16:38>> Oh, yeah. And I don't remember what it
2:16:40was exactly, but uh
2:16:42it uh Yeah, it just goes on, but like
2:16:44books like this I was really grateful
2:16:46for the people put together cuz it's not
2:16:48like empirical proof, but it just shows
2:16:51like
2:16:53all kinds of things that you can explore
2:16:55that would just I mean, all over the
2:16:56world, dude.
2:16:58You know, um
2:17:01even the Sphinx, right? Like, you know,
2:17:03it was like it was given a cat-like
2:17:05face. Yeah. You know, later on in life.
2:17:07What are you looking at? What? What is
2:17:08that skull?
2:17:10Oh, that was one of the old creatures or
2:17:13a skull of something that was found in
2:17:15>> mammoth one.
2:17:16There used to be that place in Crosby,
2:17:18Texas, but the guy that owned it died.
2:17:21He was a character.
2:17:23Um
2:17:24and it was super fascinating cuz it was
2:17:26really close. He had like He was an
2:17:28archaeologist and he found It's stuff
2:17:30and he would make molds and he just had
2:17:33like a fascinating life, but it was in
2:17:36Crosby, Texas.
2:17:38Well, sorry. Like, one of the dark one
2:17:40of the papers that Jed Burton wrote, it
2:17:42was called the Shazzu and the hierarchy
2:17:43of scale thesis and it was really good
2:17:45because when you have the depictions on
2:17:48the hieroglyphs of giants in Egypt like
2:17:51in their hieroglyphs, you got like
2:17:52people that are like 12, 13 ft tall
2:17:54Yeah. and then like small like 5, 6-ft
2:17:56that are trying to like rope them and
2:17:57stuff. They would always try to explain
2:18:00away the depiction of like the pharaohs
2:18:01and stuff being so large as it was
2:18:03symbolic. Their authority, they towered
2:18:05in stature over every stature over
2:18:07everybody else.
2:18:08But what Jed Burton says is it doesn't
2:18:10add up with the the the the Shazzu
2:18:13because there's one higher There's a
2:18:14hieroglyph in Egypt where you have all
2:18:17these little 6-ft guys that are they
2:18:20subdued and they're tying up these 12-ft
2:18:22giants, right? It's like a It's like a
2:18:24history of a war that took place. And
2:18:26what's funny is he said if that if that
2:18:29hierarchy of scale thesis adds up, then
2:18:33in this case where they've subdued, you
2:18:36wouldn't create them so large because it
2:18:38doesn't it doesn't fit the ideology of
2:18:40the Egyptian people as you say it
2:18:42should.
2:18:43>> Yes. What they're actually showing is
2:18:44that they're binding up an actual 12-ft
2:18:47person. Like, this is this is a piece of
2:18:49history that you have like a 12 or
2:18:5113-ft, maybe 15, I can't remember,
2:18:53that's being attacked by a mob of little
2:18:55people that
2:18:56and even David
2:18:58like David called his men the Gibborim.
2:19:00It's like when we call like our the
2:19:02mighty men. The Gibborim were showed up
2:19:05prior to David. They were actually I
2:19:08think they were listed as a race of
2:19:10giants.
2:19:11And people said, "Well, David called his
2:19:12men the Gibborim. They were just mighty
2:19:14men." So, they give me I'm like, "Yeah,
2:19:15but why? Like, dude, our mascots in this
2:19:17world are not called the fighting
2:19:19tigers, you know, because like we all
2:19:22the people that we You know that You
2:19:24know what I mean? We we we name our men
2:19:26and our teams off of things that are
2:19:28more ferocious, you know? You can't say
2:19:31tigers don't exist cuz we call humans
2:19:32tigers. You know, they're like, "Well,
2:19:34they they weren't really giants cuz the
2:19:36Gibborim in David's day were just men."
2:19:37I'm like, "But why did he call them the
2:19:39the Gibborim?" You know, his mighty men
2:19:41were the Gibborim. It was like, "We're
2:19:42the freaking giants. Yeah." You know,
2:19:45it's just like it it's it dude, they
2:19:47existed. I cannot I I can't stand the
2:19:50fact that people try to act like giants
2:19:51didn't exist.
2:19:53We found a bunch of old pictures the
2:19:55other day and Josh was in some of them
2:19:58whenever he was young with his like no
2:20:00beard like emo haircut. Oh, wow.
2:20:03Dude, I want to see that.
2:20:05It's on his Instagram though. Oh,
2:20:07really? Yeah.
2:20:09I don't think I've ever eaten like that
2:20:11since then.
2:20:12Yeah.
2:20:15Yeah. And our giants are real.
2:20:17Absolutely.
2:20:21They have like Yeah, they have like a
2:20:23three or four episode like
2:20:26old thing you bought. Oh, really? Yeah.
2:20:28I haven't listened to that. They have
2:20:29like
2:20:31Mount Blanca. They have
2:20:32>> something similar to that. It's it's
2:20:34what they
2:20:36another Skinwalker Ranch.
2:20:38But it was a completely different thing
2:20:40and it was supposed to be like this
2:20:41haunted Indian tribe
2:20:43that would go after all these greedy
2:20:45people that were going after some of
2:20:47this treasure and like they would
2:20:49descend upon these people.
2:20:51There's three episodes on the Skinwalker
2:20:53Ranch. Yeah.
2:20:55>> to the first one I think. And then
2:20:57they're different eras of Skinwalker
2:20:59Ranch.
2:21:01Yeah.
2:21:02>> [laughter]
2:21:03>> And then there was another one that they
2:21:05released I think I know last year
2:21:07probably and it was like could this be
2:21:09the new Skinwalker Ranch or something
2:21:11like that.
