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Benefits Uses and Recipes for Fermented Foods — Transcript

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0:09Hello everyone. Thanks for joining our
0:11All About Fermenting Food webinar today.
0:14I'm Dorothy Long, managing director of
0:16Canadian Food Focus and your host for
0:18the webinar. Before we jump in to learn
0:21all about fermentation, let me tell you
0:23a little bit more about Canadian Food
0:25Focus. Canadian Food Focus is a national
0:28organization with the goal of improving
0:30food literacy of Canadian consumers from
0:33farmgate to plate. We explore how food
0:36is grown and raised and provide useful
0:38advice for experts to help people make
0:40confident food choices. Our educational
0:43programming provides information about
0:45Canadian farming and food through
0:47articles, videos, social media posts
0:50created by experts including farmers,
0:52ranchers, dieticians, home economists,
0:55and chefs.
0:56We also have an educational program for
0:59food professionals to provide
1:01information about Canadian food and
1:03farming. Food food professionals can
1:06sign up uh for our forum newsletter and
1:09LinkedIn group to learn more. Angela
1:12from our team is is uh and who is
1:14running the webinar today will share a
1:16QR code uh and a link to sign up for
1:20that page in the chat.
1:22I also wanted to tell you about our
1:24monthly great food grown here newsletter
1:27for consumers. Um, it provides you with
1:31the latest uh content and Angela will
1:33also share a QR code link and a link in
1:37the sign up uh to the sign up page in
1:40the chat as well. We also have an ask us
1:43page on our website. If you have any
1:45questions about Canadian food and
1:47farming, you can connect with us there.
1:50Finally, you can also follow us at
1:53Canadian at CDN food focus on all the
1:56usual social media platforms. Now let's
1:59get started with today's webinar. We are
2:02very pleased to partner with the
2:03Canadian ferment fermented food
2:05initiative and the preserving chef not
2:08only to develop information on fermented
2:10foods but to offer this webinar today.
2:13The Canadian fermented food initiatives
2:15is a non is a national non-forprofit
2:18effort to advance research, education
2:21and public awareness around fermented
2:23foods. It aims to strengthens Canada's
2:26lead leadership in fermented
2:28fermentation science, innovation and
2:30public health.
2:32So let's get started now with the
2:34webinar.
2:36It is my pleasure to introduce our first
2:39speaker, Dr. Dr. Carla LRA Sanchez
2:43Leoente.
2:45She is a postdoal fellow at Western
2:47University and the Lawson Research
2:50Institute in London, Canada and the
2:53coordinator of the Canadian Fermented
2:55Food Initiative. She holds a bachelor of
2:57science in biotechnology, a PhD in
3:00neuroscience and has experience in life
3:03science consulting. Carla's research has
3:07explored how chronic stress impacts the
3:10neurobiology of depression before
3:13shifting to the gut microbiome and diet
3:16leading leading her to the current work
3:18on the ben health benefits of fermented
3:21food. She is passionate about food as
3:24medicine knowledge uh knowledge
3:26translation and public health impact. Uh
3:30it is there's a lot of interest in in
3:32this um in fermented foods right now and
3:35so it's a pleasure for us to be having
3:38Carla here today to tell us more. So
3:41Carla, do you want to take it away?
3:47>> Yes.
3:48So thank you Dorothy for this great
3:50introduction. Um, and you already kind
3:54of talked a little bit about the
3:55initiative, but I'm going to start by
3:58quickly saying that this was a it's a
4:00national effort that was funded by the
4:02Western Family Foundation, which is a
4:04philanthropic entity that is really
4:07trying to improve the health of
4:08Canadians. And this effort is um
4:11together you can see in this image the
4:13um uh leaders of this initiative uh
4:16which are professors of um microbiology
4:19and and dieticians
4:21um in different universities around
4:24Canada. I am located in London, Ontario,
4:27but um yeah, we're really trying to
4:30advance the role of fermented foods in
4:32health and food systems across Canada
4:34and in different ways. So we really work
4:36with with with the research community
4:39with health care professionals. We try
4:42to support industry too and for the
4:44relevance of the talk today we uh really
4:47try to educate consumers and in reality
4:49consumers are everyone. So um some
4:53things that we do is provide education.
4:55Um we have created resources, we do
4:57webinars like this. We have created uh
5:00we have done workshops uh events etc.
5:04And if you want to learn more about the
5:05initiative, we we have more information
5:08on our website. You will have more
5:10details about that later too. But today
5:13I'm here to tell talk to you about
5:14fermented foods. And I usually do this
5:17in in person this talk. But u and I ask
5:21the audience if anyone can point me to
5:24which of these foods is not a fermented
5:26food. But today I mean since we can't do
5:29this, but I'm going to tell you already
5:31right away that this is a trick
5:32question.
5:33because all of these are fermented
5:35foods. So, believe it or not, uh even
5:38chocolate is technically by definition a
5:41fermented food because the cocoa beans
5:42have been fermented. So, uh if we looked
5:45at the definition of fermented foods are
5:47those foods and beverages produced
5:49through the control growth of
5:50microorganisms,
5:52those can be bacteria, yeast, etc. that
5:54transform the food components into
5:56acids, gases, uh alcohol through a
5:59process called fermentation.
6:02So long story short, there has to be a a
6:05transformation of the food by microbes.
6:08So basically you can ferment any food um
6:12as long as you either add microbes or
6:15already naturally present microbes there
6:17in a control environment. They lead to a
6:20fermented food. But then we can classify
6:22those fermented foods based on whether
6:24they still contain microbes or not. So
6:26if through um further processing like
6:30pasteurization, filtration
6:33um cooking those microbes are gone then
6:35those foods are still fermented. They
6:37just don't contain those microbes.
6:40However, what we normally think of
6:42fermented foods they generally contain
6:44still life microbes and we can have uh
6:47two different types of fermented foods.
6:49those that we can call probiotic
6:51fermented foods and those are the ones
6:53that contain microbes in sufficient
6:55amounts and they have a demonstrated
6:57health benefit. So there have been
7:00scientific studies that prove that that
7:02specific micro can have benefits to
7:04human health and this is a very common
7:07misconception that people think that
7:09automatically probiotic means microbes
7:11and that thus everything is probiotic.
7:16So why do we care about fermented foods?
7:18So uh fermented foods in reality even
7:20though they might be a hype about
7:22fermented foods now fermented foods have
7:24been around for many years. Um it
7:27they're present in in all cultures
7:30around the world. It originated as a way
7:32of preserving food when we didn't have
7:34refrigeration. Um fermentation allows
7:38foods to last longer longer shelf life
7:40uh avoid um you know spoilage and and
7:44even improved digestibility.
7:47Then it was adopted by chefs around the
7:49world as a way of creating new flavors,
7:51new textures that can be achieved
7:53through f through through fermentation.
7:55And even like Michelin star restaurants
7:58around the world, their amazing
8:00creations are done through fermentation.
8:03And more recently, there's an increased
8:05attention to these foods due to the
8:07perceived health benefits as well as um
8:11because they confer a way of more
8:13sustainable foods and you can create
8:16alternative um plant-based meat products
8:19through fermentation too. So there's
8:22this recent interest.
8:24Um today I'm going to touch a little bit
8:27on the potential health benefits. So
8:29through the initiative
8:31we what we did is we gathered all the
8:34evidence scientific proven uh
8:38scientifically done studies like in
8:40clinical settings or with humans uh
8:43where they studied different fermented
8:45foods and looked at whether there were
8:47changes in different markers um or
8:51whether there was an associated
8:52decreased risk of developing certain
8:54conditions. And you can find this uh
8:58study here, but you can also on our
9:01website find um um these in a more
9:05distilled uh way. Um [snorts]
9:09but the takeaway is that um there might
9:12be many potential associations with
9:14certain conditions, specifically chronic
9:16diseases like diabetes, um
9:18cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc.
9:21there's a stronger uh body of evidence
9:23with dairy fermented foods and that is
9:26because um there's basically more
9:28studies being done but that doesn't mean
9:30that other fermented foods might not
9:32confer the same benefits.
9:35And as a takeaway, what we got from this
9:37uh study is that um we still need um
9:40more evidence like more studies that can
9:43support um these these benefits. And
9:46that's what the initiative is really uh
9:48also going to try to um make that
9:51happen.
