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Ben Shapiro vs Transgender Reporter Zoey Tur in Heated Caitlyn Jenner Debate on HLN Dr. Drew [FULL] — Transcript

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0:00Kaitlyn Caitlyn Jenner honored with the
0:02Arthur Ash courage award at the SBS did
0:05she deserve it was it the right choice
0:07here she was last night on ABC take a
0:09look all across the world at this very
0:12moment there are young people coming to
0:15terms with being
0:17transgender they're learning that
0:18they're different and they're trying to
0:21figure out how to handle that on top of
0:24every other problem that a teenager has
0:27they're getting bullied they're getting
0:29beaten
0:30up they're getting
0:32murdered and they're committing
0:35suicide but this transition has been
0:37harder on me than anything I could
0:40imagine and that's the case for so many
0:43others besides me for that reason alone
0:47trans people deserve something vital
0:51they deserve your
0:54respect I'd like to thank
0:57personally my buddy Diane s
1:01you
1:01[Applause]
1:03know you can only tell your story the
1:05first time once and Diane you did it so
1:09authentically and so
1:11gracefully joining me now in the
1:13audience shagun Adu Olu entertainment
1:15journalist Zoe tur pilot and reporter
1:18who herself is transgender and Ben
1:20Shapiro senior editor breit Bart news
1:22author of bullies Ben did she deserve
1:25this award for
1:26what for courageously coming forward for
1:29having been been an athlete of great
1:31prowess and now fighting a new battle uh
1:34what exactly is the battle I mean
1:35self-de is what you do and my baby's
1:38doing it 18 months old I wasn't aware
1:39that you get a medal for it she good I
1:42think she's a fraud I thought the
1:43message and the messenger were were
1:45wrong I was in the audience at the esbs
1:48and if you want to talk about courage
1:49she said it herself in Her speech that
1:51she retreated to her mansion on on in
1:53the hill and was where was she in the
1:5670s when G when the LGBT community was
1:58fighting for acceptance where was she in
1:59the 80s when the AIDS epidemic was
2:01ravaging the L was hiding feeling bad
2:02about where was she in the 90s when she
2:05was like 90210 place and Will and Grace
2:08were bringing people gay people to the
2:09Forefront where was she in
2:112000s my thing is this she's a she's a
2:1465-year-old rich white woman that
2:15decided to do this but don't tell me
2:17you're walking in the truth for other
2:18transgender kids kids of color who don't
2:21have that war chest of money to get the
2:23surgery to look like she looks they're
2:25not going to get the cover of Vanity
2:26Fair so don't tell me that she is going
2:28to stand on the banks waving her hand as
2:30the beacon for transgender when there's
2:32a river of blood of people that die okay
2:34regardless of who the messenger is okay
2:37whether you like it or her not or think
2:39that this is an authentic person or not
2:41or her her intent she is bringing a
2:43conversation to the Forefront that is
2:46helping people better understand not you
2:48unfortunately better understand the
2:50transgender Community have more empathy
2:52have more tolerance and that is Saving
2:55Lives because as she stated there are so
2:57many transgender youths and adults that
2:59are are victims of vience that are beat
3:02up that are bullied because of the
3:04Discrimination so thank God that now she
3:07is main streaming it so people can
3:09better understand it and have tolerance
3:12Sam Sam that's dead
3:13wrong she lives in she lives in the most
3:16accepting City in the in in in the state
3:18go do that in Alabama be a hero be a her
3:22Listen to listen to Zoe listen Zoe go
3:24ahead good try you have to bifurcate it
3:28did she deserve the onor probably not is
3:32she Brave of course she's Brave all
3:34those years invested as is this sports
3:36legend to come out transgender is
3:39horribly difficult it is the most
3:42difficult thing you can do I've been
3:43overseas I've flown helicopter missions
3:46surveillance missions I've been shot
3:47stabbed being brave is being yourself
3:50and being transgender is it's about the
3:52bravest thing you can do did she deserve
3:55the award yes why are we mainstreaming
3:58delusion it's not delusion why would you
4:00call it delusion because Bruce Caitlyn
4:02Jenner I'll call him Caitlyn Jenner
4:04because it's her you're not being polite
4:06to the pronoun disrespect okay forget
4:08about the disrespect facts don't care
4:10about your feelings it turns out that
4:11every chromosome every cell in Caitlyn