2:21:12And then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
2:21:14then they for giants they have like I
2:21:16think at least two episodes on just
2:21:19giants and then another one on biblical
2:21:22giants or the giants in the Bible or
2:21:24something like that. Interesting. Dude,
2:21:25there's so much about the Valley of
2:21:27Hinnom on YouTube but I I don't know
2:21:28where that original
2:21:30video was.
2:21:33So, not just get
2:21:35so far off into the weeds even more.
2:21:39But Jared, do you think that going
2:21:41through biblical demonology it would
2:21:43explain sort of
2:21:45the land as well?
2:21:47Like um
2:21:50going through
2:21:51the Torah and then a little afterwards
2:21:55um
2:21:55you know, looking into
2:21:57uh I think it was also a bit of Judges.
2:22:00But it was like, "Don't go and you know,
2:22:02worship the gods of this land." But it
2:22:04it felt like it was sort of like tied
2:22:06specifically to the land and Oh, yeah,
2:22:08with that's the Deuteronomy 32
2:22:09worldview. So, um after Babel, God
2:22:13divided up the nations according to the
2:22:15number of the sons of God.
2:22:17And that's where this whole idea of
2:22:19like, you know, that was Genesis chapter
2:22:2011 or whatever. And uh
2:22:24I always found that very interesting cuz
2:22:25the table of nations shows us that they
2:22:27they were 70 or 72. People debate that.
2:22:31And uh so, we had at least 70
2:22:34uh new nations and 70 new languages
2:22:37overnight. And you do see that where God
2:22:40handed This is where I've like I kind of
2:22:42differ from other people and it kind of
2:22:44messed up my worldview until I became
2:22:46reformed. I kind of still thought that
2:22:48you had like lowercase G gods sometimes
2:22:51in charge of different nation-states.
2:22:54And
2:22:55um
2:22:56you certainly had that in the Old
2:22:57Testament, the god of this nation versus
2:22:59the god of that nation, that kind of
2:23:01thing. People worship this god God that
2:23:03I mean, that happened, dude. Or when God
2:23:05divided them up, he divided them up
2:23:07according to the number of the sons of
2:23:08God in scripture.
2:23:09And then we have an account of the table
2:23:11We have the table of nations and it's
2:23:12like you know, so you get 70 nations
2:23:15which means that you must have had a lot
2:23:17of these fallen deities God's like,
2:23:19"Fine, you don't want to be you don't
2:23:20want me to be your god. I'll give you a
2:23:21god. I'll give you a I'll give you a
2:23:23demon god, so to speak."
2:23:25And that that was very real, man. It's
2:23:27like when when the Ark of the Covenant
2:23:29was captured, you know, they worshipped
2:23:31Dagon, right? And so, Dagon is is like a
2:23:35some sort of weird fish god and then
2:23:37they set the Ark of the Covenant next to
2:23:39the statue of Dagon and what happens
2:23:40like uh first night it's like it's like
2:23:44God's it's like God's presence is with
2:23:46the Ark of the Covenant and it's I can
2:23:48almost just see it. He's just like
2:23:49looking at this statue of this pagan god
2:23:51and what does he do? He's just like
2:23:53you know, and Dagon falls over and then
2:23:55they get so distressed cuz Dagon keeps
2:23:57falling over next to the Ark of the
2:23:58Covenant that they're like, "Get the ark
2:24:00out of here." You know, he's like it's
2:24:01like messing with our god. And I'm like
2:24:04that's happening in scripture, right?
2:24:06Like this is the god of their nation,
2:24:07right? And um
2:24:09so, at the end of the day, I do think
2:24:11it's true that the problem we run into
2:24:12is when you still carry that over a-
2:24:14after Christ's death, burial,
2:24:17resurrection, ascension into heaven
2:24:19because [snorts] you know you you see
2:24:21where all of these things have been
2:24:22placed underneath um there's a sense in
2:24:25which when when Satan was offering
2:24:27Christ kingdoms um
2:24:31Christ was already promised the world,
2:24:34you know, it's already it's they're
2:24:35already going to be his. It's just to
2:24:37get it and work for to to acquire it by
2:24:40worshipping the devil outside of the
2:24:42blessings of God. That's that's the sin.
2:24:44And he didn't do it, obviously. Jesus
2:24:46can't sin. And he doubles down on the
2:24:48word of God and God's promises. And then
2:24:51you know, later on we see he ascends to
2:24:52the right hand of the Father and it's
2:24:53like like it's it's all his now, you
2:24:56know? So, now you don't have any you
2:24:58don't have anything that's in charge. In
2:25:00fact, I'm of the belief that the the
2:25:02further into Christian history we get,
2:25:04the less and less of the demonic you're
2:25:05going to see.
2:25:07Uh because right now it's like as the
2:25:09church continues to grow and expand, the
2:25:10less of the demonic you actually see.
2:25:13Now that you say that, it makes all the
2:25:14sense. Like you have
2:25:16you know, Old Testament a lot, New
2:25:18Testament less with the apostles and
2:25:21then you have like the early church
2:25:22fathers and you have Luther's, you know,
2:25:25um and then uh
2:25:26by the time you reach colonial
2:25:28Puritanism, like a lot of that has just
2:25:30like you don't see it.
2:25:32>> Yeah, and what's sad is like you're
2:25:34starting to see it more again in the
2:25:35United States as the church's power has
2:25:37started to wane. And and so, it's like
2:25:39it's like you know, you see a lot less
2:25:41of it, but you always see it in like
2:25:43pockets, you know, it's not like rampant
2:25:45and widespread.
2:25:47But that's um
2:25:49we were actually going to talk about
2:25:50that Tuesday. Uh we'll talk about it
2:25:52next Tuesday, but it's the idea that
2:25:55Christ presents saying that we're the
2:25:57salt and the light. A lot of people look
2:25:59at the salt as flavor, but salt has a
2:26:01curative property that stops decay. Yep.