9:52And so uh for now the only health claim
9:56we can do with fermented foods is uh
9:58with yogurt. So the FDA, which is the
10:01regulatory body in the US, um put
10:04together this qualified health claim
10:06that we can say that consuming two cups
10:08or three servings per week of yogurt may
10:11reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes
10:13according to limited scientific
10:15evidence. So right now um if maybe in
10:18the future there's more studies, maybe
10:20we can say that other fermented foods
10:23like a fear or etc. might also be
10:25helpful for certain conditions.
10:28But regardless of of of those specific
10:32um health claims, we still have some
10:34evidence that eating fermented foods can
10:36help support your gut health and your
10:38immune system. And this has uh these are
10:41two examples of two of these studies
10:43that have been conducted uh to support
10:45this. And what they did is they gave uh
10:49healthy subjects well they make them
10:52consume um fermented foods during 10
10:54weeks. Then they measured their blood
10:56and stool samples and they observed that
10:59they had a decreased inflammation and
11:02they had an improved gut microbiome. And
11:04the gut microbiome are all those
11:07bacteria, yeast like all those microbes
11:09that exist in our um dig digestive tract
11:13and that are very important for our
11:15function that and I will get more into
11:18detail about that later on. But
11:20basically what they saw is that uh
11:22eating fermented foods it increased
11:23diversity of these microbes and higher
11:26diversity we think is better and then
11:28the those microbes also resemble those
11:31of younger individuals.
11:35So when we think about the benefits of
11:37fermented foods again um when we think
11:40about how they might support immune
11:42system or or gut health is uh on the one
11:46side because of the food transformation
11:48that occurs during fermentation. So
11:51those raw ingredients like those
11:52vegetables uh etc. even though they
11:55might already be good for you, they
11:58might contain some minerals and vitamins
12:00that are not readily absorbable for by
12:04our body and so through fermentation
12:06they get transformed into a way that we
12:08can absorb them better. Um there can be
12:12any a boost and in antioxidants and
12:14other
12:16beneficial molecules. They can reduce
12:19toxic substances um let's say like heavy
12:22metals or other things present in foods
12:25or um molecules that are hard to
12:28tolerate by some individuals such as
12:30lactose, gluten etc.
12:34And then the other way fermented foods
12:36uh help is uh by the microbes itself
12:39that they they provide us. So by
12:41consuming these microbes, they interact
12:44with our own gut microbes and and and
12:48make the ecosystem
12:50um be more stable and support their
12:52functions. So um some of these functions
12:55that you might already know is um you
12:58know they help digest the food and
13:00absorb it, but other functions that you
13:02might might not really think about is
13:04they're really important in protecting
13:05us. Uh because the gut is one of the key
13:08barriers of our body for pathogens. So
13:10like viruses or toxic sub substances. So
13:14really those having healthy um gut
13:17microbiome will help strengthen that
13:19barrier. And then another thing they do
13:21is they produce a lot of healthpromoting
13:24molecules or metabolites that um
13:26interact with our immune system and
13:29communicate with our brain and other
13:31organs and give a lot of signals on how
13:34to function. So now there's a lot of
13:36interest on on the gut brain connection
13:39and how food might be affecting our
13:42mental health uh through this link.
13:46So um in order to kind of like a
13:49consideration is when we think about all
13:51these benefits of fermented foods is
13:53that not not all fermented foods are
13:55made the same and they not all contain
13:58the same microbes or the same um
14:00beneficial metabolites etc. So, it will
14:03really depend on the process. Uh, and
14:06and and I mean, overall,
14:09regardless of how they're made, they're
14:11still probably going to be good for you
14:13as opposed to consuming uh
14:15ultrarocessed, sugary,
14:17etc. alternatives. But um if you want to
14:22optimize uh your choices then you really
14:24need to uh look into these differences
14:27and be aware that for instance um let's
14:30say yogurt as I said yogurt has a health
14:33claim that you it can help with type two
14:36diabetes but as you know type two
14:38diabetes um is really important to
14:40regulate your sugar levels but we have
14:42yogurts out there in grocery stores that
14:44have the same amount of sugar than a
14:46jelly donut which is obviously not going
14:49to be helpful.
14:50and it's going to be counteracting the
14:53beneficial aspects of yogurt. So, um
14:56here I'm showing I'm giving you a tool
14:59that I I do not work with them uh or
15:02anything, but I do use it and I think
15:04it's very helpful. There's other
15:06companies that do this too, but there's
15:08this app called Yuka that you can scan
15:10the QR code on the food and it can
15:12distill the information about the label
15:14and the contents on the food. So if you
15:16don't know how to read labels, you can
15:19do it in um through this app. And so
15:23kind of finishing up um we conducted a
15:26survey to over 4,000 Canadians and we
15:28saw there's a lot of um unsuress about
15:31whether fermented foods are safe for you
15:33or not. And I want to remind you and and
15:36Connor uh from the preserving shop will
15:39explain a bit more about this. that um
15:42you know fermentation was done thousands
15:45of years ago when we didn't have the
15:46same sanitary requirements and and tools
15:50etc. and people were fine. So it's
15:53really hard to to grow something that is
15:56going to kill you or anything. So if you
15:58just follow normal um standards it'll be
16:02fine. And then in terms of tolerability
16:04it's all about um it each individual
16:07will tolerate foods differently like any
16:09other food. So, it's about um trying
16:13different fermented foods. So, here um
16:16we put together a resource that you can
16:18scan here. It's a a guide to good gut
16:21living. We have recipes. We have tips on
16:24how to incorporate foods into your diet.
16:26Here are some examples. So, maybe start
16:28first with foods that you already know
16:29like yogurt, sour the bread. Um those
16:33you can start eating them more regularly
16:35like every day and see how you feel. Um
16:38or you can start ingesting uh small
16:40amounts of new fermented foods. Um but I
16:43would recommend not to go um too fast
16:46like you need to let your body and your
16:48own gut microbes to adjust to these
16:50changes.
16:52So finally some takeaways from this talk
16:55is that um you know not all fermented
16:58foods are the same and like there's many
17:01different flavors, many different
17:02fermented foods. there's um you know
17:06some will contain microbes, some won't.
17:08Um we really need to make sure we don't
17:10use the word probiotic wrong. Um even if
17:14we don't have microbes, it's still they
17:17still confer some benefits to you. Um
17:20not all fermented foods are the same.
17:22the example of yogurt. And even though
17:25fermented foods are quite safe for
17:27everyone, they might not be for um you
17:30know 100% for everyone, but um again,
17:33it's all about moderation and trying the
17:35ones that work for you.
17:38Thank you so much.
17:45Thanks, Carla. So much great information
17:47there. And I can see that we already
17:49have a few questions in the chat. Um,
17:51and we'll get to them. Um, but first I
17:53think we'll go on to our second
17:55presenter, Chef Connor Flynn. Um, but
17:58just before we do that, um, if you do
18:00have any questions for, uh, either of
18:04the presenters or about fermented food,
18:06please put them into the chat and we'll
18:07get to them at the end of, uh, Connor's
18:10presentation here. So, it is my pleasure
18:14to introduce Chef Connor Flynn, who's
18:16also known as the preserving chef. He is
18:19a red shield seal chef and one of only a
18:23very few certified master food
18:25preservers in Canada. Um so we're very
18:28lucky to have him here today. [snorts]
18:29He is also a dedicated high school
18:31teacher in the hospitality and tourism
18:33sector and he is celebrates the art and
18:36science of canning, fermenting,
18:37pickling, and long-term food storage.
18:40Always with an emphasis on
18:43sustainability, seasonality, safety, and
18:46flavor. [snorts] in his class and
18:48through the preserving chef website. Con
18:50Chef Connor uh also teaches foundational
18:53skills with while fostering confidence,
18:56curiosity, and respect for the craft. Uh
19:00so we're very part pleased to be
19:02partnering with uh Chef Flynn today. And
19:05we also are we're very happy to um be
19:08able to share some of his fermenting
19:10recipes on the Canadian Food Focus
19:12website. And I think that Angela is
19:14going to provide a link there as well.
19:16Um she'll also be providing a link to
19:18some of the videos that the um uh
19:23[clears throat]
19:24Canadian fermentation um initiative has
19:27put together with Connor and uh you'll
19:29be able to watch those on YouTube after
19:31where he walks you step by step through
19:33some of the different recipes. Uh so
19:37thanks for being with us today, Chef. I
19:38know you have lots of great things to
19:40share with us, so take it away.