4:14Jenner's body is male with the exception
4:16of some of his sperm cells it turns out
4:19that it turns out that he still has all
4:21of his male appendages how he feels on
4:23the inside is relevant to the question
4:24of his biological side I'm I don't agree
4:26with that I'm not on that train I'm not
4:28on that train
4:30she wants to be called she I'm going to
4:31call her she I just have a problem with
4:33the message and the messenger well let's
4:36let's let's I'm going to do two things I
4:37want to reiterate what Zoe said which is
4:39the bifurcation of the courage to come
4:42forward after a lifetime as a male and a
4:44certain kind of a male versus did she
4:47deserve this award listen the awards
4:49what are award ceremonies except an
4:50opportunity to catch some eyes
4:52especially the yeah ESPN well well done
4:55ABC they did exactly what their job was
4:57attracted eyes they did it that's what
4:59award ceremonies are for but in terms of
5:02the science behind gender uh dysphoria
5:05you you're very familiar with that so
5:06very familiar it's not about the
5:08chromosome excuse me the chromosomes
5:10within our nucle chromosomes don't
5:12necessarily mean you're male or female
5:15gender with gender gender identity go
5:17ahead so especi but but even so you have
5:20a thing like kleinfelter's syndrome so
5:23you don't know what you're talking about
5:25you're not educated on genetics to
5:26discuss the genetics or your genetics I
5:29so i' stay away from the genetics and
5:31back to the brain scans you cut that out
5:33now or you'll go home in an ambulance
5:36yeah that seems mildly inappropriate for
5:37a political discussion no I know well
5:40wait to be fair but to be fa wait but to
5:42be fair but to be fair you're actually
5:44being
5:45rude and that's not fair I'm sorry it's
5:47not rude to say that someone who's
5:49biologically a male is a male someone
5:52who's biologically male is a male but Mr
5:54Shapiro you know you knew very well that
5:56saying that to Zoe would be would be
5:59egregiously it's not a matter of
6:00insulting or
6:04inflammatory you're right on on the on
6:07paper what is a fact is a fact and I I
6:09can't deny that but you knew that going
6:11in that that to saying that to Zoe would
6:12be aggressively insulting of
6:15aggressively insult the entire
6:16discussion is whether we are embracing
6:18mental illness and delusion as a society
6:20that's the entire
6:22discussion but that's you're avoiding
6:24the fact you're avoiding the fact if you
6:25want to talk facts you're avoiding the
6:26fact you're not a dumb man you knew that
6:28saying that to Zoe would be incredible
6:31stop it roll on the last word here you
6:32have't had a chance and then you know
6:33there some there are some very startling
6:35statistics that are out that say that
6:3780% of us know somebody who's gay or or
6:41or or bisexual or even transvesti or
6:44lesbian but only 1% of us know somebody
6:47who is in transition so this is a new
6:50discussion for us a lot of it is very
6:52scary for a lot of people but that's I
6:55think whether we agree with the whole
6:57Caitlyn transition or not the reality is
7:00that we are in a state as human right
7:02now where we need to exercise a little
7:04bit more tolerance we need to understand
7:07the things that we don't understand a
7:08bit more instead of making inflammatory
7:11comments maybe we have a little bit more
7:12tolerant that's what I think we'll keep
7:15this going we'll keep it going but later
7:16we're going to no no aggression no
7:19violence we're going to we're g to we're
7:21going to Caitlyn Jenner she was honored
7:22with the Arthur Ash courage award last
7:24night at the esps there's speculation
7:26that the award was payback for having
7:28given Diane s her first interview with
7:31Jenner on ABC and ASN are part of the
7:33same Corporation of course the Disney
7:35family and ABC tells Los Angeles Times
7:37quote there is absolutely no connection
7:39between the interview and the award
7:41there's simply no truth to that claim
7:44back with Sam Randa and Mike and in the
7:46audience shagun Zoe and Ben all right so
7:49Zoe you're in that piece you're saying
7:52it wasn't a transgender going at their
7:53own pace it was a product roll out what
7:56are the liabilities to the human being
7:59Caitlyn Jenner as a result of being a
8:01part of this product roll out well you
8:04can't sustain that type of energy you
8:05cannot sustain that type of Fame things
8:09shift you have to reinvent yourself but
8:11I think at some point this comes
8:13crashing down because along with all
8:16this you know agulation and hype
8:19eventually you you find out that you