2:26:04And so, really what he's saying is like
2:26:06Christians stop the putrefaction
2:26:10of the world. Yeah, it's like
2:26:12>> and it's like that's that's it. And when
2:26:14when there's less salt, there's more
2:26:16decay.
2:26:17You know. Didn't like in old cultures, I
2:26:19still remember somebody told me like
2:26:21even back in Pakistan
2:26:23that they would, you know, if if there
2:26:25was meat, you know, when they didn't
2:26:27have refrigerators, they would like just
2:26:28cover it up with salt.
2:26:30>> Salt, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's how you
2:26:31cure it. I mean, that's essentially
2:26:33you would salt would if it lost its like
2:26:36salt was always distinct from the dirt.
2:26:38You dug it out of the earth, but it was
2:26:40unique and separate from the earth
2:26:41because it had it had curative
2:26:44properties. Whereas the dirt was
2:26:46bacteria-ridden. So, if you covered your
2:26:48meat with dirt, it's going to decompose
2:26:49faster.
2:26:50If you cover it in salt, you're going to
2:26:52cure it and it's going to preserve it.
2:26:54And that's essentially what Christians
2:26:55are. Christians, wherever they go and
2:26:58however many of them grow, stop the
2:27:00decay of the earth and reverse the
2:27:01curse.
2:27:02So.
2:27:04That sounds like a slogan.
2:27:06Reverse the curse.
2:27:08Going to be like the next Timothy
2:27:10Brindle song.
2:27:12>> [laughter]
2:27:14[clears throat]
2:27:15>> Yeah.
2:27:21Yeah, but that's uh
2:27:22it's a good starting place.
2:27:26I actually like talking about all this
2:27:27other nonsense.
2:27:29All right, yeah, we kind of got off of
2:27:30demons.
2:27:31Well, it was kind of unrelated, but
2:27:33>> [laughter]
2:27:34>> Hey, I'm I'm here for it.
2:27:37Yeah, just don't go run around the
2:27:39church talking about it like
2:27:43You got some real people that are
2:27:44hostile to it and they don't guard, so.
2:27:46>> Wait, even the LRC? Yeah.
2:27:48>> Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. I still remember
2:27:51that interaction though.
2:27:53What which one?
2:27:54He knows.
2:27:56Like one of our elders is not big into
2:27:58any of this at all. And one of them is
2:28:00kind of and the other one is kind of
2:28:02like kind of indifferent and chill to
2:28:04it, but like still it's like it's not
2:28:07it's not like a normie thing. Which I I
2:28:09told I told Brad I was like, "Hey, we're
2:28:10going to do a biblical demonology
2:28:12class." And
2:28:13um
2:28:15he was like, "Oh, that's cool." I was
2:28:16like, "They were asking for one. We're
2:28:17going to do it at my house, but I'm not
2:28:18advertising it. It's not public." And he
2:28:20was like, "Oh, yeah, cool, man." And
2:28:21it's like
2:28:22which Brad's cool. He talks about some
2:28:24of He's kind of interested in some of
2:28:25this stuff, but Brad comes out of like a
2:28:26really sort of traditional
2:28:29like he's not against it, but there's
2:28:30just there's a lot here that nobody's
2:28:32ever thought about. And if you just have
2:28:33only been in the mainstream
2:28:36you're just always going to kind of be
2:28:39you know, cuz the honestly the Enoch
2:28:42stuff comes down to is it the original
2:28:44book of Enoch that it being quoted? Do
2:28:46we have an authentic copy? That's kind
2:28:48of a convoluted topic that's confusing
2:28:50and nobody really has answers to, but
2:28:52I'll see how it's inconsistent. You
2:28:54know, with You know, if you look at the
2:28:55zoologically, people would like, "Oh,
2:28:56no, the Ethiopian Church has, you know,
2:28:59Cuz they
2:29:00>> You know, with like their Bible, they
2:29:01have like, "Oh, no, we have the like
2:29:03they we have Enoch in our Bible and
2:29:06stuff like that." I mean, like so do the
2:29:08papers, but
2:29:10thing with the Ethiopians they're like,
2:29:12"Yeah, we have like 118 but some of the
2:29:14papers are like, you know, we only have
2:29:16like 73 or 77." Yeah, no, Ethiopians
2:29:19have more. I'm talking about the the
2:29:21Eastern Church of Ethiopia.
2:29:23Uh
2:29:23yeah, they they have way more. They
2:29:25still read uh
2:29:27Enoch as like the inspired word of God.
2:29:30Yeah, and the place that it gets weird
2:29:32if you start looking at Nephilim, you
2:29:33find all these crazy videos on YouTube.
2:29:35The dispensationalists have run run
2:29:37rampant because of Matthew 24 where
2:29:40Jesus says it'll be like it was in the
2:29:41days of Noah. What was running around in
2:29:43the days of Noah? Well, you had the
2:29:44presence of the Nephilim, all right? And
2:29:46so, they think that there's going to be
2:29:48a return of the Nephilim in the end
2:29:49times. So, a lot of the modern dispys
2:29:52tie the idea of the return of the
2:29:55Nephilim. I kind of still think they're
2:29:57around in places, um growing less and
2:30:00less,
2:30:01but
2:30:03yeah, they they just gets really it just
2:30:05gets so weird. So, it's like you can
2:30:07encounter it on YouTube or you can
2:30:08encounter it
2:30:10in a controlled way in something like
2:30:12this and then make up your own mind as
2:30:13you research.
2:30:15It's like it's like telling Brad, like,
2:30:17"Well, you want to find it, just watch a
2:30:19bunch of YouTube videos."
2:30:20>> Would you say it's because like,
2:30:21honestly,
2:30:23Brad's a young pastor, just like that
2:30:26experience? No, it's not about
2:30:28experience. It's like you're either
2:30:33I think for me, I grew up with so many
2:30:35crazy demonic experiences that were real
2:30:39that I never looked at the world
2:30:41anything other than supernaturally.
