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Beyond the AI hype: How TatvaCare is solving India’s healthcare problem — Transcript

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0:00So when we actually started building
0:01this out then we realized that one
0:03sizefits-all of how you build technology
0:06is not going to work with the doctor
0:07community. Doctors do not want
0:10technology for larger ecosystem. That's
0:13fine if it happens great. Doctors use
0:15they want technology which will give
0:17measurable value to them. So technology
0:19went to the doctor rather than doctors
0:21going to technology. Can we provide
0:23better patient care? Can the patient get
0:26continuous care by which uh they have
0:29better health outcomes? [music]
0:35Hello and welcome to a very special
0:36podcast series unusual suspects. I'm
0:39your host Korov Chowri. This is a series
0:42about unraveling stories of
0:43entrepreneurs, investors, professionals
0:46and of course philanthropists who are
0:48disruptors yet not in your face. The
0:52disruptions have consistently delivered
0:54on the purpose and the mission they've
0:56embarked on. Their values are as strong
0:58as the mission. Unusual suspect streams
1:00on earshot. Spotify.com, Apple Podcast,
1:04YouTube, moneycontrol.com,
1:07and a host of other podcast streaming
1:09platforms and directories.
1:12On this episode, we shall turn the lens
1:14on something that is triggering rapid
1:17changes and also bringing in significant
1:20efficiencies. We will investigate and
1:24examine the role of AI in practice. In a
1:28country like India, AI can help bridge
1:32gaps in health care infrastructure,
1:35extend access to un underserved areas,
1:39uh support early diagnosis, customized
1:43treatments at scale, which is very
1:45important for a country like India and
1:47the population that we have. And more
1:51importantly, it can actually make health
1:53care very very affordable and of course
1:56accessible.
1:58But that said, realizing this potential
2:01will depend on many things. It's it's
2:04certainly not like switching on an
2:07electric bulb and switching it off when
2:09required. There are many aspects to it.
2:11There are many layers to it. Tatwalk Air
2:14was founded in 2020 with a vision to
2:16streamline Indian healthcare using
2:19technology.
2:21What began as a cloud electronic medical
2:24record keeping or cloud EMR for general
2:27practitioners
2:29soon evolved into an AI powered
2:31ecosystem spanning clinical practice,
2:34patient engagement, pharma partnerships
2:38and real world evidence generation.
2:43Tattooare CEO Manoj Balaji is our guest
2:45today on the show. He has over 14 years
2:48of experience across healthcare, health
2:50insurance, consumer internet and IT
2:54sectors spanning both B2B and B2C
2:58businesses. Prior to Tatwa, Manoj held
3:01leadership roles at India's digital
3:04healthcare platform Medibbody.
3:07He has also led growth at Neestoway
3:09Technologies and held roles at Reliance
3:13Health Ventures and Infosys.
3:17With him, we'll explore the evolving
3:19capabilities of AI, its real world
3:22applications and extent to which it is
3:24delivering on its promise to transform
3:27healthcare. Welcome to the show, Mano.
3:29Delighted to have you.