8:22you're really in an existential crisis
8:24because what's my life really going to
8:25be like will it be you have to deal with
8:28people like this the hatred
8:30the people that you know that that come
8:31out against you and and say we calling
8:34you delusional it wasn't hat that's
8:36hatred this is just somebody that's
8:38that's I don't hate you I have sympathy
8:40for you I feel terrible for you no no
8:41you do hate you're consumed with hatred
8:44that is who you are you're a little man
8:46you're a little man yeah actually do
8:49let's stick to the topic let's let's not
8:50let's not these first but I mean that's
8:52okay he can be whatever he wants but the
8:54point is right that's what this is all
8:56about isn't it it is it is and but
8:59there's Ram ifications for hate speech
9:01but the point is ifications let me
9:03finish go ahead finish zo little boy Zoe
9:07okay
9:08Zoe everybody buttons are being pushed
9:12go ahead the whole point is that Jenner
9:15will this will come crashing down okay
9:18well like like in other reality shows my
9:19I saw a Facebook post where there was 30
9:21reality shows that contestants or
9:23participants who had died within a year
9:24or two of their of their shows and I was
9:27looking I was scrolling through that on
9:28Facebook s like 85% of them was suicide
9:31right incredible it's it's like kind of
9:33becoming the quarterback before you've
9:35ever even played football yeah um
9:36there's a there's a a definite kind of
9:39buildup to getting that type of
9:41attention and now this too in the face
9:43of all these mag these tremendous
9:45changes and who this person is and their
9:46life and their lifa their family issues
9:48all that is sort of now around this
9:50arousal of the I Caitlyn's built for it
9:52I really do this is a let's not forget
9:54this is a worldclass athlete who's dealt
9:55with pressure her entire life who knows
9:58how to speak to herself and pump herself
10:00up who who pump herself up who knows the
10:02difference between persever perseverance
10:04more than any other person that's a
10:06non-athlete I think that this is her
10:07mission in life and if I could ask you
10:09because I'm still harping on some of the
10:11things that you mentioned earlier to to
10:13Ben you uh you come from like in your
10:15mind a moralist right you I come from a
10:18basic biological reality but okay it's
10:21not a moral thing if if somebody wants
10:22to mutilate their body that's their
10:24choice it's not mutilation but can we
10:25just talk about cutting off testicles is
10:28mutilation that's not actually what they
10:30do though right not typic they go in
10:32inside out well but they most
10:34transgender don't have the general
10:36reassignment most of them are not can I
10:38finish real quick because this is
10:39important I want I want to let you
10:41piggyback on something may I let you do
10:42that because yes you may because I'm but
10:44my blood is B I know and I'm going to
10:46give you a little more fuel this is now
10:48because he Ben Ben is part of a a lot of
10:50people that have various kinds of
10:51feelings about this is what's zo talking
10:53about here's Peter Berg best known for
10:55producing Friday Night Lights he posted
10:56this picture on Instagram with the
10:58caption quote one man traded two legs
11:01for the freedom of the other to trade
11:02two balls for two boobs yeah guess which
11:04man made the cover of Vanity Fair it was
11:06praised for his Courage by President
11:07Obama and is to be honored with the
11:09Arthur Ash courage award by ESPN that's
11:12similar stuff you're reting so first of
11:14all first of all of course a wounded
11:16soldier deserves all the Accolade and
11:17respect in the world they save lives
11:19well guess what there's many different
11:20ways to save lives I believe that
11:22Caitlyn Jenner bringing this
11:23conversation to the Forefront is saving
11:25lives and at the end of the day can you
11:26look at the fact that more than 50% of
11:29transgender youth attempt suicide
11:31because of discrimination because of
11:33Shame does that try to alter the way
11:36that you you how how how you should
11:38project your your thoughts what if
11:41they're watching right now what if there
11:42is a teen out watching right now that is
11:44struggling with who they are living
11:46their truth let's talk about some of the
11:47biological facts for one second no I
11:49want you to answer me what would you say
11:50to a team right now that that that
11:52really believes allow me to answer a
11:53question I I I I'm full of emotion right
11:56now because people die I've noticed
11:57clearly clearly you're it does doesn't