19:46Hello everybody. Uh yeah, as was
19:48mentioned, I can't really do a better
19:49job than uh I was just given there in
19:52terms of an introduction. Thank you very
19:53much and I'm very blessed to be here,
19:55grateful to have a platform to share my
19:58passion for this. Um so I guess you know
20:02there's a lot of misnomers and and
20:04miscommunication or you know a lot of
20:06myths in general about fermentation and
20:09Carla shared about myths and safety. So,
20:12I'm hoping to kind of lighten it a bit.
20:14I mean, that's the best part about being
20:16a chef is having fun, being creative.
20:19So, um you know, as you can see on the
20:21slides there, we have some pictures of
20:24my wife and our children, right? Um and
20:26some people in our classes. So, I think
20:28I want to start by just saying that
20:29fermentation is very simple and easy. Um
20:32I'm in my high school classroom right
20:34now, so I apologize in advance if
20:36there's an announcement because I can't
20:38do anything about that. So, um, if that
20:41happens, I apologize. But I teach all
20:44these things to high school students.
20:46So, if you're new to fermentation or if
20:48you're kind of wondering if you can
20:49handle it or if there's safety concerns
20:51or is it difficult, I'm here to tell you
20:53that it's very simple. And so if I can
20:56get 15, 14, 15 year old boys and girls
20:59to successfully ferment vegetables, as
21:02you can see in some of our pictures, our
21:03children who are even younger than that,
21:06uh, ferment regularly with us at home.
21:08And, uh, not only is it fun, it's easy,
21:11it's very, very safe. And, you know, we
21:14don't really see many fermentss going
21:16bad, so to speak. And if you I challenge
21:19you if it's something that you're you're
21:21thinking about, you know, is this going
21:23to be safe for me to consume? I
21:25challenge you to go try to find
21:27something with from a public health
21:28unit, uh, CFIA and and try to see if
21:31there's any actual claims for foodborne
21:33illness in fermentss. It's very rare
21:35that it occurs. And when it does occur,
21:37it happens at a manufacturing or
21:39industrial level. So, um, my main thing
21:42here today is to kind of just lighten
21:45the load of of worry in terms of are
21:48ferments safe to consume. Um, and also
21:51remind everyone that this is an age-old
21:53practice that's really gaining
21:54popularity again and it is very fun and
21:57it's very easy to pull off. Next slide,
21:59please. So, just quickly about me, I'm a
22:03father and a husband first, a career
22:06chef. So, I've apprenticed as a chef and
22:09you know, from the restaurant
22:10perspective, we're seeing a lot of chefs
22:12utilizing fermentation as a way to
22:14create flavors that can't be recreated
22:16by the chefs themselves, right? So, what
22:19I like to say is the microbes involved
22:21in the fermentation process get to have
22:23all the fun. They create these really
22:25unique flavors that can't really be
22:26recreated. And that's what's so
22:28fascinating about fermentation uh for me
22:31as a chef that the jars in front of me
22:33here. I've got some fermented honey
22:36mushrooms with teragon.
22:38I've got some traditional German
22:41sauerkraut which I'm going to show you
22:42how to make today. So it's just cabbage,
22:45salt, and carowway seeds. We've got some
22:48fermented tomatoes with parsley, mustard
22:51seeds, and basil.
22:54And [clears throat] then our family
22:55favorite, which is the fermented dill
22:56pickle. All of these fermentss
23:00generally use the same preparation
23:01method, but they all have their own very
23:04unique different flavor, different
23:06textures, right? So, as a chef, this is
23:08very exciting for me. And as if you're a
23:10home a home cook or a foodie, this is
23:13something that should be intriguing uh
23:14to you as well. Um I also used to be a
23:17sourdough bread baker, um a cheese
23:20maker, and as was mentioned, I'm a
23:22certified master food preserver. when
23:24I'm coming at you with ways or methods
23:26to preserve food, which we can't forget
23:29that fermentation first was born as a as
23:32a form of food preservation, right? So,
23:35way back, you know, when we had fields
23:37full of cabbage, you know, at the end of
23:39the season, people were saying like,
23:41what are we going to do with all this?
23:42And and they figured out a way to
23:43preserve it. What they didn't realize at
23:45the time was that it was going to be so
23:48delicious in terms of texture and flavor
23:50and at the same time preserving the
23:52cabbage safely. Um, and then as was
23:55mentioned, I I'm a high school teacher.
23:57I it's a joy to do this and to teach
24:00these skills, these age-old skills to
24:02high school students. Um, and just see
24:05them light up about the process and that
24:09they made it. Next slide, please.
24:14Yeah. So, we're going to talk about um
24:16myths just quickly here before I get
24:18into the demo. So, the first myth,
24:21fermentation is dangerous. Um I'll just
24:23speak from my own experience. In the
24:25last eight years, out of all the things
24:27I've fermented, I've had two fermentss
24:30go moldy on me. So, when we talk about
24:32safety, what's really awesome about
24:34fermentation is you can visually see
24:37that the top of your ferment has mold on
24:39it. If we ever see mold, we want to get
24:41rid of that ferment. So, if you're new
24:43to fermentation and you're going to
24:45check out some of the recipes or check
24:46out our website or possibly consider
24:48taking our online course, our
24:50fermentation course, I want you to start
24:53doing a single jar ferment, right? You
24:55don't want to start with a huge croc,
24:57which we have lots of here at the school
24:58and at home, because you want to get
25:00some experience and confidence in one
25:03jar of fermented vegetables before you
25:07move into like a bigger scale, right?
25:09So, if ever, you know, down the road
25:12you're fermenting something and you see
25:13mold growth on the top, that's game
25:15over. There are lots of people online
25:17saying you can just scoop it up off the
25:19top and you're going to be all good. And
25:21you you can take that risk if you want,
25:22but I'm telling you, best case scenario,
25:24we're not going to when in doubt, throw
25:26it out. Um, another myth that's common
25:30is that you need to have sort of like a
25:31starter culture. So, we were mentioning
25:33uh Carla was mentioning yogurt. So often
25:36when you make yogurt, you use a starter
25:37culture to inoculate or to start the
25:40yogurt making process. For vegetable
25:43fermentation, all the lactic acid
25:45bacteria or microbes necessary for
25:47successful fermentation are already
25:49currently on the vegetable, right? So we
25:52just provide or guide the fermentation
25:55process for whatever vegetable we're
25:58fermenting. So we don't need to buy a
26:01special culture to to have fermentation
26:03occur. As I mentioned off the top,
26:06fermentation is not difficult. It's
26:08actually very easy in terms of all the
26:11forms of food preservation that we do as
26:13a family teach in our uh side business
26:15at the preserving chef. Fermentation is
26:18our favorite. It is the quickest on the
26:20front end. And you'll see that in a few
26:22minutes here where I simply am just
26:24going to chop this cabbage up, add some
26:26carryway seeds, add some salt, smash it
26:28around, let the juices kind of form,
26:31come out of the cabbage, and then it's
26:32going to go right into the jar. And
26:34that's it. A good comparison for this is
26:36when we look at pickles. I'm assuming
26:39some of you that are watching have
26:40canned pickles before. And if we compare
26:43fermentation to canning, when you're
26:45looking at canning a bushel of cuces to
26:49make uh pickles, right? Um you're
26:53looking at at least eight hours of work,
26:55maybe six if you're very efficient. When
26:58we talk about fermenting cuces, we wash
27:01them, we create a brine, we put our
27:04spices uh and salt, salt brine into a
27:08croc or into a small jar like this. And
27:11then we just set it on the counter and
27:13let it ferment. So you're looking at so
27:15much less time. And in my opinion,
27:18fermented pickles are much better than
27:20canned ones for various reasons. So it
27:23is very simple on the front end. Now,
27:25there is the time involved about
27:27watching the ferment, making sure it's
27:29going well, guiding it, but on the front
27:31end, you're looking at very minimal work
27:33in comparison to something like canning.
27:36Special equipment, you definitely don't
27:40need special equipment. Uh you can
27:42simply ferment just with a regular uh
27:45canning jar, a snap lid, and a ring. Uh
27:49you can definitely pull off fermented
27:51vegetables that way. But in terms of,
27:53you know, if you were going to get some
27:55equipment, we we work closely with Mason
27:58Tops, which is a Canadian company where
28:00we we've just got a simple Mason Top set
28:02that solves the problem. You don't have
28:04to go out and buy a big croc or a car
28:06boy or other pieces of equipment that,
28:09you know, we see advertised online. We
28:12live in this world where if you start
28:14googling this, you're going to get
28:15algorithms uh for very various products
28:18and you can basically get started with
28:21just a simple pickle pebble from Mason
28:23Top and a pickle pipe and just a a
28:26canning jar that you have at home,
28:28right? So, you don't necessarily need
28:30specialized equipment. A lot of people
28:32will say, "Hey, I need a pH meter,
28:34right? To take the pH of my ferment."