3:30>> No, thank you. Uh, thanks Gorov for
3:32having me. A pleasure to be here. you
3:35know let's start off with something very
3:36basic fundamental uh just to set the
3:39context uh what was the larger health
3:42care problem you wanted to solve uh when
3:44you started Datwa care and subsequently
3:48how has that problem evolved for you
3:50over the years and you know how has also
3:52the solutions evolved manoj
3:53>> no thanks thanks go for asking that and
3:56you know uh it's it's very interesting
3:58in terms of how this has panned about uh
4:01when I joined Tatwakare after having
4:04uh significant experience in different
4:07facets in the healthcare ecosystem like
4:09you already mentioned I was part of
4:10manybody is one of the largest health
4:13tech aggregators in the country managing
4:15corporate or insurebacked benefits um I
4:18was part of many's group which was one
4:20of the largest TPAs in the country uh
4:23when I joined Tatwager I think having
4:25experienced all of this one of the
4:27important pieces which not just me but
4:30everyone who's been associated in the
4:32healthcare industry have understood
4:34uh that there is significant um uh
4:38aspects of healthcare chain healthcare
4:40value system is still working in silos
4:43and there is a chain which doesn't
4:45continuously talk to each other right
4:49like you rightly said the initial
4:50thought process was since we started in
4:522020 it was just uh just postcoid and uh
4:56you know the government came up with
4:58their Aayish manhad digital mission they
5:00just embarked on it back then so while
5:02the init initial thought process was
5:04that we need to be kind of um riding the
5:06wave uh to kind of transform the Indian
5:10healthcare landscape landscape in terms
5:12of what technology can do. So while it
5:15started off with saying hey you know
5:16what we need to be uh we need to
5:19participate and kind of uh uh transform
5:22the digital healthcare
5:25uh adoption in the country. But when we
5:27started TWAK, we realized that look um
5:31these systems talking in silos is not
5:34going to always benefit in fact it is
5:37not going to benefit all all of the
5:38stakeholders be the doctors or providers
5:41when I say providers it's hospitals or
5:43clinics or for patient for that matter
5:45because today uh we live in an era where
5:48uh you know for every aspect not just
5:51healthcare but for every aspect of life
5:53and various aspects you need uh
5:56connected
5:57ecosystem is what which works and that
5:59holds true in in case of healthcare as
6:01well right from uh patients seeking
6:05any access of healthcare be it
6:07consultation or diagnostics or anything
6:09or for example doctors who are actually
6:12treating patients from a clinical care
6:14perspective uh all of them are looking
6:17uh from a perspective and their main
6:18objective is can we provide better
6:20patient care can the patient get
6:24continuous care by which uh they have
6:26better health outcomes. So at Tatwalkare
6:29we decided that we just don't want to
6:32digitize healthcare. We want to kind of
6:34create a connected healthcare ecosystem
6:36which connects from providers to
6:38patients to payers. Payers at the end of
6:40the day are when I say payers it's
6:43corporates or insurers they have a
6:44significant play in the whole economic
6:46model of healthcare. So our idea was
6:48saying we will build uh products and
6:51services which will uh have a larger
6:53impact in terms of creating an
6:55integrated health ecosystem. So that's
6:57how we kind of thought about getting
6:59about how we built various products
7:00which we have. So
7:03>> you know Manoj you talked about patients
7:07doctors and providers and the thing
7:09about Indian healthcare is that it's
7:12it's a highly fragmented [snorts]
7:15landscape. It's across patients,
7:17doctors, providers and the related
7:18universe. How do you see technology
7:21helping connect us different parts of
7:23the ecosystem? Because uh they sometimes
7:27you get the feeling that different
7:29fragments are working in silos and are
7:32not talking to each other and technology
7:33probably could be that bridge. So isn't
7:35that isn't that something that uh you
7:37know tatquer is actually trying to solve
7:39fundamentally?
7:40>> No, bang on. I think um you know bang on
7:43in terms of um you know what I mentioned
7:45and you know this particular question is
7:48also on similar lines um to be honest uh
7:53in healthcare technology is already
7:55there uh right uh in in the last let's
7:59say about 10 years in the last decade or
8:02so uh what we have seen is healthcare
8:05does not lack I mean we don't lack India
8:08as a country do not lack healthcare
8:09capabilities or healthcare touch points
8:11right like you spoke about I think what
8:14what is more important is how does the
8:17various fragments and since it is fairly
8:19fragmented how do they talk to each
8:20other for example and I was alluding to
8:23some uh some of these illustration in my
8:25previous uh uh comment uh today access
8:30to care let's say let's start the
8:32journey from patient but we're talking
8:34about patient looking for access to care
8:37I think by and large
8:39there are enough companies there are
8:41enough entities there are enough
8:43technological advancements which has
8:44been already uh progressed by which
8:47patient can access via technology they
8:50can access whether they want to do a
8:52consultation they want to book a
8:53diagnostic test or they want to order
8:55medicines I think that access is
8:57available uh to a large extent so what
9:00I'm trying to say is that there is
9:03progress which has happened in
9:05healthcare by which this has become now
9:07sort of table stakes right now when when
9:10they actually seek access and the care
9:12needs to be provided. One of the biggest
9:14issues in healthcare is what what
9:16happens from a provider side. When I say
9:18provider, it's either a hospital or a
9:21doctor for that matter. Right.