2:30:43Cuz I just knew there was always a
2:30:44reality that I nobody can see that's
2:30:46like there.
2:30:48And uh
2:30:49one of I'll tell you a quick story. I I
2:30:51had a I was a young Christian,
2:30:54third grade,
2:30:56maybe fourth grade.
2:30:57Probably fourth grade.
2:30:59I was staying the night at my friend
2:31:00Matt Flom's house. His mom was a
2:31:04good writer she was a very popular
2:31:05writer, wrote political books and stuff.
2:31:07She was popular in Chicago.
2:31:09And um
2:31:11she was kind of a I don't know, she was
2:31:14she she's young. I I'm older than she is
2:31:16now, I'm sure. She was a young mom. We
2:31:19were all in the fourth grade. She'd
2:31:21already been through a divorce. His dad
2:31:22was super cool. He would always take us
2:31:24into Chicago to get hot dogs and stuff,
2:31:26you know, like really cool.
2:31:27But they lived in a really nice house in
2:31:29in the suburbs in a place called
2:31:30Bannockburn.
2:31:32And uh
2:31:34um
2:31:35Matt started telling me my dad was
2:31:36getting his master's degree in
2:31:38bioethics. He was studying under Wayne
2:31:40Grudem.
2:31:41And
2:31:42uh I I was always on seminary campus cuz
2:31:44we lived in an apartment on seminary
2:31:46campus. And all the conversations
2:31:47everywhere, all the kids and the dads
2:31:49and dinners and barbecues, it's always
2:31:50theology. It's Baptist, but whatever.
2:31:52You're just raised in that environment.
2:31:54So, I had a good foundation. And then
2:31:56Matt's talking about crazy things
2:31:57happening in this house. I'm like,
2:31:58"What's happening in your house?" I
2:31:59don't remember what he told me, but he I
2:32:01was like, "Dude, I He's like, "Would you
2:32:03spend the night at my house, dude?" Cuz
2:32:04I told him you could just tell just ask
2:32:05Jesus to fix it. Jesus will fix it. He's
2:32:07like, "Will you stay the night at my
2:32:08house, dude? And like I'll I'll I'll
2:32:10show you." And I was like, "All right,
2:32:11cool."
2:32:12Well, it and long story short, what was
2:32:13happening, I never had an experience
2:32:15there.
2:32:16But um
2:32:17Matt and his brother, he had two
2:32:194-year-old twin brothers who I think
2:32:21they were four, maybe five. They uh
2:32:24uh at in the at night cuz their mom
2:32:26would lock herself in a room and she'd
2:32:27just write. She'd like order dinner and
2:32:30then like everybody would eat or
2:32:32whatever. She would go lock herself in
2:32:33her room. Yeah. And then she he had a
2:32:35little bit of an older sister who was
2:32:36probably like 14 or something at the
2:32:38time. Matt was my age, probably like 10,
2:32:41nine or 10, something like that, and the
2:32:43twins were five. And he said that the
2:32:47sister would always spend the night at
2:32:48other people's houses,
2:32:50but um
2:32:51at at night when he and the twins were
2:32:54on their own that there would be they
2:32:56would be in their rooms and they would
2:32:58wake up and they would hear a grown man
2:33:00walking up and down the hallway. They
2:33:02had a long hallway on the second floor.
2:33:04Would walk up and down the hallway
2:33:05creaking the floorboards and it would
2:33:07freak him out. And the twins would have
2:33:08night terrors. And Matt said sometimes
2:33:10he started sleeping with his light on
2:33:12because at night they were Jewish
2:33:13family, but he had a cross on the wall
2:33:15for some reason, I don't know. I don't
2:33:17know. It was weird. I don't remember.
2:33:18So, now I have more questions than I
2:33:20knew what to ask back then.
2:33:22But the cross uh he would he would wake
2:33:24up having a night terror and the cross
2:33:26would always be flipped upside down on
2:33:28the wall, you know, normal stuff.
2:33:30And um
2:33:31he was just talking about it and I
2:33:32remember like we
2:33:34uh I spent the night and I just remember
2:33:37having this overwhelming feeling of like
2:33:39uh
2:33:40it was bad, dude. It was like, "Yeah,
2:33:41dude, this doesn't feel good." I don't
2:33:43know how I I don't know. The Holy Holy
2:33:44Spirit was just good. But I remember
2:33:46being up on the second floor and he was
2:33:49like, "I think my I think I think it's
2:33:50in my sister's room." I was like I was I
2:33:52was up there and I was like, "I know
2:33:53it's in your sister's room." I was like,
2:33:55"Let's go." He said, "We can't go in my
2:33:56sister's room." I was like, "Where's she
2:33:57at?" She's gone. Like, "Who cares? Let's
2:33:59go in your sister's room." So, we went
2:34:00into her closet and I remember standing
2:34:02around the room and I was looking. And
2:34:03this might this dude, I was a kid and
2:34:05the Lord is good, right? It doesn't work
2:34:07like this usually, right? And uh I just
2:34:10just the closet, dude. Closet was like,
2:34:13"We got to get in that closet." We
2:34:14opened the closet, dug through the
2:34:15closet, found a Ouija board. She'd been
2:34:17playing with the Ouija board with her
2:34:18friends in this house.
2:34:19And uh so, I just I was up with we
2:34:22always stayed up all night and told Matt
2:34:24like uh
2:34:27What's up? I said uh
2:34:29"Let's just pray, dude." We prayed, used
2:34:31the name of Jesus, everything was good,
2:34:32no experiences.