28:37Yes, you can do that. Yes, you'll have a
28:39better gauge on what the acidity is in
28:42your ferment, but when we're at home, we
28:44never take the pH of our fermentss, and
28:47we've never had an issue. We feed it to
28:48our children all the time.
28:51Another uh myth is that, you know, we
28:53need to refrigerate or sorry, that we
28:55need to can our fermented foods. Now,
28:57that's an option. So, back in the day
29:00when I tried sauerkraut as a kid, I
29:02thought I hated it because I was having
29:03canned sauerkraut, right? So, the
29:06texture was mushy. I didn't love it. We
29:08can definitely take a finished fermented
29:11kraut and can it for long-term storage,
29:13but it's not necessary. You'll actually
29:16lose, of course, uh all those good
29:18microbes. You'll kill those, sterilize
29:20those, and you lose a lot of texture.
29:22Um, also, you don't actually have to
29:25store your fermentss in the fridge after
29:27fermentation. Say, for example, if you
29:30have a nice cold cellar that maintains a
29:32cool temperature year round, you can
29:34actually keep them in your cold cellar.
29:36Now, at home, we have multiple uh
29:38fermentation fridges because we have so
29:40many uh fermentss that we're trying to
29:42store, and we also don't have a cold
29:44cellar. But this idea that it has to be
29:46refrigerated after is not necessarily
29:48true. Though, if you're not going to
29:50keep it in the fridge and it's at a
29:52higher temperature, of course,
29:53fermentation is going to continue at a
29:55more rapid pace. And then lastly, salt.
29:59You know, there's a lot of people saying
30:01salt is not good for you. And there is
30:03some truth to that. I'm no doctor for
30:04sure. But when we are fermenting, we
30:06want to use a healthy salt. And we do
30:09have some control over the level of salt
30:11we put into our ferment. So
30:12fermentation, believe it or not, can
30:14still occur without salt. It doesn't
30:16taste very good. And of course, there is
30:17a bit more risk for mold growth. But you
30:20know, you know, when you get deeper into
30:21this, you will kind of figure out what
30:24percentage of salt you should use, which
30:26we generally use 2%. But say you can't
30:29consume a lot of salt, you can dial back
30:31on the amount of salt. So, it's not
30:33necessarily true that you can't eat
30:35fermentss just because uh there's a a
30:38fairly uh good amount of salt in them.
30:40So, that's something you'll have to
30:41figure out moving forward. In terms of
30:43salt, you just want to use any salt.
30:46This is pickling salt here. That
30:48basically when you read the ingredients,
30:49it just says salt. Next slide, please.
30:54Yeah. So, I don't have a lot of time.
30:56I'm, you know, I'm feel like I'm moving
30:57at a pretty good pace here. But
30:59basically, as a company and as a family,
31:02we're really dedicated to try to change
31:04the face of food preservation in Canada,
31:06specifically also with fermentation. So,
31:09we please, we really encourage you to
31:12check us out. You know, not a lot of
31:14people know us and that the internet is
31:16a a vast space and we really are trying
31:20to change this in our world, in our
31:23country. We want to pass it down to the
31:25next generation. And if you'd be willing
31:27to to follow us on our Instagram,
31:29LinkedIn, all that, we would really
31:31appreciate it. Also, if you're thinking,
31:34you know, I might want to get just a
31:36simple setup, um, send or give us a like
31:39and a follow on our social media and we
31:42can send you a discount code for Mason
31:44Top so you can get started yourself.
31:47Okay, that was a lot of words. So, we're
31:50going to get right into the demo here.
31:53Um, again, like I mentioned, we're just
31:56going to be making a simple sauerkraut.
31:59So, a traditional German sauerkraut. So,
32:01we've got a cabbage here. What we're
32:03going to do is remove the other leaves.
32:05Because of time, I'm not going to wash
32:06my hands, but it is really important um
32:09for you to work with clean equipment and
32:12clean hands. It's basically the number
32:15one way to kind of have your ferment go
32:17bad. If you're going to introduce some
32:19sort of bad microbe because of, you
32:22know, dirty equipment or a vegetable
32:25that isn't so uh fresh, right, you
32:28really want to kind of take those
32:31factors out. Those are factors that we
32:33can control, right? So, like any
32:34cabbage, we generally are going to
32:37remove the outer leaves here. And if it
32:39looks like I'm throwing this on the
32:41floor, I'm not. There is a garbage can
32:43there. Uh, so I'm not actually throwing
32:45it on the floor. So, I'm going to take
32:47the outer leaves off. I'm going to just
32:49quickly give this a gentle wash. Okay.
32:52So,
32:55unlike something like canning, we don't
32:58want to like go too far with the washing
33:00because if we wash too thoroughly, we're
33:03going to wash away all the good microbes
33:05as well. So, we want to have faith that
33:08through the fermentation process that
33:09lactic acid bacteria is going to take
33:11over, dominate, and so if there happens
33:14to be some trace bad microbes, we're
33:17going to have faith that those are going
33:18to die out and the lactic acid bacteria
33:20is going to take over. So, we've got
33:22just a gently washed cabbage with the
33:24outer uh leaves removed. When I cut a
33:26cabbage, I teach kids to have a folded
33:29up uh clean towel. We start our cut.
33:33Then we put the towel over the knife and
33:35we can do like a chop in half like that.
33:38For this particular recipe I'm making
33:40today, it can be found on our resources
33:42on the Canadian Fermented Foods
33:44Initiative uh website. And uh we're
33:47going to be dealing with about 2 lbs.
33:49Okay. So, we've got our cabbage cut in
33:51half. We are now going to make an upside
33:53down V cut to remove the core. Okay. So,
33:58we insert our knife down to the board.
34:02here. And if you look closely, that's
34:04why I call it an upside down V cut
34:05because it removes the core like that.
34:09We're going to then cut the cabbage in
34:10half. And to date, I have never cut
34:13myself on camera in front of students.
34:15So, I'm hoping that that doesn't happen
34:16today. Now, when we cut this cabbage,
34:20there's a lot of people saying that
34:21thinking it has to be the perfect thin
34:23slice. Sure, that looks great. But I
34:26want you to remember that however you
34:28cut it, the most important part is that
34:30it's an even cut. So if you like bigger
34:33pieces, like so say you want a kro
34:35that's a little chunkier or thicker, you
34:37just make those cuts and make sure
34:39they're even. This this helps and aids
34:41with even fermentation. So if you have
34:43super thin slices and then thick ones,
34:46fermentation is not so even. So you may
34:49have some mushier pieces and then some
34:51crunchy pieces. The thing that most
34:53people really love about fresh freshly
34:56fermented sauerkraut is that crunch. So
34:58to maintain a good crunch, we want to
35:01maintain an even cut. Okay? So we're
35:04just going to cut here.
35:09And after I cut it, um I am on the
35:12recipe it tells you I think it's 12
35:15cups. But when you go down the rabbit
35:18hole of fermentation,
35:20you I really encourage you to get a
35:22scale, right? Cuz scales are very
35:24accurate in terms of salt ratios.
35:30Okay. So, we're going to slice it.
35:32Again, I've gone with like kind of a
35:34medium, like a medium thickness.
35:41Okay. And then what I'm going to do here
35:43is I'm going to take my scale.
35:46Of course, you can't see the numbers,
35:48but we're going to put our bowl on
35:49there.
35:51We're going to turn it on so that it
35:53takes off the weight of the bowl, which
35:55is really important. We're going to make
35:56sure we're in pounds.
36:06And we've got a little friend here that
36:07I didn't cut properly. So, I'm going to
36:08just quickly dice that up. Slice that
36:12up.
36:15Our bowl back on.
36:18And we're just short of two lbs, of
36:19course.
36:21So, we'll deal with this one as well.
36:24Cut the core out.
36:27Cut it in half. We just need a bit more.
36:35So, you're looking at sort of like a
36:37mediumsized cabbage. If it's a large
36:39one, it's going to be way over 2 lbs.
36:42Okay, we'll put my bowl back on. And I
36:44think that should do it.
36:48I do like to try to break up the cabbage
36:51also when I'm putting it in. So, we're
36:52just at 2 lbs, which is perfect. Okay.