9:22>> Right.
9:22>> Uh what continues to happen that while
9:25we have and there is enough published
9:29information about a lack of doctors to
9:31the population which needs to be
9:33serviced. uh I think what technology can
9:36actually do is
9:38further expand access and information
9:40about the patients. What I mean by that
9:42is let's say today doctors serve x
9:45number of patients with the help of
9:47technology.
9:49Two things they can do. One they can
9:52provide more time for clinical care for
9:54the patient because technology can take
9:56care of the administrative burden and
9:58the efficiency which it can bring about.
10:01Second,
10:03the the providers be doctors or
10:05hospitals, they have enough information
10:07about the patients history or medical
10:10history or what they're looking for so
10:12that they can provide right kind of
10:13care. So one, it definitely solves for
10:17let's say connected uh information about
10:20uh access and and patient.
10:23>> Secondly,
10:24continuum of care. Today for example if
10:27someone is diabetic
10:30it doesn't end with just one
10:31consultation right someone actually goes
10:34to an endocrinologist or a internal
10:36medicine doctor and someone is diabetic
10:38uh the journey starts doctor
10:40consultation is just one part of it
10:42their journey starts from there on that
10:44they need continuous medication they
10:46need uh continuous care uh uh adherance
10:49to uh their medication they need to get
10:51diagnostic tests done they need to
10:53follow up with the doctors for further
10:56uh discussions in about their treatment
10:58plan. So what I mean by that is
11:00technology today uh can solve for
11:03continuous um engagement or continuous
11:06care with the patient. Uh today that
11:09technologies uh is kind of solving for
11:12that. There are various facets which is
11:13being built. Uh adherence and adoption
11:16of it is kind of uh in process. So some
11:19of these pieces is obviously going to
11:22add a significant value in terms of how
11:25the healthcare outcomes can can be
11:27derived. And last but not the least, I
11:30think we're also, you know, entering a
11:33stage or era in in healthcare where
11:36we're not only just talking about access
11:38to healthcare, but we are also talking
11:40about proactive care and health
11:42outcomes. So I think technology can help
11:44um you know uh look into proactive care
11:47element for patients especially if if
11:49there is data of patient which is of
11:51patients which is available. uh people
11:53who are potentially at a medium or high
11:56risk can can AI for example flag the
11:58risk to the providers or caregivers for
12:00example to for them to make right and
12:03meaningful interventions for the
12:05patients so that necessary can care be
12:07care can be given which would obviously
12:09lead to a more proactive care and uh you
12:13know improve health outcomes. So yeah
12:15got up
12:16>> you know manojwalkare offers a platform
12:19for doctors through twa practice
12:22>> tell me something when you went went
12:25about building this uh and this is
12:28essentially for doctors what were the
12:30lessons that you learned regarding the
12:32gaps in India's healthare system
12:35>> I think this is one of my favorite
12:37questions if I if I may say so whenever
12:39and this is not the first time I'm being
12:40asked this question um the reason is
12:44like like we spoke about our journey and
12:47uh we kind of uh started um you know
12:50embarking on the whole digitization of
12:52healthcare uh piece starting with the
12:54EMRs and uh working with doctors.
12:57Everyone told us that doctors will not
13:00adopt technology and we all agree that
13:03doctors are a very important uh cog in
13:06the wheel in healthcare delivery. uh but
13:08yet uh you know the the way they kind of
13:11function is also uh uh a style of their
13:15own uh in terms of how they provide
13:17care, how they work it out etc. So um we
13:21were told that they will not adopt. Now
13:23in our u way we were thinking about it
13:26is saying government is coming up with
13:28Aayish man digital mission the objective
13:30is for transformation digital
13:32transformation of healthcare now if
13:34doctors won't do it then this is not
13:36going to happen. How is that? You know
13:37it is very very contradicting thought
13:40process right? But when we actually went
13:42on ground actually we saw that there are
13:44different cohorts of doctors. One fairly
13:48young or you know middle uh with uh you
13:52know middle middle age sort of
13:55experienced set of doctors. There are
13:57some who are kind of have been there for
13:59fairly long period of time.