11:59bother you because you're sitting there
12:00Stone faac and cold heart of course it
12:03bothers me when people commit suicide
12:04which is one of the reasons I don't
12:05believe the transgender surgery is the
12:07solution considering that the suicide
12:09rate after transgender surgery is
12:10precisely the same as the suicide rate
12:12before trans because then technically
12:14they're not passing and then they're
12:15open for more discrimination the
12:17transgender suicide rate is
12:18approximately 08 in every 100 the only
12:21comparable suicide rate in human history
12:24of which I am aware is Jews living under
12:26Austrian and German rule during World
12:27War II to liken the treatment of
12:30transgenders in the United States or the
12:32Western World to Jews living under na no
12:34I'm actually comparing Apples to Apples
12:36in terms of the suicide but I think if
12:37you can see what what discrimination
12:41does why we actal
12:43Solutions stop hating tolerate it's not
12:45I'm happy to tolerate whatever people
12:47want to do is what they want to do but
12:48the idea that the surgery itself is
12:50something to be glorified to be re in
12:52the mental I think if you can I think if
12:55you can bring up the difficulty that
12:57Jewish people have faced because of
12:58hatred
12:59then why can't you as a human as Dr
13:02myangelo would say that I am human so
13:04therefore nothing human can be alien to
13:06me why can't you take that position and
13:09understand based upon your history I
13:10don't hate anybody who has a mental
13:12illness and is trying to figure out how
13:13to fix that what I well there might have
13:15I'm not going to liken the the
13:16treatments of Jews under Nazis treend I
13:20think anytime anytime of life is in
13:22trouble we're all in trouble you brought
13:24we all in trouble I brought that up is
13:25As a comparison of the treatments of the
13:27two and saying that the suicide rate is
13:29similar so therefore if the
13:30circumstances of the two are different
13:33the circumstances are may not be
13:35different if if you're have bullying if
13:36you have murders if you there is a
13:39genocide on transgender children right
13:42now you got I think we are I think we
13:44are we are going so far a field as all
13:47people we should be for inclusion as a
13:49black person and as a Jewish person who
13:51knows what persecution we should all be
13:54for inclusion no one is saying that we
13:55should not be for inclusion at least I'm
13:58not what I'm saying about this award is
14:00she does not Caitlyn Jenner does not
14:02walk in the shoes of those young
14:04transgender youth because they don't
14:05have the means that she has so when we
14:07say that she's how she was as a teenager
14:10and and you can and you cannot deny the
14:12fact that that she gave hope to somebody
14:14out there she get they may not have the
14:17$7,000 to have the they may not have a
14:20white down and get to walk away with got
14:22to wrap it there I got to wrap it there
14:23Ben let me just deal with your
14:24biological question mental illness
14:26question let let's say that transgender
14:28is
14:30illness how would you what's the goal of
14:31treatment then the goal of treatment
14:33would be to cure whatever can't cure it
14:35it's not curable okay lots of illnesses
14:37are not curable this one has to not be
14:38curable ALC alcoholism for instance what
14:41what's the goal so the the goal would be
14:42to allow people to live with it in in an
14:44appropriate way to flourish right flish
14:46not to require them to assigned to one
14:48gender or another to flourish without
14:51imposing on that without imposing on the
14:52rest of society a a a necessity for
14:55fictionalized thinking okay because that
14:57actually is a costy society sorry but my
14:59my grandfather was bipolar okay and he
15:01thought that the radio was talking to
15:03him they put him in a mental hospital
15:04they did not tell him the radio was
15:06talking to him to allow him to live a
15:07better life they put him to a mental
15:08hospital and then they gave him lithium
15:10which allowed him to live a better life
15:12looking for better Solutions than
15:13transgender surgery would be a better
15:15solution then pretending that surgery is
15:17the cure people are looking for
15:18treatments all the time this has been
15:20the one stopping the look no it really
15:22isn't but but be that as it may there's
15:23a book A P the movie called infinitely
15:25Polar Bear out there about by being
15:27bipolar and how they are ostracized to
15:29this day so

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