36:56Now to the cabbage, I'm going to add a
36:59tablespoon. In this case, pickling salt,
37:01but uh Himalayan salt would work fine.
37:04Kosher salt, uh Redmond salt is nice
37:07because it has extra minerals. So, a
37:09tablespoon, sprinkle it around. The key,
37:12as I mentioned, is making sure that the
37:14salt on the ingredients just says salt,
37:17not salt with anti-caking agents. Again,
37:20microbes don't like chemicals, so we
37:22want to use a pure salt.
37:25Carowway seed. I'm going to add uh lot
37:28not a lot of people have experience with
37:30carowway seed, but it is in the dill
37:32fennel family. So, it's got a really
37:34robust it's like the cousin of dill.
37:37It's very powerful and robust. So, I
37:40mean although we see it in rye bread and
37:43in sauerkraut, it it doesn't get enough
37:45play, I think, in other foods. So, maybe
37:47consider trying it in some of your other
37:49dishes. It goes great with meat. Okay.
37:51Okay. So, I'm going to do a teaspoon of
37:53carowway seed. Sprinkle that around.
37:57And here comes the most fun part of the
38:00process. When we teach this to adults in
38:03adult classes or if we do this with um
38:06high school kids, which we do often, uh
38:08they don't love this step step
38:10particularly because it's very physical.
38:12So, the first thing we're going to do is
38:14just toss the cabbage, salt, and
38:17carowway mixture around.
38:21Okay. And once we kind of get it all
38:22coated with the salt, we're going to use
38:25our mason top kout basher here. Okay. Or
38:28tamper to use the proper term. And this
38:31is where it gets fun or not fun
38:33depending on if you like smashing
38:35things. So we're going to use the tamper
38:38to bash the cabbage. That breaks down
38:41the cell wall. It also the salt itself
38:44kind of exfoliates the for lack of a
38:46better description the cabbage. We're
38:48trying to pull that natural juice out of
38:51the cabbage, which is going to turn into
38:52our brine. So, I'm going to show you
38:54what it looks like, but basically,
38:56hopefully my laptop doesn't end up with
38:58cabbage on it. We're going to do this
39:00smashing motion, trying to break down
39:02that cell wall, get the juices flowing.
39:07And basically, you're going to do this
39:09step. Bash, bash, bash, toss around,
39:12squeeze. So, we're going to start
39:14massaging it, they call that. And you
39:16would do this for about five, depending
39:19on your cabbage, 5 to 10 minutes. So, it
39:21can be very physical. Now, if you're
39:23thinking to yourself, are you serious?
39:25I'm not going to do that. There's a
39:27trick. So, about an hour ago, I cut up
39:31some other cabbage. Same mixture, same
39:34amount, same salt, same careway.
39:37And what we can do is we can do the same
39:40thing. Toss it. And then it'll naturally
39:42pull the liquid out. So when I squeeze
39:45it now, hopefully you can see all of
39:47that moisture. That's what we need. So
39:50if you're on this stage and you are
39:53going to try the bashing, you bash and
39:54squeeze it until it looks like this.
39:59Okay. So that's ready to go in the jar.
40:02When we're seeing that much juice
40:03production from squeezing it, it's ready
40:05to go in the jar. So we have a clean
40:08mason jar here. We've got our smart
40:10funnel from Mason Top. And we're going
40:12to simply just start putting it in the
40:14jar. Very, very simple.
40:18Okay. Just like that.
40:23Okay. And then every so often when it
40:25starts filling up a bit, we're really
40:27trying to make sure there's no air
40:28pockets in here. This is where the
40:30tamper comes in handy. The wide side is
40:33for a widemouth jar. We're using a
40:34regular mouth today, so we're going to
40:35use the regular mouth side. And what we
40:38do is we compress it down.
40:42This drives any oxygen pockets to the
40:44top.
40:46And then we just keep filling. You'll be
40:48surprised how much cabbage you can get
40:50into one quart jar.
40:52So, right now, this is about This is 2
40:55lbs.
40:58So, we kind of keep filling it up,
41:00pushing it through the You don't need to
41:02use the funnel, but the funnel does make
41:04less of a mess. And if you ask my wife,
41:07in our household where we have six
41:08beautiful children and me, uh, having a
41:12little bit less mess is always a win.
41:16Okay, so there we go. We've stuffed it
41:19again. We're going to compress. And it's
41:22I hope you can see that, but as I press,
41:24we can see that brine coming to the top.
41:27This is really key, okay? Because we
41:30don't want any vegetables above the
41:32brine.
41:34the jar, like the space at the top of
41:36the jar is the really is sort of a
41:39really weak point or a concern for the
41:42first few days after fermentation starts
41:45or in the early stages of fermentation
41:48because there is some oxygen exposure,
41:52right?
41:53So, we're trying to create an anorobic
41:55environment. We don't want any
41:58vegetables hanging out at the top of the
42:00jar above the brine.
42:04So, I've almost got that full two pounds
42:06in there. So, I can see when I compress
42:09it down, the brine comes up over the
42:11vegetables, which is key. I think I'm
42:13going to put in just a bit more.
42:17And [snorts] of course, all that
42:19beautiful cabbage juice will pour on the
42:22top. Again, another reason why the
42:24funnel works great. You don't lose that
42:26precious brine or juice.
42:29Compress it down again.
42:32Then we're going to take our pickle
42:34pebble,
42:37press down in the jar like that.
42:41And we've got a perfect setup. Now
42:42there's we're looking for a minimum of
42:45an inch. Sometimes 2 in is good. It
42:47really depends on what you're
42:48fermenting. If it's higher in sugar, you
42:51might need to leave a little extra
42:52space, like beets for example, because
42:55fermentation will go crazy. So, if you
42:57notice there, I dump the brine back into
43:00the bowl of cabbage because just in case
43:02I make a mistake, I don't want to lose
43:03that brine.
43:06So, we push it down. Everything looks
43:08good. I've got about an inch and a
43:09quarter of space. We're going to grab a
43:12our clean rag here. And the next thing
43:14that's really important, because if
43:17you're wondering, that's pretty much it.
43:18Now, it's just going to be time. We are
43:20going to inspect our jar. Make sure that
43:23the inside of the jar from the top of
43:25the brine to the top of the jar doesn't
43:27have any sneaky vegetable bits hanging
43:30around
43:31because this is a really key part of the
43:34fermentation. The early stages the top
43:37of the brine to the top of the jar is
43:39oxygen. Soon it will be CO2 from the
43:42fermentation that occurs. And so when
43:44the CO2 fills that space, it becomes not
43:47neutral anymore. At the beginning it's
43:49very neutral. So, if you have vegetable
43:51pieces hanging up above the brine, they
43:53are prone to be affected by oxygen and
43:55sometimes you can get mold growth right
43:57out of the gate. But throughout the
43:59whole fermentation process, especially
44:01for the first few days, we're going to
44:04take the top off and make sure that
44:06nothing is pushed up or floated up
44:08because we will get some gas formation.
44:11It will push up. The cabbage will push
44:13up because of the gas. And then it will
44:15also bubble some vegetables. So, we do
44:17want to inspect it. Make sure there's
44:19nothing in there. Then, we simply put
44:21our pickle pipe on top. And I like to
44:24thread the canning ring on there and not
44:28put it on super tight because if a lot
44:30of gas forms, this will actually bulge
44:32and it'll spray up and hit your ceiling
44:35if you're not watching it right now. We
44:37move this jar ideally to a dark
44:41consistent temperature like spot that
44:43has consistent temperature. So, not
44:44necessarily on top of your fridge or
44:46beside your oven. Fast fermentation or
44:49fermentation at a higher heat always
44:51produces less unique flavors and
44:54sometimes can mess with your texture as
44:56well. So, that's how you make
44:59traditional German sauerkraut. Now, this
45:02is going to be checked on for the first
45:04couple days. And after about a week of
45:08checking on it and seeing how it's
45:09doing, you will observe a lot of
45:11changes, which is the fun part. It's
45:13going to make you better at
45:14fermentation, watching what happens,
45:16what occurs, uh, observing those
45:19changes. And then after about a week, I
45:21will start trying it. And at that point,
45:23you can go right up to 3, four weeks,
45:26you will start losing some texture, and
45:28you'll get a stronger sour flavor. It
45:30really becomes about what your
45:31preference is. So, yeah, that's um
45:35that's all I got. This is your
45:36traditional German sauerkraut. And I'd
45:39be happy to uh answer any questions at
45:42this point, but also I really,
45:45shameless plug would really appreciate
45:47if you are keen about this, passionate,
45:50you want to connect, please connect with
45:51us, uh follow us on Facebook and
45:54Instagram as we're trying to really
45:55change the face of fermentation and food
45:57preservation in Canada.