14:01uh some of them are very you know okay
14:04and very open to adopt technology for
14:06better care
14:08uh better capacity management able to
14:11kind of manage patients more number of
14:14patients and are able to kind of parse
14:16the information which is available and
14:19there are cohorts of doctor who said I'm
14:21going to continue writing with you know
14:23writing prescriptions on pen and paper
14:25and there are some who say that you know
14:27give me something where I just speak and
14:29everything is available so when we
14:31actually started building this out. Then
14:32we realized that one sizefits-all of how
14:35you build technology is not going to
14:37work with the doctor community. What
14:40what is really needed is something to
14:42the effect of multimodal solutions
14:44wherein a digital point and click which
14:46is basically you have a platform or an
14:48app where they can actually um you know
14:50put in all give all the input and you
14:53know use the platform for that.
14:55Secondly, uh OCR techniques had kind of
14:59come about in the last five, six, seven
15:01years, right? Which when I say OCR,
15:03basically it can uh transcribe anything
15:05which is written into digital output. So
15:08we actually build the OCR technique as
15:11well. So that people who are actually
15:12the doctors who are actually writing so
15:15their record is kind of getting
15:17digitized. The third piece in the last
15:19few years it has become more uh
15:21prominent is uh the use of AI where
15:24voice AI models have kind of improved a
15:27lot with the advent of you know advanced
15:29LLMs and so on and so forth. So that
15:31doctor while talking to the patient uh
15:34you know the ambient whatever discussion
15:36has h is happens between the doctor and
15:39the patient can be scribed by by AI and
15:41technology and that can give digital
15:43output. So
15:45the point is that the our biggest
15:48learning has been that we doctors do not
15:52want technology for larger ecosystem.
15:55That's fine if it happens great. Doctors
15:57use they want technology which will give
15:59measurable value to them. So we needed
16:01to kind of build something which will
16:04work for them. So technology went to the
16:06doctor rather than doctors going to
16:08technology. So I think our biggest
16:10learning has been that we have to build
16:11something which which will help solve
16:14the problem and which people can kind of
16:16adopt better uh and not add complexity
16:19to their existing lives or ways of how
16:22they practice. So got
16:24>> you know Manoj with good flip you moved
16:26closer to the patient that is something
16:28that you know it's it's a remarkable uh
16:32uh you know feature uh and also a build
16:35uh particularly it's true in the case of
16:38chronic and metabolic health uh what did
16:40you learn about what happens between a
16:42doctor's consultation and a patient's
16:45everyday health journey I'm asking this
16:47question because experience our own
16:49individual experience tell we go and
16:50meet the patient we go and meet the If
16:53we are a patient and the doctor gives us
16:55the advice, the consultation happens and
16:57everything uh moves after that there is
17:01a gap between the doctor's consultations
17:03and the patients everyday health
17:04journey. How is good flip actually
17:06helping solve that gap? Manoji.
17:08>> Yeah. Yeah. Um very interesting question
17:12Gorov. I think um you know what what you
17:15just said not many people realize this
17:20the fact that a doctor consultation can
17:22last for 15 20 minutes or so right where
17:26a health care uh is kind of delivered
17:29right but most of the health outcomes
17:33actually
17:35happens when they are at home when the
17:37patients are at home but they are
17:38supposed to follow various treatment
17:41protocol which doctor advises
17:43Now we have seen in India and maybe this
17:46holds good across the world as well. uh
17:48I would definitely think so is the fact
17:50that once the patient has gone out of
17:52doctor's uh cabin many a times they are
17:55on their own doctors have prescribed
17:56something they just have to follow
17:58whether the patient follow or not that
18:00will actually determine whether the
18:02patient will get better and they will
18:04have the right outcomes which they're
18:05looking at right
18:06>> now what technology and uh has done and
18:09that's the whole core of what good flip
18:12was trying to solve is one
18:16can we have which I spoke about earlier
18:18as Well, in terms of how continuous
18:20patient uh care can be delivered so that
18:23let's say a doctor has prescribed
18:25something and doctor has asked a certain
18:27treatment plan. Can the patient know
18:30what all they're supposed to do? Here's
18:33the test which you're supposed to do.