2:34:34Uh didn't feel anything crazy, you know,
2:34:36or oppressing. Went home. He called me
2:34:37like a night later. Said that the the
2:34:40twins had night terrors, he had a night
2:34:43terror and in all their dreams they were
2:34:46told that if they ever tried to use the
2:34:49name of Jesus ever again that he would
2:34:51kill every single one of them, right?
2:34:53So, I was like, "You got to burn that
2:34:54Ouija board." And uh
2:34:57uh so, he took his sister's Ouija board,
2:34:59he threw it into the fireplace and it
2:35:01wouldn't burn.
2:35:02Like it wouldn't burn. Were you there?
2:35:04No, he called me on the phone flipping
2:35:06out, dude. He's like, "It would not
2:35:07burn." Yeah, hindsight, maybe it was
2:35:09just made out of something that wouldn't
2:35:11burn, but I was like then they had
2:35:13another round of night terrors that
2:35:14freaked them out, you know, essentially.
2:35:16And uh and I was like, "Dude, pray over
2:35:18that Ouija board and throw it back in
2:35:19the fireplace." And he did it. Went up
2:35:21like kindling according to him.
2:35:24It burned, you know? And then he never
2:35:26had another problem, you know? He I I
2:35:28led him through the sinner's prayer and
2:35:29all the normal Baptist stuff. I don't I
2:35:30don't
2:35:31I don't know what happened to him. I
2:35:32haven't talked to him since I moved.
2:35:34Dude, I grew up in a very similar
2:35:37situation because like again,
2:35:39both my grandfathers were like, you
2:35:41know, they were ministers. [snorts]
2:35:43And then my mom was obviously she's
2:35:46still a Christian, she always was. She
2:35:48grew up in like a missionary
2:35:48[clears throat]
2:35:49Baptist again
2:35:51uh home, like very strict parents. Uh my
2:35:54dad
2:35:55similar,
2:35:56but um
2:35:58one night this is like my dad
2:36:01tells me this story when I
2:36:03I don't know, when I was old enough.
2:36:06Tells he tells me the story that like
2:36:07one night he had our school building.
2:36:10Told you my my parents, you know, they
2:36:11had their own private school. And so, he
2:36:14was he was in that school and he fell
2:36:17asleep in the office.
2:36:19And next thing you know, he has this
2:36:22like weird kind of
2:36:24this thing that he I don't know, he he
2:36:26just he says that he never has words to
2:36:28explain it.
2:36:29Like wakes him up.
2:36:31And he used to have like this radio and
2:36:34he would listen to hymns and stuff like
2:36:35that and then like sleep, you know,
2:36:37while listening and then the radio would
2:36:39turn off.
2:36:41And next thing you know, like he wakes
2:36:43up in the middle of the night, you know,
2:36:45this thing
2:36:47it's trying to strangle him to death.
2:36:49>> Yeah. He can't see it. Can't see it. And
2:36:52he can't explain it. Like but he just
2:36:54says that he saw something just once he
2:36:57started praying, he just that thing just
2:36:59ran into one of those classrooms.
2:37:02And next thing you know, just like he
2:37:04starts praying and it's In Morton there
2:37:06was a lot of occult activity in Morton,
2:37:08which is to the west of Levelland if you
2:37:10follow Highway Highway 114.
2:37:12There was a
2:37:14uh a lot of occult activity that
2:37:16happened out there. I talked to a
2:37:17minister I already knew a bunch of stuff
2:37:18that was going on out there, but I
2:37:21talked to a a guy in Lubbock that used
2:37:23to uh
2:37:25do some work out in Morton back in like
2:37:26the '90s and he said they had a travel
2:37:28they had a minister that came through
2:37:30that was going to give a presentation on
2:37:31the occult. And he pulled up into the
2:37:33gas station. There were like two Allsups
2:37:35in that town. And while he was sitting
2:37:37there in his car with his window down,
2:37:39this guy stuck a snub-nose revolver
2:37:41through the driver's side window, put
2:37:43pointed at his chest and said, "I know
2:37:44why you're here and you need to leave."
2:37:47And this minister said something like uh
2:37:49"Well, your boss is going to He doesn't
2:37:51even know where this came from." He was
2:37:52just like, "Your boss is going to have
2:37:53to ask my boss for permission to pull
2:37:56that trigger and my boss isn't going to
2:37:57give it." And the guy just looked at him
2:37:59and said
2:38:00and just put the gun back in his pocket,
2:38:02got in his car and left. And then he
2:38:04went to the church and gave his
2:38:05presentation. Well, that was edification
2:38:07of what I already knew was going on
2:38:08there. That was a godsend. And what's
2:38:10funny is like uh
2:38:12uh I uh
2:38:15I later found out another minister. I
2:38:17talked to a guy that used to be a pastor
2:38:19out there. He moved to Morton.
2:38:21And he moved into the parsonage of this
2:38:24church. There's a lot of stuff that's
2:38:25gone on in Morton, dude. It's wild.
2:38:2850 minutes away from here and it is like
2:38:31it I can Field trip? Field trip?
2:38:33>> [laughter]
2:38:35>> That's the start of a horror movie.
2:38:38Uh anyway,
2:38:39>> [snorts]
2:38:40>> you're you're liable to end up in a
2:38:41wicker man being burned alive. Anyway,
2:38:45he said that
2:38:47everybody had horrible nightmares and
2:38:49was unable to sleep and the next night
2:38:51after they they were trying to get the
2:38:53house situated and he had work to do at
2:38:54the church. That went on for a couple
2:38:56nights and then one night he woke up and
2:38:59he just couldn't sleep and he just had a
2:39:00lot of anxiety and stuff and he went
2:39:02into this spare bedroom for whatever
2:39:05reason he just laid down on like a
2:39:06blanket and he tried to he was able to
2:39:08sleep really well that night. And he
2:39:10woke up and at some point in time I
2:39:12think in the night or the next night he
2:39:16was sleeping someplace else cuz he
2:39:18wasn't sleeping in that room again but
2:39:19he was like man I got a really good
2:39:20night sleep in that room. The next night
2:39:23same thing the kids had nightmares.