46:01Thank you.
46:07Thanks, Connor. I you can definitely
46:10feel your passion every time you speak
46:12about this and I I love to see it and I
46:15you shared so much great information and
46:17really demystified the process for us.
46:19So, I appreciate that. So many good
46:21tips. I saw lots of people thanking you
46:23in the chat for all the great tips. Um
46:26but now let's bring Carla back in and uh
46:29open it up to um some questions. And I
46:33know I'll maybe start off with one. Uh I
46:35know you talked a little bit um
46:39chef about storing your ferment
46:41afterwards. Um but then did I hear I'm
46:44wasn't sure if I heard how long the
46:47ferment would maybe stay good um for
46:50people to continue to eat.
46:53>> Yeah, it's a good question. It's a
46:54common question, too. I mean, it really
46:56becomes about preference. I mean, as the
46:59ferment is in the fridge for longer
47:01periods, fermentation still occurs just
47:03at a lower temperature. So, what we find
47:06is depending on what the fermented item
47:09is, like for example,
47:11these this last precious jar of our
47:14fermented cuces, which our kids are keen
47:17to eat, which I was telling them after
47:19this, we can crack into the last jar. We
47:21made this in August. What we're seeing
47:24now at this point of all the fridge
47:26storage is we're seeing a little loss in
47:28texture, but the flavor is still good,
47:30right? So, it's not as if they go bad.
47:33Of course, you can get mold growth like
47:34anything in a fridge,
47:36>> but it becomes more about a texture
47:38thing and how sour it becomes or if it
47:41becomes almost too aggressive with
47:43sourness. So, but a good guideline I
47:47would say like four to six months. Yeah.
47:50>> Okay, that's great. Thank you. Um, let's
47:53look at some of the uh questions we have
47:55in chat here. And I think this one is
47:57for you, Carla. Um, for Melena, she just
48:00wanted to clarify
48:03um for the health claim to be put on
48:06yogurt, it can it can be placed on any
48:09yogurt as all yogurt is fermented, the
48:13yogurt does not need to contain live
48:15microbes or probiotics in it. Is that
48:18correct?
48:19>> No, not completely. So that's a great
48:21question. So the the qualified health
48:24claim was put to any yogurt. So it was
48:28basically on any yogurt made with um
48:32with the typical microbes that you use
48:34to make yogurt. Um
48:36and it does need to contain the life
48:39microbes on them. But then it it is not
48:42associated to specific probiotics
48:44because nowadays a lot of yogurts they
48:46get extra microbes on them or some of
48:48them. Yeah. probiotics that might confer
48:51extra benefits. Um, some yogurt might
48:54have almost non like they're they're
48:58they used to contain microbes but they
49:01you know now those microbes are gone.
49:02So, but in general every y most yogurts
49:05you buy at the grocery store would would
49:07qualify for for those for those health
49:09claims. Yeah.
49:11>> Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. Um, we
49:15have one from Carol. I am assuming that
49:17fermentation is fluid for all vegetables
49:21depending under what conditions they are
49:24grown. So I think um she's asking can
49:27you ferment all different kinds of
49:29vegetables?
49:31>> Yeah, I'm assuming that question is for
49:33me. Yeah, I I
49:36>> there are some vegetables that don't
49:37ferment as well as others. Like no no
49:40vegetables created equal. Like an
49:41example of that would be like okra
49:43doesn't ferment great. Um but generally
49:47speaking, yeah, like you can even
49:48ferment starchy vegetables. The thing is
49:52you need to be aware of what the sugar
49:54level and sugar in the form of like
49:56natural sugar or starch is because
49:59anytime the microbes have more food
50:01available to them easier. Fermentation
50:04is going to go from something that's
50:06predictable and more standard, like if
50:09you were going to just ferment some
50:10cabbage, versus you're going to ferment
50:13um carrots and beets together, that
50:16ferment is going to go different on the
50:19same countertop in the same ambient
50:21temperature than than the cabbage. Like,
50:25you know what I'm saying? like they
50:26because there's more sugar available,
50:28the ferment may uh pick up pace and
50:32might ferment faster. Um it's a big
50:36question, but generally speaking, uh you
50:37know, I've got these tomatoes here and
50:39they ferment quite quickly also because
50:41they're higher in sugar than say, you
50:43know, cabbage, right? So, generally,
50:46yes. And I guess that's the fun part um
50:50is kind of figuring out what your
50:52favorite thing to ferment is. So far,
50:54out of all the things I've fermented, my
50:57number one favorite has been wild leaks,
50:59which I just love, love, love. It is so
51:02delicious. Because another thing we
51:04don't, we're not going to talk about too
51:06much today, but if we're talking about
51:07like, for example, the brine from these
51:10honey mushrooms, this brine is liquid
51:12gold. Any of the fermented brines, a are
51:15packed with lots of live microbes. uh
51:18it's a seasoned liquid, but it also has
51:21very unique flavors that you can't
51:23really recreate. Again, as I mentioned
51:25as a chef, so the liquids themselves can
51:28be utilized in different cooking
51:30applications. So like when I we
51:33fermented rhubarb, I thought it was
51:35really great. The kids really didn't
51:36like it at all, but that liquid again um
51:39was really delicious. And then we ended
51:41up freeze drying the rhubarb and made a
51:44powder out of it.
51:46experimenting with different vegetables
51:48is a lot is the is the fun part. Um but
51:51in short, you know, not all vegetables
51:53ferment the same.
51:56>> That's very interesting. So what other
51:58kinds of things have you done with the
51:59liquid?
52:00>> Um so you can use it as um like in a
52:03salad dressing or a vinegrett.
52:05>> Really good. I will add we made stir fry
52:08last night at home and I added some
52:11fermented leaks but also some of the
52:14liquid from the leaks right because it's
52:16got such an umami powerful
52:20uh you could you could sort of brine
52:22meats using the fermented liquid right
52:25when we brine meats we're doing a salt
52:28ratio you know dissolved in water so
52:31that's something you can use it in um
52:33you can use this the liquid itself to
52:36start a new ferment, right? So, say I
52:38wanted to take these honey mushrooms and
52:41it's got teragon in it. Tagon and tomato
52:43go really well. So, when I make that
52:45brine up, uh like which generally for a
52:48solid vegetable ferment is, uh salt
52:51dissolved in water to make your own
52:53brine, I could actually use some of the
52:54brine from the tomato
52:57in the new brine for this brand new
52:59ferment. And what that would do is it
53:01makes it a safer ferment because it's
53:03already acidic.
53:04>> Mh. and you're getting that beautiful
53:06tomato flavor, right? So, what we've
53:09experienced in food preservation in
53:11general is one always leads to the next,
53:14right? So, you could use, you know, uh,
53:18so when I said I freeze-dried the
53:19rhubarb, now we've got a rhubarb powder
53:22that's salty, then we can use that as a
53:24seasoning. So, they're all connected.
53:28>> That's great.
53:30Um, another question here we have, if
53:32you don't have one of the pickle pebbles
53:34that you were demonstrating, um, is
53:36there something else that you could use
53:37like a regular jar lid or
53:41>> Yeah, I mean, you can use a cabbage
53:43core. So, you could take that core,
53:45which I've thrown in the garbage now,
53:46but and you use it to wedge into the jar
53:50and like if you if you wedge the
53:52vegetables down under the neck, that
53:54will hold them down. Um, some people use
53:57stones. just you take a stone out of
53:59your garden, wash it thoroughly, you
54:02know, scrub it really good, and then you
54:04actually use a stone. Um, yeah, there's
54:07other things you can do. Now, if you're,
54:10you know, you want to try it out first,
54:12that's something that you could do short
54:13term, but I'm telling you with with the
54:18uh the pebbles themselves just do such a
54:20good job holding everything down. And it
54:22takes a little bit of the um not risk,
54:26but just the wondering if your fervent's
54:28doing well out of picture when you're at
54:31home or you're in your busy life, you
54:33can't check it uh every day or you
54:35forget. The weight does a good job
54:37keeping those vegetables down. Okay,
54:39those are good tips. Um, you had
54:41mentioned uh a discount code and a few
54:44people have asked if you could repeat
54:45how that might be sent out in the
54:48future. I think you said people signed
54:49up for your newsletter.