18:34Can you actually do it from one platform
18:36which is what good flip is? Here's
18:38here's the diet and for example if
18:40someone is diabetic or hypertensive or
18:42obese for that matter uh can they follow
18:45a certain uh diet and fitness protocols?
18:47Here's the platform which which it can
18:49kind of offer. Here's what while during
18:52the course of the treatment you kind of
18:53experience certain symptoms for example
18:55who do they reach out to can we can the
18:57patient access on the same app which the
19:00information is available on the other
19:01side with the doctor so that doctor can
19:02actually help the patient saying if
19:04you're experiencing certain side effects
19:06here's what you can do right so
19:08>> all in all the idea of good flip uh is
19:12that all of the entire continuous
19:15patient care is available on one
19:18platform and and whatever patient
19:20patient do on the platform or when
19:22they're at home what they follow. The
19:25entire adherence process is actually
19:28visible to the same doctor who they've
19:30gone to. So that it it essentially is
19:33technology is enabling remote care by
19:35which you're ensuring that both doctor
19:38patient uh doctor patient relationship
19:41is is well entrenched in terms of the
19:44overall objective of outcome of care.
19:46Now just last point on this thread which
19:48I wanted to make is um with respect to
19:53uh good flip uh one of the important
19:55pieces which we wanted to ensure is
19:59adherence to all of this is an important
20:02aspect from a patient perspective. So
20:04while we have look technology can solve
20:06multiple things like I mentioned earlier
20:08healthcare has touch points Indian
20:10healthcare has capabilities product and
20:12tech is also not a challenge the biggest
20:15issue is patient adherence we also
20:18believe that in healthcare technology
20:21plus human when I say human it is people
20:24like clinicians doctors um you know
20:27coaches for example nutrition go coaches
20:30or lifestyle coaches or um you know uh
20:33cognitive behavior therapists who
20:35actually work with the patient to ensure
20:37they're able to kind of help them in
20:39their journey uh to support them in
20:41their adherence process because adoption
20:44and adherence is what eventually going
20:46to drive healthcare outcomes. So that's
20:47what we believe good flip is here to
20:50solve. uh and and yeah go off
20:53>> you know healthcare today is largely
20:55episodic and we we all of us go and see
20:58a doctor only when we fall ill or
21:00there's some kind of symptom or we have
21:02certain kind of a discomfort and the
21:04doctor gives us a prescription or a test
21:07or a diagnostic uh you know road map and
21:10we carry that out and then
21:14generally the system loses sight of all
21:16of us. uh what would it take to build a
21:19genuinely continuous model of care on
21:24>> yeah um so Gorov I think I you know
21:27alluded to this particular fact of how
21:30we're building the connected care
21:31ecosystem now
21:33>> an important element of this whole piece
21:37is at the end of the day today for
21:40example and and to touch upon the fact
21:42that how grave the problem is while you
21:46know um The availability of doctors I
21:49spoke about obviously it is always a
21:51challenge. Today India is the diabetic
21:54capital of the world. More than 200
21:55million plus of the population are
21:58actually either diabetic or
21:59pre-diabetic. There is 40% 20 or 40%
22:03people who have obesity or fatty liver
22:05related disorders. The point I'm trying
22:07to make is the fact that while access
22:11technology all of that and continuous
22:14engagement let's say that gets solved as
22:16well. I think what needs to also help
22:18the cost by which for this model needs
22:21to work is the whole economic model of
22:23healthcare today. Uh and I'll give you
22:26an example of you would have heard and
22:28the world is aware of how in the west
22:30especially in the US Kaiser permanent as
22:33a model has been a fairly successful
22:35model. One of the reason for that
22:37success is about the fact that both care
22:41delivery as well as uh the care
22:45financing is done by the same larger
22:48umbrella which means both financing and
22:50outcomes of care is under the same
22:52umbrella. So their incentives are
22:54aligned in terms of how preventive
22:56healthcare needs to be built, how
22:58outcomes of care needs to be built so
22:59that costs of care can be managed etc.