2:39:26He wasn't able to sleep. He walked into
2:39:27the kitchen and all he described is I
2:39:30don't know that I can really describe it
2:39:31but it was like this black smoke just
2:39:34like ran out of the kitchen you know and
2:39:36he said then I realized it was there's
2:39:38something demonic going on. I said
2:39:39prayed over his house everybody got a
2:39:41good night sleep. I mean he's just his
2:39:42authority he wasn't scared. And
2:39:44everybody got a good night sleep they
2:39:45didn't have any more problems but he
2:39:47started thinking at that point why did I
2:39:48get such a good night sleep in that
2:39:50room. He went in there and all their
2:39:51scriptures and wall hangings and stuff
2:39:53that they hadn't hung up in the house
2:39:54yet were all out like laying on the
2:39:56walls and stuff and it's just open
2:39:59exposed scripture everywhere right and
2:40:02he was like
2:40:03that's why I got a good night sleep in
2:40:05that room. Another story my dad told me
2:40:08so
2:40:09the the town we live in was actually
2:40:12original originally
2:40:14was like a tribute the name of the city
2:40:17is called Jacobabad
2:40:19and obviously Jacob is a Christian name
2:40:22right? It's a biblical name and so it
2:40:25was the there was this there was this
2:40:28flood that was about to come and General
2:40:31John Jacob off I think he was
2:40:34a general in the Scottish army when the
2:40:36when the English and the Scots basically
2:40:40controlled that whole whole region.
2:40:43What he did was he made like a little
2:40:45dam that prevented that whole land that
2:40:49whole town to flood that prevented from
2:40:52all that flooding. So
2:40:55these people they basically the name of
2:40:57that town was something else it was like
2:40:59a Muslim name or whatever. But then they
2:41:02they as a tribute they named it after
2:41:05him so Jacobabad Abad just means in in
2:41:08in Urdu it just means to live long.
2:41:11>> [snorts]
2:41:11>> So it means Jacob live long you know.
2:41:14And then after the split off India
2:41:17Pakistan and then the English the Brits
2:41:20leave
2:41:21you have you know you have the Pakistani
2:41:23government you have the Sharia law and
2:41:25all that stuff.
2:41:27They tried to change the name of that
2:41:29town and obviously John Jacob was long
2:41:32dead right and
2:41:34um
2:41:35he used to ride on a horse his um
2:41:40his grave is still right there and my
2:41:43uncle my grand both my grandparents
2:41:47are buried right next to his grave and
2:41:50even his horse's grave is there. So
2:41:54a lot of people all these like you know
2:41:56these governors and
2:41:58people that tried to change the name of
2:42:00that town
2:42:01they've my dad told me that they've had
2:42:04like encounters where at night their
2:42:07beds would shake.
2:42:08If they were trying to you know
2:42:11um kind of like
2:42:14change the name of the town their beds
2:42:17would shake.
2:42:18And then there's so many testimonials
2:42:20around like the whole town that at night
2:42:24they would see just this horse and a guy
2:42:27on a horse just
2:42:29you know just riding quietly through the
2:42:31through the town.
2:42:32It's crazy. [laughter] Dude we dealt
2:42:34with a kid one time his dad bought a
2:42:35thrift bought a bed off of
2:42:38out of like like a
2:42:39it was a thrift store I think he just
2:42:41like an ad in the paper or whatever
2:42:42picked it up at this house bought home.
2:42:44And this kid woke up the next morning
2:42:46and was like he said how did you sleep
2:42:48kiddo and he was like I don't know. He
2:42:50said I didn't sleep good. He was like
2:42:51why not? Scary hands you know a young
2:42:53kid. He was like scary hands? He was
2:42:56like scary hands.
2:42:58Anyway problems kept persisting with
2:42:59this bed and so he reached out to one of
2:43:01my buddies and he was like what do I do?
2:43:03And this kid was talking about how at
2:43:05night hands would grab him.
2:43:08And the kid started getting scared every
2:43:11night to go to bed so the dad went and
2:43:13prayed over the bed and never had a
2:43:15problem with scary hands again. Kid
2:43:16didn't know anything. You know
2:43:19that happens. I still I I messed with so
2:43:21much stuff
2:43:22bro like so much stuff in and out of
2:43:26things like I still have nightmares
2:43:27sometimes where I know for a fact it's
2:43:29the closest thing to sleep paralysis
2:43:31I've ever had. Doesn't happen very often
2:43:33maybe once every couple years now or
2:43:35something. I don't know one of my
2:43:38friends is like how why do you think it
2:43:39was in your room? I don't know but I
2:43:41will have I always it always starts off
2:43:43like this dude.
2:43:44I have a uh in my dream I'm like walking
2:43:49down a sidewalk or
2:43:52I'm somewhere and somebody yells from
2:43:53the front door of a house we need your
2:43:55help it's here or something like that.
2:43:57And so I run in I just know it's demonic
2:43:59and I run into the house to help and the
2:44:02last one I had was really messed up cuz
2:44:04it was in it was not in not in my house
2:44:07it was like in a different house that we
2:44:09all lived in like a it was like a house
2:44:11I used to live in but now my family
2:44:13lived in this house it was like we never
2:44:14lived there as a family you know.