54:51>> Yeah, the newsletter or if you if you
54:53follow us on uh Facebook or Instagram or
54:57if you've done that and you haven't
54:59heard from us, you can just send us a
55:00message. We're really responsive. We'll
55:01definitely send the discount code to you
55:03that way.
55:04>> Okay. And I know in some of the videos
55:06that you did with the fermented food
55:08initiatives um that are up on YouTube
55:11and I think Angela's going to share the
55:12link that you had mentioned about using
55:14the the uh cabbage the knob from the
55:17cabbage as yep
55:19>> as one as well. Um we have a question
55:22from Linda. Is it typical for sauerkraut
55:24to bubble over? She hers does quite
55:27frequently.
55:28>> Yeah 100%. Um, again, if you, you know,
55:33once you get some more experience with
55:34just traditional sauerkraut, what we
55:37really like doing is doing what's called
55:38like a mixed vegetable ferment. So, if
55:41you start, again, like I mentioned,
55:42adding different vegetables, that can
55:44cause that. Sometimes if you don't leave
55:45enough head space at the top, that
55:47expansion is so severe that it will
55:50actually um come right out. So even as I
55:54mentioned if we don't thread this
55:55canning lid on super tight that's on
55:58purpose so that gas can escape this way
56:00and also from the air lock right so if
56:04you are leaving too little space at the
56:07top that's where we see overflowing of
56:09brine which is not optimal just because
56:12then we lose brine and then as the gas
56:14formation slows it expands back down
56:17this way and then you've got this big
56:19gap at the top right so it's it's if
56:21that's happening a lot I would try
56:23leaving a little more head space at the
56:26top so there's more room for expansion.
56:29>> Okay, that's great. Uh, a couple of
56:32questions for you, uh, Dr. Carla. Um,
56:36back to yogurt, uh, would homemade
56:38yogurt have the same cultures as the
56:41storebought and is and related to that
56:44is making your own health? Yeah, sorry.
56:48I think there's some background noise
56:50right now, but I don't know if you can
56:51hear, but um so yeah, so in terms of the
56:56culture, so typically in a to make
56:59yogurt, you would use um if you make
57:02yogurt at home, you can make it based of
57:04another yogurt that you have at the
57:06store. So you just may mix a spoonful of
57:08yogurt with like milk that you have
57:10boiled. Anyways, it's a it's a pretty
57:12simple process. I actually made it make
57:14it at home, too. Um, so you would be
57:18having the same microbes that that that
57:20yogurt that you bought had or you could
57:22just buy the the culture um too and
57:26start that. But um typically they'll
57:30they'll be the same uh starting culture
57:32which would be like that bifidtoacterium
57:35and lactobacillus types of bacteria. Um,
57:39but then in the stores there's going to
57:42be some yogurts that will have those
57:43other added microbes that are like some
57:47probiotics. Um, then there's also what
57:50the risk you have with buying like I
57:52like now making my own because I control
57:54what I have on the yogurt, right? So you
57:56know what's on it. You're not adding
57:57like emulsifiers and other chemicals or
58:00sugars and things. So um
58:03um yeah. So I I think that kind of
58:07answers the questions I saw on yogurt
58:09there. Yeah.
58:10>> Yeah. No, that that's great. Um
58:13Chef, back over to you. We have a
58:16question um which I think is always
58:18confusing. So um does fermenting always
58:22mean no vinegar? I think that's the
58:24difference between pickling and
58:26fermenting and if you could kind of
58:27explain that.
58:29>> No. Uh no, definitely not. I would say
58:32both. And and as we uh talk about in the
58:34Canadian fermented foods initiative that
58:36vinegar itself is a fermented product,
58:38right? So technically when you're eating
58:40pickles, you're eating a fermented
58:41product, but uh often we teach people
58:44especially with a large uh batch
58:47ferment. So, if you're going to do a
58:48full croc of cuces or even sauerkraut to
58:52negate some of the problems that can
58:56occur during a ferment, I was trained to
58:59actually add some vinegar into the
59:01mixture. Right? So, when you're making
59:02your brine, you can either add vinegar
59:04to your brine or you can add it at the
59:07top. It's mo it's I don't know if it's
59:09official, but for me, I like to add it
59:11at the top. I don't know if it's a wives
59:13tail type thing, but I just feel like
59:16adding it to the top, again, the top
59:17being the riskiest part of the ferment,
59:20>> it acidifies the top. But anytime we're
59:23acidifying a new ferment, we are giving
59:26lactic acid bacteria what it wants. It
59:28wants to create acid. So, we're picking
59:30up the pace of fermentation slightly.
59:33So, we're sending the microbes in the
59:35right direction by adding vinegar. So,
59:37it's never a bad thing to add vinegar,
59:39but if you're going to add, you know,
59:41you're not going to make any brine and
59:43just pour vinegar into a jar, that's
59:45technically pickling, right?
59:46>> Okay. So, not necessary, but uh
59:49something you could do to speed up the
59:51ferment. And
59:51>> say you make a ferment and and you've
59:53smashed the cabbage to all get out and
59:56you still don't have enough juice, but
59:57you're just a little low. Topping it up
1:00:01uh with some vinegar is fine. It's the
1:00:03same thing in canning. So, you know,
1:00:05you're on that last jar and you don't
1:00:07have enough brine. We've all been there
1:00:08if we've canned. And then you're
1:00:10thinking, "Do I have to make a whole
1:00:11other brine for this last jar?" We teach
1:00:14just top that last jar up with some
1:00:16vinegar. Anytime that we're adding more
1:00:18acidity, we're not taking any risks.
1:00:22>> Okay. No, that sounds good. We're We're
1:00:24basically at time, but I think we'll uh
1:00:26go for another five minutes here because
1:00:29there's lots of uh great questions
1:00:31still. Um
1:00:33>> Sorry, Dorothy. Can I add something into
1:00:35the distinction of pickling? And so in
1:00:38terms of the health benefits, as I said,
1:00:40when we think about the benefits of
1:00:41fermented foods, there's the microbes uh
1:00:44part of it and then there's the food
1:00:46transformation. So if when you think of
1:00:48just pickled foods, so that they're not
1:00:50fermented. So pickle, you know, pickles
1:00:53um there's just vinegar on them. um
1:00:55because they have vinegar which is a
1:00:57fermented food but it doesn't contain
1:00:58microbes. It still has some benefits as
1:01:01opposed to just eating c cucumber or
1:01:04whatever but um but if you want to have
1:01:06that added benefit of the microbes then
1:01:08maybe you prefer to choose one that is
1:01:10fermented. So that's the that's the
1:01:12distinction. Um
1:01:13>> that's very very good point.
1:01:17>> Um Angela asks can you repeat the part
1:01:21about myth one safety? I missed that
1:01:24part. and how do you know if it's not
1:01:26safe? Uh, and she appreciated your demo
1:01:30so much. So, I think just that myth
1:01:31about
1:01:32>> Yeah,
1:01:33>> I think that's something that I think
1:01:34always worries people is that food
1:01:36safety part of it and how do you
1:01:38>> Yeah, if we look survey for the Canadian
1:01:42fermented foods initiative asking
1:01:44Canadians, is it safe? I think it was
1:01:47404 something, right? So, we see that
1:01:49there's a lot of people that are a
1:01:50little iffy about this. And when we
1:01:52teach adult classes, I always poll
1:01:54people, hey, who's a little worried
1:01:56about eating their own ferment? And most
1:01:57people put their hands up, right? So,
1:02:01when I brought that point up, um the
1:02:04main thing is you will the ferment
1:02:07itself will show you if it's gone bad,
1:02:09right? When we talk about botulism,
1:02:11remember botulism can only kind of grow
1:02:14in non acidic environments. So we can
1:02:16take that worry right out because we are
1:02:19going to have an acidic environment. So
1:02:21other things that can go bad is
1:02:23generally mold growth and that will be
1:02:25completely visual to you. You will see
1:02:27it at the top of your ferment. If at
1:02:30that point you see blue mold, black
1:02:32mold, red mold in there, greenish mold,
1:02:35it's game over. You can do what you
1:02:38want. Follow the Tik Tok advice and
1:02:40scoop it off and hope it goes well. But
1:02:42if that happens to one of my ferments, I
1:02:44just toss it out and it's a loss, right?