23:03uh in India today uh I think the
23:06economic model of care is improving uh
23:09in the sense that uh today obviously
23:12corporates provide uh various benefits
23:14to ensure there is preventive healthcare
23:16built in for their employees uh so that
23:18uh you know um people are proactively
23:20looking at their health so that there is
23:22less absentism more productivity and so
23:24on and so forth. Insurance companies are
23:26coming up with benefits of care and uh
23:29underwriting risks in such a way that
23:31more awareness is being built or more
23:34benefits are available for policy
23:36holders for different aspects of their
23:38care elements and their objective is can
23:40we ensure more necessary steps are taken
23:44so that the overall cost of care can be
23:46managed. a Kaiser permanente kind of a
23:48model in India is a lot of people have a
23:50wishful thinking about uh and we're kind
23:53of lot of us are making an attempt
23:54towards because it is one part of the
23:56overall connected care so uh so I
23:59believe uh genuinely for a model to work
24:03that overall incentives uh uh or
24:07willingness for uh various stakeholders
24:10in terms of patient care adherence to
24:13outcome needs to be needs to be in sync
24:16for the model to work work most
24:18successfully. Yeah. Part of
24:19>> you know one of the one one of the
24:21uncomfortable truths about healthcare
24:23technology is that a good product does
24:26not necessarily make a good business. So
24:28tell me something about how does the
24:30economics work you know after building
24:31across doctors patients and everyone who
24:35pays for it providers etc. Where how
24:38does the economics work for you? How do
24:40how does the how what is the business
24:42model? How do you keep it sustainable?
24:45>> Yeah. U
24:47very tricky question Gorov but uh what I
24:51would say is that you're absolutely
24:53right just building right products and
24:56solving the right problems is not going
24:58to kind of make the economics work. All
25:00right. Uh like I gave an example of um
25:04you know how we build our uh EMRS or for
25:08doctors especially or clinics. uh in the
25:10beginning in fact when we were
25:12experimenting I spoke to you about
25:13multiple cohorts of doctors which we
25:15were trying out we actually started with
25:17saying that we want to improve adoption
25:19and I'm giving this example and I'll
25:21kind of tell you how I'm uh you know how
25:23I think about this when when we actually
25:26started we gave the platform uh free for
25:29doctors we thought today we have to
25:31change their behavior uh for them to
25:34adopt technology and for them to use
25:37digital transformation as a as a means
25:39means by which they can improve their
25:42practice their you know how they kind of
25:45fit into the whole healthcare ecosystem.
25:48But when we actually gave it for free
25:50the adoption was absolutely poor. It was
25:53very poor. The quality of whatever they
25:55did they did not even think about it.
25:57They did not even think about whether
25:58the features what is there in the
26:00platform is good enough for them or not.
26:02Eventually when we actually started
26:04charging them that's when they started
26:06real realizing the value of it. uh
26:08because they said okay there is a merit
26:10in it now that I'm paying for it I want
26:12these these features are working for me
26:14or I want additional features so they
26:16actually started getting involved in the
26:17conversation so this example clearly
26:21demonstrate one important fact which is
26:23also fundamentals of any business not
26:25just healthcare is that there should be
26:28measurable value in any product which we
26:30create uh today we we are talking about
26:34AI for example now AI in healthcare is
26:37you know kind
26:38improving efficiencies etc. uh now the
26:42important aspect is using AI what are
26:46the three or four or five pieces which
26:49will have a measurable impact in the
26:51healthare uh stakeholder ecosystem be it
26:53doctors be it hospitals or whatever I
26:56think that's when they will see lot more
26:58value the second important piece is
27:00healthare barring few pieces in
27:02healthcare most of healthcare is not a
27:05commoditized market
27:07>> what I mean by that is it is a very we
27:09spoke about connected connected
27:11healthcare ecosystem because patient
27:13care is more continuous engagement and
27:16continuous care. So the products or
27:19services which are which gets built
27:22needs to be with a thought process of
27:24continuous patient care and engagement
27:26not just transactional in nature. I
27:28think that's a very important element in
27:29terms of how the economic model can
27:31potentially work.