2:44:16And uh
2:44:18in this dream I've got quite a few but
2:44:20in this dream this is the last one I had
2:44:22I was in the front room and I felt it
2:44:25and they were like it's here and I was
2:44:26like it is here and I got really scared
2:44:28like really scared. And that pity or
2:44:31feeling oppressive feeling and then all
2:44:34of a sudden Audrey just gets like just
2:44:37drug down the hall. She's like gone and
2:44:39then Hope drug this direction I know
2:44:41it's demonic and then as soon as I start
2:44:43to rebuke in the name of Jesus I can't
2:44:45speak like I'm completely silent and
2:44:47then I just start panicking in the dream
2:44:49and then it feels like you're just
2:44:51literally trying to like run through
2:44:53water like you're in a like 6 ft of
2:44:55water so like you're all your movements
2:44:57are slower and I was completely hindered
2:44:59in my dream from doing anything that I
2:45:01needed to do. And I just remember
2:45:03thinking like it's one.
2:45:05And then I woke up and it felt like
2:45:08something was in my room dude. It just
2:45:10felt so oppressive and I remember I just
2:45:12like this is what happens in the dream
2:45:15it always has like more power. But then
2:45:17I wake up and immediately realize what's
2:45:19going on and I'm so jaded at this point
2:45:22like it's like Martin Luther throwing
2:45:23the inkwell. I wake up and I'm like it's
2:45:26a dream and I just like a madman if Hope
2:45:29was in the room that night instead of
2:45:31sleeping on the couch like she would
2:45:32have thought I was crazy cuz I wake up
2:45:34and I just feel this overwhelming
2:45:36demonic presence it feels like. I don't
2:45:38know if it's just the tension of the
2:45:39dream but I'm pretty sure something's in
2:45:41the room with me that room.
2:45:44And I'm laying and I look at my watch
2:45:45and it's like it's like 2:40 in the
2:45:47morning and I was like
2:45:50what did you think that was going to
2:45:51work? When does this ever work? And I
2:45:53started laughing like a maniac right and
2:45:55I was like in the name of Jesus get out
2:45:57of my room. And I was like you have no
2:46:00place here and immediately dude it was
2:46:03just gone. It was just gone and I rolled
2:46:06over and just went back to sleep.
2:46:08Hey um
2:46:10But it's like I don't know dude you mess
2:46:11with enough stuff sometimes you're just
2:46:13a target you know what I mean? You know
2:46:15what
2:46:16something very similar happened to me I
2:46:18think it was like November or end of
2:46:21November December I don't know but it
2:46:24was it was very
2:46:25it wasn't a dream though it was very
2:46:28similar to like I'm I wake up around
2:46:31like late
2:46:33around 2:50-ish not going to lie around
2:46:35near that three. Do you believe in like
2:46:37this witching hour? It happens a lot
2:46:39dude. I don't know what it's about. I
2:46:41mean I don't I don't believe in all the
2:46:43lore and legends of it but
2:46:46I think they like to be pretty active at
2:46:48that time. But you know what happened
2:46:50was so in my room I usually have this
2:46:52little ball light you know right next to
2:46:55my drum kit
2:46:57and I keep that on always and so it
2:47:00casts a shadow from my drum kit to my
2:47:02bed and then you know where that
2:47:04computer is that my desk like all of
2:47:07that area is dark.
2:47:09And I kept feeling like I just wake up
2:47:12you know and then I'm like
2:47:14what is there?
2:47:16And it was it was just weird but But did
2:47:19it feel like there was a chill? There
2:47:21was there was like this oppression
2:47:23because
2:47:25I don't know it was maybe just fear but
2:47:28I got hold and I started praying and I
2:47:32think I told you this and I just put on
2:47:35that sermon by uh
2:47:37I think Albert Mohler.
2:47:39by
2:47:42uh it's the the man on the cross you
2:47:45know it's like uh it's the the man on
2:47:47the cross told me that I could come that
2:47:50that that sermon. And you know it's just
2:47:54Christ and him crucified. Next thing you
2:47:57know dude I just feel this warmth. Yeah.
2:48:00You know
2:48:01>> [laughter]
2:48:01>> don't you know and something I end up
2:48:03doing is like I get kind of antagonistic
2:48:05sometimes in situations because I'm like
2:48:08cuz I've been in a lot of weird
2:48:09situations where when I know something
2:48:12is there you know I'm like you know I'll
2:48:14just like start talking to it. I'll be
2:48:16like you know one of these days I'm
2:48:19going to be in heaven enjoying eternal
2:48:21felicity.
2:48:23>> [laughter]
2:48:24>> You're going to be Luther card No
2:48:26seriously and I'll be like you're going
2:48:28to be burning in hell.
2:48:30Something you've never experienced and
2:48:32the only thing you have to look forward
2:48:34to and nobody's ever going to remember
2:48:36your name.
2:48:37And and I was like, remember I'm
2:48:39forgiven and you don't have a shot. And
2:48:42I'm telling you there's something about
2:48:46not being scared. Yeah.
2:48:48>> Like when I wake up I'm not scared. I
2:48:50felt that oppression. Like when I wake
2:48:52up out of those dreams, I'm like I'm I
2:48:54always see I can my mouth is like I
2:48:56don't suffer from sleep paralysis, I
2:48:58never have, but my mouth is like trying
2:49:00to say words cuz I'm trying so hard in
2:49:02my dream and I wake up and I sound like
2:49:04I'm
2:49:06You know, cuz I'm trying so hard to say
2:49:09your name. And then I'm like I'm fully
2:49:11awake and I'm like, aw, I'm back, baby.
2:49:13Like you might have had a little power
2:49:14in that dream, but you don't have any
2:49:16power here. You know, like as soon as I
2:49:18open my eyes and realize what's going
2:49:19on, I'm like it's almost like a smile on
2:49:22my face, dude. I'm like, haha. Haha.
2:49:25Yeah, nice try. Nice try, dude. What are
2:49:29we doing? What do you think is going to
2:49:31work this time?
2:49:32>> It's just this like sudden, you know,
2:49:34part of like if any man may boast, let
2:49:37him boast in the Lord. Yeah, that's
2:49:39exactly right. It's not my part. Yeah.