1:02:46It doesn't occur that often. So to
1:02:50answer your question specifically, you
1:02:53will see the top of your ferment
1:02:55something looks ary and it will be fuzzy
1:02:59and mold and that's game over. Other
1:03:02than that occurring, you know, um a lot
1:03:05of people say like, well, my brine's
1:03:07cloudy. That's a good sign. We want our
1:03:10brine to be cloudy. Okay, that's normal
1:03:12milky as it's sometimes to.
1:03:15>> If at any point the top of your ferment
1:03:17gets mold, it's game over. The only
1:03:19thing that is a little confusing is you
1:03:21can have cam yeast occur on the top
1:03:24which is not a mold but kind of
1:03:27masquerades as one and it's just a white
1:03:30kind of beautiful almost looks like a
1:03:33painting or you know if we look at a
1:03:35desert like wind structures in the sand.
1:03:38It looks like that, but it actually is
1:03:41safe to consume. Although, I don't know
1:03:43many people that are looking to eat cam
1:03:45yeast off the top of their ferment. If
1:03:47that white film occurs on the top, what
1:03:50we do is we spoon it off and then wipe
1:03:53the jar. And sometimes it will come back
1:03:55endlessly and sometimes it won't. But
1:03:58the key is that white film that is not
1:04:01fuzzy like mold is safe to eat, but it
1:04:04can affect the flavor of your ferment,
1:04:06the texture of your ferment, and it can
1:04:08be pesky. And sometimes it occurs for no
1:04:11rhyme or reason. You know, like you
1:04:13could make the kraut how I just showed
1:04:15you, you followed everything, you had
1:04:17clean hands, clean equipment, and it
1:04:19turns out perfectly, and the next time
1:04:20you make it, it occurs. So, it's just
1:04:22one of those things where what's
1:04:24happening in the jar on the microb
1:04:26biological level is what fascinates me.
1:04:29And there can be slight changes, a
1:04:32different cabbage, different field,
1:04:33what's occurring in the soil, something
1:04:36it's just without being a doctor and a
1:04:38microbiologist and having a good
1:04:40microscope, we can't really tell what's
1:04:42going on.
1:04:44>> No, that's very helpful. Well, do you
1:04:45happen to have any of uh pictures of
1:04:47that yeast that could be shared through
1:04:49the uh
1:04:50>> but uh we could share that on our social
1:04:52media if
1:04:53>> I think that would be very interesting.
1:04:56>> Um we will do one more question.
1:05:00>> If you if you just Google Cam East
1:05:01yeast, you'll get a thousand pictures
1:05:03and it all looks pretty much the same.
1:05:06Um it's quite beautiful actually.
1:05:10>> Um let's do one more question here. Um,
1:05:13there's Nadine and it's a two-parter.
1:05:15She she wanted to uh or she's asking how
1:05:18long do you ferment and how do how long
1:05:21do you ferment before changing the lid
1:05:23to a regular canning lid for storing?
1:05:26Um, and she says, "Thanks, chef. Great
1:05:28presentation and simplifying the
1:05:30process." And then there's a second part
1:05:31for you, uh, Dr. Lefonte. Um, but
1:05:35Connor, do you want to answer? Chef, can
1:05:37you answer that first?
1:05:39>> Yeah. So, we don't remove the um
1:05:42fermentation top, whether it's a mason
1:05:44top or an off-brand or a different style
1:05:46until fermentation is done. Right? So,
1:05:49what we do at that point, especially if
1:05:51it's going into the fridge, is we remove
1:05:54the pipe and the pebble. Uh we give the
1:05:57jar a clean and then if you can hold
1:05:59back and not eat it all within a day,
1:06:02you you're then going to put a snap lid,
1:06:03like a canning lid on top and thread it
1:06:06on there. If you leave that jar in the
1:06:09fridge for too long without eating it,
1:06:11you know, because fermentation's still
1:06:13occurring, you could have some gas
1:06:14buildup and when you open it, it will uh
1:06:17like hiss at you a little bit, right?
1:06:18It's not bad. It just it's fermenting,
1:06:21right? So, I think that answers it. But
1:06:23yeah, almost immediately like when you
1:06:25taste your ferment and you're happy with
1:06:27the flavor, I would say a minimum one
1:06:29week and you've tasted it and you like
1:06:31the sourness and you like the texture,
1:06:34>> pickle pipe comes off, the pebble comes
1:06:36out, we wipe the top of the jar, put our
1:06:38regular canning lid on or Mason Top
1:06:40sells some really cool um lids that
1:06:42don't have the two-piece, so it's a lot
1:06:44better for storage and stuff and it's
1:06:46food grade and all that. Um you can then
1:06:49put that on and put it in the fridge
1:06:50until you eat it. And if you're eating
1:06:52from it regularly, you're not going to
1:06:54notice that gas buildup. It's when you
1:06:55leave it for longer periods sealed that
1:06:58you'll have that bulging of the canning
1:07:00lid.
1:07:02>> Yeah, that's great. Okay. And the second
1:07:04part of the question, um, is there a
1:07:07website where they can follow your work,
1:07:09Dr. Lefonte?
1:07:10>> So, I think, uh, you mean so besides the
1:07:14fermented foods initiative website,
1:07:16which you can see here, fermented
1:07:18foods.ca, say I don't have a place for
1:07:20myself but like um as a researcher um
1:07:23I've contributed to the literature on
1:07:25different publications my background was
1:07:28more on on the biology of depression so
1:07:32we have some studies on that but uh
1:07:35connecting food um and fermented foods
1:07:37with mental health per se I don't have
1:07:39any studies yet but uh through the
1:07:42initiative we're going to try to see um
1:07:45what uh what studies can we do can we be
1:07:48doing. We might not be focusing on on
1:07:50those mental health um outcomes. Uh
1:07:53right now we might be focusing more on
1:07:55metabolic uh conditions and all that,
1:07:58but any new studies we do um we're going
1:08:01to be publishing them through through
1:08:03the initiatives website. So you can find
1:08:05there. But there's a lot of a lot of uh
1:08:08groups uh studying that and it's a very
1:08:11exciting field. Um, so yeah, and feel
1:08:15free to ask any questions and there's a
1:08:18contact form through the website. So if
1:08:19you want to learn more, I can point you
1:08:21into some studies um to learn more about
1:08:24this.
1:08:25>> Yeah, that sounds great. Definitely so
1:08:27much interest. Uh maybe we're going to
1:08:29have to have a a second uh fermentation
1:08:32uh webinar here. Um we're not going to
1:08:35get to all the questions today, which I
1:08:37apologize. Um, but I did want to say I
1:08:40do see in the chat that there's uh
1:08:43somebody from Prince Edward uh Island
1:08:45who's part of the Women's Institute,
1:08:47which is near and dear to my heart. Um,
1:08:49and that they're interested in uh doing
1:08:52some more work on fermentation. So,
1:08:53we'll definitely connect uh you guys to
1:08:56to Jennifer there and get that going on.
1:08:59Um, we'll also look through the rest of
1:09:01the questions and if we can send out any
1:09:03answers, we'll we'll do that. But um now
1:09:07I'd just like to to thank everybody for
1:09:09for sharing with us today and being on
1:09:11the line. Uh we've had people from
1:09:13across Canada join us and even some of
1:09:16uh Dr. Lefonte's um family in Spain. So
1:09:19that's exciting. Um thank you Carla and
1:09:22Connor for sharing with us today. It was
1:09:24so interesting. Thank you uh to Penny
1:09:27and Angela from our team for making the
1:09:29webinar happen. and to the Canadian
1:09:32Fermentation Food Initiative and
1:09:34Preserving Chef. Um, you know,
1:09:36definitely go and check out their
1:09:38websites and I know Connor's offering
1:09:40classes. He's also very generously as
1:09:42part of this uh everybody who watched
1:09:45will be put uh their name will be put
1:09:47into uh potentially win a free
1:09:50fermentation class um by the preserving
1:09:53chefs. So, uh we're going to send that
1:09:56out in a follow-up uh email. So, when
1:09:59you see that, hopefully your name's the
1:10:00one that is uh cho chosen. Uh don't
1:10:04forget to sign up for our newsletters
1:10:05and follow us on social media. And if
1:10:07you have any questions or ideas for
1:10:09other articles and webinars, let us
1:10:11know. And uh thanks again everyone. And
1:10:14now, let's go out and start fermenting.
1:10:17>> Thank you so much.
1:10:18>> Thanks. Yeah, take care.

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