27:33Last but not last but not the least is
27:36obviously in terms of how um uh uh how
27:41the thought process need to be uh in
27:44case of Indian healthcare especially
27:45that people who are kind of building
27:46businesses out that it is not uh you
27:50can't be a fly by fly by the wheel
27:52operator that you know you'll come
27:54tomorrow and there will be a hockey
27:55stick growth and you know the growth can
27:57happen in healthcare and Indian
27:59healthcare because things happen at a
28:01certain pace and there is too there are
28:02too any nuances or too many uh
28:05stakeholders who are part of the overall
28:06healthcare you need to be patient and
28:09you need to kind of invest from a
28:11long-term perspective for build to build
28:13a sustainable business across the
28:15overall continuum of care. So I think
28:16these are important aspects by which I
28:19believe uh uh you know one can build a
28:21more sustainable healthcare business.
28:23It's definitely not easy. uh it is it is
28:25a fairly tough industry where uh to make
28:28money but if if there are right elements
28:31being added to the overall mix I think
28:32there is this potential for someone to
28:34kind of build a very uh not just not
28:36just a very good business but also
28:38something which has a significant impact
28:41>> absolutely and you you alluded to
28:43artificial intelligence AI entering
28:45healthcare very quickly and that's true
28:47of every aspect of our lives and every
28:50in all businesses uh but briefly tell me
28:53if you had to identify two or maybe
28:55three problems where you believe it can
28:58create a significant change in
28:59healthcare particularly in India. What
29:02would those be? Because uh what we know
29:05as outsiders who and you have a front
29:07row seat of and a practitioner of
29:10bringing change using AI and bringing
29:12changes in India's healthcare ecosystem.
29:14Uh as outsiders we see that you know
29:17artificial intelligence is actually
29:19simply making existing workflows 20%
29:22more efficient. But there's of course
29:24much much more than that. So just help
29:25me understand just two or three problems
29:27that are fundamentally changing because
29:28of AI in India's healthcare.
29:30>> I think uh you know I some of the pieces
29:33which I might mention might sound
29:34repetitive in nature but I'll probably
29:36try to put it in the right context. All
29:38right.
29:39>> Now you mention about the fact that hey
29:41you know from an outsider perspective
29:42you think that you're making it 20%
29:45efficient. That's what it looks like but
29:47to make that happen is a herculan task.
29:50I was recently part of a summit for
29:52example uh and you know as part of a
29:55panel discussion where the debate was
29:57about the fact and this is a um you know
29:59in discussion with various stakeholders
30:01from the hospital ecosystem uh one of
30:03the issues which hospitals face today is
30:06many of them are actually
30:08not fully digitized yet right and AI is
30:11already here question was saying should
30:13we actually do um digitize our hospitals
30:16first or should we kind of adopt AI
30:18right I think the the question or or
30:20rather the answer is not so simple as
30:22well because I think each each of them
30:25uh kind of are fairly interrelated. Uh
30:28the point is
30:30that today AI can help a hospital
30:35you know take certain parts of I I spoke
30:38about measurable outcomes from a
30:39business perspective. AI can actually
30:42this 20% efficiency actually creates
30:45significant measurable volumes uh value
30:47for example for example
30:50>> today
30:51you know let's take our own example
30:53which we've been speaking about uh in in
30:55case of EMR for example if the doctor is
30:58using and adopting EMR and by the way
31:01the doctor the the entire hospital does
31:03not need to transform right even if the
31:05doctor uh let's say it's a 200 bed
31:08hospital or 100 bed hospital just the
31:10doctor using AI modules uh which is
31:13voice AI or scribe AI. What happens is
31:16doctors focusing and giving more time to
31:19the patient.
31:21>> So which means the patient is getting
31:23the right um uh right time from the
31:27doctor for the right treatment.