2:49:40But my friend Tom, I told my friend Tom,
2:49:42he's like, why do you think he was in
2:49:43your room, dude?
2:49:45What have you done?
2:49:46>> [laughter]
2:49:47>> He's like, what have you done?
2:49:49He's like, what have you been doing?
2:49:52Nothing, dude. I don't know. You know
2:49:53how it is.
2:49:55Did I ever tell you that exorcism story
2:49:57of that weird Muslim chick Mhm. that
2:50:00came to our church in Pakistan? Yeah. Um
2:50:03man, I was
2:50:05>> [snorts]
2:50:05>> I was very young. I was like at least
2:50:096 7.
2:50:11But um 6 7 6 7
2:50:14>> [laughter]
2:50:15>> 6 7
2:50:17Audrey hates 6 7.
2:50:20She hates it.
2:50:22Look at her.
2:50:23Look at her.
2:50:29>> [laughter]
2:50:29>> Anyways Every time any of those numbers
2:50:31come up in AR, I'm just like
2:50:36She wanted to use She gets her math
2:50:37problems wrong now.
2:50:38>> [laughter]
2:50:39>> She won't write it. She won't write it.
2:50:42I I need to design some homework for
2:50:44her, dude, where every answer is 6 7.
2:50:486 7 6 7 6 7
2:50:516
2:50:528
2:50:56>> [laughter]
2:50:57>> Yeah, so um we had this 8 squared plus 3
2:51:02We had this
2:51:04uh American dude come in and my dad met
2:51:07him at an at the American embassy
2:51:10because my dad was friends with the
2:51:11ambassador.
2:51:12And I don't know how, but
2:51:16now that I think about it, my dad told
2:51:18me this later he found out that he was
2:51:20he was basically a part of Blackwater.
2:51:22And he was there as like a kind of
2:51:25he was under diplomatic immunity, but he
2:51:27was
2:51:28he was like a spy
2:51:30because like I told you, Jacobabad has
2:51:33one of the most leading air force bases
2:51:36in that region.
2:51:38Um
2:51:39and America had hold of that
2:51:41airbase when all this war on terrorism
2:51:44was going on. It was like a dedicated
2:51:46F-16 base.
2:51:47So anyways, um he was there. He was a
2:51:49Christian. His name was David. Um
2:51:52and
2:51:54I was I was the guy who would, you know,
2:51:56like I was
2:51:58the person who would always take
2:51:59offerings. So we had like this offering
2:52:01bucket and then I would go around, you
2:52:03know, like taking offering and you know,
2:52:04how like in traditional churches and
2:52:06stuff. So
2:52:08I don't It's just a normal Sunday, you
2:52:09know, I'm
2:52:11I'm really young. I have no clue what's
2:52:13happening. And then out of nowhere
2:52:16I've done taking all the offering, you
2:52:19know, I go back. I'm about to, you know,
2:52:21put it near the near the pulpit
2:52:24and I just see this girl out of nowhere
2:52:28just like all her body curled up like
2:52:30this and she's screaming. She is
2:52:33screaming and we have the whole worship
2:52:35band. We're just singing. Everybody else
2:52:37is singing.
2:52:39And dude, I never forget those screams.
2:52:41It was the loudest screams I have ever
2:52:44heard in my whole life. And it was So
2:52:46that was the first time they brought her
2:52:48[clears throat]
2:52:49there and then she was like screaming
2:52:51and all that stuff.
2:52:53And then they they brought her again
2:52:57another time and it was I think a bigger
2:52:59event. It wasn't Sunday service. It was
2:53:01a bigger event. And I think and then
2:53:05same thing uh
2:53:07she was screaming. She was in the middle
2:53:09of the sanctuary. And then out of
2:53:11nowhere
2:53:12I
2:53:13you know, we we finished the we finished
2:53:15like the service itself and then some of
2:53:18these elders and this David guy with my
2:53:20dad, they they take her to a room
2:53:23and they did their exorcism and it's
2:53:25just it's
2:53:27I was that young and I got like, you
2:53:29know Syrup.
2:53:30>> [laughter]
2:53:32>> So and then like my eyes towards all of
2:53:35this, it just all became, you know, like
2:53:37hits you at a younger age becomes
2:53:40reality. Yeah. And So I'm saying did you
2:53:43have another experiences at a young age
2:53:44like that and then you just always see
2:53:46the world different?
2:53:47>> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
2:53:50Most of this stuff like with Brad and
2:53:52stuff, he's just never ever looked into
2:53:54it. It's just not something he's done. I
2:53:55I understand. Yeah.
2:53:56>> You know, it's like
2:53:58But it's it's not like it's it's But
2:53:59when you get into the niche arguments
2:54:01and stuff about the Nephilim and all of
2:54:03that, it's
2:54:05you know, he's just
2:54:07Nobody really understands the
2:54:08antediluvian world.
2:54:10>> Absolutely. But I don't know. That's why
2:54:14we do what we do.
2:54:18And there was in their synagogue a man
2:54:19with an unclean spirit and he cried out,
2:54:21saying, "Let us alone. What have we to
2:54:24do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth?
2:54:26Art thou come to destroy us?
2:54:28I know thee who thou art, the holy one
2:54:30of God."
2:54:31And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Hold thy
2:54:33peace
2:54:34and come out of him."
2:54:37And when the unclean spirit [music] had
2:54:38torn him and cried with a loud voice, he
2:54:41came out of him.
2:54:43And they were all amazed, insomuch that
2:54:45they questioned [music] among
2:54:45themselves, saying,
2:54:47"What thing is this?
2:54:49What new doctrine [music] is this?
2:54:52For with authority commandeth he even
2:54:54the unclean spirits and they do obey
2:54:57[music] him."

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