31:29>> Secondly, because AI is enabling the
31:32entire administrative process so much
31:34better, the throughput is already
31:36increasing. We're talking about
31:37efficiency but it is also adding to kind
31:39of revenues and business because you're
31:41able to see more number of patients what
31:43you would normally see suppose today and
31:46I'm saying this theoretically but you
31:48know eventually once every all the
31:49wheels of motion wheels are in motion
31:52then you will see that larger value so
31:54today if they're able to see 10 patients
31:56for example in 2 hours or 3 hours
31:58tomorrow there is a possibility they
31:59might see 15 or 20 patients for example
32:01in the same time period right so I think
32:04>> the economic model for in terms terms of
32:07how the business can because of just
32:09what efficiencies create I think people
32:12I I think businesses will start seeing
32:14more uh and better traction so that's
32:16one second
32:19today
32:22the continuous care element piece for
32:24the patient and AI has uh you know has a
32:28significant role to play today patients
32:30uh or users for that matter in
32:32healthcare are significantly getting
32:35more and more aware in terms of what
32:37they need to do right now. AI can
32:40actually help them direct in terms of
32:42you know what are the next steps how can
32:44they kind of uh you know what are the
32:46next steps they need to do if they have
32:48a certain condition or they want certain
32:50type of care so AI can direct them in
32:52the right uh to the right care pathways
32:55to saying hey here's what you need to do
32:57as a next step so that they're able to
32:58take more informed decisions so that you
33:01know they are they are you know getting
33:04more proactive care than reactive care
33:06this holds good on the other side as
33:07well if enough data is available able
33:09for clinicians for example you know or
33:12if there are people at risk they can
33:13reach out to the patients who providing
33:14better care. So I think it this AI can
33:17add to significant uh uh uh you know
33:20importance to how the care outcomes are
33:22delivered. Last but not the least, I
33:25think today
33:28um we we are sitting uh on mammoth
33:31amount of healthcare data. what you can
33:34actually do with it and how AI can help
33:37um you know um use parsing that data for
33:41the entire stakeholder ecosystem from we
33:44spoke about patient care we spoke about
33:45how doctors use it but the entire
33:47ecosystem like payers and uh you know
33:50the uh the care financing sites in terms
33:53of how they look at cost of care I think
33:55data can add a significant layer in
33:57terms of how cost of care can be managed
33:59so I think it spans across the entire
34:02breadth of the business model and
34:04eventually from both efficiency to uh
34:07increasing profitability to revenue
34:08generation it has significant role to
34:10play.
34:11>> Absolutely. Finally uh Manoj you know
34:13very briefly uh lay us lay lay us out
34:16the road map for Tatwalker. How do you
34:18see it in the next five years and where
34:20do you see it? Well, I think uh you know
34:23uh our vision is large uh in in next
34:26five years if if we are being perceived
34:28or we come about as as a platform uh
34:32which which uh cuts across the entire
34:34integrated healthcare value chain I
34:37would have assumed that we would have
34:38arrived by then. I think we're already
34:40on that path uh already and we've built
34:43various elements of it. I think uh it is
34:45about doing the same uh you know working
34:48with the same thought process at scale.
34:51I think that's where a larger impact
34:52would get created. So um you know and
34:55and we we have the right elements of
34:58various businesses. We have we we have
35:00the practice for providers uh which cuts
35:03across outpatient inpatient and the
35:05whole hospital information system. We
35:07have good flip which actually helps in
35:10terms of the chronic disease management
35:12piece. We have visit health which is our
35:14corporate or payerback benefits
35:16management platform which manages
35:17significant uh you know volume of lives.
35:20So we have actually all the elements
35:22fairly stitched together. Uh I think uh
35:25in the next five years if we are able to
35:27deliver what we've kind of embarked on
35:29at scale I think we would have uh uh we
35:32would have been very happy. Yeah.
35:34Absolutely Manoj wish you all the best
35:36for it and thank you so much for taking
35:38the time out and dropping by to have
35:40this conversation with us and sharing a
35:42deep insights and perspective on a range
35:44of issues. Thank you Manoj.
35:45>> Thank you Gorov. It's been a pleasure to
35:47be here.

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